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Quake 4 Announced
Warrior-GS writes: "This just in from QuakeCon in Texas: Id Software and Raven Software will be joing forces on Quake 4. Id and Nerve Software are also going to working on some unspecified game. Carmack is giving his talk right now. GameSpyDaily has all the details."
I can't wait.. Try as I might, I can't get the OS X Q3 update to work on my rig.
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Just a small point: Half-Life is basically one part Quake 1, a pinch of Quake 2, and the rest is Valve's own recipe. Email Valve if you don't believe this.
Imagine hundreds of screaming, headless kamakaze's running towards you, followed by a few big robots, and thousands of annoying little frogs.
A typical Serious Sam level.
The beuty of all the ID software games is the unprecedented mod capability.. id always beats everyone in the engine arena and they do it quicker.. They realized the success behind the original quake.. put a solid engine out there and let the community produce the really great mods and addons to ultimately take the gameplay to the limits of all YOUR imaginations.. i personally dont look forward to single player games anymore unless they are REALLY REALLY great (there arent many), I look forward to a great engine with mods that kick ass. I mean really, how many ppl after quake1 bought the game for the single player experience... So no.. quake is not repetive to me.. its another revolution in modding capabilites and 3d game engine technology, making mods much more enjoyable
>What's with this obsession with demonic nonsense, anyway?
Would you rather shoot at robots?
what you all seem to fail to notice is the many thousands of spin offs from id engines we have seen along the way, with half-life, voyager and sin being the more recent and memorable ones... none of these games would have been nearly so good or even existed with out id throwing out plot free games
But, as a point of reference I noticed that FreeCiv was one of the installed packages on my system. I've never played it, I've never even looked at it. I started up the server, typed "start". It responded that more players were needed, so I started up the client. Again I typed "start" in the server window. Bingo, I'm playing.
I'm not entirely sure where the hours of set up are involved. Perhaps people on the short bus type really really slowly.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
It's all what you're used to. I started out playing Q1 in 320x240 software mode and even when I got a voodoo card I still played in software mode. Why? Because GLQuake felt the tiniest bit different and threw off my timing a little bit. At that time I was playing enough ( read: day and night) that I would notice even the slightest difference.
When Q2 came out I *HATED* it (still do in fact). It just feels all wrong.
So like I said, it's all what you're used to.
- Toby
The only reason you cannot find q3 servers is because your cracked copy won't let you use the legit ones.
I'm hoping it'll be more along the lines of "Quake IV: A New Hope."
Alien vs Predator. Scariest game I've ever played.
I didn't see it coming. I expected (hoped?) that after Doom 3, Carmack would finally do something more interesting than another FPS.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Have you tried this mod?
http://www.planetunreal.com/u4e/
awesome...
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Probably not, because it seems to be following a roman numeral pattern. 4 in roman numerals is not IIII, it's IV. How that's going to be integrated into the logo, I have no idea.
Volumetric fog. This was not done in a video game before Q3
Delta packets - Q3 was designed from the ground up to be a networked game and innovations such as delta packets resulted from this.
Ballistic parametrics - Instead of bullet positions being relayed over a network, Q3 relays position, velocity, acceleration. Remember physics? This is enough to describe the entire trajectory, making for a large bandwidth saver.
Linux (thank you Loki) - It took a *long* time for Q1 and Q2 to be playable in Linux. Loki accomplished this quickly
What else did I miss?
Keeping
*goes back to Galaxian on his Apple II+*
The coolest voice ever.
Nothing like a good look at Stef to cheer you up, huh? :)
No, actually, HaLFlife was based on the quake 2 engine, heavily modified. (not the grandparent)
<br><br>
--</i>cheers</i>
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
I wouldn't mind seeing Crouching Tiger style effects.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
a bad game EVER that I can recall. Maybe there is HOPE for the Quake series. Q3 was a poor 2nd place to UT in almost every facet. Hopefully they won't depend entirely on BOTs :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I don't believe you. I don't see anywhere near enough skin, on models or anyone else. (Except myself, but that ceased to be interesting a couple of decades ago.)
And the brethren went away edified.
Call this game Quake 4 just to screw with people's heads. Then come out with this Über-engine called Doom 3, and sell it to everyone.
HAH!
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
Well maybe that's it. Multiplayer just doesn't thrill my nads either. I've participated in maybe a dozen multiplayer deathmatches and they just utterly fail to get my rocks off. It's the repetitiveness of it all. Also, in 1996, getting multiplayer games to work at all was more work than the game itself. Even quake, which I used to do with my brother all the time, had some serious problems. All told I'll play banjo-kazooie before I play another FPS. Half life was really good. It was almost like a movie. Duke Nukem Never, when it never comes out, will be interesting. If never it does.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
That's one way of looking at Id software :)
Ok, yes I know this is slashdot and people feel the need to bitch non-stop here, but seriously, what is all the complaining about? Sure the Quake series hasn't really seen innovation in gameplay, but that's because iD has been busy making kick-ass engines. Engines which get picked up by developers that can spend more time making kick-ass games because they don't have to spend time writing their own graphics engine. I personally love Q3, but I admit it can get repetitive. But you can go out and pick up some of the fancy mods and play with those if the pure game is too basic. Why can't iD just be thought of as an engine developer rather than a game developer? Of course a game that tries going on graphics alone isn't going to be as fun as one with addicting gameplay, but on the other hand, that eye-candy that all of you seem to be trashing has really pushed hardware limits, which has applications *gasp* outside of gaming. And this could be a good trend we're seeing. The engine designers separate from the game developers, and we get better products from both ends, which merge to make spectacular games. Think of the most fun and addicting game you've ever played, and now think of it using the most realistic and amazing graphics you can imagine; that's what we could be moving toward.
I'd rather see people like iD focus on what they're good at (game engines that push hardware limits) and have others focus on coming up with innovative new game ideas that can use those engines.
Still waiting for slashdot to give me a password.
That you're an idiot?
There are real game programmers who read Slashdot bitch.
So, so gay.
Or, I could do what I've always done, and play games that I enjoy playing. Maybe I like shooting anything that moves. If done well, it can be exciting. I don't give a rat's ass about gameplay, I only care about how much fun I have. I refuse to subscribe to the elitist attitude that if a game affects me only on the basest levels, it is below me. If I have fun shooting things, good. I will continue to shoot things.
thats not really a lot of details
thats not realy a big post!
For those interested:
http://www.shackes.com and http://www.linuxgames.com have more information.
Hasn't this genre been played out yet?
Where's the innovation?
Dancin Santa
Eww, no thanks. Romero on the other hand...
"Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
I can get tired of it very quick. I have every version of Quake yet published. But the day after I installed Counter Strike, the Quake games went into my recycle folder. Quake was great fun when I was a kid but I'm getting older and the realism (relatively speaking) of CS is just what the doctor ordered.
Counterstrike is what the new FPS games have to beat. I hope the software publishers realise that- otherwise they'll have an unpleasant year.
GallandI can't believe how ignorant some of you are. If you had read closely, you would probably know by now that Quake 4 is to be developped by Raven Software and merely supervised by id Software, pretty much like Return to Castle Wolfenstein was done with whatever company is developping it.
Raven Software is not only a great games company, but it's also very good at making single player games. Remember Hexen, Soldier of Fortune, Elite Force? Raven are probably one of the best companies out there, and I'm pretty sure Quake 4 will rock, seeing as with id's (well, mostly johnc's) talent in making impressive game engines, and Raven's talent in making impressive and well-designed single player games. Q4 will most certainly be much more than just a 3d card benchmark, or an engine demo.
The fools here who hastily read the announcement and only bothered to think "Oh yay another benchmark, id suxxx ass l0l" should be shot. id Software is good at making engines, as some of you pointed out, but not very good at making single player games. They seem to have realised this, and both Wolfenstein and Quake 4 are a good example of this. The new Doom project is a big question mark at the moment, but Quake 4 (and Wolfenstein, for that matter), certainly aren't.
you mean something like this?
i dunno.. doesn't work for me
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Well, for one, Quake 4 is gonna be on Stroggos again, which means no medieval/demonic stuff.
Just industrial/demonic stuff instead. -_^
There are plenty of people who find the pristine labratories of Half Life utterly boring, and revel in Quake's other-dimensional weirdness. Thankfully, the world is big enough for both types of games. So come on down, join the Morlocks, we're running the show in the end!
Neither?
I don't give a rat's ass who uses a particular piece of software.
I gotta agree with the "Q3 player control was too 'soft and squishy'" comment. I really enjoyed Q1 and Q2 (*especially* Q2) though. The other thing that sucked about Q3 was that just about every server I got a good ping to seemed to be infested with complete dorks with no sense of respect for anyone else playing (not that online dorks were id's fault [hmmm, though the player-kick bug that could be foiled by rapid name changing certainly DID contribute]).
Maybe they should call it Automatics for the People and get REM to do the sounds this time.
When the world is a monster... blast it to bits.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Take a look at id software's corporateQuake engine licensing page. Second paragraph under 'The GPL'd Quake Engine'.
For some reason this is a common misconception, maybe because Half-Life came out after Quake II.It is an important point because Counterstrike, a mod of a game based on a five year old engine, is the most popular online 3D shooter (based on number of servers).
Bleh!
You didn't point out flaws, you made a blanket statement and claimed that any open source application must be "dicked around" with for hours before it's functional.
I have a computer illiterate grandmother using Mandrake 8 that would disagree with you. Well, actually she wouldn't know what the hell you were talking about with software coding and interfaces... but she thinks the mozilla lizard is cute.
Some examples for future reference-
Here's a flaw in closed source software:
IIS has had several security vulnerabilities in the recent past, and with no way to audit it, we'll never know where the next one will crop up until it's too late.
Here's a flaw in open source software:
Desktop environments like KDE and Gnome consume a tremendous amount more resources than simple window managers.
...and here is an unfounded statement that constitutes a troll:
jchristopher smells like ass.
"Where shall the word be found, where will the word resound? Not here, there is not enough silence." -T.S. Eliot
I hope they put more focus on the "fun" part, because they dropped the ball on Quake III. It's been all Unreal Tournament for me for the last 18 months.
Agreed. Really unfortunate, because Q3 has a MUCH better quality engine. With UT I keep seeing miscellaneous display glitches.
Example: on the CTF map with the two big towers and just a couple paths between them, you can go up on the top and grab a sniper rifle. Go up there are zoom in on the top of the enemy's tower - if someone's up there, and they start walking around, it won't display correctly. Looks like they're walking in the middle of the wall or something.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
That's why Carmack is rich: He can imagine beowulf clusters of things that, before him, no one would ever have thought clusterable.
at your local liquor store.
I always thought Half-Life was a freaky game to play in the dark. Especially when the areas you were in had either very few humans around or just slaughtered scientists. You knew you were heading into some bad territory then. I still beleive Half-Life has some of the best designed maps and "natural-threats" (I forget the term) around - nothing like running down a shaking hall and getting smashed by a falling mainframe :)
Let's not even mention the incredible storyline that Half-Life had that put you right in the middle of the entire conflict.
Seriously, though... id Software makes great game ENGINES... they do NOT, however, make great games.
... they don't make great games, just the most popular games. Oops...
You are correct
"And like that
"the quake 3 mod scene is far superior to the half life mods" ;)
Really? Are you including Counter-Strike? Last I checked, CS players outnumbered the players of any other mod for Half-Life OR Quake by at least 5:1 (that number comes from a poll I saw somewhere... I forget where it was though.)
Also, I play both CS and TFC and I've NEVER had a problem finding a lag-free server to play on that had a full room for either mod. Maybe you're just too picky with your filter settings.
As you say though, it *does* come down to personal preference. I guess some people just like the kind of mindless shooting associated with Quake and its mods, while more thoughtful, strategy-type people like HL and its mods.
I'm tired of fragging frigging jack rabits that have the jump button on auto-fire. Hell, I think I liked DOOM better, no jumping, no ducking, and auto aim. It was simple.
Whoopdedai! Jesus, Carmack was once pretty orignal but I'm guessing that F50 has gone to his head and eaten all the original ideas up! You know, I still say it was Abrash's innovation that made Quake, and NOT Carmack. The guy is all washed up! All that money, all those resources and what do we get folks???! QUAKE 4. HAR HAR HAR
What happened to DOOM3?
Have you ever seen what he looks like? Woody Allen could kick his ass, and Woody Allen is pushing 70!
Quake was and isn't about single player.
That's not a big surprise. He was always a big fan of NeXT, which was his primary development platform for years.
Quake 4: Attack of the Clones
Stupid people are funny. Yes, I'm talking about you. Thanks for providing me with a cheap belly laugh at your expense...
will there be whales?
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
I'm really looking forward to this. The trip back to the Strogg universe is a good thing for people like me to enjoyed Quake II + Expansion Packs. While I love Quake III, I really do enjoy the single-player "one-many-army" games, a la Half-Life.
Better yet would be a trip back to the types of levels we saw in the original Quake - the kind of medival architecture and enemies that made me afraid to play the game alone at night. :)
...a beowulf cluster of these? Carmack obviously can.
[That's the sound of a comment going over your head]
All your quake are belong to us...
I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
Bungie has never specified a release date for Halo - I used to go to the local Babbage's and ask when it would be out, then mail that date to the Bungie guys so they could have a good laugh. Bungie has always had a policy of "It'll be done Soon(tm)". After they were acquired by M$, this changed. Now it'll be done Nov. 8, to coincide with the XBox release date (Halo will be a release title). Check out http://halo.bungie.org for more info. BTW, the PC version should be 4-6 months after the XBox vers., but that's no guarantee. They plan on sleeping for a month after launch!
Indeed... let us share a hearty laugh at his expense...
It may come as a surprise to the
Yeah, it may be kinda off-topic I suppose, but my point is this: it's good to see linux games starting to take off.
High-quality Linux web hosting for geeks and coders.
This means that there's another version of Quake that'll be out that I'll have no desire in owning. Oh wow, another first person shooter. The whole idea of this type of game was tired after Wolfenstein 3D. "Press the painting... oh look, a secret area." Oh, for the days when games concentrated on GAME PLAY and not graphics.
They teamed with Nerve company in anticipation of people demanding to know why they have the nerve to milk their cash cow some more.
Ok at this point they are just cashing in on the name.
Stop while the name Quake still has some dignity.
I'm not so sure we had one in 2000. I did see a really funny circus. But election? That would imply that something was decided.
I just hope DUKE NUKEM "takin' forever" comes out before quake 8 hits the holoscreens....
Imagine, a game that has the fear factor of Doom, the physics of Q2, and the eye candy of Q3. I can hope, can't I?
You aren't the only one hoping buddy. If they could create a game like that, it would be the first fps I've bought since Doom2. I've played Quake2 and it was fun, but not enough for me to actually go out and buy it. Fun to play every now and then at a friends house, but not enough to actually buy.
The fear factor of Doom is what made me love it, and the quake series just hasn't had that. Doom is the only game that can make me jump 5 feet out of my chair and cause me physically look around.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
So Quake 5 will be IIII with a slash through it (how do you do that in one line of ascii, anyway?)
I REMEMBER Ivan :)
He's on Kuro5hin now - or at least someone posing as him - the person DOES have an extremely abrasive on-line personality though, so maybe....
Kevin Christie
crispiewm@hotmail.com
Ouch ouch ouch! I've taken 5 years of Latin, and your sig practically burned my eyes. Errors everywhere.
It should read: "Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes".
For those of us hooked on the digital crack that is Quake II & (especially) III, this is good news indeed. Oh, yes. Also to be looked forward to: Unreal 2. The screenshots of that bad boy make me drool.
squake was coded up by a friend of mine [who still doesn't his name to be mentioned], a teenager at the time. He hacked it in like 1 or 2 nights after recieving the leaked source from someone, and then passed it [the hacked source] on (fearfully, even) to Carmack who was mighty displeased but... well, the rest is history.
:(
A shame that he can't take credit for his work
I quote from the link: "Quake 4, which will take a trip back to the Quake 2 Strogg universe. It will be using the latest id technology -- namely the Doom engine -- as well." It will indeed be more Q2ish.
Quake 4: All your bas... Bah not worth the effort. --Yahiko
Everything I say is a lie.
Except that. And that. And that. And that.
I am SICK of people clammoring for all this eye candy shit. And getting all orgasmic about a game that's big promise is to drop your top-of-the-line $300 video card to it's knees so you have to throw it out in favor of ANOTHER more EXPENSIVE video card is wrong on so many levels.
Half-Life, Counter Strike, and the latest update Blue-whatever are based on the Quake I engine, and they kick ass because they are fun to play. And the best games of all time are considered great because of their playability, not because of their eye candy.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if Carmack had heavy investments in nVidia stock. Hopefully when another "gee whiz it looks great but it plays like a dead dog" major release bombs we might get back to what games are best at: being fun.
change the logo. unless they want to keep on squeezing in 'I's between the q-halves. probably wouldn't look to good IMO.
Got Freedom?
Thinking?
These graphics really do look superb
Cedric Balthazar Rotherwood
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java Platform +
System Admin. for Solaris
no it's not a fact...starcraft? halflife SP? etc...besides, how different is, say, Quake 3 from the twitch games of yester-year...pong, tetris, pacman, etc... (except in quake 3 you play against more people)??
I guess the problem is you grew up and decided sitting around playing space invaders for 10 hours wasn't fun.
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis hebes
I think in Quake IV you should have to fight that big Soviet guy who killed Apollo.
Finally, the Rock has come back to Slashdot.
Q4 is NOT id's next project!! Raven is going to do it in paralell with doom3. What id does after doom3 is still unknown.
I doubt they will ever be able to beat the absolute coolness of Quake I. I was hooked on that game from the word go, the whole demon angle, with the Trent Reznor soundtrack, the perfect ambience and the #1 absolute coolest thing... ...NIN gun.
C'mon, you started out on Quake II with a laser gun??? Not even.
Actually, both ways are acceptable. The older Roman way was to add another I to make 4. Later on it was realized that IV would be a lot easier to write than IIII.
Counterstrike is a good mod, i must admit. TFC is ok, but Q3F is much better... I was refering mainly to the small mod makers, including my personal favorite mod, instagib..
Shit adds up at the bottom...
It will almost certainly use Cocoa, not Carbon - it's VERY possible that Quake 4 will not run on classic Mac OS at all. Carmack has said that the only reason he has supported classic Mac OS so far is to support Apple until OSX is ready - he hates classic Mac OS as a dev environment (and really, who can blame him?).
:-)
Cocoa rules.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Big Rodney D. would be proud
Oh, and he said that OS X is going to be his new development platform. No lie. Wish I had a link for ya :-(
Quote "Half-Life, Counter Strike, and the latest update Blue-whatever are based on the Quake I engine, and they kick ass because they are fun to play." Umm.. Actually they're based on the Q2 engine.
Let the video card war begin!
Let the Great House of NVidia and the Great House ATI show me what you are made of!
I'm all confused...
Bleh!
The Windows binary I tried required starting a server app in the GUI, starting the client app in the GUI, then configuring the game on a command line, then starting the game on the command line. If it's preinstalled, obviously, that's different.
"The fear factor of Doom"
I dunno... UT scared the hell outta me the other night.
Someone made a custom CTF map (Project-X is the name) with a 'skaarjlord' lurking about in it.
I turned around to see what was hitting me from behind and all I saw was an outline and these glowing red eyes. My reaction was literally, "OMG WTF is that!!!"
Then it wasted me.
Last thing I expected in a CTF map.
I think we need more things we don't expect.
Haha, nice one :D
Hello! Half-Life would not exist in its current form without the Quake engine! Yes, id's strengths are primarily, perhaps entirely, in the technological AND "eye candy" domains. What you have to be thinking is: what will Valve/whomever be able to accomplish with the doom3 engine?
Just as long as id doesn't forget about those of us who dig good, fun, singleplayer gameplay, as opposed to ho hum multiplayer. Don't tease me with release date shenanigans or release yesterday's product without doing something interesting to it.
Oh, and I ain't suckin' nothing down, neither.
DD
"You can justify anything by putting it in quotes, adding a famous name and making it a sig" - Albert Einstein
No kidding. What ever happened to *story lines* like Doom, Duke Nukem, Unreal (the original first person version) and Half Life? Hell, even Quake 2 had some atmosphere, unlike Quake 3.
Have you seen some of the Unreal 2 screenshots? They depict full landscapes with rolling hills, trees, etc. I can see 3D card makers scrambling to keep up.
Easier to find Quake 3 servers? Where the fuck are you from? CounterStrike outnumbers Quake 3 of any type by at least 10:1, and easily 100:1.
ID, you bastards! Finish one game before starting two others! WE WANT DOOM 3 ALREADY!!! :)
...And am I the only one afraid that Quake 4 will be even more generic than Quake 3? The singleplay in Quake 1 and 2 may not have been the best, but it was still fun to blast through the levels in co-op! This one will be just Doom style deathmatch. No skins, just differnt colors that you aren't allowed to choose. 2.5d levels! Groovy!
Seriously, have you seen the screenshots for doom 3? I'm not a gfx whore or anything, but what I've seen is almost TV quality animation.
I picked up UT for ten bucks anyway, but I don't think I'd get q3 when it's not too much different from either UT or Quake II......and Q2 has plenty of mods!
It's been a long time.
Uhm. Half-Life is a seperate engine completely from Quake 1. Counter Strike and Blue Shift are mods for the half-life engine. The half-life engine is lightyears beyond quake 1.
Where's Ivan Tchekov when you need him?
Where your troll of saying software should be easy to configure to slashdotters is as unimagionative as pointing out plot holes in a Star Wars Forum; Ivan used to troll on the opposite point. They were so inspired that they would get a lot of responces.
He said that computers should be difficult so as to weed out the evolutionary chaff. Then people would really learn how to use computers. Then they would be truely powerful, and not spoonfed imbiciles demanding "Convenience or Death!"
Now, lets raise the bar a bit and see if you can do something more imaginative next time.
Now, if we could only bring back meeeept. Oh well, his day is probably gone, Slashdot is too diverse to focus in on a mindset to pick on.
.
I cant wait, Quake 2 is the best game of all time! Absolutely nothing even comes close, I knew they'd base it on Quake 2. They know its better than Quake 3. Thanks id!!!!
Damn astroturfers. . .
it's been a long day
Thats like saying we are going to have a presidential election in 2004. Its GOING to happen.
it looks *way* too much like the Van Halen logo. :)
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Does anyone remember the DOOM 3 demo movie? It was more like "Resident Evil" style game than a FPS.
(Please do not get me wrong. I really would like to see RE4 on DOOM3 engine).
whats wrong with being up all night and drinking red bull? you'd be amazed how many non-13-year-olds are playing q3... ps..neither of those descriptions apply to me ;)
Uhh.. to all those who say that Quake 2 Single doesn't work, I just beat the game in Hard mode in about 3 weeks. I LOVE Quake 2. Especially on a Riva TNT2 w/ 32MB of memory.
You really believe delta-compression was invented with Q3, don't you? :-\
Sorry, but this is getting boring. Technically the engines are great, but... Wolfenstein, Doom, Doom 2, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3/Quake 3:TA, "Return to Castle Wolfenstein", Doom 3, Quake 4... it's getting a little bit repetitive.
The Looking Glass people did it right with Thief. Red Storm built Rainbow Six around good gameplay, but a crap engine and the worst netcode I've experienced (well, that's a lie -- I'm not counting Operation Flashpoint since I consider it Beta). Couldn't ID take their tech to the tactical level?
I've been waiting for ID to whip up a real good CRPG using a state-of-the-art 3d-engine for some time now... I hope those people over at ID can enjoy games from some other genre than just straight action-FPS, or they'll fade away... I'm not seeing myself buying any of their FPS anyhow. <shrug>.
Ah well, guess we have Bioware and Gas Powered Games to refine and put out some great gameplay for us.
Chris Taylor and John Carmack teaming up, now that could be interesting. Or maybe Jane Jensen doing another Gabriel Knight using Carmack-o-tech. Anything BUT ANOTHER FPS!
Belief is the currency of delusion.
How nice of you to share this with us all. Your mother must be very proud of you.
;-)
...Better than Quake IV: Licensed to Clones
± 29 dB
Something has to push 3D graphics to be faster and better. It might as well be id. I, for one, am happy that I can pick up a GeForce II for $50 at the local computer store. My TNT2 runs Q3 fine, though.
Ancient Romans actually would have used IIII instead of IV -- the second form is actually a modern invention.
I thought 'foxed' was termed by OLGA (and its mirrors) being shut down (ok... attempting to be shut down) by Harry Fox?
----- One piece short of Legoland
While I agree with you that the current trend of graphics over gameplay is destroying gameplay, you should get your facts straight. Half-Life is on a modified Quake 2 engine... not Quake.
yep .. imagine the storyline about how the Sir Cam virus infected the strogg planet and cause all of the robots and machines to mal function..
I would love that :P
But anyway I loved all 3 Quake games .. well actually Quake was a bit well... not as good as Duke Nukem 3D.
When Quake II came out I was in heaven.. the character animations for deaths and everything where really good... good gameplay too.
Now Quake III ... wow! Beautiful graphics, fast gameplay and tons and tons of gibs.
I reckon Quake IV should take Quake III's fast action and add even more eye candy whilst using Quake II's storyline and just make it more interactive.. similar to Half Life.
I will just sit back and wait .. twiddling my thumbs with anticipation
I wonder if it runs linux
Sorry, you're a troll. I agree that some things can be simpler, but even if I had to install it I can find a prepacked RPM or Debian package.
rpm -ivh freeciv.rpm, or something close.
I did a bit more exploring on freeciv, it is extremely configurable, which real civilization isn't (they wouldn't make things really configurable since they can make boatloads more money on seperate scenarios). But still, typing "start" will at least get you playing.
Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware
I totally agree about cocoa... I need true SMP support for my DP533... and OS X makes such a nice game development rig now that you can run photoshop full speed with OS 9 and all your development on ported unix apps.
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
The sad part of the game industry is how all the small shops are folding. That's our (the gamers) fault. Our demands for production value are so high these days that the overhead associated with creating even a modest game is staggering. You need artists, $10k/license 3d modeling packages, specialized motion-capture equipment, powerful workstation-class PCs, shop licenses for Visual C++ and the DirectX SDK, kickbacks to hardware mfgs to get reference HW to test your code on, tons of marketing, junkets for reviewers, and so forth just to be competitive in the market, which has grown to the level of having games in the middle of the aisle in Wal-Mart.
Gaming's become as diversified and complex a business as movies or TV. And like the movies, mainstream gaming is distilling down to a few large publishers (Infogrames, Sierra, MS), and mostly puts out crap. The gems still come from the independent guys who somehow get picked up by a big studio. Bioware/Black Isle and Interplay comes to mind.
You might want to give Serious Sam a shot.
My first time playing it I found myself chuckling *uncontrollably* while shooting *hordes* of oncoming monsters. Lots of monsters. Some of them hundreds of feet tall. (I was playing a network game cooperatively with a friend). I was rolling on the floor when I first picked up a cannon.
The only thing that could be improved would be to add some more levels... say 200 or so... Yeah, 200 levels... that's a nice round number...
hey, jerk-off, you misspelled "the."
..about 5 years ago.
but now quake has been surpassed by UT, Tribes2 and others.
i hope they do something original and fun this time.
So, I guess he was wrong, eh?
-jfedor
the game that can bring my Geforce3 to 30FPS is staggering. I run UT in full glory at 1280x1024 :)
32bit color and get 90-100 FPS, note that is WITH dynamic lighting and ALL the eye candy.
The thought of the amount of data to bring that down to 30 FPS gives me the willies. Is a good time to be a technophile
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I used to think Quake 3 was good, until i played UT. Bring on Unreal Tournament 2
its called Q1. That game will give anyone nightmares. Get Reznor back on music and sound effects. Nothing beats Q1 for atmosphere and ambience.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
bleahgh, stupid extrans.. sorry for the cruft, but I'm too lazy to fix it. I should really change that someday...
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Counterstrike is a Half-Life mod, and Half-Life uses the Quake 1 engine. (notice how it still has the mouselook bug when the console is down.)
Yes, it took that long to release half-life, heh.
I think they get it!
Wrong, Half-life is built fully on the Q1 engine.
Actually, Counter-strike is just a modification for Half-Life, which itself was originally based on the Quake 1 engine, but Valve heavily modified it (skeletal animation, scripting, etc) and rolled in some updates from Quake 2 as well. Thus, the Half-Life engine is really an amalgam of Q1 and Q2, with a lot of Valve thrown in as well. Which, btw, would explain why it's also very dated-looking (which doesn't have to be such a bad thing, as long as the games are still fun).
i'm really curious as to what you think makes half-life more appealing to players who prefer "thoughtful, strategic players." you do realize the only thing that separates half-life from quake is the story? the gameplay is the exact same: shoot the monster, find the key (or flip the switch, or whatever), shoot the bigger monster, find the door.
Screen Shot. However, it is not real :). Saw this on Shacknews.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Okay, it's a minor point, but Unreal featured volumetric fog before Quake 3. (And, for that matter, Unreal's volume fog wasn't restricted to ground fog.)
As far as I'm concerned, single player FPS games got boring after Dark Forces. (Possibly the most amazing FPS ever made.) --Dark Forces was fun was because you got to be in Star Wars, shoot a blaster with Ben Burt sound effects, and take down storm troopers after they bark over their crackly com links, "There he is! Get him!". (Too bad the Star Wars feel got polluted with misplaced James Cameron Terminator stuff. . , but that's another story. The first mission of that game was the coolest damn thing I ever saw! I was thinking, "Oh no! I MUST capture those Death Star plans! The Resistence; heck, super-babe of the entire male X-Gen youth, Princess Leia herself, is counting on me!)
Damn, that was a good game. And no saves between levels. That's what fun is all about!
Anyway, Half Life was also sort of neat. Finally somebody did something semi-worthwhile with the whole X-Files bullshit parade. --Although, the game made the entire American military look like a bunch of poorly trained retards. . . "Forget Freeman! That geek boy is just too good for our armor plated super-trained asses! Run for your lives!" But that's just a bit of weak writing; the rest of it was engaging, --Although, I could have done with about 10 fewer levels of endless weird-space or wherever the heck all that boring alien bullshit was taking place.
But Quake? Hell, ID, in general. . . Is it just me or is Carmack and his team of CRT radiated white & pasty code monkeys members of the Todd McFarlane jar-headed "Cuz, demons are like, fuckin' cool," posse? Give me a break already. What's with this obsession with demonic nonsense, anyway? It isn't frightening, it isn't interesting, and the fabled Quake 'atmosphere' just makes me feel I've got slime on my boots, hands and elbows. Ooh. Fun. Slime. Honestly! Why would anybody want to spend their free gaming time crawling around in drippy torture chamber hallways? I bet even the undead hate their digs, which would explain their foul tempers.
To ID: Either come up with an aesthetic which isn't loaded down with painfully obvious Freudian highschool washroom references, or go live in the sewers with the rest of the fricking Morlocks.
Sheesh.
Lad out.
Fantastic Lad - The most opinionated Lad of the all!"
Nonono... Carbon is just a compatibility hack. Real apps should be build with Cocoa, but I'm sure Carmack doesn't need to be told. As we all remember, OpenStep (now Cocoa) was the original development platform for Doom and Quake. So when he says that MOSX is his "new" development platform, he really means "old".
Any sufficiently advanced civilization is indistinguishable from Gods.
I'm looking forward to Quake 4: Quaker.
It must be hard to come up with new names. Hmm, Pentium IV, Quake IV, Code Red III. While we're at it, has anyone come up with a name for this decade? I propose we call it: Y2K + 1
Seriously though, this is going to have to stop sometime - I don't want to be playing Quake 69 on my Pentium 69.
---
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
They had best give the player the chance to wield two weapons at once, a la Unreal Tournament.
In the meantime, I can't wait for Bid For Power, quite the kickass Q3 mod.
And what is happening to Doom 3? Wasn't that being developed as well?
Oh well.
-
whatdoyougetwhenyoumultiplysixbynine
Yes, I've seen some on UnrealEngine.com our host, MAN it looks impressive. Soon we will be playing TV like games :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I'd just like to say Unreal sucks and always has.
Duke's a flamer too
Quake I was pretty boring. After I got over the 360 degree view, I realized that the levels were all demonstrations of "look, we can do full 360 degree views!!!" I could play through the entire first four shareware episodes in under thirty minutes. I finished the full game in under three hours. no, I don't play on nightmare skill level. The interesting part of the game, to me, is not killing the monsters. Adding more of them doesn't make the game more fun. It's figuring out the level. Well in Quake they might as well paint arrows on the walls. I never got stuck in Quake.
But that's entirely subjective. I have great praise for Quake as a game . . . engine. But as an actual game it seems to lack something. It's not challenging for me to click the joystick trigger hundreds of times. I want my brain to get exercised as well.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
In one important aspect Quake was a step backwards. That aspect was the move from sprites to polygons. Whereas before, bodyparts had rounded curves, starting with Quake everything is jagged edges. It looks artificial and unnatural. It reminds of a wooden puppets -- hunks of wood connected by string. But more importantly than the look of monsters, is that now because of polygons there can only be a few monsters on the screen at a time (I haven't played Serious Sam so I don't know if it is an exception). I still remember the adrenaline rush of opening a door in Doom 2 and finding a whole room full of imps. I miss the chaos and insanity of level 30 of Doom 2. I miss the huge brawls that broke out. I miss the sound of 30+ monsters grunting and screaming in rage and pain. I miss, in the other levels, maneuvering all the monsters into one place and getting a huge fight to break out among them. In that important aspect, it's been all downhill ever since Doom.
amen. long live Unreal Tournament. long live dreamcast and long live seganet
cyberbob
We seldom regret saying too little but often regret saying too much.
funny, I'm still hooked on quake1 because I thought the physics in quakeworld & quake2 & quake3 sucked.
I'd been playing FPS for 6 or 7 years and no monsters scared me anymore, until the first time I encountered those lizards in Return to Na Pali. Those suckers can run as fast as you (maybe slightly faster). The first time I saw a pack of them I turned and ran off to a safe place to pick them off from a distance. When I turned to fire at them, I was horrified to find that they were already right on top of me gnawing away at me. A shiver literally went down my spine. Having a pack of them come running at me full speed stills gives me a shiver. Until Return to Na Pali, you've always had the advantage of being faster than any monster in the game. Having a monster that can consistently reach you before you can kill it is frightening.
I guess some people just like the kind of mindless shooting associated with Quake and its mods, while more thoughtful, strategy-type people like HL and its mods.
Yes, mindless shooting seems to be *associated* with Quake all too often. There is just as much thought and strategy going into a good game of Q3 as a good game of Counter-Strike. The difference is that the thinking is happening in a quarter of a second rather than over the span of a minute. Unfortunately, Q3 degenerates into a mindless sea of bullets all too often. The Q3 maps were designed for 4-6 players for a good reason. Pack 20 players in a small area and you get a spamfest; spread 20 players out enough and they dont get involved enough for direct competition. Unfortunately, a lot of servers will set their player limit WAY too high. Try either playing a smaller game or get Rocket Arena, and see if its as mindless as you thought. I dont see how CS and TFC are that awfully strategic anyway...
Ok first Code Red II and III, and now Quake IV man everybody knows that it just gets worse after the first one...
Hacked by Microsoft!!!
Somehow I doubt it. Why? Probably because idSoftware wants people to USE their software, not dick around for hours setting it up. Compare this to the open source model, where the program is frequently only useful to the people who wrote it.
Wake up! If you can't make your software easier to us, the people who need it the most can't use it!
I'm so thrilled!
This makes the fourth Quake that I won't play!
Not that Quake isn't worth it, but I have to be really selective of my games to fit them into a schedule involving work, school, family obligations, a girlfriend, and other friends... Not to mention my precious baby and my recently acquired Gran Turismo 3.
Quake just isn't in my past our future. Never touched any of them.
Actually, it will have the eye-candy of DooM3, not Q3.
Go buy System Shock 2 and go to theunderdogs.net for System Shock 1 if you want fear in your gaming experience. Both are 1st person games, but are not shooters. Personally, I liked Q2 SP a hell of a lot. It didn't scare me, but the design of nearly everything in the game just clicked with me. The monsters looked so damn cool (like that walker-bot thing with the miniguns) and I loved the heavy colored lighting, too, especially when it was used to create a sunlight-through-windows effect.
First of all there's a lot of confusion going on around here. Many ppl actually think that ID is working on Doom3, Quake4 and Doom GBA at the same time and that's not correct. ID is working on Doom3, Raven Software is working on Quake4 (a game built around the Quake2 universe and utilizing the Doom3 tech) and some 3rd company is developing the GBA port for Doom. A sequel based around the Quake2 universe is simply easier to do. No doubt, it would've been even better if Raven could've developed a great game based on the Quake universe, but living up to the expectations would be VERY hard. With Quake2, you have a stronger and simpler overall theme of the game and you can build on it. I'll be taking a loan soon (now seems like a good time) and I am gonna wait until GeForce4 or whatever comes out and upgrade my computer to an 1.7 Ghz AMD when those come out.
All I can say is good... OS 9 is fast... and that's about it. It's like gambling is the best way to put it. When it's working, it's solid computing, but when one little thing goes wrong, everything then goes wrong... I'll take minus alittle speed for stabilty anyday.
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
I think the time has come to tell developers its no longer about making games pretty anymore.. its a fact that the fun is disappearing..do you still play games as long as you used to play ol skool games? max payne and giants are an exception..great game,nice graphics,good story
I'd still play q2 rocket arena, but the linux support is awful. They don't implement either mouse handling or full-screen mode or sound very well, so it's too much of a pain to bother. q3a for linux is much much cleaner, and although its version of rocket arena doesn't compare to ra2, I play it instead.
...if you want to play some titles where gameplay matter, not just all them purty pixchers and the "if it moves, shoot it, you twitchy, been-up-all-night, Red Bull swilling, 13 year-old bastard!" mentality.
I mean really, how much longer will idiots keep buying the same game that DOOM was back in 1993? It was fun for a few weeks in single-player, and a few more weeks after me and some friends cobbled together a few 486/66s and set up a 10Base2 network for deathmatches. After that, yawnsville.
~Philly
i agree, quake series is not a game but a benchmark/engine demo, not actually intended for play by the life endowed.
that's amazingly cool, thanks! Now if only my cable got a ping lower than 300 on a consistant basis :(.
castle wolf.. doom 3.. quake 4.. YAWN.. where's the innovation id? you guys afraid of doing something new? seems like you're stuck in a rut.
If there was a game that you never got sick of and played for years... There are lots of games like that. One example: Grand Prix Legends. Its like you've bougth a violin. You'll never stop plaing, never stop learning.
Actually, after III comes IV, not IIII.
You wanna argue with the nailgun, you go right ahead...
"Id announces Quake4: More of the Same Boring Shit"
Counter-strike is based on Half-Life, and if I'm not mistaken, half-life was created with a heavily modified Q1 engine.
maybe this won't use roman but arabic notation, like in this example...
Trolling using another account since 2005.
how is it i can get modded up for replying to somebody else's redundant post with the above link, and get modded down here for being redundant - i suppose to myself...
oh well, that's slashdot democracy for you...
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
you're the stupidest fuck on the internet
a new benchmark for all the new video cards coming out!
thats not really a lot of details
I still think they should call it "Quake 4: The Voyage Home".
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
"ID Software is good at making engines, as some of you pointed out, but not very good at making single player games."
The sad thing is that back in the days of Doom they used to be the very best at making single player games.
ID has really become a very lame company. I remember thinking back in the day after playing Doom that the FPS just couldn't get any better. I guess ID agreed. They still haven't released a better game than Doom. In fact, they're desperately trying to recapture the game by releasing Doom 3.
Aren't people getting a little sick of "gothic styled mindless FPS's" yet?
I guess it is not Real Soon Now(tm)....
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
where are they going to put the fourth nail in the logo?
Oh yeah, and they better make it run faster on an the Athlon than the P4, or all the /. armchair CPU architects out there are really going to be pissed :-)
Great, now I can get fragged all over the place with a (GASP) new 3d engine!!
Man, I wish I didn't suck.
Another barebones game engine demo with no plot and crappily designed maps tacked on so millions of no-life geeks will play it 24 hours a day!
the irony is, people will waste karma modding me down because they feel I've insulted them.
get... a... LIFE!
Introducing the new Dual Oculon Game engine!
- Infinite color depth!
- Full depth perception!
- TRUE 3D!!!!
- Unlimited size and number of textures!
- True curved surfaces!!!!
- built in model skinning!
All this, and more, comming to a human being near you! Thats right folks, this amazing system comes BUILT IN to EVERY HUMAN BEING THERE IS! AMAZING!!!!!!
blah...
-mithrandir
Thank god the "Matrix-style effects" claim was retracted!
Oh boy! I can't wait to see all the useless benchmarks that this game will generate!
Seriously, though... id Software makes great game ENGINES... they do NOT, however, make great games. I'm sorry, but I had to say it. I always hated Quake, from the first time I played it. Love Half-Life though. I STILL go through the single-player game sometimes because it's FUN! Quake has something lacking in gameplay, always has, and likely always will. Just my thoughts.
*/me gets into fire resistant clothing* Quake addicts, feel free to light up the flamethrowers now.
- Jester
Yes, we haven't had enough first person shooters in the past 5 years. And people wonder why Japanese games are more fun.
Contrary to many a naysayer who says that 'Quake 1/2/3 is dead', people keep playing, and our q2 game servers are actually enjoying a bit of a resurgance (sp). Why? Because it is still one hell of alot of fun to play. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING can compare to the q2 physics. It had an excellent combination of good graphics, excellent multiplayer code, and physics that allowed to game to be fast paced, but not too fast paced where it seemed too unreal (no pun intended). Counterstrike, one of the most popular multiplayers games at this time, is based on the q2 engine (heavily modified by Valve), so this says something about the enduring appeal of q2, and its associated engine.
Q3 was cute, and had excellent eye candy, but I found it to be entirely unplayable. I did not enjoy the levels (even thou they were beautiful), nor did I enjoy how my character handled. It was too 'soft and squishy' for my tastes. It was obvious that ID wrote it not to sell it as a game itself, but to sell the engine to mod builders.
I can only hope that ID learns from its previous games, and can somehow capture the strong points of all their titles.
Imagine, a game that has the fear factor of Doom, the physics of Q2, and the eye candy of Q3. I can hope, can't I?
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
so, is this what we have to look forward to?
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Good funny, but actually, since it uses the new DOOM engine, I don't think so.
Leftist: Force the world into slavery. Liberal: Vote the world into slavery. Libertarian: Let us alone!
Libertarian: sell the world into slavery
-- Sigs are for losers
Quake 4, which will take a trip back to the Quake 2 Strogg universe.
:)
Hopefully a sign of the return of the single player game. As much as I love mowing down 13 year olds with a prediliction towards the word "j00", a tripped-out futuristic blast-fest with a decent story sounds great
What I've noticed is that all these hot FPS games only hold my(and a few others') attention for several months at a time.
First it was me playing TFC for a while. Got bored with it.
Then I played Counterstrike for a while. Got bored with the SAME maps over again. Let's play cs_dust one more time!
Then I played Firearms. TONS of maps. Got repetetive, and not even the big selection of guns could hold my interest. Too many maps had small choke points where mortars and grenades kept exploding.
Then I played Tribes 2. It locked up after 10 minutes. Played tribes 2 again. Download weekly patch. Locks up after 10 minutes.
It'll be an interesting toss-up to see if Castle Wolfenstein or Quake 4 will be the next "Trendy" FPS.
I hope they have a carbonized version that *works* with OS X.... OK flame away like you're all from San Fran... (no dip to SF though..)
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Israel and Palestine continue to have disagreements.
Bill Gates has officially gone on record saying that open-source "promotes ulcers".
The stock market had a disappointing week.
Eric S. Raymond has published his newest essay, "The surprising connections between closed-source software and ingrown toenails".
Richard Stallman has published the definitive list distinguishing between "free", "inexpensive", "costly-but compatible with free", and "immoral" software licenses.
...and finally, a heated argument took place at a college between two students debating the merits of vi and emacs.
Not to complain, as I personally think the Quake series kick some serious ass, but am I the only one that recalls Id saying that Q3 was going to be the last in the series, and that they were going on to work on Wolfenstein?
**AA: a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes
I think it's great that raven are dev'ing q4. They've built themselves a reputation for fine games over the last couple of years but tbh they've really got their work cut out for them on this one. I'm damned suprised that Q4 follows on from q2 and not q1. I was betting on a continuation of quake1 for a long time; I never felt that Quake2 single player worked. It will be interesting to see what it runs like on a good rig as they stand at the moment, with the news that doom3 will run at about 30fps on a geforce 3 I'm wondering how much Raven will use q3's landscaping features that were introduced with q3ta; Damn, I really wanted a continuation of quake. Ah well can't have everything. as John Carmack said a while ago: "There will be no quake4". laterz
-nemof
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."
No text.
What I'm looking foward to is the story!
I'm a repairman in an imperfect world.
Like Quake3 wasn't super boring...
Like Quake2 wasn't boring...
Quake series doesn't have a monopoly on eye candy anymore...
so i cease to give a shit.
It has been like that since Quake (yes, the first one) that ID stopped producing quality games and started concentrating on engine technology and Raven Software produced high quality games utilizing the engines from ID.
Hexen II and Heretic II both utilized engines from ID and kicked some major arse. Now being give the Doom3 tech, they're going to create Quake4 and I think they would do it even better then ID itself. Mainly due to fact that most of the original creative talent from Quake has gone away from ID. John Romero, American McGee, etc.
I can't imagine how anyone can be truly, "tired" of the Quake genre.
There isn't any id game that wasn't worth its price tag.
I gave myself to Jesus, but now he never calls
None of these features make the game necessarely more fun.
It's time for ID to come up with something a bit more different, these games are really tired.
They make great graphic engines, but that's not what games should be about.
- sigs are for wimps.
I believe that is how his name is spelled. He is one of the major badasses at Raven software. Saw him when we went outside to have a smoke, so he was on the receiving end of our little quiz (as well as picture taking session). At this point, the only thing done for Q4 is the contract, and a few possible ideas. Thats all. They dont know how gameplay will be. They dont have the story fleshed out. They just have a piece of paper with signatures. So, speculate all you want, nothing is decided.
That being said, i think raven will do a great job with the project, judging from previous and upcoming work. Soldier of fortune 2 looks amazing, and is a lot of fun to play. They added a lot of value to the Q3 engine, and Im sure they will do the same in their own way with Q4. They plan on pretty much finishing up SOF2 before starting heavy duty work on Q4. Part of the reason for this is just to finish SOF2, and another reason is to let the Doom3 tech get a bit more mature before they start tweaking it for their own purposes.
one more quick thing.. the footage used to show off the work on the doom3 engine... amazing... and chilling. I cant say how Doom3 will turn out in the end, but I can say that it has all the potential that the original did, as far as edge of your seat action goes. Add to that interaction you never dreamed of with the old doom, some nice AI (understatement) and you have a real potential winner again.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!