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G5 PowerBook "Challenge"
CarlBenda writes "MacWorld/UK has some interesting quotes from Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of Hardware Engineering at Apple concerning the possibility of a G5 powerbook. He's said that a G5 powerbook is "an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook". Start saving your money."
That's right. Slashdot has implemented the new policy of denying first post to the trolls by creating an artificially generated Anonymous Coward comment. Enjoy!
first post!
frist post!
fost prist!
buwahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
G5 PowerBook 'a challenge'
Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of Hardware Engineering at Apple, spoke to Macworld UK about the Apple G5. While declining to comment on unannounced products, he did concede that the possibility of a G5 PowerBook was simply "an issue of good, solid engineering".
He made it clear, however, that the current crop of G5 processors are designed for desktop machines, and a cooler-running version of the processor would be needed for a PowerBook. But he did point to the fact that a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook.
Rubinstein also spoke of the capabilities of the G5 processor. He suggested that improving the performance of software to take advantage of the new powerful processor should be relatively easy. The tools Apple provides to developers can help them find the parts of their applications that would benefit most from recompiling with the G5 in mind. Some developers claim to have doubled the performance of their programs using these tools.
Ken Bereskin was also on hand to reveal some more details of the upcoming Panther release of OS X. Like previous versions of OS X, PDF is an integral part of the operating system. But Panther will allow specific settings such as PDF/X, a standard for PDF for print. Panther will also support Dolby Digital 5.1 sound when used with the G5 optical audio output.
CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
Time to start a new trend... Woohoo... Second Post!
Okay... Boot from gentoo CD...
let's get a real os on this awesome piece of hardware.
Karma is like sex. I can't remember the last time I had either of them.
The "PowerBooks are coming next Tuesday" rumors were more frequent on rumor sites than SCO stories on Slashdot.
A G5 PowerBook.. not bad for a company that has been dying for 20+ years according to the trolls.
Trolling is a art,
The DP G5 has Nine fans in it. I believe the 17" PB has two. That's a little bit of work.
Best read in good ol' Monaco 9 point.
BUT CAN IT RUN LINUX????
Start saving your money.
Is that the challenge? To save enough money to buy a Mac? That is going to be tough.
- The G5 processor runs really hot
- Notebooks don't like heat
- It'll be tough to get the G5 in a PowerBook
How did this made the front page?Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
You know they wouldn't have chosen it if they couldn't make a good laptop with it.
Now, they'd better make sure they sort out that heat problem that the current 12" G4 Powerbooks suffer from.
Um, am I the only one who doesn't get this article.. basically he says:
1. it's possible
2. it's going to take good engineering
3. Here are some details about OS X
Not much of an article. I got all excited thinking they were on the edge of making a G5 powerbook but I feel slighted now.
start saving your hydrogen fuel cells to power the notebooks. Duracell lasts 10^-308 seconds on "Power Save" mode.
Start saving your money
cause it's gonna cost a butt-load....
!(^((ri)|(mp))aa$)
Let's have one with a Wankel engine! :-)
Stick Men
"With the new Powerbook G5, you'll never find your hands cramping up during long typing sessions again! The CPU/hand warmer keeps you going during even the coldest of temperatures!"
Kick in the Head
By the time the G5 Powerbooks come out, I think I might be able to actually afford a Macintosh laptop system. Here in Canada, the Powerbooks are at least $2300, and the iBooks are at least $1400. Right now, this is not feasible. But, by the time the cooling system works properly, I might be able to scrape up the thousands of dollars required.
I do applaud Apple for not releasing information on products that it is unsure about, including these G5 laptops. They have strongly hinted in the article that they are looking at it, but they did not make any promises as to when it will be released. This way, they are not forced to rush production which would result in an inferior product. They are going to make sure they have quality over timeframe, which is something some other software companies should learn. Before you set a release date, get a demo/prototype done, and do at least a minimal level of testing!
Given that God is infinite, and the Universe is also infinite, would you like some toast?
no one wants to hack it
I, for one, welcome our new G5 overlords!
Karma is like sex. I can't remember the last time I had either of them.
I'm a very happy Apple user having switched a little under half a year ago. But this is such a non-story it shouldn't have even been posted here. There are already CPUs in laptops today that can give the G5 a run for its money. They may not have great battery life, but heat issues have been taken care of. There's nothing unique about the G5 that makes it any more difficult to get into a laptop than any other CPU design. That Apple is talking about a G5 laptop as if it's a big technical deal has me worried. The newly released Powerbooks are already up to half as slow as their Centrino counterparts which sport similar or better battery life. Perhaps the G5 Powerbook won't see the light of day until next fall when the G4 Powerbook will be tremendously outclassed.
I got a +5, Troll
Bow down and worship my polysyllabilic nonsequitur!!!!
pleeeeeease?!!!!
Actually, I don't smell them (as in actively seek them out and sniff them -- that's someone else's job), but I ask rhetorically because if previous Apple laptop experience can be any guide, I expect to see more "Laptop burns man's crotch" stories. I saw one or two with their last generation.
As hot as the G4 PowerBooks get, they'll need some hellacious cooling on these things. Maybe they'll come with a string you can use to whirl the PB around your head, like a bullroarer. If it makes that cool sound, it'll be great.
I drank what? -- Socrates
...to First Post!
The desktop Power Mac G5 already does processor cycling in order to keep the noise/temperature/performance balance at an optimal level. Clearly a similar function will be used in the PowerBook G5, just as nearly every Wintel notebook on the market today does.
I sold a Vaio R505 that would whine up and down loudly depending on whether you were scrolling through a web page or just sitting there reading it. I just couldn't take it anymore. When it comes to choosing performance or noise level, I usually choose to have a quieter machine. But hopefully Apple, unlike Sony, will allow an easy way to control which gets priority.
5. Profit!!!
--- You know it's bad when
bash-2.05a$ fortune
bash: fortune: command not found
It was announced today that a class action group of 100 users filed a suit agains Slashdot.com today because they became gay after being exposed to what has been called "the Slashdot Gay Conspiracy."
Experts warn that even exposure to the blatantly homomsexual urges of Rob "Taco" Malda can cause latant gay urges to surface.
Malda commented to reporters: "We like to pull our schlongs... so sue us.. oops, I guess they did."
> Panther will also support Dolby Digital 5.1 sound when used with the G5 optical audio output.
I notice the $350 set of 5.1 speakers they're offering at the Apple Store to go along with the G5 machines, but does anyone know of any optical-connecting 2.1 speakers that might cost a bit less? I have no need for 5.1 sound, and 2.1 would be more than sufficient, but I'd like to take advantage of the new optical connections...
He's said that a G5 powerbook is "an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook".
Well, yeah! Have any of you seen the heat sinks in the G5? They are absolutely huge making it very difficult to get enough cooling into a tiny space with the current chips. Furthermore, the heat sink size is combined with a rather clever cooling arrangment in the G5 case making for a quiet environment. Even going back to the original G4's the heat sinks were nowhere near the size of the G5's, so we are going to need a G5 chip with much lower heat and power requirements if portable configurations are going to be possible. Dual G4's in laptops though are not out of the question.....
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
The damn 800mhz G4 Powerbook gets so hot already, that it qualifies as "burning" for me. I wouldn't touch the the top row of buttons nor the underside on a working G4 Powerbook.
I'm willing to bet that they can't get a G5 in there without significantly reducing the clock speed or without using some new cooling technology. Heatpipes anyone?
they want to make a g5 powerbook but the current chips are too hot.
:D
solution: cooling??!??!?!?
seriously, not a lot to discuss. the cool part of that article is the info that panther will run dolby 5.1 out the optical port. that's very intriguing for music makers/sound engineers and people who watch a lot of movies on the comp. i'd definitely like to hear more about that.
Powerbook put in YOU!
... then they aren't working on anything remotely resembling a product. If they were they'd be keeping very quiet about it all. This article has the tone of GM execs talking about flying cars.
___
Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
> As hot as the G4 PowerBooks get, they'll need some
> hellacious cooling on these things.
While I realize that the parent post is a joke, this is a fairly common misconception I figured should be addressed eventually.
The reason why PowerBook G4 systems get hot tends to be the hard drive and has little (if anything) to do with the processor (which runs at a much lower temperature than anything Intel has offered in years).
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
grub is also a karmawhore (and not funny to boot). Grow a clue and shove it up your ass up there with your mother's dildo collection!
I like my Compaq X1000 just fine thank you. 6.5 Lbs. 15.4 screen. 1.5" thick. A G4 chaser for sure, but does anyone really need the power of a G5 in a notebook?
Remember, posting in bold can be construed as screaming. There is no need to scream.
CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
Taco IS IS IS IS the GOATSEX GUY!!
I'd love to work for a company like Apple that still believes in good, solid engineering.
"an issue of good, solid engineering" and that "a few years ago, nobody thought it would be possible to get a G4 processor in a PowerBook"
Sounds like...."One day, computers will only take up one room in a house and cost under $100,000" the old Popular Science quote.
can't you just imagine a beowulf cluster of G5 Powerbooks?
..."
err, maybe that should be "imagine a cluster of imaginary G5 Powerbooks".
or maybe, "imagine how much heat your lap would be subjected to with a cluster of
ahh, nevermind...
grub has been trying to karmawhore lately with serious comments. Call me an asshat, will you? How about you pull you head out of Hemos' rectum and take a look around, cockbite!
MORON
They could make one with a G5 tomorrow. But, it would only be maybe a little over 1GHz (10-15 watt range for the G5)*. That is certainly doable in a laptop and Apple has made them in that power range before. Ufortunately, the clock speed won't be any higher than the G4 and you wouldn't be able to take advantage of huge amounts of RAM (that won't happen for years). So, from a marketing perspective the G4 is still an easier sell.
People just assume that G5 consumes this enormous amount of power because of all the fans in the G5 desktop. This isn't true. Even the 2G takes only about 40 watts or so. One P4 3G takes in the range of 80 watts of power. All of the extra G5 fans are to make the cooling quieter.
*note that in the PC world 20-30 watt peak power consumption has been considered useable in a laptop.
We can only start to hold our collective breaths (for a significant time) until IBM kinda announces a G5 revision that's suspiciously low-power and is much cooler (surely helped with some of the latest IBM fab breakthroughs). They might or might not talk the same Moto gibberish of aiming at the embedded market, blah blah.
Only then Rubinstein and his faeries can reasonably start to work their magic. Supposedly, once bi'blue hints them they can start engineering the wondruous shrinkage of the original G5 motherboard without actually having a G5' sample. After that heroic feat, that industrial design archangel and his minions will come down and design yet another striking enclosure...
By then, a couple of revisions of the motherboard will have shipped, as well as a couple of G5 tower speed bumps. Besides, one might expect that preceding the mobile G5 we will see the infamous speedy G3+Altivec (IBM's G4) that bi'blue is secretly eager to hurl into Motto's face, to prove their incompetence.
My two eurocents. You can safely spend your money now
dani++
...OS X 10.3 to ship preinstalled.
.1, .1 to .2, 9 to any 10.x) upgrades to work on their G4s.
About that time the major quirks will be worked out of the G5 desktop hardware and it'll be safe to run Panther on. I've heard many stories (vocal minority, yada yada) with bad endings about people trying to get OS X (10.0 to
I'm drooling heavily over the dual-G5, but I'm not going to buy it without the new OS.
I really hate upgrading operating systems. It's a safe bet you'll have a smoother experience with the new software by just installing it from scratch.
Or better yet, having the manufacturer install it for you.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
Oddly this is the same number of worldwide SCO supporters, go figure...
trying to be serious is whoring? fag.
Do not use laptop while nude or Mr. Pecker will get burned, like this d00d
This is a test. This is a test of the emergency sig system. This has been only a test.
WHEEE!!! Apple sucks!!!
At least thats what they could say and just do what IBM has done with their Thinkpad MAMOTH series (the ones that are like 8lbs, but have a real P4 in them)
Either way I think their wide screen idea (17" laptop) is fucking HUGE but very sexy and easy on the eyes.
Ave Molech Setting
While putting the current .13 micron G5 in a laptop would be hard, it's not impossible. The chip itself is hot, but at lower speeds, it's not particularly hot. Desktop P4's are being put in to laptops, and those do upwards of 90wts of heat(with Prescott set to surpass 100wts), which makes for a hot laptop, but isn't impossible, as it results in a powerful "desktop replacement" machine.
The reason we're not seeing a PB G5 is because the kind of "desktop replacements" being made out of P4's are unreasonable as far as Apple's concerned. Apple wants something sleek, and they're willing to wait for it. Still, compared to the P4, the G5 is far less of a challenge to implement in to a laptop.
your mom gives good head when she takes her teeth out. just last night she proceeded to "gum me clean" after I fucked her wrinkly ass with no lube exept for the shit from her shit bag. I give your mom a 7/10.
Being serious on slashdot is the gh3yest thing evAr!!!
Oh, and by the way, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference where the heat is coming from -- in a laptop things are rather close together, if you didn't notice already, and if one component is severely overheated it's likely to affect the other components as well.
but it can still compile KDE3 in a few minutes.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
not as gh4y as fucking your dog up the ass and getting him to lick the sp00g3 off you're dick
Okay. So Apple likes taunting that they have the largest monitor available on laptops. Well, they did. I could have sworn I saw a few more 17" laptop monitors. When are we going to see the Powerbook with a 23" display? And maybe they could make the keyboard even smaller so the screen looks bigger! (Notice the current 17" still has that mashed up keyboard, why the hell couldn't they have made a normal sized keyboard!? It's real nice they have stereo in a 12" space, and I really enjoy typing on a midget keyboard.
This is good stuff guys. Pretty much proves what the mental and emotional age of the average /. poster really is... Hordes of little shits that scream "FAG!" at the first sign of miscommunication. Keep it up, you'll single handedly destroy linux like this!
If they were like, "the G5 Powerbooks will be coming out in 6 months", they would have a hard time selling any full-priced G4 laptops. So they wait as long as possible. It's the same reason car companies disguise their prototypes.
I bought a Powerbook 12" right before they announced additional price cuts for education users back in May... but if they announced it too early, it hurts sales. Of course, I bought 2nd gen iPod for 50% off after the 3rd gen ones came out, so when knowledge is out their, buyers can win - but then apple loses.
I have blog like everyone else
I am not sure that my Performa was cool.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Then leave my dog alone you FAG!
Run fluxbox.
We do have X11, you know.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
The hardware is too nice to run Linux.
I was already saving for a G4 powerbook. Now I have to start saving for a G5 powerbook. At this rate I will own a powerbook when the sun is a cold, dark lump of coal. Great business model, Apple.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Remember, no-one has said that we'll see the Desktop G5 processor (a PowerPC 970) in a portable form-factor. Just like we never, ever saw the first Desktop G4's processor (a PowerPC 7400) in a PowerBook. What the portables got were more power efficient, less hot chips -- like the PowerPC 7410, which popped up in the first titanium PowerBooks.
Since Apple can still call these revised chips "G4", "G5", etc, it may seem like they've accomplished this incredible engineering feat in getting the big ol' chip inside that teeny case -- but the first breakthrough is the improved processor, over at Moto or IBM. They still have thier work cut out for them, but at least Apple doesn't need to ring the entire case with fans...
What I'm really looking forward to is, apparently IBM is working on adding an AltiVec-compatible SIMD unit to the G3 processor, and ramping up the clock speed. A couple of those would make a sweet laptop.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
matth@chilitech.net
you say that becuase your a fag and you know it, fag
Back in the Woz days, Apple was an engineering company. Jobs turned them into a marketing outfit. Sure, they make okay computers; but their success has more to do with maintaining the "we're cool and different" facade. Just check out the zillion posts from Apple advocates. ( And see how fast they shoot down anything that doesn't toe the party line !! )
your the fag that owns the dog, FAG
This is exactly right. Apple whould reward Moto's record of reliability in delivering the chips, and their research investments in advancing the chip design. (sarcasm)
Reward them by dropping moto entirely and just using the IBM stuff.
God knows the chip is probably faster than the standard G4 and cooler to boot.
Come on Apple, give me a nice power-sipping G3 in my next powerbook... Please! You can even clock it up to 1+ ghz if you want...
Cuchullain
"If sharing a thing in no way diminishes it, it is not rightly owned if it is not shared." -St. Augustine
Would that be the same "good solid engineering" that produced the extremely overpriced TiBook, which had trouble with airport range due to the materials it was built with, the same engineering that flaking body paint?..
Would that be the same engineering that allows for body and hinge fractures?
Wow, thats some damn good engineering!
There is no "one-size-fits-all" for laptops. Different users have different needs. A road warrior who is flying 2 or 3 times a week probably wants as lightweight a machine as he can get away with. And he is will to trade screen size, processor speed, and keyboard comfort for a few less pounds to drag through the airport.
Other people like a laptop because they can carry it from their desk to the conference room easily. They wouldn't care if it weighed 20 pounds, they want a full desktop replacement that is portable enough to move around the office and be carried home occassionally.
shuddup you fucking ass-fucking fucking cock-cobbling fucking
Quit stalking the puppies at the pet store, FAG!
just becuase you fuck the dogs at the pet store with a cat hanging out of yoru ass by its head doesnt make you leet, FAG
Most all laptop users want a small, light-weight, cool (even after running all day) and semi-powerful laptop that has a good battery life. G5's are great procs, but they are *far* from meeting the above requirments that *most all* laptop users want. They are too hot, use too much power and too big at present... give them a few years.
The G4 has a lot of life left when it comes to portable computing.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
FAG!
ya you'd like to have billy gates fist your ass with his fucking forearm so you'd look like goatsecx guy. fucking fag, that probably is you, FAG!
I went to the local CompUSA where they leave them on all day running some screensaver, and felt both the 12" Powerbook and the 12" iBook. There was a VERY noticable difference. The iBook seems significantly cooler than the 12" Powerbook and the 15" TiBook was cold (Since the case doesn't transfer heat well through the casing).
As a laptop user my #1 priority is being able to use it comfortably. The Aluminum Powerbook was too hot (12"), the 17" was tolerable, and the 15" Titanium was a dream (paint chips are not acceptable either). So I chose to wait for the new Al 15" and when my local CompUSA eventually has one on display (3-4 months from now) I'll see if it's cool enough. I bought a 900MHz iBook instead and it stays relatively cool. Hell maybe I'll just wait another year and hope for the G5 powerbooks.
I'd rather have these things than a hot laptop:
Less speed (Apple already has this covered, My PIII from 2 1/2 years ago is 1.2GHz)
More Fans/Noise
Less attractive case (design is for girls, I'll take ugly and cool over cute and hot every day).
Larger/heavier case.
Until then, I'll make do with my 12" iBook. It's a G4 chaser, too, but at least it's in the same league.
When someone else has a laptop with sub-two-second wake-from-sleep, that only needs rebooting after major system updates, runs all my favorite Un*x tools, and lets me run Microsoft junk when I must, I'll look into it.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
it's been what, two days since the 15 inch Powerbook that everyone was begging for was released and we've already moved on to G5 Powerbooks? At least let the dust settle.
Since you seem to accept that roadmaps are often works of fiction, why not make up your own roadmap? Hmm, the interval between previous generations of iPods was x, so I project the next revision will be in the month of y. Then, if you delay a purchase after looking at your roadmap, you will be happy if the roadmap was accurate and new models arrived when you projected them. And if your roadmap was inaccurate, you have only yourself to blame.
If Apple published a roadmap that they didn't live up to, everybody would be unhappy about it. And there are lots of reasons why they might not introduce new models by the projected date. A manufacturer always incurs additional costs in introducing a new model so they would prefer to keep selling the old model as long as they can. If the old model is still selling well, why bother introducing a new model at all?
Wouldn't SCO not suing anyone new merit the front page?
*honk*
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
It will be water cooled. And too keep the water cool in such a short circulatory path, there will be a garden hose attachment on the side.
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
And while I am at it saving money. I think I am going to put the money into Andover stock :)
The only thing stopping me going out and buying a G5 right now is the fact that it only has one CD/DVD drive bay. I had a go on one at the week-end, and nearly drooled on the floor.
On a slightly different train of thought: I'd like to see a heat comparison between the 4200 rpm drives to the 5400 rpm drives? You can't get the 5400 on the 12", but I wonder what heat difference it makes on the 15".
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
I'm writing this reply on a Blue & White G3 450 running 10.3 (7B59). If it'll run on this old hog, and my G4 Cube at home, I'd say it pretty close to shipping. And my Dual Gig G4 runs 10.2.6 just fine, even with incremental upgrades from it's original install of 10.1. Anybody want to float me the cash so I can test Panther on a Dual G5?
Never pet a burning dog.
After about 10 minutes of running any cpu-intensive activity, my PB 17" is typically between 130 degrees and 140- the fan kicks in around 140, shuts off at 130. It's been sitting on my desk all day doing next to nothing(I've occasionally queued up some mp3s) and it's at 110.3 according to Temperature Monitor.
Using it on my lap, say, while on the couch, with any kind of activity, and it'll quickly get rather warm. Playing a movie or AVI file is an excellent way to do this. It gets uncomfortable within a half hour easily.
Oh, and putting a CDROM in and using it for about 5 minutes will cause the OTHER half of the powerbook to get hot and THAT fan to switch on.
Sorry, but anyone who says "my laptop doesn't run hot!" doesn't use their laptop very intensively.
Please help metamoderate.
what a troll. I am a very happy former Windows user who owns a 12" pb. The whole package (hardware, apps and OS) makes this better than any other windows platform out there. Any real switcher can tell you this.
Is finding the right mouse button so I can right click and "Save Picture As..."
---
Bell Labs Unix -- Reach out and grep someone.
The new PowerBook G5: The fastest laptop IN THE UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Asbestos iPants?
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
I've been using a g4 400mhz powerbook with gentooppc for a couple of years(osx is way too slow), I must say that I love it, it's challeging sometimes to get a certain thing working on a ppc and the design unmatched. .2 seconds, probably the whole room will spontaniously lit.
When I watch a movie in bed with my girlfriend none of us wants to put the laptop on the lap, because of the amount of heat it produces, the amount of pain it produces is based on the amount of frames it decodes I guess.
I don't even want to think about what will happen if I put a g5 2ghz machine on my lap for more than
A decently configured G4 PowerBook is $2599. That's as much as a G5 desktop already. I fully expect G5 PowerBooks to start at $2999 and extend past $4000.
People just assume that G5 consumes this enormous amount of power because of all the fans in the G5 desktop. This isn't true. Even the 2G takes only about 40 watts or so. One P4 3G takes in the range of 80 watts of power. All of the extra G5 fans are to make the cooling quieter.
I'm glad to see someone finally point this out. The exact wattage number is 46.7 watts for the 2 GHz PowerPC 970 "G5" running at full speed (2GHz CPU and a 2:1 multipler for a 1 GHz FSB).
A 2.4 GHz P4 (400 MHz FSB) uses 62 watts, newer P4s use even more. Prescott is expected to use 100 - 105 watts. (And this is totally ignoring the even further power needs of the "extreme" edition with its added transistors for on-die L3 cache)
Apple has always seemed to overengineer the heatsinks and fans in their desktop model, for about as long as I can remember. Oddly, many of the PowerBooks use a much different "transfer the heat from the CPU, Chipset, and GPU right to the bottom of the case" cooling method.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/c anadastore.woa/71403/wo/uF7R5EzF1oGh3hxnEIpwsRr5vN I/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.1.1.1.0.0.1.0
Given that Microsoft's favorite method of innovating is to mimic whatever Apple does, it seems reasonable for Apple to hold its cards close to its vest.
MHz-for-MHz, the G5 is a cooler processor than the G4---reportedly about 20W at 1.2 GHz, compared to 20W for a 1 GHz 7455.
True, but running at full speed (2 GHz CPU and a 2:1 multipler for 1 GHz FSB), the PowerPC 970 "G5" consumes 46.6 watts.
(To compare, a 2.4 GHz Northwood Pentium 4 uses 62 watts, newer P4s use even more. Prescott is expected to use 100-105 watts). ((And this is totally ignoring the even further power needs of the "extreme" edition with its added transistors for on-die L3 cache))
I have an Intel Mobile P4 2.6ghz laptop (Dell i8500). Cooling doesn't seem to be a big problem. I thought PowerPC chips were supposed to be cooler and faster and more effecient and more nifty than Intel chips. Maybe they need to run them through the Steve Jobs Distortion Field again.
This may very well be the stepping stone we need to finally bridge the laptop/stove gap.
With the heat put out from this bad boy, you'll be able to cook a meal within the confines of your cubicle WHILE remaining productive. Talk your co-workers into buying one and everyday lunch can be a cookout.
I'll take two!
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
>>"...for girls, I'll take ugly and cool over cute and hot every
>>day)."
>De gustibus non est disputandum.
Translation: Of [matters of]taste, there is no arguing, "There's no accounting for taste"
Sig removed because it was obnoxious
I hate their commercials with claims like "the most powerful personal computer in the world". Maybe they should meet some of the people I know who like to see how many processors & how much ram they can fit in their full size tower running the top of the line everything.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
I hope that apple will soon discover that a mouse can have more than a single button...
Those trackpads with only a button are a pain under *nix
Sorry, number 4 goes to NeXT (you know, the os OS X is based on?)
Linux is dying on its own.
I own a 15" and a 17" and there is a HUGE heat difference. I've got to think a G5 will melt glass unless the good people at Apple can work miracles.
I use the 17" PB to make mirowave popcorn at the end of the day. Run more than 3 apps and browse a while on Slashdot and mmmmmmm. Buttery goodness. That's multitasking.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
Youve never used the first G4 Powerbooks, have you?
Apple keeps publishing benchmarks that compare the G5 to a Pentium 4. I can appreciate that Apple is trying to woo the pc crowd but these figures don't really interest me.
I am already an owner of a G4, and I don't want to purchase a G5 until I know that it's worth the money. How much faster is it? 25%? 50%? I usually don't upgrade until I can double performance for the same amount of money as what I paid for my current computer.
Does anyone know where any G4 vs. G5 specs are posted?
Apple should save themselves some money and thereby save us some money by just using a better chip. This kernel should be able to run on a g-d damn Sega Dreamcast so why not Transmeta or an AMD laptop chip, hell why not a strong Arm variant.
Apple's chip selection is terrible. They blew it on the Exponential 704. They blew it by using Motorola. They blew it on the G5 (they should have gone right to the Power4 for the money they charge...) Apple needs to resign themselves to the fact that they make a nice interface for Unix and a pretty box. There is no need to do EVERYTHING from scratch. No Mac Nazi is going to stop shelling out for gorgeous thin 17" Laptops because they come with a non-PowerPC processor.
Yeah start saving money but for that sweet P4 Extreme Edition coming soon, not for a laptop that's nothing more than an overpriced toy!
I must admit that if you actually knew about microprocessor design, looking at the diagrams for the control unit on x86 processors is enough to make you vomit. It is so scary I do not even understand how human beings created this thing, it has like 100 instructions, all instruction sizes are different. The P4 is pipelined to hell because decoding all of the ops into microOps introduces delays which under normal circumstances would limit the clock speed. That said I would not want to make a compiler for x86 or work on the processor layout but I am thoroughly impressed by the engineering in the product, how they make it work and perform is really a credit to the engineers at intel and amd. That said I definitely do not approve of how they are beating a dead horse. Intel should move to a more modern arch they have the size and mandate to do it while screwing AMD.
Intel chips are a no go, apple is not going to transition to the ugliest oldest ISA on the block so they have to move again. The G5 is essentially most of the power4 minus some enterprise features, cache and it has altivec. Changing ISA's is not easy so unless really forced I could not see any manufacturer doing this. Transmeta, or Arm huh why not just use a G3 same difference low power, eh performance. Amd is to hot also apple likes to package their products well, with amd no thin beautiful case, also I do not think laptop chip variants are faster than the g4's. Learn about chip archs before opening your mouth.
The Apple Macintosh G5 Powerbook codename Powerbake!
64 bit computing with the best Unix powered GUI OS in the world with Mac OS X Pussycat! The successor to the highly acclaimed Mac OS X Panther!
And it'll even cook your food for you! Trust us, just put an a filet mignon on it and you'll have a steak in no time!
Last year I purchased a top of the line 14.1" ibook with 700Mhz G3 and 640MB ram, combo drive and Airport card. If I am using say iTunes, iMovie and Photoshop, the lower left hand corner will get a little warm and the fan kicks into overdrive, but that is after 3 or 4 hours of running all those apps. I bought this to replace a Viao Z505 ultra thin. I loved the 1"thick and 3.5 pounds, but even with a pentium 233, the damn thing would almost burn me if I left it on for too long and windows would crash due to overheating. I say someone saying how they had 1.3Ghz PIII laptop a while ago, that's nice, but can I tell a difference in say PowerPoint between my 700Mhz G3 and a 1 Ghz Althon? Not really and my mac has crashed twice in the last year. Once I was trying to see what it would take (photoshop, itunes, imovie, Golive, and FCP and then launch a classic app...that did it). I can close my laptop and reopen it without it crashing like on my old laptop. I reset my ibook only after downloading updates every two weeks or so. At one point it had an uptime of over 28 days. That's 28 days of open, close, open, close and the system began doing strange things. I guess 1 reset a month isn't that bad for a laptop. Now I design webpages for living deployed on *iux based servers. Being able to develop in a *iux enviroment and still have tools like Photoshop and Dreamweaver/flash is a tremendous advantage to me and a feature that I will pay a little more for. Another issue is TCO. One the clients I met with today does video production and he is still using a G3 500 and uses FCP and PS on a daily basis. He's had the machine almost 5 years and can still purchase new software. Will it run as fast as a G4, no, but as he said, if it takes 4 hours to render a video, I go fishing and come back. One other photographer switched to using Dell's, but quickly found that he was upgrading about every 18 months compared to 24 - 36 with Macs and even though the hardware costs are cheaper, but he said that he was losing a lot more time with system crashes and is considering going back to Mac's and getting a dual G5. This laptop will proable last me another two years with proably a new battery needed in that time, but maybe at that time I will consider a powerbook and a g5 will be in it.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
you need to do a lot more reading about this issue. The PPC/G3/G4 chips do run much cooler and use less wattage. That's why the apple laptops have better battery life, for example. This point, like many others relating to battery & cpu in apple laptops, is highly debatable among many apologists, but it is still well known that they are more efficient and generally more powerful and efficient IN PROPORTION for their clock speeds than intel/amd offerings (currently, of course). Apple can't get blood from a stone, but they also prefer that their laptops have longer battery life, run cooler, and (very important) are SIGNIFICANTLY quieter than competitor's machines. The apple desktops are very quiet as well. Without going any further or even beginning to get technical, I suggest you research relationships between apple's cpu's, their reasons for lack of/use of (sometimes multiple) fans, their lower power consumption, and lower noise (in both desktop and mobiles). Not to mention, get rid of your smug and snotty attitude you lemming fanboy. Still trying to justify your HEAVY, ugly, still warmer and shorter battery life purchase from Dell, huh? Really, you seem to have NO idea what you are talking about, only that you want to bash apple. Nice.
Acorn in the UK developed its own RISC processor
<merkin parody>
Where is this UK of which you speak? Is it one of them Canadian provinces?
</merkin parody>
Tweet, tweet.
I was on a Mac forum talking about how I didn't think Apple deserved to call the G5 the fastest computer when they used gcc for their compilation... The smarter people said that that merely removes another variable (of course that's ridiculus since obviously every variable need not be removed -- ie. same transistor count? Of course not). Quite a few just came into the thread to insult me. Nice.
The man never speaks of technology in a future sense.
He always discusses product technologies after they have been and/or near completion in R&D.
If the G5 Powerbook is coming from his lips you can bet they are working now on other products.
His approach has been the same since the HP days, the NeXT Days and so on and so forth.
John is not one for hype. So this is good to see.
You're right - Apple hardware was always cool. Now their hardware and their software (read OS X) are really cool.
TSJ
Either a slimline space heater, or a lap warmer.
...
I don't think that long battery life will be
this model's best feature. I would expect to
see twice as large a battery on the G5 than
the G4 laptop. If it's going to be normally
tethered, might just as well stick with the
17" powerbook form factor
Hell, I want one, and I want it now !!!
You know, that 13 pound lugable laptop
that runs the 500 MHz UltraSPARC IIIe
and Solaris 2.9?
Oh, yeah, right, that one costs $12K
you dumd piece of silicon!
You get teh prize!
Congratulations, you get teh prize!
(for a significant time)
Your guess is as good as anyone's. It might be at the next expo. Remember, the 12" and 17" PowerBooks were kept pretty tightly under wraps until they were announced; it seems that that division of Apple is more secure leak-wise.
Imagine you were Apple. Would you even hint that a G5 PowerBook might be approaching the pipeline? They must have lost a hell of a lot of G4 PowerMac sales with the drawn-out impending release of the G5.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Quote: "I was on a Mac forum talking about how I didn't think..."
OK. You are basing your opinion of all Apple users based on one discussion board? Shall I base my opinion of all computer users on the thoughtful posts of Slashdot? Give me an effin' break.
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
[ NOTE TO SELF: Now I know why I don't read /. ]
The IBM PowerPC 970 was not only designed to be a ~40W, 2GHz (at current fab levels) processor for desktops, but also a sub-20W, 1.2-1.4GHz (at current fab levels) processor for notebooks too!
Apple G5 notebook? Um, yeah, duh, IBM already thought of that too!
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
Independent Author, Consultant and Trainer
I hope that apple will soon discover that a mouse can have more than a single button...
And I hope slashdotters will soon discover they can buy a 5-button scrollwheel mouse for, like, $12. Mac OS X is aware of 2+ button mice.
I don't know the exact reason Apple ships a one button mouse, but I think most people that complain about it have easily wasted more money in time than the cash it would take to buy a mouse.
Seriously, any USB mouse should work.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
I'm not convinced the same would be true of a G5 powerbook. For me, a 1GHz chip (PPC, x86, whatever) is more than enough, has been for the last two years, and probably will be for the next two as well. Battery life, however, is very important. I've just ordered a 15" G4 PowerBook, but if Apple had offered an identical machine, at the same price, with a G3 and a longer battery life, I don't would have been tempted. I would probably have still bought the G4, since a lot of Mac apps are AltiVec optimised. If they had had a G5, running faster but with a shorter battery life then, even at the same price, it would have been no contest. I would still have bought the G4.
For some laptop users, CPU power is a vital consideration, but for a lot of people it really isn't that important.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I bought my 2002 Golf thinking that the "IV" platform would be around at least a bit longer. Now that I've seen the 2004 Golf "V" I think to myself, "Self, the new TDI engine is much more powerful than the one we got. The new body is much more stylish. This one has standard power windows and we have to turn the fscking crank! Argh! Should have bought a used beater and held on for a couple more years!"
MORTAR COMBAT!
An old IBM Thinkpad 486/25 (560C I think) from the mid 1930's or so. It has no fans and runs very cool. I have Minix, Linux (early kernel) and DOS on it for my spare time reading about OS design and implementation.
I also have an old Fujitsu Pentium 133MMX that doesn't use a fan or get hot.
My Dell Inspiron 8100 I have set to always run at 1/2 speed (600MHz) and it still gets hot (although not nearly as bad).
My iBook is cool and gets warm after an hour or so but not too bad.
I may just buy a Ti 867 and wait for the G5 laptops as I said. I hate having to carry a notepad/folio in my laptop case (Inspiron) to use it on my lap.
They should change the name to Burntop.
Apple laptops are effectively unusable for unix users.
I am a long-time Unix user. That means I need to have the Ctrl key to the left of the A key. This is a genuine need, not merely a want; it is based upon ergonomics. The Ctrl key is heavily used in unix, and it must be easily accessable. It cannot be off in the lower left corner of the keyboard where it is difficult to get at, and where it distorts the position of your left hand such that you can't easily type other keys while holding the Ctrl key down.
Apple desktop keyboards are now all USB. They are all OK. The CapsLock key can be re-mapped into a Ctrl key.
Unfortunately, even in this modern age, all Apple laptops have built-in ADB keyboards. The ADB keyboard is broken-by-design. It is, in general, not possible to remap the CapsLock key into a Ctrl key.
There are some exceptions, but they are horrible kludges. They are horrible kludges because the original design of the ADB keyboard was a horrible kludge. The correct solution would be for Apple to re-design their laptop motherboards to use built-in USB keyboards. This hasn't happened yet. If you run Linux, use Debian's solution. For Mac OS X users, uControl works. There are no solutions (that I know of) for either NetBSD or OpenBSD. Please note once again that the "solutions" above are in fact kludges, because of the original bad design of the ADB keyboard.
Apple provides a technical note on how to remap the keyboard, but provides no solution to the hardware problems caused by the design of the ADB keyboard. This tech note helps foreign language users, but does nothing for the CapsLock/Ctrl problem.
Apple is (currently) ignoring Unix users! This is not merely speculation on my part. In an on-going email exchange I am having with an Apple employee (whom I won't name) in their marketing department, the Apple marketing person directly stated to me that Apple was catering to their historic Mac customers, and is purposely ignoring the Unix market. He also claimed that Apple would soon start paying more attention to the Unix market. I won't hold my breath. Apple has been ignoring Unix users for more than 13 years. I expect that trend to continue. (Also note that my Apple contact indicated that Macs would never ship with a 3-button mouse, even though Apple intended to port almost all X-window software and deliver it either on a CD/DVD or installed directly on each Mac's hard drive. How Unix friendly is a 1-button mouse with X programs that often require 3 buttons?)
Apple has now lost two opportunities to sell me hardware. I really wanted an Apple laptop for their superior battery life, and for the PowerPC with Altivec CPU. (The Altivec is vastly superior to the x86 line for DSP.) Because I can't live with the broken-by-design built-in ADB keyboard in all Apple laptops, Sony and IBM sold me laptops instead. If Apple fixes this problem, they will sell me a PowerBook next year; if they don't, I'll still be running OpenBSD on x86 hardware, and wishing I could use a Mac.
>>>Oh, I paid 1500 for my X1000.
Why is it so difficult for people like yourself to understand that yes, you paid $1500.00 for your X1000, and no, it does not equal the pricier PowerBook.
It's ok to admit that either you just don't like PowerBooks, or that you needed a PC for some reason, or that you don't have much money, but don't try to blow smoke up people's asses who own both own and use both of them.
You paid less, and got less with the X1000.
-It's heavier.
-It's thicker.
-It's ugly.
-The hinge, like even the now discontinued PB Titanium had, sucks (and this is one of those quality things which is completely overlooked when people talk about how little they paid for their Windows PC)
-No Firewire 800.
-No 802.11g
-No BackLit Keyboard.
-No close or open the lid instant-on sleep function
-No DVI out.
-It is NOT aluminum, like all of it's cheap PC Laptop ilk, it has some PIECES of aluminum, but it's just mostly plastic, (go look at an Al PB to see what a true aluminum case looks and feels like)
-Cheap latching mechanism. Again, go look at how Apple's latches work, they are incredibly smart and well-engineered, but who cares about details, right?)
-$1500 doesn't include the upgrade to XP Pro, XP Home is not in any way comparable to OS X, right there add $75.
-No 1000T
And this is just the obvious stuff, there are dozens of other details, both big and small, that differentiate the two notebooks.
I am no Mac Fanboy, just a dual-platform user who can tell the difference between a Filet Mignon and a Chuck Steak.
Oooops! Nope. Google is your friend here. Check out the original PPC 970 announcement by IBM at the microprocessor forum. Date: Oct' 14, 2002. On the other hand, check out Apple's PR announcement of the G5. Wow! Date: June 23, 2003.
Of course, IBM tried not to blow the lid, addressing Altivec vaguely, as: "[...] specialized circuitry known as a single instruction multiple data (SIMD) unit."
If IBM did this with the original G5 proc., expect that they will surely do it with a 970 revision! They are not complete idiots, Jobs or no Jobs, they trumpet their achievements, whilst trying hard not to kick Apple in the balls, whom they are trying very hard to help.
Come on folks! Until a discreet PR move by IBM, no mobile G5 in sight.
dani++
I use my iBook in a similar fashion. but I do mostly development (emacs, browser, Common Lisp). It seems to me that problems with OS X start after I use anything from MS Office.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
No matter how screwed up the hardware is, if it can be remapped in some OS's, it has to be possible to remap it in OpenBSD somehow, and it should also be possible to hack in something to get some function keys to show up as alternate mouse buttons.
Since OS-X already supports X, BSD utilities, and POSIX, it's pretty clear that Apple must view people running other unices on their hardware as a teeny minority. They are doing a good job of wooing linux users over to OS-X by writing X-windows implementations and so forth, so why would they want to encourage people to run OpenBSD on their laptops, which can't run iTunes et al. Plus, when *nix people have to run OS-X on their Mac laptops, this will make it more likely that they'll just port their stuff to work with OS-X, which will than benefit "regular" OS-X users, and thus help out Apple by providing more software that can run on their native OS. Someone who buys a Powerbook and installs *nix on it is someone who could easily switch to a Thinkpad next year; someone who buys a Powerbook and runs OS-X will likely get "hooked" and want to buy another Powerbook.
Marketing schemes aside, it's even more likely that the non-MacOS users of Mac hardware are such a small minority that Apple doesn't even spend much time thinking about them. As a software developer, I've often had users with special needs ask for all kinds of features, not realizing that they are .003% of the market or whatever, and supporting their esoteric requests is more goodwill than actual good business practice. Goodwill is important for sure, but at the end of the day there's only so much you can work on and you have to use some sort of triage.
I misread something. The 750GX is SMP-capable, but does not include an AltiVec-compatible SIMD unit. That's planned for a future version.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
water cooling: http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns999 94086
Try the mac. The clock speeds are misleading.
I'm not going to tell you that a G4/1Ghz is faster than a 2.4Ghz P4......but...
You might find you actually get more work done with less stress on the *cough* slower mac... and that's really the point, isn't it?
Hi.
;)
I'll have to remove you from my friends list because I can't reply to your journal and you never reply to mine. But do notify me if you change your policy.
Slashdot community, please notice: I am looking for a girlfriend.
Nave H. Weiss