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AMD To Close Plants, Lay off 2300, Lose Gateway
cdrudge writes: "According to this article on CNN, AMD will be closing 2 plants in Austin, TX and also their operations in Penang, Malaysia due to slack demand. 2300 jobs will be cut in the process. The same article mentions Gateway dropping it's 'Select' line of computers. Their 'Select' line of computers were Gateway's only AMD-based systems. A Gateway spokesperson said 'We're consolidating all of our offering behind Intel, which was the biggest part of our mix already.'"
This really affects the chip market. Intel will become even more dominant (!). Anyone see a MS-style monopoly down the road?
They can still enter the 'heating componment' market.
Je t'aime Stéphanie
And after reading about the lackluster performance of the new P4 2Ghz this really isn't cool. I hope AMD can stick this one out and get on top.
Intel might be winning the chip wars here -- then again the G5 is comming out in January, and that should rock a few worlds :)
(or you could buy yourself a giant 106 processor Sun box instead...)
Beware the Whyte Wolf.
With a gun barrel between your teeth, you speak only in vowels...
I am an avid fan of everything-AMD, thus this announcement is very saddening to me. I really hope that AMD is able to pull things around, I enjoy being able to build new (and powerful) machines for family and friends for less than $400 in some cases.
Here's a quote that stands out in the article:
Separately, embattled PC maker Gateway (GTW: down $0.10 to $6.07, Research, Estimates) said Tuesday it will phase out all of its systems based on AMD processors as part of its broader cost-cutting efforts.
It's cheaper for them to just source Intel CPU's and motherboards than to run two product lines, basically. I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it. For once, Intel is a cheaper decision.
What's your damage, Heather?
Is there any company thats doing good?
Exodus is supposedly going to file bankrupcy this week sometime. Better let Taco know he needs to find a new place to host this shit.
Yes, my girlfriend is a BitchX
That brings it up to what? 30,000 or so lost jobs over the last couple of weeks? Definitely not very encouraging.
Though on another note, it's very disappointing to see Gateway abandon AMD in favor of Intel. Considering that the AMD processors have a tendency to 'whoop the crap' out of comparable Intel chips (when you factor in the cost, especially) it seems that AMD would've been more logical as a "More bang for the buck" system.
Would anyone like to guess what sort of 'Incentive' was offered by Intel?
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
However, the line about Intel "aggressively pricing" their P4's is just so much CNN tripe. A quick look at Sharkey's Extreme Weekly CPU prices shows this to be BS.
(hint: top of the line AMD - 100 bucks, Intel -- 500 bucks)
- Cheers
- RLJ
'We're consolidating all of our offering behind Intel, which was the biggest part of our mix already.'
So, because consumer spending is down, Gateway is discontinuing its' discount line of computers. Because consumers want to buy more expensive computers when the economy is in trouble.
I must be missing something.
While the price war has left scars on each company, AMD's wounds have been more severe than its larger, deep-pocketed rival.
Now is the time for Intel to use all of its' financial muscle to crush AMD once and for all. This is capitalism. If Intel can continue bleeding longer by slashing prices below manufacturer cost, AMD will eventually run out of money. Once the economy picks back up, Intel will look out on the sunny pasture of monopoly, where it can play in peace with Microsoft now that the U.S. government has said "OK" to monopolies.
My advice: buy Intel stock.
ZDNet also has the scoop.
Damn short post filter won't let me post so I'm making you read this pointless sentence.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I just picked up a combo SIS 735+1.4TB+256MB DDR ram for $225!
This is only a bump for AMD. If AMD is on track with their roadmaps for their Clawhammer/SledgeHammer products, then they are able to make Intel sweat again.
Their current platform is pretty good and holds well against the Pentium 4.
However, they do need to convince the corporate market that their processors are worthwhile aside from being fast. Someone at AMD marketing needs a bigger budget...
wow, that really fucking sucks.
damn recession...
just "1300" reductions in job. That place employs tons of people.
At least that's what the local newspapers say.
Disclaimer : I'm from penang. But I'm not in penang.
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
Yes, I heard AMD was going to close 2 fabs, and take a $100 million charge against earnings. I also heard it'd save $125 million a year doing it. Getting your money back in ten months isn't a bad thing.
As for Gateway, most of the people who buy them are the ones who are charmed by the sexy "Intel Inside" logo. Those of us who know better don't buy from Gateway anyway.
There are many reasons that AMD chips are better than those of Intel.
#1- I have had better experience overclocking them
#2- They are much cheaper
Just to name a few in order to say that AMD won't be screwed in because of this.
Yes, the layoffs are bad news, but hey, this is a time where the economy is in a recession. Hang in there; you'll be called back soon enough.
PayPal $$ if you sign up for free offers (eBay, cred cards, e
- rlj
With the AThlon/TBird line kicking ass (and taking names) all over the P4 I hope sheer market size (Intel) doesnt survive over sheer engineering acumen (AMD).
;-)
Hopefully AMD will survive this, and so will the rest of us. I have friends from school who work(ed) at the Austin plant - I'll have to check up on them.
I'm gonna super-glue my ass to the chair in my office, just in case this happens to me
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
There's not much unexpected here.
The plants being closed were mainly used for foundry business. AMD does not want to be a foundry: the TSMC's of the world do that much better, and AMD wants to focus on their core competencies: processors and flash. The foundry business is almost accidental. It generally comes from AMD spinoffs designing communications and analog IC's who were transitioning to traditional foundries. Now they'll just have to transition faster.
The Gateway move was also not unexpected. Gateway is in lots of trouble. They want their big friends (Intel) to help them out, and so they are demonstrating their loyalty to their big friends.
Bryan
fucked anyway. They have been losing boatloads of money on the slumping demand for computers. While AMD can hopefully shore itself up and keep forging ahead, I can't help but suspecting that Gateway is going to the happy tech company hunting grounds in the sky pretty soon. :)
beware the jabberwock, my son! the jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
I now have two Athlon systems that I've purchased this year. Guess I'll have to do my part to increase consumer again and get another one for DNETC crunching. That's all my last one is doing.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
AMD clawed its way up on the merits of its products and zero OEM arrangements. In some ways, not having OEM arrangements is good, since computer manufacturers bully their suppliers down to razor thin margins. NVidia's increasing support for AMD should push things along in the end-user/gaming market, and the new multi-processor chipsets are helping AMD crack a market they've hardly touched - the server market.
The plants they are closing are their oldest plants, and coincide with a reduction in output that has been seen throughout the sector. It is even possible that it was becoming increasing difficult to find current products that these fabs were capable of producing.
This isn't the end of AMD, it just means they won't be posting earnings of 50 cents a share each quarter for a while. Intel's feeling the same crunch, and AMD's still got some decent cash reserves.
Seen any BadMarketing lately?
I am truly disappointed in Gateway dropping AMD chips. It seems they enjoy bending over and taking it in the ass for Intel and help promote Intel's practices overseas, like forcing motherboard makers not to make boards that support AMD chips.
Moving at the speed of government.
Our company tried to buy 200 Athlon based systems from Gateway to replace our four year old Pentium Pro machines. They refused to deal at all with us. We couldn't get a configuration we wanted, even though it was clearly possible. They wouldn't give us an extended warranty or upgrade coupons.
Basically, they told us that "businesses don't want AMD, so we won't sell them to you."
I think this announcement relates somewhat to the post yesterday about the Rio Mp3 player being dropped. Sometimes the people who are the most "innovative" or are able to boast a "superior product" aren't the most popular, mostly because of when they entered the market arena. Intel has made a name for itself in the consumer market, and it would take a HUGE mistake (even bigger than a 20-stage P4 pipeline or Rambus agreement) to destroy their market segment share in the consumer world.
But aside from that, I hope that the posts here don't flame back and forth about AMD vs. Intel, and who is better/worse. The fact is, which should be really focused on, 2,300 people don't have a job now. That really sucks. So everyone who has a job somewhere, really thank your stars that you haven't become a statistic of a sagging economy.
Sell computers for my job (in addition to being a full time CS student). I talked to the AMD rep who comes to our store. He had threemajor points:
One: no new processors from AMD anytime soon. Just renaming the processors and removing mention of the Athlon name (AMD 1600 for the 1.2 GHz, AMD 2100 etc).
Two: They are making a killing in the corporate market.
Three: There next big focus area is the laptop market. This will be the only place with "new" AMD processors. Most likely people will see more 1.0 GHz+ AMD based laptop systems soon.
Casual Games/Downloads
I don't see that there is much to worry about here. I'd be more concerned if AMD wasn't laying-off people. As it is, I think people have enough computer power for the time being. How many MHz does the average person/business really need?
There are always going to be adolescents out there who will buy the latest/greatest hardware just for the sake of it(and god bless 'em--they get fleeced and absorb research costs while we level-headed folks get affordable technology); but real people have enough computers right now.
If you have a problem with my views, REPLY, don't moderate!
Yet another crippling bombshell hit th beleaguered *BSD community when last month IDC confirmed that *BSD counts for less than a mere fraction of 1 percent of ll servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in th recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick nd its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
*BSD is dying
I'd be curious to see how many AMD systems were purchased from Gateway over Intel Systems.
I'd also like to see how many Dell/Micron/other systems in the same price range were sold over the same time period.
Don't be so quick to automatically assume like a jackoff that Intel is behind this. If you're a major vendor like Gateway and people aren't buying your $999 AMD boxes, but instead are buying Dell/Micron/other $999 Intel boxes and are outselling your AMD boxes 2:1(high end 4:1), would you waste money and capital trying to push AMD boxes?
Realize that I have no data to back up my ratios, it's just hypothetical until data is shown to prove otherwise, but realize this...people refuse to buy an unknown. I can't remember how many times I've seen people buy Sony TV's because("it's a Sony, it's the best") whereas a Samsung or Phillips TV might look better and cost less, but people just assume and don't even look at them.
The fact they offered AMD systems was about the only thing that differentiated their hardware from Dell, whom Gateway (stores aside) is merely a poor copy of.
;)
It would be nice if they actually sold stuff out of the stores, too, even if not full systems. There's a lot of space at the one near me which could actually be used to make money. Scary concept, I know...
At least Gateway has a better accessory store (NECX) - mostly because they bought that rather than made one themselves.
So is Intel making REALLY good deals to major manufacturers? AMDs are obviously the price/performance leader right now, so the only reason I could see a failing PC maker switching to the more expensive processor is if they aren't really more expensive. Or possibly the name game is coming into play here. Gateway is better consumers want PCs with a higher GHz value and will be willing to pay for a higher price.
No matter what the reason, bad move Gateway.
Although I must take the time to thank Gateway. Over the years they have provided my relatives with enough tech support to keep them from calling me. Hell, they spent 3 hours on the phone with my mom while she installed a new HD she bought at the local computer store, and her Gateway machine wasn't even under warranty anymore. Gee, ya think that could be part of the reason they're having trouble now?
I think they canned their website. I can't get to amd.com as of right now. Too bad, I liked their processors.
This might be a little off-topic, but as far as I see it, the problem with Gateway not being able to support a line of computers that does sell that many, is the support cost behind it. You need AMD-knowledgeable tech support, different MoBos, different assemblies, etc.
Dell, IBM, etc. all have the same problem. And it all seems to be related to the fact that the support costs for a low-margin, low-sales product line is too high. So why are the costs so high? From my experience, it's customer support. Too many people don't know how to use a computer and call (harass) the computer companies tech-support for the most minor of issues.
So I was thinking... let's turn it around. Create a computer company for smart people. Do not offer tech support. Do not offer customer service (outside of basic order processing) Just assemble and ship the product. If you don't know how to use it, don't buy it from us. A side benefit of this idea would be that "hard-core" computer geeks can stop wandering from site to site to build their computers. Since there's little over-head to cover, prices will stay cheap.
The same idea can be applied to ISPs. The major cost of an ISP is the customer support staff to go along with it. I'm sure there's a LOT of people out there that would gladly save 10%-25% of their Internet fee in exchange for having no customer support (since most people-in-the-know don't use it anyway).
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
I will continue to purchase and recommend AMD products for my customers. Just because Gateway is leaving them behind doesn't mean the rest of the world should too. Buy what you think is best, and what you can trust.
-Mark
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
I have stock in AMD.
Somehow I'm not surprised. Gateway has been consistently using AMD as a bargaining chip with Intel. They have now twice adopted AMD lines and dropped them when they thought they could get a better deal from Intel.
I suspect that AMD will pull through this, and most likely will re-activate the foundries when they need more capacity, though that might take some time as they still haven't reached 100% at Dresden yet and they're already transitioning to 0.13 micron process.
What does confuse me is why AMD consistently adopts such low selling prices. I think that people would still buy their processors even if they tacked on a minimum of $50 on the high end, if not even $100. A full base system based on AMD costs $400 these days and for that you can't even get a high end P4.
Sometimes the market economy and technology adoption just confuses me. I mean we've had Firewire (IEEE 1394) for almost a decade and it's only just now catching on, and even now with great resistance... go figure.
So who is left that is actually producing consumer desktops built around AMD??
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
Everytime I look up their stock report online, there's an accompanying stock analyst report saying how much their stock is undervalued. With education sales, excitement over the new iBooks, and 10.1 finally making OS X an OS that is stable AND resposnive, I expect apple to continue to be profitable through the 4 quarter.
And what apple has that a lot of companies do not have is an energized user base. How many people are really that excited about XP? How about a new Dell computer? These things just don't get people going like in the mac community. We're very enthusiastic about apple products and where they are going.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Profit rules this world, not just in America. Terrorism is run on many levels....take the Mafia, for one example...Drug Lords for another, record companies, MS. etc.
Moving at the speed of government.
I'd heard that they pulled it off the market when they found out that the terrorists had trained with it. Can you verify?
science is a religion
It never ceases to amaze me, the utter shit that PC manufacturers sell to people. Compaq, Dell, Gateway, etc., sell absolute complete shit. They're always trying to make it difficult to upgrade, or they're fucking up Windows and making it incompatible with Office(yes, Compaq did this once... talk about an oversight), or combining good CPUs with shit for ram etc...
If you ask me, the only way to go when purchasing a PC is to buy the parts you want and put it together yourself. I have never seen an off-the-shelf PC that was something I would want to use.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Intel has AMD by the balls. Give it up already.
Don't get me wrong... I love amd. I can still remember my first athlon... but sadly... I now run Intel. Why??? Because at the time... intel was the only one to offer dual processors. Yeah amd is cheaper... but its not helping. Think about this in economic terms, say amd sells 100 processors at $100, and Intel sells 50 processors at $200... who wins? Yeah they may gross the same money (ignoring expenses,etc)but who can play this game longer? Its not AMD. AMD makes an excellent product, and its a shame that being better than intel is leading them to collapse. But this is what happens... look at netscape vs microsoft in the browser wars. Same thing. "He who has the most pairs of boxers can go the longest without doing laundry". Sorry AMD.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
The AMD chips get so darn hot, gateway would need to build a bigger box(more$$), get a higher quality pwrspl(more$$).
FTR I own an AMD 1.4 and my midtower can't circulate enough air, even with a Dragon Orb 3.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This will kill their rep with the analysts. At least for a while. Thinking about buying ebay stock and taking AMD as a tax loss. If they start to improve then I might buy them again. Ebay is great. It's pretty much a monopoly and unlike MS increasing sales.
Flash market sucks. CPU price war is killing them. Their business isn't going to be good for a while. Gamers and overclockers won't make AMD's revenue grow.
It's become ovbious to me with this story and others like it that the only way to get a PC that I really can have confidence in and rely upon is to build my own from the ground up. I know how to do this once I have all the parts in front of me, but I'm really out of the loop when it comes to where to get those parts. Anyone who has any suggestions, please submit a list of every component a standard PC would need and where it could be purchased, I'm sure many slashdotters could use it. Thanks in advance!
~ now you know
I read that Tom's article and it got me thinking (I use a Athlon TBird 1Ghz). It's aloways been hot. When it's on for long periods of time, the office gets hot, when I run a spare-cycle slurper it stays REALLY hot. I've never actually had a problem I could trace back specifically to heat, but it's always been an issue with this CPU. I bought an really fast fan for it, and it was WAY too noisy. The generic one should be could enough. At the very least, I'd like to know that the CPU would protect itself (Intel's either shutdown or slowdown, see the recent Tom's Hardware article about overheating Intel vs. AMD). Could this be part of Gateway's decision? Are these chips just too hard to cool? When you really think about it, the TBirds have an enormous amount of heat disapating from a very small area. Seems like a broken design. At least from a longevity point of view.
Intel may have them by the balls, but price/performance-wise, AMD has their cock shoved up Intel's ass and Intel is moaning in ecstasy!
I always thought the Intel Inside sticker was a warning label.
One thing you gotta say about BSD, it makes for a hell of a good source of Linux code!
I remember when Bush kept talking about our economy being on the path to a recession several months ago. It sent chills down my spine everytime he said it. What kept the boom economy of the 90's going was what Alan Greenspan called "Irrational Exuberance" - people where so confident in the economy that they invested more than any economic indicator would have shown.
...
But now, if we start talking about out economy in a negative manner, we're settings us up for "Irrational Fear," where people think the economy is worse than it really is and pull lots of money out. Just the word recession can get stock holders antsy.
One of the main reasons that several business are now having problems is that a lot of people are holding onto more of their money instead of spending it and putting these people to work. Recession -> hold onto money -> more job cuts -> more recession -> hold onto more money ->
I don't have to remind programmers what happens to their apps when they get stuck in infinite loops...
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
My girlfriend bought a computer recently, and the Gateway salesman steered her away from AMD, because "it's a dead end technology." I started spitting tacks when I heard that.
With an attitude like that, it's no wonder they didn't sell any.
AMD needs demand...
Apple needs supply...
I'm thinking Apple will purchase the PowerPC design and farm it out to AMD.. makes perfect sense.
I'm not sure about their Malaysian fab, but the one in Austin was only producing Durons at the end, with all of the Thunderbirds coming out of their new Dresden, Germany fab. Dresden was built to encorporate copper interconnects into the chip, and Austin was never upgraded.
Last I heard Dresden wasn't anywhere near capacity, so I guess that it's not too surprising that they would move production over there with their future lines.
I have had my fill of corporate cynicism in recent weeks. For once, I wish owners of corporations would pick a year (this year, maybe?) to not make a profit. Year after year, in all industries, the fruits of innovation and automation flow to the investor class. The flow appears to only go in one direction, for a slight recession and a single day of terrorism have spawned an outbreak of Layoff-itis. People everywhere are being layed off--an action with permanent results--in response to temporary conditions, all to maintain the level of profit that the Leech Class has grown accustomed to.
Now AMD joins the long list of companies perpetrating vast economic terrorism against people whose only crime is filling out a job application and working diligently day after day. Who will feed these 2,300 families and the ~100,000 families who were likewise fucked by the airline industry? Who will comfort the children whose parents commit suicide in desperation?
These are the people who make our laws, fill our heads with memes designed to guarantee permanently increasing profits, poison our water, and drag us into international conflict. Like the gods, they kill us for their sport. Have no sympathy for them--sell off all your stock and kiss those motherfuckers goodbye.
Jesus of Nazareth said something once that has perhaps never been more true: Money is the root of all evil.
"What is the sound of one belly slapping?"
Things they lack, free press , free speech, free beer... Hardly any Linux developers there! Seems to be a few years behind the US, no PHP people, few Perl developers. They are still on the MSCE wagon train and taking VB classes.
I am impressed with Putrajaya though, 10 gigabit fiber to the home and wireless access points all over town ! Too bad there is no place to eat there though.. Too far from KL also, hard to get people to work in the MSC .
I am moving there in a few months & getting married to a girl I met on CU-SeeMe :) Wish me luck.
Believe it or not, to reach people on the street, they need marketing (gosh!) without that WOW factor with the AMD name behind it, they can kiss theyre ass goodbye as Intel has the marketing.
I remember the days when my parents said "But Im waiting for the new Athlon as I hear its better than the Intel offering" because of the commercials.
With AMD changing theyre marketing to using theyre new Gigahertz and the Athlon XP (which may help, i dunno) they will loost to the men in the pink rabbit suits.
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
Actually it was "The love of money is the root of all evil." But the theme is the same.
I swear by MacOS X. Although I use to swear *at* MacOS 9...
Is that AMD has continued to gain market share, but in a declining market where Intel is engaging in price wars.
So basically, AMD is winning the chip market battle, but fewer chips are being bought and to get the return, they have to drop the price even lower than usual, as Intel isn't overcharging as much as they usually do.
None of this is likely to change before January 2002.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
nope, the terrorists trained on real flight sims which MS made the software for. I heard they changed Flight Sim 2K so that you could no longer fly into the WTC
this is what I heard anyway, on the news
It'd be nice if AMD's loss could be Transmeta's gain. Loss of the highest power using x86 CPU with the gain of the lowest power using one would be a good thing for us poor souls in blackout prone California. Too bad people are still staying behind that lumbering behemoth that is Intel, instead.
I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it.
I think it's less "cheaper" (though they'll tell investors that... and in some intangible way, they might be right) than it is "safer".
One: Intel is a brand name everybody knows from the catchy TV ads. We know the Bunnymen, we know Blue Man Group. They make us laugh and give us warm fuzzies about Intel.
(Side rant: this points up that companies that do not advertise, cannot displace a well-known, dominant player. The mass market will not buy your product if they've never heard of you. It's practically a law of nature. I've never seen an AMD ad on network TV... could that just possibly start to explain why consumers don't care about them?)
Two: AMD is literally a bigger risk physically. I think by now we've all seen the videos of AMD chips turning themselves into slag when they lose cooling. Nobody wants to be the PC maker getting sued because their PC caused a fire that did $300,000 worth of damage to some CTO's house in Ritztown. Even less do they want to the PC maker whose halted-and-caught-fire box burns down some working-poor family's two-room cottage, breaking them financially. Until AMD does something about their (lack of) resistance to cooling failure, I sure wouldn't put it in a computer I built for my family and I probably wouldn't run it myself either. Given the videos I'm surprised UL approved their chips (or did they?)
-- Old Man Kensey
Why? Because people like to identify themselves with status whenever they get the chance. They may not be able to buy a Mercedes, but at least they can swing a PIV. When there are only two CPU companies, and one is much cheaper than the other, then people in a consumeristic society are going to equate the older, more expensive brand with higher status, and the cheaper one with lower status (like Mercedes versus Hyundai or something). These people don't want to hear that there might be something faster than a PIV. As long as they're with the majority/most popular thing, they're satisfied.
Just as people are buying $60,000 SUVs only because other people on the block are buying big stupid SUVs, people are listening to that pot-head Dell ad kid and buying overpriced Intel PCs. For the same reasons that every car company in the world (Ferrari next?) is dying to come out with the latest luxo-SUV (you should see the profit margins), PC companies are dying to get the old cpu monopoly era computer prices back.
Mo Money is the real reason.
List of needed components
Case
Power Supply
CPU
Motherboard
RAM
Floppy or LS-120
DVD/DVD-R/CD-RW, Pick your optical poison
Hard Drives
Sound Card
Modem
Network Card
Zip Drive/Other Removable Rewriteable Media
Don't forget to use wonderful tools like http://pricewatch.com or http://computershopper.com. Watch out for the deals that are too good to be true... though many of the places on either of those sites are obviously operating on razor thin margins, they do make PC building really really cheap.
Now given that list I would purchase a KT266A system or maybe wait for the nForce with a Palmino based Athlon. I would purchase a DVD/CD-RW combo and also another DVD drive, as I always support being able to make disk to disk copies. The Audigy would be a good card if you don't get the nForce based motherboard. DDR RAM is the way to go, it's also probably best to purchase that directly from http://crucial.com. Get yourself the Seagate Barracuda IV's for a quiet and relatively high performing IDE drives with big capacity... For video cards get either the Radeon 8500 or GeForce3 depending on how much you care. Don't forget to get a cool aluminum case like the Lian-Li PC-60 for show value...
That should be everything you need unless you want to go dual processor, which is always a good option.
He's Ask Maxwell's lover. http://www.microsoft.com/PressPass/features/1999/1 2-16maxwell.asp
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
It's cheaper because they only have one set of incompatibilities to deal with. Anyone who has built a computer before knows that lots of different types of hardware have problems playing nicely together. If they stick to intel CPU's, then the only have to deal with intel compatible mobos, and lower costs of Developing a whole computer that works every time. Also, they spend less supported the customer base. The don't have to spend more training there technical support and repair technicians.
The top of the line AMD is a 1.4ghz T-bird on a 266mhz FSB. Which, you are right, is priced at ~100. (Marketing: apple [the fruit])
The top of the line Intel is a 2.0ghz on a 400mhz FSB. And actually the price is $570. (Marketing: orange)
You are right, the top of the line is ~$500, but Intel's top of the line carries larger numbers.
Of course, MHZ isn't an acurate scale of performance or power, but it is the scale looked at by home and business consumers.
To see where the price war is you need to look at the Pentium 4 1.4ghz (400mhz FSB). That little cpu is priced at $114. A very (price wise) competitive product. (Marketing: apple [the fruit])
It comes down to comparing apples with oranges, really. It is a nice way to try to prove a point, but still wrong.
Just remember, AMD was proud to use a mhz rating to describe its chips back when it held the highest.
Finally, the public can never be made aware of how little mhz has to do with actual performance because it already realize mhz isn't entirely accurate, it just isn't willing to invest the time and effort to investigate actual performace data.
I can see it now.
Circuit City Rep.: "Can I help you?"
Customer: "Yes, what does this mean: AMD Athlon 3.921k D.ALU"
Circuit City Rep.: "Derstern Arth.. Er, that's the number of additions it can do a minute."
Customer: "But it's cheaper than this Intel Pentium 4 2.0ghz. Something doesn't seem right, this must be a better computer. My old computer is only a 300mhz, what does that mean?"
Circuit City Rep.: "Well 2.0ghz is 2000mhz."
Customer: "I'll take the pentium."
The List of Grievances with Slashdot.
<advert solicited="no" paid="no"> Having recently had an e-mail problem (qmail had died in a partial and annoying way), we had to utilize their support panel. The problem was literally fixed within 15 minutes. </advert>
<rant>My general experience with phone tech support from PC manufacturers and ISPs is that 15 minutes is about how long it takes to talk to a person - and then, that person is going to go through a script that covers all the common problems that (l)users have. Yesterday's dilbert was beautiful about this. Oh yeah, and talking to a real human being who will do anything about a problem is usually an hour-plus endeavour. </rant>
With every boxed CPU is a set of instructions. Read the instructions before installing the CPU. There is only one way to do it.
Actually, the theme is totally and completely different. And profound. Learn the difference, and Be Enlightened.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
...and multi-processor mother boards so that geeks like me will buy twice as many processors. That should increase sales, eh?
AMD chips cost less, and that is pretty simple to discover.
AMD systems fail more than Intel systems; I'm sure this played a roll in Gateway's decision.
AMD systems do not garner the same system costs that Intel systems can get.
If Gateway can make more money selling Intel systems, then they'll sell Intel systems. Plain and simple. The only way AMD can combat this is to make a better quality product, maintain the current price differences, and be able to give flawless manufacturing and innovation support.
In essence they have a real battle on their hands. Intel has a leg up on almost every aspect of the business.
It's a business decision so don't take it personally!
We should switch schools then. Coke came in 2 years ago (almost to the day... I remember, sadly enough) and replaced all the good Pepsi machines with their inferior products.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
"AMD to Close Pants, Lay --" at this point I did a double-take and realized my error, but still, it was amusing.
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
- Buy a fan that is approved for your processor.
- Read the instructions related to fans that come with the motherboard. I.E. don't put it on backwards
- Don't forget to plug it in.
Secondly, I've used Athlons and Durons for over a year and a half. I've built over 100 systems for customers based on these processors and AMD and VIA -based motherboards. I've never had a problem with any of the CPU's or motherboards that took any more effort to fix than checking the manufacturer's website for driver fixes. In all cases the driver fix was already available. I have only ever had 1 problem using Linux. That problem was not chipset related but really a problem with the Linux kernel/drivers relating to the built-in Promise IDE "RAID" controller on a VIA board and I have. Before I could submit the kernel OOPS report there was already an Alan Cox patch available.I agree that the cooling situtation should be addressed but it really only pertains to situations where the computer undergoes vibration (such as UPS shipping) that sometimes will knock cards out of slots and cables out of connectors. In all the machines that I have built, I have yet to have one die a heat-death.
You cannot honestly knock the AMD-based systems on their technical merits.
Two points:
1) Bush's point was that keeping federal taxes at record levels, higher than during World War 2, was risking recession. Which was (and still is) true. The Democrats amplified it in the news by relentlessly pounding Bush over it, which was hypocritical as hell because:
2) Remember the '92 Clinton/Gore campaign mantra about the "WORST ECONOMY IN 50 YEARS!"? Which besides being irresponsible was also a blatent lie, given the mess of the Carter Administration twelve years before.
Other than that, yup, psychology is a bitch, and I hope we don't get stuck in that negative feedback loop. It'd be nice if Bush used his current popularity to push thru both corporate welfare cuts and tax cuts, maybe even radical tax simplification (Flat Tax), but it's not likely to happen.
Do AMD processors make a small mushroom cloud when you try to run them without a heatsink? Yes.
Moral of the story: Use a heat sink. Duh.
Tom's review was about as impressive as Consumer's Digest reporting that if you order a new Ford Focus without a radiator, the engine might explode. '
Common sense, people. Sheesh...
In those recent Gateway TV commercial a cow has
been telling the Gateway CEO how to run his business.
I mean, if you guys didn't waste more time playing games, we'd still be able to buy AMD. Bastards.
/joke
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
Apart from this, your sig makes it clear you are a complete idiot.
One of the news reports mentioned that MS Flight Simulator was found installed on the computers some of them were using, and apparently some neighbors had seen them playing the game. Some UK retailers are supposed to have taken it off the shelves over there, and MS is working on an optional patch for the current version that removes the WTC buildings that collapsed, and is reworking the new version for the same reason (and delaying release by approximately the amount of time this should take).
The intense desire of /.rs and other consumers to buy AMD chips much more cheaply than they can produce them is why they're losing money, laying off and closing fabs.
If you AMD fans were really loyal to AMD, based on the belief that it really has "truly superior technology" to that of Intel, you should be willing to pay the same OR MORE for these much better products.
What? You don't want to pay even the same as you would for Intel? (You DO REALLY believe AMD CPUS are better, not just cheaper, right?)
Well, now you know why AMD is discounting themselves to death.
Feel proud when they go down, you did your bit.
And it's not the recent attack that's causing the layoffs, those were planned well in advance. The airlines were suffering horribly before, lost a fortune with the lost days and re-establishing the correct where-abouts of their planes, and are hemmoraging because of the cancellations.
AMD was doing well until the market took a dive last April. Since then, no one's been buying PC's in mass. It's not really AMD's fault they can't sell enough... people just aren't buying.
It comes down to layoffs or folding the operation together. 15% of the workforce or 100% plus the retirements of the other 85% they might be able to save. Sucks, but it's not nearly as personal as your taking it. (and yes, I've been layed off too).
Jesus didn't say that by the way, that was Timothy (or some other dead guy or God, but it's in the book of Timothy anyway - hey don't look at me like that, I didn't even know there WAS a book of timothy until I looked up the quote...). And the actual quote is the _LOVE_ of money is the root of all evils. Not money itself, just the love of.
Cheer up man, it's not that bad. And if your really a God fearing man - remember that God doesn't throw anything at you that you can't handle. (Not with a gun... that's not included... your not nuts are you?!)
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
- They can't claim AMD is not stable enough.
- They can't claim that the users don't want AMD in their systems.
- They can't claim anything negative about the pricing of AMD parts (especially if you compare with Intel).
- They can't claim they don't have enough support from AMD nor AMD are playing dirty IP games with them.
I say, screw you Gateway, you did enough stupid moves in your life, Trashing the amiga community when you we're backed up by all the loyal fans and could have had a nice platform to sell, you acted completely like hypocrites, hiring people sometimes from another country, make their live miserable about a year later, and now you're bailing on AMD after convincing people how good it is? I mean, taking computer for a religion is pathetic, I'll admit it, but acting like you are is completely un-ethical and shows who's milking you. "Gateway, building lifelong relationships" well I sincerely hope your company lives "lifelong" too, whatever that means.
I don't want to see a gateway laptop, I don't want to ever see a desktop, hell! I don't even want to see a MUG comming from your company, the hell with you, you had your chance, you messed up two times, and two major times. People will remember you when you'll see the Hammer family out and some companies making profit. AMD will never say no to buisness opportunities, even if you dropped them. Buisness is buisness... too bad, some consumers don't think like that, and it happens that some computer-literate people have more and more power over purchasing decisions, be sure I'll use mine.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Here he goes again. Look at old BSD and Linux stories and this message is mirrored for almost every non-MS operating system.
This guy seems to have a template where he just pastes an OS or product name and then inserts some random tid bits of info. Hope he's having fun.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
I found Zod!
Yeah, they also had a "minor" problem which ate my entire inbox, and they fucked up my DNS after I switched to someone else... Um, thanks, PHPWebHosting!
Become a FSF associate member before the low #s are used
computer manufacturers bully their suppliers down to razor thin margins
Well Intel has the highest margins in the Semiconductor business. In a very capital intensive business with low per unit delta procuction cost, volume is the key. Intel clearly understands this as does AMD.
The only reason I can see Gateway has dumped AMD for now is that they are hunkering down for a few quarters and hoping "replacement" business can carry them through. The replacement business is Intel as they are the ones that got sold here a 3-4 years ago. Why try and convince someone that has been happy with Intel / Gateway for 3-4 years to try something new. The whole point with a "replacement" driven business model is making the "next" purchase an easy no-brainer decision. it just means they won't be posting earnings of 50 cents a share each quarter for a while
They just announced they would make a 15 cent +- loss for the quarter.
Help fight continental drift.
Gateway's concern is margin, not price.
Look, I work at a Gateway country store. The guys that work with me pushed Athlons on anyone who walked in. Why? Because it was a superior product, and was cheaper. However, about 2 months ago some strange started to happen. First of all, the industry and Wall Street started to realize how poorly managed Gateway was (is), we started printing the price sheets for the P4 based systems on new Intel branded paper (wonder how much Gateway gets for that) and even more telling, we started building Athlons on some of the sorriest motherboards I have seen in a LONG time!! These boards just plain SUCK! Only 3 PCI slots (what serious user would buy this crap!) 1 AGP, integrated video (11MB SHARED!!! AGH!!) integrated sound, just a piece of crap. SO, we started selling P4's to serious users. Any customer worth his salt could look at the situation that Gateway put us in, and decided to just build their own Athlon system, because we no longer offered any type of benefit over custom building. So, to say the least, I am not a bit surprised by this. BTW, I wonder if Gateway gets any type of incentive from Intel for this move??
While I agree it warrants some exploration, the apparent slashdot-wide point of view that this is a result of the "evil Intel monopoly" seems to ignore a few basic business realities.
Supporting multiple cpu platforms *costs money*. Think about the different elements you need to support:
-different motherboards
-different driver sets
-different power supplies
-different heatsinks/fans
-different memory types and configurations
-different system design specs and reference platforms
-different product qualifications, including software
I'm sure we can all think of many many more.
When you are talking about a larger company like Gateway (as opposed to your local chop-shop), these problems are REAL, and are not free to solve. They probably stand to save a good deal of money by cost-cutting in these areas.
The way Gateway sees it, they are selling Intel systems and making a profit on them. Even though AMD processors are cheaper, they don't bring in more revenue, hence the decision to trim the additional overhead.
My theory is that Intel made none of your claimed hidden monopolistic dealings, and that Gateway chose to drop AMD for cost reasons, just like the article suggests.
I think the slashdot readership needs to weigh in a little sanity-check before modding up conspiracy theory posts to +5.
-T-
Sanders, the AMD CEO, is so hungry to take market share from Intel that he is selling AMDs CPUs for lower than AMD should be.
Its highly possible considering (1) the tech downturn and (2) the fact that Intel has such a lock on the corporate market, that AMDs low as you can go pricing scheme is only hurting AMD.
U rool. I stand in awe of your l337 aol-ish grammar. Your tender age doesn't do justice to your IQ.
More, please.
AMD is closing two old 0.7 micron 6 inch wafer fabs that they've been trying to ditch for a long time.
Nothing to do with Microprocessors or newer flash technology is affected.
Sheesh. Get your facts straight. DOn't play into Intel's hands by spreading disaster rumors.
"..skilled and creative.." people are going to
be fired...YAY, now the bigwigs can finally hire their favorite catamite.
In my own experience: I have broken amd processors
with a little forgivable handling. On the other
hand, the heat thing is a big bugaboo. Buy some
quality cooling components(a two fan job) and amd
stays very cool.
AMD also, in my opinion, is the faster chip.
I have run the duron and celeron processors
back to back in a production environment and
the duron smokes the intel chip.
Go ahead, mod me down. I've got plenty of karma points to burn.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Aside an Intel 386-20MHz PC back in 89(gasp a Northgate; the case still remains in use, running an AMD K6 since past several years), I have always used AMD chips..... it all began with K5, then on to K6, K6-2, K6-III, Slot A Athlon, Slot A TB Athlon, and most recently Socket A 266FSB Athlon. Every single of these CPUs are still up and running and being used either by myself or my relatives around the world....
Shameless self promotion aside, I think AMD, like rest of the tech sector, has been feeling the pain. Hence why the business restructuring. I think they're just hunkering down so to be able to focus better on their bread and butter products. I don't think, given the overall slowness in corp buying, AMD is yet threatened directly by Intel. BTW, remember, a lot of dot-gone equipment is floating about the market a siginificantly low prices as well. I think AMD CPUs still remain darlings for the DIY masses: most of us.
SIG ALERT
the price of the CPU is irrelevant next to the cost of supporting any system that uses a VIA chipset. Gateway's AMD systems are not competitive anyway--they never used DDR, and MicronPC kills them on price.
AMD is hurtin' fer certain, and you can tell just by looking at their prices-- they charge $100 for a 1.4GHz Athlon because they can't sell if for more in this market next to Intel's GHz onslaught. Hell, a Celeron 1.1GHz costs the same! If you don't think that GHz sells, AMD just confirmed it.
Wait until they release earnings (losses) for this quarter. They may have held onto market share (doubtful) but at a terrible price. On the other hand, Intel is keeping their ASPs high, but they must be paying $ out the ass for marketing--not just their own, but their "partners'" as well. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a mailing from Gateway that was all Intel, and wondered who paid for the mailing. Ditto on those Sunday inserts from BestBuy and CompUSA that are all Intel, even though they have AMD systems on the shelves. Then there are incentives paid to sales staffs to push a specific product or line.
Sooner or later, this has to show up on Intel's bottom line, but they are masters at dressing the numbers, and offsetting operating expenses in their core area with stock sales or changes in depreciation.
---
If you want to consider a real nightmare scenario for AMD, perhaps IBM, MicronPC, Tiny (UK) and other major OEMs who have dumped AMD in the past five months have taken a look at the upcoming Intel "Northwood" P-4 (.13-micron process die-shrink, 512kb L2 cache, support for 533MHz FSB) and compared it to the long-delayed Palomino and realized that the P-4 is about to beat AMD's brains out.
Or not.
---
Now I live in an intel family. At one time, half of my family was employed there, and they have taken care of us. Intel is one of those companies, like ibm, that will never die. It is going to be with us until the big asteroid slams into earth, and only cockroaches and cowboyneal will survive. Right now, intel has a surplus of money stored away for "a rainy day" that could buy AMD 8 times over. With AMD laying off this many people and losing their Gateway contract, partially because of the recent fall in the US stock market, AMD and alot of companies are going to to have a problem bouncing back like they have been able to do in the past. AMD will always be around, and there will always be loyal customers, but there is no way they could be "on top" of intel.
But then corporate america is stupid for thinking that an AMD purchase today ties one to an AMD purchase tomorrow. It's not like that. If they are concerned with the fact that intel is more likely to come out with new stuff than AMD what stinking difference does that make to the purchase they make today of comparable CPU's? CPU's don't get upgraded like software does. They just get thrown out and you purchase another, typically with a new motherboard too since you probably need it to handle a new chip if it's been more than a year or so since your last purchase - so motherboard/cpu compatability for the future isn't an issue either. If you replace your cpu/motherboard with a new intel one tomorrow, you still purchase it from scratch anyway whether your current setup is intel or AMD.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Companies like AMD will never learn the real secret to winning wars in this industry: better marketing. Did Microsoft win with excellent, low cost products? Did Iomega? Did AOL? does anyone? NO.
AMD needs to just suck it up and start blowing a ton of money on advertising like intel does. They need to bribe, err, encourage PC makers to advertise using AMD CPUs. They need to constantly reengineer things in senseless ways that scre consumers and make them money.
In reality, the only way AMD can last is to stop being AMD.
Yes, and if AMD goes under, you can bet that Intel, because of no comparable competition, will raise the prices on its chips --- just because it can. It will essentially pull a Microsoft.
No, actually, it's "The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."
I wonder if this has anything to do with hp buying compaq.
I have a compaq with an amd chip and my parents have a new hp with an intel chip.
Maybe that plant used to make the chips for compaq.
Do you think?
You're both right and wrong. We aren't in a recession. We're seeing the first part of the second great depression. But you're right about the economy being nothing but a shared hallucination--it is, after all, based on nothing but goodwill and optimism.
Most companies start saving whenever some authority, usually banks and "experts" start talking about recession, even if the economy is still going strong. When everybody starts to save, the recession becomes a fact. Sounds stupid? Well, it isn't. By preparing ahead of time companies make sure they won't get into real trouble and we avoid an economical *depression* (which is bad). recessions come and go every five years or so. Depressions should stay away altogether.
Let`s all remember that the Athlon was dominant in the speed arena for
quite some time in addition to being more cost effective. AMD is still
unquestionally the champion of price/performance ratio. So stick to your
designer components Intel whores, I`m satisfied with functionality not
brand name.
I think a David and Goliath analogy applys well to the relationship of
these two companys.
And screw Gateway, the first time I had a look inside my Gateway case
I realised they were selling people crap, suffice to say that it`s not
the same machine it was, except for the case.
I`ll use AMD processors until they go out of business, I hope that day
won`t come.
Rambus sucks!!! Fight the power!!!
If they don't do something to stop their stock from free fallinging ($34-$10 inside of 6 months)
they could end up getting delisted and forced to go bankrupt. If it hits $5, run for the hills.
The article is VERY similar to the CNN article. How's that for lazy journalism? Pinching a story off /. and just changing a few words, and getting paid for it by a major newspaper.
I wish people would stop saying the word recession
... the most visible occurrence of the R-word on Slashdot is your posting and the replies to it.
Guess what
Free tip to baldies: Growing a ponytail or a beard only makes you look like a bigger dork.
Buy a rug for Christ's ske and try to look normal.
AMD's processors works just fine with the same components as Intel's. Only motherboards need to be different.
that mantra brings bad luck to AMD
run quiet, no noticable spurious crashes. No way to fit it in a 1U case!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Dont' let the market's knee-jerk reaction fool you.
Fabs 14 and 15 are antiquated. They were built in 1985. They do not manufacture flash, Athlons nor Durons. They manufacture chips for a business that was sold to LSCC called Vantis. These fabs were not being used because LSCC has a 9 month inventory on hand. Now was a good time to renegotiate the contract manufacturing with LSCC and shift the responsibility to a lower cost contract fab such as TSMC. In doing so AMD cuts costs.
Also, Gateway has not been a huge AMD customer anyway.
Less than $400? New and powerful machines? I can imagine that you could be spending around $400 on components, but you must certainly be pirating the software. How could you buy components, a copy of Windows ME, and the smallest Office package and still come in under $400? There is now way, you have to be a software pirate.
I believe him. That's what I did. He could install some out-of-the-box usable Linux distribution like Corel [Corel Office included on a CD], Mandrake, or whatever other Linux distro on a CD, configure it quickly for average use for his aunt, nephew, sister etc, and voila! I, for instance, just copied an already configured installation [StarOffice in it] from my old HD to my new machine [parts, including a blank HD].
Not to pick a nit, but the actual Denis Leary quote (which is far more funny) is: "Life sucks, get a fucking helmet."
Ceci n'est pas un sig
Im more sick of the media spouting this FUD all the time as well. There was a poll in the NY Times either Monday or Tuesday that said that 6 out of 10 people polled believe that we are currently in a recession. This just isnt true. A recession is not a perception - it is measurable. To be in recession, we have to have 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth. The last quarter measured (Q2) had the slowest growth since 1992, but it was still growth in the positive. Even if Q3 demonstrates negative growth, that wont be announced until mid to late October. It will be 3 months after that that Q4 is announced. Even if Q3 and Q4 turn out to both have negative growth, not even Alan Greenspan will not be able to say we are actually in a recession until at least the end of January.
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
Sorry AMD, if you're not making it now it's not going to get any better while the Pentium prices keep falling and our gigahertz AMD CPUs start going up in smoke when the cooling fan eventually fails. :(
..but those blue guys piss me off!
Excuse me????? Score:5?????????????????
The weakening of AMD is bad. We'll find ourselves with even higher prices on Intel CPU (yes, it is possible) since the only reason the lowered their prices is because the Athlon 1.4 could reach the same perf levels as an Intel 1.7 in most instances and yet the intel was 3 times the price.
For Intel to lose the only competition they have is definitely no good for the consumer.
I follow the 2 major laws of thermodynamics : maximum entropy, minimum enthalpy.
Actually, he/she did NOT say they assumed Intel was doing something illegal, just unethical. There's a huge difference. It's not illegal to lie to your mother, but it IS unethical.