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Motorcyclists To Get Wearable Airbags
jonerik writes "For the past hundred years or so motorcycle accidents have had an unfortunate potential for particularly horrific injuries, or worse. Improvements in safety gear have certainly been made in the past few decades, but in some ways those improvements have been balanced out by the tremendous speeds that modern bikes are capable of. According to this article from ABC News, though, Dainese, a protective sports clothing maker in Vicenza, Italy has developed a wearable airbag vest - called the D-Air - designed to cushion riders in the event of an accident. The D-Air vest features a tiny electronic computer referred to as the STM (which stands for Sensing, Triggering, and Memory), which was developed by an Israeli company called Merhav APP. According to the article, the STM contains sensors that monitor the bike's physical motion. 'The sensors onboard the STM will watch for telltale signs -- such as a sudden deceleration force of about ten times that of gravity -- that precede a collision. Once the computer determines an impending accident, the STM blasts the data to receiver in the vest to start the inflation process.'
This site also features some pictures of the D-Air vest in action. Dainese plans to begin selling the D-Air vest in Europe in the spring, though American sales will have to wait since the U.S. Department of Transportation has yet to set standards for such a device."
Sounds like this sort of thing, if not calibrated perfectly for the person wearing it, could blow your head off!
This is good stuff, as a biker one of my biggest concerns is protection. Dropping the bike is no big deal, wearing the right gear you're more or less safe. But in the case of collisions with other vehichles I'm not sure this will help. But more protection is always good.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Next year's favorite college hazing stunt: jump off the highest building on campus, wearing one of these. Then wear it to the bar and chug a pitcher.
That D-Air is pronounced like "dare" is probably just a coincident, right ?
Is it likely to come with a warning "The usage of D-Air does not substitute driving with due care ?"
Oh my....
(Who knew NASA technology would pay off in this particular indirect way? Now our motorcyclists are bouncing around like Mars Pathfinder... After the accident maybe they can enjoy some refreshing TANG.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
I wouldn't like to be behind the driver when that thing went off :-)
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Am I the only one that at first glance read that as:
:/
For the past hundred years or so motorcycle accidents have had an unfortunate potential for particularly horrific injuries, or worse; Improvements in safety gear
Methinks I need some coffee...
Look at the picture of the inflated airbag. It looks like it mostly covers your back. (by giving you a giant lump)
I doubt it can ever become as usefull as a car airbag that mainly covers your head.
A while ago I saw a show on TV about an innovation made by Honda. They were making airbags on the outside of cars. In case of a crash the victim would be hurt less. In combination with a wearable airbag things would become even better.
On the other hand I would also suggest investing in technology to prevent accidents from happening as well as in damage reducing gear. We can build the electronics to accomplish this in planes, why not in cars&bikes?
/(bb|[^b]{2})/
-Laz
Cool! I imagine what a motercyclist will look like during or after an accident, I guess like this: the (good old) Michelin-guy.
giel.y contains 2 shift/reduce conflicts
bike tubes are in a way airbags, I think the real answer are bikes with tow bars and collision - maybe a /. news ticker on the handle bars. Okay the /. ticker is going too far. Btw, do geeks even ride bikes? Is this really news?
... of that James Bond coat that inflated to turn the wearer into an oversized inflatable golf-ball-like object.
Be the envy of your friends - turn into a bouncy ball at the touch of button. Be known as Pinball forever.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
The main danger for motorcyclists are drivers in safe cars: all they have to lose is their no-claims bonus and they drive like maniacs as a result. Replace car airbags with a large spike which plunges through the driver's chest when they hit something, then we'll be safer.
-j
I think this is ridiculous. Existing body armor for motorcyclists frequently protects riders very well in the event of high speed accidents.
.20.
In the U.S. at least, the "potential for horrific injuries" is far more closely related to the fact that a disproportionate number of motorcycle accidents involve alcohol. In Illinois, for example, last year's IDOT fatality stats had more than 10% with a staggering BAC of over
How about more education, less trying to protect riders from the fact that motorcycling actually requires some training, experience and skill?
This seems fine for when a biker hits another vehicle more or less head on but there are plenty of accidents where this wouldn't help at all. During the summer I came across two motorcycle accidents, one of which was sadly fatal (lots of blood. Not very nice). In one of them the victim just lost control of his bike on a bend and hit his head on the curb hard, and in the other one the bike was clipped from behind by a car and the rider fell off her bike and thankfully ended up in a bush with little more than bruises. The point is that in neither of these cases did the rider (or bike) experience forces in excess of 10 g's until the moment they hit the road, and possibly not even then.
I'm saying that this is a bad device, just that its applicability is limited.
You can't win Darth. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
Can you emagine if it went off while doing 90 on the M25? Surely you would end up off your bike and by the time you hit the floor it may have deflated!
Er.. it's a good idea though!
Falling on the ground and sliding are not the source of bad motorcycle injuries. Padded leather can/does prevent injuries like this. The real problem is when your slide-for-life gets cut short by an oak tree, telephone poll, guard rail, 18 wheeler.... I can't see an air bag vest helping in those situations.
I tend to carry a rucksack when on my bike and keep it quite close to my back for warmth and balance.
With this thing exploding around me quite fast what happens to my shoulders when the rucksack straps don't give and the bag tries to inflate behind it?
Could actual do more damage than just hitting the graound with armour in the leathers to help with impact and scraping?
crashandburn99
American sales will have to wait since the U.S. Department of Transportation has yet to set standards for such a device."
So, how many motorcyclists will die a preventable death before the DOT gets off its ass and allows these.
i'm sorry but i still feel much more comfortable in my full leathers. not only is my whole body protected, but that air bag looks like it would do more damage then good for the rider.
when riding, its important not to have anything on your body in case of a fall. For instance, if you wear a backpack, it has been shown not to be safe in the event of a fall (increased back injury, etc...). this is why they have tank/trunk bags. But this air bag looks like it would only protect your back and cause a more ackward fall in the case of an accident.
also price is rediculous. good full leaters will run you around 500$. the price of the vest is well over that (sure its becuase it is early development phase but still). what about re packing your air bag? i'm sure thats more $$$ too
good concept but not good enough
always sits behind me on the motorcycle.
(dont let her know I said that or she'll yell at me!)
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
I think this is a step in the wrong direction, and will lead to more accidents and deaths down the road.
Any biker who's rode more than 10,000 miles will have many tales to tell you of stupid cagers trying to kill them, with only the biker's wits and reflexes to save them. In a way, it's a way of separating men who trust themselves from the great scared masses who can't be trusted with dangerous machines, be they motorcycles, or even handguns.
But with this, the stupid cager masses will think they will be invulnerable on a bike, and take up riding. Soon, the body count will rise, how much will an airbag protect one against being run over by a semi, or high siding into a tree at 80 mph?
It's a lot like sin, the safest way to ride is not to rely on gear, but constant, ceaseless vigiliance, and no matter how much you try to protect yourself and your family from sin and temptation, the best way to prevent the excrutiating pain of eternal Damnation is ceaseless, constant vigilance, and being born Catholic.
A. Rightmann
The STM also features a radio transmitter that wirelessly links the box to a receiver built-into the D-Air vest.
Someone hits their garage door opener and you get blown off your bike...
nice
>such as a sudden deceleration force of about ten
> times that of gravity -- that precede a collision
Isn't it a bit late by then? Surely you don't decelerate until you're hitting something.
Um what if you're just slowing down real fast or screwing around? Suddenly you're a marshmellow and D-Air has a lawsuit on their hands. That sensor had better be damn good.
;-)
Also I don't know what the inflated jacket will look like but is it going to throw my passenger off the back of the bike if it accidentally inflates?
I'm a software developer and I've got to say that complex systems tend to have unforeseen states (i.e. bugs) I think I"ll let someone else test this one.
However it wouldn't have stopped my thigh bone being broken when I was "helped" off my bike at a junction by a kindly lady pulling across my path.
What you probably need is a version of the michelin man suit !
Anything that adds to the protection of motorbike pilots has to be a good thing, but I would suggest that a lot of the problem is from two areas, pilots riding too fast for the conditions, and car drivers / other road users not being aware of bikes.
I was wearing a jacket with armour in it, and a 400ukp crash helmet, without the full face lid I would be dead as the lower part of it seemed to have been the first point of contact I had with the ground as I performed a face plant on my way to going 30-0 mph in a few feet. When on a bike assume all other road users are idiots, and spend as mcuh money as you can (and more) on your personal protection, it *will* save your life!
If you have an accident on your bike the next important bit is the speed you get taken to somewhere that can put you back together... luckily I crashed a 2 minute ambulance ride away from the local hospital (and you have to hope that as you lie there in the road a "helpful" stranger doesn't remove your crash helmet unless they know what they are doing)
A monkey in every office....
This article in Wired from 1999 describes an airbag vest developed by Japanese construction giant Kajima to protect construction workers from falls.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Life imitates Neal Stephenson. This reads exactly like something out of Snow Crash.
The sensors onboard the STM will watch for telltale signs such as a sudden deceleration force of about ten times that of gravity that precede a collision.
Yeah, riiiiiight...
and while they're at it why don't they try detecting other tell-tale signs like profuse bleeding and bone fractures that also precede a collision.
I guess when the computer determines an "impending accident" it dumps 1.21 jiggawatts into the flux capacitor.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
According to Sport Rider, Alpinstars (another Italian company) and Honda have teamed up to produce their own air vest, set to deploy in only 15 milliseconds. The older, lanyard-based (not Dainese) vest can take up to 80. I was recently in a motorcycle accident which could have been much less if I had been wearing a vest like this, in addition to the gear I was already wearing (I T-boned a car at ~40mph).
"Are you on some kind of medication?"
"No"
"Well, you should be."
--Bean
It's bad enough we have hand grenades in the steering wheels of our new cars (another reason I only drive old cars) but now we'll be wearing one too?
Thanks, I'll pass. When I ride my FZR600, I wear heavy leather gloves, massive leather jacket (along with a spine brace), two pairs of pants (inner one are jeans, outer: leather) and a full helmet.
When I flipped my FZR once and was thrown off, the only thing bruised was my pride (and all the expensive fiberglas on the bike.)
If I want hand grenades attached to my jacket, I'll join the military.
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
Deceleration of 10g *precedes* a collision? My motorbike's brakes are good, but not *that* good...
What are we actually learning, as a society, from the usage and collision from motor vehicle accidents? How to crash better?
I'm all for improving safety and taking every measure possible to sustain life when there is an accident; however, we should all be mindful that no matter how many safety devices are incorporated into a device, one should still be mindful of their surroundings and take appropriate action *before* the situation degrades into an accident. Drivers need to be far more aware of the world, not just outside their front windshield, but from the viewpoint of all their windows. I've seen too many drivers cut off other vehicles, motorcycles more-so, than I care to recount.
Fortunately, here in the states, motorcycle drivers are required to take a safety course teaching the proper handling of a motorcycle in difficult situations. Unfortunately, drivers of SUVs aren't required to take these safety courses and end up killing a fair amount of their own citizens in smaller vehicles and motorcycles.
Point being: proper training improves everyones chances of returning home safely.
After witnessing my friend's death due to a biking accident ( crashed into a parked car at more then 4 times the speed limit ( 180+ kph)) i decided to sell my bike. ...
...
... ok the romantic idea of the freedom and joy of biking does have some truth in it ... ... ...Never had anything more then some slight burns and scratches and some broken fingers ...
It was the 3d person of a 15 member group of bikers that had died in the course of about 2 years, and i had enough. OK, most of the blame was up to us, we drove at incredible speeds on public roads ( 200 kph+ was not at all unusual ( and it wasn't on a highway or speedway). We did have a lot of experience on circuit tests and occasional amateur racing. But nothing protects you from your own stupity or that of others that cross your path
On the other had, it's just plain impossible to respect the speed limits with any stock supersport bike these days. ( I used to have a Suzuki TL-1000 R, standard 138 hp, but after carefull tuning it got up to about 150 hp, and reached speeds of around 290 kph ) Going slower then about 80-90 per hour is impossible with this bike
Anyway,I've been reading about this airbag jacket for a while now, but i'm not sure that this kind of stuff will really help a lot.
Sure, it does offer some more support, but at high speeds, i guess it won't really help a lot. And the kick in biking for me was all about speed
But the real kick is in scraping your knee-pads at high-speed turns
And that's where protective clothing really is important, I've been fairly happy with the dianese protective clothes, they've saved my from road burn a few times already, when i was luchky enough to fall at places where i was going slow enough to survive , and had enough place to slide to a halt
I rode every day for 7 years and I'm not sure about this product. This won't protect against the slide (as others have already pointed out), but that only accounts for about 5-10% of accidents.
The biggest cause of motorcyle accidents is when the car driver doesn't see you and either turns left in front of you, or pulls into your lane. In the left hand turn accident, the bike would experience the sudden deacceleration and the vest would inflate. But if it does, the inflated vest makes you a slightly more "round shape." I believe this would tend to cause more rolling and less sliding. At 30+ mph, the rolling effect would likely protect the head and neck (IF you are wearing a helmet), but tend to cause a LOT more arm and leg injuries.
In the accident where a car pulls into your lane, you usually bounce off the car and go into an uncontrolled tumble. I don't believe the vest would inflate.
I also wonder about the vulnerability of the wireless link. If a passing cell phone/CB/Ham radio/TV tower caused it to go off accidentally, it would almost certainly cause an accident.
The biggest hurdle by far, though is cost and use. Most riders are young, predominately male. As a general rule, we either are so young we don't fully understand the risk of riding (or after about 2 weeks of street riding) we realize the risk and accept it as the cost for our freedom. Most riders will spend plenty of money on their bike, but not much at all on their gear, so you would first have to convince the young guy that the risk will really be minimized and that the financial cost is worth the reduction in risk. Not an easy sale! I give it a 10% chance of being successful.
Best Slashdot Co
I have ridden motorcycles for quite some time, and everyone I know has dropped their bike while parked at least once. Having your airbag vest go off at that time would make the event even more embarassing that it already is.
move along, nothing to
Oh, the humanity!
Talk to the company about it - they're the ones that are declining to sell them. The fact that the DOT doesn't have standards for it is irrelevant.
All that means is that the company is afraid of putting out a product that might not spec up in the future. Not that there's a government conspiracy to continue to let idiots die on dangerous vehicles.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
This thing inflated makes you look like Quasimoto.
Imagine, you drive peacefully, suddenly realize you heading in for a bad collision.... you think 'at least i have that jacket' and at that time you have the battery warning light switching on !!!
Tsuyoikoto ha taisetsu da ne, dakedo namida mo hitsuyousa (Strength is an important thing, but tears too are necessary)
Didn't the book Snow Crash have something similar in it? I think both YT and Hiro were wearing suits that incorporated similar stuff to this.
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
Just goes to show that the Michelin Man was way ahead of his time.
Stick Men
And your arm will be hanging from that tree...
And your head will be there by the curb...
But your torso will be in a remarkably preserved state!
Will these come in the Bright Colors got the Crotch Rocketeers? Basic Black for the Harley riders?
What about alternate uses
-Base Jumping safety device
-new yuppie teach-your-kid-to-ride-a-bike saftey device
-New Staight Jacket for the mentally Ill
-Really safe sex device
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence. Edgar Allan Poe 1809-1845
Slowing down real fast? Man, I want your brakes (and tyres for that matter) if you can slow down at 10g and not lock-up the front and rear end...
I think the wording here is a little bad. Having worked for a Dainese dealer and having heard about this nearly a year ago, my impression was that the system was a little more complex than this (it was certainly planned that way). The 10g referred to is the impact of hitting a car, so, for example, going over the bonnet would set it off. It's not going to prevent low-side injuries, but even having said that, if the bike hits something after low-siding, it probably will, so you've more chance than currently.
There were other methods of triggering the device IIRC, but I for one wouldn't mind being surrounded by an inflatable cushion if I was heading for someone's windscreen at a rate of knots. A friend recently broke his back after he went over the roof of someone's car and caught his head in the sunroof, so existing technology is certainly not infallible.
Purely out of interest, the headline talks about these statistics being from the states. Is it not still the case that a lot of states do not require the use of a helmet? Having also seen the amount of idiots riding around at 100mph+ with t-shirts and shorts on, I'm not entirely surprised the injuries are so bad. Thankfully, the weather over on this fair isle doesn't really allow for that kind of stupidity...
-Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience-
some motorcycle riders won't even wear a helmet, why would they wear an air bag?
...but I think I'd be tempted to start picking off motorcyclists just to see them go bouncing down the road on their airbag...boing boing boing....
It doesn't remove the basic fact that these lifesaving devices will not be legally available in the U.S. because of our bureaucracy. Whether it's an active negative action of the bureaucracy, or a company not doing something lifesaving because it is afraid of same, it's still a bureaucracy operating to the detriment of the people.
Of course I could still be bitter against the DOT because they won't allow the fast, safe and fuel efficient Lotus Elise into the U.S.
Well, that and mandating airbags in cars before the technology was up to an acceptable and safe level, the cause of some major injuries to me.
That is so true. I can't tell you how many times I have almost been hit.
Heck, a friend of mine wears some steal toed boots and he has told me he has dented about 3 doors in his life time with them. He always is amazed to see the expression on the other driver when his boot slams into the side of their car.
This Greek manufacturer is doing something similar - although the "trigger" is a bit more low-tech: A proximity sensor sensing distance between rider and bike (actually a steel cable hooked to your ride :-) ). See pictures here and here. Unfortunately the site is a bit low on textual info.
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
Really body armor can do a pretty good job already on injuries to your torso. A full face helmet is also a must. The real worry is head/spinal cord injuries - a system to hold your helmet in a safe position would be more effective in my opinion, but difficult and inconvenient. Even better is training and awareness and not riding drunk - a huge percentage of motorcycle fatalities are single vehicle crashes where the rider is drunk. By not being an idiot and wearing conventional protective gear you're really in pretty good shape.
Potentially insightful comment from a deranged madman with an R6 for a crotch rocket...
..but in some ways those improvements have been balanced out by the tremendous speeds that modern bikes are capable of... Yeah right. Headbutt the ground at 60 mph, you're just as dead as if you
-----Original Message-----
From: *
To: *
Sent: 11/12/2002 13:55
Subject: Re: So disturbing in so many ways...
Particularly given how effective car air bags are at snapping necks etc. Prototypes of this thing have been around for at least five years or so. Just wait 'til some jobsworth twat in the EU or UK govs tries to justify his sorry existence by trying to make it compulsory... Love this bit...
do it at 160mph. Oh, and most fatal motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers. Oh, and outright speed is rarely the cause of an accident.
Speed and an inexperienced rider? That's where most accidents come from. Why do I get the impression that the person who posted this has never ridden a motorbike in his life? Motorcycle safety gear works because the armour absorbs the impact, whilst the leather shreds and tears, slowing down your slide down the tarmac. How does turning the rider into a spacehopper help?
They've already done extensive testing for situations a rider might encounter. They are holding off because they're afraid of what the business effects and liability will be if the the DOT later makes a regulation that screws them. Meanwhile, it'll be widely sold in the safety-conscious EU.
Not that I personally love airbags. I hate U.S.-style airbags in cars. But if they're being made, U.S. consumers should have a choice to purchase them.
Anyone that rides a motorcycle hopefully already knows this.. use LEATHER!!
It's not just a Harley thing or a status symbol, it is for safety. Leather boots, pants and gloves with hard sole boots or shoes. In a motorcycle ejection or fall off, it is better to gradually slide to a stop then to stick to the ground and tumble around. Leather will allow you to slide while protecting the skin and provide a decent stopping friction. It does not help much when slamming into something where conservation of momentum is tested but for most motorcycle dumps and mishaps it can save your life.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
You apparantly haven't encountered an Excursion XL yet.
Let me explain something to you - If you wreck a bike going more than 60 miles an hour - your either going to be dead, very injured or very very lucky. And it won't make a shit bit of difference if your wearing ARMOR or jeans and a leather jacket.
You can say what you want - but I wear a helmet when I ride - BECAUSE it is required by law. I would wear it most of the time anyway. But for short trips into town - it would be nice to not have to wear it. I always wear jeans, boots and a leather jacket - even on the hottest day of summer - but I would go with a helmet once in a while - if the choice was mine to make.
But even so - if you wreck a bike at 90+, its not going to be pretty no matter what you have on. I think that this seems like a pretty stupid idea that some ass will make into a law - WHO DOESNT RIDE A BIKE... IMHO.
Duke
FreeBSD: Nothing runs like a daemon with a pitch fork.
Florida has made helmets optional, so many bikers prefer comfort over safety. I would rather have a steel suit of armor than an air bag. But mine is comfortable. Just sign your Organ Donor Card before getting on the motorcyle, you can do some good for the rest of us.
There is nothing worse than horrific injuries - you have to live with or if you're lucky recover slowly and painfully from those.
When you're dead, you're dead. You don't wander around thinking damn this is terrible, how I wish I could have gotten off with some horrific injuries.
Given the option between permanent, serious disability and death I choose death.
Modern sportbikes can accelerate at an insane rate, it really does feel like your eyeballs are being squeezed and your brain compressed against the back of your skull. Then again my '81 750cc could do over 220kph even if it didn't have the acceleration of the modern two wheeled rockets. My current 600 may be able to do 270kph, but I've yet to find a road where I'd even consider trying that - out in the desert maybe.
I wonder how many people will get one of these jackets and forget to take it off when they get off their motorcycle... The rider starts walking away, then the sensing circuits in the jacket detect that the rider and motorcycle are getting further away, then PFFFFFFT, instant fat rider! :^)
Coincidentally, I actually rode my Honda Magna 750 motorcycle into work today...
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Fuck your airbags, Fuck helmets and Fuck the DOT. Stay out of my life.
It looks the same and works identically except that the trigger goes off if the wearer acheives speeds of more than 20 miles per hour, as on a Segway this is an obvious sign of a collision...
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
I saw a program a couple years ago (I think it was Tomorrow's World) that said they were getting air bags for American Football players. Did it ever catch on?
It's a great idea - though I'd also like a few along the frame to protect my legs from the skidding down the road that follows.
Perhaps the various semi-rigid body armors are better after all. Does anybody know how effective they actually are? Are there any studies or tests?
Thanks, I just about had coffee spewing out my nose when reading that.
But anyway, I think here's how the system is supposed to work, based on my thorough reading of the short slashdot blurb but not the article itself:
In any bike accident you have two collisions (at least). The first is when your bike hits something. Your bike stops suddenly, but since you're not strapped onto it, you still have all that momentum.
So there's a split second between the bike hitting something, and your body hitting something. When the bike slams into, say... a bus, it sends a radio signal to the rider's chest air bag that says "Hey, I just hit something, you might want to inflate that airbag within the next 0.02 seconds or so." Hopefully your airbag will inflate just in time for your upper body to ram into the side of the bus.
Of course in many crashes, the rider is thrown far away from the bike. Your bike hits a car, you're thrown over the hood of the car, and then while you're in mid-air you'll be thinking "wouldn't it be nice if I was surrounded by big inflateable pillows like that Mars lander so I could just bounce around for a while instead of wrapping my intestines around this upcoming light pole?"
On the other hand, this opens up the possibility of practical jokes... see a biker on the highway, send a spoof "inflate airbag" radio signal to his bike, enjoy the resulting hilarity.
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
With all the talk about wardriving, I'm surprised noone else has thought about this.
So lets say a guy wearing this vest decides hes going to cut off someone driving a VW bug. Little does he know that inside that bug is a laptop computer and a wireless card, that just happened to catch your vest signal.
Suddenly wardriving takes on a whole new meaning. That guy in the bike pissing you off? No big deal! Flick of the switch and he'll go flying.
Humor aside, I don't trust anything wireless with my life.
My first reading of the article lead me to beleive the sensors "blast the data" to the inflation unit via wireless signals of some type.
:)
I hate to think of the fun/damage a script kiddie could have with a transmitter...
For several years, they have been talking about a helmet-mounted airbag for high-school and collegiate football players, to prevent neck injuries. Those injuries have gotten a lot of research into safer equipment, including helmets bolted to shoulder pads.
But looking at that inflato-vest, I couldn't help think that it looked halfway through the transformation to Mospeada (Robotech Part III) ride-armor.
Design for Use, not Construction!
I dont mean to troll (well maby a little) but here in australia our footballers dont ware all that padding.
They can where this little padded leather headgear but thats optional and most dont.
My "cousin" had a head on when he was riding his bike. [he trusted a bus driver who waved him through]
Of all the people he chose to plough into his was a doctor. She Saved his life at the scene but was paralyzed from the neck down.
A few years later he took his own life in hospital [somehow - can't remember]
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
my doctor friends will stop calling them "donorcycles" ?
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." - Marx
Methinks I need some coffee... :/
No, must just live in Milwaukee. 90% of the riders don't wear helmets, and on a hot day, they're not going to wear one of those vests. Jackets are bad enough when the temp is over 80. You can sweat like a 'hog' merely sitting at a stoplight, surrounded by car fumes.
Sorry, but jeans and t-shirts (or light vests) are the norm.
Yes, I do OWN a helmet, and yes I wear it sporadically.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Improvements in safety gear have certainly been made in the past few decades, but in some ways those improvements have been balanced out by the tremendous speeds that modern bikes are capable of.
Capable of, indeed. However, there is hardly ever any need to use this power and go 300kph. As a motorcyclist-in-creation (read: taking lessons right now) I don't always understand the need for these immense speeds. I apreciate the accelerating power of the bike (no car can keep up with you after a traffic light) and that you can often squeeze through a narrow gap where a car simply cannot goi. Going 120 kph (75 mph) on the highway is certainly thrilling, but I would rather drive at a speed I feel comfortable with than going to the edge of what is technically and humanly possible.
But to get back to my point: cars have become a lot 'safer' with ABS, airbags (unless you smoke), wrinkle zones (unless you have long legs), side bars (unless you do end up in an accident and rescue workers spend 30 minutes cutting through them; time you are trapped in your vehicle), and drivers seem to rely on these gadgets, rather than actually paying attention to their driving style. Thus, they tend to drive more dangerously.
With this airbag, something similarly may happen to motorcylcists. However, when you go at 200 kph, no amount of airbag is going to save you if you hit something streaight on or glide under the 'egg-slicer' guidance rails at the side of the road. So folks, learn to control your right hand first (that's the gashandle, before you get any funny ideas :-)) and *watch out*. Rule number 1 while driving a motorcycle is to be smarter and more observant than the other users on the road and avoid dangerous situations.
"Fix it? It has been disintegrated, by definition it cannot be fixed!" - Gru in Despicable Me.
Saw this a few months ago on French TV, the guy said he was the inventor. :-)
Maybe he GPL'd it ?
to protect me from injury during motorcycle accidents, I have fitted my motorcycle with custom safety gear. I drive a motorcycle with 4 wheels that is entirely covered in a steel enclosure.
so they're damned if they do, damned if they don't? their fault either way? bullshit, that's a coward's excuse.
either they rush the standards implementation and potentially get caught okaying dangerous product, and catch flak from people like you who think the govmint should be their guardian angels and parents and god, or they don't, and still catch flak from people like you, etc etc.
what the fuck ever. frankly, i think that anyone butt-ass-dumb enough to ride a motorcycle on the roads of stupidity today deserves every damn thing they get... it's suicidal to begin with, and having an airbag isn't going to help the nimrods i see flaunting death every day
Exactly.
Let me also add, that manufacturers are the ones who are MADE to change their products in order to sell in the US.
The Elise didn't make it here probably because it fails the US DOT bumper test. (European has a lower impact standard).
Sounds safe huh? Not so, my friend. SUV's are excempt from the bumper height regulation so your head can easily be chopped off even if your car's bumper can withstand a 1000 mph impact - a truly splendid testament of how US DOT bureaucracy "improves" our odds arriving alive.
Another example: E-code headlights. They have better beam pattern that concentrates the light on the road, not to the sky - US DOT requires 1/3 of the light to beam upwards so "drivers can see street signs". Well, the only thing that drivers can see when it is raining or snowing with a US DOT light is the raindrops/snow in front, not the road. LOL.
Just an example how conjured-up theories made its way to real regulations. I've been in E-code cars before, and the street signs are just as easy to read - but I couldn't believe how tremendously improved the lighting performance was.
Good thing I'm in Canada, although we get the same USDOT-spec cars it is legal to modify them to Euro spec headlights. I'm going to do it soon.
So if they do something, they're bad. If they don't do anything (like the airbag vest), they're still bad.
It looks to me like they are being cautious so they don't repeat earlier mistakes. To release the wrong specs on these vests could cause more injuries than they would prevent, similar to your airbag experience.
I'd say they are being smart.
Murphy was an optimist.
...your motorcycle gear may be used as a flotation device.
unsigned int question = 0x2B | ~(0x2B)
Riding a bike is so dangerous it requires a constant state of medidation. No sigar, no conversation, just you and the road. That's how I avoided 5 years of 'cruising whitout collisions.
With all the effort placed in surviving the crash, why not avoid it altogether?
Have a compressed air charge instantly deploy a canopy (rather than that ridiculous airbag) that lifts the rider into the air, allowing him to pass over the impending collision.
Keep in mind, this saftey device would only work for high-speed collision scenarios. Riders should also be mindful not to crash near any power lines (unless, of course, they are wearing their rubberized anti-electrocution suit with rocket-fired grounding line).
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(
Many of you are speculating that it wont do any good at all, you'd bounce around, etc... but remember, in order for this to go into sale it probably had to go through some sort fo testing for how safe it would be and so on, like any other seatbelt or airbag would. so clearly it has been found to be somewaht helpful it protecting the rider. lets go outside and I'll hit you on a motorbike with my car, do you want this thing or not? it's probably gonna be better than nothing don't forget that.
Everybody denies I am a genius--but nobody ever called me one!
Fear them pictures with the exposed arms!!
And most people around here don't wear helmets as it is... imagine them wearing this???
Oh yeah... t-shirts saying "I'm the bitch that got blew off by the inflating vest!!"
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
The basic difference is that the car airbags was a requirement, these are rider's choice. Why does the government have to release specs on something before it's worthwhile?
We're all little children who need tending to.
In his novel Snow Crash, he describes the young Kourier YT as having an airbag built into here suit. One of the airbags detonated near her neck to protect here spine, neck and head.
- Tempestdata
The Elise didn't make it here probably because it fails the US DOT bumper test.
Oh yes, the test standard that has reaped massive benefit to the American publ^H^H^H^H insurance industry.
The new lights are great. They're very popular in Germany.
Good thing I'm in Canada
But you're still stuck with daytime running lights, aren't you? Those blind me every time I see them in front or behind me, especially being low in the Elise. Very dangerous.
Definately not a good idea to kick cars... especially SUV's while on a motorcycle...
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Don't have a standard? Or treaty with the EU for cross-recognition of standards?
Nope, can't do that. This whole standards thing has two reasons: appease the insurance industry and create protective trade barriers.
They used to have one (actually still do, methinks) airbag where it inflates via a string attached to your bike.
In the other words, when you are flung off, the string pulls, and you puff up like Kirby before hitting a tree / pavement / alien mothership.
Only, of course, people would forget to detach the string before getting off the bike, so you'd stand up, wave "hi" to the hot chick who's checking out your ride, and dismount to greet her - and all the sudder "pop - BOOM - pffffff" and you will be the laughingstock for the entire hemisphere.
anyway - the airbag vest thingy aforementioned was supposed to be re-fillable / re-packable / re-chargable / whatever, because the makers forsee (or maybe had personal experience during trial stages?) this kind of stuff, though.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Or guns. A couple rounds into the block gets attention.
Best Slashdot Co
So far. Just like there used to be a choice with helmets
Good point. Same with car airbags, power brakes/ABS (soon in Europe), daytime running lights, seatbelts, etc. Except for the seatbelts, these are all things I don't want on a sports car and luckily was able to order one without (but not in America).
I say if you don't want the stuff, your government shouldn't force you to buy it. But we all know you are not responsible enough to decide what sort of safety equipment you want on your car.
Hi,
Just having a flick around the front page of Slashdot and saw this post and thought I'd add my two pence! (This is my first Slashdot post...)
Just thought it may be of interest that in the UK you can already get stuff like this. My colleague has a similar system but cruder in operation. It simply attaches him to the bike via a short, fine cable. Get on the bike, plug yourself in, "arm" the system and you're off. If you have an accident, the cable comes out of it's socket, breaks a circuit and the jacket fires its internal airbag.
G
Improvements in safety gear have certainly been made in the past few decades, but in some ways those improvements have been balanced out by the tremendous speeds that modern bikes are capable of.
Are we talking about street bikes, those that have no business going anywhere close to their maximum speed?
It is the natural order of the world to weed out the reckless and stupid. I don't think we should do more to upset that balance.
...this thing accidently triggers as you're cruising at 120mph on some desert highway? You get blown off the back of your bike and become a human tumbleweed, I guess.
I wouldn't wear it as my only protection, but it beats the T-shirt and baggy pants 2 morons wore when we went out riding as a group.
...it can never be said enough. Wear your gear.
I don't even want to think of the damage to your arms when you bounce around in that thing. It wouldn't have helped the 2 minor newbie accidents I had sliding the bike.
This space intentionally left blank.
Well after getting the lights I'll get the switch too that would allow me to turn EVERY light on/off individually :) :)
wearing leather and a helmet protect most riders against all but the worst spills. I have no stats to quote offhand but I believe the problem is usually not the fall, rather the fact that you're lucky if you only get run over twice. an airbag won't help when the cars behind you can't slow down in time.
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
All of the new technologies to make bike riding safer is excellent until the government forces you to use them. Its a fundamental right as an individual to decide whether or not you want to use those safety measures - including helmets! Now that those rights are being taken away, we fall down a dangerous path...
It may be good for motorists but it's very bad for humanity - the number of kidneys available as transplants will drop radically.
So, in the interest of humanity, ban those airbags now!
homepage: www.tls.pl
signature: not found
they are called tits.
considering that the majority of motorcycle fatalities are related to head trauma. Even if the person is wearing a helmet, the DOT standards in the US only require the helmet to survive an impact of a 6 pound weight from 6 feet in the air (not a very high impact speed, around 20mph I think). Considering the speed at which most collisions happen it seems to me that improvements in helmet technology would make more sense.
The government hasn't released any specs yet, and probably will not for some time. The manufacturer is choosing not to bring the device here, they are not being blocked by the (very overbearing) government.
Murphy was an optimist.
Any biker who's rode more than 10,000 miles will have many tales to tell you of stupid cagers trying to kill them, with only the biker's wits and reflexes to save them. In a way, it's a way of separating men who trust themselves from the great scared masses who can't be trusted with dangerous machines, be they motorcycles, or even handguns.
Well, i'm not sure what you are saying here, but IMHO, if you know that "cagers" are out to get you, it doesn't matter if you have the right of way or not, you end up dead & they end up sorry.
I used to ride bikes, until I realized that paralyzed people not only cant walk but are fecally and urinally incontinent.
To me the risk of ending up without legs or bowel control far outweighed the benefits of riding.
Sure every motorcycle rider thinks they wont be the one to get injured in this manner, but the odds are higher for motorcyclists in a statistically significant manner. I finally decided that even though i am a man that "trusts myself" I am human and fallible and everyone makes mistrakes.
So, I decided to take up safer activities like rock climbing and mountaineering. (both of which are statistically safer than driving a car much less a motorcycle.)
take care,
Jester
Who modded this OT troll up? Looks like Biker-Cager topics can be added to the lengthy list of guaranteed Slashdot flamewars.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
There's no way I'd put that vest on over my leather jacket!
ZZZ reported on something similar almost 2 years ago, called the eggparka: Here (do text search for Eggparka or scroll down about half way)
Let's say you get off your bike and as you walk away you get hit by a large truck. Does the inflating jacket save your life?
Or...
Some little shits decide to give you a beating. Does the jacket decide the baseball bat impacts are an accident, inflate the jacket and save your life?
'The sensors onboard the STM will watch for telltale signs -- such as a sudden deceleration force of about ten times that of gravity -- that precede a collision.'
Um, if you are pulling 10gs, you have already hit something.
I had a relatively low-speed accident a few years back, a combination of a limited-visibility off-ramp with a bad drop-off and a stationary pickup truck pulling a garden trailer. Missed the truck and trailer but heavy breaking made me dump the bike, or tossed me: There's some missing time of a few seconds. Broke the left foot peg mount, with my foot on it. Landed on asphalt with the left side of my body, primarily top and side of the head, shoulder, left forearm, left thigh, and both hands.
Injuries: Bruises and soreness.
Why: Full-face helmet prevented serious head injury (at best road rash on my face). Leather jacket saved about 8 sq. in. of skin on my shoulder. Leather gloves saved the skin on my palms. Leather boots with steel toes probably prevented a broken foot. Jeans sucked up just enough to save my skin on my legs, just barely (some extremely minor abrasions).
After checking out myself and the bike, I rode it to work (with 5th gear only), got a ride to the doctor's office for some x-rays, then later rode the bike home.
I'd consider wearing body armor, but not an air bag. That's just silly.
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i have stickers on the back and front of my lid that says "DO NOT REMOVE HELMET IN A CRASH (unless you are an EMT)" - bold white on a black background, had to have them custom made. hopefully if they're ever needed (god forbid), at least one of them will be intact (and i won't be needing CPR). i put them on after one of my dad's highschool buddies lost the use of his legs that way; that's not how i wanna go, lying on the road with some well-intentioned person yanking at my helmet, wondering why my head spins 360 degrees...
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
12v relay - $3.50
9v battery - $2.29
momentary contact switch - $0.79
WarDriving with a spark gap generator to swamp the sensor in the exploding vest - priceless
--
The biggest problem with motorcycle accidents is spinal cord and head injuries, which this device will do nothing to prevent.
well...how about if the jacket included a super-strong, super-stiff inflatable cervical collar? put it on a separate inflator system, make it out of something bombproof like kevlar so it'll stay inflated, and even if it doesn't spare you a broken neck, you're at least immobilized and set for extraction. and if you aren't wearing a helmet along with the jacket, well, Darwin deserves to get ya. of course i imagine you might get all sorts of new and lethal head injuries if your neck couldn't move at all during the crash, but hey, quid pro quo.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Why not just throw the rider completely clear of the scene upon sensing an incoming 80+mph object within 3 feet. Just hope there aren't any powerlines around :D
Seriously though, a side-firing ejection seat might just throw you ten feet up, and over to the sidewalk or agains the side of a building. Worst case scenario, you get thrown in the path of a semi.
I have a sportsbike, and here's my take on it:
:)
If you are wearing leathers, helmet and gear, then it's not really the fall that causes your injuries, as much as it is whatever object that eventually stops you from sliding down the pavement (tree, guardrail, car etc) If you look at some motorcycle races, you will see that the tracks have big runoff areas where racers can just slide to a stop from their 100mph crashes and usually get up and walk away!
The problem with the "airbag" is that it sticks out so much that you are unlikely to actually slide to a stop. Instead you will likely tumble down the street, and even though your torso may be protected, you can break plenty of other bones in the meantime.
The bag will help you when you eventually hit that guardrail, but by that point you may already have broken legs/arms...
Witold
Check out the link below for pics of my bike
www.witold.org/bike/bike.php3
witold.org
An airbag? Entirely too logical. Try this on for size (automatic parachute): Patent #5593111
My wife is an emergency physician. She says you should *always* wear a seatbelt. I don't care if you're one, six or nine months pregnant - the medical literature is unanimous that the benefits outweigh the risks.
Of course, you have to wear it properly (i.e. shoulder-adjusted to the correct height, seated the correct distance from the wheel, etc), which is a problem if you're a 5ft mother-to-be in a Truck or big SUV, where they deliberately put the pedals 2" or so further back (because they're designed for big men, not soccer mums).
But always wear your seatbelt.
I read through the posts real quick and I was suprised to not ice that no one mentioned this is not a new idea. These devices have been around in the US for at least three years. The one thing that I can tell is new about this device is the transmiter and computer. the Original design I saw used a rip cord which would deploy accidently quite often from what I have heard.
Airbags pop out around your body, a video of one didn't look like it would be possible to blow your head off in any way. Maybe a limb. Anyway, they are hilarious to watch. I wish I had a URL to the video. I would be surprised if the get heavy use, though. I ride, and wearing a backpack sucks. Most riders I see don't even wear leathers :-/. If these things were cheap, they could be some of the best fun around. Also, Death is the biggest deterrant to being reckless on a motorcycle. You'd see a lot more sportbikes going 140mph on the highway.
I think existing foam/ hard shell back protectors do a pretty good job of protecting the back already. The only "life-threatened" part of the body that isn't catered for (by helmet, leathers, gloves) I believe, is the neck. For a while I've wondered about the possibility of a small neck protector that inflates and stabilises the neck when the rider is ejected from the bike at high speed.
you attempt to support the "ABS increases stopping distance" argument by providing a number of references which state that "ABS does not shorten stopping distance"
this is irrelevant to your argument--try again
The airbag wears YOU!
The fact of the matter is, that unless you're just stupid (not wearing a helmet, or biking in shorts/short sleeves/sandals or other loose-fitting shoes) motorcycle accidents--despite how spectacular they look--are less often fatal than car accidents. This is primarily because in a car, you go where the car goes, but on a bike, you just sort of fall off. That may sound like a bad thing, but when fate takes your respective vehicle on a joyride through the forest, taking a dive seems like a pretty damned good idea. Sure you might break a limb or two, but it beats researching the effectiveness of implanting a human brain in a tree.
`which fortune`
You arrive at the biker rally, discretely decked out in your airbag. You park your bike on the grass in full view of those you want to impress most. As you remove your helmet and strut in the general direction of the beer tent, the kickstand slowly sinks into the soft earth. It's embarrasing enough sprinting towrads your pride and joy in a vain attempt to save it from harm, but as it hits the deck, the collision detection gismo triggers your inflatable vest. The mental trauma far outweighs physical injury.
The problem you are describing is very real with most bikers. And is easy to explain way it happends. Imagine you are on a bike. And you are stuck in the freeway (this happends in California/Silicon Valley) every day several times a day). And you can see a clear path to freedom (or to heaven). Is near to imposible to NOT take your chances and drive in between. Most bikers will drive in between cars. But you have to understand is dangerous and there are acouple of things a biker can do to make things a little safer: - Only drive in between cars if they are at a or close to a complete stop. Do not drive in between cars were there is not enouch space for the bike and you. Do not drive at more than 35 mph. The las point is realy important since it reduces the chances of injury and gives god time to move and control the situation. Un fortunately there are lot's of bikers that do drive at 65mph in between cars and I have done that while following a fellow and is dangerous as hell.
BSD licensed software can't be stolen....
That is very true. most of times in stop and go times If i have to sudenly stop (common in stop and go trafic). I try to move in to the front's car lane (who is alreay stop). and end breaking on his lane. This protects me from stupid "cagers" braking on my tail been run over by a truck is not cool. One of the things that makes cagers more dangerous are they cell phones. I seriously hope they become illegal in the hayway.
BSD licensed software can't be stolen....
Rather than learning the lesson that doing 70+ mph sitting on a small strip of metal and 2 tires isn't exactly the brightest idea, they're finding ways to try to pad themselves. It's called a CAR.
I wonder exactly what kind of data is sent to the jacket.
Perhaps it is somthing along the lines of: "NOW!!!", encoded in XML to facilitate the use of the data in other devices as well.
I understand the reson why Dainese is working on this (money) but if this appeals to you then you should give up riding completely. Nobody said that this was for wimps. Get a good leather jacket, chaps, boots and gloves and enjoy the ride. Leave the airbag to the Michelin man.
It could be used by downhill mountain biker assuming they tuned it down a little. Imagine falling off and the airbag makes you roll down the mountain :P
I fought the corporate America, and the corporate America bought the law.
As a matter of fact so effective in it's best forms that it can HELP a Formula One driver brake better and deeper than ever before, that is why it has been banned as a driver aid in Formula One. In top level racing where it IS allowed, it IS used. I think they are pretty skilled, do you?
And as far as an average driver being able to 'threshold brake,' it's never going to happen. I have done many open track and AutoX events and I would say at least 50%-60% of the people who do this regularly can't properly 'threshold brake.' It would be much easier to teach someone to USE ABS vs. tech them how to 'threshold brake.'
As for airbags, it is my opinion that they ONLY help in the most horrible accidents.
"Once the computer determines an impending accident" Great! An excuse for another annoying "Mac Switch" ad.
I can say with absolute certainty that bikers are not the cause or well over 90% of the accidents. Of all the drivers I know the ones that ride motorcycles are the most cautious, the most careful, the most defensive drivers I know. They won't cut you off. They won't pull out in front of you. They won't try to occupy your lane while you're still in it. They won't turn in front of you. All these things here are exactly what "cagers" do to bikers.
Cagers, not the bikers, cause almost all of the motorcycle accidents. It truely reminds me of "suit syndrome" where the suits lose 1/2 of the brain cells within seconds of strapping on their tie. It's as if as soon as cagers get behind the wheel they instantly suffer from tunnel vision, incompetence, and stupidity all at once.
I had a fun experience happen once. I was driving down a busy 2-lane road in town. I was going about 45mph. A cager in at a crossroad (he had a stop sign) looked right away from me, looked back at me, literally looked me in the eye, and then pulled out in front of me. I was about 3 car lengths away when he did that. I damned near nailed him. I didn't have a chance to slow down so I swerved into the ditch. I was going fast enough I just zipped right by him and back onto the road. The dumb son of a bitch had the nerve to honk at me and flip me off. Now that pissed me off.
I see shit like that happen all the damned time. It's not just women drivers (fitting the stereotype) that cause these problem. Male cagers cause just as many problem to us bikers.
Before people start saying how dangerous bikers are, they read should ride a couple miles in our shoes. The vast majority of wrecks bikers have are not their fault. Given the lack of metal surrounding their bodies though, even a small accident on a motorcycle is usually a bad one. I consider myself a fairly good biker and I've never had a wreck. I've had close calls though. One of these days a cager will probably get me.
This jacket would look great with some moon boots! This is goofy... but any efforts are benifitial, even if they inform you of how not to do things.
;)
Trying not to break your neck/back is good. There are great jackets out there with carbon fiber inserts to protect your back and elbows. They've come up with a goofy answer to the neck issue here and hopefully future development will improve this... a biker just isn't going to wear a marshmellow jacket. And yeah, god that looks like a tumble-oh-matic!
As others have pointed out, you don't want to tumble, you want to slide... leather is your freind.
Try'n keep the rubber side down
Jim
-=sig=-
from Neal Stephenson's SnowCrash. Now, I just gotta find a Stun Bunny, a Loogie Gun, and a can of Liquid Knuckles.
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - HST
The kind of situation where you get killed on a motorcycle (provided that you're already wearing protective gear) is when, after the impact, you hit the ground and then incoming traffic runs you over. No air bag will help there.
The primary (and only true) safety device on a motorcycle is your own ability to not put yourself in trouble in the first place.
I've driven motorcycles almost every day (execpt when there's snow) for nearly ten years. No accident yet. I've sworn to myself that if I ever have one, no matter how benign, I'll quit driving a bike, as it would then prove that I don't have enough discipline or skills to drive one.
-- owner of a nice new Yamaha FZ-1, and loving it!
Years ago, I once witnessed a bad motorcycle accident. At a popular sailboarding beach in my area, a van pulled out onto the highway in front of a motorcyclist. Whether the cylist was distracted by the activity on the water, I don't know, but he wasn't quite able to avoid the van and he clipped the corner of it. He then tumbled diagonally off the side of the road, across a shallow ditch, and went through a row of heavy roadside fenceposts(about 10" diameter) of the kind that are mercifully hard to find these days. A group of doctors and nurses who were on the beach that day tried their best to stabilize him, but he didn't make it. I won't go into the gory details, but he was intact on the outside, but obviously not intact on the inside. At least in this case, the airbag might have helped him.
As a child, I once saw a police officer carrying a boot complete with limb into a hospital emergency ward. An airbag probably wouldn't have helped there.
I have a buddy who, while stopped at a traffic light on his bike, was rear ended BY ANOTHER MOTORCYCLE.
I also did some commuting over a summer on the back of this friend's bike, and I can vouch for the fact that a small but significant percentage of drivers become very aggressive around motorcycles. (BTW, we were riding a rice rocket, and look nothing like gang members).
I have a number of dear friends who are big motorcycle enthusiasts, and I would dearly love to join them, but until people start taking the operation of heavy machinery seriously (bikes and cars), I want as much metal around me as possible. The only way I would consider riding, would be to find the motorcycle equivalent to the SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) and ride on the track where the flow of traffic is controlled. At least that way, you can control the modes of crashing, and skill, good judgement, and good safety equipment can be of some use.
I used to ride motorcycles -- count me as a fan. I've never had a bad crash, due more to luck than skill. Several of my friends weren't so lucky. Not all injuries heal, not all breaks mend, and not very many body parts can be replaced.
I know several people who have serious, permanant disabilities caused by motorcycle accidents. I agree with the statements made by several posters that this vest presents some hazards, as all airbags do. The concerns regarding passengers and backpacks seem especially relevant.
However, airbags in cars have been statistically proven to greatly reduce injuries (especially when used in conjuction with seat belts). For those who haven't taken or didn't pass basic stats, this means that, even though some injuries are caused by the protective device, the reduction in injury frequency and severity overshadows the risks of use. Your cat-like reflexes and macho biceps probably aren't enough to skew the results, most fatalites thought they had 'em too.
I could learn to live without a leg, a hand or an arm. I'm not sure how I'd deal with quadreplegia -- pretty darn scary stuff. As a cyclist, I rode in gear with protective kevlar plates for road-rash. These would have done NOTHING to prevent spinal or blunt-force trauma injuries. I think this sound like an excellent idea.
"Witness state that a moment before impact the biker was apperently attacked by the Michelin Man"
This sort of device has already been available (in Canada) at least for a good little while. No web link, sorry, but it's called the "Air vest". It hooks onto your motorcycle with a steel cable, and when you get separated from your bike, it inflates like a large puffy life preserver, using CO2 canisters. Pretty neat things if I do say so myself.
-- Bandit450...If-Else-Do-*TWITCH*!
There is *nothing* in there that would lead anyone to conclude that removing ABS would be an advantage. Quite the opposite. The only time it increases your stopping distance is a) driver misuse (letting up on the brake due to feedback), b) snow covered road where the "piling up" of snow in front of the wheel helps.
...People like you will keep propogating this myth and disinformation, and it must stop here...
OMG, what an arrogant comment. Do you work for the IIHS, NHTSA, or a major insurance carrier?
In this case, I picked the first reference from your google search and read the second paragraph that contained this line:
It isn't entirely clear that antilock braking will reduce stopping distance for the skilled driver
First off, 99% of the drivers on the road today are not even close to the class of 'skilled driver' Reaction times, distractions, lack of any formal training, and a variety of other factors make ABS the BEST option for vehicles on the road today. Have you ever been to a driving school on a closed track with an instructor in the car at all times? Perhaps you have, but most of the drivers on the roads today have not.
A skilled driver can stop better without ABS brakes (particularly on dry pavement) using a technique called threshold braking. Essentially, threshold braking is when a driver applies the maximum amount force on the brakes to slow the car without locking the wheels. If executed properly, the wheels will not lock, but actually move slower than the rotational speed required to maintain speed on the pavement. It tends to work best in an open-wheeled race car, but the technique also applies to roadgoing cars. Anti-lock brakes will hinder this technique. Check racing literature -- using this technique yields shorter stopping distances then punching the brake on an ABS-equiped vehicle.
Your comment about threshold braking is so funny, because ABS is computer controlled threshold braking. While racing on the track, most vehicles are without ABS brakes due to the fact that the race driver can't afford the weight of a braking management system, and they want to be able to have zero interferience when appying brakes, just the same when a driver wishes to have no traction management system on a race car. These systems limit the amount of feedback required when 100% of your focus is going towards the "line".
ABS brakes also tend to limit the ability of a driver to use another technique called trail-braking (and left-foot braking). These are braking techniques used to offset the balance of the vehicle in a corner and tighten up the line through a corner. This is used in both racing situations and emergency avoidance manuvers.
Ask your closest co-worker is he knows how to apply trail-braking in emergency avoidance stituations... I doubt they will have any idea of what you are talking about. Trail braking is not as simple as you think.
Additionally, having ABS tends to make drivers over-confident -- many tend to steer during heavy braking, which unloads the rear tires of a car and can easily cause a vehicle to spin out of control...or cause a sport-ute to roll.
Many drivers prefer ABS brakes -- which is fine. Its their choice. In fact, for most drivers, ABS is better...but the absolute mentality you have is just wrong.
ABS reduces stopping distances when the typical driver actuates the brake pedal to it's fullest, fact.
nice one dumba$$
Everyone seems to be focusing on wether the vest itself is of any use, but the fact is the inflatable vest idea is old (and probably proven?). The tech advancement is using a wireless deployment transmitter/reciever, "Previous motorcycle airbags used a ripcord that could accidentally inflate the bag" -pop-sci article. The image of biker with a ripcord to his accidently inflated vest riding down the freeway is pretty hillarious though.
About 30 years ago Popular Science had an article about a new type of motorcycle with a simple roll cage. The rider sat in a bucket seat, wearing an aircraft-style combination shoulder and lapbelt. The cage looked minimal but supposedly in tests you could lay the bike down on pavement at high speed and walk away without a scratch. I always wondered why those things never went into production.
There is a japanese company who made vests explicitly for motorcyclists that inflated when a tether attached to the bike was pulled years ago. It came in several dsigns and protection layers. As I recall it protected the areas that Neil Stephenson described in S.C.
Gotta have those peril-sensitive sunglasses too.
In Italy they have been selling airbags for motorcycles for many years already. I was thinking to get one for me about 5 years ago.
I swear.. the only reason they make bond movies is to advertise the newest gadgets and the newest sexy hollywood models. In The World Is Not Enough, Bond has a suit-like thing like this that inflates into a round ball. They use it to survive an avalanche.
Yes, ABS is a huge advantage for autocrossers and novice time trial-ers/track drivers. No, ABS is not threshold braking...its a pulsing wheel lock. There's a difference. No, trail-braking and left-foot braking are certianly not simple techniques, and take time to master. I do not believe that I overlooked that in my post. However, postings like this tend to elicit a response from me. Should my car have to be equipped with ABS brakes? The post that I responded to sounded like the typical Nater-like propaganda where, if widespread enough, we will all be required to have these contraversial "safety devices" in our cars. Like those stupid automatic shoulderbelts. Or, more to the point, mandatory airbags. (Don't get me started on seatbelt and helmet laws for adults.) Do you want mandatory ABS? Its your money, and you should be able to decide what safety features you want in your car. I'll decide what I want in my car. I'd think that as a fellow enthusiast, you would share some of that sentiment.
-Turkey
this is the last thing we need.
motorcyclists should use no protective gear, no helmets and certainly no airbags.
Maybe then they'd think a little more about their riding, and wouldn't CONSIDER riding fast enough to generate 10Gs of deceleration.
Give them the tools to protect themselves at speed and what happens? they push the limits of that speed.
Think about it... how much damage can you do falling over while standing still?
..when you're dumb.
Uncle Darwin was telling you and your croaked squid friends something, and it wasn't "Bikes are dangerous."
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You sure got a purty mouth...
Live with it. I ride 25,000 miles a year and I accept and live with the risk.
You don't like that risk? Drive a car like all the other cagers.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
The topic is a motorcycle safety device. The post you replied to is about motorcycle safety. It's also good advise for anyone, no matter what vehical they're in/on. There's nothing off-topic or troll-like about the post at all.
Next time, listen to Ray, or get your own lawyer.
Aren't you dead?
If 10g is the deceleration before the accident, what kind of deceleration do you have duringthe accident?
-- There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Dainese is a respected name in race leathers. But no one on the GP circuit uses these exploding vests.
Racers fall down freqently, and even with the best gear sometimes get injured. It's worth a lot to a racer to not miss a race because of injury. Yet none of the GP racers are using inflatable vests.
The vests would seem to protect only the rider's trunk. That's the least injured part, most injuries are to the extremities as they flop around while the rider is tumbling.
My guess is that is why no racers are using them.
Trunk injuries may be more frequent on the street where there are cars to run over a downed rider. But I don't think the vest will do much to protect a rider from a direct hit by a car.
All in all, the inflatable vest seems to be pretty useless. I won't be riding in one any time soon.
So what does it take to set one off? A good hard punch to the sensor? Thrown beer bottle? How embarassing is that!? Sure, they're designed to go off when they need to and not go off accidentally, but what about deliberate attempts to trigger them? If they ever become popular, will this become as good a way to start a bar brawl as walking up an insulting a guy's bike? Hey, drivin' an underpowered riceburner like that, I bet you really *need* to wear this airbag!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I used to ride a small sportbike down in Georgia and I have always wondered how people can ride without a face shield. Sometimes after just about 45 minutes of riding I would have to clean the visor to see. Also the sound of a Junebug hitting your helmet at 80+ mph is like a rifle shot.
Yay australia!!!!
I could drive around, taking down license plates, narcing people out...hmmm...mental note: Move to australia, live out revenge fantasies.
You can't take the sky from me...
If you can't convince some macho headed, herd mentality bike rider to wear a helmet for their own saftey what possible chance do you have of getting them to invest in a hi-tech vest that'll cover up their designer leather gear?
Just drive through a "worry later" state like NH and you'll see that about 90% of the bike riders are convinced that their skulls are invulnerable. Maybe they realize that there is nothing vital in their heads?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
The day these new laws were announced they were inundated with people calling 000 (our emergency number) to report people throwing out ciggerettes from cars. The next day there was big anouncement (radio/television/etc) not to call 000 unless it was an emergency.
--
othy
By the dangers associated with a sluggish bureaucracy. It's not an active block as in "You can't import this." It's a passive one as in "You can import it, but we may make your lives miserable and ruin your company when we decide to get around to making rules on your type of product."
they cannot fill it with helium. That way, when the motorcyclist gets into an accident, he will safely float away from the scene (as opposed to just his spirit).
Please check out Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures, Volume 1: Technical Report by H.H. Hurt et al. (available from Drive Aware). Note that this isn't a study by a motorcycle group-- it's a state of california study.
The relevant conclusion (among many) is that "In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents." It seems to me that the vast majority of car drivers are very much aware of the other cars and trucks on the road, and pay attention to them. They're not often paying attention to little buzzy things that haven't enough mass to seriously damage their car (unless the cyclist gets tossed through their windshield, which tends to get a bit messy.)
As far as people sharing lanes in rush hour traffic, that's legal in california. Here's the link to the CHP FAQ:
Q: Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?
A:Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.
Doing 80 on the freeway? Stupid in the same way that drivers in their Civics with 8 foot spoilers doing 90 are stupid. Often with the same result-- unfortunately it's usually an innocent person that gets killed in those wrecks. Check the Hurt study again-- 92% of motorcycle accidents involve riders that haven't been trained. The most important thing they teach you in rider courses is how to deal with the inattentive drivers around you. That's the single most important thing to learn to keep yourself from getting turned into a red smear.
1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
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Thanks for the backup man. I'm reading all these replies, and I'm thinking "where the hell did all these professional drivers come from? I thought I was reading Slashdot, not 'performance monthly'".
Best of all, I like the following quotes from his reply to you:
if widespread enough, we will all be required to have these contraversial "safety devices" in our cars. Like those stupid automatic shoulderbelts. Or, more to the point, mandatory airbags. (Don't get me started on seatbelt and helmet laws for adults.)
Jeesus H. C. "don't get me started on seatbelts"??? Nice.
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Yes, ABS is a huge advantage for autocrossers and novice time trial-ers/track drivers.
I'd think that as a fellow enthusiast, you would share some of that sentiment.
Ummm, dude, this is Slashdot. Not "Performance Driving Monthly". It's full of average people. Blkdeath's post, the one I responded to, was written in such a way that average people reading it would be lead to believe that ABS is BAD for EVERYONE, including them. NO-ONE was talking about "expert drivers", and we don't want all the average morons in the world thinking that they're better off without ABS braking.
Of course you should be allowed to do whatever the hell you want to on the track. And you've got a damn good point that perhaps ABS shouldn't be mandatory or be hard to disable. I'll let you argue with the Naderites if the only people on the public roads without ABS should be licensed.
if widespread enough, we will all be required to have these contraversial "safety devices" in our cars. Like those stupid automatic shoulderbelts. Or, more to the point, mandatory airbags. (Don't get me started on seatbelt and helmet laws for adults.)
Ummm, I'm not even going to touch that one. You're on your own, and now I think you're an idiot.
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You are one of the Naderites if you feel that everyone who buys a car has to buy ABS -- that's my whole point with all of this shit -- personal safety laws are stupid. Whose body is it anyway?
Now who the fuck do you think you are? Would you talk like that to my face, or is it OK to talk shit like that because you're posting on Slashdot? I was never rude to you like that. If you had something nasty to say to me, you should have just kept it to yourself.
You may think that I'm an idiot -- but I am certain that you're a cowardly putz.
-Turkey
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:) ), and then go on to discuss the waitresses hot ass.
;)
I *said*... And you've got a damn good point that perhaps ABS shouldn't be mandatory or be hard to disable.
And I wouldn't call a person who thinks mandatory seatbelt laws and airbags a "Naderite", afaik it was a whole lot of Conservatives and Republicans who passed that one.
You may think that I'm an idiot
Now that's the interesting thing about online interaction - you are much more likely to find out what someone really thinks, as opposed to the usual real-world facade.
I'm certain I would have argued with you in a bar if you were one of my friends. It happens all the time when politics and other stuff start getting discussed at 10pm after 6 beer, and someone touches on a subject that one person has touchy sensitivities about.
Of course IRL you and I wouldn't take great personal offense at one another, because we would have spent the other 4/5ths of the night talking about things we have in common or both find funny. But online the person you're facing has usually *just* appeared for this one topic that you are arguing about. So there isn't any cameraderie(sp). Furthermore all you're looking at is the raw text that says "I think you're an idiot for holding that opinion". In a bar, we'd just agree to disagree (with raised voices after 30 minutes of haggling of course
Hmmm, I've got to remember all that before the next time I call someone an idiot to their face
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and if we're playing old distributions... whatever happened to Yggdrasil? :)
\\swing: everybody who tried to pronounce it got their tongue in a knot and choked
-- #Debian
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