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$999 For a Complete DNA Scan, Worth it?
DoroSurfer writes "ZDNet is reporting that 23andme.com will open its doors on Monday, allowing you to send them a cheek swab and have your DNA analyzed for $999 (plus shipping, of course... ;)). So what's a thousand bucks buy you? They can tell you your ancient ancestry, They can tell you what diseases you're predisposed to, They give you a "Gene Explorer" that allows you to do a search in your genome to find out if you have a certain gene (e.g., you just heard on the news that Gene XYZ has been linked to Alzheimer's Disease)."
Looks like someone hasn't watched Gattaca.
They may have a nice privacy statement, but that doesn't mean any thing if they aren't really enforcing it. Who knows?
Not worth it at all.
Hopefully this wont become mandatory for job applications, like credit reports are in some cases...
No sig for the moment.
I'm going to wait for the full genome scan. Early adopters here will be getting much less than the real thing. With X-prize still contests around for genome scanning, it should not be too long. I want every C, T, G, and A.
After that, I'm all for it. Not even a needle prick is needed.
$99.98
You come from monkeys
I would give them $999 to NOT do a DNA scan of me. Do I want to know if x years from now I'm likely to come down with Parkinsons Disease? Not really, I'd rather just live my life than worry about the future.
I'm a 6' 5" muscular, blonde, blue-eyed swede. I can tell pretty well what my DNA is, it's AWESOME, thank you! So no it's not worth a grand.
I got a catholic block.
Need information yoda does.
So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
...it reveals my latent mutant abilities. I'm personally hoping to find out I can generate fire.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
FTFA: Would you be willing to send your DNA to a private company for analysis? If so, would you pay $999 for it?
Absolutely not! Because, even if they did find out that I was predisposed to some diseases or I even had some, exactly, pray tell, would I be able to do about it? I live a pretty healthy lifestyle as it is. And I know, based on family history what diseases I'm genetically predisposed. So, this service is worthless to me.
Second, are they going to sign a contract that states that they will not release my results to: law enforcement, trial lawyers, insurance companies, or anyone else without my expressed consent? I don't think so.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
How long will it be before they "lose" the gene data? Or maybe "share" the data?
Also given that the CEO is Sergey Brins wife, I wonder whether Google will get involved at one point?
This has already been mentioned, except last time the spotlight was on deCODEme by deCODE genetics which offers more details (1m vs. 600k "sites" of the genome) for less ($985 vs. $999).
I'd love to hear about the results, though.
For rich hypocondriacs. More seriously, I wonder what the implications are for the insurance, medical and even dating industries.
Very much worth it if one is interested in learning about and working to minimize one's genetic risks.
> $999 For a Complete DNA Scan
The word is "scam", not
"scan".
Ne nice, the submitter's DNA has the GATTGOATSECXTAGC sequence. It's not his fault.
It seems like the results of this test could be quite interesting, but I don't think I'd pay $1000 for it. Maybe in another couple of decades this kind of thing would be cheap and easy; in that case, I'd go for it.
Surely someone here on Slashdot who works in biology will know: assuming you have the equipment to do this, how much does this sort of thing actually cost to get done? And how much does said equipment typically cost? That is, how much profit does this company make when you pay them your $1000?
A nice call from your insurance company informing you that they are dropping your coverage due to a genetic predisposition for X disease.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
That's a lot of money for a relatively new technology. While I think the idea is cool, I'd rather wait a few years when it's cheaper, works better, and there's more competition in the field. Let the early adopters pay the high fee and the rest of us can reap the benefits when the costs come down.
And of course, every year we'll have a better idea of what the results actually mean.
Maybe one day it will be as simple as a home blood-sugar test - "use this combination finger pricker/USB drive to get an instant scan of your DNA!"
Oh boy... this is going to take hypochondria to a new level.
How long until government(i.e. USA) orders them to hand over the DNA of Citizen X, a suspect in a crime, so they can match it against suspect DNA from a crime scene?
This basically provides governments with a large bank of DNA they can strong-arm their way into whenever they feel the need, regardless of whatever "privacy statement" the company itself claims to adhere to.
If privacy and your DNA being mapped are important, consider a private laboratory.
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
Trackball users will be first against the wall.
As anyone who's watched ST:TNG knows, a cheek swab isn't completely reliable. You need to have a long needle going into your abdomen in order to get pure enough DNA to make a clone.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
People frequently confuse microarray SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) studies with an actual DNA scan that identifies all 3 billion A,C,T and G bases in the human genome. This $1000 option looks at about 2 million KNOWN sites which vary between people. These mutations are not the ones that actually code for a disease, but because they happen to be NEAR the actual ones that do on the chromosomes, it is assumed that if you have the SNP mutation, you will have the disease-prone variant in your genome as well. The problem with this technique is that it only measures variants that we know about, whereas a true complete DNA scan would be the "gold standard" and provide you with the most detailed information possible. Unfortunately, a true DNA sequencing of this variety runs about $100000.
So instead of forcing your dna into databases so the police will have you on record, you now get the joy of paying a thousand dollars to hand it over? Where can I sign up?
Apart from a few very strong known genetic associations, there is currently little that your genotype can tell you about your current or future well-being. The strong associations are so strong, chances are you already know about it (cos you or close family members have something wrong with you). The weak associations tell you things like your chance of heart problems might be 3% higher than the majority of the population because of a few SNPs.
It's possible that you could find some unknown aspects about your family history but you probably already know which part of the world your ancestors come from.
So it's a vanity project that costs $1000 and possibly compromises your privacy.
I like the concept of knowing what I might be susceptible to. Depending on what I maybe susceptible to I could easily save a grand knowing that now. That would allow me to change my behavior and lower my risk factors. High blood pressures, awesome, I'll work on that now. Cancer? I'll do what I can to lower my risk.
I think the price will come down and that the amount of useful knowledge will go up, its only a matter of time before it becomes worth your time and money.
I'd demand privacy from such a service. I'd hope that insurance companies wouldn't be able to charge me extra because of some gene.
Our doctor advised us once that we should not do genetic assays unless it was a serious health situation. Anything that you learn in the negative direction may be grounds for future denial of health insurance coverage. If you're just curious -- it is probably better not to know.
As a science junkie (but engineer by day), it seems apparent that genetics technology could be as big as (if not bigger) than computer technology has been for the past twenty years. The problem is, someone with a BS in Software Engineering or Computer Science will start out making $50-%70k, while someone with a BS in Biology will only make about $30k. With those kinds of numbers, a scientifically inclined undergrad would be making a huge gamble by selecting Bio as a major.
My hope is that services like this will start to provide jobs for our current Bio grads, pushing the salaries up to a level that makes the choice of a Biology major much more desirable. Only then will the genetic revolution really start to take off.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
While privacy is an issue, I think this sort of thing could an invaluable tool to know more about yourself. Some may want to not know about what they are predisposed to, but I have a hard time understanding why. Sure, you may be hit with something life changing, but those are things I want to know - the sooner the better too. Think of it this way, before you buy are car you should look into its safety, reliability, etc etc. - you look into the investment to know what you are getting into. The same can be said for the DNA decoding - you should know what kind of body you are walking around town with so you can accommodate for any shortcomings nature bestowed upon you.
You can claim ignorance is bliss, but seeking to be willfully ignorant of a subject is the height of irresponsibility.
On the question of whether or not it is worth it for $1000... well I think so. Look at things in the long run - you'll have in inside track on those insurance companies.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
A low low low one time payment of $10,000 and a lifetime contract for tithings just to tell me that some invisible dude created me and my dna is immutable and just the same as adam's. It should be a huge success.
White House seeks to expand DNA database
Citizens, including juveniles who have been arrested for a crime(but not convicted) are being added to the governments DNA database.
We have the best government that money can buy.
I can't find who the CEO of 23andme is (after only 30 sec of research), but Anne Wojcicki is indeed at least co-founder of the company and member of the Board of Directors: https://www.23andmeobjects.com/res/1570/pdf/factsheet.pdf
Oh and Google is already involved in this company, they are an investor: https://www.23andme.com/about/corporate
I have the info on my website and I already scanned you
Results:
You are most like Frodo from Lord of the Rings.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Having been previously misdiagnosed with Leukemia and acting on that diagnoses for almost a year, I can tell you that being told that I'm predisposed to something would make every day difficult and worrisome. Shoudl I eat that? Why do I have a headache? My feet are hot, is that a sign?
I would rather have it surprise me and then live every day for what it's worth. Else you might think you sick and run up a bunch of bills you can't pay when you find out you're fine.
National Geographic has a project called The Genographic Project that will take your DNA and trace the ancient travels of your ancestry. It costs $100+S&H and your data is stored along with an anonymous code only you know (before you send it in.) Then the group takes all of the data it gets and puts it all together to further their research.
The team behind the project has already collected thousands of samples from people worldwide who have interesting lineages (Indiginous people in xyz area) and found out some REALLY cool stuff.
The $1k thing seems like a privacy nightmare though.
-nick
The next step is to incorporate this into an online dating service. Not only can you search on age and sexual preferences, but you can now search for people with or without a specific gene! Search on 3 billion points of compatibility, eat your heart out eHarmony.com!
They give you a "Gene Explorer" that allows you to do a search in your genome to find out if you have a certain gene (e.g., you just heard on the news that Gene XYZ has been linked to Alzheimer's Disease)."
If this is your approach genetic diagnostics, then you're pretty much going to find out that you have every 'disease gene' going..
I don't read your sig, why do you read mine?
There's another company out there doing wall art based on your DNA sample. If I cared enough to spend the money I'd pondered sending them 2 samples, but from different customer names. In theory, the art should have matched.
I'd like to see some consumer watchdog group do this with these guys. Send the same sample, supposedly from different people, then compare the results.
Funnily enough, I got to reading about a similar service last week: The DNA Ancestry Project run by GeneBase (they've had banner ads all over ScienceDaily). As the name implies, it focuses on the Ancestry rather than giving information on disease susceptibility, though I think I remember reading that you'd have full access to your code online and be able to search it. Unfortunately, looking around for further info online returned a blog post full of commenters who were ripped off in a big way by the company. I'm not saying that any company running a similar service is also out to scam you, but I would generally encourage the buyer to be wary, particularly considering the cost of the service and how little and often vague our knowledge really is in this field at the moment.
I didn't RTFA, but do they say anything about fraud and privacy? What if I were to get a sample of someone's saliva and send it in, saying it came from me? I can pick it up from their tobacco chew, or seeing them spit, lots of things! So then what? Can anyone think of any measures against this? I can't think of a good one. of course, I am assuming the crap you get from the inside of your cheeks can be found in saliva!
these types of tests are the future of medicine, i have no doubt about it (i'm staking my current education in genetics on it), but at the moment they don't provide a lot. not only do these tests only cover a very very limited portion of your genome, but their "disease predisposition" prediction ability cannot possibly be very accurate for diseases with complex and largely-unknown genetic backgrounds.
there are now hundreds of known "hotspots" in the genome that have been linked to certain chronic diseases, such as diabetes, heart disease, and certain types of cancer, just to name a few. someday, when DNA sequencing is cheaper and faster, it will be feasible to test large samples of people and extrapolate strong empirical statistics about the relationship between specific mutations and disease, until we find the exact mechanisms of each gene. but for the time being, these statistics are based off of very very few people. for some diseases, looking directly at your sequence can tell you if you have a condition or not. for instance, it is well known that sickle cell anemia is caused by a single nucleotide change, from A to T, which causes a valine to be used in place of a glutamate in the B-globin protein. if one has this mutation in both parental copies of the gene, one has the condition no matter what. however, most other diseases are not so cut-and-dry, and will require huge sample sizes to elucidate the probabilities. this is especially true considering the fact that any one disease can be affected by dozens if not hundreds (or thousands) of different genes. the science of bioinformatics will be very important to us in the future, as pinning down these correlations is as much mathematics as it is biology.
individual disease prediction will have to wait, but one thing that this type of testing can help with now is carrier testing. many diseases are recessive, and one can be walking around completely healthy but still carry the gene for, let's say, cystic fibrosis. If two heterozygous carriers have children, (usually) the odds of having a child with the disease is 1/4. these genetic screens may be able to tell you if you are indeed a carrier, which will allow you to make more informed decisions about having children. "genetic counseling" is starting to take off these days, as couples are increasingly aware of the genetics behind disease.
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch.
not right away of course, due to all the fake 'weather' being manufactured for US. maybe next year, or as soon as the godless corepirate nazis are disempowered by the big flash.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying
see you there?
If your aggregrate life earnings (or another measure of utility) will not be increased by the changes that the info will cause you to do, then no it isn't worth it. The problem is this is a blackbox purchase, it is the typical fortune teller scenario, I have information about your future will you pay X for it, well that depends whats the info? Similarly the value of the genetic scan depends on what the result is. Now if you know you are from an unhealthy family maybe it is worth seeing if you inherited the crap in your family tree or not, after all you might put a greater value on insurance if you think there is a better chance of you needing it earlier than later due to your genetics.
Try 5 years. You'll get more bang for your buck.
that they'll put together and the feds can subpoena.
why not just murder someone and leave some DNA at the scene? then you'll get a scan for free from the fuzz!
Please. This is a more useless rip off than naming a star after someone.
Worth it? Get a couple SNPs checked out? No. However, they make you sign a waiver where you give them the right to use your data for science. Sounds noble? Think again, they are building a database of human data that the medical system has all the trouble in the world to build because of ethical issues. Their goal: make a huge database of "completish" human genomes and then sell access to it to big pharma and do some academic money grabbing by "contributing" to research programs as industry partner. The same way Celera sold expensive access to their "more complete" human genome in the days. Companies bought access for lots of money thinking it would give them an edge. Did it? Sure not, the data was mostly crap and still incomplete. But it's an excellent business model Hey! Would you sign your soul to the devil for a facebook account? You might as well.
how long will it be until someone sends DNA in from someone other than themselves without that person's knowledge, its a cheek swab now which would be pretty rough to get but its not impossible. Also I cant wait till its $5 for a swab and we get civilians doing there own CSI:insert your name here.
How dare you? I know who my father is!
What if I sent a swab from a perspective mate to see what genetic anomalies she may contribute to offspring? What if I sent a swab from my child to see what genetic anomalies they may have? In neither case would it be consensual.
You are most like Frodo from Lord of the Rings. How many chromosome pairs does a hobbit have anyway?
Yeah, it would be nice to through a "; is it" in the place of that comma.
But I find that those who abbreviate English in a space saving and understanding way are more intelligent than those who never do. Not that it isn't messy or ugly, but it's not a sign of stupidity.
There is a type of English screw-up that does indicate stupidity. For example, using "ironic" a lot, or screwing up "they're," or completely screwing up commas in a consistent manner, or most obvious are blatant misspellings all indicate an inability to learn. But this is a title (note the capitalization), and the second clause is like a colloquial subtitle. I think he's just trying to sound as informal as possible.
Like genetics, English is evolving as it moves from generation to generation. This generation is seeing the written language used colloquially in ways it never did before, because of how much content people generate in a short period of time. Face it: it hasn't made it to the textbooks yet, but this is legitimate and normal English in our world, and it's not the egregious ignorant stuff that might dillute or confuse our language
We're going to see so many changes to language as foreign speakers require simplified verbage and people make more and more content. You will be able to trace the words to the English you consider proper, but that will eventually be a totally different language, much as twelfth century English would be nearly useless today.
It is damn sure worth it for my wife, who is adopted. We've tried the family research - dead end. No family history for disease. Genetic profile to get that same info would be great. Nice to see the price falling.
I need to do research to see if this individual service is the best price/performance out there. Within that "best deal" framework, the general idea is desperately needed and very worthwhile.
Heck, I've spent $1000 on a hobby in a day. To save my wife's life, or even just know the risks, it's cheap at twice the price.
DNA Wizard 29 bucks! Do it yourself at home.
Well, it wasn't for all to see.
Let me add that since I work in this field, it is constantly emphasized that complex diseases are not well understood. There are several diseases that can give you a black and white answer, and those are often tested on newborns using a simple panel that does not contain more than a few hundred alternate alleles, very far short of a whole genome sequencing. The rest of the problems, the ones everyone is interested in because they seem inevitable as we keep living longer, are more a problem of living longer than genetics.
It's still going to be a long time before a geneticist can sit you down and having all the data make any sort of prediction, and even then these predictions will only be about biases and what sort of prevention you can do. No one really understands Alzheimer's or the cardiac predisposition genes beyond a few obvious, and rare, cases such as for people who can't clear cholesterol. While hopefully understanding will happen one day, theres not much point in rushing out for one of these babies right now.
Dude, this is /. You want the "Interactive Male" forum. :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
If it stops you having to pay Child Support for the next 18 years, that's gotta be worth it!
is a bit stiff, if it comes down I'll buy it, otherwise I'll hint that I am looking for christmas gifts ^^
\u262D = \u5350
Many adopted people have no way of finding out anything about their family history, including medical information. This could at least help these people find some answers to their medical and ancestral questions.
...but I can get my dog's DNA scanned for $100.
Seems overpriced to me. I already know I'm at risk for diabetes and heart disease, but I have no idea what breeds are mixed up in my mutt...
-F
Remember the amount of single parent families out there prevent a solid background for quite a large portion of the population. So the things that you may take for granted, ie knowing that your Dad had diabetes, other people never know. So the problems that hit later in life might be handled sooner, and more effectively.
Storm
... it'll soon be compulsory
. implicit all IIRC IM*HO £0.02 YM?V
Does the scan come back saying "You are a direct descendant of Adam"?
I saw this on National Geographic and actually a relative offered to buy it for me. I said no thanks. Does it need to be said?. I guess it does. People, do NOT send your DNA to anyone, even if it's 'anonymous'. Once more.
DO NOT SEND YOUR DNA TO ANYONE. It doesn't matter which NGO is behind this (although it's probably Rockefeller and the eugenics crowd), they only have one purpose in mind, and they are even going to trick YOU into volenteering and paying for it! Wow.
As someone who was adopted with little recourse to research my family history, having a scan similar to this would be helpful in determining not only predisposition but also to some degree where my ancestry lies.
Oh no, the government will have my DNA! So what? More than likely the DNA will exclude me from any list of suspects because frankly I am not the type to commit a known crime. But if I ever find myself in that boat, I deserve to get caught and punished accordingly.
Oh no, the insurance companies will reject me! So what? Insurance companies are businesses. I would love to live in the fantasy world where people can pay some cash upfront and some company would pay for any medical condition down the line but that isn't even remotely reasonable.
Oh no, the aliens will know who to probe first! So what? I, for one, welcome our big probe-wielding overlords. With the practice I have had, I can handle any probe they want to shove in.
Alanis Morisette. That damn "Ironic" song isn't even ironic. It is the damn Murphys law!
Alanis Morisette. That damn "Ironic" song isn't even ironic. It is the damn Murphys law!
That word. You keep using it. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
Do you mean throw?
There's always a tipping point on this stuff, where it becomes automated enough (because there's enough demand, because the price is low enough) that the price drops through the floor.
When that happens, two things will happen -- yeah, I'll want one, and I'll want everyone in my family to have one, etc, so we can all be better protected and I can know what gene came from where (which is mostly curiosity), and secondly -- medical folks will REQUIRE this.
Want surgery of any kind? You'll need a profile -- to not have one will be begging malpractice suits.
Want to talk to a GP? The first thing he'll order for you will be one of these, so that he knows what to poke you about or what to advise you. Less so that the surgical staff/anesthetist, but he'll also be begging for a malpractice suit if he doesn't push you to get this.
The estate of anyone who dies of something that could have been predicted by a cheap test will have the option of lawyering up, so this will be very, VERY common is just a few years.
It's ironic because it isn't. Get it?
Ahhh... you seem to be new here. There is a new language that is growing like a cancer. It's called iEnglish. In general it has only a few additional syntactical rules over standard English and a blatant disregard for classic English grammar. Accompanying that are also rules of engagement for internet forums:
1. If you are below a certain level of intelligence and you think it looks cool, do it. Example: Can u read this?
2. The rules of standard English are kind of stodgy and don't really hold up well in polls. Just use whatever you think works and most people will know what you mean even if you don't write it correctly. Also make sure to embrace Appalachionics since it has a warm and homey feel that makes you seem like someone people would want to have a beer with: My warshing machine needs fixed. Or... The nukyelar family is important above else all!
3. Make sure to avoid using more than one or two sentences per paragraph and no more than four paragraphs when writing stuff unless you want someone to think you're boring. Example:
a. Good writing:
"That guy's a troll. He sucks donkey dicks
It's a good thing we're on Digg. None of those crappy Slashdotters.
Go back to Slashdot you asshat."
b. Bad writing:
"Please don't feed the trolls. If you pay more attention to them, they'll keep coming back and lower the tone. The other fallout, is that we have more noise vs. signal if you insist on engaging the trolls. This has been a truism since the beginning of Usenet. I should know, I was there..." (Goes on for ten paragraphs with endless words that are boring, like "truism". WTF is a truism and why should we know?)
4. Make sure to nip any kind of conversation in the bud that isn't beer drinker friendly. The best way to do that is to instantly refer to the poster as a troll if they say something you don't like. The second best way is to invoke Godwin's law even if it doesn't really fit. The main is to keep people from talking about stuff that sucks. Remember, if it won't play on Spike TV, The SciFi Channel, or G4, then it shouldn't be on line either.
5. Always ALWAYS A-L-W-A-Y-S use pictures of videos instead of writing. It's so much cleaner and easier to understand than all that messy and archaic mucking about with text. All you need is a photo or video the presents what you want it to say, then a subject like "Amazing thing!!!!" and you're all set. You'll be communicating in the 21st century in ways that would have had Gutenberg himself breaking out into a cold sweat over.
Welcome to the intarweb tubes. Don't forget to tip heavily!
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Funny as... I love it when one grammar Nazi corrects another.
Me? I wouldn't have used that colon. A comma would have done the job.
I does like proper English.
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Here's how it works for me and half my family:
An older member of the family gets a really nasty cancer detected after metastasis. Before she dies, she insists on genetic screening, and the root mutation is found.
The family then undergoes testing, and roughly half have the mutation. Studies show that 95% of adults with the mutation have a tumor, and in 90% of the cases, it is cancerous (the other 5% being skewed towards young adults)
We then arrange for curative surgery (and by curative, I mean the subsequent incidence rate of cancer equals that of the general population). Some of the insurers pay without problem. Others flat out refuse, since genetic screening is not diagnostic.
So we fight to get insurance to cover the operation.
After the operation, the biopsies all come back cancer.
So when some of us have to change insurer (change jobs, country), we get denied insurance, because we were cured of cancer.
So on DNA evidence alone, insurers refuse to cover cancer treatment. When it turns out that there was indeed cancer, and we're cured of it, insurers refuse to cover us.
You are correct: insurance companies are businesses, and their primary interest is to make a profit. So we should ask ourselves, why is it reasonable that we as a society entrust our health to an entity that is not interested in maintaining it?
Oh and the bit about entrusting your DNA to the government. Well, maybe you aren't the type to commit a "known crime". But maybe the government will use your DNA to associate you with one. Or maybe a clerical error will convict you. Then, all of a sudden, someone who has no otehr reason to be a suspect will get convicted.
I have a sinus infection the never ending drip drip ooze ooze. So would a cheek swab actually measure the DNA of those germs rather than my own? Same question applies for the zoo of other bacteria in one's mouth.
Thanks,
Jim
National Geographic is also treating this as a research project, which will provide cumulative ancestral data about lots of different people. This, the fact that it costs 1/10th as much, and the fact that NG has taken serious steps to ensure anonymity all make it far more appealing then the 23andme option.
Having said that, I will now proceed to wait another 10 years until there is more real competition.
Do they really give a dump of every nucleotide in the genome, with an index? Is that enough data to actually read a new gene discovery and look at how you fared in the genetic lottery?
How about sending them some amniotic fluid, to see firsthand what a fetus' score is, to prepare for their life after their born with some important genetic conditions (diseases, gender, extra limbs...)?
--
make install -not war
... the sucker gene?
Have gnu, will travel.
From slashdot:
"$999 For a Complete DNA Scan, Worth it?"
From 23andme.com:
"...the laboratory process reads nearly 600,000 data points on your genome."
This is a targeted scanning looking for a specific list of genes.
This service does not provide you with your complete genome. It provides a tiny fraction of your genome.
(It sounds really cool and if i had the money to spare i might do it)
*grumble*grumble* this is the part of my post where i bitch and moan about the abysmal level of reading comprehension and writing skills demonstrated by slashdot article submitters and editors.
Can we vote to have slashdot exclusively hire editors who have passed highschool english? please?
I suppose that the punctuation problems can be forgiven but the failure to correctly summarise the article is not forgivable.
*grumble*
:) i thought those dont exist.
Dont Judge The situation by the Misfortunate. Goga.
and if you call in the next 30 minutes: they'll help you fill out the paperwork for the patent office too!
... build a man a fire, he is warm for a day.
Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Actually, the Alanis Morisette song is chock full of irony but just perhaps not in the way she intended. The original (and still somewhat current) meaning of irony was that the butt of the joke would not realise that the joke was on them and would continue the conversation in earnest so it is very very ironic that Alanis wrote a song about irony in which she herself clearly has no clue as to the meaning of the word and which allows us all to laugh at her ignorance. Of course, she could have been honestly enquiring after an example of irony although the song would then have needed the removal of the negatives and a slightly different emphasis such as "is _that_ ironic? Do _you_ think?" I like to give the girl a break and assume the latter :)
Nick
Let me tell you a little story that my grandma kept telling me. Apparently at some point her father and a friend of his went to some clairvoyant to ask when they're going to die. So they got their vague predictions, laughed at them and went on to live their lives. I don't recall the exact predictions, but think something along the lines of "you'll die on a tuesday." Then the friend actually died on some date that would have sorta fit the prediction. And that's when great-grandfather's skepticism went down the toilet too. Supposedly he ended up living the rest of his life (which actually was a pretty long time from that point) like he's permanently on his last week on the death row.
Which is to say, pretty bloody depressed.
What's this got to do with genetic testing? Well here's what: the prediction you'll get there won't be any more accurate than that witch's prediction. There's noone who can tell you "you'll die in exactly 15 years, from exactly this disease." Your body doesn't work like that.
What it can tell you is that you _might_ at some point develop a certain problem. Or maybe not. (And doubly so in this case, since they're looking at sequences _near_ the ones that could actually cause the problem. There's a subtle difference there.) And maybe you'll die in 15 years. Or maybe in 15 months. Or maybe you'll die of old age without ever developing that condition.
Only now it's packaged in enough science to be believable from the start. You don't need to wait until your best buddy dies to start worrying.
And it doesn't tell you anything that's actually usable. If you knew "I'll die in 15 years, of cancer", ok, it's a depressing thought, but you can at least know you don't need to worry about your pension fund. It's something. But knowing something like "I have an 1% higher chance of getting testicle cancer" is something that will just make you worry, and you can't even use that information in any smart way. You don't even know if it will actually happen, nor when, nor whether it will be treatable, nor what the side-effects of that treatment will be. (E.g., currently at least one chemotherapy medicine used against testicle cancer tends to destroy the kidneys and leave you deaf too.) It's just stuff to helplessly worry about.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
For genetic genealogy purposes, the Genographic Project provides only the minimal information to identify your ultimate ethnic origins (12 markers for the paternal line and the HVR1 region for the maternal line). Family Tree DNA, which is in partnership with the Genographic Project, will expand the testing to 67 markers for the paternal line and the HVR2 region for the maternal line. All told, it's easily several hundred dollars to fully probe the markers commonly thought to be useful for genealogical purposes (like comparing DNA with someone who may share a common ancestor with you).
Now that at least two companies (23andme and decodeme) are offering much more extensive genome scans for $1k, these genetic genealogy companies are going to have to drop their prices to remain competitive. This could be a boon for genealogy geeks!
That's why I always walk across a busy intersection without looking. Because I know no one can hit me, it's against the law!
Seriously, just because something is against the law, like sharing someone's medical records without their permission, doesn't mean it never happens. Even if they don't delibrately give your information away, there is also the risk of data theft.
Gattica is no longer SciFi.
You really find it useful to know what you're predisposed to? Anyway, what can you f.. do about it?
It's just like asking a PC shop to take a look at your 59$ inkjet printer that stopped working last week. They can tell you what's broken, but they ain't got nothing to fix it!
Reminds me of the Cheddar Man http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9707/31/cheddar.man/ story from a few years back. A history teacher in Cheddar, England agrees to be swabbed and finds out he's a match with the local celebrity.
> You come from monkeys
We're descended from the great apes, actually. Not monkeys.
(Only in America do the Christians have a hang-up about evolution.)
how about unilever?
All these trillions protected by patent and they can't afford more bio grads?
Many people have discussed that song. In my conversations with friends, we have decided that most of the examples of irony given in the song are not ironic, although some are mildly ironic. Our conclusion, though, was that a song about irony with lyrics giving wrong examples of irony *is* ironic, *because* the lyrical examples *aren't* ironic. So, it's ironic because it's not ironic. Alanis is either a grammatic genius or... well, or not.
I wish I had enough mod points to rate every reply to this troll (-1 offtopic). I mean who gives a fuck, really. Get a life.
Insurance always asks for all med records when you apply. You have to sign it to get insurance. This is how the get around HIPAA.
Hmmm ... O, S, E and X are not usually found in genes. Is he an alien, or just a result of a laboratory experiment?
Oh, and BTW, which nucleotides do those letters stand for?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your news letter.
Also, Appalachionics is not the correct term. The term you are looking for is Hicklinguistics. You can learn this at many universities such as Penn State in Pennsyltucky.
Bioengineering. You can have the best of both worlds?
So many Americans have no idea of their true origins because of the transitory nature of our culture - successive generations who pick up and move and settle and then the next generation repeats the process. Our family histories are lost in the shuffle.
My father's family history ends four generations ago in Cairo, Illinois. We can guess from the family name that it probably originated in Scotland, possibly came through Ireland, and then arrived in America. But no one knows for sure and no one knows what other blood may have been added to the line after it arrived in the New World. I'd like to know, for curiosity's sake, but I'll wait until the price comes down a bit (more proof of my Scots heritage).
What?
The thing is, a scientifically inclined undergrad realizes that a BS in biology is basically worthless in the job market. That's not because employers have unreasonable standards either, I've seen people come out of ivy league bio programs, and unless they have good research experience independent of their coursework, they don't even know how to hold a pipetteman, let alone more complicated protocols like PCR, or the independent thinking required to become a PI.
I think overall comp sci and engineering programs are doing much better jobs of training students to be productive after four years, the way things are set up in biology getting a PhD and often post docs, are pretty much required to gain the skills required to be more than a technician. In other words, you're lucky if you're only thirty the first time you get a "real" job. Personally I'd a lot of the problems are the result of so many biology programs have been made over into feeder programs for med schools, which require a very different skill set from doing research.
"So what do you do with a BS in biology?"
"Tend bar?"
It's a spit-tube. The DNA Ancestry Project is a swab...
-Carl
I am tired of all these idiots talking about "hey, he has A.D. because he has the XYZ gene etc etc". Street simpletons use this phrasing, scientists use it (even though they know better), frigging editorialist uses it. Wrong wording!
Excepting genetic freaks, everyone has the XYZ gene, for $DEITY sake! The unfortunate subject just has a defective one, that's why he's predisposed to A.D.
I'm all for discrimination based on ability- but DNA testing is hardly that. It's pretty clear that even people with serious genetic problems can do great things, an obvious example being Stephen Hawking. I don't see how denying me a job based on my genetic code is any different than denying me a job because I'm female or black.
You're probably just talking about discrimination done by health insurance providers- which, incidentally, would also lead to health insurance rates being different based on race. Different races have different predispositions to various diseases, not to mention that some ethnic groups have a higher tendency to need emergency medical care due to bullet wounds. You may find that acceptable, but many Americans have serious problems with that sort of discrimination.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
Let me swap your DNA, baby... ... and I want an iPod like wireless device, which warns me if a female with perfect DNA match comes near me...
This little gizmo might as well pre-screen the babe for my visual and maybe more meaningful preferences, in case of further match, the gizmos could pre-arrange some schedule for introduction, sending further info, pics and upon approval initiate a date according to our schedules and favourite locations.
I love future.
"Yeah, it would be nice to through a "; is it" in the place of that comma." Clippy says: "Did you mean 'throw'?"
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
This is not only true for the adopted. There is a geopolitical angle to genetic testing. What of those who had radical name changes during the Ellis Island process? What of those who were trying to cast off their former identities for fear of persecution? The only practical reason that anyone would use genetic testing for ancestry purposes is to obtain an alternate citizenship. Many nations have become wise to this some time ago. They are looking for at least a bachelor's degree AS WELL as an unbreakable document chain long before any talk about issuing a passport on the basis of genes. What would be the motivation to obtain an alternate citizenship? Is it that the good old US of A will not be for us as it once was for our forbearers?
Many of our forbearers came here with the idea of casting off old identities and becoming Americans which sometimes included rhinoplasties and namechanges . Nowadays with the current interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment, statutes and caselaw as a suicide pact, their children and grandchildren (read: some of us) are having second thoughts about remaining here. It's like what has been happening to Argentina since 2001. Even so, Europe is having more problems with Islamic extremeism than in the USA. Sounds like 'frying pan into fire' to me.
Ever since the Lemba people in southern Africa were found to have Levitical ancestry has the 'genetics for ancestry' thing become such a hot topic. The reason is that for some of them, it became an express ticket to Israel and its citizenship which for them was a relative step up in the quality of life. As for information sharing or leakage, it would be rather macabre to be informed that one has been found a carrier for Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's and/or other such genetic disorder by receiving a letter from the Israeli consulate about applying for citizenship. Rest assured that such will NOT happen. Any hint of Christianity will disqualify emigration to Israel, yet that hint did not protect them from the Nazis [non applicat lex Goduinis]. Many tried to convert their genes away but it did not work. Read up on the inventor of Zyklon-B, Fritz Haber. For those still living, Google "Beresford Decision" and "Israeli citizenship". Genes may get you in, but theology shall certainly screen you out.
Submission as evidence constitutes plaintiff and/or prosecutorial misconduct.
It's not a "complete scan", it's testing for a large number of known variations.
:-)
Meaning? Meaning that this is not the last scan you'll ever do; you'll probably need to do this again in a few years when people will be testing for even more variations, or when you can simply get your complete sequence for $1000.
What's it good for? If they find a specific, serious genetic defect, it may help you medically, but if you had one of those, you'd probably already know about as an adult. Otherwise, it's medically not all that useful.
It probably is still a fun thing to do. It can tell you about your ancestry, and it may get you thinking about nature vs. nurture. Who knew that you had the super athlete gene, but wasted it sitting in front of a computer?
What colon? Oh, you mean the semicolon, right?
Do not put statements in the negative form. And don't start sentences with a conjunction. If you reread your work, you will find on rereading that a great deal of repetition can be avoided by rereading and editing. Never use a long word when a diminutive one will do. Unqualified superlatives are the worst of all. De-accession euphemisms. If any word is improper at the end of a sentence, a linking verb is. Avoid trendy locutions that sound flaky. Last, but not least, avoid clichés like the plague.
No, Clippy says:
"It seems you want to be a grammar Nazi. Do you want me to help you?"
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
The benefit of a 'healthy' full body scan isn't finding current problems. When you do have a problem, already having had a scan when you didn't have that problem, allows a new scan to be much more useful, in as much as you already know what was there ahead of time, and can take a gander at what has changed.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
It's a headline, fer crying out loud! Headlines are notoriously not grammatically correct, and ofttimes ambiguous. "British Left Waffles On Falkland Islands" for instance.
Name: Mr. Anon E Mouse; SSN: 555-55-5555
Don't dismiss this out-of-hand - there are some seriously good uses for this for some people, just as there are uses for things like CF carrier testing.
For some people, it's very useful and/or comforting knowing if you have (or don't have) the BRCB2 (sp?) gene that predisposes you to breast cancer, or if you have a gene that causes you to be more sensitive to a wide range of drugs (there's a test on the market for this now), or are a carrier for certain nasty genetic diseases.
My family has a history of Type-1 Diabetes, for which a predisposition/risk factor is genetically linked through around a dozen genes, some of which have been identified (and some are shared with MS and Crohn's disease). It would be useful for people in my family to know if they're carriers for some of the genes that increase risk - doubly so since there may be ways to reduce the risk through environmental factors, or the possibility of close monitoring of those at risk in order to enable possible treatments before the immune system has destroyed all the Beta cells.
That said (and there are plenty of other positive uses), there are some serious issues with any test like this.
Privacy is a huge one. Partly from the government (see: Gattaca, Homeland "Security"), partly from insurance companies, partly from the courts (i.e. warrant from a prosecutor or civil suit telling 23andme to release a profile for a court case). And the issues others mentioned - advertising, control in the long future of the info, etc. The current administration (and things like warrant-less, illegal wiretapping and "terrorist databases" have made a lot of people far less trusting of either the government or large businesses that hold our information.
Another is psychological, as mentioned in the story - how much do you *really* want to know about your risk factors? Everyone has a bunch, and most of us know the major ones (family history of heart disease/breast-cancer/CF/yada yada), but there are a lot more we don't know, and most of them will not actually ever affect us (my uncle was convinced he'd die young from a heart attack like my grandfather, retired at 59 - and he's still splitting his own wood with an axe at age 84). It can be very scary, and could cause people to warp their lives based on a poorly-understood risk. (Even if the science behind a genetic risk is well-understood, the user of this report may not understand it.) With regards to procreation, some 'genetic' risks are not part of your genetic makeup - they're due to imprinting issues and/or genetic damage/aging of reproductive cells.
On the flip side - if you were adopted or simply didn't have access to medical records for most of your family, or had very few relatives, you might welcome the chance to find out the same risks that others know from their families.
So I see no problem with offering it. I'd STRONGLY suggest that they do everything possible to minimize the worries over privacy of the records, though no assurance is likely to remove all legitimate fears (or paranoia).
If I had the free cash, I would consider it, might help direct treat of medical conditions, suggest a change in diet. The other side is that, if you KNOW that you have a problem or there is a chance of a problem, answering some employment or insurance question could get interesting.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
I've done a fair bit of genetics at university, and have a few friends that are doing masters/phd's in genetics.
I believe $1'000 is too expensive, in Australia if you have a genuine concern and want a DNA test for further information - just ask your GP.
Most DNA tests are covered under medi-care and will be free. As they will be doing these genetic test en mass, the savings will be absolutely huge - I wouldn't be surprised if they are making way over 70% profit on these test. As most of this data is available in journals and free databases anyway, most of the actually "science"(for lack of a better word) will be fully automated.
The depth of these tests will be laughable, they are no way comparable to just looking at your parents/family health. Thats a real genetic test right there.
My favorite genetic test they do is to see what kind of earwax you most likely have, e.g., "wet (sticky, honey-colored) or dry (flaky, grayish-yellow)"
Https://www.23andmeobjects.com/res/1570/pdf/journal/earwax.pdf
GOSH DAMMIT, just stick your finger in your ear.
Testing en mass, does not have the depth to justify the massive profits the biotech companies make. The technology is not at the stage for it to be of genuine use.
Its like trying to get a 386sx to run vista...
And the argument that biotech companies should sell scams like this, so they are make money to do further research and development parallels that of the pharmaceutical companies. Research money only goes into paths that will make short term financial gains. Adam smith was a prick.
I was (like a few others) adopted at birth, and have no medical history available. I also do not have a family history, although i can narrow it down to white(non-hispanic)( i think). Would a test like this give me any meaningful info to use? It be kinda cool to know what part of the world my birth ancestors came from, and it be nice to know if i had any chance of so-and-so disease...i think. Anyone else adopted, dont know their birth parents, and done this? The price is close to something id seriuosly consider, but it seems the 100k one may be more useful to me...but i'll have to code awhile longer...
#include bier;
To map the very stuff of life; to look into the genetic mirror and watch a million generations march past. That, friends, is both our curse and our proudest achievement. For it is in reaching to our beginnings that we begin to learn who we truly are.
It's likely that this will change in the future; sooner or later it's likely that somebody will figure out how to slow down or stop the damage to the brain characteristic of Alzheimer's, and if that was the case it'd definitely be worth knowing that you were on course to develop it. But that's not the current situation.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
This company was the subject of this month's Wired Magazine cover story, fyi.
Does everyone know that this company is owned by the wife of Sergey Brin and funded by google? Maybe they want to search your genes next...
My UID is prime is yours?
Have you ever wanted the intrigue of being a serial killer but have ethical issues with the idea of actually harming anybody. Did you know that [insert statistic I haven't bothered to look up] murders go unsolved every year. Did you know that the number of people who are in the DNA database is very limited at this time. So if you submit your DNA now you have an excellent chance of being the "closest match in the database". Thats right, without so much as hurting someones feelings you could become the lead suspect in one, or even multiple, murders. Get scanned soon, the longer you wait the worse the murder/database ratio grows. Expert witnesses willing to testify that you "most likely" did it available for an additional fee. Results not guaranteed. No refunds.
BMP? For science?!
"Yeah, it would be nice to through a "; is it" in the place of that comma." through throw? "Nobody expects the grammar Inquisition!"
My bet is that within 5 or 10 years we'll be able to get our complete sequence for the same price. I think I'll wait.
I was joking, dude. That wasn't obvious?
I guess not. My bad.
No, it wasn't obvious.
Though I haven't heard that excuse before. </sarcasm>
The test looks for 20K known markers. It doesnt decode all 3G bases. However, at this point in time markers are more useful than knowing the bases.
This company is also hoping to build a database of hundreds of thousands of humans to refine what these markers really mean. I believe you select among various privacy levels in your DNA. Teh drawback of being too private about about your DNA is you dont get future feedback from new discoveries.
haha, it was a good joke, two.
Pedantic people, "Grammar nazis" as they are being called here, are easy to pull out of the woodwork. They don't understand English, where it came from, and how sometimes it's okay to be conversational, especially on the internet. I'm afraid that my joke wasn't obvious to a lot of people, but my point should be.
Not that people laughing at my post above are grammar nazis, since it is a funny and blatant error. But it's so weird to see those two or three people who are unable to recognize the occasional superiority of language that is semantically improper or grammatically flawed. I'd say it's a "very unique" person who has that dysfunction, but I might catch some flack.