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WA Law: 5 Years in Prison for Gambling Online
tpoker writes "Online gambling has been an ongoing legal issue for the federal government, but Washington State has recently decided to take matters into their own hands. The Seattle PI reports, 'Beginning next month [June 7th], Washington residents who play poker or make other types of wagers on the Internet will be committing a Class C felony, equivalent under the law to possessing child pornography, threatening the governor or torturing an animal. Although the head of the state Gambling Commission says it is unlikely that individual online gamblers will be targeted for arrest, the new law carries stiff penalties: as much as five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.'"
Wow, you can kill someone and get less prison time... Look at the guy in the northeast who set off fireworks in doors and led to 100 people dying and he only got 4 years!
Good game, government.
The Morality Police will keep you safe, Citizen.
These self-righteous asshole politicians should be ground up and formed into dildo-sized pieces then inserted into the ass of every voter who put them in power.
Trolling is a art,
When will people learn that you can't legislate away social problems?
Pardon me, but what the hell is the point of this law if "it is unlikely that individual online gamblers will be targeted for arrest"? Selective enforcement... for the win!
Most of the gambling houses are offshore, and the state doesn't get its cut.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
So much more liberal and right-thinking than those evil Islamic theocracies of the Middle East.
Keep on shining the torch of liberty into the darkest corners of the earth, now, won't you?
possessing child pornography, threatening the governor or torturing an animal
I'm pretty sure one of those is legal. I just can't remember which.
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
Either that or it's a persuasive tribal lobbyist.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
so that's "unlikely" as in "can" and "can" as in "will"?
someone in the gambling industry messed up their bribe schedule or something?
Amazing how the government can find the time and manpower to enforce crap laws like this when tax revenues are on the line.
God bless the good ol' land of the free. This is getting way past rediculous. It seems almost that soon murdering all witnesses that saw you commit some petty crime, like gambliing, will net you less jail time than getting busted for the small thing. I mean, 5 years for sitting at a computer and clicking a mouse. Sadly, it isn't sounding so unusual, but damn, that seems VERY fucking cruel.
"To lead the people, you must walk behind them"
Does that mean you can't buy & sell stocks online?
Although the head of the state Gambling Commission says it is unlikely that individual online gamblers will be targeted for arrest, the new law carries stiff penalties: as much as five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
:P
There should be a law that you can't put a law on the books with no intention of enforcing it. The law has enough baggage from previous years when politicians would grandstand for the "hang 'em high" crowd. I suggest hanging high anyone who puts a useless law on the book.
I am confused why anyone cares about online gambling as long as everyone is of adult age, and is consenting? Perhaps someone else can explain why it's bad enough to warrent a criminal charge, let alone a felony? Is there some sort of child sacrifice, or puppy killing that goes on with online gambling that I missed?
Nothing hides evidence like a stew. -Gus Pratt
Most likely the Indian casinos are behind it. Just up the Interstate 5 corridor, from the Oregon border to Seattle, it seems like there must be a friggin casino every 20 miles or so.
I can understand being against having gambling facilities in your state, and even punishing someone for starting one - because their aim is to take the money of others.
Oh but this is not the case. There are casino's are all over the place. There's at least 4 large casino's that I know of within a short drive of Spokane and many more within the city.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
Look it, the only reason that the gov't HATES online gambling is because it doesn't get paid tribute.
The gov't hates when industries that rake in cash don't pay special tribute by donating, ect. Look at how google is now throwing out cash to avoid investigations and avoid the trouble MS had in the 90's.
Pay tribute to the masters and you can do what you want.
plus the state has a monopoly on gambling (state lotteries), they don't want that threatened. so lets throw harmless people in jail for a non-violent, victimless crime. Yes, america "home of the free" what a load of crap
The only reason States want to make it illegal is because it is potential income that the state cannot find a way to tax.
If I win $40k betting on-line and the funds are placed in an online account out of state or overseas, they can't get their grubby little hands on it.
That's the big reason of why the State/Federal Govts want to make online gambling illegal.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
This has nothing to do with "some church crap". It has everything to do with a lucrative business that isn't giving a cut to the politicians.
It dates back to around the 1930's (I think) when organized crime was rampant thanks to things like prohibition. The feds tried to crack down on illegal betting way back then by passing laws that made it illegal to place any sort of wager by phone. Betting parlors, bookies, etc. relied heavily on people placing bets via the phone. (For it to be a federal offense the call actually had to cross state lines.) Needless to say, those laws still remain on the books some 75 years later, and they're now applied to internet wagering as well...
Washington residents who play poker or make other types of wagers on the Internet will be committing a Class C felony, equivalent under the law to possessing child pornography, threatening the governor or torturing an animal.
So, if you place a bet online (e.g., engage in commerce, benefiting the economy) you are as evil as purveyors of child porn?
They should make buying lottery tickets a felony. Why the hell should the gubbament have a monopoly on gambling? Allow competition, or don't allow gambling at all.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Mandatory sunset date of one year. Not just this stupid law but also laws that your congress-vermin pass. One year, it's re-evaluated and then passed again or thrown away.
I'm actually surprised that Washington of all places was the first to pass this bill. I suspect it might be a "since we can't get a piece of that pie into our tax coffers, we're going to shut it down" type of situation.
Whats Next? Voting Democrat is now a Class "C" Felony? How about viewing online porn? Apparently calling somebody (anybody) overseas is already a federal matter (see NSA CDR gathering).......Gambling YOUR OWN MONEY online is now a class "C" felony - I'm very very nervous about the USA right now - they are honestly and truly nuts.
Isn't there something in the constitution about Cruel and unusual punishments.
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Place your bets...
http://www.walottery.com/
KFG
There just seems to be something not quite right in the law when placing bets based on incomplete information is seen just as wrong as torturing little animals. Do they not realize that the majority of players at the World Series of Poker are online qualifiers? Did they forget how much money they make out of these events? Sure, they won't get their share of the money that stays online. That's because they put laws in place some time ago, most likely to win some immediate votes, without thinking about the consequences. Now someone else is asked to find a solution, and he still can't think ahead. Will they ever learn?
That's right folks it's an election year! Next up, child pornographers get life in prison, film at 11!
And you thought Tony Soprano would break your legs. . .
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Washington is a politically diverse state. Once you get outside of the major population centers, it gets rural and Red pretty quickly, like in Oregon. This is why the races there tend to be so close.
There are two Washingtons. To the west of the Cascades, there is s fair percentage of liberal thought. To the East of the Cascades, it's pretty much a Dependent Territory of Idaho.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
The state profits on gambling from horse racing and the state lottery. The Indian casino lobby is huge. Since the online guys don't kick back to the state, and since the Indians have deeper pockets, guess who gets the shaft? Nothing to do with the churches this time.
You can gamble online with stocks and bonds...but not with cards. Wonder why...
Blar.
This is sweet. We definitely need to fill our prisons with more people that shouldn't be there.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
Jack Abramoff's main gig (as far as we know so far) was lobbying for "antigambling" laws to stop new casinos from competing with his casino clients. Also under the guise of "protecting gamblers from themselves", even enlisting the most popular Christian political organizers.
Sounds like "antigambling legislation" is a bigger rigged game, a nest for money launderers, mobsters, bribers and bribees. We should protect our legislatures from themselves by keeping them out of the business. They're welcome to stay in the business of busting money launderers, mobsters, bribers/bribees and extortionists, and rehab for compulsive gamblers - but I doubt they'll be as interested in that losing game.
--
make install -not war
Umm...maybe you're referring to Washington DC. But in Washington state - everywhere outside of Seattle metro / I-5 corridor is fair game Bush-votin' Bible thumpin redneck country. Just one hour north of Portland (an even more liberal place than Seattle), you've got your famous Uncle Sam sign with gems like "AIDS TURNS FRUITS INTO VEGETABLES."
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
Or is it the lobbying of brick-n-concrete casinos?
In Washington State, Indian reservations are building more and bigger casinos. Online gambling is considered a threat. They have successfully lobbied for this law. That's all there is to it.
This is pretty crazy. Washington has tons of casinos nearly everywhere (except Seattle, and the city limits of some other suburbs). That said it seems like they're trying to crack down on the competition. You can go to your local tribal or nontribal casino and blow your money, but don't you *dare* do it online.
This is reminicient of the smoking ban just last year. I don't gamble or smoke, but I do believe in personal freedoms. Sadly, this place is slowly turning into a nanny state as the years go by.
if this isnt gambling .. I dont know what is!
http://www.stampauctionnetwork.com/Watch_lot.cfm
can you beleive people pay that much for STAMPS!! .. wait, one just sold for 25,000 dollars .. amazing. Thats gambling on a HUGE scale, no?
Washington state has legal gambling in casinos and cardrooms. It's about protecting that revenue, mostly.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
This would get overturned if ever appealed to a sensible court. The interstate commerce clause gives Congress exclusive jurisdiction in regulating matters of interstate trade.
I'm actually surprised that Washington of all places was the first to pass this bill.
With our thousands of tribal casinos? This bill is pretty obvious when you think about that particular Washington industry and their lobbying efforts.
Comment of the year
"Gambling Commission Director Rick Day and Prentice, who sponsored the legislation, said the law is necessary, partly to protect the gamblers themselves."
Not sure getting 5 years for losing 100 bucks to an offshore fly-by-night operation will make me feel very protected.
Just follow the money on this one. This guy's in charge of making sure the state gets their cut. This is EXACTLY like getting 5 years for buying merchandise out of state and not paying state sales taxes.
Then why have the stupid law in the first place? If you wonder why people disrespect the laws these days, it's because of crap like this. Who are they going to go after? Internet gambling cafes?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
... what's the difference between this and say, the state banning people from emailling out-of-country? Or from visiting foreign-based websites at all?
To the west of the Cascades, there is s fair percentage of liberal thought. To the East of the Cascades, it's pretty much a Dependent Territory of Idaho.
A pretty apt statement, if I've heard one.
Same for Oregon: there's Portland, and then there's the rest of Oregon. Even Salem (a mere 45 miles or so away) is extremely different culturally than Portland. Shit, even Vancouver, WA, just across the river, is quite different culturally. My friend refers to Vancouver as "Vantucky," if you catch my drift. Interestingly enough, Vancouver apparently has a higher per-capita incidence of $1MM+ net-worth-residents than Portland, likely to escape higher taxes.
I've lived in Portland, but commuted extensively to both places, and was quite surprised. I'm not saying folks in those places are evil or anything (maybe a little naive here and there), but definately different.
The only difference between the two, I'd say, is that Eastern Oregon/Washington are probably a bit less Mormon, but that's just conjecture on my part.
I'm a little torn on this issue. On the one hand, I would like to believe adults can make their own decisions and should be allowed to gamble their money away if they wish. On the other hand, I can understand why gambling is illegal in some places because people are simply too stupid or weak willed to recognize and kick a gambling addiction. This seems just as true for online gambling, and if anything I think the anonymity it affords makes it more insipid than "old fashioned" gambling. Part of me wants to say "too bad" for the saps out there, but I can't help but think that you're exposing these (admittedly weak) people to a dangerous environment for the petty enjoyment of others. Gambling is a lot of fun for most people, but it can devastate the lives of a few. I'm not sure I agree with the black and white decision that the former justifies the latter, although most of the posts so far appear to do so.
a vast majority of the population consist of people that were too liberal for california and decided to move north
Sure, if you're talking about the extended Seattle metro area. The majority of the rest of the state is very rural and quite conservative on average.
It's an extremely 'no government is good government' kind of mentality.
From liberals? What planet are you from?
It's also the LAST place I'd expect that religious fundamentals have infiltrated.
You don't get around much, do you? The area where I live is overrun by Apostolic Lutherans.
I would agree with you on this point: this law has nothing to do with religious fundamentalism and everything to do with protecting state and tribal interest in legal gaming.
Ahh, but over a cable modem?
Information wants to be free.
Entertainment wants to be paid.
You just want to be cheap.
Funny how Magic the Gathering Online, run by a Washington state company, now falls under this gambling bullshit. You can buy tickets to participate in matches, and the winners of matches can be awarded prizes -- therefore it's gambling in the eyes of the law.
Congratulations on supporting local businesses, Gregoire! Oh wait you're in the pocket of the tribal casinos... I forgot.
I've lived in both western and eastern Washington. My assertion is that when they were splitting up the territories, they did it in the wrong direction; Washington should be a long narrow state like California, entirely west of the Cascades, and Oregon should be a bigger yet less-populous state east of the Cascades. Then each state would probably have a much easier time governing itself. But alas.
Comment of the year
"Either that or it's a persuasive tribal lobbyist."
F actBook2004.pdf page 75. My thanks to "Dan" of the 2+2 Forums for finding the contributor information.
Bingo!
I wondered, "Who sponsored this and who contributed to the sponsor's election?" The sponsor was Senator Margarita Prentice (D) 11th District, and here are some of her financial supporters -
WA INDIAN GAMING ASSN OLYMPIA WA
NISQUALLY INDIAN TRIBE OLYMPIA WA
MUCKLESHOOT INDIAN TRIBE AUBURN WA
CHIPS CASINO LLC BREMERTON WA
CONF TRIBES OF COLVILLE RESERVATION NESPELEM WA
GOLDIE'S SHORELINE CASINO SHORELINE WA
This is from http://www.pdc.wa.gov/datarequests/factbooks/pdf/
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
Animal torture is legal as long as you're a large industrial meat processing plant. They only go after individuals, especially if the animal is cute.
Remember congress is pushing for ISP's to retain all kinds of consumer information, they may not have to break any laws to find out that you've been sending and receiving massive amounts of packets to known gaming boxes across the globe. I doubt they'd put the manpower together to do that in the near future, but the day they see that as viable and profitable grows ever closer.
We have quite a few Indian casinos, and playing poker is legal in general. The online joints are probably taking revenues away from the state, so I'm not terribly surprised.
Besides, with unregulated online casinos running in another country, why on earth would anyone A) implement a casino without the ability to skim (Which could be completely invisible to anyone without some serious probabilities analysis tools and a lot of time to sit playtesting) or B) want to play said unregulated online casino?
If I had points today, you, sir, would get one of them.
My conservative parents have baffled me all my life. They home schooled us kids, went to church, all that stuff, and always ripped on the Government when they would try and meddle in church or homeschooling. "Let us decide what's best for our own!" they would say.
I grew up, went away to college, and started smoking and gambling. "Smoking's bad for you, look at these Government studies!" Right, the Government studies. The same Government that doesn't know what's best for you, that you've been putting down all these years, suddenly they know what's best for me and have my best interests at heart. Right.
One thing drives the Government: Money.
Let me say it again: Money.
Oh, sure, they're after power, too; but power's only a means to an end... and what do you think that end is?
Sony ha
You can choose to smoke cigarettes around a newborn baby, even blowing smoke in its face, and it's completely legal, but to gamble your own money should be a crime? Because they can tax the cigarettes, but it's difficult to enforce taxes on online winnings. Without that tax money, how are they supposed to vote themselves more payraises? There is no logical reason for this. If you think about it, most laws are in place for no reason other than as reasons to fine us or tax us to death.
The original purpose of laws at all was to impose a minimal number of laws to ensure the safety of lives and property of citizens. How does it ensure the safety of my life or property if I cross a suburban street anywhere other than a street corner if no cars are coming? I learned to look both ways. It's still a crime a cop could fine me for.
What politician does it hurt if two guys want to go consensually behind closed and do whatever the hell they want to do with each other? Who does it hurt if I want to give a guy a blow job, or he wants to go down on me? Hell, we're adults, and yet these are still crimes in some states. Must we get permits?
See why I like a lot (but not all) of the ideas behind anarchy? Get the government the hell out of our lives.
It's a girl!
When the Tao is forgotten, there is righteousness.
When righteousness is forgotten, there is morality.
When morality is forgotten, there is the law.
The law is the husk of faith,
and trust is the beginning of chaos.
I looked that up for a comment in another story, but it's so appropriate here I had to cut-n-paste.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Wait a minute. There are reasons other than religion why certain types of gambling are wrong and should be restricted. State lotteries are a good example because they take advantage of the poor, desparate and ill-informed. The odds of winning a typical state lottery are thirteen million to one. For the multi-state lotteries, it's in the 145 million to one. While I am sure there are some people who play on a whim, there are a lot more who succumb to emotional reasoning or gambling addition to play when the practical reality is they will never win. Practically any other way they spend their money would be more useful.
As far as online poker, your average person might stand a better chance than with the lottery but not much. With the use of poker bots, the odds for Joe Smith are greatly dimished unless he knows how to utilize poker bots himself or he's sharp enough a card player to recognize when he's facing bots and get out of the game accordingly.
Hee hee.
My mom says I'm cool.
http://www.walottery.com/ The Washington State Lottery. Sounds like a bunch of mobsters wants you to use their racket or they will send goons with guns to your house and send you away. What's it say in the U.S. Declaration of Independence, "Governments are formed to ensure the blessings of Liberty and provide the population with gambling??"
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If you're going to gamble, the state wants a piece of the action. THAT'S what they can't handle. They see it as avoiding paying your taxes, and they treat it accordingly. Don't you just love it? Gambling is just a tax on people that are bad at math, after all...
Step in the right direction. The next step is tougher though: how to ensure that residents of the state don't even have an access to those sites? Otherwise it will be like allowing people to freely sell crack on streets, catching only buyers.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Since the state will generally end up having to support the people who gamble themselves into bankruptcy, they should get a cut of what they gamble. If this law is ever ammended to only allow gambling against online casinos that operate out of Washington state, I would find that quite acceptable.
Not that I'm American or anything. But my 2cents are now worth $1.82 US!
Then again, I've never done it anywhere that didn't meet fire code.
I even have ignited dozens of model rocket engines indoors (safely secured) and detonated thermite. I'd say there is a basic expectation of fire-safety with regards to buildings. If there was a lazy/corrupt/incompetent fire inspector that is where the blame lies.
People are going to smoke, light candles, use toasters, and have accidents in the kitchen. You can't always blame the person that finds the problem.
Man, you really need that seminar!
Five bucks says they'll never catch me.
This is a confusing post:
1) What do you mean by "Buying stocks is legal"? Online betting is legal too unless this law passes, so it's kind of a weird point to be making.
2) And what do you mean by "But the real point is that stocks are legal as the government gets a cut"? The government gets a cut of your gambling revenue as well when you file your tax return (unless, of course, you're also a tax cheat).
But I definitely agree with you that it's all about those greedy politicians.
Pity that Governor Chris Gregoire is a Democrat. Otherwise you all could blame it on Bush/Rove/Cheaney.
Poker bots? YOu obviously don't play- the bots don't do very well. They can beat complete fish and donkeys, but they fail horribly against better players. Their betting is too predictable, you can tell what they have from the bets, and either get out of the hand if you're beat or bet the max they'll call if you have them beat.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Granted lawmakers are ... law makers, and as lawmakers their job is to pass laws, but I wonder to what degree anyone believes public policy (addressing the gambling problem, as opposed to getting their share) can be positively influenced by an act of criminalising personal behaviour.
That said, I'll bet my last dollar there's not a 50/50 chance it'll work.
So who's in?
Good sleuth work! That would explain it.
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
IMHO, the purpose of the criminal justice system is not to punish. Let that sink in. I don't want to punish criminals. It's stupid. It's vindictive. It's emotional and it isn't constructive.
What SHOULD be the purpose of the justice system? One thing, and one thing only:
To separate dangerous individuals from society, and keep them separated.
Note, by "dangerous" I mean physicly harmful only. I don't mean, "they don't live like we think they should". I don't mean "they stole a lot of money". Yes. That's right. Thieves don't belong in jail unless they hurt people physicly. If the crime is monetary, there is an excellent argument for RESTITUTION in the form of fines and wage garnishment. There is no good argument for SEPARATION unless the guy waved a gun in somebody's face to get the money.
I may not *like* the Enron criminals, but wouldn't mind living next door to them. These guys are not going to stick a gun in my face and BLOW MY HEAD OFF. They are (probably) not going to rape my children.
Get it, government idiots?
Some guy who plays online poker and smokes weed on the weekends does not belong in jail. If you want to tax the weed and the poker, fine but I am SICK AND TIRED of my government setting child rapists and armed thugs free so they can put functional members of society behind bars because of their particular notions regarding crime and punishment. Frankly, that kid of life sounds like enough punishment.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Sorry kid but when you put fireworks off inside you are either mentally retarded or criminally insane or trying to start a fire. In any case you belong in jail for live or on the chair.
It was the last Great White show (ever, I would imagine) - the pyro was deliberate, but buring down the club with everyone locked inside was accidental.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
As a resident of WA state, I've watched the casinos fund most opposistion to gambling and smoking off of the reservation. Stop blaming the moralists, it's all about the cash. Casino cash.
#-#
Ad Astra Per Aspera
A rough road leads to the stars
the mob!
( hand in hand with the holier-than-thou religious right )
\u262D = \u5350
Seriously, each significant political party gets its chance to restrict so many freedoms. When was the last time either struck blows in favor of freedom?
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
All that's needed to circumvent the law is for me to have a machine with SSH login in another state (or country). I then can do
putty -D 8080 -ssh hostname.com
And set my browser to proxy requests through SOCKS proxy. No one ever will know what sites I'm contacting. Granted, most poker players are incapable of launching a free tool from the command line and obtaining a free shell account, but the smart ones will still play wherever the heck they want.
I like how the article talks about the hallowed right to spout off without reprisal, while every neocon I've talked to says that getting arrested for booing the president is accepting the consequences of your speech.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
You think everyone who's "mentally retarded" should be locked up for life or murdered by the state?
Sit back, take a breath. Point out to me where he said that ^^^. and never, ever speak on my behalf.
Your comments about bots are quite misinformed. I have played hundreds of thousands of hands online in the past few years (multitabling shorthanded games you can easily get 500+ hands/hr) and made more per hour than I do at my job. I have friends who make a living playing fulltime online. For a good player, there is plenty of money to be made. Bots are a complete non-issue (except insofar as fear of bots scares off potential fish). The best bots today cannot beat anything above the micro-limit games. If you think it is possible to buy a program that you can just start running and beat the games, you are very mistaken. If that were possible, everyone would be doing it (and there would be no more games).
There are frameworks available to play online, but they only handle the clicking of buttons and avoiding detection from the site and so forth. They do not include any useful AI. You need to write your own code for actually making tatctical decisions.
Collusion (from humans, not bots) is a bigger concern and you do need to look out for that. But the sites generally do a fairly good job of detecting it since unlike a casino, they can analyze every hand you've ever played including the cards you fold and look for suspicious patterns (e.g., you always sit at the same table as Player X and when he has a good hand, you raise even though you have nothing).
I'd rather be lucky than good.
Now only gamblers who do not mind taking risks will continue with online gambling.
There should be a law that you can't put a law on the books with no intention of enforcing it.
You forget, in our state, if someone commits a felony that there's a financial penalty tagged to it, you can turn them in for a bounty (usually 10 percent of the fine, sometimes higher).
Which means $1000 to rat out the guy downstairs in your dorm who's underage and gambling online and bragging about the fancy car he got from gambling.
I think there will be lots of takers for that one.
Maybe they'll do a new TV series "Gates: Bounty Hunter" which has scenes like this:
Gates: Hmm, I see Muffy's got a new Cadillac DeSalle parked in front of the Sorority.
Sidekick Allen: Didn't she turn you down for the Spring Fling, Bill?
Gates: Yup, and she's going down for online gambling - I can use that $1000 reward for turning her in to buy another double core processor for my Opteron! Quick, to the Internet Sniffer, Paul!
music crescendo - And So Another Day In The Life of Bill Gates, Internet Gambling Bounty Hunter, and Another Villian Will Be Brought To Justice! - music diminishes
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
| Desk | Desk | Desk | Unquestioned beurocratic self justification!
Church far from equals government here. Look at countries like Iran where the religious leaders have far more power than the government, the government entity only exists and acts in accordance with religious leaders. Sure the church has alot of influence here, but its much more a case by case basis... not even remotely the same.
Secondly, the real "because" of the post you responded to is "because politicians of any party always act in their best interest". This is proven time and time again. Sure they do what the people want... but only when it will benefit them, be it re-election to maintain or get more power, obtain industry allies, receive bribes and benefits. The reality of Republican and Democrat, conservative and liberal is that they are like an auction house simplified down to 2 bidders. All the industries, special interest groups etc represent people and groups... representing money, influence, power. The political parties are bidding on that money, influence, power. If a new special interest group forms up, never seen before... ONE of those 2 parties is going to pick it up, GUARANTEED. Thats money, power, influence... they don't care what it stands for, as long as it doesn't cause them to lose what they already have. Democrats and republicans are more groups of special interests that can stand each other, not about any real united ideology or great plan or desire to serve. People who really want to help people don't make it in politics, its so easy to ruin their lives. Even if they do make it part of the way, they are forced to surround themselves with people who don't give a crap and just there for themselves... so nothing really gets done.
People sit here and are like... "wow, I can't believe a liberal state is doing this". It has NOTHING to do with that, democrats are simply acting in their best interest. Republicans would do the same if they had more control too. They are paid in power, influence and money. Just like most people they don't really give a crap about freedom, or liberty or anything else... unless theres more power, influence and money to be had. Tell a party you'll send them a billion a year to operating online casinos, or pass some random law and I guarantee one of the parties will try to do it. Even if it doesn't "fit" in their ideology. They'll make it fit. If i gave them a billion to fight for my freedom, or guaranteed them alot of power... they'd give me my freedom to. You think you deserver freedom and liberty, politicians think you should pay them for it.
haha... yeah, no problems with that..snort, snicker....
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They should need a warrant to retreive those records, and to get the warrant they should already have some good valid reason to go in and search for just you.
Freedom is fragile and must be protected. To sacrifice it, even as a temporary measure, is to betray it.
I don't know about Tulalip, but the Muckleshoot parking lot is quite packed everytime I go there.
From the 2005 Washington's Lottery Annual Report. pdf
http://www.walottery.com/docs/pdfs/05AnnualReport
FINANCIALS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2005
Total sales 458,131,553
Although the head of the state Gambling Commission says it is unlikely that individual online gamblers will be targeted for arrest, the new law carries stiff penalties: as much as five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
Every time a government passes an absurd and overbearing law that gives it way too much power, the first thing you hear is some beureucratic nimrod saying, "Oh, but you don't have to worry... we won't actually ABUSE that power... You can TRUST us!"
Any legislator who voted for this should be receiving telephone calls every day from their constituents telling them that they will be voted out unless they succeed in changing the law to something reasonable.
How many years do you get for playing poker with the Chief of Police down at the Elks Club? Is it more if you win?
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
so what are the odds that this law will
1 be used to trap some stupid yahoo
2 be struck down
3 result in a conviction for a church that has a website and does bingo nights
4 have very few convictions (say less than 1 a month for the first year)
5 turn out to be SuixEyeSighed for the folks in office
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
In other words, they're committing a "not cutting us in on the goods"-class crime.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
This article's content is gonna put a damper on my .com business plan where you threaten the governor with pictures of naked children torturing animals...
I bet you five bucks I can beat the governor to death with this endangered squirrel. come and get me coppers!
how many pairs of boxer shorts should you own?
they also want to raise the legal gambling age from 18 to 21:
A ID=/20060126/NEWS0402/60126034/1220/NEWS04022101
http://www.theolympian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?
The law is intended to prevent opening up online gambling sites within the state of WA, and the potential for money laundering (start an online account with a reloadable credit card or debit card, put a couple of thousand dollars into a gambling site, then withdraw said funds to another virtual bank account).
At least that's my read on TFA.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
That guy should do exactly zero time in jail.
You got some average guy. This guys lights of indoor pyro as part of a music act.
A foam mat catches on fire, people can't leave because the building is not up to code.
That person will ahve to live with that forever. He is NOT a danger to society.
There is no reason to put him in jail cost the taxpayers 100s of thousands of dollars, and put a hardship on his family, which will probably end up cost taz payers even more money.
If this guy was an arsonist, then yeah, lock him up. He is just a guy, doing a task in a club that the fire martial should have closed.
Seems like a tradgic accident, and the need for a scapegoat to me.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
There are a lot of good comments here explaining why this is simply a waste of time for the U.S. government. But representatives are not going to read any of these and be influenced to vote against the internet gambling prohibition act. Please write you opinions to your congressmen. You can find you congressman at this site by entering your zip code. As a poker player I strongly urge you to spend a few moments to contact your representative and tell him to stop wasting his time and tax payers dollars on silly legislation. The bill currently in congress is "H.R. 4777, the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act". Please reference it if you decide to contact your congressman.
Sounds like a thrill incease factor for the gamblers, they should say thanks.......
I got $50 that says no individual person will do any time for this in the next 5 ... oh wait.
"You ever think about moving back to Seattle? No? Why?"
... ok, I exagerate a little on this one)
Seattle is pretty and green... but man, it's one of the most head-in-the-ass anal-retentive backwaters outside of Utah.
Let's count the ways....
State Controlled Alchohol Sales... no sales of hard alchohol allowed outside of State Owned Liquer Stores, which close very very early and aren't open Sundays of course. Washington State Liquor Control Board
Utterly Insane Anti-Smoking Regulatation... thanks to new legislation, it's now a crime to smoke OUTSIDE if you're within 25 feet/7.62 meters of an open window or door.
No Economy of which to speak. Your choices in Washington are very limited.
Techies get their choice or Amazon or Microsoft for big names and a smattering of specialty software or small scale start-ups to choose from.
No individual health Insurance. A few years ago, all the Health Insurance providers stopped issuing single person plans. Nowdays, the minimum health plan is for 5 people or more. This coincidentally is the minimum amount of people a small business must employ to be required to provide mandatory health insurance. So if you want to start your own business, better not get sick or struck by a car.
Ohhh and in '96 or so the People fought for and won a ballot initiative that required the State of Washington to DEREGULATE Liquer Sales and Allow Safeway etc to be able to sell Jack Daniels et al. What happened? The State Legislature declared some sort of emergency and discarded the newly inacted law in court due to this self declared emergency.
Then of course, there's the entire 2006 titty-bar regulation...
no full frontal, dancers gotta be a mile away, lights need to be near blinding and patrons must bring a note from mom saying it's ok for said patron to be there, patrons with hard-on will be imprisoned.
(
And now, no Internet Gambling.
Of course, you can still drive up Aurora Ave and go gambling there and it's A-OK.
But Internet Gambling is bad mmm-kay! Why is Internet Gambling bad?
Because the State makes no tax dollars! That's why!
Quite clearly WA State wants to be the central figure for gambling and would like to be able to imprison those who would gamble within WA State whose winnings or losses do not line WA State Coffers.
Personally, Washington State should put a big fucking sign on it's borders.
"Now Entering Washington State, Having fun is PROHIBITED, VIOLATERS WILL BE PROSECUTED".
For those still living in Seattle... my sympathies.
"Hypocrite" is a blanket word used in duckspeak, right up there with "democracy".
You know what democracy means? "rule by the people". How can someone have an approval rating in the 30s and be able to make the rules for another two years before the people can do anything about it?
My country allows opposing parties to make a motion of no confidence in the case of minority rule, but the fact of the matter is, the people can't make this motion. And in the case of majority rule, no one can do anything.
Canada's 2000 general election cost $200 million, while the US election cost an upwards of $4 billion. Two elections a year = about $30 a head. I'll pay that to put a little fear and accountability in our gov't.
Then maybe they wouldn't be able to pass stupid laws like, say, not allowing online gambling.
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
As an Australia I cannot understand how the American justice system is so harsh.
This is only one example of draconian style laws against citizens, I don't understand how you throw somebody in jail for 25 years for armed robbery, and even more for murder.
America is also one of only few countries to have the death penalty, most counties got rid of that a long time ago. Up until only a couple of years ago America also had death penalty for children - that to most people is a grose carriage of mis-justice.
Please explain!
The Indian casino lobby is huge.
It is not only huge, but also dangerous.
The governor is on fire
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
What are the odds? If, say, I were a gambling man...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
This one falls into two categories with one go...:
This is why there should be a cap on how many laws a legislature can pass in a year. Well this and the upcoming NJ ban on smoking in a vehicle. Honestly the legislations could spend their time better by going through the books and getting RID of useless crap laws like this that already exist.
I will bet you a DOLLAR, $1.00, that nobody gets prosecuted for this.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
In looking at the original text this bill is a pretty minor update to an existing law. It adds the internet to the list of communications means for which gambling is illegal. The list previously consisted of telephone, telegraph, radio and semaphore(!).
The biggest change is the redefinition of the crime from a gross misdemeanor to that of "professional gambling".
The only other change is to require a 60% vote before the state can offer a lottery that involves an electronic device.
Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.
Whoa... This is actually a pretty cool concept.
Step 1: Provide Free Wi-Fi for an area, but require that each user send you their ethernet ID (so that we can keep the pedophiles out).
Step 2: Log when a person goes to a gambling site.
Step 3: Send this information to the police.
Step 4: Profit!
Hell, if you catch two people per week, you could be doing pretty well for yourself.
Freedom isn't free It costs folks like you and me And if we don't all chip in We'll never pay that bill Freedom isn't free No, there's a hefty fuckin' fee. And if you don't throw in your buck 'o five Who will? Face it folks, America isn't about freedom anymore. Its about commercialism and greed, plain fact. We allowed our governments to slowly take away our freedoms and will continue allowing them to do so. Democracy is laughable and even more laughable that we are pushing it on other countries. I love this country, but I sure hate our governments.
Me gonna go write me open source software and grow long beard and smokum some weedus and ummmm hide from people
I'm not sure how they do it, since it's on gross receipts. Maybe it's the total difference of incoming money and outgoing money from a given individual casino concerning gambling. The B&O tax is a fixed rate, more or less. It tends to be either 1.5% or 1.6% of the gross receipts for gambling if you look at http://dor.wa.gov./
This law doesn't bother me. Gambling via the Internet seems like a bad idea. You cannot check for someone's age, and plus there's no way to deal with people who have gambling problems.
However, what does bother me about the law is the punishment. One, at most it should be a gross misdemeanor, not a felony. Two, they should go after any business which doesn't hold a disclaimer saying Washingtonians cannot gamble via their site. A fine equal to 110% of the winnings or amount gambled, whichever is greater, for the individual Washingtonian who gambled.
How many have heard that Washington state is considering raising the gambling age from 18 to 21?
As a citizen of Oregon, I must insist you got that backwards. Oregon should be the western half, and Washington should be to the east.
Of course I also still think OR, WA, N. CA, and BC should all secede and form a new country, a la Callenbach's Ecotopia. The Eastern parts can run around whining and bitching about how they have to pay taxes, but they'll be totally drowned out by the smart educated folks to the west. As a measure of our remarkable patience with their tantrums we'll even agree to keep paying for their roads, schools, and hospitals, just like we always have.
Of course, I'm also one who would, given a time machine, go back to plead with Lincoln to just let the South go since they'll just end up being a big pain in the arse when we force them to stay.
Anyway, the law defining online gambling as a class C felony is one of the dumbest things to come out of WA since, oh, Tim Eyman. Well, actually, I hope he hasn't come out of Washington because as an Oregonian I sure as hell don't want him here. Please keep your anti-gambling law too.
I hope you didn't post that from Washington.
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
Are they charging people who use progressive.com and geico.com now, too? What is insurance but a form of wager?
With gambling, you are spending some money in exchange for the chance of a good return. Your odds are improved if you are skilled or have someone on the inside.
With the stock market, you are investing some money in exchange for the chance of a good return. Your odd are improved if you are skilled or have insider information.
With insurance, you are spending money in exchange for the possibility of a return. Your odds are improved if you know what you are doing (maintaining the correct coverage for your risk) or know something on the inside (i.e. that you plan to kill the person you just took out a policy on, or that they have a secret terminal illness!).
Terry Pratchett's first Discworld book - The Colour of Magic - has a good and humorous explanation of insurance in terms of gambling.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
You also need an untraceable method of funding your account and withdrawing your winnings.
How bad has it got to actually get over there before you Americans stop believing that you're living in "the land of the free"?
Don't you guys have a constitution? why are you letting this sort of shit happen? Instead of throwing leaders out of other countries you should start with your own...
"Although the head of the state Gambling Commission says it is unlikely that individual online gamblers will be targeted for arrest, the new law carries stiff penalties: as much as five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.'"
Translation: they'll only arrest you if you actually win any money, which the "unlikely" part above refers to
He is just a guy, doing a task in a club that the fire martial should have closed.
I think the goal is that future pyrotechnicians won't just start lighting off fireworks and saying, "eh, it's someone else's job to worry about fire safety, not mine". Hopefully the first question out of the pyro's mouth to the club owner will be, "is this place up to code, cause my ass isn't spending 4 years in the state pen if it isn't?"
The data presented here: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html
Shows that prison populations, murder rates, organized crime, etc... all went UP during prohibition and went down after it ended....
from that source:
"The most telling sign of the relationship between serious crime and Prohibition was the dramatic reversal in the rates for robbery, burglary, murder, and assault when Prohibition was repealed in 1933. That dramatic reversal has Marxist and business-cycle crime theorists puzzled to this day. For example, sociologist John Pandiani noted that "a major wave of crime appears to have begun as early as the mid 1920s [and] increased continually until 1933 . . . when it mysteriously reversed itself."[50] Theodore Ferdinand also found a "mysterious" decline that began in 1933 and lasted throughout the 1930s.[51] How could they miss the significance of the fact that the crime rate dropped in 1933?"
This is nuts..... whats wrong with the world ..... recently people are doing and saying very weird s@it.......
Time to dump the internet and hide in our collective holes.... :-)
*--- Sometimes a majority only means that all the fools are on the same side. ---*
Sorry kid but when you put fireworks off inside you are either mentally retarded or criminally insane or trying to start a fire. In any case you belong in jail for live or on the chair for putting fireworks off inside..
I'm sure you can't see the difference. But as a mentally handicapped person, there wasn't a moment where I thought that meant I should be hiding in a closet for fear of my life because of who I am.
Mike
Travelling forward in time at a rate of 1 second per second.
Feh. People who are stupid enough to waste money on the lottery can fuck themselves over for all I care.
Did you ever notice that *nix doesn't even cover Linux?
I'm given to understand that in some cases of big winnings in vegas, a portion can be withheld on the spot.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I don't even gamble but this stupid law makes me sad to be a resident of Washington State. Sometimes the greed in our State government knows no bounds. They weasel their way into raising our tab fees after we voted them down and they screw us on our road bills where they say roads will be paved with high grade concrete only to be stripped and replaced with asphault, guaranteeing more idiots working the roads and less efficiency in our state funds going to improve more infrastructures. Vote Libertarian and force these pukes to follow through and put the money where they proclaim it will be put and no more.
Let the idiots who become addicted to gambling shrivel up in their own miseries for being weak. Re-privatized our Liquor stores that presently force everyone to drive to the reservations for reasonable prices. Good for the reservations and their exemptions but come on! Stop screwing your residents. Fix out power grids with a joint private venture so we are less susceptible to power outages and real jobs are created instead of the various strip mall retail service ilk.Oh look, the fark.com "I wor for the.....You think you know..." gag/troll has made it's way over to slashdot. How original.
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
You can still play online poker for free or even for money in a freeroll since it isn't gambling by definition. So how will they determine if you're playing with play money (or for free) or actually betting with real money? As for tracking the funds, isn't it circumstantial evidence that I happen to play online for free and have a Neteller account (for example)? I certainly could be using that account for other purposes.
How is online poker different than playing the options market on eTrade?? Yes, stock options make the market more efficent but some could argue poker does too. If you are good then you take money away from those who are not so good at poker :)
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
Doing it in a crowded building is still incredibly wreckless, and IF someone where to be killed, you SHOULD be held accountable.
The whole "I've done incredibly wreckless things multiple times and haven't hurt anyone yet" justification is nothing but a cop-out...
Hey, as the owner of a pesticide plant, I've been dumping explosive chemicles into the ocean for YEARS now, and nobody has been killed yet!
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Two things:
1) Who cares? People gamble. Get over it.
2) What is the penalty for offline gambling in WA? Why does such an arbitrary distinction lead to a five-years term for playing POKER. Wild Bill Hickok would roll over in his grave.
Who did what now?
Whats wrong with online gambling. Your city isnt swamped with the mob, crime, or violence. Arent those the reasons why we ban gambling locally?
They should just sell insurance. $1 dollar gets you 10K if you are arrested.
The SEC has a law around what's called "Pattern Day Trading". In short, it requires that if an individual makes a certain number round trips in and out of stocks in a certain number of days (something like 5 roundtrips in 3 days, you can google for the law if you care), they're classified as a "Pattern Day Trader". In order to be allowed to continue pattern day trading, your account balance must be at least $25K. If not, you're barred from trading for a certain amount of time.
The idea behind this, of course, is that if someone has enough money in their account and they want to lose it trading, go for it. It's a classic "government protecting you from yourself" law.
I think the goal is that future pyrotechnicians won't just start lighting off fireworks and saying, "eh, it's someone else's job to worry about fire safety, not mine". Hopefully the first question out of the pyro's mouth to the club owner will be, "is this place up to code, cause my ass isn't spending 4 years in the state pen if it isn't?"
Not killing everyone in the audience should be sufficient motivation, far more than jail time.
The ______ Agenda
I suggest banning political bribery, putting the electoral system system under scutiny (related to bribes with those unverifiable machines) and banning torture before the USA is held up as a symbol of corruption and not freedom.
This is exactly the sort of patronizing bull**** I would expect from somebody working for the man.
Doesn't this violate the WTO judgement deeming such laws as blatantly protectionist?
I'm not addressing the moral issue, merely the legal one.
This space left intentionally blank.
I'm a long time resident of Seattle and very few people in my state understand the influence our Indian Casinos have over politics in this state. They make tons and tons of money and arent afraid to spend it politically to get what they want.
This law is a direct result of that. They dont want the online competition to their casinos.
Just a few months ago they were the main sponsors of an initiative to ban smoking in all bars and restaurants. Surprise surprise... casinos are excluded from the law. So the only place WA residents can smoke are in the indian casinos.
It's really ridiculous. I'm all for gambling, but right now we have a gambling industry that exploiting government purely for its own advantages. Now we cant smoke in bars or gamble online mainly because the Indian Casino owners dont want competition. And the liberal politicians of the state follow along like lemmings.
Ok, Read the following out loud :
I, Am we tall did.
You can also shoot somebody you catch in the act of comitting a felony.
Personally, I have spoken with one neocon named Hugh over in Fairfax, Va. I try to avoid them normally, as they mostly spew talking points and never listen to dissenting opinions, but this one I did meet. I also lurk on fark.com, and every time someone posts a story about protestors being arrested for not being in a free speech zone or some such crap, somebody spews about consequences, like it's ok to arrest someone for protesting. They're usually neocons, too.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I bet you the law doesn't last
*hears police knocking on the door*
If I can torture an animal, what about a tomato? What about a car?
I guess there are three views on this:
This "torture" you speak of is neither enjoyable nor horrible. It's generally boring, though most kids try it a few times to see what happens.
One thing I can think of is that in Washington (and other states) they regulate casinos in order to make sure the games are fair.
How can the state make sure the online games are not rigged?
Why is this not a problem that bothers online gamblers? If you gamble online, please reply and tell me how you know the virtual cards or virtual dice or virtual roulette wheel is not rigged. I am curious to know as I don't gamble at all.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
* Counsel the murderers
* Jail the rapists
* Hang bad drivers
OK, you've got my vote. Which district are you running in?
They only don't want me _playing_. To fund and withdraw I can go to Oregon.
Wonder if they are going to be raiding people who use E*Trade to gamble the stock market online? They really should be consistent here. Stock Market gambling is just as dangerous as playing cards online. For the children, of course.
I wondered, "Who sponsored this and who contributed to the sponsor's election?" The sponsor was Senator Margarita Prentice (D) 11th District, and here are some of her financial supporters -
WA INDIAN GAMING ASSN OLYMPIA WA
NISQUALLY INDIAN TRIBE OLYMPIA WA
MUCKLESHOOT INDIAN TRIBE AUBURN WA
CHIPS CASINO LLC BREMERTON WA
CONF TRIBES OF COLVILLE RESERVATION NESPELEM WA
GOLDIE'S SHORELINE CASINO SHORELINE WA
That's interesting, though not surprising, information. Greed is an ugly thing. If the leeches running the Indian casinos could see past the nose they're picking, they would they see that online poker is a GREAT thing for them. It HELPS their business. (If you think Indians are actually handling the business affairs of most of those casinos, you're daffy.)
But they're too stupid to see that and flush money down a government rat hole to people that seek to tax and thus control.
Many Indian tribes are very wealthy now as a result of casinos. More power to them. I just wonder if (mostly) white asshats, mostly from the government, are ever going to stop selfishly exploiting and molesting them.
Two hundred years and nothing's changed but the technology used.
All criminal laws automatically fall off the books after N years without a prosecution (or conviction maybe?) under them. If nobody broke the law in N-1 years there's no social problem,and if the government didn't see fit to take any cases to court in that time then the law is just there as a harassment tool.
Refinement: if the government brings a case at year N-1, then the jury gets to hear about the oh-so-convenient timing.
At the great gatherings, a bard would recite the entire law. If the bard left something out, and nobody objected, that was a repeal.
How are they going to police this? ...and still maintain any semblance of Constitutional protections?
How are they going to enforce this?
For the record, all day today KIRO was running a piece about how reprobates have been running an open air crack cocaine market across the street from the King County courthouse in Seattle (this state's largest city) for years, and even they (one of the largest radio stations in the state) couldn't get police to respond. Note to furriners: the sale and use of crack cocaine is prohibited in the US.
I am curious about what offended our state representatives more... that their sponsors the tribal casinos weren't getting a cut or that the state wasn't getting a share. They're certainly pleased to pander to habitual gamblers with scratch tickets and lotto in every convenience store, gas station and grocery in the state. They get a cut of every bottle (or glass!) of alcohol. Certainly they make more bucks off of a pack of cigarettes than the farmer who grew the tobacco, or anybody else who touched it before it arrived at the consumer -- tax is > 50Pct.
Certainly it wasn't the cops, who must use care now only to pull over offenders driving later model cars so as to not overburden the Justice Profit Center with an excess of violators who can't pay their fines.
Yes, that's Washington - the state where you're safe from online gaming and you can't buy Sudafed because you might make meth with it, but you can sell meth, crack, heroin and Ecstasy with impunity in the Junior High School because there's no profit in arresting you. Click it or ticket. Fines are double in work zones. Thanx.
It offends me that I live in the state that reelected Baghdad Jim http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/903913/po sts after this piece ran.
It would be more honest to put a menu on the state house: Calendar days: $50K, Minor issues: $500k. Major Issues: $4M. Public/Private partnerships like ballparks or public transit: Profit sharing whatever we can fleece the taxpayer for. No law too unenforceable, no cause to liberal. It's for our children, dammit! Won't anyone think of the children?
Do I sound bitter? Yes. My son really deserves an "Alex recognition day" on the state calendar, but where am I gonna get $50K?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
The fighting (insert number).
I suggest banning political bribery, putting the electoral system system under scutiny (related to bribes with those unverifiable machines) and banning torture before the USA is held up as a symbol of corruption and not freedom.
Speaking with the combined comments of several of my friends from other countries:
"Too late."
I've been dumping explosive chemicles into the ocean for YEARS now, and nobody has been killed yet!
You may get in trouble with the pollution people, but from a fire safety standpoint I don't see any problem with this, and fire/the ocean actually works as a pretty good comparison. If I were dumping a can of gas into the ocean then throwing a match in, I'd say it's a fairly reasonable expectation that I'm not going to burn down the entire ocean. Of course, there's an extremely slim chance that my little gas slick will spread farther and faster than expected and come into contact with the contents of some sinking tanker. If that happened would you be screaming for me to be hanged?
If you ever get the chance, I'd like you to try something. Take some junk floorboards/roof tiles/random building materials and some (non-professional) fireworks, and try start a fire with them (in a safe place, hopefully). You may make a few singes, some smoke damage, maybe even a few wisps of fire, etc, but you'd probably have to go well out of your way to be able to create some conditions that would ignite easily enough and quickly enough to consume a building and the people inside before it can be controlled/the people can flee. And I'm pretty sure there's a law or two about building owners having to make sure those conditions don't exist.
Ahh, but over a cable modem?
They didn't exactly consider cable modems when the law was written back in the '30s. However I believe the wording said something fairly generic like "placing wagers by means of electronic communications that cross state lines". Besides, just because your end of the connection is a cable modem doesn't mean that the entire path from you to the server you're placing your bet on is a cable connection. Chances are fairly high that at some point your traffic passes over telco lines.
I realise I'm getting a bit pedantic here but that's the definition of manslaughter, not murder. Murder is *by definition* pre-planned.
Also, I would disagree that someone who is unstable enough to kill someone during the course of an argument is not a danger to society. What about the next time someone spills their pint on him?
Mental deficiencies are no excuse to be absolved of any personal responsibility. If yo uare menace to self and others (for whatever reason), that needs to be dealt with and not just swept under the rug because the offending party happens to satisfy some political correctness criteria.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Card rooms are legal in Washington, as are casinos.
The Governor's the former attorney general, she's been pushing all sorts of laws since the day she took office.
I'm not sure if beastiality's illegal in the state yet or not, it wasn't about a year ago when a farm was raided. This may have been a higher priority.
vi? Who's that?
Why is gambling illegal? Why can't I take $10 and bet that the Steelers will win a football game? It's my money, it's my life,and I personally do not think gambling is wrong. If someone is going to ruin their life by gambling, then taking away gambling will just force them to find some other way to ruin their life. A person can gamble on stock options and it's a valued profession, but gambling on sports is illegal. It's exactly the same thing, just one has more government pull.
The United States of America is the land of free will. The ideals of the country are founded on the idea that you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it does not infringe on others' rights. THis bill, and others of it's ilk are extremely unpatriotic.
If I premeditate, its first degree murder.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Ah, hang on, we have a "separated by a common language" issue here. UK manslaughter is (roughly, I believe) equivalentin to 2nd degree murder in the States. UK murder only refers 1st degree murder in the states.
Since the GGP post was from the UK I was being pedantic in British-English...
This argument has always bothered me. Making an example of someone is still destroying the life of the person you are using as an example, and that person is as much worthy of human rights as everyone else.
Putting this guy in jail to make a point is ignoring the fact that he too is human. A mistake was made, and the results exacerbated because of a building being dangerously below code, which is why we have codes. I'm not saying the guy shouldn't serve some pennance, but he'll torture himself with the deaths of 100 people on his head for the rest of his life. Jail is not pennance, it's locking someone up.
A person who really believed in justice would have made the guy do something in regards to pyrotechnic saftey, fire inspection, something - some community service that will make sure that this doesn't happen again. I doubt him being in jail will really work as a deterrent.
It certainly doesn't stop people from murdering, stealing, raping, molesting, selling drugs... etc... etc...
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
Even English Law doesn't require premeditation to be murder.
Only intent ("malice aforethought").
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
By a really huge extension. Being irresponsible with your job and getting someone accidentally killed is certainly negligent but is pretty far from shooting, stabbing or bludgeoning an individual in a heated argument or in a time of stress. The idea that the perpetrator of a murder that was not pre-planned would rarely commit such an act a second time is ludicrous. People with emotional control problems can often end up in road rage situations, simple assaults, etc. even murders. Any reasonable person would not want to hang out with someone who had commited a murder in the past, despite your assertion that these folks rarely commit this act a second time and are no danger! Would you let one babysit your kid?
This post is completely unsuitable for any and all residents of the state of Washington, USA. For the other two interested gentlemen out there:
Place bets here. Under the table. Please
Free ?! Does that mean I can't get a Discount ?!
This message was
Since the two political parties have a [monopoly|stranglehold|entitlement] to rule. You will never ever see change. Which ever party is in power at the time is corrupt. There really isn't much difference in either. And voters really don't have choice at all.
Hmmm, i don't know about the kids or feline offenses but the governor bit sounds OK to me.
"Hey, guv' Wanna bet? I got piccies of animal raped kiddies"
NOT funny.
Blah. Morons.
Free ?! Does that mean I can't get a Discount ?!
This message was
Some of the money saved by not having to incarcerate non-violent criminals should go into that fund and victims of fraud should get reimbursed from that fund. Of course, we should first garnish as much as we can find from the perpetrator. And, of course, the perp should get a criminal record. Jail time for those crimes is a dumb idea. Too bad our laws are based on laws from the 1800s where you get thrown in jail for life for stealing an apple.
- They were pyrotechnics not fireworks. Subtle but distinct difference. IIRC it was a couple of spark fountains and some flashpots.
- The club owner used that cheap crap eggcrate foam (extremely flamible & certainly not code) for sound damping on the ceiling & some walls after receiving noise complaints. He is serving time also.
- There is/was contention on whether or not the band had permission to use the pyrotechnics or not. There was certainly a request made, but whether permission was granted I do not recall. Either way, that was a contractual issue with the tour management, the people setting up the show do not go over the contracts, they just tweek the show for the venue according to what they are told by management. If management does not say no pyrotechnics, and they are a normal part of the show, they get used - because that's what they are supposed to do.
- It is not the pyrotechnicians job to verify that the foam & all other structures meet firecode. It is his job to make sure that the pyrotechnics are placed and implimented in such a way as to ensure their safe use - when the surrounding materials are what they are reported to be. If the spark fountain says maintain 4' of clearance from plaster walls and 9' of clearance from a wall w/ accoustic foam & I place it 9' from a wall which appears to have accoustic foam on it, I did my job. It's not my job to go test that the accoustic foam is really accoustic foam & not some cheap packing material - that is the job of the building owner & the fire marshal.
- Some of the emergency exits where chained closed - to prevent people from sneaking in.
- The club was at, I believe, double it's liscenced capacity.
Overall this was a huge tragedy, with more than enough blame to be passed around. Most of it should rest on the club owners - for being cheap enough to use packing material instead of structural accoustic foam - and the tour management for not verifying that all the documentation - fire inspection, permits, etc were in place prior to the show.Depending on the pyrotechnician, he could have been anything from a flunky following a mapped show to a member of the design team. If he's a flunky placing things according to the diagram he has, blaming him is like blaming a building contractor for not knowing that an architects blueprints are not up to local earthquake specs - it's not his job, that should be done by the general contractor, the architect, and the office of the building inspector prior to the permit being issued.
My $.02 [shrug]
You can also shoot somebody you catch in the act of comitting a felony.
...
Wow! In other words
Cops on Mercer Island
Announcer: Tonight on Cops on Mercer Island, we join a citizens patrol walking the streets in Mercer Island, looking thru windows from the sidewalk to see if anyone is an online gambling felon.
Hick One: Ah see one! He's gambling online! Get out yer shotguns!
gunfire ensues for about 30 seconds, with breaking glass
Hick Two: Dang, he's not dead yet!
Hick One: Yup, guess we just winged him. Good thing, though, looks like he was only balancing his checkbook at one o them fancy online banking things - turns out it was a pop-up online gambling ad. Well, a citizen's gotta do what a citizen's gotta do.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"We have one party [with] two right wings, one called Democratic, one called Republican." - Gore Vidal
OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
What's the big deal about online gambling anyway? If you're not in Vegas, with a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other, stinking from stripper body powder, trying to hold onto your last $25 chip at the $GAME table at the $CASINO (preferably either somewhere on Fremont St., or south of the Mirage), still awake at 9:30 am when your pals come by to collect you on their way to go shooting at The Gun Store on Tropicana, it just ain't gambling. Even Atlantic City barely cuts the mustard.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
My mistake.. no one voted against it in the state Senate, but 4 Republicans and one Democrat voted against it in the House.
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alright ass hat then if you know what your talking about
why don't you explain it to us.......
I won't hold my breath...
dumb ass, thats why you only work at the generals office and are not practicing. stay off the boards if you can only troll.
wait I have to say it again!
Asshat
"(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.