Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft vs. Apple's "Thunder"
jaymzter writes "Cnet has an interesting article on Microsoft's attempt to steal the thunder from the upcoming Macworld show, and also to slap Apple down for not showing enough gratitude. What's really interesting, is that Microsoft supposedly helped Apple 'fix' Mac OS X, and that Microsoft doesn't think Apple is pushing Mac OS X hard enough. Oh, the tangled webs we weave." Strange story. Basically its a battle of PR.
Just saw a commercial about how much more "intuative" OSX is than Windows. Apple's running these commercials all the time. They're definatly pushing it hard.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
Microsoft supposedly helped Apple 'fix' OSX
Did I miss this Slashdot article?
Whats the story behind this? Link to a CNET or Mac rumor site?
What a joke, not only are they pushing it, they have annoying ads. I think that THIS comic sums it up really well.
RonB
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
PR is relations with the public. Manipulation is when something is falsely influenced or pushed. This is manipulation. Making OSX seem strong makes Microsoft look less like a monopoly, without actually having to take on the real competition publicly (read real competition as "BSD, Linux, (and maybe OpenBeOS someday)") which would make the public actually aware of these options.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Its one to submit a few spelling mistakes as patches. Its something else when the patch is critical.
Its interesting to note that no information about the fixes was given. Must mean that they were insignificant.
1;
Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
Wel, if MS helped Apple "fix" OS X, then how come WinXP was such garbage? couldn't they "fix" their own software too?
This on the heels of MS claiming ownership of parts of OpenGL. Sheesh.
Is it me, or is Microsoft acting like an overlooked younger sibling?
The sooner MS and Apple get out of the sheets with each other, the better. I bought my 3-year-old an OS-X iMac, and it is a wonderful system... except for the preinstalled MS Internet Explorer, which just plain sucks on the Mac.
I am looking forward to OS 10.2, mostly because of CUPS. I have a printer I want to connect to my daughter's iMac that doesn't work with the current OS-X version, but works great with CUPS. Whoopie for standards?
I am not saying that I have some inside angle on what is coming from the MWNY keynote. But, why will the people interested in the keynote care about these MS announcements? I suppose there might be some, but they are hardly compelling. I already don't care, and I haven't even seen the keynote yet. Even if the keynote is only about Jaguar, it will still be really cool. Looking forward to it...
Boom Shanka
Maybe it's just me, but i find it rather strange that microsoft would ever dream of "fixing" someone elses operating system. Especially when the only thing they could gain was a few million sales of office X. Sure sure, that's still money (and a lot i might add), but knowing microsofts tactics, I still find this VERY hard to believe.
Now it's time for microsoft to start picking on apple again... well, at least it will focus their attention off the linux community for a little while.
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
It's too bad that most of those people in the switcher commercials seem to be retards anyway. Great Job Apple, yet once again you've managed to make Mac Users seem like total idiots.
Unless Gates lays a smackdown on Jobs during the keynote I doubt M$ is going to be able steal any of Apples thunder .. especially not be releasing 'new' products that Apple has been selling for years.
...why MS would feel even slightly threatened by this.
The Mac has 5 percent of the market. What's there to be afraid of? True, it's a lucrative 5 percent, and OSX has mindshare far beyond its marketshare, but still. Do they really see it as this much of a threat?
What do they want, a monopoly?
You catch enchiladas by picking them up behind the head and holding them underwater until they don't kick anymore -VeGas
Gee... if Office X isn't selling well it couldn't the $500 price tag? Apple should just arrange a licensing deal with Microsoft to pre-install Word on all new macs. Everyone wins...
> "What does $150 million buy you? It doesn't buy you eternal gratitude."
;)
Shit, thats a great quote. Especially considering MS poured the money in for purely (mostly, whatever) selfish reasons - we can assume the DOJ trial would look much different today had MS not participated in the 'wonton act of goodwill for which Apple should have eternal gratitude'.
"Old man yells at systemd"
- Apple doesn't promote Mac OS X enough. Fewer people shift to the platform than Microsoft would like. Microsoft Office for OS X doesn't sell as many copies as they wanted. Microsoft is pissed.
- Apple puts considerable effort into the next version of OS X, code-named Jaguar. New features are added that make competition-obsessed Microsoft nervous. Microsoft is pissed.
Microsoft is pissed if Apple doesn't promote OS X enough. Microsoft is pissed if Apple develops OS X too much or advertises the platform too aggressively. (And what flavour of nuts will Microsoft go if Apple launches an OS-specific ad campaign?) Apple can't win, so they have nothing to lose.Why is this a story ?
Do we really need to know whats going on behind the closed doors in Apple and M$ ?
Yes, I am angry. Anybody would be, if their "Aliens Versus Predator Movie coming out next year directed by Paul Anderson who also directed Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat, Event Horizon, Soldier etc" contribution were rejected by the over zealous "We dont care about no Aliens Versus Predator - lets talk about PR Battles in Apple and M$" Editors.
Rapid Nirvana
I was gonna go for the first post, but I decided against it in favor of posting something half-way intelligent.
In my opinion, OSX is hands down the best OS for someone who does not mind spending money on an operating system and possibly a good amount more on hardware... Software is not really an issue, there are plenty of freeware packages native to OSX, and if you don't like them, run a window manager and your favorite *NIX apps...
I think Microsoft recognizes OSX as a superior OS compared with the likes of XP and will do just about anything to either discredit Apple, or claim that somehow they are responsible for it being so great. I'm not sure what they're trying to achieve... Can really picture this happening?:
Tincan Billy: Hey, you know OSX, the OS from Apple that people are so excited about?
Fishbone Willy: Yeah, what about it?
Tincan Billy: Well, it turns out that Microsoft has got this thing code-named Corona....
Fishbone Willy: Like the beer?
Tincan Billy:I'm not sure, but whatever it is, I'm going to stop using OSX right away!!!
Fishbone Willy: Sounds like a safe plan...
Cloud City Digital: DVD Production at its cheapest/finest
"OS X is doing very, very well," said Phil Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of worldwide marketing. "We were certainly more aggressive than Microsoft has ever been in making an operating system in making sure we built something we could move our whole market over to in a very short time."
Well of course it is doing very well. Whenever someone wishes to upgrade their current machine to a newer Mac, they have no choice but to get OSX with it. When a company controls both the hardware and the software they control what the user gets as soon as they decide to upgrade.
Microsoft could only wish to control the hardware and the software. Then whenever you wanted a faster computer, you would have to upgrade also to the newest version of Windows. So in theory if MS was like Apple in this respect, then I suppose WinXP would be 20% of the Windows user base, especially when many of the big businesses buy new computers within the next two to three years.
Could this be a sign that MS is getting a bit nervous about OS X and its potential to infiltrate their corporate and home markets?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
They own news.com, but it's a redirect to news.com.com which they prefer? What's wrong with news.cnet.com? Another redirect to that stupid com.com website.
did anyone else notice the microsoft stock dropping more than apples? another thing, didn't microsoft say they would start porting their games to the mac also?
"an eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind"
Give me a freakin' break!
Gratitude, uh sure, got it right here on the end of my middle finger. Let's see, MS has repeatedly fscked Apple at every turn, stolen code from Apple, and used strong arm tactics to get their way. Does anyone out there think that $150M loan deal to Apple (which was a big profit for MS) did anything more than buy time for MS by propping up Apple? And we should believe that MS knows more about OSX than Apple? Pardon me while I gag on that nonsense. OSX comes out of the NextStep OS, BSD, and other Apple developed code. Where the heck was MS in any of that?
Ultimate gratitude: MS ought to be kissing Apple's ass for keeping the Feds off of them this long. Were it not for Apple's meager sales, the anti-trust case against MS would have been a done deal long ago.
From the article:
... oh wait! I know: EVERYONE because that's what the freaking ads say! Begs the question whether this is political correctness gone amok or if the author of the C-net article is just plain stupid. :)
Some of those [Switch] TV ads could be interpreted as direct attacks against Windows or Microsoft.
You think? Who would have thought those ads were actually to get people to switch to Apple by directly saying that Macintosh machines are better
The Anti-Blog
Releasing OSX for x86 would most certainly kill Apple's hardware business. However, if they could convince Dell to sell Dell branded Apple machines, they'd gain a ton of marketshare.
Dell's acheived the holy grail of advertising. When most hear the words "new computer", they think Dell. If Dell offered a choice of OSX or Windows when buying a machine, it most certainly would be good for Apple. Dell's advertising campaigns are hugely successful, despite my overwhelming hatred for that "Dude, you're getting a Dell" guy.
By doing something like this, Apple maintains their hardware business, AND gets a major pc manufacturer to sell products that run OSX.
Need Free Juniper/NetScreen Support? JuniperForum
"There's no doubt that Microsoft is going to try and play catch up with Apple,"
...
Since when is Microsoft playing catch up with Apple? Last time I checked, Apple was the one running ads telling people to switch _from_ windows _to_ mac. Not that it has anything to do with quality, I think (flamebait coming) that most people will agree that, as far as an OS goes, MacOS is well ahead of XP. Neither of them are <religious statement> in the same league as debian<religious statement> however
This is just the beginning of what is sure to be a long battle between Microsoft and the MPEG4 supporting companies. Microsoft will push WM formats harder than anything they've done since bringing out IE -- especially if the future of the consumer PC really turns out to be as a media server. If MPEG4 becomes the audio/video/media standard, then Windows as a consumer OS may be in trouble. Gates knows (and fears) this for sure.
Instead of whining about Apple's lack of OS X push, i'd like to hear what that rep thinks Apple could do better, because, how I see it, apple is betting everything on OS X, advertising like mad, and converting hordes to it's platform... How much could it improve?
Sales of Office X != OS X popularity
Suck it up.
This whole nonsense about Apple making deals that have come as a surprise to M$ execs...it's hard when you have to swallow your own m.o., isn't it?
If the people at OpenOffice.org hurry up and relase a stable Quartz version of OpenOffice.org for the Mac, they'll be in a perfect position to take the Mac office suite market if/when Microsoft bails out.
And both of them should show more appreciation to Xerox PARC.
Late last year, Apple cut a deal whereby Netscape took over the default homepage for Macs.
Er, the default home page for the free Microsoft Internet Explorer that Microsoft wrote and Microsoft gave for free to Apple is a Netscape web page?
Evil or not, I can understand how they'd be a bit pissed about that...
**cough** You mean the interface Apple stole from Xerox Parc? **cough**
Ever feel like you are driving the getaway car?
"As a policy, Microsoft rarely speaks out against partners. Even when bugs in Mac OS X hampered the release of Office v. X, MacBU took the heat for product delays rather than blaming Apple."
Well, there's a brilliant piece of spindoctoring! "We've screwed up so much in the past that nobody would believe us if we blamed someone else for something that didn't work" suddenly becomes "We're such a noble company we'll take the flak to protect our allies." Masterful.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
As for Microsoft's opinion that Apple isn't pushing Mac OS X hard enough? Well, that just sounds like a software company's opinion of a hardware company. Apple's shipping machines with Mac OS X as the default OS and has made plenty of announcements about the sunsetting of Classic Mac OS. Apple's money comes from selling machines, so that's all they need to do.
And how does Microsoft intend to "steal Apple's thunder?" By simply by making announcements of its own versions of what Apple has been doing with tremendous success for years. Movie trailers will continue to be in QuickTime format, MPEG-4 is still QuickTime, and Apple will continue to sell 802.11b harware in addition to their robust and easy-to-use software.
If Bill thinks he's going to lead the game, he'd better try to get out in front on a thing or two.
Could this be M$'s new slogan?
--
If you don't have anything nice to say, shut up you stupid prick.
I mean I have nothing against Apple products, but it seems to me that their latest commercials are saying "I was to stupid to use a windows machine so I bought a shiny computer with pretty colors." Personally if I was an Apple user I'd be insulted by the commercials, but then again I'm not one.
Keep Austin Weird!
I hate when Apple ads state that "all" PC user know what the BSOD is. My PC has NEVER had a BSOD - kernel panic maybe but not the BSOD. Kinda make me feel like Apple's marketing department doesn't have a clue. They should say that all WINDOWS users know the BSOD.
My other car is a motorcycle!
This is the part I can't get over. Apple isn't "showing a lot of gratitude" towards the behemoth that seems to endlessly conspire to keep their margins high and their products crappy. I also appreciate that this was said by someone "who wished to remain anonymous". Let's hope he didn't communicate this via email.
blarg.
Admittedly, most of my writing has been text based. I also have AbiWord set up under XDarwin/XFree86 if I need it (I'm waiting to try OpenOffice, as soon as goes from Developers build to beta). I've considered AppleWorks. And I have Office under OS 9 if I'm desperate.
I can't justify spending $270 for an upgrade for this. I never used Office enough to warrant those sort of numbers.
"Apple maintains their hardware business"...
Why do you believe this? Dell lives on razor thin margins and is eating Gateway alive in the market. IBM has left the home market. Compaq was swallowed by HP. In short, the X86 market is consolidating.
How is Dell going to allow Apple to make hardware, especially with Apple's historical margins? It would be worse than the Mac clones saga ever was and much faster to boot.
Depending on how long it looks like 10.2 is going to take, you might want install Fink and get CUPS that way (http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package.php/cups)
Apple bought the rights to the interface from Xerox. Just like msft "bought" the rights to the Apple user interface.
You could say msft stole the interface. But it was all perfectly legal. Their lawyers were smarter than Apple's were. Apple sued, Microsoft won.
Hmm.. maybe to you real people talking about their experiences with PCs as opposed to Macs could be considered spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. To me, it's not even close to FUD.
"In years past Apple wasn't running commercials tarrgetting Microsoft."
True. It's kinda hard not to eventually get around to targeting Microsoft, when they have an operating system monopoly, and are therefore your only competitor. It's not exactly like the goliath Apple is getting ready to stomp on lowly Microsoft. ;-)
"If you want to think so..."
It's not that I want to think so, it's that the timing and content of Microsoft's announcements seems to be aimed squarely at disrupting Apple's Macworld announcements. Does it seem coincidental to you?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
The article seems to portray the idea that Microsoft is unhappy with Office v. X's sales performance and is blaming Apple for not marketing OS 10 enough.
Well, I think I may have another theory on why Office isn't selling very well: $459.95. While the new version of Office is nice and quite pretty I still don't see it warranting almost half a grand. I can't think of the last time I ever used Word for anything more than writing my resume and the occasional label and envelope printing. AppleWorks can do all that for more than one fifth the price. While it's true that Office has quite a few more features than Works it can probably get most people by.
So this is probably just good (or bad) old Microsoft marketing work. Some people will believe whatever they read, despite their mothers telling them not to.
How's this current practice different from anything Microsoft's been doing for the past 10 years?
.NET two years ago, even before they even knew what .NET really was (not sure they even know that today).
For instance, they announced
Microsoft's pre-emptive strikes against Apple come as Apple CEO Steve Jobs prepares to announce a new flat-panel iMac with a larger 17-inch liquid-crystal display and Mac OS X 10.2's readiness ahead of schedule.
OK, nothing new there. Microsoft shouldn't have a problem stealing the thunder at all, I mean those announcements aren't much of anything. Now, Steve Jobs has been known to pull some surprises from time to time, maybe MS is worrying about that...
~ now you know
It's perfectly fine for Microsoft to grouse about Office v.X sales, although they should be well-aware from their own experience with Windows 95 and later that transition to a new operating system and its applications takes time.
Mac OS X's acceptance rate is increasing, and will continue to do so as more games and general software is moved to work in OS X only. This transition will happen strongest in the businesses that use Macintosh systems, then homes, with educators last. Businesses can afford the transition and have already scheduled new systems. Homes have a mix of old and new things that Mac OS X must use, but the purchase of a new computer typically calls for a new printer to replace the ratty one.
Educators are moving very slowly to OS X client since a lot of their software for students and administrators doesn't yet run in Mac OS X. However, Mac OS X Server may have a big acceptance in their IT shops because of its NetBoot and Macintosh Manager network-based client services.
I think that Office v.X gives a lot of users a reason to switch. But $500 for an office suite, especially since AppleWorks comes installed on an iMac, is a price that only a few are willing to pay. Apple users have never really subscribed to the "upgrade annually" mentality that IT pros and home PC users have only began to shake off. Office 2000 for Macintosh works fine in the Classic environment of OS X. Why hasn't Microsoft given them a reason to switch? (One idea: MS should accept a trade-in on old original MS Office software disks--PC or Mac--for a rebate on Office v.X)
The fine line part is that Microsoft must not cut the cord on Mac Office development as lawsuits would be cut for antitrust violations faster than you can do a gaussian blur in Photoshop on a G4. Microsoft can't generate further news that shows how they can bully other companies by threatening--the current distrust by stockholders in Wall Street could lead Microsoft into a different court.
For now, however, I think MS is correct in its criticism. They aren't starving for money, but MS has been watching their revenues drop, too, and want as many dollars as the market will give them. Whether this comment from the MBU has anything to do with Apple's new aggressive marketing is a guess.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
actually apple bought it from xerox parc...they gave em a significant amount of shares in exchange but M$ did not.
Some lamebrain moderator actually modded up a *BSD is dying post.
Yeesh.
Why exactly is Microsoft going to be screwed if MPEG4 becomes an Audio/Video/Media standard?
-- office xp sales have deen dismal. is this the fault of windows xp's slow adoption rate?
-- ms has split office v.x into a number of baffling skus, such as an entourage/word combo, a word/excel combo and so on. were sales of these packages counted in the single number they're tossing around?
-- is the soho/home productivity market saturated?
-- has the sudden stop on hardware upgrade sales affected sales of os x, new macs (which all ship with os x as a default boot) and office?
-- is office v.x just not that great of a product? either in enticing sales or enticing upgraders?
It's not like Apple sold their soul to The Beast; as a corporation, they don't even have a soul to sell.
Another instance of Microsoft's confusion about the difference between people and institutions?
they should have said it can do 'more' somehow ... not just the same easier
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
I do believe that Apple can surive without anybody using Microsoft Products, I saw a few screenshots released from Apple that didn't even have the IE browser in the dock. This would be helpeful in 10.2 to raise the stakes for Microsoft to start pushing their product, has anybody ever seen an advertising from Microsoft for a Mac product, I mean Apple practically held off Microsofts DOJ's antitrust stuff, and what do they do in return, blame apple for their lack of sales. I go to OpenOffice.org, FreeOffice, all the tools that can help me view documents that are created by microsoft, so I don't have to spend 500 dollars on a stupid piece of software just becuase they say so. Oh, I also have a copy of it, just in case, although I didn't obtain it through a "legit" source :). I do believe that Microsoft will maintain market share, but that apple will be the king of mainstream "cool designs"
PARC
It's an abbreviation for Palo Alto Research Center, and thus should be in all caps.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
As MS helped Apple 5 years ago, it was nothing but truly egoistic move from oth sides. MS had to have back covered in antitrust judgement... Apple had no money to compete with the others.
And now after five years they meet at another crossroad, but Apple this time has finances and MS doesn't relly need Apple so bad.
Five years agreement was nothing but five years of growing tension between both companys. Apple has nothing to loose (at least as long MS is stealing desktops from him, and the only way to grow is to steal some desktops from MS), MS has nothing to loose (Apple Mac OS X is not their OS, "sheeesh it's Unix"). And here now is the battle of the giants. One polished and user friendly with a complete solution and the other, well it has majority of desktops. Now this battle is continuously growing from smaller disputes and smaller blows to higher and higher. It's just a matter of time when it will blow into the world.
Apple has already started battle with stoping Shake production and pushing Unix, and Unix is a long time non acomplished MS grail. Just when it seemed they will succed to diminish Unix, Linux and MacOSX crossed their path. This was the silent start of war. Pushing Office and IE or Mac OS X is just the last try to control what you don't own.
Prediction is: Both companys will throw away huge amounts of money just trying to slowly diminish the opponent. In here Apple has advantage in their own hardware, which is pushing their second line of proffit : Software, while MS has advantage in almost unlimited supply of money and lack of fair play (Apple's not much better though). This war will continue to grow with every atempt to crush opponent.
Points of survival and advantages for Apple:
1. Their own hardware running their own System where MS can barely compete. (MS could hardly start to push their own computers without loosing their best customers such as Dell..., hey would have to announce another kind of war to stat that, a hardware war)
2. Professional line of software for high end users
3. Open office could help them ditch MS, and it's free
4. Almost fanatic users, which realy believe in their computers, and will probably stay with Apple no matter what
5. Partialy cheating with Open source sympathy
Points of survival and advantages for MS:
1. Majority of desktops
2. Most used office suite
3. Terrifying amount of money
4. Corrupted officials
I'm not saying anybody is better, they both suck big time. In case my prediction would be correct, at least Linux will have more peace and options just because it's strangely somehow neutral (money basis at least). But it's definite that both competitors will dry out their money supply if they would start this battle.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
If you follow links from Microsoft's 802.11 announcement to other related articles (Toshiba's entry into Wi-Fi, and an article on Boingo), you'll eventually reach the site for Boingo, the latest Wi-Fi ISP.
:)
Go to http://www.boingo.com/ and one of the featurs of their software that they advertise is the capability to sniff out nearby APs. It looks like Sky Dayton (Founder of Earthlink) is encouraging corporate users to wardrive.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Microsoft, for example, was instrumental in helping Apple resolve problems with Mac OS X, the next-generation version of the Macintosh operating system released in March 2001.
Could this mean helping Apple resolve problems with Mac OS X being able to run MS Office?
Back in the late 80's that was the norm. Apple had to doctor the OS in order to keep existing MS programs (Word,Excel) running properly. MS was well known in the industry to play fast and loose with the Mac API. (I was privy to seeing some of this first hand, related to a product I worked on at the time.)
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view2002-07-12rl.html
Anyway, on-topic: If Microsoft lowered the price of Office X, more people would buy it. Who's going to fork up $500 when they can use other applications which are much cheaper? Not many.
The other huge difference, of course, is that Apple's PR machine usually would quash incompetent quotes like that "gratitude" thing. Oh, man. Generalissimo Jobs would have that guy's head.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
1. Treat your customers like criminals by filling your software with "product activation" to stop the 'thieves'.
2. Send flesh eating lawyers after every mom & pop business the instant it appears their licensing is out of order.
3. Refuse to fix security holes. Blame the user for being too dumb. Then, refuse to give people the ability to remove defective/insecure software.
4. Cater to the content pimps (RIAA, MPAA etc..) and promise a new version of your system whose only benefit is to further limit how people can user their computer.
5. etc....
Result: My next computer will be a mac.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
this begs the question, mac osXP ?
Microsoft is upset Apple isn't pushing a Pro Unix/Linux OS more? interesting.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Now that people are finally taking Macs seriously (thanks to OS X), it really looks like the whole OS war is going to be far more interesting. People are losing faith in Microsoft and looking into alternatives, Apple's OS X is a mighty fine operating system, and all the while other alternative operating systems like Linux are gaining more and more market share and are poised to break into the desktop market.
I really think this is great. For a while I was worried about all this DRM shit that Microsoft is obsessed with, but it's looking like we (the consumers) will finally have other viable choices besides bending over and taking it up the ass from the MS empire.
I don't think people really understand the influence of PR firms in the news media. Microsoft employs several big PR firms to put the Microsoft line out, and are quite successful at planting stories in the mainstream media. Did you ever wonder why, after Microsoft introduces a new feature, new product, or a new initiative, an 'independent' news story pops up out of nowhere at exactly the right time to back up Microsoft's efforts? Well, that's likely the work of a PR firm right there.
That being said, MS often screws up it's own efforts, and this latest OS X adoption complaint is a prime example. Do you really think MS went into making Office v.X without someone checking to see what Apple estimated the adoption rate was? And now they are shocked and disappointed with that rate being exactly on target?
I can see the PR firms banging their collective heads on the table, wishing MS management would keep its' big mouth shut. I'm sure the MS people believe that they can prod Apple into better marketing efforts for OS X, but in effect they're creating more bad blood between Apple and MS, and it can only tick off customers. Don't confuse this latest salvo a PR effort. It's just another example of Microsoft's companywide arrogance.
So now I'm going to go with Linux and OpenOffice, soon as I can find a good replacement for... some program for making b'day, etc. cards.
note: I do not normally refer to MS as M$, but in this instance I thought it was appropriate ;-)
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
A MacCentral article says ...the Wall Street Journal has published a scathing article about the state of Mac OS X adoption and how it has affected some Mac software publishers -- chief among them Microsoft Corp.
The article also has some good quotes from Apple and mentions Corel and Adobe.
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
Mac clones nearly killed Apple. They were generally cheaper and faster than Apple's machines. It was a great win for consumers, but Apple lost a ton of money from it. OS marketshare means jack when 95% of your revenue comes from hardware that's being constantly undercut by competitors*.
If the OSX and Windows Dell machines were priced similarily, I think most people would buy the Windows ones anyway. No matter how much advertising Apple does, it's going to take a LONG time to break the current "Macs suck, they have no software, I've never really used one but I know they suck" mentality a lot of people have.
The only way Apple could survive licensing OS X to Dell would be converting from their current high-margin hardware business to selling just cheap software licenses, like MS. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Jobs likes making cool computers too much. And I shudder to think what the stock would do when they announce that they are laying off their entire hardware division and restructuring 70% of the company so that they can fight an uphill battle with MS on x86 PCs.
* I don't consider Windows PCs competitors all that much, not as much as the Mac clone manufacturers were, at least. Apple mainly sells computers to people who want to run Mac OS, and only Mac OS. Most of Apple's customers wouldn't even consider buying a Windows-based machine. Without the clones, Apple has no real competition.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
If they try to kill apple with PR AND linux with Palladium, where are they gonna steal their ideas from????? --Said the evil fat funky Dr.Space monkey
that they're marketing to dummies....you're all wrong (and thinskinned or defensive, or both).
I am a sysadmin, and I bought my first Mac recently, simply because I don't want to fuss around at home with my limited amount of time there anyway, and now I don't HAVE to as often.
Its often hard to tell what's really going on behind the public facade that PR agencies make...
But anytime Microsoft starts getting aggressive at Apple, that's good news.
Means Apple really is executing well and making good inroads, and it also inflames Microsoft at a time while it is under scrutiny for anti-competitive behaviour.
"If your opponent is angry, provoke him."
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
CNET seems to have crafted more pseudo-news on the cynical premise that, when you need some quick hits, try a "Microsoft vs. Somebody" story or an "Embattled Apple" story, or, if you really want hits, a "Microsoft vs. Apple" story.
See if this sounds like a plausible timeline:
This isn't to say that it's either impossible or implausible that Microsoft would time their announcement to undercut Apple; but where's the supporting evidence for this, beyond a little anonymous insider grousing?
that mac will never grow on the desktop, and won't ever grow in server market either, but you think that the free *nix clones will continue to gather steam everywhere, especially servers (the only point I'd grant you). Sounds like you just are another GNU/Linux/anti-MS zealot under that (relatively) calm post.
Your comic is unfunny and boring. JeffK's version of your comic was much better than your comic. Also, Please stop posting a link to your shitty webpage every fscking time you post here. Fag.
Microsoft's attempt to steal the thunder from the upcoming Macworld show,
What thunder? Even Linux shows are more interesting (and they're pretty boring, I must admit).
Well, this would seem to be a pretty clear reason why Microsoft desperately needs to be split up. It's partners, competitors, whatever you they choose to call them today, can't cooperate with one branch of the beast without pissing off the other. Clearly, the OS arm and the apps arm of Microsoft need to part ways, so that partners can be partners, and competitors can be competitors.
I can see the Dell/Apple ad campaign now:
"Dude, you got to think different."
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
someone would plug software here....dude Jaguar should be here in less than. 60 days...that's not very long at all
and then watch...in a few years MS will debut a 3d shell, and claim how innovative it is then as well.....remember folks...Apple did it in big way FIRST !
I don't recall MS threatening FVWM2 for looking like '95.
Yet at the same time, I'm surprised that Apple hasn't sicced the attack lawyers on Slashdot for the funky bars on the Apple story pages.
Frankly, I hope Apple gets burned again. Going on about the evils of MS, yet smacking around theme creators? Heh.
They will, too. You know why? Macs are 'cute'. That's it. Hardware? Please. PC hardware is better, and cheaper. The OS? *shrug* There's two things called Linux and MS Windows. Between the two, you can do anything you can do on OS X, and more.
I'm surprised MS is even bothering to push against Apple. Eh, probably some slick move for the lawsuits.. "Look! We're worried! We have competition! No, no, I'm not snickering, I, uh, have a cold your honor, I was coughing."
1. Courtney Cox
2. That guy from "Whose Line Is It Anyway? (BBC Version) or alternately, the Lost Ghostbuster.
3. Victoria Jackson fron SNL
4. That doctor from E.R.
I expect to see 'Elvez' saying he switched pretty soon.
I think in both M$ and Corel's case, they expected that users would be forced to make the transition more quickly by making the upgrade indispensible (that's how microsoft does it), thus forcing everyone to upgrade their productivity software as well. In short, everyone moves, the existing userbase buys new OS X copies of office and coreldraw, and they make some easy money. But they aren't, because Apple is making the transistion as painless and therefore gradual as possible, so they don't lose customers in the process. Boo Hoo.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I don't see the big deal it it was a few bugs in the opensource stuff, it would've been fixed anyway shortly enough. However, I'm sure that if MS's eyes had seen any of Apple's propietary code, we will see some "innovation" from Redmond along the line of an existing Apple product soon then.
The article mentions some 70 fixes that the MacBU helped fix in OS X... 70 seems like such a big number when compared to the constant stream of Windoze fixes/patches/security updates that roll out of Redmond.
I'm glad that Apple actually recoginzes security problems and resolves them quickly.
As to stealing the thunder, I've only head about the not-so-exciting-things to be released at the Steve-note (17" iMacs, Jaguar's early relese, etc.)
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
-dunar
Man, you must not install software, write software, or USE software. No BSoD. WOW!
I'be had GPFs (daily for a while, and alsways at the worse time too,), BSoDs (at least monthly,)from windows 3.1 to NT 4.0 svcpk 5. Registry screw ups, re-installs when the system started to exhibit "rot".
I use Macs and while Epson printer driver support still sucks, OS X 1.0 only crashed on me ONCE on al old machine that I shouldn't even have installed it on.
Now I'm using Mac 9.1 (Beige G3/300 & iMac,) 9.2 (occasionally &,) OS X 1.x (Titanium Powerbook,) and Slackware 8.1 (x86 architecture,) and it all WORKS.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Migor is angry. Migor has identified a creature worse then the common household troll.
Migor calles them retarded mods. They are evil. They mod down insightful and informitive comments because they don't understand them, or worse, are too stupid to reconize the humor when a joke is made.
Migor is here to help. Migor will keep posting via HIS followers to waste those mod's points so real mods can mod up the good comments. If the retarded mods spend their time modding down the comments of Migor, they can not use their points modding down relevent comments.
And then, upon the day of conclusion, Migor shall eat the soul of the retarded mods. He will have a great feast, and will BBQ the souls of the retarded mods in his mighty spaceship. There will be plastic forks and spoons. There will be pasta salad. Cake will also be served.
I am NOT Migor, only a vessel through which Migor speaks.
The Internet is generally stupid
Why should Apple be promoting Microsoft Office for MacOS-X?
If Microsoft really wants Office for MacOSX to sell, they should advertise it on TV, radio and print as they do for their other product offerings.
It's a bit like expecting Mercedes to promote a luxury backseat for their cars made by some Sweedish furniture company... Microsoft should try to promote their own product and not expect Apple to do it for them - unless they are explicitly contracted to do it.
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
So that's two new Apple's and two used Windoze boxes. Meaning profit for Apple and another two used Windoze boxes on eBay to hurt MS and Dell's profits.
But really why I say that MS should worry is because everyone in the office loves my new Mac, even the CIO. People are impressed at how much the Mac can do and how much better it is than a Windows box. Apple just needs to beat the bad image that their floundering years without Jobs caused them. Once people give them a chance, they're incredibly impressed. BTW, the CIO is getting a new TiBook next week.
I think Apple is on to something here with a great OS and innovative products. I can't wait to see what they come up with this week at Mac World.
This could be a case there the Office v.X people are trying to justify their poor sales performance but I doubt it. I think MS sees OSX as a threat and they are gearing up for big fall out with Apple.
This purported article was a flame troll based on M$ trying to complain that the industry (who's?) isn't keeping up with M$ Windows.
Apple is in the hardware business. They give away the OS of their choice (X with 9.x for compatibility,) on the machines they make and sell.
M$ is in the coercion business.
To OEMs: "Sell your PCs with the latest version of Windows... Or else watch you proces hit the ceiling and your sales go through the floor..."
To businesses: "Upgrade to the latest version of Office, or kiss your data goodbye..."
Consumers buy the hardware and the OS is not an option in either case. Choice doesn't exist.
At least Apple uses pretty candy-colored/flavored lubricated condoms. M$ just rams it up the end-user's poop chute.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Oh man, it is soooo funny that the artist of Penny Arcade has to come to slashdot and post his links more than twice to get anybody to read them. Penny arcade is the worst cominc on the net, JeffK did it better.
I'm sick of Apple's stupid naming convention. "Thunder", "Rhapsody", "Copeland", etc.
I think their next product releases should be called:
Apple "Sauce"
Apple "Jacks"
Apple "Yapple Dapple"
This has always worked for me......Find someone to buy you an Academic Copy. This a fully-functioning (non-pirated, registered) copy and can be had for under 2 benjamins. PLUS, unlike pirated copies, this one will allow updating and won't freeze you out when you go to upgrade.
What bothers me most about this article is that the author implies that Apple owes M$ gratitude for "helping" them out in the past. I'm sorry but it's entirely too obvious that the only reason Microsoft has ever helped Apple was to make sure that they had a competitor to point to and say "we're not a monopoly, see? People can buy Macs if they don't like Windows."
And if MS really did help Apple fix "bugs" in the OS that allowed them to run Office, it was again only for their gain. Apple cannot be blamed for the lack of sales on Office Mac. Seriously, if I had a Windows box I wouldn't even pay the $500 MS wants for office Mac. That's just ridiculous considering it comes bundled with a new PC.
CNet: if you really want to be a respected new outlet, you really need to stop producing MS FUD. This is a disgrace to the media in general and worth only of a publication like the National Enquirer.
MS? They stick with their ludicrously overpriced product (virtually unchanged since it's conception), start pointing fingers, spreading FUD and making threats.
Braindead greedy crooks.
Don't get me wrong!
Back in the late 80's that was the norm. Apple had to doctor the OS in order to keep existing MS programs (Word,Excel) running properly. MS was well known in the industry to play fast and loose with the Mac API.
Sheesh, you make this sound like it was some Microsoft problem. EVERYONE had to "play fast and loose" with the Mac API because the APIs were brain damaged. It's not entirely Apple's fault, since there was so much momentum behind them, and after all, they were pretty much the first APIs made for GUIs.
But let's not forget the prior to OS/X the Macintosh APIs were utter crapola.
I question the morality (and technical sanity) of anyone who supports the Wintel monoloth.
20% market share ? are you on crack ? even the register.co.uk quotes 2.4% apples market share
i agree with the above in why wont apple users realise the fact that more people would rather use anything else but a mac if you group win & linux together they claim the 97.5% of the worldwide market, so i have no idea where you get your 20% claims, of course if you could provide us with sources for your outrageous claims and post that with your +1 bonus instead of the hot air you spout now, people might change their views,
until then we deem you either misinformed or just plain a liar
A.C
4 Real
Do you think that M$ hasn't thought about creating a UNIX GUI for thier own products? This would solve a few DOJ problems don't you think. Cheap dog food testing in the works.
Problem is the orgianl version of IE for OS X had this funny drawing bug (only program that it). Where you would click on a page and sometime it would display NOTHING. If you highlighted the the page text would appear... and if you where able to scroll up and down on the page the redrawn area would then show the graphics or text and what not.
MS made an update for IE a few months later, that "fixed" the problem. Then release a final version of IE for OS X. Today IE for os x stands at 5.2.1 and the problem still exist. No other program on OS X has this problem. Thats why it sucks.
... because when OS X kernel panics, it just barfs text straight to the screen, right over the graphical desktop. If you've ever seen SunOS or Solaris console messages tromp over the X-Windows display, you know what I'm talking about.
But apple has a crappy (IMHO) program called AppleWorks preinstalled on all iBooks, iMacs and eMac. Since these are for the average user and Office is for the "Pro" user.
If MS did want to sell more copies of Office for Mac OS X they really do need to look at the price tag. It is hard to justify spending $300-$500 for a word processor and email app. Lets face it most people use office for word... and people seem to like Entourage better than Mail.app
If you consider the Mac users as graphics pro's how often do they need Power Point or Excel? Not that often. Its more of a thow in. Thus your really paying all that money for a word processor and an email program.
I wouldn't mind being able to buy office when I buy an new mac for lets say half the price... i would rather stick with office running in classic otherwise.
History orientation: ..."
Back then, Microsoft was IBM's toy. Apple (mistakenly) never perceived them to be as ruthless and manipulative as they were.
Before the launch of the Mac, Steve Jobs said something to the effect of:
"There are two major technical milestones in our industry."
*slide of Apple II*
"The Apple II computer."
*slide of IBM PC*
"And the IBM PC. We plan on launching the next great mile stone
Anyways, it goes to show that "1984" was targeted at IBM, and not M$FT.
MacCentral's coverage included this comment from Phil Schiller; about time someone clues MS into the fact that their prices are rediculous. You are selling consumer-level software for professional-level prices! " Browne's comments drew criticism from Apple's senior vice president of worldwide product marketing, Phil Schiller. Schiller told the Wall Street Journal that Microsoft's concerns are 'very, very misplaced' and suggested that the $499 price tag of Office may be a reason why Microsoft's sales are sluggish."
"Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
do you know what you just said?
First you stated MS is ahead of apple... then you said Mac OS was better than XP.
I think the point of the story about MS catching up has to do with MS not having the "cool" stuff apple does.
Not that I really care but why is debian better than OS X, XP, FreeBSD or some other Linux distro ?
Oddly enought gates has little to fear at the rate its going MPEG-4 will hang itself... even if its better than WMP
Beta was better than VHS... VHS was cheap.
what does "modded down" mean?
Sales of Office X == Office v. X price tag
MS is known to cut prices to win... $300-$500 dollars for Office? Hmmmm. Thats saying something.
Darwin already runs on a specific x86 configuration. The five-year agreement with Microsoft expires next month. NeXt was already cross-platform from the git-go. Don't be surprised if Steve Jobs steps onto a stage within the next six months to a year, demos the latest version of MacOS X and says, "Oh...by the way... one more thing..." ...And takes the wraps off the Apple-branded x86 box on which the demo was running and announces the specs that'll allow you to build your own (hell, I bet Bill has already seen a prototype).
With Palladium and the new licensing scheme and Judge Kollar-Kotelli's impending ruling, there's going to be lots of turbulence ahead for the Redmond gang. And it's about damned time!
MS hasn't figured out its the price tag... If you think about it the world see Mac OS as a platform for the graphics art people and not the bus world. What does that mean to MS? Well users will first update adobe products and other graphics art apps... which does cost some money...
Go to amazon.com look up the price of Adobe Photoshp 7.0 (584.99) then look at the upgrade price (149.00)
Now office Office v. X (464.99) upgrade price (264.99)
Now think about what a grapics pro would use more Photoshop or Office... now think about what most home users use office for (assume a graphic pro office use mimics that of a normal home user... not working from home). They use Word, and use powerpoint and excel from time to time.
What is MS problem? The price tag.
If there is an insufficient market to continue development of Office for OS X, then Apple should buy Office for OS X from MS. I doubt that MS would willingly do so, of course. This is what I'd hoped the anti-trust case would yield. Not only would Apple own/license Office but it and MS would sign a binding agreement on compatiability. Pleasant dreams!
Eirik
The only application that is missing from OSX is a decent Office clone - and that's just because OpenOffice OSX isn't quite here yet (it's coming). Of course MS feel like their back is against the wall. They can't fight Apple over ease of use, and they can't exclusively lock the vendors into Windows only pre-installs. The BSD core of OSX shows Win2K/XP to be the hack that it is, and the windows desktop is feeling tired and glitchy. Mozilla OSX is as good as IE OSX too (some would say better). The only weapon they have against Apple is the threat of withdrawing Office.
I don't use office now, and I don't care to use it in the future. I wonder how many OSX users are really bothered...
'Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.' - George Gordon
hmmm... Maybe Bill's nervous because he heard of Apple is releasing X for x86??? Bill hears the roar of Xboots, just like Germany marching on Poland.
Someone, please shake me from this wide-awake nightmare.
'wanton' means wild, reckless, etc.
'wonton' means a chinese ravioli-like meal.
Spelling & Grammar Nazis - bringing intelligence to the Slashdot moron community whether they like it or not!
Hey, thanks for not only linking the article, but also linking cnet. With this great hint, I was all by myself able to fill in the missing links to macworld, apple, Microsoft, and Mac OS X. Someday, maybe this stuff will be easy enough for new users to figure out all on their own.
hehe
Yet another MYTH.
Apple did not steal the UI from PARC. They invented it themselves.
They DID use some Xerox technology, for which Xerox was very handsomly paid.
The claim that Apple stole the Xerox parc is the standard claim of windows bigots who don't want ot face up to the fact that windows is a cheap mac ripoff. It has no basis in fact.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
1. I'm not an anonymous coward, I just hate SPAM!
2. Apple was NOT 'bailed out by Microsoft' 5 years ago as many here seem to think. The monies that were paid were to settle lawsuits filed by Apple against Microsoft as well as to make Micorosft look good to the FTC and the DOJ. I'm a stockholder and have known Apple financials for over a decade. They have NEVER been in debt as long as I've held shares and have ALWAYS had cash reserves...currently at $4.31 billion! http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/aapl.html
3. Microsoft is pissy because they're little truce with Apple is about to end and Apple once again could become a very annoying stinging insect that may bring Microsoft's whole delicate antitrust settlements to a raging torent.
4. Neither Apple, nor anyone else needs MS Office for anything unless they were stupid enough to setup an Exchange server. AppleWorks, OpenOffice and StarOffice do everything that MS Office does, except PIM. And there are plenty of better PIM apps than Entourage or Outlook...GACK! Hell, even MS is trying to figure out how to get rid of Exchange!
5. Mac OS X will be or at least has the potential to be the best desktop operating system on the market as well as the best server operating system on the market. It's not quite there yet, as I have remarked to many of my friends. It's not quite Unix and it's not quite MacOS, but in a couple more revisions it has the potential to be the best of both, and a lot sooner than ANY Linux distro. For desktop applications, Linux still has a long way to go. (I'm sorry GIMP doesn't hold a candle to Photoshop for image editing)
6. Let's remember to compare, or jeer, like things. When Microsoft and Apple are being compared, or jeered, let's stick to software and OS issues. Yes, Apple sells hardware. Yes, it is typically slightly more expensive when compared feature-for-feature with comparable x86 configurations. But Microsoft's only hardware products worth a damn to date are the IntelliMouse Explorer and the Xbox. And who needs a mouse with more buttons than a digital camera! 3, Bill, just 3 will do! When/If Apple ever releases an Xbox competitor and finally ships a multi-button mouse (Steve, any day now would be good!) then throw the hardware angle in.
That's all I can think of after reading most of the posts...my head hurts....there's more I'd like to say, but I figure that ought to be enough for this post.
Jason Lockhart
Director of Media Development and Emerging Technology
College of Engineering
Virginia Tech
If you think a macs are for the graphic artist what would program would be used more... and most valuable?
From Amazon.com
Adobe Photoshop 7.0-Mac: $584.99
Adobe Photoshop 7.0 Upgrade-Mac: $149.00
Adobe Illustrator 10.0: $444.99
Adobe Illustrator 10.0 Upgrade: $149.00
Flash MX: $464.99
Flash MX Upgrade: $199.00
Appleworks 6.2.4 Office: $79.00
Microsoft Office v. X for Mac: $464.99
Microsoft Office v. X for Mac Upgrade: $264.99
Microsoft do you see a problem? Could we also assume that the next version of Office would carry the same price tag?
The prices reflect how much it would cost to buy the product new to run on OS X. The update prices reflect how much you would have you pay to get your older version to run on OS X.
[Note: I am not a graphics artist, and I do use a Mac OS X as my daily OS, and I haven't updated.]
Microsoft didn't win. The judge threw the case out of court.
The judge was an idiot and clearly incompetant to do what he did.
They did NOT buy the UI from Apple... well, not until 1997 or so with the infamous "$150M" investment that I think also included $5-$10 Billion in private payments.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
It is OK. NT is OK. First version of X sucked. X is possibly OK now. Linux great on the server side - but sucks on the client side.
It's $500 on the Mac, and it has spyware and monopolyware built in. I can't wait until OpenOffice goes 1.0 on OS X.
It's too bad macs are more common in movies & TV shows than on people's desks. You almost never see a PC on anyone's desks in movies or TV, but macs are everywhere.
Maybe all the macs sold are props, and that's why no-one is buying Office for mac?
I make a reasonable middle-class wage by going to work and not spamming blogs with scams.
shit I'm so tired of that already
Hey jackoff..what about whistler or memphis (past) xp or win2k (both are just dumb) or longhorn (future).
oh yeah, you're an obtuse windbag, so get fucked already
WRONG.
From the Apple Switch Campaign press release, dated 10 June, 2002: "These are not actors--they're real people who have switched from PCs to Macs, telling their story in their own words," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Microsoft wouldn't be losing business if Office didn't cost so much. There are many alternatives (often even better) to the office programs. There are many shareware apps available that do the same job at fraction of the price. Just check out versiontracker or download dot com and see for yourself. But then again if Microsoft is reading this "and they are!' the shareware will not be there when you get there.
MS is stealing the Macworld thunder? This is like saying Comdex is stealing thunder from PC Expo. Microsoft actually announced some new technologies, which even still make you say "yawn... well isn't that nice..." Apple is announcing a revision (a service pack, if you only understand Windows terms) and a bigger screen. 17" at that. woo, hold on to your hats! This macworld is gonna rock! (mostly 'cause if this is all they have to show, everyone will be at the fine NY pubs getting plastered)
Apple is fine, it's just tit-for-tat pr & marketing...normal in all companies dude. Just learn what you can about the products invoved first and foremost, then begin to look at each company. Apple is a heck of a sight better than MS, you just probably don't want to admit it (defensive?).
Hmm...Office X sales are lagging...I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that Office X Upgrade was on back-order for over a month at most major software retailers after it's initial release. It might also have a certain amount of influence on upgrading to OS X...just maybe...
As for iChat/MSN Messenger...There are MUCH better alternatives out there...I use Fire, which handles ICQ, AIM, MSN, Yahoo, IRC, and Jabber. MSN Messenger was the first thing that I deleted after installing Office X...
Apple had no money to compete with the others.
Time to deal with this little piece of bum information again.
At the time of the negotiations between Apple and MS, the following things happenend:
1. Apple had US$1B (yes, billion) cash in the bank
2. MS purchased US$150M in non-voting Apple stock that they could not sell for 5 years.
3. MS told Apple to kill Quicktime - Apple said no.
4. Apple agreed to use IE as the default browser, but did not agree to remove Netscape as an optional browser.
5. MS agreed to continue development of Office for the Mac for a minimum of 5 years, and to release new, equivalent versions for Mac at the same time or earlier than for Windows.
6. Details have not been released on this item, but most insider reports I have read say that Apple found out that MS used 1000's of lines of code from Quicktime - character for character - in Windows Media Player and Apple could prove it. To avoid an ugly court battle (which Apple would win), MS licensed the code (after the fact) by paying a large lump sum payment - reports say somewhere between US$600 - 750M. There was no public release of this information.
The amount in item 1. above was cash on hand, not including physical plant, product, other assetts, etc. From even just this item, I have to believe that Apple wasn't hurting for money.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
Barf on M$.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I managed to score a (perfectly legal) copy at the MS employee store for $50 - and it is a pretty nice package. It's also really nice to not have to boot my office PC to read some attachment someone sent me.
On the other hand, I wouldn't have paid $450 either.
Clear, Dark Skies
EXCUUUUUSE ME!
How much moeny has M$ set aside to cushion the hit they are taking (or expected to take) on Xbox? A cubic BUTTLOAD more than they spent as antitrust insurance on Apple. $150million is petty cash for M$.
The REAL trouble M$ has here is that Apple owns the last remaining piece of the consumer PC pie, without wielding a monopoly-stick, a la M$, and it happens to be the most entertaining one: the digital entertainment hub.
No, wait, let me expand that to read: the digital entertainment, non-BSOD hub.
M$ faces a conundrum: the Windows franchise is petering out, Xbox is clinging marginally to it's piece of the console pie, and everything M$ touches becomes a security risk, or at least that's what people with data to secure are finding. Now, when there is little left to steal (such as Explorer and the various GPL'd code rumoured to be incorporated into Windows), they are faced with a truly competative company with the initiative to innovate, to boot.
For those who don't consider Apple competitive, please realize they've maintained their market share despite M$ monopolistic practices, and that was BEFORE OSX and the digital hub concept, as well as before the goofy execs that followed and preceeded the insanely whacky Steve jobs.
Now, with OSX and the PPC line opening up basically all software for the consumer (well, Windows under emulation and unixware that can compile under OSX) and fueling future growth, M$ is looking at the gas guage and realize they are in the middle of the desert and nearing empty. So what if M$ has poured $$ into Offive v.x? People can still run older versions in Classic mode under OSX, so why upgrade?
Now, all they have to work with is good ol' Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, only this time around, they're feeling it, rather than a-spreadin' it around.
[set gloatingOverOSX=off]
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
except people who don't want Microsoft Word/Office installed on their machines and don't want part of the purchase price of their new Mac going to Microsoft.
I bought a Mac because I was determined not to use Microsoft software ever again but I'm still not satisfied with any of the Linux desktop options.
I'm pissed off that my Mac had IE installed, particularly given that it's a Carbon app that looks like crap. After removing IE and replacing it with OmniWeb I'm pretty sure there's nothing Microsoft on the machine.
I use Appleworks, AbiWord (under X Windows) and LaTeX (TeXShop is a fantastic Cocoa LaTeX aware editor which automates the conversion of LaTeX to PDF). I don't need Microsoft Office and I don't want it.
>"There's nothing you can do with a Mac that is impossible with Windows, at least as far as I'm aware."
True. Just like there's nothing stopping you from running a marathon instead of taking a car and driving to the finish line.
The point isn't that Macs do what PCs can't - the point is that when my kids install a new game on their iMac I don't cringe wondering if I'll have to reinstall the OS again .
For servers I use Linux. For compatibility, I use W2k. For just pain-free productivity, I use a Mac.
Clear, Dark Skies
Microsoft to Exit Mac Market If Sales Continue to Lag
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
What I've said.
You forgot! 6. ? 7. Profit!
sky dayton? what the fuck kind of made up name is that? stick your flames up your assfucking bunghole, you cornholing piece of shit.
Didn't we hear much the same complaint ("My latest release isn't making me as much as I'd hoped -- those big meanies aren't spending enough to promote it!") from someone else yesterday?
Perhaps in both cases, peddling over-priced and stale c**p, year after year, eventually drives away the repeat buyer.
Oh well, at least C#NET cropped TheRevAl from their photo.
It would be oh so perfect and the timing would be so sweet. Personally I think Jobs won't go for this but it would be Apple's road to finally overcoming some of the biggest hurdles against a larger marketshare.
Think of it: Microsoft announces Palladium in an attempt to lock up the x86 platform. Jobs/Apple announce Mac OSX on x86 and Apple suddenly has fast processors like the rest of the world AND cheap hardware with good designs. Of course the other side of the coin is that Apple would suddenly no longer control the hardware and would have to compete against other PC manufacturers.
In court M$ said (or so I've heard), that Windoze has a 2/3 market share (67%). The percieved competitiors are Linux and MacOS. Now, since the percieved share of MacOS is 5%, Linux must have at least 28%. Since the percieved share of Linux is 5%, MacOS must have at least 28%. Add these figures up and you get Linux + MacOS = 56%, which leaves M$ Windoze a meager 44%. Oh the joy of perceived statistics! :-)
One luv
For $300 they could get a brand new mobo and processor that fits inside the same case and uses all the same peripherals. Hell, for $200 they could get an Athlon XP 1900+ and mobo. Pocket the rest or buy a huge chunk of memory. That would run circles around your computer, last for longer and be current rather than just extending the life of an older box, and even trounce you on Photoshop. :-P
If you like your Apple, good for you. But you can't compete on price, longevity is not inherently longer (other than perhaps the fact that you'd use the same mobo for much longer since it costs so much more than a PC replacing the whole thing), and your market share is more like 3%. Facts. Deal with it. Why can't so many of you guys just accept that?
He's the warrior of the warriors, the warrior supreme, never surrender, never! He are always saying: "The best defense is the attack..blah,blah,blah...
He choose the war and to fight and declared all of us, the world, as your enemy. It's the supreme war, he will fight and kill the Sun, and the world will enter your final dark, frozen age, then he will kill and destroy anything related to arts, all the creative minds, all design and music will disappear from the face of the earth, then he will kill all the intellect of this world. Then he will sleep cause he is the warrior supreme.
Sheesh, you make this sound like it was some Microsoft problem. EVERYONE had to "play fast and loose" with the Mac API because the APIs were brain damaged. It's not entirely Apple's fault, since there was so much momentum behind them, and after all, they were pretty much the first APIs made for GUIs.
This is simply not true.
While the Mac API's are not perfect, it IS possible, with an ordinary amount of effort to write programs that are backward and forward compatible with the Mac OS over a period of about 10 years. With additional effort, you can make your program work over an even larger base of Mac OS.
As evidence of what I say, many (most?) mac programs are compatible over a vast array of Mac OS versions. Typically a program written in the mid-80's will run on Mac OS 3.1 or newer. A program written in 1987 (when Mac II, color QD, etc.) will run on either 3.1 or 4.1 or newer, including the PPC emulation of 68K or the classic emulation of PPC under OS X. Programs such as MacWrite and MacPaint in 1984 were known to run as recently as System 7.5. (Don't know about the latest 9.1, 9.2 or OS X.) I wouldn't be surprised that many of the 1984-87 era. programs would run fine.
I have never seen an OS with such good compatibilty over such a long range of time and version numbers, with so many new technologies being introduced. (And I'm talking about binary compatibility.)
While the Mac API's are not perfect by any means (I could name numerous shortsighted design decisions -- probably driven by the "byte saving" mentality of a 128K memory footprint) it is not necessary to abuse the API's to write a normal working program that follows Apple's published guidelines. We're not talking about low level system software here. We're talking about word processors and spreadsheets. Programs that make use of the normal api services to draw graphics, manage windows, read/write files, etc.
What I am pointing out is a Microsoft problem. It should not be Apple's responsibility to kludge the OS to make Microsoft's software continue to run. Eventually Apple published a Tech Note that they were going to quit doing this for 3rd party developers -- even of popular software. There were a number of guilty parties, but it was well known that Microsoft was the biggest offender.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
"We're not seeing a lot of gratitude around here," said one source, who asked not to be identified.
Uh huh. And how, exactly, did MS show it's "gratitude" for actually having some place to sell it's first versions of Word and Excel? The same way AOL showed it's "gratitude" and Bungie showed it's "gratitude."
The foot's on the other hand now, isn't it!
Do not touch -Willie
Bones, is that you? :-D
Office is an okay suite. It's fine for simple to moderately complicated work (although Excel can be f*cking infurating at times...whatever). If you're looking for serious documentation tools, you sure as hell shouldn't be using Word. And spreadsheets have their limits - pass them & you're looking at a customized app solution of which their are many possibilities. And IE does nothing incredible that other browsers don't do. It comes on the Mac so I use it. I'm certainly not married to the thing.
For the type of work that Office is suited for I can just as easily use Appleworks which has "word processing, spreadsheet, page layout, painting, database, and presentations " , reads the latest Word & Excel formats and it's only $79. (BTW, it was (is?) also available for Windows including an XP udpate).
What do I currently run? Office98. Why?
What can we expect from MS in the future?
dU
Trust me. This is an inactive account. Regardless of what the