Build Your Own Stun Gun

mariox19 writes "Wondering what to do with your disposable camera when you're finished with it? TechTV has an article describing how to reach out and zap someone with a home-made stun gun. I discovered the link via Bruce Schneier's latest Cryptogram, where Schneier half-jokingly warns not to let airport security find out about this, lest (in their 'wisdom') they ban cameras along with nail clippers."

Comments

Old news

[Anonymous Coward]

this has been known for quite a long time now...

Stun Gun in a Camera...

[whiteranger99x]

And the best part is that you could zap them and capture the moment. Now there's a Kodak moment!!

Re:Stun Gun in a Camera...

[sjwaste]

Yep. Don't worry that you took the flash out to make this thing, the person you're lighting up will provide plenty of light. :)

Re:Stun Gun in a Camera...

[SCHecklerX]

Or go to take a picture and burn your eyeball out.

Re:Stun Gun in a Camera...

[Derobrash]

I made a simple stun gun from a camera before, and it was quite cool.

I brought it into school and we modified it in the Electronics department, when we had it finished, it was melting things like milk bottle tops for breakfast with the heat generated when the two contacts collided.

We then put needles instead of lead globules on the end of the wires and put it to the test, it was all a good laugh until it was confiscated :(

Wow

[General Sherman]

I wonder if tasers are ever going to become controlled devices.

Re:Wow

[LostCluster]

As the article demonstrates, any time you can get a battery, capacitor, and some wire together, you have the resouces to make a simplistic taser.

I don't know any way they'd be able to regulate those situations, since capacitors of some type are found in nearly every electronic device. Anything that has to have a "flash" of power has a high-voltage capacitor behind it... the cammera flashbulb being the most typical example.

Re:Wow

[DrEldarion]

It would be very difficult to control things that are so easily handmade. Just pick up a few components from Radio Shack and you've got a simple stun gun. Even if they SOMEHOW restrict access to the individual components, you can cannibalize just about anything for them (like a digital camera, as this article points out).

Re:Wow

[Short Circuit]

If you think about it, a small charge is merely painful. A larger charge can be lethal.

I can easily see this becoming regulated. With classifications, depending on the charge stored.

Re:Wow

[irokitt]

You know, the capacitors in a CRT monitor contain more than enough juice to kill a man. Just something to keep in mind...

Re:Wow

[Sabalon]

Now all you people know why Radio Shack used to ask for your name, address and phone number. It's part of a government coverup to track capaciter sales.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Nono... You see, the right thing to do is wire up a capicitor inside of a ball about the size of a soft ball (big nasty mofo of a capicitor), to two metal pads on opposite sides of the ball.

When you throw the ball at your victim, in such a manner that they might catch it with both hands, they'll drop whatever they're doing, and grab the ball, creating a nice path straight through their heart. I have dozens of such capicitors, not like they're rare.

Evil.

Re:Wow

[fabs64]

I thought that capacitors were measured in farads, ie. time it takes to lose the charge afterwards, so really any capacitor can be charged to a huge voltage it's just some will zap for longer. that's my understanding of them anyway, so in fact there's no such thing as a "high voltage" capacitor

Re:Wow

[mrwonton]

Thats not true though. A high voltage capacitor is one that doesn't short when a high voltage is applied to it. Capacitors work by bringing two conductors very very close together, but insulating the space between them. If one is not meant to have a high voltage, having one will cause the conductors to come together and short, destroying the capacitor.

Re:Wow

[Short Circuit]

You. Need. Help.

On a more playful note:

In electronics class, my step-father build a neat little box. When it sat on anything, it was fine. You could have it on your hand, and nothing would happen. However, when picked up, it electrified its metal shell, startling anyone who gripped it.

And, of course, you had to get a good grip to pick it up. :)

They also did things like have an internal-to-the-school radio station by applying the signal to the power system. The transformer connecting the school to the power grid kept the signal from leaking into the grid.

Re:Wow

[JWSmythe]

At an automotive shop I used to pseudo-work at, they used to joke about taking the capacitor from old distributors, and just tossing them to newbie mechanics, teaching them not to ever catch something thrown at them. :)

The disposable camera route seems kind of silly. Most people who would attempt this should have enough parts laying around their house to build one. I believe an old PC power supply would have the required components, or it should only cost a couple bucks at Radio Shack to build one.

I like your softball idea, but it would seem to pose too much of a chance of not hitting the electrodes correctly. There's so much chance they'd catch the ball wrong, and both electrodes would hit one hand and they'd only say "Ow!" before beating the crap out of you.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Farads measure the amount of energy a capacitor can store. (Though Farads are an unrealistically large unit for most purposes.)

Voltage is the amount of voltage that the dielectric can withstand without discharging suddenly due to internal arcing.

Re:Wow

[Denium]

I don't know any way they'd be able to regulate those situations, since capacitors of some type are found in nearly every electronic device.

You'd be surprised.

Re:Wow

[some guy I know]

the capacitors in a CRT monitor contain more than enough juice to kill a man.

This is why CRTs should be repaired by women.

Re:Wow

[Mr. Piddle]

You know, the capacitors in a CRT monitor contain more than enough juice to kill a man. Just something to keep in mind...

Yes, just take a neon bulb power supply and one of those magic voltage multipliers from an old TV...mmmm, I love the smell of ozone in the morning.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, this tells us that the author catches softballs with both hands.

Re:Wow

[afidel]

I had another repair tech actually do something quite similar. He had a non-functional but non-dead power supply which he plugged in with the cover off. He then proceded to kick the caps off the PCB. When I felt the hairs on my arms stand up I asked him to do that somewher fu(7ing else. He said that he was going to throw them to the newbie tech when he walked in. Luckily the newbie got delayed on a run and didn't come back till after lunch. That sadistic bastard probably WOULD have done it.

I also had a disposable camera at my first job shock the hell out of me. The photo lab girl had a disposable that she need to get the film out of but the cover wouldn't come open correctly. Well being the macho guy I was I ripped it open in the dark box and moved the film into the processing bag. When I went to remove the disposables mechanics I no longer had the protection of the rubber gloves built into the dark box, and got one hell of a shock! The reason the camera wouldn't come open for her was that a metal piece belonging to the flash assembly had become stuck in the clamshell part of the mechanics, when I ripped it open I left quite a bit of metal attached to the flash assembly exposed.

My third big adventure with high voltage while was at university. I was working in the advanced math lab with my TA and we were reconditioning some Sun LCII workstations (board and monitor all in one units). I was adjusting the focus on the picture tube of one unit with the plastic handled but metal shafted set of tools. Well I somehow brushed the main cap on the picture tube, the spark went up one screwdriver, jumped the gap between the tools by going through me and completed the circuit through the other tool. The energy released was so intense it melted part of the screwdriver shaft and knocked my back into a wall over four feet away. When I woke up I had a quite upset TA asking me if I was OK, turns out I was unconscious for almost three minutes and he was starting to get quite worried.

Re:Wow

[blincoln]

I wonder if tasers are ever going to become controlled devices.

Just to be irritatingly picky, I'm going to point out that there's a difference between a taser and a stun gun.

"Taser" is actually an acronym for "Thomas A. Smith Electric Rifle," and is a handheld weapon which fires barbs into its target with compressed air. The barbs are tethered to the gun with wires which transmit the electricity.

A stun "gun" is a handheld device that has two short metal probs that you physically touch to the target, like a tiny cattle prod.

A true taser has the advantage of being able to be used from a distance, so if you are a police officer dealing with e.g. a crazy person swinging a sword in public and don't want to gun them down, you can try the taser first.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

As the article demonstrates, any time you can get a battery, capacitor, and some wire together, you have the resouces to make a simplistic taser.

Yeah, a 1.5v taser that'll do a whole lotta damage.

The discharge from one of these capacitors is harmful because it's coming from 300 volts. There's pretty complicated circuitry in that camera that makes the 1.5 into 300 that charges the main capacitor. You're not going to find 300 volt caps in every piece of equipment. Why? They're expensive, and only necessary in high voltage applications.

Trust me, I've disassembled scores of these things, and been shocked by them. They're all around 350 volt caps. You know the whine you hear as the camera charges up? That's the 1.5 being stepped-up to 300.

The article says some cameras have 600 volt caps... I've never found one in a disposable. Those are for studio speed lights that are run from the wall power, with a voltage tripler circuit.

Read on, people.

Re:Wow

[Dever]

"When I woke up I had a quite upset TA asking me if I was OK, turns out I was unconscious for almost three minutes and he was starting to get quite worried."

any true geek would go get a cup of coffee and check on you in 10 minutes. 3 minutes?! what a baby...

if you were still unconscious, that would be the appropriate time to submit an Ask Slashdot

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know any way they'd be able to regulate those situations, since capacitors of some type are found in nearly every electronic device.

"They" didn't have any problem whatsoever regulating the huge set of 'sharp-edged hand held metal objects' in the panic of 2001. If you can't conceive of a simple solution, expect a blanket one.

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

in highschool physics 2 a friend was taking apart a VCR power supply for some of the relays in it for a project we were working on. what i didnt see him do was charge one of the larger 120 volt capacitors up...

he came over to me later and said "here ive got something for you" and buzzed me on the hand.

it left a very nice welt.

what was even funnier was when the teacher found out he yelled at the guy not for shocking me, but more for being an idiot and charging it bare-wire to the wall (using a transformer in between).

Re:Wow

[nomel]

There is a big difference between getting hit with a true stun gun and this thing. A true stun gun generates voltages up to 20,000v!!! This one, 330v AT MOST (as in, that's what the cap is rated for). The first will possible knock you out, and at least get you to the ground, the second will just burn two holes into your skin while hurting and giving you a shock. This "homemade stun gun" is NOTHING like a real stun gun and shouldn't replace one, as it's not NEALY effective.

I used to take the caps out of disposable cameras, then make two hemispheres of tinfoil with equal sizes. I'd put one cap lead into each hemisphere, then insulate them, making a ball. Then, charge the cap, and play catch with someone! :) I used to get sooo many people that way...and everyone laughed, without any burns to their skin, which shows how innefective this "stun gun" is.

Re:Wow

[tttonyyy]

You know, the capacitors in a CRT monitor contain more than enough juice to kill a man. Just something to keep in mind...

Which capacitors are they? The only HT capacitor in monitor is the CRT itself (the inside and outside of the glass are coated with a conductive layer, and the glass forms the dielectric).
Despite the high voltage (up to 25kV), the energy stored is fairly low - it's enough to give a nasty shock but fairly unlikely to kill.

Re:Wow

[tttonyyy]

As the article demonstrates, any time you can get a battery, capacitor, and some wire together, you have the resouces to make a simplistic taser.

This is FUD. A taser requires a high voltage, so some form of step-up transformer, ladder multiplier or flyback circuit would be required. Not many pieces of consumer electronics contain such circuits.

Ever wondered why your camera makes a high-pitch whistle while your flash is charging? The camera contains an oscillator, step-up transformer and ladder network. You're hearing the oscillator as it charges the cap.

Re:Wow

[irokitt]

The filter/power supply capacitors contain a lot of juice.

I felt compelled to do some Googling. Here are some results:

"Some of the large filter capacitors commonly found in line operated equipment store a potentially lethal charge."

"If any significant voltage is found after powering off some capacitors (like the high voltage of the CRT in a TV or video monitor), it will retain a dangerous or at least painful charge for days or longer!)"

"Be very careful, since these voltages are dangerous."

I'm not giving credence to the wild claims that the capacitors in a CRT device hold their charge for months, or that you have to let a CRT sit for 72 hours before taking the cover off (you can always discharge the capacitors). But they are dangerous and their is no question that they are lethal, particularly if you hooked them up to a home-made taser.
Also realize that any electrical current-even a small one-can be lethal if it passes through the human heart.

1st post!

[Anonymous Coward]

i would hate to be blindsided by that camera...

Hmmm

[MikeXpop]

...Schneier half-jokingly warns not to let airport security find out about this, lest (in their 'wisdom') they ban cameras along with nail clippers

The first rule of Homemade-stun-gun Club is...

Re:Hmmm

[Lane.exe]

Rule 5 or so: Homemade Stun Guns are over when some idiot trys to bring one onto a plane.

Re:Hmmm

[ManFromAnotherPlace]

The first rule of Homemade-stun-gun Club is... Hot gay penguin action

WTF!?!? No, wait! I don't want to know...

Re:Hmmm

[nounderscores]

The first rule of Sig Club is we do not talk about Sig club.

Re:Hmmm

[grazzy]

You just broke the first rule you idiot

Re:Hmmm

[nounderscores]

The first rule of sig club is that we do not talk about sig club!

All battery devices?

[LostCluster]

About the only way I can think of securing against such a threat would be to ban all battery-operated devices from the plane.

This could be tolerated if some sort of PC functionality were included in seatback entertainment consoles, but since those aren't even found on every plane, I'm going to guess that this would be hell for geek air travelers.

Re:All battery devices?

[buffer-overflowed]

Rofl. There's no such thing as perfect security.

You're always in danger from the terrorists.

Of course, you're statistically more likely to die in an automobile accident, or be executed by your own government. But hey, let's just overstate the actual threat cause we're scared!

Re:All battery devices?

[UpLateDrinkingCoffee]

And just what kind of threat does a stun gun pose to deserve such a measure? I mean really, people are always going to be able to do all sorts of harm to others. Trying to attain security by micromanaging everyone's actions is just not a working solution. Sure, it's sensible to ban handguns and large kitchen knives from airlines, but battery operated devices? Nail clippers?? Long fingernails could do more damage than the clipper.

Re:All battery devices?

[no longer myself]

I agree with you, it's just not practical enforce that much control over night. But let's look at a post we might see in 5 years:

Obviously what we need are armed security gaurds maintaining a bead on the general population at all times. They should shoot first and ask questions never in order to prevent any possible terrorist action. Also, civilians should be required to wear leg-iron restraints at all times as a visible sign of their patriotism and compliance with the law. Those without said manicals would be shot because only a terrorist or potential terrorist would want to defy the law in such a way.

While we're at it, let's just make sure there's a convenient exclusion clause in their for those who have significant power and influence, because we wouldn't want to burden them with any additional responsibilities.

Of course if I were to make such a statement today, a lot of you people would think I was being a troll... But one day someone will seriously propose such an action, it will gain support, and people will actually have to come up with compelling reasons as to why this is not a good idea. Their arguments will likely be dismissed as the rants of a tinfoil-hat-wearing alarmist, but someone might listen and stave off the mandate just long enough to get voted out of office.

Re:All battery devices?

[lavaface]

I mean really, people are always going to be able to do all sorts of harm to others. Trying to attain security by micromanaging everyone's actions is just not a working solution.

Indeed. What's next? They don't allow anyone with martial arts training on a plane? Enough already!

Re:All battery devices?

[comet_11]

Long fingernails could do more damage than the clipper.

Provisions are already underway to add fingers to the banned carry-on luggage list.

Re:All battery devices?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I were in charge, the security people would take aside everyone they catch with a gun, and sell them frangible ammo.

Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they might be smart to have people put the cameras in the checked baggage, then.

In the mean time, if we all read this, now we'll know how to zap any terrorists who take over our flights (hint: use the capacitor! charge it up, then discharge it on them... not very hard)

Way back...

[grub]

In junior high electronic shop class (~1978-79) we'd charge a capacitor up, say "Hey $NAME.." and toss it to the person. Force of habit dictated the person would usually catch it and get a nice suprise.

Re:Way back...

[General Sherman]

I did the same thing, only even more low-tech. We'd take a styrofoam cup covered in tin foil, charge it with static electricity from a van de graf generator, and toss it to the person.

The trick was not to touch the metal and keep it in another non-covered cup.

Re:Way back...

[machine of god]

Psh. Junior high? We still do that now.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you really want to get burnt, try taking apart a professional camera flashgun. I have made 1 inch sparks with these...

Re:Way back...

[grub]

Woo, that's a cool idea... (although calling a vdg generator "low-tech" is kinda funny ;))

Re:Way back...

[metlin]

Actually, if you can have any kind of discharge, you can build a primitive coil gun/sten gun.

In my freshman year of EE, we used to build capacitor banks and use them to power our coil guns.

And another thing to do is to use Flyback drivers to discharge and use them to power hi-voltage stuff. Ofcourse, this knowledge came to us much later, but was useful neverthless :)

With a little bit of expertise, you can build a transistor flyback driver in a matter of minutes and do quite a lot of nasty things with it ;)

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

In junior high electronic shop class (~1978-79)

w0w ... you're old. I wasn't even born then.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

Speak up, sonny. Us 38 year olds can't hear too well, what with your rap music and carousing...

Re:Way back...

[nomadic]

I did the same thing, only even more low-tech. We'd take a styrofoam cup covered in tin foil, charge it with static electricity from a van de graf generator, and toss it to the person.

We had it even simpler in NYC public school. We'd shout someone's name, and when they turned around we'd shoot them. Good times.

Re:Way back...

[metlin]

I so agree. When I was really young (~10 years) I ripped open an el-cheapo camera and tried building something out of it. Got zapped. That knowledge came in really handy much later when I had access to bigger camera-flashguns ;-)

But if you really want to get hurt, stick your hand up any high-voltage EM generator. I've had really bad RF burn marks from my EM lab from these things.

Or, try getting near a Tesla coil wearing wool :) Those things could kill people.

Re:Way back...

[s20451]

Speak up, sonny. Us 38 year olds can't hear too well, what with your rap music and carousing...

You see, the kids, they listen to the rap music which gives them the brain damage. With their hippin' and the hoppin', and the bippin' and the boppin'.

So they don't know what the jazz ... is all about.

Re:Way back...

[jjeffries]

back in my way, we didn't have fancy-schmancy van de graf generators... we had to run a strip of rawhide through our own hair when we needed electricity... and we liked it! and when we wore through all our head hair, we'd rub it on our... well, nevermind, but we liked it!

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't forget their big pants!

Re:Way back...

[skasingularity]

Once me and some of my friends were staying in a hotel in Hilton Head, and we stopped by the local mall. We found a camera store and they gave us a box full of disposable cameras for free. We took a bunch of them apart, and in the name of science, I donated my to be shocked. We ran some copper wires from one of the flash units, and used pennies as contacts. I taped one penny to the back of my hand, and one to my palm. It wasn't working, so I pressed on the pennies, and they got close enough to run a current through my hand, making my whole arm tingle, and leaving circular burn on my palm and the back of my hand.

Yes, it did hurt.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. You're young. You weren't even born then.

Re:Way back...

[jjeffries]

It's amazing to me how many times one can proofread something, and still miss a mistake like typing "way" when you meant "day"... the mind is a funny thing, especially at this level of intoxication. :)

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you really want to get hurt, stick your hand up any high-voltage EM generator.

If you really want to get hurt, stick your thumb up any high-voltage EM generator's ass.

Really pisses 'em off.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

although calling a vdg generator "low-tech" is kinda funny

It's the tinfoil-wrapped cup that's low tech, not the vdg generator.

Hey, I wonder what would happen if you did this to somebody's tinfoil hat?

Re:Way back...

[nlindstrom]

We ran some copper wires from one of the flash units, and used pennies as contacts.

I read that as penises, and was very, very frightened for a moment.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

So.. what happens with this setup?

Re:Way back...

[zcat_NZ]

A handy tip for TV repair..

TV tubes contain enough voltage to kill, so if you're fixing a TV anywhere that there are kids around take three or four bright yellow low-leakage capacitors, wrap the leads around the body in a spiral, and charge them to a couple of hundred volts.

It doesn't matter how many times you say no, some kids just HAVE to go touching things. It won't kill them to pick up one of these. It might well save their lives in the long run..

Re:Way back...

[vadim_t]

Hey, you can perfect this and make a self-defense device out of it!

Just tape both pennies to a glove. Then you should be able to touch people and shock them instead.

Re:Way back...

[binarybum]

A handy tip for TV repair..

TV tubes contain enough voltage to kill, so if you're fixing a TV anywhere that there are kids around take three or four bright yellow low-leakage capacitors, wrap the leads around the body in a spiral, and charge them to a couple of hundred volts.

It doesn't matter how many times you say no, some kids just HAVE to go touching things. It won't kill them to pick up one of these. It might well save their lives in the long run..

I hate you dad.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

So you still have the mind and humor of a Jr. High student?

Re:Way back...

[indiechild]

Actually, if you can have any kind of discharge, you can build a primitive coil gun/sten gun.

I think a 9mm submachinegun is a little more lethal than what we're aiming for here :)

Re:Way back...

[Eternauta3k]

We had it yet simpler at prehistorical times. We'd shout someone's name and release a sabertooth tiger on him.

Re:Way back...

[Anonymous Coward]

You had sabertooth tigers!?

Could they get banned at airports?

[wheresdrew]

Sure. Different airports ban different things. On a recent trip from Seoul to Tokyo, I had a pack of Duracell AA batteries confiscated by security at Gimpo airport in Seoul. Not rechargables or anything special like that, just plain alkaline AAs, still in the package.

However, when I was leaving Japan I noticed security at Haneda had no such rules. In fact, you could buy both alkaline and lithium batteries at the shops beyond the security checkpoint there.

I've yet to get an explanation for why plain batteries are considered a security risk.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[LostCluster]

I've yet to get an explanation for why plain batteries are considered a security risk.

I think you just got it. Batteries represent stored electicity... and they can't exactly trust that the battery's voltage is really what's on the label if you don't have a device that you can show properly operates.

Sure, that's paranoid... but that's what the security people are in the business of doing.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[hypergreatthing]

They should just start banning passengers. If there's no passengers, there's no threat, right?

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[sploxx]

Yes, and that is IMHO not absurd. Recent advancements in rechargeable technology get the energy stored per mass unit into the region of chemical explosives. According to various source (google), cell phone batteries have around 165Wh/kg, approx 0.6MJ/kg. TNT has 4GJ/ton, i.e. 4MJ/kg. Now consider the mass of a common laption LiIon battery ...

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[cybermace5]

Eh...plus, what guarantee do they have that the batteries are not actually explosives to begin with. They'd have to open and test every battery to be reasonably sure (and even then, there would be ways to get around it). There are lots of ways to hide explosives in seemingly innocent objects.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[John Hasler]

> There are lots of ways to hide explosives in
> seemingly innocent objects.

It's clear, then. We must immediately ban all seemingly innocent objects.

Idiots.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[drinkypoo]

The way to get around it: Put one or two 1.5V watch batteries (wired in parallel) in the battery's can. They'll be able to run a small device just fine. If you put a little inverter circuit in there (easily done using surface mount components) you could even use it to zap the explosive when you pumped the voltage up a little bit. It seems to me like verifying that the batteries work is the least they can do.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[cybermace5]

Well, the conclusion to all this is to strip everyone at the terminal, run them through an x-ray machine (or hold them under observation for 24 hours to allow any suspicious objects to pass), and give them paper gowns to wear during the flight.

Maybe extend the observation phase to birth.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

>I've yet to get an explanation for why plain batteries are considered a security risk.

cuz they can be used to power an explosive? They might be walkman batteries to you ...

Travelled in India and had all my walkman (with batteries removed) fly in the cargo hold. It was in a padded envelop and placed in a special box for such confiscated stuff but still...

It's low-tech and there are ways around it, but I guess they have to block the most obvious ways as well.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[John Hasler]

> Maybe extend the observation phase to birth.

Isn't that in the current plan?

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, no.

I just finished reading a book called 'CyberTerror', about the (ficticous) efforts to catch a terrorist who, among other things, 'infects' the computers of Beoing. You see, all the 777 planes routinely are updated with the latest software from Boeing. But this time, the planes software causes the planes to go off course and crash..., despite all efforts bythe pilots. You see, all systems onboard are controlled by the computer- navigation, communications, etc.

So, passengers or no (heck, pilot or no!), any flying plane could be used as a weapon, if the computers controlling it are compromised.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Epistax]

I've done quite a bit of national (that is, not international) air travel, and thought I'd note what they've both done and not done, often at the same airport.

Force me to send my laptop through a scanner separately. (Or sometimes, not)
Force me to boot my laptop. (Or sometimes, not)
Force me to take off my shoes which have metal in them. (Or sometimes, not)
Pad me down. (Or sometimes, not)
Confiscate my keychain can opener. (Went on several flights before they took it away)
Check my luggage. (Or sometimes, not)

I think you get the idea. It seems completely random, regardless of the time of year or airport.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[shaitand]

Bah, getting rid of the Engines would work better. If you get rid of the engines you'll get rid of the passengers and pilots in the same swipe.

You'll also have pretty much eliminated the Terror potential since the plane can't be used as a weapon anymore and there are no hostages.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

Way back during desert storm, they had this ban in some European airports. I got burned once flying from Lisbon to London, I had a bunch of regular and rechargeable batteries, and I had to beg the security to let me keep at least the rechargeable ones.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[dbullock]

Occam's razor.

They confiscated the batteries to steal them because nobody will dare complain.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Garak]

My first time flying was the week before last. On the way to the big airport on the way home to visit my parents I went through security no checks, just had to take my electronics out of the carry on. They didn't even xray them just a swab. The a week later I go back through the small airport in my home town and they pad me down after a zipper set off the metal detector. Then they went trough all my luggage(full of audio electronics, big pipe bomb looking studio mic) questioned me 101 questions. It took around 20 min to clear security and I was already running alittle late. Well it wasn't so bad, I walk straight from security onto the plane, no waiting around.

The first time through security I could of had a gun hidden in my laptop and they didn't even xray it. They even forgot to ask the basic did you pack your own bag questions. Now I was getting onto a pretty damn small plane(almost bush plane size) going to a small town airport. So they just passed me through security. I could of easily passed a weapon onto people waiting for international flights in the post security waiting area.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[FlameboyC11]

I bet the guard just wanted some batteries, and didn't want to pay for them. Abuse of power...

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Rolo Tomasi]

Umm yeah, the problem is that those numbers mean jack shit. Ya know, if you take E=mc^2, a button off your dad's pants could vaporise a city block, the difficulty lies in releasing that energy in a very short time, which is impossible with batteries, so stop spreading this FUD.

There are more dangerous things already onboard a plane, like the booze they are serving. Spill some and throw a match. Or consider the oxygen generator canisters, which contain several kilograms of frickin' Potassium Chlorate. Try googling for that one.

Besides, what do you think would happen if someone would pull shit like tasing people with some stupid MacGyveresque stun gun? He'd end up like the guy who was beaten to death by passengers on a Mexican Airlines flight a while back.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Dr.Hair]

Heh heh... you didn't see the photos of the recent mobile phone battery explosions in Hong Kong. That's not FUD, just the cause for Consumer Council of Hong Kong press release on hazardous mobile phone batteries that may heat up to the point of causing the plastic to melt and the battery cell to explode.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Wes Janson]

As it always is, the difficulty lies in that last 10% of perfection. In this case, however, the powers-that-be are convinced the only acceptable level of sucess is 100%. Never mind the fact that it would take a theoretically infinite amount of resources to make sure planes are absolutely, positively, guaranteed safe.

And whose fault is this? Ours. The public's. For bitching and moaning and shitting our pants out over terrorism and 9/11 and "intelligence failures". Because as they say, shit happens. And no one is perfect. True wisdom is realizing and accepting that there will always be failures. Unfortunately the American public seems rather short on wisdom, unsprisingly enough.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[FireFury03]

The new Lithium Sulfur batteries can contain 350Wh/Kg (about 1.26MJ/Kg). Possibly not enough to be a weapon, but that's gotta hurt if a fault in the battery causes it to explode in your hand.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

We are no longer passengers. The correct term is self loading cargo.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[jonwil]

I remember going through Heathrow a few years back.
They didnt confiscate batteries but they did insist on running the suitcase with them inside through an x-ray scanner.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

"They should just start banning passengers. If there's no passengers, there's no threat, right?"

What did you think the aiport security measures were for, if not to prevent people flying?

Most people here in Europe are certainly doing their best to make it easier for US security. By not travelling there.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[gnu-generation-one]

"It's clear, then. We must immediately ban all seemingly innocent objects."

Indeed

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Danga]

Talk about dumb, at Chicago O'Hare Airport they will take your nail clippers and then once you're inside you can go to the gift shops and buy a pair. DUH, its a ploy to sell more nail clippers! lol...

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, batteries explode like a firecracker. I've never heard of people shorting batteries for fun, so I doubt it's very exiting. I know terrorist are trying to scare people, but they want to scare more than a few people on an airplane.

I think it's modified batteries that security fears.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

Occam's razor.

They confiscated Occam's razor? That explains a lot.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Threni]

>Talk about dumb, at Chicago O'Hare Airport they will take your nail clippers and then
>once you're inside you can go to the gift shops and buy a pair

I took an internal flight from there last year and was told they didn't have alcohol on board because of 9/11. I've yet to work out the connection.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Ben Hutchings]

Cornflakes have an energy density of 15.75 MJ/kg, according to the nutritional information on a box I have here. It seems to me that energy density is not a very relevant measurement.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Anonymous Coward]

Recently at Heathrow London I got past the Xray machine (where they take the nail clippers off you) and got into the duty free bit before the actual departure gates. And there, on sale at WHSmith was.... you're waaaay ahead of me aren't you?

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[sploxx]

Uh oh, you're comparing apples with oranges [Yes, I know the joke about apples and oranges being comparable..]

15.75MJ/kg is the *calorific value* of cornflakes. You have to add oxygen to get that energy out of them. Not so with TNT, gun powder, or batteries. The energy is readily available and there only needs to be a trigger to release it.

Cornflakes mixed with nitrate as the oxygen supply would surely be explosive. Cornflakes dust in air would also be explosive.

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[Ben Hutchings]

15.75MJ/kg is the *calorific value* of cornflakes. You have to add oxygen to get that energy out of them.

Thanks for the explanation.

Cornflakes dust in air would also be explosive.

Yes, and I seem to remember that flour in the air can be a real danger in bakeries. Maybe flour shakers should be on the list of banned items?

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[kaatochacha]

The batteries weren't banned: Customs in Korea just wanted some batteries. I had a customs agent demand my bag of cookies there once, and threatened to confiscate all my toiletries if I didn't "comply".

Re:Could they get banned at airports?

[eathan13]

So say I swallowed two lengths of wire (different metals) and left the ends sticking out of my mouth, could I use the power generated to do something nefarious...?

what ever happened to...

[Anonymous Coward]

the air-taser? You know, the one that was supposed to use two UV lasers in parallel to reach out and touch someone...

Great..

[Anonymous Coward]

all we need now is a follow up article about all the people who killed themselves while making their own stun gun.

Only weak in the knees

[Cromac]

According to the article a touch only made the person being shocked weak in the knees, and he's not a very big guy. So while this might be an interesting project and will likely be great fun for some people at frat parties it seems useless as a stun gun.

Re:Only weak in the knees

[gooberguy]

True, it wasn't as effective as a normal taser, but with a larger capacitor it could have more than enough zap to stop a person's heart. Also, the victim was shocked on his arm, not his chest or head. I have a feeling a good torso hit would be much more effective.

Re:Only weak in the knees

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the scary part, most people don't have a clue what a taser gun is in the first place, not even the authors of this camera stunt project.
The goal is not to inflict pain, that would not even stop a determined attacker, and he would end up hurting twice as bad for pissing him off.

The point is not to shock a person's heart with high voltage. The way real police grade tasers work is by sending electric pulse into the muscles, so the muscles contract and retract multiple times per second (or is it miliseconds? can't remember) then the brain freaks out and you become paralized, you fall on the floor like a drooling retard and the cops take advantage of this moment to handcuff you.

Re:Only weak in the knees

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it induces sustained contraction (called tetania or similar, not sure about the english spelling).
The effect is pretty much like excessive excercise, your muscles are too tired to function, even after the electricity is removed.
Oh, and the pain is not a bad thing, it provides short term incapacitation.
Not very good at stopping the heart, and there are better ways to do that anyway (poison, bullets, nukes...).

Woot!

[Anonymous Coward]

Something to add to my collection of things I'll never use, but I built it anyways because someone put it up on the web!

I imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

that anyone who has ever taken a disposable camera apart has experienced this-- and they'd know that it will only make an attacker madder, not "stunned".

Re:I imagine

[ottothecow]

I was sitting on a boat going around manhatten (harbor lights cruise or something) with some friends and one of them used up their disposable camera...I decided it might be a good time to demonstrate the more interesting properties of the cameras...

Needless to say, many people of all sizes shocked themselves with the camera that day. Nobody was stunned or even really hurt, but I suppose nobody tried to hold it onto their skin for a while (but its a capacitor so it shouldnt matter that much...)

Anything new?

[AirLace]

How is this anything special? I remember ripping the capacitors out of a disposable camera, plugging them into a battery and taking the setup to school when I was about ten years old.

The following Kill Bill-esque encounters with sworn playground enemies was a thrill. In fact, that's about when I got some respect for the first time from the 'in crew'.

Re:Anything new?

[Dever]

you chopped their heads off with capacitors?!

damn...

Re:All battery devices? Laptop Display Inverters

[G4from128k]

About the only way I can think of securing against such a threat would be to ban all battery-operated devices from the plane.

Yep, some backlight inverters for laptops run at over 1000V for firing a cold cathode tube.

Mr Spock

[bsDaemon]

set phasers to "stun"

Re:Mr Spock

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure that's the stun setting...

-cmh

Re:Mr Spock

[Anonymous Coward]

i read the link in your sig, anreabhloid.org

i hope you realize someday what a pig faced little racist you are. Wrap yourself in the american flag and call it patriotism if that makes you feel better about it, but even your God won't fall for that.

Don't think this is going to work to well...

[Caeda]

I suppose its possible that "some" cameras have the right hardware inside to make this. However, personal experience leads me to believe that there are cameras which will deliver just enough shock to piss someone off even more. In fixing a rather nice digital camera a while back, I just happened to touch the wrong wire and... ZAP!!! Ouch? Yes. A knockout? Definately not. Confusing, especially since the batteries werent in the thing. Put it back together, tried it, ended up charing the thing again. Took it apart again. Discovered another wrong spot to touch... ZAP! Equally painful the second time, but still no knockout... That time I ended up throwing the thing in a brief hand spasm which resulted in it landing on my leg and... oh no.. ZAP! That was number 3 and damn I hated that thing but it was still just painful and nothing like a stun gun should deliver. Heck. Not even as bad as picking up a damp laptop battery and having it discharge into you. That'll make your arm numb for hours ;)

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[Anonymous Coward]

The caps they use in cameras are called "storage capacitors" even with no batteries/power they can hold a charge. You have to discharge them to not get zapped. On larger devices you can get killed if you don't.

A note to designers the extra 2 cents you might spend including bleeder resistors is alway a good idea.

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Note to yourself: take batteries out.

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

Note to AC: Capacitors can hold a charge after they've been disconnected from the battery.

Tim

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[ModernGeek]

I've taken apart a disposable digital camera before, and did the same thing, and I had two makes where the leads were for about three weeks, it hurt pretty bad.

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post reads like a "So how did it happen?... well it happened like this..." joke. Here are some tips:

• If someone asks how something nasty happened to you don't actually show them !
  
• Avoid any contact with bandsaws, chainsaws, knifes, well anything sharp....
  

Follow this simple advice and I wish you a long, safe, incident and darwin award free life !!!! :)

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear smart guy:

If you shock yourself three times and aren't sure how it happened, perhaps you should consider the Darwin factor?

Re:Don't think this is going to work to well...

[Lifewish]

I'm not sure that the effect of touching a finger to a wire is representative. The effect will only be produced by the positive-earth potential rather than the positive-negative potential, and would be a lot less than you'd expect.

For example, when I was a kid I decided to dissect a light switch - with the mains power on! It was only after two minor shocks that I remembered to put rubber gloves on. If touching a wire could have the same effect as the main blast of the current, I wouldn't be here today :(

bah - here's a project for yah

[Anonymous Coward]

Wires? In the 21st century, who needs wires?

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583 /p roject431.html

Now off to Ebay for an excimer laser or 2, a white lab-coat, goggles and some nair...

Where's the love?

[sn0wman3030]

Did anyone else notice that the URL is http://www.techtv.com/unscrewed/IHATEYOU/story/0,2 4682,3653392,00.html ?

Re:Where's the love?

[Anonymous Coward]

See!

There is a direct connection between resentiment and weapons

Re:Where's the love?

[ivan1011001]

You ask that question about an article about building your own STUN GUNS? Egads are you mad!

Re:Where's the love?

[myowntrueself]

Indeed, it appears that this /. article may effectively be an advert for a new tech tv show premiering this week;

http://www.techtv.com/unscrewed/ihateyou/archive /

I can see the FARK now

[gravyfaucet]

"Bully breaks student's camera, low voltage hilarity ensues."

Re:I can see the FARK now

[Anonymous Coward]

I can think of atleast 58% of people who didn't stop going.

Re:I can see the FARK now

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like FARK's got a discipline problem!

Maybe that's why we beat them at football nearly half the time, huh?

Re:I can see the FARK now

[Anonymous Coward]

I submitted it with a funnier headline.

Cattle Prod

[John Hasler]

Just stop by your local farm store and pick up a cattle prod. Or order one at http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/prod.htm or one of their many competitors.

Re:Cattle Prod

[evil-osm]

Ok smart ass, now how the hell am I supposed to sneak one of these on one of our friendly airlinines huh? I mean common, look at the size of those damn things!

Sheesh!

Re:Cattle Prod

[Anonymous Coward]

You hide it in your underwear and tell them you are just happy to see her.

Tech TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Did anyone see the link for NetBus on the bottom of the page. Talk about being on top of technology

It's called a capacitor :-)

[tvh2k]

Yeah so the article really just says that the battery in the camera can charge the capacitor, and you can procedure to discharge that capacitor on a grounded person. Big deal.

This is dangerous

[sploxx]

Yeah, capacitors on slashdot once again :)
But beware that this is really dangerous. I touched a flash capacitor some time ago, 40uF@400V are not really nice. 200uF@600V and I can assure you that you will fly across the room, hopefully surviving the shock. I have several 1uF@10kV caps, and I don'T dare to charge them to > 3kV (LOUD, risk of EMI, some PC failures already because of cap discharges)

Because this is all too destructive, here is a nice modification (I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY!!):
Leave the connection to the flash tube intact. Increase the capacity of the HV cap. Add capacitors salvaged from other cameras, or as a very cheap alternative, from PC power supplies.
Check the voltage rating. Often, they're rated at 800uF@200V, if your flash light operates around 200V, connect two of them in series (+ -)(+ -).

You can get nice, very *bright* flashes with this method. Do not add to much or the flash time will explode.

Problems here:
- NEVER touch power supply caps, they can store 10x - 20x the energy of flash caps. Lethal!
- Discharge the CAPs from the power supplies before salvaging.
- Discharge the unit after use with an *isolated* gripper, better yet, a high-wattage resistor (few kOhms) hold by an *isolated* gripper.

Someone said that more that more than 10 joule are dangerous, but I think you should not set an upper bound for harmless capacitors.

PS. Someone told me that you have to drink much liquid after an electric shock. Because it removes toxic products from your body which could result in kidney failure or so. Maybe the medicine-studying /.ers know more?
But... better don't let this happen!

Re:This is dangerous

[tvh2k]

Why attach them in series? In series capacitance adds as the recipricals 1/(1/C[1] + 1/C[2]) whereas in parallel they add directly (C[1]+C[2]). In other words, capacitance adds the opposite way resistance does in simple circuits.

Re:This is dangerous

[sploxx]

Sorry, my fault. I meant: "If your flashlight operates at around 400V.". You're right, the capacity halves (for two equal caps). But the voltage rating doubles and you do not really want caps exploding in front of your face!

Re:This is dangerous

[ColdWetDog]

"PS. Someone told me that you have to drink much liquid after an electric shock. Because it removes toxic products from your body which could result in kidney failure or so. Maybe the medicine-studying /.ers know more? But... better don't let this happen

Yeah, not a bright (so to speak) idea. When a significant jolt of electricity runs through your body, it can cause destruction of lots of cells (including those that do important things like regulate heart rhythm). When the cells get fried, the explode. If they're muscle cells (and you have lots of them even if you're a ninety pound weakling), they spill a protein call myoglobin. Too much myoglobin clogs up your kidneys. This isn't a desirable outcome. Since "the solution to pollution is dilution", pushing lots of fluids can help protect the kidneys. This is typical care for an burn patient (electric or otherwise) in a hospital setting. As the old saying goes, "do not try this at home..."

Re:This is dangerous

[jafiwam]

I touched a flux capacitor and haven't been the same since 1955.

Re:This is dangerous

[merlin_jim]

Problems here:
- NEVER touch power supply caps, they can store 10x - 20x the energy of flash caps. Lethal!
- Discharge the CAPs from the power supplies before salvaging.
- Discharge the unit after use with an *isolated* gripper, better yet, a high-wattage resistor (few kOhms) hold by an *isolated* gripper.

I deal with high voltage power caps in my hobbies of railgun and coilgun design. Whenever building a prototype, I know I'm going to be monkeying around with it, and I know I'm going to get shocked accidentally...

So I take a high ohm resistor and put it across the cap leads. Put it as close to the cap as possible; if it's after you in the circuit, the high frequency nature of the cap discharge can cause it to not affect the circuit.

How big? Well the resistor here is serving two purposes; one as a bleed resistor. In that case, you want it's rating high enough that it doesn't put a strain on your charging circuitry, but still low enough to bleed power relatively quickly. From that standpoint something between about 10 KOhm and 1 MOhm should be good; caps don't have a ton of storage capacity so even a high value resistor can bleed voltage relatively quickly. And 50V, while impressive, just isn't as dangerous as 1000V... Batteries usually have an internal resistance of about 80 Ohms (the battery appears to resist the flow of electricity like an 80 Ohm resistor would, when it is in short circuit)... depending on the efficiency and design of the charging circuit, low resistances might significantly affect its performance.

Of course the other side of the equation is that the resistor is the last line of safety in case of accidental short circuit during charging; during a short circuit, the resistor will absorb some portion of the power. My trusty voltmeter says that my resistance from terminal to terminal (that is, one hand to the other) is above 1 MOhm when lightly touching the terminals, and hovers near 47 KOhm when I am.

I'd like the bleed resistor to be significantly more conductive than I am; if it's before me in the circuit and I'm lucky enough, it might save my life... I usually choose about 10 KOhm.

Oh and I'm experimenting with putting it in series with an open-core inductor. From a power perspective, an open-core inductor is a magnetic energy storage device. And for fast spikes, an inductor ends up having far more energy storage than a capacitor. By having it parallel to the capacitor but series with a large resistance, I shouldn't affect the discharge time total as I would with an inductor in series with the cap. The inductor shouldn't affect the circuit inductance enough to matter (typical circuit inductance in a coilgun might be 100-2000 mH)

But that's all beside the point. The point is: bleed resistors don't have to be held in place. For maximum safety, make them permanent...

Of course, that's assuming that your charging circuit will provide charge constantly, and isn't on some sort of timer or level sensor...

Re:This is dangerous

[Grym]

Interestingly enough, I've heard an electric shock can save your life, though.

A friend of mine who is in the Special Forces told me that when they were in the desert his friend got bitten by a very deadly snake. Were it not for the DC shock they gave him from a nearby car's battery, he would have died. He said that it works because the muscle contraction that results restricts the movement of the venom. Furthermore, the lactic acid produced as a byproduct of the extreme muscle contraction works to destroy the venom. Not sure if it's true, but it's a cool story nonetheless.

-Grym

Re:This is dangerous

[shepd]

13.2 Volts will not shock anyone without subdermal probes (not suggested). You don't feel a thing when you touch the two terminals of a 9 volt battery with your fingers, do you, even when they're wet with salt water? Now, touching a spark plug, that probably would give you a shock, but I'm not a car mechanic, so I can't/don't want to verify it.

Re:This is dangerous

[sploxx]

Your absolutely right, especially for more powerful high voltage supplies. But you have to consider that a flash capacitor charging circuit is not all that powerful. And a bleeding resistor may impact performance quite a bit. It's safer, yes.

Re:This is dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

40uF@400V

57Fu n00b! j00 15 n0 1337!

Re:This is dangerous

[NIK282000]

After reading the article i decided it would be fun to try, I opened an old ploaroid camera (FIRST MISTAKE: using a non disposible camera, larger capacitor + better quality parts) Opon seeing the cpacitor i thought it would be a good idea to discharge it just incase, I triggered the flash and it went off, apparently a triggerd flash isnt enough to completely discharde the capacitor. I was fiddling with the rest of the camera when the capacitor discharged through my screw driver, heating it to a painfull temperature and making a very loud spark. I took this as a warning and abandoned the project but not before adding some lovely blast marks to some other tools. Lesson learned: Electricity is fun, but only when used on other ppl

Old school

[Anonymous Coward]

I had one of these 12 years ago when I started college. Never zapped anyone with it, but it was sure fun to play with-- blowing holes in sheets of aluminum foil, dropping thin strands of wire across the terminals and watching them vaporize... ah, memories.

fa

[Anonymous Coward]

We're building one RIGHT NOW. I'll post pictures later.

Re:fa

[Anonymous Coward]

We regret to inform you the parent is now deceaed due to appleing the output of the camara flash circuit to his genitals!

Awe Man!

[bedammit]

Ok Im a photographer and this sucks. Sure I've know about this for years. While we are at it.. we should inform national security about several other things that can be made into dangerous items. Rubber bands (Useful to construct projectiles) Ethernet cable, shoe string, belts, power cables (good for strangling) lighters (duh) alcohol (useful with lighters) coke bottles (useful with lighters) T-shirts (useful with lighters) (If you didnt get the one above Molotov cocktails) hmm I just realized this list can go on and On.. I watched a lot of MacGyver, James Bond and Mr. Wizard BeDammit BeOS is reborn and its called Zeta www.yellowtab.com

Re:Awe Man!

[John Hasler]

Doesn't everyone getting on an airplane these days have to strip naked, undergo a body-cavity search, and don shackles and an orange jumpsuit with PASSENGER stenciled on the back?

Re:Awe Man!

[Anonymous Coward]

In first class you just get strapped to a bunk and muzzled. They take your shoes though, lest there be a bomb inside them.

Re:Awe Man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point.

You could make a jagged metal knife with pop cans by tearing them up. Might be a bit hard to get things started, but...

Hmm, at this rate they'll disallow any and all carry-on luggage, you'll get nothing but a bit of paper money (no coins, those could be used as projectiles) and you can wear the clothes on your back, but no belts or shoes of any kind. In fact, maybe the airport should issue hospital gown type dress to everyone, so that they can't rip off some fabric and make something to strangle people with...

Damned terrorists, scaring people senseless... :(

Re:Awe Man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, you may mod the parent Funny today, but wait till there is another "terror" attack in US and the same comment will be modded Informative.

Re:Awe Man!

[identity0]

Hey, be glad you get the jumpsuit! Some airlines make you strip naked and take pictures while the stewerdess makes mocking gestures at you :)

Re:Awe Man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Only if you're going to, or passing through, the US.

Re:Awe Man!

[jonwil]

For more fun, go grab an old TV set or monitor and open it up. Those things are great places to find some near high-voltage capacitors and such.

Re:Awe Man!

[jonwil]

Here in australia, we dont do that.
Instead, all airplanes have trained 12-foot saltwater crocodiles ready to "take down" any "terrorists" who cause trouble :)

Although I do wonder about this new "Crocodile Tax" that has started showing up on all my air tickets :)

Re:Awe Man!

[NEOtaku17]

Gee you don't have a thing with lighters do you ?

God this sucked.

[Anonymous Coward]

Other than jumping a nice arc the device built and tested for Martin (the stupid gangly dork) Sargent's show was pathetic. It would just piss someone off. It's not a threat just a good way to get your shit pounded. Now Seeing "the Swish" threaten Martin with it was good.

The only reason I even saw this show was everything else that was on sucked worse, otherwise "Unscrewed" is a waste of time. As I am recovering from major surgery and have a catheter up my penis for the last 2 weeks the pain of this "Unscrewed" show seemed minor. On the plus side they got all the cancer. Hoping I don't have to watch any more "Unscrewed" in the next four weeks of recovery.

Bottom line you can build a better "taser" with a Fair Radio Sales catalog. Or even better by the real thing for 20 bucks at the local (insert ethinic group name here) corner market. The thing they built was a "tickler" many of us built in grade school or Jr. High.

Slashdotting airport security

[thepixelchef]

Posting it on Slashdot ought to keep it a secret!

er, wait...

--Ben
pixelchef.net

Warning

[GarbanzoBean]

Removing battery doesn't always work. I was disassembling an Epic stylus infinity camera and did remove the battery. There was a capacitor in there though and I got quite a shock.

Re:Warning

[Anonymous Coward]

Then discharge it by contact (not to your skin) or
let it sit for a while. It'll discharge itself (depending on the capacity, though).

You'd need something a bit bigger for a stun

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of college engineering classes take apart those one time use cameras. They use the same sort of capacitor for their flash that you'll find in just about any camera. Around 300-500V with a 150 - 300uF capacitor. And since most people aren't very careful you'll hear a lot of screams of '#$%@%#$@!' in the labs. It hurts but it doesn't stun you by any means, in fact you're more likely to get beat up by someone if you use something like that.

Stun guns have a lot more power behind them and use a fairly high frequency pulse to help disable your muscles.

Ahh, memories of RadioShack...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or rather, hooking up capacitors to 12v power supplies the wrong way so they'd butst.

Hey, there was no one in the store for hours at a time - what would you do?

capcaitors aren't full...

[focitrixilous P]

I remember when my physics teacher showed us a huge capacitor bank. Chared it up and discharged around a columb to a paper clip. No warning of loudness at all, just asked someone to turn off the lights and BLAM! Dischared! It was pretty cool. If only cameras had such potential. Looks like another weapon is going to be added to my garage armory. (blow gun that shoots nail darts, potato gun, and now this.) I should probably AC this, but let the feds take them away. I can always make more. Unless nails, PVC pipe and paper are banned, that is.

Re:capcaitors aren't full...

[drinkypoo]

I have a great idea! Polyester slacks plus two wire grids in them, hooked up to a charging system for a bunch of caps in your belt. Power anything! I'll make a mint!

Re:capcaitors aren't full...

[jafuser]

I took a capacitor out of one of these disposable cameras a few months ago, and just for curiosity's sake, I used an insulated screwdriver to short it out.

The sound was equivalent to a small gun going off. It more than startled everyone in my apartment =)

Re:All battery devices? Laptop Display Inverters

[Anonymous Coward]

I burned a small (0.1mm) but deep hole in my finger once testing an inverter. The insulated tape on the back slipped of, and my finger went right on to the circuit board. It was a 400VAC (very high frequency) invertor. It felt like a blood test prick combined with a sudden electric jolt through my whole arm.

OK... And then what's next...?

[demonhold]

create your own bazooka using a bic ballpen...
personal mines using rat traps...

Re:OK... And then what's next...?

[John Hasler]

> create your own bazooka using a bic ballpen...

Or at least some model rocket engines and a heavy cardboard tube.

> personal mines using rat traps...

Plus a few shotgun shells.

Thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

The main article was slow as heck, good job I stumbled across this.

Re:Security?

[Colonel Cholling]

I don't know about you, but I would be more concerned about keeping this information from fundamental Islamic extremists than from airport security.

Yeah, a stun gun is WAY more dangerous than a boxcutter.

been there, done that, got the burnt t-shirt

[t_allardyce]

I did this when i was about 14, strapped it onto a crutch and even had an analogue multimeter on the side. Made a nice little cattle prod (inspired by waynes world). I think an evil spider was the only thing to try my patience. Yes most things can be made into a weapon, even bare hands if you have the training. Surely if you just make a separate part of the plane (toilet, bunk etc) for the pilots and ensure the bulky door remains locked at all times then you can be pretty safe. If that means loosing a few square feet of paying seating space and not letting the pilots flirt with the hostess then maybe you gotta make that sacrafice.

Re:been there, done that, got the burnt t-shirt

[kalicki]

Surely if you just make a separate part of the plane (toilet, bunk etc) for the pilots and ensure the bulky door remains locked at all times then you can be pretty safe. Another way that is 100% secure is to simply not even have a door to the cockpit. Have a seperate entrance on the outside of the plane to the cockpit area.

I wouldn't do this...

[Brianwa]

From what I've heard, the main capacitor in a normal flash camera carries enough crarge to stop your heart, even if the battery has been disconnected for quite a while. And if you do make one, make sure it never discharges through your chest (don't touch one contact with one hand and the other with your second hand)

Re:I wouldn't do this...

[tvh2k]

even if the battery has been disconnected for quite a while

Well, that depends on how long it's been disconnected for. The voltage (the main item of concern) decreases by the function V=emf*(e^(-t/RC)) where emf equals the electromotive force (a little different than the "voltage") of the battery and "e" is the inverse of the natural log function (e^x). In other words, electric potential across the terminals decreases exponentially.

Re:I wouldn't do this...

[John Hasler]

A single narrow pulse is unlikely to stop your heart.

Re:I wouldn't do this...

[greenrom]

The voltage (the main item of concern) decreases by the function V=emf*(e^(-t/RC)) ... In other words, electric potential across the terminals decreases exponentially.

But if the capacitor is disconnected then the R in your equation is going to be a huge number. The voltage will still decay exponentially, but because the time constant is so big, it can take a while. As an example, if R is 10 megaohms and C is 100 microfarads, then it will take 1000 seconds for the capacitor to discarge to 37% of its starting voltage. So in this example, if the capacitor was initially charged to 600V, then 15 minutes after it was disconnected it would still have well over 200V left to shock you with.

Re:I wouldn't do this...

[Phanatic1a]

As an example, if R is 10 megaohms and C is 100 microfarads, then it will take 1000 seconds for the capacitor to discarge to 37% of its starting voltage.

Pretty sure there's a big math error there. Time constant is equal to R*C, so that's 10E6 * 100E-6, so that's 0.00001 seconds to discharge it to 37% if you put 10 Mohms across the terminals.

They don't discharge anywhere near that fast just sitting there unconnected, because the R is effectively infinite. Resistivity of dry air is *very* high.

What you will get, if the caps are charged to a high enough voltage, is corona discharge, with the charge just leaking away into the surrounding air. To power my senio EE project railgun, I used a bank of 430V capacitors, 8000 uF each. You could charge those babies up, leave them sitting in a storeroom for a year, and they'd still have almost a full charge. A smaller cap charged to a higher voltage would leak down to nothing considerably sooner than that.

Re:I wouldn't do this...

[Phanatic1a]

Ignore that. What the fuck did *I* do?

Lesson: Never post to /. after a full evening of tossing back black sambuca.

Re:I wouldn't do this...

[greenrom]

They don't discharge anywhere near that fast just sitting there unconnected, because the R is effectively infinite. Resistivity of dry air is *very* high.

That's true if you're talking about an ideal capacitor, but real electrolytic capacitors have some internal leakage current, so R can never be infinite. Without looking at a datasheet, I'm not sure if that internal leakage is equivalent to 10Mohms, but it's probably in the ballpark.

No...don't...just don't......

[Beebos]

Do the universe a favor and do not build your own stun gun. The little sisters and pet dogs of the world will thank you.

Not so new

[Xshare]

We made these at summer camp back in Junior High, not exactly news material. Must be a slow news day. Anyways, if you get a bigger capacitor, the charge is much greater. With a regular one from most camera's, you get barely enough shock to make someone yelp.

Re:Security?

[the_mad_poster]

Yea, god forbid they ever hear of capacitors. Because, you know, there aren't any electronics in the middle east.... I'm sure nobody East of Greece has ever gotten shocked by a TV capacitor or anything. Nope, they've never heard of such things.

Actually, if you can have any kind of discharge...

[quonsar]

...you should see a doctor ASAP.

NOT a problem

[jridley]

I've gotten whacked with charged flash caps a number of times. It's about enough power to make you jump a bit and shake your hand.
The article talks about "holding it on someone for 5 seconds" - well, that won't do a damn thing; this is a capacitor, it discharges and that's it. There's a charging circuit, but it's very wimpy; it takes the circuit 5 to 10 seconds to put that much energy into a cap for a few millisecond shock.
You want a deterrent? Learn to run fast. You're going to need it, ESPECIALLY if you try to use one of these things.

Re:NOT a problem

[merlin_jim]

The article talks about "holding it on someone for 5 seconds" - well, that won't do a damn thing; this is a capacitor, it discharges and that's it. There's a charging circuit, but it's very wimpy; it takes the circuit 5 to 10 seconds to put that much energy into a cap for a few millisecond shock.
You want a deterrent? Learn to run fast. You're going to need it, ESPECIALLY if you try to use one of these things.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing reading that comment...

Of course the problem is that the capacitor can store far more power than the charging circuit can deliver at a time. What if you added several batteries in parallel? I was thinking, this thing runs off 1.5V (or thereabouts)... if you got a ton of watch batteries at 1.5V, you could build a big parallel battery to supply equivalently more power...

Just a thought :)

Talking about idiots at airports...

[grepistan]

Slightly OT, but this incident involving stupidity and airport security that happened yesterday may be familiar to some Australian readers.

Re:Talking about idiots at airports...

[netsharc]

I remember someone saying, the airport security measures after 9/11 is like closing the barn door after the horses have fled, the hijackers tried their luck with the loose security system and got away with it, and they'd know better than to try hijacking planes again, instead they'll concentrate on other ways of slipping under our noses next time around. The shoe-bomber was the nice proof against this argument. Oh well, I guess we'll spend the rest of our lives living in fear now.

Too bad the US Government's response to it all is making it worse, killing terrorists will just make martyrs out of them, some say the response should have been respect of what they want (get out of places they see as holy), but wouldn't that look so lame and a sign of giving in to their attacks. To top it all off with yet another war (this time it's to find non-existant WMD and replace a torturer, with, uhm, what now) which leave civilians suffering, that sure won't please those who hate USA.

Fun, fun. I'm sure I'll be a dead old man (I'm in my mid-twenties) before "The war on Terror" ends.

Re:Talking about idiots at airports...

[ErikZ]

Know better than hijacking planes again? Ok, that can be correct. Now, how about that shoe bomber? You don't have to take over the plane to be a terrorist.

"killing terrorists will just make martyrs out of them..."

Well, good. I find martyrs are very bad at killing people, being dead and all. Living terrorists have a much better chance at killing people.

Re:Talking about idiots at airports...

[timmy the large]

I think his point was that the shoe bomber proved he was wrong about terrorists trying to go after planes again.

As for the only good terrorist being a dead terrorist rhetoric is that it does create martyrs which often leads to more terrorist than those that were killed. The correct solution is, um actually I don't know the correct solution. Its a really tough problem.

I am pretty sure that attacking a muslim country on a false pretense wasn't the best bet, nor do I think abusing prisoners helps the situation.

About the only thing I do know is that the US is there now so the US needs to fix what they broke. I realize that isn't easy and many don't like addmidting that the US broke anything, but they were the aggressors.

Re:Talking about idiots at airports...

[ErikZ]

"As for the only good terrorist being a dead terrorist rhetoric is that it does create martyrs which often leads to more terrorist than those that were killed."

It looks to me, that this is incorrect. Without training and supplies, all you have is some pissed off guy. With human life being so cheap in third world countries, it doesn't take much to start your own terrorist organisation.

Terrorists are simply a way to attack other countries without using an army. Cheaper, and odds are that the target country won't trace it back to you, or do anything if they do.

Tasers Illigal in New South Wales Australia

[Anonymous Coward]

Tasers are illigal in the Australian State of New South Wales.

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce /act+127+1998+sch.1+0+N

Re:Tasers Illigal in New South Wales Australia

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the section in the Prohibited Weapons Act of New South Wales, from http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/fragview/inforce /act+127+1998+sch.1+0+N

(18) Any hand-held defence or anti-personnel device that is designed to administer an electric shock on contact, such as the Taser Self-Defence Weapon or an electrified brief-case, but not including any such hand-held device that may lawfully be used on an animal in accordance with the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1979.

Re:Tasers Illigal in New South Wales Australia

[grepistan]

Cattle prods aren't illigal then? I will have to keep that in mind.

Zzzzap..

[Brando_Calrisean]

I remember reading about students in a William Gibson novel (Neuromancer maybe?) fashioning stunguns out of disposable cameras and instantly knew it was possible, thinking back to the time I stuck my finger inside one.. ouch.

Man....

[ziggy_zero]

...my dad did this when he was a teenager. For some reason he never taught me how.

Anyway, what I did when I was a teenager was wire up an old shocking pen with two wires, attached it to a telescoping antenna, and made a prong at the end out of a binder clip and two paper clips. I went around pronging everybody.

Re:Man....

[kidgenius]

Those shocking pens are cool. I found one at work once. We were having contests to see how long we could hold the thing down for, and we also were playing aroudn to see how many people the shock could go through at once. Fun stuff.

Re:Man....

[Anonymous Coward]

> I went around pronging everybody.

That's code for something, isn't it?

Ive been doing this.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been doing this , Since I was about 14--im 18 now.

You take them apart, remove the GLASS, and use the two ends that the glass connect to, as your electrodes. If you bend the plastic right, it acts as a little handle.

Nothing new--

i made one too

[Anonymous Coward]

I was using a dismantled flash was fun to burn flies and stuff (it was if I recall a 350 microfards capacitor, rated 350V but was charging at 380V).

First time i charged the capacitor and didn't know what to do with it. I gave it to my dad and asked "how do you discharged that?" No fear, he put the 2 terminals flat on a fork, loud bang and there are still 2 visible marks in that fork, years after. The capacitor was like welded to the fork!

So I added some wires and bbqed flies and other insects (even made a bug killing lamp with thin wires around a UV lamp, only they weren't so keen on the uv (black light variety) i used (bastards :)

Anyway, I got another flash and wired the 2 capacitors in // (a 220micro rated 350V... maybe 380 was within specs? dunno) and used the thing across a banana with the electrods quite close together. They litterally sunk into the banana producing loads of smoke and burned flesh.

Only once I got wooshed across my arms and i fell of the chair. 380V continuous is extremely nasty. but i think the burns i saw that day were even nastier. Enough to scar someone for life.

So? Be careful (not scarful ;)

real geek protection device...

[h00dLuM]

A naked crt clipped on your belt. Touch it to $PUNK[a]

No User Servicable Parts?!?

Yeah shock the fucker with your camera, or just hit 'em with a bat.

christ...ok next I'll stab him in the eye with the broken arm of my glasses.

I made one a while back...

[n17ikh]

I made one a long time ago and decided to put it into an altoids tin. The red button allows it to charge, the toggle switch sends power to the "terminals". Charges to 330 volts in around 10 seconds, and drops about 30 volts every time you zap someone with it. The duct tape "battery holder" gets kinda flaky sometimes though...

www.n17ikh.com/images/stunner1.jpg

www.n17ikh.com/images/stunner2.jpg Brings "Curiously Strong" to a whole new level.

And you try and tell the young people

[grepistan]

of today that, and they won't believe you.
No, not a word!

You can do lots of things with a disposable flash

[pixas]

...build a larger flash for example :-).
This guy: http://www.astro.uu.se/~marcus/private/flash.html

made a homebuilt studioflash out of "40 capacitors from Kodak ULTRA disposable cameras" and some stuff from IKEA.
Not bad.

Do it Right

[fatman22]

This is another case of something that needs to be done right or not at all. The purpose of a non-lethal defensive weapon is to disable your attacker for a long enough period that you can retreat to safety. If it is inadequate its use could cost you your life. On the side, if you are just out to shock your friends for a joke, be prepared for the consequences.

Re:I think I speak for everyone here..

[nuggetman]

Will you settle for Cat Schwartz? (not safe for work/school/etc)

Explosive Capacitors

[foxalopex]

Actually, I'm surprised they didn't point out that some electrolytic capacitors if wired in backwards can literally explode! Appearently the insulator can suffer an instantaneous breakdown causing the stored charge to short in on itself. The resulting pulse of heat vapourises the insides and since a capacitor is a sealed metal can. Well you know. I had an electronics prof warn me about this after he accidently put himself in the hospital once. Yup airplane authorities will be pleased to know this.

Re:Explosive Capacitors

[merlin_jim]

I wonder if you could make an EMP cap using this effect...

When Dielectrics fail, they spot fail. A small piece cooks and becomes conductive, and the lowered resistance in that spot keeps the failure from ocurring elsewhere. Some metal to spread that discharge area out and decrease it's resistance could cause a quicker discharge, as well as serving as an EMP antenna.

Make a cap with a dielectric with a specific breakdown voltage. Make an ultrasmall charging circuit that runs off a watch battery. Make a switch that discharges a small cap backwards across the other cap to cause dielectric breakdown.

Hmmm... how do I handroll a cap again? :D

Re:Explosive Capacitors

[dmaxwell]

As a teenager, a friend and I bought an assortment of electrolytic caps and a spool of wire from The Shack. We took my benchtop 12V supply around the side of house and had great fun hooking caps up backwards to one end of a 40 foot long piece of wire. The best explosion was had from a funky looking cap that was made in Mexico. Pieces of that sucker flew everywhere. We even got a nice little fireball at the moment of detonation. We even experimented with supergluing the rubber "safety corks...specially crimped stoppers" and "safety tops...prescored metal plates" in electrolytics. Fuh-hun shit. My supply didn't have enough amperage to do the larger caps justice; they just bloated, smoked and stunk a little.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't a stun gun a device that is supposed to stun people?

You know, "stun" them to the point where they are incapacitated?

I've worked in a photo lab and those charges annoy you, not "stun" you.

It would be like loading 20 spitballs into a big straw and calling it a shotgun.

True.

[grepistan]

You bring up a good point! IANA Engineer, but I did get some (very basic!) training on these working in the security industry. Tasers work by delivering a longer jolt than a simple capacitor can produce. IIRC there is also a longer-range version of these devices that fires a small dart and deploys a wire behind it, which is then used to again deliver a much longer shock than is possible through home-made methods. Good for zapping friends/cow-orkers etc tho.

jridley also correctly states that running fast would be a prerequisite for using one of these things. Personally, I'd rather an ASP baton or almost anything over these devices in a crisis!

Re:True.

[shaitand]

"which is then used to again deliver a much longer shock than is possible through home-made methods"

It may deliver a longer shock than a capacitor can deliver. But nonetheless it's best to always remember, there is nothing a commercial product can do that cannot be made at home.

If they can build it, you can build it.

Re:Read your cryptonomicon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your batteries got 'confiscated' because they are apparently a common medium of exchange for greasing the beurocratic rails in parts of Asia. You didn't offer, so the offical helped himself.

No electricals on the testicles, please

[voiceofthewhirlwind]

And the best part is that you could zap them and capture the moment.

If you added bluetooth to the mix, you could download the image to your desktop instantly so it it becomes your next screensaver or desktop background. I'm sure the Abu Ghraib guys will love to hear their whole interrogation pipeline can be reduced to a single step.

Triggered flash Stun ATTACK!

[Neo-Rio-101]

I was taught by a bunch a school kids a really neat trick.

You set the flash on one of these fuji disposable cameras, then quickly hit the camera on the top of your head in a quick-jerk action.

What this does is it sets the flash off inside the camera without taking any film. And if you get it to work, it sure looks pretty funny... ....even if it doesn't work you'll look like a dork hitting a camera on your head.

Re:Triggered flash Stun ATTACK!

[steve's nose is blee]

Speaking as a camp counselor, each week, there would be one or two kids who knew this worked. (Works on all disposies) By the end of the week, everyone (at least all the guy campers) were doing it for fun and profit. Most annoying thing ever!

However, try this at home,
1. Gather a group of friends in a really dark room, 2. Have them all look at your face
3. Make a funny face
4. Flash yourself with the camera, instruct your friends to squeeze their eyes shut as soon as they see the flash.

It's a fun and neat effect.

Martial Arts are effective weapons

[DMUTPeregrine]

A few years (11) of training in Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do and I can do a hell of a lot more damage much faster than a flash capacitor. Me unarmed is probably deadlier than many people with a knife. What will airport security do, tie me up and tie me to my seat? Security cannot be ensured, except by extreme measures (sedating all passengers, who must travel naked, and the baggage goes on another aircraft, for example.) If the terrorists ever get good at martial arts, say goodbye to a lot more airplanes, and a lot more freedoms.

Re:Martial Arts are effective weapons

[Anonymous Coward]

Except for the fact that neither of those arts has much proven combat effectiveness. If you watch UFC or Pride or something, you'll see Muay Thai coupled with a grappling art is the most effective style.

Re:Martial Arts are effective weapons

[Moose-Alini]

Agreed with the AC. As a martial artist, I have found that in a real fight situation, Tae Kwon Do students and its lot (like american karate) tend to do much worse in actual fight situations than people with different styles or even no training at all. Tae Kwon Do tends to do not much more than make you overconfident. Take away te rules, and add real contact, and your training does very little for you. I agree that martial arts can be very good weapons....just not the ones that most people train in.

Re:Martial Arts are effective weapons

[Libraryman]

You aren't 25 yet are you?

Neal Stephenson, from Snow Crash, on being a bad-ass

Until a man is twenty-five he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial-arts monastry in China and studied real hard for ten years. If my family was wiped out by Columbian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad.

I always laugh when I hear people talk like this. I assure you that an unarmed man, no matter how he is trained does not represent a hijacking threat on an airliner anymore. Please remember that there were FOUR planes on 9/11. On one of them, armed hijackers were unable to gain controll of the plane and fly it to their target. What was the all important difference between that plane and the first three?

I'll give you a hint. The attackers were no more bad-ass on the first three planes. They were no better armed. They were simply living in a pre-9/11 world, whereas the occupants of the plane that went down without reaching its target were living in a post 9/11 world. (Thanks to the magic of in-flight phones)

It is no longer possible to do what was done on 9/11. It had already become impossible before the towers fell. Every human being who has the possibility of getting on an airplane now knows that negotiating is no longer an option. If your plane is hijacked you are already dead, so you might as well go down fighting.

If you think that you or anyone else is such a martial arts bad-ass that you can take an entire plane, your teachers owe you a refund. Too many kicks to the head have damaged your brain. Only on TV do people come at you one at a time. In real life they will just keep piling on until the weight on your chest is too much for to you take a breath and then you die.

This IS what will happen to the next person, armed or unarmed, trained or untrained, who tries to hijack a plane. No pair of nail clippers, no box knife, not even a gun or (probably) explosives will ever be enough to hijack a plane in a post 9/11 world

Sleeper agents getting hired by airlines as pilots. There is the new nightmare scenario. Pilot training is now the world's deadliest martial art.

Stun gun?

[King_of_Prussia]

I used to do this when I was five, I used it as a mousetrap. You'd have to have one huge camera to get enough power to knock a person down though...

it's more fun...

[Anonymous Coward]

...when you get zapped by the trigger coil when you have the polarities of the flash tube on backwards ...when it goes down your leg in the process ...when theres more capacitors connected in parallel torn out of old computer power supplies (they make a nice source of them, they usually have 2 470uf@200V caps, nice when used in series to make a cheap 235uf@200V cap)

pr0n book

[zogger]

my dad had one he built way back in ww2 when he was a radar tech, it was hilarious and he burned me with it good when I got older. It was a book with a hot babe on the cover, he'd hand it to you and say "check it out, hot babes" and etc. Well, any righteous red-blooded dude out there is gonna lose any amount of normal smarts he has and quick open it up.... ZAPPPP you'd get a good one.... man you felt stoopid then... HAHAHAHAHAH!

wonder if he still has that thing.....

Not only old, but...

[Awptimus Prime]

Wow, the article doesn't even show a picture of the completed device.

Re:Not only old, but...

[Drooling Iguana]

Of course. After all, they had to take apart their camera to make the thing.

ah, the camera flash

[Vilim]

I have learned plenty about the caps in camera flashes from two places, first my science fair project which tested the high endurance batteries, I opened the camera up so that I could put a larger cap on the circuit, I wound up getting shocked a few times, enough to have my legs give out (quite scary, falling and not being able to stop yourself). I also learned that caps do not fully discharge after you shock yourself once. I shocked myself, then assumed that it would be discharged, and got a lesser shock for my stupidity.

The second place that I learned about these things is at A&P (grocery store I work at), when I was a courtesy clerk (read, store bitch) I had to move the broken cameras from one bin to another, and had fun making my coworkers think I was insane by discharging the caps with a screwdriver and making all kinds of sparks.

Interestingly enough, the only thing that they save in a disposable camera is the AA batteries

Re:ah, the camera flash

[KPU]

Interestingly enough, the only thing that they save in a disposable camera is the AA batteries.
Not true or no longer true.
Kodak pays 3 cents for the camera (even if not theirs) and 5 cents for camera and AA or AAA. Every two weeks or so somebody comes to the lab I worked at. She counts the cameras and batteries, lining them up nicely, and hauls off two big bins for recycling.

Yay, more uninformed stupidness on TechTV

[Powercntrl]

After watching a video where they take apart a MuVo2 for its Hitachi Microdrive and then say the iPod mini has the same drive (correct, but the iPod's microdrive will NOT work in any digital cameras), I'm convinced TechTV's "dark tips" have become dangerously innacurate.

Don't do this. Compared to a stun gun, a photoflash capacitor stores a lower voltage, direct current high amperage charge which is delivered all at once. Yes, if delivered across the heart, it could be leathal. If delivered across flesh, it will burn you. In almost no cases will it stun you other than the surprise of getting shocked.

Real stun guns use a high frequency alternating current, VERY low amperage spark. Real stun guns are also quite cheap on eBay.

If you want to make a joke shocker from a disposable camera flash, here's a much safer method:

Get a cheap disposable camera and take it apart. Discharge the capacitor with a screwdriver. Get rid of the capacitor.

Notice the heavily insulated wire running to the center of the xenon photoflash bulb? Remove it from the photoflash bulb and attach a longer wire that will go to one of you're "shocker's" probes. Make sure the connection is well insulated.

Locate the portion of the circuit board that is shorted to activate the flash charging circuit. Usually, it's a small flexible metal "button" with plastic over it. Yank that sucker off of there and short the points on the board out with solder, or if you like, you can attach wires and add your own on/off switch.

Get a battery holder, some sort of case to put all this in, and a momentary pushbutton switch. Attach the wires from the battery holder to the circuit board, a wire from Negative to your other "shocker probe". Connect the momentary pushbutton switch to the trigger circuit (usually two peices of metal that were positioned near the shutter). Position the probes to be less than 1/8" apart. Put all this crap in a box and try it out. When you press the momentary pushbutton switch, you should get a nice spark.

Camara flash drivers are for pussies!

[Anonymous Coward]

Try rectified mains accross 220uF.
Use of only one hand is advisable
quite enlightening...

PS mains is 240V here :-)

The challenge: how long can you hang on...

ps disconnect the mains befoere touching...

Re:Just in case Bruce's site cant handle the load.

[Anonymous Coward]

On the surface it seems like a nice gesture to put up a mirror. Then doing it habitually, time and time again (even when it's obvious that the site is not in any danger of going down in the first place) is a bit suspicious. To make it even more suspicious, sites that *do* get /.ed aren't mirrored.

Helping out once in a while when it's needed is cool. Habitually helping out when it's not is just plain creepy. This person can keep trying to win new friends, but this is Slashdot, not the "pigscanfly" Show. No matter how long they keep it up, those who mod will act to discourage such behavior.

It's stilly and painfully obvious to the general audience that the "mirror dude" is screaming "look-at-me" like a 4 year old in need of attention.

Tech TV steal there work from old underground text

[SCVirus]

this is a slightly modified version of a stungun from a 25 yeah old ascii art filled BBS distributed "phile". http://scvirus6.netfirms.com/stungun.txt (sorry for the horrible html at the top but netfirms acually tries to but html ads in .txt.)

ext on SLashdot....

[Anonymous Coward]

Build your own electric chair

Materials:

• 1 dining room chair
• 1 pie tin (aluminum)
• 1000 disposiable camares
• 1 role Tape
• 1 unwilling victim

Nail clippers are not illegal....

[kidgenius]

This may be news to /.'ers, but nail clippers, nail files, hell, even knitting needles are not banned anymore. You can bring them in your carry on luggage without a problem.

Re:Nail clippers are not illegal....

[CoolGopher]

This may be news to /.'ers, but nail clippers, nail files, hell, even knitting needles are not banned anymore.

Still banned in Australia and Singapore, at least as of last week... And in Singapore you get the short guys with the big guns looking at you funny if you try it.

ShockBox

[RoadkillBunny]

Cameras seem to be useful to shock people also. In my Electronics (grade 9) class we turned a free disposable camera into a shock box as one of our projects. I did mine in the shape of a christmas present and gave it to my sister for christmas. Well, she fell for it :)

and now for the quote

[bladesjester]

It's my subway defense system

My Potato Gun

[RPI Geek]

When I built my potato guns, I didn't like how unreliable those stupid piezo-electric grill igniters were, so I decided to use a camera flash circuit (hey hey!) to build the charge. The spark points that I'd made from pieces of solder kept burning out, so I tried using a spark plug. That wasn't working either, so I ran the output through an ignition coil, and bam! It works every time now! I realized afterwards that I could have just done this without the flash circuit, but it works so well I haven't bothered to try it out.
I got the idea from an introductory electronics course at college where we modified a disposable camera to work when the lights went out, but students in the class kept zapping themselves on the capacitors. Oh the possibilities were endless! We'd hook these things up to people's doorknobs, the bathroom sinks, their chairs (never got that one to work, people weren't THAT dumb ;-)).
Flyback ransformers certainly rock.

charged capacitor + left on ground at school...

[Bon bons]

You can hear the capacitor charging before you take a picture, it's that high pitched whiny noise. If you only want to give the person a small shock charge it for a second. Back in the day we used to charge capacitors in our electrical class in high school and leave them in the hall with a simple "Please Do Not Touch" note next to it. Of course they would get curious and try and pick it up and get a jolt of hilarity. Probably get sued for doing that now-a-days though.

Re:Mr Spock -40 ot, don't bother to read.

[bsDaemon]

i know it very well... i am certain islam will kill us all, and willing to entertain the possibility of merit in the claims of some sort of international jewish banking/media conspiricy. to do what, i havn't a clue, as most international organizations, such as the un, are pretty anti-semetic. therefor, world govt. via the un is right out as a possibility.
i dislike hip-hop and fake words like "fo shizle." however, i am otherwise as inclusive as Rome and really don't "hate" anyone but the muslims, and that is out of survivle instincts. they can do whatever the hell they want to as long as it is far away from me and out of range of an AK-47.

the plans or assembled

[dncsky1530]

space age weapons

high voltage goodies

Re: *IS* a problem

[Stealth Potato]

Actually, the human body's resistance reduces the current sufficiently to provide a total discharge time of at least several seconds. I found this out firsthand while building one of these homemade tasers - I happened to touch the contacts on the capacitor (I had just been playing around making sparks, so it was fully charged :P), and I felt a strong buzzing sensation and all the muscles in my arm contracted suddenly. I then had the good sense to discharge the capacitor by bridging the contacts with a screwdriver; it still produced a very strong spark, indicating that it still posessed a fairly high charge. Later, I experimented by charging it for only about two seconds and touching it to my arm - the small charge was enough to provide several seconds of rather painful buzzing. (Yes, I AM crazy.) Judging by the strength of the shock I received from the fully charged capacitor, I would estimate that it would indeed be possible to incapacitate someone by holding one of these to their neck for a few seconds... or at the very least, make them feel really wobbly and VERY pissed off.

Stun cane?

[FleaPlus]

Does anybody know how feasible it would be to combine something like this with a walking cane, to create a stun cane? I imagine one could pack quite a few batteries and capacitors into a cane's staff. It'd be quite a way to defend yourself while still looking fashionable.

Would such a thing be illegal to carry?

Question to people with more experience

[TheOnlyCoolTim]

How many volts do you generally have to charge a capacitor with to produce a shock that will make people take notice? Assume the skin isn't wet and is of normal thickness (i.e. not the eyelids or the soles of the feet.)

Tim

Re:Question to people with more experience

[Anonymous Coward]

36-45 volts is a very minimalistic shock. Usually not even enough to pull your hand away. 100+ volts makes you jerk your hand away from whatever you touched, but usually doesn't cause burns.

Easier method yet....

[Tmack]

Take a transformer (no, the electrical kind, not the shape changing robot kind) thats got different primary and secondary windings, and a 9v battery. In its simplest form, take the two wires from one coil and attach to battery while victem holds the others, then disconnect the wires. For a better effect, connect/disconnect very quickly. A friend and I had a bunch of fun making shock boxes (back in Jr High) with this, to the point where we had a metal cube about 3" per side with a mercury switch inside, and all sides of the cube isolated and on different ends of the coils. As long as you held it level and didnt shake it you were ok, soon as you handed it to someone, they probably would trigger the mercury switch and get shocked, causing them to drop it. Another box was cardboard with bare copper wires run underneath cloth athletic tape on the outside coonected to the transformer. It had one button on top that had "DO NOT PUSH THIS BUTTON!" written around it...

Tm

Figures!

[freeze128]

Just my luck... I get the seat next to the guy with the red jumpsuit labeled TERRORIST.

Old Hat.

[dmaxwell]

Check out the Gadgeteer's Goldmine. It's a sort of Anarchist's Cookbook for the electronics hobbyist. My favorite is the "Lethal Burning Device". It is basically a reverse stun gun. Normal stunguns feel like getting hit with a sparkplug. It's high voltage and the current measured in microamps. The "burning device" featured lower voltages (low thousands or the hundreds) and milliamp scale currents. It spoke of testing the device on a raw steak. Let's see....there was also the tabletop homebuilt CO2 laser that can "cut through thin gauge steel plate". There was also the homebuilt YAG laser that could punch holes through the same.

When I used to work as a bench tech, we made our own "lethal burning device". We rented sound level meters, geiger counters, and other instruments that ran on 9-volt batteries. Any battery with less than 8.5 volts of charge unloaded was deemed too used up for another rental. We didn't throw them out. When I had about 32 of them in my drawer, we snapped them together end to end like Legos. That was good for about 250 volts. We also added a 45 volt dry cell of unknown origin that laying in a parts box. When all was said and done, there was a 300v powerpack that was capable of sourcing a fair amount of amperage....in the hands of irresposible young twentysomethings. 80v neon lamps would glow like the sun. A worn out twelve volt sampling fan became a monstrous ElectroTurbine engine that could drag small loads across the bench. You could get a one inch long spark if you brought a wire from one terminal close to the other and slowly drew it back. The stranded end of the wire would fly apart into a broom shape because the individual strands were mutally repulsed. A capacitor or two might have even died horribly.

Fun times......

Re:Security?

[merlin_jim]

Yea, god forbid they ever hear of capacitors. Because, you know, there aren't any electronics in the middle east.... I'm sure nobody East of Greece has ever gotten shocked by a TV capacitor or anything. Nope, they've never heard of such things.

You know I wonder sometimes about such things...

I mean, they obviously could have thought of this plan at any time. But they either haven't thought of it or haven't done it yet for some reason. At least some of these plans, some people believe, have some chance of success.

I will certainly admit that the success of me using a nail file to take over a whole plane is quite small. But someone somewhere apparently thought it still a good idea to prevent...

Is it that these scenarios are simply so unlikely to work that they are discarded, if thought of at all? Or could it be that some of them might just work, that as some people seem to believe if you give a terrorist the slightest opportunity he will have some mystical power to exploit it into THE WORST SITUATION POSSIBLE and then you're screwed.

In that case, why hasn't a terrorist tried this whole flash camera trick? I believe that it may be that the plan itself is so unlikely that it could only have been imagined by a person at this most paranoid, most fearful, and that therefore it does not become part of their overall planning and strategy until it has been voiced, BY US...

There was a period of time when not many people had pondered the possibility of being held hostage by a nail file. However, I'm sure with the popularity of that particular warning outside every airport terminal, that many people have now considered it. How long before the public considers or envisions a scenario that is truly devastating that is then put into action?

Tech TV should have...

[callipygian-showsyst]

Tech TV should have built and used a few of these to keep Comcast away!

The real question is....

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would anyone want to do this in the first place? Isn't there -enough- stupidity as it is without having to contribute to it?

This reminds me of...

[Anonymous Coward]

A 2,200 year old battery found in Iraq:
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/2 7/1529250&mode=thread&tid=134

Re:Mr Spock -40 ot, don't bother to read.

[Anonymous Coward]

Liam Freeman, your just a scared little 19 year old with very little grip on worldy events.

You were raised by middle to lower class parents in mid-to-southern Virginia, often considered backwards and "hillbilly" by the rest of the country. You lash out at things you have not studied and could not possibly fully comprehend. How long have you studied the Koran before recognizing that "islam will kill us all"??? College would do you some good, son.

As a devout follower of Islam, I forgive your absolutely inane prejudices and hope someday you will mature.

Peace.

I remember this from 1993

[pantycrickets]

Boy.. how times stay the same. :)

How to make a ZaPPeR GuN
By Panther Modern TNO/TBF

The zapper gun is kinda like a commercial stun gun. It is not as
powerful, and is mainly used to piss people off, not to put them down.
It will scorch skin very painfully, if applied. Total cost for it is
around $20-$25, and it is a fun thing to make if yer kinda bored.
If you don't know what a capaciter is, read no further, go find out
what one is/what one looks like, then come back. Anyway, materials
are:

Qty Description Approx price

01 Disposable Fugi-Film FLASH camera $15+TaX
01 Small-Mid radio shack projekt BoX $2-$3 or so..
02 Dry wall nails 10-20 cents
01 Radio Shack SPST Push Button $1.50
01 1 Alkeline AA battery $0.50

This is to make a fairly nice version.
For the raw, crappy version, all you
need is the camera. I won't even go
into details on making it, you can
figure it out for yerself.

Okay. Get the camera. If you want, take some pictures. ALL OF THEM,
or none of them. Cause if you don't take all, you'll ruin the film..
Now, when yer ready, first, rip off the cardboard. You'll have a plastic
box. Open it up, as well as you can. Be very careful not to damage the
circuit board, wires, flash, etc. Once it's open, discard the plastic
case, and the film. Now, looking at the circuit board, one can see
a fairly empty space. Rite in the middle of it, will be 2 small copper
"plates." Soldier your button to this place. YOu may also remove the
flash at this time, as it will be shortly rendered useless. Also, you will
notice two protrusions of copper strip. Pull 'em off, and MAKE SURE they
aren't touching when you finish, cause it will ruin the gun. Next, put
the circuit board in the project box. Drill one hole so you can see the
LED. THis will tell you when the gun is ready to FIRE! (When the LED
flashes). Next, line up approx where you want your two tips. Line up
the capaciter with this. Drill holes. Next, drill one last hole where
you want the button. Now, remove the generic AA battery in the camera,
replace it with your hi-quality Alkeline AA battery. Now, stick the nails
in, and soldier them via wires to the two capaciter leads. Seal them in
place with either expoxy or hot glue. Now, wire up your button, and stik
the LED in the hole you made for it. CLose up the box. Your gun is made..
Just push the button, holding down for apporx 2 seconds until the lite
flashs, and touch whatever you want to SHOCK. This gun is semi-lame, but
is also fun, and good for boredom..Have PhUn!!

Let Us List The Ways

[Anonymous Coward]

If there's a high voltage source, all that's needed is a high voltage capacitor and a suitable case.

• Laptops use high voltage for the screen backlight.
• Do handhelds use high voltage backlights also?
• Do phones with color screens use high voltage?
• Pocket TV set.

If there is a large battery, a crude high voltage device is easy to add. But rather than build a stunner circuit, it would be easier to simply transfer the circuitry from a retail stunner to a different case. I won't try to list all the consumer devices with large batteries.

Of course, we're amateurs at this. The professionals already figured out all the options. Both the professional security workers, and the prop men who get paid to create Q's gadgets. (Q's props and outtakes should be regular features on 007 DVDs...)

Re:Mr Spock -40 ot, don't bother to read.

[Anonymous Coward]

a quote attributed to you from a google seach:

does the Free State plan on eventual secession and establishment of an independent Republic outside of the union? I expect that this might be in our benefit within the next 10-15 years.

If I didn't know better, secession from the US can only be achieved violently... Ya know, its not like the US will just "give up" New Hampshire cause you and a handfull of freaks want your own country.

this would be called treasson.

For the love of god, take those american flags off your racist website- you are anything BUT patriotic you little shit.

Black on black

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey TechTV Webmaster: didn't your kindergarten teacher tell you that black-on-black is not very readable?

isnt this old news?

[micker]

I pulled this phile off a chicagoland area bbs in 1993 or so...

simple solution

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a much simpler explanation: greed. All the things confiscated go somewhere...

Besides, the security is not about preventing things getting on the plane so much as about making people feel good about air travel. I know a person who took a de-militarized hand grenade through "security" in carry on luggage and another who, through the combination of a spill and a shortage of time to clean up before the flight, went undetected through a security point that was supposed to detect explosives while covered in a mixture of oxidizers and fuel dust.

The security people know that they are ineffective, but have to make a pretense thereof. The practice of taking items serves both the purpose of making there presence felt and lining pockets with a few goodies.

wack-a-flash

[Anonymous Coward]

Wacking the camera works with the mechanisim in Fugi cameras ( 2 long felxible strips of copper that wnen pushed together trigger the flash), but not on the Kodak disposables that I have seen. ( Kodak uses the shutter to reach across 2 contacts so no chance of flash without opening the shutter.)

Old idea

[divine_13]

Did i see that one in McGyver last week?
>.

Midgets

[arfuni]

I've got a pile of disposable cameras lying around. The next midget or child that messes with me is going to get a nasty surprise.

Fun pastimes in Calculus class?

[sniper86]

See that pic of the two dots off tech tv? Yeah i did that to my friend during class, he didnt find it too amusing. Actually the device was in a small pvc tube made up of disposable camera parts, originally was a red strobe from the "neuralizers in MiB" - later turned it into a prodding toy *evil grin*

It stands to reason...

[Bill_Royle]

It stands to reason that these TechTV folks are developing stun guns as negotiation tools for two of those 80 jobs in LA. I'd bet they'd do nearly anything if they could use it on a few G4 execs...

been there done that

[Anonymous Coward]

me and my buddies where doing this in high school, not building the guns mind you, just using the flash and the contacts to shock each other in some sadistic fashion, damn we were stupid.

or you could

[arpy]

build yourself a paparazzi costume with those disposable cameras (there's still the potential to get zapped though)

Old "potato-masher" strobe

[PicoTera]

I guess I could build a reasonably good stun gun from my 1960's camera strobe light.

For REAL instructions,

[TonyZahn]

Check out this book:
Build Your Own Laser, Phaser, Ion Ray Gun and Other Working Space Age Projects
ISBN: 0830606041

I've had a copy of this laying around the house for years and it's reeally cool. Plans for everything from laser communication devices to ultrasonic pain generators, and any other weird thing you can think of. Some of the plans are starting to get a little dated (I think the book is probably 10+ years old), but good stuff anyway.

Re:Mr Spock -40 ot, don't bother to read.

[bsDaemon]

then i guess you don't know better. Besides, I love the Commonwealth of Virginia too much to leave it for any extended period of time for any other place but Ireland, my 2nd home.

4000v

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had a LOT of fun with those neat cameras, just cut the capasitor out of the camera, hold it in place while you charge it, and leave it lying around somewhere and wait untill someone picks it up.. just give it or throw it to/at someone..

if you really want to get them use the flash thing, and you will get around 4.000v

Re:Mr Spock -40 ot, don't bother to read.

[bsDaemon]

You're a devout Muslim. I am a devout Roman(Irish) Catholic. We both think we are right. We must both think the other is wrong. Either one of us is right (and I think I am) or neither of us is right(a good possibility).
Personally, I doubt St. Michael or whichever "angel" it was would be hanging around in a cave talking to arabs, when allegedly God loves the Jews, and Arabs hate the Jews. I put angel in quotes because I also doubt that in addition to talking to a bastard son of Abraham, even if the Jews reject Christ thereby sealing their fate to witness the never-ending disfavour of God and the wickedness in the hearts of men, that this "angel" would be of God when the arabs, prior to this, were all about the necronomicon and dijins and other such dark and evil spirits.
This is the basis for my ascertion that Islam is a cover for satanism. The fact that it has been traditionally antagonistic at best with the the western world constatntly drawing us into conflict, is a good indicator that if the protestant ascertion that Revelations is /yet/ to happen (Catholic doctrine is that, like Genesis which is but a poem on creation, Revelations is a poem on events in the Empire at the time), an "armegeddon" is going to be fought probably against Islam and not "demon" armies.
I am sorry, but studying your holy book would do me little good unless you expect it to brainwash me into accepting your religion as truth. It has no cultural influence on me, being not a muslim, not knowing any muslims, et cetera, and therefor I cannot study it with an "independent" mind as I could the hebrew bible. I know some jews. Plus, Judiasm bled into Christianity (Celtic Paganism bled into it culturally for me, too, being Irish).
I am not "racist." Muslim isn't a race. I went to my high school prom with an Arab Christian. Her mother was born in Jordan. This is essentially a theological debate, only there are those on both sides who "know damned well" that they are correct, and those still that are willing to kill over it. I am willing to kill in defense of my self, family, friends, property, and way of life. Bin Laden &co are willing to kill to destroy it all. Would I be willing to preemptivly kill? If the Pope granted another Crusade, I guess I would have to. However, I am not joining the army to go and take care of a theological issue without the blessing of the head of the church.
As to your other points:
I was born in New York, on Long Island, to a fairly aristocratic family there of Anglo-Irish origin. Pierce was the name. You may have heard of the President in our closet. My mother was senior management in a Japanese brokerage firm until she married me dad (an airline captain), got pregant with me, and quit. She went to Princeton, as did her father, his father having gone to Harvard. My father's father was born here, his father having been a major in the cavalry, fought in the indian wars, and been comondant of the citidel durring ww1. I live near williamsburg, yorktown, and jamestown, just accross the river from york town, and a stone's throw from them all. This is often concidered the birthplace of the nation. Frankly, I couldn't care less what the rest of the country thinks of Virginia, any more than I care what people in the Chezk Republic think of America as a whole. I've been to college. I took a term out. I am going back for studying Political Science and Classics. I am dedicated to the Republican principles of Rome. I want a seat in the state legislature, and to be a prosecutor. I would like some day to be attorney general of the commonwealth of virginia. I believe in rule of law, equality of protection afforded to defendents, et cetera. I also believe in victims rights, firm and even justice, et cetera. I would never prosecute a "possesion" type firearms charge because the law being broken would in and of itself be illegal due to the 2nd amendment, plus the state constitution. I believe in the 10th, 2nd, 9th, and 1st amendments in that order. The rest are superfelous because the federal government shouldn't have enough laws to ever prosecute someone.

pffft...you use a camera?

[lachlan76]

If you want a home made stun gun, try getting the electronics from the laser rangefinder in an M1A1. That would HURT!!! Of course, just looking at the strobe light would be almost as bad.

Lasers...is there anything they can't do

Re:pffft...you use a camera?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

What? You don't have an M1A1 laser range finder laying around in the junk box of your electronics shop? What kind of hacker are you?

OMFG, I did this 6 years ago, old news...

[Anonymous Coward]

There are actually 2 ways to make the stun gun: 1. a very mild shock from the leads that trigger the flash, or 2. a very powerful charge from leads connected directly to the capacitor.
I first made the mild version and shocked all my friends in high school. Good fun

Re:Awe Man! ***NSFW****

[CowboyNick]

No, they have to fly naked.

Ug...this could get scarry with the slasdot crowd...

Re:True

[grepistan]

If they can build it, we can build it and zap them with it :)

But seriously, I wasn't suggesting that it isn't possible to produce an effective home-made taser, merely that this particular project isn't quite as nasty as some commercial products out there.

Stun Guns in Planes?????

[newpath4com]

What an interesting thought. Let's see. All the passengers are sitting; all the terrorists are STANDING... hhmmm. Seems like a nice cross-grid opportunity there... Between the aisle-seats too, about pistachio level. You've read another free idea from newpath4.com . Everyone see my solution to perpetual motion yet? http://www.newpath4.com/theTempleofDoomandPerpetua lMotion.htm (w/no empty spaces hehehehehe) We could call it the Tholian Anti-Terrorist Web. Nothing like a Bat Web either eh? Sort of a freeze-the-terrorist solution.

Re:Stun Guns in Planes?????

[newpath4com]

Hey, I've got a Tom Terrific Idea! Let's all send that idea to the Office of HOMELAND SECURITY. Yeah, something to do on a Monday, brighten their day kind of activity for /.'ers.

Re:Stun Guns in Planes?????

[newpath4com]

Ever'body be sure and spell my name right; it's www.newpath4.com . hehehe Been writing so long I've fergot my real name... I want royalties, and a Caddy, and 10 million dollars cash too. Or at least a date with the babe in the 3rd row!

Been there, done that.

[billcopc]

I remember being taught this very thing by my good buddy the electronics geek, when I was EIGHT!

Though we didn't use it on people, we just liked to stick it against metallic things and leave burn streaks =) In my case it wasn't a constant buzzing thing, it was just a flash discharge so it would let off a gigantic blast every 2-3 seconds. Still damned cool for 3rd grader :)

I've done this to myself :(

[morton2002]

Okay, let's calm down... I've done this already, and accidentally discharged the capacitor through myself. It hurts and will really piss someone off if you catch them unawares, but it surely won't stun them.

My dogs figured this out years ago.

[highermath]

A few years back, my ex and I returned home form a night on the town to discover that our dogs had had a fun night on their own.

Among the detritus on the kitchen floor was a mangled instant camera. I started to give the dogs one of those stearn lectures that is oh-so-effective and picked up the camera, knowing that they would be overcome with guilt at the sight of it in my hand.

Next thing I new, I was airborn. I came to rest sitting on the floor with my back against the stove. The dogs, slackjawed, looked at me, then turned to look at each other in amazement. I can only imagine their doggie thoughts...