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Ubisoft DRM Problems Remain Unsolved

ocean_soul writes "More than three weeks after the release of The Settlers 7, with the controversial 'always on-line' DRM, a lot of people still can't connect to Ubisoft's DRM servers. The forum threads where people can post if they are unable to connect keep growing daily. One reason for the lack of fixes or responses from support seems to be that the people responsible were on vacation during the Easter holiday, despite the promise of 24/7 monitoring of the servers. The moral of this story seems to be that it is a bad idea to buy a game just before a major holiday." Or perhaps that it's wise to avoid games with such DRM altogether. So far, Ubisoft hasn't shown any sign that they're reconsidering the requirement of a constant connection. They've recently said it's "vital" to the success of their games and promised that their DRM would "evolve and improve" over time.

430 comments

  1. They don't care about the problems today. by node+3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's clear they don't really care about addressing the problems people are having today. They have already accepted that there will be issues, and they just plan to react and evolve the DRM, but to never remove it. They're in it for the long haul, and if a few eggs get smashed along the way, they're quite fine with that.

    1. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is because idiots keep buying them. People need to stop buying their PC games, and if they REALLY want to send a message, put their piracy statistics through the roof. Download the game 4 or 5 times. If Ubisoft ever removes the DRM from the game, then show them it's appreciated by buying a copy, and putting a nice spike in their sales graph. All the people at the top ever see are graphs and fancy numbers. Show them it doesn't work through those.

      This is what happened with Spore, and EA has since realised that they can't treat customers that way anymore. They are now removing DRM from their games shortly after launch.

    2. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      and if a few eggs get smashed along the way, they're quite fine with that.

      Will their shareholders feel the same way when Ubisoft titles have the reputation of being flaky, hard to play, and prone to technical malfunction?

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    3. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their DRM is an evolutionary dead-end, in my opinion. It's extinction will be a definite improvement.

    4. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > They're in it for the long haul, and if a few eggs get smashed along the
      > way, they're quite fine with that.

      Unless they are the eggs...

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    5. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though I think to put it in the simplest terms from the minds of Ubi that it all ends up to one universal idea "Buy a console"

    6. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      and if a few eggs get smashed along the way, they're quite fine with that.

      Will their shareholders feel the same way when Ubisoft titles have the reputation of being flaky, hard to play, and prone to technical malfunction?

      That depends on the bottom line ...

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    7. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "You get what you pay for", or, "A fool and his money are soon parted"?

      I think it's more the story of the fool and his money. Don't buy DRM, people! DRM is a promise that you'll be screwed, later if not sooner. Think hard, then name a half dozen DRM schemes that have lasted for years, and STILL WORK. I'll bet you can't do it. No one supports much of anything after just a couple years. Windows XP was probably the longest lasting support story, and that was what? 7 years?

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    8. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Goaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      put their piracy statistics through the roof

      Clearly the game was a runaway success, but the DRM was just not strong enough.

    9. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Strange. Their stock actually seems to be climbing.

      http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=UBI.PA

    10. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even when the DRM is not a problem (games on consoles like ps3), the sales will drop due to bad publicity. Example, Assassins Creed 2 on ps3. I saw the price of this drop to $30 (half off) at more than 1 store within the first month.

    11. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It won't happen. Any marketing exec can tell you that if a product isn't selling, just keep throwing money towards advertising. Cool factor and peer pressure ("Dude, you don't have Game 3: The Game? What the fuck man, that game rocks!") will keep sales at more-than-acceptable levels.

      It's just like Brave New World. So long as the entertainment is good enough, people will remain placated and apathetic.

    12. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 0, Troll

      Pirates share precisely the same attitude. So what?

      I don't hear a lot of sympathy in your post for Ubisoft either. Why should they care what you want if you don't care what they want?

    13. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kneo24 · · Score: 1

      Why should anyone have sympathy for any company? Trolling shill much? Ubisoft should care what their customers want. It's how they sell stuff. Duh.

    14. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by gmack · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you REALLY want to send them a message don't buy it and don't pirate it either.

      Pirating the game tells them that you would have bought it had their DRM been foolproof.

    15. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pirating the game tells them that you would have bought it had their DRM been foolproof.

      It doesn't tell them that, though moronic media and game execs tend to imply it because they don't know any better.

    16. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why should anyone have sympathy for any company?

      Sympathize or don't. When you don't, don't expect any sympathy in return. Expect decisions like the ones Ubisoft has made.

      Ubisoft should care what their customers want. It's how they sell stuff.

      Customers are people who pay. And if they don't pay enough to cover the cost of the trouble they cause, then they're not worthwhile, are they?

      Customers who bought the games for consoles don't seem to be having any problems.

    17. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by SpeZek · · Score: 1

      If people stop buying their PC games en masse, they'll simply stop porting them.

      We're fucked either way.

    18. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by masmullin · · Score: 2, Informative

      The shareholders dont give a shit... the shareholders are all rich 65 year olds hanging out on yachts and drinking Perrier. All they care about is that UbiSoft keeps paying daddy.

    19. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kneo24 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sympathize or don't. When you don't, don't expect any sympathy in return. Expect decisions like the ones Ubisoft has made.

      Your entire position is ridiculous. The consumer shouldn't need to sympathize with a company. It's not a person. It's a thing. Companies exist to provide services. If their services aren't pleasing their existing customers, then they are doing something wrong. What other people do to them doesn't matter in a sympathy context. Even when people do sympathize with things, like faceless companies, they still fuck their customers in the ass. So again I ask why any person should sympathize with a thing.

      Customers are people who pay.

      Yes, and?

      And if they don't pay enough to cover the cost of the trouble they cause, then they're not worthwhile, are they?

      How are their customers causing trouble in this scenario? Is it due to their complaints about a broken product that hasn't been fixed after 3 weeks? Is that, "causing trouble"? Should they just shut up and silently take it like good little consumers?

    20. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by guruevi · · Score: 1

      This is typical of short-term thinking on the side of management. Here they are thinking really, really short-term. The people that complain already purchased their copy of whatever game they were selling. There is no benefit in providing them with any more service as they won't pay to cover the costs of it, the profit has been made, the game has been sold in most places you can't return digital media once you opened the shrink wrap without a court order practically.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    21. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The American way of doing business is slash-n-burn anything and everything. Why sell one kidney when you can sell two for twice the price? You'll be rich before you die! Air and water? If I make it unbreathable and undrinkable, I could sell it filtered at a 100x markup! Anything to prop up that quarterly report, cinch the bonus, and skip town. No one gives a shit about long term.

      Shareholders will see the quarterly report (Looks great on paper!) and spend their imaginary money.

    22. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boycote comes to my mind. Let's spread the word...

    23. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by masmullin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, its because there is a culture of piracy surrounding PC gaming. I remember back when I was in college, all my classmates were shocked that I paid for my video games.

      I dont judge the people who pirate games, I dont pirate software because I find it to be "unsafe computing" ; its like sticking your cock in a streethooker and saying "OMG how did I get the Herp?" Im just saying that the culture of piracy is what is behind companies like Ubi installing DRM systems.

    24. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by ThePhilips · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Let them stop porting the games.

      There would be then more coverage of free and indie games. And that's good.

      I can't help but think that consumerism took over the gaming and majority of people presume that only large corporations are capable of making interesting games. Sooner the myth gets busted, better.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    25. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by discord5 · · Score: 1

      and if a few eggs get smashed along the way, they're quite fine with that.

      Will their shareholders feel the same way when Ubisoft titles have the reputation of being flaky, hard to play, and prone to technical malfunction?

      That'll depend on how many suckers keep buying the games.

    26. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sympathize or don't. When you don't, don't expect any sympathy in return. Expect decisions like the ones Ubisoft has made.

      Wow, seriously? Lets try a little role playing. You can be Joe Average, I'll be Bank of America.

      "I just lost billions of dollars in bad business deals! Sympathize with me by writing to your local politicians saying you support a government bailout of my company! Oh and accept a tax increase as a result. You don't sympathize with me? Well tough luck loser, I'm getting that bailout anyway and you're getting a tax increase regardless."

    27. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Customers who bought the games for consoles don't seem to be having any problems.

      Well that's just lovely then.

      I don't play console games, I can't stand the controllers.

      But please quit the bullshit that my PC needs to have an active internet connection to run a fucking game! Part of why I even BUY games that are even worth playing as single player is because my network connection is often for crap (no matter what Verizon's CEO wants to tell you) even though I live in a city, and if I want to play a single player game chances are its because my network is flaky or that I'm somewhere without net access.

      If they want to demand network access DRM, then THEY can pay for the connection required.

      If their product doesn't work due to their retarded DRM scheme it should be legally returnable, and that's what people should be doing. Send the crap back. Demand you money back. If you don't get it, go to your state's attorney general.

    28. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Voyager529 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Think hard, then name a half dozen DRM schemes that have lasted for years, and STILL WORK. I'll bet you can't do it.

      I'm *NO* fan of DRM, but I accept your challenge...

      -CSS on DVD's has been cracked and anyone who knows to look for any number of apps employing DeCSS can bypass it, but it's enough that commercial apps like Roxio and Nero won't do it, and a search for copying DVDs will yield 1,001 apps that either don't live up to their promises or install malware, so while it's possible, I'll give it half-credit because Joe Sixpack will have to do a decent amount of research to figure out how to do it properly.

      -The DRM on WMA has held up pretty well; it had been cracked in the past, but AFAIK the latest incarnations of it are still largely intact. Whether that's a "they did it well" or "no one cares" issue, I can't tell, but the bottom line is that I'm unaware of an app that will unlock a song rented from Napster To Go if I download one today.

      -While I've seen rips of iTunes videos leaked on a few torrent trackers, by and large I haven't seen a widely distributed app that will crack the DRM on the videos from iTunes.

      -While not technically 'years', the comments on slashdot articles about the PS3 lead me to believe that games for that system are extremely-challenging-at-best to pirate. Is that true?

      -iLok seems to be holding up pretty well; a few apps have been cracked, but it's no an app-by-app basis instead of a system-wide crack.

      -Torq and Serato both have proprietary hardware that's used to enable all the features of the applications, and I haven't seen cracks for either that enable them to use generic ASIO sound cards.

      -This one is pure speculation, but I'm sure that there are extremely high-cost, industry specific applications that are DRM'd and haven't been cracked. I'm sure Boeing doesn't use AutoCAD to design airplanes. I'm sure ConEdison doesn't use off-the-shelf software to regulate electricity output across Manhattan.

      A bunch of half-examples? yes. Do they half-work? I'd say so.

    29. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You have a funny definition of "fucked". I'd PREFER that they stop releasing their garbage on PC. It would clear the way for good games from good developers that tend to get buried by all the money and hype that these huge corporations throw around.

    30. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 0, Troll

      So again I ask why any person should sympathize with a thing.

      They shouldn't. Unless they want sympathy in return.

      Should they just shut up and silently take it like good little consumers?

      No. Keep causing trouble for Ubisoft until they learn that making PC versions of their games is just a pointless way to lose money and get Internet hate-campaigns started against them.

      Soon, Ubisoft will learn their lesson and go console-only. Some other publishers have already learned this, but Ubisoft is apparently giving the PC one last chance.

    31. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Plekto · · Score: 1

      Will their shareholders feel the same way when Ubisoft titles have the reputation of being flaky, hard to play, and prone to technical malfunction?

      Ubisoft actually makes decent enough games that function well once the DRM is removed. Steam requires them to remove it all and the titles that you can order via Steam run fine and don't mess up your system.

      The issue is that Ubisoft is run by people who actually still believe the nonsense of the 1980s about piracy and how to combat it - ie - a bigger bat. They are essentially doing the modern day equivalent of those code books and look-up wheels that were printed on special paper. It just serves to make everyone angry.

      Here's the deal, though. They never *ever* will change. The President of the company is one of those asshats who will never change his mind about anything as long as he's making money doing what he's doing. We all know the personality type. And how pointless it is to even try to talk to them. To his dying day, he will believe that he can win versus piracy and that he is free to use any method at his disposal to accomplish it.

      Also, the DRM is not a simple check like Steam and other services go through, but it's rootkit-level stuff that's actually harder to remove than most viruses. One game that I removed a year or so ago was particularly aggressive in that it would replicate itself just like a virus. I had to physically yank the drive and drop in in an external case.

      Just say no to these guys. It isn't even about the economics or ethics any more. It's that if you want your machine to run properly, don't ever install anything from them on it.

    32. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by gilgongo · · Score: 1

      Will their shareholders feel the same way when Ubisoft titles have the reputation of being flaky, hard to play, and prone to technical malfunction?

      Well, it worked for AOL until they sold out, didn't it? In business, there is no real "forever".

      --
      "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
    33. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by mindwhip · · Score: 1

      What is needed is a class action lawsuit for fraud/contract/mis-selling/false advertising/something (IANAL so have no idea what would work!) that really hits Ubisoft in the wallet... it seems that hitting their cash flow will be the only way to make them sit up and take notice...

      --
      [The Universe] has gone offline.
    34. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Roogna · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, just don't buy OR steal. Don't use Ubisoft products at all! Sheesh people, stop trying to justify your piracy.

    35. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by LoneBoco · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's fine and all, but Ubisoft is a French company.

    36. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kneo24 · · Score: 1

      Your whole position seems to be shifting the blame entirely on the consumer here, why? Obviously it's the consumers fault for complaining about buying a product, expecting it to work, and then it not working as it was advertised to do so. The problem clearly isn't Ubisoft here. No. They did nothing wrong.

    37. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 1

      Steam?

    38. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Worked with music stores, didn't it?

    39. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by node+3 · · Score: 1

      I don't hear a lot of sympathy in your post for Ubisoft either. Why should they care what you want if you don't care what they want?

      You're confusing cause and effect. I don't care about Ubisoft's desires specifically because they don't care about mine.

    40. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Customers are people who pay. And if they don't pay enough to cover the cost of the trouble they cause, then they're not worthwhile, are they?

      Hell, even the customers who did pay are being deemed not "worthwhile". That's the problem.

    41. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by icebraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Let me change that:

      No, its because there is a culture of piracy surrounding online music downloading. I remember back when I was in college, all my classmates were shocked that I paid for my mp3s.

      Yet, all major online music stores moved to DRM-free mp3s.

    42. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ubisoft isn't an American company.

    43. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by rxan · · Score: 1

      Something tells me that even if it was working correctly you'd still be complaining about it. Why is it necessary that the remove it and not just improve it? Do you have that much of a grudge against DRM, or do you just not want to pay for games?

    44. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by rockNme2349 · · Score: 5, Funny

      This DRM was designed, developed and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.

      --
      Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
    45. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's so easy to say until something you want comes out. For example, I don't buy video games often (last one was when Zelda:Twilight Princess was released), but when Starcraft II comes out, even if it has DRM, I am going to get it. Why? Because it is more important to me to play it now than it is to continue being able to play it in the future. I suspect a lot of people feel similarly.

      Actually it will probably be more like, "DRM? I'm not getting that, no way. Oh......it's Starcraft!! NO!!!!! ok fine just this once"

      --
      Qxe4
    46. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I get tired of people wanting things done for them without offering anything in return.

      Also, there are clearly two sides to every dispute, even when one side is wrong. These discussions on Slashdot end up being stupid because you guys don't seem to have the imagination to try to understand the reasons behind the decisions you don't like. A few posts in, the groupthink conclusion always turns out to be:

      "[Whoever] made [this decision] because they're morons and evil and they hate money and puppies and if they just did what we wish they would do, everything would have worked out great for everyone."

      And then you all wonder why the world is in such bad shape when you have all the answers to what everyone should do in every situation -- or at least every situation where you personally have something to gain.

    47. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TJamieson · · Score: 1

      Doesn't that, then, speak volumes about Ubisoft?

      --
      For the last time, PIN Number and ATM Machine are redundancies!
    48. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      *works in aerospace as a CAD/CAM draftsman; can answer authoritatively.

      BOEING uses Dassault Systemes Catia V5 R19, as of the time of this posting.

      It has been cracked and released on Pirate Bay as of R19 service pack 4.

      The crack in question exploits the server based authentication DLL, by replacing it with one that automagically returns "authenticated" for whatever license the local client is requesting. (thus, no authentication server is needed at all.)

      The name of the hacked file is called JS0GROUP.DLL

      A pirate installation of this sort provides the user with over 1 million dollars worth of CAD/CAM power, in equivalent licensing fees.

      (Catia is a modular "I can do just about anything, DAMNIT!" CAD/CAM/PLM package. It has workbenches for doing everything from sheetmetal design, to rapid prototyping, to designing skyscrapers, to designing and diagnosing plumbing/pipe routing, planning infrastructure and space requirements for industrial robots, and even electronics engineering. The pirate dll activates "ALL" workbenches.)

      Long story short: The DRM (Licensing server with expensive licenses required.) has been broken, and has been broken for quite some time.

    49. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Svippy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about Steam? I'd consider that a pretty successful DRM scheme too.

      --
      Clicked pie.
    50. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      According to TFA, if the DRM is similar, you *won't* be able to play it now, never mind the future if there are problems and the engineers are on holiday. Yet you can still play StarCraft even today. So what was your point again?

    51. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anamelech · · Score: 1

      Not making games for the PC to kill piracy isn't an approach to the issue. Case in point.

      Pirate Bay Xbox360 Titles

      If you look at the bottom, you'll notice that the page count goes all the way to 64(possibly further, but they cut you off at page 50 and tell you to search.)
      Piracy isn't reserved to the PC. Its just we're the only ones that take any flak for it.

    52. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Piracy is a very big problem on PCs. Piracy is a much smaller problem on the 360. Piracy is non-existent on the PS3.

      Pirates have also nearly killed the Sony PSP platform.

    53. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Keep causing trouble for Ubisoft until they learn that making PC versions of their games is just a pointless way to lose money and get Internet hate-campaigns started against them.

      Aww, isn't it cute? A console fanboy.

      Hark, listen to his plaintive cry "PC gaming is dead! Consoles ftw!".

      The fact is, Ubisoft wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't a significant return on investment from making a PC port of the game. PC gaming may not have the heft it once did, but it will continue to exist as long as there is a decent amount of money to be made.

      Now go back to sucking on your Wiimote.

    54. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "This is what happened with Spore,"

      No, that is not what happened with Spore/EA.

      I sued EA and they backed off.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    55. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think this has anything to do with theft. Ironically, if you were to steal a copy of the game (walk into a store, put it up your shirt, walk out), you'd still have the DRM, and as far as Ubisoft's servers are concerned, your copy will be entirely "legitimate".

      I think, however, that this topic is largely about copying. I'm not sure how any DRM system could impact actual theft, and I don't see anything in this one that even attempts to address it.

      Now, of course, you weren't trying to disingenuously equate copyright infringement with theft, were you? They're not the same thing. Copying something cannot by definition be theft. It can still be illegal, just like murder, rape, and extortion are illegal. But copyright infringement is not equivalent to any of those things either, and to use one of those terms instead of the proper ones because it sounds "more serious" is misunderstanding what theft is at best and deliberately dishonest at worst.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    56. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn. So I need to ditch AutoCad and move to this? Is the version on the free as in beer site got all the modules? Hot damn, a new program to DL, play with and learn how to use. And best of all, it is free like beer. But then again it should be, since I am not going to do anything commercial or even non-commercial other than fuck with it and figure out how to use it.

    57. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      True enough. I do think that with all the flagrant Monopoly money waving resulting in big corps outside the USA to adopt similar ethics and work standards.

      Quoting the CEO from 3rd quarter 08-09 sales report (bottom of the first page): "However, as some of our games did not meet the required quality levels to achieve their full potential they need more sales promotions than anticipated."

      Sounding pretty Americanized to me.

    58. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow, way to misunderstand what the parent was trying to say. As I understand it, one of the larger problems of DRM is that if the company providing the content one day folds (or maybe just switches DRM schemes), it's verly likely they won't bother unlocking what you bought. Suddenly you'll be locked out of potentially hundreds of dollars worth of music, video or software. It has happened.
      And your post pretty much adds to that pain. Cracking DRM has one long term benefit: it ensures that in a couple of years your content won't become a bunch of dead files, wasting hard drive space. Do you want to risk your money on content with (as of yet) unbroken DRM?

    59. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by sam0737 · · Score: 1

      Talking with Games, I think Blizzard's Warcraft III are on the par. It was released in 2002, and they still made patch a month ago, the online Battle.Net server still works and active. And I am still playing DotA there!

      Luckily that they removed the CD Check since one of the patch. I bet my CD isn't working but now I don't have cares, I have an ISO copy of that.

    60. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The American way of doing business is slash-n-burn anything and everything.

      Ubisoft is a French company.

    61. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're right, but it doesn't change anything. Pirating means someone cracked it and gave it away, so let's get a better lock on the door. whether it's true or whether they infer it doesn't matter.

      If everyone stopped buying, playing, and pirating DRM-infested titles for 1 month the industry would shit itself. We sold 0 titles? Oh then they must be downloading. No downloads? No activity on the servers at all? W-T-F? Let's get a new title out there with full-on advertising. No one bought it? W-T-F? OK, maybe let's look at this DRM thing.

      Won't happen, most people don't care and it's good enough. But at least be honest - yes, it tells them that, whether they infer it logically or not.

    62. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 1

      I get tired of people wanting things done for them without offering anything in return.

      I believe the customers did their part by paying for the game.

      Also, there are clearly two sides to every dispute, even when one side is wrong.

      Sure there is. There's the customer's side: "we bought a game that doesn't work" and there's Ubi's side: "you bought a game that doesn't work but we're trying to fix it ... when our support people aren't on vacation and when we aren't blaming you for posting in a forum that isn't an 'official support forum' even though we monitor and moderate it when we aren't on vacation".

      And then you all wonder why the world is in such bad shape when you have all the answers to what everyone should do in every situation -- or at least every situation where you personally have something to gain.

      Having an opinion or protecting our own self interest is the reason why the world is in such bad shape? Surely a soulless, faceless corporation that only acts in its own self interest is at least as much to blame as a customer who paid for a game that doesn't work. What did the customer actually do wrong besides expecting Ubi to provide the game that they advertised?

    63. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's not an American company, its French to the very core so your little rant is wasted.

    64. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I already had that impression from ubisoft...

    65. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about Steam? I'd consider that a pretty successful DRM scheme too.

      It's a DRM scheme that the huge majority of gamers are willing to tolerate. However, there have been games released on Steam that have had the DRM broken. But since a lot of gamers enjoy the multiplayer/achievement aspects of gaming, and since those are precisely the pieces that don't work with the cracked Steam games, you tend not to hear a lot about them.

    66. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Odd, American Air/Water is soo much nicer than many other countries I've visited. Been to China lately? There's a reason they wear masks there. Don't drink Mexican water. Say what you want about capitalism but it's made this country rich enough that we can afford to require out business to play nice with the environment. Many other countries don't have that luxury.

    67. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you get paid to spew this shit? Or are you really stupid as fuck?

    68. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Typing+Monkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      Steam store page for AC2 tells you that it has 3rd-party DRM and requires a permanent internet connection. Other titles on steam has this too.

    69. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      why in hell do people use flash to display documents on the net?
      why not pdf or html or even docx?

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    70. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by karnal · · Score: 1

      Why would downloading the game 4 or 5 times even count? It's not like there's some global counter out there that says "# of times pirated" as much as the game publishers would like you to believe.

      First choice - don't buy the game and/or buy other games. Second choice - pirate. Not necessarily condoned by yours truly, but eh, it's a choice.

      --
      Karnal
    71. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Plekto · · Score: 1

      Steam store page for AC2 tells you that it has 3rd-party DRM and requires a permanent internet connection. Other titles on steam has this too.

      ****
      Well, this is a change in Steam's policies(or they're just caving to UBIsoft here). UBIsoft is just simply not worth messing with.

      And my point before was that previous titles by Ubisoft that have had the DRM removed suddenly work pretty much like normal software. Sure, it has bugs and stuff, but nothing worse than the other guys. But add the DRM back into the equation and your computer suffers. It's just not worth it.

    72. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by ikono · · Score: 1

      A good portion of RLD/RZR/etc. games are steam rips.

      --
      Karma is for whores
    73. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Soon, Ubisoft will learn their lesson and go console-only. Some other publishers have already learned this, but Ubisoft is apparently giving the PC one last chance.

      Excellent. The demand for good pc games isn't going anywhere, so we'll just spend our money on a company that makes games that actually *work*.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    74. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      No, the PSP sucking balls and Sony's constant firmware revisions geared to take out PSPs that people hacked to do what they *want* to do (non-piracy-wise), thus ensuring continued ball-suckage is why the PSP platform is nearly dead.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    75. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      I believe the customers did their part by paying for the game.

      They have the right to expect a game in return.

      Some people seem to expect an unlimited amount of anything they could possibly ask for.

      Also, there are clearly two sides to every dispute, even when one side is wrong.

      Sure there is. There's the customer's side: "we bought a game that doesn't work" and there's Ubi's side: "you bought a game that doesn't work but we're trying to fix it ... when our support people aren't on vacation and when we aren't blaming you for posting in a forum that isn't an 'official support forum' even though we monitor and moderate it when we aren't on vacation".

      There you go. They're trying to fix it. But it's not soon enough or good enough or whatever. And why should anyone expect it ever will be? Why shouldn't everyone (or at least Ubisoft) cut their losses, offer a refund, and give up dealing with you?

      Having an opinion or protecting our own self interest is the reason why the world is in such bad shape?

      When you do it without regard to who gets hurt or any other consequences, then yes.

      And I pointed out that lack of regard right there in my original post, didn't I?

      Surely a soulless, faceless corporation that only acts in its own self interest is at least as much to blame as a customer who paid for a game that doesn't work.

      Really? Where is that acknowledgment that there could possibly be any blame for anyone besides Ubisoft? Is it in any of these posts on this topic?

      Also, random internet complaining is faceless and at least as soulless as any corporation.

    76. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by NetFusion · · Score: 1

      I know it doesn't matter to them, but I was really looking forward to AC2. I just got back from a trip to Italy and was enamored with the game's setting. I was all ready to pull the trigger on AC2 the moment it was offered. Hell I was also on a Steam binge in which I bought many games I still haven't played, and even some old ones I have no intention of playing in a fit of consumerism. But once I found out it was going to have online only DRM I was very disappointed and decide not to buy. I have a few games in my collection that are limited activations DRM that I am not too happy about but still bought them, but this new limit was just a bridge too far for me. I play most of my single player games offline in places with no internet connect. If I have an internet connection I tend to playing something multiplayer or just read on the web. When people like me who want their game, take pride in their legit game collection, are completely turned off by the delivery of a product, they have truly screwed up and lost the good faith of their customers. Ubisoft turned the potential buyer of one of their games into someone who will never buy any of their games. Snatching defeat from the mouth of victory.

    77. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Nice? Either it's out of sight for the majority of Americans (mountain top removal) or it's out of our country and fucking up some other one. How many companies willingly try to lower their pollution? How many more are brought into compliance kicking and screaming? How many more are in violation but tied punitive measures up in court? Recent example: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/massey-deadly-mine/

      And on that second note, pollution doesn't stop at borders. http://geology.com/nasa/monitoring-pollution-by-satellite.shtml

    78. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Excellent. The demand for good pc games isn't going anywhere, so we'll just spend our money on a company that makes games that actually *work*.

      Why do you assume there are enough non-pirates to pay enough to fund game development?

      Maybe those new companies will charge $75 instead of $50 so that the few non-pirates on the PC will allow them to make a profit. I'm sure there would be no complaints about something like that.

      There is a lot of money for successful game developers. The money comes mostly from console sales. Why would the most talented game developers spend their valuable time making games for PCs when they could make a lot more creating games for consoles?

    79. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Big companies are all the same, especially if most of their customers are from the US.

    80. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by shoehornjob · · Score: 1

      Successful is a very loaded word. I bought COD MW2 instead of pirating it so from the developers standpoint it was successful. They were unsuccessful in convincing me to buy any other Steam games because of the shitty experience I had with their product. This is where they will fail. It may take a while becasue people are strangely tolerant of this type of shit but they will fail.

      --
      "We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
    81. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Mascot · · Score: 1

      It may be nicer than many countries, but it isn't even near head of the class. I've been in a number of US states, and the water generally reeks coming out of the tap. I can't bring myself to even brush my teeth in it.

      I'm sure it's fine as far as micro organisms are concerned. But what they've been replaced with doesn't make for a very appetizing drink.

      On topic: Ubisoft won't change their minds on this unless there's a radical drop in revenues. Ironically, if the reviews are to be trusted, Ubisoft has put out a few games lately that have revived their respective franchises. The increased sales from the good reviews could mean a loss of sales due to the DRM might not even be noticed.

      I have to admit, I don't think I care all that much. There are so many games out there without this kind of DRM to choose from. And if there wasn't, there are always other hobbies.

    82. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      No, the PSP sucking balls and Sony's constant firmware revisions geared to take out PSPs that people hacked to do what they *want* to do (non-piracy-wise), thus ensuring continued ball-suckage is why the PSP platform is nearly dead.

      Because that's what game developers care about?

      "We would have published games for the PSP, but Sony issued a firmware update that disabled my homebrew. So screw that."

    83. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The eggs that get smashed should be the publishers to use DRM.

      Stop giving them your money. Boycott shitty customer treatment. It's not like you need their product to stay alive; you can do without it!

    84. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Alphathon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would say the only real way to send them the message is to litterally send them a message. Don't buy the game, and tell them that you didn't because of the DRM. That way, they can't say "look, that person didn't buy it - he must have pirated it" and they can't say "people aren't buying it - we didn't market it enough" - it's the only way the loss of a sale can have any meaningful impact and can't be attributed to something else.

    85. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole problem is that it's fundamentally broken. Even if Ubisoft were able to keep their servers running, you would still need to be able to connect to them to play the game. That's just the way of the world for multiplayer games... but these are single-player games, and people are being locked out of their games due to shoddy connections, dialup, or even just in a remote place (such as an airplane, train, or station)

    86. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If they stopped porting yet another Madden sequel, then good (yes, I know Madden is console only, but it is a good example). That means that there will be a vacuum in the PC market and indie game companies, people who make games which have no DRM (perhaps a CD key to access multiplayer stuff at the most), and whose offerings are original and high quality will fill the void.

      I'm all for seeing another Origin Systems coming to be who makes offerings which are truly original and entertaining, and not just another FPS with yet another type of undead, alien or Schutzstaffel officer at the business end of your weapon. There are some decently original concepts, but the big game companies are mainly into sequel-itis.

      Then the big companies had a game that could be outstanding in its own right, but the game was so rushed, it ended up being mediocre at best, although almost anyone who played it realized that given 3-6 more months, it would have been a hit by itself.

      Don't forget one of the the biggest factors: Consoles are popular, but virtually every household, business, and dorm room has a PC. Since PCs come with some type of 3D hardware, it isn't too difficult to write a decent game on the platform with good graphics. Some indie vendors have done pretty good things that run on very low hardware specs. Torchlight is a good example of this. Even with piracy factored in, which can be throttled by having CD-keys to access the multiplayer servers (similar to how Neverwinter Nights 1 did things), a decent game would bring in a lot of cash.

    87. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      OK, maybe let's look at this DRM thing.

      Their current piracy-related claims aren't grounded in reality, I doubt that would change if the total rate of pirated copies was zero.

    88. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by init100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What worked with music stores and DRM were customers complaining and significantly raising the stores' support costs. After some time this caused many music stores to put pressure on the music labels to remove the DRM, which took some time, but finally the labels agreed.

    89. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 1

      They already sell cans of breathable O2 in the truckstops. As an alertness aid. Cost $13 for a 16 oz can.

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    90. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by jnork · · Score: 2, Interesting

      *scratches head*

      I've had excellent luck with Steam. Not perfect, but I very, very rarely have problems with their protection scheme. I get more game crashes than DRM problems. If I lose my connection to Steam the game lets me keep playing in multiplayer mode, I just might be missing some features (TF2 loadout), and it re-synchronizes after I reconnect and gives me credit for whatever I've accomplished.

      I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of the community but I hear very little about their awful DRM scheme.

      You didn't specify if your bad experience was with Steam or with COD. If you didn't like the game, or had particular problems with it, can't answer for that, sorry. Never played it myself. If you had problems with Steam I'd say you're in the minority.

      I can't really get from one person having problems with the platform to everybody leaving en mass. If anything Valve seems to have found a very good balance between copy protection and user experience. I can't speak for everybody, but to me it's transparent enough that I can live with the occasional glitch. I tolerate it because it's tolerable. MHO, YMMV.

      --
      Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
    91. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by init100 · · Score: 1

      That pretty much explains their stance on DRM.

    92. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be happy if Ubisoft went console-only. Let the little guys who have games worth playing and who don't treat their customers like thieves take their spot.

      One last chance? It is Ubisoft who is blowing their last chance with their more and more intrusive DRM systems. The pirates end up making off with the game, while the legal end users are the ones who are left farting mayonnaise if their router hiccups.

    93. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by hitmark · · Score: 1

      partially owned by EA...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    94. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kneo24 · · Score: 1

      I get tired of people wanting things done for them without offering anything in return.

      All bullshit aside, all they want is their game to work. 3 weeks in and they can't even play it. If you paid for something, wouldn't you expect it to work? They already offered their money for the game and the services that are required to play said game. What more do you feel is expected from the every day average joe user?

    95. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Modern Warfare 2 says otherwise.

    96. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      All bullshit aside, all they want is their game to work. 3 weeks in and they can't even play it.

      I don't actually think this is true. It could be, but I looked around and it doesn't seem to be.

      I'm sure it probably doesn't work perfectly for everyone all the time. The servers were hit with DDoS attacks. And it's a PC game, so there are any number of reasons it might fail for someone.

      What more do you feel is expected from the every day average joe user?

      If they're only asking for their game to work, then nothing. If they're demanding DRM-free games, what do they have to offer in return for this demand being granted? Why should anyone listen to such a demand, let alone consider it?

    97. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Pteraspidomorphi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree. Almost all games I play these days are either on the PC or on the Wii; Most of them independent or small studio games. There is no interesting games guide like the list of nominees for the IGF awards.

    98. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF is this idiot babbling about? What are you referring to when you say people seem to "expect an unlimited amount of anything they could possibly ask for." Vague. If i had bought one of their games, your right, I do deserve a game, but let me quantify, I deserve a GAME I CAN PLAY. Anyone with half a brain knows the entire DRM argument is moot, which is what makes it worse, they are trying to fix a problem they created and one that can't be fixed, and by doing so, are screwing the only people who DID PAY. Yes, lets go over that again. Pirate = Able to play. (well settlers 7 hasnt been cracked yet but AC2 has) and Paying Customer = Not able to play (sometimes) and generally screwed. If this was another game developer, and the problems were due to something technical, but not due to draconian DRM schemes, there would be a lot less flak. Gameplay issue + DRM will always = more negative publicity from the online crowd. End of story. I don;t know, but eithe ryou are an idiot, a troll, or you work for Ubisoft.

    99. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by RubberChainsaw · · Score: 5, Funny

      That explains why their games only work 4 days out of the week...

      --
      I welcome our new 99% overlords.
    100. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2

      It can still be illegal, just like murder, rape, and extortion are illegal. But copyright infringement is not equivalent to any of those things either, and to use one of those terms instead of the proper ones because it sounds "more serious" is misunderstanding what theft is at best and deliberately dishonest at worst.

      I disagree. Ubisoft has been raping their customers for some time now with a DRM scheme that is little short of extortion, and I think it's high time that we murder their sales figures by spending our gaming dollars with companies that don't steal our time.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    101. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Big companies are all the same, especially if most of their customers are from the US.

      What? It's not even an American outfit and we're still to blame?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    102. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by daver00 · · Score: 1

      Steam is the perfect compromise if you ask me, mostly because Valve are willing to adopt a reasonable pricing model. Actually all my steam games are either Valve or Indie, and I *ahem* "own" one or two steam titles which are certainly not on steam, so you can't really say it is succeeding at stopping anything.

      Honestly, go listen to Gabe Newell's opinions on this: He literally said in a recent interview that he believes piracy is not a problem of people being unwilling to purchase games, it is a problem of them not accepting the price point. I can say that for me, this is EXACTLY the case. I bought Orange Box for $30. For that I got 5 games, one of which (TF2) has had ongoing support, new content and major changes constantly, for free, since its inception. THAT is how games should be sold. They are just not worth the $100 they charge (Australian here), no way in hell are they worth that much.

    103. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've had excellent luck with Steam

      Me too. I think Valve Corporation is a. not as boneheaded greedy as Ubisoft and b. is more competent technically. Yes, there's just as much potential for abuse, but so far I've not had any grief with Steam at all. Certainly not when compared to the likes of Ubisoft. As always, if you buy into a DRM-laden content-distribution system, expect that at some point your "investment" may become worthless. It's the nature of the beast, and I wish more people would understand that. It's not such a big deal with a video game, I suppose. However, if I spent a lot of money on e-books (say, reference materials that I need) and I found out one day that my privileges had been revoked, I'd be pissed. And if you're involved with DRM, especially online DRM, that's what it amounts to. A privilege granted by a corporation. Consequently, for anything that's remotely important to me, I want nothing to do with DRM.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    104. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You are one serious retard. Every single post you've made in this topic has been an endless stream of nonsense.

      Why do you assume there are enough non-pirates to pay enough to fund game development?

      I mean honestly. What the fuck is wrong with you? You know full well that PC-only games get released with regularity. You know that means that there is sufficient funding. Yet you continue with your misdirections.

      Something is really wrong with your posts. I don't know if it's naivity, or in-company groupthink, or if you are simply a PR for Ubisoft. But in all cases you are absolutely full of shit.

    105. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think this has anything to do with theft.

      I think, however, that this topic is largely about copying.

      Close, this has absolutely nothing to do with preventing copyright infringement. They know that they'll never get pirates to buy their games.

      What this is, is an attempt to stop the second hand game market. By allowing only one account per code, they've effectively taken away your first sale doctrine rights.

    106. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by awshidahak · · Score: 1

      There's a pdf download link on the right if you'd like to use that.

      And yes, using flash to display documentation is pretty frickin' stupid.

    107. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, but I generally don't want "pretty good things that run on low hardware specs". There are already plenty of games for folks satisfied with that... Nexuiz for one example. Even a graphics whore or "content tourist" like me had to admit Nexuiz is a blast, after giving it a chance for a whole 5 minutes. It's multi platform and can be compiled locally too. They are probably at the limits of what they can do with that old Quake engine. (You can only sew a limited number of arms on an old octopus)

      I'm mostly into gaming for the graphics, and indie developers without budgets to have studios stocked with professional graphics artists and equipment can't really do it. No offense to people who work really hard with what they have and do a great job with it, I do appreciate that effort, but I'm spoiled. I didn't spend 2 grand on PC hardware to play "world of goo" or similar.

      I have certainly lowered the bar for what I'll tolerate in terms of DRM (I used to hate even one time "product activation" but had to learn to live with it. Then, I even started to tolerate Steam because I realized it also came with convenience), but I won't tolerate what Ubisoft is doing. I was looking forward to Assassin's Creed 2 but I have not and will not purchase it, or anything from Ubisoft ever again. I used to like Ubisoft, because their games were relatively hassle free.

      If the day ever comes that game studios finally rip the teats off the cow they are milking and stop supporting the PC platform, I envision hardware vendors like ATI and Nvidia sponsoring some game development. Something like that happening could give a good indie studio the budget they need to make something really nice that could make money for everyone, and pave the way for future titles.

    108. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by yanos · · Score: 1

      That doesn't mean shit. You don't get 5 weeks vacation per year when you work at Ubisoft outside of France. Ubisoft is a corporation and all it care about is the profit margin and pleasing the shareholders. Everybody is doing business the closer possible to 'the american way' nowadays.

    109. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      They modded you informative, but you deserved a "+1 Humorously Insightful" ;)

    110. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 3, Informative

      Steam requires them to remove it all

      What? As far as I know, Valve has never required a third-party dev to remove their DRM before selling their games on Steam. For example, the Steam version of Bioshock (the first one) kept its SecuROM DRM - even though it didn't have a disc to check.

      Do you have any examples? (I don't mean examples of third-party devs voluntarily removing their own DRM for the Steam version without being asked, I mean examples of Valve explicitly telling a third party they had to remove their DRM before they could sell their game on Steam.)

    111. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by mister_playboy · · Score: 1

      Lets try a little role playing.

      No need to role play, seeing as the scenario you describe actually happened.

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
    112. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Now, of course, you weren't trying to disingenuously equate copyright infringement with theft, were you? They're not the same thing. Copying something cannot by definition be theft.

      I've made this argument several times before...

      When you infringe a copyright, it's not the copies you're stealing, it's the value of the copyright. The copyright's value comes from (surprise) the demand for the product. Copyright holders exchange, portion by portion, the value of their copyright for legal tender, until the copyright's value is spent, and the market reaches saturation.

      By downloading a copy of a work that you had any remote chance of purchasing (this is much harder to determine than people give it credit for), you are detracting from demand and hence the value of the copyright, without the requisite trade of money to the copyright holder. You have gained value through having a movie/album/game that you like, and the copyright holder has lost value through the value of its copyright. You paid nothing for this value, and the copyright holder received nothing from this detraction from their property's value.

      I have no issue whatsoever with calling it theft.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    113. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Problem: Myself and many others have actually refrained from buying their games. I haven't even pirated them (because a full, working crack hasn't been released for Assassin's Creed 2). I even wrote them a hand-written email in protest of the DRM. It isn't helping. They just kind of assume that everyone who doesn't buy their game is a pirate.

    114. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      I didn't buy it, haven't yet pirated it, and wrote them a damn email. It hasn't gotten the DRM taken out despite untold numbers of people doing so.

    115. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dude, I completely agree with you, but choose your battles wisely. All the groupthink is asking for is, if not a DRM-free copy of the game, then at the very least, a well-maintained working service. The latter is not an unreasonable request if you've already paid for the game.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    116. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      If everyone stopped buying, playing, and pirating DRM-infested titles for 1 month the industry would shit itself. We sold 0 titles? Oh then they must be downloading. No downloads? No activity on the servers at all? W-T-F? Let's get a new title out there with full-on advertising. No one bought it? W-T-F? OK, maybe let's look at this DRM thing.

      And if everyone stopped buying fast food, stopped watching movies, and went on strike for better labor conditions we could have the capitalist pigs trembling in their boots!

      Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

    117. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kijori · · Score: 1

      Now, of course, you weren't trying to disingenuously equate copyright infringement with theft, were you?

      In this case I'm not really sure what's so disingenuous about it. I know all the arguments, but if you look at this particular example - someone who was going to buy it deciding to pirate it instead - it has more to make it seem like theft than to suggest that it isn't.

      Look, for example, at the respective outcomes:

      Theft:

      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money

      Piracy:

      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money

      It used to be the case that theft would mean Ubisoft losing a physical disc, but in the era of digital distribution can that still be taken as a necessary requirement for theft?

      I know that there are technical requirements for something to be theft, but I'm responding more to your accusation that the GP was "disingenuous" than whether or not it was theft. Theft, in this instance, doesn't seem to be a wholly inappropriate metaphor.

    118. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generalize much?

    119. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Just for reference, iTunes and WMA DRM are easily defeated by using a virtual machine with modified drivers to steal the digital bits on the way to 'the hardware'.

      Not your typical definition of 'cracking' it, and technically it isn't broken imo, but its certainly been bypassed.

      Hulu and something else I can't think off are being ripped this way as well.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    120. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Define successful?

      As in 'people are okay with using it'

      or 'it protects the content from being copied'

      The first may be true, the second couldn't be further from the truth.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    121. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      I get more game crashes than DRM problems.

      Did it ever occur to you that those crashes could be related to DRM issues?

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    122. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      If they're demanding DRM-free games, what do they have to offer in return for this demand being granted? Why should anyone listen to such a demand, let alone consider it?

      How about actually buying the game? Life is to short to waste time fighting with nanny software for stuff you already own.

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    123. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      -CSS on DVD's has been cracked and anyone who knows to look for any number of apps employing DeCSS can bypass it, but it's enough that commercial apps like Roxio and Nero won't do it, and a search for copying DVDs will yield 1,001 apps that either don't live up to their promises or install malware, so while it's possible, I'll give it half-credit because Joe Sixpack will have to do a decent amount of research to figure out how to do it properly.

      I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. CSS was cracked forever ago and I've there have been t-shirts with the DeCSS code for 10 years. CSS was designed to prevent high-quality rips of movies being created from DVDs and then spread onto the internet. I think a quick search for "dvd rip" on the torrent index of your choice will show you how futile it was.

    124. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by haruharaharu · · Score: 1

      How about "we would have published on the PSP, but Sony spent so much time dicking around with homebrew devs that they never got around to fixing bugs/adding supporting APIs/etc."

      --
      Reboot macht Frei.
    125. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume there are enough non-pirates to pay enough to fund game development?

      Because, oh, I don't know, there's still companies out there selling pc games? EA even dialed back on the DRM and went the DLC route to get more sales. Besides, we've already seen that games developed for Xbox can be ported to the pc or vice versa.

      Yes, there is a generation of kids out there that will pretty much download anything they like. But considering they don't have money to spend anyway, it's not as though they would have bought it in the first place. There is, however, a generation of people in their 20's, 30's and 40's that have more than enough disposable income to pay for pc games. On the other hand, what we also have is memories of being able to do with our personal computers whatever we damn well pleased, and that doesn't jive well with the direction Ubisoft is taking.

      I spent the full price on dragon age, mass effect 2 and the available DLC for both. Why? Because I considered it a worthy investment in a product that is value for money. I did not spend money on GTA 4, nor will I do so on Ubisoft products as long as they keep up this ridiculous scheme. I'll just buy 50 bucks worth of indie games instead.

      What's with that axe you're grinding in this article anyway? Do you work for Ubisoft? You seem pro-DRM to the extent that you're slightly starting to foam at the mouth, you may want to have that looked at.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    126. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by leety · · Score: 2, Insightful

      had their DRM been foolproof.

      No such animal. I would think that DRM programmers more than anyone would know its like a battle against terminal illness. You can deter and delay, but the house always wins.

    127. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      That's what Ubisoft has said they'll do. They're going to "evolve and improve" their service.

    128. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      No, that's why people stopped buying the system. Shrinking market = fewer publishers concerned with distributing games for the system.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    129. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by slimjim8094 · · Score: 2, Informative

      To be fair, that game has very little to do with Steam. Pick up a copy of Team Fortress 2 or Counter-Strike: Source (Valve games, they own and operate Steam) and get back to me if you have any DRM problems.

      I've literally *NEVER HEARD* of anybody having Steam DRM issues aside from the general philosophical one with the concept. Literally NOT ONCE have I heard of somebody having a problem with Valve's specific implementation. But again, COD MW2 uses their own DRM.

      Look, I'm completely against DRM. What's with the cognitive dissonance then? Steam/Valve's DRM isn't one-sided. It's not so much DRM as running the game like a service. If I do a reinstall of my OS, get a new computer, or even go to a friend's house I can log on to Steam, download all my games, and be playing in an hour or so. No trouble. I can even have my (encrypted) games on literally dozens of computers, as long as I'm only playing online with one at a time. It's not even too much trouble to play offline on all of them simultaneously. It works offline (to anyone having trouble: go offline while online at least once, and it'll be fine later). And when the Mac version comes out (supposedly later this month), I'll get the ports without needing to spend a cent.

      DRM sucks largely because they take away rights I used to have, while breaking my computer. And the legitimate customers have more trouble than the pirates.
      Steam's DRM is the opposite: I get an unlimited license to any game I've purchased, across any and all computers, as long as only one is used at a time. It doesn't impact my computer in the slightest. And while there are noSteam versions of most games, you can't connect to VAC servers, so you're flooded with cheaters.

      Admittedly a good bit of this depends on Valve not being dicks. But they have such tremendous good will at the moment, and a long history of respecting their customers, that I can't imagine them changing their stance.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    130. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      How about not kicking your customers in the balls, how about that? Name me ONE other industry that goes so far out of their way to piss off and shit on PAYING customers, just one. You can't, can you? I honestly think the major game corps like Ubisoft want to kill off PC gaming, but can't just outright say so for fear of pissing off their stockholders, so they treat their customers like dogshit and when enough have said "screw this" they'll say "See? Not enough people play PC games to be worth the cost." and then just get rid of their PC gaming division.

      We aren't asking for much here folks, just a working product that doesn't make us jump through flaming hoops just to use the damned thing, and to be treated like actual customers instead of dirty beggars. That isn't too much to ask for, is it? A few companies selling box sets, like The Orange Box and EA MOH Anniversary Edition seem to get it, and give us decent value for our money. Good Old Games seems to get it, giving us extras like soundtracks and giving us DRM free games with as easy downloads and no hassles, so why shouldn't we demand similar treatment from Ubisoft?

      But yet again we see a game corp screwing over their paying customers while the pirates laugh their ass off. Games like AC2 are already cracked and all over P2P networks like Emule, so it isn't hurting the pirates a damned bit, just those that actually broke out their wallets and dared to pay for the game. And we all know that even basic CD checks will take care of Bubba making copies of his disc, so it isn't to stop casual piracy either. The only thing that makes sense to me is a back handed way for corps like Ubisoft to kill their PC gaming division without having their stockholders have a screaming shitfit. Why else would you go so far out of your way to mistreat your own customers?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    131. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by neghvar1 · · Score: 1

      Probably because Steam has an offline mode in which people do not have to be on-line to play. That goes against Ubisoft's policy of constant internet connection. So since Steam DRM policy does not comply with Ubisoft's, Ubisoft includes theirs. Thankfully Steam is up front about it and not trying to hide that fact

    132. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by rts008 · · Score: 1

      ...but the bottom line is that I'm unaware of an app that will unlock a song rented from Napster To Go if I download one today.

      While not an app, a common workaround has existed for these 'rent a song' subscription services for many years.

      Record via 'line in' on your pc, save as .wav, transcode to mp3 or whatever. The source can be anything with a speaker/headphone jack, including the recording pc itself.

      Not perfect, but it works, and is Stupid Simple*...and tedious.(without scripting and some batch processing)

      * YMMV, but any computer literate person should be capable of this.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    133. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Look, for example, at the respective outcomes:

      Theft:

      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money

      Piracy:

      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money

      Not everything that has the same outcome is the same thing. Take, for example, the following two scenarios:

      Someone suffers a stuck accelerator, loses control of their vehicle, and strikes someone, killing them:

      -Victim is dead.

      Someone points a gun at that person and pulls the trigger, killing them:

      -Victim is dead.

      Yet, despite the same outcome, only one of these acts is a murder. It would be absurd to say they both are, just because the outcome was the same in both cases.

      By your means of definition (similarity of outcome), a secondhand sale would also be a theft: the purchaser has the game, and the publisher got no money for the sale. Yet this would seem absurd, at least to me.

      Theft requires a physical deprivation. That's the critical point. If someone steals my bicycle, it is theft because they now have it, I did not give them permission to have it (both true of copyright infringement), and I now do not have it (untrue of copyright infringement).

      All of those conditions must be met for a theft to occur. To say that the "deprivation" is in not a loss but a lack of gain (a "deprivation" of a hypothetical profit which may or may not have occurred) is to stretch the definition until it screams, and I don't think it at all holds, as it results in an absurdity (secondhand sales also being "theft").

      If someone could somehow make a copy of my bike, rather than purchasing one, it may not be something bike manufacturers would like too much. But it wouldn't be a theft.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    134. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      See the other post where I said I get tired of people demanding things and failing to grasp that there are two sides to every dispute.

      I don't think people should heap hatred on a company in one breath and ask for that company to treat them with respect in the next.

      I also want DRM schemes to succeed so that customers can access content and pirates can't. Then game developers will make more money, which means more games and better games for us to play.

    135. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a bridge I'd like to sell you....

    136. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by masmullin · · Score: 1

      Generally.

    137. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      And amazingly, if you insert a Blizzard disc into a Mac, you don't get your Mac telling you "what's an .EXE?"

      And you don't get directed to their store either to purchase the separate Mac version (*cough* EA)

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    138. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by the_macman · · Score: 1

      See here's the thing. If piracy rates dropped to 0 tomorrow, DRM wouldn't vanish. Sales wouldn't sky rocket. You'd still hear execs screaming at the top of their lungs that piracy is killing the industry and harsher DRM is needed. The end state of DRM is control, not piracy. Ideally publishers want a closed platform (see consoles), where they can force micro-payments for DLC and updates. Also making you pay multiple times for the same product (see iTunes). So fuck you and your DRM. Stop fucking over the legitimate customer and focus on writing better games etc etc etc. Piracy will ALWAYS exist. Get over it and work around it. You can't control it.

    139. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Because, as shown by the likes of Microsoft and Walmart, longevity of a DRM server is not based on the longevity of the company running it. If it's not profitable enough, they'll pull the plug and you're shit out of luck. ...unless someone was nice enough to crack it, that is.

    140. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The American way of doing business is quickly becoming everyone's way of doing business.

    141. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because of this you and others will be expert on this software. This actually gives the company an advantage in sales because a business will have to buy it as its the standard and a hacked stolen version would be audited real quick. Microsoft knows this and knows this well (there was an add talking about how the new business man sits in his cubical at the 1st day on the job and instantly knows the computer system and IMs his coworker) thats why M$ autochecks out their DRM in the windows update and allows you to use daz loader on win7. They want you to pirate it!!! Its just if the DRM works and they get a sucker to actually pays for it thats just extra cash.

    142. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      That's just it, though. It doesn't matter how great the game is if you can't play it. And Ubisoft's "vital"-to-the-success-of-their-games product, will quickly become the nail-in-the-coffin-of-their-company as word of mouth spreads that the game was awesome when you could actually play it. Look at Microsoft Vista and how word of mouth killed it. Microsoft actually fixed things good enough in Windows Vista but had to rebrand the OS as Windows 7 to make any sales.

    143. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by tsm_sf · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As a discussion on the Middle East lengthens, the probability of someone juxtaposing Zionists with Nazis approaches 1.

      Have you thought your sig through to its logical conclusion?

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    144. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Clearly the game was a runaway success, but the DRM was just not strong enough.

      This is why I both don't buy and don't pirate games with excessive DRM.

      It's too bad, I think a few of the games held interesting promise.

      I deliberately seek out games without DRM to support.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    145. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      and if they REALLY want to send a message, put their piracy statistics through the roof. Download the game 4 or 5 times.

      This is quite possibly the worst suggestion ever. If you're unhappy with the DRM, don't buy the game. The issues with DRM are well known, and if the game sells zero and Ubisoft are already aware of the issues with DRM, someone somewhere will make the connection.

      Pirate it 4 or 5 times? Are you serious? I'm not sure how this is 'Interesting'. At least it's not 'Insightful'. 'Idiotic' is more applicable. All this means is that Ubisoft see that the game is highly popular, but that they just need to work on making the DRM tighter to reduce piracy. In fact, one person pirating it 4 or 5 times seperately makes them think they are losing even more money than they are, and would make the DRM work even harder. I don't understand how this thought entered your head and you didn't immediately dismiss it.

      If you can't live without the game, buy it, and then download the crack by itself. Gamecopyworld is usually good for this. Even if you've bought it, downloading the whole game just for the crack is self-defeating anyway.

    146. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Steam requires them to remove it

      Firstly, this is utterly wrong.

      Secondly, who amongst the Steam customers cares about DRM? You're buying games through a full blown DRM platform that just happens to have a checkout system integrated into it.

      Steam customers caring about DRM seems a little strange to me.

    147. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of-course it was, atheists would never use DRM

    148. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Bob+MacSlack · · Score: 1

      By your logic, anyone calling out Ubisoft for their DRM is contributing to the loss of value of the copyright and thus are thieves.

    149. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The people don't even have to play it. They just have to buy it, and the bad reviews or complaints can be buried in Google or compensated for with advertising, paid reviews, astroturfing, etc. It is one of those situations where you can just keep throwing money at it to make it a non-issue.

    150. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Patspeed · · Score: 1

      Ubisoft is only succeeding in shooting itself in the foot with its ludicrous copy protection scheme. Draconian DRM schemes only succeed at pushing away honest customers and losing sales for the company. Those that are willing to pirate a game will continue to do so, and if they somehow they couldn’t most still would not buy the game. Copy protection only satisfies the paranoid mind, and fills the pockets of those companies that are all too willing to create the software tools to take advantage of the situation. In reality copy protection doesn’t work, it didn’t 20 years ago and it still doesn’t today.

    151. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "We sold 0 titles? Oh then they must be downloading. No downloads? No activity on the servers at all? W-T-F? Let's get a new title out there with full-on advertising. No one bought it? W-T-F? OK, maybe let's look at what our bought politicians are doing in office. Surely we can use this as a valid bailout or spread fear that the hackers have found out an entirely new way to pirate the game that we are unable to track with our current means. This should help drive through the bills we wrote last year to be able to get a person's identity from their ISP or even disconnect them from the internet without court approval or oversight at long last. All that's left is to get a mandatory monthly fee out of anyone who makes less than 50,000 dollars per year - which will of course provide a loophole for us and our legal dogs in office. Now get back down to the R&D department and get them to strengthen that DRM!"

      (A more realistic outcome compared to your utopian view.)

    152. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by log0n · · Score: 1

      Nope.

      "All of those conditions must be met for a theft to occur. To say that the "deprivation" is in not a loss but a lack of gain (a "deprivation" of a hypothetical profit which may or may not have occurred) is to stretch the definition until it screams, and I don't think it at all holds, as it results in an absurdity (secondhand sales also being "theft")."

      Theft is when there isn't a 1:1 corresponding transaction where a financial (or similar) exchange is required.

      Ubi gets paid for the initial - their possible deprivation is satisfied.

      I sell you my copy of the game. I no longer have my copy and my possible deprivation has been satisfied.

      You steal my copy of my game. I no longer have my copy AND I have been deprived of compensation.

      I give you my copy of my game. No deprivation to be concerned with as a financial wasn't required.

    153. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Zaphodox · · Score: 1

      "The consumer shouldn't need to sympathize with a company. It's not a person. It's a thing." Actually you will find out that Corporations (such as UBI soft) are legal PERSONS. They are NOT things. This was a piece of Machiavellian law introduced last century to give corporations carte blanche to do what ever they hell they liked. As they are persons criminal proceeedings are brought against the corporation not the board of directors etc. Also bare in mind that a corporations employees are legally constrained to fuck-you-in-the-ass IF it can provide an increased profit for stock holders. It is ILLEGAL for a corporation to knowingly not pursue an action that would increase profit.

    154. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whooosh

    155. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Tukz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course we (Steam customers) care about DRM.
      Sure, Steam is itself a DRM system, but an acceptable one.

      The DRM Ubisoft is using is one a completely different scale than Steam's DRM

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    156. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh, I'm gonna try to get a job at Boeing next year, if I can tell them I'm familiar with their CAD suite (just ignore the details of how I came to be familiar with their CAD suite), will that help my chances of getting a job?

      If so, then piracy has helped me (get a job), it's helped Boeing (less training I have to go through, less money+time wasted on me before I become profitable for them), and it's profitable for Dassault because they have a corporate consumer that's willing to spend tons of money to get me a legitimate version of their CAD suite.

      If I hadn't pirated Catia, I would have less of a chance at ever using it, and everybody loses.

      If piracy is a win-win-win situation, why are we trying to stop individuals from doing it? Big businesses are always going to want legitimate copies, and full support for their software, so that's where the money should be made.

    157. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theft:
      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money
      Piracy:
      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money

      That is not correct.
      Sale: User has the game disc and packaging/manual/etc, Ubisoft gets paid in full, and Ubisoft pays for the cost of making the product.
      Theft: User has the game disc and packaging/manual/etc, Ubisoft gets paid in full, and Ubisoft pays for the cost of making the product.
      Piracy: User has a copy of the game but no packaging/manual/etc, Ubisoft doesn't get paid, and Ubisoft does not pay any cost to make the product.

      Look, Ubisoft doesn't actually make the discs themselves. They pay a manufacturing company to print X copies of it for distribution, the retailers and warehouse middle-men pay Ubisoft for Y copies. If you steal it from the manufacturer, it's the manufacturer that is out the cost of making the replacement disc, if you steal it from the shipping companies then they are out the cost of the product (more accurately, their insurance company is), and if you steal it from the retailer the retailer is out the money. In ALL cases Ubisoft gets paid.

      If you pirate the game, Ubisoft doesn't lose any money or product. The only way they "lose" anything is if you would have normally purchased the product, and in most cases pirates either wouldn't (or couldn't) purchase the game or they purchase it in addition to pirating it.

      I personally don't agree with pirating as opposed to purchasing. Either buy it & pirate it to get around the DRM or else just don't play it.

    158. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 1

      ...put their piracy statistics through the roof. Download the game 4 or 5 times

      That won't help much. I doubt they actually monitor all the downloads, if they did they'd probably be shutting more of them down. They probably just look at the sales figures and make a best guess at the pirating numbers.

    159. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What you have just explained is not a legitimate justification for calling copyright infringement theft, but is instead a legitimate justification for why copyright infringement is illegal.

    160. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Theft:

      -User has the game
      -Ubisoft doesn't get any money

      nope, they get the money, the store paid for the game

    161. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I weight advantages and downsides against each other, for example Steam has the downside of server-based DRM with all the inherent issues but it makes up for that by offering a ton of advantages (automated installs and patching, re-download at will, no disc in drive, tons of low-priced games). I also demand a lot more from a 70€ game than something I got on a Steam sale for a fiver. What annoys me is when people still stuff SecuROM (especially with activation) on top of Steam but it seems only the big publishers do that, the indie games never do.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    162. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you play games for graphics, then you aren't a real gamer. Nice troll by the way, but it all fell apart when you claimed that Nexuiz only needs low end hardware. Clearly you've never actually played Nexuiz, because if you had you'd know that if you even turn up half of the graphical details, it will drag a beefy gaming PC down.

      Go buy a console, kid.

    163. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Think about it carefully. Those who choose not to buy from Ubisoft because of DRM (or X company because of Y complaint), are they actually stealing value from the copyright? Certainly they get no value from Ubisoft, and Ubisoft gets no gain from them. What's happened is that Ubisoft actually never did have the demand in the first place, and their copyright was never worth that sale. It is not the case that the person is enjoying themselves at Ubisoft's expense, rather a mutual agreement not to trade with each other. Notice the key word "mutual" here.

      There are subtleties to my logic. Beware all those who would presume to know it.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    164. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Well, I would argue that it is a justification for classifying it as theft, which is a reason enough for making it illegal. The thievery is of something intangible, but that, IMHO, does not actually change the nature of the offence. The definition of thievery is, more or less, "taking something for oneself by depriving it of another, without their permission". So long as you can accept that the "thing" in something can be intangible (like portions of value from a copyright), then it satisfies the definition.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    165. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      The planning stage, as well as the implementation stage, should really have come before they accepted everyone's $60. The expectation is that Ubisoft will provide a decent service, if they insist on making their game reliant on such a service.

      I must say, I personally was pissed off when this DRM was announced. I really did want to buy and play AC2, but my current living arrangements make it impossible for me to play the game with this DRM. I would consider buying it and subsequently downloading a crack/cracked version, but I don't believe in subsidising such DRM by resorting to illegal activity. If I hate the DRM so much (which I do), then I am prepared to go without.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    166. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Elaugaufein · · Score: 1

      I remain somewhat confused by the console advocacy, there is one major current gen console that cannot run copies of commercial games as I write this post (the PS3), unsurprisingly this is also the console that had the lowest sales in most of the world (hardware and software both). Most consoles were cracked inside 6 months. (Okay, two of the portable consoles do require hardware, but the DS is relatively cheap, and the PSP isn't much more and neither of em set you back more than the price of 1 or 2 games tops. Also the PSP has a slightly less convenient non-hardware method, if you really feel the need for that, the DS doesn't but it also has ~no internal storage or standard memory card, so thats hardly surprising) Given past track records it makes as much sense to assume the reason it hasn't been cracked is that no one cared, especially since once someone did a basic crack arrived pretty fast, nothing commercial has been done yet but I dunno how long you can expect that to last (and Sony is obviously concerned about such given 3.21, which is an update that does nothing except remove features), as it does to attribute it to its rather hard core security setup. Admittedly I may be more tech savvy than the average console consumer but I found none of these things took any real effort on my part, so I doubt thats in any way relevant. I say this as someone who actually buys pretty much all the things I play (basically if I can find it for sale at somewhere close to the original market price, I buy it) whether on PC or Console, but when you import game or don't feel like carring around a sack filled with games for a portable system, or want to be able to read a walkthrough on your secon DS, you still find these things out. TL:DR: Consoles are no more secure than PCs are about 6 months after the system is on sale, and the only reason they last that long is because they never have software based backwards compatability, which is basically a given on PCs.

    167. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by masmullin · · Score: 1

      thats nice. music and video games have completely different cultures. Comparing their drm is only superficial.

    168. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by NickFortune · · Score: 1

      The people don't even have to play it. They just have to buy it, and the bad reviews or complaints can be buried in Google or compensated for with advertising, paid reviews, astroturfing, etc

      It's kind of short-termist though. I mean three or four over-hyped turkeys, and suddenly no-one's going to get excited, no matter how much money is spent on advertising.

      Marketers and admen like to think of people as essentially stateless; that they always respond the same way to the same inputs. I don't think that's true: people learn. Admittedly when it comes to people considered in the aggregate they often learn slowly. But the latency period seems to be getting shorter with the advent of the Internet, and I think people in the aggregate are slow to forget, as well...

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    169. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      The music industry also gets revenue from far more places than the PC gaming industry. Music gets radio and internet royalties per play, as well as big licensing deals for use in TV/movies/commercials, beyond people buying a physical or digital copy. PC game makers only get money when people buy the disk or download, that's basically it. You can bet your ass they will want to defend their only income stream, or work to create new ones like paid demos (also note the proliferation of paid DLC on the consoles).

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      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    170. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Just stay bent over and keep taking it... eventually it will not hurt as much." -Yves Guillemot, Ubisoft CEO

    171. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cool factor and peer pressure"

      Then strike back. Dude, you bought that piece of shit game? Who cares man, it may run smooth like glass, until your connection hiccups and you just lost your gameplay. Plus, they're watching and recording you. You're giving money to a bad company that puts out shit games. Lame.

      People always dish on the positive (see Apple) when there are a lot of people who stand against such companies. They just don't noticed because they are in the "profit" margin and are left uncounted.

    172. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No DRM system is an acceptable one.

    173. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Roogna · · Score: 1

      While I realize that, it does not change the fact that it DOES NOT give you the right to pirate. See, here's the thing, talk to everyone you know about the DRM. Get the word out. Don't spend your money and get the people you know to not spend their money on content locked down like that. But stealing it? As many a person points out, that just tells these execs that the -content- is interesting to you, if they could just figure out how to lock it down right. Yes, they're morons. Yes, they're wrong. But the -only- thing that gets into these peoples skulls are the bottom line. If that means running companies like Ubisoft out of business, DO IT!. But that does -not- involve stealing their product. Have the balls to tell yourself that you disagree with the company and that you don't need their product, in -any- way. Anything else is just you trying to justify why you deserve and are entitled to their product for free.

    174. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up. THIS is essentially what Ubisoft is saying.

    175. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that all DRM is created equal. That simply isn't the case. Steam is DRM, yes, but unlike most DRM schemes it provides advantages that help balance the negative points. UbiSoft's DRM is just out-and-out negative. They claim that centrally stored save games are an advantage to the customer, but that doesn't even relate to their DRM scheme.

      --
      You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
    176. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Shrike82 · · Score: 1

      Totally agee. I posted something related to this a while back basically saying that DRM has a massively negative image (and at the minute rightly so). The very acronym "DRM" makes people think of all the bad ones. DRM can offer advantages to the users, and if it's done well (like Steam) then it can even start to raise the reputation of DRM schemes. I don't pirate games, I (hugely) dislike the concept and execution of DRM schemes like UbiSoft and Sony employ, yet Steam still manages to impress me by offering all the things you mention.

      --
      You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
    177. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by ifrag · · Score: 1

      I have no issue whatsoever with calling it theft.

      You do realize that words like "theft" and "stealing" have well defined meanings? The definition of the word is not subject to your opinion. You can call it whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true. It is what it is.

      --
      Fear is the mind killer.
    178. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      I'm acutely aware of the DeCSS codes and that there is no shortage of tools to rip an ISO from a CSS'd DVD. The validity of my argument hinges on how success is defined. If you're defining success as being completely impregnable, then there is no DRM scheme I'm aware of that fits this description. However, EVERYONE who lived through the early 1990's had - and knew how to use - a dual-deck cassette player. Copying a cassette tape was a task whereby if you walked through a mall in 1992 and asked 100 people if they knew how to copy a cassette tape, at least 99 of them would be able to tell you with confidence.

      Wear one of those DeCSS T-Shirts in your local mall tomorrow and ask 100 people if they know the significance of the code on the shirt. If 15 of them do, I'd be impressed. Alternatively, even if they don't recognize the source code, ask them if they can name an app that can copy a copy protected DVD movie or rip an ISO of one. Again, if more than 20 people could confidently and accurately demonstrate this task, I'd say that you went to a very tech savvy mall.

      I'm acutely aware of the presence of DVD rips all over the internet, but that's a straw-man argument. It only takes one person, one time, to strip the CSS and distribute that copy of the data. That's different than what is being addressed here, which would be (theoretically) distributing a copy-protected ISO and relying on end-users to decrypt the movie before viewing. I doubt you'll find a single MPAA rep who isn't aware that CSS has been cracked and that it isn't preventing aXXo rips from appearing all over the web. The point of CSS is to limit the amount of casual copying between users.

      If Adam buys $MOVIE and Bob buys $OTHER_MOVIE, if neither are technical enough to run a cracking app, they'll find out real fast that Roxio/Nero/Your Commercial App Here will refuse to copy it. They'll either swap loaning the movies, or they'll each buy their own copy. If Adam goes online to Google search it, there's a chance that he'll find a usable app, but also a chance that he'll riddle his computer with malware and have to pay the Geek Squad $200 to fix it. In that case, he'll come to the conclusion of "I could have bought 10-20 DVD movies for the cost of fixing my computer after trying to copy one", and give up on the idea. If the MPAA makes a few hundred more sales this way than they would have if clicking "copy DVD" on Roxio worked, then i'd venture to guess that the intent of adding CSS was fulfilled for them, and by THAT metric, it is successful.

    179. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      All business nowadays is "short-termist". That's how the housing bubble happened, that's why Americans are saving record-low amounts of their paycheck every week, that's why everyone (especially the federal government) is borrowing money left and right, etc.

      We've become a short-term society with short-term attention spans. It's dangerous and it's gonna screw us over in the long run, but the short term sure looks great! -_- *sigh*

    180. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      My point is that Adam and Bob will each just download $MOVIE and $OTHER_MOVIE without paying for either because it's faster to torrent the movie than to drive to the store. This is made possible because CSS was so easy to crack.

    181. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      And my point is that once a movie is DeCSS'd, it's not up to the end user to decrypt it and thus has no bearing on the integrity and success of CSS.

      Your argument assumes that Adam and Bob both know how to torrent and burn the AVI or MKV to a disc and have a blazing fast internet connection, but all of that is irrelevant.

      If they wanted to not pay retail to get a movie, finding street corner vendors, flea markets, give the movie to their local slashdotter to copy...there's always been an underground market for the stuff that dates back to VHS and also has nothing to do with CSS.

      The point is that Hollywood is well aware that CSS is trivial to crack, and it's certainly not going to prevent dvd rips from ending up on p2p networks - but it's also trivial to implement. Adobe Encore can CSS a disc with two clicks, for crying out loud. It's a "locks are for honest people" solution that will prevent users below given certain threshold of technical prowess from copying and distributing movies they've purchased to their neighbors and friends. It won't stop mass piracy and they know it, but from their perspective if just a handful of would-be disc copiers opt for buying a disc instead, they'll consider it successful.

    182. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by JarinArenos · · Score: 1

      Again, though, look at Windows Vista. And they've practically got a monopoly on the market. There reaches a point where more advertising money is a net loss, bringing in less sales than you've spent.

    183. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

      How is my view utopian? I'll quote myself: "Won't happen, most people don't care and it's good enough."

      gmack is the idealist here, I was pointing out that it doesn't matter how people get the idea that a crack means you need better DRM. All that matters is that they get the idea. "[W]hether it's true or whether they infer it doesn't matter." You'll notice that DRM was the last thing on the hypothetical list that people would question.

      Specifically, "You're right, but it doesn't change anything," basically means that no boycott will ever work, even an ideal one. Read that again if you want - an ideal boycott will not have the desired effect. Studios will go out of business and/or merge and we'll have EA and all its faults as the new Standard Oil. And the DRM will be oppressive, designed into the games. No more single player, everything is online through our authentication servers.

      That's *dystopian* thinking right there.

    184. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by brkello · · Score: 1

      Why do we have to have someone like you on every copyright post. Yeah, we know it isn't literally theft. But it is easy to say stealing that it is to say copyright infringing. You are utilizing something that you should be paying for, but you are not. It's close enough to "stealing" for every normal person out there.

      You may think you are clever or that you are being informative but you really aren't. All you are doing is detracting from the discussion by being pedantic.

      No one was trying to be disingenuous except maybe you. Instead of actually debating the issue you want to cry about terminology. Grow up.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    185. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by gmack · · Score: 1

      There is a saying that applies here: "Anything is easy if you don't know what your talking about"

      We know this and I'm sure their programmers know this but I bet the managers don't believe it for an instant.

    186. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder what Microsoft would have to say about this whole matter, with no PC games there is less of a compelling reason to keep Windows PCs around.

      Personally I like to pay for software and not use P2P releases as I trust them more, though you could argue that the boxed releases have just as much chance of installing a rootkit as the P2P stuff.

      What has ruined the PC gaming experience in the last couple of years - as mentioned already.

      *Piss poor console ports. Buggy and not well thought out.
      *Buggy games with no support from BIG studios.
      *DRM a la AC2 - always on Internet connection, other methods are (more) acceptable (Steam).

      I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the next Xbox generation is actually a Microsoft branded general purpose computing platform, gaming machine, set top box, media center, thus solving all the PC piracy problems.

    187. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      You do realize that words like "theft" and "stealing" have well defined meanings? The definition of the word is not subject to your opinion. You can call it whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true. It is what it is.

      Don't be an idiot. Meanings are not nearly so static or clear cut. Meanings are derived from usage in language, and, in within certain contexts, are defined more statically (but often differently depending on the context). So, for example, the term "fallacy" in day-to-day language is *far* removed from the term "fallacy" as used in mathematics. The word "fallacy" was grown organically in language, but mathematicians found that such a definition was useless to them, so they ruthlessly refined it. Also, terms in law often have discrepancies with their ordinary language equivalents. For example, negligence in law requires damage to be done, whereas in day-to-day life, you can perform negligent acts that (luckily) result in no damage.

      Now, as for theft in particular, according to Wikipedia:

      The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorised taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use.

      If you accept a portion of copyright (equating to a freely distributable copy of the work) to be "another's property", and you consider using that work with no intention of buying it (for the full sale price when you bought it) as "intent to permanently deprive the owner" of its use, then yes, it would be theft. I'm not taking for granted here that you accept this, hence the "I have no issue..." statement.

      The problem here is that copyright infringement is a relatively recent and rather unique phenomenon. We don't have a neat classification for it. I would be happy with theft, because it has the same mechanic as theft, but just as theft of something intangible. This is where your precious notions about definitions may get shattered.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    188. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Theoboley · · Score: 1

      I have a tinfoil hat in your size.

      --
      Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
    189. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by valduboisvert · · Score: 1

      Piracy is just free advertising. Most of the people who uses pirated games are not going to buy them anyway. But they will spread the word, they will show the game, etc. It is also true that some are checking the pirated version just to be sure the game is worth buying. But these are another category.

      Assuming the war against piracy will be won by the big companies, I really doubt it will drive their sales trough the roof though.

    190. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Name me ONE other industry...

      Every industry that gets discussed by people in Internet forums.

      Basically, there's nothing unusual or particularly interesting going on. You're just someone riding this particular groupthink wave. There's some place on the Internet where people exactly like you are outraged (outraged!) about anything anyone does.

      And it's almost all just as meaningless as your reaction here.

    191. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by TheRealGrogan · · Score: 1

      I have played Nexuiz and I have experimented with the graphics settings. Turning on some of that stuff is heavy on the CPU (not the GPU... it's very poorly implemented) without any worthwhile benefit. You can't really graft modern features onto an old engine. I probably know more about it than you seem to. Go buy a shotgun, kid, and use it to give yourself a much needed enema.

    192. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by symbolic · · Score: 1

      It seems like your line of reasoning is becoming more mainstream - slbeit slowly. And it's a good thing, because no matter how much people like to rationalize why their behavior is better (cracking, stealing), it will never change the fact that money (revenue), or lack thereof, is the one universal dynamic that will give all these complaints about DRM some real meaning. When the consequences associated with a solution (DRM) starts becoming too costly, it stops being a solution.

    193. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's rather generalistic, I think more people are saving now than ever before, but that doesn't mean there is a majority saving. The government is a worst offender and there are plenty of individuals failing to save and spending what they don't have.

    194. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      That being?

    195. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      Somewhere between 50% and 100% of his given population equates zionism with naziism. While this may or may not be true based on his location, I doubt it was the point he was trying to get across.

      I had to spell this out for you? What reasons might I have for digging up Socrates' thigh bone and beating you with it?

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    196. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Somewhere between 50% and 100% of his given population equates zionism with naziism. While this may or may not be true based on his location, I doubt it was the point he was trying to get across.

      Who is "he"? The person who does the juxtaposing? Sure, he and his population believe that Zionism == Nazism. That was my point, the reason I restated Godwin's Law for the Middle East. The two things are fundamentally different, and people need to learn not to juxtapose them.

    197. Re:They don't care about the problems today. by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      "he" turns out to be "you". sorry, didn't realize you were the same as the GP.

      That was my point, the reason I restated Godwin's Law for the Middle East. The two things are fundamentally different, and people need to learn not to juxtapose them.

      Ok, but your sig seems to be suggesting that a majority does conflate the two. Not really my problem, just pointing it out. As far as "fundamentally different" goes, they're both products of hard-core nationalism which, in my opinion, is one of the major problems we'll have to tackle this century. It will be interesting to see how Zionism plays out in Israel in the next decade, since public support seems to be drying up in the US. The appearance of a Palestinian Gandhi or MLK seems like it would split the country apart.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
  2. $60 per month by tepples · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They've recently said it's "vital" to the success of their games and promised that their DRM would "evolve and improve" over time.

    Improving the DRM won't improve the game itself. A game would have to be pretty damn good to make me pay AT&T $60 per month for the ability to play it on a laptop. I've bought exactly one game published by Ubisoft (Lumines for PSP, a franchise that Ubi has since lost to Disney), and if anyone working at Ubi is reading, I'm not buying any more until your company starts considering laptops without mobile broadband.

    1. Re:$60 per month by Jurily · · Score: 0, Redundant

      and if anyone working at Ubi is reading, I'm not buying any more until your company starts considering laptops without mobile broadband.

      I, for one, am not buying any game where the pirated version is better.

    2. Re:$60 per month by ThePhilips · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Data plans, anyway you look at them, are still luxury. Time after time I check with my friends how much they pay for iPhone per month and for myself I simply can't justify the expenses.

      And the laptop gaming is on rise. What is rather obvious as for few years now laptop shipments outnumber that of desktops. It is simple fact that more and more people own a laptop and have no desktop at all.

      That means that "always on-line" DRM is screwed in long run.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    3. Re:$60 per month by rxan · · Score: 2, Informative

      The only way to implement secure and effective DRM may be through the use of server handshaking. I understand that. But these publishers really need to understand that not everyone has a connection all of the time. Even when customers do have a connection it can be faulty and thus cause them problems.

      I'm OK with DRM. Just make it not affect my gameplay.

    4. Re:$60 per month by mstrcat · · Score: 1

      I have to agree, I would never buy products that are hostage of the distributors good will. I own several Ubisoft titles, an in general I thought that they were excellently done. However no matter how good the game is, the current DRM scheme would keep me from buying it. No matter how 'evolved' or 'improved' they try to spin it, I won't be buying games that can't be installed on a stand-alone machine, non-networked computer.

    5. Re:$60 per month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most people getting a new phone aren't going from no plan to plan+phone, but from having a plan with an old phone to buying a new phone with a new plant. Most people realize they are going to be tied into a plan. We compare phone costs and we compare plan costs. When you throw out a total number for a plan like that, it lacks an understanding of how most people think of their cell phone costs. It makes the information less useful, not more. It is accurate, though, so if you'd rather be accurate in your way than in another way (e.g., price + monthly plan costs) that would be more easily understood by people, enjoy.

    6. Re:$60 per month by Draek · · Score: 1

      Then you should've bought PoP '08. Ubisoft is making an experiment of sorts with their games: PoP was released with no DRM or copy protection whatsoever (no, not even a CD-Key check), and now with AC2 and Settlers 7 they're going the other way and implemented the toughest protection they could make for it. Then, one guesses, after all is said and done they'll see which one sold better and they'll stay with that model from then on.

      It is also quite a good game, in spite of what the younger kids who've only played Sands of Time may say. Easy, however, but fun nevertheless.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    7. Re:$60 per month by Digicaf · · Score: 1

      I have mobile broadband but even so would never use this. I have 5 GB a month, which is more than enough for my typical usage but it'll be a cold day in hell before I start using up a significant portion of my cap for DRM.

      And before anyone says anything, ANY amount of data is a significant portion of my cap when its being used for crap like this. If this somehow enhanced the gameplay or added to it I'd have no problem with it. In fact, mobile gaming was why I originally bought mobile broadband. Multiplayer support is one thing, invasive DRM is another.

    8. Re:$60 per month by tepples · · Score: 1

      Most people getting a new phone aren't going from no plan to plan+phone, but from having a plan with an old phone to buying a new phone with a new plant.

      Then I guess most people aren't A. people getting a cell phone for the first time, B. people who consider switching from a bargain-basement phone with a $5/mo urgencies-only plan (such as the plan I have with Virgin Mobile USA) to a smartphone with a $65/mo plan, or C. people not getting a phone at all but instead a USB 3G dongle or a MiFi router. Case C is the most interesting for the article because it covers people who would have to buy a data plan just to play Ubisoft games on a laptop.

      It is accurate, though, so if you'd rather be accurate in your way than in another way (e.g., price + monthly plan costs) that would be more easily understood by people

      In a lot of cases, the up-front price of the handset or other device is $0 because it's fully subsidized by the $59.95/mo plan, which adds up to $1,438.80 over the 24-month minimum commitment.

    9. Re:$60 per month by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      DRM is to prevent use of the product when the criteria for authorised use are not met.

      How is DRM supposed to not affect your gameplay?

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    10. Re:$60 per month by rxan · · Score: 1

      ...

      ...

      ...

      Mod +-0 pedantic.

  3. Customers? What customers? by bmo · · Score: 1

    Antagonize your own customers at your own risk.

    This is a "bet the company" move, and I'm betting this leads to Chapter 7.

    --
    BMO

  4. IANAL, but... by ticklejw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...where are all the class-action lawsuits? Here's a place where people should be suing the hell out of a company. Why isn't this happening?

    --
    "Software is like sex; it's better when it's free." -Linus Torvalds
    1. Re:IANAL, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only people who bought these titles are retards. On a good day they can tie their shoes and that's about it.
      They'll continue to get fucked up the ass like your mother and love every minute of it as long as they can sometimes play Asstwat Creed 9000.

    2. Re:IANAL, but... by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      It takes more than three weeks to organize such things. It also takes more than three weeks of difficulty getting your game to work to justify them. Are people who can't get connected being refused refunds?

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    3. Re:IANAL, but... by sjames · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Don't file a class action, take them to small claims court. If they can't be bothered to show up, they can just accept the default judgment for the plaintiff. If they do show up, it'll cost them much more than the proper refund would.

      All you'll get for a class action is a rich lawyer and a coupon for a glorious $5 off of another non-working game. If a class action suit does get going, opt out and go to small claims anyway.

    4. Re:IANAL, but... by jimicus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How come so few US people even seem to consider the small claims route? Is it really awkward in the US or something?

    5. Re:IANAL, but... by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Class action = no time spent, a little money
      Small claims = lots of time spent, possibly a full refund. Maybe.

      Given the crazy lives people lead, I'm not surprised so many choose the 'no time spent' route.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    6. Re:IANAL, but... by MadnessASAP · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My guess is that class action law suits require very little effort from 99% of the people involved, they simply have to say that they were in some way harmed and then get to collect their reward. Small claims court means you actually have to work and put effort in even if it's not alot. As well know on Slashdot everyone wants the world to be fixed, so long as somebody else does it.

      --
      I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
    7. Re:IANAL, but... by RapmasterT · · Score: 1

      Class action = no time spent, a little money Small claims = lots of time spent, possibly a full refund. Maybe.

      Given the crazy lives people lead, I'm not surprised so many choose the 'no time spent' route.

      Except that I'm aware of only a VERY few cases of class action lawsuits filed for consumers that resulted in cash settlements of any kind. Typically the result is a coupon for a discount off another product from the same company that just admitted to screwing you, but only if purchased at full retail price. Resulting in another sale for them, and a net HIGHER price for you.
      Class action lawsuits only make money for the lawyers, the "plaintiffs" just get the opportunity to be screwed for a second time.

    8. Re:IANAL, but... by Moonrazor · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that if you do take them to small claims court there is one of two things that will happen. Thing number one is that you'll pay for filing a small claim (usually around $50 court costs to file) win a default judgment and UBI will just ignore you. Now you're out another $60 but Hey! You have your satisfaction. Thing number two is the same as thing number one, but instead of ignoring you, UBI will appeal the verdict, get the claim moved to a court of their choosing closer to their lawyers and you'll have to do some serious traveling to defend your claim. In which case you are out some serious cash now. THAT is why taking this kind of stuff to small claims just isn't worth it, either way, you're gonna end up being screwed more than you were going in.

      --
      Burn the land and boil the sea........
    9. Re:IANAL, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are always filing fees- in Illinois for a claim less than $250, the fee is $62 (varies by county). Plus all of your time filling out forms, going to court, etc. Just not worth it.

    10. Re:IANAL, but... by hldn · · Score: 1

      i got $200 cash from a class action suit against microsoft in my state :)

      --
      http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
    11. Re:IANAL, but... by sjames · · Score: 1

      True, but when they do that you can go get your "I got fucked up the ass by Ubisoft" shirt and you'll have plenty of documentation when people question you. I'll bet they don't want a lot of those shirts worn around, especially not at gaming shows.

      Also, if they pull a no-show, they might not have much grounds to appeal. The courts REALLY hate being ignored.

    12. Re:IANAL, but... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      And suing for what exactly? Suing Ubisoft because you bought something without reading the bold print on the requirements portion of the box?

      You aren't a lawyer, thats clear, since you don't get very far when you try to sue someone because you are an idiot. They labeled the box, you don't get to sue. If they hadn't labeled the box, you'd have an argument.

      Its rather retarded how your first instinct is to sue them for not doing what you want. This is an outstanding example of the sense of entitlement people seem to have today.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    13. Re:IANAL, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a reminder: if you are going to take them to small claims court, DO NOT make your claim against the company as a whole. Specify the CEO. It probably won't matter for such a small amount of money, but I am aware of companies sending a flunky just to show up and dispute a claim for $1200. The filer lost. If they had targeted the CEO, the CEO wouldn't waste his time and the filer would have won be default.

    14. Re:IANAL, but... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      How come so few US people even seem to consider the small claims route? Is it really awkward in the US or something?

      The US has a really backwards legal system, even if you win, you'll pay more in lawyer fees as the loser is not obliged to pay (meaning anyone with more money then you could simply out-lawyer you regardless of guilt).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    15. Re:IANAL, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IANAL too, email me!

    16. Re:IANAL, but... by Zadaz · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it's particularly awkward or not compared to other countries, but it is a ton of work.

      There's a lot of paperwork that has to be exactly correct, there are filing fees, and you likely have to hire a process server to serve the suit. (You can recoup these costs if you win.)

      And if you get a judgement in your favor it's not like the money is just deposited into your bank account. If they don't feel like paying, you've got to take it to collections. Which might get you 10% of what you are owed.

      In short, to recoup $60 for the game would take a lot of time, effort, and aggravation. If you worked the same amount of time at minimum wage you'd probably get twice the money.

      (I'm also very much not a lawyer.)

    17. Re:IANAL, but... by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Legal costs aren't usually reclaimable in the UK at small claims (they are for most other things), but small claims is designed so that individuals can use it without incurring any - you just fill in the form, the court sends a summons to the defendant and a single judge listens to what you've both got to say and makes his judgement on the spot.

      If you win and the defendant doesn't pay out, you can ask the court to send the bailiffs in and any additional bailiff fees would be on top of the judgement amount. There are a few cases of individuals taking big nationwide businesses to court and the business never bothered to file a defence - a few weeks later bailiffs walked into the nearest branch and threatened to seize all their computers unless the judgement was paid on the spot.

    18. Re:IANAL, but... by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Legal costs aren't usually reclaimable in the UK at small claims (they are for most other things), but small claims is designed so that individuals can use it without incurring any - you just fill in the form, the court sends a summons to the defendant and a single judge listens to what you've both got to say and makes his judgement on the spot.

      If you win and the defendant doesn't pay out, you can ask the court to send the bailiffs in and any additional bailiff fees would be on top of the judgement amount. There are a few cases of individuals taking big nationwide businesses to court and the business never bothered to file a defence - a few weeks later bailiffs walked into the nearest branch and threatened to seize all their computers unless the judgement was paid on the spot.

      Putting it like that...

      This sort of thing shouldn't be handled by small claims, it's a bit too big. Realistically I'd submit the case to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) claiming the product was not "Fit for purpose". They are set up to investigate this and fine those responsible if they find anything. I'm not sure if the UK has a similar organisation but I highly doubt the US does.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    19. Re:IANAL, but... by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Putting it like that...

      This sort of thing shouldn't be handled by small claims, it's a bit too big. Realistically I'd submit the case to the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) claiming the product was not "Fit for purpose". They are set up to investigate this and fine those responsible if they find anything. I'm not sure if the UK has a similar organisation but I highly doubt the US does.

      We do - it's called Trading Standards. But IME as soon as you go down the path of trying to get any enforcement done on something which isn't pretty cut and dried - say only a small fraction of people are affected and nobody has been able to pin down precisely why it's that small fraction - their eyes glaze over. Best case scenario is that Ubisoft would be asked a few questions, and they'd counter with something like "99% of people have not had a problem; you're always going to get some who do for whatever reason" and Trading Standards will nod understandingly and agree. The question of if/how one goes about getting a refund if you're one of the 1% would probably not even come up.

    20. Re:IANAL, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? It says right on the box in bold print that the game only works randomly if their servers aren't being "attacked" or overloaded and only if their staff which is supposed to monitor said servers 24/7 aren't on vacation?

  5. It wasn't a problem for me.... by blankoboy · · Score: 1

    I didn't give them any money. They can take their DRM and go circle the drain....bye guys.

  6. eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bought silent hunter 5. After not allowing to let me play my own game because of a problem with a driver and windows 7 operative system, I've decided never again to purchase an ubisoft game. torrent powered pirated games, here I come!

    Vote with your wallet people.

    Eff them and good riddance.

    1. Re:eff them by linzeal · · Score: 1

      From the first CD Rom game that would not allow me to play without the CD in the drive I have been a game pirate. I remember listening to my mid 1990's grunge bands like Nirvana while playing games and all of the sudden some game I forget which told me I could not do that. So I took it back to the store and never looked back.

      Yep Yep, and for me it was the same thing with online advertising. One day online there was a flashing annoying popup ad and I got pissed off, so from that day onward I have run Squid with an ad blocking blacklist as my proxy server and all of computers save my android devices have ad blocking software on them as well.

      Funny thing is, I don't mind Steam's DRM because over a period of 4 years I have not been able to play a total of 1 day. Google Text Ads are fine too but what has happened is that even small picture ads piss me off now and the slightest inconvenience in playing a game I bought will make me instantly crack it.

    2. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The game was just refusing to run when you listen to that "music". Anyone and anything with sense would do the same thing.

      I love quotes like this, because someone, somewhere, has said something very similar about every single genre of music ever. All of them were wrong.

    3. Re:eff them by Rockoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Steam actually adds value (download to any PC anywhere, never need a CD, etc) in compensation for the loss of certain freedoms associated with their DRM system (no resale, etc.)

      Nobody elses DRM is adding value.

      An example of the value its given me: I purchased Left 4 Dead from Walmart a year or so ago I guess, but when I opened the product, the CD was broken. "Aww crap!" .. This stuff happens.. but wait.. its a steam game! No need to go back to the store! Launch steam, enter the product key, latest version downloads with all patches applied, and off I went killing zombies....

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    4. Re:eff them by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Don't pirate it.

      That means the game could be remembered for any positive aspects.

      No, the bastards don't deserve for their software to make it into our culture. Buy someone ELSE'S game.

    5. Re:eff them by RJHelms · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed you were actually able to return a game to a store for that reason.

      'Round these parts (Central Ontario) most stores only accept returns on software because of defective media, and usually even then all they're willing do is exchange it for another copy. It's been that way for about 15 years, to my recollection.

    6. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to forget Steam's HUGE DRM issue. IF YOU GET BANNED YOU LOSE ALL YOUR GAMES. Not just one. ALL OF THEM. No thanks.

    7. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought silent hunter 5. After not allowing to let me play my own game because of a problem with a driver and windows 7 operative system, I've decided never again to purchase an ubisoft game.

            And I downloaded Silent Hunter 5. After playing it for 10 minutes I was very happy that I didn't pay for it because it's a total rip off, and deleted it from my hard drive.

    8. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also the choice is yours whether you use Steam. Steam works offline. And almost any title can be had not on steam as well, usually including other download services (with their own DRM, usually, albeit frequently very weak one) and hard copies. There is no real problem.

    9. Re:eff them by TACD · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're talking about VAC-banning then you're just factually incorrect. If not then I'd be interested to know of an example, because I've never heard of somebody's entire Steam account being banned. Phished, perhaps, but not banned.

      --
      Security through promiscuity is no better than security through obscurity.
    10. Re:eff them by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      Then, uh, don't get banned? It's a fairly simple thing. Don't cheat. That's pretty much it. There's incredibly few false positives, and Steam's customer support is good enough that you can appeal if it was *actually* an unfair banning.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    11. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steam is the best content platform I've seen, ever. Followed closely by Blizzard's store, of course, but nothing else comes close.

    12. Re:eff them by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      Yep. Not to mention the frequent 50-90% off sales. I can't remember the last game I bought over $20.

      It also has a lot of convenient features - like when a friend of mine needed Left4Dead, I just copied it over to his computer, and his Steam picked it up. Saved him a huge download!

      Redetecting games if you have to wipe or upgrade your OS (but not your game partition) is handy, on occasion. Saves HOURS reinstalling games.

      And all the time saved keeping things up to date.

      Or for most games, not having to deal with crappy DRM or separate account signups...

      Steam is great! GOG is also great (and DRM free), but Steam has all the new games on it.

    13. Re:eff them by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      It's not even true though - a VAC ban prevents you from playing on VAC-enabled servers, but does not stop you playing on other servers that do not have VAC monitoring. It does not delete your games either - the account carries on just fine.

      What is does prevent you doing though is moving those games to a *new* account, so if you cheat and want to play on VAC servers again then you need a new account, and you are not allowed to move your purchases/CD keys over, and the old account is banned from VAC servers forever, for all old and new games added to it. You can still play the games though, and play on non-protected servers.

    14. Re:eff them by ymgve · · Score: 1

      If you're talking about VAC-banning then you're just factually incorrect. If not then I'd be interested to know of an example, because I've never heard of somebody's entire Steam account being banned. Phished, perhaps, but not banned.

      Google "disabled Steam account". They ban people for various things, mostly related to billing issues. If you want to experience it yourself, try purchasing something with a credit card, then dispute the charge. Poof, no more account.

    15. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is one caveat with Steam, one that I experienced through my own stupidty (long day, tired, wasn't paying attention). If you get your account hijacked, it's a pain to get it back. The easiest method is to ensure you have at least one disc copy of a game that was store bought around, as this will allow you to provide physical evidence that it is your account. Now the refreshing part was, this whole process took 3 days (2 of which were over the weekend). Long and short of it, I like Steam. Not the best system, but more than capable for what I need and I actually like seeing what other people are playing. Reminds me, I still need to get Dragons Age...

    16. Re:eff them by mjwx · · Score: 0

      Nobody's DRM is adding value.

      There, fixed that for you.

      No DRM can add value, by DRM's nature it can only take value.

      It is steams other services that add value, not the DRM. Imagine how improved Steam games would be if I did not require Steam to start running before being able to run the game. I prefer Stardocks approach, Impulse handles the download, install, backup and patching of the game. After that I don't need Impulse to be running and taking up system resources.

      So repeat after me,
      DRM only ever removes value.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    17. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have actually purchased games on steam at higher than physical copy prices. Why? Simply because how easy it is to boot up a list of games and double click, it auto updates the games. Now with the addition of steam cloud on many games it is the ultimate platform imho. I love steam.

      I think the key here is simply price the games right and offer the ultimate level of ease ( ie steam ), i was itching to purchase AC2 and Splintercell conviction now not so much, my reasons? Because even on steam i need to create ANOTHER account and put up with there pointless DRM which i sadly refuse to support.

    18. Re:eff them by Tukz · · Score: 1

      And what does have to do with VAC?

      VAC is the anti-cheat system, and have nothing do with steam itself (billing, etc)

      And OP is partly correct.
      If you get banned in a source game (by VAC) you're VAC banned in ALL source games.
      VAC bans on the engine.

      This information is even on the wikipedia page, so not exactly a secret.

      But how's that associated with DRM, I do not know.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    19. Re:eff them by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      I once thought I might have been banned since I couldn't update or play any games. Turns out my PC had a rootkit that was interfering with TCP connections, and steam didn't like that very much.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    20. Re:eff them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you are saying us that Steam 'adds' value by replacing back a lot of the things we used to be able to do with games before the same publishers started to prevent you doing these things because of 'OMFG Piracy'! And to get these handy things back all we have to do is sacrifice our right to sell on purchases after we are done with them. Awesome!

  7. How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Spatial · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If piracy is as widespread as they say, and if pirated copies really detract so heavily from sales, then the sales of this game should be abnormally large. Are they?

    I realise that's hard/impossible to measure, but it warrants some discussion.

    1. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Kohath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The question seems to deliberately misunderstand the situation.

      They are willing to accept lower sales of the game and offer a less desirable product because they consider it preferable to having their games pirated. I'm not sure why you'd think that decision would lead to lots of extra sales of the game. Even a small boost in sales makes this a worthwhile effort for them.

      They also don't want pirated PC copies of their game competing against their console sales. Consoles are where the money is, largely because of piracy on the PC.

      Maintaining this DRM seems like a good choice if it accomplishes those goals.

      Keeping people on internet forums from whining about things is futile. Why even try?

    2. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by moonbender · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, FWIW, the system has worked in so far as there is no scene release of AC2 yet. Didn't see that coming; I figured that whatever Ubisoft would do, it'd be trivially cracked in a few days at most. Nope.

      From my limited understanding, the DRM really uses challenge/response data that is necessary for playing the game, ie. actual game content in a very abstract form. So simply bypassing the server check or trivially emulating it isn't enough, the game requires the data from Ubisoft to be playable. Consequently, there is a community project (for lack of a better word) where legit copies of the game are used to find the right responses and associate them with the requests the game sends. Allegedly (I haven't tried) the database is now -- weeks after the game's release -- big enough to complete the game, though I guess it might still hang in a few places.

      So, hats off to Ubisoft. Of course, whether or not this whole BS will result in more copies of the game sold is an entirely and unrelated question. I'd assume that any additional copies sold due to the DRM are more than offset by the horrible PR the DRM caused. AC2 is probably a pretty good game, but whenever the game is mentioned all people talk about is the DRM. (Penny-Arcade on Splinter Cell: "And, since only the 360 version is available, we can talk about the actual game as opposed to the copy protection.")

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    3. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      They are willing to accept lower sales of the game and offer a less desirable product because they consider it preferable to having their games pirated.

      Erm... why?

      I mean, if they're driven by money, that seems like about the stupidest thing they could do. Yes, let's make the PC version both less enjoyable and less profitable!

      They also don't want pirated PC copies of their game competing against their console sales.

      Wouldn't that also be something they could measure? Compare sales of the console version of this game with other games that didn't have that DRM?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    4. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's cracked, there's full client side server emulation available for it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what are you talking about ? tpb has the scene release of ac2. 100% full.

    6. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Kohath · · Score: 1

      If they sell even a few more copies (you know, like I said in my post) it would be more profitable.

      Wouldn't that also be something they could measure? Compare sales of the console version of this game with other games that didn't have that DRM?

      Sales of Assassin's Creed 2 were a lot higher than the original in the first week. It's selling pretty well.

    7. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Kneo24 · · Score: 1

      And what do you mean by a few? Few is a small number. They would need to sell enough copies to offset the cost of implementing the DRM solution and any licensing fees associated with it, and then some. If they've sold only just a "few" copies more than what they normally would have sold, it was a less profitable venture in that regard. Unfortunately I doubt they could accurately predict these numbers. They can create a lot of smoke and mirrors to say, "See, see, if worked!", but they'd be bold faced liars.

    8. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Like I said, there apparently is a fairly complete "values.db" available now, after a couple of weeks. There is no scene release.

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    9. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Listen, if you think that something is a scene release by virtue of being on TPB, it's unlikely that you'll understand what I'm saying. But about half of my post was about the non-scene releases that do mostly work -- I'll go on a limb here and guess that the problems that pirates have with incomplete server data are less than the problems legit customers still seem to have. Heh -- I don't even play games anymore, but it's fun to stand at the sidelines and watch.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    10. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by esaulgd · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]

    11. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you know it's selling "a few more copies" than if it didn't have any DRM? You don't and therefore you are talking out of your ass, shill.

      Sales of Assassin's Creed 2 are probably higher than the original because when the original was released, NOBODY HAD HEARD OF IT. Of course it's going to be higher off of brand name recognition alone. That goes without saying, dumbass.

    12. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by rxan · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that people who would just pirate the game would buy it because of the inability to pirate it.

    13. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Narpak · · Score: 1

      Well, FWIW, the system has worked in so far as there is no scene release of AC2 yet. Didn't see that coming; I figured that whatever Ubisoft would do, it'd be trivially cracked in a few days at most. Nope.

      And all they needed to do was create a game that was unplayable out of the box; pure genius.

    14. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair they have been selling games that are unplayable out of the box for a while now -- and that's without DRM being involved.

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    15. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 1

      They are willing to accept lower sales of the game and offer a less desirable product because they consider it preferable to having their games pirated. [...] Even a small boost in sales makes this a worthwhile effort for them.

      Wait... So they're willing to accept lower sales of the game in order to get a small boost in sales? Don't you see the contradiction?

      They also don't want pirated PC copies of their game competing against their console sales. Consoles are where the money is, largely because of piracy on the PC.

      Pirated PC copies compete against console sales, yet console sales are most profitable due to piracy on the PC? Um... same question as above.

      --
      "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
    16. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      You do realize that once ss.emu was put to the public that the release war was already over for the major groups. That's why you'll not see a scene release over it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    17. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by Spatial · · Score: 1

      I referenced the assumptions of others in order to pose the question. I don't personally think so.

    18. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by arkhan_jg · · Score: 1

      The other thing they want to do is kill second hand sales. As I understand it, you get a one-use registration on your account on ubi.com, and you have to have that registration account logged in via the server-auth DRM all the time you're playing.

      Game makers hate second hand sales, it means their own product directly competes with new sales, where they actually make money. It's especially a problem for single-player games, as those have a much higher circulation in the second hand market once played. So DRM is much more about killing that market stone dead as it is about preventing piracy. Hell, look at the favourite 'benign' DRM, steam - no resale or even transfer to a family member there unless you register one game per steam account, which rather breaks the whole social aspect of having a steam account. That copyright law explicitly allows second hand sales as a counter-balance to the copyright holders otherwise excessive control doesn't matter; technical measures like these render the protections for customers in law completely worthless.

      Ubisoft are trying to change the market, to make this sort of extreme DRM acceptable by making it common. Preventing piracy is the cover; extending copyright far beyond what the law actually says is the real aim. If you look at all the DRM schemes, even the broken ones, and the retail schemes such as single-use codes for significant chunks of gameplay otherwise cut-out at launch, it's all about taking on and killing the second hand market - and so far, they're doing extremely well at it.

      I fully expect the next generation of consoles to have online registration of discs that tie them to a single console and/or account. The online shops on all three consoles do precisely that for purchased games.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    19. Re:How is Assassin's Creed 2 selling? by moonbender · · Score: 1

      Well, um, there is a scene release now. "Thank you Ubisoft, this was quiete[sic] a challenge for us" is what they write about it.

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      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  8. It's vital, huh? by InsertWitticismHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck 'em, then...

    --
    Read my blog. Or not. Whatever.
  9. Average? by headkase · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If any of their games were selling particularly well I'm sure they'd be shouting from the rooftops: "See it works!" But they're not so I imagine its for the par at least. What will be really interesting is the five year outlook, I've already decided to do my part to kill Ubisoft: I will never buy another one of their games, theres always something else to choose.

    --
    Shh.
  10. The Moral of the story is... by deadmongrel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DRM only punishes people who actually pay money to buy.

    1. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Ziekheid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep but the problem lies exactly with these people who keep buying the games with this kind of DRM protection. If people stop buying they're practically forced to stop using this kind of protection.
      But we all know this is never going to happen and people will keep buying their products.

    2. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In fairness, it did take a few weeks for a good crack to come out, and I think there are still a few rough edges. The good news is most of that time seems to have been spent creating cracking tools, so the Settlers crack is coming along quite a bit faster.

      Of course, maintaining this DRM *after* a 100% working crack is released would be astoundingly, pointlessly stupid. So I'm sure they'll do that.

    3. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Interoperable · · Score: 1

      Well, if it's as successful as this approach by Ubisoft at preventing the game from being cracked, then it also punishes the would-be pirates. DRM on games actually can be used to only prevent pirating while not disrupting the game-play of legitimate buyers. It hasn't been pulled off yet...but it could happen. Of course, the always on-line approach is guaranteed to punish the legitimate buyers.

      Music and video DRM, on the other hand, is just pointless. If a human can buy it and listen to/watch it, then a human can buy it and have a recording device listen to/watch it.

      --
      So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
    4. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Interoperable · · Score: 0

      I still think that the fundamental problem lies in the fact that piracy occurs in the first place. Seriously, if the game has value to you, buy it. If it doesn't, don't play it.

      --
      So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
    5. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And the problem with the traffic fatality situation is that people get into car accidents, and the problem with heart disease is that hearts are not indestructible. True, but not helpful in terms of finding a solution.

    6. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should we do that? I'll vote with my wallet, but I'll also test the goods.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke

    7. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      I still think that the fundamental problem lies in the fact that piracy occurs in the first place.

      No one is disputing that, and you're certainly correct. However, people who paid $60 for this game (who also HAVE to pay for a net connection (not sure if broadband is a requirement?) in order to play the game) cannot play, and those who pirated the game are paying right now, unrestricted. Hence, DRM is a failure of epic proportions, simply because this kind of thing happens. It's happened before, it's happening now, and it will happen again in the future. I'll never buy from Ubi, that's for sure.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    8. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Tokerat · · Score: 1

      and those who pirated the game are paying right now, unrestricted

      *playing right now. Obviously, those with pirated copies haven't paid, why that's the whole point...

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    9. Re:The Moral of the story is... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      But we all know this is never going to happen and people will keep buying their products.

      Hah. That alone is a good reason they shouldn't be worrying about piracy.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      games have no value in the first place, i pirate because i dont want to support the industry, same reason i dont pay for porn.

    11. Re:The Moral of the story is... by thalassinos · · Score: 1
      Embargoe Ubisoft games on all platforms, not just PCs.

      In my house we have 2 gaming PCs, 2 Wii, 1 XBox 360 and 1 PS3. For the Wiis, PS3 and XBox we have more than 120 games. Out of those games, I only have 3 Ubisoft games and those were gifts for the kids that I didn't want to be bothered to return them back.

      Ubisoft has pissed off many gamers, and these gamers buy games for multiple platforms; their anti-consumer behavior is costing them sales not only on the PC platform but in the consoles too.

    12. Re:The Moral of the story is... by fastest+fascist · · Score: 1

      Yep, this is like the mob running a protection racket, except only beating up the people who do pay up.

    13. Re:The Moral of the story is... by Kijori · · Score: 1

      And the problem with the traffic fatality situation is that people get into car accidents, and the problem with heart disease is that hearts are not indestructible. True, but not helpful in terms of finding a solution.

      On the contrary, I would argue that in the case of your first example that is the most important step toward finding a solution.

  11. No more dealing with Ubisoft for me by times05 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just had a great experience with Ubisoft DRM a few weeks ago. I decided to replay Farcry 2, which I really didn't play that much when I bought it a year or so ago. I'm military, I move a lot, can't find the stupid booklet with CD key, so being a legitimate customer who BOUGHT the damned game I go on their site and ask for help. Game apparently needs a CD key that activates itself online and requires registration and account creation (which I did create, and logged in with that account...). Their reply summed up is "Send us 5$ + S&H and we'll send you a new CD key. Check/cash/money order will do". My reply was taking 5 minutes to find a 24k cracked .exe file that allowed me to skip through all their BS. That was the last game I buy from Ubisoft. This new DRM scheme is even worse. For me for example, I deploy, I don't have internet everywhere. Which means I can't play an uncracked version of Settlers 7. I've never even played Settlers, I don't know what it is, nor will I ever get exposed to it because I know of their retarded DRM schemes. I imagine that this will turn away a lot of other paying customers from Ubisoft franchises. PS: Farcry 2 sucks, no wonder I played it for an hour when I bought it a year ago.

  12. I've heard that before by HangingChad · · Score: 1

    They've recently said it's "vital" to the success of their games and promised that their DRM would "evolve and improve" over time.

    Microsoft said the same thing when they started product activation. Although, in fairness to Microsoft, their DRM works better than this disaster.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  13. The new Splinter Cell Conviction by garlicbready · · Score: 1

    The funny thing is, when the new Splinter Cell Conviction comes out over here in the UK
    I was going to actually buy the PC version
    but after reading the above and this http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/16/splinter-cell-dev-defends-ubisofts-always-on-drm/
    I'm actually really tempted to pirate the thing
    (or perhaps get an xbox given that Sony's screwed me over with the whole otheros thing)

    1. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why pirate it? Is your sense of entitlement so great that you couldn't simply go without a game that goes against your principles?

      People need to stop considering piracy as a viable alternative, and start considering other products instead. Making a stand without making a sacrifice isn't going to prove the thing you want it to.

    2. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by masmullin · · Score: 1

      Piracy is the worst thing you could do in this situation.

    3. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by rxan · · Score: 1

      Mod +1 Hero

    4. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by Donkey_Hotey · · Score: 1

      Mod +1 Hero

      Mod -2 An Hero

      --
      (There is supposed to be a Sarcmark® here, but my $1.99 check hasn't cleared, yet...)
    5. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1

      Why pirate it? Is your sense of entitlement so great that you couldn't simply go without a game that goes against your principles?

      Nope. No sense of entitlement, no piracy. I was amazed at how easy it was to just ignore teh hawt n00 gamez completely and just do something else. The Big Blue Room is pretty fun. My Kayak is fun. Walks in the woods are fun. Bicycle rides are fun. Old games are very replayable. GOG is pretty good at offering games I wanted to buy but didn't - more than I have time to play. DRM is a waste of time, because it can't force me to buy the game and it can't make me want the game. It can make me hate the game. The effort spent on preventing piracy is wasted since I don't do it. Really, I don't. Haven't played Bioshock, Portal or any other game made in the last 5 or 6 years. None. I don't miss them and I value my freedom more. I'm patient and will wait for the GOG version to come out, or the bargain bin version, or I just won't play the game. No big loss. Hey game companies: Spend a little effort on giving me a reason to buy, and you might make some money. Spend effort on trying to control me and you can go fuck yourself.

    6. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      no i think its the best response. it says, "if you will act like an asshole, i will also act like an asshole." and that is good. if someone cons you out of 60 bux, you should con them out of 120 bux.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    7. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by twidarkling · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, pirating sends a damn better message than not buying/playing. Pirating says "You made a good game, which I want to play, but something in your system has made me not want to reward you." In most cases, that something is DRM. The other alternatives are usually "price," or something. However, "It's a terrible game" isn't one of the options considered."

      If you don't play it at all, the message usually comes out instead as "You made a game that isn't worth my time." Thus, no message about the DRM is sent on an individual basis. Instead, you're commenting on the quality of the game. If you're *lucky,* they'll expend more resources in making a better game.

      Hell, I'm usually tempted to download games I've no intentions of playing, simply to bump the numbers.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    8. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by masmullin · · Score: 1

      Mod +3 Super Hero

    9. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by masmullin · · Score: 1

      well, dont cry when they sue you for 20,000 bux.

      They own the government, don't think it wont happen (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/03/30/2352256/New-Litigation-Targets-20000-BitTorrent-Using-Downloaders)

    10. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by Kalriath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, pirating sends a damn better message than not buying/playing. Pirating says "You made a good game, which I want to play, but something in your system has made me not want to reward you." In most cases, that something is DRM. The other alternatives are usually "price," or something.

      No, it tells them "I'm a cheap bastard, and don't want to pay for your product. Please make the DRM stronger so that I cannot succeed at this."

      Well, that's what they hear anyway. It also happens to be true in a lot of cases.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    11. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by judeancodersfront · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and you think that will then get them to make DRM free games????? All you've done is started an asshole war.

      The only way to show your non-support is to support competing products. Otherwise you're telling them that their game is of value to you but you don't want to pay for it.

      Not that I have any faith in pc gamers to protest this properly. They're one of the worst groups on the internet when it comes to having a sense of entitlement. I say this as someone who has bought about a dozen video cards in the last 10 years.

    12. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      i dont think they can sue me for 20000 bux over a 50 bux game. if they do that i will sue them for a million bux over selling me a broken game.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    13. Re:The new Splinter Cell Conviction by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      the thing is i dont have any problem with drm. use as much drm as you want. but that drm should not interfere with my gameplay. so i dont necessarily want the drm to be removed. i just want the game to work without hassle. the best way to acheive that target is thepiratebay.org.
      also, if i pirate my game, does that also not show my non-support? why do i have to buy a competitor's product to show this?

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  14. The moral of this story. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The moral of this story seems to be that it is a bad idea to buy a game just before a major holiday."

    The moral should be to boycott any company who imposes such strict DRM into their products.

    1. Re:The moral of this story. by Metasquares · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the moral isn't that it's a bad idea to buy a game before a holiday, but that it's a bad idea to buy a game with DRM.

  15. Pushing the Limits by headkase · · Score: 1

    Notice that somewhere along the way with PC purchases that generally you lost your ability to resell your purchase? Just another casualty in the piracy wars. At least I can go into EB Games and buy used Xbox 360 titles, PC titles nope and the PC title section seems to be getting smaller and smaller...

    --
    Shh.
    1. Re:Pushing the Limits by Nf1nk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now more and more x360 games are coming with one time only codes that you need to unlock a significant portion of the game. Forza 3, for example, had a bonus track area and a ton of bonus cars. mass effect 2 had a very effective character locked out by default but was unlocked with a one use code. I would expect that in the near future this trend will accelerate.

      --
      I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
    2. Re:Pushing the Limits by Slider451 · · Score: 1

      What very-effective character are you talking about in ME2? Zaeed? He's bolted-on DLC and completely forgettable. As was the Cerberus armor for Shepherd. I stopped using it as soon as I realized I couldn't remove the helmet. Note: I played the PC version. Maybe the Xbox version was locked down more than I was aware. Fortunately a full-time connection to the "Cerberus Network" wasn't required to play with the DLC.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
    3. Re:Pushing the Limits by twidarkling · · Score: 1

      "Very effective character"? Dude sucked hard.

      As for one-time codes, I'm fine with them, as long as a) there is an alternative means to get the content, and b) the price of the used game reflects the missing content that must be purchased. Basically, places like Gamestop aren't going to be able to charge $5 less for a used copy than for "new," (leave it in the damn shrinkwrap, douches), since you then need to lay out another $5, $10, however much to get the rest of the content. It would also be nice of them to release the content for free in some manner if they ever decide to not support its purchase/downloading any more.

      --
      Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
    4. Re:Pushing the Limits by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Still haven't played Forza yet, but Zeed is hardly a special character. I played my entire second time through on the hardest level without ever using the codes simply so I could make sure my saves would work on installs without him.

      First time through I used him once or twice and then realized there were 2 other chars that are virtually identical to him.

      So far I've not seen anything done with the one time codes that bothers me other than I know its going to get worse and that their just being pricks to renters/used buyers.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    5. Re:Pushing the Limits by gwdoiron · · Score: 1

      No, I think you don't understand. Elimination of 2nd hand sales was the real reason they introduced these DRM measures.

    6. Re:Pushing the Limits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pretty much irrelevant when it comes to piracy. The pirates pirate the DLC, too. Mass Effect 2, as you mentioned, had a ton of that promotional DLC, and an awful lot that you technically couldn't get at the same time unless you pre-ordered copies from multiple retailers (different retailers offered different DLCs), plus some from some marketing tie-in with coke or pepsie or something. The torrent sites had them all in an easy to use download pack so you could have them all at once.

  16. Game Copy World by linzeal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I use Game Copy World, esp on old DRM that requires the CD/DVD to be in the drive all the time. There is simply no reason why we should be tolerating DRM on any media, it would be like requiring a Captain Crunch decoder ring to read a book.

    1. Re:Game Copy World by zarthrag · · Score: 1

      Used it for years. Ironically, to crack my own games. I didn't accept having to have a CD inserted at all times, in the age of multi-terabyte harddrives. Why in the h*** would I commit to uninterrupted sockets that add no value to my gameplay? Even if I purchase a game like that (our of sheer gotta-have-it desire) it will be after a crack is available. It's my disk, I'll do what I want.

      --
      Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
    2. Re:Game Copy World by antdude · · Score: 1

      Is there a way to use no CD?DVD for Battlefield 2. I notice the game kicks me off for using it when I play online. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  17. Requirements by Metabolife · · Score: 1

    When your DRM requires you to have a working internet connection for no other reason than the DRM, you're doing something wrong. It's supposed to be seamless and unobtrusive, using channels already in use by the game. Soon enough the system requirements will be elevated just to accommodate the DRM. Oh yeah.. that's why safedisk exists.

  18. Show them it was a bad move by Seto89 · · Score: 1

    It's time to let them know how bad of a move it was. Don't buy their games (even though no full cracks exist) - buy direct competition, scan the receipt and send it to them, explaining that this money was originally intended to go for their product.

    I'm a long time Splinter Cell fan. I own all four PC versions and was looking forward to play Conviction. Criticism about making the genre more action packed aside - I was still looking forward to the game. Now I'm not going to buy it, because such DRM is just ridiculous. I'm going to buy Alpha Protocol and send Ubisoft my receipt.

    --
    There are two kinds of people - those who are radioactive and those who have already decayed..
  19. No problems here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know what all the fuss is about. I've been playing Assassins creed 2 for a while now and haven't experienced any problems. Of course, I downloaded the game and use the server emulator to get around the DRM...

  20. "evolve and improve"? by syrinx · · Score: 1

    Ubisoft DRM becomes self-aware. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

    DRM fights back.

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
  21. Its a lovely ship, I hope you go down with it. by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Well boys... Its a lovely ship, I hope you go down with it.

    -Mel Brooks (Spaceballs)

  22. Some things were better in Sovet Russia by Ndymium · · Score: 1

    In corporate America, game plays you!

  23. DRM or no DRM, by Kenja · · Score: 1

    avoid gams that done work.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:DRM or no DRM, by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      avoid gams that done work.

      is that your normal behavior or were you in some kind of super-urgent hurry? :P

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    2. Re:DRM or no DRM, by masmullin · · Score: 1

      i hury. done wan wat exprs self

  24. Sympathy by CSFFlame · · Score: 1

    I sympathize for the people who bought this without knowing about the DRM, and hope they hold it against Ubisoft only and not PC Games in general. I have no sympathy for the people who knew about it and bought it anyway.

  25. Back in the day.... by Ozlanthos · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Remember Doom? How about Quake, Quake 2, and Unreal Tournament? If you've been playing computer-based FPS games for over a decade like I have, you KNOW these games. Why? Is it because they were so freaking wonderful that EVERYONE had to play them? No.... In my mind the popularity of these games was rooted in the fact that they were (for their time) kick-ass games, but primarily their popularity lie in the fact that you could install them on as many computers as you'd like. With one legit (or otherwise) copy you could start up a LAN party and frag the night away. Then long after the Dew and pizza was gone, you'd swear on your Redeemer that next time you'd kick the crap out of that 12 year old (who incidentally LIVES on UT) who gleefully pwn'd you for the majority of the night. But how? You didn't have a high-speed internet connection with which to dl the game, and despite his age, the pre-pubescent pwn-pro has nuts enough to tell you to "buy your own damn copy!" You already KNOW that you like the game, and your thirst for vengence is just enough to get you to cough up $29.99.

    The above mentioned process made millions of game sales possible. Not DRM, not other anti-piracy policy or provision, just the ability to entertain 10 plus nerds on a single copy. Despite whatever other goals game developers may have, selling copies is the ultimate goal. That being said, things like DRM, and excessive prices (which would be much less without having to pay DRM developers) dissuade gamers like me. Oh well as long as nubes are dumb enough to buy games they have to pay for monthly, or have the digital equivalent of the great wall of China protecting against their copying their games, game makers will keep on plodding along.

    -Oz

    1. Re:Back in the day.... by masmullin · · Score: 1

      You didn't have a high-speed internet connection with which to dl the game

      So your point is that piracy didn't exist 10 years ago because people were on dial-up. k thanks for playing.

    2. Re:Back in the day.... by Ozlanthos · · Score: 1

      No my point was that playing the game (pirate copy or otherwise) made me want to buy the games I did. Sure there are some leechy douches out there, but for the most part, I believe that the fact you could freely copy and share motivated a great number of sales for games like Quake, Q2, Unreal, UT...etc. The dial-up thing was an element of my specific experience.

      -Oz

  26. Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by unity100 · · Score: 1

    its like the 'legolas' of pc games. it caters to a huge gamer demographic ranging from 12 years old to 30 years old. with the hype and cult around the first game, ac 2 was bound to be a success REGARDLESS of what happened.

    maybe thats why they chose to debut their shitty drm with ac2 instead of any other game.

    1. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by MemoryDragon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Did not work out, it went into the top 10 and went out straightly after 1-2 weeks in every country, in case of AC2 the DRM really hurt the sales, it probably would be in every top 10 list still if it had not such a draconian non working DRM.
      And btw. the game is fully cracked as someone has posted there is a full server emu!
      It took ubisoft millions to develop the DRM it took the crackers 4 weeks to write a fully working emulator :-)

    2. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by destrowolffe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I got a free steam copy with purchase of a new i7 860. Seriously though, having to be online, register a ubisoft account, login every time I play the game, and remain online while playing for a single player game is ridiculous.

      If Ubisoft want me to ever buy another one of their games (and I'm a big Tom Clancy game fan) then the DRM will have to go away or change significantly from this non-sense. Especially since I know it would take all of 20minutes or so to find, download, and install a cracked version of the game for free with less hassle.

      I don't claim to be the pulse of the nation, but I am one customer who will no longer be a customer. I don't think I'm particularly unique in this regard.

    3. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      And btw. the game is fully cracked as someone has posted there is a full server emu!

      Sweet, where do I get it?

    4. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by unity100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      go buy your games from gamersgate.com (steam creates issues with patching or mods generally) and get the 'outsourced' server emulator fix from razor1911.

      these good people, without being paid, have fixed ubisoft's clients' problem for ubisoft, i hear.

    5. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      it took the crackers 4 weeks to write a fully working emulator

      And most of that was building the challenge / response database from volunteers who bought the game and were running a proxy to capture them.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    6. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      And btw. the game is fully cracked as someone has posted there is a full server emu!

      Sweet, where do I get it?

      If you have to ask, you can't be trusted to use it wisely.

      By which I mean seed.

      Fucking leech.

    7. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Publishers will always try to protect the investment but if you make something so complex you end up with paying customers who can't use what they paid a license fee for and you drive them away and your actually spending money to lose customers.... This doesn't seem to be sustainable business model. Your comments are right on the money.

    8. Re:Assassins' Creed 2 would be success at any rate by valduboisvert · · Score: 1

      You are right. DRM for single player games is absolutely a retarded idea. And look what happened. AC2 emu server got a lot of popularity. People are updating the response database many times per day ! I would be curious to find out how many people from those who are using the emu server actually bought the game and are using this hacked version just out of frustration.

  27. Just use the "fake" server.. it's more reliable by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Predictably, if you bought the game you might be better off with this torrent:

    1 - Unrar offline server folder on desktop;
    2 - Edit your "hosts" file in "C:windowssystem32driversetc" by opening it with notepad and adding the folowing lines, then save:

    127.0.0.1 static3.cdn.ubi.com
    127.0.0.1 ubisoft-orbit.s3.amazonaws.com
    127.0.0.1 onlineconfigservice.ubi.com
    127.0.0.1 orbitservice.ubi.com
    127.0.0.1 ubisoft-orbit-savegames.s3.amazonaws.com

    3 - Then run "ipconfig /flushdns"

    4 - Finally, run server.exe and start your game.

    (Enter an id and password (what you wanted). Do not register)
    Keep the same ID and password for next time, in order to resume play where you left off.

    http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5496065/Assassin_s_Creed_2_Crack_(Final_and_complete)

    1. Re:Just use the "fake" server.. it's more reliable by teh31337one · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once again, the pirates get the better game, while people who pay for the game have to put up with the DRM. Bravo Ubisoft, bravo.

    2. Re:Just use the "fake" server.. it's more reliable by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      Can't even blame it on the pirates this time, since Ubisoft knew it'd be cracked on day 0. :/

    3. Re:Just use the "fake" server.. it's more reliable by Stray7Xi · · Score: 1

      4 - Finally, run server.exe and start your game.

      What's even better is you can run this server in a sandbox with very limited system privileges and the game executable needs no modification. I've never seen a scene release with malware but I have seen a couple in some independent cracks.

  28. Defective by Design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What's broken with the tagging here on Slashdot that this article is not tagged defectivebydesign?

  29. Message to the Pirates by masmullin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hello Pirates, or shall I say AHOY!

    I am not against piracy, I think it's a terrific method to get free shit. However for this situation, using the "Im going to Pirate this game to stop teh 3\/i! DRMers" is an counter-productive move.

    If you pirate these games simply 'on principle' software companies will adjust themselves with stronger DRM.

    For these games, the publishers are willing to give up a certain portion of their profits in order to change the culture of PC gaming towards the standardization of using Draconian DRM Systems (DDRMS) in their games. Their goal is to make it 'normal' for players to buy games w/ DDRMS.

    The most effective methods of fighting this DDRMS from least to highest are:

    6. DDoS the DRM servers (I do not condone this action because it is illegal)
    5. Do not buy the game
    4. Do not buy the game and evangelize to friends and gamers why THEY should not buy the game
    3. Buy a non-DRM game
    2. Download an Open Source video game
    1. Donate to an Open Source video game.

    The most effective methods of HELPING this DDRMS from least to highest are:
    4. buy the game
    3. buy the game and tell your friends how awesome the game is
    2. pirate the game
    1. Donate money to UbiSoft to help they promote the DDRMS (I expect that other companies are quietly backing UbiSoft here)

    1. Re:Message to the Pirates by jimicus · · Score: 1

      How are Ubisoft (and the wider games industry) supposed to tell the difference between options 1-5 on your "effective" list and pirating?

      I think players who are not prepared to buy the game should write directly to the CEO of Ubisoft explaining that they're not buying the game, explaining why.

    2. Re:Message to the Pirates by blahplusplus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "If you pirate these games simply 'on principle' software companies will adjust themselves with stronger DRM."

      You're under the illusion that companies CARE about their customers, they don't and it won't change.

    3. Re:Message to the Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're losing sight of the objective. It's not about making a political statement or encourage game distributors to ship without DRM -- it's about playing the game, and playing it on your terms without restrictive DRM.

      As long as we can count on DRM being reliably cracked (and let's be fair, it's a pretty safe assumption) there's no incentive to stop pirating -- we'll gain access to the latest and greatest games, and we can play it the way we like. Furthermore, the suckers here are the ones that purchases the game legally, which is just yet another reason to go the pirate route instead. And like xkcd pointed out some time ago, I'm likely to be a criminal either way.

    4. Re:Message to the Pirates by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      the major flaw in your plan is this:
      i want to PLAY the fucking game and i want to play it WITHOUT the drm. if there is an easy way of completing this objective of mine, i will follow it. i simply dont CARE about fighting this 'ddrms'. i dont care about open source/open source games/open source programmers/linux/rms. the courses of action you advise do not help because i wont be able to play the game i want to play.
      will all you people who keep chanting 'dont buy, dont pirate' understand this?

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    5. Re:Message to the Pirates by masmullin · · Score: 1

      please read my post closer. It's directed at the people who want to pirate the game on the principle that drm is wrong and that piracy fights this.

      Since all you care about is yourself and your selfish desires, there's no point in arguing with you.

    6. Re:Message to the Pirates by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      i think the world would be a much better place if everyone was totally selfish. think about it.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    7. Re:Message to the Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blah, Blah, Blah... I have been part of the Scene since groups like TDT and THE FiRM were around, this is something that will not change... 1st it was DiskROM (on apple IIe and comodore 64 remember?) then stupid decoder books, then it was cd-keys, now DRM... and probably 20 years from now, it will be an RFID Chipset up your ass.....

      What ever security is written and built by highly intelligent midget men from china or india, will be broken by 14yr old hackers during breakfast.

      I bought Settlers 7 after pouching it for weeks on The Bay... and I dont regret it, but had I found it for "free" I would have downloaded it the same. DRM is the reason i play more on my XBOX360 than my PC or MAC... Heck I play more on my iPhone than on my PC for the same stupid shit.

      Then again, people will buy your games if you make quality shit, look at Blizzard for the love of pete! Sure their game gets pirated but I think it's evident they are a freaking cash cow...

  30. It could work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do not plan on buying any DRM related content. It seems wrong to place any requirement on the user unless it is required for the game (i.e. constant internet connection would be ok if it was an MMO). But the games with single player, and or LAN multiplayer should not require this, or any other type of DRM. I also dislike games that use the Microsoft LIVE interface.

    I see the value of games in terms of their multiplayer capabilities (so no multiplier would make a game useless). So when I am playing on the internet, it would be fine for me if the game validated itself every 500ms or so, if i am playing LAN then it shouldnt check... and lastly start putting co-op in to every FPS you lazy n00bs

  31. Re:Customers? What customers? by masmullin · · Score: 1

    exaggerate much? The worst thing that can happen to Ubi is that they stop using the DRM and go back to being pirated.

  32. The Main Problem by sonicmerlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here's the thing. Multiple studies have demonstrated that the most prolific pirates are also the most voracious consumers, purchasing far more material than the average, casual gamer. These companies don't seem to understand that piracy does not correlate to a loss of sales. If anything, as a recent Arstechnica article mentioned, it may *increase* sales as people are able to legitimately sample the product and decide to buy either the current or future releases.

    The real problem is that the executives and CEOs of these companies are performing their duties on behalf of the shareholders. The shareholders see people using their company's product for free, and like greedy little children who want to have their cake and eat it too, equate every torrent download with a lost sale. Even if it's not a true correlation, they can't stand the idea of someone using their stuff without adding to their pockets. If the shareholders don't recognize the value that targeted piracy, or even *demos* as the recent article about Crytek demonstrated, can have for a company, then nothing is going to improve, and the CEOs will keep shooting themselves in their foot trying to "stop piracy", all the while punishing their customers in the process.

    What we need are more studies conducted by independent third parties to assess the true affects of piracy on sales. And I don't just mean a straight-up numbers analysis. I'm talking about determining the sociological implications of piracy, and its effects on buyers' habits over the long-term. Once these studies are performed we need to educate people about the *actual* conclusions, not some made-up garbage by the RIAA or other entrenched schemers.

    1. Re:The Main Problem by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      I dont know about you but i like to eat my cake. Isnt that why its there?

    2. Re:The Main Problem by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      What we need are more studies conducted by independent third parties to assess the true affects of piracy on sales. And I don't just mean a straight-up numbers analysis. I'm talking about determining the sociological implications of piracy, and its effects on buyers' habits over the long-term. Once these studies are performed we need to educate people about the *actual* conclusions, not some made-up garbage by the RIAA or other entrenched schemers.

      You know what has a big impact on me buying stuff? Not getting what I paid for.

    3. Re:The Main Problem by BigSlowTarget · · Score: 1

      Shareholders don't care a whit about piracy. They care about profits. CEOs don't care a whit about shareholders as such but they care about looking good to shareholders, their own fame, reputation and the compensation committee. The connection between piracy and lost income might be an executive ploy to blame losses on something besides their own lack of innovative development and their tendency to drive off real talent but it is NOT because the some pension fund is pushing the concept that piracy is impacting the quarterly reports.

    4. Re:The Main Problem by chilvence · · Score: 1

      It's a saying that makes sense in the original word order - wanting to eat ones cake, and have it too (ie keep it).

  33. Why do people put up with this rubbish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Seriously why do people put up with this treatment by game developers? Its not like a cracked version wont be comming out within days if not hours of the games release. This just seems like a very good reason to say "Fxck you, i'll take the free version thanks". If I like a game, I buy it. I refuse to be bullied into it by a bunch of money orientated tools.

  34. You get what you pay for. by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

    Or in this case, what you deserve.

  35. Boycott by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The best solution is to just boycott this kind of companies. Stop buying their products. Educate others to do the same.
    Basically you need to talk to them in the language they understand: money.

    1. Re:Boycott by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      The best solution is to just boycott this kind of companies. Stop buying their products. Educate others to do the same.

      Won't work. They'll blame piracy for their losses.

      The most effective thing I've seen so far is a flood of one-star reviews on Amazon on Spore. Go look that up.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  36. Not only that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But once the protection has been figured out, future cracks will be faster. When a new DRM is introduced, it does take some time for crackers to figure out how it works and get around it. The more different it is from past DRM, the longer it takes. Thus this DRM, being custom Ubisoft stuff that's never been seen, takes longer than SecuROM or the like.

    Ok but one they figure it out, and they have, well then in the future it'll be much faster. While the details will change, the base workings are going to be the same and thus not take so long. In this case it may be even easier as the method used seems to be to just emulate the server.

    No matter, it is a losing battle for Ubisoft. They can invest the time and money to make a totally new DRM system for each game if they like, but they'd lose money due to the development expense and it'd still get cracked.

    Game companies really need to knock it the fuck off. You can't make an uncrackable game, so stop wasting your money trying. Also all the people pirating are NOT lost sales. The vast majority would simply do without if they couldn't get it for free. Make good games for a reasonable price with nice extras for paying customers (things like achievements) and you'll find that your game sells fine. Pull shit like this and you'll lose sales because people don't want to deal with it. I was planning on getting AC2 and Settlers 7 but both are off my list because of the DRM. There are plenty of other good games out there (too many in fact, I don't have enough time to play all the games I've got) that have non-invasive or no DRM.

    I'm not unreasonable, I'll meet publishers half way, I can deal with some DRM so long as it doesn't interfere with my ability to play the game. However shit like this is a no go.

    1. Re:Not only that by rxan · · Score: 1

      You're making it sound a lot easier than it is. Just look at the satellite TV hacking scene as a parallel. As soon as they change a code it can take months in order to watch anything again.

      Server handshaking is the most secure way and that's why Ubisoft has chosen this route. You can probably expect many more companies to do this in the future.

    2. Re:Not only that by GrumblyStuff · · Score: 1

      Isn't that different though? With TV, they have to beam the content. With games, well, the games are the content. Once you emulate the server, the only reason you'd ever be interested in pulling data from Ubi is if there was an update to fix some crippling bug in the game that prevent further progression.

      I wonder if that would be patentable.

    3. Re:Not only that by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Make good games for a reasonable price with nice extras for paying customers (things like achievements) and you'll find that your game sells fine.

      Slashdot has already proven this is bullshit - whenever a company tries this, everyone bitches about the "greedy company trying to remove our first sale rights" and saying they're off to get it off TPB. If they try releasing for a decent price, everyone bitches about how there's no demo, so they're off to get it off TPB. If there is a trial, they say that the trial isn't enough to work out whether they want it, so they're off to get it off TPB. If it's free but ad supported, they say that their privacy is worth more than that, so they're off to get it off TPB.

      It's about rationalising piracy, nothing else.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    4. Re:Not only that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

      Not at all. For one, I think you are making shit up, I've not seen this, but also you have to realize that not everyone who pirates games falls in to the same category. You are correct that some people just want to pirate and won't buy it. Well guess what? Those people don't matter. Reason is they are never going to be customers. They'll just do without if they can't get a free copy. So you don't need to care about them.

      The ones you need to care about are the ones that buy your games, but might not if you are assholes about it. I'd be one of those. I own a ton of games. I've got two shelves full of game boxes, 35 games on Steam, 20 on Impulse and so on. If I wish to have a game, I'll buy it. I've got money, not a big deal to me. Not only is it the right thing to do, but it is more convenient. I can have the game quickly and easily. However I will NOT buy games that include bullshit DRM like this. I don't own AC2 or Settlers 7, both of which I was looking at getting. AC2 in particular I was interested in. I own AC1 from Impulse (where is has only Impulse's DRM) and it was fun, but a little annoying. Well reading reviews on AC2, they said they took out or fixed all the parts of the game that annoyed me. Done then, worth buying. However, I read about that DRM and thanks but no thanks. I will not put up with that shit. I'll take my money elsewhere.

      Companies need to care about what their customers think, not the pirates. Pirates aren't customers, they don't matter. What matters is making people happy who are willing to give you money. Things like this, don't. They give paying customers a WORSE experience than those that pirate it. There is incentive not to pay for it.

      So they can bitch and whine and blame their lack of sales on "pirates". Sorry but it is because their DRM sucks, and I'll take my dollars elsewhere.

    5. Re:Not only that by ElberethZone · · Score: 1

      From what I heard from an Ubisoft employee, AC2 and Silent Hunter were not using the full potential of the DRM scheme because it was added late in the dev phase.

      For Settlers 7 it apparently uses it fully: most of the game economics processing is done on the server. A crack is still possible but that would mean recreate the economics engine completely by analyzing the answers from the official server.

      Very sad DRM, I already stated to this guy that I wanted to buy AC2 to play it but that I will not (and I won't pirate it either). I just consider Ubisoft games as non existing until that crazy DRM is removed (which won't happen I guess).

    6. Re:Not only that by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      AC2's DRM was vulnerable to replay attacks. Capture every possible challenge / response and you can fairly easily reproduce it. But what if each response was encrypted or hashed and included a salt value or date stamp? There's heaps of simple cryptographic techniques that can make this kind of DRM a heck of a lot harder to break. And may protect the game from cracking for long enough to justify it's existance.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    7. Re:Not only that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "..just emulate the server."

      and you 'just' need a space ship to fly to the Jupiter..
      this new DRM is tough and sooner or later it will become practically unbreakable like WoW

  37. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And you are still a troll.

  38. Always works fine for me by blarkon · · Score: 0, Troll

    Settlers 7 has worked *every time* for me. Not a problem. Same as C&C 4. Both require you be online during play. DRM is the last bastion for big game companies before they give up on publishing on the PC platform forever. A choice between DRM and trying to play settlers on a console because it won't be released on the PC? I'll take DRM. Game companies see the writing on the wall - and that is a generation of 'net literate people who will be as willing to pay for games as they are to pay for online television shows (go read the comments anytime Hulu whispers about maybe possibly charging a subscription rate).

    1. Re:Always works fine for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing how PC gaming is always juuuuuust on the brink of death, no matter what generation it is.

    2. Re:Always works fine for me by geekprime · · Score: 1

      blarkon,

      As far as DRM being the last chance for PC gaming, I call BS.
      I find it entirely ludicrous that on one hand you insist that without DRM they don't make enough money to make it worth staying in the PC market AND YET the games released on platforms with uncracked (for the most part anyway) DRM cost MORE than the games on the PC.

      Anytime a publisher gives up the PC platform, it just makes room for better more able companies to get games out on the shelves.
      It will seriously be no real loss to the PC gaming community if ubisoft takes their ball and goes console.

      As to it working fine for you, that may well be, I'm glad for you.
      However it is evidenced that it does not for many many people who also paid good money for a product they cannot use.

      As to your TV analogy,
      I pay for my on line TV the exact same way I pay for over the air TV, I watch the COMMERCIALS.
      That system has worked on broadcast TV just fine.
      Here's a fun fact, Commercial time on hulu costs MORE per min on a given show than the broadcast commercials on the same show AND the advertisers have a much better accounting of how many people have seen their ads.

      Technology changes things, time changes things, as a matter of fact change is pretty much the ONLY constant.

    3. Re:Always works fine for me by mysidia · · Score: 1

      That's because you are "special". And by special, I mean your IQ is about 15.

      If you were smarter, you would notice that's just the icon on your desktop, and the actual program isn't working right.

  39. Demand a Refund by purduephotog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course since the game has been opened, it can't be returned. It would be interesting to go the Credit Card approach that the item was not substantially as promised and provide the attempts at resolution that have been made.

    Execute a chargeback, and then when you're in the clear destroy your copy of the disk.

    (Personally then go outside and get some fresh air, but not everyone can do that)

    1. Re:Demand a Refund by emkyooess · · Score: 1

      This does work. I successfully got a charge back on Cities XL when it insisted on being connected to the Internet to load.

    2. Re:Demand a Refund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bad idea. Your bank doesn't care. All they see is, you paid for something and got it. It is not and should not be their responsibility to make sure that the person you bought from is okay. Unless you would like to not be able to use your credit card at Jose's Burritoes.

      You have a problem with something that you bought? You think that it's defective, but the company who sold it to you doesn't? Sounds like a finding of fact is required. Small claims court is the way to go.

    3. Re:Demand a Refund by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Of course since the game has been opened

      Yea, especially considering theres big bold letters on the box under the requirements that state that it requires an always on connection to talk to Ubisoft to play.

      You'd have a really hard time taking back an open box with that excuse since you didn't need to open the box to read the notice.

      Try again with something better than the tired EULA arguments.

      If you bought it and were unaware of the DRM, you're a moron and don't really deserve to get your money back. Maybe next time you'll read the requirements.

      Good luck with your chargeback, what are you going to tell them? 'I knew I couldn't return it after it was opened and I didn't bother to read the requirements on the box so its their fault!'

      No, you're going to have to lie about it if you actually want them to do something about it.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:Demand a Refund by purduephotog · · Score: 1

      Yes, I understand it needed to be connected to the internet. However UBISOFT has failed in their promise to provide the necessary connectivity to execute the game.

      Reminds me of a Dilbert- where Dogbert sells tickets on his 'Dogbert Air', but there are no planes.

    5. Re:Demand a Refund by RoboRay · · Score: 1

      The customer has an "always on internet connection." He's upheld his end of the bargain. It's the company that's not providing anything for it to connect to.

      I suggest you revise your definition of "moron."

  40. +1 Insightful by rockNme2349 · · Score: 1

    Already posted, but good post.

    Pirating games only supports DRM, and even better than just not playing the game is supporting games which do not use DRM.

    --
    Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
  41. Not awkward, cost prohibitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The filing costs of small claims court in Virginia are over $500, most of which are for serving the complaint out-of-State, and though one can sometimes recover those fees through the suit - not always - they must be paid up-front.

  42. It's not stealing by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 2

    Stealing is when you take something away from someone. When you copy something, the author still has it. Therefore it's not stealing. That doesn't mean it's not illegal. You can argue that it loses money to the author if you do it; but you can say the same thing about slander/libel/defamation. Surely if someone slanders a competitor, he stands to gain and the competitor to lose. Yet you're not calling it stealing, are you? Why don't you call copyright infringement slander, libel, or even identity theft or embezzlement? It's neither of those, anymore than it's stealing.

  43. Best part is reviews ... by MartinSchou · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of Denmark's leading national news papers, Politiken, has a really fun review of Settlers 7:
    Don't buy this outstanding game! (Danish article Translated article)
    Even rated the game 5 out of 6 but the DRM 1 out of 6

    And then they followed it up with one entitled " New Copy Protection Punishes The Law Abiding " (Machine translated article)

  44. Re:Customers? What customers? by twidarkling · · Score: 1

    No, the worst thing that is *likely* to happen is that. The worst thing that *can* happen is they hold on to it too long, damage their reputation beyond repair, and then even if they drop DRM completely, no one buys any of their games, thus leading to Chapter 7.

    --
    Canada: The US's more awesome sibling.
  45. Vital but deadly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If something is both vital but deadly, then the overall system is non-viable. DRM cannot be required if it drives off users in significant numbers. Either you make money on the 10% of game installs that aren't pirated, or you lose money with 100% of a meager number of installs. IMHO businesses are ignoring economics in favor of emotional responses to having their work "stolen".

  46. The moral of this story? by geekprime · · Score: 1

    FTS,
    "The moral of this story seems to be that it is a bad idea to buy a game just before a major holiday."

    Um, no the moral of this story is that DRM is beyond USELESS and only punishes the honest customers. I am sure that as usual the "pirates" are playing the game just fine.

    Another moral to take away is don't give your money to people that want to treat you like a thief EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE ALREADY GIVEN THEM MONEY.

  47. Thank you. by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    I'm about to go on vacation and figured I'd redownload Farcry 2 again and play it some while I was idling ... Thank you for reminding me that it sucked ass compared to one and ... I too stopped playing it about 2 hours after I started.

    Saves me several gigs of downloading, heh.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  48. Face reality: by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    With big companies like EA and Ubisoft, every detail in a game is solely designed to get to to pay for it. (I’m not using the term “buying” since you’ll not own anything.)

    If you’ve done that, then why should they care? They got the money, and everything else doesn’t matter.

    Now you will of course say, that people won’t buy the next game, because they will vote with their wallet.
    But fact is: People will buy the next game anyway. Just like they vote for the same lying party over and over again.
    Somehow a bit of marketing makes them completely forget what happened in the past.
    And I’m sorry, but there really is no reason for a company that only cares for money, to care about its clients, after they already paid.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    1. Re:Face reality: by masmullin · · Score: 1

      I was about to argue with you that gamers will not buy the next game... however I though to myself "would I buy a DRMed Elder Scrolls V?"

      I answered "maybe"

  49. Re:Oh, they'll remove it... by symbolic · · Score: 1

    If their customers would just grow a pair. Send that crap back, demand a refund. It's defective. Let them know, and that you'll FOLLOW THROUGH, by refusing to spend another dime on their DRM-tainted software. Faced with no (or very little) revenue *with* this ridiculous DRM, or a much healthier revenue stream without, they'd have only two options - concede their stupidity and remove it, or close up shop.

  50. What do you mean 'not resolved'? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    The resolution was simply not to by their shit. The resolution was in fact there before the problem.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  51. Dear Ubi, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am the Desmond Miles to your totalitarian DRM.

  52. Ubisoft DRM = Funny by Aronacus · · Score: 1

    I'm sure that right now as thousands of people are struggling to play there games the Pirates that this resource was meant to stop are playing it probably with a custom hack/patch or whatever. I sometimes wonder if crazy DRM is used to catch pirates Pirate :I was playing Settlers 7 all day today. Ubisoft: How could you the servers were down! all day because Joey, The Data Center Tech. decided to cook a cheese burger on the 24 core servers CPU. Pirate! Get him! I miss the old DRM days. you had a little pin wheel and it prompted you with a code and it was good!

  53. And what happens when they decided to no longer su by Aronacus · · Score: 1

    So right now everyones logging in with there AWESOME DRM servers with Ubisoft. But what happens when they stop supporting those servers. Then your great game becomes a $50 waste of money.

  54. Virus instead of DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rather than invest good money in DRM schemes that only harm legit customers; if I were UbiSoft I would covertly seed torrent sites with virii'd "warez" (deletes saved games once you get past a difficult part in the game)

    Use a dummy fake chinese company so you can deny involvement, and when the classaction lawsuit is filed on the dummy company, sue all the people who join the classaction.

  55. That approach will not help kill this DRM by LordZardoz · · Score: 1

    DRM is menat to solve the piracy issues. Advocating that people make the piracy issue worse for Ubisoft is only going to result in Ubisoft putting more effort into making an effective DRM solution.

    When software executivies see statistics regarding pirated copies, they are going to assume that every pirated copy would have been a sale for them if the software was not possible to pirate. This is of course a false assuption. It is not going to account for people who could not afford the game. It will not account for users who bought 1 copy legitimately and then made 3 or 4 copies so he could play at work and at a friends. It is not going to account for those users who are dipsh*ts and will just rip / steal illegal copies even if they were available for 2 cents each.

    Pirating a game is not a clear message of anything other then a user having an 'unauthorized' copy. If you want to indicate that the DRM is a factor you need to do something else, like starting a protest campaign that involves sending Ubisoft executives a small rock or some other useless object that has an obvious tactile presence. Mass e-mail and forum rantings can be dismissed as a few isolated and vocal cranks. But sending 6 tons of gravel from thousands of users who are annoyed sends a message that there are enough individual users who are pissed off to cover the cost of postage for 6 tons of gravel.

    In any event, Ubisoft's games are multi-platform, and piracy is less of an issue on the consoles. Even if no one purchased any PC games from Ubisoft, the end result would be that they would just stop supporting that platform. It would not put them out of business.

    END COMMUNICATION

  56. you deserve it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you buy this game and support such ridiculous DRM requirements, then you deserve it.

  57. Protection Is Futile! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    only 4 weeks?

    HA! your super DRM was defeated in just a month!
    Screw you, Ubisoft!

  58. Maybe an improvement from their perspective... by dustin_0099 · · Score: 0

    "evolve and improve" == "Become more invasive and restrictive" There's tons of other games out there. Why do people keep buying Ubi "our customers are theives" soft games?

  59. The PS3 has zero piracy by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

    and same with many MMOs. Like it or not tying DRM to a server or hardware can work. Not that I expect Ubisoft to make it work properly any time soon.

  60. Doesn't work that way by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

    you're basing your opinion on previous DRM where the same type of protection is repeated, i.e. cd-rom check. With server DRM you have far more options because you can make content dependent upon the server. It's much more than a simple check. A well designed system would keep game logic on the server so pirating the client is pointless. You'd need someone on the inside to leak the server code and even then you would still have a lot of work to do. Ubisoft's implementation was rather weak given the possibilities.

  61. Why wouldn't they ever be customers? by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

    Do you know their economic situations of all pirates?
    They obviously have an above-average computer and are interested in the game, so why do you give them the benefit of the doubt?

    I've met plenty of pc gamers that pirated single player games but always had money for their warcraft subscription.

    Yes Ubisoft is pissing people off with this but it's probably a last attempt at supporting pc gaming. Pirates are the real problem, it isn't as if DRM free games are pirated any less.

  62. So rent it on the 360 by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

    there are options other than piracy here.

    1. Re:So rent it on the 360 by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      but those other options don't allow me to do what i want to do: play the game. its like a tattered old man stranded in a desert asks you for water and you tell him, "well you know you could have something other than water." completely irrelevant and useless.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
  63. Such studies are stupid because they rely on polls by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

    Let's ask a hundred thieves if they only steal because they have to.

    Oh wow almost 100% respond yes.

    Let's just ignore the cases where they are stealing luxury entertainment for their own personal enjoyment.

    Companies can handle their own marketing. They'd rather not lose potential sales so they can have their game mentioned in a warez forum. When pc games are pirated at over 80% it's a joke to suggest that it is anything but negative.

  64. On the DRM industry and human motivation by jonaskoelker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Clearly the game was a runaway success, but the DRM was just not strong enough.

    It never is.

    Or, in case I'm wrong, it almost never is.

    So rather than making good games, is the game industry really in the business of inventing and attaching to games the DRM schemes which win the arms race against crackers?

    It seems that if you limit your talent pool to paid staff whom you subject to performance reviews, and the cracker army enlist the free time of passionate volunteers, the cracker army may be smaller in terms of wall clock hours, but it has better morale. If Sun Tzu is as correct as he is well known, we should expect the crackers to win, right?

    (In terms of human motivation and organization, the crackers work similar to the open source movement, I think)

    1. Re:On the DRM industry and human motivation by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I still think DRM is a large trick played on investors, promising huge profits if "we can just get this technology perfected". Probably so investors don't look at stuff like Farmville and go "why don't your multi-million dollar projects experience growth and sales like that?".

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:On the DRM industry and human motivation by Goaway · · Score: 1

      Actually, all they want to do is hold off the crackers for long enough that the people who must have the game right away have to buy it. Most of the sales happen right after release. At least, that's how they imagine it going.

  65. Philosophical nitpicking by jonaskoelker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree with you (the parent) more than your parent (my grandparent).

    That is, I agree with your conclusion but disagree with your arguments.

    Not everything that has the same outcome is the same thing. [...] Theft requires a physical deprivation. That's the critical point.

    Okay, so let's edit what your parent said:

    Theft:

    • User has the game
    • The previous owner doesn't
    • Ubisoft doesn't get any money

    Piracy:

    • User has the game
    • The previous owner also has the game
    • Ubisoft doesn't get any money

    I don't think you have disproven "things are equal if they have equal outcomes". Your parent just didn't describe the outcome in sufficient detail.

    And second hand sales doesn't prove your parents way of defining things wrong either: add the extra requirement that the previous owner of the game (the seller) has a freely accepted compensation---this distinguishes them from cases of theft.

    As a very philosophical point, the only description of outcomes that is sure to be sufficiently detailed is a complete description of the state of the world, suitable for your Laplacian Demon. Sometimes less will do, but you might need to keep adding more.

    Hmm... interesting. Thanks for making me think a little about this :-)

    1. Re:Philosophical nitpicking by brkello · · Score: 1

      The guy doesn't want to make a philosophical point. He just wants to gain karma for saying something everyone on here who has read for the last month already knows.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    2. Re:Philosophical nitpicking by laughingcoyote · · Score: 1

      Your points are very interesting, and probably more accurate than mine. So thanks to you too.

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  66. Dear Settlers 7 Owners... by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1

    ...the solution is simple.

    The game is not "fit for purpose" and, as far as I'm aware, that gives you rights as a consumer in most countries to return the game and get a refund of your money in full.

    Therefore you should either be going back to your local game store and creating a scene until you get a refund, or ringing up your bank/credit card company to put the card transaction into dispute if you bought in online.

    Backbones and DRM are mutually exclusive...

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  67. Re:Customers? What customers? by Nagrom · · Score: 1

    When the PC version of a game makes up 10% of sales I don't think bankruptcy from losing some of those customers is very likely. It's probably a higher proportion for Settlers, I guess, but I'm sure it's low for AC2. And when there are also figures available demonstrating that frequently even with non-pervasive DRM that pirated copies seem to number several times more than legitimate copies - see MW2 in particular - I imagine that publishers could easily be feeling that they don't have much to lose, regardless of some noise on some forums. (Mostly playing Devil's advocate here because I certainly don't condone this draconian scheme. But at the same time, the PC market is in such a state, and so many of its supporters apparently refuse to support it by actually spending money on the games they play, that I'm unfortunately unsurprised by any of these developments.)

  68. They don't need to be pirated less by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    If DRM free games aren't pirated any more, and it seems they aren't, then it's the superior choice. Why? Because the goal of a company isn't trying to prevent piracy, it is to maximize profits.

    Ok well DRM costs money. You either have to pay a purchase fee and per copy license in the case of off the shelf DRM, or development costs in terms of in house DRM. There's then additional cost to integrate and test the DRM with your game. You then have support costs to deal with the DRM problems that happen, and they do happen. In the case of online DRM like this, the costs of maintaining the servers as well. Finally there's the cost of people who, like me, just won't buy your stuff.

    So you need to add up all those costs, and be realistic about it, to figure out what the DRM actually costs you. Then you need to figure out if it increases your revenues by a non-trivial amount above that. For example:

    Suppose your DRM costs you a total of about $1,000,000 for a title. Now suppose you make $20 per copy sold (remember this is the publisher's take, not the retail price). That would mean you'd have to sell 50,000 additional units over no DRM to break even. So if you sold a 250,000 additional units, then it was well worth it. However if you sold only 10,000 additional units, then it was money down the drain.

    That is the thing here. DRM isn't free, it costs money in many forms, and I see no evidence it reduces piracy. As such it seems logical not to do it, or at least to only use DRM that is low cost and non-intrusive.

    You have to look at it like with a retail store. All retail stores face shrinkage, that is theft of products by customers and employees. Unlike piracy, this is a real loss situation as they lose the item and its associated value, not a potential sale (which they also lose). Now, a store could completely stop shrinkage. They could design a building with only one entrance and exit. At that entrance they could station armed guards, who strip search everyone, employee and customer, upon arrival and departure. This would reduce shrinkage to zero. It would also likely reduce sales to zero as nobody would shop there, and it would cost a ton to implement.

    As such what retail stores actually do is put in those scanners that beep if you don't demagnetize the strip, as well as put in some security cameras (some fake, some real). That doesn't stop shrinkage, it isn't hard to get around, but it deters the casual shoplifters and doesn't piss off the customers. There are better things they could do, but they don't because they are either cost prohibitive or they'd make people mad, which is again cost prohibitive.

    Same shit with game DRM. Sure, put in some simply, cheap DRM to stop people from handing the game out to all their friends, but stop pretending like invasive DRM accomplishes a damn thing. The pirates will crack your stuff, that it life.

  69. Sorry. by Elaugaufein · · Score: 1

    Oops , sorry about the block text, apparently /. does not like either Window's linebreaks or IE.

  70. Put the user first or die by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    >> They've recently said it's "vital" to the success of their games and promised that their DRM would "evolve and improve" over time.

    Yeah and a lack of DRM is "vital" to my purchasing decision. I promise that my software purchases will "evolve and improve" away from all UBIsoft products and those of any other company that doesn't put the user first.

    Lets see who cracks first shall we?

  71. Steam, not so bad... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    I do as well, which is why I said 'excessive'. Steam isn't that excessive.

    I do avoid games with SECUROM and things like limited activations. Crysis, for example. Anything that wants to root my computer for it's DRM - no way.

    I also avoided SPORE because of the comments I heard.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  72. They have a reason for the DRM... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I heard some estimates about how badly AC2 was pirated. 30 000 copies sold VS 2 000 000 hacked copies.

    It was the same with Prince of Persia and that one was DRM FREE.

    Before whinning about DRM, you guys gotta understand that, if they're doing this, it's because they have a damn good enough reason to do so! DRM free games do not sell better.

  73. on vacation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ubisoft used the same "on vacation" excuse after Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. came out and the multiplayer didn't work.

  74. My Solution by Boomshadow · · Score: 1

    I have a solution: turn the damn thing OFF!