Slashdot Mirror
Creatine Found to Boost Brainpower
Eric Ass Raymond writes "According to this BBC article, researchers from the University of Sydney and Macquarie University in Australia have found that the dietary supplement creatine - a natural compound found in muscle tissue - can improve not only your athletic performance, but also your intelligence and memory. One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour."
One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour
...yeah...like this affects the slashdot crowd much...
...dope testing for SAT's and other qualifying exams was announced today.
"One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour"
In other words it perfect replicates geeks... cept for many the muscle part.
Thanks to creatine, not only is his body huge and muscular, he apparently has to be brilliant and have a good memory as well!
And maybe the "unpleasant body odour" will help him with his "clean out Sacremento" campaign...
MORTAR COMBAT!
Just what we need, a bunch of stinky smart people!
Real geeks don't shower anyway.
Bring it on!
... based on both outcomes, unfortunately for those near me.
...the amount of jokes about smartness, body odour and slashdotters will soon be verging on the infinite.
We all know that it's Odor though..... right?
So I can intelligent and smell or stupid and smell nice. Ho hum life is full of hard decisions. Now what for lunch? :)
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
Unpleasant body odor goes with the territory.
I can't imagine how dumb the muscle headed pea brains, I see at the gym every day, were before they started taking this stuff!
The Good Life
Must...resist...smelly...nerd...joke...
Can't.
And that would be different from your sweaty unbathed basement-dwelling sysadmin how?
"Improve [...] your intelligence and memory. One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour."
This is how the slashdot geeks have been for ages!
Trollem mirabilem hanc subnotationis exigiutas non caperet
Like that ever mattered to most slashdotters anyway...
Feel that power? That's mah MOUSING FINGER
They're called 'geeks'. :P
j/k. I used creatine for a while, and I never experience any unusual b/o. Of course I bathe daily and use deodorant, excercise, play hockey...
Perhaps it only happens if you're sedentary?
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Some TV show or something did a poll catering to women. They asked them, "If there were a pill that made your ass bigger, but made you way smarter, would you take it?" 90% of the women said they wouldn't take it. Of course, that might not apply here, as us men have no shame.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Just because you stink, it doesn't mean you're clever!
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
this will result in most geeks attributing their body odor to superior intellegence.
Next, they'll attribute not washing an even greater intelligence.
Then a smelly crotch will be sign of superior sex potential.
Finally, a whole bunch of stinking geeks will be a beawolf cluster of superbrains...
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
The same is said of Microsoft products... except for that parts that aren't about stinking.
http://cassettefetish.com
Man, I think they tested some of the techies where I used to work. Oh wait -- they weren't that smart.
Now all the problems of human race are solved forever. I dislike this kind of marketing crap.
Oh great...let's perpetuate the myth that geeks smell bad. You bastards!
It would be fun to be a buff geek though. "You talkin' to me?"
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
in an effort to increase the intensity of my workouts i bought a tin of protien/creatine "grape koolaid" mix.
not only does it make your sweat stink of sulphur... the drink also tastes like rotten eggs and i would normally have to chase it back with my nose plugged and with a couple glasses of water to kill the taste in my mouth.
sure it helped my reps... but the odour kind of defeats the purpose when you use it to pick up the ladies.
First discovered on the Simpsons and named "poindextrose"
Mouse powered Chips, Open source Processors and Lego
Buy stock in GNC now...
I think we found a new market for them.
-n-
I saw an article the other day that body odor makes women relax... Finally, a chance...
Vegetarians were used for the tests, mainly because meat in the diet is in itself a source of creatine, and it would be difficult to gauge exactly how much an individual had consumed.
Does anyone have any evidence proving this assertion? I would also like to know what the effects are, ie. If I eat a burger at lunch will I be more productive and smarter after lunch? Also any ideas about the creatine found in different types of meat? (fish, pork, etc) I have read many places that fish is good brain food, maybe this is why.
--- I'll have a Bloody Mary, a Steak Sandwich and a uh Steak Sandwich.
Instead of remembering the letters S-C-I-E-N-C-E, I can now take come creatine and remember the letters B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. I'd like to see some of their numbers first before jump to a conclusion that creatine makes you smarter... Even if it were true, remember 1.5 items more than the next guy isn't going to change your life. I wonder if all meat eaters are smarter than their vegetarian counterparts? I should stock up on McD's $1 Double Cheeseburgers and say it's so I can become smarter.
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
I used to take Creatine back in a previous career (blue collar), when I was actually trying to get more muscular. I believed the hype that it would help you lift more weight, and gain more muscle in the process. Instead, I got so fatigued and sick from it that I quit, and it took over a month to recover.
Now I have an easy desk job in computers...
This is just another in the long series of sensationalist stories about studies that show *** increases ***, or doing X makes you better at Y.
What annoys me about these stories is that they are always based on small (eg 45) groups and they basically amount to pseudoscience and they give a bad view of the scientific community in general.
For example, how many times have you read stories about either possible cures or causes of cancer? Journalists should stop coming out with this crap and cover real scientific stories.
Will this be the end of the dumb jock? At least we'll still be able to make fun of their B.O.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Gee, I wonder if they could make a gas form and pump it through our company's vent system?! It might actually bring our collective IQ up to average! Dang it! ;)
You grow hair like a chia pet on it too. It grows much quicker than normally.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Dr Rae said: "Creatine supplementation may be of use to those requiring boosted mental performance in the short term - for example university students."
I worked my ass off in University, and never took any sort of miracle Ginseng anything. I work my ass off to keep from getting the office chair ass, too. I do not take anything like this. What happened to hard work? Why does everybody need the "magic pill?" Drugs are for the sick and injured, not the lazy and impatient.
end rant
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
Sshhh... All the coders are at work...
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Obviously RMS has been participating in their experimental study program for many years.
It seems the athletic thing didn't work too well for him though.
Am I a hipster-doofus?
...I don't have bitch tits because I'm a lazy geek, I have them because I'm chowing down creatine in an effort to be a BETTER geek! Yeah...that's the ticket...
Now if only I could use the force to persuade others into believing that bullshit excuse. =P
I'm stupid and I also smell bad.
That doesn't seem fair.
--
P.S. I'm also ugly.
Karma: Bad due to google bombing - Robert Watkins woz 'ere.
A much cheaper way to boost your brain power is to take Niacin (not Niacinamide). Many people notice that their mental clarity is remarkably better when they have had 500 milligrams of Niacin.
Take Niacin only after meals to avoid skin flushing (redness and tingling which lasts about 15 minutes), and only with an equal quantity of Vitamin C.
There are flush-free Niacin compounds and timed-release versions on the market of varying quality in their ability to prevent flushing.
Niacin is a vitamin, so it is completely safe.
Just what we need. Another fairly simple study looking at a supplement that has not been tested adequately. Anyone remember the problems folks had when they were rushing out to purchase tryptophan? What about all the people dropping melatonin like there is no tomorrow? (most melatonin is derived from bovine pineal glands.....ever hear of spongeoform encephalitis?)
Look, the food supplements industry is not well regulated and thus the ingredients or amounts of active compounds in each of these supplements is not always known.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
nt
Gives a new weight to me saying that being a vegetarian is dumb.
Yesterday was the time to do it right. Are we having a REVOLUTION yet?
I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.
... because I keep forgetting to go to the gym.
Hrrm, Mountain Dew must be loaded with the stuff, it certainly makes me smarter and stro...err wait.
TODO: Something witty here...
... women have an obsession with the size of their rear-ends which borders on the paranoid delusional. They're all under the impression that wide hips and a generous backside are somehow UNattractive, which fascinates me since these things are caused by the same feminization hormones that brought us such lovely things as breasts and the female leg shape.
I can't understand how they all fell under this "MUST HAVE TINY ASS" spell. Is it just massive amounts of bizarre social conditioning? Do the vast majority of women suffer from some kind of targeted body dysmorphic disorder? What?
+++ATH0
I'll leave the obvious grab for the "+5 Funny" to others... :)
Unfortunately, the claims here are rather unspecific and within the range of statistical noise where specific.
Given this, I'm betting that this will end up in the ambiguous zone along with, say, Chitosan, where some studies indicate it's useful, and others indicate it's useless, along with the smell (N.P.I.) of bias surrounding who's performing and quoting a given study.
If you can live with those caveats, there are other non-pharmaceutical substances that arguably have a larger positive effect than this stuff on cognition; DHEA and St. John's Wort come to mind.
~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
"Reports of gastrointestinal distress, stomach cramps, nausea and diarrhea are also frequently reported, especially during the loading phase when greater amounts of creatine are being ingested daily." (creatinemonohydrate.net)
ugh, double the odor issues.
Since about Christmas of 2002 I decided that I wanted to start running half marathons, so I started following the Paleo Diet. As part of it I had to about triple my meat intake to get sufficent calories in my diet. Also, I started taking a creatine supplement in low doses when I lift.
I am a machine compared to where I was a year ago. My mood paterns have became much less eratic, I need less sleep, and my grades are much better. Last summer I might have read two books, and so far this summer I have tought myself Computational Fluid Dynamics, Number Theory, Knot Theory, Graph Theory, and a lot of Combinatorics.
So does this study prove that vegetarians are stupid compared to us carnivores?
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
i'm thinking this may have more to do with the methane coming out the takers butt's than their actual body odor.
creatine can do funny things to a persons intestines if they don't drink enough water.
Accepting article submissions from a pretty obvious (and known) troll, now are we?
How long till the link redirects to goatse?
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
...does this mean that calling someone a "meat-head" will now be complementing their intelligence?
Now the athletes will have strength AND intelligence.... what is a nerd to do?!
Creatine's just an amino acid.
Not one of the vital ones to life: ie, if you don't have it, your protiens will not all mis-fold / you will not degenerate into a corpse.
Having WAYYY too much Creatine will help fuel bacterial growth & whatnot. Still, Creatine is a neat fuel, the body likes having it in muscle to fuel short-term bursts of energy.
Interested in more about amino acids/proteins and what they can mean to you? Check out Folding@Home as mentioned on Slash_ _dot
And fold for team #93
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
Note that the trial was done on vegetarians, as meat contains creatine and thus meat-eaters already get some in their diet. I can't see any tests done that suggest supplementing the dose has any significant affect for those of us that already get creatine from meat.
Hmm this probally explains why deoderant didn't work for me when I was sick. My Creatine clearance was sky high. I didn't feel any smarter though...
they're usually called "smart asses"
Something that is probably important to the Slashdot crowd--you'll gain about 10 lbs. of retained water in the first few weeks of taking it, and you will feel somewhat bloated. Yes, not only do I read Slashdot, but I also work out, and for approx. a year I tried Creatine. I'll be the first to say it does everything it advertises, but it also does a few things not necessarily on the label. So if you're going to sit in a chair all day, and take it, expect to pack on some more weight quick.
sig--we don't need no goddamn sig
Espect My Author-it-tie!
Eat at Joe's.
Then why is Ohio State's football graduation rate still around 30%?
According to this article, about 4 grams of creatine is found per kilogram of meat. So to get the same level of creatine you'd get from taking a supplement, you'd need to eat about 1-2 kilos of meat or fish a day.
I have had a lot of experience with creatine I assure you that do not believe that body odour suggestion at all - it sounds like complete and utter nonsence.
If you want the true disadvantages of it then I will give you a few to think about:
- When you use it after a while off it - you might be in the bathroom a fair bit. My stomach doesn't always agree with it.
- It does not taste very nice, mixed it is fine but its always there because it does not dissolve very well. Liquid with sand.. mmm.
- It will make you put on several kgs of water.. this can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing.. in the average builders sense this is good of course until he needs to shed the water for a contest.
- Some people are stimulated too much by it so they cannot take it late at night. Personally I have never experienced this though.
- This brain power concept, whilst it sounds cool you will not notice it much, this prediction I am making now, you might be more focussed but it will not be like taking a drug and walls start bending or something as vivid as that.
Its interesting that this should finally find its way of slashdot. For those of you who don't know creatine is naturally found in muscle, is naturally produced by the body and can be gained from most meats (at very small quantities though, not worth trying to eat more for creatine). Creatine was considered to be "too good to be true" for years upon years and has received more than its fair share of bad press and questionable research.
Only now are the public being given the truth that it is quite safe. Funny how often new things find their way through ridicule before being accepted.
Creatine is good to use but it is best cycled, your body will stop synthesising it after a while of supplementation. Stopping taking it for a while will reactivate this process.
Hope this was useful.. I tried to not say anything contraversial because I don't want to debate with people about this stuff. In case you didn't know the physical fitness industry is full of arrogant people who think they know their method works best. Most of the time their method is either crap or in the case of most supplements nothing but smoke and mirrors. The most important thing is listening to the right people and taking note how your own body responds to different stimulus.
Everything I say here is purely experience related, if you want the lowdown on these topics go to http://www.t-mag.com - these guys tell the truth, its refreshing. They had talked about this evidence many many months (maybe years) before.
Now THERE is a bright idea!
:) It's certainly been a great help in my own exercising. Not only did it help me gain faster in exercising, but, more importantly, exercising didn't hurt any more. There was that problem with gas, though...
Let's take a group that has a great likelyhood of lacking proper nutrition, give them a supplement, and assume the results would work on a broader scale.
Sure, feeding oranges to someone with scurvy might help them gain strength and improve mood, but it doesn't mean it would do it in a normal case.
That said, I hope it really is applicable in normal cases
Fortunately, there are creatine supplements which are less likely to cause the problems of gas, bloating, and water retention.
When I worked out (stopped when I went back to school to finish up my degree) i ate a bunch of these. I cant say if i had any noticably change, since i was'nt paying attention to it. But, funnily enough this was the period i decided to go back to school.
I think most geeks have been choosing brain power over pleasant body odor for a long time now.
Amazing! So we geeks must have been naturally producing this stuff all along!
Vegatarianarian: One who eats nothing but Vegitarians.
Eat at Joe's.
I don't think this should come as a surprise to anyone in my office. The guy in the cubicle next to me is probably the brainiest guy here, but JEEEZUZZZ does he stink....at least now he can use this as an excuse for his stench. Personally, I smell of faeces...but that's a whole other story.
... whether that is Mr. Raymond's real middle name.
is this why dumb people seem to get more sex?
The enlarged forehead is clear evidence of their growing brain power
See:
Shopper's Drug Mart herbal info on Creatine
Some snippets from this link:
The supplement is also notorious for creating an unpleasant odour in the vicinity of the taker.
I heard that they had to give the control group garlic pills to keep the study "double blind".
Bureaucracy loves company.
Go to school and read a book.
Easy way to get smart and stay smart.
-n-
I have a really hard time believing that. I have never heard any reports by anyone that indicate the kind of side-effects that you are describing. Are you sure your friends aren't juicing? I have used creatine in the past and it did absolutely nothing for me. It did not make me faster and it didn't produce any side-effects. I may as well have been swallowing sand.
I read something similar to this in Muscle and Fitness about a year ago, but the note there pertained to increased mental function in elderly men.
As a personal note, I've used creatine monohydrate powder off and on for about a year. I noticed somewhat increased lifting performance, but along with it a somewhat increased thirst. Be sure to drink *lots* of water if you take creatine. I didn't notice any difference between a creatine/glycogen stack (CELL-TECH) versus using a plain creatine monohydrate powder mixed in water, execpt the stacked product was much more expensive.
One thing to remember that merely taking a supplement (other than anabolic steriods) is not going to make you look like this guy. Athletic use of creatine delays the onset of muscle fatigue by enhancing the resynthesis of ATP from ADP and creatine phosphate. In other words, it allows you to do a little more work, a little faster than you could without it. It's a subtle, but measureable effect.
Heh, this reminds me of the Seinfeld repeat that was on the other night - the one where they're doing the thing with talking to the elderly and Kramer and Newman are selling old records.
Kramer and Newman are in the record store and the bloke behind the counter offers them a lousy price and Newman starts speaking aloud to him everything that Kramer is saying to him. The clincher is: "You emit a foul and unpleasant odour."
Is it possible that the bloke behind the counter was taking creatine? Might explain why Kramer and Newman got their arses kicked. =]
Body odor is not the only side affect. People who use creatine have problems with losing hair, enlarged foreheads and impotence.
Proof?
Niacin is a vitamin, so it is completely safe.
nothing is completely safe, it all depends on dosage. while it is true that 500mg of niacin (props for using the metric system, dear parentposter) won't harm you it doesn't mean that 5g are safe too. vitamin c has been related to cancer, albeit in insanely high doses, some other vitamins too (i recall a warning that these ACE drinks have enough vit A to make you sick if you drink enough), your blood has 0.9% salt, so salt should be safe, too, right? well have one or two spoons full of salt then, and tell us if you have survived, which you won't.
Pardon my ignorance, but would a plausible explanation be that vegetarians have a creatine deficiency, thereby making them hypersensitive to the supplements? Is it also possible to consider that the sample group had less muscle mass than their carnivorous counterparts, thereby further lowering the amount of regular creatine within their bodies?
I really don't know if publishing theories from research journals is prudent or responsible reporting; the distillation of findings, capped by the bold statement that "Creatine 'boosts brain power'" seems hasty. Don't tell me about the disclaiming effect of the quotation marks around 'boosts brain power'--the statement still has the same effect to most casual news readers.
Losers choose to abuse the use of "loose".
One Can Never Own Enough Musical Instruments...
I don't think creatine has any really serious side effects. Many people have been taking it for years, and nothing too serious has come out of it. I started taking it myself in '98. Here's what I've found personally:
1. Weight gain
I put on a lot more muscle after I started taking creatine. I had been stuck at a plateau for months before I started, but once I started, growth got started. Some of the weight gain was water weight. My strenght improved, as did my sprint times (I'm a swimmer), but for distance I got slower.
2. Muscular endurace improvement
I said above that my distance times suffered. This is because of increased body weight, and the extra cardio vascular work that ensues. However, I have found that while I am supplementing with creatine, I am able to force out more work after getting to the point where my muscles hurt from lactic acid. This may be 90% of the reason my sprints are improved.
Beyond this, many others have reported body odor. Some college wrestlers died a few years backafter intensive workouts in rubber suits. It was reported that they had elevated blood creatine levels. Some media said supplementation was a cause of death. Most mainstream sports journals contended creatine is always elevated after intense work outs, and it was especially so in this case because the wresters had dehydrated themselves to try to cut weight.
One last concern I have heard of is adaptation. Creatine does come from meats, but the body also manufactures it. Some have said that if you regularly take creatine for a long period of time, that your body might lose the ability to make it. This is the only one that worries me. So, I say just use it cyclicly, and don't worry. There are thousands who started using it years ago, and any long term damage will get them first, and then you can stop taking it.
In the mean time, get HUGE!!! Oh, and uh, smart, too.
I'm a gnu world man.
I used creatine for about six months with the recommended 'break' periods in between doses.
One side effect that I remember was increased agitation. Of course, the inferior boobs surrounding me at work could have caused that.
Although I'd like to point out that it's not the size of the ass. It's the size of the ass in relation to the rest of the body. I've never understood men who ogle after a big ass or big breasts as if that single feature makes the girl either attractive or ugly.
A huge ass with an otherwise lithe body does not look good. Huge breasts on a small body don't look nice either. On the other hand, a large ass combined with large breasts (possibly with narrow waist) can be extremely sexy. Sort of a Marilyn Monroe figure. I also find geeky women with small breasts and narrow hips attractive too. What I find unattractive is anything unproportional (augmented, artificial looking breasts for instance) or just something mismatched in the size of the various parts of the body. Symmetry is beautiful.
BOO! TERRO
I wish this story had been posted instead -- US Air Force's Space Legos:
8 7
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=99
Rubber duckies don't count
Take the pill long enough to get smarter without regard to whether that happens prior to butt enlargement, then decide. Since you are now smarter you will make a better decision. Hopefully the least desirable of the effects of the pill wear off if/when you decide to stop taking it.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Didn't MS have a product code-named "stinker"? Oh wait, that was "stinger". Boy, did that stink.
OLPC Australia
Are you sure creatine is the only supplement your friends take? I'd link the hair loss, enlarged foreheads and impotence to their juicing, not creatine.. Creatine has been a very popular supplement for a number of years now, and hasn't been linked to any long term side effects like those you mention. The one problem I recall reading about is that large doses of creatine combined with low water intake puts a big strain on your kidneys.
You're retarded.
Anyone who told you they got those side effects from "using creatine" was bullshitting you. They were using some serious gear, not just creatine. In case you didn't know, it's actually quite difficult for most people to "look like a juicer" without some form of anabolic steroids or possibly a keen stack of prohormones. Natural body builders don't generally look like body builders, and they rarely compete, because they simply cannot pack on the muscle with the same ease of a hormonally-enhanced body builder. Creatine, while it does work, does not pack on the muscle like steriods do. If it did, it would be a controlled substance. Here comes the cluestick!
it's insiteful...
Perhaps the perpetual oder that some geeks have isn't JUST due to poor hygene. Perhaps they naturallly have a characteristic that causes their bodies to retain more creatine.
I tried creatine a few years ago. I didn't notice any body oder problems, and nobody around me seems to complain. The only affect I did see was that I got excruciating leg cramps after about 20 min of soccer. No amount of stretching seemed to help. That was the end of creating for me.
eeehr.. what creatine where they using?
I've ate a bunch of them, so did a few of my close friends (one still does). None of us have any of the SE ur talking about.
I can't belive that creatine will effect you bone structure(enlarged forheads), to my knowledge not even steroids do this. You need really really strong hormones for this job (there isnt any hormones in creatin at all), stuff like the hormones that you give to dwarfs to make them grow a bit. This is a really popular drug with the juicers, and will make your forhead bigger. Look at arnold, he popped them tings like crazy.
It sounds like the people you are talking about, are'nt being all that thrustworthy when they say their only doing creatin.
Also note, creatin has been used on aids patients for a looong time. None of them are getting large forheads and/or loosing all their hair. If this was a side effect, it would have gotten noticed by now.
First time I've seen that listed as a side effect
There has been more than enough Creatine related FUD in the tabloid/gutter press over here (UK). Seems the BBC is adding to it as well. From my experience, and that of others I know, body odour has never been a factor.
I've taken this stuff before and it gave my training the boost I was looking for. Never noticed any side effects, apart from the obvious temporary weight gain. Was younger and a bit of a fitness freak then, wouldn't bother with it now tho.
The biggest mistake people make when taking it, is to stay on it for too long, leaving them with comparatively depleted energy levels when they eventually stop taking it.
IANADNW (Doctor, Nutritionist, Whatever) but IMHO pay as much attention to the increased brain power element of it as all the other ubiquitous Vitamins/Drinking Tea/Exercising/Yogic Chanting increase/decreases your Life Expectancy/Impotency/Hair Loss stories
...I'll be smarter, but smell like a goat.
Let's look at this for a moment.
By being smarter and having a better memory, I'll do better at work, and there by get a better/more raises with which to buy a bigger house, more geek toys, and possibly make me attractive to women, and the only drawback is I'll smell like ass.
I guess I can forget those penis enlargement pills I keep getting mail about and go with this.
With all that extra money I'll be making, I'll just spend a little of it on some cologne.
-Goran
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
So will Creatine be banned from events that require brainpower such as chess competitions? Would the winner of Mastermind be stripped of his title after testing positive for abnormal creatine levels? If this does take off, there's going to be some serious regulation needed..
Niacin depresses liver function in large doses. Vitamin A and D overdoses can kill you.
I went through the creatine during by pill-popping super-exercise dude phase. Creatine did up my weight slightly but not my strength. I talked with some old coaches and found that they were only recommending it for elite athletes involved in rigorous training. Safely wasn't the concern. The creatine boost was considered so tiny that the expense was only considered worth it for a pro-level athlete, where a .1-3% improvement might actually make a difference.
It may have a brainpower effect, but I suspect it is minor, but the pill makers and newspapers will over sell this. I suspect a good cup of coffee will do more for your cognitive process.
P.S. Creatine has no steroidal effect. It increases cellular ATP and water levels. Any bulking in non-elite athlete is attributed to increased water ballooning the cells.
"None of us have any of the SE ur talking about."
Or, apparently, the increased brainpower.
I agree. The side-effects he mentioned are historically associated with juicing (taking anabolic steriods), not with creatine.
me covering up my body odor with deoderant makes me dumber and weaker. Mmm, maybe I should sue Right Guard for taking my "intellectual property".
I am reading the threads above and I find it really amusing that everyone I have read so far mentions a bad experience (or a geek-BO joke). It seems many people believe creatine will just make you bigger. I am just as much as a geek as everyone here, but I grew up very athletic and all of my childhood friends have grown up to become Physical Therapists, Physical Trainers, etc. And, since I finished college (where I was captain of the wrestling team [which makes it hard for people to believe I am a geek]), I have been keeping in decent shape so that I can get the ladies.
/W
Creatine does not provide strength the way steroids do, if you are looking for that kind of work out, I would suggest Andro supplements. IIRC, this is what Mark Maquire was taking that got him in trouble. The problem with Andro is that even though it is legal it has the same side effects as typical anabolic steroids (acne, shrinking testicles, etc.).
Creatine is a complex amino acid that gets called upon as your fast twitch muscle fibers get closer to failure. For people who lift, these are the portion of the muscle that will grow if exercised properly. Your muscle fibers are torn or damaged during the workout, and rebuilt over the next few days. Your body will re-build these muscles much stronger than before, and in most cases, larger than before. The critical phase of the workout is the tearing of the fibers. When your body is properly loaded with creatine, it will allow you to go a little further than normally possible to tear down more than normal, which is when you will benefit the most. Creatine is a tricky supplement though, it is difficult to get your body to deliver it on ingestion. I've heard many times that insulin has something to do with it and most supplements suggest ingesting it with a natural fruit drink (grape juice, etc.). and it also suggests a loading phase for a week where you are taking a ton of the stuff.
I have used creatine off and on for quite a while, and I can say that my strength is slightly improved during periods when taking it, but if you are looking for size, the protein supplements are more important. The BO part is hard for me to understand, since people are suggested to take creatine about 30 minutes before your workout. Doesn't everyone shower after their workout? This has always been my routine, maybe that's why I have never heard of the BO. To me the bigger problem has always been that protein rich foods, as well as the protein supplements, make your breath smell and give you gas.
I guess what I am saying is that there is no easy way to get fit and look good. And I also understand that it just isn't a priority to everyone. So be it, but don't give a half-assed try to some supplement and then bitch because it didn't work the way you wanted. The first thing people need to learn is that you need to get a good workout above all else. These supplements only work if you are already getting a good workout without them, they do not turn a bad workout into a good one, they only turn a good workout into a better one.
About 7 years ago, I played football (American) in High School (BTW, do I belong here?). Anyway, our coach pushed creatine for the better players so that they could bulk up. I do not recall an body odor issues, but there was concern over other effects.
About that time, a wrestler from Wisconsin (I believe) died while using creatine (the very high dosage and many hours in a wet suit on an exercise bike with no water while trying to make weight probably added to the issue).
Creatine is simplistically a way to get anaerobic (no oxygen) energy without the lactic acid build-up. This is because the aerobic (with oxygen) stuff happens before the activity, and the energy is then stored on the creatine amino acid in a semi-stable form.
Anyway, there was a lot of worry that nothing was/is known about the long term effects. It is known to occur naturally, even more so in fish, and swimmers have a high natural presence (holding their breath and all).
A quick google shows a lot of pro-creatine info on body-building sites. They indicate that serious side-effects are known, but IIRC the lack of possible side effects in not generally considered to be "proven" (to the extent that you can ever prove that sort of thing).
Perhaps not so much to the general population but specifically to people suffering from chronic renal failure or a syndrome known as renal insufficiency. Let me explain: one of the tests for malfunctioning kidneys is high urine creatine (derivative) levels. Normal kidneys conserve this valuable substance but in damaged kidneys the filters are damaged and relatively large molecules are lost in urine output. As a result blood levels of creatine become abnormally low and muscle wasting gradually occurs (creatine is a vital component in muscle tissue synthesis - amongst other functions).
= Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10893433&dopt=Abstrac t
All the above has been well known for a long time. However the discovery that creatine plays a role in intellectual functioning may explain (at least in part) the previously mysterious decline in intellectual functioning and concomitant depression that occurs gradually in those with long term impairment of renal function. Hopefully, with more research, this new piece of the jigsaw can help those of us suffering from this particularly debilitating aspect of renal disease that is poorly documented in the medical literature but of critical importance to the quality of life of those with this disease.
Finally, a cautionary note to those with healthy kidneys. Prolonged and excessive use of creatine as a standalone dietary suppplement can cause severe and irreversible kidney damage. You will not notice this damage until it is too late, because kidneys have a high a degree of redundancy and can function properly when even 10-20 percent of the organ remains undamaged. Therefore read the dosage info on these supplements and be very conservative in your usage !
For those who are interested in more detail this paper is the best I know of for drawing together the many facets of creatine and creatinine metabolism:
Creatine and creatinine metabolism.
Wyss M, Kaddurah-Daouk R.
Physiol Rev. 2000 Jul;80(3):1107-213.
An abstract of this article can be found here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd
This abstract from the Sep 2002 issue of Life Extension Magazine reported:
[...] All these findings pinpoint to a close correlation between the functional capacity of the creatine kinase/phosphorylcreatine/creatine system and proper brain function. They also offer a starting-point for novel means of delaying neurodegenerative disease, and/or for strengthening memory function and intellectual capabilities.
lol, yeah, steroidal side effects. Someone was talking out their ass to you. Creatine does not have any steroidal side effects. It does not make you look like a juicer at all. To get actual changes in skeletal structure you must be on some serious gear. Losing hair has to do with the increased DHEA (if I recall) that comes along with the increased test levels from taking steroids. Also if you are not already genetically predisposed to losing hair you will not lose hair from steroid use. Impotence I believe has to do with the increased blood pressure that comes from steroid use. Also something that creatine does not affect. Please get your facts straight before you spew more FUD about supplement use in bodybuilding. A good place to start would be http://www.bodybuilding.com
No, if beliving that a legal drug is powerfull enough to effect your bones is a measurement of "brainpower". I dont have alot of it.
oh, and btw. if the remark had something to do with my spelling, fell free to reply to me on danish. I might take you serious then.
but then again, the fact that you post this as anonymous underlines the not only are you an idiot, you're an idiot and to corwardly to stand by your view.
One side effect that I remember was increased agitation. Of course, the inferior boobs surrounding me at work could have caused that.
Simple solution, hire a secretary with superior boobs.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour
Uhh, that and death resulting from renal failure, no big deal.
It's like this: You want to be in shape, you have to exercise, there is no safe shortcut that you can bypass the "work" part of the equation.
You want to be smart? Exercise your brain, bend spoons, project force fields, solve equations, read something, c'mon work it!
Thinking you can be smarter simply by using a drug to bypass the effort proves you are already too stupid to benefit anyway.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
Your friend was probably shooting himself up. Creatine has never had any of the following side effects you mentioned. I have taken it before and only had dehydration and stomach problems during the loading phase. It is well known though that you need to drink atleast a gallon of water a day while on creatine because your muscles are able to absorb alot more water. The fact that your post is modded as informative would crack up the people over at www.bodybuilding.com forums.
I have been using creatine since 2000.
Creatine has no DHT, nor it does transforms to DHT because it is not a steroid, so it won't affect your hair.
If you really know someone with enlarged forehead, he must be overdosing on Human Growth Hormone. But most likely, he always had a big forehead.
Impotence??? That means your friends are taking a steroid with low androgenic activity, like nandrolone. Ask your friends to add testosterone to their steroid stack, and the impotence will be gone.
By the way. This is the first time I hear about body odor as a side effect of creatine (among the thousands of creatine studies). I'm sorry, but that's another red flag for the study.
Creatine does not cause the side effects that you are talking about. You need powerful drugs to get results like that, usually Human Growth Hormone is needed to enlarge the skull. That kind of stuff is what has grown men changing hat sizes.
The hair loss is probably being caused by some sort of overdose of testosterone.
And in case you are wondering why someone would want to make their skull bigger. They take the growth hormone to make their bones stronger so that the increased muscle won't cause bone damage.
So this is why vegans are so brain-dead?
love is just extroverted narcissism
More like, "are you attempting to communicate with me by sound propagation through air?"
If other geeks are like me, that's a very unusual method of communication, much less frequent than the electric or optical signal binary transfer methods.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Wouldn't losing his hair cause his forehead to APPEAR larger? You're friends just going bald. As far as impotence, why the hell would your friend tell you that? Why the hell would you care?
I once read that in order to get one teaspoon of creatine from food, you'd have to eat 1+ kg of raw beef. So much for the "you can get all those substances by eating healthier food" theory.
1. As other people have pointed out... the safety of using such dietary supplements is not known. go read their posts for more info.
2. Creatine is intended to help bulk muscles. It is intended to be used with a rigorous exersize routine. Chances are if you eat this stuff just for the brain effects it may make you even fatter.
I think America's fixation with solving our problems other ways is a big problem in itself.
If you have a bad memory, it's probably just because you never pay attention (that's my problem anyway).
If you have "A.D.D", you probably just don't have any self control, that's my problem.
If you're overweight, it's because you don't regulate what you eat, and you don't exersize. I changed my diet and workout regularly and am getting in great shape pretty quickly.
Before you go out and buy pills or pay a doctor to diagnose your behavior or something, or even buy the "natural" cure (those pills filled with some sort of grain or something), just try altering your own behavior first.
no comment
This study seems weak. And the body odor side effect raises a red flag.
Among the thousands of creatine monohydrate studies, this is the first time I hear something about body odor.
By the way, I have been using creatine monohydrate since 2000.
Some side effects of creatine, mentioned in other posts, like stomach cramps, and diarrea, are not really creatine monohydrate side effects. If you buy a good brand of creatine, like the German one CREAPURE, you won't have any problem. If you have stomach cramps, that means you are using a crap suplement. A lot of cheap "creatine" supplements in the market are full of impurities, like Na, creatinine, Dihydrotriazine, Dicyandiamide, and some companies add baking soda to rip you off (verified with a lab test) and only half real creatine.
In conclusion, most side effects attributed to creatine are not caused by the creatine, are caused by impurities in cheap products. Just don't buy cheap creatine.
No, no, and no.
"People who use creatine have problems with losing hair..."
I used creatine for a while. I have a lot of hair.... and it's still on my head.... and I grew it myself.
"...enlarged foreheads and impotence."
No. That does not occur from creatine.
"Basically, you can expect a number of the side affects that you would from using steroids-- you start to look like a "juicer"."
The only way you can look like a juicer is if you become a juicer. I don't know where you got your information, but I can assure you it's not the boyscouts.
Having used creatine on and off for the past 5 or so years, I can say that none of what this dude says is correct or accurate in any way. If anything, creatine can make you bloated IF you don't work out while using it. Also, some studies are linking creatine to increased rates of diabetes, and are finding that creatine might be taxing on the liver. And while using it, you have to drink more water (go to any nutrtion store and look at ANY of the creatine supplements and it will always say to drink moer water). Anyway, get a fucking clue.
also your intelligence and... unpleasant body odour."
Having gone to an engineering school, I found the two to go hand in hand anyways.
Ecce Europa - Web Design for Business
I have seen studies linking creatine to DECREASED risk of diabetes, because it helps to regulate blood sugar.
A lot of studies show that creatine, in your post workout meal, increases the transport of glucose to your muscles, increasing glycogen retention in your muscles. Translation: good for you, stronger, faster recovery, decreased diabetes.
Its not the size alone, but the muscular shape, how well its kept and its relative size to the rest of the body. This is of course within limits.. beyond a certain big (or small) size it gets unattractive, but that range covers most women.
Internal size is an entirely different story.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I believe Creatine also increases the amount of cellular water retention, but that once you stop taking it everything goes back to "normal". I also used Cell-Tech's Creatine mix, and concur with your statement that you should drink extra water.
People should understand that taking supplements doesn't gives you muscles. The only thing that increases muscle mass is your body repairing damaged muscle tissue. That's why you lift weights. If you've ever done bar-dips, you probably know the tingling feeling of micro-muscle tears. Supplements, steroids, it's all for the same purpose: to enable you to better wear out your muscles. Of course, people are always looking for shortcuts, often to their detriment (in the case of steroids), yet overlook some of the most basic and essential needs the body requires.
This is why sleep and diet are so crucial to muscle development. A proper diet, particularly one rich in protein, not only gives you the right building blocks for new muscle material, but also gives you energy when you're working out. Sleep is just as important, because it is during sleep (not during exercise) that your body repairs itself and rebuilds muscle. I've seen too many people work out every day, and then stay up late into the evening, complaining that they aren't seeing any results. They simply never give their body a chance to heal before they're breaking it down again in the gym.
Sorry for the fitness diatrabe, I just thought I'd add my two cents for anyone interested.
So I take it that this body odor is found in all us intellectual muscular types... :-)
One side effect that I remember was increased agitation. Of course, the inferior boobs surrounding me at work could have caused that.
You know, you start working out, and all of a sudden your standards go through the roof. The chicks around you aren't pretty enough... they're not fit enough... their boobs are "inferior". Jeez.
"The researchers found that subjects' ability to remember long numbers improved from a number length of approximately seven digits, to an average of 8.5."
Disclaimer: I am unable to find any information on the methodology of this testing (yes I RTFA and attempted to no avail). Assistance Requested.
That said, it seems like this article states that constant testing increases abilities. I learned that in grade school, lost it in hIgh school, and it returned in College. Yay.
"Dr Rae believes that the creatine increases the amount of energy available to the brain for computational tasks, improving general mental ability. "
Because it is convenient for his findings, is a bad doctor, or both?
HATE ME
-- Stupidity is mans last defence for ineptitude
"this is the gloaming"
radiohead
It is rumoured that are these pills that can be found on the Internet that will make your penis bigger that you can ever imagine. That will counteract any potential shrinkage....
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
People who use creatine have problems with losing hair, enlarged foreheads and impotence.
Ummm... My guess is that you don't know what Creatine is and you let some guys bs you. Creatine has nothing to do with Steroids, it's completely natural, and is a chemical that is found in your muscles right now. Taking Creatine has been shown to improve endurance, but not much more, unless this study shows some substance.
-B
The EU is currently considering a proposal that will prohibit health-related food advertisements until prove (see here) . The only question is: What counts as proof? ;)
Vegetarians are creatine deficient and always get better results than non-vegetarians when taking creatine suplements.
There are creatine studies that shows that.
And in fact, some people get so much creatine in their diets, that suplementing with more creatine, adds nothing (there's no anaerobic performance increase, no strength increase, and I'm sure that no "brain power boost").
Maybe they can start doping the water supply with this stuff, similar to the flourine deal. Perhaps after a few years, I won't have to deal with so many idiots!
Consider the intelligence of the average person. Now consider the fact that about half of the world is dumber than that.
All Your Memory Are Belong To Java
Dear god it hurts. How is it that someone so woefully missinformed manages to post all this bollocks and come away thinking he's done us a favour?
Listen Civil_Disobedient (261825), do yourself a favour, put down the muscle mags, stop listening to the idiots at the gym and go read some excercise science textbooks/research papers if you want to learn anything.
Liberty.
I think that product would be a hit. Would you like to distribute that pill in Brazil? If so, send me an e-mail!!!!!
The Niacinimide form is better, less liver stress, and no flushing.
--Slashdot: News for Turds. Stuff that Splatters.
How long did it take them to figure this out?
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
I understand mathletes have been using this stuff for years...
This finally explains why us carnivores are so much smarter than those leaf-eaters.
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm
In many parts of the world, men still select, whether conciously or not women on child-bearing ability. This is not a new trend, if anything the newer 'fashion' preferring women to look like children is recent and perverse.
See my journal, I write things there
I used to live with a body builder, taking this suppliment doesn't make you ooze some odor out of your skin. One word, FARTS! Thats it, the stuff that used to come out of him used to clear classrooms! Oh my god, they should bottle that for riot control!
Aside from that however.. The effect it had on my body was impressive. Before I started taking it, my workouts started to stagnate. The interval at which I increased my weight started to become longer and longer. After I started using creatine it seems liked everytime I went back to the gym I could add a little bit more weight.
Since then, I've stopped working out as much but plan to start taking it again in Sept. The only concern I have is what kind of affect will it have on my kidney's. I haven't read any long term research that indicates that this is/isn't an issue.
I guess if used 'properly' and you cycle it as advised by a trainer you'll reduce you chances of any adverse affects. But who knows these days.. One day eggs are bad, then they are good, now there's good/bad fat and items cooked at oven temperatures (bread) have higher levels of carcinogen. It seems you can't eat right at all these days and if you do, 10 years from now research might say it isn't healthy.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
I've been using creatine to study since I went to college, I find it not only helps your memory, but also gives you a little extra energy to make it though the night. Couple that with a dose of ephedra (ephedrine) and some vitamins, and you have what it takes to pull 3 days straight of all nighters with out naps. I even suggested it to a roommate; he found he preferred throwing a little ginko into the mix with it.
Are there any other study tools besides aderol that any one knows of?
IMPORTANT: as the article states, people who eat red meat already get creatine from that source. Creatine supplementation is most interesting for people who exercise regularly and don't eat red meat.
It's interesting that the sub-headline of the article says "The dietary supplement creatine - known to improve athletic performance..."
I seem to recall seeing in the 1990s reports of studies showing that creatine did indeed improve athletic performance. My own experience was different.
In the mid-1990s, I was basically following the recommendations of the US government: loads of carbohydrates, reasonable quantities of protein, and very, very little fat. I avoided red meat and ate a lot more chicken and turkey breast meat.
I would go to the gym twice per week and train with high intensity. I discovered that even with the massive quantities of food I was eating and the decent amount of sleep I was getting (being a grad student at the time, I had a very flexible schedule... as a result, it was almost always possible to correct any sleep deficit with a nap), my body simply could not recuperate in less time.
The personal trainers at the gym had, I'm sure, the best intentions when they designed workout programs for me, but the problem is that the programs they designed would have been good for two types of person: the genetically gifted and users of 'roids (I don't think it's a coincidence that many personal trainers fit into one of these two categories). For a normal human being, it just isn't possible for the body to recover from three days of exercise in one day (they typically designed programs of the type "three days of training and one day of rest").
Anyway, since I wasn't eating red meat, I thought I could benefit from creatine supplementation. What did I find? Well, I can summarize it like this: if creatine were as effective as a bodybuilding supplement as it is as a laxative, I would be as big now as the next Governor of California.
In my experience, creatine just made my poop (much) softer and gave it a funny color. No, I don't make a habit of checking out the contents of the toilet, but the color was so weird it caught my eye and I started paying attention. I know this is disgusting, but I am simply telling a true story.
I eventually quit creatine and designed a workout program based on the book "Brawn," i.e., on lots of squats as the main exercise and on increasing the weight lifted each time at the gym, and focused on building strength, not size. I got a lot stronger, and I gained a significant amount of muscle weight.
In my experience, a good workout program that did not force overtraining (unlike most that personal trainers at gyms will create for you) and done with sufficient intensity (gawd how my thighs used to burn toward the end of a set of 20 squats with a bar 1.5 times the weight of my body) had a much greater effect on my strength than my use or non-use of creatine did.
In 2000, I came to the conclusion that it was kind of stupid for me to put so much effort into fighting nature. If my body were meant to be larger and more muscular, it would be that way naturally, without me having to destroy it every 3 or 4 days. I haven't done any weightlifting in years, and I haven't even thought about wasting money on creatine in several years.
FWIW, I don't remember feeling smarter during my experimentation with creatine. My immediate guess is that creatine is as effective as a "smart drug" as it is as a bodybuilding supplement, i.e., not very.
YMMV.
--Mark
"It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner
The correct grammar is "as we men have no shame."
I am thoroughly impressed. It seems I now have a definitive explanation of How The Stuff I Always Wondered About actually works. Mind you I did suspect that chlorophyll could handle just about every odour-related problem. When I was growing up, my mum fed us a diet of traditional Italian food, much of it grown in the backyard -- we planted (and used) as much garlic as we did parsely.
Now if I could find an explanation of why her habit of wrapping our sprains and bruises with bandages soaked in vinegar produced better results than anything found in your local pharmacy.
This is false, I had a friend that I have no doubt was all natural who competed as a body builder, was on ESPN 2, etc. People who say "You can't look like that without steriods/hormons/HGH/etc" are crying sour grapes.
I believe the hardgainer theory, which states that some people have a genetic make-up which does not allow them to pack on muscle quickly. These type of people typically do not respond large volumes and frequency of training. It has been estimated that 60%-95% of the population are hardgainers. Click here for more information about hardgainers.
After reading the article I think the true results indicate that since vegitarians don't regularly consume creatine through normal food consumption, they are as intelligent as their omnivorous counterparts. Just a thought, but don't tell PETA.
As for side affects, there were none. And as I said in another post.. my wife didn't complain about any odors (more than normal anyways. :)
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
increase chances of surviving georgewellian fuddite life0cide, etc....
.continue to come up on the short end of the FUDgeCycle(tm)
.controll? corepirate nazis? pharmaceuticals?
that's right. the absolutely free methods to improve yOUR condition include use of those time tested elements, oxygen, & water.
hard to believe that something so simple/cost effective, could improve yOUR ability to participate in the planet/population rescue program, as well as improving your owned lot, goes unrecognized. you can add/subtract various other stuff for cause&effect, but if you overlook the basics, you/all of us, will
once you get more oxygen on your brain, you'll begin to see the lights coming up. as most of you already know, we're all mostly water, so more of that can't hurt/helps a lot. why aren't these methods to superior health/ability widely known/promoted? can you say monIE? deception?
you're still hiding behind the 8bawl robbIE?
the lights are coming up now.
you can pretend all you want. our advise is to be as far away from the walking dead contingent as possible, when the big flash occurs. you wouldn't want to get any of that evile on you.
as to the free unlimited energy plan, as the lights come up, more&more folks will stop being misled into sucking up more&more of the infant killing barrolls of crudeness, & learn that it's more than ok to use newclear power generated by natural (hydro, solar, etc...)methods. of course more information about not wasting anything/behaving less frivolously is bound to show up, here&there.
cyphering how many babies it costs for a barroll of crudeness, we've decided to cut back, a lot, on wasteful things like giving monIE to felons, to help them destroy the planet/population.
no matter. the #1 task is planet/population rescue. the lights are coming up. we're in crisis mode. you can help.
the unlimited power (such as has never been seen before) is freely available to all, with the possible exception of the aforementioned walking dead.
consult with/trust in yOUR creator. more breathing. vote with yOUR wallet. seek others of non-aggressive intentions/behaviours. that's the spirit, moving you.
pay no heed/monIE to the greed/fear based walking dead.
each harmed innocent carries with it a bad toll. it will be repaid by you/us. the Godless felons will not be available to make reparations.
pay attention. that's definitely affordable, plus you might develop skills which could prevent you from being misled any further by phonIE ?pr? ?firm? generated misinformation.
good work so far. there's still much to be done. see you there. tell 'em robbIE.
the rest of the wwworld is laughing/crying at/for US in sympathy/disgust, as we fall/jump into the daze of the georgewellian corepirate nazi life0cide, whilst criticizing their ip gangsters, which are also members of the walking dead.
Back in the 1950s, chlorophyll was a fad food, and supposedly had the power to make you and your breath smell better. They put it in everything: toothpaste, candy, all sorts of stuff. Even dog food, so that your pooch would smell better. I think Clorets is the sole survivor from that time.
The fad ended when it was pointed out that goats practically live on chlorophyll, but they still stink.
The other day a friend was talking to me and I caught a wiff. I told him, smell that? Some days it goes on all day.. He said he was glad I told him it wasn't me because he thought it was!
Yesterday the bastard farted while my manager stopped by for a visit. Lovely.
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."
There is no such thing as "Vitamin B". There are different B vitamins, B1, B2, B3 (niacin), B6, and B12 are the best known. Each has different short and long term safety levels, different for each person.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Well, "Mr. I-Didn't-Inhale" locked up more pot smokers than any other President.
/. one) a bitch?
The Libertarian Party pointed out that this one fact cost Gore Florida, and thus the Presidency.
Ain't Karma (the "real" one, not the
Agreed. Creatine can be dangerous too. If some loser decides to take alot of this stuff and fails to hydrate themselves...kidney and liver problems will occur. I was one of those losers. You need LOTS of hydration as it basically uses water to make your muscles bigger. I was pissing blood at one point, and that was the last of that. This is just more sensationalism.
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
Among other "damning" evidence, 22-23 vegetarians memorized on average 8.5 digit numbers vs. 7 for a control group of similar size. IANAV (I Am Not A Vegetarian) so maybe the meat in my diet provides me with sufficient creatine.
I've taken this supplement in the past both for body building and later for rock climbing. Its long term effects are unknown. It gives you diarrhea and gastrointestinal problems. It causes cell-volumzing through water retention. That's good for bodybuilding but terrible if you're trying to maintain a low weight for a sport like climbing. But, most importantly, neither I nor anyone else noticed an improvement in my mental functioning during these time periods. YMMV.
Hey, here's an idea, how about reading a book!
Seriously, this story is just bad for Slashdot readers for many reasons. Creatine does work, if you *need* it. More on that later. Every so often there seems to be an "Ask Slashdot" question posted by someone who doesn't want to expend a little extra effort to work out, but instead wants some shortcut that they can do while sitting on their ass in front of a computer. Creatine is not the answer for you, and here is why: You have to eventually abandon your shortcuts, and if you don't have a solid regimen, you'll go right back to where you are now. Instead of looking for some magic something-or-other, whether it be for exercise or intelligence, get off your ass (be it the one on your neck or your torso) and get to work! You think Arnold got to where he did because of drugs? And before you say "he took roids!", you have to realize that those gave him the edge. He got where he did because of hard ass, old-fashioned work. Roids alone won't give you that body. Just like taking creatine won't make you smart. And these things, if taken at all, should be to push you over the edge of your natural abilities. They aren't a starting point.
So if you think creatine will make you smarter, you have just taken a step backwards in your intelligence. Creatine will make you smarter if you realize you don't need it to make you smarter.
And yes, I used it for 3 months (1 month on, 1 month off, 1 month on). Did it help my lifting? Yes, somewhat significantly. If you use it, make sure you drink a LOT of water. I was drinking about a gallon a day. You get thirsty because your body needs the water. But eventually I came to the conclusion that the benefits aren't worth the health risks, which aren't fully known. I just know that if there are risks, I don't want to damage my body. If there aren't risks, then the gains aren't really that important to me. What is more important is that I maintain a regular workout schedule to maintain my health. I need to make sure my diet doesn't go to hell. I don't need creatine for that. As I get older, it will be more critical that I have a good regimen in place. There are no shortcuts. Realizing that will make you smarter than any supplement in the long run.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned the alleged protective effect creatine may have for concussions and head injuries. Most of you will probably think this will never happen to you. I did, which is why I wasn't wearing that bike helmet.
Taking creatine could prevent you from diminished mental capacity and memory problems after suffering some kind of accidental fall. The brain is quite a bit more soft and fragile than most people like to believe. It usually makes people uncomfortable to realize that the brain has a consistency not unlike jello, and that the neural (axonal) connections are surprisingly easy to disrupt permanently with a sudden deceleration or impact. It is also possible that minor shocks to the head can accumulate over the years resulting in subtly reduced memory abilities, although there is no direct evidence for this.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
So, what this tells me is that carnivores - and therefore predators - are smarter than herbivorous cattle. Surprise, surprise!
And the consequence of the stinky sweat is that predators have to know which way the wind blows, in order to stalk their prey from down-wind.
So, BO makes life harder for the hunters, necessitating that they be smarter to overcome the additional hardship. Who'da thunk it?!
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
Why is it that, whenever stories involving behavioral science or statistics get mentioned in a tech-oriented newsgroup (e.g., Slashdot, Kuro5hin)--regardless of the quality--people berate them as not being "real" science or "real" math? This coming from groups who usually seem to know nothing about either?
It's especially irksome to me because of all the questionable tech studies that get accepted uncritically at these sites. Is it about some new machine that in all likelihood might revolutionize commercial travel to mars in less than five years? Sure--no problem. But is it some behavioral science study building on decades of converging evidence and empirical tests? Junk science.
At these sites, even in cases when a tech study is recognized as being questionable, it is usually treated for what it is--a study having some flaws but also raising some questions. Rarely, if ever, does one deride it as being junk or "bad science." If it's in a peer-reviewed journal, there might be discussion of errors or flaws, but rarely does one ever claim it's not "real" science.
I'm not saying that I think we should all go out and take creatine. I recognize that there are problems with this study. But, as another poster pointed out, this doesn't mean it's not "real" science.
Why do these behavioral science studies focus on increasing ability, rather than decreasing ability? Because of two reasons. First, it's very easy to decrease mental abilities--just go and hit someone over the head really hard. Second, it's highly unethical. Think about it--would an internal review board approve of an experimental study designed to induce decreases in mental ability in humans, using a relatively uncharacterized substance?
Yes, these groups were small. But they're not that small. Certainly bigger than is typically used in brain imaging studies, and often bigger than what is used in biology studies--including cancer studies. The need for replication applies to all fields and all studies, regardless of sample size. The size of the sample is acceptable--it was at least acceptable enough to a panel of reviewers and editor--and the need to replicate the results is typical of any scientific study.
This study does have issues. I would like to see it replicated in another sample, with different characteristics, by different researchers. But the study raises interesting issues, and demonstrates the reasonableness of hypothesizing that creatine affects intellectual ability. Even if it's eventually shown reliably that vegetarians' intellectual abilities are improved by creatine, but nonvegetarians' abilities are not, we would be left with interesting suggestions that lack of creatine decreases--and but still affects--intellectual ability (which is ironic, given your complaint about studies focusing on increases in ability).
I'm not suggesting that Slashdot, or Kuro5hin, or whatever, accept everything uncritically. But is it possible for the readership of these newsgroups to recognize that because they can program a Linux shell script doesn't mean they understand everything about everything--including behavioral science and statistics? And even if they do understand it, to treat it for what it is--a single study--without introducing biases based on their conception of what fields of science are "real" and which are not?
Please, try not to be prejudiced in your treatment of fields of science. It's one thing to discuss flaws--it's an entirely different thing to deride something as not "real science."
"...but also your intelligence and memory" Scientist: We could remove the crayon for you! It could vastly increase your brain power! Or it could possibly kill you. Homer: Hmm... increase my killing power eh? ftp://ftp.smoovenet.com/pub/lardlad/sounds/season1 2/homr10.mp3
Less Talk. More Stab.
is that the brain power of vegetarians are probably lower than the brain power of people eating a normal diet consisting of food with somewhat high levels of creatine in them (e.g. meat).
"Eric Ass Raymond writes..." You can always trust someone with the middle name Ass.
You decidedly suffer from a case of "the grass is always greener."
You worked your ass off in school but didn't learn that some are NATURALLY smarter than others?
Yes, there were people better than me in Biology, and I am not Trent Reznor and I am not Lance Armstrong. And that is why I did other things, why I found classes and activities that were more suited to me. So yes, I learned there were things other people were "NATURALLY" smarter than me at, but I gave up on being a professional football player a long time ago. I also learned that if you are putting the hard work in in the correct field, you too can appear "NATURALLY" smarter than others!
You also need to learn that hard work without spending the time correctly slows progress.
Apparently you think I made it through college without learning time management. For me (and for many others, I would guess), if I found myself making zero progress in one area, it was either a clue to rest or move on to a different subject and then come back to it. Can you imagine how beneficial it is to alternate from Quantum Mechanics to Linear Algebra to Complex Analysis? Its amazing what your brain can do...even without coffee!
some are luckier than others, what's wrong with trying to spread the wealth?
Ask any olympian who had to compete against an athlete from the USSR who was twice as big from steroids. Its not right for physical performance, why is it different for mental? Its all biochemistry. And do not pull the "steroids give you cancer" argument. One, only if they are abused (and what today does not give you cancer?) and two, who knows what creatine does to you. Have you ever heard of it before Big Mac? (Mark MacGuire) Has there been a study on long term exposure?
I guess I just think differently than you do.
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
The IOC you to it: drug testing for bridge players. What's next - chess drug testing?
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
Creatinine has not been tested well. While the body produces it, it does so only in minuscule amounts compared to over the counter dosage. Unfortunately, it really does allow somebody to push their body to the limits and maybe beyond while doing athletic activity. That's why it's popular.
Personally, if the human body isn't already set to produce this in massive amounts, I don't see any reason to abuse myself by using it. That goes for anything--including calcium in milk. If we start giving our bodies massive amounts of something it already produces, two things happen:
1) the body decides that it doesn't need to produce the chemical/mineral in question.
2) the kidneys go into overdrive getting rid of excess stuff.
People need to give themselves a break and stop buying into every stupid idea that some near-bankrupt company comes up with for self preservation.
Laws are for people with no friends.
Seems like the point proved by the research is that now there is one more supplement that vegetarians need to take to be normal.
So the interesting question is how many IQ points would an inch of penis loss be worth?
Apparently Lecithen has the same effects in that it promotes neuro-transmitter production and enables better cell membrane transfer. However, as a side-effect, it also apparently increases libido [a lot].
What is this post supposed to mean? Is odor some corrupted american spelling?
When I'm on the Atkins diet, and eating a lot more red meat than usual, I do notice an improvement in mental clarity. Part of this is surely due to more stable blood sugar levels, but who knows ?
I don't supplement with Creatine, but I do take lots of B, C & E along with fish and borage oil and L-Carnitine.
On the the other hand, my hair loss has definitely accelerated since I've been "doing Atkins". I figure that more protein + more exercise (hiking, biking) = more testosterone, and so an acceleration of the hair loss I'm genetically predisposed to.
...if it gets me through Calculus II
Mad cow doesn't come from cow's pineal glands. It comes from farmers using ground up cows as a food source for other bovines (cows). Humans get Mad Cow disease from eating the-cow-that-ate-the-other-cow, not from melatonin, unless, by chance, the pineal gland of that cow had been infected by said spongeoform encephalitis (same could be said of eating a goat infected with anthrax though, mmmnnnnn anthrax goat).
I went to battle MC Escher, but drew a blank
This is not how it works.
Men have close to Zero invested in making a child, so best strategy is to get as many women pregnant as he can get away with
Women on the other hand has a lot invested (9 month plus rearing) so best strategy is to get the best male sperm she can.
This is how it is for Humans and most primates hence the different behavour of male and females.
As an aside "surviaval of the fittest" as Huxley said is not enough. It is survival and procreation that is needed. You can survive as long as you want, if you don't get any offspriongs it's for naught gene pool wise.
Help fight continental drift.
I don't want to insult anyone, but for me it's far more likely that lack of creatine (= vegetarian diet) is causing redused brain abilities than Creatine boosting brain power.
Doubtful. I've been a strict vegetarian since 1986, and a quasi-vegetarian for several years before that. I did not notice any coincident deterioration in memory function; I'd say if you want to preserve your memory function, the important thing is to avoid smoking too much weed - not take some weird, overpriced pills.
It's also interesting to note that India, a largely vegetarian nation, appears to be relatively geek-rich.
Oh, and there are plenty of brilliant vegetarians to hold up as examples, from Pythagoras and Plato to Tolstoy and Einstein.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Multitabs.com
You took it word for word! At least this was posted as AC and didn't give some undeserving cretin some mod points. Bastard.
a six week study where the subjects are tested on their ability to memorize and repeat a string of numbers..... hmmmmm, could it be that they just learned to be more efficient at doing that? IF so, is that necessarily attributable to the creatine? Could it not just be learning?
same with the IQ tests. take more of em' you get familiar with the types of questions..
, but my IQ is like uhhhh 7, what do i know
This isn't offtopic! It's on topic. These comments suck! All of them. In fact this is the only comment worth reading since it pretty much summarizes all the other comments into one nice little package.
It's the amazing new product, Insta-Geek! By taking this supplement regularly, you can magically turn yourself into an intelligent*, smelly nerd**! Be the, uh, envy of all your friends!
Try Insta-Geek today!
*Not guaranteed to bestow knowledge of kernel hacking.
**Not responsible for any resulting physical abuse.
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
(With apologies to Her Majesty's Knight, Sir Mix A-Lot):
I enjoy large derrieres, and I will not be false about such.
You other gentlemen can not disagree -
when a lady enters the room with a small waist and a lovely hourglass figure,
you are aroused, and seek to flatter her,
(primarily due to the size of her nether regions and their appearance in her attire).
I personally find it difficult to look away.
Oh, if only I were an artist and could paint her nude!
-T
Sheesh. I spent two hours writing a Slashdot comment about computer power supplies: Think carefully about paying more. But I don't always have time to write a complete article, and sometimes non-thinking people think that an incomplete explanation is an easy reason for attacking someone else and giving vent to their anger.
Large doses of Niacin have been studied extensively because Niacin reduces Cholesterol levels. The amount for reducing Cholesterol is 3 times what I recommended above. I've seen the research studies in medical journals.
I've taken a gram of Niacin every day for more than 20 years, with no problems. My Cholesterol level is very low.
Hey, on the plus side, maybe then the French would finally start remembering how the U.S. saved their cheese-eating-surrender-monkey selves!
3000+ comments meta-modded. 0 mod points awarded.
Lesson for other meta-suckers: Don't believe the hype!
I'm 35 and used creatine for a while. While usage did help extend workouts, giving me more strength in the long run, it ended up hurting me in the long run - my bones and joints couldn't keep up with the muscle strength and I ended up getting injured in the process. Since then, I've eliminated most suppliments, reducing them to a tub of whey and a tub of soy protein.
There is too much conflicting information on creatine. One study say its okay to take it with glutamine, some don't, or in GNC's case say they need to be taken separately but sell them together in their MRP and suggest usage with their whey protein, which contains glutamine... Go figure...
My favorite, though, was the recommended two gallons or more of water during the day. Two gallons? Some of us work for a living and drive an hour home. That plus you need eight good hours of sleep, 180 grams of protein per day, but can only absorb at most 40 grams every 4 hours...
You don't need creatine. I've found a good diet with adequate protein at each small meal then a scoop of cottage cheese before a good night's rest has been better for me than all that supplement crap...
-Phil
Shoot questions, first ask later...
If we can just harness Mark McGuire's brainpower then, imagine what we can do. He's so big, no one will tell him if he smells.
This is a perfect example of lunacy in science reporting.
A test is performed. One group has creatine in their diet, the other has none in their diet (vegetarians)
The result shows that "creatine good, no creatine bad."
The reporter then reports "more creatine better."
Besides the fact that there is absolutly no evidence whatsoever to back up that claim, the reporter also extrapolates the affect on vegetarians to non vegitarians. On top of that, a single study is taken as gospel.
What's the difference between a preliminary study and an old wive's tale? The old wive's tale has history behind it.
Big Bottom
Big Bottom
Talk about bum cakes, my girls got 'em.
Big Bottom drives me out of my mind
How could I leave this behind?
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
My comment above at the beginning of the thread about Niacin was intended to encourage Slashdot readers to do research about Niacin. It was not intended to suggest that someone would take Niacin just because they saw a short message on Slashdot.
My reply just above was meant for rtaylor, not for the parent poster; posted in error.
I tried Creatine and could tell no difference. Creatine is expensive and a few manufacturers will make millions if people start taking it to become smart. Be careful, the "medical reseach" could be an ad, not a medical study. Sometimes even the BBC is scammed.
One thing the article does not mention, is that Creatine causes you to gain some weight. If you exercise, that's fine, you can turn it into muscle.
I rarely have great faith in "I know a guy..." stories, but on the off chance that your friend really is some kind of born-again christian 'all-natural' BB who happens to be severly genetically gifted, I offer you this response: Fair enough, you caught me making overly broad generalizations. I should have qualified that statement. Of course there are a FEW exceptoins to the rule, but you must agree that _nearly_ all competition-level BBs are using gear. Heck, even the relatively modest looking guys with low bf% that you see on the cover of men's health magazine are juicing. Most people will never be able to attain that size and leanness without help. Oh and BTW, hardgainer theory is like SO outdated. It's called progress, look it up sometimes. I love Trygve's site (some funny shit on there too), but please, look at some more recent research. I hesitate to point you to www.hypertrophy-specific.com but I offer it in the spirit of generosity only. I am in no waya affilitated with them other than thinking that Bryan is one pretty smart dude. Cheers.
No need to say more.
And Adolf Hitler =P
I hate when people bring that up when I say I'm veggy.
Does a Christian soccer team even need a goalkeeper?
Most people can make their own creatine from other amino acids in the diet; creatine is non-essential. So, it is not really possible to be creatine-deficient unless you have an absorption/anabolism deficiency in respect to creatine. If you don't consume enough creatine over a period of time, normal people will make their own.
There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
Adversity builds character. No matter what you do, there are still going to be people significantly better suited to doing certain things than you are.
But let's suppose that some drug is created that improves you significantly across the board. You grow up performing just as well as the other kids, all taking the drug and all conquering math, music, and language with ease. You've reached adulthood without any physical, mental, or, lucky you, emotional inequalities, inadequacies, or setbacks-- what happens when you run into something that challenges your superman status? Your language boosted mind discovers some ancient atlantian, and can't grok it right away. Or your tripped out scientific thinking center can't quite figure out why that one gene doesn't seem to be doing what it should. Or god forbid someone close to you gets sick, and can't be cured? How do you deal?
Humans grow through adversity. It is how we learn academically and improve emotionally. Muscles unused atrophy, and knowledge unused is forgotten. There seems a troubling trend(or perhaps tradation) of taking damaging short cuts around facing difficulty. For it we either stop growing at that difficulty and become dependent on the short cut to go through the motions of living, or we become dependent on the short cut and try to go further, only to be stymied by that which we skipped over.
Don't make the relatively simple too easy. You'll only pay for it later.
*honk*
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
All the money in the world and no dating for the rest of my life? I'll pass...Its hard enough getting a date when you smell good...
As Alistair MacLean put it in _When_Eight_Bells_Toll_, "Well might they say, why stinks the goat on yonder hill, who seems to dote on chlorophyll?"
Jeff
I know two friends of mine who bodybuild heavily. Both are on HIGH protien diets and creatine.
Odor? Yes. They fart. Alot. It smells like rotten meat--which it is, really, all the protien they injest that doesn't get anything done with it. Dunno if creatine adds to the problem, but i can tell you that a high-protien diet is part of the issue.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Sigh.
No, it doesn't.
Usage Nazi here to tell you that "begs the question" does *not* mean "prompts one to ask". It refers to particular flaw in logical reasoning.
Java is the blue pill
Choose the red pill
Tryptophan was never the problem, it was more comlicated then that.
I BELIEVE we should have the right to purchase nutritional supplements. As an adult I should really be able to put just about anything I want into my body. But as a business person I SHOULD NOT be able to make untested claims about either the benifits or safely of a nutraceutical (or any other substance). And if I do I should be subject to the heavy charges. If the nutraceutical industry (a multi-billion dollar industry) wants to sell and promote medice they should be as carefully regulated as the pharmaceutical industry. Let them cure depression with St. John's wart, just be sure as hell they've done reasonalble health, safety and effectiveness studies. Otherwise, its just fancy snake oil.
Quack, quack.
While Mr. Hitler did call himself a vegetarian, he was not one according to any common definition of the word. His idea of vegetarianism included such items as chicken soup and beef broth.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Hi, troll.
Normally I wouldn't bother responding to bottom-feeders like yourself, but when the topic is fitness or diet, misinformation can lead to people hurting themselves, so I'll bite.
First off, your link was very informative. Unfortunately, I fail to see how scientific articles on malaria, breast cancer, chemotherapy or viruses has any relation to the topic at hand. Perhaps you had something more particular in mind, so please, do share when you get a chance.
As for muscle growth -- there is a great deal of literature available that all says basically the same thing. Muscle cells get their energy from ATP. When ATP is exhausted (for instance, by working out), your muscles fatigue. When you continue to stress them, you tear the aactin/myosin filaments at their weakest link. During rest, your body repairs the damage in a manner analogous to scar tissue forming over a wound, so that the next time you perform the same action, your body will be less susceptible to injury.
So listen, 7-Vodka (195504), do yourself a favor: stop trolling discussion boards, stop convincing yourself there's some get-strong-quick method to building muscles that doesn't require exercise, and pick up some weights. Your body will thank you.
PS: So with all that steak and kidney pie, why aren't the brits smarter?
PPS: Is this proof that we are meant to be meat eaters?
These studies should not be slashdotted, they provide such a narrow perspective on some medical minutiae that, without the proper contextual info, and the references to the other (probably dozens) of studies on the exact same topic that showed either no effect or conflicting effects, leads consumers to make assumptions that they shouldn't be making, and that could seriously injure them. This one is probably safe, but have you done your research?
Where do you get vegetarian creatinine from?
for the body odor?
Because of this, there is a scary increase in heart disease amongst Indians that are adopting this more 'western' diet. It would be interesting to see how the plot would look if you tracked rise of tech jobs versus meat consumption. Perhaps the 'new' Indian diet is supplying more creatine, explaining the country's newfound ability to do good tech work? (tongue planted firmly in cheek)
I think, therefore I stink!
The difference isn't what they do to the body, it's the context in which they're used. A mental enhancer would be forbidden to quiz show contestants just like a muscle enhancer would be forbidden to athletes. That's because those environments are a competition.
University is a different situation. Although there are competitive aspects, that's simply because businesses that hire university graduates want the best. If you have someone naturally smart versus someone boosted through some kind of artificial means, if the person boosted by artificial means is better at the job, then they're the one one should get it. More broadly, the point of university and jobs isn't to highlight differences in people's natural abilities like a competitive sport, but is rather to advance some goal: invention, research, etc. That goal can be furthered by performance enhancement.
The downside is that most of this kind of thing is highly untested for long-term sideeffects. If someone could put in front of me a product which was used for, say, 50 years without major sideeffects from those taking it, and with visible gains in mental performance, I'd have no qualms in taking it. Just as if someone came up with a proven and tested drug that would improve eyesight or hearing or increase my lifespan.
NichG
During my stint as a collegiate shotputter and hammer thrower I took creatine. I was on a fairly high dosage of the stuff for 4 years (I took summers off and cycled my dosage over the course of the year.)
;) )
I really can't say whether or not it improved my memory function or intelligence level. I got my Bachelors degree, but didn't really put much effort into getting good grades. Maybe I didn't have to try very hard to get by? I do have an exceptional memory, but I would guess that to be more genetic than from taking creatine. Even the study cited above stated the effects were only in the short term.
It did produce some pretty bad gastrointestinal effects initially, but after being on it for 3-4 weeks that pretty much goes away. It did help my performance athletically. (But it would be hard to quantify exactly how much, I was a shotputter, not a scientist
Hard to comment on this without a serious study about the long term effects. But as to getting a boost from eating meat, well, the amount of creatine that occurs natually in meat is extremely low. An average dose of creatine is the equivalent of POUNDS (or kilos) of raw beef. Maybe some of you are eating that much meat, but not me.
Traxman
This explains why so many of the vegetarians I've met are such fucking idiots!
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
Jewish parents ask themselves that all the time. If they circumcize their son, that son will be welcomed into a community that will send him to the best university money can buy.
Dr. Caroline Rea??? Come on, nobody watches her daytime crap talk show, why should we listen to her findings on Creatine? ;)
I bought a bottle when I was young, in University, and thought it would help me in working out. I'm also into computers a lot, but not quite the Linux hacker, or have C.Sc. behind my name on business cards.
Anyhow, also in University a friend of mine introduced me to Cocaine, so I tried it once with the wariness to never use it again like it was the One Ring.
When on Creatine and Cocaine, I got almost the same feeling of having a lot of quick energy and awareness, I find them quite similar, only the Creatine gave me a bit of a gut cramp, and the Coca didn't, but a very similar feeling to it.
Specifically, I'm a vegetarian, and don't want to be adding 5 grams of powdered cow liver (sic) to my juice every morning.
"Vegetarians taste better"
too many political problems testing on rabits so they had to do the next best thing.
I used creating for a year in college. From my experience it increases your strength 50% over natural levels, but takes off about 20% of your mental speed. Since using my mind pays the bills, I don't use it no more. Using vegetarians, IMHO skewed the results in favour of creatine.
the dietary supplement creatine - a natural compound found in muscle tissue - can improve not only your athletic performance, but also your intelligence and memory. One of the side effects, however, is an unpleasant body odour.
Become a geek. You get the improve in intelligence and memory along with the unlpeasant body odour. One of the side effects, however, is a decrease in your athletic performance.
1 Earth is warming, 2 It's us, 3 it's royally bad, 4 we need to take action NOW
Most of the people I know on creatine are well below average intelligence... I guess that makes me feel good - knowing that even with their intelligence enhanced, they're still as smart as a fence-post. I loath jocks.
You can overdose on the fat solulable vitamin: A, D, E, K. Vitamins aren't perfectly safe.
Here's some LD/50 values for comparison
Vitamin A 300 mg/Kg (injected monkeys)
Caffine 192 mg/Kg (oral rats)
Curare 270 mg/Kg (oral rat)
Why do all these people who use steroids sound/act/look so stupid if it increases brainpower?
;).
I think its all a relative thing
True. However, Niacin is water soluble. I stand by what I said in my earlier 3 posts in this thread. Niacin should be investigated by people interested in becoming more mentally sharp.
Oh well, two out of three ain't bad. :)
Q.
Insert Signature Here
I have a cousin who goes through cycles of using creatine and other nutritional supplements as a part of his fitness regimen, virtually everytime he is taking creatine (typically 2-3 months after he starts) he breaks up with his girlfriend.
He moves out, starts dating, stops working out as much, stops taking supplements and shortly thereafter gets back together with her.
The creating smartens him up, and when it is out of his system, he goes right back to the controlling siren. He has done this approx 3 times over the past two years.
Guess why I'm anonymous for this one?
"Doubtful. I've been a strict vegetarian since 1986, and a quasi-vegetarian for several years before that. I did not notice any coincident deterioration in memory function"
People suffering from Alzheimers do not notice anything wrong either. Cheers.
I have a cousin who cycles the use of creatine as a part of his fitness regimen. Over the course of the past 2 years I have noticed a pattern.
Three months or so after he begins using creatine, he smartens up and realizes how controlling his girlfriend is and it is unacceptable to him, they break up. He moves out, starts dating, stops working out, stops taking supplements. One to two months later, when the supplements are out of his system, he makes up with his girlfriend and they get back together.
Over the past 2 years I have watched this happen several times, now I know why. Next time, I'll just have to make sure he keeps taking the creatine during the break up period.
Guess why I'm anonymous for this one?
What this study really shows is that vegetarians have had their brain power reduced to the level of fuzzy bunnies due to poor diet. Taking creatine gives them boosts that bring them up to normal operating levels of omniverous humans. Jurrasic Park taught us that carnivors are smarter then omnivorous humans, although some can't see you if you don't move. Correlate that with Silence of the Lambs, where a human cannibal was super genius. However the people in Soylent Green took forever to figure out the obvious so processing method must remove some vital nutrient from the meat.
Therefore if we compare the missing components of soylent green with raw humans, we should be able to come up with a supplement for super brainy people. Combine these new findings to with the law of "People used to be cavemen, and that's why guys are strong and girls should clean the house", we would suuggest that smarter creatures eat dumber ones, even within their own species. This research would be used to support a new government initiative to eliminate welfare and use the poor as feed for our schools.
And some people think red meat is bad for you.
Dispite what you may think after reading this post, I am not a vegetarian.
Obi-Wan to Vader:
Strike me down, and my penis will become larger than you can ever imagine!
Maybe she was talking about her own boobs, which do seem to shrink as a result of working out and body-building :o)
Sigged!
The article mentions that creatine causes unpleasant body odor. I don't buy it. I used creatine for months at a time during a period in my life when I was weight training 5 days a week for about 1.5 hours a day. I always found that bathing after workouts resolved any possible malodorous problems.
On the other hand, I've been taking flax seed oil pills since having Lasik surgery about 4 months ago to improve my tear composition and relieve dry eyes, and *that* stuff will cause you to get a bit aromatic. Again, bathing regularly is key.
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
I take creatine for my gym work outs, and yes I am a geek, and yes I also pull the chicks with my fantastic body. I am fully qualified when I tell people this because I am a pharmacist.
Forget the body odour side effect that's cosmetic and the chicks don't seem to care.
What you do need to know is that creatine need to be cycled. By that I mean take creatine at a recommended dose for a maximum of SIX weeks (ideally only for four weeks), then stop it for two to four weeks. Then you can start taking your creatine again.
What happens is that creatine will retain water in your body, and continued chronic use will lead to kidney failure. Oh yeah people with a history or family history of kidney failure should avoid creatine as well.
"I just can't sit while people are saying nonsense in a meeting without saying it's nonsense" J Watson, Sci Am 288:(4)51
Women were meant to look like women. I have never understood men who like the "twiggy" look. I look at those women and think, "Eat a cheeseburger!" Women were not meant to look like 12 year old boys. I want (and have for that matter) a woman with breats and a shapely woman's rearend. Yes, the shape has changed some with our 3 kids, but that just makes her sexier knowing that she has moved from sex kitten to a fertility Godess! =) Besides, it is a whole different level of love to look into the eyes of your kids and see their mom's loving eyes looking back it you. Long story short, I will take a woman with a shapely figure but a tummy that is not perfectly flat over a stick figure woman anyday.
and I rarely have faith in people who make broad generalizations. Believe what you will. Oh and it's not I know a guy, it's more like I was best friends with/trained with a guy.
I've seen HST routines, done them for a bit before and no, I don't like them. Sorry, it's not my thing. It's called a "different opinion" look it up sometime. Just because a theory is more recent doesn't mean it's correct. FYI you sound like a valley girl by the way you type.
Touche.
It is an outdated training methodology, however. You can like it, use it, or whatever, but that doesn't make it any less outdated, and in many cases, wrong. It's your choice really, and I'm not trying to take that away from you, just trying to suggest that you take a look at some of the newer research that is going on. HST isn't the be-all and the end-all either, shit I'm sure it will be considered to be outdated and operating under false assumptions in the future, but still... that's evolution, you know?
I liked the valley girl dig though, probably the best part of your whole response. It's not like I was trying to come across as all superior or anything, I should have included a smiley at the end.
Maybe your friend is all natural, but odds are against it. Do you think he would tell you if he was juicing? How do you think that kind of admission from him would affect your relationship with him? Would you still hold him in such high regard if he was juicing? Do you see where I'm going with this? Maybe he doesn't want to disappoint you.
That fad was really big in France, mint chewing gum is still conventionally colored green and called "chlorophyll flavour" over there.
Thanks for the compliment on the dig. I knew all those years of usenet posting would pay off sometime. LOL.
:)
I buy the fact that he was all natural. I knew him through high school and the start of college, and he didn't even drink or smoke pot. I couldn't see him using any kind of drug. Of course you aren't with someone 24/7, so you never know. When we were in high school I was with him almost 24/7 I know he definaly wasn't then unless he did it before bed.
He wouldn't have had any problem telling me if he was. And I never held him in that high of a regard anyway. Lifting weights doesn't impress me much..the women seem to like it though
Hell, when I was a kid I got a bad burn on my calves from the exhaust of my uncle's motorcycle. My gradmother put olive oil directly on the burns and on top of that flour. Yes, flour. I can no longer make out that burn...
Cool, fair enough. Never meant to say it was impossible. Cheers.