Slashdot Mirror
How Has Post-9/11 Legislation Affected You?
goldspider asks: "I hope this is received in the spirit it was intended in. In a recent Reuters article, the Internet as a whole has been referred to as 'collateral damage' of the U.S.-led War on Terrorism, because of the perceived loss in privacy and online rights as a result of post-9/11 legislation. I am curious to hear about some specific examples of how this legislation has personally or professionally affected the everyday lives of Slashdot readers."
...so it hasn't really, sadly enough to say. But I think the even affected everyone on the continent in some way or another.
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
So I guess that you could say that what used to just piss people off is now considered domestic terrorism. Some people OBVIOUSLY overreact to situations and play on the emotions. I would really like to seem some legislation against PROFITING on 9/11.
I live a few miles from the Canadian border. I've been searched at least 20-30 times since September 11 going across to the Casinos in Windsor.
I'm sick of people saying "Oh, it doesn't bother me because it makes me feel safer." It DOES bother me, and NO, it DOESN'T make me feel safer. If someone wanted to get across the border with explosives or something, they're gonna do it and these stupid spot checks aren't prevent it.
My journal has hot
It's even worse when they say "So?"
Like everyone else, there's the delay...
But, unlike most people, I use an insulin pump. Most security people aren't keen on seeing someone with a small mechanical device and tubes attached to their body. Also, the insulin, needles, lancet, etc all get a good look through. I get stopped and have my bags inspected pretty much every time I go through. It's made me use air travel as a last resort.
I think what we will find is that right now many government departments are on a power grab. At first we will not be affected by the new laws but they will slowly increase the strangle hold that they have until they eventually control things. but hopefully by then we will figure out ways to get around there new holds.
I don't use eleetism in my Email
News Flash to Airlines: Security checks make *you* feel safer and make the rest of us feel like cattle.
The cost and hassle and privacy violations required to fly make me glad I have a car that will go 300k+ miles in its lifetime.
Well, I work for a computer security company which was just aquired after a great year of sales after 9/11. Certainly the company would still be doing well, but perhaps not quite as well if people weren't directly interested in security.
Thus 9/11 directly influenced my bank account, and likely many many other people's, albeit not in the same direction.
I can't think of anything that has directly impacted me as of yet, but there are things about the past year that are very disturbing.
The biggest thing is that the government appears to be milking the 9/11 event for all it's worth in steps, releasing little tidbits of the story and new footage or new suspects found every time it wants to pass something through the houses without causing too much trouble with the public. Whip the public into a patriotic fervor of such levels that they willingly give up their freedoms in the name of staying safe and 'free of terrorists'.
Examples would be the Citizen Corps program that Bush started, it's effectively eastern european 'secret police' all over again, call in your neighbor for suspicious activity and get them put on surveilance and possibly carted away. Also the 'Patriot Act' and a few other bills that are aimed at increasing the governments power over individuals, all in the name of 'freedom'.
So have I felt any solid effects of anything since then? No. Can I see a picture start to form the way they've been manipulating (or attempting to) the public to push forward an agenda? Yes.
As far as the net goes with regards to 9/11...I have seen no changes whatsoever.
/. is viewed as a radical site--yikes)
Here's the deal for me:
I don't download music, movies, or software that isn't free, nor do I download porn. (Shocked silence should ensue here I guess. Why look at porn when you have a beautiful woman at home?)
I don't (moral obligation, lack of caring, whatever you want to call it) do activities that could bring me under suspicion of any government agency. (unles
Anyhow, to use a phrase from the late, great DA:
I'm mostly harmless.
So, my access has stayed the same. I guess I am just a boring person.
Yeah, I read the article too....*shrugs* the only thing that has caused me concern has been my apparent need for penis enlargement and breast reduction surgery..at least there are people in the world that think I need both, and want me to make lots of money out of the kindness of their hearts.
Sent from your iPad.
It hasn't affected me in a significant way at all. I'm European though. But I still don't get the whole big idea around the Sept. 11 attacks. Worse stuff has happened in the past.
Hate me!
Did this REALLY need to be posted the day before Sep 11? No mention on /. of the brave firefighters who perished that day, or the other thousands of innocent people who died. Just someone griping because they think someone is going to take their precious internet anonymity away. Jackass.
Though this is a small percentage, it does hurt the people in the recieving end. The economy has made things worse when few people who lose jobs blame it on the H-1Bs.
There was a restructuring in my company and now the message boards are full of hate.
I guess the general hate level of the people has increased and also the economy is not helping.
God Bless America...
As an airport security worker, I feel as though my obligations have multiplied ten-fold. My responsibilities - especially morally have also greatly increased.
The only upside to 9/11 for me has been that people now respect me for the job I try to do much more, previously people griped when being security checked but now very rarely does this occur.
But there are a minority who judge me as though I am poor at my job, especially in light of the current security breaches (check UK news sites) of people managing to smuggle the same weapons as used to hijack the planes on 9/11 on to aircrafts now.
This despite the fact I do the job as I always have done, believing I am protecting the people - working as hard as I possibly can to make sure the tragic events never occur again.
I agree that the Patriot Act has severely limited the freedoms of American citizens. BUT, in a few years a Democrat president will appoint more liberal justices to the Supreme Court. Right now, it is a 5-4 split, conservative-liberal. Once the balance is upset back in the favor of liberals, a la 1960's-1980's, the ACLU and other lawyers will being to challenge these laws. There is no way a challenge is going to fly with these courts and the general sentiments of the populace so soon after 9/11/01.
Worst, there's a great possibility that none terrorist knows where Portugal is, so we're pretty safe, I think.
Invisibility kicks ass, Portugal is a stealth country!
Cirruz
In our industry, although we are state and government regulated and completely legitimate, we are considered an "online gambling website", and as such through the legislation if we accept online account deposits via visa or mastercard we will be shut down. We've had to be very careful as a result of this legislation and it makes life unfun.
...in our government. "Terrorism" is used as an excuse to let the government do anything they want. The problem is that we don't even know what terrorism is. It's just a type of war we don't like. What about when we fought for our freedom from the British? We fought indian style and they were appaled that we wouldn't face them in straight lines and bright colors. Anyone can go to war against anyone, whenever and however they like and we have to deal with it and not treat it as such a special case. Hell, 9/11 was nothing. We've killed alot more people than that.
Question
http://www.ironfroggy.com/
Let's see...My father is a capitain with USAir. My mother used to work on wallstreet. Many of her friends still worked in the towers; 53 people from her old parish died. Our president turned out to be a facist. airport scenes of the USA look like those from movies such as 'Spy Game' and that Russel Crow movie about the hostage negotiation gone bad. I'm starting to feel like I live in East Germany.
I am curious to hear about some specific examples of how this legislation has personally or professionally affected the everyday lives of Slashdot readers."
I'm sorry, but we've done too much to "commemorate" September 11. What's done is done, and let the dead bury the dead. We should not brand Arabs as guilty and evil. Bush did a poor job handling 9/11. He has killed too many innocent lives in Afghanistan. Iraq should not be an American target. Why don't we just...
*** Knock *** Knock *** Knock ***
"Hello? Yes, how can I help you? Yes, I am loyal to my country. What? Hey! Where are you taking me?!?"
---
How has it affected me? I'm worried about what I say in public; that's how it's affected me.
ms
Well, the question should rather be: Did 9/11 keep *anything* as is?
"What you 'seek' is what you get!"
So many cry-babies on Slashdot, I support the ACLU and EFF. You don't have to support the same groups I do but please DO SOMETHING!
(lets take a simple test shall we?)
When was the last time you called/e-mailed/FAXed your elected representative?
Did you VOTE?
Do you support any civil liberties group?
Your score : 0 - Shut the fuck up. You have no right to bitch. WAKE UP DUMBFUCK!
Your score : 1 - That's a small start, now lets keep it moving shall we?
Your score : 2 - Warmer, now lets call our rep again...
Your score : 3 - GOOD, lets keep it up, I fax my representatives about 2-3 times a week, How about you?
The following is just a sig. (but still true)
If you voted for Nader, THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!
If that's not enough, I have a degree in political science. As such, this has a profound effect on my primary field of study.
Is that good enough for you?
There have been no changes that signficantly impact anyone one slashdot, unless one has serious ties to Islamists.
GASP! What is that? How can it be?
Outside of one alarmist Retuers article, the reality is that for 99.999% of people out there (which leaves approxamitly 2500 people left in america) there has been absolutly zilch change, with the exception of the fact that our airports are not the second most secure (we have a long way to go before we hit the level that is El-Al) and border crossings take longer.
(And don't give me the argument that Europe's are better. No they are not. I was there, I was scared at how easy it was, and this was a week after Reid decided to prove how lax security was).
Reality Check... 99.99% of slashdot probably constists of white males/females who are athiest/christian/jewish/hindu/moderate islam, which are viewed to be infidels by certain people. Reminder. THESE GUYS WANT TO KILL US. Plain and Simple. Ignoring the rhetoric, it comes down to that. Frankly, if they catch a guy who has been spending time in Afganistan in the company of the Taliban or Al-Qeda Lock him up for a VLT (Very Long Time).
If you find someone who is of obvious leanings, has home videos of other peoples kids and Disneyland and plans of the local radation generation, make friggen sure that said individual is not going to cry "Allahu Ackbar" and take a plan into either a) the sea, b) A building, c) a nuclear reactor...
And if it did, the only reason you know is because you're probably behind bars right now for breaking the law.
.mp3's you traded, or your nasty letter to your IRC honey. The only people affected are people doing shit they shouldn't be doing.
./ meetup or kiss a girl or something. There are more things to worry about than this...
C'mon, really. The gov. is not interested in how much pr0n you download or how many
Besides, haven't we seen that the government agencies are so inept, there's nothing worry about?
I used to be one of the paranoid types. Aliens, the illuminati, all that shit. I got over it. If you step back and put it into perspective, you realize there's nothing to worry about. You are not that important. j00 are n07 1n t3h M47r1x! They are not after you m4d 1337 h4xx0ring ski11z!
Go get a date for the next
(Man, that felt good. Bad karma here i come...)
I am sick of having Joe Idiot Security guard poking his stick or whatever through my gear bag. If the TSA kills my PDA while doing their "search" I want some BUTT! Some may think oh is that all? YES! I paid lots of bucks for my gear and some idiot poking through my bag with a stick and possibly breaking stuff because they think they might find something bad is idiotic. Also, if we are going to do security, then do it the same in every public building. When I went to the Smithsonian, in one museum(American History Museum) I got a stick poked through my bag. In another(Air and Space Mueseum), I had to pretty much go through an airport treatment. Bag in xray and walk through metal detector. Are the Air and Space things more important? Also I am sick of having to remove my laptop from my bag. Does that and other "additional" security make me safer? No it makes me feel paranoid some idiot will drop my laptop on the way to swab it with that thing. Also, I noticed another item has hit the electronic devices ban on airplanes. You can no longer have a GPS device active on a airplane (even though every aircraft probably has one too). Things have changed security wise but has their actually been any security studies done to see if it proves it? I don't think so. At least they won't ask those stupid questions any more (Anyone ask ya to put stuff in your bag, have your bags ever been out of your control....that deal). I mean they were asking those BEFORE 9/11. Let's do something. Let's have the FAA do a study on both PED's and security. Let's see if a GPS, cellphone, radio, laptop actually do cause interferance to the avionics in a typical airliner. Let's see if having your 2 inches of recline during take off and landing makes you safer. Let's see if your tray table being up during take off and landing make you safer too. Let's do something we should have a long time ago...a scientific study before we do policy. It can't be any worse then what we do now.
Gorkman
I have had to fly once during the past year, and I regretted every minute of it.
I am reminded of the Communist Trials, the stupidity of which we look back upon now and laugh at. In one airport run, I had to stand and watch both a girl who could barely see over the table on which her items were being rifled through get wanded, as well as my 80-year-old grandmother get "randomly searched" while sitting in her wheelchair. Upon seeing such unwarrented hysteria, I realized the terrorists had won.
And then there was the time I forgot my tickets with my group when I wanted to wander around the airport, just to see the sights (hey, it was a vacation, right?) Bad idea. Apparently only terrorists want to get past the security checkpoints to go to the gates.
And then there was the security checkpoint. Fortunately for me, I quickly learned which metal items in my pockets would set them off and which wouldn't. The rest of my party, however, wasn't so fortunate. One of them got a toenail clipper confiscated. Not the nail-file or the nail-clippers, mind you. Just the toenail clipper. Granted, my set got through the checkpoint without a hitch all four times.
So what am I going to do about all of this? Simple: It's a democratic country, so I'm going to vote against it by not flying whenever possible. I intend to drive to many places, and take a train to others. The upside is that in many cases for local trips, it will actually be more convenient and quicker, because I will not have the checkpoints to deal with, and I won't have to get a rental car.
It's a shame. When I was young, I very much looked forward to flying. Now I loathe it.
char sig[120] = "\0"
I live in Washington DC, and there are big tanks with army guys holding heavy assault rifels pointed at the roads as you drive by. I actually think this is kind of cool, except everyone goes the stupid speed limit (like they're gonna hop in their tank and give you a ticket)! On most other highways people average closer to 15 over, so it is a big difference. This adds to traffic around rush hour too, but thankfully I don't need to drive on this road most of the time.
Besides that, and the fact that new years was borring because nobody wanted to go to the mall (place in DC) or to New York City, I haven't felt much of the heat dirctly.
"Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." -Philips
I've been looking for a job for more than three months now. I am nearly finish my graduate program in Information System. My previous job was for school, but I cannot keep the job because I do not have enough credit hours (I am only finishing my thesis). I don't know if this only happen to me or everybody else. I am not a citizen but have the authorization to work in the US. I also don't know if this affects the chance of getting employed.
I would like to hear more about this. I am a 9/11 researcher who looks at all stories, no matter what. Please feel free to check out my web site and write to me. My PGP key is in the ABOUT section of my site if you want to talk.
Thanks,
Kevin
But then again, being a foreigner I suppose I shouldn't have expected anything less. However, in reality it has still made me very angry. I have uprooted my entire family to come and make something better for them over in the US and then this comes along and threatens to wipe my future out.
Now if I was some scumbag then that would be OK, but I just want to put in an honest day's work. And for all you people out there saying that there are a bunch of Americans that want jobs as well please read on. I have seen numerous ads on the jobsites looking for somebody with my skills (ABAP programming) so I apply for these jobs. After a couple of days I follow up. Sometimes I get a reply, sometimes not. If I do get a reply then it is always the same. "We don't employ H1's." Now, some of these same ads have been running for more than 8 weeks. So, they have still not managed to find an American to fit the bill, yet I don't get asked to interview. All this is a direct result of 9/11 as I had no problem getting a job prior to that. People are stupidly paranoid of foreigners all of a sudden.
This makes me sad in a way because I grew up in a country filled with terrorism and the one thing I learnt was this:
The minute you change your lifestyle due to fear then they have already succeeded.
These terrorists don't need to drop a single bomb on the US to further their goals. The media and the government are doing a sterling job of terrifying their citizens all on their own.
End of rant. What can I say? I am frustrated as hell that there are jobs out there and I simply cannot get one of them due to people's fear.
By the way, if somebody does feel like employing a foreign ABAP programmer, then please send me an email. Mod me as you wish.
That's part of the problem...guess not in a major way yet
You think internet interests have been hit hard by post 9/11 legislation, trying being a private pilot these days. Despite the fact that this heinous act was conducted with big planes, its the little ones (like the Mooney I own) that are the first ones to be singled out when it comes time to hand down more restrictive measures. Three days after the attacks, the commercial airliners were back in the air. We had to wait a month, and then we were so awash in new and constantly changing regulations that it was impossible to keep up. Imagine taking off for a two hour flight and having the rules change while you're airborn. It was not unusual for a flight to be legal when you took off and illegal by the time it was over. The onslaught of new rules has been so bad that the FAA will run out of 4-digit numbers with which to label them. Yes, we are rapidly approaching federal notam (notice to airman) number 9999, at which point they will have to start numbering them at 0 again.
Remember when they announced they were restricting general aviation flights over nuclear power plants? You know what the official notice from the FAA said? The notice said we were forbidden from flying within 5 miles of a power plant, but then gave us nothing better than a vague description of where those plants were located! So we were told we had to remain clear (and if we didn't we would be intercepted by fighters and possibly shot down) but not told the locations we had to remain clear OF: just city names and vague directions, like "15 miles northwest of Anytown, IL". Even the pilot briefers we called on the phone--the very FAA representatives whose purpose in life is to tell pilots about notams--didn't understand the notices. Depending on who and when you would call you would get a different story about what was legal and what wasn't. And the ATC folks were just as confused. The tower at your departing airport would say your flight is okay, but the one at your destination would declare you in violation of some temporary flight restriction.
Many aviation related business went bankrupt and many more are teetering on the edge as a result of this. The airlines are bad off as we all know, but the small airports are in worse shape. And we are constantly under a cloud of threatened onerous increases in security for our airports: in most cases they are security measures that make no sense at all. Imagine owning property but being subject to a security check before you were allowed to go out to it.
Lots of folks just gave up flying, some temporarily and some permanently. I'm happy to sacrifice for my country, but the sacrifice should have some value. Most of what I've seen in the way of GA restrictions has been meaningless and senseless. And it's not really the restrictions themselves that bother me, but way in which they have been handled.
Mooney Guy N4074H
I fly every week and when it first happened the lines at SFO were insane, now I just find that the flights are less frequent but the lines are much quicker now that SFO has become more efficient with the searches. I don't think that the skies are much safer but then again I don't think that the terrorist are going to try that again, they would try something different. I also have been affected because as a pacifist I am ostrisized even more so that pre 9/11 and am scared sh!tless how many people just sit buy and watch thier freedoms taken away, daily on slashdot if you post anything even slightly anti war or anti bush you are sure to be told you are stupid when in fact I just don't see a purpose in letting the terrorist win and letting Ashcroft take away my freedoms.
I went to the airport several times this year. They checked my shoes for bombs :-) Other than that, it's been pretty normal.
I am MuchTall
I re-installed PGP and generated a new key...
- Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
dot.commed twice in one year. Hows that for a start?
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun."
Now you don't have the option.
This is almost a flame, but I'd say that from the comments I've seen so far, NO ONE has been really affected. The liberal/civil liberties/privacy types say they've been affected, but if you read further down their comments, they'll all say the same thing: "I worry about our government more than I did before". Not "I got jailed for being a member of an Al-Qaida spin-off cell", and not even "my phone is tapped 24/7 because I read Slashdot and use Linux". In short, those American citizens who are saying they are affected by the laws are "comfortably concerned citizens". Although I'm sure some unscrupulous government droid will use these laws to an evil end, no one seems to have been seriously affected yet.
Of course, a paranoid way of looking at things might be that the reason no one has said anything is that the people affected are either trying to keep a low profile or already are in a top-secret federal prison somewhere....
There's no sig like this sig anywhere near this sig, so this must be the sig.
It's a huge issue at Clemson University. There, tailgating for football games is a way of life. Up until 9-11, most people would go to the game, then go back to their tailgate spot during half-time (who wants to watch a band?). We'd drink and eat more, then go back to the game. Well, Clemson outlawed pass-outs (funny name, considering all this drinking), which means you can no longer leave the stadium and return, unless of course you buy another ticket.
This isn't all that important to the quality of life, but it's a good example of an institution making a profit oriented rule and hiding it under the false label of increased security.
~ now you know
Not sure who the orginal author is as it was sent around at work...
As the anniversary of 9-11 approaches, Americans and ditto-heads alike are converging
to reflect upon the tragedy and its consequences. So let's review the state of the nation:
Bin Laden is still at large
The anthrax killer is also still at large
Halliburton and Carlyle are still making money from war
Saudi Arabia is still an evil influence
Ashcroft is still shredding the constitution
Bush the lesser is still an idiot
The Clintons are still being slandered
Gore is still being demonized
The economy is still going south
The religious right are still insane
Cancer and AIDS patients are still being criminalized
Corporate criminals are still getting off
Health insurance is still grossly expensive
Drug companies are still raping the elderly and disabled
Star Wars is still a Bad Idea
Mother Nature is still NOT HAPPY
Right wing shills still claim to be patriots
Mass media is still supine
I just thought I'd mention this one since it was a great article.
There was a letter to the editor in this quarter's issue of "2600."
In it, this guy was talking about how he was pulled off a plane just before it was about to leave the gate because a flight attendant saw him reading an article in 2600 about vulnerabilities in "Passport." She claimed he was reading a terrorist pamphlet.
The story of course ends with this guy being rescreened after talking to a few spooks and being let back on the plane. Of course, he said his flight was something like 2 hours late at this point.
Screw the new laws, I'm more worried about the new public attitudes that are letting this kind of shit go down without so much as a second thought.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
First of all, legislation after 9/11 has affected everyone here the same way that ALL legislation has affected us: by expanding government. The only way to pay for an expanded government is by raising taxes (at some level, either income taxes, payroll taxes, tariffs, sales taxes, or other government added fees).
This means less of MY money is available to spend on what I want to spend it on. Government steals from me to give to their friends (whether its defense contractors, or just the typical pork barrel recipients).
I read EVERY bill which passes through my Congressional Rep's hands (they're all visible on the web) and I have yet to see any bill yet that really "protects" us.
Now, my tax dollars are going to be used to help out Dubya's oil buddies when we go to war against Iraq, a country which has shown no provocation against me personally, neither through threats nor transgressions.
This is the biggest loss I think we all face. The loss of the right to use our hard earned dollars in ways WE INDIVIDUALLY want to. I could care less what my fellow Americans want to do with their money, but when they steal from me for their assinine programs, that's when I start getting angry.
Maybe soon I'll be saying "Costa Rica, here I come!"
Now, which is more difficult to bare? The inconvenience of the search, or another 9/11 style attack?
Definitely the 9/11 style attack. I constantly live in fear that terrorists will smuggle a Boeing 757 (fully loaded with jet fuel) into the US from Canada in their car trunk. They'll then go to a public library, and after checking out books like "How to Blow Up Big Buildings with Commercial Airliners", they'll rent out a fleet of crop-sprayers over the Internet, using PGP. They'll tow the 757 to an airstrip using this fleet of crop-sprayers (conserving the 757's fuel for a really big explosion). They'll then suspiciously mill around the plane for a while in plain view of the neighbors with signs up saying "Die America" and "Kablooie Empire State Building". After a while, they'll take off and ram into the Empire State building.
Fortunately, the federal government has forseen this chain of events, and taken prompt action to stop the terrorists at any point.
(My apologies: I couldn't manage to somehow work in a number of federal stupidities like the uncomfortably KGB-like and extremely expensive Office of Homeland Security and the stupid regs that made an aircraft attendant make my father break the apparently deadly file off his nail clippers in his toiletries kit.)
May we never see th
I've had to undergo a federal background check, been fingerprinted at work, got the "whiz quiz", the whole nine yards. And I'm a blue-eyed Minnesotan by birth, doing IT for a small regional airline (small turbo-prop planes only). I would imagine IT in bigger airlines have gone through even more security and background checking. (My HR gal actually kidded me about my younger years when she finished my background check)
I'm in the UK and can't say it's really affected my day to day life. The extra security precautions at airports I've heard about don't really suprise me. In fact the last time I was over in the US (before Sept11) I was more suprised by the total lack of any serious security on internal flights. (Well that and the 'Are you or have you ever been involved in terrorism' tick-box on the visa form - do they really catch any incredibly stupid terrorists that way?) I do however have new awe for the ability of certain segments of the American population to turn anything into a marketing opportunity.
But now thanks to the All-American Patriot Act, we can monitor you and other potential thought criminals and no longer care if you whine.
This Message Brought to you by the
Office of Homeland Security,
"Making Today a Better Place Tomorrow!"
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
I'm leaving.
Liberty in your lifetime
Sure, I'm agitated by the short-sighted legislation sucking away our rights, our myopic foreign policies, go-it-yourself tactics as a nation, etc... But, you know what? My actual life is unchanged. No one I knew died in the terrorist attacks. The lesser freedoms haven't had an inkling of impact on what I do. I don't feel any more safe (the security changes are pointless). I don't feel any less safe either, though. I don't even feel more patriotic. It's just the same. Maybe I'm lucky?
BRB, John Ashcroft is at my door with a one-way ticket to Camp X-Ray...
The Triangle Mac Users Group meetings are held at the EPA building here in Durham. ~50(?) Mac geeks toting around laptops talking in a small conference room with a projector. No big deal.
Now, in order to get into the visitors area of EPA building where the "theatre" is, we have to fill out visitor cards with our name, address, phone number, etc. Then we have to fill out a check-in sheet with the guard (with our name, address, phone number, etc).. This isn't too bad, but a bit unusual for 50 people having to fill in to talk about their hobby.
The clincher is we've got a 3rd peice of paperwork to fill out now: Our laptop information. Brand, Model, Serial Number, Name, Address, Phone number, etc. Of course, no one has their serial numbers memorized, so it's time to bust out the laptop bags.
I can somewhat understand since it's in a "government" building - but this is a bit overboard for a hobbyist group meeting. It's worse than going to the airport - picture 50 geeks in line to fill out 3 peices of paperwork, and only 1 of them brought a pen!
Enough ranting now I guess.. I'm gonna have to recommend we meet in McDonalds next time or something.
"Freedom of expression being oppressed! War on Terrorism to blame!"
My life is great. I haven't noticed a bit of difference. Nobody I've talked to has ever complained about any freedom of speech problems. I completely forget that its an issue until I visit yahoo.com only to see its one of the for "major" news stories of the day.
I seems 9/11 has only changed journalist's fears.
In The Netherlands, we 'feel' the direct threat of the US: your congress has signed an act that they preserve the right to *invade* the netherlands in the event any American will be brought before the new international court of justice over here in the Hague. A bit laughable and a side show, but it exemplifies the attitude of Bush et al, unleashed by 9/11: insulting the world in every way they can. Silly.
When do the american people regain their ability to think for themselves? Bin Laden is still having a field day.
I would love to but most/all of them are selective in which rights they support. A
While I had a job I gave several hundred dollars to the EFF and I planed to give about $500.00 to in October but that money went to 9/11.
Nothing in my day to day routine has changed. I get up, go to work, come home, whatever. But my perceptions have changed, just like most people in the States. I am more aware of external criticism, of U.S. bashing, of the hundreds of billions of dollars we send abroad in aid to other countries, and our soldiers that serve (and die) as peace keepers.
::shrug:: So what, worse has happened :: I wonder if worse has happened to them. Has worse happened in their country? Or perhaps their country has been one of those that perpetrated worse things in the past. Either way.
I am also aware that these two things don't add up. People don't want the US to be the worlds policeman, but they bitch when we aren't (or not where they want us). People make remarks like "The US created the Al Qaeda because of their policies" while their countries are sucking at the US teat.
Then, after 9/11, when the US tries to find a way to reign in public infrastructures that are being used against it to murder our citizens, I hear international outrage. I hear about those poor International citizens in the Al Qaeda army being held in Guantanamo Bay not having trials yet. They are not being treated according to US principles. No chit, they aren't US citizens! They are combatants from a foreign Army.
9/11 wasn't a tragedy, it was an atrocity. It was murder on a grand scale. When I hear people take the tone of
I will keep a close eye on personal freedoms guaranteed by the constitution, and complain out loud when I think they cross the line. Hey, the US Government is simply trying to defend the lives of it's citizens, which is what its responsibility.
I don't feel that the US should act as a maverick, nor do I think they will. Tomorrow (September 11, 2002) will be a day where I remember 3,000 souls murdered in a senseless act of cowardice that not a single one of them personally asked for. When I weigh, at this point in an on-going process of evaluation, my personal freedoms of today versus a year ago, I would say that I am comfortable with where I am at.
No, post 9/11 actions and policies haven't affected my daily routine. But my eyes sure have been opened.
Here's an example of how law enforcement is using the USA Patriot Act: A few months ago, the FBI obtained my significant other's name, address and bank information from his ISP then specifically instructed the ISP not to inform him, in violation of its own privacy policy. This would not have been possible before the USA Patriot Act. This information led to a search of our apartment and the seizing of our computers (which have not been returned even though it is two months past the return date specificed in the warrant). Why? Well, the investigation has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with terrorism, cyber or otherwise. The USA Patriot Act was invoked because the MPAA filed a complaint with the FBI for alleged copyright violations.
I'm SO glad this law is being used for its intended purposes. People who have no problems giving up their civil liberties in the name of "homeland security" are sadly mistaken if they think law enforcement has either the ability or desire to restrain themselves from misusing/abusing their new powers.
From the article:
Foreign power? What's that supposed to mean? If in the course of my research in European history, I e-mail someone at the Bibliothèque nationale in Paris (certainly an agent of a foreign power -- the French Republic!), I am a criminal? When will people wake up and realize that human civilization doesn't end at the U.S. borders . . .
God forbid that I studied mediaeval Islam and wanted to correspond with experts on the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad!
In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
i don't fly anymore, because i will not cooperate
with the systematic destruction of constitutionally
protected human rights.
i also encrypt almost all of my email now, since
it is much more likely to be snooped.
finally, i'm planning on leaving the country at
the end of the year.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
I can no longer mail anthrax. This has effectively killed off one of my favorite pranks.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
In May, I travelled to Honolulu for a conference. I flew directly from Auckland to Honolulu. At Auckland, on the way out, I had to go through two sets of metal detectors and x-rays, as well as a search of my carry-on luggage (although that may have been because I was carrying a plastic poster roll). When I flew from Honolulu back to Auckland, there was just a single metal detector and a single x-ray, and no-one searched my poster roll, which I was still carrying. In short, the security for international flights in New Zealand was much better than in Hawaii.
For an Arab in the Middle East, some aspects of the internet have become frustrating. My credit card no longer receives the smooth transaction process pre-9/11. Half of all the purchases I tried to make through paypal, 2checkout, amazon, and several other vendors have been cancelled due to a "high fraud risk" because my credit card is from Saudi Arabia.
Last month, I tried e-mailing a friend who goes by the name of Jamal Bin-Laden (not related at all to the terrorists, he's not even Saudi Arabian). He replied not to MY e-mail but to a forwarded e-mail from my Bahraini ISP. Apparently they blocked the e-mail because of his name, read the contents, and when they saw I was only asking him to bring back some tiny M&M's from London (I'm addicted!) they forwarded it to him without even bothering to cover their tracks. There goes online privacy for you.
And on a related note, I had to cancel my post-grad plans to study in New York after all my Arab friends there came back. Let's just say people weren't very nice to them.
While this might have nothing to do with American legislation, it's somewhat ironic to see how 9/11 effected everyone negatively, Americans & Terr^H^H^H^HArabs alike.
May the victims of 9/11, the starved to death children of Iraq, and online rights all rest in peace.
now, let me preface by saying that i'm not usually prone to nutty conspiracy theories and such.
having said that: how come the pentagon (y'know, the *other* 9/11 target) has not been so much as mentioned in any mainstream news media since, oh, about a year ago? i can't even remember how many people had been killed there.
don't you find that a bit strange?
someone tell me i'm insane (and then tell me why).
Now the editors are posting on the wrong date! 9/11 is *TOMORROW*, guys! How can it be 'post 9/11' when it's only '9/10' ? Sheesh!
And for anybody using non-US syntax, that would be November 9th, which REALLY hasn't happened yet. Get it straight!
Any spoon would be too big.
And it just took me 30 minutes to post this because it kept saying "you can't post to this page" which the FAQ explains as: "You're reading Slashdot from behind a web proxy that allows connections from any host. This functionality has been abused. Therefore, comments are not allowed to be posted from this address until the proxy is better secured."
It might have nothing to do with my proxy being in an Arab country, but it was working fine the last time I tried to post here (before 9/11).
See what I mean?
"because of the perceived loss in privacy and online rights as a result of post-9/11 legislation."
First, it is not "perceived" it is real. Second, the only change (IMHO) in the last year is that the government is less covert in their limitation of our freedoms and that the average citizen accepts it in the name of "security." (See this
story)
What happened on the 9th November?
Or do you mean the 11th September?
I hope every airline (except for maybe SouthWest) goes bankrupt, and then we can start the airline industry all over.
I am a mulatto west indian-american. I kinda look Middle Eastern or Pakistanian. I have been stopped everytime. Apparently I fit a profile on how my tickets were bought also, online.
One question. Why the fuck is everyone feeling fine 'cause spot checking is instituted in this non random fashion that I always get checked? I mean what the fuck. Now it's no longer driving while black but flying while brown? CHECKING THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER ISN'T SECURE!!! And it makes people feel like shit.
Thank you Bush, thank you America, for making your own citizens feel unwelcome. jackasses..
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
Typical Slashdot. Anti-American statements, more about how Bush and company are evil, yadda yadda. This s a perfect illustration of what's wrong with this country. The politically/intellectual elite DO NOT represent the vast majority of Americans, by which I call "Middle America". That's why the leftist media's attempt to portray Bush as a moron didn't stick, the average man doesn't see anything wrong with another average guy running the show.
;).
"Our rights are being stepped on" Like how? Specifically, not "They Government has the option to hold you indefinitely without a lawyer"..those are hypotheticals that come into play very goddamn rarely in the real world. Has any Slashdotter been held because of some tripe they posted, or a shirt they've worn or an organization they've supported? I doubt that.
This country will do whatever it takes to ensure that another September 11th doesn't happen, and as someone who has a profound love for his country, I see nothing wrong with that. It's so easy to forget that THREE THOUSAND AMERICANS died last year...that's several times the amount of dead at Pearl Harbor..and unlike December 7th 1941, these were civilians. People who had sinned no worse than to go to work paid with their lives...and I see nothing wrong with our Government trying to protect us from that ever happening again.
But on the other hand, this kind of thing is expected from the Slashdot audience. Most of us are young adults (less than 35's young, kids), myself included. So of course there's going to be the liberal touchy-feely element at hand, it's something that has to be worked out..and will be, once most of us get older (me? I'm special
Just keep in mind that these precautions, while an inconvenience, is part of what's keeping LA, Chicago, NYC, Miami, Atlanta, etc from being turned into vapor by a suitcase nuke (or some other horrible, horrible possibility). And if you complain about your bags getting checked or some little kid being searched or whatever..bear in mind that if an American city is wiped from the face of the Earth....it'll be a lot worse than it is now...for us (a little), but way more so for the rest of the world.
So yeah...to sum up all this ranting...anything that'll help prevent another September 11th/save American lives I'm all for. And I'm suprised most of you arn't, but not really.
--Reverend Raven
Desperate days demand dire deeds.
... is whether we see a post from "Wakko Warner" ever again...
Since I'm not some upstanding citizen like a ex-Congressman, or a Medal of Honor awardee, or a mother with child, or some other "commendable" member of society I don't want to wait 6 hours to get on a plane and be selected for a cavity search because my zipper is setting off the metal detector.
Oh wait, all those "commendable" people were harrassed too...maybe I don't want to fly because the "security measures" are worse now than before 9/11/01. But I do feel safer knowing that someone else is being bored reading my email too.
Funny how my measly and tossed away vote for Nader kept Al Gore out of office. Funny to think in a stae with three whole E.C. votes that has always voted about 80% Republican that I'm at fault because Jeb Bush and the Supreme Court gave the election to GW.
Pull your head out of your ass, pal.
I voted for the candidate that I actually liked an drespected. Not for the lesser of two evils. I suggest you do the same, or just shut the fuck up, yourself.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
I wander why on the hell the US administration think unarmed fighter crafts and AA bateries are usefull at all?
;)
They must think that they can spook a terror attack with some cardboard missiles...
Ha! the diferences between perceived security and true security... well... they have it there...
Never heard of thrustworty computing?
ROFL...
P.S.- The trust of american people in the administrations, be them central of state amazes me... but alas... i'm a european
The car is the way to go. Another recommendation: Books on tape. I got a CD of William Gibson reading "Neuromancer"- it never gets old. The miles just fly by even when you are only going 65...
Now if only I can find a way to drive the wife and I to Ireland next summer...
oh and P.S.- I work in the air traffic control industry.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I haven't heard the latest, but the last I heard one of the Math professors here at Iowa State was not allowed back into the country thanks to Mr. Ashcroft.
Dr. Maria Axenovich went to Germany this summer to visit her husband's parents. She and her husband took seperate flights back. He (a German physisist) was let back into the country. She (a Russian graph theorist) was refused entry. Apparently she had been flagged as a security threat because she had done some consulting for a few biologists on campus on how to organize their data. Thus, foriegn Math professors who colaberate with Biologists are now bio-terrorists. If they visit the in-laws they are not allowed back into the country.
Her lawyer asked to see the law stating that she had done anything wrong. Apparently it is secret, and they don't publish it. Sounds like the same b.s. that happened to Erdos during the cold war. Hopefully they get everything straightened out, and Congress starts prosecuting Ashcroft for abuse of power.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
I've traveled by plane a few times and fortunately I'm not particularly attractive so the security guards haven't felt a need to select me for a random groping. So, though the baggage scanning is noticebly more thorough, no big difference there.
As for my personal life outside of airports, I haven't been effected at all to my knowledge. Of course, for all i know the FBI has been gathering evidence on me, and I'll be held as an illegal combatant.
Oh wait, that won't happen to me. I'm white...
I think most of the reason people are okay with the idiocy our government has unleashed post 9/11 is that they assume that none of it will effect them personally and so it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that most immigrant communities are more loyal to this country than those of us who were native born. Why? Because they appreciate the difference that little things like a constitution, due process and opportunities make because they didn't grow up with those guarantees.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I don't think that the problem is that they are being abused yet nessesarilly, but rather that these laws have the ability to be abused. Laws that can be abused shouldn't be created for that reason alone...they can be abused. So they haven't been abused yet, does that mean we should just stop caring, or should we constantly be vigilant (hm...hope this doesn't sound vigilante) for when it is being abused.
I went through airline security recently and it is a joke. And absolute joke. I've concluded that it's just a placebo to make most ignorant people feel better. Why? Well here are a few things.
When I was bringing my bag on the airline, I was checked 3 times. Getting onto every flight and my connecting flights. Somehow I triggered a "possible terrorist" flag and had people hand check my luggage. Maybe it was my scruffy beard?
Anyways when they checked my carry on luggage they ran it through an Xray. They made me take my trekking poles out to see what they were (they are poles for hiking). They didn't care about the pot that showed up as a big grey cylinder in the middle of my pack.
For my carry on luggage I had a camera lens in a 1Liter drink cooler. It was in there because it's soft to keep it from getting damaged. They never opened it up. I can think of all kinds of stuff to put in there... They never once checked the carry on bag itself. Couldn't something be hidden in the liner of the bag?
Coming back I had to have my checkon bag checked again, but this airport didn't have any xray machines. They had to hand check everything. I gave the guy my bag, he opened it up and saw a backpack filled with stuff. He asked me "Is this all hiking gear?". I said yes and he just zipped it up and put it on the belt to go into the plane. Luckily that backpack has 75liters of gear in it and not explosives. I was thinking on the whole flight back:
"Sir is this all camping gear in this backpack?"
"No it's approximately 75Liters of C4."
"Hmmm let me check my manual here... explosives, dynamite, C4. Sorry sir but you can't bring C4 on the plane. You must be an Al Queda terrorist?"
"Why yes I am, I guess you caught me. Take me in."
If a terrorist wants to bring something on the plane, it's going to get on the plane. The people who setup these security checkpoints are either:
A. Ignorant.
B. Setting up a Placebo
C. Making a boost in their political career.
D. All of the above.
You choose.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Its not a very good use of my brother's time or energy to sit in a bunker in the desert watching for "disturbances" or whatnot, when he could be here Guarding our country (which is the purpose of the National Guard I am guessing.)
Here in Hawai'i we have, maybe I should say had, a tradition of waiting in the airport with loved ones. Giving them leis and other send offs. Surrounding the one who is about to leave with with all the people they know. We even would wait at the terminal for their arrival to welcome them home. After 9/11 that all changed. We're not allowed to wait with them in the terminal. The best we can do is drop them off right outside the security gates and watch them walk off into the distance. It makes the scene terribly depressing. I know this seems minor. However, this is a change in our lifestyle. Our current president asked his country not to fear and to "keep on doing what you normally would do in your daily lives". Well, this was one of those things.
I recently moved from Michigan to Indiana and instead of presenting my previous state drivers license + 1 piece of other id (ss card) to transfer my license to a new state, now I have to provide 1. Birth Certificate (note, the STATE REGISTERED birth cert, not the hospital birth cert (previously, it didn't matter)), 2. Social Security Card (Mandatory), 3. Two pieces of ID proving place of residence (phonebill, electricity bill), 4. My previous Drivers License, 5. Two OTHER pieces of misc ID (passport, more proof of residence, whatever...) http://www.in.gov/bmv/driverlicense/idreq.html All in all, I can purchase semi-automatic weapons and their conversion kits to full automatic with less ID than it takes to transfer a state drivers license. And if you have ever been to the License Bureau in Indiana, the three day waiting period to get the guns is shorter than waiting in line at the BMV.
I think we'd all enjoy a nice cold beverage. -David Letterman
For me 9/11 has caused me to become more aware of what is happening in the rest of the world. More importantly how our government is involved in what is happening abroad and who is informing me about this. I think today there are many americans educating themselves with such matters. We are learning that things are not as simple as we thought, Conflict resolution in the middle east is not something that can happen just because clinton wanted good PR. Hopefully 9/11 will remove the vale of apathy that obscured our decision making and in the least, leave no room for regret.
Now I think you're just being paranoid ;-)
I realize that september 11th was a truly horrible event that negatively affected just about every aspect of life as we know it. Things like the weakening of the economy, the continued increase of ineffective security measures that take away our fundamental rights, the never ending fear of other attacks, etc.
But is anyone else sick of the daily updates that we are flooded with EVERY single day? I think the breaking point for me was last years super bowl, where they had a 30 minute pre-game special where celebrities and star athletes read off the declaration of independance, along with very other post 9/11 "get the country all patriotic again" messages and what not. I was very much changed by the events of 9/11 at first. But the more I get bombarded with news from every paper, every news channel, and even just conversations with people, the more i try to block myself from all of it. For me, it is essentially like spam mail. Even though i like the mail i get, weeding through all the shit makes the whole experience suck. In terms of 9/11, my patriotic feelings and pride for my country surely waned once i started realizing that the news stations and papers just re-hashed everything as much as possible, just to grab eyeballs. TV channels have been fighting for the past 2 months, trying to beat each other to the punch for the 1 year anniversary specials, by broadcasting them well ahead of that date.
I will remember 9/11 forever in my head, but my pride in my country in getting over such a horrible tragedy will be somewhat jaded by the medias attempt to milk it for all it's worth.
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
I used to send back "stuff" in the credit card companies pre-paid return envelopes...
You know, left over pizza, cinnamon rolls, dead batteries, etc.
I cut it out after 9/11.
I haven't flown in a few years, so I don't know how much flying has changed.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
When people are scared, they make stupid decisions. How many people sat down after 9/11 and thought, "Gee, I guess this kind of thing was bound to happen sometime, and nothing we could have done would have stopped it."
Not many, I assure you.
The rest of the bozos just cowered in their homes (in view of the TV of course), and asked their respective governmental leaders to save them from the foreigners. Of course, does it matter that the US is a country of foreigners? No. Who cares about the melting pot anymore, someone knocked down a building!
I have yet to be convinced that any of the "patriotic" legislation of the past year has done the good it promised. As long as people continue to live in fear, we will continue to have laws that reflect this.
"If you trade freedom for security, you have neither"
How true, how true.
can we please lock up the christians too? ... and while we are at it, anyone of any religious denomination ... then we might finally have some peace ... sure, there might not be many people left, but at least those left wont be trying to kill each other because we believe our own version of an ancient myth to be the truth. FFS, wake up.
(and turn your headlights off too, it just makes it harder to tell if you are braking or not)
One thing I've done (that I'm kind of scared I've crossed the line) is put bad stuff on my address lines 2 and 3 for my domains.
For instance, on my main domain address line 2 and 3 are something like:
WARNING: DO NOT DELIVER
THIS MAIL MAY CONTAIN A DEADLY VIRUS
So now when register.com sends me fraudulent letters trying to trick me into switching my domains to them, this is theoretically printed on the envelopes.
I'm wondering who would take the fall if someone threw a stink over this? Me for putting it on my address or them for sending the mail?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
It's increased the amount of time I spend reading Slashdot every day as the stories mount.
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
When googling for the word "Palestinian" I came across a text ad which read:
Rebuild Palestinian HomesYou can oppose the Occupation
by helping us to rebuild homes
www.rebuildinghomes.org
My reaction was to click... and then instantly to reconsider. The phrase "oppose the occupation" was slightly charged, and related to a cause that those in power in the US seems to have a strong opinion about. What if there were a carnivore-like system between me and the link? What would my government assume about me? This all happened in an instant, but the fact of the matter is these thoughts should never have to enter my mind. Upon looking at my instant of hesitation, I knew that we're starting down a slippery slope.
Error: PANTS NOT FOUND. Press <F1> to continue.
Read my comment here and let me know if I can get in trouble:
Other comment
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Case in point.
I was on an Amtrak train to Washington, DC. I walked down the corridor, down the steps, onto the train. I hung out in my chair, and when I was asked for my ticket, I said, 'I'd like to buy one please.' We were already well on our way, and I'd bought tickets before on the train, not a big deal, there's like a three dollar surcharge or something.
Nope.
I was informed that I needed to get off of the train in Wilmington, purchase a ticket, and wait for the NEXT train to come by. This made me kinda late, and extremely irritated.
I asked why I had to get off of the train.
I was told that company policy had changed in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, I had to present photo ID, buy a ticket, and get on the train, I'm not allowed on the train without a ticket.
I was already on the train. It was already moving. It was already about 30 miles out of Philadelphia. Let me make this point very clear. I WAS ALREADY ON THE TRAIN.
I said to the guy, 'I'm already on the train. It's already moving.' He said I still needed to get off the train at the next stop, buy a ticket, and wait for the next train.
I looked him square in the face and said, "Let's say I was a suicidal bomber or a terrorist, and I wanted to kill people or blow up the train. I could do it if I wanted to, because I am ALREADY ON THE TRAIN."
"We don't like to hear things like that, sir."
Sigh.
I was already on the train. It was already moving. I sure hope everyone on that train felt safe.
Emmett
I won't go to airports for any reason, the "security" goons are out of hand. I'm confused as to how more gun control will prevent terrorist attacks... shouldn't we be arming civilians? And the Office of the Defense of der Vaterland has me totally bewildered... the color codes are too stupid to be real. A red flag means we're on to them, and the terrorists should lie low. A green flag means we're not expecting anything, so the terrorists can do whatever the hell they want and they'll surprise us. And where does one go to see the colored flags? How do I know what today's color code is if nobody flies the damned flags? Or is that a secret so the terrorists won't know if we're watching for them or not?
The so-called "security" procedures have put me completely off commercial aviation unless there is absolutely no other option available to make the trip.
While Al Gore and other prominent political and social figures have been repeatedly pulled aside for multiple searches, 1 inch long nail clippers and 3 inch plastic doll rifles are confiscated, loaded handguns, fake grenades, and lunatics who have been flagged at EVERY airport they've used in the last year get on planes with no problem.
I fly for a living but I feel more threatened by the knee-jerk reactionary measures put in place than I ever have from enemy fire. No joke.
Write your congressmen and governor and tell them that the random and senseless harassment at the airports needs to stop. Search EVERYONE, and let people keep their pens, plastic knives, toy doll guns, and nail clippers. NOBODY is going to EVER hijack another plane with a knife, the crew and passengers will guarantee that. So lets stop harassing people and stealing harmless items.
There are other harassing techniques going on as well. An airline pilot was required to drink from a small flask in his personal baggage before he was allowed to board. As the liquid was alcohol he was transporting home, his choice was to pour out a harmless drink or drink it and cancel the flight... Are we now afraid the pilots will resort to liquid chemicals to hijack their own planes? The madness needs to stop, and only the voices of the passengers to their political leaders will make the difference.
Fuck Dub-ya.
I'll tell you how it has affected me. Georgie boy down there in the White House made a decision that will haunt his entire presidency. If anyone else catches on, he'll be on the hot seat for showing one thing and doing another.
A small backstory: Everyone remembers the images of President Bush standing at Ground Zero with that Firefighter, right? Pictures of it are everywhere on the 'Net. And how many Firefighters did we lose that day in New York? Over 300. 300+!!! Statistically, a little over 100 Firefighters die each year in the entire nation. What New York, and what the Firefighting Brotherhood around the world, lost that day is three times the annual national average. On the date that matches their call to action (911, duh), hundreds answered that call for the last time, giving the ultimate sacrifice in order to uphold their primary duty: To Save A Life.
And Bush? He denies funding to Fire Departments.
That's right. The very people who lost so many, the people he stood side by side with at Ground Zero in the days following the attacks. He is now denying them funds, be it for department use or to assist the families of those brothers we lost.
I come from a small volunteer department. We don't have the money that professional departments or alot of other volunteer companies have. Our newest piece of apparatus is over 20 years old. Yet they serve perfectly with minimal problems. In short, we barely get by. We don't have the money to provide our members the proper training we need to do our jobs correctly and safely. We do not have the gear to give to active members, reducing the number of hands available on-scene. We have to fundraise our asses off just to break even.
There must be literally thousands of other companies, both professional and volunteer, that are in the same boat.
And Bush denies us funding. Shame on you, Dub-ya. You should be impeached for denying America the resources (their own money, no less) to do what it has to do to keep itself safe, healthy and alive. Bad form.
I know it isn't "nerd" news, but damnit, this nerd has a duty he is compelled to do, because very few others choose to do. To save the life of someone else, be they family, friend or complete stranger, is the greatest calling in the entire human race.
And to fuck that up is Un-American, and more importantly, inhuman...
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
I flew to my new home (with a stop off to a police department at the destination to pick up my new car) six days before the attack, and I'm just glad i didn't wait another week. I would hate to have missed my appointment to get the car and delay my move... but frankly, the terrorists won. They win more every day as more of these stupid laws get passed. Paste the obligatory franklin or jefferson quote here. You all have it memorized by now i'm sure anyway.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
A friend of mine's fellow student had applied for and received a scholarship to spend one year at a US University. Because he is of Iran origin (but has lived in Germany all his life) and has a name similar to one of the terrorist's names, his visa application was turned down without discussion. So much for his scholarship.
McCarthy, et al.
I believe the quote I'm looking for is "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
While Sen. McCarthy had good intentions -- protecting America from the Communists -- stomping on the Constitutional Rights of Citizens in the process is not an acceptable method.
One does not toss aside the Constitution simply because it gets in your way.
Yes, Communism was a real and dangerous threat. So, in his way, was Sen. McCarthy and the House UnAmericans Activities Committee. They both violated the rights that they fought so hard to protect.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I got my license last july. But since I live near Seattle, I was unable to fly for months because the class B airspace over the area was extended to the ground and required instrument clearance.
I havent flown as Pilot in Command since.
I did however cross the country with my brother who is a commercial pilot, and we both got lots of flak by airport security for just being around the planes (our own plane!) by the FAA security guards. It is quite unpleasant to have to explain to every block-headed idiot in a uniform that yes, that is my plane, yes, I am a pilot yada yada yada.
In order to get a pre-flight briefing, you are required to listen to a statement about suspicious people and terrorism. Its is stupid and inane and a real grind to listen to day in and day out.
When planning our flights, we have to pay special attention to TFRs (temporary flight restrictions) or we can lose our licenses. There are several in the Seattle area which have never been lifted since Sept 11; visual flight rules cannot fly into these areas. This is a total joke since the terrorists planes were jumbo jets flying instrument rules, and those are still allowed everywhere.
And how did the good Senator (not Congressman as I so erroniously reported earlier) stomp on the Constitution? Violation of the First Admendment? They had the right to freely express themselves, which they did openly. However, when that expression presents a clear and present danger to the continued prosperity of the United States as both the body politic and the people, actions such as McCarthy's were totally justified.
--Reverend Raven
Desperate days demand dire deeds.
Post-9/11 legislation has not effected me at all.
For all the sound and fury (as illustrated in that AP article) the current laws are really nothing the US hasn't been through before in other times of war. Any law can be abused or misused by those in power, but we seldom hear about the far more frequent times when they're used to good effect.
Obviously we have to watch very carefully for abuse or overzealous enforcement, but it's counterproductive and simpleminded to automatically assume that the people who are sworn to protect you are all evil fascist pigs out to lock you up because you post mean things about GWB on Slashdot.
In other words, I'm not happy that these measures are necessary, but I'd rather trust the FBI with expanded survelliance powers than trust that a madman with a bomb or a live culture of smallpox will play fair and only plot their actions where the FBI is allowed to listen in.
I suppose that I was somewhat concerned with what last September 11th (btw, I HATE the phrase "Nine-Eleven") meant to the country for a while. It affected many people's lives, some companies, and a portion of a very large city, for sure. But, does buildings getting knocked down in a city that I've never even been to REALLY affect me? No. Maybe I'm just callous, but I didn't know anybody that died. I don't watch Dateline or MSNBC or Fox News and "relate" to the people that do. I'm getting really annoyed by the fact that TV and print news is saturated with FUD and constant updates. I don't watch very much news now.
Also, I don't believe people that say "we will never forget". Does anybody really care about Pearl Harbor anymore? Exactly. Get over it, people. The country isn't getting better because of this renewed "patriotism", it is getting worse. Stop the candlelight vigils and do something meaningful!
Violence and militancy are no exclusively Muslim. Look at the Christians in Northern Ireland. Nothing divides us into hostile groups of us and them more than religion. All the atrocities in human history have been committed in the name of a god or religion. Religion is poison. Everyone should listen to "Imagine" by John Lennon, and think about what he was trying to say with that song.
How ya like dat?
I crossed the border alot this summer. No more then usual. But this summer was different. After Sept. 11th the border was stocked with armed guards. They were supposed to be trained in searching through things. One of them opened my bag and removed my $300CDN Minidisc player and tried to pull it open. He ripped the face off and put it back into the bag. I was compensated for it, but I think thats just some hurtin practices. On the plus side, I ate a bag of chips and found a $20 dollar bill inside *Score*
Impeachment wasn't about sex. Impeachment was about lying under oath about sex. Ignorance is something alright...
--Reverend Raven
Desperate days demand dire deeds.
9/11, has it affected my day to day life?, Hmm, I have to think about that but i dont belive so. In fact I think that many governments are overreacting to the scale of this. look at rowanda, thousands of men women and children died each day, but did you see people saying "oh thats soo pre rowanda" no, you dont What you instead see are the americans (I'm canadian) standing around looking shocked simplybecause ONE person blew up their "we are invincible mentality" Why do we dont see in the papers daily pleas for help from all the starving children in africa? I really think that 9/11 has affected me and the other 98% of the world diddly squat.
Tragek
Saddened because we blatantly refuse to accept any responsibility for the attacks...
Saddened because we were not nearly as 'patriotic' after the Oklahoma City bombing - one of own did that, right??Saddened because our civil rights are being thrown away for a thin veil of 'security' when anyone can tell you that you are not any safer today that you were a year ago.... It is just as easy today to buy weapons of mass destruction, hijack a plane, buy forged documents, illegally enter the country... nothing has changed except for your lack of freedom..
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
I have to sit through hours of patriotic programming on every channel instead of watching my normally scheduled programs.
Have you gone to CNN, ABC News, NYTimes, etc lately? Apparently, there is no other news. I'm bored of 9/11. I read all there is to read in the year since it happened. Thank you, drive through.
Are you asking how this has affected us in our daily lives besides:
The truth is, I am not really afraid of terrorists. I would certainly have a better chance of getting struck by lightning or winning the lottery and probably a better chance of experiencing both in the same day. I am afraid of government, though.
The US government has been keeping records since the Social Security system was put in place. Everybody in the US has a primary key. IBM designed a similar system for the Nazis, and look what they did with it. What has IBM been designing for the US government since the 1930's? I am sure I do not want to know.
When I was a child, I was taught that only people under oppressive socialist/communist regimes had to worry about their government spying on them. Now it seems, everybody has to worry. The entire industrialized world is now spying on its citizens, and these governments are looking to broaden their surveillance and information sharing.
The government and the news media (the real terrorists) have drastically over estimated the threats posed by terrorists. As a result, the economy is in a slump. Jobs everywhere are scarce, and Linux has been directly affected by that ;)(ie. software projects canned by corporations, etc.)
So, are you asking besides all that how this has affected me? Hmmm... Well, I have felt threatened since that day. A close relative of mine was fingerprinted at work (which means that she is now a criminal so far as the government is concerned, see above). I have postponed (indefinitely?) travelling to the US. I suppose I could also say that I have experienced a true witch hunt, just like the ones they told me about in school.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
...why in the hell you can still bring lighters on a plane! Well I'll tell you why...it's because fuckwad dumbya let himself get bent over by the tobacco lobby! His devotion to our safety is underwealming! Yeah, like he really gives a shit!
Personally, I'd like to go back to the old way where you could bring nail clippers and plastic rifles for GI Joe figurines, but that would be asking the Americans to embrace logic and hell will freeze sooner than that!
You're using her as bait, Master!
Canada has its share of problems. Not the same problems as the US, but they do plenty of things to their people that a truely free socity would not do.
Some of the things are different, so I cannot make a judgement of which country is worse, but for me, nice as the country is, their problems are worse than ours. (too bad, they got some beatiful girls up there who have made the opposite decision)
I just looked through this entire thread, and the worst thing anyone could come up with is longer searches at customs. So who's being hysterical here? Not /. posters, no sir, definitely not them...
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
WTF is this country coming to?
I think we all realise that this guy is basically wrong. Religious and racial tolerance are the best practise. Buttonholing the many for the wrongs of the few is a misguided approach. If you follow it, it will be to your detriment, and you will fall behind. Not to mention the hypocrisy. (something tells me I can't spell that word - it just look ... wrong somehow).
-T
http://melbournephilosophy.com/
Actually, not all of them did openly. Several refused to answer the pertinent question "Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?"
Still, anyone labeled a "Communist" was blacklisted. Pressure was exerted on filmmakers, studios and others and those so labeled frequently never worked again. Careers were destroyed, not on proof of criminal activity, but on expression of political belief. Political speech was supressed and persecuted.
I'm not talking "the advocation of the violent overthrow of the Government and Constitution", but expressions of sympathy or even simple ambivalence.
"...when that expression presents a clear and present danger to the continued prosperity of the United States as both the body politic and the people, actions such as McCarthy's were totally justified."
Where in the Constitution does it say that? Until Congress declares War -- which didn't happen then and hasn't now -- or you are a convicted felon, the rights of Citizens are not set aside for convenience.
The Government of the United States is stronger than that. Unlike China, the U.S.S.R. and others, we tolerate dissent and are not threatened by it.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
The biggest problem for me is that about once a week I go to a rehearsal that is in a building in downtown Boston that's close to the Hancock building. For those not familiar with it, this is one of the tallest buildings in Boston. For the past year, barriers have blocked all the parking spaces for the blocks around the Hancock, and the result is an even more serious parking shortage than usual in the area. It's a good deal for the commercial parking lots, though.
Cute story: I couple of months back, I was walking past the Hancock, close to a small group of people who were obviously from out of town. One woman asked why all the barriers were in the street. A man replied "They're to keep people from flying planes into the building." Without missing a beat, another guy said "Looks like it worked!"
The Onion isn't the only gang to manage to find humor in the situation.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
While I can't blame legislation for the changes I have gone through, I can blame rumors and paranoia. At work, all non-office people have to pass through metal detectors, and be frisked, and wanded if the detector goes off. This was allegedly for "more security, but really, they are assuming that everyone but "the suits" is a thief. At work, they tell us every day how us lousy drones are lucky to have a job. The desk jockeys seem to think any chimp could replace those of us who actually work for a living. My wife was treated in very cruel fashion at the Social Security Administration by security for bringing in her purse. The sign that said "no packages" did not imply tat a lady's purse would be considered a package She needed to get a social security card with her married name on it. That security pig got off on rifling through her belongings, and accusing her of being illiterate, bringing in a "package." Since that day, every security guard thinks he's a real cop, and every real cop thinks he's god almighty. Last October, kids weren't allowed to have any Halloween because of absurd rumors about poisoned candy. It made me sad not to have trick or treaters coming to see my cool haunted front porch. They had loved it in 2000. Now not a day goes by that I don't here that absurd rumor about poisoned Coke or Pepsi told to me by a stranger, co-worker or relative who actually believes it. Since that day, we have been living in a state of siege, and America has been the land of the fearful, running scared. Freedom has been just another marketing buzzword. All the jingoism and flag waving that people call "patriotism" does not console my grief for the over 3000 dead, the kids who weren't allowed to have any Halloween, or the simple liberties we have lost. These things rub salt in my wounds. Far too much of the joy in life has been taken from us all. The terrorists have successfully terrorized us, and continue to. I could go on forever about how rumors, paranoia, crass attempts to make money off of our grief, and false patriotism have upset me, but that would be just too much to read. I think I will leave the idiot box turned off tomorrow.
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
Sorry you've been scared so much, but as a solution, I highly recommend trying to grow a spine!
Sorry, my sarcasm detector exploded.
I get into Penn Station, and there are National Guardsmen scattered here and there. Walking to work, I pass souvenir stores with "FDNY" shirts and WTC postcards prominently displayed. Lots of people on the streets are wearing "FDNY" and "NYPD" clothing too. I pass by the bronze fireman statue on 44th (I think) and 8th, which is now no longer on a flatbed and has been permanently installed. A few more blocks up, and I pass the local fire station. Much of the stuff that's been sent to them from all over the country can be seen whenever the large doors are open. On the outside of the building as well. I get to work. "Can I see your ID, please?" Work like normal. During lunch, the Fox News channel blares paranoia. More work. Decide to hit the comic book store tonight-- they've got the new books in a day early this week due to "nine-eleven". Penn Station, more national guardsmen. Get home, feeling sick of this whole thing.
Oh yeah, and tiny little American flags are everywhere.
One thing I like to do: take the downtown E train. The cars still say "World Trade Center" as a destination. The conductors even announce it as a stop. Makes things feel a bit more sane, in a strange way.
I'm going in to work tomorrow, but I'm dreading it. I want it to be a normal day, which it should be, but I already know it won't be.
A couple of weeks ago, a man was arrested for taking pictures of police cars in Philadelphia. You can read about it here.
When I was in highschool 12+ years ago, I had a history teacher that went along as a chaperone on a school-sponsored trip to East Germany and the USSR. He relayed a story about one of the students on the trip starting to photograph a police officer and getting in a lot of trouble because of being perceived as a spy.
We thought that was shocking, then, that a country could be so totalitarian as to prevent photographs of police officers.
I'm in comp security. Every day the sky is falling and I couldn't be happier.
I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.
Yawn.
Fox News is a balanced alternative to the left-wing media you named (CNN, ABC, NYT).
Sure, Bill O'Reilly is doing his show perched on the edge of the Ground Zero pit, but he is talking about other things of importance.
Just flew into San Francisco this afterneoon and got searched *four* times. Now, there is nothing stange about that, becuase I flew one-way and had a lot of connections (got searched at each connection). The strange thing is this: I make a really spicy Habenero sauce, and just for fun, I carry it in a sealed medical waste bag complete with the biohazard flowers and multiple warnings not to open it. Didn't faze the inspectors one bit... Now my sewing kit, on the other hand, that instantly got them into a tizzy and it had to be thrown away.
So, in case you were unclear on the concept of safety in America:
Tiny sewing scissors with a blade capable of possibly cutting paper in about three-four tries - DANGEROUS
Mysterious biohazard bag containing unidentified red goo - NO PROBLEM
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Political speech, short of advocating the violent overthrow of the government, has never been considered "treasonous" by any court in the U.S.
Belonging to the Communist Party was a way of saying you were dissatisfied with the then current system. It was also, in some circles, fashionable. However, the vast majority of the members were "marching and chowder" members -- all talk, no action and there for the free drinks and wings. Hardly treasonous.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
The most major change for me was that I could not get through an airport without being searched relatively thoroughly around 4 times apiece. I invariably, over 8 different airports, was singled out. The only reason for this so-called random selection (odds around 1:40000) that I could see was my longish hair and choice of wearing a beard. In other words, I somehow meet the profile of a terrorist.
... Oh S@$!T!!!!!!!
However, the good news is that I happen to live near a free country (Canada), and have considered many times to see whether I can part Lake Erie to lead as many of my people as will come to safety.
In all honesty, I expected the Patriot Act sort of thing to happen soon after Bush's coup. 9/11 was for me, as soon as I had determined the extent of what had happened, the excuse to create a police state. For all I know, the president might know the exact location of bin Laden, or even be cooperating with him a la Attack of the Clones.
And don't worry, I expect to be arrested for saying
I am officially gone from
Why the heck was this modded flamebait? I was serious with each of these points!
You forfeit your citizenship when you take up arms against the US. I, for one, am quite glad that Abdullah al-Muhajir is in a military brig with all access to his terrorist friends denied.
If he committed treason, put him on fucking trial for that. Until he's convicted in a court of law, he is not a criminal. Innocent until proven guilty, damnit.
And you know what, I don't give a fuck if it means that some guy who wants to blow up some buildings is walking around on the streets if the alternative is to debase everything that this country is founded on.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
If you don't mind, I'd like to say that's a terrible reason to leave a public discussion forum. If you have a dissenting opinion, it's all the more important to announce regardless of moderation.
:) ). Don't be so concerned with whether or not people agree with you. If it's truly sound and well reasoned you'll eventually find that like-minded company you appear to be looking for.
Not that I necessarily agree with you, I'm just saying that regardless of where you go, no matter how 'open-minded', there will be leanings of some majority one way or the other. Fuck it, people are still reading what you're preaching (assuming at least some people browse at 0/-1
Well I live in the UK and despite YEARS of bombings and killings by terrorists, because something happned to america we now have to carry our student ID cards with us at all times not just to exams, and are geting flashy new all in one thingies soon too, though I think it's all a lil pointless no taliban would ever attack my uni since a quick headcount of the class shows that most of us are Muslim anyway.
I walked into a Sears after 9/11, and saw a patriotic set of underwear being shown proudly there. There were usa-flag boxer shorts, etc, and the big kicker of them all, a USA-flag thong.
What hath the terrorists brought us?
I took two weeks vacation from Colorado to Indiana, Ohio and Virginia. Had very few problems except in Virginia when I got stopped for tinted windows. I got a ticket for tint and non-compliant headlamps (to US DOT specs). The trooper who happened to pass by me thought I was suspicious and decided to stop me. My vehicle was searched. Not much to find except tools, laptop computer, mountain bike and clothing.
That fishing expedition cost me several hundred dollars in fines even after dealing with VA County Attornies who insisted on paying up or else.
Kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm VFR only and not much has changed for me. Granted, I do live in the middle of the boondocks and the only towered fields nearby are 3 class D airports within a 40 mile radius, which I never have reason to fly to, except one occasionally. I pretty much mostly only fly to uncontrolled fields. I've flown my little Cherokee almost 200 hours in the past year, mostly just for fun, but also for a few long cross country trips, so yeah, I've certainly done more than my part to help out general aviation.
It wasted a total of 1 second of my life scrolling past pointless stories about the subject on Slashdot.
That's about it...
I have no problem with not being listened to..but when my thoughts and comments are censored (like they were on Everything2) solely because they didn't grok with the admins..yeah, I'm not going to waste my time providing them with content just to be slapped down for providing factual, documented evidence while others who post little more than flames are elevated to god like status.
--Reverend Raven
Desperate days demand dire deeds.
Here's an odd effect of legislation passed in response to the Sept 11 tragdy: the price of my camp fuel has skyrocketed. It has suddenly been reclassified as an explosive (camping gaz??? I mean.... C'MON!!) and the shipping costs are now about twice what the fuel itself used to cost. Time for me to find some back-packing alternatives..
At least in my area, books are being removed from libraries and bookstores, you cant speak freely about many subjects without fear of being detained or investigated ( hey its legal now for them to do that )..
Or metal detctors in many public buildings, searches at public arenas..
Denial of law abiding and licenced citizens to protect themselves in these pubic areas...
Welcome to the f-ing USSA...
Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves about now at what we are allowing to happen in the 'name of security'..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
No further comment required.
Evil is the money of root.
Of course, once you arrive, there are the usual announcements about "Please refrain from smoking until after you've left the state of California", but that's a separate problem
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Out of 612 messages by whiners, ACLU fanatics, AC's, young punks who enjoy there freedom too much, some rational people, and a bunch of...well, assholes. Let me be the first to say that IT HASN'T AFFECTED ME AT ALL. Oh, wait. I had to wait in line an extra 90 minutes at EWR last month. I'm going out on a short limb here (b/c I know the answer): If you were magically warped back to 1941 and lived in NYC durning the mandatory blackouts and air raid drills, you fucks would be the ones who refused to turn out your lights b/c it's your freedom to keep your lights on? It's a damn shame it couldn't happen b/c sometimes I'd just like to see the bombs dropped on ya'll. Darwinism at it finest.
We study the past to predict the future. Things will return to normal. Stop your bitching.
Does anyone know if the illuminati myth can be found anywhere outside (and predating) the Illuminatus and Schrodinger's cat trilogy's?
When I lived in Germany in the 90s, I flew quite often inside of Europe (where security has always been tighter) and also to Japan and the US. I always carried a Swiss army knife, but they never confiscated it. One time, they made me take out a different larger knife, but instead of confiscating it, they put it in a special bag and checked it in as luggage.
In the last year, here in the US, I've had my nail clippers confiscated as well (I accidentally left them in my bag) costing me a couple of bucks for a replacement. Not to mention the few occasions when they took everything out of my bag and patted me down as if I were some criminal.
>There are more people willing to kill you just for being born where you born
Wrong. There are people willing to kill us, not because we were born where we were born, but because of the offensive nature of our culture and stupid foreign affairs policies our government has. They hate us for a reason. Without understanding that reason, there will be no solution, just more needless violence.
---
Open Source Shirts
When a magazine offer came in saying "Free Subscription" I would accept the offer, then mail the "cancel" request taped to a postage-free postcard.
Since Peter didn't seem to know Paul, the suggestion to cancel didn't take so awful quickly.
Don't even get me started on how I'd use two modems to pester Rush Limbaugh's 800 lines to saturate them every 10 seconds...
db
Cig:
ôô
My uncle finally got cancer after smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day for 25 years. He had thyroid cancer, which is one or more tumors located near your thyroid gland (in your neck). This was discovered shortly after his mild stroke. He ended up getting a tracheotomy (they punch a hole in your throat and you breathe through a tube) after the surgery, and had what he calls a "nuclear drink".
While down in the states, he lost his traech (the tube that sits in the hole), and didn't notice until they crossed the border on the way into Canada. He and his wife decided to go back to the U.S. to find it. While driving around late at night, retracing their steps, a cruiser pulled up and armed guards jumped out of the car. They rifled through my uncle's truck, throwing things out, and finally stopped at the window so my uncle could explain he had cancer and was taking a "nuclear" drink. The troopers were carrying some kind of geiger counter that had picked up his medication. They let them go.
On the way back to Canada (for the second time), they were about to drive away from the booth when an armed officer comes rushing out out of the customs office screaming, "stop that car!" The fallout from the medication had set off the sensors in the customs building. They had a bit of explaining to do.
So yeah, if you have anything that even remotely decays (some home appliances, like smoke detectors, may even have traces of radioactive elements), be prepared to be seized and searched.
Only in America would we have personal liberties taken away under the guise of fighting the war on terror, or am I wrong? Surely, I am. Video game ban in Greece, anyone? There are other countries that pull this shit. America is not alone. Anyone that's reading this from Canada, a European Union country, or any other nation, really, thinking that your shit doesn't stink, wake up.
But here's the real question: Why? What incentives are there for the leaders in OUR government to take away personal liberties? Do they get more money? Do they feel safer? Do they feel as if they're "doing something" instead of standing around "ignoring" an issue? It really boggles my mind. If someone can answer any of these questions for me, you'd earn my utmost respect.
The thing that really blows my mind is how we have so many new laws as result of the attacks on 9/11. I don't feel any more secure due to them. So why were they enacted? I certainly don't feel any safer knowing that murder is a serious crime if I'm walking around alone at night in a seedy part of a town I've never visited before. And I don't feel any safer knowing airline passengers can't carry toe clippers onto 747s.
There are two things I have learned from these attacks. Not only have I firmly cemented my anti-racist core, but furthermore, I have found, for lack of better words, that I am a "Logic Elitist." What's this, you ask? I have a strong hatred for those who can't backup their reasoning with sound, logical conclusions and reasoning. I hate stupid people.
We shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. -PJ O'Rourke
I have not been affected one bit.
...and I don't live in NYC.
Of which are you more afraid: of what you say in public or of death from above while you're just minding your own business?
If you chose the former, you probably don't live in NYC.
Let me put it this way: If I choose the latter, I may as well be dead. I would be sacrificing one of the fundamental rights that this country was founded on: the pursuit of happiness. I absolutely refuse to live a day of my life where I am paranoid about dying from sunrise to sunset. No terrorist will make me fear my life. They cannot take that away from me.
My problem is when my own country tries to take the same principle away from me when that is the foundation of the country. A country that tears itself apart so that others may not have the pleasure of doing so is no country at all.
Im 43 years old, my Dad is 75, the only people who have passed laws in the US limiting my freedoms are do-gooder liberals that have no made it crime to speak and think what you will (hate crimes, and they only apply to white people) my property rights - they can take from me at will and build a parking lot on it in the name of "community"- they can also tell me what i may or may not build on it, grow on it , etc.
They decide what moral lessons my children will learn (not anymore though, they are in private schools)they decide who I MUST commune with, they destroy property values by condeming property and building "low income housing" on it, then moving a bunch of free loaders in.
They have passed laws effectively removing the natural right to protect my home and property by declaring it a no loss situation because i have insurance. They tax me at ten times the rate of other people simply because I'm smart enough to know how to make money. they'll tax me when Im dead on money they taxed while I was alive so they can "even out' the balance between me and some moron who won't get out of bed in the morning, oh yeah, love those democrats of the farmer/labor party -
Hell, it is no ILLEGAL to pick up a rock in a National Park, and the list goes on and on forever. But if your a poor victim "of the state" we'll let you out of Jail early and then you can go and rape/murder another child somewhere.
Yes, I was surprised when I saw that it was modded to Funny, because I was being downright serious. Anyway...
I think the best speech you can give fits the same guidelines. Be serious, though with a humorous overtone. Remember, though...Slashdot has always been about free speech, because America is suppose to be founded on the same principles. Rosa Parks wasn't upholding the "American rights of the 1950's" when she got on that bus. She redefined them. Don't be afraid to do the same thing.
Your a godamn fool, it was clinton and his left wing politics that could have locked bin laden up twice and didnt - he was too concerned with gettin his rocks off to be bothered with that.
You dont even see that 1984 is all about whats going on in the public schools in this country, they are progressively dumbing them down - go visit a private school and be amazed at the difference in education - those kids actually still have to read and get tested on the Constitution. Do you really think it's an accident that the top schools in this country are private ? it wasn't always so, but it is now.
All your being taught is how to pull the ballot for Democrats, period. THe sad thing is, now the republicans are into the same give away politics, take from the "MAN" and give it to you, 30 years we still could see that for what it was "vote for me and Ill set you free" dude, they have legislated away your right to think, Im not a racist, but any one used to have the right to say anything they wanted- except for the "fire" in a crowded theater test, all else was allowed, even saying "fu*k you" to a cop - which actually went to the SUpreme court, not anymore, thanks to do-gooder liberals, that's now considered "hate speech" ALL SPEECH IS PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION- unless your a liberal, then you must control it.
AND that, oung man, was what the book 1984 was all about, dumb the masses down so they cannot think critically anymore, reduce their vocabulary and reduce their ability to think, and control their speech, make it "politically/culturally" incorect" to speak your mind, and thus control your thoughts.
Anyone who wants to turn a nail clipper into a weapon is going to do it before they get on the plane. And just because airport security is lax enough to allow one kind of weapon through is no excuse for laxity about other weapons.
I'm not selling anyone's freedom. I'm not arguing that U.S. airline security is good. I'm not fooled or lulled into a false sense of security by anything that's going on at U.S. airports. Airport security here is still nowhere near what it should be. (See the post directly below about El Al.)
I am, however, arguing for the freedom to fly without threat from terrorism. I have absolutely no sympathy for the original poster who whined about his dad's nail clipper. Are you people so pampered, so isolated from mainstream American reality, that you equate a ban on a small cosmetic tool as a threat to the republic?
If you are willing to die so you can carry a nail clipper onto an airplane, you're foolish beyond belief.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
This doesn't mean that the military or police can't shoot you to protect the public if you're in the process of shooting people or waving around nuclear weapons, but it's illegal for them to do so except in clear and present danger, and if they can arrest you without killing you, you still have the right to a speedy and public trial with full due process, with none of the kind of Star Chamber secret trials or military kangaroo courts that helped motivate our predecessors to throw out the King. If you're a US soldier or actively in the Militia during a war, they may be able to give you a trial that's speedier and more public than you'd like before shooting you, and it might be argued that if you're planning the terrorist attack, there's a war or public danger even though the rest of the military doesn't know about it yet. But if you're a civilian, that still doesn't apply to you.
There's some ambiguity about whether being a citizen of one state makes you a citizen of all of them, which the 13th Amendment tries to address, and there was an amendment that may or may not have been ratified in 1819 that would revoke citizenship from people who accept foreign titles or (without permission) foreign government employment, and there are some civil rights you can lose as a penalty for some crimes (or until 1870, by being a slave or politically incorrect color), and the 14th Amendment distinguishes between privileges of citizenship, which can be abridged as a punishment for crimes, and equal protection of law, which applies to everybody within the states' jurisdiction.
There's an Ask Yahoo question asking if anyone's been tried for treason in the US. It gives a rather incomplete answer - details about Aaron Burr and John Brown, and also about a German-American who was imprisoned for treason in 1947 for non-violently helping his son, a Nazi spy who was executed. There's been lots of other press about the topic of treason since Johnny Walker Lindh got caught. Aaron Burr was acquitted; Tokyo Rose was convicted and jailed, later pardoned by President Ford.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
This was moderated Funny for some reason. I don't find it funny at all, just depressingly true and insightful. :-/
I don't know, he has a point. After all, have you ever read the koran? Mohammad was a raving lunatic from the get-go. In a single breath he would say how the Muslim would find a friend in the Christians, then he would go on to explain how a good Muslim should then "Kill all the infedel whenever you can."
Read a bit of it first, then tell me how peaceful and loving the muslim faith is. After all, islam doesn't mean peace, as was explained by several muslim clerics shortly after September 11th, 2001. It actually means "Submission" and a Muslim is "One who submits."
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Having said all that, I do know that these wackos are in the minority in most of the countries they come from. I've had many Saudi and Bahraini friends who had no animosity for the USA. But they still preferred their own country and lives over our own.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I can honestly say that I haven't seen any (direct, observable) effect on my day-to-day life. I suspect that the vast majority of Americans would probably say the same, and this is what worries me the most. We are rushing to sacrifice the rights and freedoms of OTHERS for OUR "safety". This is why poll after poll shows Americans willing to sacrifice their rights and freedoms, because they beleive it won't affect them, only someone else. Why don't people realize how quickly they can become the "someone else"?
Ignorance is the root of all evil.
No, but I hear it is full of rather Draconian stuff. I've always been of the opinion that whatever you take to extremes will be bad, never mind the underlying religion. But I'll agree on a personal level that I think that the Muslim culture seems to foster an extremist attitude more than most others. I'm not saying I approve of the approach, but I think that the correct response is to try to foster peace, rather than us it as an excuse for violence of our own. Down with the other guys! Hooray for us! Yaaay! -BM
http://melbournephilosophy.com/
They'll just be killing each other
off for other reasons...
Considered harmful.
Few points.
1. Have you read the Old Testament? There's plenty of God-approved violence and atrocities there.
2. Have you read the New Testament? Does Jesus sound at all like Jerry Falwell?
Considered harmful.
I live within 15 minutes walking to the pentagon and work in D.C. Overall, there hasn't been alot which has affected me overtly and in a major way, but there is alot which remains visibly changed.
...?
After 9/11, we did have HumVees on every corner 24/7 for a few months. The soldiers seemed to be alert, but were ok to talk to. It is just beyond me what benefit they actually were, unless there would have been a land assult on the white house...
The trashcans and all other recepticles were taken out of the D.C. metro stations after 9/11. They are still gone. There seem to be more announcements reminding riders to take personal belongings when exiting.
For awhile normal citizens were unable to go nearer than a few blocks of the white house. For some reason that really angered me. It just felt really insulting. On the other hand, I didn't make a fuss, there was just this feeling that if one did, one would get in big trouble.
Some buildings in the area (D.C.) which used to allow people on the roof no longer do.
For awhile, all the buses which loaded at the Pentagon were switched to Pentagon City. Pentagon City isn't set up for so many buses, though, so that situation ended pretty quickly. I recently switched at the Pentagon, they now have earth dams between the bus area and the Pentagon. (I never switched at Pentagon before, so I don't know if these dams were there before, but the grass on them is new).
There are signs at the Pentagon which prohibit taking pictures. This actually strikes me as funny - of what value are external pictures for terrorism
The road beside the Pentagon, route 110?, does have HumVees and cars on it. The HumVees have machine guns pointed at the road. Funny to me again, is that they all have flashing blue lights, though. I guess their purpose is to be very visible.
Oh - and our local Pakistani restaurant (quite good) immeadiately after 9/11 got red, white, and blue takeout boxes.
On the other hand, I have had to walk home from work after the metro stopped twice since 9/11. My route goes right by the Pentagon, right next to the reconstruction area. I passed there in the wee hours of the morning - but both times, I really think no one paid any attention.
Overall, alot of changes, some minor, some not so minor, alot meaningless but still 1984ish.
Damn, I even had mod points today, unfortunately I posted in this topic before I saw the above post.
I hate it when people do this but "mod parent up"
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
Anal? Don't bring your radar detector to Canada ... they are illegal in all parts of the country. People in my family have gotten stopped multiple times by cops because we have an air ionizer device that looks a lot like a radar detector. And here's another: those anti-photo-radar plates for your license plate are illegal. (You can sell them but you can't use them.) And they do have tint-level laws in some areas where the cops have devices to quantatatively measure your tint.
On the upside, it is supposely still legal to run a red light in Canada if you are carrying mail for the Queen. (Maybe I should write a letter to the Queen and keep it in the glove box ...)
I have been to VA (before 9/11) but the cops did not hassle us in our tinted Mazda Mini-Van.
Searching for nail clippers? Give me a break.
Before 9/11, we knew that the World Trade Center had a bullseye on it. For years we've known that airliners are targets. We had even heard speculation that terrorists would someday attempt a 9/11 style attack.
Why were the cockpit doors open? If the airlines had taken security the least bit seriously, they could have taken a few pages from the security manual at El Al and 9/11 would not have happened. IMO, the airlines were negligent and are responsible for all losses suffered that day.
"Don't you dare try to bring nail clippers onboard, even though just 1 year ago *we* were stupid enough to give terrorists access to the controls of a 100-ton guided missile."
Why haven't I heard criticizm of the airlines in the mass media? All I hear is how *they* are losing money because of the ordeal. Congress is bailing them out. Where's the outrage? The media aren't talking, probably because airlines buy lots of ads.
... don't forget This Modern World, a pithy look at our modern-day politics delivered fresh to your screen evry Monday.
That is all.
Why do we REALLY care about 9/11? Is it because we've all been brainwashed?
...
Let me simply ask this question? What would make 80% of the general population give up their Civil Liberties, spend houndreds of thousand of millions of dollars, and start a National Holiday?
One would think that something that kills 340,000 to 450,000 people a year would justify such actions. What kills that many people a year? Tobacco does. Not an airplane. Or take Alcohol for example. Just drinking down some old' Budweisers and more kills 150,000 people a year. Listen folks, this is PER YEAR! Sorry, but we are the terrorists here. We condone such activities.
Isn't it a bit odd that all of a sudden the Police can stop anyone at anytime with or without reason to search them? What happens if you refuse? You get arrested, harrased and jailed! Why refuse? In the Constitution of the United States it cleary defines that the population not be searched for unreasonable reasons. I don't find walking down the street late at night a good reason to stop anyone.
Why does 80% of America find it to be reasonable? They have been brained washed by various sources, including television. Heck, most of the United States ACTUALLY BELIEVES what they hear and see on TV Newscasts.
Personally, I watch the TV News for pure entertainment. Most of the time the reality behind the situation is so far off that it makes me actually get sick to my stomach and vomit. You ask "How does he dare to say that?" That is pretty simply, "I get off my arse and check the stories out. I talk with people from both sides of the issues, get their versions. Sometimes it takes a little bit of leg work to get the truth." And that truth is what I need to make my decisions on, not some make-believe Newscast or falsified newspaper article from the Toledo Blade.
You see, the news usually takes all the facts they can find, twists them up to fit local and federal needs. They rarely actually talk about the REAL version of the truth. One hundered thousand people die each year from using the perscription drugs that the government gives to us. What? My facts are talking about what people willingly do to themselves? Might I not be mistaken, but didn't 3,000 some odd people willingly start working for the government and willing work in a gigantic building (duh! Easy terrorist target. Sometimes it's the little things like SIZE that kill us).
Common sense would tell them that this could result in their deaths. Terrorist minds would select a target that it could easily take out and cause the most damage. Heck, they teach you in school that at any moment you might die. It's a fact of life.
Just like the facts clearly show that Caffeine kills 1,000 to 10,000+ people each year. And this is something that we can forsee and prevent, but we don't. What I am saying here is that the Government is trying to take our rights away to give them more control over us, not for our personal safety, but for making money. It is a very sad thing that 3,000 people had to die, but what about the other 670,000 people I mentioned? Why don't we even THINK about them? I wonder
Don't let me even get started on Car Accidents. How the hell are you going to jump into a big peace of steal, go 60 MPH, and then when you crash, call it an accident??? It's a possibility that should be taken in account for before you drive. You'll probably die. One third of the USA population dies in car accidents each year. You will probably die in one before you die from natural causes, or from some terrorists from overseas. How can you even compare 9/11 to this? Why would you sanely support the 9/11 Holiday but let car crashes to continue to happen? I can tell you, you've been programmed since birth.
Fact. The USA has never been to WAR over something that didn't make us money. We have never went to WAR for a GOOD CAUSE. This whole 9/11 thing has just been a TOOL the government has used to scare us into submission.
And, we are scared! Long ago, if someone were to come into your house and try to murder your family, you could defend yourself with a gun and it would be over. Long ago if a terrorist came into your house with a gun trying to kill your family and you shot him everything would be fine.
Did you know that in the State of Ohio, killing someone in self defense will result in you serving jailtime. (hint: If you have to shoot someone, shoot them below the waste. This will make it less of a crime, and you will not go to jail as long for saving your family.)
Now a days our children aren't educated on guns. We hide them from them. They look at them as something like a toy they can't have and want because they can't have. Back in the old days parents were responsible and taught their children about guns and their dangers. And there were a lot less killings. Today we are afraid, so afraid that we let our own Government take away our right to bare arms. The same thing the last Country did before will split and created our own.
Get this, if you get caught smoking marijuana (which has never, ever in history killed someone) you can never own a gun again. So it's okay to carry a gun and smoke Tobacco, that remember, kills 340,000 to 450,000 people a year. What lunacy!
Now how to solve this problem? Speak out, spread the word. 3,000 people in a building dead isn't that bad compared to this other stuff. Instead of spending $5.00 on a flag that does no good, spend $5.00 into cancer research, or laywer fees for groups trying to outlaw Tobacco.
You are waisting your time and money and becoming a slave if you don't change and speak out.
9/11 is not a national holdiay in my book. And I will protest it until the day I die.
[ brakken ]
"Remember, if it weren't for the USA and the USSR most of the world would be speaking either German or Japanese today. "
Instead, most of the world is speaking english, and corporations hire the death squads. Such an improvement on the imperial japanese system.
(*Cough* Exxon, Coca Cola, we're looking at you)
Get off your high horse. Your orignal comment had some merit, this is just whining about something you do not understand. Apparently you are using a web proxy, why I don't know, that is your bussiness. However, your proxy allows any person in the world to connect and use it, with no authentication. This is what is known as an "open proxy" and they are certianly not unique to the Arab world (most of the ones I find are in Asia as point of fact). These open proxies are very, very, very frequently abused by trolls, crackers, and other asshole out to cause trouble that wish to mask their identity. Hence Slashdot, and many other technically savvy sites, dissalow posting from them to prevent these people from abusing their sites. Most IRC servers will K-line (ban) you if you run one on your comptuer.
So no, they are not giving you trouble because you are Arab, they are giving you trouble because you are using an open proxy. It has nothing to do with 9/11, it's jsut new troll prevention that Slashdot implemented. Not everything that happened since 9/11 is related to it. I installed a firewall since then, has nothing to do with terrorists, just has to do with keeping crackers out of my comptuers.
Stop whining.
It's made me actually figure out, and start using, PGP. Before the recent spate of laws, I was quite content to rely on just being boring to preserve my privacy. But now with so much more money available for intrusive government tapping and much less regulation to stop them, I am being more proactive with guarding my private life.
In this small way, the terrorists have succeeded, I have less freedom and I trust my own government less.
Not just answers, the correct questions.
Great stuff. I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts!
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
9 september I was on holiday in Schotland, to get back to the Netherlands took me extra hours in flight. The whole trip should have been 1 hour. I was checked like I was a terrorist myself. Since then every time I want to take a plane I have to pay terrorism-tax. Do I feel safer? NO, because that money is not invested in anti-terrorism training and equipment. It is just an excuse for the airline to raise the ticket price. Since 9 september even the Dutch (the most sober people in the world) are being irratic. Suddenly we had radical moslims that wanted to take flight training. More and more Dutch people are more discriminating against moslims. I do not know where it will all end...
If they check everything, people complain that they checked everything. If they don't check everything, people say, "I could've been carrying *ANYTHING*!"
And you wonder why those security idiots still try so hard. It's because they have no coherent policy, and keep hearing mixed signals from people who have to go through these measures.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
You can find it here. One of the things mentioned is how America becomes devided about the measures taken after 9/11, and about their privacy.
I'm sorry to say it, but because of 9/11 I will not be visiting the US again any time soon. I recently went on a weekend camping trip with a busload of people from my church. At the boarder, we had to leave 5 people behind (after much hassle for the rest of us as well). 3 of these brought it on themselves by not having their ID. The other 2 were students from Korea. I was almost not allowed thru because I don't have a passport and my birth certificate was at my parents, 5 hours out of the way. With all the border hassle, there is no way we are doing that trip again.
----
All of whose base are belong to the what-now?
I suspect that you are confusing the probability of a piece of evidence given a hypothesis with the probability of said hypothesis given the evidence. These two numbers are, in general, not the same. In fact, they are often radically different. Alas, it is precisely this kind of mistaken reasoning which has lead to the attitude you display: "better search all those muslims, they might be terrorists!"
If our school system provided better education in the basic principles of statistical inference, perhaps these grim mistakes would occur with less frequency. Alas, for the time being, I expect the pseudodiagnostic nonsense to continue.
-Carter
You're a former penal colony. Who cares what the genocidal, racist country of Australia thinks? Take care of the aborigines before you dare to type a single criticism of the world's greatest country.
;- "The #1 threat to world peace in the world today". The USA is not loved. Get over it. It's tolerated, and only because everyones fucking scared of it. At the moment it's led by a psycopathic nutter who didn't get in on a popular vote, who has signed the death orders of hundreds of his fellow countryman and seems hell bent on Killing any country that disagrees with it. Actually dude I'll give you a hint;- most of the world is terrified of the US and believe the world is in big fucking danger, and that's not from terrorists, it's from the US.
Ok, let's get one thing straight. (1)Like america , Australia treats it's aboriginals like shit. I'm not proud of it, and I hope the fuck you aren't proud of your country ppreceeding over the genocide of the 200 nations. Secondly, FOR FUCK SAKE THE USA IS NOT THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. For instance many defence analysists have refered to the USA as , and I quote
If the USA's Middle East policies were the "cause" of 9-11, what is the cause of Islamic Terrorism in Kashmir, the former USSR, Malaysia, Indonesia, The Phillipines, Sudan, etc, etc, etc?
The problem is ISLAMIC TERRORISM, not the USA defending the Jews that have lived in the Middle East since before there was any such thing as Islam.
Whatever...... Just because theres overwhelming evidence that the US fucked up by installing Sadam Husain & the Taliban into power, it's OK, because USA #1 USA #1
Remember, if it weren't for the USA and the USSR most of the world would be speaking either German or Japanese today.
Oh yeah.. by the way I actually like americans, I just get wild when they put my country down and try to tell the world they are less then them. And I apologise to any americans out there, it's not really the best day for these sort of arguments, but a spades a spade, and I gotta call it.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
I'm not going to burn you for saying this, but I will ask you WHY you think you know it's true.
Think about that one carefully. Who told you, and who owns them?
In any case, the point remains: "So what if Iraq has nukes and chem warfare agents? --Iraq probably had nukes and chem warfare agents during the Gulf War, but it didn't use them because it knew that doing so would open itself up to nuclear and chemical reprival. Nothing has changed since then."
The whole, "they might get nukes" argument is just an excuse for U.S. empire building.
There was an article on the front cover of the Toronto Star today in which the Bush administration admitted that they didn't really care about weapons inspections being allowed into Iraq, and that what they really wanted was a 'regime change'. --Which means that Shrub's demand for "weapons inspections or else" was bullshit. It's all a damned puppet show, right from the airplanes to this stupid war.
Your damned president is a greedy war-monger; this has nothing to do with terrorists, and everything to do with oil and killing all the Jews. (You watch what happens when the Jews declare full-on open season on the Palastinians when the U.S. starts bombing Iraq!)
-Fantastic Lad
It seems even here around EU that they're using 9/11 as an excuse to alter something as far fetched as copyright laws.
And how do they do this? By claiming that money from production of pirated cd's and dvd's benefits international terrorism. That might be but I fail to see how true their claims can be that trading media files off the Internet can support terrorism...
I don't mind people selling pirated cd's to get a painful kick in the rear end, but the nice professional people seem to agree that importing audio/video media from outside Europe is also piracy, even if they're very legitimate products(region code breaking is evil etc.). And all forms of piracy, including this can support terrorism. I somehow have a hard time believing that importing a region 1 dvd to europe causes any financial gain to any terrorists. But hey, those politicians do this to protect us, let's not question them at such a difficult time.
Bottom line: whenever the lawmakers say "to fight terrorism", they can do pretty much anything, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the matter.
When is enough enough?
/. and see that the people who knew exactly what was going on did nothing but document the event in excruciatingly redundant detail.
Isn't it about time all us concerned citizens meeting anonymously over the internet actually [i]did[/i] something besides just talk?
Future civilizations who investigate the catastrophic slide of the US into despotism will be amazed when they come across sites like
I'm up for just about anything, but I would have no idea how to begin. Thoughts?
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Now I know that if someone will try to bring a hacksaw in San Francisco and cut the truss on the Golden Gate Bridge, he will be stopped at the airport when he will be flying to SFO!
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I'd rather the old way with a few common sense precautions like strong and locked cockpit doors as well as a coded deadman switch (living pilots enter a code every 15 minutes) and just take my chances!
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Ben Franklin (1759)
Restore America: Dr. Ron Paul for President!
Would you please explain to me why we should be thankful to a country who sat on their ass in two world wars until either they were attacked (Pearl Harbour, Dec 7 1941. 2 years after the war started) or some of their people were killed (Lusitania, May 1, 1915. 1 year after the war started) when my country was one of the first to go and fight.
In the second world war. Of a population of approx 7 million, 1 million men and women joined up and serve their country in the war. Can America claim a similar percentage?
Australia has never shirked from doing it's duty to help preserve world peace.
Australia has never attacked anyone... Can the same be said of America.
Australia has never used it's influence to topple a government to put a corrupt dictator on the seat of power, and then try and knock him off again after he takes the money and turns against you.
I really feel for the people who died in the towers and I honestly think that they would be ashamed of the US government for abusing their death's in a powerplay to try and gain a foothold in the Middle East oil fields. Which Middle East country will be the next one to harbour terrorists, Iran? Syria? Lebennon? Saudi Arabia where Bin Ladin comes from?
Or do we all have to start speaking with an American accent (to counter the german and japanese accents we would be speaking with now) because a corrupt small minded (man who is dominated by his father and the arms manufacturers and texas oil men who contributed to his campaign) wants to extend America's peace all over the world?
Australia didnt fight in two world wars to stop dictators and tyrants just to let another one push the buttons of the world. If there is an attack today on 9/11 or close around it. Look for the bush administration's hand in it. How to justify an attack on another country... lets set them up... Gee... Hitler did that with Poland and then with Russia, so it has been tried before and it failed... I have a lot of American friends who read this website. I hope that they are ashamed of what their government is doing to propagate war instead of peace.
And one last thing... If you had the strength of your convictions that your forefathers had, you would have posted your nick and email address up there so you could be flamed properly instead of hiding behind the Anonymous Coward tag like the gutless coward that you obviously are... I am properly going to be modded down to hell because of this and I will lose karma for it... But hey, learn a few things about the rest of the world before poking your useless head out of your shell again...
PAX
*** I had a
Read a bit of it first, then tell me how peaceful and loving the muslim faith is. After all, islam doesn't mean peace, as was explained by several muslim clerics shortly after September 11th, 2001. It actually means "Submission" and a Muslim is "One who submits."
What you left out was that it means 'One who submits to Allah' (My emphasis). Christianity embodies similar sentiments with respect to God.
As for the teachings of Mohammed being inconsistent, have you ever checked out the Bible? I seem to remember the Book of Exodus Chapter 20, Verse 13.
Thou shalt not kill.
Notice the lack of get-out clauses, weasel words, exemptions or hazy verbage. It couldn't be more clear if it were written on stone tablets - oh right it was.
Yet the rest of Exodus and a good chunk of the remainder of the Old Testament apends inordinate amounts of time relishing various divinely-inspired murders and laying down supposedly God-given rules on who should be killed and just how they should die.
Where is the consistency in the Bible?
Should I mention that it wasn't Islam that started the Crusades? Islam, Judaism and Christianity were all getting on perfectly well in the Middle East until the Christian West decided to intervene; the consequences of which we are still feeling today.
Best wishes,
Mike.
What happened on the 9th of November?
To do this would cost money that they weren't prepared to cough up.
So they levied a 7 UKP "security charge" on all flights, this money would then be used to beef up security and not etch into their precious profits.
Unfortunately, despite everyone coughing up this extra money people still managed to get on planes with bombs in their shoes and cannisters full of petrol.
Obviously they're using our money well.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Why? Well back when I was 20 I was in the Marines, and I was against the gulf war. I was pretty vocal about it (freedom of speech) and that got me a lot of flack from the military (that's clear). I got in a discussion with some other guys during lunch and they were telling me "we gotta kill S.H. because he violated this and this international law, yadda yadda". I told them if we were going to kill violaters of international law, we would have to start with Bush for Panama. Clearly a rhetorical argument.
Still, the Secret service was called, and I spent the night in a holding cell until my lawer came. I had to be photographed, psychoanalyzed, get a handwriting analyses, and had my background and family checked. But they had to let me go, becuase I was able to talk to a lawyer and he said "c'mon guys, it's obvious these charges are a bunch of shit". That happened a lot in those days, me getting arrested for a day and released without trial because the charges were just meaningless. They did this to hassle me and to keep me from expressing my opinion to people who might listen and change theirs. Noboddy, and I emphasize, Nobody, really thought I had threatened the presidents life. It was just a charade.
What's changed? Now they don't have to let me speak with my lawyer, and they can keep me indefinately. That has terrorized me!
The conflict in the north of Ireland is not one based on religion at all. The fact that one side of the conflict is predominantly catholic and those on the other predominantly protestant is because of historical reasons. It was not, nor ever had been, a fued based on religious reasons. Granted, some religious bigotry does enter into it at times but this is not the source of the conflict.
Then again, it *is* true that 'religion' has often been used as the basis for violence and discrimination. One particulary poignant example would be the Crusades during medeival times in Europe. These crusades are still seen as a reason for militancy among some Islamic extremists today.
--- Ralph the Wonder Llama lives!
... moderators are complex creatures (I think others have undone the misdeed).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I'm from a former communist country and this whole thing makes me unconfotable. Not the terrorist, but recognizing the methods the US goverment is using. They just point to a such a familiar direction. Although I believe they will never manage to reach anything near the shit we had here, they still have quite a lot of inertia and damage is getting bigger every day.
.snaciremA eht uoY
Remember, of all the emotions FEAR is the most difficult to get rid of.
Here is my own little experiance of this. Even a dosen years after the communism fell, I still get nervous when crossing a border to a neighbouring country. And now it only takes me showing about enough passports or IDs for all the passingers in my car to the border cop (they usually don't check them). This is a pure remnant from when I was a kid and had experienced border crossings in a tense atmosphere.
Guess who were the people in former communist counties made affraid of before being told to act patriotic and encouraged to spy on each other?
The situation is that one year after you have no more security and your rights are being eroded.
/. get it. Others, sadly, choose to be blind.
Journalists in the US and in Europe have shown that all the security measures are bull, racial profiling is stupid, Iraq hates Muslim fundamentalists and OBL was finance with CIA money, etc., etc. etc.
SO you are as likely as to be vaporized as before but you have lost freedom and a degree of dignity for not be willing to defend justice and democratic principles in the time they were tested.
Fortunatley most
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
What he said !
Now, while I truely hate to fuel a flame, I have a few issues with your comment.
First off, Bush never signed anyones death papers.
The people that signed these "Death orders" were Judges, who were acting on a conviction of CRIMINALS by a jury of their peers.
As I understand it, the way the death sentance is carried out in Texas is the governer is given a form a couple days before the sentance, with two choices:
A) Let em die.
B) Give them a pardon.
Dubba just decided to allways go with option A.
Also, theres a reason everyone is scared shitless of the good'ol US.
We have to keep all these crazy fuck nations in check, before they start WW3.
I dont see anyone else trying to keep these whack job nations from nuking each other, causing a chain reaction of "Hey, India nuked pakistan, Lets go nuke someone just for the hell of it."
The problem is, without the fear of someone totally fucking your day up if you decide to do something stupid, or pick on someone else, your just going to go ahead and do it.
In the context of international politics, such actions can and often will open a whole 'nother can of worms.
Theres reasons for everthing... Whats yours?
--Una
... ahhh forget it.
Somebody like you would not understand.
Please learn something from history, the "I am doing nothing wrong" is the most monumental piece of BS in the history of repression...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
9/11 continues to have no effect on my life whatsoever. Other than that my high school is planning a discussion in classrooms about it today for the anniversary, of which I will of course opt-out of. Soooo stupid it's not even funny.
I belong to the ______ generation.
What about the Orange marches? Or the terrible behaviour that could be seen around a Catholic *Infant School* recently! Whilst the conflict may have started over territory, religion was - and still is - used as the principal method of control and motivation in the warring factions.
To me, being patriotic means that you like your country's culture and landscape, and are proud of it. It does not mean you have to love that country's government.
It's easier to put into perspective if you consider the government to be just like any other company, one that just happens to direct the economy, defend the area from attacks, fix my roads and take my trash away. To me, it would feel strange to feel 'patriotic' towards a company instead of a country.
Well, I've used a few different 'companies' (governments), because over the course of my life, I've lived in 3 different countries. It's given me the perspective that my feelings for a particular country's culture and landscape have nothing to do with the group of people who manage that country.
A freind of mine said this and I am sure it has been said elsewhere, answer is "Weapons of Mass Education", everything else (such as tolerance) gradually falls in line.
For me, 9/11 changed one thing about my life's routines, and that's how long it takes me to get through the airport.
I think all those people who think the internet was a "casualty" should realize that very little has changed.
Actually, the Irish problem does have its roots (or some of them) in religious conflict. The Battle of the Boyne (1690), for instance, was fought over whether the English throne should be catholic or protestant.
You cannot explain the bizarre nature of Irish or English history without understanding that there has been catholic/protestant conflict in the British Isles since the time of Henry VIII.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
In the 80's every press article about drugs rose straight to the front page to give me the impression that I'm surrounded by drug dealers. In the 90's every press article about school violence rose straight to the front page to give me the impression that I'm surrounded by homicidal teenagers. There was a brief break in there somewhere where I was scared OJ was going to kill me. Now we're in the naughts or whatever the hell you want to call it, and every press article about terrorism rises straight to the front page to give me the impression that I'm surrounded by terrorists.
It's all crap. One incredibly shocking event later (9/11, colombine... what was the news maker in the drug war? probably stars dying from drugs or the violence in Columbia) and the press does a Gilligans Island bit and they go from a three hour story to a multi-year obsession with the same topic. If you want to see flocking behavior, don't watch the birds, watch the press. Canada and the US had about the same levels of drug use in the 80's, but it was first on the American list of problems and somewhere in the twenties for Canada. Why? The press. Or maybe the Canadians have some good sense.
The ironic thing is that if you're reading for content, reading to try to figure out major trends in the world, the press was more informative about terrorism before 9/11 than after. Before 9/11, genuinely important terrorism-related news was the only news that would make the papers. If you saw terrorism in the news, it was a big deal - the government had thwarted something major or there had been an embassy bombing. World changing stuff. Now, if it has a terrorism angle it's front page material - even if the angle is something like "a man who might be a terrorist might have been caught at the airport. he might have had a nail file. there might be more news at 11." By and large each terrorism story is space filler in a space that has a proverbial "reserved for terrorism related news, regardless of if there's news or not" stamp on it.
It's like wheat and chaff. When it comes to terrorism, the press prints both these days.
Oh, well. At least the fact that our civil liberties are being used like an inflatable sex toy is coming to light. And, who knows? Five years down the road, something else Really Bad will happen and the press will be obsessed with something else. We should have a betting pool on the next big press fad. Personally, I'm predicting it'll be mega-storms caused by climate change. Some kind of giant hurricaine will level a nation to the dirt, and the press will drop terrorism like yesterday's news - which it already is.
Maybe the state's highest function is to grind out insoluble problems. (Zelazny, Hall of Mirrors)
Now available in an easy-to-digest comic form:
http://www.stallman.org/images/cartoon-3f.jpg
That was one of the best news discussion shows around.
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
I would think that those people who are really, directly affected by the new legislation are in no position to talk about it. Incarcerated more than likely.
As somebody who lost friends in the world trade center bombings, let me tell you how my life has changed.
It now takes me an extra hour to get through Denver International Airport (DEN) then it used to. Security is still a joke.
It now takes me an extra half-hour to get through San Francisco International Airport (SFO). Security is still a joke.
It can now take up to two additional hours to get through Lambert(STL) in St. Louis. Security is still a joke.
I no longer watch the news. Not because I'm tired of September 11th stories, but because I'm tired all the sensationalism, fluff pieces, and "police today arrested a dark-skinned man walking down the street, news at 11:00" stupidity.
I lost another friend. I've grieved, you (especially all the people who have never been to New York, don't know anybody who knew anybody that had a friend who was killed in the attack, and never gave a shit before it became popular to be "anti-terrorist", don't need to do it for me, so SHUT UP ALREADY.
Dubya and company have managed to reduce or get rid of most of the Bill of Rights. I expect that will adjust itself after the next election.
Other then that, nothing has changed. I refuse to change my life just because some lunatics decided to try and violate the laws of physics.
Karma: Food Fight (Mostly affected by Date Plate).
Excuse me?
WWI, WWII? How much money did the United States make during those wars? They weren't for a good cause?
Riiiiiight...
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
Texas is the governer is given a form a couple days before the sentance
Actually, I believe that in Texas the governor only takes action when stepping in to stop an execution, otherwise it proceeds as scheduled.
The US financed Usama Bin Ladin and his organization Al-Qaeda, at times training them in US military bases, so that they would fight the Russians in the period when they were occupying Afghanistan.
This is not a conspiracy theory - it is an accepted fact. You don't have to trust me, better trust The Economist who said so in so many words some months ago. A simple search in their website should suffice to verify.
Live with it.
USA IS NOT THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD
Easy to spout that out, but then who is? If the US is not the best country (remember, most folks speak of the best country as far as opportunity for the common man, not global politics), then exactly which country do you think holds that claim? I do think the US is the greatest country to live in, and I challenge you to show me one that's better.
At the moment it's led by a psycopathic nutter who didn't get in on a popular vote
Big frickin deal. Clinton got less than 50% too. Everyone knows the rules of the electoral college, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that it's possible to win the election with fewer votes. I feel the national election should be by popular vote, but it's not, and I'm not gonna whine just because things didn't go my way.
seems hell bent on Killing any country that disagrees with it
God, I hate sensationalism.
Wrong. McCarthy was a bufoon, but the HCUA was congress' way of dealing with a real threat from communist infiltrations in government and in institutions. A lot of liberals decry things as McCarthyism, but I think the concept is sound. No one was detained, no one was beaten, no one was shot. The only bad thing that happened is a few people lost their careers. A damn sight less than the communists would have done were they in power.
Dawn of the Dead
Today is also the aniversary of the military coup in Chile that was backed by the US against a democraticly elected government
As I said in earlier posts. No one lost anything except maybe a career. And during that time this country was, as we found out, infiltrated by communist spies from the USSR. That was a real threat, not a 1st amendment problem, a high crime. I think the response to communist infiltration and indoctrination in US institutions was relatively mild, a few people lost their careers. They became a simple nameless worker, the way they wanted things to be. I am sorry. I don't see the problem here. You advocate a system which could take away your boss' stuff, you suffer the consequences, as those folks in the '50s did and should have I don't see the HUAC as being a bad thing then, and now ti could even help define where this nation should be in protecting its own interests.
Dawn of the Dead
Freedom and government deregulation is the same thing... you don't want the government telling you what to do but you have no problem having the government telling business owners what they can do? This is called hypocrisy and it's not surprising from the likes of you. Unless you don't care about any freedoms? At least you would be consistent then.
Big companies like Enron are only possible with support from the government. There was so much regulation and cooperation between the government and Enron that it is no example of what could happen under laissez-faire capitalism.
Whether laissez-faire capitalism naturally leads to monopolies is not a fact... in fact, we have never had laissez-faire capitalism anywhere in the world, so we really don't know for sure what would happen. I think that monopolies are not possible without government coercion... here are a few monopolies I can think of off the top of my head (note that some of them aren't really monopolies either):
There is always more than one source for everything. Even if you can't get the same thing from somebody else, you can get a substitute good. Freedom decentralizes power. Each person has as much or as little power over their own lives as they desire. Any power somebody else has over them is by their choice, not government coercion.
USA IS NOT THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD Easy to spout that out, but then who is? If the US is not the best country (remember, most folks speak of the best country as far as opportunity for the common man, not global politics), then exactly which country do you think holds that claim? I do think the US is the greatest country to live in, and I challenge you to show me one that's better.
Damn, I am so sick of these childish claims and allegations... THERE IS NO ONE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! Take Greece... Everyone who has ever vacationed there has had nice things to say about it... Yet recently they just outlawed video games. That is a little too socialist for me, thank you very much, but hey, that is just one more attribute of Greece that I must take into consideration when deciding whether I want to spend time there.
The USA, likewise, has many good and many bad points... Australia the same.
You sound like fools when you spout out opinions as fact. You might as well argue over the best movie of all time or the best color.
my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
I don't think you read my original post. Corporations can be just as corrupt and inefficient as the government, no doubt. But can they really be just as tyrannical without government support? The government can take as much money of mine as they like... if I don't give it to them, I go to jail. Microsoft can charge whatever they want for their software, but I don't have to pay them! Microsoft can't put me in jail for not giving them money (unless I have an illegal copy and they use the government to put me in jail, which is a whole other issue).
One thing is clear. The world has never seen laissez-faire capitalism. So, I don't see how you assume the result will be slavery, sweat shops, etc, etc. You can form unions without the governemnt, you know. Sure, most companies don't like it... but if you get enough members in your union the companies will have to accept you, without government coercion.
The closest thing the world has seen to true laissez-faire capitalism is the older US. Sure we had some sweat shops and other problems... but nobody even said it was perfect. We also saw these same problems in all developing industrial countries... even ones with much less freedom. For one thing, times were different back then. For another thing, the world was poorer and couldn't take the effort to care about some of these things.
But, the more successful a capitalist economy becomes, the better it gets for everybody. As companies and techniques become more and more efficient, people can work less hours for more money. In early industrialization, the men worked 12-hour days, and maybe the kids and wife worked. Today, most people can easily support a family by working 40 hours per week. Many people choose to spend more and then both people have to work, but their standard of living is way higher than anything we have ever seen before.
---- I messed up the link, but it appears as if it might not be an issue for much longer after all - so, bad example anyways...
my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
I used the term "lives" to mean lifestyle and culture. Having lived in the mideast for several years and in the US most of my life I can say that our "lives" are different. Though we have much in common, Saudi culture felt more alien to me than any other place I've been to in my life. Not better or worse, just different.
And like it or not, most terrorist organizations couldn't estist withour some form of government "assistance" wherever they are. So I do point a finger at Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, etc for harboring terrorist groups. I would also point a finger at the US if I was aware of a similar attitude of the government towards a terrorist group. Caveat: My defenition of terrorism basically rules out septratists groups. I'm talking about countries who fail to police their people from harming people in another country.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Many of the comments here describe how things have changed in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, but for the most part the changes have not affected the Internet. Although awareness of privacy concerns online is greater now than it was before, the online world has not changed much.
I live and work within a few miles of the WTC site. During that morning one year ago, I couldn't get in touch with my mother to let her know I was alright. The phone lines were overloaded; the cellular networks too were beyond capacity. I eventually did manage to get the word to her by IM'ing a friend who lived further away, and he was able to call her and pass the message.
Because I had a net connection (one that did not rely on a phone circuit, I suppose I must mention), I was able to keep in touch with loved ones with whom I otherwise would not have.
And something to keep in mind, is that not all American citizens approve of the way things are going, have gone, and currently exist.
It is hard to balance two opposing emotions within one's self. The shame of being a USA citizen due to policies of the government & the bigoted prejudiced attitudes of many of the citizens; while at the same time being proud of being a USA citizen because of average ordinary people who had a dream of improving their life, came here, and actually put in the back-breaking effort to achieve it.
I have moments when all I want to do is LEAVE. And then I look at other countries and they have their 'issues' as well. Different from ours in many cases. But I am forced to stop and think about the fact that there is no Utopia. And then my task is to see what I can do to create a little bit of positivity in my own small sphere of influence.
compassion. tolerance. peace. spending money not on nuclear weaponry- but on researching non-radioactive-waste-inducing energy sources. spending money not on Standing Armies, but redistributing the vast surplusses of food crops to areas of the world suffering through drought and famine. allowing the peoples of the world to find a harmony of co-existence with religious ideals that are at odds with the other.
Idealistic? yeah. I know. Don't be concerned for me though, I operate on a daily basis with a healthy dose of jaded cynicism. And I honestly do not see the USA making moves towards those directions for a loooong time to come.
Out of all this garbage that has happened since the initial WTC disaster- one thing has stood out in my mind. The former NYC Mayor Guiliani rocking the boat and making waves by telling America that the proper and right thing to do is to make the entire area into a Memorial- rather than "redeveloping it". In honoring the people who got caught up in the tides of politics and died unnecessarily.
ok. yeah, this probably isn't the best of days to be posting and ranting and such. I think I'll go water my flower that wilted, pet my cats, and do something low-stress.
While living in the states isn't bad at all my wife and I currently very much enjoy living in Germany.
My personal pet-peeve with the living quality in the states is the feeling of insecurity in some neighbourhoods. I very much enjoy feeling save here pretty much at any time at any place.
There are some things I miss though. My wife's and my favourite country is Canada. We think it just has the right blend between European and US culture. If it just wasn't so cold.
Don't know anything about New Zealand or Australia, but I was told that they also offer a very nice quality of living.
I don't think anybody is qualified to call some country the greatest of them all, what is your basis for your decision, have you lived in all the others?
DISCLAIMER: My wife is American I am German
...that I'm appalled at the unreasoning naivete of posters here who launch venomous diatribes because they can't take a two-inch nail clipper on board an airliner. Put it in your checked baggage, or buy one when you arrive. or trim your nails before you leave, for God's sake! Are your lives so bereft of any sense of adult civil responsibility that you see even the slightest inconvenience as a threat to all your freedoms?
Are you all so willfully isolated, so comfortable stewing in your self-imposed wanna-be geek alienation, that you are in denial, that you simply can accept the reality that there is a threat?
Are you so entrenched in your perpetual adolescence that you think freedom is only the satisfaction of your immediate individual desires? That if you can't have what you want, when you want it, that your freedom is being denied?
In other words, feel free to take chances with your freedom, just don't take chance with mine.
Rolling out citations of all the other ways people die is irrelevant and pointless. If we have the means to save lives, should we not do that? Or do you believe that the deaths of thousands on our highways justifies allowing others to die in terrorist attacks? The same logic would have us ignore cancer research because people die from heart attacks.
During World War II food, fuel and other consumables were rationed or not available at all. I can only imagine how some of you would react to not being able to put gas in your car!
Slashdot asked how 9/11 has affected us all. Well, for me, most of the responses posted here are convincing evidence that too many people equate freedom with fulfilling their own selfish interests, no matter the cost or danger to others. It's all about "me". Screw my social responsibilities.
Right?
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Name ONE attack by the US government against the US...
Dawn of the Dead
Well Spoken.
The initial poster had asked how 9/11 has affected us, and I was going to say "well, in my day-to-day life, not much at all actually. I still go to the store for groceries,etc". But then I stopped and considered the 4th of July weekend. On that weekend my 9 year old son & I, drove cross-country with my mother- helping her move to another state for a job. For our return trip, we flew.
What is the relevance? When I was 9-ish and flew for the first time, I got a nifty package of stuff, including one of those cheap plastic pins that is a set of 'wings'. What did my son get? Nada. The co-pilot of the small connecting flight into Denver did wish him well and hoped he would have a nice flight. But none of the airlines gives out the pins to kids for their first plane-flight. it is no longer "the custom". Being only 9 and really really excited to be flying in a big plane quickly overcame his disappointment in not getting the pin. My husband, however, the previous year (prior to 9/11 by merely a month or two) was able to procure a pin to bring home for our son. So you tell me, do they think terrorists are going to seize the box of Wings and use them to take down the plane? get real.
As an added bonus- because we were flying on one-way tickets we both got to get the special wanding and having our shoes xrayed as well. Despite the fact that we were obviously a rather pregnant mom wearing sandals, and a very excited little boy who couldn't wait to take a picture of the 'very first plane he was getting to fly in'. There is just a computerized system that randomly spits things out.
Trivial yes. But an indicator of how utterly absurd some of these "security measures" are.
Snatching our nail clippers and doing random security checks isn't going to stop people who want to do destructive things. They'll just use something that isn't being checked for. They'll find some other method of attack. They'll not use a plane. And they will prey on peoples' fears of being attacked.
I pity those who live in fear, I pity those who are so afraid of terrorism that they willingly agree to let the First Amendment be trashed.
I feel sadness to know that people who have been Americans their entire lives, have travelled out of country on vacation, and are being detained for days upon re-entry. Because their ethnic background is of one Arabic nationality or another. Racial profiling is now the Accepted Mode of Operations. (did it ever really go away to begin with?) How pathetic.
I read this slew of posts, and see all the emotional baggage that people have. The finger-pointing, the name-calling. The rampant bigotry and hatred. For what? What does this accomplish?
I may not be able to waltz into D.C. and force some changes, there are only a 'select few' who have that type of power & priviledge. But I can look into my own community and make the effort to foster the sense of equality. To not edge away from someone in the grocery store because they happen to be of Arabic descent. I can teach my kids to respect another individual and their right to hold their own set of beliefs. That violence isn't the first answer to a problem. I can connect with other generations by being involved with Youth Mentoring programs, or assist at the local Senior Citizen's Center. I can vote, sit in a jury even though the pay you get is inadequate compensation of wages. Go to city council meetings and let my voice be heard. Feedback from situations like those do trickle up the chain of politics- but only if we all get off our collective asses and actually get involved.
So, how has 9/11 affected my life? It has been the 'final straw' that has slowly overcome my willingness to live complacently in a state of non-involvement in my community, state, country. Am I some sort of militant, highly active, super-mom participant? no-.... I'm too much of a procrastinator. But I at least have a better idea of exactly what I 'can' do, and some goals in place for actually 'doing' those things.
The only fear I live with, is that of not knowing what goofy freedom-removing thing the government will do next. Whether it is to its own people, or the people of some other nation.
My argument is that the Constitution is there to *protect* the right to free, unrestricted political speech.
Not just speech that you agree with -- unpopular speech. Popular speech doesn't, by definition, need protection.
SPYING is and was a punishable crime, as are several other activities people were charged with during the 50s. Expressing political views contrary to the views of the majority, or of the government is NOT. It is a protected right of our citizenry.
I'm not sure where you get that advocacy bit. All I'm advocating is Free Speech, specifically free POLITICAL speech -- what this country is founded on. If people then commit criminal and/or violent acts then they deserve the punishment they get.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Political speech is protected speech. Irrespnsible speech is not. Telling us you are going to vote democrat because you do not ilke what has been done post 911 is okay, but telling the world you think the USA had it coming is not. Praying to your God is free speech, but praying to God as your money goes to terrorist organizations is treason
Dawn of the Dead
It has nothing to do with anyone's courage. It has everything to do with selfish, spoiled Americans who would willingly risk the lives of others rather than accept the slightest inconvenience. All that I've seen here is simple whining from children who are stamping their feet because the adults need to impose a few rules.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
> If the US is not the best country (remember, most folks speak of the best country as far as opportunity for the common man, not global politics), then exactly which country do you think holds that claim?
Fortunately for you, the UN does a report to answer your very question. The US has never topped it, but its usually in the top 10. It was 6th in the 2002 report.
I think what irks many people is that because the average patriotic american would rather have his guts torn out by a plastic spork than be, say, 6th in any given ranking, it is nearly impossible to get some americans to conceed that they are not the best. Nobody is saying the USA blows, and those that do are simply applying the same blind hyperbole that is found in blind no-questions-asked american patriotism.
If I ran the world, my first priority would be to attempt to purge the #1 or Bust value so deeply ingrained in american culture. Out of 200-odd countries on this planet, 6th is still damned good. Plus, it leaves you with the ability and room to improve and become the best. Isn't it kinda boring just assuming the USA is #1? Why not enjoy being 6th of hundreds, and focus on the challenge and fun of improving certain aspects of the country (most notably wage distribution is much worse in the US than other countries).
"Old man yells at systemd"
A famous quote purports that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Isn't that what we are doing with all the airport / event / monument security? Is it just me or didn't this type of thing fail to begin with and allow 9-11 to happen in the first place?
In the last year I've been frisked, searched, sniffed by dogs, exposed to all sorts of radiaion and generally delayed in every possible fashon - each time thinking to myself how useless and costly the whole process is.
Ok maybe I have an engineer's mind on this but it seems to me that we should actually fix the problem. Start by making hijacking a non-issue. Stop paying for these checkpoints and make planes that cannot be co-opted. Lock down the computer controlled flight deck and let the passengers have naked jello wrestling if they so desire - BFD the plane is still going where it's supposed to.
Then move up the ladder to other issues ending up with breaking the US's drug like dependance on forigen oil (ok oil in general). Is it just me or do we need an intervention here? Lets see, what to drug addicts do to assure their supply. They threaten, steal, coerce, and get generally violent don't they? Pretty much describes US behavior whenever our precious oil supply is involved. And pretty much like a drug addict we've pissed off all our friends and family and our only companions are other addicts (are you listening UK? Hello Japan!).
NO Mr. President! You cannot tear up the Bill of Rights just beacuse you used the "T" word. Pound Sand!
"Smile, listen, agree, and then do whatever the fuck you wanted to do anyway." ~Robert Downey Jr.
In a high-tech world, it's not possible for the marketplace to be informed. It takes too much time for an individual to become informed on just one type of product alone. Each person is an informed consumer in only a minority of areas, but is an uninformed consumer in many more areas. People buy cars, houses, computers, software, food, furniture, and appliances, but nobody can be an expert on cars and houses and computers and software and food and furniture and appliances all in the span of a single lifetime.
Lasseiz-faire capitalism functions to keep a check on corruption only in those environments where the majority of consumers are able to be knowlegable. In other words, products that are simple enough to understand that every Tom, Dick, and Harry understands everything about how they work. Everyone knows how a knife, fork, and spoon operate, so if a company tried selling shoddy utensils for more than they're worth, that company wouldn't survive. Everyone would be able to tell the company is screwing them. The same can't be said for modern high-tech products.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
The ACLU defends the rights of individual citizens to exercise their right to religious speech in their private lives. For instance, the ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Lafayette-Parish school board in Louisiana because it's dress code violated the religious beliefs of Rastafarian Children. The ACLU also worked to pass the Religious Freedom Bill of 2000 which helped protect an individual's right to worship.
The ACLU is opposed to government sponsored religion and government restrictions on religion. How more pro religion can you get?
The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control because they believe that the 2nd Amendment refers to the rights of individual states to maintain individual militias. The ACLU also believes that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.For more information, see the ACLU's position paper online.
Ok, I don't even know where this one came from. The ACLU is opposed to all forms of capital punishment and the practice of capital punishment. Aside from the fact that it is a cruel and unusual form of punishment (in violation of the Eighth Amendment), it is also applied disproportionately to minorities and the poor.There is a whole section on their website about this.
Obviously this is patently untrue. The ACLU supports civil rights for all Americans regardless of race, creed, gender, religion, political affiliation or sexual orientation. You're referring to the ACLU's support of Affirmative Action, which is something quite different. I won't try to convince you why Affirmative Action is a good thing, but I'll just say this: there are hundreds of other forms of non-race-based Affirmative Action that take place every day. Things like networking, and knowing a friend of a friend. Things like being in a certain fraternity or going to a certain business school or belonging to a certain society. Nothing can stop these little forms of Affirmative Action from taking place, so the only solution we have to make hiring and school admissions more racially equitable is to introduce one more element into the equation. And contrary to popular belief, Affirmative Action does not deny qualified people access to jobs or schools.For more, please see the ACLU's section on Racial Equality.
In addition to being a card carrying member of the ACLU, I am also a member of the EFF. I wouldn't pick one over the other because they are both important to civil rights online and offline.
Five years down the road, something else Really Bad will happen and the press will be obsessed with something else. We should have a betting pool on the next big press fad. Personally, I'm predicting it'll be mega-storms caused by climate change. Some kind of giant hurricaine will level a nation to the dirt, and the press will drop terrorism like yesterday's news - which it already is.
- -
no, it will be another bioterror attack, and thousands will die, millions will be scarred. The press will call for (and get) the destruction of all smallpox samples, and ban science altogether unless it is used solely for making companies money.
Or maybe it will be an asteroid impact, and they'll ban astronomy - because if we hadn't seen it coming, it wouldn't have hurt us.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
the local (austria) freedom party demanded that everyone's fingerprints should be taken (sic!) and put into a central database. there were other ideas, like taking dna samples from everyone, etc., but nothing really dramatic came out.
on the other side, the whole discussion showed John Doe and his mother-in-law just how much their privacy is in danger, and led to numerous groups and activists working against the banning of privacy.
disclaimer : please excuse the horrible english, it's 2am and I haven't slept in ages.
Karma
I still don't believe that the average person in the middle east really cares at all whether or not you can go buy a bear, for instance. They don't want that in their country, but thats a different story. I find it hard to fathom that they want to kill americans because they have the freedom to do things they cannot. The thin line here is the difference between what an american citizen can do in his day to day life, and the will of america to force the rest of the world to adopt that lifestyle. Its not our lifestyle that riles up other nations, its our desire to have them except it in their own countries. And its really non of our business. If it was, then why dont we stop being hypocrites and enforce our will on everybody equally. Are arabs free in Isreal? Are Somali's free in Somalia? So on and so on.
Nobody wants to kill you because you can freely go buy a porn magazine. They want to hurt the bringer of what they see as decadence and evil into their own lands. Its a subtle but huge difference. One that is ignored in the "you will never stop our way of life" propoganda spewed by the mouths of our leaders.
Not to mention they overwhelmingly closer to home facts of our attrocities in their own countries. Supporting and arming the Saudi royal family. Supporting civil war in Afghanistan. Supporting Iraq, then bombing them when they step on our toes. Supporting Isreal, etc etc. Those are things they are faced with every single day. Not you being able to go watch Spiderman uncensored. But your tax dollars going to pay for the methods and means to cause much anguish in their own home towns. If your child was maimed by a US made mine, that would upset you a lot more then your being against alcohol. Do you want to see the citizens of countries where child pornography is legal die in horrendous terrorist acts? Its morally against everything we believe here, yet we dont have militia groups planning terror attacks on them. Yet if those countries were actively attacking your children, you would do something about it, with whatever means you had available. Make no mistake about it, people in many middle eastern nations feel they are at war with us. Not for our way of life, but for our intrusive invasion of their own lives.
Because they aren't stupid enough to let their hate interfere with going where they can make enough to live on?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Per head of population, more Australians served their country in the war effort than the US did...
You are right about the fact that each individual counts far more than as a statistic or percentage. Everyone who gave up their lives to defend the world against the tyrants of Germany and Japan are heros, they went the extra yard and gave their lives for freedom... But for a country which had fewer people than all the soldiers who were serving in the US military, those 30000 lives lost were a lot.
As for doing the right thing, how many foreign governments has the US toppled with their black op slush funds and replaced them with leaders that were supposed to be supportive of the US. Only to have them then turn around, take the money and shaft the states... How many times have you been caught out at it...
I wasnt comparing the Bush administration to Hitler... I was just saying watch out that there isnt a supposed terrorist attack that points straight towards Suddam and Iraq which then justifies an all out US attack on that country.
Why dont I take Spain to task... Ummm if I remember rightly, wasn't Spain a neutral country... just like Switzerland?
Neways... have a nice day mate...
*** I had a
Two
I'm tired of people parading and commercializing this damn event as if it's something to be sensationalized. Accept it and move on. If you want to remember or grieve in your own way, so be it, but honestly, they're going too far. My favorite TV station cancelled all programming and ran some 9/11 special ALL DAY LONG. I honestly feel bad for people who have birthdays on this day and now have to live with this crap.
Magius_AR
You combine cynicism and stupidity in impressive amounts.
Maybe the state's highest function is to grind out insoluble problems. (Zelazny, Hall of Mirrors)
Actually...yuo're wrong....If every country hates us, how come we have 3 MILLION third world immigrants pouring into our country a year?? How come no matter WHERE you go, the stores, the companies and the WELFARE lines are run by Indians, Pakistanis or Mexicans? I wish those countries WOULD hate us.....then the poor kid in the slums can actually get a job at a decent wage rather than competing with a Pakistani for $2 an hour.... :( and fear of middle eastern folk.) and the Indians and Pakistanis, perhaps being a former brit colony also tend to do well here.
I'm not saying everyone hates you. Maybe I needed to make that more clear. People are *frightened* of america. Not hate. The USA has a place in the heart , even for myself, but the govt fricking blows chunks. And over here in Aust, most Indians and Pakistani dudes tend to do pretty well for themselves. Most. Asia is on it's way up. I know here the old Australian fear of asians is fast disapearing (unfortunately displaced by fear of refugees
I dunno what I'm really getting at other than that the US is not the greatest country in the world. Neither is Australia or Brittain, or any of them. It's earth. Thats the best country.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Be sure to help others how to use their new computers and show them how to surf the net and set up email accts and register on as many different sites as possible...if you get spammed, just forward the spam to another spammer...allow others to use your login names and get permission to use theirs too! S. Africa, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Australia...all have many portals...surf every link you can whether it intersts you or not...soon the law will be seizing computers all over the world in your name(s)...hell, I like having my identity stolen...that wasn't me! I don't even know what Anime is...who's this Buffy the vampire thing...Tiger who? N'est pas? Wast?
work your ass off, follow the golden rule, be vigilant, and smile when you greet your fellow humans and animals...it's all entertainment...someday when you least expect it the world will right itself...
said by our own Madeline Albright. I hope you're not that callous.
Ceci n'est pas un post
I tend to agree that the Old testament and the New don't seem to belong to the same religion sometimes. I really don't understand why "Thou Shall Not Kill," but then again, kill all those guys, and anyone who does this, and, oh yeah, kill him too. By the way, I didn't say that Christianity was peaceful, just that Islam was not. Christians have a long and bloody history, especially when the Vatican rose to power. I do think that you need to review your history of the middle-east just before the spread of Islam, though. Just after the death of Mohommad, the Muslims decided that they needed to spread their faith, and they used the sword to do it. The first Crusades were to take the Holy Lands back. Other Crusades were because the soldiers sent on the first ones were more interested in rape and pillage than conquest, but that's another story. It was a bad time to live in the Middle-east for everyone. Kind of like now. I don't know if there will ever be peace in the region. By the way, I am a Christian, and I believe God knows the truth, but we are VERY confused about it. We are perhaps as wrong as they are (whoever they are,) but what the heck? You've got to believe something! - JDbear
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.