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Drug Testing For Olympic Chess Players?
Lawrence Person writes: "According to this AP wire story, they're thinking of adding chess as an Olympic sport. The downside? Mandatory drug testing. 'He's using steroids to move that pawn!'"
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Did anyone think that a chess tournament between 16 people could easily take longer than the olympics to complete? Either that, our you're going to have to tighten up the time rules...
Seriously, seing as they usually play multi-game matches, and I've heard of many matches over the course of, say, 8 hours or more, couldn't this stretch out??
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
i don't mean offense, but it seems really obvious you've neither 'thrown a metal ball' or 'ran down a track' in a seriously competitive way.
I would turn this right around and say that you've never been involved with or been a serious spectator in either competitive Quake 3 playing or a serious chess competition.
the people at the top of these fields practice many hours a day, through intense physical stress/injuries. the mental discipline it takes is absolutely incredible.
And Quake 3 players don't spend thousands of hours practicing and becoming experts at their game? Chess players often start their careers as young children to fully develop a brain that can make the leaps required for chess.
. and i wouldn't be shocked if there reflexes were far superior to most q3 players, as both of the activities you mentioned rely greatly on fast twitch muscle and body/eye coordination. if these people spent the same playing q3 as 99% of q3 players, they'd be better.
Wow that's quite a blanket assertion: The Quake 3 world is just waiting for the day that a 100m athletes comes over and wipes up the field. Sorry, but that is proposterous. There are millions of players who partake in computer gaming, and of those the best of the best of the best, with the best mental abilities (for the requirement) and the best reflexes, move to the top. This idea that "naturally superior" superhuman track and field athletes could be the best Q3 player if they only wanted to is absolutely, positively proposterous (no different than me claiming that the top Q3a player could be the fastest runner and the longest jumper if only that's what he wanted to do). Let me guess: a baseball player would automatically make a great chess player?
Umm, you guys do know that Ritalin causes brain atrophy, right...?
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
Dr. Jacques Rogge, the new president want to reduce the number of events not increase them.
Rogge said the IOC plans to study how to scale down future Olympic games, and it hopes to bring it down to the level of the Atlanta games. The tentative plan is to reduce the number of events spread between the 28 sports.
In particular, they advise limiting oneself to 4 cups of coffee over a 6 hour period, reduced to 2 if you are also drinking cola type drinks.
They don't mention caffeinated peppermints or Bawls, though.
Uh huh. Go play an hour of Ultimate Frisbee, and after you've scraped yourself off the floor (like I did) tell me it's not a sport. Face it, people invent new sports all the time, and if they become popular enough, they become spectator sports. Look at beach volleyball for another example, and tell me those people aren't working.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
you retard!! learn the difference between silicone and silicon.
You'll note I never made myself out to be skilled in social graces, either. :)
> Let's face it, pretty soon the World Chess
> Champion will be a human only because computers
> are excluded from play.
Well, how soon we forget and forget again that weightlifting does, or shortly will, suffer from the "humans only" badge of honor, i.e. limited ability monkey sideshows of the real stuff.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
Equestrian events. 'Nuff said.
Ich werde nie wieder denken
No - it would just make those drunk Russians crush the rest of the world...
[Mr Kasparov]Judge!. I think that my oponent has been using drugs again
Ok, that was a bad joke, but I couldn't resist
Make It Secret . Free JavaScript implementation of AES for your browser
They's probably using the Geriatric Spice to see what their opponent's next move is too!
Steroids are illegal. Cocaine is illegal. Athletes who get caught using these are disqualified, and possibly busted. But caffein is legal. How can they bust you for caffein? Do they ban coffee too? Are the Brits not allowed to have their tea? They'd throw fits! Next they'll ban nutritious food because vitamins and protein unfairly increase vital functions.
Chess is going to be an olympic sport yet Aggressive boarding and blading are yet to make the cut. Can anyone show me a sport today that takes more agility than someone skating a halfpipe or doing grinds over rails.
I'm so glad ESPN has the X-Games.
And if Chess can be considered a sport than when are we going to have Olympic nascar?
I was just beaten to a pulp by a P166 running Gnome Chess.
Silicone based devices definitely provide an unfair advantage.
I hereby volunteer my services to test the female chess teams for the use of silicone implants.
I thought the new Samaranch stooge (Rogge-whoever) whos replacing him isnt too keen on adding more disciplines. If they do add chess, will they remove a genuine sport (genuine sport: involves running, jumping, sprinting, kicking, hitting or a combo of the above) which doesnt have much fan following and is seen only in the olympics? Maybe they be better off adding this sport
Democratic USA - Government of the corporations, by the Corporations, for the corporations.
I understand your concern. Before chess, or anything else (including anything so trivial and wimpy as triathlon
Let's face it, pretty soon the World Chess Champion will be a human only because computers are excluded from play. Hell, pretty soon your laptop will consistently beat the (human) World Chess Champion while you watch (the DeCSSed version, shh, don't tell anyone) of Matrix V and recompile Linux Kernel version 4.4 at the same time.
Poker, thank God, is different. As explained by The University of Alberta Computer Poker Research Group: Now, if I haven't yet entirely hijacked this discussion, I will just have to try harder.
See also:
rec.gambling.poker [Usenet]
IRC Poker Server
Greg Reynold's Gpkr GUI
World Series of Poker
Great Poker Forums
Card Player Magazine [Currently down, but well worth a look.]
Poker Digest
Gambler's Book Shop
And now, if you will, may we please have a moment of silence for Stu Ungar.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I would turn this right around and say that you've never been involved with or been a serious spectator in either competitive Quake 3 playing or a serious chess competition.
you're absolutely right, i wasted much,much more of my college years playing unreal tournament. i enjoyed it more than quake, but that's just my preference. i was never in a serious chess competion, but only because i never wanted to shell out the $15 or so it took for entrance fees. last i checked, i could stand my ground at a +1700 level. i also played several sports.
And Quake 3 players don't spend thousands of hours practicing and becoming experts at their game? Chess players often start their careers as young children to fully develop a brain that can make the leaps required for chess.
i'm sure that lots of q3 players spend even more than thousands of hours playing that game (that's only averaging 3 hours a day for a year), and i'm not being totally insensitive to their efforts. i'm just saying it's more difficult to train as an athlete than it is as a gamer.
Wow that's quite a blanket assertion: The Quake 3 world is just waiting for the day that a 100m athletes comes over and wipes up the field. Sorry, but that is proposterous. There are millions of players who partake in computer gaming, and of those the best of the best of the best, with the best mental abilities (for the requirement) and the best reflexes, move to the top. This idea that "naturally superior" superhuman track and field athletes could be the best Q3 player if they only wanted to is absolutely, positively proposterous (no different than me claiming that the top Q3a player could be the fastest runner and the longest jumper if only that's what he wanted to do). Let me guess: a baseball player would automatically make a great chess player?
it is no different than you claiming that the best q3 players could be the "fastest runners and longest jumpers". barring certain aberrations (really obese quake players, athletes too dumb to turn on a computer), these would probably have a large intersection. as i said, both groups benefit from a higher percentage of high twitch muscle fibers and higher than average body/eye coordination. who knows, many of the better q3 players might be able to be quality sprinters/shotputters
the reason you don't see 100m sprinters overrunning the quake world (and vice versa), is that they don't care. anyone who's trained heavily in sprinting isn't going to give it up to spend a couple of months getting instantly fragged on a quake server. no 1334 quake players are going to sell the computer and start doing wind sprints and stadium runs...
i spoke to strongly when i said that i would "totally dismiss Q3 accomplishments in the face of most athletic accomplishment". however, i do feel that many athletes that compete at very high levels work harder. it's just my opinion, and it doesn't mean anything.
however, when you say something like:
It is sad to see a jock like attitude on Slashdot of all places berating those people "sitting on their ass" because they aren't competing in the traditional sense. Sorry but I respect the guy who has the most frags more than I respect the guy who throws a metal ball or runs down a track: While both have little value in the real world, the former seems like more of an accomplishment to me.
you have to know that there's going to be some reaction.
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
i don't mean offense, but it seems really obvious you've neither 'thrown a metal ball' or 'ran down a track' in a seriously competitive way.
i would totally dismiss Q3 accomplishments in the face of most athletic accomplishment.
the people at the top of these fields practice many hours a day, through intense physical stress/injuries. the mental discipline it takes is absolutely incredible. and i wouldn't be shocked if there reflexes were far superior to most q3 players, as both of the activities you mentioned rely greatly on fast twitch muscle and body/eye coordination. if these people spent the same playing q3 as 99% of q3 players, they'd be better.
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
I'd say that if you have hung out with a chess team, Linux User Groups, D&D players, and by god, Magic The Gathering players, you have no right to be calling someone else poorly socialized.
BilldaCat
Here's a list you can start with.
And as others have pointed out, there's more than just steroids that can be used to improve performance. Imagine a drug that can be used to simply keep the mind more alert for a longer period of time (the side effect being the need to sleep for several days afterwards to make up for it). I would surmise that a chess player that has taken such a drug would fair better than one that hasn't considering the length of some chess matches.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the banned substances are chosen on a sport by sport basis. Therefore, perhaps steroids would be allowed for chess. Just not some concentration-enchancing drug. Or rather, the IOC has a certain set of standards, and the individual sports have others.
Canadian Olympic Snowboarder Ross Rebagliati tested positive for marijuana use. The IOC has no minimum amount set for marijuana use, but the Internation Ski Federation did...
Drug testing chess players is a little odd, but there are drugs that certainly could give a player an advantage... Caffeine: This would actually do very little in a chess game. It's not the 'pep' that olympics don't like, it's because caffeine can be used as a broncial dilator (opens up the throat). Amphetamines: Amphetamines and Ritalin (Ritalin is classified as an amphetamine, 'Here little Billy, take some speed before you go to school!'). When Ritalin is snorted you feel similar to being on cocaine (but I think that snorting ritalin stimulates the same parts of the brain as heroin, but then again I'm not a doctor so don't quote me on anything I say). And amphetamines can REALLY help you concentrate, they allow to choose a goal and focus in on it. For example, I once spent about 4 hours folding a paper click into the Silicon Graphics symbol (it didn't take so long because it slowed me down, it took forever because I was never satisfied with the result, it had to be perfect). Downside being you'd get really paranoid after consistent use, and you'd probably flip out knowing you were being videotaped. Cannibis, Psilocybin (sp?) Mushrooms, and LSD: These drugs could help to think of an entirely differn't approach, they help to temporarily change your thought process. This could be both a positive, and a negative. While this are rather polar sort of views, drugs can play a role in Chess.
Let me get this straight
:)
You think feeding a bunch of World-class chess players (who are always RUSSIAN) a bunch of ALCOHOL will make any difference whatsoever ?
How many russians do you know ?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Well, yes, I had this spare disk to restart and didn't want to take too much power from the main supply...
Olympic Squad : What the Hell ! A spare disk !
Blue : Well, yes, whats wrong with that ?
Olympic Squad : Please follow us, M. Blue.
We will also have to check your steppings. Using a higher voltage and starting this spare HDD motor as a fan Facility let us think you might have Overclocked during the competition
Blue : No, It's Wrong ! I never did this. Anyhow, you have no right to discompile my log file. DMCA is still here to protect us ! And I just had the file pass through Rot-13 ! You Can't beat me without trepassing your Law ! You can't Decrypt without my aothirisation !!!
Blue Squad : Under bill 1-2007 (Bill Gates against The World / USA) I have to read yor rights !
You have the right to stable power supply ! Everything you write can be used to prosecute you. You cannot defrag during your detention time. Any use of non licensed source within your code can put you up to 5 years in Prime Number Calculus Detention Center
Blue : Noooooooo !!!! I won't support this !!!
I will BSOD if you come closer to the plug ! I warn you ! It will make a messy memory Dump in the news !!!
Olympic Squad : Stop him ! I have a QNX floppy here with me. You won't suffer, I promise !!!
To be followed
011 100 000 011
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
How about propane tank skeet
how the hell is this offtopic?
You sir, are a moron.
That said, there are many real sports that have been introduced to the olympics that I don't believe belong there. Mountain bike racing, for example. I am a mountain racer myself, but I don't think it makes a good olympic sport, since it isn't simply a test of an athlete's skill and endurance. Anything can happen when you are on a trail!
The olympics should be track & field, swimming, and wrestling. Nothing else. And absolutely no friggin' games!!! (basketball, baseball, football, water polo...)
You'll have to be camel to drink that much coffee..
Deford argued that we shouldn't worry about testing athletes for drugs, because many Olympians do it anyway. Drugs are becoming incresingly more difficult to detect, and increasingly being used by athletes. Even when drugs aren't detected, even the mere speculation of drugs can sully an athlete (like in Lance Armstrong's case.) If we want a level playing field, he suggests, don't test for drugs.
*[A Sports Illustrated link on /.? The age of the apocolypse is here, I think...]
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
They are thinking about cutting fencing? Is this the same IOC that just started allowing curling to be an olympic sport? I can't think of much that would be less TV friendly than curling, and fencing is quite cool.
This sig intentionally left blank.
and, I think, pool and billiards players too. mostly they check for barbituates and the like, to slow down the guy so he can take more careful aim, etc. and, yes, excess caffeine is banned in many sports - even in motorsports, which I'm involved in..
Small amounts of LSD or psychadelic mushrooms. It's amazing how well you can debug code when you develop a personal relationship with your missing semicolons. You feel bad for the function that returns void... poor little feller. He gets no recognition for his work.
Or chess players on speed...
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
The drugs alter your perception of reality. Specifically amphetamines tend to make you enjoy yourself. If you get this effect while playing guitar you will very much enjoy your musical abilities, thus thinking you play better. "But I swear dude, I play better high!" heh.. yeah, right.
Sigs are awesome huh?
I personally dislike all strip fencing. Its much easier for spectators to get into the game when its in the round. We live in more than 1 dimesion, lets us play all around.
Then of course, get rid of the sensors. Make it about honour once again. If you get hit while making a hit, your both out.
Trust me, much more interesting. But then I may be biased (SCA anyone.)
Chess as an olympic sport? *sigh* That's almost as bad as when they brought in baseball.
Basically, it must have an American in it, and look very dynamically interesting.
Yep, and starting with the last one, the American athelete has to have some sort of gooey human-interest story behind him, too. Ugh. Just GIVE ME THE GAMES.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
...Look at the medulla oblongata on THAT guy.
His gold medal status is pending until further review.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
I have numerous 2nd and 3rd hand accounts of the use of some prescription drugs (including ritalin) being used to aid concentration during long study sessions. (Obvously it isn't hard for medical personnel to get them or to know the side effects.) How widespread this practice is or how effective it is, I have no idea but it does appear to happen and apparently to some degree.
Maybe that's why I was never a curve wrecker in college. Everyone else was doping... Yeah, that's it. That's the ticket...
Amphetamines, Methamphetamines. Someone already said it when they said ritilin, but it goes beyond that. People take it to increase their focus and are able to concentrate at a higher level.
If two players of the same skill had a game, one on the drug, the other not -- this would definitely create an advantage.
So who knows.
debeo
>The olympic motto is "Swifter. Higher. Stronger." I fail to see how
;-)
>this includes chess and other non-physical competitions.
Swifter. Interesting that I see that and you don't...
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"That is completely insane! A sport involves athletic skill and chess requires absolutely none. That's like claiming the game of golf is a sport! Golf doesn't involve enough athletics to be considered one, and yet idiot losers are arguing chess should be one. What a bunch of idiots!
This really isn't a big deal. They should treat all the Olympic participants fairly. Not testing the chess players would be discriminating against the other participants in my physical events.
but most stimulants that I can think of are either way too strong to use to help you during a match and the others are all legal.
- tre
http://piclabs.com
grep -ri 'should work'
I'm just picturing officials trying to get Bobby Fischer (c. early-1970s, at his most tempermental) to give a sample...
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
I am sure the use of MDMA for SOME chessplayers may benefit them.
As for the feeling of "speed of thought," and whether it's real or not, I could refer you to nay number of studies that show that reaction times are improved under the effect of a stimulant like amphetamine or caffeine. In fact that's pretty much the definition of a stimulant. That's proof that at least some (not necessarily all) thought processes are sped up.
I disagree with anyone who says that chess shouldn't be included because the olympics are for physical sports.
Why, even Yogi Berra said (about baseball) "it's 75% mental, and the other 50% is physical".
... because the guy who created the Olympic Games also wanted to win a medal. Of course he won the gold medal. The same year they also gave out medals for photography or painting.
...
All this happened around the year 1900.
There's lot of stuff hidden in the old history books
The olympic motto is "Swifter. Higher. Stronger." I fail to see how this includes chess and other non-physical competitions.
I realize other so-called sports that dont fit this motto are in, such as rhythmic gymnastics and synchronized swimming. I dont think they belong either.
One way in which it could fit, is if the International Olympic Committee realized that the ancient olympics were a substitution for battle. The city-states of Greece sometimes avoided outright war and relied on the games to better their rival states. Chess would definately fit in this case. However, they seem to have given up tradition and pride in place of anything that makes money.
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
I mean seriously, I respect Nascar Drivers as athletes before these guys. At least those guys know something about physical endurance.
Yeah it is called cocaine. Cocaine is drug that has helped many medical students get through medical school. It has also help some people become president... :-)
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
You have to run in baseball. It qualifies.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Chess is not a sport, there is nothing physical about it! Gimme a break...
Lots of atheletes can benefit from drugs in ways you wouldn't normally think of. Shooters, for example, have been caught taking drugs to lower their metabolisms so they can have steadier aim. Maybe for chess they will ban ginko biloba or even caffine.
I just wonder how long till they decide to let big blue play. Only problem would be figuring out how to get a urine sample from a super computer.
You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson: never try.
'He's using steroids to move that pawn!'
Nooo.... They're overclocking Deep Blue!
But they don't say which is which. So, would it be an unfair advantage if my opponent could smell his next move? What if he was so fearful that my Bishop was going to strap him to a wall and go Inquisition on him that he played with more ferocity?
I have a hunch that such abuse would have you busted back to playing old wooden puzzles.
In other news: The PC Turns 20 And We Are Supposed To Care
Ritalin will improve the performance of anyone who takes it. A "normal" person would not require as much to get the same effects, however.
We've got computers beating world champions because chess has a finite number of moves
That's a bunch of hogwash. The number of positions possible on a chess board is more than the number of atoms in the solar system. One figure says it is equal to about half the estimated number of particles in the universe, so I'm being extremely conservative. Either way, a brute force approach would be impossible. Any computer that was big enough to use brute force would be better adapted to find the meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Even if it were possible, a computer that played from memory would be using moves that were only as good as the ones its programmers chose. And programmers wouldn't have the time to program every move because humans would easily be extinct by then. The estimated completion time would be later than the destruction of the Earth at the death of our sun.
Yes I agree with you. I am in Canada and the only only results available here is how the Canadian athletes did in their fields. If I am following any other sport or country its supa-dupa hard and I have to go to other resources.
Democratic USA - Government of the corporations, by the Corporations, for the corporations.
great, make broad generalizations about a large group of people based on your limited high school chess experience.
i'm glad you could share.
let's see if I have this right. people who think they're smart because of great skill with a game of strategy are way off base. here's a question: how much difference can you really point out between chess, a mathematical proof, and computer programming... they all require very similar cognitive processes. perhaps you can prove me wrong, or give me a pointer to 'scientists' who have proved it.
as for chess clubs having poorly-socialized members, and linux user groups coming in a close second... i'd like to direct your attention to the following...
and last of all. you say that chess is stupid, and magic and d&d are real games of strategy that demand true intelligence. how about this... maybe some chess players think that fantasy games are immature? i don't, but just a thought.
A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
I imagine cocaine would probably make someone a better chess player. Some of the effects include increased alertness, wakefulness, clearer thinking, increased concentration and increased energy. I'm sure there are other drugs that would give similar benefits.
- j
Oh, how very western to invite chess to the Olympics. Great game, for sure.
But I hope go is next.
According to the Nihon Ki-in, there are at least 7 million go players in Japan alone. That's 5-6% of the population! Go is rampant in China (add maybe 36 million players to the previous number!) and very much so in Korea (maybe another 5 million players there). In the US, it's not as well known as chess, but I'll bet more people could/have/would play it than other esoteric olympic events like fencing or whatever that gymnastic ball and ribbon stuff is.
But the big question: Is go more or less TV Friendly(tm) than chess?
There are a lot of sports that could be "TV friendly" that just don't air. For example how about Badminton. This event never gets TV time. As far as chess not being a sport, I could argue that it is a higher level of a certain sport. Let's take football for example. We can all agree that this is truely a sport based. It has players that execute a set of plays with tactics and strategry assigned by a coach. Perhaps we should think of chess players as the coach for the execution of a set of strategies and tactics for their "team." Just because the players aren't real doesn't discredit them from the tasks in which they are assigned. Hence, chess is a sport. As far as non eventful games that probably would never get listed in the olympics try Tic-Tac-Toe. "Well Bob, we can see that these two master Tic Tac Toe players have been on a stalemate for the last three weeks!.. Maybe this will be the deciding game for the best in the world and a gold medal! Here comes the final placements!....Oh another draw..." It should be easy to see the difference in game playing levels.
What kind of chess? do you have to run around on a ches board while others shoot tennis balls at you and hit you with big padded sticks?
Olympic Magic the Gathering
Magius_AR
If I'm not mistaken, the study shows that the Granmaster "remembers" while the newbie "analyzes". As the newbie evolves as a chess player, he will gradually start remebering more than he analyses. Or were you refering to a different study than this one?
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
Thats not nose Candy its Ground up Ivory...I Swear
Yeah, and the Gold for First-Posting could join Golf as only the second contest in which a NEGATIVE score is a good thing! :)
(I'm sure there are plently of contests in which a negative score is desirable, but please don't ruin my lame little joke with logic.)
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Steroids could be performance enhancing. Consider that the average male splits a given supply of blood between the brain, and, well...you know.
Consider the effect steroids has on, well...you know.
Voila! More blood for the brain!
darius
I was gonna play some chess, but then I got high, I was gonna play with the olympic best, but then i got high now i'm just sittin here I must confess, and I know why-- hey hey because I got high, because I got high, because I got high....
U of A AI research?
Go Chinook!
Like most sports, they're probably just checking for bawls
I'm not russian, but in my experience, vodka is much easier to drink than darker liqours. Usually me and my friends can take on a whole half gallon of vodka for only 2 of us. But give us some bourbon and it'll take around 5 of us to finish a half gallon. I don't drink too much though... not nearly as much as some of the people I know...
Shit adds up at the bottom...
But they've always told us that drugs LOWER mental performance. Maybe they'll give the drug tests, and anyone found with no drugs in their system will be banned because they have an unfair advantage over the other contestants.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
at least pissing up a wall is a physical accomplishment, I mean hell, christopher reeve can play chess as long as someone moves the pieces for him.
methamphetamines don't calm you down, they do exactly the opposite: They rev you up. You feel like you could run the 100 meter dash in under 10 seconds.
As for the feeling of "speed of thought", that's exactly what it is - a feeling, nothing more.
- Toby
that would be trademark infringement
Damn. Drugs are about the only thing that makes chess interesting.
"Old man yells at systemd"
If the Olympic contenders in the other sports have to be drug-free, then why should the chess players be exempt? It's an all-or-nothing deal and being fair at the very least. Whether or not chess becomes an Olympic sport is another issue, entirely. Besides, chess players can, potentially if not already, take certain drugs for stamina and endurance. This is mentioned in the article. Certain fellow geeks here are just pissed off because they're treading on their territory. Sure, drug testing is fine for muscle-bound blockheads, but chess players? That's unfair! Boo hoo!
10 cups of coffee will get you hyperactive too....
> from the letting-any-sport-it-in-now dept. Speaking of drugs, what are you guys on when you write those "dept." headers? :) Or are you just dyslexic...
What exactly is your definition of sport if not physical activity governed by a set of rules? Does shooting, archery, etc. not fit this definition?
What does it matter if the sport was derived from military activity?
Q.
If they don't exist now, someone, somewhere will develop a drug that will improve your chess game. How do you then impliment drug testing? You could go 2 or 3 sets of olympics before the arguments are over. By then, chess would be as much of a joke as weight lifting.
Another notion is whether chess be in the olympics. I believe that it was previously stated that the olympics were origionally to display skill in military arts. And what are they now? Is hockey any more martial than chess? At least in chess, you're eliminating the opposition. (though as a Canadian, I'd hate to see hockey removed from the games). And then there's synchronised swimming (ew)
Even if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, you can't be sure until you see the RealDuck
I. Asimov disliked most of the members of mesna for similar reasons (he became a member, but for a long time never attended because he couldn't stand being with these people).
But not all chess players are like that. I worked with someone who was a member of the chess federation. That is he had a ranking (low as it was).
Some people would say that being able to hack computers takes a special kind of mental skill. I guess any group of people can sink to snoberism, and yet another group of similar people will rise above it. There are assholes in any group.
Actually, chess has a history of this. Alot of rumous floated around the Korochnoi-Karpov world championship match back in the day that Karpov was being supplied amphetamines from his notorious Soviet era doctor. He was notorious because he used to wear mirror sunglasses while watching the match to freak out Korochnoi, but that's another story alltogether. Amphetamines as a drug would makes sense, as chess drains energy. Other candidate drugs that would be useful to use would include deprenyl,hydergine (so called smart drugs). And the other nootropics. Who knows if this stuff will leave you swatting an imaginary fly for the rest of your life like it supposedly did to one grandmaster, who's name I forget.
Maybe they limit it because it gives the player with the highest caffeine tolerance an unfair and unnecessary (unlike nutritious food, caffeine isn't required to survive) advantage in the game?
No, not drugs. They'll have to ban things like listening to classical music for an hour or two before the match. It's been shown to help on standardized tests.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
Then maybe you can include Quake, bridge, backgammon, strip poker, etc...
Sport, by the traditional definition, only includes "physical activity" so all those who complain that this isn't sport, just as in this thread, do have a valid point: By the traditional definition I will concede that neither chess nor Quake 3 are "sports" because there is a limited physical extertion required (then again, doesn't that exclude baseball?).
Having said that, they are mental (plus in the case of Q3 reflex wise) competitions that are extremely skill based. Whether we modify the definition of sport to include chess and Quake 3, or we make another word, the spirit of competition and the striving for excellence is the same. It is sad to see a jock like attitude on Slashdot of all places berating those people "sitting on their ass" because they aren't competing in the traditional sense. Sorry but I respect the guy who has the most frags more than I respect the guy who throws a metal ball or runs down a track: While both have little value in the real world, the former seems like more of an accomplishment to me.
I'd expect them to be tested for EPO in the 4x100 meter mens chess relay, myself.
Johnson has used his bishop move and relays to Watson, who used the rook move and passed the baton to Henderson, who took out a kenyan team member who was attempting to cross the field using the knight's move...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
You did forget that Greeks olympiades had also some poetry contest.
So who is valuing more the mind?
The Greeks or us?
Kind of showing the things in a different light, don't you think?
PS:
I happen to be against the chess included in the Olympiade Games, because I think that there is a lot of sports who should come before chess playing (skydiving for example) but it is just my opinion.
Really - if the Olymipics were meant to include mental gymnastics then the original sponsors would have invited Plato, Aristotle et al to participate in some kind of rhetoric, oratory or philosophy debate; could you imagine Pathagoras & Euclid battling it out for the gold medal in geometry?
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
In my own experience: dexedrine, methedrine, and/or other forms of "speed" (though probably not MDMA a.k.a. "Ecstasy"). They substantially increase one's ability to concentrate upon the task at hand (e.g., playing chess), and they seem to speed-up thought processes, so that the player can more rapidly consider the particulars of the "tree" of potential moves. Caffeine is not nearly so good and has the disadvantage of being a diuretic, but you must beware of overdosing on "speed" (!!!). It can easily "burn you out" and leave you a bit daft, and inflict kidney damage, among other unfortunate "side effects".
What I wanna know is, how long until Quake 2 becomes an olympic sport?
jd
true. chess just isn't a sport. just because it's competitive doesn't mean it belongs in the olympics.
.) more of a sport than chess, but not so much so i'd expect --or want-- to see it in the olympics.
i consider car racing (drag racing, formula 1, . .
if chess players are athletes, then so are sysadmins. i'm actually in training for the soon-to-be-added olympic sport: reading slashdot!
"Mister Potato-head --MISTER POTATO-HEAD! Backdoors are not secrets!" (War Games, 1983)
Having filmed some college fencing myself, it's a tough sport to make interesting, since (at least at the college level I saw) most of it consisted of them standing on the strip preparing for the round restart or staying out of range and looking for a way to attack.
... (last time the station tried, for obvious reasons)
That's why it's not TV friendly; people have no attention spans. They're not going to feel the tension between the fencers, probably.
The action is sudden, fast moving, and brief, so it's hard to catch on film properly, especially consistently; though the biggest problem is the long lull periods.
Olympic fencing could be different, of course; there's probably more action than the (admittedly fairly good) teams I filmed.
And I've only done it for a few hours, anyway; a couple others I know tried a full match, but with 3/4 colleges and 3 teams per college (foil, epee (sp?), sabre) it takes around 7 hours last I knew
I would suggest Vasopressin for Chess.
Not so. Motor sports are endurance sports, like triathalon or marthathon. F1 and CART drivers are all in very good shape. They do continuous conditioning work and lose weight, up to 15 lbs or more, during the course of a two-hour race.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
Ignore the "Chess Isn't a Sport" arguements. That does not matter to the IOC. What matters is that chess is not TV friendly. The IOC cares more about ratings than anything else.
posted by an irrate fencer, a sport that is in danger of being cut because we aren't "TV Friendly".
W
Pink moose to purple willow tree 4... Checkmate!
Can anyone confirm or this or disprove it?
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Could we please get rid of synchronized swimming? Or at least combine the two?
Lets just cut to the chase and add "How high can you piss up a wall?" to the Olympics since its gonna happen eventually anyway.
Actually American Gladiators has a chess event now. No, really!
Actually, just today on NPR they discussed a research study that suggested that many Master and Grandmaster level chess players are using a part of the brain completely unused in the average player. The conclusion drawn by this researcher and study was that your average person is incapible due to his brain structure to become a Grandmaster.
Now while I don't agree with that, since it's been proven that different experiences can help develop the functioning of different parts of the brain, and I would imagine thousands of games of chess in childhood would warp anyone's brain... anyway, there's a point here somewhere.
The point I'm trying to make is that just because you someone may think differently, it's an amazingly concieted assumption to make to assume that it's "stupid".
And no, I can barely keep the names of the pieces right, I'm not a chess fanatic.
"Uppers defintiely are performance enhacnign when it comes to some things."
Now if we could just find something to enhance typing ability... *GRIN*
Imagine a chess match in which the players drop some LSD or eat some magic shrooms...
The players would get into a philosophical discussion on the underlying meanings of the game or they might feel sorry for the pawns since they always get the shaft.
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with. - Tennessee Williams
As a card-carrying member of the ACBL (American Contract Bridge Leage) I'm ashamed to say that Bridge is a demo "sport" in the 2002 SLC Olympics!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
That's like claiming the game of golf is a sport! Golf doesn't involve enough athletics to be considered one,
Have you ever tried to consistently hit a golf ball to the same spot? The hand-eye coordination required is incredible.
d'oh!
cf. Radical vegans, "do other primates have voting rights?", considerable debate... Friday night drunks, "we're really cool and the girls love us", considerable debate...
The fact that one small group may believe it doesn't make it true, or even worth everyone else bothering with. The rest of the world sees this and laughs. Remember, this article was put in as a funny, not as a serious question.
Chess is not a sport. Nor are poker, backgammon or mental arithmetic, since none involve any physical skill at all. Snooker/pool/billiards may _just_ make it in there, since it requires considerable hand-eye coordination, which is physical skill. Chess only requires the hand-eye coordination necessary to close fingers over a piece, move it to another square and hit a timer button.
Grab.
42, e = mc sqared, ontological arguments aside il cogito ergo sum. Your turn.
Yeah, the Mvthletes.
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
Well then get rid of ice dancing, figure skating, infact EVERY "sport" where score isn't kept by a real measure of time, distance, or goals scored. If a panel of biased judges decide the winner get rid of it. At least there is a clear winner in chess.
I, for one, cannot bring the proper and tremendous effort of concentration to bear on my opening game without three Red Bulls and a hypermint.
Everything looks really bright and the edges are very clear. Isn't this kind of like what cocaine is supposed to be like?
Speed and other amphetamines can greatly increase focus and concentration for long periods of time. In my younger, more exuberant days, I remember being amped up on speed and being able to play guitar better than I ever had. I think where we should look, however, is to the current governing bodies of chess. Is drug use prevalent in any way in competetive chess? I have no idea whatsoever..
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
A chess master might get an advantage from taking Ritalin in one constest but even that is doubtful. It is a very powerful drug that messes with several areas of the brain. If you are a chess grandmaster you almost certainly don't suffer from ADD. Like if you had ADD how did you get there? You might well suffer from dyslexia which is the problem that many Ritalin victims actually have it being easier to prescribe an addictive drug than diagnose the problem.
One of the ironic things about high school and college abuse of Ritalin is that the kids who take it so that they can concentrate hours at a stretch would almost certainly learn more if they took regular breaks. Fatigue is the brain's signal to the body that it needs a rest. Transfer from short term to long term memory appears to work best as a background task while the variables are not locked by another process. It is better to take regular five minute breaks than try to sit down for hours at a stretch.
LSD may have helped the Beatles write Sgt Pepper but I don't think anyone considers that it would have helped their creativity over the long term if they had kept taking it.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
I need a refill on steriods for my upcoming full contact chess tournament. Now where did I put my straw for underwater basket weaving?
All right then, is unprotected sex a game or a sport?
Bonus question: could it make it into the olympics?
It's not really a game (since I don't race) unlike other activities in the Olympics. Besides, the Olympics won't include anything involving motors... not that I would want motorcycling to be an Olympic event.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that motorcycling, like rock-climbing, hang-gliding, or bull fighting, is a sport because it is an intense physical activity where the consequences of a mistake are deadly, but the participants do it just for fun.
It's kind of an Ernest Hemmingway perspective. I bet the old man wouldn't have called chess a sport.
That's a valid point, but I'm thinking there is a different reason for this.
It would be a huge mess if you started trying to apply different drug-use standards to different sports. Imagine the confusion and potential for error...
class A - swimming, track & field, gymnastics and wrestling - no steroids, no amphetimines, etc
class B - fencing, skeet shooting, curling and equestrian events - no steroids allowed, but amphetimines are ok.
class C - chess - take whatever the hell you want
"no, no, no -- please just make it easier for us to know what we can and can't take by having one standard for everything!"
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
If Chess is added to the Olympics, it's only a matter of time before many many other "mental" games are petitioning the Olympic Commission for admission to the games. Instead of allowing the Commission to be very judgemental in what they allow, it'd make better sense for a mental Olympics to be wholly created outside of the existing Games, IMHO.
It seems to me that this is kind of an affirmative action for the unathletic. Then again, curling is a part of the Olympics so I guess its an evolution of games to include chess. Who knows, maybe in 2012 we'll get Quake 6.
Why? Because Big Blue would always fail the drug tests due to extravagant arsenic and lead counts! This is discrimination!! IBM should sue!!!
Scientists have proved that all it takes to be a good chess player is a good memory. So why do we treat these people as though playing chess is a sign of intelligence ?
Rarely is anything about the mind proven, just speculated and corelated. If all it takes to play chess is a good memory, then why has it take so long for computers to compete with grand masters level chess players. Computers have superior memory to people. It is becuase computers lack abstraction and reasoning skills, two basic component in what you call imagination.
As x approaches total apathy I couldn't care less.
It's amazing it's taken this long for our civilization to progress (digress?) this far. You know it says something when millions of athletes are willing to sacrifice their minds and bodies to chemical drugs, to be the best, but only a few would choose to do so to enhace their mind. The this becomes widespread would be, IMO, a far more important landmark in human history than the addition of chess to the Olympics.
If you think about it, your mind is all you are. Without it, you're just some schmuck off the street. I, for one, would like to truly see the limits of the human mind--how far it is possible to advance without broaching insanity, and without the use of drugs which would take away your reasoning and uniqueness.
This also applies to bridge, which is on track for Olympic status, and already has had its first dope tests.
What a bout a beo.. oops.. erhh...
If Chess makes it into the Olympic Games, maybe one day we can dream of being Olympic Gold Medal of QuakeIII or whatever games exists at this time....
actually it does not
It keeps you focussed for a longer time period. That's not the same thing
Crystal Meth :)
Allow the drugs. This could be an advantage for the non-drug-abusing player, who would be able to focus on the game without being distracted by squadrons of 8 foot tall pink dancing rooks doing the Watusi over the chess board.
Of course, they can't ban cofee.. can they?
In many sports, there are strict limits for caffeine. It's possible to get busted in tests just by drinking too much coffee. Usually 300-500mg of caffeine pushes you above the limit (12mg of caffeine in 1l of urine). Since there is usually 40-60mg of caffeine in one cup of coffee, 10 cups of coffee would be too much.
When you smile, the world laughs at you.
The society we live in has put a higher premium on the mental skills, that's what is going on.
To grok this we need to go back to the original Greco-Roman games. The games were feats of athletic skill and battle strategy, which were definitely essential survival skills during those days.
Today, while these skills are still important, the mental aspect of strategy and tactics has become far more important.
When a panoply of technologies can deter even the largest crowd (audio detterence technology, microwaves meant to temporarily blind people mounted on tanks are all part of the "nonlethal" arsenal) the controllers of these technologies are at the crux of social decisions.
The Int'l Olympic Committee is supposed to consider the social relationships of the Games, their deeper meaning, etc. along with all the cash and entertainment values of the Games. Perhaps, by adding chess, this social value is their primary consideration.
(It certainly won't add any entertainment or monetary value to the Games!)
Goat sex free since 2001
topic says it all
::giggling:: so true, so true!
Chess is not a sport. Sports require motor skills. Chess does not. A game of chess can be played over the phone with the players describing their moves. Stephen Hawking could play chess. The Olympics are a joke.
Like an academic decathlon for adults?
Apparently a high concentration of caffeine isn't allowed in some sports, and when I got this news from a tv report they said that the testing would include checking participants for caffeine. This might piss off chess players who aren't morning people.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
amphetamines have been documented as improving performance. Search for Karpov, Kasparov and speed and you should get the documentation.
One would like to think that pure mental activity wouldn't benefit from simple physical acceleration but actually, since thinking is physiological activity, anything that accelerates physical activity will accelerate thought - of course I wouldn't recommend this as a long-term approach.
An article from Chess Life a few years ago stated Karpov used small doses of amphetamines to improve performance but only during matches, no other time.
Obfuscated Perl contest!
Fencers *were* in danger of being cut from the Olympics.
It's very doubtful that it'll happen now, with the sport growing in popularity worldwide, and fencing federations moving quickly to adapt to the new results-oriented climate demanded by national Olympic Committees.
(Note: This money-for-medals deal is, of course, why the US is spearheading the movement to get Women's Sabre included in 2004...not only out of fairness, but also cause we have a 15 year old sabreuse out in Oregon who can spank all comers!)
darius
Canada recently enacted laws making cannabis available as medicine for the seriously ill, and the US gov't continues to provide it for 7 individuals grandfathered in from Bush the Elder's termination of the Compassionate Investigative New Drug trial of the '80s.
Would these individuals be barred from competitive chess?
Ben Masel: 51,282 votes for US Senate in the Wisconsin Democratic Primary
Chess was often used by most of the more famous Generals during various times to heighten their minds and visualize the battle field. Chess is often concidered to be what we now call "Military Exercies". Thus it's very fitting to see Chess in Olympics and most definitly a spartan playing it in Greece.
The funniest thing about your comment won't be understood by most people. Most people probably don't know who BilldaCat is. Some of us remember.
And even fewer of us probably remember, and still celebrate, "Chad is Bad" day.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
I just assumed that since you were such a giant jackass, that your "sport" was ramming down giant dildos. My mistake...
What makes something worth watching and getting televised would be its entertainment value....in which case bring on the drugs! If you've ever watched ESPN2's "World's Stongest Man Competitions", you know that these mutants are taking performance enhancing drugs. Watching it makes me laugh and reminds me of Saturday Night Live's "Steroid Olympics". Why do I watch these brutes lobbing around concrete filled barrels and hauling semis with their bare hands? Because it's entertaining. So if we had performance enhancing drugs in the olympics - I'd pay money for someone doped up to Mentat level playing another Mentat-level olympian - or better yet, telepathics moving the pieces with their minds via telekinesis and then using other mental disciplines to block their thoughts.
-When going for broke, go for Ithaca!
Chess- how much physical activity is that? You'd think that something a little more interesting like Paintball would be considered. With Paintball being played everywhere, even the Toronto Skydome why not introduce paintball as an olympic sport before chess. Maybe the steroids testing might actually be useful for something that requires some sort of strenous effort?
I wonder what it would be like playing chess stoned. You'd probably make amazing insights into the other players strategy (they're basing their attack from Darth Vader's plan in The Empire Strikes Back!)... all wrong of course.
Alternatively we could numb the grand masters brain cells with alcohol. http://www.firebox.com/product.php?id=115
Pinky: "What are we going to do tomorrow night Brain?"
Brain: "I would tell you Pinky but this 120 char limi
If i read the article correctly, they wanted to get a little more physical activity into the mix...
I propose trench-wars as a new olympic sport!
RUN...splat
It seems to me that I there was a study on Australian cyclists that showed caffiene (my personal favorite...) improved response times in olympic cyclists. I'm sure there are other "concentration" drugs which improve response times and focus attention, but I didn t find a link to the study. If anyone else has ever heard this, please feel free to back me up... personal experience: caffiene definitely does provide faster response times to late night tech support calls.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" -- Red Green
I have known many good chess players that smoke like chimneys. I know I play much better while chain-smoking my favorite Phillip-Morris product. g4!? orthodox chess is for wimps who don't like losing in a terrible fashion.
In fact when Karpov and Kasparov played, Kasparov objected to Karpov's team bringing him drinks. He knew that karpov probably took drugs, but he didn't want him to be able to vary the drug based on the situation of the game. Doesn't anyone here drink coffee?
Speed chess can be fun to watch. Watching regular chess is a good way to slip into slumber-land.
I don't think any network will need to cover a regular chess game live. Even golf moves faster.
--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
Massive ratings?....of course not...but SOME ratings if they actually got televised, sure. :) Of course, the number of actual events that get televised during the Olympics currently is absurd. Basically, it must have an American in it, and look very dynamically interesting. When was the last time you saw Table Tennis or Fencing or Judo or hammer throw or any of the other gazillion events televised?
Pot seems to help me hhaha sometimes hehe.
Are there any brain enhancing drugs that would improve my chess?
I have been playing on www.redhotpawn.com and I have been getting wiped out by my friends!
Auto-check your UK lottery lines
My Toyota Camry can run a mile in well under 40 seconds. Cars can beat people because the mile run is related to only one variable - speed.
There are not many games left that a well designed machine can not beat the entire human population at.
m00.
Good point, but that's not the whole effect. Amphetamines increase concentration and focus. I have recordings of my guitar playing when I was high, and it was noticably better.
Uppers defintiely are performance enhacnign when it comes to some things.
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
I take Claritin for my allergies. Claritin is considered an illegal drug in the Olympics. They are extremely paranoid in the Olympics. But then again, countries continue to abuse the drugs. It used to be the Soviet bloc countries, lately its been the Chinese in swimming and track and field.
I think it would be hilarious to see some Chess 'nerd' get banned from the Olympics for testing positive for Human Growth Hormone. That would definitely put Chess on ESPN!
Whoever said that no one can be killed while playing chess? I remember reading a few years ago how a player's head literally exploded during a match due to some unusual chemical imbalance. Perhaps this is why officials want to mandate drug testing. o_O
"Leave the strategizing to those of us with planet-sized brains." -Tycho
Take 30 penguins and call me in the morning.
Russian roulette?
Ich werde nie wieder denken
Though... if you want to get technical about it, maybe "faster, higher, stronger" could be used in an arguement for drugs in competition.
A friends girlfriend, a pharmacist to be, offered to give me beta blockers. I didn't accept, but she insisted that they'd make it hard for me to be nervous.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
Surely its time for Fishing to be entered as an Olympic Discipline then. It does involve Animals, but so does all the Horsback-Stuff.
Like the Mind Sports Olympiad, perchance?
Thad
what do you do for sport?
Are you saying that Athletics is a prerequisite for something to be considered a sport?
The classic example here is Motor Sport (of any kind). The amount of athletic activity while driving (excluding G-forces etc) is not actually that high - most of it is mental concentration. On the other hand, you really need to be very fit indeed to hold concentration long enough for a motor race.
http://www.themeparks.ie
IIRC, and I may not, wasn't the Olympics originally a fairly spartan (not Spartan!) excercise with minimal accoutrements designed to provide some competition, to get the citizens and warriors into shape (many of the original olympic events seem to have resembled military tasks), and to show anyone watching that the city-state wasn't one to be messed with?
I just can't conceive of sun-bronzed Adonii working up a sweat deciding "King to Queen's Pawn 4?..."
Chess has about as much fit with classic Olympic activity (ignore the modern TV-friendly Olympics including Curling and Tai Chi and Lord knows what else) as Microsoft does with secure systems...
And performance enhancing drugs for chess? Maybe some tranqs so you could get some sleep instead of being bored for hours... next thing they'll suggest is full-contact Olympic bocce....
-- Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."
"Roid-Raged Chess geek shoves rook through opponents eye, then proceeds to hurl pawns into the audience. 5 dead, 12 injured. More at 11:00."
You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson: never try.
I feel, the short duration of cocaine would reduce it's suitability for chess players. The officials might get annoyed at the players cutting up lines on the table between moves...
R, Linus
Freestyle's got to be the one - getting the forehand/backhand switch really smooth.
Forget doping - a tatoo of 7 of 9 on the beergut would be the ultimate cheat.
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
Contestants compete in a giant chess board shaped pool, each team representing the appropriate chess piece (pawns, knights, queens etc.). Teams alternate turns with their rhythmic gymnastic ribbons fluttering non-stop as they try to get the ball in the other team's net with table tennis paddles. Equestrian referees with badminton raquets shall penalize players who foot fault or allow the ball hit the sand. The match shall be declared upon completion of a flawless SDE (Synchronized Drowning Event) by either team.
Anyone with me? I say we petetion the IOC for recognition of this event...
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
Can't say I've ever seen propane tank hurling, however an interesting idea.
Here, let me ruin your lame joke with logic.
It is impossible to get a negative score in golf. How can you get -1 on a hole? The lowest golf score ever on a standard course (+6000 yards) is a 58 (maybe a 57?). On the PGA tour, it is 59. In theory, the lowest possible score would be 18, with 18 holes in one.
The negative scores you see on TV are the current standing of the golfers in relation to par. They are only used to compare scores of golfers on different holes.
If you ask me, its stupid. I'd rather play Magic - The Gathering
So, you spend a fortune on a rip-off card scheme and say that chess is stupid? At least when you buy a chess set, all the pieces are included.
Anything else is a "game."
(Go ahead, ask me what I do for sport.)
The article on espn stated that doctors for the World Chess Federation said that caffeine and steroids and other drugs can give a person an endurance advantage when a match runs into the 5th or higher hour, which can lead to an unfair advantage in favor of an individual using an IOC-banned substance.
I find it kinda strange that the same drugs that allow Mark McGuire (sp?) to hit dingers also gives the brain an endurance lift.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
Not to pick a nit, I don't really play chess but is queens pawn 4 even a position anywhere on the board.
Unfortunately, Ritalin can only give concentration to those who cant concentrate to begin with. If a normal person took Ritalin they would just get high. The U.S. has developed a problem with teenagers that were on ritalin as a kid for so long that now they chop it up and snort it to get a quick feeling of euphoria.
The mechanics behind fencing equipment and weapons are a bit more then just "Pointy wires." Epee, the weapon that I fence, is closest that passes to that, since the entire body is considerd target area, and there is no right of way (i.e., if you were to have right of way, and someone was attacking you first, extended first, whatnot, you couldn't slip in an attack with out first establishing your own right of way through a parry, or your own extension, etc). But then Epee is fast paced in the action department. and anything more would be overkill.
Foil and Sabre, the other two weapons require the use of a la-me, which A: Designates Target Area, and through the use of a scoring box B: Shows if the target area is hit and C: Shows if there is a double touch. Foil weapons are similar to epee in the stance that it has a button "plunger" tip. Saber on the other hand is basicaly a rod that has a small current running through it so that when one blade hits a la-me, a touch is scored, provided it's a legal hit, etc.
As for the look, It's more a form of function. We have that goofy stance so there is less target area for a person to hit, as well as having more surface area with our back foot in order to propell ourselves forward, be it stepping forward, lunging, or a flush (think an unexpected charge). The suits are ment to be smooth and form fitting, so that there are no creases for a tip to snag on and go off, and if you got the body for it, make you look pretty damn sexy (as told to me by more then a fair share of girls), which when added to the entire "honor dueling" thing gets some girls attention really quick.
And who's to say that broadsword fighting were to be anymore interesting? It'd be hack, hack, slash, slash, and be just more boring and a lot more noisier (not in the good way) then fencing. And if you suggest adding broadswords TO fencing, you would not see any world champions in that, since it's completely unrealistic. Hence, that's why it was weeded out after the middle ages, and such single bladed or tipped weapons took over as the arm of choice during the "explorationistic" period (13/1400's till early 1900's)
Just because our arms and chests don't look like grapefruit injected bulges, and we wear a bit more then a loincloth, and less than enough sheet metal to make a 77 Chevelle out of, doesn't make us less entertaining if you took the time to actually understand the mechanics behind it. Heathen
blah
I believe that with fencing more than one cup of coffee is considered doping.
If I was that drunk, I would have remembered it -- H. Simpson
I think it's a great thing that they are
letting chess player into the olympics they
deserve it. As for testing I have heard of
some drugs that have been known to increase
brain activity. Althought minimal it may be
just enought to get the edge.
flamedaemon666
I don't think anybody would be able to play chess the day after they've eaten shrooms. BAD after effects, but a very very cool trip.
The USCF is talking about having drug testing at all tournaments. Would you want to have to urinate in the presence of the TD just to play chess? If you have a 9 year old son or daughter who plays chess, would you want the 50 year old TD taking them to the bathroom to watch them urinate? This is absolutely insane. Note that among the banned substances is caffeine! I've been playing in tournaments since 1984, but this may be the end of it for me.
Terry Layne
Portland, OR
I don't see why the presence/absence of games in a particular category should preclude them. Physical games? Caps, pissing contests, propane tank hurling, bumper-shining, beer can skeet, etc, etc, etc. I can easily come up with a hundred games that I've actually played (grew up in rural Canada) that are physical, but aren't in the Olympics.
Oh, and for the record: you don't need to appease the non-athletic crowd. Most of us are smart enough to not waste our time with media-driven 'events' in the first place :)
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Why would amphetamines be OK for fencing? Speed of reaction is incredibly important!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
No, that was not the point of the study's findings. The study showed that grandmaster's rely more on long-term memory due to an extraordinary amount of time spent examining other chess games, thereby becoming familiar with recurring or similar tactical situations.
In contrast, the average player relies more on brute calculation of their next move without the benefit of having memorized many a game.
The study demonstrates that, as in many activities, intelligence is not the sole component to success -- experience plays a major role.
uhhh, I wasn't going for a realistic example, just using drug names as they came to me to illustrate my point (badly, it seems)
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Discipline. It's free, and works if actually used.
The coolest voice ever.
``What, human-growth hormones so we can bang the clock harder?'' said Jim Leade, a U.S. representative to FIDE who thinks the organization is being too strict. ``It absolutely registers as ridiculous.''
No, what's ridiculous is that chess is being considered as an olympic sport. Come on people, can we stick to the core events and stop all this junk? I heard that frisbee was being considered as an event... really, come on, that's something you play in the park with your dog, not something you do as a world class athlete. They need to go back to basics, running, jumping, lifting heavy stuff, swimming, etc. Really, what's next? Are they going to have posting slashdot articles as an event? How about sitting in an office chair, or maybe coffee preparing? All of these things have their places, and those places are not in the Olympics.
~ now you know
Possibly Crystal Methamphetamine???? Of course the player would be gritting his teeth and producing a lot of body oder. lol!
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
Sorry, chess doesn't fit.
Not every activity/hobby should become an Olympic sport.
no way! chess as an olympic sport? guess the geeks have to get in somehow. I'm still awaiting freestyle walking, dwarf tossing and log rolling to become olympic sports.
E.
-
This Post has been brought to you by the letter "E".
I can see the TV audiences for the 'mental olympics' being HUGE!
will the engineers who developed it have to be tested?
I mean cmon, who the hell would watch this crap? Secondly, it just involves thinking, I mean, there are hundreds or thousands of games that do so. I think they just stuck it in there to appease non-athletic people worldwide.
I'll put my money on the U.S. "crack team" any day of the week. We're #1!!!
:)
- Robin
PS - how would they handle drug testing for the crack team?
How 'bout addin masturbation?
I can "release my load" in 15 seconds flat!
Well, it'd be nice to see an intellectual sport at the Olympics, were it not for the simple fact that chess is broken. We've got computers beating world champions because chess has a finite number of moves. It can only branch so many times before the game ends. What if we finally figured out exactly how to win a game of chess? Then the whole tournament would boil down to who went first.
Maybe a real intellectual sport should be considered, instead of a brainteaser.
This
:) HA! As long as it's not Vodka, it may just work, no? A friend of mine from Moscow could drink (almost literally) gallons of Vodka in a sitting, but give him some rum and he was flying high!
Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead.
FreeBSD - the power to serve.
Are you kidding me? I just know Jon Katz is behind this somehow...
Can 'racetams be tested for (piracetam/oxiracetam/aniracetam/pramiracetam)? Hydergine? DMAE? Deprenyl/Selegiline? Gingko Biloba/Centella Asiastica/Pemoline/Huperzine A?
Geez, there's more stuff available for the want-to-be-cognitively jacked than physical atheletes have! If you don't know what I'm talking about, you might just need some.
Sure; in a couple of years, some joker's going to try to compete using the new "Little Blue" implant.
As long as they don't test for caffiene I think most Chess players will be ok....
"Excuses are like asses, everyone has one and they all stink." - Adam Corrola
Why does fencing (sword fighting in general) look so great in movies but is so boring as a sport. Very simple, in the movies, everything is exaggerated - big sweeping moves. Grandious flourishing of the weapon. You broadcast all your moves to make it look good. In the sport, you make your attack with the absolute minimal amount of movement necessary.
I was taught stage fencing. Now I'm completely incapable of engaging in sport fencing.
-- Will program for bandwidth
LOL! Too true.
All my little Hulkamaniacs... watch me move my knight into position to storm the castle ... Oooh yeah! Whatcha gonna do when my 24" pythons run wild on your queen?
... imagine what roid-rage could do to this "sport" ... Personally, my vote is to get "Risk" added as an olympic sport. What board-game could be more international? Our first competitors cold be Kramer and Neuman.
Seriously
Does ginko do anything?
Caffine above a certain amount is banned by the IOC (International Olympic Commitee). All racing bicyclists know exactly how many Mountain Dews they can drink and not test positive.
The drug that increases the amount of red blood cells in your blood (EPO) could be used to increase the amount of oxygen available to the brain. Usually EPO is taken to increase the amont of oxygen absorbed by the muscles, but the brain needs oxygen as well. Be careful though, ou must take EPO with Cumadin (rat poison) to thin your blood so you don't die in your sleep from a heart attack (blood too thick to pump).
phil.
Fry: heh, Yakov Smirnoff said it
Leela: No he didn't.
See here.
http://www.themeparks.ie
Chess wouldn't work at the Winter Games--rules allow only sports played on ice or snow.
How 'bout winter-chess performed on ice? Just as fun to watch as Nancy Kerrigan, and maybe a tad more interesting?
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
Ball room dancing, chess.... what next?
How about billiards?
For more information, click here.
If pot is banned, I could be better than Kasparov and still never get in :)
Hell, I wonder if anyone could.
LP
These drugs would be okay for Quake, etc, but not for Chess, given their side effects inhelping a person going postal.
On the other hand, Olympic Quake sounds like fun
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
This got me thinking - I know there's a small movement for allowing all drugs into sport - I'm thinking though lets only allow performance-*decreasing* drugs in...
Anyone seen that shot-glass chess set - each time you take a piece, down a whiskey - would *love* to see chess masters at that - reckon it would even up chess masters with mere mortals who've actually drank before...
ritalin, helps with ADD, so perhaps so, to stay more concentrated. methamphetamines to stay awake? but I dont know about being productive during that time, you'd be in overdrive, probably (more) prone to error.
I beleive that a small dose of methamphetamine could be very benficial to a chess player. In my experience, if the correct dose is used, a general relaxed feeling comes over the user, as well as a feeling of confidence and speed of thought.
The increase in cognative speed and the general projected confidence could be extremely useful in a chess match.
You'd have to be very careful about the tendancy to over compensate though...
http://www.erowid.org has more information on various chemicals, some of which could be interesting in this discussion.
R, Linus
How about Ritalin or some other drug to improve concentration skills. What about some kind of coolness-under-fire drugs to block out the pressure? Are there drugs that won't 'zombify' a person, but keep them focused?
Just asking...
I donate all spillover Karma to the charity of my choice... Ada was still a babe despite what people may say...
Will they allow replicants like Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) to compete? He did help J.F. Sebastian beat Mr Tyrell.
>Are there drugs that won't 'zombify' a person, but keep them focused?
>
>Just asking...
Beta blockers come to mind... see about beta blockers at Encyclopedia.com"
They're used for lowering blood pressure and heart rate and are also used as anti-anxiety drugs for people that have stagefright. Their use as performance enhancing drug is mainly in high-stress sports such as ski-jumping. And of course they're banned for that use.
I guess most people think of "sport" as being a physical thing, not mental. I don't see any reason why a mental game couldn't be classified as a sport. Also the original olympic games were designed as a substitute for war. Chess has also been used as a substitute for war.
If chess does make it into the olympics, then that lets the door open for other games such as poker, blackjack, etc.
The only problem I see is who would buy a ticket to watch a chess match? Unless you are a serious chess player yourself the game can be a exciting as watching paint dry. Then again, the matchup with "deep blue" a few years ago raised quite an interest.
Yeah, um, I thought the Olympics were for physical feats, not mental. Are there no "mental" olympics? If not, there should be.
I belong to the ______ generation.
ok.... just stop and think about this...
if you allow them caffeine, who's telling when they'll stop? I mean, right now the olympics only last two weeks, no?
insight is for those without vision or an imagination!
that would actually benefit the chess player? Apart from ones that actually make chess *interesting* of course...
FP?
It's true that when I drink Mt. Dew, my code has less bugs. Which is too bad, because for health reasons I can't guzzle the stuff as much as I'd like...
"IOC spokeswoman Emmanuelle Moreau said there is no possibility of adding chess at the 2004 Games in Athens, which has already reached its cap of 10,000 athletes. Chess wouldn't work at the Winter Games--rules allow only sports played on ice or snow. "
I don't understand this! Why can't chess be played on ice or snow?
The big problems I think chess might have as an olympic sport is duration of the tournament (cricket has this problem too I guess). A problem chess may share with other sports and games is that some countries (e.g. Russia) have a very deep pool of talent, so that superior players might get excluded from the tournaments because of their nationality.
Even tohugh this may sound rather pointless, I believe it's policy for all "athletes" in the olympics to get a drug test.
That's cause caffeine helps make you smarter. Once I memorized the whole periodic table in about 15 minutes only using two cans of pepsi and the chart. Go caffeine!
No sig for you.
Nah... Junkyard Wars! Now THERE's a sport!
</joke>
if there are drugs that'll make me smarter, I want some NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!!!
I have friends that use Ritalin to study and I need evidence to convince them _NOT_ to use it. Thanks!
Go Scarlet Knights!
I guess the governing bodies of chess don't have the same sway with the IOC as the NHL or the NBA. For some *cough* reason, competitors in these events don't get tested for drugs. Of course, these players don't use drugs, they're *professionals*, right?
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
Good analogy of chess and football and the "human equation".
Rangers Lead the Way!
More ranting and raving on this subject: http://www.neoteric.nu
Great...just what we need...Olympics games that last 3 months...:-)
I played in the 2000 World Bridge Olympiad and a few of the players were selected for drug testing in accordance to the Olympic rules, as Bridge will also be included as a demonstration sport in the 2002 Winter Olympics.
They might test for Ginka Biloba or other drugs that are supposed to enhance memory and concentration.....if any of them acually works. Good to see that the olympics are becoming more intelligent, though.
12mg of caffeine in 1l of urine
That's a typo, right? If a drug tester gave me those results, among my first reactions would be to wonder if the drug tester was on drugs...