X-Box Emulated (Not)

/.ed already? by jarodss · 2002-01-12 05:29 · Score: 1

I'm not getting anything on the page at all.

I wonder if it's running of an X-Box?

Why emulate by batboy78 · 2002-01-12 05:30 · Score: 2, Interesting

Why emulate it when all it does is play PC games anyway. Wait a few months and you will be able to get all the games for X-Box on your PC.

Re:Why emulate by Webmonger · 2002-01-12 06:00 · Score: 2

No. X-Box games run on the X-Box only, and some of them (e.g. Halo) are not expected to ever be released for PC.
Re:Why emulate by SilentChris · 2002-01-12 07:25 · Score: 2

All it does is play PC games? Do you think DOA 3 is ever going to arrive on PC?
Welcome to my killfile: *ploink*
Re:Why emulate by Com2Kid · 2002-01-12 10:49 · Score: 1

I sure as heck hope so, the last decent fighting game that the PC had was OMF200x (forget the exact date. ^_^ ) and / or virtua fighter.

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Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Re:Why emulate by 13Echo · 2002-01-14 01:30 · Score: 1

I was playing Virtual On on my Dreamcast last night, and the mechs reminded me of OMF 2097. I miss that old game. It was quite fun.

At http://www.omf.com/ you will find previews for the next OMF game, a 3d arena-type fighter. It's being made by many of the same designers of the original, and I hear that they purchased the rights from Epic Megagames.
Re:Why emulate by Com2Kid · 2002-01-14 15:20 · Score: 1

It has been 'in development' since around 1998 as I recall.

Hey look, they changed the site layout and actualy have a NEWS section now! Wow! LOL!

Ah, best of luck to them though, they'll need it. :)

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Need help treating your acne? Come here!

Hey! by SomeOtherGuy · 2002-01-12 05:30 · Score: 2

I thought we were more concerned with emulating the PC on the Xbox...Now someone has to go and emulate the Xbox on the PC...BTW -- the link is dead. (Already!)

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(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.

sloshdotted by skotte · 2002-01-12 05:31 · Score: 1

wow ... as i write this there arent even any fFirst posts, and it's already slashdotted!

or MS' lawyers are really really quick to strike

Bad for the economy by perdida · 2002-01-12 05:31 · Score: 1, Interesting

I hope Microsoft sues the author of this emulator, who has probably already taken a BIG chunk out of the sales for the X-Box.

X-Box is expensive, and most gamers are poor and already own a computer. In these economic times, they will probably opt for the slightly poorer play/graphics quality and the small amount of work involved in getting and installing the emulator.

The console is meant for more than simple game play - Microsoft is intending to build lots of new gaming methods and communications in it due to its ability to connect to the internet. People who opt out and choose the emulator will miss out on all of this stuff.

Choose what you will, but consider the consequences carefully.

--
Goat sex free since 2001

Re:Bad for the economy by garcia · 2002-01-12 05:37 · Score: 1, Troll

I am going to hope that you are kidding.

Me paying $300+ for an XBox + games when I already have a PS2 w/a shitload more games (and better ones IMHO) and when I already have a computer (that has a freaking network connection already) and when I have already sunk 1000's into it.

Let's see. XBox or emulator. You take your pick.

As far as it not supporting the joysticks. Thank god. Let's hope it never does. I would much rather use the keyboard or some other controller (eventually) anyway. If you have read my posts before you will already know my hatred of that gawdy, god awful, torture device.

I am just surprised that the emulator came along this early. I remember that PS2 emus took forever to come out (not like 2 months like this one).

Go emus!
Re:Bad for the economy by Drunk4Free · 2002-01-12 05:38 · Score: 1

Some of us are not interested in anything they are planning. I think I could live with the consequences.
Re:Bad for the economy by CNERD · 2002-01-12 05:38 · Score: 1

Accually, this is good for Microsoft.

As far as i know, MS LOOSES money on selling the console. But they gain money from game licenseing.

If you wish to run a Xbox game on this, you have to have the accuall DVD. Therefore MS still makes money if you use it.

So everyone is happy. The poor guy who cant afford the Xbox, but can afford the games can play them on his high end PC, MS makes a buck or 2 on the game and doesnt loose a dollar for selling the guy the console.

So I see nothing but good coming from this.
Re:Bad for the economy by swright · 2002-01-12 05:40 · Score: 1

thats crap. MS lose money on the console itself and make it back on the games.

If we all use the emulator and just buy loads of games it's all the better for them...
Re:Bad for the economy by guttentag · 2002-01-12 05:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

...the author of this emulator, who has probably already taken a BIG chunk out of the sales for the X-Box.

I doubt that. SNES emulation is rampant because the the ROM files are only 250K-3,000K each. They can be stored in huge, free repositories and they don't take very long to download.
Anyone know how big an X-Box ROM file would have to be? Let's say they fill a DVD... that's about 6GB of data. Not many people have the bandwidth, time and hard drive space to download these files. The size also makes it much more expensive for someone to distribute the files... you can't just stick a 6GB file on an anonymous Geocities account.
Will X-Box emulation be rampant in 5 or 10 years when hard disks are bigger and bandwidth is fatter? Probably. But by then Microsoft will have introduced the HomeStation, and you'll be downloading your games from them via encrypted streams.
Re:Bad for the economy by tempmpi · 2002-01-12 05:47 · Score: 2

Microsoft is losing money with every xbox they sell. They must sell eight games or so to every xbox owner to make it profitable. An emulator like this one could make people buy xbox games that do not own a xbox, isn't that a good thing, even for ms ?
You also say that this emulator could have already taken out a big chunk of xbox sales, I disagree even strong here. Console markets have almost nothing in common with the hardcore pc gaming market. Using an emulator like this one is simply to complicated for most console gamers. I have seen people complaining in a store that their PSone wouldn't play PS2 games. Do you really think that these people are smart enough to use an emulator like this ? They will not even know about it if it will work perfectly. I'm sure MS will try to sue them because they always want controll over everything.

--
Jan
Re:Bad for the economy by Nullsmack · 2002-01-12 06:12 · Score: 1

Bah, people seem to forget things very quickly. One minute they're spouting off about how stupid it is to buy an Xbox since it's just a $300 pc.. The next they are spouting off about how impossible it will be to emulate one.

Hello McFly! You don't have to emulate anything if the architecture is already there!

Since the Xbox is mostly pc architecture anyways, I'm not surprised in the least that something like this is already out. The only thing you have to do is software.

Jesus, Xbox being hard to emulate? Please, that's similar to saying that it would be hard to emulate a Linux x86 environment on a Windows x86 setup.

Incidentally, I wonder if this emulator is Windows only.. it wouldn't surprise me.
Re:Bad for the economy by ThatComputerGuy · 2002-01-12 06:47 · Score: 1

BUT supposedly M$ loses about 100 bucks for every bought console. Of course, xboxes are not built when you order, they're mass produced beforehand. So, if you do'nt buy the xbox at all, M$ loses how much? $100 + retail cost of xbox ($300?).

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XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

Broken site.. by acrhemeied · 2002-01-12 05:33 · Score: 1, Informative

Working link here (http://people.freenet.de/linar/).

Re:Broken site.. by zaffir · 2002-01-12 09:58 · Score: 1

Well, seeing as how that Halo shot was released several months ago, I'm betting its a (crappy) photoshop job.

--
"Upon attaching the waterblock to my penis, I began to notice that I know nothing about computers." -- JRockway

Hmmm... by Outlyer · 2002-01-12 05:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games. If you buy your own high end PC, pay full sticker, and then buy their games, you're saving them money, and they're still getting their cut from the development fees for the game.

Best of all, since no method for copying DVD games exists (well, not for under $5,000) it's not like piracy will be the issue.

By the way, for those of you who think Apple Superdrive or the HP DVD+RW machine will help, think again; they don't have a capacity to store most of the XBox games; as they only support 4.7gb DVDs, and the majority of XBox games are dual-layered (i.e. 8gb+)

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----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------

Re:Hmmm... by neafevoc · 2002-01-12 05:40 · Score: 1, Informative

Best of all, since no method for copying DVD games exists (well, not for under $5,000) it's not like piracy will be the issue.

Last time I checked my local Fry's, I found a Pioneer DVD-R for around $500. Price of DVD recording has dropped drastically and continued to drop.

I'm not too familiar how MS handled how to lock their DVD-ROM games, but if it's anything like Sony's DVD-ROMs, then it only takes time to crack it.

Of course, prices of DVD-R drives will eventually go down, and the cycle will repeat itself.

One thing I wonder about the emulator. Would it be possible to somehow create a DVD image off of an XBOX game, store it on your computer, then have the emu read off of that image...

I guess it only takes time, eh?
Re:Hmmm... by garcia · 2002-01-12 05:44 · Score: 2

most people are going to be buying some sort of MS OS anyway. They are going to make a shitload of profit just from that.

Hell, MS should buy the damn emulator out and start selling the thing. The guy would get rich, they would get richer.

Although they wouldn't have the amount of hardware necessary to infiltrate deeper into markets (set top box, cable, etc) and have Billy on the TV every morning saying "Thank you for supporting Gatesville"
Re:Hmmm... by sid_vicious · 2002-01-12 05:49 · Score: 2

Best of all, since no method for copying DVD games exists (well, not for under $5,000)...

Step 1. Borrow game from friend.
Step 2. Dump game on hard drive.

Alternately...

Step 1. Rent game from Blockbuster.
Step 2. Dump game on hard drive.

--
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
Re:Hmmm... by skotte · 2002-01-12 05:50 · Score: 2

the encryption which this emulator uses is RSA and DeCSS. that is, in the settings dialogue, you can choose between those two.
this suggests then, the xbox uses one or the other.
Re:Hmmm... by skotte · 2002-01-12 05:53 · Score: 1

It's fFunny. people are missing a real key point here.

The emulator runs on a microsoft OS!

they arent really losing money, cos yer still using their equipment.
Re:Hmmm... by theancient1 · 2002-01-12 06:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games.

I'd wonder if it's that simple. There may be other indirect relationships at work. For example, might it be possible that ownership of the X-Box drives game sales? If you've got an X-Box in your living room, you might be more likely to purchase games for it. Or, you might be less likely to buy a competitor's product and start spending half of your gaming budget on its games. Relationships like this are almost impossible to predict, but they have to be considered.

Eventually, they'll also want to start selling online services -- the more people who own an X-Box, the more potential subscribers they'll have. And there's also the bragging rights that go along with having the best-selling console.

In addition, they have to be concerned about the long-term effects -- some number of months from now, they'll be breaking even on the X-Box sales, at which point they won't want to have an emulator around. It's only in the beginning that they lose money. Similarly, while DVD burners aren't an issue now, they may become a problem by the end of the product's life cycle.
Re:Hmmm... by ThatComputerGuy · 2002-01-12 06:24 · Score: 2

But you forget, the OS can be pirated very easily.

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XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Re:Hmmm... by alleria · 2002-01-12 06:27 · Score: 1

Is there an issue of copy protection being broken? I believe that said issue was the only reason Sony gets pissed at PSX emulators on other platforms.

(well, that and I guess making games look graphically subpar most of the time, heh.)
Re:Hmmm... by tester13 · 2002-01-12 06:31 · Score: 2

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games. If you buy your own high end PC, pay full sticker, and then buy their games, you're saving them money, and they're still getting their cut from the development fees for the game.

Not to mention profitable windows licenses.
Re:Hmmm... by Crackerman111 · 2002-01-12 06:44 · Score: 1

I don't think making a ton of money is Microsoft's primary goal with the XBox. That's not to say that they don't want the XBox to be profitable, it's just not their main goal. I think what they're really trying to do is get as many proprietary, Microsoft controlled systems into as many homes as they can. They don't want just a monopoly on the PC desktop, they want to control the whole platform. This is the reason why Microsoft will not take kindly to emulators. If you don't believe me, just wait until the HomeStation (or whatever they decide to call it) comes out.
Re:Hmmm... by 1g$man · 2002-01-12 07:19 · Score: 1

Maybe you should get back to Fry's and see how much they want for a burner that can make dual layer DVDs like x-box uses... er... do they even exist in consumer form yet?
Re:Hmmm... by alec314159 · 2002-01-12 07:26 · Score: 1

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games. If you buy your own high end PC, pay full sticker, and then buy their games, you're saving them money, and they're still getting their cut from the development fees for the game.
If this is true, why wouldn't they just offer all of these XBox games under Windows? Because they WANT everyone to buy XBoxes so they would monopolize the market.
Re:Hmmm... by Cyberllama · 2002-01-12 08:21 · Score: 2

Best of all, since no method for copying DVD games exists (well, not for under $5,000) it's not like piracy will be the issue.

Actually a good dvd-r drive can be had for less than 500 dollars now (around 400-450 if you get a good deal) and the discs can be purchased for as little as 3 dollars. These discs, despite what you may have heard about dvd-r drives and copy protection for copying movies, CAN successfully copy most any dvd movie and I suspect could be used to copy any dvd-based game as well.
Re:Hmmm... by jacoplane · 2002-01-12 08:29 · Score: 2, Funny

it uses DeCSS for encryption? Wow does that mean it will play multi-region DVDs for me ???
Re:Hmmm... by Cramer · 2002-01-12 09:43 · Score: 1

Where are you finding DVD-R's for 3$?
Re:Hmmm... by Trepidity · 2002-01-12 09:57 · Score: 1

I'm not too familiar how MS handled how to lock their DVD-ROM games, but if it's anything like Sony's DVD-ROMs, then it only takes time to crack it.

From what I understand, MS's DVD-ROM drive spins backwards, and the discs thus are written so the spiral is in the opposite direction of normal DVD discs. I don't think you'll be seeing a crack for that anytime soon.

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10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Re:Hmmm... by Alan+Partridge · 2002-01-12 10:09 · Score: 1

nonsense, Virtual game Station for the Macintosh is an absolutely fantastic emulator. The only thing that it loses to a real PSX is the inability to use the excellent Sony and Namco (I love my neGcon!) controllers. PSX on your you iBook? You better believe it!

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That was classic intercourse!
Re:Hmmm... by Danse · 2002-01-12 10:35 · Score: 1

And do you know of any software that will rip an X-Box DVD game? It won't be anything that existed prior to the X-Box launch.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Re:Hmmm... by Ondo · 2002-01-12 10:37 · Score: 1

Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games.

Actually, their loss may be "as much as" $75 USD per console, or at least that is the estimate from the industry analysts quoted in this article.
Re:Hmmm... by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 11:02 · Score: 1

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games.
It's been so long since that figure was first published (and even then, it was an estimate by analysts), that at this point in time it's pretty meaningless. Component and labor costs involved in making Xboxen have shifted mightily in the last 6 months, I am sure.

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Re:Hmmm... by Namarrgon · 2002-01-12 11:03 · Score: 5, Informative

No, that definitely won't work, for the reasons below (and probably others):
- All Xbox games are made on dual layer (DVD-9) discs, and the OS & game are booted from the second layer. As no DVD writer (under at least $5k anyway) will write dual layer discs, coping the games is not an option (unless the firmware is modified to bypass this restriction).
- All Xbox executables are encrypted & signed using public-key encryption (don't know what strength). This would have to be broken, or the key(s) obtained before any executables could be patched or even executed.
- A filesystem driver/emulator might have to be written (it's a modified form of FAT32).
- There's still the matter of the unified memory architecture. Some games will require this, in order to directly modify textures or polygon data, or simply to get the data throughput required. At best, a regular-PC-based emulator will run such a game quite slowly; at worst it wouldn't run at all.
- There is already an Xbox hardware "emulator", made available by MS to lower-tier developers. However, this is more a set of instructions about what PC hardware to use (i.e. GF3, DX8) to make something that approximates final Xbox hardware. It will certainly not run final Xbox games.
Alternatively, an emulator could be made to work at the hardware level (intercepting register calls etc from the monolithic DX/driver dll), running all system software unmodified - which would restrict it to GeForce3/4 hardware at least, possibly on an nForce chipset (which has the same sound hardware) - or raise the CPU requirements considerably to emulate these.

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Re:Hmmm... by EpsCylonB · 2002-01-12 11:07 · Score: 1

From what I understand, MS's DVD-ROM drive spins backwards, and the discs thus are written so the spiral is in the opposite direction of normal DVD discs. I don't think you'll be seeing a crack for that anytime soon.

You sure ?. I thought I read that pc's can read xbox disks in the same way that they can ps disks.
Re:Hmmm... by Com2Kid · 2002-01-12 11:38 · Score: 1

"with whatever encryption"

The key has to be stored someplace either in the HW or on the media itself (though storing it on the media would be very silly, unless, see below. :) )

"and other tricks MS is using on them?"

Just so long as some weird type of laser is not being used to read a special part of the disc (or randomly interspersed parts of the discs) then with prober software the DVDs should be readable.

--
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Re:Hmmm... by Howie · 2002-01-12 11:52 · Score: 1

The Apple Store has them here for $5 each, and unless the world has gone completely mad, they must be available cheaper than that.

That said, Amazon has a single disk for $15, so maybe it's time to start padding the walls. Ouch.

--
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Re:Hmmm... by Dr.+Spork · 2002-01-12 11:59 · Score: 2

If there really is an emulator, it's no big loss if copied X-box titles don't play on an X-box. Sure, the X-box might have all sorts of hardware protection, but there is no reason why an emulator must require that protection.
Re:Hmmm... by Tetrad69 · 2002-01-12 12:21 · Score: 1

If you've got an X-Box in your living room, you might be more likely to purchase games for it.

For some reason, I was reminded of the file-sharing market.

If people have the opportunity to try XBox games on their PC (maybe even buy one or two, or at least borrow from a friend or rent), then they may get interested enough in the console itself (as an emulator probably wouldn't go as fast as the box itself nor have the online capabilities) and then they get more interested in more games, and the cycle continues.

You are right, though. There are a lot of indirect relationships.
Re:Hmmm... by Eil · 2002-01-12 13:46 · Score: 2

The emulator might not require protection, but the games have them.

The executables on X-Box games are encrypted and that encryption needs to be broken before they can be emulated.
Re:Hmmm... by jmorris42 · 2002-01-12 16:20 · Score: 1

That side of the crypto is easy. The XBox knows how to decrypt a game. Eventually it will be made to give up it's public keyring and 'emulation' on a pc is going to happen, even if it requires booting a mutant OS.

The bitch is going to be getting one of the secret keys to allow a linux port to XBox.

Unlike the DVD CCA idiots, M$ appears to have been smart enough to use public key crypto, so just being able to decode a game title won't help much in the effort to write a disk that an xbox can read.

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Democrat delenda est
Re:Hmmm... by sid_vicious · 2002-01-12 19:06 · Score: 1

And do you know of any software that will rip an X-Box DVD game?

Nope, don't know of any such software or hardware enabling you to do it, and everything I know about the subject suggests that nothing to do this currently exists. The point was simply that (at least theoretically) the price of a $5000 DVD burner isn't the limiting factor in making copies of XBox games.

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If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
Re:Hmmm... by Corrado · 2002-01-12 23:41 · Score: 1

That can't be correct. CD-ROM (and I suspect DVD) disks do not have spiral tracks like a vinal record does. Their tracks are layed out in concentric circles. So, I don't imagine that there would be any difficulty reading a disk spinning backwards; if it does in fact spin backwards.

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KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
Re:Hmmm... by Alan+Partridge · 2002-01-13 22:02 · Score: 1

where do you get one? sounds good

--
That was classic intercourse!

uhoh... by David+E.+Smith · 2002-01-12 05:33 · Score: 2, Informative

That site already seems a bit sluggish... better get a mirror of the software up pronto.

(This mirror may only be good for a few hours! Grab it whilst you can!)

Re:uhoh... by David+E.+Smith · 2002-01-12 06:03 · Score: 4, Informative

Okay, that link is now broken. And since I host it, I should know. :-)

This appears to be one doozy of a hoax. I just snagged the file and uploaded it to Mr. Web Server - I haven't even virus-scanned it. Which, since the "xbox.vxd" file appears to come right outta Quake 3, you may want to do.

I don't know if it does ANYTHING, much less anything good or bad. I don't have a Windows box to test it on.

Exercise caution...

Now the only thing we need... by cyba · 2002-01-12 05:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

... is to be able to run the XBox emulator under Wine :-)

Re:Now the only thing we need... by HeUnique · 2002-01-12 05:47 · Score: 2

Well, it does run (I get the XBox logo and everything), but it has a VXD file inside - which wine as it is now doesn't support yet.

I don't have any XBox game to test though..

--
Hetz (Heunique)

Some info from the /.ed site by hogsback · 2002-01-12 05:34 · Score: 2, Redundant

Working
StarWars Starfighter
UFC: Tapout
NHL 2002

Partially Working
Halo
The Simpsons Road Rage
Arctic Thunder
Kabuki Warriors
F1 2001

Not Working
NASCAR Heat

Hardware Requiremens

At least 1GHz Athlon/Duron/P3/P4
Nvidia Geforce Video/ATI Radeon only
256MB RAM
DVD ROM Drive

Known Bugs

Video flickering in some Games
Sporadic crashes.
Slow Performance on P3 Systems
General Problems with Intel CPUs
Not compatible to Kyro graphics
No Joystik support yet
OpenGL support only for nvidia gForce 2/3
No Gamepad Support yet

--
Hogsback

Re:Some info from the /.ed site by batboy78 · 2002-01-12 05:38 · Score: 2, Funny

"General Problems with Intel CPU's"

Thats pretty funny considering that there are Intel Processors in the actual XBox.

But this way Microsoft doesn't lose money... by TellarHK · 2002-01-12 05:34 · Score: 2

There's the problem, Microsoft makes money on the X-Box consoles, and every emulator out there will just provide another way to run X-Box games without having Microsoft take the nearly-hundred-dollar hit on hardware that the system itself costs them. So, even though Microsoft might try and sue, it's kind of an amusing situation in that the more people running emulators there are who buy games, the more money Microsoft actually makes.

--
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page

Re:But this way Microsoft doesn't lose money... by Anonymous Coward · 2002-01-12 05:40 · Score: 1, Insightful

You're wrong. They lose money on the console and make it on the games. Secretly they'd like it if you bought the games and not the console.

P.S. - Hey Taco, how is it OK to support Sony and not MS in the console wars? Is Sony the underdog?
Re:But this way Microsoft doesn't lose money... by Stonehand · 2002-01-12 07:35 · Score: 1

Only if they were thinking short-term, which they definitely DON'T do. Keep in mind that the people who use emulators aren't exactly associated with *purchasing* games, either.

Microsoft *wants* you to buy the console. Why? Market share. Frankly, even though they're Microsoft and not a no-name company, who the heck is going to want to write or port more games for the XBox if they can't boast a decent market share? If their console numbers look dismal compared to PS2 and GameCube, then they've invested a lot of money for nada. If they get a good market share, then game companies will have to take a long, hard look at paying licensing fees to tap into that market and bringing over their better games there, rather than missing out.

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Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Re:But this way Microsoft doesn't lose money... by Sloppy · 2002-01-12 08:42 · Score: 2

Microsoft doesn't want any unlicensed people to understand XBox internals or crack protocols.

An XBox emulator will, indirectly, lead to people being able to develop XBox software without having to pay money and agree to weird restrictions.

The situation sounds a lot like how MPAA wants to supress unlicensed DVD players, in spite of the fact that players increase MPAA sales. (e.g. Xine has resulted in me purchasing DVDs where otherwise I would have not done so.) Why expect Microsoft to be any different?

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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Re:But this way Microsoft doesn't lose money... by TellarHK · 2002-01-12 10:22 · Score: 2

Actually, I intended to say that Microsoft loses money in the first sentence of my post, but the fact I'm feeling rather sick today caused a brainfart where I just didn't preview. My bad.

Microsoft does indeed make money on the games, but lose it on the hardware. For that reason, I'll be much more interested in a PC emulator for X-Box than I will be in something the other way around.

After all, for half the cost of a Wal-Mart grade PC from HP, you can get a decently powerful PC with an incredible graphics card that also plays DVDs and some pretty decent video games.

Sigh, yes, that last post was pretty embarassing. I'm going to go soak my head in ice water now.

--
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page

Emulation? by Warped-Reality · 2002-01-12 05:34 · Score: 1

Doesn't the X-Box have standard x86 PC hardware in it? something like a 600mhz x86 proc and (i think) an nVidia graphics chip

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This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.

Re:Emulation? by The+Great+Wakka · 2002-01-12 05:39 · Score: 1

XBox:
128 MB RAM
nVidia GeForce 3
6 GB Hard Drive
Special Version of NT
Pentium III

I think. Not sure. Might be worth some research, though.

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Everything is mainstream now.
Re:Emulation? by batboy78 · 2002-01-12 05:46 · Score: 1

Check out this link on Slashdot This was posted several weeks ago.

Quick! by Scrameustache · 2002-01-12 05:35 · Score: 1

Link works for me BTW

So, OK people! Everybody download this beta before MicroS shuts it down!
They're gonna be on this link stink on a dead horse.

--

You can't take the sky from me...

no ROMS by skotte · 2002-01-12 05:35 · Score: 1

the fFirst thing i thought: cool! i dont have to buy MS crappy stuff!

but as yet, no ROMS have been made available it seems. so fFor the moment I (and anyone like me) is still sans XBOX

Re:no ROMS by Warped-Reality · 2002-01-12 06:04 · Score: 1

yeah, with the XBox using dvd's, the roms will only be in the 4GB range... happy downloading, hope you have an OC-12

--
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
Re:no ROMS by ThatComputerGuy · 2002-01-12 06:29 · Score: 1

It uses dual-layered DVDs, so it's about 8-9 GB max.

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

This is an amazing feat by InterruptDescriptorT · 2002-01-12 05:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

Considering what is known in the XBox reverse engineering world right now, I am absolutely shocked (and pleasantly so) that someone has come up with an emulator so quickly. First of all, XBoxHacker reports that the BIOS has four copies of itself and a whole host of protections to make sure that hackers don't try to overwrite it with their own code. Secondly, the BIOS boot code is hidden somewhere and isn't actually in the BIOS that the processor chip sees when it starts up at FFFF:FFF0; the community surmises it's in a hidden ROM somewhere, which is making reverse engineering a much more difficult task.

I would love to know how these guys did it--and I'm not going to rule out that someone provided them with the XDK or a whole host of internal docs to accomplish this.

At any rate, massive, massive props. I'll bet Microsoft has visited that site a few times in the last couple days. ;-)

--
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)

Re:This is an amazing feat by Anonymous Coward · 2002-01-12 06:29 · Score: 1, Insightful

Score: 3 ?????

It's a fake, you moron.

I think emulator is the wrong word.... by chronos2266 · 2002-01-12 05:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's more of a wrapper. Think about it, what is it emulating? The XBox uses an x86 cpu, direct3d, and a standard HD. No actual hardware is being emulated, instead they are just wrapping function calls to conventional PC calls. Either way I can't wait to play DOA3 on my CPU :)

Re:I think emulator is the wrong word.... by ZxCv · 2002-01-12 06:56 · Score: 2

Uh, how about the motherboard/chipset? From what I understand, the xbox has a vastly different cpu/memory architecture which would make emulating on a standard pc rather difficult. That was my first clue that this was a hoax. Then the MSN dll about sealed it.

--

Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Re:I think emulator is the wrong word.... by athmanb · 2002-01-12 12:55 · Score: 2

The problem is that even though most of the hardware is pretty standard, the memory architecture isn't.

The XBox stores all of its data in a single memory block, and all chips (CPU, GPU, sound etc.) have access to it. To emulate that just by wrappers so that 3d acceleration etc would still work is practically impossible.

You would need high level emulation or old fashioned virtual CPU to emulate an X-Box, and without a 10 GHz processor, this would not be playable.

Re:way to go! by inversesinewave · 2002-01-12 05:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well technically Microsoft loses about $90 per system sold. So if you really want to hurt MS, buy a ton of them but don't buy any games..

Does this actually work? by kawaichan · 2002-01-12 05:37 · Score: 2

I am pretty sure this is a hoax, anyone can confirm it actually works?

--

kawai

Re:Does this actually work? by Mr.+Marabou+Man · 2002-01-12 05:43 · Score: 3, Redundant

It is a hoax, look at the pics, its the official screens from the games, wit a photoshopped title bar and menu ... :P
Re:Does this actually work? by skotte · 2002-01-12 05:47 · Score: 1

yes it definitely works.
or, more specifically, there is a downloadable zip which seems to be what could be an emulator.
NO ROMS are available, so you cant test the gaming itself.
but there is definitely a site, which definitely has screen shots and definitely a downloadable executable in a zipped archive.
Re:Does this actually work? by hogsback · 2002-01-12 05:49 · Score: 1

Look at the files ...

" wolfconfig.cfg // id Software and Activision will NOT ask you to send this file to them."

why's that in an X-Box emulator?

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Hogsback
Re:Does this actually work? by CaseyB · 2002-01-12 05:49 · Score: 2

Of course it's a hoax.
Heck, any 14 year-old fanboy would have confirmed that it worked before posting it on his Geocities page. Not so here.
The real question is what does it actually do when you run it.
Re:Does this actually work? by skotte · 2002-01-12 06:04 · Score: 1

it does seem to use a variety of process modules. and it appears to run what could be considered a emulation startup process. it appears to load some libraries, it appears to attempt to load video and audio interfaces. i dont have any games so i cant test the actual gaming engine. but it appears to work. my guess is cmdrtaco got it fFully running.
Re:Does this actually work? by ThatComputerGuy · 2002-01-12 06:33 · Score: 1

Of course, all this means diddly squat until you try it.

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Re:Does this actually work? by CaseyB · 2002-01-12 06:48 · Score: 5, Redundant

Appears. The problem is that is DOES none of those things. The dlls and vxd are bogus files, copied from other software and renamed. The rest is just a simple VB application that shows menus and fails to initialize the video, so you can't run anything.

Article and link. by jarodss · 2002-01-12 05:39 · Score: 1, Redundant

The page
Welcome to the XBox Emulator by Linar

Here you can download the latest beta of our XBox Emulator. Most of the Games will work, but there is still much work to do.

News
11.01.2002
Version 0.35 is out. Some minor bugs are fixed
9.01.2002
We now have some sponsors, and we search for new members to join us.
7.01.2002
We had some Hardware Problems, so the release of the patch will be later, but check out the current version it should work well.

There will be an update to version 0.35 soon. It fixes the "Insert DVD" Error Message.

Screenshots
Here are some Screenshots, more will be added soon:
What, you expected pictures in a /. post?

Download
Download the file here: XBox Emulator Beta 0.34 (3MB)

Game Compatibility List

Working
StarWars Starfighter
UFC: Tapout
NHL 2002
Partially Working
Halo
The Simpsons Road Rage
Arctic Thunder
Kabuki Warriors
F1 2001
Not Working
NASCAR Heat

Hardware Requiremens

At least 1GHz Athlon/Duron/P3/P4
Nvidia Geforce Video/ATI Radeon only
256MB RAM
DVD ROM Drive

Known Bugs

Video flickering in some Games
Sporadic crashes.
Slow Performance on P3 Systems
General Problems with Intel CPUs
Not compatible to Kyro graphics
No Joystik support yet
OpenGL support only for nvidia gForce 2/3
No Gamepad Support yet

Contact

When you find any Bugs, or when you have questions about the Emulator, feel free to contact us: linarstudios@gmx.net

Inevitable? by artlu · 2002-01-12 05:39 · Score: 1

I think everyone in the world knew that a system built like a computer would be easily emulated on a computer. However, the speed at which this emulator came into the public eye is astonishing. Now.. if only i could find a PS2 emulator to play Final Fantasy X....
AJ

--
-------
artlu.net

Re:Inevitable? by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 11:45 · Score: 1

the speed at which this emulator came into the public eye is astonishing
"incredible" would be a better word in this case, as it has no credibility whatsoever. Careless posting by Taco.
This could have been serious, had the hoaxer desired to do real harm to people's systems. In fact, we still don't know that he doesn't, there could be a "time bomb" in there.

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

on my machine... by skotte · 2002-01-12 05:40 · Score: 1

it doesnt seem to recognize the video. specifically, "run emulator" gives the error "Unable to initialize video device".
yes, i've tried a bunch of different settings on this.

i just mention it, y'know, so if anyone else has this error, maybe you'll take some comfort knowing you're not alone. maybe you know a work-around.

(actually, it could just be my video card is too weak)

Why would MS complain by Toe,+The · 2002-01-12 05:41 · Score: 1

Why should MS care? They're one of the bigger game software producers around, so technically XB is cannibalizing their own market. What do they care if people run XB games on their MS Windows computer?

But more importantly, Microsoft kills off companies through anticompetitive BS all the time. Losing .01% of market share of one of their lower-profit products is the least that can be done to them.

MS will love this... by hey · 2002-01-12 05:41 · Score: 1

They subsidize the cost of the box hoping to regain the money when you buy games. If you use the emulater you save them then cost to helping you buy the box!!

MSWhat ???? by C0vardeAn0nim0 · 2002-01-12 05:42 · Score: 1

MSX ??? MicroSoft eXtended ???

someone in /. buying an 8 bit box with a microsoft BIOS ???

it's the end of the world...

--
What ? Me, worry ?

It's Fake by bparrish · 2002-01-12 05:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

The included xbox.vxd in the program is just a renamed Quake file

The xboxkrnl32.dll is a file from the Trilliam messenger program.

I'd run a virus scanner if you ran this fake emulator.

Re:It's Fake by baptiste · 2002-01-12 05:52 · Score: 5, Funny

LOL - I think /. needs a new section "Hoax of the Day" :)

--
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
Re:It's Fake by dapozza- · 2002-01-12 06:01 · Score: 2, Informative

indeed a fake ... you can clearly see TRILIAN in one of the DLL files. Wonder what it will do/delete.
Re:It's Fake by Juan|Corral · 2002-01-12 06:01 · Score: 5, Informative

Yup, "xbox.vxd" is a file from Wolfenstien actually..

"snd3d.dll" and "xboxkrnl32.dll" appear to be some sort of messaging program dll's.

The actual exe seems like it just loads BMP images when started.

Oh well, nice prank..
Re:It's Fake by bparrish · 2002-01-12 06:06 · Score: 1

So far, it doesn't appear to be a virus or trojan. Just a harmless hoax.
Re:It's Fake by slashdot2.2sucks · 2002-01-12 06:11 · Score: 1

snd3d.dll is from MSN messinger.

I just looked through the files in binary

The exe doesn't contain any ASCII text strings
looks like a VB program
Re:It's Fake by beee · 2002-01-12 06:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

UPDATE by HeUnique:Is this emulator a fake? according to these messages in the XBox Hacker web site - this is a fake one. Could someone actually try it? Someone like, perhaps, your fellow editors who posted the story?

--

+ Donald Gunth
+ Email: dgunth@quicktek.net
"Caffeine is the greatest lubricant ever created." -ESR
Re:It's Fake by multisync · 2002-01-12 06:32 · Score: 1

why was this comment modded down? seems like a fair question to me.

--
I don't care why you're posting AC
Re:It's Fake by simm_s · 2002-01-12 08:19 · Score: 1

Yeah a simple analysis shows that the xbox_emulator.exe was written in Borland Delphi.
What a joke.

The least they could have done is copy the XBOX intro movie and play it while the user starts it up. They could have also accessed data the DVD-ROM drive to mimic data access. This is just stupid, not even worthy of an April fool jokes.
Re:It's Fake by uberman · 2002-01-12 19:49 · Score: 1

The exe appears to be a compiled Visual Basic executable, sprinkled throughout the EXE are references to:

Font.Color
FormResize
TabOrder
...

uberman
Re:It's Fake by Cruciform · 2002-01-13 11:46 · Score: 1

Yeah, there's also an emulator that's using Red Alert executables and messenger DLL's out there. Heh, I can't believe Slashdot reported it as a new item right off the bat, rather than check it out first.
Oh well, anyone nuts enough to run this stuff without investigating it first deserves whatever little presents they receive :)

WHOA! by jsb2 · 2002-01-12 05:43 · Score: 1

Now I can play XBOX and MS can kiss my ass on making any money off the hardware on me.

Ahh the power of EMUs

Re:WHOA! by k_187 · 2002-01-12 09:30 · Score: 1

ok, first off, its a hoax, see all the other posts. Second, MS has admited that they are loseing money on each console sold. They make their money on software sales. (not too unlike the rest of the industry). Secondly, if you are seriously thinking of pirating the ROMs, THE THINGS ARE ON FRIGGIN DVDS. I personally am not going to the trouble of downloading 4.7 gigs of stuff just to screw over M$

--
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112

Re:way to go! by Legion303 · 2002-01-12 05:43 · Score: 3, Informative

Even better, don't buy any. MS has already spent the money to produce XBoxes--if you buy one, you're just helping them recoup some of that cost. By not buying one, they're still out the total cost. Which brings us to: "Total Cost of Ownership" for MS. Got to be in the millions.

-Legion

How they did it by Anonymous Coward · 2002-01-12 05:44 · Score: 1, Insightful

Although the site is sparse on technical details, it's not hard to guess how they did it.

Since the Xbox games use a Win32/DirectX API, they probably just threw away the Xbox-specific stuff and linked the binaries against the standard Windows DLLs.

I really doubt these guys even looked at the Xbox BIOS.

Re:How they did it by Namarrgon · 2002-01-12 11:50 · Score: 1

You don't know anything about all this, do you?

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

Karma Whoring is bad for your soul...but by Spackler · 2002-01-12 05:45 · Score: 1, Redundant

Welcome to the XBox Emulator by Linar

Here you can download the latest beta of our XBox Emulator. Most of the Games will work, but there is still much work to do.

News
11.01.2002
Version 0.35 is out. Some minor bugs are fixed
9.01.2002
We now have some sponsors, and we search for new members to join us.
7.01.2002
We had some Hardware Problems, so the release of the patch will be later, but check out the current version it should work well.

There will be an update to version 0.35 soon. It fixes the "Insert DVD" Error Message.

Screenshots
Here are some Screenshots, more will be added soon:

----snip couple of photoshop gifs----

Game Compatibility List

Working Partially Working Not Working
StarWars Starfighter
UFC: Tapout
NHL 2002 Halo
The Simpsons Road Rage
Arctic Thunder
Kabuki Warriors
F1 2001 NASCAR Heat

Hardware Requiremens

At least 1GHz Athlon/Duron/P3/P4
Nvidia Geforce Video/ATI Radeon only
256MB RAM
DVD ROM Drive

Known Bugs

Video flickering in some Games
Sporadic crashes.
Slow Performance on P3 Systems
General Problems with Intel CPUs
Not compatible to Kyro graphics
No Joystik support yet
OpenGL support only for nvidia gForce 2/3
No Gamepad Support yet

Contact

When you find any Bugs, or when you have questions about the Emulator, feel free to contact us: linarstudios@gmx.net

Why not just write emulators? by sterno · 2002-01-12 05:46 · Score: 2, Redundant

What I don't fathom is why people release these game consoles where they lose money on the hardware to make up for it on the licensing. I mean heck, just release some VM for a broad base of PC hardware and charge people license fees to publish for it. Then sell

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This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service

Re:Why not just write emulators? by vtechpilot · 2002-01-12 06:24 · Score: 1

The simple answer to your question is console games are marketed to people who don't have a PC.

Technically the windows API is an emulator of sorts. It provides a level of abstraction that makes it fairly easy to write a game for and have it work on most machines. There really are only two advantages to console gaming. Less fuss over hardware and bios/os issues because they are all practically identical, and Cost.

Why would I as a developer want to write a high performance game to run inside an emulator. I'd get better preformace coding to the OS instead of inside yet another layer of performace sucking bloat. However it does raise the interesting possibilty for OS independant games, but Java can do that and I haven't seen any killer games written in Java.

Most people who play a game (say Tony Hawk 2) on a PC and on a console will all agree the PC version is better if only for video resolution alone. Most people who own a console and a PC will usually opt for the PC version if the title is available on both. One of the few reasons a PC owner would get a console is if a really great title was only available on that console.

Oh, one more thing, how am I going to convince cost aware customers that they are better off buying a $1000 PC to play my games instead of a $300 Xbox? The idea only really works for customers who already own a PC, which explains the huge selection of PC titles on the shelf at best buy.

I could keep going but I'll stop now.

--
Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
Re:Why not just write emulators? by AcdFlashBk · 2002-01-12 06:26 · Score: 1

I think the idea is to secure a market share. For example if game companies used an emulator then you could run several game consoles from your system. However, if you invest in their console and have it physically in your living room you're more likely to only buy their games (or licenced games). I hope that makes some sense.
Re:Why not just write emulators? by nettdata · 2002-01-12 06:38 · Score: 2

What I don't fathom is why people release these game consoles where they lose money on the hardware to make up for it on the licensing. I mean heck, just release some VM for a broad base of PC hardware and charge people license fees to publish for it.

Because it's just like a Drug Dealer's marketting plan... "the first one is free", or in this case, "almost free". I believe that MS is trying to get their hooks into the home/living-room electronics arena, where THEIR machine will (hopefully, from their POV) be the central device for more than just playing games... cd player, dvd player, internet phone, maybe central network device for home, pay per view device, TIVO, IP Phone/Video conferencing device, etc. Who knows what they're going to want to do with it?

By lowering the price of the hardware to the point of losing a TRIVIAL amount of money (in the big picture), they are ensuring themselves of getting a higher and QUICKER penetration into the market.

It's the same reason for them to go out and buy Bungie so that they could release HALO exclusively on the XBox. I know it worked in my case, as that was the ONLY reason why I bought an X-Box. I've been following HALO for over a year, watching Steve Jobs demo/highlight it at all the Apple PR events, and you better believe I was more than a little pissed to find out that it was bought/assimilated by MS.

To think I spent $500 (CDN) to play a video game. Sucks to be me.

:)

--

$0.02 (CDN)
Re:Why not just write emulators? by Jace+of+Fuse! · 2002-01-12 06:38 · Score: 2

That's called AMIGA DE.

--

"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"

Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Re:Why not just write emulators? by popoutman · 2002-01-12 14:47 · Score: 1

Off-topic. I have heard that redhat 7.1 will install and run quite well without tweaking on an xbox dev platform, but not on a public release platform. So much for MS saying that the Xbox is not a PC... Time to start work on sniffing for the keys that the public release uses for transmission across the buses....

--
- This sig deliberately left blank. Nothing to see, move along.

As an Xbox developer... by MaestroSartori · 2002-01-12 05:47 · Score: 5, Troll

I'd take with a BIG pinch of salt. Why? Well, lets see: the DVDs are encrypted, and the decoding is done in hardware (as far as I know). The GeForce 3 doesn't have the same hardware capabilities as the Xbox GPU, and grinds to a halt in a 1.7GHz system when trying to do similar effects to the ones I run fairly easily on an Xbox. And those two are just off the top of my head. I think this is fake. Even if its not, it'll run like a dog when the graphics card can't do the T&L and shaders in hardware...

--
Sartori

--
Game dev and music blog

Re:As an Xbox developer... by TheOnlyCoolTim · 2002-01-12 08:30 · Score: 1

The reason your Geforce is slowing down trying to do effects you have seen on X box is that your computer is probably rendering at 1024x768 or higher and the X box I believe renders at 640x480 or possibly lower. Televisions have crappy resolution.

--
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.

I don't think this is real. by Anonymous+CowboyNeal · 2002-01-12 05:47 · Score: 1

I may not be the first naysayer, because I'm reading at +2, but if there are other more informative posts than mine, please mod them up. Anyway, I don't have any xbox games, but if you strings xbox.vxd, it looks like it has code from *wolfenstein* (the new one) in it. "maps/*.bsp", "Wolf 1.0.0", "D:\....\WolfSP.pdb" ... this doesn't seem right. I wonder if this code is really actually ever used by the emulator!

I'll post more on this thread if I find more, I just wanted to get the word out.

It is a Hoax. Why does a Hoax get the Front page? by Mello · 2002-01-12 05:48 · Score: 1

Does anyone even check these stories out before they get posted?

It's a Hoax.

Hoax. Did I mention it's a Hoax.

Re:Hoax by AndrewHowe · 2002-01-12 05:50 · Score: 2

Seconded. No way is this for real.

Complete Emulation? Not likely for now... by The+Optimizer · 2002-01-12 05:50 · Score: 2

I don't think we are going to see complete emulation because there a few things that the NV2A chipset can do like some of the shader operations (and games like Shrek that use them out the wazoo and nearly max out internal bandwidth while doing so) that just aren't possible on other existing video chipsets, or are terribly impractical on a non unified memory system (like treating your z-buffer as a texture and processing it back through the shaders - putting your AGP bus into a read dword/write dword back loop would kill all performance)

The games they have working are games that probably don't use features that were new to xbox/NV2A chipset, or stress the system to its limits. i.e. games that closly resemble their PC counterparts. Later Xbox releases are much more likely to take advantage of the system's features and push it to limits, makeing them much harder to emulate.

However, this could change once nVidia releases it successor to the NV20/GeForce 3, as that product may include all of the functionality of the NV2A chipset used in the Xbox. The Unified Memory/bandwidth situation will remain a problem and bottleneck though.

Still, I don't think this will make a big difference - I prefer playing my console games on a console and my PC games on a PC, and I suspect most people who play these games will be the same way.

(Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not represent those of my employer)

Linux boot disc for XBox coming soon? by Maul · 2002-01-12 05:52 · Score: 5, Informative

It is my understanding that the XBox has some sort
of protection scheme on both the games and the hardware so that

1) You can't play games without the proper key on
them in the XBox.

2) Games won't play without the XBox's key.

I might be wrong, or oversimplifying it, but
this is my understanding. The Games require the XBox key, and the XBox requires a Game's key.

It is apparent that these people who made this,
provided that it works (I haven't tried it yet, since I've got no XBox games), must know SOMETHING about this if my understanding is correct.

Some people on /. have suggested that documentation was somehow leaked about the protection scheme.
Either that or it was cracked. Neither would
surprise me.

If this is the case, then I'm wondering if this
information could be used to make a Linux install
disc for the XBox, one that had a valid key to be
played.

Can anyone with any more knowledge of the XBox give
any insight on the possibility of this?

--

"You spoony bard!" -Tellah

Re:Linux boot disc for XBox coming soon? by dark+druid · 2002-01-12 05:58 · Score: 1

Not likely. In order for a game to be played on the X-BOX it has to be cryptographically signed using the Microsoft private key. The odds of MS signing a Linux boot disk are a heck of a lot worse than the odds of you winning Powerball.

I think the only way you will get an X-Box booting Linux is if you are *really* good with a soldering iron and replace half the chips on the X-Box motherboard.
Re:Linux boot disc for XBox coming soon? by bparrish · 2002-01-12 05:59 · Score: 1

I don't think we'll see a Linux disc for XBox for a long time.

Nobody seems to be getting very far in the XBOX hacking scene (www.xboxhacker.net)

It looks like the XBOX has more security than any other console out right now. Which is too bad, because I *really* want a DiVX and MP3 player for the XBox, and it has more than enough power to do it.

Hoax? by icemind · 2002-01-12 05:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

Must be. a) The XBox DVD drive spins backwards to read the data b) It lists Soul Calibre 2 as a working game. Soul Calibre 2 isn't even out yet, not even in the arcades. Oh, and c) They stole the screenshots from IGN, for example:

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/mediaPage.jsp?media_i d= 171619&object_id=16612&media_type=R&ign_section=27 &page_title=The+Simpsons+Road+Rage+review+on+xbox. ign.com&adtag=network%3Dign%26site%3Dxboxviewer%26 adchannel%3Dxbox%26pagetype%3Darticle&return_url=h ttp%3A%2F%2Fxbox.ign.com%2Freviews%2F16612.html

Damn that long link. ;) But anway, I'm 99% sure this is fake.

- icemind

Re:Hoax? by icemind · 2002-01-12 05:54 · Score: 1

Here's a better formated link
Re:Hoax? by Anonymous Coward · 2002-01-12 09:23 · Score: 1, Funny

The XBox DVD drive spins backwards to read the data
Is that like playing records backwards to hear the hidden messages from the devil?
Re:Hoax? by guttentag · 2002-01-13 12:38 · Score: 1

The XBox DVD drive spins backwards to read the data

That's really a fascinating bit of info... so if you play an XBox DVD forward do you hear angelic messages?
I... buried... Paul... becomes I... installed... Linux...?

Re:I've always wanted to buy a Xbox... by Enzo90910 · 2002-01-12 05:52 · Score: 1

Yeah, this one is a good one! But will you be able o stop from buying games after that? It still a steep price to pay just to tap into Bill's pockets.
Hey, you US citizens out there! THAT is a great way to improve your economy, improving the cashflow without any money back in Bill's pocket becomes difficult these days.....

--
I don't have much to add.

Well, is it for real, or not? by Animats · 2002-01-12 05:52 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Is this for real? People are still arguing here.

Re:Well, is it for real, or not? by Animats · 2002-01-12 08:27 · Score: 2

Offtopic? There's a real question as to whether the X-box emulator being discussed actually works, or is some kind of hoax or Trojan attack. Has anyone actually been able to download the thing and successfully run a game? Or has anyone established that the downloaded program can't possibly work.

Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by Gridle · 2002-01-12 05:53 · Score: 5, Informative

Slashdot has sunk to a new low. We all knew it had absolutely no journalistic integrity, but come on, you could at least use your brains before accepting this sort of submission. And the previous screw-up, 100:1 lossless compression. Yeah, right. Why the hell are people so gullible these days?

At the moment, no computer on this planet has enough juice to emulate the Xbox (No, not even the supercomputers which have 9,600 CPUs - because multiple CPUs don't make it any faster to emulate a single CPU), not to mention that nobody has been able to dump the contents of the HDs, the DVDs nor has anybody been able to crack the encryption of the Xbox BIOS. Additionally, the unified memory architecture makes it impossible to emulate the Xbox on a PC like a virtual machine. An interpretive or dynamic recompiling CPU core with everything else re-implemented is the only way, and that simply won't happen during the next decade because of the sheer complexity of such a project and because of getting sued to hell by Microsoft.

They've just renamed a bunch of common files to make it look neat. But no matter how much you want it to be true, it is just a poor fake.

In a related matter, no much how you want the Xbox MAME, you will never get it. The developer cannot release his port, because software developed on the Xbox dev kit can't be released to public domain. Just stick with the good old PC versions, which are also available for *nix / Linux. :)

Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by SteveX · 2002-01-12 06:07 · Score: 5, Informative

The XBox HD contents have been dumped; read up on it at www.xboxhacker.net. It's going to be a lot of work for anyone to make an emulator, or even to get unsigned code to run on the box - but some progress has been made..
The XBox uses the IDE password mechanism to prevent you from dropping the drive into a PC and reading it, but if you connect the drive to the PC *after* the XBox has unlocked it (without resetting the drive), then you can read from it. Course your PC BIOS didn't see it at boot so you need to write custom software to talk to it.. but that's been done..
The folks at xboxhacker are very determined. It's fun to watch.
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by nettdata · 2002-01-12 06:42 · Score: 2

Slashdot should make a "yeah right" or "believe it if you want to" category for these types of stories so that you know before going into it that it's going to be a merry slash-fest of "bullshit!"

--

$0.02 (CDN)
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by nomadic · 2002-01-12 08:00 · Score: 1

What's next?

Cold fusion reality!

Brooklyn Bridge for Sale
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by Jimmy_B · 2002-01-12 09:02 · Score: 5, Informative

At the moment, no computer on this planet has enough juice to emulate the Xbox (No, not even the supercomputers which have 9,600 CPUs - because multiple CPUs don't make it any faster to emulate a single CPU)

That is absolutely false. The XBox's CPU is just an Intel CPU, which most home computers have something similar to, so not much needs to be done to emulate that (maybe emulate a few instructions, or shift opcodes). The video is handled through DirectX and an nVidia video chip; again, most people already have something similar, and minimal translation is necessary.

People said that emulating the Nintendo 64 was impossible, but that was done, not by emulating the hardware at a low level, but through high-level emulation. Compatibility is slightly less, but it's orders faster.

The fact that the XBox hasn't been fully reverse-engineered yet is an obstacle to making an emulator, yes, and this particular "emulator" is clearly a hoax, but it is by no means impossible.
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by josh+crawley · 2002-01-12 09:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

Let's leave the Slashdot 'no news' story out for a minute. Let's focus on the TRUE emulation for a minute.

1: It is known that the CPU inside a Xbox is a 733P3.

2: The ram is standard sdram, and there is a known ram 'hack' to add more (being there is connections on the motherboard to do so.

3: The HD is a standard IDE HD, using standard 'home use' parts.

4: The graphics chipset (by Nvidia), could probably be 'instruction linked'to that of a heavily modified Geforce3. I know of no better way to describe this other than comparing the Voodoo2 Chipset to the N64 console. Using a High Level Emulation layer, N64's calls were mapped easily to the Glide DLL that of a Voodoo2

My idea would to map the instructions found on the HD and the Game dvd's to determine patters of data, and write interfaces (along with a processing power of a another 733P3 (used to preprocess the data for the gfx card) and a Geforce3. With the BIOS matter, I'd dump memory from RAM and look for telltale signs of mirroring of the BIOS in ram. If that wouldn't work, use a Linux boot disk (the netplay one) and have debug tools to pull the encrypted BIOS image off to another medium. My premise is that if the console can decrypt it (and can start the machine up), we can decrypt it too, by hand if nessisary.

Josh Crawley

ps: The emulation community didn't think the N64 could be emulated at all.
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by prisoner-of-enigma · 2002-01-12 14:51 · Score: 1

At the moment, no computer on this planet has enough juice to emulate the Xbox

What planet do you live on? Guess what's inside an Xbox? An Intel CPU (not even a P4), some NVidia graphics hardware (not any better than a Ti500) and NVidia sound (no better than nForce). There's nothing magical inside hardware-wise that can't be easily duplicated on a PC, so no emulation would be needed.

What is difficult is what's on the Xbox ROM's, which no one has decoded yet that we know of. But that's not emulation, that's porting. The insides of an Xbox are so close to a standard PC that it would probably be child's play to port the "OS" that the Xbox uses, if only someone had the time and tools to decompile it.

--
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by Jagasian · 2002-01-12 19:45 · Score: 2

Yeah except that 100:1 compression for arbitrary (i.e. "random") binary strings is impossible. This doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
Re:Unbelievable. Un-fucking-believable. by M3wThr33 · 2002-01-12 20:00 · Score: 1

Right. The general rule of console emulation requires a ten-fold power increase. However, this power is used to compensate for the radical differences in the processors and chips on the boards. The XBox's architecture is so similar to a high-end PC that emulation will need little more than new device drivers, unencrypting the OS and a strong determination to fight M$.

The REAL proof that these are hoaxes is that they are still on the net. You seriously think M$ would let these be exposed to the net for more than a day? The day a functional emulator is released M$ is going to snuff it out quicker than UltraHLE did it themselves.

I just opened up the emulator ... by Forager · 2002-01-12 05:53 · Score: 1

Under the DVD options it asks for the decryption type. The options it offers are DeCSS or RSA. Does this mean that DeCSS is incorporated into the software? If it does, would that make this software illegal? Also, what was the license on DeCSS?

Just wondering.

~A.

--
student of animation and the fine arts

A New Standard for Compatibility? by nosse_elendili · 2002-01-12 05:53 · Score: 1

Perhaps the X-Box will become an all purpose standard for gaming hardware (much like in the early days of sound cards when the Soundblaster was the standard and all other brands attempted compatibility with it).

If all new video cards had "X-Box compatibility", wouldn't it make game development a little easier? New features could always be added, but the X-Box could define a base set of features that developers could depend on. In effect this could maintain the benefits of console development (fixed hardware) while allowing competitive products to keep the market price down (of course, Microsoft is the only one with enough monopoly power to actually sell below cost) and allow new features to be added if necessary.

It's a hoax... by dark+druid · 2002-01-12 05:55 · Score: 2, Informative

Yay, for journalistic integrity on Slashdot yet again. When this got sent around some X-Box lists I'm on last week we quickly found out this was a hoax. The "emulator" is some random files zipped up and all the "screen shots" very conveniently happen to be exactly the same as some posted on the web.

Can a PC DVD drive even read an X-Box disk?

Re:It's a hoax... by Namarrgon · 2002-01-12 12:54 · Score: 2

Can a PC DVD drive even read an X-Box disk?
Not exactly. All you see is a 130 MB partition with some DVD-Video files (an Xbox logo/trailer & a message in multiple languages to the effect of "This is an Xbox disc. Go put it in your Xbox instead.")
But it's a standard DVD-9 disc. The rest is in a custom filesystem. Doubtless you could read the datablocks directly, but you'd have to write a filesystem driver, or an extracter of some kind.

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

Re:Emu X-box by baptiste · 2002-01-12 05:55 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Yeah, but no way this got done in this little amount of time given how Microsoft worked to secure the Xbox system and inner workings. Can we say hoax?

--
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages

Re:Totally, utterly wrong by The+Great+Wakka · 2002-01-12 05:56 · Score: 1

First off, I said I might be wrong. So you can't critize me.

Second of all, Win2k == NT5.

Third of all, nVidia's "next generation chipset" at the time of the XBox's announcement was the GeForce 3.

Fourth of all, I could still be wrong.

--
Everything is mainstream now.

Hoax by CaseyB · 2002-01-12 05:57 · Score: 2, Redundant

If people haven't noticed that the "screenshots" all replicate shots already published on the web, you can look at the files: The two DLLs are from MSN Messenger, and the VXD is a file from Wolfenstein 3D.

You have all been trolled by Slashdot.

if (Emulator == Hoax) modify(*comments); by The+Optimizer · 2002-01-12 05:57 · Score: 2

Since the site was /.'ed I couldn't get the files to check out.

In any case, if it as hoax as being reported, most of my comments still stand - that the archeticural differences and unique chipset features of the xBox would be the hardest things to emulate in a way that provided adequate performance.

I still remember when UltraHLE came out - and with that in mind, I don't dismiss the possibilut of Xbox emulation - I just don't think it'll be practical in a way like MAME is for a long, long time.

(Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not represent those of my employer)

Re:if (Emulator == Hoax) modify(*comments); by Alan+Partridge · 2002-01-12 12:14 · Score: 1

that's stupid - you can do a complete hardware emu without necessarily running at full speed. Many emulators are in this position until the their platform catches up.

--
That was classic intercourse!

What I find interesting by prisoner · 2002-01-12 05:57 · Score: 1, Interesting

are the posts saying the MS should be happy as the console is sold at a loss and the games at a profit. I would be very suprised if Microsoft's plans stop at the X-box being a gaming console. While they might not be too peeved by this development as they'll make money on the games, I would bet that this emulator does mess up the overall X-box strategy. Dunno, maybe I'm giving them too much credit but with a network connection and a 8 gig disk it would seem to capable of much more....

Virus/hoax by sludgely · 2002-01-12 05:58 · Score: 1

I wish someone would explain to me why xboxkrnl32.dll is essentially a renamed msn messenger dll. Check the string references in that. It seems like it is the exact same thing that msn messenger would use. Maybe its a virus using msn messenger to spread info about your computer/trojan sending ip address/etc. I would be careful people.

Re:Virus/hoax by sludgely · 2002-01-12 06:01 · Score: 1

P.S. I know it is lame to reply to my own posts, but i just realized this. Look in the snd3d.dll now. It has the exact same msn messenger string references as the other dll had. It seems to be the exact same file with a 16 kilobyte file difference. Uh oh.

fake fake fake by Hunterdvs · 2002-01-12 05:59 · Score: 1

Editing the xbox kernal dll shows it's obviously not a kernal dll. Come on, trillian? Doesn't anyone check this stuff out? bparrish is right, this is bunk bunk bunk fubarred bunk.

I think this one is a hoax by SmackyTheFrog · 2002-01-12 05:59 · Score: 1

Like someoen said, I saw this link a week ago I think and remember reading that it was a hoax.

The contents of the files are.. by Gridle · 2002-01-12 06:02 · Score: 5, Informative

I actually went and checked the files.

snd3d.dll is from MSN Messenger

xbox.vxd is a data file from Return to Castle Wolfenstein

xboxkrnl32.dll is from Trillian (another messenger program)

xbox_emulator.0.35.exe is a Visual Basic program compiled to .exe form that uses the c:\con\con trick to induce the Blue Screen of Death on unpatched Win9x systems.

Re:way to go! by bojolais · 2002-01-12 06:04 · Score: 5, Informative

And, even better yet... go throw $300 at a PS2 now, so you can throw another $100-150 for hardware when the network capability is available? After all, Sony is the most benevolent of companies, feeding the hungry and healing the sick. Downright charitable. Sheesh.

The console industry defined itself from its inception as an arena for hard-core capitalist corporations to milk maximum revenue from content providers and customers. Microsoft deserves a place in that wonderful market segment as much as any other.

If you want to exercise some philosophical consistency, remove Windows and Microsoft Office from every machine you own and/or use (no, you don't deserve to use stolen M$ software just because you disagree with their criminal business practices) and feel comfortable owning both a PS2 and an Xbox. If you want to gripe indirectly about the way a relatively free capitalist economy works, try making a difference for a change.

Very Fake by Serfer · 2002-01-12 06:04 · Score: 1

Come on. Everyone figured out this was fake a week ago.
Does anyone actually check out stories before they're posted? Or is this one of those things where you write a story, and then later post a small retraction on the 4th page.

Fake as Pamela Anderson's Breasts by johngute · 2002-01-12 06:08 · Score: 1

The emulator is another FAKE HOAX!. The author created a fancy front end then added a bunch of "support" DLL's with legitimate sounding names to trick eveyone.

The files snd3d.dll and xboxkrnl32.dll, which I assume were suppose to make you believe are the sound and Kernal library files for the emulator are 100% identical. They are also files from MSN messenger.

The xbox.vxd file is actually from Red Alert.

Grphx.dll is actually the german language notepad. (rename it to notepad.exe and it runs)

Rename crypt.vxd to crypt.exe and you get some christmas demonstration program

Re:Fake as Pamela Anderson's Breasts by k_187 · 2002-01-12 09:33 · Score: 1

ok , 2 quick things.

1) Pamela Anderson had her implants removed. so technically they aren't "fake any longer"
2) the phrase "fake hoax" is redundant.

That is all(so sayeth the Grammar Nazi)

--
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
Re:Fake as Pamela Anderson's Breasts by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 12:11 · Score: 1

Pamela Anderson had her implants removed. so technically they aren't "fake any longer"
No, she removed the XXXL-size implants and had the XL ones reinstalled.
How dare you be so ill-informed!?!!

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

Another "xbox Emulator" by Tony.Tang · 2002-01-12 06:09 · Score: 1

Actually, there's another fake that's pretty cool to look at too:

http://www.xboxemu.fr.fm/... I think that someone suggested the screenshots were cut-and-pasted digicam pictures. ;)

Rule 'o' Thumb: If it's on the internet, it must be true!

HeUnique by SteveX · 2002-01-12 06:09 · Score: 2

Does HeUnique even read the messages on his own site? Folks here figured out pretty quickly that it's obviously a fake, and he posts an update to the story asking someone to try it.

Re:It's Fake (but...) by artoo · 2002-01-12 06:10 · Score: 2, Funny

It works EXACTLY the same under wine as it does in windows, which is kinda nice.

Definitely a hoax by estoll · 2002-01-12 06:13 · Score: 1

This is definitely a hoax because all the screen shots are from game review sites.

--
http://www.askthevoid.com

WARNING: POSSIBLE TROJAN OR HOAX!!! by JackAsh · 2002-01-12 06:15 · Score: 3, Redundant

I just downloaded it and tried to run Halo, no luck. I meet the published reqs: P3 1Ghz, GF3, SbLive, WinXP, 512MB ram, DVD player, so there's no reason for the software not to work. The program didn't even attempt to access my DVD drive.

Running strings on some of the files revealed a bunch of QuakeIII/Team Arena/Wolfenstein strings, and on another of the files a whole bunch of Microsoft Messenger/Trillian stuff.

This made it appear as though the software was a hoax of some type, and some of the files were just filler.

I tried logging connections at my Linksys while running the software but didn't see anything going on. At all.

I'd suggest to every interested party that they download the software - just in case it is proven to work later and Microsoft goes ballistic and forces people to take it down - but don't run it until someone posts a proper disassembly of the program. Please also keep in mind where this is coming from - some random site in Russia. Not to say anything bad about our frozen neighbors, but there's been a lot of scams from that area.

Caveat Emptor.

JackAsh

FAKE !! FAKE !! FAKE !! by Zurk · 2002-01-12 06:17 · Score: 5, Informative

guys...dont try this. its a FAKE. and its possibly a TROJAN.
The PC DVD drives cant even read XBOX disks. i tried it out and it has a fancy splash screen and shit but it doesnt do anything with an XBOX DVD loaded. DONT DOWNLOAD IT. it seems to modify files (possibly). i whacked up a ghosted image of win on a spare PC and ran the software. it didnt do anything with an XBOX DVD and it seemed to modify a few files (i ran sentinel on the partition before and after running it). i dont knwo if it is a trojan..i just reghosted the entire machine in case.

Re:FAKE !! FAKE !! FAKE !! by nomadic · 2002-01-12 07:32 · Score: 1, Insightful

This should have raised a lot of red flags...I mean, 2 months after the xbox is released would they really have something? Look how long it took to get Wine to even work partially...
Re:FAKE !! FAKE !! FAKE !! by _Bean_ · 2002-01-12 09:03 · Score: 1

Gameboy Advance was emulated before it was released.
Re:FAKE !! FAKE !! FAKE !! by Grahf666 · 2002-01-12 09:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Does the Gameboy Advance have a more powerful graphics card than most computers? No.

There was a Macintosh PS2 emu hoax going around a few months ago. Just a hoax, of course.

The really obvious thing that raises bells in my head is how much CPU/graphics power would be needed to emulate any next gen system. You need an okay system (PII, Voodoo 2) to emulate an N64/PSX with decent frames. There aren't aren't any Dreamcast emulators that can even run full games, and that thing's been out for years. Barring some new emulation technology that has been discovered, it is absolutely preposterous to think that this would NOT be a hoax.

A good analogy would be this: the PSX has a 33 mhz processor in it. Somehow, I really doubt that old 386, one of similar power to the ancient PSX, lying in the basement would be a good platform to run PSX roms on. The Xbox is of equivalent power to modern PC's. Traditionally, one must have far greater power than the original console to emulate its games with decent speed.

The pictures of the games they show are most likely screengrabs from a real Xbox. Where they taken from the emulator (assuming it is real at all, which it isn't) I would expect to see extreme visual artifacts, probably no textures, and maybe a fps counter reading ".1 fps."
Re:FAKE !! FAKE !! FAKE !! by atam · 2002-01-12 10:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

A good analogy would be this: the PSX has a 33 mhz processor in it. Somehow, I really doubt that old 386, one of similar power to the ancient PSX, lying in the basement would be a good platform to run PSX roms on. The Xbox is of equivalent power to modern PC's. Traditionally, one must have far greater power than the original console to emulate its games with decent speed.

This is general true for emulating a console game machine based on a different processor than your native machine. So to emulate a PSX you have to emulate a MIPS R4400 processor on your x86 PC. And it could be very slow. However in the case of XBOX, it uses X86 processor just like a PC. So there is a potential huge saving for not needng to emulating the foreign CPU. In addition, it is likely that the XBOX uses a bastarded version Windows/DirectX (MS is preaching Windows Everywhere (TM), don't they?). So once the difference could be configured out, it is possible to write a layer to map the XBOX calls directly to the PC Windows/DirectX environment.

I am not saying that it could be easy. But there is a hugh pool of knowledgable people who are very proficient in low level details of Windows API. So I am pretty sure that eventually we would have an XBOX emulator that runs at decent, maybe even native speed.
Re:FAKE !! FAKE !! FAKE !! by Ybrog · 2002-01-12 10:31 · Score: 1

Yeah, more or less you're right. It's like watching DVD's on your computer compared to off a dvd player on your TV. The comp is all software, the dvd player is all hardware. I'd be surprised if you could emulate xbox games on current computers and get playable frames.

Atari > Xbox in my opinion!

--
bleh

Re:Totally, utterly wrong by Nullsmack · 2002-01-12 06:19 · Score: 1

It's actually a Geforce 3 with an extra Vertex Pipeline tacked on. There are ppl who will try to tell you differently, like it's somewhere halfway between a geforce 3 and a geforce 4. If that's true, then I'm very disappointed in the GF4 already.

BTW, before the first actual dev kits shipped, there were shipping instructions and software to use on a normal computer with a GF3... So the developers could start making the games.
Don't try to tell me or anyone else here that it's impossible to run Xbox games on a computer :P By the time games come out that use the extra vertex pipeline, we'll have GF4's.

Re:Emu X-box by AndrewHowe · 2002-01-12 06:20 · Score: 5, Informative

"not a hoax"
Wrong.
"the directX libraries are the same on the XBOX and a PC"
Wrong.
- An XBox developer

Simple answer. by oGMo · 2002-01-12 06:30 · Score: 2

Companies don't just write a game VM because, while it may be cheaper for the company, a console is cheaper for most people. Hardcore PC gamers may have a GHz athlon with a top-of-the-line video card, DVD-ROM, etc., but a sizeable portion of the console population does not.

Heck, I do Linux development, and I only have a dual p2-350 with a gf2mx. Having a really fast system might be nice, but what I've got is sufficient for what I do. The fact I prefer console games coupled with the fact that the cost upgrading my box to something sufficiently new would be many times more than a $300 unit (a PS2 in my case) pretty much ties it up. (I like avoiding the Microsoft tax, too. ;-))

For most families, upgrading their box doesn't happen often, if ever. If they have a sufficiently new machine, it may have what it takes to play current-generation games. If not, the idea of opening up their box and finding the necessary parts to play a game is probably not something they want to hassle with. On the other hand, spending $200-300 on a drop-in solution where they can pick any game off the shelf and know it works is quite desirable. After all, they probably did the same thing with the rest of their "home entertainement system" (DVD player, stereo system, TV, etc.).

Since most of the time companies actually make money on their consoles, this is all just icing on the cake. People want a simple product, they want the games, and companies profit on both and get a wider audience to boot. Developers like it for all the reasons that have been discussed repeatedly (single uniform platform, optimized for gaming), thus line up to make games.

In the end, having a VM would be nice for users who already have high-end machines, but that's just not a large enough audience. Doing both would be nice, but supporting a VM on a wide range of platforms would be a major cost with little revenue. (Mostly support costs, theoretically you could make up what a console would profit you from off-the-shelf prices, but there's also "piracy" to contend with.) Arguably, you'd never get the same level of optimization, either. (Developers like having low-level hardware access.)

Console hardware is just a better business decision for most places.

--

Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

Slashdot Editors forgot about their comments by Calle+Ballz · 2002-01-12 06:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

UPDATE by HeUnique:Is this emulator a fake? according to these messages in the XBox Hacker web site - this is a fake one. Could someone actually try it?

Read the comments on your own website! Plenty of people have tried it, it is a simple application designed to give a video error message (Unable to initialize display, or something)... to make people think it's just their box. Read the comments above me, and giving a few more minutes, below me as well... A majority of them are people's personal experiences.

Really now... by GiorgioG · 2002-01-12 06:32 · Score: 1

Could someone actually try it?

Taco, why don't you try it yourself?

Expected Response:
&nbsp &nbsp &nbspBut I run Linux!

So try it under WINE!

Not a known virus (I hope).... by poteet · 2002-01-12 06:32 · Score: 1

I just ran every virus scanning software imagineable after running the emulator and nothing turned up. Hopefully this is just someone having fun at our expense...

--
"Sometimes nothin' is a pretty cool hand." - Cool Hand Luke

Re:yeah! Das Right my Bru-thu! by Scrameustache · 2002-01-12 06:46 · Score: 1

Well, its never a good idea to reply to cowards, but here goes:

Steal?
Oh really? Funny, its a way to use games you HAVE TO PURCHASE on another device than the one it was written for.
There is no theft here buddy-boy, this is called "fair use", say it with me now, fair....uuuuuse.
Dats right.

--

You can't take the sky from me...

Another Emulator by substatica · 2002-01-12 07:09 · Score: 2, Informative

Here's another X-Box Emulator supposedly........

Re:yeah! Das Right my Bru-thu! by KernelHappy · 2002-01-12 07:13 · Score: 1

Best guess is that if this thing is real there is a fair amount of "stealing". I'm willing to bet microsoft has a bunch of copyrighted and patented instructions in the lower layers. The act of emulating those functions according to the law may be considered copyright infringement.

There is also no mention if there is a copy of the xbox bios included in the download. Considering the short amount of time from the xbox release and the release of this supposed emulator I doubt anyone has had the time to completely reverse engineer a "compatible" xbox operating system. (afaik the xbox doesn't run plain vanilla win2k or wince but a bastardized version of the win2k/nt kernel)

While I don't doubt that emulating the xbox is possible, microsoft probably spent 1/5 the budget on developing the system and the remaining 4/5 on obfuscating and copyrighting the lower level operation. Even if you do emulate it, based on the assumed (yeah I know assuming is bad) IP protection, the MS lawyers probably have form letter style injunctions ready to go.

--
-- Button up, your ignorance is showing

Re:Totally, utterly wrong by 1g$man · 2002-01-12 07:15 · Score: 1

well, if you want to get all technical about it, you're wrong for saying it runs windows 2000. sure the kernel is based on the w2k kernel, but it has been completely gutted (no virtual memory, for example). also, it doesn't even run a win32 subsystem, and everything runs in kernel mode. it also has its own api rather than standard win32.

off the topic somewhat, but does anyone know if this thing even runs multiple threads? i don't suppose that is even necessary for a machine like this... just curious.

Re:Totally, utterly wrong by 1g$man · 2002-01-12 07:25 · Score: 1

okay, i'll correct a technical flaw of my own. i said it has it's own api, which i'm wrong in a way. it's api is a subset of win32... but has all the GDI and USER stuff stripped off.

You people just don't get it. by talks_to_birds · 2002-01-12 07:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Does HeUnique even read the messages on his own site? Folks here figured out pretty quickly that it's obviously a fake, and he posts an update to the story asking someone to try it."

Ninety percent of the articles put up as "news" on /. are just to generate post volume.

The vast majority of the "news" that gets posted is really "olds", and the rest is just bait.

Take it from someone who's been on here a *long* time...

t_t_b

--
I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?

the reall one by vikool · 2002-01-12 07:32 · Score: 1

could this be the real one?? www.xboxemu.fr.fm saw the link somewhere on that xboxhacker site

How can this be!? by erroneus · 2002-01-12 07:33 · Score: 2

This just boggles the imagination!!

How could they create it so quickly?? I mean the product has only been released months ago and already an emulator exists? The development speed is simply amazing!!

No, wait... isn't the XBox a PC running Windows?

XBox games are encrypted by naoursla · 2002-01-12 07:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

Unless they broke the encryption they are going to have a tought time doing an emulator. They are also going to have a tough time from Microsoft's legal department.

Well... by bomek · 2002-01-12 07:41 · Score: 1

Actually, it work damn too well in wine to be a real application

Orginal X Box Emulator by Mr.+Smoove · 2002-01-12 07:57 · Score: 2, Funny

The original X Box Emulator is available from this address:
http://www.iamlost.com/features/x31/x-frame.html .

Of course you need Windows 3.1 to run it!

--
Mr. Smoove

Re:Hoax? No question! by simm_s · 2002-01-12 08:11 · Score: 1

It is truely a hoax!!!
strings xbox.vxd |grep -in "wolfenstein"
8234:Wolfenstein-1
8471:has not been verified for use with Wolfenstein.
10212:Wolfenstein
It takes no longer than a minute to verify.
Shame on the slashdot maintainers for rushing this article.

Thanks Slashdot by inkless1 · 2002-01-12 08:14 · Score: 1

Woah. I mean woah.

Now I've never upheld /. as any kind of standard for either journalism or writing (and much of the time, not even news).

But this is ridiculous.

Here we have /. placing an article to web site which is more than likely (by the evidence of the messages here, I'd say very likely) is a hoax. Now they, again, on the front page - are asking people to download it and try it out.

Hey. Did anyone ask the question -

What if this was a virus?

Real smart.

inky.

Re:Well, Malda.. by inkless1 · 2002-01-12 08:26 · Score: 1

I just posted about the same thought. It's shame someone moderated this down. Gotta love /.

Especially since this is such a great social engineering design for a virus. Get something which a mass of people will want to download and try out quickly (before lawyers block it). And it could do weird things in install, people probably wouldn't even suspect it because it's a weird beta emulator...

inky

Re:Cool ROMZ !!! by felixsang · 2002-01-12 08:30 · Score: 1

I'm confused. If XBox games suck so bad, then why is the game to console attach rate 3 games per box? It is the highest attach rate in history for a console this early after ship.

DVD writers by Peaker · 2002-01-12 08:30 · Score: 2

CD writers were not commonly available for a few years when the first CD games emerged.

Just wait a couple of years :)

XBox should not be that hard to emulate by meldroc · 2002-01-12 08:33 · Score: 2

It really should not be very difficult to emulate X-Box games on a PC. Reasons:

The X-Box uses an Intel Pentium III processor, which is used by most PC's (OK, most PCs use something in Intel's Pentium family of processors, or use AMD Athlons which work at least as well.)
X-Box games run on a stripped down version of Windows NT/2000/XP, and use the DirectX API to handle all the snazzy graphics & sound. There may be a few differences, but PCs have been running multiple flavors of Windows and using DirectX to run games for years.

The hardest part of figuring out how to emulate X-Box is figuring out how to decrypt the games after reading them from the disk. That may mean reverse-engineering the X-Box's decryption code (naughty) or extracting the decryption keys from the X-Box's firmware (even more naughty.) Then it's just a matter of translating X-Box DirectX calls to PC DirectX calls & working out twenty million little compatibility issues.

--

Meldroc, Waster of Electrons

Where are your priorities, boy! by whereiswaldo · 2002-01-12 08:34 · Score: 1

But I still am tempted to get an MSX-Box if only to handle my DOA addiction.

And would you be happy to know that you are supporting the Evil Empire in the process? Do the only thing that makes sense - boycott the slimy evil-doers.

Re:Cool ROMZ !!! by IronChef · 2002-01-12 08:34 · Score: 2

I thought that Xboxen were all sold in bundles -- aren't you forced to take 3 games when you buy one?

nope (at least not yet) by Skuld-Chan · 2002-01-12 08:35 · Score: 1

well there's no trojan inside it - at least nav ce 7.6 doesn't think so. All it told me was it couldn't initialize the video, and it looks like the current version they stripped the version symbols out of the .dll/.xvd files. Classic signs for a trojan - but unless he invented the virus like this morning...

Re:Cool ROMZ !!! by blowg0ats · 2002-01-12 08:40 · Score: 1

since the supply was a lot greater than the demand, more than a few stores in my area (and others, too) were requiring you to buy at least 3 games and an extra controller with an x box purchase. if you had your name on the list but didn't have the money for the extra controller and games, well there were about a dozen poeple right next to you that -did-

Clarification by felixsang · 2002-01-12 08:40 · Score: 1

UFC Tapout isn't even out yet.. how do you know it doesn't work? The XBox runs on an Pentium! Why does using one break it? The XBox also uses a form of Direct3D, not OpenGL so what is this about support for it? Also I hear the D3D it uses was modified to work better with special hardware features in the video card, ones not in the GF3 or even the soon to be released this year sometime GF4. clear these things up for me.. i'm confused.

Come on everyone by Macblaster · 2002-01-12 08:44 · Score: 1

I quote from the file xbox.vxd...

"wolfconfig.cfg // id Software and Activision will NOT ask you to send this file to them."

so if by id Software, they mean Microsoft, and by activision, they mean Bill Gate's pockets, then nothing is changed, because this is not a real xbox emulator/wrapper.

Sounds like... by kidtexas · 2002-01-12 08:46 · Score: 1

those are just problems with Windows....

Fake? Yup. by njv · 2002-01-12 08:55 · Score: 2, Informative

That screenshot from Simpsons Road Rage dates from around E3. There were a lot of changes made to the art between then and the release at the end of October. See the arrow at the top of the screen? In the final version of the game, it is a pointing hand. Unless they stole a pre-alpha build of the game and somehow made it work on the emulator (it wouldn't work on a real Xbox - we were on pre-production hardware then), then someone's not being entirely truthful here. Nice hoax though.

awful msn ish for a xbo emulator... by chaos4u · 2002-01-12 09:05 · Score: 1

just looking at the files through text viewer and there is a lot of jargon in the files having to do with msn .... and also the vxd is rather wordy also ....

and the 3dsnd.dll mentions somethung about trillian .. rather odd it think for a xbox emu to mentioning something about a free ware chat app

--
Music the Paint dancefloor the canvas your body the brush

Re:As an Xbox developer... *bogus* by Glonk · 2002-01-12 09:13 · Score: 2, Informative

GForce hards do T&L and a whole host of shaders in HARDWARE already. It's already been pointed out the GForce within the XBox is a weaker version of the bottom line GForce3. A Ti200 and Ti500 will eat it alive in performance.

Can I have a toke, too?
GeForce 3s have one vertex pipeline for T&L and vertex shaders, the Xbox GPU has two vertex pipelines. Theoretically, that's twice the T&L power of a GeForce 3 already.

Plot Revealed: XBox is VaporWare! (Re:Hmmm...) by mbogosian · 2002-01-12 09:14 · Score: 1

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games. If you buy your own high end PC, pay full sticker, and then buy their games, you're saving them money, and they're still getting their cut from the development fees for the game.

Wait a minute.... So audio/video/media hw producers do buttloads of research to constantly improve performance/capabilities of their products while reducing costs to the end consumer while software entertainment companies continue to take advantage of those improvements in games that are becoming more and more real all the while every single one of them has to pay Microsoft royalties/licensing fees/kickbacks/bribes/whatever during the process?

How is that different from a pre-Xbox world?

--

moto411.com

this is good... by krs-one · 2002-01-12 09:20 · Score: 1

From the xbox.vxd file:

say_team:Wolf 1.0.0Three keys down for a button!

Good prank though, got him 50,000 hits on his site in a day.

-Vic

Honestly.... by GiorgioG · 2002-01-12 09:21 · Score: 1

That's a fairly irresponsible post that CmdrTaco published. If that fake contains a virus of some sort, you just screwed a bunch of people. Regardless of whether people are dumb enough to run it without a virus scan, it's just the wrong way to go about it. I'm not sure what else CmdrTaco does at VA (and it's honestly none of our concern), but he really should check the story out before posting it or not post it at all. That goes for all the reviewers @ /.

This isn't a flame, just being honest about the quality of /. articles. Yes, there are alot of story submissions, but most people would rather have 1/2 the number of stories if they were known to be accurate.

"News for Nerds."
News is only as good as its source. /. appears to do or know very little in the way of Quality Assurance. And obviously, this post is not part of &nbsp"Stuff that matters."

I'm ranting now ;-)

Norton doesn't mind it.... by GweeDo · 2002-01-12 09:24 · Score: 1

I just thought I would let the world know that the Norton doesn't detect any kinda foul play here. I scanned the file and it came back clean...so though it appears to be a hox, it doesn't appear to be a damaging one!

--
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck

Possibly offtopic, but important by tkrotchko · 2002-01-12 09:52 · Score: 1

That's why you need something like Virtual PC to try this kind of stuff out before you hose up your "production" system.

--
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you

It's a fake, hands down by AnimeFreak · 2002-01-12 09:53 · Score: 2

Why?

Think about it, do you actually think any emulator would want to run such games in a window?

Also, under requirements it says you need a ATI Radeon or Geforce3. Umm, doesn't the X Box work on a GF3 and not an ATI chipset? If so, then wouldn't games fail to work or display properly on the ATI card since they're programmed for the GF3? It also states it uses OpenGL, why not DirectX, Microsoft's brain-child?

As well, why would it need that much ram? The X Box has only 64 MB of RAM, therefore the games should function fine under a system with 128 MB of RAM.

And to add to that, you need a P3/P4/Athlon? Hell, the X Box uses a Celeron 733! I doubt you would even need a processor faster than 733 MHz as a 500 MHz processor would probably do the job.

As stated by a lot of other people, it is a fake.

Fakers by GweeDo · 2002-01-12 10:02 · Score: 1

Clue Number 1 this isn't real:
When you go under options. There are so called "special options", such as Z buffering, Fog, Texture Compressing and more. These aren't check boxes though, they are a radio button. It isn't like the Xbox only uses one of these options at a time...

--
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck

You can see its fake... by Almonymous · 2002-01-12 10:07 · Score: 1

just by looking at the min. requirements. the req. page states GeForce class 3d card as a minimum while the XBox has pixel shader capabilities that cant be emulated by software. the XBox will probably be the one of the easiest consoles to emulate as soon as PC 3d GPU hardware catch up with the XBox NV2A - its the only console ever that runs x86 code.

Re:way to go! by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 10:21 · Score: 1

If only it were so. I'd rather /. editors be unscrupulous than so tech-inept as to think this 'emulator' could possibly be for real.

Besides, who would pay to direct traffic to such a silly trollsite?

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

I don't have to download it by shepd · 2002-01-12 10:38 · Score: 1

To know its a fake.

Why does this image have jpeg compression errors and why is it so fuzzy when its a gif?

And what's the weird jpeg ringing noise around the spaceship in this gif image?

Simple answer: I think they stole some promo screenshots and used MS-Paint with a bmp to gif convertor to fake their site.

These guys might want to be careful, I hear the Vanuatuian government doesn't look kindly upon scammers.

If anyone here speaks Bislama, can you tell me if there's a hidden meaning to the word Linar?

--
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC

Re:way to go! by Com2Kid · 2002-01-12 10:40 · Score: 1

"The console industry defined itself from its inception as an arena for hard-core capitalist corporations to milk maximum revenue from content providers and customers."

Play Nintendo. They have constantly shown that they are willing to take steps to give the CUSTOMERS what they want. (please do ignore pokemon, those /do/ suck, though I would rather have an 8 or 9 year old child playing Pokemon then playing GTA3)

Heck, Sony artificialy raised the CD-ROM prices for their PSX console to hell. I remember when the PSX first came out that the main 'advantage' of it over the N64 was that the games were 'so much cheaper.

My how that changed once Sony got an almost monopolistic hold on the market sector. Boom, watch CD prices shoot-up. Hell Sony even _ADMITED_ to using price controling techniques for their popular games, but the customers, loyal little sheeple that they be, just accepted this with a shrug. Bah.

When Nintendo releases something you KNOW that it is going to be good. Hell even their 'flop' ideas had a habit of kicking more ass then competitors products, it is just that people were used to the Insanely High Quality of the pre-existing Nintendo product so the merely OK quality of Nintendo's 'bad' products was looked down upon as being absolutly cruddy. (One disadvantage of being the best, everybody expects it from you 100% of the time. Oh well, I am happy with Nintendo's deliverence of 99.9% of the time. :) )

I myself am happy owning a Console system that did not cost MORE then a computer after you buy all of the neccisary extra's for it (Ps2) or something that is a computer with its balls chopped off that has this awful habit of being DEFECTIVE(1) and CRASHING (xbox).

1: Only a small percentage of them were defective. Oh well, still /too/ many. Bleh.

--
Need help treating your acne? Come here!

Re:way to go! by VAXman · 2002-01-12 10:44 · Score: 2

Yes, but by selling more units, they will produce more units. Assuming that they are selling below marginal cost, they could lose more by producing 10,000,000 units with 0 units of unsold inventory, than by producing 1,000,000 units with 500,000 leftover units. If you don't buy more units, they won't produce more, which puts a limit on the loss.

I believe it.. by juuri · 2002-01-12 10:49 · Score: 2

Slashdot has been hitting new lows on a consistant basis for about 14 months. Sure there were foul-ups before but usually one of the editors would admit their mistake. Not really the case anymore.

But think of it like this. An article such as this, about a hot new technology that you can have for free drives a lot of traffic to the slashdot site. How so? It is a lot more than just the initial people who read the article. Many forward a link off to their friends via email or chat. These people hear it was "broke" on slashdot so when it doesn't work they go there and peruse all the messages looking for a solution.

Slashdot exists solely on AD revenue. Let's all not forget that if the impressions don't maintain a high enough level some positions will have to be eliminated from the slashdot staff. Because of this don't ever expect an editor to call out another for doing a shitty job. They all protect each other because its the only way to protect themselves.

Honestly CmdrTaco should have been relegated to nothing but coding long ago. He is not an "editor".

--
--- I do not moderate.

Another Emulator Site by S.+E.+James · 2002-01-12 10:56 · Score: 1

http://www.xboxemu.fr.fm/
This one is even better. You have to use the actual DVD Drive from the Xbox. Hello?

SEJames

Re:Cool ROMZ !!! by Surlyboi · 2002-01-12 11:06 · Score: 1

Nope, that was only the pre-orders. It was a not-so-naked effort to recoup the loss incurred on the boxes by making the people who buy on hype alone get a few games too.

You can most certainly buy the box by itself. I saw a whole stack of 'em collecting dust at CrapUSA yesterday.

--
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...

It seems to be... by hackersforjesus · 2002-01-12 11:17 · Score: 1

...written in Delphi (the exe anyway). The xboxkrnl32.dll file contains stuff relating to msn messenger, as does the snd3d.dll file.

The big xbox.vxd file starts with just data with no strings, followed by a bunch of stuff that has come from Return To Castle Wolfenstien, looks like the multiplayer one. At the end of the file is the string "The Dark Side has you" and "d:\wolf\src\Release\WolfSP.pdb" which again is from RTCW, but the single player one...

I'd dissasemble some of it (the .exe anyway) but I can't be bothered :) This was just a quick look.

Hits... by thebabelfish · 2002-01-12 11:25 · Score: 1

From the guys page: We have now 50000 visitors, thank you all.

Thanks to Slashdot, we've just given this guy 50,000 hits according to his page. At least he thanked us....

--
"I don't trust goats," --To Catch a Spy

It's a confirmed fake by DMBoyd · 2002-01-12 11:27 · Score: 1

the vxd is a file from return to castle wolfenstein and the two dlls are from MSN messenger. The executable makes changes to your system and the contents look as if it also modifies the registry
the website hints that it is created by Uli Riehm, a german 17 year old.
This is pretty bad for an article like this to be posted without confirmation of its functioning, considering that 50000 people could have a possible trojan because of this.

Re:yeah! Das Right my Bru-thu! by Platypii · 2002-01-12 11:50 · Score: 1

Exactly where does it say that it requires games to be purchased? nowhere? oh, there goes your arguement. The problem with emulators is that they virtually never check copy protection, so i could play a dvd-r just as easily. THAT is the theft.

Re:ANOTHER XBOX EMULATOR (FAKE!) by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 11:51 · Score: 1

That site's screenshots are even more fake-looking. You won't be happy until we wipe out our drives, will you?

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

UPDATE by icemind by icemind · 2002-01-12 11:57 · Score: 1

UPDATE by icemind: This emulator is a fake. according to these messages on the slashdot forums - this is a fake one. Could someone at /. try reading their own comments section??

Re:As an Xbox developer... *bogus* by Namarrgon · 2002-01-12 11:58 · Score: 2

Weaker? No. It has less memory bandwidth, true, but it has a faster clockrate than most GF3 cards, and it has a second vertex pipeline. nVidia have also said it is tweaked in other ways.

Finally, it shares its memory with the CPU. It reads its geometry data directly from main memory, rather than transferring it over an AGP bus. This gives it multiple GB/s to read non-static vertex data, and allows the CPU to assist in preparing it. Its performance with dynamic geometry will destroy any add-on card. And developers can & will take full advantage of the architecture's strengths, unlike any PC developer, who has to cater for dozens of configurations.

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

Obvious solution: buy lots of XboXes! by leonbrooks · 2002-01-12 12:07 · Score: 2

If Microsoft is smart, they'll ignore this. Why? Well, they're losing around $150 USD per console, and they make the money from the games.

So... buy lots of XboXes and use them as diskless workstations, advertising displays, etc... anything but buy the games.

--
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing

Hmmm... Nope. by Namarrgon · 2002-01-12 12:15 · Score: 5, Informative

Your standard DVD-R discs are single layer only. Xbox games (and most movies) are DVD-9, dual layer discs. No consumer-level drive will write dual layer discs.

Xbox games MUST be dual layer; the Xbox boots off the second layer. You might be able to squeeze a movie onto a single layer disc (though not the extras - there wouldn't be room), but even then you'd have to decrypt it with DeCSS or similar first.

DVD-Rs are made to the DVD-General standard, which has an unwritable key data track, precisely so you can't just bit-copy CSS-scrambled content to them. DVD-Authoring discs allow this, but they're unusable by consumer DVD-Rs (and the drives are a LOT more expensive).

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

l1nuX 7r0j4n by h4cK+M4574+fl45h · 2002-01-12 12:47 · Score: 1

100k 0u7 mu7h4 fUk1z! y411 dum455 b17ch3z, 7h4t C++ 5h17 1z g0nn4 s3nD 0u7 4n 0bfu5c4t3d p3rrl 7r0j4n f0 unp47cH3d k3Rn3lz 2.4.8.

r00t! r00t!

7'm4rr4 1'll h4v3 5oooo l1NUZ b0X3n fUk y4ll 5h17 uP!!!

What's the prob with a XBox emulator? it's windoze by 4130BMX_LoCal · 2002-01-12 12:57 · Score: 1

What's the prob of an XBox emulator? K, anyone who do something like that has my huge respect, but isn't the Xbox x86 hardware and a Windoze-like OS? So emulating is not as hard as emualting MIPS or so....isn't it? 4130BMX_LoCal

xboxhacker by Patrick+Cable+II · 2002-01-12 13:20 · Score: 1

I find it funny that a website trying to reverse engineer a MS product uses IIS.

Bleh this fake is old.. by Anonymous Coward · 2002-01-12 13:32 · Score: 1, Informative

this fake is old, wonders me that sladshot bring the site now, there start some weeks before and we laugh here in germany all the time over this site.. here some file infos...

crypt.dll
732 KB (749,568 bytes)
Monday, December 04, 2000, 2:10:36 PM
MFC-Anwendung Advent
Copyright (C) 2000 http://www.gitd.de & http://www.anyMOTION.de
http://www.gitd.de
German IT Development
German (Standard)
Advent.exe

grphx.dll
56.0 KB (57,344 bytes)
Wednesday, May 05, 1999, 10:22:00 PM
NOTEPAD.EXE from Windows 98

xbox.vxd
4.18 MB (4,387,088 bytes)
Tuesday, October 24, 2000, 1:12:02 AM
Main executable for Red Alert 2
Copyright © 1999 Westwood Studios
Sun.exe
Command & Conquer : Red Alert 2

I love a good hoax. by MsGeek · 2002-01-12 13:47 · Score: 2

This has truly made my day. If this is a benign hoax that doesn't drop any malware or rootkits or open any back doors or do anything else nasty, I think it's great. Of course, if there is any sort of malware involved my attitude about it does a complete 180. But if this was a totally harmless prank I find it absolutely hilarious.

The only Internet prank that beats this one was this: the "Daria Movie Rumors Site." Unfortunately it looks like the site is now history, but basically it was a vicious satire on Hollywood, Teen Movies and related topics, and included a hilarious fanfic that was sort of an extended "Daria" episode as if it was written by the "I Know What You Did Last Summer" screenplay. Very beautifully done. Too bad it's gone.

This story needs a new icon. "It's Funny. Laugh."

--
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.

Currently Xbox emulation is infeasible. by Gridle · 2002-01-12 13:48 · Score: 4, Flamebait

Didn't you read what I just said? Or didn't you want to understand? The completely different memory architecture makes it impossible to emulate it like a virtual machine. You'd have to wrap your high level emulation around every opcode that gets executed, and by doing this, you wouldn't be gaining anything over a traditional interpretive or dynamically recompiling emulator. The speed requirements of this are unbelievable. Even if you could recompile whole blocks of code into tightly optimized emulation loops, there are many more things that need consideration on the emulation side such as IO ports, HD access, interrupts, proprietary 3D hardware - so what if DirectX is used? Its interface to the actual graphics chip does not exist on the PC side, so you'd have to emulate all that as well.

FYI, emulating x86 on x86 does not make it any simpler than some other CPUs on x86. In fact, it is one of the most dreadful tasks one can imagine. Writing a CPU core for MIPS chips is a breeze compared to emulating a complete x86-based system with all its quirks, strange behaviours and design stupidities.

Emulating a Nintendo 64 was never impossible, as Mike Tedder (aka Breakpoint) proved years before the high level emulators - which, if I may say so - are essentially real-time ports of the games to PC code and not emulation at all. The MIPS opcodes are dynamically recompiled into x86 code in memory, the graphics chip calls are trapped and translated into native 3D API calls, the sound chip playlists are simply thrown at the sound card. This is also why the high level emulators will never run more than Mario 64 and Zelda 64 without ugly hacks, since both the CPU, graphics and sound chips can be reprogrammed and none of the current emulators can handle this. Your compatibility estimate of "slightly less" is several magnitudes wrong. Of course there has to be an exception - I've understood that Project64 actually emulates the RSP microcode (3D manipulations, audio functions) instead of faking it on a high level. But it also requires a lot faster computer.

I never said emulating Xbox will always remain impossible. At this time however, because of current CPU speeds and the sheer complexity of the Xbox system, you cannot expect to see an emulator. Not for at least five years, probably closer to ten.

Re:Currently Xbox emulation is infeasible. by Jimmy_B · 2002-01-12 14:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

Even if you could recompile whole blocks of code into tightly optimized emulation loops, there are many more things that need consideration on the emulation side such as IO ports, HD access, interrupts, proprietary 3D hardware - so what if DirectX is used? Its interface to the actual graphics chip does not exist on the PC side, so you'd have to emulate all that as well.
IO ports and HD access shouldn't pose a problem because they're not speed critical (HD would actually be faster, because of faster drives), and the 3D hardware is not the problem you seem to think it is. The "actual graphics chip" *does* exist on the PC side; nVidia sells near-identical cores to Microsoft and to PC motherboard manufacturers. Plus, the games are probably only interfacing with a DirectX library implementation somewhere on the XBox hard disk, so that can be trapped and redirected into the PC DirectX library.

As for the N64, the UltraHLE emulator runs a large percentage of games; yes, it does so with some hacks, but on consoles, the only programs you need consider are the successful commercial ones, not thousands of freeware programs with thousands of different sets of quirks.
This is also why the high level emulators will never run more than Mario 64 and Zelda 64 without ugly hacks, since both the CPU, graphics and sound chips can be reprogrammed and none of the current emulators can handle this.
DirectX HAL comes to the rescue here; the games shouldn't be touching the hardware except through DirectX, to which calls can be trapped.
I never said emulating Xbox will always remain impossible. At this time however, because of current CPU speeds and the sheer complexity of the Xbox system, you cannot expect to see an emulator. Not for at least five years, probably closer to ten.
I've gotten the distinct impression that Microsoft started with a PC and modified it until they had something suitable to sell as a console. Yes, it will certainly take time to reverse-engineer the thing to the point where it can be emulated. However, Microsoft's laziness may well mean that the XBox and PCs are surprisingly similar. I also think that the hardware of five to ten years from now will be absolute overkill for emulating an XBox.

Of course, until someone cracks the XBox BIOS, we're both on speculation, which makes this argument rather pointless.
Re:Currently Xbox emulation is infeasible. by Scurrilous+Knave · 2002-01-12 14:51 · Score: 1

Ho, me man, me man ... don'tcha be tellin a group of angry hackers that they can't do something ...
Re:Currently Xbox emulation is infeasible. by k2x · 2002-01-12 18:53 · Score: 1

Yes xbox emulation is infeasible. Emulation is possible, but slowwww.
If you haven't noticed already, all the new consoles focused a lot on reducing system bottlenecks(mainly pushing massive data between subsystems), and therefore increasing available bandwidth between subsystems(like the CPU & GPU).
Its not about how many trigahertz your CPU is. Or How many billions of polygons your GPU can draw. Its all about Bandwidth. Games push insane amounts of bits back and forth. Problem is on a PC, CPU-to-memory-to-GPU pipe(AGP) is really small...so small thats its silly.
Yes go ahead and emulate Xbox, or if u can(I dare u) a PS2. Slow, but it can still manage with the small PC pipes.
nuff said.
Re:Currently Xbox emulation is infeasible. by frleong · 2002-01-12 19:35 · Score: 2

What about VMWare-type emulation? Currently, the virtual machine inside my AMD Asus A7V box shows Intel 82371 as the chipset. If VMWare is able to emulate chipsets (even when the host has a different memory architecture), I assume that XBox emulation is quite feasible under current technology.

The major roadblocks are the need to crack all those encrypted stuff and creating the hardware bridge.

--
¦ ©® ±
Re:Currently Xbox emulation is infeasible. by FleshWound · 2002-01-14 01:10 · Score: 1

DirectX HAL comes to the rescue here; the games shouldn't be touching the hardware except through DirectX, to which calls can be trapped.
The only problem with that is that, from what I understand, MS highly modified DX8 for the Xbox so that the software (read: games) could get even closer to the hardware than any PC-based software could ever hope to get. This was provided as a convenience for the game programmers, so that they could do more with the hardware than DirectX would have allowed.

This, of course, does not mean that every game will "bypass" DirectX and head straight from the hardware, but it's certainly a possibility.

Re:ANOTHER XBOX EMULATOR (NOT FAKE!) by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 14:02 · Score: 1

You mean somebody with a real emu would post obviously fake screenshots?

I thought only the big-time software companies did that.

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

hold up by hajmola · 2002-01-12 14:11 · Score: 1

yes, journalistic integrity is important, but i'd rather too many stories posted than too few. if only they'd stop rejecting mine...

First Clue it's a fake... by ackthpt · 2002-01-12 15:49 · Score: 1

...It didn't require you to sign up for MS Passport to save your high scores.

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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

Re:ANOTHER XBOX EMULATOR (NOT FAKE!) by aka-ed · 2002-01-12 15:56 · Score: 1

Yeah right. If you want me to believe you, posting anonymously doesn't help.

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I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

You, sir, are a fucking retard. by Uller-RM · 2002-01-12 16:13 · Score: 2

The magical part of the xbox is the memory architecture. It may use standard SDRAM, but it uses a unified memory addressing scheme, which no existing PC uses - and in order to redirect it you'd have to trap every memory access made by the CPU, but this is AFTER you've reverse-engineered the northbridge to figure out what addresses map to actual chips, which addresses map to the sound card, to the video card, etc.

Not to mention that the HD has an IDE password chip, and in order to even dump the disc you have to first unlock it on a running xbox and then mux the IDE bus back into a PC. It's been done, but now they have raw bits. And believe me, MSFT is not going to be so silly as to make the HDD a standard FAT32 or NTFS drive. For that matter, I highly doubt the DVDs are in UFS format either.

The fact that the graphics hardware is made by NVidia and based on a GF3 core doesn't mean the full chip is a GF3, or that it uses the same pinout, or even the same surrounding support logic as an AGP card.

Tis better to shut thy mouth and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

Re:You, sir, are a fucking retard. by Uller-RM · 2002-01-12 16:17 · Score: 2

I also find it relevant to point out that the x86 is not a readily virtualizable chip. VMWare has to make BIOS modifications to pull it off. And as for pure software emulation... look at the Bochs project, which is quite well regarded and supported, and is only up to the original Pentium. The x86 is notorious for having lots of little sideeffects and tricks/traps that make it a pain in the ass to duplicate. And, if you really want to make emulating the xbox interesting, the P6 family of processors is based on a microcode architecture... upload some new microcode, and whee, the behavior of the chip just changed until the power is reset!

Re:Wrong, wrong... by WzDD · 2002-01-12 16:22 · Score: 2, Insightful

Actually that is exactly what Plex86 and VMware do. Bochs and the x86 core in MAME are different because the program is designed to run on non-x86 architectures.

You are correct that you cannot completely virtualise an x86 PC. However, most instructions can be virtualised. The ones that can't require special handling - so one of the things that makes VMware complicated (and slower than you'd otherwise expect) is that it has to pre-parse code and insert handlers for those particular instructions.

The plex86 page has a lot of useful information on this.

Re:yeah! Das Right my Bru-thu! by Scrameustache · 2002-01-12 16:26 · Score: 1

Just TRY to DVD-R an x-box game.
Try.
They're written backwards, -just for that-.

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You can't take the sky from me...

Proof that it is fake by CharlesV · 2002-01-12 16:51 · Score: 1

This took 30 seconds. Went to xbox.ign.com, looked at simpsons road screenshots, and found

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/mediaPage.jsp?media_i d= 171619&object_id=16612&media_type=R&ign_section=27 &page_title=The+Simpsons+Road+Rage+review+on+xbox. ign.com&adtag=network%3Dign%26site%3Dxboxviewer%26 adchannel%3Dxbox%26pagetype%3Darticle&return_url=h ttp%3A%2F%2Fxbox.ign.com%2Freviews%2F16612.html

if that doesnt work, it's the "Mr. Plow Owns You" from the media page off of http://xbox.ign.com/reviews/16612.html . Note that the screenshot is exactly the same, including the earnings home has made thus far.

And that's that.

You know you're an emulation junkie when... by Guppy06 · 2002-01-12 16:56 · Score: 2

... you see the letters "MSX" and immediately think of an old Japanese computer platform.

WINDOW !! WINDOW !! WINDOW !! by yerricde · 2002-01-12 17:05 · Score: 2

I thought so at first myself, but right now I am running "Luigi's Mansion" in a window

Well, I ran Super Mario 64 in a window... on a Macintosh Performa 6230 with a 75 MHz PowerPC processor. The N64 has a 93 MHz MIPS processor plus a 60 MHz Reality Coprocessor.

(All 6220s and 6230s had video input.)

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Will I retire or break 10K?

A portable PS/2 emulator already exists by yerricde · 2002-01-12 17:08 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Does the Gameboy Advance have a more powerful graphics card than most computers?

Yes. Its 2D hardware is much more powerful than the computer in your microwave or coffee maker.

There was a Macintosh PS2 emu hoax going around a few months ago. Just a hoax, of course.

I have your PS/2 emulator right here. Bochs emulates a PS/2 nearly perfectly and can run many of the most popular games released for the PS/2. Strangely enough though, it can't run games made for the original PlayStation. Rumor has it that if you type a secret code into VMWare, you can also get a PS/2 emulator that way.

(In other words, computer != PC, and PS2 != PS/2.)

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Will I retire or break 10K?

Re:A portable PS/2 emulator already exists by yerricde · 2002-01-13 03:49 · Score: 1

How do u get [bochs] to emulate ps2???

First of all, it won't work with PS2 titles released in 2000 or later because those titles are designed for a different platform: Sony PlayStation 2. Bochs emulates IBM Personal System 2; many PS/2 titles released before 1994 work in Bochs. However, there are still thousands of titles on abandonware sites such as this that run on IBM PS/2.

Once you know you have an IBM title and not a Sony title, just read the Bochs manual to learn how to install DR DOS or FreeDOS and then read the game's manual to learn how to install it to Bochs's virtual drive.

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Will I retire or break 10K?

Fake or not? by Leto2 · 2002-01-12 19:05 · Score: 2

UPDATE by HeUnique:Is this emulator a fake? according to these messages in the XBox Hacker web site - this is a fake one. Could someone actually try it?

Maybe the slashdot editors could actually try it before posting? Or do none of the slashdot editors have windows boxes because they're too good for that?

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<grub> Reading /. at -1 is like driving through Cracktown in a convertible that is stuck in 1st

IT IS A TROJAN by spectecjr · 2002-01-12 21:50 · Score: 4, Interesting

THIS APP IS A TROJAN OF SOME KIND

Call me a coward if you like, but I'm not installing it.

SEVERAL OF THE FILE IN THE ARCHIVE ARE PART OF THE TRILLIAN MULTI-INSTANT MESSENGER APPLICATION

Check it out for yourself -- open up the archive, and then the individual files in your favorite hex editor. Scroll to the end and start looking through the strings.

Oh, and it also has Wolfenstein 3D embedded in it as well -- or so it seems.

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Coming soon - pyrogyra

Re:IT IS A TROJAN by jnex26 · 2002-01-14 01:28 · Score: 1

Nope Just Tryed a Scann while running using NAV 2002 Nothing Showed up at all
Re:IT IS A TROJAN by CuCullin · 2002-01-16 04:08 · Score: 1

Maybe the xbox runs off of the wolfenstein 3d graphics engine? You know, floor, wall, door, elevator, and nazis....

Ripping Xbox games with the Xbox drive? by CTho9305 · 2002-01-13 02:18 · Score: 1

Any reason you can't take the Xbox's DVD drive, drop it in a PC, and write ripping software?

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My server

Microsoft finally goes Apple's way... by Shuh · 2002-01-13 02:50 · Score: 1

I guess the writing is on the wall. After years of crowing about open architectures and such, M$-lovers see their beloved company move into the biggest chunk of P.C.-gaming with their own PROPRIETARY BOX! Of course Linux-users are all too familiar by now with the fact that many P.C. components are designed with proprietary-only Windows API's in mind... essentially closing the door on the "open architecture" holy grail. Might as well buy a Mac for computing (no M$-crap) and an XBox for games and be done with it!

Re:way to go! by SpinyNorman · 2002-01-13 03:18 · Score: 2

Huh? Which part of "they lose $90 per box" didn't you understand?!

You buy a box, they lose $90

You don't buy a box, they lose $0

You only help them recoup the cost when you buy the actual games.

Reason for games consoles by SpinyNorman · 2002-01-13 03:26 · Score: 2

Because games writers have to write to the lowest common denominator of the hardware their game is going to run on. The whole point of games consoles is that the hardware is fixed and games developers can therefore take it as a given and exploit it... it also means they are cheap to manufacture.

Re:way to go! by Legion303 · 2002-01-13 05:58 · Score: 2

They've already paid for the boxes. Let's make this simple for you (using simple numbers, even):

MS pays $100 to produce an XBox which retails for $75. Two things can happen: 1.) You buy the box, giving MS $75--net loss to MS=$25. 2.) You don't buy the box, giving MS $0--net loss to MS=$100.

Either that or I missed the marketing class which discussed how a company would lose more money if people bought its products than if they didn't.

-Legion

Baloney. by Animats · 2002-01-13 07:01 · Score: 2

Baloney. The only obstacle to building an Xbox emulator is Microsoft's intellectual property. An XBox is basically a PC with a GeForce 2 running a stripped-down version of Windows 2K.

In fact, Xbox apps are normally developed and run on Win2K during development. The final move to the console is mostly an exercise in linking and copy protection, along with timing and resource limitation checks.

what are the "poster" requirments? by halo8 · 2002-01-13 09:35 · Score: 1

with Katz infamous drone war conflaberation and now this post, what are the requirments to become a "poster" is it 50 karma? lenght of use? i read the FAQ and didnt find anything applicable. or did i miss something in the faq?

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The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing

And the paranoid?? by inkless1 · 2002-01-13 12:32 · Score: 1

And the paranoid would do well to treat this as a trojan? Why would one have to be paranoid to think that a file from a random website offering a completely false set of features under false pretenses might possibly be something it's not?

Note to self - never EVER ask /. for security advice. Nice bullet you guys dodged there.

inky

inky

Re:X-Box Emulator - Or FAKE!! by ausBollix · 2002-01-13 16:14 · Score: 1

Yup - it's a fake. Why else would snd3d.dll contain code to call the Connection Wizard, and then a "hideall" routine at 001d / 00004880 to cover it's tracks??

Re:Hmmm... Nope. (OT) by FastT · 2002-01-13 21:14 · Score: 2

Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

Because it keeps you from getting eaten by trolls, as long as you don't move your feet. Too bad it doesn't work against Slashdot trolls. Let me try:

Elbereth

Nope. Damn.

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The only certainty is entropy.

Yes it can be emulated by fluor2 · 2002-01-13 21:23 · Score: 1

It can be emulated very easily, but no emulater (atleast as I've heard of) are out yet. Be sure to buy that 2.2 ghz :p

Re:Just curious by benjymous · 2002-01-13 21:51 · Score: 1

Well I just found the same info about the kernal file, by doing the highly technical thing of opening it in notepad and looking at all the readable text inside.

The first 2/3 of the file is actual code, so just looks like random rubbish in notepad. Once you get past there though, you start seeing chunks of readable text, all related to Trillian's MSN messenger connection code.

Here's a snippet

MSN Messenger Error creating MSN connection. Error LSG NAK CVR QRY BPR PRP CHL FIL TFR URL OUT CAL FLN REM ADD REA ANS IRO LST BLP NLN JOI ILN MSG RNG CHG SYN USR GTC XFR INF VER Trillian requires at least WinSock 2.0. Please upgrade your version of WinSock before continuing! Thanks. Fatal Winsock Error connect Dec 4 2001 IDL
Idle HDN
Appear Offline LUN
Out To Lunch PHN
On The Phone BRB
Be Right Back BSY
Busy AWY
Away NLN
Online Invisible

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Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!

Xbox Emulator Hoax by JeZuSt · 2002-01-14 02:57 · Score: 1

The French zataz.com magazine demonstrates that this emulator is a hoax! www.zataz.com/zataz/news.php?id=492&file=10.html

Re:way to go! by SpinyNorman · 2002-01-14 03:00 · Score: 2

You're assumng that Microsoft has a warehouse of these things pre-built that will never sell unless you step up to the plate to buy one. In reality they are only going to build enough to keep the channel full. For them to be left with unsellable inventory would mean that demand would have to dry up so fast that they couldn't adapt.

You're argument is like saying that you can make GM lose $10,000 by not buying one of their cars because then it'd be left to rot on a storage lot someplace. Yes, that'd be true if it ever happened, but in reality if demand slowed they'd cut down on production (well, duh!).

What your marketing class apparently missed is that companies usually sell products at a profit, not at a loss (as Microsoft is doing). Can't you see that it makes a difference?!!!

Re:way to go! by Legion303 · 2002-01-14 04:31 · Score: 2

MS doesn't need a warehouse. Go into any department store, electronics/computer specialty store, or toy store and you will see the many units that MS has already built and paid for.

Yes, they will slow production if no one buys the units already there. They will still be out the initial money regardless (and probably pump even more money into marketing to try to sell the existing XBoxes).

For your scheme to work, people would have to buy up *every* XBox out there, forcing MS to build more, then buy those as well. There is a lower limit to the number of units that have to be sold before MS starts losing more money than they would if no one bought one of the many, many units already produced. The math is actually very easy for most people to understand.

-Legion

Re:way to go! by SpinyNorman · 2002-01-14 04:46 · Score: 2

You're assuming that Microsoft already has, or at some point will have, more X-box's in the channel than they will ever sell without the cooperation of our wanna-screw-microsoft purchasers. I think you're wrong.

Their forecasting is not going to be perfect, and they have to err on the side of overproduction to avoid starving the channel, but I assert that the degree of overforcasting/building will only be to the degree that they have more money *temporarily* tied up in channel inventory than would be optimal; not that they will ever over-produce to the point that they exceed the remaining end-of-life sales of the product, which is your assertion.

Your scenario assumes Microsoft's forecasting and X-box sales to be catastrophically bad to a degree that is wishfull thinking and unrealistic.

Hey GUYS IS THERE ANY WAY TO PLAY PS 2 games ONpc? by Snakekod · 2002-01-14 04:52 · Score: 1

Tell me if you know some emulator for PS 2 that is WORKING because I am tired to listen about FAKE EMULATORS? ps: X BOX EMULATOR IS FAKE BUT WITHOUT TROJAN VIRUS. SNake

Re:Hmmm... Nope. (OT) by Namarrgon · 2002-01-14 05:08 · Score: 2

Congrats, you're the first person to get it :-)

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Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?

Re:Hmmm... Nope. (OT) by FastT · 2002-01-14 10:17 · Score: 1

I laughed my head off seeing that sig. It's nice to see some people on Slashdot aware of the other really good open source project. Cheers.

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The only certainty is entropy.

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