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I got started with a lot of good info at: http://forum.byopvr.com/dvr/index.php People answered my questions, and it had some decent starter tips. I mentioned MediaPortal as that was a new one that I hadn't heard about before; when I was doing my MythTV stuff I don't think it was as mature as it is now. Some others off the top of my head are GB-PVR, Freevo, BeyondTV (though I think this costs money). Good luck and have fun!

Hauppauge and Cyberlink are working on a subscription satellite PC DVR solution so that you can legitimately "tune"/record your digital premium/subscription HDTV content from satellite.

But it's not out yet (just recently announced)...

E.

Instead, we'll be streaming content to digital media adapters from a PC in our home office.

No we wont. I'll be back on the couch as he describes, and certainly not walking into the "home office" to queue up my next piece of media.

Somewhere between a small laptop and a PDA / phone to transmit input via WiFi maybe, but replacing a home stereo component with a traditional PC will not catch-on.

*sigh* You don't have to do this (get up and change media) NOW. You can have full control over your "office" located media server and stream it to a network client near your TV and control it all from your couch with a regular remote control.

Here's an old article from my site where you have an office PC, a pvr x50 card, and a MediaMVP to make a budget network streaming PVR that's controllable from your couch/remote control.

It's not like network adapters and media "clients" are new ideas/technology. I'm sure several people will point to using lightweight/quiet mini-itx mythtv client boxes, or modded xbox's w/XBMC as clients to some media store in a closet somewhere.

Viiv is the "centrino" branding of new DRM lockdown...

*sigh*

e.

Build Your Own PVR Community Site for news, reviews, howto, tips, and forum.

also see HTPCnews as well.

Build your own PVR but then again that's probably no surprise ;)

also a very good resource: HTPCnews

well it depends on how much wattage, look how well the brick is doing for the power hungry xbox 360 ;)

I don't think you'll be saving money though... What *IS* your power supply budget there are quiet, or quieter power supplies that are good and quiet (or with a little ingenuity and bravery can be made quieter -- especially if the draw is low ) that aren't *that* much... Yes the totally passive/fanless ones are pricey.

I did a review of a casetronics c137 case with a via epia m10k mobo and it had a brick power supply (although there still was some power supply guts in the case and still had a fan!)

*shrug*

e.

Build Your Own PVR community site

if you need any help, pointers, project exampls, product reviews, tips, discussion, yadda yadda yadda...

*shrug* I had a few issues with this "round up" but most people already hit upon them... but it's a nice comparison of the major features, drawbacks, etc of the different main commercial windowz PVR applications out there...

can;t believe they included powercinema though?! also see Meedio, GBPVR (free as in beer), CTPVR, ChrisTV,Media Portal, for other windoze options... also I think nero just announced some sort of PVR/HTPC-esque software...

e.

Tom's Hardware takes a closer look at Building The Ultimate Home Theater PC. "Hype aside, is it really possible to build a PC that is quiet and does everything that a high-end remote-controlled set-top box can do? And don't forget it's got to look good in your living room, too." I say YES! It was kind of refreshing to see them mangle some hardware forcing it into a small/slim form factor HTPC case, although it was less than refreshing to see them choose Windows MCE 2005 as their OS/PVR software. See also recent Ask SlashDot on MythTV extras and my favorite DIY PVR Resource

Everything you need to know is at Build Your Own Personal Video Recorder.

I don't really look at it as a bad thing. It's really part of the next step/evolution for TiVo to be an interactive platform. Think amazon.com meets sitcom.

I have a series 2 tivo currently in the rotation and will see if I was one of the "lucky" ones.

There's previously had this functionality where you'd give the thumbs up during certain commercials and then it would take you to another screen where you could request additional information. Unfortunately the turn around time was pretty pathetic... 6 months later I received my glossy print mailer about the new line of Chevrolet Corvettes. That didn't feel quite as interactive or immediate to me.

I see potential and value possible with something like this, but probably not in the form it'll take initially. All I have to say is if I get another Tivo software update and if it makes my interface any more sluggish than it already is i'm canceling my service and promoting the BeyondTV box to the digital cable (currently recording two analog cable sources).

So in short, I'll wait and see and not give the knee jerk "OMG Tivo fux0ring with ads again" response and hope for the best.

The mediamvp is pretty cool... I believe there's a lot of MediaMVP linux hacking at SHSpvr forum

It playsback primarily mpeg2 but there are little transcode on the fly utilities that allow it to push divx/etc through it's mpeg2 decoder.

howto use MediaMVP, PVR250, GBPVR make cheap/easy PVR

There are "client" replacments for SageTV and GBPVR that allow you to extend the full functionality of your PC PVR to these little quiet clients over your wired network (a wireless version is in the works... some wireless bridge gateway shennagins are possible depending on the quality of your link/bitrate/quality)

e.

One of the things you have to look out for when building one of these with Linux is hardware compatibility. Go to the PVR Hardware Database to see what others are running.

Other interesting links:
HTPCNews
Build Your Own PVR
AVS Forum - they have a Linux section under HTPC.

"KnoppMyth has bugs(*), MythTV has bugs(*), the drivers have bugs(*), the hardware has bugs(*), the documentation is contradictory, the right documentation is hard to find, and the people on the mailing lists are generally unresponsive and unhelpful even when they do respond.

I did all the research, looked at all the reports of how people had done it, for months. I bought the best supported TV card (PVR 350), had a reasonably fast system (900 mhz), and used the most up-to-date versions of everything. "

I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience...

But a few points of contention... the pvr350 is NOT the most well supported card, the pvr250 is. Ironically, the hardest part of the install (dealing with the pvr350's TV out) was the easiest for you.

You've got a good point about the coherency/cohesiveness of the documentation out there. Although the best guide I've seen is jarod's fedora core mythtv guides

I can't speak for the mailing lists, but in general I try to cultivate a helpful community in the byopvr forum, I lurk/search the mailing lists and seemed pretty helpful IMHO.

What 900mhz system? is it a mini-itx EPIA board? I know recent knoppmyth builds have gotten better at supporting those boards.

Building a DVR isn't for everyone, and sometimes with some combinations of hardware and software you can fall into a crack like the above poster...

Would it be blasphemy to suggest that you consider a windoze solution, perhaps GBPVR (which is free as in beer)?

Good luck, and my condolences on your fustrating experience...

e.

first, gratuitous link to my site build your own PVR and the byopvr forums.

Anandtech just did a round up of a bunch of windows MCE "certified" hardware encoding tuner cards.

Also HTPCnews did a Review comparing the new ATI 550 theater pro with the venerable wintv pvr150

E.

first, gratuitous link to my site build your own PVR and the byopvr forums.

Anandtech just did a round up of a bunch of windows MCE "certified" hardware encoding tuner cards.

Also HTPCnews did a Review comparing the new ATI 550 theater pro with the venerable wintv pvr150

E.

There is a plugin for SageTV to use MediaMVP

GbPVR *is* very cool and also supports MediaMVP (as well as UI output of the pvr350 tv out/decoder)

I thought there was a port (or work on a port) of a mythtv client out there for windoze (as blasphemic as that sounds)

e.

"The guy recommends to use the graphics card video output instead of the PVR-350 output, which might be true for HDTV, but for regular TV, the PVR-350 output will Always have Much better quality."

It's not a big mistake. I concur that the pvr350 has an awesome decoder/PQ but I think it's more trouble than it's worth. In order for it to be useful you need to use it with software that can force the UI through it's mpeg "only" decoder/tv out... so that limits you a little bit (to sagetv, gbpvr, & mythtv with special IVTV drivers)

For whatever reason it seems that half the people have a great totally stable experience with this combination and the another half have a lousy experience (not sure if that's because of certain chipsets on certain mobo's or ??? other factor...)

I think, alot of the svideo quality issues come from buying genric brand video cards that skimp on the TV out components or the tv out is an afterthought.

so, yes pvr350's tv out is great, but there's more to the story than just PQ, and I think recommending a regular video card for output isn't a bad one at all. (it's a much more flexible solution)

*shrug* that's my opinion anyways...

e.

point well taken on the /. submission quality in general =)

"Go to avsforum.com, for instance, and you could spend the next month filling your head with HTPC knowledge that isn't included in this guide"

I think that's the point... wading into AVSforum (which is an excellent resource full of great info, posts, knowledge people) is a little overwhelming... especially the color scheme =)

I mean, that's why I built byopvr... I wanted a more "blue collar"/lowbrow/brass tacts discussion on making cheapo tivo-work-a-likes... not multi thousand dollar projector rooms acoustically tuned for maximum effect (which is cool, just not my budget).

I guess it's just a slightly different audience... and the person that can't JFGI (just effing google it) probably will get lost in the AVS forums.

Hopefully a newbie who reads that guide will have the basis to ask a better question in a forum like mine or AVSforum instead of "I want to build an htpc where do i start?"

*shrug*

e.

ps, from you handle can I surmise that you do GIS work?

"For those of you who are interested in possibly putting together a Home Theatre or Media PC but don't know how to use a search engine, I stumbled upon an excellent guide."

I think it's a good guide that distills alot of the questions a newbie might have to sort through the myriad of possibilities and avenues out there.

I plan on pointing many a newbie in my DIY PVR forum to this guide when they come in posting "I don't even know where to begin?!!?" posts...

Besides, wiseguy... how do you think this guide will be found via the search engines, if it doesn't get linked to on places like slashdot =)

Sure there are other guides out there, but this one is a pretty thoughtful, but not too heavy look at the decision making involved.

*shrug* I liked it...

e.

Build Your Own PVR and DVBn are also good resources if you are looking to build an HTPC

FWIW: even if you have a much more beefy system, you're better off using a tuner/encoder card that has hardware based MPEG encoding.

I use a via epia m10k in one of my PC PVRs and by using a pvr250/350 it handles recording and playback pretty easily.
(gratuituous self links)

The EPIA VIA M-series (and higher like this SP) have a mpeg decoding accelleration (not full on decoding) but it down help.

E.

FWIW: even if you have a much more beefy system, you're better off using a tuner/encoder card that has hardware based MPEG encoding.

I use a via epia m10k in one of my PC PVRs and by using a pvr250/350 it handles recording and playback pretty easily.
(gratuituous self links)

The EPIA VIA M-series (and higher like this SP) have a mpeg decoding accelleration (not full on decoding) but it down help.

E.

I posted some of the screenie from the "members only" download link...

on byopvr

It's not as bad as I thought, but it's still not good...

e.

there's pics in one of the tivo community threads... i've posted the same ones here fwiw

yes... it's currently a windows program, but version SageTV/Media Center 3 is going to be also available on linux. (not OSS though commercial product -- linux media cener announcement)

I use sagetv 2.x on my windoze based PVR (currently, it's in a constant state of flux).

I'm sure there's plugins to do similiar functionality for other PC PVR software solutions (on both windows and linux)

e.

well there's knoppmyth mythtv installer that makes it pretty easy. Pair that with a pvr250 and a nvidia video card and you should be in great shape (I'm reasonably sure in the near future the knoppmyth project will add support for the plextor convertX - I hope)

If you go to the dark side (windoze) it can be pretty easy... shameless plug check out some of the articles on byopvr.com for some good diy background, recommendations, etc..

e.

The flag isn't dead *yet*... IANAL but my understanding is there's another step to stop it's implmentation. i.e. the judges (2 of them anyways) agreed that it was a ludicrous overreach by the FCC to be enforcing copyright laws and outside their mandate. Unfortunately that revelation won't stop the courts from screwing up the final decision and letting the Broadcast Flag come to fruition.

Also as noted by previous posters, even if FCC gets the full smackdown, they seem confident they can go to congress and get them to pass the mandate they didn't have to begin with =(

I posted a bunch of Broadcast Flag related links here

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Hey, I wouldn't say you have to be a linux genius... just be able to burn a bootable knopppmyth ISO =)

The latest alpha knopmyth revision has built in support for the HD-3000 IIRC.

I did find the included documentation a little thin on the HD3000, but there is a helpful hd-3000 forum and failing that you can come to my build your own PVR site with questions/pointers/etc...

Although note: I haven't gotten around to installing my HD-3000 as of yet. Too many PVR cards/software too little time.

e.

Time Warner Cable offers a PVR.

"Here's what I want - I want to be able to watch Tivo recorded programs elsewhere besides the family room. I figure here are my options:"

"Build MythTV box. Not gonna happen in my house, as I could never get away with having a noisy server sitting in the entertainment center..."

You don't *have* to put the "media center server" in the same room as the TV... you can use thin clients over a wired network like MediaMVP (quasi how to "thrifty pvr" article on my site)

People use modd'ed xboxes as the front end of their mythTV/other media/PVR backend.

That's just one approach... there's a couple others that are worth investigating.

e.

tivo doesn't suck (and yes I have/use one).

But they are getting a little to cozy with the content providers and advertisers for my taste, hence why I also use a homebrew PVR so that the "man" can't tell me how long I can keep six feet under "taped" or whether or not I can backup Sopranos to DVD.

=P

with that said, I'm eager to see how well TivoToGo works as it does address one of my major annoyances with TiVo STB (vs homebrew PVR/Myth boxen) -- content portability.

e.

I have looked into this cool linux product from Hauppauge and it looks promising.

Here are some links to get you started.

http://knoppmythwiki.homelinux.org/index.php?page= MediaMVP_LinuxHOWTO
http://www.byopvr.com/displayarticle191.html
http://www.shspvr.com/forum/index.php?h=0&pf=0&c=9

could they pick some of the crappiest cheeziest bunch of external tuners to test?

What about hauppauge wintv usb 2 or plextor convertX PVR (which has both PC and Mac pvr software)

For internal devices I like the wintv pvr250. Yes the pvr150 is cheaper and comes with a better remote/ir blaster, but the pvr250 is better supported in linux with the ivtv drivers being pretty mature/stable for that card.

*shrug*

rampy

" I still think Beyond TV snapstream is the only logical option on windows XP due to price and the fact that it runs on virtually all cards. MythTV and other open source projects seem so raw still"

plug I just posted a review of BeyondTV 3.5 on my site. There's also SageTV on windoze that's good. (sage tv review)

GBPVR is free as in beer and although an independent project hangs pretty well with the commercial apps in most respects, from what I understand.

Also commercial is Meedio HTPC which used to be myHTPC which has a beta PVR plugin that should be not beta pretty soon.

GotTV (no link handy sorry) recently spun into something else, and is also windows and "free" (not sure if it's FOSS or not...)

Have you used mythTV lately? I'm not sure you are giving it a fair shake. I think the issue is more the complexity of the install/linux learning curve than usability/look and feel issues... (hopefuly efforts like knoppmyth mitigate that a little bit)

*shrug* that said, I do like the polish and all the features of BTV, but there's a lot of options out there, and i'm glad to see media portal's (and xmbc's) progressing nicely)

e.

" I still think Beyond TV snapstream is the only logical option on windows XP due to price and the fact that it runs on virtually all cards. MythTV and other open source projects seem so raw still"

plug I just posted a review of BeyondTV 3.5 on my site. There's also SageTV on windoze that's good. (sage tv review)

GBPVR is free as in beer and although an independent project hangs pretty well with the commercial apps in most respects, from what I understand.

Also commercial is Meedio HTPC which used to be myHTPC which has a beta PVR plugin that should be not beta pretty soon.

GotTV (no link handy sorry) recently spun into something else, and is also windows and "free" (not sure if it's FOSS or not...)

Have you used mythTV lately? I'm not sure you are giving it a fair shake. I think the issue is more the complexity of the install/linux learning curve than usability/look and feel issues... (hopefuly efforts like knoppmyth mitigate that a little bit)

*shrug* that said, I do like the polish and all the features of BTV, but there's a lot of options out there, and i'm glad to see media portal's (and xmbc's) progressing nicely)

e.

Right. So the original question poster is looking for a linux-friendly HDTV PCI card with digital I/O and QAM decoding support, have I got that right?

There seems to be some good information here. Ignore the "DVIco FusionHDTV DVB-T Digital TV Tuner Card"; it's composite and SVHS input only. The MyHD MPD-120 Tuner (actual MPD-120 mfg. product link here) has a DVI-in daughterboard, which is nice (though it doesn't have QAM decoding, apparently). It also outputs IEEE1394, but under Windows XP only, which sucks. But it does have component video analog output. So that might be useful, but doesn't seem to be the holy grail.

Right. So the original question poster is looking for a linux-friendly HDTV PCI card with digital I/O and QAM decoding support, have I got that right?

There seems to be some good information here. Ignore the "DVIco FusionHDTV DVB-T Digital TV Tuner Card"; it's composite and SVHS input only. The MyHD MPD-120 Tuner (actual MPD-120 mfg. product link here) has a DVI-in daughterboard, which is nice (though it doesn't have QAM decoding, apparently). It also outputs IEEE1394, but under Windows XP only, which sucks. But it does have component video analog output. So that might be useful, but doesn't seem to be the holy grail.

Will I get cheaper monthly service fees for my Tivo because their costs will be offset by *shudder* these banner ads?

Granted, if TiVo needs the ad revenue to stay solvent, I guess it's necessary (the TiVo is doorstop without the service, well sorta =))

But they might be shrinking their market to tap these new ad based revenue streams, which will make the ad placements be worth less...

Apparently it won't be cable companies clumsy DVR's, or even us diy PVR'ers (shameless plug), or dillution of "brand/identity" that kills TiVo... it will be TiVo killing TiVo with practices and commitments that aren't in their CONSUMERS best interest.

Why would someone who buys a special box and pays a monthly (or lifetime) service fee to skip commercials put up with replacement commercials during the commercial skipping process?!?! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

Furthermore what advertiser in their right mind would want to reach people that ADD and disposition makes them actively adverse to ads? And if tivo's DVR/PVR share decreases what will those banner ads be worth to the advertisers then?

Will DirecTivo's be effected by this change? (and will this hasten DirecTV's dance away from TiVo specific DVRs?)

*Shrug*

self serving plug =P

Build Your Own PVR Community has lots of links, reviews, and discussions of the myriad of DIY PVR/DVR/HTPC options out there...

There is stuff that works better than MCE 2005 (both on windoze and linux platform) depending on what you want to do/accomplish.

e.

That pulls/plays content from it's local drives and from over the network. My buddy uses a MediaMVP to good effect for pulling mpeg2, mp3, photo's, etc content over a wired network to his TV.

That and some ball bearings, and prestone antifreeze...

e.

although not free as in speech... GBPVR does some of the same UI through the pvr350's tv out as SageTV (and mythTV with the special IVTV drivers)

fwiw I've got a review of sagetv 2.0 with screenshots n' stuff... if you wanted to contrast with Steve525's experience (hey steve!)

IMHO the main differences between sagetv and beyondtv is this:

equally polished and tivo-esque, more or less

SageTV has more media htpc-esque functionality like mp3 jukebox, photo's, etc...
the previously mentioned pvr350 UI overlay support

BeyondTV has remote scheduling capability (i.e. login from work and schedule a show/etc)

BeyondTV supports software encoding cards like ATI AIW whereas sagetv/et al will only use hardware encoding cards.

*scratches head* I think that's in a nutshell...

I'll be building a knoppmyth box soon, but don't have the hands on opinion of mythtv besides what I garner from the mailing lists/etc...

There's a ton of other options out there... new on the block is Meedio (formerly the free as in beer, myHTPC.net)... and a bunch of others Media Portal is OSS... uhm... freevo on linux, whatever GOTTV's latest incarnation is...

e.

How is Sage TV?

I like it. The interface is pretty polished, and it can do anything I expect a PVR to do. I've written extensively about it over at www.byopvr.com. http://www.byopvr.com/Journal+index-jop-browse-mod e-story-uid-525.html

From what I read BeyondTV is perhaps even more polished, but SageTV supports the hardware decoder of the PVR-350, which was important to me.

My gripes have been it's been challenging to set up, and displaying the user interface on the PVR-350 is problematic. (The PVR-350 problems are almost certainly the driver's fault, not SageTV's. Other software that puts a UI on the PVR-350, MythTV and GB-PVR, have the same problems).

The advantages to this setup over other TiVo or MCE, is that the files can easily be edited and burned to DVD for safe keeping, plus you can use your computer to play games, view pictures, downloaded moview, etc.

There's more than one way to skin the homebrew PVR cat... keep the PC out of the living room. Use a MediaMVP (or other network streaming device that is quiet/small/sexy) or a Mod'ed Xbox as a client, keep the noisey uber-server in the basement/closet/other room.

Although a Tivo can be cheaper, even considering lifetime subscription... it's more about control/creativity than anything financial.

BTW, don't like a computer case looks? Mod it! A buddy of mine modded a satellite case to be his PVR viva la dremel! c'mon this is /. we don't buy our gaming PC's from Alienware, we build them custom (right?)

It can't be *THAT* hard to shlop knoppmyth and a pvr250 into a spare PC to get going, but the devil is certainly in the details/tweaks, that I can atest too =)

e.

besides the pvr350 part of your setup (which has it's own quirks), did you consider checking out knoppmyth to potentially cut down on the build/install time?

*shrug* FWIW there are other "off the shelf" commercial (and free) 3rd party PVR/htpc software solutions out there... although they are on the *gasp* windows platform *ducks*... I liked SageTV... BeyondTV has been getting good reviews... and GBPVR is very full featured, FREE as in beer (not source), and is pretty cool overall. There's a lesser known HTPC solution that's open source for windoze Media Portal... I've got a growing list of PVR/HTPC links here

Also there are other linux based OSS pvr solutions besides myth/knoppmyth... like freevo, dave and dina multimedia project, and a few others I can't recall...

*shrug*

e.

All the more reason to Build your own PVR (yes it's my site and a blatant plug, but it's relevant)

Yes it can be more expensive than buying a TiVo down at Fry's/Best Buy, but you get more control over your content, at least until the big bad broadcast flag comes to town in July '05. Oh, and no monthly fees =)

*shrug* YMMV, and I do love my TiVo except for when I want to move content off it...

e.

Hauppauge MediaMVP is less than 100 bucks at PCAlchemy

There's pleny of mediamvp hacking (including work on a mythtv client) and 3rd party client replacements out there like gbpvr (how to article on my site )

*Shrug*

e.

"Could somebody point me to a homebrew PVR tutorial?"

boy do I have the place for you

Build your Own PVR Community (shameless plug, I know)

=)

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ah but that's after rebate =)

Tivo's are great (I love mine), but I really like the flexibility of rolling my own ( so much so I put up a community dedicated to building your own PVR )

DIY is MORE about control and creativity than it is about saving a buck (you'd figure the /. OSS zealots would be more into a TRUE OSS HTPC than the linux-based but mostly propietary/locked up (series 2) TiVo box).

Although if you are creative with existing components you can build a tivo-esque workalike pretty cheap.

And don't forget our tinfoil hat paranoid faction, who would rather have control of who or which company's get our viewing habit data (anonymized/aggregated or not).

*shrug* YMMV

e.

ah but that's after rebate =)

Tivo's are great (I love mine), but I really like the flexibility of rolling my own ( so much so I put up a community dedicated to building your own PVR )

DIY is MORE about control and creativity than it is about saving a buck (you'd figure the /. OSS zealots would be more into a TRUE OSS HTPC than the linux-based but mostly propietary/locked up (series 2) TiVo box).

Although if you are creative with existing components you can build a tivo-esque workalike pretty cheap.

And don't forget our tinfoil hat paranoid faction, who would rather have control of who or which company's get our viewing habit data (anonymized/aggregated or not).

*shrug* YMMV

e.

" "Offer a software package for sale that will run on any Windows-based PC. TiVo should leverage their name brand recognition and become a powerful software player."

If TiVo were to offer their software separately, why would I buy it, when I can go and get something like MythTV for free?"

besides the work in progress windows based mythTV client, myth isn't really available for windows...

Of course there is GBPVR which is windows and free as in beer.

Sage TV IMHO ( review ) is pretty close to usability as Tivo... and there's also SnapStream's Beyond TV ... both are windows based commercial software PVR solutions which there ARE a market for.

So, in short even though YOU'd download knoppmyth or mythtv for free... others would be interested in TiVo on teh windoze platform... (or on linux for that matter).

Regardless of platform (win/linux) if tivo created a software package that installed as easily as the settop box... and was as easy to use it would be of interest to people on BOTH platforms... (even with knoppmyth/etc I don't think it's *quite* easy enough for "anyone" to install and configure... but it's certainly getting there)

E.