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Windows Drivers for Mac Rolling Out
OSXpert writes "Sure, we all know that Windows can now run on intel Apple Computers. Alas, the solution does not include drivers, and until now Mac users could still only hope to be able to use every application available to their Windows counterparts. However, with drivers now working 100% on the Mac Mini and drivers for the MacBook Pro only lacking video (which, by the looks of the 2nd link is only days away), Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
Im sure the mac fan boys are happy
Isn't this a step in the wrong direction? If you've already got Mac hardware, then you're trying to get away from Microsoft. Why use M$ software on more expensive Mac hardware? Why use M$ software at all?
And this is a good thing?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
But can it run.... never mind.
The development community is fantastic. I have no urge to buy a Mac at the moment, but I may reconsider. Most companies would stumble when making a major platform jump, but Apple are going strong.
Yes, but will it play Solitaire, man!?
First ever first post!
We've figured out how to put an inferior OS on more expensive hardware! That way, we can have both the frustrations of Windows and pay out of the ass for Mac. Everybody wins!
Next, how to mod your Porsche into a Toyota Camry.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
New Mac BookPro: $1999
2 days of leave: free
Ticking off the Mac Fanboys: priceless
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
i'm not really interested in running windows per-se... but wouldn't it be great to run windows apps within osx, much like running them in WINE under linux? then I could skim the cream from the windows world and leave the swill behind!
I could see running a Mac OS on a cheap PC box, but why should I run Mr. Gate's Fine Software on my pricey Mac box?
For Linux partisans, doesn't the latest Mac OS offering give them their Unix scionfix?
if windows run on Mac, Viruses will affect Mac.
Why would you want to buy a mac to run windows on it?
Besides, last time I checked windows was more of a problem than a solution.
TUAW
Common sense is not so common
...you're part of the Windows Problem, I guess.
And I know this thread will just consist of - "why would you want to do that?" "Whats the point, when your running OS X? It's so much better..."
Shut up. This is a good thing. Many people need to use Windows for work, and this lets do that. Whilst giving them the good stuff at home. Many people like to play computer games that aren't photshop.
Don't be stupid. Please.
Please!
http://skeptobot.blogspot.com/ - A site for the Renaissance man and woman
You can use Mac OS X with proper drivers (i.e. written by Apple, as they intended) and now (if you want to) you can use any 'Windows Only' applications that may be foisted upon you by, say, your job. Come on, people, it's not rocket science. Plus, when Linux is fully up, you'll have a completely triple-boot machine. All of which makes it even harder for the beancounters in your enterprise job(tm) to say "No, you can't have one of those because it can't run Approved Software(tm)".
Asking "Why would you?" is aking to shoving your head in the sand and asking "Why would you run a Mac?" Sure, go ahead and limit your choices. I'll be taking one from *every* column, thanks.
A hero is someone who knows when to run away. I am a hero. -Trent the Uncatchable
I see this comment on every thread dealing with this. Here are the answers:
1)Why not? It's geeky, it's fun, it's what being a nerd is all about.
2)Games. What if you want to be productive on OSX but want to reboot to play some win-only games every so often
3)tax software. This is a big one for this, why bother buying a win machine for something you do once a year when you can just install win on your nice mac.
4)Some people honestly like apple hardware but need to run windows. Try finding a non-apple box with as small a desk footprint as a mac mini.
5)Along the same lines, people who do all their work on laptops and dont want to carry 2 laptops around can now just carry a macbook pro.
6)Quick compatability checks for software. Yes, I realize that for major cross platform dev you might want 2 boxes, but for quick checks (see the laptop comment too) this is invaluable.
There are more of course, thats off the top of my coffee-depirved head right now.
~Anubis
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
It is a futile effort. Why not install an Apple like multimedia linux OS, such as Tomahawk desktop. There is a good article to learn more about it.
Lots of people griping about the use of it, but who cares about that? It's like asking about why you'd dual boot Linux and Windows.
I like the idea - the hardware is nice, I like the OS, but I'm not 100% certain that the programs I use some of the time has been ported to OS X or if it has a usable counterpart on OS X. Lack of something like WINE makes this a viable option, should I choose to get a Mac (looking dreamily at the MacBook Pro).
I'd get nice hardware, an excelent OS and the option of still using the old and busted OS and irreplacable programs if I need them. Best of all parts I think.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Some people prefer how Mac hardware looks. There's also a "cool" or "wtf" factor involved; I'd imagine you could get some really interesting reactions from people.
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
My daughter will be entering Univ. of Cincinnati's DAAP (Design, Art, Architecture & Planning) school next fall. The college uses almost all Macs EXCEPT for the Industrial Design program, which requires a PC running Windows. She much prefers a Mac, and was probably going to buy a Mac for her own use and a PC for any school requirements. However now she could just get an Intel MacBook and a copy of XP.
OK, I know this is an academic exercise - but why? Personally, I would rather see someone find a way to run Mac OS on cheap PC hardware, not the other way around.
For the last time. Some people are tied to the Windows platform because of work/business-needs and therefore, until now, the Mac has not been an option for their home computer, laptop, whatever. Now that they can buy one piece of hardware that can run both Windows and MacOS, they have the option to buy a Mac for fun, personal use, OS-preference, Mac-fanboyism, etc, but still use that machine for those work-related purposes where using Windows may not be optional. Get it? People who may not have been able to switch before now have a viable option to get the best of both worlds without any sacrifice.
I would think that application developers would benefit from having a single, dual-boot system to develop in two flavors. Maybe this will benefit the Mac community by making it easier for resource-strapped app innovators to buy a macintel box that lets them server OSX and Windows app consumer markets.
Moderation in All Things... Especially Moderation - gurutc
"Do you know how the orcs came to be? They were elves once." :)
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
"...Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
You really do have a very different view of 'complete', 'working' & 'solution' from most people I know.
everyday...Redefine a conscious 5tand The above i5 far FUCKING USELESS and some of the
Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution.
Cool! Now maybe they can sell it to Microsoft to get their Windows solution to work too?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
So far MAC users were proud of their closed door OS which runs on specific hardware, is bullet proof and user friendly.. Why now MAC user want to even try to run windows on their highly expensive hardware? What happend once average MAC user gets addicted to supereasy but insecure windows? Will MAC loose or increase their marketshare? Interesting question
Why not run a good O/S like centos or Open BSD on you new iNTEL MAC.
Support Open BSD They need your help!!!
Keep diversity and chioce alive.
heh, I don't know if I'm worng or what, but I know not of a PC as elegantly designed as a Mac... so I guess that's something of a factor. You know it's nice to have a killer looking machine with whatever you're used to running on it.
If Microsoft has any sense, they'll make damn sure that Vista supports all of the hardware that Apple uses. Any additional retail Windows sales they might get from this have got to be good (because how many people buy Windows off the shelf nowadays?) - and isn't 5% of the market a lot to ignore?
They'll never do a "Windows for Apple" - it'd be too easy for Apple to pull the rug from under them - but I wouldn't be surprised if Vista quietly gains support for the non-working components and 32bit EFI, and that this quickly becomes the worst kept secret in computing...
Everyone, please ... repeat after me:
Options are never bad!
one more time...
Options are never bad
Just like I know I shouldn't put regular gas in a porche... I want the thing to run on it in case of an emergency.
(which, by the looks of the 2nd link is only days away). Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
Just what OS X users always wanted...
"Try finding a non-apple box with as small a desk footprint as a mac mini."
l
:)
:)
Okay: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8464432110.htm
Sure, it's a blatant rip-off of the Mac Mini design, but you did ask.
Sure, it's got IBM-PC insides, not Mac insides, but that's what you asked for.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
To prove that you can. A lot of Slashdot is about that. "Because you can" answers a lot of Slashdot questions. Why modify your case to look like a Borg cube? Why port Linux to your PDA?
Hacking is about curiosity, first and foremost. And there was a question out there...how much like a PC are the new x86 Macs? And running Windows on it answers the question with authority.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Great! Now we just need the final piece of the puzzle: something that will let me run that same installation of Windows as an OS X application, the same way OS X runs OS 9 on PPC Macs.
Because I need to run Windows apps occasionally during the day, but having to boot back and forth to do it would seriously suck.
I'm sure someone's working on it, and that someone is going to take a lot of sales from any future version of VirtualPC that will run on the MacIntels. (And that'll be what you deserve for dragging your feet, Microsoft.)
~Philly
So I'm sitting here looking at my StinkPad, and I'm thinking, what in the fuck, there's five fucking buttons on this thing. FIVE FUCKING BUTTONS! I ain't got the fucking time to deal with five fucking buttons. And on top of that there's both a scrollypad and a fuckin clit! Like I don't got better things to deal with this any of this shit. All those Chinese fuckos at IBM really need to get with Steve Jobs and get on the motherfucking plan. ONE FUCKING BUTTON. A BIG one! So, $2500 for a Windows laptop with ONE BIG FUCKING BUTTON? FUCK YEA! Fuckin sign me up! For the all the fucking time I spend remembering what fucking button and clit and shit to push, it's worth at least 10 fucking grand.
but what we really need is a way to launch windows programs from within OSX, not another OS running on the hardware. I anxiously await a virtual PC for Intel, it should be able to run much better as it doesn't have to emulate the processor merely the OS....
First, dual boot is a myth, it is damn annoying and so counterproductive. Most people dont realise that until they actually experiment it, it's hype now, but all Linux users know it's a pain, and I know from experience that a dual boot Windows/Linux means one thing... Windows 90% of the time. Vmware and others solutions are the way to go for people who need Windows professionaly for a given application, I can't wait for a Mac OS X version. Second, some people try to makes us believe that companies will buy Apple PC to their employees now that they can run Windows, yeah right, serious manager will buy more expensive hardware, plus a Windows licence, so that their employees can have an Apple design and the joy of using Mac OS X out of the office... Lastly, Gamers, Well Windows users will probably not switch to Apple hardware to play, it's more expensive, and you'll get a better gaming PC for the price, hardcore gamers don't really care for Apple design, last time I checked it was more neon and see through glass panel...Seriously, You already have to be freaking rich to play seriously on laptop, do you think people will pay even more for an Apple on the back screen... I see this all thing as one big geek experiment, because it is what it is, mostly geek will do it, just because it is fun, but Apple geek will at the end stay under OS X, and Windows geek will soon realise they over paid their Windows laptop...
Software written for Windows isn't usually anything a Mac user would want to use, anyway. Windows software is software aimed at the fratboy demographic, essentially, and Macs have never been for fratboys. The best applications in arts, design, music, and other creative pursuits always come out for Macs first, and Windows later, if ever.
For someone like me who uses 75% mac and have to do a few PC things for work this is great. I travel a lot and I am about to go on my first roadshow in a week where I wont have to lug around 2 computers as I have been for the past 3 years. I have tried Virtual PC, Qemu and even remote desktop and nothing was ever a complete solution, this is. So all those asking why, thats why!
It's a shame if you don't get modded up. Damn funny stuff.
"Your ancient kin are troubling us once again..."
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
oops!
This is nice for them, but I really want to know how long it will be before we have the wine-equivalent of OSX... I need to be able to run Safari on my slackware laptop, so that I can test my website.
When will VMWare support the new Intel Macs? Dual booting gets old very fast. I need a few Windows apps but now I use VMWare to run them, which works great. It would be awesome if I could also do that on my Macs instad of just my Linux machines.
BTW, I'm primarily a Linux user, but I prefer Macs for laptops, sound editing, and graphic work.
"It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
Doesn't look like all of these drivers are working from here.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
and it's only a Pentium M rather than the Core Duo available in the Mini.
I'm getting so tired of this argument and I'm not sure why it's been modded funny. There are plenty of reasons putting windows on your mac is worthwhile. For work purposes you may want have to run some windows only applications which won't work under virtualization. For play you may want to boot up some games that are windows only. In academic settings you can buy one machine and tripple boot it (Windows/OSX/Linux). I know my school a lot of the labs already dual boot windows and linux.
...about Macs is when they offer opinions on the platform while referring to the company that produces them as "Mac" (which you didn't do) or to the computer itself as a "MAC".
The company is "Apple". The machine is a "Mac". It is an abbreviation of "Macintosh", not an acronym.
Yeah, that's right. Seriously. You'd think that after getting their questions answered, those guys would just know that there are indeed good reasons to run Windows on a Mac. It seems that there's just an endless supply of people who are unwilling to listen to good reason.
Anyway, having said that, let me say this one last time:
Some.
People.
NEED.
Windows.
Nobody's said that this is being done because Mac OS is inferior or anything of the sort. The only big reason is because there are people who are stuck on Windows boxes for work or other mission-critical applications that they simply cannot live without. Before you, for the so-manyth time, complain that this is nonsense and that people should just use Mac OS if the possibility exists, consider the fact that not everybody is as carefree as you and that there could be very good reasons that simply don't apply to you.
qemu has been ported to the Mactels, as is WinTel from openosx.com.
Of course, there's always Darwine as well.
I really wish GNU/Linux could do the same , its a question of hardware driver developper who know the platform Both hardware and software , I guess.
I am a REAL American from Canada , not a wanna-be from the country , self called "last remaining superpower" "of America
Nope...
get back to me when I can on a MacBook Pro:
capture video over fire window into Sony Vegas
output hardware accelerated graphics through the DVI second monitor output to a HD projector
play audio through the speakers
use one partition to dual boot mac os x and windows xp
sleep, reboot and restart all work without hanging the system
still got a long way to go...
Last I checked the hardware was exactly the same as Windows typically runs on...
Which is typical Apple. They scream about not needing stuff like PMT, Protected Memory, SMP support, PCI, AGP, USB, and on and on... not to mention how much better PPC was than x86.
Well we all know how that turned out...
Perfect reference.
The move to Intel processors and Windows OS only shows that Apple is finally willing to do what it takes to gain a really big slice of the market. They tried to tie the traditional PowerPC mac to the success of the iPod but even this move could not break the 5% market share barrier. They learned the lesson from marketing the iPod. Give people what they want, even if technologically it sucks (not the the iPod does), and they will love you for that.
Well, if windows sucks so much, and Microsoft is so evil...
Why the heck are all you geeks rushing to run Windows?
I'd love to see a side by side comparison with a windows-only laptop. I'm afraid though, that it'll be slightly disappointing. I'm expecting similar behavior.
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
So, what does this mean for the potential of a Mac Mini running Windows XP Media Center Edition? will the remote work?
I'd like a mini as a media center, but so far it looks like Front Row can only play codecs that can be hosted by Quicktime, which AFAIK excludes XVid and friends... right?
So, you're saying that people's offices are going to buy them expensive Macs and install Windows on them, so that when they take their laptops home they can use OSX?
Or are you saying people are going to bring their home PCs into work and plug them into the corperate net without the office caring about it?
Your argument makes no sense whatsoever. If the computer was bought by the offfice for office work, they aren't going to buy you a MAc unless you can do your work on a Mac. If it is your home PC/laptop you can't use it at the office anyway, at least not at any office with a decent security policy.
Now I can replace my crappy windows box with a Mini. I'm one of those who need to test and run the occasional windows app. Virtual PC, BOCHS and other solutions have not worked for me so I keep an XP box in the closet and use it from the Mac through VNC.
Apple will make money off this as I plan to buy a second Mac just for XP and Linux. Yes, its more expensive but the Minis are so cute. No more big, ugly, noisy boxes.
Software written for Windows isn't usually anything a Mac user would want to use, anyway. Windows software is software aimed at the fratboy demographic, essentially, and Macs have never been for fratboys. The best applications in arts, design, music, and other creative pursuits always come out for Macs first, and Windows later, if ever.
That analogy is so ludicrous that you must be trolling. But to roll with it just for fun, the Mac demographic is the pampered rich-kid who has everything done for them because they can pay for it. This demographic actually intersects with the fratboy demographic, because many fratboys (and sorority girls) are spoiled rich kids. Therefore, Macs also are aimed at the rich fratboy demographic. The core of the Mac demographic is yuppies who also will probably have children who are fratboys.
Linux is aimed at the engineering demographic, the "geek" crowd, and also the hippie-types. Macs are getting a piece of the engineering/geek demographic, but only with the creation of OS X has this been true. It still doesn't touch the hippie demographics, nor does it touch poor geeks, geeks with hippie values, or the "true" geeks.
Windows is aimed at the average joe who is too stupid and too poor to choose otherwise even though there are better choices. It is also aimed at the business/sales type and the guy with an MBA degree (granted some of those are fratboys). It is also aimed at PC gamers, those stupid annoying 14-year-old boys that populate most internet forums.
Disclaimer: I am mostly a Linux user who uses Windows and OS X occasionally.
#!/
..the GP specifically said that it was *THE OFFICE* buying the PC.
Why would your employer pony up for an expensive Mac just so you can dual boot to get your OSX joyride when you take it home? They don't give a crap about that. They are buying the PC for you to do work on, if that work requires Windows, then they'll get you a Windows PC. End Of Story.
welp, i've got karma to burn..
This is like putting a 4 cylinder Kia engine in your brand new Ferrari, just because you can. Putting XP on anything apple is a complete waste of time, and, I can't wait until Apple cracks down on this garbage, if they even decide to put forth the effort.
Come on - you pay a premium price for a reason. Not because of the hardware, but what powers it. Take a gander at their system specs and try to build your own x86 box, you will do it cheaper, EVERY SINGLE TIME.
Please, stop perpetuating this crap on Slashdot. It's completely worthless, and it just reeks of this immature 'because we can' attitude.
DRIVERS? even for iSight under Windows, to use with Skype (iChat3 doesn't work because of stupid Comcast QoS issues)?
This is a honest question: how is it possible that Windows drivers are written in a couple of days while drivers for Linux get written sometimes in a year or so (or never - as in ATI 3d drivers)? Isn't hardware proprietary in both circumstances? I'm jealous...
There are lots of third party codecs available for most other file formats. For xvid, try http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17151 . WMV? Flip4Mac (which you can even get straight from microsoft now).
Once again, slashdot has not taken a look at what's really going on. If you want to know the actual status of driver, look at wiki.onmac.net or forums.onmac.net
As another reply to your post stated there is a project called "Q" that is a QEMU front end for OS X. I tried installing XP on it the other day and unfortunately it failed halfway through install. At least it was the second phase of install though (when it is registering COM components and such).
However, I did have success building WINE. I did not, however, use Darwine but instead grabbed normal Wine from CVS then applied a patch to context_i386.c to add support for Darwin.
Solitaire works. Minesweeper works. Pinball almost works (too slow to play). However, winedbg did not work and attempting to install IE didn't work either. But hey, it was worth a shot. I'm sure with a bit more work, winedbg could be made to work again and for all I know that work could already be done in the Darwine CVS.
Considering the fact that Windows defenders always point to the wide array of hardware that Windows has to run on vs. the controlled architecture of an Apple, this is a chance for Windows to prove how stable it can be.
This is not a joke. Now there is a solid user base comprised of known machines. The drivers, etc. can be optimized to that.
I personally like Windows XP, never got into Macs, but this could be an excellent solution (once its hardened a bit) for a stable machine. Just a thought.
The people dual booting OS X and Windows could end up with more stable windows installations than a Dell, and certainly more stable than a homebrew machine.
Read the great-grandparent post again. The GGP just asked for a non-Apple box with a footprint like the Mac Mini, not one that's functionally identical.
;-)
But to address your points:
"only a Pentium M rather than the Core Duo available in the Mini"
CPU's evolve constantly. I'm sure the PC clones of the Mac Mini will evolve, too.
"it's missing 2 USB ports"
Is is? Where? Does the Mac Mini have USB ports on the side? Seriously, I see two USB ports on the rear of both.
"bluetooth"
I'll have to take your word for it. I can see where that would be a nice thing to have, especially as the small form factor will always mean fewer ports to plug wires into.
The Mac Mini also has a POTS modem, which the AOpen box does not.
On the other hand, the AOpen box has S-video out, audio line in, and some mystery port I can't identify. Plus a power button.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I mean, the Mac is a PC with EFI. The hardware in it is PC hardware. I am sure it is slightly more complicated then that, considering that Mac's typically take PC components like video cards and slightly alter the firmware or BIOS on them in order to make them "Mac" hardware (and charge 50% more for the same equivalent PC card), but again, how hard is it to get Windows to run on a PC?
Come one, this isn't news. Mac's are now 98% PC's, getting Windows to run on them is trivial considering Windows is an OS designed to run on millions of configurations of PC's as opposed to the 3 Macintel models Apple offer. Once EFI support is built into Vista, it will become even more trivial to run Windows on a "Mac".
Apple lost, period. They are a PC clone with a Unix based OS, everything Apple despised in the past is now their flagship product! Apple's new motto "Think Same!" or "If you can't beat em, join em!"
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Good deal! There are thousands and thousands of software products that are only available on Windows, and now I can run them on my Mac!
For instance, Norton AntiVirus for Windows, Adware Destroyer Plus, and so many other titles only work well under Windows.
would someone like to list some things that you cant do on a mac, but can on windows? ( other than playing games)?? i havent ran into any issues.
This is a honest question (that I previously asked in a wrong way): how is it possible that Windows drivers for Mac are written in a couple of days while open drivers for Linux get written sometimes in a year or so? Isn't hardware proprietary in both circumstances? I'm jealous...
while you're porting sub-par operating systems to above-par hardware, why stop with a dead-end version of windows?
OS/2 is still out there, and it's not a moving target.
brilliant!
I kinda am skeptical of the mac-mini video, as the GMA950 shouldn't be so smooth on HL2.
WTF ?!
...
No, wait... WTF !?
I guess Mac users must have been really unhappy and suicidal up to now that they couldn't use "every application available to their Windows counterparts"
Like Windows would be the definitive solution for everyone's sw/app needs on this planet.
Never mind.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Unless official sides officially support Windows for Mac this will stay a niche product with variants for installation but the same instability and insecurity as with component x86 systems. OS X is to much of a good consitent appliance for Windows to break serious ground here.
It's the integration of hardware and software what Mac is about.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
How would a mac mini work for playing games using windows? I need a new graphics card but Mac mini isn't much more expensive, so if they play games well I might look at getting one and dual booting.
I like muppets.
Is this possible to do? Is someone trying to do it? Because
if someone managed it it would be far better than windows
on a mac (cheaper hardware).
I think it's funny that we've got so many "what's the use? it's pointless!" posts, but when someone links a story of Linux running on a microwave people think it's the hottest thing ever.
Why? Because I'd like to use a Mac but I don't want to purchase a whole new software library all at once. This would let me kind of ease into it.
Donating $200,000 to running Linux on an unmodified Xbox? There's a real reason to ask 'why?'.
How are you supposed to use Windows on a MacBook when there's only 1 mouse button?
I wish Steve Jobs would get his head out of his ass about the 1 mouse button thing. The lack of a second mouse button is now the only thing stopping me from buying a MacBook. Yes, I know that you can just hook up a USB mouse, but that only works when using the laptop in a desktop situation.
As for the Mighty Mouse, that is a 1 1/2-button mouse. You can't click both the left and right buttons at the same time, making it useless for playing World of Warcraft.
Melissa
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
... then who cares how much the gas costs?
Do you really think that someone who can afford to buy an expensive sports car of that sort really gives a damn about fuel economy?
If you don't think it's funny you haven't seen the latest Volkswagen commercials. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-311188162 9525530694
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4930123970 122097095
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-453507180 6704857494
The last one is my favorite.
"Working Windows solution?!" What problem does this "solution" solve? The lack of virii & spyware on the Mac hardware platform?
This is good news for Mac users as it expands the alternate product reach. The downside I see is the whole Windows OS on your mac...this opens you up to all the pitfalls of Windows and for the majority of Mac users (Like me!) who enjoy avoiding complexity this solution isn't ideal. Not to mention the fact that most of the time I only need a few apps for work and would really rather not hassle with dual boots, OS patches, security issues, drivers etc. etc. A few weeks a ago I found an alternative when I got my new proBook and had no more Virtual PC. The Mac store actually recommended a service called Northstar (http://www.northstaraccess.net./ This lets me publish applications and subscribe to applications via their network on demand. Cheap and I don't buy or install windows junk. I've been running windows apps in a native environment without infesting my nice new Mac. Plus I just take what I want, when I want and they deal with all the hassles. My guess is that solutions like this will have more impact with the mac community and be much less frustrating/risky than dual boot. Neat concept though...just don't want to junk up my mac for the sake of a few required and non-ported apps.
All the over confident mac users not using any anti-virus software, sooo sure that they are immune to any viruses just because they use a mac.... I cant wait till they all get infected
...and just how long have you been building your own PCs? Every machine I've built was stable, it was the OS that was not. I've been doing this since the 8088 Intel processor came out.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Optical mice can be used on any non-shiny surface anywhere, in any orientation. I use my leg as a mousing surface all the time when I don't have a desk to work on, and unless you have a lot of vinyl or pleather pants in your wardrobe, you can too.
Failing that, I'm sure there's a Windows utility out there that lets you remap a key you don't use often as a right-click modifier or just plain right-click. Go find it, and quit your damned bitching about every little thing.
I know this may be considered silly, but: I don't care to run XP. I run Windows 2000, because I own legal copies, because the OS is rock solid, because it doesn't seem to vacuum up the viruses and spyware that XP does, it doesn't spy on my system and phone home to Redmond (oh, XP will, just give it time), and finally, 2000 doesn't shut itself off I change too many hardware components, and require me to beg Redmond to turn it back on. It just works. And I really don't care about games.
Is this massive knowledge base being built for installing XP applicable or adaptable to installing 2000 on the Mac? Drivers, yup. That would be a problem. But generally?
According to Microsoft
So as of now it is a wait and see, but I bet I know what Microsoft is up to. I bet they will drop their apple native line apps and just have people buy Virutal PC 8 and buy a windows version. Hey if it works it works...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
those are all fully licensed copies of windows right?
why? he asks, into the screaming wind...
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
This won't provide a simple or cheap way to run XP. You'll have to reinstall your system as dual boot and buy an XP license. Not something many people would do in order to play a game.
the devs could program in DX, where their skill set lies, and the translation layer can deal with the OS issues.
0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
I don't know about dreamweaver in particular, but I can move about to dropdowns every where else... whether or not a control is open to system events, is up to the application developer, not the OS.
It's not Apples fault that Macromedia left a control out of the tab index. but with the accessibility options turned on, nearly every control should be available to keyboard input.
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
there are three p's in 'trippple'. you're thinking of 'doubble'.
thanks
First off, this is a dedicated effort, akin to getting linux on your toaster. But second, there indeed is a niche group of mac users who like computers in general so will most likely try this. Third, there is also a niche group that actually needs windows from time to time and is savvy enough to maintain a windows machine on generic hardware for that, so why not a dual install on their mac. So hurray!
I think, therefore I am...I think.
"Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
Cool. Uh... so... why do I want that?
imagine a beowulf cluster of these guys...
Actually, it is _not_ a regular retail version. Apple only sells upgrades. Yes, you can blow away your Mac's HD and install from scratch from the box, but the intention is that it is an upgrade to a previously installed version of MacOS.
See: http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/
Why would I need to buy tax software, when I can do it online at TurboTax.com, hrblock.com, and a multitude of others? For Americans, what need is there to use dedicated tax software?
;)). Some of them were some of the best dynamic web applications I'd seen in a LONG time, too.
For Non-Americans, I don't know if there are web-based tax tools... but I imagine there are, given the successes we have seen here in the states.
A web-based application is quite often platform-agnostic (unless they are retarded and require IE
>But can it run....
>AmigaOS 4 ?!!
Hyperion would not allow the AmigaOS to run on such easily available hardware. The only candidates are unavailable (AmigaOne, where are you?) or vapourware (Amy05? Show us something already!).
Do the Intel Macs have the virtualization hardware needed to run Xen properly?
I'm not going to say silly things like, "Don't put the inferior OS on my pristine Mac." One of the main reasons holding a lot of people back from a Mac has been that one holdout, the business that must have this or that application. Now, you can have your cake and eat it too! The original guiding principle of the Mac was the old '60s slogan, power to the people. If it means more ability to do what you need or want to do, I'm all for it. One thing is, if you dual boot on a Mac, there's a limited number of drivers the hacking community will have to get you. A new model comes out with a new ATI card, and I guess it'll be a while before the proper driver shows up. But compare that to the Windows, heterogenous platform. If Apple were to sell its OS to the Dell crowd, think of the almost limitless number of drivers you'd have to develop. It'll be much easier to run a Mac dual boot than the reverse. I'd prefer to have the ability to run a WINE variant, so you wouldn't have to install the OS. I don't know if that will ever be possible. Or if MS ever gets off their asses, it would be fine to have a Virtual PC 8.0 for Intel Macs -- getting real speed without having to leave OS X, that would be ideal. But until then, this is just fine. And if some hideous people PREFER XP, it doesn't bother me if they install XP on their Macs alone. After all, 80% of Apple's profits are from hardware.
All of which makes it even harder for the beancounters in your enterprise job(tm) to say "No, you can't have one of those because it can't run Approved Software(tm)".
Yeah, doood! 'Way to stick it to "The Man"!
realise you were posting on /. ? Peopl here, myself included, build entire new rigs to play games.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Students can usually get MS software for a large discount.
Wink wink.
I mean with you student ID at the campus store...
sigh....
i guess roughly 0% of all the people having posted here have more than just one computer.
seriously, i dont give a rats ass if i could install windos xp or whatever crap on a mac.
my macs either run osx or linux, or both, or netbsd.
my pcs run either freebsd, linux, or any sort of game-playing dos98 or similar and most of the it is some sort of unix running on it.
btw: playing games on a laptop sucks anyway.
t
I can see your point, but what happens when a given software company is looking at what platforms to write their software for, and sees a Mac user can easily boot / run Windows? Why are they going to pay a bunch of money for Mac developers when they know you'll just dual boot your Mac to run the Windows version?
At that point, why write OS X apps at all? Because it runs better or it has transparent windows? (sarcasm)Yeah, I'm sure software companies are going to fork over lots of money just to maintain an OS X codebase just for that...(/sarcasm) I would think many apps that might have been ported to the Mac or are currently maintained will dry up. This is good for the Mac user in the short term but ultimately hurt Apple in the long run.
d-oh!
-- Boycott Shell
Your post contains two myths:
1. Being able to run Windows on a Mac means fewer and fewer ports of Windows software.
Being able to hack your Mac to run Windows does not reduce demand for Mac ports. Everyone who installs Windows on a Mac just to play a game or run some program, would much rather buy the game or program for the Mac, if given the choice. What it does do is increase (slightly) the demand for the Windows version.
Absolutely nobody would prefer to hack their Mac to run Windows, then reboot into Windows just to play a game, over doing so natively on OS X.
You mention Linux, but that's a faulty comparison. The main reasons for fewer Linux ports of Windows software is that Linux is harder to support commercially. Yes, it can be, and has been, done, but it's still significantly harder.
2. Voting with your wallet.
This sounds nice in theory, but does not work in practice. The first problem is the comparison to democracy. In ideal democracy, each person gets an equal vote, and those votes don't cost you money or opportunity. In "voting with your wallet", those with more money have more votes.
The second problem is that if you "vote for the Mac" by not buying Counter-Strike 2 to run on Windows on your Mac, then you have to do without Counter-Strike 2. The only way "voting with your wallet" counts is when you have a choice. If you have the choice between buying CS 2 for Mac or Win, then when you buy the Mac version, you are voting for the Mac version. How can you vote for the Mac version if it's not on the metaphorical ballot?
The best compromise between "voting with your wallet" and reality would be to buy the Windows game only if you really want it, and to make sure you contact the developer asking for a Mac version. If they see the demand is high enough, they may do one of the following: port the game to the Mac; contract out porting of the game to another company; (or at the very least) consider strongly making their next game for Windows and Mac.
*snrk*
Electronic Fuel Injection? What?
ALL HAIL THE BEAST THAT ASCENDETH FROM THE PIT WITH HIS CUTE WIDDLE NOSE =^o.o^=
for years 'you' have been telling 'me' that my hardware was too expensive and proprietary , now 'you' are killing each other trying to get an outdated OS to run on it? FFS!
You obviously are not familiar with the concept of "truthiness".
Most people who dual-boot are doing so between linux and windows so that they can play windows games.
Me, I have music (that I write and record, not mp3s) software and files on my windows PC that I can't walk away from, but I'm trying to do all my new work on a Mac. Now I can actually pick up a mac mini and dual-boot OSX and windows for all my music stuff.
This also means I can take my old PC and turn it into a dedicated linux box, since it was the need to access my windows-based music that prevented it in the past.
I am a happy clam.
. . . as opposed to PC users, who clearly don't.
http://outcampaign.org/
But why would mac users want to run windows on their machines? I prefer windows, pro MS, whatever tag you want to give me, but seriously, don't apple users think osX (or whichever version they run) is much better than (or perfect compared to) windows XP?
Someone poke me with a stick when there is a hardware mod to cut the mouse button in to two sides.
So lets see here, its Slashot...oooooh shiny...uh what was I doing? Oh yeah lets postpostpost about the Intel Macs. Post the story first and read the articles linked in the story later....if ever.
Seriously this story is stupid.
1. NO ONE HAS A WORKING ACCELERATED VIDEO DRIVER WORKING ON XP UNDER MAC
2. The person who submitted this story THINKS that their MIGHT be a driver because they saw those two videos on YouTube of all places of someone with a Mac Mini that showed Half-Life 2 running as well as on a MacBook Pro.
3. If you read the forums on onmac.net and osx86project NO ONE has working accelerated video.
4. Blanka and narf are NOT working on the video drivers
5. No pooftas!
6. See #1. Repeat.
And thus, the vulnerabilities start to arise on OS X.
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Mac laptops have had W-enhanced track pads since 2002. This means they support the use of two fingers on the track pad.
For right-clicking functionality on a Mac laptop you would just put down two fingers and click.
For scrolling you would drag the two fingers in one of many ways, such as vertical, horizontal, or even circular.
In this way the Macs have a superior interface by having a UI that only needs 1 button, but the hardware is much more functional to support the poor programs to operate on the hardware as well. It also prevents a laptop user from accidentally performing a right click.
That's okay, because nobody uses video.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Hi all - could I make a tiny observation about all the "...but you are missing the point..." posts - its actually about choice - not whether one OS is 'better' than the other. If I choose to use Windows for something or other and MacOSX for something or other else, then why would anyone else need to take pseudo-moral umbrage? Choice is what the free market is all about. Now I have the choice, and can even have the choice as to whether I exercise my choice. So my meta-choice is what protects me from technological slavery and monopoly. I don't 'need' to or 'have' to or 'am required to' any more, I can choose to. Cheers
Now it's just a bunch of smarmy "know it alls" that don't know shit.
Where ARE the drivers you effing trolling retards?
... So I ping every machine I know of in onmac.net, go on netcraft to get statistics, read every mac forum I think of to see why the sites might have been taken off line ... And then I come to Slashdot, and I see the story. Alright, then. Now, I get it.
I'll just have to wait a day or two for the army of clickers to move on to their next preys.
I'm sorry if you feel that anyone who disagrees with you is automatically stupid, but this development is just not that important.
You are wasting you breath on this windows drone. He is only dimmly aware that other OSs even exist. What puzzles me is why more and more of his ilk are trolling this site. Guess he got tired of ZDNet.
an ill wind that blows no good
I'm pissed off at Apple for Allowing Windblows to run on Intel i Macs. Now us Mac users will be a lot more prone to catching computer viruses. I knew it would happen eventually, But I did not think that Apple would make it so easy for hackers to bypass Apples hardware. I'm pissed.
XFce
"Sure, we all know that Windows can now run on intel Apple Computers."
Yup, and we knew this from a former article. Nothing new here.
"Alas, the solution does not include drivers"
Wrong. Read wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Users/Drivers. Most drivers work perfectly. The only things missing are iSight and IR drivers. Sound drivers don't work unless you use headphones. And graphics drivers only work on the Mac mini.
"and until now Mac users could still only hope to be able to use every application available to their Windows counterparts."
Um, yea that is the hope. Duh. Obviously the things that are not working are mostly the things that rely on the unwritten drivers. Again, 5 minutes on the onmac wiki and you would see wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Users/Software, which has the current list of working software that's been tested.
"However, with drivers now working 100% on the Mac Mini and drivers for the MacBook Pro only lacking video (which, by the looks of the 2nd link is only days away), Mac users now have a complete and working Windows solution."
Um, no. Reading the forums, there are serious issues with coming out with working graphics drivers. The graphics driver forum post is like 36 pages long. At any rate, this article tells us absolutely nothing. Wouldn't it make a bit more sense to release an article AFTER the graphics drivers have been made, informing people about that fact? People don't want to know that drivers are ALMOST ready, because they've been almost ready for like a month now.