Slashdot Mirror
NASA Scientists Get Custom 24h39m-per-day Watches
blair1q writes "In order to more easily keep solar time on Mars, (or maybe just as a lark) JPL has ordered specially-modified mechanical watches for the Mars Exploration Rover Mission. One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
Totally, completely useless. A complete waste of money.
When will they be available to the public? And how much? I want one.
Because its faster strapping on a watch that works already rather than spending a bunch of hours making the linux solution work...
The Rolax I pickup up on Market Street does that already!
and get a watch that runs solaris. As simple as that!
One wonders why these literalrocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together aMars-time display application into it?" Because that wouldn't be cool?
And I'm honestly impressed with the achievements of the last few years. Mars. Impressive though we've been there. But space is huge, interesting, and the future. We're the US, and we really need a new way to support exploration and science for those of us who care so much about it. Anyone think things are changing for the better or know of a way to change them?
And not linux programmers? Their time was more efficiently spent working on the mission, not trying to get some hack working right. Let someone who can do that job do it.
Great!
:)
Now I just need a watch to keep track of that other irregular period
*duck*
Being able to project the orbit of a decaying planet around a binary Pulsar-White Dwarf pair is not the same as writing a C++ program in an embedded enviroment. Albeit, I'm sure proficiency among the scientists in the programming languages are far higher than that of the general public, but it must be far simpler to just buy a mechanical watch that is nearly guaranteed to be flawless by nature, or work for days on making a bug free watch that is far more prone to failure.
And why did you staple the trout to the RAM?
80 past 2 on April 47th. I just hope they don't fuck up the conversion, again.
as to why they didn't take a more high tech route...
from the article:
"Garo gets to say, "I told you so" to those who said it couldn't be done."
Ugh..."pickup up"
I need to stop posting while drunk.
And, as a layman knowing nothing about the intricacies of a 100%-mechanical wristwatch, it sounds like a frickin' impressive one.
Mad props to Mr. Anserlian!
-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658
> One wonders why these literal rocket scientists
> didn't just get a software programmable Linux
> or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack
> together a Mars-time display application into
> it?"
Maybe they have better things to do? Like driving a rover around on Mars...maybe??
This hit me. While MARS watches are a cool-nerdy thing, it is also indicitave of a secondary pattern--humans mentally divergent behavior to avoid Earthly situations, and instead focus their heads way up past the bombs and pollution into the clouds.
Now when MARS attacks we'll know what time it is.
The Custom Mary
Two wonder why these literal rocket scientists need to know what time it is here anyhow...
Three wonder why these literal rocket scientists don't just have really big clocks on the wall, like at the airport...
And four of us want to know why they can't just hire a booth babe to walk around and tell them what time it is... :)
"One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
because mechanical watches are much cooler and act as a souvenir of the project. next, why don't you go ask astronauts to trade in their mission patches for a linux box with the logo as the desktop background. don't expect to be popular with them.
Those guys must be slapping their heads as they read this...or I all of a sudden have less confidence in this mission...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
If we're serious about heading into space, we need to develop a way of telling time that's not linked directly to Earth. Sure, we'll have conversions and such, but we need an independent time measurement.
These watches already existed for lawyers who charge for 25 hour work days.
We had a guy on our team who was always complaining about how getting t-shirts and keychains and hats and other booty was distracting us from the real goal of our project. He would always say stuff like, "Why would they give us this t-shirt when we can draw on a white one and it would be the same?"
We had to fire that motherfucker. A person with bad morale can infect others. So if you have to complain every time someone you have no relationship with gets something nice, keep it to yourself.
I have been pwned because my
no /.UI!
And I'm honestly impressed with the achievements of the last few years. Mars. Impressive though we've been there previously. But space is huge, interesting, and the future. We're the US, and we really need a new way to support exploration and science for those of us who care so much about it. Anyone think things are changing for the better or know of a way to change them?
Why must everything on Slashdot be Linux-based?! If they were going to make a watch on a different time system to normal then wouldnt it make more sense to just build a slightly different watch? Analogue you just add a few more teeth to the gears and digital shouldn't be too hard to alter. Putting Linux on a watch is just silly.
--Muzz
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
It is always such a relief to know that Slashdot readers know more about Astronauts should do and use than NASA engineers.
Maybe that was a bit harsh, but have you ever seen a sophisticated piece of consume electronics, such as a Palm Pilot or laptop, taken along with astronauts on their missions?
Electronics in space have to be able to handle conditions that your favorite PDA engineers did not exactly have in mind--even on an astronauts wrist. Notice that the watch is not even digital, and that if you think about it, it is probably not because the Engineers didn't read The Hitchhiker's Guide.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
Recall, Arthur Dent had the same problem with his mechanical watch.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
These are really interesting, and in analog very hard to find. Aaawatchclub has a few. Really hard to find. I never understood the whole "implied binary digit" thing. Notice they didn't do something as looney as divide the Martian time into two.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
I'll tell you why they got mechanical watches and didn't hack up a Linux watch:
1. Generally speaking digital watches are fugly. There's no Movado Digital Watch for a reason.
2. Commitment. This watch will ALWAYS run ~24h39m. You can give it to your grandkids. Your crap-ass programmable digital watch won't make it that far. Also, it can be made back into a 24h watch. There are no digital watch family heirlooms.
3. A mechanical watch is a thing of craftsmanship and beauty. A watch running Windows or Linux is cute for maybe 10 minutes then its a watch that does so many other things that they forgot the "tells time" part.
I want the 25-hour one.
28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes and 12 seconds... that is when the world will end.
They are being used by the NASA folks on the ground.
and all I got was this crummy watch.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Anybody think they can clarify this?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
it is a difficult feat of engineering. Because a mechanical watch is a combination of skill, craftmanship and beauty. Because someone said it couldn't be done. Because it is a very geeky thing to do.
Some of the mechanical watches with complications, like a perpetual calendar (keeps track of day, date and even leap year so you never have to reset the date) that has a wheel that revolves once every four years, are truly engineering marvels. Then there are tourbillons, repeaters, etc...all great feats of skill. I would buy one of these watches just for the skill involved in designing and testing it.
I would think slashdotters would understand doing something fairly "out there" just for the sake of doing it. And these are very useful. Granted useful for a small number of users, but useful nonetheless.
Now, how about a Beowulf cluster of Timex Sinclairs?
Instead of making your remote run linux, they are actually doing something worthwhile and don't have the time to get their watches to run linux.
And people wonder why NASA is a monetary black hole.
Honestly, how hard is it to use a software solution with PC's, instead of wasting god knows how much on useless trinkets.
If I had a spare couple of grand (they'd have to cost at least that, given they're custom-modified mechanical watches), I'd seriously consider one.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
OK, that was a slightly trollish subject line, but I'll try to make up for it.
... efficiency is for machines, not necessarily for people.
I think that as geeks, we all (well, most of us -- I don't have arms, you insensitive clod!) go through the phase where we want that digital watch that has EVERYTHING. It should have at least two different clocks! And a stopwatch! And two timers! And, umm, a calculator. While we're at it, throw a little game in there (I seem to recall one of my first watches had a Simon Says game). Hell, these days, you can get a watch with a USB connection.
Nothing wrong with that, mind you, but at some point some of us change our preferences. Maybe it's because I spend my time on computers 85% of my waking hours, but I've become fond of such things as writing letters with a fountain pen on some nice vellum paper -- Coinciding with my preference for simple, elegant analog watches. This watch on my wrist can't do much -- it tells the time, and the date, and actually has an alarm, but that's about it. It won't tell me what time it is in Hong Kong and it's not heavy enough to kill someone with blunt trauma like those big Citizens. But you know what? I like it. It's light, it's thin, and it looks pretty on my wrist.
I don't mean to suggest there's some sort of 'maturity' that causes some of us to like analog watches -- liking analog watches isn't better than liking digital watches, just different. It's not the height of efficiency, but
If I could afford it and I had the same problem, I'd have gone for mechanical watches too. I'd buy one of these, but I'd feel like a total poseur.
If the folks at the Mars Society have any clue at all, they'll be selling these as soon as they can get 'em.
At the very least, they should finagle a way to get one for Zubrin.
Me? I'm founding a company right now, cobber. Money is kinda scarce at the moment. I'll just have to hope to pick one up later.
*sigh*
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Not all slashdotters live in the Bay Area.
And Santee Alley is MUCH more what you're talking about.
Is the time controlling hardware on a PC board or PDA as accurate as an actual hard crafted caesium clock? Cause I reckon NASA would want something DAMN accurate.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Because NASA FEARS SCO!
Hacking the physical world is much more l33t?
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
If Think Geek could get someone to make these I would buy one just for the sheer geekyness of it ;)
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
These guys have the coolest job on the planet. They get a bunch of money to design and drive an RC car on a distant planet, AND they get cool watches to boot. Man, I would LOVE to work for NASA... oh, and that physics and engineering thing...
s /5776// 6458/
I'd settle for a watch and one of think geek's rovers.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/cubegoodies/toy
http://www.thinkgeek.com/cubegoodies/toys
-j
haud servio tui deus neque tui diabolus huad servio tui regalis neque tu
24h39m? can someone tell me what the date is on Mars?
according to my watch, I'm right on time.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
What a major waste. Yes, they should have Mars time watches, but it should be done by software - even the programmable Timex watches could have done it and the watch would still keep earth time. I guess some idiot manager is now telling people how important he is because of how big a budget he has.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
It's the perfect excuse for getting home late! I can think of a lot of things one could do in 39 minutes... Oh wait, these are geeks. I suppose they could... umm ... play with their watch or something.
even with the spiffy mars watches. You'd think a rotating schedule of shifts would enable them to work around the clock in different teams, 24 hours a day here on earth, without having time/schedule problems due to where the sun is on mars.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
Time is mixed base (none of which are decimal!), 0x18/0x3C/0x3C. In effect, AM/PM is making it 2/0xC/0x3C/0x3C.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Head... about... to... EXPLODE!!!
Now, with the Mars day being slightly longer than the Earth day and there are watches to match this, how do they reckon the days there? Here on Earth there is the system of Julian Days, which serves well for Earth-bound day-counting and marking dates of interesting events. This, like the UTC clock, seems to be very Earth-centric.
So are anyone contemplating a Martian calendar, or some kind of linear numbering of Mars Days, so there will be a logical date for when the various Rovers and others have landed, and other interesting events?
For all I know, such a calendar may already exist, but all I have seen of it has been various science-fiction books.
SIGBUS @ NO-07.308
You know, your sig complements this article and the poster's editorial perfectly.
"... One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
Because in 10 years, a PalmOS watch is just a clucky, very outdated piece of plastic, while these will be collectable, a nice reminder for the team members who took part, and, well, basically cool. I say 'well done' since this was obviously oganised by a couple of the guys in their spare time.
Since these are eventually going to be sold to the public I'd hope the team all get their's engraved and/or made unique in some way.
"...movement of the wheels and hands on certain existing famous-maker wristwatches. Working on the 21-jeweled self-winding mechanical wristwatches..."
That mechanism is pretty damned cool, but they could've found a cheaper self-winding watch to screw with...
On the other hand, it could be worse, they could've sprung for IWC Le Grande Complications.
Maybe an audit of this project is in order...
"... Garo said. "I spent more than $1,000 trying to figure this out " damaging watches, trying different parts, just searching for a way."
Ah, these would be the limitied edition 'Beagle 2' watches.
You might wonder, but after helping several aerospace engineering students (AKA rocket scientists) through their ONE Java course, I certainly don't.
Remember, it's rocket science, not programming! I, for one, can tell the difference between source code and rocket fuel. Past that, I don't know much about rocket fuel. On that note, I doubt most rocket scientists know much about programming.
Dark Nexus
"Sanity is calming, but madness is more interesting."
Has anybody else's HP48 been doing this as well?
After all that the mission team has done to see this project be the success that it is so far, you would begrudge them a cool souvenir for their work? The watches cost a few thousand at most for the team. What is that out of a $900 million mission budget? Not a "major waste", as you put it.
Ok, at the smallest level would that work. What I mean is this. 1 Second is 1/86400 of 1 day, or 131557600 of 1 year (leap years factored in).
If Mars's rotation isn't compatible down to the second with Earth's rotation, how could a Linux or Palm OS machine which deals with time in seconds or in set fractions of a second (tics) how can you be sure that it will accurately keep time on Mars?
Maybe this is why they chose mechanical watches.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
These people are having to adjust their ENTIRE scheduale around the added 39 minutes. This means waking up, going to sleep, eating breakfast/lunch/dinner, bathing... everthing.
JPL comes up with the idea to have Mars time watches to help reduce the stress and fatigue they are going through by not only adjusting to martian time, but also KEEPING TRACK of martian time.
What do you think is going to make life a little more easier on these people? A big assesed linux watch, or a mechanical watch more similar to what they are used to wearing?
And you guys tout about how wonderful the linux watch is. "OH MY, YOU CAN PROGRAM IT! OH HOW WONDERFUL." Great, where are they even going to buy such a thing? Who are they going to have program it? How long is the battery going to last? How dependable is it?
That fossil PalmOS watch is great too, but when you look down at it and see some icons instead of a watch face, it is kind of a nagging reminder that you have to keep draging through every day, knowing that your life is gradually being flipped upside down by 39 minutes. Not to mention you have to keep pressing buttons, or using the stylus to change things. Dont knock the watch against anything either, or that touch screen will probobly screw something up some how.
Yeah, they could have programmed a watch with linux or whatever, but you guys are making a very simple task into a very OMG LINUX FREE WORLD NASA SUCKS OMG COMPLICATED solution.
I don't really know how this stuff works, but I don't see why you'd
need a custom crystal at all.
A standard crystal oscillates 32768 times per second. There's some
other electronics (a frequency divider?) to cause a tick every 32768
oscillations, right? How hard would it be to just make the tick
happen every 33655 oscillations? That'll make the watch run slow by
~38 minutes, 58.77 seconds per day.
Is making a frequency divider that deals with a non-round number like
33655 a hard problem, or am I way off the mark here?
Besides which, modifying mechanical watches is a cool hack, although old school. Maybe you kids wouldn't approve, but guys like the TMRRC would want one so they could take it apart and do it themselves.
More disconcerting is the quote from the article;
One hopes the amazement is on the part of the JPL staffer, and not on the part of the master watchmaker. Such accuracy used to be commonplace on all but the cheapest mechanical watches. Or maybe since most market watches (as opposed to chronometers) are marketed for fashion rather than accuracy nowadays, it is astounding for a modern watch.RolEx. I wish people pronounced things how they were spelt instead of spelling things however they pronounce them. =P
Just because you don't work in a company with deep pockets that doesn't give you the right to criticize them.
Are you worried that the money they used came form the taxes, so what, most people cheat on their tax returns applications, is a win-win situation, geeks get cool gadgets to show off at conventions you get your rebate later this year.
Even Steven.
Trust me on this one.
a slideruler like conversion tool...something cheaper than having mechanical ones specially made.
I'd rather see that money go towards the next rover or the next Mars mission. But this does leave room for some ways for NASA to raise funds in other ways than from taxes....by selling merchandise to fans! A collector's Mars watch where the proceeds go towards funding the Mars Exploration Project.
I think the original joke was intended to sound like a cheap (and therefore inaccurate-for-earth) knockoff of Rolex watches.
And yes, the joke is a lot less funy when it has to be explained.
-- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
Was this Mars clock for the PalmOS anywhere in that explosion of links called a story?
Swear to god, the first time I was ever offered a $20 Rolex on the street, I almost bought it because it was spelled "Rollex".
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?
:)
Dude, this is freakin' NASA we're talking about here. As in, you know, the agency that never once in its illustrious history found a project it couldn't pork up, underbudget, and overrun by at least 3x projected cost. I mean... duh.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
That might not actually be a bad project. How about a watch that acts similar to a mood ring. LED's on the outer surface could glow different colours depending on her mood (from horny to happy, angry, or you-came-home-at-2am-and-smell-like-perfume=death) . In the case of "that time of month" the watch could have a flashing red LED as warning. As an extra bonus, the Pro model could come with WiFi support, broadcasting to nearby watches of its kin when it's time to stay away. Not sure whether a nice dinner or death awaits you as you step into the house... check your watch for WiFi distress signals...
I dont understand.. Why do they need a Mars watch?? When it is time to leave work by your earth watch, just leave!
It shouldn't matter if the rover is following Martian time.
Of course it was - my bad. Note to self: don't post or moderate before my 11am medication (caffeine).
Because the linux watch is a is a prototype that will not be marketed and the PalmOS watch is vaporware.
maybe not a watch but a palm pilot
Mens
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
How exactly are the extra 39 minutes arranged in the watch? Are they evenly distributed among 24 hours (with each hour slightly longer), or are they counted as a 25th hour (which would be only 39 minutes long)?
a SuperBowl Ring type thing. They were on the team when it went the distance and got a memento for their participation.
When engineers could build something without using anything that had been compiled.
paintball
..."but this one goes to eleven..!"
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
Get your offical "Mars time" watch replica for $99 today at thinkgeek.com...
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
You mean, you live life without mencal
I think it's now time to create a new timezone locale for Mars (and all other planets?). I suggest: TZ=MarsUT for "Mars Universal time". Then all these NASA scientists will just need a linux laptop with xdaliclock running. Another reason to switch to linux. Linux, the only OS with martian time zones.
I hope everybody has had the chance to view the panorama shot composed of somewhere around 225 photographs.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
If NASA did use a wrist-computer running Linux, would this mean SCO would go from international pest to interstellar pest??? Will it ever end?
Like foot? Door? Boot? Gauge? Gauze?
Your Rolax is a fake! Every literate person know it's a Rolleks.
Grundgesetz * 23. Mai 1949 - 30. November 2007 - http://www.vorratsdatenspeicherung.de/
When I did my MSc in RadioAstronomy way back in the 1960's it was common for those involved to have watches - one on Earth time, the other on sidereal time. In my flat overlooking the harbour I run a clock that runs on lunar time for the tides,
Lots of electronic equipment is taken onboard the orbiter, including laptops and digital cameras. However, they do have to go through intensive testing and examination, as there are some important problems with using normal consumer electronics in space, mostly having to deal with the dissipation of heat in an environment where there is no natural convection. Also, some caps tend to emit small amounts of toxic gas, and since there is little airflow, in order to avoid little pockets of poisonous gas, cannot be used.
At least that is what I remember being told... (i.e. don't take my word for it, look it up)
This site has a description of a Mars clock built by Ralph B. Mentzer of the Hamilton Watch Company, ca. 1954.
It's a fascinating timepiece, with a 16-inch diameter, a 24-hour face and almost 400 working parts. It could even keep track of the difference in calendar measurements between earth and Mars.
However, apparently only two of these clocks were ever built. One is at the Smithsonian Institution and the other resides at the National Watch and Clock Museum (and the clock seems to be visible on this page).
"Folks just call him Buckethead." -- Les Claypool
-1, No Sense of Humor
"One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
Duh, because they probably needed to waste some more taxpayer money to justify asking for a bigger budget next year...
If nasa is looking for someone to live on mars, i wouldn't mind going. My body clock is synced with the mars day, i need little social attention, i don't need to go out doors.... Man, it would be so perfect to sleep in and stay up late every day!
btw, about everyone has a 24 and a half hour body clock if left unattended. cave study... blah..I think all of this is due to all these handy electronic lights, but i could be wrong.
But then you'd never post..not that we'd mind.
Yeah, because it'd be a lot of fun having to show up at work at different hours each day.
Let's see... today I show up at 10:32, tomorrow it's 43:16
isn't that how programmers show up to work anyway?
**nudges ThinkGeek**
;)
Mars Solar Time Watches
Get them in Analog, Digital, or Binary!
Analog - Watch the Mars Rover travel around the 12-hour, 19-minute, 30-second clock face! At every revolution the rover lights up, sending its "signal" back to Houston!
Digital - Those aren't just polygon making those numbers come to life, they're Mars Rovers intertwined to become numbers!
Binary - Okay, it's basically our Binary Clock, but instead of dots they're Mars Rovers. So sue us
watches from Taiwan normally seem to keep to Mars time...>$5 each.
...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
I actually have one of these space pens.
I keep it in a plastic bag as a keepsake because they leak all over the place unless you used it almost every day. Think huge gobs of ink flowing at the start of your report. Heaven knows what would happen to the pressurized ink capsule if it ever hit hard vacum, I can promise you that whatever happens it will be messy.
We're the US, and we really need a new way to ...
:)
some of us outside of the US care, too
It is not very impressive. In a mechanical watch is a balance wheel and a hair spring. The wheel and spring are oscilating (that is making a mechanical watch tick). The Oscilation period is the time base for the watch. You can change the oscilation period by altering the mass of the balance wheel (adding weight makes the oscilation period longer) or changing the spring constant of the hair spring (make it less stiff or langer for a longer oscilation period).
The formula for the oscillation time is
T = 2*pi*sqrt(J/k)
with
J = moment of inertia
k = the spring constant.
It looks like the watches have added weight on de balance wheel. He did a naice job but it is not earth (or mars) shattering.
Nyh
Homer: [gasps] Look at these low, low prices on famous brand-name electronics!
Bart: Don't be a sap, Dad. These are just crappy knock-offs.
Homer: Pfft. I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see it. And look, there's Magnetbox and Sorny.
How about sending a few of these to the President as gifts?
As a community this is a great way to express support.
It did (ahem) happen on his watch.
No brainer.
My current Casio digital is the best watch I've owned. It's accurate to within a second, after 3 years, it's still on it's 1st battery and I wear it in the shower, it has a fantastic backlight and large easy to read white on black digits. It doesn't have a USB drive, it doesn't have a video phone, it doesn't have a calculator, it doesn't really do anything except just work as a watch since I got it.
Oh, it's a Casio Futurist Illuminator. Quality bit of kit.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
point to their wrists and go:
Bbbbbbbrb-Swatch'em, Mars!
This
I've always thought the system proposed by (Kim Stanley Robinson) in the Mars Trilogy books was kinda neat:
All clocks stop at midnight, wait 40 minutes, then tick over to 00:01
(Yes, there are practicality and "yes, but *WHAT'S the TIME*??!?" issues, but I still reckon it'd be cool)
For my wife's birthday recently, I spent a whole lot of money on a watch. Then she had me take it back to the shop becuase it was losing about forty minutes a day.
I could have just told her it was a Mars Watch, but instead I get it "fixed" to show plain old boring GMT. Darn.
evil math within Nature's Cubic Creation!
The gift set includes this specially built watch, as well as a tape measure that has BOTH imperial AND metric markings.
Which Martian time zone is JPL using to synchronise their watches?
Done and done.
There is a palm version out there, too, though, IMHO, it doesn't work all that well. Or, more accurately, it doesn't meet the standard set by this program.
Personally I never use a watch my self.
1. why wear something that you use say 3-5 seconds per day, dumb shit really.
2. my mobile has the clock
3. my pda has a clock
4. my pc and every other pc has a clock
5. theres lots of clocks in the city churches
6. times are at all public transport places, and cars.
What is the point of wearing a watch, this dumbass old contraption.
If anything, id prefer a RING that has a tiny watch.
Watches, damn old shit, from the 17th century, out of date and useless, and damn anoying feeling wearing it too.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
I did: MarsClock
Space and Computers.
There could actually be a rational reason why these watches might improve mission reliability, and thus save money. One of the main problems with earth ground system operations is the ability of the ground staff to operate in several time zones at the same time. Although the ground system is (typically) on ZULU (or GMT), their shift patterns run on local time, and often the planning cycles (passes etc) operate at on offset from GMT. An example is the ROSAT day, or the RADARSAT planning offset, which is set off 19 hours later than GMT, thus the start of the RADASAT day is at GMT 19:00 and extends 24 hours to 19:00 the next day. Further, the antennae are scattered around the globe, and the antennae ground staff also operate their shift patterns on local time (they have a life outside the blockhouse) but run passes on ZULU time. These can be quite confusing, and a lot of planning screw ups (running passes on the wrong day etc) can result. If this gets out of hand, the wrong command can get sent at a bad time and that's that, everybody is suddenly unemployed! As Mars rover is (essentially) an automated MARS based ground system, perhaps these watches are an attempt to get better organized? Or maybe they are a status gimmick.
I stole this
"Putting Linux on a watch is just silly"
.... Just think of it, a trillon dollar 'Man to Mars' mission on its way to Jupiter because somebody screwed up his conversion calculations.
There are quite a few reasons to put Linux in a watch. NASA could for example put a scanner and OCR engine in the Linux based watch so those braniacs at NASA could verify their Metric to English unit calculations with a flick of their wrist. And before you say 'BAH! Humbug!'
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Sounds like a Seiko 7S26 or ETA 2846
Nothing wrong with either but but I'd assume they'd go for a faster beat 25 jewel ETA 2824 or 2892 (which is also 21 jewels but watches with this movt useally retail for a lot more than US$150, even though wholesale the movt is a lot cheaper than what people think)
Simplest answer of the lot. Advertising.
The people that make the "official" Mars watch are going to make a packet, just look at how much Omega managed to milk out of the moon landing. Same thing.
Whoever ends up making these things will stand to earn a butt load of cash for what equates to a simple modification.
Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
I found one that said Rolexxx -- ended up sitting there for a half hour arguing with the guy that since it was a fake he should sell it to me for $5...or I would continue to ruin sales (which I did as folks came by)...I got it for $7.50 (which is what the guy claimed he paid for it) to get me out of there :-)
I'll be sad the day I stop in NYC and find out the patriot act or whatever has taken these guys off the streets...*EVERYONE* knows they are fakes...a least the ones with half a brain in their head, but you gotta admit, for even $20, they make the best cheap watches you'll ever find. I'd pick one of these up over anything I could find at the local discount retailers...the fact that they blatently try to rip off the names of high society jewlery is just an added bonus.
I gave one of these as a Christmas present to a friend and TOLD him it was a fake...he claims it was one of the best gifts he'd gotten that year and enjoys it for the subversiveness of it...
Because they're INCREDIBLY BUSY and have been for a couple of years. One of them asked around a mailing list I'm on to see if any of us had a quick solution. Several "do it yourself" methods were suggested, but they were discarded because they don't have time to screw with that.
They DO have a java app that shows mars time on their computers, but nothing portable.
While it's better that taxpayer money gets spent on a redundant mechanical watch that is useless on Earth ( and can be implemented with half and hour's work in software as pointed out ), I suppose at least it's less money that goes directly into weapons of mass destruction. Of course the technology that gets developed in the aerospace industry is very handy in making said weapons. But to be politically correct, I can't accuse the US of making weapons of mass destruction. The US makes weapons of peace and understanding. They only become weapons of mass destruction when they are sold or given to 'the enemy' by the current president of the US, or at the least, his father.
... was actually find a way to get more hours (or minutes) into a day? Don't tell my boss or he'll have us working Venus days.
Too late already to make it into that showcase of watches, All tomorrow's parties. Cooler than the Jaeger LeCoultre Futurematic, anyways.
It's just a BloJJ
No, not a hyperlink, but does it seem passing strange to anyone that our own body clock is far closer to a Martian day than an Earth day? No conspiracy theories here, but it makes one wonder...
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
The watchmaker's has the watches for sale on his website. Three different brand: Orient, Seiko, and Citizen. Prices start at around $145 for the watch and $35 for the upcoming Mars watchface.
To bash an old quote:
Its the total geek factor stupid
It the difference between geek and UBER geek. Making a program or something else that is dependant on another device is too easy and while it does rate a little on the geek factor scale, its no where near the geek factor in a dedicated device.
Look at the binary clock, yea sure it could be done using an interface like java, dedicated device is WAAAAAY Cooler, and you don't have to switch screens to use it.
One wonders why you think ROCKET SCIENTISTS, dealing with something over 40 MILLION MILES AWAY, are also programmers and can just simply hack something together?
I'm tired of hearing news commentators talk about how hard life will be for the Spirit scientists, adding forty minutes to their days each day. The should just work two shifts and get over themselves.
Hacking a digital watch is nontrivial, especially if you have the same size and power consumption requirements as the original watch. The power budget of digital watches is austere, to say the least; typical drain of the entire watch, including oscillator, divider chain, and display driver, is 500 nA at 1.5 V, or 750 nW (a nanowatt is one billionth of a Watt).
Watches use 32.768 kHz AT-strip (tuning fork-style) quartz crystals (like these) as a compromise between size and low power consumption. The smaller the size of a crystal operating in a given mode of oscillation, the higher the frequency of oscillation. However, the power consumption of a digital switching circuit increases directly with the switching frequency (it is P (Watts) = CV^2f, where C is the capacitance of the switching device in Farads, V is the difference in volts between a logical 1 and a logical 0, and f is the frequency of switching in Hz). Having a higher oscillation frequency requires a longer frequency divider to divide the oscillator's output down to the required 1 Hz output, which raises the power consumption of the divider (mostly due to the higher switching frequency of the first few stages).
Having the crystal oscillate at a binary multiple of the desired output (32768 = 2^15) makes the divider circuits especially simple (15 divide-by-two stages in series). Having a non-binary multiple would require more switching circuitry and add to power consumption.
To hack such a system to Mars time would require either changing the crystal frequency or the divider string. Changing the divider string would require modifying the watch chip, a design task that would be relatively simple, digital design tools being what they are, but expensive and time-consuming, since a new IC mask set would have to be generated and a new lot of chips run through the fab--say, $250k and 3-6 months, if you started today. Not very desirable if you're a JPL guy funding this out of your own pocket (which is how this was done).
The alternative is to modify the crystal frequency. AT-strip tuning-fork watch crystals are cheap because they're made in a lithographic manner not dissimilar to that of IC production--a mask is made, resist is printed over a quartz blank, the blank is etched, etc. This produces nearly-identical parts in bulk, making them cheap. This is different from the standard AT-cut crystals with which most amateurs are familiar; AT-cut crystals are individually cut and polished to frequency. Since AT-strip crystals are made in bulk, one cannot get a small lot of them inexpensively, as one can AT-cut crystals; the manufacturer must make a new mask set for the new frequency, a relatively expensive task if one will only purchase, say, a hundred crystals. Modifying the crystal frequency is less expensive than making a new watch chip; however, neither option is suitable for the volumes and price points the JPL guys were trying to hit. Ergo, the mechanical watch.
... New York, London, Paris, Moscow, Tokyo, Mars ...
"One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
Maybe because they don't want to waste their time making a watch, and would like to focus on the Mars mission? No, that can't be it.
"One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
One wonders why you even care.
Yeah, and thanks for making suggestions about which OS to use. NASA owes you big my man.
In Poland at the start of the 90's I remeber seeing "Bolexes, Panasonigs, and Bomegas" nicly displayed at the fine stores.
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
Why the heck would they hack together some gaudy looking contraption when a simple watch does the trick? I swear, sometimes /.ers need to take a step back and keep things simple. That would be like saying, "people drive cars, why don't they just strap rocket engines to their feet?". If it doesn't work for Wile E. Coyote, it isn't going to work for me.
I hate sigs.
will do this, you will need to write your own wristapp though.
Analogy - precision is how close the bullet holes are to each other on a firing range target; Accuracy is how close they are to the bullseye. High grade movements will be precise. However, the Rolex has an awkward free sprung balance wheel with adjustment screws. This makes it harder / more expensive to bring a constant rate error e.g. +4 secs / day down to maybe +1 secs / day.
"What kind of pen is that?"
"This pen?"
"Yeah."
"This is an astronaut pen. It writes upside down. They use this in space."
"Come on, take the pen!"
"I can't take it."
"Do me a personal favor!"
"No, I'm not..."
"Take the pen!"
"I cannot take it!"
"Take the pen!"
"Are you sure?"
"Positive! Take the pen!"
"Okay. Thank you very much."
"If he likes it so much, he never should have offered it."
"He didn't think you'd accept."
"Well, he was wrong."
Because a mechanical wrist watch (presumably with manual or autowind) does not need an electrical power source.
So when the batteries in the Mars lander are flat, you can still count down till you freeze to death...
Since this is a government agency, they have to seek out bidders and give everyone an equal opprotunity to produce this custom watch. The bidder who can make the most complicated watch with the most parts made in the most congressional districts and states and initially within budget gets the contract. Nasa spends more money, but evenly distributes amongst congressional districts. This makes congress happy and Nasa gets more moeny to spend on overpriced, useless shit.
If I drive fast enough at the red light, it'll appear green.
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?
Maybe it's because they've got better things to do with their time?
Everybody who wants to make claims that are suspiciously supportive of your cause while also implying some people are stupid (for instance, spending millions when $1 would do fine) should have Snopes committed to memory in an indexed form.
;-)
Because there are those of us who do. And there are few things that do as much damage to your claims as seeing it on Snopes, in the "False" pile.
There are quite a few other categories of claims that should be checked too.
Let that be a warning
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?
Because that would be pointless?
All they had to do was change a few gear ratios instead of actually figuring out how to use linux, or getting an SDK for PalmOS, then actually writing the program and hope there's no bugs in it.
They're rocket scientists... not script kiddies who lavish in anything that is related to linux. (Go ahead, call me a troll... you know it's true)
The real question should be why they even needed to do it. It's not like knowing the time on mars is a huge deal.
Nikee, Adidos, Samsong, Volex, Motoroka... it goes on and on. (the first two are shoe companies just in case you didn't recognize Adidas)
Every huge project has something like this, and a watch that keeps Martian time is way cooler than "Opportunity went to Mars and all I got was this lousy coffee mug."
Dilbert would definitely want one.
n/t
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
What can linux do that freebsd cant? dumbasses
Any way, real hackers would just recode the opcodes in the watches CPU. Assembly is easy, if you dont know how, then go away and drink beer and watch football.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?
Because they're not cheap bastards like you.
show it off to everyone, in an odd way a watch is cooler than a palmpilot or some software.
Tangible.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I bet you a million dollars that this is going to be the next "new thing" in America. THE MARS WATCH. Idiots will line up in front of stores to get one and pay big $$$ for it too. You just wait and see.
Almost all measures of time compare one periodic cycle to another, such as the rotation or revolution of the earth, the vibration of quartz or cesium. The astronomical cycles are earth-biased. A Planck second is based on a combination of fundamental constants- the speed of light, the quantum of action, and gravitation constant. It is 1.351E-44 of a standard second. You would metricize it to 1.351 seconds for use in human activities.
That's a silly thing to wonder. The idiot who wastes his time making the watches wouldn't get a turn at the wheel of the rover. Tell me which one you would choose. :P
Read the Red/Blue/Green Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. He had a fun idea of throwing out the extra 39 minutes in day-to-day life. Or more succinctly, the first second of observed-time in the day lasted 39 minutes. Effectively giving them a "zero hour". He never goes on to explain the scientific/technical ramifications of this, but the idea was interesting in that instead of doing day-fitting of the time, they just ignored it.
For that matter, why not create a more decimal/metric friendly time all together? That's been worked on too... check this out: http://zapatopi.net/metrictime.html
All and all, as we move away from Earth to other heavenly bodies (including artificial ones) we're going to be faced with the awkward test of determining what time it is where ever we may be. Relativity be d@mned...
Opinions... ideas... further knowledge? let 'er rip...
what time is it?
It's party time!!!
-Levendis47
--==[ AOL YIM ICQ : Levendis47 : levendis47@yahoo.com ]==--
But there is the new Timex USB datalink. Fully open platform, complete with documentation. If you know assembler, hacking together a MARS clock as an alternate timezone would be cake.
'Specially if you could prevail on the good folks over at Timex to give you the source for thier main timekeeper app.
But the timex USB datalink is neither. Fully open platform complete with downloadable documentation and compiler. Although the compiler is closed source...
Hacking together a timekeeper with an arbitrary length day would be cake. It could even be an alternate timezone so your watch could tell time on both planets!
Keep in mind that these guys need much more precision than your average joe, kinda like the railmen back in the day. It's not like they can tell the rover to get up at eleven-thirty-ish, wander over to that dune and shoot us back an e-mail. If they're a few seconds off they'll end up talking to the elvis-face instead of the mars rover.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The comment is what is known as a 'joke'...an attempt to make light of the original lead-in one wonders.
I'm sure that somewhere, someone needs to have the story explained to them, but I'm not in that group, thankfully.
I now wonder if some people have been a bit too busy, what with being in two places at once, etc., to be able to still laugh at themselves :)
darn lame-o subject box. Rocket science - no longer associated with vast intelligence, ever since they confused inches with centimetres and managed to miss an entire planet.
What's the date? Mars has about a hundred more days than earth, and several moons. How does that work out for a calander? When does a year start? What would a Martian month be with 2 or more moons? how many days would be in a martian week and would they need leap years or not?
Oddly enough, this is how Inigo Montoya got his sword in The Princess Bride. His father was a master weaponsmith who was so famous that he was perpetually backlogged, until a man with six fingers came and asked for a blade weighted for his unusual deformity. Senor Montoya was so fascinated by the challenge that he dropped everything else. As for what happened, read the book or watch the movie.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
During WWII the Army Air Corp commissioned watches for the navigators aboard bombers. These watches had a 24 hour dial and were adjusted to run 4 mins. fast per day. They used siderial time rather than solar time. This aided in celestial navigation. I'm sure this was a fairly common practice in naval navigation as well; but I only have person knowledge of this example.
Things fall apart, it's scientific.
I don't get this. Why does everyone want a watch that goes slower? If you're making a digital watch, why not just reprogram the thing to count to 24:39 instead of 24:00 before wrapping around?
Adding precisely balanced extra weights to a mechanical watch and altering the frequency of the crystal or divider of a digital watch are both excessively complex measures. Keep It Simple, Stupid.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I'm confused -- why do all the watchmakers in the article keep saying "if it's even possible" to make a 24h39m watch? Is there something instrinsically special about a 24hr period that makes it a lot easier to construct a timepiece? Otherwise, the "if it's even possible" seems to translate to "if we haven't all forgotten why watches work in the first place," which would make me very dubious about these master watchmakers.
For all those out there thinking that its got to be a very expen$ive watch, consider this.
1. The average mechanical watch today costs way more than a cheap quartz module from hong kong.
It might cost as much as 4 HK dollars!
2. The actual conversion of either to mars time is trivial.
For a quartz model, just replace the crystal with a slower one, but this gets into qty pricing nightmares as that wouldn't be the same crystal used by the billions in most watches.
For the mechanical model, the better ones probably have enough range in the trimming screws in the edge of the balance wheel to achieve this, and the cheaper ones would need a little fatter wheel, or weaker clock spring, take your pick.
Bear in mind the length of this mission limits the effective expected lifetime, and the average far eastern mechanical movement, at 3 or 4 dollars hong kong, could be hacked up with a drop of solder, then trimmed to get the right speed, and the major expense for the hourologist doing the work is the time it will take, and the expense of coverting an old watchmaster to the different standard, and even that would require a more modern stable timebase version, and about 20 minutes per movement to get the required accuracy level for a short term project such as this.
In short, if he wanted to sell as many as he made, I'd think the maker could do it at $50 a watch and make lots of margin.
But, you can bet your ass that someplace in this little charade, the taxpayer will be offing a couple of grand per watch in subsidies from some unmarked fund. Isn't there a Murphys Law corolary regarding that?
It might be an interesting story, particularly if the details can be obtained with a FOI request. I mean, this sounds like the classical 600 dollar hammer all over again to me.
---
Cheers, Gene
Heck -- humans colonizing Mars could work out really well for the same reason.
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't...
Because they are literal rocket scientists, if it is not a rocket (or space probe), they don't know what to do with it. Metaphorical rocket scientists are much more adaptable in that they can also deal with assorted flying machines and other fun widgets. Neither group is good at computer programming unless it is for data processing or paycheck enhancement purposes (see sig that I promise was there before I saw the article).
And a non-24hr watch has that 'ooh, shiny' thing going for it.
> What can linux do that freebsd cant? dumbasses
Nothing was said or implied about your favourite operating system. Stop whining.
Why else?
It's not their own money...
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?
Because that would be too damn easy
Please use Bittorrent for distribution of full res pics, save the server load and still track interest by running the tracker yourself
All platforms are supported.
They're afraid of a SCO lawsuit!
We are BUILT for space exploration! Let's get those rocketships going!
Do the Martians wear special chronometers when they visit Earth?
Kenny P.
Visualize Whirled P.'s
i imagine many of the people who need the watch also have a mobile phone or pda (or combo of both).
what about a small app written for the task and installed on these? cheaper or faster?
well, at least its easily modifiable for other planets, where as the analog watch is not.
mechanical watches can "take a lickin' and keep on ticking" unlike a palm, or linux based device, which although the software is stable the hardware is still easily damaged in comparision to a all mechanical based device.
Pure mechanical watches rely on a weight oscilating from a spring pushing on it to advance "time" within the watch? How well does said watch work in space, where Gravity is "slightly less" than here on earth? It seems a simple quartz digital with a different denominator would be easier to reprogram to mars (or any time) than something which relys on weight (gravity) to work.
$5 quartz watches still work by giving a quartz crystal juice and dividing its constant Hz by some number to keep time, correct?
The reason to use a mechanical watch, in any enviroment, is survivability.
It needs to concume little power and the nergy needs to be contained. like wrist action or a wind up.
In a crunch, you can use a mechanical watch to find direction.
I bet if they used the word nano somewhere in the title, most people complaining would think it was cool.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
Because they're keepsakes. Besides, mechanical watches are durable. When the hero sets the bomb that collapses the mouth of the only cave that leads to the underworld in which the Martians are preparing their invasion force, you can be damned sure that he'll be glad he's got a watch that survived all those pulse weapons and electric torture lassos and whatnot, so that he's quite sure he's got three seconds to blast off before the whole planet goes Kaboom!.
Or whatever.
More importantly, they're collectables. All the astronauts are given hardware that they get to take home after the mission as a keepsake. I mean, if these guys are going to make the only form of travel more dangerous than ValuJet for like three months each way without peanuts solely for the sake of our curiosity, then we can god damned well buy them a watch.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
A mechanical watch works in every position. Gravity is of no importance. It is all about inertia, not gravity. Gravity is only of use for pendulum driven clocks. Did you see a reference to gravity in de formula?
The balance wheel is a wheel on a axis and a spring (like a spring in a clockwork) between the axis and a fixed point. The wheel rotates and the spring is wound until the wheel stops, it reverses it's rotation direction and de spring unwinds until the spring becomes 'overstretched', slowing the wheel an reversing direction again.
By the way, in the great times of moon exploration there weren't any digital watches available. They just used mechanical watches and given the tests the watches had to endure I doubt very much whether a digital watch would stand a change.
Nyh
More precisely, they rely on a mass oscillating under the influence of a spring. That mass (and its associated moment of inertia) stays fixed regardless of the gravity field you're in (or in freefall, as in orbit). The same goes for the important properties of the spring (within any reasonable gravity field.)
Watches are not gravity dependent--otherwise, you'd be in trouble if you held your arm the wrong way. Pendulum clocks, on the other hand, are very much dependent on gravity--their weight is quite important.
$5 quartz watches still work by giving a quartz crystal juice and dividing its constant Hz by some number to keep time, correct?
Correct, and a quartz oscillator and custom circuitry would certainly produce a perfectly serviceable watch for this purpose. Unfortunately, the minimum lot size for such custom work (as mentioned in the article) is ten thousand units--many more than JPL was anticipating a need for.
~Idarubicin
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
Why not make it in software? Because, although I'm a programmer, I think that mechanical solutions are more impressive and elegant.
Perhaps that's all my time in Riven talking though.
www.blueapples.org
Just more of our tax dollars at work here. Now I know why i'm paying $1.68 for a gallon of gas.. SO NASA can have new watches. Why do they need watches anyway? How the hell can you see a watch through a space suit? When they arn't in a space suit then they have the COMPUTER to tell them time. Where these watches made in china too?
AcmeShells.com The cheapest Eggdrop
i highly doubt that martians would know the latin or greek or indo-european etymologies concerning our everyday speak. that's one thing that's always bothered me about sci-fi.
they probably wouldn't speak english either, but at least they'd just translate their name for the planet into english if they did learn it. or use our word. and only geeks use the word terran.
but then again, who would make first contact is the geeks. ok. i take it all back.
terran it is.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Don't worry, once the RIAA takes care of all the music vendors, I'm sure they wouldn't mind hiring their goon squad out to Rolex to do the same thing.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
How long before we get Mars bottled water?
This comment betrays a certain lack of understanding of the functioning of mechanical watches.
They didn't put in any new gears. Doing so would have changed the gear spacing and required re-pivoting, an extremely laborious process. It would also have changed the ratio of seconds/minutes/hours. A custom made gear is also an extremely labor-intensive process. Also, because 1479 and 1440 have only 3 as a common divisor, it's not a small integral ratio and would probably take several additional gears (and would probably no longer fit in a watch case.)
What they did was adjust the period of the spring "pendulum" which forms the timebase. Increasing this by ~2.7% will make the watch hands run more slowly, so that it takes the watch 1479 minutes to register 2 full revolutions (12 "martian" hours each). 2.7% is much more than the usual tuning range for a mechanical watch, so it took much trial and error. The "more than $1000" (not "thousands") was for the watches sacrificed to the error part.
If it were a wall clock, with a gravity pendulum, you could just lengthen the pendulum appropriately, but the period of the pendulum wheel in a watch is more complex to determine.
As for "I'd be willing you could get a good watch repair joint to *make* you one of these", why that's just what they did! Mr. Anserlian's shop sounds like an outstanding one, and there aren't many left.
This kind of timebase tinkering isn't unprecedented, back in my radio astronomy days we had a klugy set-up that drove a wall clock with 59.8362... Hz AC so it would run at a sidereal rate (star time rather than sun time.) Eventually, we found it easier to program the computer to do the conversion and I pulled out the sidereal timebase (it was a pain to keep it running). The time for calculation might have been an issue for an optical telescope, but wasn't for our instrument.
If you could get 31,904 Hz quartz crystals, it would be trivial to convert an electronic watch to "martian" time. But the ubiquituous $0.66 32768 Hz miniature crystals are tricky little gadgets. Like so many gadgets, the 2nd and subsequent ones are cheap, but the first one cost literally millions. Custom crystals are easy to get for certain frequency ranges, where the shapes are simple and fundamental modes are used, but getting one that small to oscillate that low requires really tricky shaping. Easier to change the IC's divider chain to work off a standard crystal, but ICs work the same way--the first one is very expensive. Hence the reference in the article to large minimum orders.
All in all, though, I really think the easiest course would have been to program a PDA to do the time conversion...
I called Fossil last week, and they claimed that the Fossil Palm PDA would be shipping this month. I'm not sure that I believe it, since it's been "about to ship" for something like a year. Sales people at stores got trained last Summer, and are very excited about the product...
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
The engineers and scientists have to pay for their own watches, so you can sleep safe knowing that those thousands of dollars for mechanical watches aren't being paid for by taxes.
And how much do we pay each year to the Feds for military stationed abroad, food stamps, a bankrupt social security system, and debt servicing?
...you really don't get it.
if you wrote a nifty GNOME panel applet, then why the hell was I asked to write one? Does yours happen to show incidence angle and both mission times in TLST, too?
Is this a government operation, or what?
While they use laptops in the shuttle, a laptop that would last for months in space would probably require custom silicon.
So, it wouldn't surprise me at all for some eventual mission to mars to take mechanical watches.
i mean really you guys seem to make the mistake of thinking just because you are gay everyone else is
For however much money was spent, that portion did not go toward blowing someone up, or foisting stupid policy on the rest of the world, lying about it, and then saying we won. I'm not going to argue it one bit.
To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
remember these are the same geniuses who spent millions of dollars to design a pen that could write in zero G. Did you know what the Soviets did? they used pencils!
They probably wanting something that wasn't software based. Software is known to crash, plus the gears could work without protection. Who knows what the mars atmosphere would do to electronic, with the temperatures and the wind. A mechanical watch would be much more reliable.
Plus, it's kind of cool...
that is pretty good for a mechanical watch. The finest mechanical watches are certified by the Controle Officiel Suisse des Chronometres, or COSC. When a watch passes this certification, it can be called a Chronometer. The specs to pass this control? The range is -4 secs/day to +6 secs/day over 2 weeks (15 days actually, I believe). This is for Rolexes, Omega, and others that represent the finest watches made.
Sure, a quartz watch will lose a few seconds a year. However, I would hardly call any quartz watch a fine timepiece.
It would be much clearer to call them 24h-per-Martian-day watches.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Read Pedro Duque's blog during the Cervantes mission. The Russians used ballpoint pens.
He said we are going to go to mars We are so ready......
We just dropped 250 billion dollars invading, occupying, and rebuilding Iraq, and you guys are bitching about JPL scientists buying watches with their own salaries. If you ask me, if the only gov't pork was custom watches, well, then, let's let everyone have them!
This is my sig.
Changing the oscillation would alter the value of a second and minute... there are certain gear ratios that could be slightly altered and a diagram the clock would still need 60seconds to be one rotation of the second and 60minutes to be one rotation of the minute hand but the gear ratio for the hour would need to be altered and the circle of hours would need to be changed too... A Much more simple solution would be to accelerate asteroids and\or maybe a few comets and speed up the rotation of Mars by 39 minutes. that way even the people with digital watches will be happy. Oh and for good measure NASA needs to invent a Planetary Radiation Shield since Mars doesn't have a strong magnetic field...(just like in Master of Orion 2) really just the side facing the sun needs to be shielded I think the night side can handle stray cosmic rays.. But really the planet will never be able to keep a decent atmosphere if solar wind strips the gases away from the planet...
The problem with the watches is that they are analog. You can't see them in the dark, and they don't have alarms. Check out the Mars alarm clock.
If I had martian watch, how would I know what time to set it to?
Are there timezones are mars?
These guys have REAL jobs...why would they waste their time dicking arround with a fucking programmable watch when they can teleoperate robots ON FUCKING MARS!
Christ...the story submitter is an idiot. If he's questioning NASA's judgement, why doesn't HE create that watch and give away his code for free so the JPL guys can save some scratch! Oh yeah...typical Open Source Zealot...screams if it ain't free but doesn't have the skills to do it themselves.
Blar.
correction - celestial time is sidereal time not siderial
If he is patenting the process of adding weights to a watch I could care less (and I didn't want to work woth lead anyway). I just hope he isn't trying to patent the idea of 39 extra minutes in a day.