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iTunes for Windows Breaking Older iPods
evil_liam asks: "In our office we've been running an older 5gb iPod with both Macs and PC's (using Xplay), but when we installed iTunes for the PC the iPod stopped working. Songs and playlists transfer over fine, and you can see them and play them in iTunes, but you can't listen to them on the iPod, itself. It shows the song details and so forth, but skips through the tracks, playing 0 seconds of each one until it finishes. This only applies to tracks added since iTunes was installed. No amount of reformatting, or rolling back firmware seems to work. When I called Apple, they stated that they simply don't support the use of the older Mac iPods on PC's and are not responsible, even though they admit that it was their own software that caused this. We're not alone, see this thread at Apple.
I'm not quite suggesting that this was deliberate, but they are aware of it and don't seem to care." Does anyone have ideas on possible fixes for the afflicted iPods?
Buy a newer iPod.
New free iPods from Apple... especially sweet if you have one of the versions with lower memory capacities and get a free upgrade!
...that the iTunes store was a way to sell more iPods. Now we see what they meant! :)
Maybe you didn't pay your Mac Tax and they are trying to collect it by forcing you to buy a new iPod.
Does anyone have ideas on possible fixes for the afflicted iPods?
Drop it off a 5th story balcony.
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
no contest. some things just caN'T be fixed, & will be replaced.
iTunes broke the iPod, not Windows.
Penny Arcade
eBay it and get a walkman. =P
Apple always seems to shit on their customers, at least from the lower echelons of their support and management ladder. Once word gets to someone with real power the problem will likely be remedied.
How often does
Trolling is a art,
But from talking to my Mac using friends, this is SOP for Apple. Try running iTunes on some older version of MacOS... probably won't work. Or try installing OSX on older hardware, same issue. They don't stick with older hardware or software.
Apple is...
Style over substance. Overpriced. Underpowered.
During early 2000, I bought an iMac and tried to get X running on it... what a pain. I had all kinds of hassles as the software wasn't ready yet... and the support was mediocre. I wasn't impressed, especially considering what I paid. Should have bought a Dell and put linux on it... probably serves me right. That was the first and last time I buy anything from Apple. As much as I respect Jobs and their innovation at Apple, I am forced to believe it's mostly marketing that powers Apple today.
Question 7: I have both a Mac and a PC. Will my iPod work on both?
Answer: No, not at the same time. iPod is configured for either Mac or PC. You can use the iPod Software Updater utility to restore iPod to work with a Mac or a PC (depending on which version of the utility you use). See technical document 60983, "iPod: How to Restore" for more information.
Note: Using the iPod for Mac on a PC, or using the iPod for Windows on a Mac, is not supported by Apple.
Question 8: Can I use an iPod formatted for Mac on a PC, or an iPod formatted for Windows on a Mac?
Answer: It is not possible to use an iPod formatted for Mac with Windows. This is because Windows does not support the HFS Plus file system and therefore will not see the drive.
You can convert an iPod formatted for Windows into an iPod for Mac by using the iPod for Mac Software Updater on the Apple website. Note that once it is reformatted, it will only work with Macs. You need Mac OS 9.2 or Mac OS X 10.1 or later to reformat an iPod for Windows into an iPod for Mac.
Note: Using the iPod for Mac on a PC, or using the iPod for Windows on a Mac, is not supported by Apple.
Apple hates bad PR. Once all the Mac sites pick this up, the pressure will mount and Apple will likely release a fix.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
After all this is a MAC ipod on a WINDOWS machine. They never intended this particular ipod to be used on a windows machine. So why should they support the use of it? Yes subsequent ipods are designed to be for windows, but the one in question was not. Therefore, I do not see what anyone can expect of them. It would be nice if this mac designed product worked with their later newer windows designed product, but I do not see them under any obligation to do so.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Why are you playing with the f'n iPod in your office?
Maybe the editors should check their boilerplate stories before posting...
Laws are for people with no friends.
I'm not terribly surprised that the first-generation hardware, designed solely to work with Macs, has some problems with the brand new software. What do you expect?
Also in the linked discussion board, it seems like multiple problems are being reported as a single problem. For example, one guy reverted to old iPod software and still had problems. Another guy has problems only with music downloaded from iTunes. Another guy only has problems with CDs he ripped.
Every consumer device has issues and flaming mad customers. The real question is, is the problem widespread. The other question is, why has Cliff posted three "an Apple consumer is having a problem" articles in the last couple of days (the first two seemed to be pretty damn stupid and non-widespread to me).
Apple seems to have always had a problem with not giving a hoot about their existing customers.
Perhaps it's because their existing customer base is so loyal and rabid, yet are such a small percentage of the market they're after. But whatever the cause, they are always breaking compatability and leaving various customers out in the cold. If you follow the mac discussion boards for a year or so, you'll see this happen again and again.
What they don't seem to understand is that it's almost always a good idea to keep your customers from feeling like they're getting screwed. People just want to feel that they're being treated fairly. It doesn't matter that much what _is_ fair, but the vast majority of people are pretty reasonable, and a little good faith effort on the part of a company goes a long way. I speak from experience.
I have been a relatively happy Apple user for a few years now. But I've read the boards and they just have a way of saying "we don't really care" more often than any company should. It's just bad business.
Cheers.
Call tech support again. I've always found them quite helpful (at least the AppleCare ones) when i've had hardware issues. Or take it to an Apple Store, heard good things about them ebing willing to bend over backwards to help out.
Mod point free since 2001
Fanboy backlash is just as ugly as fanboy-ism itself. It makes all of you look just as stupid as the fanboys you claim to be superior to.
Apple is so horrible that you have to gloat about faults at every chance? Get over yourselves.
And before I get jumped on, no, I don't think Apple is the be all and end all of computing, and no, I don't think it does no wrong. This backlash is ugly though. Grow up.
Oh, and way to answer this guy's question, jackasses.
----
To really answer your question, dude, I'd say try using the other software that you were using before you got iTunes to sync your iPod. See if it will go back to the way it was before, and if so, use that software.
I dunno, though. I don't really understand what about it "breaks" the iPod.
Should have purchased the CompUSA TAP insurance. 2 years ago i bought a 2nd generation 20 gig iPod at the apple store, then i went down to compUSA and purchased the TAP insurance on it. One of the only cool things about compUSA is their willingness to sell you the replacement plans, not all of them can be of benefit to you, but the iPod plan is very unique. About 6 months ago i went in (just after they discontinued their 20gig model) and reported having battey life issues. The guy took a look at it, took a look at my original recipt and gladly replaced it with a brand new 3rd gen. 30 gig iPod. Well what do you know, some time has passed since then and now they've gone and discontinued the 30 gig and made it 40 gigs. I can technically go back there at any time within 2 years from 6 months ago and get the latest greatest iPod assuming Apple keeps the pricing the same on the nicest iPod.
In our OFFICE ??? Do you work for queer eye for the straight guy or something?
I do think this was deliberate. Most people don't need a 40GB iPod but if you can find a way to force them to upgrade from their old iPod, you have created a new business model...
1. Buy iPod
2. ???
3. Profit!!! Old iPod does not work. You need to buy a new one.
I am always amazed by Apple's ability to simultaneously dazzle and aggravate.
Awe and shock?
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
Is this really worth posting to the Slashdot home page? I'm an Apple user, and even to me this seems to be something worthy of posting to the MacNN/ArsTechnica forums, but not to the slashdot home page.
Slashdot is not tech support.
- Vincit qui patitur.
Of the 8 posts on apple's site, most of them seem to think that Apple has done this intentionally. Let's be clear--Apple has NOTHING to gain by pissing off the Windows user base. Their entire strategy hinges on positive experience with Apple products that encourages people to switch and have that experience with every interaction. I would be surprised if the actual interactions with Apple have been all that negative (yes...I'm saying that some people may be aggrevated and exaggerating). My interactions with Apple (as a Mac user) have always been reasonably positive, whether this be for sales, technical support or developer relations.
It's silly to think they're trying to sabatoge the Windows base. And if some phone rep blew it...well, that's clearly a problem but I just don't see this as anything more than one person's screw up.
---- Please be nice in case my Slashdot karma ~= my real life karma.
Just a suggestion, but....
Get a Mac?
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
I love Apple's products in general (just got my first powerbook). But this is apparently pretty standard thinking for them. None of the MacOS releases is 100% binary compatible with older programs, so lots of programs break when you upgrade your OS. Sucks for the pocketbook... but (assuming you get the proper version of everything) it's great for stability/efficiency.
Apple not supporting their software? Shame.
But I'm sure this problem had something to do with Windows, as Microsoft software is the root of all evil.
I don't have an iPod so I don't know how long the warranty lasts, but if it's still under warranty return it to the retailer or manufacturer as defective.
As many of you who have worked in retail know, it hardly matters if you smashed it with a hammer. They'll take it back.
so, uh, itunes pc doesn't work with your hardware, so, uuuhhhh,
so don't do that.
as increadible as it may seem, sometimes newer software doesn't work with older hardware.
Patches and fixes, and "it's not our problem" horror stories, are now almost a daily news item on /.
;)
That donation Microsoft made a few years back is really working wonders. Who would have thought?
What part of "not supported" was not understood? I am sure that Apple will do something to rectify the situation. Hope they had a backup of their music. Wait a second, a MAC-only 5GB IPOD? Not a "Mac-only unless running iTunes on a PC running Windows, then it is ok" iPod. Why does it not surprise me that running a first-generation Mac-only IPOD on a Windows machine causes problems? Maybe the part about it being "mac-only", and "not supported on PC", as well as being "mac-only". (The repition was purely intentional). This seems to be the user's fault, not Apple's. So if I put a BMW dashboard into a VW, will I be able to get mad when it does not work. All I am saying is do not rush to blame Apple on this one, this seems to be a PICNIC issue to me.
I hate sigs.
reformat your ipod from Mac to PC...
I had this problem with my Windows-formatted iPod after trying to mount it, exactly once, on a Mac. The cure is to restore it. It doesn't seem you do any permanent damage this way.
I like it!
I have an old 5GB iPod too, and I've been using it with iTunes for Windows with no problems.. however, mine was always Windows-formatted (I just used Musicmatch and later ephpod before iTunes/Windows came out).
One thing that bugs me about Windows is that it seems to not want to acknowledge that other filesystems exist. It's trivial to mount a FAT32 drive in FreeBSD, a bit tougher with NTFS but still fairly easy. I belive Macs can read FAT32 as well but I'm not positive. But will Windows read UFS or HFS? No, because Windows is the only OS anyone would use, of course. *rolleyes*
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
I ran into similar problems. I've also got an older 5gig Mac iPod that I was using with Xplay. After I suffered through the win2k bug which replaced core system files and forced me to do a win2k repair install, I got iTunes up and running well. After a short while though, when I plugged my iTunes into another machine and said 'yes' to the 'resync to this machine instead of the existing profile', it suddenly stopped working at all. I could bring up the iPod and use it as a drive, but no matter what I tried, iTunes would no longer recognize it. When I tried the latest windows flasher, it wouldn't see it either. What finally worked was to bring it to a PC that had never seen any iPods or iTunes before, and using that to flash the iPod back to factory defaults. That finally worked and when I brought it back to my original machine it suddenly saw it and initialized it without a hitch. I've been holding off on getting a new iPod for exactly the reason that Apple only cares about the first sale. Once they have your money you're dirt to them until the next time they want to sell the big ticket item. Luckily mine will keep going for a while longer now.
I mean, they seem to have known of the glitch ahead of time, can't they just check the type of IPod connected? If it's nor compatible, ITunes simply won't connect to the older IPods... problem solved and IPods saved.
I'm not an IPod user, so illuminate me if I'm on the wrong track...
Except the new 3rd generation iPods, they will work on mac and pc if formatted in FAT32 IIRC. The first generation ones will only work for what you bought them to work on (mac or pc) which seems all fair to me, IIRC, a 2nd gen iPod will work on mac and pc if fat32 formatted. They don't seem to be doing anything wrong though, since their First Gen iPods were designed to be Mac Only, and I believe the 2nd gen one's will work on PC. Just because the apple made software doesn't support the hack that makes it work on PCs, doesn't make them the bad guy. Since this has been addressed in this manner though, I assume they might fix it.
Sig: I stole this sig.
. . . from the tards on the short bus.
I'm not quite suggesting that this was deliberate
Well, the breaking may not have been deliberate, but their refusal to support their customers is most certainly deliberate . And is it more than a coincidence that fixing this problem isn't going to sell many more iPods, is it ?
A vendor gave me an Intel Pocket Concert 128MB MP3 player about two years ago, and its now very nearly a boat anchor. Intel stopped selling them and has ceased development on drivers. The version of software still available from Intel supports XP, but what about the next iteration/service pack from Redmond? I didn't pay for this device out of my pocket, but if I did I'd be kind of pissed that it's very nearly unusable due to software on the computer.
And that's what scares me (next to breaking or having stolen) about an iPod -- what happens when Apple says "Sorry, we don't support you" as few as two years down the road -- are you just SOL? Time for another $300+ to buy another one?
I'd have a little more faith in these things if they were primarily 1394/USB disks with firmware. Put MP3s and playlists on them, voila, it will play them, and did not have a closed interface with proprietary software that the vendor may or may not decide to support or fix, rendering an otherwise functional machine worthless.
will someone please find a new metaphor here? whoever uses this tired metaphor next is going to be bashed over the head with a newly-painted kettle. or perhaps pot.
Are you nuts?
Everyone knows that Macs are so intuitive you don't need to read the manual!
If you're using XPlay to operate your iPod in a manner that Apple says it doesn't support in the first place, why are you griping about/to Apple?
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Using the iPod for Mac on a PC, or using the iPod for Windows on a Mac, is not supported by Apple
This point needs to be emphasid a lot, because it is the key issue here. As far as I know, Apple has had this policy for all iPods since day one. So who's to blame, Apple for saying "use a Mac iPod on a Mac, and use a PC iPod on a PC", or the user who didn't listen and did what he wanted? Yes, it stinks that some people used to do this without problems, and now they're not so lucky. But the bottom line is that nobody should ever have used a Mac iPod on a PC in the first place.
I had the exact same problem with my first gen iPod back in the day, only I was using MacDrive and Ephpod. I hadn't had any problems, then one day, all my tracks were zero length. Seemed like the database got fucked up.
I returned it twice (thank you CompUSA "protection plan") thinking it was a hardware problem, since I had been using it nearly a year. Finally just got credit and bought an Xbox (which I swiftly modded) =P.
Join ADC
Bug Apple
Very little at Apple actually happens without a report in this "RadarWeb" bug tracking system of theirs. Think about it- this is how actual engineers have actual tasks/problems assigned to them, except maybe when Steve says "make it so".
Of course, as you're perfectly aware, you broke your Macintosh-only iPod while trying to use it on a PC, something you were rather clearly warned against doing when you bought the device. Did you complain to Sony because your Betamax tape player was screwed up by a VHS tape, too?
So why are you complaining about it on Slashdot, anyway ?
I'm willing to bet you could fix the problem by installing the most recent iPod firmware update, if you were willing to try that and weren't just trolling.
While this may not be the only, or necessarily best option, if you do have to upgrade Small Dog Electronics has a trade-in program for upgrading to a newer iPod.
This is the best software ever written for Windows!
Makes you wonder, huh?
I had the same problem with Ephpod and a first gen iPod. The files are there on the hard drive, so it must be whatever database/metadata stores the info on the tracks.
I agree completely. I've become a dedicated Apple fan because I really think the products (esp OS X) are far superior to everything else. It's basically what I thnk the ultimate "Desktop Linux" should be like.
.Mac accounts went nowhere. All Apple had to say was "Our implementation of WebDAV is standards compliant. It must be Macromedia's problem!"
But boy do they give off that air of not caring. In fact, they don't seem to care about the fact that they don't care. The "it's not our problem" platform is getting so old. Panther wipes out my Firewire drive I was using to back up both systems. Not only didn't Apple care but they waited a week before even admitting there was a problem.
Getting Dreamweaver (arguably the biggest web editing software for the Apple platform) to work with the
They also love to outmode their equipment and offer no backward support. A month after I bought my desktop they started implementing the SuperDrive and offering iDVD. There was no option for upgrading my system. They instead insisted I should buy a new computer. A month after I bought my Powerbook the same thing happened again. It's just like this iPod story: they could either lift a finger to support older hardware or get their diehard fans to buy new equipment. They'll choose selling new equipment any day of the week.
They also used to have a really good support network for Apple professionals/consultants (Apple Solutions Experts), but in the last year they cannibalized it and turned it into a means to sell certification licenses. I know a few really pissed off Apple experts who have turned toward Microsoft because MS at least knows not to bite the hand that feeds it.
It's all about profit and nothing about supporting a loyal customer base. And sadly it won't surprise me if this ultimately bites them in the butt!
Murray Todd Williams
not interesting. mod parent down. The first version of iTunes for Windows released had a bug which caused some Win2k machines to crash. I bet that's the first time any first-release windows software had a problem like that. There's an update which fixes that problem anyway ( I think it was out about a week after the first version ). The issue isn't with new, Windows-compatible iPods, it's with old, first-generation Macintosh-only iPods that you have no business hooking to a PC anyway. Duh. I'm looking for the report where a Windows-compatible iPod is broken by iTunes... none? No? Why is this article posted? This guy needs to re-install the last iPod firmware update and remember not to try that again, end of story.
And where can the rest of us get some?
"Windows" Firewire ports. Microsoft doesn't make Firewire ports for starters, sparky.
What you are no doubt referring to is the fact that most PC Firewire Peripherals are four pin, and as such don't support power over Firewire. Which should have absolutely NO IMPACT on an iPod whatsoever.
But hey, anything to get a little jab in at Microsoft right.
Article is a troll. If this is a bug and is fixable, Apple will fix it... just don't expect an emergancy fix for a documented issue.
Why? Because he misspelled?
I must remind you that Apple had to switch insurance carriers several years ago because that had so many cases of AIDS-related dementia that it was too expensive.
iPoo
dude, the origianl 5gig was MAC only.. only after that did they relase a mac/windows ipod. So if you bought a mac only ipod and now force it on widows...then what do you expect.. buy a new ipod.
Right. Every company of every product you've ever tried has always had a flawless execution of every single new product they've ever had, especially when trying to make their product work on a competitor's product. That's why we always tell you to download each and every single MS patch (assuming it doesn't break your system in other ways), wait until SP1 before upgrading your MS product, and never use a x.0 product.
Get real. While these are important issues, the important thing is whether or not Apple fixes these issues. Windows isn't exactly Apple's speciality after all. I'd say you were just trolling and have a pretty crappy cop-out reason for discounting Apple this easily.
I wish I still had my mod points for the parent post.
Get an Archos and load it with the open-source firmware Rockbox (http://rockbox.haxx.se/). It's the only way to go.
I could have sworn that this was the exact same post a while back on some MS issue as well. Maybe this guy is hanging out with the troll who copies 17mb files on almost every system too.
SuDZ
How does a thread with 11 posts become generalized on Slashdot as iTunes for the PC is breaking all 5gb iPods?
There is something known as journalistic integrity, one piece of which involves not misrepresenting or overstating a single piece of information.
People think that just because they paid money for a computer that it should "just work" in spite of whatever stupidity they inflict on it.
Kind of like people who never check their oil and wonder why their engines blow up.
Unfortunately, due to Apple's ease of use, almost non-existent learning curve, and price point, people feel entirely justified to act like complete retards and when Apple nicely says "You're a complete retard. That's why it doesn't work. Try being less retarded." people get sensitive and feel like "they're getting screwed".
RTFM. If you want your Mac iPod to work with Windows, reformat using the Windows formatting tool. Vice-versa going from Windows to Mac.
The iPod kicks ass: I installed the 10.3 beta released right after WWDC on it and was able to boot from any Mac with a FireWire port on it: tres convenient for testing purposes.
[RANT]
Today, I overheard a call to our helpdesk -- Software Engineering sits in the same area, and the phone operator was talking to the user on speakerphone because he was trying to do 8 other things at the same time.
We're in the middle of converting a number of users to the PC from the Mac. The operator was explaining the secondary mouse button to the user, who got really frustrated and said "You know you people really should have sent out an email about this 'right-clicking': this is very confusing."
People are lazy and stupid. Some more so than others.
[/RANT]
Bottom line is that I've almost always found Apple support to be helpful in solving my problem. That doesn't mean they've given me the answer I wanted but I've never felt that Apple was screwing me.
Except for the whole IIvi thing, but that was years ago.
P.S. to the Sony fanboi: Their customer support truly does suck. Tried to get upgraded drivers for my burner. Couldn't find them on the site. Sony told me they'd send them to me. For $20.
Enjoy your Clie.
- learn to swim.
Wow!!! Is this a hypocrite Apple zealot trying to tell people to RTFM? Huh? Who has time for manuals and documentation? Isn't everything supposed to "just work" (tm)? Especially simple tasks like playing music on iPod?
my wife has one of the new 10G ipods with the dock. i had been using it with our windows pc, but then we got a powerbook, so i began using it with that. i added songs to it, and the first time she used it, the ipod did the same thing described in the article -- it started skipping through, playing 0 seconds of each song. i simply reformatted it with software downloaded from apple's web site and it fixed it.
I saw this exact message before ('sole developer responsible' posted on a previous 'anti-Apple' story on here. (iTunes Disables MusicMatch).
I've had similar problems with a first gen iPod, and the same problem with multiple firewire drives, all related to the fact that Windows gays up firewire drives. All would every now and then have a "Delayed Write Failed" error pop up occasionally, then the drives would disappear as far as Windows was concerned. Turning off write caching in Device Manager has no effect.
I will say that I'm still using the same firewire chassis, only now with 7200 RPM instead of 5400 RPM drives, and haven't had the problem since. The iPod has a rather slow hard drive too, which could explain the similar issues.
Regardless, I'm inclined to believe Windows just has a shitty VFS or Firewire subsystem...
thats all I can tell you, you mo r o n s
class action lawsuit
OSX patches aren't exactly Apple's speciality either, right?
At least Windows user's didn't have to cough-up for a new OS after just over a year..
Perhaps you should stop trying to copy 17 MB files to your iPod...
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Isn't this what we always complain about on linux? Hardware manufacturers should either write a driver, or give full specifications on request so the user can write his own.
While you may not consider them under any obligation to make iTunes recognize the older iPods, I do see them as under an obligation to make sure that iTunes doesn't adversely affect your computer. If iTunes doesn't want to talk to the older iPod, fine. But it should just ignore it. Under no circumstances should it cause the iPod to fail. That's just a bug in iTunes.
The iPod problem is a result of people using Mac iPods with Windows boxes, and of people who have somehow managed to make their newer iPods into Mac-only iPods, probably by munging a reinitilization or by putting bad system software on the Pod.
Older iPods used a different file system, depending on whether they were for Mac or PC.
I'm sorry that iTunes kept breaking your machine, but it's been updated since and that bug has been fixed. It's kinda hard ensuring compatability with the eleventy-bazillion different PC configurations out there, especially for Apple.
A lot of the anti-iTunes sentiment I've read on message boards has been just wrong. Maybe Apple should've organized the PC program in a way more familiar to Windows users, but that would've killed the trojan horse.
See all those little buttons on the window? They all do something, and sometimes they're the only way to do something. I had to show one guy how to go into "browse" mode. He assumed there must be a menu option. Nope. Just press the button that says "browse".
Trust me, there is nothing that Music Match or WM9 or any other Windows program can do that iTunes for Windows can't do. I even read someone complaining that he couldn't transfer smart playlists from iTunes to the iPod. WTF? It works perfectly. They transfer as static lists whose content is set at the time of the sync.
You can boot other OSes from the Windows boot loader easily... you just need a copy of the boot sector (first 512 bytes) in a file at the root of the C:\ drive. See here on how to configure NT Loader to boot Linux.
but wait, since its also apple's ONLY selling point, its also +5 insightful
How does a well-written OS let a music playing app crash it on bootup?
However, this 5gig iPod is from the "when hell freezes over" days when Apple was clear that there would be no Windows version. So unless Apple has some time travel gear ( and they may, there just that cool ) I guess they can't really be expected to "fix" this old hardware. Instead they just say that it's unsupported, i.e. your on your own.
Kind Regards
"A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
And then quicktime for windows as an application makes me realize I made the right decision. "Do you want to register?", "hey, hey, I was just wondering if you were ready to register." "Hey, you didn't need those file associations did you? 'cause I took 'em." It's almost as bad as the real one player. Ok, almost half as bad. I hate the real player.
i don't like my old sig.
Weak, I'd have posted this AC too if I wrote it.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Apple has the worst customer service I've ever witnessed in my entire life.
1.) They are difficult to contact
I searched their site for half an hour before I found an e-mail address, no sight of phone number or snailmail address.
2.) They are rude.
When I finally contacted them, they didn't answer any of my questions, which was expected, but what was not expected was the rude tone their e-mail was written in.
3.) They are mafialike.
They aren't clear about the DRM restrictions, and there's no technical detail on their implementation. While they do say that you can use your songs on "3 Macs or PCs, and an unlimited number of ipods" when they say ipods, they mean it. You cannot use the music on any other kind of device short of a cdplayer without decoding and re-encoded the music by writing it to a CD. They NEVER clearly state this on their website. They imply that you can re-download your music if you lose it with their "Check for previously purchased music" options. If you lose your music, you're out of luck. For example, if your computer crashes, you will lose all music you had downloaded unless you backed it up to cd or something else. Not only will you lose the music, but you also permanantly lose one "Mac or PC" to play music on if you had backed it up, it considers an installation a computer, and you'll have to authorize your "new computer" as a second computer after you re-install your computer, upgrade harddrives or anything else down the same path.
I would not recommend Apple's miserable service to anyone. I had always assumed Apple was the nice innocent company squashed by the Giant M$. I'd prefer to be fucked by M$, because at least they tell you they're fucking you when they do it.
Jamon
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
Windows isn't exactly Apple's speciality after all.
If this were the case, then what the fuck are Apple doing by releasing Windows software in the first place? This must be the lamest excuse I've ever heard for a poor product. C'mon, Apple isn't some $10 start-up run by preteens; it's a large, experienced software/hardware company, and they shouldn't be screwing things like this up. If MS were shown this much latitude, people would be screaming blue murder.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
This seems to be another cry of "wolf," like the earlier story this week about Apple not providing security fixes for older OS versions. What happened in the end? The next day, Apple said that the allegations were untrue and that security fixes were coming out.
Stop getting all your news from the Drudge Report...
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
My iPod is awesome but I couldn't get it to work properly with my PC until I:
- Got the charging USB 2.0 cable, OTW a full battery lasts about 15 min during sync.
- Uninstalled Apple's crap drivers and software, and installed EphPod. EphPod works thru the standard USB storage interface, lets you copy music off of the iPod, and access the contacts, notes, etc. All Apple's software does is restrict the user, crash and fail to detect the iPod intermittently.
My friend recieved an iPod as a gift, and it got corrupt firmware because it ran out of battery during the firmware upgrade. Fireware ports on PCs typically don't charge the iPod, and syncing drains it FAST!.
If you get an iPod for a PC, you must charge it fully before flashing, and even then, cross your fingers! Or get that USB 2.0 cable...
r4lv3k
Connect the iPod to power (either the adaptor or computer) and hold down both "play" and "menu" at the same time for about 5 seconds (I believe). The Apple logo should appear. This essentially zaps the iPod's RAM (or is it ROM, I don't actually know) and changes all settings to factory default. I've had problems solved this way on my 5gb iPod, but, having only used it on a Mac, I've never run into your specific problem.
I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
The simple solution is to back up the data from the iPod, and format it using Apple's software updater on their website.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120 236
Then start over with iTunes. Should work. The only reason its failing is because they initially tried getting it to work with a file system hack (Xplay). Using the PC updater above for iPod 1.3 will make the iPod into a PC 5 GB or 10 GB or 20 GB iPod ( the hardware is absolutely the same be it PC or Mac compatible, just the software is different ) and Windows iTunes will work properly with it.
First that suspect netinfo article, now this? This is a bit FUDish methinks...Apple does not support this configuration.
Are we just trying to get the Apple people riled up this week?
Would somebody please tell me why they can't make a filesystem (or filesystem family) that preserves the basic functionality common to all filesystems but supports all the bells and whistles (resource forks, metainfo, etc.) needed to keep the various operating systems happy and can therefore be used with multiple machines with different OSs without jumping through hoops? I'm not saying every machine should use the same FS, I'm just saying there should be a basic standard that allows full functionality for any one OS and basic functionality for any given OS. And if there is one, why isn't anyone using it? It's not like this is an unusual issue - (CD/DVD)(+/-)(RW)s, floppy/zip disks, and portable drives of all kinds have had this problem for as long as I can remember. Why should finding/reading/writing/indexing a string of bits or grouping a bunch of files in a heirarchy readable to any machine be so troublesome?
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Because even the most well-written OS will crash if a kernel-mode driver is buggy.
Why does a music app need a kernel-mode driver? Thats the question you should be asking.
About the only thing that can be laid on Apple's feet is that iTunes should refuse to attempt to connect to the iPod in question. Nothing reported suggests that the iPod doesn't still work with the Mac, which is all it was sold to do. In fact it specifically says do NOT use it with Windows. XPlay is an unsupported hack, so as far as Apple is concerned the iPod in question never worked with Windows, so the fact that it still doesn't now really isn't an issue.
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
"Apple hardware is for real computer lovers."
"It's no hassle to use a plethora of keyboard combos to make up for the patronising one-button mouse. Despite the fact that my hands have FIVE fingers, and multiple-buttons make Web browsing so much more pleasant, I prefer my computer to be treat me like a special-needs child."
Hey now! My special needs 4 year old can run a 3 button mouse just fine, thank you very much!
I'd suggest you use an ape or other animal in your comparison, but honestly, that wouldnt be fair to the animals.
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
If I understand correctly then there's a "Mac ipod" and a "Windows ipod"? I've browsed the apple store and certainly not had this distinction leap out at me. If Apple is relying on people reading this fine print in order to avoid buying "the wrong kind" of ipod, I'd say that it's Apple responsibility to do far better than that. I hope my understanding is inaccurate, but if not then it's just like a car dealer forcing car buyers to read fine print to see if the car includes the "reverse" gear, something they'll probably not catch otherwise.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
Quit thinking that Apple cares about you.
They don't. They care about money. Just like every other company. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a lyer.
I'm just amazed at all of the disillusioned mac fanatics that are just now realizing that steve jobs and co really really don't give a damn about them.
This was not done on purpose; it was buy a sole developer, and not a decision by Apple.
If this is true, then it's a pretty damning indictment of Apple's software development model.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Not sure what the intuitiveness of a Mac has to do with an iPod manual, but the guy is obviously a Windows user (if not both), so he's probably accustomed to manuals.
Moof.
"My iBook was made by in Taiwan by AlphaTop and has design and build quality flaws (needing foam sheets jammed in to stop the common problem of the keyboard scratching the screen). But it's silvery and cost far more than an x86 laptop of better spec, so it must be much higher quality!"
;-)
This is *so* not true. Mac Zealots would never say something like that. The iBook was built by AsusAlpha (AlphaTop recently merged with Asus). And it's white.
Who put this on front page? I mean, IE crashed on me, should I put that on front page of /.?
you use an iPod that was built for Mac only back in the days of Mac only iPods and PC only iPods, then you complain when you start using your mac only iPod on a PC and it does not work?
those damn bastards....Sony did the same thing to me when I bought my Betamax VCR, the damn machine would not accept newer VHS tapes!!! I had to get a new VCR!!!
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
of the LG/Linux incident?
A bit of statistics for you: over 1 million people have downloaded iTunes for windows. 13 people have posted on Liam's thread, only 6 of whom are having this problem. If we generously estimated that this accounts for only one-half of 1% of the people actually having this issue, that still means that there are perhaps 1200 people of the over one million who downloaded the software who have had it not work properly with (unsupported) hardware.
I'm thinking that it's a bad idea to expect something to work when Apple said it wouldn't, but it's a *really* bad idea to act like the whole world is having this problem when you're actually in an infinitesimal minority.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
Correction: Everything is supposed to "just work" on a Mac. The problem arised when trying to use a Mac iPod on a Windows machine. First gen. iPods only supported Macs, so no, it's not going to "just work."
Informing yourself before you post will save everyone a lot of time in the future.
Moof.
/me will watch for 5GB iPods to proliferate on ebay in the next month. Yay me!
What does it mean to wake out of a dream
and be wearing someone else's shorts?
BNL, Born on a Pirate Ship (1998)
Not that I care, given that anything by Apple disinterests me, but it's somewhat fun to see all these hypocrites justify their biases.
Look at some of the people here. They were arguing with me that the iPod was cross-platform. "Use it as a hard drive to move files between Mac and PC" was something I heard quite often.
I hate Mac zealots. Period. And damn near every Mac user seems to be a diehard zealot.
...that are pushing the panic button and riding through the streets yelling 'the sky is falling'. all this before actual documentation that the problem even exists and is caused, purposely, by apple. no i think you turds are right on the money. a billion dollar company wants to re-sell the same device to the same customers. they hatch a plot to break those devices thinking that the customers will be so satisfied with their user experience that they will go out and drop another $300 on the same device and not say one word or ask any questions. that reasoning is much more plausable than a few devices, in the hands of idiot users who have yet to master their microwave ovens, going tits-up for normal reasons like hard drive failure or spyware infestation on the host computer.
I use the same rationale for Windows(granted I am an ex-windows user now).
Every used Windows Media Player on Mac. It blows. The now defunct IE? It sucked so bad that Microsoft stopped making it because a 1.0 piece of software(Safari) tore it apart.
Did you ever think of maybe... Registering or buying Quicktime. Tell me which other player that you use has the capability to transcode the video into other formats? If you are going to use Open-Source use it... don't complain about people trying to make a business model for their company.
Some people really push it to the limit. They use a product for what they think it should do, and not for what it's supposed to do. The fact you were using iTunes on a PC when you connected your iPod wasn't a hint from Apple telling you to go ahead. I mean come on, I know it must be sad to break an iPod so stupidly, but instead of bashing Apple why don't you just learn an important lesson from it? Risk whatever you want to risk with your tests, but don't blame others for your mistakes.
Diego Rey
diegoT
i like smokin pot, lets use that in a metaphor
there's an apple developer center? apple has developers? I thought apple had their computers made in a candy factory, with all that sugar coating.
developers? you don't say...
Anyone figured out yet how to extract the local machine key wherever Apple's iTunes hides it on XP (it might be in the "SC Info.sidb" file, but it could be elsewhere too, or scattered around the system)? Once you have the machine key, you should be able to extract an iTunes ID key that the machine is authorized for. Once you have that key, you should be able to remove the DRM from the AAC file and have a truly useful, AAC file, one you bought and paid for, and that you will use ethically and legally within the bounds of fair use. So, has anyone been able to yet?
I'm guessing each DRM-encoded AAC file has a unique symmetric cipher key embedded in it, and the iTunes ID. The iTunes app. uses the cleartext iTunes ID to look up the ID's key in the "SC Info.sidb" file (which itself is probably encrypted using the machine's key) and obtain the key for that ID. Using the ID key, the unique AAC file key is decrypted, then the audio played. Makes sense.
Ok. let me get this straight. So you're using software (Xplay) that's completely unsupported by Apple, and in fact, has nothing to do with Apple, in order to use a product (the 5gb iPod) which specifically was sold as being Mac-only, on a Windows machine.
It didn't work. It broke your iPod. Now you want Apple to fix it. You're mad because they won't.
Every product is sold with instructions detailing how it is to be used. You did not follow the instructions. Seems pretty straightforward to me. It's not like you didn't *know* that using that version of the iPod with Windows was unsupported, you just chose to ignore the fact.
Interesting.
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
Funny. And probably because it's true.
Except for maybe the last one.
The PPC970 (AKA G5) doesn't seem to
suck.
All your base are belong to Apple.
[Apple, which makes money not by monopolizing but by being shrewd and not giving customers much they didn't pay for.]
Weird... my iPod stopped working when I tried inserting it in the DVD drive, and the bastards won't support that either.
> (
Diego Rey
diegoT
All third-generation iPods (the ones you can buy from Apple these days) ship as Mac iPods, but the included Windows software will convert it to a Windows iPod.
(If I recall correctly, first-generation iPods were Mac only (although it wasn't all that hard to hack together support for Windows, since the HFS+ filesystem is well doccumented, so it didn't stop some people), and second-generation iPods came in distinct retail Mac and Windows flavors that were pre-loaded with the appropiate filesystem.)
Dear Father Randy,
What are you wearing?
with even more homosexuality,
Steve Jobs
Apple Corp. CEO
However, given that the 5GB iPod was Mac-only, I don't see how they can get around the fact that they did something completely and utterly unsupported, knowingly. I flashed a firmware upgrade (against the manufacturer's advice) to a firewire enclosure recently and fried it. Should the manufacturer give me a new enclosure? I don't think so.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
I hate Mac zealots. Period. And damn near every Mac user seems to be a diehard zealot.
Luckily, there numbers are fewer than linux zealots or they might cause a problem..
That's something I've been wondering
When you install Windows iTunes it installs a background service for running the iPod, which sits there, using up memory and cpu time looking to see if you've got an iPod plugged in
What's the need of this for all the people who installed iTunes, but don't own an iPod? Surely there should be a seperate iPod service install (or install option in iTunes) that you run if you actually have an iPod
I disabled the service and it hasn't had any obvious effect on the operation of iTunes
Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
But the bottom line is that nobody should ever have used a Mac iPod on a PC in the first place.
Damn straight!
They should have simply bought two iPods. Damned techno-anarchists, trying to deprive poor Apple of another $400!
Regardless of what Apple may have claimed since day one, generally getting something "for PC" or "For Mac" only meant which drivers it included. If you could connect it to the same type of port and run it driverless, you could use it on either. Ethernet-connected "Apple-only" PCL6 printer? Yeah, right, whatever, smoke s'more, Jobs.
Macs and PCs can have identical ports because the things you connect to them simply don't care about the host OS, only its own drivers. Saying it only works on one or the other OS boils down to nothing more than poor driver support (though in this case, only on the PC side, the largest potential market for iPods - Once again demonstrating Apple's disdain for its user base).
"Switch: So you can go out and buy the same peripherals you already own in a different pastel color".
HFS plus windows mac --> X file system code for windows is / does already exist, plus it would save a lot of users from reformatting.
If Apple is unable to source a 30Kb driver, then maybe they should open source parts of itunes so the apple community can show how lame their windows team was. File system conversion code is in the BSD tree- free. Wonder if emulators.com IS the solution.
The iPod and players like it are just glorified hard drives. According to the post from Apple's FAQ, the reason they are not cross compatable is due to hard drive formats. This is understandable.
What isn't understandable is that the device actually seems to break when you use it on the wrong system. If you insert a formatted disk/harddrive into a computer of another architecture, does your OS of choice a. read the data, b. not read the data, c. ask you to format the disk or d. completely mess up the data on the disk? I don't think any OS or software should perform choice d., but that appears to be what iTunes is doing.
iTunes for Windows may not work with Mac iPods (no big deal, understandable), but it should not break them. This is a bad design. I'd be interested to hear what the Mac version of iTunes does with Windows iPods. The FAQ post says you can reconfigure Windows ones to work on the Mac but I wonder if Mac iTunes messes up the data first.
"Read and memorize the entire manual or your product will break" is the attitude that Apple made billions revolting against.
The old Apple would have gone an extra half mile and made iTunes recognize if an iPod is of the wrong kind, and popped up a nice little informative error message for it, rather than blindly proceed and destroy the iPod!
These things aren't really hard, yuo just have to have the right mentality to even think of them. Some say Jobs only cares about cool looks. This does nothing to dispel that notion.
Yeh but they've been fucking firewire wire drives on the Jaguar install, and about 2 weeks before that there was some network issue wasn't there with some botched upgrade.
I'm not sure i buy all this apple does not give a shit, shit. but they really ought to do some decent testing, wiping peoples backups they made to install 10.3 in the installation of 10.3 would make me instantly never go back. as it is a friend of mine has just given me a quickish g4 (no ram/hdd but i put them in myself) and i quite like it, but do i _really_ want it seeing my samba shares as it may wipe them!!!!
I dunno, trying to capture that 80% of the home PC market still dominated by Windows?
This must be the lamest excuse I've ever heard for a poor product. C'mon, Apple isn't some $10 start-up run by preteens; it's a large, experienced software/hardware company, and they shouldn't be screwing things like this up. If MS were shown this much latitude, people would be screaming blue murder.
People *are* screaming blue murder... but usually for more interesting stuff than MS saying "We're not supporting that function that it says on the box we don't support." More like, "We're not supporting the ability to back up your OS install."
Come on, the device wasn't supposed to work on Windows, the guy got it working, then he used different software and it didn't work anymore. Just for those tracks, of course... still apparently works fine for everything else. How can you hold the vendor responsible for *this*?
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
I tried viewing this page with old Netscape (4.79) on my Macintosh (it's an old Macintosh). I normally read Slashdot in 'light' mode.
For some reason, loading up the article/comments page 'broke' and shifted to not-logged-in and turned into a glacial undertaking. All those banner ads and the mess that I seldom see emerged.
As I sit, waiting for it to load and noticing the flashing bitmaps and mess, a banner ad for the Creative Nomad appears....
Hmmm....
A Good Intro to NetBS
But surely that's not the issue
Surely Apple itself, being the maker of the iPod was perfectly aware that old iPods are Mac-only, meaning that iTunes on Windows should just say "sorry, this iPod is not compatible with iTunes for Windows" rather than just ignoring that fact and breaking the thing.
Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!
and several hundred bucks for an ipod? maybe you deserve to suffer for your stupidity...
and 50 cum-gobbling Gate's fanboys, RTFA!
As of kernel 2.4.22, HFS+ support is part of the official kernel; however, it's still suggested to get the latest and greatest version here.
I recently acquired a new third-generation iPod and decided that following the steps to convert it to a fat32 filesystem in Linux was scarrier than compiling hfs+ support into my kernel. (Besides, I thought it would be fun to run some arbitrary filesystem. :) )
You might try using something like MacDrive. It is a PC .EXE that allows Windows to read an HFS+ Mac HD. I have heard that this fixes the exact same problem though I have no personal experience whatsoever. Just google for it; the only link I have is a torrent.
What has that to do with Windows ?-)
Seriously, thought... Why does Windows lock up/crash/start behaving oddly when an application does something it shouldn't ? The memory protection and pre-emptive multitasking are AFAIK implemented by the CPU, so I simply don't understand how applications can corrupt operating systems data or lock up the machine, unless there's both serious locking bugs (causing a deadlock) and lack of sanity checks on data passed to system calls...
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
You're kidding, right? I mean, who does _that_?
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
"When I called Apple, they stated that they simply don't support the use of the older Mac iPods on PC's and are not responsible, even though they admit that it was their own software that caused this."
Or there's:
"but when we installed iTunes for the PC the iPod stopped working"
Now we don't even bother reading the article posted directly above our replies? He's saying second-party software worked perfectly (Xplay) but when he installed Apples own iTunes software the players stopped working. Bad Apple.
Quack, quack.
Kinda like using a 120-volt US toy in a 240-volt Chinese outlet. If the plug fits, eh? Whoops!
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Why should finding/reading/writing/indexing a string of bits or grouping a bunch of files in a heirarchy readable to any machine be so troublesome?
Because developers are lazy and stupid. Because they don't think about all the different situations that a filesystem might need to encounter. Because it's faster to NOT support every feature and many times that's why.
CD-ROM disks work everywhere, but they don't support much of anything. Many times they can't even support very long file names, let alone metadata.
Regardless of what Apple may have claimed since day one, generally getting something "for PC" or "For Mac" only meant which drivers it included. If you could connect it to the same type of port and run it driverless, you could use it on either. Ethernet-connected "Apple-only" PCL6 printer? Yeah, right, whatever, smoke s'more, Jobs.
Does anyone remember buying pre-formatted 3.5" floppy disks? They would say "for Mac" or "for Windows" on the box, right? Again, poor driver support, right?
The iPod is a drive... it's formatted in the file system appropriate to the machine it's used on. Has nothing to do with the drivers or ports. Sure, there's some software for the PC that will let you use your HFS+ formatted, first-generation iPod with it... iTunes isn't of this variety.
Even the newest iPods have to be formatted for Windows before they are used under Windows. But the included software does that for you now.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
What part of "not supported" was not understood?
The same "not supported" that Microsoft used as an excuse five years ago when some flavors of Windows crashed instantly when connected to Linux/Samba?
Yes, I think it is the same "not supported" that is not understood here.
Apple has done this for years people! wake up!
Yes I have all the three components.
The 5GB iPod was Mac Formatted.
I have the latest XPlay
iTunes 4.1.1
MacDrive 5.x
So far My iPod is working with no problem at all.
Except now that iTunes for Windows no longer recognized my Mac-Formatted iPod
I was able to transfer and mange songs on my 5GB iPod using my Winder$ machine.
I'd rather use it with my Mac though!
This is a bad argument. There are programs that allow Mac-only iPods to work on Windows, and other OSes. There is no excuse for iTunes not being able to do the same. And no, it's not about "just working" on a Mac - it's about "just working" with iTunes, whatever OS Apple decides to port it to.
As others pointed out, this is likely a strategy by Apple to sell more iPods that are now "compatible".
Getting rid of Apple zealotry will do the same.
But only references 1 iPod with the problem.
Is this with one iPod or more?
My 5g iPod is working fine.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
fyi, no, the plug doesn't fit
People try to use an iPod on a PC that is Mac specific and wonder why it does not work. Why don't they complain about Mac software not working with Windows either?
I found this article very interesting, because it appears to betray two trends in Apple software: those of constricting hardware compatibility, and reduced technical quality.
Before I launch in to my tirade, I need to preface that I am a Mac user, have been for a long time, and will probably remain so for the forseable future. I think Apple hardware is very good, and broadly have had a more positive experience with Apple OS software (especially OS X), than Windows. I want Apple to succeed.
That said, I'm becoming increasingly frustrated by some software design decisions at Apple, and the company's smug responses -- when it responds at all.
There's been a lot of new software released from Apple recently, including iTunes for Windows, OS X 10.3 "Panther," and the 10.2.8 update, among others, that have suffered some surprisingly serious flaws. By themselves, any one of them might be acceptable, but taken together, the issues can become infuriating. Some may be design decisions on Apple's part, some are just dumb, some are legitimately not really Apple's problem except to the degree they're a problem for Apple's customers, and others are probably bugs due to poor testing.
Here's a short list --
10.3:
Filevault deletes files
FireWire hard drives self destruct
Poor removable drive support
Minimal 3rd party video card support
Wake from sleep problems (OS X releases always seem to have wake from sleep problems...)
SMB & Other network browsing probems
Other misc networking problems
Vanished monitor resolutions with 3rd party monitors
Dozens of less debilitating problems, unusable features, and long-standing unfixed bugs.
10.2.8 Initial release:
Complete fiasco -- update pulled
iTunes for Windows:
Doesn't work with 1st generation iPods
Most troubling are the failures of non-Apple hardware and lack of support for older hardware configurations: iTunes & first generation iPod; non-Apple monitors; non-Apple video cards; apparently intentionally killing "hacking" to enable additional optical drive support (this shouldn't really be a reasonable complaint, but Apple doesn't support very many CD-RW, etc drives out of the box, so it was the only way to get at least marginal functionality for many drives); and Apple's awareness of the FireWire issue, shipping the OS in a state that could cause data loss, and a belated update to alleviate the problem. Enough of these kinds of issues, or failure for Apple to talk openly about them, could make people suspect that Apple is acting out of arrogance.
So I hope this isn't, or doesn't become, a pattern. I also think it would also be in Apple's best interest to improve its prerelease testing; almost all the bugs/issues noted above were discovered within hours of release. If Apple wants to broaden its user base, it will be helpful if it can be taken seriously on the topic of hardware compatibility. I do want Apple to succeed.
I thikn they need to re-title that software to iShit. I checked on Apple's behalf, and iShit.com is available. I say go for it.
Did the "READ ME" file not say that iTunes for Windows was supported by certain iPods?
Caveat Emptor!
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
You're missing the point, which is that you shouldn't have to buy a new iPod because you use a different OS. This is just the latest in a long line of examples of Apple's abandonment of their own hardware. Ignoring quality, compatibility, ease of use, price, value, and performance, the one and only reason why I think Apple really sucks is because they consistently pull shit like this with the iPod.
Nearly every new Power Mac uses a totally different architecture, forcing upgraders to buy not only a new OS but all new software as well. You're also locked into the Apple OS and expensive proprietary hardware (with a few exceptions). Apple has abandoned each batch of customers since the first PCs they created. If Windows has only one single advantage over the Macintosh OS, it is that it will work with all previous generations of x86 PCs back to the 386 -- and there are very, very few hardware devices that it does not work with. I'm no fan of Windows at all, and I hate Microsoft, but I'd buy Microsoft's crap forever if the only alternative were Apple.
-JemIf one can't 17MB files to an iPod, how is one supposed to play the greatest psych-rock song ever? Seems like a pretty bad design flaw to me.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
I think we have that cluster, and it is called slashdot!
Really, it shouldn't matter if it's plugged up to a 'PC' or a Mac. Any 'problem' doing so is placed there artificially.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
I learned long ago that Apple will abandon their loyal customers at the drop of a hat. I've seen it over and over.
The most recent incident was with a friend who is a Mac user. He upgraded the software on the Mac and then discovered that his Apple printer would not work. When he contacted Apple they told him they don't support that printer anymore. Their solution...buy a new printer.
I'm not a Microsoft fan either but at least they have a fair track record for application backward compatibility. (I'm ignoring their file compatibility issues between versions here.)
Ahhhh, the benefits of DRM!
I actually have zero proof that DRM is the issue. I'd just like to take any opportunity I can to undercut it. I'd work Microsoft into my fingerpointing, but someone has done a fine job of that already.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
Boy did YOU get ripped off... Exactly how do you figure it at 500 bucks for 10.3? My copy was only $130^H^H^H400, wanna buy a few copies off of me at a discount?
-matt
Regardless of what Apple may have claimed since day one, generally getting something "for PC" or "For Mac" only meant which drivers it included. If you could connect it to the same type of port and run it driverless, you could use it on either. Ethernet-connected "Apple-only" PCL6 printer? Yeah, right, whatever, smoke s'more, Jobs.
Obviously it's NOT the driver. Earlier in the thread, in the manual and pretty much anywhere else you will learn quickly that the file system on a mac-formatted iPod is HFS and the file system on a PC-formatted iPod is FAT32. Nothing to do with drivers.
When it's a printer, or scanner, or other type of I/O peripheral it shouldn't matter about the OS when you connect it. But when the peripheral is a secondary storage device (ie an iPod) it really bloody matters how the OS looks at it.
Stop Whining
All your database are belong to us
But that's all Apple has... fanatics.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
You spent $500 for Panther? I'm hoping you are talking about OSX Server and not the client edition. Otherwise you really got reamed bud.
Gen 1 -- Mac only
Gen 2 -- specific Mac and PC versions
Gen 3 -- Both types of support with included USB2 adaptor
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Sure, if you felt like tipping the Apple Store guys $370.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
for being an Apple user. As a happy user of one of the earlier iPods I am very disappointed with Apples lack of support. But considering Apple follows the Sony model of consumer electronics which is basically to obsolete the previous generation every 3 months it comes as no surprise. My old iPod now sits unused next to my Apple Newton and Sony MiniDisc. I will use it again mainly when traveling but it's lost its shine.
I still love my G4 with Panther though. But Apple and consumer electronics don't mix.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
I used my 15 gig ipod for about 2 months with my xp box until my g5 came. I had no problems I just reformatted with the ipod update utility which wiped and restored it to factory cleanliness (minus a few scratches).
Someone with windows could format their ipods the same way but in reverse. A simple search on the apple support site yielded these instructions on how to do so.
All ye all ye outs in free!
And in which case he would be comparing dissimilar OSes, as Windows 2000/2003 servers run $1000 at the low end, IIRC.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
... when I tried to use my Windows FAT32 ipod on a Mac. What was happening is that the software uses different libraries on windows or on mac, and the ipod software was corrupting it by overwriting the old library. The newest version of iTunes on mac will warn you that it will overwrite the old library, but obviously the windows version doesn't give this warning yet.
I have a first-generation 5GB iPod for Mac that was given to me as a gift. I run Red Hat on my desk, so I found gtkpod and gnupod to make it work. I have since formatted back and forth between Win and Mac filesystems (recently got a G4 Powerbook) several times as a test, and it works fine. There should therefore be no reason at all why an iTunes update would corrupt the firmware irreparably, as it appears to have done from the posters' descriptions, aside from buggy or sloppy programing. (Or malice.)
As far as I can tell, the only difference between the two "versions" of the iPod is the filesystem with which the drive is formatted (HFS+ for Mac, VFAT for Win). Other than that, the hardware is exactly the same. (If you think about it, making two different types of hardware would have been prohibitively expensive from a manufacturing standpoint.) Unless someone can provide specific hardware details to the contrary, I'd say Apple is definitely screwing the pooch here.
Sounds just like a problem I had with an HP scanner. I bought an HP ScanJet (think it was a 2200C) scanner last October, and it was working just fine with my Windows 98 setup at the time. I installed XP in February and the drivers on the CD bundled with the monitor sent commands that caused the scanner to push the scan head beyond its tolerance. HP denied their drivers were at fault, and even if it was their drivers, the scanner was out of warranty so they wouldn't talk to me without me paying $25 for the privilege anyway.
The only problem the ipod has is that it's non-free.
Most people in a capitalist society would call that a feature.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
OK, I actually agree with you on this. Linux doesn't want to be anything, and in a lot of ways it's better than any MacOS.
You're way offbase on that one. It is very nice hardware, and the one-button mouse crap is a myth, admittedly one that is based on facts, but those facts are long past. Macs work just fine with any fancy mouse you want to throw at them. I have a logitech optical for gaming, and a trackball that's nice to ease the wrist strain while working all day, both with several buttons and both work fine on the Mac. The only remnant of the one-button days is that you can still do everything with a one button mouse if you want - because if you click and hold for a bit it's interpreted the same way as a right-click is. Which is actually a very elegant design point - the folks that really do get confused by having too many buttons can get around still, but without inconvencing the rest of us in the slightest.
I'm no Aqua fan, in fact I've been bitching about it since the first pre-release screenshots showed up. It's a steaming pile of... well you know. But it's still better than Windows in every way, and a lot less confusing for the 'typical user' than trying to setup a consistent X-Win system.
You're right, it shows nothing of the sort. But they still do deserve a little applause for releasing Darwin and fixing the license up, it's not a bad thing, although I have seen one or two people exagerate it as you're portraying.
As another poster already pointed out, your 'facts' on this one were sheer fiction.
Your 'facts' on this one are just as bad, or maybe even worse. The G5s can keep up with the 3ghz P4 just fine, thank you, and blow them out of the water on code that's properly optimised for them, all the while using less electrity and making less heat.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
...improve them after four years...
Seriously, Apple made the most recent iPods cross-platform capable out of the box -- I'd call that an improvement over the earlier models...what do you want them to do, go back in time and implant old iPods with the ASICs that will allow them to accept firmware flashing that will allow them to be cross-platform capable?
I hardly think this ranks as a grand conspiritorial strategy on Apple's part.
P.S. Getting rid of people who call other people 'zealots' would really save everyone a lot of time in the future...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
You're right because it's so damn tough to burn those songs out to a CD and rip them back as MP3, WMA, or whatever. It's also so damn tough to get one of the dozens of programs that capture the raw audio coming out of iTunes and encode it into another format.
Oh wait, that was sarcasm for those who are sarcasm-impared. It is the easiest thing in the world to convert an Apple encrypted AAC file to whatever format you want. The fact is that Apple's encrypted AAC files just barely have any DRM attached to them. It's just enough to appease the record industry and allow Apple to sell music, while really not stopping you from doing whatever the hell you want with it.
Face it, short of going out and buying physical CDs for a premium price (which is even worse if you only want 1 song off the album) you are not going to be able to get much music legally without some sort of DRM. Apple's iTunes Music Store has the least invasive DRM of all the stores out there and it's very unlikely that anyone will top it.
Sapere aude!
There is no story here.
Not silly when apple claims windows support for iPods, unless you have had your head in the sand (or, uh, elsewhere ;>) and haven't seen their TV commercials to that effect. They support windows, and using their device with windows fries the device. That is not acceptable, I don't care who the the vendors of the OS and device are. If older iPods simply weren't able to interface with windows, that would be one thing. Actually having them fail in permanent fashion is quite another.
Switch things around - if MS made a device that fatally shit itself when interfacing with Mac OS, you know that you, me, and most other people on this site would be screaming bloody murder about MS, all the while laughing at the fools who bought the device.
In the name of avoiding hypocrisy, Apple now deserves the same contempt we'd be heaping on MS for the same feat.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Wow man... you have some serious issues. Hopefully by the time you're old enough to drive a car you'll have outgrown the angry idiot stage of your life.
Ah. Then IHBT. IHL. HAND. Glad to hear your trip went well, though.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
"I've been holding off on getting a new iPod for exactly the reason that Apple only cares about the first sale"
I find this to be so opposite the experience of myself and a number of aquaintances, not that that negates your experience...My brother-in-law had problems a few months deep with his 2nd gen iPod and Apple replaced the unit two times, until he had one that worked well, no charge. I have had three iPods and not one of them has been problematic. But like I said, anecdotal evidence at best.
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
As others have also pointed out, it seems that the newer iPods all ship with software to format an iPod so that a Windows machine will recognize it (I understand that this software is also downloadable from apple.com?).. So I don't see this as a stunt to sell more units.
And yeah, as you stated, there's some software that allows Mac only iPods to run on windows, I can't vouche for how stable that software is compared to iTunes, nor can I vouche for any of the other specifics, so i'll just leave it at the fact that there's a Mac iPod, and a Windows iPod, so pick the one that best suits you.
-matt
"A chepo 64MB Compact Flash card will play more than an hour of music. A 1 or 2 gig card will carry more than half of your music collection, in all free formats as easy to move as coppying files."
My music collection is 12 gigs. And that's just what I have ripped legally off CDs I have. Most is at 192 kbps. And yes, I can tell the difference between that and even 160.
http://www.ephpod.com
ephpod > itunes
ephpod > musicmatch
They have electricity in china now ????
The new iTunes also broke my ability to use Music Match with my v2 iPod on Windows. More specifically, it seemed to delete the old iPod manager application and replace it with a service. Fine by me, except that Music Match isn't compatible with the new service.
Uninstalling iTunes and reinstalling the old manager (available only on the iPod driver CD) fixed things up.
I was hoping that I could use both iTunes and Music Match, but for now I think I'll stick with Music Match. Its a little harder to use, but can do a hell of a lot more (Supertagging, ripping at greater than 2.5x, etc.)
SPAM
"Does anyone remember buying pre-formatted 3.5" floppy disks? They would say "for Mac" or "for Windows" on the box, right? Again, poor driver support, right?"
Yes, I remember those disks. I also remember using said disks in Macs without a problem for at least a few years. I also "remember" CD-Rs. And remember no problems with getting the opposing system to read them. I also "remember" flash drives. And remember... well, you get the idea.
Why couldn't Apple use a filesystem that both machines know?
LIE...tell them it just stopped working, and don't give details. Maybe they'll give you a new one. Works with DELL....
and I'm posting anonymously so I don't look like an idiot... I have a second generation 20 GB iPod that I just reformatted for use with Windows (since I no longer have a Mac). What I want to know is, now that my iPod is re-formatted, how do I get the firmware release 1.3 re-installed? (The 2.0 release is incompatible with this iPod) Can this be done using my Windows XP machine? And, if not, can I hook the iPod back up to a friend's Mac, and install the firmware, even though the iPod is now formatted under the Windows file system?
God I love it when I get to meta-moderate anti-ms moderators.
To Cliff:
First, I'm a lot less suspicious of Apple's motives than I am of yours.
Here are the actual steps to solve your problem, Cliff, if you really are interested in just getting your old iPod to work on Windows with iTunes. I just now verified this works on my Windows XP with powered FireWire and an original iPod, bought before Windows was supported (in fact, I'm listening to it as I type this):
1. Download the 1.3 Windows updater for iPod. It's a setup.exe file. Here's the URL:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/download/
You'll have to login using your AppleID. Don't have one? It's free. Create one.
2. After you restart your machine, launch the Updater by going to the Start Menu and selecting iPod->System Software 1.3->Updater.
3. Connect the iPod and wait for the Restore button to become active.
4. Press the Restore button. This will make it a FAT32 (aka Windows file system) iPod.
5. When prompted, disconnect, then reconnect the iPod and let it update itself.
6. When the iPod gets back on the desktop, launch iTunes and sync away. Your iPod should now play songs as well as sync them.
Windows doesn't support HFS+ (aka Mac file system). Apple can't control Microsoft, and they can't control third parties that try to add HFS+ support to Windows, either. So, if you don't own a product, should customers expect you to support it? No. It's not your product. MediaFour's XPlay, which you said you used, relies on their own driver for HFS+ support. If you bought an **original** iPod, you knew this, and you also knew use of Mac iPods on Windows wasn't supported. I don't see how you possibly could not have.
Love, Squeedle
There are programs that allow Mac-only iPods to work on Windows, and other OSes. There is no excuse for iTunes not being able to do the same. And no, it's not about "just working" on a Mac - it's about "just working" with iTunes, whatever OS Apple decides to port it to.
There is a perfectly good excuse. Apple chose not to include this feature. Why? I dunno, maybe it would have been a good one to include. But maybe it caused other problems with the software, or their UI guys said it would just confuse people who couldn't use their old, out-of-the-box Mac iPod software on their Windows machine.
If you want to say "Hey, this is a feature Apple should have included," go ahead, but don't act like it's a bug that they didn't.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
By replacing key os files with shit apple wrote, dumbass. I could do the same thing with any OS.
... you now have to buy a new iPod every year, just like you do with OS X.
But let's support 'em, people!
" When I called Apple, they stated that they simply don't support the use of the older Mac iPods on PC's and are not responsible, even though they admit that it was their own software that caused this." you think that apple would be a more responsive to the problems customers are having, that sounds like really bad Public Relations that could backfire on them. I has been said and i find myself doing this also, if you have a bad experience with a companies product and the situation is not resolved, the consumer is likely to tell at least 10 others of their bad experience, and those 10 will pass that info on with time also, and so on. what a domino effect! if i was apple id find a good way to reverse this before it happens.
iTunes files have DRM so you can't spread them around, which they HAVE to or they wouldn't be allowed to do it. Obviously the drivers don't transfer the DRM info properly. The iPod isn't broken or fried. It just doesn't play DRM'd files that it hasn't been told it is allowed to play! Apple should NOT be responsible for third party drivers that don't work properly! When you bought the damn thing, it was quite clear about requiring a Mac.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
I had this same thing happen with my 3rd gen 30GB ipod when I uploaded the songs using MusicMatch on the PC and then connected to the Mac. I had to reformat and use either one or the other.
I never did get a resolution to the problem - I just assumed that the different platforms corrupted the database on the ipod.
...and they disavow any responsibility? WTF?
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
or Slashdot? I must have hit the wrong button somewhere. Where can I give a trolling moderation to the posting?
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
A Good Intro to NetBS
Actually I think it's "Most people in any society, anywhere, just don't give a rat's ass."
'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
I experienced the problem with every track appearing truncated to zero seconds after I lent my PC iPod to a Mac person who connected it to iTunes, hoping to loot some of my vintage DJ mixes. iTunes fucked it up, stupid program. On my PC I used Ephpod, which didn't manage to restore the fucked up files, but at least it could re-generate a working file system so I could copy the songs in anew and things kept right on working. Ephpod is nice also because it lets you share music files without the DRM bullshit.
I have an original 5GB ipod, just installed iTunes for windows, formatted it for windows and imported the music...works like a champ.
:(
I took a chance...i haven't used the iPod since my 15" pb died
Why is it that every single post in this thread that casts any doubt on Apple is modded as troll or flamebait while anything and everything for them or against Microsoft (which really has no place in this story) gets bonus points. I know slashdot is biased but not that biased.
Face it, Apple has a history of screwing users of their older products. Every significant upgrade to their computer hardware or OS required people to purchase new software. And people wonder why Apple computers aren't that popular. Apple is just lucky they have a fan club that will instantly gobbel up anything that comes out of Steve Job's ass (example, the LSD inspiered crapolicous original iMac).
This is not a case of Windows iTunes simply not supporting old iPods, its a case of them breaking old iPod's perminatly. If Apple programers had any sense they would make it so iTunes tells you it does not support your iPod and prevents it from interfacing with it at all. Yes Apple says these old iPods are not for use with Windows, but I don't remeber seeing a Surgeon General's Warning on the side of the box making it obvious that using them with Windows would be hazardous to their health. Considering USB Firewire AND iTunes is the same for Windows as it is Mac, its not such a stretch that some undiscerning non-computer nerd will plug thier iPod into their PC, load up iTunes and expect things to work. Apple is supposed to make easy to use fool proof software right? So this is somthing that they should have accounted for.
Now lets compare iPod's behavior with my cheap 128mb Nomad MuVo. iPod must be formated to work with either Mac or Windows, cannot work with both at the same time, older iPods do not work with Windows at all and can apprently break if plugged into a windows box. MuVo works with both Mac and PC simultaneously and most likley Linux too. iPod requires proprietery software to install and run which can be a major pain in the ass if you want to use it on a friends computer. MuVo works on virtually every computer with a USB drive with no software or drivers to install, simply shows up as a Removable Disk Drive. iPod requires that you buy additional hardware just to store pictures on it, much less other files. MuVo allows you to store whatever the fuck you want on it right out of the box.
So the way I see it, the iPod is a really great peice of hardware that is crippled by crappy Apple software, most likley on purpose. It's ironic that so many Linux-thumping slashdoters who are all up on Open software praise Apple, a company that is just as proprietery and close minded as Microsoft, perhaps more so.
You can tell the difference between 192 kbps and 160 kbps but don't use variable bit rate encoding? Your encoder must suck. Move up to ogg and reduce the size of your music files by half. I can't tell the difference between my CDs at 100 kbps average.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The first generation 5 gig iPod was not Windows compatible. No. Never was. Period. If you got it to work, you were lucky, but not supported. The second generation iPod came in 2 versions, one that was Windows compatible and one that was Mac compatible. One intended for one system is not supported to work with the other system. Third generation dual compatible iPods can't just be switched back and forth between a Mac and a Windows machine. An iPod formatted for Mac must be reformatted to work on a Windows machine (Windows does not understand the HFS+ file system). And a iPod formatted for a Windows machine has to be reformatted to be used on a Mac. This is all in the documentation from Apple. Its nuts to blame them for this problem. They didn't support it then and they certainly aren't gonna support it now. Its just another example of "I made a mistake, now I need someone to blame" syndrome that seems to be the rule of thumb these days.
The iPod has 32mb of ram.
b ums->Songs
Into that ram it loads an index, a database, containing all the song information on all the songs: The metadata, the ID3 information, the playcounts, the volume and EQ settings, the ratings, the notes, the extra album info, comments, everything.
It is *because* of this file, this index, this database, that the iPod has a UI par exellance, the most usable, friendly, fast, and efficient UI on any MP3 player.
All iTunes does, in copying music to your iPod, is create a bunch of *normal* folders (which the Finder can do) onto the iPod, and copy the iTunes generated (no even encrypted!) database file onto the iPod (which the Finder can do as well). It's all regular HFS+ or FAT32 files, no voodoo, no magic.
So no extra software is necessary to make the songs playable, but extra software is necessary to make the iPod usable.
If this doesn't make sense, download iTunes, import several thousand songs into it, and use it (ID3 tags, metadata, and everything) for a week. This is *exactly* how the iPod works. Without that very same data used in iTunes, the iPod would be useless (try manually navigating 8.000 songs in a flat, unstructured, list!). iTunes generates several hierarchies through which you can navigate your iPod:
Artists->Songs
Albums->Songs
Songs
Genre->Al
Composers->Songs
Playlists->Songs
All iTunes does is *generate* those structures. You need *something* to generate those structures. Of course, the standard response to the iTunes/iPod naysayer is "I want to create my own genre/artist/album hierarchies in The Finder/Explorer damn it!"
Yeah, feel free, I guess. Me, I enjoy letting iTunes do it for me, and all I have to do is 'click, click, scroll, click' and enjoy.
GPL Deconstructed
Going digital to analog and back might not give you the quality you expect. This, of course, is what the makers of DRM want to force on you. Distribute in crummy and lossy formats that don't copy perfectly. It's a perversion of available technology.
The fact is that Apple's encrypted AAC files just barely have any DRM attached to them. It's just enough to appease the record industry
It's enough to appease the record industy because they can tighten the screws later. They first have to move people to crappy formats and make them think they are gaining something before they take it all away.
Face it, short of going out and buying physical CDs for a premium price ... you are not going to be able to get much music legally without some sort of DRM
Nonsense. People are already providing music that's more reasonable. DRM is unreasonable because no one asked for it and it breaks. The artists themselves are rebelling.
Would you please provide me one good reason not to use free software? All of the above is circular - use it because you must. I've yet to see any advantages of DRM and encumbering new technology with 100 year old limits and more.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
So, what's the "perfectly good reason" if you don't know? Again, some have suggested that they wanted to sell new and more expensive iPods. Is that a good reason? For some, maybe. For previous customers - not really. Maybe Apple is counting, and rightly so, that their existing customers will just suck it up and stay with them anyway even though they got screwed in the marketing process. Or, maybe, if they see a lot of backlash coming on, they'll fix iTunes.
I can't get 40 gig of files on any other device less than 5 x 3 inches, and fit it in my pocket.
Can you ?
With your same reasoning, a Tablet PC is also a piece of crap not worth the money either. But you paid for one, didn't ya ?
Please.
If Apple recognized there was a problem here, they should have put failsafes into their software. If iTunes/WIndows detects one of the old iPods, it should warn the user and not make changes. It should NOT hose the hardware.
Apple is Liable. They damaged hardware they manufactured, and could easily have TESTED against, with their own software. It is 100% their fault, and "warranty disclaimers" in the EULA will not hold up in court when the class action suit fires up.
Next time they should consider hiring a QA department.
The content over at the Apple site is just pathetic on this topic. A bigger set of kissers-of-the-ass-of-Jobs I have never seen.
I love my iBook, but stuff like this makes me ashamed that I support Apple at all...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Well, I don't own one, but new iPods should work with both Windows and Macs - no extra formatting necessary - at least that is my understanding. If that's not so, and users need to re-format their iPods to switch OS, then I take my original claim back. But if I am right, then such compatibility would be a great selling point to older iPod users.
Well, I can't vouch for anything either since it's not my software or my hardware, but Apple could... if they wanted to that is.
" So why are you complaining about it on Slashdot, anyway ?"
Well my guess would be that by putting it a public forum, it actually becomes a PROBLEM for Apple, and something they will have to address.
Remember, we're talking about APPLE software on Windows causing the problem. Grandma Beth doesn't know anything about Mac only or Windows only. SHe only knows this iTunes thingie is supposed to work with her iPod.
Oh, I am a ADC member. THanks for the reminder. As a QA engineer, I might just file a bug report...
Oh wait. Steve Jobs doesn't sign my paycheck.
He can hire his own damn QA staff. Minimal testing by competent engineers that paid attention to how their products were being used in the wild would have prevented this.
It's not like there are hundreds of devices to test against (like in my job). There are only what, 3 or 4 variants on the iPod, with a handfull of firmware or software versions?
Amateur mistake. Not Quality Software at all.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Keep It Simple Stupid.
Realistically, why would you expect a person to even know the difference between a made-for-Mac iPod and a made-for-PC iPod when they both look identical?
If two seemingly identical iPods are not expected to operate the same way, why do they have the same connectors? Hell, even being different colors would help here. White for Mac, and black (or blue or red or chartreuse) for PC.
The bottom line is, even if the operating instructions specifically stated not to use it on another OS, in italics, bolded, and quotated, it should have just refused to load. It should never have BROKEN the hardware to the point where it was worthless with ANY operating system.
Apple needs to fool-proof it better, and send new iPods to those customers whose Apple iPods were broken by Apple software.
Anything less tells me not to recommend iPods to anyone.
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
If you're going to be a MS fanboy then it's generally accepted that you pick the good features of Windows, not it's glaring deficiencies.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Back to the pseudo-topic, we had an excellent time in Elephant Butte, NM. It was the most serene place out of the entire 6,000 miles we drove. I can email you pics if you'd like, but they won't truly capture the serenity we experienced. Didn't make it through Albuquerque, as we had planned -- we ended up taking US-60 and visiting the VLA near Magdalena instead. It was a real nice drive, as almost nobody was on the road. They were shipping in a new satellite dish on top of two huge trucks when we were leaving the VLA -- even though the dish shipment was split into two halves, each half took up both lanes of the road!
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
...and get yourself a new sleak 40 GB iPod. It will hold more music, do more things, play more games and double as a portable firewire drive. And look better to boot.
Actually Apple invented the FireWire standard to replace SCSI back when the average PC was running DOS. They didn't start using it until the later '90s, but it is an Apple product.
t'nera semordnilap
Actually it requires extra hardware to read pictures off of CompactFlash cards, which is understandable. The device itself acts just like your MuVo does, it shows up as an external harddrive, and you can put whatever you want on it. The only weird thing is that the music is hidden, but that is something anyone with more than a novice's experience with computers can work around. There is no limitation on the visible part of the drive though. I have even heard of people installing the Mac OS on their iPods and booting off of them from OpenFirmware.
Also, it does not require proprietary software. Well, maybe officially, but there is plenty of third party stuff that can be used to access the iPod, even in Linux.
Anyway, I do think that Apple's stance on this issue is in poor taste. They should have forseen the fact that a normal computer user might be rightly confused by the whole thing since iTunes is now available and claims to support "The iPod." in general. People shouldn't be expected to understand what incompatible firmware, hard drive formats, and other such things mean.
Really? My word doc won't work if I move it to my PC?
Crap. I'd better stop doing that then, because I've done it successfully for, what, 10 years now?
Oh, wait, let me guess - you wanted to run your Mac APPLICATIONS on your PC. Aw, poor baby, have to go out and spend money like the rest of the world.
Such delusions must, eventually, be crushed. Some people come to accept the world as it is. Others spend countless hours railing against the world, thereby insuring that they can accomplish nothing meaningful. A select few, however, accept the world and try to change it for the better, if only a little.
Hmm. Let me think.
Is it because FAT32 sucks ass?
Because Microsoft has a long track record of taking their established standards and turning them on their heads the minute which feel threatened (see the history of Samba if you need a referesher on this point)?
Do I really need to go on?
Curiously, in my country, the MSRP for OS X is RM499.
ive been checking out itunes lately.
i burnt on a cd-audio an itunes aac file, and then ripped it to an mp3 on my win2k. the original aac was 4:55, the resulting mp3 was 4:55 but complete silence.
another thing i noticed was with itunes music store they don't have some popular bands including aphex twin, the smashing pumpkins, radiohead, and the beatles.
in conclusion p2p softares are still a better way for obtaining mp3s.
also worthy of checking out is rio karma 20. the same hd capacity, about the same physical size as the 20gb ipod. yet cheaper and battery lasts twice as long, plays ogg and its dock has an ethernet port.
i mean, i like apple's itunes + ipod. they're cute looking and i trust that apple in general makes good products. yet drm is cumbersome, and itune music store is littered with typos and ommissions of bands and songs, and lack of features (sometimes i want to search for albums, not individual songs).
in conclusion, im torn whther to go the apple way or not. (and their "lamp" iMacs are really cool!)
The thing about HFS is that you can use characters like " and ? in filenames, which is nice for song titles...
Why use a worse file system if you don't have to? The current solution works well enough, and there is a way to convert if you need to. And you need to be able to copy files from a users computer to the iPod without munging the filename.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple is typically fairly good about fixing problems users -hate-. I wouldn't be shocked to see updated firmware in a week or so.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
A select few, however,
Bwa ha ha ha ha....
Yep. The 'leet Mac users will prevail.
*snort*
Again, poor driver support, right?
The iPod is a drive... it's formatted in the file system appropriate to the machine it's used on. Has nothing to do with the drivers or ports.
Perhaps I look at this somewhat differently, as a firmware engineer (y'know, one of the guys who writes drivers for a living), but I still call it a driver issue.
Rather than forcing users to reformat their iPods as either FAT32 or HFS, Apple could have taken the simple step of writing an Windows driver to add HFS support. No fuss, no muss, complete interoperability.
So considering that, I stand by my point, that this entire issue (regardless of which angle you approach it from) boils down to poor drivers. Had Apple done the job correctly, we would not currently need to have this discussion at all.
the file system on a mac-formatted iPod is HFS and the file system on a PC-formatted iPod is FAT32. Nothing to do with drivers.
People apparently don't understand the meaning of "driver", I think...
If you give Windows the "/SOS" boot flag, it will show you (some of) the drivers it loads on startup. Notice the "ntfs.sys" driver, or "fat32.sys". Nothing stops Windows from also loading an "hfs.sys" as well, except the fact that Apple didn't feel like making life easier for the people willing to shell out $400 on their products.
Sure. Apple will get right on this one, right after:
- providing the promised Security Patches for Jaguar
- fixing Firewire 800 problems in Panther
- providing updates to Safari 1.1 for Jaguar.
I mean, Apple wouldn't just stop supporting a 3 year old iPod any more than they would stop supporting a 1 year old OS. Right? Right?
Please explain why a separate microcontroller system such as the iPod requires a specific host interface when connected through a standard firewire port?
.
Is it easier to mount a native filesystem? Sure. Is it necessary? No. Is it good design? Hell no.
The real bottom line is that it should never have mattered what kind of computer the host was PERIOD
Any other company would be excoriated here for tying one of their products to their OS or other hardware for no reason.
Apple apparently can do no wrong. Even if it means destroying some hardware used "out of spec."
Seriously, their iTunes software should have AT LEAST warned/prevented use of these devices before "updating" them into oblivion.
Any takers?
Well, they have nothing to fix since they didn't break anything. right? right?
They released a software that doesn't work with the oldest iPods, where exactly is the big deal?
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Or, maybe, if they see a lot of backlash coming on, they'll fix iTunes.
Them "fixing" it implies that it's broken. It's NOT.
Ever heard of the bleeding edge? If you buy new hardware when it first comes out, in spite of the fact that it didn't come out yet in the particular flavor you want, usually you expect to have to upgrade or to not get all the functionality you would have gotten if you'd waited. People who bought iPods that actually supported Windows in the first place are using iTunes just fine. Even some people who understand why the first-gen ones don't work right and who have reformatted theirs are able to make it work.
iTunes is *not broken.* It lacks a feature that XPlay and a few other third-party systems have. You can criticize Apple for not including the feature, maybe, if you want to... but acting like they somehow sinned against their customers is kinda ridiculous.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
I have. I've also read CNET, and ephpod's website. One of their early warnings was not to convert a Mac-formatted iPod to FAT32--this was before windows ipods. Now obviously you can do it.
h re adid=3256
But Xplay also notes that if you use Xplay (ie. let it run in the background and mount iPods), your data will become corrupted. They, (unlike Apple), has an update to fix the issue. But Xplay still does not support Apple's AAC files. According to an exchange I had with Mossberg, having standard AAC file support isn't enough, you must also support Apple's encryption scheme. With that warning, *download the update now.*
Hilariously enough, they call it an update to improve database consistency. Euphemisms are.. hilarious.
http://forums.mediafour.com/showthread.php?s=&t
(update to 1.1.3 first of course, I think this might include the patch.)
You will also find many threads in the technical forum describing similar strange issues, and some on how to perform conversion to windows from mac ipod etc.
Evidence suggests that if you uninstall Xplay before synching your iPod with iTunes, you are good. short story: apple doesn't expect any other software to try to synch with it, and when they do, they disable it. (logical, actually--this is what they did with Musicmatch.)
We know (and Apple tells you when you install)
The parent used "gay" as a synonym for "broken." THAT's flamebait. I riff a lighthearted joke to call it out, and I get modded flamebait?
Wait a sec... Apple hardware has impeccable aesthetics, the logo has a rainbo... oh, crap. If I read it that way I'd have modded myself a troll.
Why i always hated apple "nerds" (oh, and apple). Skipping through tracks and not playing sounds like a good song. Almost like "Looking back on the tracks (for a little green bag)."
Thanks, Steve
Thank you moderators for making my point for me more strongly than I could have imagined.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Well, they could have done that (written an HFS driver). But with the newer iPods (2nd and 3rd gen) designed to support Windows, they neatly side-skirted the issue by just making them use FAT. Seems like an elegant enough solution to me. And it doesn't make life any harder for those who buy iPods for use with windows, on first use, it formats automatically, then use as normal.
IF Apple had chosen to implement an HFS driver for windows, people would be able to use older 5GB iPods with Windows as a *bonus*. However, such iPods were never intended to work in this mode, so I see no reason why Apple is too blame that this doesn't work with the new iTunes software. No one ever should have expected it to.
-Spyky
Anyway, its nice to see Apple still proving how shoddy their programmers are.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
You are still missing the point, so let's try again.
Fact: The first generation iPod was only designed to work on the Mac.
Fact: In the manual, it says that it should not be used with Windows.
Fact: Apple doesn't have to support the first gen. iPods (that are Mac-only) on Windows just because there are hacks available to make it work.
You argue that Apple could have hacked iTunes to make the first gen. iPods work, but iTunes isn't a hack. It's an application that Apple is planning on maintaining. Can you still not see how silly it would be for Apple to hack iTunes years later just so first gen. iPods (which are supposed to work only on Macs anyway) can work on Windows?
Moof.
Or I could GET THE PRICE FROM APPLES site and let people who know NOT what they speak off look like idjits ?
:)
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/
I realize that looking b4 posting is not Kosher here but you should try it sometimes
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
errr I wouldn't give apple a dime for going out of business, the price I quoted is STRAIGHT from APPLE's site...sigh fact gathering folks, try it, beats wearing egg salad :) TGIF
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
LOL Bull-EYE, hit that sore spot didn't you. :) I gotta love being called out on the price, the one from Apples site :)
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/
Some people's children SHOULD not be let out at eighteen but rather sealed in...
Take care SpacePunk....TGIF
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Try again. Panther retail is $129.99. The low end retail panther server version is $499.
Mod point free since 2001
Why do I need 2K/2003, XP pro has and runs ALL the same tools right down to the Active Directory tools and plugins. Don't get me wrong not just trying to Bash apple but they charge a premium for both hardware AND software, proprietary and controlled on BOTH ends, but I can use XP pro and perform everything I can under 2K except clustering and some forest prep stuff. You do have a point there though, regarding apples and oranges :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/
seems fairly obvious but Hey Apple MIGHT BE LYING about their price, or MAYBE M$ has compromised thir server and jacked the price to make themselves look better...I am speaking server capable OS here not the client side...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I guess Hell is thawing a little bit.
I did some debugging and found out that iTunes would transfer all my 15GB of to precisely one of the twenty folders on the iPod. My guess is that the iPod could not find the track quickly enough before it would time out and skip to the next track.
I have recently downloaded the newest version of iTunes in which the problem seems to be gone.
I must say that I still am not using iTunes on my windows machine. As some european iPod users know, Apple has implemented a volume cap on iPods sold in Europe due to some French screwed up law about a company not being allowed to sell personal audio products that could result in impaired hearing when you're ninety :-). A way to circumvent this cap is to run a program that boosts the audio level registered in the iPods track database. After doing this the iTunes is not smart enough to figure out that the tracks still corresponds to the tracks it transferred earlier, and starts transferring ALL the tracks once again. iTunes is seemingly the only windows program for the iPod that has this flaw, many other transferring/synchronisation program works just fine.
sigfault. comment dumped.
No security fixes for older versions of OS X, no support for killed older iPods.....Apple really sounds like a great vendor :/
Chris "Ng" Jones
cmsj@tenshu.net
www.tenshu.net
Well, I guess I don't see the difference between a "hack" (by Apple) and a supported software, without discussing a lot of technical details. If original iPod was called "Mac-only" it was because there was no [supported] software for it for any other OS. Now, if Apple wrote iTunes to support all of the iPods, it wouldn't be called a "hack" but rather it would be a non-issue. We wouldn't be talking about it and everybody would be happy.
Now, I am guessing they had their reasons why they created "Mac-only" and "Windows-only" iPods and that's what I was talking about. My belief is it was simply a marketing strategy to sell more iPods, since I didn't see a technical impediment of why one type should be "Mac only" and the other "Windows only". You may believe otherwise, of course, and that's up to you.
Well, I don't know where you got that they have "sinned", or iTunes is "broken". What I meant by "fix" in that context was to fix the issue that the article/thread was about, nothing more. Obviously, Apple made a choice not to include the said feature with their software and that's up to them. So, if you'd like to see it worded another way - maybe if they get a lot of backlash, they will update their software to include the said feature. That's what I was trying to express there.
For the mostpart, winblows, linux (with kernel-support install for it, of course), and mac should all support this standard.
After all, they can all *read* CD's, even if they can't always make use of the content.
Tell me again why Apple is less of an evil company than MS. Better design, yes. Better PR, yes. Better product, yes. But better attitude? No, not when push comes to shove.
all related to the fact that Windows gays up firewire drives.
Were you implying that Windows is able to change the sexual orientation of an object which is inanimate, non-sentient and most importantly, devoid of any reproductive organs whatsoever? You should really share the details of this profound development so it can receive proper peer review for scientific study.
I will say that I'm still using the same firewire chassis, only now with 7200 RPM instead of 5400 RPM drives, and haven't had the problem since. The iPod has a rather slow hard drive too, which could explain the similar issues.
I'd say your firewire subsystem is unsafe at any speed. You better run, lest you be overrun by homosexual hard drives.
Regardless, I'm inclined to believe Windows just has a shitty VFS or Firewire subsystem...
I'm inclined to believe you are a troll with the same extraordinary all-encompassing ignorance towards homosexuals as you have towards firewire. You need to fall out of the clue tree and hit every branch on the way down.
That's the server edition, moron. Do you have any idea what Win2k3 Server costs? Much, much more.
Meanwhile, OSX 10.3 goes for $129.
Hell, that's pretty much my life.
These threads on MediaFour's forum should help you fix your problem. http://forums.mediafour.com/showthread.php?s=&thre adid=3256
http://forums.mediafour.com/showthread.php?s=&thre adid=3268
*** iTunes 4.1.x, Firmware 2.1 [Updated 10-31-2003] ***
Mac iPod with XPlay + iTunes for Windows
Dude, you're just a fucking idiot.
Yes, child, there is a price for Mac OS X Server 10.3 (10-client) that is $499. The entry-level Microsoft Windows 2003 Advanced Server is QUITE a bit more expensive.
If you want to compare Windows XP to Mac OS X then the upgrade price of Windows is the same-ish as the full price of Mac OS X 10.3 (which has a file server, web server, FTP server, SSH, etc. all built-in as well and functions VERY well as a server). The systems are equal tit-for-tat in that regard.
Shove it, bitch.
You can format a MAC iPod to windows, as well as format a windows iPod to Mac. This article says so, and also has a link on how to do both
The point isn't that you can't MAKE an iPod one or the other, it's just that Windows will not recognize a Mac iPod while a Mac will recognize a PC iPod.
I have a generation 2 10 gig Windows format iPod. I sync it at home with my WinXP box, but at work I plug it into an older G4 that I have, and it recognizes it, and I can play songs off of it in iTunes. However, I have to make sure that I click "no" when it flashes it's little "there is an update available for your iPod" button, or it will go Mac.
I have blog like everyone else
If a PC user makes a similar joke about Mac hardware, he is justifyibly modded down.
A Mac zealot does the same thing and its FUNNY?
I am sorry, but this is hypocritical moderation (not to mention that its not funny at all).
This is the real key issue. Regardless of how the box or manual is labeled, any reasonable person would expect that the official Apple music software will not destroy an Apple ipod. So much for "just works".
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
Actually, my 160GB hard drives fit nicely into my pocket.
I have a feeling that doesn't count.
What idiot moderated this as troll?
He points out the absurd moderation and the truth, then he gets censored by you nazi's. How is that for 1984, Slashdot?
you got a 40 gig device that can play audio files that is not an ipod ? well don't keep it to yourself, bucko. share your discovery with everyone.
i say no you don't have one, not one that can display all of songs/albums/volume/time on a little screen. i call bullsh*t. show me.
but it don't play no songs and don't have no screen, right ? ;)
This is exactly why slashdot is fucked up. Flamebait != saying something that might be offensive. It's saying something that is extremely, obviously, and deliberately offensive. If someone's choice of words is poor or otherwise not to your liking, the idea is not to mod it up.
who are those slashdot people? they swept over like Mongol-Tartars.
Forget ipod, get an iriver. Much better.
I have to call "shenanigans" on the title and wording of this thread. Total "Shenanigans" An Apple tech service rep agreeing, Yep, after you installed iTunes your iPod isn't working, and you being a dipshit for using a "mac only" ipod in an unsupported configuration are 2 different things. It isn't a question of the "reality distortion field", it is a question of dumbass users who don't understand the most basic statement "mac only". That is how it was sold, NO CLAIM ANYWHERE was made to refute or suggest otherwise. I hope the jackass can recover it, but it is he who took the risk. Can't believe the "intelligentsia" responding here w/ anything other than positive suggestions and well wishes. Sorry to take the wind out of the conspiracy theorists and those that would like to bash apple service. Oh, and by the way, I took my mom's 1994 buick century off-roading, and, after a few steep inclines it just didn't want to go anymore...I think General Motors really sucks!!
Well, you are. Get a clue. It states very clearly that the HFS+ filesystem is not supposeted under Windows. This is the fault of Windows, it CANNOT see the disk drive of a for-Mac iPod. This has been the rule since the first iPod was ever plugged into a PC by some hacker "just to see what happens".
Class action lawsuit? Please. This is well known, well documented. Makes you ashamed you support Apple?
Trolling. Mad down.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Office will open all versions of older files and if you have to send a file to an older version of the software, just pick that on the save as line and away you go.
If you don't like FUD, stop spreading it around.
Oh well so he's comparing the price tag of WinXP Pro to OS X -server-, yeah, that's a good comparison. Well, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to bend the numbers to your favor when you're trying to bash an OS on slashdot. Next time try comparing the home OS to the home OS and the server OS to the server OS.
Let's try this again:
Windows XP Pro: $299
Windows XP Home: $199
Mac OS X Home: $129
Windows XP Server: $999 - $3,999k
Mac OS X Server: $499
So uhh, exactly where were the savings again?
-matt
I remember the spot on ads showing people trying to make sense of a windows 3.1 manual. It was high comedy, and quite true.
They have shifted the focus from computers "for the rest of us" to high tech chic.
They have engendered the very mindset that they rightly scorn now. In the early mac days, it was important for them to be the easy to use alternative to other PCs. But now they have that image by default and they are now trying (and succeeding) to create a new image as the computer that the best people use.The only problem with that is, they seem to be dropping one for the other.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
are you sure you're not using AAC? IIRC, the first iPods don't support AAC and never will...
Go hug some trees.
...you might think that you would know the difference between intentional programming and a software bug.
I sure your are thinking to your sef now, "OOH, I'm soo smart. Those guys at apple, are so damn sto0opid. I feel so much better about my self now."
(shakes head slowly and sighs)
If you really think that Apple made an "Amature Mistake" here. You really take the cake.
"Hey Steve, if you are reading this. "You really should fire all your (incompetent) QA guys, and hire this guy instead. He really picks up on the little nuances better than anybody I've ever read"
I think you're missing my point, I don't care if iTunes works with it or not. Because it worked just fine for a year without it, then iTunes BROKE it. This is a different thing to being incompatible.
Of course I installed the most recent firmware. We do have Macs here, and I'm sure I'm not the only person to use the Macs and PCs together. As for this talk of being explicitly told that it wouldn't work. Not working is one thing, breaking is another. It's not like I'd complain if I'd tried to use it underwater. Jeez. My problem is that it used to work until I installed APPLE software. And If someone can tell me where they say this, I'd be happy to withdraw my complaint.
my mistake, this is very embarassing, but I didn't mean to come off as whinging, I was actually asking Slashdot for help. I've come back to see six hundred people call me a fool, but it was worth it for the couple of people who took the time to help me. And they helped me get to fix it, you're almost right, and I did re-flash the firmware, but on a Mac. What I needed to do was flash the firmware on a PC and then a Mac to re-set it to Mac only iPod (which is what I primarily use it for, which is why I bought it.) As an aside my post was more of a technical issue, not an ethical one, I didn't expect better customer support from Apple than I would from Sony or anyone else, the guys were angry and not especially technical. I don't have a problem with Apple as I don't expect more of them than I do from any other company. I asked them if they knew a way to fix it. Because they didn't, they acted like jerks. So did a lot of the people here. I never raised my voice in anger once. This was my first post, the last thing I wanted to do was the start some flame war. The whole thing is pretty surreal.
All you have to do is reflash the firmware and then format the drive as FAT32. This fixes in the issue. Don't bother calling support. As of now they will just say that you are SOL but if you reflash the firmware and then format the drive to FAT32 you can get it to work again.
pitchforks.....and lots of them.
flaming torches might help too.
It seems I have an iPod for both!!!
Now come up Apple: Tell me it's not supported!!!
Gery
The answer is yes, me.
When the iPod does that, it can;t play the music. Are you sure it is formatted correctly? (Both the iPod and the Music in question.) iTunes might think the iPod can play it, but it can't. Check the music formant.
I don't feel that Apple has any responsibility in the matter. I think the comment about Apple flashing a warning if there is compatibility issues is absolutely correct, and maybe Apple should have included support of this kind, but beyond that, the onus on Apple to warn the consumer is over. Besides that, hasn't there been numerous posts stating that this guy DIDN'T completely fry his ipod, and there is a way to salvage it? If this is correct, then Apple hasn't done anything wrong.
In viewing the last few days, there have been some pretty bogus posts, starting with the Mail complaint (which was a simple GUI fix), to the server difficulty (which was just confusing and quite possibly BS), to the current concern, which IMHO is slightly more legit, if marginally so. I hate to wave the flag of flamebait, but it certainly seems this way. There are genuine concerns (Panther eating firewire HD's) and there are these concerns. I just wish the people who posted these things, regardless of their motive, would think first and post later. Word.
In my experience, this is caused by newer (non-standard) meta tags that the player doesn't understand. Try setting all the non-ID3 tags to empty and then re-transfer and play :)
geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
If you read the whole thread, the original poster solved his problem. He followed the correct steps and formatted it in FAT32, and it is now a Windows iPod.
Gee... perhaps someone should have waited to see the outcome before posting yet another "Serious Problem with Apple Software/Hardware" story.
Is Slashdot going to report on every technical support call to Apple?
Ryan
I agree that the user should only expect the manufacturer to support what they full well make claim to, and that any other mis/use cannot be supported.
/Volumes//iPod_Control/Music though they're not as well organized here as you'd think.
While I do have a 3G 20GB model, I'm using it flawlessly with Mac and PC compatibility. Simply 'Restore' it first for PC (FAT32), then plug it into the Mac. Also, make sure to use 11 characters or less when naming the device, otherwise you'll get funky characters and no AppleScripts for iTunes will parse the directory structure, thus you will be unable to copy single tracks off the iPod.
Also, you can use Terminal to access your MP3s manually at
This wanker is just a troll. Check out his journal and mod the bastard down. You'll find that most if not all of his comments are actually lifted from others.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
Hahaha, damnit, I'd originally put $4k, whoops! good catch.. And here I was saying -he- got ripped of, shit man, I would have paid almost $4million above cost!
-matt
As does the home version of 10.3, which is currently running one of my servers. You lose again. Try knowing the facts first next time.
Mac OS X Server goes from between $499 to $999, depending on the number of Appletalk users you want concurrently. Also note that thats included int he price of an Xserve, while other companies don't include MS's OS, and with good reason. No way of knowing which version you'd plan on running.
Mod point free since 2001
Dear Anonymous Coward,
Thank you for your kind response regarding my post. As you can imagine, I receive so many positive responses regarding my posts, that I cannot possibly reply to them all. But once again, thank you for your kind remarks regarding my post.
Sincerely,
ErnstKompressor
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON