Ubuntu: Best Linux Desktop for Business?

sebFlyte writes "ZDNet has been testing Linux for business, trying to work out what the best distro is for small businesses. After testing Mandriva Linux 2006, Novell Linux Desktop 9, Red Hat Desktop 4, SUSE Linux 10 and Ubuntu Linux 5.1. After installing them all from scratch to simulate a new business set up, and extensive testing involving Gaim, Evolution, OpenOffice.org -- as well as actually writing each review on each distro -- Ubuntu came out as the winner. They summed it up saying 'Ubuntu is a well integrated, practical and absolutely free' and dismissed worries about support. SuSE came a close second."

Comments

Ubuntu 5.10

[the_g_cat]

Ubuntu 5.1 != Ubuntu 5.10. The first one doesn't even exist...

Re:Ubuntu 5.10

[kspiteri]

Ubuntu 5.1 != Ubuntu 5.10. The first one doesn't even exist...

Come on, if ZDNet says Ubuntu 5.1, then it must exist. We all know internet news sites are accurate. -- Run For Fun

Re:Ubuntu 5.10

[sik0fewl]

Wow! It's vapourware and it still wins!

Re:Ubuntu 5.10

[ottothecow]

They also only review Mandriva in terms of GNOME and well...being a KDE centric distro, my experiances with mandriva gnome have shown that it always requires extra setup and tweaking.

Ubuntu Year.Month

[my_breath_smells]

Actually its Ubuntu 5.10, not 5.1

Ubuntu X.Y corresponds to the release year (200X) and the release month(Y).
In this case it was October 2005 -> (10/05)
The next release will be Ubuntu 6.4 (April 2006))

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[MighMoS]

I was wondering how the hell they named their products, and why they started out at four point something.

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[gik]

See, this is why people find geeks so wierd. How do you explain to your Dad, upon finally getting him to agree to rid his system of Windows XP, and install a flashy new bug and virus free Ubuntu that the numbers "5.1" and "5.10" mean TOTALLY different things? My Dad would just stand there and shake his head at me: "We came to this country for you to get an education...". ... At least it's better than having to explain to my Mom that Microsoft Office isn't "where Google is". Or where all the "sexy pictures" come from on his computer. Shudder.

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[Narcissus]

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but I was under the impression that the numbers 5.1 and 5.10 are different things as the latter has more significant figures.

I don't know if that equates to TOTALLY different, and I know that this is not really what you were talking about anyway, but at least you have a comeback to your dad...

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[floamy]

And what happens in 2010? 0.X?

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[Nermal6693]

Actually, the next release will be 6.04 :)

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[kalakala]

10.X

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[aichpvee]

Maybe they'll switch to letters.

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[Doc Ruby]

Your dad is some kind of geek, if he thinks "1" and "10" are different because of their amount of "significant figures". My dad thinks that 10 comes after 1.

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[zootm]

I believe that Mark Shuttleworth was asked this in an interview, and didn't come up with a very conclusive answer (to be fair, it's 4-and-a-bit years away!).

I don't see a problem with 10.4 or whatever, though.

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[rtechie]

A versioning scheme that is IN NO WAY confusing!

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[Simon Garlick]

And what happens in 2010? 0.X?

You don't really get it, do you?

Re:Ubuntu Year.Month

[floamy]

I get it just fine. The parent put the variable in the fourth digit. I doubt that's entirely accurate.

SuSE 10

[jurt1235]

I am using SuSE 10 with KDE. Hardware support is great compared to v9, configuration works great, and downloaded it all for free from the SuSE ftp website. So where does the non-free part come in? Support? Also for SuSE there are user forums, not much different than Ubuntu, or about any other linux distro for that matter.

Re:SuSE 10

[tpgp]

So where does the non-free part come in?

Why do you say that? The review says "SUSE Linux is available as a free unsupported download,"

That said, I don't believe Suse has any guarantees about prices of future products - whereas Ubuntu says on their front page:

"Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms."

Re:SuSE 10

[jurt1235]

Enterprise editions are effectivily free too. Redhat, SuSE ea just have to keep the GPL. The software on the enterprise editions is mainly GPL software, or other opensource license software. The idea behind the enterprise editions is not the software, but the support model.

The non-free response was a response on the /. article header.

Re:SuSE 10

[tpgp]

The non-free response was a response on the /. article header.

Article Header:

'Ubuntu is a well integrated, practical and absolutely free'

Just because they mention Ubuntu is integrated, practical and absolutely free doesn't mean they mean they think Suse is unintegrated, impractial and non-free ;-)

And yes, I generally agree with you about enterprise editions - but it would be nice to know the free edition is going to be around forever.

I trust communities like Debian, Gentoo and (to a lesser extent) Ubuntu for this peace of mind far more the companies like Red Hat, Novell, etc.

Re:SuSE 10

[houghi]

but it would be nice to know the free edition is going to be around forever.

Not sure if SUSE will be free. SUSE OSS will certainly be free. It is the OS that is made by the community on http://opensuse.org/

Re:SuSE 10

[jurt1235]

You are correct (-: However, install SuSE 9.2 and you will get the absolutele feeling of unintegrated for once (-:
Luckily 10.0 is good again.

About trust: Add "I trust Patrick Volkerding" for me to the list.

Re:SuSE 10

[alchamy]

Have to agree here, SuSE 10 is awesome, no hassles and its works first time for everything, its also much quicker than previous releases.

Xandros

[Tiberius_Fel]

I'm surprised they didn't test Xandros - I interviewed with them a couple of months ago, and they specialize in business-oriented Linux...

Re:Xandros

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I second that. Xandros Business Desktop 3 (as the name suggests) should have been included in the comparison. Otherwise it is downright unfair. And believe me, since I am also their beta tester for sometime, it would have beaten everyone hands down in ease of installation to integration into existing Windows networks -- and the last point is *damn important* no matter what you may think!

Re:Xandros

[HangingChad]

Why did the parent get moded Redundant for that? I like Xandros a lot. It's a great business distro for people coming out of Windoze World.

I'd like to try comparing Xandros to Ubuntu. Haven't tried either of them on a laptop. That would be an interesting comparison.

Ubuntu

[mihaicapota]

I use it at home and I love it but it looks like the developer's claims of Ubuntu being suitable for server and workstation are true.

Couldn't agree more

[DavidNWelton]

As a long time Debian user and contributor, it's good to see a system that has all the advantages of Debian, plus the financial backing and willpower to take off some of the rough edges that a volunteer-only structure isn't really suited to deal with. I installed Ubuntu on my new computer at work the other day. My boss was so impressed that he installed it himself on another computer, and he's not really a technical guy.

Re:Couldn't agree more

[vivek7006]

I installed Ubuntu on my new computer at work the other day. My boss was so impressed that he installed it himself on another computer, and he's not really a technical guy.

Bullshit...

Re:Couldn't agree more

[H0p313ss]

No really... if it's the only OS on the harddrive, Ubuntu is easier to install than anything Microsoft ever released.

If you have a spare partition getting it to dual-boot with XP is not too bad either, but not recommended to anyone who's never played with a partition editor.

I've been using Linux since 0.99 and I've gone from Slackware to FreeBSD to Red Hat to Fedora to SUSE to Ubuntu. The Ubuntu install is almost painless. In fact it's damn near fun! (Though Fedora and SUSE were pretty good too... in fact I'd like to get a look at the latest SUSE..)

The only step that was unintuitive was getting the NVidia drivers and Cedega working. But even that was possible from resources on the web without editing any config files.

Re:Couldn't agree more

[afrank]

I agree that it's great to see Debian-based distros get some press, but what about Debian? I recently put Ubuntu Breezy on my portable, expecting great advantages over Debian Sid, and was greatly disappointed. Instead of drastic improvements, I was stifled by not having immediate access to my "Run Application" button in Gnome, not being able to see kernel-loading messages, not being able to access the Login Manager in GDM, and in general not finding any improvements beyond the current state of Debian. I'm not saying I don't like Ubuntu. It's still on my portable (just barely). All I'm saying is it's certainly not any better than Debian Unstable, and, IMHO, it's not a replacement. Call me a fool for Debian, but I wouldn't trade it for the world =) How about instead of putting Ubuntu up against a bunch of RPM-based distributions, you throw Debian itself in the mix there and see how it fares? Again, just my opinion...

Re:Couldn't agree more

[KanSer]

It's no bullshit. Read my post here, http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166472&cid=138 85558 it explains how I gave a 5.10 install disk to a man with brain injuries who was able to install it(By himself) without a single hitch. Everything worked out of the box.

Honestly, can any other distro say that like Ubuntu can now? As for Windows, those morons don't even have a decent driver base that Windows Update can query and download from so it's their own damn fault you can't detect new stuff.

Now, I know many bosses seem more brain-injured than this guy actually is, but it really is quite an accomplishment that the Ubuntu team should be really proud of. If my office hadn't already shelled for a bundle of 2k licenses before I got here, we'd all be running Ubuntu.

Re:Couldn't agree more

[poopdeville]

I like Debian a lot. But I really wish their installation "packages" were a little finer grained. I'm referring to the point in the installation where the installer asks what role the machine is supposed to fill. If you declare that you're going to use the machine as a desktop, the installer installs something like 900 packages, most of which I have no interest in. And if I don't set it up as a desktop, I have to go and run apt by myself to install something like 150 packages. Getting on topic, Ubuntu seems even worse in this regard. It's a huge pain in the dick.

Re:Couldn't agree more

[cloudmaster]

Oh, I don't see the problem with selecting between "server" (install a stripped-down bare minimum system that doesn't even have an ssh server for goodness sake) and "desktop" (install a whole bunch of games, and a few desktop apps, whether you want that or not - and still no ssh server). Wait, maybe I do see the problem...

Then, I also have a problem with Ubuntu requiring 64MB RAM to install, even though the installed system only requires 32 (and I think that number was pulled out of thin air). It makes installing on a couple of my low memory systems (router/firewall/non-caching DNS/etc - don't need lots of RAM) a royal pain. Debian and Gentoo are the same. Stupid ramdisks, even with netboot. The installer should only need a kernel with maybe some modules, init, and mount on an initrd - the rest can be NFS mounted. At least Slackware still works on those systems. Having a single distro on all machines would be handy, though, and reduce my local mirror size by reducing the number of things I have to mirror. :)

Quite an extensive review

[El_Muerte_TDS]

They really explained all good and bad points of the distros they tested.
After reading the article I think my intelligence actually dropped.

Re:Quite an extensive review

[MighMoS]

*shrugs* Its thanksgiving, and a low news-volume day (at least here in the US where we celebrate our ansestors taking a break from killing all the natives)

Re:Quite an extensive review

[codemangler]

Quite an extensive review (Score:4, Funny)

That was my first impression. Till I realized you had to click the links for the 5 distros tested, where they really did have extensive reviews.

Ubuntu makes me smile!

[endemoniada]

I started using Ubuntu on my laptop, and I haven't booted into windows once since then.

I'm glad to finally be able to say that there is a GNU/Linux distribution out there that "Just Works!" (tm).

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[trayl]

Ubuntu makes me smile as well. Debian with 2.6 refused to install on my Dell Precision M70, and 2.4 installed but without wifi unless I was prepared to build some dubious port by a guy who claims to not own the hardware so any install is at users own risk.

But ubuntu with 2.6 installed great and found wifi fine.

Until you need to play some WMV3 video.... then its a boot into windows. sigh

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[Fallingcow]

Until you need to play some WMV3 video.... then its a boot into windows. sigh

Have you installed the Win32Codecs?

I'm not familiar with WMV3, and I'm not certain that it's supported by the Win32Codecs package, but lots of non-free and Windows codecs are. Also, VLC comes with its own pack of codecs and can sometimes play stuff that other media players can't, so you might try that if you havn't already.

In addition, I'd recommend dumping Totem as your default media player, if you havn't already. It blows big time, and Ubuntu associating it with all audio and video is my only complaint about their default setup. Well, aside from the ugly-ass brown color scheme, but that doesn't affect usability.

Use VLC or Xine or Gxine or Mplayer for video, and XMMS or something similar for audio.

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[cp.tar]

The one and only OS on my stepmother's laptop is Ubuntu Linux.

Although she may not do much more than play some sort of solitaire, the other people who use it - namely, her two sons and my father, and neither of the four of them is exactly technical - find it rather simple to use it.

Of course, it was I that had to install it (the installation procedure - and everything else, really - is translated into Croatian quite horribly, and not all people speak English), but aside from that and a few FAQs for newbies (show the kids how to rip their CDs etc.), I have very little to do support-wise.

She didn't like the trackpad - OK, so she bought a USB mouse. She plugged it in and it worked.
Then she wanted to test the flash MP3 player that came with the laptop (it was either laptop+WinXP or laptop+MP3+some_crappy_Linux_distro_which_I_replac ed_with_Ubuntu) - she plugged it in and it worked.
Then my father wanted to download pictures from his digital camera - he plugged it in and it worked.

Again, they are not power users, but even for them, Linux is quite simple.
I just removed SuSE from my father's desktop machine and replaced it with Ubuntu; he seems to like it better.

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[Frogg]

some versions of totem use xine as the backed. so if you don't like the look (or something) of xine, and you believe totem offers enough options, then using totem with a xine backed.

unless of course you simply don't like totem or prefer something other than totem.

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[Fallingcow]

I've tried both the Gstreamer and Xine backends for Totem on Ubuntu. It still sucks. It's very slow to start, slow to load new files, has an ugly and weird interface (mind you, I think that Xine's and Mplayer's aren't that great either, though Gxine is a step in the right direction--if only they didn't leave out so many very useful menu options in it!), and it often crashes.

I think Gxine and whatever that KDE media player is that uses Mplayer or Xine for the backend are the future for media programs on Linux. They're not there yet, but I think they will be soon. That and VLC, which will probably never go away, as it is simply too useful. Right now, I use Xine and VLC mostly, MPlayer when I need to do something weird that only it can do (certain stuff with subtitles can't be done in Xine).

Totem looks to be about a year's worth of development behind the very worst of the other media players, which is why I can't believe they made it the default.

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[muszek]

yeah, totem sucks big time. I use vlc for most of videos I watch. If something doesn't want to work, I try Xine (sometimes it helps). If I need subtitles for some reason, MPlayer is the way to go (it needed some tweaking, though... like adding a default font and changing some setting to make full screen work correctly).

anyways, it's a good idea to run Easy Ubuntu after you install the system. It downloads and installs a lot of proprietary stuff (various audio and video codecs, skype, etc).

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[THE ROCK]

I never had much luck playing most videos in windows until I downloaded the ACE mega codecs package off a DC++ user. Its a nasty hack but once its installed you could play almost every format ever conceived.

I wish there was a linux equivalent.

In my experience (as a recent convert to FreeBSD+KDE for my main desktop) the video codecs available are a little immature and just need some polishing. They remind me of what it was like watching videos on windows about 4-5 years ago. That is to say it can be hit and miss quality wise. Codecs in windows are pretty bullet proof now, and even poorly encoded videos display quite well.

For video I use vlc and mplayer...its my experience that if of those programs can't handle a video very well, the other one will. They even play obscure formats like matrosky or whatever its called. Also, the mplayer mozilla plugin works beautifully for me.

For audio check out BMP (beep media player, based on xmms but uses gtk2 instead of 1.2) or audacious (which is a new fork of bmp now that bmp development is dead.) These programs are a decent reproduction of the winamp interface, and even support most types of streaming. The only type of streams I haven't been able to get to work are certain asx encapsulated wma streams, and I think thats cause of some drm bullshit.

Some ppl get a hardon when they talk about amarok for audio, but I tried it and didn't care for it. An audio player shouldn't bring a p4 to its knees, but thats what amarok did to me. Too bad because it looked pretty good from what I read.

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[jma05]

I am glad it worked for you but Ubuntu and most other Linux/Unix distros only worked for me as a server. Several years ago, when I first looked at Linux as Red Hat 7.0 I griped about bad looks, unintuitive GUI, not enough software, hard package management. Now all those issues are gone. But one problem remains. Hardware support. The Linux devs have done their work but now the ball is not in their court. Till the hardware vendors start coming up with driver support the same way they do for windows, Linux will not spread at the rate it deserves.

I have a PVR, a PDA, a Graphics card, a Camera and a Webcam sitting here. None of them work with any Linux I tried. Sound did not work in my latest Ubuntu install, but that not been the case before. I am not willing to hunt down issues for all of these each time I try a new distro hoping it would solve my problems. Ubuntu Desktop comes closer than any other Linux so far, but not quite there, at least for me. I know many of you had better luck than me and I hope more support comes along.

Re:Ubuntu makes me smile!

[poofyhairguy82]

Totem looks to be about a year's worth of development behind the very worst of the other media players, which is why I can't believe they made it the default.

I LOVE Totem-xine in Breezy. Its my favorite media player. The play list is nice, it always works with every file I try, it has great Xinerama support (aka it knows that when I want to go full screen on a video it should do it on the monitor I drag it on), and its the only Xine to work well with Xcompmgr.

I used to like Gxine more, but with the newest totem-xine things work great for me and I am to run composite all the time. So I guess to each to their own. Its easy to replace, and none can legally work out of hte box for most media anyway.

One little additional remark

[jurt1235]

Some, notably SUSE and Ubuntu, also worked well on our test notebook -- which might surprise those who think of Linux as purely a desktop or server OS.

I have used several laptops with several linux distros (Slackware,Debian,SuSE), and they all worked OK. Definition of OK is: You are able to tweak your kernel and your X server, and you are totally OK. New versions of the distros pretty much install without a glitch on any of the systems I have standing around here (dual PII, PIII, PIV, laptop). So that remark about the laptop is pretty redundant in my opinion.

Re:One little additional remark

[hungrygrue]

That is one thing that has amazed me about Ubuntu, actually. I have run *MANY* distros over the last 10+ years, and have not run Windows since version 3.1 in 1995. I am used to having to do some work to get my X configuration correct, to get sound working at all, etc. I am now running Ubuntu, and have not had to touch a single configuration file. This is on a laptop, an eMachines M6805. The wide screen display (1280x800) was correctly configured - I had naturally expected it to choose 1024x768 and have to edit the xorg.conf to fix it. Sound works. It detected the wireless and built in ethernet, allowed me to select the wireless and enter my WEP key during installation, even the media keys (volume, mail, etc.) were properly configured. Later, I had to install Windows XP in order to load maps onto my GPS - since this machine is designed to run Windows, I didn't expect to have any compatibility issues, but *surprise*! The screen resolution was wrong, the wireless card was not detected at all, sound does not work. I don't know if it configured the media keys correctly or not as I have only had to run Windows twice, once to load maps and later to setup my DSL which unfortunately could only be done by running the Windows coaster which SBC sent me. I assume that all that doesn't work under Windows could be fixed by hunting around for drivers, but the simple fact that no such work was needed under Ubuntu whereas Windows is unable to make use of all of this Windows hardware was quite a surprise.

Re:One little additional remark

[Fallingcow]

I'm not sure it's so much about it installing OK on the laptops and coming up with an X screen, as things like automatic setup of sleep and hibernation states, good automatic (and out-of-the-box, no setup necessary) detection and mounting of flash drives and external hard drives and hotplug detection and setup of PCMCIA devices.

Lots of distros still make you choose between doing some or all of those things manually, or setting up the automation of the tasks on your own. That's fine for power users, but it's nice to be able to pop in an Ubuntu CD, run the simple installation (no harder than the one for WinXP, and certainly faster), and boot into a system that does everything that a desktop user expects out of a modern OS without having to do any fiddling.

Hell, I *am* a power user and I prefer the way Ubuntu sets up stuff like that for my laptop. This 5.10 version kicks some serious ass. I never liked Red Hat or SuSE, but something about the way Ubuntu sets up the desktop by default just feels... right. It's pretty much the exact distro that I'd been wishing someone would make.

Re:One little additional remark

[hungrygrue]

I didn't buy the machine new, and since I needed to install Linux the copy of Windows XP which was installed was promptly replaced.

Re:One little additional remark

[Frogbert]

Another little remark:

I've used Ubuntu since Hoary and I was always impressed at its quality over previous linux distros I had tried, FC4 most notably. I reciently installed it on a relitivily modern laptop and realised once I had done setting it up it had actually been easier to install and get up to date then Windows.

With Windows XP I have to install it, then find my SP2 cd and install that, download a heap of updates. Then I have to download drivers to get everything to work and so on. Now Ubuntu isn't much different its just the process takes a lot less time and is easier to do. As soon as you are done installing the base system there is a pop up that tells you you need to update. So you click that wait a while for it to download and your done, you do need to restart once because there is a new kernal out but that is understandable and is still much better then the 5 or probably more times Windows XP needs. And with Automatix the rest of your setup is easier still.

I could not be more happy with my ubuntu laptop. There are even ATI video card driver packages available making for a very slick install.

Re:One little additional remark

[Anonymous Coward]

The Ubuntu live CD won't run on my computer: it fails when it tries to load the CD driver. Looking through the boot log I think it's having trouble with the Intel SATA controller. Anyway, my point is that no OS will install flawlessly on all hardware. You were lucky with Ubuntu and unlucky with Windows. It doesn't mean anything.

Re:One little additional remark

[VGPowerlord]

I hate playing devil's advocate for Microsoft, but when dealing with a laptop that came out in 2004, an OS released in 2005 (Ubuntu 5.10) should have better hardware support out of the box than an OS released in 2001 (Windows XP), when you don't have the CD that the manufacturer conveniently loaded all the drivers on to prevent this problem.

Re:One little additional remark

[OmnipotentEntity]

Unfortunately, for the longest time after SP2 was released the Windows XP CD didn't come with SP2 installed. In fact, as I recall the first group to have a CD which installed XP SP2 without having to patch was Dell, and they modified the install CD themselves because Microsoft was dragging their asses. Not to mention getting a new CD of Linux consists of downloading it, whereas obtaining a Windows XP SP2 cd legally usually requires paying for it again, or a very stout heart and a red face from arguing with Microsoft over the phone/internet. So, if you want to go through the hassle of "slipstreaming" SP2 into a XP installation disk more power to you I suppose, but it's easier to just carry around one the Network Admin downloadable SP2 patch on a CD if you already have a copy of XP.

Re:One little additional remark

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing is flawless in all cases, but Ubuntu does have a deserved reputation for bundling an appreciably wide and helpfully array of device drivers to help reduce the time taken to successfully install the system. It's got its drawbacks, but far more it has got its strengths.

It's not luck if Ubuntu has been developed with - relatively speaking - quite extensive driver support. It's far closer the norm. Although the lack of a CD driver in your case does sound unfortunate.

Re:One little additional remark

[zootm]

Try adding "irqpoll" to the boot command, I had a similar problem trying to install Ubuntu on one of my machines, turned out to be a problem with the new kernel revision.

Re:One little additional remark

[zootm]

Very true. A slipstreamed XP SP2 disk, at least, would be needed to provide a fair test.

Ubuntu has always been surprisingly good for me though. It doesn't work with my KVM switch, but then no OS but Windows ever has, for whatever reason.

Re:One little additional remark

[CastrTroy]

So why doesn't Microsoft provide updated copies of its OS with new computers that come out, instead of shipping the exact same disk they've been shipping for the last 5 years? Why don't they go around collecting all the new popular drivers, and have a database of them so it can download them right off the internet, automatically, without having to search around for them?

Re:One little additional remark

[koko775]

Support and Quality Control. 'nuff said.

Re:One little additional remark

[swillden]

Try doing the same with Warty which is newer than XP gold, you have to go through exactly the same process to get it up to Breezy but you have to upgrade to Hoary as a middle step.

You do? apt-get should be able to jump from Warty to Breezy in one step.

Re:One little additional remark

[scott_karana]

As nice as this idea is, it would be kind of a Catch-22 on many Windows machines I've set up.
My NIC doesn't work, so I can't get on the Internet: I can't get on the Internet, so I can't get my NIC to work.

Thank god for LiveCDs.

Re:One little additional remark

[CastrTroy]

Yeah, they really should make every effort to try and include drivers for all the NICs out there. It would help a lot in getting windows set up. It's amazing how many people lose those floppy disks that come with their network cards. Also, sometimes when upgrading to a new version of windows, the drivers on the floppy disk aren't supported under the new windows. Most current Linux distros are quite good at getting the network running without any problems. It's kind of sad that windows doesn't provide the same features.

Re:One little additional remark

[MrNiceguy_KS]

It doesn't work with my KVM switch, but then no OS but Windows ever has, for whatever reason.

I've had the same problem -- or at least, I assume it's the same problem where you can only use 640x480 resolution if you've got the KVM switch hooked up. I've found that if I switch the KVM to the Ubuntu box as soon as I turn it on, and leave it selected through the entire boot process, then I have all correct resolutions available. If Ubuntu (and several other distro's I've tried) isn't active on the KVM during boot - or most likely, when loading Xorg - then it doesn't detect the monitor and defaults to 640x480

Re:One little additional remark

[zootm]

I have different symptoms, based in the mouse emulation that the switch does. If I set up my mouse as a standard PS/2, with no special features and only two buttons (it's an MS Intellimouse, so this is quite a drop in functionality for a start), it works fine with KVM but moves really, really slow (I'm fairly sure this is due to just using the wrong X.org driver).

If I set it up as the correct mouse type (auto-configuration with the switch set to the Linux box does this) it works beautifully... until I switch to the other system and back again, at which point (I assume because of the emulation emulating another kind of mouse) it goes completely insane, pointer moving and clicking randomly whenever the mouse is moved.

It's possible that Windows just doesn't pay attention to mice "changing types" during a session.

Re:One little additional remark

[kcb93x]

Yes - you will need to get the drivers in order for Windows to work. 3rd restore CD has them. Well, the stock ones...I'd recommend tracking down the newer ones.

I also have the M6805...Ubuntu is wonderful on it, even the 64-bit. Last I checked I had to drop ndiswrapper on to get wireless working...they might've found a non-windows driver for broadcom since then, as that's been about 6 months.

Ubuntu Bug day

[maxx_730]

While we're on the subject: today (the 24th) is ubuntu bug day! Join #ubuntu-bugs on freenode and report all your bugs!

Re:Ubuntu Bug day

[Anonymous Coward]

Ubuntu claims that "Each release is supported with free security updates and fixes for at least 18 months", but the Synaptic updater is now telling everyone who has 5.04 is to do a distro-upgrade or else it proposes to install a new kernel of size 21.8k.

Is anyone at Ubuntu actually testing updates with 4.10 or 5.04? Either fix the update system or replace the claim by "Your Ubuntu installation will be supported if you transition from one release to the next."

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=93587

ZDNET is a bit confused

[kernelpanicked]

Not that I would ever allow ZDNet to choose my OS for me but I think they may be a bit confused. The first three distros were basically tossed aside because of "lacks Exchange support", however, the final page has this to say.

"All five distributions come with a good -- and very similar -- selection of core applications, including OpenOffice for office productivity, Gaim for instant messaging and Evolution for email, contact management and calendar functionality."

Re:ZDNET is a bit confused

[shibashaba]

What they meant was that they didn't contain the software to connect to an exchange server and use all the scheduling and other features. Though if you are planning on using a large number of linux desktops, Communigate would probably be a better email server. I haven't used it, but it's supposed to support all the features of exchange and evolution natively, I wonder though if it can import data from an exchange server.

Re:ZDNET is a bit confused

[ciroknight]

Your quote proves they aren't confused, but that you are the one confused.

"lacks Exchange support" does not equate to "lacks Exchange-like business utility support". Exchange is a well established office management software (and mail utility) with a built in client/server protocol that allows multiple users of Exchange to collaborate and share information.

Whereas GNOME's Evolution is simply an email client, contact manager, calendaring software. This means it doesn't communicate with Exchange (data server Exchange, not client Exchange). Now, whether or not this should be considered a flaw, this is something it cannot do, and thus, is a drawback of the product as seen by ZDNet. I believe Novel actually has a piece of software they purchased a while back that allows Evolution to communicate with Exchange, but even so, it's probably years behind Exchange itself, which may be another drawback of having it.

To be honest, I don't believe there is an opensource drop in replacement for Exchange yet. Again, I'm not sure that this is a bad thing and that people simply need to kick the habit (I don't believe the integration does anything for my productivity, as I've learned through my palm pilot over the years), but this is assuredly something the Open Source world lacks.

Re:ZDNET is a bit confused

[cloudmaster]

Evolution has a connector that one can use to connect to an Exchange server and do the important Exchange stuff. All distros don't come with that particular package for a variety of reasons (licensing probably being the bog one). So, having Evolution doesn't equal having Exchange connectivity, but ti's a step in the right direction.

Evolution and Connector are open source, drop-in subsitutes, though they don't do quite everything. They also require some particular settings on the Exchange server, so it's not something the subversive can do easily without also being mail admin (or friends with the mail admin). I can't use Evolution at work, for example, 'cause the mail guy doesn't care. :)

Great

[thesnarky1]

And studies have found "best distro" studies to be the leading cause of flame wars on slashdot. Let the flames fly!

Business environment

[missing_myself]

In my office I dont care if I run RedHat / SuSE or any crap. All trained admins will be capable to install any and all distros without any problem. What matters in business is that of
1. KDE or GNOME Gui filemanager explanation
2. OpenOffice help
3. Transition to Kmail/Evolution from Outlook
4. automount of discs for the M$ trained users
5. Having xmms/mplayer installed for people to listen to music

No admin does 4, 5 in my view

I think Ubuntu is ok

[saskboy]

Ubuntu 5.10 was the first debian distro I was able to get a GUI working for on my finiky AMD with ATI video card at home. I had to type a special boot parameter in, I think it disabled auto detection and installed with a more plain vanila video driver so it wouldn't hang before the install screens came up as it would do with any [Debian] Linux system I tried installing.

I wouldn't consider it ready to plunk down on a desk at my workplace until I know a lot more about it, but it certainly shows promise. One thing I can't figure out though is why there's no utility available to configure GRUB from within Ubuntu, so that someone who wants to boot to Windows by default can set that from within the Linux OS.

Re:I think Ubuntu is ok

[Fallingcow]

I'm not sure if there's a GUI grub configuration tool or not, but you can install Webmin and edit stuff like that through your web browser.

First, change your root password to something other than the auto-scrambled one that Ubuntu uses by default by typing:

sudo passwd root

It'll ask you for your password (the password for your user, that is), then ask you to type a new root password, then type it again to confirm. This is important because Webmin enables only the root account by default, and if you don't know the password then you can't log in, and it's a pain in the ass to change it after it's already been installed, as webmin keeps its own, separate password file.

Then open up your package manager under "Applications->Add Programs" (I think that's what it's called, doing this from memory). Wait for it to load, then go to "File->Advanced". Do a search for "webmin" and tell it to install the base package and any of the addon modules that you want for it.

Now you can browse to "https://localhost:10000" and log in as root. There's a graphical utility in there to change the Grub configuration file, I think.

Alternatively, you can skip all that crap and just do:

sudo nano -w /boot/grub/grub.lst

It should be well-commented and pretty easy to understand. There will be a line that sets the default OS to boot. Just change that, save it, and you're done.

But yeah, there probably ought to be a GUI editor for it. Come to think of it, you might be able to pick the default OS during the install process; I can't recall for sure.

Re:I think Ubuntu is ok

[pjbgravely]

Install the Webmin tarball instead,
At install you can create a unique user name and password that will still have root power.
Then you can set a unique port for Webmin acsess.
This way any cracker would have to figure out a port, a user-name, and a password.

Re:I think Ubuntu is ok

[Fallingcow]

Then you can set a unique port for Webmin acsess.
This way any cracker would have to figure out a port, a user-name, and a password.

I think that the Ubuntu package defaults to only accepting connections from 127.0.0.1 anyway. But yeah, more security's always better.

Re:I think Ubuntu is ok

[buchanmilne]

I'm not sure if there's a GUI grub configuration tool or not, but you can install Webmin and edit stuff like that through your web browser.

How does this make it easier for the user than on any other distro (almost all ship Webmin, but at least Mandriva and Red Hat have reasonable bootloader configuration tools, SUSE's was too technical for non-experts last time I saw it)?

I mean, the Mandriva review (which is quite pathetic IMHO) could have used webmin (or, the CUPS web interface) to configure printers when they couldn't figure out how to add a network printer (which is actually quite easy IMHO).

Re:I think Ubuntu is ok

[Fallingcow]

Yeah, that's why I said in my post that there *should* be a GUI editor for that. I agree with you. I was just providing a couple of solutions in case anyone was interested.

How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[thegoldenear]

So, for all intents and purposes, does Ubuntu = Debian or Ubuntu == Debian or Ubuntu != Debian?

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[MagicFab]

I'd say Ubuntu ~ Debian :)

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[trayl]

ubuntu == debian++ ?

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[endemoniada]

Ubuntu is based on Debian, yes. It's not Debian (it's Ubuntu) and, at the same time, it IS Debian with changes.

Whether you want to call it Debian With Changes, or Ubuntu, or probably up to you...

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[MighMoS]

If you're flutent in object inheritance, than Ubuntu is a class within Debian. Its basically Debian plus conveniance.

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Ubuntu += Debian

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[vhogemann]

Actually

class Ubuntu extends Debian {

   public Ubuntu() {
      super();
      this.doMagic();
   }
}

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[VGPowerlord]

Seeing this made me wonder how the other classes were defined, I was thinking...

public class Debian extends Linux {

    public Debian() {
        super();
        this.apt();
    }
}

public abstract class Linux implements POSIX, GNU {

    public Linux() {
        //Interesting code here
    }
}

Re:How does Ubuntu =/==/!= Debian?

[poopdeville]

The name Unstable is somewhat misleading, as it works quite well, but it is the development branch, and tends to change daily.

This is what makes it Unstable.

Great First Impression

[Quirk]

Just to see, I installed ubuntu 5.04 (I'm waiting for delivery of 5.10) on a new kit I built. On a Ausus A8V mobo (S939) w/ K8T800 pro VIA chipset and Athlon 3500+ and a cheap Radeon 9250 the install went flawlessly.

The box is earmarked for Scientific Linux (which doesn't seem to get any play time on /.), but, again, ubuntu installed flawlessly and boots much faster than my multimedia/web WinXP intel box, which takes a loooooooong time.

Re:Great First Impression

[dk.r*nger]

[...] Scientific Linux (which doesn't seem to get any play time on /.)

Well, rule number one of PR: Tell us what you do.
I spend more than sixty seconds on the SL.org website and I still don't know what SL will give me over a Debian.
I do, however, know that its appreviation is SL and it is build on Enterprise Linux - which is another distribution I have no knowledge of.

Re:Great First Impression

[Quirk]

You're right, it was negligent of me to state the distro gets no play while neglecting to provide any info. There's a newsforge article that covers the basics in short order.

My post was a spur of the moment, rah, rah, me too, sort of thing, as, coincidently, I just installed ubuntu last night.

cheers

We love Ubuntu

[dskoll]

Here at Roaring Penguin, we've pretty much standardized on Debian for the technical staff and Ubuntu for the non-technical staff. It works very well for us.

We do have one holdout on Slackware, but that's fine with me as long as he administers his own box...

Very low quality review

[Freggy]

I read the review of Mandriva 2006.0, and I have to conclude the review is of a really very low quality. Firstly, they are complaining about the lack of a tool to configure network printers. Was it that difficult to find the add printer item in the Mandriva Control Center, and check the two checkboxes for auto-detection of networked and Windows printers?

They say that partitioning was difficult. Actually, first you have the choice to do everything automatically, choosing "use entire hard disk" or "use free space on Windows partition". Instead, they chose Custom partitioning, where again there is a button "Auto Allocate", which do everythinhg automatically once you resized the windows partitions. Now if they call this difficult, they should not have chosen the customized partitioning scheme in the first place. Actually I have heard of users having a lot more difficulties with the SuSE or Ubuntu partitioners.

They say the Exchange connector for Evolution was not there. Did they actually bothered looking for it during half a minute? Then at least they would have found the package evolution-exchange!

The real weak points of Mandriva 2006.0 are not talked about on the other hand. Not a word about the instabilities caused by the buggy beta X.org 6.9 included, by kat which makes kded eat all CPU time sometimes, and nothing about the old version of OpenOffice.org 1.1.5 which is included, and which is buggy (it crashes on SXI files it has created itself).

Really, nothing to see here, move on people!

Re:Very low quality review

[shibashaba]

I wouldn't call it difficult but I have had issues when using Mandrake to partition drives before. If you play around too much it can get confused and you have to start over. It also sucks if your using more advanced features of the filesystems like logs on separate partitions, I don't know if other distros handle that. I really don't know why they couldn't find the option for the printer though, I think it's even checked by default and it's worked pretty well for me in the past.

Mandrakes documentation is horrible though, most free distros do a lot better. I've used it for years at home but I wouldn't even think of trying to recommend it to a business.

Re:Very low quality review

[RobertLTux]

the big thing about Mandriva is 1 A do the club signup or B have fun with the bugs 2 monitor the Cooker list the X.org thing is an upstream bug kat is not house trained yet and all this was covered on the Cooker list (oh btw Silver member using same account name and the google mail servers)

Re:Very low quality review

[calculi]

I kind of agree with the article. I recently installed Mandriva and found the partition tool a little hard to understand. I'm not an advanced user but I've installed a few distros before, and since I just install it on a second hard drive I figured it would be a no-brainer. Everything worked out OK in the end, but for a while I was worried I'd screwed up my Windows drive. Ubuntu just seemed much easier by comparison.

Re:Very low quality review

[timbo234]

Yeah I've had that same problem with the Mandriva Printer config dialog - if it doesn't detect your printer on the network there appears to be no way to add it. All you have to do is go Options->Expert Mode and you'll see all the options for adding the network printer details. Now that may not be obvious to the typical user but the typical user is going to at least mouse through all the menu options before doing something as drastic as reinstalling the entire system! Sounds like Zdnet got a Windows-trained if-it-don't-work-then-just-reinstall-the-whole-lot monkey to do this review.

If they weren't able to make the slightest effort looking around the system then I would take their declaration that Ubuntu is best with a few grains of salt.

Re:Very low quality review

[buchanmilne]

and nothing about the old version of OpenOffice.org 1.1.5 which is included

1.1.5 is/was current stbale. And of course, 2.0 (well, last milestone, which was all that was available at the time) is also included (but not installed by default):

$ urpmq --sources openoffice.org-go-ooo
/mnt/cdrom/media/contrib/openoffice.org-go-ooo-2.0 -0.m129.3mdk.i586.rpm

and which is buggy (it crashes on SXI files it has created itself).

Upstream bug, occurs with OO.o packages of 1.1.5 too apparently. Apparently, creating a new presentation first, *then* opening the saved file, works.

"only one crash"...

[Yath]

It's funny how different perspectives can make communication difficult. For example, take this casual comment from the article:

During the whole exercise, we only experienced one system crash...

To a Linux user, the idea of "only one crash" is bemusing. A modern Linux system, going down so easily? That's very serious. Surely the author isn't familiar with the territory.

Later, it becomes clearer, when the Mandriva review states:

...an accidental combination of keystrokes -- experimenting around Ctrl-Alt-E to try and get a euro symbol -- crashed the system and dumped us at a $-prompt command line, with no obvious route back to our unsaved work.

Obviously, this is not what a Linux user would call a "system crash". I suppose it's just as well that Windows users would be asked to review Linux distros for the desktop, though. A Linux user might regard this as a minor problem, forgetting that to most people, this is indeed a show-stopper.

Re:"only one crash"...

[Spy der Mann]

A Linux user might regard this as a minor problem, forgetting that to most people, this is indeed a show-stopper.

You're absolutely right. This is the problem with the Linux developers, they got so accustomed to it that they forget about their first problems and how they solved them. It's like learning a language and forgetting about your native language.

We'd need an army of Windows Joe users trying to test Linux and reporting all the things they don't feel comfortable with. And we need to keep them fresh so they don't "lose their linux virginity", so to speak.

About those commandline shortcuts, I'd say that these should be disabled by default.

Re:"only one crash"...

[51mon]

> About those commandline shortcuts, I'd say that these should be disabled by default.

Please no - they are there for a reason.

They are on obscure key combinations for a reason.

The distros should document how to use the "compose" key to create other common European characters, and make sure "compose" is mapped to a key "out of the box". Heck composing foreign character is much easier under X than it ever was under MS Windows, I don't understand why Microsoft didn't just copy it, since I doubt anyone would seriously have objected.

Sure "ctrl-alt" + "random keys" might cause the odd funny thing to happen, but it does that in Windows as well. My current Linux desktop just disabled these shortcuts at the GDM login screen, and as a system admin you're completely stuck if you can't get underneath the GUI and the GUI fouls up. I mean if we wanted an OS that was toast as soon as the GUI messes up we'd run MS Windows.

Re:"only one crash"...

[rmstar]

The distros should document...

Good idea. However, I don't think that just because some documentation says whatever it says, people will not stumble over such things and will not blame the system instead of themselves. And to be honest, just explaining a feature in a chapter burried amid a 100 more chapters isn't really a solution.

That said, whenever I have to use a windows machine I feel lost and helpless and keep tripping over stuff just the same as these folks.

Re:"only one crash"...

[strider44]

I agree that it's a great feature, but they should have a message on the command line saying "Use this key combination to get back to the GUI: " for the inexperienced who accidentely stumbled across the key combinations.

Re:"only one crash"...

[killjoe]

It's a double edges sword really. On the one hand if you ignore them the windows users will howl and cry like a baby. On the other hand if you try to replicate their windows experience they will howl and cry because you are not innovating and instead duping windows. What's more they will also berate you daily for not exactly duplicating every little nitpick too.

I don't think it's possible to please them really.

Re:"only one crash"...

[nutshell42]

...an accidental combination of keystrokes -- experimenting around Ctrl-Alt-E to try and get a euro symbol -- crashed the system and dumped us at a $-prompt command line, with no obvious route back to our unsaved work.

Obviously, this is not what a Linux user would call a "system crash". I suppose it's just as well that Windows users would be asked to review Linux distros for the desktop, though. A Linux user might regard this as a minor problem, forgetting that to most people, this is indeed a show-stopper.

A Linux user might regard this as Windows user stupidity.

I bet you 10 OpenSuSE licenses that (based on the impression I got from the rest of the article) they pressed Ctrl-Alt-E got some unexpected letter and then pressed Backspace to remove it but forgot to let go of Ctrl-Alt. OMG!!! L1nuX c2ash0RZ!!!1oneoneone =P

Re:"only one crash"...

[danielk1982]

To a Linux user, the idea of "only one crash" is bemusing. A modern Linux system, going down so easily?

Am I the only one here that experienced lock-ups with a Linux distros (Ubuntu)? They are sporadic, but they do happen. Occasionally I also have weird Gnome glitches (e.g. a panel crashes). Don't get me wrong, its not often. Maybe 2-3 times this past year.

Sometimes at my school the Linux lab (50 computers) has a non-functional terminal (Red Hat Enterprise Desktop) and I see the admin furiously tapping the keyboard.

Re:"only one crash"...

[flosofl]

[...]and then pressed Backspace

Well, if they were runlevel 5 (which is the default for almost all distros these days), it would just respawn GDM/KDM/XDM - not drop them to a command line.

Re:"only one crash"...

[jschrod]

No, that would have respawned X.

More probably, they pressed Ctrl-Alt-3 or Ctrl-Alt-4 (3 and 4 are above the E key) and switched to that virtual console.

Re:"only one crash"...

[imroy]

Pressing Ctl-Alt-E doesn't do anything here. But it's the Ctrl-Alt-Fn combo that switches virtual terminals, not the number keys. Weird. I imagine the sight of a text-mode login screen would indeed startle a Windows user. And anyone not familar with Linux's multiple virtual terminals would not be able to find their way back to X and their work.

Re:"only one crash"...

[jschrod]

But it's the Ctrl-Alt-Fn combo that switches virtual terminals, not the number keys.

You're right, my error. Next time, I'm careful to post at 2:46 am. :-)

Re:"only one crash"...

[Tough Love]

the Mandriva review states: ...an accidental combination of keystrokes -- experimenting around Ctrl-Alt-E to try and get a euro symbol -- crashed the system and dumped us at a $-prompt command line, with no obvious route back to our unsaved work.

Obviously, this is not what a Linux user would call a "system crash". I suppose it's just as well that Windows users would be asked to review Linux distros for the desktop, though. A Linux user might regard this as a minor problem, forgetting that to most people, this is indeed a show-stopper.

Ahem. The reviewer hit a ctrl-alt-FNxx combination while trying random key combinations and got a text console, just as designed. Highly unfair and plain wrong to call that a system crash, all the more so to attribute it to Mandriva.

Yeh, and?

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

And studies have found "best distro" studies to be the leading cause of flame wars on slashdot. Let the flames fly!

That and version numbering schemes...

agreed!

[penguin-collective]

That agrees with my experience: for general purpose desktop use, I find Ubuntu and SuSE to be the best distros. Both of them are easier to install and set up than either Windows or Macintosh. And both of them work great out of the box on a wide range of hardware.

Citrix

[Rinnt]

A long time fan of Mandriva I decided to give the latest Ubuntu a try. I soon found out there is a problem with the 9.0 Citrix Linux client. True, you may be able to use an RDP connection to the server, but shadowing doesn't always work in this mode. I really should have given it more effort, but instead I moved on to try Mandriva 2006. The same thing existed there! In Mandriva I was eventually able to get it to work by installing the latest openmotif and using the 7.0 Citrix client. I'm sure the same solution probably works in Ubuntu...

Sure, Citrix may hardly be a requirment in most businesses. However, for those of us that do use it we're usually pretty dependent on it. Although this was a pretty serious problem I had with Ubuntu, it's still a great distro IMHO.

Re:Citrix

[ragoutoutou76]

I use Ubuntu 5.10 with ica client 9... works smoothly.

Re:Citrix

[CowboyBob500]

installing the latest openmotif

I didn't think there was such a beast. Motif went out with the Ark. That there says everything about the quality of Citrix software. Some flavour of VMWare is surely a better option?

Bob

Re:Citrix

[Rinnt]

I use Ubuntu 5.10 with ica client 9... works smoothly.

Good to hear not everyone has this problem! But if you'd like more info on the error, you can Google for "./wfcmgr: error while loading shared libraries" or click here. That's just one of the errors. I was actually able to get Citrix Client 9 up and running on Mandriva (and I'm assuming this would be the same on Ubuntu) after I upgraded OpenMotif. The Manager started, I configured a connection, and even put in my credentials to log in. However, the connection repeatedly hung and crashed. Using Client v7.0 cleared the problem though...

Re:Citrix

[Rinnt]

That there says everything about the quality of Citrix software. Some flavour of VMWare is surely a better option?

Wow, tell me about it... Although, I do have to admit that the 9.0 client download does say "x86 client - requires OpenMotif 2.2.x". So technically you don't really need the latest ...if that even matters. Here's the link to get OpenMotif.

PC-BSD

[Anonymous Coward]

They should have also tested PC-BSD.

Linux isn't the only open souce desktop option, and I've been more impressed with PC-BSD than any Linux distro for desktop use.

It's almost at a 1.0 version, is already extremely stable. You can install packages by downloading them and double-clicking, or you can use the FreeBSD ports system. It also has an extremely simple graphical installer.

I suppose the only disadvantage of going with a BSD desktop rather than Linux would be that Linux has more drivers... but all of my hardware works so far.

Re:PC-BSD

[Col. 2.7.0-default]

Ahem.

I use PC-BSD, and not only am I not a virgin, BUT...

• I've been married twice. (Yes, both marriages were consummated.)
• I've fathered a child (she's nearly 3 now and she's awesome).
• I am currently bonking the wife of the bloke who sold me my newest computer.
• I hooked up with her the day after I installed the PC-BSD 1.0 RC release on said computer.

So, based on my personal experience, it seems only logical to conclude that using PC-BSD gets me laid!

Feel free to kiss my arse for luck, matey. :)

Re:PC-BSD

[Hast]

I am currently bonking the wife of the bloke who sold me my newest computer.

Considering you are also currently posting on Slashdot using HTML lists no less, I don't think you're doing a very good job at pleasing her.

Unless she is very nerdy I doubt she'll consider this neither foreplay nor pillow talk.

Re:PC-BSD

[Col. 2.7.0-default]

Unless she is very nerdy I doubt she'll consider this neither foreplay nor pillow talk.

That sentence doesn't parse the way you think it does. I believe you intended to say either I think she'll consider this neither foreplay nor pillow talk or I doubt she'll consider this either foreplay or pillow talk. ;P

In any case, I was using the present progessive in its imperfect sense, e.g. Bill is currently attending classes at Monash University may be a valid statement implying that he's enrolled in classes there even though he's actually nowhere near the campus at this precise instant.

Re:PC-BSD

[Hast]

What can I say, I'm practicing my double talk.

They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

They didn't take into account having to administer a couple hundred or thousand of those desktops, which is a whole different ball game. Ubuntu is great for one personal desktop, but from a corporate point of view its not on par with Red Hat or Novell.
Regards,
Steve

Re:They didn't account for administration

[bogolisk]

Why don't you read the article?

...the very corporate Red Hat Desktop 4, could prove a sensible option for companies with large numbers of desktops.
...Our Editor's Choice for the small business, however, is the solid, well integrated and free Ubuntu Linux 5.1.

Re:They didn't account for administration

[Fallingcow]

They didn't take into account having to administer a couple hundred or thousand of those desktops, which is a whole different ball game. Ubuntu is great for one personal desktop, but from a corporate point of view its not on par with Red Hat or Novell.

Please explain. I've not used Novell, but I'm currently an Ubuntu user and I've worked with Red Hat quite a bit, and I don't see how Ubuntu would present any challenges that Red Hat wouldn't.

Re:They didn't account for administration

[Metzli]

How would the admin be worse? If one setup unattended or semi-unattended installs, in a similar manner to Kickstart, and allowed key-based SSH from a specific group of management servers, it seems like it'd be relatively easy. Setup your own apt repository, much like setting up a Red Hat Satellite Server, have the desktops use it for updates, and use scripts to spray out updates as needed. Make sure the user's data is stored on network mounts, use LDAP and/or NIS/Kerberos for authentication and management, and enjoy.

*sigh* Now, if only I didn't work in a horribly Windows-centric shop....

Re:They didn't account for administration

[talksinmaths]

If one setup unattended or semi-unattended installs...Setup your own apt repository...use scripts to spray out updates as needed...Make sure the user's data is stored on network mounts, use LDAP...Kerberos for authentication and management, and enjoy.

Yeah, that does sound pretty easy. I'm sure anyone could do it. :)

Seriously though I do understand your point, and I know that competent sysadmins can implement such solutions effectively. However just because an administrator can do so doesn't mean that it wouldn't be more efficient to use RHN to accomplish the same purpose. Also, it's not a given that every entity that wants to implement Linux has such a competent admin.

Re:They didn't account for administration

[mrroach]

You left out the second paragraph explaining your assertion. I'll start it for you.

It is not on par because [insert insightful reason here].

Re:They didn't account for administration

[buchanmilne]

Except that Ubuntu's Kickstart emulation is a bit lacking (AFAIK no LDAP support).

However, Mandriva has all of these features and more out-the-box (auto installation, easy addition of custom repos to all machines - via urpmi-ldap - ldap authentcation setup available in auto install, GUI tool for admin'ing automatic installation).

But yes, I agree, a "small business" of 50 users could definitely do with automated installations, I think this should have been covered better.

Re:They didn't account for administration

[jamstar7]

How so?

Set up an apt repository on your in-house server for updates to the work stations, tweak the packages needed to run an automatic update at, say 0400, for the workstation, reburn the install CD, done. Just put the updates into the proper directory, run the repository update script, and it Just Works.

Re:They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

Red Hat is designed with this kind of stuff in mind. In addition to just being dead simple with setting up a directory server and other typcal business oriented services, you have a great utility called Red Hat Network. If you need to install a fresh OS on 10,000 machines, no problem just attach them to the network, PXE boot and kickstart takes care of everything else (no more interaction is needed from you). If you need specific installation requirements for various sectors in your network, not a problem either. Are you curious to see how your systems are performing? Want to see everyone's runtime? Bandwidth uages? Applications? Uptime? Just about anything? It is a click away from seeing this information for all systems, or do it for an individual system, and it is all displayed in a nice graphical way. Do you need to install a certain kind of updates on the HR department but only for management? One click and you're done. Did you realize that over the past week you've been installing things on the accounting department's computers that you didn't need to? No problem, just roll back with a few clicks of the mouse. How about when you need to change a configuration file on the 10,000 machines, but you need specific changes for each department. Not a problem at all with Red Hat Network. Do you want to delegate administrating abilities to a few other guys, but want to limit what updates or the type they can install, no problem. Want to be notified if someone's bandwidth usage gets too high? Easy as pie, and you can set it up to alarm you about many different possible probes. You move a computer out of the accounting department and give it to a secretary, you want this system to be exactly like the other secretaries' systems (which is different from accounting's setup), this isn't a problem, Red Hat Network has exisiting state provisioning, you tell it you want it exactly like some box and it does it all for you.

I'm really only beginning to touch the surface with this stuff, even their site is modest, but when you get the software in your hands and start using it you realize how powerful it is and how much time and pain it saves you. Even crazier is that it can all be done through a really well designed web interface, administering computers has honestly never been easier. Some tasks it might only speed up by a minute or two, others by days. All of the things I mentioned above are done from one machine, your machine, on the network or actually if your using satellite RHN, you can administer your corporate network from anywhere in the world just the same. It saves you time by making you not have to write a bunch of custom scripts and hack together solutions, it gives you capabilities that you just won't be able to script up yourself, its flexible and easy as hell to use. One administrator can seriously administer 10,000 machines just as easily as 10. There is a reason that people pay for Red Hat, in addition to support, its easy to use, works on the largest array of hardware, has a great track record for security, but also is great for any kind of corporate environment.
Regards,
Steve

Re:They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

Here is my insight.
Regards,
Steve

Re:They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

You might want to read my response here.
Regards,
Steve

Re:They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

There is more to it than that though. Read this for some more uses of RHN.
Regards,
Steve

Re:They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

RHN takes it a bit further. Read this. for some ideas.
Regards,
Steve

Re:They didn't account for administration

[LnxAddct]

Heh, here is my insightful reason :-)
Regards,
Steve

Installation time

[vear]

As far as I know, installation time is also important when choosing the best software, so why Gentoo isn't first?

We do too

[landonf]

Here at Three Rings, we're migrating all developer desktops to Ubuntu. It works, it's free, and users can maintain it themselves.

Ubuntu has mixed Debian's solid packaging tools with a healthy dose of pragmatism and arrived at a distribution that Just Works. As a desktop operating system, I couldn't be happier with how Ubuntu is working out.

SuSE Professional wins. Here's why:

[Qbertino]

SuSE Professional comes with the best dead tree documentation available for a distro and has payed support. For any real business enviroment that is the selling point.

Re:SuSE Professional wins. Here's why:

[digidave]

Canonical provides paid support for Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/supportoptions /paidsupport/)

Re:SuSE Professional wins. Here's why:

[Zontar The Mindless]

SuSE 10.0 was the -only- one of 8 distros/versions I tried that would install on my Acer 2318 laptop. (I misread the HCL prior to making my purchase. Much hilarity ensued.)

(SuSE 9.2, SuSE 9.3, SuSE 10.0, CentOS 4.1, Mandrake 10.0, Ubuntu 5.04, FC 3, FC 4.)

I've been addicted to SuSE since 9.2. It "just works" and I like the layout.

Ubuntu is okay, but Nautilus just seriously annoys the crap out of me.

(I actually use WindowMaker for my desktop, Konqueror for my filemanager, and mostly KDE apps.)

"relatively expensive licensing structure.."

[slashmojo]

relatively expensive licensing structure for small installations

Or they could just have used a completely free version of redhat enterprise by Centos and several others..

Works nicely on my desktop.

Ah, but there is!!! (was: Re:I think Ubuntu is ok)

[xsspd2004]

<smart4$$>
Hit Alt+F2
then type

"gksudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst"

type in your sudoer password and configure away!
</smart4$$>

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Lord I apologize for telling the CLI impaired person to type something in a faux command line, and be with the starving Pygmies down in New Guinea.

That's ridiculous.

[Max Threshold]

I'm a database developer. I use Ubuntu 5.10 exclusively both at work and at home. Due to horrendous bugs, Ubuntu does not integrate easily (or at all, in some cases) with a Windows environment.

Evolution in 5.04 could connect to our Exchange server, though it was quite flaky. Evolution in 5.10 does not work at all.

Samba printing is totally jacked because the GUI config tool puts the fields in the wrong order in the config file. I got that working by editing the config file manually after two hours of pulling my hair out.

Samba in 5.10 also insists on using the MSHOME domain, repeatedly forgetting my user name and password, and not working even when I type them in. Probably not putting the values in the config file right again, but I haven't had time to look yet. This has disrupted our communications because I cannot see, much less read and write the shares on the network. At least 5.04 let me see them, though we never did figure out how to get it to recognize my write permissions.

I could go on, but I need to go eat more turkey.

Re:That's ridiculous.

[digidave]

I think they meant that it's integrated with itself, meaning the apps work together seamlessly to present the user with a nice desktop work environment.

I also haven't experienced your problems with network printers or Samba, but I use Kubuntu so maybe that makes a difference.

Re:That's ridiculous.

[rbrugman]

I disagree. I think Ubuntu 5.10 works very well with windows. I use it on two of my desktops, one laptop and my server. CUPS works great (although I set it up by hand because the server doesn't have a monitor) and runs my inkjet and laser printers. SAMBA is also flawless. It's even enough to handle my bi-weekly desktop backups which are about 100GB each. I had a little trouble getting LVM to work to combine my drives into one logical one, but that ALSO works flawlessly. Maybe the GUI's are messed up, but the system is great!

Re:That's ridiculous.

[fimbulvetr]

although I set it up by hand because the server doesn't have a monitor

ssh -Y

you@$

I realize you weren't asking for advice, but this works pretty well.

Re:That's ridiculous.

[fimbulvetr]

Crap. Stupid tags:)

ssh -Y (server without a monitor)

you@(server without a monitor)$

I realize you weren't asking for advice, but this works pretty well.

Would've like to see Mepis too...

[darnok]

Ubuntu is very nice - no doubt about it. I've got it on my main desktop at home, and have been very happy with it since the first release.

I've also had a lot of joy with Mepis; a particularly nice feature is that you can boot off the CD, then install off the same CD. Ubuntu has separate discs for "live CD" and "install". I know it's a minor point to experienced Linux people, but having a single CD to boot and/or install from is pretty mindblowing for someone who's had to install Windows...

That said, being able to install a complete desktop with a full set of desktop apps from a single CD is pretty wonderful, compared to Windows. I know my parents were pretty impressed with that when I moved them off Windows; from past experience reinstalling Windows, I think they thought it'd take several hours rather than about 30 minutes.

Re:Would've like to see Mepis too...

[buchanmilne]

That said, being able to install a complete desktop with a full set of desktop apps from a single CD ...

they thought it'd take several hours rather than about 30 minutes.

30 minutes for CD? Mandriva will install with both GNOME and KDE in half that time, using 3 CDs. Where's the advantage?

Re:Would've like to see Mepis too...

[metamatic]

The really wonderful thing about MEPIS is that you can use the entire Debian software repository safely, unlike Ubuntu.

Re:Would've like to see Mepis too...

[greg1104]

This is a data capacity issue right now; Ubuntu is bigger than Mepis and can't squeeze everything on a single CD-R. If you download the Ubuntu DVD, it includes an expanded version of the Live CD with more apps, as well as the installer. You need a DVD drive to use it, of course, but as long as you have that hardware and can burn a DVD-R somewhere it works great.

http://us.releases.ubuntu.com/cdimage/dvd/current/ is where the DVD torrent is at.

Oh, Distro, not Desktop...

[dextromulous]

...Was I the only one who read "Best Linux Desktop" and thought that a review of desktop environments (KDE, GNOME, Xfce, etc.) was to follow?

Re:Oh, Distro, not Desktop...

[robfoo]

yes.

...why?

[scott_karana]

Really, who cares which distro is the best out of the box?
I've always felt that one of Linux's strengths the fact that it's super easy to customize and deploy in that very sort of homogenous environment.

Re:...why?

[towsonu2003]

not for a small business (no IT) that needs productivity out of the box, the windows style...

Re:...why?

[Metzli]

Umm, not meaning to start a flame war, but how does Windows have productivity out of the box? If it shipped with Office as part of the install, then I could see it. But, not as it currently is. Windows is only useful for corporate environments after the Office Suite is applied to it.

Re:...why?

[scott_karana]

Windows is actually fairly easy to customize for deployment itself. Microsoft provides some (undocumented?) tools that the sysadmin can use to 'slipstream' installers, registry keys, and support files onto a custom install CD.
In fact, entire communities have sprung up regarding just this: try Unattended XP for a general overview.

Useless

[4D6963]

Ubuntu is a cool distro, as long as you don't try to build/compile something in it, which makes it of hardly any use, at least for me. I like the nude wallpapers concept too, although I don't like the ratio 2 men - 1 woman too much.

Re:Useless

[ciroknight]

sudo apt-get install build-essentials. go eat some turkey and have some fun with the womenly background and in just a few minutes you should have a perfectly viable build system.

SBC Installation

[mailman-zero]

I ran into this same problem with SBC, until I checked the installation instructions for MacOSX. If you look there it tells you all the information you need to do it in Linux.

1. From the Apple menu (in the top-left corner of the screen), select System Preferences.
2. In the System Preferences window, select Network.
3. From the "Location" drop-down menu, select New Location. You will be asked to name your location. You should name it something simple that you will remember, like "SBCYahoo."
4. From the "Show" drop down menu, select Built-in Ethernet.
5. Next, click on the PPPoE tab and fill out the fields.
6. • Check Connect Using PPPoE.
   • Under "Account Name," enter sbcyahooreg@sbcglobal.net.
   • In the "Password" field, enter sbcyahooreg (Please note that passwords are case sensitive. If you enter an incorrect password, OS X does not generate an error message.)
7. Click PPPoE Options.
8. • Under "Session Options," make sure Connect automatically when starting TCP/IP applications is checked. The other Session Options choices are optional.
   • Under "Advanced Options," Send PPP echo packets should be checked.
9. Click OK.
10. Click Apply Now and close the window.
11. Open Internet Explorer (included with OS X) and type the following URL in the Address field: https://sbcreg.sbcglobal.net
12. Follow the directions on screen. When you are finished, write your new account information down and keep it in a safe place.

Once registration is complete, you'll need to enter your new account information in the "Network" settings under "System Preferences."

1. From the Apple menu, select System Preferences > Network.
2. Select the location that you created in Step 3.
3. From the "Show" drop down menu, select Built-in Ethernet.
4. Click on the PPPoE tab.
5. • Make sure Connect using PPPoE is checked.
   • In the "Account Name" field, Delete sbcyahooreg@sbcglobal.net. Enter your SBC Yahoo! Member ID (your entire email address, e.g. YourMemberID@sbcglobal.net)
   • In the "Password" field, replace sbcyahooreg with your own SBC Yahoo! password. OS X saves your password by default. (Please note that passwords are case sensitive.)
6. Click Apply Now.
7. Close the window and open Internet Explorer to access the Internet. If your homepage doesn't automatically default to yahoo.sbc.com,you mayset it to do so at this time.

If you cannot access the Registration Site while following the procedure above, take these additional steps:

1. On your desktop, double-click the Macintosh HD icon.
2. Double-click the Applications folder.
3. Double-click the Internet Connect application.
4. In the "Configuration" drop-down menu, make sure that Built-in Ethernet is selected.
5. • Ensure that sbcyahooreg@sbcglobal.net is displayed under the "Name" field.
   • Re-enter sbcyahooreg in the "Password" field (you must enter the password in lowercase).
   • Click Connect.
6. Once you are connected, open Internet Explorer and go to Step 9 above for registration instructions.

Re:SBC Installation

[niteice]

Those bottom 6 steps should be all you need. SBC's recent modems (since at least June 2004 anyway) do PPPoE internally.

Ubuntu's best "business friendly" feature:

[pschmied]

Ubuntu has started by locking the root account and making proper use of sudo (and it's various graphical equivalents).

This is increadibly handy. Not that you couldn't do this on other distributions, but it's nice to see this feature in Ubuntu by default. I'm partial to OpenSUSE myself, but their (and many others') handling of sudo is misinformed.

-Peter

Re:Ubuntu's best "business friendly" feature:

[buchanmilne]

Mandriva ships sudo built with LDAP support, which is even more useful for a business than just blanket sudo for every user ... and also has things like rurpmi (restricted urpmi) which is perfect for allowing users to install packages (since it prevents some possible exploint mechanisms and makes it relatively safe to let users install packages).

I honestly don't believe Ubuntu's use of blanked sudo rights is a good idea, a more "targeted" configuration would be better.

It would probably be quite trivial to write an enticing script that used sudo to compromise Ubuntu machines ...

With a good IT department..

[nurb432]

What flavor you choose is less important. At this point in time most unix flavor can be made into what your company needs.

If they cant do that, then your IT department has no business making a change yet.

What is in it for me?

[beforewisdom]

I have a copy of knoppix installed to hard drive and configured to my liking.

At this point does ubuntu have anything to offer me worth the trouble of switching distros? Am I better off sticking with what I have and simply apt-get updating?

Is the appeal of ubuntu an easily install with a lot of end user oriented precofigurations ( as opposed to customization crazy geek hobbyist )?

Re:What is in it for me?

[yppiz]

I've only tried the bootable live CDs for Knoppix (4.0.2) and Ubuntu (5.10) and I found them both excellent in ease of configuration, detecting weird devices (a 3Ware controller with 2TB of disk an ATI Radeon graphics card on one machine, a somewhat weird laptop with Atheros wireless and an Intel video driver on another).

The big difference is the amount of stuff Knoppix puts in the menus -- it's overwhelming trying to figure out what app is where. Ubuntu instead has very clean and short menus of the apps you're likely to actually want as a desktop or typical server user.

If you're happy with Knoppix, though, I don't see a reason to switch.

--Pat

Re:What is in it for me?

[beforewisdom]

The big difference is the amount of stuff Knoppix puts in the menus -- it's overwhelming trying to figure out what app is where. Ubuntu instead has very clean and short menus of the apps you're likely to actually want as a desktop or typical server user.

I have noticed over the years that Gnome has shorter menus then the KDE and much more shorter menus then icewm ( what a mess ). I am wondering if your experience is the result of Ubuntu or Gnome? Is Gnome much more polished in Ubuntu then it is in other distros?

Re:What is in it for me?

[yppiz]

Re my comment about long menus in Knoppix vs Ubuntu Live CDs, beforewisdom writes "I have noticed over the years that Gnome has shorter menus then the KDE ... I am wondering if your experience is the result of Ubuntu or Gnome?"

It's possible. I would have seen the default window manager(s) for the Ubuntu and Knoppix bootable discs.

--Pat

Re:Ah, but there is!!! (was: Re:I think Ubuntu is

[Metzli]

Are you wearing a sleeveless flannel shirt and beat-up ball cap? If not, it's not quite authentic.

Re:virtual PC & Ubuntu

[j-cloth]

I have Unbuntu 5.10 running beautifully inside VMware. Maybe you should use a better virtual machine....

Distribution of choice

[DeathElk]

The following quote from a slashdotter (who's name escapes me) kind of brings perspective to the whole battle for superiority amongst distros:

"My distribution of choice is superior in every way to your pathetic distribution of choice. You are the lowest form of loser to think that your worthless distribution could hold a candle to the God-like superiority of my distribution.

"My distribution's superiority is clearly demonstrated by it's magnificent out-of-the box handling of my obscure feature of choice. Your pathetic distribution doesn't even support my obscure feature of choice without a course of action so complex that it's madness to even contemplate it.

"Clearly, my distribution of choice will utterly destroy your distribution of choice. This is so certain it is pointless for you to resist it."

Re:Distribution of choice

[dabigpaybackski]

Thank you for your comments, Mandark.

Re:Distribution of choice

[illcare]

Original comment is here:
http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=137851&cid =11533388

Re:Distribution of choice

[DeathElk]

Ah, yes. Many thanks.

This review is a joke for businesses

[tannhaus]

Let's be honest. They didn't review much. They could have installed these Os's and then read the package list to get this review. If I'm running a business, yes, whether this is a pain in the ass to install is a major concern. However, the quality of the tech support is just as big of a concern.

It seems like they based their support rating somehow on what support was said to be offered. No mention was given on wait times, knowledge of the support staff, dependability, etc. I don't just want to know what is offered and how it installs. I want to know how easy it is to maintain, how well it integrates with my pre-existing network, etc. Think you can do that in a one page review? Obviously not.

Re:Absufuckingly incorrect.

[Mozk]

Version numbers have nothing to do with decimals, which is why there are versions such as 2.10.95. In most cases, 5.1 would refer to the first minor version on 5, and 5.10 would refer to the tenth minor version of 5. It might be easier to call it version 5 revision 10.

Attention: jotaeleemeese is an idiot.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/tutorials/sig_fig/S IG_dig.htm

a. Zeroes placed before other digits are not significant; 0.046 has two significant digits.
b. Zeroes placed between other digits are always significant; 4009 kg has four significant digits.
c. Zeroes placed after other digits but behind a decimal point are significant; 7.90 has three significant digits.
d.Zeroes at the end of a number are significant only if they are behind a decimal point as in (c). Otherwise, it is impossible to tell if they are significant. For example, in the number 8200, it is not clear if the zeroes are significant or not. The number of significant digits in 8200 is at least two, but could be three or four. To avoid uncertainty, use scientific notation to place significant zeroes behind a decimal point...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_digit

...any zeros that follow the last non-zero digit to the right of the decimal point are significant, e.g.: 0.002400 has four significant figures.

Oops, my anal retentiveness is showing.

Re:Absufuckingly incorrect.

[Narcissus]

OK, so again I could be wrong, be there are pages out there that agree with me (including the first link I got when I searched Google for "significant digits": http://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/tutorials/sig_fig/S IG_dig.htm ) and I daresay there would be more people that support my theory of what constitutes a significant digit than yours.

Because the zero is after the decimal point, it is significant as it shows that the 'hundredths' have been measured and it is zero. "5.1" can be representative of anything between "5.05" and "5.14" when looking at two decimal places.

I don't really care, as all I was doing originally was giving the initial poster something to say if his father mentioned the numbering scheme, but if you're going to correct me (with the confidence implied by words broken up by expletives) then at least understand that you're not entirely correct yourself.

knoppix?

[poincare]

Knoppix 4.0 is a fantastic distro for people who don't want to spend time configuring stuff. I'd hand off a knoppix cd or dvd to a non-tech business person over suggesting a regular distribution any day. With a decent sized USB thumbdrive, anybody can be functional in under a minute.

Does it support WPA yet?

[Mr2001]

The last time I installed Ubuntu, it came with no support for WPA encryption, and the guides to set it up didn't work. That's a showstopping flaw for anyone who uses a wireless network, IMO.

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[managedcode]

The problem with any and every Linux flavors is driver support. I don't understand why they are not takign this issue seriously if they want to KILL the evil empire. We need to address this issue now.

Where is Fedora

[camcorder]

They didn't test Fedora and decided best distro for small bussinesses? Are they on crack?

Re:Where is Fedora

[unixfan]

Yeah, that's pretty poor. I understand they did not try KDE either (according to a poster above). I'm not even going to bother reading the review at this point as it's too incomplete and inapplicable to me.
I've been using many diff distro's for my desktop (since -95) and I always come back to Fedora for various reasons.

can any of them completely replace exchange yet?

[strider3700]

It's nice to know which is best for the desktop but I'm not wanting to switch away from XP with outlook and office yet. I'm still at the stage of wanting to switch away from small business server 2000 which we use for SQL server, exchange, domain controller and file serving.

Now I know that all of the features can be replaced for the file serving via samba, and I'm sure that we can set up a domain controller somehow, but will postgres or mysql directly replace sql server and allow my apps to work without changes? That's the easy part in my mind. What replaces exchange in such a way the outlook never notices? I get the feeling I'm locked into this crap for awhile longer yet.

Re:virtual PC & Ubuntu

[daniel23]

May be versions matter here. However, from my personal experience I'd rather agree to this, SuSE always installed and ran fine for me on lots of obscure hardware (think via mini-itx) and vmware up to 9.something.

But I started with vmware 1.0 and the last update I bought was 3.20.

Not quite

[jpardey]

Best. Thing. Ever. Actually, the best thing ever, is, by definition, sliced bread.

(k)Ubuntu, Gentoo, Slack, Puppy....

[UncleRage]

From my personal experience, it doesn't actually matter what distro you choose for a project roll out. What matters is:

1. Application/OS requirements (which might well stop the OS transition).

2. Knowledge of the hardware on the floor.

3. Understanding of the level of end-user experience (and amount of necessary hand holding that will be necessary).

Once those three items are in place, it comes down to the IT cat.

For a mixed floor, Ubuntu works great as it has absolutely beautiful hardware detection. Is that a solid? Not always. But, in my experience, majority rules and Ubuntu continues to prove reliable on varied hardware.

For a cloned floor (and/or older hardware), I really like Gentoo. Basic paired down install w/ my necessary builds on disc. Pull my entire necessary build list from the file server and you can be up and running pretty quickly (well... "quick" is obviously conditional... I mean let's face it, emerging X, KDE and OOo isn't a five minute process -- especially on a roomful of refurb 1GHz PIII Deskpro's). Of course, if it's a true cloned floor and you're starting from scratch, the time can be greatly cut down with a good imaged install.

On a serious budget, Puppy or DamnSmall works great. (Point of fact, I recently set up a local NPO w/ 8 old(er) 733 PIII Netvista's. After demo'ing three distro's they liked the light weight of Puppy. So, Puppy they got -- small, light and speedy).

My point here is that crowning a particular distro "king" of the office heap is sketchy at best. The high point of Linux is (in many cases) also it's low point: a staggering choice of distros. While it may be a hindrance in crowning a "Windows Killer", it's the same flaw that makes it very possible to eliminate Windows -- if you know your client requirements, hardware and end user base... you can pretty much facilitate a solid transition. Nothing's going to make that any easier...

Let's face it; when it comes down to installing and supporting a desktop change, it doesn't matter how nice the Ubuntu install process is for the guys over at ZDNet. It's we that get the desperate IM, call, smoke signal concerning the user's internet being broken, the fact that when they "click the blue thing, it pops an error saying "No" or whatever else the end-user doesn't understand.

All of that being said, Ubuntu is the distro that I include with all the end user systems I sell out of the shop -- new and refurb. Lets face it, most people still want Windows, but I'm finding more and more homes for Linux based PC's w/ my average family customer. And Ubuntu does make a pretty, full featured, one disc distro.

Of course, real geeks roll their own. ;)

Linux vs. OS-X

[jpalit]

Very interesting conversation brewing up at:

http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/forum/showthread.p hp?p=310

Ubuntu is great for businesses

[JPriest]

Ubuntu is great for businesses becasue it has really secure defaults.

$sudo bash
#

see

Re:Ubuntu is great for businesses

[dusterl]

$ sudo bash Password: Tested on Ubuntu 5.10.

Re:virtual PC & Ubuntu

[delire]

I have Unbuntu 5.10 running beautifully inside VMware...

Great slogans are often born of the innocent typo. Sad really, that in years to come, when the proverbial tables have turned, your accidental genius will go completely forgotten:
"Unbuntu Now with Windows Mista 2008".

Ubuntu now a /. category?

[delire]

"Ubuntu: Best Linux Desktop for Business?"

<JEST>Seems Ubuntu is outgrowing even Linux itself!</JEST>

.. I guess we should now expect a logo right alongside those for YRO, Games and Science ...

Re:Confirmation on 'sudo bash'

[JPriest]

Well I have never tried to "sudo bash" in Ununtu, but I have done a "sudo passwd root" which works nearly just as good becasue then you can just su to root with the new password. You may also be able to just type "sudo su", but I have never tried it.

You, sir, are an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

So if someone posts something informative / funny it should be modded troll because of another post that was made?

Mod troll posts as troll, informative posts as informative, funny posts as funny.

Your talents are wasted here. Make haste, I am sure there are M$ shills / GPL violations / some cool porn that needs viewing somewhere that requires your superhero attention! Up up and away!!!

duh

[Frequanaut]

that which allows you to perform your job at the lowest cost.

stupid. for some it's winxp, others macosx, others ubuntu. Me fc 8.

Edit to make this readable

[ZakuSage]

That is one thing that has amazed me about Ubuntu, actually. I have run *MANY* distros over the last 10+ years, and have not run Windows since version 3.1 in 1995. I am used to having to do some work to get my X configuration correct, to get sound working at all, etc. I am now running Ubuntu, and have not had to touch a single configuration file. This is on a laptop, an eMachines M6805. The wide screen display (1280x800) was correctly configured - I had naturally expected it to choose 1024x768 and have to edit the xorg.conf to fix it. Sound works. It detected the wireless and built in ethernet, allowed me to select the wireless and enter my WEP key during installation, even the media keys (volume, mail, etc.) were properly configured.

Later, I had to install Windows XP in order to load maps onto my GPS - since this machine is designed to run Windows, I didn't expect to have any compatibility issues, but *surprise*! The screen resolution was wrong, the wireless card was not detected at all, sound does not work. I don't know if it configured the media keys correctly or not as I have only had to run Windows twice, once to load maps and later to setup my DSL which unfortunately could only be done by running the Windows coaster which SBC sent me.

I assume that all that doesn't work under Windows could be fixed by hunting around for drivers, but the simple fact that no such work was needed under Ubuntu whereas Windows is unable to make use of all of this Windows hardware was quite a surprise.

You needed paragraph tags. Badly. You had some great stuff to say, though.

Re:Absufuckingly incorrect.

[Daengbo]

Although Narcissus and AC have answered you effectively already, I want to explain more directly due to your amazing ignorance on this matter. I haven't taken a math course in 17 years or used significant digits since that time, but I still remember this issue because it's so bleeding important to math.

5.1 has two significant digits. This means that the real value for 5.1 falls at or about 5.05 and below 5.15.

5.10 has three significant digits. This means that the real value for 5.10 falls at or above 5.095 and below 5.105.

That you don't know this shows either you intention to troll or your inability to pay attention in your secondary math courses.

As pointed out, though, this is all pointless because versioning does not follow a decimal system.

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[MobyTurbo]

Been trying to get 3D to work all day on my sons computer. Ubuntu 5.10 fails at it.I had SuSE 9.1 installed on the box and the card (PCI TNT) worked with no problems.

This isn't Ubuntu's fault, nVidia decided to no longer support TNT cards in both its Windows and its Linux closed source drivers. Ubuntu's default install is the latest nvidia binary drivers; I assume the present version of SuSE hasn't gotten the most recent drivers yet. Ubuntu will work fine with a TNT card though if you install nvidia-glx-legacy and linux-restricted-modules-$(uname -r)-nvidia-legacy, then run "sudo nvidia-glx-config enable". I have a TNT2 M64 card and this works for me.

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[JDGBOLT]

Hmm, first post on slashdot, but just thought I should comment on your problems with the nvidia driver.These problems are mostly stemming from the fact that the later nvidia driver packages have cut away support for the TNT card series. I know this because I went through the same thing on this desktop I am currently using, a 333mhz PII system, which I had placed a TNT2 riva into. The solution for it is to install the nvidia 1.7174 drivers, at least, that worked for me. Though I don't use ubuntu on this system, but gentoo, my distro of choice, though I also have ubuntu as second favorite. Hope that helps. JDGBOLT

Re:Absufuckingly incorrect.

[tombeard]

Probably OT but wtf, rock climbing, a pleasure of mine(yea, big blue room and everything) 50# ago, rated roped climbs with intermediate protection at 5.0 to... Was susposed to stop at 5.9 but we kept climbing harder stuff. Couldn't transition to 6.0 because that was used for aided (as opposes to free) climbs. So everyoone just kept going. Last I checked 5.15 was as hard as had been free climbed. Next would be 5.16 of course.

Anyway; I liked Ubuntu, but the latest FreeBSD mounts and reads the NTFS partition. The utility is obvious.

Technical staff behind the times

[xant]

At my place of work I migrated all of our servers to Ubuntu months ago. As of Wednesday they are all running Breezy Badger, the newest. Best decision I ever made. If someone tells you Ubuntu is a "workstation OS", not a "server OS", don't believe it. It has all the chewy server goodness, and it supports all the neat server hardware we had in our fancy rackmounts. And it contains recent software.

Tell your technical staff to get with the times :-)

Hmm...

[ovit]

I recently switched my desktop to Ubuntu... It's nice... But I have to say, as a developer, it was not set up with me in mind... It is a fine Desktop distro, but I had apt-get about a million things before I had a decent dev box...

Re:Mod Parent Insightful!

[mpapet]

I had exactly the same experience with Ubuntu once I got it working. And I never got it working super-well on one desktop. Unlike others I had laptop issues too.

I agree they've added some polish. I really hope can get the changes back into Debian.

news from the field

[erinacht]

I run a business (admittedly I'm a one man band contractor). My server is ubuntu and my laptop is ubuntu. Both very nice and easy and quick to configure, it wasn't completely painless, but neither is a windows server/desktop solution.
I've also just upgraded my in-law's aging P2 300 win98 machine with ubuntu. They're very happy with it. Their needs are limited admittedly - web,mail,digital camera,chess,patience. Ubuntu passes with flying colours. I showed them round gnome in a matter of minutes and they were up to speed in no time. Now they keep saying things like - it's _so_ much faster. it looks _so_ much better. No surprise really since win98 is now 7 years old and ubuntu 5.10 is 1 month old. The point is that they would not have had the same experience had I tried a WinXP upgrade on that old hardware.
For a home desktop, I can recommend Automatix - that installs all that "other" stuff for a desktop system.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=66563

Capabilities:
1) Installs multimedia codecs
2) Installs all Firefox plugins (java, flash, etc) (except Adobe reader and mplayer)
3) Installs RAR, ACE and UNRAR archive support
4) Installs skype
5) Installs Acrobat reader 7 and firefox plugin for the same.
6) Installs Gnomebaker (CD/DVD burning s/w for GNOME)
7) Installs gftp (FTP client for GNOME with ssh capability)
8) Installs DC++ , amule and Limewire (file sharing progs)
9) Installs multimedia editors (Audacity (audio), Kino (video), EasyTag (ID3))
10) Installs DVD (dvdrip) ripper
11) Installs Mplayer and mplayerplug-in version 3.05 for Firefox
12) Installs totem-xine, VLC and Beep Media Player (with docklet)
13) Installs Opera Browser
14) Installs Debian Menu (shows all installed applications) (this kills and restarts your gnome-panel without warning u!)
15) Installs Bittornado and Azureus (Bittorrent clients)
16) Installs Avidemux (Video editing tool)
17) Enables Numlock on (turns numlock on Gnome startup)
18) Installs Programming Tools (Anjuta (C/C++ IDE), Bluefish (HTML editor) and Screem (Web Development Env.))
19) Install GnomePPP (Graphical Dial up connection tool)
20) Installs MS true type fonts
21) Configures ctrl-alt-del to start gnome-system-monitor (aka windows)
22) Installs Streamripper and Streamtuner
23) Installs NON-FREE audio and dvd codecs
24) Installs ndisgtk (WiFi configurator Graphical user interface)
25) Upgrades Open Office to 2.0 (final version), installs openoffice clipart and installs OO2 thumbnailer. (no support for AMD64 and ppc packages)
26) Adds 3 nautilus scripts (open any file with gedit as root; open a nautilus window as root in any folder; open gnome search tool in any folder (Right click in a nautilus window and look under "scripts")
27) Installs SUN'S JAVA JRE and JDK version 1.5
28) Installs wine (u need to run winecfg manually after installation)
29*) Installs firestarter (GNOME firewall frontend) and adds firestarter to GNOME startup
30*) installs gdesklets (GNOME eyecandy) and adds gdesklets to GNOME startup
31*) Gamepads (Makes USB gamepads work)
32*) Turns DMA ON on Intel and AMD machines (needs a restart)
33*) NVIDIA cards (Detects Nvidia cards and installs drivers) (Needs a restart)
34*) Adds midi capability to your Ubuntu box (test by playing a midi file with timidity or pmidi from terminal)

* --> These options require manual intervention and clicking. Please stand by!

PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL (23) IF YOU ARE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. IT IS ILLEGAL TO DO SO.

Debian BABY!

[dindi]

apt-get update whatever ..... all other pkg managers just give me the creeps, especially on a remote server ...

oh it is all GNU too, and yes it counts for me.

many say it is only for techs or geeks or whatever, I think whatever else I tried I just went back to it, I don't want crippled packages and messed up (e.g. RH) kernels (well I compile mine so it does not matter anyway)

now mod me whatever, but for me it is #1 for the last good few years ... and yes before that I used slackware .... ooohh... like in 95'

Re:Absufuckingly incorrect.

[JabberWokky]

There are no significant digits, it's a date. It may be written oddly, but that seems to be popular these days. Same goes for telephone numbers - people like to write them with periods, but that doesn't mean that 800.588.7726 has significant numbers. Nor does the 2005.11.25 sitting up in my clock.

Using dates as a version number is pretty common.

--
Evan

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[poofyhairguy82]

Been trying to get 3D to work all day on my sons computer. Ubuntu 5.10 fails at it. Prior to Ubuntu I had SuSE 9.1 installed on the box and the card (PCI TNT) worked with no problems.

Recently Nvidia cut off all support in their drivers for TNT cards. There is a solution that Ubuntu has that some other distro lack- a legacy driver. Have a nice day.

Installed Ubuntu for the first time

[mikefe]

I'm a long time Debian user and just tried Ubuntu 5.10 a couple days ago and one thing that ticked me about Firefox on Linux was that middle-clicking on a tab would paste instead of close the tab.

Debian, Fedora and anyone else, please do what Ubuntu did to Firefox!

Statement

[Zx-man]

I may be wrong about which Linux distribution is best for business, but I consider distributing Linux the best business ;-)

Ubuntu isn't all good fun

[hug_the_penguin]

I've used ubuntu for a few months and decided it isn't worth the hassle and i'm back to using fedora core. There are a number of issues that it does not address sufficiently. I was recently at a canonical event where they were promoting ubuntu and when asking questions, the speaker was largely unable to provide satisfactory answers, he didn't really know his linux and canonical seriously need to improve some aspects of the desktop. One of the key problems for businesses is that there will undoubtably be custom software they need to install, software unavailable through an apt repository. If you've ever tried compiling software on ubuntu you may well recognise that things begin to break when you start compiling or installing custom deb files. A further problem will manifest when it comes time to apt-get dist-upgrade and a few of those files you've updated could end up rendering your system unusable (hey, it happened to me). Bizarrely enough, these problems tend not to happen with debian, partially perhaps due to the reduced need to install software manually because of the increased amount of software available in repositories. Ubuntu has a long way to go for business, and as of yet i'm unwilling to put it on a server due to issues i've had previously. Perhaps when these issues get ironed out i may consider it, but some of the new features coming should improve usability, key if you're rolling it out across a business network. What is nice is that it retains emphasis on GPLed software, but some of the software in the repos is not GPL, not that most users will be bothered. I don't believe it quite fits the needs of business just yet, but who knows what's to come?

Free != free

[Steeltoe]

A base Ubuntu-install is based entirely on Free Software (http://www.gnu.org./ As with Debian, you can add non-free sources yourself, for gettings codecs for Windows Media Player etc.

Suse has some parts Free and other parts proprietary, so it is not entirely Free Software. But you can download Suse free of charge (a more concise phrase).

I believe this is the main difference. Whenever you see the word "Free" or "free", you should always have the broader definition of Free in mind to see what fits.

Why ?

[GavrocheLeGnou]

I really don't understand why ubuntu is so popular ? What have ubuntu that other distro haven't ? I hope it's not that ugly Brown wallpaper ....

Ooooooh, Rigorous criteria!

[Hosiah]

extensive testing involving Gaim, Evolution, OpenOffice.org

"I'm not really just sitting in a chatroom trolling for pickups, I'm testing distros for a ZDNet article!" You know, I never understood "office work" (oops, I mean """work""") that much. Apparently you need to throw around stacks of quarterly reports, pie charts, Powerpoint-Prestations with stupid animations and teeth-grindingly-irritating-sounds, appointment books, calendars, et cetera ad infinitum, just to keep appearing to look busy. Meanwhile, engineers (the actual productive portion of the workforce) look busy by sitting quietly in their office with the door closed.

But, anyway, if it makes you happy, Ubuntu is your office distro! I've tried Ubuntu, and I think it should certainly keep any office worker satisfied. Engineers still await *their* distro.

Flaws in the Mandriva review

[buchanmilne]

1. The Mandriva installer also failed to advise us as effectively as it should in the matter of security. Where SUSE's YaST2 prompted us to create secure passwords, Mandriva let inadequate passwords stand (dictionary words, all in lower case), without question.

   Select a security level other than "Standard", which is aimed at home users, and a lot of security considerations (besides password strength) will be enforced.

2. As usual, we chose the GNOME interface

   KDE is actually the default desktop, it may be better to review the default desktop on each distro rather than your preferred one.

3. Clicking to Add a printer gave us options to add local printers only. The tool seemed to be unaware of the possibility of a networked printer, or to communicate its abilities in that area.

   When I run MCC->Hardware->Printers without any local printers attached, it prompts me with "Do you want to enable printing on printers on the local network", then gives options for a local CUPS server or an existing CUPS server on the network (choose local), it will install some more packages and then search for network printers. If it doesn't find any printers, use Actions->Add printer, if it still doesn't, enable the expert mode which will let you choose between JetDirect, CUPS, SMB etc etc.

4. We were disappointed with the Evolution client, too. It works well, but in Mandriva is supplied without the Microsoft Exchange connector

   $ urpmq --sources ximian-connector
   /mnt/cdrom/media/main/ximian-connector-2.2.3-2mdk. i586.rpm
   

   Maybe it should be installed by default, but it *is* on the CDs.

So, that deals with all the cons listed in the conclusion.

I would also point out that most real businesses won't be doing manual installations, and with Mandriva (as with SuSE and RedHat), all of this additional configuration can be avoided by doing automated installs. Ubuntu's support for automated installs still lacks (maybe this is why it wasn't mentioned at all)?

Ubuntu and my external NFTS harddrive

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently installed ubuntu on my Zepto 4200, it went swift and after one short hour my ubuntu had been running its auto-udate. It even found my ati 9700 although i had to make an easy download for drivers serving my pro version(?).

First thing that strikes me is the somewhat old-style user interface that the gnome (right, eh?) presents me with, i dont know if its just me, but it seems that everything is prettier and somehow fits more stuff onto my windows desktop? - checked screen res, no probs, though it reminded me of using an older laptop?

Secondly it recognized my nfts external hd just fine, but then i found out i could not write to it. Searching the web only presented me with commercial sollutions, and as i am a poor student i decided to switch back to my win)#%/home mylimitedass-edition that i intended only for the windows games i do not wish do abandon :/

Now givin me a sollution to those problems would convert me! (including a windows-game-emulator, bye bye solitare :D)

Client side

[buchanmilne]

The original poster seems to have been mentioning client-side aspects of samba use, where IMHO GNOME is quite a bit behind. Saying something "works great" when you set it up by hand, in a thread about desktop usability is a bit weird ...

Samba and LVM with GUIs etc etc have worked great in Mandriva since it was Mandrake 8.0 ...

Correction

[Fallingcow]

That should be:

sudo nano -w /boot/grub/menu.lst

Sorry for any confusion.

many people just want Email and browsing

[pensivemusic]

almost any of these Linux flavors
is a good match for their modest
computer work. i think the stability
of the Linux product promotes
a lot more confidence.

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[NullProg]

I assume the present version of SuSE hasn't gotten the most recent drivers yet. Ubuntu will work fine with a TNT card though if you install nvidia-glx-legacy and linux-restricted-modules-$(uname -r)-nvidia-legacy, then run "sudo nvidia-glx-config enable". I have a TNT2 M64 card and this works for me.

Thanks,
That worked. I still had to go in and change X to use nvida vs nv before it worked.

This isn't Ubuntu's fault, nVidia decided to no longer support TNT cards in both its Windows and its Linux closed source drivers.

Not exactly. The Windows nvidia drivers work to spec (Win98/nt/xp etc.). The Linux drivers should work the same (2.4, 2.6 kernal drivers). It works under SuSE it should work under Ubuntu.

I'm not dissing Ubuntu, just getting used to it's method. So far so good. My son and are playing network bzflag, myth2, heroes3 etc.

My only problem now is that Ubuntu is loading all the bluetooth modules on a desktop machine with no bluetooth devices (wastes memory). That should be an easy problem to solve vs 3D :)

Thanks again,
Enjoy.

TrollBots

[Doc Ruby]

Just a note about your sacred NASA suit Griffin: not only is he running NASA's budget into the ground, but he's lying to Congress about how badly he's ruining their budget.

'"The budget associated with the Vision's announcement in 2004 [anticipated] that the shuttle's demands would significantly decrease in 2008 and 2009," said one longtime NASA watcher. "That was a myth."

Griffin acknowledged as much at a Nov. 3 House Science Committee hearing, saying the plan to finish the space station and retire the shuttle in 2010 faces a "$3 billion to $5 billion" funding shortfall.'

That's despite Congress overfunding NASA, against Bush's moronic complaints. Is it a surprise that Griffin is screwing the Shuttle and farming deficits while overseeing a military base on the Moon? As I said, he's a complicit bureaucrat with a Star Wars hidden agenda. And you are a gutless, sleazy TrollBot.

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[MobyTurbo]

then run "sudo nvidia-glx-config enable". I have a TNT2 M64 card and this works for me.

Thanks,
That worked. I still had to go in and change X to use nvida vs nv before it worked.

Maybe you had changed it manually beforehand so nvidia-glx-config wouldn't touch it, much like dpkg-reconfigure on all Debian systems will ignore hand-modified files on the theory that if you made personal changes you don't want a configurator writing over them.

Not exactly. The Windows nvidia drivers work to spec (Win98/nt/xp etc.). The Linux drivers should work the same (2.4, 2.6 kernal drivers). It works under SuSE it should work under Ubuntu.

I'd only heard of the Windows driver problem. The Linux driver program I can confirm, on multiple distributions nvidia hardware accelerated drivers newer than 7174 don't work, and nvidia themselves, buried in their help forum, recommend that you run that if you have a TNT card because they've dropped support for older cards in the current version.

Re:Ubuntu fails at NVidia 3D

[NullProg]

Maybe you had changed it manually beforehand so nvidia-glx-config wouldn't touch it, much like dpkg-reconfigure on all Debian systems will ignore hand-modified files on the theory that if you made personal changes you don't want a configurator writing over them.
Your right. I followed the nvida instructions in the Ubuntu forums. The problem was I didn't see that the update was only for newer nVidia cards, not the legacy ones. So obviously I compounded the problem by installing the legacy driver without un-installing the newer ones.

Part of the problem is that I'm not that familiar with apt-get yet. I've been using Linux now since '95 and I've never used an apt-get based system :)

Enjoy.