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NASA Scrubs Launch Due to Faulty Fuel-Tank Sensor
VUSE g-EE-k writes "NASA has scrubbed Wednesday's launch of Discovery due to a faulty fuel-tank sensor in the external fuel tank. They are going to begin the troubleshooting process. They have not released details as to how long this delay will last. The crew have begun to get off the shuttle. For more information, see the NASA TV site. Drudge Report has some initial coverage of the scrub."
Reader adefa adds a link to NASA's Space Shuttle launch page with more info.
Conspiracy in 5, 4, 3, 2...
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
I'm still confident they'll launch before DNF or Longhorn are released.
Jeez- this was the slowest space news I've ever seen from Slashdot. I mean, I've been watching all day, and I heard about this MINUTES ago. Geez, who screwed the pooch this time? NASA updated their webpage before /.! NASA!
Karma Whores, do your worst. This is on-topic so whatever.
James
One of four sensors used to detect a low level of hydrogen propellent. They need 2 to work of the four. After they detank, it can be diagnosed, possibly launching tomarrow.
This is highly Unfortunate turn of events. I hope they come up with a new date soon.
In case others get Slashdotted, Here's CNN.com's article.
-jls
Techno-pagan
Just got back to my desk looking to count down the final hour and find it's been scrubbed. I feel sorry for all the astronauts who had to go through all the buckling up and such, it was fun to watch such an involved process. Oh well, better safe than sorry.
Both the Yahoo linked Drudge article and the CNN main page feature the same blurb. Probably from an AP or Reuters source.
CNN main page
See, this is why I'm a neoludite, and have abandoned the ways of your wicked technology!
Anybody know how big their launch window is? I was under the impression they had a very small amount of time to be able to meet the ISS.
how many times in the past that something like this would have been looked over.
What ever happened to the days when everything NASA was super high quality?
I remember hearing about processors being tested for years in various conditions to ensure they're stability... now everything on this shuttle is falling apart.
Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
Hopefully they will get the issue fixed soon.
They have until July 31st in the current launch window if I recall correctly.
The nasa.gov article linked just tells what the shuttle's mission is, not more information on the damaged sensor.
This post has been delayed due to a faulty first-post sensor
I hope all goes well.
I have a faulty fuel sensor in my car. My solution: just fill up every few days to make sure I don't run out of gas. Why can't these "genius" rocket scientist just have the crew stop off and get gas half way up, and again when they come back down?
Dammit, *I* should be in charge of NASA.
(please note, that this post is as insightful as most of the other Slashdot 'advice' to NASA. please mod accordingly)
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Why link to Drudge??? WHY!?!?
Just so you all know - here's the "initial coverage" he has which was just a link to an AP blurb on Yahoo:
"KENNEDY SPACE CENTER - Today's launch of the space shuttle "Discovery" has been scrubbed. The launch was called off because of a faulty fuel-tank sensor. Discovery was supposed to take off for the first shuttle flight since the "Columbia" disaster of two and a-half years ago."
NASA engineers are waiting for the astronauts to disembark so they can troubleshoot the sensor while the tank is still full. The way they were discussing it on NASA TV, the tank will be defueled at some point, so they wanted to run some tests before that.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
Just bang it a couple times!
.. with the release of Duke Nukem Forever.
Duke Nukem Forever programmers are staffing NASA Launch Control.
They are going to begin the troubleshooting process
Trouleshooting prcocess??? Alright. In words of George Carlin:
Whole thing starts when you get to the gate. First announcement, "We would like to begin the boarding process." Extra word, "process", not necessary. Boarding is enough, "We'd like to begin the boarding." Simple! Tells the story...
People add extra words when they want things to sound more important than they really are. "Boarding Process" sounds important.... It isn't! It's just a bunch of people getting on an airplane. People like to sound important. Weather men on television talk about shower activity, sounds more important than showers. I even heard one guy on CNN talk about a rain event. Swear to god. He said, "Louisiana is expecting a rain event." I thought HOLY SHIT I hope I can get tickets to that!
Free XBox, PS2
I've never heard every engineer at JSC say "Doh!" at the same time before.
The launch page (cited in the story) shows nothing different. "Today's countdown", however, continues.
I understand government cutbacks but shouldn't the cargo be sent with a boeing heavy lift rocket or even outsource to Arianne ?
This way we could use money to go with a new design with money saved from the expensive shuttle.
zay launch ze rugkets even if all ze zenzors aer brook1n
and zay still reach ze target zometimez
As for this scrubbing of the launch...I thought once I wanted to be an astronaut...but holy crap, my nerves would be shot by now if I was one of the crew for this mission.
"There is no word how long the delay will last and when Discovery's launch could be rescheduled. NASA has through July 31 to launch Discovery or else wait until September 9 due to the need to lift off and separate the external tank in daylight."
even if they hadnt for the sensor, they where likely going to scrub it for weather. They only had a 40% chance of launching today.
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
Running into the Sun way up in the Sky ...
...
Personally, I think it's more likely an excuse not to repair the Hubble Space Telescope, which more than 90 percent of the public wants, so they can plan more space station trips, which the public cares nothing about.
Either that or when they refuelled they ran short of cash
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Tried the nasa TV link in Firefox 1.05 with mplayer and mozplugger, but never got the media screen.
And my god, it's full of crappy javascript.
There's got to be a better way, but I'm at work so all i can do is complain, instead of look for the solution.
Support FSF: Stop thinking with your wallet, and think with your imagination. (cc/non-commercial)
The Drudge link just goes to the front page where there is a link to yahoo news. Save yourself the trouble and go to the news source of your choice.
I find being offended by me offensive.
As much as I am disappointed in the delayed launch, I am willing to give NASA the benefit of the doubt about the seriousness of this malfunction (some would like to question the necessity of scrubbing the launch over a redundant sensor failing). I've since grown too tall (6'4) to think of any time in space, but when columbia disentigrated, I was not. The accident made me reconsider my dreams, and an accident with Discovery would make the nation do the same thing, which would be a very bad thing.
At this point I think they're just playing it safe. Even after the whole CAIB regulations and requirements, they're taking a chance with the shuttle launch. I don't think any of the guys in that control room wanted to be responsible for another horrible accident because they declined to call off the launch. It seems like they probably didn't have to call it off, since there was a backup for the backup, but I think I would have done the same. Hopefully it's something they can have fixed in a day or two.
The crew have begun to get off the shuttle.
Crew is plural? If it were me, I would've used "The crew has begun to get off the shuttle."
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
They WONT cancel becuase a freaking window FELL OFF of the shuttle (because it was TAPED on incorrectly...), but they WILL cancel becuase one the sensors that tells them HOW MUCH GAS THEY HAVE IN THE TANK isn't working?
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In a shock announcement today, Roland Piquepaquille announced that he has purchased the majority (51%) of the well known news syndication site, Drudge Report.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
I understand that this is a big deal, since the last time a shuttle flew it did not get to land, and no disrepoect meant for the friends and family of those imvolved...
But seriously, this kind of thing would barely be news if not for the previous flight. They end up reschduling a good deal of all shuttle flights due to weather or other circumstances. If they were this careful with every airplane flight that took off and landed in the world each day, we would never get where we need to be. It makes you wonder how many times they launched in the past with problems like these and were "lucky" nothing happened.
Honestly, this trip into space is more of a political statement (or publicity shoot if you prefer) than anything. They are just dropping off some supplies and doing a little work on testing repair methods from what I understand. This shoudn't be as big of a deal as it is, just let them fly the mission when the time is right and things look correct on the ground, then tell us about the success. That's good enough coverage.
The problem was that a low-level cut-off fuel sensor seemed to be indicating the hydrogen level of the external fuel tank was low. There are four of these sensors but NASA prefers a high level of "redundancy" for the launch. Small things like this scrub liftoffs quite often. Spirits are low at NASA. Thanks to NASA's live TV coverage, this problem was made public before even the NASA website could report on it. I was going to liveblog the Discovery launch at GlobeLens.com until this happened. Rats.
How much did it cost us to scrub the launch vs putting redundent sensors into the shuttle so that if one fails, it switches over to a secondary sensor for crtial systems? Is there that little space?
As we keep adding more computer onboard the more problems we have. Of course on board computers are very helpful but out of the two cars I have (one loaded with on board computer, the other with minimal computers) the one with minimal computers is doing much more better(stays with me more than staying in the garage) than the one loaded with computers. Most of the time the car loaded with computers has a problem the computer itself (and who's going to flag that problem?).
What does your Credit Report look like?
Here.
as far as i can tell they were redundant.
there are 4 low-fuel sensors, only 2 are needed, 1 failed.
yet they say if 1 fails its an automatic scrub no questions asked.
so i guess the redundant sensors are required also heh
...maybe it's time to put NASA down. The old dog just can't hunt no more. I still believe that space exploration should be the number one priority of the human race, but it's starting to look like NASA may be hindering that more than helping. The money would probably be better spent sponsoring things like the X-Prize.
I can't blame them. They are under a lot of pressure for this launch and need it to go off perfectly. If there was to be any type of situation or accident NASA would never recover. They need positive media coverage from this, and plenty of it!
Voice your opinion!
Are we becoming so risk averse that we will significantly slow or stop the tide of exploration?
How the heck did NASA put men on the moon in a decade? They did not have a bunch of high tech crap that they have now, it was the ability to take risks.
Perhaps Nasa should take a lesson from Henry Ford. Forget multi-billion dollar boondoggles (with quadruple backups out the wazzoo) like the shuttle. build a freaking factory to mass produce a SIMPLE, STANDARDIZED rocket.
Either that or let free enterprise take over...
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The shuttle is one of the most complex objects ever built by humans. One sensor goes bad out of millions of parts, and people are screaming about "horrible quality". Some people just always need something to bitch about.
When I was in high school, many years ago, the fuel sensor in my beat up jalopy didn't work, and the fuel gauge always read empty.
I just kept a few gallons of gas in the trunk of the car in case I ran out.
There was no problem. In fact, on some Saturday nights with the right herbal accoutrements, the car served as a fine transport vehicle for trips to outer space (and that's when it was parked in the ally behind the Burger King).
So just put a few gallons of fuel in the trunk of the shuttle, and tell the astronauts to watch out for the space cops, and problem solved.
The Internet is generally stupid
We've all seen those enormous fuel tanks, you sure as hell don't need a sense to know it's there!!! Just look out the window
Sad as it is to say, but 'splosions are about the only thing that get the public to care about the space shuttle.
At least there's Mars, bitches.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
It's not one bad part, the past few weeks lots of things have gone bad. Yesterday or the day before a plastic window fell off and broke some tiles by the tail.
Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
...If you don't screw the gas cap on tight enough it turns on the "Service Engine soon" light. My hypothesis is that this is to encourage less intelligent customers to take the car to the dealer to figure out what is "wrong."
I, of course, get my diagnostic codes read for free at AutoZone...
Who did what now?
I think it's best not to reference "news sources" that announce "SEN. MCCAIN STARS IN BOOB RAUNCH FEST" in 20-point text concerning his participation in Wedding Crashers, with a tiny link at the top to NASA information.
Space travel has is quite dangerous and because of all the negative publicity (crash of the Columbia) I understand that NASA absolutely wants this mission to be a success. Launching it now and having another accident might have nasty consequences for manned space travel.
Men Who write on Lavatory Walls,
should roll their shit into little balls.
Men who read these words of wit,
should eat these little balls of shit.
--Anonymously posted from the walls of a public restroom near you!
I used to work close to the NASA factory in New Orleans, where the main booster tank is made. They would shut down for the two weeks before fat tuesday 'cause they didnt want drunks making rockets parts. Chances are they installed the sensor the day after fat tuesday....look at it this way, would you want (or trust) rocket parts made in a city that kicked MADD (mothers against drunk drivers) out in 1977? Its a crazy fun place, everyone should visit N.O. sometime, but IMHO its not a good place to make rocket parts...
#include bier;
If this shuttle experiences a problem, espically one that leads to loss of life, it could spell doom for the US space program for a long time. The public would likely get so worked up that they'd demand a shutdown.
So NASA has to work really hard to make sure this goes off well, even if it means being stupidly careful.
they launch when one of the four fuel sensors is working.
-"Hey, I think i fixed it!"
-"Give it a little gas."
*boom*
-"Whoops. Nevermind."
The work the goes on at NASA is more vital than you realize. The fact that this launch is getting so much publicity is great, because most other shuttle missions barely get a nod from the masses.
Being funny is my sig nature.
Well, geez- a window cover falls off, knocks some tiles off the ship, then a faulty sensor? Chitty Chitty Bang Bang had a better chance of making it into space than this jalopy! John
Heh, early days. Those air frames are (allegedly) good for 200 launches. Expect not to see a replacement in your life time. If you think its old now what you are going to describe it as to the grandkids?
Bummer, there goes my goof off time at work for today!0 8&tid=187
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/12/20532
Crunch!
They do have redundant sensors.
...mission scrubbed.
But if one of them fails, you don't have redundancy, thus safety is at risk...
IOW redundancy is there to help you return safely. Its not what you use to get off the ground.
IOOW if you know your backup parachute doesn't work, you don't just jump anyway.
He helped push the Clinton Impeachment with "breaking news" and crap like that.
Basically a wannabe Murdoch but having to stick with a syndicated radio show and pathetic website. Republicans can't get enough of him.
Okay, a *few* bad parts. It's still to be expected given the number of parts and the conditions they have to endure. Frankly, I'm impressed they don't have more problems. Think about the forces and temperatures (both in space and in a liquid hydrogen fuel tank) these things have to work under.
This whole space program is a huge waste of money anyway. I say scrap the whole thing, with the exception of monitoring things that have already been launched, like Pioneer, Voyager and those doodads on Mars.
Take all the money you save (and all those smart people) and assign the task of making America energy independant within 10 years. With any luck, the oil won't run out before then, and you will have solved a huge immediate problem while still employing all those scientists and spending all those tax dollars. (I'd thought about suggesting giving the tax dollars back to the taxpayers, but that seems to be too revolutionary an idea for this government right now.)
Reality has a liberal bias
When they are up there and low fuel sensor light goes on , it is not as if they can pull up to the nearest gas station to refuel
On a slightly more related note, they once got a call from a shuttle astronaut saying he was something like "700 miles over Hawaii" which they played along with pretending it meant "North of." He proceeded to describe some of the characteristics of his vehicle (0 to 17 m/s in 5 minutes, fuel tank holds 20,000 gallons or whatever, etc.) and of course the brothers wanted to know what color it was.
Ah, NASA may just have a real bad feeling about fuel sensors, the number 13, and things falling off and damaging the shuttle...
- Apollo 13
Personally, I believe any engineer at NASA involved with the shuttle should be able to hit the big STOP button if they find an anomaly, until it absolutely, positively can be corrected.
Why on earth link the Druge Report of all things? He doesn't have anything on this, just a link to a news site. It's not as if the jerk needs the pr.
That didn't sound too critical
You're showing ignorance and lack of clarity in your thought. You obviously have no idea that those tanks empty into a turbopump that is running at tremendous speeds, and that a sudden 'run dry' condition at full power is not minor, but can in fact lead to catastrophic loss of the turbopump, the engine, and/or the vehicle.
Sound a little more serious now?
OK, so there is a caveat- the out-of-fuel condition described cannot happen in a nominal launch because the tank would have been jettisoned before that point arrives. So, this system is something of a backup in case some other problem happens (like for example the fuel load is somehow vented by a defective and undetected vent system error). But, knowing that it is not working is most decidedly a launch abort situation.
Now go back to your reality tv mental masturbation and leave real rocket science to those with a mind...
Yeah, they have 4 sensors in the hydrogen tank, and they really only need two to work, and they know the tank is full 'cause they've been topping it off all morning. However, consider what would happen if the sensor was correct. If the fuel flow drops below a certain limit, as the sensor indicatd today, at least one of the main engine's high pressure fuel turbopumps would literally explode (this thing is spinning at 35,360 rpm), causing the engine it's mounted to to explode, likely causing the other engines to explode, causing the external tank to explode, causing the orbiter to come apart, causing the crew to die.
And even before Columbia, they would have scrubbed a launch inder these same conditions.
I agree that the conditions that these parts endure are extreme, but that is what they're designed for.
A window should never fall off, it should've been tested, found a weak spot and replaced. What would've happened if it didn't fall off. It most likely would've come off during liftoff, which is probably the second most traumatic time for the shuttle after re-entry.
These shuttles are old, they need more attention then they used to.
I am glad that they are scrubbing the mission for saftey. I'd rather it be years before we get back to space than to lose a few more astronauts.
Hmmm witty sig or funny sig? Maybe elitest techy sig!
like my wife, who was at the Michoud Assembly Facility (where they build the big red tank in New Orleans) at 3AM this morning watching a computer screen readout of temperatures on the bipod heaters and the bellows heaters.
It sucks because she has to wake up at 2 am tommrow and do the same thing.
I know one thing, she's probably really glad she wasn't in the situation to have to scrub the launch. I mean, you you have any idea how much that costs?
Also it sucks that i am more excited about it than she is, and all i get is crappy fox news
Also, think about strapping a 70's era buick to a giant coke can filled with the most voliatle stuff you can find, getting the whole world to watch as you are about to shoot it into space, then have the entire thing scrapped because the 70's style break light goes out.
And. the computer that controls the systems on board the shuttle has a system memory of 256K.. that's right -->K
Also, if you think that i am a bad speller you are correct.
In Soviet Russia, shuttles launch NASA!
Two of the sensors are used to detect low levels of liquid hydrogen propellent, the other two low levels of liquid oxygen. The sensors are used to make sure that the main shuttle engines shut down properly prior to the sudden loss of fuel. The sensors are also most likely placed at key points, where the liquid oxygen and hydrogen feeds into the TWO main engines. Each engine has to be supplied with each propellent, and the sensors are designed to protect each engine. Two propellents per engine for two engines equals FOUR SENSORS Accessing this area is difficult, and NASA is very unlikely to launch with a faulty sensor. Especially when they had this same sensor anomally appear on a previous fill test, BUT WERE UNABLE TO DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. NASA swapped parts and continued with the scheduled launch after another fill test FAILED to reproduce this sensor anamoly. After today they will be looking very closely at this. Their launch window ends July 31st. We'll find out today before 5pm EST what they are planning on doing.
So apparently this photo was taken after they cancelled the launch. They seem pretty happy about it lol.. "Phewwwf..we dodged that one"
[alk]
nt..
I'll give you three reasons
1. Life expands to fill available niches-territory. (also harder to become extinct as a speices if we colonize space)
2. Untapped resources.
helium-3 mining on the moon for fusion, rare earth minerals from asteroids, etc.
3. New frontier.
With the ability to colonize the moon/mars, we have a new frontier which would allow the more independent and/or persecuted somewhere to go.
I am not saying Nasa is the answer, just that there are viable reasons to send people...
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Cnn has just reported that a launch will be heald no earlier than monday.
Everything Made in Taiwan!
However, this redundant system is only used during launch..
Conspiracy? They just came to their senses.
After Apollo 13 (a mission that even started at 13:13) engineering has thankfully decided not to tempt fate on the 13th day of any month.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Pudge, tireless defender of the rightwing. Dittohead since 1982.
The space shuttle was designed in the 1970s (some prelim work was even done in the 60s) as an experimental vehicle that was to retire by the 1980s. We've learned a lot from it, but it's time to put it to rest. Keep putting band aides on the thing is not the answer. Imagine if the airlines were flying Lindburgs plane or the Wright Flyer! Those vechicles time has past, and so too for the shuttle.
Haven't they seen Kramer , test driving the new car and seen how much more you can go even with the low fuel sensor light on ?
The coverage of the launch today was enormous. HDNET had BIG plans. Coverage for HDNET started around 11am. The video is/was amazing. Will they preempt all programming tomorrow and try again?
MSNBC was the first cable news to promote major coverage, other news organizations soon followed. I wonder if they'll have live coverage all afternoon tomorrow like they did today.
It was an expensive day for all of them.
It wasn't a window that fell off. It was a window protective cover, one that is removed before launch. Geez. Get the facts straight before blowing it out of proportion.
And why does everyone refer to the age of the shuttles? The catastrophic failures all were caused by the ET and SRBs. They use a new ET fro each mission, and the SRBs are reused in segments after careful inspection (the top segment in one of the SRBs for this launch was used in STS-1). The RCC panel that got punctured by the foam may not even have been the original piece from 1981 since the thermal protection system is inspected after every return and damaged components are replaced.
-- nolesrule
The window didn't fall off. A panel that covers the windows before launch did. In other words, it's a temporary part that's intended to be removed before anything happens.
When asked, those same astronauts whose lives are at risk generally think the risk is worth it. Spaceflight isn't safe. You're packing overevolved monkeys into a tin can and shooting them out of the atmosphere of the planet they evolved on, using enormous amounts of energy in the process. What part of that sounds safe, exactly?
Now, sure, that doesn't mean we can't mitigate risks to some degree, but it will take improvements of several orders of magnitude in materials science and in the creation of energy before the whole thing even begins to resemble something a normal, risk-averse ape should do. The astronauts know what they're getting into. Frankly, I'd probably risk it, too.
Can't they just do what I do in my old MGB and set the odometer to 0 before they start and go by the mileage?
Of course, I only got 1 to 50 odds, so my profit is a miserly $100.
But it was a sure win.
It's Mega-Maid! She's gone from suck to blow!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
RTFA dude. It was a window cover. To keep the birds from shitting on the windows. They were designed to be removed prior to launch, not fall off randomly. I'm sure some stupid tech forgot a clamp or a screw, or the damn thing got nipped by Emily's distant but powerful muscles.
It is all part of the emmissions control system found in most vehicles today. Also - depending on the age of your car (and which OBD system it is using) - when that light comes on your computer might tweak engine settings such that you are in a "limp home" mode (putting out more pollution) - or into a mode to deal with the descreased fuel pressure.
Basically, the computer switches things to try to lessen the pollution (and still keep the engine running) until you can get it fixed. So - get it fixed! Tightening the cap at best is a temporary solution (you should always make sure your cap is tight, though - but you should never have to wrench it down) - the gasket/seal on the cap is probably shot (or the overpressure device in the cap is probably busted or close to it). Wrenching it down (if this is what you are doing when you say you tighten it more) will only make the seal/gasket fail faster. Quit being cheap, go down to AutoZone, and buy a new cap....
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Drudge is like slashdot: he collects news from other sources and posts links to it on his web page. Somehow he has connections with various reporters and can sometimes scoop scoops that aren't being properly scooped. For instance, he broke the Monica Lewinsky story that was being sat on. Usually his scoops are of the 'tomorrow, newspaper X is going to report this'
/.: instead another roland pick-a-pay-eh piece was run)
His dupes are intentional and usually because something has been added to the story.
He does not have commentary (but he does have a huge number of links to professional editorialists)
Sometimes his headlines are almost as sensational as slashdot headlines would be. (I've seen nerd news on drudge that never appeared on
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I'm sorry, my bad. There's nothing wrong with the fuel sensor. I just forgot to fill the tank.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Somebody is downgrading anti-drudge postings. Somebody is using a lot of mod points to supress comments against drudge. Set your tin foil hats to max.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
The Russians do that - and their safety record is no better than NASA's
The question is if their safety record is comparable, are mass produced rockets a cheaper alternative?
I seem to remember the russians can loft ALOT more payload into space than the shuttle can.
The thing that gets me is the lack of mass production....
The shuttle was supposed to be an easy,cheap and reliable way to launch stuff. It was also supposed to have a short turnaround time between launches. It seems fairly obvious that Nasa is going to launch stuff into space for years to come. That being the case it would seem to be cheaper to build a production line capable of cranking out a heavy lifting rocket just like model T's.
Regarding the mission scrubs, there are risks and unneccessary risks. I think at the time of apollo the nation accepted that while safety was a major consideration we would lose people.
BTW How much redundant hardware did the apollo's have for most systems? Triple systems, quadruple systems?
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...are already doing that. Or there must be another explanation why they can launch their stuff (which is rebuild each time) properly on time ?
Not to say nasa should disregard safety, just that there are other ways to solve the problem - by dumping the shuttle for instance.
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I was stuck in slow moving traffic at 30m west of the launch pad when it got cancelled; I had to turn round and come back. Too bad I won't be in the area next week...that was my one and only chance to catch a shuttle launch.
There have been thunderstorms every night over orlando, which must be the concern.
Jeez, this is just like an American car... first one of the windows falls out, now the gas gauge doesn't work. Maybe they should farm out shuttle production to Germany... I hear they know how to build decent rockets.
And not launching because the gas gauge is broken?? "Hey kids, sorry, we aren't going to Disneyland, the gas gauge isn't working". Right.
How much is that sensor or the "box"? $30, $100 ?
The scrub costs $1 or $2 MILLION?
I like the idea of a small control center, like you saw on Spaceship One out in Mojave with less than 20 people. This is government overkill, the Spaceship One people proved that.
And replace all those cables going to the launch pad with one or two (redundant) ethernet cables. Damn guys, it's 2005, get with it!
Astronauts MUST go through ALL Airport Checking Procedures!
I bet they hiding manicure scissors in their shoes
Yesterday. Faulty fuel sensor my arse. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=155656&cid=130 49588
When we take the shuttle back to the dealer they're going to rape us!
if sign.nil? Sig.new
there was also a very briefly reported on problem this morning with the fuel tank heaters. they had to send a team out to the pad to investigate/fix it 45 minutes after the mission control manager ok'd the fuel tank for filling. i'm wondering if all these budget cuts and slashed government funding are starting to show themselves...
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
They just said in the press briefing that they have never tested what happens if the shuttle engine runs out of gas.
The guy said "we don't want to go there".
I assume because the engine would most likely blow up. But I would think that is something they need to know in case it ever came time to push the limits of fuel.
one of four fuel sensors that have to work at -400 degrees (I don't recall if NASA TV said C or F... I would guess C)
Absolute zero is -273.15 C, so he probably didn't say -400 C. -400 F sounds more likely.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
While the Chineese, the Russians and the Arianne is launching rockets like it was the 4th of July the Shuttle is firmly stationed at the ground. How come the US abandoned the rockets for the Shuttle? The cost/launches factor of the Shuttle must be awful compared to the Russian and the Chineese rockets.
I dont know much about space vehicles but it sure looks like NASA dont either.
HTTP/1.1 400
"The Auto Industry has forgotten this lesson. Every model year is a complete re-design from the ground up, that tends to create as many problems as the fix from last year's model."
Umm, no.
In fact, from year to year there is almost no change in the base-model vehicle of any given manufacturer. Body shape doesn't count as a ground-up redesign. Most cars undergo nearly no change at all for at least a decade.
Honda Civic
Toyota Camry
Ford Escort
Chevy Cavalier
Subaru Legacy
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
I've intentionally left out several vehicles, because they are actualy identical cars, with the only difference being the styling (Cavalier and Sunfire, for example).
That's why it's such a big deal when somebody *does* take the time and effort to redesign their vehicles. A single generation in the auto industry can be anywhere from 6-12 years before a major redesign, and usually that redesign does nothing to change the chassis or power/drivetrain.
If the auto industry did a from-the-ground redesign every year (or even every generation), cars would be prohibitively expensive, and production would slow to a crawl thanks to the re-tooling the production plants would have to undergo on a regular basis.
The external fuel tank was blamed for the Columbia accident, so they've extensively redesigned it this time round. The problem isn't that the tank is getting old: It's that it's new and untested.
it's interesting you pointed that out. The shuttles themselves don't catastrophically fail.
the platforms themselves are arcanely designed. I'm not an engineer, but my casual knowledge of the science leads me to believe that there are simpler and more cost effective ways of getting astronauts to orbit and delivering payloads, etc. 24,000+ unique tiles in your heat shield cannot be a good thing. The other thing I'm perturbed by is the lack of a redundant heat shield layer (although there might be and I'm just not aware of it). Does anyone know if each tile has its own sensor with temperature tolerance? Can't they just RFID that now - place an RFID sensor in the core of each tile and record the highest temperature attained and change every one that passes a critical value?
Or to be critically redundant, shouldn't they change every tile after EVERY LAUNCH?
It's the arcane complexity of the platform that is ultimately the space shuttle's shortcoming. It wasn't designed to scale well nor to be an evolutionary trunk to advanced space flight design.
Anybody ever play EMPIRE EARTH? In Deathmatch mode, you can defeat an opposing country in two ways: destroy all capitals, buildings, and military units... or you can build three WONDERS and defend them for a thousand years. IMO the space shuttle was designed to be a wonder, an indisputable artifact of US superiority designed with the cold war in mind.
It's the platform itself that is old. It's an arcane design for an analog world. It's like apples and oranges, trying to maintain that. The platform has outlived the meager slice of usefulness it had.
un burrito me trampeó.
.. with fuel pump and all strainers...
... and stop playing with stuff only physicists should handle, especially if you cannot keep your cryo tank heaters under control, and cryo fuel sensors!
.... like 3.8 times the fuel booked into the tank ...
this was $600 on my car, recently
design advantage here: no need to drop the fuel tank
Get real, this is the direct consequence of this stuff rotting for months on the ramp.
Looking at the fallen window cover (which camera they said detected it and documented where it hit , so they can go and check the surface there...), tank heater (just use some external heating tape as we do in the vacuum lab), fuel sensor,
I am fine with any reason they come up to scrub the entire thing.
NASA, admit it: shoddy work, lack of quality, clueless management overriding expert advice for political reasons.
Well, the result fires back badly for the political reasons.
This is the laughing stock of the world!
Civils go to space with a rubber engine, showing the way (no government nor politics involved, so experts can run the show, as they did at NASA when the moon was in the scope, especially imported experts!).
However, this thing is creating jobs, so keep it going, but don't leave the pad.
Sure, there are people out there (and in here) who don't like to hear it:
IT IS A 100% FAILURE!!!! Throwing money at it won't help, and self sufficient faces and arrogant talk won't convince nobody that it is otherwise.
It is a luck that this thing is designed in thumb foot elbow metrics; imagine what would happen if they would do the same error as with the umnanned Mars probes that ran into the ground by a distance factor of 3.33
I do actually like the things not tested, like, what happens if this modulated rocket engine starves (remember, they throttle it to keep the acceleration at 3G). Sure, the fuel sensors never showed 'empty soon'......
Actually, there's a reason for this. To say that someone was "speeding" is to claim they're committing an offence. A "high rate of speed" doesn't necessarily mean being over the limit. I know they use cop-speak all the time ("the car was blue in color") but this one has a purpose.
So I send a text message from my cellphone to post a request in my blog for friends to text message me any breaking news.
Not ten minutes later, my cellphone rings. It's Boeing. (I have a friend who works for them with shuttle-related stuff. No one in his workplace was having a good day today. He took his antacids beforehand, as a precaution.)
From what he says, it looks like the whole goddamn batch of sensors is buggy; it's the same problem they had a month or two ago.
I love how I can be away from any conventional news source and still get breaking news ahead of major news sources.
Having worked on a 1986 Mercury Lynx (A rebadged 1985 Ford Escort) I can tell you a LOT changed over the years. Pick up the a Chilton's manual. Each section is devoted to a 4 year run of the car. Wireing harnesses change. Drive trains change. You have models with Dual Carborators, others with Fuel Injection. Some models have 1.9l engine. Others have a 2.4.
Even if you stick to just the base model, there are several revisions of the body style. You go from a boxy car, and as the years go on it get progressively rounder. One thing that infuriated me was trying to find a replacement reflector for a tail light. I scrounged a junkyard for hours trying to find a match, and let me tell you, there seems to be a different reflector for each model year.
I discovered that hard way that the wiring harness changed between 1985 and 1986 when I ordered the wrong parts to install a radio.
The Escort is probably the car I have the most intimate history with. I would venture a guess that someone with a similar experience repairing a Civic or a Cavelier would report the same goofiness with their cars.
Suburu is an odd cookie in the Automotive world. All of their cars are built on the principle of "design it once" with minor bug fixes between model years. That is probably why there is one parked in front of my house.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming