Lindows Releases Inexpensive Subnotebook

los furtive writes "As of March 1st $799 will get you this Lindows 2.9lb subnotebook with a VIA C3 933MHz Processor, 256 megs ram and a 20 gig HD, a 12inch screen, USB 2.0, firewire and of course the Lindows OS. Pre-orders have already started."

Comments

GNU/linux hardware

[latroM]

Sounds neat. We need more GNU/Linux hardware makers to make users familiar with the free operating system. I don`t know how free lindows is but bringing choice to users is important.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, except the problem where is that instead of GNU/Linux, they get Lindows.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[latroM]

The operating system should really be called as GNU/Linux. You can read the reasons from gnu.org/philosophy.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Schnapple]

Actually in this case it's called LindowsOS.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

duh, he knows what webpage you get your brainwashing from.. he called you a Stallman whore after all.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Iguess you could buy it,and wipe the hard drive,then trade it in on something worth having.
On the other hand you could just skip the BS,and get something useful first.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Waffle Iron]

In order to satisfy all of the interested parties, it really ought to be called "{ G/L (but not W) }indowsOS"

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[chrisseaton]

Stallman has an ego problem. GNU is NOT an essential part of the Linux operating system. All GNU components could be replaced with BSD, or even propeitary versions, and it would still be Linux. How does he know that everyone using the Linux kernel is using the GNU tools?

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[latroM]

You can have different views to the subject. To someone the GNU system + all the other pieces that aren`t developed by GNU is the free operating system that Stallman decided to build long time ago.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

That's nice, but here, over 15 years later, he still doesn't have a workable kernel for his free operating system. Hurd is absolutely backwards and outdated compared to everything else available today. Hell, Minix is probably a better kernel.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[chrisseaton]

I think someone (with more spare time than I) should make a Linux distribution sans GNU. They could take everything needed from BSD, and we could have a _Linux_, and just _Linux_ distribution to shove under Stallman's nose.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[infiniti99]

All GNU components could be replaced with BSD, or even propeitary versions, and it would still be Linux.

I guess.. but then I think you would call it BSD/Linux. The fact is that Linux is just a very small part of your entire system. This is not to say it isn't important, but it is so low in the chain that it is most certainly not the defining factor.

When someone looks at my desktop, I say it is KDE. The OS underneath could be Solaris for all anyone knows. When someone looks at my Zaurus, I say it is Qtopia. The term 'Linux' is just too vague to mean anything.

When talking about a GNU system on top of Linux, saying "GNU/Linux" can be very appropriate. The parent poster was not necessarily talking about your computer.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[kevinank]

Stallman has an ego problem. GNU is NOT an essential part of the Linux operating system. All GNU components could be replaced with BSD, or even propeitary versions, and it would still be Linux. How does he know that everyone using the Linux kernel is using the GNU tools?

To dismiss the GNU from GNU/Linux as a clash of egos is to misunderstand the whole debate. Stallman doesn't have a problem with ego, he has a problem with ethics: specificially he doesn't think that Linux by itself promotes the right set of ethics. In particular, bashing Stallman for belaboring GNU is like bashing the pope for being religious. Stallman has been preaching the ethics of software and source code ever since he wrote the first Emacs source license.

And in my opinion the whole Linux versus GNU/Linux thing is a red herring anyway -- the real point is to make people aware of the ethical values of GNU. And arguing about the name in public is as good or better a way to do that than everyone agreeing to change the name wholesale.

So if you want to argue about the name, then cool. But don't assign the whole debate to Stallman's ego when the real debate is over how society should handle software.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Gordonjcp]

Yes, but until then, you call it "GNU/Linux".

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

You could build a functional Linux system with no GNU and it would be embraced as Linux? And not some embedded device but a full-fledged computing ennvironment? Show me. Because it's demonstrably true that people are using completely Free OS's. You're hypothetical is no less chimeral than the Hurd that the fsf's detractors never tire of ridiculing.

Bashing Stallman is stupid. Is this just an opportunity to grind an axe? Forget about it. The popularity of GNU software makes the case for "GNU/Linux" and millions of non-Stallmans can back that up.

Is LindowsOS a GNU/Linux? In fact it's based on Debian GNU/Linux, so if people want to call it a GNU/Linux more power to them. And if others want to call it "Linux," fine by me, but if you're going to flame somebody for saying "GNU/Linux" you better put on those asbestos skivies, because *you're* the one acting like a maniacal zealot.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Ponty]

Then you should call it Lindows or Debian or RedHat. Linux contributes a small amount of functionality, so does GNU. It takes a distribution to sew them all up together. My operating system is based on Mach, uses BSD and GNU tools. And I call it Mac OS X.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

mmmmm. Gindows. i'd drink to that.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Sunnan]

You get a choice of four answers:

1. With what compiler?
2. Why? Why do that just to mock RMS? He started a project to do a full free operating system almost 20 years ago which I'm very happy for. Give the guy a break. He may be a hero but he's (in his own words) no buddha, most of us wants credit once in a while.
3. While I can understand why RMS wants to bring attention to the GNU project and it's goals (free software), I can't help but feel suspicious of the "linux fanboys" that insist, time and time again, even totally out of the blue and uncalled for, to call it the system just Linux without those three letters.
4. I can't even believe this link should be necessary.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[purplebear]

Hrmmmm.....

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Better get cracking on the non-GNU C compiler to build it.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Then I would state that it is people like yourself and Stallman that have let the debate gone awry by bringing it up in such an irreponsible manner. At the height of Linux getting pushed into the corporate world, you decided popularity and name change was more important than people using sensible and good code over people like Be, Apple, and MS products.

And look what happened. Joe Schmoe doesn't give a rat's ass about GNU/Linux. Neither do most of the people in the community.

Now that folks are beating you over the head with sensible arguments, you want to revise what that debate is.

The debate was about the name with the underpinning ethical treatment support the name revision. But it became about the name because it was such a stupid, inconsistent, trivial, irrelevant, and who-gives-a-shit change. People that understand what made up the software int he OS they were installing were scratching their noggins thinking "eh, yeah, I knew that." Common folk got confused "GNU? Linux? GNU/Linux?"

Now you twist this around and return to saying the argument is that about ethical terms, even so much as to say that "society" understanding software and how to handle it is at stake--sorry, you have to mention society since, by and large, the Linux community does not give a rat's ass about the name change.

Saying GNU/Linux about at sensible as saying "humans have a heart." Who cares. Of course it is/they do, for the most part. Linux describes something that intelligent people recognize what it is; the inclusion of GNU tools.

There is a point where you have to say "this is stupid." Not to go Kafka on you, but WHO CARES??? You might as well be having a pissing fight with Stallman about why he only uses his father's last name as his last name, and not include his mother's.

I mean, oh-my-god, maybe Stallman doesn't have a mother?! Maybe Stallman's mother is not getting the attention she deserves! Maybe the underlying ethics of society is to put down the woman for the patriarchal society, that only seconded by the son!

Yeah. Great argument. Any fool knows what's going on. Only idiots want to point out the obvious, or make up ridiculous arguments that those that understand the fundamentals already understand the extent of the contribution, while those that don't, well, don't care to and won't anyways.

That is the essence of your grand ethics. At least thsoe that disagree grant you that it is about ego, because as I see it, you have very little else to go on.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[HuguesT]

Right, and you would be compiling the kernel with Microsoft Visual C++?

There is no replacement for gcc, even the Intel compiler is not up to the task, and if it were on x86, that wouldn't work on Alpha, Sparc, s390, etc.

GNU is integral to Linux. Without GNU, no Linux, at all. Moreover it's not about ego, it's about freedom, read the FAQ.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Luke-Jr]

Then it wouldn't be GNU/Linux. Usually if someone says GNU/Linux, they mean Linux with the GNU components. Most of the time, it's just an assumption, yes, but there are cases when they could mean to refer to GNU/Linux but not, for example, "BSD/Linux".

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[kevinank]

Now that folks are beating you over the head with sensible arguments, you want to revise what that debate is.

No actually, I was not trying to revise what the debate is, but to bring up what it was always about. I say this purely as an impartial observer who watched the original argument over first Lignux, then GNU/Linux as it happened. My own views fall pretty evenly on both sides of the debate; I think that the name GNU/Linux is stupid (having gone so far as to delete the 'GNU/' from all of the pages I sometimes maintain on Wikipedia except for one reference to the controversy), but I think that Stallman is basically standing on strong ethical ground as regards software.

Paraphrased, Stallman says that if you can share something of great benefit to your neighbor at no significant cost to yourself, then you are morally obliged to do so, and that laws and systems that prevent you from giving that aid are morally repugnant.

There is a point where you have to say "this is stupid." Not to go Kafka on you, but WHO CARES??? You might as well be having a pissing fight with Stallman about why he only uses his father's last name as his last name, and not include his mother's.

I believe it is precisely to find out 'who cares' that was the core reason that Stallman pushed the GNU/Linux and Free Software controversy.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone is using gcc, there is no bsd replacement to the gnu c compiler. (guess who made the original code to gcc, indeed it was rms).

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Eminor]

Then wouldn't it be called BSD/Linux?

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

...and if it was compiled with Intel's compiler, you'd be the first to call it Intel/Linux? Get a grip man! :)

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[viperblades]

or maybe RMS should branch.

Re:GNU/linux hardware

[HuguesT]

Hello AC,

FYI, Linux also works on non-Intel hardware. Try the Intel compiler on Alphas for a laugh.

Kinda expensive

[GigsVT]

Considering the C3 933Mhz is slower than a PIII 400.

Re:Kinda expensive

[cK-Gunslinger]

Yeah, but it still beats an iBook by 50% (pricewise, anyways). The only other true competitior is a refurbished/used notebook.

I like how they compare it to a PDA: "Does a PDA have a full-sized keyboard? NO!" LOL...

Re:Kinda expensive

[binaryDigit]

Yeah, but it still beats an iBook by 50% (pricewise, anyways)

Nope, the chart is wrong, they were comparing to the PowerBook, NOT the iBook. The iBook only costs $999 in a comparable configuration (the lowest end).

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand where 50% comes from. A 700 MHz iBook is running at $999 at the Apple store, the computer they pull a comparison to is the new G4 Powerbook in the iBook form factor.

So, a $200 difference, plus another 128 meg SODIMM. Not quite as bad all of a sudden.

Also, I just realized that this machine they are selling is a true sub-notebook and doesn't include an optical media drive. That won't go over well, I've never seen a person be satisfied with PCMCIA CD-ROM solutions..

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even a PII 400.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Speed Racer]

Don't forget that the iBook weighs 4.9 pounds. 2 pounds at that size is quite a difference. Still, I'd probably prefer the iBook with the built-in DVD/CD-RW.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Must be really slow, since Intel never produced a PIII 400. The earliest PIIIs were 450s.

Re:Kinda expensive

[dasmegabyte]

Besides which, you can't compare a VIA C2 to a G4. Hell, even comparing it to a G3 is sort of like comparing a scooter to a Harley. Of COURSE it's half the price...it's less than half the machine!

And it begs the question: why are we supposed to trust a company that can't even get it's own marketing straight? They're just a company with a name that's a bad pun on the most effectively marketed operating system ever...I'd put more stock in AmigaOS. At least Amiga is trying it's own thing.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Xunker]

Slower at what?

Floating point? Yes, much slower (owing to half-speed FPU and Cyrix's regretable design).

But what else? I have a machine next to me that has a Via C3-866; In WinStones and Sysmarks it easily paces my Celery 850; Though in Q3A, the Via is laughable in comparison.

No, the Via C3 is not a gamers machine, but in basic use it's adequate for Joe user (and it uses less than a quarter of the power of your PII-400!)

Re:Kinda expensive

[JPriest]

Good point, I was thinking the same thing. But I believe the C3 also runs with very little power and runs very cool. Take the heat sync of any Athlon processor and you will see smoke in under 5 seconds (I've done it). You can air cool a C3. Low end ultralight notebooks are the market that via needs to be in.

Re:Kinda expensive

[unicron]

Maybe he's running moslow.

Re:Kinda expensive

[zsmooth]

That won't go over well, I've never seen a person be satisfied with PCMCIA CD-ROM solutions..

Not to defend this Lindows laptop because personally I think it looks crappy, but I have a ThinkPad X21 subnotebook and I haven't missed an optical drive one bit. If I ever need to install anything, it goes over the network.

That said I'd buy the iBook over this thing in a second...

Re:Kinda expensive

[ShadowDrake]

I wouldn't mind a C3 notebook. I use a PII/266 now, and it has adequate performance for the Web browsing and wordprocessing I throw at it. A C3, in theory, should deliver better performance, and be cool and battery-efficient (I want 4 hours of battery life! Is this so hard?!) and affordable.

Aside from the dimensions, a possible price competitor is the Elitegroup Desknote. I've seen them at about USD 700, but you lose a LOT of mobility.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Greedo]

And the iBook (even the cheapest) has an internal CD drive (or DVD/CD-R), which you'd have to buy seperately if you wanted one of these Lindows notebooks.

Not to knock them ... it looks like a reasonably good price for a half-decent system. You aren't gonna play Doom III on it, but if I needed a tiny, light, mid-range powered, Linux notebook, I'd be interested.

Re:Kinda expensive

[dhartman]

It does have USB 2.0 and firewire so why in the h-e double hockey sticks, would you use a pcmcia adaptor for the cdrom? Simple external usb cdrom will work just fine. Battery life on one of these should be alot better than a comparable P2/P3 processor. The C3 processor is very low power consumption and does have throttling capabilities (if you really want to stretch the battery life). I'd like to get one and set it up to dual boot a linux distro and windoze something or other (maybe).

Re:Kinda expensive

[ahenry_82]

I think that this is too much to pay. This is a rip-off. Consider what your getting a laptop with only a 12 inch display and a VIA processor. I think that most people would be better off buying a low cost Dell or IBM laptop. I have never used Lindows, however it looks like a good version of Linux for the beginner. I do not believe that the first time linux user will want a Linux only PC. I think that a beginner would be much happier with a dual boot system. Unfortunately, M$ Window$ is still the dominate OS for the desktop. As much as I hate to admit it I am still forced to use Window$, because majority of computers run Window$; I have been using Linux and BSD for over seven years now. I think that in a couple of years Linux WILL be ready for the average novice user.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Except...

You can't run Linux apps on an iBook. People tend to gloss over the fact that you are very limited regarding apps when it comes to a Mac, while the Linux camp is leading the world in application development.

Lack of apps and being locked into the Mac platform keeps many people away from a Mac.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why you run linux on it. You *can* run linux on an iBook, you dumb shit.

Re:Kinda expensive

[steveha]

I would be very surprised if the optical drive needs a PCMCIA card. This laptop has 1394 (Fire Wire) so the external drive should just plug in to that.

steveha

Re:Kinda expensive

[jx100]

yeah, Linux'll never run on an iBook...

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

they just killed linux on the PowerBooks. give them till after the next iBook upgrade retard.

apple is the next microsoft.

Re:Kinda expensive

[druske]

FYI, I sent Lindows a note on the iBook mistake on their feedback page... the one that tells you that you WON'T receive a response, and even has an autoresponder to follow up with a response, which, er, tells you again that you won't receive a response.

So, naturally, a couple hours later I received a response. :)

The encouraging bit is not just that a human read the message and took a moment to send a response, but also that they thanked me for the heads-up and said they'd pass the information on to their marketing department.

Now marketing folks are sometimes just a pitchfork away from the embodiment of pure evil, but it is also possible that this was an honest mistake. Let's give them a little time to straighten it out and see what happens.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

or snoodles, maybe he's running snoodles.

Re:Kinda expensive

[puck01]

Considering this deal to be had at dell right now. I'd have to agree. # Celeron 1.6GHz, 256MB RAM, 20GB HD for $595.

puck

Re:Kinda expensive

[dasmegabyte]

Wow. I wish I would have thought of that before I diss'd them on slashdot...but that would require a modicum of faith in the cultish and often divisive open source community.

Oh, and i modded myself down on this post because i'm a troll.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Syre]

Actually, it would appear to be faster for many applications.

here are some benchmarks.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

it should be quite cooler than a P-III 400 too.

but at walmart you can get a celeron 1.2 laptop for $100 more and for $170 you can get a 1.6 celeron from dell.

with those references, how is it in price/performance?

Re:Kinda expensive

[Ryan Amos]

Uh, pardon? This is either a troll or a 12 year old idiot. 99.9% of linux stuff will work on a mac actually, just download gcc and it'll compile natively. There's even a port of apt to OS X to handle all that crap for you. Anyway, wasted enough of my time on this post...

Re:Kinda expensive

[dildatron]

are you sure?

Inte did produce a Pentium III 400MHz. It was one of their "Mobile" processors.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Xunker]

Remember: Walmart, Dell, IBM, Gateway, et al, make up for low prices in volume. These guys are going to be a smaller outfit so prices can't be slashed as much;

But back to your original point, I think the people who by this won't buy it for performance but for that it's a "Linux Supported" machine.. maybe the small size will be a factor too, but I think the fact that it's from a Linux Company will be the major draw.

Re:Kinda expensive

[sootman]

Well, considering that there's _no_such_thing_ as a PIII/400... the last PII and first PIII were both 450s.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

Thing is, most people don't need speed in a laptop. To some, price and mobility is more important.

I'd get one of these. I would also make a leap and guess that once these hit the street, $799 being the current site from the mfg., that they'll be a $150 cheaper once they start to pump these out and the LCD market comes crashing down (which was anticipated to occur around March, April, not due to mfg costs but mfgs fighting for new buyers and market share).

Re:Kinda expensive

[Jagen]

Really? So the 2 Pentium II Xeon 400s I have here dont count?

Re:Kinda expensive

[Svencer]

There is an excellent article on the 1GHz C3 at Tom's Hardware. Apparently it dissipates a maximum 12W of heat. That is pretty phenomenal. Anyone know how that compares to the G3?

http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020605/index .h tml

Re:Kinda expensive

[MoneyT]

Only a 12 inch display?

For a laptop, espesialy a sub notebook, and for people who don't plan on watching movies on their computer, a 12 inch can be just fine. Infact, 12 inches for most things is more than enough for a laptop. Check out an apple powerbook to see just how far 12 inches can go.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

But that Dell is a full size notebook, weighing over 7 pounds, more than twice the weight of the Lindows unit.

Re:Kinda expensive

[13Echo]

I'm wondering where you can get these things without *any* OS. I'm willing to bet that there is the Lindows tax in there somewhere. And that's OK, but I don't want Lindows. I'd wipe it and install Slackware.

$700 is a bit much, but $500 would be a great deal. Actually, AccessMicro had some C3s a few months back at $500 or so. I was thinking of buying one back then. They were a bit slower, but they had just the right price, and had a CD or DVD ROM drive.

I like the C3s because of how cool they run. They aren't the fastest CPUs by any means, but who really needs high speed for a portable PC? It's certainly fast enough to compile the average program in a reasonable amount of time. I've even been thinking of building a cheap-o C3 desktop system for around $200 to run as a server. Why? I don't need anything that is fast for a server connected to my cable modem.

I used Cyrix CPUs years ago, and loved them. They were reliable, stable, and fast (except for 3d gaming). These VIA CPUs are essentially what has spun off of the Cyrix chips. Despite people's opinions about their slower speeds, they do have their place in the market. They seem to fill the space in between PDA and notebook/desktop very well, offering benefits of the chips that you see in both.

Re:Kinda expensive

[Anonymous Coward]

No. The "iBook" listed in the chart on Lindows is actually the G4 PowerBook 12" edition. It comes with 867MHz PowerPC G4, 256MB PC2100 DDR RAM, NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go with 32MB of DDR RAM (monitor spanning with up to 1600 by 1200 pixels on the external display, both in millions of colors), 40GB Ultra ATA/100, built-in slot-loading combo optical drive (DVD-ROM and CD-RW in one), 10/100BASE-T, 56K V.92 modem, built-in Bluetooth 1.1, and included S-video, RCA, and VGA (standard 15-pin) adapters. The 12" PowerBook is also AirPort Extreme ready (both 802.11b & 802.11g in one card).

Re:Kinda expensive

[Tyreth]

Ack! These comparisons are rubbish, as you say. A 933mhz VIA C3 vs a 867mhz PPC G4? It's just apples and oranges.

Same with comparing the latop to a PDA. Right tool for the job. Why buy a family car for a single man? Why get a car with a large family instead of a van? The PDA is smaller than the laptop, it fits in your pocket. It is quicker to boot up and start using, etc.

Lindows is not getting a good reputation in my eyes...

Re:Kinda expensive

[sonamchauhan]

> where you can get these things without *any* OS.
> I'm willing to bet that there is the Lindows tax in there somewhere.

Good point :) and good luck with your search! ECS computers from Taiwan have an offering called "Desknote" - it sbasically a laptop without a battery. Desknotes may have C3 CPUs but they also sell P3/P4 "desknotes".

(Here's a Czech site selling one) The lindows notebook has an internal battery though, right?

Re:Kinda expensive

[digitalboy]

The Dell is missing Firewire & USB 2.0

Re:Kinda expensive

[Llywelyn]

My friend who is running Debian in dual boot will be so upset to hear this.

When exactly did they kill it and why was everyone not informed?

Re:Kinda expensive

[FuegoFuerte]

The C3 also uses much less power and runs much cooler than any PIII/P4 For comparison purposes:

C3 1Ghz typical power consumption: 11.25 watts, max 15 watts.

Intel Celeron 1Ghz max power consumption: 27.5 watts (couldn't find typ. consumption).

For a lightweight sub-notebook, the C3 is a perfect choice. Low power consumption and low cost, means cheaper notebook with longer battery life.

Lindows is a scam!

[Anonymous Coward]

See here for details. Don't get ripped off.

Re:Lindows is a scam!

[rcamera]

"lindows is a gigantic pile of shit... not because the product is exactly horrible, but because of the smarmy brainless dipshit slimeball assbags who are promoting it"

always nice to see an unopinionated technical review of this caliber.

Re:Lindows is a scam!

[Anonymous Coward]

That was a truly idiotic piece of garbage diary if I ever saw one. The guy just spouts off profanities and does not say anything intelligent. Do not bother reading it.

Re:Lindows is a scam!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow... you really are stupid aren;'t you.

Lindows DOES read office formats... using (GASP) open office...

only a complete twit that has a lower IQ than a salad bar woud think like you...... and that would be the entire marketing department of Microsoft.

So how do you like your job there? or are you in sales.

Re:Lindows is a scam!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's no worse than the usual slashdot drivel....

I'd still rather have an iBook

[Shinzaburo]

Given that you can find iBooks for just a bit more (around $999), I think I'd rather have the Aqua interface.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[$$$$$exyGal]

If I had to choose between the two, I'd have to go with the iBook as well. However, I don't really need to choose between the two... I want to have both ;-).

For the most part, though, I'd rather just use a super-fast desktop as my linux box, and then use my iBook as my laptop. That's a killer combination for me, personally.

--sex

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[mrklin]

Not to mention the iBook has a built-in optical drive!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[binaryDigit]

For one it wouldn't be slower, the VIA C3 is best about 2/3 the performance of a celeron at the same clock rate. So given that Macs tend to perform better than comparable clock speeds, the Mac will typically outperform it. You also get a more stable OS, stable in the sense that you don't have to worry about compatability issues. You get a built-in cd, which for some people is a significant plus (though some don't need it as well). Also notice that there is no mention of battery life. Also, where do you take your Lindows machine if you're having problems? Apple has places everywhere to do repairs, etc. You get MacOSX with several built in apps (iPhoto, iMovie, etc) that are arguably better (usuabillity, integration, not necessarily more powerful) than anything you are going to get for free for Lindows as well.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

You also get 2+ pounds heavier!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Peace of mind, it's a well constructed notebook with a rubber-suspended harddrive, rugged design (designed with kids throwing them into backpacks and taking them on school busses).

I also can have 802.11.. And a combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive.

On top of it all, I get OSX, which is Unix for the Masses. Something Linux wants to be, but falls short of in a few categories. For portable computing, I have different priorities than the desktop. For a fast desktop, I want power and control. For a laptop, I want simplicity, ease-of-use, even if it's a touch slower.

Oh, and I forgot. iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Kiwi]

Considering that the ibook you mentioned weights almost as much as the Thinkpad I am typing this on (cite), this is not a fair comparison. The rule of thumb is this: if you want ultimate portability on a system which can run Linux, you have to pay through the nose for it. Until now, that is.

- Sam

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[SubtleNuance]

if you want the Aqua interface, you might as well buy MS WindowsXP. Both closed. OSX (in its usefull form) is *NOT* Free or Open Source Software.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Aaargh.

I use an iBook, and I love it. It's a great machine and I'm glad I spent the money (a little more that $999, since I bought it last year, and I maxed out the RAM, which was a worthwhile expenditure IMO.) If anyone asks me "what kind of laptop should I buy?" an iBook is usually at the top of my recommendation list.

But.

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead. Linux story: a bunch of comments about how you should use OS X. OS X story: ditto, but from the Linux side. MySQL/PostgreSQL: duuude, MySQL/PostgreSQL sucks, use PostgreSQL/MySQL instead. Any story about programming language X: Language X 5ux0rz, Language Y r0x0rz. Et bloody cetera.

Different people want different tools for different tasks. Deal with it.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

bullshit, GNU/Linux sucks the less than OSX. nahnahanahahanah. fu troll.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy fucking shit. You're right. Aqua == XP (Luna) because Closed == Closed.

Your logical reaching is matched only by your inane moral posturing. Grow the fuck up. Some of us actually want to use our computers for tasks besides self-important pseudopolitical statement making.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead. Linux story: a bunch of comments about how you should use OS X. OS X story: ditto, but from the Linux side. MySQL/PostgreSQL: duuude, MySQL/PostgreSQL sucks, use PostgreSQL/MySQL instead. Any story about programming language X: Language X 5ux0rz, Language Y r0x0rz. Et bloody cetera.

Dude. Arguments like those are what slashdot is for. It's what makes slashdot slashdot. If you're looking for meaningful discussion, try a different site...

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[g4dget]

For one it wouldn't be slower, the VIA C3 is best about 2/3 the performance of a celeron at the same clock rate. So given that Macs tend to perform better than comparable clock speeds, the Mac will typically outperform it.

I have an 800MHz C3 and a 600 MHz iMac (not too different from a 933MHz C3 vs. a 700MHz iBook): the C3 is indeed slower than the iMac in terms of raw CPU performance, but the GUI and applications actually run faster on the C3. Keep in mind that systems X11 were originally developed for machines like 8MHz 68k systems with a few megabytes of RAM. OSX, on the other hand, is really pushing the envelope in terms of system requirements.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Peace of mind, it's a well constructed notebook with a rubber-suspended harddrive, rugged design (designed with kids throwing them into backpacks and taking them on school busses).

You haven't actually used an iBook have you? If anything I'd have to say they felt one of the flimsiest notebooks. I don't find notebooks particularly tough to start with, but I certainly expected more from one - in the end I bought a dell for the peace of mind.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Dude. Arguments like those are what slashdot is for. It's what makes slashdot slashdot. If you're looking for meaningful discussion, try a different [notslashdot.org] site...

[shrug] Maybe you see it that way; I don't. I wouldn't spend time on Slashdot if there weren't, IMO, a hell of a lot of meaningful discussion here. But the kneejerk "don't use this, use that" trolls are utterly meaningless discussion. They actually make it harder to have a discussion on the technical merits of OS X vs. Linux, or MySQL vs. PostgreSQL, or Perl vs. PHP, or whatever -- and those are discussions worth having -- because rational posters tend to get lumped in with the kneejerkers.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Captain Large Face]

I'm getting really sick of the comments that seem to attach to any story about any product X talking about how you should use Y or Z instead.

Well put. So, vi or Emacs? ;)

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Dirk Pitt]

rubber-suspended harddrive
101st use for a Trojan...

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya, and you could use to lift some more weight!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[CheeseCow]

If I remember correctly, it can't do math very well, meaning that movie playback & gaming will be slow. As in very slow.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[kevinadi]

Emacs 5ux0rz, vi r0x0rz!!!!!! vi 0wnz j00!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, troll. My iBook is sitting on the floor behind me. I regularly take it to school in my backpack. I do not baby it, I do not have some special carrying case shoulder bag for it. It goes into my bag with my textbooks and binders.

Oh, and just for the sake of proving your comment had no value whatsoever, I am reposting it with iBook and Dell reversed:

You haven't actually used a Dell have you? If anything I'd have to say they felt one of the flimsiest notebooks. I don't find notebooks particularly tough to start with, but I certainly expected more from one - in the end I bought an iBook for the peace of mind.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[cowmix]

I am running Linux on a 733 C3 and it is very slow. Where it really shows its slothness is when you do something like SSH. The key exchange seems to take eons.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[dublin]

Given that you can find iBooks for just a bit more (around $999), I think I'd rather have the Aqua interface.

Need I point out that your "a bit more" is a full 25% more in this case? If that doesn't bother you, please figure an extra 25% on your house payment, gasoline bill, car payments, etc. and send me a check for the extra 25% every month.

Don't you dare gripe about gas prices rising from $1.50 a gallon to $1.88 a gallon, either. After all, it's only "a bit more".

Seriously, had I not just scored a brand-new in the factory box ThinkPad 570E with all the nice accessories for $650, I'd be all over this deal. Don't forget that most of the price comparisons people are making here are with heavy, bulky, power-hungry laptops. Thin and lights are the only laptops many of us will consider, however. I for one will never again own a computer that requires its own luggage - if I can't throw it in my breifcase as an aftherthought, I don't want it.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Sunnan]

That's not necessarily an advantage. It adds cost, it's hard to upgrade, it breaks easily (mine broke within a few months) and it adds weight and size.

(No mention of battery issues since you don't *have* to use it.)

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Sunnan]

This lindows book seems to have 802.11 as well, though. And it's a lighter, one-spindle machine as opposed to the iBook.

(I'm not saying it doesn't suck - it still might.)

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[diamondc]

Sometimes when you have slow key exchanges, your IP isn't being properly reserves resolved by the computer running the SSH server. I'd chalk this up to DNS timeout..

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

At one point I actually recommended Dell to my clients, but after two days of being on hold and playing phone tag just to get them to come out and replace a clients cooling fan...
I'm in the Mac camp and will never look back.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Just for fun, I compared my number of fans vs. some other Slashdot folks:

1117) CleverNickName (+27)
1095) CmdrTaco (+36)
707) Bruce Perens (+3)
690) $$$$$exyGal (+110)

Interesting. That explains a great deal. There are at least 690 people on slashdot that are......fans of $$exygal. Gives me an idea. Moron Honeypot-->Moron Filter.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why got modded to troll--oh, wait, if it's not Apple's astroturfers, it must be those rabid Mac addicts who can't tolerate somebody not sharing their fetish.

There's some misinfo being spread in this thread. The $999 ibook people talk about has these specs:

700MHz PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache @700MHz
128MB SDRAM memory
20GB Ultra ATA drive
ATI Radeon 7500
16MB dedicated video memory
CD-ROM
Built-in 56K v.92 modem
AirPort ready
Up to 5 hr. battery life

Those who recommends this machine for OSX ought to be lined up against a wall and shot. You're going to want at least an extra 256MB to run Jaguar/Aqua, and while you can boost your RAM for under a hundred--if you install it yourself--most consumers would prefer to be sold a fully functioning product. That makes the real cost minimally $1140 if you're froogle and mechanically inclined, or around $1700 to get a machine from Apple that actually works (that $1700 model would have a combo drive and 32MB video memory). Need to do some word processing, etc? Better throw in some more dough for software. Appleworks ain't going to cut it, and messing with fink is a bit much to ask of the target demographics here.

Conversely, if you went with the Lindows jobbie you wouldn't have a cd drive. You can find an external firewire or usb for under a hundred, but if you want a rw cd/dvd combo be prepared to spend more. There might be compatibility issues, so you'll have find and dig through Lindow's hardware compatibility lists. You might enjoy more RAM--although it's not absolutely essential. Throw in another $75 to double your RAM. Finally, if you're planning to take this puppy on the road, you already know the importance of having a 56K modem. That's another $50 and another trip to Lindow's compatability list. On the plus side, you get yourself a hardware modem--Apple's modem is soft, and besides wasting cycles it may be unsupported by Linux PPC distros.

How much will Lindows software cost? Here's a tip. AFAIK Lindows "Click-N-Run" is not free, but they give a free trial when you buy a computer. If you don't care about the proprietary stuff they have like Star Office and Crossover, you can just edit your apt sources list (try /etc/apt/sources.list) to point to you're favorite free software repositories (*cough* Debian Rulez *cough*), and you're set. And here's a tip for the newbs: look for synaptic in the Click-N-Run Warehouse. It's a graphical front end to apt that makes software installation easy.

Bottom line, the Lindows Mobile PC is cheaper and lighterweight than the ibook. Paying the bare minimum will get you a functional subnotebook with access to thousands of good free software programs, and it will be $300 less than what you would pay for an ibook with no additional software. For another $250 you can get a rig comparable to the $1749 dollar ibook, but with more better software. If price is a consideration, the choice is clear.

The ibook has its charms, but you Apple heads need to fess up and get over yourselves. This little notebook fills a niche. For people who want a truly portable machine without paying through the nose or suffering the indignity of being forced to pay the Microsoft tax, the ibook is no longer the only choice.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[mk500]

I have an 800Mhz C3 running RH8 as well as a 500Mhz G3 running OS X. My impression of the C3 is that it is dog slow. As someone else mentioned, it seems approximatly equivelent to a 400Mhz PIII in overall performance (that includes GUI). For launching apps, browsing, and general use, my 500Mhz G3 feels at least TWICE as fast as the 800Mhz C3. Luckily I purchased the C3 for use as a mini-server, so I won't be running the GUI for long. When comparing these processors: the C3 is one of the poorest performers on the market from a Mhz vs. real speed perspective. The PowerPC, on the other hand, is one of the highest performers per Mhz.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[gl4ss]

yeah.. really, when everything is working you wont notice a delay even on a friggin pentium 90mhz.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Emacs 5ux0rz, vi r0x0rz!!!!!! vi 0wnz j00!

See, that is exactly why you should use Emacs instead of vi. You obviously thought you were in a different mode and started typing vi commands. How embrassing!

^X^C

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Dynedain]

Well put. So, vi or Emacs? ;)

Pico!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Well put. So, vi or Emacs? ;)

Yes

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

vim!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Wordpad

Is there really any other choice?

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the 33MHz 68040 I'm using (there's a slight delay, but nothing untoward).

It really amazes me that people complain about Linux on multi-hundred megaHertz machines. I've been running X on Linux since the 66MHz 486 days, and it was fine. Chalk it up to KDE and GNOME I guess. I'll take Windowmaker any day.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[corsec67]

I have only used VI, because that is what my Playstation 2 had. Now I just need to learn MIPS assembly, and then work with the other 3 processors. hmm.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[axxackall]

So, you prefer to hear all compaaring arguments from sales? I'd rather find them on Slashdot. From my point, the begining of a thread "X vs Z" is insightful, arguing about "why" is interesting and all references and links about the comparison are informative. Of course, there are many trolls and off-topics, like this one. But, there moderators, there is a way to display only what you want. That's why many of use use ./

Well, let me try to fix the topic.

The Lindows subnotebook is excelent idea. It improves the competition. Of course someone loves Aqua (I don't). Of course, someone cannot live on short-life batteries (I can). Someone needs wide screens, another one wants to hide his notebook in a small brief case. And the market has already been trying to satisfy all such requests. But now, Linux is on the market and that is great. Both Apple and Microsoft beging experiencing a pressure from it. Ultimately, they will have to either improve their quality further or drop prices or both or go out of their business.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, this is the real reason Macs don't have virus problems - safe data transfer.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

gvim!

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[gl4ss]

yeah..
people tend to think that computer gets slower in a year, and too slow to use in 4. like some critter was eating away it's capabilities and it couldnt do what it was able to do earlier anymore(ok some of this is attributed to software bloat but stil.. 4mb was enough for a testprocessor + gui).

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

yep everybody always forgets pico. I love pico. I ported pico to palm os 2.0 5 years ago. Took me 6 months and then OS 3 came out and I wanted to kill myself since it refused to run and no, no handwriting recognition, but I got it to work with the palm keyboard.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[shfted!]

No, vim, you insensitive clod ;)

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[yomegaman]

Let's see, setting up Fink is too complicated for the target market, but editing /etc/apt/sources.list isn't?

Besides that, you left out the most important thing for which x86 notebooks have no equivalent: Mac OS X. I used Linux exclusively since pre-1.0 days up until I got my iBook, and you couldn't pay me to go back now. Whatever few-$100 premium you pay for a Mac is well worth it.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[baldnik]

ed.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[g4dget]

Isn't that what I was saying? The CPU is slower, but if you run a desktop like IceWM or XFCE, its GUI zips right along. You can run a useful, responsive GUI-based Linux system on that kind of hardware.

Note that the 933MHz C3 is disproportionately faster because it (apparently) has a better memory system.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm running Gentoo Linux on a P2 366, 190 meg of ram and a 4 meg video card, and it's quite fast. SSHing to the P133 acting as my gateway is local-fast as well. Sounds to me as if you have something borked.

Re:I'd still rather have an iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

cat >file
cat^d is the world's best text editor.
^d

Yet for $699...

[wo1verin3]

Yet for $699 you can get this Dell Inspiron with a Celeron 1.6, GeForce2Go 16mb video, and more.... add 128MB to bring it up to the same price and you can load on your own Linux Install. Why are we doing Lindows marketing for something that isn't really that great of a deal if you shop around?

Re:Yet for $699...

[dartboard]

The Dell Inspiron you quote is 6.8lbs -- roughly 2.5 times the size of the Lindows PC. I'd say that's a significant difference, wouldn't you?

Re:Yet for $699...

[jonnythan]

That Dell is almost 7 pounds. That's a big notebook.

This Lindows thing is less than 3 pounds. That's a massive (ha, ha) difference. The way I see it, it's not such a bad deal for such a tiny notebook that still has a nice sized screen, especially when you toss in built-in super handy CompactFlash.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF is wrong with you? That thing weighs like 6.8 pounds plus you gotta pay the Microsoft tax.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Bluetick]

And, despite it's large size, the Dell doesn't have USB 2.0 or Firewire, not to mention that the Lindows one has both.

Okay, the Dell is moderately faster. But it's not as flexible, nor is it a 'subnotebook' (I don't know why they call it subnotebook, makes you think they're targetting it for subhumans).

Re:Yet for $699...

[arvindn]

isn't really that great of a deal if you shop around?

You said it yourself. People's time is valuable.

Re:Yet for $699...

[BMonger]

Also $699 is the "base price"... if you try to configure a system for $699 it's almost next to impossible. I tried to configure that system and there is nothing on the first page that tells me that switching out an option will either lower or raise the price. Clicking continue gives me a price of $1,277... I have no idea where they get their $699 prices from... frankly I find Dell's pricing scheme very misleading.

Re:Yet for $699...

[chaboud]

Do a tiny bit of digging and you'll find a 15% off coupon as well.

Go check out fat wallet.

Re:Yet for $699...

[evilviper]

My Sotec notebook is 4LBS, has a built-in combo DVD/CD-RW, 256MB of RAM, 20GB HD, etc. All that was $750, and it has a 1.2GHz Celeron, not a piece of crap VIA-C3, which performs like it's less than half it's own clock-speed.

Re:Yet for $699...

[cdrudge]

Follow the grandparent's link, click the blue "Recommended Systems". Right under the phone of the laptop there is a link that says "Inspiron 2650C starting at $699". Click it. That takes you to a page that has the laptop for $849 - $150 rebate = $699. You can customize it from there.

This link takes you straight to that page. Here is the same laptop that is $806-$150 rebate (not shown on that page but on another that leads to that page). The extra $$$ off is due from their Employee Purchase Program that anyone can get thru.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you can get the same Dell configuration with 256MB Ram for $595 if you know where to look.

Re:Yet for $699...

[ShavenYak]

I have no idea where they get their $699 prices from... frankly I find Dell's pricing scheme very misleading.

I agree. To get the "base price", I think you have to pick the lowest-cost alternative under every single option. For desktops, that means no monitor, a piddling of memory, the crappiest keyboard/mouse available, and so forth; I'm not sure what kind of notebook config you wind up with doing that.

Re:Yet for $699...

[TheLoneCabbage]

Because finally it's a low cost Linux Laptop (as opposed to the behemoths that have previously passed for Linux Laptops).

If this is successful don't think DELL and HP won't notice.

The key here is that when people go to buy this and they ask "What kind of computer is it?" You just say "It's a laptop". No Mac/PC nonsense.

I've been in a situation to "educate" (ie brainwash) several newbies who are only now deciding to buy computers. And that is the FIRST question they ask. Now I can say "It's a laptop"

Beautiful.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is how to get the same computer from Dell for under $600.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

Key phrase here is "starts at." If you are looking at the lowest price, you betcha you will get the lowest options. Also, check your facts before posting. Base price for a desktop does include a monitor unless you are looking at the business side of things. Dell does offer a lite notebook, but it is HORRIBLE. (Yes, I've used their two competing models a great deal.) Stay far away...

Re:Yet for $699...

[santos_douglas]

You might argue the real value in advertising a Lindows notebook is to increase the overall visibility of a Windows alternative - which the general public is almost completely unaware of.

Re:Yet for $699...

[ShavenYak]

Also, check your facts before posting.

Last time I tried to configure a desktop, I had to delete the monitor to get to the price they showed on the home page. I'm terribly sorry I didn't try again today before posting my observation. I apologize for any discomfort this may have caused you.

Of course, I didn't expect some sort of Spanish Inquisition.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Cy Guy]

Could you be more specific where you found that system for $750? Walmart has it for $988 - though that includes the MS tax.

Re:Yet for $699...

[jamesbrown1000]

i can't seem to get to customize it. even if i choose the $899 version and click "continue" it tells me that the system has changed and i have to start over.

dude, you're getting a /. effect?

Re:Yet for $699...

[Deagol]

Who the hell would drop several hundred bucks on a laptop without doing any research or shopping around, valuable time or not?

Re:Yet for $699...

[RevAaron]

But it is a PC. And there's a good chance a substandard PC. The best kind, right?

Re:Yet for $699...

[RichMeatyTaste]

DO me a favor... visit gotapex.com. You'll see how to get that price. ANYONE can get the laptop for that price.

Re:Yet for $699...

[DrinkDr.Pepper]

One note is that $50 of the $150 rebate you only get if you also sign up for high speed internet.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Hard_Code]

The answer I think you are looking for is:

"No, the only kind"

Re:Yet for $699...

[bflong]

You have a sams club card I take it? :-)
I've been looking at that laptop for a while now. Did you by chance load linux on it?

Re:Yet for $699...

[wo1verin3]

Dell just happened to be the first page I looked at, if I was purchasing I'd look a lot more carefully, and may even look at the price of a non-big-brand-name notebook.

Re:Yet for $699...

[vespazzari]

I bought the same notebook at office depot for 950 with a $50 mail in rebate and a free 32MB usb flash disk thing... I think that office depot and sams are the only ones selling sotec notebooks though

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Who the hell would drop several hundred bucks
> on a laptop without doing any research or shopping
> around, valuable time or not?

People for whom the time they would spend researching such a decision is worth more to them than the potential savings from shopping around.

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, if you check techbargains, you can get a 15% off coupon to make that dell laptop $594 shipped.

Budget Inspiron 2650 notebook Celeron 1.6Ghz Free 256MB Upgrade/20GB CD 14.1" Screen, XP home $699 - 15% coupon = $594.15 shipped free. No rebates - from techbargains.

Re:Yet for $699...

[RevAaron]

Touché! I was afraid to be the one to say it with a bunch of raving PC luzers around!

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought this laptop last weekend from bestbuy.com for $700.00 after $250 in mail in rebates..

Re:Yet for $699...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sotec Celeron 1.2, 256mb ram, 4.4 pounds, CD-RW..

$800 from bestbuy.com

Re:Yet for $699...

[Daengbo]

That's ok, because nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!. Thank you, I'll be here till Thursday. Try the veal.

Re:Yet for $699...

[evilviper]

Did you by chance load linux on it?

Heh... Where to start?

I'm mainly a BSDer, so I wasn't looking at installing Linux on it. OpenBSD and NetBSD both froze-up on boot, but FreeBSD installed just fine. However, I discovered that FreeBSD 4.7 didn't support the USB ports for anything but a keyboard and mouse (eg. no HD, camera, etc.). FreeBSD also couldn't use the PCMCIA slot for anything (PCMCIA nor Cardbus).

After that, I tried Slackware 8.1, which, just like Free/Net BSDs, froze on the booting of the kernel... Not a fan of Linux myself, so I didn't put much effort into it.

After that, I put some effort into getting OpenBSD to work. it seems the magic device to disable is cbb... I guess that means OpenBSD's "O2 Micro Inc OZ6912 and OZ6972 CardBus" support isn't working with the Notebook.

So, the only problem I had with the notebook is that Cardbus support doesn't work with OpenBSD-3.2. As 99% of the devices I want to use are not cardbus, that doesn't pose much of a problem.

With Linux, I have no idea if cardbus support is available now, but if not, I'd bet it will be soon. There is a closed-source Linux driver for the Winmodem as well.

As for FreeBSD, I suppose v5.0 might have the necessary improvements to support the notebook fully, but I haven't tried it.

Huh???

[Bob Abooey]

Since when do they sell PC's/laptops???? I guess I'm out of the loop here because I thought they were strictly a linux distro aimed at traditional Windows users. Who makes the hardware here?

It is pretty cheap though, I would think it would be easy to buy one and wipe the drive and install RedHat or FreeBSD on it.

Re:Huh???

[Anonymous Coward]

'tis difficult to sell preinstalled systems without selling the system.
Pre-installation means more users will take to it.
Also it is a complete system, again, most people want a complete system, not a faff-about-system.

Plus, a laptop is more likely since sales are growing strgoner, and desktop users are more prone to buying laptops these days than new desktops.

so.

Re:Huh???

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think this puppy would run Windows 98SE??? That'd be my plan!

Re:Huh???

[Anonymous Coward]

Since the time they are selling free GNU/Linux codes with higher price than even Windows!

Nice ibook stats

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice comparison. Where can I buy one of those ibooks?

Re:Nice ibook stats

[Anonymous Coward]

The iBook is available at
http://www.apple.com, of course.
But, the iBook is practically obsolete
now that the 12" PowerBook is available
for $1800.
Reference:
http://www.apple.com/powerbook /index12.html

The Apple 12" PowerBook has a low-quality
LCD screen, however. I wonder if the
screen of the $799 Lindows Mobile PC
is any better. Hope so.

The most important part in the longer term
is open source, I would think. I heard that
Lindows runs all programs as root, and I
wonder if Lindows is not completely open source.
If this is the case, then I wonder if we can
run a different distribution of Linux,
like Gentoo, on the $800 Lindows notebook.
Anyway, it's nice to see evolution in action.

Re:Nice ibook stats

[Anonymous Coward]

Naw, you can still pick up an iBook for $999. Believe me, for $200 more, the iBook is a steal compared to a "Lindows" laptop.

Re:Nice ibook stats

[PhoenixK7]

Um, dude, did you miss the cluetrain today? Or did you simply not follow the link?

They're quoting the price of a 12" PowerBook and calling it an "ibook". The actual iBook costs far less, starting at $999, and you can probably get it for less refurbed.

While this machine may be tempting, imagine trying to buy replacement batteries for it down the road, or getting it repaired when it breaks. Lindows has a non-existent track record for customer service for hardware.

Graphics chipsets

[jmertic]

Any idea what graphics chipset these use? The specs left that out ( usually means it's a bad one ).

Re:Graphics chipsets

[bsharitt]

I'm guesing it's good enough for word processing and web browsing, which is okay since I'm guessing this isn't a gaming note book.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[BMonger]

From http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec.asp?Produ ct.id=787&Cate.id=2

Integrated Savage 4 AGP 4X graphic core (up to 16MB Video Memory)

Re:Graphics chipsets

[sheddd]

Any idea what graphics chipset these use? The specs left that out ( usually means it's a bad one ).

Savage 4 16MB

Re:Graphics chipsets

[skeedlelee]

Not sure what they're using off hand, but looking at motherboards that use the 933MHz C3, they usually have some sort of hardware acceleration such that you can watch DVD's on them. As far as 3D abilities, they're typically pretty crappy. Given that this is probably aimed at people who want to write a paper and surf the web, maybe listen to MP3's or a CD this is probably sufficient.

Actually, for a subnotebook, light weight computer this may be a good deal. I'm still using a pentium (one!) notebook as it is small enough and light enough to do what I need it to do. I'm mostly curious about battery life. I know the C3's also came in a low power/low heat flavor (passive cooling is fine), I've got to wonder if that was just too crappy to use or something. Light with a long battery and enough power to write a paper/work on a talk while listening to music would be enough to get me to shell out less than $1k, no problemo.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[qoncept]

Any idea what graphics chipset these use? The specs left that out ( usually means it's a bad one ).

Probably one with power that scales to match the processor. The C3 isn't exactly.. any good for any game at all. At least not a 3D accelerated game. This T1 is so disgustingly bogged down that I can't find the benchmarks now, but a 933mhz C3's OpenGL and Direct 3D performance are right on par with an Athlon 500mhz. If you're looking for a notebook to play games on, you're not only looking at the wrong one, you're looking in the entirely wrong end of the spectrum. Be ready to cough up 3 times that.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[Captain Large Face]

I'm in no way a graphics expert, and I mean in no way, but I noticed the following text on the store page:

Integrated Savage 4 AGP 4X graphic core (up to 16MB Video Memory)

Not quite Doom III territory, is it?

Re:Graphics chipsets

[kriston]

All Via C3s are low power/low heat. The 933 MHz model is exceptionally fast for its power and heat requirements. The chipset is the integrated Via ProSavage (the old S3 stuff) which has specific acceleration support for MPEG (DVD) decoding. I build systems based on this processor and they are excellent for everything except 3d gaming, and I've never seen anyone expect to do 3d gaming on a notebook PC for under $2500, anyway.

KRis

Re:Graphics chipsets

[Jason Earl]

Heck, when it comes to laptops the only app that I am really worried about being able to use is Emacs. I am actually glad when I see the manufacturer skimping on the video card.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, the savage 4 chipset isn't bad... we're not talking Radeon or Geforce ANYTHING, but It runs 95% of the Games I own... But then, I don't like 3D shooters much anymore... the Quake 3 engine games are about it...

Re:Graphics chipsets

[alienw]

Actually, you can get a good gaming notebook for about $1800. Try discountlaptops.com or powernotebooks.com. The funny thing is that Alienware sells the same Sager model for about twice the price.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty nasty chipset to be running a linux based machine with. How do I know? I'm reading this now on a laptop with that exact same chipset. Yeah, it's a really nasty chipset.

Re:Graphics chipsets

[Anonymous Coward]

Alienware sells everything for twice the price. Fuckers.

Aww

[B3ryllium]

I wanted something I could put in the glove compartment of my car and wire directly into the stereo ... something like a Toshiba Libretto. Ah well. Guess I can just mount it elsewhere in the vehicle.

mkdir Dashboard; mount -t HUD /dev/display/ /Dashboard

Re:Aww

[Anonymous Coward]

And why do you need this? Just install an in-dash MP3/CD player.

Re:Aww

[Anonymous Coward]

mount -t kickfs /dev/myfoot $home/yourass

Re:Aww

[B3ryllium]

mount -t kickfs /dev/myfoot $home/yourass
mount: /usr/home/beryllium/yourass: No such file or directory.

cmp yourface yourass; echo Difference: $?
Difference: 0

oh, this was too funny to pass up:
echo blah > yourface
cmp yourface yourass; echo Difference: $?
cmp: EOF on yourass
Difference: 1

(hahah ... "EOF on your ass.")

Re:Aww

[B3ryllium]

That's just not cool, man. Not cool. Besides, an early-gen Libretto can run BeOS. Best mp3 platform EVAR! And it boots faster that other OSes, and recovers from sudden power loss too ... a libretto with BeOS could take the abuse a car could hand out, AND it could hold tons of tunes too. No need for messy CDs.

I guess the only thing needed would be ... some form of wireless connection. Then I could just upload MP3s from my desktop to my car. :)

Re:Aww

[yomegaman]

Just buy a head unit that has an AUX input, I got an Aiwa something-or-other down at Best Buy for $100. Now you can just plug your portable MP3 player in (iPod in my case). Take it inside to load up your tunes, throw it in the glove box when you're not using it.

Kickass..

[the kfc avenger]

Sounds interesting, but who will build it? Lindows has enough problems without worrying about hardware..

Hmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems to me that the link is nothing more than an advertisement for the product, but I guess thats good enough for a story on Slashdot.

Other Distributions?

[tekniklr]

I'm curious how well the hardware in this would be supported in say, Slackware. I love the price of the laptop, but frankly hve no interest in running Lindows.

Re:Other Distributions?

[Sunnan]

I'd be surprised if there was hardware that only works with one distro. No promises, but I think it'll work.

(an obvious exception is stuff like totally different architectures, I don't expect to boot up official slackware on MIPS.)

Re:Other Distributions?

[13Echo]

It'll work. I've installed Slackware 8.1 on a similar configuration recently, and ran into no problems. The XV support for the graphics chip even allows MPlayer to play movies back with minimal CPU load.

Umm...

[1155]

where's the source? as in source code. Isn't lindows based on the linux kernel? Or do they give it to you once you purchase the product?

Re:Umm...

[deadsaijinx*]

the source code is on their site, you just have to dig around. And all it really is is the modified kernel if I remember correctly. The weak GPL license doesnt force them to distribute code for things that are entirely theirs but based on top of linux.

Re:Umm...

[1155]

well, look at the second question, and answer, on the previous story:

http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03 /0 2/20/1544245&mode=flat&tid=117&tid=123

from what he says, it looks as though, if they modify one program, or include anything gpl, although not lgpl, then they must open source it all..

Re:Umm...

[Anonymous Coward]

If they link in GPL code to one of their apps then they have to open source the app. If they included their own software linked against non-gpl code then they can keep it closed if they wish.

USB 2.0???

[Anonymous Coward]

Can a VIA C3 933MHz even handle the bandwidth that a USB 2.0 connection can pipe in to it?

SO am i wrong in thinking

[Unknown Poltroon]

that 800$ isnt really inexpensive? ANother 200 gets you an ibook new.

Re:SO am i wrong in thinking

[deadsaijinx*]

yes, far too expensive for what your getting. THe only real advantage is the really low weight, but most of use could care less. Plus, who wants a notebook loaded with lindows crap? o_0

Add

[Anonymous Coward]

I smell slashdot add...

Re:Add

[Anonymous Coward]

I smell slashdot add...

Not sure how to parse that.

Are you commenting on your hygiene, and asking others to comment?

I smell. Slashdot add...

Is this some sort of weird reverse notation string concatination?

I smell slashdot add = "Ismellslashdot"

or are you merely too stupid to know the difference between
ad - as in advertisement
and
add - as in to join or unite

Good Idea

[lpret]

This is a great idea except one flaw. Now Lindows, which isn't even a competitive OS maker, is now trying to fight the likes of Dell, Sony, Toshiba, IBM, and the rest. Good luck is what I have to say. It actually looks like a decent laptop for college students (read: cheap, and no MS tax) and I know the first thing I'd do is try and put a real linux distro. However, it has a compact flash, does linux know how to handle that?

Re:Good Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

However, it has a compact flash, does linux know how to handle that?

I think CF looks like a plain old IDE device, so (if I'm not mistaken) it should work with any operating system.

Re:Good Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK, yes. One of my friends certainly has his digital camera (which utilizes CF) up and running under Linux.

No idea how hard it was to get it running (haven't gotten around to making mine work with Linux yet. Yay laziness! ;)), but whatever horrors he may have experienced, he definately got both the camera itself and the CF cards recognized.

Even if it was a bitch to do, Lindows could simply ship with the modifications/tweaking necessary already done.

Re:Good Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently the "microsoft tax" isn't as taxing as everybody here would like you to think. Here is a Dell Inspiron 2650 configuration with better hardware (it has a 1.6GHz Celeron and includes a DVD drive), and even with the "microsoft tax", it's only $20 more (after rebate).

Re:Good Idea

[frodo from middle ea]

If the camera has a USB connector, and is supported by gphoto. then all u need is USB-hot plug support and ur all done.
On the other hand, i have a firewire CF card reader, and using sb2 driver i can mount my CF card, as a hard disk and do I/O at about 4 MBps.

Re:Good Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux had pcmcia and Compact flash working BEFORE any Microsoft product.

please learn about what you talk about before you open your mouth.

www.kernel.org and start reading.. Linux supports more hardware than Windows XP

Re:Good Idea

[diamondc]

I just stuck one of the compactflash cards into a pcmcia adapter and the adapter into my laptop and the CF card was accessable as /dev/hde1

Re:Good Idea

[gl4ss]

$968.00 for 128mb mem baseline(clicking through).
if the rebate is 150$..

and anyways, it's bigger & yadda yadda yadda.

the thing i like about this lindows laptop is the 256mb mem.

the cpu is sufficient(and energy conservative) enough for a laptop.

sure it won't make a desktop replacement(for a mid-to-high end pc) but for that kind of a laptop you would be coughing up 3-5x the price.

Re:Good Idea

[scm]

However, it has a compact flash, does linux know how to handle that?

It sure does. It works on my laptop with a PCMCIA adapter, and on my iPaq running Familiar. There is also some support for USB CF card readers, but I've never tried that myself

Re:Good Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes - Linux can handle some CF readers 'out of the box'. I'm running RH7.1 and reading pictures off my sandisk imagemate CF reader now (sddr-31 model). It works flawlessly which is more than I could say about the Lexar CF reader I just sold on Ebay.

Yeah, but....

[LordYUK]

How long till someone gets a linux distro to run on it? oh wait...

Re:Yeah, but....

[TrekCycling]

Actually, that's a good question, since Lindows is barely worthy of being called a Linux distro.

Re:Yeah, but....

[bazmonkey]

...Um, that's the joke. Derfwad.

Re:Yeah, but....

[TrekCycling]

No. The "Oh Wait..." part means that the joke was actually a reference to all the jokes where we want to run Linux on something that doesn't come with Linux by default, but then he realized that it does come with linux, thus the "Oh wait".

Derfwad

Windows?

[SirDrinksAlot]

Can you load Windows onto it? :-)

Re:Windows?

[swb]

Heh, I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't mind having XP on something that size, especially if you could get 512MB of RAM.

Re:Windows?

[nadadogg]

I could see myself dual booting winXP for Starcraft and MS access, then redhat or suse for php/perl, etc.

Re:Windows?

[tie_guy_matt]

Putting an alternative OS on a laptop? You still have to pay the evil lindows tax! Don't try to send in your unused lindows cd for a refund since they won't give it to you. And if something goes wrong they will blame the OS even if it is the hardware. Chances are that the tech support people will have never heard of windows and won't be able to help you. It is possible to put an alternative OS that not many people use on a laptop, but it can be a pain in the butt.

Re:Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but Windows costs a large fortune (dabs.com charges GBP 169.02 including VAT and postage; Irish customers pay EUR 278.46 including increased shipping, while the inland price is USD 269.41 for our American readers). Therefore installing Windows somewhat defeats the point, especially since these prices are for the restrictive "Home" edition. Installing the "upgrade edition" is strictly verboten and renders one liable to whatever penalty charge the BSA levies this week, though I'm not sure whether you could acquire Windows 1 or MS-DOS 3 from somewhere (*not* FreeDOS) and install that first to obtain the discounted price. (No buying OEM copies from the computer fair please, or else you will be penalised, and it will probably cost more than any (non-aviation) public transport fine.)

If you *really* insisted on running Windows, go elsewhere. Since in modern times there is little reason (other than for games and for certain obscure programs) to run Windows, this machine is useful for those not wanting to pay the Microsoft levy, so paying the *higher rate* defies logic.

Re:Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

why in gods name would you put XP on, well anything
oooh ugly buttons
that take up 3 inches of the screen

Re:Windows?

[Nameles]

My cost on a WinXP Home OEM copy is $106USD. You're getting fucked by your distributor.

Via processor

[1010011010]

How "well" does that Via/Cyrix 933MHz processor actually perform?

Re:Via processor

[eggz128]

A quick google suggests that it's quite comparable to a 900MHz Celeron

Re:Via processor

[magarity]

Depends on your definition of performing well... Quake3==Lousy, Battery life==pretty darn good

Re:Via processor

[dgoodman]

I've got a Mini-ITX board with that Cyrix CPU on it...I love it to death, it's small, requires only the faintest amount of power, and runs really really cool...but it's not what I'd call a speed daemon. hardly. It weighs in, performancewise, at about the same as a 500MHz PIII. But...it's a) ideal for notbooks for all the above reasons and b) it's dirt freaking cheap. Cheap.

Re:Via processor

[Anonymous Coward]

How "well" does that Via/Cyrix 933MHz processor actually perform?

53039, meet "Dick". "Dick", this is 53039. "Dick" is how this chip performs.

Re:Via processor

[tmasssey]

Here's a quick and dirty link with the closest numbers I can find:

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1396&p =6

This is for the 667MHz chip (which I believe uses the same core). Short answer: a C3 is about 1/3 slower than a Duron or Celeron of similar speed in business benchmarks.

I use the 533MHz Eden processor in a number of embedded-type projects, where CPU power is not overly important. No moving parts, though, is, and the 533MHz doesn't need a CPU fan!

Re:Via processor

[ShavenYak]

I have a C3-800 in my MAME machine and it handles that task pretty well. You're not going to be happy playing UT2003 on it, though. I'd imagine it's plenty of juice for office tasks, email, web surfing, MP3 playing, and the like.

So?

[Dark Lord Seth]

I've seen a P4 2,4ghz, 512mb RAM, 64mb VGA card, 40 or 60gb HD, CD-R(W)/DVD combo, with 15 inch screen for just 999,-, including MS XP and MS Works. Didn't buy one because I simply don't have a need for a laptop. Besides, any OS can be deleted and replaced by some other one.

Re:So?

[dartboard]

So does that behemoth weigh in at 2.9lbs as well? More like 8lbs you say? Ahh I see so they aren't really comparable at all! Glad you straightened us out, thanks!

Re:So?

[WuWarrior]

I highly doubt that price is for a laptop. It looks more like a desktop price. A laptop like that will cost over $2000.

Re:So?

[skeedlelee]

8lbs, heck for that price, it's probably a straight up desktop replacement running straight up desktop parts (read P$ not P4-M). Must have a 45min battery life and could well weight more than 10lbs.

Re:So?

[Mr. Sketch]

Besides, any OS can be deleted and replaced by some other one

In most cases yes, the OS could be replaced, but that doesn't mean that all the hardware will be supported, especially on laptops that may have non-standard parts. That's one of the biggests risks with putting another OS on a laptop.

<anecdote type=story> I had a compaq presario laptop that came with Windows XP, read through the license agreement, didn't want to agree to it so I install an old Win2k I had laying around and it was a major pain to get it working after hours of downloading drivers and trying to figure out the hardware I finally got everything working except the sound. A few days later after tring every driver I could find, and it still not working, I figured I'd try linux. Linux found all the hardware just fine, but still no sound. However, because it was open source I was able to download a path for the kernel and viola! the sound worked. So I happened to get lucky with finding a patch for linux, but not all alternate OSes would probably run. </anecdote>

Re:So?

[quinto2000]

download a path for the kernel and viola! the sound worked.

Voila, not viola. A viola is a musical instrument.

Re:So?

[Mr. Sketch]

Yeah, that's right. I've just spent too much time with my friends who have jokingly pronounced it 'viola' (vie-ohh-laa) instead of the correct pronounciation. I guess after doing that for about 10 years I kinda forgot the real way.

Re:So?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's pronounced Voy-lah!

Competetive comparison

[BMonger]

I don't know all the much but their iBook comparison is off... I think they have Powerbook and iBook specs combined into one notebook... the iBook has a G3 chip not a G4 and I don't think it has PCMCIA slots either...

Re:Competetive comparison

[JumpSuit Boy]

The new 12 inch Powerbook G4 is really a ibook 12 inch with a G4 + metal case. That is what they are comparing it to.

Re:Competetive comparison

[BMonger]

Then they should've stated it was a PowerBook, not an iBook. And as far as I can tell the 12" PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA slots either... whereas the Lindows comparison says it does (providing they are talking about the PowerBook).

Re:Competetive comparison

[Dominic_Mazzoni]

I don't know all the much but their iBook comparison is off... I think they have Powerbook and iBook specs combined into one notebook... the iBook has a G3 chip not a G4 and I don't think it has PCMCIA slots either...

Actually it's just mislabeled. The specs there match the 12" PowerBook perfectly.

The equivalent specs for an iBook would be:

Lindows Mobile PC iBook
CPU 933 MHz VIA C3 700 MHz G3
Memory 256 MB 128 MB
HDD 20 GB 20 GB
Weight 2.9 lbs 4.9 lbs
CD External Internal
Screen 12.1 TFT 12.1 TFT
Res 1024x768 1024x768
USB 2 2
1394 1 1
Flash Y N
LAN Y Y
Modem Optional Y
PCMCIA Y N
Price 799 999

Of course, the iBook comes with an ATI Radeon 7500 with 16 MB of video RAM. The Lindows PC probably has a cheapo video card with no 3D acceleration. It also has built-in speakers, a microphone jack, VGA video out, S-Video out,

If anyone knows how to get this past Slashdot's "junk" filter, please repost this comment!!!

Re:Competetive comparison

[King Babar]

The new 12 inch Powerbook G4 is really a ibook 12 inch with a G4 + metal case.

Well, that together with 802.11g capability, Bluetooth, NVIDIA GeForce4 420 Go graphics, a *slot-loading* combo drive and the option for a Superdrive, a vastly better keyboard and a hinge that should last longer.

Really, if you see one up close, you note both the similarity in spirit to the iBook, but also way too many improvements and changes to make your summary or their comparison especially useful. Or, to put it another way, if they are comparing it to the Powerbook, that is truly being extra cheesy since the Lindows book doesn't even have a CD-ROM or an option for better than hamster-powered graphics, much less the wireless features. The reason why they didn't compare it to the entry level iBook (at $999), is that, just as everybody here has done, the intended audience would say You mean that for $200 more I can get an iBook instead? And I'm guessing that's not a great marketing position for them.

Re:Competetive comparison

[cosmo7]

i'd say they are fully aware of the confusion they're creating. their market is mostly people who are prepared to use an OS other than windows, which means that their principal competitor is Apple. Since the low-end iBook outclasses their machine they are obfuscating the iBook's specs by confusing it with the new PowerBook.

and they would have gotten away with it too, if you meddling kids hadn't gotten involved.

You sure?

[(H)elix1]

I've got one of the fanless 533mhz versions for my car MP3 player project. I'd say it was as fast, if not faster than a pII 400. Not a gaming box, but more than enough horsepower to run Office 97 and Mozilla without problems. Guess that is not really saying much, but that is all folks looking for this type of thing might want -- assuming the battery life was solid.

Who else brands this one?

[magarity]

Obviously this is an OEM model made by someone else (probably VIA themselves). Lindows doesn't have enough market pull to have a custom model made to their own specs. So I bet it is already selling like hotcakes in Southeast Asia with someone else's name on it and Windows installed. Does any recognise it?

Re:Who else brands this one?

[kriston]

Looks somewhat like the ECS Elitegroup iBuddy desknote. Asus makes another generic build-your-own notebook, too.

Kris

Re:Who else brands this one?

[DrinkDr.Pepper]

Looks somewhat like the ECS Elitegroup iBuddy desknote. Asus makes another generic build-your-own notebook, too.

I don't think you've acutally seen and ECS/ELITE/SAGER desknote...They are nothing like this. Unless you don't care that they are 18" X 15" X 3" and weigh 12.5 pounds. (yes I'm exagerating a bit)

Re:Who else brands this one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Taiwan company name Aamax Technology Co., Ltd.

From their site (google cached):

Specially Package
eNOTE OEM Notebook

12.1" Poly-Si TFT/
C3-933 LVM CPU, VIA Chipset
256MB/20GB/56K/LAN/WXP

For more information, please contact with us ASAP.

This not on their website anymore.

Re:Who else brands this one?

[Anonymous Coward]

This notebook was specifically made for LindowsOS. For those wondering.

Re:Who else brands this one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure it was, you friggin moron. That is why it has THREE mouse buttons, because any simpleton designing something for linux would obviously include THREE mouse buttons.

Moron.

Re:Who else brands this one?

[Anonymous Coward]

The pot calling the kettle black. LindowsOS is taking over the desktop market. Ride with them or get drowned.

Their comparison chart sucks

[binaryDigit]

They totally botched the iBook entry in their little comparison chart. They are comparing to the PowerBook not the iBook. You can get a 700mhz iBook for $999, much better comparison. Makes you wonder about their other choices.

Re:Their comparison chart sucks

[delta407]

Makes you wonder about their other choices.

Seconded. They list a Toshiba Portege 2000 as $1700, which came out nearly a year ago and is very, very difficult to find nowadays. (This site took me a while to find and is offering one for $1200.)

You know what though? I paid $1200 two months ago to get a Toshiba laptop. It's not a featherweight (six or seven pounds), but it includes a Pentium 4, 512 MB of RAM, Firewire, a 40 GB disk, and built-in WiFi. And unlike the Lindows box, it has an internal CD-RW/DVD-ROM that ships standard. Plus, the screen is an exceedingly large, crisp, and bright 15" TFT. (Sub-pixel rendering under XFree looks marvelous!) Couple all that power with three and a half hours of battery life and you see why it is my dekstop replacement.

One other thing: the $1200 was before $250 in rebates, all of which have come back already. So, the net is that I paid $150 more than Lindows currently is asking for a laptop that is several times greater in every way. ...explain, again, why I should buy the Lindows laptop?

Re:Their comparison chart sucks

[jokell82]

Also interesting is that they list their "iBook" as having a PCMCIA card slot. Only the 15" and 17" PowerBook models have a PCMCIA card slot, and the cheapest they go for is $2299. I'd really like to see this iBook with a G4 and a PCMCIA card slot, seems like it might be pretty cool.

Re:Their comparison chart sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

They got the screen resolution on the IBM X30 wrong too. It's 1024x768, not 1600x1200. I didn't check any of the other entries; this one just caught my eye.

Re:Their comparison chart sucks

[binaryDigit]

Of course, why didn't I think of this before. They are simply more "in the know" than we are and are stating the specs for some NEW iBook. Here we were blasting them for getting the info "wrong" and all along they were simply smarter than us ;)

idot computers manufactures them

[net_bh]

Here is the CNET news item

Here is a link to the Idot website.

Here is a link to the Gearzoo website.

Re:idot computers manufactures them

[magarity]

idot, the retail mailorder vendor, is owned by MediaLand Systems, Inc. MLS is listed on VIA's website as merely a distributor. Thus, idot does not manufacture these laptops, VIA does.

Re:idot computers manufactures them

[kriston]

VIA doesn't make laptops. They make chipsets and they license their name for motherboards that are manufactured by ECS Elitegroup and Diamond Flower (DFI). I can't find specific details about this laptop but it is likely one of the generic build-your-own notebooks from ECS Elitegroup, Asus, or someone else. See my posting history for some details on those notebooks.

Kris

Re:idot computers manufactures them

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a big kick out of this post... until I realized that it didn't say "Idiot Computers".

933 MHz C3 isn't that good

[pz]

A 933 MHz C3 is approximately equivalent, in real-world horsepower, to a 550 MHz Pentium (on integer tasks, much worse for floating-point). The C3 is not a high-performance architecture, although it has been tweaked for very low power consumption.

Re:933 MHz C3 isn't that good

[mrklin]

I would say it is better than that. I use a VIA C3 900 Mhz processor in a Shuttle small form factor PC (SV24) at home. It uses so little power that it does not require a CPU fan.

It is sufficient enough to do the following without problem:

• Decode MPEG-2 i.e. playback DVD or VOB files.
• Encode and decode MP3.
• Generally Office tasks and web surfing.
• Even gaming (with older games like Counterstrike) if paired up with a decent graphic card.

What it does not well (at least for me):

Encode MPEG-2.

Handle or manipulate large files (800+ MB high bitrate DivX file, apply Photoshop filter to a TIFF file etc, etc). (This is with 512 MB RAM and a large fast driveXP.)

New games that are CPU intensive.

If you have to seriously ask 'Will this have enough power for my (insert task here)?' then a C3 is probably not for you.

$800 is too much to pay for that anyway although I like its hardware specs (both firewire and USB).

Re:933 MHz C3 isn't that good

[pz]

I would say it is better than that. I use a VIA C3 900 Mhz processor in a Shuttle small form factor PC (SV24) at home. It uses so little power that it does not require a CPU fan.

I have played with a nearly identical setup. Like you, my experience was that it was fine for run-of-the-mill use, and not-so-good for computationally intensive tasts, just like a 500-or-so MHz PIII would be. My original comment was based on various benchmarks which have been floating around since the C3 was introduced, the brunt of which is that the C3's main selling point of low power consumption comes at the expense of a significant amount of computational horsepower.

To wit, and echoing what a lot of other posters have said, better to spend a little more money and get a real laptop.

Sotec

[night_flyer]

1.2 celeron, 256 RAM, 20 gig HD (30 if purchased from SAMS), CDR/DVD combo drive $850.00

MUCH better deal IMO.

Bizarro-world /. post

[NineNine]

And what I want to know... will it run Windows 2000? If it can, I'm all over it. That's not a bad deal.

Re:Bizarro-world /. post

[PCM2]

Beyond being funny, this seems like a worthwhile question. Being able to dual-boot wouldn't hurt. (Of course, you'd need an external CD-ROM to install it...)

You get what you pay for.

[old_skul]

It's a VIA 933. An inherently slow chip. And a VIA chipset, which on a laptop is slow, buggy, and power-hungry. This unit won't last more than an hour on batteries, I'd bet.

The general construction of this unit looks pretty cheap. The removable media drive (CD-ROM) is external, and the modem is optional - no wonder it's only $800. It's $800 worth of laptop, and if you want a real laptop that you can get work done on, you'll pay the going rate for one.

Sometimes people forget that the point is to be effective with tools, not simply get the best deal.

Re:You get what you pay for.

[Anonymous Coward]

who doesnt love the 4-in-1 patch for via chipsets?

Re:You get what you pay for.

[Anonymous Coward]

jeez, mr. friggin negativity! they don't advertise this puppy as a powerhouse, and as for being "effective with tools", tell me how effective a conventional, 6-8 lb notebook is in the niche that this sub-3 lb notebook is aimed at?

right, the point is to CHOOSE THE BEST TOOL FOR THE JOB, which does not unilaterally exclude this notebook based upon its performance deficiencies.

Re:You get what you pay for.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, I cannot believe how utterly stupid you are.

you win the crown for town idiot.

the VIA processors are at least 70% more power efficient than ANYTHING made by Intel and 200% more efficient than AMD.

Yes a 933Mhz C3 is the same as a 800Mhz celeron but more like an athalon in Floating Point.

Anything with a C3 processor uses 5-10 watts... THAT IS IT.. Nothing you even know about uses less than 60watts that has the same performance.

you are a complete and utter moron... so shut up.

Re:You get what you pay for.

[kriston]

This is just plain incorrect. This VIA chipset is designed for low-power, small formfactor, and mobile computing--just like the VIA C3 is. This is the very same chipset sold with the later versions of the VIA Eden ITX motherboards

Kris

12.1 inch screen is not a sub-notebook

[Anonymous Coward]

nuff said

Re:12.1 inch screen is not a sub-notebook

[shylock0]

Generally, these things are defined by weight and not size. If you can fit a 12.1 inch screen into a 3 lb. package (which seems to me to be either a dubious claim or a fan-tastic feat of engineering), it's a subnotebook. nuff said

Nice! Does it run Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope I can get Windows 2000 on to this puppy!

Sweeeeeeeeet!

So the reason this was posted was....

[1155]

blatently posted here a few months back:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/22/1256 25 3&mode=flat

have a nice, slash-ad-reading day!

Re:So the reason this was posted was....

[los furtive]

Uhm......no.

I'm just a regular Java developing shmoe located in frigid Canada, who first saw this article on The Register and since Slashdot is USA-centric, not to mention very supportive of anything to do with Linux for the people, I figured it was worth submitting since a lot of people might have missed it and would be very interested. I do not have anything to gain from this, and have no vested interest in either Slashdot, Lindows, Via or any other company mentioned in the post.

I hope this little reply helps shed some light on things, and my I suggest in the future that you take the time to write a proper link?

Oh, and for the record, while I agree an iBook would be close to the same thing, with better brand name recognition...it still costs $200 more, and weighs more too (I could be wrong on this one). Another reason why I submitted this story was that only 3 weeks ago I purchases a Toshiba Portege 4000, which cost about twice the price for similar features, and weighs a pound more! I was hoping somebody might see this and save a buck...although I must admit I'm very satisfied with my Portege.

Re:So the reason this was posted was....

[Petrus]

Thank you for posting it. I would not know about it otherwise. I would seriously give it a try to find out:
- Why is Lindows so "bad"
- Why is Debian soo "Good"
- To see, How hard is it to make a resonably secure computer out of it.
- To support a distribution, that has a ambitions and worthy goal of putting Linux on many desktops.
- To support a distribution, that is from the beginning bullied by all our favorite Linux distribution vedors.

Re:So the reason this was posted was....

[1155]

yeah... but how many stories are advertisement,
and not news? Personally, and this
is just personal, so don't read into this
too much, this was advertisement



Is that enough html for you? Because you seem to have lost the copy/paste functionality within your operating system in order to copy/paste a link with...

Re:negative people

[Geburah]

Here here! Id give you a mod point if I had one. :)

iBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not get an iBook for $999? $799 isn't really that great of a price, especially for a VIA C3 processor. Celeron-based notebooks sell for less than that from major retailers. iBook itself would seem to smoke the Lindows machine for not much more money.

Re:iBook

[masq]

WOW!! GREAT IDEA!! Another Slashdot AC pimping Apple products, including a helpful link to their online store! Awesome! Couldn't take the time to log in, but you could manage a link that has done everything for me but click "Buy Now!". Just what I need, to find that my once favorite company has stooped even lower into the Microsoftian slime of astroturfing.

Dear Apple: Make some faster machines with better bus speeds and RAM, and stop astroturfing. You're becoming more like Microsoft than you think. The reason I bought a Mac was that you WEREN'T like Microsoft. Now that I can't tell the difference, why should I bother?

Lindows...

[zzxc]

While the Lindows laptop is meant for consumers, I don't think it will sell very well. Why? Because most people who would buy a linux computer want a distribution made for power.

The only real market share it would get would be non-computer-literate people who want to use their computers for very limited purposes.

The laptop may also attract people who want to install another linux distribution on it, however.

Re:Lindows...

[theperplepigg]

The only real market share it would get would be non-computer-literate people who want to use their computers for very limited purposes.

Wait, what is the point of Lindows? I thought it was a Linux distro that is geared towards the masses....

Re:Lindows...

[Arkham]

While the Lindows laptop is meant for consumers, I don't think it will sell very well. Why? Because most people who would buy a linux computer want a distribution made for power.

There are two kinds of people who will buy this notebook. The first are the Wal-Mart consumers that buy the $299 Lindows PCs right now. They are not going to care beyond whether they can "do email" or "do internet", and Lindows is fine for that.

The second are people who know what Linux is, know what a distribution is, and know that they do not want to run Lindows. These people will just download an ISO of Debian or Red Hat or whatever and reinstall right away.

Both groups are likely to be interested in this laptop. I might get one if it were 10.4" instead of 12.1". I already have an iBook.

Re:Lindows...

[Jason Earl]

Are you kidding? I already have a desktop for firebreathing horsepower stuff. A wireless card in this bad boy would give me a portable X terminal for use all around my house, and I could still take the thing with me and fire up Emacs when I am on the road. I think this laptop sounds very cool.

Re:Lindows...

[cymen]

It would be really sweet if it had wireless ethernet built in. The PCMCIA cards seem to suck a lot of juice. I don't have any numbers to back this up but my Orinoco card definately cuts into my Dell Inspiron 4000 battery life.

Anyone got some links to power usage on PCMCIA 802.11 cards?

Wouldn't it be nice if....

[old_skul]

...if some nice hardware company, like an HP or a Dell, would produce a low-cost laptop similar to this with *your choice* of distro preconfigured?

No, wait, no one reading /. would want to own one. Instead, wouldn't it be nice if they would sell you a laptop with *no* O/S installed, for $400 less than usual?

I'd buy one.

Re:Wouldn't it be nice if....

[Anonymous Coward]

You would be the only one to not own one. I read slashdot all the time and have used Redhat and mandrake for years. I tried Lindows and it is the easiest and best linux desktop os available. As an IT manager, I have replaced nearly 400 computers at our company with LindowsOS and it only cost me: $99 total. You can not beat the savings. Red Hat is the only way to go for servers but Lindows is set to become the second most widely used desktop os. In less than 1 year, LindowsOS has become the third most widely used Desktop next to OSX and Windows. Get your facts straight before you talk out your A@!!

Marketing Madness

[CommieBozo]

That's quite the web page. I like how it compares their notebook to a nonexistent $1799 G4 iBook and a PDA. Sure, the notebook has a 12.1" screen and the PDA does not, but the PDA is a PDA.

sounds great but

[b17bmbr]

i am wondering, does it support windows? until it all hardware is supported under windows, we can't expect it to take off and appeal to the masses.

Re:sounds great but

[Petrus]

I guess, if Windows don't support laptop hardware, then Windows is probably not ready yet for the laptop market and we'll have to give them a few years to mature before we switch.

Re:negative people

[Anonymous Coward]

i am able to see a trend with other /. readers.

Hey, I can see one too, it's all these people who whine about other people without having a good point. So shut up and let people be negative.

Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[jo_ham]

The second column is titled "ibook" incorrectly (missing the capital even) when the specs in the boxes are clearly for the 12" Powerbook.

As much as I want my iBook to have an 867Mhz G4, it's just not on the cards. All iBooks have G3 processors at 700 or 800MHz, and they cost a darn sight less than $1,700 - the most expensive 12" iBook is $1,300 and blows this Lindows things out of the water.

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple can't capitalize it properly, so don't go expecting anyone else to either.

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[SubtleNuance]

as much as ApPpLe would like you to throw away your common sense and buy their Brand Related Experience, calling something an IBook or iBook or IBOOK is ridiculous. ibook yes, Ibook maybe, but IBoOk? no.

fuck marketroids and their IbooK.

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[jo_ham]

It's a brand name. Much like McDonald's, or a person's name. If they wanted it to be ibook that's what they would have put on the box.

As a supposedly serious business (they are selling a laptop after all), I'd expect Lindows to adhere to the proper names of other products. I'm not going to buy anything from them if they don't bother to check their facts before trying to sell me something.

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[jo_ham]

as much as ApPpLe would like you to throw away your common sense and buy their Brand Related Experience, calling something an IBook or iBook or IBOOK is ridiculous. ibook yes, Ibook maybe, but IBoOk? no.

So FreeBSD is also rediculous. Should it be Freebsd only? What about MySQL, it should obviously be the only true and correct form Mysql?

I see what's happened here. I have mentioned Apple, but I haven't mentioned anything about the one button mouse, or the supposed "stealing" from the OSS community, so you've had to be creative in finding things in my post to bash Apple. Two out of ten for effort. A bonus karma point for bashing use of a capital letter in the middle of a brand name whilst doing the exact same thing with your slashdot username.

Teach me how to be cool like you!

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[cymen]

Well you could at least be realistic and point out you weren't going to buy anything from them anyway!

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

1. So FreeBSD is also rediculous. Should it be...[snip]
   
   Teach me how to be cool like you!

Well, for starters, you can learn how to spell the word "ridiculous" correctly.

Re:Comparison chart at the bottom is wrong

[jo_ham]

Oops, another spelling error attributed to my name in the public eye.

Yes, my name is jo_ham, my website is jo-ham.com.

Anonymous Coward's name is... ah, wait, we don't know.

Of course I make spelling errors and typos. I'm not perfect. I am, however, not afraid to post with a name.

OT: mini-itx

[NorthDude]

Have you considered installing a mini-itx board?
They are VERY small board with every thing integrated onto it.
They are made by VIA and are actually quite cheap!

VIA VT8606 (Twister-T) + VT82C686B Chipset

[whats4lunch]

I believe the video is integrated in the chipset. This is clearly not a gaming machine so the video is good enough.
I got the chipset from this website:
http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec .asp?Produ ct.id=787&Cate.id=2

Hmm

[xQuarkDS9x]

*Wonders if this will show up at Walmart*. :D

Sound?

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

I didn't see any mention of sound. For me, that's somewhat important in a laptop, as I like to listen to music while I'm coding on a plane or in the car (if I'm not driving mind you) or even at work.

Re:Sound?

[lobotomy]

You don't believe in reading very far, do you?

FEATURES

• 12.1" 1024 x 768 TFT Display
• VIA C3 933MHz Processor
• VIA VT8606 (Twister-T) + VT82C686B Chipset
• 256MB PC-133 SDRAM onboard, support up to 768MB SDRAM
• 20.0GB ATA100 Hard Disk Drive
• External CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, DVD/CD-RW (optional)
• Integrated Savage 4 AGP 4X graphic core (up to 16MB Video Memory)
• Full Duplex, Compliant with AC' 97 Audio
• 2 x USB 2.0 & 1 x IEEE 1394 ports
• 1 Compact Flash Slot & 1 PCMCIA Slot
• Internal Realtek 10/100 LAN
• LindowsOS 3.0 with dedicated tech support
• Removable Li-Ion Battery
• Dimensions: 10.43" x 8.66" x 0.91" & Weight: 2.9 lbs
• Two Year Warranty

Re:Sound?

[Petrus]

And the VT82C686B = VIA133KLE chipset has great support from VIA. There is perhaps 100 PDF documents (about 6 pages each) on VIA technical support, that describe, how to make every advanced feature of the chipeset (Video, ATA133, 100baseT, lm_sensors, IrDA, Cyrix Power Savings modes, USB) to work with RedHat, Mandrake and Suse - last 3 versions of them. It works great! See: Linux Drivers

Heh

[arvindn]

Since you're sure all the hardware works with linux, you can buy the thing, wipe the disk and install RH/Debian/Gentoo whatever.

What!?

[Idou]

"The Dell Inspiron you quote is 6.8lbs -- roughly 2.5 times the size of the Lindows PC."

That's roughly 2.5 times more 'puter for you money!

Looks like you dun made yourself a fool.

$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Wasn't it just a few days ago that someone on "Ask Slashdot" was looking for a value-priced notebook whose purchase price did not include the Microsoft tax?

This really is a breakthrough, despite it being LindowsOS. This is, perhaps, the first time you can buy a truly Linux-preloaded notebook, as opposed to some of those other "boutique" shops where a Linux machine costs 50-100% more than the same machine loaded with Windows from a first-tier vendor (usually because they simply bought the machine from one of those first-tier vendors and then threw away the Windows license).

But as usual, Slashdotters will find something to complain about. I'm not complaining. As enamoured as I am with my ThinkPad (which I bought used), if I were in the market for a notebook computer right now, I'd give this one some serious consideration.

This is the first time in history that a notebook vendor isn't charging you more for a computer with an operating system that costs less. Even if the very first thing you do is erase LindowsOS and install RedHat, this is still a significant milestone.

Re:$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[Tyreth]

That's really unfair. Lindows is using deceptive marketting to advertise their laptop. We have reservations about Lindows because of a lot of stuff they have been doing - they just don't look like a company with great integrity.

Now if this was Gentoo, Mandrake, etc then I don't think we'd have much complaint.

Excepting of course comments on people's personal preferences. And that's exactly that, personal preference.

Re:$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[marsonist]

...and what exactly was deceptive? And what have they done that shows a lack of integrity.

Come on, you make claims, substantiate them.

Re:$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[Tyreth]

They compared their laptop to an apple notebook, showing the mhz rating as if they were supposed to be somehow similar in power but different in costs.

And comparing a laptop to a PDA???

And them changing their plans for the conference recently so their CEO spoke first (they are sponsoring the event, but they changed it quite late, and the event is not a lindows event but a linux one).

Re:$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[vsync64]

Wah wah wah, Apple apologist, someone might not buy my favorite brand, Lindows is to be attacked for putting facts in a table.

Pathetic that you trot out the old "MHz myth" whine. I was actually intrigued earlier in the discussion when someone pointed out that the price shown was that for a low-end PowerBook. That was something legitimate issue can be taken with (and Lindows is responding). Your cringing and moaning is old hat.

Everyone knows by now that PPC performs differently than x86. What's the big deal? When I'm comparing 2 products based on different technologies I take that into account. Are Mac zealots too lazy to just multiply in a fudge factor when comparing specs?

Lindows cannot be flamed for listing the specs of their product, then listing the corresponding specs of competing products. If you'll notice, they even list that the Apple laptop has a CD-R and theirs doesn't. And a bigger hard drive. And a modem in the base model. What, do you expect them to go on a Apple marketing spree in the middle of their site? "Please note that PPC is really cool and you should go buy an Apple laptop because Apple is really fast, somehow, even though they are based off of Mach microkernel (deprecated by CMU due to efficiency concerns), don't release SPEC results to back up their claims, and are based off of sludgy dying Motorola PPC instead of delicious fast IBM PPC."

And comparing a laptop to a PDA???

This is pathetic. Lindows lists the reasons for such a comparison right on the page:

Are You Considering a PDA? The Lindows Mobile PC beats a PDA or Pocket PC hands-down. Now (for only a few dollars more), you can have extreme mobility with the power and versatility of a PC in one affordable computer!

Mobility, power, and versatility. When I worked for a software/hosting company, I had a small Sony Vaio laptop. Very light, very easy to carry. I loved it, and I used my Visor quite a bit less because the Vaio was so convenient to have around. When I got laid off and I had to give the Vaio back, I started using the Visor more because my Dell Latitude is more of a pain to haul out.

I worked retail for a while. There were quite a few people who said "I'd like to get a laptop but they're heavy and expensive." and "Will this PalmOS/PocketPC unit run desktop software?". I steered a number of people to tiny units like the Sony PictureBook because of these concerns. Also don't forget that HP had that long Jornada with the flip screen and the keyboard. These are competitors that they need to address.

I love my Visor, but there are things (coding, writing long documents, etc) that a laptop is more handy for. Many people would jump at the opportunity to merge both into a single unit. Lindows doesn't beat you over the head. "BUY OUR L33T LAPTOP tO SURF TEH INTARWEB, WE ARE COOL3R THAN MAC AND MICRO$OFT. IF YOU GET A PALM YOU MUST GO DOWN THE STAIRS!!!!!!!!!@" No, it's "Are you considering...?" and they leave it at that. Get over yourself.

If you'd rather have a PDA, go for it. Just keep renaming your contact list to be a fake MP3 track and storing it on your iPod, Apple Boy. Keep holding your breath for the hack that will let you enter text on the jog wheel. I remember entering text that way. In the 1980s. On a Nintendo console. 20 years later I expect to be able to handwrite or type my text.

And for the record, I'm sitting on an iMac to type this right now, that I paid good money for. I don't despise Apple hardware (although the CD-ROM drive decided to crap out and take my ability to read many CDs and any CD-Rs with it). It's somewhat more efficient for the tasks I tend to do, and I leave it at that. But posts like yours are the reason I'm running a Linux-based OS on it and have no interest in going to OS X.

I had a problem getting xpdf to work the other day; I emailed the author and he helped me get it working. With Apple it would be "Oh that firmware update we released disabled your system because you didn't buy your RAM from Apple", or "Sorry, that über cool Web browser that uses KHTML ohhhh hohhhhhhhhhh so sexy technology we released did rm -rf on your home directory", or a deluge of insults from the fanboy peanut gallery saying that my workflow isn't properly merged into the Apple Document Model Reality Field Editing Mode. And the Apple world nickel-and-dimes you on shareware stuff. People release attractive software into the rest of the Unix world for free; I participate in this ecosystem myself. Meanwhile Apple users are like "pay $5 for this utility to make menus come up with control-alt-meta-double-bucky-on-the-one-mouse-but ton when you click here".

Here's a quote:

One benefit from this exercise is that I've been disabused of the idea that things would be systematically better were I to ditch Linux and switch to MacOSX. Macs seem to be approximately as finicky and fragile as real Unix systems, except that they like to fail silently instead of giving you obscure error messages. I've already developed a deep and abiding hate for that hidious little spinning rainbow disc that means "something has probably gone horribly wrong, but I'm going to protect you from knowing what."

I think I'll stick to systems that don't continue to charge premium prices while cheapening out at the same time (IDE instead of SCSI, etc), and operating systems that may waste my time, but at least don't charge for the privilege, thanks.

And yes, Lindows is vile for that trade show thing. I don't think there are many people who actually believe Michael Robertson is in it for altruism or because he feels community spirit.

Re:$699 a bargain for a Linux notebook

[Tyreth]

WTF are you on?!?

First of all I am NOT an apple user. I love Linux, I'm a Linux user through and through. Well done for sorting out your xpdf problems, I couldn't be happier for you.

Second, if you agree with me on their trade show thing then good, we have common ground! My point proven! So why talk about me whining when your whole post is one big winge about how I'm some luser apple guy who is upset with lindows for misrepresenting it. It's simply not true. I'm all for Linux on laptops, and I think Lindows is doing a good job. I just don't appreciate comparing apples with oranges because most people don't know that apple is different. They think mhz comparisons are relevant. So everything you just said is "we know that, so what?" - the people who read it won't know. That's my fricking point.

And as for the PDA, they are suggesting that they are somehow equal. Take my family car example from before. I just don't think those are fair comparisons. Something like "Are You Considering a PDA? Perhaps a Lindows laptop is more suited to your role. You are probably better off with a Lindows laptop if..." Instead they make it sound as if the only reason you'd buy a PDA is for cost. That's deceptive. I'm all for proposing a laptop over a PDA, just don't deceive people! You said yourself most people have no idea that a PDA can't run their desktop software, so maybe buying a laptop they won't realise the consequences. Eg, with a PDA there is no need to manage a full OS yourself, since it's embedded into the device. With a laptop you might have to deal with formats n' stuff. Right tool for the right job. I might overlook this PDA comparison, except in conjunction with other observations, it is seen in a different light.

I couldn't care less if you don't agree with me, but at least stop winging and get your facts straight - you can't tell the difference between a Mac-head and a Linux lover. I have no intention of getting an apple in the future because of the reasons you mention. It is strange that you can't understand how someone desperately eager to see Linux get a chunk of the desktop space (yes, I do) still be critical of a Linux company when they make deceptive advertisements. Perhaps I'd just like Linux companies to act with integrity? Is that so hard to understand??

Pocket PC and Wireless LAN

[Anonymous Coward]

The tick list at the bottom of the page says that Pocket PC doesn't have a PCMCIA slot for WLAN.

Which kind of misses the point, as Pocket PC is an OS and not a single PDA.

Let's run with the product pictured though -- it doesn't have a PCMCIA slot. But it does have integrated WLAN. Doh.

Re:Pocket PC and Wireless LAN

[DiscoOnTheSide]

Actually if you talk to Microsoft it's a "platform" We all know it's a OS (If you install Linux on an iPaq, is it no longer a pocket pc? does it magically lose it's ability to fit in your pocket?) but for ignorant marketroids, it's another "bonus" when you buy it.

Lindows is satan..

[xchino]

I would never suggest Lindows for ANYONE. Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea. I was super hyped about it being sold on cheap wal-mart PCs. Then I checked it out for myself. Here's what I found that I didn't like...

It always runs under single user mode. IRC somewhere, and you IRC as root. STUPID.

Click'n'Run doesn't work until you subscribe. Then you get to pay for all your software that you could have installed as easily with any other package manger, and a few commercial versions of free software.

That's where they went wrong IMHO. I can understand the financial reason for the Click'n'Run situation, but I see no justification for crippling Linux security to such an extent. I was hoping for a version of Linux that my Windows friends could use. Instead I got a generic version of Windows.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[Petrus]

1. Can't you enable multipe users and adduser?
That should be no problem!

2. Can't you downlowad Debian packages?

If you do not know, how to exit single user, how to adduser or how to apt-get, they you pay, I gess with $$$ and with lesser security.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[NineNine]

Regular PC users don't care about security. Let me repeat that... Regular PC users don't care about security. Extra complexity for "security" is NOT a selling point for most PC's. It's a downside, if anything. What the fuck do most PC users have to secure? What's so critical that Joe user needs tight security?

Re:Lindows is satan..

[xchino]

No you can not add more users in single user mode. Nor can you exit single user mode in Lindows. You could "downlowad" Debian packages, after you install apt, from source. That's a bit much for someone trying to make the jump to windows. They're more likely to think that Linux sucks, based on the Lindows experience.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[alienw]

Apparently, you are retarded. I think the things you mention have been adressed about a million times already.

First, the running-as-root idea was smart. The slashdot masses need to understand that people do NOT want to fuck with passwords, usernames, and that shit on their PC. On a server, fine, but not on a PC.

You don't install a super-secure keycard system for every room in your house, do you? That would be fucking annoying, and would at most protect you from yourself. That's about what the regular distributions are set up like. That does not make them any more secure. If you don't have many users on the system, then you don't need the unix password system and you might as well run as root. Yes, you need to have external services shut off, but Lindows is very good in that regard. So, care to enlighten me about how to hack a system with no open ports and a strict iptables config, even if it doesn't have a root password?

Besides, your argument is invalid in any case. If you don't want to run as root, you are free to create a normal account. Lindows supports that.

As for click and run, I have one word for you: easy. I subscribe to Mandrakeclub for the same reason. It makes it easier to get stuff for your distro. Yes, I could fuck with .tar.gz sources and get them to maybe run on my system, but I'd rather pay a few bucks so somebody else does the dirty work. What's the problem with that?

If you don't like Lindows, use Mandrake. I like them, but I can see where Lindows might fit in. The fact that something might not be intended for certain types of uses is a concept slashdot whores can't grasp.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[t3kad0n]

In the newest version (3.0), you aren't always root. That was a major problem with a lot of people, so they fixed it. Its not *that* evil.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[xchino]

Obviously you are an asshat. People don't want to mess with user names and passwords? Well you should rush this information to Microsoft who requires the administrator account in 2000/XP to have a password for ANY remote access. However as a Lindows user, I could easily install SSH or telnet with no password, effectively becoming a DDoS client for any script kiddy with a port scanner. This also means that if I've installed an exploitable program, it'll HAVE to be exploited as root.

I can almost accept that if a user doesn't REALLY doesn't want to mess with passwords they can go passwordless, but it is asinine to SUGGEST they do so.

No, you can not add users in single user mode. This is why it is called SINGLE user mode. A google search for multi user mode Lindows
provides 0 useful links on information on how to get Lindows running in multi user mode. I think you're full of shit. Post a link proving yourself. Even if it is possible, You think someone making the switch is gonna have any idea how to pass parameters to his kernel at boot time? What would be the point of that anyways? All your permissions would still be fucked because root owns everything, readable, writeable, or executable and every combination thereof.

Your assertion that the default security schema is what determines a system's security is idiocy. An OS is no good without applications. And besides, Lindows does NOT have a strict iptables configuration. It is closer to Redhat's "medium" firewall.

I agreed Click'n'Run was easy to use, but so is rpm, apt, portage, insert any of the hundreds of autopackagers. Instead of using one of these, they created their own packaging system with no benefits and several drawbacks, simply for the sake of residual income. As I said.. I can understand this from a fiscal standpoint, but it's a "morally bankrupt" decision.

And as far as using a newbie distro like Mandrake,.. no thanks. I use real distros, not RedHat knock-offs. If I was suggesting a newbie distro, Lycoris wins hands down. Mandrake really has nothing unique to offer, but even it bests Lindows for a newbie.

All in all, your post was uninformed and your arguments were flimsy, at best.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[Petrus]

I did not mean to add more users in single user mode. I meant to edit /etc/inittab and /etc/init.d to boot next time into multiple user mode.

And I agree, installing apt-get probably won't be made very easy.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[IamTheRealMike]

It always runs under single user mode. IRC somewhere, and you IRC as root. STUPID.

No, we're the stupid ones. Sorry, but the user/root distinction makes sense on a server but not on a single user desktop. It just gets in the way.

What you say? It's insecure? Perhaps the solution then is to write more secure apps, bearing in mind that if somebody cracks your IRC client they can still wipe out your personal data, execute programs at startup, turn your box into a warez box or whatever. Not being root doesn't stop any of that.

That move by Lindows was a wakeup call. Sorry, but it was. We need to make security less of a pain in the ass.

Re:Lindows is satan..

[t0ny]

Please dont feed the zealot trolls.

This guy just throws around semi-technical sounding jargon and lines it into one ranting, contrarian-to-Microsoft post.

xchine is one of the Linux users that give Linux users a bad name. And if you happen to like MS products, you are evil and stupid in his so-important-to-himself worldview.

Re:Can Lindows help me to

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really think anyone really gives a flying fuck about you kiwi sheep-shaggers?!!!

Technically, you're not even Americans!

Re:negative people

[Anonymous Coward]

We may be negative, but its because we can see through all the bullshit.

Re:First post

[Anonymous Coward]

You know what? You failed miserably.

iBook PCMCIA?

[clmensch]

Uh...call me crazy but the iBook does NOT have a PCMCIA slot.

Re:iBook PCMCIA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it has one PCMCIA slot. Designed for Apple's Airport card. It's under the keyboard.

My flatmate has one.

-- Xoder

Re:iBook PCMCIA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me mister obvious, but the iBook does not have a G4 either.

Re:iBook PCMCIA?

[clmensch]

Well that doesn't count. It's a nonstandard size, and impossible to use with any other card. I'd hardly call that comparable to this product's PCMCIA slot.

This looks like an great laptop!

[Kiwi]

When I look for a laptop, I choose a laptop based on three factors:

• Cost (check)
• Size and weight (check)
• Full-size keyboard (I want one of these things in front of me to make sure the keyboard is almost as good the one on the Thinkpad I am writing this on)
• Battery life (check)
• Linux compatibility (check)

Note that performance is not listed here; I am typing this on a PIII 450 and am more than happy with its performance. I want a laptop which does not need charging and does not need a forklift to carry around. If I wanted performance or the latest gee-whiz 3d chipset, I would get a desktop.

If the economy was better and I was working again instead of being a student, this is something I would very seriously consider buying. As it stands, this is my dream laptop.

- Sam

Re:This looks like an great laptop!

[Anonymous Coward]

'three' = 5 or 6 ?

Review of Lindows

[lwbecker2]

In case you haven't seen any reviews of Lindows, a recent review can be found here.

Compared to a PDA?

[Treebeard the Ent]

How can for compare a laptop PC to a PDA? I certaily hope my PDA doesn't have a 12.1" screen or a full sized keyboard sticking out of it (although you can buy one to plug into it) 20 gig hd? nope, but you don't need that much with your PDA (unless you're using it as an MP3 Player too).

It like Sunkist selling thier oranges saying: Our oranges are orange and juicy... apples aren't. Our oranges are great for making orange juice... apples are not. Our oranges taste like oranges... apples do not.

Re:Compared to a PDA?

[infinite9]

It like Sunkist selling thier oranges saying: Our oranges are orange and juicy... apples aren't. Our oranges are great for making orange juice... apples are not. Our oranges taste like oranges... apples do not.

You're a fucking genius! You have an MBA don't you?! That is truly the work of a brilliant marketing mind. Maybe you should consider opening your own marketing firm. You'll make millions... at least until someone opens a business school in Bangalore.

Re:Compared to a PDA?

[Anonymous Coward]

> How can for compare a laptop PC to a PDA? I
> certaily hope my PDA doesn't have a 12.1" screen....
>
> It like Sunkist selling thier oranges saying: Our
> oranges are orange and juicy... apples aren't.
> ...oranges taste like oranges... apples do not.
>
Yes but don't forget that apples come with screens larger than 12.1" -- oranges don't, they're more colourful than any orange, and they're able to run many (ported) Linux apps. I'd dare someone to try to port OpenOffice or Mozilla to an orange.

apples rule. oranges suck.

Re:Compared to a PDA?

[sootman]

god dammit, what does ever slashdotter have against Apples?!?!?! ;-)

Re:Compared to a PDA?

[Tellalian]

How can for compare a laptop PC to a PDA? I certaily hope my PDA doesn't have a 12.1" screen or a full sized keyboard sticking out of it (although you can buy one to plug into it) 20 gig hd? nope, but you don't need that much with your PDA (unless you're using it as an MP3 Player too).

It like Sunkist selling thier oranges saying: Our oranges are orange and juicy... apples aren't. Our oranges are great for making orange juice... apples are not. Our oranges taste like oranges... apples do not.

Actually, from the facts you mention it sounds more like comparing oranges and tangerines. An $800 subnotebook and a $600-$700 pda might have more incommon than you'd think.

Re:Compared to a PDA?

[catch23]

I don't agree with this. Why is it that smaller devices cost more $$$ than big ones? Why not compare the $600-$700 with an equivalent desktop build? I bet I can make a LCD desktop with $800 and have stuff like a 2400+ AMD chip in it.

Re:Compared to a PDA?

[Tellalian]

I don't agree with this. Why is it that smaller devices cost more $$$ than big ones?

Uh...if you were following the thread you'd notice that technically the "smaller" $600-$700 pda doesn't cost more than the "larger" $800 notebook (that's a little trick I like to call "math"). The comparison is made because the prices are similar and both aim to be light and portable.

Why not compare the $600-$700 with an equivalent desktop build? I bet I can make a LCD desktop with $800 and have stuff like a 2400+ AMD chip in it.

You'd probably not make that comparison for the same reason you don't carry around a desktop PC in your pocket, which, even if you could, you'd might not want to with a 2400+ AMD. ouch!

zdnet also has the story

[cribb]

another url is http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-985265.html check it out

Interesting Marketing piece.

[angst7]

But I fail to see any mention of the fact that Lindows is a (inferior?) Linux distribution. Surely we all know this, but I couldn't find so much as the word linux on that page. That coupled with the already mentioned questionable product comparison chart has me a bit peeved.

That said, I think I'll stick with my Dell Latitude/ Redhat 8 combo. It's like joy and love all bundled together in the nicest little package.

---
Jedimom.com, tastes like burning.

Re:Interesting Marketing piece.

[Mistah Blue]

I see no reason why you couldn't just get this and blow Lindows away and replace with your favorite distro. That said, I agree with preferring my Latitude/RedHat8 combo too.

Doom 1, not Doom 3

[yerricde]

Not quite Doom III territory, is it?

You're right. Most people who would want to play cutting-edge games on a laptop computer are people who are tired of hauling a heavy box to LAN parties. Such laptops tend to run in the multi-thousand dollar range.

People who buy a laptop like this Lindows machine for LAN parties are buying it more for older Doom and Quake 1 engine games, or possibly RTS games, which (apart from WC3 and the other very latest games) don't demand much from 3D hardware.

Bad chipset choice

[Erwos]

I wasn't even aware that the Savage4 had functional 3D-accelerated drivers. It's hard to say in good faith "this notebook supports Linux" if you can't even run a 3D app properly.

Nice try, but you could probably get a Dell laptop that's faster and cheaper despite the Windows tax. Sure, this one comes with Lindows, but that doesn't matter if the hardware support is not there...

-Erwos

Re:Bad chipset choice

[Anonymous Coward]

You're off base here. If it doesn't support 3D apps, you might argue that it doesn't have good XWindows support, but you certainly cannot argue that it doesn't support Linux. If that's the case, then the Pentium II-300 that I have sitting in the basement with a crappy non-3d supported video card, that's happlily handling my firewalling with the words Linux 2.4 displayed in text must not be running Linux either.

Re:Bad chipset choice

[Anonymous Coward]

As much it hurts people who enjoy quarelling over pain-staking details, XFree86 is the main graphics solution for Linux for desktop use. Taken in the context of LindowsOS "Linux for the masses", support for the major graphics system definitely falls under the umbrella of Linux support. And wrt to your post, where the hell did you get non-supported hardware COMPONENT equals not running Linux? My USB 2.0 ports don't have drivers, but does that mean my computer is/isn't running Linux? No, having drivers has nothing to do with what OS you are running (of course it implies what selection of drivers you have available, but not your OS itself). Duh!

Re:Bad chipset choice

[Erwos]

I believe you're getting confused. I didn't say "lack of capability means lack of support for Linux ", I said "lack of support for hardware capability means lack of support for Linux".

My laptop not having USB doesn't mean it's unsupported by Linux. My laptop having USB and having the USB chipset not be able to function properly in Linux means the USB is not supported by Linux.

The onboard video on the Lindows-Laptop has mediocre 3D capabilities in hardware, but you can't access them in Linux... hence, the 3D is unsupported by Linux. I promise, it's not hard to understand.

-Erwos

Re:Bad chipset choice

[Anonymous Coward]

VIA has 3d drivers for the chipset on the laptops. i have reviewed and tested several and it runs fine. it is an excellent laptop for a student or as a second family system.

I'll wait for the reviews thanks...

[sterno]

This looks like it could be a good platform, but I'm immediately concerned with the fact that it doesn't come with a CD-ROM drive. It says it's an optional add on, but it's going to be awfully hard to wipe Lindows off there and put a real Linux on it without a CD-ROM (hmmmmm....).

According to Tom's Hardware:

Depending on the particular benchmark, an old Celeron 667 is either considerably faster or considerably slower, making it difficult to specify a recommendation for VIA's C3


So ultimately the raw performance is going to be rather dependent on the application. The video card looks to be adequate for office needs and some light 3D use, but it's nothing spectacular.

I find it interesting to note that the laptop contains no built in modem. Given that the modems built into most laptops don't work with linux, that's not surprising.

It looks like they are trying to find a niche in between hand helds and laptops. I'm not betting much on them having success in that space. The problem is that anything too big to fit in a shirt pocket or purse becomes a hassle to lug around. At that point, you have to have some other way to carry the device and you may as well get a full-size if lightweight laptop.

Re:I'll wait for the reviews thanks...

[mb77]

I'm also concerned about battery time. Although the C3 doesn't consume much power (for a desktop processor), I'm not sure how it stacks aginst other mobile CPUs in that area. There is no word about having a second battery either. If it doesn't last at least 3 hours, it's not for me. About the modem part, the pictures on the site show some RJ11 connector next to the Network RJ45. -- Mathias

Re:I'll wait for the reviews thanks...

[Quill_28]

Ah yes, but putting FreeBSD on a system with no CD-ROM is a piece of cake. Assuming it can reconize the NIC, of course. :)

Sorry for the jab, but installing Linux without CD-Rom is a hassle.

Re:I'll wait for the reviews thanks...

[lnixon]

Ah, well, no. I recently installed a Beowulf
cluster where the nodes had neither floppy drives,
nor CD:s.

Just a matter of PXE booting them into a network
installation. No sweat.

Even if this laptop might not support PXE, I'm sure
it would be rather trivial to reinstall it.

Re:I'll wait for the reviews thanks...

[Quill_28]

Ah yes, I forgot about installing my Beowulf cluster with PXE booting. What was I thinking! I'll get right on that. ;-)

PCMCIA slots or PC-card slots?

[udif]

The specifications says PCMCIA, which is roughly laptop version of ISA.

All modern laptops have PC-card slots which are derived from PCI, but have a PCMCIA compatibility mode.

Re:PCMCIA slots or PC-card slots?

[williw]

PCMCIA slots == PC-Card slots.

a quick search for google should reveal your answers: a sample primer

in the case of unuable/newer/older cards; only the PCMCIA controller's adherence to whatever version of the PCMCIA standard was around when it was manufactured will determine if the card will work or not. ISA or PCI is irrelevant since the controller can be attached to either bus type. If you have an older controller chip you probably can't use the newer 3.3v/ cardbus/ dma cards, etc cause they weren't written into the specification yet.

The iBook doesn't run proprietary x86 software

[yerricde]

Sure, it's possible to buy an iBook computer for $200 more than this, but an iBook won't run proprietary Linux applications that the publisher offers only in x86 format. Even if you do put on Connectix Virtual PC and install Linux on that, it still won't run anywhere near full speed because of the emulation overhead.

Re:The iBook doesn't run proprietary x86 software

[Anonymous Coward]

Duhhh, yeah... proprietary Linux software. Get an iook so you can lug around twice as much weight and run non-proprietary Microsoft applications to your hearts content! Duhhhh...

Windows

[sh0gun]

Of course the obvious questions is - But will it run Windows?

Re:Windows

[weeboo0104]

Of course! Except in Soviet Russia, where WINDOWS RUNS YOU!

Re:Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I think you`ll find that in Soviet Russia, dead horses beat you.

A good sign

[JavaJoint]

This is good because it starts to focus attention on an emerging LinLap market.

I find their ad to be slightly misleading. First they say this:

"High-speed wireless service is cropping up everywhere - "Starbucks," college campuses and anywhere people gather. Staying connected to your data whenever and wherever you need it is smart and Lindows.com answers the call with its brand new Lindows Mobile PC..."

And then they say: " plus a PCMCIA slot to add even more functionality such as wireless networking"

...So wireless is not standard, though their promo material will throw off a few. Interesting that a modem is optional too. I predict that within a year we'll see a laptop with similar specs with a modem and 802.11b, running Red Hat, for $850, from a "name brand" vendor.

Who makes this laptop?

I wonder....

[lwbecker2]

if I could install Windows on it? It is a pretty cheap for such a LIGHT sub notebook. Get an old Win98 install CD and....

$200 more get an iBook featuring a *real* OS!

[whjwhj]

For $999 get the iBook. You'll be running the state-of-the-art Mac OS X as opposed to some cheesy Linux thing attempting to pose as some cheesy Windows thing.

Fromthe Lindows FAQ

[TheAwfulTruth]

"What Microsoft® Windows applications will LindowsOS(TM) run?"

"The quick answer is that LindowsOS(TM) will not run Microsoft Windows applications at a level of quality we're satisfied with."

Somehow I doubt it'll meet the satisfaction of many Windows users either...

Apparently the "dows" in Lindows is just a marketing trick to get people talking about it. No publicity is bad publicity.

In reality is is just a subscription based Linux OS that will end up costing more and being less useful to real Linux users than Red Hat and cost more and be less useful than a preloaded Windows install (With software) for the non-Linux geek.

But they sure do try hard! That notebook does look nice and most of the comments here seem to be "Can I put on that?" or "Can I put Windows on that"? Almost XBox like, since they hope to make their real money on the subscriptions. Hopefully they are making money on the laptop at least :)

but... will it run...

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Windows2000?

Dual boot Linux and Windows?

[eyefish]

Can someone post if it is possible to dual-boot Linux and Windows on this puppy? Then this would be a killer machine for the price!!!

Shit...that's a good ______ !

[Shit...that's a good]

Nickname!!!

Hi! please allow me to introduce myself. I am "Shit....that's a good _______"

I will be responding to random postings with little fill-in-the-blank tidbits.

Enjoy! Because, Shit.....that's a good ______ !

Re:Can Lindows help me to

[Anonymous Coward]

And the connection between a post from Perth, WESTERN AUSTRALIA, and New Zealand (Kiwiland), which is about 5000 miles away is?

btw, I agree that Kiwis are turds

Might as well be from the article...

[BMonger]

Are You Considering an Etch a Sketch? The Lindows Mobile PC beats an Etch a Sketch or Ghost Writer hands-down. Now (for only a few (hundred) dollars more), you can have extreme mobility with the power and versatility of a PC in one affordable computer!

Gee... ya think?

Fake comparison specs!

[sexysasian]

Not to dis' this fine piece of hardware, but some of the specs for the "compared" notebooks are untrue, mostly the iBook's. First of all, there is no such thing as a G4 iBook, only G3s exist, and they're not $1,799, but more like $999-$1,200. Utter bullshit. Why they gotta' lie like that?

Kudos for Lindows people!

[Petrus]

Like on the Walmart computer, what is good for Lindows is that them make sure that all hardware works perfecly with Linux.

Misinformation

[smcavoy]

It's a PowerBook their comparing their system to, which is no comparison at all. The PoweBook smokes it in everyway (except of course price), it's like comparing a BWM M3 to a Hyundai Tiberon...
And they forgot that the 12.1" PowerBook DOESN'T have a PCMCIA slot.
And a comparison to a PDA? WTF? can you stick the laptop in your jacket or pant pocket? NO!
Do real people decide between a PDA and laptop? That seems nuts, both provide completely different user experiences....

Fine it's a cheap laptop that's M$ free, but get the facts straight.

Re:Misinformation

[nekura]

And a comparison to a PDA? WTF? can you stick the laptop in your jacket or pant pocket? NO!

You can if you have one of these :). Just make sure you don't sitdown with a lot of force while storing a laptop in the back pocket.

Just use the Debian apt-get

[BroncoInCalifornia]

I understand Lindows is based on Debian with the apt-get utility. One can just add the packages they want with this utility and forget about the Lindows part. Otherwise the Lindows software subscription makes Lindows the most expensive distro out there. If you go the apt-get route, make a contribution to Debian.org and come out ahead.

Does it run Windows?

[Glonoinha]

No seriously - if I wanted to install my own Windows 2000 Professional or WinXP, or whatever ... are drivers available for it?

Not that I am even remotely interested in doing so (I would get the $699 Dell 2650C mentioned earlier if I was) but I am just wondering.

Like everyone will run Lindows

[Zog The Undeniable]

1. Buy inexpensive notebook with Lindows
2. Reformat and install Devil's Own copy of Windows XP Pro
3. ???
4. Profit!

Re:Like everyone will run Lindows

[Anonymous Coward]

3. Sell notebook at cost plus Microsoft Tax to unsuspecting college freshman.
3.5 Skip town.

Academic discount?

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing Apple's always been really good about is academic discounts. The PowerBook in question, for example (which they mistakenly called an "iBook"), sells for $1799, but if you're at all associated with an educational institution, it's only $1499.

Not that anybody would complain about a laptop computer being as cheap as this Lindows one...

Re:XP

[Anonymous Coward]

Who let you in here?

Battery Life?

[hirschma]

Anyone know what the battery life on this little guy is? If it exceeds 3 hours, I'd be interested. If it can go 5 hours, I'll buy one.

It'd be nice to have a utility machine that you can just throw into your bag, with a disposable price.

Maplesoft, not Microsoft

[yerricde]

Microsoft

Nowhere did I mention Microsoft. By "proprietary Linux applications" I was primarily referring to the Waterloo Maple algebra package site-licensed by some universities. There is a Windows version and a Linux/x86 version but no Mac OS X version, Darwin+X11 version, or Linux PPC version.

Re:Maplesoft, not Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Maple algebra is the worst software package I've ever come across. I'd stay away from Linux just to keep that crap away from my machine.

Re:Maplesoft, not Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm... nice to know you don't have a clue.

Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[juuri]

Standard laptop PeeCee parts so enjoy putting whatever OS on it you want:

PC-UM10 from sharp

Sharp 2.9lb laptop: P3-600, 128meg ram, 20gig drive

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[Anonymous Coward]

-no vga video out except through $129 'port bar' or 'optional vga converter cable'
-monarual sound. No shit.

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[Anonymous Coward]

monarual sound. No shit.

from the internal speaker, wtf, are you retarded?

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[epukinsk]

I was drooling over the Sharp PC-UM10/30 ultra-lights a few months ago. That was before I met one in the flesh at Circuit City.

These machines are amazingly thin and amazingly light. I'm sure they are a joy to have in your lap. That is, as long as you don't have to type. The keyboard is disgusting. I'm a little spoiled because I'm used to my Thinkpad 600x, but my hands started to cramp up within minutes of typing on the Sharp. After typing a half a page of text, my fingers were crying for me to go back to my Thinkpad.

That, and the thing feels pretty flimsy (price you pay for 0.7" thickness). My love affair with the Actius line is over.

Erik

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[Anonymous Coward]

as an owner of this laptop, i can say that it has good performance, is very thin and light

but as i only run linux, the suspend and resume do not work yet (it uses acpi not apm)
(suspend and resume does not even work on this machine with 2.5.x series kernel), installation of linux on the sharp pc-um10

i am guessing that there is no such issue with the lindows machine

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[juuri]

I love the keyboard, even though the US version has the larger keys compared to the Japanese imports. Then again it is probably because I type with three, sometimes four, fingers on each hand (still damn fast though). I can see how if you type properly the keyboard would kill you.

Re:Cheapish, ultralight pc.

[epukinsk]

It's a combination of the resistance gradient as you depress and release the keys, the shape of the keys and the travel.

Whatever it was, it just wasn't fun to type on like the Thinkpads are.

Erik

Robertson is incapable

[presearch]

Nice ripoff of Apple's web site look and feel.
Seems like Robertson is incapable of doing anything
without leveraging off of somebody else's efforts.
Linux, W/Lindows, mp3.com. What an info-age parasite.

Re:Robertson is incapable

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhhh, and Mac OSX is not "leveraged off somebody else's efforts"? How are they any better?

Re:Robertson is incapable

[presearch]

For one, Apple bought NeXT where much of the work was
done. It's not like it's just a BSD port. Beyond that, probably
over 80% of what's delivered in OS X is original Apple work.

I can't figure out why "Open Source" advocates bitch when
companies comply with license agreements but still gripe
about ripping things off. In Lindows case, the original
content is probably the opposite of Apple, about 20%.

Plus they have their update service they charge money for
that is just a pure ripoff of freely available software.
They may comply with license agreements but to me -that-
seems sleazy.

Re:Robertson is incapable

[masq]

They're BOTH sleazy, no matter how much zealots of either camp whine. Apple has a looong history of screwing companies, developers, and customers over, and Lindows isn't off to any better of a start ripping off Apple's graphics and faking the comparison chart.

-----------
no zealot ever *thinks* he's a zealot, he just believes far too strongly in his favorite product or company - often to the point of utter stupidity.

Lack of Internal CD

[ackthpt]

The lack of an internal CD, on my Sony Vaio 505TX was a major source of angst. Consider hooking up something hanging off a cable, with an external powersupply, slightly wider (squared) than a CD and 5/8" or more thick and how to place/dangle it while using this on your lap. I'd never consider another laptop w/o internal CD. Now I'm sure you can find a nice little laptop somewhere with a CD, and comperable to this and slap Lindows or RH or whatever and you'd be happy as a clam.

Battery life?? Cdrom?

[euxneks]

I know that the cdrom is external, but what I want to know is what is the battery life? Where is the specs for the battery life? Are there any reviews yet? Has anybody even tried it yet?

Nice but...

[bobKali]

if only I could get it with a trackpoint instead of that gawd-awful touchpad.........

Pre-installed Linux

[BroncoInCalifornia]

As a business Lindows is doing a lot of things right.

They are getting their Linux pre-installed on PC's. This is a big deal. Most people would not or could not install an OS. Pre-installed Linux is the only way to penetrate the desktop market.

Lindows also getting sued by MSFT to get a lot of publicity.

Is Robertson made of the same stuff as Bill Gates?

I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBook.

[dmorin]

I love questions that are timed to my life. Just on Tuesday I was down the mall playing with a 12" iBook because I am in the market for an ultra light "developers" portable. And basically, I didnt like it. It's heavier than I expected. I don't like A mac geek friend tells me that it is limited to 640Meg ram for some reason. the touch pad (I prefer the little thumb joystick). And worst of all I hate this WindowsXP-like concept of "Hello I am a home user who only wants to do multimedia things." I sat there trying to find a terminal window and couldn't. I can edit my home movies on my PC, I dont need to do that on the fly. I just want a Unix-friendly developers box that will be networked wherever I go, basically -- wireless or other. With killer battery life.

Having said that, the fact is that I could go and see and touch an iBook, type a few things, move the mouse around, give it a test drive. I don't think I'll be able to do that with a Lindows notebook, will I? Will they be at Walmart?

Selective marketing

[JonathanF]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed that they used the specs for the 12" PowerBook in place of the iBook; how fair is a comparison like that... to the Lindows system (or the others, really)? The 12" PowerBook is probably one of the faster and most full-featured laptops in the class, so of course it's going to cost $1799.

The worst part is that it's evident that Lindows isn't just exaggerating the value of their system - they're blatantly trying to deceive people into thinking that they have the only affordable small-sized laptop in existence. One wonders if they think that the $999 iBook only exists in a parallel universe!

No matter how much the cost or weight might be appealing, I can only see this laptop as being a nightmare for anyone who isn't technically experienced. Imagine some middle-aged couple trying to get an Internet connection, for example, or to get their USB printer to work. They probably wouldn't get much help at all from any company outside of Lindows, and "go check out the Ars Technica Linux forum" (as another example) is not going to help when many support-dependent people aren't even savvy enough to recognize when they have something like Windows XP! No matter what you might think of Macs, they at least have some official support beyond their manufacturer.

Re:Selective marketing

[Dynedain]

And apple is trying to decieve people into thinking they have the only small-sized full-pwered laptop in existance. hmmmm....

Anyways...its clear that apple introduced the 12" powerbook because they're gonna kill off the iBook line...the only reason why the iBook is still around is to get rid of all those old G3 chips they still have in inventory...the high end iBook is verrrry similiar to the 12" powerbook

Re:Selective marketing

[drjzzz]

Technically, I probably rate a bit above (or below) "some middle-aged couple" and I agree that getting an internet connection could be a nighmare. A modem definately should have been included because installing and confinguring one to even get a dialtone can be very challenging.

Despite this, I think it looks great and if the battery lasts nearly as long as they claim it will be a big seller. It needs a catchy name! How about "Lapenguin"? (get it, lap+penguin, Ok, you try...)

Re:Selective marketing

[Anonymous Coward]

the high end iBook is verrrry similiar to the 12" powerbook

Not really. The 12" and the high-end iBook may share a similar form factor, but the 12" offers quite a bit more in that compact package -- like the G4, bluetooth, airport extreme, larger hard drive, etc. It's not an iBook. Numerous benchmarks and user reviews can attest to that.

That said, I'm sure some parts have been re-used between them, so you're probably not entirely wrong.

Re:Selective marketing

[GlassHeart]

its clear that apple introduced the 12" powerbook because they're gonna kill off the iBook line

I don't think that's clear at all. The market for iBooks ($999-$1,749) does not overlap the market for PowerBooks ($1,799-$3,299).

They're obviously going to kill the existing G3 iBooks at some point, but they may be replaced by a line of G4 "iBooks", or $999 laptops by another name.

Re:Selective marketing

[MyHair]

It needs a catchy name! How about "Lapenguin"? (get it, lap+penguin, Ok, you try...)

Penix?

Re:Selective marketing

[MyHair]

I can only see this laptop as being a nightmare for anyone who isn't technically experienced. Imagine some middle-aged couple trying to get an Internet connection, for example, or to get their USB printer to work.

I was thinking the other way around. Compared to OS X and Windows laptops, this is true, but compared to other Linux-on-laptop solutions this is probably one of the technically easier ones. No usegroup postings asking how to get XX hardware on your laptop to work under Linux.

Are there any other Linux distributions that configure towards a specific laptop design? Or just the shops that strip Widows and install Linux. I'm assuming the former has the potential for better support, but maybe I'm wrong.

Re:Selective marketing

[MalleusEBHC]

Apple will not kill off the iBook line. Just as they have a consumer line (iMac) and professional line (Powermac) for their desktops, they will keep consumer and professional lines for their laptops. The iBook is very attractive to people who want a nice mobile solution but don't have the money or the need for a Powerbook. The 12" Powerbook was introduce because the 15" can be a little big for travel at times. Don't get me wrong, the 15" is great as it can effectively double as a desktop replacement while maintaining a good amount of portability. However, I have one and every time I go somewhere with it I have to tell myself that it still fits my needs and I should not rush to the nearest Apple store and get the 12" Powerbook I drool over.

That's Like Comparing a Sherman Tank to an F-15

[shylock0]

A better comparison would be various models by sony, sold both here in the US and abroad. They weigh about 3-5 lbs, and like what I have dubbed the lBook have FireWire (huge plus for external CD-ROMs). They tend to have Intel P-III 800-1ghz processors, and they tend to cost $900-$1800

The subnotebook market doesn't get fast. It's all about travel weight and heat, two directly related factors that fast P4 and Celery notebooks tend to be bad at.

This notebook, regardless of OS, seems to be a phenomenal deal. I wonder if its too good to be true.

Other OSes?

[shylock0]

Anybody know if you can attach a CD-ROM or floppy to it somehow to boot from? I'm not really interested in installing Windows, but I'm not the biggest fan of the Lindows distro, and would rather replace it with either another flavor of Linux. How about rescuing drivers?

Re:Other OSes?

[squant0]

According to idot , you get a free dvd drive and free shipping with every notebook order. Thus I would assume because it isn't an option to add the optional dvd drive when configurating the system, that you would receive one with your order.
Or idot is BS and there is no optical drive for the Lindows Notebook.

Nehemiah-core C3 processors?

[bstadil]

Anyone know what C3 core the notebook is using.

There is the old Ezra and the new Nehemiah. The latter uses full speed FP (Ezra runs a half the processor speed = reason for being so slow on most benchmarks)

If it is upgradable this might be a pretty good deal after all. The CPU sells for $35+ or so.

More infor on Via C3 chip here

Re:Nehemiah-core C3 processors?

[DaChesserCat]

Agreed. Someone mentioned a page with benchmarks of an 800 MHz, but that was an Ezra-core. The new Nehemiah core uses DDR RAM (which helps TREMENDOUSLY with the video bandwidth; the CPU doesn't use all the bandwidth, so the video uses the rest of it).

Supposedly, the newer Nehemiah-core systems are capable of playing MPEG-2 and DivX full-rate, which the older systems simply couldn't do.

The thing that has me interested

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

Is how friendly the hardware is to alternative OSes?

It's got (a kind of) Linux on it, how well would BeOS, or OS/2 or some other *nix distro install on it?

Would the alt.OS drivers be easily available?

The last sublaptop I got was so damn windows only I couldn't even get BeOS or Mandrake to complete an install, much less find drivers for it.

I would find this good news simply for the alt.OS crowd.

Another, cheaper Dell laptop for $594

[guinsu]

That seems like sort of a rip, when you can get a much faster Dell (with a 14" screen) for about $594. Check out the details here

Re:Another, cheaper Dell laptop for $594

[Anonymous Coward]

oh, and does it weigh 3lbs, too?

So the iBook G4 is a reality at long last!!

[blakespot]

That's quite an expensive G4-based iBook they're comparing their little laptop to...

blakespot

My turn to make the obligatory reference

[O.M.A.C.]

Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of these!

Oh wait, you'd need a Beowulf Cluster of these to achieve anything approaching reasonable performance..

why is this a "sub" notebook?

[Splork]

It weighs 3 lbs. That's plenty much like a notebook to me. Anything weighing more than 3.5-4lbs should be considered a desktop replacement luggable.

Battery life?

[Anonymous Coward]

I cant find any info about battery life anywhere. Could someone point me in the right direction? Other than that, it looks sweet.

Re:I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBo

[Anonymous Coward]

To get to the terminal go to Applications and under utilities there is a program called "Terminal" that will bring up a terminal window. Drag that program to the dock and click on it(or just double click on the one in the utilities folder). Have Fun!

too high - $100 desktop and $500 laptop needed

[Anonymous Coward]

The $100 pc usuable by home/corporate lightweight users is the sweet spot.

Heck, the $150 xbox is already there, just needs a lightweight version of office pre-installed with IE, add a monitor, keyboard, and mouse and you have a corportate PC for $150 + $100 monitor/mouse/keyboard.

Using a network drive for all user files.

It will be cheaper to toss the old desktop and replace it with a 'remanufactured' one.

This is along the same lines as a low cpu powered machine with a boot from CD-rom drive version of linux.

I am sure corporate management would like to reduce their hardware cost per desktop 75% and their ongoing support per desktop down to $25 a year per user.

Battery?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from all the other issues, no way I'd be interested until I found out about battery life and power management.

Nice screen?

[Greedo]

Is it really a nice screen? The close-up photo is obviously Photoshoped (or Gimped, as the case may be).

I'm not trying to be negative, but this is something I'd want to see in person before forking over money.

Re:Nice screen?

[jonnythan]

I said nice-sized. 12.1" is much better than the 10.4" ones that come with many notebooks of similar weight. 1024x768 works just fine on 12.1".

Re:Nice screen?

[Greedo]

I know you said nice-sized. I wasn't trying to correct you, just wanted to comment that quality is important too.

And yeah, 1024x768 on a 12.1" is very nice (he says, patting his iBook).

Re:Can Lindows help me to

[Anonymous Coward]

Same difference -- they're all merely nearly Americans!

NO CDROM / DVD DRIVE!

[Anonymous Coward]

While I do think this is a great little machine, it lacks a CD/DVD drive. The specs say you can get an optional EXTERNAL drive (check the iDotwhatever site to before buying). On the other hand, if you just need a super light, long battery machine that won't burn your crotch, this seems to be just the ticket...

Starcraft

[nadadogg]

If this puppy will play starcraft under winex, and let me browse net and play with php/perl, I'd definitely consider it.

Re:Starcraft

[Anonymous Coward]

You can play Starcraft on a 486 DX4-100, so yes, I'd say it'll run Starcraft.

No CDROM, no floppy, better have a network

[dzerkel]

$799 is fine, but doesn't include either a CDROM or floppy. A USB CDROM is at least $100. And you would have to carry it around in addition to the laptop, adding the weight.

An all-in-one solution might make more sense, there are a lot of them out there.

Laugh....

[RichMeatyTaste]

You could get a Dell 1.6G Latitude for 594 today - 1.6Ghz Intel Mobile Celeron processor, 14.1" TFT, 256MB of DDR SDRAM, 20GB UltraATA/100 HD, 24x CD-Rom, 10/100 NIC, 56k V.90 Modem, LiOh battery, and Windows XP Home (yes I know.... but you can just dump XP Home and install whatever you want).

This is just an example... Dell runs a laptop similiar to this in spec every week for 650-700.

Re:Laugh....

[Garridan]

Ummm... I've seen a bunch of "you could just get a dell" posts like this... is somebody paying you, or are you a bot?

Me Wantee!!

[karlandtanya]

'Course it'll be easier to convince my wife to run slackware on her $150 notebook (decomissioned; bought from employer) than to part with $750 for a new one!

Easier being a relative term ;)

Re:Letter to the Observer-Terry Jones (Monty Pytho

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. Very Python.

so what should I buy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I have a California Access laptop with Celeron 1100, 128 MB RAM, 20 GB HDD, 14.1" TFT, Firewire, USB, LAN, Modem, PCMCIA, IRDA. I really don't like this one, it's way too hot (and too noisy -- 2 fans), when battery-powered it works under 2h. I want to buy something new, any ideas?

$800 is way too expensive

[newsdee]

Since you can get a free Linux for any PC, you have to consider the extra hardware benefit that you get with this laptop.

- For $200 more, you can buy a new entry-level P4 laptop or an iBook.

- For almost the same price you can build a Mini-ITX system running at 933 Mhz with a 15" flatscreen monitor. With this option, you can further reduce the price if you have some spare parts (Hard Drive, DDR Ram, USB/Firewire CD drive, etc).

Of course the second choice is not as "portable" (no working on bus/trains/planes), but if you're broke and need a solid PC, it's a good entry-level choice. :-) I just built one instead of buying a laptop and saved $400 by reusing old parts. And yes, it fits in my backpack :-)

Just bought a Compaq from CompUSA

[linuxguy]

I just bought a Compaq 2100US laptop from CompUSA a couple of days ago for my wife. She was fairly satisfied with it. Now I am trying to come up with all kinds of excuses to return it. Here is my list, please add if you can :

1. Its too big and heavy. 7lbs. Ouch.
2. It gets too hot when its running.
3. Dont want our money going to Microsoft.
4. XP looks ugly. ...

Re:Just bought a Compaq from CompUSA

[antiprime]

You bought a compaq.

*SUCKER*

Return it if you possibly can. I've had nothing but poor experiences with compaq computers.

Gotta Get a Dell

[t0ny]

Dell Inspiron 2650C 1.6Ghz Laptop with 14.1" TFT and 256MB RAM for $594.15 Shipped Free

Re:Gotta Get a Dell

[gcb]

and... the dell 2650 weighs over 7 pounds, vs 2.9 for this lindows toy.

Re:Gotta Get a Dell

[t0ny]

for the money you save on the Dell, go join a gym

Re:Gotta Get a Dell

[Anonymous Coward]

**ZING**

LOL!!!

Re:Gotta Get a Dell

[legojenn]

I'd like to find that. The best I can do on dell.ca is $1629.00 (roughly $950 US) which included shipping. Holy scamming non-US customers.

Re:Gotta Get a Dell

[t0ny]

http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/series_insp n_notebooks.htm?DGVCode=BF

choose the Inspiron 6250C

TWO MOUSE BUTTONS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone should smack the Lindows CEO in the head.

I WANT THREE MOUSE BUTTONS IN A LAPTOP. NOT ONE. NOT TWO, BUT THREE. NOT TWO AND A SCROLL BAR, NOT 3ButtonEmulation, NOT A DOUBLE TAPPABLE TOUCHPAD.

THREE MOUSE BUTTONS.

How could anyone claim to be making a laptop for linux and put 2 mouse buttons in it.

Idiot.

Re:TWO MOUSE BUTTONS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you please explain this to those of us that have never used Linux?

Re:TWO MOUSE BUTTONS!

[Anonymous Coward]

X (aka X11 or XFree86, the graphics server common to all Linux distros), X makes use of a middle mouse button. Under X, everything you highlight with the mouse gets copied to an invisible clipboard. To paste stuff you middleclick. It works between applications (mostly, there used to be difficulties with some apps.) No more keyboard futzing or looking for menus. Just click to paste. It's a godsend.

Unlike the original poster, I like scrolling mice, expecially for long documents or web browsing. I've been using an IBM optical mouse that has like a clickable scrollwheel. It's ergonomical, smooth, appropriately transparent. Lucky me. I never would have bought it online, though, because some scrollwheels don't click, and besides it's the kind of thing you should feel in your hand before you buy.

Re:TWO MOUSE BUTTONS!

[Anonymous Coward]

A user of X is used to having three buttons.

The first button selects stuff. You click a menu option, or a window title bar to raise it, or click and drag to select text. All with the first button.

The second button pastes what was selected with the first button.

The third button is app specific, in general. This leaves the first two buttons alone for selecting and pasting, and thus can be used for alternate menus (usually).

In a 2 button system, you can have 3ButtonEmulation. This means, mostly, that you can TRY to paste by hitting both buttons at the same time. Of course, sometimes you don't hit them together, and you get a random array of activity depending on what the first and third buttons do.

IBM, to my knowledge, is the only manufacturer to make a 3 button laptop. I can't tell you the number of times I've screwed something up because I didn't have the middle button.

So it is somewhat heresy to sell something with 2 buttons as a linux laptop. It really demonstrates that it is only hardware designed for windows with a new OS loaded. Anyone designing a laptop for linux would have a middle mouse button.

Or...

[Anonymous Coward]

You could save an extra couple hundred and get a ghz+ w/ a cdrw/dvd combo and other extras from Dell who has some pretty good deals.

If u're shopping for a new laptop right now keep an eye on here the deals change.

(No I don't work for Dell either.)

Re:Or...

[Anonymous Coward]

stop it with these comparisons: the lindows machine weighs less than 3 lbs. That is the only thing that makes it interesting or a bargain...

You've gotta be kidding me...

[maynard]

You can't run Linux apps on an iBook.

$ make clean; make; make install

Or for that matter, just install fink.

I've been running Linux and BSD on my home machines since '94. Finally got sick of maintaining those installs instead of doing work with the computer (and happen to need MS Office to exchange xls spreadsheets with my CPA)... what did I buy? I Macintosh. Why? Because OS X has all the 'NIX software I could possibly want, very easy system management (meaning I'm not wasting my time dicking around with the computer), and the readability of the fonts are simply better than anything out there. Claiming there's no "linux" software, when just about everything includes source and will compile properly under OS X, really misses the point. Also, the battery life of a powerbook is excellent. 5 hours/charge for the 15", 4.5 hours/charge for the 17". I absolutely love this computer. Apple finally did it right. Of course, I used to love the NeXT Station on my desk many years back, so call me biased. --M

Re:You've gotta be kidding me...

[kesuki]

I'd like to correct you on one thing.
He said 'Linux' apps.
Having had to mess around with screwed up ./configure scripts (on FreeBSD) 'Linux' apps won't compile unmodified, because he/she doesn't realize what thier doing, or how to make the configure script platform independant.
there are also the case of programs that rely on modification to the linux kernel to even run. Some CD burning software falls under this category.
Now your point about compiling unix software still applies, and in fact the vast majority of what people think of as 'linux' software is actually unix software, and should compile with no modification on any unix platform.

Re:You've gotta be kidding me...

[pestilence4hr]

Finally got sick of maintaining those installs instead of doing work with the computer (and happen to need MS Office to exchange xls spreadsheets with my CPA)

Install debian to relieve your maintainance woes.

Install wine to relieve your MS Office woes.

Problem solved!

doesnt seem free to me

[t0ny]

at $800 for a slow, under-powered machine, it doesnt seem free to me. You can get a Dell 1.6Ghz Laptop with 256MB RAM for $600, shipped free.

The only thing is, you have to pay Micro$oft tax on the less expensive, more powerful computer. Oh, the pain! You get a better computer for less!

So it looks like now Linux is joining Apple in making weak, overpriced machines. Now Linus should focus on getting a hardware platorm to monopolize.

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[Ponty]

Linux knocked over my mailbox yesterday. Then it went out and sold my cousin an underpowered machine. Damned Linux! I wish it wouldn't go and do things that a kernel isn't supposed to be able to do.

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[t0ny]

My cat's breath smells like cat food

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[remember_beos]

i just went to Dell's website... the CHEAPEST advertised laptop "starts at $699 after a $150 rebate( Inspiron 2650C ). I went through ALL of the options and picked the lowest, cheapest and bottom of every category (except RAM which i kept at 256MB for comparison). Somehow I end up at $899 minus a rebate of $150 and I have $649.

Ahh...cheaper and the faster 1.6GHz Celeron you were talking about... but at 7.25lbs there is a somewhat weighter problem here that you must have overlooked....(compared to 2.9lbs from LindowsOS)

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[remember_beos]

sorry - bad math in my prior post. Read $899 minus $150 equals $749. It's actually NOT cheaper...try calling 1-800-DELLBLOWS and ask the operator why the 'strating price' cannot be reached.

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[ceejayoz]

$749. It's actually NOT cheaper

Please explain how a $749 Dell laptop is "NOT cheaper" than a $799 Lindows laptop?

Not to mention that the Dell laptop will be more powerful, has a $200 OS included, AND you get phenomenal tech support.

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[ceejayoz]

ask the operator why the 'strating price' cannot be reached.

Sorry to reply twice, but the way you get the starting price is to click the "Recommended systems" link instead of the "Customize it" button. That'll bring you to this $656 system ($150 rebate).

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[Anonymous Coward]

Well then, stop feeding it.

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[Anonymous Coward]

New user, don't know where else to ask this. I would like to download a browser (for example internet explorer or netscape) onto a Zip disk or cd-rom and then carry that disk when I travel. I could then go into any internet cafe and download my emails without lugging a computer or even a cell phone or PDA. Without attacking me for wanting to do something stupid, can anyone actually offer some way to do this?

Alternately, is there a web-based way to download web mail to disk? I have a yahoo account but my email inbox fills frequently, and I don't know if there any way to batch-download all the emails to a floppy or Zip disk.

Generally I don't want to carry around my laptop since I don't want to risk it getting stolen, and downloading browsers seem always to go right for the main hard drive -- I don't know how to intall an ENTIRE browser onto a disk other than the hard drive. I would like to carry around only what I need. If I can carry around just a disk with one email-address's worth of email that would be ideal. I could then stop in anywhere that has an internet connection and download my emails.

Of course, it would be great if it were free.

Re:doesnt seem free to me

[Ponty]

Well played, my good man.

Hey Lindows: Do you mean PowerBook?

[thunker]

Lindows comparison chart actually compares to the new 12" PowerBook not an iBook.

Not much of a deal

[walterbyrd]

CompUSA, CircuitCity, and Dell, are all offering 1.6ghz systems for $699 after rebate. And these system include XP home edition.

Just another X-Book?

[Mnemennth]

At first, upon looking at this unit, I said - "Oh, its just a downsized X-Book... but after looking into it - more details can be seen here -

http://idot.com/TheStore/Desktop/787Spec.asp?Pro du ct.id=787&Cate.id=2

I see it's quite a bit worse. Unlike the X-Book, they do include a battery, so it is REALLY a notebook computer, and the list of features is actually not too bad, until you notice that the CDRW/DVD drive that is built into an X-Book for around $700-$800 is not only external, but optional as well. Further investigation into the C3 processor they "compare" to other laptops revealed why they made sure the DVD drive was not included. See these reviews at Tom's Hardware -

http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20020605/index .h tml

With benchmarks showing actual computing power somewhere in the neighborhood of a Celeron 500 or less, it probably lacks the power to play a DVD worth a damn, and I'd guess that's why they don't include the drive - Joe Numbnutz buys this $800 tinkertoy, pops in his favorite WWF DVD, and it plays like crap - they'll be getting them back as fast as they can ship them out. However, at 12W total dissipation, this VIA C3 should be fairly stingy with battery power, and should provide Joe with plenty of power for surfing his favorite porn sites. The built-in CF socket is a nice touch, though I'd rather have a Type 3 PCMCIA slot, and I for one am not willing to trade my DVD Drive for a battery.

Overall, the major offense is the marketing of a (guesses) $4 933 MHZ VIA C3 processor as if it were in any way comparable to the processors in those real notebooks. Essentially, its an Internet Appliance with a battery - and at $800, Joe is definitely getting hosed.

My two bits worth,

Mnem
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - PT Barnum

actually...

[xo0bob0ox]

Usually, every once and awhile apple post refurb ibooks on their site...right now you can get a g3 ibook for 799 which hardware wize would beat that lindows and os wise is proabably better than lindows...I don't know, I havent used it.

Better comparison

[Bobartig]

Lindows MobilePC - Apple iBook

Price: $800 / $1000

Processor: 933Mhz C3 / 700Mhz G3

Memory: 256MB PC133 / 128MB PC100
(Max Mem, 768MB / 640MB)

HDD: 20GB / 20GB
(Max HD 40GB / 40GB)

Weight: 2.9 lbs / 4.9 lbs

Size: 0.91"x10.43"x8.66" / 1.35"x11.2"x9.06"

Optical Drive: external / internal CD-ROM

USB: 2xUSB 2.0 / 2xUSB 1.1

Firewire: 1 / 1

Graphics: Savage4 16MB shared/ Radeon 7500 16MB

Screen: both 12.1 TFT 1024x768 res

External Video: not specified / VGA output with optional composite

LAN: both 100BT

Modem: optional / 56k v.92

PCMCIA: yes / no

Integrated Wireless: no / yes (optional)

OS: Lindows 3.0 / MacOSX 10.2

Software: D'load free apps via Click-and-Run / Bundled AppleWorks 6, Quicken 2003, FAXstf, iApps, Browsers

Warranty: 2 years / 1 year (3 year optional)

I'd love to have a > 3 lb. tiny subnote for browsing and veggin' on the couch... but for a real productivity machine, the iBooks still wins out for me. Still, wouldn't mind playing around with one!

Re:Better comparison

[Kevbo]

Great comparison, but the stats make the Lindows machine look more powerful than the iBook. Care to explain why you would use the iBook for your productivity machine?

Then again, I need a much less powerful machine to be productive. I find the more powerful the machine, the more I want to see how the latest games perform, maybe that's your point.

Re:Better comparison

[Anonymous Freak]

I'd love to have a > 3 lb. tiny subnote for browsing and veggin' on the couch... but for a real productivity machine, the iBooks still wins out for me. Still, wouldn't mind playing around with one!

Try looking in to the Sony PictureBooks, or the ultra-tiny Sony U-series, Fujitsu P-series, Toshiba Libretto, or many others.

I've been very happy with my PictureBook C1X (the original, with a Pentium MMX 266Mhz processor, before the Crusoe even existed) for years. I'm only now considering replacing it. And then, I'm only considering the Fujitsu P-2000, because it's almost the same size, and it has a bulit-in Combo DVD/CD-RW drive. (The one flaw with the picturebook: No built-in optical drive, and only one PC Card slot, so I could have optical OR network, but not both.)

Re:Better comparison

[sludg-o]

I'd love to have a > 3 lb. tiny subnote for browsing and veggin' on the couch

I bet you'd love more than 3 pounds on you lap while taking care of business on the couch. Hell, I'd enjoy the same.

Re:Better comparison

[Bobartig]

Well, I don't really believe that the 933Mhz C3 is going to show up the 700Mhz G3. But besides that, I didn't really explain myself well.

My preference stems from the fact that I'm a long time mac user and "productivity" for me means office applications ("Office" compatibility), Adobe suite, DTP, etc. I can attach all sorts of devices and make them work, and work around grahics, video, sound, etc.

In linux, I can get my distro installed, get a few apps, [barely] configure my desktop, and get wireless browsing and email up and working. I've never gotten beyond that since I always revert back to mac after I can't get some firewire device to work, or whatever.

It really boils down to me not being good at the things linux is good for (development, servers, being an ultrageek), and needing the things linux is traditionally weak in (Office suite, multimedia, userfriendly). For the extra $200, I can do a lot more of the things I do than with the Lindows eBook. But like I said, I'd like something lighter than my [comparatively] large 5.4 lb. TiBook for relaxing with on the couch (in the ideal fantasy world, where I can get another laptop just because its lighter than mine!).

bleh

[Anonymous Coward]

this looked good until i went to Dell's website and saw a faster better equipped laptop for less... with a real version of Windows installed.

Re:bleh

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't really understand that the Lindows machine is a SUB-notebook, as in "size above performance", do you?

Competition

[Jerph]

Another true competitor (not listed in the Lindows chart, probably because of obscurity) is the one I own - the Sotec 3120x. It has very similar stats, notable exceptions being a 1.2 GHz Celeron and a CD-RW/DVD combo drive. This increases the weight to 4 pounds, but you can't ignore the added utility. And yes, it's under a grand - $900 on Walmart.com. I got it for $820 after rebates a few months back. Those looking for a notebook of this size should check this one out (if you don't mind paying the Microsoft tax and buying from Wally World). I've been quite happy with it.

hmm

[simontek2]

I want it for one reason, i can put slack on it. this p166 laptop is nice, but, i could use the performance boost.

Lindows Retails for 130$???

[nurb432]

What the hell are these people trying to pull? The cant be serious:

"Only $129 for the OS and hundreds of software titles for home, business, and education
ONE year membership of Click-N-Run Warehouse
StarOffice and other top programs are included at no extra charge
Family licensing allows you to use on multiple computers vs. old way of one license per machine "

Re:negative people

[Anonymous Coward]

you obviously haven't been reading /. recently. we only promote apple products now. we all upgraded to mac os x and don't care about freedom and all that crap. so be happy if you see a linux zealot, they're a dying breed here.

STEVE JOBS FOR PRESIDENT!!!

missing the point

[Anonymous Coward]

of course this machine isn't perfect for any slashdotters, since we all install our favorite distros anyway and run unusual applications. but think of the elderly: this would be a perfect present for my grandparents who wouldn't install anything new and would only use a web browser and word processor. it's not like they'd know the difference between this and a p4 with maxxed out RAM, and since it's new it beats finding a refurb or used machine and doing damage control. quit complaining.

Re:missing the point

[Anonymous Coward]

Lindows is probably as buggy and unstable as Microsoft. Or possible even worse. I know RedHat is pretty unstable and terrible (even though it's the most popular Linux distro). I suspect people mainly care about running the same OS as thier friends rather than having things ultra-stable, ultra-cheap or ultra-whatever.

My grandma (if she were to buy a laptop). Would probably buy a $2000 job, because that's what the guy at Best Buy is going to talk her into. She would not be comfortable spending $800 on something that is "supposed to" cost $2000.

Re:missing the point

[Mnemennth]

Ummm... for the same money, Grandma and Grandpa can have an X-Book with a DVD-ROM, a real processor, and a 14" screen they can actually see. Of course they would be giving up the battery power, but as you suggest, they're unlikely to get involved in wireless networking, so would probably be tied to a wire anyhow. Mnem *Still really isn't impressed with either*

Xvid movies

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it fast enough for playng Xvid movies?
A Sony picturebook with a 727MHZ TM CPU it is, but I dont know anything about VIA CPUS

Cheaper at Dell small business.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell small business has the same notebook/price with 256MB. You can use the coupon code 95895C34C7C6 to get an extra 15% off.

Watch www.techbargains.com if you want cheaper equipment, not slashdot...

Re:Cheaper at Dell small business.

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer devsdeals.com over techbargins

Re:I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBo

[foo12]

You really should have talked to somone in the store --- Apple probably doesn't keep dev tools installed on floor models, but I'm sure someone at the Genius bar would have been willing to install it quick.

why did they add in the pda comparison

[towaz]

Maybe its just me but what was the point of compairing a laptop to a pda. Laptops are good for a lot of things but pda's also have advantages.

just seems a dumb comparison

C3 vs. Crusoe?

[steveha]

If you benchmark a 933 MHz Crusoe chip laptop (such as a Fujitsu Lifebook P2120) versus a 933 MHz C3 chip, which would win?

Both are low-power. The Crusoe is even-lower-power than the C3. I know raw CPU power isn't the reason why a person buys a laptop, but I'm still curious.

You will pay more for the Lifebook, but it also has better 3D hardware (Mobility Radeon vs. Savage). That might make a big difference if you want to play Counter-strike or something, if the CPUs are at all similar in computing power.

I used a K6-III/450 for years, and I suspect that either the C3 or the Crusoe will be just fine for web surfing and such.

steveha

Re:C3 vs. Crusoe?

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a C3 800 and it will run circles around a Crusoe of the same MHz. Crusoe is basically a failure. C3 is the world's smallest x86 core, it's almost as low power as a crusoe (we're talking a small milliwatt difference here). And VIA C3 gets you more MIPS per Watt than any other x86. (about 50% more power per MIPS than a StrongARM though). Think of a VIA C3 as a 486 on steroids (but capable of using the full instruction set). The FPU on the C3 is pretty wimpy (crusoe's complete lack of a true FPU makes it extremely wimpy). The FPU is going to be half-speed(or worse) of your typical celeron/p-iii.

If you are interested in a C3, but don't want this laptop get one of the VIA EPIA-800 motherboards for about $100. (Or one of the newer EPIAs for more money)

Re:Yet for $699... no $594 with coupon

[seniorcoder]

Using coupon 95895C34C7C6 (expires 2/26) at Dell Business can get you an Inspiron 2650C (celeron 1.6, 256MB memory, 20GB HDD) for $594 with free shipping. Then wipe out XP Home and sell the license to someone else (if that's legal, which it probably isn't knowing Mirco$fot), finally load a copy of Linux. Score!

This is the Sotec e-note

[Anonymous Coward]

This laptop looks very similar to a striped down sotec e-note sold in Japan.

Check it out

the press photos on Lindows site even have the e-note logo on the lid.

Re:This is the Sotec e-note

[Anonymous Coward]

that is a link to a 7-pound, 3-spindle machine...

Re:I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBo

[Anonymous Coward]

What a helpful anonymous coward! You sound like a sales drone! Have fun!

Hope you got that sale, little Steve!

Lindows = Apple?

[BladeMelbourne]

Has anyone noticed that the Lindows site looks very similar to the Apple web site?

And the green running man in a circle looks similar to the Ximian (monkey?) logo.

Lindows should get an "original" graphic designer. I think they are good for the Linux movement though.

Can someone suggest a Red Hat or Debian laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder what everyone would suggest as far as laptop configs that would run a real Linux system.

Re:iBooks *can* and *do* run Linux

[__aaaaxm1522]

You can't run Linux apps on an iBook?

Ummm... Someone should tell these guys:

http://www.linuxppc.org

and these guys ...

http://www.yellowdoglinux.com

and these guys ...

http://fink.sourceforge.net

and these guys ...

http://www.debian.org

and these guys ...

http://www.gentoo.org

and these guys ...

http://www.linux-mandrake.com

Each of them either produces a PowerPC-based Linux distribution that runs on iBooks (as well as iMacs, Powerbooks and other PowerPC systems), or in the case of fink, ports common Linux apps to the OS X platform.

Re:I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBo

[dmorin]

Actually what turned me off is I sat there for a little while with no help, then a woman and her son came in and looked at the one next to me, and somebody came over and said "Can I help you?" to her. If he had recognized me as a geek and was just giving me space to play, then I would have appreciated at least some eye contact or a "How's it goin?" when I came into the store so I knew that he wasn't just ignoring me.

umm... battery?

[Anonymous Coward]

doesn't seem to mention one. seen quite
a few notebooks that don't have em around,
they look like a deal, pretty crappy if
you ask me.

Playing with one right now.

[markw365]

I'm sitting here looking at one, and it's a slick little machine. No floppy or cd, but it _WILL_ netboot so installing Debian won't be that hard. It has an RTL 8139 chipset, so hopefully JHRIV compiled that into the kernel image so we don't have to do a custom tftp kernel to install debian on the thing. Slick little notebook however. :)

Re:Playing with one right now.

[Anonymous Coward]

What is battery life like???

couldn't find the terminal

[Anonymous Coward]

you sure you aren't retarded? that
might be the problem.

Kinda Cheap

[shepd]

...Considering it should have about 10x the battery life of the average notebook running at just under 1 Ghz that doesn't use a C3.

A C3 933 isn't anyware near as slow as that, anyways. If it were, the 666 C3 I used should be about the speed of a PIII 266. It's nowhere near that crappy (it could play DVDs while I surfed the net -- no PIII 266 could ever do that [of course, that would be if they existed]), and that's amazing considering it's a PC Chips board.

Plus it's silent. Tell me what speed a P4 runs at when it's silent (hint: It's less than 1/2 of it's normal speed, which is already 10% - 20% slower than the equivalent PIII in Mhz)?

There's a lot to like about the C3 processor. It's just not for gaming/scientific number crunching. But how many subnotebooks do you know that are replacing gaming rigs or Crays?

Should buy from gearzoo.com(php) not idot.com(asp)

[Anonymous Coward]

Title says it all. Slashdot posted this and undoubtly is sending many buyers to idot.com ironically supporting a Microsoft based shop over a free software based one.

Paying more attention to this sort of thing is growing more and more important as Microsoft is really trying to push web development towards a IE only world. If we can't browse a significant number of sites without IE, the free software movement will be in serious trouble.

--Jeff
(who just ordered one)

Re:debian is satan? I don't think so....

[Anonymous Coward]

Lindows is debian people. If you haven't used it then you don't know what you are talking about. I must admit I thought it was crap before I saw it on a machine. A biochemist friend got one of the walmart machines to do DNA cruching. I went over there to install a "real" version of linux/gnu on it and low and behold it was a very recent install of debian. I swear they must have installed it only a few days earlier; letting apt get the packages directly from a debian mirror. I did apt-get update&upgrade and only three new packages. It was the most current and up to date version of any operating system I'd ever seen shipped on a machine straight from the factory. I was very supprised. It really kicked ass.

I was annoyed by some of the lindows specific things they added, but that's what dpkg --purge is for. I have to say Lindows added thier changes the correct way(as debian packages.) You can just remove thier packages and run regular apt-get to keep your system current. You do not have to subscribe to thier stuff.

Re:iBooks *can* and *do* run Linux-Not Really!

[Gilmoure]

But these aren't the 'true' X86 Linux, as conceived by bored, overachieving Scandanavians (a moose once bit my sister. No, really!). These versions of Linux are tainted by being compiled for another type of processor (what floats on water? Churches!). Unless you run Linux on a 486, with 5.25" drives, you are a loser (Kneeh!). Forget the gourd. Go like our lord, with one sandal!

Ok, now will you stop complaining?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you have your choice of a Lindows laptop
or a $1k ibook. Six months and all hardware wishes come true ... :-)

http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/09/26/153 62 27&mode=thread&tid=32

Re:I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBo

[yomegaman]

Geez, simple answers to questions are now astroturfing? Or are you really just jealous of people who have jobs and can afford decent computers?

The $799 laptop is a sub-note

[Anonymous Coward]

How much is Dell's cheapest 3 pound machine?

But what's really important . . .

[ulfhednar]

What the heck is a VIA C3?
Will Jaguar load on this puppy?

Where?

[tweakt]

Care to tell us where one can find this sweet deal?
(Google wasn't much help)

Re:Where?

[evilviper]

Froogle is your friend... (no, not Google)

Crusoe does have an FPU

[phr2]

Although it's not a real fast one. But it definitely is present.

Please tell more about this

[phr2]

It sounds like a good alternative to the Fujitsu Lifebook P2000 which costs a lot more.

What kind of cooling does the Sotec use? Does it run hot? Does it have any kind of fan?

How is the keyboard? What is the screen resolution? What kind of pointing device does it have?

If you have a URL with specs, pictures, etc. that would be great. Thanks.

Re:Please tell more about this

[evilviper]

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Sotec+3120X

It does have a small fan, but it's not actively in use 90% of the time. The CPU runs quite cool. In fact, the only time the system even gets ``warm", is when I play a fairly long DVD. Spinning a disc quickly for 2+ hours creates some heat, although the system certainly isn't "hot", even then.

So, it's a bit of a lap warmer, but never hot enough that it might be uncomfortable.

Via C3 processor benchmarks..

[magwm]

do not look so well... not even compared to a celeron! this is the link http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2002q1/via-c3/i ndex.x?pg=1

Re:negative people

[_RiZ_]

hahaha. its true. its strange how recently many folks here at the job (mostly solaris and linux shop) are starting to get mac's. damn fruit.

Re:I don't want an iBook....but I can touch an iBo

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a decent computer. And YES, he is astroturfing.

Yeah, that was me

[metamatic]

I'm actually kinda tempted by the Lindows machine, but I'd need to see one first to judge the screen quality and build quality, or at least read a few reviews.

Failing that, I'm gonna get an iBook. Nobody managed to come up with a source for a new Windows-less notebook that was smaller and lighter than an iBook, let alone faster or cheaper or with equal battery life.

Sad, but I guess PCs just aren't as competitive as anti-Mac folks claim.

One benefit to a Lindows notebook is at least knowing that Lindows works on it. I've spent quite some time trying to get RedHat Linux sound working on a ThinkPad 600E, with no luck so far. (KNOPPIX sound drivers don't work for it either, I tried that on the off chance... It was otherwise impressive, though, and I'm gonna send a copy of the CD to my PC-using parents who have had their Windoze system blown away several times by viruses.)

PowerBook Now Listed in Chart

[druske]

I see this morning that Lindows has fixed their mistake, sort of... their comparison chart now lists Apple's PowerBook, instead of an iBook. Of course, a better comparison would still be to the low-end iBook, which prices out to US$1,049 with 256M RAM.

People DO want users and passwords

[metamatic]

First, the running-as-root idea was smart. The slashdot masses need to understand that people do NOT want to fuck with passwords, usernames, and that shit on their PC.

Yes they do. They just don't know it.

Look at the number of people who use Windows, who post queries like "How can my husband and I receive e-mail in separate mailboxes?", "How can I stop my kids uninstalling my business aps to play a game", "How can I have my own set of bookmarks separate from the rest of my family". Look at the popularity of webmail amongst people who only ever use the one computer, simply because they think it's the only way to have their own private mailbox. Look at how products like Netscape implement their own bogus "Profiles" feature to simulate usernames.

I've had people tell me they don't want login names and passwords. When I tell them what login names and passwords are for, and what they let them do, they realize they're actually *easier* than implementing all the kludges to do the same stuff without login. The problem is, people think login/password is a tool for keeping them out of the computer, like in the movies.

Valid but minor point

[maynard]

But still, there are vast numbers of traditional 'NIX programs which compile properly under OS X. And plenty of pre-compiled packages easily installed with fink, too. Sure, one can claim that packages which rely on Linux kernel hooks won't run properly, but so what. Your example of CD burning software doesn't make any sense, because who in their right mind would want to install X CD-Roast (or whatever) when OS X ships with iTunes? Same for DVD burning tools. Find me one tool under Linux for which I can't find something comparable under OS X (I'll answer my own question: a native emacs port :) ). Still, you are factually correct. Thanks for the reply.

Best,
--Maynard

It isn't GNU anything. It RED HAT or whatever.

[nlinecomputers]

Linux is the kernel. GNU is a few tools that only in part make a linux box run. If your really going call it by a proper name then call it by it's distro name.

Running Redhat is not the same as running debian or gentoo or LindowsOS. They share some common tools but what makes each unique really comes at the distro level. If there really needs to be a correction on the name then call it by the neame of the distro. I run Red Hat or Mandrake.

Cyrix

[kardar]

I had a computer with a Cyrix once; it was really slow. The Cyrix processors are cheap, but AMD is really a much better processor and they are relatively inexpensive as processors go.

I would go with an AMD instead; and Lindows is also much more expensive - some say a ripoff - than something like Debian or FreeBSD.

And how come the Lindows machines are being presented as low-priced options to Windows? I think it makes absolutely no sense to compare Linux to a "lesser" Windows. It's definitely at least the other way around and then some.

I think it gives Linux a bad reputation, this.

DELL IS CHEAPER AND FASTER

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get a better laptop from Dell cheaper and it has a faster cpu.

so why is this even news?

Last Post!

[alpg]

"Obviously, a major malfunction has occurred."
-- Steve Nesbitt, voice of Mission Control, January 28,
1986, as the shuttle Challenger exploded within view
of the grandstands.

- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...