Feds Shut Down Elite Torrents

honkimon writes "Cnn Money reports, "Government agents said the onslaught included 10 search warrants and the shut down of a central Web site used to coordinate all file-sharing activity on the Elite Torrents network. That Web site, Elitetorrents.org, had a selection of copyrighted works that government officials described as virtually unlimited.""

Comments

Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[SoCalChris]

I take it those dirty terrorists were trading copies of Star Wars again?

I definately feel safer knowing that DHS is tackling major problems like downloading movies.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe they misread it as Elite Terrorists??

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Quasar1999]

If we don't protect the few people at the very top of society so that they can continue to rip off the common folk to make billions upon billions of dollars in profits, then by God, the America I know no longer exists. ( disclaimer: I'm a Canadian so I'm biased. )

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[incom]

You joke, but most people don't even blink about this misuse of terrorist fighting powers. I swear lobotomies are being covertly administered VERY frequently or something.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Morlark]

Yes, it's been said many times, both here and elsewhere, but US government agencies are getting uesd to having these 'anti-terrorist' powers, and they seem perfectly happy to apply them to situations where they really shouldn't be applied.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[gordon_schumway]

You missed the punchline, dude.

If we don't protect the few people at the very top of society so that they can continue to rip off the common folk to make billions upon billions of dollars in profits, then by God, the terrorists have already won!

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[SoCalChris]

Look at EliteTorrents.org. The big logos on the top of the page is the FBI & DHS. The article says Immigration & Customs, but the page itself has a big DHS logo on it. I doubt they would put their logo on there if they weren't involved.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[johnhennessy]

Not wanting to appear to side the RIAA and the MPAA but with the amounts of money involved its not surprising that the law is after these sites.

But you can be sure it's not because of terrorism.

How much of California's income comes from the film industry and the industry that services it.

At this stage, the movie studios are nearly nothing more than specialised banks (do I get credit for quoting Neal Stephenson !) - and with the vast sums of money involved, its not surprising that the law appears to re-act quicker.

But the law folks need a semi-genuine excuse to pursue these cases without alienating the public.

For example, if their line was "Yeah, well we need to help the movie industry backers get richer" - how many people would be taken to their cause. As a matter of spite, people would swing the other way - anything to go "get the system".

In Britain, before the motto for pursuing these sites and pirates was "to fight terrorism" it was "to fight organised crime".

In the end, it's all down to money, and in the movie business there's loads of it floating around.

Every wonder how dangerous driving in some countries can only incur a penalty of a few hundred dollars/euros (if you are really unlucky) while recording a film in a cinema (which I don't condone) can incur an _unlimited_ penalty where I come from.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Anonymous Coward]

Terrorist fighting powers - funny! You didn't read the article, did you?

It was immigration and customs, by the way, and nobody but the magoo who started this thread made any connection to terrorism. What a bunch of lemmings.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[JustOK]

ICE is just the tip of the glacier that is DHS. Its like a business unit or something.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[iminplaya]

I swear lobotomies are being covertly administered VERY frequently or something.

It's not even covert. Most people are lobotomized within 10 seconds of turning on the TV. The job won't be finished until the same thing is done with the internet. This is a tiny peek into the new world order that 99% of you voted for.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[TrappedByMyself]

Yeah, more FUD.
I really think you people take pride in your ignorance.

I say this in another post, but Immigration and Customs, which handles copyright infrigement, is part of Homeland Security.

Homeland Security was created partly to battle terrorism and partly to combine the domestic agencies into one group. This issue has nothing to do with terrorism, even though it adding the word makes it all juicy and gets everyone all riled up.

Someone broke the law, and the government did its job by shutting them down.

Please get a grip and focus on the real issues of the day.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Yokaze]

"That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves." - Kim Stanley Robinson,

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[aonaran]

Funny, Immigration and Customs must have different meanings in Canada. Here in the great white north they mean control of people coming into the country, and contol of goods coming into the country. Neither of those has anything to do with copyright law.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[bigbigbison]

The department of homeland security is the merger of soemthing like 22 seperate agencies, so terrorism isn't the only thing they are involved in -- it just makes it easy for them to call you a terrorist once they have arrested you for something else!

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Anonymous Coward]

Careful, there - you're trying to introduce a smattering of rationality here. Now, that might have been OK back when this was a place for news for nerds and stuff that matters, but now that /. is the home of news that's skewed and stuff for left-wing zealots, rationality and truth take a back seat to knee jerking and whining.

I mean, it's bad enough that you have to come in here spouting the truth, but to do it calmly and intelligently is just going to piss everyone off!

What were you thinking?

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[einhverfr]

Customs can have something to do with copyright law if you are talking about importing counterfit and/or illegally reproduced copyrighted works.

However, here we also have certain export regulations too. And I assume that this is where ICE is involved.

For example, it is illegal for a US Person to refuse to do business with an Israeli business solely because they are Israeli. OTOH, refusing to do business with Israeli businesses due to security concerns and/or human rights concerns relating to the business in question may or may not be (but IANAL, IMHO, etc). Again ICE is involved in enforcing both embargoes and antiboycott laws.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[syberanarchy]

Only half of us did. Probably less, I would not put it past the GOP to fix the election twice..

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[arose]

Large amounts of money found to be involved with goverment granted monopolies that are described as beeing virtually unlimited in time. More on this story in 70 years.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[E Galois]

At the take-down, a DHS big-wig was heard to exclaim: "Commander, tear this server apart until you've found those copyrighted files! And bring me the infringing users, I want them alive!"

To which the sysadmin replied: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a server is insignificant next to the power of the BitTorrent."

"If you only knew the power of the Dark Side. Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father. .. He joined the Department of Homeland Security!" -- Apologies to Darth Vader

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[djlowe]

>and they seem perfectly happy to apply them to situations where they really shouldn't be applied.

Oh, I don't know - I bet there are many US copyright holders terrified of BitTorrent *grin*.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[iminplaya]

Only half voted rebuplican. The other half that voted democrat effectively stated that they also approve of the present gov't and what it's doing. If you vote for either of the majors, you are voting not to change a thing. DHS, DMCA, the patriot act, the war, prohibition, etc would continue unabated. Only one percent voted against the majors.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[maxpublic]

As if using an ignoramus like Kim Stanley Robinson to define libertarianism is somehow insightful...or was this meant as a joke?

Max

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[zerbot]

Do you honestly think people would stop pirating stuff if nobody was getting rich off it? The vast majority of people who pirate just want stuff for free, they could care less about how much anybody might get paid if they were to pay for the stuff.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[johansalk]

You haven't been to a cinema lately; I have, and I was disgusted how before the movie started there was a feature that linked piracy to terrorism. I was disgusted because terrorism seems to have become the buzzword these days to justify anything, from torturing opposition leaders in middle eastern countries by dictators, to opening fire on peaceful protestors in former soviet republics, to persecuting minorities in south east asia, to assailing civil rights and liberties in the US, to even the friggin' movie industry! The word "terrorism/terrorists" has become a lousy excuse for whatever agenda you can creativeuly associate with it.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[rainman_bc]

Don't forget it's illegal to do business with Cubans unless you're in the Navy. And it makes a good place to have an army base that blatantly infringes on human rights (per Amnesty International).

Make no mistake, freedom in the US is fiction at best.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[gcalvin]

Make no mistake, freedom in the US is fiction at best.

Oh yeah? And which government agency forced you to type that?

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Sj0]

Or "I'm an idiot so I'll believe any stereotype I come into contact with"

Of course, that would make the two largest trade partners of the United States either socialist or communist. I'm so glad you guys won the cold war!

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[rainman_bc]

Oh yeah? And which government agency forced you to type that?

Uhm, I'm not from the US.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[TapeCutter]

"news that's skewed and stuff for left-wing zealots, rationality and truth take a back seat to knee jerking and whining."

Could you please post a link to any political zealot who behaves differently, I would be particularly intrested to see a rational and truthfull right-wing zealot as I belive they are extinct. If you can't do this then I suggest your post is a whining knee jerk reaction from yet another AC zealot.

What were you thinking? - I was wondering how you post could be modded insightful.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[einhverfr]

Antiboycott laws are explicitly antidemocratic. The idea is to prevent citizens from doing things which preempts the Federal Government's foreign policy. The example used to pass the laws were that US firms might join in the boycots against Israel...

Indeed according to the law, and individual in the US is NOT allowed to boycott another country. I.e. it is against the law to decide that you WILL NOT buy goods made in China! Antiboycott laws either withhold tax incentives from companies which engage in boycotts of nonembargoed nations or actually criminalize such boycotts. IANAL, as I mentioned before. Search Google and you will find some interesting government sites, however.

Similarly, it is against the law to boycott the Palestinians, or such countries as Pakistan, Russia, the EU, India, etc.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[geminidomino]

If it was, the moderators didn't get it.

*Klaxon sounds*
[Flashing Neon sign]: BIG FUCKING SHOCKER!

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[geminidomino]

It's an old game.

In the US now, it's "terrorists"
In the US in the mid-20th Century, it was"communists"
In Germany, a couple of decades earlier, it was "Jews"
In Medieval Europe, it was "Moors."
In the Roman Empire, it was "Barbarians."

(Yeah, there's some big jumps there, timewas. I wasn't going for an exhaustive list, just examples showing that this is nothing new)

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[anum]

Sorry, we will be by to liberate you as soon as we have the time :)

Thanks for waiting, your call is very important to us.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[mtenhagen]

they made a video http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/multimedia/clip00 35.avi

They forgot to put it up as a torrent so let see how many slashdotters that server can handle

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[Alex P Keaton in da]

I hope that i am not being baited- However, people don't seem to understand what the department of homeland security is. It is an amalgamation of a lot of different agencies, including ICE (immigration and Customs Enforcement) and the Coast Guard. So yes, ICE may go after Fake LV Handbags, even though they aren't a terror threat. And yes, when the Coast Guard rescues someone from a sinking pleasure boat, that is the DHS, even though saving boaters isnt fighting terrorism.
I hope that helps- I am not trying to be an ass, but I think it is important for us to understand what we comment about....
Log onto http://www.dhs.gov/ to find out about the Department of Homeland Security.... -alex

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[ABRA]

First, this has everything to do with terrorism. Sure ICE and DHS are not solely anti-terrorist entities, but fighting terrorism is part of their job. And when they are off chasing pirates in the wake of public MPAA renouncements of BitTorrent with the MPAA as a prime investigative source as evidenced by the MPAA's submission of privileged server records, DHS:ICE is not fighting terrorism. They are devoting time, manpower, and the often publicized limited budget.

Especially in the wake of the 9/11 commission's finding our greatest weakness is our borders, ICE devoting one cent to anything else has everything to do with terrorism.

And on the larger issue of the ethics of piracy, using EP3 as a case study it was both record setting at the box office and at Elitetorrent.org(they reported "creaking under the strain of SW fans"). This is one unblemished example of the totally lack of any negative casual relationship between p2p piracy and media sales. At the very least it proves the viability of coexistence. And at the very most it makes the assertion ludicrous that piracy is responsible for financial losses.

Could EP3 been even more record breaking with record breaking piracy? Possibly.

Is it ridiculous to scapegoat the worst case scenario piracy loss estimate of $950,000 on a movie that has to-date grossed $158 million instead of blaming the myriad of other detractors such as hype, the other prequels, Hayden Christensen's acting abilities, etc. ? Absolutely.

Re:Department of Homeland Security was involved?

[ABRA]

Oh, and I almost forgot. Has anyone else considered contributing to the legal defense of the 10 Elitetorrents.org admins in question? The debate we are having here over p2p piracy, mass media copyright enforcement, and intellectual property in general could and should happen in society at large. One way our government provided a venue for that debate is in the court cases of those charged with crimes surrounding these issues. Does anyone have any information on how to contact these individuals or possibly the refugee URL for Elitetorrents.org?

infinite?

[Travelsonic]

I wonder if it is possible to have a near infinite number of copyrighted works available. I think it isn't.

Re:infinite?

[chill]

I wonder if it is possible to have a near infinite number of copyrighted works available. I think it isn't.

What do you think those infinite number of monkeys are doing when not trying to bang out Shakespeare?

Re:infinite?

[pg110404]

I wonder if it is possible to have a near infinite number of copyrighted works available

Sure it is. All you need is an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of keyboards.

For that matter, why not just get hardware based random number generators to produce endless streams of chars. Sooner or later, you'll get anything from the complete works of shakespeare to instructions on how to cure cancer or instructions to legally kick out the current administration.

Oh wait, never mind. You're talking about copyrighted works available. My bad.

Re:infinite?

[Travelsonic]

Isn't that a thousand monkies working on bananas?

Re:infinite?

[wuie]

I wonder if it is possible to have a near infinite number of copyrighted works available. I think it isn't.

That statement reminds me of this wonderful gem:

"It all works because Avogadro's number is closer to infinity than to 10." - Ralph Baierlein.

Re:infinite?

[E Galois]

Infinite, eh?

Counting, and cardinality in general, is a very subtle mathematical concept, involving the creation of a 1-1 correspondence between the members of the set to be counted, and the members of the set of Natural numbers (usually denoted N). It really gets interesting when you start to try to find the cardinality of infinite sets, which, of course, are exactly those sets which can be placed into a 1-1 correspondence with a proper subset of themselves. You find you have both countable (denumerable) and uncountable (nondenumerable) infinities, where countable implies the set in question can be placed in a 1-1 correspondence with N.

And while were on the subject of orders of infinity, we might as well begin to explore Cantor's transfinite numbers (i.e the aleph series), which of course will lead to an interesting discussion of the Continuum Hypothesis...

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Episode III fragments suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." - Apologies to Obi-Wan

Re:infinite?

[Tongo]

Ask and ye shall recieve:

Infinite Monkey Simulator

Re:infinite?

[LordSnooty]

I wonder if it is possible to have a near infinite number of copyrighted works available.

No, it was "virtually" infinite, like BT is "virtually" bringing Hollywood to its knees. *checks Top 10 films, sees Sith at the top*

Re:infinite?

[Travelsonic]

Sure it is. All you need is an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of keyboards.

I seriosuly don't thimk biology would allow for monkey reproduction to occure that fast. ^_^

Re:infinite?

[scotlewis]

It's very easy, for suitably large ranges of near.

Re:infinite?

[E Galois]

Careful now, or I might just blow my Sierpinski gasket!

Re:infinite?

[GMFTatsujin]

If the number of copyrighted works is virtually infinite, then there must logically be a finite improbability of finding that work.

Therefore, for any given copyrighted file, all you need to do is figure out exactly how improbable it is to find a torrent of it, feed that number into your torrent client, dunk your network cable into a nice hot cup of tea, and hit "go."

Re:infinite?

[jack_csk]

They will be working as honeymonkeys.

Re:infinite?

[zotz]

"It is quite certainly possible if you consider sufficiently small values of infinity."

This is just a guess, but I would think that all sufficiently small values of infinity would, in fact, be imaginary numbers.

all the best,

drew

Re:infinite?

[Joel from Sydney]

What do you think those infinite number of monkeys are doing when not trying to bang out Shakespeare?

Chatting on IRC?

Re:infinite?

[TheoMurpse]

It figgers that that sumbitch Galois would try and learn us about cardinality and set theory. What's next, Mr. Smartypants? A lecture on symmetry of roots?

Re:infinite?

[Maestro4k]

What do you think those infinite number of monkeys are doing when not trying to bang out Shakespeare? Flinging infinite amounts of their own feces? Hey, that would explain a lot of the movies that come out each year!

Curses!

[funny-jack]

Dangit guys, how come I only find out about these great torrent sources after they get shut down?

Re:Curses!

[Anonymous Coward]

What made it great was that people like you didn't know about it. :)

Re:Curses!

[rackhamh]

Because you're too busy refreshing Slashdot?

Re:Curses!

[morcheeba]

... that would have been true with other P2P services, but bittorrent reversed that paradigm. Heavily trafficked bittorrents download quickly, and the ones no one is downloading die.

Re:Curses!

[vhold]

Actually he's right... If you are one of the last people to download a torrent, it's just going to sit under 1.0 forever because you had nobody to upload to.

I suspect then they'd want you to keep the tracker active on your system forever until you reached 1.0, even more lame then would be the fact that people who want to seed past 1.0 would be proportionally making it more difficult for you to achieve 1.0.

I'd say that that 1.0 rule would be fair if it said you shouldn't quit out of a torrent when there are more peers then seeds and you aren't yet at 1.0.

Thepiratebay.org

[N3TW4LK3R]

no problem. there's always http://www.thepiratebay.org/

and http://www.bittorrent.com/ of course :)

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[Capt'n Hector]

I don't know what your problem is, sir. I downloaded Star Wars III and don't remember raping any geese. But I do remember seeing it in my local movie theater a day later. I think the concentration of wealth that is Hollywood is proof positive that movies are overpriced. Has the P2P revolution hurt hollywod and the music industry? No, they've only helped it. Picture this: instead of vast recording companies, you have indepenent artists making their own music. They get exposure through word of mouth, P2P, etc. Their music is free for the taking. How do they make money then? Live concerts. So they won't be billionaires. Big deal, I won't have a hard time sleeping at night knowing I've prevented the latest pop idol from becoming extremely wealthy. As for movies? If the studios were smart, they would buy up audio and video hardware companies. Sooner or later, theater quality sound and video systems will become available to the home user and once that happens there will be no reason to go to a theater. Instead, the studios should make their movies free and make money off the presentation of their media. The more and better that media is, the more incentive there is to buy top quality gear. Kinda like the iTunes Music Store / iPod duality where the music is essentially free (apple makes nothing from iTMS) and the hardware to play it is the cash cow.

Anyway, just a thought. You can throw words like "illegal" and "rape" around all you want, but when Elite Torrents has more than a hundred thousand members alone... the people have spoken. It's time for something new.

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[That's Unpossible!]

I think the concentration of wealth that is Hollywood is proof positive that movies are overpriced.

No, its proof positive that they are successful business people. If you want proof that movies are overpriced, you'll have to wait until the market for movies takes a severe downturn after prices continue to rise.

Has the P2P revolution hurt hollywod and the music industry? No, they've only helped it.

Prove it.

Instead, the studios should make their movies free and make money off the presentation of their media.

So buy or start a studio, give your movies away for free, don't enforce your copyrights, and try to make money off the presentation of your media.

Oh, you only want to dictate how other people run their businesses?

TOUGH SHIT. You have the right not to watch the movie, not to break their licensing terms and take it for free.

You can throw words like "illegal" and "rape" around all you want, but when Elite Torrents has more than a hundred thousand members alone... the people have spoken. It's time for something new.

Do me a favor. Look up the phrase "tyranny of the majority," and tell me if you really think just because a large group of people think its ok, its ok. I heard one time thousands of Americans owned slaves. Guess that was OK, too? I hear companies violate the GPL all the time. I guess that's ok as long as there are thousands of companies doing it, right?

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[Travelsonic]

ThePirateBay isn't a safe harbor for thieves.

What theivery?

Those in the US who illegally download copyrighted material or make illegal copies to pass around to their friends are raping the Goose that lays the golden eggs.

Funny, I though that copyright holders were only recieving less, not having things (they don't have yet) taken away from them.

I'll bet you probably run Windows but because /. focuses on FOSS it is users of FOSS that get the blame for all the theft of copyrighted materal.

Creating new crimes are wek? As far as I know these people who AE caught are done under COPYRIGHT laws for copyright INFRIGNEMENT. Theft implies loss. Does it make it right? Not really (and if I don't say this, people will jump on me thinking I encourage piracy when I am only making a distinction) but it isn't theft. Legally, the owner of property has to be deprived of it first.

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[zenneth]

Excellent! Not only do I get access to your bands music, but I also appear to have won $1,000 in free gas! Thank you, pop-up Gods!

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[That's Unpossible!]

Yes it's unfortunate that people won't be able to live off their art, but somehow this isn't so horribly upsetting when you consider that the best music comes from people who aren't drenched in celebrity, and the best movies come from independant film-makers.

First of all, your idea that the best art is free art flies in the face of hundreds of years of art-making. Ask Mozart and hundreds of classical artists, musicians, painters, sculpters, etc. who created some of the finest art in the world for wealthy benefactors.

Secondly, you are incredibly short-sighted if you think all these great movies will be made if it starts to become unprofitable to make movies.

Third, yes there are good independent films. There are also horrible independent films. And independent filmmakers are constantly striving to MAKE MORE MONEY so they can spend it on their movies (and perhaps, make a living). There are good and bad big budget movies, as well. There are artistic movies, and there are entertaining movies.

The main point being all these people need to make money or the industry cannot sustain itself. Ignoring the main earners, the directors, producers, actors, the film industry also employs thousands of people in the direct production of a movie. And thousands more are employed in supporting arenas (screening the movies, creating the derivative works, etc).

As a token of my belief in the future of these industries, I hereby release all the available recorded works of my band, The Vaudeville Act, into the public domain.

And you should respect that not all artists want to release their works in this manner.

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[zenneth]

eh, I was only kidding around. I don't have any content created by me to share, so who am I to say anything? :)

Re:Thepiratebay.org

[m50d]

That is a lie that apple zealots keep repeating. iTMS makes an absolute killing.

Possible

[excalibrax]

was it even completely possible to have 10,000 coppies downloaded in 6 hours, Id love to see that kinda speed from my seeds

Re:Possible

[DeathFlame]

Within 24 hours, more than 10,000 copies of the "Star Wars" film had been swiped.

I'd say reading skills need some work.

Re:Possible

[buckymatters]

The sixth and final installment of the "Star Wars" franchise was available for downloading on Elitetorrents.org more than six hours before it was released on theaters Thursday after midnight, according to the government statement.

Within 24 hours, more than 10,000 copies of the "Star Wars" film had been swiped.

You must have read too fast.

Re:Possible

[NetNifty]

Presumably that's an estimate of complete copies transferred using the tracker (not just from one seed). With enough people I'd say it's possible.

Re:Possible

[grub]

EliteTorrents was FAST! My cable modem would be melting during the day when my neighbours were working and not using the local segment.

DISCLAIMER: downloading only legal things, of course.

Re:Possible

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

I don't buy it! It took me 4 days for christs sake!

Re:Possible

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn straight. On ET, I would regularly get 400kb/s and up from each torrent. It was really 24 hours that saw 10k copies, but ... that was the magic of EliteTorrents.

However, getting your ratio to recover after downloading at those speeds often meant you became a window-shopper for a week. Like after EVERY season of Stargate SG-1 I downloaded.

Re:Possible

[hawado]

Within 24 hours, more than 10,000 copies of the "Star Wars" film had been swiped.
No, 1 copy was swiped and 10,000 copies of it were made avalable.

Ugly site.

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn.. the FBI needs some better web designer. The site looks like crap and could cause a seizure.

Re:Ugly site.

[grub]

Damn.. the FBI needs some better web designer. The site looks like crap and could cause a seizure.

It's probably the same person that designed slashdot's IT scheme.

Re:Ugly site.

[schweini]

the fun thing is that it seems to have been generated with MS Word, and simply saved as HTML (take a look at the source). The feds (if they did that design) could at least have had the decency to use less screwed up HTML...

anybody care to explain what the "RTJKJAS" at the very end are supposed to mean?

Re:Ugly site.

[Nicholas Evans]

Damn.. the FBI needs some better web designer. The site looks like crap and could cause a seizure.

Ah, I can see it now. The guy who ran the torrent site sues the FBI for putting up a webpage that caused him to have a seizure, and he wins twenty million dollars in damages...

Actually it was...

[Trikenstein]

one less than infinite.

Re:Actually it was...

[zotz]

You are not a lawyer or elected official by any chance are you?

Do the math:

Infinity - 1 = ???

Here is a hint. The answer is not 42.

all the best,

drew

Re:Actually it was...

[zotz]

I think the "infinity - 1" was a quote from a politician when talking of copyright term limits. It could have been a judge though. (It could even have been an urban legend, it was quite a while back now and memory fades...)

all the best,

drew

Had copies?

[Luigi30]

How can a bittorrent tracker have copies of something?

Re:Had copies?

[LnxAddct]

It doesn't matter, this is a fake. They were DNS hacked and are trying to figure out what the hell is going on (according to their IRC channel). The Feds don't put up websites like that and they don't go around boasting about morals and copyright infringment on sites that they shut down. The feds also use style sheets on their sites and don't put 1337 sigs at the end of the page many line breaks past the end of the content. But the biggest offender is that that images don't have alt tags (as well as a few other things wrong) and thus the site doesn't comply with federal regulations for disabled people to be able to access all of the content of a federal page, if this were a government site, they'd be breaking their own laws. Not to mention that the feds just take a site offline when they shutdown a place (and they've never done it for copyright infringement), they don't dick around with new homepages for visitors to see like the MPAA did with lokitorrent.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Had copies?

[millennial]

It doesn't really matter. If you so much as provide a link of any sort to illegal material, even if it's just by hosting torrent files that contain references to trackers, you have likely violated the DMCA. The DMCA is very vaguely-worded. According to Gary Shapiro, in the June 5, 1998 Congressional hearing regarding the DMCA, "Section 1201(b) [of the DMCA] ... neither defines nor limits the term "technological protection measure." If you work your way around something that can be even loosely considered a TPM, you've violated the DMCA.

In 2003, Joe Nievelt, a student at Michigan Tech University, was sued for $97.8 BILLION for hosting a search engine on his web site that indexed the Windows shares on students' computers. He was liable for every single MP3 file listed out of over 65,000. See the story here.

He didn't actually have any copies of the files; in fact, the RIAA did nothing to find out who was actually sharing the songs. They targeted Joe to make an example out of him. He eventually settled out of court for $15,000 over 3 years.

Re:Had copies?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

What about the press releases?

Re:Had copies?

[PseudononymousCoward]

If so, those guys are good. They even got the ICE homepage: http://www.ice.gov/graphics/

Re:Had copies?

[LiquidCoooled]

Tell that to google:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=star+wars+s ith+filetype%3Atorrent

In order that google should comply with the DMCA, the offending party has to contact them and tell them the specific search terms that lead to the results.

Those results are then removed, the DMCA notice is intact and may lead to the details of the complaint.

(This may include listing the blocked or infringing sites)

btw, an example of googles DMCA practices can be found by searching for "kazaa lite"

Re:Had copies?

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Re:Had copies?

[Skuld-Chan]

ICE says otherwise. Their domain probably was jacked, but not by some hacker.

http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/newsreleases/arti cles/starwars052505.htm

Re:Had copies?

[damiam]

That must be a damn good hack, if they're able to feed CNN fake quotes from US government officials talking about the shutdown.

Re:Had copies?

[Hao Wu]

But misrepresenting yourself as FBI is SERIOUS CRIME.

Re:Had copies?

[OverlordQ]

~$ host elitetorrents.org
elitetorrents.org has address 192.31.21.68
elitetorrents.org mail is handled by 0 elitetorrents.org.
~$ host 192.31.21.68
68.21.31.192.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.dhs.gov.

Re:Had copies?

[LnxAddct]

Their DNS entry is just pointing to here: http://oy.sdsc.edu/ so I have no clue whats going on. Is it possible that these hackers spoofed all the news and media coverage by claiming to be people they aren't and then either social engineered the ICE webmaster to update the entry or hacked the ICE page too? The media has been known to just accept and report what its told, they may not have verified the identities of the guys who they quoted.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Had copies?

[LnxAddct]

Do you find it at all interesting that EliteTorrents.org now just points at http://oy.sdsc.edu/ ? That is not a government server, perhaps these hackers had a major dns server hack and pretended to be people they aren't to reporters. Something wierd is going on here and noone that runs or owns the server has been contacted yet by authorities so I can only assume that in addition to all the other evidence, this is just very clever hackers.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Had copies?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Yes, but the takedown page was apparently written in Word - at least it has Word HTML comment-data in it. That's very not uber-hacker and very much government-employee.

Re:Had copies?

[bill_mcgonigle]

There's definitely some DNS tomfoolery afoot:

%host elitetorrents.org
elitetorrents.org has address 64.202.167.192
%host 64.202.167.192
192.167.202.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ip-64-202-167-192.secureserver.net.

Government employees should all be asleep at this hour.

Re:Had copies?

[millennial]

It's some sort of "degrees of separation" thing, I'm pretty sure. Since a torrent file can connect you directly to the files, it's considered equal to providing direct URLs to illegal materials. However, you can link to web sites that host illegal materials as much as you want, so long as you don't link to the illegal content. Linking to a torrent isn't directly linking to the files, so it's OK.

This is just my understanding. It may be wrong.

Re:Had copies?

[OverlordQ]

DNS Cache most likely

Unlimited? Really?

[TheOtherChimeraTwin]

That Web site, Elitetorrents.org, had a selection of copyrighted works that government officials described as virtually unlimited.

OK, so did it have a copy of the latest Star Wars video? You know, the raw, uncensored, hard-to-find one.

Re:Unlimited? Really?

[krappie]

That Web site, Elitetorrents.org, had a selection of copyrighted works that government officials described as virtually unlimited.

yeah.. and I've been wondering where the hell I can get episodes of "Mama's Family" and "American Gladiators". No one seems to have any!

Im serious!

homeland security

[Kpt Kill]

Department of homeland security is now going after copyright infringment? What does RTJKJAS at the end of the page mean?

Re:homeland security

[TrappedByMyself]

Homeland Security isn't 100% terrorism. When the department was created there was a reorganization of existing agencies. Immigration and Customs, which handles stuff like copyright enforcement and counterfeit items, was put under Homeland Security.

Re:homeland security

[jZnat]

Well, I saw this in the article at PIV:

The Motion Picture Association of America provided valuable assistance to the investigation.

So not even the FBI or DHS could get an account into ET? Wow, it really was private. ;P

Re:homeland security

[hosecoat]

Well, I didn't realise. Immigration handling copyright enforcement, that makes way more sense.

Hydra

[1967mustangman]

Bittorrnt is a hydra-headed deal. THey will never be able to lop off enough heads to make a difference. Torrenters will just adapt.

Re:Hydra

[Tyler Eaves]

Perhaps, but I think a few convictions that send people to actual PRISON would cause usage to drop greatly. Lawsuits are one thing. Hard time is another.

Re:Hydra

[gosand]

Torrenters dealing in illegal wares should be shut down. If more and more sites use it for legitimate uses, then Bittorrent will survive. If it is only used for illegal stuff, then there are better chances that it will be attacked.

So they shut down a site that was trading in illegal stuff. What is the big deal? (other than the fact that the feds are concerned with THIS and not so much things that really hurt human beings)

Re:Hydra

[mr. methane]

Theoretically true of any criminal act, but by making an example of the ones you *do* happen to catch, you discourage others from doing the same thing.

Wonder how many people are going to be getting a little certified letter in the mail about 90-120 days from now.

Re:Hydra

[iminplaya]

If it is only used for illegal stuff, then there are better chances that it will be attacked.

Great! Let's hope all those attacks help to make a bigger, stronger Bittorrent. It is through these attacks that we can build up resistance. Just like in biology.

Re:Hydra

[Austerity Empowers]

Prison time is only likely going to be given to those hosting huge sites like this. Individuals doing this one at a time (a billion times) are not going to be targets of federal investigations, there isn't enough money in the world to do it.

Re:Hydra

[Fittysix]

There's no way to attack bittorrent as a whole, it's akin to attacking HTTP, FTP or any other application layer protocal.

Re:Hydra

[1967mustangman]

I think it is going to be really hard to go after the people who are downloading. They are going it, but in the long run I don't think it will be sucessful. They societal norm has changed, whether that makes it right or not is a completely different matter, but times are rapidly changing and I think were are going to find laws on piracy being loosened. Now I am not saying I think all downloading will be made legal, but I do think that things like sharing of TV episodes and audio books/ebooks will be illegal much longer.

Re:Hydra

[jhoger]

Reading the article (!) it seems the FBI was going after those initialling sharing the content in several raids, and probably going after elitetorrents to get evidence against the sharers.

I think that's the right thing, as opposed to attacking the network itself. Shutting down elitetorrents was probably just a side effect of gathering evidence.

Re:Hydra

[maxpublic]

So they shut down a site that was trading in illegal stuff. What is the big deal? (other than the fact that the feds are concerned with THIS and not so much things that really hurt human beings)

Torrents wouldn't be so bloody popular unless the current distribution model for media was a source of widespread dissatisfaction. Despite a plethora of laws passed to uphold aging business models, the number of Americans (just Americans) engaging in illegal downloading activity passed more than an estimated *70 million* last month. When a quarter of your citizens consistently and repeatedly break the law despite the imposition of relatively harsh (even ludicrous) prison sentences then there's something seriously wrong with the law - by definition. The citizens supposedly define the law, and if a good chunk of them ignore it (with the numbers rising every month) it's a fair bet that the law they're dismissing doesn't reflect their own interests or goals.

The RIAA and MPAA refuse to adapt to changing market conditions. Just plain, flat-out refuse. Probably because they know that in this case while adaption might very well preserve or even increase profits, it'll almost certainly strip them of the non-economic power they've acquired over the last fifty years - power that the tin-pots in the industries love more than money itself. So instead of adapting and avoiding this whole mess they buy laws and send Americans to jail over COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT, which is just fucking stupid.

And yet despite this, the increasingly stiffer penalties, and the crackdowns, the number of Joes and Janes breaking these laws is climbing faster than at any other time in history since the Prohibition! That should tell you something right there about how well the law reflects the will of the people it supposedly serves.

Max

Re:Hydra

[gosand]

Torrents wouldn't be so bloody popular unless the current distribution model for media was a source of widespread dissatisfaction. Despite a plethora of laws passed to uphold aging business models, the number of Americans (just Americans) engaging in illegal downloading activity passed more than an estimated *70 million* last month. When a quarter of your citizens consistently and repeatedly break the law despite the imposition of relatively harsh (even ludicrous) prison sentences then there's something seriously wrong with the law - by definition. The citizens supposedly define the law, and if a good chunk of them ignore it (with the numbers rising every month) it's a fair bet that the law they're dismissing doesn't reflect their own interests or goals.

I absolutely agree. But we don't define the laws. We elect the people, who as a group, write and pass the laws. The laws only serve the interest of those who write them, and are able to pass them. And they are passed in very dishonest ways, usually by lumping them with other laws that are sure to pass. Note the recent passing of a law requiring national ID cards. It was tacked onto a military spending bill at the last minute. Someone doesn't vote for it, they can be easily labeled as anti-American for voting against sending money to fund our stupid war.

But I would rather have the ??AA attack people who are breaking the law than those who aren't. I would rather that they shut down sites trafficking in illegal copies of works instead of trying to pass laws to outlaw P2P applications. There are ways to fight back, and breaking the law is usually not the BEST way to do it. Sometimes it is the only way to do it, but I don't think it is in this case. All the ??AA wants is money and power. They need to be shown how to make money via P2P because their power is slipping. They also need to realize that we don't need them. We don't need movies and music - we want them. In fact, many might argue that we need movies and music because they (the ??AA) created a culture where they are necessary. They created the "more more more" culture, and now the people are wanting more - and getting it however they can. So I don't sympathize with the ??AA at all, they are reaping what they have sown. And I actually think that people have opened their eyes a little.

Re:Hydra

[Scudsucker]

Perhaps, but I think a few convictions that send people to actual PRISON would cause usage to drop greatly.

And pigs may fly. We've had long, harsh sentenses for drug possession for decades, and it hasn't lowered the drug trade one iota, and downloading movies is a lot easier and cheaper than buying drugs.

And this ended piracy for all time...

[Pacifix]

... The RIAA and MPAA heads can sleep easy tonight on their piles of money with their many beautiful women. Seriously, spend money on fixing the outdated media distribution channels and piracy will stop being worth it.

Re:And this ended piracy for all time...

[discordja]

pretty damned hard to make 'free' not worth it is all. I suppose you can reduce the overall number of pirates (Give me a way to see the TV shows I want when I want them and I'll stop torrenting) but I don't think they are gonna go away even with a change in the distribution model.

Re:And this ended piracy for all time...

[iminplaya]

Seriously, spend money on fixing the outdated media distribution channels and piracy will stop being worth it.

Please! This isn't about piracy! This is an industry trying to save itself from DIY publishing and distribution. This piracy thing is a really good distraction, apparently. It seems to have clouded almost everybody's vision of what's really at stake. If piracy is so rampant, why is the industry making record amounts of money every year?? The new Star Wars flick is in the Guiness Book, and yet these ninnies are crying about Bittorrent. Screw 'em. We just need to build more resistant systems. This should be our unified goal, and we need to resist frivilous diversions like this.

Re:And this ended piracy for all time...

[arose]

If you are talking about building stronger DIY publishing and distribution systems I would agree.

Re:And this ended piracy for all time...

[Doctor_Jest]

You are correct, and here's my $.02 on the issue:

It's never been about piracy ever, because we never hear about huge piracy rings in the Pacific Rim being "shut down" and thousands of bootleg DVDs taken off the streets. China and other places just give the US the finger when it comes to "tightening copyright provisions and intellectual property protections."

You see reporters walking up to vendors on the street corner in New York selling movies one week old on VHS or DVD, yet there's only one high profile bust for stuff like that in the last 5 years. (They were more interested in getting the P2P networks anyway.) Granted those vendors might not even have anything on those tapes, but the point is still there. Piracy has never been their concern. People like that and the bootleg DVD makers are what ACTUALLY rob them of their precious "revenue", yet trading online for no cash whatsoever is more important to them. Empowerment of the end user is their chief problem. Our computers are powerful enough to encode movies to watch whenever, wherever we want. So they nix the ability to copy them (or try to) with the DMCA. Our computers are connected to the internet via more than a 28.8 modem these days (some of us, I mean)... their idea is to subpoena names of users from ISPs who are "suspected" of pirating songs on Kazaa. Great strategy.. piss off the demographic most likely to buy your crap, RIAA. :)

When you can dictate to them when and how you want to view their content, it makes them nervous. When you have the ability to sidestep their dog and pony show for old TV shows or movies, they are pissed. (I hate to use this analogy, but here goes..) It is not unlike the illuminators decrying the invention of moveable type. The sunset on how the studios/labels do their business is rapidly approaching. This is their last gasp attempt to try and stifle progress.

ROTS was #2 all time box office leader (in terms of opening weekend gross), as well as making new records in day to day sales and ticket pre-sells, yet the only thing you hear is "Revenue is down year to year for the 3rd straight year..." We can't appear to be making MONEY after we tell them how bad piracy is to our business. :) The RIAA has been RAKING it in the last 3 years, and they are whining about piracy even louder than when they were supposedly documenting evidence their revenue was down to those nasty P2P fartknockers.

Why? Because "Monster in Law" and the 37 TV show remakes planned aren't interesting to the average movie goer? No. It's those damn P2P people. Yeah, right. Convenient scapegoat. :)

It's enough to make me wonder why I even go to the movies at all. (The last movie I saw in the theater was HHGTTG, but before that, I'd not been since LOTR:ROTK.) Nothing showing that I can't wait and rent for a lot less, and avoid the idiots that fill theaters. I saw HHGTTG in a theater with 3 other people. It was worth waiting until then to see it. :)

Sorry for the rant... it's just getting to me. The MPAA/RIAA are a bunch of whiny old crows who wish for the days long past. They wish technology wasn't leaving them behind, and if they have their way, they'll stomp it until it is leaving them behind. :)

Re:And this ended piracy for all time...

[iminplaya]

I've been saying for some time now that the only people that will lose out to P2P are the street vendors. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are the ones who went crying to the ??AAs about how they're losing customers to this P2P thing. We need to understand here that the street vendors and the content producers have a very strong relationship. The vendors are helping the studios acquire and maintain mindshare, especially in places where people have no intention of paying full price. They only distribute big money making films or music. You don't see much real indy content bootlegging. So the content is still under studio control. Their stuff is the only stuff on peoples' minds. Very effective indeed. And now we need to turn IP law into a national security issue in order to get people to go along. This may effectively cut off any real anti-IP movement as being "anti-American". It worked for McCarthy, and it still works today.

Footage

[asadodetira]

Assuming there's video footage of the shutdown please someone post a torren... ...never mind

Re:Footage

[InvisibleSoul]

Video footage of shutdown? Check. http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/multimedia/clip00 35.avi Torrent of video? Check. http://www.huuhaa.info/clip0035.avi.torrent Anything else you would like to request?

Re:Footage

[Skuld-Chan]

Here's the video footage, unfortunately its not in torrent format (yet),

http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/multimedia/clip00 35.avi

Re:Footage

[lcnxw]

The funny thing is that whoever made that video accessed a totally different file of the movie. They actually pulled up a trailer that was ripped from TV. That is not the actual film, they have no evidence in this video clip that the release on that site contains the file. I still feel very skeptical about all of this.

Re:Footage

[shish]

There is a video, but it's 80MB for 1 minute... Another reason I like pirates -- they make a better job of things than the official companies do; they don't have to bow to customers who refuse to upgrade, so they're free to use all the latest tech (codecs etc) -- this helps spread the tech for when legal users want it, and people like myself can use decent codecs and be fairly confident that the users'll have a compatible player. (5 minutes with mencoder's fast mpeg4 settings, and it can be cut from 80MB to 4 with no visible quality loss...)

RTJKJAS?

[christose]

What on earth is the hidden "RTJKJAS" that appears on the bottom of http://elitetorrents.org/ ?

I guess somebody didn't like the FBI and HS insignias... Is this an indication of HS abusing the power it gained after 9/11 ?

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Anonymous Coward]

dude did you try clicking on it? i instantly got catapulled into a secret network of spy computers that had access to every mainframe all over the world!!!

then i had sex with sandra bullocks and my day was complete

Re:RTJKJAS?

[mpcooke3]

It's so sad. I saw those hidden chars and tried a few url variations before realising that in fact I wasn't sandra bullock.

Re:RTJKJAS?

[dame4jc]

Wait, wait, wait. Lemme get this straight. FBI & DHS use Microsoft crap to build webpages? You'd think they could either afford a better web development suite, or at least grab Dreamweaver off a torrent before they shutdown a site...

Re:RTJKJAS?

[zicherd]

Is that horrendous red page really using almost 300 lines of HTML code? And what is with all of the microsoft links in there?? Is using Frontpage and making the page red supposed to make us not want to use Bittorrent? I guess I will uninstall my client right away! NOT

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Ralph Yarro]

What on earth is the hidden "RTJKJAS"

Return of The Jedi King, Jar-Jar Against Spiderman.

It's the next epic hollywood blockbluster which was leaked early and led to the site being taken down.

Re:RTJKJAS?

[BFlatSeven]

It's not even Frontpage, it's Word - don't know which is worse

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Frogbert]

Forget the hidden message! I should sue the FBI for giving me a seasure.

Re:RTJKJAS?

[christose]

I get "IKABARJR" with Caesar Cipher, shift by +17 pos. Interesting... ^o)

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Spy der Mann]

I bet the fbi/cia/nsa/riaa/mpaa didn't even know about it until someone reported it.

"Guys, we got a report on Elite Torrents."
"Aw man! I was just about to download my copy of Sith!"
"Shut up, Jones. Let's shut that thing down."
"Yes, sir. (Bummer)"

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Kjuib]

it is probably a double Caesar Cipher then...

Re:RTJKJAS?

[pizzaman100]

I'll put money on Spiderman in that battle.

Re:RTJKJAS?

[jZnat]

The even sadder part is that this doesn't give any results yet:
http://www.google.com/search?q=RTJKJAS

Re:RTJKJAS?

[str8]

I suspect the 'web developer' just put some garbage on the end of the word doc to prevent the fine Microsoft product (I'll tell you where you want to go today!) from deleting the blank lines.

Psst... Hey buddy, can you spare a .sig?

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Dirtside]

then i had sex with sandra bullocks and my day was complete

You misspelled "bollocks" :P

Re:RTJKJAS?

[sonoluminescence]

This site is saying it's a DNS attack and a hoax.

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=801

anyone confirm this?

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Ava3ar]

i think your right

Re:RTJKJAS?

[hosecoat]

damn, it sent me to goatse

Re:RTJKJAS?

[lance_rushing]

I think it is the initials of the typist, bosses initial and or the department's acronym.

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Suddenly_Dead]

And the update seems to say that it's not a hack.

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=802

Re:RTJKJAS?

[larry bagina]

I'd rather do her, then take a dump on her. Different strokes for different folks.

Offtopic: my no-bot text image is "anigger". GNAA indeed.

Re:RTJKJAS?

[advocate_one]

it's not there anymore...

the domain's apparently up for sale on GoDaddy.com...

Re:RTJKJAS?

[identity0]

"Read The Jailbait Klepto-copyright Jurisprudence, Asshole Slashdotter"

It's their way of saying "There are laws against what this evil site was doing". So next time you're tempted to copy some divx movies, just remember - "Read The Jailbait Klepto-copyright Jurisprudence, Asshole Slashdotter"

Sorry, it's 5am...

Re:RTJKJAS?

[Tokerat]

You need to type the URL directly into your voice-activated copy of ResEdit, running on Windows 95, to make sure there are enough "real-life" references that geeks won't complain.

We don't need no steenkeng warrants

[WillAffleckUW]

We're From Homeland Insecurity!

All Your Torrents Are Belong To Disney!

Terrorent

[EnronHaliburton2004]

I suggest a new word:

Terrorent: A terrorist who uses bittorrent to illegally distribute American Freedom ©.

Re:Terrorent

[LiquidCoooled]

Mirror it now.

Re:Terrorent

[EnronHaliburton2004]

Dang, they shut it down! Those dorks SHUT DOWN FREEDOM!

Star Wars 3 Linked To?

[osewa77]

May be linked to the Release of Star Wars 3, any action against movie download sites at this time could be. Very great the financial impact of piracy on this particular film could be, therefore criticize the Feds for doing this now, we cannot. Open source principles on Open source movies should be applied. A commercial movie Star Wars is, and benefit from the Piracy is cannot, because knows about it everyone does already.

Re:Star Wars 3 Linked To?

[Guspaz]

But hundreds of millions of dollars Lucas and Fox will make, regardless of piracy it will. The loss of a few thousand dollars a problem is not.

Re:Star Wars 3 Linked To?

[SillyNickName4me]

Mistaken you are my young padawan, see here for example.

How long before

[ShatteredDream]

They bust hundreds or even thousands of users and take this to Congress to justify funding and manpower increases? This could be a big profile bust and they're going to exploit it to their advantage.

Re:How long before

[neoform]

yeah, the site had more than 75,000 active members that uploaded a lot..

man that site was great.. booo..

Damn

[alexborges]

And i found out late as allways. I didnt know about this "unlimited" torrent site....

Buah

Title of the post should have been:

[pjammer]

OMFG! 5-0 PNWS L33T T0RRNTZ! LOL!!!

Perhaps they should have been using an artifical intelligence content-authoring program?

It seems unreal...

[jZnat]

Why the FUCK would the FBI (who's purpose is to prevent communism) even get involved in copyright infringement? This seems to be in the **AAs' field to send cease and desist letters, or even the FTC to step in and bitch at ET, but not the FBI...

Re:It seems unreal...

[jumbledInTheHead]

Because when you download movies and music, your downloading communism. A friendly reminder from the RIAA and MPAA.

Re:It seems unreal...

[justforaday]

...would the FBI (who's purpose is to prevent communism)...

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not... :-/

Re:It seems unreal...

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, where the hell did you get any of that from? The FBI was founded in the very early 1900's as the first official Federal police force. It has nothing to do specifically with Communism, except as much as its jurisdiction includes domestic espionage.

The FBI's jurisdiction covers all Federal laws not primarily handled by another branch (for example, counterfeting is handled by the Secret Service). Copyright infringement has long since moved from a purely civil to a criminal matter and therefore falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI. The *IAAs can certainly send cerase and desist letters, and I believe are required to to maintain some of their rights under civil law, but being a private agency they have no say over the enforcement of the law in question (they can choose to cooperate in the prosecution or not, of course, but they don't have any control over what the DA decides).

Re:It seems unreal...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

After a certain level of infringement, it becomes a criminal matter just by scale of infringement. Maybe it should be just a civil matter, but it isn't.

Re:It seems unreal...

[shark72]

" Why the FUCK would the FBI (who's purpose is to prevent communism) even get involved in copyright infringement?"

I'll assume you're not trolling:

Because if you do enough of it, it's a crime. This falls under federal law.

I'll go ahead and answer some other Slashdot noob copyright infringement questions while I'm here:

Why is the government enforcing this law? Aren't there be terrorists to catch?

Walk &
Chew gum &

No, really. What's it to them?

Spend some time out of the US and you'll learn that intellectual property is one of the US's biggest exports. The revenue earned (and taxes paid) by US-based citizens and companies through the distribution of intellectual property -- whether it's music, movies, books, or software -- is absolutely enormous, and whether we like it or not, it's a significant reason that we in the US enjoy the quality of life that we do. Like original sin, we are all stained by the shame of enforcing the rights of copyright holders.

Enough with this borgouis capitalistic intellectual property nonsense. This country is ruined by greed! Except for the part where I download music and movies for free instead of paying for them... I wouldn't consider that greed. But I digress. Isn't there a sane place where people don't pay no never mind to intellectual property?

There sure are -- try the (somewhat short) list of countries that aren't signatories to the Berne Convention. Iran and Iraq are among them, as well as a few African nations and dirt-poor tropical islands. They are largely places that the typical US citizen would not want to live. Revenue sources like the taxes that Microsoft pays tend to go toward things like infrastructure here in the US -- clean running water and the like.

Isn't this a victimless crime? Owners and creators of movies, books and music are all rich beyond my wildest imagination. I see this pointed out on Slashdot all the time, and so it must be true.

You have taken the first vital step toward sanitizing the act of ignoring others' rights. This trick is pretty common. For example, it worked well in the 18th century when "manifest destiny" dictated that we grab all the land. It became immensely easier to do this once we started thinking of Indians as godless, drunken, flea-infested savages who stole our horses and raped our women.

So what's your point?

If you'd rather download that song or that film rather than pay for it, go ahead and do it -- just don't try to make it a social cause. At best, you're being wise with your dollar. You're not a hero, you're not advancing a social cause, and this is not the Montgomery freedom march.

Re:It seems unreal...

[TANK Ex Mortis]

You might have had a valid point if you hadn't compared copyright violations to genocide.

Re:It seems unreal...

[shark72]

" You might have had a valid point if you hadn't compared copyright violations to genocide."

Ah, but I think the careful reader will understand that I am actually referring to the methods by which we as a race manage to justify violating others' rights. History has shown us time and time again that when there's a large group of people that want to violate the rights of a smaller group of people, and the larger group has technology on their side, then the first step is is for the bigger group to come up with whatever reasons they need to in order to feel okay about stomping all over the smaller group. Whether you're a songwriter struggling to make the rent and the Slashbots are telling each other that it's okay to distribute your work without your permission because you're stinking rich, or if you were an Indian who found themselves at the wrong end of a gun one morning because of hysteria in the press about the raping and the looting, it's the same forces at work here. It's simply how we tick as a human race.

Think about it for a bit and you'll probably find other examples through history that fall at various points on the scale between copyright infringement and genocide.

Re:It seems unreal...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

like the taxes that Microsoft pays

Like in this article?

Microsoft, which ranks No. 4 in market value, did not pay any federal taxes either, it seems.

But please go on. I could read your bullshit all night and into the morning, and never grow tired of it.

Re:It seems unreal...

[shark72]

"But please go on. I could read your bullshit all night and into the morning, and never grow tired of it."

Please take it down a notch. Replace Microsoft with $BIGCOMPANY. I believe my point was clear: the government runs on taxes, and US companies that produce intellectual property collectively pay a lot of taxes. Slashdotters are spot-on when they point out that our government is owned by big corporate interests like Disney. It is not because whoever's running Disney this week has naked photos of President Bush (at least, not that I know of) but because Disney profits help keep the government running.

Where they fall off the beam, however, is when they state that this is a justification for violating others' rights.

Re:It seems unreal...

[nomadic]

They pay state taxes, then, huh? And their employees pay income taxes, right? His point is still valid.

Re:It seems unreal...

[Dun Malg]

Ah, but I think the careful reader will understand that I am actually referring to the methods by which we as a race manage to justify violating others' rights. History has shown us time and time again that when there's a large group of people that want to violate the rights of a smaller group of people, and the larger group has technology on their side, then the first step is is for the bigger group to come up with whatever reasons they need to in order to feel okay about stomping all over the smaller group

Unfortunately, this line of thinking is a red herring. These "methods" are are identical whether the larger group is intent on "violating others' rights", or actually fighting for the just rights of all that are being infringed upon by the minority. Genocide is clearly a case of the former. You have not successfully argued that copyright is in the same category. Copyright has the force of law behind it right now, but then again, so did the ownership of human beings.

Basically, you're begging the question by assuming copyright infringement is on the same "side" as genocide. You need to argue that copyright, as it stands, is not an unjust infringement of the rights of the majority first.

Re:It seems unreal...

[eddiegee]

Wow. You not only compare copyright infringment to genocide, but then justify that statement by stating that the "Slashbots" are an oppressive group denying struggling songwriters their fair share due to P2P distribution? If there was an award for hyperbole, you'd get 1st prize (The biggest award ever awarded ever in the world!).

The reason any major label performers are struggling is not because of P2P, it is because of the outdated, completely feudal methods of distribution and compensation that exist in the music industry. Many artists are figuring out that they can make good money by allowing their music to be distributed for free! Go look at http://downhillbattle.org/ where there are already artists and activists trying to change the totally obsolete big label distribution system. It seems that most of the anti-P2P FUD I see comes from the **AA's and the industry themselves and not the artists.

Of course I'm sure they'd NEVER stoop to astroturfing a site like Slashdot, now would they?

Re:It seems unreal...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

No, they don't. The tech industry uses stock options to avoid taxes.

Hollywood uses creative accounting (but not just for taxes, Winston Groom didn't earn any royalties on Forrest Gump, how much did it gross again?) to avoid them.

There are big companies that pay taxes, but you'll find out that they have little in the way of marketable intellectual property.

It is not because whoever's running Disney this week has naked photos of President Bush (at least, not that I know of) but because Disney profits help keep the government running.

You mean, they keep election campaigns running. That cash never touches the treasury. Can you really be this dense?

is when they state that this is a justification for violating others' rights.

Like my rights to not have to tolerate eternal copyright? I'll gladly trade files of steamboat willy all day, it's in the public domain, corrupt congressional acts notwithstanding.

Early home computer software becomes public domain in the next 2 years (and I make copies of it now, because it may not survive much longer if I don't). Want to sic the FBI on me?

Re:It seems unreal...

[shark72]

"You need to argue that copyright, as it stands, is not an unjust infringement of the rights of the majority first."

Your point is well taken, but I think that's a futile argument. Whether copyright law is just is one of those fundamental issues that I would lump into abortion, capital punishment, religion, and who was the hottest member of Bananarama. Nobody's ever going to change any minds.

Re:It seems unreal...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

No, they pay little in the way of state taxes. Often, the threat of moving HQ to another state is enough to get all sorts of special tax breaks. Even without that, theirs is pretty sweet.

Their employees are seperate legal entities. But even if they weren't, guess what, Washington state doesn't have personal income tax. Haha.

When you're wrong, you're *WRONG*.

Re:It seems unreal...

[shark72]

"You not only compare copyright infringment to genocide"

straw man

"...but then justify that statement by stating that the "Slashbots" are an oppressive group denying struggling songwriters their fair share due to P2P distribution?"

straw man number two

"Many artists are figuring out that they can make good money by allowing their music to be distributed for free!"

Agreed. There are plenty of artists who have embraced free or "try before you buy" distribution, or at least DRM-free distribution. The way to bring down the current system is to support these artists, and not violate the rights of those whose choice of distribution terms isn't to your liking. Right now, Apple is laughing all the way to the bank with their 20-million-odd DRM'ed downloads. If we support the artists that use Magnatunes or MP3Tunes, then perhaps more artists will have the financial motivation to do the same.

I disagree with you, however, on your choice of the word "obsolete" to describe the way the record labels are doing business. The Apple iTMS is still orders of magnitude larger than Magnatunes or MP3Tunes. Much more has to happen before the word "obsolete" will apply.

"It seems that most of the anti-P2P FUD I see comes from the **AA's and the industry themselves and not the artists."

That's because the trade organizations have a lot more money to spend on the effort. They have a bigger megaphone.

"Of course I'm sure they'd NEVER stoop to astroturfing a site like Slashdot, now would they?"

Ah, I see, you believe I am astroturfing. Remember, not all geeks share the same moral compass.

Re:It seems unreal...

[ScrewMaster]

You might have had a point if you were comparing apples to oranges. If the Indians (pardon me, "native Americans") had had powerful organizations that nominally represented them, and that were willing to destroy anyone and anything to which they came into contact in order to protect their much-vaunted "rights", were happy to abuse the court system to an astonishing degree, that were able to spend any amount of money in order to buy laws favorable only to them to the detriment of everyone else ... well, there might be a few more points of similarity. Truth to tell, given the way the music industry treats its artists, if our native American friends had had such a group defending them they would have been already wiped out by the time we got there. It's one thing to uphold copyright and a belief that intellectual property is a valid principle ... it is quite another to defend the likes of our two favorite "industry trade organizations" who deserve no respect and so far as I'm concerned have no rights. The people who have the most to gain from the advent of the Internet are the very artists whom you claim are being destroyed by this technology ... the ones who have the most to lose and are the most deserving of what George Gilder once called "creative destruction" are the studios themselves. The two are not the same.

And so far as the motion picture crowd is concerned, they just posted a record year in 2004. They are apparently not in any danger of immediate destruction by Bit Torrent, in spite of their eternal cries of "{insert new technology here} will destroy the industry!"

Besides, this is not a case of a technologically advanced civilization coming into contact with a relatively primitive culture and wiping it out. It just isn't. If anything, it is more akin to the way, say, blacksmiths got wiped out when the automobile eliminated the horse-and-buggy as a primary mode of transportation, how vacuum-tube manufacturers lost out to the planar transistor, the way CRT makers are making way for the flat panel ... in other words, progress. By your logic, automobiles should have been outlawed to protect the people that bred horses and maintained them, and transistors should have been outlawed to avoid competing with their predecessors. In reality, many companies that had been making tubes got into making transistors and survived, and I'm sure there were blacksmiths who wised up and learned how to fix cars. The fact that the entertainment industry has, by and large, been unwilling to accept progress in any form without being keelhauled by the courts and the marketplace doesn't mean that they have some enshrined right to exist, or that they shouldn't be required to adapt to the changing technological landscape just like any other business. The technology is, it does what it does, and it provides benefits to the entire world that go far, far beyond music and movies. I'm sorry, but I don't feel that the entire entertainment industry is worth the damage being done to the legal systems of a number of nations, and society as a whole.

Re:It seems unreal...

[not4me]

The FBI?? Forget them - why the hell would Customs and Immigration be involved? That's just silly. Oh ya and that Department of Homeland Security too? Donald must have found Bin Laden! He was really the one running ET! Dirka Dirka.

Re:It seems unreal...

[nomadic]

You're throwing in weird distinctions that make no sense. You're saying that because Microsoft doesn't pay federal taxes and its employees don't pay state income taxes then the company provides no revenue to any branch of government?

Let's break it down:

Microsoft pays state taxes, both income and state property taxes.

Microsoft sells a lot of products in 50 states. Those states will get the sales tax from the purchases.

Their employees pay federal income tax, payroll taxes, state property taxes, and state sales tax (which Washington does have).

Not all their employees live in Washington. Those in other states will pay any state income taxes there.

The government also gets to charge Microsoft's stockholders for dividend payouts. Plus export fees for things sent overseas.

Re:It seems unreal...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Microsoft pays state taxes, both income

No they don't. It took too long to find citable links last night, don't feel like it today. Apparently the state of Washington feels blessed by their presence so much, that they basically get a free ticket.

and state property taxes.

Yeh, that's real significant.

Microsoft sells a lot of products in 50 states. Those states will get the sales tax from the purchases.

Oh, so now other people unaffiliated with Microsoft except for their bad taste in software, actually count? Those people would be spending their cash on something else, to be sure, if not for Microsoft and its monopolistic tendencies. We'd get sales tax on whatever else they bought too.

The government also gets to charge Microsoft's stockholders for dividend payouts

Yeh. They're whole single dividend in the history of the corporation.

Re:It seems unreal...

[HoneyNutCheerios]

So what if MS, Cisco, and other companies do not pay taxes DIRECTLY? They generate an enormous amount of business, which fuels the economy.

The difference between the strike price and the market price becomes taxable income for the employee. So the deducations, which allow the said companies to not pay taxes, are actually taxed.

Then if the employees spend money in order to deduct from their taxes, the economy grows. Consider the ripple effect - trickle down economics. Why do you think the US gov't, and other gov't's, allow companies and people to deduct from their taxes?

In brief, you are exactly correct that MS and the likes do not pay much taxes. But this does not necessarily create an adverse effect in our economy. Yes the government receives less money from MS and other companies, but the economy flourishes; in the subsequent fiscal years, the government actually receives more net tax money.

Re:It seems unreal...

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I don't believe in magic, and I'm not superstitious.

And I sure as hell don't believe your economics. I need not mention that those economics are voodooish even by the standards of the quacks that run economies, I suppose.

Elite Torrents?

[jd]

Maybe it wasn't the Government, this time - maybe it was The Thargons!! Those nasty insectoids get everywhere, and it would be hard to tell the difference unless you count the scales. Either that, or maybe it's Brabben, trying to get at poor Ian again.

seems to be fake

[ChoGGi]

from the irc channel

SithLord changes topic to 'Site Status : Down : ET Was DNS Hacked'
ET thanks everyone for there patience ... we are trying to get ionfo as fast as we can
info*

also at the bottom of the page it says RTJKJAS

Re:seems to be fake

[scsscs]

No, it is real. http://www.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel05/bittorre nt052505.htm

Re:seems to be fake

[anethema]

Actually thats totally wrong.
This is what the actual irc channel topic is:

* Topic for #elitetorrents is: Site is down forever. please part. > http://www.ice.gov/graphics/index.htm

* Topic for #elitetorrents set by SithLord- at Wed May 25 13:00:56 2005

Re:seems to be fake

[erik umenhofer]

IRC Channel says it's down for good:
http://www.ice.gov/graphics/index.htm

Re:seems to be fake

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust me, it's not a fake.

The site, for all purposes, was actually hacked. The ISP (LeaseWeb) was NOT in the turnouver.

We originally thought it was fake too - hence the "ET Was DNS Hacked" message. Nothing added up. The DNS didn't foward to the real dhs.gov, and the page was crappy (and written with MSWord!)

Then we got messages from some of our "high member staff" that said they got busted. That's when the door was slammed tight.

It is real, I can assure you.

Re:seems to be fake

[jZnat]

I dunno, but this quote seems to make it seem fake (or just very stupid):

"Our goal is to shut down as much of this illegal operation as quickly as possible to stem the serious financial damage to the victims of this high-tech piracy - the people who labor to produce these copyrighted products," said Acting Assistant Attorney General Richter. "Today's crackdown sends a clear and unmistakable message to anyone involved in the online theft of copyrighted works that they cannot hide behind new technology."

"Internet pirates cost U.S. industry hundreds of billions of dollars in lost revenue every year from the illegal sale of copyrighted goods and new online file-sharing technologies make their job even easier," said Assistant Secretary Garcia. "Through today's landmark enforcement actions, ICE and the FBI have shut down a group of online criminals who were using legitimate technology to create one-stop shopping for the illegal sharing of movies, games, software and music."

"The theft of copyrighted material is far from a victimless crime," said Assistant Director Reigel of the FBI. "When thieves steal this data, they are taking jobs away from hard workers in industry, which adversely impacts the U.S. economy. The FBI remains committed to working with our partners in law enforcement at all levels and private industry to identify and take action against those responsible."

(Bolded stuff to aid the lazy)
Source Article

Re:seems to be fake

[benow]

Hmmm, the movie at ice.gov is quite large. Serving the file with bittorrent may help 'em out.

Most people don't know any better...

[Marnhinn]

True - to most people this isn't a misuse of terrorist fighting powers, but then again most people don't know what a torrent even is.

Average Joe American, is not savvy / educated enough to understand the mechanics of torrents, Hollywood (for instance that - Star Wars was an insider leak) or that this is a misuse of the DoH's resources. To them, pirates, downloaders and terrorists are one and the same.

Why? Because somewhere along the last couple of decades, peoples' knowledge of their own laws, (especially laws involving quickly changing technology) took a significant downturn. Simply try asking people on the street about the USAPatriot Act or the DMCA. Most - know nothing. Some may have a different perception of the act due to propaganda and only a few will care about it.

Unless it is directly affecting the person, it's not important to them for the most part...

Democracies, in order to be effective, require active and INFORMED citizens - something that is slowly dissappearing (for a multitude of reasons).

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Orgazmus]

Democracies, in order to be effective, require active and INFORMED citizens - something that is slowly dissappearing (for a multitude of reasons).

Maybe the old impulse cannon you target at your heads all day long has something to do with this?
Fair and balanced, my ass!

Dear Americans:
Stop letting TV control your view, and check things out for yourselves. It might be interesting to see what is going on outside of the living room.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Olix]

God, that patriot act of yours is darn scary. does anyone know if there is an equivilant in Britain? I hope not, I like to think that British norms are more informed than American norms (Though the results of our last election seem to suggest otherwise.)

It scares me that any body, even governments, can have such power. I like to think that in the modern age, people are protected by bodies like the UN. It pisses me off when the governing bodies of countries like America ignore UN rules because they think they are above the international law. In a perfect world, no one would have such extreme power over anyone else...

Screw it, maybe I'll just give up the real world. People are always saying that nerds like me have 'poor social skills'. What a load of crap! Sure, in their world I might be considered a bit strange, but in the world that is most important to me, the internet, I am a good member of society. But I am off topic, so I'll stop.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[PseudononymousCoward]

that patriot act of yours is darn scary. does anyone know if there is an equivilant in Britain?

Are you kidding me? You guys don't even have a Constitution to provide an foundation to object to laws like PATRIOT. Have you ever checked out the UK's anti-terror laws? Check out the "Anti- Terrorism, Crime and Security Act of 2001" (which, BTW I'm unclear whether its anti terrorism, crime, and security, or only anti terrorism and crime; I would presume that it is pro-security, though the title is a bit ambiguous on that point.) Its chock full of fun bits.

Better yet, check out the laws in the UK in the 1970's and 80's to deal with the IRA--I'm not defending any group or act here, just pointing out that many of those laws make PATRIOT look benign. Just a hint: indefinite detention without any trial, and there's more where that came from.

Far from what the rhetoric of /. would lead one to believe, the civil liberties in the US are quite extensive, and quite well-protected. It is only because they are so extensive, that we notice when they are diminished.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[NDPTAL85]

Hey guess what? Europeans watch a lot of TV as well. Humans are fundamentally the same all around the world.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Anonymous Coward]

Democracies, in order to be effective, require active and INFORMED citizens - something that is slowly dissappearing (for a multitude of reasons).

it seems like a conflict of interest to have a government that relies on an educated populated to also be responsible for the education of that very same population.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[maxpublic]

Dear Americans:

This should read 'dear humans', but I guess some europeans can't admit that their folks are just as fucking ignorant as our own.

Max

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[un1xl0ser]

Dear Orgazmus,

Stop assuming that all Americans are perpetually glued to the television. It is a problem in our country, I'll give you that. I also find that it is a problem in almost every country.

I'll get pissed on for using this analogy, but fuck it. It's like AIDS. It is a world wide problem, but it is much much worse in developing nations that lack the infrastructure et cetera that helps it spread. The TV/media problems are an epidemic in overly developed countries, but it is a global problem.

Everyone needs to think about shutting off their TV more.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[lionheart1327]

Just for reference, where have the common populace every been informed about their own laws?

Never, that's when.

The situation now sucks, but most likely its the best its ever been to date.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[GMFTatsujin]

It's too bad the Brits didn't have a Slashdot-alike back in the day!

They'd probably have called it "Slashpoint" or "Slantdot" something, given the minor linguistic hurdles between the UK and America. But at least there'd be somewhere to gain karma by grousing.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Tusaki]

Being European, I've modded this insightful. We have tons of ignorant people here too, the debacle which is called the "referendum" on the European Constitution proves that. Remind me to never be in favor of refendums again. If you are amazed by the stupidity of "the government", you havent experienced the collective wisdom of "the masses".

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[lescrimr]

"I hope not, I like to think that British norms are more informed than American norms (Though the results of our last election seem to suggest otherwise.)"

Why, who did you guys elect to be Queen?

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[syrion]

Slantfullstop: Information for Unsavvy Gents. Quintessence of quality.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[TapeCutter]

google for "oil for food scandal" - You must be kidding, half of that money went to US companies, the US knowingly allowed some of the "stolen" oil to pass through thier Naval blockade. All of the "facts" in the scandal were passed on to the security council at the time they occured. The US had plenty of opportunity to stop it but like the other veto-wielding members of the security council they deliberately ignored the warnings. The real scandal of the UN was the Rawanda massacre, this is when all of the world's leaders saw the slaughter of one million people happening before thier eyes and did .... nothing!

As I see it there are a couple of loudmouth politicians pushing an adgenda in the US. They blatantly pick and choose, (or invent), facts in the oil-for-food scandal and use them to call the kettle black. The probem with the UN is not corruption it is ineffectual because it is undemocratic and controlled by the winners of WW2.

You are spot on when you say "power comes from the people". Every ruler rules by the "consent" of the people (even Hitler & Stalin), get rid of the rulers and there is anarchy until someone steps up to fill the power vacum (ref: Iraq). This is not the planet I would choose to live on either but we have nobody to blame except our collective selves. Since the thought of bearing collective responsibility for the planets woes is repugnant to most, we simply choose to blame "the great satan", "the terrorists", etc, and hope they will go away.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[zotz]

That too, is beautiful.

Is the Canadian version for lumberjacks?

all the best,

drew

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Xyrus]

I'm hoping against hope that Joe and Jane Sixpak see RotS and realize that our country is beginning to follow in the footsteps of Palpatine's empire.

But the fact that we re-elected Bush really doesn't leave much room for this kind of hope.

~X~

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Xyrus]

"Stop letting TV control your view, and check things out for yourselves. It might be interesting to see what is going on outside of the living room."

You're missing the point. Americans don't want to know what's going on outside of their living rooms. Most of our populace has become so self-centered, so caught up in their own lives, that they don't know or care to know what's happening in their own country, let alone the world.

We have stories like "The Runaway Bride" and Jacko's trial taking top spots in the news instead of things like the Real ID act, human rights abuses, and the devastation and death caused in name of "fighting terrorism".

As long as something doesn't interfere with their daily lives, most people in the US just won't get riled up.

The founding fathers of this country would have laid down their arms and surrendered if they knew their hard work for our freedoms would have been cast aside so carelessy.

~X~

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[ScentCone]

I like to think that in the modern age, people are protected by bodies like the UN. It pisses me off when the governing bodies of countries like America ignore UN rules because they think they are above the international law. In a perfect world, no one would have such extreme power over anyone else...

Are you even listening to yourself? To translate: no one should have power over anyone else... except for the UN, which is made up of people, who would then have power over other people?

That would be the UN, which has done such a fabuluous job of protecting people in Africa? Or in preventing Iran for forging ahead with nukes? Or in helping the poor bastards living in North Korea? Or in stopping China from threatening Taiwan? Or which kept the Baltics all nice and tidy when the Serbs and the Croats blew up? Or the UN that did such a great job of making Saddam even richer as they put together a totally corrupt oil-for-food program? Ask the people living in Darfur how protected they're feeling.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[TapeCutter]

"The UN is corrupt because it's ineffectual"

Ineffectuall does not mean corrupt, you are parroting the "UN is corrupt" mantra that comes only from the mouths of some of your own politicians. I have no idea who ordered the tankers to be allowed to pass through the blockade and on to Turkey, but I doubt it was a corrupt individual in the UN. Also I do not think the US is soley to blame, the security council is to blame and they know it. Some have backed Kofi calling for reform of the council. The US has gone the other way and is running a transparent smear campaing against the UN and European anti-war politicians in a lame attempt to avoid responsibility and push thier own anti-UN agenda.

"re-evaluate your knee-jerk anti-American attitude"

My bias is not "anti-american" and has nothing to do with my knees, it is bias against the corporate stand over men that pretend to be a government "for the people". Given thier stunningly two-faced record it is perfectly rational for me to think this way.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[geminidomino]

Being European, I've modded this insightful.

And promptly undid your moderation by posting in the thread.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Kjella]

God, that patriot act of yours is darn scary. does anyone know if there is an equivilant in Britain?

Google for "Regulation of Investigatory Powers Bill"

It scares me that any body, even governments, can have such power. I like to think that in the modern age, people are protected by bodies like the UN

If they had that role, it would be just another question of "Who watches the watchers?". That is why most civilized countries have the division of power between legislative, executive and judicial branch, to maintain a system of checks and balances. Think of it as a very powerful version of rock-paper-scissors.

The worst thing you can do is to place power in an organization even more distanced from the people. Let me take an example: I live in Norway, an independent state not a member of the European Union. But over the last decade, we have passed 4500+ EU directives with NO exceptions. In theory, we can lay down a veto. In reality, the government can do some lobbying, so they have a slight power. And we get to cast a vote every 4 years, so we have some power over government. But multiply it together and you will see that we have essentially no influence on any EU directive.

As an example, the EUCD was passed in 2001 by the EU. It's not yet implemented in norwegian law, but no matter how much uproar there is over it now, it gets shrugged off by either "We are required to implement EU directives" or "You should have raised that critcism before it was passed by the EU". In 2001, maybe two beurocrats knew it even existed. The US rider bills doesn't even reach it to the kneecaps.

Kjella

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[thynk]

Well put and I have to agree.

Without the backing of US troops, has anything the UN decided on made a damn bit of difference to the world? If they have, it's fallen below the scope of my attention - which I will admit is somewhat limited at times.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[vigilology]

We need a +5: Irony mod.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[grandmofftarkin]

Don't you mean obliquefullstop.org?

P.S. There obviously isn't any obliquefullstop.org right now but I won't be shocked if one turns up in the next few days! ;-)

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Olix]

Heh - I guess I am still an Idealistic student. I can become old, bitter and mistrusting of the world in later life. Perhaps the best way to stop the erosion of civil liberties is to wrap every tiny process to change a law in so much bureaucracy that no one can actually do anything..

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[m50d]

We don't have a separate constitution. But we do have constitutional rights through various acts, common law, and Europe. The right to a competent speedy hearing to decide if your arrest is lawful, and proper defense and trial if it is, does exist in Britain, you just have to dig a bit deeper. It would be nice to have a single document we could point to, but we get by.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[legojenn]

Why, who did you guys elect to be Queen?

They elected Tony Blair. Due to the nature of Westminster Style Parliaments, you essentially have an elected King (at least for five years). This leaves the hereditary Queen free to tour her realms and try not to appear bored meeting people in the hinterlands. A party can win a majority with 30-40% of the popular vote. With a strong party whip and a majority in the House of Commons the elected King can force Parliament to pass any legislation he wants. Also, during his reign, Parliament has either passed or planning legislation to reduce the power of the House of Lords. (Items that come to mind are devolution to Scotland & N. Ireland, removal of hereditary peers, creation of a Supreme Court [removal of Law Lords] etc). In addition, I am not sure how selection of candidates for individual ridings work, but I assume that a leader can keep individual MPs in line by refusing to allow them to run for the party in the next election if they dissent.

As much as I am not totally happy with the choice of the UK (it doesn't matter, my family left England), Mr Blair was the pick of the litter box.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[XPACT]

I guess You mean Balkans not Baltics... :-))) Serbia and Croatia are located in Balkans.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[ScentCone]

I guess You mean Balkans not Baltics... :-))) Serbia and Croatia are located in Balkans

Exactly! See, if the UN was doing a better job, I'd know that!

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[Scudsucker]

Nonsense. Not that parties like the Democrats haven't had a role in passing draconian drug laws or passing laws like the Patriot Act, but it's conservatives who are toked on their idea of strong law enforcement, national security, and anti-immigration - and passing laws to advance those causes.

Re:Most people don't know any better...

[silentbozo]

Does anyone even watch (live) TV anymore? I know that I don't aside from catching the 3 minutes of weather on the tube in the mornings on occasion, or watching PBS on weekends. Everything else is either Netflix or ReplayTV. Heck, I even timeshift my radio programs. The only thing I spend time on on a regular basis is the newspaper (Wall Street Journal), which, unlike what people might think, is actually a very broad spectrum, 1st class paper. It's getting maybe a little TOO broad for my tastes (they're adding a weekend section come September), but the reporting is definitely worth reading on a daily basis.

Bit 'O Help, Please!

[Jerivix]

For those of us poor and uninformed monkeys who have never heard of elitetorrents, can someone please shed some light on how good the database was?

I know that nobody around here would ever download anything, but maybe somebody just took a quick "peek" or two. Or two hundred.

Re:This is treason on the part of our govt

[Reality Master 101]

Er, you want them tried in a court of law for... enforcing the law? Ooooookay.

If you don't like the laws, then work for change, but it's just stupid to blame law enforcement for doing what they're supposed to do.

And please learn what "fascism" and "treason" actually mean before you go throwing the words around.

The Cost of Idiocy

[CristalShandaLear]

Movie Tickets in my area $9.50
Amount of downloads: Aprox 10,000
Amount Star Wars grossed in just the first weekend: $158.5 million

I suppose that somehow, somewhere that extra $95,000 that they may or may not have made anyway is worth all this.

I'd bet that 9K out of the 10K downloaders actually paid to see the movie anyway.

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[Toxygen]

Hey, I'm one of those. I downloaded the torrent AND paid to see episode 3 in the theatre.

Don't discriminate. Support ALL our thieving organizations and associations.

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

I admit I downloaded this one. I don't live in the states and it usually takes at least a few months for new releases to get here and actually our only theater has been under contruction since last fall (damn hurricanes) so I have no idea if we'll ever get it in theaters.

IF it ever gets here I'll certainly see it in the theater. I don't feel too bad about this (first movie I've ever downloaded illegally).

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[That's Unpossible!]

I'd bet that 9K out of the 10K downloaders actually paid to see the movie anyway.

How many of the downloaders burned a copy for their friends?

How many of the downloaders burned dozens of copies and sold them on the streets of cities worldwide?

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[squatex]

Movie Tickets in my area $9.50
Amount of downloads: Aprox 10,000
Amount Star Wars grossed in just the first weekend: $158.5 million
The look on Georges face when he found out his new film was posted online: Priceless.

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[Jugalator]

How many of the downloaders burned a copy for their friends?

How many of the downloaders burned dozens of copies and sold them on the streets of cities worldwide?

What the hell... Going through the trouble of burning shitty workprint copies for your friends that looks like a 10 year old VHS tape quality-wise, with a huge counter in the corner.

Or even worse, trying to sell those copies?

I truly believe the amount of people doing this was neglible compared to those going with their friends to the theaters and getting it in top notch quality with surround sound, despite the cost.

I personally believe what hurt sales more are the DVD rips since they compete much better with DVD's from stores.

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[That's Unpossible!]

What the hell... Going through the trouble of burning shitty workprint copies for your friends that looks like a 10 year old VHS tape quality-wise, with a huge counter in the corner.

So set aside SWIII for a moment, and consider the rest of the content on Elite Torrents. Digital rips of HDTV quality broadcast TV shows with the ads stripped out for you. I admit, I've downloaded a few episodes from torrent sites when I fail to catch the original broadcast and there are no re-broadcasts scheduled. The quality is amazing.

I truly believe the amount of people doing this was neglible compared to those going with their friends to the theaters and getting it in top notch quality with surround sound, despite the cost.

Of course it was neglible. The movie grossed 300 million worldwide in the first WEEKEND. However, Elite Torrents was doing more than helping spread Ep 3.

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[0x000000]

The greasy old popcorn taht has been sitting there since two weeks ago? And nasty extremely sugarry pepsi? :puke: They don't get my money anyways.

This movie stunk in all regards, it was not even worth watching. I wish i could get my cash back.

Re:The Cost of Idiocy

[nzkbuk]

a more interesting question is howmany downloaded this expecting it to be as bad as the previous 2 saw that it was watch able and so went (or are going to go) to the cinema where they wouldn't have before.

nothing more than?

[C10H14N2]

Surely, you mean LESS than. I mean, oh pish, it's MERELY fascism, hon. Nothing to get riled up about... ;P

That said... well...

Anyone who really believes that this is just about distribution models, erm, I do hope you don't mind product-placement deals that make those of Austin Powers movies look subtle.

You haven't seen...

[Wrexs0ul]

You haven't seen the WMD that site was carrying, the sheer destructive force of bombs like this or this could bring the country to its knees. Only a preemptive strike prevents further damage from the radiating disease following these around.

-Matt

pwn3d

[d_jedi]

Now, they just need to get the logs, and prosecute all of the thieves (or "copyright infringers", if that helps you sleep better at night).

Re:pwn3d

[Travelsonic]

thieves (or "copyright infringers", if that helps you sleep better at night).

Yes thank you, it does make me sleep well at night knowing people know what the crime that was commited was copyright infringement.

Re:pwn3d

[d_jedi]

Different crime, same effect.. money out of hard working software developers etc. pockets..

You steal from me or you rip off my software.. you're still a scumbag who needs to be hunted down and sent to jail for a nice long stay in my book.

Re:pwn3d

[Legion303]

"You steal from me or you rip off my software.. you're still a scumbag"

What is your software? I'll let you know if I've downloaded it.

Re:pwn3d

[Travelsonic]

Different crime, same effect.. money out of hard working software developers etc. pockets..

100% incorrect way at looking at it... especially since you never had that money in the first place, and when I download, no money appeared on my desk.

You steal from me or you rip off my software.. you're still a scumbag who needs to be hunted down and sent to jail for a nice long stay in my book.

I agree that if you stea software from the story you deserve jail time... oh wait, you are talking about copying. What is it with people like you, where you have to make a accusing attitude, false analogies and emotionally loaded/factually incorrect terminology to make your points? As much as I think you shouldn't be ripped of IF you did a good enough job to ensure that the quality of the software was good, and that whatever demo you have available to others who are not ready to by it yet is also good enough, you really have to stop making false statements. "You steal from me or you rip off my software.. ." technically is a false statement in terms of what goes on in the idea of copying, since the "profits" you have claimed to have stolen, you didn't even have yet. Who the hell are you to say that you *will* make X ammount of money from software and making less than that makes people theives when (a) You don't even know how much money you will make for sure yet... and (b) the money that was "stoeln" you didn't even have yet?

As for being jailed... that is for the courts to decide, and not the over-emotional programmer. As much as I don't nessecarily agree with piracy (although there are *some* exceptions I can think of) This kind of attitude is as sickening as the RIAA/mPAA/BSA and *a catagory* of p2p downloaders,

elitetorrent.org shutdown? not!

[zerodevide]

Looks more like a DNS hack - follow the clues

Re:elitetorrent.org shutdown? not!

[chump1039]

fbi.gov, ice.gov also hacked

Some things are better the old way

[Oriumpor]

I'll say it again... alt.binaries.movies.divx

Re:Some things are better the old way

[value_added]

I'll say it again... alt.binaries.movies.divx

A mostly guaranteed unlimited stream of pure content that includes movies, images, music, whatever-you-can-think and stuff you-haven't-thought-of-yet, along with a wealth of specialised technical information and advice offered for free from a world-wide user base, all for an extra $9.95 extra per month?

Nah. No clicky links.

Since when

[FidelCatsro]

Since when it is the job of the Gouvernment to enforce civil cases outside of a court of (civil)law ,
You may or may not agree with the copyright violations , but i don't really see how anyone can justify this being handeld by criminal actions , Civil violations are not criminal .
Give me liberty or give me death.

Re:Since when

[taustin]

Title 17 defines criminal violations of copyright. Title 17, Section 506 says that any infringement for more than $1,000, commercial or not, (and any commercial infringement, regardless of value) is a criminal offense.

So, whether you see it or not, what is alleged is clearly criminal in scope.

Re:Since when

[FidelCatsro]

In scope yes , but I doubt anyone outside the industry would see it that way .
Im not suporting the violation , I just think criminal convictions are are OTT.

Re:Since when

[FidelCatsro]

The DHS can verrily go spin on it . The founding fathers penned the constituation of the USA for one reason , and that was to ensure the libertys of its citizens.
Yet of recent times the Gouvernment has sought ammendmant after ammendmant to spite that vision.
It was a vision of true freedom .What do laws that make the theft of ideas and works into criminal cases bring you but the missery and suffering of its peoples and the glory of the Industry.
I am not saying people should be allowed to break laws when it suits them , but there needs to be reason and logic to the laws that defend the rights of the individuals and the peoples as opposed to the big industry funded laws of today.
These sites should most likely be shut down , but that is it .

Re:Since when

[drew]

hardly. by the time slashdot started giving out user ID's at all it was already going downhill. the addition of user ID's and later the moderation system helped for a little while, but not much.

funny, if i had known then that low user ID's would someday be a status symbol, it wouldn't have been tough to get one in the 2 or 3 digits- i waited a couple of months after they introduced user ID's before I bothered to sign up for an account, as did most others at the time.

Re:Protect the users!

[Cmdr Whackjob]

Dear Sir,

Please may I direct your attention to www.jetable.org

Yours,

Cmdr Whackjob.

Newsgroups?

[Comen]

Why is it they always concentrate on things like this when we all know the newsgroups is where stuff is at, are the internet newsgroups so untouchable that they just dont even try to mess with them?

FBI Shot itslef?

[Chrish2]

Have any of you noticed the image thay have used a the top of the page? Now, im sure that is a copyrighted image. Remember FBI agents "It is unlawful to reproduce or distribute copyrighted material, such as images, without authorization - even when done for free over the Internet. Individuals who willfully distribute or download copyrighted material risk criminal prosecution under 18 U.S.C. 2319. First-time offenders convicted of criminal felony copyright laws will face up to five years in federal prison, restitution, forfeiture and a fine." Now also according to this i have comited a crime by viewing the page on the net that has a copyrighted image on that page SUE THE FBI - SUE THE FBI (lol)

Re:To quote the 'swiped' Star Wars...

[Paranoia Agent]

Yeah, cause not getting warez and pr0n is just like the whole universe being taken over by ruthless evil Jedi....

Homeland Copywrite Inforcement?

[FunkyMonkey]

I feel safe now.

What a rediculous and inappropriate waste of time and money!!

Even worse, I expect this kind of shit.

Re:Homeland Copywrite Inforcement?

[Trevahaha]

I thought that too because of its amateur look. But the FBI press release says otherweise. :(

SO.....

[anethema]

Does anyone know of a good quality similar site? One you sign up for and it tracks your ratio, time penalties for low ratios?

My ratio on ET was like 2:1 :(

Was such a good site, I'll miss you ET!

Yeah this is all fun n' games...

[barfy]

Until your Tivo barfs on the 2 hour finale of 24, 20 minutes before the end.

Now what do you want me to do? You bastards!

wtf

[forum__32]

Its a good thing they are using MS Word to edit the webpage, that makes it look real professional.

I for one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome our JOB PRODUCING overloards.

Star wars to blame?

[Szentigrade]

Is it possible that a copy of star wars was leaked early to spot the best site to take down? It is another sad day for BT, even more so then the takedown of suprnova. It will be missed.

Another One Bites The Dust

[donnacha]

Damn, I had a great ratio at ET!!

If they bust Empornium next, they'll completely ruin my sex life.

How difficult would it be to host these trackers in China or any other country that the neo-cons in Washington don't have against the wall?

Latency shouldn't be such a problem, all the tracker has to do is hook the users up.

Re:Another One Bites The Dust

[Anonymous Coward]

How difficult would it be to host these trackers in China or any other country that the neo-cons in Washington don't have against the wall?

The neo-cons? The neo-cons in general hate Hollywood. No, my friend, unfortunately for you its the Democrats that are really in the pocket of Hollywood.

Re:Another One Bites The Dust

[illumin8]

How difficult would it be to host these trackers in China or any other country that the neo-cons in Washington don't have against the wall?

Try The Pirate Bay... They seem to be located within a country that doesn't much care for US copyright laws. They also regularly post hilarious replies to legal takedown notices they receive...

YHBT. YWL. HAND.

[Trespass]

http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=801

Re:YHBT. YWL. HAND.

[siliconjunkie]

You may want to follow the link in the first line of the story which leads to the follow up.

Actually, your link is accurate, as long as you realize that it's ICE doing the "DNS hacking".

Re:This is treason on the part of our govt

[RealAlaskan]

THis action is nothing more than fascism, i.e., the corporate takeover of government.

Historically, Fascism has been government takeover of control of the corporations (it was distinguished from communism by the fact the Fascists didn't take over ownership). Notice that corporatism doesn't necessarily refer to corporations, but to:

... certain unelected bodies take[ing] a critical role in the decision-making process. This original meaning was not connected with the specific notion of a business corporation, being a rather more general reference to any incorporated body.

If you're going to call names, use the right ones.

These agents and their bosses should be tried in a court of law for treason,...

They'd be at the end of a long line, if this sort of thing were ever actually punished in the courts. The people who murdered Viki Weaver, and the people who murdered all those kids in Waco would all be in front of them. It'll never happen.

Ripoff?

[jfengel]

I know you're just making a joke, but I'm curious: in what way was Revenge of the Sith ripping people off? They made a movie, and they were hoping to sell tickets to it, and eventually sell DVDs. Are you saying that the price for a ticket is too high?

George Lucas sure will make a profit off that, but is all profit-making a ripoff?

Re:Ripoff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop making people think here! You can't think and jerk your knee at the same time!

Come on, get back into the /. groupthink:

corporations = evil
profits = evil
US government = evil
Microsoft = evil

Just keep saying it and pretty soon you'll feel a lot better!

Re:Ripoff?

[LordSnooty]

Maybe they think it stinks, like everyone else in the world over 16?

Re:Ripoff?

[Paradise Pete]

Try reading some Marx...

I did. He lost me when he said "How the proletariat got in my pajamas I'll never know."

Re:Ripoff?

[Dr. Evil]

Mass produced media has all but killed small theatres and live entertainment. Even the local jobs from Cinemas are near-minimum wage mcjobs, and even those are being replaced by machines. The Cinema operations are franchised so as to lock in who can operate the enterprise and how they operate it, and the distribution of film quality is even monitored to keep cinemas on their toes.

It's a vertical monopoly where studios own the cinemas and the distribution. Worse, the studios and cinemas collude to ensure minimum competition and maximum revenue from their films.

Blockbuster cinema houses starve out independent cinema houses, then for the mostpart refuse to air local content which might not fill the seats. It's a rape of our culture and funnels money out of the local economy and right into Hollywood.

The revenues are used to empower legal teams to change copyright legislation so as to artificially protect their intellectual property. The rights which copyright gave them to make their bililons of dollars is just not enough for them.

In a world of six billion people, we should see more films and creative content than ever in the history of the earth, but for some reason, all we care about is the production of a few films from these big corporations.

In other words, George Lucas is a role model for Americans to screw the little guy.

Re:Ripoff?

[BlogPope]

If only the Pope had some mod points

Re:Ripoff?

[gripped]

As per usual no mod points when I'd like to use one (+1 Insightful)

Re:Ripoff?

[KingSkippus]

...in what way was Revenge of the Sith ripping people off?

I actually liked Revenge of the Sith, so I let others argue over whether the ticket price was a ripoff to see that particular movie. :-)

However, I don't need to argue about that. I can think of a few other ways we're being ripped off pretty quickly:

• The studios diligently working to illegally take away my fair use rights of the movie.
• The studios screwing movie theaters by making unreasonable monetary demands of the theaters that show their movies during the opening weeks. (Thus forcing theaters to pass the cost on to us by making us finance popcorn if we actually want a snack.)
• The studios undermining my Constitutional freedom to copy the movie after a limited time.
• Imposing excessive fines and punishment on a minor crime when copyright violators are caught. (I can't dig up the link offhand that I saw comparing the punishment for downloading a movie vs. stealing it from a store. Can anyone else help?)
• The corporate executives at the studios screwing the vast majority of the people who worked on the film to keep most of the profit in the hands of a very small minority of people who did nothing to contribute to the film. (A big problem in big corporations, not limited to the film industry.)
• The studios working together to keep the prices of DVDs artificially high.

That's just off the top of my head. Anyone else care to add to the list?

So no, not all profit-making is a ripoff. But that doesn't change the fact that some of it certainly is. And no, illegally downloading and/or sharing movies isn't legal or ethical. But in the grand scheme of things, I think it's a hell of a lot less serious an offense than what the movie studios and especially the **AA are doing.

Re:Ripoff?

[Surt]

It's a ripoff when the advertising misleads you into paying to see a movie that turns out to be nothing like the clips, and in some cases not even to contain the clips. When you're dissatisfied with the product, there is usually no recourse, you can't get any of your money back.

Re:Ripoff?

[BasilBrush]

Fair comment. The trouble is that I'm not sure what people downloading the latest Hollywood blockbusters on Bittorrent, burning a DVD and then spending the night at home watching it are doing to help those local independant cinemas.

Re:Ripoff?

[mesach]

How about removing the brats that talk on thier cell phones, or throw things, use laser pointers, get up and leave, then come back and mess with thier friends.

People who bring baby's and toddlers to movies because they cant get a sitter that night.

The guy who translates the entire movie line by line for his spanish speaking family of 8 so they can see it in the theater.

How about removing those people, because they RUIN my $10/ticket movie going experience. Which in turn makes me download the movie and sit at home and watch in comfort. They arent losing ANY money because I didn't go to the theater and buy a ticket. I have no intention of going to theaters because of the 10% inconsiderate fucks in the world.

Re:Ripoff?

[KingSkippus]

<rant style="rant-type:soapbox;">

they can either become investors or quit

Okay, this is the last reply I'm going to post on this topic, because this is as close to a flame war as I want to get. If you want the last word, feel free to post a reply and I'll let everyone bask in your victory. I diligently try to avoid the soapbox like this, but man, you just caught me at just the wrong moment.

Your post is typical of someone who has had a relatively nice middle-class ride through life and doesn't truly know what it's like to be an ordinary working class schmoe. It's awful easy to say stuff like "become and investor" and "quit" when you have spare money to invest and could find another job relatively easily.

I'm guessing that you don't understand what it's like to have no spare money or to be forced to work a miserable job to keep food on the table because I'm guessing you can't relate. You think that you "pulled yourself up by the bootstraps" and "made yourself what you are today" because you went to college on your parent's dime and/or government-provided scholarship, grant, and/or student loan programs. If you lost your job today, I'm guessing you probably have money stashed away that you could fall back on, or at worst, a family that would find some way to take care of you. You think you've earned everything you have, and if someone else is poor, they're not unfortunate, they're just lazy because they didn't work as hard as you did.

Well, I've got some news; news that you will probably not believe because you've so successfully fooled yourself into believing that you've earned everything you have, but others reading will probably understand all too well. In America today, how hard you work has very little to do with how successful you are. I'm not saying the executives don't work hard, because a lot do. But they like to think that their sixty to eighty hours a week somehow entitles them to the lion's share of profit. Guess what: Sixty to eighty hours a weeks is a normal work week for a LOT of people who are barely making ends meet. In fact, some of the people in the corporate trenches would consider a sixty hour week a vacation.

These people would like nothing better than to find a good job somewhere else and quit, but the other company they go to will be just as bad, and they would lose any vested time in any pittance of a retirement plan they may have, vacation time they have built up for being at the company several years, and so on. So yeah, it's easy to armchair-manage people's lives, telling them to quit and lose what little they have for something worse, if you're not the one who will actually have to pay the price for it.

It's not like executives sit down with the grunts on the line and work out what everyone thinks is fair compensation for all employees. No, they TELL employees what they'll get, and that will be as little as they can get away with. These days, it's gotten even worse because many executives don't really even care about the long term well-being of the company, as long as they get their bonus this year and their golden parachute next year. As a general rule (exceptions are few and FAR between), the executives that can get away with screwing the employees the hardest will be the most lavishly rewarded for doing so. Why? It's built into the corporate culture. Their job is to maximize profit and minimize costs (i.e. things like salary and benefits for average schmoes). Being fair to the employees isn't part of the equation; in fact, it is a significant hinderance.

Bringing it back on-topic, most of the people working on the film AREN'T being paid what they're "supposed" to be paid. They're being paid the bare minimum they can be paid. Even though both are in a sad state under the constant attacks they've suffered lately, we fortunately have things like unions and liberals around to try to ensure that the bare minimum will at least allow these people to eat. They "signed up" for it not because it

Re:Ripoff?

[Matt_R]

How about removing the brats that talk on thier cell phones, or throw things, use laser pointers, get up and leave, then come back and mess with thier friends.

I didn't have any problems with laser pointers or cell phones. Just a couple of people with pretend light sabers.

Re:Ripoff?

[zotz]

That's beautiful.

all the best,

drew

Re:Ripoff?

[Sj0]

The phrase "raping childhood memories" comes to mind...

but I'm boycotting the whole industry, meaning I haven't watched any movies, illegal or otherwise.

Re:Ripoff?

[WRoach]

"[i]Are you saying that the price for a ticket is too high?[/i]" If movie.ticket.price > (movie.bytes * bandwidth.byte.cost Or personal.account.balance) then answer = True

Re:Ripoff?

[Ubergrendle]

This is of course COMPLETELY different from the studio system pre-WWII that persisted from silent to talkies to colour. Oh wait, no, its always been this way.

Good independent work will always come to the fore. When people started getting sick of John Wayne movies and musicals and yet another damn Rock Hudson movie, along came Coppola, Scorcese, DePalma, Polanski, etc to bust it wide open.

I figure we need another year or two of ABSOLUTE DRECK before studios will start taking chances again on new work. Lucas used to be the counter-culture rebel...who is going to overthrow him? its inevitable, sooner or later 'our' generation will come out with an alternative. (Hint: Watch movies by David Fincher, Spike Jonze, and Christopher Nolan to get a sense of the new post-modern digital film future)

Re:Ripoff?

[emcmanus]

No, you're wrong. Production houses don't have a vertical monopoly on the industry, as you state.

Yes, it used to be true that houses owned all of the theaters in which their movies were shown, but that ended in 1948 when an antitrust case was brought against paramount (U.S. vs. Paramount Pictures, et. al) causing them, and others in suit, to divest their theaters.

I'd like to also point out that all of your examples of the movie industry "robbing america of its right to culture" are not the result of an evil mastermind, but the American Free Market. It's simple economy of scale, and it's the reason that you're paying $3.99 for a movie that cost millions to produce.

A CRUCIAL part to any free-market is the protection of individual property rights, and as value is increasingly being assigned to intangible property, this includes intellectual property, too.

So yes, George Lucas IS a role model for Americans.

Americans, remember. Not socialists.

Re:Ripoff?

[Sj0]

HEY! Who do you think you are? This is slashdot, where you're supposed to make a short, vague, insubstantiated claim about how the man is trying to keep you down, or company X is evil! How are we supposed to bicker amongst ourselves like the spoiled children we are, happily ignoring the sinister truths of this generation and it's overlords, while you deliver well thought-out and incisive jabs at a new culture which says only juggernaughts which can provide bland goods and services without any particular positive or negative aspects are the only businesses who deserve to continue to run because they make the most money with the least capital!

Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that the McDonaldization of jobs is detrimental to the economy, and the outsourcing of jobs added to it has and will continue to erode everything which makes our countries great, as everytone is either a burger flipper or a businessman telling chinese workers how to do their jobs over a video conference!

Re:Ripoff?

[BasilBrush]

Yeah, they can certainly be annoying. And if that's how it is at your only local cinema, I can understand your reluctance. But I find, surprisingly, that behaviour varies at different cinemas. Maybe people behave differently when they are in a commercial multiscreen than when they are in more of a community cinema. Maybe the cinema that has the cheapest tickets attracts the low-lifes. Maybe some cinemas have ushers and others don't. Whatever causes the differences, it's worth trying out the different ones in the area.

Re:Ripoff?

[chris_eineke]

You just made a new friend. I wouldn't be able to put it like you did in my wildest dreams.

You get my respect.

Re:Ripoff?

[DarkEdgeX]

This post is the reason scoring should be able to go above +5.

Re:Ripoff?

[stubbs73nm]

I don't want my money back, I want my TIME back for a bad movie. Like the hitchhikers guide, can I have that wasted 2 hours back?

Re:Ripoff?

[Snaller]

So what you are really saying is, that people are unable to choose for themselve. Ergo someone needs to control how they choose - and that would be you perhaps? ;)

Re:Ripoff?

[Calyth]

I wonder if you'd say the same for Star Wars Episode 2 - Attack of the Clones.
With the prices of tickets at such lofty heights, many people feel that watching a crappy movie in the theatre would be a ripoff.
I hold the same opinion with most music CD already. I wouldn't mind the iTunes Music Store structure if they didn't use DRM. I think that's the right way to sell media nowadays

Re:Ripoff?

[Atanamis]

I'm guessing that you don't understand what it's like to have no spare money or to be forced to work a miserable job to keep food on the table because I'm guessing you can't relate.

I will admit to being the guy with the nice middle class ride through life to whom you refer. I have never in my life worked a minimum wage job, and the least I was ever paid was $6.25 an hour as a lab assistant in college. I have never had difficulty finding work as a soccer referee for over $15/hr on weekends, I have taken entry level grocery bagger positions for $9/hr and I have babysat for $7.50 an hour. During college I mostly worked internships at around $13/hr, which combined with $30,000 in government subsidized loans paid my tuition.

As bad as the school system is in this country, schools and public libraries offer sufficient resources for any interested person to obtain an education. I was homeschooled from K-12 grade, which meant that for the most part I taught myself. By buying used books online, you are looking at an investment of a couple hundred dollars a year. (And if you don't believe me I can put together a book list to show you.) It does not require a privleged middle class upbringing to obtain a quality education. I will agree though that for a kid whose parents don't really care, getting a quality education is much more difficult.

Obtaining a state college education is also not difficult for someone wanting to do so. My local state school has in-state education costs of under $500 a semester. Take your highly motivated examples who work two full time jobs. At $10/hr each job, that person is making about $40,000 a year. While $10/hr is high for starting salary, it is well within the reach of someone who is a good employee and is willing to relocate. Particularly if said party is willing to live in an inexpensive area (ie NOT San Francisco), they can very quickly have enough savings to go to school. If they can continue to work while in school, they may be able to avoid even needing much from their savings.

The real way a person gets into an untenable position is by making poor decisions. Not obtaining a quality high school education is the first mistake most people make. They then follow this by getting married or having kids they can support that family. Our society is unwilling to wait for anything or plan for the future. A person cannot end up a single mother with 3 kids working a minimum wage job without making some stupid decisions. While I do believe we should help such people recover from those mistakes, your claims that people aren't at fault for where they are in life just do not reflect the facts.

Re:Ripoff?

[mesach]

Actually this is in Rancho Palos Verdes the only theater in the area that doesn't smell like piss, and these kids have more disposable income then some foreign countries, so they think they can get away with anything.

The only time I go to the theater any more is to goto the Arclight and i think that the area and cost of the ticket keep most people from messing around.

Re:Ripoff?

[PerlDudeXL]

it is. somehow.

the distributor (20th Century Fox) is dictating on how many screens the movie has to be shown in a cinema and that customers can't use the free ticket discounts (see 6 movies, 7th for free).

this behaviour is at least true for my local multiplex cinema and probably others in Germany.

Re:Ripoff?

[michaelhood]

I agree whole-heartedly with the bulk of this post. However, I must take issue with this:

most of the people working on the film AREN'T being paid what they're "supposed" to be paid. They're being paid the bare minimum they can be paid.

How do you define what "supposed to be paid" is? Isn't the value of something whatever the market is willing to bear? This is basic economic theory. If these people are offering such a service that cannot be replaced for cheaper, then they can simply demand more. If they're replaceable for a certain amount, then that is what the market is willing to bear and thus the value of that commodity. A free market creates such balances that the economic value in something is defined by its ability to generate income. If the same income can be generated for less expenditure, the market will yield to that.

Re:Ripoff?

[kfg]

I notice that means you hung on through the shooting 'em part. :)

KFG

Re:Ripoff?

[KingSkippus]

Okay, I'll reply once, but only as semantic clarification, not to try to further fan any flames...

That's why I put quotes around the word "supposed." It's the parent post's word that I borrowed. My point was that there is no amount of money that a worker is "supposed" to get paid, and that executives and the corporations they work for in general drive the amount as low as possible. Because they have to eat, workers have no counteracting power to force the amount up, except what is provided to them by means of liberal legislation and unions. (Oh, and to quit, of course, which was discussed in my original post.)

That's one of the failings of the free market in this country. As it exists, it is geared to benefit the rich and powerful. It's not really a free market when executives engage in deceptive practices, when corporations own the government, when laws and regulations supress consumers' rights, and so on. Where I work, there are--

Ack, I almost got going again. I must hit the Submit button quickly to resist further temptation! Maybe I'll take more thoughts offline and post them to my blog.

Re:Ripoff?

[serutan]

I would say that when a 7-billion-dollar industry can buy legislation to dictate how a trillion-dollar-economy is allowed to use technology, somebody's definitely getting ripped off.

Re:Ripoff?

[jonhuang]

Maybe they think it stinks, like everyone else in the world over 16?

But they want to see it anyway?

Re:Ripoff?

[thynk]

You just stated all the reasons why I still love my local drive in and continue to support it as best I can. I don't even sneak food into the place because I know that they stay in business by thier food sales.

Oh, that and when it's the just the wife and I, she thinks it's kinky to play around or get busy in the back seat like we're a couple of teenagers.

Re:Ripoff?

[thynk]

Ok, so I disagree with almost everything you said in your post, and think that those who claim it to be brilliant must have an IQ close to that of your average house plant.

I do however respect your right to your point of view and you put your thoughts forth in an organized manner. I was able to clearly understand your point of view, and that generally is the point of communication (even on /.)

I could go on for hours and hours with the flaws of unions and liberal philosophies, but it's really not worth the effort. Let me just say that they both had a place and a time when they were useful and needed, but that time has passed.

corporations are antithetical to values that most people consider good qualities: fairness, sharing, caring, and that other kumbaya stuff that you probably would like your kids to learn.

Sure, I'd love my kids to learn that stuff. In fact, I've been teaching them that their whole lives. However, they also are learning that they need to work for what they want, they are learning that rewards only go to those who are willing to take the risks to get them. They are also learning that it's wrong for a government to do for the people what they can do for themselves.

I have no clue to your background, nor do you have any clue to mine. I suggest that further discussions be taken offline, I'd be happy to discuss philosophies with someone as rational as yourself.

Re:Ripoff?

[nahpets77]

Don't forget about all this free-trade stuff with China and other 3rd world countries that allows Walmart to manufacture stuff in China for cheap and sell it here for a huge profit. This replaces well-paying jobs with McJobs. I'm gonna stop there before I go on ranting. There's an episode of FrontLine that asks "Is Walmart Good for America?" (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wal mart/)

Re:Ripoff?

[killjoe]

"My local state school has in-state education costs of under $500 a semester."

Obviously that does not include the books right? And BTW WOW, what state do you live in where school is that cheap?

Anyway here is a question for you, please answer honestly if you are capabable of it.

Did you pay 100% of your schooling? By that I mean you received 0% of your education costs from your parents. If you got loans that's OK, you can also count grants as being "your money".

"'Not obtaining a quality high school education is the first mistake most people make."

Yes, it's a bitch when you live in some inner city to get a quality high school education.

"The real way a person gets into an untenable position is by making poor decisions."

Nah, it's all circumstance. I am a nice white boy who grew up in the suburbs. Like most nice white boys I drank and smoked dope when I was in high school. Lucky for me I lived in the suburbs where the cops were not constantly patrolling the neighborhoods. Also lucky for me I could drive my dad's car out to the "woods" where we could party safely away from the law. My friends who lived in the city didn't have that luxury, they drank and toked in the alleys of heavily patrolled areas. More then one of them got caught and one ended up in jail because of it. Too bad he didn't live where I did, now he has a record and will never get a decent job.

Being a nice white boy also saved me when I got caught for shoplifting once. The cop looked me over and decided to let me got with a stern warning and a call to my parents. If I was a nice black boy I am pretty sure the cop would want to scare me straight and haul me off to jail.

Trust me being a nice white boy has million other advantages, I am grateful for every single one of them. If it wasn't for my parent's money, my well appointed high shcool in a upper middle class neighborhood, my access to first class libraries, teachers, books, I would not be where I am today. I would probably be just another statistic, black man with a record.

Re:Ripoff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans, remember. Not socialists.

Last time I checked, the two were orthogonal. Being an American is almost always an accident of birth. Being a socialist is almost always a purely personal decision made by an adult after considering the competing merits of various political philosophies.

As such, George Lucas is not a role model for Americans - he is a role model for capitalists.

Re:Ripoff?

[servognome]

You think that you "pulled yourself up by the bootstraps" and "made yourself what you are today" because you went to college on your parent's dime and/or government-provided scholarship, grant, and/or student loan programs

If you went to college on goverment provided scholarship, you earned that money through hard work studying; if you went the student loan route you took a risk invested in yourself.
It is self righteous blue collar nonsense that college kids don't know what it's like to work 2 jobs to make ends meet. Many people when they go to college basically have 2 jobs, except they only get paid for one of them

I'm not saying the executives don't work hard, because a lot do. But they like to think that their sixty to eighty hours a week somehow entitles them to the lion's share of profit. Guess what: Sixty to eighty hours a weeks is a normal work week for a LOT of people who are barely making ends meet. In fact, some of the people in the corporate trenches would consider a sixty hour week a vacation.

Yes but what that executive accomplishes in 60 hours produces much more results than what a waiter accomplishes in 60 hours.

It's not like executives sit down with the grunts on the line and work out what everyone thinks is fair compensation for all employees

They put your salary on a piece of paper, if you agree you take the job, if not you don't take it. They don't force you to work.

Their job is to maximize profit and minimize costs (i.e. things like salary and benefits for average schmoes). Being fair to the employees isn't part of the equation; in fact, it is a significant hinderance.

Yeah and the employee just wants to maximize his salary. Another job down the street offers him more he is going to take it. Identify areas where you can invest in yourself to become more valuable.

Bringing it back on-topic, most of the people working on the film AREN'T being paid what they're "supposed" to be paid.

This is just a sense of entitlement, a lighting guy says he deserve $X, except that there are like 20 others who will accept less than $X, why should he get paid what he wants... just because he said so? Why should he even be able to make a good living in lighting just because that's the job he wanted? Work out of love for the job or work for money, if you can get both you're very lucky.

Re:Ripoff?

[damsa]

It's not a vertical monopoly, as the Feds stopped this practice many years ago. Some say the problem is because there is no monopoly as in the old days, films were released for months at a time, nowadays you are lucky to get two weeks at a first run theater.

Also George Lucas works out of the Studio system. Lucas makes the movies, Fox distributes. In some ways he is just the most successful indpendent movie maker. If Star Wars franchised failed, then he can't make more movies. If a movie by Disney failed, they can make more movies. Also Lucas corporations are not publically traded companies. So it's not big business in the sense Sony or Fox is.

I don't even think Lucasfilm is part of the MPAA.

Re:Ripoff?

[BlueHands]

It is funny how a person's bias can show and they aren't aware of it.

As bad as the school system is in this country, schools and public libraries offer sufficient resources for any interested person to obtain an education. I was home schooled from K-12 grade, which meant that for the most part I taught myself

Home schooled? You mean you had an adult who didn't have to work but could stay home?

So many aspects of what "class" you live in change what sort of life you have. The sad fact is that social mobility has been dropping in the country for years and it doesn't look like that trend is going to end. You think that is based solely on the wisdom of the people involved? So the wise choice is to be born to wealthy parents?

Re:Ripoff?

[Fred_A]

I hate those. Especially since those gadgets are usually sound enabled as well :(

Someone ought go see them with a real saber (no, no light involved)...

Re:Ripoff?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> Last time I checked, the two were orthogonal.
> Being an American is almost always an accident
> of birth

Actually:

1. America has the biggest lines to get into our country from basically all other countries.

2. These countries are frequently socialist because hard working people want to get away from the dragging economies of same.

Oops! Shot down your fantasized rhetoric. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

Re:Ripoff?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> Yes, per the Slashdot manual, Making a Profit = Evil

Unless it's the huge honkin' profits called "a programmer's salary".

Then greed is Good!

Re:Ripoff?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> The studios diligently working to illegally
> take away my fair use rights of the movie.

How do you have any "fair rights" to a movie in first release?

> The studios screwing movie theaters by making
> unreasonable monetary demands

The theaters, by agreeing, agree its not unreasonable.

> The studios undermining my Constitutional freedom

Talk to your congressman. Live by the populist sword, die by the populist sword.

> Imposing excessive fines and punishment
> [geek.com] on a minor crime when copyright
> violators are caught

"But your honor, I only released one virus into the population. I had no idea it would multiply and multiply!"

Puh and leeze.

And in the final run, how are people creating entertainment and selling it for as much as they can get ripping you off?!?!?!?!?

Perhaps a "system" where the only movies made were government-approved ones, at government-approved prices, made by government-assigned people would clear this up?

Or are you trying to get the benefits to creativity that freedom provides without allowing the attendant freedom of people to pursue their own economic decisions as well?

Re:Ripoff?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Uhhhh, if everyone here has a McJob and can barely afford dry dog food for their cereal, who's paying the outrageous prices of Wal Mart?

Ummmm, if you don't like Wal Mart, stop going to Wal Mart! Nobody says you have to buy giant two-packs of Doritos which are just two single bags with some tape around them.

Do any of you sit and listen to your rhetoric and try to think thru to the logical consequences? To what it would imply reality is like? As compared to what reality actually is like?

Re:Ripoff?

[sud_crow]

The guy who translates the entire movie line by line for his spanish speaking family of 8 so they can see it in the theater. I guess thats because they dont display subtitled versions in the USA and there is no way for no-english talking persons to watch a movie at a theather. Anyway, although i agree with some of your "comments", i think you are a bit exaggerated. Just go tell them to shut up/stop, i know i do it.

Re:Ripoff?

[sud_crow]

But they want to see it anyway?

If so many people are going to see it, it must be good!, TV says its good!. We must see it. ps: Whats the thing with this new "you are not a scripty kiddy creation?" damn it, at least make the freakin letters readable.

Re:Ripoff?

[JeremyGL]

I think you missed the point or didn't understand the word orthogonal.
Orthogonal, in this context, meaning unrelated the previous poster's point was that being American has nothing to do with ones political viewpoint, be it socialist or capitalist.

There are (shockingly :-) ) both American socialists and American capitalists,

Jeremy

Re:Ripoff?

[Dr. Evil]

I was exaggerating half-truths, but you're doing the same.

Yes the vertical monopoly is not complete, but there is a reason that small movie houses can't do first-run films. And there's a reason why one big chain cinema will not run the same films as another big chain cinema.

$3.99? That's a half-truth. It's "cheap" but not that cheap. Tickets and snacks for two can easily run $40-$50 CDN. Small live theatre, music performances or sports games run about the same and real people are doing real things in real time.

Intellectual property rights are necessary, but they have been extended unreasonably. I think that's clear to anyone.

Yeah, there's nothing terribly wrong with George Lucas, he's screwing the little guy, but he's just a cog in the wheel of a system that even he's powerless to change. That was a half-truth.

Re:Ripoff?

[Destoo]

Hot grits/Natalie Portman

Back in the day, an anonymous troller (aka the "hot grits guy") would post a reply to every story with a simple "I have poured hot grits down my pants. Thank you." While he mostly got modded down as a troll, the hot grits guy is really the first recurring troll on Slashdot.

Natalie Portman is a popular target for this troll. When referring to her, they frequently profess their endless love for a statue of the naked and petrified actress, preferably covered in hot grits. Naked and Petrified is now such an infamous troll that it virtually epitomizes Slashdot trolling, and is often referred to and parodied in Slashdot comments. Other incarnations of the troll suggest that Natalie Portman pour hot grits into their (the trolls') underwear.

Re:Ripoff?

[nahpets77]

Walmart is just an example of what's going on in terms of free-trade etc. Huge corporations are making outrageous profits while paying employees here and abroad as little as possible. If you take the time to watch the Frontline episode, it might change YOUR view of what reality is like.

Re:Ripoff?

[Paradise Pete]

I notice that means you hung on through the shooting 'em part. :)

Here I am trying to have a nice peaceful breakfast and there you go making me laugh. :-)

Re:Ripoff?

[hesiod]

> think cream of wheat, only its corn.

and it tastes like the corns you find on old peoples' feet.

Re:Ripoff?

[kfg]

How fortunate that there is no Sanaty Claus.

KFG

Re:Ripoff?

[KlomDark]

See this for more info:

http://klomdark.servebeer.com:443/MessageBase2/Rea dMessage.aspx?MsgNum=168

Re:Ripoff?

[Anonymous Coward]

The real way a person gets into an untenable position is by making poor decisions. Not obtaining a quality high school education is the first mistake most people make. They then follow this by getting married or having kids they can support that family. Our society is unwilling to wait for anything or plan for the future. A person cannot end up a single mother with 3 kids working a minimum wage job without making some stupid decisions. While I do believe we should help such people recover from those mistakes, your claims that people aren't at fault for where they are in life just do not reflect the facts. Total bullshit. As the grandparent said you've never been there, and you'll never understand. Maybe if you _TRIED_ to understand you might, but you're biased and it shows.

So let's see, I got my high school degree, graduated with honors. I got my bachelor's in computer science, graduated Cum Laude even. I was inducted into no fewer than six honor societies from diverse disciplines (how many CS majors do you know who were inducted into the International History Honor Society?) I was able to get loans and grants that covered most of my school expenses, and did regular consulting to help cover the missing amount. (Even qualified for complete financial assistance, grants, loans & scholarships together don't always pay for everything, particularly books which seem to get more and more expensive.)

I got a decent job after graduation and then two years later, about the time the dotcom bubble crashed I suddenly lost it due to cost cutting. I didn't work for a company BTW, but for the university I had graduated from as a sysadmin over an entire department. That year our state closed down for a week over the problems with sorting out the budget, and a month later (STILL having no budget for the current fiscal year) the university started laying off staff. Perhaps if I'd been faculty I'd have been ok.

So I start looking for another job. I have education, experience and should be highly marketable right? Wrong. In two _YEARS_ of job hunting in my field I was only called in for interviews at two places. I was over qualified for most of the work so I suspect they assumed I would want more than they were willing to pay and just trashed my application. Moving from this area was not a realistic option, I have some major health problems and being somewhere without friends or family reasonable close that can come to assist me could be fatal.

So after spending two years only being able to find a job at Wal-mart my bills (all medical) are sky-high. That's even with my managing to pay the full premium and keeping my former insurance under COBRA. Granted that took up nearly my whole paycheck each month, but losing health insurance was also not an option. I've had my current job for a year, it looks like it'll take me 2-3 more years just to get all the old medical bills paid down, much less to be able to save or invest.

So you can take your "The real way a person gets into an untenable position is by making poor decisions." rhetoric and shove it up your ass. Unless you're trying to say that my studying hard, working hard, getting good grades, getting a degree, getting work experience while getting that degree and getting a job afterwards was somehow "poor decisions" that led to my unexpected job loss. I seriously doubt you can do that though as your post tries to claim that the people in "untenable position[s]" are ones to fail to do all of the above.

Frankly you'll never understand this until something similar happens to you and you're forced to discover the hard way that life isn't as rosy as you think it is. I fervently hope you never get to find out though, it's not a fun experience. You _COULD_ try being a bit understanding, but apparently that's below you and your values. I think that says a lot more about you than it does anyone else.

Re:Ripoff?

[Maestro4k]

This is just a sense of entitlement, a lighting guy says he deserve $X, except that there are like 20 others who will accept less than $X, why should he get paid what he wants... just because he said so? Why should he even be able to make a good living in lighting just because that's the job he wanted? Work out of love for the job or work for money, if you can get both you're very lucky. But if this is the case then it's the market of available people willing to do lighting work that decides what they are paid, and piracy of the final product doesn't come into play. By your logic the studios can't pay less than the minimum acceptable amount (which will be defined by the lowest amount that any one individual in this pool of lighting folks will accept) so piracy is irrelevant to what they get paid. Yet the movie industry claims differently. By the time a movie is completed and can be pirated all the "little folks" have been paid for their work. The piracy only cuts into the profits that the _studio_ and probably executives there get, not what the people doing the manual labor get.

Basically if downloading a movie costs anyone anything, it's the executives who are losing money. Of course that wouldn't have as much of an emotional reaction as claiming some poor lighting guy is losing out. The movie studios are great at marketing and spin, and this is a prime example.

Re:Ripoff?

[Dr. Evil]

People are righteous jerks in some cities.

I think before they realized that $5 popcorn couldn't fund projectionists, they got rid of the ushers... and now most of the ticket sales too.

All that's left is custodians, "managers" and token salespeople guarding felt rope.

Some day the cinemas will hose themselves down with robot arms between showings and have subway-like turnstiles with bill-readers at the cinema door. Films will load digitally from a satellite feed. Then you can just have a security company watch the place with a camera and call the police if somebody vandalizes something, starts a fight, gets lewd or whips out a camcorder.

Now if they can find a way to avoid contracting out the construction to local businesses, it would have absolutely no bennefit to the local economy.

Re:Ripoff?

[stry_cat]

Mass produced media has all but killed small theatres and live entertainment.

That's b/c no one wants to waste their time in a crappy small theater or watch a bad performance live. The free market kills off these inferior forms of entertainment and I say it is a good thing.

Re:Ripoff?

[Nevyn]

I could go on for hours and hours with the flaws of unions and liberal philosophies, but it's really not worth the effort. Let me just say that they both had a place and a time when they were useful and needed, but that time has passed.

Wow ... "liberal philosophies" are no longer needed. If only someone had sent me an email. I assume your point was that unions aren't "needed" anymore, but yet I also assume you'd think that large multi-national companies are a wonderful thing?

If not, they yeh I'll agree we'd probably be better off without either large companies or unions ... but we'd also be better off if we could fly like Peter Pan, and have about as much chance.

Re:Ripoff?

[Intrinsic]

Why should he even be able to make a good living in lighting just because that's the job he wanted? Work out of love for the job or work for money, if you can get both you're very lucky.

This all comes down to your perception of how you look at life, if you want to believe that people get lucky thats your business, but the fact is that we all create our own realities. Information * Focus = Your personal Reality. There isn't any luck involved. When you are open to what life has to offer you (Bad times or good) then you will accomplish the most cherished goal everyone is striving for. Happiness. As long as you have that nothing else matters, and you don't need a 6 figure salary to get it. Most people that are extremely rich look like the have great lives, if you take a closer look, you will find that most live lives of quite desperation.

Re:Ripoff?

[servognome]

There are, say, 20 qualified people willing to do the same executive job. According to your reasoning, the one willing to do the job for the least pay should be selected

Yes that would happen if all 20 were equally qualified. Rarely, if ever, would there be that many people equally qualified for a specific executive position. The hiring company may emphasize revenue growth, or stability, or leadership towards innovation. So maybe, you have 2 or 3 candidates. Of course because the labor pool is so small; and employees are conversely wage maximizers, the executive salary would be inflated.
Average lighting guys have lower salary because there are many of them (actors getting cash between gigs, people just trying to get into the biz, etc). I'm sure there are some who have extended their abilities not only lighting, but have shown artistic ability using lighting to create particular effects. This makes them more valuable, as a director may want a certain "look." Since the pool of candidates who have demonstrated that ability is smaller those people would command higher salaries.

What makes executives more deserving of an inflated paycheck than a worker?

The value added of that person's abilities. Same reason a foreman gets more money, the ability to lead a group of workers is more rare and valuable than simply the ability to work.

Re:Ripoff?

[servognome]

I agree. Luck probably isn't the best term. I was just referring to people who follow their passion lead special lives. They realize it isn't about money, it's about doing things with passion. Often times if you are great at something, money will follow.

Re:Ripoff?

[lilpep100]

I don't see why someone should not be allowed to freely download a movie. I personally do go to the movies to watch something if it looks interesting. If I like it, and download it to watch again, then how is that hurting anyone? Are people to shell out money to see the same movie in a thater 5 times? If it's really good, I will even buy the DVD. So, I don't see anything wrong with watching a movie that you've already paid to see. It's not immoral, unethical and should not be a reason to imprison anyone. It's also a good way to preview a movie you arent sure about. I know I can't ever have my money back for "Punch Drunk Love". Making people pay for crap like that... now thats unethical. My 2 cents.

Re:Ripoff?

[mink]

If your from the south you eat em with salt and or cheese.
If your from the north then you eat em with pancake syrup.

Fuck...

[Ka D'Argo]

That's great, the man sticking it to us poor folks yet again. And I loved Elite Torrents :( Awesome place for Trek stuff

MM... looks strange

[xtracto]

Some questions, why does the DHS and FBI signs are from the elitetorrents.org site??

FBI:
http://elitetorrents.org/Shut%20Down%20By%20FBI%20 AND%20ICE_files/image002.gif
http://elitetorrents.org/Shut%20Down%20By%20FBI%20 AND%20ICE_files/image006.gif

So they shut it down, and the ip is:
192.31.21.68

And although ping do not respond. Who is throws:
OrgName: San Diego Supercomputer Center
OrgID: SDSC
Address: P.O. Box 85608
City: San Diego
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 92186
Country: US

NetRange: 192.31.21.0 - 192.31.21.255
CIDR: 192.31.21.0/24
NetName: SDSC-APOLLO
NetHandle: NET-192-31-21-0-1
Parent: NET-192-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Assignment
NameServer: DNS1.SDSC.EDU
NameServer: NS0.SDSC.EDU
Comment:
RegDate:
Updated: 1994-12-20

TechHandle: TH60-ARIN
TechName: Hutton, Thomas
TechPhone: +1-858-534-5136
TechEmail: hutton@sdslug.org

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2005-05-24 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
interesting domain no?

Sure, this is important

[suitepotato]

From TFA:
"Our goal is to shut down as much of this illegal operation as quickly as possible to stem the serious financial damage to the victims of this high-tech piracy -- the people who labor to produce these copyrighted materials," said John Richter, acting assistant attorney general in the Justice Department.

Absolutely. We all know people like George Lucas, Ben Stiller, Tom Sizemore, etc. are just dying of starvation. Why just the other day, I heard someone was going to sue this bum they tripped over on Ventura Boulevard, but they decided it would be a waste of time when they saw it was Jim Carrey. Supposedly Robert DeNiro is down to his last penny thanks to torrents.

That's our government, ready to execute multi-state raids to keep the rich as they are. But do basic detective work to track down household burglars and recover your stolen property? Fark no...

Re:Sure, this is important

[hosecoat]

Our goal is to shut down as much of this illegal operation -- the people who labor to produce these copyrighted materials -- as quickly as possible to stem the serious financial damage to the victims of this high-tech piracy

now it sounds like an endosment freedom.

Re:Department of Shitty HTML involved?

[Anonymous Luddite]

>> Look at EliteTorrents.org

Sweet mother of God, what an ugly page. View source and it gets even scarier...

xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smartt ags"

I need to wash my eyes now.

Interesting Verbage.

[Orcspit]

I find the specific words the author of that article used to be kinda interesting.

"Federal agents launched a crackdown on users of a popular new technology used to steal the latest "Star Wars" movie..."

Download instead of "steal" would have worked fine in that sentance. I guess steal just conveys a more sinister idea. Like roaving bands of junky Bit Torrent users are going to break into your home at any moment. The will "steal" anythign to get their fix!

"Within 24 hours, more than 10,000 copies of the "Star Wars" film had been swiped."

Ahh yes "swiped" the files were swiped from the servers, depriving the poor innocent children of their Star Wars!

I really hate CNN, they are getting as bad as Fox News.


-Orcspit

Re:Interesting Verbage.

[Dachannien]

I really hate CNN, they are getting as bad as Fox News.

Really? Then you might be interested in actually reading the article on Fox News's website - an Associated Press article that doesn't use the term "swiped" at all, and only uses "theft", "thieves", and "stealing" in the midst of quotes by Dan Glickman and somebody at DoJ.

Re:Interesting Verbage.

[gorbachev]

You're surprised a media company, i.e. a major owner of copyrighted material, uses verbiage consistent with the positions of copyright owners' lobbyists (RIAA/MPAA)?

Re:Interesting Verbage.

[st0rmshad0w]

I really hate anal Slashdotters that launch a huge drawn out argument over little insignificant symantecs. Stealing vs. infringement, who gives a fuck! This is one big reason why nerds are socially ostracized; they sit and argue nit picky little things like this that nobody else gives a shit about.

Except maybe the courts, lawyers, politicians, corporate leaders etc.

Re:Interesting Verbage.

[Lothar 0]

Because CNN and Time Warner have no interest in making movie downloading as unattractive as possible, and have no intent to word their stories that put the worst possible slant on torrent users, No siree, Bob.

The fewer pirates will offset the new income...

[Pacifix]

How many people would have paid to see SW:III on opening night if they could download it, in order to avoid the lines? How many then would have paid again to see it in the theater to see in in full special effects glory? How many people now just buy their music from iTunes rather than pirate it, simply because it's easier? The huge gains media companies can reap from modern distribution would substantially lessen and offset the losses from piracy.

Re:The fewer pirates will offset the new income...

[rhuntley12]

A lot. My work is full of people who either have seen it or are going to this weekend. There are also a few cd copies floating around that haven't been watched by those who hadn't seen the movie yet.

Me? I dont plan on seeing it at all so doesnt matter. If I ever did see it, it would be downloaded as I have no desire to = Not a lost sale

The copies floating around = not a lost sale, here anyway.

Light Saber Building Instructions Here

[davidwr]

Thanks to the good folks at How Stuff Works.com, the terrorists already know how to build a light saber.

The good news is that the info won't do them much good, as you have to have a strong affinity with The Force to actually build one. However, that small fact probably won't stop the Dept. of Homeland Security from taking action.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)

[westlake]

I definately feel safer knowing that DHS is tackling major problems like downloading movies.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement was folded into the DHS.
Investigations into money laundering. the illegal trade in arts and antiquities, intellectual property crimes with an international dimension, are all part of the job. ICE Internet Home Page

I concur. This is crap.

[ThoreauHD]

Knowing that 30 percent of my salary goes to these assclowns pisses me off to no end. To the joker's in that division of the FBI, get a real fucking job and soon.

Corporations are not people. Information cannot be owned. Republic's are formed to protect people's lives and property. A torrent file is not somebody's property. Do your fucking jobs and keep people from killing Americans first.

the only cure is a bullet

[bohemian_observer]

...and I identified them, Yes!, Those fools
that spread disease called "file sharing"
to empty headed dreamers, impotent earners and horny students
the only cure is a bullet, thats the best way to cure us off these idiots

taken from Fuhrer's speach
Muchen year of our lord 1932

MOD AC up!

[Infonaut]

The FBI was not founded to stop Communism, though of course it became involved in rooting out suspected Communists later.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[EnronHaliburton2004]

If you're an American, you really need to know this. There's really no excuse considering the hundreds of news stories that have covered this issue over the last several years.

The government underwent a massive reorganization in the last two years. 22 agencies-- including big departments like the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Coast Guard, Customs, and FEMA; have all been moved to, or are in the process of being moved to the DHS.

This is a BIG change... it's the most signifigant restructuring of the US government in the last 50 years.

You really, really need to know this stuff.

BitTorrent Misconceptions

[ndansmith]

BitTorrent, described as Hollywood's version of the Napster scourge that rocked the music industry several years ago, has become an increasingly popular way for Internet users to get movies, songs, and video games.

It seems that the media in general does not really understand how the BitTorrent protocol works. Most of the time I hear BitTorrent spoken of as a singular entity, BitTorrent (TM), not unlike Napster was, in spite of the fact that this simply isn't the case (think of all the different BitTorrent clients, for example). This is quite unfortunate for the BitTorrent developers whose brilliant technology is being portrayed as another avenue for petty theft. I wish that the media could be better informed as to the nature of BitTorrent so as to not give the technology a black eye in the ring of public opinion.

Re:BitTorrent Misconceptions

[Travelsonic]

This is quite unfortunate for the BitTorrent developers whose brilliant technology is being portrayed as another avenue for petty theft.

P>The media not understanding how BitTorrent works is one thing I will never agree with, but the term "petty theft" was applied not only by the feds and media people(s) who mis-understand the technology, but the feds and media people(s) who know the crime was copyright infringement, but though these inaccurate terms were better for publicitity insetad of being truthful.

Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[reallocate]

Not only are you Canadian, you're a loon.

Just how is anyone selling anything ripping off anyone? No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

Since most of the /. crowd really only cares about movies and throwaway music and other luxuries, maybe they ought to get a clue and realize that the way to thwart the Big Evil Corporate Bogeymen is to stop buying the stuff.

Smacks more than a bit of the obese bitching that Big Macs cost too much.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[WxHerris]

Well the mpaa is assuming that everyone that pirated the movie would havae bought the movie.

That's how they get the inflated numbers for losses.

Since they are losing money from people that never bought the movie then if you look at it side ways they are forcing people to buy the movie that never would have bought it anyway. ;-)

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[iamwahoo2]

Well if they are downloading the stuff the they HAVE STOPPED BUYING THE STUFF. Mission Accomplished.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[reallocate]

Why is attempting to eliminate illegal activity wrong? Why is trying to stop someone from stealing something an act of oppression?

People who steal deserve what happens to them.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[reallocate]

Except that they're thieves. It's legal to buy products. It isn't legal to steal them.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[Sj0]

How is wanting to run a battle net server so your freinds can play blizzard games on your IP lan wrong?

How is it wrong to have a website which posts the prices of products at several stores?

How is wanting to re-use a toner cartridge wrong?

Because the laws bought by the people who want to stop theft are being used for things like the above.

Of course, oppression by the strong against the weak is completely different than downloading a song. After all, the companies could have actually made 20 dollars on the latter!

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[iamwahoo2]

You say that like it is a bad thing. Organizations like RIAA and MPAA get no sympathy from someone like me. If Hillary Rosen was dying and only needed a drop of my blood to survive, I wouldn't give it to her. These are bad human beings. I beleive in copyright, but balance is important and if our government is going to allow these organizations to buy legislation and exploit our legal systems, I for one am not going to play along. If someone pushes me around, I am going to push back, not sit around and take it like a @#$$Y.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[shutdown -p now]

It doesn't work with monopolies. You just end up screwing yourself.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[TheoMurpse]

I am going to push back, not sit around and take it like a @#$$Y.

What is an ahssy?

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[Ugly American]

It might not work with the power monopoly or the water monopoly, but no-one "needs" to buy CDs or watch movies/TV. A boycott is at least theoretically workable, although I have my doubts about how many people would actually be willing to stop buying and/or viewing.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[elrous0]

Well if they are downloading the stuff the they HAVE STOPPED BUYING THE STUFF.

That's probably true with music, but not with films/TV shows. I'll bet most of the people that downloaded Sith also went out and saw it at the theater too, and will probably buy the DVD when it comes out.

A shitty bittorent can't compare (at present) to the theatrical experience or a well-mastered DVD. Most of the people downloading movies do it to either show-off or to have something to tide them over until the real DVD comes out.

-Eric

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[Ugly American]

I doubt it's even true with music; I can think of a good 20 or so CDs that I bought after downloading a few tracks and deciding I liked them. Now that I'm off the P2P networks, I've only made a handful of purchases (the score for Revenge of the Sith and the new Nine Inch Nails album,) so in my case cracking down on P2P has actually cost the RIAA some sales.

Re:Compulsory Buying, Eh?

[Yartrebo]

A boycott is essentially unworkable. Entertainment and social stimulus, of one form or another, is a basic human need. And for most couch potatoes and nerds, they have very limited means of getting it aside from the CRT, be it hooked up to a computer or a TV.

If you put a person in isolation, they will go mentally crazy in less than a week.

So you can relate the MPAA and RIAA to the electric and water monopolies.

Personally, I do boycott both the MPAA and RIAA, but it does take its toll, and finding alternative media sure isn't easy (P2P does help in this regard). And I'm a person who hates the MPAA and RIAA with great zeal and I am very good at searching for stuff. I'm sure 99.9% of people wouldn't do it.

Rainer Wolfcastle...

[Pacifix]

... to Jay Sherman.

Re:No.

[Travelsonic]

Government shuts down Web site used to steal "Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith."

If copies of star wars were "stolen" via "websites" then why do these "sites" still have the copy? Because it isn't stealing, it is copyright infringement. Fucking idiots.

How many of us go to opening day FOR the lines?

[davidwr]

I generally avoid opening day because I don't like to wait more than a few minutes in line for a movie...

UNLESS it's an "event" like Star Wars.

I regret not being able to do the Midnight Madness showing. I'll pay $8 just for the "event" - something you can't get at home.

Re:How many of us go to opening day FOR the lines?

[Pacifix]

Me too. But many people still want to be able to talk about the movie the next morning, but still aren't willing to brave the lines. We're talking about the 30-50 year olds who don't have the stamina anymore. They'd probably even pay more to be able to be in on the buzz without the three hours in the cold (or hot or rain or whatever).

Re:How many of us go to opening day FOR the lines?

[maxpublic]

We're talking about the 30-50 year olds who don't have the stamina anymore.

That would be "we're talking about 30-50 year olds who aren't that fucking stupid anymore, and who've managed to pick up this thing called 'a life' along the way to middle age."

Max

Look what I can do!

[kernel_dan]

If you make a selection from below the yellow box down to the bottom, you will see:

RTJKJAS

Which is a little strange for such an official page. Looking a little deeper, I found:

<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smartt ags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

Also, elitetorrents.org resolves to 192.31.21.68, a dhs.gov IP. And for all you nerds, nmap reports it is running Apache (httpd) 2.0.46 on RedHat and OpenSSH 3.6.1p2 (protocol 1.99).

Re:Look what I can do!

[jotux]

so government employees use word to generate webpages and post them on a redhat server......so?

Re:Look what I can do!

[Legion303]

"And for all you nerds, nmap reports [...]"

Congratulations for running nmap on a dhs.gov server. Is that even still legal? I'm losing track of the number of rights being flushed away these days.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[LiquidCoooled]

fta:

The enforcement activity was coordinated with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a unit within the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Re:This is treason on the part of our govt

[Paladin144]

And please learn what "fascism" and "treason" actually mean before you go throwing the words around.

I think he knows exactly what those words mean. Do you?

Fascism is a system of government controlled by (or at least, for the benefit of) corporations. It is often called corporatism, in fact. It is a system wherein the lines between government and corporations blur so much they effectively cease to exist.

Grandparent poster is bemoaning the fact that the government is doing the corporations' bidding without looking out for the rights of the people. Treason is (in this context) betraying the principles of the republic in order to enforce the whims of a multi-national corporation.

FYI, the USA has been a fascist country for over 50 years. It doesn't mean we don't have a democracy; it's still just barely hanging on. The fascists in our midst will kill what remains of democracy at the first opportunity. That's treason.

Also, I think it's clear that file trading will soon be made illegal, straight up. This will create more criminals, which is good for the fascists because it allows them to strip our civil liberties in the name of upholding the rule of law. Look at the "Drug War" for an example. You don't really think they intend to "win" the war do you? It's just an excuse to eliminate our 4th amendment rights, amongst others. They've already won.

The War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism, the War on Piracy.... are you sensing a trend? Don't be fooled into thinking that everybody in this country is a liberty-loving democracy fan. Many people have a very twisted idea of freedom. For them, freedom is "the power to do whatever I want and control the lives of others." People like this are attracted to offices of power, such as government, business and religion. They look just like you and me, and they proclaim their patriotism at every opportunity, but in fact, they seek to do away with all of our liberties in the name of the Almighty Dollar.

Re:This is treason on the part of our govt

[Arren]

"...nothing more than fascism, i.e., the corporate takeover of government."

No my friend, you have it wrong.

The corporate takeover of a market economy is called 'deregulated capitalism' (hi there Enron!)

It's the magick of the market!

I saw 10 minutes of a pirated version

[EvilStein]

(NO, I didn't download it. Friend did and had it on his laptop.)

Bunch of us watched the first 10-15 minutes. Everyone said "Ok, so far it doesn't suck. Let's go see it." .... and off the group went to the next showing.

Remember when Apple let the first 7 minutes of "Chicken Run" loose on their trailer site? Good move, I say. I'm fed up with biased movie reviews and trailers that show the only cool parts of the whole movie. I'm still pissed off that I wasted $30 + 2 hours of my life to see "Mission to Mars" after seeing the trailer. Bastards.

Re:I saw 10 minutes of a pirated version

[whoda]

wait until you realize your $60,000 dollar car doesn't get you hot chicks.

Re:I saw 10 minutes of a pirated version

[EvilStein]

Dude, my busted ass 1989 Nissan Sentra doesn't even get me the *ugly* chicks.. whatchoo talkin about, $60,000 car? :P

Re:I saw 10 minutes of a pirated version

[Xyrus]

I think what movie studios should do is release low-res versions of their movies on the internet. People could download them, and if they liked the movie enough they'd go see it in a theater or buy the DVD.

As it stands right now, you pay money to see a movie based on a trailer, which of course only highlights the best parts. This is a little deceptive; sort of like buying a car after only getting to sit in the seat.

However, if people can "test-drive" movies they would make better purchasing decision. They may even end up buying more movies because they could suddenly become exposed to a wider range of materials.

I think this could also work for the music industry, sort of like an on-demand radio but free.

For some people, the low res versions would be enough (just like some people who only listen to the radio or only watch movies on public stations). But most, if they like the material, would willingly go out and buy it.

I think this would reduce the amount of piracy while at the same time increase diversity and sales. Unleashing these files into the P2P networks would be the most widespread advertising you could possibly hope for, and it's comepletely free. There's zero distribution cost. The internet community would do all the work for you.

The media conglomerates view the internet and p2p networks as an enemy. They don't realize that they're missing one of the largest free sources of advertising and revenue in the world. Instead of fighting your consumers, encourage them. Get them to expand their horizons. Their feedback to the companies would be quite valuable, along with their dollars.

Let people download full low-res movies and songs. Let people experiement with their tastes. Let people find what they like instead of shoving it down their throats. Find out what your consumers want. Then the people will come asking for it and be willing to pay for it.

The risk is lowered. The profits are higher. And both consumers and companies would be happy.

Could this work?

~X~

Re:I saw 10 minutes of a pirated version

[Ezel]

The new 2004 release of Dawn of the Dead had the first 10 minutes or so released as a trailer.

That was the BEST TRAILER EVER!!

Mvh: Ezel ... Malmoe, Sweden

Like pissing in the ocean

[nurb432]

Might make you feel better, but you dont make a dent..

The entire structure of copyright laws need to be revamped.

Of course i know that will never happen as long as the large corporations are in control of the government.

Re:Like pissing in the ocean

[wheelbarrow]

Why do you need to change the structure of the copyright laws? It seems to me that we already live in the perfect copyright world because you, as a content producer, are free to protect your content with copyright or not! There is nothing stopping you from producing your own content and releasing it under terms that allow free distribution and copying.

Why don't you do that with the fruits of your own labor rather than obsessing over the fruits of other producers labor.

Re:Like pissing in the ocean

[nurb432]

You seem to misunderstand, Of course *I* have the right to protect my work.

Others should not have the right to restrict *my* use of their work.

Re:Like pissing in the ocean

[CapnGrunge]

Pun intended, revamped as in "getting its blood sucked over and over"?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Homeland Security

[ndansmith]

Homeland Security isn't 100% terrorism.

Yeah, it's probably at least 5-10% counter-terrorism.

Elite torrents... replacement ?

[cyberfunk2]

Perhaps it'll be replaced by the new search engine that just came out today ? (see previous slashdot story)

Anyone seeing that new engine going down in a similar manner ?

I'm ashamed that my taxes are going to the FBI doing the lobbying group's dirty work. Sigh.

Powerful this Bit Torrent Is, Yes?

[WillAffleckUW]

Arousing the Ire of the Sith Lords, Yes?

The data must flow ...

Obviously we're talking about subsets of unlimited

[millennial]

a selection of copyrighted works ... described as virtually unlimited

So this is virtually unlimited, but selective. As there are an infinite number of positive integers, but there is a larger infinite set of real numbers, EliteTorrents had a virtually unlimited selection, but they still didn't have everything.

I agree with what some others have said here - this looks like a DNS hijacking and fake warning. The Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement have absolutely nothing to do with copyright enforcement.

5 years in pound-your-ass

[isorox]

First-time offenders convicted of criminal felony
copyright laws will face up to five years in federal prison, restitution, forfeiture and a fine.

5 years, isn't that a bit extreme. Still, kiddnapping gets 10 years, and that's only slightly worse than downloading copyrighted works

Lost Revenue

[834r9394557r011]

I work in an industry where licensing is a huge part of our buisness. And from what I have heard almost all, if not all, of the costs of producing the film; from paying the actors and studios and everything else was paid for before the release of the movie just in licensing fees.
They are making bundles of money either way one looks at it. Albeit, people should pay to see a great movie such as those in the Star Wars series. I dropped $20 to see the movie in a leather recliner.

Re:No.

[Oldest European]

How about 'illegal distribution'. You know that is what is meant by 'stealing' don't be a f'ing tool.

I beg you pardon, but that isn't meant - it might be what it is - but they use those words to discredit people and build up a bias against them - nothing more, nothing less.

And to the genius that modded my original post as offtopic: did you read the article? If so, how can you mod my comment offtopic?

I don't see why not....

[einhverfr]

If you think that, you have never built a firewall...

Ok, so if your ISP blocks, say, ports 443, 80, 20, and 21, then they have essentially blocked your access to HTTP and FTP. If you impliment certain application layer protocols, you could probably limit SSL connections to those with trusted certificate authorities, block HTTP on other ports, and many other applications.

So I don't see how one could say that it cannot be attacked. It is just possible that the collateral damage could be very high.

Unfortunately the internet is not as end-to-end as you seem to think.

Re:I don't see why not....

[Fittysix]

Of course it COULD be attacked, but would you stay with an ISP that blocked prot 80?
It would have to be done at the ISP level, and I doubt the customers would be very happy at thier ISPs once they did do it.
Bittorrent also doesn't use any sort of fixed ports, blocking 20/21 will certainly take out a bunch of FTPs but there are many that work on different ports.
Packet sniffing would allow detection reguardless of port, but I hear the the hardware very expensive to do that on an ISP scale.

Re:I don't see why not....

[tepples]

but would you stay with an ISP that blocked prot 80?

If such an ISP is the only ISP in town, and almost nobody has the money to emigrate just to escape that ISP...

Re:I don't see why not....

[einhverfr]

Of course it COULD be attacked, but would you stay with an ISP that blocked prot 80?

What if enough ISP's were sued because they failed to block bit-torrent that most decided they had to cave? Where would you go then?

Packet sniffing would allow detection reguardless of port, but I hear the the hardware very expensive to do that on an ISP scale.

My ISP uses similar hardware for IDS purposes and to prevent viruses/spambots from operating. It would seem to be trivial to modify the rules to block BT.

Fortunately, this is a good thing for me. They don't block ports, but only block statistically problematic activity (such a sudden burst or increase in connections) so I can run an email server without even worrying about port 25 being blocked in or out bound. At the same time, the amount of activity hitting my firewall is probably 20% of when I was with Speakeasy. And occasionally when this blocking has been a problem, I call up their network administrator and he turns off the problem filter :-)

Re:I don't see why not....

[Scudsucker]

What if enough ISP's were sued because they failed to block bit-torrent that most decided they had to cave?

Because that's fucking impossible? ISP's do have to cut you off if you are found to be infringing, unless they want to be held liable, but there is no way no how they can be sued for not trying to block the traffic in the first place, any more than they can be sued for not blocking porn.

Re:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement?!?!?!

[WillAffleckUW]

Wonder if this has anything to do with the two bills passed overwhelmingly against spyware on PCs?

They give with one hand and take away with the other seven.

Virtually unlimited? That's a big honkin Biowoof.

[mnemotronic]

Government officials, in their statement, called the content available on Elitetorrents.org "virtually unlimited"

That sounds like it must include all private documents ever created, and all secret & "top secret" documents every created. That's why the JBTs were so prompt in reacting. Or perhaps this is Immigration & Customs tooting their own horn looking for more funding. Come to think of it, weren't they the ones responsible for dragging poor little Elian out of a closet at gun-point a few years ago?

and signaled their intent to continue efforts to rein in illegal downloading.

<include gratitous but appropriateStar Wars quote>
Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more [star] systems will slip through your fingers.

No, not shut down.

[nurb432]

They should be given credit for sticking it to the man.

Screw the 'associations'. Screw the farce called 'copyright law'.

( now, making a profit off of sharing, then we have something to talk about. )

I would.

[jasonhamilton]

Joe Avg would too. I saw it by accident 5 days before it was released - but screeners are horrible quality, and you miss the movie experience. What makes you think that $6 for a movie is overpriced or out of the mainstream?

Re:I would.

[jasonhamilton]

Woops, thats horribe wording. I meant to say that I saw that it was available 5 days before the movie was released.

Re:Department of Shitty HTML involved?

[Zeussy]

Sweet mother of God, what an ugly page. View source and it gets even scarier...

Well I tried to view the source, but even FireFox crashed at the sight of it. Best stay away me thinks.

Not strange, Akami

[jhesse]

traceroute results for: www.elitetorrents.org

1 rtr129-93-1 (129.93.1.253) 1.188 ms 0.987 ms 1.021 ms
2 nh-c1-ge2-3 (129.93.3.21) 1.04 ms 1.269 ms 1.306 ms
3 wsec6c1 (129.93.4.237) 1.138 ms 1.031 ms 0.991 ms
4 unl-b2-ge2-0 (129.93.5.9) 1.072 ms 1.015 ms 1.009 ms
5 ks-2-a10-34.r.greatplains.net (164.113.234.134) 6.25 ms 5.991 ms 5.857 ms
6 164.113.238.149 (164.113.238.149) 6.236 ms 6.26 ms 6.021 ms
7 ks-2-abilene-ks.r.greatplains.net (164.113.238.193) 6.244 ms 6.139 ms 6.147 ms
8 dnvrng-kscyng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.13) 19.624 ms 16.8 ms 25.592 ms
9 snvang-dnvrng.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.1) 41.925 ms 42.392 ms 41.965 ms
10 losang-snvang.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.94) 49.233 ms 49.033 ms 49.442 ms
11 hpr-lax-gsr1--abilene-LA-10ge.cenic.net (137.164.25.2) 49.51 ms 49.193 ms 50.6 ms
12 sdg-hpr1--lax-hpr1-10ge.-l3.cenic.net (137.164.25.5) 52.707 ms 53.57 ms 52.723 ms
13 hpr-sdsc-sdsc2--sdg-hpr-ge.cenic.net (137.164.27.54) 53.102 ms 52.966 ms 52.942 ms
14 medusa.sdsc.edu (132.249.30.10) 52.804 ms 53.187 ms 52.894 ms
15 www.dhs.gov (192.31.21.68) 52.887 ms 53.052 ms 53.007 ms

(using http://ping.unl.edu/ )

Interestingly, www.dhs.gov is hosted by Akami's server network, however, that IP only hosts the takedown page.

IT'S NOT A HACK

[Spy der Mann]

I just found a Press Release from the FBI saying they were going to shut down EliteTorrents.

At the bottom of the page we read:

"The Motion Picture Association of America provided valuable assistance to the investigation."

So nope, it's not a hack. It's official.

Re:IT'S NOT A HACK

[CrazyDuke]

"The Motion Picture Association of America provided valuable assistance to the investigation."

The political financing kind I'd assume...

Customs should have offered a torrent...

[ArticleI]

...of the video on their website, here. It's an 82 mb file and they would have saved a lot of bandwidth. If they did that; talk about irony.

Re:Customs should have offered a torrent...

[pcjabber]

lol, agreed -- their server appears to be pretty slow too...that would be very ironic to make a torrent (and then host it on Elite Torrents' tracker ;-p)

Calm down...

[joto]

Judging from the comments here, it seems like nearly everyone think it is wrong to stop people from illegally distributing copyrighted works.

Get a grip. Either you pay for the software/movie/music you want, or you satisfy yourself with free legal alternatives. But if you pirate it, and actively help others pirate it, and then get caught, at least take it as a man!

Copyright exists for a reason, and in most cases it works pretty well. The latest Star Wars prequel cost a lot of money to make. It would not have been made, unless George Lucas expected to get even more money in return. If you are against all copyright, you should not enjoy Star Wars at all!

Re:Calm down...

[anotherone]

I totally agree with you. It's not like the people downloading movies are ignorant of the penalty for doing so- they're just hoping they don't get caught. If their gamble doesn't pay off, it's their own fault.

I've got a plan!!!!

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

The dissidents in (insert your favorite African nation experiencing genocide here) should setup a huge rack of servers dedicated to hosting pirated movies and music. Then all they have to do is sit back and wait. Within a couple weeks I'm sure the Marines would arrive to "liberate" the country.

If genocide isn't enough to get the good old USA to act, "stealing" a few bucks from their VERY wealthy citizens should do it.

Re:I've got a plan!!!!

[outsider007]

actually I believe George Lucas has on retainer a cyber-ninja commando death squad for just this eventuality

Open Letter

[jpx7777]

Dear DHS, In these trying times, I am trying to raise a family and live the American dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I personally do not download movies, I see an average of 1 or 2 movies in theatres per year. My question to you is, How many more torrent sites do you need to shut down before myself and my children will be able to see the threat level drop to green? Thank you for rising above corporate money and keeping the interests of the American people on top.

Why bother with a complex plan.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just advertise that your country just found a shallow 2 billion barrel oil reserve and that your government plans on nationalizing it in order to fight poverty in your country. I'd recomment building a bomb shelter first, though.

For DVD's, there is no substitute for...

[TheLittleJetson]

...a video rental service and a DVD-R. Honestly, unless your house gets raided there's no way to enforce this.

A $20/mo Netflix subscription can give you almost a DVD every day, if you rip and send back quick enough.

Re:U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement?!?!?!

[harlows_monkeys]

Maybe the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement should get its fucking priorities straight and enforce the fucking immigration laws with the same zeal that it goes after teenagers downloading movies

If you have a limited amount of agents and resources, so that you can't go after all criminals, then allocating them strictly according to the priority of the crime is not a good strategy. You'll catch more people who are doing the highest priority crime, but you'll lose all deterrent effect for the other crimes, as the people contemplating commiting them will know there is no chance of getting caught.

The optimal allocation of resources will depend on the severity of each type of crime, the number of people commiting it, and how big of a deterrent seeing others getting caught is.

A better link for the punishment thing...

[KingSkippus]

I was in a hurry to get the post on here, so I missed the link in the geek.com story to the original article (non-Coral) at USA Today. That still doesn't change the fact that this kid got three months of a deferred jail sentence, three years of probation, 200 hours of community service (for those of you with a 40-hour a week job, that's five weeks off from work, or three months of weekends), $5,400 in fines, and he must take a class on copyright at the University (presumably at his own expense of time and money), and avoid file-sharing programs (I don't see any stipulation that the avoiding of file-sharing programs is limited to illegal downloads).

And in the article, it says that he was lucky that he was just a kid. If he had been older, the penalties would have been stiffer, including a mandatory three month jail sentence up front.

Oh, and I dug up the story from February 10 about the comparison between shoplifting and copyright infringement. Here is a link (non-Coral ) to the original article.

Re:A better link for the punishment thing...

[Altima(BoB)]

I was in a hurry to get the post on here, so I missed the link in the geek.com story to the original article...

Sheesh, go easy on yourself for missing out on a link in your original post. Four links in one post is like the bibliography of a PhD disseration for Slashdot :)

Re:A better link for the punishment thing...

[TheDarkRogue]

Yea, but according to the article he was selling the stuff he downloaded. I think that him selling it was what made them really look at him, and not just being another one of the millions of faceless downloaders

Re:A better link for the punishment thing...

[Josilot]

When I was reading the article, I thought you were making an excellent point about the comparisons between shoplifting and downloading, but then I read the last sentence in the article: "A federal task force that monitors the Internet caught on to the student and got a warrant, Garza said, adding that Dhaliwal was copying and selling the pirated material." He should have gotten a longer jail sentence for selling it.

I wonder

[Ava3ar]

I wonder if it was actually taken down twice

first by a cracker group, and then becasue a couple of websites rang and asked the FBI if they took it down,

the FBI then thought this would be a good story, and took it down for real

just a wonder

Re:You're right

[symbolic]

In the end, it's all down to money, and in the movie business there's loads of it floating around.

And guess where all that money is coming from.

It goes to prove that there's nothing special about Americans. They'll happily hand over their money to someone who will hang them, just as readily as citizens of any other culture. As soon as people stop being stupid with their money, lazy, or both, problems like these can be on their way to being resolved.

people need to learn moral nuance

[circletimessquare]

first off, p2p piracy IS wrong.

but the problem is that it is a different kind of wrong than stealing in the traditional sense. it is a new kind of wrong, and those who fight it are using a moral sledgehammer when moral nuance is needed. and those who fight p2p piracy are losing the battle by overreacting in their moral determination.

to put it another way: to convince people not to download movies, you have to stop using an elephant gun to shoot gnats. you need moral nuance, because those who are downloading aren't listening to fire and brimstone, as it comically outweighs the weight of their crime.

the usual cut off point between otherwise moral people on the issue of p2p piracy has to do with the notion of who copying files on p2p really hurts in society.

some would say that "it's still usually worth shelling out the cash so that the people that worked on the movie get the money that they're owed."

but that's wrong, philosophically AND practically. this is trying to apply binary logic to a question of scale.

the determination that not paying for a movie = stealing is wrong, not because not paying for a movie is right, but because it's simply NOT "stealing" in the moral sense that is brought to bear on the situation before us.

let's say instead of downloading a movie, you sneak into another theatre after the movie you paid for, something teenagers have been doing for decades. what have you stolen? well, if you didn't sneak into that theatre, that seat would have still been empty, correct?

meanwhile, if i steal a loaf of bread, i've stolen a loaf of bread. i haven't stolen half a loaf, i haven't stolen 100,000 loaves. it's a binary determination: i stole the binary value of a loaf of bread at market prices. i need to make moral amends so that "the baker that worked on the bread gets the money that they're owed."

that logic works PERFECTLY for situations where my actions results in something physically becoming unavailable for someone else's use. but that is NOT what is happening with pirated media.

i'll put it another way: let's say someone makes a movie for $100 million, and no one wants to see it, and the movie grosses $1 million. what is the logic behind asking for what "the people that worked on the movie get the money that they're owed?" is it safe to infer then that you support the notion that those who made the $100 million bomb get paid by society $99 million to make up for their loss?

no really, what are the makers of a movie MORALLY owed?

if someone makes a movie for $100,000 and it grosses $500 million, is that what they are MORALLY owed?

what are they owed in your moral sledgehammer approach to the problem?

so what is the value of applying the old binary logic of stealing to a question of scale?

the current moral attitude of the laws on p2p simply doesn't stand up to examination, philosophically and practically. with media: movies, music, text, etc... anything that can be digitized, the binary logic of morality when it comes to theft simply does not apply.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!

again, listen to me carefully, i am not introducing a slippery slope to acceptance, i repeat: it is still WRONG to copy a movie online.

but it is not the same KIND of wrong. it is more nuanced.

so what people operating in a blind, closed minded "it's just wrong" approach need to learn is nuance. the RIAA and MPAA and the people who write the laws in this country need to realize exactly WHAT kind of wrong it is, and stop swinging their sledgehammers, and thereby doing nothing but demonstrate that they don't really understand what they are really talking about.

because refusing to play anything but hardball with a situation that requires a more nuanced moral approach does not do anything except create deaf ears by the POOR and YOUNG who are doing most of the file swapping to simple minded fire and brimstone moral determinations.

because P2P piracy IS a question of m

Re:people need to learn moral nuance

[elpapacito]

Let's make the hypothesis piracy is wrong.

Quite obviously the consumers that no longer buy tickets/licences think that they're getting a lot for free (their satisfaction is therefore maximized)but it's everyday experience that anything very close to free doesn't last forever...hey..rarely is anything given for nothing. Therefore the great majority of consumers is going to think it can't last forever, but they assume there are only few people really pirating because they see shelves still stocked with new movies, people still going to cinemas and still renting movies.

Additionally , the most careful few among the consumers can notice that the balance sheets of major movie studio is still in the positive numbers. Why don't they just stop makig movies if they're suffering losses ? Could it be that media industry is pricing itself out of the market ? Interesting..as long as demand-offer theory is good for them, the theory is good ; otherwise is false.

Many consumer also notice that major starts are still making boatloads of money or so they hear on TV and Radio ; obviously, the majority of people with really low income compare their income to stars and notice stars earn waaay too much.

Ok they do make some wrong assumption, like that stars really do nothing..but certainly they do not fatigue nearly as much as the average employee of many industries and they're not exposed to many financial risks once they're into the business.

-----

SO why in the hell should consumer renounce the opportunity to have a little entertainment with no reuse value for almost free ...for the shake of a moral suasion argument ?

One argument is that piracy is wrong because it damages the workers of industry ; yet they consumer notice that the argument is made only to blame piracy, as the industry doesn't really seem to care when they choose to lay off people ( that extends to almost any industry, not only media)

Another is that piracy in the form of cheap chinese imitation that work and cost half is damaging to everybody : again, most consumers can't take the blame, as they didn't outsource production to China or India ! Obviously many industry blame unions, but unions are powerless in many countries.

It's old game of passing the bucket a..and the real bucket usually lands near or on the masses..and it hurts. Now either the bucket passing is beneficial to the masses or they're not going to tolerate it indefinitely..and watching a movie doesn't fit a lot of people definition of "beneficial".

Many industries have also failed miserably at providing a "moral guidance" because what they have grown into the last 50 years are compulsively driven consumer..they were tought they'll obtain anything by following "the plan" imposed by high brass and quite obviously they're going to rebel is they don't get what was promised to them.

They also noticed few are benefitting immensely from the work of many....that worked when the many were satisfied and felt secure (with social security, realistic minimum wages etc) ....don't know how long it will last without economic security.

Re:people need to learn moral nuance

[advocate_one]

let's say instead of downloading a movie, you sneak into another theatre after the movie you paid for, something teenagers have been doing for decades. what have you stolen? well, if you didn't sneak into that theatre, that seat would have still been empty, correct?

bzzztt... wrong... if the ability to sneak into the movie theater wasn't there... you would be faced with the choice of either paying, or staying away and waiting for it to come out on DVD... so there is loss.

Because p2p is easily available, then there is Loss... Loss from those who'd have stumped up to go to the theater rather than miss it...

Re:people need to learn moral nuance

[aj50]

if the ability to sneak into the movie theater wasn't there... you would be faced with the choice of either paying, or staying away and waiting for it to come out on DVD

Or not watching it at all, which is what the origial poster was getting at. Maybe I don't have the money or enough inclination to pay to watch the film. If I sneak in, they get no money. If I don't sneak in, they get no money.

Grabbing onto the remaining US assets

[Anonymous Coward]

I see this raid, along with all other legislation being passed since 9/11, from the un-Patriot Act to the un-RealID, as the final stages in grabbing assets from the U.S. before it collapses into a depression and Civil War II.

This Intellectual Property grab is to make sure that those at the top can continue to siphon assets out of the U.S., convincing the public that it's all just part of a larger "war on crime" or "war on terrorism".

People spend inordinate amounts of money on entertainment IP. The force of the state being used to enforce IP, indicates that the market isn't acting freely. Otherwise prices would fall.

I'm at the point now where I'm not going to expend energy fighting, but I'm saving it for survival later.

I've already grabbed all the non-fiction IP I wanted (1/2 terabyte or so), so even if the internet were to shut down tomorrow, I would have enough to go on for the immediate aftermath of the collapse (the Long Emergency, as James Howard Kunstler puts it).

I don't risk P2P anymore because of the fascist regime in power in the U.S. I share files with close friends but not through the internet which can be monitored. Even postal mail, I've thought about encrypting. (DVDs sent by Priority Mail can have more bandwidth than a bittorrent.)

Join Sunni and others in the RealID Rebellion.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[Em Ellel]

fta:

Alright, alright, I feel stupid enough as it is.

FBI.gov hosted in the UK?

[KhalidBoussouara]

I have the Flagfox extension installed and this shows where a website is hosted. This is based on the IP (using a database) and not the domain name so it is fairly accurate. This Screenshot of the FBI website shows it is hosted in the UK (see lower right part of screenshot for the country flag). American government websites are not usually hosted in the UK. So something isn't right.

Re:FBI.gov hosted in the UK?

[KhalidBoussouara]

Actually don't take that post too seriously. Flagfox was reporting the IP of the akamai cache. Sorry for the false alarm.

Pretend this post and the parent don't exist. Please.

What does this have to do with my rights online?

[unicorn]

The feds shut down a site that was integral to a network that was illegally sharing copyrighted materials.

I don't trade in this stuff, so I'm not diminished in any way. I haven't lost anything at all.

It might even be a small positive for me. If users on my probably oversubscribed DSL providers network are deprived of the ability to swap some torrents, then possibly there will be a little less lag, etc, when I'm doing stuff online. I can hope at any rate.

Just seems like a case of the government doing it's job, to me.

Re:Department of Shitty HTML involved?

[pcjabber]

Same here. In fact, if it weren't for the CNN article (or the ICE article and movie (82.8MB, AVI) from their site), I would believe it was fake (i.e. ET was just defaced). I have no clue why the FBI would use such a God-awful page, since their site isn't that bad, nor is the ICE site.

It's a shame too -- ET was a nice source for torrents (not illegal ones...;-))

That isn't a "l33t sig", those are initials.

[Hobart]

A professional letter puts the letters of the letter writer at the bottom.

See here under "Reference initials" or here under "Additional Information"

check out ICE.gov website

[Awol411]

ice.gov website says they cracked down on the 133,000-member EliteTorrents network. http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/newsreleases/arti cles/starwars052505.htm

What would Jesus do?

[Sathias]

Its lucky for Jesus that the FLAA (Fish and Loaf Association of America) weren't around in his day, they would have prosecuted him for illegal duplication of food during the Sermon on the Mount that put countless hard-working bakers and fishermen out of business.

That isn't a "l33t sig", those are initials.

[Hobart]

(links fixed)

A professional letter puts the letters of the letter writer at the bottom.

See here under "Reference initials" or here under "Additional Information"

Re:Department of Shitty HTML involved?

[whathappenedtomonday]

right after washing my own eyes I noticed the "invisible" tag at the end of the page, anyone know what it means?

RTJKJAS

Probably not many.

[vhold]

People have been selling copies of newly released movies on the streets of cities worldwide since VHS became popular, I don't think the means by which they acquire the movie is really important when you consider they were able to get their hands on it all along.

There's of course no way to know how many people are making hard copies for their friends, but I highly doubt that there is any kind of geometric spread from there, the vast majority of bittorrent downloaders are probably a physical end point.

If the spread were meaningful after the download, then bittorrent would never have needed to exist for this kind of distribution, people would be doing it physically already.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[benzapp]

I think "moving" is a bit of a strong word. Previously, these organizations were highly independent. Yes, they were all under the authority of the President but they did not regularly communicate with each other. The DHS is simply a bureaucratic system by which a presidential advisor directly coordinates their activities.

Ripoff?-Starved artist.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mass produced media has all but killed small theatres and live entertainment."

You mean like those concerts everyone's always saying musicians can make a living off of, while they continue to download said artists music without permission?

"Blockbuster cinema houses starve out independent cinema houses, then for the mostpart refuse to air local content which might not fill the seats. It's a rape of our culture and funnels money out of the local economy and right into Hollywood."

Yes I can see how free will is being twarfted. Maybe the "independent cinema houses" business model is "old and busted" and they should trade it in for the "new and improved" slashdot version.

"The revenues are used to empower legal teams to change copyright legislation so as to artificially protect their intellectual property. The rights which copyright gave them to make their bililons of dollars is just not enough for them."

Yes I can see how the consumer was forced to watch "Return of the Sith" and held at gunpoint till they gave money.

"In a world of six billion people, we should see more films and creative content than ever in the history of the earth, but for some reason, all we care about is the production of a few films from these big corporations."

Nothing misterious about "we". It's simple really. We're not you. "We" simply made economic and cultural decisions you don't like.

"In other words, George Lucas is a role model for Americans to screw the little guy."

And Al-Que'da is a role model for how to liberate the planet from people like George Lucas.

Re:Ripoff?-Starved artist.

[GrassMunk]

You must be the same guy who calls people who didnt support the war anti-american. How the hell does one go from George Lucas to Al-Que'da? I know i know, terrorism is the mot-du-jur in the states but come on now.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[ScentCone]

departments like the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Coast Guard, Customs, and FEMA; have all been moved to, or are in the process of being moved to the DHS

Perhaps the people that are modding this as "interesting" should ask themselves whether or not the comment is, or is not, BS. As an example, the CIA is not a piece of DHS, and is not being moved to DHS. Rather, we've got a new office (now occupied by Negroponte) that is coordinating the intelligence output (though not necessarily operations) of several disparate agencies or units within other agencies. While DHS has a strong interest in coordinated intelligence, it is not an intelligence agency, per se. The FBI, likewise, is still part of Justice, and neither are, or will be, part of DHS. Get your damn facts as straight as your tinfoil hat.

Apathetic voters

[tepples]

The citizens supposedly define the law

The problem is that the members of the MPAA own all major television news outlets in the United States. The MPAA News Channel family (including abc, cbs, nbc/msnbc, fox, and cnn) likely won't give a pro-commons candidate enough screen time to attract the plurality of voters who vote primarily based on information from television.

Besides, a sizable number of alleged copyright infringers are too young to vote.

Inconsistances

[Elitist_Phoenix]

1) The neither FBI nor U.S. Customs has never directly or exclusively shut down any torrent site. All site closures have been the result of an MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) action or investigation.

2) An odd message on the bottom right of EliteTorrents.org states RTJKAS. This message only appears when the page is highlighted.

3) The topic message on EliteTorrent.org IRC channel states, Topic is 'Site: Down | Tracker: Up | Forums: Down | Radio: OFF | News : Site will be up when it's fixed. Stop asking.'

4) The topic message on thier IRC channel now states, "Latest news:ET Was DNS Hacked (sithlord.)"

Not all movies...

[tepples]

...have been released on DVD. For instance, you try finding me Song of the South on DVD (region 1 compatible, English audio).

Re:Not all movies...

[artefactual]

apparently you only have to wait another year, www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/ articles/showarticle.php?ID=1313

Subconscious copying

[tepples]

TOUGH SHIT. You have the right not to watch the movie

No I don't. Movie distributors often advertise on television, with a 30 second trailer. If I see one of those, then under the "subconscious copying" doctrine established in Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music, I'm forever barred from making similar movies myself.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[TapeCutter]

The "highly independent" feature you talk about is one of the "checks and balances" that the US is always babbling on about.

Stalin defeated his two rivals and came to power by "coordinating" the security apparatus of Russia. He got so coordinated that he was able to crush a 100 million "enemies of the state" but I suppose that is ancient history and has no real relevance to modern times. There is no way a dictator could rise in the US by "coordinating" the planets security apparatus...is there?

Re:did they really get this from elitetorrents?

[assassinator42]

It was the trailer, which they probably got previously from Elite Torrents. Look at the filename. It was taken from the first airing of the trailer on fox.

I remember my first pirate site

[Weaselmancer]

...and I was just as impressed. Buncha n00bs.

Does not even look like it

[resentment]

I really don't think the FBI would add a that horrible looking garbage to any site. When Loki Torrent went down, the MPAA added a nice looking placeholder image. Looking at Elite Torrents, makes me think otherwise. There is no possible way that they would throw a page together this badly, and with the text at the bottom. They would have checked over it, and made sure everything was ok. I'm going to go on a limb and say it was hacked too. A site just doesn't go down, and have this many errors in it.

This is ridiculous..

[StikyPad]

This is ridiculous.. Nobody downloads crappy workprint or telesync copies of a movie as a substitute for going to the theater or buying the DVD.

That's what .xvid.dvdrip.proper's are for.

"Curse those BitTorrenters.. if it wasn't for them, we'd have the highest three day weekend grossing movie of all time instead of just the second-highest."

How is this possible?

[WindowLicker916]

The website does not host the files, all they host is a .torrent file...so untill the court rules torrent technology illegal...then what have they done wrong?

Also this was a member only website...which when registering I can safely assume that it states if you are anyway affiliated with the government and blah blah blah you are not allowed on this website because of the internet privacy act signed by bill clinton blah blah blah. You see that everywhere...I really suspect this bust was not clean...and if the people running this website get any money backing them up, they will win. The government and the **AA need to stop wasting tax payers money on suing and arresting teenagers for downloading a file and instead go after the people that work for them. They are leaking these movies and albums out themselfs...their own employees. Or go after the crews releasing this shit.

These crews are just getting better and better at what they do. If Joe Smoe was doing the releases...I probably wouldn't be interested in whatever it is because the quality is probably crap.

Am I right or am I right?

BTW this new posting system where you have to type in the letters you see in the graphic....SUCKS

Re:How is this possible?

[Legion303]

"BTW this new posting system where you have to type in the letters you see in the graphic....SUCKS"

This is apparently only in effect for certain users, because I have yet to encounter it. Does it make you do this every time you post, or does it pop up randomly?

Re:How is this possible?

[WindowLicker916]

The last several times I have posted it has made me. ..and I've been a member for over a year...doesn't make sense.

This reply right here is making me do it too =/ "cpykbvd"

One of these days

[UlfGabe]

One day im going to write up a program to scour articles for bias based on the context of words in relation to other words, using a towards/away method. (or rather, a left/right method)

utilizing words such as stealing in combination with copyright articles would result in a bias warning and it could be analyzed graphically!

Excellent idea!

[EvilStein]

Hrm. The only thing that might go wrong is.. well, a lot of movies just plain suck, but people don't realize it until they've been suckered into theatres to see it. The trailers sucker them in.
Classic example: "Mission to Mars" was HORRIBLE. ONe of the worst movies that I have ever seen. Had I seen a low-res version of it, I'd have *never* spent money to see it in the theatre.

Movie studios probably know this. They count on suckers. :)

Re:Excellent idea!

[rhuntley12]

Funny, I know tons of people who loved mission to mars. They only watch it high though, figure that one out;)

Re:Excellent idea!

[EvilStein]

I think that's the only way one *can* enjoy it. heh.

If I recall correctly, there were cool scenes in the trailer that weren't actually in the movie. Ever see that happen? Seeing a trailer and then seeing a movie and going "Hey, that stuff I saw in the trailer didn't happen!" sucks. heh.

Re:Obviously we're talking about subsets of unlimi

[StikyPad]

Right.. I guess they hacked the customs website as well.

but wait, this will fix it ..

[ta ma de]

H5N1 is coming with the promise of reducing government by 1/5. This must be the rapture we were promised.

what would Jesus do?

[weighn]

...about online piracy?

Not true about CIA and FBI

[Artifice_Eternity]

The CIA and FBI are not part of the Dept. of Homeland Security, nor are there any current serious plans to move them to the DHS. It was talked about a few years ago, but those agencies resisted.

But with this statement I agree:

This is a BIG change... it's the most signifigant restructuring of the US government in the last 50 years.

Re:Not true about CIA and FBI

[ShinmaWa]

You are right about the CIA and mostly right about the FBI. However, two departments of the FBI /did/ move to DHS, to wit:

- National Domestic Preparedness Office
- National Infrastructure Protection Center

Elite Torrents was not just movies/TV/Music

[dimfeld]

Most of the commenters are talking about movies and music, but ET hosted torrents for all sorts of things. They had major games, a lot of movies and TV series that were already on DVD, applications, etc.

The shutdown of Elite Torrents isn't really comparable to the recent shutdown of various TV torrent sites. Their range of categories went well outside of the grey area of TV downloading and its ilk.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[ScentCone]

is there?

Um, no. And, since you brought it up, recall that part of the way that Stalin crushed the will of many sectors of his territory's population was by literally starving them. You'll notice that the US is actually a net food exporter. And we've got this little things called elections (as opposed to say, the ruler-for-life approach taken by people like Stalin, Saddam, Qaddafi, Kim Jong Il, etc.).

other torrent sources

[kneedme]

i would appreciate other users recommendations for sites to find torrent files. in addition to elitetorrents.org, i enjoy http://filelist.org./

Re:This is treason on the part of our govt

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I agree with everything you said except for:
FYI, the USA has been a fascist country for over 50 years. It doesn't mean we don't have a democracy; it's still just barely hanging on.

No, actually at this point we effectively no longer have a democracy. We have a secret oligarchy of corporations that plays at being a democracy by making sure they have bought and paid for the campaigns of all plurality party candidates. You have no choice whatsoever- you will either vote for a company man or you will vote for the loser, in any race that requires basic advertising at all. There are no honest politicians- and the only difference between the parties are what they are dishonest about. They'll never tell you the truth- that corporations pay for everything, and that this country has been living on the international equivalent of credit cards for longer than half the population has been alive.

The real mistake came in calling money a form of speech- effectively giving the corporations superior first ammendment rights compared to the individual. And the end result is slavery.

No time for such stuff

[DigiShaman]

Or maybe people are to fucking busy with their 50 hour work week to even give a rats ass about such "arts".

But noooo, what little time we do have left in our lives (we are slaves to our own work after all), we spend in front of the TV and veg out to unwind from the daily stresses of life.

I don't know about you, but the last thing I want is to walk to the local theater after work regardless how badass the new starwhores movie is.

I'm curious to know something though. Because of Americas ever growing self inslavement to work, I'm curious just how many other intertainment industries are suffering in revenue to population ratio based on a yearly chart. I'm willing to bet Walt Disney is having a hard time making a buck compaired to the 70s or 80s when people actually had more time to take said vacations.

Re:No time for such stuff

[prshaw]

I think I can guess your age.

You didn't live through the 70's and 80's when you think we all had all that spare time.

I think it is safe to say that Americans are spending a lot more money now on entertainment then they ever have in the past.

Video games? Movies? New car at 16? Cable TV? Cell Phones? Trips to Disney?

Right, we had all sorts of time for that. I had all sorts of spare money for these things.

"Elite" Torrents?

[MichaelGospatrick]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't getting shut down by the polite only happen to a site that was lacking in eliteness? Perhaps in my old age I have misunderstood the meaning of the hacker term "elite".

Downloads can be a good thing

[DJOtaku]

Someone else touched on one of the best reasons for downloads - a free preview of the item. Many times I have downloaded a movie because I didn't want to waste $10 to see it in the theatre if it was bad. After seeing it in crappy quality on my computer I would usually go see it in the theatre if it was good. Is it their fault for making bad movies or charging too much? Nah, those movies cost a ton. But they have made me jaded. Nothing gets me more ticked than laying down money for something that I don't like. Nothing else in life is like that. When I buy a computer I can see the specs, test it in the store, and see if I like it. If I don't like it I can get a full refund or exchange within 30 days. Not so with movies. Obviously there would be much lying if you didn't have to pay for a movie if you didn't like it, but does my point make sense? You can test drive a car and even, in some lots, take it on the highway to see how it drives and then return it. If you don't like it, don't pay. Again, not so with movies. So something needs to change or, as someone suggested, they need to let us at least watch a decent amount of the movie instead of silly trailers which almost always look good.

Mod Parent Up

[xilmaril]

as others have said, this is brilliant

f*ckers

[5n3ak3rp1mp]

Goddamnit, this was the only way I could get episodes of Desperate Housewives without watching it during the broadcast time.

Luckily, if they come after me, all they can get me for is downloading pr0n, and DH episodes, which I already pay to be able to see via my cable subscription. (Does this mean I'm relatively safe?)

Re:Obviously we're talking about subsets of unlimi

[millennial]

I made this post before being fed my own words. Thanks for the leftovers :P

..what are you talking about?

[arstchnca]

Your hypocrisy is nothing short of awesome. You reference the "tyranny of the majority," and proceed to back it up with two examples that are, in fact, contradictory!

I heard one time thousands of Americans owned slaves.

While this statement is, by itself, true, it does not work to reinforce your statement concerning the "tyranny of the majority". Yes, there was a time during which many Americans owned slaves. What you fail to point out is that there were more slaves than there were slave-owners. The slave-owners themselves were not representative of the majority of the population, much of which was firmly opposed to the concept of slavery.

I hear companies violate the GPL all the time. I guess that's ok as long as there are thousands of companies doing it, right?

Once again, unless the majority is working to effectively oppress a segment of the population, the scenario does not work to uphold your point. For the most part, coders of GPL'd OSS do not work for profit. How are they being oppressed by the "majority" of hypothetical copyright-infringing software companies?

While I agree with you that the enormous profits garnered by the movie industry are not necessarily proof that mainstream cinema is overpriced, I must object to the majority of statements made in your post. You should think hard about the examples you cite, lest they work against you.

revenge of the sith indeed

[slimothy]

I can't tell if its fake or not yet, there seems to be evidence pointing in both directions, however if it isn't then it was shut down because of 'Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith'. Ussually a film gets released by a group on a topsite in 'the scene' and is then raced to other FTPs and then onto everywhere else and appears on torrent sites like Elite Torrents a couple hours later at best. This time however (just like with Kill Bill a few years ago) a workprint was stolen from a DVD release group known as ViSA and managed to appear on Elite Torrents first before it was PRE'd on the topsite, this means the first place you could get the new Star Wars movie anywhere on the internet was Elite Torrents. Then a week later they are shut down, and not only are they shut down but homeland security posts a picture of elitetorrents with a pirated star wars over at http://www.ice.gov/graphics/ Perhaps the Star Wars release was the straw that broke the camels back

Logic Holes

[jojo tdfb]

First of all, your idea that the best art is free art flies in the face of hundreds of years of art-making.

That doesn't grok to me. Sure a lot of people made great stuff while being paid for it, but just as many people made stuff to not get paid. Consider Walden by Henry David Thoreau. He wrote that while trying to live out in the woods avoiding making money as much as possible. Consider folk music. Not the kind of popular commercial folk music but the old school traditional kind. People didn't make folk music to make money, but to have a good time.

Secondly, you are incredibly short-sighted if you think all these great movies will be made if it starts to become unprofitable to make movies.

It's equally short sighted to think that great movies are made because it is profitable. Quite a few ground breaking movies were made not because they were going to be profitable, but because everyone involved loved the art form.

The hard belief that everything is done to make money somehow is a rather sad and unstable view of life. Everyday I see people do wonderful things without any regard to weather they're going to make money from this action or not. That's not just art but life itself. Open your eyes ,man ,and have a little faith in people.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[TapeCutter]

You forgot Hitler, he came to power because Germany had "little things called elections". I suppose you will also tell me that the supreme court deciding an election does not have any parrallels to the politiburo electing Stalin.

Stalin did not simply starve the poulation, what could he gain from that? What he did was worked them to death in labour camps. The fact that a large chunk of the rural population ended up in the camps is what caused the starvation. However we are getting away from the point because that is what Stalin did with his power, it has nothing to do with how he obtained dictatorial power in the first palce.

The French were not expecting a dictator after they cut the heads from those in power, but they got Napolean anyway. I'm sure your right, it couldn't possibly happen in the US. However I don't know how you came to this conclusion so could you please elaborate on your thesis. Tell me again why you think the political system of the US is so special that it is immune to historical precedence?

Think of it this way

[jonwil]

If I go and post an ad in the paper (for example) telling people where to go and buy illegal drugs from, I am breaking the law.
By the same token, the newspaper would probobly also be breaking the law because they published the ad (knowing full well the ad was for something blatently illegal)

All a .torrent file is is a note saying "talk to to machines x,y,z to download this file" (or something like that anyway, I dont know the techincal details of bittorrent). And, like the hypothetical newspaper ad, a .torrent file for an illegal copy of a movie/song/program/game/etc serves no other purpose than to aid people in breaking the law (downloading the item without permission from the copyright holders).

As for the sites themselves, the sites being shut down tend to have only (or almost only) torrents for illegal files so its quite within the rights for them to be shut down (depending on what country they are in)

Re:Think of it this way

[gumbo]

All a .torrent file is is a note saying "talk to to machines x,y,z to download this file" (or something like that anyway, I dont know the techincal details of bittorrent).

For the record, the .torrent file says "this file is in this many pieces, and here are their checksums, and here is the tracker you can connect to for the file". Once you connect to the tracker, it says "talk to machines x, y, z..."

I was with you until the last part....

[King_TJ]

You're dead on accurate about there being an awful lot of people out there who read about the "American dream" in school, and falsely assumed that the whole "pulled themselves up by the bootstraps" thing must have applied to them too.

I think, unfortunately, you're generally correct about the nature of large corporations today too.

Honestly though, I can't say that I agree at all that supporting "Liberal politics" will get any of this fixed. That's one of the traditional mantras of the left-wing... Vote for us because we're "for the common man" and "against those evil corporations"! Their track record doesn't seem to show that they're able to make any headway towards those ends, though. It's much more of a tool used to keep getting re-elected.

EG. The Democrats are often pushing for an increase in the minimum wage. This one's purely a sham, folks. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if you artificially increase the minimum amount every business in America is allowed to pay for the most basic/unskilled of jobs, it causes an inflationary ripple effect. The folks at the bottom might get that extra $1 an hour or whatever and feel good about it, but when everyone raises prices to cover that increase - how much better off do you think they'll be?

Note that I'm not a "Conservative" either, and I'm not claiming they have a "better" answer to any of this! What I *am* saying is, be careful about blanket statements that a certain political party will solve these economic issues.

I think true change can only come about when a "critical mass" of dissatisfied but capable workers form their own small businesses, and their peers make an effort to shop there instead of with the big corps. The reverse is what made most of the "evil megacorps" in the first place!

Relating this back to movie theaters for a moment... I haven't been to a theater in years myself. Primarily, it's because their ticket prices and lackluster movie releases just don't seem worth my time and money anymore. I would, however, be happy to support the little guys showing good, original films - especially if they cost a little less. So far, my problem is - the local independent theaters largely seem to specialize in the obscure, foreign stuff that they assume they're supposed to be showing. I don't want to see some black and white thing about gay Frenchmen or whatever... I'd be happy just to see a big-screen, high-quality version of some of the more interesting stuff people post to the net these days (AKA. "The Scene").

Re:I was with you until the last part....

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually most corporations were charged with a single task over a period of time by the government many years ago. And rather than keep it at that, ie. a corporation for running the electricity, one for water etc... the government relaxed the rules and they could compete and cause all sorts of problems.

I know I would be called a communist by most americans but I'm not. I just think that in the capitalist system that we have, greater regulation is needed to ensure that the big guys are not screwing over the little guys.

I agree that no political party will be able to 'fix' the problems in the short term, however you have to let them have time to settle in. A few years is by no means a long enough time to repair any mess caused by the previous government.

Re:Obviously we're talking about subsets of unlimi

[mikeg22]

Why is there a larger set of infinite real numbers than positive integers? Aren't the sizes of both sets infinite? Is one infinite bigger than another infinite? I'm not trying to be a math jerk here, I really don't know the answer...

If you were CEO . .

[earthstar]

Your rant is understandable from your current position as a commoner.

Corporations are antithetical to values

But When you become a CEO in future [ Just for this argument ! :-> ] , whether you'll REFUSE the good pay & hold on to the 'values' you mentioned , is anybody's guess.

In America today, how hard you work has very little to do with how successful you are

Sorry to say this. But that statement was plain dumb.Its well known that, anywhere in the world [ & almost in any industry ] , people who do low end jobs , physically hard jobs with long working hours are among the lowest paid in the organisation .And as the hierarchical level goes higher , the pay rises .The work is different and is managerial among other things.Why blame America for that?

Your rationalization that "since the people at the bottom and top of the hierarchical ladder work the same number of hours, the pay should not be big for the top person " does not hold water.

Re:I've got a plan!!!!1111

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is a better solution for you freeloading thieving shits, just leave this country.
Rather tricky, as - if, as I suspect, you're referring to the USA - I've never even set foot on the same fucking continent as it.

Only on slashdot would something like this get modded "insightful."
On the contrary. It would also get modded "insightful" on any similar website run by anyone except right-wing Americans. Which is most of the world right now.

If your American military is into liberation and the spread of democracy, why are there no plans to liberate North Korea or Cuba? Why is China a "most favored nation"? Why are you openly supporting a military dictatorship in Pakistan and an oppressive monarchy in Saudi Arabia?

To put it another way - if the war in Iraq had nothing to do with oil, why was the only "evil" state selected for "liberation" the one with the largest oil supply?

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[ScentCone]

Oy. The Coast Guard remains part of the DOD, and the Secret Service is still part of Treasury. Customs and FEMA are very appropriately going to be a part of DHS. The tinfoil hat impication comes from the tone of the comment - as in, "don't you see, you uninformed Americans? The evil administration is making everything part of one evil agency!" It's just a silly, tinfoilish perspective that isn't even factually correct.

Re:No.

[Pofy]

>You know that is what is meant by 'stealing'
>don't be a f'ing tool.

So if you mean something else, why not instead write that instea? That way there is no possibility for missunderstanding or error.

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[elrous0]

The government underwent a massive reorganization in the last two years. 22 agencies-- including big departments like the CIA, FBI, Secret Service, Coast Guard, Customs, and FEMA; have all been moved to, or are in the process of being moved to the DHS.

You know, it doesn't so much bother me that some redundant agencies have been consolidated (probably more for show than actual effect).

What bothers me is when the govt starts creating agencies called "The Department of Homeland Security" and passing laws called "The Patriot Act." Makes me think I'm suddenly in an Orwell novel instead of a free country.

-Eric

RTJKJAS: Jedi Knights: Jedi Academy ?

[Dave21212]

Well, perhaps part of it is/was:

Read The Jedi Knights: Jedi Academy (something)?
Rent The Jedi Knights: Jedi Academy Software?

And apparently JAS means something in the Jedi Knights game world, not sure what yet, anyone ?

A Brave New World?

[cabazorro]

Two days I read the Star Wars III broke SpiderMan's gross profits records on release (Some insane amount of money).
Great things for America$$$!

People watch finalist from "American Idol"
in records numbers.

MTV's top shows are "MTV Cribs$$$" and "Pimp my Ride$$$".

This morning DHS is shutting down bit-torrents servers and MPAA's CEO Dan Glickman claims victorious:

"Today's actions are bad news for Internet movie thieves and good news for preserving the magic$$$ of the movies,"

all I can say is to Mr Glickman is:

"Big Man, Pig Man, ha ha charade you are!"

Re:Santa Claus was the first through the door w/ m

[musakko]

What bothers me is when the govt starts creating agencies called "The Department of Homeland Security" and passing laws called "The Patriot Act." Makes me think I'm suddenly in an Orwell novel instead of a free country.

Absolutely. They sound like something out of an alternate history SF novel - except we're living it..

--downloadable low-rez movies?

[Vitriol Angst]

Downloadable low-rez movies... that would really hurt the PTP market--it might even be an infringement. A 320x240 and grainy picture on a computer with sound like it's coming from a real,authentic, fast food drive through would be plenty good enough for about half the market. I mean, some people think they are eating good food at a restaurant if some manager decorated with ferns.

Appreciation of quality and the desire to pay for it made Apple a niche product. Nobody would go to a theater to see a special effects film with 7.1 surround sound and 2k resolution. There are so many examples where quality and service are a recipe for failure. It could have killed McDonalds and WalMart. Thank goodness Ray Kroc and Sam Walton were such visionaries.

Next, you'll say, allowing downloads of tv shows that you see broadcast on Classic TV for free would be OK? Making it legal would really kill the charm and guilty pleasure you feel watching a Seinfeld AVI at 3 am--rather than watching it at 4pm on Nickelodeon or 5pm on Turner or 6pm on UPN. Wow, come to think of it, Seinfeld is pretty ubiquitous...

Save P2P and keep grainy, low quality videos with poor service and transmission reliability illegal. Are you trying to kill the gray market? In the end sir, have you no decency? Have you no decency? Good day sir. I say good day.

Re:Obviously we're talking about subsets of unlimi

[millennial]

Because real numbers contain not only positive integers, but also negative integers, zero, and all the non-whole numbers.

Get over it

[gr8_phk]

"If we don't protect the few people at the very top of society so that they can continue to rip off the common folk to make billions upon billions of dollars in profits, then by God, the America I know no longer exists."

If you don't protect the people at the top, someone else will come along and replace them - that's a fact. Perhaps you should be happy that the people at the top in America make their money by laying financial traps (i.e. lending money for everything) and entertaining the public. At least their methods are voluntary. You are not obligated to give them your money or pay any attention. Most other forms of screwing the people are far worse and not voluntary. Granted, power corrupts and will eventually tighten the screws. You do need a reality check though. Someone always puts himself in charge - even if he says it's just to protect people from the other guy who wants the position. I rather like living in America, and I usually ignore Hollywood and all the little shits who think they can stick it to the man.

Elite Torrents

[canuck20xx]

I had an accound on that site and it was the best thing that i had ever used in my experiences with the internet. The site rarely went down and had a fast speeds. I just want to ask, doesnt the FBI and the department of Homeland security have anything better to do than to bust teens trying to download movies off of the internet? I see all of these film companies complaining that their profits are being cut into yet everyday they are also comming out and claiming new box office records like the ones set by spiderman and star wars ep 3 and also claiming record dvd sales with movies like finding nemo and shrek. I just dont understand what it is that they are saying that sales are going down due to piracy or is it going up. Its just a simple case of the rich getting rich and poor getting poorer. Also for those people who think that downloaders are just cheapskates i downloaded star wars but i was also one of the people in line the first day to watch it.

Re:Most brits don't know any better...

[Olix]

Silence Rebel Cur! Obviously, due to your inherent Idiotic American-ness, you have not heard of the ultimate destructive powers of Our Queen! She can fly, shoot lasers out of her eyes... everything - its a genetic trait in the royal familly. They were going to go wipe out the Nazi's in 41, but then you guys joined and they felt bad about not giving you any war to fight in.

On a more serious note, you don't seem to understand how much public opinion the world over has turned against America. It is perfectly acceptable in many circles in England, and other countries, to slate or hate America and its population simply because they are American. The actions of you and your government over the last half century has not given people a warm view on your country, despite the actions you may have taken during the first half of the century that aided various people. You are more publicly disliked that England, and we sure as hell invaded enough countries during our colonial era to piss a lot of people off.

That is a logical falacy.

[jotaeleemeese]

You can't probe it.

You could said the opossite and still could not probe it.

Actual story from ET admin

[mutilated_cattle]

This is the story in the words of one of the ET admins themselves. Copied From ET IRC.

[23:29] [Bleach] Ok this is the deal people listen closely
[23:29] [Bleach] This whole ordeal started with a STOLEN workprint form lucas films
[23:30] [Bleach] This promted a FEDERAL investigation on that particular release
[23:30] [Bleach] Now MPAA could not touch ET (civily) but because a CRIMINAL
[23:30] [Bleach] CASE was issued that now changes the RULES
[23:30] [Bleach] lucas wanted someones head on a platter
[23:30] [Bleach] Said it cost the film Big dollars making it a felony
[23:31] [Bleach] Said it was taken over seas to foreign countries
[23:31] [Bleach] thus bringing in ICE
[23:31] [Bleach] NOW someone from ET leaked to the WRONG people that ET had this release up
[23:31] [Bleach] 6 hours prior to its first showin
[23:31] [Bleach] And that it was DL 10k times
[23:32] [Bleach] This focused the CRIMINAL case on to ET
[23:32] [Bleach] (thinking it was probably someone here) BUT NO IT WAS NOT ANYONE FROM ET WHO STOLE THE MOVIE
[23:32] [Bleach] FBI shuts ET down issue warrants for admins PC
[23:32] [Bleach] NOT ALL WARRANTS WERE ET STAFF
[23:33] [Bleach] TWO admins were raided and ONLY their PC was taken
[23:33] [Bleach] NO arrest have been made
[23:33] [Bleach] No other details have been leaked
[23:33] [Bleach] Right now there is still a CRIMINAL case going on with the SW3 WORKPRINT RELEASE
[23:34] [Bleach] Those who DL may have something to worry about
[23:34] [Bleach] BUT for now only those who made it AVAILABLE has to worry about it
[23:35] [Bleach] NOw I DO NOT
[23:35] [Bleach] KNOW what is to become of the logs with the star wars DL
[23:35] [Bleach] I DONT KNOW what Kryl0n is doing
[23:35] [Bleach] or gone to
[23:36] [Bleach] This came from a MOD who called to update someone on what happened to the 2 admins
[23:36] [Bleach] That is it for now
[23:37] [Bleach] Actually i got a PM right now from a END USER who got searched
[23:37] [Bleach] HE/she DL star wars 3
[23:37] [Bleach] WORKPRINT

Are we alone?!

[dextroz]

Is there no politician with the *balls* to stand up for the people and say that the IP and litigationism in the US is really fucked up!? Looks like after Social Security and Medical Insurance (whoa! now we didn't see that one coming) messed this is going to be the "buzzword" for the next elections.

Of course the way the US is headed I wouldn't be surprised if the current U.S. Regime performs a "coupe d'etat" to stay in power.

Wait wait...

[stellabambino]

Ok, I just watched the video on ICE's page... They started with Google to get to Elite Torrents? why aren't they going after Google then for putting Torrent sites on their search engine. Better still - they have a copy of the movie playing when they visit the site, meaning they had a copy before they went there. Why does this smell like a setup?

Lay off the mothers

[krysith]

I'm afraid I have to join the chorus of voices who will inevitably respond to your modded-way-too-high-for-such-an-ill-thought-out post.

You said: A person cannot end up a single mother with 3 kids working a minimum wage job without making some stupid decisions.

Meet my mom.

Before I was born, she got a graduate degree in Zoology, and performed cutting edge genetic research. She met and married my father, a doctor, who is now one of the top anaethesiogists in the nation. She stopped doing research to raise her 3 kids - I'm the eldest.

So far so good, right?

Well, around the time my littlest sister was born, my dad was working around 100 hours a week. We'd see him once a week or so, and he'd always be angry and throwing things and cursing. Scary for a kid. Even scarier for my mom - her threw her down the stairs and rammed her head into a wall, giving her minor brain damage. Of course, she divorced him, and took us kids and headed to another state. However, ten years had passed since she worked in research, and she couldn't get a job in her field anymore. She managed to get jobs making cold calls on the telephone and secretarial jobs. So there she was, a single mother with 3 kids working a minimum wage job. Perhaps you could tell me the bad decision she had made? Was it marrying the rich doctor who loved her and treated her well for ten years? Or was it leaving her academic career to work on something much more important to her?

Now, I'm doing fine, but I'm about the same age as my mom at the "so far, so good" stage. I haven't made any seriously bad decisions, and I've made a few good ones. Who knows where I will be in a few years? Maybe struggling like my mom had to.

You are correct that there is more to life than luck - decisions do count. But you need to realize that as we are all humans, the information that people use to make their decisions is imperfect. Sometimes decisions which looked good at the time look bad only in retrospect. In addition, while bad luck isn't everything, it does happen - death, illness, abusive families. Just because giving up to bad luck isn't the answer doesn't mean that it doesn't make things much harder. I suggest before you go around judging those minimum wage mothers with 3 kids, you think about how their kids are going to judge you when you tell them from your privileged position how stupid they are.

Biggest disincentive: loss of control

[Tired_Blood]

The huge gains media companies can reap from modern distribution would substantially lessen and offset the losses from piracy.

Ah, but they lose a huge amount of obscurity.

IMO, there's one big reason to shun a more open (and accountable) model: internal politics.

Audits within media companies are notorious for exposing that their own artists are routinely & systematically being ripped off. The beauty of this scam is: how can an audit REALLY illustrate the actual lost revenue in this moderately dynamic system?

All a company has to do is tell their artists that someone else took their money and the anger is safely focused outside the arrangement.

Textbook example of emotional manipulation. No other incentive is more important to a party in control.

The music industry has a long history of dishonoring contracts with their artists. We're arguing about the terrible damage caused by the bank customer who steals the pens, while the bank manager is quietly embezzling away.

It's a powergrab, in every direction.

Web page, at least, is a hijack...

[theNAM666]

jhesse inscribed:
traceroute results...: ...
10 losang-snvang.abilene.ucaid.edu (198.32.8.94) 49.233 ms 49.033 ms 49.442 ms
11 hpr-lax-gsr1--abilene-LA-10ge.cenic.net (137.164.25.2) 49.51 ms 49.193 ms 50.6 ms
12 sdg-hpr1--lax-hpr1-10ge.-l3.cenic.net (137.164.25.5) 52.707 ms 53.57 ms 52.723 ms
13 hpr-sdsc-sdsc2--sdg-hpr-ge.cenic.net (137.164.27.54) 53.102 ms 52.966 ms 52.942 ms
14 medusa.sdsc.edu (132.249.30.10) 52.804 ms 53.187 ms 52.894 ms
15 www.dhs.gov (192.31.21.68) 52.887 ms 53.052 ms 53.007 ms

(see parent posts; and note that Akami merely provides distributed content caching for DHS)

This looks to be a BGP (or RIP) hack. I haven't played with routing protocols for half a decade; those more current wit them may want to look more closely.

As noted, this is the sort of thing SDSC is known for. During an interview, a former sysadmin at SDSC claimed that they (and he personally) were instrumental in tracing Mitnick down, and quickly asked me not to pass that on.

What is most interesting about this, however, is that it clearly involves computer intrusion and several other felonies. From all appearance, SDSC personel broke in to other companies' routers, and changed entries to point traffic to SDSC itself, (from where they forward it to DHS's Akami cache). This is simply illegal.

Since when does a US law enforcement agency ask a university research center to commit felonies? (Oh, ooops, I forgot...)

In any case, time for me to call my favorite EFF lawyer.

$160M + Piracy = Failure?

[TMW]

I really enjoy the fact that this was the biggest grossing opening weekend, yet the MPAA is claiming that piracy is the downfall of the movie industry. I know they know how to come up with lame catchphrases, but do they know about contradiction?