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Judge Decides X-Men Aren't Human
An anonymous reader points to this Wall Street Journal article, writing "According to the U.S. Court of International Trade, the X-Men (along with other figures from the Marvel universe) aren't human. The presiding judge subjected the figures to "comprehensive examinations" which included "the need to remove the clothes of the figure." Ironically, the X-Men, whose struggle for human acceptance has been a key theme in the series, were more easily classified as non-human than Kraven and Mole Man.
Can't we all just get along?
There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
humans are overrated, bub.
disponibile
I for one would hate to see them lose their voting rights over this. I mean, how do they get driver's licenses now? How is this going to affect the next movie?
Will someone please think of the children?
I am teh faily00r! :( :(
Soooo... am I demented for wanting to bed Rebecca Romijn-Stamos?
Trolling is a art,
The judge is right! The X-men are not dolls. Boys don't play with dolls. They're action figures! Dolls are wussy, action figures are manly! And don't you forget that.
From the article: "The judge found him to be "stout and thick," with "exaggerated troll-like features" and very pale skin -- fitting for someone who lives underground." Ok, all you guys sitting there in your parents basement, are you more mole than human?
Also from the article: "In her chambers at the U.S. Court of International Trade, in New York, the judge examined Prof. X and the rest of his band of X-Men, all of them little plastic figures " 'Nuff said.
Pigs might fly, but don't make breast landing Weird News
Fans Howl in Protest as Judge
... . A decision that the X-Men figures indeed do have 'nonhuman' characteristics further proves our characters have special, out-of-this world powers."
... powers on the side of good or evil." The judge observed how the character Storm, with her flowing white hair and dark skin, "can summon storms at will," while Pyro has a "mutant ability to control and shape flames."
Decides X-Men Aren't Human
Marvel Fought to Have Characters Ruled
Nonhuman to Win Lower Tariff on Toys
By NEIL KING JR.
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Judge Judith Barzilay huddled late last year with a telepathic professor and a cast of mutants to ponder an age-old question: What does it mean to be human?
In her chambers at the U.S. Court of International Trade, in New York, the judge examined Prof. X and the rest of his band of X-Men, all of them little plastic figures at the heart of a six-year tariff battle between their owner, Marvel Enterprises Inc., and the U.S. Customs Service.
Her ruling thundered through the world of Marvel Comics fans. The famed X-Men, those fighters of prejudice sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them, are not human, she decreed Jan. 3. Nor are many of the villains who do battle with Spiderman and the Fantastic Four. They're all "nonhuman creatures," concluded Judge Barzilay.
Marvel subsidiary Toy Biz Inc. pushed Judge Barzilay to declare its heroes nonhuman so it could win a lower duty rate on action figures imported from China in the mid-1990s. At the time, tariffs put higher duties on dolls than toys. According to the U.S. tariff code, human figures are dolls, while figures representing animals or "creatures," such as monsters and robots, are deemed toys.
To Brian Wilkinson, editor of the online site X-Fan (x-mencomics.com/xfan/1), Marvel's argument is appalling. The X-Men -- mere creatures? "This is almost unthinkable," he says. "Marvel's super heroes are supposed to be as human as you or I. They live in New York. They have families and go to work. And now they're no longer human?"
Chuck Austen, current author of Marvel's "Uncanny X-Men" comic-book series, is also incredulous. He has worked hard for a year, he says, to emphasize the X-Men's humanity, to show "that they're just another strand in the evolutionary chain."
Marvel issued this statement: "Don't fret, Marvel fans, our heroes are living, breathing human beings -- but humans who have extraordinary abilities
The X-Men series broke new ground when it began in 1963 by confronting racism and intolerance head-on. The good-hearted mutants rallied around their mentor, the wheelchair-bound Prof. Charles Xavier, to protect mankind, even as humans shunned and despised them.
In 1996, Toy Biz sued Customs in the Court of International Trade, which arbitrates foreign-trade disputes between U.S. companies and the government. Toy Biz said its pantheon of action figures should be classified as toys instead of dolls. Customs insisted the figures are dolls, and thus subject to 12% import duties, instead of the 6.8% rate for toys. Duties have since been eliminated from both categories.
Thus began the great debate over the figures' true being. Barbie is a doll. Pooh Bear's a toy. That much is easy.
But what about Wolverine, the muscular X-Man with the metal claws that jut out from his fists? Wolverine has known many forms in his more than 40 years as a Marvel character. In some comics, he resembles a futuristic robot. In the movie "X-Men," he's a scruffy Canadian who drives a camper until falling under the protection of the telepathic Prof. Xavier, dean of an academy for gifted mutants in suburban New York.
But is he human?
To weigh that question, Judge Barzilay sat down with a sheaf of opposing legal briefs and more than 60 action figures, including Wolverine, Storm, Rogue and Bonebreaker.
Toy Biz, in its filings, pulled no punches. The figures "stand as potent witnesses for their status as nonhuman creatures," the company argued. How could they be humans, Toy Biz said, if they possessed "tentacles, claws, wings or robotic limbs?"
Toy Biz had good cause to pursue this line. Having its action figures declared toys would mean a hefty reimbursement of past duties, though the company declines to give specifics on how much was at stake.
The U.S. government showed more feeling. Each figure had a "distinctive individual personality," the federal legal team argued. Some were Russians, Japanese, black, white, women, even handicapped. Wolverine, the government insisted, was simply "a man with prosthetic hands." Justice Department lawyers who handled the case didn't return calls seeking comment.
Judge Barzilay, through a spokesman, said that she would let her 32-page decision speak for itself. But she described in her ruling how she subjected many of the figures to "comprehensive examinations." At times, that included "the need to remove the clothes of the figure."
The X-Men, oddly, gave her the least trouble. They are mutants, she declared, who "use their extraordinary and unnatural
Thus the X-Men are "something other than human." Case closed.
Tougher for the judge were figures from the Fantastic Four and Spiderman series. Judge Barzilay wrestled at length with Kraven, a famed hunter who once vanquished Spiderman, thanks in part to the strength gained from drinking secret jungle elixirs.
The judge found that Kraven exhibited "highly exaggerated muscle tone in arms and legs." He wore a "lion's mane-like vest." Both features helped relegate him, in the judge's mind, to the netherworld of robots, monsters and devils.
Judge Barzilay conceded that the closest call was the Mole Man, who once blinded the Fantastic Four with searing beams of light. The judge found him to be "stout and thick," with "exaggerated troll-like features" and very pale skin -- fitting for someone who lives underground. Given all that, Judge Barzilay concluded, the Mole Man was more mole than man.
Veteran comics fan Christian Cooper, who once worked as a Marvel editor, thinks Judge Barzilay got carried away. If Kraven isn't human, what about the twisted villains in Dick Tracy? Or worse yet, Superman himself?
"Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
Write to Neil King Jr. at neil.king@wsj.com
Pretty sensationalist headline for the Journal. For those who didn't read the article, it's about whether the X-Men figurines are toys or dolls. Obviously the status of fictional characters as "human" or not is completely absurd, and not at all what the case was about.
X-Men fans should stop whining and go play with their dolls.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
...is Commander Riker!
He's got experience with this stuff.
~D:
Next think you know, they might rule that statues aren't human... then houses... WHAT NEXT?! What is the world coming to?!! I mean, they might declare that.... >_> _ Fish aren't human! NOOOOO! Not the fish! On a somewhat serious note, it was kinda an underhanded trick to get around the tariff...
--- Ãther SPOON!
I guess it's just a matter of time until the Sentinels arrive. Better start filling out that application to the Hellfire Club right about now...
~jeff
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
Brotherhood of Mutants
when as we all know the proper, grandiose, toungue-in-cheek name was
Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants
I mean, of course they're not human. The question is, are they eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil?
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Another excellent example that our judicial system is full of garbage and generally fscked up.
A humanoid in yellow spandex was spotted in Washington, DC the other day, madly yelling "I am not an X-man! I am a HUMAN BEING!!!!"
This sig no verb.
<comic geek pedant mode>
It's Spider-Man, not Spiderman
</cgpm>
And Superman was never human - he was always Kryptonian!
a world in progress...
Of course they aren't U-Men, they're X-Men.
Before the comic book geeks get worked up about "They may not be Homo Sapiens, but they're human dammit", it's just a stupid tax matter. There used to be different import taxes on "dolls" and "toys". The guv'mint said the Marvel figures were dolls because they're human figures and wanted them taxed at twice the rate of toys. Marvel disagreed and won.
The taxes have since been repealed. Nothing to see here.
-B
No, seriously. What?
This has to be the worst pick for news I've seen on slashdot yet.
Okay, the blurb on Slashdot was really confusing and left me with "WTF, why do I care?"
So, I did a rare thing, I read the article!
Basically, this is a trial over getting some money back from customs for Toy Biz since they were taxed over the dolls rate, instead of the toys rate (doll is 2x toys custom duties). (Eh... cheaper 'toys' in the future, maybe). Comic book readers howl over protest because the Xmen were all about people who are different from the socially accepted norm trying to be accepted as regular humans, but end up being shunned.
Now... replace "Xmen" with "geeks and nerds", maybe this explains our self-imposed exile to dark server rooms and lack of girlfriends?
Why must our courts be tied up with this kind of thing? It is truly sad when a judge has to decide whether a fictional character is considered human or not just so a corporation can make some more money.
Those mutie freaks are a menace! As long as their around, us norms will never be safe!
"The judge found him to be "stout and thick," with "exaggerated troll-like features" and very pale skin -- fitting for someone who lives underground. Given all that, Judge Barzilay concluded, the Mole Man was more mole than man."
Sorry, Ron, back to the farm with you.
-=Best Viewed Using [INLINE]=-
No, sir, I didn't see you playing with your dolls again, sir!
~D:
it took a judge to figure this out?
This is a serious setback... for Barbie's divorce from Ken. Not only is she not entitled to alamony because she is non-human, the marriage wasn't even legal in the first place.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
The X-Men, oddly, gave her the least trouble. They are mutants, she declared, who "use their extraordinary and unnatural ... powers on the side of good or evil."
Yes, but aren't all humans mutants? (I guess it all depends on which theory you believe: evolution or creation.) Humans use their powers for good and evil.
But she described in her ruling how she subjected many of the figures to "comprehensive examinations." At times, that included "the need to remove the clothes of the figure."
Doesn't this sentance make you think the whole article is fake?
Bugs are just features that have been fixed.
Your tax dollars (a lot of them) are being used for a judge, swarms of US customs officials, and a bunch of lawyers to sit around and try and figure out the true nature of a bunch of action figures. What a country!
Is it just me, or is America becoming more and more of a police state? I think I will move to Canada or France, because those are really great non socialist countries that value personal freedoms. This all started when George Bush Jr. became president. This country used to be a utopia up until 2 years ago! To bad Al Gore didn't become president, even though he did win! Also too bad that all white men are evil and always have been. You can't tell me this isn't true! I saw it on television and heard it in a speech at my college. I am so worried and have no job. I think its because I know the truth about everything and nobody wants to hire me because I know things.
OK kids. A 32-page ruling on whether or not the X-Men are human or non-human, due to a 6.8% vs 12% import duty differential charged seven years ago, a duty that isn't even in effect anymore.
How many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars got spent on lawyers - both from Marvel's shareholders for their lawyers and our tax dollars being spent on the Government's lawyers - in the case leading up to this ruling - a ruling that took seven years after the initial dispute hit the courts?
In the world of the X-Men, something would have broken by now, but the real world has no superheroes to save us.
Isn't it time we called our Congressmen/women and demanded, on pain of our voting for third parties, that they put the tax law genie back in the bottle?
Anyone? Bueller?
So..If by some act of god, radiation, whatever, I gain some odd ability similiar to that of a super hero, I am denyed all the privilages of a normal citizen?
Sure, you can laugh and say it will never happen, but IT COULD.
Veteran comics fan Christian Cooper, who once worked as a Marvel editor, thinks Judge Barzilay got carried away. If Kraven isn't human, what about the twisted villains in Dick Tracy? Or worse yet, Superman himself?
"Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
I think it's clear that this so-called "comics fan" is'nt a true fan, everyone knows Superman is'nt human, he's from Krypton.
Worst. Fan. Ever.
decided this was not the First Post on account of Slashdot being too slow to load.
X-Men's Wolverine: Man or beast?
Well, it's obvious the WSJ reporter didn't do the examination. Beast has blue fur (whenever the Marvel writers aren't messing with his mutation), and there's no way in the world could he be confused with Wolverine.
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
Best. Death troll. Ever.
Doesn't Marvel make figures of 100% human characters? Rick Banner... well, even the Punisher was 100% human, wasn't him?
Will someone need to classify them indivually?
not to get too geeky here (HA!), but the New X-Men series being put out these days is really quite good. They've given the book to writer Grant Morrison, who wrote The Invisibles, Batman Arkham Asylum, Animal Man, and loads of other great comics. He's part of the reason comics will eventually find their way into college-level literature classes. make sure to get the New X-Men books though, (there are as many variants of x-men comics as there are linux distros) and all the other ones are just cotton candy fluff by comparison.
disponibile
The way I remember it, all X-men, and all mutants, for that matter belong to the species Homo Superior, and if I remember my Carl von Linné correctly (and I think I do) that means theyre not human. Theyre part of the same family (as Cro-Magnon and other prehistoric species) but not being the same species as humans, they arent humans. Why did it take her so long, unless she enjoyed playing, dressing and undressing the dolls. I know I would... Id undress Rogue and then.... Never you mind.
then what the hell is a Ken doll?
Great, now Mattel's gonna SLAPP my ass.
... at least Michael Jackson will have to pay taxes now.
"The judge found that Kraven exhibited "highly exaggerated muscle tone in arms and legs.""
.. if exaggerated musles make craven nonhuman
This begs the question
Could we at least describe them as "naturalized" humans? It feels wrong that Marvel the company is more human than the X-men.
The official definition of a member of a species is one who can successfully interbreed, hence huskies are of the same species as poodles, whereas cats cannot. Has Marvel addressed this key question?
This Sig is a mnemonic device designed to allow you to recognize this author in the future.
This is false I was married to a woman who could shoot lightening bolts from her eyes, and fly off into the clouds, of course my wife needed a broomstick, but thats a judgement call.
-- "of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller
*SIGH* The only thing better than good old American Science Fiction is the good old American legal system. Beyond this being a hopelessly stupid case (can you imagine being paid $400 an hour to observe a judge taking an action-figures clothes off?) the philosohpical implications are pretty nasty. Basically this judge is saying that in order to be human you have to have physical human characteristics. Forget about Data, or artificial intelligence, or a more advanced biological form of Homo Sapien, no matter what is in your "soul" if you don't LOOK human, you aren't.
Madam Tetrachromat
:)
Faster loading link of article in text format.
All mutant tetrachromats are female, so keep your eye on em!
"The judge found that Kraven exhibited "highly exaggerated muscle tone in arms and legs.""
.. if exaggerated musles make craven nonhuman than what about Barbie's extremely small waist size?
This begs the question
It always amazes me how issues are sometimes settled using laws that have nothing to do with the original question. Who would have thought that a tax law would be used to determine if Wolverine is human?
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
No,it means HE AIN'T REAL!
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to walk my Incredible Hulk.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Holy crap.
These are toys, not people. Weather deemed "human" or not, they are not alive.
Are these people so engrossed in this fantasy life that this ruling concerns them? If so, why don't they just light up the bat signal or whatever and have their X-Men go take care of this judge?
Oh, that's right....they're not real. i almost forgot.
"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force." -William Blum
Summary: Marvel wanted the items to be declared non-human to shoehorn them into an arbitrary category that incurred less import tax.
This is an affront to the X-Men theme of intolerance in only the most semantical, BS way imaginable.
My
Limekiller
We must protect the rights of Fictional-Americans, lest their rights be trampled on like so many subscription inserts!
If we don't defend their rights, Who Will Be Next?
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
The fact that anyone was upset about this is very disturbing to me. Marvel wanted to get their action figures classified as 'toys' instead of 'dolls' so they could pay less tariff. Whoopee. Fans are 'up in arms'? Give me a break.
Once again, the US government in it's narrow-minded thinking chooses ot exclude an entire race of people just for being different...irony that it happen on MLK day.
X-Men fans demand to pay more for there toys!
Jeez people, it's just a ploy by Marvel to get a lower tarif on the toys that are made in China.
And finally,
Jeez people, its a fictional work, not your Opus.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
To Brian Wilkinson, editor of the online site X-Fan (x-mencomics.com/xfan/), Marvel's argument is appalling. The X-Men -- mere creatures? "This is almost unthinkable," he says. "Marvel's super heroes are supposed to be as human as you or I. They live in New York. They have families and go to work. And now they're no longer human?"
Somehow I doubt the X-Men are as human as I am. They live in glossy 8.5x11 pages, not NY. They have subplots, not families. And they are no longer (nor have they ever been) REAL. This is beside the point, though. A toy company wants payback for tariffs because it thinks its product was incorrectly classified as representative of humans. I think its safe to say that the X-Men have some elements outside of humanity.
"Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
I hate to be picky, but I have to point out this line in the WSJ article, even if it just proves what a geek I am.
"Wolverine has known many forms in his more than 40 years as a Marvel character."
Wolverine's first appearance was in 1974, in The Incredible Hulk #180. That would give him about 28 years in the Marvel universe.
According to the plot of Superman, he shares no DNA with us, he just happens to be roughly the same shape because evolution on Kryton followed a Parallel path.
On the other hand, Spider-man IS human, in fact according to the plot of the comic, he was a perfectly normal person up to the point in the story that he was bitten. Peter Parker dolls definitely should have been subject to the tax, according to the (admittedly very dumb) rules.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
A lot of the judge's arguments that were referenced toward the end of the article suggested that she looked at how realistic the figures were in comparison to human attributes.
Could this be a precedent that Mattel could use to collect past duties by having Barbie classified as non-human? I've seen freak-of-nature, steroid-pumped bodybuilders who could pass for some of those X-Men action figures but I have yet to see a woman with Barbie's build.
Damn...sometimes life seems like nothing more than a perverse source of material for episodes of "The Simpsons."
This is all absurd. The real problem here is that the United States has absurd laws that punish the consumer and some companies and give special favors to other businesses who have paid off corrupt politicians by continuing the lie that there should be any difference in import tax on a Barbie toy than an X-men toy. Marvel didn't have the balls to argue this in court, they played along with the system and let the big issue that the taxes are blaitantly unfair and uneven. They were rewarded for playing along and not questioning the fundamental corrupt system by beng allowed to pay the lower tax.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
The article is actually on the front page of the deadtree version of the WSJ, a place I really thought I'd never see a little plastic Wolvie.
It's either an incredibly slow news day over there, or the wacky assistant-front page editor is filling in while the boss takes a three-day weekend or something. Wow.
"Understand you're having a little Jimmy Page trouble."
was the related ruling that the X-Men weren't actually real.
To Brian Wilkinson, editor of the online site X-Fan, Marvel's argument is appalling. The X-Men -- not real? "This is almost unthinkable," he says. "Marvel's super heroes are as real as you or I. They live in New York. They have families and go to work. How could they possibly be figments of someone's imagination?"
Anyways my point is that the tarif laws need to be examined to see if they categorize things the way they really want to, and when the categories are good then you won't see as many silly fights to jump from one category to another.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
It's just an amusing irony that after years fighting to convince a world that they're human in the comics, in real life the makers argue that they're not.
Anyway, that - in itself - is the whole point. You can laugh now. Or not. It loses a bit when it gets explained.
They make the story a little more interesting by talking to a couple of comics fans, who either take it all a little too seriously, or are simply willing to play to the stereotype to get their name in the paper. This is one of the rare cases where I'd suggest Don't RTFA.
Wonder if the judge will still have to deliberate over the important legal question of whether or not X-Men are fictional non-humans. I also wonder what governmental body is wasting everybody's time with this.
From the article:
Veteran comics fan Christian Cooper, who once worked as a Marvel editor, thinks Judge Barzilay got carried away. If Kraven isn't human, what about the twisted villains in Dick Tracy? Or worse yet, Superman himself? "Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
No, he's Kryptonian you nitwit. What a kneejerk reaction!
THIS IS OVER IMPORT DUTIES CLASSIFICATION FOR CRIPES SAKE! Who gives a groundhog's fanny if they call Superman a "cup of water with a straw hanging off the end?"
My
Limekiller
Veteran comics fan Christian Cooper, who once worked as a Marvel editor, thinks Judge Barzilay got carried away. If Kraven isn't human, what about the twisted villains in Dick Tracy? Or worse yet, Superman himself?
"Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
Isn't Superman from another plannet? I think that would make him less human than anyone.
http://www.thewhig.com/webapp/sitepages/content.as p?contentid=19963&catname=Local+News
I'm kind of looking forward to cases over whether robots and uplifted meerkats and kids with tendencies toward dyslexia deleted from their genome and such are human. Cuz' It's The Business of the Future to Be Dangerous.*
Stefan
* Alfred North Whitehead.
Do we really need the lawyers in on this one? They're plastic for Christ's sake!!!
Ha! Just remember Judith! I've got the Daily Bugle on my side, and if there's any funny business going on, these pictures that Parker took are going in the afternoon edition!!
Angrily Signed with Desk Pounding Action,
J. Jonah Jameson
...is here
Disclaimer: The following post contains humor like substances.
Only a mutant could sustain a bust like Jean's for all these years.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled weblog.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Marvel issued this statement: "Don't fret, Marvel fans, our heroes are living, breathing human beings -- but humans who have extraordinary abilities ... . A decision that the X-Men figures indeed do have 'nonhuman' characteristics further proves our characters have special, out-of- this world powers."
Did anyone else hear Stan Lee's voice in the back of their head when reading that?
Followed by hearing comic book guy say: "Worst...comment...ever".
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Just because they used to be men and changed their gender doesn't mean they are less human than we are.
Oh wait, i thought we're talking about transvestites (EX-men)...
I don't know guys, I don't believe that even Barbie doll is human. She is humanoid for sure, but the waist to breast to hip ratio shows that she could not function normally as a human being, she must be some sort of a mutant or an alien with half of normal organs and made of titanium or at least carbon fiber to support the structure above the waist.
You can't handle the truth.
I should beat you senseless for that.
(jus' kiddin')
This is one of those articles that really raises the question "As an American, am I morally required to kill the people and politicians who make such brain numbingly stupid things possible?"
I don't even want to know how much money was spent by the government on this case. While, yes, from a business perspective, it is an issue of some small import, this is the type of thing that should make any self-respecting judge literally throw the gavel at the plaintiffs. And I mean literally throw the gavel at them. Instead she sits around and plays house with Wolverine and Mole Man. Which is disturbing in and of it self.
Yes, I'm sure this will be modded down, but damnit, it needed to be said.
Mod Points: Helping you keep your opinion to yourself.
This is Martin Luther King Day and the best /. can come up with that remotely pays respect to it is to post an article about the subhuman consideration of fictional characters.
How about we take care of issues dealing with real people in the real world first and then move onto trivial and completely fabricated realities.
____
ATS11=0 the secret to beating everyone else to a 1 line board.
I hate it when the cut+paste misses. Try here instead.
I like the guy at the end that was complaining about the prospect of Superman not being considered human. He's from the planet Krypton! Humans come from Earth!
This is more proof that Humans are not willing to co-exist with us mutants! When will you all wake up and see that? Join us now in the fight for self-defense before it is too late!
What does that say of the subject matter that it was inspired from??... to me it would be an action figure of some crazy nut that perhaps goes to the gym a tad too much... but the law would suggest otherwise seeing that its obviously not capturing a human in it's representation.
Honestly... reading the article it seems that the judge goes out on a limb trying to justify her answers... hell... a gypsy fortuneteller that can tell you the future would not be considered human seeing that there the obvious costume and overuse of makeup would definitely not make them human.
Sometime in the technicalities of the law the obvious gets lost.,
But that's my 2 cents.
They're mutants jeez. Be it mutants with big racks and packages but still mutants.
It makes no sense at all. Why should dolls be taxed at one rate, and toys at another? I think they must have got some guy who was too clever to do a simple job, so he gave as complicated a result as he could. They asked "what should be the duty on toys", and he said "Well, clearly we have several classes of toy. The basic toy should have a dity of $x. However, since a doll clearly costs us considerably more money for some unexplained reason, we should charge $y. Now then, by squaring this and taking the reciprocal......"
The result is that we get these stupid long winded legal arguments that cost cusatoms and the court system time and money that would have been better spent on just about anything. Just work out a weighted average and apply the result to all toys and dolls.
I distincly remember playing with my G.I. Joe and Star Wars toys as a child and vehemently arguing that they were ACTION FIGURES and not dolls. Real men don't play with dolls. So X-Men fans, you should rejoice that you haven't yet another stigma to try and shrug off.
When in the hell was Wolverine ever a robot? There were some X-Ray pictures of his skeleton that looked very robot like and In Days of Future Past when he got blasted his skeleton looked Terminator like, but I don't think he ever looked like a robot...
Onward to the Aether Sphere!
Why is everyone making such a fuss about these "mute ants" ... since when do we care about a bunch of insects who can't talk?
First off, yes there is plenty of irony in both the descision and marvel pushing it Second, I do disagree with it and think the rulling is questionable and probably stupid but three Who really cares too much. They are toys and the ruling does allow them and "their message" to be spread easier. It toys, not real people. Cool it folks until real mutants start showing up. By the standards the judge seemed to use, most people with disabilities would be classified non human probably, so this clearly is following the real world i do think the judge's desciosion is very questionable, but lets cool it we've alreayd proven that the real world is more forgiving than said judge Relax
Disney made a marvelous little cartoon of the story in 1954.
I've read many times, in many different places, that the superheroes and villians of the Marvel Universe are *not* human at all because of their slight forward step in the evolutionary process. We are 'homo sapiens' they (collectively) are 'homo superior.'
Superman (and any other alien--and yes, I know full well Superman is a DC creation, so I'm not mixing companies here) would fall into the family of 'extraterrestrialis.'
So with that, it's clear that they are not human, and their plasic representations, although possessing humanoid forms, are not humans (as are you and me.)
As that description covers most geeks, it would appear everyone now has to use freight services, rather than human transports. That's right, you have to take freight elevators, and when traveling, be stowed away under the seat or in the overhead compartments.
Despite the effects of this ruling, no-one but the EFF is appealing. Members of the ACLU say they are quite happy with the arrangement.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
"If Kraven isn't human, what about the twisted villains in Dick Tracy? Or worse yet, Superman himself?"
;)
Ummm... no... Superman is definately NOT human, he's from the planet Krypton, DUHH! (Thumps arm against chest)
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Customs insisted the figures are dolls, and thus subject to 12% import duties, instead of the 6.8% rate for toys. Duties have since been eliminated from both categories.
Captain Pointless has saved us yet again!
End communication!
So since Spock is half human/half vulcan, for trade purposes is he human or not?
What about Guinan? Is she human? Nope. Just looks it.
Stormtroopers? Are they human? Well that depends. Was Jango Fett human? Even if he is (probably) do cloned humans count as dolls or toys?
I could go on like this all day...
Huh?
I fail to see how this is sensationalist. This ruling will be used in the future as a previous case reference to exclusionary reasoning for determining humanity. That is specifically bad.
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
about the Marilyn Manson action figure I just picked up?
Its not a doll its an action figure! There's a difference.... Your just picking on me becuase you're insecure.
_________________________
OnRoad Tempering detroit iron with our own hot air since, well, last week.
As a long term WSJ reader (my dad has subscribed me since I was in college, I highly recomend it as a paper) there are some formatting issues to know about this article. The WSJ has for as long as I know about run a human interest/humorous article in the center column of the front page. These usually have SOME tie to the business world, but are selected I believe for whimsy, humor value. This article was todays Page 1 center column article, take it for what it is worth.
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Just a thought:
Now, ultimately, the science behind the human species mutating such that super-powered, stable, "mutants" a la the X-men is pretty far-fetched.
However, let's say that there is a finite, non-zero, but incredibly small chance that it *could* happen.
If so, would this ruling have any precedent if such a case, in the future, where human mutants actually exist and try to claim equal rights as human beings?
"Don't mind me cutting myself on Occam's Razor"
I just tried to get to mutantwatch, and I got re-directed to some damned pro-mutant website.
Somebody has got to DO something about the mutant threat.
The only reason hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars got spent on lawyers is because the corporation was fighting having to pay its taxes.
If people would simply pay their share, and quit trying to get special treatment, taxes would be lower all around.
The fact is that the X-men weren't humans. They were mutants. Their genetic sequence was different enough from homo sapien sapien such that they had amazing powers unknown to the human world in the same way that we have amazing powers unknown to the cromagnon world. X-men and other mutants are the next step in our eveolution.
The real issue at stake in their universe is whether or not the framers of the constitution would include the X-men under "We the people" and other such important phrases. The constitution talks of "people," not humans. I feel that yes, the X-men are people and should have the same constitutional protections as other people, but they aren't human.
-no broken link
people need to stop and fucking think for like a second. of _course_ they're not human. spider-man is a genetically mutated metahuman, wolverine's a cyborg augment, etc...
my favorite quote:
"Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
no you moron, it means he's a SPACE ALIEN.
his kryptonian biological makeup was enhanced by the light from earth's yellow sun, remember?
batman and robin, on the other hand, are just a couple of best buds who wear capes.
this ain't religion people, it's law. just read the damn books and the answer is fairly obvious.
Tetris rules.
For those who don't know, the WSJ has had a long tradion (for at least as long as I can remember) of carrying an 'eclectic' story in Column 4 of the front page. Over the years I've seen stories as offbeat as the underground passion for eating illegal fungi in Europe.
So while the stories are 'serious' in the sense that they adhere to the same standards of journalism as the rest of the paper, they are meant to be amusing.
In other words, there's an implied smiley on column 4.
Who actually defines what's human? Are deformed people not human?
I was born with a genetic disease which makes my chest curved in, called Marfan Syndrome. It's not horrible, you only notice when I take off my shirt, and even there it's not disgusting, it's just odd, and I'm very pale, enough to scare doctors, and my limbs and fingers are a bit longer than normal, and my knees and thumbs are double jointed so I can bend in odd ways, and I have a fast metabolism so I never really get fat, I stay really skinny, but the tradeoff is my heart could literally blow up someday... Add all that together, does that mean I'm not human? That'd be pretty cool, actually, apart from the fact that I'd probably have less rights then a dog or a cat.
Abe Lincoln was a Marfan, he might not have been a human either!
sure, they're supposed to be human...blah blah blah...morality of x-men...blah blah blah. but if you get to the heart of the ruling, it is EXTREMELY relieving to know that for all of these years Ive been playing with toys and not dolls!
Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
-Dr. Weird
Marvel subsidiary Toy Biz Inc. pushed Judge Barzilay to declare its heroes nonhuman so it could win a lower duty rate on action figures imported from China in the mid-1990s. At the time, tariffs put higher duties on dolls than toys. According to the U.S. tariff code, human figures are dolls, while figures representing animals or "creatures," such as monsters and robots, are deemed toys. The problem is with the intepretation of the line "human figures are dolls". What it should be taken to mean is that any figure which resembles a human being even one which dresses up strangely should be consider a doll. Thus wolverine is a doll. ie. man in funny suit with fake claws sticking out. Note: that the actual story and history of the character is irrelevant. It's what the figure resembles. Spiderman is a doll. Moleman is a doll. Man with growth disorder. The thing is a monster.
Monkey ==> Homo Sapiens ==> X-Men
Not Human ==> Human ==> Not Human
The philosohpical cuestion is. If you are more evoluted than a human, have you human rights?
How the law will be with other intelligent species?
I think money will rule.
the X-men are the evolution of humanity current humans are therefor no more human than X-men compared to humans 1000 years ago...
have sucked real bad, for a long time now. Ever since the team of Claremont/Byrne/Austin left the book, it has been a shade of what it once was. But it will keep chugging along so long as the kiddies keep buying.
But does that mean they can sell naked x-men toys, because they 'aren't human?'
I think it's great that our government sued the corporate bastards for being the hypocrites that they are... emphasizing as a #1 philosophical point in the X-Men storyline that the mutant X-Men, despite phobias from society were human just like the rest of us... and then when it came to tax purposes, declaring just the opposite.
A Federal suit was worth every penny in my book.
--A US taxpayer who has read maybe a dozen issues of the X-Men and hasn't seen the movie
After a throrough examination by the judge, she determined the X-Men figures could not, in fact, interbreed with humans.
No, it just means no more income tax!! I wonder if the tax break is retroactive...
Time to look for spiders around old uranium mines.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Since the subcontracted to company (not marvel, I think it was Toy-Biz) won, they'll be reimbursed.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
All this means is that the company you sell your action figure rights to will only be taxed at 6% rather then 12% for importing them from china, should they travel back in time and import them when these taxes were still in effect.
I'm assuming that your super power had something to do with time travel...
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
hmm... how about:
What in the would would make you pick up (let along PAY FOR) a Marilyn Manson action figure?
[backtrace a bit] they make Marilyn Manson action figures?
And to think that it's a pain in the butt to find Marilyn Monroe dolls...
He's having a bad day.
horribly, horribly wrong. why in hells name is a judge spending taxpayer's money on deciding this!!! truth is stranger than fiction.
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
That said, the WSJ does indeed have fresh and interesting stories and writing. Just don't assume that the first time you see a story in the WSJ is the first time that story has actually appeared in print.
It seems a great many people feel the need to remind comic book fans that the characters aren't real; we know.
This case has nothing to do with such delusions. Fictional characters can still be classified as depictions of humans or non-humans. Winnie the Pooh - non-human. Sherlock Holmes - human. Neither real. Clear enough?
Having gotten that out of the way, I think it is a genuinely interesting case; silly on the face of it, but it does say interesting things about how narrowly concepts of humanity can be defined.
I agree with the poster who suggested that if Kraven isn't human because of his exaggerated muscle tone and leopard-vest, then Barbie is DEFINITELY not human.
To Brian Wilkinson, editor of the online site X-Fan (x-mencomics.com/xfan/), Marvel's argument is appalling. The X-Men -- mere creatures? "This is almost unthinkable," he says. "Marvel's super heroes are supposed to be as human as you or I.
Yes, but you should note that THE X-MEN ARE A CARTOON!
The "outcry" against this is so astoundingly retarded that I had to respond. Seriously, even the Simpson's Comic-Book Guy wouldn't give a fark about this.....
Funny about the judge's inspection though...
---
Posted as AC for Obvious Reasons...
I went to see if I could find Judge's opinion online. Indeed, it is! In PDF form, I bring you Toy Biz, Inc. v. United States.
For those of you decrying our taxpayer dollars going to waste on such a suit, it appears some at least is being used to make such decisions more accessible, a fact which I hope we can all agree upon.
Personally, I think it was worth every penny to expose a fantastic example of corporate hypocracy. I read maybe a dozen X-Men comics (and didn't see the movie) and the main philosophical point I saw that the series revolved around (besides raw action) was that the X-Men should in fact be considered human despite their 'mutant' powers.
Given that, what could be more hypocritical than turning around and claiming that, while for storyline purposes the X-Men should be considered human, but for tax purposes, they are not.
But maybe I should read the Judge's opinion first. It's long, so I'm posting the link here before I read. Based on the first paragraph, it looks like the matter never went to a full trial and was decided in a pre-trial 'summary judgement'.
--LP
So, the X-Men are non-human for purposes of Tariffs. Of course, legally, in the US, tomatoes are vegetables, not fruits, for purposes of tariffs. (For basically the same reason: tariff differences between classes.) The result of the decision: tariff rates on the two product categories were equalized.
"Marvel subsidiary Toy Biz Inc. pushed Judge Barzilay to declare its heroes nonhuman so it could win a lower duty rate on action figures imported from China in the mid-1990s. At the time, tariffs put higher duties on dolls than toys. According to the U.S. tariff code, human figures are dolls, while figures representing animals or "creatures," such as monsters and robots, are deemed toys."
However, what I really don't understand is why they still bothered with the classification? Article says:
"Customs insisted the figures are dolls, and thus subject to 12% import duties, instead of the 6.8% rate for toys. Duties have since been eliminated from both categories."
So if the duties have been eliminated, why did the judge make the ruling on Jan. 3?
Ah this explains it: "Toy Biz had good cause to pursue this line. Having its action figures declared toys would mean a hefty reimbursement of past duties..."
But I still think the judge was coerced.
It is plastic
it looks like a weasel
I can't believe I'm even commenting on this but here goes...
My impression is that the judge based her decision on the appearance of the toy, and speculation on the nature of what they saw based on their own experience. Wolf had prosthetic hands. A man could have these things, but wait, he has exaggerated muscles. Monster.
Imagine a line of toys similar to the X-Men, where the backstory is that they were smart and genetically altered themselves (minor) and added lots of prosthetics and cool weapons. Kind of like your average soldier who takes steroids. Obviously human right?
Imagine an identical line of toys where the backstory is that the super features evolved based on their origin being from another planet and all the materials for the prosthetics, while metallic, actually grew right out of their skin.
Identical toys, different backstories. One is clearly monsters according to the judge's method, the other humans.
The flaw is obviously using the appearance and guesses on the backstory to make the judgment.
Ask any kid what "Doll" vs. "Toy" is. A "Doll" is any item targeted to Girls Only. Boys don't play with dolls, they play with action figures. A toy that is geared toward boys OR girls, is a "toy" not a doll.
Barbie? Girls only, doll.
Gi-Joe, Xmen? Toys.
But what about the infamous Glo-Worm? I recall my kid brother had one and loved it. That thing looked as much like a doll than anything - it was plush for crissakes.
I guess at this point you just realize it's good that they abolished those doll vs toy categories. It doesn't solve the issue of back-duties though for Toy Biz.
I think the solution is to declare the very existence of the higher 12% tax unfair based on the method of categorization and thus, the gov't owes Toy Biz the difference between the 12% and the lower duty tax.
# Erik
Imagine getting half of the money you paid in taxes back. That is what we are talking about. The government must now refund the taxes.
Saying that these are action figures and not dolls is one thing, but saying that these are not human characters is absolutely wrong. marvell sold out!
I hope this doesn't set a precedent for when mutants/clones/cyborgs are a part of society.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
Good to see where the American Justice spend its money, buying and bullshiting about dolls and stuff.
This may seem like a waste of the court's time, but the point is taxation, not the actual nature of the X-Men. Years ago I read that a state Supreme Court in the U.S. ruled that deveined shrimp are tastier than the non-deveined kind. Then and now, it was all about money. Well alrighty then.
Why a court should care about this is beyond me.
what a bunch of lame asses...
they do this to save money, not to make a political statement.
'tards.
So, if I were to have some sort of genetic abnormality, such as a congenital heart defect or sickle-cell anemia, does that mean I would be "something other than human"? Does that mean I would no longer enjoy my "inalienable human rights" or have to pay taxes (since I'm now the equivalent of a dog)?
Show me what you want, and I'll show you how to get along without it...
The people you're correcting with regards to comicbook spelling minutiae are the same ones who don't know the difference between "loose" and "lose" :)
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
Thanks for pointing out the factoid on race. It's something I learned while taking frosh anthro and later had confirmed by someone in the bio department. It seems to me that people just love talking about different "races" b/c they like to stress the differences between all of us rather than all of the things we have in common. Like how we talk about "white" and "black" people when we're all really shades of pink and brown.
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
If Jesus was an action figure would he be a doll or a toy?
P.S. The kind of rant you indulged in is why everyone sees Libertarians as a bunch of whiners.
I too love quoting the inimitable Berke Breathed, but I'm afraid you missed the parent's point. It's not that he thinks taxes are too high (the Libertarian's lament), but that taxes are too fscking complicated! Don't you dare tell me you think the Tax Code is simple, I'll call you a liar to your face!
It's time for the politcians to realize that the tax code eats away lots of time and energy and is horribly ineffecient. It eats away at productivity.
And am I the only one who thinks making public policy through the Tax Code is fscking idiotic?!?! You want college to be cheaper? How about instead of a godamn tax credit you just pay part of a student's tuition? Either way, it's money lost for the general treasury (lost revenue versus increased expenditure) but this way maybe there's one less thing we have to worry about come tax time. One less receipt, one less call to the overpaid CPA.
I predict that we won't simplify our ridiculous system for at least 100 years (and that's probably a rather hopeful estimate).
P.S. For the record, I don't think taxes are too high, esp. for the uber-wealthy who always weasel out of them (thanks again, tax code!)
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
Well, I guess coming out of the closet is out of the question.
On to plan B.
Lessee here... Superman, not human. Green Lantern, human. Flash, human. Wonder Woman, not human. Martian Manhunter, not human. Batman (and many Gotham baddies, except Clayface and post-decapitation Mr. Freeze), human...
Seems DC still would have to pay the higher tariff.
Happiness is relative, Based upon the way we live.
--K.
Sig: Bad people happen. Try to avoid being one of them.
my Jesus Christ action figure with posable arms and legs? Want to make a ruling on that one? What would Jesus tax? (WWJT)
Experts agree: everything is fine.
Since this judge is supposed to have average to above-average intellect, education, and understanding; and being it quite improbable that the judge in question never saw any of the "Planet of The Apes" movies (or anything similar, from "Dr. Moreau's Island" and "The Day the Earth Stopped", onwards), let alone ever read deeply regarding about humanity or philosophy - it logically follows that said judge has cravenly submitted to degenerate evil's dictates on the matter.
In spirit, this is the same attitude that caused jews, blacks, indians, non-christians, non-neander..., er, "non-whites", non-greeks, etc. to be considered "non-human", by judges, back through the ages.
That's why, no matter how many "Bi-Centennial Man" type stories are cranked out, and how corny they might seem, they will always be necessary and will never be enough.
This is the sort of thing judges should get right. This is the sort of thing judicial systems should keep from happening. "In dubio pro re", keeps popping into mind. Similar principle can be traced back to Hammurabi's Code - a poor freeman paid less for several transgressions than landowners, or religious or royal officials did.
No judge can ignore that his job always has repercussions, contributes to precedent and lends itself to cause from then onward.
Justice, and humanity, have been done a grievous disservice.
It's the same logic that amply blessed legal sterilization of "subnormals" throughout the 20th century, USA included.
Da Judge's ruling nestles a snake which guarantees that, when neat or not-so-neat manipulations be done upon us in the immediate future, or upon our children, friends, or whatever - there will be legal basis to consider them, legally, as not "enemy combatants", err..., I mean, not Human.
Still referring to that judge's ruling, peoples "non-humanity" shall henceforth be partially determined by their exagerated appearance and skills.
Elephant-men, geeks, freaks, blockheads, and all others : beware. Evil creeps in high places.
As unfortunate as it is, race does exist, see this months issue of scientific american.
Judges rule that x-wives aren't human either.
Dawn of the Dead
So how does this reflect on people who are living amoungst us today?
Let's take a look, shall we?
Personally, while finding this slightly amusing... it is also quite disheartening. To see the elements of what make us human being overshadowed by the cold objective dissection and sorting of who is... and who isn't completely human.
truely sad... that a judge would make such a judgement without either thinking of the consequences, or wording the judgement more appropriately. I'm just waiting for the lawyers to pounce on this one, pouring over legal documents for references to "human"... or businesses deciding that it doesn't need to give health care to some of it's employees because they really aren't "human"...
Winged Power Photography
Scientists have never been able to agree on the definition of a species. In high school biology, they often teach that the ability to interbreed indicates that two organisms are the same species. This is a naive view.
There are numerous cases where organisms that were once the same species still retain the ability to interbreed even after much genetic drift. As a species begins to "speciate" due to geographical separation, etc., the various distinct groups of individuals may still be sufficiently similar genetically to interbreed, even if they have begun to differ greatly genetically/physiologically. It is unclear at what point two fairly distinct groups of animals become different species.
A good example of this is homo sapiens (us) and Neanderthals. It's believed that these two different species may have had the ability to interbreed, and that they did so, even though they had very different mental capacity, physiology, social structure, and so on.
So, simply because the X-Men look like humans (for the most part), have mostly similar physiologies to humans, have families and breed with humans, etc., it is not clear that they are actually human. It largely depends on genes - how much do they differ genetically from the human population at large. If it's just a matter of a few genes here or there, then the case could probably be made that they're still human. Otherwise, it the argument becomes gray, and is open for discussion amongst those educated on the topic of evolution. This does not include a judge, in my opinion, as it is doubtful that any judge has enough education (or genetic evidence) to make a call either way. Frankly, Marvel Comics is probably the only entity who can shed any light on the argument, since they are the final arbiter as to the genetic makeup of the characters they've created. If they say that the X-Men have little genetic resemblance to humans, then who is to argue?
I am going to start working out every day and I'll go find me a lion's mane to wear around(ebay for sure!). Once I'm really big and muscular I'll stop living by the laws of the land....I'll be able to do whatever I want because, hey, I'm not human - your laws don't apply to me. I'll make sure my lawyer cites this ruling as precedent.
Toy Biz, in its filings, pulled no punches. The figures "stand as potent witnesses for their status as nonhuman creatures," the company argued. How could they be humans, Toy Biz said, if they possessed "tentacles, claws, wings or robotic limbs?"
Or a mechanical heart, ceramic and titanium hips and knees, or an implanted insulin pump?
OK, so I don't know anyone with tentacles or claws, but some prosthetic limbs make use of quite a bit of robotic technology, even if the level of technology is still at the point where it struggles to grasp a doorknob. Does the presence of non-human parts make you non-human?
Apparently the judge never kept up with continuity...
Gyrich: Mastermold, you were designed to protect humans from mutants!
Mastermold: Illogical. Mutants are humans; therefore humans must be protected from themselves.
I am BelDion's
OK, this pegs my "WTF?!" meter for three reasons.
1) That fanboys care what some judge thinks. I mean, I understand that many fanboys don't have anything that could even be remotely termed "perspective", but if this is the biggest problem in your life? You're doing fine.
2) A judge actually spent time thinking about this. I don't even know what to do with that piece of information.
3) Some DIPSHIT passed a restrictive trade agreement that can be circumvented by a stupid argument like this. For one thing, tariffs are foolish, and for another thing, dumb tariffs like this are extra foolish.
Jane, stop this crazy thing.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Instead of calling bush's political actions unconstitutional, instead of finding a cure to some desease or fighting hunger, Instead of doing something worthy with our lives we deside to debate weather dolls/action figures are human or not.
thats america.
course they are not human, they are superhuman.
you see they actually got wolverine to act in the x-men movie (they arent really actors playing x-men!). wow what a guy.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
Of course they're not human, they're one inch tall plastic figurines!
Sheesh.
...what my tax dollars fund? I think it's time to move to the Netherlands.
The presiding judge subjected the figures to "comprehensive examinations" which included "the need to remove the clothes of the figure."
Maybe the judge needed some quality time with the xmen.
Jokes aside, if I have an uncanny power of not caring, can I be exempt from possible taxes, like international airport tax?
I have ever read on this site...
And they didn't publish my story about the evils of software patents??? Sheesh...
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
I find it very strange when people say there are practically no genetic differences between the races, or say there's no genetic basis for race. For at the same time people say the genetic difference between humans and chimps is very slight.
Given that, I can only conclude that the genetic differences between the races are significant given a normal human society perspective. Not substantial, but significant.
From an extraterrestial lifeform's perspective the genetic differences could be insignificant. But lets not pull wool over our own eyes.
We're all the same species. But it's a lie to say there are no racial differences, or that they don't matter. Race should never be the sole basis of any of our judgements, but one should not be deceived by people trying to be politically correct.
So far no nonblack man has broken the 100m in 10 seconds barrier without wind assistance. Sure you can say there's very little difference between 10 seconds and 9.8.
You can also say there's very little difference between first and last place.
Which other country is there a market for computer programs to help you fill out Income Tax forms?
The judge has decided the characters that the X-Men dolls/toys represent are not human characters because of their super human powers.
She's not talking about the dolls/toys themselves but the characters they represent.
In effect saying that if someone had a child with super human powers like the X-Men then that child would not be human.
Don't laugh, can you rule out the possibility of genetic engineering to create Wolverine soldiers in our lifetime? I can't.
So according to this ruling children breed for military purposes need not be considered human, and hence need not be protected by fundamental human rights.
Here's what i dont get. All these marvel comics fans are pissed off about marvel getting some money becuase some judge deemed their toys as "toys" instead of "dolls." Sure, the idea was that if they are human, then they are dolls, and them not being dolls means they are "not human," but who the hell really cares what they are "legally" called? Think about it. Does this not fit the X-Men story? They struggle to be excepted as humans, but rarely/never are. Now, even in the REAL world that same "struggle" is happening. Lastly, if marvel gets money out of this, and it means it'll cost them less to import their toys, wouldnt that price most likely come down on the retail end as well? If not, the company has more money to make more badass toys, so why complain? Seriously, some people need to learn to lighten up.
Frozen Insanity
http://frozen-solid.net
What, Hans Moleman isn't human?
Does anyone know the name for the logical fallacy of incorrectly attributing a logical fallacy to an argument as a counter argument?
Many university and highschool philosophy classes have online material covering all manner of logical fallacy. Logical fallacies are common enough in both advertising and astroturfing that everyone working in IT has seen them.Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Or.. How about Arnold Schwarzenegger. Is he inhuman too now?
I am not an animal.... I am a mannnn!
-- Elephant Man
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
"The judge found that Kraven exhibited "highly exaggerated muscle tone in arms and legs.""
.. if exaggerated musles make craven nonhuman than what about Barbie's extremely small waist size?
This begs the question
No, this begs the question... if exaggerated musles make Craven nonhuman then what species is Arnold Schwarzenegger?
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Now we have to see Spidey naked but Mary Jane clothed, what a sad day it is :-)
Sigh. I was going to study tonight, but now I know I'll just be renting Spaceballs... again.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
but Soylent Green is! ;)
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
If you can read this, thank an english teacher.
That was a fantastically interesting article! The concept of a human being seeing this theorized "fourth-primary" color is mind-boggling. I think I'm going to go cry my suddenly sub-human self to sleep now.
We can neither love nor pity nor forgive. If you make a slip in handling us you die!
And should be forced to live someplace on their own. But, its okay if they go fight a war for us. Where's George Bush when you need him?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
if I get adamantium claws implanted in my arms, I wouldn't have to pay taxes?
Or would I have to get the whole adamantium skeleton?
"Here's a guy who changes his clothes in a phone booth and flies through the air," says Mr. Cooper. "Does that mean he's now an animal?"
Wasn't superman supposedly an alien? That would pretty much rule him out as being human, one would think.
They aren't like us. They are different. To be feared.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'
my first reaction was, "how the hell can a Federal Judge rule on the humanity of the Marvel Universe?", but then my second reaction was, "why is a subscription to the WSJ so much?" I guess you get what you pay for, eh?
I remember, as a kid, reading the comics. Back then they were 12 cents, up from a dime. God knows what a comic costs now--I'm guessing a dollar and a half? Anyhow, in those days Marvel characters were quite different from the usual crap from DC. In a word, the Marvel creations acted like real people. Marvel was Greek tragedy or Shakespeare for kids. Sure, they were strong and had cool powers, but what good did it do them? In spite of their altruistic intentions they usually wound up with the short shrift, their good will being completely misunderstood. In short, they WERE human.
And now a goddamned Federal judge looking merely at outward appearance declares them to be on the same genetic level as Godzilla. Jesus! What's the world coming to? I mean (and as any Star Trek fan knows), the truly human derives from something inside us. Something intangible transcending external appearance.
It's a sad day in comicdom when the stinking humanity of Wolverine is sold out for a few lousy dollars. It's Judas all over again. No wonder the world is so screwed up today.
...when only multibillion-dollar corporations can afford to hire the army of lawyers and CPAs required to comply with the tax laws, the only legal businesses will be multibillion-dollar corporations.
I started a corporation with a total of about $300, including accountant time. ($65 an hour)
I don't agree with the abuses huge corps do, but I have to admit I see the need for corporation model of doing business.
For one, I am currently in a lawsuit over copyright infringement with the first client I got contracted by right after graduating from college. If I had been incorporated then, I would not be being personally sued right now...
Every freelancer should incorporate, with proper advice it can save you in many situtuations, and you get tax benefits too...
-v
NPR had a story about this on Morning Edition today (01/21). Here is a link directly to the real audio stream of the story.
"You call it a new way of thinking; I call it regression to ignorance!" -- Operation Ivy
As I'll keep saying until it happens, the better alternative is to enact Condorcet voting. It is not enough for third parties to act merely as "spoilers". If you think about it, a single vote can represent your true preference between, at most, two people. As soon as you introduce a third option, there's an amibuity: are you really for the person you vote for, are are you against his most popular opponent? We need a system that allows you to express preferences between candidates in this way, one that eliminates incentives for "strategic" voting.
That's Condorcet. Conceptually it is only slightly more difficult than single-vote plurality vote (current US system). Think of it this way: in a multi-way race, the "true winner" is the one that would win all (or at least a majority) of head-to-head races against all contenders. A single vote can determine only one head-to-head race - Condorcet provides a ranking method that allows all head-to-head winners to be determined simultaneously. Do not confuse this with an iterative approach to counting such as IRV. The iterative approach is flawed because it eliminates candidates before they've had a chance to be paired off with all other contenders. It is trivial to demonstrate this once you understand how the vote counting for both methods works.
Write your legislators. Write your editors. Explain to your neighbors and friends. Better yet, run for office. Imagine running on a platform that says, "I intend to make it easier for you to vote me - and other politicians - out of office if you don't like what we do".
Constitutionally Correct
But what about Wolverine, the muscular X-Man with the metal claws that jut out from his fists? Wolverine has known many forms in his more than 40 years as a Marvel character.
Huh?
Wolverine's first appearance was in Hulk 180, in 1974. He wasn't an X-man yet. That didn't happen till X-men #94/Giant Size X-Men #1....And that was in 1975.
So....
2003
-1975
------
>40
WTF?!?
Bah. Wolverine was cool way back in the day... Fighting the Brood, fighting the Sentinels, Fighting the Dire Wraiths, fighting various and sundry ninjas...
But then...Then the 90s happened. All comic books went to HELL! (The Demon, which was already in Hell, stayed quite funny and entertaining) They stopped being about a great story with cool pictures and started being pinup books with pretty pictures and no story. Then - in an attempt to gain some story back, they try and be "edgy" and hip....and basically ruin comics.
At least Hugh Jackman does a good "old school" Wolverine in the movie.
"You actually go out in public like this?"
Cyclops: "You'd rather have yellow spandex?"
The article does seem at first blush inflammatory. For example:
Her ruling thundered through the world of Marvel Comics fans. The famed X-Men, those fighters of prejudice sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them, are not human, she decreed Jan. 3. Nor are many of the villains who do battle with Spiderman and the Fantastic Four. They're all "nonhuman creatures," concluded Judge Barzilay.
What is important to remember here is that this is just the real world, and doesn't count.
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say.
--Will Durant
A young wooden man is taking his case to the supreme court claiming to be a real boy.
Film at 11:00
Judge Barzilay conceded that the closest call was the Mole Man, who once blinded the Fantastic Four with searing beams of light. The judge found him to be "stout and thick," with "exaggerated troll-like features" and very pale skin -- fitting for someone who lives underground. Given all that, Judge Barzilay concluded, the Mole Man was more mole than man.
Hey! I resemble that remark, you insensitive clod!
AMEN Brother! Preach on!
X-Wives.... They're a great and powerful force of evil hell-bent on ruining the lives of all connected to the X-Husband super-hero team. They will infiltrate your secret headquarters and take everything of any value, including, but not limited to, any secret identities your super-team may guard, all secret codes and cool hi-tech discoveries, all your funding, and even your dignity and self respect. And then you have to pay a "protection" fee every month to keep them from doing it again.
They are an insidious evil organization that shows no compassion, even to children, which they use as human shields and brainwash to their evil ways. They are ruled by The Harpy, the most evil and depraved X-Wife of them all, who sits on her perch in a deep underground cavern somewhere beneath Dallas, TX (because, as you might know, "All my Xs live in texas").
Next to the Dire Wraiths or maybe the minions of Darkseid, the X-Wives are the most evil organization in the universe.
First Appearance: Widely disputed. Best theories place their origin at the time of Moses from the Hebrew and chistian holy writings. People begged for the ability to divorce, God didn't like it, but he agreed, and thus the X-Wives were born. This may suggest a demonic origin.
Super Powers: X-Wife powers vary widely from specimen to specimen. Most have the ability to project a beam of pure hatred from their eyes that can chill the heart of even the strongest, most invulnerable warrior. Others are mindless berserkers. Still others are cold, calculating geniuses with a far-ranging network of minions.
Vulnerabilities: Due to their insanity and lack of a firm grip on reality, some X-wives can be outsmarted. However, this is dangerous, as the veteran, Elite X-Wives have a godlike cunning
High doses of Thorazine, Lithium and Zoloft have been known to stun an X-Wife long enough to escape.
I don't have any mutant powers (well, besides brainz %-) But I am a proud mutant.
I have a molar that never dropped out from my childhood; there was no tooth underneath to push it out. I consider myself (and rightly so) a technical mutant.
So judge, do I not have the right to breathe free, etc? I am a native born american. What If I wasn't ? Do I love my nation or fellow man any less? If you prick me do I not bleed? And what will you say to the first kid who can move iron filings with the kirlian field around his body?
"Sorry kid, you're an X man, so, i hafta put this tracking collar on you. Next stop, Genosha."
F*** that. And F*** that judge. Sure, maybe s/he was trying to alleviate a burdensome and seemingly pointless problem. Well judge, you're just asking to get overturned. Conservatives may want to pretend evolution is a liberal lie, but the central governing body (you know... the NSA) of the Fed understands that science has value, if not absolute correctness. And Because of evolution, every man woman and child is a mutant. See "cryptonomicon".. if there were no mutants, we'd all be metabolizing nitrogen or something in the primordial seas.
F*** you judge.
In this case Scott "Big Papa Pump" Steiner (and a number of other wrestlers) just can't be human.
Gamma Testing - Where testing is extended to the full user community (AKA Shipping the Program)
- The comics and movies are sold only because it makes them money.
- Fiction. FIC. TION.
kthx.TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
I don't think anyone will dispute your facts there, no.
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
When Alexander Graham Bell died in 1922, the telephone people interrupted
service for one minute in his honor. They've been honoring him intermittently
ever since, I believe.
-- The Grab Bag
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