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'Headphone Jacks Are the New Floppy Drives' (daringfireball.net)
According to the Wall Street Journal, Apple's upcoming iPhone won't have a 3.5mm headphone jack. The news has already upset many people. The Verge's Nilay Patel wrote on Tuesday that the decision of getting rid of the legacy headphone port is "user hostile and stupid." Apple commentator John Gruber makes a case for why Apple's supposed move is not a bad idea at all. He writes:Patel misses the bigger problem. It's not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It's enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port.He adds that the existing analog headphone jack "is more costly in terms of depth than thickness," and by getting rid of it, Apple could use the extra real estate to stuff in more battery juice. Addressing Patel's point that the move of ditching a deeply established standard will "disproportionately impact accessibility," Gruber adds that "enabling, open, and democratizing" have never been high on Apple's list of priorities for external ports. Gruber also addressed Patel's argument that introducing a Lightning Port-enabled headphone feature will make Android and iPhone headphones incompatible. He wrote: Why would Apple care about headphone compatibility with Android? If Apple gave two shits about port compatibility with Android, iPhones would have Micro-USB ports. In 1998 people used floppy drives extensively for sneaker-netting files between Macs and PCs. That didn't stop Apple from dropping it.As for "nobody is asking" Apple to remove headphone jack from the next iPhone, Gruber reminds: This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports. The essence of Apple is that they make design decisions "no one asked for".The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around for decades. We can either live with it forever, or try doing something better instead. History suggests that OEMs from across the world quickly replicate Apple's move. Just the idea of Apple removing the headphone jack -- the rumor of which first began last year -- arguably played an instrumental role in some smartphones shipping without the legacy port this year. If this is a change that we really need, Apple is perhaps the best company to set the tone for it. Though, whether we really need to get rid of the headphone jack remains debatable.
They've managed to find a way to force you into buying all new audio equipment, or at the very least, an expensive dongle. It's genius, it really is. You thought it was bad when Apple made hardware companies pay for the right to put that ipod port on there, to provide a better "experience" well... kiss your non apple branded EVERYTHING goodbye. God I hate these guys sometimes. We don't need to replace every piece of technology we own every 2 years you assholes
Plenty of new motherboards with onboard video still have VGA ports, judging by Newegg's and Fry's offerings?
apple wants the $29.99 for old ports wants to be more thin and git even more profit. What is next for the mac pro no analog audio out no e-net no full size usb. But for only $19.99-$29.99 each you can get that back.
It will kill your battery life and/or require you to purchase a bunch of f*cking dongles to charge your phone and use the headphones at the same time. Patel's list is right on the money. Most people can't even hear well enough to differentiate between the quality of analog vs digital and don't use music with that high of a bit rate anyway. Looks like I'm gonna be limited to the iPhone SE when I finally upgrade off my 5. I don't want a huge phablet and I want a god damn headphone jack.
Apple owns a headphone company, Beats.
Apple wants the power to tell you to use its headphones or get lost.
Apple makes that happen.
Headphone jacks = wired ethernet ports
I often have to used wired ports because of either poor connectivity or overcrowding of the spectrum. I expect bluetooth etc to eventually have the same problem when there are no wired headphones. Copper is good stuff. The radio ether....sometimes not the best!
The real reason....walled garden headphones. Things that only work with apple.... The wonderful world of perfect apple, who knows better than eveyone else. I love iTunes (of course sarcasm. No one is stupid enough to like iTunes).
What ever happened to Apple's patent on a magnetic jack?
The idea was that a normal headphone plug could be placed against an indentation on the phone, and the magnet would hold it fairly securely against the electrical contacts. That would allow it to be thinner and smaller than a normal jack that surrounds the plug.
I'm hopeful that these rumors of not having a headphone jack refer to a regular jack...
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
By the 1990s, floppies were woefully inadequate in capacity and needed to be replaced. In which way is a 3.5 mm analog jack inadequate at delivering audio?
All that bitching and moaning. You Apple fanboys just know that if Steve Jobs were still alive you would be lining up in the street for the new phone audio jack that only worked if you had to painfully shove it into your testicles at least every 5 minutes. Don't bitch about the monster company you helped create.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This Apple being weird and special again. The reason for ditching floppies was actually quite simple, it outlived its usefulness. It was replaced by CDs, DVDs and at a later time USB-sticks. There is no actual need for floppy disks and therefore FDDs are obsolete. This is however not the case for the 3.5mm jack. Apple likes to "innovate" by removing sensible things from their electronics. Their new Macbook, for instance, has only one single usb-c port and no other ports. You can call this strategy brilliant but in practice this means that people have to buy an extra adapter to connect all their peripherals to the one single usb-c port. It's not an improvement, it's a cashgrab and an annoyance. And naturally the Apple customers are gobbling it up.
The same holds here. What's wrong with the standard 3.5mm jack? It works, it's universal(and I believe unencumbered by patents) and the peripherals are everywhere. It's a solution that works and any "better" idea on audio should at least be included side-to-side with the old adapters as this will allow an actually better standard for audio ports to form. As it is, this is a simple money and power grab from Apple by making stuff incompatible. Sure, you can buy a converter, but knowing Apple this will cost you dearly. Apple is being annoying again and the audio peripheral market will suffer as this will gain traction as Apple has clout in the electronics world.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Why in tech must we call everything old "legacy" and then assume it should go away? Maybe some thing work well enough that they should always be there. Some things are well designed and don't need to be changed. The 3.5mm port is resilient, rotatable, and universally supported, and only slightly bigger than the latest tech now would be able to replace it with.
Just because it is analogue does not make it irrelevant. Your ears are analogue. Why add another level of technology, another thing to charge, putting a digital-to-analogue converter on every pair of earphones rather than just one in the phone...
I remember having to have an adapter for headphones on the T-Mobile G1 and old Nokia phones, and it sucked then, and it will suck now. And so what if Apple release lightning headphones. Do we think they make the best headphones? They make crap headphones when compared to actual audio companies.
This Apple apologist doesn't even try to make is sound good, just that Apple are going to do it anyway so you might as well get used to it.
USB-C and Lightning headphones aren't great news for everyone:
Phones are digital devices, and headphones require analog input. To solve that, every phone has a digital-to-analog converter (DAC) and an amplifier inside, which do exactly what the names suggest. The DAC converts the signal from ones and zeros to waves, and the amplifier makes those waves audible through a speaker or headphones.
The combination of these two parts (DSPs are also involved, but let's not overcomplicate things) is what makes phones -- or anything with a headphone port -- sound different from one another. If you listen to the same track, with the same headphones, on an iPhone 6S and a Galaxy S7, they won't sound identical, mainly because the two phones use different DACs and amps, which output slightly different analog signals through the devices' 3.5mm ports.
The DAC and amp, then, are the hidden link between your music app of choice and your headphones, and their importance can't be understated. The industry has gotten a lot better with DACs and amps in recent years, and the general standard of audio output from phones has risen, but there are still devices that are stronger and those that are weaker.
With the switch to USB-C (or Lightning) for headphones, your phone's DAC and amp (it'll still need one for the speaker) are being bypassed. That means this all-important component will now reside inside either the adapter (for your existing cans) or the headphones themselves (for USB-C or Lightning headsets).
Yes, you people desperately need audio that only plays in approved devices, and from approved audio sources only.
What is the rabble thinking when they dare to simply plug their thieving audio jacks to any unapproved speaker, allowing others to hear the music we rightfully own?
Love, RIAA
I have a nice pair of Bluetooth headphones with mic, and as nice as they sound, the lag they introduce is unacceptable. Especially when it's been a few mins and it has to wake the bluetooth connection, it can take a quarter to a half second before I hear something that would have already been played if it were on the built-in speaker or on wired headphones.
When watching video, it makes a big difference, it feels like something is wrong with the file. When using it for voice communication, it makes a small but annoying difference.
It's not just my headphones either, I've tried others. BT headphones (and most likely speakers) suck for anything time-sensitive.
This reinforces my decades old policy of avoiding anything Apple.
All your upgrade are belong to two years from now, when you start listening to your customers in the upper middle class, Apple
We said thin. We said more battery life or wireless near field charging. We said waterproof and bendable.
What was so hard with that?
Listen. To. Your. Customers.
And ask my ex-neighbor, your marketing VP what that means. She knows. Stop listening to the guys from Stanford, they're clueless.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
They could save 1mm by going to 2.5mm jacks. Those are reasonably standard and would require only a small (and inexpensive!) adapter for older headphones. My Bose noise-canceling headset uses a 2.5mm plug/jack into the actual headphones (cable is removable).
I suspect the loss of this jack may be somewhat related to improving water resistance; those 3.5mm jacks are deep and have lots of potential for leaking.
If this is a change that we really need, Apple is perhaps the best company to set the tone for it.
No. Other companies need to be involved.
3.5mm jacks are proven and they really can take a lot of abuse. I'm guessing that whatever they replace it with would be more fragile and not stand up well to the kind of abuse people wearing headphones are likely to give it.
How long before there is a Kickstarter to build an adapter that plugs into the Lightning port and provides Lightning pass through and a 3.5 headphone jack?
So what Apple is essentially saying is "hey, even though nobody asked us to delete the headphone jack, we're gonna do it anyway. So we can make the phone thinner, which is also something nobody is asking for. Meanwhile, everyone IS asking for greater battery life in our mobile devices, but we don't give a shit because we're Apple. We tell CUSTOMERS what they want and they LIKE it that way!"
Does this not strike anyone else as ridiculously arrogant? Would we tolerate this kind of behavior out of ANY other OEM on the planet besides Apple?
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Which means that you can't plug your earbuds or other listening device in while charging.... oh, unless you have a dongle that will set you back at least another $30... something that will probably *NOT* ship with the iphone.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
All I have been hearing is Apple, Apple, Apple. Yet from Motorola killed the headphone jack and nobody noticed 10 days ago
There are many interesting things about the Moto Z devices presented yesterday, ultra-thin handsets that bring modularity to Motorola’s lineup of mobile products. One of them is the lack of a 3.5mm headphone jack, which absolutely nobody noticed during the event.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
I don't give one hoot about Apple dropping the 3.5mm jack if the are providing a Lightning Port to 3.5mm adapter. The 3.5mm jack is fine in a larger device but it probably does need to go away in a modern, thin phone.
As far as port compatibility that some rant on about, if it means having a micro USB port on my iPhone then to hell with compatibility. I don't know how many broken USB ports I've had to to repair or replace on devices in my shop. The Lightning Port is a far more robust mechanical design.
Kudos to Apple for moving the industry forward!
You can buy a smartphone, with 3.5 mm jack for less than Apple's dongle will cost you.
As it stands they already make great home control panels/security devices. Cheap enough to put one in every room. Low power use and a solid sensor suite.
"Why would Apple care about headphone compatibility with Android?" I have a pair of reasonable headphones. They're about £30. I use them with my phone for music. My PC for music. My iPad for my German learning. I'm not an audiophile, but I find that's the price to get a decent sound. If you're forcing me to have a different jack, it doesn't just mean I've got to carry 2 pairs of headphones around, it also means that I have to buy another pair of headphones (which will be over £30, I'm sure). It means that anyone currently on Android, or who has spent out on good headphones with their iPhone has a new charge for iPhone upgrades, and it's another reason to switch to Android. And personally, I don't understand this fascination with making phones thinner. I'd rather have a slightly thicker phone and more battery life.
Apple has a bluetooth lock-in? How so?
I can buy bluetooth headphones, but at a 300% markup, because of Apple's bluetooth lock-in."
ANY Bluetooth headphones will work just fine. Not being an audiophile jerk, I listen to lots of stuff on my iPhone using El Cheapo Bluetooth headsets all the time. A fine trolling though, congrats.
Paul Lenhart writes words!
I upgraded to a new iPhone 6S earlier this year, rather than wait for the next model, as I didn't want to be without the headphone jack. At least I'll have a phone with one for another 2 years before I'm forced to change... I don't need a thinner phone - I need one with longer battery life.
When I was young, people would talk about the horrors of totalitarianism in Soviet Russia. I guess we only have Apple and North Korea to show us what it looks like now. But as for Apple customers, I have no sympathy: YOU decided to enter the walled garden. Enjoy your toilet paper ration.
Is that if you want to use macOs or iOs, you have to put up with hardware design which turns incompatibily and unmaintainability into an art form. If macbooks were designed like thinkpads, and imacs and mac pros like the hp Z workstation, life with them would be so much easier. Instead Apple has become a shiny toy company whose raison d'etre is to prise as much mone from the expensive end of the consumer market as possible.
John_Chalisque
"enabling, open, and democratizing" have never been high on Apple's list of priorities for external ports.
Since the very beginning. Even their serial port was nonstandard.
Ah well, at least the guy is being honest. Corporate psychopathy no longer needs to be hidden from view. The audience is captivated.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Have they considered how this will affect Square and other similar hardware and functionality?
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling
It's not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It's enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port.
So yes, it is about DRM: limiting what headphones can be put into the phone. Jerks.
Even audiophiles use standard jacks, so it's not a problem of audio quality.
Also, Apple has a habit of using weird ports, and unlike obsoleting the floppy, the weird ports have been a failure every time (except some designed by Woz back in the 80s).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Well not precisely - one of the early iPhones (I forget which) had the headphone jack recessed in a little hole. Problem was, the hole was big enough for the supplied earbuds but most third party headphones had plugs which wouldn't fit. So an accessory market sprung up for little extenders. It was so dumb, and so annoying.
I'm a somewhat reluctant supporter of Apple in general, but I do really like iOS devices. I like the lightning connector and wish it was used elsewhere (but I hope USB C is a good substitute). I appreciate that they popularized USB in general. But this is just annoying. I can't see myself buying a phone without a standard headphone jack any time soon, so I guess they just lost a customer. Adapters/dongles/whatever are the worst, and I have no interest in messing around with them.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
if you don't want one then don't buy it.
Floppies faded out because people stopped using them once better (as in, improved longevity and capacity) media came around. The new media were still physical and inserted into PC's, so they functioned rather similarly although in some cases you were trading magnetic degradation for scratching or failing dyes in the cheaper CD-R's.
Bluetooth is *not* a 1:1 replacement for regular headphones because
a) It requires power. That means another device that needs charging, and it can run out in inopportune moments
b) It doesn't give the same quality of audio (yes, it can be good, but even I can notice quality loss with BT headphones, usually in the top-end).
c) It requires power from the device. Having BT on - especially playing audio - is a drain on your phone's battery
Currently, I keep a pair of decent quality earbuds (the type with a mic) in my bag. They take up a minimal amount of room, and anytime I want to privately listen to music or have a private conversation I can. I also have a bluetooth headset, but I have to keep it charged up, dick around with pairing, etc before I can use it for a call. It's not nearly so small or convenient as my headphones, and while there are now standalone BT earbuds, with small size comes less battery (plus they're expensive).
I'm not going back to carrying an mp3 player and phone. When I did all I wanted was to combine them. I'm also not bothering with shitty wireless headphones. I wouldn't buy an iPhone anyway but if this trends not having a jack would remove a phone from consideration straight away.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
I want to pick headphones that fit and sound right, not have some cheesy overpriced shit like Beats forced on me. if I'm at home, I can use my AKG studios. at the exercise joint, earbuds off the rack at Tarzhay.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Heh, how laughable. Apple could add a lot more battery by making their already beyond-svelte iPhones 1mm thicker. No one is complaining about the phones being too thick any more, but they are complaining about battery life.
But as for Apple customers, I have no sympathy: YOU decided to enter the walled garden. Enjoy your toilet paper ration.
Right. When my 2006 MacBook died a few years ago, I transferred my data over to a Windows PC and continued on. Why? Because I'm using standard formats that interchangeable between Linux, Mac and Windows. If I decide to move away from my iPhone, nothing prevents me from moving to a cellphone with Android, Blackberry or Windows.
"This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports."
I still am, you insensitive clod!
Seriously, the VGA port on my Thinkpad 450s has been hugely useful for hooking up to legacy projectors, and the serial connection (via USB->DB9 serial adapter) lets me talk to all kinds of random devices. To heck with Apple and their walled garden. I do give them credit for duping their followers into believing they're freedom-loving rebels though.
specifically because they *don't* design macbooks like thinkpads and imacs like HP pcs.
Don't you idiots ever get tired of being so consistently fucking wrong about Apple all the time? Seriously? Do you enjoy looking like a fucking moron on the internet?
What's stopping a third party from making a Lightening to audio jack cable? Thus (again) allowing any headphone to work with the device.
soylentnews.org
Yep if it weren't for Apple we'd still be in the stone age installing windows 10 from 4216 floopy disks. All technical progression such as digital monitors would not happen without Apple.
Except the summary and the comments are a load of bollocks.The floppy drive was being replaced by many people, with efforts on multiple fronts. Apple was the first to remove it as having complete control over their platform meant their system didn't rely on things like floppy disks for recovery.
Let's ignore the people who developed and pushed for USB were Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Compaq, and DEC, ... there's a name missing from the list .... oh no there isn't Apple didn't have any hand in developing the USB successor. But hey the iMac had the first USB port so it must all be Apple's good work.
Speaking of Apple doing things. Which was the only computer company not part of the DDWG who created the successor to VGA? Oh that's right Apple didn't take part. But hey they're the reason we're not using VGA for some reason.
The idiot in the summary is nothing but a troll.
Clearly since Apple joined the SIG in a plot to take over Bluetooth and make it standards noncompliant in a plot to overturn those who don't worship Darth Jobs. Slashdot is no place to be rational. We have fanbois to pick on.
In 1998 the 1.4MB capacity of the floppy was already severely limiting. While there were still a largish number of system being used on a day to day basis that did not have some better alternative available like USB or writable optical of some sort and alternatives like Zip, Jazz, SuperDisk, SyQuest etc were hardly universal and not always even ubiquitous; it was clear to everyone that the floppy was limiting.
There were a lots of jobs where the floppy was perfectly adequate and even the easiest route but in 1998 it was possible to create a word processing document that did not fit on the standard 1.4MB diskette, all you needed was to include a high res picture or two. Once you had a single files to large for a diskette you were down the path of splitting them somehow which usually implied some software your recipient did not have and kill the whole universality thing. So people had good reasons to want to "move on" from diskettes beyond just the fact that Apple did not feel like offering diskette drives as standard equipment anymore.
Compare this with the 3.5mm jack (at least the modified and backward compatible 4 conductor variety that supports mics). It delivers just about everything you could want as far as getting audio headsets. It offers better fidelity than most of the alternative solutions, bluetooth etc. Its possible to run headsets with some smarts and implement signaling like vol up/dn, next track, in devices while still being compatible with cheapo dumb headsets. Its fairly rugged, easy to blow dust out of with canned air, being round a pulled cable usual 'pops out' without damaging either the cable or the receptacle at anything but fairly extreme angles. Essentially if offers me and I think most users just about everything they could want in an audio jack. Unlike the diskette of 1998 its not evident at least not to me that its facing near term inadequacy for any common application.
As to the thickness arguments, well the camera is really still the limiting factor there. The foot print of a 3.5mm jack in smart phone is not preventing larger batters, that is just strait up BS. Once you already have to have a bump out to accommodate the camera, I am not sure making the rest of the device thinner than that adds value, especially when almost everyone puts these things in some kind of protective box anyway. Most people I talk to use a case not only for protection but because the thing is so thin its actually akward to hold and operate one handed without it!
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Rather than having the phone send out an amplified analog signal, if the phone sends out a simple digital stream it would use LESS - not more - power. With a dongle it would use the same amount as it does today to convert to an audio stream, but if you had battery powered headphones they could do all of the amplification (and plenty of really nice headphones already do additional application in the headphones).
The DAC must exist somewhere.
.4 cubic centimeters of real estate they get from this change to "give us more battery power." They will be using it to make the phone slightly thinner. Which is something a lot of people care about... I guess?
Whether it's in the phone, or the phone-powered headphones makes no difference. There is no power savings to be had here, except in the instance where you are plugging it into a self-powered peripheral... which is probably not 99% of peoples' non-charging use case (headphones, car AUX). Power is an irrelevant argument.
This is such a dick move. I've maintained 2 phones for a long time (A personal Android phone, and a work iPhone) but I won't buy an iPhone with this "feature" unless they can make some kind of dual-connection dongle so that I can charge it while I listen to it.
And let's be real, I think we're all quite sure they won't be using the
The good news for me, is I won't be too terribly impacted. They have Apple Music for Android now, so I will just switch to using my Android phone for music
Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port.
That's supposed to be an argument for this change? I don't care if it's a good move for Apple, it's a bad move for me. My iPhone spends ~10 hours every day with something plugged into the 3.5mm jack between my car's auxiliary cable and my nice headphones at work. A new iPhone is already over $600, now I'm expected to get bluetooth installed in my car and toss my $200 headphones, or constantly carry an adapter cable, or buy 3 adapter cables to keep at home, work, and in my car? That's insane.
More evidence that technology is slowing down and they have to change standards to get people to re-buy new sets of incompatible accessories which will get people to spend any money.
Floppy's ultimate demise came about because of USB technology, which was superior and did much more than just a storage technology.
Somebody please enlighten me, what's the technology making 3.5mm redundant at this point?
Except that now you have to charge two items instead of one.
Amplified headphones tend to be a bit more bulky than ear buds to tote around.
Ear buds are cheaper to lose.
My car stereo has an aux jack but no BT.
Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
It will quickly become an 3rd world problem, though, as billions of electronics devices with 3.5mm jacks are scrapped as everyone rushes to the new Lightning/USB enabled headphones, and the 3rd world sits and disassembles, sorts, and burns all that trash...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
There isn't any alternative to the headphone jack. All headphones today use that analog port. Headphones don't have built in amps or digital to analog processors. I took a browse at all the best headphone s in headphone.com and earphonesolutions.com - they all use the port, none of them use USB or lightning ports. It would seem that headphone ports are not legacy and no replacement port has been devised.
Take the Shure SE-846 or Westone W6- I own both. Both come in headphone jack only variants. The cost to replace these headphones with something else would be $1000 each.
Apple might be telling users they will need to switch to external DACs and Amps instead.. I have used external DACs/Amps and they are bulky and normally larger than the size of the phone itself. They aren't compact. They use their own batteries etc and are not power efficient.
obamasweapon.com
Why would Apple make such a stupid anti-consumer change?
Beats me.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
You do know that MFi allows for 100 mA draw from the Lightning port, don't you? Most - probably more than 99% - of those Lightning headphones will NOT have batteries, they'll pull power from your phone to run THEIR circuitry to do the D/A and amplification - most of which STILL has to exist inside the iPhone because it still has speakers internally. That's what happens now with the few Lightning-equipped headphones on the market - the iDevice provides power to run everything.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
People go out of their way to make excuses for Apple design decisions. If Microsoft had done something similar I would be looking a at Bill Gates borg icon on the article, and people would be calling for antitrust lawsuits. Apple is more closed and controlling than Microsoft ever was, it's just that the goal of their control is selling hardware instead of software.
Older flip phones have 2.5 jacks. Most smartphones, including current iPhones, have 3.5mm jacks.
Whether it's in the phone, or the phone-powered headphones makes no difference.
Unless it's in the BATTERY POWERED HEADPHONES as I previously mentioned.
except in the instance where you are plugging it into a self-powered peripheral... which is probably not 99% of peoples' non-charging use case
Many noise-canciling and higher end headphones are battery powered.
I'd make that 80%.
But really the difference is minimal - the main point is it's not GREATER battery use to provide a digital audio output over an analog one.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They have their own version of EFI, why not their own version of Bluetooth. Microsoft used to pull stunts like that all the time (probably still do) pushing hardware vendors to support broken versions of standards.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
The iProduct. As Homer would say, "it's funny because it's true".
and their money, will be parted. Smart people who have had enough will tell Apple where to shove it and vote with their wallet.
I dunno why there is such a long thread about this, as Apple has a right to do what they want, consumers have a right to choose a different platform or put up with Apple's shit.
Rather than having the phone send out an amplified analog signal, if the phone sends out a simple digital stream it would use LESS - not more - power. With a dongle it would use the same amount as it does today to convert to an audio stream, but if you had battery powered headphones they could do all of the amplification (and plenty of really nice headphones already do additional application in the headphones).
Alternately what if the new audio jack provided power so you could have a set of external speakers that did use phone power to provide really good sound quality? That seems better to be than using external speakers today where I have to plug them in (though sadly most external speakers today are bluetooth).
1) It also means I can't charge it while I listen to music if I want.
2) I don't want battery powered headphones. That's another thing I have to charge
3) If I use bluetooth so I can charge my phones, the power runs down even quicker and I have another thing to charge
4) If I want to plug in my phone to external speakers, I want it charging so the battery doesn't run down or most likely I will connect via bluetooth while leaving it charged.
Actually, this is anything but a first world problem.
Many third-world countries bypassed POTS infrastructure because it was too expensive, but have adopted mobile technology instead. The mobile phones in those countries are their lifelines. Removing inexpensive, ubiquitous technology that isn't broken for no reason except to pad their already unobtanium-lined pockets is ultimately a purely greed-motivated move in Apple's part that will end up harming those third-world people. (A $30 dongle costs the average person two weeks' gross pay in Chad.)
The first world can suck up the cost. But could end up truly being a problem for the third-world.
I can understand that the 3.5mm jack is impinging on deisgn, however it should be able to be iterated in a way to preserve the best parts of the 3.5mm jack.
Modern headphone jacks have 4 contacts: Gnd, Left, Right, and Mic. This is also the same* number of pins on a magsafe connector. Therefore, I propose we use magsafe or mag-safe-like connector.
While I recommend against using existing mag-safe due to voltage risks, we can iterate it it easily enough for a 1V model.
* technically Magsafe has 5, with pin 3 as charge control. This is not needed.
Also another format would be a magnetic bulls-eye format of concentric contacts, so the cord can spin like an existing 3.5mm jack.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Guys: it's really time to go wireless for audio. I have a cheap ($20) pair of bluetooth earbuds for working out and a pair of Beats Wireless Studio headphones for when I want something that sounds better. Both sound better than the cheap earbuds most people use... and I haven't used the 3.5mm jack on any of my devices for a long time.
Bluetooth is the answer... not adapters.
I view this the same way as when apple removed Ethernet ports from their laptops... it was a (not so gentle) nudge toward going completely wifi. Some people wailed and cried... everyone else enjoyed less wires.
There will always be a niche that says "Bluetooth isn't high enough quality for me!"... but that is 0.0001% of the population. 99.999% of the population is fine using whatever crap comes in the box with their phone. I suspect Apple will provide bluetooth earbuds when they remove the 3.5mm jack.
Try buying MFi chips without an approval from Apple. Go ahead. Won't work. You have to play by THEIR rules (which change every 2 months or so), prove you only work as THEY want you to work (not as your customers or you want to work - including what kinds of connectors you can mix-and-match on your device), and then pay for the MFi chip after running it through certification AT THE MANUFACTURER (not the designer - hope your factory is Apple certified!)
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
if there is no analog jack, it prevents 3rd party go-em-between recording devices from being manufactured. it's legal in most states to record your own phone calls. so this prevents general public from recording and storing their phone calls in a truly off-line manner. right now every time a customer service agent give you the "i don't know who told you that" line, you can play back for them the recording of the call. if all audio goes over an encrypted wire, this becomes a much more difficult task. if for no other reason that any software solution which does this is not guaranteed to not store this info on apple servers. right now a recorder can store it on any media you'd keep inside your home.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
The loss of the headphone jack doesn't just impact 'headphones'. For example I have a chronograph for getting velocities for my ammo reloading. They have a handy mobile app that records shot strings, calculates standard deviation, spread, etc, and allows you to export the data. Guess how they interface between the phone and the chrono? A 15ft cable that plugs into the headphone jack. Before you criticize, keep in mind that this interface has worked flawlessly for me over hundreds of rounds, is compatible with any apple or android smartphone that can still run the mobile app and the cord can be replaced for little cost if damaged or lost. No idea how many other things might use same method...
"It's not enforcement of DRM on audio playback. It's enforcement of the MFi Program for certifying hardware that uses the Lightning port. Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port." If apple sold hot dogs, those hot dogs would be designed to intentionally nullify the flavor of non-apple ketchup. Why? Don't bother asking, they'll just shrug their shoulders and say it's for your security or something.
It just Apple copying another Android feature. The G1, the first Android phone available in most parts of the world, had no 3.5mm jack and required a dongle to use headphones. Apple just copied the feature about 9 years later.
The comparison falls flat on so many levels.
First an foremost, the floppy died because it was no longer able to fulfill its role as a data storage medium. Data size simply outgrew its ability to hold it. The older ones here might still remember playing Monkey Island on the Amiga with a ridiculous amount of floppies, constantly swapping despite having two floppy drives.
There was simply a demand for something that could hold more data than the floppy was able to. CDs filled this role, as well as ZIP drives did. There was a demand for such larger media because the floppy was simply getting too small.
I fail to see this development with headphone jacks. Considering that our kids consider YouTube videos good enough to watch their music, I doubt that they are really craving the high quality audio digital audio could deliver.
This looks more like a solution desperately trying to find a problem so it could become relevant. Or, in other words, we'll get another demand from the supply side shoved down our throats.
Could someone explain capitalism to me again? I think I misunderstood a thing or two.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Square already released a new reader that works over bluetooth: https://squareup.com/help/us/e...
but if you had battery powered headphones they could do all of the amplification.
But now you have two things that you have to keep charged instead of one. More importantly, the summary mentions they could have a larger battery if they got rid of the headphone jack. That is bizarre. If you want to increase the battery size, just do it. If you just made the iphone 6 the same depth as the camera on it, that would give you significantly more area to work with than removing the headphone jack. You would have also avoided "bendgate". What is apple's obsession with ultra thin devices? Give me a thicker phone and throw in a longer battery life and waterproofing. As it is the iphone is so thin and fragile that everyone ends up putting it in a case anyways.
it's not rocket science. No one is being tricked into buying an iPhone, and other manufacturers aren't being tricked into copying the iPhone. If people really want a 3.5 mm headphone jack then other manufacturers will keep it and people will buy those instead of an iPhone. If not, then I guess it doesn't really matter and we'll add this to the list of legacy technologies that Apple has taken the lead on EOLing, causing mass hysteria from the technoratti and complete indifference from everyone else.
we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports
I've just had a look on the computer I bought last year. Check and ..... check.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Admittedly, I'm a corner case, but I need the 1/8" jack to connect to my cochlear implant, if I want to do the equivalent of "use headphones." The sound processor has an input jack just for that purpose. So, unless Apple makes a Lightning-to-1/8" adapter, I won't be able to "plug in" and listen quietly to my music. Why do you hate handicapped people, Apple...?
He adds that the existing analog headphone jack "is more costly in terms of depth than thickness," and by getting rid of it, Apple could use the extra real estate to stuff in more battery juice.
Maybe Apple could use the "extra" space to add to battery life, if special digital copy protection circuits don't end up taking up as much or more space, but does anyone really believe that Apple has any interest in doing this? Gruber is clearly just making unfounded excuses for Apple. I've learned long ago to be very weary of anyone who says stuff like this.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
You might one to rebuy a periphery tool or two, though...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Why do headphones need to use the Lightning port? I don't understand how this is a positive point. Plus, Lightning ports only exist on Apple devices. So really, just a way to skim money from the fanbase.
How is this even good for the consumer? This isn't a positive point at all. Right now in the US only certain people are allowed to give internet to certain households. Look at the quality of service and cost involved there. He's pretty much blatantly saying he's trying to find a way to jack up prices for basic items.
Do we really want paper-thin phones now? Their current thickness is just fine, if not teetering on too thin.
The amount of space saved by removing the headphone jack is negligible... how much juice are they going to fit in there?
While I'm all for change and advancement, this seems like a huge step back that is simply being driven to stream more money into Apple's wallet. Considering their current practice is: "Fewest as possible feature at the highest possible cost" I simply can't see this being a good thing. Can the audio from headphones be any higher quality? It just seems like a giant scam being set up by Apple... and as much as I want them to shoot themselves in the foot, I know the Apple fanbase is dumb enough to drool all over it and toss their money away. Apple could put out a literal log of shit sculpted into some shape with their logo on it and sell it as an air freshener, and those people would buy it.
The analogy with floppy drives is flawed.
When floppies were being dropped, the replacement was already there - USB mass storage devices - and it was cross platform.
Headphone jacks are cross platform.
A lightening headphone is not cross platform.
A USB-C headphone would be cross platform if iPhones and computers all came with USB-C connectors but today they do not.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I love how your subtle, yet powerful, argument is so based on facts.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
My understanding of mobile devices(phones) used in the Third World, is that it is almost exclusively Android based(generic, low end, NOT Samsung).
I would be surprised to find someone in Chad, Nicaragua or Laos using an iPhone.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
I am sorry but Apple Inc. is not innovative, it is clever in its use of technology, and the only contribution I can see that apple gave to the world at large was done under Steve Jobs. Unfortunately, he is now moved on to other realms of existence, and since then apple has not done much if any improvement on its own products. Apple did not contribute to the development of USB (Intel), HDMI, DVI, Firewire, etc. There are a few things that are apple only, but those have not been adopted by anyone else, nor can they. Even if they, other computer companies, wanted to adopt any apple product they probably could not by law do so, or pay the outrageous fees. Also If Apple was innovative, why have they adopted industrial standards that other Computer manufacturers been using long than Apple?
Keep in mind that Apple Inc. almost expired, and would have if Microsoft didn't need Apple to have a chunk of the market to avoid the anti-monopoly issue they faced. Yes Microsoft saved Apple.
Right now I am of the opinion, and it is subject to change, that Apple good at taking money and not contributing anything, while making themselves look good doing it. I mean Microsoft is funding initiatives to help schools to educate. Has apple?
Let it be know also that the other post is on the other extreme and also way off, the anti-apple post about the headphone jack.
In the long run, we will see. Apple has been know to do a 180 just like everyone else, but do not say that they are innovative.
a phone which is incapable of being used in speakerphone mode. Why? Because eliminating it saves weight, costs less, and reduces the size by a tiny amount. Or, because eliminating it boosts sales of 'accessories' and fattens the bottom line. Want speakerphone mode? Buy a dongle.
Even a few months ago I would have said the above only jokingly, but at this point I won't be at all surprised if it actually comes to pass.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
I wonder how much extra juice will be needed to run Bluetooth all the time.
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
Yeah, they'll have a dongle to convert... but that dongle is still an additional expense that isn't likely going to be included with the iphone.
The 3.5mm jack is among one of the most ubiquitous audio connector form factors in the history of recorded audio. Breaking from it offers absolutely no perceptible benefit that is not accompanied by significantly greater expense and inconvenience for the consumer
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
You Apple Fuckbois deserve every little piece of totalitarian bullshit Apple deals you.
And you Linux/Android Fuckbois deserve every bit of Malware and unpatched exploits that your Carriers won't help with, and every bit of non-support from the mainstream software publishers and lack of marketshare that you have "enjoyed" for over 20 years now.
So now what?
It's not "debatable". Dropping the analog jack is just stupid. As far as "anyone" can make accessories, yes, that's the point, anyone can.
Apple designed neither the USB which replaced serial ports (I miss them) nor the various standards (now HDMI) which replaced VGA (I don't really miss that). Apple tried to force their own proprietary interfaces for ages, and almost none of that translated over to the non-Apple world. The reason VGA and RS-232 disappeared had nothing to do with Apple.
You MISS Serial Ports?!? I guess it's been too long since you did the Pin 2 or Pin 3 Dance, or the is it 4 and 5 or 6, 8 and 20 Headache, eh?
As an embedded Developer, THAT is the only time I need a Serial Port these days, and that's what FDDI is all about.
The rest of your rant is just that. A rant.
Just as many people are putting black tape over their webcams, I also plug in a dummy plug (cut off a broken pair of earbuds, mic line shorted to ground) on my phone and laptop when discussing things I wouldn't like made public. With no headphone jack, we'll be forced to leave our phones outside of earshot when having private conversations.
Maybe I should market a soundproof box to place phones in during private conversations. It would also have an AM/FM radio and recordings of various plausible background noises. Should be less suspicious than putting your phone in a lead lined box or Faraday cage.
Doesn't your phone have a Power-Off (rather than Sleep) functionality? Or are you SO frickin' over-the-top Paranoid that even THAT isn't good enough?
According to Gruber: If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports.
In my time I've heard some supposedly intelligent people say some screwy shit but that deserves a special award (special as in "my mommie says I'm special").
> The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around for decades. We can either live with it forever, or...
Great. yes please.
Yeah fuck that. Apple just made my decision, for me, of which phone to get next.
How can anyone defend the deplorable practice of doing away with a common industry standard, and instead coming up with some new, proprietary solution to a problem that's already solved. I don't want headphones that run on batteries...and I REALLY don't want to buy lighting-adapter headphones that will ONLY work on Apple products, or have to worry about losing some bulky god damn adapter. Trying to expand the walled garden so that in encompasses something as simple as headphones if beyond fucking offensive.
The entire premise of this article, comparing an audio jack to a floppy drive, is so utterly stupid, it defies logic. You see, floppy drives were SUPPLANTED by superior technology, the CD, as were CDs by DVDs, and DVDs by USB drives, and so on. There were tangible benefits to doing without them. A lighting adapter adds nothing of value - to anyone - as far as audio is concerned. People are not going to replace the analog ports on their amps with lighting adapters, you fucking idiot. The comparison makes zero sense, and only stands to benefit Apple. How can people be such transparent shills. Jesus fucking Christ.
Cords suck. They snag, they fray, they tangle, they slack, they break. They take up space in your pocket, your bag, your shelf. Some are too short, some are too long. Wireless headsets are mediocre at best, it is true. They have a whole bunch of their own problems and many on this thread feel those problems are worse than cord problems. But this is exactly the point. I'm sick of slow advances in wireless and so is Apple. Its time to kick the wireless headset market into high gear and get lots of models from lots of competitors getting iterated multiple times a year and getting cheaper all the time. How do we do that? Simple. Eliminate the 3.5mm jack.
That, and although not one other person has mentioned it, there is a new Bluetooth standard (Bluetooth 5) that has JUST been announced. It's main features are 4 times the range and twice the bandwidth, for the same power as Bluetooth 4 LE.
So, perhaps the days of the crappy, high-latency, low-bandwidth, highly-compressed Bluetooth headphones are coming to an end, and Apple is about to imminentize that particular New Era.
Boy, for a "Geek" site, some Slashdot readers sure are Luddites!
" but if you had battery powered headphones"
I can't wait for that lithium battery to explode against my fucking head.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Some people don't care about Apple force-retiring certain things that personally don't affect them - 3.5" floppies, etc, and trot out the tired "oh well, that's progress for you." But there's a right and wrong way to do things like this. The alternatives to the audio jack stink.
What if iOS 11 deprecated phone calls? "Phone calls are a legacy feature with too much reliance on the cell phone companies. With our new and improved FaceTime and iMessage apps, you can more quickly communicate. Yes, these apps only works with other iOS devices, why do you ask?" Would these people care then? Or if Apple suddenly did away with the hardware mute toggle, since you can do the same thing (but much less conveniently) via software?
I have a dumb phone. Not because I don't like smartphones, only because I'm too poor to afford one. But my dumb phone doesn't have an ear phone jack either. And I had this samsung phone about 5 years ago, it didn't have a headphone jack either, had a dongle i'd have to plug into it's usb port.
So while you peeps with your fancy smartphone and iPhones are complaining, this isn't new at all.
But it still sucks imo.
Be seeing you...
"Microsoft used to pull stunts like that all the time (probably still do) pushing hardware vendors to support broken versions of standards."
ACPI is a common cause of complaint. Windows has a not-quite-standard ACPI implementation, which all hardware is built to fit. A lot of mainboards (mostly laptops) will crash when probed by a proper, standards-compliant ACPI OS, like linux. Usually because there are certain registers for which Windows simply assumes the default values without querying, and which hardware vendors don't bother to fill with valid data. There's a lot of special handling in the linux kernel for specific laptop models to say 'don't try to probe this, it'll crash.'
With a dongle it would use the same amount as it does today to convert to an audio stream
Until you add in a USB controller on each end (yes, Lightning is USB), the Lightning "auth" chip in the port, the Lightning "auth" chip in the plug, and resistive losses in the cable that will cause an external DAC and amplifier to draw more current from the phone just to get the same amount of power (lower voltage and higher amperage) at the other end.
You can see this today, if you don't believe me. There are external iPhone DACs on the market, the iPhone shuts down its DAC and amp when you plug one in. You get about 10% less iTunes listening time when using one.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
"This is how it goes. If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports. " Since when apple invented the hdmi and port ? Heck even displayport was a standard outside apple (they only later licensed free a mini version of it). What is the load of bullshit of rewriting history.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
It is: if people care ENOUGH, they'll buy something else.
That is how it works.
I don't like Blizzard's DRM practices, and that's enough a reason not to buy D3, but not enough, to skip SC2, as an example.
Why on earth would we still be using VGA "if not Apple"?
What do DVI-D (Intel/AMD and co decided to let analog DVI go), HDMI or display port have to do with Apple?
Thunderbolt is pretty much the only thin you could associate with them, if not, cough, Intel who has actually developed it.
You can encode surround sound into two channel audio, but the result is not nearly as good as true separation of channels - which is why real him theater equipment uses digital audio inputs if it can instead of decoding surround from two-channel audio.
Many Slashdot users would apparently deny the the headphones you speak of exist, or have any use.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think you'll find that the vast majority of headsets sold are cheap $10 earbuds. No matter what, wireless will never be able to compete with "almost free", particularly for folks who are constantly losing them.
Besides, if I wanted another device to have to charge every night, I'd have a smartwatch....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Once Apple removes the analog connector, they also get to remove the Digital to Analog Converter (DAC), Op-Amp and other circuity that goes along with powering and controlling the analog audio output. This is interesting because all of these components now get moved to the dongle. This would be a great "Analog" system "Export" for audio developers and audiophile types who would then be able to put whatever DAC and opamp packages they want in their third party dongle. Unfortunately I do not see it panning out that way. I am sure Apple will have a stranglehold on interoperability with third party vendors for some time. DRM will also most likely control who gets to play in the Dongle arena.
"A 'person' is smart. 'People' are dumb, panicky animals and you know that."
iPhone sales are down 10% from last year. Apple is headed for single digit market share.
If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports.
I wish I had a fucking VGA port on every laptop I bought recently. The so called new standards are a complete mess, without consensus and often incompatible setups. Seriously, if you have to project something often, then VGA is still the best solution so far. Partly because every projector has a vga input that always works, and partly because to other things are complete garbage. Simple standards that work as expected all the time should never be phased out.
Oh, and give me my ethernet port back too! I'm tired of all those shitty wifi connection with their incorrect authentication schemes and awful bandwidth. So far, I never used a laptop while running, so I don't mind plugging it to the network. Hey, I plug it for power anyway, so...
Video of some good progressive thrash music
iPhones aren't that popular in 3rd-world countries, or anywhere outside the US really. 3rd-world countries mainly use cheap Android phones, for obvious cost reasons.
Who uses headphones with cables in this day and age?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
I was worried how my old floppy-based ICBM system could be updated, now I know I need only add headphone jacks
Nullius in verba
Losing the standard jack effectively disables the use of any decent headphone currently made.
Great, my wallet is just ready to barf cash at this new Bluetooth 5 shiny shiny.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Where do 1st world electronics get disassembled and disposed of? Overwhelmingly the 3rd world. This will be a 3rd world problem in 2-3 years after the release of the new audio-jack-less iPhone.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
...with Apple and interfaces. Until recently, Macs always used proprietary video jacks (google Apple ADC), and before they got rid of the mic jack on Macs they used a proprietary jack/plug called Appletalk, yes the same name as their old network protocol, because why the hell not?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Honestly I don't see what the big fuss is about. I've been using wireless headphones since 2012 and I would never willingly go back to corded headphones because they are unwieldy. The cords would always pull the buds out of my ears and get tangled. Wireless headphones give me the freedom to move around unencumbered which is useful when I'm riding my motorcycle, bicycling, running, or walking. Yes Bluetooth doesn't have the same fidelity as traditional wired headphones, but when I'm listening to music with headphones I've never expected high fidelity. I have a home theater with AirPlay at home for when I want want higher fidelity. Also when I need headphones that usually means I'm not at home so that means I'm listening to low bitrate music to save bandwidth, so fidelity is largely a moot point. I do use the 3.5mm jack in my car, but for this use case I can simply replace this with a $5 Bluetooth receiver; I've been meaning to get a Bluetooth receiver anyways so that I can talk hands free.
"Right now any headphone maker in the world can make any headphones they want for the standard jack. Not so with the Lightning port."
...That is not even wrong.
That's... bad?
"Apple could use the extra real estate to stuff in more battery juice."
About three minutes' worth, yeah.
"Gruber adds that "enabling, open, and democratizing" have never been high on Apple's list of priorities for external ports."
That is exactly the complaint, yes.
"If it weren't for Apple we'd probably still be using computers with VGA and serial ports."
God, people who use Apple are horrible.
I have to confess that I'm an Apple customer -- I own an iPhone, iPad, and a MacBook air -- as well as some Windows-running hardware.
I LIKE Apple for the devices on which I am a consumer. I like that things work. When I have to customize things, I use Linux/Raspberry Pi/Arduino, etc.
I unhappily lived with the "lightning port" because it's a small inconvenience and is superior in a minor way (you can't plug it in upside down).
This move, however is PARASITIC. I wish it would be regulated away or something -- it reminds me of the ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS glut of phone chargers which were available in the late 1990s and the early 2000s before USB became standard. They add absolutely no value to the user and force the user to buy new accessories or adapters.
Will I stop using my existing Apple devices? Probably not. Will I buy the new iPhone -- probably not. I'll just upgrade to the latest one which does not package idiocy and stop there.
At some point, any audio has to be analog sound for people to hear it. The audio industry, at the insistence of the music industry, has been trying to limit the distance and the quality of that audio so that it cannot be copied in the audio domain, while DRM controls the digital encoded domain. Same as HDMI eliminating the "analog hole" of composite or component video in the attempt to prevent copying.
Very melodramatic. People buy what they want and what they like. This is a classic example of "oh, this doesn't work for me so it must be crap" syndrome.
Great, my wallet is just ready to barf cash at this new Bluetooth 5 shiny shiny.
You DO realize, of course, that APPLE had nothing to do with Bluetooth 5, right? It's a STANDARD.
I don't think iPhones have radios to pick up broadcasts but if Android phone makers follow suit, the built-in radios will necessarily be dropped, too, won't they?
I suspect this is all part of that.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
If the rumors are true, the iPhone 7 will have no audio jack, and a Lightning port.
The MacBook already uses USB-C for power. How far into the future does Apple expect to get before the iPhone does as well? A transition to Lightning headphones is going to cost users a whole bunch of money, and a lot of people who aren't very technical are going to spend that money on Lightning headphones instead of an audio adapter.
The day Apple migrates to USB-C, making those lightning headphones useless (or requiring a USB-C to Lightning adapter), even the most loyal users are going to throw a fit.
You are absolutely correct - the iPhone is a first-world device, no question.
The problem is that Apple is a trend-setter and leader in the mobile space. Other companies and manufacturers will follow suit and make it more difficult for those who need inexpensive options. At the very least, they will fracture the market, and at worst, significantly degrade the experience of those who have no say in the matter.
Only MHO.
It's on the wrong end of the phone for pocket-based use.
My point is, this decision by Apple forces people to buy expensive headphones that fall short of a corded version.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
1. Apple will do it anyway
2. You'll get an adaptor and move on, just like you did last last time
3. your mom isn't freaking out, neither should you
4. you can always stay with the last generation iPhone, which will be available for a few years
5. Admit it android people, you just luv to complain about Apple.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
My point is, this decision by Apple forces people to buy expensive headphones that fall short of a corded version.
WHAT "Decision"?
ALL there is at this point is FUD. Nothing more.
Yup and, at $49, it costs infinitely more than the free one with the 3.5mm jack.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Of course, without a radio needing an antenna, there's really no point in using wired headphones
Gaming or video, where the lag introduced by wireless affects the experience...
I just gave you two reasons, how many more are necessary to disprove your point? Oh? Negative one more? Got it.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Huh, I can't say I've experienced the unpatched exploits and lack of carrier support, but, then I don't buy the old models and I tend to replace my phone long before it reaches EOL. If you're going to compare iOS to Android, at least look at the same class of phones: high-end flagship devices. Apples to apples, so to speak.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
If the 3.5mm jack is "too big" then replace it with the smaller standard 2.5mm jack. We can easily get adapters for 2.5mm to 3.5mm. Whining about jack size inside the phone doesn't hold water here. The decision to drop the jack is a money grab plus an ecosystem lock-in attempt, plain and simple. Fuck Apple for pulling this garbage.
Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't the compression algorithm for wireless (Bluetooth) sound diminish the quality of the music? It might be good for "average Joe" but music buff's wont like the removal of the headphone jack?
Wow, on Slashdot even gibberish gets upvoted if it seems to be anti-Apple.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
You do know that MFi allows for 100 mA draw from the Lightning port, don't you? Most - probably more than 99% - of those Lightning headphones will NOT have batteries, they'll pull power from your phone to run THEIR circuitry to do the D/A and amplification - most of which STILL has to exist inside the iPhone because it still has speakers internally. That's what happens now with the few Lightning-equipped headphones on the market - the iDevice provides power to run everything.
So the headphones if using the maximum allowed power draw will drain the 1715mAh battery of an iPhone 6s in only 17 hours. While being able to pierce not just your eardrums, but also those of the people around you - or produce enough heat to melt them.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
literally 'billions' of corporate PCs still use VGA connections.
I find it hard to believe that anyone that actually "does business" with a square reader would be troubled by a one-time $49 purchase.
Do you stand by the road selling ants for 1 cent each?
Stop making thinner phones! They're already too small to get a firm grip on due to the lack of surface area contacting my skin, especially with rounded sides. They also feel really fragile, and judging by the number of cracked screens I see, are actually as fragile as they seem. Is Apple's solution to their lackluster upgrades to the iPhone and market saturation making a phone so thin and fragile that it's easy to drop and break, necessitating an over-priced screen replacement?
I think this article loses sight of a very important distinction about what actually happened when Apple removed the floppy drive. First, there were a few generations of machines that had both floppy and CD-rom drives together. During that time, computers were getting exponentially more powerful every year, and files were starting not to fit on the floppy drive, outside of Word documents. The CD was a superior technology, and it was evident to most people. Also, that whole internet thing was starting to happen, and files could be moved that way. (the i in iMac is for internet). Apple noticed that the floppy drive was not being used by many people at all.
So in response, Apple made the then bold decision to remove the floppy disc. They did this in a new revolutionary model of the mac dubbed the iMac. It was cute, bondi blue machine. It was $1299, and replaced the mac 5500 which was about $2000. See, by not having the floppy disc and a few other things, the cost was REDUCED and part of the savings was passed on the consumer.
For those determined and still in love with the floppy disc, there were able to purchase an external floppy drive that connected through that then new fangled USB port. The consumer was able to take some of their cost savings and make a choice. A good thing, choice.
Now contrast this with the removal of the headphone port. Those who are extreme Apple apologists or who do not think it through blithely state that this is an example of Apple just knowing better than us, like before. But, unlike before, there is NO cost savings for us. In fact, the cost of peripherals etc actually goes up. In addition, the new port and the head port are not available at the same time, like floppies and cds were before. There is no transition period, or the ability to demonstrate how the new media is superior. There is no way the consumer, comparing the two, can say, "you know, I never use that silly headphone port. I am so done with it."
Being a silly consumer, I really have seen no clear advantages that the system offers. I find the current level of head phones pretty good. I listen to music outside, which is pretty noisy. So, any crisp new nuance possibly given by the new interface seems like it would be meaningless in the real world. The old headphone jack is physically robust. I heard mention on these forums the new port is less sturdy. All I know is that my iPhone is pretty @!#$$ expensive, and I would hate to have it bricked due to a flimsy port failing.
So, this is a deep departure from the Apple of old, into what I am increasingly seeing as the Apple of new. The old Apple would anticipate what the customer wants based upon what the customer is doing. The new apple seems fascinated with control. Oh, and making computers and devices that are ever slimmer because upper management has a Fetish, not because it makes it better.
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
What of having that jack have multiple stripes and convert it into something backward compatible with an audio jack? You could put enough wires in there to be a USB port, accept data, and charging yet still support the good old headphones. I know credit card swipe devices which use the input, lets just put a ground, 2 gpio, 2 varying power, and an analog and see if we can get more devices to come out. THAT would be more along the lines of Apple ingenuity, take something which exists, and revolutionize it.
No, your battery will drain much faster than that. Because the phone is serving the music as well, so the CPU is running, you may have a 4G connection streaming, the screen will be on as you increase/decrease the volume or select the next track, memory is accessed, etc.
I realize you're just trying to dodge the point: an outboard, SECONDARY DAC and amp (yes, secondary because you HAVE to have one inside the phone for its own speaker) will always increase the power draw off the battery as compared to just using the primary DAC and amp already in the phone. And of course, to be MFi compatible, you have to have a USB (which is what the Lightning port speaks, but with the MFi wrapper around it) interface and an MFi chip (bought, of course, from Apple). You're powering two circuits (one of which is much more complex), rather than just one. But the fact is that an outboard system will always draw more, since it's redundant to already-existing systems internally.
The easiest way to do this is with the Apple Lighting Audio Module - and it pulls a constant 25 mA in addition to whatever is needed for any additional amp you want to use (their built-in amp is so-so, relatively low power and with a high output impedance). If you roll-your-own via Cypress PSoC or XMOS, you're probably around 25-35 mA continuous. Not including amplifier. Nor including the microphone bias circuit and preamplifier and ADC (you DO want to use that mic on your headphone, right? The one built into the little MFi 3 button controller?) And yes, I've done these kinds of adapters for headphone companies down here in SoCal...
This move will NOT cut power consumption - it will, in fact, increase it significantly over the current status quo (probably a solid 50 mA extra current draw). Every single time. But hey, it's more revenue and profit for Apple so it's all good, right?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I've seen them used at garage sales, trade shows, flea markets, etc. Those are all scenarios where the cost of the reader, on top of processing fees, might dissuade someone from even accepting cards. If I recall correctly, a pizza place I ordered from once used them to take delivery payments, as well. $49 vs $FREE is a huge price difference for something you're handing to a teenage kid delivering pizzas and know they'll probably lose a nontrivial number of; and lost sales when the oh-so-responsible (that's why they work as a pizza driver, after all) driver forgets to charge the reader or can't figure out how to pair it with their new phone, but didn't realize until they already made the delivery.
This will hurt Square in the long run. Apple might want to do that, as they now offer a competing service. Follow?
As for places with a brick and mortar presence, I can't say I've ever seen Square in one. I see that they do sell a stand you can drop an iPad into to use as a case register, but I've only ever seen their competitors' products in use. But, I digress, as those are a different class of product altogether.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Lots of brick and mortar places here (Boston) use Square... and many of them have already upgraded to the new reader.
Just paid for ice cream yesterday using Apple Pay on my Apple Watch at one.
Note that places were going to have to drop the stripe readers anyway once the mandates for chip and pin set in. The new reader does chip and pin and NFC/ApplePay
AA batteries, AAA batteries are just fine as a backup option. Amateur radio equipment leaves this open. As well as rechargeable. Hell, i have rechargeable AA energizers. Stop changing shit for the sake of it. If you want a glass iPhone 8 the thickness of a cracker, ok cool. I don't though.... i have both a Bluetooth sound system and an 8 track player. Knock it off
Have you bosses finally told you that "removing the 3.5 mm headphone jack is the best idea ever" ? Or you are just hedging your bets in case they tell this to you later?
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
They have a chip reader that plugs into the 3.5mm as well... and for cards that don't have chips yet (I've got two in my wallet), that stripe reader is still useful. Old rules regarding fraud liability still apply to non-chipped cards, by the way.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
"Old rules regarding fraud liability still apply to non-chipped cards, by the way."
Yes, but if you swipe a chip card you're liable... so carrying the old "free" reader only is now a liability.
"They have a chip reader that plugs into the 3.5mm as well"
Yes, but it's $30. For only $20 more you can get the new contactless, Bluetooth reader. I'm not sure there's a strong argument for $30 instead of $50 when this is the heart of your business...
I'm not sure there's a strong argument for $30 instead of $50 when this is the heart of your business...
Oh, I don't know about that...
and lost sales when the oh-so-responsible (that's why they work as a pizza driver, after all) driver forgets to charge the reader or can't figure out how to pair it with their new phone, but didn't realize until they already made the delivery.
Honestly, for brick-and-mortar stores with stationary POS systems, there's not much of an argument for Square in the first place; other solutions have much lower fees. I guess they're not iPad-powered, so your POS system doesn't benefit from that shiny Apple logo...
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Have you bosses finally told you that "removing the 3.5 mm headphone jack is the best idea ever" ? Or you are just hedging your bets in case they tell this to you later?
That's right. You've discovered my secret.
Because unlike every other person that posts on Slashdot, I have absolutely no independent thought and no personal opinions.
[/sarcasm] (Justin Case you are as dense as you appear to be).
No, your battery will drain much faster than that. Because the phone is serving the music as well,
DUH. Yeah, but the headphone, even when drawing the maximum allowed power (which it will of course never do, any idiot will realize that), it would change the battery depletion by as much as you try to imply.
In case you didn't notice, I'm calling your claim dumb bullshit.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
As a Linux Fuckboi, I haven't had any problems with malware. Presently looking for a decent, cheap Linux phone, because I don't relish the idea of being a Google Fuckboi. I certainly am NOT going to be an Apple fuckboi, for many reasons as others above have pointed out.
Inductively charge, bluetooth in and out. Have a sealed system, immersible to 500M and totally irreplaceable anything inside. Headphones to be surgically implanted in the customer.
As a Linux Fuckboi, I haven't had any problems with malware. Presently looking for a decent, cheap Linux phone, because I don't relish the idea of being a Google Fuckboi. I certainly am NOT going to be an Apple fuckboi, for many reasons as others above have pointed out.
Oh, but all the Android Fuckbois are always crowing about how Android == Linux, to "support" their assertion that Linux is the most popular OS.
So which is it? Android is Linux, or it is not. Can't be both.
Personally, I think that Android is Linux in exactly the same way as iOS is macOS. They share some underlying code; but then diverge.
But your answer seems to allude to the fact that Android != Linux.
I have battery-powered noise-cancelling headphones (Bose QC25). The batteries last very long. I don't think I would notice if they'd draw from the phone (which would be cool, kind-of). The phone consumes much more battery.
But I agree in that I don't necessarily need a thinner phone. I like my 4S's form-factor and will buy the SE. The 6 and 6S always seemed too slippery for me when I tried them in shops.
For extra battery, you can now buy the "hump" charger-case...
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
I was surprised the last phone I bought had a 3.5MM jack on it for sound. I figured they did away with that years ago. I never use it for that.
Now what will that company that uses the phone jack for credit card payments do? What WILL they do? (Joke is probably to old for slashdot crowd)
a series of half truths and lies that only the most ardent idiot apple fanboys would for a second buy.
The real reason - we want to soak you for the cost of more expensive and more complex and more prone to breaking and wearing out types of headsets, and we want to be the ones to sell them and the replacements for them.
Pigs.
You didn't reply what they told you? Is it that "removing the 3.5 mm headphone jack is the best idea ever" ?
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
There isn't a reason to buy one anyway, unless you want to spend more money for no reason.
Gotta ask why!
GNU/Linux is not Android/Linux. ChromeOS is closer... but still Google. I give them props, though, for kicking Microsoft off the fondleslab market.