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MTV Movie Awards Webpage Pull a Lone Gunman

abouttime writes "What happens when your webmasters and the show scheduling people don't communicate? This page on the mtv site is where the winners of the awards are known before the show even airs tonight... Way to go MTV....." I wonder if it will be pulled by the time the story goes up....oh and in case you can't figure it out, spoiler alert...

371 comments

  1. Now with local temperature... by wilbrod · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    See it live at www.oksala.org.

    French only!

  2. Two Words... by ANY5546 · · Score: 0

    DANG GINA!

    Someone is going to get fired for sure.

    And the best movie is.... LoTR!!! Duh?

    --
    http://www.freepokerchipset.info
  3. Hopefully the prez takes his time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and nobody watches this

  4. FYI- by BannSidhe · · Score: 5, Informative

    They filmed it Saturday, most local news agencies/radio stations have ALREADY told the award results.... LOTR took best movie. American Pie 2 best kiss. blah blah :)

    1. Re:FYI- by Jonny+Ringo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Whatever man I'm not hearing you!!! (Hands over ears) Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy.

    2. Re:FYI- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, yes and Darth Vader is Luke's father.

    3. Re:FYI- by blindbat · · Score: 1

      dang. now i don't even need to go to the mtv site.

    4. Re:FYI- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that the winners are notified in advance (just to make sure they bother to show up if they're in town, and not doing anything more important, like flossing), so anyone who gives us that "oh wow, I didn't think I would win" crap like Reese Witherspoon did, deserves a hard slap in the face with a dead fish, and needs to be exposed for the fakes they are. Puh-leez!

  5. It happens all the time. by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 1

    www.nationalgeographic.com is often out of sync with show times, etc. It happens at my school as well. The website is both ahead of the daily announcements, and just plane WRONG a lot of the time. Perhaps a thread: Anyone know how to prevent these mis-communications, so mtv doesn't screw up again?

    --
    Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    1. Re:It happens all the time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps we can stop such mis-communication by educating the world about the correct usage of "plain" and "plane".

    2. Re:It happens all the time. by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I apollogyse. I Since Taco is my roll model.......

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    3. Re:It happens all the time. by Mupp252 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps a thread: Anyone know how to prevent these mis-communications, so mtv doesn't screw up again?

      I've got a few ideas. Leave out the words "like" and "fer sure" out of corporate memos!

  6. Uhm... by NetJunkie · · Score: 1, Redundant

    These awards aren't live. I read the winners the other day. At least, I'm pretty sure I did on MSNBC's Scoop section.

    1. Re:Uhm... by ObviousGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think that's where I saw it too. It's dated June 2.

      I didn't think it's possible, but is /. becoming slower?

      --
      I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
  7. Well, fuck it by Skim123 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm certain millions of other /. readers are having the same reaction I am: I was planning on watching the award show, but now, because of this gaffe, I'll have to find some other form of entertainment tonight. Shucks, and I was so anticipating the suspense of seeing who would win these coveted awards. Maybe next year!

    --

    I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    1. Re:Well, fuck it by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 0

      YOu didn't have to read the article. Or has Malda brainwashed you into reading EVERYTHING on /.?

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    2. Re:Well, fuck it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While you're making such enlightened comments, you might want to take the time to look up the word sarcasm.

    3. Re:Well, fuck it by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Well, Mr. AC, perhpas YOU should as well. I will find out who this AC person is if he/she/it keeps insulting me like this! this is getting out of hand. Damn you AC!!!

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    4. Re:Well, fuck it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really hope you are just a troll in a bad disguise.

      You sir, are a flaming idiot.

      Self-proclaimed Mac guru, eh? More like self-proclaimed cock guru.

    5. Re:Well, fuck it by dimator · · Score: 0, Troll

      The thing is, I was excited for about half a second, before I realized I don't give a flying fuck.

      --
      python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
    6. Re:Well, fuck it by tabbyTime · · Score: 1

      You're just pretending to be this stupid, right?

    7. Re:Well, fuck it by bataras · · Score: 1

      "anticipating the suspense" ?????

      jesus, I was feeling alot of suspense over my anticipation.

    8. Re:Well, fuck it by littlerubberfeet · · Score: 1

      yes

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    9. Re:Well, fuck it by Skim123 · · Score: 2

      At least you don't feel apprehension of your suspense over your anticipation. That would be almost unbearable.

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    10. Re:Well, fuck it by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      People actually watch these entertainment industry award shows? What if Jerry Springer comes on at the same time?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  8. this is not a lone gunman by kochsr · · Score: 3, Informative

    the awards show was sunday, it is taped. the winners have been on various websites since then

    1. Re:this is not a lone gunman by packeteer · · Score: 1

      and your saying the episode where the lone gunmen died was NOT taped???

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    2. Re:this is not a lone gunman by wo1verin3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      X-Files didn't leak the lone gunman story, slashdot did. Technically MTV pulled a slashdot.

    3. Re:this is not a lone gunman by Ishkibble · · Score: 1

      MTV pulled a /.? thats a new one on me. mabey some one could enlighten me. some one pulled a slashdot?

    4. Re:this is not a lone gunman by gir · · Score: 1

      For MTV to pull a slashdot, They would have to link to someone's site who it is clear can't afford the bandwidth and rid the Internet of the news they (/.) were reporting on that day. It's a lot more than just leaking stories, it involves keeping the public from viewing the source of the stories as well.

      --
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      www.angstmonster.org
    5. Re:this is not a lone gunman by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      But, the X-Files episode had at least aired somewhere when /. plooped out the story. So MTV's gaffe is a bit worse than /.'s

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  9. Lone Gunmen? by howardjp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can someone explain the Lone Gunman reference?

    1. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Chrisd accidentally spilled a rather important spoiler on the front page before it had gotten to the west coast yet. Pissed a lot of people off.

    2. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Coward,+Anonymous · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Slashdot told people the lone gunmen are dead before a lot of them watched the episode.

    3. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Violet+Null · · Score: 5, Informative

      Chrisd put up a slashdot story talking about how the Lone Gunmen (from the X-Files) were killed off in an episode here, before the episode had aired for a number of slashdot readers. The caption of the story was even "The Lone Gunmen Are Dead", negating any possibility that someone visiting slashdot could avoid the spoiler.

      Lots of folks quite upset.

    4. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's when Slashdot gives away the end of an upcoming TV program.

    5. Re:Lone Gunmen? by ozzimark · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but they mysteriously came back in the final episode, but I think that Mulder was just seeing things, because they dissapeared pretty quick

      --
      C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg
    6. Re:Lone Gunmen? by alacqua · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh my God! The Lone Gunmen are dead??

      --

      Move on. There's nothing to see here.
    7. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That Chris Dibona just isnt the sharpest knife in the drawer. Go ahead and mod me down Chris, it doesn't change the fact that it's true.

      (Who do you think is responsible for the themes.org fiasco for a year and a half?)

    8. Re:Lone Gunmen? by smoondog · · Score: 2

      Actually, the best /. example of giving up spoilers is in this story. When 'Taco posted a story that was annotated with "minor spoiler" but contained a rather major one. Too bad the movie sucked.

    9. Re:Lone Gunmen? by csguy314 · · Score: 2

      so they didn't pull a lone gunman... they pulled a chrisd

      --
      This is left as an exercise for the reader.
    10. Re:Lone Gunmen? by EvilAlien · · Score: 1, Troll
      Wouldn't it be fairer, in that case, to say "MTV pulled a Slashdot"?

      And since the results were already public and the Slashdot article was posted without all the facts, much like most of the comments we all contribute, we should actually rename the post "Slashdot pulls a Slashdot, MTV still sucks and makes the world a dumber place just by existing"?

      --
      perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
    11. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit! The Lone Gunmen are dead? Thanks a lot, bastard.

    12. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Vinnie_333 · · Score: 0, Troll

      No only are the Lone Gunmen dead, Mulder pissed on them in the last episode!

      --

      "We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
    13. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      FYI, Also please note that the title of this story is wrong since it says gunmAn (singular) not gunmEn (plural) as it does refer to the X-files trio * and not Lee Harvey Oswald, or any other alleged "Lone GunmAn"

      * site best viewed with Mozilla

    14. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last episode? You mean they canceled the X Files?

      (*thwap* *thwap* Take that, horse!)

    15. Re:Lone Gunmen? by limekiller4 · · Score: 1

      You think you're upset?

      I just found out ABBA broke up. =(

      --
      My .02,
      Limekiller
    16. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Rendus · · Score: 2

      No, you goons. The reference is to when The X-Files site showed pictures of The Lone Gunmen on their site for one of the episodes (The last?). After they died. Spoiling the suprise of them coming back.

    17. Re:Lone Gunmen? by ConsumedByTV · · Score: 2

      The good news is that when I met Boyd Rice in LA a few months ago he told me about his next project with Rose McDowell.


      ABBA LEAD


      So have no fear.
      All the worst ABBA hits are coming back with the Boyd and Rose touch.

      I cannot wait.

      --


      "Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
    18. Re:Lone Gunmen? by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Hey.... did you hear that Elvis is missing?

    19. Re:Lone Gunmen? by Ozymandias_KoK · · Score: 1

      Actually Mr. Goon, the original reference was to the spoiler that they died, which was in the headline no less, not simply the body text. Where they came back it was in the text itself. Both are spoilers, but the first is particularly bad. :)

  10. Best Male Actor: Jar Jar Binks by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 1

    Huh. George Lucas really is Satan.

  11. Timezone issues suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thinks someone was in a diff timezone.

    1. Re:Timezone issues suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. as countless people have already said, it was filmed DAYS ago, the results are everywhere.

      ______________________
      what kind of moron?
      what ever moron you think is good for shooting a guy in the head

  12. Um... by brooks_talley · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Were the results really supposed to be secret until the broadcast?

    If so, then how would one explain this story, from June 2

    Cheers

  13. That was good by sargon666777 · · Score: 1

    Yeah real good... so much for watching that.

    --
    Am I lying when I tell you that im telling the truth? Or am I telling the truth when I say that Im lying?
  14. lol by jacobjyu · · Score: 1

    Oh well, guess there's no point in watching it tonight..

    1. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to slashdot. 'lol' belongs on IRC. Lay back on the posting, it's really embarrasing if you look at your first comments a year later.

  15. Grammar alert! by Violet+Null · · Score: 2

    I thought it was well established that 'lone gunmen' was now a verb; thus, the title should read, 'MTV Lone Gunman's Movie Awards'.

    1. Re:Grammar alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was well established that 'lone gunmen' was now a verb; thus, the title should read, 'MTV Lone Gunman's Movie Awards'.

      That would actually be "MTV Lone Gunmans Movie Awards," or, to be a bit more readable, "MTV Lone-Gunmans Movie Awards."

    2. Re:Grammar alert! by robson · · Score: 1

      Technically, you don't want an apostrophe-s on the verb "Lone Gunman". Thus, it should be:

      MTV Lone Gunmans Movie Awards

      Then it's... um... grammatically correct... well, more than before.

    3. Re: Grammar Alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, actually an apostrophe denotes possession or an omission of letters in a contraction. Thus, your title is *still* wrong. Using 'lone gunmen' as a verb, it should read, "MTV Lone Gunmens Movie Awards."

      (PS - Your final period should go inside the quotes. And, when using 'thus' as a conjunctive adverb following a semicolon, one doesn't place a comma after it.)

    4. Re:Grammar alert! by bleckywelcky · · Score: 1


      Since when are verbs possessive?

      And who was it that said verbing nouns is fun? Was that something on the Simpsons? I forget.

    5. Re:Grammar alert! by ipfwadm · · Score: 2

      And who was it that said verbing nouns is fun?

      And yet you "verbed," the word 'verb,' which is a noun.

    6. Re:Grammar alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for pointing that out, because I am an idiot and cannot recognize either sarcasm or irony on my own.

      Thanks again.

    7. Re:Grammar alert! by cybrpnk2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While we're microanalyzing words, shouldn't it be "lone gunMEN" instead of "lone gunMAN"? The actual series title always juxtaposed a "singular" adjective with a "plural" noun as some sort of ironic statement, didn't it?

    8. Re:Grammar alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From 'Calvin & Hobbes'

      Verbing weirds language

    9. Re: Grammar Alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >> Your final period should go inside the quotes.

      I just can't bring myself to do that. It flies in the face of all my coding cells.

    10. Re:Grammar alert! by Apaturia · · Score: 1
      I think you mean 'MTV Lone Gunmans Movie Awards'.

      What is it with you people and that damn 's' ?

    11. Re: Grammar Alert! by screwballicus · · Score: 1

      Can we make this 'MTV Lone Gunmyns Movie Awards,' or possibly 'MTV Lone Gunpersons Movie Awards,' for that matter, just so those attentive to such things don't get on our backs?

    12. Re:Grammar alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It surprises me that no one has come up with the correct version: "MTV Lone-gunmans Movie Awards." When making a verb out of multiple words, one should insert hyphens.

    13. Re:Grammar alert! by pjp6259 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just like in Airheads, where the name of the band Adam Sandler was in was called the Lone Rangers.

      --
      Computers don't make mistakes. What they do, they do on purpose.
    14. Re:Grammar alert! by bleckywelcky · · Score: 1


      Yeh, that was the point.

    15. Re:Grammar alert! by bleckywelcky · · Score: 1


      Ah yes, thanks. After reading every C&H strip several times over, and watching every Simpsons episode several times over, things start to get mushed together, heh.

    16. Re:Grammar alert! by robson · · Score: 1

      It surprises me that no one has come up with the correct version: "MTV Lone-gunmans Movie Awards." When making a verb out of multiple words, one should insert hyphens.

      Learn something new every day. But should the "g" in "...Lone-gunmans..." be capitalized? It is still a proper name. "MTV Lone-Gunmans Movie Awards"...

    17. Re:Grammar alert! by jea6 · · Score: 2

      It's a joke, jackass. A play on words.

      I hate having to explain it, but... Because this group was comprised of conspiracy theorists, and among the most reviled conspiracies stands the JFK assasination, and because the Warren Report decided that a lone gunman had killed JFK, a conspiracy play on words might yield "Lone Gunmen". And no, Mr. Grammar Alert, it's not irony. Look it up.

      Cheers.

      --

      sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
    18. Re:Grammar alert! by xantho · · Score: 1
      .. Because this group was comprised of conspiracy theorists, and

      It's either "composed of" or "comprised", but not "comprised of". But who's counting?

      :P

      --Xantho

  16. I can't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DAA HAA (first post)

    This is what happens when the brains of the operation doesn't talk to the grunts that actually do the work!!!

    I have had this happen as well where people will set things up before I am informed... When will people learn that befire they get their eggs all in one basket to actually go out and talk to the ckickens?

  17. No big deal -- they were already announced by iwrigley · · Score: 1

    The winners appeared in The Hollywood Reporter (and presumably Variety) on Monday, so this is hardly a big deal...

  18. Number 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will Smith Rocks

  19. MTV Sucks. by colin_n · · Score: 1

    All those award shows suck. People only watch them to see who won, not for the entertainment value. Thank you MTV for not wasting my hours in suspense.

    --

    --------- I have no signature
    1. Re:MTV Sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      People only watch them to see who won, not for the entertainment value.

      What an intelligent comment.

      Seems to me that if someone is watching them to see who won, they ...must find it entertaining.

    2. Re:MTV Sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter who "won." The awards are meaningless.

    3. Re:MTV Sucks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Jack Black and Sarah Michelle Gellar (the hosts) were pretty entertaining, especially in the Spider-Man and LOTR skits.

      That's why I watched it anyway.

  20. doh! (*spoiler alert*) by slakdrgn · · Score: 1
    Its still up after 5 posts (damn musta opened IE right when this was posted).. Not too supprised LotR won best movie tho ;)

    usually (atleast in thought) a lot of webmasters do the data ahead of time, but it auto-posts after everythings played (this is what MTV did for their last Video music awards, or so I read)

    I think after they noticed the amount of hits from slashdot, they prolly just gave up and left it there! ;)

    ~slak

    1. Re:doh! (*spoiler alert*) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      168 comments on this story now, the mtv page is STILL up.

      I don't think it's going anywhere.

      I wasn't going to watch anyway, cause I didn't know it was on, but as a result of this story, I'm making an informed decision not to watch it. Then again, I don't have cable, or MTV via any other delivery network, so I really couldn't have anyway.

  21. depressing by tps12 · · Score: 1

    The Fast and the Furious was nominated for best movie? This shit was spoiled before it started.

    --

    Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
    1. Re:depressing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not nearly as bad as Britney Spears being nominated for 'Breakthrough Female'.

  22. FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah hoes!

  23. good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just one more show I won't be sorry I missed. Even knowing the winners I'm not sorry I'll be working.

  24. Of Course, You Know... by vjmurphy · · Score: 1

    That the awards ceremony was held last weekend and everyone knows who the winners are already? Heck, even CNN has the winners.

    As with anything else, it's the journey that matters, not the destination.

    --
    Vincent J. Murphy
    Spandex Justice
  25. Way radical dude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hehehe I dont' have to go to the awards anymore and neither the loosers :)

  26. Not really by gwernol · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, the award results were widely reported several days ago, for example see SFGate.com which mirrored the Associated Press feed.

    MTV themselves provided the information to the AP, so this is hardly a slip up. They clearly want the results known several days ahead of the air date. My guess is they figure this is good publicity to draw people in to watch the show.

    --
    Sailing over the event horizon
    1. Re:Not really by jacobjyu · · Score: 1

      MTV posts results in hopes to gain publicity

      MTV goes to Slashdot saying that MTV's page is showing the results erroneously

      MTV sits back and basks in the flow of \.'ers

    2. Re:Not really by GuyMannDude · · Score: 2

      MTV themselves provided the information to the AP, so this is hardly a slip up. They clearly want the results known several days ahead of the air date. My guess is they figure this is good publicity to draw people in to watch the show.

      Yeah, I agree completely. Let's face it: MTV movie awards aren't a serious event. I'm sure even the people who watch it know that it doesn't compare to the Oscars. No one really cares whether who wins "Best Movie Kiss" on the MTV awards. So there isn't any incentive for MTV to try to create an air of suspense -- no one cares anyway. The MTV awards show is just a forum to showcase all the hip Hollywood types to the young-kids-with-lots-of-disposable-money demographic. Hell, in the same way that people watch the Super Bowl just to enjoy the commericals, I'm sure a large portion of the MTV awards viewing audience is simply watching because of those comedy spin-off shorts they do.

      GMD

    3. Re:Not really by GuyMannDude · · Score: 5, Funny

      MTV sits back and basks in the flow of \.'ers

      Dude, you like totally messed up the "slash" in slashdot!

      LOOK HOW MICROSOFT HAS CORRUPTED OUR YOUTH!!

      GMD

    4. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus, I almost choked to death on my lifesaver.

    5. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i didn't

    6. Re:Not really by Mojojojo+Monkey+Inc. · · Score: 1

      Which reminds me, why the hell hasn't anyone registered backslashdot.org yet? I've got an incredible urge to go and do JUST THAT!

    7. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus can't hear you sweety.

      He's dead.

    8. Re:Not really by Asprin · · Score: 2

      Which reminds me, why the hell hasn't anyone registered backslashdot.org yet?

      Backslashdot? How is that supposed to work?

      A combination of major news sites and hitherto unknown web pages post a link to an obscure web site with one page that has something RELLY cool on it nobody's even seen because it can only handle 5 requests per minute since it's running on an Apple Newton with a Lego Mindstorm ethernet controller connected to a paper plate for optical storage.

      Oh, and it has Jon Katz, too.

      --
      "Lawyers are for sucks."
      - Doug McKenzie
    9. Re:Not really by sheldon · · Score: 2

      I was going to say...

      Last night while flipping stations I saw Reece Witherspoon accepting an award on MTV News. She told some story about her daughter liking the donkey from Shrek better.

      So this wasn't some secret.

      Although I don't understand why they didn't just broadcast the show live.

    10. Re:Not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Jesus can't hear you sweety.

      He's dead."


      What?! Thanks for ruining it for the rest of us!!!

    11. Re:Not really by Ozymandias_KoK · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the donkey was not only funnier, but better looking than she is, too.

    12. Re:Not really by pjp6259 · · Score: 1

      I think a better name would be whackdot.org

      --
      Computers don't make mistakes. What they do, they do on purpose.
  27. I Will Subscribe to Slashdot... by tealover · · Score: 0

    only if you guys stop using that gosh-darn awful phrase "Lone Gunman"

    Aarrghhhhhh !!!!!!!!!

    --
    -- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
  28. Makes sense... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Presumably, MTV has figured out that no one who uses the internet gives a shit about their movie awards or their channel.

  29. best movie my arse by jrs+1 · · Score: 1

    how are they doing the best movies of 2002 if we're still in 2002? if it's just the best movies of the last year then why the hell isn't amelie there? legally blonde? how did that get nominated? where do they get these retards to nominate movies from?

    dear mtv, fuck off and die. love, jrs

    1. Re:best movie my arse by exotrip · · Score: 1

      You are forgetting that MTV 's target demographic is retards, I mean teenagers. :P

      Jokes aside, I doubt most teens (and probably most adults) have heard of Amelie. MTV caters to a pop culture hungry group. Legally blonde is pop culture, Amelie is not. It's like being exasperated that Nickelback was not nominated for an Essence Award.

  30. way to go Will Smith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    first post?

  31. FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FP

  32. Booyeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First post WOOT!

  33. MWAHAHAHA!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FIRST POST!!!
    I am soo l33t!!!

    1. Re:MWAHAHAHA!!! by ozzimark · · Score: 0

      Does anyone else see a pattern forming here?

      --
      C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg
  34. Not a problem.... by Patman · · Score: 2

    Everyone else announced the award winners already. Read 'em on CNN a couple days ago.

  35. LOTR wins best picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They finally won something!!!!! Due Justice for such an excellent film...

  36. Award Listing by Eharley · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Just in case the webpage gets pulled.

    Best Male Performance Video
    Will Smith
    Ali

    Best Female Performance Video
    Nicole Kidman
    Moulin Rouge!

    Best On-Screen Team Video
    The Fast and the Furious
    Vin Diesel, Paul Walker

    Best Villain Video
    Denzel Washington
    Training Day

    Best Comedic Performance Video
    Reese Witherspoon
    Legally Blonde

    Best Musical Sequence Video
    Moulin Rouge!
    Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman

    Best Kiss Video
    American Pie 2
    Jason Biggs and Seann William Scott

    Best Action Sequence Video
    Pearl Harbor
    The Attack Scene

    Best Fight Video
    Rush Hour 2
    Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan versus The Hong Kong Gang

    Best Breakthrough Male Video
    Orlando Bloom
    The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

    Best Breakthrough Female Video
    Mandy Moore
    A Walk to Remember

    Best Movie Video
    The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

  37. Uhm,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not like the awards are live. They were days ago, and the results are pretty public. Most news sites covered them when they actually happened.

  38. Saving Grace by freakinPsycho · · Score: 2

    Well, we know for sure MTV has no taste now (in case there was any doubt).

    The only saving grace is that Brittney did not win.

    --
    "All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening."
    - Alexandar Woolcot
  39. Not a Lone Gunmen by SkywalkerOS8 · · Score: 1

    The MTV 2002 Movie Awards isn't live and was filmed this past weekend. After the filming, the winners were never a secret. I read the winners earlier this week on Yahoo. Here's a June 3 article on E!Online.

  40. How do we know it's not a hoax? by t0qer · · Score: 2

    Remember when they found that pic on the survivor show website that had the "winner" circled in red? How do we know this isn't the same kind of hoax?

  41. How not interesting! by billybob · · Score: 1

    Wow, this sure is great news! And it relates to all of us, because we all love mtv! Right guys?

    chrisd - you think anyone here gives a FUCK about the mtv movie awards? come on, mang.

    --
    Joseph?
  42. In case they take it down: by hex1848 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Best Male PerformanceWill Smith Ali

    Best Female PerformanceNicole Kidman Moulin Rouge!

    Best On-Screen Team The Fast and the Furious Vin Diesel, Paul Walker

    Best Villain Denzel Washington Training Day

    Best Comedic Performance Reese Witherspoon Legally Blonde

    Best Musical Sequence Moulin Rouge! Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman

    Best Kiss American Pie 2 Jason Biggs and Seann William Scott

    Best Action SequencePearl Harbor The Attack Scene

    Best Fight Rush Hour 2 Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan versus The Hong Kong Gang

    Breakthrough Male Orlando Bloom The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

    Breakthrough Female Mandy Moore A Walk to Remember

    Best Movie The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

    Best Cameo Snoop Dogg Training Day

    Best Line Legally Blonde "Oh, I like your outfit too, except when I dress up as a frigid bitch, I try not to look so constipated."
    --Reese Witherspoon

    Best Dressed Reese Witherspoon Legally Blonde

    1. Re:In case they take it down: by GuyMannDude · · Score: 5, Funny

      If there was any justice in the world:

      Best Villain Jack Valenti MPAA

  43. winners by nicedream · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Since this will eventually be shut down....

    Best Male Performance: Will Smith

    Best Female Performance: Nicole Kidman

    Best On Screen Team: Vin Diesel, Paul Walker

    Best Villain: Denzel Washington

    Best Comedic Performance: Reese Witherspoon

    Best Musical Sequence: Moulin Rouge, Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman

    Best Kiss: Jason Biggs and Seann William Scott

    Best Action Sequence: Pearl Harbor, The Attack Scene

    Best Fight: Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan versus The Hong Kong Gang

    Breakthrough Male: Orlando Bloom

    Breakthrough Female: Mandy Moore

    Best Movie: Lord of the Rings

    1. Re:winners by zoobaby · · Score: 1

      Who voted for crap like Pearl Harbor and Brittney Spears in Crossroads? OH God how did I know it was her movie?

  44. Thats crazy by StephenMitchell · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    FP!!!

  45. This must be very disappointing by apathyruiner · · Score: 1

    to those that allow MTV to tell them what to like. Now they don't get the full experience of being brainwashed by the crappy music, moronic presenters, and brain-dead audience.

    I cry for them.

    --
    -= I can't think of anything witty, creative, or insightful for my sig, so deal with this. =-
    1. Re:This must be very disappointing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I could be as cool as you are.

  46. The Slashdot effect to the rescue by szyzyg · · Score: 2

    Don't worry - now it's posted here the website won't be up long enough for too many non-slashdotters to read the results.

    1. Re:The Slashdot effect to the rescue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real /. er`s Don`t care about mtv that much, but there is something we can do about it.

      Hey everybody Britany won the "best kiss award" and the site has a behind the scenes of "crossroads" divx including some interesting dressing room shots!!!!

      Ok I was out of line sugesting that slasdoters care about bri... Hey look mtv.com is down and I didn`t even hit Submit!

  47. Take a look at the winners... by VonSnaggle · · Score: 1

    Is this what "normal" people really like? Legaly Blonde? Give me a friggen break!! And people think Hollywood is hurting from the internet. They are just producing crap!!!!

    --
    if common sense was common, wouldn't everyone have it?
    1. Re:Take a look at the winners... by wackybrit · · Score: 1, Troll

      Uh, Legally Blonde was great.

      Are you one of those pompous asses who can't tell the difference between a truly great movie and 90 minutes of entertainment while eating pizza? Legally Blonde was excellent entertainment. Hit all of the right comedy spots, effortless to watch, and Reese was looking gorgeous throughout.

      Note that it got best COMEDY, and not best FILM. Are you saying that comedy films are meant to be serious now?

  48. Results - *SPOILERS* by saberworks · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Are these from this year? The movies seem old :P

    **WARNING: SPOILERS**

    Best Male:
    WINNER Will Smith Ali

    Best Female:
    WINNER Nicole Kidman Moulin Rouge!

    Best Team:
    WINNER The Fast and the Furious Vin Diesel, Paul Walker

    Best Villain:
    WINNER Denzel Washington Training Day

    Best Musical Sequence:
    WINNER Moulin Rouge! Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman

    Best Kiss:
    WINNER American Pie 2 Jason Biggs and Seann William Scott

    Best Action Sequence:
    WINNER Pearl Harbor The Attack Scene

    Best Fight:
    WINNER Rush Hour 2 Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan versus The Hong Kong Gang

    Best Breakthrough Male (whatever that means):
    WINNER Orlando Bloom The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

    Best Breakthrough Female:
    WINNER Mandy Moore A Walk to Remember

    Best Movie:
    WINNER The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring

  49. MTV Awards? by fungus · · Score: 2, Funny

    What channel is that on?

    1. Re:MTV Awards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      31

  50. incase it IS pulled down... by metalhed77 · · Score: 1, Redundant

    here are the winners

    Best Male Performance: Will Smith: Ali
    Best Femaile Performance: Nicole Kidman, Moulin Rouge
    Best Onscreen Team: Vin Diesel and Paul Walker, the fast and the furious
    Best Villain: Denzel Washington, Training day
    Best Comedic Performance: Reese Witherspoon, legally blonde
    Best Musical Sequence: Ewan MacGregor and Nicole Kidman, Moulin Rouge
    Best Kiss: Jason Biggs and Sean William Scott, american pie 2
    Best Action Sequence: Perl Harbor, the attack scene
    Best Fight: Chris Tucker and Jackie Chan versus The Hong Kong Gang, Rush hour 2
    Breakthrough Male: Orlando Bloom, LOTR
    Breakthrough Female: Mandy Moore, a walk to remember
    Best Movie: LOTR

    --
    Photos.
  51. Old news... by Bluey · · Score: 1, Redundant

    The awards show was held last Saturday. The winners can be found on any news site. No new news is being given away on the MTV site.

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/760552.asp

  52. What about the opinion polls? by PlanetJIM · · Score: 1

    Actually, it looks to me (judging by the color scheme on the site) that the winner listed on those pages is the winner of the MTV opinion polls. Is that the same thing as the winner of the actual award?

    If they're different then this might just be a case of lousy web design rather than a case of bad management (of course, those two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive either... hm.)

    This would make a wonderful example for a usability test.

    --
    A Transmission From PlanetJIM.[end trans]
  53. All i can say is, who cares? by digidave · · Score: 2

    I hope I'm not alone in really hating awards shows. Do celebrities really need another reason to get full of themselves and pat themselves on the back? I used to work in an area where I'd meet various celebrities all the time and the only one I have ever met that isn't a jerk/bitch is Martin Short, who is actually quite funny in real life.

    I'll still watch the movies that look good, but I say "screw 'em" to celebrities. They should be embarrased about who they are.

    --
    The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
    1. Re:All i can say is, who cares? by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 3, Funny

      I totally agree... hollywood and the stars suck ass.

      No im not jelous. they really are a bunch of self patting on the back types. i would love to have as much money - but not for doing the same thing.

      I think its really sad that most people think that an actor is really intelligent based on the roles they play. Clue: everything they say in the movies - written by someone else!

      I never watch MTV - I have a life... thats why i read /. all day!! :P

    2. Re:All i can say is, who cares? by FamedLamer · · Score: 0


      I can't imagine these people actually enjoy this sort of thing...

      It's put on mainly for your lifeless trailer-dwellers.

    3. Re:All i can say is, who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I never watch MTV - I have a life... thats why i read /. all day!!"

      Then, like me, you don't really have much of a life.

    4. Re:All i can say is, who cares? by RetroGeek · · Score: 1

      I hope I'm not alone in really hating awards shows.

      You are not alone. I hate them too. Not only do I not watch the shows, I could care less who wins or has won, or...

      They should be embarrased about who they are.

      And so should the people that hang on their every word. Like an actor knows something about issues. Some full-of-himself actor came to town a few years ago, said something about the local problems. He had no perspective on the issues, but the local media treated it as a proclamation.

      --

      - - - - - - - - - - -
      I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
    5. Re:All i can say is, who cares? by dylan_- · · Score: 3, Funny


      I hope I'm not alone in really hating awards shows.


      Actually, the others are lying to make you feel better. You are actually alone in hating awards shows. Any time I've seen awards shows mentioned, I've never heard anyone complain about them, or suggest that it's emotional masturbation for half witted, moronic, self-indulgent, overrated goat-felchers.

      I'm afraid you're just a social outcast.

      --
      Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
  54. CNN already posted the winners.. by Frank+of+Earth · · Score: 1

    ... the night it was aired.. I believe it was Sunday.

    Big deal.

  55. Sorry! by saberworks · · Score: 1

    Crap, sorry. When I made the comment, it said ZERO posts on this on the front page... or else I wouldn't have put it again...

  56. britney spears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look, any awards ceremony that even *nominates* Britney Spears for *anything* probably doesn't deserve to run smoothly..

  57. What's the spread? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I gotta hurry up and call my bookie and put five large on LotR for best movie.

  58. And the winner is.. by cfadam · · Score: 1

    who cares. (sorry, i had to post _something_ it was so barren up here.)
    - A

  59. Time to make some fast cash... by jcsehak · · Score: 3, Funny

    placing bets with non-slashdotters (or non-mtv.com'ers)

    sweet.

    --

    c-hack.com |
  60. if only... by milliyear · · Score: 1

    Now if they would just publish the results of the 2004 elections, they'd really have a scoop.

    Hell, they could probably publish it 3 days after the election and beat the Supreme Court.

  61. um by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of the winners were detailed on several sites weeks ago, when the show was taped.

    Not that huge a deal.

  62. Smooth Move Ex-Lax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now you know who to hit up for your pre-show info, the web folks. Of course, they may not be too bright.

  63. Dinero by wilburdg · · Score: 1

    I think I know what I will be doing tonight...

    "Hey, I'll bet you five bucks that Will Smith is gonna get it for Ali..."

    "Your on!"

  64. DANG! i didn't win... maybe next year. by GrendelT · · Score: 1

    DANG! i didn't win... maybe next year.

  65. MTV Foo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Don't Drink and Code. Otherwise you pull an MTV.

    PADC
    Programmers Against Drinking and Coding

  66. hahhaa by GaLupo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    thanx mtv now i odnt have to sit through it like i was gonna watch it any way

  67. I'm not sure the winners are exactly a secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I saw articles online discussing who the winners were a day or two ago. They were either based on press releases or were written by people who were at the taping, but either way it doesn't seem like anyone is making a big effort to keep the information secret. If MTV wanted to do that they would broadcast it live...

  68. is anyone really surprised? by evacuate_the_bull · · Score: 1

    considering MTV is just a puppet of the RIAA and the MPAA, and we *all* know about the geniuses that work for them. sheesh. let me guess, "crossroads" (britney spears) won for best film?

    --
    Satanists get good grades too...suspiciously good grades
  69. Oh my... by Acrodizer · · Score: 1

    Oh how dare you spoil the movie awads that I would never watch anyways...

  70. I didn't even know there were such awards... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe it is because I don't have a television...

  71. Obligatory joke by CBNobi · · Score: 5, Funny

    What happens when your webmasters and the editing people don't communicate?

    JonKatz.

    1. Re:Obligatory joke by davmct · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points to mod this up. This is the funniest and most original Katz poke I've seen in a long time.

  72. Awards, Huh? by bellings · · Score: 2

    What, MTV gives out awards during the annual MTV movie awards? I'm trying to imagine why -- I suppose they need an excuse to show the studio sponsored DVD advertisements, and giving out meaningless awards was as good an excuse as anything else.

    The real dissappointment for me this year is that MTV hasn't released a lot of publicity photos of scantily clad women at this year's event. Without the promise nearly-naked hollywood chicks, I really can't find any reason to watch the show anyhow.

    I'm sure as hell not going to watch another two hour long advertisement for "The Fast and the Furious" and "Moulin Rouge" without getting something from it.

    --
    Slashdot is jumping the shark. I'm just driving the boat.
  73. Well, at least they got best movie right! by barc0001 · · Score: 1

    Some of their choices, and nominations for that matter sucked. Even NOMINATING Britney Spears, come on!

  74. best movie - LOTR:FOTR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who'd've thunked

    Mind You... what's up with the other categories like 'best kiss' ? Do they just mean raunchiest kiss ? Most humorous kiss ?

    Of course, this is Mus^H^Hediocre TeleVision, so I'm not sure what I was expecting - if anything at all.

  75. maybe non communication by spookysuicide · · Score: 2

    Maybe the web guys were sick of a bunch of slickster suits not inviting them to any of the good post-awards parties.

    --
    yes i run a goth/punk/emo porn site.
  76. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean there are still people that think MTV is relevant?

  77. ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=63 8&ncid=762&e=1&u=/nm/20020602/en_nm/leisure_mtvmov ie_dc_1

    Notice the date.

  78. Not complaining about options... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wil Smith won best actor? Thats like me winning Best Coder (I AM the king of calculator programing...)

  79. so it's a lousy spinoff? by SethJohnson · · Score: 2


    So if mtv's web page is pulling a lone gunman, then does that imply that there's a spinoff webpage that sucks worse than the original web page? Perhaps an mtv2.com webpage or some such crap?

    Wow, I guess there is! It sucks so bad it just redirects to port 89 of the regular mtv web server which then refuses the connection. Now that's what I call a lousy rehash of an existing website.
  80. Stupid MTV! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will mass media ever change? It is all the same fat concretive assholes in charge. We need more alternative press like Impact Press

  81. non-spoiler by BaconLT · · Score: 0
    Well,unless there's some conspiracy we don't know about, this could be the shortest /. thread ever.

    I guess the only thing funnier than miscommunication within the corporate machine is misinformation throughout the masses.

    --
    Who mediates your information?
  82. Saweet Jeebus! by fluxrad · · Score: 2

    see sig. end of post.

    --
    "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
  83. Oh my .. the frame from the LOTR they use :-o by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  84. Not pulled. Why bother... by crovira · · Score: 2

    Like, really.

    The fools who are going to watch MTV are probably snuggled down on the couch, scarfing pop Korn and geting (going?) down in front of the tube (of KY-Jelly?) waiting for the next spring break T&A fest.

    Big , uh, deal.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  85. Re:Spelling alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you meant Grammer

  86. Well, If anyone cared ... by Vinnie_333 · · Score: 0

    I suppose it would matter more at a more important awards show, like ... oh, wait. There are no important awards shows.

    --

    "We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
  87. Lameness by ShaKti · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Why? WhoTF cares? As if MTV has any sort of understanding of a great movie or actor is. Slashdot, please get your head out of your ass.

  88. They forgot one by MikeAR303 · · Score: 0

    Most feared news site for webmasters: SLASHDOT.ORG!

    --
    This post will be modded down for no particular reason by a sweaty 14 year old who is not allowed out past dark.
  89. Re:FY(mis)I- by frovingslosh · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I saw a news show report a few days ago too. But LOTR did not take best movie. This is MTV remember...even the webpage shows they gave it to Ali (Floats like a butterfly, stinks like a B movie).

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  90. Will Smith, best actor? by hardcorejon · · Score: 1



    The biggest sellout of them all wins top prize!

    Does anyone still had any doubts about the relevance of these bullshit awards?

    Stop Watching eMpTV

    - jonathan.

  91. presenting. the hoe of slashdhot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did anyone hear about that new radical diet that only allows for 1400 calories a day or something?

    being rampantly promoted as the way to "live longer!!" based on conclusions from several sceintists.

    My friends, this is the work of the media propagnda mission, and it is going to kill us. We need to re-take control. And fast.

    ***

  92. Re:FY(mis)I- by Geeky+Frignit · · Score: 1

    Umm...the page shows best male performer... If you go to the best movie page, LOTR did win.

    --
    Tired of sitting at that karma cap? Start a flame war today! See just how low you can go!
  93. Somebody remind me why... by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 2

    ...I should care?

    MTV stopped being relevant to people with any kind of good taste 10-15 years ago. You could also call MTV's Movie Awards a "Who's Cutest Contest" and still be pretty accurate.

    This really isn't a troll--it's a true statement.

    --
    Who did what now?
    1. Re:Somebody remind me why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought MTV was at least 21 years old, at least much more than 10-15...

  94. "Pull a Lone Gunman?" by GuavaBerry · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't the phrase be more meaningfully called 'pull a chrisd,' if what you're trying to say is 'foolishly spoil a surprise for millions of people?'

  95. wha?! by CaptTrips · · Score: 0


    And the award for a site "I never thought would grace Slashdot's homepage" goes to MTV.

    --

    grep >= ! == $your
  96. Re:Kelsey alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, he meant Grammar.

  97. uhhhhhhh by DippoNazdor · · Score: 1

    oh my gosh. this post has multiple purposes. 1) i don't care about mtv. i only watch it to see what artists i can rip off by downloading music. 2) yes, i was one of the people who were saying, "oh boy! lookee here! mtv fouled up and posted results online!" but then fellow slashdotters have opened my eyes to see that they were already online to begin with! 3) i saw like 40 "first posts". how many first posts can there be?! i thought there was only supposed to be one first post! and i saw like 10 different versions of the results. as if cnn and mtv didn't have the results already, /. has to carry them too. anyway, in closing, we all need to post faster to see who can get first post, we all need to stop watching mtv and turn on a friggin' radio, and we all need to be more conscious of the results for stuff.....

    --
    If we give our two cents, but it's a penny for our thoughts, do we get change back?
  98. NY time by foodb4nk · · Score: 0

    what time is it in New York???

    --
    *huh* Sig? WTF?
  99. sweet saved me a hour by f00zbll · · Score: 1

    now I don't have to find out who won. Not that it matters in any sense other than pure silly stupid entertainment.

  100. Trolled by RadioheadKid · · Score: 2

    Judging by the comments about the results being released by many news outlets, I think its fair to say that /. go trolled with this one, even if it was inadvertent.

    --
    "Karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos." -Homer Simpson
    1. Re:Trolled by felipeal · · Score: 2

      Actually, it's even worse than that.

      It is just a lame attempt from the editor to consolidade the 'to pull a Lone Gunman' verb, which was "invented" by himself.

      I'm almost convinced to put him on the list of editors to have the stories excluded (as someone already suggested)...

    2. Re:Trolled by eshaft · · Score: 1

      this sounds like a conspiracy! too bad the lone gunmen are dead...

      --
      lf.o
  101. Spoilers save time and money by ehiris · · Score: 2

    That's why MTV stands for Money Television.

    1. Re:Spoilers save time and money by CaptTrips · · Score: 0

      More like Mush Television

      --

      grep >= ! == $your
  102. I wish they'd do this with the academy awards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then I wouldn't have to sit through that crap.

  103. Nobody would be interested in this story... by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    ..but chrisd makes it work. Turn a mistake into a legend, a legend into opportunity. And it got me to use up a few more clicks.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  104. This isn't news.... by newerbob · · Score: 1
    ...in fact it isn't even a mistake!

    The show has already aired in some timezones, and the winners were announced in a press release.

    It must be a very slow news day.

    --

    --
    Ask the Ya-Hoot Oracle Anything!
    1. Re:This isn't news.... by tarzan353 · · Score: 0

      It must be a very slow news day.

      No, it's just slashdot. Par for the course 'round these parts.

  105. Re:Best Male Actor: Jar Jar Binks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And sir, may I ask, how you know Jar Jar is male???

  106. umm by tralfamador · · Score: 1

    that should be "pulled a slashdot"

  107. MTV -- the Disease of America by rob-fu · · Score: 0

    MTV is a cancer to this country.

    U.S. popular culture sucks, and MTV is the direct cause of it.

    When Puff Daddy is revered as an upstanding member of society and is throwing parties in the Hamptons with Martha Stewart, etc. there is something terribly wrong.

  108. mtv awards by butternipples+wee · · Score: 0, Troll

    anyone say instagib the 40 year old prick on tv

  109. ��ˆMOD PARENT UP!!!!��ˆ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  110. LOTR leak also? by australopithecus · · Score: 1

    hehe..if you go to the Lord of the Rings website, it says right on the first page: "LOTR wins MTV movie award for best movie"

  111. Dear God, Noooooo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My life is so affected by this drivel...

    Brought to you by the good people at Folgers Crystal Meth Labs

  112. The results have been everywhere all Week! by rochlin · · Score: 1

    Oh come on. Don't you watch TV? The "winners" have been published on TV, newspapers, whereever you want to look all week! It's not a live show! Here's an LA Times article that says better than I can. Suspense isn't the point of these awards. It's entertainment...

  113. No story here by niola · · Score: 2

    Hey folks,
    MTV does not do the Movie Awards live and I believe it was even filmed days ago and most of the mainstream media was issued releases of who won what a few days ago. There is no suprises with the Movie Awards since it is taped. People only really watch it for the skits and shit.

    Come to think of it I saw all the winners on one of those entertainment tonight shows or something the other day.

    --Jon

  114. Wow, ChrisD has invented a new idiom by BattyMan · · Score: 1

    I wonder if it will ever be as commonly used as "pulling a 'Homer'"?

    --
    Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
    1. Re:Wow, ChrisD has invented a new idiom by zephc · · Score: 2

      or to Munson something?

      --
      "I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
  115. interesting by onShore_Jake · · Score: 1

    Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

  116. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  117. thank you for watching MTV by cr@ckwhore · · Score: 2

    "Thank you for watching MTV, the shiny things network"

    --
    Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
  118. Hardly an Award Show... by Anenga · · Score: 1

    Angelina Jolie (Toom Raider) nominated for Best Actress? Fast and the Furious as the "Big Winner"? A Knight's Tale should not be nominated for anything! "Better a silly girl with a flower, than a silly boy with a stick!" WHAT?!

    Good thing the opinions of my teen peers aren't the only ones.

  119. s'okay .. by skotte · · Score: 2

    i was gonna just watch em fFor jack black. who cares who wins? they're all just MPAA puppets....

  120. Re:Best Male Actor: Jar Jar Binks by ObviousGuy · · Score: 1

    With a tongue like that, Jar Jar can only be a male or a lesbian.

    Since Binks was wearing pants, I'm going to assume he was a male. Let's play the game!

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
  121. Re: Star Wars spoilers... by SteffenM · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Yeah, and it'll be a HUGE surprise to find out that Padme is Luke's mother.

  122. MTV awards? They forgot to mention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that the winners are only picked from the list
    of movies that the vice president's secretary/slut's younger
    daughter liked.
    Or something to that effect.

    I don't watch tv.

    I do watch movies.

    Having seen the link I figured I'd see what
    the rest of the public were looking at on their
    boob tubes tonight and am amazed at the drivel.

    Ok.. maybe not amazed.. but it's disturbing to read
    something that the majority of folks take as normal
    these days. Bleah.. you can keep it..

  123. Re:Late night FP by j0nkatz · · Score: 0

    you forgot me!

    --
    Don't mod me, bro'!!!!
  124. MTV? Feh. by mstyne · · Score: 1

    The only reasons to justify watching was having Jack Black as a co-host and a performance by the White Stripes... even that wasn't enough to get me to tune in. I guess this could be considered one more reason not to! :)

    --
    mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
  125. Re:Dee Dee Ramone dead at 49 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, moderators are harsh today ... Sorry dude.

  126. People are forgetting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MTV movie awards are about being silly. Since when does categories like "best kiss, best fight" shout "serious"?

  127. Re:Dee Dee Ramone dead at 49 by Vinnie_333 · · Score: 0
    Very sad,

    We Americans are slowly losing our heritage, as lousy as that heritage is ...

    --

    "We shall party like the Greeks of old! You know the ones I mean." - HedonismBot
  128. The difference is... by mongoks · · Score: 0

    ...that people actually gave a shit about the XFiles whereas no one does about this...That's besides the fact (and it's already been pointed out many times so go ahead and mod me down for being redundant) that the results had been released already for a number of days...

  129. SPOILER FOR EPISODE III by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Actually, it's not. It's that old woman that was a friend of Anakin in Episode I (the one that warned about the storm). That's supposed to be the big "Vader is Luke's father"-type shock for the prequel trilogy...

  130. When you notice... by 3Suns · · Score: 3, Funny

    that Legally Blonde was nominated for almost every category, you have to ask yourself...

    Do I really care???

    --

    -3Suns

    ~~~~
    The Revolution will be Slashdotted
  131. Oh my God! by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh my God! The Load Gunmen had a show??

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  132. Re:Kelsey alert! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's gramme, you illitterate twit.

  133. are all /. jokes part of language now? by bilbobuggins · · Score: 1

    MTV pulling a Lone Gunmen is a Cowboy Neal of a story, meaning nobody gives a ****.

  134. Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by Kutsal · · Score: 1, Funny

    Who in their right minds would watch MTV Movie awards when Stanley Cup Finals is on anyways??

    GO WINGS!!!

    --
    Karma: Bad (but who really cares anyway?)
    1. Re:Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by Mr.Spaz · · Score: 1

      GO 'CANES!

    2. Re:Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by tweek · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      The canes went alright. You see Irbe watch that third goal blow past him? Didn't even make an attempt.

      Then again Hasek is Mr. Sprawl-on-the-ice-and-hope-i-block-something so I can't complain.

      hehehe.

      --
      "Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
    3. Re:Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by {tele}machus_*1 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You're trolling, but I'll bite on your dig at Hasek. Recall that he beat the man generally regarded as the best goalie in the world to get to the finals. He's unorthodox, and any young goalie would be insane to try to emulate him, but no one can deny that the man has played a phenomenal career. You might not like him, but he is one of the best goalies to ever play the game.

    4. Re:Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by tweek · · Score: 1

      Oh you misunderstood. I LOVE Hasek. He's got a completely new playstyle and it works. When you can get as many shutouts as he did during the playoffs up until now, you're a good goalie in my mind.

      The point I was trying to make is that it LOOKS ugly. Then again so does Rod Brind'amour ;)

      So don't misunderstand. I think Hasek is great. It's Roy I can't stand.

      --
      "Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
    5. Re:Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by {tele}machus_*1 · · Score: 1

      Ah, I get it now. I did misread your original comment.

    6. Re:Lone Gunman?? Who Cares!! by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      I just hate the Red Wings. I could care less who their goalie is at the time. I actually kinda like Hasek, but I'd much rather see the Canes win, even though I know that's unlikely.

      Roy may be the winningest goalie of all time, but when he's off, boy is he off. What the hell happened to him in Game 7? And why does he constantly pull bonehead moves like that Statue-Of-Liberty-look-at-my-great-save-oops-i-dro pped-the-puck-damn-its-in-the-net thing he did in game(5? 6? whichever)?

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  135. There's another serious error on the web page by Nailer · · Score: 1

    Okay, everyone else already knows the results of the awards. However, there is one serious error on the MTV web site...

    Vin Diesel was nominated for Best Male Performance

    1. Re:There's another serious error on the web page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the mtv bofh`s did this intentionally in the spirit of open-source, afterall whats better then letting all of the world check your work and iron out the bugs by mailing in improvements.

      I say these results are simply still open to discusion and the bofh`s are running a mailing list for it ;-)

  136. who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's MTV, not the frickin' Oscars.

  137. What we did for awards shows. by Salden · · Score: 1
    I am a developer for a major online music/movie retailer and we would literally watch the awards shows and update the pages (just by doing db update statements) when the winners were announced. Then we'd clear the page's cache and voila!

    It is ludicrous that MTV would screw this up! I know it was prerecorded and the results had been announced elsewhere but jeesus!

    1. Re:What we did for awards shows. by noahmax · · Score: 1
      hey salden -- i'm writing up this debacle for wired news. and i'd like to talk to you about your experiences. shoot me an e-mail at noahmax@inch.com, if you gets this.

      nms

  138. Offended by Chris Tucker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found myself offended by the comments of Chris Tucker. When is the black community going to start acting like Americans instead of African Americans. There are plenty of people in the US suffering from AIDS and living in poverty and he doesn't have to travel half way around the world to find it. I say Mr. Tucker if you wana help them out get back on that plane and tear your ass back to Africa. Chris Rock is better than you anyway.

  139. Re:VA software jokes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The short bus will buy to pick you up later Timmy.

  140. Re:Late night FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and me

    - anomymous coward.

  141. TIMEZONES!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You moron people on the east coast already saw the awards before you even posted this.

  142. On the topic of Vin Diesel by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

    I don't mean to demean the mentally challenged people of the world, but is it just me or do you get the feeling Vin Diesel arrived at the awards in a short, yellow limo?

  143. MTV's IT department has screwed up before by Nightwraith · · Score: 5, Funny

    This isn't the first time that MTV's Web stuff has been poorly implemented. Around January of 2001 my friends and I began to watch MTV2 pretty regularly.

    Lo and behold we found the wonders of MTV's Control Freak show. While a video was playing on the show, you could visit their web site and vote for the next video to air. All this was implement ed with a simple "click on this video to vote for it" page that was simply replaced/edited then refreshed each time the new video began to air.

    Well we had already implemeted a web interfaced, Linux based, MP3 jukebox hooked directly to our stereo and also to an FM-stereo transmitter for longer range listening. Now we had the opportunity to have our very own Video Jukebox (granted with a somewhat limited selection).

    So we wrote a program to parse the page for the voting URL's, display them for selection, and then create http connections submitting the appropriate vote. On the normal interface this would send you to a new page asking you to "Click here to vote again" and the whole process would repeat itself.

    Now normally you would wait for a response that the vote submission went through. We didn't really care if it did or not since we were submitting votes as fast as we could open the connections successfully.

    This seemed to work fine, however we were still unable to watch anything we wanted since the rest of the world was voting as well. On the videos that were evenly split, we would supply the (many) deciding votes, but for the runaway hits we didn't have a fast enough connection with our piddly 768 u/d DSL modem (~1000 votes/min)

    That prompted a redesign of the program. Version 2 allowed for distributed vote submission. With the resources that we had (root on a few high performance computers connected to a burstable T3) the distributed program soon allowed us to submit ~15000 votes/min.

    This solution worked like a charm. Start the threads and the percentage on our video would start to climb like a mountain goat. Switch the video we were voting for and that one would climb. Nothing like seeing a piece of crap (Busta Rhyme's YoYoYo) go from 1% to 97% in less than 2 minutes.

    Well that next week or the week after that, Control Freak was not being aired. "No worries, we'll hit 'em next week."
    The next week, the show came on. We started voting for our favorite video. The percentages went up. And up. And, wait a minute the percentages just dropped 25%!

    Seems that MTV had caught on to our scheme and was culling our votes from the pool. Bastards!

    Well, we kept at it to see if we could find the cutoff limit for votes from a single IP address (that was the only way we could think of for them to remove just our votes). That way we could run the client for x amount of time/votes and then shut it off for maximum effectiveness.

    That worked for a week. The next week we had upgraded the client to "spoof" random IP's with each vote it sent out to bypass the culling machine.

    It bypassed the culling machine alright. That week the percentages would climb, then something broke. The percentages went to 20K+% on each video. Then our video went to 0%. So we chose a new video. It went to 0%.

    Right then we shut down the operation. Up till that point, we had been doing nothing wrong (well cept maybe the IP spoofing of votes) since they had encouraged users to vote multiple times. We had simply removed the human factor of the voting process. But finally we had broken THEIR program.

    We surmised that the program held the vote tallys in an int and when we started submitting votes, the ints overflowed and caused a serious problem with negative numbers being used to calculate the percentages. If we had continued to vote in that manner MTV could have sued us for breaking their computers. Very bad scene for 3 college students with no money. Not to mention the fact that the computers connected to that T3 were not ours, and we probably would have lost those jobs and been sued for misuse of company resources.

    But, I'll tell you that was probably the most fun I have ever had hacking any type of program/protocol/interface/hardware. This produced immediate results that you could not only see, but your friends on the other side of town could see as well.

    1. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by noahmax · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      nightwraith -- i'd like to talk to you more about this. i'm writing up this whole debacle for wired news. drop me a line at noahmax@inch.com, willya?

      nms

    2. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by Alsee · · Score: 2, Flamebait

      Nothing like seeing a piece of crap (Busta Rhyme's YoYoYo) go from 1% to 97% in less than 2 minutes.

      Hmmmmm.........
      I wonder if this could explain N'stync and TittenySpears.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    3. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by {tele}machus_*1 · · Score: 1

      This story is highly entertaining, but if you are worried that you broke the law, why would you publish it on the internet where someone who might want to prosecute you could find out?

    4. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by newt_sd · · Score: 1

      Granted they should have put out a better system but you do realize this is why we don't get to enjoy lots of these types of web services. Thanks by the way my viewing habits for video's are different then yours looks like I am screwed huh.

      --
      ***I GOT NUTHIN***
    5. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by JahToasted · · Score: 1

      Hey maybe you can help out this guy.

    6. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by Nightwraith · · Score: 1

      Actually, the show (and the service) went on for about 2 months after we didi this. Notice that the show didn't die, nor did their service, based on any "interference" that we may have caused. The viewership simply wasn't there to keep the thing running.

      You complain that you couldn't watch the videos you wanted? Well then call some friends and start submitting votes for your video of choice. Or get off your lazy whining ass and write a better program to submit more votes than we could.

      Not once did we think that we were abusing the system. We simply put our resources to use and submitted as many votes as we could.

      As soon as we noticed a problem (_possibly_ caused by our actions) we terminated the project and allowed the normal course of events to take over. We didn't want to break their servers, we enjoyed watching the videos we voted for.

    7. Re:MTV's IT department has screwed up before by Nightwraith · · Score: 1

      I don't know how long the statute of limitations is on this sort of thing, and I don't think that we actually broke any laws doing it. If we had continued to pound their servers after becoming suspicious of the results of our program, then we probably would have been guilty of some act (morally if not legally).

      As for publishing it, if someone (MTV Legal?) wants to spend their money to track me down, with a subpeona to slashdot to identify my email, then another to my ISP to locate my residence, then take me to court to sue me for the no assets that I have, then let them. The online community and the MTV viewer community would have a field day with the bullying of a college student that used creativity and ingenuity to make the system work for him.

      What percentage of MTV's viewers are college students? I would wager a guess at better than 50%. You wouldn't watch a TV program if you knew that the company broadcasting it was willing to sue you for watching/participating would you?

  144. ferst poast? by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    furst powst!

    --
    That was classic intercourse!
  145. OT: moderators by nicedream · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    0: redundant? What's up with that? Yeah I was the second person to post it. But we posted less than ONE minute apart. Obviously I wasn't karma whoring. Slashdot moderation........

  146. still up by sconeu · · Score: 2

    as of now.

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  147. Here is the reference by Keebler71 · · Score: 1

    Here is the reference you are looking for. Read the first few responses.... the other 600 all say the same thing.

    --
    "It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
  148. News for nerds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ...stuff that matters.

    Favorite Equation... F=ma a^2+b^2=c^2 (pi)r^2 e^x E=mc^2 2^|S| > |S| T = $ CowboyNeal, Q.E.D.

  149. Stupid MTV by ekapus · · Score: 1

    And the worst part about it, is that for the 5 mins I turned it on to see the white stripes, I was incredibly disappointed. They totally made them into pop shite, I think it's the dancers that did it. Why does MTV think everything is better with dancers?

    Wankers.

  150. Not a leak; CNN published those winners 4 days ago by dstone · · Score: 3, Informative

    To the /. editors... Rather than get /. readers whipped into a 'this is news' frenzy, please consider doing some basic research on your stories before publishing them. Four days ago, CNN published those winners, as simple news (not even a 'leak') back then.

    Maybe chrisd was just hoping other people make mistakes similar to his original Lone Gunman fiasco. ;-)

  151. not likely by eshaft · · Score: 1

    doubtful. nothing in soap operas or x-files is ever really dead.

    --
    lf.o
  152. Happened to Tough Enough too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MTV pulled the same stunt for Tough Enough. The reality who in which contestants vying for a WWF contract are eliminated, over a 13 week period. During the second to last show a commercial for the season finale aired, revealing who would be cut that episode. A little sloppy and anti-climactic, but yeah.

  153. even saw some footage on a website already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it s an online video sindycation, it s been up there 3 days already,

    http://www.lulop.com

  154. silly me... by corian · · Score: 1


    I always thought that the purpose of awards ceremony was to honor those who did a good job, not to pretend to be a suspense movie. Publicizing the awards does not ruin the awards show -- unless the awards show is incredibly badly done. The awards show has its own benefits -- you typically get to see the work up for consideration, you get to see the artist him/herself, you get to hear their gratitude. Some people also like to see how the stars dress up. All of these things are completely separate from whether a list of winners are available.

  155. Why Shrek? by nagora · · Score: 1
    Why does Shrek keep getting awards? Monsters Inc was better in every department: acting, story, animation (much better than Shrek), design, originality....

    TWW

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  156. duh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and i was wondering why all of the ads for the stupid show had clips of the people in it doing bits.

    er.

  157. Spoiler? by saintlupus · · Score: 2

    in case you can't figure it out, spoiler alert...

    Hmm. That would imply that I was biting my nails on the edge of my seat, just dying to find out who won the Blandest Small-Chested Actress award.

    --saint

  158. Re:Not a leak; CNN published those winners 4 days by bluebomber · · Score: 2
    From the CNN story:
    Performers and presenters at the 2002 show, taped [on June 2] at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles for broadcast Thursday...
  159. Hey, where are the Slashdot Awards? by gosand · · Score: 2
    So when are we going to see the Slashies?

    And the nominees for most hated "journalist" on slashdot are:
    Jon Katz.

    And the winner (loser) is...

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  160. MTV winner by totallygeek · · Score: 2
    I vote for Kellie Osbourne all the way! She did a great job performing Madonna's "Papa Don't Preach".

  161. who gives a duck fart? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you really care about what the twisted minds at MTV think....then you have problems.

    Talk about a complete waste of cable bandwidth.

    MTV is the scourge of our youth. And more.

  162. Re:Best Male Actor: Jar Jar Binks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lebians wear pants, too.
    BTW: How do we know that there are only 2 genders in Jar-Jar Binks species ?

  163. Re:Not a leak; CNN published those winners 4 days by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude. The audience is full of thousands of people. You think they tell them all "shhhhH! don't tell anyone until thursday?!"

  164. Who cares? The real winners are indy films and act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, we all know, many things coming from the US are silly stuff for simple-minded people.

    Unfortunately, MTV is no exception. Take a look at the list of nominated movies. I can't see anything but crappy commercial bullshit in the list.

    Thus, does it matter who is the winner out of crap? Do you really believe that being elected as the best movie out of crappy commercial bullshit movies makes a good movie? Poor guys.

    I'd wish the thumb MTV crowd watched some European indy movies once in a while. That's what I call good films! They are the real winners!

    Nevertheless I am damn happy they are not nominated for any MTV or Academy awards as they are an insult for every good movie maker.

    Commercialism just spoils everything. But the people first.

  165. Is it just me... by db · · Score: 1

    ...or is Vin Diesel possibly the stupidest human being on earth? :]

    DAB

  166. Who picks teh winners? by RatBastard · · Score: 1

    Who picked the winners? 13-year olds?

    --
    Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
  167. What idiot watched it for the awards anyway? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just watched it for the chance to oogle Sarah Michelle Gellar, Wynona Ryer, Mandy Moore, Hillary Swank and the other sexy celebs in attendance.

  168. Re:Not a leak; CNN published those winners 4 days by LafinJack · · Score: 1

    To the /. editors... please consider doing some basic research on your stories before publishing them.

    Think for a second of what you're asking and who you're asking it of. ;)

    --
    we are building a religion
    a limited edition
    we are now accepting callers
    for these pendant key chains
  169. Irony by cybrpnk2 · · Score: 2

    irony : The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain). An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity.

    Duh, I think "lone gunmen" fits this definition pretty well as an "ironic" statement. I'm well aware it's a play on words referencing JFK - the LG origins ep from X-Files explains it quite clearly with Deep Throat II's parting exchange on the loading dock. And although you couldn't know that I remember very well The Day Kennedy Got Shot (impossible to forget the adrenaline rush, the world was different then, lots of people actually believed we would get nuked from the Russians by sunset), lots of people weren't even born at that time (or failed to become X-Files fans since) and might very well not get the "lone gunmen" reference. That doesn't make them a "jackass", and I for one would never "hate having to explain" a significant historical reference so that we all have a cultural identity to share regardless of our age or experience. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it....