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Mozilla 0.9.6 Released
bluephone writes: "Yessireebob. mozilla.org has released the 0.9.6 milestone. Here are Release Notes and a link of files on the FTP server. For milestones 0.9.7 and 0.9.8, the focus is on performace enhancingment, and stability of the Mail/News end of the suite. And boy, is it getting good..."
Mozilla crashed on my site!
Very nice release so far, mail/news seems to be "catching up" to the browser function.
... does anyone have a reasonable explanation on why the performance is so radically different between linux/win.
The tabbed browsing is almost up to galeon-level, though the speed is still slow, and its missing an (X) to close individual tabs. Use ctrl-w to close tabs in the meantime. This feature is quickly becoming my favorite.
One thing that continually bugs me is the total lack of performance of the linux builds compared to the windows builds. On windows, moz is FAST, and getting faster, and I don't mean just the turbo-load stuff
From my daily usage, mozilla on windows is "done" as far as for what I need to do, on linux, it still has a long way to go.
What is making mozilla slow on linux?
go Mozilla!
its looking really good - every release gets a lot more reliable, and has slowly taken over #2 from opera, and is now getting close to giving IE a run for its money. one thing i wish i knew how to do is make a nice solid, simple theme for moz though - i'm not too high on any of the themes i've seen so far.
regardless - this is not the mozilla devolpers jobs - they're doing a great job with the browser! the performance fixes they are referring to are also much anticipated - speeding this bad boy up would shut up a ton of critics.
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
Is the location field long enough now? I can barely see more than http:// in my current version.
If the only part of mozilla you like is Gecko, then use only gecko with a simplified interface.
For linux, try Galeon
For windows, try K-Meleon
From the release note,
System requirement
* Intel Pentium-class 233 MHz (or faster) processor
So your hardware isn't even covered by the requirement. However, Mozilla runs fine if you have a lightly loaded system, e.g. a clean install of Windows 95. I was able to run Netscape 6.2 on a Pentium 100 with 32MB RAM in Win95, and it outperforms Netscape 4.79 (try fancier pages like www.msn.com; simple pages doesn't justify what Gecko is capable of).
Your hardware is pretty old. If you're thinking about running Mozilla on top of X in unix, well, you're pushing your computer too hard
I've been trying to figure out how to export mail and addresses (specifically addresses, you can forward all the mail out). Anyone have any ideas?
The actual address book file is anything but easy to read XML...
I've been using galeon here mainly (it's using gecko as well), and I've found it to be quite good. The interface is much lighter than mozilla's, and it has a very good tab implementations. Give it a try if you haven't already.
----
All of whose base are belong to the what-now?
Mozilla seems to really be coming along. As soon as it is streamlined more or less, it should run smoothly on most setups. Perhaps the most evident note on this suite though, is that it is still in the 0.*.* mode in developement. People are making decisions on it before it is fully developed, or before it hits the 1.0 mark.
If you tried it a while back, wait until about 1.5.*, I am sure it will all work perfectly then. This build is a lot better than previous versions though. I would defitely recommend it for the end user who has a p2 300 or above.
I've found every release better than the last, except for 0.95, which seemed to have gained a few more crashes. I'm excited to see how this one goes. Can anybody give me instructions on how to integrate the Netscape spell checker and change the language settings to en_GB? I tried following instructions for the spell checker before (installed the .xpi), but I couldn't figure out how to actually use it (were the UI bits removed?)
:(
Only comment so far on the latest build: it polls all of the news groups and servers in my Netscape profile when the news/mail client starts. This is bad as I have a load of crap in there, and a load that are only accessible from when I switch internet connections. I have to click cancel on a lot of dialogs before I can get going
Yep - it's pretty slow on my C64 as well.
Well lets look at the system requirements, which as we all know are very conservative
:)
Windows
* Intel Pentium-class 233 MHz (or faster)
* 64 MB RAM
* 26 MB of free hard disk space
Linux
* Intel Pentium-class 233 MHz (or faster)
* 64 MB of RAM
* 26 MB of free hard disk space
Since you probably can't upgrade your processor on your board maybe you should try and bump your RAM to 128MB or so? That would definitely help out. Otherwise I recommend you give Opera a shot. It's right up your alley and it works on Linux and Windows
JOhn
Campaign for Liberty
9.7 (two months)
9.8 (six months)
9.9 (one year)
9.99 (two years)
9.999 (five years)
9.9999 (nine years)
9.99999 (thirty-seven years)
9.999999 (nine hundred and twenty-eight years)
(No offense meant to the Mozilla team - the last time I poked at it, it looked like a nicely developing and nifty browser).
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
There's also a similar project for Mac OS X, qbati, which seems to be just getting underway.
Interesting line from export restrictions, ...". And we all know that those areas will be non-exsistant :)
"This source code is subject to the U.S. Export Administration Regulations and other U.S. law, and may not be exported or re-exported to certain countries (currently Afghanistan (Taliban controlled areas)
Winter 2010: With Glowing Hearts
My main complaint was, through a thin veil of sarcasm: "If Opera can run so snappy and fast, why not Mozilla?"
:)
I use opera, and Netscape 4.78, and they do just fine on my "C64-like" hardware.
If you have the best hardware around, then Mozilla works snappy, which is all well and good, but deep down inside developers should be worried about how many cycles are being wasted.
But I guess stuff like that deserves Score 0: Troll
"Look at me, I invented the stove!" -- Ben Franklin
Though I haven't checked 6.0 yet. If the Mozilla team can straighten out some of the plug in problems (for example, it takes some voodoo before java actually works), or at least come up with a definitive install procedure, we'll be rockin'. The browser is solid, but I don't want to have to be asked what MIME type an m3u file (winamp playlist) is. Heck, I don't actually know! I'm so used to it being taken care of. This kind of "plays nice with others" is something we take for granted - even if it's fake in Bill Gates' case!
http://www.seas.upenn.edu:8080/%7Ezakharin/Softwar e/Dawn.html
Works up to 0.9.3, so it should work...
"If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
"For milestones 0.9.7 and 0.9.8, the focus
is on performace enhancingment, and stability
of the Mail/News end of the suite."
You mean to say all these previous milestones
focussed on making Mozilla slow, buggy and
unstable at the Mail/News end?
Gosh, I would never have guessed!!
-Shaunak.
...if they got rid of the pathetic crash error that happens whenever one uses the tab key to jump from one data field to the next?
.95 right now, and had to restart Mozilla as well as restart the .96 download due to that bug.
Man, that bug makes me so angry. I'm using
Idea wishlist:
I'm a very busy person who does some good for the community already in his free time, so don't ask me to implement these features. I just don't have the time.
Perhaps this would be a good time to ask... does anyone know of a proxy that allows you to rewrite packets on the fly? I think the web's got to the point where I want to start overriding some HTML arbitrarily. I know regular expressions, so some sort of regex interpreter would be quite handy.
hmm... perhaps it's something with your system? I duel boot between linux (suse 7.3 running 2.4.9 at the moment) and Windows (Win2K AS) on a dual PII 450 with 256Mb of RAM. Windows has a few hundred meg of swap defined (and uses it) Linux has 64Mb of swap defined and hardly ever touches it. I run the nightly windows builds and my own builds on linux (updated every few days on each) and for me the two are very nearly at parity... actually I'd say Linux is a bit more responsive than windows.
The other posibility is that you are getting a mix of debug and production mixes? On linux my debug build is quite pokey, but the -O3 no debug, optimize it all builds absolutely FLY and keep getting better!
Way to go Moz!
Thank God (or Gates) that Microsoft eventually ported IE to Solaris and HP-UX and gave UNIX users (as in real UNIX, of course, not ia32-optimized open-source garbage) hope for the future.
And Mozilla (NS6) is somehow even worse! Conclusive proof that open-source doesn't work.(TM) I didn't think it was possible to build a slower memory hog than 4.x, but never underestimate the mediocrity of Cheap Software, boys. Does 0.9.6 still use as much memory as five 4.x instances combined, and take six times as long to initially load? Please, someone explain to me how it is possible that fucking IE5.0 is the fastest, smallest, most standards-complaint browser on my Solaris boxes. I mean, that's just sad -- Microsoft, the bloatware behemoth with zero track record on modern UNIX is able to create a better browser than the "hackers" (pronounced "wannabes") in the Cheap Software "community?"
Mozilla development is unprofessional. Why bother implementing a mail/news client, when Mozilla doesn't correctly or completely implement CSS2, a standard from fucking 1998? We need a sense of priorities hear, boys -- it's a fucking web browser, people would much rather have an open-source browser that works (and I define "works" as "correctly implements all applicable modern W3C standards, including but not limited to XHTML1.0/1.1 and CSS2 and the latest DOM spec") instead of YASOHBWNA (Yet Anoter Suite of Half-finished Bloated Slow Netscape Applications). Maybe someone should open-source a book on project management and help these untalented Cheap Software fucktards out. Among employed software developers, there are a set of common practices -- such as determining and codifying user requirements, design specifications, and frequent reevaluation of project goals -- that help avoid these problems. I don't know, is it that Netscape has the "Fecal Midas touch" (everything it touches turns to shit), or is it that Mozilla is being "developed" by freshman CS (*snicker*) and IT (*snicker*snicker*) students between jacking off to Pokémon porn and pirating copyrighted music? I mean, that's what Cheap Software is, right?
You make me sick. How do you ever expect to attract us Real Developers(TM) to your lamer hobby projects when you can't even understand the basics of software design? When you don't understand the concept of sacrifice, that Cheap Software applications shouldn't include every possible feature that every developer wants? My guess is that Mozilla is a hacked-together dog because the project "leaders" (if they exist) don't know how to say "no." No, Bob, we aren't going to work on a mail client until the browser works. No, Sue, we don't need skins until we have a good basic product. No, Dave, there is no fucking reason to implement custom widgets.
I certainly hope that all of you Mozilla "developers" note your involvement in this project prominently on your resumé, so that it will be easy to identify you and deny you all possibility for employment as professionals. I curse you all!
--
I like to watch.
Doh!! 0.9.5 just got into Debian Woody.
on every first page visit to a site it requests favicon.ico
I wonder how long until all the stats programmers out there figure out why bookmarked visits spiked in December?
Hammer of Truth
...ahem...
Those who write like karma-whores,
Get (+1) on karma scores.
Those who read those words of whit,
Reply to it with posts of shit.
Thank you.
If you want better tabbability, switch to Galeon.
Galeon kicks ass. Really, really kicks ass. Try it.
Pornzilla's goal is to turn Mozilla into a great porn browser. I started the project because I felt some important bugs were being neglected by Netscape engineers, even though they do a very good job with other bugs. (Are they not allowed to look at porn while at work?).
The web site includes several modifications to Mozilla that make it better suited for porn browsing and a list of bugs and feature requests related to porn surfing. If you have any other bug numbers or ideas for modifications, please tell me.
(Sorry for the duplicate message. I guess using "preview" before posting isn't a good idea when you've temporarily disabled cookies.)
I used to use moz on windows (2k as it happens) as a kind of token bit of browser resistance, now I use it beacause it's just good, especially the tabs. Great work from the whole mozilla team.
-- "[The] NSA can eat shit and die until they stop listening to my phone calls" - TastyWheat
Can't comment yet as I'm just downloading now, but in the meantime: where have the themes gone? Whenever I try to download others, I'm met with a 'page not found' error. Is this because Mozilla is moving faster than the theme developers can handle? Is there actually more choice than 'classic' and 'modern'? Not that these aren't good themes anyway. I'm just wondering...
Keep up the good work! (Oh and fix that bloody 'print selection' bug.)
But I'm curious as to why the connection to the ftp server was so solid and fast: is it a great example of load balancing ftp?, a sign that people are happy with pre-0.9.6 versions and aren't rushing to upgrade?, or is it (*gulp*) that people aren't interested in Mozilla anymore?
I'm not anti-Mozilla at all. I'm using it for browsing, email, IRC, etc. There are things I like about Konqueror, but I depend on Mozilla. Even my biggest "Internet Explorer"-only client is asking about recasting IE-specific development in Moz-compatible terms. Its just that the server is so fast it doesn't feel like the days of M15 - M18 when I had to fight for a connection...
As an aside: it's perplexing to observe MSFT dropping the ball on browser development. They've got the market wrapped up, but they don't seem to have capitalized on this lead (except the recent MSN fiasco). Or perhaps I'm not giving proper credit to Mozilla developers for pressing ahead with features and usefulness... With the licensing pain with MSFT and the maturation of Mozilla+{Gnome|KDE}+Linux it's getting more and more palpable to switch the enterprise away from the child-settlers.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
for a quick and reasonable-on-mem-usage browser, please see skipstone. it uses the mozilla-embedded lib for page rendoring, and it doesn't come with all the html editor / mail / news crap.
see ports/www/skipstone for FreeBSD users
Immediately after downloading the latest nightly, I visit Netscape's German sige and click on the latest Stripshow gallery. Have to make sure those characters display right. Or something. :)
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Wow, I can use Alt-BackArrow on cnn.com now, what a Joy! Hurry and upgrade...
*weeping with joy* you guys... seriously. i love you guys.
If Opera can run so snappy and fast, why not Mozilla?
Because Opera can't do what Mozilla can do. Opera handles common HTML and CSS just fine, but if you're pushing your web design further, Opera's rendering engine falls apart.
I use translucent PNG images on my web page, and Mozilla does alpha-blending beautifully. Opera, on the other hand, can't even handle transparency, let alone alpha-blending. Opera also can't switch style sheets through DOM or the UI. It cannot install components on the fly. The list goes on...
Just my $.02 on why Mozilla is better:
- Mozilla is Open Source
Zealots aside, why is this better? Have you modified any of the source code? Have you contributed? Have you searched through it to make sure there are no back doors that mail out your keystrokes? Or are you karma whoring?
- Mozilla won't accept activeX or other such nonsense
Which limit's its use on heavily scripted, harmless, usefull sites. True, it saves you from mailicious porn webmasters who want to install their dialer programs, but that's not a problem if you know how to set up your internet security zones on IE.
- You can disable Mozilla's JS window.open()
A nice feature, true, but what happens when you go to click on a "help" icon and it can't open a new window?
- Mozilla has tabbled browsing
Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to switch between browser windows...
- Mozilla is standards compliant
Which is again nice, but means nothing if developers dont make their sites for standards, which they dont
- Mozilla doesn't redirect you to MSN (or AOL for that matter) and spill your privacy for all to see
Nor does IE, if you configure it correctly.
- Mozilla has a development team that cares about the end product
More ramblings from a zealot. I'm sure the IE programmers care about IE. They just dont feel the need to sit around and pat each other on the back in public message boards.
- Mozilla has site-specific image and cookie management
Internet privacy zones. From your top menu in IE6: tools -> internet options -> privacy -> click the edit button. Yep, it works in IE on a site by site basis.
- Mozilla is stable (close to 100%) and won't bring down the OS when it crashes
Just like IE6 (which hasnt ever crashed on me, even though I use it roughly 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for the past few months)
So.... yea, you like mozilla. that's cool. use what you like.... just realize that every one of my arguments is absolutely true, meaning IE is "better and better" too...
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Just upgraded to 0.96, and now I see that Slashdot articles with large number of responses crash mozila (I already sent in reports with that crash feedback thingy). This is Win98 , celeron 366 with 512M of ram.
Only seems to happen on articles with a large number of responses (I'm a moderator and I'm trying to browse at -1 , but I can't).
Constantly crashes on Geek Gift Ideas 2001 and Microsoft Would Settle For The Children
I just uninstalled and reinstalled mozilla, and the crashes still happen.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Microsoft's answer to this failing was to make threading as fast as possible, and to push multithreaded programming as a hack around a fundemental OS problem.
Many OS purists think that using multiple processes is a hack around understanding multithreaded programming especially since traditionally there is a context/address switch cost from process to process versus when using different threads. Linux merely legitimizes this hack by implementing the clone system call and copy on write semantics for pages shared amongst processes which makes the worst problems with using multiple processes instead of multiple threads dissappear.
So, now Linux has both faster processes and threads, but thread performance still sucks.
This statement puzzles me greatly. How can Linux threads be faster yet their performance still sucks? Faster than what then?
mostly to support implementing multithreading in userspace (ick).
Huh? How is userland programs being able to create multiple threads a bad idea? Should creating multiple processes the only way to handle multiple tasks at once in an application?
So, the moral of the story is that Linux has a much better core, but seeing that the Linux community actually cares about standards, performance isn't quite up to snuff.
This statement implies that Linux has POSIX compliant threads which the last time I checked is not true especially since the primary kernel hackers (Alan Cox, Linus, etc) are against it. They specifically had issues with the inconsistent way signal handling is suposed to be implemented amongst threads in the same process if memory serves me correctly.
Now you can visually scan directories -- for that perfect Akira Fubuki cumshot, Anna Nicole Smith softcore clip, or nasty nekkid ebony hoe playing with vegetables -- simply by using the arrow keys, Return, and Backspace.
In order to enjoy a comparable masturbation experience with Linux, you must use a combination of Electric Eyes (for thumbnail browsing) and Netscape (for image viewing). Oftentimes, you will even have to use both hands to get the process started -- very inconvenient. Add in the fact that UNIX-like systems don't function very well with widespread use of spaces in directory names, and you have all the makings of an extremely poor monkey spanking.
Hey, let's get a MacOS user in on this. TRoLLaXoR, does MacOS provide easy thumbnail image navigation like Windows?
--
I like to watch.
Heh, me too. Friends and family think I'm a freak. They might be right. Now I can say "Hey, there are at least two other people that read /. that do the same thing". Not sure of what benefit that is though...
Bleh!
This is not meant as a Troll. If you are a Windows user, checkout the latest beta from Opera, it rocks. Choice of Single/Multiple document interface,new skins, and mouse gestures too! Still retains fastest browser credits. Give it a try.
I have tried to go over to mozilla as part of my slow conversion from Win to Linux. Thought it might be a good place to start.
When I installed Mozilla at 0.9.5 I was impressed. This app has come a loong way!
However, I have a couple of hickups, which someone might be able to help me with
- Load time Compared to IE, which takes 1-2 secs to load, Mozilla take around 8 secs to load. Not that much extra, but when my short term memory is 5 seconds, I most often choose to load IE, so I don't forget what I wanted to check out.
- Shortcuts I don't know who fucked up the shortcuts, but I must use alt-d over 100 times a day in IE, the shortcut that brings you to the address bar. I had a (not too investigative) look at the Mozilla help, and couldn't find any info on shortcuts, which brings me to
- Help You can't search the help! Hello.
- Search My seconds favorite feature in any program is text search, and I have found the search in Mozilla to be buggy (forgetting last search word and settings, needing to 5 click before it starts, not finding text which is there)
The most important to me is load time. I just don't see myself, only using Mozilla until load time is decreased. But hey, good luck to the dev team, I will hang in there.
-Kraft
Live and let live
konqueror
I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
Let's get him!!!!
I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
Mozillas codebase currently is IE 6.0 level in terms of features quality, and speed.
It took Microsoft 6-7 years to get to this point, It took Mozilla 4 years.
4 Years is pretty good.
Opera is about 3 years behind Mozilla so dont even mention Opera. Opera isnt nearly as powerful, Opera is a light weight browser thats nothing special, its something anyone could have written up in a year or two.
Mozilla on the other hand has alot more features and the only browser to compete with it feature for feature is IE, currently Mozilla supports more standards, has better security and is more stable than IE 6.0 making Mozilla more complete.
When IE 7.0 releases, it will essentially be updated to be more secure, support more standards and basically be more like Mozilla.
As far as Mozilla 2.0, Mozilla has the base done, the base what took 4 years, once the base is done all they have to do for 2.0 is add a few new features most likely to support new standards, optimize it for speed to make sure its faster than IE and Opera, fix bugs so it never crashes, and then allow Netscape and AOL to intergrate ICQ, AOLIM, Winamp and so on into it in a way that doesnt make it seem overwelming.
Right now AOL isnt properly intergrated, but once it is, i see it being very useful, more useful than email for sure.
And ICQ intergration would be good too.
From there intergrate netscape into AOLs software suite.
Now while Microsoft fixes all their bugs and security, Mozilla will be adding new features.
If Mozilla developes at the pace it is right now, it will be about 2 -3 years ahead in development of Microsoft when 2.0 comes out.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Before you say something is slow, turn on the features!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
The thing that sucks most about mozilla is that they didnt even implement those features which are in ancient Netscape 4.x. Examples of nice features in 4.x but missing in mozilla are: saving HTML pages as plaintext, opening multiple mailnews windows easily, an option for quoting the original mail/news article in a reply and others. This will piss off many users who have used (and often still do use) 4.x.
Its beyond me why netscape put so much effort in toy features like themes instead of concentrating on productivity and at least reimplementing what was already there.
Dont get me wrong, there are many improvements, more stability, other nice features too. But I bet serious users would have been hapy without themes, favicon and other toys if the got their old features instead.
not that funny actually, i use Mozzila on my XP box exlusivly for porn.. but it's not because i feel moz is well suited for it, but rather for privacy. I've found it way to hard to cover your tracks with IE. i mean think about it..
Clear history: too suspecius, alt: set for 0 day, still keeps 1 day, arg..
Clear Last day history: tedeius, and don't clear auto-complete address bar stuff
and don't forget the cookies and browser cache.
With mozilla i just load it up and close it down, no one knows i have it installed.
What i want is a secret 'porn' button that i can press and IE won't record JACK nothing nada about whats going on.
btw, to keep on topic, the last build of moz for windows wasn't that great. from the way i see it isn't just like netscape 4x, slow and clunky and i'll be dammed thats all fixed by 1.0.
-Jon
this is my sig.
I like OmniWeb (on Mac OS X), though I know it isn't open source (too bad! I wish it were..) It's fast, very IE compatible, and just plain good. Lots of nice options like no popup's on load, that kind of thing. It costs money but they let you use it for free hoping that guilt will convince you to pay for it, as it did for me. Also the integration is very, very good on Mac OS X. Much, much, much faster than Mozilla and even faster than IE.
Erik
Also well suited to browsing with children beleive it or not. When you mistype a URL 600 hard core porn windows don't pop up in you and your childs face.
It seems even with this release you still have to download netscape (so that it can process the xpi) to install java. Quite annoying.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
Note that I would increase that Windows memory requirement for Win2000 and XP.
(these OSes use more memory by default, less mem for apps)
Use the turbo feature, Mozilla loads faster than IE.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
shouldn't that be 10 and 10 (binary)?
When i change my font settings, it should save damnit!!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I concur.
I'm useing Windows (So shoot me)since all programmes I need are for that platform. I started using it because I din't want to use M$IE and I found this one to have (in my opinion) the nicest interface. It started out to be pretty slow, even slower than M$IE. But it just started to get better and better. With 0.93 it even rivalled IE.
I'm curious if they can keep this pace of improvement up. Pity it doesn't load the slashdot page when it's not the first page loaded.
Now maybe we will be able to export our address books (without 3rd party software, thanks dawn)
now.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Pentium-120mhz? I just bought a P2-266mhz motherboard w/ integrated audio and video and 64mb PC100 mem for $25. Upgraded my Linux PC from a P1-166 to something of reasonable speed. But yeah, I know, upgrades tend to have hidden costs. Anything that can't boot from CD I don't want to use (no more @!$#ing floppy drives!)
Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to switch between browser windows...
Here's where your post fails for the first time... It pretty much shows that you're only doing PR when you just throw out something as lovely as this.
1. Why does it make alt+tab slower? I sure hadn't noticed that.
2. You're perfectly allowed to use new browser windows instead if you want.
- Mozilla doesn't redirect you to MSN (or AOL for that matter) and spill your privacy for all to see
Nor does IE, if you configure it correctly.
That's a bit besides the point. A good program should be secure by default. Almost any program can be secured by "configuring it correctly". This implies that it's secure for you and me, but not for Joe and Jane Normaluser.
It sounds like typical Microsoft-ish to me:h off. It's in File->Options->(click the lower right corner)->My Pictures->Settings->Fonts'
'- Oh, but you have to turn the "we-have-full-control-of-your-private-data"-switc
A browser is one of the programs where it's most important that the user's privacy is protected, from the beginning, for all users, not just for the know-how powerusers.
Tomorrow will be cancelled due to lack of interest
>>- Mozilla has tabbled browsing
>Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to >switch between browser windows...
Agreed 100% Tab browsing is just overhyped UI bloat. For many people it's just a workaround for crappy new-window performance
- You can disable Mozilla's JS window.open()
A nice feature, true, but what happens when you go to click on a "help" icon and it can't open a new window?
The mozilla anti-popup feature disables popups on window open, page load, and window close (and timers). So obnoxious auto-pops don't happen, but e.g. The Onion's horoscopes still work.
Sumner
rage, rage against the dying of the light
Yup, youre right. Opera has some issues, but i would love to see its download management in Mozilla...
Lispy
Since Im at work i wont install the new release right now. Is it gone in 9.6 or maybe you just didnt find it?
The Tab Feature rocks btw. I really like it a lot, only thing that got me worried was reading it was only an "experimental" Feature wich might not make it into 1.0.
Lispy
- Mozilla is Open Source
Zealots aside, why is this better?
It's there if it's needed or wanted, and can't be taken away.
- Mozilla won't accept activeX or other such nonsense
Which limit's its use on heavily scripted, harmless, usefull sites.
I honestly don't know of any sites that are heavily scripted while remaining both harmless and useful.
- Mozilla has tabbled browsing
Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to switch between browser windows...
Then use windowed browsing. It didn't go anywhere.
- Mozilla doesn't redirect you to MSN (or AOL for that matter) and spill your privacy for all to see
Nor does IE, if you configure it correctly.
I never found an option to prevent getting passed off to MS on a DNS lookup failure, but then I almost never touch IE outside of HTML testing purposes.
- Mozilla has a development team that cares about the end product
More ramblings from a zealot. I'm sure the IE programmers care about IE. They just dont feel the need to sit around and pat each other on the back in public message boards.
I'm sure the IE developers pat each other on the back all the time, but you won't see it since they don't have public mailing lists.
- Mozilla has site-specific image and cookie management
Internet privacy zones. From your top menu in IE6: tools -> internet options -> privacy -> click the edit button. Yep, it works in IE on a site by site basis.
That it does, though personally I prefer the format of Mozilla's privacy tools. Probably a familiarity thing.
- Mozilla is stable (close to 100%) and won't bring down the OS when it crashes
Just like IE6 (which hasnt ever crashed on me, even though I use it roughly 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for the past few months)
Last time I used IE (5.5) it crashed several times a day (usually on malformed javascript or activex), taking the whole OS with it half the time. I haven't tried IE6 though.
I've been using the Mozilla nightlies, and I haven't had a crash since before the summer. Some really funky regressions like the expando url bar... but no crashes.
I put my browsers through HTML/Java/Flash/script hell though, so YMMV.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
I can answer that question with a firm NO. For every bug they fix, another pops up to replace it. I know this as I've been a major bug submitter since M8. While they are solving the bugs that cause major problems (and replacing them with many minor bugs) they are not cleaning up the code, making it more proper, portable, or reliable.
Netscape version 0.x-4.x were very simple, and effective. They all just got the HTML, and rendered it as the page said so.
With Mozilla, they are really reverse engineering open web standards. They go to a web page, impliment the code in mozilla that allows it to render the page properly, then move on to the next web page. In other words, instead of making a simple engine that handles the code in a systematic way, they will need to look at every different design possible in order to get mozilla to work properly with them all. This is obvioiusly the wrong way to do things. Nobody in the Mozilla crew wants to hear the fact that they are doing things ass-backwards and should look at other ways to do the same thing. They've got code, and just want to continue adding more work arounds till the code takes multiple Gigs of RAM, eats CPU power like candy, and bloats out of control.
I may use it to find bugs and submit many many bug reports, but I prefer not to use Mozilla.
On Windows, I stick with Netscape 4.x, on Mac I use iCab, and on Unix... Well, I've got high hopes for dillo but will be using Netscape 4.x on Unix until dillo gets better.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
methink NS3 would be better for you.. or perhaps Opera?
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
No, I don't like this either. The default install should basicly not install any server software at all, or at least turn it all off.
Thats one of the points where all freebsd and linux fail in the desktop-aim, mainly. Of course it's more important to know how to secure something; however, I don't expect Joe Normaluser to use bind, apache or sendmail... but I do expect him to use a browser. And I don't think you should have to take a 2-day beginner course to be able to browse the web safely.
Tomorrow will be cancelled due to lack of interest
The subject line says it all! I have a friend who is IE crazy and didn't like Mozilla (well.. I showed him some early builds). He's becoming more and more impressed with Mozilla and when he saw the tabs he freaked (in a good way)! He said that a tabbed interface is one thing Microsoft can learn from Mozilla (he even hopes they implement tabs in IE). He's a UI and Windows freak, so this says a lot.
And if you really don't like tabs.. and love having hundreds on windows in your taskbar: d-o n-o-t u-s-e t-h-e-m!
Here are a couple of build options that I frequently use in my .mozconfig when building mozilla to keep it running extreemely well also cutting alot of the cruft out.
These build options are for all the people that are complaining about shoddy mozilla performance under linux and people that would like to have a look at some really new features.
ac_add_options --with-extensions=all
Enables such things as the Chatzilla IRC client and the dom inspector(which I think is extreemely neat for debugging and viewing dynamicly changing html object model) also contains some very experimental things such as xmlterm.
ac_add_options --enable-mathml
Very neat standard for displaying math of all types and sizes in xml.
ac_add_options --enable-crypto
Great option, about a year ago this option wasnt even possible due to netscape not realeasing it's code due to US laws afaik. Now everyone that want to compile the lizard can get ssl support built right into the browser.
ac_add_options --enable-optimize="-O3 -march=i686 -mcpu=i686"
The main optimization part. This option has the biggest leaverage affect on the actual quickness of the browsre itself.
ac_add_options --disable-tests
Get rid of the unneccesary tests.
ac_add_options --disable-debug
We don't need any debuging symbols in th build if where not a developer do we.
ac_add_options --disable-shared
ac_add_options --enable-static
A nice new enhancement of the moz build system which links all of the modules in statically, im experiencing a big speed increase and a decrease of startup times with this option probably because it doesnt need to read each individual shared object from the hard disk.
You forgot to itemize the good XML-CSS-rendering, Mozilla or Galeon are pretty close to w3-standards. I saw some XML documents which were not correctly rendered in IE or Opera. I nearly want to call Mozilla not only browser, but also HTML/CSS/XML-Validator:-) It helps to find bugs in page code!
Oh, come on...you prefer a buggy Netscape 6.0 Release just because its got a "final" Number in its name? I dont think so...
Lispy
Check out http://optimoz.mozdev.org/gestures/! Installs painlessly and works well -- it might be integrated into the main Mozilla package one day. So there!
Close, but no cigar. Opera 6.0 has perfect support for PNG alpha transparency. Opera 6.0 beta 1 for Windows was released a week ago, and Opera 6.0 for Linux is just around the corner.
"Because Opera can't do what Mozilla can do"
This is the worst argument of all. To counter it, one can simply say that "Mozilla can't do what Opera can do". Why can't we all just accept that Opera and Mozilla are two different browsers? Both of them are damn good at what they do. Comparing Mozilla and Opera is like comparing apples and oranges.
If anything, Mozilla and Opera users should unite, since they all share the same ideas about open standards and a web accessible to everyone.
At least, with two great browsers like Opera and Mozilla out there, users have a choice! They don't have to use Microsoft's inferior (my opinion only, not stated as a fact*) product. Both Opera and Mozilla are great browsers - why fight over it? Some like Opera, other like Mozilla.
Opera still has mouse gestures (Mozilla's still aren't really comparable), keyboard shortcuts for everything, and now even has the choice between MDI and SDI, where SDI is a lot more powerful than any other browser.
Yes, Opera lacks the "modularity" of Mozilla and other things, but as I've said, Mozilla lacks a lot of what Opera has. But who cares? Use the browser which best suits your needs.
To see that Opera can actually be used for advanced HTML, CSS and JavaScript, have a look at this gem:
http://www.cross-browser.com/
You never thought those things were possible in Opera, did you?
*) To explain why I think IE is inferior: One example is that it fails to provide the user with basic functionality. IE appears to be created to allow the web page author to control where the user goes (much in Microsoft's tradition), while Mozilla and Opera both allow the user to control more of their surfing. IE just fails in such basic areas, so for me, it is an inferior product. There are other things as well (such as terribly buggy CSS and XHTML support), but I think I'll stop now, because this is very much off-topic.
Clever signature text goes here.
Besides, the Mac has been able to display thumbnails as the icons for picture files for a long time. Once again, the Mac is years ahead of the Windows platform!
Wank different!
Zealots aside, why is this better? Have you modified any of the source code? Have you contributed? Have you searched through it to make sure there are no back doors that mail out your keystrokes? Or are you karma whoring?
....
Does IE even give you that option at all? Can you directly e-mail any of the IE developers? Were the IE developers a diverse team from multiple companies and institutions?
Which limit's its use on heavily scripted, harmless, usefull sites. True, it saves you from mailicious porn webmasters who want to install their dialer programs, but that's not a problem if you know how to set up your internet security zones on IE.
Can your mother do that? Should your mother have to do that, just to be able to surf the web without having crap installed without her even being aware? This is assuming your mother looks at porn sites; substitute dad/brother/yourself as necessary...
A nice feature, true, but what happens when you go to click on a "help" icon and it can't open a new window?
The UI for turning the feature on and off at will hasn't been implemented in Mozilla that I know of, but Galeon currently allows for this. I think it's also possible to selectively allow and disallow popups from certain sites.
Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to switch between browser windows...
'Course, there are those who find it more convenient to have one window with multiple tabs, than several windows to flip between. Ever since Galeon picked up tabbed browsing, I haven't gone back; just saves desktop space, looks cleaner, and doesn't give that much of a performance hit. At least with Mozilla, the option exists, and works rather well.
Which is again nice, but means nothing if developers dont make their sites for standards, which they dont
Nice to see you speak for all web developers.
Nor does IE, if you configure it correctly.
Again, can your mother do that, and should she have to just to be able to safely surf the web? Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the inevitable process of upgrading and patching bugs here; I'm talking about closing potential privacy and security holes deliberately set as defaults by the browser manufacturer.
More ramblings from a zealot. I'm sure the IE programmers care about IE. They just dont feel the need to sit around and pat each other on the back in public message boards.
No, they just have MS Marketing to whip up press releases and hype it as the Next Big Thing. Seriously, do you think the developers spend their time in the netscape.mozilla.* and Bugzilla boards holding public circle jerks?
Internet privacy zones. From your top menu in IE6: tools -> internet options -> privacy -> click the edit button. Yep, it works in IE on a site by site basis.
In short, they're about equal, and the Mozilla team doesn't have the need to give it the wankeriffic term of "privacy zones" or whatnot. Just cookie management and image management. Works damn well, too.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Which limit's its use on heavily scripted, harmless, usefull sites. True, it saves you from mailicious porn webmasters who want to install their dialer programs, but that's not a problem if you know how to set up your internet security zones on IE.
The problem is that ActiveX is a proprietary Microsoft technology, and it has a proven track record of insecurity. Don't expect Joe Schmoe who just got his first PC to understand anything of what's going on. He'll go on surfing anywhere, and he will be at the mercy of the webmaster and Microsoft.
Sadly, Microsoft have failed to take security into consideration when creating their developer-friendly, yet user-unfrienly technologies.
ActiveX is supposed to make things easier to the user, but just ends up making things worse than ever, since security is near non-existant, unless you are a veteran, and since Microsft forcing their proprietary, insecure technologies on webmasters means that alternative, better software (browsers) will be locked out.
"- You can disable Mozilla's JS window.open()
A nice feature, true, but what happens when you go to click on a "help" icon and it can't open a new window?"
You can disable it for onLoad() and onUnLoad(), which pretty much avoids popup-spam, while still allowing user initiated popups.
"- Mozilla is standards compliant ....
Which is again nice, but means nothing if developers dont make their sites for standards, which they dont
That kind of depends on what kind of sites you visit. You are also underestimating people if you think no one knows about open standards. You obviously haven't been paying attention lately. For example, the MSN.com fiasco meant that millions of people learned about alternative browsers like Mozilla and Opera. People who previously had no idea there was something outside Microsoft land opened their eyes.
You see, when you dominate a market like Microsoft does now, the only way is down. Microsoft cannot increase their market share, because it is based on ignorance. As more and more people learn the truth about what is going on, Microsoft will slowly start losing its dominance of the browser/Internet market.
Clever signature text goes here.
It uses the Mozilla-engine, so it renders excactly the same, and uses the mozilla-plugin-system etc.
It takes care of a few things for Mozilla:
Very odd place to refer people to for KDE themes. The place to go is currently KDE-Look.org.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Damned wanker. All salami-slapping, no brains.
Nautilus is the best thing on Linux. It's all that windows wanted to make. I'm not sure if it thumbmails movies, but it sure thumbnails pictures.
Linux is made by geeks. Geeks also look at porn and masturbate. Why would our technical solution be technically inferior to Microsofts?
Stop the brainwash
The lack of ActiveX is the only stumbling block to me using this on our Order Processing intranet site, sure I have used HTML for the part the outside world sees But I have spent many months creating an extremely powerful order entry grid for my purposes.
And dont tell me to use Java, because the rest of the site is in Java it just was not fast enough for this purpose.
If mozilla ever gets ActiveX its replacing IE 5.5 on all machines here thats for sure.
IEs 5.5 and 6 both crash greater than 6 times more than Mozilla on every computer I've used in the past 6 months. That's not an overstatement at all.
These numbers are obtained running on a clean install of NT4 and also on Windows2000 on a completely different computer.
This version of Moz on Linux finally draws up sites like CNN legibly. The text in small fonts can be read. Now I don't feel like a second class citizen. Yipee. (I have RedHat 7.2 with Windows 95 TrueType fonts added.)
Years ago, netscape source became available. I thought "great, now netscape split up into separate executables (browser, mail, news, html editor, all sharing dynamic libraries". This never happened. Instead many more features and applications have been assimilated into this one package.
I wish that the "mozilla is dead" comment were true. Unfortunatly, the majority hope and demand will prop it up for an enternity.
Konqueror is very good, however it lacks one feature that made me switch to Mozilla last week:
... Now that's awesome.
The ability to disable pop-up windows on page load, page close or timer events.
If you disable window.open entirely, you get fucked on sites like Cnn.com where some links open tiny windows to display, say, photos or infographics.
Also there's the "tab" feature
Last, I found Konq still has a nasty memory leak, the process grows to hundreds of MB after a couple days; while Mozilla doesn't seem to leak significant memory so far.
In order to enjoy a comparable masturbation experience with Linux, you must use a combination of Electric Eyes (for thumbnail browsing) and Netscape (for image viewing). Oftentimes, you will even have to use both hands to get the process started -- very inconvenient. Add in the fact that UNIX-like systems don't function very well with widespread use of spaces in directory names, and you have all the makings of an extremely poor monkey spanking.
Bah. Just use Nautilus -- it does everything that IE can do with the thumbnailing and whatnot, and it automagically scales those overhuge images down. Before I used nautilus, I'd end up with these huge images that I had to scale down. Not that the detail was bad sometimes, but I need to see every part of the picture to get off. In fact, I like to take advantage of the fact that my ReiserFS partition for pr0n supports many more characters in filename than an NTFS partition. Linux clearly is the superior pr0n OS.
Join the Slashcott! Stay away entirely Feb 10 thru Feb 17! Close all tabs to prevent autorefresh!
you missed my point ... i was simply saying that there are LOTS of stupid default installs, and IE's privacy-leaking-go-to-msn-on-404-errors is the least of the problems.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
the only time ie6 has ever crashed on this win2k box is after installing the ws_ftp "browser plugin" ... ever since then, it crashes on ftp sites. Other than that, no bugs or crashes at all.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Opera and Konq also have this nice feature.
I'm hoping Moz steps up to that plate soon....
that not all users use RPM or have access to CVS ? It's not the first time they release src.rpm and not tar.[bz2|gz]. Is it so hard to 'make dist' ?
Hm? I downloaded a tar.gz:ed 0.9.6for Linux just a few hours ago from the Mozilla site. The source seems also be available in tar.gz:ed form.
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
How does this let me block images from particular sites?
- Mozilla is Open Source
Zealots aside, why is this better? Have you modified any of the source code? Have you contributed?
Yes, and yes. When you hit a bug you can go hunting - it came in between this and that date, and so check the CVS logs, and then to the individual checkins.
Not just that, but the bug lists and feature lists are nearly all public too - so you can see how a bug is progressing, and see when/if it's likely to be addressed. And if it's not, you can talk to the responsible people and make a case for it to be fixed. This is _absolutely_ _completely_ impossible to do with MS. For all MS's bitching about people releasing security exploits, it still seems to be the only way to actually get them to fix them.
I though I was the only one with this strange habit. We need a name for this compulsive behavior. "Selectivitis?"
What i want is a secret 'porn' button that i can press
There is one. But its secret.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Again, can your mother do that
;-).
Was getting a little tired of this argument, so just thought I'd stick my oar in. My mother can't install Linux, so maybe we should dump that as well?
Or could it be that maybe we shouldn't have to design for the lowest common denominator - i.e. your momma
Agreed. But if you look at the discussion as in "mozilla doesnt do this, but IE does", then I would say that mozilla gets a point there... regardless of the other software examples you could figure out.
Tomorrow will be cancelled due to lack of interest
holy shit:
when reading your post I just selected the word "selectivitis"...
It seems it's even contagious...
as the wise men say; Always store your pr0n on journaling FS.
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
If you middle click on a tab, that will close it also... I find it very useful.
Use the Z-modem protocol between Information Superhighway routers to compress the plaintext. ~LordOfYourPants
user_pref("capability.policy.default.Window.open", "noAccess");
which disables all Javascript popups, or you can say:
user_pref("dom.disable_open_during_load", true);
which disables opening windows on page open and close.
Both of these examples are from the excellent Mozilla Customization page.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
I use Mozilla with KDE, and haven't used Gnome for nearly a year. At the time Galeon required you to have a full Mozilla install - this was because of the licensing of some of the main Gecko components. Supposedly the licensing was changed, and word was that Galeon would no longer require a full Mozilla install because it could just ship with the few Gecko components it needed. However, I notice on the Galeon site it still requires a full Mozilla install - was the component license issue never resolved? What's up? (not a flame, just curious)
I've also got this habit. Everyone always gives me weird looks when they see me reading web pages and selecting paragraphs for no apparent reason.
Already done: Highlight the URL you want in some other application and then middle-click in a blank spot on any Mozilla page. You can even set this up to open a new tab with the tabbed browser by going to the new tab preferences under 'Navigator'.
Not knowing how to do that has been my number one complaint about Mozilla lately. Thanks!
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
This has puzzled me... Why are people raving about tabbed interfaces, while at the same time ridiculing MDI? Aren't they, for all practical purposes, the same thing?
I am running the RedHat 7.* RPMS. There actually IS an (X) to close tabs. It is at the right end of the TAB bar. It closes the active tab.
To configure tab browsing:
Edit -> Preferences -> Navigator -> Tabbed browsing
It is a nice feature. It is much faster to open a new tab rather than a new window.
-- Don Inodoro
I use Mozilla at work (Win) and at home (Mandrake) I have been using it since milestone 12. I think I still have the tarball around somewhere. I am very impressed with how far the browser has come. I do have the key to stopping Mozilla in its track when executed. DevX.com. Try going to this link with Mozilla and see what I mean. The animated GIF support is still kind of a pain. Other than that, When I got a reliable HTTPS connection in Mozilla, and did not have to compile PSM separately, I was as happy as a pig in slop. Don't get me wrong, I love the Moz.1 /HL111901.htm
http://www.devx.com/free/newsletters/hotlinks/200
By the way, this is not a shameless plug, I am in no way associated with devx, I just happen to use them every once in a while.
One Token Ring to Rule them All, One Search Engine to Find Them, One WAN to bring them in, and TCP/IP Bind them...
Moz for linux has to push every request and event through the Xserver which is sloooow. Windows on the other hand has no clue about user space and lets every application have direct access to all the hardware it wants. Much faster buch much less secure.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Internet Explorer 5 still runs on a 386 with Windows 3.1 and 8 MB of RAM. Slow yes, but quite usable, and think about what the Internet used to be when such machines were common... Animated Gif's were cool and high-tech.
Odd that it is MORE usable than Mozilla under Linux on a P200 w. 48MB of RAM. Unless of course you open more than one window... then the 386 just can't deal with the RAM requirements. The Mozilla machine can open at least two or three before it drives the swap too hard.
I really hope they get the memory usage down. I don't think it will be THAT important for long. RAM is cheap and systems are getting faster, but no matter how you look at it Internet Explorer or even Netscape 4 is far more lean.
I have a feeling that Mozilla is not out to compete with those browsers though... it is out to set a new standard... it just looks like a browser.
Take a look at the release notes for 0.9.6. They say that to define an icon for a page you need to use the <LINK REL="icon"> tag in your document and I don't see anything that would indicate that Mozilla will be requesting icons automatically as you have implied. To me, it sounds like Mozilla will only request an icon if the page defines the <LINK> tag (which would indicate that's what the author intended) or if the user bookmarks a page (coming in 0.9.7). That seems like a pretty non-intrusive way to handle things and doesn't sound like it will skew stats at all.
-----
Free P2P Backup, Windows & Linux
Imagine if IE change it version number to IE 0.9.7 just to compete with mozilla
-- Hasbullah bin Pit (sebol)
Sorry but after installing mozilla and doing some performance tests with dhtml, mozilla is about 70% slower than IE6 (p4 1g ram winXP) even in simple animations making practical dhtml worthless in it and flash seems more attractive by the day as this isnt dependant on a slow javascript and rendering engine, which would be a shame.
:p
Load time isnt even an issue as its so slow even when its loaded.
Javascript to plugin communication still doesnt work out of the box (contrary to what the moz site says) at least ns4 supported it.
standards support is meaningless as no-one supports them , making it more of an "ideal" than a standard.
quote : "standards are great because there are so many to choose from"
i don't think m$ has anything to fear from mozilla in its current state, at least not in this decade
I try. I am not a coder to begin with but I frequent bugzilla and have at least one non-duplicate bug submitted.
"- You can disable Mozilla's JS window.open() A nice feature, true, but what happens when you go to click on a "help" icon and it can't open a new window? "
If you disable it correctly, it only disables during page load and unload.
"Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to switch between browser windows... "
I can live with that. It's better than having 8-10 browser windows open and not knowing exactly which one you're trying to alt-tab to.
"- Mozilla doesn't redirect you to MSN (or AOL for that matter) and spill your privacy for all to see"
I have blocked off the relevant msn domain in my hosts, but you are right on this one. But IE's behaviour defaults to an insecure mode which troubles me.
"More ramblings from a zealot. I'm sure the IE programmers care about IE. They just dont feel the need to sit around and pat each other on the back in public message boards. "
Uhm. I was iffy about putting that line in there in the first place ...
"Internet privacy zones. From your top menu in IE6: tools -> internet options -> privacy -> click the edit button. Yep, it works in IE on a site by site basis."
Like I'm going to load IE6 which has the set of WinXP core technologies.
"Just like IE6 (which hasnt ever crashed on me, even though I use it roughly 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for the past few months) "
Damn man. I was about to put "you need to get a life" but that would make me no better than the flamers. If you spend > 50% of your day surfing ... well ... it sounds unhealthy to me.
"More ramblings from a zealot. " ..." I have paid. ;-) There original thread is now at zero.
Correction: "More ramblings from a karma whore
It asks for it regardless of whether is declared or not.
Hammer of Truth
Not sure why i do it, but i do it everywhere.. the desktop around icons, when i am in windows explorer i end up randomly selecting files by window... very strange... i typically start from the bottom right and goto the upper left.. which way do you people go?
-Jon
Jon Bardin
Use the turbo feature, Mozilla loads faster than IE.
What this does, by the way, is preload most of Mozilla when your system starts -- which is exactly what IE does to make it appear to start so quickly.
Repeating this will not make it true. Your statement goes squarely against what the Mozilla release notes imply. So, thinking that maybe this is undocumented or implemented improperly I decided to test it out for myself. I tested it by using Mozilla 0.9.6 to look at my local copy of Apache (http://192.168.55.111/ for me) which does not have any pages with the necessary <LINK> tag. The results? There were no requests for favicon.ico as you have stated that there should be. Please indicate where you are getting your information from that Mozilla always loads favicon.ico because this contridicts both the Mozilla release notes and direct testing. Here are all my log entries from today (note the lack of ".ico" files):
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:05 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 4716 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120" /icons/back.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 216 "http://192.168.55.111/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120" /icons/blank.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 148 "http://192.168.55.111/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120" /icons/folder.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 225 "http://192.168.55.111/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120" /icons/unknown.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 245 "http://192.168.55.111/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120" /icons/tar.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 219 "http://192.168.55.111/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120" /icons/text.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 229 "http://192.168.55.111/" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011120"
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:06 -0500] "GET
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:06 -0500] "GET
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:06 -0500] "GET
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:06 -0500] "GET
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:06 -0500] "GET
192.168.55.111 - - [21/Nov/2001:09:44:06 -0500] "GET
-----
Free P2P Backup, Windows & Linux
Zealots aside, why is this better? Have you modified any of the source code? Have you contributed? Have you searched through it to make sure there are no back doors that mail out your keystrokes? Or are you karma whoring?
No, but I know that there won't be any backdoors or trojans in there. Can you say the same about closed-source? No, you can't.
- You can disable Mozilla's JS window.open()
A nice feature, true, but what happens when you go to click on a "help" icon and it can't open a new window?
Then enable it for that site only. Can this be done in IE? No. IE is shit.
- Mozilla has tabbled browsing
Which slows down the quick alt+tab everyone uses to switch between browser windows...
Have you ever heard of "Ctrl+tab"?
- Mozilla doesn't redirect you to MSN (or AOL for that matter) and spill your privacy for all to see
Nor does IE, if you configure it correctly.
You mean you actually have to delve into the slow, complex configuration just to stop it automatically sending you to sites you don't want to go to? Wow, I never realised IE was this bad.
- Mozilla has a development team that cares about the end product
More ramblings from a zealot. I'm sure the IE programmers care about IE. They just dont feel the need to sit around and pat each other on the back in public message boards.
In that case, why is IE so bare and featureless compared to Opera, Mozilla, Galeon etc? Why does it provide such a basic, lacking browsing experience? Does it even have tabbed windows?
- Mozilla has site-specific image and cookie management
Internet privacy zones. From your top menu in IE6: tools -> internet options -> privacy -> click the edit button. Yep, it works in IE on a site by site basis.
Unfortuanetly, IE's configation is slow and confusing. It really is the worst browser out there. With Galeon, I can turn off javascript via a single menu. With IE I'd be delving into countless menus and windows, trying to find elusive checkboxes.
When will you idiots realise that IE is literally the worst browser out there? Even Netscape is better.
The current daily builds 0.9.6+ do ask for /favicon.ico by default. The released 0.9.6 build does not.
Can your mother install Windows? No, so fuck off.
There is an "X" to close individual tabs. It's not on the tab itself, however. Instead, it's the "X" in the upper-right corner of the browser window, just above the scroll bar and below the logo. This "X" will close the currently active tab.
:)
I agree that the "X" may be better placed on the tab itself, that way you don't have to switch to another tab to make it active, then close the tab. But, this way works well and it makes the tab feature that much cooler.
--
Welcome to the land of the easily amused...
What should happen?
I should be running mozilla 0.9.6 right? Nope! Thanks to Galeon's dependancy on the older mozilla. In the words of Cartman "son of a bitch!". So, Red Hat 72ers...I guess we will have to go the compile route.
any suggestions
--the deacon
the deacon...that's all you need to know for now
When will they replace the Mozilla icon in Windows with the lizard that they use in Linux? What *IS* the Windows icon supposed to be, anyway?
This space left intentionally blank.
Google for the "Mozilla user agent toolbar"
Argh - I moderated this as funny and it somehow selected Underrated. Sorry :)
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
At the risk of seeming a little stupid...how do I use this tabbed browsing feature? Mozilla 9.6 still looks the same as any other Mozilla; I hit control-N and a new window pops up--I don't see any tabs anywhere.
Is there some configuration option I forgot to set?
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
After playing around with a couple different compiles,
ac_add_options --disable-shared
ac_add_options --enable-static,
seemed to disable something that allowed plugins to work properly, at least flash, anyway.
Instead of playing the many flash files I have stored on my local apache, moz popped up a dialog asking if I wanted to download them...
Now on my forth build I will definately be leaving those two out configure options.
Thanks for the other suggestions however, I was unaware you could pass gcc flags to
--enable-optimize
Check out ioquake3.org for a great, free, First-Person Shooter engine!
is the one feature that Netscape has (and Mozilla does not) that is keeping me from switching to Mozilla.
Orp
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
For links, see this post.
Er, exactly, fuckard. The point is, the fact that anyone's mum can't do anything is irrelevant.
Plus only the most fervent Linux-loving Windows-blind idiot (see mirror for details) would argue that any distribution of Linux was anything like as easy to install and set up as Windows.
Try Ctrl-PgUp/PgDn to switch between tabs. Yes this is configurable.
Personally I actually prefer a separate key command to switch between tabs because then I have an easy way to switch pages without interference from other windows that aren't browsers.
Ok, then maybe you should try this browser instead.
Yes, I saw the sarcasm there. But seriously, why shouldn't you be able to run a browser on a relatively "modern" computer?
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
I just installed 0.9.6, opened up the messenger program, and what did i hear.. the outlook mail sound. uuuugggh... who ever implemeted that should be shot.
I've been using NS 6.2 and it works ok..with a few
annoying bugs. Can I run NS 6.2 and Moz interchangeably, as in mail/news/preferences changes by Moz will be seen by NS 6.2 and visa-versa?
Thanks,
Ben
It seems to me, from my experience with Mozilla, that after 4 years and starting from scratch, it has nearly reached the quality and usability of Netscape 4.7x. I have yet to see any really major feature enhancements (besides tabbed browsing and support for multiple mixed - IMAP, POP3 - email accounts) that would prompt me to replace IE with it as my or my company's default browser or replace Netscape 4.7x as our default email client. And it is still too darn slow!
I desperately want to replace IE - please give me a reason to believe!
Salsa Shark. We're gonna need a bigger boat.
Package: mozilla-browser
Priority: optional
Section: non-US
Installed-Size: 23956
Maintainer: Takuo KITAME <kitame@northeye.org>
Architecture: i386
Source: mozilla
Version: 2:0.9.5-5
That replaced M18. Just when I thought Debian finally got a modern version...
The thing I like most about Mozilla and what is coming from the development team isn't the browser (although it is really nice IMHO). I like XUL, and Gecko, and all the other neat little parts in it. I mean there is Galleon and Komodo which are two really cool apps based on the technology. I have thought about using XUL and maybe even Gecko in a game as the engine for the user interface and help system. The browser is great, but I think the ideas, API's, tools, and what not coming out of the whole thing are the most impressive part. Eh, My .02
over on the far right
I find that I use the RLR mouse gesture almost every time I want to close a tab.
DULR (think "T") to open a new tab is sweet, too. I just wish I had a 3 button mouse so I could use the "drag over the link" gestures.
--
E_NOSIG
I realize that this isn't specifically related to the Mozilla release, but it seems somewhat germane to the topic.
I've got an old Sparc IPC workstation running OpenBSD that I'm playing around with right now. Does anyone know of a decent, lightweight browser that I can compile and use on this platform? I'd prefer not to install Netscape, both because of the closed source and because I'd have to compile SUNOS compatability into my kernel for one stinking app.
I don't need Flash or anything like that, just something barebones that I can read static pages on.
(And yes, Lynx is already installed, but I do sort of like graphics.)
--saint
My mother can't install Linux, so maybe we should dump that as well?
Sure. If it's too difficult, she should either find someone who knows how to set it up, or just find something simpler.
Mozilla is available for Windows; I hope you remembered that. And, my parents have actually successfully installed NS 6.1.
Point being, software writers, when trying to make a dumbed-down, easy-to-use product (such as IE), shouldn't leave those same users hanging when it comes to concepts they may not even be aware of, such as security and privacy. The business about cookies and images is excusable, simply bebause so many sites throw cookies at the user these days, although quietly routing a user through your own servers for tracking purposes is a bit squirrelly. But allowing non-users to install software, invisibly, without the user's knowledge? That's downright negligent.
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
I'm waiting until it supports setting multiple tabs as your "start" page. Then it will be awesome. Launch the browser and have all the pages you normally visit first thing in the morning all loaded up and ready to go!
I confess, I have selectivitus too. I have been selecting (highlighting) test as I read in web browesers for as long as I remember. I thought I was the only person who did this. I think it helps me remember where I am in the page, despite the negative color shifting. Band together, selectors!
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
I'm back to Mozilla 0.9.4 because the Mail application has some changes I don't like. For example, in the message preview, extra headers are shown that I don't care about. This limits how much of the actual mail message I see. I have not found a settings change to correct it. They also added a search bar to the top of the message list.
given that 9.5 uses about 3X more memory than netscape, I can't afford that on my work PC. It was slow, resourse intensive, and when I try to hit the case mod section of HardOCP the thing drive thrashes my PC to a crawl. Sorry but until they deal with the bloat, I'm not interested.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
Please file a bug with http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ . This sounds like a memory leak as other posters have described. If so, it should be fixed before 1.0.
I am not a lawyer. Do not take my words as legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
I have no problem running the nightlies on my VIC-20. Here's my current browser id string:
"Mozilla/5.0 (GEOS; U; VIC-20 6502; en-US; rv:0.9.6+) Gecko/20011119"
Perhaps you need more memory?
Without you I'm one step closer to happiness without violence.
In the meantime, here is a hint for your troubleshooting procedure. Look for "rogue plug-ins." Go to *all* of your Netscape 4.x, Netscape 6.x, and Mozilla binary directories. Look for "plugins" subdirectories. Mozilla seems to use plugins from all of these directories, which can be problematic. Get rid of plugin files that are out of date or questionable.
Here's a story. I was having major problems with crashing. Mozilla hung frequently. Mozilla would crash sometimes with an error report. Sometimes I would get a crash error report, but Mozilla wouldn't actually crash. I could move the report window out of the way and continue browsing indefinitely. Then I got rid of my old Quicktime Plugins, and out of date Java plugins from my Netscape 4x plugins subdirectory. Now Mozilla is rock solid stable. No hangs and no crashes so far. Just an anecdote.
One more note. Update your JRE if you haven't done so lately.
I am not a lawyer. Do not take my words as legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
Then mozilla is as fast as IE. I admit some parts of the code are slower because its not a native app, but they are working on speed right now. It should eventually be just as fast.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
There are plenty of free mail and news readers out there, if mozilla would just concentrate on the browser side of things, wouldn't that speed development?
I've had that same problem with it trying to access the news servers when my cable modem is down. The best solution I have found is to keep it 'closed'. You know, click the little arrow thingy?
Please file your bug reports/feature requests with http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ .
I am not a lawyer. Do not take my words as legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
Opera doesnt support even half the standards of Mozilla.
Opera doesnt have an email app.
Opera doesnt have spell checking, composer.
Opera doesnt have very good bookmarking.
Opera doesnt have good security features.
Opera doesnt have password auto complete, form complete etc.
Opera may have tabbed browsing but so does everything else.
Opera doesnt have themes.
Opera doesnt support MathML.
Opera to me is at the level of Netscape 3x
Its a slim downed browser, compareable to other slim browsers, but not to something like Mozilla.
Opera has built in ICQ but so what, Mozilla is owned by AOL and will always has the best built in ICQ and AOL support so lets not go here.
MOzilla has built in AOL, opera does not. MOzilla has built in jabber support so you can load ICQ, MSN, AOL, Yahoo, etc.
MOzilla has a full functioning news reader, Email Client, Composer, Spell checker, IRC chat, Address book features, Multiple Language support, Themes, Security features, Full plugin support, Java support, XML support, XUL support.
Opera is more compareable to konq for linux, or kmeleon for windows than to Mozilla.
Mozilla beats it feature for feature, standard for standard.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Nah, not being as hugely commercial as Windows, you need add-on software for the ultimate thumbnail porn experience. Although GraphicConverter vastly outshines what Explorer can do with thumbnails (can you view them at 400x400 in Explorer?) It does slideshows too. Finally the OS X Finder allows you to play the _entire_ movie without having to launch another app.
Is it any way I can make CTRL+N (open new window) open a tab instead of a new window?
I love the tabbed feature, and would like it to replace new window altogether.
Go figure. Who would have thought that Mozilla users would be asking for a feature that Lynx has had for years. :-)
This is one of many reasons why I keep Lynx around: when I'm using a web interface to a bug-tracking system, and I want to, say, paste some code in to the "explanation" textarea before I close the report, I can just pop into my $EDITOR.
I don't know of any other *nix browser which lets me do this (but I haven't looked very hard).
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
from Mozilla or NS6.x click the link to get an early "mockup-preview" of my new XUL application Geekzilla everything a geek needs in one place!!!
GeekZilla
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Has anyone compiled mozilla with the Intel compiler? If so, please post the results.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
This is not XML, HTML renders should handle bad code. Netscape 4.x does this with no problems. If it finds something written badly, or that it doesn't understand, it ignores it and still has no problem rendering the rest of the page correctly. Now why is that too much to ask from Moz?
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
try using linux > 2.4.10
I had probs with konq and leaks before that
I use Mozilla on my mac exclusively for pr0n, because the default browser on this (MacOS) box is Internet Explorer, so no one ever sees my history.
I used to tout Mozilla as a superior browser so that everyone else would use it. I've stopped doing that now. =;>
--Dan
It seems that the new version of Mozilla is not applying stylesheets to html files that are encoded in UTF-8. (But the stylesheet gets loaded.) If you want to try it: http://future.matthias-wimmer.de/charset/.
you don't need to re-write packets on the fly. You need to re-write entire HTML pages (individual packets probably won't give you enough context to properly apply your regex).
You need an http proxy server.
Search for the word proxy on:
http://web.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/
for a couple of samples, or write your own.
-matt
It gets better in XP!
-Movie editor, for splicing your dwnlded porn vids into one!
-Slideshow viewer, built in! Screensaver AND power point style!
-New image viewer! no more "blowing" up the pic in IE to view it in full "glory"! Instead you can blow it up into a image viewer that has perfect resizing algs.
-If you don't like the image viewer you can do a side scrolling viewer, where the thumbnails scroll by on the bottom and the image selected shows up larger above!
-vid viewing in a side taskbar!
It's like they bloody designed the thing for porn viewing!
Everytime slashdot has posted a major Mozilla release I've downloaded it and given it a whirl. I've been waiting impatiently to leave Netscape 4.7x in the dust and finally use a new browser (and forget about IE with all those nasty security flaws.) Unfortunatley, everytime I've used Mozilla in the past it wasn't quite up to my standards. I'm happy to say that this time I'm finally switching to Mozilla. Thanks to all the wonderfull developers who have made this possible.
Dozings.com -- Its kinda funny... If you're as crazy as me.
The page icons are quite cute, though I was disappointed in one respect...I went to www.microsoft.com, and the page icon wasn't Bill Gates as Borg. Can I correct this?
But they don't; in fact, they don't even accept bug reports!
... I'm convinced that IE6 is as stable as it is because IE5.5 had the option to send in core dumps every time it crashed (with a privacy pop-up first making sure you WANTED to send it in) .... yep, I'd call that a sufficient bug report ...
.... yep, that's for bug reporting too...
They absolutely do
Also, if you click the "help" tab, then "send feedback report",
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
The tabs are by far one of the best features of Mozilla, since 0.9.5. It would be significantly cooler if one could map the middle click button to open to a new tab (rather than a new full-size window, as it currently does). Anyone out there have a hack to make it do this?
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
Unfortunately, Konqueror supports the middle-click as well. Very annoying. Middle-clicking on the clear button to insert clipboard would be nice, as well as beeing able to move links onto it (since eg the image plugin won't recognize them).
I'm using 2.4.13. Still leaks.
Each build is getting worse, instead of better.
The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected. -- Will Rogers
I have fairly low-end PC dedicated for Win98 (Pentium III, 128MB). Somehow I've found performance of IE6 (compared with IE5) is seriosly degraded. Have no idea why. So I have finally bit the bullet and started using Mozilla for the most of the time. Boy, it REALLY makes the difference. No longer annoying waits.
By using Mozilla most of the time, we can help the developers by discovering and reporting bugs. (I've found a few and reported every one of them. At least one of them should have been fixed, I haven't check it yet). It is outstanding browser, as compared with IE6. I did try to use Opera but it is very unstable, keeps crashing, so I give up on it. Mozilla - not a single crash for over a week - and I've used it extensively.
- "Opera doesnt support even half the standards of Mozilla."
Is that so? I would like to see a list of these standards.
- "Opera doesnt have an email app."
Yes it does, actually. Not that I use it - I have already found my favourite e-mail client - "The Bat!". I don't think these features belong in a web browser anyway. Luckily, it does not slow down Opera.
- "Opera doesnt have spell checking, composer."
This is correct. However, what is the use of a spell checker if it does not have an e-mail client (as you falsely state above)?
- "Opera doesnt have very good bookmarking.
"Not very good bookmarking"... Wow, that says a lot. I find it to be excellent, though. The Hotlist is a powerful tool when you want to organize your bookmarks. Matter of opinion, I guess. Have you even tried Opera (see false comments above)?
- "Opera doesnt have good security features."
That depends on what "good security features" is supposed to mean. It sounds like you don't even know what you mean yourself.
- "Opera doesnt have password auto complete, form complete etc."
Yes, it can auto-complete forms.
- "Opera may have tabbed browsing but so does everything else."
Good attempt to minimize a great feature in Opera. Opera has "tabbed browsing", and does it better than any application. In fact, you can choose between full MDI and enhanced SDI.
- "Opera doesnt have themes."
Yes it does. Skins and button sets can be customized any way you want.
- "Opera doesnt support MathML."
True. But so what?
- "Opera to me is at the level of Netscape 3x Its a slim downed browser, compareable to other slim browsers, but not to something like Mozilla. Opera has built in ICQ but so what, Mozilla is owned by AOL and will always has the best built in ICQ and AOL support so lets not go here."
Useless, empty statements. If you are going to bash Opera (or any browser), at least go for its weaknesses, and don't think up a random list of things you know little or nothing about.
- "MOzilla has built in AOL, opera does not."
Thank God for that :)
- "MOzilla has a full functioning news reader, Email Client"
Opera's got both.
- "Composer, Spell checker, IRC chat,"
True, but I have no use for these things.
- "Address book features, Multiple Language support, Themes, Security features, Full plugin support, Java support, XML support"
WRONG. Opera supports all of these. Oh, and you mentioned themes and these vague "security features" of yours again. And Opera has support for LiveConnect (communication between JavaScript and plugins/Java), which Mozilla does not, due to its changed plugin interface.
- "XUL support. Opera is more compareable to konq for linux, or kmeleon for windows than to Mozilla. Mozilla beats it feature for feature, standard for standard."
I beg to differ. You carefully selected features. Sadly, you don't quite seem to know what you are talking about. It sounds like you haven't even used Opera.
Clever signature text goes here.
This doesn't happen to most users. Try uninstalling Mozilla and deleting all its leftover files. Then install a fresh copy of 0.9.6. You might also scan your hard disk for plugin directories. Maybe you have some old or buggy plugins.
I am not a lawyer. Do not take my words as legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
Bah! Thumbnails! You wimps have it easy!
From a mailing list I frequent:
Have you tried getting/making patches for 0.9.5->0.9.6, fetching Debian source and making your own 0.9.6? I've found the Debian mozilla packages rather slow to update, so that's probably what I'll do to get to 0.9.6, if it's feasible without pain.
Direct quote from the downloads page for the new 0.9.6 release...
We do not guarantee that any source code or executable code available from the mozilla.org domain is Year 2000 compliant.
Does this mean I have to set my clock to 197x again?
When does the Mac OS X build come out? Every time there's a milestone build they instantly post the OS9 version, and several days later we see the OS X build. It seems logical to me to reverse this if possibble.
A lot of will get iBooks this fall and christmas, pre-loaded with OS X. Many people buy Macs because they don't like the quality of Microsft software, and they will seek out products like Mozilla. It would make sense then to set our best foot forward.
How do you build the concept of project management into an open-source project? How do you get volunteers to focus their work? The Salvation Army gives ranks and has a formal heirarchy...Maybe it's time...Can I be a Captain of TCP/IP?
Who did what now?
Here's a simplified classic skin(Lo-Fi Classic Skin) for mozilla0.9.6.
For the people who miss themes.org...
gashu.org/mozilla
No matter. I have 50 karma anyway. Any else disappears into the ether.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Hmm, usually it's the other way around. I wait a day or two after each new release so I can be sure there will be RPMs up and a lower load on the server. tars usually go up first
It locks up every time! I'm uninstalling and going back to .95......
More important than the new features to me is that Opera 6.0beta1 is MUCH more stable than 5.12 was. 6.0 final is gonna rock... :)
All Glory To The Hypnotoad!