Namibia Says "No Thanks" To Microsoft Donation With Strings

The Register posted an update about Namibia's SchoolNet, Microsoft "donations", and what looks like Namibia final decision. Apparently, MS's "donated" contributions would have been so small (and would have required such a large investment in OS licenses), that SchoolNet Namibia found it wasn't even worth bothering with. A very interesting article.

Comments

Typical MS

[ChaoticLimbs]

Microsoft will never give away valuable items. That's why they are giving away Windows.

Re:Typical MS

[Darth Coder]

Did you actually read the article?

MS was giving them $2000 worth of copies of Office, but they would have been required to spend $9000 in order to buy Windows to use it!

Re:Typical MS

[sconeu]

MS was giving them $2000 worth of copies of Office

Oooh!! 5 whole copies!!!!

Re:Typical MS

[dacarr]

At last count, one copy of the MS Office package for students was $300. For price comparison sake, WordPerfect 8 sold at Fry's for about this much back in 1998 - this was the full version.

At any rate, assuming that the price scheme still stands, $2000 worth of this in California would buy you 6 copies of the software, tax inclusive, and you'd probably have enough for dinner at a nice place with your wife.

(Note: I have not priced Microsoft software since 1998, as I've not had the need.)

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm...so they calculate the OS as being $180 each but Office Pro licenses come in at $40 each?

I'm not saying that Microsoft wasn't pulling a fast one but these numbers don't real.

Re:Typical MS

[CheechBG]

A small update for you then:

At college bookstores, Office XP can be had for 20 bucks, in some places. Right now, MSFT has an initiative to sell student/teacher versions of Office XP (with PowerPoint added, it's not in the Standard versions) for US$149.97. I think the "burden of proof" is set on the buyer to verify that they are actually a student or teacher, but anyone can pick up the software off the shelf and buy it.

Re:Typical MS

[cscx]

At my school, you can obtain WinXP Professional, Office XP Professional, and FrontPage 2002 each for $5, and Visual Studio.NET for $10. That's almost $2000 worth of software (full, licensed versions) for about $25. Not bad, even for students.

Re:Typical MS

[wmspringer]

At mine, we have MSDN, so we can download 6 or 8 versions of Windows, Visual Studio, and Visual Studio .Net for free. Haven't seen Frontpage of Office available, though.

I did see Office XP available FREE after rebate at CompUSA the other month, which was quite a surprise...would have gotten it, expect I don't use XP, don't plan to start, and have OpenOffice anyway :-)

Is that $5 including CDs? Quite a deal...it's a shame other companies aren't as generous with colleges as Microsoft is. I know there's some Adobe software I wouldn't mind getting ;-)

Re:Typical MS

[ictatha]

I guessing you also had to pay tuition... How much was that?

Don't get me wrong... I'm sure you probably paid much less for that software than you would've otherwise... But I highly doubt that your total cost was only $25. Universities pay a lot for those Microsoft campus agreements, and the money they pay for it with comes from somewhere, either your tuition/fees, or your tax dollars. (unless a rich Alumni/'Partner'/etc. donated the money, then you may be off the hook, and getting a deal)

Re:Typical MS

[donutz]

You do realize that the rest of the cost of those microsoft licenses is coming out of your tuition, right? right?

Re:Typical MS

[Malcontent]

Buying education version when you are not a student is exactly like pirating it. Why not jut pirate it and call it a day? Does it really ease your conscience to buy education version illegally?

Re:Typical MS

[jasontheking]

5 pressed cds!. it's very generous of them , isn't it? It would have cost them about two dollars to make.

Re:Typical MS

[fatbitch]

At my (uk) university we had some kind of deal where everything was *free*

sign a form, declaring you were a student of the university and you wouldn't copy anything for anyone else, show your pass and you had the disks for 24 hours.

The disks included:

Office

Windows (lots of flavours)

all the dev stuff (c++ j++)

I think this was more an educational rather than a bulk licensing deal

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Universities don't actually pay very much for these agreements. I heard some figures from a guy involved in this a little while ago, and although I don't remember the exact sums, they were small enough to be entirely insignificant to any university.

The software is essentially given away, since students typically aren't willing to spend much money buying software. The obvious return is that students who use Microsoft software at university are unlikely to switch to other software when they start working, and can afford to buy it.

Students who learn, for example, to program on UNIX or Linux (in my experience, this is the common case) still very often switch to Microsoft once they start working (as I did), but if they use Microsoft to begin with, there is no need to convert them.

Re:Typical MS

[larien]

Hrm; when I was at uni, I was able to walk into a bookstore and buy MSVC 5 + VB 5 for £100, far less than RRP. All I had to do was have my lecturer sign a form saying that yes, I was a student. Sent that off to MS and got my software back.

This was, obviously, before I became so cynical (some might say englightened) of MS.

At the time, I don't think my uni had an agreement with MS, that only came in about 3-4 years after I finished (I started working there, so I know when it happened).

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's not exactly like pirating it. If one were pirating it, they would be getting it at $0 revenue to Microsoft (whether they paid something for it or not).

The academic version, MS still gets $, just not $$$.

It is something MS can turn a slight blind eye to, because they're still moving product, getting Office onto computers, as well as $.

Re:Typical MS

[26199]

At Cambridge in the UK, all the computer science students get Windows XP absolutely free... as well as Visio, .NET junk, and a few other bits and pieces. I severely doubt the university paid them anything for it... it's pretty obvious that Microsoft wants to make sure we're all programming under their OS.

Then again, we also have a new building to house the computer science department... called... the William Gates building. I kid ye not. Paid for in its entirety by Microsoft, in return for which they got to name it, and that's it.

Microsoft seem to be quite happy to spend money when they think it'll give them an advantage in the future... really, it's odd that they proposed such a lousy deal here.

Re:Typical MS

[cbreaker]

I don't agree with you here - if you aren't "legally" allowed to purchase the software at a discounted price then it's illegal, there is no "somewhat illegal." It either is or it isn't.

In the grand sceme of things, whether you pay out $300 or $10 for a peice of software, it won't make a difference in Microsofts' wallet. If you purchase their software "illegally" (or under false pretences) that's something they can be upset about.

As a footnote, the student prices are so low because they want students to use their software, become dependant on it, and when they are not in school anymore and deciding what software to put on 300 machines in their offices, it is hoped they would choose Microsoft. It's not for "good graces" that it's so cheap.

Re:Typical MS

[Lussarn]

That's almost $2000 worth of software (full, licensed versions) for about $25.

No, it's not. It's $25 worth of software. Or do you resell the software for $2000? Didn't think so.

Re:Typical MS

[slipgun]

At last count, one copy of the MS Office package for students was $300...

I was under the impression that the student edition retailed for about the price of a blank disc...

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm.. here in austria a student license for windows xp at the technical university of vienna does cost 7 euros. afaik office xp does cost about 9 euros...

Re:Typical MS

[JohnFluxx]

Several years ago I did this for MS Visual Studio (I was young and nieve okay! :)

The box just contained a card, which I had send off to Ireland iirc, along with lots of proof that I was a student (letter from teachers etc) and then waited a month and then I got it :)

It actually turned out to be more expensive to get the student version! This was because they didn't include the manuals in the student version, but did in the full version. The cost of the manuals + student copy totalled up to above the cost of the full version.

Boy, was I pissed off when I found that out.

Re:Typical MS

[JohnFluxx]

In cambridge? Jeeez. I'm at manchester - half the staff would leave imediately if they named a building after bill gates.

We have cool buildings - like Kilburn (The guy who made the Baby machine, and used CRT's to store memory and stuff).

Re:Typical MS

[JohnFluxx]

Heh, just found this - Our uni's take on MS:

http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/software/jargon/html/ent ry /Microsoft.html

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to use Windows XP to run Office XP. Congratulations for buying into M$'s scheme of "most people will assume that you must have one to run the other". You certainly aren't the first.

Re:Typical MS

[AKnightCowboy]

At our school the costs are so cheap for their software in the bookstore because the university has a multimillion dollar contract with MS to buy software from them for the entire school. Cheap versions for students is just a side affect of that and it's most likely offset by the increased prices we pay in our technology fee.

Re:Typical MS

[Dog and Pony]

Of course. By giving students cheap development environments, they get future software to their platform, as well as future programmers. Possibly even students that bitch to their teachers that they should be running the MS environments in programming classes.

Re:Typical MS

[Lumpy]

Exactly, a non student (if you aren't currently enrolled in college courses, you are NOT a student by their definition) your software is ILLEGAL and you are a thief. That also means, that as soon as you graduate, you must STOP USING IT, and you really cant use it on your summer break if you take one...

People need to actually READ the eulas they agree to... they would stop supporting microsoft in any way if they actually read what they are agreeing to.

(NOTE: this is the legal definition of a student as is regarded in legal contracts... the microsoft EULA does NOT specifically say anything but the fact that you must be a studen to use that student version... and you stop being a student the second you aren't registered for classes.)

Re:Typical MS

[great om]

Well that's not neccisarily the case. university of Pittsburgh (where I am a mlis grad student) has free microsoft office /windows packages available, and you explictly allowed to keep using the software after you grdauate.

Re:Typical MS

[jmertic]

When I was in school 2 years ago it was even better. You could buy Office, etc, for $10 a CD, OR you could rent it out of the school library for free. Which is how I have Windows 2000 now ( would have got Office et al, but (a) I already have Office copies available to me if needed and (b) OpenOffice fits the bill for Office, and I don't use Visual Studio for work at home ).

Re:Typical MS

[26199]

Ah, well, ours aren't exactly Microsoft fans either, in general... but they obviously thought Bill's (undisclosed) contribution to the £20m project large enough to give the small concession of letting him name it...

Actually, the irony of it is wonderful, given the number of teething problems the building has had :-)

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard some figures from a guy involved in this a little while ago, and although I don't remember the exact sums, they were small enough to be entirely insignificant to any university.


Hmm...sounds like a credible source to me!

Re:Typical MS

[Kombat]

5 pressed cds!. it's very generous of them , isn't it? It would have cost them about two dollars to make.

Well, that, plus another couple billion in the R&D to actually develop it, but hey, we can't count that, right?

Re:Typical MS

[Kombat]

In the grand sceme of things, whether you pay out $300 or $10 for a peice of software, it won't make a difference in Microsofts' wallet

Uh, check your math, dude. Actually, it'll make precisely $290 difference to Microsoft's wallet.

What, you think that when you pull in billions per year, the hundreds don't matter anymore? Newsflash: the hundreds are what ADD UP to the billions. They matter!

Re:Typical MS

[alecto]

Universities don't actually pay very much for these agreements.

Yet. But at some point after the schools are "addicted" and almost can't function without the products, they'll be presented with two options: erase all the rented copies or renew at an astronomically higher rental rate. Just you wait and see.

Re:Typical MS

[swv3752]

Developement is a sunk cost. If MS has not already regained the money spent, then you might have a point. I don't think anyone believes that MS might be in the red in regards to Office developemnt.

So giving a couple of copies of Office away costs them very little in real money, and potentially takes away a future source of revenue by a small amount. If they were to buy Office, likely it would be one of the reduced rate versions- like the educational one. With what MS can expect to gain in taxes from a donation, they would come out making money on the deal.

Re:Typical MS

[Cpt_Kirks]

A couple billion? To what, get the shade of blue *JUST RIGHT*?

Re:Typical MS

[vidarh]

Cambridge most certainly does pay Microsoft for it under Microsofts Select 4 licensing. See this page for some superficial information about (no prices etc).

Re:Typical MS

[johnalex]

Buying education version when not a student isn't always pirating. I can buy software at my alma mater's bookstore because I'm an alumnus and an active member of the Alumni Association.

Of course, I'm also a student again, just at another university. I suppose that means I qualify for the student discount anyway.

Re:Typical MS

[cloudmaster]

Most places that require student status recognize that you're still a student over the break between semesters, including over summer break. I'm pretty sure that I remember signing up for fall courses at the end of the spring semester, anyway, so I *was* enrolled in classes during summer, but they didn't start until fall... :)

Re:Typical MS

[xipho]

Yes bad. We have *exactly* the same deal here. However, if you look closely at your tuituion and fees costs I'm sure you'll see an additional/increase in your "computer-access" fee or some-such that wasn't there before. In our case it just so happens that the increase in fees, (over a total of four years at school), is slightly more than the retail (not student) cost of MS office. If you want all the software available (how many of the 45,000 undergrads are going to use .net???) you *might* come out ahead.

Our school has also had some really misleading information about this great "deal". In one place we are told that we retain the lisence for as long as we are at school. The sales/distribution rep claimed that it was a "sure thing" that school's renewal of the aggreement would occur in the following years. However, when I quized her she admitted that we only have a one year agreement with M$, and that as soon as that year is up the school has the option to not renew...in which case your lisence is no good (not that people will abide but still). Nice.

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

(unless a rich Alumni/'Partner'/etc. donated the money, then you may be off the hook, and getting a deal)
But even then, that donation could have gone to lowering your tuition instead, so you still pay more than $25 for the software. And if you don't make use of the deal, you're paying something for it anyway.

Re:Typical MS

[Fjord]

Because then you get the CDs and manuals and don't have to have the pain of pirating (I used to be a flaming pirate, and even I found it tedious). All that is worth $20.

Re:Typical MS

[Jucius Maximus]

"Then again, we also have a new building to house the computer science department... called... the William Gates building. I kid ye not. Paid for in its entirety by Microsoft, in return for which they got to name it, and that's it."

Correction: It was paid for by you and your colleages, professors, parents, etc. (At least that's how it will be paid for since Microsoft will get a big tax break and you'll fill that void with your tax dollars.)

Re:Typical MS

[juan2074]

another couple billion? Was that in Turkish lira?

Re:Typical MS

[Savant]

Hate to be disagreeable, but Microsoft doesn't pay taxes in Britain to the best of my knowledge, and those of us who do pay taxes in Britain pay them in pounds sterling, rather than dollars.

The university in Cambridge being mentioned is the rather famous British one.. as in "Oxford and Cambridge".

Savant

Re:Typical MS

[Zordak]

I don't know about anybody else, but at my University, all of the near-free MS products are just CDs pressed by the University from a master disk (it even has the University's logo, instead of Microsoft's), and come with Zero documentation or anything else.

Re:Typical MS

[Overzeetop]

I learn new things everyday. I just assumed that since I will perpetually be a student of life, I would always qualify.

Re:Typical MS

[ivan256]

THe school I wen to has a license transferral clause in their MS site license. Any student can install any of the software on their machine while they are in school there. Upon graduation, a license transfer is granted to each machine the student owns with the software installed on it. That meanse you don't have to stop using the software until you get a new machine. The school doesn't have a special arrangement, they have a standard MS educational site license, so many other schools with an MS site license will have the same clause.

There's a huge MS fee in your bill every semester, so you damn well better be allowed to kep the software you paid for.

That also means, that as soon as you graduate, you must STOP USING IT... People need to actually READ the eulas they agree to...

FUD is bad no matter which side it comes from. Please don't make statements based on your assumptions. Make sure you are correct before you spread information.

Re:Typical MS

[cbreaker]

I checked my math over and over, and I still can't find a problem with it. A small percentage of people paying a discounted price wouldn't change things, in my opinion.

So, uh, dude, Newsflash.

Re:Typical MS

[ivan256]

I neglected to post a link to the license I mentioned in my previous post. Check out section 6(a) of the following license:

Microsoft® Campus License Agreement

Basically you're just totally incorrect.

Re:Typical MS

[Sentry21]

I think the "burden of proof" is set on the buyer to verify that they are actually a student or teacher, but anyone can pick up the software off the shelf and buy it.

Anyone can pick it up off the shelf, but you have to show ID to buy it. Most places actually require you to leap through hoops to purchase stuff, and even then, it's not upgradable (the Office XP package at UNB's bookstore says this with a large sticker on the front). Thus, if you need to get a new version (i.e. if your professor upgrades when a new version comes out, or if the university upgrades them), you have to pay full student price again. Sure, it's only a hundred bucks or so, so it's not that bad, but since you don't really get anything new except compatibility, it's a pretty raw deal.

--Dan

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

I find that a pretty unlikely scenario. It's easy for a university to, say, convert from teaching Java to teaching .NET, and vice-versa. If MS tried to impose high fees, they'd just switch to something else.

The benefit of giving software to unis isn't to try and 'hook' them so you can push up prices later (which wouldn't even work since there are viable alternatives to MS), it's all about ensuring students learn about your stuff instead of the competition. This means after they graduate they'll probably develop products or do reseach on your platform instead of a competing one. This is basically what has kept UNIX alive all these years, event though it's been pretty stagnant since the early 1990s.

If MS does displace UNIX, it would be totally insane to risk losing this massive benefit in exchange for a few paltry licensing fees (esp. since most unis would just dump MS before paying significantly higher fees anyway).

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

For the academic side, your argument is good, but Windows spreads like a cancer (to use Microsoft's words about Open Source software) throughout the administration, to the point where it would grind to a halt without Exchange/Outlook, Excel, Word, and most importantly, PowerPoint.

Re:Typical MS

[26199]

*cough* when I said 'entirety', I really meant 'in part'...

Some undisclosed donation from the Gates foundation, actually... I can only assume it was a substantial part of the total.

Next time I'll get my facts straight before posting... really I will :-)

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

A couple billion to R&D a word processor? I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

news flash: 98% of all college students would pirate office anyway.

Re:Typical MS

[ealar dlanvuli]

It's not generosity, it's tuition costs for a site license.

There's a difference.

Re:Typical MS

[jdeking1]

More importantly, if you buy the Student version when you are not a student, you should read the fine print: it cannot be upgraded. When a new version comes out, you have to pay for it.

Re:Typical MS

[AvitarX]

Umm, MS upgrade of office, $170.00 (I think)

new student copy $20.00

I really don't think not being able to upgrade is that bad.

Re:Typical MS

[KingOfBLASH]

Well, that, plus another couple billion in the R&D to actually develop it, but hey, we can't count that, right?

You know I used to think the money I forked over for each new version of M$ Office was worthwhile. Then I switched to Linux and realized that: a) I've been paying for a lot of extra features I never use and have never seen before - or every new version of Office comes with enough pretty window dressing to fool the layman. b) OpenOffice accomplished in a short amount of time what microsoft has been hacking away at for something like 10 years. (I may not have the dates right, corrections are welcome) c) Microsoft is a waste of money. -Dan

Re:Typical MS

[KingOfBLASH]

Throw in the money the school kicks back to micro$oft, and the money that micro$oft saves in printing manuals, burning CDs, and distributing it. Then make sure to take out the money that Best Buy keeps when you buy your copy there.

In the end Micro$oft doesn't lose that much money. At the University of Buffalo every semster I pay enough to buy a brand spanking new - and completely pimped out - box in technology fees. I also get everything Micro$oft for free. But when I go to the computer lab I almost never can find a free computer.

Now I know for a fact that there should be enough money to buy 2 computers per student on campus per year. And I've been paying these fees for 4 years.

Where is my money going? Could it be that programs such as Micro$soft Office aren't as free as they seem?

Could be.

-Dan

Re:Typical MS

[Anonymous Coward]

"A couple billion to R&D a word processor? I don't know if I should laugh or cry."

Office isn't a word processor, it's a suite of apps.

Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[bpd1069]

Here is the letter itself...

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[PhysicsScholar]

Here is a mirror.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Anonymous Coward]

I like the way the letter concluded:

Shafted for a paltry US$ 2000? Not in your wildest linga-longer dreams!

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Anonymous Cowrad]

Not a bad looker, that one.

Nudge, nudge.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Anonymous Coward]

yah, she's cute. this pic sure fires up the imagination, eh?

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[kimgh]

Having read both this letter, and the one by Villanueva, it appears to me that officials of Namibia and Peru are not such fools as Microsoft arrogantly supposed. They are not backwoods rubes, but highly educated individuals. In fact, in Namibia's case, the use of English was positively breathtaking!

When I contrast this with the fools we in America appear to prefer to elect, I get positively discouraged.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[billd]

The Villaneuva letter is nothing short of awesome. Please read it.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Herr_Nightingale]

funnily enough, the original draft of that letter is right here. MS lawyers felt it a little too offensive, apparently...

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Anonymous Coward]

But it's really long! And my attention span is so short!

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Anonymous Coward]

It is clear from the letter that these are Linux fanatics. If I were running Microsoft, I wouldn't donate anything to them. There are plenty of worthy organizations for such donations which lack the ulterior motives of pushing the Linux agenda.

Microsoft and Bill Gates donate huge amounts of money all the time, all over the world, and avoiding donating to those who openly and actively support one's competition is only common sense.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Zenstru]

You are supposing so much on what MIcrosoft supposed that its like a fog when I read it.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[archen]

They are not backwoods rubes, but highly educated individuals.

Now congress in the United States on the other hand, is totally the other way around.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Arker]

Oh yes, there are lots of very intelligent people in very poor countries. There is probably a social-evolutionary element to this - it's easier for the stupid to get on in a rich, well developed country than a place like Namibia. Some of the smartest people I've known came from some of the poorest places.

BTW, not that it matters to your point, but I find it amusing and if you don't have any experience with Africans you may not be aware - DO NOT assume that because the man writes well you'd have no difficulty communicating with him face to face. Places like Namibia, Tanzania, and Nigeria have some very smart people that speak English natively, but their accent is truly unbelievable. If you met this guy in person you'd probably swear he was speaking another language. After being around him for a week or two your ears would adjust to where you could understand him half the time, maybe. It's a beautiful accent really, but it's certainly a shock the first time you run into it. Makes Indian and Pakistani English sound like the girl next door in comparison.

Re:Open letter to MS from SchoolNet

[Anonymous Coward]

Be patient. I hear they're going to turn it into a music video.

In other news ..

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, linux gives nothing to Nambia.

Re:In other news ..

[leoboiko]

Yes, they did. And not only to Namibia, they gave the entire OS source code to everyone in the world.

Re:In other news ..

[Anonymous Cowrad]

Remember, GNU/Linux, is protected by the gpl.

So while they technically "gave it away", there are restrictions that shouldn't be ignored.

Strings, they're everywhere.

Re:In other news ..

[Fulcrum of Evil]

while they technically "gave it away", there are restrictions [gnu.org] that shouldn't be ignored.

Yes, you must allow access to any modifications that you distribute. No use restrictions.

Re:In other news ..

[adosoda]

looks as though linux actually gave nambia the ability to have computers in the classroom.

Re:In other news ..

[Anonymous Cowrad]

Touché, but to me there's a Big Important Difference between free and Free. Restrictions are restrictions, as far as I'm concerned.

You know what, Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people here in the trailer park...

Re:In other news ..

[bourne]

In other news, linux gives nothing to Nambia.

Judging from the article, "nothing" goes a long way for them.

Re:In other news ..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to assume that by "offtopic" you mean "critical of the GNU license".

It's directly related to (and even cites text from) the parent post. Call it a troll if you must, but, it's most definitely on topic.

I like to bitch about negative moderation, though, so it's not all bad.

Re:In other news ..

[swillden]

there's a Big Important Difference between free and Free. Restrictions are restrictions, as far as I'm concerned.

Does being an MS astroturfer pay well?

Re:In other news ..

[Anonymous Coward]

Fulcrum of Evil wrote: Yes, you must allow access to any modifications that you distribute. No use restrictions.

Correct. No *use* restrictions. You can use GPL'ed software any way you want. "Modifications" is not use, it is production of a derivative product... an act that is illegal under the Copyright laws of the United States and international treaty.

Except the GPL specifically *grants* you the right to the production of derivative products, but with the condition that you distribute your changes. As such they are *adding* to your rights, not taking any away.

Also, the GPL specifically grants you the right to make as many copies as you want. Again, this is a right that is normally outlawed by Copyright. Few proprietary software manufacturers grant similar rights, and they normally limit such a grant to "distributable client libraries" that are necessary to use the software. Hence, GPL software gives more use rights than many proprietary software products.

IHBT

Re:In other news ..

[luisdlc]

"...linux gives nothing to Nambia"

And I am wondering what 'Nambia' has to do with all this. Or perhaps you are referring to NamIbia, that super poor and ultra famous African Country...

Re:In other news ..

[Grizzlysmit]

In other news, linux gives nothing to Nambia.

And in other news an Anonymous troll, posts a stupid unfunny flame bait, to slashdot, and getts modded up to 5 funny

it just proves thats some one with no brain has mod points

Maybe this is why

[John Jorsett]

Perhaps Microsoft got wind of the hundreds of millions in locked-up foreign exchange that I'm helping a Mr. Jomo Kenwatta get out of the country (for a modest few mill thrown my way for my trouble, of course.) If the Namibians have that kind of dough lying around, they shouldn't be grousing about a few bucks for licenses.

Re:Maybe this is why

[rueba]

I presume you are referring to Jomo Kenyatta.

Unfortunately he died more than 20 years ago.
And he was president of Kenya, which is on the opposite side of the continent from Namibia.

The scammers have gotten really bold, if they don't even bother to match the president with the country!;)

Re:Maybe this is why

[John Jorsett]

Yeah, I used Kenyatta's name as the starting point, and made a small alteration. Given how young most SlashDotters are and how long ago Kenyatta's name was in the public eye, I thought I'd get away with it. That'll teach me.

Re:Maybe this is why

[rueba]

Ah, don't worry about it. I only noticed because I'm from Tanzania, and Kenya just happens to be our next door neighbour.

I'm pretty sure your average slashdotter wouldn't notice something like this.

In other words..

[SourKAT]

Namibia: I need a vehicle I could drive from home to work. Micorosft: I'll give you free floormats but you have to buy 6 cars.

Re:In other words..

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you stole that analogy from this above comment (paragraph two).

Re:In other words..

[SourKAT]

Nah, not really ... I don't read PhysicsScholar... He's a well-known uber-troll...

Re:In other words..

[duren686]

That would be PhysicsGenius. PhysicsScholar is someone else.

Re:In other words..

[mpe]

Namibia: I need a vehicle I could drive from home to work. Micorosft: I'll give you free floormats but you have to buy 6 cars.

To get the floormats you'll have to buy the cars from Microsoft too. Since Microsoft dosn't do off-road vehicles you'd better think about building some roads :)

Re:In other words..

[JohnFluxx]

MS roads too :)

Re:In other words..

[Anonymous Coward]

> MS roads too :)

Loaded with potholes and unseen cave-ins. Also do not stop at the side street dinners/shopping areas. Many of these are actually owned by crooks.

Re:In other words..

[donutello]

More like:

Namibia: Dear Exxon, I need a vehicle I could drive from home to work.
Microsoft: Here's some old cars and here's enough gas for a year.
Namibia: Umm these cars suck. We're buying new cars. These new Toyotas will look nice. Oh wait, I heard you make the engines for those cars. We want you to pay for the engines since we are poor.
Microsoft: Umm.. we sell those engines to Toyota. Toyota sells those cars. We can't interfere in the way Toyota does its business.
Namibia: Damn you. You're evil. You should be honored to have the privilege to give me stuff because I'm poor.
Register: From my parents basement in Wyoming, I fie on thee, M$.

Re:In other words..

[Datafage]

Um... no.

Oxymoron Count

[MacAndrew]

Now, in addition to "jumbo shrimp," "military intelligence," and other legends, we have "Microsoft charity."

What is it with these guys? Are they crazy like a fox, arrogant, or just dumb? Is Microsoft really that worried about market share in impoverished Africa, and is it this inept at promoting itself?

Well, three cheers for Linux, which doesn't even have a promotional budget.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[MonMotha]

Didn't you forget Microsoft Works? That has got to be the biggest oxymoron of all time.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[ender81b]

Is Microsoft really that worried about market share in impoverished Africa, and is it this inept at promoting itself?

You know that cracks me up. I mean Africa has a mean Per-Capita-GNP of about $2000, a AIDS infection rate reaching 30% in some countries, massive amounts of foreign debt, corrupt governments, and the list goes on-and-on. And yet microsoft is paranoid about market share. You think they would realize that it is *really* hard to get a business/non-profit organization/individual to pay 600-1200$ for the latest Microsoft Products when they can get near-equivalents for *free*. As in free. As in don't have to sacrifice the equivalent of 1 years worth of pay to buy some MS products which might be marginally better than the equivalent *Free* products. The only hope they have is giving them free software since, in all likelihood, if the organization really wants said copies of MS software they will just pirate the darn things anyways. And, hey, wouldn't you if you made 1500$ a year? Note: Don't advocate piracy or stealing, just trying to point out how inept MS strategy is.

To: Microsoft
From: Africa

Subject: Quotes

After reviewing your offering of $15,000 to connect and equip 20 computers with software - from our grand total IT budget of about 50$ - we have decided to go with the competitions offer of *FREE*. That way instead of buying your over-priced software we can actually do some good like teaching rudimentry tech skills, feeding the poor kids we teach, and maybe attracting some tech jobs to improve the future of our grandchildren. We would like to assure you that your quote was appreciated and look forward to possibly doing business with you in the future.

Kthnxbye.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[FatRatBastard]

And yet microsoft is paranoid about market share.

I disagree. Not about marketshare in Namibia anyway. What this sounds like is a cheap and easy PR stunt (the $$$ from the OS licence was just a small cherry on the top). They wanted to be able to crow about how their software replaced Linux in a developing country.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[sys$manager]

But you know the free alternative they are using isn't Linux, right?

It's most likely pirated MS software. They don't have the same kind of copyright laws in the third world and even if they did, they're often not enforced.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Teknon]

And they are enforece here?

Re:Oxymoron Count

[imroy]

Silly me, I thought I read that they're using diskless Linux Terminals. I must have read a different article to you.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

"Well, three cheers for Linux, which doesn't even have a promotional budget."

we don't need one: microsoft does it for us.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, in addition to "jumbo shrimp," "military intelligence," and other legends, we have "Microsoft charity."

Until you donate 2 billion dollars to the cause, maybe you should shut the hell up about charity.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[di0s]

My favorite one is "Microsoft Works".

Re:Oxymoron Count

[CritterNYC]

But you know the free alternative they are using isn't Linux, right?

It's most likely pirated MS software. They don't have the same kind of copyright laws in the third world and even if they did, they're often not enforced.

Why can't I have Moderation: -1, Just Plain Wrong as an option on this one?

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Imperial Tacohead]

Uh, OK, how does that count as evidence that they're actually being used in non-trivial quantities? I agree with the original poster that it's most likely that, as in China, African computer users are more likely to simply use a pirated copy of Windows, than to bother with Linux.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[atcurtis]

Actually, that is probably one of their best products...
Yet another "bought in" product. No innovation.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[dpt]

"Windows 2000 Professional"

Re:Oxymoron Count

[pr0t3uS]

That's what? Less then 1% of his wealth? Hell I'm giving more to chariry than he is.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[erhnamdjim]

Well, I know the guy, and a stronger OOS advocate you couldn't hope to meet.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny thing is MS sells Office in china for about US$ 10.00. They even encourage stealing of it these days to try and get market share away from Linux/OO. Yet they insist on chargin top dollars in africa and south/central america. Sadly a number of dictators there were as easy to buy as Bush's ppl here in the US.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a very small point...but I find it relevant...please try to talk about a specific country in Africa rather than referring to the continent. It might help some people realize that this is a huge landmass with many countries, languages, and cultures. Each has its own problems, per capita GNPs, and a host of wonderful people working towards the betterment of themselves and their societies.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[swillden]

Uh, OK, how does that count as evidence that they're actually being used in non-trivial quantities?

And where's your evidence that SchoolNet is lying?

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft Security

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

Aren't we clever... Seriously though, ask an XP/Office user what Linux is and most of them will tell you it has to do with Charles Schultz.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[jez9999]

I believe you're supposed to mod a post '-1 Overrated' if a statement of fact is proveably wrong.

Re:Oxymoron Count

[dpt]

"Visual Basic programmer"

Re:Oxymoron Count

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, how is it a troll when the comment being posted about actually IS wrong? The dumbass didn't read the story.

Never has there been a more perfect application

[ChaoticLimbs]

for Codeweavers' WINE and crossover office. Take the stuff from M$ amd use office in Linux or BSD.

Re:Never has there been a more perfect application

[IamTheRealMike]

Actually, yeah, CodeWeavers now sell CrossOver Office Server allowing you to pay for 1 license of Office and "run" it on as many computers as you like. How? By exporting them via X of course - dunno how long it'll take for Microsoft to patch that legal loophole but versions up to 2000 at least are good to go.

In my ideal world

[Thurn und Taxis]

In my ideal world, people throughout Africa, India, and Asia learn and become comfortable with open-source software. Then, US corporations get sick of dealing with Microsoft's heavy-handed business practices, and finally decide to switch to open-source alternatives. Where can they find qualified employees? Surprise, the "third world", where people have been using OSOSs (open-source OSs) since they were children. This, my friends, is globalization. I'm tempted to move to Africa to unionize their computer professionals.

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm tempted to move to Africa to unionize their computer professionals.

And what will the three of you do after you unionize?

Re:In my ideal world

[distributed.karma]

> I'm tempted to move to Africa to unionize their computer professionals.

Better you should un-ionize the chemistry professionals *ba-doom ching*

Re:In my ideal world

[Thurn und Taxis]

Well, now that Jam Master Jay and Stephen King are both dead, I figured we'd fill a gap by starting a Horror-Rap band. I just don't know how we're going to make money selling open-source music.

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

technically, gravity is a series of "laws" while evolution is still just a "theory"

Re:In my ideal world

[istartedi]

And what will the three of you do after you unionize?

Get thrown in prison by whatever dictator happens to be in power.

Re:In my ideal world

[rueba]

Funny, ha ha.

Being from Tanzania, I can assure you there are more than a few computer professionals in Africa. Believe it or not, most offices actually have PCs and many have internet access, hence "computer guys" are required to maintain them.

Re:In my ideal world

[machine of god]

3. Profit!!!

Re:In my ideal world

[skaffen42]

Well... if one of those three is Mark Shuttleworth then you probably don't have the minimum net worth to qualify for their union. :)

By the way, am I the only person why think that name is hilarious for a guy who ended flying in a Russion rocket?

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

And what will the three of you do after you unionize?

Strike, naturally.

Re:In my ideal world

[alexandre]

You mean Bush? oh... you were talking about Africa... ;)

Re:In my ideal world

[Radical Rad]

Stephen King is dead? When did that happen?

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't you been reading Slashdot? In practically every article, an Anonymous Coward posts a fake obituary for Stephen King. I actually believed it the first time.

Re:In my ideal world

[Russellkhan]

I'm curious, is Windows the major platform in the business world there, or do the majority of businesses run Linux, or is there some other platform that's dominant there? If Microsoft is dominant, what percentage of the software in use (in business) would you say is fully licensed and what percentage is pirated?

Please note, I'm not making any assumptions and I don't at all mean to imply that businesses there are operating illegally, I am honestly curious about this.

Russ

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

Disclaimer: I'm not necessarily anti-OS.

I still think that in practice a fully Open Source world will create a lack of jobs for myself and other programmers. Seriously, what other profession (Engineers, Architects, Lawyers, etc.) works for FREE, effectively lowering the value of their profession? I simply don't understand it. Now, small community or school funded projects are a great application of Open Source, or Industry Standard projects like a protocol also make sense. Finally, all government work should be BSD'd unless classified. But for an individual to contribute 100's of hours towards a large project like Apache or Linux, when he could be A) spending it with his family or B) making money to feed his family is beyond me. First, you complain about major corporations like MS and their power, and then you work for them for FREE. That's right, when you give away your software, even GPL'd, you are increasing the profit margins of other companies with no personal gain for yourself. I simply don't get it.

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

If course there are more than three.
Not much.

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

Which one of you gets to feed the monkey?

Re:In my ideal world

[Bert64]

Well, most opensource software is, atleast initially, written for personal use. Atleast in the case of various things i`ve written, which i released in the hope that other people would fix bugs and make general improvements.
A large software project is often too much for a single person to deal with, and the more users you have.. the more chance of bugs being found. The GPL means that some company can`t come along, take your work, and turn it into a propriatory product. They must include the source and credit you, even if they dont pay you directly. If this product becomes popular, then you stand to become well known as a programmer which can be a good thing when your applying for a job.
And contrary to public opinion, most programmers are writing in-house software or single-purpose apps, not shrinkwrap general-purpose software.
Afterall, commercial software has to target the largest market possible, if you have a task that requires specialist software, you either have to hope that a company will sell you this software, for a high price. Or employ people to write it for you, which results in software which is EXACTLY suited to your needs and which the company has total control over.

Re:In my ideal world

[JohnFluxx]

OpenSource increases the human race's knowledge and wealth. For some of us, that is important.

Why am I here? I don't know, but I do want to make a difference in at least a small way. I feel that writting proprietry software doesn't exactly increase the world's knowledge.
What do I do once I can earn enough money to feed my family? After all, that isn't exactly a huge cost. For some, the answer is just keep trying to make more, and more. Until you end up at Bill Gates with $8 Billion in his personal bank account (Or however much it is).

If you are serious, go read Cathedral and Bazaar by Eric S. Raymond. ESR focuses a lot less on ethics etc than Richard Stallmen, and since ethics tends to get people squimish, I recommend you read ESR - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, even if you don't agree with his writting.

Re:In my ideal world

[JohnFluxx]

Doh! I forgot to mention a major point, if you want a non-ethics/philosphical reason, that only 10% of computer jobs are making off-the-shelf software. Its a point brought up by ESR in that book I mentioned.

Re:In my ideal world

[dmaxwell]

Your premise only makes sense if the only work programmers do is cranking out code that is sold as product. If a web hosting company finds a bug in Apache then it makes sense to send in the patch so the next version of Apache has their fix. Note well that the service delivered is web hosting not an http server. A large web hosting company will have a few programmers gluing things together with software. They are not working for free and Open Source facilites their work.

Most firms do not make software for money. Most make money WITH software. You are correct in that OS will compete with those who produce closed proprietary software. Open Source has advantages that closed source simply cannot provide espcially if someone has a need for a customized solution. If closed source firms want to compete then they will have to deliver exceptional value. Open Source forces closed companies to make better software to stay alive. The customer wins whether he goes with closed or open. The customer is not obligated to only be able to use closed source solutions with no competition so you can have a job.

Lastly, I'll note that most major Open Source projects like Apache and the Linux kernel have paid programmers contributing to them. OSS is often part of an overall solution that is sold for money. The OSS provides core functionality so that wheels need not be continually reinvented. Again, you are not owed a job constantly recoding solutions for problems that were solved a long time ago. Most code that is truly written for free is probably not worth that much on it's own. Think minesweeper and tetris clones. OSS programmers can get paid just like closed programmers.

Re:In my ideal world

[vidarh]

Look into where software engineers are employed. Only an extremely tiny minority is working on general purpose programs for a company that publish software commercially. The vast majority of software development is proprietary development done to the specifications of a company. They won't go away because there's suddenly open source projects available.

Sure, many of these projects will be smaller because they can draw on open source components. But similarly many more projects will suddenly make economic sense exactly because the company can cut the projected cost by improving an existing open source project instead of building something from scratch.

For software projects that aren't directly revenue generating, that is a critical factor. Open source has already been the enabler for several projects I've worked on: Thanks to Linux and other open source we've been able to cut the cost of the projects enough that we've been able to spend money elsewhere instead - including on further software development of features we would've gone without if we didn't have access to open source.

We're not creating a lack of jobs - we're widening the market by creating a platform of commodity software that can be customized cheaply enough to enable projects that would otherwise be dead long before getting even to a requirements specification because of cost issues.

Modifying well tested commodity software is also a smaller risk, and less complex, and as such should hopefully in the long run reduce the failure rates of IT projects, which would further increase the chances of getting projects approved.

Re:In my ideal world

[rueba]

In the "business" world, Windows is the major platform(the ISPs use UNIX more).

I'd say a pretty large proportion is pirated, especially the software bought through local distributors who are massive pirates.

The only software that isn't pirated is probably the software that comes preloaded onto the computer(if the PC is imported brand new from the States).

Perhaps that will change as Microsoft implements more security measures(e.g activation, registration etc).

Re:In my ideal world

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm trying to figure out if you are more a) ignorant, b) callous, or c) simply racist.

Re:In my ideal world

[grunherz]

Hmmm. Kinda like we switched to the metric system after the rest of the world did? Why didn't we? Retooling. That may happen in the rest of the world but the US is so big and so entrenched it will be stuck in a viscious cycle of Microsoft solutions. And that John Shearer creep will be selling billions of video professor packages! ... still. But at least in your ideal world we could vacation safely in Africa.

wait ... 20 Fl. Oz. is 591ml ... how many pints in a liter?

nevermind.

Re:In my ideal world

[mpe]

I still think that in practice a fully Open Source world will create a lack of jobs for myself and other programmers. Seriously, what other profession (Engineers, Architects, Lawyers, etc.) works for FREE, effectively lowering the value of their profession?

Actually all your examples work better as proof that a fully open source world would have plenty of work for computer professionals. These are all examples of tertiary (service) industries. Where people are paid for their time and expertise. Whilst engineering principles, architectural principles and laws might be obscure and often described in jargon they are not secret.

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

Every example you provided is based on a company paying programmers to work on OS software. Anecdotally I have found that most code is still contributed by individuals. This is what I don't understand (see my original post).

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

Most firms do not make software for money.

Can you proove this? Every home application and game company, IT software (web based e-commerce apps, admin tools, etc.), HR software for small businesses, etc. are all "boxed software" that is sold for a profit. There are a ton of firms that make a lot of money off of this market, and there are a lot of programmers who feed their families off this market. Certain OSS projects seem aimed to undermine this market, which doesn't make sense to me.

we're widening the market by creating a platform of commodity software

I can understand this with small "Widgets" or simple utitlies, but what about enterprise database servers, clustering technology, etc.? It seems like we are just lowballing our talent when really it's worth a lot more.

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

Engineers don't offer a service. They design and/or build something. I don't know any Boeing engineers that contribute to an Open Source airplane design project. I do know a few that get together to build their own plane as a fun project, and they may eventually publish their plans for free on the 'net, but this is far different then a large group of engineers getting together to design the next learjet.

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

You'd do a lot more good if you A) didn't lowball your own salary and donated the extra money and B) donated some time at your local library (for example) teaching people about technology.

Programming is a talent, and it's the only profession that I know of that seeks to lower their own value. I'm not trying to make six figures, I just want to avoid making $45K/year when I'm 35 because a large group of idealists are working for free.

Re:In my ideal world

[JohnFluxx]

Like I said, 90% of programmers don't work on off-the-shelf software (statistic from ESR's book)

Basically, think of it this way - Is there really going to be a point when everything has been coded? It is unlikely for the foreseeable(sp?asdf) future. Talent is hard to come by, and will always be on demand.

It could be argued that for the majority of the 90%-not-offshelf-software jobs, it doesn't matter if the software developed for them is open-sourced or not. So why not make it OS? You aren't going to run out of work.

Does it really make sense for society to have competing teams developing against each other, not sharing each others research?

The kde-gnome war is an interesting counter-example, but they still share knowledge etc - just trying different routes.

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

Does it really make sense for society to have competing teams developing against each other,

Yes, it's called Capitalism. We can discuss the merits of Capitalism all we want, but the reality is if you live in America you are supporting a Capitalistic system, and quite frankly it seems to be working.

Re:In my ideal world

[jez9999]

Give me a break. What is the point in having coding talent if (insert monopolistic company here) is just going to own 95% of the market, rendering YOUR skills useless? We've seen it happen a lot before. A *few* programmers make a *lot* of money out of shrinkwrapped software. Why should those few deserve vast sums of money, whilst many other programmers have to scrape a living? OSS is a great concept. If tools such as database servers, OSes, etc are made opensource, we can end the tyranny of large corporations selling this stuff, and force programmers on making money by providing direct services to a company. That's a far better way for a large number of people to make a decent wage, rather than a privileged few selling massively popular closed software.

Re:In my ideal world

[error0x100]

Only on slashdot:

"There ARE computers, computer professionals, and internet access in Africa"

+5 informative

Re:In my ideal world

[rueba]

Yeah, its pretty sad.

Funny thing is, I can say basically the same thing on every slashdot story about Africa and STILL get +5 informative.

Says something bad about /., but its great for karma-whoring!

Re:In my ideal world

[JohnFluxx]

Seems to be working? It has some pretty major disadvantages - capitalism is not a perfect system, and america is hardly a good example.

But you haven't answered why you think it is good for society to have ppl work against each other - you just gave it a name.

Re:In my ideal world

[tshak]

I'll agree that capitalism has it's problems, and I'm actually pretty critical of it. however, as long as I live in America I'll play by the rules, and live by the rules because you can't be a semi-socialist in a capitalistic country - you'll lose out. So, until I move to Canada, Sweden, or England, I'm playing the capitalist game.

Re:In my ideal world

[JohnFluxx]

There's a good little capitalist! Your government will be proud of you. :)

Nice!

[Psx29]

I hope this generates a PR Nightmare for microsoft and maybe other countries will follow. Especially with quotes like this:

Judging from this example it would appear that the obscenely rich Beast intends to use non-profit organizations in desperately poor countries to subsidize its promotional ambitions and its sales strategy.

Re:Nice!

[Anonymous Coward]

It was posted on The Register, not The New York Times, most people who will see it would already hate Microsoft anyways.

Re:Nice!

[sinserve]

Not just the Register, also on Slashdot now ... errr, wrong argument.

Re:Nice!

[Anonymous Coward]

... not as big a PR nightmare as folks misreading the headline would cause.

I was ready to swear that MS was donating software to the NAMBLA.

The perfect slashdot story

[distributed.karma]

This is preaching to the choir, and instantly earns the +5, Anti-M$ moderation. The word is Slashturbation. What good is this article on these geek media? Someone get this on mainstream news, puhleeze.

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[Thurn und Taxis]

Good point. On the other hand, enough angry posts may get someone to actually take action. After all, it only took one Ralph Nader to change the automobile industry, how many people will it take to change the computer industry?

P.S. I love the word "Slashturbation"!

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[Badanov]

What is wrong with preaching to the choir? Sometimes we need to be reminded why we gather to worship Microsoft.

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[megaduck]

Slashturbation. Cool. I've got a new "Word of the Day".

While this article is definitely "Slashturbation", it's not worthless. A lot of us have been saying that Free Software will gain traction in the third world because anything else is unaffordable. This provides practical evidence of that theory, and is relevant to those of us that care about IT in developing nations or pricing models in general.

Of course, it also gives us anti-M$ cheerleaders a warm fuzzy feeling too.

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[darkov]

What a suprise, Slashdot, like prety much all news services is sucesful becuase it panders to its audience. The fact is people only read or watch what they want to hear or see. It's all harmless fun anyway. The editors post a critical MS story, we all take the piss and have a good chorttle.

And anyway, it couldn't be done without MS's help. They really are a bunch of idiots.

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[Russellkhan]

It is on The Reg too, but that's not much further from the same pulpit.

Russ

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[Fizzl]

A lot of us have been saying that Free Software will gain traction in the third world because anything else is unaffordable.

Hmm.. Now that I think of it.
OSS developers should get some kind of tax-relief for their work. They are supporting third world countries in a great way.

Atleast as I have understood this, there are tax reliefs for charity donations in many countries.

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[lendude]

Errr, not being disrespectful but that's the same link which is the basis of this sub'd /. story :)

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[Russellkhan]

Yep. Brainfart.

Russ

Re:The perfect slashdot story

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you actually read the letter with a balanced view, it looks like a bunch of whiney bastards angry that MS wouldn't give them cash refunds for the OEM copies of Windows included with the laptops they wanted to buy. Only to Linux zealots is it twisted into some 'evil M$ plot'.

You mean...

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

a more perfect application for Open Office, right? I would guess Openoffice would be less of a resouce hog on refurbished older computer as written of in the article than running Office on top of WINE. Also, it's free.

Who else read the following

[Eros]

NAMBLA Says "No Thanks" To Microsoft ....

National
Assoication of
Man
Boy
Love, of
America

Damn Southpark, I manage to learn something everytime.

http://www.nambla1.de/

Re:Who else read the following

[Wiggin]

in south park i believe it was the North American Man Boy Love Association

Re:Who else read the following

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the same thing when I first saw the headline.

Re:Who else read the following

[HeghmoH]

"In south park"? NAMBLA is real! And yes, it is North American Man/Boy Love Association.

Re:Who else read the following

[JonWan]

I thought it was North American Marlon Brando Look-a-like association...;-)

Re:Who else read the following

[jimmcq]

NAMBLA Says "No Thanks" To Microsoft ....

No, we're the North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes.

Re:Who else read the following

[pankajsethi]

They also had another association with the same acronym namely "North American Marlon Brando Look-Alikes"

Re:Who else read the following

[Mynn]

ayup

Cost of publicity

[digitalhermit]

This article mentioned something on the order of 20 *refurbished* PCs to 5 schools (100 used PCs + 5 new servers). Given that PC prices are so relatively low (I've recently put together an Athlon XP1800+ based PC for under $400) It's amazing that a billion dollar corporation is so insanely profit driven that they can't even do something out of *good will*. It must become a profit opportunity. I don't know what level of PCs these are, but the local computer show often has Pentium 233MMX machines, AMD K62/500s and similar for under $100 for the complete machine (memory, disk, cdr).

This is precisely the reason I don't use M$ products. I started using Linux for purely practical reasons, but now it's almost equally philosophical.

Re:Cost of publicity

[adosoda]

Interesting that you mention this, because i was thinking the same thing. Seems as though public image isn't worth much to Microsoft (albeit this story isn't on the eleven o'clock news).

I work at a chain of bookstores that is in similar standing with Barnes and Noble, and we'll do just about anything for the image of the company, even if that means taking a loss on some transactions to give customers a good impression of the company (in turn keeping them loyal to us)

Re:Cost of publicity

[dillon_rinker]

Yup. It's all for the bottom line. They won't give up ONE...RED...CENT*... unless it increases their profits. Pretty abominable, really, but the stockholders pretty much force this on them. Imagine the hue and cry that would come up if MS was just giving money away without expecting anything in return.

Like by making campaign contributions.

Re:Cost of publicity

[McCart42]

It's amazing that a billion dollar corporation is so insanely profit driven that they can't even do something out of *good will*. It must become a profit opportunity.

While I know there is a separation between the actions of Microsoft and the actions of Bill Gates, Bill Gates himself has done plenty of things purely out of good will. His charity donations are interesting to me, in that he donates to causes like disease research -- rather than following the tradition of many philanthropists of yesteryear, donating mostly to public works which are subsequently named after them (I'm sure he does this too, but I believe the main focus is on international health). Note that I'm not saying there's anything wrong or selfish about that--I'd rather study in the Kelvin Smith Library than study in my dorm room, but the selflessness Gates has shown with his riches is one thing I do admire (granted, it doesn't make up for Windows ME, but nobody's perfect). Here's a pretty good cache of stories about his charitable donations.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

It's about time he gave back the fortune he illegally stole from the American public by illegally running and supporting a monopoly.

He isn't donating, he simply making reparations. He's taken the money from people illegally and at least now he's putting it somewhere useful. Took him a hell of a long time to grow a conscience!

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

"Seems as though public image isn't worth much to Microsoft"

of course it isn't. they have a monopoly, remember?

Re:Cost of publicity

[aardvarkjoe]

Why can't you grow up and realize that just because somebody is related to an organization you don't happen to like, it doesn't make them evil?

An evil person wouldn't make the donations that Bill Gates does of his own accord.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

And I'm sure the massive tax burden he'd have otherwise (especially if he dies with that much money) has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Re:Cost of publicity

[YrWrstNtmr]

When he dies, he won't care. His heirs will still have more than all of us put together.

1/2 of a shitload is still a shitload.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>Why can't you grow up and realize that just because somebody is related to an organization you don't happen to like, it doesn't make them evil?

Why can't you realize that being the mastermind of a convicted criminal organization is probably an evil thing to do?

He formed Microsoft with the intent to break the law. And he wasn't doing it out of some form of civil disovedience, just for the illegally wrought cash. He lies to judges, and he lies to his consumers. How much more evidence do you need to show he is an evil man?

You don't have to physically abuse someone before you can be tagged evil, you know.

>An evil person wouldn't make the donations that Bill Gates does of his own accord.

Your turn to grow up!. What's the name of that preacher who raised millions for his church in the name of god again?

You can't buy your way out of being an evil man. At least, you can't in my book.

Once Bill Gate's pays the time for his company's crimes, I'll consider his debt repaid. So far his company just sqirms and squeals like a stuck pig.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

He's no more evil than any other big business out there. You are the typical linux biggot who believes anything profitable is bad.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>He's no more evil than any other big business out there.

How many other businesses in the US have been convicted of illegally running a monopoly at similar levels as Microsoft?

Let's see... Well, recently, according to this 6. If that's common, then I'd love to see what isn't.

>You are the typical linux biggot who believes anything profitable is bad.

You are the typical anonymous coward that has to insult anyone who is more intelligent than yourself.

Bill Gates lies to judges, and you think he is not an evil man? He had more than enough opportunity to plead the fifth, but instead chose to repeatedly commit perjury even after being warned. He deserves to rot in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass penetentary for a week for that alone.

You know who else tends to lie constantly and through their teeth in court? A Mobster.

I won't even get into the fact that Bill Gates has been accused by the police (it's an obscure reference that is hard to find... but quite possible) of being an insane driver which led to that ever-so-popular jailhouse picture. Not to mention his alleged ownership of illicit vehicles.

Re:Cost of publicity

[dsoltesz]

So why don't we put together a fund and donate a pile of low cost linux boxen to the Namibians?

Re:Cost of publicity

[Tomster]

Heh. He feels bad about the way Microsoft shafts people, so he's trying to assauge his guilty conscience by throwing lots of money at charities.

Bill, you are a greedy, self-centered egotist. Find some humility, consideration, and respect for others. You don't "make up" for your company's business practices by funding charities. (Though it's good that you at least have a conscience and are trying to do something right.)

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

Next time you see his wife, thank her, not Bill.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

Er...excuse me? Bill Gates doesn't get things named after him for donations? That's funny...given the fact that until recently I *worked* for an instatution that has had a *fund*, an entire *wing* of a medical school and a brand-spanking new *building* named after the guy (and his wife). Here's a little hint: think Baltimore. Think big, big nationally-famous hospital. Put the two together and you'll know the place I'm talking about. Now onto the second issue: Bill donates out of the goodness of his heart, right? The fact of the matter is that Bill is doing excatly what philanthropists were doing 100 years ago - karma whoring by putting just a wee bit of personally-insignificant money into institutions that garner the support of 1) business/political/celebrity bigwigs first and foremost, and which also (incidently) 2) sometimes net a little good PR from Joe Public. (Remember, with the dilthy rich, is all about who you know - for th only people you can trust - not to mention want to consciously rub shoulder with - are in the exact same boat; namely, abhorrantly rich and loathed roundly by the general public at large. The *only* thin Bill did diffrently was put his money in a place that might, over time, appreciate PR, given the fact that it is supposedly used to fund cutting-edge medical research, which will in turn foster all sorts of new miracle cures, all thanks to "Bill & Melinda Gates". In short, Bill using the doantions to generate "interest dividends" much like any bank would. The joke, however, is on him, because it turns out that (at least where I worked), the institution in question was robbing him blind, and much of the "research money" didn't exactly get spent on research (my ex-boss, for example, laundered enough to buy both a new house *and* a new car.) And of course, we should never forget the small matter of Billy Gates well-known insufficiency problem: without his millions, Little Billy would have nothing to compensate with. Hence the reason that he lavishes so much of his disposable income on things he hopes will bring him good PR (and thus respect). Hell, even with his money, the people he lives near still make fun of him behind his back, and I'm not even going to get into the thing about his wife (you know, the one where he lusted after her in school, but she blew him off...until he became a billionaire. But she loves him, right? Lol. And I'm sure there's a reason why his kids bear a striking resemblance to their gardner, as opposed to Poor Billy himself...)

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

And WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE?

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

Ooh, ownership of illicit vehicles! You haven't got a clue what evil is if you think that qualifies. Corrupt corporations and governments across the world are enslaving, torturing and killing people left and right, and you Slashwanks get worked up about things like "illicit vehicles" and not being nice to those poor little Netscape millionaires.

Slashdotters would be pathetic if they weren't so funny. Thankfully those of us who can actually think don't take Slashdot rants seriously.

Re:Cost of publicity

[JohnFluxx]

Even if they got huge tax benefits out of it, good PR, and the total benefits were above what the donations costs?

Re:Cost of publicity

[vidarh]

And of course his donations of large quantities of shares he'd be unable to sell at reasonable prices has nothing to do with any wish of reducing his tax bill... None, whatsoever - he couldn't possibly have other motivations for his donations...

I'm not saying the end result isn't good, but don't think that he's doing this purely out of good will considering the amount of money he can save by donating shares this way.

Re:Cost of publicity

[iphayd]

Yeah, actually there is a huge separation. In fact, the state of Maine is buying iBooks for all 7th & 8th graders, partially with a grant from The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2002/09/03.12 .s html

Re:Cost of publicity

[fredrik70]

He formed Microsoft with the intent to break the law
I dislike MS for their business tactics and bullying just like everyone else, but, jezz, come on, this is just moronic... MS were a small software company making basic intepreters and stoke gold just by chance thanks to their OS deal with IBM. Yeah, the more they grown the more they have abused their power, but that wont make most of the peopl working there *evil* per see. From their point of view they're just defending their position in the market.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>And WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE?
>Judge not, lest ye be judged.

What are the people of a country supposed to do with someone who lies outright to their court system? If a judge has his hands tied because he gets nothing but lies from someone, the people of the country are left to judge the man alone.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>Ooh, ownership of illicit vehicles! You haven't got a clue what evil is if you think that qualifies.

Wow, you read the last line of what I said? Good for you!

There's a lot more there if you discover your reading abilities.

>corporations and governments across the world are enslaving, torturing and killing people left and right, and you Slashwanks get worked up about things like "illicit vehicles" and not being nice to those poor little Netscape millionaires.

There are many shades of grey to the word evil. You will learn that when you grow up.

>Slashdotters would be pathetic if they weren't so funny. Thankfully those of us who can actually think don't take Slashdot rants seriously.

Thankfully, those of us who think for ourselves understand the way the world works. You will discover this the first time you're screwed over on thousands or millions of dollars. You will discover that what Bill Gates does is no different than a spouse that marries only for the alimony, but gives half of it away to a charity to defray taxes and pressure from the neighbours. Evil and rotten to the core, even if it is a grey shade of evil.

Re:Cost of publicity

[swillden]

Bill Gates himself has done plenty of things purely out of good will. His charity donations are interesting to me, in that he donates to causes like disease research -- rather than following the tradition of many philanthropists of yesteryear, donating mostly to public works which are subsequently named after them (I'm sure he does this too, but I believe the main focus is on international health).

<paranoia type=irrational extent=insane> Yeah, but what you don't realize is that it's all part of his evil master plan... You see, Gates has realized that sick people and dead people don't buy as much software as healthy people. He sees the global population as the obvious limit to his conquest, and that constraint chafes (well, he hopes not, which is why he also invests in SETI, but be real -- aliens might not be as easy to dupe with crappy software). So, he's seeking to eliminate factors that might reduce the Microsoft-serving, software-buying population...

Let's all just hope he doesn't discover a way to sell software to viruses... </paranoia>

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>>He formed Microsoft with the intent to break the law
>I dislike MS for their business tactics and bullying just like everyone else, but, jezz, come on, this is just moronic...

You are dispelling the previous past of Microsoft. Let's look at what has happened between Internet Explorer and DOS.

- Alleged intent to monopolize the desktop network market by destroying Novell
- Alleged intent to monopolize the word processor market by destroying Wordperfect
- Criminal intent to monopolize the DOS market by destroying DR-DOS (not alleged -- proven)
- Alleged intent to monopolize the spreadsheet market by destroying Lotus

Yes, in many of these cases these companies made their own poor decisions, but it can be shown that Microsoft has stepped all over many of these companies just like all monopolies do. In fact, IIRC, Microsoft has lost in lawsuits to the effect of them having driven people out of business by using Antitrust powers.

>but that wont make most of the peopl working there *evil* per see

Yes. That's why I blame it squarely on the man founding the company, and directing the company through most of these actions: Bill Gates. The people working under him were nothing but pawns (well, except for Steve Ballmer, who seems to be following the footsteps of Bill Gates perfectly).

>From their point of view they're just defending their position in the market.

So's any other company, but you don't see Sony TVs popping up error messages because they're hooked into RCA VCRs, do you? Things like that are Antritrust, and illegal for a very good reason. And most companies aren't silly/big enough to feel comfortable stepping over that line, unlike Microsoft, who do it on a consistent basis, with a straight face.

Re:Cost of publicity

[fredrik70]

OK, I know about the DR-DOS thing,which was a nasty one. But how did MS destroy Wordperfect? From what I remember, Wordperfect didn't come out in a win version until word already had a quite large following - thus they missed the boat. Novell went and screwed themselves up fairly good, MS FUD did pretty much the rest (mind you Novell is getting better again).
I'm not saying that I don't believe MS is a monopoly, quite the opposite, I they got broken up according to the original deal.
THisg is what I want to say is that I doubt MS had all this in mind in the 80's while it still was fairly small. These tactics has come now later (around win 3.11). No, I don't think BillG is an evil man (think hussein, stalin, hitler, etc, etc), but I do think power corrupts and skews your vision. Yeah, they do shitty things in business but that doesn't mean they can have a heart to help people in other areas.

Re:Cost of publicity

[mpe]

Bill Gates lies to judges, and you think he is not an evil man? He had more than enough opportunity to plead the fifth, but instead chose to repeatedly commit perjury even after being warned. He deserves to rot in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass penetentary for a week for that alone.

The difference is that if a regular person gets caught lying in court they are likely to wind up in jail. It's called being in "Contempt of Court". Since he was appearing on behalf of Microsoft Corporation he probably couldn't have self incriminated William H. Gates the Third anyway.

You know who else tends to lie constantly and through their teeth in court? A Mobster.

There appears to be a legal loophole. Where things are handled differently if a mobster sets up a business (even an entirely legitimate one) and if something starts out as a legitimate business then starts behaving like one run by mobsters.

Re:Cost of publicity

[mpe]

Interesting that you mention this, because i was thinking the same thing. Seems as though public image isn't worth much to Microsoft (albeit this story isn't on the eleven o'clock news).

Image matters a lot when your business is in competition or there is a market which can reasonably expand. Having a good image can attract customers, having a bad image can drive customers to your competitors.
Microsoft is however it the situation of being a monopoly in a market which is close to saturation in quite a few parts of the world.

I work at a chain of bookstores that is in similar standing with Barnes and Noble, and we'll do just about anything for the image of the company, even if that means taking a loss on some transactions to give customers a good impression of the company (in turn keeping them loyal to us)

Your business is a competitive one, where your customers could easily go elsewhere in order to get exactly the same products they get from you.

Re:Cost of publicity

[mpe]

Yup. It's all for the bottom line. They won't give up ONE...RED...CENT*... unless it increases their profits.

Microsoft have put themselves in a position where they have to make profit which increases at an increasing rate in order to retain their stock market valuation.

Pretty abominable, really, but the stockholders pretty much force this on them.

It's probably at least as much the fault of stock traders, compounded by Microsoft paying employees in stock options. Most likely the price quoted on Nasdaq has nothing at all to do with the amount a stock certificate says the holder has invested in Microsoft Corporation.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>But how did MS destroy Wordperfect? From what I remember, Wordperfect didn't come out in a win version until word already had a quite large following - thus they missed the boat. Novell went and screwed themselves up fairly good, MS FUD did pretty much the rest (mind you Novell is getting better again).

With wordperfect and lotus there's strong arguments that they killed themselves and that MS were simply the vultures that fed off their dead carcass, so to speak. These two are a thorny issue that is difficult to debate since I don't think either company predsient has really spoken about the truth of their companies being bought up by M$.

However, with Novell, I've seen the ex-CEO (or is it president? I forget) explain that Microsoft basically told them that they were going to put them out of the Netware business in some way (windows XP has pretty much sealed that deal). This might not be bad when you first look at it, but normal business strategy isn't to focus on putting others out of business -- it's usually to focus on offering something good enough that you get the maximum business. Other companies going out of business should simply be a side effect of that, not a goal.

>No, I don't think BillG is an evil man (think hussein, stalin, hitler, etc, etc), but I do think power corrupts and skews your vision.

I guess the whole basis of my argument is there's many shades of evil. Someone who steals from the penny jar of a homeless man, for example, in my book is evil, even if they give 10x that money to a homeless shelter.

It's all shades of grey, and all of us are evil to some point (at least according to Freud & Jung). The difference is there's a line in between evil and good. Microsoft + Bill Gates are on the evil side in their corporate dealings, but unlike Stalin et al. Microsoft + Bill Gates can still redeem themselves to the world, since they aren't particularly horrible people, just not particularly nice much of the time. Sort of like how I'd no longer consider the man stealing from the homeless person evil if he'd just give back the money he took without whining.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

The MS/DOJ lawsuit is about illegally *maintaining* a monopoly, and concerns events in the mid-late 1990s, after Gates was already a multi-billionaire. Also, the accusations involve unfair tactics towards a competitor by giving software away, not 'stealing' anything from consumers/the public.

Mind you, I doubt a rational comments will have any impact on what is clearly an emotional issue to you. I really pity people like you, who are so filled with hatred (and probably jealousy) for something or someone who doesn't even know (or care) they exist.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

Thankfully, those of us who think for ourselves understand the way the world works.

Sure you do, mate. Honestly, you Slashdotters are like a joke to normal people, in the same vein as the 'black helicopter' brigade who are convinced the UN are secretly running everyting.

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>Sure you do, mate. Honestly, you Slashdotters are like a joke to normal people, in the same vein as the 'black helicopter' brigade who are convinced the UN are secretly running everyting.

Uhuh. Let's see... you're so paranoid you won't set up a User ID and you're calling me a "Black Helicoper" believer.

Who's the nut now?

Re:Cost of publicity

[shepd]

>The MS/DOJ lawsuit is about illegally *maintaining* a monopoly, and concerns events in the mid-late 1990s, after Gates was already a multi-billionaire. Also, the accusations involve unfair tactics towards a competitor by giving software away, not 'stealing' anything from consumers/the public.

You only know about the near-term past? Read a little and there are many more Antitrust lawsuits that you don't know about. They are there. Ask Caldera.

>Mind you, I doubt a rational comments will have any impact on what is clearly an emotional issue to you.

Your comment is the irrational one, mate. You make no effort to look into the history of a company. Why don't you put some effort in and turn up the dirt? Or are you so lazy I have to link it for you?

This happened _before_ (according to you) Bill Gates had his pile of cash.

>I really pity people like you, who are so filled with hatred (and probably jealousy) for something or someone who doesn't even know (or care) they exist.

Damn, you're so vapid , aren't you? Seriously, you need an education. And, since you're clearly under the age of 15, read some history before you comment. You clearly don't know the first thing about Microsoft's past.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Grizzlysmit]

Slashdotters would be pathetic if they weren't so funny. Thankfully those of us who can actually think don't take Slashdot rants seriously.

Yeah and like a gut less wonder who post as an "Anonymous Moron", can think.

Mate anyone who posts the kind of stuff like you do anonymously truely is a Coward, and a moron to boot.

If your going to post fighting words, have the guts to put your name to it, shesh what a TROLL.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Grizzlysmit]

And WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE?

That is somewhat an abuse of scripture, since christians are also told to discern, and any one with any degree of descerment can clearly see that Bill Gates is a very wicked man, as the word says; by their fruits ye shall know them.

Re:Cost of publicity

[Grizzlysmit]

Mind you, I doubt a rational comments will have any impact on what is clearly an emotional issue to you. I really pity people like you, who are so filled with hatred (and probably jealousy) for something or someone who doesn't even know (or care) they exist.

Right and your position is dispasionate, and reasonable, yeah sure and as for hatred and jealousy, are you not the same irrational and hate filled anonymous morron you has been posting vitriol all over this discussion?

come one you are aren't you.

How much Cash Assets does M$ have?

[Discoteck]

Judging from this example it would appear that the obscenely rich Beast intends to use non-profit organizations in desperately poor countries to subsidize its promotional ambitions and its sales strategy.

They could have certainly handled this better. They should have turned it into an opportunity to donate the money and get the kids on their platform. That way we wouldn't even see the article here on / . cause everyone knows we don't praise M$. :)

Re:How much Cash Assets does M$ have?

[nich37ways]

Yes we would have, except it would be along the lines of Microsoft corrupts unfortuante African Children who dont know any better.

More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[swissmonkey]

MS proposes to give some of their software in RESPONSE to a demand.

It is perfectly their right to give whatever they want to give, like you and me.

For one reason or another, they didn't give everything the school needs.

They didn't propose to donate, they were ASKED to donate, and they gave something, but obviously, some people don't like it when they don't get everything for free.

Slashdot is definitely becoming less and less interesting, more and more of the articles found here are either duplicates or stupid MS bashing, and that's really sad, this site could be so much more than a message board for MS haters.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Sancho]

The donation was for a usability aspect. The school couldn't afford what they were asking for. Rather than donate the OS, Microsoft chose to donate the office suite, meaning the school would have to buy the OS anyway. Yes, Microsoft didn't have to donate anything, but the fact that they were offering smething fundamentally useless to the school (they couldn't afford to run the software) shows something.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

MS deserves bashing as a recognized illegal monopoly. And a pity this is not understood by mainstream press...

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[NineNine]

Yeah, it shows that they don't want to waste money. That's probably why they're the most profitable company in the US now, and are still hiring while every other company is firing. People ask me for donations from my business. If I can't afford it, I give 'em a 25% off coupon. Same thing. What does that "say"?

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[sulli]

It says you give porn to charity?

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Mitreya]

NO, the previous article (Common Criteria Certification) was stupid Microsoft bashing. This looks like justified bashing... PR nightmare and such.

As much as I don't like unneccesary jabs at MS, this does not imply that all complaints about it are baseless.

Didn't they offer free software just to capture the market somewhere in US? Did they Namibia can afford more? (not to mention the offer to provide the software platform at some unknown Research&Development (!!) cost)

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[croftj]

You can always choose to stop reading slashdot. Just like it is MS choice to donate and what to donate. It is your choice to read. Go read www.msn.com if you want to hear what is happening in the real world!

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Blue Stone]

"It is perfectly their right to give whatever they want to give, like you and me."

There is, however, a difference between altruism (where one gives without thought of self-gain) and using someone elses need as an oppurtunity for personal gain, which is what the billion-dollar Microsoft was doing.
Considering their wealth, and the African organisations poverty, what it says about Microsoft is not especially good.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[NineNine]

No, dumbass... I've got another business! But actually, have you seen how much porn I give away? Jesus, I haven't checked recently, but it should be up to somewhere around 250,000 pictures! I'm a fucking saint. :)

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Sancho]

It says you're too cheap or just unable to give them a donation. You're giving them something, but in order to use it they have to buy your product anyway. Basically you're giving them nothing. Says the same thing.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[cranos]

Now theres a concept - OSP - Open Source Porn.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[swissmonkey]

Another company could have given the OS, Acer could have given the OS with the computer,...

Actually MS could even have given the OS, problem is:

SchoolNet has asked MS to cover the cost of the Windows XP Pro OEM given with the Acer computer.

Which is quite different than asking MS for a free OS.

In this case, MS would have had to pay Acer 9'000$ for its own product !

Now it's not hard to guess why MS said no.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[fordgj]

Schools ALWAYS need to ask for donations. They either apply for a donation or write a grant. This was a case of the former, but a twisted one. Read the open letter. They refer to microsoft's 'pos facto' decision to occlude the Windows license.

Moreover isn't there any such thing as morality? You're comment makes schools look like your common beggar. If computers are donated, they're not going to just go out and buy a forty of Old English. Is there a good reason that Microsoft can't just donate the hardware?

MS does this all the time, and it is a truly singular stance. Your argument states what the CAN do. But isn't it the DUTY of the rest of us to play watchdog, to call out the corporations for such heinous actions.

It shames me as an American that my countrymen go to the poor of this world, hand them a dollar and then steal their clothes. That is what MS is doing here.

Fortuantely I can find consolation in the works of others. I work at an elementary school in seattle and we recently needed to surplus some old macs that we have and can't use (too expensive for us to fix, we don't have the manpower to do it ourselves). Yet, we are donating many of them and a local group is going to harvest parts and fix them up and then ship them off to Africa. There are no strings attached. Oh, and as for software, they can download Mac OS 7.5.5 free and then install the free Nisus Writer or install mkLinux.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

THAT'S the American way! (in Homer-like voice)

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh Jebaz Christ Microsoft lover!

If you had literally BILLIONS of dollars, do you even have a clue just how much money that is?!?! And someone reaches out and asks for help... You ask THEM for money? Jesus... WTF?

If I won like 100 bucks in the lottery and walked down the street and some guy needed like 2 bucks for a train ticket, I sure as hell wouldn't ask him to buy me something for like 15 bucks in order for me to somehow justify being a nice guy and giving the guy a break with my newfound wealth. Anyone who knows me I am not one to say no to give away money for no reason. What does Microsoft need all that dough for? Other people are in dire need of help and they just sit there. I dont get it. Once I have the things I need I'd be fine with being generous. If MS has BILLIONS why dont they just give away like a "a petty mill" to for example this schooling project and gain some positive PR for once?!

Idiots!!!

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

If MS were to do this for this small nation then they were be obligated or pressured to do this for every small country/school/business/strip club or whatever.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[nathanh]

Slashdot is definitely becoming less and less interesting, more and more of the articles found here are either duplicates or stupid MS bashing, and that's really sad, this site could be so much more than a message board for MS haters.

So why don't you talk about the story instead of launching into yet another tiresome soapbox rant about Microsoft vs Slashdot. You're as much to blame for the "decline of Slashdot" as are all the knee-jerk Microsoft haters.

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

While your point about /. is interesting, your point about what was requested and what was offered is incorrect. SchoolNet Namibia has never been interested in using Microsoft, but was willing to allow and later support Microsoft in demonstrating Microsoft's terminal server environment at a limited number of pilot schools. The only reason they were willing to do this was in exhange for the hardware Microsoft led them to believe they would offer. SchoolNet already has a working Linux-based terminal server solution. Why would they mix platforms and create a support problem for themselves if not in exchange for something more than just another software headache?

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

I know ... but you must admit it's an amusing concept!

Re:More bullshit from the Register & Slashdot

[Zontar The Mindless]

> If I can't afford it, I give 'em a 25% off coupon. Same thing. What does that "say"?

Hmmm... that you're selling porn to Namibian schoolkids at 75% of list?

news headline:

[duplo]

Why on earth does everybody preach about how 'free' linux is, when MS is just as free. How many non-aol/dell/compaq customers actually purchase MS software - the answer is just about zero.

So why dont the Namibia guys do this ?? Its not like MS is going to sue them or anything, just imagine the news headlines - "MS sues poor african schools for not paying licensing fees after donating computers to them"

now that would be funny.

Re:news headline:

[chemmathguy]

Well, drug companies did get pissed at poor sick africans that didn't have ten gazillion dollars to pay for the anti-HIV drugs. I personally think MS is just as ruthless.

Re:news headline:

[Anonymous Coward]

I think in this case the fear is donating tonnes of anti-HIV drugs to Africa, when their often corrupt leaders then take into their possession, and sell back to the US or EU, rather than getting it to the people who need it.

It is right up there with regioned DVDs when you think about it.

I received a similar offer recently...

[Zen Programmer]

Microsoft recently offered to give me a free Xbox. My first response was "Sweet!" But I knew there had to be catch, so I asked the MS Rep what strings were attached. "None whatsoever," he replied, "all you have to do is pay for it."

Re:I received a similar offer recently...

[CptNoSkill]

Actually something similar would be:
Microsoft would give you a free Game, all you had to do was buy the xbox to play it on.

(See they were getting Office, but had to pay for windows, so ... never mind.. it's only karma...)

Re:I received a similar offer recently...

[Zen Programmer]

Who said I was trying similar? I don't remember anything that said I had to be similar. Oh, so that's what I've been missing all along! All posts are supposed to be similar. Thanks for letting me know.

Next time I tell the story, I'll be sure to make sure it is more similar to the topic I'm relating it to.

(See I wasn't trying to metaphorically satirize the post verbatim, so ... never mind.. it's only karma...)

Re:I received a similar offer recently...

[Alsee]

Who said I was trying similar?

Well, lets go back to the post and start at the top.

I received a similar offer recently... (Score:5, Funny)
by Zen Programmer

-

Where can I send a check?

[kbielefe]

This article made me want to send money to Nambia right now. How much would each slashdotter have to send to equal Microsoft's $2000 (if you ignore the $9000 debit for OS licenses)?

Re:Where can I send a check?

[Ivop]

Send them money to do what? Run windows? I'd rather send them one of my spare old Pentium machines to make it one of their workstations running Linux and OpenOffice. Imagine a beowulf cluster of spare pentium machines of all slashdotters. Seriously, if all slashdotters donated their 486's or P200's or whatever to the SchoolNet project... (!)

Re:Where can I send a check?

[ottffssent]

How much would each slashdotter have to send...

Judging by your Slashdot ID, about 0.3 cents.

Re:Where can I send a check?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you might want to hold off on writing that check until you learn to spell the country's name.

Re:Where can I send a check?

[dsoltesz]

I'm thinking: start a fund here, buy a pile o' boxen, have a special "Truly Free Computers for Namibia" installfest, and ship them over.

Re:Where can I send a check?

[Kombat]

Before you get too carried away, have you considered donating your old computers and (much more importantly) your time to a needy school in your own damn country?

Ah sure, a few slashdotters get all riled up and temporarily motivated to do something good in standard niche-bandwagon style, but it doesn't even occur to them that their neighbors have been doing good for their own people right under their noses, and could really use their help. How trendy, in a non-conformist, tatoo-and-piercing sort of way.

$2000 of MS Ofice? Did I read that right?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoop-dee-doo.

With MS's accounting, and counting shipping and insurance costs, that would amount to what? One stinking shrink-wrapped retail box?

And did I really read posts defending MS over this? That's got to be an astroturfing turd-brain.

This is just plain silly.

[Montreal Geek]

If M$ had managed to get their heads out of their butts long enough to think, this could have in fact been a Bad Thing for Linux and friends.

You see, they *could* have given the hardware and software. The cost to M$ would have been actually neglectable and they would still have achieved their real goals of locking down a poor country in their web for the future.

The scary part is that if they had done that, then, only us geeks would have been able to see the deception; the mass media would have played along (untwittingly or not) with the marketroids' plan and portrayed M$ as a savior of struggling countries whilst ignoring the dire long-term consequences.

Again, M$ stupitidy manages to cancel out M$ evil, and the world is a bit safer for it.

-- MG

Re:This is just plain silly.

[TheKey]

It's MS, by the way, not M$. Just saw that typo, thought I might correct it.

Regards,
Sean

Re:This is just plain silly.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Whoa there!

Next time you get it into your head to state extremely painful truths, wait til I have some mod points so that I can protect you from crackmoderation (-1, Troll).

Re:This is just plain silly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Donating hardware means losing money, while donating software (printed CDs) only cost them a few bucks and they get to write it off their taxes. So they actually make money by donating software.

Guess what they want to donate?

In addition, they always donate with strings attached, that you have to use only MS products. This isn't donation, it's poison.

Re:This is just plain silly.

[Chris Johnson]

Since when is Microsoft really, blatantly stupid? I think it's more likely that they haven't got the money they say they have, or that their projected costs are so high that they are forced to watch every penny.

Re:This is just plain silly.

[vidarh]

So, what you're saying is that it's more likely that they're lying to the SEC, and comitting federal offenses by falsifying their accounts and auditors statements? If you are, then I'm sure the SEC and the FBI would love to hear more about your theories. If you aren't, then you better believe that Microsoft have upwards of 40 billion USD cash or cash equivalents.

Re:This is just plain silly.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry about this, the Linux community in Namibia (don't you dare forget the first "i") is alive and thriving. As Komen's letter should show, SchoolNet/Namibia and its supporters are no "local yokels".

Re:This is just plain silly.

[Chris Johnson]

As a matter of fact, YES, I do think it is more likely that Microsoft are lying to the SEC than it is that they're stupid.

I'd better believe? Why? They don't ACT like they have 40 billion dollars.

Re:This is just plain silly.

[vidarh]

How do you think a company that have 40 billion dollars should act? Surely they wouldn't be giving away money left and right. If anything, the more devious, cynical and underhanded a company is, the more likely the company would be to have 40 billion, provided they also have the marketing skill to appear like great benevolent innovators.

Try asking the American public what they think about Microsoft and Bill Gates, and see the value of good marketing.

Donate fondu sets instead

[Alien Being]

+1 obscure?

Re:Donate fondu sets instead

[chip]

They've already got all the Sterno they need
from when the Germans were there.

Psssst!

[dieMSdie]

Pssst! Hey, kid... c'mere!
Here, kid... have some of this...

No, I can't afford an MS habit.

Awww, c'mon kid, the first hits free!

Re:Psssst!

[Galahad2]

Do you mean to imply that Windows is addictive? I think imperical evidence pretty much obliterates that notion. Perhaps something like, "Hey man, want me to punch you in the face? The first one is free!" would be more accurate.

Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[SexyKellyOsbourne]

They may oppose Microsoft, but the government of Namibia is gearing up to be another Robert Mugabe administration -- plunging the entire country and African economy into chaos by committing ethnic cleansing against the white minority.

Don't be fooled by their opposition to Microsoft: the black government are nothing but racist, communist thieves who could care less about open source.

More on their white hitlist can be read here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C3-4620 88%2C00.html

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[ceejayoz]

communist thieves who could care less about open source

First off, "communist thieves" is an oxymoron, and communists would likely strongly support open source.

A more accurate assessment of the Namibian government would be "thugs giving land and money to their cronies and starving the rest".

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Ivop]

I guess you only read the first half of the article. I quote: "But the Herero and Nama peoples from the arid central and southern regions mounted a rebellion against the colonial authorities in 1904. Tens of thousands of the rebels were massacred and stripped of their lands. Those who were left were rounded up into native reserves and used as pools of cheap labour for German colonial farmers. About 3,500 white commercial farmers own around 30 million hectares of farmland, most of which is semi-arid and used for cattle ranching and trophy hunting for wealthy European and American tourists." I can imagine they want to get rid of those so called white farmers. Oh, and nowhere can be read they are genocidal, i.e. killing the white farmers. They just take their land and don't pay enough money (not enough for those white supremists anyway). [damn, I hate it when Opera doesn't interpret my CR/LF's]

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[s-orbital]

I hate to say it, but ours was also. (Native Americans, etc.) Still, doesn't mean its right. But I think that our nation owes an appology.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[timeOday]

A more accurate assessment of the Namibian government would be "thugs giving land and money to their cronies and starving the rest".

That's a nice practical definition of communism right there.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>First off, "communist thieves" is an oxymoron

Nope. Communist thieves steal from businesses, and steal from the intelligent by ensuring they don't make enough money.

>and communists would likely strongly support open source.

Nope -- at least if you're talking about the GPL as in open source. The GPL was specifically made business friendly -- it's just that a lot of stupid businesses can't wrap their minds around just how easy it is to make money using the GPL.

Even open source in general isn't a communist idea. Few open source licenses reuiqre you to redistribute your patches (including the GPL). This would be a basic requirement for a communist development model.

I think the word you want to use is "socialism". The difference is quite a lot...

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[rueba]

The article you posted does not support your assertion.

What is being proposed is forcible redistribution of land from white farmers to black farmers with compensation being paid to the white farmers.

Granted, this may or may not be a bad idea, but it hardly amounts to "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide."

Neither does it amount to communism, as in that system all the land would be owned collectively. They are proposing to settle individual families onto this land. Hence: not communism.

Lastly, you are trying to ignore the historical context of how this land was obtained. Do you really expect the native black farmers to ignore how all the fertile land was monopolized by Europeans at the beginning of the last century?
I'd say they are being a lot nicer than the Germans were when they were taking the land.

Your post is inflammatory and just plain wrong.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Shelled]

..."communist thieves" is an oxymoron...

I would just love to hear an explanation of that one.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Napalm Africa and be done with it!

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[PhxBlue]

Somewhat offtopic, I know. . . but I think you've confused "oxymoron" with "redundant."

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Samrobb]

First off, "communist thieves" is an oxymoron...

Really? I just thought it was redundant.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[geekoid]

so no communist could ever steal?
interesting.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

"I can imagine they want to get rid of those so called white farmers. "

Well, if that is the case then why we don't get rid of the Germans altogether.
After all they were guilty of genocide.
The bottom line is that the only hope of any sort of survival for this country is to keep white farmers around.
Otherwise they will end up like Zambia - going from major food producer to famine in just a couple of years.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

True.
We can only laugh watching their economy going down to hell.
I will enjoy that.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, to find joy and laughter in the suffering of others. Your ethical values do shine just shy of the glorious splendor that is a pile of dog shit.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[cruachan]

You've read Marx and Engels?

No?

Thought not.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, right, all those guys actually running profitable software companies are so much stupider than you. They just don't understand they can make money with the GPL. Neither do the people running those loss-making GPL-software firms. They must be incredibly stupid to have spent so much time and VC money on GPL software, only to still be losing money.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[JohnFluxx]

"steal from the intelligent by ensuring they don't make enough money"

Enough money for what?

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[danro]

No, since he (according to the communist manifesto) doesn't believe in private property he couldn't steal.
In a true communism (not that any ever has existed) everything is owned by the community. Thus everything is already yours (and everyone elses too) and can't be stolen.

Well ,thats the idea anyway. Noone has been able to implement it since it's, well... human nature to be a greedy sod and wanting more than your neighbor and all that.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you paid attention to what happened with communism after Marx and Engels?

No

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose your parent should've emphasized practical. Marxism is purely theoretical, and has never once been implemented successfully on a national scale. As Yogi Bera once said, "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they ain't".

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, Namibia has ample experience with genocidal racists. I suggest the author of this post look into the German Herero war of the early 20th century where the Germans exterminated over 80% of the Herero population, held others in concentration camps, and sent a large percentage of the remaining numbers into exile. After WWI, the Namibians then had the pleasure of playing host to the Afrikaaners and their beloved, brutal and racist apartheid system. That this 12-year old imperfect yet democratic government has managed to hold off going down Zimbabwe's path despite ignorant European's like you egging them on is quite remarkable. In fact, in the past few days, the democratic government of Namibia was forced to deploy its troops to protect a white farm. The irony of this situation is not lost on anybody here (white or black). Obviously, you are entirely too short sighted to understand this. Unfortunately, it is entirely too easy for idiots such as yourself to draw upon latent racist concepts perpetuated by our poor international media. Your buzz phrase simply gives evidence to this...it's too easy for people to equate an African government with a whole host of monikers. That you choose racist, though, is doubly ironic. When is the last time you looked in the mirror? Similarly, when is the last time a white Namibian was killed by this government or any of its employees? Is this not a basic prerequisite for genocide? Your post lacks understanding, historical context, facts, and class.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>Enough money for what?

Compensation for the time and money spent gaining the intelligence to be more than a burger flipper.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>Yeah, right, all those guys actually running profitable software companies are so much stupider than you.

Yeah. That's why they went out of business, you know. Most software companies in the last few years have gone out of business. I'm sorry if that makes your job outlook bleak, but it's the truth, and I can back it up with statistics if you like.

>They just don't understand they can make money with the GPL. Neither do the people running those loss-making GPL-software firms.

Spot on.

>They must be incredibly stupid to have spent so much time and VC money on GPL software, only to still be losing money.

Yes. What do you need Venture Capital for a software company for? Two, you can't use the GPL to be a software company. That's not it's intent.

The intent of the GPL is to redefine software companies into service companies. Your service is to install your software on the company's boxes, to sell precompiled binaries, and to sell customized upgrades and improvements to software. This was how software companies functioned previous to Bill Gates' open letter, and these software companies worked on far more than the wing and a prayer of today's software companies. And, this is how every single other business on earth that deals with commodities functions. Unfortunately, software companies have failed to realise that their software is nothing more than a commodity nut protected by a proprietary thread. The fact is in the software business you can and will be replaced at a whim. Your only protection against this is to stop believing you have the special thread that wins them all. The moment software companies get a clue and stop selling their thread rather than their product and service will be the moment the software industry stabilizes. And the GPL is there to make this happen.

The business ideal of GPL software is _not_ for you to create a piece of software and give it away and just expect money to happen. That's inane and incorrect business strategy.

Ask RMS sometime. Look at the GNU website. Ask me for business strategy examples. You'll find just how correct I am.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[forkboy]

Perhaps you mean "time and money spent gaining the EDUCATION to be more than a burger flipper."

In a communist system, having a non-menial position is its own reward. Given equal pay for all cases, would you rather flip burgers, dig ditches, or sit in a nice comfy chair and write programs?

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>Given equal pay for all cases, would you rather flip burgers, dig ditches, or sit in a nice comfy chair and write programs?

After working in an office, I'd rather dig ditches for sure. Burger flipping has idiots annoying you as well, but with ditch digging you get well paid, and to a certain degree, you get to do the job you want.

Didn't expect that, did you?

Neither did Karl Marx.

Some jobs just _suck_ but require an education. I'm thinking nuclear power plant technician/technologist here. There's thousands more (being a manager of a dying company, photocopier technician, etc, etc).

Money is the best compensation that we've found, since it equally motivates people. What motivates one person to program can be dimished by simply forcing them to wear a straight-jacket while programming, which is what most companies (and, very largely, communist nations) do.

In the end, freedom and money are the most equal drivers for people to do things, and a communist system usually lacks both.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Here cums Shepd Shitflake,
Dressed in a cum-white gown,
Tap, tap, tappin' at your anushole,
To tell you he's in town.

Here comes Shepd Shitflake,
Soon you will hear him say,
"Cum out ev'ryone and play with me,
My dick needs ass today"

"If you want to stretch some asshole,
I'll help you cum one, two, three.
If you wanna take an ass ride,
The ride's on me."

Here cums Shepd Shitflake,
Look at him goin' down,
Bringing joy to ev'ry man and boy,
Shepd's cum to town.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[JohnFluxx]

I didn't mean "why do u deserve the money more" but rather "What do you need more money than everyone else for?"

You don't gain intelligence - you are born with it.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Awesome... a customized shepd bashing jingle.

I can't stand shepd. He just posts a bunch of shit in the message boards trying to up his post tally. GET SOME REAL FRIENDS DUDE!

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

You have WAY too much time on your hands.

But, you've got a point.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>I can't stand shepd. He just posts a bunch of shit in the message boards trying to up his post tally.

You know, if you had an account like most people, you could simply put me on your foes list.

Instead you choose to take the defeatist method and do nothing. Who exactly is the stupid one here?

Another one for my Stalking thread. You really are busy tonite, aren't you? Interesting how all these posts happen at the same time... lose the proxies and anonymous status and post like a man, why don't you?

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>I didn't mean "why do u deserve the money more" but rather "What do you need more money than everyone else for?"

Okay. Well, here is my (simple) explanation: The extra money serves as a reason to further yourself and (indirectly) society. It's a need and not a want because it's been my experience that people respond in the best way to a problem when they're confronted with a big wad of green.

>You don't gain intelligence - you are born with it.

I have to disagree with this one. Sorry.

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[JohnFluxx]

Its hard to tell about intelligence, but you have to agree that genetics certain does help/hinder.

Perhaps there are ways to motivate people other than money. Linux develops quite well, not because of money, but, according to esr, ego (which is as good a reasoning as any).

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone with mod points should mod down this guys comments! Stop his obsessive posting! Us the mod 'overrated' to stay out of metamod. With enough downmods he will only be able to post twice a day...

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

>>Yeah, right, all those guys actually running
> profitable software companies are so much
> stupider than you.
>
> Yeah. That's why they went out of business,
> you know.

Err... all the profitable software companies went out of business? What are you on about again? Are you trying to make a point or just spouting incoherent drivel for the sake of it?

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you're obsessive. Do you stay up all night just to stalk me?

See a doctor or something man. You're a danger to society!

Re:Namibia's government == GENOCIDAL RACISTS

[shepd]

>all the profitable software companies went out of business?

I don't know, did they?

>What are you on about again?

The .bomb

What you are on about that all the companies are out of business again? Huh? You've totally lost me!

>Are you trying to make a point or just spouting incoherent drivel for the sake of it?

Look at the Pot calling the Kettle black. You think all the profitable software companies are out of business and you're calling me incoherent?

You've lost it. Get a grip.

Good thing to do....

[jsimon12]

You know what would be a good thing to do, it would be to get the Slashdot community together and help get these people some laptops, without continued community support these guys might fall to Microsoft in the end or just fall period. Open Source is about everyone giving a little, so it would only take everyone who reads this article donating a quarter or a piece of hardware. Anyone with me on this?

Re:Good thing to do....

[McCart42]

Offer a paypal account and some proof that someone's actually going to follow through on the other end, and sure.

Re:Good thing to do....

[dsoltesz]

I'll help - I'll set up and manage a PayPal account or whatever's needed, and pitch in a few bucks to boot. A squad of volunteers to put together systems and install a nice linux desktop set... sounds like a MeetUp worth doing.

Re:Good thing to do....

[Anonymous Coward]

Good idea, but Paypal sucks.

Re:Namibia.. Namibia.. Nambla..

[Ivop]

That site is sick! Thijs, age 11, is having a relationship with an adult??? I mean, age 16 and 19 might be tolerable, but this site clearly promotes relationships with minors. Just look at those pictures. That guy is what, 45? I hope you burn in hell (though I don't believe in hell, but it should be there, just for you sick fucks).

More bullshit from a kneejerker

[MacAndrew]

If MS didn't want to give anything -- not even the paltry lunch money asked for -- they should have offered nothing, rather than insult the intelligence of the Namibians. But this was NOT a token offer; MS clearly hoped to gain bragging rights for converting these school districts to their side.

Perhaps MS thought there will be no PR repercussions from being duplicitous -- who the heck cares what happens to Namibians? Oh yeah, slashdotters among others.

This is not about MS's freedom to choose whether to be charitable. It is about their obligation to deal fairly. No matter how much or little MS has been "bashed" elsewhere, they dropped the ball here and should be called on it. Even by their defenders.

Re:More bullshit from a kneejerker

[NineNine]

Deal fairly? The gave 'em a big fucking discount. You don't get to be a huge company by giving away all of your shit for free. It doesn't happen. I say fuck the Namibians. Give me the $2000 in free MS Office licensing. I'll take it.

Jesus, you OSS zealots are pathetic. If it's not free, then it's evil. What a load of naive, childish bullshit. Grow up. When you're not living off of your parents, $2000 is a lot of fucking money.

Re:More bullshit from a kneejerker

[TheKey]

.. yes, and so is the $9000 that they would have to spend to buy Windows to even use the $2000 worth of software.

Re:More bullshit from a kneejerker

[Knytefall]

Per capita income of 96% of Nambia: $85.

No, it's naive for MS (and you) to think the country could afford the software -- after all things like feeding your kids and education are a little more important than a shiny new wordprocessor with an oh-so-happy clippy piece of doodoo, wouldn't you say?

24% urban unemployment; 14% in rural areas.
$1755 per capita income; however 96% of the population earn $85.

That means each copy of office would only take as long for a Nambian to pay for as a Westerner would pay for house.

They could pay for it sooner, but CDs aren't quite as sustaning as food.

See more stats here

No one is saying that only free software is good -- but dammit think!

Re:More bullshit from a kneejerker

[The Bungi]

You need to stop believeing your own fucking bullshit, d00d.

Re:More bullshit from a kneejerker

[NineNine]

Nobody said they had to buy the software. How much money is in the country is completely irrelevant. Most people do not sell their products on a sliding scale. Either you can afford it or you can't. What MS did was go out of their way to say that they could shave $2000 off of a $11000 package. Pretty fucking generous if you ask me. If someone walks into my shop and says that they can't afford something, but would really like it, I'd say tough shit. I've got bills to pay.

Re:More bullshit from a kneejerker

[Anonymous Coward]

Normally I'd agree with you, but it was MS who approached schoolnet, offering to "donate" their services and superior products in exchange for the PR benefits.

If SchoolNet had approached MS, then, yes, I'd say fuck em as well, but that isn't what happened.

Sounds like a good place to deploy Solo computers

[martintt]

This sounds like a good market for the

Solo computer

a neat ARM powered machine that used 8.5 watts all in (including monitor) and can be solar powered.
Instead of 500ish watts for a standard desktop.

No I don't work for ARM I just like their kit.

It looks like the ultimate silent pc - no noise even in the power generation.
Although RISC_OS isn't open source it is pretty solid and isn't part of the Evil Empire.

good move namibia

[GoatPigSheep]

Now lets hope the money they saved from not having to buy windows licenses goes to help starving african children. In poor countries, every penny counts, and using linux could actually save enough money to feed a village for a year.

When will MS get it??

[billmaly]

If they were to donate an OS and Office suite to every single school PC in the world, truly donate, no $trings attached...just give it away...even if it's Win95/98....Wow...imagine what the anti MS crowd would have to say then! This is not to say that such a move would be a cure all for Redmond..not by a long shot...but as a PR statement..."Sure, we're closed source, and yeah, we've kinda strong armed some folks in the past, but...we have GIVEN $XX BILLION dollars worth of OS licenses to schools and 3rd worlds. Sue me now US Government!!" Bill Gates should decide that $40 billion is enough, and that it's now time to give, truly give, away some of what they has been earned. Did they think the check from Nambia would actually be cashable? :)*SPROING!!* Of course, I may be living in a dream world!

Re:When will MS get it??

[ceejayoz]

imagine what the anti MS crowd would have to say then!

Likely the same thing they say all the time? Anti-MSism is usually a religious argument, not a logical one.

Bill Gates should decide that $40 billion is enough

He isn't CEO anymore, and even if he was, the shareholders probably wouldn't like a profit of $0.

Re:When will MS get it??

[JohnFluxx]

If they don't do it, they would get a profit of $0.

Wouldn't that cause the shareholders to be upset either way?

SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Swanktastic]

The irony of this article is that no one seems to understand what's actually going on here. Do you really think a non-profit manager would actually write such an insulting letter to a potential benefactor in response to getting turned down? OF Course not... He's simply trying to make MS look bad to increase their offer, pure and simple. Microsoft will quietly donate EVERYTHING he asks for to make this go away. And no more linux in the schools, while everyone on slashdot snorts at their own clever MS bashing comments. Bravo...

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Edmund Blackadder]

You aren't making any sence. If you want donations from someone you don't insult them. And once it has become news it will not go away.

If they were really angling for donations they would have a third party make the accusations and then claim misunderstanding, when microsoft makes a more generous offer.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Servo]

Not directly, anyway. You make them look bad, and hope they cave in to the bad publicity.

It isn't really the ethical thing to do. Just because Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, doesn't mean he is obligated to donate his money to whoever comes up and demands it. Despite what you think of Microsoft, "SchoolNet" sounds like a whiny non-profit who expects handouts spec'd to what THEY want, not to what the company doing the handing out is offering.

This is like a bum coming up to you on the street and asking for some spare change to buy food. So you throw him a buck. Well, a buck doesn't buy a meal. Most bums wouldn't throw the money back at you yelling its not enough! Why these people think they deserve more is beyond me.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not so much that they argued they deserved more. Instead, Microsoft's offer would have left them worse off than before, having to spend a lot of money to take advantage of what they'd been given -- and probably giving MS more profits than their donation cost.

So it's not like the bum with the $1 -- he doesn't have to spend $5 before he can use it.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[rreyelts]

No. This is like a homeless person walking up to Burger King and asking for a meal. Burger King responds, 'We'll give you a coupon for 50 cents off when you buy our five dollar combo meal.'

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Servo]

Ok, so how or why is BK obligated to give them anything??? Please elaborate, I don't follow how forced socialism works...

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Anonymous Coward]

Who is forcing anybody, except you, trying to force your opinion down on other people..?

You think everyone else is stupid don't you?

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[vidarh]

They're not, however if they do make an offer of 50 cents of a 5 dollar meal.

Then it's not charity, and not a genuine offer, but an insult when it's given to someone they can clearly see can't afford it. In such a case offering to give 50 cents, or even 5 cents would be more meaningful than a discount the person can't afford to take advantage off.

If they aren't prepared to give a meaningful offer that showns respect, then they could have just said "No, we can't offer you anything".

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Servo]

I never said I thought their offer was generous at all.

But I still say 1) They aren't required to give anything. and now 2) They aren't required to show them respect!

I detest Microsoft just as much as the next Slashdotter, but I really think this is just an attempt to make them look like the villian because the non-profit isn't getting what it wants.

Look at it from this perspective:

The have a working solution using Linux.
They need additional hardware to complete the project.
They want Windows and all the apps they can get.

So whats wrong with the Linux solution??? Everybody is in such an uproar about why Microsoft won't give the poor bastards what they want, that nobody stops to think that why can't they use what they have, and just try to get hardware donated.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Servo]

Uh, no, just you.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[vidarh]

Microsoft aren't required to show anyone respect, but neither are anyone else.However if you don't show people respect, you have to expect people not to like it and to not show you any respect either.

As for your question, read the open letter from Schoolnet to Microsoft. Schoolnet got an offer of cheap Acer machines, but Acer's distributor was contractually bound by Microsoft to deliver the machines with Windows preloaded (presumably the same type of deal that Microsoft are no longer allowed to use in the US). When approached, Microsoft would not offer them to donate the licenses, costing about 9000 USD, but instead offered Office licenses worth about 2000 USD instead.

Schoolnet then entered into negotiations with Microsoft as they "would be happy to provide Microsoft with an opportunity to develop a potential alternative to our viable Open Source LTSP refurbished LAN and stand-alone Linux-PC solutions" (from Schoolnets letter). In other words: They'll incure 9000 USD worth of Windows license fees if they buy the Acer PC's, so they wanted to see whether they could actually get any use out of it.

However Microsoft tried stiffing them by offering the software for "free" except for some unspecified R&D costs.

Schoolnet further wrote: " I have, from the very beginning made it VERY clear that SchoolNet has NO desire to REPLACE Linux with Microsoft, but would be happy to accommodate an AFFORDABLE Microsoft diskless refurbished thin-client LAN alternative for potential use in areas where Microsoft distributors would be able to provide technical support to such proprietary Microsoft LAN alternatives."

It should be pretty clear that they're ready to use what they have and try to get just the hardware donated, or even to buy the hardware, but Microsoft tried to trick them into a deal they could gain a PR advantage from but that would end up being costly to Schoolnet without giving them much to show for it.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[Servo]

So why not just back away and say "No thanks"? Seriously.. MS came back with an offer, it wasn't good for their situation, so they should just walk away from it.

There are other options. Trust me. I've worked with non profits before, and there are always grant giving orgs out there, as well as computer recycling places.

The public blasting these guys did is all about PR.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[wilhelm]

The way I read it was like this:

MS: Hey, we're going to give you free software, computers, and all sorts of stuff, FREE!
SN: Sounds like a deal. Bring forth the booty!
MS: Oops, we're not going to give you the free computers, or the free OS, but we will give you this maaahhhvelous office suite for free...
SN: Sit and spin, bitches.

It sounded like they were in negotiations of some sort (probably Microsoft wanted to get the "Namibia replaces Linux with Microsoft" headlines, of course), in which Microsoft was promising all sorts of free stuff, and then they came back later and changed the deal for whatever reason. And SchoolNet called them on it.

Re:SchoolNet has Slashdot's Number for Sure

[vidarh]

The did walk away from it, but felt obliged to let people know how Microsoft had tried to use them for their PR ploy. Given the way Microsoft treated them I think that's entirely within their rights.

Actually...

[acoustix]

Actually the office software HAD to be worth more than $2,000. Most people don't realize that Microsoft makes A LOT more money selling Office than their OSes. One copy of Office Professional costs $560 (office max). (Yes I know that you get discounts when you buy in volumes)

50 laptops =

$28,000 for Office Pro
$15,000 for XP Pro OS

So actually, they were getting a better than getting the OS for free and having to buy Office.

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

But do they need office? Wouldn't something like OpenOffice be fine? Really, they should just think about what they need. Good Will stores won't take a large elephant, even if donated to them. It doesn't fit their needs. Of course, Office and Windows with some hardware would fit their needs, but the price doesn't. Anyway, good post.

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me again stress that these copies of office would cost MicroSoft next to NOTHING! No support, no documentation, just a piece of paper saying they could make so many copies, and a CD with a copy of Office. How much would this have cost Microsoft? Exactly. The letter aptly describs this as quoted.

"A big multi-national company trying to shrink the digital divide by giving the kinds of things that are purportedly easy for it to give amounts to a philanthropy properly called perverse."

Re:What a dumbshit article

[Jucius Maximus]

I agree.

Greatly disliking Microsoft is one thing, but posting blatant propaganda that looks like it was written by a 12 year old on a 'news' site is not helping anything. The best they can do is make the entire anti-Microsoft cause look like it's run by a bunch of snivelling brats addicted to counterstrike.

This is an actual line from the article: "Now imagine the disappointment of learning that accepting the 'gift' would entail outlays of money in the range of fifteen times the value of the M$ Trojan horse."

Slashdot editors: In the interest of maintaining the integrity of the slashdot community (if there's any left...) please don't post propaganda as 'news.' It erodes the value of the community. It makes us no better than Microsoft and in the end. It is counterproductive. The Register should be spanked badly for this.

Offshore programmers

[wideBlueSkies]

>>MS was giving them $2000 worth of copies of Office, but they would have been required to spend $9000 in order to buy Windows to use it!

It's offtopic but I can't help myself...

Meanwhile, that $9000 that Microsoft hopes to gain will pay the annual salaries of 2 of their programmers in India.

No wonder Bill is so frigging rich.

Nimda? No thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I don't think we need Microsoft giving away Nimda. Microsoft products have enough products without them handing out a virus with their software.

Re:Nimda? No thanks.

[_Hellfire_]

Unfortunatly Microsoft have already beaten you to the punch: some distros of the .NET framework had an (albeight inactive) infection of the Nimda worm.

After it was discovered on the CD Microsoft went into damage control and had to convince a whole bunch of people that it wasn't dangerous.

Guess Microsoft got a taste of it's own medicine when its own servers were compromised.

Re:Nimda? No thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

Quit spreading FUD. That was the Korean version of it that came out of a Korean outsourcing firm. Not the same thing.

They have around $120 billion in cash

[danny256]

and short term assets.

evidence?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have any evidence of this? I don't necessarily disagree, but I wonder whether we're just supposed to take comments like this at face value, without evidence.

No it went down like this

[K-Man]

Dear Mr. Jomen,

I am an officer at a large American software company, in charge of shipping software to our customers overseas. Unfortunately, one of these customers, a US Special Forces Commando, paid a large sum for our Office 2000 product, but passed away without naming an heir to receive this valuable software. According to company regulations, I cannot keep this software for myself, but if a suitable foreign customer (such as yourself) is found, I will be able to transfer the sale to you with no cost, in order to meet our company's stringent quarterly profit goals. If you are willing to receive this software confidentially, we will both benefit, but we must act quickly to meet our sales deadline.

All that I need from you to accomplish this sale is the presentation of your Windows 2000 licenses, as the original contract requires. If you do not possess these, I can assist you in acquiring them for a modest sum.

Yours Truly,

Mr. Ferreira
Chief Ethics Officer
Foreign Floppy Disk Desk
Microsoft Corporation

Re:$2000 of MS Ofice? Did I read that right?

[myowntrueself]

M$ were probably quoting from their own internal price lists and given the true worth of M$ Office, that $2000 worth probably amounts to several hundred shrinkwrapped boxes of Office XP professional!

MS Africa

[bayankaran]

This is probably the work of some suit in charge of Microsoft Africa trying to get a fat bonus. Dont think Mr Gates would have known this.

MS Will Get Rich Quick!

[RealBeanDip]

Just think what will happen when MS responds to the Nigerian Scam Letter asking to transfer out US152MIL!!! They'll do it, but only after Nigeria buys US200MIL in software.

Brilliant I tell you!

Beggars with attitude!

[donutello]

Wow! These people think that Microsoft didn't give up enough for the "privilege" of making a donation to them.

I wouldn't donate a cent to them either.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[mindstrm]

It's not just about that.
Microsoft wants it's foot in the door by donating Office. These people are working on a small budget, and absolutely cannot afford the infrastructure needed to even USE that software. It's hardly a "gift".

Given the amounts of money MS rolls out, if MS wanted a foot in the door in Nambibia, they could easily afford to network & outfit the entire country's school system.. THEN they would surely listen.
Maybe.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[donutello]

Yes, and I can afford to give the beggar on the street more than the quarter I'm offering too. But I don't have to and the beggar has no business EXPECTING me to give him $10 just because I can. I don't consider charity to be a privilege and if I hear a beggar insulting someone else who gave him something he's sure as hell not getting anything from me.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Anonymous Coward]

What if that "other person" deserved to be insulted?

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[donutello]

Deserved to be insulted because he didn't give the beggar as much as the beggar felt he "deserved"?

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Harinath]

These aren't beggars.

Anyway, bait-and-switch tactics are reprehensible, even when, especially when, the recepient is monetarily poor.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Zorikin]

They should be grateful for -$5,300? Did you read the letter at all past the first line?

> I should, however, stress that SchoolNet has no desire to FUND Microsoft in such an endeavour, to the tune of US$22,500 for pilot [Microsoft-driven] school hardware + US$ 9,300 for laptop MS OS, in exchange for a paltry US$2,000 worth of proprietary OFFICE PRO application software!

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[letxa2000]

But I don't have to and the beggar has no business EXPECTING me to give him $10 just because I can.

No, but if you offer to give the begger a dollar as long as he first pays you 10, the begger is free to tell you where to stuff that dollar--and probably WILL tell you to.

Good for Namibia. Poorer people can sometimes be taken advantage of, but often they are very frugal and logical when it comes to making good financial decisions because they don't have money to flush down the toilet on mistakes.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Zorikin]

-$7,300. I can do arithmetic. Really.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[dillon_rinker]

Flawed analogy. You don't stand to make any money in the future by hooking the beggar. Now, if you were a liquor store owner, then it might behoove you to pass out free booze. If someone complains that it's practically vinegar, do you look down on them for rejecting your charity? NO! You give them the good stuff. Once they're addicted, they'll take anything you have to offer.

MS is not doing this out of the goodness of their heart. MS is giving them their first hit for free (metaphorically).

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[The Phantom Buffalo]

But, do you give that beggar a quarter on the condition he give you a dollar back? That's the way the MS "donation" looks to me.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello?
But do you exspect the begger to give you $5
after you give him the quarter?
Think about it
Sure we will give you $2000 worth of office software.
What about somthing to run the software?
Like an OS?

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Anonymous Coward]

Beggars, what ?, where does it say that they "ASK" microsoft for the software, microsoft came to them and offered this "sweet deal" to them...

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[oh]

Umm, There are two ways of looking at this.

One is, you go to a begger on the street and say "Here's a tin of food, worth 20 cents, that I'll give you, but you need a can opener to be able to use it. I'll sell you a can opener for $1".

The other way is "If you buy $9000 worth of software, we'll throw in another $2000 worth of free stuff. Oh yeah, we get to tell people how nice we are for giving you an 18% discount."

If I were in business I might jump at at the 18% off, but when you have very little money to begin with, well, would you rather get the MS software, or use linux and gice computers to a few more villages?

THe other thing people have said that sounds fair to me is priorities. With the problems in most of africa, what good is Net access? I partly agree, but I think that giving Web and email to schools is a good thing. A poor subsistance farmer isn't going to improve his life if he can access the latest stock prices, suft slashdot, or download porn. If he can access long range weather forcasts, find out where he can sell his produce, and teach his children.....

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Mnemia]

Except that this donation doesn't cost Microsoft a penny more than the trivial cost of media. Schools in Namibia could never afford to buy Microsoft software anyway so it's not like Microsoft is losing anything by giving them this "gift". Even if Microsoft gave them a complete suite of Windows-equipped software including the OS for every one of those computers Microsoft would still come out ahead because of the gains in PR and goodwill for the company, and the exposure of all those kids to Microsoft's brand and products. So everyone would win because MS is getting good publicity and exposure by doing something that doesn't cost them anything but greatly benefits the public of Namibia. That's what corporate philantropy should be like.

But, Microsoft wanted more. They wanted to turn this into a sales opportunity as well and grab a chance to lock even some of the world's poorest into their exploitative upgrade cycles. Make no mistake, if these people had taken this deal, all that money would be pure profit for MS.

So, really, MS has no interest in making actual donations - they really just want to milk everyone while making it look like they are making a meaningful contribution. This "gift" was nothing more than a sleazy sales tactic and I'm glad that Nambia isn't "buying" into it.

Re: Beggars with attitude!

[Black Parrot]

> Given the amounts of money MS rolls out, if MS wanted a foot in the door in Nambibia, they could easily afford to network & outfit the entire country's school system.. THEN they would surely listen.

I don't know, I'm not sure I'd want to do business with a pusher who wouldn't give me my first fix for free.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[v8interceptor]

If Microsoft wants a foot in the door of Namibia, it could BUY Namibia.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[drunken monkey]

Sometimes people are attracted to acts of trollisms like bugs to light, so here goes...

You might want to read this paragraph from the webpage:

"I should, however, stress that SchoolNet has no desire to FUND Microsoft in such an endeavour, to the tune of US$22,500 for pilot [Microsoft-driven] school hardware + US$ 9,300 for laptop MS OS, in exchange for a paltry US$2,000 worth of proprietary OFFICE PRO application software!"

Microsoft's offer does not add up to be a gift or a donation. This is not like giving a dollar or 10 to a beggar.

narbey

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[by Steven Woston]

I'm no free software fan (there's no incentive to port J-J-J-Julius Software titles to Linux or BSD just yet), but in this case I think Microsoft has made a rather stupid offer. Using your analogy, the beggar would get your quarter, but he would have to pay $5 to buy a wallet from you to put the quarter into. Did you not read the article or are you just being stupid?

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[mpe]

Microsoft wants it's foot in the door by donating Office. These people are working on a small budget, and absolutely cannot afford the infrastructure needed to even USE that software. It's hardly a "gift".

It's where the term "white elephant" comes from. Someone would be offered a gift of an elephant by someone rich and powerful, but would be faced with either losing face by refusing or going bankrupt trying to feed the animal.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Imperial Tacohead]

It's a strange day when a troll (not just a troll, but a troll who's doing an impression of a more classic troll) comes out and makes a reasonable argument in opposition to some idiot making a REAL troll-like argument with a straight face.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[mpe]

They wanted to turn this into a sales opportunity as well and grab a chance to lock even some of the world's poorest into their exploitative upgrade cycles. Make no mistake, if these people had taken this deal, all that money would be pure profit for MS.

Namibia is in considerably better shape than many other African countries.
The thing is that to poor countries even the lowest rung on Microsoft's upgrade ladder is out of reach so they never get started in the first place. Unlike in richer counties where people might have spent a lot getting used to Microsoft before they get hit by an upgrade they can't really afford.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[mpe]

If I were in business I might jump at at the 18% off, but when you have very little money to begin with, well, would you rather get the MS software, or use linux and gice computers to a few more villages?

Also in the latter case no need to learn American or get your feet wet if things don't work.

THe other thing people have said that sounds fair to me is priorities. With the problems in most of africa, what good is Net access?

Namibia is the size of the western United States, but with a considerably lower population density

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that so? I read the letter, and it looks to me like MS offered to provide free Windows + Office if SchoolNet bought some hardware on which to run it (the hardware did not include Windows or Office licences). SchoolNet, however, preferred to buy some other hardware, which came preloaded with Window XP, and then demanded MS pay cash to 'refund' them for the Windows XP licences included with the hardware.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[schnooze]

This whole issue just p's me off. Namibia is just next door to my country, and M$ has tried this one on us too! (And got away with it). The problem, as I see it, is that embedding M$ software reliance is a double edged sword: firstly, (as a Linux & OS related solutions vendor) we have to use thier crappy software, and secondly, we have to pay in U$. For us in Southern Africa, that amounts to a fortune, as our exchange rates have been hammered in the past few years by greedy US bankers. The effect of M$ "donating$" their products to the South African government, though, has been that just as South Africa was ready to ditch them in favour of a Linux desktop, they pulled the government back from the brink and re-established themselves as the primary desktop vendor to the SA government. This has the knockon effect that everyone else follows suite: you cant submit a tender document in StarOffice format, no no, use must use a Word Document (emulators, blast em to hell, mission etc.) By M$ making strategic "donations" with strings attached, they wrap up the market tightly. Give it to schools? Why don't you give the little schoolchildren heroin instead? It's gonna work out cheaper for them in the end.

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[pianophile]

Namibia is the size of the western United States

Eh, just how much of the Western US are you including there?

CA, OR, and WA combined = 332,070 sq. miles
Namibia = 318,000 sq. miles

Re:Beggars with attitude!

[mindstrm]

But, they were not begging. They were not asking MS for a donation.
MS came to them, acted like they should be grateful, when in fact, even though their budget and plans were publicized, it would be obvious that the MS offer was unworkable.

It's like I walk up to some poor person in a shelter and say "Look, I'm willing to help you here, see how nice I am? I'm going to let you stay in my beach house in St. Kitts, but you will have to find your own way to fly there, and you'll have to get some decent clothes, and feed yourslef when you are there. See how generous I am?

The GNU GPL is a Free license

[yerricde]

to me there's a Big Important Difference between free and Free.

I understand that difference. I find software under the the GNU General Public License to be Free because

• I am free to run the program,
• I am free to study and adapt the program,
• I am free to help people by making and distributing copies of the program, and
• I am free to adapt the program to the needs of others and release it to the public, even if the public happens to be in another country, such as the Republic of Namibia.

Restrictions are restrictions, as far as I'm concerned.

Do you disapprove of a "restriction" on cold-blooded murder? I sure do.

Re:The GNU GPL is a Free license

[Kindaian]

Free in a sense that you can do things... not in a sense that it doesn't cost anything!

Even with windows, the cost isn't just the software... You have to add to it, the cost of the hardware, the manpower to intall and configure it.

When i think about it... M$ software is very expensive! Specially if you need to do more then the simple crap that is the default or near default things...

FUD, FUD and more FUD

[The Bungi]

More fucking senseless Microsoft bashing. My, my. When the average age of the typical Slashdot reader reaches 17, call me, mmmk?

Land Reform is not Genocide

[good soldier svejk]

The only genocide that article mentions is the well documented German genocide of Namibians. In the words of German General Trotha, " "Within the German borders, every Herero, whether armed or unarmed, with or without cattle, will be shot. I shall not accept any more women or children."

From your article.

Herero and Nama peoples from the arid central and southern regions mounted a rebellion against the colonial authorities in 1904.

Tens of thousands of the rebels were massacred and stripped of their lands. Those who were left were rounded up into native reserves and used as pools of cheap labour for German colonial farmers.

About 3,500 white commercial farmers own around 30 million hectares of farmland, most of which is semi-arid and used for cattle ranching and trophy hunting for wealthy European and American tourists. Since gaining independence from South Africa in 1990, the Government has resettled 30,000 people on 7.5 per cent of commercial farmland bought from white farmers. But another 240,000 people still want to be resettled.

Namibians also suffered horribly under South African rule and thousands served as slaves or near slaves in the diamond and uranium mines.

Microsoft, no class

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anonymously, because I tend to troll here on Slashdot, and I have a reputation to maintain.

I work, code, and spend some of free my time using MS products. Our work is pretty much a MS-only shop. I really like Win2K, ISA Server, IIS, and SQL Server. I do have a background in writing DOS apps with Borland Pascal under OS/2, so I like to think I haven't been a blind MS zealot all my life.

I just finished reading the article at the Register and am just overcome with a sinking feeling in my stomach. What the f*ck is Microsoft thinking? Ripping off a poor African nation with sneaky charges and motives?

I understand that every corporation is out to make money. But what the hell does MS want to do with Namibia's education money that they couldn't do with Exxon's, Toyota's, or any large multi-national? Rip off somebody who can afford it.

I think I'm going to start looking a bit differently at MS from now. And let my new outlook inspire my recommendations to my director at work.

Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[astrashe]

I can see why the guys in Namibia would be pissed off -- it sounds like they got jerked around.

It doesn't change the fact that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does an enormous amount of good in Africa and the rest of the world. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Bill Gates is the biggest philanthropist in the history of the world, and while critics can talk about soft donations of things like software licenses, in reality he does a lot of stuff like vaccinations and grants to develop basic infrastructure in the developing world.

He's done far more than anyone else, certainly more than me or anyone slamming him here.

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please if i donate 100 bucks to the FSF i've given a larger peice of my total worth to charity than bill gates has.

When you are worth many billion giving away a few mil for a tax break ain't such a big deal.

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[Blondie-Wan]

It doesn't change the fact that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does an enormous amount of good in Africa and the rest of the world. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Bill Gates is the biggest philanthropist in the history of the world, and while critics can talk about soft donations of things like software licenses, in reality he does a lot of stuff like vaccinations and grants to develop basic infrastructure in the developing world.

Of course, it's also known that many of Bill's & Microsoft's "charitable" donations are in fact calculated exercises to buy good PR. It's certainly true that it does in fact do some good, but as yet, all indications are they've never done anything they didn't perceive to be in their own interests, and that includes the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and all its "good works."

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, we all know The Register is the sacred fountain of truth, and a totally unbiased source of hard news.

Seriously, dude, The Register and Slashdot are like parodies of Linux users. Most Slashtot/Register readers I know only read them for entertainment. For real news, there are sites run by grownups, like news.com.

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[sheimers]

What money does Bill Gates donate? Money he got from his customers with the help of his employees. So whom should you say thanks?

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[vidarh]

Bill Gates generally donates SHARES to his foundation. This has several advantages for him: First of all, it allow him to reduce his tax bill substantially, as donations to a charity in the US is tax deductible. If he were to sell similar amounts of shares he would instead incur more tax, and worse, the share price of Microsoft would plummet if he kept on disposing of that large amounts of shares (Bill Gates has for years been slowly disposing of his Microsoft shares in order to diversify, and the pace has been slow exactly in order to prevent it from adversely affecting Microsoft in the stock market).

Donating shares is a great tax planning tool if you're otherwise unable to dispose of the shares that quickly without damaging the stock price, or if the shares aren't very liquid and selling a large volume of them would be impossible (the latter doesn't apply in this case, as the volume of transactions in Microsoft shares high enough)

I'm not saying his charity is bad. What I'm saying is that it's not nearly as generous as it might look - Gates gets quite a few personal advantages out of these donations.

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't change the fact that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation does an enormous amount of good in Africa and the rest of the world. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Yes, and mobsters in the U.S. did things like donating money to widows in their community. Does this make the means by which they attained their riches ok?

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[killmenow]

Sorry to burst your happy Bill Gate's loving bubble. Do a little research, will you...

The "Bill and" part on that foundation's name is for PR only. It is, in fact, the MELINDA Gates Foundation. She started it, she is the one involved in it. Bill goes allong to keep his WIFE happy.

Look up how much charitable giving Bill Gates was involved in before Melinda came along and you will see the truth of who is the charitable one in that family.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

Re:Bill G is the world's biggest philanthropist

[jbrownc1]

Let's be fair here:

Gates and almost every other Really Rich Person (RRP) make charitable donations that somehow work in their best interests. They didn't get rich by pissing money away on things that would have no return for them.

Particularly Amusing...

[thedbp]

i find it very funny indeed that countries who have in a way been "behind" technologically have had the unique opportunity to see how the market played out before they were able to enter it.

it seems they were watching closely, and made some very good decisions :)

this sort of factual and witty approach to eroding M$'s façade of being a people-oriented company (to use the politest terms i know of to describe the lecherous and filthy backstabbing techniques that have become the hallmark of their business practice) could very well pursuade governments all over the globe, even those that have, due to misfortune, been into the technology game the whole time - and playing happily by M$'s rules.

and as a side note, did any of you check out Math Boxing? great little game :)

Re:Particularly Amusing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah check out math boxing....my best so far is 30 seconds, I can't seem to shave 5 seconds off and get the high score :(

Re:Sounds like a good place to deploy Solo compute

[jpt.d]

I have to contest that - 500ish watts for a 'standard' desktop? I don't think so. My desktop (before I got my mac) uses a 350W power supply (enermax). Most computers ship with at most a 350W, most though are 300W. Considering most actual computers are older, they could be 145W to 250W easily. That is a big difference from 500ish.

Re:Sounds like a good place to deploy Solo compute

[Bill Currie]

It's ARM. Install linux. (ok, hardware drivers may be an issue, but that's just a small matter of coding:)

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

And jailing someone for 5 years if they -willingly- sell land to a foriegner is recompensation, too?

What did they expect?

[Jubii]

I mean honestly lets think about this:

20 refurbished diskless thin-client computer + contemporary server laboratory

Read that as Terminal Services running on crap boxes running a MS OS. Sure there are OSS versions of Terminal Services out there but did they really expect MS to have them continue using Linux? Microsoft isn't going to have them using some hybrid MS + Linux network. It doesn't make good business sense for MS, and lets be honest, they sure as hell wouldn't offer support for that.

Komen says he has no desire to turn his organization into a platform for Microsoft publicity

What did he expect them to get out of it, a warm fuzzy feeling?

alternative to our viable Open Source LTSP refurbished LAN and stand-alone Linux-PC

By viable I'm assuming he means "continually effective" which leads up to the question: If OSS was so viable to them why did they contact MS in the first place.

Re:What did they expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

What did he expect them to get out of it, a warm fuzzy feeling?

Hmm. Let me think on this one... An orginization that works hard to scrape together resources to put computers into impovrished schools in east Africa. I don't know, sounds like a kick back job with a fat paycheck to me. I can't see why they wouldn't appreciate a US$2000 discount on a US$11,000 purchase they don't need.

By viable I'm assuming he means "continually effective" which leads up to the question: If OSS was so viable to them why did they contact MS in the first place.

Because it was brought to their attention that MicroSoft may be a potential source for resources they badly need. They looked into it.

Re:What a dumbshit article

[douglas jeffries]

The Register should be spanked badly for this.

Is it so bad that The Register makes their takes on stories so obvious, and makes fun of things they believe are amazingly stupid? That's what I've always liked about them; they don't pretend not to have a viewpoint, and it's quite obvious what their views are. It's really easy to read past that, and it's often funny even when I don't agree with them.

Seems to me The Register wouldn't be who they are without ripping on people once in a while (every day), so I'd say you should choose to read them or not, and not worry about things like that.

Nah

[bogie]

then their locked into the MS Office monopoly. Plus when Office whatever comes out and won't run via wine they'll go to back to windows.

Much better to stick to native software like OpenOffice. Wine is a crutch that keeps you locked in a windows world. The more you use wine, the less incentive companies have to build native apps.

Re:Nah

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, you may end up with cirrhosis.

Hmm..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing that MS (along with 75% of the world) is smarter than you are. What would people say if they gave software away? Why, the same thing they said last time:

"OMG ANTI COMPUTISHUN!"

Re:Hmm..

[narkotix]

so fuking true that is

Well....

[Anonymous Coward]

Each copy of Office or XP costs MS essentially nothing to make. And MS, like many companies, offers deep, deep discounts for site licenses, so the estimated price of the package would be much lower than multiplying the the price of a single retail package.

Except in this case

[Srin Tuar]

It went more like this:

MS: hey bum, heres a dollar. Go buy me a hot dog.

Bum: but those cost $1.50!

MS: Well spot me the rest and Ill let you watch me eat it.

Bum: Keep your dollar asshole!

I hate to sound ungrateful, but...

[MacAndrew]

I think it is important to at least consider the % of one's icome or worth to figure how charitable one is being. Bill can give away a billion dollars as easily as one of us pays for a weekend out of town. Would it change his life in the slightest? Also, many of us question the way he came into those riches -- that monopoly thing.

Considering how much more he has than he could possibly use, and the PR problems he faces, I view his charity with some skepticism, as much as I welcome it. (Yes, he could do nothing, but we don't have to flatter him for merely being more than a complete Scrooge.)

Maybe there are too measures of charity -- how much good it does for others, and how much good it does your soul.

All that aside, what MS did in the present discussion sounds like just plain old bad attitude, not parsimony.

Re:I hate to sound ungrateful, but...

[Galahad2]

I find it incredibly annoying when people whine about rich people being rich. Bill Gates is fantastically rich. He could give away ten billion dollars and never notice. Whenever he does anything charatable (note that I do not consider the article to be an example of this), people always chime in on how much more he could be doing. Bullshit. As much as I lothe Microsoft's business practices and their products, Gates is one of the greatest philranthropists the world has ever had.

You said "yes, he could do nothing, but we don't have to flatter him for being more than a complete Scrooge." You're right; he could do nothing. Most people do. I'm willing to bet that you haven't donated even 2% of your annual income. As much as Gates does wrong, this is something that he does spectacularly right. However, everyone in their blind hatred of all things Microsoft somehow manipulates it into "just another example" of how evil he is.

Gates has given away billions of dollars, and plans to give away billions more. He has vowed to eradicate all diseases that can be, such as Malaria. Sure, he could just take a vow of poverty and make do with only a few hundred million. But that fact does not discount or cheapen what he has done.

Re:I hate to sound ungrateful, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not here to judge or condemn anybody. I just want to twist this discussion a little, because it is getting very two-sided and blindly dualistic.

Donating is so much more than money. Giving a check every month, or every quarter of a year, is not much - really it's NOTHING. It doesn't make you aware of other people suffering, or bring you in contact with them. They don't know you. You don't get to understand or share their pain in any way either. It's a remote fix for incredibly wrongs done in the past, which is now manifested as a world in severe unbalance. Except that nothing really gets fixed, because people shun away from responsibility.

No money in this world can fix any problems we have. The problems we face stems from human interactions in the past gone wrong, and the only way to stop it, is to change our attitudes - our consciousness. From a ME-ME-ME, to a YOU-and-US attitude. You see, the fastest way to get unhappy is to think about yourself all the time.

Just think about it.

Re:I hate to sound ungrateful, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

So, if I plunder the Bank Of America, it's fine, 'cos then I'm rich, and people who are rich shouldn't be criticised for how they got rich?

Yes, I'm making it bloody obviously wrong. You seem to be an idiot.

Re:I hate to sound ungrateful, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a cheap shot to suggest I'm whining or a hypocrite. Neither is relevant to whether I'm right, and anyway you failed to read my comment closely if you think it was that simplistic.

Gate is not a great philanthropist. He has lots of money but little vision. And he is far more interested in amassing a fortune than in helping anyone else.

Finally, a few hundred million is not a "vow of poverty." I realize you're being sarcastic, but really. Most people try to retire on one million, though I appreciate Bill Gates pays more each year in real estate taxes on his castle than most people earn.

As I said, it's worth being suspicious -- not assuming -- that Bill's philanthropy is just another investment, in public image, and regardless has no impact on anything in his life other than his desire to be the richest man in the world.

Re:I hate to sound ungrateful, but...

[CaffeineAddict2001]

So basically, only once everyone is sharing everybody elses pain will we have a utopia?

Let me ask the friendly neighborhood hobo:
"Would you rather have me come down here and live like a bum with you so I can understand your suffering or would you rather I sent you $100 every month?"

The notion that you can alleviate suffering by suffering along with someone makes no sense at all.

Where does it stop?

"So hobo, now we are both suffering. But we arn't suffering nearly as much as that lepper over there! Let's go and catch lepersy so we can understand HIS pain."

Grinding society down to the lowest common denominator in the name of equality is not wise.

Power consumption of a PC 150+350=500.

[martintt]

yup then how much does your monitor use? 150 watts?

150+350 = 500 n'est pas?

Also the rating of 350 watts is meant to be the output of the supply - not what it draws, and I think pc power supplies are less than 70% efficient, so your 350 watt power supply might actually draw 400 watts and give out 350watts supply and a fair bit of heat. (Ok it probably isn't on full load most of the time..)

Yes I know you could get a

C3 based

machine with an LCD screen, but even this would tend to use 200-300watts. (But I still want one, if anyone wants to do one for me in a 1:12 blue mini-cooper body)

These Solo machiness use 8.5 watts all in including monitor.

Slashturbation.

[Vainglorious Coward]

...it's not worthless

Certainly not - not when it's given us a new word. Slashturbation. There, I said it again

kudos OP d.k

Re:Slashturbation.

[Cruciform]

Thanks to allll yyyyyyou sllllashturbators I have to buyyyyy a new keyboard! This one's allllll stickyyyy! :(

That's integrity

[havardi]

"Shafted for a paltry US$ 2000? Not in your wildest linga-longer dreams!"
Joris Komen
Founding Executive Director, SchoolNet Namibia and NetDay Namibia

Why doesn't the US school system have REAL leaders like Joris?

All joking aside

[dcavanaugh]

When struggling countries like Namibia are motivated to avoid Microsoft, the same motivations are coming soon to a computer near you.

We all know it is possible to use Linux as an alternative to Microsoft. Most of us are accustomed to tolerating the Microsoft OS in order to get the functionality of their office apps. As time goes by, Linux has narrowed the gap to the point where the most cost-conscious users (schools and government) are ready to jump ship. The next wave will be home users, then small business, ultimately big business.

Ironically, conquering the piracy problem is what got the ball rolling. If Microsoft turned a blind eye toward piracy in certain key markets, they could have prevented Linux from establishing market share. Sure, they need to collect money from those who have money, but they also need to give away product to anyone who can't or won't pay. If you can't get the customer's money, you have to at least stop them from using the competitor's product.

Microsoft talks a good game about dealing with Linux as a competitor, but look at their actions. Higher prices, "software assurance", increasingly obnoxious EULA's, all the things they might be expected to do if there was no competition. The handwriting is on the wall -- time for Bill to cash in his chips and retire.

Re:All joking aside

[mjh]

Ironically, conquering the piracy problem is what got the ball rolling. If Microsoft turned a blind eye toward piracy in certain key markets, they could have prevented Linux from establishing market share.

According to the terms of the proposed settlement, they can't do this. They agreed to uniform licensing terms. Which means that they must give everyone the same terms as everyone else. If they "turn a blind eye" that enables them to apply different licensing models for different areas in order to sustain and grow their monopoly.

They aren't allowed to do that. And they certainly can't do it until today's rulings are released. If they fail to enforce a uniform licensing, which they agreed to in the proposed settlement, that may impact the judge's ruling.

After today, though, the game is afoot. I predict we're going to hear lots less of this kinda stuff.

Re:All joking aside

[dcavanaugh]

There is a big difference between "uniform licensing" and "effective enforcement". They could get rid of product activation, using "technical problems" and "customer complaints" as justification. Then they could whimper and whine every so often about the pirates. Just because they have to try and enforce uniform licensing, it doesn't mean they have to be successful.

Considering alleged M$ non-compliance with previous agreements, this whole concept would be relatively tame by compared to their other tactics.

Consider the Namibia situation that triggered this discussion. Is there anything in a proposed settlement that limits M$ ability to make charitable donations? Couldn't they flood the academic and government sectors with "corporate goodwill"? Apple, DEC, and numerous others had academic donation programs that bordered on product dumping. Nobody prosecuted them, so M$ would be in the clear.

Re:All joking aside

[mjh]

There is a big difference between "uniform licensing" and "effective enforcement".

Oh, you're absolutely correct. My point is that prior to the judge coming to a ruling, they simply can't risk looking like they're already subverting a settlement that they agreed to. It may give the judge grounds to break the company up.

As soon as this case is settled without a breakup, then MS will open up and start doing this kind of stuff. Not enforcing the uniform licensing. Ignoring areas where they know pirating is taking place in order to get a foothold later. And it will then be incumbent upon someone else spending a lot of $$ to prove that MS is violating the agreement.

Short of a ruling to breakup MS, this is what we'll see.

$.02

Re:Really?

[rueba]

The parent is not off-topic.(If so, it's parent is even more off-topic, and its at +5, Informative!).

Nowhere has "genocide" been proposed, and the article mentions that the "white farmers" were not exactly peaceful in obtaining that land.

What is being proposed is redistribution of fertile land, which is very scarce in Namibia. Whether this is the right thing to do can be debated. But it hardly amounts to "ethnic cleansing" or communism.

Microsoft has no morals

[gotr00t]

In the business world, Microsoft's behavior would be considered business smarts, but in the real world, which is filled with morals and people with feelings, Microsoft is being a jerk, being hostile to people.

This is just an example of how Microsoft is ignoring all morals and what is right just to earn some money. Although this is an isolated case, their "Office XP for students" is a much more broad case of how M$ manages to ignore morals to earn money. Sure, it's cheaper than regular Office, but that's not saying much, as regular Office is already ludicrously expensive. The student edition costs well over 100 US dollars. Let me get this straight - something THIS expensive was intended for students? And this is considered amnesty? I find it disgusting.

Sure, there are other packages out there for students that cost a lot, like Mathematica, which has a student edition that costs the same as Office for students, but the regular edition is well over several thousand dollars. Consider that in a ratio. Moreover, while the essential features of Office have been claimed by other word processors, Mathematica is unparalleled in functionality by any other calculation package in existance.

In conclusion, this is predictable old Microsoft behavior - overlooking almost all morals, disguising it as an act of charity, while earning massive amounts of profit.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[inode_buddha]

Couldn't have said it better myself, could someone please mod this up somehow? I especially liked the part about "Consider that in a ratio"...

Makes sense to me anyway.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, by getting students into M$ products they're locking them into their product line in the future.

Much like how VB lobotomizes programmers so that they can't code in anything else.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[Zenstru]

"In the business world, Microsoft's behavior would be considered business smarts" Isnt the bussiness world part of the real world? "but in the real world, which is filled with morals?" What morals? By what standard do you define them? but in the real world, which is filled with morals There have been quite a few varied sets in human history. "but in the real world" Arent morals defined by humans.....hence they don't always conform to the actual reality of things. That's why I'm curiouse what morals you are refering to and how you validate them. "Microsoft is being a jerk, being hostile to people. " Microsoft is also providing millions of people a job, functionality in service at jobs. --> because their office software is overall not matched up to par with UNIX or MAC applications of the same kind. Its serving the simple user. Who unlike many of us donest need to change security settings. They merely wish to listen to their music and type out documents, play games, and get the latest thing out there from other developers. No I don't think Microsoft has been 100% percent legit, but I don't specifically knwo of instances where hey have not been. There providing a service, for a market, and has gotten fairly far in developing its OS. "This is just an example of how Microsoft is ignoring all morals and what is right just to earn some money" And what is wrong with producing a product, providing a service, and making money or bebefiting yourself by it? Is that immoral? I'm just trying to understand if there's any sort of valid argument behind what yoru saying there. Looking at the situation overall, I would not be surprised if they did give them the Operating Systems. But if so or if not, What are they expected to take their earnings and start giving them off to people for free. Sure they have the right to do that, but just because someone needs something doesnt mean someone else shoudl have to give it. I know thsi is a little off yoru point btu I figured I'd give a bit more input. "disguising it as an act of charity" First off who said they shpld be disguising it as an act of charity? Second maybe it was and they did make a mistake and will accomodate them. I have yet to see a structured argument for why Microsoft is HELLISHLY BAD. People say its evil, btu it mostly isnt, in fact its largly beneficial to us all. Anyway, just curiouse. Zenstru

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[Melantha_Bacchae]

This is just off the top of my head.

Microsoft has:

Been found guilty (upheld in appeals court) of multiple counts of breaking antitrust law.

Engaged in terror marketing; using fear of audits to sell more licenses to companies than they need.

Produced and sold products so notoriously insecure that the FBI has had to warn the public.

Caused (through a bug in their SQL Server) nuclear materials in Russia and possibly in the US to slip through the cracks. The materials could be safe in a warehouse or in unfriendly hands, the database no longer has a record of them.

Left a trail of broken and dead companies in their wake, not through fair competition, but through dirty (and frequently illegal) tricks.

Caused huge amounts of lost documents and lost productivity to corporate customers, and an endless amount of frustration, stress, and blue screens of death to users.

Audited poor school systems and a children's charity, to grab what little funding those organizations had to feed their endless greed.

Attempted to force Licensing 6 on their customers, then publicly bragged about the resulting "unearned profits".

Refused to share their big wad of cash with their shareholders in the form of dividends. Since the stock is down from its glory days, what do the shareholders get in return for their investment? Nothing.

There is far more. Get your head out of MS Sand(TM) and read the news for a change. Microsoft has broken the law, failed their shareholders, and wronged their customers. That is wrong, even by the standards of business ethics. By the standards of human compassion, well gotr00t was right when they said Microsoft was a jerk. "Greedy Shark" works for me.

"At this moment, it has control of systems all over the world.
And...we can't do a damn thing to stop it."
Miyasaka, "Godzilla 2000 Millennium" (Japanese version)
Hmm, do you think Godzilla will blow Microsoft's candles out for his 48th birthday on Sunday?

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[workindev]

In the business world, Microsoft's behavior would be considered business smarts, but in the real world, which is filled with morals and people with feelings, Microsoft is being a jerk, being hostile to people.

Sorry to burst your utopian bubble, but to every business out there the business world is the real world. People start a company to make money, not to make people feel warm and fuzzy.

regular Office is already ludicrously expensive.

Office is priced as high as people are willing to pay for it. Despite what a typical slashdotter thinks, people are willing to pay for the features that Office offers. You can't honestly say that any of the office alternatives are nearly as good as Office. If you do, you in a minority. There is a reason why 95% of business users (including myself) prefer Microsoft Office.

this is predictable old Microsoft behavior - overlooking almost all morals

What? Would it be more "moral" for them not to offer any donations to schools at all?

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[Anonymous Coward]

I especially liked the part about you being added to my foes list.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[jez9999]

Office is priced as high as people are willing to pay for it. Despite what a typical slashdotter thinks, people are willing to pay for the features that Office offers.

This is 100% irrelevant to the ethical debate on Microsoft's licensing and pricing practices. If the price of bread went up 5000% universally tomorrow, people 'would be prepared to pay' that amount for it because bread is an important part of the diet. However, that doesn't make it by any means ethically right, or acceptable to society. The 'monopoly' that bread has (there wouldn't be a replacement product) means that people MUST pay the going rate for it, and as long as it doesnt *bankrupt* them, they will pay, as it is so important to them. The same is true of Office. If you say that that's a fair thing, you're an incredibly ruthless capitalist.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[workindev]

What are you talking about? Your analogy is weak and irrelevant. Do you have any clue about how capitalism works? There are a number of viable choices for office software that companies can choose from. Microsoft Office is a product with enough features and compatibility that almost everybody is willing to pay a premium price for it. If the features were not worth the price, I can guarantee you that people would not buy it.

Now, to use your weak analogy, if the price of bread suddenly went up to a level where it was no longer worth it to purchase, people would not complain about it still pay for it. They will switch to something else, like rice or something. If nothing else were available, I can guarantee you that some enterpising businessperson would swoop in and offer a bread substitute for less and steal the entire bread market. The breadmakers would stand to gain nothing and loose everything.

Microsoft may have a "monopoly", but its only because they make products that everybody wants. If people suddenly decide that they like the alternatives better, rest assured that the price on Microsoft Office would drop like a rock.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[cheezedawg]

If you say that that's a fair thing, you're an incredibly ruthless capitalist

What would be fair- the government telling a business how much they are allowed to charge for their products? Thats bull crap and you know it.

If people are willing to pay for Office, then why on earth would Microsoft want to charge less? If you look at AMD vs Intel, AMD is not charging less for their chips because they want to be nice to the people that use them- they are charging highest price that the average consumer will pay for them. If they could charge more, they would. Its not unfair- its business.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[jez9999]

What are you talking about? Your analogy is weak and irrelevant.

My analogy isn't the best one. It was just what immediately came to mind. Bear in mind I said *ALL* bread would rise in price, and that means NO ONE would come in and offer a cheaper product, because bread would be so hard to produce; obviously this is an artificial situation, designed to reflect the MS Office situation.

Do you have any clue about how capitalism works? There are a number of viable choices for office software that companies can choose from. Microsoft Office is a product with enough features and compatibility that almost everybody is willing to pay a premium price for it. If the features were not worth the price, I can guarantee you that people would not buy it.

No, I disagree. I think a LOT of people buy MS Office because they haven't heard of another product. Because Microsoft have been ruthlessly advertising their product and other companies have such a small market share that their products aren't half as well know. Because their friends have MS Office, and they much buy it to be able to swap .doc files with them (OpenOffice doesn't emulate the format perfectly). Because it comes as part of a software bundle that they get with their PC. But not because its features justify its price.

Microsoft may have a "monopoly", but its only because they make products that everybody wants. If people suddenly decide that they like the alternatives better, rest assured that the price on Microsoft Office would drop like a rock.

Yes, but people won't decide that, because they are _entrenched_ in the Microsoft Office way. You could say that exact same thing about Windows. If people like the alternatives better, yadda yadda. They WON'T change from their norm if they can help it; Microsoft's proprietory file formats don't help. This is creating an artificially large, and unhealthy, monopoly.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[jez9999]

What would be fair- the government telling a business how much they are allowed to charge for their products? Thats bull crap and you know it.

If people are willing to pay for Office, then why on earth would Microsoft want to charge less? If you look at AMD vs Intel, AMD is not charging less for their chips because they want to be nice to the people that use them- they are charging highest price that the average consumer will pay for them. If they could charge more, they would. Its not unfair- its business.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft Office dominating the market, per se. What I have a problem with is them USING that domination to unfairly shut out any competition, by creating hard/impossible to decrypt file formats and then buying laws to make it illegal for any opposition to decrypt them anyway. That's what's wrong.

What would be fair is the government doing as much as it can to ensure a level playing field for ALL companies making office suites. They could start by abolishing that utter piece of crap, the DMCA.

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[workindev]

Head on down to your local CompUSA and browse the Office software section. You will find Office suites from Apple, IBM, Microsoft, Sun, ThinkFree, Corel, and others. Most cost less than Microsoft Office. Are you telling me that the only reason that 90% of all users choose Microsoft Office is because they are too stupid to find anything else, or they are too "entrenched" in the Microsoft Office way? Do you honestly think that 90% of all users are willing to pay nearly 5 times as much for Microsoft Office because the "won't change from thier norm if they can help it"?

Re:Microsoft has no morals

[jez9999]

Yes.

Re:Beggars with CON ARTISTS

[3Ddgg]

If a guy drops a dollar in a beggars plate and goes to remove ten dollars as change, the beggar has every right to throw the dollar back in their face.

These people are NOT beggars. MICROSOFT APPROACHED THEM WITH SPONSORSHIP of a school program. They alrady have a functioning system running superior products.

They were giving Microsoft a chance to SHOWCASE MS technology in the hopes of demonstrating that Microsoft had a viable alternative, and as it turned out, Microsofts alternative was a con. There's a surprise!

I emailed them....

[jsimon12]

Here is their website. I told them that people in the Slashdot community would be willing to help, especially if it meant another grassroots anti-microsoft type situtaion, I also asked how we could help, money, equipment whatever. So hopefully we will hear something back. I will keep ya guys posted, hope something good comes of this.

You should have seen MS's first offer

[sbwoodside]

Give us total control of your country, and we will give you some fluff we found in our pockets. No? OK, well try this one then ...

Re:Anyone else read the headline as...

[JudgeFurious]

Flamebait indeed but I laughed anyway. Maybe it's because I first thought of South Park when I read the word NAMBLA.

Seriously though it's news I guess but it's not news to anyone who pays any attention to Microsofts SOP. It's completely predicatable and totally expected. The details are the only things that change. Their actions stay the same day to day, year to year, and decade to decade.

I'm more surprised that there is anyone on the planet who honestly thought that Microsoft would do anything for them without trying to make money off of them.

your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have over 1900 [slashdot.org] comments? Why Not?

Because I have a life.

Re:your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

You're number... well... I've lost count. Probably #25 this week.

Join the crowd! But please say something original next time!

No MS stories.

[Gutboy_Barrelhouse]

Have you noticed that ticking off the "no MS stories" box in your preferences really means "imperceptibly fewer MS stories"?

Re:No MS stories.

[The Bungi]

No, it means turning off Slashbork altogether.

If Katz was still around, you'd see him, but alas, all that's left are "stories" about "Micro$oft"

Sad and pathetic, eh?

Re:What a dumbshit article

[chemmathguy]

People... Let's step out of our U.S. centric views and honestly look at The Register. 1.) The Register is British so one would expect to find 2.) British humour. This is an example of their British wit (and yes they do take a bash at linux every once in a while) so 3.) it's o.k. for them to place this on their site. O.K.... time to reload our ignorant U.S. centric views...
P.S. That was an example of humour
P.P.S. The 12 year-old that writes The Reg must be the one Microscrew(I mean soft) used for it's infamous ad.

Microsoft was being foolish here.

[mfterman]

Assuming the best case scenario where the school system asked for a donation and Microsoft offered a $2000 discount on what would be a $11,000 package, whoever was in charge of drafting that deal should have known that the offer was going to be refused. A nation that poor can't afford usual Microsoft prices.

In short, Microsoft made a very dumb decision making that sort of offer. As someone else said, it's like giving a homeless person asking for a meal a fifty cent coupon off a five dollar meal. Yes, you owe the homeless person absolutely nothing but making that sort of offer is verging on an insult, and at the very least is showing incredible stupidity.

If Microsoft had to give $2000 in free software, why not make it a smaller number of Office/Window packages? Instead of offering just Office or just Windows offer a smaller combination of both. Of course that still skips support costs and so likely would have been tossed out but hey...

In any case, it's not hard to see why Linux is becoming increasingly popular in third world nations. In those places you practically expect Microsoft to start promoting piracy of its software just to keep Linux from becoming more entrenched.

Re:Microsoft was being foolish here.

[Anonymous Coward]

You assume too much. Like they care if they loose that oh so profitable high margin third world county market. So it's more like, we're not going to give away anything to someone with no prospect but hey, will give you a discount. If you accept, great, we got some revenue we're we have no expectations. If you don't, no loss.

this is true

[b17bmbr]

i am a grad student at cal state northridge, working on an MA in education. the ed dept. has a deal with m$ where by we can get office for $15-20 once per year. we must show our schedule to the bookstore manager, then we have to sign a sheet, they record the item number or something, then we get a cheap cd.

what is most disgusting about this is that not only do they sell it for the mac, the professors require that we submit docs in .ppt or .doc format.

trying to promote open source software is so hard when "office is 20 bucks". let me tell you, it sucks. it should be so obvious what m$ is doing.

Re:this is true

[dacarr]

We-ll, couldn't tell you about PoorPoint, but I knwo that most of your word processors under Linux will save in .DOC. My suggestion: tell them you didn't buy word, you did this with open source software that you got for free. If their minds can't understand thta $0 It makes me curious though - why do they want .doc or .ppt at CSUN?

Re:this is true

[Alsee]

why do they want .doc or .ppt at CSUN?

CSU-Microsoft Campus Enterprise Agreement (CEA). I really love this line: "A distinct advantage to the campus enterprise agreement is that it does not require any exclusivity whatsoever. CSU faculty, staff, and students have the option to use any software they want" because the next sentence says: "Microsoft accepted this type of agreement because two-thirds of the CSU campuses endorsed Microsoft Office products as their campus-wide standard".

The office XP is only avilable at the $20 price because 2/3rds of the schools in the system are going to force 100% Microsoft monopoly on their students. I'm sure the situation at the other 1/3rd is going to be almost as bad. If you enforce a zero tolerance policy of against Microsoft competitors then you get a deep discount (more like a bribe). It's not Microsoft using anti-competitive tactics, it's the schools doing it! (chuckle)

Not that the school officials care too much about how much the students pay for Office XP, I'm sure the deal saved at least a few thousand dollars for the administrative offices.

There was a recent article on /. about Microsoft making a deal with a college that would require every student to take a course in .NET or C# (I forgot which).

Disclaimer: I don't know jack about CSUN, I just did a google on microsoft CSUN and it was all in the first link.

-

Re:this is true

[Niksie3]

if you save a file as rtf and change the extension to .doc word will open it without complaining.

Re:this is true

[aeakett]

There was a recent article on /. about Microsoft making a deal with a college that would require every student to take a course in .NET or C# (I forgot which).

The story can be found here. It was the University of Waterloo here in Canada.

Re:this is true

[fishbowl]

It's true that other word processors will save .doc format that can be opened by MS Word.

However, even with the best of these, subtle changes in formatting and minor incompatabilities will not permit completely transparent use.

Recruiters and hiring managers want your resume in Office format. The office format saved by, e.g., openoffice is very, very close (and quite compatable), but it is not the same. It's enough of a hassle that I consider the price of MS Word to be a barrier to entry into the job market.

Re:this is true

[Jucius Maximus]

"Not that the school officials care too much about how much the students pay for Office XP, I'm sure the deal saved at least a few thousand dollars for the administrative offices."

I think that today, it's a foregone assumption from schools that each student has a pirated copy of Microsoft Office and can easily get pirated copies of Matlab, Maple, etc. They depend on it.

Re:this is true

[jez9999]

Solution: why not save the resume in .RTF? You might not be able to do stuff like Wordart, but really... do you need that for a professional document anyway?

Re:this is true

[fishbowl]

Okay, so you have a recruiter or a hiring manager, they've received your RTF document, and ask for it in Word Doc format. What do you say? Do you argue, or do you send them a Word doc?

Re:this is true

[jez9999]

Erm, it would depend on how determined I was to stick to wider use formats. Frankly, I'd probably tell them to 'double click on the file'.

"Namibian Scam"

[Omega Hacker]

Looks like Microsoft has invented a new scam, coming soon to an email box near you!

"Sexykellyosbourne" == GENOCIDAL RACIST-

[Anonymous Coward]

an Stuart is awesome (Score:0, Flamebait)
by SexyKellyOsbourne on Wednesday October 30, @01:22AM (#4562194)
(User #606860 Info | http://images.cafepress.com/zoom/1230045_zoom.jpg | Last Journal: Wednesday October 30, @03:56PM) And Jello Biafra is a lisping pinko faggot.

RIP Ian, 14 Words, 88

Sieg Heil! White Power! RAHOWA!!!

[SexyKellyOsbourne]

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.

Re:Sieg Heil! White Power! RAHOWA!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

If this was meant as a joke...it isn't funny. If not...there is no concept of hell yet conceived that is appropriate for the likes of you.

But it's not really Free, is it?

[by Steven Woston]

I understand that difference. I find software under the the GNU General Public License to be Free [gnu.org] because

You don't quite understand the word "free", do you? If there are any restrictions at all, it is NOT free.

I'm of the belief that intellectual property should remain in the hand of the IP owner, but if there is any true way of making software "free", it's Public Domain. The closest to this in terms of popular open source licenses would be the BSD license, but even that isn't truly free. Let's compare your list against Public Domain software.

I am free to run the program,

Ditto with Public Domain software.

I am free to study and adapt the program,

Public Domain software allows this too.

I am free to help people by making and distributing copies of the program, and

Gee - Public Domain software has this "feature", too.

I am free to adapt the program to the needs of others and release it to the public, even if the public happens to be in another country, such as the Republic of Namibia.

Well, so far I haven't seen any advantage to using the GPL from a free software prespective.

Sorry.

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

Well, so far I haven't seen any advantage to using the GPL from a free software prespective.

No problem - we don't have to worry about somebody coopting a gpl program and selling as a proprietary package. Some people like that kind of thing.

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[pr0t3uS]

"Well, so far I haven't seen any advantage to using the GPL from a free software prespective."

Public Domain software is not really Free, because someone can stop its Freedom by putting a nasty license on it.

GPL assures, that everyone can use, copy and make changes to the source and it also assures that, when the modified source will be released to the public again, nobody will lose his freedom to use, copy and modify the source again. And that to me sounds like a bigger Freedom than the one, where everyone can do with the source what he will, even stop Free distribution of it.

GPL therefore restricts only the modifier of the code in the way of distribution.

You can easy see the difference between PD and GPL if you think what the names are saying:

Public Domain - as long as there's something to use, public CAN use it

General Public License - everybody has the same RIGHTS to use, copy, modify and distribute it.

GPL has Freedom written all over it and nobody can wipe it off.

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[bovinewasteproduct]

Public Domain software is not really Free, because someone can stop its Freedom by putting a nasty license on it.

Ahhh... this is a strawman, the same that is used with the BSDL flamefests.

Even if I grab a piece of PD software, make a couple of changes and slap MY license on to it, the original is STILL PD! They have taken nothing from YOU except the ability to use their changes. Which when you think about it, makes since. They did the work, NOT you.

Just like when "Evil Empire"(R) grabs a piece of BSDL software, hacks the hell out of it and then sells it. The original is still BSDL and you still have access to it. Why should you care if someone wishes to release under a PD or BSDL license? The only reason why I release under the BSDL is that, one, I want credit, and two, I want the little protection of the disclaimer.

BTW, I've released software written by me, under both PD (early stuff) and BSDL (later stuff). I have also contributed patches to GPL'ed projects under the GPL. My choice... NO ONE elses!

BWP

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[fredrik70]

Well, could be some people just don't mind if that happens.
Basically (IMHO), All GPL does is protecting the code from being snatched by someone. If you worry about it, go for GPL, otherwise, if you're ok with it, go for BSD or other less restrictive licences.

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[swv3752]

Kerberos

Otherwise known as embrace, extend, extinguish. There was no effective functionallity added, just prevents the open version from working with it.

When you take something, change it so that the open version does not work, and lock everyone that does not use your version out; that is wrong. This is why people have problems with BSDL and similiar licenses. Go Troll elsewhere.

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[jez9999]

Just like when "Evil Empire"(R) grabs a piece of BSDL software, hacks the hell out of it and then sells it. The original is still BSDL and you still have access to it. Why should you care if someone wishes to release under a PD or BSDL license?

I think your sentence answers itself. The 'Evil Empire' takes a nice piece of PD software, adds their GUI onto it, slightly changes protocol/file format/whatever to make is M$-exclusive, and establishes it as a 'standard' by ruthlessly distributing it for free with their OS. Witness what happened with Mozilla/IE (OK, Mozilla was licensed, but a similar scenario). End result? The piece of public domain software has sourcecode available for all, but it's not useless, because everyone uses Microsoft.

Re:But it's not really Free, is it?

[jez9999]

Erm.. that should be:

The original piece of public domain software has sourcecode available for all, but it's useless, because everyone uses Microsoft.

Boy, oh boy...

[BurKaZoiD]

...did Microsoft screw the pooch on that one.

Microsoft and Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

This might be ever so slightly off-topic, but damn, if the people here don't find it interesting, who will?

The news basically is that MS is moving in to Libya these days. Those of you who are up on the political situation will appreciate how this is interesting news.

As I understand it, this is under the aegis of someone in the ruling family; fingers in the pie and all that.

Finally, I find some use for the AC facility...

Anyhow, this is fresh news, 48 hours old from the horse's mouth who was in the middle east yesterday. Figure it out yourself. :-)
And don't ask me how I found out...

Re:Microsoft and Africa

[phil reed]

Hmmm. Doesn't Microsoft-supplied encryption still have those NSA-supplied keys?

Re:Microsoft and Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

Wouldn't know. I sure as hell hope not, seeing as the Egyptian government is in bed with Bill.

They have this whole e-government thing going atm, and it's really getting to me.

We're working on a nascent LUG over here, and I spoke to a few people in the ministry handling IT related stuff, and gave them some linux literature and a copy of the OS.

2 days later, they sign a massive deal with MS to upgrade something between 150,000 and 250,000 workstations to MS.

Is this the usual scale?

Why couldnt they...

[Kevin Stevens]

It would have been interesting if they accepted the donation, and then just sold the copies of Office XP on ebay or something. They could have really outsmarted MS, if even just out of spite, rather than an intention of making a decent profit.

Re:Why couldnt they...

[Alsee]

just sold the copies of Office XP on ebay or something

Anyone wanna take bets on weather the licence would be non-transferable, thus illegal to sell on Ebay?

P.S.
God is dog spelled backwards....

Dog as a devil deified lived as a god.

Just in case you don't get that sentence, try writing it all backwards.

-

Re:Why couldnt they...

[TummyX]

Except that the licenses would have been NON transferable. I don't think you can outsmart Microsoft's legal department that easily.

Re:Why couldnt they...

[Anonymous Coward]

In Scheme, this is a palindromating function:

(define (pal s) (list->string (reverse! (string->list s))))

I'm currently learning Python, and I was disappointed that I couldn't seem to do it that easily. But then this occurred to me:

def pal(s): return reduce(lambda a, b: b+a, list(s))

Although terse, that lambda reduction generates a lot of garbage (quadratic, as opposed to linear with the Scheme version), so I'm still not happy.

Do I any recourse apart from the obvious crappy boring procedural version?

PS: This is not "Off Topic"; the article topic clearly refers to "Strings".

is this about microsoft?

[SystematicPsycho]

Is this one of those countries that refuses any form of help from anyone, even if say the EU were to donate several tonnes of wheat to help it's starving citizens? Basically taliban/N.Korean style. Or is it about money? I think if anything, RedHat should get off there arses and spread the word to 3rd world countries on open source initiatives.

Re:is this about microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say the grain that 95% of Namibians use is millet. They are having a drought. And the US comes in with tonnes of wheat and corn "donations".

Imagine the irony, if the US had a starvation epidemic, and the EU "came to the rescue" with tonnes of gourmet horse meat...

I'll just stick to SoyLent Green.

Re:is this about microsoft?

[Chris Johnson]

Yes, absolutely- in that Microsoft's notion of 'gift' means being locked into their systems and having to pay them lots of money for it, and the grain 'gift' you mention was Monsanto patented corn, which can contaminate existing crops and lead to (a) said crops not being sellable in the EU because of the contamination, and (b) the risk of Monsanto suing you and demanding money for your entire crop since they own the patent on it.

Not that you meant it THAT way, but yeah, it's very similar.

Re:is this about microsoft?

[theolein]

Your question says a lot more about your knowledge of the world and current news than it does about either Namibia, the Taliban, North Korea or anywhere else for that matter.

Re:is this about microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is precious...but let me take your points as they appear.

1) No...Namibia accepts aid from countless numbers of country and most of these donors normally consider the Namibian government to be a good development partner.

2) That some of these countries (e.g., many in southern Africa) are concerned about the quality of what they are offered in donations is not stupid. I suggest you read something like "The Lords of Poverty" to get a clue on this.

3) Now...how do you suppose the Taliban came to power? It just might have been helped by all of the U.S. military aid it received both BEFORE, during, and after the Soviet invasion. Step out of Disneyland for a moment.

4) Yes...it's about money.

5) People know about Red Hat in Namibia...thank you very much.

Re:is this about microsoft?

[SystematicPsycho]

1) No...Namibia accepts aid from countless numbers of country and most of these donors normally consider the Namibian government to be a good development partner.

Thats really great.

2) That some of these countries (e.g., many in southern Africa) are concerned about the quality of what they are offered in donations is not stupid. I suggest you read something like "The Lords of Poverty" to get a clue on this.

And your telling me because?

3) Now...how do you suppose the Taliban came to power? It just might have been helped by all of the U.S. military aid it received both BEFORE, during, and after the Soviet invasion. Step out of Disneyland for a moment.

No that is not how the Taliban came to power, go and read the part about the mujahadeen and the civil war that followed after the war against the soviets ended - "get a clue on this". You think that because the CIA trained a few mujahadeen fighters that the taliban came into power, that sounds realistic not.

5) People know about Red Hat in Namibia...thank you very much.

Okay so your obviously African.. so why don't you write letters to your local elected member of your concerns over using microsoft and offer the altnernatives??

Re:Instead, plan to make money with Linux & Sl

[Anonymous Coward]

please point at the plonker not using ><
PLONKER

OK, I'm a space cadet right now....

[Russellkhan]

I had read the article on The Reg before the /. article, and forgot for a moment that The Reg article was the one referenced.

Sorry about that, try to moderate me kindly.

Russ

WestOz could lose an artificial reef for Namibia

[leonbrooks]

A year or two ago, we stuck in Cables artificial reef at Leighton beach (webcam, requires Java) to improve the surf there. I can't remember how many million dollars that cost (maybe $6 million?), on a coastline not exactly stuck for surfing spots, but if we'd put it to Namibia instead they'd be swimming in computers.

It isn't that they have no morals

[0x0d0a]

That really isn't the problem for them. The problem is that they *appear* to have no morals. The ideal thing is to act evilly and appear good. The problem is that you can't always pull this off, so sometimes it's best to actually be good, since the trust/relationship built from the otherwise difficult to produce appearance of being good is worth more than you would get from acting evilly this one time.

Re:It isn't that they have no morals

[workindev]

Funny. What has Microsoft ever done that would come anywhere close to being considered "evil". Just because they make a product that most computer users are willing to buy and use, but you don't want to, that makes them "evil"?

I'm sorry, but as much as you may dislike "clippy the paper clip" and a blue screen of death, don't you think its a bit of a stretch to call them "evil"?

Re:It isn't that they have no morals

[0x0d0a]

I was using "evil" as hyperbole. "Self-interested" woudl be closer.

Essentially you have a business, which wants to do whatever is best for it, and damn donations to kiddy hospitals and environmental issues and the like, but which is faced with the need to maintain decent PR.

Any business has this as an issue. This isn't MS-specific.

Not silly -- serious

[0x0d0a]

Actually, for developing countries, tech work is a pretty reasonable field. It doesn't take a tremendous amount of experience to become a tech at the skill level that can command a salary these days. The market for IT workers in all these countries is just going to grow. As for software development, you don't need a huge amount of capital to develop software (well, I suppose it depends on your target market, but I can sit down with xemacs and gcc and and old computer and write marketable Windows or Linux software). You can also work remotely very easily, doing contract work for a company in another country.

It's pretty well recognized that India is heading to bypass the US in software development.

Good idea

[0x0d0a]

This is a lot more reasonable.

Older computers that are just sitting around your house could be used by them. I doubt many people here are going to write checks, but if we could ship away our older computers, I think people would do that to a lot of their boxes.

Loyalty

[LinuxGeek]

How long has it been since MS had to rely on loyalty? My best guess is just before IBM became the last major holdout to license Win95 under their 'secret' terms that forbade selling non-MS operating systems on pc hardware. When even IBM would(could?) only sell OS/2 shipped in the box but not installed, MS no longer had to worry about petty issues like loyalty. They had all of the major pc players tied together and played against each other.

Nambia now knows that MS plays an expensive game of poker; if you can't afford to loose your money, then don't sit down at the table.

MS VS.net add on this page

[Baki]

How ironic that I get an MS VS.NET advertisement displayed on this page.

Maybe they display those adds on any page that has ' microsoft' in the title, in an attempt to counter the expected critisism?

Re:Sounds like a good place to deploy Solo compute

[mpe]

I have to contest that - 500ish watts for a 'standard' desktop? I don't think so. My desktop (before I got my mac) uses a 350W power supply (enermax).

You omitted the monitor. Remember that a lot of this power winds up being pumped out as heat, the last thing you need in a tropical country is heating. Namibia's capital has a similar lattitude to Havana.

re: anti-HIV

[Anonymous Coward]

And in keeping with the eBay idea above, cheap (90% off) HIV/AIDS medicine meant for the 3rd. world has made its way back to the producing countries in the black market.

Something Practical

[Anonymous Coward]

Does Windows XP and/or Office XP have language packs for any of the following:

Afrikaans
Herero
Damara
Nama
Oshivambo
!Kung

I'm not saying that Linux currently provides support for them either --- but translate.org.za implies that they will start work on those languages after they finish with the official languages of Azania.

Lindows + "Free" OfficeXP = ???

[andhar]

Maybye there is a niche market for Lindows after all!

More for free

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you even bother spending money on microsoft products in a place like that? You are able to get most things for free, including a stable OS, graphics editing program, office like program and most other things. Simply donating Office is stupid when they don't have the os to run it on. Why would they need it when most of the computers there run on free software?

This reminds me of the simpsons episode where Homer starts an internet company, and bill gates comes and "Buys it out" by smashing everything. M$ only wan't to look good and saw this a a way to get publicity, "poor them! they don't have a copie of Office, lets donate it so that they can look at the pretty boxes and wish they had a system that could run it".

It is Namibia, not California.

[jotaeleemeese]

The Namibian dollar (pegged to the South African rand) can buy very little.

You can have a full meal for 3 (including drinks, loads of meat, etc) for the equivalent of 4 US$.

Houses in the rich area of Windhoek, the capital city, sell for around 150000 US$. We are talking mansions with 10 or more bedrooms, two or three floors and 24 hour security. Is where embassies are mostly located.

2000 US$ may be little for US standards, for Namibian standards is a huge amount of money.

Nevertheless the Namibian goverment got this one right: they saw what most people here have understood from the start, that MS donations are not such.

Re:It is Namibia, not California.

[ruiner13]

You can have a full meal for 3 (including drinks, loads of meat, etc) for the equivalent of 4 US$.

Houses in the rich area of Windhoek, the capital city, sell for around 150000 US$. We are talking mansions with 10 or more bedrooms, two or three floors and 24 hour security. Is where embassies are mostly located.

2000 US$ may be little for US standards, for Namibian standards is a huge amount of money.

Hate to burst your bubble, but I know many places in the US that have the same (and even lower) costs of living than your example. I'm in a decent sized college town (250K+), and you can buy some freaking huge houses for $150K USD here too. Got any better figures?

Good analogy

[Anonymous Coward]

hehheh

Re:What a dumbshit article

[Anonymous Coward]

TO the replys and post of Re:What a dumbshit article: shut up to stupid fuckwads!!!

wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

11/01/02


1 Calling all trolls -- troll assault on Klipsch!!! posted on Friday November 01, @04:42AM (Score:-1)
attached to PumpkinPC v1.0 Makes Its Hallowe'en Debut
2 Fat=Sexy posted on Friday November 01, @04:22AM (Score:1)
attached to Journal Discussion: What's Sexy?
3 Sieg Heil! White Power! RAHOWA!!! posted on Friday November 01, @01:09AM (Score:1)
attached to Namibia Says "No Thanks" To Microsoft Donation With Strings

Wow, it's halloween. I posted the grandparent and went out with friends. Meanwhile, you stayed home and trolled a couple of lame-ass forums.

all I can say is... sucks to be you

Re:wow...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure you did. Sure you did.

Re:What a dumbshit article

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot and The Register are basically just outlets for immature malcontents to rant, and the rest of us to laugh at. I don't know anyone who takes them seriously.

OK: How you can help Namibian schools with Linux

[Simon Brooke]

Right. Having read this article I did a quick bit of background research. According to this article, the people who are helping the Namibian SchoolNet project are a UK based charity called CODA. They're mainly funded by the UK government, but I'm sure they wouldn't say no to donations in cash. As well as their work in Namibia CODA is active in Central America.

CODA work with another UK charity, Computer Aid, who refubished the machines sent to Namibia. They're looking for donations of money but they're also looking for donations of old computers, and for volunteers to help refurbish computers (in London, England).

Absolute bullshit.

[jotaeleemeese]

Not a single farmer has been shot dead by goverment sponsored mobs.

The Namibian goverment is intending to redistribute land, and rightly so. They began with idle land owned by foreigners (which are mostly white).

Go to a white owned farm in Namibia: kilometers and more kilometers of land that benefit a few white people while providing just basic sustenance for underpaid workers.

Certainly the Namibian goverment is not the best and is begining to show the typical African deseases of tribalism, cronysm and corruption, but to call them genocidal racists is far off the mark (at least at the moment).

GET YOUR XOVER OFFICE/PLUGIN HERE!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey guys:

As I believe this software should be FREE, here is a FTP with full copies of:

- CrossOver Office
- CrossOver Plugin
- WineX

ftp://simplylinux.org/pub

KEEP LINUX SOFTWARE FREE!!!!

Namibia vs. South Africa

[theolein]

Namibia, being a much smaller country and more homgenous than South Africa, enable a single person to get his voice heard. His seems like a voice of reason. South Africa, whose politicians are known to not be above taking the occaisional "motivational sum of money" gladly accepted MS's similar offer ($150 Million for a country of 45 million people with about 5 million kids in school does not work out to all that much, given that Office or windows costs a bit more than $3 per copy).

Good on Namibia. Fuck the corrupt bastards in the ANC.

Stop the meme: communism and GPL don't mix.

[jotaeleemeese]

GPL si most respectful of copyright laws and private ownership, both anathemas to communist ideas.

You are encouraged to make a buck with OSS, you are encouraged to use your iniciative and talent to increase your profits as a business, consultant, etc.

How do you square that with communism?

Re:What a dumbshit article

[RickHunter]

What exactly are you complaining about? That the Register pointed out that the schools would have to spend lots of money on Microsoft software (more than the value of the donated products) to even use the gift? How exactly is that propaganda?

And I think you'll find that this is the correct (or a correct) use of the phrase "trojan horse". IE, an offer disguised as a gift which results in substantial harm to the recipient.

DIfficult ethical problem

[jotaeleemeese]

Let take an extreme example of "charitable" giving:

In Colombia drug barons are reveared and seen as heroes. Why? because a lot of the money they earn pedalling drugs to rich countries is used in the local community (churches, schools, that kind of thing). Not only that, but drug money is the biggest earner of hard currency of the Colmbian economy.

Is it OK to laud somebody that makes good with the profits he has made by less than exemplary means?

I do not know. I think in the drug barons case the answer is clearly no, in the case of other people it may be more defficult to come with a satisfactory answer.

Re:Typical MS Slime

[Anonymous Coward]

ANY tactic is allowed when fighting a pig like M$$$. ANY, I said. I would have a bad consciencew ONLY if I actually USED or PAID for a M$ product.

Re:Beggars and fools

[octalgirl]

How easy to forget that most schools in the US were there just a few short years ago (indeed, some still are!). The amount of $$$ MS receives from our public schools in completely astronomical compared to what it was just 5 years ago. Schools started with just a few here and there, then things grew. That was always the plan, and MS knew it.

Anyone who paid attention to the Universal Service Fund (it's that tax that's on every phone bill in the country to help schools get internet access) could predict how large technology in education would become, and MS did not miss that boat. A little simple math: 92,000 school districts in the US, x 20K each in software licenses (let's say for simplicity, that covers everything - servers, CALs, Office, Mail, kids stuff, etc.) Now keep in mind that some districts are very small and can be just one or two buildings, others like Las Vegas or Dallas can have between 200 to 500 schools in one district - so this is a very rough but fair number (We spend more than that and we are 12 buildings).

Unless you purchase volume licenses, you may not have noticed that during the Office 97 era, Publisher was a separate package and a lot of schools didn't buy it (we just used Word), then for 2000 when you licensed Pro it included Pub 2000 - Oh I thought that was very nice of them!!! Now comes Office 2002 (XP) - you got it, Publisher is back out and costs another $5 a desktop if you want to keep it. Major bait-and-switch game. We opted out and are back to Word only, even with a couple of angry classrooms who had integrated it into curriculum, which I'm sure MS was counting on. It may not seem like much, but $5 a desktop and 2000 computers = another 10K just for that.

MS planted seeds all right, and now the roots are starting to crush the foundations...

explanation

[danro]

..."communist thieves" is an oxymoron"...

I would just love to hear an explanation of that one.

A communist thief is an oxymoron because a communist does not belive in private property.

I can't believe they don't teach this stuff in school, or were you just not paying attention?

If you want to bash communsm, read the communist manifesto.
You will probably find it more interresting to disagree with them if you know what they are actually saying? no?

NOT for $20!

[gunnk]

As far as I know, there is nowhere that MS Office only costs $20. Here at UNC-Chapel Hill, I can pay $20 for the "media duplication costs" at the Student Stores to get a copy of Office.

UNC, however, ponies up several hundred thousand dollars every year to pay for the site license that lets me do that. Sure, I don't pay for a license at the checkout counter: students pay for it in their tuition and departments see it paid for out of the university IT budget -- which I'd rather see spent on infrastructure than on pushing MS software!

Re:NOT for $20!

[Roblimo]

As a working taxpayer who subsidizes my state's university system, I ought to be as eligible for that discount as the profs and students who benefit from my generosity, right?

- Robin

Re:NOT for $20!

[Anonymous Coward]

You are, all you have to do is enroll in some classes there.

Re:NOT for $20!

[dorzak]

Yes, however, in the example of UC-Davis, the state contributions to the school account for approx 12% of the budget last I heard when I was working for the annual fund back in 1994. At that time student fees were approximately 5%, the rest came from donations, endowments, licensing of UC-Davis "inventions" and other initiatives such as the annual fund I was working for. I got disgusted with working for the annual fund, becasue it meant calling parents of students begging for donations.

Anyways, how about you get 12% of the donation? About enough to cover the sales tax...

Namibia: Great Place, Go Visit

[spike2131]

Namibia has the beauty of many other African countries, but retains a heavy German influence, so things are generally much nicer, functional, and better maintained. When I visited the capital, Windhoek, I was impressed by its wide streets with actual street lights and working parking meaters (in stark contrast to many other African capitols such as Dar es Salaam and Kampala.) Maybe thats in part due to the sparse population. In character, Windhoek reminded me of Madison, Wisconsin, ploped down on the edge of the Kalahari desert.

There are many things to see in Namibia, including the rare desert elephants of the Skeleton Coast, the vast game park at the Etosha Pan, and reputedly the largest sand dunes in the world in the area of Sossusvlei park.

If you do go, I highly recommend a stay at the Swartfontein Guest Farm. They have great home cooked Italian food, and its the only place I've ever stayed where they let me ride along on a wildebeast culling.

Really?

[tkrotchko]

"Buying education version when you are not a student is exactly like pirating it."

Really? It sounds more like a EULA violation than a copyright violation.

I think the two are entirely separate.

parking meater?

[theolein]

Is this a type of namibian wildlife? :)

Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a troll, and a bad one.

On the other hand, I still like you, since you're probably my son. Your mom moved her ass so well. She begged me to shave the hair from her back.

Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

You are a troll, and a bad one at that.

I shouldnt' be too insulting..you're probably my son. Your mom moved her ass so well, I had to go back 5 or 6 times.

She begged me to shave the hair from her back.

We call it maize

[murcon]

Heh. A bit like the reaction of the African nation that doesn't want American genetically modified corn ...

Just how much is this "free" gift going to cost us?

Even bigger than "Christian Science"?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's always been my favorite. Drop yer pants and hail Astarte!

Re:Anyone else read the headline as...

[Blackneto]

I don't think the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes even cares what OS a country is going to use.

Obviously You Have Never Met Joris Komen

[Anonymous Coward]

Simply put...YOU ARE WRONG!!!

Re:Really?

[swillden]

Well, and then there's the little bit of fraud required to make the purchase...

Re:OK: How you can help Namibian schools with Linu

[Anonymous Coward]

I appreciate Simon's research work here, but I want to point out a few inaccuracies: 1) first and foremost...SchoolNet Namibia is primarily a NAMIBIAN NGO and is overwhelmingly supported by Namibian ICT experts and organizations, 2) the primary non-Namibian supporter of SchoolNet is the Swedish International Development Agency with their US equivalent (USAID) soon likely to be the second largest donor, 3)Computer Aid International has assisted in providing Namibia with computers, but it charges them for the computers it provides (that you donate and fund). If you want to help SchoolNet/Namibia and all of the great work it is doing...I suggest you find wasy to donate to them more directly or to earmark your donations to these other groups in such a way that you know that it supports SchoolNet/Namibia more directly. The point I am trying to make here is that this is a Namibian initiative. Don't think that it needs other heavy-handed (if even well-intentioned) aid agencies or NGOs to do its work. Of course...it can always use some more boxes for schools or dollars to pay their light bills or to support their fantastic and largely voluntary tech team.

Time for an Open Source "Peace Corps"?

[jbrownc1]

It would seem like Open Source could gain significantly more traction if there were an Open Source "Peace Corps"-like group that worked with countries that don't have the funds to pay lots of licensing fees to set up their infrastructures on Open Source (speaking generically, Free Software, Open Source, I don't give a damn) software.

There's a lot of out of work IT folks that could use a good cause.

Do not underestimate the value of market share

[dcavanaugh]

Microsoft can't afford to let Linux become the standard by default in developing nations. It gives Linux credibility that will find its way back to the markets M$ cares about. China is a perfect example of a market that won't support Microsoft prices, but is way too big to ignore. The Chinese were using Microsoft products as a de facto standard until piracy became a hot issue. As piracy diminished, so did the M$ market share. I think M$ was actually better off in China with the piracy. These days, Linux is on a rampage in China. Go ahead and write off Namibia if you like, but how about the rest of Africa?

Nobody buys Microsoft products for security or stability, and the price is no great bargain either. People buy Microsoft because "It's the standard -- everyone else uses it -- I need compatibility." This all falls apart pretty fast when the have-nots of the world use Linux and they manage to survive. The gods of corporate cost control will eventually focus on Microsoft licensing. When they do, the question will be, "Why do we pay for Microsoft products when a billion Chinese people have managed to avoid this $800 per seat expense?"

Re:Do not underestimate the value of market share

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, yes, devoloping nations, stuff in africa don't fit that bill. China is developing, africa is cornering the market on dirt and aids.

Re:Do not underestimate the value of market share

[dcavanaugh]

The pursuit of cheap labor never ends. For decades, Japan was a large source of cheap labor; not anymore. Now it's China, Korea, and Central America. At some point, the focus will shift to Africa. When Microsoft finally starts to care about this market, they will find themselves fighting a losing battle against a thoroughly entrenched Linux base, filled with customers who have come to expect a retail price of $0.

It's hard to compete with Microsoft because they control such a high percentage of the market. Now, imagine Microsoft trying to compete where the situation is reversed, with the added challenge of facing a market leader who has an untouchable price advantage. Game Over.

Everything that happens to Microsoft in developing countries could just as easily happen in their tradtional markets. In corporate life, there is nothing quite so contagious as the perception that our competitors are saving money by doing something that our company hasn't thought of yet. Working examples of large-scale Linux deployment would be Microsoft's worst nightmare.

University licensing

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like the MSDN academic alliance program.

It's actually a pretty sweet deal if you teach courses using MS dev tools. $800 US per year gets you license for virtually everything remotely related to software development (compilers, Project, Visio, the os, but not Office) provided that it's only used for nonprofit research or educational purposes.

That's for one department, not an institution, but it licenses you for lab machines, faculty, *and* any student who is taking at least one credit course.

You do still need regular licenses for software used for infrastructure purposes (hosting the departmental website, etc). And of course, if you're not already using MS dev tools, gcc is the perfect starving student compiler :)

Re:NONSENSICAL RACISM POST

[Anonymous Coward]

Having discussed countless intelligent topics with Namibians via electronic means, I can assure you that they are all significantly more evolved than you are.

Please explain

[SystematicPsycho]

Did the taliban not refuse aid provided by the United States before being overthrown? Does North Korea not refuse aid by South Korea? Or is this all a global brainwashing tactic by the Illuminati? I wasn't entirely serious about namibia though.

publicity....

[nuwayser]

"Komen says he has no desire to turn his organization into a platform for Microsoft publicity...."

Except that it already has become a platform for Microsoft publicity... just not the kind of publicity Microsoft might want. :-)

Oh, for christ's sake people.....

[Anonymous Coward]

People bitching about $2000? and student copies of MS Office at $100?? For fuck sake.

Have you ever had to buy tools like Oracle, Business Objects, or ETL tools like AbInitio? You're looking at $150,000 and up....and they
don't drop down to $2000 for anyone's sake.

Windows and Office licenses are dirt cheap.

SchoolNet, Namibia: Linux and Censorship

[heby]

While this story from SchoolNet Namibia might give you a warm, fuzzy feeling, I wonder if this story would do that as well; from the article

SchoolNet Namibia Shuts The Door To Porn Portals

[...]

Students surfing the World Wide Web at more than 160 primary, secondary and junior secondary schools in Namibia have now been protected from viewing sexually explicit material, reading hate literature and downloading other forms of objectionable content available online.

[...]

Given that this is a country that already banned foreign TV programs because they turn Namibians gay you can probably guess what other forms of objectionable content might be.

Isn't That Just Something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny how a little-known country in BFE nowhere knows how to "Just Say No" to MS. Now why can't we?

Re:Isn't That Just Something...

[Anonymous Coward]

The ONLY reason they said "no" was because of higher machine costs. Until they found that out they were jumping for joy at giving up thier shitty Linux system for real software! Had they been given everything for free, they would have dumped Linux in the trash in a second.

fordgj contact me

[fwarren]

Hey fordgi

Could you please email me an email address for someone in this group that is refurbishing computers and sending them overseas. I would like to talk to them about costs and what hoops they have to jump through to do this.

Thanks

Times have changed in corporate support for edu

[Anonymous Coward]

Intersting finding in MS's archives about DEC's support for edu, back when times were good:

http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/tim el ine/pdp-1story.htm

Re:Times have changed in corporate support for edu

[Anonymous Coward]

Coward again: Posting procedure introduces space in URL, sorry, please remove space in "timeline"

Unless

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless of course a monied power co-opts it and takes it private. If they happen to then add trivial patents to it, if they throw lawyers at a truly Free version that you or another developed, and crush it using the threat of legal expense, whose to lose anything?

Oh right. Everyone but them.

You lose.

Re:I'm no fan of MS, but...

[symbolic]

What's the difference between MS's pricing, and the endlessly and upwardly-spiraling cost of a college education?

Rated power != actual consumption

[douglips]

If you have a 350 Watt PS, it is capable of producing 350 Watts. It is not obligated to produce this much.

Just as you aren't using all 185 horsepower in your car when you are sitting idle at a red light, or even when crusing at 40 mph, you aren't using your full rated power in your computer. You are never going to have a computer that uses the full rated power of the PS, unless you've added tons of extra components.

A more realistic figure for a computer's power consumption is somewhere in the 50-200 Watt range.

This page has some actual measurements of power usage which suggests that Pentium class machines (including disk) run at between 50-100 Watts, and a monitor will take another 50-70 Watts.

So yes, it is an order of magnitude more than a low-power consumption machine, but your assumptions are overly simplistic.

Microsoft charity

[squarefish]

well, considering the Gates foundation bought Apples for the Maine school district- I don't what else you would call it--

Stupid maybe?

Ah, the contrarians.

[jotaeleemeese]

Windhoek has only 200000 inhabitants.

I am talking *mansions* not houses. You know, thousands of square meters, swimming pools, parking for around 10 cars,

I have been in both Namibia and the US (Houston amongst others, where space is cheap), the houses you can get in Namibia are immensely bigger when compared to what you get in the US for the same amount of money.

And don't dream: there is no way that you can provide full meals for 3 people (drinks, meat in the main meal, etc) with only 4 US$ in the US (I am talking sitting in a restaurant here).

Rated power != actual consumption +4 informative?

[martintt]

Hmm, nice figures and a nice site, I wish I could move some of the spare (and overrated) points from my comments onto this.

I do however run an Athlon 1.4 with a G-force card and a 19 inch monitor (at 100hz) which is displaying mostly white (this page's background), and I know athlons use far more power than an original Pentium, - just compare the heatsinks,

also this table which shows a consumption of over 70 watts for the more modern processors - I seem to remember seeing 90watts quoted as what the newest (2Ghz+) beasts suck.

However I know this is only when the processors are running full pelt, as my CPU cools a few degrees when idling.

I'll certainly accept that unless you are burning CDs (the drives do get hot) and running several hard drives you will not use all 350 watts.

There is still the efficiency factor - when using 200 Watts DC you are drawing a fair bit more AC which is lost in the conversion process.

While I accept noone uses their CD writer constantly and most don't use their processor fully, I'd reckon your figures are an underestimate for most new machines.

I'd be very interested in a more modern page - I was recently looking at powering my pc from a generator or car battery so I'd have liked to know how much juice it needed. (in the end we used a laptop but it wasn't really fast enough).

Just as you aren't using all 185 horsepower in your car ....
I wish :-) it's rated at 42hp but it's certainly not giving that now (uses as much water as petrol). - this is one reason I was dubious about powering a PC off it.

let me clarify

[b17bmbr]

my education professors require that we turn in our work in a specific format (cough, cough). they want a zip disk with our work on it.

i know all about .doc compatibiltiy. i have been using openoffice in my classroom since last year. that wasn't the point.

the teachers put the assignments on.doc format, and it is assumed that we use Word.

in a class last year, we had to review some articles. i submitted y first review in .html created on mozilla composer. on my zip disk, he left a message, "Please submit the reviews in Microsoft Word please".

nuff said.

12%

[tpv]

What about the licensing income?

It would appear as though at least 12% of the invention was funded by the tax payer?
If the univercity owns IP, it does so on behalf of its "share-holders" (for want of a better term), and that income should not be considered to be self-earned.