Slashdot Mirror
India Debating Manned Space Flight
alphakappa writes "India's moon mission and other space programs have been covered before on Slashdot. India is now debating sending a manned space mission and has acknowledged it's technological preparedness to do so in the next 6-7 years if given the go-ahead. The issues being debated before starting work on the mission include cost-benefit and other space priorities. (These missions also play host to international experiments) What does the general slashdot crowd think of these space plans?"
With Hundreds of Indians attached to the spacecraft in anyways they can fit in hanging off the edges blasing into space?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
why does it interest us? Because it is India? What about China, Canadian and other groups wanting to go to space?
Iraq wanting to go to space? That would be interesting.
I'm sure our own government will decide that we should outsource NASA to india because it's cheaper. Forget american jobs and pride, this is the all mighty dollar.
I vote that we outsource the government to India.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Excellent. Now Nasa will have someone they can outsource to who will lose less spacecraft and personnel.
I would almost expect a similar competitive announcement from Pakistan in the next few days and a debate over a launch site in Kashmir. In other news NASA has planned to outsource its scientists from India due to cheaper labor costs!
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
There a few imbalances in the world that need to be sorted out and space is one of them. The more the merrier.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Of course being an Indian and having worked with ISRO I feel strongly about it. The space is definitely the next frontier. So far India has done incredible projects related to weather, remote sensing, etc. It's definitely time to venture into this. And this is not just showing technological superiority (and I definitely will see more posts on NASA outsorcing) but that's the proud thing that India can launch vehicles in space at much much lower costs. Putting this in perspective helps in going through further projects like star wars (when US is already thinking about making it a reality). Besides India also faces competition from its neighbor China in space frontiers.
Any offsite expainsion of the human race is welcome. We can't continue to depend of the Earth for everything.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
They manage to fit the American ego in there, so I don't see why not.
liqbase
a recent guardian weekly article states that it is not considered worth the estimated US$ 2 billion it would cost to put a man on the moon.
...vividly encapsulates that post-Watergate/pre-punk/coked-up moment when you could trust no one, least of all yourself.
and it is a future of hordes of Indian 'cab-drivers' piloting the equivalent of SpaceShip One back and forth between earth and orbit .... not to mention they will be the first to open a 'Kwik-e-mart' aboard the ISS. Thank you, please come again!
In view of the problems we've had with the shuttle, I think the more countries that can send people into orbit and retrieve them, the better. We should make available to India and China our docking adapter plans and technical assistance, so all spacecraft can dock to a common interface.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
I bet they do it about 25% of the price.
Although they'll have to outsource to Americans that used to work at NASA
NASA: "Hello? This is Gutmar."
INDIA: "Yeah, 'Gutmar', your real name is something like 'David' or 'Paul' isn't it? Damned Americans taking our jobs."
NASA: "My Friend, I cannot tell you where I am. It is not our policy My Friend."
With Brazil, Several Private groups, China, and India all now shooting for space it would hopefully put some pressure on our space spending which has dropped off considerably since the end of the cold war.
Perhaps if we convinced there was oil on the moon there would be more intrest but I belive the current compeition will help. It's bad enough our engineers are being squeezed out by cheap alternatives in other countries but losing out on our space program could have profound results elsewhere in our economy. We'll go from being a tech leader to a tech backwater. Were already there with our network infrastructure, were getting there with our engineering based workforces and high tech jobs going overseas.
Worse if you look at things you may notice that our society and economic structure may eventually destroy our country. With inflation on nearly everything it's becoming nearly impossible to compete with other countries. sure you can compare their living conditions vs ours but does everything here have to be so damned expensive? When I was born the average house sold for 55,000 dollars. Today you're lucky to see them in the 80's and the average is 250,000 where I live worse in some other areas. What justifies all that price jumping?
Worse is we have a president that went from a 5 trillion dollar surplus to hitting a 8 trillion dollar deficit. Where the hell did we spend all that money. IIRC those iraq spending bills were in the billions per year but looking at the deficit it's obvious that the money is going somewhere else unknown to the american public. Who are we paying and for what?
Why didn't they call the possessive of it "zwyx" so that more people can make the difference?
For India, this actually has a lot of benefits.
.. and pharmaceuticals in zero G environment without having to pay for expensive robotic equipment ..and yes lives on the ground will be saved by the economic and social benefits of being able to do this kind of research.
Ironically the USA at this point doesnt have the same benefit return on manned spaceflight that India has.
1) Commercial satellite contracts will be easier to get for a variety of reasons and insurance of those launches cost less as well
2) it will encourage indian kids to get into science
3) Reduce dependency on imported foreign technology by developing local talent in engineering and also the extensive IT etc. other support systems needed. Depending on imports is fine, but you need to have knowledge in case there is a loss for some reason.
4) Having a missile program is good for defense (sorry but its true given the way the world is, with all the whacko rogue states running around)
5) Be able to hook up with the ISS and carry out experiments in semiconductors (crystal growth)
Too bad all the nations can't get into an agreement, if there was a single space program for the whole world, it'd be both easier to swallow from the economical point of view and would be good from a scientific point of view, instead of reinventing the wheel scientists could focus on the real problems.
As long as India is concerned, it's a bit harsh to spend bilions of dollars to send ppl into space, when so many in India are starving etc. However the problem is well beyond my comprehension, I bet that if they actually did spend the money just to buy some food, next ppl would be starving again, if however they spend on research, with some luck they will develop technological means to overcome poverty.
What bothers me most with developing countries is the fact that despite spreading diseases, high mortality, poverty, bad living conditions, the law (as in China) there is still growth in population. I won't have a child unless I can secure his future up until University at least, they just don't care...
What with the US government abandoning any real pretense of not militarizing space, I doubt there will be any real outsourcing, but we might get to see an honest to god space battle in our lifetimes (if you're young) and India and China really get into this.
The more countries we have going to space the less chance there is of our own space program stagnating. Competition will keep our Congress people's attention. Even if they would rather put the resources into another payraise for themselves or Halliburton, they will have to think about the stigma of the US losing its place as the world leader in space on their watch.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
"As long as India is concerned, it's a bit harsh to spend bilions of dollars to send ppl into space, when so many in India are starving etc. However the problem is well beyond my comprehension, I bet that if they actually did spend the money just to buy some food, next ppl would be starving again, if however they spend on research, with some luck they will develop technological means to overcome poverty."
What I was thinking the other day was to have a governmental construction force, similar to the army, to build cities. Anyone who wants to volunteer for work will be given work to build a city. Houses/schools/places of buisness would be made that otherwise would not have been made, and not with a plan.
Make a governmental food program too, but it doesn't have to be tasty, just really cheap food thats nutritional. Most people wouldn't want to eat it except those who are starving.
With food and shelter taken care of, people wouldn't be in trouble and can spend their time on an education and bettering society themself.
God spoke to me.
I would be more impressed if they could feed the millions of poor in the Indian sub-continent. Sure, a manned space shot by India would be impressive, but it matters very little to the man on the streets of Bombay who has to beg in order to feed his family.
Ed Almos
Budapest, Hungary
The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. - Tacitus, 56-120 A.D.
India of course has a segment of their population that is tech-savvy, but that does not mean the rest of the country is doing well. They have about one billion mouths to feed over there and exploitation of space ought to be one of their last concerns.
That being said, they have an ocean on their border and it seems a much more worthy opportunity that would lead to being able to adequately take care of their population by exploiting that, and developing science that is marine-based, as opposed to space based.
http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/india_statist
pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
There is a market for cheap space flight. Some of the X-Prize competitors said that they would continue development because there are tourists willing to pay big bucks to get into space. The trick is to be able to do it cheaply enough.
I absolutely think India should go for it. Their focus should be on doing it cheaply not just on doing it for the sake of doing it.
if india did that nothing would work. I have my resources. if you go to http://www.freewebs.com/identitychicken/ (which is a very reliable site btw), it gives DETAILED information on why this is bull. go check it out. you'll be impressed. Im a brain surgan, so I know a lot about this stuff. They people who are doing this, have no idea what their doing. Why would they do that? They dont even have adaquite technology and brains to get the job done depending on how you look at the situation (btw when I look at it thats what I think). Again, heres the site, and feel free to comment on any untrue information posted there. http://www.freewebs.com/identitychicken/
india fixes the horrendous problems with poverty, sanitation and education they have before shooting people in space.
on the other hand, a curry powered rocket could be cool
On a pure geek/technical and humanitarian level, I'm all for manned space flight. More the better. More chance to explore, more chance to get off of the earth, more chance for humanity to survive, and more chance for us to turn our attention to something worthwhile. Plus, of course, cool technical benefits.
However, it seems to me a lot of countries are jumping into the space race, and I'm concerned about conflicts, territoriality, and inappropriate militarization. It seems it's getting awful crowded up there pretty quick.
This is an area I'm not as informed as I'd like to be, and I wonder if people know:
1) How many countries have made successful space flight and what they've done.
2) What plans they have for the future.
3) What treaties exist concerning space flight.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
Other than the "neato" factor? I'd think, after Hubble, and the (still going) mars rovers, that we'd be able to do neater things with unmanned space flights, and we would have to worry less about things like food, water, and air.
Not trying to be a killjoy, I'm just curious.
ceci n'est pas un sig.
Hopefully they'll outsource some jobs to America.
Its just my opinion that the more countries we have on a quest for knowledge, the better.
... just saying.
After all, the more countries who can build spacecraft the better when the aliens come invading...
I'm tired of all this talk I here about out-sorcerer-ing this and out-sorcerer-ing that. Are our own witches, warlocks and wizards not good enough? Do the incantations of home-grown covens no longer work? Is even "Charmed" to be produced in another country? I can't take it anymore !
"I'm frankly sick of all the damned jingoism and nationalist fever in the red states" ...whereas there's none of that in the red state of China? No self delusion and jingoism in China? None at all?
...that the Aloo Gobi food pouch tastes excellent!
...given some of the poverty in India, one cannot help but agree. Why a manned mission? It's been proved over and over again that robotic missions can produce similar data to a manned mission, but with far lower cost. If India truly wanted to do this for science, why not a robotic mission? ...but presumably, there is some nationalist pride here as well. However, I do applaud their efforts to develop technology...
Confined Space + Vindaloo Farts = Unpleasant Voyage.
Sorry, this is a government project. Every attempt to decrease costs results in their doubling. You'll have to adjust your figures somewhat, but in the end it shouldn't be significant (as governments caluculate things).
... more easily controlled.
Since it's a government project, only the highest quality will be acceptable. These jobs must be outsourced to the People's Rebublic of China, where quality is
In response, the Germany will attack Poland and the French will surrender to Belgium.
sigs, as if you care.
hahaha mod parent up
Manned spaceflight has already been done 30+ years ago. The technology is there to do it. What China and India are doing is simply re-inventing the wheel.
Ok its good for a country to have their own facilities from which they can launch satellites etc, but shouldn't we have a broader planet-wide space program ? Countries around the world should be collaborating in order to achieve the next big thing. Not just go at it by themselves in order to boost national pride.
My 2 cents.
A million monkeys and this is the best sig they could come up with...
I think this is a great development also.
Making sure that the vastness of space does not end up W.A.S.P. is very important.
Very little of the Earth's population is white, even fewer of any religon at all, yet nearly all astronauts have come from this group. (Tokenism notwithstanding).
The greater variety of people to enter space, the greater amount to survive any threatening situation. I say, Go India
Imagine, Canadians in space. What a crazy idea.
Imagine if they put Canadian made parts on the shuttle or ISS.
It's not even entered as a consideration in our culture, but I'm just waiting for someone to escalate the space race by sending people out on one-way, yes, suicide missions. Sooner or later, it's bound to happen. We could make Mars no problem, if only we didn't have to deal with a return trip.
Venugopal:OH DAMMIT, you don' bring chicken tikka with you Apu???
Apu:OH very sorry, Venu! I no bring with me!
Venugopal:OH my goodness!! what will we ever do??? turn this damn ship around and go get some!!!
Apu:But it cost too much money for fuel! No can go back Venu!
Venugopal:DAMMIT DAMMIT!! I am Venugopal!! i want chicken tikka dammit!! You shouldnt be astronaught Apu! You go back to driving CAB!!
Apu:At least I don' work at Kwik-e-Mart!!
What do you mean redundant. He only told the joke once.
Is the point to say "we've been to do moon", or do they plan on doing something worthwhile while they are there?
We know quite a bit about the moon alrady, do we know enough to begin to be able to colonize it? I would like to say yes. We know about the moon. We may not know about our technology's ability to sustain us there, so they better be going with that in mind.
We know we can get there, and they've got near 45 years technology on NASA. I would consider just getting there a waste of India's resources.
You call it excessive, I call it ambitious.
Do you USA:ians have a mcdonalds "restaurant" and coke-machines aboard the ISS?
Sheesh
Some people.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I for one don't quite welcome our new space-overlords. I mean, great for India, I have nothing against them. But I can just see it now, corporations outsourcing space exploration to India because it is cheaper.
Some things just should be done by those interested in them, even if it is more expensive. Exploration is one of them. But only time will tell I suppose.
The only hitch is that they dont' have a visa to enter space. :) If they do, odds are that is that the Gujus(Gujaratis) will have populated most of space with space motels in 7-8 years!
(speaking as one has to do visa submission for wife for every fucking country we have to go to) If India is so advanced why is indian citizenship worth shite? Gah.
sri
I'm sick of that kind of reasoning. I'm pretty sure there are poor people in the US. Why don't you feed these people instead of paying $20M to hollywood stars, other astronomical sums to NBA/NFL players, and so on?
Do you honestly believe the US makes better use of its money?
But how would you handle this if you were writing a script for the New New Addams Family and had to refer to the hat belonging to Cousin It?
Will developing things like solid rocket booster technology be somewhat applicable to development of long-range missiles?
I know that some of the hubbub surrounding Loral's technology used in Chinese satellite launches was because of the supposition that it would enhance PRC's ability to lob nukes over longer distances.
Of course, since Pakistan is so close, I don't know how much of an impetus there is towards long-range missiles in India.
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Great! Another industry lost to outsourcing!
"There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum."
- Sir Arthur C. Clarke
DAMNIT!! I Can'd buy visa!!! I spent all my DAMN money on squishies!!! Can I still go to space??
They give the maiden voyage a good thumbs up!
Then Don't Ask the Question.
If the leaders of India have any respect for their people, then how could anything else but going into space matter?
I would think they should sort out their damn poverty problems before they go and do something as expensive as putting people in space
How many Indians lives is it worth for the prestige of getting into space.
My Portfolio
I am sick of such messages which regularly appear on the topic of some technological development in the developing nations. And these messages get moderated as +5 Insightful.
If I were to use the same argument, then US should spend a little less on defence and bring the number of people below povery line to zero.
It is sad the uber-rich and media/academic/financial elites running the US have shut down the US economy to the point the US hasn't been able to take advantage of technologies that were developed here.
I suspect it will take something like another sputnik to turn that around. These plans on the part of India isn't really another Sputnik-but eventually we'll see something like that.
Right now, there is the image that only large countries can do space. However, when I can easily imagine some highly profitable industries get developed in space-and then major commercial powers like Taiwan and Singapore get into the act.
Why? America didn't.
...the better, as far as I'm concerned. I'd love to be able to see my children (don't have any yet) or grandchildren take off-world vacations (or permanent residences) like people now-a-days take a jaunt down to the Carribean and such. And then thing that will push that is a completely global interest in space and it's exploration. Unfortunately though, I'm not a One World Government supporter, so it may be a bit difficult to have both.
No. You can send them to the planet Marklar if you have spaceships!
:-)
I hope the US is the first to Mars, I'm frankly sick of all the damned "USA sucks" mentality that comes out of the blue states. Please USA, stick it to the liberals and be #1 once again.
There are over 1 billion reasons not to go.
The money should be spent on agricultural research and improved infrastructure.
The average annual income in India is $450.
Being an Indian, I feel strongly about it as well.
We need squishy for long journey! we give thanks for Apu for donation! Since squishies take up so much room we no have enough fuel to reach orbit.
Your comment is ignorant.
You can can toss all the money you want and it will not fix the situation and possibly make it worse. The issue isn't the squalor they live in, for some of those people they don't see it as squalor. Many live as those who lived before them and it is by OUR standards that their living standards are not acceptable. You cannot buy them a new lifestyle. You cannot pay them to think and act differently.
Sure spend some money, but also realize that the national pride will go a lot further for many Indians with a successful space program. It allows them to dismiss people who constantly call India "3rd world". Too many people see that country as "3rd world" while ignoring all they accomplished.
Why do people mostly complain about DEMOCRATIC countries that do this but give a pass to China who not only throws a ton of money into their space race, their military, and such and at the same time likes to whack 5000+ of thier own people?
India is progressing nicely, I don't think they need our Western standards to intefer with a job they are doing.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
That interesting stories like this are degraded to anti-American propaganda and the hateful jackasses who post garbage like the parent are modded Insightful?
Attention mods! Put down the crack pipe before picking up the mouse.
where do they call for tech support, and will they be able to understand them?
When India and China are on the moon, the U.S. and Japan will have robotized space and have humans on Mars. When India or China is on Mars, the U.S. will have spacecraft travelling to Alpha Centauri.
So here's a big Bronx cheer to you!8~(!)
Hopefully things like the Chinese and Indians planning manned missions will give the western world the kick in the ass it needs to start spending decent amounts of money on space. Otherwise, these 'developing' nations will have prime permanent bases, reaping the resources of the solar system, and having populations spread throughout the system. Meanwhile, western civilization stagnates back here on little old Earth because they were too worried about having a few astronauts die despite the fact they volunteered knowing the risks.
They should outsource their space program to Boeing.
"What labor deficit?"
I am actually quite sick of people branding people about whom they hardly know anything even in jest. Just as there are blues and reds in the US, there are a variety of people in India and equating India = turban is just advertising one's ignorance to the world.
How would it be if one would say America = "duh"?
I find it slightly disturbing that India is considering manned spaceflight at this point. I think there are other areas in that country that the money would be better spent on. India is developing at race pace, but there's still a lot of poverty.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Then there are gonna be people writing it as "zw'yx", "zwy'x", or "zwax".
The more Indian engineers in space, the less there will be back home stealing our jobs!!!
(Because some are too think headed to have a sense of humor, I AM KIDDING!)
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
The issue isn't the squalor they live in, for some of those people they don't see it as squalor. Many live as those who lived before them and it is by OUR standards that their living standards are not acceptable
Your comment may apply to many rural villages where a simple yet poor life has continued for generations. However, there is also real squalor as well. Overpopulation combined with poor sanitation and rampant disease plague the sprawling slums of bombay, calcutta, etc. About 150 million people live in slums in India, and it hasn't always been like this. Bombay alone has over 4 million,/a>. That's why organizations like this one exist.
... the next astronauts that get there will be in need of a corner shop and a good chicken tikka masala!
....that India has about a billion poor, illiterate and starving people -- not to mention an ancient infrastructure and horrible pollution -- I think the Indians can think of a few million BETTER ideas to waste money on. This is asinine.
I've been there and seen the country, so I know what I am talking about.
...but shouldn't taming outerspace be a project somewhere beloew taming one's own country on the old priority list? Starvation? Crime? Hello?
Sooner or later India will probably be a world power. I'd rather them be known for spending money on science and space exploration than other things like war...
damn it, can't you screen for it's/its usage on the main posts at least? it's no good to mis-educate millions of people a day.
In contrast, on an Indian ICBM and here the open cab is difficult to maintain, and changing tires is simply impossible.
Too bad pointing this out is modded down as a troll here on slashdot.
... not ... upset ... slashdot groupthink.
Must
How would it be if one would say America = "duh"?
To the rest fo the world, that statement seems very correct. You re-elected the same leader that brought economic decay and needless war.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
The Race for Space was an expensive bugger, but it was also a time of great innovation.
I welcome the Chinese, and the Indians, and the Japanese. Go Arianespace! Whose idea was it to replace two lumbering bureaucracies with a single humongous multinational lumbering bureaucracy?
Next we'll be outsourcing jobs to SPACE!
"It's a wonderful idea. But it doesn't work." -- Tad Danielewski
What can they learn from it that we haven't already learned? They should concentrate on getting rich so they can buy the fruits of that research from us, rather than recapitulating what we've already done. This is a classic "build or buy" decision, and for them, their money is best spent reinvested in their own markets.
Nice to see so many techies falling back to racist sterotypes of Indians or worse (the person who made the comments about it being a shame that there were no visa restrictions to prevent Indians in space - I'm talking to you).
How would people react if instead we were talking about Africans swinging from tree branches into space?
I know I will get the typical idiot responses banging on about freedom of speech, but you know what? I don't care.... racism is racism is racism....
Not only that but how in the HELL can those people pilot a spacecraft when they can't even drive a cab without crashing!!
Is it really necessary for a developing country to spend the huge amount of money into the space program? And is it the right time to do it? Poverty is still a problem, and many children don't have the chance to go to school. Shouldn't the money be spent on improving education and helping the poor first?
The money could also be spent on developing better infrastructures such as transportation, power and water supply. There are places with frequent power outage, and there are places without tap water. There are heavy pollution problems in major cities as well.
The researches from the space program could be beneficial, however there are many other types of researches with more direct impacts. How about research for agricultural advances, to feed more hungry people? How about research for prevention and care for SARS? We might be able to find the answers in space, but with the same amount of money and effort, I believe we can make better progress researching on Earth now.
With recent advances in computers and robotics, we don't have to send people into space. We can remotely control robots to do the dirty and risky tasks. Except for specific research of biological effect on the human body, there is no benefit of putting a real person into the spacecraft. It is much cheaper and more effective to have unmanned space mission, I suspect manned missions are just for the sake of national pride.
The world can be a better place if we leave nationalism behind, and think collectively in terms on the whole mankind.
if I were india and China I would focus on getting people sent up into some rotating space station and then just blast people off in hundreds of thousands of cheap two to four man capsules...
they could all be shot at a location on the moon or mars or where with parts to build some sustainable structures -- or perhaps even the capsules/pods/transports are made to be reusable as housing...
I would figure if you can get the basics down and just make tons of transports the statistical odds are in your favor to have some limited BUT STILL successful attempts.
It's not like China and India don't have people that would volunteer to get shot into space to the hope of getting out of the slums / starvation they currently face and will continue to face for generations.
------------------------------
Ray Raspberry
raspberry@b3l33t.org
maybe firing people into space is their solution to Starvation... Crime... although I'm not so sure about the solution to "Hello"
------------------------------
Ray Raspberry
raspberry@b3l33t.org
Governments in space. Humpf.
Rumor has it the first Indian space shuttle will be equipped with six robotic arms.
There was more kinds of animals then you've ever seen! They'd run around free when the Earth was bein' born, but the lovliest of all was the Unicorn!
Wouldn't it be better if they could all share rocket boosters and other designs making improvements where necessary, rather than inventing everything from scratch each time.
Dude you lost get over it
That is how life works sometimes.
I think these objections are raised partly because India still receives a great deal of foreign aid.
"If they are landing on the moon," the argument runs, "why are we feeding their poor?".
The cost to launch the weight of an Indian into space is more than it would cost to feed him for a lifetime! So I guess a better way would be to dig a huge trench and just start droppin' them in and then bury them.
That is SOOO funny!! You're actually bein racist too but you pretend not to be by acting like you disagree with it! But I guess if you told n*ggers there was watermelon or BBQ chicken in space, I suppose they would manage to swing from trees into space....a n*gger will do anything for watermelon!! :-)
I mean, c'mon, you have a Slashdot OD, would it be too much to get your opinions from someplace other than a late night talk show?
What effing good would eradicating illiteracy do to India if they're ruled by the Chinese, as in Tibet? It's strawman to begin with, because the Indians are debating whether or not to put a man on the moon, unlike Kennedy, who declared we would (to one up the CCCP, among other things).
Besides, to address your silly lil' list:
dysentery : India's already got the largest first class drug industry in the world; they're not the ones who are out of anthrax and flu vaccines
literacy : They're not the ones teaching creationism (intelligent design) in school
How do you spell "NASA" in hindi?
"Hello, this is [some corp]. How may I help you?"
"Where are you located, India?"
"No sir, we are at L5"
Dang.. First they learn english and get names like ours. Second they steal half of our business.. now they want to have a manned space flight like us? Geez :P
I'm glad to see that you're taking the initiative to tell those poor ignorant Indians what they should do with their money.
What does the general slashdot crowd think of these space plans?"
Out of this world!
You can't be American.. I mean, who in the States names their kid Kilgore?
My mistake: the cost of Apollo is about the same as the projected lifetime cost of the ISS ($100 billion "modern" dollars each). Mir is quoted at costing a bit more than $4 billion for its entire operating life.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Its because the earth has already reached saturation point for qwik-e-marts.
You just got an honorary MBA. Use it for the benefit of mankind. Or at atleast 1/6000000000th thereof.
What most of the posts essentially say is : :-)
1. India is re-inventing the wheel with manned space flights.
2. India should put in money into infrastructure,starving people,poverty..
3. India is stealing american jobs.
Not 1 post(maybe 1) tries state reasons as to WHY India must be investing in Space programs at all?? Do you guys actually think that no one in the current Indian Govt or opposition must have thought that they'd rather invest in reducing poverty etc instead of Space programs?!.I am not jusifying their expenditure but just saying that there will be a good reason behind it.Besides there are specific norms as to what a developing nation needs to be.
Also there are certain things that need to be re-invented.If there was 1 mission to Mars, do you think no one else would attempt to send a probe into MARS?
And when it comes to stealing jobs, India is not stealing jobs but America is offering them jobs.If you call that stealing, ok.
Just my 2(3) cents.
Lord of the Binges.
Maybe we should outsource the USA to India to save cost. That way Walmart prices will go down 90%. Although, income for the US citizens would go down 95%. Well at least the IT industry and manufacturing would not be unemployed by themselves. I think the Indian and Chinese moon missions will cost just as much the Apollo moon missions after adjusting for false exchange rates and reduced technology cost. When will US citizens with engineering, science, and manufacturing skills have increasing incomes? I have a feeling the USA will not occupy Mars until then, and will it be too late? I.E. will China, EU, and/or India claim Mars before we can? Or will it be like the Antartica under a multi country treaty? Will it have its own government?
I'm an Indian, and
everytime I see a "technology is good" post from
people who watch "60 minutes" or some report on
CNN, I say "IGNORANT optimistic FOOL". I say
the spending by any government should be aimed at
helping the largest number of people at lowest
cost. Better roads, better water supply systems,
better schools, and a better food distribution
system will help more people than will a space
program.
Someone on here said that a successful space
program would enhance Indian national pride.
I see no pride in having to import technology,
know-how and knowledge.
Most kids in India do aim to get into science.
And most of them that do end up in science, end
up in the US or other countries. Those that ARE
left behind are insipid, uncreative people that'd
rather plagiarize stuff off of google than come
up with innovative solutions to problems.
Corruption is still a big problem in India.
And big money government projects like these are
perfect targets for the beaurecrats and ministers
to make amoral money.
GRRR. BLAH!
There has lot beeb said about India being poor. That is, I think, the biggest reason they should try to develop affodable technology at home. They need high technology to improve the lives of their people. As far as Pakistan being a fundamentalist Islamic military dictatorship is concerned. At times there have been Generals ruling. They were far from being Islamic. Currently the General is very well educated and Westranized. There is and elected parliament and the Prime Minister lived in US for decades and was a VP at CitiBank. The elected parliament is very moderate. There is hardly any evidence of anything else. Some people have wrong perception and it only there perception and a man's perception is his reality.
you scumerican fucks can't protect 2 buildings properly in NY and you wanna talk about space ? scumerica needs to stop funding nasa and start giving its firemen better training, and invest more in skyscraper architecture. what kind of a crappy design was that WTC, one fucking plane brought down each building!!! pathetic.
.... the country has any problems, shut down the space program first - yeah that's so fucking brilliant. no wonder you fucks are bleeding jobs left, right and center.
what about democracy ? you screw up elections with excuses like pregnant chads (2000) and the DieBold CEO promising to deliver Ohio to Bush (2004)!! shut down nasa and invest in the election mechanism.
or columbine - shut down nasa and invest in your own children.
now it all makes sense to me
Q: Why did WTC happen in Sep ?
A: Cos it was "fall" season.
Great idea, the more folks in space, the better. Mod all the stupid anti-indian-outsourcing jokers as flamebait and redundant, BTW. I wonder what will the Indian space mission participants be called? Cosmonauts, astronauts, taikonauts, now what?
VKh
For the sake of nationalism, U.S. did it first and Russia never went for it, but now China and India want to fake going to the moon. Does every country with a camcorder have to have a manned space program?
really will be called Apu...
Good compassionate and pragmatic thinking. But compassion and pragmatism are alien concepts to India's brahmins.
of course with a population over 1 billion in a land area just over 1/3 the size of the US, they have quite different issues than the US does.
india has roughly 25% of the population below the poverty line (compared to the US' 12%), but this is pretty good for a developing country. of course as you pointed out, much of that 25% may be subsistence farmers and/or simple villagers -- quite different from the US where such things dont really exist.
Dude you lost GET OVER IT!!!
BTW being depressed is a big part of loseing..
You are one of the rare indians I have seen here. Almost all of them seem to care not at all for the starving masses of their pitiful nation. What is it about hinduism that makes you people such heartless bastards?
Besides yours truly a raving Spider Robinson fan? Stardance, Starseed, Starmind... In space, nationality ceases to matter, and there's a *lot* more room out there than there is down here. I want to be a space colonist, and don't care what flag (if any) is painted on the ride that gets me there.
Take the 90-Day Challenge! http://rwmurker.bodybyvi.com/
Astronaut Space Food Curry and Nan... MMMMMMmmmmm
Space will become increasingly important from a strategical view over the next decade. The more genuine republics that become space powers the better.
Down with totalitarianism!
(You know who I'm talking about....)
Note, that the SRB historically ranges from 1.2-1.5M to F. Males tend to have fatal accidents during their youth more frequently than females.
So either by design or evolution more males are born than females.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
The normal sex ratio at birth is 1.05. You know not of what you bitch. The Indians, the Chinese, and the Koreans all share the same disgusting trait: SRB = 1.20. Japan, the USA, and Thailand all have an SRB of 1.05.
From whom? India has one of the largest foriegn currency reserves after Japan and China. It is self sufficient in food production and even exports a lot of it. What it does receive is loans from organizations such as World Bank or IMF for projects that pertain to infrastruture development. These are not handouts mind you. India has never defaulted on its loan obligations.
Now I'll be able to get a big gulp as soon as I finish building this rocketship.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
They want to be the first country to orbit a convenience store.
Thank you come again.
>>India is a failure because its culture is a failure
India as a civilization has been around for more than 4000 years. It should have decayed and disappeared way back if its culture was a failure. Think about it.
The country got its freedom only about 50 years back. Give it couple of decades and you will see the next big super power.
to solve their population problem.
OHHH dammiittt!! I lose another customer!! He go out doors into vacuum of space before putting space suit back on!!
This might be racist but as soon as I read this headline I pictured a 5 man space vessel with 32 Indians crammed into it....
ha ha ha ha....
India is a failure..
because its culture is a failure
Not sure what your point is here - how can anyone label *any* culture (or country ) in this world to be a failure.? !! But you do have a point in saying that it could be a waste of money.
The more countries who can get into space, the more chance there is that the people who get up there will look down and say, "Wow... That planet down there is really something special. We should take more care of it - and the race that got us up here to appreciate it."
You must think in Russian.
Perhaps Pakistan will have a stronger effect if they deliver their nukes, but somehow I doubt even that, since throwing both bombs would total to little effect!-))
India and China have large populations and plentiful nuclear weapons. Since a war would improve their standards of living, perhaps something mutual could be arranged.
We all heard the reasoning for abolishing space-exploration (particulary human-based) before, and I think the major flaw in all these 'arguments' why we shouldn't go into space is that they always set economic factors as a premise.
;-)
But, although economic viability is important to create a mass-usuage of space(travel), I fail to see why it should be the only possible motive to start exploring space. It's a pretty narrowminded, materialistic and typical capitalistic view on things. It's the same view that makes progress on medication for very rare diseases, or for diseases that are prevalent in continents that are poor, so slow: corporations can't see how they are ever going to get profit out of it, so they all turn their backs on it.
If ppl (including states) are only going to do something when they are sure of an immediate profitable return, the world has become a sad place. (And we should leave it the sooner
Arguments based on such a viewpoint fail to recognise other incentives apart from economical ones.
The reason why we shouldn't (only) rely on robots? You can explore, but you can not colonise with robots. The will to explore is deeply entrenched in the human race, but with a reason: it has survival advantages.
A species that doesn't colonise new territory and adapt, will perish. I think it's paramount that humans always keep their adventurage spirit and keep exploring and expanding, because the moment we will go "ah, let's sit back in our sofa's and let our robots/droids do it", we're basically finished, even when not being aware of it at that moment.
--- "To pee or not to pee, that is the question." ---
India can stop spending money on defence, on once america stops funding arms to countries like pakistan.
Btw, did you know that India is #1 in remote sensing ? this is as per Indian President Kalam.
Culture ? nice bait.
so long as their misfires don't land in my back yard.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
The first thing they'll do is look for a square planet so they can build a corner shop.
If this works out, it'll be great. Then the ISS crew won't have to land to stock up at a 7-11.
> India is progressing nicely, I don't think they need our Western standards to intefer with a job they are doing.
Excellent. Then India can stop needing foreign aid
too.
If they can afford to subsidize space flight, they
don't need aid from the treasuries of other
countries.
Indeed, they don't need aid from the charities
I contribute too.
Some cultures don't succeed as well as others. I wouldn't count India amongst the failures, though.
Consider the Aztecs, on the other hand. Human sacrifice, institutionalized slavery... in the end, not even their cool calendars carved in stone made the Aztec culture truly viable. In the end, the Aztecs failed miserably.
I note with sadness that the Arab culture has also passed quite a few hundred years without any notable successes.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Flamebait??
Racist Mods.
Because China, unlike India, is more than hype. There's a lot of talk coming from India, but few accomplishments vs. China.
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
Because they are cheap labor, of course! U.S. firms can't resist!
...now they're sending my job into space
Well in my opinion it wont be the same, as the indians and the chinese make the bulk of the workforce in the IT sector here in the US of A. If all the indians and chinese were to leave the silicon valley and head back home, almost all the companies would be in a dire situation as they combined make up almost 50-60% of the workforce. It will be fun to watch theem scrambling for inefficient US workers and on top of that pay them higher wages too. Secondly if these guys were to head home, it will lead to more outsourcing as they will go back and set up shops to compete with the US firms. thirdly, US will loose it tech supremacy as these guys are the ones fuelling it. Fourthly, the the amount of money these guys contribute to the US economy will be lost. hmmm.. why will anyone choose to allow something when it doesnt need that, for ex: why will US go to war against IRAQ over Afganistan, when the former didnt have any hand in 911. I guess it didnt need the war but still it chose it, because it was gaining something from it. Maybe the US people didnt gain much, but I am sure big corporations and those in the senate did. People allow things when they have a need for it.
Hi there, I'm a technician for Napier University and have just read your post from January regarding the repair to an iBook back-light. I have a student's G3 iBook with the same problem - definitely the video chip. Could you possibly give me some more info as to where you permanently pulled up the control signal of the backlight? Any help much appreciated, thanks Stanley
At the bottom of the
the aztecs culture didn't fail buddy... they were royally fucked by the spanish
Focus on your own country dipshit.