Enterprise Getting New Aliens, Hairdos, Weapons

Steve Krutzler writes "The news about Enterprise's radical "new direction" for its third season is going mainstream on May 10th in TV Guide. Rick Berman reveals that the season finale will bring about major changes in the struggling Star Trek series for next year including new aliens, new weapons, new hairdos and a mission he calls a Star Trek "first."" I've felt like the show has been slipping all season, so here's hoping.

Comments

Borg

[dsyu]

Just somehow bring the Borg into an episode. That'll sell it. Oh wait, they're already doing that....

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll do that in the last episode probably, because the Borg will just wipe out that poor excuse of a starship :)

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

"Just somehow bring the Borg into an episode. That'll sell it. Oh wait, they're already doing that.... "

Even if this ep bombs, there's still some potential here. (Note: I'll never forgive Voyager for pussifying the Borg.)

What this episode proves (assuming a rumor I read is true...) is that Enterprise takes place after the Enterprise-E visited Earth in First Contact. There are a few ramifications here. This closes up most of the continuity holes that people keep bitching about, which means that Enterprise isn't locked any particular chain of events. Earth could go into a bloody war with the Vulcans.

The potential here is that the future of the Federation could be rewritten. Anybody remember "Yesterday's Enterprise" where the Enterprise-C jumped into the future and altered the timeline?

Even more interesting, what if we're watching the chain of events that caused the Federation to behave more like an Empire in the paralell universe that Kirk found himself in due to a transporter accident?

In any case, it's up to to the B&B team to actually make good use of this. I'm not ready to bet money yet. I can say, though, that last night's episode had a rather startling ending. If that's a sign of things to come, then we might start to see DS9's style of drama percolating up to Enterprise. That'd be a welcome evolution for this series. It is a little on the sterile side.

Re:Borg

[hpa]

What this episode proves (assuming a rumor I read is true...) is that Enterprise takes place after the Enterprise-E visited Earth in First Contact.

Given the fact that First Contact introduced the first Earth warp ship, bar none, wouldn't you say that's pretty well established already?

Re:Borg

[Jeremy Erwin]

Nah. The Borg are old hat. Now, species 8472 might make a good Enterprise alien.

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

"Given the fact that First Contact introduced the first Earth warp ship, bar none, wouldn't you say that's pretty well established already? "

No. That ship happened before the Enterprise went back in time. The reason that the Enterprise-E was involved with repairing (not building) that ship was because the Borg Sphere attacked it.

B'sides, most of the people I've heard bitching about the continuity of Enterprise don't seem to recognize the time-line is different, even though you're pretty much beaten over the head with the Temporal Cold War that was introduced in the pilot. Either people just like to bitch or they're just plain non-observant.

"Wait a minute! They can't meet the Feringi, Picard first met the Feringi! WTF?! Damn Brannon and Berman!" -- I've seriously heard that stupid comment. They can remember a passing detail in an old ep of TNG, but they can't remember the Temporal Cold War, First Contact, or the that the NX-01 left space dock several days earlier than planned. Heh.

Okay, that rant was pretty geeky. I just find it startling that people can be beaten over the head with information and still not get it.

Re:Borg

[orcus]

"Just somehow bring the Borg into an episode. That'll sell it. Oh wait, they're already doing that.... "

Even if this ep bombs, there's still some potential here. (Note: I'll never forgive Voyager for pussifying the Borg.)


Excuse me? I believe ST:TNG did it first, in "I, Borg" from Season V, the Borg were well on their way to being domesticated.

Voyager had more lame episodes than good ones, but don't blame them for screwing up the Borg.

Re:Borg

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

"Even if this ep bombs, there's still some potential here. (Note: I'll never forgive Voyager for pussifying the Borg.)"

Actully I think most would agree putting some pussy in the borg was a nice move.

Re:Borg

[pdbogen]

Not to mention the fact that they talk about Zephram Cochrane (Guy who invented terran Warp technology)'s first ship, as well as a later ship (primitive transwarp?) that caused him to disappear.

Re:Borg

[The Monster]

I already covered this over a month ago. Any and all discontnuities with the established TOS/TNG/DS9/Voyager timeline are explained away by First Contact.

Re:Borg

[h3llfish]

Ok, a different timeline is one thing, but the word "before" just can't be correct. The whole enterprise series by definition takes place long after the time of Cochran and Company. Not before - after.

I understand what you're saying... you mean that from the point of view of Archer and crew, the past has not yet been sullied by the intrustion of the Borg and Picard. I'm not really sure what difference that makes though, since it's been established that Picard and co "fixed" the past so that it was close enough to what had originally occured that there were no significant differences.

That being the case, then why does it matter if Archer is in the same timeline or not? It's a given that the future can be changed... we've seen that again and again. So anything that happens to Archer has ramifications for all subsequent events. But if Berman was so bold as to say that events had become so messed up that all of the things in previous shows didn't happen, wouldn't we then have to form a mob and KILL him?

Shawn

A trekkie who has had sex with actual girls... and has the pictures to prove it.

Re:Borg

[Restil]

Actually, Picard's encounter with the Ferrengi was THAT CREW's first encounter with them. The ferrengi were even mentioned in the farpoint episode, and Riker acknowledged that he both knew about them and had enough information to offer a retort to the comment made about them.

However, if the Ferrengi didn't get too involved in the early years, they would have been mostly ignored for a couple centuries. The Federation had bigger fish to fry back in Kirk's day. The Ferrengi probably never established themselves as a significant race until the TNG timeline.

-Restil

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

"The Federation had bigger fish to fry back in Kirk's day. The Ferrengi probably never established themselves as a significant race until the TNG timeline."

I think you make a good point here. To expand on it a bit, I'd like to point out that it's ridiculous to take everything that a character says as fact. In real life, people make mistakes all the time. For example, I referred to Nazi Germany as being Communist once. Boy did I get my butt chewed here over that. Why can't characters in a TV show be that flawed?

"-Restil "

Ooo Red Dwarf fan.

Re:Borg

[silentbozo]

If you read the William Shatner books (the ones where Kirk is resurrected by the Borg) you'll find that the explaination for the "evil" mirror universe is that the intrusion of the Borg, and the cultural contamination of the First Contact Cochran & Co. creates a Vulcan/Starfleet that is expansionist in nature.

There's no indication that this is the case with the Archer timeline, but as Berman has clearly demonstrated (assuming that Earth really does get wasted big-time next season) THIS IS NOT THE SAME TIMELINE AS KIRK/TNG. Ergo, the future in Enterprise is NOT the same TNG we all know and love (or in the case of Voyager, hate with a rabid mania.)

I think this is a GOOD thing, as it gives Berman a lot of freedom to play with. The question is whether he's actually making good use of that freedom...

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

"I understand what you're saying... you mean that from the point of view of Archer and crew, the past has not yet been sullied by the intrustion of the Borg and Picard"

No, I'm saying that the timeline that Archer exists in, Picard and the Borg *have* changed the time line. The big startling clue here is that the NX-01 was named Enterprise, yet the NX-01 was never mentioned in any of the other series. This wouldn't be a big deal except the ready room on the Enterprise-D depicts all of the ships named Enterprise starting with the aircraft carrier in service today.

" I'm not really sure what difference that makes though, since it's been established that Picard and co "fixed" the past so that it was close enough to what had originally occured that there were no significant differences."

Not really. We're missing a key bit of information here: Did the Enterprise-E return to the timeline it originally came from, or did it show up in the post-FC timeline? That isn't clear, and the method of travel used makes the answer to that question a bit fuzzy. We (the audience) don't know for sure what happened right after that.

"That being the case, then why does it matter if Archer is in the same timeline or not? It's a given that the future can be changed... we've seen that again and again. So anything that happens to Archer has ramifications for all subsequent events. But if Berman was so bold as to say that events had become so messed up that all of the things in previous shows didn't happen, wouldn't we then have to form a mob and KILL him?"

The point I was making is that STTNG, TOS, DS9, even VOY took place happened before the time-line was polluted. Archer exists in the polluted time-line. That means that no matter what happens in Enterprise, the original series would be completely in tact. Confusing? Watch Back to the Future 2. That movie explains what I'm talking about better than I can here on Slashdot. There'd be no reason to get mad at Berman over it, they found a unique way to tell a new story. It'd be boring if we saw a documentary of passing references over 24 seasons of Star Trek.

Re:Borg

[aanantha]

I agree that there is a potential for history to be rewritten, but I think the "Yesterday's Enterprise" episode would be a bad example. In the time travel scenarios in the original Star Trek and the The Next Generation, we've been seeing self reenforcing loops in time.

Take "Yesterday's Enterprise". If the Enterprise-D had never helped the Enterprise-C in the "original" timeline, wouldn't the C have been destroyed? They were on the verge of destruction before they went forward in time. My understanding was that history had never really been rewritten, except for the short span of time where the "C" had gone into the future. When the "C" went back, they eventually caused the Klingon-Federation peace treaty and the normal timeline was made possible. Nothing the "C" did has caused the normal timeline to be any different from our perspective. Any evidence of Tasha Yar existing in the past was erased as far as the Federation knew until Sela Yar made her appearance later.

Also, in the "Voyage Home", the Enterprise crew didn't make any changes to the past that we'd be aware of. A couple of whales and a whale researcher disappeared. Kirk sold off his pair of glasses, which he later re-acquired as antiques. Scotty gave away transparent aluminum technology, but then points out that maybe the guy he gave it to was recorded as the inventor anyway.

And in "First Contact", we don't really know that history turned out to be any different than the way the Next Generation crew had originally perceived it. There hasn't (yet) been any evidence of it. Cochrane did everything they remembered him doing. And in all the cases where they divulged the future to Cochrane, it might have made him do all the things they remembered him to have done.

The only case I remember of a non-sustaining loop in time was that TNG episode where the Enterprise-D kept getting destroyed until Data figured out what message to send back to get them out of the loop. That might establish the possibility in Trekdom that history can be rewritten. All that Star Trek series might just be one iteration of that non-sustaining loop.

That would be really lame of B&B to do this. But I wouldn't put it past them. They've already demonstrated that they have little regard for Roddenberry's work. Hasn't Braga been quoted as saying that he didn't like the original Star Trek series? Honestly, if those guys want to rejuvinate Star Trek they don't need to rewrite Star Trek history. They could try sticking to the spirit of Star Trek instead of just recycling old plots and techonobabble. How often did the original Star Trek revisit planets or mention the events of previous episodes? Star Trek 2 might have been the first time that's happened.

But I'm not saying that every episode should be independant. Babylon 5's strength was that hardly anything happened in an episode that wasn't important later on. But even Babylon 5 had a introduction, middle, and conclusion. It was like a novel told over 5 years. But there was a real ending, and the ending had signficance. But Star Trek just drags on now. If B&B want creative freedom, maybe they shouldn't have made a show that occurs between First Contact and the original Star Trek. Haven't we explored Vulcans to death by now? It was interesting the first time around with Spock, and probably because he was only half Vulcan.

Re:Borg

[martyn s]

What do you guys mean exactly, by "pussifying the borg" and all that? How exactly were they "domesticated"? I'm not disagreeing, just asking.

Re:Borg

[NFNNMIDATA]

I think Trek writers are taking a simpler approach than you propose. In First Contact it is made clear that the borg went back in time and messed with Picard's timeline; they even comment that they were protected from being erased by being in the wake of the borg ship. Same universe, same timeline. See what I mean? If it's true that Picard's interference would open a different, parallel timeline for Archer to exist in, why wouldn't the borg's interference do the same, thus botching their plan? What would be the point in the borg messing with the past if it didn't affect their specific future in their own timeline?

Re:Borg

[DNS-and-BIND]

I think the Trek writers are doing whatever seems expedient to them at the moment, and not caring a fig for canon or How Things Happened.

Re:Borg

[ttyRazor]

A single Cube managed to tear up dozens of starships at Wolf 359, yet somehow Voyager manages to evade assimilation or destruction by dozens of various borg vessels at once on numerous occasions.

Re:Borg

[Cpt_Kirks]

The theory is that there an infinite number of alternate timelines. Every possible variation would exist.

By definition, messing with the past would create an alternate future. If you returned to a changed future it would not be your timeline.

Re:Borg

[Cpt_Kirks]

In the TOS timeline, Cochrane got nabbed by a horny, female energy cloud.

Re:Borg

[Cpt_Kirks]

Not that I disagree, but in one case the cube was simply cutting a path through the fleet. Plus, having the Star Fleet flagships captain as tactical officer didn't hurt.

With Voyager, the borg was just looking for some assimilation. Also, the shoe was on the other foot. Janeway had a pet borg to help out.

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

You have the most annoying sig ever! I'm sure you have alot of friends when you correct them all the time like an anal fag!

(BTW, what happened to the "Post Anonymously" button? What? I have to log out to troll now? Sheesh!)

Re:Borg

[Guppy06]

Screw that. If they want lots of space battles and bloodshed, shouldn't the Earth-Romulan War be coming up soon? Give the humans a chance to vent some anti-pointy-ears aggression on some green-blooded targets...

Re:Borg

[jtrascap]

"The big startling clue here is that the NX-01 was named Enterprise, yet the NX-01 was never mentioned in any of the other series. " Ahem - the big, startling clue here is that the Enterprise never met these MARKETING people before. I betcha there was a round-table on this ("But 'nX' sounds so much more cool than just 'n', and we want that demographic")

Re:Borg

[NFNNMIDATA]

Right, so why would the borg bother with time travel when it would not affect their existence in any way? Why would the enterprise-e crew see the specific altered version of earth that the borg went back to change? By your statement the enterprise-e should see no change because an alternate timeline would have been created with the change, of which they would have had no knowledge. But they did see the change, and further were 'protected' from its effects. Same timeline. That's why I am saying I think the FC writers ignored that whole can of worms about the alternate timelines. It doesn't matter what is correct in theory, it just matters what the writers went with in FC for the purposes of this discussion.

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

" Ahem - the big, startling clue here is that the Enterprise never met these MARKETING people before. I betcha there was a round-table on this ("But 'nX' sounds so much more cool than just 'n', and we want that demographic") "

I know you're trying to be funny. (And it is funny to the uninitiated.) But I might as well show off my Trek knowledge that's kept me GF-less until about a year ago. The 'x' stands for eXperimental. The NX-01 is the first warp five ship bla bla bla. Remember the Excelsior from Trek 3? That had an NX registry also because it had the first 'trans-warp' drive. Then, when the Defiant came along in DS9, it also had an NX registry because it was an experimental war ship.

Okay, I'm sorry I sucked the fun out of your joke there, but I hang out on a 3D forum that likes Trek a lot. They have those discussions all the time and I participate in the debates once in a while. Heheh :)

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

TNG originally met the borg because Q threw them out into space. So if they encounter the borg again, earlier, it wouldn't really make sense. (Unless the new/old enterprise ship somehow gets destroyed before it can communicate the knowledge about the borg back home...)

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

"What would be the point in the borg messing with the past if it didn't affect their specific future in their own timeline? "

That's a good point. You have me pretty much cornered there. I doubt I can give you an answer that'll make you nod your head and say "yeah, he's right" but I can give you some food for thought. The Queen was along for the ride. Kinda strange, isn't it? The leader of the Borg would personally oversee this mission? What if the whole reason there was for her to conquer that time-line where she stands a better chance now that the humans are incapable of resistance? Maybe there were problems with the Borg the first time around and she wanted a do-over.

There are flaws in what I just said, though. The Queen's existence is strange. She was supposedly destroyed shortly after Wolf 359. Normally that would be explained as "Well, that was just a body for her." but then she makes that damn "You humans think in such 3-dimensional terms" comment. Maybe the humans wipe out the Borg down the road? (Voyager sort of hints at that, but it's hard to believe that they were thinking that far ahead at the time FC was made.) I dunno.
Maybe it's as simple as Commander Data making a mistake. Though I don't remember the line literally, I'd be willing to bet that Data says that the chroniton wake seems or appears to be protecting them from changes to the timeline. Maybe what he was observing was that the Earth was assymilated, but his view of history didn't reflect that. Maybe the Borg were intentionally spawning a new time-line to exist in. Maybe they want to conquer every time line, not just their own. For that to work, somebody has to get the ball rolling.

Anyway, please take my response as food for thought, not as an argument to what you're saying. I think you poked a pretty good hole in my PoV there. ;)

Re:Borg

[Drakkenfyre]

While Voyager may be the worst offender, the pussifying of the Borg began with the creation of the "Borg Queen" in First Contact.

The reason the Borg before and even in "The Best of Both Worlds" were so chilling was that they were a monolithic, faceless, compassionless, inhuman organism of one mind bent on consuming all to its purpose. But kind of like Communism, when you need a figurhead, you know you're in trouble.

Re:Borg

[jtrascap]

Hey - no problem. I'm just a fan since the first series came out when I was a kid.

I don't follow as much as I used to, since the dissolution of the utopian future by Bergman et al. The tone changed in DS9, too paranoid and political for my tastes. Then again I never did memorize the facts of any of the shows, but I did have the first Technical Manuals, went to the theatres on opening night and had a model hanging over my bed in 1967. I just enjoyed it.

DS9 was a waste of my time, as was Voyager - thinly-worked soap operas in space. I occasionally hope for better things from Enterprise (which I generally like) but it's losing my interest, cat-suit or not. Yawn. And I'm waiting for Archer to drop the "Aw, shucks" attitude and be a bit more gung-ho, like Kirk was. I miss the ol' coyboy sometimes, girdle and all.

I guess I'm no longer a fan, but just a typical VIEWER now. Could explain the numbers...

Re:Borg

[darien]

a monolithic, faceless, compassionless, inhuman organism of one mind bent on consuming all to its purpose. But kind of like Communism, when you need a figurhead, you know you're in trouble.

Then again, look how well the GOP's doing these days!

Re:Borg

[xaaronx]

I know you're not bringing Back To the Future into this. The movies are great (the best time travel movies after Bill and Ted), but they aren't consistent. If OUR Marty and Doc went back to Biff's paradise (which was a separate timeline), why weren't their other selves there, Marty's anyway. And anyway, if you can change the future you're not in a uni(multi?)verse with different timelines. If you are, no matter what you do, one you still lives out each life. All Marty did was create better and worse lives for his selves. Leaving aside the discussion of whether or not which foot I put on the stairs first creates two timeline, and the validity of time travel itself, there are only two ways you can seriously look at it. One is that there's one timeline, the one we're on. The other is pantheistic multiple-ego solipsism.

And how can anything have existed before the timeline was polluted?

Also, is time traveling the only way to create separate timelines. If so does each time traveler (or to simplify here, group of travelers) get to create one? One where the Borg win and one where Our Heroes do? Plus the original?

I can't follow the whole discussion because I'm always at work when Enterprise is on but if it does take place in another timeline, that sucks. But fits right in and at least gives the writers a reason to be inconsistent for once.

Re:Borg

[xaaronx]

But they can't show Romulans, remember.

Re:Borg

[Snaller]

Okay, that rant was pretty geeky. I just find it startling that people can be beaten over the head with information and still not get it.

Its not that the don't get it, its that they don't accept it as something intelligent to do. Like B&B just say to themselves, "oh well we can't write for this, infact we don't even wanna try, so we'll just invent this timeintereference thing, then we can do anything and not have to worry about continuity - and we can even reset everything in the final episode! Yeah, that's great!"

No it isn't great - not if its born out of incompetence.

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

There were 2 Marty's. 'Our' Marty just didn't run into the 'other' Marty.
Just because my twin brother is on the other side of town right now, it doesn't mean he doesn't exist, ya dig? :If OUR Marty and Doc went back to Biff's paradise :(which was a separate timeline), why weren't their :other selves there, Marty's anyway.

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

the only important thing to note from all this crap is that the vulcan chick is getting a new catsuit. Does all this 'temporal cold bs' matter other than that? I'm sure the new weapons are here erect nipples.

Re:Borg

[SubtleNuance]

USSR and Nazi Germany were state-capitalists.

Re:Borg

[Cpt_Kirks]

IIRC, Data stated that the reason the E-E crew saw earth "go borg" was that they were caught in the chronotonic particle "bloom" behind the sphere. In effect, they were in the flux of two timelines, until they went through the portal into the past. Since they were shielded from the effects of the time change caused by the borg, they retained their knowledge of their timeline, while viewing the borg-earth timeline.

As for the FC writers, they could ignore any alternate timelines created, since they had the E-E crew return to their own timeline.

Re:Borg

[bujoojoo]

Yeah, maybe they can assimilate Jenna Jamison...

Re:Borg

[Tukla]

If OUR Marty and Doc went back to Biff's paradise (which was a separate timeline), why weren't their other selves there

It's been a long time since I've seen the movie, but, AFAICR, Marty's counterpart wasn't around because Biff disliked him, probably because he knew Marty was George McFly's son, not his.

And, of course, Doc Brown's counterpart was in an insane asylum.

Re:Borg

[Martin Blank]

There was continuity in TOS with the character Harry Mudd, in episodes entitled (I think) "Mudd's Women" and "I, Mudd". Aside from that, though, I don't think there was any significant reuse of any plot points or characters.

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

silentbozo, talking about the fact that Enterprise is actually set in a completely different universe than other Treks said:

I think this is a GOOD thing, as it gives Berman a lot of freedom to play with

I agree. By doing that, they have ensured that many of us can avoid watching it without suffering from any worries that we will be missing important continuity. It cuts the ties of nostalgia that might have made some of us watch the show.

Since the first episode of Enterprise that I actually saw was "Dear Doctor", where the captain and doctor decide to commit genocide for purposes of some twisted eugenicist impulse, I don't watch the show. I cannot understand how anyone who has seen that episode can watch the show unless they have somehow mentally written it out of the series or are the sort of person that does not care about the characters at all. Whatever. It's tripe.

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

That cannot be correct. Marty never returns to his "original" timeline. Things have changed. Biff acting subservient to George, for one thing. Martys sister and brother have changed as well. If the alternate timelines he creates have a different Marty in them, then he should have woken up next to himself in the morning in the first movie.

Re:Borg

[Anonymous Coward]

The Borg have already been in the current series.

Re:Borg

[Arthur Dent]

Hasn't Braga been quoted as saying that he didn't like the original Star Trek series?

He didn't say he didn't like it. He said he'd never watched it and had no intention of doing so.

Re:Borg

[NanoGator]

" If OUR Marty and Doc went back to Biff's paradise (which was a separate timeline), why weren't their other selves there, Marty's anyway."

They were. Biff got the Doc labeled as insane and locked away in an asylum. I forget exactly what happened to Marty, but that was explained too. Biff didn't realize he was from the original timeline.

"Also, is time traveling the only way to create separate timelines. If so does each time traveler (or to simplify here, group of travelers) get to create one? One where the Borg win and one where Our Heroes do? Plus the original?"

Maybe that's how Time travel would work. I dunno. The problem is that if you travel through time, you can create a paradox. One way to prevent paradoxes from being destructive to the universe would be if it were to have some redundancy to it. Again, I don't know. It's not like we're working from proven temporal mechanics today.

Re:Borg

[monopole]

Two points.

The Borg were hopelessly pussified by the 'Hugh' Borg (I Borg). The 'Hugh borg' made Hello Kitty menacing by comparison. (Actually the borg appearing in the Enterprise will be assimilated forms of Hello Kitty and Badtz Maru)

If portions of the borg sphere survived and made contact with the Enterprise era collective, the resulting jump in borg tech in the next 200 years would render them invincible.

Re:Borg

[hesiod]

What is even more interesting is why anyone even cares. I'm not trying to demean anyone here, but seriously, it's TV show, meant to entertain. If it doesn't follow every single detail to a 'T' it's not that big of a deal. If they cared that much about continuity the stories would probably be longer (read: multi-episode) like most Jap-Anime I have seen so far.

Re:Borg

[fredklein]

No, No, No. Any and all discontnuities with the established TOS/TNG/DS9/Voyager timeline are explained away by the TEMPORAL COLD WAR.

You see, eventually, there will be a story arc that includes several episodes of the last season of Enterprise. That arc will lead to a major temporal change that will result in:

1) the non-existance of the Suliban (which is why we never hear of them in the other series)

2) a change to Vulcan society, such that Mind-melds are no longer conidered 'abnormal'.

3) Changes to a LOT of other, "minor" things such that almost every episode of Enterprise we've seen up to that point never really happened. This fixes all the continuity problems.

The last few episodes of Enterprise will be Archer and/or the Enterprise Crew adjusting to the new existance, and deciding what to say/not say to their superiors about what they know/don't know.

Re:Borg

[The Monster]

Perhaps the first 'shot' of the TEMPORAL COLD WAR was the Borg going back to try to prevent Cochran's warp signature from being detected by the Vulcans.

A Star Trek "First"?

[Ieshan]

What's going to happen, a trekkie is going to lose his virginity?

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[MMaestro]

Only when we see Chewie shaved bald.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[NineNine]

What's going to happen, a trekkie is going to lose his virginity?

Sure that could happen... in an episode where they travel to an alternate dimension.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Motor]

Pfff. A Star Trek "first?" What's betting it turns out to be a rubbishy time travel episode. They'll probably find a way to shoehorn the Borg in there too.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Anonymous Coward]

What they mean by bringing in new aliens is bringing in more attractive aliens. The main reason a lot of people wach enterprise is to see if T'Pol will show some skin (at least my "little brother" :) does)

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[TexVex]

You didn't see the trailer after last night's episode? Apparently they ARE going to involve the Borg. Next week.

I wasn't particularly thrilled with last night's episode. And if they're bringing the Borg into the mix, then that just might cross my threshold of tolerance for how Star Trek history is being rewritten.

Ugh!

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Tackhead]

> I wasn't particularly thrilled with last night's episode.

I called "Stereotypically Feminist PC Federation Psychobabble!" in the first 5 minutes (just like last week when I yelled out "Jews vs Arabs!" in last week's trailer :-), then groaned and MST3Kd my way through the next nauseatingly Federationally-Correct 45 minutes of the episode, but I'll give credit where it's due: the Captain finally grew a pair and started acting like a Captain for once. (I woulda demoted the guy, but at least I got to see him get a righteous chewing-out.)

Sometimes being in command means you don't get to impose Federation Values on everyone, and sometimes being Federationally-Correct is the wrong thing to do. Pity it was only in the last 10 minutes. But the last 10 minutes turned another nauseating indoctrination-fest into at least a salvageable episode. A few more like that, and I might stop watching Enterprise for more than MST3K value.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Jeremy Erwin]

Don't worry. We'll learn some years from hence (or perhaps sooner) that Archer's adventures will lead to a radical restructuring of the universe. The Earth will be plunged into a technological dark age, and lose all technology more advanced than what would later appear on James T Kirk's enterprise. Earth will lose half of its astrogation knowledge, allowing Picard'e encounter with the Borg in "unexplored space" to seem novel. And the Klingons will indulge in cosmetic surgery.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[TexVex]

I simply didn't find the plot believable. An adult member of that species became literate in under a day. How the hell could someone THAT INTELLIGENT utterly fail to become at least someone educated simply by being around written words and people who talk? I'm supposed to believe that 3% of that species' population never learned anything or had any motivation whatsoever, despite the fact that their sole purpose involved them moving from couple to couple doing their cogentior thing? That's just hard to swallow. Unless you are keeping them locked up in boxes and only taking them out to breed, they'd have to learn something merely by being awake.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[AmateurCoder]

I didn't see the trailer either but after you mentioned it I checked out the summary of the next episode at upn.com/shows/enterprise . Here it is:

"Regeneration"

An excavation team on Earth makes an astounding discovery when they uncover a pair of never-seen-before cybernetic aliens (Borg drones) buried in the Arctic Circle. When these aliens mysteriously revive themselves and take off into space in one of the Earth ships, Enterprise is called upon to investigate and stop them. Meanwhile, as Archer and the crew close in on the fleeing aliens, the drones send a signal back to The Collective meaning regardless of what happens in this fight, humans and the Borg are destined to meet again.

I totally agree with you that including the borg into the preqel series would ruin it.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[nkv]

Probably in an incident that involves one of 'em Plasma conduits. They're all over the place.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[anonymous loser]

This is exactly why I watch the show. I like to think of it as Enterprise, starring Jolene Blalock's Ass.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Anonymous Coward]

When i feel like checking out some fine ass i just watch a porno. But thats because i'm a grown up.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[anonymous loser]

That's funny. Porno is something I thought was cool when I was 13, but now think of as immature. Of course to each their own.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

" You didn't see the trailer after last night's episode? Apparently they ARE going to involve the Borg. Next week.

I wasn't particularly thrilled with last night's episode. And if they're bringing the Borg into the mix, then that just might cross my threshold of tolerance for how Star Trek history is being rewritten"

This is just simple the Prquel Paradox. You did all the stuff lateron allready, so you can't introduce new stuff, because that should have been shown in the later. If your good you can do it but it's hard. But what's really bad is you can't bring in something that first came up in the later. Not much you can do, you just try your best. All they need to do is have some memory erasor (sp) thing later on to fix it.

Similar think about Star wars. Lucus can work the story ok, but how is he ever going to make things go from hoover ships and cool sporters nubean ships and what not, to everything looks like a garbage truck and no nice places, and no hoover ships. He's getting screwed by technolgy, he could have avoided it by making the new ones with 70's tech, but then again he's george lucas.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[AndroidCat]

I totally agree with you that including the borg into the preqel series would ruin it.

Don't worry, they'll only meet Pakkled drones. "We need things to make us go. Resistance is .. a pretty hard word."

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Motor]

You didn't see the trailer after last night's episode?

No... I'm in the UK.

Apparently they ARE going to involve the Borg.

Oh dear. They really do need new writers, don't they.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Lars T.]

And those drones managed to survive the First Contact, I guess.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Tyrdium]

Nah, Worf already explained the Klingon part in "Trials and Tribblations" (or however you spell it).

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Lars T.]

Maybe they need some old writers (but Borgman and Blather).

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[pipingguy]

What's going to happen, a trekkie is going to lose his virginity?

Furthermore, is this "groundbreaking" season finale going to be broadcast in May?

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> and no hoover ships

You're thinkin' of Spaceballs, foo'!

Feelin' a tug. Come on....come on...

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Dark Lord Seth]

No, the Enterprise encounters a large unchartered cloud of hydrogen, helium and various heavy elements. Further scanning concludes, without any incidents happening, that the large cloud of hydrogen, helium and various heavy elements is indeed a large cloud of hydrogen, helium and various heavy elements. Or:

The Enterprise and her crew encounter a new species, who after careful consideration and non-rash diplomatic talks agrees to sign a peace treaty with the federation. Technology and businees booms as trade starts between the federation and the new species, who aren't afflicted with some sort of plague, who aren't warlike and who don't have any custms that piss of any runaway Federation captains with ships too small for their ego. Or either:

The Enterprise and her crew suddenly realize that time has shifted ahead one hour! After several days of frantic, though conservative research and violating NO protocols regarding temporal stuff, they simply realize the Federation has instituted daylight savings and the relevant subspace message got thrown away along with the usual spam messages by the captain.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[ocelotbob]

Hey, it's a better idea than the Borg ;3. Seriously. Reintroduce some of those one-off species that was good for an episode or two. The Pakkled's odd combination of being spaceworthy and simple, for example. There's got to be a story there. Probably several, actually. Similar story goes for other species that are seen once, then never again.

I think the problem here is that Berman sees the Borg as a cure-all for weak plots when that's clearly not the case. Ricky boy needs to give it up, that horse he's beating, it's not just dead, there's nothing left of it but a few pieces of fetid flesh and a bunch of bones. The best course is to let someone else guide the show for a while, it's obvious that he can't hack it.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[G-funk]

Porno is something I thought was cool when I was 13, but now think of as immature.

Funny... I thought porno was cool when I was 13... Now I don't think it's cool, but I still watch it, because well, i like to watch people go at it.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

no, i'm thinking of those big ships that travel just above the ground and carry armies. They are definitly more advanced then a walker.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[lobsterGun]

The only way the a Borg prequel episode would work would be if they were antiques Borg based on vacuume tube/hydraulic technology. Hell! even I would tune in for that!

[ excerpt from script ]
Evil Pre-Borg carrying a bicycle pump and a light bulb approaches a crewman.

Crewman: Dude! what the hell are you doing?

Pre-Borg: I'm assimilating you. Please do not resist (attempts to jam lightbulb into crewmans neck)

Crewman: OW! goddammit! enough with that lightbulb already!

Pre-Borg: It's not a lightbulb, It's a vacuum tube.

Crewman: Whatever Poindexter. (Punches pre-borg. The sound of glass shattering is heard)

Pre-Borg: Fuck! (slumps to the ground)

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Guppy06]

Even more unbelievable: They'll start using realistic physics. Speed-of-light phase cannons won't work under warp any more.

Of course, I've heard that one is also against published dogma as well (only FTL weapons are supposed to be photon torpedoes), but I've seen them botch that one up at least once.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[illaqueate]

a third of the episodes are marxist narratives. like the one where they rescue the sulabon in camps, or the one where they rescue some miners from evil klingons (ref Seven Samurai), or the one where the "aliens" are just guys with soul patches on their chin; the cogenitor episode is the same except the ending reverses the regular polarity (hopefully it signals the death of that kind of episode)

some of the dialogue is not bad but the stories are terrible. the two episodes about flox and medical ethics are just dumb, so is the one about the intolerant doctors and vulcan mind melds or whatever; then they have a couple about disabling mines, or bombs, or whatever and their small talk is supposed to be a story

and yet i watch it every week anyway...

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[wirde]

So...
How many antique Borgs does it take to screw in a lightbulb into a crewman?

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Jon Chatow]

I woulda demoted the guy, but at least I got to see him get a righteous chewing-out.

I disagree. If I were the alien, I would have killed myself; if nothing else, when there's nothing left to do and no other form of protest possible, denying others of what they see as a 'valuable resource' is effective way of getting away from it all... It is not feasable to describe a social system that discriminates against others based on nothing except sex as a 'culture', and I, for one, do in no way respect such barabaric socio-ethnic groupings.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[dhaines]

Don't forget the part where none of the equipment gets damaged/overloaded/breached and no one has to repair/reprogram/override anything under extreme time pressure.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[xaaronx]

No, he just said they didn't like to talk about it.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[pmz]

What's going to happen, a trekkie is going to lose his virginity?

Soooo...where do trekkies come from in the first place? Are they mutants?

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe, maybe not. Those walkers seemed to be pretty hard for the massive ground based weapons the rebels had to destroy. They only seemed to be destroyable if the legs were tripped up, forcing the walker to fall over. The best conclusion I can come to is that the walkers contain very powerful energy shields that protect them from blasters. If shields of that strength require very massive shield generators, that might explain why they do not hover. They might be too heavy. Making the walker fall over has got to be like dropping the whole thing from a five story building. The shield generators probably rip free from their mounts inside the walker leaving the walker vulnerable to blasters.

If you don't buy that, maybe rebel scientists develop a way to nullify repulsor fields with less energy/effort than it takes to blow up a hover tank. The imperial response is vehicles that can walk for themselves.

Or, another theory. Consider the fact that TIE fighters do not have shields and that the Death Star does not just destroy all life on a planet, it completely annihilates the planet. The empire does not mind being wasteful of energy or killing huge numbers of its own people if it has the end result of intimidating its people. Maybe the walkers just look scarier.

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[PD]

It could be worse.

They could introduce an annoying little dog friend for Portheos, named "Scrappy Doo".

Re:A Star Trek "First"?

[SETIGuy]

Oh dear. They really do need new writers, don't they.

No, they need new producers. Berman and Braga have gotten into a "well, it got us ratings in the past, so it's gotta work this time, too" mentality.

I can pretty much guarantee that I won't be watching any more episodes of Enterprise unless those two become rapidly gone.

Tacheon fields

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean no more tacheon fields? I love dem fields.

Re:Tacheon fields

[Anonymous Coward]

There's nuthin' that can't be fixed with a tacheon field. Personally, I just think a couple of type 4 space anomalies would put the show on track.

Please god,

[Red Warrior]

No holodeck.
No Q

Re:Please god,

[Anonymous Coward]

Q was good.

No holodeck.
No Wesley. :-)

Re:Please god,

[Pharmboy]

Wait a second, I LIKE Q. I had heard that Q was going to visit them, but the main story didnt mention it.

Q has potential, and the early Q episodes were pretty good, I thought. The Voyager Q episodes kinda sucked tho.

More importantly, they will be stocking new weapons so they can destroy stuff, including people. This is worth waiting for. The better episodes so far (relatively speaking) have been where they focused on the weapons anyway. First use of photon torpedos (hinted to this on last night's episode, which was an ok episode)

Guess I'm just a typical American, I want to see them blow shit up.

Re:Please god,

[BabyDave]

Hey, it could be worse:

• [Archer] I'd like to introduce our newest crew member, Ensign Binks.
• [Binks] Meesa muy-muy pleased to meet allayousa
• [Trekkies everywhere] Right, where did I put that fully-functional replica phase pistol?

Re:Please god,

[BHearsum]

Er. Q visiting them would really mess up everything. It's blatany obvious the first TNG episodes that Q never came in contact with humans (that was recorded) before.

Now unless they're living in an entirely different timeline it won't work.

Re:Please god,

[Red Warrior]

I'm scared. PLEASE tell me you're not a screenwriter.

Re:Please god,

[Red Warrior]

Unless Q ran into subspace interference while taunting Picard on the holodeck and got sucked into a temporal wormhole created by the borg.

Re:Please god,

[B3ryllium]

Everything's okay - he works for FOX. We're safe.

Re:Please god,

[monopole]

Of course

Two Borgs... Therefore
One is Borgified Wesly Crusher
One is Borgified Q (This should eliminate any residual continuity or logic)

They trap the Enterprise in a primitive holodeck jerry-rigged from a PS2 running 'GTA3 Vice City'

As a result the new uniforms are 'Members Only' Jackets and the entire crew gets Flock of Seagulls haircuts.

Re:Please god,

[Pharmboy]

You KNOW they will get around it, because time is meaningless to the Q, so he could have visited Jean Luke before he visits Archer. At least that is THEIR story, and they would stick to it ;)

Re:Please god,

[amuro98]

Oh, and having Enterprise meet the Ferengi and the Borg isn't going to mess things up?

Having the Klingon homeworld only 3-5 days away at Enterprise's warp 5 isn't going to mess things up?

If you believe in a Federation with some dark aspects, it would be quite possible for Starfleet to simply mark reports about, say, Q as "need to know." Perhaps Picard wasn't the only one visited by Q in TNG, leading to the information about Q becoming more available.

But this only works because Q isn't a threat to mankind (if anything, they're just observing and cheering us on...) The Borg, on the other hand...

Maybe Starfleet's headquarters get nuked in the first war, and they don't have backups, and so they lose information about early contact with the Ferengi, Borg, etc...

Of course this all pivots on whether the writers actually care about creating a world/universe that has consistancy. So far, they've shown none.

Re:Please god,

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, it could be worse:
* [Archer] I'd like to introduce our newest crew member, Ensign Binks.
* [Binks] Meesa muy-muy pleased to meet allayousa
* [Trekkies everywhere] Right, where did I put that fully-functional replica phase pistol?

It could be REALLY good IF they give binks a redshirt and he's with the away grew ;-)

OH - wait RED shirts and mini-skirts are the stuff from the real trek!

Re:Please god,

[Anonymous Coward]

It could be worse (2):

Ensign Crusher reporting for duty, Sir.

Re:Please god,

[Pharmboy]

Maybe Starfleet's headquarters get nuked in the first war, and they don't have backups, and so they lose information about early contact with the Ferengi, Borg, etc...

Are you implying the Federation uses Windows? ;)

answer

[Anonymous Coward]

he doesn't know he's black

Re:question

[EdgeShadow]

'Cause he doesn't know he's black.

(Had to be said.)

Thank goodness!!!

[ciroknight]

FINALLY!!! That show was actually pretty lame compared to the Next Generation, and the sadest thing about it is they have the coolest looking Enterprize yet. Those Sovergn class Ships make the Galaxy class crusiers look so old and obsolete. Seriously though, they better do something awesome to avoid going down in history as the least watched star trek ever. First step: COME BACK TO MAINSTREAM CABLE PLEEEEEEASE!!!!!

Re:Thank goodness!!!

[Dr. Spork]

No, for the dignity of ST fans, this crap should go down in history as the least watched ST spinoff. Because it sucks. This way, at least history will record that we had some taste.

Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[ajuda]

what they need is new writers.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Faust7]

what they need is new writers.

Dude, if I had the power to get J. Michael Straczynski on board, I'd do it in a second.

Only thing is, he's used to working with coherent, well-planned, non-contradictory storylines. I doubt even he could save Enterprise or Trek as a whole at this point.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[exley]

Actually, I think what they need to do is give it a rest for awhile. There's only so much they can do before they're just rehashing or just plain ripping off old stories. It seemed to me like that's what Voyager became on several instances, and now we have Enterprise and the Borg showing up. I know it won't happen, but it would be great to see Trek completely disappear from the airwaves for several years. Just think how cool it must have been for the original series to go off the air in the late sixties, then show up again on the big screen a decade later. Well, great for the fans when TMP came out, at least. When The Motion Picture came out, fans had an appetite for Trek, one that we don't have anymore. And how can we, having had nothing but a bunch of crap with the name Star Trek attached (either officially or unoficially, as with Enterprise) shoved down our throats?

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[UberOogie]

Only thing is, he's used to working with coherent, well-planned, non-contradictory storylines.

Thank you for the best laugh I've had in at least a month. Whatever you're having, order me a double and put an umbrella in it.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently you aren't familiar with any of the other many works that JMS has done. Everything he touches turns to GOLD. The man is a master storyteller.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Jason1729]

What Trek needs is to dump Berman and his lackeys.

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[deander2]

> what they need is new writers.

ummm....let's see, how do i put this...

perhaps you mean "what they need ARE new writers"? :-P

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[LiquidCoooled]

J'kar from the naan homework is starring in the episode I'm watching now - it sent a shiver down my spine at first because you hear him before you see him - most spooky indeed.
the episode is Cogenitor by the way, and I know my alien (and earthbound!) spelling is awful.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[lowmagnet]

And it had decent writing, and a lack of a 'skimmer' accident! I was expecting something 'bad'* to happen to the captain.

* 'bad' in quotes because nothing is permanent in Trek, and 'bad' thing resolve in an hour.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Anonymous Coward]

What they really need is to get Pee Wee Herman to take over.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Laplace]

I'm surprised that you didn't hold up "Murder She Wrote" as a testament to your GOLD theory.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

Ummmmmmmm....Star Trek would kill for "Murder, She Wrote" ratings.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> What they really need is to get Pee Wee Herman to take over

Well, lusting for T'Pol is kind of like lusting for a 10 year old boy with breast implants.

Damnit! I've gotta ratchet down the cynicism pump tonight.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[jo_ham]

New hairdos eh?

So the Borg are going to go to the Babylon 5 universe, assimilate the Centauri and adapt the big hair to pull borg chicks.

Once they woo them they can use those 6 tentacle/penis things the Centauri have to great effect - I'm sure they could easily add vibrator technology with some cleverly placed borg tech.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Fulcrum of Evil]

What Trek needs is to dump Berman and his lackeys.

What Trek needs to do is die. Seriously, we need new blood.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[wahmuk]

No funny ears or noses, no transporters, no holodeck. An ensemble cast, humor, action... the works.

We had a great show like that, but Fox cancelled it after only half a season.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Jason1729]

With over 500 hours of content, the Trek universe is very rich and deep. There is a lot of potential to have a good sci-fi show and set it in the Star Trek.

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Guppy06]

"Dude, if I had the power to get J. Michael Straczynski on board, I'd do it in a second."

Only if you have a time machine to snag him from 5 years ago or so. Remember Crusade? Remember that Rangers movie? I'd rather have Voyager than to see D&D in space again...

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[LiquidCoooled]

if something "bad" was going to happen - surely they wouldv taken an ensign along for the ride ;)

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[xaaronx]

I believe that works either way. If you use "is" you consider "new writers" a thing: what they need.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Jarlsberg]

Ok, so the Ranger movie didn't really work. But Crusade rocked, and I'm really sad it didn't pan out.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Snaller]

JMS wrote something like 95% of all the episodes. Are you saying he was contradicting himself?

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Snaller]

I doubt even he could save Enterprise or Trek as a whole at this point.

Its never too late ... with the right captain at the helm (and i don't mean sulu!)

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if the original poster was saying that he contradicted himself, but I will say that he has problems with the well planned and the coherant part. Look at what he was telling Fen B5 would be before he got into production and look at what came out afterwards.

I still have his post on GEnie stating that his plan was not to write the story of the Babylon 5 station, but to write the story of Jeffery Sinclair. But he came up with the "better idea" after season one and you get what came about on screen.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[crumley]

Yeah, Crusade was good.

Funny thing is, this new direction for Enterprise sounds a lot like Crusade. A little bit like how DS9 plot arc aped B5's at some points. Of course that's not really fair DS9. There are only so many different directions you can go with stories. Plus a rather convincing arguement could be made that Crusade was JMS attempt to do a Star Trek: the Original Series on his terms in his universe.

Of course all bets are off if the next Trek series is a post-apocalyptic drama starring Jason Priestly and Lisa Bonet (like Jeremiah).

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[SubtleNuance]

Agreed. Can someone create a NEW SF series we can watch?

I liked Earth2 for example, not watched alot, but the idea of Robinson Curusoe in space was pretty good... I enjoyed the more recent Firefly tho I only watched 2 episodes..

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Kinthelt]

I wouldn't say that Crusade was on JMS's terms. TNT had a huge say in what was allowed and now allowed in the show.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[Wolfrider]

--Sometimes you wish the Mod point system went beyond 5. If it did, I'd mod you up even more.

Re:Forget about new aliens and hairdos...

[mink]

Crusade seemed way to much like Star Blazers (Space Battle Ship Yamato).

But, no!

[jonabbey]

I've been loving the show this season. Great characters, a focus on the kind of culture clash stories that TOS specialized in..

It sounds like they're not getting the ratings that they want, but I hope they don't change the show too much. An alien probe coming to earth which wreaks havoc? Haven't we seen that before?

Re:But, no!

[tbmaddux]

I've been loving the show this season.

While I won't say I'm loving it, it definitely shows signs of promise this season. "Cogenitor" and "The Breach" were both actually thought-provoking and well-written science fiction episodes that were not merely about the existence of cool tech or weird aliens, but explored their impacts. "Cogenitor" from the ads in particular looked like it was going to be pathetic and obvious, but it was not. And "Future Tense" was a very good science fiction action episode. It got me watching again.

So, I may not be loving, but I'm watching. Hopefully whatever this "new direction" is, it isn't back in the direction of more decontamination gel rubdowns.

Re:But, no!

[Planesdragon]

Dear god, not Cogenitor. I may never watch Enterprise again after that.

All Trip did was teach a person how to read--she killed herself. He is NOT responsible for her suicide, and Archer chewing trip out is just, well, so out of character I can't stand it.

TOS would have written it off as "a tradgedy", and Kirk certainy wouldn't have blamed Checkov for trying to teach someone how to read.

Hell, they should have let her go back, but perhaps foever cloistered but able to read... or had her die from "information overload" that the casual scan couldn't account for. Or just had her kill herself, and not have %!#$#@^Ting Berman make a subtle "America is bad for thinking our culture is right" line.

Re:But, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe you should give us some details about you...

how old are you, m/f, your hobbies, etc.

i think enterprise sucks.

i've watched all the previous ones, ng was good, ds9 had it's moments, voyager was tolerable on occassion. enterprise sucks.

i'm 33, i like music, art, i use windows, macs, redhat, freebsd.

i still enjoy watching the original series reruns.

all well.

that is all.

Re:But, no!

[jedidiah]

It was a bit more involved than that. Tripp was trying to turn "it" into a little Susan B. Anthony while ignoring how the other 99.99999999% of her society would react to the end result. It's painfully obvious that a great deal of frustration would be the end result of all of this.

Re:But, no!

[gmhowell]

Spoiler ahead:

I almost never watch Enterprise. Not because I don't enjoy it, I just don't watch it. But I caught 'Cogenitor' last night, and was pleased with the end of the episode. On TNG or any of the other series (even DS9), the Cogenitor would have managed to begin a cultural revolution. The suicide was a nice moment. Sure, it makes the series very episodic, but they didn't exactly take the easy way out. Just the other day (again, on accident) I caught the Voyager episode where the Doctor was trying to fight to be termed 'sentient'. The very end of the episode showed the EMH Mk I's exchanging copies of his original draft holo-novel. I expected an ending like this.

Re:But, no!

[Dave_B93]

I disagree. Trip taught her more than to read. He taught her to rise above her station in ways she wouldn't have conceived of before. There was more to it than just reading.

I agreee that the Cogenitor killing itself was a little bit overboard. but I did see it as a possibility

Personally, I thought that the captain of the alien ship was going to explain something about a great war in the past where they had to suppress to cogenitors, or how a cogenitor voicing feelings just caused too much of a hassle in the mating process ( I mean it's hard enough getting two people to like each other and stay together, how about 3?) and then maybe saying "it's ruined, now it will have to be terminated".

They have to come up with the prime directive somehow. So they have to make some mistakes every now and then. They haven't really drawn the line that Archer has with supporting an alien species before. I was wondering where he was going to have a line.

Now this Borg episode coming up... that might make me stop watching...

Re:But, no!

[Libertarian001]

So we learn, pretty early on, that the Cogenitor is necessary for procreation and makes up 3% of the population. Sounds to me like a much more likely scenario would be that the Cogenitors would at least be reverred, and more likely occupy a very high place in their society and/or government. I mean, really, what parent is ever going to willingly give up their child because it's a Cogenitor.

But given the direction they chose to go, I thought it was pretty freakin' obvious that suicide was going to be the result. Then again, I seem to have a knack for pointing out endings. Maybe if these hacks/authors tried writing something new instead of the same tried and tired tripe, I might actually be surprised.

Re:But, no!

[11223]

Really? You liked "The Breach"? I found it to be a poorly-concieved and poorly-executed mishmash of really poorly-acted rock climbing scenes (Oh No! We're Trying To Evacuate These People! The Ground Must Start Shaking!) combined with a poor rehash of a really good TNG episode (the one where the Romulan refuses to be treated with Worf's blood).

Hey, at least the TNG envy was toned down ever so slightly from a few weeks ago, where we had the characters cracking wise about needing a psychiatrist on a starship if they ever had families on-board. Or the one where we had the "Reed Alert".

Re:But, no!

[Lazlo Nibble]

I've been loving the show this season. Great characters, a focus on the kind of culture clash stories that TOS specialized in..

I've found that many of this season's episodes are more enjoyable if I watch them while pretending that they're TOS episodes (Kirk instead of Archer, etc.) Seems to me they're going to great lengths to write T'Pol as Spock this year so why not go all the way?

Re:But, no!

[dnahelix]

I'm sorry, but 'Cogen' and 'Breach' were both very boring and very predictable and very NOT new... Honestly, I've tried to watch every episode of Boobyprise but my enjoyment level has remained at about 20%. It's like Space-Teletubbies.

Re:But, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought Cogenitor was a very good episode. Yeah, they didn't go into as much association with the characters and the new aliens as I would have liked but the overall tone was good.

What I thought was really nice about the episode was that it moved us one step closer to the reasons behind the implementation of the Prime Directive. This show clearly demonstrated why non-interference is the best policy.

Re:But, no!

[SarekOfVulcan]

All Trip did was teach a person how to read--she killed herself.

I missed most of this episode: could someone else tell me if it's as much of a ripoff of Resnick's "For I Have Touched The Sky" (no, not the Trek episode) as this makes it sound?

Re:But, no!

[mink]

To me it seemed the Cogenitors would rule the society if they were not kept dumb and subserviant.

It's dead, Jim.

[whig]

says it all

Re:It's dead, Jim.

[stefanlasiewski]

More like:

"It's dead Jim, let's kick it around some more."

"It's dead Jim. But this is StarTrek, so we can solve the problem by 'modulating the frequency'."

Re:It's dead, Jim.

[CleverNickName]

More like:

"It's dead Jim, let's kick it around some more."

"It's dead Jim. But this is StarTrek, so we can solve the problem by 'modulating the frequency'."

More like, why don't YOU modulate the frequency, NERD?
(only funny if you are a regular reader of the Strongbad Emails, particularly this one.)

For everyone else:

Speaking from experience, I can tell you that the best way to fix any problem is to modify the sensor array to emit an inverse tachyon pulse into the heart of the anomaly.

Or go ask Data, but ask him while he's in the Holodeck playing Sherlock Holmes.

Re:It's dead, Jim.

[DarkHelmet]

Speaking from experience, I can tell you that the best way to fix any problem is to modify the sensor array to emit an inverse tachyon pulse into the heart of the anomaly.

I honestly think that episode of Mr. Data's way of committing suicide, and taking out of the universe with him.

Seven years without getting laid. It was his way of getting back at a universe that wouldn't sleep with him.

Somebody should have made Data a female somewhere in Season 7. I don't mean pretty makeup and boobs style... I mean Fistful of Data's-woman-at-the-end style.

That, or they somehow mix it up with the Dukes of Hazard... Imagine the voice of Waylon Jennings going: "Hooo weeeeee! 'Dem Federation Boys just blasted out of there like shotguns at a Wal-Mart sale!"

Any show that is enough of a car wreck, people will watch. It's sad, it's pathetic, and most of all, it's true.

Re:It's dead, Jim.

[Jerrry]

In SOVIET RUSSIA, the frequency modulates YOU!

Fire Berman!

[Billly Gates]

He is a terrible writer and the same guy who wrote the lame voyager series. Bring back some of the old ST:TNG writers. Pay them for what they are worth.

New aliens and a few hairdo's wont change the story or character dynamics which reack.

Re:Fire Berman!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think even Ira Stephen Burr (former DS9 writer) or David Kemper (former TNG writer and also producer and writer of Farscape) could save Enterprise. The concept is flawed. Klingons with forehead ridges, ships more advanced than those in TOS, it just doesn't work.

Re:Fire Berman!

[eddy the lip]

God, yeah....Berman's idea of a different culture is one with an opressed third gender? Woah! That's innovation! And there's a male and female of the species and they're married? Unbelievable....

I've thought (and still do) that Enterprise had the most potential since TNG, which I rather enjoyed most times. The biggest mistakes have been a) trying to hard to shoehorn foreshadowing of every bloody event in the future into the show, b) slavishly obeying the "resolve in one episode" law (I'm very surprised that Berman's talking about going with a longer story arc - he's said in more than one interview that that was a bad and stupid idea), c) worrying way too much about consistency with the rest of the ST universe.

Theoretically, they were trying to branch out a bit, bring in some new audience to the show. And frankly, the whole ST universe needs a good shaking up. It really wouldn't have hurt them a lot to pay lip service to continuity, but ignore it when it made the story better.

Oh, yeah, and fire Berman. Get someone in there who can write a story without resorting to travel to other timelines.

Re:Fire Berman!

[Dr. Spork]

Oh man, I've actually watched every episode of Voyager, sometimes being forced to scream at the lameness, but I tell you, this Enterprise gets me so nostalgic for Voyager that I almost want to vomit.

If anything, Berman & co have managed to destroy the little ambiguity between right/wrong which they had in Voyager--and they had very little of it there.

This show has its roots in the 60's anti-hippy movement and thanks to incompetent writers, it's stuck there. But I don't blame Berman personally. He did some "Borg perspectives sorta make sense sometimes" Voyager episodes that I will admire, because they don't fit the straight, moralistic mode that ST has inherited from a guy who did't get laid enough in the 60s (Rodenberry).

Re:Fire Berman!

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

Berman's idea of a different culture is one with an opressed third gender?

...and the whole third gender thing was done better on an old episode of the Alien Nation spinoff TV series, IMHO.

Re:Fire Berman!

[bluesky74656]

IMO, Last night's episode was really good. Although, it could be pretty bad and just look good compared to the stuff we've been given so far. I noticed, also, that this episode was written by Berman. Maybe there's hope for him yet. More influencial, I think, was that it was directed by Levar Burton. I agree this series has potential, let's hope this new approach can tap into it.

Re:Fire Berman!

[Anonymous Coward]

dude, just like the other guy who responded to you.

enterprise makes me want voyager back.

Re:Fire Berman!

[Chasuk]

I liked the original series, but hated Next Gen. I liked Deep Space 9, loved Voyager, and hate Enterprise.

Really, the whole franchise is tired, and I won't bother to go see another of the Trek motion pictures until the crew of the Next Gen is truly killed off or forgotten, and they finally release a film set during the clone wars, or something that isn't a retread.

Used to love it, but now it makes me yawn.

Re:Fire Berman!

[Jeff DeMaagd]

On watching the first couple seasons of DS9, it seems that at least it got a much better start than TNG did. IMO, TNG didn't start getting good until three to four years in. How they dropped the ball in the transition to Voyager though, is something we may never know.

I never understood why they had to have two series running simulteneously though, other than to maybe head off Babylon 5 with DS9, but they didn't need to do it again with Voyager.

Re:Fire Berman!

[Carnivorous Carrot]

Ok, here's a series for you:

Hoshi, Seven, Dax 1, Dax 2, Kira, and Dr. Crusher go off on a ship all by themselves, and hit only the pleasure planets, trying to find out why only females continue to exist and where the men all went, not that anyone really cares...

Re:Fire Berman!

[Watts Martin]

Berman's idea of a different culture is one with an opressed third gender? Woah! That's innovation! And there's a male and female of the species and they're married? Unbelievable....

Actually, the episode from yesterday to which you refer did something virtually unheard of in modern "Trek." The humans interfered with good intentions in the oh-very-PC way that they often do and it ended in tragedy. Not even an "in darkness there is hope" final scene. They followed it to the logical, unpleasant conclusion instead of pulling a happy ending out of their ass.

Your sarcasm is cute, but it breezes past the fact that freeing the cogenitor from the perceived oppression would have been the point in most Trek episodes, and this one took a markedly different route. While I don't think depressing episodes are in and of themselves signs of quality, if more "Enterprise" episodes had the courage to be that honest, there'd be a lot less to bitch about.

Re:Fire Berman!

[operagost]

Well, he had at least two girlfriends in the 60's- Nichelle Nichols and his future wife Majel.

Re:Fire Berman!

[j3110]

Well... that's not what bothered me about the episode. That episode seemed to make light of oppression. I can't remember a Trek episode ever before this one where the captain would have disagreed with helping the opressed of a post-warp culture.

Is Burman trying to say it's ok to treat people as inferior?

I turned to my friend at the end of that episode when we both looked at each other in horror that Trek could have been so far off the original Rodenberry idea (remember the half-black half-white people episode?), and I said Burman must have wrote this one, because he is the only person that seems to screw up Trek to that degree.

After poking around on the Internet, sure enough, this one was Burman's handy work. I don't care if it ends in tragedy, as long as they don't act like it's ok for civilized people to opress any part of their population.

From the looking at the fact that the final episode will be another Burman episode, I'm prepared to jump ship on Enterprise. Burman is killing Trek, I wish Rodenbury was still around :( ... he would jab a sharp stick through Burman's eye for such a pervertion of his ideas.

I hope they don't use Borgs!

[antdude]

Next week's episode (5/7/2003) will be a Borg episode.

Synopsis:
An arctic research team on Earth discovers debris from an alien vessel, nearly a century old, buried in a glacier along with the bodies of two cybernetically enhanced humanoids. Once those beings are thawed for investigation, they come to life and abduct the scientists and their transport vessel. Enterprise is called to intercept, but Captain Archer and his crew find these cyborgs to be an intractable, insidious enemy.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Keeper]

Yup. The Borg show up in the series way before they were ever in that sector of the galaxy in the first place.

But we all know that Berman doesn't give a crap about continuity with other series in the genre.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Wyatt Earp]

"But we all know that Berman doesn't give a crap about continuity with other series in the genre."

And that is the only thing that makes it watchable for me.

To be honest I don't care if something that was written in the mid 60s when the show was UN in space with the Soviet-Klingons and Chinese-Romulans is honored by Enterprise.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Ponty]

I trust it'll have something to do with First Contact. Wreckage from that sphere or some such. If not, well hell.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, 'cause we all know that The Next Generation was done in the 60's.

Wait... what?

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Dausha]

Come on! You know Bergman uses "Star Trek" plot dice. These are two eight-sided dice that establish what plot and which races are involved in a given episode. He then reaches for the shelf and finds an old script for 'research.'

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[dupper]

I woke my family screaming "NO!!!" upon reading the synopsis for the upcoming Enterprise episode "Regeneration. What the hell is wrong with B&B (Brannon Braga and Rick Berman), or whoever is responsible for this. I wasn't expecting the show to stoop to this level of gimmickery for at least several seasons (even worse with the T'Pol pon-farr-ish episode supposedly coming up), and, even then, I thought they would at least try to maintain some degree of continuity (the 200 year thing (to try to cover the first Borg attacks on Federation outposts along the Romulan neutral zone in TNG) is complete BS, especially considering that subspace transmissions travel faster than the fastest starships, and Voyager would have only taken 70 years from the Delta Quadrant; most importantly, the Federation will know about the Borg, and that'll just completely fuck up everything). Yes, it is interesting in establishing continuity with First Contact (while destorying continuity with the rest of the series), but that isn't why the creators did it. Don't be a damned apologist for the shows obvious deficits. I know and understand the pain a Trek geek feels with each easily-avoidable continuity break, like this, and I used to, like others still do, make up ridiculously implausible and just plain desperate explainations for this incompetence/apathy on the part of the creators, but I'd rather cut off the cancerous testicle than let the cancer spread. Either give the show some decent writers and general creative control (ie, kill B&B in some horrible, painfull way), or cancel the fucking series while it still has some damn dignity left. On the other hand, last night's episode "Cogenitor" was the first episode of Enterprise I've ever seen which actually had a reasonably original story (trigendered species and a crewmember's fuck-up with cultural interference, clearly meant to establish the principles behind the future prime directive) and which didn't do a hollyood-liberal hippocritical pussy/cop/whore-out, and have the end be all preachy, with a thousand years of injustices and hatred completely reversed with a single visit and impassioned speach by the captain (are you listening, Voyager?). Kudos on that, but the episode was still dull as an old dog's balls.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Keeper]

If you want to create a star trek series that takes place at an earlier point in time than other trek series, and you want to throw out anything established in those series, don't call it star trek.

Stupid little things I can forgive. A turning point in "history" I cannot. It'd be like blowing up the death star in star wars episode 3. It doesn't make any sense. It's dumb. And shows complete and utter lack of imagination from an author resorting to a formula designed to generate ratings by appealing to stupid people.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Hell, even as relatively good as it was, Cogenitor sucked ass. Through a straw.

200 naturally ocurring elements? What, is that supposed to sound exotic? To those for whom it would sound exotic, they don't even know what an element is! C'mon, I know there are some physicist geeks in here that could explain it better than I, but doesn't the geometry of a nucleus with that many protons doom anything approx. larger than 130ish? And even those last few only exist for a few nanoseconds. This is the sort of shit that pisses me off.

We should give it it's own genre, pseudoscience fiction.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[zakharin]

According to B&B themselves this "pick up where first contact left off"

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[gmhowell]

If you want to create a star trek series that takes place at an earlier point in time than other trek series, and you want to throw out anything established in those series, don't call it star trek.

That's funny, I didn't think it was called Star Trek.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Keeper]

Sorry, the presence of "Vulcans", "Klingons", and a ship called "Enterprise" must have confused me ... it's a trek series. The fact that it doesn't have "Star Trek: Enterprise" as a title doesn't change that.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad Gene Isn't still alive. He actually put thought into his shows, as he knew what audience to cater to (the tech-heads).

In describing the "teleporter" one episode, he says it's possible through a Heisenberg Compensator. He covers theoritical physics in mass teleportation (hence why it cant be done now).

Also, what about going from Impuse 1/4 to warp 4... Why dont they get vaporised into a cream by slamming into a wall? Inertial Dampeners.

Sad, the original Trek's had few (if 1) plot holes. And the guy only had a few bucks to spend. EG: The ship was floating inside a pierced garbage can covered by camera lights. He HAD to make in sound realistic without super-FX.

No wonder why I quit watching Star Trek after TNG.

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[breon.halling]

...These are two eight-sided dice...

I'm guessing that on at least six sides are the words "Space-Time Continuum," right? ;)

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[WWWWolf]

These are two eight-sided dice that establish what plot and which races are involved in a given episode.

So one day he rolls 2, consults the table, and says, "Hmm, this week it will be... Gygaxoids??? This 3rd ed Revised is weird."

Re:I hope they don't use Borgs!

[Jim Hall]

Synopsis:
An arctic research team on Earth discovers debris from an alien vessel, nearly a century old, buried in a glacier along with the bodies of two cybernetically enhanced humanoids. Once those beings are thawed for investigation, they come to life and abduct the scientists and their transport vessel. Enterprise is called to intercept, but Captain Archer and his crew find these cyborgs to be an intractable, insidious enemy.

Ah, I think I've seen this episode before on Dr Who: Ice Warriors.

Synopsis:
An arctic science team on Earth discovers an alien vessel, centuries old, buried in a glacier along with the bodies of two humanoid Martians. Once those beings are thawed for investigation, they come to life and abduct one of the scientists and attempt liftoff in their damaged Martian vessel. The Doctor is called upon to help, and there is a minor explosion which destroys the insidious enemy.

Alien aliens

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be nice if they'd use cgi to create some real alien aliens rather than just creating a different shaped latex mask for a human.

Re:Alien aliens

[NanoGator]

"It would be nice if they'd use cgi to create some real alien aliens rather than just creating a different shaped latex mask for a human. "

The problem with doing that is that Star Trek tries to maintain a style that doesn't degrade much over the years. For example, there's very little in STNG (post season 3) that makes people wince today like Dr. Who does. That's one of the reasons that they stick with the 'bumpy head' approach. Okay, it's not so 'alienesque' but it does stand the test of time longer than other approaches, plus the actors can act with them.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'd be on the side of surprise if they did do that. Still though, I'd prefer it to muppets.

Re:Alien aliens

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't this kind of like saying that iD shouldn't push the boundaries of computer graphics with Doom 3 because it 20 years time it will look really dated?

How many people are going to be playing it, or in the case of Star Trek/Dr Who, how many will be watching them 20 years after release anyway?

I'm not talking about muppets either. That's old tech. I'm talking cgi.

Re:Alien aliens

[NanoGator]

"Isn't this kind of like saying that iD shouldn't push the boundaries of computer graphics with Doom 3 because it 20 years time it will look really dated?"

No, it's not. We're talking about TV shows that will live in reruns for the forseeable future, not a flash-in-the-pan game that'll be played for maybe a year or two before it's forgotten.

"How many people are going to be playing it, or in the case of Star Trek/Dr Who, how many will be watching them 20 years after release anyway?"

Dr. Who is still being watched today, and it started in the late 60's. 2007 will be STNG's 20th's anniversary, and it'll more than likely still be on the air in reruns and people will likely still be buying DVD's for it.

That's why Trek invests so much money into intricate sets and lighting etc. You should read "The Art of Star Trek" if you'd like more insight into what goes in to making a series intended to last a while.

Re:Alien aliens

[jo_ham]

Babylon 5 did a lot in this area without being too extravagant. They managed to produce some much more interesting aliens than the Trek universe though.

You had your regular "bumpy heads": Mimbari, Brakiri, Centauri (just a lot of hairspray and an 80s handbook there).

You also had your more adventurous aliens that were still easy to do: the Narns must have been one of the most difficult to do with latex and foam. That insect species with the breathing mask and humanoid body comes to mind. Obviously the Vorlons here - although you really only ever see the big floating encounter suit. Actual Vorlons were CG, or were appearing in human form so were played by real actors.
The pak'ma'ra were also pretty interesting to look at.

Re:Alien aliens

[Scumbag Tracker]

Watch "The Crossing". Were those aliens humanoid? :p

Re:Alien aliens

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the Shadows (shiiiiver!), and that nasty/interesting brain sucker octopus thing.

Re:Alien aliens

[Cowboy]

It would be nice if they'd use cgi to create some real alien aliens rather than just creating a different shaped latex mask for a human.

Better still, they should use some real aliens. That would put those SETI fakers in their place.

Re:Alien aliens

[tenman]

I think they could get some great ideas for completely off-the wall characters by attending just one Star Trek convention.

Re:Alien aliens

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't they half-explain that in TNG by saying that all species came from this master-species? There was an episode where the humans and klingons and romulans and cardassians all have part of this puzzle and they think it is to build a weapon but it comes out as a message that all the species are actually subspecies? That'd also explain why/how those half-klingons and etc can be running around.

Wow

[neurostar]

I've felt like the show has been slipping all season...

Woah! It's still on air?

For some reason I thought they'd canceled it :\

Oh well, it's not the first time a slashdotter has been mis-informed...

Sex it up!

[ChuckleBug]

Don't get me wrong - I like hot babes in form-fitting clothes and all, but after Seven of Nine and T'Pol, how about a hot babe with all the nice bits PLUS an actual PERSONALITY? Sure, the physical goods are there, but their behavior isn't exactly sexy.

"Captain, it is 1300 hours. Time for our afternoon copulation."

Then again, since ratings are down, try a proven formula: Have Archer shave his head, grow a beard, and bring in Worf!

Re:Sex it up!

[Brandon Sharitt]

Then again, since ratings are down, try a proven formula: Have Archer shave his head, grow a beard, and bring in Worf!

That is about when I started to find DS9 interesting, it might just work.

Re:Sex it up!

[nurightshu]

The disturbing juxtaposition of the subject line and your last suggestion made me think of this.

Re:Sex it up!

[outsider007]

they haven'y used that 7-year boner thing that vulcans get, there's an episode I'd be willing to watch.

Re:Sex it up!

[pipingguy]

I've always thoght those gay fan fiction stories were auto generated by Slashbots.

Re:Sex it up!

[vrmlguy]

Just wait a couple of weeks.

Re:Sex it up!

[Tablizer]

Don't get me wrong - I like hot babes in form-fitting clothes and all, but after Seven of Nine and T'Pol, how about a hot babe with all the nice bits PLUS an actual PERSONALITY?

Hoshi is cute IMO, especially when she lets her hair down. BTW, where can one buy or rent episodes such as the one where Hoshi is afraid of the transporter. I missed that episode. Was it any good?

Re:Sex it up!

[Lars T.]

But Bakula won't look like Hawk all of a sudden. So what to do, have him say "Oh Boy" a lot and make Dean Stockwell his invisible pal? Have him ride a bike with Bruce Willis, get slaughtered, and make Willis Captain? OTOH, do we want to see Bruce's Willy on board?

Re:Sex it up!

[SamBeckett]

Oh Boy!

Re:Sex it up!

[wideBlueSkies]

>>Don't get me wrong - I like hot babes in form-fitting clothes and all, but after Seven of Nine and T'Pol, how about a hot babe with all the nice bits PLUS an actual PERSONALITY?

Troi?

Sure, she's a little on the thick side, but she IS really good looking, smart, sensitive. And my god, look at that rack!!

Re:Sex it up!

[calethix]

"Then again, since ratings are down, try a proven formula: Have Archer shave his head, grow a beard, and bring in Worf!"

so that's what they should have done to fix Voyager... hrm.. a bald scruffy Janeway. ;)

Re:Sex it up!

[glindsey]

...how about a hot babe with all the nice bits PLUS an actual PERSONALITY?

You mean like Hoshi Sato? Of course, there's really no point to having her on the ship anymore, now that they've ditched the whole "we actually need translators because (gasp) everyone doesn't speak English" idea.

It's a shame, though. Phlox and Hoshi are the only two characters that tend to hold my interest on that show...

Re:Sex it up!

[SubtleNuance]

More disturbing, in fact, is your knowledge of that at all...

Haha

[boomgopher]

"Furthermore, the dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside)"

Wow, what a great plot vehicle...

This sounds like it was written by some junior high school student...

Re:Haha

[anotherone]

Reminds me of something I saw on Invader Zim once...

Re:Haha

[arcite]

"likened to the Bermuda Triangle..."

Wouldn't that be the Bermuda Pyramid?
You know.. space 3 dimentions? Pyramid? get it?? getit?..... ahhhh forget it.

Re:Haha

[cybermace5]

That was the exact plot (well, except for the space part) of a radio skit from the 1940's.

Re:Haha

[Anonymous Coward]

Atleast it isn't likened to an astronomical swing set.

Here come the Borg!

[diverman]

Yeah... the default backup plan when ratings go south... Bring on the Borg! Oh wait! That's what the preview for next week indicated!

I certainly hope they are doing more than that to improve the show! Just bringing in the Borg kind of breaks the idea that Earth didn't have any major confrontation until STTNG. If an earlier Enterprise happened to encounter the Borg, I would think that some records would have existed for Pickard to to be more prepared. :)

-Alex

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Alsee]

If an earlier Enterprise happened to encounter the Borg, I would think that some records would have existed for Pickard to to be more prepared. :)

You expect continutity? Ha. That's what the Teporal Cold War is for, so they can justify wiping out the entire Trek history. Every episode of every Trek series you ever saw never happened. It was a figment of your imagination.

I also find the Temporal Cold War to be a stupid plot device because it makes the characters and events on the show insignifigant and meaningless playthings. It's like having a TV show about the ball in [insert favorite competitive sport here] with all the players off-screen. When you watch a sport you watch and care about the players, not the ball. From the point of view of the warring factions the enterprise crew is entirely historical, they can't really DO anything.

-

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Paladine97]

Yo, it's Picard

Jean Luc Picard!

BTW did anybody catch the A&E Biography on Patrick Stewart? I found it to be quite interesting. He's a great actor.

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Dylan Zimmerman]

The series finale for Enterprise is going to involve them going through time fixing all sorts of things. The Suliban will be prevented from existing, the first encounter with the Borg will be removed from history, etc.

I can almost guarantee that that is what they are going to pull. They've been hinting at it since the first episode, what with the whole "temporal cold war" that was never refered to in any other show and all.

Re:Here come the Borg!

[11223]

No, no, no! Don't you remember from the Season 5 cliffhanger, "Time's Arrow"?

Mr. Pickard!!!!

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Dr. Spork]

Yeah, I've never seen more conceptual confusion about time travel than in Star Trek episodes. I bet you're right, and I will yell at my TV when I see it happen. If that's how it goes, I swear to boycot every product advertised during the show, no matter what it is (even if it's milk or something else that I always buy).

I'm sad to be at the age when I have to watch great shows die a terrible death. On Sundays it's the Simpsons and Wednesdays it's Star Trek. Nothing makes me more ashamed to be a trekkie than this Enterprise crap.

Bring back Firefly!

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Suidae]

You know why I'm a big SG-1 fan?

Its Sci-Fi that doesn't take itself too seriously, but isn't so slapstic (ie, Lexx) that I'm embarrased to watch it.

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Anonymous Coward]

You expect continutity? Ha. That's what the Teporal Cold War is for, so they can justify wiping out the entire Trek history. Every episode of every Trek series you ever saw never happened. It was a figment of your imagination.

Actually, yes, it was.

Dude, it's a TV SHOW.

Re:Here come the Borg!

[NFNNMIDATA]

An earlier Enterprise did encounter the borg, so to speak, when Enterprise-E encountered them in First Contact. I don't recall anyone getting their memories erased, so I'm guessing Cochrane and Lily would have retained that knowledge - maybe they decided to keep it to themselves to preserve the timeline...?

Re:Here come the Borg!

[haa...jesus christ]

so i guess we should expect dean stockwell to show up, huh?

Re:Here come the Borg!

[Paladine97]

I havn't seen it. I only own seasons 1-4 on DVD ;-) Alas, the season 5 will soon be mine!

Re:Here come the Borg!

[mink]

He did.

New aliens?

[Anonymous Coward]

major changes in the struggling Star Trek series for next year including new aliens

Oh, for pete's sake! Like there will be aliens they meet and then have forgotten about by the time TOS rolls around...

Re:New aliens?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you get it by now? Thanks to all the time-travel mumbo-jumbo, we're not looking at the same universe as TNG any more. It's a parallel universe, completely different from the one the other shows and movies took place in. That's why the Klingons aren't blowing the shit out of the Federation yet, and why they have technology that's more advanced than it has any right to be, and why *cough*borg*cough* and so on.

It's stupid and lame, but at least it's fair. They're playing by their own rules.

Slipping all season?

[Mashiki]

It's been slipping the last two seasons.

Same show, rehatched ideas, visionless direction; lather rinse repeat. Bah...it's turned into a "PC our morality is always right" and your is always wrong show. Last nights episode was a good example.

What happened to entertainment, if I wanted to be taught morality, I would goto my local public school.

Re:Slipping all season?

[11223]

Really? Have we been watching the same show? I thought it was a "our morality is always wrong" show. Sort of like TNG and Voyager, for that matter.

Re:Slipping all season?

[NanoGator]

"Bah...it's turned into a "PC our morality is always right" and your is always wrong show. Last nights episode was a good example."

Err did you watch to the end of that episode? "Morality" caused somebody to commit suicide. Not only did this episode illustrate why the Prime Directive is more important than human morality, but it also showed (again) that the Enterprise really fucked up. It's startlingly different from STNG or Voyager where everything ends better for the good guys.

What I particularly liked about the end of this episode was the chewing Trip got over the whole situation he caused. It was evident that some serious damage was caused between Archer and his First Officer. If this carries over into future episodes, we could have a heck of a story arc.

I agree that Enterprise has been a little stale in recent episodes, but last night was a surprisingly good one. The catch is that you have to really pay attention to what's said in the end to enjoy it. Turn it off early and the whole ep is wasted.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Mashiki]

Nope I didn't. Why? Found the show to be too boring. I think I made the first 35 minutes or so, then I popped in avoiding armageddon since I really hadn't watched that yet.

Ofcourse, if I had been really bored...I might have gone outside...but I had been on the road all day.

I suppose when the repeats start I'll have to pay attention, but here is the kicker. You get stuck in a loop, if one show sucks you think the same thing for the next episode. And you judge it as such, 3 or 4 episodes in a row...and you don't hold faith when you get a slow moving chunk of crud comes your way.

Re:Slipping all season?

[sco08y]

Actually, I thought Trek (I mostly watched TNG) was pretty even handed. That's pretty impressive, as I doubt Patrick Stewart is the only leftist on the cast. (And, yes, he's one of my favorite actors in spite of his politics. As far as I'm concerned, actors can say whatever they like, though I find drooling offensive.)

They didn't usually go into a lot of detail on certain issues (or maybe they did in books or shows I never saw) such as the world government or the Prime Directive. Part of this is because such things are, like Asimov's Laws of Robotics, axiomatic in sci-fi. So by glossing over these details, they avoided arguments they could have screwed up badly.

Another thing that kept Trek balanced was fan influence... warlike Klingons were always much more popular because they appeal to our Jacksonian side, and the Ferenghi were never very popular because they were such a hamfisted caricature that only rabid lefties would find them funny.

I think you have to take what you can get from television, and since it tends to reflect your culture, you're probably not going to be happy with it if you're not happy with who you are.

Re:Slipping all season?

[NanoGator]

"I suppose when the repeats start I'll have to pay attention, but here is the kicker. You get stuck in a loop, if one show sucks you think the same thing for the next episode. And you judge it as such, 3 or 4 episodes in a row...and you don't hold faith when you get a slow moving chunk of crud comes your way."

I agree with you here. The show could do a little more to be more entertaining. The last few eps weren't very memorable.

I think if you caught the last 15 minutes of the repeat you'd find it more satisfying, but I warn you that it's more babble. No real action.

It's a bummer because the season started off really well. Give Enterprise a little credit, though, at least not every episode is about the ship being in immediate danger.

Re:Slipping all season?

[pantropik]

First Officer? What did T'Pol have to do with it?

Tripp is Chief Engineer. That's why T'Pol always gets left in command when Archer is off flying through stars and stuff (and then usually placed in a situation where it would be "logical" but not very nice to betray Archer "for his own good".)

Re:Slipping all season?

[NanoGator]

"First Officer? What did T'Pol have to do with it?"

Yeah yeah, sorry. I was distracted by my girlfriend.

Re:Slipping all season?

[GigsVT]

The catch is that you have to really pay attention to what's said in the end to enjoy it.

That sounds suspiciously like Jerry Springer.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Anenga]

I agree, that was a good episode. Even TrekNation's review is positive. So was Judgment, which got a "Warp 5" rating on Trek5, which IMO is rather good considering most of their reviews were fair and harsh (but they were right about nearly all of them). And last weeks episode, The Breach was also very good. (Got 4/5 @ TrekNation). So people who say this series is a failure, well... perhaps you should start watching again, because it seems to be getting really good lately.

Regarding the last episode, it was good. However, I hope they don't stop at a little "suicide" to create the Prime Directive, and instead something major... like the accidental distruction of a planet (Give one race WMD and they whipe out another or something).

Re:Slipping all season?

[nelsonal]

I guess I am really a kooky right winger, because I always liked them. I have very little problem with actors having quite different politics or moral code from me, but I get a little tired of the plot preaching that code or behavior to me. That has always been the biggest turnoff of Star Trek has for me. It seemed to get worse as the shows went on, or perhaps, the issues the earlier shows raised were issues that are now pretty much decided (like racial or gender equality).

Re:Slipping all season?

[11223]

Oh, yeah, like the absolutely horrible 7th season TNG episode where Picard would rather let an entire species die than break the prime directive? Where he insists Worf be dressed up to look like a local rather than contaminate a populace that will be dead in a week? Where the only person with enough balls to save the people involved is branded as a reckless and morally suspect individual?

Yeah, that's what the Prime Directive gets us. Thank god that DS9 was on by that time. I like to watch something with a dose of moral sanity every once in a while.

Re:Slipping all season?

[sco08y]

I think Jonah Goldberg, from Nat'l Review, has written a couple of positive columns about Trek.

Then again, he's pretty damned kooky too.

I can tolerate preaching... it's when they have a Vulcan makes some vacuous generalization about what is or isn't logical that irritates me.

Like that one movie where they go back to rescue the whales. "Destroying a species is not logical." Well, why the fuck didn't we think of that?! If only we could have listened to a Paramount scriptwriter^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ^H^H^H^H^H a wise and hyper-logical alien being, we'd all be living in perfect harmony by now.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Anonymous Coward]

Morality is overrated and there is no such thing as absolute morality short of God coming down again and handing out commandments on the Fox News Network. Who is to say human morality is superior or even the correct one to whatever moral system an alien species might develop? Its ego and typical human superiority to assume what we do must be right and everyone else is wrong. When we encounter the first alien species, I am sure we will be shocked because their social system will be vastly different to whatever we have and no doubt their morality will be too.

Re:Slipping all season?

[droberge]

I must admit I stopped taking the review at TrekNation seriously when the guy said what a great episode "The Outcast" was...

Re:Slipping all season?

[jmorris42]

Amen to that! Picard committed a crime there. Pinheaded adherence to a rulebook's letter instead of the spirit is what caused his failure. But what possible justification can Cpt. Archer give for his attempt to render a sentient spacefaring species extinct in _Dear Doctor_?

Re:Slipping all season?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

,i>what possible justification can Cpt. Archer give for his attempt to render a sentient spacefaring species extinct in _Dear Doctor_?

Maybe because intervention would have doomed the other half of the species (you know, the lower caste guys) to eternal subordination?

Re:Slipping all season?

[jmorris42]

Oh yea, those enlightened, peaceful people who happened to develop civilization before those less fortunate guys just have to all die to make room for the oppressed peoples of the world. Sorry, even if they had the Prime Directive already it should not have applied in that case. You had a spacefaring civilization who had already made first contact with multiple specied. Ok, they didn't have the warp drive or anti-matter. So that puts them about 100 years behind Star Fleet. So why the hell are we trying to cure AIDS in Africa? They are at least 100 years behind the Western World and AIDS did originate there so it is there problem and it would be interference to try to assist them. No? You think that is barbaric, uncivilized and generally unfroody?

So do I, but I apply that sentiment broadly. Interferring with the development of a civilivation far beneath your own level has been shown to cause only pain, even when done for the best of intentions. But failure to lend aid (especially AFTER the doctor had a cure!) to a neighbor who is in your own league and not hostile is wicked. Hell, letting a plague wipe out an enemy is pretty morally questionable if you can lend them medical assistance without endangering your own safety; it is the sort of thing that makes friends out of former enemies.

Won't happen, being Trek and all that rot, but nothing would make me laugh harder than to see that species a) find a cure on their own, b) upon finding it realize that Archer & Co. had to know the cure also and lied to them and then c) invade Earth.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Snaller]

"Morality" caused somebody to commit suicide. Not only did this episode illustrate why the Prime Directive is more important than human morality, but it also showed (again) that the Enterprise really fucked up. It's startlingly different from STNG or Voyager where everything ends better for the good guys.



Nonsense about TNG - you should watch the series before you spout that (not the movies, they are lame action attempts)

Re:Slipping all season?

[Fulcrum of Evil]

But failure to lend aid (especially AFTER the doctor had a cure!) to a neighbor who is in your own league and not hostile is wicked.

The neighbor in question is not suffering from a disease, but severely inbred (somehow). There's not much to be done, and the 'other' species is in fact the portion of the population that is genetically healthy. The only real way to help them would be to encourage them to interbreed, but I don't see that flying too well. Helping them with external aid has many parallels with the US propping up friendly governments artificially: it only rarely changes anything, and typically only delays the inevitable.

Re:Slipping all season?

[kard]

>Err did you watch to the end of that episode? >"Morality" caused somebody to commit suicide. Not >only did this episode illustrate why the Prime >Directive is more important than human morality,

i think human morality is ALWAYS more important than prime directive.

i think Trip did the right thing.

about the fact that the cogenitor committed suicide :

if Trip haven't teached her to learn to read to play Go and whatever:
she would live all her life as a dog. never really thinking, never really existing.

but Trip teached her to read, and she (i know she's not exactly a she) begun to live an intelligent (thinking) life. She decided to end it.

You really think it's better to life long as a dog than to live short as an intelligent being?

comments/flames welcome :)

Re:Slipping all season?

[mark-t]

Trip's interference also led up to a married couple who had done nothing societally wrong being denied their opportunity to have a child.

Also of interest here is the fact that the cogenitor had not actually *asked* for help, and in fact cautioned Trip against doing this.

Yes, the cogenitor was intelligent, and yes they were being treated inhuman, but face it, if an alien race came down to us before slavery had been outlawed, and had tried to show us how backwards we were, would it have made any difference? No. The human race had to get to where we are on our own, just as the Vizeans(sp?) from the last episode will have to, someday.

That, my friend, is what the Prime Directive that ultimately ends up being created is all about.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Anonymous Coward]

The explaination was that the two species co-evolved. Imagine if both the cromagnon and neanderthal evolved into the humans and neander-human species. If they did, then it's unlikely that neander-humans and humans could interbreed, of if they did, their children would be sterile: interbreeding a donkey and a horse leads to the sterile mule.

So interbreeding wasn't the answer. A cure was. But suppose interbreeding was somehow possible and it was the cure, by not even telling them how they can get out of their mess because they favoured the other species, the Enterprise demonstrated a "father Startfleet knows best" attitude that has gotten the US into more messes than anything else.

As for the "US propping up friendly governments" statement, this is totally different. If the other species needed a cure for some disease and the Enterprise had it, they should get it too. There's no discrimination or propping up one species over the other.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, slavery in the US was "morally" okay at one point. It was okay to keep your slave ignorant because knowledge is power.

Are you saying that it's *wrong* to teach a slave to read so he/she can make his own choices? Once he/she made those choices, is it *wrong* to provide them access to "the underground railroad" so that they could go to a country, like Canada or Mexico, that didn't have slavery? Or would it be wrong to let that escaped slave to return to the US once he learned he could make a difference to start an anti-slavery movement? Without all of these happening, slavery might still be a part of US culture.

That's exactly the situation we're facing here. Nothing was forced down the throat of the cogenitor. He/She was given a choice and enough knowledge to make that choice. The Enterprise essentially said that choice is irrevant and so is human dignity.

The Vizeans made a choice when they went out into space. They recognized that when they came in contact with other species, their culture would change -- it has it. Coming in contact with "foreigners" no matter how developed their society is always changes the society. If they were unwilling to change their culture, they needed to limit themselves to their own planet or avoid all alien contact. That's the choice that Chancellor Durken made in ST:NG's "First Contact" when he realized his people were not ready to give up their provincial attitudes in order to join the Federation. He rightly recognized that social change needed to take place before technological change.

The spirit of the prime directive is about respect for people to make their own choices and the recognition that if you have advanced too far technically it's hard for a lesser developed species to not simply absorb your way of doing things so there is no choice here. The Vizeans were more advanced than the Enterprise so the second factor doesn't play a part in it. Trip only gave them knowledge so they could make their own choices. *That's* a sign of respect and that's the essence of the prime directive.

Re:Slipping all season?

[Mashiki]

I think since I've finally been able to wake up, I can say that some people would say my comment would be "lack of attention span", I would argue that I can find a book more entertaining.

Most definatly, it does have credit for not always having the ship always in danger.

Watch Out

[Anonymous Coward]

The entire crew are Mohawks and carrying machetes.
kick Ass

Star Trek Franchise

[rlp]

Voyager ranged from disappointing to bad. The few episodes of Enterprise I saw were very bad indeed. What the show needs is a few well-written scripts. What we're getting is new aliens, hair-do's etc. Doesn't sound worth watching to me.

Is it even enough?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, this shows problems are SO essential I'm not sure it's even POSSIBLE to expunge the problems without firing all teh writers wholesale.

Seriously, what retard signed off on that episode where the captain gets tried on the Klingon home world and sentenced to Rurapenthe?!?! I know plagiarism is a crime where I went to college, but ripping off a movie plot VERBATIM isn't grounds for outright dismissal?

I have some new rules for the Star Trek world going forward:

1) No ST actors may write, direct, or play a role in developing ANY future episodes, movie scripts, or storylines. We've all see the results.

2) No one who currently participates in writing on Star Trek related materials can participate in future Star Trek undertakings.

Violations of these rules will result in either permanent exile to the penal colony on Rurapenthe or five years cleaning Shatner's toupee.

-rt

Maybe partly off-topic, but

[compupc1]

Shouldn't Trek get it's own topic icon?

On a side note, I'm willing to give the "new" show a try. The last couple episodes have been pretty good, and it looks like they are making some sort of an effort to address falling ratings and concerns. Of course, if the "new direction" turns out to be a trip straight South, I would bet that Enterprise won't see a 4th season.

I just wish that in terms of production values: 1) They ditch the catsuit for T'Pol. No real Vulcan would dress like that...it's degrading. 2) They would spend a bit more time designing makeup. Bumpy foreheads don't cut it anymore and make the show look quite cheap. 3) The music needs to be a lot more thematic and bombastic. It's been slightly better lately but like the makeup, "sonic wallpaper" doesn't cut it. Give us dramatic, emotional music!

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[realdpk]

How is the catsuit "degrading"? How can clothing ever be degrading, for that matter?

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[grammar fascist]

How can clothing ever be degrading, for that matter?

You obviously don't have daughters.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[sco08y]

Or lack thereof!

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[nytes]

I just wish that in terms of production values: 1) They ditch the catsuit for T'Pol. No real Vulcan would dress like that...it's degrading.

I agree 100%. I wanna see T'Pol without the catsuit on!

(Sorry, that was just too easy to pass up :-)

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[realdpk]

I'm obviously not over-sensitive about what people wear.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Suidae]

I do. And I agree with the parent post, it is not possible for clothing to be degrading. The way other people react to it can be degrading to them.

Americans have farked up attitudes about their bodies.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, quite illogical. ;)

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[compupc1]

In terms of today's society it really isn't but in terms of Trek it is. Vulcans were always previously established to be conservative yet nearly completely a people of reason and logic. That a Vulcan wears a catsuit defies both of these Trek "norms" (no other vulcans wear stuff like that, even on 'Enterprise'), shows disrespect for what has come before.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[grammar fascist]

I do. And I agree with the parent post, it is not possible for clothing to be degrading. The way other people react to it can be degrading to them.

Americans have farked up attitudes about their bodies.

Interesting view. Tell me: how does my daughter control how other people react to what she wears?

She doesn't. She has a measure of control by choosing what it is she wears in the first place, though.

I challenge you to do everything naked for the next two weeks. Don't change your routine in the slightest. Come back and tell us all how you fared.

The point is that it has nothing to do with attitude toward the human body, and everything to do with helping other people respect you. If you dress like a whore, that's what they'll think you are. This is how clothing may or may not be degrading. If you don't like it, find another planet (or another race besides the human race) where these things aren't so.

Farking Ultra-liberals.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[DeadScreenSky]

"Americans have farked up attitudes about their bodies."

That's so true. I can't understand why my fellow Americans go along with this shitty attitudes. Who can it possibly benefit? I know the American 'culture of fear' benefits many companies (buy stuff to be safe), but I just can't see how shit like this connects to that. I need to get the hell out of this country!

And I know certain clothing was probably considered immoral in the past, pre-60's era feminism, but was it also considered 'degrading'? Or is that just a more modern euphenism for immoral? Something I need to find out about.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Albinoman]

Ive always had the attitude that it doesnt matter what you wear, people will makes judgements, bad judgements anyway.

Only someone who is narrow minded will make the judgement that someone is a whore based on looks (unless, of course, youre wearing fishnet stockings and a black leather miniskirt while standing on a corner).

Here how your daughter controls how other people react to what she wears...... SHE CANT!!! Thats right. Clothing goes no further than a first impression, and if they only see you once, thats all theyll get anyway so it doesnt matter. Your daughter could dress formally every day, but if she acts like bitch it wont matter, noone will ever respect her. On the other hand she could dress "like a whore" and be very smart and polite and people will talk to and treat her appropriately. She will get a different first impression out of people, but anyone that bothers to get to know her will find the truth.

Hitler and Hussein both wore military uniforms, would you respect them? How about Colin Powell or Norman Schwarzkopf? See? Its the actions that matter.

Farking Narrow-Minded Conservatives

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Snaller]

I just wish that in terms of production values: 1) They ditch the catsuit for T'Pol. No real Vulcan would dress like that...it's degrading.

Actually that's your repressed sexuality that dictates that. I don't think its degrading, I think its unncessary fluff designed to bring in an age group which haven't got much money and is pretty worthless to the advertizers(but that seems to be the way american tv works) - but a Vulcan wouldn't recognize the 'degrading bit. They would be indifferent to what others though, and presumably choose to wear something they thought was comfortable. Of course according to actors those jumpsuits are not comfortable. So yes, ditch the jumpsuit, but not because its degrading - it isn't particuarly and american tv is about beautiful people first and foremost. Love it or leave it.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Baron_Yam]

Isn't it odd that most Vulans like wearing flowing, light hanging robes with lots of symbols sewn in... but T'Pol wears a bodysuit?

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Anonymous Coward]

"Degrading" is simply a modern euphemism for "I don't think anyone should be alowed to do/wear/say/think that!"

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[pod]

Further supporting the theory that t'pol is some kind of outcast, and so got assigned to babysit the humans?

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Snaller]

Hey! She's a Romulan!

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Cerberus7]

It's both. If the daughter in question dresses like a whore, some people won't even consider who she is, how she behaves, or what she has to say. If she dresses formally, but is a bitch, certain circles will accept her simply for her image.

Farking Narrow-Minded...uh...left-and-right-wingers ;)

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Albinoman]

You absolutely right on that too. When I reas my reply again later I noticed that I left the other side out. Ive certainly met those people that will make judgments and associations based on appearance, but theyve seemed to have dwindled pretty bad after high school.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Suidae]

Tell me: how does my daughter control how other people react to what she wears?

She doesn't. She has a measure of control by choosing what it is she wears in the first place, though.

I don't disagree. My point is that it is silly for people to make judgments based on how much and what skin one chooses to expose. I'm not disputing what is, I'm making a statment about the absurdity of the way it is.

In the US, its pretty much acceptable (to varying degrees) to a woman to expose her entire body, excepting areola or labia. Even a standard bikini type bathing suit is little more than token coverage.

The point is that it has nothing to do with attitude toward the human body, and everything to do with helping other people respect you.

What, I have to be capable of putting on a shirt and pants to get your respect? What kind of measure is that?

I couldn't care less what most people think of me, and the ones that I do care about are not so shallow as to believe that clothing has even the slightest impact on my personality.

Now, I'm not suggesting that meeting new clients in a ratty t-shirt that says 'Fark You' on the front is a good idea, but if I want to be naked at the beach, I don't see why that should be considered 'indecent'. If we can cite a beautiful woman for indecent exposure for not covering her breasts, we sure as hell ought to cite morbidly obese guys for wearing speedos.

Re:Maybe partly off-topic, but

[Mason]

2) They would spend a bit more time designing makeup. Bumpy foreheads don't cut it anymore and make the show look quite cheap

Hey, they've done a great job with the Andorians. I'd actually like to see quite a bit more of the Andorians as Enterprise progresses. They are the great unexplored race in the Star Trek universe.

My two cents: I think Enterprise rocks. I am completely happy with it, and there won't be an episode that I'll miss. It is *SO MUCH BETTER* than Voyager! Frankly, I like it about as much as I like TOS, which ranks *very* slightly higher than even TNG in my book.

So far, the only episode of Enterprise that I consider atrociously bad was the recent one that ripped off the courtroom scene from Undiscovered Country. The most recent episode, Cogenitor, was riveting!

I'm confuzzled

[TheNumberSix]

So earth is in danger and there's one spaceship that has a desperate quest to save the earth before the eeeevil alien plot destroys earth once and for all!

It's Starblazers! Err, no wait, it's Crusade! Wait.. it's Enterprise!

Can we please stop getting old stuff recycled and at least try for something a little less imitative of previous scifi shows?

Re:I'm confuzzled

[Tackhead]

> Can we please stop getting old stuff recycled and at least try for something a little less imitative of previous scifi shows?

Hmph. I'd love to see someone do something derivative. Something familiar. Something I can nod my head and say "Yeah, I've seen that before." Something totally derivative. Something that's exactly like a couple of previous sci-fi shows. I nominate "B5" and "Firefly".

Re:I'm confuzzled

[TheNumberSix]

Point taken. I agree with you that those are ideal candidates for imitation.

However I would suspect that B&B do not have the creativity to make it work.

Assume for a second that they out those two fools were put in charge of Firefly. It's not possible, but let's assume it for a second. I would speculate that there would not be words in English to describe the kind of suckfest it would turn out to be. *shrug*

Re:I'm confuzzled

[Tackhead]

> However I would suspect that B&B do not have the creativity to make it work.

No argument here. New writers could turn Trek into something decent. Trek's current team could turn anything into mush. If I see Berman's name on any new series, I'm not even gonna tune in to MST3K the pilot.

Fucking Trek Leadership

[dupper]

I woke my family screaming "NO!!!" upon reading the synopsis for the upcoming Enterprise episode "Regeneration. What the hell is wrong with B&B (Brannon Braga and Rick Berman), or whoever is responsible for this. I wasn't expecting the show to stoop to this level of gimmickery for at least several seasons (even worse with the T'Pol pon-farr-ish episode supposedly coming up), and, even then, I thought they would at least try to maintain some degree of continuity (the 200 year thing is complete BS, especially considering that subspace transmissions travel faster than the fastest starships, and Voyager would have only taken 70 years from the Delta Quadrant). Either give the show some decent writers and general creative control (ie, kill B&B in some horrible, painfuil way), or cancel the fucking series while it still has some damn dignity left.

On the other hand, last night's episode "Cogenitor" was the first episode of Enterprise I've ever seen which actually had a reasonably original story (trigendered species and a crewmember's fuck-up with cultural interference, clearly meant to establish the principles behind the future prime directive) and which didn't do a hollyood-liberal hippocritical pussy/cop/whore-out, and have the end be all preachy, with a thousand years of injustices and hatred completely reversed with a single visit and impassioned speach by the captain (are you listening, Voyager?). Kudos on that, but the episode was still dull as an old dog's balls.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[kongjie]

I only watch Enterprise about once a month and I have to say I was very impressed by the non-copout last night. It came close to revolutionary for this show.

Usually they will let the character, Trip in this case, just plod along repeating the same dumb behavior season after season.

I kept on waiting for Archer to add "Yeah, you were wrong. And I would have made the same mistake" at the end of his speech. But no, he left him hanging high and dry.

Of course, they had to alienate themselves from that race, otherwise there would be no explanation for why the humans didn't get a shitload of the cool technology.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[Anonymous Coward]

trigendered species and a crewmember's fuck-up with cultural interference, clearly meant to establish the principles behind the future prime directive

Yeah, it's not like we saw that story in TNG when Riker got all horny for that androgynous... um... person.

There are no new stories in the Trek universe.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[dupper]

Riker fucked out of necessity, the Trip only wanted civil rights for the cogenitor, not love or sex (presumably impossible, anyways). No, that distinction really isn't that important, but the point of both episodes and characters' relationships were entirely different. And, for God's sake, if you're posting anything other than a goatse link, use your damned account, not AC.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[Anonymous Coward]

No. I decided some months ago that the Slashdot karma game wasn't fun any more. So now I only post as AC. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. For God's sake.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[gehrehmee]

Give it a chance, continuity-wise. All indications are that these borg are left over from the First Contact movie, so the only continuity errors we're dealing with here are the usual time travel complaints.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[pantropik]

And don't forget the Trill, what with Crusher doing Riker because he was carrying the symbiote but then balking when it was moved from Riker to a female host: "Maybe one day our ability to love will not be so limited."

Or Dax ... the only hot lesbian action I've ever seen in Trek ...

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the reason they introduced the temporal cold war from the beginning was so that they would have an excuse when they made continuity errors.

See something that dosen't match up with TOS or TNG? The Suliban did it.

Re:Fucking Trek Leadership

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> Or Dax ... the only hot lesbian action I've
> ever seen in Trek ...

Which wet, saliva-string lesbian kiss are you talking about? The Jadzia/ex-Ms.-Dax kiss, or the Evil Ezri/Evil Kira kiss?

Since Vulcans don't kiss unless forced by mental telekinesis, it looks like it's up to Hoshi to get down to business.

Bold New Direction?

[11223]

I've seen other shows that have decided to take a "bold new direction". Most notable was Earth: Final Conflict, which after its second season changed the feel of the show quite a bit. The result was a disaster, more or less.

Andromeda went through the same thing about halfway through the second season, with the departure of Robert Hewitt Wolfe. The remainder of the second season was still able to use the rest of his scripts, but the third season has unequivocally sucked.

Re:Bold New Direction?

[Keeper]

Sucked is an understatement. Lack of plot, stories that made any sense, or the flair that made the series interesting...

It's been getting a BIT better, but the interaction between the characters that made the first season or two awesome still isn't there.

Re:Bold New Direction?

[11223]

Yeah - actually the recent episode which had a first contact story in the Andromeda universe wasn't horrible. It was bad on several counts (I can't believe what they're doing to Beka) but there was an engagin premise behind it.

Re:Bold New Direction?

[arcite]

Look on the bright side, Sorbo gets to do more flips and round house kicks.... oh wait

the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Keebler71]

I don't "get" why Trekies (no, not Trekers) don't like Enterprise. I have never been a fan of Star Trek. The only series that I could tolerate at all was TNG and then only the later episodes. So why is it that I, a non-trekie, loves Enterprise yet the faithful despise it? The characters are well-developed, the acting is impressive and the story lines are not nearly as predicatable as TNG. Oh, and last night's episode was the first one I can recall where there wasn't any ass-kicking at all! None of that sissy Picard diplomacy crap.

Some thoughts:

-is it because the story predates what people are familiar with?

-is it not faithful to the Trek universe?

I am genuinely curious why do you all hate it so much? Does CleverNickName have any insight?

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

IMO, the characters aren't all that well-developed, the acting is meh, and the story lines are recycled and/or predictable.

I don't care about it being faithful, and the idea of a prequel is no worse in ST than it is in real life (ie, historical stuff) - if they can tell a good story. They can't.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Jerf]

So why is it that I, a non-trekie, loves Enterprise yet the faithful despise it? The characters are well-developed, the acting is impressive and the story lines are not nearly as predicatable as TNG.

My answer is that none of the bold stuff is true, in fact it's actively false. In particular I watched a couple of episodes and literally said what will happen in five minutes. Example: In the episode where Hoshi has the transporter accident and dreams she's going out of phase, I had it figured out at the halfway point. (Rule of thumb: If the transporter can conceivably be involved, it is. Even more true on Enterprise where the transporter generally can't be involved.)

The acting is OK, I admit, but they don't have much to work with.

One of the reasons I liked Firefly is that it really was unpredictable. I'm pretty sure that Mal was going to off Jain in one episode or another, although Jain might have finally reformed if he ever figured that out... see what I mean? I don't know whether that character was going to survive into the next episode unless Fox showed him in next week's previews. In the scene where Mal has him hanging out the bay door I really thought that was it for him. You couldn't assume that anybody was going to survive.

Whereas in Star Trek, that's one thing you can always count on, and after 200+ episodes of the heros always surviving (unless their death is announced in advance in the episode preview; the only possible exception was Tasha Yar. I was young but I seem to recall you could figure it out from the preview then... anyone who wasn't 8 at the time care to comment on that?), you can actually use it as an axiom to help you resolve the plot. Pre-diddly-ictable to the max. And you know the reset button will be pushed, i.e., nothing will have effectively changed, even when it should have. Characters on Enterprise routinely forget important things from last week.

I loved Star Trek. Still love the old stuff. But post Berman/Braga has become painful and insulting. I've tried to deny it but it finally forced itself through.

The good news is that it prompted me to look around and see what else was on, and there's some good stuff out there. Stargate: SG-1 is a load of fun (The "Wormhole eXtreme!" episode kicked ass, my favorite was when it started poking holes in both Star Trek and even itself), and the aforementioned (and sadly demised) Firefly had a lot of promise. Take a look around. Of course nobody says you have to hate Enterprise, but it's average at best, and garbage at worst. (Depends on your personal rating system.)

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Lord Bitman]

Fans don't like their shit to be messed with. It doesnt make sense, but time travel is supposed to be something that only happens in the future. By screwing with the timeline, there's the impression that this isn't the same reality that leads up to what's been seen in other serii. Of course, that's why I didnt like Voyager or First Contact..
I'm a continuuity fetishist.

All that said, I think it has potential. I liked last night's episode, a lot. More stories like that are good, while stories about time travel and borg and YetAnotherPrisonStory are dull.

I think the main problem is that it's not the Style of Old Trek or New Trek, and Voyager sucked ass.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[eyeye]

Its like a cowboy drama in space, thats why we hate it.
Bad science fiction is the old stories but fought with ray guns instead of colts.
Good science fiction is where the plot is intimately entwined in a scientific concept. A genuinely new story based on a hypothetical concept.

Also Enterprise is shit because its totally illogical check out http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/e1.php3 for a small sample..

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[WIAKywbfatw]

First of all, just so everyone can flame me for being a philistine, I'll list the various flavours of Star Trek in the order in which I rate them: DS9, TNG, Voyager, TOS, Enterprise.

Now, given that I find watching all but a handful of episodes of TOS a painful experience, that should give you some indication of how badly I think of Enterprise.

Granted, I've only watched about 8-10 episodes of this latest show, but it doesn't take more than that to see that this latest offering is dire, dire, dire.

It's not that the show predates all other Treks per se, it's just that putting it before all the others shows in the Trek universe timeline seriously limits the writers as to what they can and can't do with the characters, races and technology available to them. Putting your writers in a creative straightjacket, limiting their creative scope and presenting the viewers with a wider story that leads them somewhere that they've already been doesn't work very well - just look at the Star Wars prequels for evidence. (So that's yes to your first question; but not for the reasons that you were probably expecting.)

And it's not just that it rewrites Star Trek history on the fly (Klingons that look like TNG/DS9/Voyager versions, rather than TOS oneS, etc), rather that it does so so badly. (So that's a yes to your second question; it's not entirely faithful to the previously established Trek universe.)

But if I had to give just one reason why Enterprise sucks it would be that it's dull as dishwater. None of the characters seem to have any depth to them, and there isn't a single one that I can empathise or admire in the way that I do Data, Worf, Picard, Sisko, Odo, O'Brien, Chakotay or Spock.

Frankly, Enterprise seems like a one-dimensional show with a bunch of one-dimensional characters.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

> I don't "get" why Trekies (no, not Trekers)

No, it does need to be "trekker" (note the spelling).

Here's why: If you go to a ST convention (I've been to a dozen of them) and use the word "trekkie" in front of a "trekker" person, they can sometimes get quite adamant that "trekker" is the ONLY correct word to use. On the other hand, if you use the word "trekker" in front of a person who doesn't mind being called a "trekkie", then they're almost never bothered by it.

For that reason, I have found that I need to use "trekker" to avoid triggering a hissy fit.

It is interesting to note that the "trekker" people are so much more sensitive about this issue than the "trekkie" people. It's like it's some kind of dignity thing or something. Look up "trekker vs trekkie" on Google, and you'll start to get the idea.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[B3ryllium]

Firefly kicked ass. I have every episode :)

Anyways. I kinda like Enterprise, I find it mostly tolerable, and more enjoyable than DS9 and later voyager episodes.

Only three good things ever came out of Voyager, in my opinion:

- The Doctor and (later, perhaps less "good") his mobile emitter (that 20th centry episode was hilarious - Earth was supposed to be in the middle of a clone war in that timeframe)

- The USS Prometheus (That ship kicked ASS, I want one!)

- The USS Relativity

Now, a few words on the Relativity: When the 5th trek series was announced, I had serious hopes that the story would center around the Relativity. Especially when I heard that Scott Bakula would be involved. I thought that the potential for a radical departure from cookie-cutter trek fare was well overdue, and that a 29th century time ship would be the perfect way to get away from it.

I mean, think of the limitless potential for stories? It would be truly infinite.

Alas poor dreams, but you were dashed upon the bow of an inferior ship.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Planesdragon]

It's not that the show predates all other Treks per se, it's just that putting it before all the others shows in the Trek universe timeline seriously limits the writers as to what they can and can't do with the characters, races and technology available to them.

No, it doesn't.

Tracking by causality, Enterprise takes place AFTER Voyager. The Federation won, invented time travel, and now is fighting itself in a "Temporal Cold War."

Enterprise should be purposefully different in several key ways from the earlier 'treks., and it should feel free to break continuity. Anyone who's been paying attention won't find it any more discontinuous than First Contact.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Keebler71]

I also know the quarterbacks of the teams I hate. What's your point? (That's a football reference btw...)

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Keebler71]

Speaking of last night's episode, it really rang familiar with me. What movie/story dealt with a similiar suicide vs. surrender theme? I really enjoyed the episode.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Keebler71]

I know the history. I simply refuse to allow a group to redecide how they should collectively be referred to... particularly when they ostensibly change their name to avoid a negative conotation. A rose by any other name...

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Jerf]

Firefly kicked ass. I have every episode :)

I don't have room on my TiVo for every episode and since they announced the DVD I'll probably get that when it comes out, cursing Fox loudly while I do.

But I still have one episode on my TiVo which I have not seen yet. I just watched "Serenity" three days ago (the two hour "pilot episode" which Fox saw fit to air in the middle of the season, for those who didn't watch the show; just one more way they screwed it over). I just can't stand the thought of watching "the last episode"... if it wasn't for the DVD announcement and the unaired episodes it's supposed to have those episodes would probably still be on my TiVo and goodness knows when I'd watch them...

(I wonder if the writers ever cruise the net or anything, seeing stuff like this and getting a kick out of it.)

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[B3ryllium]

(I wonder if the writers ever cruise the net or anything, seeing stuff like this and getting a kick out of it.)

I've heard that Joss Whedon gets a kick out of it, and I know that Adam Baldwin has at least used the Firefly forums on the fox website ...

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

Putting your writers in a creative straightjacket, limiting their creative scope and presenting the viewers with a wider story that leads them somewhere that they've already been doesn't work very well - just look at the Star Wars prequels for evidence.

The Star Wars prequels COULD have been great movies! (had they not been made to promote toys!)

Think about it! Old corrupt Byzantize sort of regime run by nobility - with nastier plots than they made up - eventually has a military coup lead by nationalist/republican who believe in the rights of the common citizen are tasked with cleaning up the corruption and values of a decent society bringing in much beloved security ... and in turn - the coup ideals get subverted into some sort of military oligrachy which is forced to maintain military rule due to the various rebels ... (and have a section where the Jedi are a bit fanatical nutz .. seriously fanatical nutz .. )

Yup, Star Warts could be much much better. (like having the rebels making $$$ off selling drugs ... kidnapping imperial officials .. etc)

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[antiMStroll]

Rating shows which span a 30 year period is always a tricky proposition. My perspective on this is that TOS stood tall above almost all the TV fare of its time and was the unquestioned king of SF. Voyager, on the other hand, fell to the bottom amongst its peers. Give me Lexx or Babylon 5 (or DS9) any day. I found it insufferable.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Kethinov]

No, it doesn't.

Tracking by causality, Enterprise takes place AFTER Voyager. The Federation won, invented time travel, and now is fighting itself in a "Temporal Cold War."

Enterprise should be purposefully different in several key ways from the earlier 'treks., and it should feel free to break continuity. Anyone who's been paying attention won't find it any more discontinuous than First Contact.

Exactly. I don't understand why so many people criticize Berman and Braga. I personally feel that since the 1960s the show in all its incarnations has only gotten better. There are very few episodes from TOS to Ent that I didn't like.

I think people are looking the gift horse in the mouth and are expecting too much. You can't have another war with the Dominion. You can't have another starship lost in the Delta quadrant. You can't have another galaxy class starship exploring the alpha quadrant at warp 9. Enterprise and its Temporal Cold War is original and I only for see its involvement in the temporal cold war growing. I'd like to see more of the captain Braxston-style time ship from the future kind of thing.

Think twice before you bomb Berman and Braga. They've written some of the most moving stories over the past decade and I'd vouch for either one of them being a superior story writer than Roddenberry himself.

Just my 2 cents. (and a paperclip)

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

So those of us who bailed out on Voyager after the first non-pilot episode are totally boned as far as the timeline goes? Here I was thinking that Voyager would be self-contained, not affecting my coverage of the rest of the Trek universe.

By the way, the precise moment that killed Voyager for me was "WARP PARTICLES!".

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> Only three good things ever came out of Voyager

And Seven of Nine, but I guess that's two more things.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> Lexx

Oh man, she was the hottest thing since Seven. I'm tellin' ya, put Hoshi in the catsuit and dump T'pow.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey!! What about Dr. Phlox? He must be the most likeable guy since... since.. [insert likeable guy's name here]. But I must agree with you on the point of putting the writers in straightjackets. I don't think Enterprise will continue for too many seasons, at least I hope they will replace it with a new series. (One can hope... )

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

My Spur Of The Moment Poem

I'm a Trekker
Not Trekkie
I read SF
Not Sci-fi
I'm a late bloomer
Not Virginnerdling

Thank you.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[mrbuttboy]

Putting your writers in a creative straightjacket, limiting their creative scope and presenting the viewers with a wider story that leads them somewhere that they've already been doesn't work very well

The writers are only limited by thier talent and thier boss. Just because you know how something is going to work out doesn't limit you IF your writing about PEOPLE, characters that live and breath. As you pointed out, most of the time the show has true trouble filling even a single dimension....

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[NFNNMIDATA]

These (Trek) shows are always B-A-D for the first couple of years. It just takes a while to find a groove and figure out how to write the gimmicky characters they created. Actually that's not totally true, because TOS was fairly consistent until Roddenberry left in year 3. And TNG was bad partly because of Roddenberry (ironically for the same reasons that made TOS work) until year 3. But DS9 was kind of awkward at first, so was Voyager (which I think really had the best concept of any of them - if they would have just used Nick Locarno instead of inventing Tom Paris! Same actor, nearly identical characters! Hello!), so apparently is Enterprise.

But it seems to be getting better - last night's episode, while at times dull, had a really powerful ending. Not so much the suicide, but the confrontation afterwards.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[B3ryllium]

No, three more things. ASS, man. Geez. ;-)

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Cyno01]

Klingons that look like TNG/DS9/Voyager versions, rather than TOS oneS, etc

This irkd me, most of the continuity blurbs can be explained away by the temporal cold war BS. But the upgraded Klingons (read the eugenics wars books, it alludes to what will happen to the klingons between TOS and TNG) made no sense. Oh, and thumbs up for DS9 fans, there are too few of us.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[amuro98]

My biggest problem is that Enterprise *STARTED OUT* with a trick Voyager used to boost their ratings - TIME TRAVEL.

The whole temporal cold war thing has given the writers carte blanche to bascially do whatever they want to now. Ferengi aren't supposed to that close to Earth, but hey! Maybe some time traveler gave them warp travel centuries before they would have gotten it before!

Assuming they're using the 'Back to the future' model of time travel, a full blown time travel "war" would have devastating effects on the participants' "present" (which is Enterprise's future.) The past would dissolve into a muddled mass of travellers trying to change something, which would cause others to try to counter, and still more to counter the counter, and so on...

Also, given how fickle fate is, most alterations wouldn't even involve killing anyone. It might be just as simple as going back, posing as a high school counselor, and convincing Einstein to become a house painter, for instance.

This would then have the other side-effect of creating people from the other timeline who share the past up to a certain point. At this point, who's to say which timeline is the "correct" one?

And these are issues I've just thought of in the few minutes it's taken me to type this reply. Of course, none of this will ever be dealt with in the show because as Berman illustrated with Voyager - he's not about dealing with consequences. Each show is separate, and usually includes "The magic reset button" to insure that nothing from one episode will have any bearing whatso ever on another.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Imajica]

-is it not faithful to the Trek universe? Not really a matter of being "faithful", I think the Enterprise writers constantly editing the ST time line tells us that we didn't get it right the first time. That's just really demoralising, and we are losing faith in the concept. Thus this kind of BS moves a future that's anywhere close to the "Federation" ideal even further away. If Gene could read this he would move on it I can bet you that.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[shepd]

>So why is it that I, a non-trekie, loves Enterprise yet the faithful despise it?

Let's analyse, shall we?

>The characters are well-developed

Well, see, there's problem #1. Watch TOS and see if you can even figure out what part of earth the characters were born in!

>the acting is impressive

Again, another problem. Remember -- this -- is -- Kirk -- master -- of -- the -- undramatic -- pause -- -- -- right?

>the story lines are not nearly as predicatable as TNG.

We don't want to think when we're watching TV!

>Oh, and last night's episode was the first one I can recall where there wasn't any ass-kicking at all! None of that sissy Picard diplomacy crap.

Breaking from the old stuff again! Bad, bad, bad.

>is it because the story predates what people are familiar with?
>is it not faithful to the Trek universe?

Yes, and oh God yes. Yes in so many ways. I don't even know where to begin on this.

>I am genuinely curious why do you all hate it so much?

Because they went with "f.r.i.e.n.d.s" for the theme, rather than REAL FREAKING classical-style music or crazy whacked-out screamy-whiny stuff.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

Well, technically five more if you count her stunning lips.

Re:the "problem" with Enterprise...

[mink]

This always reminds me of an excange from one of Robert Asprins Myth series.

"A Pervert!" Frumple managed to make the word sound slimy.
"That's Pervect if you want to do business with us,"Aahz corrected.
"It's Pervert until I see the color of your money," Frumple sneered back.

Skeeve: Who's a clod?
Aahz: Easy, kid. Nothing personal. Everyone who's native to this dimension is a Klahd. Klah...Klahds...get it?
Skeeve: Well, I don't like the sound of it.
Aahz: Relax, kid. What's in a name, anyway?
Skeeve: Then it doesn't really matter to you if people call you a Pervect or Pervert?
Aahz: Watch your mouth, kid.

Re:question

[Anonymous Coward]

because he knows he doesn't black

Re:question

[Anonymous Coward]

he's black 'cause he doesn't know it

(Had to be said...sorry)

These people are so predictable ...

[Ninja Programmer]

Since he claims its new, but he actually is incapable of thinking something new, its probably not really new. More likely he's just combining old elements from the past.

I.e., its probably a combination of more that one of the most hated and/or over used Trekkie elements: time travel, holodeck, Q, the Borg.

Don't give Berman/Pillar and credit, they don't deserve it.

Re:These people are so predictable ...

[PCM2]

Since he claims its new, but he actually is incapable of thinking something new, its probably not really new. More likely he's just combining old elements from the past.

Or maybe he just cribbed them from somewhere else.

Re:These people are so predictable ...

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> over used Trekkie elements: ...holodeck

I know how I'd handle the holodeck:

"Computer, Arch. No, more. Arch her back still more. Come on, Hoshi."

In case the original article is slashdotted...

[extrarice]

Change Unchained: New Aliens, New Weapons, New Hairdos, New Mission a TREK "First" Berman Tells TVG

Posted: 12:45:27 on May 01 2003
By: Steve Krutzler
Dept: Enterprise | stenterprise.com
The news about ENTERPRISE's radical new direction for season three is going mainstream in the May 10th issue of TV Guide, according to a press release from the magazine. Executive producer Rick Berman will reveal all new details about the prequel series' finale "The Expanse" and what it means for the third season of the struggling UPN show that TV Guide recently lambasted for lack of imagination (story).

In the season finale, "a mysterious probe from space will blast a swath of destruction across North and Central America, causing epic explosions and annihilating everything between Florida and Venezuela," according to the article. "As viewers will learn, this is a preemptive strike by an alien race known as the Xindi (that's Zin-dee), who have obtained knowledge that Earth will destroy their home world 400 years in the future. The hour ends on a chilling threat of more devastation to come, but this is no mere summer cliff-hanger. In fact, it marks a whole new direction for the series."

Rick Berman says the new direction will be a first for the STAR TREK franchise.

"What we are about to do is a first for STAR TREK," Berman tells TVG. "In the past, our captains have had the general mission to explore outer space and, in the case of Voyager, a mission to find a way back home. But there has never been a Trek series built around a specific mission and specific stakes-in this case, the very future of mankind."

He goes on to say that the new Xindi threat will be the greatest that Captain Archer's Earth will yet have faced.

"We find out that the Xindi space probe was merely a test and that they are creating an even more powerful weapon," Berman says. "It's up to Captain Archer to go there and stop them from destroying us altogether."

TV Guide also reveals new details about the repercussions of the finale for next season, writing that the Enterprise NX-01 will be "retrofitted for war" and that we'll get our first glimpse at the use of photon torpedos in Starfleet's history. Furthermore, the dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside)." Furthermore, even Jolene Blalock's 'T'Pol', as a result of resigning from the Vulcan High Command, "will sport a new cat suit and hairdo next season."

All the grisly details will be on newsstands May 10th.

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[Oriumpor]

well... they've already done just about everything I can think of... that's prolly why I stopped watching with the finale of TNG

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[Random Frequency]

the final episode of the next generation was cool.

It confirmed that every single star trek episode starts off at point a, goes to point b & c, and ends up back at point a again. The only difference between the first and last episodes was better graphics.

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[Tackhead]

> As viewers will learn, this is a preemptive strike by an alien race known as the Xindi (that?s Zin-dee), who have obtained knowledge that Earth will destroy their home world 400 years in the future.

Oh, crap. Spoiler for a Star Trek movie that hasn't even been written yet. Way to go, Berman!

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[RatBastard]

This HAS to be good!

• "a mysterious probe from space will blast a swath of destruction across North and Central America, causing epic explosions and annihilating everything between Florida and Venezuela,"
  Hey! We get to meet V'Ger!. No, it's that whale probe! No, it's the Borg Queen! No, it's ... been done to death.
• Earth will destroy their home world 400 years in the future.
  Yeah, because they Nuked Disneyland!
• "We find out that the Xindi space probe was merely a test and that they are creating an even more powerful weapon,"
  Oh Nos! They're bringing out MegaWeapon! Quick, drive Capt. Archer's motorcycle under it!
• dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside).
  Kill me. Just flipping kill me so I don't accidently tune into this trash while surfing for reruns of Gilligan's Planet.

And what improvements do they have in store for us?

• the Enterprise NX-01 will be "retrofitted for war"
  Uh, hu. Do the new weapons work this time?
• 'T'Pol', as a result of resigning from the Vulcan High Command, "will sport a new cat suit and hairdo next season."
  Oh, boy! Will it be something low-cut so we can see some cleavage? How about a tighter backside? How about see-through? That ought to boost ratings!

They should have let the franchise die when DS9 ended.

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[happyhippy]

If you knew that your world is going to be destroyed in 400 years time (and the destroyers didnt know) wouldnt you plan things out more instead of blindly sending a measely first wave assault test? You deserve total destruction for being that fucking stupid.
Christ, build up a massive force over 50+ years and then attack them en masse.

And yay, the first photon torpedo. Is there fucking nothing Archer & Co doesnt use for the first time seen in the other series?

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[Darren Winsper]

Err...did they forget about DS9? Let's see, major change of mission at the end of season 2 (From helping establish Bajor to the first line of defence), new and powerful enemy (The Dominion), ship designed for war (The Defiant), new uniforms and hair styles in later seasons.

I'm sorry, but this is by no means "a first for Trek", unless you buy into the B&B revised history.

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[Dausha]

What the article did not reveal, and what few of us really know, is who the leader of the Xindi is. Most of the third season will be spent with them slowly unraveling that cold, horrible truth. And, no, Bergman did not name the show after his girlfriend Cindy.

Cindy Lauperwill star as the evil leader of the Xindi--who in reality are just a bunch of girls who want to have fun. At least this time, the ST crew will encounter a race with a cool new name, instead of some rip off of something from Earth's culture (Romulan, Vulcan, Borg, Cindy^H^H^H^H^H etc.).The other neat thing is that the evil leader speaks in song.

She bop--he bop--a--we bop I bop--you bop--a--they bop Be bop--be bop--a--lu--she bop

Translation: "I hope He will understand."

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[ShavenYak]

Egads! Where are mod points when I need them? Someone give this guy a Funny! Dear Lord, diet sodas really burn in the nostrils....

Re:In case the original article is slashdotted...

[ComaVN]

annihilating everything between Florida and Venezuela

Also known as the Carribean sea. What's the point? Apart from annoying Castro?

Dude!

[Faust7]

Sure, the physical goods are there, but their behavior isn't exactly sexy.

What are you talking about? Both Seven of Nine and T'Pol had that whole pseudo-dominatrix thing going for them. Stern, firm, ready to learn you with a swift kick... ohh yeah.

Slashdotted

[MSTCrow5429]

Looks like the parent story has been slashdotted. Anyone mirror it yet?

Re:Slashdotted

[DarthWiggle]

Yeh, look up about 8 inches... :)

Which, coincidentally, was said to a friend of mine in a bar a few nights ago as he introduced himself to a young co-ed's breasts.

Kinda reminded me of watching the first episode of "Enterprise", now that I think about it... (note how I deftly stay on topic AND bring everything full circle at once)

Re:Slashdotted

[MSTCrow5429]

Look at the dates; it wasn't there when I posted. Duh.

Re:question

[Anonymous Coward]

black he doesn't know because he is

oh boy..

[Mad Quacker]

At risk to karma, I just have to say that the whole idea was "shaky" to start out with, and execution much worse. Now they are just messing up the 'trek universe to try and save the series, and their jobs. How many 'new' aliens can you introduce? How many more skin conditions and facial protrusions can you have on a humanoid body? All to be involved in plotlines from the future, and all to be long forgotten...

They should be telling the stories of how star fleet got off the ground, how traditions/laws like the prime directive got into place (i.e. I'd like to see them meet a 'new' alien race, trade some anti-matter technology, and then watch them blow up their own planet with it, everybody is all sad and they start making ground rules), what/how the pre-kirk technology worked (think transporter accident), etc. Anything more than that is just a giant kludge...

Re:oh boy..

[Shadow Wrought]

I agree with you. There is so much potential here to really give a glimpse into how the Federation unfolds itself, and how Earth began its first steps into space. You could have a all sorts of folks die every week (think Red Shorts and the transporter;-) and each time a new lesson, a new piece of the canon is solidified.

The problem, I think, comes straight from Berman. I think he is doing everything he can to erase the old ST since he did not have anything to do with it. He is trying to make TNG canon and is working all of the shows fit with that timeline, including Enterprise. My guess is that he does not realize that the core popularity of ST comes from ST itself, not TNG, or DS9, or Voyager. If Enterprise had been more representative of the timeline, if it had, in other words, set up ST instead of TNG, then it would have been a walk away hit.

Guess my initial impression that he's just a typical in over his head poodle fscker turned out to be more on point that I would have liked.

Re:oh boy..

[einstein]

I'd have to agree with that. I seem to remember an Interview with Berman years ago where he said he never really watch the original series, and didn't care for it much. bleh.

New mission

[Timesprout]

a mission he calls a Star Trek "first." For a trek server that can withstand a slashdotting

The Federation will be invaded..

[Thuktun]

...through time and space by an evil Empire from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

Where are B5 news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly I don't see B5 making #3 DVD in Amazon.

The idea was blown from the beginning...

[Mossfoot]

You want a REALLY fresh idea for Star Trek, something new and different? Well, they shouldn't have blown it from the get go. Come on, we're talking about the BEGINING of decent exploration from Earth for crying out loud! What is more interesting than the idea of being true pioneers?

Only one problem, everything here feels the same as every other show. They still have transporters, they just don't use them on people much. They don't have tractor beams, but that's an excuse so they can have a cool lookin toilet plunger launcher instead. Their phasers aren't as powerful as later shows, but big whoop, they're still phasers. Same shit, different smell, music by a Ron Stweart wannabe.

A show I WOULD have watched eagerly would have been one BEFORE all this technology (save the ability to travel at warp). NO transporters, NO phasers, NO tractor beams, heck no artificial gravity even (though that could be a problem cost wise and quailty wise, unless you have rotating sections like B5, though that doesn't mesh with its own "history"). And if you think that no longer makes it Star Trek, then you really are brainwashed about that show.

Give us something different instead of the same and simply changing it a little to seem different while giving writers the exact same conventions to fall back on under different guises.

This would help.

Well, that and having decent writers that don't simply add the "alien with the cigarette burn on the forhead of the week" each episode.

Oh yeah, and water polo? Who the hell watches water polo?

Re:The idea was blown from the beginning...

[Khomar]

What is more interesting than the idea of being true pioneers?...A show I WOULD have watched eagerly would have been one BEFORE all this technology (save the ability to travel at warp). NO transporters, NO phasers, NO tractor beams...

Sigh... Unfortunately, that show has come and gone (Firefly). There was fast space travel, but no weapons or tractor beams (just six shooters) and silence in outer space (how many sci-fi shows can say that?). There was a sense of adventure and being on the fringe of known space (although no alien creatures). Sadly, it seems that the executives only believe in shallow cliches, sex and big explosions. Anything else, no matter how good it may be, does not hold their attention long. Just look at what TNT did with Babylon 5 in the fifth season. Were it not for "The Fall of Centauri Prime", the entire last season would have been a wash.

Wait. Is that TV executives' opinions or just most of the television audience in America? That's even more depressing.

Re:The idea was blown from the beginning...

[jo_ham]

I think you've hit a proverbial nail on the proverbial head with a proverbial hammer, proverbially speaking..

The Babylon 5 universe works so well partly because they don't rely on the tech to get them out of tough spots, they do it the hard way, often with a lot of death, pain and destruction.

The only real major deaths in Trek, that I can remember offhand anyway, are Tasha Yar (killed in a stupid episode) and Jadzia Dax.

B5 had much greater depth in their characters too - Garibaldi's drinking problem, Ivonova's past and her hate of the Psy Corps, the whole Sinclair/Valen thing.

The major thing though, is that Earth's tech is not the best out there. The earth ships are clunky, unweildy and massively outgunned compared to the sleek Mimbari ships and to a certain extent, the Centauri (and of course the Vorlons and Shadows).

They have no shields, tractor beams or transporters to get them out of scrapes. The Vorlons, with their extreme power, tend not to get involved in things unless it's to dish out cryptic advice, Rotating sections for gravity, conventional chemical engines for thrust.

Not always being the biggest fish in the pond really can help the story along.

Re:The idea was blown from the beginning...

[JCholewa]

> The only real major deaths in Trek, that I can remember offhand anyway,
> are Tasha Yar (killed in a stupid episode) and Jadzia Dax.

Although I'm not trying to refute your statement, I just want to briefly gripe about Voyager: They killed off two particular characters. These characters weren't main characters, but they were the only characters in the entire show that I considered even remotely interesting. Those were Suder (a recurring character with leanings toward sociopathy -- he could have been a truly Great character, but they weened him a little and then killed him off) and Tuvix (a one-shot deal, but he was the central character to that one really good episode of Voyager).

-JC

Re:The idea was blown from the beginning...

[jo_ham]

I remember Tuvix.

They also had Ensign Lynsey Ballard - who arrived in one episode as an alien, having already died some time in the past, and they revive the love interest between her and Harry, but we've never heard of her before.

The alien species takes the dead of other races and engineers them into new children of their species.

Re:The idea was blown from the beginning...

[FredKiesche]

Greetings: You hit it on the head. I was hoping for a show with "retro-future-tech" (backwards from TOS), going out to the stars for the first time, etc. Instead with "Temporal Cold Wars" (gag), keep running into aliens from other Trek series that we supposedly ran into the **first time** in those series, etc., etc., etc. Oh well, got Season One of B5 on DVD, season two is waiting for me, got UFO on DVD, Space: 1999 on DVD, half of Outer Limits...you get the picture. And heck, I'm not even including all those unread books and that there telescope is waiting for me to use it as well... Who needs Trek?

The Trek Sex Virus

[retro128]

Slipping is an understatement. Nothing says "it's over" like the crew encountering an alien race that requres a threesome in order to reproduce.

Seriously, if I wanted to see a bunch of oddly proportioned women who wear too much makeup getting it on with average looking guys, I'll watch a porn.

Re:The Trek Sex Virus

[Thuktun]

Nothing says "it's over" like the crew encountering an alien race that requres a threesome in order to reproduce.

They stole that from Alien Nation ("Three to Tango") anyway.

Re:The Trek Sex Virus

[darkov]

Seriously, if I wanted to see a bunch of oddly proportioned women who wear too much makeup getting it on with average looking guys, I'll watch a porn.

I just have to look at the mirrors on my ceiling.

OMG they took away anonymous posting!

Re:The Trek Sex Virus

[Tablizer]

Seriously, if I wanted to see a bunch of oddly proportioned women who wear too much makeup getting it on with average looking guys, I'll watch a porn.

Perhaps that is the reason its ratings are slacking: modern geeks have access to too much porn. Go on a porn diet for a while and then try watching again.

Or, perhaps the frachise needs to become Porn Trek: Screw Where No Man Has Screwed Before; A Five Year Mission To Explore Strange New Women And Use Photon Torpedos In Ways They Weren't Meant For.

Re:The Trek Sex Virus

[retro128]

too much porn

If you were a geek, those words would never escape your lips! Repent!!

Rick Berman needs to just go.

[gadlaw]

Where to begin. This is a guy who has never had the first clue about what made Star Trek successful and will never ever know it. He killed Kirk stupidly and that was inexcusable. He's had a deathgrip on the Star Trek franchise and has been intent on squeezing the last dollar out of it. It's no fun, it's Politically Correct and boring. There isn't anyone 'Boldly going where no man has gone before' - it's all the same aliens with a different rubber thing on their heads. It's all about United Nations like problems and the proper UN type solutions. It's just completely unwatchable and just plain sad. Berman- don't go away mad, just go away.

Re:Rick Berman needs to just go.

[sql*kitten]

Where to begin. This is a guy who has never had the first clue about what made Star Trek successful and will never ever know it. He killed Kirk stupidly and that was inexcusable. He's had a deathgrip on the Star Trek franchise and has been intent on squeezing the last dollar out of it. It's no fun, it's Politically Correct and boring.

That's just the thing tho', it isn't about the money. Look at the economic history of Star Trek (the show, not the "universe"). It has been wildly profitable and long-running precisely because of the hard-core fanbase. The original series was cancelled because studio execs were too stupid to realize this, but c'mon, there have been 40 years advance in demographic analysis since then. The hard-core fans will watch the movies a few times in the cinema, then buy the DVDs then buy the special editions. They'll collect the books and buy the toys for their kids. They'll watch the TV show, and you can make a fortune selling tech advertising during the breaks, the hard-core fans are the ones who buy all the electronic gadgets like PDAs, MP3 players, new PCs every year and so on.

If I were managing the franchise it would be all about the money, which means it would be all about understanding what the hard core fans want and giving it to them on a plate, and anything they want to pay for, I'd sell. 'Cos for decades, that's what's made Star Trek's money.

Re:Bold New Direction? Ask the fans!!!!!

[Silent_E]

Most "bold, new directions" are about marketing: which hairstyle do you like better, ma'am? or which charcter would increase your demographics in this or that ratings area? Real changes have to be more fundamental: what kind of stories do we want to tell?

I'm with the "GET NEW WRITERS" crowd. I love star trek, having grown up on the original, and enjoyed young adulthood on TNG. I never bothered watching the latest after catching an piece of an episode while channel surfing. What a waste of 10 minutes. If you can't make me care about a character in 10 minutes, something is very wrong.

Ask the fans what they'd like to see. The new show is just trying to pander to the FOX crowd, not real SF fans.

Borg Look

[MSTCrow5429]

At StarTrek.com, the Borg look exactly like those from ST:FC and ST:VOY. We're supposed to believe that the Borg, a race that assimilates and modifies itself on a daily basis, doesn't change cosmetically in hundreds of years? And then there's the obvious point of why Starfleet had no clue about the Borg until the mid-24th century. At this point I just assume that Enterprise has nothing to do with the canon Star Trek universe, but is just the product of drunken script writers and Bermans.

Re:Borg Look

[NOLAChief]

From what I've been able to glean from startrek.com, they're 24th-century Borg that managed to survive the Enterprise-E destroying the Borg sphere that the Queen took back to 2063. That's why they look the same.

Re:Borg Look

[Carnivorous Carrot]

Well, there's buttloads of Borg technology still floating around in orbit from that movie. Someone's gotta stumble on it sooner or later.

Re:Borg Look

[hal97]

At this point I just assume that Enterprise has nothing to do with the canon Star Trek universe, but is just the product of drunken script writers and Bermans. Can you say Animated Series? And anyway, this is how I (kinda) think of it, at some point between Enterprise and TOS Q comes in and wipes history setting things straight (nice having a little fixit character in there)

*sigh*

[Faust7]

I do think the Borg have been done to death. They were at their best in Next Generation, and I still give props to whoever thought them up in the first place. Definitely one of the most original sci-fi enemies ever.

I couldn't stand their portrayal in First Contact (the idea of self-aware Borg queens will never sit with me) but at least they retained the menace they kept from Next Generation. Voyager was where they were finally ruined for me; they appeared in a disproportionate number of episodes, becoming less and less menacing, almost comical. This isn't something that has to happen as one grows more familiar with an enemy.

Now in Enterprise, the Borg are showing up yet again, and the audience is already way ahead of the game. I'd like to think that the writers are cleverly establishing the Borg as a hidden, secret determinant of much of humankind's history, with connections and impacts deeper than most realize. I'd like to think that, because it's either that or they've simply run out of ideas.

Re:*sigh*

[Cruciform]

Aren't the Borg just Daleks with fashion sense?

Re:*sigh*

[lowmagnet]

If you call a transmission cooler 'fashion', then yes.

Re:*sigh*

[slaker]

Well, that and the ability to negotiate stairs.

Re:*sigh*

[hal200]

Indeed. My problem with bringing the borg to Enterprise (which I rarely watch anyway) is that they are simply too powerful an enemy to be dealt with in a reasonable manner.

I mean, these are the same borg that fought their way to Earth in the 24th century, against 24th century weapons and defenses, then traveled back in time to the 22nd century. They kicked righteous Federation ass. Now they're being unleashed on 22nd century Enterprise? What the hell are the writers thinking?

This is the same Enterprise that has 'polarized hull plating', pulse cannons and a top speed of what? Warp 5? It's been established that they're not even a match for the Vulcans! And they're pairing them up against the Borg who can rip through 24th century shields in a couple of minutes, are nearly immune to phasers and photon torpedoes and can propel their ships at speeds well above warp 10 using transwarp?

If you want an idea of how badly this will go for the good guys, go watch the first ST:TNG borg episode again, and multiply the ass whooping that Picard and crew took by 100. It's like putting Pee Wee Herman in the ring against Mike Tyson on PCP. It's pretty much guaranteed to be short, brutal and very messy.

The only way they'll be able to hit the proverbial 'reset' button in an hour is by introducing some horrible plot device, because there is no plausible way for the crew to handle something like this on their own. Basically, the entire episode is going to go like this: (given an episode length of 47 minutes without commercials)

1) Enterprise is called to investigate (20 minutes)
2) The Borg kick Enterprise's ass. (20 minutes)
3) A miracle happens. (5 minutes)
4) Everyone lives happily ever after. (2 minutes)

Ugh. I think I'll just save my brain the agony, thank you very much. This is just another example of one of the three classic horrible sci-fi plots. There is no faster way to ruin a good story than by introducing time travel, clones or alternate dimensions. (and heaven help you if you manage to mire your audience in all three!) Yes, it is possible to do them right, but it's dreadfully easy to do them wrong...so very wrong.

Re:*sigh*

[jmorris42]

> There is no faster way to ruin a good story than by introducing
> time travel, clones or alternate dimensions.

There should be a law on this subject. 1st Amendment be damned. No author may publish a work of fiction, in any medium, involving time travel unless they have at least two (2) Hugo or Nebula awards. The hope being that any author so acclaimed will know better.

Re:*sigh*

[NewbieProgrammerMan]

More like Cybermen with more hoses and better makeup.

Re:*sigh*

[meehawl]

[Borg] Definitely one of the most original sci-fi enemies ever.

They are just Cybermen in drag.

the humanoid population of that planet perfected the science of cybernetics. They replaced their bodies with mechanical counterparts, and even altered the thought processes of their brains. Thus, the Cybermen were born. Ruthless and emotionless, the Cybermen began a campaign of conquest to rule the galaxy.

The Cybermen were originally humans, and the scientists of their home planet Mondas perfected cybernetics. They initially replaced only their limbs with metal and plastic, but they gradually progressed to the nervous system and finally the brain. The end product was the Cyberman, who were huge metal giants, devoid of emotion, only acted on logic, immensely strong and intent on conquest.

They even inspired Si Begg to produce possibly the world's greatest sci fi electro funk album, First Class Ticket To Telos .

Re:*sigh*

[Guppy06]

"I do think the Borg have been done to death."

"they appeared in a disproportionate number of episodes, becoming less and less menacing, almost comical."

"Now in Enterprise, the Borg are showing up yet again,"

Resistance is futile. Your favorite television shows will be assimilated.

Re:*sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

Original my ass. The Borg are just Daleks with legs. Oh wait that's the Cybermen. The Borg are goth Cybermen.

Re:*sigh*

[ZeiramMR]

Your argument seems to be pitting 24th Century Borg Tech vs. 22nd Century Starfleet Tech. It's 200-ish years earlier for the Borg too. While I think the Borg collective would still kick lots of ass, they will be a lesser threat than their incarnations on previous series/movies.

(Note that I do not watch Enterprise, and have pretty much given up on the franchise.)

Re:*sigh*

[hal200]

Sadly, it really is 24th Century Borg Tech vs. 22nd Century Starfleet Tech.

According to Berman & co, this plot picks up where First Contact left off. (Ie, Borg fight their way to Earth, travel back in time to thwart first Warp flight, Enterprise blows up borg sphere, and everyone lives happily ever after.)

Taken from the site linked to in the article:

" 3/11/03: Production Report: The official STAR TREK web site has posted its production report the May 7th episode of ENTERPRISE, "Regeneration." As previously reported by TrekWeb, the episode will feature the discovery of Borg sphere fragments from STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT in the arctic. When human scientists begin examining the strange cybernetic humanoids they find in the ice, the beings come to life and eventually steal a transport, borgify it, and run into Archer and the NX-01."

So, these borg found buried in the ice are the remnants of that borg sphere. (Which makes a perverse sort of sense...how else would Borg end up flash frozen on Earth?)

Have I mentioned yet how much I hate time travel plots?

Obligatory Simpsons Reference! (Sorry)

[Bendy Chief]

A Chorus Line [2F03] Halloween Special V

All: One! chorus line of people,
Dancing till they make us stop,
Willie: Two!
All: Many dancing people,
Covered with blood, gore and glop.

Just one sniff of that fog and you're inside out, It's worse than that flesh-eating virus you've read about.
Vital organs, they are what we're dressed in. The family dog is eyeing Bart's intestine. Happy Halloween!

The Simpsons In Space

[Bendebecker]

"Furthermore, the dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside)"brWasn't that one of the Simpson's Holloween Specials? "Look! It's that funny gas that turns people inside-out!"

Red Warrior..

[RandomInAction]

..very much correct, too easy for the writers to create no impact scripts. The best holodeck was Picard, with safe settings off, killing borg. One Voyager when the 'what evers' created a holographic 'prey' species was also OK. But 99% of holodeck stuff is guff. I find timeline elements dangerous for a decent script as well.

Enterprise "slipping"...

[AyeRoxor!]

I've liked enterprise since the beginning. I think their problem is their trying to appeal to the wrong audience. I mean, WTF.. TNG never had to sink to all these hormonal sex lows to get ratings. That's fucking sad. Is this turning into Baywatch in Space? Make it challenging, smart, witty, and complex, and you'll get what you want. Make it paltry, thin, weak, and oversexed, and you'll get the demographic you deserve.

P.S. Is everyone else's Post Anonymously button missing? Or is it just me? Do I have to log out to post anon now?

Jumping the space shark

[Thuktun]

I think this officially qualifies as jumping the shark. There's even a new hair style.

Furthermore, the dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside)."

Okay, whose third-grade son came up with that plotline?

Re:Jumping the space shark

[RatBastard]

Trek jumped the shark when Voyager started.

Re:Jumping the space shark

[B3ryllium]

Matt Groenig and perhaps Conan O'Brien.

The Important Question is....

[efuseekay]

Are They going to show regular Detox scenes from now on?

How about if....

[arcite]

While the enterprise is exploring a new nubula, they are caught in a plasma storm which shorts out their systems. The ship computer is then attacked by some alien force and gains awareness! Enterprise becomes a new character! Over the course of the rest of the series we get to follow the tear jerker exploits and follies of the ship as it makes it journey to discover what it means to be 'human'....

Re:How about if....

[macdaddy357]

The new alien race is an ally of the federation. They are called the tee-pees. They have white cylindrical ships that go around uranus wiping out the Klingons.

Re:And what has the recurring theme been?

[Lord Bitman]

You haven't seen TNG at all? Voyager borg looked different enough from the borg as they first appeared. Hey- WAIT! What was the plot of First Contact again? Was it the crew of the enterprise making first contact with an alien species which had just developed warp travel? Yeah, that must have been it. Certainly the advanced borg showing up fifty years prior to the "Enterprise" events was due to some uhh.. nope, no excuses. You're just stupid.

Please note that I'm not calling you stupid for not knowing StarTrek trivia, I'm calling you stupid for accepting them in First Contact but not accepting them on the NXQRLP-whateverthehellthenumberis. If they have them show up twice, that's going too far, but for Borg to not even try messing with Federation history again would be stupid. (Hm, we just barely failed. Let's never try again!)

The only way

[actappan]

The only way to save enterprise is to put Archer in an orange sweatshirt and have him die every episode.

Re:The only way

[Dr. Spork]

Well spoken!

T'Pol: "You bastards!"

Re:The only way

[statusbar]

Oh my god! You killed Archer!

--jeff++

Re:The only way

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, has to be red (tradition :)

But throw in Q, and it sounds like you've got the whole plot for an episode right there (remember the one where Picard dies?) ...

Re:The only way

[euxneks]

"Oh my god! They killed Archer! You Bastards!"
*space rats come and take his body away*

I totally agree.

[YllabianBitPipe]

This series would have been so much better if it predated encounters with aliens and space travel, and spent a few seasons building up to that. I would have loved to have seen a season devoted to humans getting used to the idea of Vulcans and Klingons running around, used to the idea of space travel. They blew these opportunities from the first show, with the Vulcans already hanging around. Gone is the sense of DISCOVERY. The crew on the Enterprise has that totally glazed over Star Trek "been there done that" look about them, and the should be freaking out over the newness of everything!

Re:I totally agree.

[Joe Tie.]

You've stated exactly the problem I have with Enterprise as well. After Voyager, the series was in desperate need of something to differentiate itself from the previous shows. The sense of newness, and seeing our treky protagonists as a tiny fish in a huge ocean is what I was all prepared to love. Instead we've gotten a couple episodes with these aspects, but the vast majority could be flipped over with Voyager or TNG, universal translators and everything. I like the universe enough that more of the same makes for an acceptable show, but it's such a wasted potential. Instead of what could have been a great show that I eagerly looked foreward to, it's just something I watch when I have a little extra time in the week.

I'm a doctor, not a scriptwriter!

[Tackhead]

Just in case "It's dead, Jim" didn't quite cover it :)

Re: I'm a doctor, not a scriptwriter!

[Black Parrot]

> Just in case "It's dead, Jim" didn't quite cover it :) [*]

Funny enough, they seem to think it needs a hairstylist rather than a doctor or a screenwriter.

Maybe the problem lies at the producer level?

[*] Is an italicized smilie a smirkie?

Bring in J. Michael Straczynski!!!

[arcite]

Says it all... although I doubt he would stoop low enough to be a writer for that sinking ship ;p

Re:Where the FUCK are the KDE3 debs???

[Anonymous Coward]

You got that right. Gentoo has totally taken over from them. Hell, the Debian lusers might as well drive their wives and girlfriends over to the Gentoo guys, as they probably don't know what the fuck they're doing in THAT department either!

Sad state of affairs...

[WeekendKruzr]

While I've already given up on the show and am unsure as to whether or not this changes my mind, I would just like to say that it's a rather sad state of affairs when he actually has to state that part of their new and improved direction will be to actually give the audience a mission type that hasn't been seen before. In any other show or movie innovation & new ideas would be simply be taken for granted as necessary for survival, but apparently not in Berman's or Paramount's view.

They should have let this franchise die with Voyager or even possibly just DS9. I mean honestly, has there ever been an idea that has been stretched and milked as much as Star Trek?

IT's as if DS9 never existed....

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

"What we are about to do is a first for STAR TREK," Berman tells TVG. "In the past, our captains have had the general mission to explore outer space and, in the case of Voyager, a mission to find a way back home. But there has never been a Trek series built around a specific mission and specific stakes-in this case, the very future of mankind."

Funny, I thought the last few seasons of DS9 did deal with a specific threat to the very future of mankind. Does Berman want to pretend that DS9 doesn't exist?

Re:IT's as if DS9 never existed....

[Genom]

No...but I'm betting he's trying really hard to believe Space Battleship Yamato (AKA: Star Blazers) doesn't ;P

Re:IT's as if DS9 never existed....

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

Well, maybe they'll at least come up with a bad guy as cool as Leader Desslok...

And they can start a countdownm updated at the end of each episode. Maybe Berman can pretend he invented that, too.

Re:IT's as if DS9 never existed....

[mink]

But Enterprise is no where near the Yamato rip-off that Crusade.

Solution to the non-canon problems

[Thuktun]

Since Enterprise has had a running plotline involving time travel and interference from the future, it wouldn't suprise me if they planned to wipe everything back to the beginning in the finale.

Either that, or Bob Newhart wakes up and marvels at the bizarre dream he just finished.

Why I watched Next Generation

[Sophrosyne]

The reason Next Generation was so good, at least in my opinion is that is strayed from atypical sci-fi plots.
It presented an idealized human race, but still was interesting given some minor conflict.
Of course that all changed and slowly became cowboys and indians in space.
Scrap the show, stop the fighting, maybe get more intellectual writers who actually care to examine what the future can be, and perhaps try and present new ideas to the viewer. The kind that cause introspection, like what it means to be human, or what if you were faced with some difficult life altering decision. Not how do we meet these new aliens with our new hair doo's.
Berman has issues, trying to make Star Trek mainstream is akin to trying to make pocket protectors a fashion statement- it's just pathetic. If they can write decent plots that don't seem to come from a cracker jack box, and hire some actors with a little bit of LIFE to them, then people will watch regardless of how geeky it seems.
Oh but wait a second, that might actually require work!

Re:Why I watched Next Generation

[Anonymous Coward]

Philosophy doesn't sell. And Kirk was a cowboy.

Oi. Star Trek != TNG. It is an action based series, after all.

Farscape

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah I watched farscape before enterprise one night and it was like watching 10 enterprise episodes in terms of plot developement and action. Enterprise looked like it was just out of ideas

Confused ...

[Mind Socket]

Did anyone else read the subject line and think companies were hiring illegal immigrants and punks and providing them with Nerf weapons?

Oh ... just me.

I cannot stand the show either

[arcite]

IMO Trek lost its true 'magic' when Roddenberry died. The plots of STOS and STNG may have been corny at times, but they always had thought provoking messesges. They relied on exploring ideas, rather than cgi light shows. Character development took centre stage. When I watch the new 'enterprise' there is no energy or tension... it almost seems like someone is telling the actors to hold back their emotions??? They seem stilted, wooden, comatose even. The show has no pulse, no heartbeat. That is why I can't stand it.

Knockers

[simetra]

So long as they keep the Vulcan chick with the knockers, I'm there.

What we don't need, are more of those dumb-ass "putty-on-the-bridge-of-my-nose-means-I'm-really-s cary" bad guys. Enough already!

I think

[Timesprout]

they should devote a few episodes to the Enterprise and the federation switching over to OSS. All their gui's look the same which is why I am assuming its not already OSS.

If should be fun to watch them launch flame wars over the benefits of various distros, get the laterst rpm's, explore space, battle aliens and save the earth all at the same time.

Some random suggestions for improving TREK...

[YllabianBitPipe]

1. Kill off some major crew members. Replace them with more interesting ones. Why does every Trek have to have the same people for years on end. Takes the fun out of things because you know nobody is in any real danger out there. 2. I have yet to see anything in Trek that matches the trio of Kirk, Spock and McCoy. That had nothing to do with space, aliens, or missions. That was three friends dealing with each other's personality quirks. It's the key to any hit show. Get some memorable, alive characters and you got a series. 3. Look at what Smallville is doing with the Superman canon. Now that, although I am loathe to admit it, is interesting. You CAN fill out back story and not resort to time travel and Borg. You just have to get good characters, interesting yet familliar situations and run with it. 4. Get some new writers. The Berman team is like the Eagles playing the same damned song over and over again for a decade. Every song they write sounds like one written before.

Re:And what has the recurring theme been?

[MSTCrow5429]

The reason they look vastly different from TNG to FC is due to budget and make-up techniques. One must assume that budget and make-up techniques have been carried over to ENT, so there's not an excuse not to make them look different for other reasons. After FC established the new look, it was carried on into ST:VOY. Unless, as another poster states, they are from the sphere, they should not look the same due to simple technology differences. I am quite knowledgable on all things Star Trek, especially technology, vessels and uniforms. ENT just doesn't follow known ST history very well, while TNG-VOY era was much more in sync.

Re:question

[Anonymous Coward]

You
are all
the same
gay ass
person.

IP ADDRESS LOGGED.

New Aliens

[LiquidCoooled]

sod new hairdo's - I'm watching "Cogenitor" episode now, and ive just heard t'pol ask Commander Tucker to "download these films and transfer them to the Viseans' database"

I cant wait to see the episode when the massive MPAA mothership comes into battle with Enterprise

Jack Valenti at the helm - torpedo bays stuffed full of lawyers - communications officers spamming all frequencies

"WE ARE THE MPAA - RESISTENCE IS FUTILE!!!"

New Hairdos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh wow, that makes all the difference. I am so there already.

Mind you.. there is only one acceptable hairdo for daring space adventurers.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you:
Arnold J Rimmer!

Re:New Hairdos?

[soccerisgod]

But SIR! May I remind you of space chorps directive 1209-b/2 where it clearly states...

Re:New Hairdos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Space Corps directive 1209-b/2? "Dolphins May Not Be Kept In Crew Quarters"?
A fine point Sir, but is it really relevant at this point?
...
Ah, I see. You meant 1209-b/3, "Do Not Quote Red Dwarf To Excess, You're Not Nearly As Funny As You Think You Are". I'll shut up then.

Number one, go nuber two (beavis).

[dsch_iter]

Indeed, star trek series now lacks of imagination. Sci-Fi nowaday aregenerally boring, since most of them are alike. Yeah yeah. new generation, new ship, new character, so expectable,old medicine new bottle, i rather watch porn instead :-). (Unlike Matrix :-), so much better) Sci-fi nowaday should focus on mysticism, supsense & innovation, history reference. new gizmo & technology's sci-fi are fading away, so '80s. same advice for James Bond crap. :-)

Relax B5 is fine...

[arcite]

Dude... they just came out with season 2, give it some time!

Proof I'm not a Trekkie

[Alethes]

I was really trying to figure out what Aliens, Hairdos and Weapons had to do with Enterprise-level software. I can't figure out if that's a good thing or not.

It's already oversexed...

[stefanlasiewski]

how about a hot babe with all the nice bits PLUS an actual PERSONALITY?

Wrong. Treat me like I'm not a walking lump of hormones. I have an intelligent brain and I like to watch intelligent shows that don't use sex as a replacement for a storyline.

The sex factor in Enterprise was already overused from episode one. "Hey, I have a great idea, let's have T'Pol strip down to her underwear, and rub lotion all over the studly guy. And we'll make it the longest scene in the show, to show off the 'smart storyline'. That's gotta be original, and it will appeal to the intelligent women in the audience."

What the hell were they thinking? How the hell can I take this show seriously when they stoop so low?

I'd rather them focus on the storyline. There are dozens of TV shows with cute girls, even some with personality, but few of the shows are worth watching.

How about some good plots with believable struggles science. Time travel? Please...

I miss Babylon 5. Granted, the characters weren't very sexy, some of the acting was cheesy, and yes the Vorlon-Shadow war had a really stupid ending, but in general it had a good, consistant storyline which kept me coming back episode after episode. I have most of Season 3 & 4 on tape, and I still watch them.

Deep Space Nine got really damn good, and it had better actors then B5.

Re:It's already oversexed...

[SectoidRandom]

I could not agree more! Damn it if what it takes to make sci-fi in general more appealling is to turn it into some junk like friends, no thank you!

I believe people like you and I are the majority though amoung sci-fi fans, sure every high school geek would love to see Tupol's butt but these show's are not meant for kids..

Bring on the Intelligent scripts, complex plots, interesting themes. That is why we are here!

Re:It's already oversexed...

[ChuckleBug]

Wrong. Treat me like I'm not a walking lump of hormones. I have an intelligent brain and I like to watch intelligent shows that don't use sex as a replacement for a storyline.

I believe you have an intelligent brain, but you seem to have failed to notice my post was not exactly serious.

See, I was making fun of the lame and obvious overuse of sex when ratings...oh, never mind. Back to the humorlessness already in progress.

More Fundamental Problems: Borgs Will Not Help

[Anonymous Coward]

The "Enterprise" suffers from a bad match between the actors and the characters. Replace Scott Bakula, who plays "Captain Archer", with someone like Harrison Ford. Bakula's acting is dull and uninspired. Then, get rid of T'pol and replace her with a male Vulcan. What is a female science officer with big tits doing in outer space? She should be in inner space, working at a strip club. Get rid of that African-American officer. He suffers from an Ebonics accent. Why do we still have Ebonics in the 23rd century?

Lastly, replace the communications officer with a rugged man or woman. Linda park looks too gorgeous and too frail to be going into outer space on scare missions.

Remember Kirk, Spock, and Bones? We need that comraderie and toughness and wit again. The current "Enterprise" just do not have the magic.

Vulcan loins on fire!

[moncyb]

They need to hire some pr0n writers. That's what they (and I) want anyway. After all, they hyped this week's episode as a kinky three way sex romp. Maybe all of network TV should do it. I heard the WB did the same for 7th Heaven--Beverly Mitchell gets her freak on!

Re:Vulcan loins on fire!

[vrmlguy]

How about this:

Episode Title: 'Bounty'
Episode Number: 225
Airdate: May 14, 2003
Synopsis: "A Tellarite bounty hunter captures Archer intending to turn him over to the Klingons for a substantial reward. Meanwhile, T'Pol is infected with an alien pathogen that unleashes her primal Vulcan urges."

Re:Vulcan loins on fire!

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> Synopsis: "A Tellarite bounty hunter captures
> Archer intending to turn him over to the
> Klingons for a substantial reward. Meanwhile,
> T'Pol is infected with an alien pathogen that
> unleashes her primal Vulcan urges."

Hey! You can do the same little trick with Star Trek synopsis as you can do with Chinese fortune cookies:

- A Tellarite bounty hunter captures Archer intending to turn him over to the Klingons for a substantial reward... ...in bed!

- Meanwhile, T'Pol is infected with an alien pathogen that unleashes her primal Vulcan urges... ...in bed!

What about just good writing

[raque]

I think they just killed ST for me. Enterprise started out ok but has slid and slid. They don't need gimiks they need good basic writing. Look at "City on the edge of Forever", perhaps the only good time travel story done, the plot is pretty straight forward. What makes it work is the writing, it's the interaction of the characters while in the situation that works. Look at Babalyon 5, a more or less standard sci-fi setup, but with great writing.

Re:What about just good writing

[witchman]

AMEN Brother!!!

I've thought that ever since Voyager the writing completely sucks. I was very diheartened to see that B&B would be producing this series (since they basically pick the writers too).

Babylon 5, great example. Low budget FX great writing = Awesome series. Same can be said for the original Star Treak.

Star Trek's 9/11

[falsification]

In the season finale, "a mysterious probe from space will blast a swath of destruction across North and Central America, causing epic explosions and annihilating everything between Florida and Venezuela," according to the article. "As viewers will learn, this is a preemptive strike by an alien race known as the Xindi (that's Zin-dee), who have obtained knowledge that Earth will destroy their home world 400 years in the future. The hour ends on a chilling threat of more devastation to come, but this is no mere summer cliff-hanger. In fact, it marks a whole new direction for the series." ... It's up to Captain Archer to go there and stop them from destroying us altogether."

The Xindi attack is obviously a rehash of 9/11. This whole thing is just a cheap shot against the War on Terrorism.

Just substitute the "Xindi" for Arabs. The "Arabs" attacked America on 9/11. The Xindi attacked Earth in the Star Trek future. Note that the Trek producers call the Xindi attack "preemptive." That's how Bush referred to the Iraq war. Berman is turning Star Trek into utterly non-subtle hard left political correctness run amok.

SPOILERS. Here's what will happen. I guarantee this. It's so predictable. First, Archer will angrily make a military foray against the Xindi, determining to wage his own preemptive strike. He will look with disdain and haughtiness at all diplomatic solutions. But his military efforts will prove fruitless. He will only succeed in killing a lot of civilians. Then, there will be a big moment that hammers the "cycle of violence" fallacy home with an opprobrious sledgehammer. Then, Archer will realize that the only way to stop the "cycle of violence" is to hang out with the Xindi in their bars and holy places and become friends with them, and even take up their traditional practice of basket weaving or whatever. Unfortunately, Archer's "epic lesson" (of LIES!!) will be forgotten by an arrogant Federation. Then, in the next TNG movie the Xindi will attack again! (Well shucks, like that isn't obvious.) That's when Picard must go through the same process that Archer went through. Fortunately, Kirk's legacy will be dead and so there will be no unnecessary blastings. And of course, the Xindi will turn out to be fundamentally friendly. As for why they blew up a large chunk of planet Earth, well, hey, you can't blame them for that! At the time, the Xindi were led by Republicans! They were warlike and militaristic. They thought that was the best way of protecting themselves, by striking first! Only Jonathan Archer taught them how to live in peace.

Give me a break.

I used to like Star Trek. Now, I can't tolerate it. No matter how much Star Trek there is on TV or in the movies, that won't change the fact of how, for example, little Iraqi children will no longer have to endure electric drills being pushed through their wrists while their parents are forced to watch.

Rick Berman, you are a loser.

I'm sure someone will say something like, "Hey, how do you know this isn't a return to TOS, and epic space battles? Why do you assume that this will be antiwar propaganda?" Hey, buddy. This is Star Trek. It's wussy sci-fi.

Re:Star Trek's 9/11

[gordgekko]

Well said. I've been tired for a very long time of Star Trek's rampant PC politics. My dad had the power to lecture me and on occasion he still can so I don't need California vegetarian liberals telling me why I'm evil and not as enlightened as they are.

Re:Star Trek's 9/11

[cranos]

I'm sorry you make the assumption that Star Trek was anything but left wing. It always has been, from TOS to Enterprise.

If you don't like the show then don't watch it, pretty simple really.

Re:Star Trek's 9/11

[falsification]

I like TOS. I kind of like TNG. I never watched DS9 or Voyager much. Don't like Enterprise at all. It's not that I hate Star Trek. It's that I expect more from Star Trek. I expect it to be thoughtful.

Re:Star Trek's 9/11

[cranos]

So do I, that's why I don't like Voyager or DS9 either. Haven't watched much of Enterprise and the only bit I liked was the shower scene during the Pilot Ep.

Star Trek as represented by TOS and TNG has always been to me a good mix of the frontier ideal and the idea that one day humanity can get it's act together. Maybe I'm just being an idealist but hey this is ./

Re:Bring in J. Michael Straczynski!!!

[drdink]

s/sinking ship/core breech/

Sick and tired of being sick and tired

[deadgoon42]

I am horrified to hear that Enterprise will be changed. I thought one of the strong points of the show was that it was similar to the original series. Although it does have that stupid "temporal cold war" ongoing plot line, most of the episodes are autonomous. It also shows the future as being hopeful and wonderous. It has been good sci-fi so far. I know that most people who are Trekkies nowadays don't care about such things. All they care about are the Borg, interstellar war, professional wrestling type ongoing plot lines, etc. It seems sci-fi is doomed to become a second rate genre no better than romance novels for nerds.

The crew must die

[Dr. Spork]

Oh, I love to rant about this show but I've decided it just sucks too much to be worth the effort of ranting. But I'll say this:

If they want the show to have some dignity, the whole crew should die. I really mean die. It's not like that sort of thing doesn't happen in experimental spaceship programs, especially when those ships are getting shot at. Maybe Mayweather could live, because I like him. But the rest should die. The ship should be rebuilt and taken over by a more interesting crew, and they should get some less open-ended missions, something better than "go out there and look around." (Realistic example: espionage on the Klingons, acquisition of advanced tech from other races who are willing to deal, support of Earth-friendly regimes in space, etc.)

The whole point of flashing back to the pre-federation days with the show is that they don't have to be so goody-goody, especially when it seems like all of space is out to get the Earth's goods.

I also really hate the fact that on our first voyage into deep space, we pick fights and don't get our asses handed to us in the first milisecond. How likely is that? Many of these hostile races have been fighting in interstellar space for generations. The Enterprise is the first ship we built which is sturdy enough to take us really far. But to pretend that this reconissance ship could fight a battle in deep space is like thinking the Aztecs could have challenged the British navy with a paddleboat and a harpoon.

That's why I think it's very realistic that they would all die. And, it would improve the show. It would be just the sort of bold, interesting move Berman is advertising, but won't deliver.

Re:The crew must die

[cgenman]

Perhaps they shouldn't all die (T'Pol is scheduled to play a historical role in the Vulcan empire). Perhaps the studio should take all of the bridge crew, put them in a Shakespearan play, a broadway revival, and a modern introspective sex monologue, and have them judged by an impartial panel of actors. The half that score the lowest, lose their spot, with their character being killed or irrecoverably lost sometime during the next season. Redshirts should also weave their way through several episodes then perish, to keep people on their toes about who is going to die and who is going to take the helm.

That way, the surviving characters can have depth to them, the crew can explore role dynamics and charcter issues in uncertain times, and new blood will be injected into the series to mix in interesting ways with old blood.

My guess is that Trip, T'pol, Hoshi, and Billingsley survive.

Am I the only one that likes this?

[crimsonPaladin]

Enterprise seriously needs something. The producers chose not to take the path that they should have, which could have been epic.

They could have had serious catastrophies from interfering with other cultures, leading up to the prime directive. Instead we get Last nights episode, which was one of the better episodes imo, but it needs to be more compelling.

What I gather from reading various hints from Berman is that they are taking a completely different direction. A corpse of a borg that travelled back in time from the movie Star trek 8:First Contact is discovered. The ramifications of this could be fantastic from a writing standpoint. The Enterprise crew is no longer bound to the history of the federation from previous series. Anything could happen after this event. Including humans reaching much higher technological levels earlier and the problems that arise from this.

The series greatly needed something Epic, they just chose a different route than most people expected, and I am all for it.

What do you mean Enterprise is going downhill?

[eSchmitty]

I've absolutley LOVED every episode that I've seen. If feel a sense of adventure and rawness with this star trek that I havn't felt in a very long time. It reminds me of the beginnings of TNG. Last night's episode (cogenitor) was brutally honest. I'll agree that the setup was a little slow, but the last scene between Archer and Trip was gut wrenching. The rawness of that scene almost made me cry ;) I love Enterprise.

Re:What do you mean Enterprise is going downhill?

[swordgeek]

Interesting.

I have to admit, I can't claim to have watched too many episodes of Enterprise. After the first few very promising ones, it seemed to degenerate into a cowboy show--a REALLY TRITE cowboy show that took itself too seriously. It may have improved, but every time I turn it on I see a lot of the same stuff. It just doesn't hold my interest.

TNG started out Bad, in my opinion. Then it sort of came together around the second season (after they turfed Wesley and the helpless security twit). Then it fell apart completely. The reason? Too much preaching, too much self-importance. They (the writers) took themselves SOOOOOOO seriously, and we ended up with space-opera dreck.

Why can't anyone make shows that are creative? We've got ideas from 35 years ago that haven't been properly explored in a Trek-context yet. How did the prime directive come about? What sort of tension led to the different (warring or not) factions in the Trek universe? In other words, WHERE ARE THE STORIES?

Not to criticise your opinion--we don't have to agree at all--but I just don't see why the show is being written anymore.

Where's the problem?

[soccerisgod]

Those guys knew perfectly well what they were doing when they didn't name the child "Star Trek Enterprise" but just plainly "Enterprise".

You hate it? Ok. It's not canon. There. I said it.

Writers

[witchman]

All the show really needs are new writers and producers. I hated Burman and the other dude when they bombed with Voyager. What made ANYONE think that they could do any better with Enterpise????

The Eugenics Wars

[DeadVulcan]

I agree with those saying there's been no imagination in coming up with new Star Trek series. They are all carbon copies of each other, with the possible exception of DS9.

In the vein of different Star Trek stories, has anyone read the novel(s) "The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh?" It's in two parts, and I'm impatiently waiting for the second to appear in paperback.

I know this is just slightly off-topic, but I must talk about it!

The story (obviously) follows the life of Khan. However, in an absolute stroke of genius, the writer also included the character of Gary Seven, the mysterious alien-bred human introduced in the original series. The episode was clearly being set up to be spun off, but never did.

As I said before, I think that putting Gary Seven and Khan on the same stage (or rather, realizing that they would have been contemporaries) was a stroke of genius. They're both genetically enhanced, but with completely opposite political and personal ideologies.You could not ask for two men more perfectly crafted to oppose each other in a dramatic conflict.

Gary Seven was sent to Earth to quietly pull strings and guide world events for the betterment of the human race. Khan actually has similar motives, but intends to fix the world by forcibly taking control of everything. He's not the obsessed villain of ST:TWOK (not yet, anyway), and he's a thoroughly believable character.

It's amazing that the stage, the plot, and the characters for this story could all emerge by accident! When you realize they were on the same planet at the same time, you realize they must have butted heads.

Make a miniseries of this, I say. I'd be all over it.

BTW, if you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it. There's a little bit of gratuitous reference-dropping, but I have nothing else bad to say about it. Read it!

Re:The Eugenics Wars

[Cpt_Kirks]

There's a little bit of gratuitous reference-dropping

A "little bit"? Try tons. And not just ST, there's Six Million Dollar Man and lots of others. Kind of makes the book a hoot.

BTW, the paperback is out

Re:The Eugenics Wars

[juhaz]

They are all carbon copies of each other, with the possible exception of DS9.

Well yeah, and that exception is only because it's carbon copy of B5 with all the good stuff missing.

Borgs or Grobs...

[Pollux]

It doesn't matter what kind of aliens they bring to the TV show. They could bring a species that is all-female who have breasts as big as Dolly Parton. They're going to fail at their present rate of speed. Granted, you could come up with any excuse you want, but the real reason why is because the storylines suck. Even if the stories are half-descent, the endings are downright horrible.

Seriously...I have found maybe two episodes that had a semi-descent ending this season. Maybe. But most endings I would equate to Shakespeare ending his play Julius Caesar by having Cleopatra's priests raise Julius from the dead so that he can take his revenge out on Brutus.

I could be wrong, but it feels as if each conflict is resolved in less than a minute at the very end of the show. Good example: the episode with Trip and Malcolm are stuck in a shuttle for fourty minutes of the show, and then in the final two minutes of the show, they micraculously reappear on Enterprise, already rescued by the crew. It has made me more and more frustrated each and every time I watch an episode, almost to the point where I don't want to be let down one more time.

Bring in Joss Wheedon

[monopole]

In the name of all that is holy!
-Get rid of B&B (Via a leaf chipper if possible).
-Kill the reset button, characters either evolve or die!
-Get some aliens that are _alien_!

Hand the whole thing over to one of the folowing individuals:

-Joss Wheedon: He's got time on his hands. He can create real characters. The story will evolve. He can do aliens (read demons) well. He _will_ do something different, he _will not_ rehash the new thing 10,000 times. He _will_ find ways of finding entirely new things to do with the most threadbare plot devices. He will make the first officer a lesbian.

-JMS: He will construct a complete story arc. He will do aliens right. He will crush the reset switch. He will make the first officer a lesbian.

-Kevin Smith: He will make the scripts a lot snappier. Even if the show continues to suck it will be funny as hell. He will make the first officer a lesbian.

Did anyone actually *watch* last night's episode?

[bc90021]

Did anyone even watch last night's episode? There are so many people saying it was "refreshing". No, it wasn't. Here's why:

1) The cogentior killed herself. Seriously, who didn't see that coming a mile away? Could they have made that any more obvious?? Give her "you can climb mountains" and then force her back into the room to do nothing all, and what did they think was going to happen?

2) Second, where does Archer get off saying he never interferes? He interfered with those aliens that were strung upside down (even fighting T'Pol to go back after he took her advice to leave), he interferes with the Vulcans, with the Andorrians, , he breaks Suliban out of prison camps, etc.

3) There was a subplot with Reed and that female alien being all sensual with each other. Then she flat out propositioned him. (This after the "AIDS" episode, but never mind.) Um, how did this end? Did they sleep together? Why did they just drop this completely?

4) Trip gets no reprimand? This is supposed to be a navy-like organisation, and he's just been responsible for the death of a cogenitor, and as Archer states "the child that would have happened, too". He doesn't get a rank demotion or anything? Yes, his guilt is punishment, but hey, let's just yell at him and let it go at that. (Tom Paris interfered in a culture, and was reduced in rank in addition to his guilt.)

Have you ever heard of...

[PortWineBoy]

a spoiler warning friend? Thanks. You've made my Tivo doubt its sense of self-worth.

the enterprise

[m1chael]

spontaneously combusts killing all the crew instantly except for t'pol who is by off chance transported to earth at this very instant by a naturally occuring wormhole (which is a very effective ploit device :P). a new enterprise crew of all women models in tight clothes are assigned to t'pols and seven of 9s crew to be on the new enterprise earth was making (before the combustion enterprise travelled some years into the future). this new crew and a new enterprise goto where no woman has gone before and explored mud wrestling (and other forms of wresting, jelly comes to mind) with new species of well endowed woman aliens.

warning: this is humour, possibly bad humour.

Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[leereyno]

The problem with this show is that it's being used as a platform for left-wing propaganda. It's the worst example of this since the Alien Nation series on Fox a decade back. I've only watched a handful of episodes and each time I was left with the feeling that the story and characters were little more than a gimmick to get people to watch what was otherwise a one-hour presentation on left-wing ideology.

The only way this show can be "fixed" is to get rid of whoever is writing that kind of crap and replace them with real writers.

Lee

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[August_zero]

shhhhhhhhhh! Nobody tell this guy that StarTrek has been from it's inception, LIBERAL in it's presentation.

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[yudel]

Yes, but DS9 and TOS threw in characters and conflict.

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[jmorris42]

Of course you realise that ST:TOS was exactly the same sort of propaganda. Folks just don't realize it because when we watch it now most of the more controversial 'lessons' from the sixties no longer seem controversial. Because the liberals won those issues, largely through the use of propaganda in the mass media like _Star Trek_. Not saying it was a good or bad thing, just wanting people to realize why B&B think they can get away with what they are doing.

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[toddhisattva]

If the Yangs vs. Coms was a liberal episode, then the Coms would have won. Liberals hate America.

And who's gonna call Lt. Cdr. Montgomery Scott a "liberal?" They guy don't take shiite from nobody, and believes (quite accurately) that the best diplomat is a fully charged phaser bank.

Sure, some eps ("Let That Be Your Last Battlefield") were typical simplistic liberalism. But the best eps were apolitical, or even a mix: Edith Keeler in "City" was isolationist PLUS bleeding-heart. A nuance that the current idiot liberal (I know, redundant) writers can't realize.

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[vandenh]

That is because in the future, people *will* be more sensible and "liberal" and money, power, war and greed will not be so dominant. It is that or mass exctinction in the near future. So in a way this "leftwing propaganda" as you call is a valid and realistic view of the future. Logically it is the only direction humanity can take if it does not want to self destruct.

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[kalidasa]

Left-wing propaganda? You mean like The Expanse, or "another excuse for George W. Archer to beat up on the bad guys?" For crying out loud, doesn't this just SMELL "September 11 Exploitation" to you morons?

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[leereyno]

Every country that has taken the left-wing path has wound up somewhere between Stalinism and mediocrity. Communism leads to a police state and socialism leads to France. America on the other hand can trace its path to greatness back to the liberal ideals upon which it was founded and which have guided its course ever since. Ideals such as individual rights that aren't subject to the whim of the state, government that is limited in its scope and powers and responsive to the will of the people, separation of CHURCH and state, equality before the law, free enterprise and the preservation of economic opportunity. These are what true liberalism is about, not the Marxist lies that the left tries to call liberalism. Your left-wing neo-bolsheviks are no more true liberals than a cracker/script-kiddie is a genuine hacker.

You say that people in the future will be more sensible and liberal. I certainly hope you're right. A left-wing police state complete with commissars and gulags is one particularly frigtening alternative that I'd rather die a thousand deaths than see come to pass.

Re:Enterprise is nothing but left-wing propaganda

[vandenh]

>socialism leads to France

ROFL.. you haven't lived in France I presume. I am sure a lot of people will agree with me that it is a much better country to live in than the US. You know.. extreme Capitalism combined with some hardcore nationalism isn't always a good thing.

No hope for Berman

[scotay]

Not unless "new hairdo" translates into "Brazilian Wax" am I sticking around for this train wreck.

booo!

[SectoidRandom]

Blah.. I love listening to Trekkies whine about Voyager and Enterprise, many of those same people probably will claim Babylon5 was a master stroke in quality acting and inteligent scripts!

Boo too you!

IMO, Enterprise has much potential, it has so far been very good (with only a few exception) and looks like it is only getting better!

The claims that Enterprise is going downhill showed clearly by the level of interest (ratings) is a joke, it is very clear that today's tv viewers and execs don't care much for scifi, hence the canning of the very good series Farscape, and even Futurama! That's a sad fact that us sci-fi lovers always have to deal with, of course it is only made worse by all the whiners who bitch and moan constantly!

ps. I also enjoyed Voyager, sure it was occasionally lame, but THIS IS SCI-FI! It's meant to be lame god-namnit! :)

Re:booo!

[AceM2]

Farscape = SciFi Channel = Does anyone actually watch SciFi Channel anymore outside of maybe.. /. people =P

Re:booo!

[xaaronx]

Futurama was deliberately killed by Fox. An unheard of timeslot (what besides Wheel of Fortune, news and reruns is on at 7?) and regular preempting (enough to have a season's worth left over) killed what started as a promising series. No one I know disliked it and most agree that it was better than The Simpsons (except for maybe seasons 2 through 4). I can only assume that Fox did it because they hate Groening.

Ripping off JMS *again*?

[steveha]

J. Michael Straczynski, creator of Babylon 5, deserves credit for a bunch of creative new ideas... that were lifted for Star Trek.

Babylon 5 had a heavy story arc. Later, Deep Space 9 developed a story arc. Babylon 5 used CGI heavily when Trek was using models. Of course Trek now uses CGI; perhaps that one was inevitable, but they probably adopted it sooner because of the example of Babylon 5.

After Babylon 5, JMS had a short-lived series called Crusade. The ship in Crusade had a limited amount of time to find a cure that would save the lives of all humans on Earth. Now we find out that Enterprise is turning into Crusade -- they will have to go and stop the Xindi super-weapon.

And new hair styles? Given that Babylon 5 was famous for its wild hair styles, I was amazed they were hyping this.

All that said -- I'll try to hope. Stopping a superweapon is closer to "Trek with phasers" than preachy episodes like "Cogenitor". I'd like to see it be fun and exciting, with far less lecturing.

But I'm afraid that next week (the Borg prequel) is going to be the "jump the shark" episode.

steveha

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[Trillan]

I'm a huge DS9 fan, but I find this really tough to swallow.

Babylon 5 had a heavy story arc. Later, Deep Space 9 developed a story arc.

So did TNG. Remember the Klingons? That was spread out over several years.

Babylon 5 used CGI heavily when Trek was using models. Of course Trek now uses CGI; perhaps that one was inevitable, but they probably adopted it sooner because of the example of Babylon 5.

Technology increases at the speed that it is researched.

After Babylon 5, JMS had a short-lived series called Crusade. The ship in Crusade had a limited amount of time to find a cure that would save the lives of all humans on Earth. Now we find out that Enterprise is turning into Crusade -- they will have to go and stop the Xindi super-weapon.

God knows we never saw the "save Earth against next to impossible odds!" plot before Crusade.

And new hair styles? Given that Babylon 5 was famous for its wild hair styles, I was amazed they were hyping this.

I don't really see "them" hyping this, rather reporters and Slashdot. I saw "them" casually mention it. And why shouldn't they?

All that said -- I'll try to hope. Stopping a superweapon is closer to "Trek with phasers" than preachy episodes like "Cogenitor". I'd like to see it be fun and exciting, with far less lecturing.

I still need to consider whether I liked or hated Cogenitor, heh. But not that much different than I, Borg or The Outcast for instance. Although Enterprise took a much darker conclusion.

I really think anyone who views Enterprise as that much worse than TNG is relying on nostalgia, rather than the actually TNG episodes. I find Enterprise the most interesting Star Trek series so far by a wide margin (although comparing anything to the granddaddy of them all is apples to lemons).

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[lunadude]

I had heard that when MJS was going around hollywood trying to sell the idea of B5, one of the places he went to was Paramount. He was told that the only ones doing SF television was Star Trek. Ke went to the ST office and made the pitch. They said "no thanks, we are doing Star Trek", so he left.

Just after Roddenberry died, DS9 was announced. The premise parallels were sooo close to B5. The B5 pilot was produced before DS9's, but aired after.

Coincidence? I think not.

In my opinion, B5's story arc was so refreshing that I have a hard time watching ST's "we've saved the universe again in the last five minutes" plots.

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[sholden]

Babylon 5 used CGI heavily when Trek was using models. Of course Trek now uses CGI; perhaps that one was inevitable, but they probably adopted it sooner because of the example of Babylon 5.

I seriously doubt it. The cost of CGI had been dropping (and continues to do so) relative to using models. CGI was cheaper at that point then using models - for Babylon 5. For Trek CGI was still more expensive, because they already had the models.

If you were starting from scratch CGI was cheaper. If you had already built a bunch of models then models were cheaper. Trek exists solely to make money, as soon as doing CGI was cheap enough to make the change worthwhile they did it.

I guess you could argue that Babylon 5's use of CGI helped bring the price down faster.

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[fadeaway]

Babylon 5 had a heavy story arc. Later, Deep Space 9 developed a story arc. Babylon 5 used CGI heavily when Trek was using models.

This just isn't true. Babylon 5 didn't air until 1994, at which point TNG was was in it's 7th season. TNG was using CGI nearly a decade before Babylon 5's inception. In fact the series pilot, "Encounter at Farpoint", was acclaimed at a milestone in the field of television special effects, and is widely considered to be the show responsible for the CGI breakthrough in television.

Q's giant space-cargo-net might not be very impressive now, but it was CGI, and it was there. ;)

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[steveha]

Remember the Klingons? That was spread out over several years.

No, I don't remember a cohesive story arc involving Klingons. I remember some episodes, spread over several years, that did together show some story progression. But B5 and DS9 had story arcs planned out in advance. B5 even had tremendous amounts of foreshadowing: since he knew what would happen in the future, JMS could put in lots of little signs and portents.

God knows we never saw the "save Earth against next to impossible odds!" plot before Crusade.

Heh. I may be stretching too far, especially given that Crusade has been off the air for years. Still, it's interesting that JMS has had two space SF series, one about a space station and one about saving the Earth, and Trek did DS9 and now this.

I find Enterprise the most interesting Star Trek series so far by a wide margin

You know, every Star Trek series has had great characters; great sets; great props; great special effects... I'd even say "great actors" although I mean "well suited to the show" as opposed to "the most talented of all actors".

All Trek needs for full greatness is great scripts. And we so seldom get them. Having Berman and his crew let go a little, and get more outside scripts, would be a good start.

steveha

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[eloki]

Babylon 5 had a heavy story arc. Later, Deep Space 9 developed a story arc.

I think this is a silly thing to say. Sci-fi shows don't exist in a vacuum independent of other ones. Why are we talking as if no TV show previous to either of these had a story arc? Episodic story arcs are not some fancy invention of B5.

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[OrenWolf]

*blink*.

1. Any Klingon interaction with TNG was done haphazardly. B5 was a show where at least several of the years were designed to pe watched as a big "mega-movie". Less than 20% of the episodes could be considered "non-arc" and having nothing to do with the overall plot. No one has done that before in TV, unless we're suddenly going to call soap opera's "cohesive".

2. B5's contribution to CG is well known - they convinced everyone it was possible to have a CG-based TV show and not go insane in budget. I fully believe this would have happened anyway, but there's no doubt it happened sooner because of it.

3. As for the parallels to Crusade, Crusade was a sci-fi show where a ship, initially designed for one purpose, was instead repurposed to prevent the earth from destruction. The ship was a prototype, and the technologies involved were not fully understood. I can virtually guarantee the retrofitting done to Enterprise to facilitate its' new "mission" will be the same.

4. Hair is hair. But I do believe, more than any other TV show, B5 really tried to have unique aliens. TV Budgets notwithstanding, the Narn, Minbari, Vorlons and Shadows were certianly distinct.

Re:Ripping off JMS *again*?

[Trillan]

No, I don't remember a cohesive story arc involving Klingons. I remember some episodes, spread over several years, that did together show some story progression. But B5 and DS9 had story arcs planned out in advance. B5 even had tremendous amounts of foreshadowing: since he knew what would happen in the future, JMS could put in lots of little signs and portents.

There were a good dozen episodes in the arc as I recall, spread out over three or four years. Perhaps more. No, it wasn't an arc like Babylon 5's arc... but it was still there.

Heh. I may be stretching too far, especially given that Crusade has been off the air for years. Still, it's interesting that JMS has had two space SF series, one about a space station and one about saving the Earth, and Trek did DS9 and now this.

I agree: "interesting." I just wouldn't put anything else behind it.

Short-term, long-term stories

[c0d3h4x0r]

Actually, Babylon 5 died because it didn't have ANY modularity to the episodes. As a complete stranger to the show, it was impossible for me to watch a single episode and make much (if any) sense of it.

Star Trek (in all its forms) has always succeeded commercially because it has some aspects of over-arching story and theme, but each individual episode is a nice encapsulated story. A newcomer can generally come to an episode and make some sense of what's happening and enjoy the story.

Note that DS9 was the furthest removed from this, especially when they got toward the last season with the ongoing Dominion war, etc. DS9 was ambitious, as was Babylon 5. They would be excellent material for release as a complete DVD collection, where someone can watch the entire series in sequence at their own convenience.

When you think about other shows that have gained popularity and commercial success over the years, you start to realize they have the same good balance between over-arching story and individual episode story. Look at the original Transformers cartoon series, or The Simpsons, or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Heck, dare I say it, even Friends. They all had self-contained episodes which were also part of an over-arching story (however simplistic) that kept people coming back (with whatever level of frequency) to watch more episodes. But if individual episodes lack neat form, then it doesn't matter how cool the over-arching story is, because viewers who miss a few episodes will feel hopelessly lost. And if there's no over-arching story, a viewer won't feel as motivated to "check back in" on the show after missing a few episodes as they would feel if there were an over-arching story.

Now that things like Tivo are gaining popularity, and simulating many aspects of an "on-demand" model where viewers don't have to worry so much about missing out on episodes, it's possible that shows with a balance swung more heavily toward long-term story may succeed where they couldn't have before. But that will be a slow and gradual transition if it happens at all.

Re:Short-term, long-term stories

[OrenWolf]

Babylon 5 didn't die, It ended.

It had always been inteded for it to be a 5 year story.

Re:Short-term, long-term stories

[Khomar]

You miss my point, actually. I know that Babylon 5 was planned to end at season 5, but what TNT did to it to make it more "attractive" actually hurt the fifth season badly (for example, the sex scene with Byron and Lyta Alexander). If it were not for the few good episodes of season five (almost entirely based around the Londo/G'kar (sp?) sub-plot), the season would have been a total waste. It was a great letdown from the previous seasons. They did not kill Babylon 5 per se (it was supposed to end), but in my mind, they killed it prematurely in the midst of season 5. Maybe it would have been better to just wrap it up at the end of season 4.

Then, of course, Crusade died in favor of WWF. *sigh*

Re:Short-term, long-term stories

[OrenWolf]

while this is true to a point, a big part of what happened with season 5 was not the result of TNT directly, but of the uncertainties surrounding if there would *be* a season 5.

JMS always indicated the events of the end of season 4 were supposed to take place in the first half of season 5. That compression left a lot of space for "non-arc" episodes. Which made the fifth season much worse.

As to TNT's involvement, I know they played a critical role in the destruction of Crusade (JMS walked away because they wanted him to "sex up" the show).

Season 5 felt anticlimactic to me, at least for the first half, as well. But I don't think anything but a firm comittment on the existence of season 5 could have changed that.

Weapons upgrades

[steveha]

I hope they will install some cool fighters, and a huge Wave Motion Gun.

And there should be a countdown at the end of each episode: 43 days remain until Earth is destroyed!!

steveha

Re:Weapons upgrades

[wing03]

An even better trek story!

http://www.greatyamato.com/ultimateyamato/nccvsyam .txt

Without major changes trek is dead.

[monopole]

I've been a die hard trekkie for the past 30+ years.

I'd seen every episode of the TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager (untill the second season ending which sucked so badly, I gave up until 7of9)

I simply can't watch Enterprise, it sucks so bad.

Trek has always been a sci-fi procedural (in the same manner as Law & Order and CSI are police procedural). Consistency and continuity are essential to maintaining the Trek Franchise. Once B&B started to kick the continuity blocks out from under Trek the shows have sucked badly. The onset of this suckage has been slow and each show has been compared to the previous show, so the enormity of the suckage is not as obvious.

This was brought home to me by two things in the past week. The first is that I watched the entire "Irresponsible Capt. Tylor" anime series (www.tylor.com). Forget humor, the drama in the series blew away the past 3 trek series. I really cared about the crew and couldn't anticipate what they would do next. Second, I read Charles Stross' most recent nerdcore fiction 'Router' (http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0303/router.shtml). Trek has always been at best a rehash of half century old golden age SF, with the most recent series having precious little of that, but stuff like "Router" makes it look like the original Flash Gordon serials with sparkler exhausts. If someone can work out a formula for making good TV out of this stuff 'Enterprise' will look like 'Hooterville Junction'.

New hairdos, huh?

[sharkey]

Are they going to address the origins of the beehive as the regulation Starfleet hairstyle?

"Wow, great idea chief! Here's my idea: Velour!"

Please god: What should really happen.

[raehl]

At the end of the Episode, Archer should turn and look at the camera and say:

"We're taking a Mulligan. Those last two seasons? Forget that ever happened. We'll start over next season."

Good Enemies=Good Trek

[Anonymous Coward]

The parallel you draw isn't too convincing (both the "pre-emptive" strikes you mention are actually responses to prior attacks, making GWII comparisons pretty tendentious.

However your remark points to an interesting fact, and to a significant reason that we can't be too encouraged by Berman's remarks.

Trek's interest has always depended more on the nature of its bad guys, than on the personalities of its "main characters."

The Borg, the Cardassians, and even the Ferengi and the Bjorans are clearly permutations of contemporary culture. That's not just ok, but has been part of what sometimes make Trek worth watching (btw, so far, it's been the Machiee (sp?) who have provided ST with a way of discussing the not always so clear terrorist/freedom fighter distinction...).

There'd be nothing wrong, really, with having a species and/or plot line that relates to contemporary politics, as long as this discussion is persued in a way that is courageous, thoughtful and somehow new.

Sadly, I see *no* evidence that the Xindi will be either pc doctrinaire versions of Arab Fundamentalists, or interesting variations on that theme. In fact, from the intro we here, it sounds like just another bunch of Big Scary Aliens, that need to be fought.

Whether this series will be good or not will depend on how rich and interesting this species is, and how useful this species proves to be in raising and dealing with complex and new questions of some kind, whether they relate to just war doctrine, or fundamentalism, or whatever.

But, from what we've seen so far, we may just have a big alien show-down, since Berman seems more preoccupied with hair gel, than on the specific nature and feeling of the larger conflict he attempts to imagine.

Re:Did anyone actually *watch* last night's episod

[lbonser]

This episode was just a rip-off of the TNG episode where Riker got the hots for the "person" (although clearly played as a female) from the non-gendered race. He tried to interfere and Picard didn't even reprimand him... at least Trip got a "stern talking to".

Bring in Warren Ellis

[monopole]

1. Bring in Warren Ellis (transmetropolitan etc.)
2. Remove B&B and get Warren Ellis to determine their fate.
3. Implement #2 on pay per view.
4. ???
5. Profit!

There won't be much left of the crew, or the galaxy for that matter, after the end of the next season but it will be a hell of a ride. And he will make the first officer a lesbian, albeit an ultraviolent junkie nanotech foglet lesbian.

cat suits and new hairdo's, eh?

[Fishstick]

Thanks for the warning, guys...

Furthermore, the dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside)." Furthermore, even Jolene Blalock's 'T'Pol', as a result of resigning from the Vulcan High Command, "will sport a new cat suit and hairdo next season."

Man, I'm glad they're giving us this information -- will save me a hell of a lot of anguish if I just stop watching now.

Just what they need to really kick it up a notch, eh? A region of space that inexplicably turns you inside-out, and a vulcan chick makeover. I mean, that's really compelling shit, ain't it!!??

So?

[Icehouseman]

You think that stuff will change anything? Enterprise will still suck. Last night I had the choice of either watching new (taped) Enterprise episode or (taped) Babylon 5 episode I've seen on DVD. I went with B5. It sucks enough that I've quit watching it. The quality of Star Trek has fallen so far so fast I can't believe they have enough fans to watch Enterprise. I've seen more support for Farscape than for Enterprise.

If Paramount came out next year and said they were canceling Enterprise, I wouldn't care in the least and I know a lot of other people who wouldn't care either. When Farscape, Firefly and Futurama were canceled, I heard lots of noise about them. For Enterprise, I bet most would say: "That shows still on the air?"

Re:More Fundamental Problems: Borgs Will Not Help

[Carnivorous Carrot]

> Lastly, replace the communications officer with
> a rugged man or woman. Linda park looks too
> gorgeous and too frail to be going into outer
> space on scare missions

Eat shit and die, ass. She's the only good thing on the entire show. Mod me down if you like, but I stand up for what's right. You must be a chick because no male would ever suggest such a thing.

Little known Start Trek show

[utahjazz]

There's actually another Trek show on Wednesday nights on NBC. It has the same timeline as Star Trek, but it takes place in the early 21st century, and focuses on the leader of one of Earth's countries.

The problem is, the writers are very constrained by being set before the other shows. You know the Vulcans aren't going to show up for a while, and you know the Earth isn't going to be completely destroyed by antything.

So like, when the Captain (they call him 'The President') is on the phone with some other Captain, it's supposed to be really dramatic, but you know nothing really big can happen.

What "Enterprise" should have been.

[drdink]

In Star Trek: The Next Generation's All Good Things finale, Q plots out where Star Trek should have gone in future series after TNG:

"Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. THAT is the exploration that awaits you: not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence."

If the people who made Star Trek could have pulled it off, what Q proposes could have been an amazingly cool show. For anybody who enjoyed Q, this would have brought a whole new spin to Star Trek and a new reason to tune in and watch. All that woudl be required is to think extremely far out of the box.

Re:What "Enterprise" should have been.

[mumkin]

drdink, I could not agree with you more.

What they should do...

[Anonymous Coward]

fire the writers, hire farscape's writers, bring in the jim henson workshop, fire old actors, bring in farscape actors, and set the thing on moya.....

farscape was 100x better... but this show gets more chances to bring up ratings...

Re:More Fundamental Problems: Borgs Will Not Help

[MSTCrow5429]

You do make a few good points. Ford would be much better than Bakula, and would finally bring "Star Trek" and "Star Wars" together in a way. A female Vulcan with huge tits is a bit odd to have as a science officer (maybe they could have a male with a large package?). The African-American does annoy the hell out of me, if only because he has that dopey smile and "aw-shucks" attitude that drives me up the wall. Can't detect a trace of Eubonics though, which is more of a deviant dialect than accent.

It's an evil conspiracy

[Lead Butthead]

By continuously producing trash, we are forced to part with our hard earn dollars for TNG on DVD, just to get better trek fix...

Use this storyline instead!

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone invents the photon torpedo, goes back in time, and fires it at B&B.

Then "Enterprise" gets turned over to some competent SciFi writers - maybe those that worked on StarGate SG-1 - and they STOP THE INSIPID, BORING, SELF-RIGHTEOUS, REPETITIVE, POINTLESS storylines.

US TV hazardous to the not-male-or-female

[Kyril]

"Cogenitor" was disappointing, actually, I couldn't watch much of it. Maybe I missed what was worth watching about the side plots (Archer and that other captain playing around in the sun and the other two going "look at our cool stuff"), but the part with the "Cogenitor" was just like that Next Generation episode with the one who felt female after being around Riker, except only her femininity was persecuted, not her very personhood. Riker and Tripp both tried to interfere, to the same lack of result.

Prime time fictional TV in the U.S. is a really bad place for the differently sexed and-or gendered, from what I've seen. One episode of Ally McBeal, the trans-something (I forget the specifics) was killed at the end of the show. The other night on A&E(?) a Law and Order rerun had a pre-op male-to-female transsexual who was sentenced to 20 years in prison, then gang-raped shortly after arrival at Rikers. The aforementioned episode of Pepsi Trek had the alien who felt female brainwashed back to their society's norms. Wednesday night's third-sex alien commits suicide.

To be fair, another transsexual on Ally McBeal did okay for herself, and that short-lived Supreme Court show had a transsexual lawyer argue for asylum for an alleged transsexual who was, as it turned out, only a transvestite. But that's still four very bad outcomes out of six...

Stay out of caves

[warb]

I just hope it's not another "cave" ep. Jezz this
is suppose to be in Space!

New name!

[Sebastard]

They should also rename the show "Starfleet Troopers"..

Aliens destroy part of the earth, humans race off after them..

Bring in Michael Ironside and we're in business!

Slipping?! WTF?

[Scumbag Tracker]

> I've felt like the show has been slipping all season, so here's hoping.

I've heard more than a few people say things like that. Have you seen this week's "Cogenitor"? In my opinion, it was worthy of an emmy! Dawn, Judgement, and The Crossing were also all very interesting and original (save for scenes in Judgement being on the same penal moon that ST:6 was in). I've found Enterprise the best Trek of all of them, and this season is MUCH better than the first one was.

I know, opinions are like assholes, but what the fuck do you people WANT from Trek if you truly feel that this season is "slipping"?

Star trek first

[peragrin]

Every one is forgetting something. The Romulans. There has yet to be the all out war between the Romulans and the federation. That was supposed to happen nearly a hundered years before Kirk. They have already introduced the romulans, I say war is brewing and Romulans have weapons of mass descruction. oops wrong time

Yamato NX-01?

[vaylen]

Now guess which show this is....

Earth is hit by a weapon from an alien world that is bent on the destruction of our little blue marble. Before they have a chance to finish us off, we earthlings send out our best ship to the alien homeworld on a mission to stop them from killing our planet.

If you don't know whether this is the plotline for Enterprise's next season or the first seaon of Star Blazers (Space Battleship Yamato) you aren't alone.

I didn't hear where Berman talked about Captain Archer getting the Cosmic DNA from the Borg Queen on Xindi's neighboring planet Iscandar and bringing it back to Earth before it's too late, but I'm sure he went over it when I was watching the awesome Babylon5 DVDs.

Get rid of humanoid aliens!

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't the first time for non-humanoid aliens (species 8472, arguably changelings) anyway. Besides, who needs human actors when computerized ones look 'realistic' enough, and cutting down cost of actors (and none once getting enough voice sample for text to speech engines)? The use of humanoid alien is only for compensating the primitive technology in Rottenberry's time, and it is getting stupider every day.

Erasing the future?

[benwaggoner]

So, basically a series-long "Yesterday's Enterprise?"

Or, perhaps, they're busily erasing the history of the past shows, to leave everything wide open? I've felt that the temporal cold war was in some way a result of the events in the 24th century and later.

So, I guess the question is what's happening in Enterprise the cause or the result of the past series. If it's the result, who the heck knows what's going to going to happen, and we can stop worrying about continuity.

Save Star Trek!

[quantaman]

The "Oust Rick Berman from Star Trek!" Petition

Put down that "crack coctail" for a second

[jabber01]

Is there a counter-example you would like to share with the rest of the class?

Google: "Babylon 5 is better than Star Trek" 22 hits.
Google: "Star Trek is better than Babylon 5" 6 hits.

The Oracle has spoken!

Re:Put down that "crack coctail" for a second

[UberOogie]

Google: "Your mom sucks my cock" 13 hits.
Google: "My mom sucks your cock" 1 hit.

My god! It does know everything!

Re:Put down that "crack coctail" for a second

[jabber01]

Yes, ad hominem really makes your point.

Re:Put down that "crack coctail" for a second

[UberOogie]

My point, which arched gracefully over your head, was merely that you could prove anything with a Google search and that it wasn't a good point on which to base an argument.

Re:Put down that "crack coctail" for a second

[jabber01]

And the argument still remains unbased. Where is the counter-example to the original hypothesis that you found so laughable?

Forehead mods and smoothness

[Sabalon]

Hows that for a subject.

My first main beef is that nigh every alien species is just a human with a funny forehead or nose...no creativity.

My second beef is just about every alien world (cheap sets) is a semi-desert planet with what look like mud huts with technology dried into the walls, or some leftover hippie commune looking place. Can't they find a city like NYC or something on some Class M?

That aside, since this is star trek afterall, my main problem with Enterprise is how smoothly the ship seems to run. Basically our first big ship and it has less problems than the Red Dwarf.

The Reset Button

[shade1475]

So I see this whole thing violating continuity even more (big war before the big Romulan War that should be coming up soon? come on...) but it's not going to matter.
I'm starting to wonder if the whole "Temporal Cold War" thing is just going to be a really convenient Trek Reset Button when they wind the series down/do anything substantial. Aliens from the future, Warship Enterprise, lotsa death, destruction, and mayhem--and then whoops! It was all an alternate timeline that was never supposed to happen, so the 29th century time guys put it all straight by the end of the season, if not the episode.
Enterprise is fine for dumb fun, but it could be sooo much better. I wish it was.

Jumping the shark

[jabber01]

Enterprise jumped the shark with the first instance of time travel. I mean, come on, there's not tribble one in sight, and they're already helping to preserve the "temporal prime directive"?

Methinks Berman is actually some State University student's attempt at passing the Turing test. Trek, as it stands, could be written by a few hundred lines of Perl.

As a franchise, Trek jumped the shark in the first season of Voyager. "Get that cheese to sick-bay!" was prophecy. Even back then the writers knew the show's plot was in need of intensive care.

Re:Jumping the shark

[dkh]

Actually... their funky doc was feeding a tribble to one of his pets recently...

Yep I watched it

[PortWineBoy]

1) I don't know how many suicides there have been on ST, but this one struck me as powerful. Honestly though, how much cogenitor character development do you want in a 50 minute show? Obvious? I don't know. My feeling was that an obvious Berman ST ending would have been that she lived.

2) Point taken, but does he interfere with cultures or individuals, and does it really matter?

3) Character development. Did Reed sleep with her? or did his icey character seep through and make him back off. I think that was the point.

4) No reprimand? Bakula was Cap'n Hardass last night. Tripp was devastated by the simple dismissal. Tripp worships Archer, considers his friendship with the Cap'n to be one of the greatest parts of his life. Somehow I think that this is much more powerful a statement than rank demotion.

I was impressed by last nights episode. Haven't enjoyed a trek so much since the last few seasons of DS9.

Conservative mindset

[Anonymous Coward]

I love reading all the posts decrying Star Trek's "PC Liberal Values". Maybe Fox should come out with a new version where the Enterprise just blasts everyone to hell for those who like their entertainment Fair and Balanced.

OT: Slashdotted

[DarthWiggle]

Bah, you're ignoring the insatiable need to be witty and deprecating on Slashdot. You might call it the, ahem, Prime Directive. :)

But, you're right... I didn't check... I didn't RTFT (Read the effing timestamp).

Pizzle.

Re:OT: Slashdotted

[MSTCrow5429]

Sorry, just on edge from all the nasty people who flame and then mod posts down as flamebait, ironically. Whenever I'm witty, some jerk mods it down anyways. Well, in the past couple of weeks anyways.

Romulan Wars

[Unixinvid]

I would like to see Enterprise go to war with the Romulans since they need to talk about the Romulan wars and how pre-federation forces kicked Romulan ass. That would be great to see also the weapons that they use are Atomic weapons.

Re:Where the FUCK are the KDE3 debs???

[Anonymous Coward]

Like you'd know what to do with them, when they got there.

dumbass aliens

[bermansucks]

"We find out that the Xindi space probe was merely a test and that they are creating an even more powerful weapon," Berman says. "It's up to Captain Archer to go there and stop them from destroying us altogether."

Hmmm, the thought process of the aliens must have been something like this:

Why not wait until the "even more powerful" is built and then destroy the whole planet right away ... but NO!!! We just have to first launch a smaller weapon and give them a warning so that those fucking Humans can send fucking Archer to save the fucking planet and so that we get to see T'Pol with her huge Vulcan gazonkers in an even tighter cat-suit and a new hair-do!!!!

GET BETTER WRITERS!!!! Star Trek is supposed to celebrate humanity. How can you celebrate humanity by insulting our intelligence?

I hope the ratings fall further so that Paramount will fire the assholes responsible for this crap (Berman and Braga).

Sorry for the profanity.

Lieutenant Uhura

[Anonymous Coward]

The original poster is probably referring to the ghetto accent that the African-American on "Enterprise" has. This accent is characteristic of the majority of African-Americans due to their low level of education and to their refusal to join mainstream Western society.

Note that Lieutenant Uhura has no ghetto accent.

It shocks and saddens me that the director of "Enterprise" could not find even 1 African-American without a ghetto accent to be a member of the "Enterprise" cast. Why, in the 23rd century, are there still ghettos?

Attn: Berman. Free idea!

[X86Daddy]

I thought of this idea for a new Star Trek show, back when rumors were flying about the next series after Voyager. I'm giving it away for free. If you need help writing it, contact me. :-)

Make a show about the origin of the Borg. Make it start with a glorious, peace-bringing 'net upgrade. Or an addictive entertainment paradigm. Have factions bending its use... There are endless possibilities, other than the fact that we know one of the end results is the "evil" Borg encountered later by Earth Humans. It could be an interesting, unique show, bound only by the physics established in the Trek universe, and riding on the established brand. But it would be *NEW* and *INTERESTING* if done right. They could address issues that we don't have yet, and explore morality without making goofy, over-blatant comments on current situations... (i.e. explore both the good and bad that comes with a universal lack of privacy)

Oh, and one of the popular rumors during Voyager for a next show was young people at StarFleet Academy. Blech!!! If nothing else can be thought of, the Borg are better money makers.

One problem.

[Pyrion]

The Federation has yet to exist in this series.

Berman's Enterprise solution...

[Anonymous Coward]

...ought to include RedShirt ver 1.1

Progress!

[fm6]

...the Federation has instituted daylight savings and the relevant subspace message got thrown away along with the usual spam messages by the captain.

Finally! A Trek script people can relate to!

Enterprise is good

[Zuperdominican]

Enterprise is not a bad show. If this were the first star trek series it would be an absolute hit. The problem with enterprise is that is so different from all the other series that we've become aprehensive. It's almost as if we want to dictate what we want to see based on what we are used to seeing. I like the show and will continue to watch it regardless of what any of you geeks say.

Pussifying the Borg

[CleverNickName]

Even if this ep bombs, there's still some potential here. (Note: I'll never forgive Voyager for pussifying the Borg.)


Dude, Voyager didn't pussify the Borg -- Next Gen did it.

Remember when we first saw them, and they were all bad ass? They were adjusting their shields for different phaser frequencies and stuff?

Then there was that whole Locutus thing . . . man, that sucked for us.

But through it all, the Borg were kicking ass, and not even bothering to take names . . . until some last-season Next Gen episode (forgive me or not knowing the title) where all it took to kill a Borg was popping the little tube out of its face.

What?!

From certain death for all humans, to falling down in a spray of liquid nitrogen just like that?

Worst. Screwing up of a cool bad guy. EVER.

Re:Pussifying the Borg

[The Night Watchman]

Worst. Screwing up of a cool bad guy. EVER.

While I definitely have to agree with you on that, I have to add that the Klingons are a very close second in this regard. Remember in ST3, featuring Klingon Commander Jim Ignatowski? He kicked ass!! If I may cite the following examples of his badass-itude.

1) Blowing up his girlfriend's ship because she happened to see the Genesis information
2) Wrestling with and killing that giant worm-constrictor thing that was wrapping itself around his neck, and then throwing its carcass aside as though that happened to him all the time
3) "Kill one of them... I don't care which."

They were portrayed as a society that believed in honor and courage, and in the movies you *believed* that. They could be taken seriously. TNG turned the Klingons into a caricature of themselves. I just couldn't accept them, it was like they were playing pretend or something. All they did was talk the talk, strut around and occasionally fight each other, but nothing truly bastardly; nothing in the spirit of the movies.

Now ST6... General Chang with a thick metal eyepatch bolted to his skull. THAT was badass.

---

Re:Pussifying the Borg

[YetAnotherAnonymousC]

Agree with you. But also keep in mind that this can be explained away by the Klingon's exposure to peace with the Federation between TOS and TNG. Not that it makes up for the Klingons becoming less fun...

Re:Pussifying the Borg

[Wolfrider]

> 2) Wrestling with and killing that giant worm-constrictor thing that was wrapping itself around his neck, and then throwing its carcass aside as though that happened to him all the time

--IIRC, in the book version it was even better - right after that, he gets a call from the ship (or he might have called the ship) and says "There's nothing happening down here." The crewmembers with him look at him with some new respect.

Re:Please god,-Just kidding.

[Anonymous Coward]

"One is Borgified Q (This should eliminate any residual continuity or logic)"

You may laugh? But that would be a nice teaser for an upcoming episode. Kind of like the Locutus episode. And something like that would be Q's style.

Now I see the problem

[K-Man]

Furthermore, the dangerous Delphic Expanse, likened to the Bermuda Triangle, causes those who enter to "become anatomically inverted (skin on the inside, organs on the outside)"

Rick Berman has obviously never seen a grown man naked. Or maybe he has, and that's the point.

Inspirational Encouragment for Enterprise

[Entropop]

To be sung by a nerd in front of a computer out of range of his cracking voice. 'Cuz they've got faith of the heart They're goin' where their heart will take them They've got faith to believe They can do anything They've got strength of the soul And no one's gonna bend or break Them They can reach any star They've got faith Faith of the heart yeah yeah yeah, Star Trek and Al from Quantum Leap, yeah yeah yeah

Re:And what has the recurring theme been?

[Lord Bitman]

From the sphere? Not going to say that's out of the question, but there's no need for it whatsoever. Enterprise has had enough time travel to make anyone groan.
As for "Budget and makeup techniques", that much is obvious, but not at all what I was talking about. Look at the way people were assimilated in TNG vs how it happened in Voyager and First Contact. In Voyager they made it clear that the nanotech was a recent technology. Maybe you're just too knowledgeable about Star Trek technology and it's obscuring your logic gland.

BORG!?!

[clambake]

So, um... ok, so.. Damn, I just can't understadn it. If you are going to just go ahead and write borg into teh show, why not do teh same with Khan, or even Kirk. I'm sure there could be some time paralell universe warp that causes Kirk to age and then appear in the enterprise for a few episodes... Sure, why not?

Re:BORG!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure there could be some time paralell universe warp

You sure you didn't mean "tehre"?

Jar-Jar better than holodeck

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, I hate to be contrary, I'm really not trying to start an argument, but...

I'd MUCH rather see Jar-Jar than another mindless, moronic, never-to-be-cursed enough freaking damn holodeck story.

You know the Trek first I'd like to see? I'd like to see the writers of the holodeck episodes lined up and beaten with a rubber hose.

original?

[tero]

Superduper alien weapon threatening the Earth and the existance of mankind? All new hairdos and plastic noses? Ooh.
Maybe this is new to Trek, but haven't we all seen and heard this before? About dozen times?
At least B5 and JMS did with style, somehow I have a feeling that B&B will turn this into mainstreamed, preprocessed junk that Voyager was (and the current Enterprise episodes have been).
How about a real first frontier sci-fi series? Wagons, cattle, gunsliging captains and a interesting story? Oh that's right, you took the sky from me... damn Fox.

Bring Back Farscape...

[XnetZERO]

...the last season was well, its last... but that show had balls. Big Cajones.

Actually, that kind of makes sense...

[clambake]

You know, if you think about all the numbskulls on TNG that got assimilated, it only makes sense that their addition would have a negative impact on the collective... er, present company excluded?

Timeline shouldn't limit things

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, the timeline of Enterprise should not limit things. Yes, we're all familiar with the "future" races. So what, introduce new ones.

I think the difference between the writing in the original Star Trek and the writing in Enterprise is neatly summed up in this:

Where Star Trek introduced us to the Klingons, Enterprise introduced us to the Sulabon.

Slay Berman, give me his mantle.

[Anonymous Coward]

And I will deliver unto you the last saving grace of the Star Trek universe.

Klingons.

A show about Klingons. All about the Klingons. You honorless dogs! We grow tired of your Federation preaching! Pah!

I shall kill you all where you stand!

Patr�n A�ejo

[rice_burners_suck]

I really liked the Original Series. Then, the Next Generation came along and turned out to be a pretty awesome series, too. Then, there was an enormous marketing blitz about the next great thing, Deep Space Nine. Well, DS9 SUCKED in my opinion. The entire series was just a drawn out docudrama about political problems with the Cardasians... if I wanted politics, I would watch the news! So then, they announced Voyager, but that was just an endless show about how their ship breaks down a million times on their way home from 70 light years away. Then, a few years went by without too much damage to the Star Trek name. On the contrary, the movies released during this time were pretty cool. Finally, they announce Enterprise. When this happened, I knew it was gonna suck but I watched the first episode just to give 'em a chance... and it sucked.

CONCLUSION: I will purchase a DVD player when all of the following conditions have been fulfilled:

• The original Mission Impossible series is released on DVD.
• The "New" Mission Impossible series is released on DVD.
• The entire Original Series of Star Trek is released on DVD.
• The entire Next Generation series of Star Trek is released on DVD.
• The DMCA is revoked as illegal and as such all content scrambling and/or other technologies that prevent access to information for such illegitimate reasons are illegalized.

But until then, I'll just chill here with my Negra Modelo in one hand and my Patrón Añejo in the other. C2 H5 OH. Because denial is a big river in Africa.

for the love of god, who are you people?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

maaaaaah

Stand-Alone? Oh dear.

[Joel Rowbottom]

"What we are about to do is a first for STAR TREK," Berman tells TVG. "In the past, our captains have had the general mission to explore outer space and, in the case of Voyager, a mission to find a way back home. But there has never been a Trek series built around a specific mission and specific stakes-in this case, the very future of mankind."

Ahh, right, so the DS9 Delta Quadrant stuff never happened. Mm.

This sounds *well* sucky, and goes on to fulfil a pet hate of mine which is that episodes will no longer be 'stand-alone'. Which is a pity.

Re:Stand-Alone? Oh dear.

[Knara]

Yeah, we don't want to have story arcs that require viewers to pay attention to a plot for longer than 30-odd minutes at a time.

Nope, can't have that. Must keep our TV in bite-sized, easy-to-swallow, Full House-like capsules!

Re:Stand-Alone? Oh dear.

[Smoovious]

This sounds *well* sucky, and goes on to fulfil a pet hate of mine which is that episodes will no longer be 'stand-alone'. Which is a pity.

Woah... a pity? Are you serious?

The best episodes in the entire ST franchise have been ones where they took the time over several episodes to tell the story properly.

I get so sick of watching what is starting out to be a good story, only near the end of the episode getting the feeling that the story teller, upon reaching somewhere in the middle of the tale, decides to skip to the end.

Oh, and it was mentioned in a few places about how ship captains in Kirk's time were of a different breed, and that in 'modern' SF days they most likely would have been kicked out of the service. If I remember right, the term used was swashbuckling.

So then, why does Enterprise feel like the same breed of people that TNG, DS9, and VOY are?

Where is the 'swashbuckling'? Where is the boldness has been refered too back in Kirk's day?

Granted, this is a pre-Kirk era, but still, you would expect much of the same, well, recklessness you would have found in TOS...

Oh... and lets put the femmes back into skirts again. :)

-- Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum, cogito

a new direction?

[maxpublic]

Anything that comes out of the mouth of Rick "everything I touch turns to shit" Berman should be taken in the worst possible context. That is, when he says that this embarrassingly shameful series is 'taking a new direction', read this as 'we're going to make it even worse than it already is, if you can believe it'.

It's amazing that series as fucked up as Enterprise - which should never have seen the light of day - can continue no matter how bad they are, while something as interesting as Firefly is shut down after one season. You have to wonder, given Berman's record of fucking up everything he puts his hands on, just what sort of blackmail material he has to keep his projects alive.

Max

That's why I call it BOOBYPRISE.

[dnahelix]

...and DS9 was never even close to 'really damn good'

mmm...where have I seen this before, I wonder ?

[master_p]

a mysterious probe from space will blast a swath of destruction across North and Central America, causing epic explosions and annihilating everything between Florida and Venezuela," according to the article. "As viewers will learn, this is a preemptive strike by an alien race known as the Xindi (that's Zin-dee)

Well, at last Star Trek catches up with Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers. There was no other way to go for the show to keep it going. As a reminder, the 1st season of SBY has the following story:

In the year 2199, Earth is under attack by the mysterious planet Gamilon. Planet bombs destroy all of Earth's surface, forcing people to live underground. Radiation from the bombs is everywhere, and life on Earth has one more year left. All Earth space fleets are destroyed. A mysterious message arrives from Iscandar, probing Earth people to travel 248,000 light years across space to get the Cosmo DNA machine which will remove the radioactivity and restore the planet in its former state. Since Earth has no other spaceships, they retrofit the Yamato for space travel, fitting the wave motion engine (blueprints of it were sent along with the message) so they can warp through space, and also converting it to the wave motion gun which blasts a huge planet-destroying beam but leaves the ship helpless for a few minutes.

I keep mentioning Space Battleship Yamato here in Slashdot for younger people to learn that the wonderous things they see today or tomorrow have been established 30 years ago. Many anime cliches (for example, the hero, his best friend and rival, his girlfriend, the wise but sick captain, the cyborg mechanic, the megalomaniac alien emperor bent on destroying Earth) have been introduced en mass in SBY. There is a rumour that George Lucas was heavily inspired by it during his early trip in Japan before he wrote Star Wars.

As you can see from the above text, the few lines of the SBY scenario already sound more interesting than the new Enterprise. There is no other way to go for Star Trek in my opinion, cause they have played almost every card, except the "alien invasion" plot. Now it's time for the real Star Trek: huge battles and an epic race to save Earth from destruction.

By the way, if SBY sounds similar to the plot in Babylon 5's Crusade, it's because it is. They have stolen heavily from Yamato.

Finally, they could throw some bits of Robotech in the Enterprise, huge robots transforming, you know the stuff. Whatever they do, I bet there's gonna be more interesting than ever.

Re:mmm...where have I seen this before, I wonder ?

[juhaz]

Well, from that short description, it doesn't sound THAT similar to Crusade.

Just about only common things seem to be "limited time to find salvation" and powerful weapon that leaves the ship disabled (and Excaliburs is nowhere near powerful enough to destroy a planet), and neither was probably original even in 1974.

Here is a radical new idea:

[Snaller]

Try some intelligent scripts!

Berman, if you need help drop me an email!

Short and simple solution...

[1eyedhive]

...for the B&B problem: fire them. bring back Ira Behr, Robert Wolfe and Ron Moore have Moore, wolfe and behr write the scripts Moore == DS9's in the Pale Moonlight (aka Trek's best...episode...ever) == Problem solved.

Re:More Fundamental Problems: Borgs Will Not Help

[Gropo]

I agree somewhat about Bakula's acting. T'Pol on the other hand makes more sense to the show.

Consider for a moment that a Vulcan female who is attractive by Human standards might be somewhat of an outcast amongst Vulcan society... Hence the High Command assignment? Now if only Jolene Blalock could actually act Vulcan

Ensign Mayweather quite possibly speaks that way because he grew up on a transport vessel surrounded by his blacksploitation-nostalgic family and crew (you know, like the rennaisance geeks of our era?)

Lastly, if you try and take my Ensign Sato away I'll jump through this internet and slap you up like a bitch!

ORIGINAL?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh come ON. Doctor Who's Cybermen came long before the BORG. The Borg have a frightening amount in common with the old Cybermen, right down to the "resistance is futile/assimilation" line.

"You will be like us!" (Tomb of the Cybermen)

crossover?

[billnapier]

Do I smell a Farscape crossover?

THE BORG

[Anonymous Coward]

"But there has never been a Trek series built around a specific mission and specific stakes-in this case, the very future of mankind."

Um, STNG Season cliffhanger 2 and Season 3? The BORG, people? Rick Berman's imagination, as well as his memory, is gone.

So now they don't have to be thrown into the...

[TheConfusedOne]

...Delta Quadrant to try and get away from all things Trek?

So now, riddle me this. If they're feeling so hampered by the Trek universe then WHY CAST THE SHOW IN THAT UNIVERSE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?

We know the answer is name recognition, but how damn cheap can you get? I can see the original pitch meeting:

Well, you see we'll use the name of the ship and Starfleet, but there won't be a Federation and there won't be a Prime Directive (cause those are too darn limiting). Oh, but we will introduce them to time travel, cloaking, and replicators...But we have to keep their technology primitive so that it's not "name your ray from the deflector dish" saves the day episodes all the time.

Accept it will be, it will just have to be someone else's deflector dish (or cloaking field) that does the heavy lifting.

Pure hogwash. If they didn't want to deal with the problems of the Trek universe than they damn well should have been honest about it from the get go.

Nerds! all of you!

[Mr.Dippy]

God my nerdar is going through the roof. Bitching about Star Trek on Slashdot; No hot women for you! Wait, I'm posting a comment on a Star Trek thread on slashdot. Oh shit, I'm a nerd too. Damn you Khan!!!!!!!

Call in the Klingons!!!

[TheConfusedOne]

Finally a use for all of those cheesy Batleth immitations that you see people carrying around at the cons. :-D

Alternate Borg Plot

[mechanos]

Looking at pics of the upcoming episode I find it hard to believe ancient Borg would look pretty much the same as the ones in TNG (unless these are survivors from the Borg orb ship blown up in First Contact...). I'd prefer to see pre-collective Borg. How about this for a plot instead?
The crew comes in contact with a vessel of colonists heading out towards the outer reaches of the Alpha Quadrant. Onboard (along with regular colonists) are a small group of scientists experimenting with cybernetic implants and are obsessed with the idea of using them for telepathic communication and something called a "group mind" in order to acheive what the scientists consider a state of perfection (sound familiar?). Some scientists have already begun putting implants in themselves... Naturally Archer & co is repulsed by this and they go their seperate way from the colonists. The scientists on the colonist ship kidnap T'Pol thinking they can torture her into handing over some info on Vulcan technology in order to further their research. Archer & crew give chase, get T'Pol back, and the colonists ship is sucked (at the very end of the episode) into something called a "wormhole". Thus the Borg are created from a group of colonists stuck alone in the Delta quadrant who willingly become part of a collective at first as a means of survival...

Maybe not great, but better than a lame-o look what we dug up in the ice plot !

Wrong episode

[JCholewa]

> Riker fucked out of necessity

Not "First Contact". He was talking about the episode where the members are androgynous (they have no gender) and you are considered mentally ill if you develop a gender. One of the members of that planet's delegation to the Enterprise fell for Riker and decided to become a female.

In the very non-Trek style ending of this episode, that character was "reconditioned" back to understanding that genders were bad. Riker was forced to accept the loss and move on.

A lot of people hate this episode, but I think that it has a fantastic ending.

Anyway, you were thinking about the episode where Riker is spying on a pre-warp culture and gets injured and taken to a hospital where it's discovered that his body chemistry differs from the locals'. He eventually has sex with Frasier's wife in order to attempt an escape. Coincidentally, this episode *also* has a non-Trek style ending, where the leader of that world realizes that his world is unprepared to accept the existence of aliens (read: us) and the Enterprise cannot proceed with their plans with contacting this world's populace. They give up and move on.

-JC

Star Trek: No Heart, No Soul.

[rinkjustice]

How about having aliens that don't speak english, don't have two eyes, ears and one mouth, and use their God given imaginations for a change?! Do the creators/script writers even care about how weak Star trek/B5 looks, or are they just there to pick up a paycheck?

The whole Star Trek franchise is lame. So-called "aliens" from another universe look more normal than most high school kids these days.

Re:Star Trek: No Heart, No Soul.

[NoahsMyBro]

Are you really putting B5 in the same league as Star Trek????

B5 is not at all the same thing as Star Trek, and IMO is a much, much better series. Just as I was bored playing Risk once I learned Axis & Allies, I've been bored with Star Trek ever since I watched Babylon 5.

Re:Star Trek: No Heart, No Soul.

[Jesse Becker]

Actually, I recall hearing that Gene Roddenberry made a point of making sure that the actors in the original series could be identified (so they could get some recognition for their work). Since most actors on Earth, especially those in Hollywood, have two eyes, two ears, and one mouth, that limits what they can do with the aliens. Now, to be fair, there have been several "less human" looking species making appearances in the last few shows.

MOD UP PARENT POST!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

...and sign the petition!

B5 did it earlier and better

[TheConfusedOne]

The first clue should have been that Andreas Katsulas (sp?) was on this episode. Trust Trek to take a great orrator and not give him any good lines.

B5 had an episode (one of the stand-alones) where the doctor operated on a child and saved him explicitely against the orders of the child's parents. In that case the result was that they released the child with the family acting all nice and happy and the family then took him back to their quarters and performed a ritual suicide on the "shell" since the soul had already escaped.

Now in that one you had real conflict with the hyppocratic oath being dragged into the fray to boot.

The only way to save Star Trek

[fbg111]

is to get rid of Rick Berman. He abdicated key aspects of Rodenberry's vision when he took over the franchise, and it's been downhill ever since.

Creation of the Borg

[CleverNickName]

I do think the Borg have been done to death. They were at their best in Next Generation, and I still give props to whoever thought them up in the first place. Definitely one of the most original sci-fi enemies ever.


It was Michael Piller who created the Borg, and it was he who made them the terrifying badasses that they were in Best of Both Worlds I&II.

On the DVD for Season 3 or 4, Michael says that he was planning to leave TNG after he wrote Best of Both Worlds Part I, so he went ahead and made them so bad ass, and so undefeatable, because "someone else would have to figure out what to do with them."

Then Gene convinced him to stick around another year, so he ended up being "someone else!"

I think this is awesome, and it's a good lesson for writers: get your characters into trouble. Put them in a place where REAL death is certain, and then let them figure out how to get out of it. Michael wrote those stories without any hesitation or fear, and that's why they are two of the best TNG episodes ever.

For the record: In my opinion, Michael Piller is responsible for some of the best stories -- well, some of the best everything -- on The Next Generation.

Re:Creation of the Borg

[dillon_rinker]

One of my favorite authors, Lois McMaster Bujold, plots her novels by imagining the worst possible thing she could do her characters. Then she does it. Some examples...

*** MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW***

*** MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW***

*** MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW***

She spends several books building up her protagonist's career...then destroys it. It was almost painful to read, because I could see him throwing away every chance at salvation. In another novel, she kills her protagonist, in the most tragic, pointless, wasteful way possible. In one of her novellas, she gives her protagonist a love interest. Who dies (pontlessly, tragically, etc.) because of the protagonist's failure to save her. Great stuff.

Hey, Beavis.

[pjwhite]

Huh huh, huh huh. You said "nude erection".

Just gimme curvy aliens in high-heels and tights

[mnemotronic]

If all else fails (as it has so far with Enterprise), count on that good 'ol standby : sex. Show the average Trek viewer (who is a white male between 14 and 33) some hot babes in revealing clothes and all will be forgiven. Swoopy spaceships just don't seem to cut it with the 'umans anymore. What did you expect from a bipidal meat-snack?

Native americans first contact with Europeans

[Anonymous Coward]

> The Vizeans were more advanced than the
> Enterprise so the second factor doesn't play a
> part in it. Trip only gave them knowledge so they
> could make their own choices. *That's* a sign of
> respect and that's the essence of the prime
> directive.

Exactly. If you want to make a comparison, it would be as if Native Americans (who were technically less advanced than the Europeans) that the European way of life disrespected the earth and that the Sun God would eventually punish them for not being more in balance with nature.

Would the Native Americans be morally wrong to do this? If some Europeans accepted the wisdom of the Native Americans and wanted to know more, should the Native Americans shun them because of some "Prime Directive"?

That's the situation Trip was in when he talked to the Vizeans.

Secret which will explain EVERYTHING

[Col_Panic]

All this rambling on about plot continuity and time lines and alternate realities ... I have recently discovered an important axiom which will explain the reason for ALL these so called anomalies once and for all. What is most amazing is that this axiom will explain ALL subjects discussed above, ALL of them, can be expained in their entirety with 4 mere words. Here they are...

IT'S IN THE SCRIPT

Amazing isn't it? But am I not correct? These 4 simple words explain it all, not only for the "Star Trek" Universe, but also every other Universe that exists in two dimensions as photons on a flat screen.

So, the next time you have friends get into a lengthy discussion about why the Enterprise X can do warp blah blah while the Enterprise Y can do yackity yackity: first stop and remind them they are NEVER gonna get laid, then hold up your hand with four fingers and say slowly and distinctly "four words, nerd boy, its in the script"

Moderators - please correct parent

[Wolfrider]

--That's not Funny, that's probably Insightful...

OT: your sig

[Mr. Slippery]

"We gave peace a chance, we got 9/11" -Anti-Anti war protester sign.

I've heard that one.

It's one of the most bizarre twistings of history I've ever encountered, since it was Gulf War I, and the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia to enfore the "no-fly" zone, that inflamed the hatred that motivated 9/11. It was aggressive foriegn policy that had the U.S. back both Saddam and Bin Laden for many years. (Foriegn policy shaped and executed, BTW, by many people who are now ranking members of the Bush junta.)

So, just when exactly did we "give peace a chance"?

And Iraq wasn't behind 9-11.

Re:OT: your sig

[Mashiki]

I've heard that one.

It's one of the most bizarre twistings of history I've ever encountered, since it was Gulf War I, and the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia to enfore the "no-fly" zone, that inflamed the hatred that motivated 9/11. It was aggressive foriegn policy that had the U.S. back both Saddam and Bin Laden for many years. (Foriegn policy shaped and executed, BTW, by many people who are now ranking members of the Bush junta.)

So, just when exactly did we "give peace a chance"?

And Iraq wasn't behind 9-11.

I'm glad to hear you were in Gulf war 1, I was in KFOR. Not really, it would be slightly closer to general hatred of western culture and it's corrupting influence(in their eyes), out of idle curriosity have you ever had the opportunity to sit down and have a discussion with a fundamental extreamist? I had the opportunity several times while in KFOR to talk to people who felt the same way. They are an intresting group to say the least.

Yup your right, forgien policy did back Saddam, when Iran was the enemy. And so were the Russians. Different times, require differnet measure...you can grab a book and read about how both events lead to the US backing both groups. And you can read about how Usama became the man he is by one of his ex-inner circle, I can't remember his name.

Once more, times change. Ask yourself, why didn't Clinton actually turn around and do something after the last 3 attack against American Targets. Why didn't he get Usama when several countries offered him to the US? Don't say legal, national security before law in that case. They knew he was the head of a terrorist organization, even Oliver North did...and yet they did nothing.

When did we give peace a chance? I'll let you figure that out on your own. But your right, Iraq wasn't behing 9-11, they have only funded two dozen other terrorist groups around the world...and the light is coming forth that there have been meetings betwen the Mukhabarat and al-Qa'eda. But more so, the comment is ment to enflame the left. I see it got under your skin rather well.

Why are you all missing the point?

[ralphclark]

Too bad I'm late to the party. How come nobody can see what's obvious? For the hard of thinking among you, here is what this is all really about:

In the season finale, "a mysterious probe from space will blast a swath of destruction across North and Central America, [...] annihilating everything between Florida and Venezuela

*cough* 9/11 *cough*

this is a preemptive strike by an alien race known as the Xindi, who have obtained knowledge that Earth will destroy their home world

Equates to some nebulous, distant and hidden enemy like Al Qaeda or Saddam's Iraq.

"In the past, our captains have had the general mission to explore outer space [...] But there has never been a Trek series built around a specific mission and specific stakes-in this case, the very future of mankind".

Now they are clearly looking to cash in on the American people's warlust. By equating the Federation with the United Stated rather than, as it was, the United Nations; by concocting a hidden, distant enemy in the style of those created by GWB, by creating a threat that will justify the Federation blowing up lots of stuff while making them look good (well, in their own eyes anyway).

If you look back at the history of Trek you will see that on the whole, Trek has always espoused a tolerant and inclusive humanity, exploring the galaxy peacefully, reacting in a warlike way to direct threats only, and even then only with appropriate force.

But this does not go down well with a population who have accepted a president ready to drag the whole world into war because of a single terrorist incident. This does not go down well in a nation that has embraced "shock and awe" tactics rather than proportionate military response.

It looks like Star Trek is finally about to lose its idealistic platform; the one thing - according to all the documentaries and interviews about the show - that made Star Trek special and different from everything else. If that happens it becomes just another yawn yawn space opera and I think it would have to presage the end of the franchise, for all the old fans at least. Gene Roddenberry must be spinning in his grave.

But perhaps this is good thing, huh? After all, the biggest threat - no, the only threat - to a US government intending to dominate the world through overwhelming military force, is having their own population confused by old-style Star Trek hippy ideals of peace, tolerance and justice for all. Far better for them to be properly inspired with the good old boy Yee-Haw style of gunboat diplomacy that passes for US foreign policy in the 21st century.

What I want to see in the future of Enterprise

[sjanich]

Here is the direction I want to see:

Multi-episode, big plot storylines ala Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

I want the rock-n-roll (or the "damn the torpedos, full speed ahead") attitude of Kirk from the original Star Trek, in the Enterprise Captain (Archer or his replacement).

Drop the John Williams-like orchesteral soundtrack, and get something more interesting. I loved the background music from the orginak Star Trek. The need something that memorable and that different

Fuck with the Star Trek established continuity. The future timeline doesn't need to be what we think it is. There is a temporal war going on, don't be afraid to be unconventional about this.

Get some contemporary science fiction writers to script an episode, story line, character arc, or story arc. Reach outside of the normal Star Trek writers to get some new blood and new ideas. I would also consider offering the Farscape guys a 2 or 3 episode story arc.

Better dialouge (faster/more interesting/memoriable). See for reference: Sports Night, West Wing, Gilmore Girls, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. None of these are Sceince Fiction shows. Enterprise should cherry pick some stylistic ideas (or writers) from them.

Visually make the show more interesting. Show more of the ship. Use different camera angles and editing styles. Try occasional non-linear/multi-persdpective story lines (ala Boomtown). Do episodes completley from a re-occuring or guest stars point of view.

If I wasn't a geek reading this post...

[alchemist68]

I would have to say GET A LIFE people. Just as all the office ladies gossip about who's sleeping with who on whatever soap opera, we geeks & nerds actually write a permanent record of the speculative direction that a Sci-Fi TV series should take for the next episode season. Don't get me wrong, I'm just an enthusiastic as the next Vulcan want-to-be, but looking at this post from an outside perspective, I'd think some people here need to get a life, and better yet, FIND A WOMAN. What started me thinking about this was reading through the posts and numerous people siting the historical timeline of Star Trek History, what happened when, involving such and such characters and alien species. Yes, it's a nice fantasy universe to live in, but it's not real, and people argue, with serious passion and vigor, as if it was real.

All your molecule and energy belong to the universe.

Re:The Eugenics Wars, part 2 available

[Lord John Whorfin]

Boy, anything with Gary Seven gets a second look from me.

Oh, and good news for you, DeadVulcan. On the strength of your review, I checked out Amazon for the first book, and there was the second in paperback, dated March, 2003. For $6.99, it can be yours:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/07 43 406443/qid=1052176593/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-794570 7-7720727?v=glance&s=books

It's not a need for new hair ...

[WillASeattle]

It's a serious lack of miniskirts for the female crewmembers and a severe lack of ripped shirts and flared pants on the part of the male crewmembers ...

Fix that and you won't need the Borg ...

Star Trek goes outside to play

[fm6]

A show I WOULD have watched eagerly would have been one BEFORE all this technology (save the ability to travel at warp). NO transporters, NO phasers, NO tractor beams, heck no artificial gravity even..

You could be talking about one of two shows. The first one that comes to mind is a Star Trek set right after First Contact when everyone's still struggling to rebuild civilization. And yeah, that would have been really cool. They probably thought of something along those lines. But it would be set mostly outdoors, and outdoor sets cost more. (The very same thing happened to DS9, which was originally written to take place in the refugee camp in "Ensign Rho".) The Berman/Roddenberry junta has always been penny pinchers. That's the one reason they so love gadgetry -- it's cheaper than fancy sets, or even good scripts.

The other one is the "Anti-Trek", the Joss Whedon series Firefly which was cancelled after only 12 episodes. Everybody complained that it wasn't futuristic enough. Which tends to confirm my opinion that real Science Fiction is something you read, not something you watch.

Test

[DCowern]

test.

Re:Test

[DCowern]

Sorry for this post and the parent. I accidently modded someone incorrectly (a negative mod instead of a positive one :( )... I posted the above to undo the moderation.

Moderators, please disregard this post and the parent. Thanks!

Re:Bring in J. Michael Straczynski!!!

[mink]

I dunno, he did try to pitch Bab5 as a Trek series back in the past.

I saw the borg episode

[56ksucks]

... and it was actually pretty cool. They tied it into the movie pretty well.

OT: Star Trek thoughts that keep me awake at night

[timbck2]

While we're on the topic of Star Trek...

There are a couple of thoughts that have nagged me over the years. Perhaps someone more versed in Star Trek minutiae can answer.

1. I've always thought that perhaps Guinan was a member of Species 8472 ... she always reacted with intense fear/hatred towards the Borg, which would be consistent with 8472's reaction. And I remember a TNG episode in which Q told Picard not to trust Guinan and hinted that she was not at all what she appeared to be. Anyone else have anything to add?

2. Why have we never heard of the Denobulans until "Enterprise"? It seems like they would have appeared later since they were working with Earth so early on...yet I can't recall any mention of them in TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, or any of the movies. What happened to them "later"?