Slashdot Mirror
Thumbs Are the New Fingers for GameBoy Youth
An anonymous reader writes "Reuters is running an interesting story on how the use of gadgets such as mobile phones and GameBoys has caused a physical mutation in young people's hands. The use of the thumb is a deviation from the use of the index finger..."
So, an invention caused a DNA change? Try "adaptation", Reuters.
Of course, these are the people that won't call a suicide bomber who kills 3000 people a "terrorist".
cows don't play Nintendo - No opposible thumbs.
Error: Erection reset by beer.
Opposable thumbs are an absolute necessity for single handed operation of such gadgets, so I guess developing this feature is a step forward.
Evolution (as in "altering of physical form of whole populations of individuals due to external factors") seems much more likely to happen over a few generations. The "old school" is teaching us that evolution is happening only on course of hundeds or thousands of generations. This may not be the case actually.
Artificial breeding is another example of very fast changes in the gene pool of populations.
It is possible that the use of hand-held devices make one's own thumbs more dextrous, but that certainly doesn't cause a mutation, which is a genetic change. That would be Lamarkian inheritance of accquired characteristics. Both Slashdot and the article are using a completely incorrect term.
Except for the fact that our eyesight is going down the tubes for playing all these games. We are going to be the most versatile group of half blind geeks around. I know personally I'm only in my early 20's but have been playing games since I could pick up a controller and I'm having some problems with my hands lately. If I don't use an ergonomic keyboard I'll be in major discomfort for a few days. I've started taking Vioxx as an anti-inflammatory for my right thumb and index finger. I must be overworking these. I don't know about other geeks out there but I get scared about my hands cause these are my livelyhood and how I bring home the $$. I lose a finger or two and I'm SOL. So a message to geeks of tomorrow: Protect the digits at all costs!
"I'd always had longer hair than other boys. I was a long-haired musician before hippies came along." Willie Nelson
They're suggesting people have used thumbs so often that they are more skilled with using thumbs than index fingers. Not a mutation.
If I play a musical instrument then I don't look at my fingers anymore (either when playing the piano or guitar), does that mean that I have mutated in a musick playing monster?
I think the author mixed 'learning' with 'mutating'
--
If code was hard to write, it should be hard to read
This hardly seems to be a physical mutation- rather, just an awful lot of practice with precise movements of one's thumb due to game controllers and the like. I imagine if I used my pinky for several hours a day in a situation that required extreme dexterity from it (beyond typing, obviously) it would become my most dexterous digit. Interesting that younger people tend to use the thumbs for dialing and others tend to use the index fingers, but I think that's more closely related to how much use each digit gets than any physical "mutation".
Next thing you know we'll start seeing class action lawsuits to Nintendo and Nokia for making devices that are "mutalating" the youth of america.
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Just because somebody is dextrous with their thumb doesn't mean they are mutated... duh. News for nerds, yeah whatever.
I don't think that this is like a mutation. It's probably not able to be passed on to another generation unless Lamarck was right all along. Anyway, it's good that thumbs are getting more mobile. Still, I would doubt the scientific validity of a news release that calls this a "mutation".
I still use my index finger for lots of stuff! Ever try to pick your nose with your thumb? Butt?
What about dialing a wall mounted phone? Not with my thumb.
"Failure of Windows operating systems is extremely rare. If it happens, it is usually due to operating system file c
Some frickin' mutations! I was wondering when we'd get around to that kick ass future I always saw in movies as a kid...
Shift happens. Fire it up.
A physical mutation would mean a cancerous growth - what I think this is is people's habits being changed as to which finger (or thumb) they use.
Video Game cheats, hints a
IMHO mutation always meant something changed at gene-level. In order for that to be true, we'd need at least a couple of generations between introduction of cellphones and the like and unusual dexterity developing in the thumbs.
I would venture that the author may have just added a couple of catchwords to sensationalize otherwhise uninteresting news.
Unusual dexterity is by no means a mutation: look at piano players, touch-typists and gunslingers (ah heck, I'm reading the book!). They all seem to have highly dextrous fingers or can do nearly "impossible tasks" compared to mundane people. They can do it by enough practice (which just shows how flexible the human body is) and don't thank mutation for their gifts.
Now, if youths started to grow extra thumbs in stead of forefingers, I'd shout: "Mutation! Unclean!"...
See here for articles from last year on this topic.
Is it merely a change in dexterity caused by practice? Does the Game Boy really cause, in less than one generation, a mutation in "young people"? Or is this more evidence that journalists cannot seem to grasp even the barest essentials of science?
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
HEADLINE: People who use their thumbs more are able to use their thumbs better! Scientists are baffeled because of the "geek" tie in. There might be link between this and runners who run alot can run better. News at 11.
I blame my thumbs from clicking (I can shoot at people with my fingers like a gun, and have the revolver clicking noise for sound effects.) on nintendo.
I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
I don't know anyone who uses anything but their thumbs ambidextrously for the TV remote control.
Gee I thought that my fingers curve towards my thumb naturally. Now does this adaptation mean that we'll soon be free of Carpel Tunnel Syndrome?
...people who use their thumbs more often have better coordination with their thumbs.
Can anyone say "slow news day" ?
Tomorrow on slashdot:
"People who type a lot don't even have to look at the keys"
"Study discovers that engineers better at factoring quadratic equations than grocery clerks"
"Musicians who practice more often are better musicians"
Robotiq.com is heavily tested on animals
Yes, and violinists are a bunch of wrist mutants, using their wrist more dexterously than non-violinists.
In other news, body-building causes physical mutations! Body builders have been observed with muscles far more voluminous than those of non-body builders, a clear case of physical mutations.
In related news, train track cause physical mutations! Many children living near train tracks have been observed exhibiting a lack of lower apendages! The advance of mechanical transportation having rendered the function of legs as a primary locomotive means useless, the legs of some people are falling off in an incredible example of physical mutations!
Other mutations in recent history include the apparition of a new human tissue composed of a polymer envelopped filled with either silicon or a saline solution in the region of Los Angeles. These mutations are thought to be cause by the proximity of large amounts of cellulose films used in movie production. The difference in content of these new physical mutations are thought to be two separate evolutionary branches. Scientists expect the saline variant to be the more sucessfull evolutionary track.
You can't take the sky from me...
Okay, as much as they fucked up with the whole "mutation" thing, you can't say that their refusal to use the word "terrorist" is not noble, at least within the context of journalism.
Reuter's editorial policy is that they will never use the term "terrorist" or "freedom fighter" or whatever, unless they are quoting. The goal is to be objective, and since Reuters is an international news service, they cannot afford to be US-centric or centered on the terminology of any nation.
Remember, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom-fighter. The word terrorist is very loaded. Reclaim The Streets! parties have been labelled terrorists simply for dancing in the streets. The French resistance against the Nazis was also called terrorism. It would be unethical, in the context of objective journalism, to use any government's definition of terrorism, so Reuters simply refuses to use the term, unless they are quoting.
Now, honestly, is that so bad?
(I do agree that journalism can never be truly objective, which is why I support media projects like the Independant Media Center, which wear their bias on their sleeves, but that's a debate for another day)
Back in the NES days I would use my index and middle fingers for the b and a buttons, the genesis controller was designed so I could do the same. But once shoulder buttons started to be on all controllers, from the SNES onwards, I couldnt pull that off. Now that the GBA has shoulder buttons, I cant think of a game system that you can reasonably use all the buttons with out using your thumb as the main button presser
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
Guess it doesn't affect wheel mouse users :D :D
I just need a bigger wheel
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
Okay, let's deny Gameboys and cellphones to the kids of these "mutants" and see how fast *their* thumbs are.
So besides suspciously abnormal forearm and wrist mutations, adolescants now have a thumb mutation too?
... for these people.
They've designed an entire keyboard around the concept of the game pad.
Thumbs are one of the major evolutionary factors that are responsible for the state in which humankind is now.
:-)
The opposing thumb for handling tools, the brain and the upright walk.... So the fact that ppl excessively use their thumbs could be -if you look at it from another perspective- referred to evolution. Though the term 'mutation' is rather wrong here.
As long as we'll use keyboard we won't end up using just our opposing thumbs
0 001 11 1
Well, as a dozen people have already pointed out, it's not a mutation. I suppose over generations, if the ability to quickly dial their social network members phone #s or impress potential mates with their Nintendo ability, we might see some evolutionary selection for this terrific thumbness, but it's gonna take a while.
Another, some what related idea: classic video gamers have often speculated about whether young people are now more dexterous with their left hand than they would be otherwise, given the new standard of having the primary joypad or stick be used by the left hand. This started, more or less, with the NES; most other systems were right handed (atari 2600) or ambidexterous (Intellivision, Colecovision, many video games)
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
It seems to me like people currently under the age of 25 have also grown up spending more time than any other generation playing video games.
Wait... I'm remembering something from psych 101... confounding variables? Wow! I did learn something from that class!
"The scientist describes what is; The engineer creates what never was." - Theodore von Karman
we all know that those who play gameboys frequently lack the ability to produce, or even have a chance at it.
Asexual reproduction maybe?
Photos.
Lamarckian inheritance lives!
I knew that cell phones would mutate people, but I never expected the keypads would be the reason.
over the past many years I have noticed something along these lines. Cordless/cell phones, remote controls, etc... I have always held them with my main fingers wrapped around them and pushed the buttons with my thumb. However, I have always observed my father holding the device in one (left) hand, and pushing the buttons with his index finger from his right hand. Sometimes it seemed painful to me to see him need two hands to use such simple devices (even palm pilot). I'd prolly cringe if he picked up a gameboy set the thing on the table and used his index fingers to duke out a long game of tetris. I personally did not grow up with gameboy / console systems everyday, but I did play them at my friends' houses. So maybe it's an early learning/use of the thumbs to strenghten them. But then again, my thumbs are complete klutzes on the piano/keyboard, but that's cuz they're rotated to be almost in line with my fingers as opposed to being opposed to them.
there's probably many other every day things that we use our thumbs for that the previous generations can't, maybe not due to physical ability, but maybe a mental block - "gee, I never thought of using my thumb for that! you, know it makes sense and it's easier!" who knows? Maybe I'll ask my dad about it over Easter...
peace,
Alan
This article sort of reminds of AT&T's new mLife commercials where they show a person cutting off the thumbs on all their gloves so they are more capable of using their phones. Also they have a comercial where they are selling a machine that works out those thumb muscles.
CmdrTaco writes: "An anonymous reader writes 'Reuters writes: "The use of gadgets such as mobile phones and GameBoys has caused a physical mutation in young people's hands. The use of the thumb is a deviation from the use of the index finger..."'"
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
I do agree that journalism can never be truly objective, which is why I support media projects like the Independant Media Center...
No. You actually supoort the Independent Media Center because you are liberal. You may indeed believe that journalism can never be truly objective, but this is not the specific reason you support Indymedia. Let's be honest here.
1. The act or process of being altered or changed.
2. An alteration or change, as in nature, form, or quality.
I'm pretty good with my thumbs, but I think it's because of all that training on my old HP-15c calculator in college. It was longer horizontally than vertically and you could hold it in your fingers while doing all the entries with your thumbs. Man, I could seriously fly using that thing....
He played so much foosball he had freaky muscles
in his wrist. I'm hip to what you are
saying. No, really, I understand.
Please don't mod me down. You moderators
are nice people, if you mod me down my
dog will die.
please
He didn't say he supoorted [sic] the IMC. He said he supoorted [sic] projects like the IMC.
In a related story, my brother has developed this unique mutation where he has the ability to use his left and right arm with equal dexterity...
Thousands of young Chinese circus performers have mutated themselves to be able to manipulate and balance large balls with their feet.
I have mutated my left arm to be able to manipulate a kyboard, while having mutated my right arm to be able to manipulate a mouse with ease.
My group of coworkers and myself have managed to mutate our brains into being able to quickly write and read computer language syntax.
Amazing!
that once you get your doctorate, nobody much cares about how you do things. This woman with a PHD (for cryin' out loud!) just watched several kids play gameboy and use the AOL messenger feature on their phones!
"In her research, Plant noticed that while those less used to mobile phones used one or several fingers to access the keypad, younger people used both thumbs ambidextrously, barely looking at the keys as they made rapid entries. "
Right, people in her "random sample" made rapid entries. She just grabbed a bunch of teens from the mall and said "wanna co-author a major government funded research project?"
Then she said "um... looks like the generation born in frickin' 1980 is mutating, ala X-men. I wanna be the one with laser eyes! I wanna be the one with laser eyes! Wheee!!!!"
Austin is more fun than Dallas.
My research shows I've become very adept at casting spells in video games.
Oh, and sorry about turning any readers into a newt, this morning, I'm still working on that one.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
their definition of "finger".
Main Entry: 1finger
Pronunciation: 'fi[ng]-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German fingar finger
Date: before 12th century
1 : any of the five terminating members of the hand : a digit of the forelimb; especially : one other than the thumb
especially one other than the thumb? so... is the thumb a finger or not?
wow, slow news day, but that story was really thumbthing...
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
I know most left-handed individuals feel that many standard tools are awkward to use because of some subtle biases towards the right-handed majority. E.g., think about the standard manual can opener.
Will the "thumb users" find standard objects equally awkward to use? What about after some thumb-based tools have become widely available (e.g., I could imagine swapping out a standard keyboard for a thumbboard), since that will provide less exposure to finger-based devices?
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
If this is a mutation, then by simple
rules of evolutionary biology, it must mean
that people who play a lot of video games have a better chance of having offspring!
This translates to a lot of geeks getting laid!
I just *knew* my PS2 would get me chicks!
Umm, what about the dose of radiation comming from the Television screen? Would that not cause DNA changes albeit small? You could argue how much safer new televisions are, but I am still using my old 1970's Zenith with the wooden cabnet that burns my shadow on the oposing wall.
An Afghani who opposed long term Russian occupation of Afghanistan - that might be a freedom fighter, though if he targetted civilians with bombs, his _methods_ are those of a terrorist.
In the cast of a bunch of foreign nations who sneak into a country with the intention of killing large numbers of civilians, the story is quite cut and dried. Their methods are those of terrorists, of the most violent sort. And they are not freedom fighters because they are not resisting an armed occupation of a nation-state.
We should condemn Reuter's unequivocally for refusing, for reasons of political correctness and timidness, to accurately label those who commit acts of violence with civilian targets as the _intentional_ victims. There is no excuse for it. Violence justifies violence in some cases, and resisting armed occupation is one thing. Resisting an oppressive government generally falls under "civil disobedience" and sometimes is justified, and sometimes is not.
But as soon as you pick civilian targets (i.e. people who don't carry guns and don't make it their business to kill others) and make your goal to kill as many innocents as possible, you have become a terrorist, plain and simple. And if you are a terrorist that targets civilians of some foreign entity, you damn well better expect that countries government is going to take organized military action against you, your organization, and probably whatever country you are from, and likely kill you and your family and lots of other innocent people who get caught in the military cross-fire.
The use of the thumb is a deviation from the use of the index finger...
:)
What about clicking the left mouse button using the index finger dozens of times a day for several years? Does the index finger become mulitated?
Well, far be it for me, a biochemistry student, to argue with a dictionary that gives an overall definition of each word, but... you're wrong.
Mutation is a genetic alteration at the cellular level; what these people are doing is training their bodies, in this case, their thumbs, in such a way that they have better control. You could technically paint with your toes as well (many people do it) but it's not a mutation.
A mutation is a random alteration of one or more chromosomes in the nucleus of the cell resulting in different productions/responses.
Nor is the parent of your comment correct, either; a mutation does NOT have to be in the germ line cells in order to be a mutation (in which case the mutation would be transmitted to offspring). Mutations can occur in standard mitotic cells and never be passed to offspring; Lemarkian inheritance has nothing to do with anything, but especially not with mitotic cells. I think we all know that a 'mutation' for the dexterity of the thumb is not occuring in the 'balls' of the 'gentlemen' who use technology and then father offspring.
Obviously Reuters hasn't yet "mutated" into a real news organization. They are constantly issuing basic factual errors like this... they and abcnews.com are both becoming huge embarrassments to themselves. Journalism is dead.
What about mouse usage creating more dexterous fingers? I used to be a console addict, but now I am a computer addict, so my thumbs, though dexterous, are less so than the finger I use with the mouse.
===> An eye for an eye makes everyone blind - MG
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :
Mutation \Mu*ta"tion\, n. [L. mutatio, fr. mutare to change: cf. F. mutation. See Mutable.]
Change; alteration, either in form or qualities.
The vicissitude or mutations in the superior globe are no fit matter for this present argument. --Bacon.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :
Mutation \Mu*ta"tion\, n.
1. (Biol.) Gradual definitely tending variation, such as may be observed in a group of organisms in the fossils of successive geological levels.
2. (Biol.)
(a) As now employed (first by de Vries), a sudden variation (the offspring differing from its parents in some well-marked character or characters) as distinguished from a gradual variations in which the new characters become fully developed only in the course of many generations. The occurrence of mutations, and the hereditary transmission, under some conditions, of the characters so appearing, are well-established facts; whether the process has played an important part in the evolution of the existing species and other groups of organisms is a disputed question.
(b) The result of the above process; a suddenly produced variation.
From WordNet (r) 1.6 :
mutation
n 1: an organism that has characteristics resulting from chromosomal alteration [syn: mutant, sport]
2: the process or event of mutating
Free Mac Mini
In order for this to be caused by "evolution" as some posters here are suggesting, it would be necessary for humans with more limber thumbs to have better reproductive success. Do you believe that? Do the most skilled Game Boy players get laid more often than other teenagers? Oh yeah, I sure believe *that*.
The article doesn't describe a mutation. A mutation is a genotype change -- a change in genes, in DNA. What the article describes is, at best, a phenotype change. Due to the particular environment of folks in modern societies, their thumbs have become more dexterous. I don't think that any reasonable observer of industrialized society finds it shocking that folks who play a lot of video games have agile thumbs -- but it is not a mutation in any sense of the word. The conflation between a genotype and phenotype are pretty common in so-called science journalism.
A young male human was situated near the ntersection of two supporting structural elements at right angles to each other: said subject was involved in ingesting a saccharine composition prepared in conjunction with the ritual observance of an annual fixed-day religious festival.
Insertion into the saccharine composition of the opposable digit of his forelimb was followed by removal of a drupe of genus prune. Subsequently the subject made a declarative statement regarding the high quality of his character as a young male human.
Does this mean playing Dance Dance Revolution will mutate me into a skilled martial artist?
Stop poking fun at this article. There are some very some very serious social ramifications of this adaptation/mutation. It clarifies some important trends I have seen in my life time.
My parent's generation was most adept at using the index finger...and they always accelled in the art of wagging it at me.
My generation: let's just say that we learned to use the middle finger, and would wave it back.
The kids today are in a horrid situation. In US culture, thumbs up means "A Okay". They are transforming into an anything goes generation. They seem just willing to give thumbs up to anything
Of course there are some terrible international implication. I understand that an Arab thumbs up is the same as a New York middle finger. Like all important sociological articles of the day, this brings us back to 9/11. Could this mutation be the real cause for the current US/Middle East crusade?
They never said there was a genetic mutation. Their use of the word was perfectly correct.
Mutation
1. The act or process of being altered or changed.
2. An alteration or change, as in nature, form, or quality.
3. Genetics.
1. A change of the DNA sequence within a gene or chromosome of an organism resulting in the creation of a new character or trait not found in the parental type.
2. The process by which such a change occurs in a chromosome, either through an alteration in the nucleotide sequence of the DNA coding for a gene or through a change in the physical arrangement of a chromosome.
3. A mutant.
4. Linguistics. The change that is caused in a sound by its assimilation to another sound, such as umlaut.
How will this affect their sexual foreplay :D Thumbs instead of index finger :D
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
The article does not state anywhere that there was a hereditary change. Only that there was a physical mutation. The word mutation does not have to have a hereditary meaning. It can simply mean that there was a physical change, which according to their claim, there was.
The word mutation comes from the 14th century and is described "as a significant and basic alteration".
...A large percentage of slashdot posters have mutated into picky pedants with nothing better to do than parrot the same mistaken "error" they found in the language of the article.
It's a nice day, folks. Go get some air.
goats.com: better than
From the review of the book: In Plant's view, drugs provided these writers with new insights into the working of the mind, newly discovered fragments of the self, and a new awareness of the limits of conventional ideas. Drugs granted them access to the twilight zones between dreamworld and reality, between the conscious and subconscious minds.
So maybe it WAS evolution, except that it was in ... The Twilight Zone
Back in the NES days I would use my index and middle fingers for the b and a buttons, the genesis controller was designed so I could do the same. But once shoulder buttons started to be on all controllers, from the SNES onwards, I couldnt pull that off.
Some Super NES games didn't use the shoulder buttons (Super Mario World). Some GBA games are the same (Super Mario Advance 1 and 2, Pinobee, Sonic). To this day, when playing SMB1, SMB2, SMB3, SMW, or SMW2 on original hardware (as opposed to plugging an N64 pad into Adaptoid and using NESten), I place my right index, middle, and ring fingers on Y, B, and A respectively. (Yes, Super NES pads are compatible with NES consoles through a trivial-to-construct adapter.)
Other games made L the same as R (Super Mario Kart (Super NES) and Tetris Worlds (GBA)), letting you wrap your left hand around the pad and use the right index fingers for the buttons, but for some reason I play those with my thumbs. The only games I use left thumb and right fingers on are platform games, especially those that require holding B and pressing A with precise timing.
Actually, the Genesis's 6-button pad had a right shoulder button labeled Mode, but few games used it. It was normally used for games that weren't 100% to spec in their pad reading code, as holding Mode while powering on the system would force the pad into 3-button mode.
Will I retire or break 10K?
...would be all of the Big Fat American Asses!
Many children living near train tracks have been observed exhibiting a lack of lower apendages! The advance of mechanical transportation having rendered the function of legs as a primary locomotive means useless, the legs of some people are falling off in an incredible example of physical mutations!
So in other words, are you saying we'll soon be seeing Lame Boy Advance?
Will I retire or break 10K?
But as soon as you pick civilian targets (i.e. people who don't carry guns and don't make it their business to kill others) and make your goal to kill as many innocents as possible, you have become a terrorist, plain and simple
In other words, when Reuters reports on the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima, or the fire-bombing of Tokyo, or the firebombing of Dresden (when high explosives were first used to smash the water system, to make it impossible to put out the fire started by later incindiary bombs), or similar events they should refer to these as "terrorist attacks" by the United States and (for those events in which they participated) Britain?
Because these events do fit your definition. The goal was to kill as many civilians as possible.
(Note that I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with these events being labelled as terrorist attacks, I'm just curious as to whether or not the poster truly wants to apply this definition in a consistent manner).
These new mutants are dangerous to society and should be watched. With their superior powers, they pose a signifigant threat to average humans. The mutants should be kept under survalance and/or locked up before it is too late.
The British Sunday newspaper referred to in the Reuters report is the Observer, and their story, which has a few more details and some funny bits, is here.
Its called, building muscle!
Yes, you can build your muscles anywhere else in your body and its not mutation, body builders build up and they arent called mutants, of course someone who uses their thumbs alittle more than average, has somehow had a genetic mutation and all their childrens thumbs will grow in the same way.
lol
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
nes had the worst pad of all time :D
NINTENDO thumb anyone?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Thats right, by becoming a body builder now, you will help keep your childrens children in shape.
Then they can all go to the olympics and become profesisonal rich atheletes.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
does this mean the phrase "all thumbs" is now a compliment?
Because no one knows what controls evolution, and saying the mysterious forces of nature control it, is as silly as saying the universe was created by a random big bang.
Nothing is random, if logic and science teaches you anything, thats what you learn first.
Second nothing is absolute, meaning nothing is for sure.
Third if its proven our actions control revolution, its saying we with our brains control our own evolution, so does this mean monks will be the most evolved because they spend their lives trying to master mind over matter?
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
If it's not the playing of games that gives rise to a more dexterous thumb, but the other way round, then we have the following scenario:
Mutated gene gives rise to a more dexterous thumb.
A more dexterous thumb grants the host improved console gaming skills.
A host with improved console gaming skills has more opportunities to procreate than those without the improved skill.
Leading to:
An increase in the proportion of the population with the mutated gene.
Ergo, evolution by Natural Selection.
Political Correctness is doubleplusungood.
Conclusive evidence that if every kid in the world listened to metal and played the guitar, we'd all be okay.
Oh, please - give me a fucking break moderators!
Presumable a baby breaking wind could count as 'insightful' around here.
We havent figured out exactly what causes it, or how to control it.
Perhaps someone who knows why they evolve, can control the speed at which they evolve, as well as how
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Apparently, this "mutation" does not affect all locations equally. With exception to a brief interlude in the last three months of 2001, here in NYC, the middle finger still reigns supreme as the most dextrous digit.
Read my sig if you like, but I'll never see yours, thanks to Discussions, Viewing, Disable sigs...
No one has yet to address the main point in this article... The fact that it's TOTAL BS. First, when I type on a keyboard, the only thing my thumbs do are press the spacebar. I don't consider that a very good way to dramatically "mutate" their ability. Second, when dialing a phone, I don't use my thumbs. The article's entire point is based upon
"The change affects those who have grown up with hand-held devices where the thumbs are used for keying in text messages and emails. "
It is my believe htat 95% of the under 25 generation doesn't use PDA's, those who do don't use their thumbs, and when people type the thumb rarely moves to other keys except the spacebar.
This article is pure rubbish. It just goes to show you that anyone can be a journalist and pull crap from your ass. Heh.
"Discovering that the younger generation has taken to using thumbs in a completely different way and are instinctively using thumbs where the rest of us are using our index fingers is particularly interesting."
I can exactly think of anything that we used to use our index fingers for that now we use our thumbs for other that data entry. And how exactly did we use our thumbs then that makes us using them different now? We used to sit around with our thumbs up our asses, but now we can text message with them, eliminating the bordom I guess.
I just had a conversation with my girlfriend, who is somewhat freaked by this. What if human thumbs get larger and more versatilve due to the mind prjecting them as a more important appendage?
My first thought was, at least the XBOX has controllers perfectly made for their hands....
:D
-SaintArchan
Blah to the skins and Blah to the punks and Blah to the world and everybody sucks.
well, the people of japan were training, as you would recall if you weren't so biased, to kill as many american soldiers as possible. they were, in that respect, soldiers (women and children were training to kill, as well as any men that weren't in the army), and as such america did not commit acts of terrorism by killing noncombatants. if you train to kill people, you are, in fact, a combatant. people in the world trade centers were not training to kill Al Queda "freedom fighters," and they were not combatants in any sense of the word. they were civilians, and a civilian target was attacked there. so, the attackers were terrorists, who deliberatly targeted people that were not trying to kill them, and that were not in a war with them, and that were simply going to work like any other day.
Guns are like umbrellas and condoms. Better to have one and not need it, than need it and not have one.
This is complete hog wash. I suppose if I learned to type my use of all my fingers to press keys would also be considered a physical mutation. Is this what passes for news? It's Crap!!
Won't someone please think of the mutant children!
They're working on being a "real news organization," though. Phase I is spelling. Once they can spell the really hard words better, they'll move on to Phase II, punctuation. Phase III is grammar, of course. Then they'll have time for Phase IV, accuracy.
Frankly, though, they haven't made much progress on Phase I, so I'm not sure they even care.
Cheers,
-- Don Inodoro
Quick, I need some help! Does anyone know how to structure a driver disk for Red Hat for the network install? I have rtl8139.o and .c, and I'm wondering what to do with it?
Thank god someone finally went public with this.
For years now, I've noticed myself using my thumbs for everything: opening doors, eating, picking things up, and almost everything I use my hands for.
I've hid my hands in shame for so long now, thinking I was a freak. At least now I can take the mittens off... ~sniff~
As the Reuters article says, this came from the Observer. So why not read the original article here
I really like your comment, and if I had five moderation points I would give them all to you.
I believe that journalism is never objective, and that much of the best groundbreaking journalism is honestly partisan.
Consider that many of the reporters in a given area who attempt to cover both sides are stuck in a capital city listening to spokespeople. A war correspondent who covers the force of one side will have much more insight into that limited aspect of the conflict.
I see each news as a piece - when I write an article it's a "piece.." I put the pieces together, attempting to triangulate for various kinds of bias, when I read the news.
Goat sex free since 2001
WTWF (World Thumb Wrestling Federation) Announcer: So how does it feel to be thumb of tech-kid of this current generation?
Hulk Thumb: I am the fastest, meanest, fight'n machine in the world. Thumbs in the old days might have been tougher and suntaned, with their hosts playing outside for amusement... But I, as the top thumb wrestler in this new day, I say that thumbs like me would have beat down all those old thumbs. I mean, during my sparring matches, my host doesn't even autofire! I use one of my moves, the 'Spastic Attack,' to pummel my training partner, Mr. A button.
WTWF: So are you challenging any and all older thumbs to a match?
Hulk: Gene, what did I say. I will destroy all comers. I am so agile, so powerful, that no one can avoid my pin.
0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
"Nyah, nyah. My thumb is more opposable than yours."
Kevin Fox
Does this mean our fingers will slowly atrophy until we are "all thumbs"?
At one point, I became so good with my thumbs that I started picking my nose with them. Not a good idea.
Ergonomically the thumb is simply better for handheld gadget manipulation (i.e., why the Blackberry pagers are fundamentally easier to use than the Palm with its awkward sylus cramping your hand.) It simply took gadget designers 20 years to realize it. It's funny how long poor interfaces stay with mainstream culture simply because they happen to be "first".
Have you considered people who play games? Look at all game console controllers, the only thing you use is your thumbs. Same goes for the Gameboy and Gameboy Advanced.
-- Tick, tock, tick, tock. . .
Hmmm... I use my thumbs for a lot of things that maybe others would use their index fingers for... but nothing beats a good index finger to shove up your nose. Thumbs just don't work as well, but I could use them... does this make me superhuman?
Things that make ya go.. "hmmmm"
Just give every youth an IBM Thinkpad
Remember, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom-fighter.
Yeah. I remember in history class how the Founding Fathers used to suicide-bomb the Tories. In a cart loaded with black powder, they would crash into civilian targets.
Idiot.
In other words, when Reuters reports on the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima, or the fire-bombing of Tokyo, or the firebombing of Dresden (when high explosives were first used to smash the water system, to make it impossible to put out the fire started by later incindiary bombs), or similar events they should refer to these as "terrorist attacks" by the United States and (for those events in which they participated) Britain?
Umm, we were AT WAR WITH THEM at the time.
A war, I might add, started BY THEM with their attack on Pearl Harbor.
Idiot.
I guess this explains why I can't play with any game pad for more than a minute without feeling like my thumb is going to break off. The young'uns have adapted to the abuse.
'Course, back in my day, I used to get a recurring blister on my right middle finger, thanks to the wear and tear caused by the old Midway joysticks.
--- Work, worry, consume, die. It's a wonderful life. -- Bill Griffith
How the hell is this comment "insightful" and the replies are all "off topic". This should (if it were possible) be moderated as "idiotic statement" and the replies should all be modded as "off topic". Whatever...
[FromTheMorning]
This isn't a physical mutation any more than the change in the way I use my fingers to type since I learnt to touch type is a physical mutation.
I can see the advantage in learning to be able to be dextrous with your thumbs -- it very probably makes it easier to operate a small device one-handed...
Agreed. I will believe in genetic mutation for the purpose of adaptation as soon as my children come out with 6 fingers on each hand so they can type faster.
[FromTheMorning]
I would generally call what they're describing "practice." It's not a mutation. Is it a mutation when people who normally bat right handed learn to bat left?
Ignoring the nonsensical use of "mutation"... I've noticed that little kids use their thumbs like adults use their forefingers. But the current crop of kids are the first generation that grew up with buttons on EVERYTHING, and were introduced to it right out of the crib. How many kids nowadays have ever seen a rotary dial telephone?
I think it's the natural effect of a transition from gadgets where the forefinger or a thumb-and-fingers grip was the reasonable choice (such as rotary phone dials and rotary controls on TVs, stoves, etc) to gadgets that are button-driven, so any digit will do the job.
If you watch toddlers, you'll notice they try to press buttons with their thumbs far more often than they try to press them with an index finger. To a toddler, everything is for gripping (not for poking) so the gripping member (the thumb) is the natural choice.
If you grow up with buttons on every gadget in the house, it's likely that you'll continue to use your thumb, rather than getting retrained to use an index finger (as getting your thumb damnear ripped off by a phone's rotary dial will enforce in a hurry).
This is no different from the sort of retraining that happens with any interface transition. It just happens to coincide with a physical action that comes more naturally to little kids, hence is easy to continue doing as they grow up.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Poor soul
Trapped in the land of trolls, bizarre poetry, and the penis bird
You lost. There are certain accepted practices in Warfare, and destroying purely civilian targets (esp. with the intent on maximising casualties) is not one of them. That is why the UN creates war tribunals and why the USofA is opposed to creating a permanent one. They are afraid a permanent tribunal will undermine the ability of America to take the easy route out and play dirty once in a while.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
The QWERTY keyboard has also changed the priorities humans place on which fingers to use. 200 years ago we held teacups with our thumb and index finger; now we are much more likely to use the middle finger as well. Anybody remember Pac-Man Elbow? 2600 Joystick Blister?
Actually, some women might find increased thumb dexterity very attractive....
Clear, Dark Skies
Not really, when you consider a mutation it happens in the next generation (unlike cancer). A mutation in a single cell in the hand will not cause the physical structure to change. The continued use of it in a particular way will cause the physical structure to change but it will not be passed on to future generations.
In case you wanted to know, cells that eventually go on to become sperm and eggs are actually segregated early in the embryonic stage. Thus, any genetic changes that happen to a person during their life will not be passed on to the next generation.
internet like monkeys'
No, you just have a really big nose.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
It has been discovered that it isnow makes it 30% harder for the youth of today to thumb their nozes at other countries, for the same reason as the above article. Does this mean that gameboys are leading to world peace? Watch tonight at 11 as well reveal the amazing fact that most people who can talk are, in fact, alive!
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I know this is getting off-topic, but it's something I just wanted to mention. The Original Article for this story makes the quote:
'The mobile is fast becoming an essential prop in the social life of 20-year-olds,' she said. 'It has even become part of their mating display, with young men trying to impress women with the advanced technology of their phones.'
Everywhere I look, there are these young guys who hardly can't afford to eat because they spent all their money on clothing, cars, loud stereos, and mobile phones... flashy stuff, in other words. Material posessions to give the impression to the world that they're rich, successful, and smart. Every talk to one of them? They are dumb as rocks. They seem to be slaves to their self-image. And I'm not talking about the occasional paycheck-waster; where I'm currently living, this demographic accounts for something like 80% of the population of 18-25 year old males.
Given a figure like that, it shouldn't seem so out of the ordinary to me, but it does. Maybe it's because I'm perfectly happy with my '92 Mercury Topaz. Or that I don't feel I need/want a cellphone. Or because I haven't bought a thread of clothing in a year and a half.
I've attributed much of this to being a mating ritual, but (and I could be wrong here) I don't believe my mating habits are the same as these guys. I don't feel the need to impress anyone, female or otherwise. If they do happen to be impressed with me then great. But I'm not going to make a conscious effort to be attractive. (In my mind, the effort is usually not worth the gain.) It should be noted that I am in fact engaged, though I assume my fiance did not say "yes," due to my sexy Mercury Topaz.
All right, let's have some consistency. Isn't this offtopic?
I think it is neat that someone is using thier thumbs more than thier index finger .. heh it is neat
Yours Truly, Wes -- Owner
one these devices without looking. does that make me somekind of mutant?
What is pirate software? Software for inventory of stolen treasure?
That's retarded. 'certain accepted practices in Warfare'? War is just a game... a really bloody, shitty, stupid game. You can do this to kill people, but not this or that... that makes a whole hell of a lot of sense..
Left handed people use their hands better than right handed people!
No, you're the idiot. To a mental midget such as yourself, Assata Shakur is a terrorist. To me and many others she's a Freedom Fighter. The world is grey. Deal.
The older generation has said for years that the younger generation is all thumbs. This research now proves it.
I have big hands and I've noticed that whenever using a gadget I use the ball of my thumb joint to push the buttons. ie, a hard spot at the first knuckle rather than the end of the thumb. It has gotton harder and more pronounced over the years (callused (sp)?) For instance on a camera with buttons on the back, I use the thumb joint to push the button. If I used the thumbtip I would probably mash two buttons by mistake.
Anybody else use their thumb this way? I haven't really thought about it until reading this story. Maybe I'm just a mutant.
Also the end of my thumb can bend 90 degrees in either direction.. apparently this isn't common either.
Are you going to tell us next that the holocaust didn't happen?
You are fucking sick.
You know, You really need to stop calling everyone you disagree with an idiot. It seems to me that you're the one who is posting stupid resposes to insightful questions. Back to Grade School for you, ace.
Actually I mutated when I first start to use the remote control. Didnt we all?
Well its very nice and noble to tell us about what the word terrorism "should" mean or what it used to mean. But really what we are interested in how the meaning of the word has changed through time to mean: "What the U.S. doesn't do".
You can look at archives of any major American newspaper. Search the computer archives of the New York Times (which goes back to 1980) for occurances of the word "terrorism" and try to find one instance where it is used to describe the actions of the U.S. You will find none.
Have you ever heard of Iran-Contra? Operation MONGOOSE? By the traditional meaning of the word "terrorism" the U.S. is one of the biggest and most dangerous exporters of terrorism around the world. We don't even try to keep our government funded terrorism department a seret (the C.I.A.).
The word "terrorism" has changed to mean "Something that that U.S. doesn't do." It is a loaded word designed to suppress thought. And as such it should be avoided where possible.
One thing - I grew up in the 1980s, using joystick input devices for computer games. I used the stick with my right hand.
Even keyboard-weenies use the cursor keys, which are usually on the right!
These days, all the games consoles have joypads, with the directional controller pad on the left.
In a species where 90% of the population is right-handed, why are joypad d-pads on the left?
Is it the same reason as those annoying arcade machine joysticks, a cheap-ass way to make the game last a bit longer by making it harder to play for most of the population?
Choice of masters is not freedom.
I think the reason for this is not a physical mutation but rather a change in the brain. When a musician trains his fingers, amount of neurons dedicated to each finger grows larger and more distinct, so he can control each one with more exactness. Its a simple matter of the kids using their thumbs so much, and that more grtey matter is dedicated to the movement of the thumb, it is then more efficient to us the thumb for other tasks(like pointing, and ringing doorbells).
--
What is the sound of this sentence?
Well, it looks like thumb-cripples will soon be removed from the gene-pool then.
Hehehe...this is hilarious ! Maybe we can have a revival of these terrific american 50's horror-movies: "Attack by the Horribly Mutated Gameboy ! BEWAAAAARE .. it is horrible... it comes in the
night ! Before you know it, it will .... eh ...consume two more batteries !!!"
(no wait... that didn't come out right !)
Ed Woods, eat your heart out ! :-)
There actually IS a phenomenon where organs or limbs which are used more often during growth actually become larger to handle increased demand. It is not, however, evolution, and does not pass to the next generation. Anyone know what it's called?
I guess that this means that the gamers of today will be the uber-hitchhikers of tomorrow. And furthermore, it makes you pity any kids whose parents talked them out of masturbation...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1. The more you play a sport the better you become.
2. The more you type, the faster you can type
3. The more you study, the more you know(not always).
Now that I think about it, I've been using my scientific calculator more rapidly than others by using both thumbs at once...I never really noticed that before...guess I'm a mutant. ;)
Omnes arx vestrum sunt adiuncta nobis.
Absolutely right.
Dresden, Hiroshima were terrorists actions.
Just because its state sponsored terrorism doesnt make it less true.
I remember during a NATO brainwashin..uh, briefings a few years ago, the US generals were openly talking about targeting civilians and no one even winced.
Then again, the US leads the world in bullshit which they then try to spin to suit their needs.
The fight against terrorism is the 'fight against regimes we propped up and now have no use for.'
Terrorists like Arafat and (fill in the blank with any Israeli butcher like Sharon, etc) are no better or worse than the Clintons of this world.
If I hear one more moron talking about 'freedom' I think Im going to vote for Pat Buchanan !!!
I so wish I had a few mod points today...
The word terrorist has been so watered down by misuse, that it now serves only as a label to put on those that the powers that be feel like targetting today.
Once you have been labeled a terrorist you have no rights what so ever. Ther is no need for proof or due process.
Peaceful civil disobedience, or simply using the right to protest is getting more dangerous every day.
And this is true, not only in the US, the EU is not far behind.
This is excactly the development the RAF tried to kickstart in Germany 30 years ago. They tried to provoke the state to show its "true oppressive self" by comitting acts of terrorism. The increasing oppression was supposed to trigger a revolution by the people.
They failed.
But now, the governments of the entire western hemisphere are walking this dangerous path again.
We can't save democracy by destroying it!
Lets hope there is anything left to save by the time people realise this.
No, You're the idiot. And a hypocrite.
People like you keep declaring the US, governments backed by the US, or insurgencies supported by the US as "terrorists" but if the US opposes them, they're freedom fighters.
Are the Israeli settlers "Freedom Fighters" or are they terrorists?
How the hell did this get posted? Nothing CAUSES mutations, they are selected by the death of those individuals who do not carry it. The key there is that it has to be a trait that improves survivability. I see one more reference in pop culture to someone ore something mutating on the spot I swear I'm going to go postal.
But of course!
All the infants in japanese hospitals were trining to kill Americans. The kids in the schoolyard was training to kill americans. Everyone was training to kill americans. Of course! Why didn't I think of that.
If the japanese government said to the people: "Defend your self against invasion!" This makes every last citizen of japan a valid target.
You do realize that you just declared the nazi bombing of london legitimate, do you? idiot!
Targetting civilians is terrorism, even if it is committed by the USA. And, by God nuking a city is targetting civilians.
Judge yourselves by the same standards you judge others!
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Yeah, and the same thing could be said about Israel. Both men and women in that nation have forced military duty. There are many ways to extrapolate that every citizen of any nation is in some way military.
The word mutation has other uses than in genetics. "To mutate" simply means to change. In fact, my dictionary lists "CHANGE" as a synonym for "mutation". On the other hand, it's true that common usage has become strongly tied to genetics. However this merely makes the headlines misleading, not incorrect. Which makes the parent post overrated (as well as wrong -- the change is a mutation, just not a genetic mutation.)
The deformation of crystal lattices under extremes of pressure and temperature is often referred to as mutation. Obviously, crystals don't have any form of genetics.
You can find the exact text of the original "research", such as it is, here. Google dwells in the sky and rules us.
The thing is a glossy advertising sheet which motorala purchased - NOT a research paper. The word "Data" DOES NOT EVEN APPEAR. Likewise, the words power, mean and measurement, and the letter n, are nowhere used in any statistical sense. The "research" seems to involve no hard numbers WHATSOEVER. The report has no references, although the author has peppered it with the names of her friends, along with vague, sweeping claims about the results of their "research" (if you can find evidence anywhere of where this supposed work was reported, by all means, post!) If there was ever any primary data associated with this report, it is not here and I cannot find it, although Dr. Plant includes a dozen glossy photographs she took herself. Dr. Sophie Plant, the author of the article, has quit her job at the University of Warwick's cybernetic culture research unit (a fact reuters also glosses over) in order, supposedly, to write full time.
Incidentally, the cybernetic culture research unit, established by Dr. Sadie Plant (author of the report), seems to do a lot of, yes I will keep the quotes, "research" into the experiences of people abducted by UFOs. Their homepage reads like the ravings of a new age schizophrenic.
This paper is absolute vapor; even in the field of Sociology is stands out for it's lack of substance.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
lol
I love this site
Here is a discussion of different definitions of terrorism. Whatever definition you accept, it is a highly charged and ambiguous word. This page goes deeper into the subject and contains a fascinating interview snippet with a State Department official. While seeming to have a clear definition of terrorism, the official evades questions and ultimately states, "I do not think it will be productive to get into a description of the various terms and conditions under which we are going to define an act by the PLO as terrorism."
In other words, the US reserves the right to define terrorism as it goes. I can't blame Reuters for steering clear of this word.
There are other forms of mutation than genetic. A mutation is simply a change (with an implication of outside forces and permanence). Granted, the usage was a bit ambiguous -- years of bad scifi, with "mutant monsters", and years of annoying arguments with annoying religious freaks has caused other uses of the word "mutate" to fade from the public eye.
/. certainly points out a problem. Journalists should strive to be clear, and apparently a lot of people are unclear on the actual meaning of "mutation".
But to claim that this change is not a mutation simply reveals the speaker's own ignorance of the English language. The word "mutation" is used in other technical fields than genetics, in contexts that have nothing to do with inheritance. On the other hand, the widespread confusion over the term here at
So, the article was wrong because it used the term in a way many people don't expect, but it wasn't technically wrong.
Remember, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom-fighter.
Listen to fnkmaster. "Terrorist" describes tactics, not goals. "Freedom fighter" is of course just a euphemistic term for "rebel". The only person I have ever heard seriously using the term 'freedom fighter' was Ronald Reagan.
To take the example of US revolution, so dear to my red-blooded American heart: the war was clearly a rebellion. An 18th century Reuters could have called it this without tarnishing its precious objectivity. In many places, particularly the Southern states, the rebels relied on guerrilla warfare against British and Hessian soldiers. Again, a completely object statement.
If rebels decided to attack some of the many civilians who were loyal to the crown (as I'm sure they sometimes did), then that would be terrorism. They would still be rebels, but this act would make them terrorists. Now do you see that there is a distinction?
Or again: if Israel decides to bomb a few refugee camps at random in retaliation for an attack, that would be terrorism. But if they attack a munitions safehouse or assassinate the leader of an insurgent group, that is an attack on a military target and not terrorism.
Of course it is true that many people misuse the word to suit their own purposes. But that is true of any term you can imagine, and it is absolutely not a reason to give up on language altogether.
I myself doubt that Reuters is half so concerned about objectivity as they are about offending the varied political opinions of their readership. And that is a shame since it prevents them from taking a principled stand on anything. The Associated Press has exactly the same problem.
By the textbook definition of "terrorist", we could correctly call Israel a terrorist, facist, racist state of apartheid which is guilty of ethnic clensing and genocide. Reuter's attempt is to not label one side as the good guys and the other as the bad guys, which is something that, say, CNN does every day.
Have you ever considered how biased our (USA) media is? In the whole Israel vs Pal conflict, Israelis are never called terrorists, even though the UN has recognized that Israel targets Palestinian civilians with violence. So the entire USA gets a light brainwashing everytime they watch the news. Palestinians are terrorists, and the Israelis are just using military action in self defense.
Do you see the bias? What about on September 11th, when the entire USA is shown some footage of 5 or 6 Palestinian teens dancing in the streets upon the news of the WTC attacks? This is a textbook case of taking something way out of context! Yeah, all of those tanks, heliocopters, missiles, bullets, etc, which have been used by Israel to kill everyone of those Palestinians were all made in the USA and given to Israel. In fact, the USA has supported Israel since the begining, with large amounts of money and weapons. Oh, and checking history shows that Israel has been illegaly occupying Palestinian land, using military force by the way, for several decades. So our lovely unbiased news "just reports" how these kids are dancing in the streets, but neglects to give the viewer any context. Knowing how the american educational system works, the average viewer doesn't know a thing about the history behind that conflict, and therefore, showing the USA a short clip of Pal teens dancing in the streets will serve the purpose of labelling the Pals as the "bad guys" - lumped together with the WTC terrorists.
My point is that, first of all, al Quaeda and the Palestinians are two separate issues. Furthurmore, all sides are guilty of murder or aiding murder! The important thing to realize is that what a nation supports and does is NOT what a person in that nation supports and does. The smartest thing would be to form a UN meeting amongst the common citizens of these nations, the ones that don't have "military action" as one of their solutions... have those people come up with a solution. Otherwise, each side will continue to choose and support leaders that have "military action" as their solution for international problems, and we will all continue to kill each other ad infinitum.
Also, some more food for thought on the whole Palestinian vs Israel conflict. If the USA is pissed off at Iran because Iran gives weapons to Palestine, then why is it ok that the USA gives weapons to Israel? Seems like a double standard. Or how bout the fact that Iran building nuclear weapons, is bad (even though they are doing it to protect their nation against Iraq, their not-best-friend of a neighboring nation), while the USA's stockpiling of weapons of mass destruction isn't bad. Yet again, another "bad guys" & "good guys" philosophy used by our nations leaders.
I think everyone in the USA needs to really get introspective, and see if they are brainwashed (oh no you think, the our media is pure truth, not an instrament of social engineering). See if they have chosen a side a priori. Because choosing sides, choosing military solutions - these things will only furthur the violence, furthur the hatred.
Please knock it the fuck off.
I do not know if it's some form of geek-autism involved, or simply a case of the 'self-esteem' industry run amuck, but you apparently lack the intelligence to realize how utterly uninteresting, wrong-headed and clueless the majority of your posts are.
Please post without the bonus, for your own sake, and for everyone's.
It's so refreshing when level-headed intelligence eloquently extinquishes ignorant buffoonery.
I'm not trying to excuse the bombing of Hiroshima, but if the goal were really to kill as many people as possible, they would not have picked Hiroshima. They would have picked Kyoto or Tokyo or another large city. Hiroshima was a target was there was a large military base there (mixed in with all the civilians of course).
If you want to call the bombing of Dresden or the large-scale bombing of Tokyo terrorism, that is fine with me. Even back then it was recognized (by the military if not the press) that these actions were particularly harsh and against the traditional laws of war -- but this was excused as being a legitimate response to the bombing of London and other war crimes.
The idea was, if you violate the laws of war, you will not be protected by them. Indeed, they thought that if a country violated the rules of war that is was not only appropriate, but necessary to punish them in some way.
Personally I think this is a wrong idea to apply to civilian targets. Although I do agree that in the case of certain clear Geneva convention violations (chemical warfare, etc.) it is legitimate to consider that that side has forfeited any benefits it has under the Geneva convention, at least to the extent that the end of the war can be hastened. Of course this does not apply to WWII as such since IIRC the Geneva convention was made afterward.
>Remember, one person's terrorist is another
>person's freedom-fighter
Whose freedom was being fought for when the airliners flew into the World Trade Center?
I keep hearing this little soundbite, and nobody has been able to answer that question.
-l
Read about the battle of Okinawa sometime. Civilians literally jumped off of cliffs by the hundreds rather than surrender to the American troops. It was a huge tragedy and it freaked the hell out of the Americans. These civilians were not even Japanese, they were natives of Okinawa and did not particularly like the Japanese. But they committed suicide because the Japanese had convinced them that the Americans would do much worse to them if they surrendered.
It is simply impossible for anyone who has not lived in a totalitarian state to understand what it was like. So you are correct that the infants were not trained to resist American invasion. But they would have had a very slim chance of surviving an invasion by the US or the USSR. And yes, students were trained in elementary school that it was an honor to die for one's country and more importantly that surrender was worse than death.
Like I said, Einstein, the world is grey. Yeah, I think many of the thug killers that the U.S. backs are terrorists--what of it? One man's terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter.
And you know, You really need to stop calling everyone you disagree with an idiot. It seems to me that you're the one who is posting stupid resposes to insightful questions. Go back to Grade School until you learn something.
I still can't see why it was not an act of terrorism to drop nukes on civilians.
And I don't think that the statement "they might not have survived anyway" is a good excuse.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Looks like we are going way off topic, but...
A comment like this is why I think the US still has a relatively healthy society at the end of the day. I am not living in the US any more, but after living in several countries (Japan, US, and Germany), I note that the US has the most diverse range of opinions. And there is virtually no barrier in expressing them, which is hard to say about other countries. For example, you cannot talk much about the imperial family publicly in Japan, it is kind of a ``taboo'' to support atomic energy in Germany, etc.
There may be general direction where public opinion in the US heads toward. But I find it nice that there always are critical voices, and they are heard!
I say, ``keep up the good work, 'mericans!''
(While I am writing this comment, the parent was modded down. It was modded up before. I guess this is the evidence that there are many kinds of people even at
Hanzo-san installed Linux! This makes him expert in everything!
He doesn't need modded down to +1, he needs his own website so everyone can appreciate his special intelligence.
He's not trolling , can't you see? He really doesn't get it! He needs to write for Adequacy.com now!!! Please!!!
I think Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles altered the general perception of the word mutation a bit. All kidding aside, I can imagine a 20 year old today having a different idea about it than the 40 year old who wrote this article.
"Derp de derp."
The military presence of the USA in the gulf as well as the economic and cultural influence of the US over Saudia Arabia.
("Al Qa'ida" 's words, not mine)
Every terrorist organization has it's own dirt cheap ideology.
The point is, their craving for blood exceeds their craving for "freedom".
The declared goals of "Hizbulla" in Lebanon were to free Lebanon of the Israely occupation of Lebanese soil (in the south of Lebanon).
Once Israel has withdrawn, They are eager to draw Israel back, so they continue the "resistance" even though there is no Israely presence in Lebanon.
Ideology is an option to terrorists and not a must.
It will be changed with circumstances - if the US were to withdraw it's forces from the gulf, the demands will also be altered and terrorism will continue.
Stop being so naive, people have killed for much less.
No, he said that he's doing your mom right now.
Believe it.
as most of you have no doubt realized.
;, and / keys very much. Since I use my right thumb for the spacebar, my left one will probably "mutate" into another index finger, or simply atrophy and drop off. Shyeah, right.
Next they'll call using feet to turn bike pedals or push car pedals a mutation. I guess I mutated when I learned to touch-type. I am no longer homo-sapiens, but homo-cardrivian bicycleridian touchtypian 10keyian microwave- operatus computerusermaximus.
Seriously, these people probably think if they switch from a QWERTY keyboard to a Dvorak, they'll have to mutate because they probably, like me, have (for example) left pinky-fingers which are currently only capable of pressing the q a and z buttons. Likewise, my right pinky is not a very useful digit, and maybe someday will just drop off as I mutate since I don't use the p,
These people should spend a nice long quiet evening in an insane asylum to try to get their bearings back. Hey, I've an idea! Once they do this, LEAVE THEM IN THERE!
I see homo-journalistus as lacking a critical survival trait: comon sense. Let's see if they'll evolve.
~Me.
Believe it.
Retarded jackass. Believe it.
http://barnaclesystems.com/eminet/ has an interesting take on the whole "what's next for the monkeys?" debate.
Okay, as much as they fucked up with the whole "mutation" thing, you can't say that their refusal to use the word "terrorist" is not noble, at least within the context of journalism.
Yes I can, you dipshit. IT IS NOT NOBLE. It is beneath contempt. A suicide bomber who kills 3000 innocent cilvilians of all races, genders, ages, religions and nationalities is fucking terrorist. Get your head out of your ass.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
This really is a good helping of drivel. If there's one thing I've learned by reading articles about technical or scientific topics in mainstream media it's that you can't really trust it, not because the subject matter is suspect, but rather because the journalist who wrote the story is not very well informed about the science or technology upon which they are reporting.
This is a good example of what I mean. The type of "evolution" or "mutation" described in this article falls under the umbrella of Lamarckian evolution, not Darwinian. Larmarck was a french scientist who theorised that a physical change exhibited in an organism as a response to its environment would be reflected in it's offspring as an inheritable trait. The classic example is the evolution of the long neck of the giraffe. The anscestors of giraffes had short necks but, according to Lamarck, over their lifetimes, they stretched their necks trying to reach for ever higher branches, these longer necks were then passed on to their children. Over the generations their necks reached their current length.
The Darwinian way of looking at this is that every generation or so a pre-giraffe was born with the mutation carrying the genes for a longer neck. This longer neck conferred upon it's owner an advantage (more available food) and so it had more offspring than shorter necked pre-giraffes. Slowly this mutation outbread the shorter neck gene and so the population as a whole had longer necks. This process eventually results in our modern giraffe.
Lamarcks theory while on the surface somewhat resonable failed in several respects. How, under Lamarckian evolution, could the giraffe add vertibrae to its neck? Simply stretching the neck, while having a physical effect on the structure of ligaments, muscles, and to a limited extent bones, does not create whole new vertibrae to be passed on to a creatures offspring. Lamarck would have us beleive that any physical change in the individual would manifest itself in the offspring. If Lamarck's theories were true we would see the offspring of people who had nose jobs growing up with noses similar to their parents post surgery faces, not noses dictated by the genetics that created their parents original nose.
Scientific exploration, while vindicating (in the eyes of most) the theories of Darwin, has completely failed to find any supporting evidence for the theories of Lamarck. This story describes a learned behavior, not an evolved adaptation to the modern human genome. If these "new" humans with their "new thumbs" had children who were raised in an environment without cell phones, game controllers, etc. they would not manifest this behavior.
Excellent troll. I just sprayed coke out my nose.
If you can't figure it out, how the hell do you operate in daily life?
I should Like to build one of these adapters. any good links you could give me?
Try this journal article of mine. For SNES pad to NES console, just look up the schematics for the NES pad (from nesdev) to see which wires are clock, strobe, power, and data, and then bastardize a couple Super Extendo cables.
About the icon: Seems every time I make reference to one of Slashdot's topic icons, they change it. For example, games was originally a Nintendo 64 controller, but they had to go and make it an Atari 2600 controller instead. Spam was originally a can of SPAM® brand canned pork until I started making a fuss about Hormel's product image; then they changed it to a sculpture of a pig made out of said luncheon meat.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Lately I have been diagnosed with Reynaud's Disease (or phenomenon). Basically cold weather causes the blood vessels in my hand to spasm or constrict, making some of my fingers white or numb.
The causes seem fairly murky, but stress or emotion can be a factor and I have seen pages alledge that working with vibrating tools can be a factor. I wonder if computer use/gameplay can cause this kind of condition in the fingers. Anyone else have experience with this?
L
you can't say that their refusal to use the word "terrorist" is not noble, at least within the context of journalism.
Oh, yeah, there was at least one daycare center at WTC. Still think this wasn't terrorism, fuckface?
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Thats how wars have been fought for over 100 years. Thats why in WWI and before European nations were no allowed to use certain types of weapons on soldiers (such as "exploding bullets").
Beware the tranparent Gif
You've even tried to do this??
How can you see what you're doing, or is there a special controller available so you don't look at the floor. A mirror might work I suppose.
So can you move and fire at the same time. Must have a pretty good tongue action.
And how does this go with vibrating controllers?
I live in America, born here... stayed here. I love this place, but I see the problems it has. Just watching the news, local or national (e.g. CNN)... again and again, the Palestinian killers are referred to as "terrorists", while the Israeli killers are referred to as "military". A subtle bias? I think not.
Furthermore, in the USA, to criticize Israel is antisemitic - an exercise of neo-nazism. Taboo? It is extremely taboo to criticize Israel, and its backing philosophy: Zionism. Even when an Israeli Zionist Jew, Noam Chomsky criticizes Israel, he is a "neo-nazi"!
So yes, while many things in the USA work correctly (e.g. I can say "George W Bush is an idiot".) - when it comes to Israel, Zionism, Jews - well those are for some irrational reason, above critique no matter how true, just, and needed.
The editors should have caught the use of the word "mutation," which is misused in this article. A mutation by definition is a genetic deviance which is only passed down through generation. Mutations cannot occur in the span of one lifetime. For example, are we to call all those college basketball players mutants because they can make free throws with about a 80-90% success rate when the average Joe can only make aobut 10-20%? No, this is fine tuning the muscles in which they were born with... Example 2... many guitar players have what would appear to be "mutated" hands when actually it is a buildup of callus on their (generally left) hand.
-----
Well, on the topic, I think that this is odd. How can those little kids use thumbs just as well as their fingers? Oh well, shows the power of people to adapt.
Ever seen a white comedian cracking jokes about black, asian or jewish people? How about black or asian (I know they're rare) comedians laughing about how white people walk or talk?
It's a double standard that will not go away.
I suppose I'm a racist for even mentioning it.
But it just gets to be annoying that if I ask someone politely to turn down their radio (as I would to any dumbass that is blasting it too loud at 7:30am) I get looked at as though I'm specifically targeting them due to race.
If someone asked me to turn my music down I wouldn't instantly jump to the conclusion and say 'is it because I'm white?'
It filters all the way down to the fact that if you specifically target inspecting arab nationals before they board a plane because that is the nationality of the terrorist attackers that you are being a racist state. I guess they should be focusing on black old ladies in wheelchairs instead huh?
If the terrorists were bald white geeky guys I wouldn't be offended if I was asked to be checked before getting on a plane (that is of course if I was bald white and geeky, which I'm not, I'm more like a mix between Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson, but that's beyond the point ;) ).
...for the "No Shit" file.
In other news...
Studies show that gymnasts are more flexible!
Ya know... There is a saying... If the letters PhD appear after a person's name, that person will remain outdoors even after it's started raining.
Thanks for proving my point.
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At best this is a learned response. It is definitely NOT a mutation. I suppost "people learn to use thums more" is not as headline grabbing as "video games cause mutation". Junk science and junk journalism.
The Israelis actively target civilians and they always have, but the US supports this particular terrorist government. Just like the South African army of old their soldiers are trained and encouraged to shoot civilians; you also do not go after a single Palestinian dissident with helicopter gunships unless it is your express intention to kill everyone in the area. The Palestinians are fighting a vastly better equipped enemy and they therefore carry out whatever military operations they can against their enemy's supporters.
The WTC, Pentagon and White House were all legitimate military targets. The US and Nato would call the civilian casualties collateral damage if it was their military operation.
Your statements regarding going after the country, its citizens and the family of someone you label as a terrorist merely shows your callous disregard for human life. By your logic Al-Qaida's operation against the US was completely justified. By the same logic the Palestinians are only doing what's right if they attack anyone and everyone associated with the Israelis or their government. Or is this yet another case of it's OK to kill people as long as they aren't Americans or Jews? As the Israelis say, they're only Arabs they're killing.
The IRA could perhaps be called terrorists, but their behaviour was little different from the UK government that happily tortured and murdered Irish civilians.
While I disagree with the wanton murder of civilians, when you're in the position of the Palestinians, the black people of South Africa or any of numerous other groups fighting against oppression, you know that they will in all likelihood murder you, your family and friends anyway so you fight back any way you can. Unfortunately innocent people end up dying. I know, some of my friends died in ANC bomb attacks in the 80s in South Africa. Our old government like the Israeli government was composed of murderous scum who had to be stopped and it can be hard to tell who is and isn't on their side when you're desperately fighting for your life.
And lets not forget that the US covertly supported the old SA government because they were anti-communist. By their own definition the US government sponsors terrorism and oppression.
Nothing is ever as simple as some would have us believe.
I agree it was exactly like the terrorism carried out in Afghanistan by the US government and in Palestine by the Israeli government.
Oh hang on I forgot, those were just Arab children which hardly counts.
The soldiers of Al-Qaeda may be misguided, they may even be insane (as anyone fanatically patriotic generally is), but on Sept 11 they carried out a military operation against valid military targets - White House and Pentagon are obvious, but the WTC housed significant communications equipment among other things and was therefore also a military target - there was of course collateral damage as the US call it, i.e. the unnecessary death of ordinary civilians. No-one screams and whines when these are Arabs in Israel or Afghanistan of course.
The US likes to act high and mighty, but it carries out more than its fair share of slaughter around the world so don't act all lilly white innocent with me.
So you're the guy Uncle Sam's been aiming the propaganda at all these years. Its nice to know it hasn't all been wasted.
Welcome to GNU/RMS' world!
--
I am Jack's username
I agree it was exactly like the terrorism carried out in Afghanistan by the US government
The Afghanistani government had almost a month to hand over the terrorists and disband the terrorist training camps, to head off coalition action. They did neither. And I'm still waiting for the first shred of evidence that USA delberately targetted civilians, whereas terrorists nearly always do so.
The palestinians are the fathers and mothers of terrorism. Thier policies are the direct cause of their problems. They had the best chance they could ever expect to resolve their issues, get a Palestinian state, get Israel to withdraw from 97% of the land they took (in self-defense) in '67 - and they turned it down. Why? Because that agreeement still would have left an Israel in existence, which is against the PLO charter and not tolerable to the Palestinians. It's a same their people pay for the evil of their leaders, but it IS their leaders who have borught this on them.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
anyone who causes people to be dead with no chance of surrender.
>> It's a same their people pay for the evil of their leaders, but it IS their leaders who have borught this on them.
Funny. That seems to be Bin Laden's attitude as well.
Bin Laden sees himself as fighting against, amongst other things:
American's support of the Israeli occupation of Palestine
Israel's war of terror against Palestinian civilians
America's military occupation of Saudi Arabia
Funny. That seems to be Bin Laden's attitude as well.
Your attempts to lend legitimacy to Bin Laden are pathetic. If you can't see the difference, I'm glad I don't have to deal with you.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
Apparently, you're oblivious to the irony of your comments so I'll spell it out for you.
Your "Afghanis must pay the price for their leaders' actions" attitude is EXACTLY the same as Bin Laden's "Americans must pay the price for their leaders' actions" attitude.
Since Bin Laden's attitude is obviously illegitimate, maybe you should reconsider your own and realize that innocent people, Afghani or American, should never "pay the price" for their leaders' actions.
An outfit that intentionally targets civilians is miles away from one that goes after combatants but also hits civilians, as an unintended consequence, as inevitably happens. The first are scum who are to be eliminated without mercy or regret. The second is anyone who ever fought a war.
To maintain that these are equivalent is idiocy.
And sometimes war is inevitable. Was the world to just bend over to the Nazis, because if we killed any German civilians while fighting the Nazis, we would be "as bad as them"? NONSENSE. Chamberlain showed the wrong way to deal that ilk; Churchill showed the right way.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody