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Canada's CD Tax Out of Hand?
CRIA Watcher writes "The Canadian Copyright Board has just announced that it is bringing back the tax on blank CDs, called the private copying levy, in 2007. Michael Geist demonstrates how the tax has created a huge distortion in the retail price of blank media on his blog with as much as 70 percent of the purchase price now heading directly to the music industry."
Sales of blank CDs in Detroit area soar! Details at eleven!
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
This is a load of crap, I'm sick and tired of paying a fortune for blank CDR's while the Canadian Recording industry is out to call everyone a criminal and lobbying to cripple our rights by introducing ludicris laws to ruin what us Canadians take for granted. Either fuckoff trying to take our rights away, or do away with this stupid tax!
Hello Canadian, Please click on this link to buy cheap CD's from the US. This is perfectly legal, and a great way to save money.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
...their Olympic gold medals for recording media!
Sig? - yeah, whatever.
Even if I set aside the flawed logic, why does the music biz get it all? What about other businesses that are hurt by "copying". Surely some of this money should go to software companies, as well as private media/content producers that distribute their work via CDs.
Taxes cause market distortion and deadweight loss.
Video at 11.
70 percent of the purchase price now heading directly to the music industry
:D Kiddin' of course, but still, it's hard to keep from [uneasy] smiling.
LOL, that sounds peculiar indeed, Canada's music industry now gets rich from blank media instead of music content
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
That is until their computer industry reveals reports that American blank CDs are not as safe as Canadian ones.
Since this tax goes to the recording industry to apparently make up for "lost sales due to copyright infringement"....where can independant Canadian artists who are not affiliated with the labels sign up to receive their cut of this tax? I mean...people use these blank CDs for things other than the music of the labels...
And if this tax applies to ALL CDRs, rather than just the music CDRs that nobody buys in America...how does a Canadian citizen dispute the tax on something they've never used (assuming of course they don't burn music to CDs?
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
...buy cheap CD's from the US. This is perfectly legal, and a great way to save money.
Yes, but as an 'importer' I'm liable for the levy on imported CDs. Excuse me for a second, the doorbell's ringing...
I'd like to know where this guy does his shopping. Around christmas time you were able to buy spindles of 200 CDs for like 25 bucks CDN at many major retailers. That's 12.5 cents a disk before tax. I don't remember getting CDs that cheap *before* the levy.
I have seen no noticeable impact of any levy whatsoever. Blank CDs are still dirt cheap.
Besides, with car audio and portable players all moving toward using memory-based media nowadays anyway, and DVDs offering vastly more storeage for the same price, CDs are rapidly going the way of the dodo bird.
Maybe the Canadians can get their pharmacies to fill prescriptions for US customers and accept payment in blank CDs!
Sigh. I have never illegally downloaded music. 9 out of 10 CD-Rs I use are for data backup, and occasionally I do make a fair-use copy of a CD I bought.
It has been said a thousand times that the revenue losses for piracy are basically made up. Pulled out of thin air. I know, because I was a teenager once. I went to college and lived among other students. The basic fact is that people buy the things that are important to them, and anyone who "pirated" music or games valued their collections so little that a failed hard drive or lost disc simply meant nothing. A shrug of the shoulders, and they move on. The perception of value is what drives the free market, right?
The only successful competition for Free is Better Than Free. Apple seems to have learned this. Red Hat is still in business. Somehow, GNOME and Firefox have found corporate backing. Or, am I dreaming all of this?
Its easy. Just do what we Americans do for prescription drugs. We buy them from Canada because they are about 1/2 the price.
Why can't Canadians buy their CDs from places that have lower taxes?
I drive to a neighboring county to buy cigarettes because they have cheaper taxes. I buy things online to escape state sales tax. I buy my prescription drugs from Canada.
Many retailers advertise and/or strategically place their storefronts right across borders for this reason.
He ya go:
The Private Copying Levy Distortion
The Copyright Board of Canada last week released its proposed tariff for 2007 for the private copying levy. The numbers remain unchanged: 21 cents per CD-R. As prices have dropped, however, the levy now frequently comprises a significant percentage of the retail price. Consider the purchase of 100 blank Maxell CDs. Future Shop retails the 100 CDs for $69.99. The breakdown of this sale is $48.99 for the CDs and $21.00 for the levy (even worse is a current Future Shop deal of 200 blank CD-Rs from HP, which retails for $59.99. The levy alone on this sale is $42.00 (200 CDs x 21 cents/CD) which leaves the consumers paying $17.99 for the CDs and $42.00 for the levy).
This results in a huge distortion in retail pricing when compared to the U.S. market which does not have a levy system. For example, the same Maxell CDs retail for US$34.99 at CompUSA. When you add in the exchange differential, the Canadian cost is just over $40.00. Obviously the price is slightly lower in the US even without the levy (35 cents per CD vs. 40 cents per CD). With the levy, the price increases by another 50 percent.
Given how little Canadians get for their money (the private copying right doesn't cover copying CDs to Apple iPods) is it any wonder that countries such as Australia are considering allowing for such private copying without a levy scheme? The solution in Canada is obvious: either ensure that the levy covers the full panoply of private copying as is the case in France or drop the levy altogether and institute a fair use user right.
...resell them as 'almost new'
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
We go to Canada for the cheap drugs, they come here for the cheap CDs. Sounds fair to me.
As for the CD tax -- it stinks. I use a dozen or so CDs (and DVDs) for project backups, photos, home movies, and so on. I no longer use a tape-based VCR; It's much nicer to burn timeshifted TV shows to DVD/CD with DivX compression. Why should I have to pay a levy on that?!
A pack of rolling papers costs as much as a pack of cigarettes. This type of taxation has been around forever.
When it's reinstated and they're making millions upon millions of dollars per year on a product that isn't even theirs, they'll still insist that the recording industry is dying and it's all because of you downloading/burning scum! "Never mind the fact that we're making a profit on that too".
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
I do not use CDs as anything other than a distribution medium for buying music at this stage. I listen to most music on my MP3 player or occasionally a computer. This seems to be what most people do.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Yes, but as an 'importer' I'm liable for the levy on imported CDs. Excuse me for a second, the doorbell's ringing...
:(
LOL. I am sure there is something for importer fee's...though how is the gov't supposed to know that the UPS package you are getting is CDs and not say a CD case holder?
I was, however, mainly making a joke referring to all the spam mail we get about Canadian drug companies..I guess it was not written well enough
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
don't start charging tax on blank DVD's. A few years ago I would of ( and was ) more incensed with the CD tax, since I primarily used them for data backup. These days, with the price of DVD burners and media being so cheap I have bought exactly one 50 pack of CD's in the last six months.
My greatest worry is if they somehow manage to bring back the horrid mp3 player tax. That tax was the worst one. They were going to run into mp3 players with more tax in the price then the mp3 player was worth as the storage media incrased in sized, but the tax was not scaled to the price drop of the storage media.
be stupid not to copy as much as I can get my paws on, eh?
I got mad enough before to start dreaming up "piracy booths", where you could burn cds from a "collection" - for free, of course, with your own hands. My understanding is this would be completely legal..
..don't panic
The Private Copying Levy Distortion
The Copyright Board of Canada last week released its proposed tariff for 2007 for the private copying levy. The numbers remain unchanged: 21 cents per CD-R. As prices have dropped, however, the levy now frequently comprises a significant percentage of the retail price. Consider the purchase of 100 blank Maxell CDs. Future Shop retails the 100 CDs for $69.99. The breakdown of this sale is $48.99 for the CDs and $21.00 for the levy (even worse is a current Future Shop deal of 200 blank CD-Rs from HP, which retails for $59.99. The levy alone on this sale is $42.00 (200 CDs x 21 cents/CD) which leaves the consumers paying $17.99 for the CDs and $42.00 for the levy).
This results in a huge distortion in retail pricing when compared to the U.S. market which does not have a levy system. For example, the same Maxell CDs retail for US$34.99 at CompUSA. When you add in the exchange differential, the Canadian cost is just over $40.00. Obviously the price is slightly lower in the US even without the levy (35 cents per CD vs. 40 cents per CD). With the levy, the price increases by another 50 percent.
Given how little Canadians get for their money (the private copying right doesn't cover copying CDs to Apple iPods) is it any wonder that countries such as Australia are considering allowing for such private copying without a levy scheme? The solution in Canada is obvious: either ensure that the levy covers the full panoply of private copying as is the case in France or drop the levy altogether and institute a fair use user right.
If that law was passed in the U.S.A., people would be protesting in front of Congress by burning blank CDs on their laptops and tossing them at their representatives.
Yeah, in the same country where we went to war on questionable intelligence and are still there fighting for who the fuck knows what reason. Or in the same country where e-voting fraud could occur and no one could give a shit. Or in the same country where the President authorized wiretaps on American citizens and no one batted an eye. Or perhaps in the same "free" country where protesters are told where they can and cannot protest and are removed for exercising their right to freedom of expression.
Right. Like anyone in America gives a fuck about their rights and how they are losing them.
Better get your bus ticket to DC now, then.
...it's not far-fetched to interpret this tax as an implicit acknowledgement and even legitimization of piracy. Gentlemen, start your downloads.
My sig is too lon
The other week i upgraded my OS from Ubuntu 5.04 to Ubuntu 5.10. I thought i had backed all of the music i'd downloaded since installing ubuntu back in august '05, but it turns out i hadn't. So I lost about 7 gigs worth of music. When i considered that it was mostly music i hadn't really had the chance to listen to properly yet, i was completely devastated. But that only lasted for about a day, then i shrugged and moved on, scouring the blogosphere for tasty new mp3s to download.
sudo killall humans
Canadians angry over the return of a "Tax on Blank CDs" rally for a for a "100% Tax on dumb-ass taxing schemes"
I lost my sig...
... where can independant Canadian artists who are not affiliated with the labels sign up to receive their cut of this tax? ...
At one of the record labels.
I was quite unhappy about the tax when it was first implemented, but this tax prevents (or should) RIAA style tactics in Canada. Yeah, sure it's another tax, but CD blanks are not that expensive. (Cheap at twice the price, eh?)
It is unfortunate that Geist's site is unreachable. I'd've liked to have RTFA before posting, but hey, this is /.
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
1) The poor are more likely to be in jail than the wealthy.
2) A poor person is more likely to be given a jail sentence (or at least, a longer sentence) than a wealthy person who has committed a similar crime.
Wealth can buy better legal representation, simple as that. Now, to touch on race again, a larger percentation of the black population in the US is porr than in the white population. Therefore, a black person is more likely to spend time in jail than a white man. Furthermore, a man is more likely to spend time in jail if his father has spent significant time in jail.
Now, even if we are to assume that this is not an issue of race, at least at the start, it's easy to see how this can quickly evolve into a race issue. Consider how long this has been the status quo, and can you then honestly say that race has nothing to do with this?
I don't see how you can just blow off the argument about race in your first argument, and then make a claim that the other is "blind to reality" in your second.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Some of your prescription drugs for blank CDs?
In other news Congress is considering a Bush Administration proposal to impose a 100% levy on sales of Monitors and Televisions... The Administration explained this proposal by saying "Concievably any display device has the potential to spread the scourge of pornography, therfore the only expediant thing to do is impose a levy which can be redirected to American Christian Churches in order to subsidize the cost of saving the souls of those victimized by pornography".
Congress is slated to vote on the measure before ending it's current session.
In Spain, a blank CD costs about 50 euro cents, more or less. Of those, a small percentage go directly to the SGAE (Sociedad General de Autores y Editores), which is the Spanish equivalent of the RIAA. This "tax" (it's not a real tax because it's not for the state) is mandatory, according to Spanish laws. It also applies to other media like blank VHS tapes. It is based on the assumption, as the SGAE mentions in its webpage, that for every copied CD, obviously (?), a sale is lost. Yes, there's a lot of controversy about this. More information (in Spanish) at the Spanish Wikipedia:
a da_(Espa%C3%B1a)
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_por_copia_priv
As long as they don't start charging tax on blank DVD's.
They will, but the proceeds will go to the porn industry not the record industry.
I'll trade you blank CDs for perscription drugs.
Deal?
How anyone can conceive of this sort of law being "representative" of the people's will is beyond me.
Seastead this.
As a Canadian ... I hardly find this a problem ... I can fit about 500 mp3's on a CD at 5 MB each ... so if you do the math the cost per song is about what I'd be willing to pay for a legal download service.
Bring on the tax and free the torrents is what I say!
If I recall, another problem with this levy is that its supposed purpose - to collect funds and give them to Canadian artists is being hoarded by CIRA. Something which isn't supposed to happen. And its taken a long time for artist to get paid if at all (I'm sure the money is only going dispraportionately to more "popular" artist).
The other problem with this argument, is that the collection of funds is being used to protect Canadian artists. Frankly, there's only two or three Canadian singers (contemporary) that I actually listen to. I don't download - let alone listen to other Canadian artists, most albums are like the rest of the music industry. I don't want to give money to bad artists simply because I want to backup my university work or my webpage (for which I've done all the work), or make mix CDs of albums I already own.
I'd concur: some of the monies should go to software developers and book publishers. Maybe they can start a turf war with CIRA. So long as I don't pay more.
How can anyone be surprised that a tax is being abused, misused, and poorly managed? (If indeed it is, the article was /.'ed so I haven't a clue what it's claiming.) Especially one driven to fruition by a company!
1) Company A claims/lies/stretches-the-truth that X hurts their business.
2) Company A gets a tax passed on X that benefits A.
3) PROFIT! And lots of it.
I would love to hear a reason why company A should be responsible about the tax; make sure all those "hurt" by X benefit (when A can reap it all); and why politicians should care about a nameless consumer lemming when the companies that put money in their campaign funds would be mad if they did care.
And I'm not asking in the happy, perfect little world that we dream existed, but the cold, hard reality of today where politicians are bought, and the rights of the person are trumped by the rights of a company.
:wq
...the absence of a levy on DVD+/-Rs explains why they are the same price or cheaper than CD-Rs here.
The angle to approach this from, is the infringement of your own copyrights when you use this media to produce, copy, and distribute your own creative works where you reserve all rights under copyright. This would be the position from which to have the tax law struck down, on the argument that it abridges your rights.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
So if I was a Canadian living in Canada, and am forced to pay this tax, then copying music cds for personal use should be perfectly legitimate, since I've already payed for the music with each blank disk. That's always the problem with this kind of tax. It is implicit acknowledgement and condonement of the behavior that the tax was intended to curb. Especially in this case where the tax is largely going to a non-governmental body. So if the canadian music industry association tries to bring civil suits against end users for supposed piracy, I hope the courts would recognize this. So maybe Canadians should welcome this tax as it opens the way to legalized music sharing. Of course that is just a pipe dream.
If they bring the levy back, means I've paid my levy for the copyrights of my downloaded songs. That means I can give up my iTunes account in favour of a torrent account and get my music that way. Why not? I've paid the "levy", so I no longer in "violation" of fair use - I've paid for the copyright.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
I do not understand. Since when you buy a blank media, does this mean that you can legally leech some mp3s and stick them onto this CD, since you already paid for the content?
Same goes for this ipod tax that have too..
When iTunes opened up a Canadian store, I stopped buying pre-recorded CDs. Now I've got to pay an extra levy for my purchased music to put them on media I can use in the car.
Considering that 10% of my CD burning involves music, it's nice to know that such a large portion of the levy is going to the music industry. I can imagine a lot of Canucks leeching even more music just to "stick it to the man."
Anybody got a mirror site?
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
People need to realize that blank CDs don't just grow on trees. In order to sell a blank CD, you have to take a regular CD and remove the content. It doesn't make sense to remove content people want, like software, so most blank CDs are originally Britney Spears or N'Sync CDs with the songs taken off. The music industry gets the money because only the music industry produces CDs with content so poor that it's worth paying a little to remove it and resell as a blank.
paintball
If it's the same as it was before, it only applies to blank CDs that are specifically designed for CD-Audio use, not bulk (eg. spindle) packs that may or may not be used for music.
More importantly, this levy goes hand-in-hand with the philosophy not of assumed guilt, but of "fair use" that includes sharing. Yes, sharing your tunes is perfectly legal in Canada, as it's simply assumed that people will continue to make copies and mixed CDs for friends, etc. in the new digital world.
Regards, Lex
No..
The laws only work in Canada. Take the Blank CDs to the USA and you are subject to american law -- not to mention you just paid extra for blank CDs.
I suppose you could take a bag of dirt from "the land" and spread it on the floor around your computer and then claim you are on "canadian soil" when the police come knockin', but somehow I doubt it would work. Still it would be a good read on Fark.com
... now as soon as I have the blank CDs in my hand, I've already paid for whatever music I feel like downloading and putting on them. Still illegal, but at least now I don't have a guilty consience.
Any why the fuck am I forced to pay these fuckheads for my own copyrighted work? I wonder what would happened if I send in a copy of my images on a cd and request my money back from the levy sice there is no music on the cd only my own copyrighted work.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I think the Canadian manufacturers should retaliate by putting Canadian music on all their blank CDs.
-Loyal
I aim to misbehave.
IN-fucking-SANE
10 cents on CD-R, 50 on CD-RW, 100 on DVDR, 1000 on a Hard disk...., but they will still keep on complaining the revenue they lose on piracy.
They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me. -Nathaniel Lee
The overwhelming majority of the others were handed over to the Americans by people who could reasonably be called bounty hunters.
And remember... NO DISINTERGRATIONS!
You should get your tossing arm ready, because the AHRA was passed in 1992. Your blank CDs are already being taxed...
License to burn cds. Fuck the record labels. I already paid for the stuff when I bought the cds.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
It's legal to copy music in canada, but not legal to make it available to copy, or to give someone else a copy. Thus I can lend someone a CD (without knowledge that they're going to copy it (...looking other way and whistling...)), but not give them a copy or put the MP3s on a ftp server.
Oh yes, and it's perfectly legal to walk into a library with a laptop and snarf their entire collection into mp3s. If they have any music worth snarfing.
Are you sure about that? Perhaps they changed the rules recently, but the way it was originally written into the copyright act was that you could make a copy of any musical recording, regardless of whether or not you owned the original, but only if you made the recording for your own personal use. In other words, you cannot make a recording of a CD you bought and give it to a friend. But, the friend can borrow the CD from you and make a copy for themselves.
I haven't kept up to date on this lately, so perhaps it has changed. If you have some links regarding changes that make it the way you described it, I'd love to seem them.
"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein
If I am purchasing a pack of blank CDs to use as family photo picture storage, family video transferred over from the camcorder and backing up data such as tax records, etc. this tax has no bearing on what I would be using the CDs for. I don't see how they can justify that a percentage of the tax should go back to the recording industry when they cannot prove that the CDs are being used to copy songs. Also - even if I am burning songs or copies of songs that I own the right to (purchased online or an original CD) through fair use provisions I see it as totally illegal to charge me an additional tax for the specific reasons they have laid out.
The Polish Copyright law provides such payment for all electronic devices (HDDs, Pendrives etc.) and media (DVD, CD, DAT, etc.) which may be used for digital copying. But because of such regulation there is an article 23 of the Copyright law, which has very broad definition for pesonal use of digital works (movies, music, _but_ computer programmes are excluded). It means that you may download (and only download, you can not distrubiute it, sell it) and burn such movies, music and any other digitalized work (as I wrote earlier - computer programs are excluded). The payment goes to organizations for collective management of copyrights (lets say very similiar to RIAA and others). Such organization distribute money between authors, producers etc.
TR
http://www.rychlicki.net/
it is writeable, not RE-writeable. once that one file goes on, you cant record anything else, whats burned is burned and you cant add or remove
As an american High School student, I'd like to officially apologize for my generation.
I think this assumed guilt thing is a bit "too much" since it doesn't benefit artists that aren't Canadian (with the exception of those paid through the AMF, which aren't that many in comparison to the rest of the world).
CPCC Royalty Distribution Info
I would think that if we're paying that much on CD's it should go to every organization possible instead of a select few.
I Lost My Virginity While Waiting for BSD to Compile.
I live a twenty-minute drive away from the border; I can very easily just go for a quick run and pick up some Marlboro's / Blank-CDs. Although, knowing how complacent and unmotivated Canadians are, they'll just pay the extra money to avoid troubling themselves any more and come up with some excuse to validate doing so. I'm not bashing here, just stating a hypothesis based on previous observations.
Nobody's gay for Mole-Man.
Very insightful comment, something unusual for Slashdot.
[ home ]
1) Have my son sing his "ABCs"
2) Record his song on a CD... voila, I'm a music company!
3) Canada sends me my cut of the CD tax
4) Profit!!!
"Put your message in a modem, and throw it into the cyber-sea." - Rush
> Second, you can only make copies of music that you legally own.
> For example, you may make a copy of a CD you own and give it to a
> freind... but your friend cannot make a copy of their copy and give
> it away.
I can't speak for the rest of your post, but this, at least, is incorrect.
Canada's Copyright Act, Part VII, Subsection 80:
---
Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
---
In other words: If you make the copy for yourself, and keep the copy, you're in the clear. It doesn't matter if you own the original media or not - you can borrow it from a friend, or take it out of the library, or sell the original to someone else.
You may NOT, however, make a copy of a CD you have and give the copy to a friend. To my reading, it looks like anything approaching distribution of a copy is illegal. You may, however, lend the original to a friend and let him make a copy.
The subsection (2) referred to in the quote above stipulates that you may not take the copy and sell it, give it away, broadcast it, communicate it to the general public, etc. etc.. The copy is for your private use.
- "how is the gov't supposed to know that the UPS package you are getting is CDs and not say a CD case holder?"
You are responsible for accurately and truthfully declaring what you import into Canada.
You need a Canadian Customs Invoice and supply the correct tariff code to identify and to allow the government to apply the necessary tax. If products are falsely or incorrectly declared, you would be subject to a rather large fine against what you've imported, and the fine is not relative to the cost of the goods.
The government likes to collect their GST, and supply Statscan with data. If you have not been compliant, and haven't been recently caught, consider yourself lucky and hope customs does not challange you on what was shipped in.
I would have held off on buying a DVD burner for a while longer; but it became ridiculous.
A DVDR became cheaper than CDR (after levee) a couple years ago -- and it's only gotten worse since. And I'm not talking about price per bit.
They don't even sell 5 or 10 packs of CDs in the smaller stores anymore. A while ago, I had to buy some CDRs for a client to burn those stupid Gateway recovery CD's (which is a whole other rant). I had to visit a few nearby stores before I finally gave up and bought a spindle of 50 CDs.
I can't wait for them to try and put a levee on DVD's... lets see, 6 times the capacity... say $1 per blank?
I add data to discs all the time.
See: multisession.
Not sure if you can add audio tracks and make a hybrid multisession or not, but probably.
"I do not understand. Since when you buy a blank media, does this mean that you can legally leech some mp3s and stick them onto this CD, since you already paid for the content?"
Nope. Many non-Canadians assume that the tariff means that Canada has a socialized music industry, in which the performers and artists are compensated only through the tariff. That's not the case... the tarrif is seen by its supporters as a way of supplementing performers and artists for presumed non-compensated copying of their work, but it's a drop in the bucket.
Similarly, here in the US, we pay taxes to keep the police departments running, but this doesn't give us the right to commit crimes.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
I don't know nearly enough about 'law' but I think it is extremely illogical for the consumer to pay for crime of which they haven't been found guilty. However, this is a 'tax' and isn't a criminal matter. And I am unfamiliar with the Canadian constitution, but I have a feeling they have the same "no taxation without representation" rule that we have in the U.S. And if that's the case, I'd like to know what 'service to the people' is being bought through these taxes? My assumption would be that the services are in the form of musical licenses since this is all about copying music.
These taxes essentially make copying music to canadian-purchased blank CD media legal.
I'm sure this will take a huge team of lawyers and a lot of public outcry to make it happen, but one way or the other, the music industry will have to give something up -- they can't have both a 'tax' and pursue additional civil penaties against individuals at the same time. If a person who downloaded music can show that he did so in order to utilize his rights granted to him by purchasing blank media from Canada, then I doubt there's much more damage that can be claimed. If this idea holds up, I predict a huge increase in the sale of blank CD media from Canada.
So now will it be legal to download free songs in Canada? If so....so what. If not...raise hell.
Not a geek just looking for one.
When I click on the link I get a blank page. Did I forget to pay my taxes?
how about fact #3, POOR PEOPLE STEAL STUFF. maybe if they would stop robbing people they would stop going to jail.
sup
Er... we already have that tax; the G.S.T.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Because of the way the CD filesystem works, you'll waste about 13 megabytes of space.
Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
Consider the purchase of 100 blank Maxell CDs. Future Shop retails the 100 CDs for $69.99. The breakdown of this sale is $48.99 for the CDs and $21.00 for the levy (even worse is a current Future Shop deal of 200 blank CD-Rs from HP, which retails for $59.99. The levy alone on this sale is $42.00 (200 CDs x 21 cents/CD) which leaves the consumers paying $17.99 for the CDs and $42.00 for the levy).
For example, the same Maxell CDs retail for US$34.99 at CompUSA. When you add in the exchange differential, the Canadian cost is just over $40.00.
Umm... excuse me
This article is on crack. Maybe if the authour was actually a Canadaian he'd know WTF he was talking about.
See above links. You can get 200 blank CDs for 40 bucks anywhere. And when they are on sale you can routinely get them for less, like 20 or 25.
So that means either this guy doesn't know WTF he is tlaking about RE the actual cost of the levy, or all these stores are selling CDs at a loss constantly.
I think option A is more likely.
I just put my collection out by the curb. Where I work on my car..
..don't panic
From Canadian Private Copying Collective:
Independent artists with no promotion, no radio/TV play, no licensing (songs in movies, etc.), and no retail sales stand a snowball's chance of getting their share.
Isn't it nice to know that the government can use something intended for the public benefit (taxation) and turn it into a profit generator for private interests. What next, a tax on visiting the capital building that gets passed onto Disneyworld, since if you are visiting the capital instead of Disneyland then you are stealing POTENTIAL profits from the Disney Corp. The assumption is that you absolutely would've bought something from them otherwise, therefore it is a certainty that you are stealing by default. People used to bitch about "welfare moms", where is the outcry against welfare corporations?
How about a tax on bank accounts that gets passed on to banks to cover robberies? Why do we have law enforcement of economic crimes then? Just pass another tax!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
We're still using CDs? I thought people used DVDs for archiving, and iPods for music.
Joking aside, I haven't purchased a spindle of CDs in over a year. They cost more per unit (in Canada) than a blank DVD, yet yield more than 6x the capacity. This move might just force many people to do the same... and buy a few CD-RWs to still have that "legacy" capability.
Psstt want to buy some cds? Seriously I can not belive that, I can't read the article as its been slashdotted does this apply to other blank media, floppy disks, dvds, usb pen drives? I might buy some cds for my cousin when he comes as a present.....
what was the middle thing again?
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
If their concern truly is about these discs being used to unfairly copy their music, to the detriment of the artists, maybe I have a solution.
The MusicBiz has all the infrastructure in place to make CDs, right? Maybe they could *get into the CD-R/W business*. That way they could make money from the people who are *obviously* (ergh!) trying to steal from them -- and even those who don't. They can then divide up the profit according to some Fair Formula (double ergh!), keep some portion, and distribute the rest to the poor-starving-artists.
They can then proceed to shut the hell up. See? Free market solution to a free market problem. Of course, I'm sure the next "logical" step would be to lobby through a law prohibiting the sale of CDR's not manufactured by *IAA.
I don't burn CD's or even DVD's anymore. I own a bunch of rewritable media of both types, I have an iPod, and I use my laptop to view movies and content on my TV. I am waiting for a good network multimedia box so I can stream content from various PC's in the house to my home theater system. Either that or a decent HTPC. I rarely, if ever, have a need to buy blank media anymore.
The bottom line is, why not tax the CD's and DVD's with Hollywood content on them? I mean, why not impose a tax on people buying the content as a pre-emptive strike against the possibility of them copying and distributing the content for free. Why tax a blank CD or DVD that may or may not be used in piracy and instead tax the content that IS being pirated? I mean this is why most retail software is generally expensive because software makers are recuperating the expected loss of sales of software piracy by forcing legitimate software buyers to pay more. The same should go for those people still buying pre-recorded CD's and DVD's.
I am being tongue in cheek about this, but it just shows how out of touch the entertainment industry is with reality when they start imposing and expecting profits off of media that many people never use to pirate their content. If your worried about losing sales with CD's and DVD's, then charge more for them. Its been working for the software industry, they are a multi-billion dollar industry because of it.
I move to introduce the concept of Open Source music and movies. Every song should have posted the sheet music and lyrics and every DVD should have posted its screenplay online so that you can build your own free music and movie library legitimately. Open Source IS the solution for everything after all!!!!!!
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Obviously you have never tried to cross the border. It's actually kind of humerous because you can tell the cultural difference immediatly. You head from the US to Canada, and the Canadian customs officers are more concerned with collecting the GST and import duties then they are about looking for drugs and weapons. You head from Canada back into the US, and the US customs officers are out sniffing for drugs and and worried if your beard looks too long that you mgiht be a terrorist.
Exactly. That's what I do. I got a 1GB flash drive for Christmas and it has effectively replaced CD-Rs (except for the one time I had to mail someone a CD-R with data on that for screenprinting purposes). The 1GB of flash after all the rebates (the reason I love Fry's) was like 35 bucks. Granted I can't archive huge amounts of data on it. But that's what DVD-Rs are for. All my music I keep on my hard drive and I just use my iPod. Portable CD players are really lame once you've gotten used to having an iPod.
Bungo!
Didn't Canada elect a new party to power? Why isn't this matter brought up with local student groups to write their MPs? I'm wondering if this makes any sense since I don't understand how blank CDs automatically qualify for something going to the recording industry. After all, with the amount of people burning home movies and photos as well as documents, this doesn't seem to be fair at all. Just my two cents.
Apologizing for Canadian socialism, yes you are being taxed for CD's you buy and likely aren't using to make music CDs (Most hardcore pirates have Mp3 players anyway)
The money is being sent primarily to the recording industry (The Enemy)
Mitigating Factors, there is a system in place to analyse piracy and try and determine how much of each artist is being downloaded and dividing the funds accordingly, a not insignificant portion goes to artists sponsored by the Canadian government (Making sure that this money gets spent wisely will become more of an issue as there is more funding).
So basically the Canadian government has resolved the problem of the recording industry and created a system to replace the current music model... not without it's own problems of course but with promise.
Here's one FAQ on this.
The independent non-profit that collects the levy, the CPCC, has some additional information.
This levy:
a) penalizes non-infringers and discourages fair use
b) only compensates a select group who are harmed by illegal copying
c) is managed by a group with no democratic oversight
d) is confusing so as to encourage double-taxation
e) only taxes a select group of infringers, those who copy to certain types of media
f) is easily avoided through poor construction (you can legally self-import all your CD-Rs and avoid the levy)
g) other reasons?
What about people who use blank optical media to, oh, I don't know, store some sort of data that isn't audio?
What about them? When I visit other countries, I pay sales tax on a number of purchases. I had no right to (or need of) many of the services these taxes paid for. Should I have received a refund?
And the point? Criminals are in jail.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
And maybe if the wealthy would pay a goddamned wage that someone could earn a living on, the poor wouldn't have to steal. But, as the saying goes, steal $10, you are a thief; steal $1,000,000, you are a businessman.
I do not know that it is still in effect but there used to be music CD-Rs that had a tax on them that went to the RIAA. Some companies made CD players that would allow you to copy your CDs but only to these special music CDRs.
They cost more than CDs and no one bought them. I haven't seen them for a few years.
I have one question for the people in Canada. If you live close to the US border don't you just buy your CDRs in the states?
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Never understood that.
The levy on flash/hard-drive players was reasonable (IMO). The benefit? Copying to your "ipod"/flash or other player was fully legal.
I can still argue that such a player is a common way to store music, and (as that is its only purpose), the levy SHOULD have been collected. The device falls (should fall) under personal copying provisions and is fully legal to use. If I can round up a thousand people that USE their portable music player that way (the way it was intended to be used), it is proven.
But, having the levy overturned causes the headache of a potential legal challenge (which would not have been the case otherwise). The issue that would be easiest to attack would be the transitivity of the personal copy provision. The law right now does not differentiate the source of the copy, and I would like to keep it that way.
I am for increasing the scope of the levy, to cover such things as DVDs (thus allowing the "free" sharing of movies). Basically, take a slice, and leave me the fuck alone.
Ratboy
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
Seriously, I've known dozens of people who download lots of music, and they almost *never* burn their music to a CD. They just keep it on their hard drives. Besides, who would want to burn 40 gigs of mp3's onto CDs? That would take forever! And when you wanted to listen to it you'd be spending all your time swapping CDs, unless you had a 60-disc changer.
Meanwhile, CDs are used all the time for backing up data, distributing applications, sharing family pictures, etc... I burned almost 20 CDs in the past week, backing up data.
It would make a *lot* more sense to tax something that's used entirely for music, such as speakers or portable music players.
I was wondering about this very thing when I read this post -- this has been the fact in America going back to audio-cassettes iirc. The labels get paid for blank media to offset the projected loss of revenue due to copying using that media.
This needs to be a bigger part of the discussion.
Nobody's assuming guilt.
They're simply assuming there is a certain amount of copying (legal or otherwise) and deducing that such copying has a cost to the record industry. As such, a logical means to recoup the losses is to charge a levy on blank media. It's not the most direct way of recouping the cost, but its easy to administer, and it does mean that in general, those who copy a lot of music will contribute more money than those who don't.
I am going to create a game with 1 free level and 5 levels once registered that is VERY easy to crack. The cracked version will likely get traded/shared/burned. Then I'm going to ask $10000 per registered copy. If I can show that I am having $1M of my software pirated per year and burned then I should be able to get a share of that action!
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
That's why when they removed the levy from mp3 players I finally bought one, and then switched to DVD backup, there is no levy from the music industry on blank dvds as of right now anyway. Uses less disks for backup. For those who may bring up car audio, my deck has a line in for other audio devices. In response to the other idea put forth about going state side, unless you are livving in a border town, it's not worth it, the savings just aren't there, the only thing accomplished by going stateside is sticking it to the Canadian music industry.
piss off
I am a Canadian so technically through this tax I am allowed to burn music CD's all I want to. Now since these CD's are my property I am free to sell them to whomever wants them.
Uh...no. You can copy music, but only for personal use. That means you can't sell the copies or use them as a DJ.
Reality is not what the media feeds people like you in order to push a slanted agenda. wake up and look around. you might actually trip over the truth.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
and why -- to this day -- there is no video readily available of the Pentagon "attack."
A logical, non consipracy reason is simply that people visiting New York are quite likely to have video cameras since it's a major tourist destination. People visiting the Pentagon are likely not to have video cameras since it's a military installation
Did you actually buy any at that price?
Some places include the levy in the sticker price, some don't. London Drugs, for example, doesn't. Kinda like how many places don't include deposit and environmental handling charge in the price of a 12-pack of pop.
The poor music industry thinks that a tax will help them innovate their clearly out of date business model. How about get rid of the "music industry?" What is the "music industry" other than a cd copier? The artists are clearly not part of this "music industry," and in fact it consists of "record companies." Well I have news for you "music industry"... there are no records anymore... there are downloads and cd's. Nobody calls them "records." Here is a sad story (for real, not sarcastic): The great Paul McCartney was not allowed to play his own songs because of copyright issues... he didn't have enough money to buy his own recording rights and so Michael Jackson bought them. McCartney did something that the "music industry" should do: adapt. McCartney could not sell cds with Beatles songs, so he just TOURED. Touring, meaning: giving the consumer something that can't truly be downloaded or put onto a cd or dvd, allowed him to continue making massive amounts of money. He didn't ask for a tax on beatles songs so he could make money. Down with the music industry.
A moderate politician?
In Vancouver we are blessed with "The Night Market", a Hong Kong style outdoor market, where apparently, (and don't quote me on this) the vendors sometimes neglect to collect the CD levy. At least I assume it to be so since I bought a 50 disc spindle of CD-R for $12 Cdn last summer.
Extra bonus - The fried octopus balls are to die for.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Given you can fit over 100 mp3's (at 128kB/s), that's a pretty cheap compensation for downloaded mp3s from a p2p network. And if you record other data, well that's the price you pay for socialism. Believe me, the recording industry would give back every dime collected on media for the ability to shut down the p2p traffic. They just take it because it's the best they can do in a socialist climate.
Vote for Pedro
Maybe some day I might be able to move back..
I looked into this very carefully.
d _protect-e.html
The levy essentially allows us Canadians to copy CDs at will.
Check the Canadian gov't (Industry Canada) page:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/sc_mrksv/cipo/cp/copy_g
under non-infringing uses:
"borrowing a musical tape from a friend to copy onto a blank tape for private use (a royalty payment to the owner of the song rights has been paid when the blank tape was purchased)."
If I want to borrow one of your music CDs and make a copy on a disc that the levy was paid on, I can do it LEGALLY, in Canada. It makes no difference that the artist is a U.S. artist, Canadian or otherwise. CRIA (Canadian Recording Industry Association) absolutely hates that law.
And put Danish pastors in Jail for speaking the Biblical view of homosexuality...
First off, two of the three you mentioned are in jail, and the third is still on trial, so that really doesn't support the point that rich people don't go to jail.
Second, even if those mentioned did support the parent's points, it is still only 3 examples, hardly a significant sample.
sup
Yea I can see that: I treat you and this white person the same way but because that was not the sage 50 years ago you can still claim racism..
Your iPod is subject to the levy too. I think the thumb drive is exempt, so long as it doesn't have music playing capabilities.
I kind of like the levy though. I think it amounted to something like $20 on my iPod and a few cents on each CD (which I rarely use). However, since I paid that $20 I've given the music industry their cut so now I don't feel bad at all about not paying them any more. I'll support bands I like directly though, because the CRIA isn't so good at giving them the proceeds from the levy.
We're both wrong. The tax credit no longer exists as it was cancelled by McGuinty as one of his election promises.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
sup
Why take up valuable time and space by actually posting articles? At least once a day, Slashdot should just post:
DRM.
Go.
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
I have all but quit burning CDs. They are slow to burn, and fragile when finished. This tax will make them just less appealing.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Yeah well, how else are they supposed to make money? No one wants to buy their generic shitty releases so they've got to make money somehow, right? .... *sigh*
Maybe they STEAL STUFF because they NEED STUFF? Could THAT be the reason why poor people steal less than rich people? I dunno... naah, it's probably just a coincidence.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Looking closely at the material, this is still in the proposal stage, and there is time to object to it (I just sent in my objection). The actual proposal and the contact information for writing in to object can be found here: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/tariffs/proposed/c25022006 -b.pdf
Speaking as somebody who has dealt with proposals in the public sector before, when you object, make certain that you make a reasoned argument. Point out the flaws in the assumptions behind the levy (such as the fact that not everybody is going to use the media they're taxing for copying music, etc.), and how it makes the levy unfair. Whatever you do, don't make statements about good and evil, or corruption - it's a surefire way to get ignored. Just point out the flaws in the proposal, give concrete examples if you can when you do, and give your name, city, and province/territory.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
I'll support bands I like directly though
I do that by going to their concerts instead. They get a helluva lot more money from the live shows than off their CD sales... And at least the CRA doesn't get a cut...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
There is an extremely long list of examples of rich people avoiding jail time through monetory resources. It's how OJ could afford his dream team of defense lawyers. It doesn't always have to be a major affair - consider the rich kid getting away with a dui.
I grew up in the middle class, a bit above the mean, and I have had groups of frineds in several economic classes. Just from seeing how the police have dealt with them, it's obvious that the law treats them differently. A cop in a blighted neighborhood deal with a disturbance involving the poor a lot different than when responding to a disturbance amongst the wealthy in an upper-crust neighborhood. Anyone who claims differently is either truly ignorant or willingly blind.
The courts often take their cues from the police, so the treatment continues. And all most people do is shake their head at the "bad element", and wonder why they don't trust the system.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
So you are comparing a CD to a policeman? The last time I checked, the police were doing a real job - a dangerous one that I wouldn't want to do myself.
This tax on the other hand is a penalty for which no crime has been proven, just assumed.
W
Like anyone in America gives a fuck about their rights and how they are losing them.
I would but they label you as Un-Patriotic for thinking such things.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Yup. Live concerts, buy the t-shirt, etc.
I can't wait for a $16.99 (MPAA) tax on renting a DVD in America or going to the mvoies. At that point I am for sure going to burn a copy -- no matter if there is a nasty "skit" during the previews that discourages me to or not.
Can't let these crazy Canadians have all the taxable fun.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
What I really love about this is that the struggling recoding artists have to pay the levy to get blank CD's on which they record their own music for sale.
Having paid the levy it will eventually go to the record lables who refuse to sign them or have otherwise onerous contractual requirements.
It is just so wonderful to have a system that taxes the struggling artists and at the same time justifies it with a lie.
I am sorry, but I cannot understand your statement. Can you please rephrase it.
When the CCB got this passed in the first place, they though they were protecting themselves. Then, a few years later, when they tried to convince the courts that download music was illegal under Canadian law, a judge ruled that if it was legal for the music industry to collect a levy for all recordable media sold, on the grounds that said media could potentially be used to record copyrighted music, it was also legal to download copyrighted music for personal use.
I suspect that this levy being re-introduced is essentially the music industry admitting defeat. They tried to stop the Internet from changing the world, and found that they could not, so they're settling for what little revenue they can reap from it.
You don't get karma for funny posts... if this is to be labeled any such behavior I think it is attention whore.
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
... Celine Dion. Oh yeah... and Alanis Morissette, too. And Rush? OK, maybe the Guess Who still have a couple of compilation CD's. That should be it... But think of the poor Celine Dion!
That is all.
Sigh. I have never illegally downloaded music. 9 out of 10 CD-Rs I use are for data backup, and occasionally I do make a fair-use copy of a CD I bought.
Assuming you're in Canada, the only way you can illegally download music is if it's not for personal use.
Until the private copying law came into effect, you couldn't make a fair-use copy of a CD you bought because Canadian law doesn't include the concept of Fair Use. It does include a more limited concept of Fair Dealing.
As I recall, the private copying law was lobbied for by the Canadian music industry (they wanted the levy that's collected). In compensation for that levy, Canadians were granted the right to copy music for personal use. The industry liked it because they were getting paid for something Canadians were doing anyway (taping music off the radio, making copies for their friends). It was something that would cost too much to enforce anyway. Now they want to have their cake and eat it too.
Even if I set aside the flawed logic, why does the music biz get it all? What about other businesses that are hurt by "copying".
I don't know about Canada, but here in Denmark the money is a compensation for legal copying.
We cannot legally copy software without consent from the copyright holder, and you can't put a "tax" on an illegal behaviour. So there is no compensation to the software industry. (Copying for backup purposes is allowed, but we cannot use the backup and the original simultaneously, so even with the most flawed logic, this legal copying do not represent a loss for the copyright holder.)
However, with some limitations, we can legally copy music without consent from the copyright holder. The music industry gets a compensation for this when we buy blank CDs. (The limitations are: Only copying within the household is allowed, we can only copy from an original, and we are not allowed to circumvent a copy protection. So with the increasing use of copy protection, the compensation ought to decrease, but there are no signs of that.)
The result of this is that the Danish music industry earns money from illegal copying of software. Scary thought.
Right. Like anyone in America gives a fuck about their rights and how they are losing them.
Why don't you? It's more effective to spend time lobbying your representatives than to try to convince the Slashdotter, many of whom reject the preemption model already.
(BTW, that's the answer to why we're in Iraq - strategic preemption - no matter how you feel about it at least recognize the strategy so you can lobby against it effectively)
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Please go to the source and get the facts first. http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/ For an interesting discussion on how this all works please go here http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml
I'll tell you what. If you want to treat me like I'm a pirate who is just downloading/burning songs onto CDs left and right, the damnit I'm going to be a pirate downloading/burning songs onto CDs left and right. Argh.
Try going into your typical non-expert electronics store; Best Buy will do nicely if you can stomach it. Now watch as Joe or Jane Sixpack walks in to buy a spindle of blanks for their kid. I'll bet they pick up the "audio" CD-Rs as often as the "data" CD-Rs - after all, they're planning to record audio to them, right? And they're more expensive, so they must be special, right?
I used to explain to people that they're more expensive because they're taxed, but gave up because people looked at me like I was insane. Maybe I'll try it next time without the goth makeup or kilt.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
The record industry is treating us like the suckers we are. The sooner bands start selling their music directly to their fans, the better for everybody. Presumably the record companies recognise that this will happen, and are therefore screwing us whilst they can.
At least Bush, too, will, pass.
Can't say the same about attitudes in a place where most think it is O.K. that the government can prevent a person from paying a doctor to help them when they're sick, even when the Supreme Court says this is perfectly fine. Or a place where killing an armed intruder trying to rob your store gets you a murder charge that sticks.
You could've hired me.
after i got an mp3 player that could hold my entire collection, i stopped burning cds. i am still on one of those huge spindles i bought back in the 50 for free after rebate days. i only really use cds to burn linux distros and stuff or to make bootable utility disks. most people who want a copy of some of my music ask for in in mp3 format anyway (thumbdrive). total cds burned in past 3 years is under 15.
Does this mean that, as you're paying to burn copyrighted music, that you are now allowed to buy all the blank media you can, and burn all the copyrighted music that you can?
If you're paying for the privilege then they can't turn around and say that it's illegal - they've legitimised it by making you pay for it...
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Er, it's up to you to prove to the nice custom's inspector you took them out of Canada.
When one leaves Canada with personal belongings of significant value, like cameras, one fills out customs forms, with description and serial numbers, and gets a customs stamp on them, to prove they originated in Canada.
Last time I entered Canada, I almost got arrested for "inciting a riot" because of the NRA bumper stickers on my car that say "Freedom is not Free" and "Crime Control, not Gun Control".
You could've hired me.
Can you provide a link to that?
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
... as much as 70 percent of the purchase price now heading directly to the music industry.
...
How much of it ends up in the hands of the recording artists? I'm betting it's a lot less than 70%, probably around 1%.
But I could be an optimist here
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
So true. It is amazing how often the Cdn border officers ask,
1. Where you've been?
2. How much are you bringing back
This always makes me think...
3. ???
4. Profit
Your links consisted of 2 CD spindles, each of which end up costing $60/200 blank CDs. Which is what the parent said: a current Future Shop deal of 200 blank CD-Rs from HP, which retails for $59.99.
The levy is here, it's real, and it's by far the biggest cost of blank CDs in Canada.
It's also a load.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Sorry, I believe its insane to call parity racism because of the past which is, in effect, what the parent was saying. "Yea we know its really about being poor and not Black but we cant ignore what thigs were like 50 years ago"...
I remember when this tax first came out, I went into London Drugs to buy some CDRs, walked up to them with the counter, and the guy said "Are you using these for music or data?"... I said "What's the diff?"... and he said "Well, if you're using them for music, we have to charge this new levy, otherwise we don't. Apart from that it's the same. So, I know you're not using them for music, but I have to ask all the same, I have to give you the opportunity to say 'no'... which you, of course, will, because you look neither obscenely wealthy nor notably stupid."
I don't think they quite understood the letter of the law, but their interpretation of the spirit of it, and their interestingly linguistic way around it, was quite entertaining.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
I think we need to have a tax on cars, too. Someone may use them to rob a home, business, or bank...but we'll only give the collected taxes to the banks cause that is what passes for logic these days.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_hat8.htm Sometime in 2003, Pastor Åke Green delivered a sermon at his Pentecostal church in Borgholm, Sweden. It was titled: "Is Homosexuality Genetic or an Evil Force that Plays Mind Games with People?" He cited the main "clobber" passages in the Bible that have often been used to attack homosexual behavior. He said that: "The Bible clearly teaches about these abnormalities. Sexual abnormalities are a deep cancerous tumor in the entire society. The Lord knows that sexually twisted people will rape the animals. ....Because of these sins, the land will vomit out its inhabitants. The political response to this in our country is then what Paul talks about: 'We know God's righteous decree that those who live that way deserve death. Still it is in that very way they live, and worse yet, they think it is good when others do it.' [Paraphrase of Romans 1:32.] " ...
"All homosexuals are not pedophiles or perverts. They nevertheless open the door to forbidden areas and allow sin to take hold of the life of the mind. And the one who is a pedophile today does not start out as such. They simply begin by changing their gender relationships. That is how it began. To be 'faithful' in a homosexual relationship is in no way a better relationship than where you frequently change partners. It is equally detestable in the eyes of God. From God's perspective it is to be rejected, and from God's perspective it is as much sin if you frequently change partners as it is to live in a [committed] homosexual relationship. It makes no difference before God's Word......" ...
"Those who live that way are not a child of God and cannot be one. We must say it so people hear it. Do not fool yourselves, dear people. It is deceit of the highest level if you think you can fool yourselves. For the Devil says: 'You can be a Christian, and you can be good as a Christian, and you can live like this anyway.' 'You can be faithful in your partnership,' says the enemy of souls. However, the Word of God says something else. Delusions that lead to punishment..."
After trial, Green was found guilty and sentenced to one month in prison. Public prosecutor Kjell Yngvesson is reported as saying: "One may have whatever religion one wishes, but [the sermon] is an attack on all fronts against homosexuals. Collecting Bible [verses] on this topic as he does makes this hate speech."
Thankfully, and eventually this conviction was overturned but it does show the way Europe and Canada are drifting when it comes to tolerance of anything outside the 'desired' standards for religious discourse..
Given the proliferation of MP3 players and portable media like flash drives, the notion of carrying music files around on a little plastic disc is getting more and more silly with each passing year. I think the law sucks...it's blatently designed to squeeze more money out of consumers but it's not going to do a damn thing to slow illegal music sharing.
Your CDs are being taxed just like in Canada. Except that you don't even get the right to copy with that -- so the tax is pure profit for the record labels. Now you'd better start protesting.
What's that? All talk and no action? How typical...
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
If you are being legally charged for piracy, then wouldn't logic follow that the Canadian government has endorsed piracy as legal behavior? I would think this is fantastic news actually. If I took 70% of the price of a blank CD-R that wouldn't actually buy me much music. But I could fit hundreds of pirated MP3's on a single CD-R. What a bargin! Is one required to purchase CD-R's to take advantage of legal piracy? I can't wait till this one comes to the US!
All taxes are out of hand... In the United States you get penalized if you make more money or chose to invest, in Norway you get a shaft if you like to spend a lot and in Canada, you have to pay extra for CD-Rs.
In order to fix this sytem, one approach is not going to be enough. We need to limit the power of the government and the power of the corporate world if we want to survive. Otherwise, we will soon give up our first-born boys... You know, boys cause trouble and all of that :)
I have no idea what the format of the CDR media or filesystem is, but I can imagine that there's a bit somewhere at the beginning telling the CD what it is. I know there are about 4 data types and at least 1 audio type.
Call me a bastard, but I would pay the same amount for a data-only CD that donated part of the money to something like the EFF instead of taking it as a tax.
Someone could really bank on this, though, if it were possible. Even if it were possible to just not allow one of the bits to be set that would disallow audio recordings to the CD. As long as the data CD works to store data, preferably in a mode that allows multisession data.
In that case, it can only count as a data CD, and no music industry can argue that. Unless, of course, they start taxing per GB on hard disks, too.
Someone could really bank off this if they could get it to work. Call them Music Industry Free CDs.
First a mirror; http://www.mirrordot.org/stories/6313facd6836dbf60 e15be4aeeb17c69/index.html
I suppose the answer is to buy CDRW instead of CD-R.
But I think the blank media producers should go further than that.
They should pick a song and record it on their CD-RW.
This would have several benifical effects:
It avoids the levy.
The song would almost certainly be a #1 seller, potentially, the title could be for sale to the highest bidder.
It makes them a music publisher, which means they get a cut of the sales of their competitors.
We pay the levy in Canada because there is a private copying exemption for audio works (not video) in our copyright law. The Canadian Private Copying Collective was created to regulate the levy as it applies to recordable media and see that royalties are paid to rights holders for private copying.
As I understand it, the CPCC meets every year to decide the coming year's levies, but they are free to set the levy for the next two years if they wish.
That's it.
Right. Like anyone in America gives a fuck about their rights and how they are losing them.
That's why an informed electorate is the lifeblood of democracy. More Americans might care, if they even had a clue what was going on or what was at stake. On just one area: How many people, left to their own devices, have the time, energy, and wherewithal to figure out the differences between trademarks vs. patents vs. copyright vs. trade secrets vs. the fiction of "intellectual property"? How many would then make the leap to form opinions and understand the changes that our government has made the last decade on issues such as the public domain, fair use, reverse engineering, patent proliferation, and so on? And after that successfully influence public policy on any matter?
If left to do their own footwork, precious few would make it past even the earliest hurdles. In and old and romantic theory, journalists serve as the advocates for the people, identifying and reporting on issues that impact the people and the public domain. There are some that still do this work, but the conflicts of interest in news media are staggering. More than distortion in news that's written, there's the story of what news stories are told and (more importantly) what aren't.
Now expand the problem from the limited scope of information rights issues to the vast panoply of domestic and international public policy issues... it's downright overwhelming. Especially considering that the few who truly get informed and become activists must combat the power of monied special interest lobbies.
It's certainly possible and worthwhile to become an informed citizen, but it takes work, and the skill to discriminate between poor and reliable news sources. Worse, going through this process challenges the comfortable platitudes dished out by the media and the major political parties. There's that choice of red pill vs. blue pill again -- stay within the comfortable zone of information control, or wake up and smell reality.
Okay, after reading the linked page it said the charge was overturned in appeal. Unless the high court yet again reverses the current decision I see nothing here but a bad judge, and bad judges happen (hence the appellate court system).
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
Have you ever considered the possibility that for our current economic system to work, there MUST be a class of the unemployed? This keeps wages down, and keeps wage-slaves from making demands on their employers. Things are not as simple as "Get a job, bum!"
So he skips out on 100% of his income taxes (which the rest of the taxpayers get to pay for) and then uses the windfall to ensure that he can continue making probably close to 12-14% on his own personal take while leaving 7-8% for the poor fools that got suckered in by the pyramid scheme. I wouldn't be surprised if, because of the verbage "adjusted gross earnings", he doesn't even need to pay taxes on the earnings for the money which his fund will earn!
And he's not the only one. That's the primary mode of operation for people who can afford both $165 million dollar donations and their own funds. What could you, as a private citizen, do? Donate maybe a few hundred to a local charity and hope that they use it for good? They sure as hell aren't going to put it back into CDs which you control.
A big assed pyramid scheme.
The government itself is not stealing your liberties. Their new programs are enabling criminals who will.
It's really another example of the Canadian gov't showing the world what it's best at: taxing the shit out of its people :-)
It's obvious to any thinking person that the tax is both unfair and stupid. Unfortunately the law makers who are imposing it have suffered brain death, and everyone has just been too nice to tell them... We'll pay the tax of course just like the bitches we are. I admit that outside of griping, voting, signing the occasional online petition, I don't do much to actually "reach out" to those in power to make myself heard. So I'm a very typical Canadian in this regard :-) My general attitude is that I will vote for the guy who has the least amount of plans for my money.
You either need to stage a Boston Tea Party, or wrangle a Cheney hunting trip invite for the responsible Canadian.
Tax CDs huh? Hey wassat? Blam!
This is not in the least a usable argument. Unless the original poster drives a lot (in particular, if they are a taxi or truck driver), then their contribution to road use isn't significant and they probably are paying their fair share. And through gasoline taxes, probably everyone is paying fairly for road use.
Second, just because "we" (I assume you mean US citizens) pay less taxes than other countries, doesn't mean that we can't cut more. For example, there's little justification for farm subsidies. And a big share of the US budget is the transfer of money via Social Security and other entitlement programs.
Incidentally, since I veered onto my current favorite flame-bait subject here, I loathe programs that force people to become involved. Ie, just because I have to pay Social Security doesn't mean that I want to use the services of Social Security.
Actually you can download mp3's (court ruling I don't have the link)
And you can copy someones CD for personal use (Copyright law)
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33770
You got the name of the place wrong, it's "Soviet Canuckistan".
You could've hired me.
So, I pay the RIAA when I buy blank media, then I pay em again when I pay for my music online to burn it to disc. Double dipping bastards...
looks like another jealous yankee doodle
when in doubt press enter and we'll figure it out later..
And that's why I now just purchase in bulk mostly from Germany.
(because there's a decent online store shipping here there)
It doesn't suck too much for me, but it sure sucks for Swedish companies.
It's their problem and issue to take with our government though. Hopefully they have more money than me to handle these things. I just can't understand how they can introduce such an obviously bad and anti-competitive idea for our business in this area. Do they believe we can only purchase disks from our own country??
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
BUT only if industries other than the music industry get their cut too (What about all the people with pirated movies, games, ebooks, software and so on on their blank CDs?)
AND if everyone whos copyright is being violated gets their cut for said violations
Sad but true. Us Americans take for granted that which our forefathers gave their lives to protect.
hmm... perhaps.. but if you pay people not to work, they're technically not unemployed. for your theory to work, you need people -- looking for work -- not just sans job.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
It's not just enought to give food to those that can't afford it.
It's not just enought to give food to everyone that wants it.
It's not just enought to give food to everyone, no matter what.
We have to give food to everyone, and keep them from any alternative.
Because if they could buy food, some would have better food than others.
Is that about right?
This is great - now when old people up there to buy perscription drugs, they can make up for the trouble by selling cheep blank cd's! its perfect!
"What does slashdotting mean?"
"You've never heard of slashdot?"
"I know it makes websites not work."
Who decides who gets the revenue from the tax, and how do they decide it?
Seastead this.
Or a place where killing an armed intruder trying to rob your store gets you a murder charge that sticks.
No -- here you can protect your property with force. That is if you simply see someone trying to steal your stuff you and your buddies can chase him down and stop him. If you see an armed robber attempting to take your property you can legally shoot him. Read the criminal code and know your rights, specifically the following section: (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/text.html)
27. Every one is justified in using as much force as is reasonably necessary
(a) to prevent the commission of an offence
(i) for which, if it were committed, the person who committed it might be arrested without warrant, and
(ii) that would be likely to cause immediate and serious injury to the person or property of anyone; or
(b) to prevent anything being done that, on reasonable grounds, he believes would, if it were done, be an offence mentioned in paragraph (a).
So, you think a regulatory framework where I can copy as much as I want but I am charged a small fee for the cost of the materials to do so that is then distrubuted to artists to offset any loss is government interference? You'd rather have doors kicked in, servers confiscated, torrent sites sued and Grandma and Grandpa worried about their internet use than the peace of mind of 59 cents a blank CD? Well, you can have it. Thanks.
I guess no one around here has a sense of humor. Instead of burning CDs on laptops in front of Congress, maybe people should just burn them the old way... gas and fire. :P
Perhaps a better word would be "neo-racism" or "defacto-racism". Instead of saying "no blacks can live in this neighborhood" communities are saying "no poor people may live in this neighborhood" when a vast disproportionate number of poor people are black.
An interesting side effect of this is the rise of the idea of "white trash" - or poor white people who are treated as badly as poor blacks.
Oh wait, that's Canada I'm talking about...
Dude, the War of 1812 ended almost 200 years ago. Get the fuck over it already.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
Seriously, getting the levy back to compensate the music industry is utterly stupid now that everyone has portable music players. What are disks (CDs are dead...or will soon be) used for nowaday if not for legit file backup purposes? It's been ages since I've had a mp3 on a CD...
I haven't found a single comment pointing out one of the best things that comes from our CD levy: the CRIAA has tried numerous times (and failed) to bring US style RIAA lawsuits against the people of the country. What is the justification for not allowing the lawsuits? The CRIAA is already reimbursed for any alleged piracy through this levy and as such they aren't entitled to any more money.
I find it hipocritical (in a general sense) that the slashdot commetns revolving around the RIAA suing grandmothers and small children ranges from disgust to condemnation; yet most of the comments on the Canadian system to avoid such lawsuits are calling it unnecessary.
The biggest change I would like to see is the inclusion of software vendors into the group of people that benefit from this.
Oh, a lesson in history from Mr. I'm my own grandpa.
an extra few cents is hardly worth bitchen about.. i mean honestly how many CD's do you purchase. im sure i got my moneys worth just copying a couple things for my sister. not to mention all the great canadian music on cbc's pod cast.
Go find your MP:
http://canada.gc.ca/directories/direct_e.html
Bitch them out.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
What happened?
/. is getting a tad too arcane for my tastes...!
You mean they NEVER found any traces of taxable CDs after they crashed into the Pentagon?
And is it true the remnants of that 1947 crash into the Empire State building survived only because they were vilyl and were travelling at 33 rpm?
Not to mention all the'se pe'sky apo'strophic punctuation mark's that alway's litter the s'creen!
Just call me: Fish 'n' chip's.
.
- aqk
F U
So, what do you think happened? Someone faked videos of two planes crashing into the WTC, then set off some explosives in the building to demolish it? If so, why?
Copy all the CDs you want, legally!
17 USC, Chapter 10, Subchapter A, Section 1008 specifically states:
No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.
Section 1001 defines a "digital audio recording medium" to be:
any material object in a form commonly distributed for use by individuals, that is primarily marketed or most commonly used by consumers for the purpose of making digital audio copied recordings by use of a digital audio recording device.
In more common language, this refers to audio/music CD-R discs, which are made to work in digital audio recorders. These discs are different from the more common data CD-Rs, in that they contain special digital markings (standard data CD-Rs won't work in digital audio recorders). In addition, by law a royalty has been paid on this blank media. These royalty payments are in turn distributed to copyright holders (see Section 1006 of the law cited above). They usually cost slightly more than data CD-R discs, but they can be found for less than $0.50 each.
So go ahead, make copies onto music/audio CD-R discs, even give copies to your friends. You can do so legally and without any moral problems - you've paid for the right to do so. (And the RIAA fought for this law. Thanks, RIAA!)
Note, too the "based on the...use" clause, which IMHO also legitimizes sharing/downloading MP3 or other audio files, provided you make use of an audio CD-R by burning those files onto it or sharing those files off of it.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
But that is still not racism! One must not have equality of outcome to avoide being racist. That would be classism..
Assumed Guild said, " Now, to touch on race again, a larger percentation of the black population in the US is porr than in the white population. Therefore, a black person is more likely to spend time in jail than a white man. Furthermore, a man is more likely to spend time in jail if his father has spent significant time in jail."
The fact is that there are more poor whites than poor blacks in raw numbers. If money was a factor, then there would be more whites in jail. As it stands, as a percentage of the population, blacks are 9 times more likely to commit a crime than whites.
There are mistakes made in the judicial system, it's true, but more often than not, the juries that convict blacks are more than half black themselves, so if the problem is prejudice, then who is it that is prejudiced?
In other western countries, the blacks DO NOT HAVE the same issues, and are not more likely to commit crimes. It is therefore not a racial thing, but a social one. To make this more topical, blacks are much less likely to burn illegal tunes onto a CD than whites.
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
As a music creator you should be able to sign up for a cut of the profits.
No sig today...
Tell that to the Toronto shopkeeper who got jailed after shooting at three armed thieves, one of whom died by bleeding to death in an ally.
You could've hired me.
You wouldn't think to shoot back?
Of course not! After all, I'd get slapped with a murder charge! The fact that you'd be dead wouldn't matter.
All I can say, is "stoopid dumbfuck canuck".
You could've hired me.