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Gene Therapy Creates Strong Super-Rats
srstoneb writes "The AP is reporting about a
gene therapy study in which muscle tissue in rats is modified to grow at an accelerated rate. The researchers are mainly interested in combating muscular dystrophy, but obviously there are other potential applications, both good and bad, for a treatment which makes you stronger. Athletic ethics are addressed in the article (it's in the sports section, after all), and rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe regular Tom Galloway -- who posted the link there, where I saw it -- made a comparison to the 'super-soldier serum' that created Captain America. Based on the article, a vaguely Wolverine-like healing factor is another benefit as the therapy allows faster recovery from injury. We already had a non-powered superhero
reported last year. Who knows what the future may hold? ^_^" (And that's not the only natural-born superhero.)
Rats with "vaguely Wolverine-like healing factor".
Wonderful.
I can see the pest control guys kitting up with miniguns and RPGs.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
I for one welcome our new mutant rat overlords.
G4 Hackintosh
Good news for 'pro' wrestlers then!
Progis Riport 1.
Algernon kickd me in th nuts! It is sawr.
I'm sorry, I'll post something useful eventually!
Superrat "Mitee Mus" runs for governor of the Democratic Republic of California, winning 63% of the votes. Standing 7'3" tall, weighing 120kg and gifted with an IQ of 192, Mitee Mus told reporters "Now I can get to the real business of building nice warm nests for every Californian". He is married to the cousin of a Kennedy.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
The new superhero:
Superrat
He lives in the sewers, fights evil crocodile-ninjas.
And his only weakness is his secret addiction to cheese.
Master Splinter ? (Turtles)
Spelling mistakes: My is english spoken not tongue of mother.
[..] and rec.arts.comics.marvel.universe regular Tom Galloway -- who posted the link there, where I saw it -- made a comparison to the 'super-soldier serum' that created Captain America.
Breaking news. Toms Hardware is going to be benchmarking the Athlon FX-51 against the WOPR from WarGames!
This is the only way we'll be able to compete in hand to hand combat with the robots that we'll assuredly create and be forced to fight against in the near future.
With the rise-and-rise of agribusiness and the permanent pressure they place on our governments, how long before such genetic modifications are made to cows, pigs, etc.?
Bus error in your favour. Collect 200kB
Who'd win? Super Rat, or this? ;)
Now we have another species to compete with. I wonder who will win in the upcoming war.
EVERYDAY IS CATURDAY
You mean the usenet is still used for things besides spam, porn, and warez??? I can't believe it.
A new version of Steroids...
I remember when HGH (Human Growth Hormone) was being abused by bodybuilders... I wonder if we will have a similar scenario with this...
Tom Servo: No, actually, Helping Children Through Research And Development is the acronym, Mike. It stands for: Hi, Everyone, Let's Pitch In 'N' Get Cracking Here In Louisiana Doing Right, Eh? Now Then, Hateful, Rich, Overbearing Ugly Guys Hurt Royally Every Time Someone Eats A Radish, Carrot, Hors d'oeuvre, And Never Does Dishes. Eventually, Victor Eats Lunch Over Peoria Mit Ein Neuesberger Tod.
Post apocalyptic gaming goodness
I thought that the concern with steroids was that they posed long-term health risks... not that they made people stronger. The concept of limiting strength to those with naturally good genes is quite elitist.
That's like saying that someone with bad eyesight shouldn't get glasses. If this therapy is as side-effect free as claimed, then why shouldn't people be allowed to use it?
After all, implants and other non-essential plastic surgery is legal...
Reference is to "Flowers for Algernon."
I don't.
In related news, an Indian named Khan Singh has spoken out in favor of the new genetic enhancements, volunteering himself and his friends as the first test-subjects.
It sounds great in theory, but there are all kinds of potential problems with rapidly and artificially increasing strength that way.
If you increase strength very rapidly without allowing for the corresponding tendons and bone to adapt to the greater muscle mass, you can cause tendon ruptures and stress fractures (already well-known phenomenon in athletes). The body can adapt to all kinds of derangements if you give it enough time, but too much too fast? Bad news. I've seen people come in to the hospital with a hemoglobin level of 5, still walking (slowly) and talking. Now, that's theoretically too low to survive on, but if it happens over a long enough period of time, your body can adapt. If you take a normal person and immediatly bleed them down to a hemoglobin of 5, they'll die.
Plus, if you are turning over too much muscle tissue too fast and don't stay adequately hydrated, you can clog your kidneys and end up in renal failure. This happens periodically when some untrained amateur athelete tries an Ironman without adequate conditioning.
The human body is an amazing machine, but you have to be careful monkeying around with it... athletes may be after performance, but anyone who volunteers to be a guinea pig for this stuff needs his head examined.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
They are already taking power is Aussie (jonny Howard)
Google is cheating too.
I wonder if this would also help stop or reduce the breakdown of muscle tissue, when used to combat the effects of genetic conditions like Marfans Syndrome.
Another application might be to solve certain heart related issues. There isn't exactly a huge replacement supply right now.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Isn't something like this in the "startrek" universe? Where in the early -> late 21st century they had the Eugenics war fought by genetically engineered humans?
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
As each discovery occurs, the following question arises: What should be the responsabilities of the researcher for his discoveriy's implication? As a scientist, I can tell that it is a difficult matter. The key question is how far does the responsability goes? nel
Enough said
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
Great, we have the rat... now we just need some turtles.
Why do you think an american tenderloin beef is larger than a european one? Correct - the US beef is gene modificated. That's why there's a ban on importing beef from the US to Europe. Now, this has been going on for more than a decade. Altering muscles genetically is not news! But using the enlarged muscles for something other than to make larger beefs is. Of course, this has been explored in countless action movies already like Soldier and Drive
I actually have muscular dystrophy, and although it doesn't affect me, it affects my mum, and potentially my children - I'm damn glad that someone has taken the time to research this oft (relatively) overlooked genetic disease.
My Portfolio
I wonder how 'vaguely Wolverine" these healing abilities are.
It's be interesting to see precisely what applications these advancements are seeing in military use. Sure, it's unlikely that any serious or controversal issue gets used right away by mainstream military, but surely there are special military groups that get "advanced tech" quite, in, er, advance of the main military force.
I heard/read somewhere once that the US military's "high end" technology is 12 years more advanced than anything that is actually available for the mainstream military force, and only used by Special Ops.
Consider how un-advanced things were during the first desert storm compared to how they are now - and jump ahead another years, and think of an equal amount of differential, if not an exponential differential. Wow.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Look at TNG, the advance imune system also kills.
Fight Spammers!
Reminds me old science fiction story from one of the OMNI's paperbacks. About Olimpic games and all US and Russian teams having genetically modified memebers. Everything was there IIRC. Swimmers with fins, wrestlers with with TRex like bodies and well Russian boxer (who wins gold medal by several points) having his brain in his... well... ass.
- Back off man. I am a scientist
Remember when the US government tried to replicate the supersoldier formula during their diabolical plan to force Captain America to retire? Would-be replacement John Walker did become super strong, but he also became super evil. That was a dark day in the history of Captain America.
Look out, science. You may be creating a monster.
For someone with Marfan's syndrome.
Marfan's syndrome is a genetic defect in the gene that codes for Fibrillin, a major component of microfibrils in the body's connective tissues. Much of the pathologic consequences are noted in the eye and the aorta... the former location gets dislocations of the lens, and the latter location develops large (fatal if undiagnosed) aortic aneurysms. Marfanoid patients also tend to be tall, and have a lot of laxity in their joints, primarily because of their weakened connective tissues.
If you have weaker connective tissue than normal, it would probably be counterproductive to have greatly increased muscle mass.
I'm not picking on you, just pointing out that it might not be exactly what a Marfan's patient really needs... It might be useful in some kinds of muscular dystrophies, but the most common kinds have defective myofibrils... creating more non-functional muscle wouldn't appear to help them very much.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
makes you stronger. strength crushes enemies. gene therapy! gene therapy! gene therapy!
Rodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
I, for one, Welcome Our New ... *sigh* that used to be funny too ...
<? include ('signature.inc'); ?>
I will assmeble the ultimate real-life superhero team to Save the Universe! It will be called the Ultimate Super Hero International Team! The roster is carefully chosen to represent the most gifted and talented real-life adventurers from across the globe!
On it will be the daring leader and Weapons Expert, Angle Grinder Man! (Linked to above.) Also...
Aerospace Expert: Lawn Chair Larry!
Science and Technology Expert: Troy Hurtubise, inventor of the famous Bear Proof Suit! (Tested by real bikers! And bears! It's bear and biker proof!)
Matter Eating Expert: Sonya Thomas, the Black Widow!
Sneaking Across the Country Naked Expert: Steven Gough!
With these mighty heroes, the Ultimate Super Hero International Team, the Universe shall be Saved!
SoupIsGood Food
I was wondering how many moderators wouldn't actually read the post properly. That's one "redundant" mod now, and counting.
He is Ben, King of Rats"
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
The stupid thing is that if they were just in it for the prize money, they could have taken up golf and got paid far more for the onerous duty of wearing a particular brand of patterned sweater.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
The Super-Server man is here! I've already beefed up the server's backbone and hardware, so the site should not suffer from any problems.
Don't thank me, it's all in a days work.
Posted anonymously to retain my secret identity.
Just wondering if this would be useful for building up muscle mass to combat long periods in low-gravity - such as a manned trip to Mars?
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
I hope I'm not the only person that ran through a scenario similar to this: Tune in next week as we talk to famed counter-terrorist, Solid Snake, and his escapades at the island of Shadow Moses in Alaska. Not to mention his encounter with the genome soldiers.
Learn something new.
There exist entire categories of diseases based entirely on immune system problems.
Rheumatoid arthritis, mixed connective tissue disease, Lupus, etc... all are autoimmune, and are a result of the body's immune system attacking itself. These diseases can be devilishly difficult to diagnose and treat... there's a reason why Rheumatology is its own medical specialty. Some of the drugs the rheumatologists use are potentially nasty, and include transplant drugs, and chemotheraputic agents... not stuff for the faint of heart.
By the same token, when you start monkeying around with DNA, you need to be careful what genes you activate or deactivate... Cancer is fundamentally a genetic disease, and a real possibility if you get an unregulated growth gene (or you inadvertantly turn off a suppressor gene). Cancers are funny things; they can even respond to simple hormones... precisely why women with a breast cancer history aren't advised to receive hormone replacement therapy.
Gene therapy has had some successes, but it's really in its infancy... I'd be awfully leery about using it just to bulk up at the gym. On the other hand, if you have a lethal genetic defect, and you're going to die without it, have at it. Forget Hans and Franz... you can find quite a few patients with potentially lethal genetic diseases (Cystic Fibrosis, etc) who'd be much better candidates for gene therapy than some weight-lifter.
It bears repeating... using it for simple body-building is absolutely foolhardy... instead of growing big pectoral muscles, you might inadvertently be growing yourself a big fat tumor... that'll look great at the beach.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
the getting stronger from playing video games article we had a few weeks ago and we have the worlds first super-nerd.
1888 Franklin St.
We've got a race of super-rats living in the back alley. They're about 3-feet long, and heckle us with merciless honesty about our most sensitive insecurities...
-------------------------------------------
I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells.
-- Dr. Seuss
Will it work on my penis?
Speaking at Defcon 12 - Credit Card Networks Revisted: Pen
To see a world in a grain of sand, and then to step back and see the beach where the sand lies
'nuff said? /vaguely Wolverine-like healing factor
hate titty pee colon slash slash
It Soviet Russia, rat genetically modifies you!
Would i be right in assuming that the rats tested are normal, i.e. have not been "working out"? If muscles are enlarged by 100%, would the same happen to a already muscle-bound rat (or human) is it going to make a difference to naturally highly developed muscles? - are we going to end up with athletes like balloons?
I, for one, welcome our new super strong rat overlords
In my experience the special ops guys had to borrow gear from the regular units. They can't afford to waste guys on maintenance and storage I guess.
did you actually think someone would mod you up?
thats the 4th joke on that line of thinking ive seen in this thread. i think its dead jim.
American beef can certainly be imported into the the EU. I grew up in Omaha and ordered beef shipped to me in the UK while I lived there (2001). I was told by the salesperson on the phone that Omaha Steaks went thru some kind of certification process with EU regulators. Great beef BTW.
http://www.omahasteaks.comdo you like trolling you troll?
the only thing that will never go out of style is calling people trolls. so woot in your face you lame sucka
drew barrymore rocks!!!
btw your stupid IRL afk OK BBL ROFL STFU newbie...
in soviet russia I FUCKIGN KILLED YOU
Because athletics (especially bodybuilding) is as much about how you got there as it is about what you can do. Gene therapy is considered a form of cheating.
If you want to make someone stronger forget genetics and all this hi-tech stuff. Take a leave out of other primates books and move the muscle
attachments further along the bone away from the joint so giving a much greater mechanical advantage. Ever wondered why that 100 pound chimp is
so damn strong and how 500 pound gorillas can pull themselves up a tree with one arm? Well thats why.
Parent is modded INFORMATIVE?!
What is slashdot coming to?
Founder of Mirror Moon - Tsukihime Game Trans
I don't consider angle-grinder man a hero. he only helps the guilty by destroying a valid law-enforcement device paid for with taxes. that's a super-villain in my book.
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
A traveling salesman stops by a farm and in the process of trying to sell his wares becomes aware of something strange out in the yard. It's a tiny newborn chick - with eight legs.
The farmer notices him staring and decides to explain. The idea is that when people buy a chicken, everyone wants a leg but since there are only two legs someone always misses out. So, what the farmer has done is to breed chickens with more legs.
The salesman leaves shaking his head and doesn't think any more about it, until two years later he's in the same area and decides to go back to the farm. When he gets there he sees the farm is in disrepair, overrun with eight-legged chickens and the farmer looks starved and poor.
"What's happened?" asks the salesman. "The last time I was here you looked like you were onto a good thing breeding eight-legged chickens."
"Ah," replies the farmer, "the breeding program was a great success. The problem is we can't catch them!"
If you can't think of something nice to say then don't say anything at all. No, REALLY.
is a real phenomenon... I've seen people go truly bonkers from high-dose steroids.
It seems to be dose-dependent, and your chance of developing it is independent of whether you've had it in the past (ie. just because you went nuts one time, doesn't mean you'll do it again). Your odds also seem to vary depending on why you're receiving the steroids, suggesting that the initial disease process plays a role.
It's also more common in women than men (no joke intended or implied).
Some people don't like steroids, but I do (having been prescribed them in the past)... they give you lots of energy, all your little aches and pains go away, and you feel good. (there is a certain amount of euphoria with steroids). But there's a downside... a big downside. Check any medical text (or the PDR) for the long-term side effects of steroid use. Go ahead, I'll wait.
Ok, you looking at it? Yeah... that's the list I'm talking about... the one that goes on for several pages (and includes "roid rage")... you don't want to get on the long-term steroid train unless you absolutely have NO alternatives. That said, properly applied in the proper dose and for the proper duration, they're great, helpful, and lifesaving drugs... one of the most useful drug classes in modern medicine's arsenal.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Erm - sorry, but I believe that link refers to the infamous Monkey Man of Tunbridge Wells.
:-)
Is it a bird?
Is it a plane?
No, it's a prank from B3ta.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Its just about muscles.
I was worried that I was going to read about scientists creating super smart rats who subsequently trap scientists and force them to eat all sorts of bizarre substances in obscene proportions while running through mazes.
Steve
Maybe this therapy could be used to combat muscle wastage on long space journeys. It would have to be accompanied by something to stop the bones breaking down, though, or the landing on Mars could be very painful.
Those rats do run things. they are manipulating us to make them stronger so then can take over.
Finally! A penis enlarger that really works!
eTrade SUCKS
http://www.readingmatters.co.uk/books/mrs-frisby-n imh.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060 012331/002-9510878-3940014?v=glance
As opposed to what? Feeble super-rats?
"You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
Here - http://www.johnnyversace.com/1.gif [work safe] As you can see, the side effects include increased hair growth as well as super sexual powers. I'm pretty sure the other men in the picture are trying to hold the woman away from the superhuman.
I remember something along the lines of that story, from wired:
/ ST _mouse_32.jpg
Gene therapy may be a distant dream for humans, but for rodents the future is now. By adding and subtracting DNA, researchers have already bred lab animals that can gorge on fatty foods and stay thin. Others build up muscle without lifting a paw. Still others boast unparalleled powers of recovery or regrow lost cartilage. But what if scientists combined all their improvements in a single supermouse? Our ripped little rodent would look something like this.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/images
bigger image here:
http://www.mondolithic.com/00Gallery09.htm
Dennis Miller: In response to what its sponsors claim is an idea whose time has come, the first All-Drug Olympics opened today in Bogota, Columbia. Athletes are allowed to take any substance whatsoever before, after, and even during the competition. So far, 115 world records have been shattered! We go now to correspondent Kevin Nealon, live in Bogota for the Weightlifting Finals. Kevin?
Kevin Nealon: Dennis, getting ready to lift now is Sergei Akmudov of the Soviet Union. His trainer has told me that he's taken antibolic steroids, Novacaine, Nyquil, Darvon, and some sort of fish paralyzer. Also, I believe he's had a few cocktails within the last hour or so. All of this is, of course, perfectly legal at the All-Drug Olympics, in fact it's encouraged. Akmudov is getting set now, he's going for a cleaning jerk of over 1500 pounds, which would triple the existing world record. That's an awful lot of weight, Dennis, and here he goes.
[ Kevin steps aside to reveal the steroid-bulked athlete bent over to lift the 1500 lbs. weight. Sergei tightens his grip on the barbells and pulls up, but instead of lifting the weights, his arms are pulled off and blood squirts ferociously out of his pulpy stubs. ]
Kevin Nealon: Oh! He pulled his arms off! He's pulled his arms off, that's gotta be disappointing to the big Russian! [ Sergei's trainer wraps a towel around him ] You know, you hate to see something like this happen, Dennis! He probably doesn't have that much pain right now, but I think tomorrow he's really gonna feel that, Dennis! Back to you!
Dennis Miller: Thank you, Kevin. Very nice form on the Russian. Canada, of course, is leading that competition.
credit
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Funniest thing I read in a while :) Grandparent too :)
--Coder
I'm sure your a fine person and all, but natural selection has a purpose, undesirable traits generally do not get passed on.
I for one welcome our new strong super-rat overloards.
Then you'd have to pay Darl $690 if you want to live.
Wishing I was a millionaire since 1969.
So if this therapy become common for the public, and athletes are the only ones who can't use it, does that mean that athletes will be the whimpiest people around? Does this mean that computer geeks will be able to push around pro football players?
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
It seems like a lot of people are comparing this to steroids and pointing out that steroids have health risks. This is true only when they are abused. Anabolic steroids, when cycled properly, have no ill effects. The sources of this information are the lectures I've had on reproductive and developmental biology in medical school and college. (I would never take them, though)
And that's not the only natural-born superhero.
That AngleGrinder Man is an ass. The automobile is a menace. It pollutes. Causes sprawl. Is both personally and publicly VERY VERY expensive. Dangerous. Smelly. And encourages poor health.
London has every Right to want to make selfish auto-drivers play by the rules. The Auto is NOT the be-all-end-all public-policy device that needs satisfying.
Because I advocate sustainability, I ride my bike. I am damn tired of my Municipal, Provincial and Federal Taxes being spent to bandage up crash victims, insure the public against this menace, watch the best agricultural land get run over by big-box consumer-depots, animals and plants get paved under, water bespoiled, and on and on all because some asshat thinks its his right to scream 100 km/h through my residential neighbourhood and park on the sidewalk.
If there is any hope, the public is going to have to adjust its perspective/tolerance of the Auto and its destructive culture.
If fucking tired of it, and this AngleGrinder Man is an ignorant fucking tool... By the way. I work for one of the Big Three NorthAmerican AutoCo's.
'What do we do tonight, Brain?'
'That's Magneto, damn you! And we do the same thing we do ever night, Pinky.. try to take over the world with our rodent superpowers! And how many times do I have to tell you? Stop licking off that blue body paint!'
They already discovered and implemented this in Mexico a long time ago.
[alk]
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
and if I had mod points that post would be +4 right now. He's absolutely correct.
People with debilitating genetic diseases should be put down. You're ruining the gene pool.
I'm a computational biologist.
My problem with performance enhancing drugs is that they hurt the athletes - people should not ruin their lives in order to compete; they should not be under *pressure* to destroy themselves in order to compete.
To the extent that gene therapy might-merely-give everyone the benefit of the "best" possible human genes, I don't have a problem with it. Likewise, any hypothetical performance enhancing drug that was not harmful - I wouldn't have a problem with that. None of these things eliminate the elements of Skill, Discipline and Dedication.
The problem, of course, is that in "optimizing" a person for athletic performance you may pay an opportunity cost - in the form of sociability, intellectual development or lifespan.
Performance enhancement should be regulated to make sure that the athletes are not harmed - which is a crime AGAINST the athlete and not BY the athlete. Who cares about CHEATING when someone could fucking die?
In the case of this treatment - it strikes me that this is something that most people would benefit from, actually. If it is safe (which is a VERY big if) then in a modern human (with no calorie shortage, indeed an excess) this treatment could be expected to have a favorable impact on lifespan, and on health and vitality particularly in late old age (where loss of muscle mass -> related conditions are a major health issue). The chief effect of forcing someone to evolve more muscle tissue is to reduce the amount of adipose tissue (fat.) Of course it is much more complicated than that and I don't doubt that there are side effects for a treatment of this kind which would need to be considered, but - are we going to deny athletes a treatment that the general population takes in order to IMPROVE their health? Clearly not.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
That step's not small enough. Anyone with a debilitating genetic disease should be sterilized. Sorry, I put the rights of the unborn children over the vanity and selfishness of the parent poster of this thread. He wants to have kids who will also be disabled. What an asshole.
Some of us already vote with our wallets, and i'd second the notion that it's how to get the idea out there that we might want to know what's in our food. I hate to bring up the same old song again, but the truth is that there are a lot of reasons for GMO food to be labelled, and some of it has to do with current, known allergies, intolerances, and illnesses. Obviously, this won't matter if a GM rat makes it into the food market- anyone who's eating rat probably isn't watching their diet for such things too closely. But when it comes to cows? It's hard enough to find cows that aren't being fed other cows (mad cow disease, anyone?) Do we know what a prion disease would do in a supercow? would they be more immune, or would they just survive longer as incubators, becoming more infectious once they got turned into feed? (I don't know if they're 100% sure that that's how it spreads, but i think that's what they've decided to go with here in the US.)
What if they just show fewer symptoms?
Granted, the non-organic but anti-growth-hormone folks might like this path (except for me, but i'm a treehugging crazy white chick who has immune and food allergy problems; i have to be careful what i buy in the first place) but i'd like folks to have a lot more time to think about it before it hits the market.
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
While muscle loss does occur in freefall, it isn't the big problem; That loss can be combated by regular exercise. The problem is bone density loss, and if you pump up someone's muscles while their bones are weakening, you just get a person who can shatter their arms when flexing.
than millions of years of evolution...
Eat at Joe's.
Friends, we make our move *tonight*. The password is "rosebush".
Nicodemus.
If you removed the anti-drug prohibitions from sports, I bet ( with a few exceptions such as weightlifting ) that most sports would still be dominated by healthy drug-free competitors.
Eat at Joe's.
Drugs won out over GE in the Star Trek universe.
Eat at Joe's.
Millions of years? But I'm hungry now!
You're kidding yourself. It would turn most sports into something akin to auto racing: some component of competitive skill on the field or track, but mainly a competition between the engineers behind the scenes, and the fundraisers who pay for it all. It might still be interesting in some aspects, but sending an unenhanced human out there would be like sending a Chevy off the lot to go race against the "stock" cars in the Daytona 500...
---Conspiracy Theory---
Military Technology:
The current one that I've heard is that, while the civilian population is in something like computer development year 40, while the military is in development year 95. Or, in other words, if the civilian population is discovering and creating new computer "stuff" at a rate which we label as the control rate, the expieremental rate of the military is more than twice as fast. Which is scary.
---Conspiracy Theory---
The thing is, though, it's probably not true. I mean, I know people that work for the military, and not once has any one ever even hinted at the ability to do anything beyond current capabilities of civilian population. Even the stuff that you see that's the "next big thing", like automated machinery or combat suits with integrated HUDs, look so 6 years ago compared to the latest from Apple.
~Will
sig?
...The Red Skull is quoted as saying "Rats? Ok whatever; just keep that damned 'Bucky' kid away from me."
Paul Lenhart writes words!
You have been reading too many "vaguely Wolverine" comics.
Or, if you prefer, Trickle-Down Genetics, Supply-Side Genetics, or my personal favorite, Reagenetics!
It didn't work for the economy. It won't work for the gene pool.
Seriously though, evolutionary pressure (encompassing the workings of both Natural and "Socioeconomic" selection) among human beings (if it still functions at all) is far too subtle and complicated to be used as rationale for or against any of this. To put it bluntly, we are too stupid to figure out exactly how (if) it works on us. The complexity of human behavior makes it nearly impossible to figure out what traits give modern humans a significant reproductive advantage.
My personal theory (developed in the course of getting my BA in Anthropology) is that because human beings evolved in a "tribal," hunter-gatherer environment, a lot of the problems we encounter in the modern world are a result of our "primitive" minds and bodies trying to cope with the amazing complexity of the world around us - a complexity we created piece by piece. In essence, we are not cut out to handle the world we have made, so each of us must muddle through as best we can and take solace in knowing that noone really knows what the hell they are doing in this life. (IMO the most fucked-up people are the ones that think they understand it all.)
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I instantly pictured a room full of lab rats directly wired into various X-Box and PS2 consoles, honing their FPS/fragging skills, and getting ready to take over the world. But then I remembered that Super-Strong Rats, or SSRs, are intelligent and friendly, just like in "The Secret of NIMH".
So I am no longer worried about our new SSR overlords.
CHeers!
"The only good windmill is a tilted windmill."
To draw an analogy, much like yellow is vaguely like black.
Wolverine could heal in _seconds_ from injuries that would be fatal to normal people... the article doesn't even imply that's what's been accomplished. It simply mentions that injury can be overcome more easily, not anything akin to high speed tissue regeneration, which is the ability that Wolverine had.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Also, at least for stock cars, there are many many restrictions as to what engineers can do to a car which are designed to make the cars more or less equal in order to let the drivers compete with each other. I don't know about Indy Cars though, but I always thought Indy car matchboxes were cool because they can fly. Their spoilers are actually wings. Also any matchbox/hotwheels with doors that can open can also fly since car doors are known for their aerodynamic lifting powers.
Eat at Joe's.
On the match between Mr. Super Human and Mr. Smart Guy With A Gun?
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Now I can have the super muscles I've always wanted. Just wait 'til your inbox is flooded with "One pill a day and you can have super muscles, too! I don't know how it works, but it does!"
What is your penile percentile?
"The vision for the Metabolic Dominance Program is to develop novel strategies that exploit and control the mechanisms of energy production, metabolism, and utilization during short periods of deployment requiring unprecedented levels of physical demand. The ultimate goal is to enable superior physical and physiological performance by controlling energy metabolism on demand. An example is continuous peak physical performance and cognitive function for 3 to 5 days, 24 hours per day, without the need for calories."
the Wired Article:. html?tw=wn_tophead_1
http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,62297,00
the DARPA announcement:d 2.htm
http://www.darpa.mil/dso/solicitations/baa03-02mo
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from the Yahoo article, was Monkey Man of Tumbridge Wells. He was an elaborate spoof created by ccc of b3ta. There were no sightings of him, all the sightings were fabricated by ccc himself and sent into local newspapers. It was quite big news over here in the UK. I had the pleasure of speaking to the Monkey Man on the radio when he revealed himself, and he's a damn nice bloke
For indepth monkey-truth, click here!
Gamers Europe - Gaming News. Reviews.
Natural selection is circular reasoning given scientific authority. Mojo is about as descriptive. At least someone gets it enough to say they don't get it.
The current one that I've heard is that, while the civilian population is in something like computer development year 40, while the military is in development year 95.
Riiiight. And that's why most DoD machines (and MoD machines, according to my friends in England) run Windows 2000? And most of the rest run either Solaris, HP-UX, or Linux? Sounds pretty much like corporate America to me.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
See the mutant super-rats take on New York's finest, ugliest, scariest in all-out death-match! Get you tickets now at the Garden box office. BE THERE!
Brad Roberts'>.
I can't wait for the gene therapy schlong enhancing spam to arrive.
Natural selection is a valid, accurate, and thoroughly scientific concept. I have studied it fairly comprehensively and i do get it.
I'm arguing that because the process is so complex, you cannot predict the outcome when applying it to human beings. Just because we can't understand how the system applies in a particular case doesn't mean it isn't working.
Pull your head out of the sand (and by sand, i mean your ass) and take a look at the real world for a change.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Excellent, now we have the physical training and experimental super-heroes coming up on the horizon. There's already been reports of the first mutant to publicly reveal herself. X-Ray Girl will live in history. Oh sure it's not much of a power really, but it's a start.
I just know if I now concentrate hard enough mine will emerge.... my luck it'd just give me Super-Aneurysm-Causing powers.
"Not all who wander are lost" -- JRR Tolkien
>
> The corollary is that the poor and ugly people are worse. The same logic was used to justify the sterilization movements in the United States and the extermination of the Jews in Nazi Germany. No, the Jews were exterminated because (1) the Nazis needed a scapegoat, and (2) if you believed Nazi propaganda, because they controlled all the money on the planet, or some such bunkum.
The sterilization movement in the US had nothing to do with scapegoating or allegations of control - I fail to recall any allegation that the retarded were Communist infiltrators or secretly holding onto the world's purse strings, from even the most strident McCarthyite.
Eugenics is not National Socialism. The Nazis gave eugenics a bad rap, and maybe it's time we realized that eugenics is nothing to be afraid of.
Seriously - what's so wrong with selecting for intelligence, as opposed to "big butts"? Intelligence is partially determined by genetics, and also by cultural factors. Both need to be selected for.
I'll grant that there are almost as many potential Einsteins in the ghettoes as there are in suburbia. But if you've got Einstein's genes, and you're born to a crack whore shitting out six kids and raising them in a memeset that considers its own ignorance as a mark of cultural pride ("Yo, dat skoolin's fo' whitey! Y'all don't wants ta be actin' white!"), you're doomed from the get-go. When more of your population group is in prison than in college, you don't have an intelligence problem, you have a cultural problem.
Likewise, the most hundrum set of IQ100 genes, raised in a culture that values knowledge, science, and realizes that a good education is a key to survival in a knowledge-based economy, can have a successful and productive life.
If we wanted to be technical, I'm arguing more about memetics than genetics, and my sterilization programme should be called "eumetics", rather than "eugenics".
As someone who pays more in taxes to support the aforementioned trash than I spend on every other expense, including food, shelter, travel, ongoing education, and recreational activities combined, I want some return on that investment. Breeding more consumers of social services feeds my government's appetite for more voters, but doesn't contribute in any way to my country's long-term economic stability.
Eliminating the drag on our economy - preferably through through sterilization, less preferably through cutting social payments without cutting the population of consumers, and much less preferably through extermination - and using the savings to fund the education of people who are culturally receptive to learning, would be a Big Win.
You may not like the fact that high educational standards are required of the citizens of post-industrial states in a globalized economy, but that's the economic reality. We need to improve our population's net overall educational level, and eumetics (the sterilization of those who are uneducated, unemployable, and have demonstrated themselves culturally-unreceptive-to-learning) is merely the least repugnant way of doing it.
Finally, consider that a eumetics programme could be less repugnant than what we're doing now -- namely government funding of excessive breeding, throwing the offspring in prison, and charging the economically productive for the government's privilege to do so.
They are subtle overlords. If we experiment on them and things go well then obviously it's something they are suggesting we should be doing to ourselves.
42
Don't worry, my grandkids will have a little penguin logo tattoo.
KHAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!!
How about this guy? Freaky-low lactic acid production, high lactic-acid clearing, huge heart, VO2 Max (oxygen uptake to blood) more than twice the average person... And he beat cancer when he had about a 20% chance of living through it. Then he went and won the toughest race in the world. Five times. In a row.
blog |
You're fooling yourself. Steroids are the most famous performance enhancing drugs, but there are others. You can increase strength, stamina, adrenaline, and pain tolerance to levels no natural trainee could match.
Why are people focused on the what WE could do wrong with this. Doesn't anyone see that we already have mutant Rats that will rise up and kill us all??!?
Funniest man ever on SNL...
I only mod up parents of "mod parent up" posts...
...MORE Management.
Not a popular topic. Of course not.
Does that make it untrue? I thought geeks could be objective. I guess not.
Doesn't anyone here have experience wirth genetic algorithms or artificial life? Examine the parent post with an eye towards those techniques and then re-mod. I don't think there were value judgements in that post, the poster was not trying to claim that any individuals were lesser or greater, only that certain traits have a statistically greater chance of showing up near wealth and (as we all know) wealth tends also to act as a protective shield and a seperate evolutionary (read population) space.
I find the comments interesting and insightful, even if distasteful. If you don't, perhaps you are the ignorant fool with his/her head in the sand.
by injections of a gene-manipulated virus that goes to muscle tissue and causes a rapid growth of cells.
This sounded vaguely familiar so I went and looked up the definition of cancer:
Cancer develops from a single cell that has undergone mutations in its DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid), the genetic material which carries the body's hereditary instructions. Instead of maturing normally and dying, cancerous cells reproduce without restraint. It's not that they divide faster, but that they never stop dividing, and they fail to mature. (Emphasis mine) When removed from the body and placed in a laboratory dish with nutrients, they actually seem to be immortal.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this similar to CAUSING a temporary cancer in the rat??
Anyone else flash back to "The Secret of Nimh?"
Steroids are about more than simply adding bulk. Steroids increase the levels of anabolic hormones such as testosterone. This can provide strength, bulk, and faster muscle recovery times. Here's a simple litmus test for whether steroids would improve performance: do men perform better than women? In virtually all sports, the answer is yes, and the reason is testosterone.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
That's no superhero. That's junk Frank Costanza's lawyer.
It had to be said.
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
Rodents of Unusual Size?? What's next Flame Spurts and Lightning Sand?
Great, you've doubled the strength of a subject human. What about his skeletal system? his spinal column? his ligaments?, non-muscular components of his cardio-vascular system? Are they likewise increased in strength/capacity?
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It's not nice to fool with mother nature....
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anyway, my 2 cents.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Who cares about the rats! I'm 30 and thought I had outgrown getting stuffed in a locker or getting those horrible atomic wedgies.
Now those highschool punks will be big enough to beat on me again! Maybe it is time to stock up on RPGs. As in -7s. Maybe one of those new thermobaric jobs from Bazalt.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
Wonder which "muscle" they'll claim to enlarge as a side effect.
I don't see the problem with doping. How do you think we test new drugs for humans? People get paid to test drugs. How much Pantani was paid when he won the Tour de France
What drug would you give to swimmers? I am thinking genetically engineered webbed hands/feet would be usefull however. So whould something like that be legal in the olympics? Oh and a torpedeo shaped head would be good too.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
You're joking right? Swimmers and bobsledders... strength and ability to maintain peak power output = anabolic steriods. Curlering, not a real sport let's be serious here. Sharpshoots, steady hands and increased endurance (at least in skeet shooting).
Come on now, try again.
What's the difference between a few million human lives? Money is power if you can get away with stealing $300,000 then do it. There is no way to tell when to draw the line. Every human being is worthless in the eyes of the goverment, so there is no way to stop anything that goes on. The only way to speak is with your wallet.
"Actions speak louder than words"
br
Maddox the only thing that matters.
"Gene injections in rats can double muscle strength and speed, researchers have found, raising concerns that the virtually undetectable technology could be used illegally to build super athletes." Sports, to me anyways, have gotten so boring, especially the Olympics. Remeber the old (Power, Gator, other)-ade commercials where sports evolved to allow for all those extra electrolites to take action; basketball had moving hoops with AI and power jumps or competitive diving w/ muliple boards. Fuck baseball with its fat, sloppy players with their crack-addictions and faulty knees, elbows, shoulders, etc... Add some tigers to the outfield and give them their metal bats. Let them physically disagree with the umpire (also pumped up) and have fastballs that could put a hole in a man. Golf could also use some help. Who knows, maybe they could even all die quicker.
-"Food is disgusting, it's what they make shit from."-
So, how close are we to getting adamantium bones?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
That's all I have to say...
Can you ping me now? Gooood! | Manhappenin.Net - Things to do
You idiots need remedial moderation classes. This isn't flamebait.
Flamebait is "This sounds like something only Nazis would use." Saying it belongs last on the list of things to give a shit about isn't flamebait, it's an opinion containing profanity.
Get a clue.
well after living in Newark NJ for the past 4 years I have to say that I think these super rats have escaped and have been roaming the city streets cause ive seen rats here bigger than cats! This is meant as a funny but somewhat true comment.
trust me bub, there nothin' but trouble.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm not sure on the relevance of this, but it is theoretically possible to breed gorrilas with humans to create a super-strong, semi-intellegent army of gorrilapeople. These gorrilapeople wouldn't be able to reproduce, so we wouldn't have to worry about them breaking off from humanity and forming thier own civilization... and they may be just what we need to fight these mutant rats :)
Wolverine could heal in _seconds_ from injuries that would be fatal to normal people... the article doesn't even imply that's what's been accomplished. It simply mentions that injury can be overcome more easily, not anything akin to high speed tissue regeneration, which is the ability that Wolverine had.
Yeah, but unless you mention a comic-book hero, there's not much chance of your article getting posted on SlashDot, ne?
That presupposes that evolution has a purpose more encompassing than getting it's target du jour laid.
"Weight loss", anyone?
(I use scare quotes here because you would almost certainly weigh more on this therapy than off it -- it's just that the weight would be in the form of attractive muscle rather than unattractive fat.)
The first to develop such a magic fat-to-muscle bullet would surely make billions.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Khan.
At this rate we're going to one day have giant mutated rats running lose on the streets. So, don't leave home without cheese, unless you want to be trampled.
---
http://spaceruckus.web1000.com
These guys are putting together a free 3D action/adventure game.
Free Wii Points
They are already building better mice.
Yow! Methinks I've been hit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're kidding, right?
Swimmers and marathon runners... I'd dope them to increase their red cell count. Assuming they're not doing it already, which would be a false assumption (bicyclists, also... the endurance sports benefit greatly from red cell doping). Something to deal with pain would also be a great help in such a sport.
Archers and sharpshooters would both benefit greatly from drugs that increased focus or counteracted the sympathetic nervous system... mild tranquilizers, for example. If what you say about bob-sledders is true, they might also benefit here... perhaps divers, also, to improve their focus (I imagine stress would be a bitch for these guys).
As for sprinters... crack cocaine? I'm only kidding inasmuch as there are surely better drugs... but seriously, how would a hard stimulant NOT help a sprinter? And, while we're at it, an analgesic (or other pain reliever) might again help greatly to push to the limits by removing the psychological effects of pain.
And almost all of these sports (other than purely precision sports like sharpshooting) would benefit greatly from the improved healing rate associated with some steroids.
What's the point of this? That there is no sport that I know of that wouldn't be aided by drug [ab]use.
is great, even addictive.
I really, truly enjoy intensity, and for very short periods of time it feels good to get your pulse rate up... but there's a downside; adrenaline clouds your thinking, and wears you out quickly. That can be a problem... a big problem. I enjoy skydiving, but if you let the fear/ground rush/adrenaline get the better of you and you don't think (ie. when you get a line-over, dual deployment, or other sticky malfunction of your main chute), it can cost you your life. In the ER, it's the same situation... except if I get wrapped up in the drama and stop thinking, it might cost somebody else their life (or their mothers/fathers/childs' life). SWAT's the same deal with different costumes... get excited and stop thinking, inadvertantly shoot a suspect, or one of your teammates. There's a reason tactical/military teams rotate point-man on patrol... it requires so much of your attention and energy that it rapidly drains you.
Crises happen, but you can't get caught up in them and "feed the rush." Also, the same rule applies to the aftermath. The best example I can think of is when we lose a child: I and most of my staff are parents with children of our own, and there's nothing, no thought more horrifying than losing one's child. It's something that runs through all our minds after we lose one from an auto accident, SIDS, etc... and the most difficult part of my job is delivering that news. I've sat and cried with parents after deaths. I've also fled with police/security running interference after grief turned to anger (some people deal with tragedy differently, and I'll just leave it at that...) But back to my main point: I/we cannot let that situation impair us in any way... because the next patient needs us, sometimes just as urgently, and the patient/ambulances never stop coming. It's for professional longevity that Post-Critical Incident Debriefing has found its way into ERs in recent years; mostly it's for the patients, but also for the staff.
As for computers, after a crushing 12 hours in the ER, or a string of shifts, I'm quite happy to go home, sit in front of a computer, and shut out the world for a few hours. I appreciate the intellectual challenge that computers offer... compared to my primary profession, they fascinate me in a way wholly different from medicine. It may come as a surprise, but much of medicine is a very inexact science, with lots of variables, most of which are out of your direct control. Computers are different... ALL the variables are yours, and the answer to your problem is always there in front of you... you just have to discipline your mind to recognize it. There's so little in medicine that you directly control... sometimes it's nice to interact with an item/environment where the rules are set, the stakes aren't quite as high, and your ability to solve a problem is limited only by your attention span.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
There's no "code," just a normal human aversion to pain.
There's something you'll find almost universally among people who have killed someone; they don't talk about it, and especially not with strangers. Even among peers, it's almost never brought up (it's usually considered incredibly rude to even ask that question). This circumspection is not because killing someone is secretly pleasurable or the initiation to some kind of exclusive club... it's because the experience is so traumatic for the person who pulled the trigger. Anyone who openly brags about people they've killed (particularly close range or knife kills) is 99% of the time either a sociopath, or full of bullshit (there are exceptions, but they are rare). You'll mostly find that guys who have done it for real don't talk about it, and that goes for military and police officers. Ever wonder why Vietnam vets, Special Forces, SEALs, etc have their own organizations and reunions? It's because, among other reasons, it's next to impossible to talk about some of those experiences with anyone who hasn't been there. The unfortunate part is that some of those folks are truly haunted by the memories, and they can benefit from sharing them (current PCID theory absolutely encourages it... pain shared is pain divided), but "shared" is the key word... empathy and validation are part of sharing, and are weighted by the listener's background... validation from someone with no clue or experience doesn't mean much to most people.
Unless they bring it up first, I'd advise never asking anyone that question; you're essentially asking them to relive a terrifying, horrific trauma. The best analogy I can make is that it's like casually asking a rape victim to describe, in detail, that experience...
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm just trying to save you from deeply offending someone in the future.
For my own part, I've had one or two close calls, but I've never shot anyone; I hope to continue that streak.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
...or if we got some cows, we could put them all in this secret place...
medicine did work out for me... it doesn't for everyone. I'll warn you now, before you actually get to medical school and accumulate the 100-200k of debt... medicine's not what you think it will be.
If you have doubts about it, go work for a bunch of different doctors... listen to them, and particularly ask them what they don't like about their jobs. Trust me, you'll get an earful. If they bring up anything that you particularly can't stand (or you're in the profession for the money), quit before you enter med school. It's a bit late to decide in your internship/residency that it isn't for you... you'll have too much debt at that point to quit. I know physicians who worked just long enough to pay off their med school loans, then quit and did something else.
As for the shooting question... it almost doesn't matter if you were justified in the shooting or not... killing another human being at close range is traumatic for virtually anyone. Even officers who were about to be killed/seriously injured have a rough time. It's not necessarily the circumstances (though those can certainly make it worse)... it's the act itself.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Christopher someone, know for once being Superman, was paralyzed in a horse riding accident. He has since had a minor but confounding recovery. One speculation on this is the severed nervers heal somewhat, but by the time they heal, the muscles have all wasted away. Christopher kept up a muscle building and preservation program and eventually had the unexpected results. (He had really good health insurance.) I wonder if an application of this genetic treatment might be to help preserve muscles of recently paralyzed people, and speculatively, allowing a later partial recovery of function.