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Matrix Reloads to $42.5 Million Opening
Dante Alighieri writes "Box Office Mojo,
the Washington Post, E!, and others reports that The Matrix Reloaded opened with a record of $42.5 million in ticket sales."
I saw it yesterday and have a variety of opinions on it, but the short review is that it isn't the original, but it's pretty damn cool, and I'm first in line for Revolution.
When you have a somewhat accurate portrayal of hacking in movies?
heheh
Coincidence? Yeah, probably.
This post... TO BE CONCLUDED
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
They messed up everything. They fecked up the story line. Sure, it was cool to see them kick ass all the time, but if you remember the first movie, it was nothing like this one.. I hope the third one can make up for the loss i felt from this one.
I've left to find myself. If you happen to see me, please, keep me there until I return.
I thought that the first Matrix movie did two things well...1) had great, fantastical action sequences, and 2) messed with Neo's head and thus our heads.
it sounds like they decided to drop the latter and concentrate on the former. too bad, but maybe they are just doing what they are good at.
I found
Scott Kurtz's review very interesting.
that a ceratin scene in zion where lots of skin is shown along with partying was completely uncessary and detrcted form the theme of the movie?
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
First I've heard of it.
---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
The Matrix was good.
Sequel is then announced.
Sequel is in theatres and people see it.
Hardly surprising it would rake in the dough given all the hype. The Matrix is simply a good movie [trilogy(?)]. Hard to say that about most of the filler that comes out.
[minor spoilers]
I saw Matrix last night, but it seems that the silly folks at the theater lost the last 5-15 minutes of the movie!
One second, we were watching Neo and the other dude on the table, and then all of a sudden the movie abruptly said "To be continued", and went straight switched to the credits!
Where's the conclusion? I'm out here hanging in the wind! Half the audience was booing...
Argggg!
[/minor spoilers , but I think it's fair to warn people about the ending to this movie so they're not dissapointed]
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
I don't know about everyone else but, Reloaded basically told everyone that the first movie was bullshit.
I was disappointed with the villain development (there wasn't any.)Some of the fight scenes were totally unecessary, especially the replication scene. Neo just supermans his ass out of there after exploiting all of the latest filming techniques.
Revolutions better fix things up or I'm going to be a very sad panda.
and thought it was freaking *awesome*.
I didn't find that there was a whole lot of plot development, but what was there was interesting and definitely ties in with the original. The action sequences were just phenomenal, and the soundtrack is freaking awesome. I'd definitely see it again, and I'm definitely waiting for Revolution.
The original had a surprisingly good story line, which overcame the cheesy Kung-Fu. That seems to have evaporated.
Now it's just going through the motions, punching the ticket.
I guess I'm gonna go see it eventually, perhaps tomorrow morning at 10am or something when all the geeks are still in bed.
Newsfollow.com
I saw the movie last night. My opinion is definitely mixed. The action, was non-stop and outrageous (good), once it got really going. The plot was garbled. The Mind trips were wild. The sex scene, boring uninspired and looking like a hack for 14yo boys. The special effects some better than most(Computer Animation sucked and was OBVIOUS). The ending, uninspired, and transperent. The trailer following the credits, gives away the next movie, and the sucky ending to this one.
Overall rating (scale 1-10) 7.15
This is just MY view, you are entitled to yours. This one is mine.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
In the beginning i thought it was pretty lame, but by the end (plus the SSHing) i thought it was awesome.
"Martha Stewart can lick my Scrotum......do i have a scrotum?" -- Sharon Osbourne
Top geek/hacker moment:
Trinity uses SSH!!!!!
My two cents,
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
Not trying to troll here, but the problem with it, IMO, is that the Wachowskis (who wrote and directed it) received so much praise for the first Matrix movie, that they were under the impression the whole world wanted to hear them babble on and on about it.
Characters will talk for what seems like hours and never actually say anything. In the first movie, the language was simple (Morpheus holds up a battery and proclaims that the machines: "Turn humans... into this."), and you just had to wrap your head around the concepts. In RELOADED, you have to wade through all the tech talk before you can even start to understand what you're being told... by then it's time for the next scene already.
Also a problem was the overabundance of subplots (Agent Smith, the Morpheus love-triangle, the operator of the Nebachadneza(sp?) and his wife, etc) that they're all underdeveloped and hard to care about.
Great action though. The Wachowskis obviously care about developing their mythology quite a bit, and that's commendable (and for some, this will demand repeated viewing), but they just need to make it a little more accessible IMO.
"But the cars are all flashing me, bright lights are passing me, I feel life passing me by" - Stiff Little Fingers
Both movies were highly stylized action films which relied on mysticism and special effects to cover up what they really are.
I mean, wether you agree that it's profound or not (I never understood that one), you can't argue with the fact that The Matrix was a pretty, but pretty mediocre genre film.
Enjoyable, sure; but take it for what it is, and stop trying to read crap into it which isn't there!
Hmm, you didn't think that the whole architect guy mentioning several other "saviours" wasn't messing with Neo? Or the Oracle for that matter? This issue of choice messed with him, just as much as the issue of reality messed with him in the first one.
Now, I was seriously messed with right when he was given choices, but I was also messed with later when I contemplated what is being said: "You're not here to make a choice, you've already made it, you're here to find out why you made that choice." Wow. So life isn't making choices, but discovering who we are and why we do what we do. Maybe you don't agree with it, but it is something to think about, and to, in your terms, "mess with our heads."
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
I thought it was pretty awesome, the love scenes weren't necessarily needed, but hey, i'm not complaining. 8) The special effects kicked ass. The analogies made in the movies definately sit back and make you say "whoa". Most of them were true to life. Without spoiling the movie, make sure you listen to the analogies made in the movie, especially the ones to programming. Its really a geeks movie if i ever saw one. goes right up there (on a different shelf- but still a classic like..) monty python. Absolutely. :)
~Just keep eating, porky. Fat people are harder to kidnap.
Hissing 'Matrix' fans reloaded w/ tickets, popcorn
Stephanie Paterik
The Arizona Republic
May. 16, 2003 02:10 PM
Hard-core Matrix Reloaded fans threw popcorn, pounded on the projection room window and ran screaming from the theater when a projector broke during a first-night showing in Chandler.
Hundreds of people waited hours at Harkins Chandler Fashion Center to see the highly anticipated Matrix sequel at 11 p.m. on opening night Wednesday. A projector lamp broke during the heavily advertised freeway chase scene.
"The movie was ruined," said Ward Andrews, 28, of Chandler. "You're excited, you're tense and then you don't get to see the key sequence in the film."
The audio continued to roll but was drowned out by people yelling and shaking their seats. One man climbed on someone's shoulders to pound on the projection room window, said Aubrey Johnson, 22, of Chandler, who waited five hours to see the show.
The problem was fixed in 10 minutes, but it was impossible to rewind and show the missed two minutes, said Harkins' Jackie Faubus. People who left were given two movie passes each. Those who stayed got coupons for free popcorn.
I liked the movie. Some cool action sequences combined with mellow moody scenes and, like the first movie, an abundance of philosophical topics. Sure, if you know anything about philosophy then you realize that the topics touched upon in the Matrix are hardly groundbreaking. "free choice", "fate", "alternate realities", "Artificial Inteligence", "AI Singularity concequences", etc. All these topics are good for the mind (free the mind imho) but are rarely presented in an accessable way to Joe Average. I have had more semi-philosopical discussions with friends about the Matrix then about any other recent box office success.
Bring it on Washowski brothers! We want more!
WARNING: Plot Spoiler
WARNING: Plot Spoiler
WARNING: Plot Spoiler
It's the gnostic appreciation of life and the senses. I found it moving, sensual and erotic. Notice that the machines were willing to even make bombs that are machines. And, when Neo finally finds the machine he has to talk to, everything is just about aborations in the system. It cannot make the jump to the idea that perhaps there is something beyond logic and fact, an appreciation for life is one of t(R7
Bel, the mostly sane.. "Of course I can't see anything! I'm standing on the shoulders of idiots." -- Me
5/4/2002 Spider-Man $43,622,264
5/15/2003 The Matrix Reloaded $42,508,303
5/3/2002 Spider-Man $39,406,872
11/16/2002 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets $34,213,803
11/17/2001 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone $33,512,941
11/16/2001 Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone $32,333,203
5/3/2003 X2: X-Men United $32,000,629
www.the-numbers.com
I think some people went to this movie thinking it would make them realize much more out of life than is expected, much like the first. But if you read any modern philosophy (Berkeley, Hume, Kant, etc) you would already have answered the questions the first movie brought up. Now in reloaded the Wachowski brothers just surfaced more of the same philosophers original works. Causality, purpose, yada yada, that was all dealt with in the new movie; in the first it was epistemology.
:)
I went into this movie only for the action shots. On the other hand I did enjoy the brief breaks like the "rave". Coulda done without so much of Reeve's skin and a little more of Moss's, which I've dubbed Trinititty
Anyways, goto the movie only expecting awsome effects. The philosophy's still there but much more subtle. Being that Revolutions was filmed at the same time I doubt it will be any different than this one.
On a side note, Enter the Matrix looks like a fun game. I'll rent before buying it.
Who is that masked man?
...this movie was cool. Just the action and intellectual level I was looking to see on a Friday night. Furthermore, my experience with "Star Wars" (Episodes 1 and 2) has given me the ability to endure surprising amounts of poor acting and stilted dialogue. I'm ready to throw down another $8.75 to see that movie again, and I'm someone who is too cheap to go see movies in theaters to being with.
OR
I think you're trying to hinder everyone's right to opinion. Just because you want to sound smart and pound jargin into our heads like we're drones milling around having anonymous sex doesn't mean you're some savior to show us the light. Let us talk, you don't have to listen.
Who is that masked man?
...is that the evil computers are running Unix?! :)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I really hate going to the theater, which is nothing more than a suburban teenage hang-out. Not to mention the fact that there is a stigma about being the lone creepy guy in the back row.
Watched the VCD and thought the first hour was a waste with little story/character development, though the second half made up for it.
Of course ... see the movie and judge for yourself ...
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
I think the problem is that the first hour of the movie has none of the questioning. Neo isn't really challenged on that level. In the first movie, almost every single scene presented some new piece of information. In this one, there's a lot of running around and fighting, and in between those scenes, it's people talking about doing it. Either that, or we're treated to overly long rave scenes and overly long exposition about "cause and effect."
The last half is when things got cool and felt like a sequel to the first one.
Granted, much of these structure problems may make more sense when Revolutions is released, since they were treated as one big movie split in two. The movie was good, but I missed the goth-noir feel of the first one, and I missed the real sense of danger. Only near the end did I feel that.
"Sufferin' succotash."
From a philosophical and spiritual point of view I enjoyed this film more than the first. I left the first film thinking, wow what a great idea. I left this film questioning everything I just saw. The angle of Neo being the rebellious child of the world that was created by the architect, and realizing that he has free will and the same abilities the creators of the Matrix and lesser programs have really resonated with me. I can see where they are going and am quite interested in seeing if the real world is discovered to be another type of Matrix. Which I hope is the bold angle they might take instead of it being part of the same Matrix designed as a distraction. The creators of this film truly managed to convey a deep message intertwined with intense action and the idea that "he is just human" disputing itself repeatedly. They expounded on the original concept very well, leaving splintering questions in my mind. He was handed a spoon in the real world before returning to the Matrix. Maybe he will realize once again that there is no spoon. After all, what is real?
#!/i/am/chaos
That's a bit of an unfair criticism. 'heavy' language can often be used to accentuate the writers' point. However, I do agree that using profanity for it's own sake is usually a mistake.
And really, I don't think that there is any artistic necessity to use the word 'fuck' in a film. I just don't see it.
On the opposite side, "Spider Man" was pretty good, that got promoted like a mother.
As far as the business goes, it seems like word of mouth type movies sometimes get popular, but often-times don't. It took an Oscar for "Spirited Away" to get big.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Taking into consideration, it makes the death of all of those people at the end more real.
It is much easier to forget about the deaths of those you have never seen. This helps to lend credence to the fact that the number of dead was quite staggering.
-- Dan
one guy i ment not "one go"
why the hell didn't they show the opening scene where she jumps off the bike and they give that great ass shot, again at the end of the movie?! damn them!
MABASPLOOM!
For those of you that have not seen all of the Animatrix, there were 2 direct references to it in Reloaded.
1) Final Flight of the Osiris: well, this reference one is obvious enough. The Osiris is a sister ship that sees the comming army and sends a warning message back to Zion.
2) Kid's Story: In this Animatrix Neo gives some kid a personal invite out of the matrix and he makes it. I'm almost certain that the kid following Neo around in Zion is this same kid (especially the "I didn't save you, you saved yourself" quote, which follows with the Animatrix how the kid cept himself alive).
Oh, and no, the Animatrix doesn't come out on DVD for an other 2 weeks or so, which is a shame. You think they would have released it first since it really adds quite a bit to the story.
So, it could be argued that it's a 'theme', and not just a cheap excuse to [not?] show TnA. ;)
Opening is usually the opening weekend, from Friday to Sunday. Thursday is not considered part of that opening weekend.
and i didn't find the sex scene all that interesting. i think their position and the camera angle wasn't very good. i thought the music during the clone fight thingy was obnoxious as well as the music when he was fighting with all the swords on the wall. other than that. very nice movie.
was the stupidest thing I have seen in a while. I liked the rest though...
I sat down and was immediately treated to a sequence of over the top eye candy... as if I truly needed to be drawn into the movie any more than having watched the first one practically every day in college as a stress-relief. But thankfully it slowed down.... but didn't advance the plot much. Over all only about 20 minutes of actual plot were in place- very disappointing. It was screwing with my head- in fact I've an opinion about the 'real-world' now that bugged me in the first one but I'm not sharing :)
:)
I just wish there was a bit more plot, less sex, and less 'action'. Hard to believe as I'm an action junky (kiss of the dragon has 2 incredible action sequences as well choreographed as the matrix) but.... they'd better release the 'concluded' part very DAMN SOON because I'm highly irritated at where they left it
A LOT of people seem to have very much disliked this movie. This didn't annoy me until I talked to them, and now it does, a little. I don't mind people not liking a movie I liked, but from talking to a lot of such people i'm beginning to cynically suspect that almost everyone who really disliked Matrix Reloaded did so for one simple reason:
They walked into the movie expecting it to be Matrix 1 again, and it isn't. It's a different movie.
That may be a little unfair, but really, most of the people who hated Matrix Reloaded, you ask them why, and what they answer is that the movie basically failed to live up to the specific expectations they had coming in. Well, whatever. I *liked* the surprise of the general tack the movie took, and I for one actually realized before I walked in that it was just going to be a "fun action movie", so I was prepared for that. You know how I know? *BECAUSE THE TRAILERS MADE IT COMPLETELY FRICKING OBVIOUS* that it was going to be a straightforward action movie!
And I'm less sure about this, but: I think the main argument against it seems to be that they missed the "depth" of the first one. Except the second one had its own sort of depth, it just wasn't at all on the same subjects. The first one was full of this very interesting exploration of the meaning of reality. The second one didn't do this, becuase they'd already said everything they had to say on that subject (anyway, the entire second movie almost is spent in the Matrix, and they KNOW what the nature of reality is in the Matrix). The second one just tells a story, but arcing through that story is an also pretty interesting exploration of [mouseover for minor spoiler]. But a lot of people watched it *wanting* this to be an exploration of the nature of reality, and tried to interpret what depth there was as being depth about the nature of reality, from which viewpoint the plot movements seemed asinine and random, the philosophizing seemed irrelivant and trite, and the dialogue seems like bullshit shoehorned in so the movie would have "deep philosophical dialogue" in. But once you get the movie, it works really well. I think.
And it isn't like the ideas in the first one are the most brilliant, original things ever. It was just that the way they were *presented* was brilliant. In a way, the first movie was just an action movie with Plato's Cave as the star. The second movie was just an action movie with [mouseover for MAJOR spoiler] as the star.
(Note: I will acknowledge the second movie had a little bit of trouble getting its momentum started, and the beginning was a little disjointed, and I know that can ruin an entire movie for some people. But I think it redeemed itself pretty quickly..)
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
What directors are thinking of, these days, is box sets; and how their movies will fit in that format. Basically, I found it jarring watching starwars back-to-back because of stopping at ESB and then restarting at Jedi Granted, doing things this way makes the theatre-going experience a bit of a let-down for the reasons you've cited; but that's why you bought the big-screen tv and the dvd player in the first place, right? ;)
Taco,
It's "Reloaded", not "Reloads".
Seems to me this is only something to think about if you haven't done much thinking up to this point.
This reminds me of the time I was walking down the street, just minding my own business, when some nicely dressed gentlemen on bicycles were going around passing out Morman religious materials. Since I am proud of my religion, I find it somewhat offensive when these guys come up and offer theirs. They always like to ask questions, too. So these two guys come up and ask me if I'd like a Bible. (At least they cut to the chase this time.) Holding up my arms as if presenting a new reality, I say, "This... is the construct." The guys were like, uh, let's get out of here!!! On another occasion, I said, "Do you hear that?" (Hear what?) "That is the sound of inevitability."
In real life, were we not concerned about making a living or feeding children, what would we do all day? It would not be much different than what we saw in that scene, if you thought it might all end shortly.
All I know is, if I ever get the sense that I might be dead within 24 hours, Monica Belluci better not be within driving distance of me, or she is going to get more from me than what Neo gave her.
Okay, I'll tell you why it wasn't challanging at all to me. The stupid thing turned into a friggin love story! Aw, Neo sacrifices everything to save his woman, how cute. The first movie was more of an introspective thing challanging perception. This turned into a cheesey feel good movie, just like the new star wars ended up doing. I'm tired of happy endings and love stories, I want a challanging movie that doesn't have a happy ending to sell tickets. This is why I admired Fight Club so much, the movie made itself a philosophical plot, and stuck with it all the way through.
-Alex
Trying to find the sexiest woman that will screw you is all about free will and choice, two of the main themes from the movie.
I just saw The Animatrix last night (I know it's not released yet), and it's really good. I especially liked Kid's Story. I think if you like The Matrix and anime, you'll like The Animatrix. :)
Anyone else seen it yet? Lemme know
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
(tiny spoiler) Who was the guy on the other table at the end? Was it the freaky guy that was gonna stab Neo right before he got handed the spoon?
... now who wanted that spoon delivered to Neo again?
Which it seems interesting that the spoon is basically what prevented Neo's death in the real world
I gotta see it again, last one took me 2 or 3 times before I got 95% of it.
Then give that troll a contract and send him to hollywood: sounds like your typical PR stunt/astroturfing to me! LOL
I dont mean to troll, and I'm not. Its just very disapointing to see how many people have now seen two of the three movies, and fail to get the point of it all. You bozo's who think that The Matrix is about Kung-Fu and special effects really need to get your heads out of your asses.
The entire trilogy is nothing but a philosophy lesson, with some cool shit built into it to drag your asses to the theater. If anything, the films have proven to me just how fucked up and stupid most of us are, when it comes to anything requiring thought.
Think I'm wrong and just trolling? Here is a challenge: Can anyone tell me the significance of who was laying next to Neo at the cliffhanger? Can you tell me what it means? Not just who it is, but WHY it is? Can you even remember the cat's name?
Come on, give me a reason to believe that we are all not just a bunch of stupid assholes.
What the hell are you talking about? Did you see the movie, or did you just read a buncha whiney negative reviews? What did he sacrifice to saver her? Sure theres a love interest in the movie, but that hasn't eclipsed the real story there at all.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
nah, don't know if that would sound right... number might be too high
Without the Matrix, my life is without meaning. Why can't we all just get along?
Let's put it this way: If the first movie's goal was to convince Neo, as Trinity stated, "that the Matrix can not tell you who you are", then the second movie's goal was to convince Neo to reconsider that.
And let's not forget that, by the end of the film, they were messing with Morpheus' head and thus our heads, not to mention Neo's final bit of action at the end of the movie...
Oh yeah, they're still messing with our heads. And you'd better bet that in order for Revolutions to be successful, they're going to have to wrap up this chapter of the Matrix story while leaving us as flabbergasted as before.
I was listening to part of a program on NPR that was saying that the Matrix had to use violence to attract people in order to get its message through. As a sequel, the violence must be better than the previous movie. I was annoyed too, but maybe this says more about the kind of society we live in than what kind of judgement was used in making the movie. The second half of the movie made it well worth it.
.
So since this is a spoiler thread, do you think all we have seen so far has been inside the matrix? Instead of having 5 "rebirths" of "the one", the same Neo has had to go through the same story over and over again. We are told that everyone has to make a choice to accept the Matrix, at a certain level. Are the machines trying to crush Neo's hope and get him to accept the Matrix as reality by giving him false hope, over and over again? Was the Matrix fully "reloaded" this time around? I see a new Matrix game coming out that has the Matrix "reloaded" instead of you dying.
This movie has left me much more puzzled than the first one . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
So rape is now a celebration of the human spirit? You sick fuck.
Obviusly, that scene means that the production team hired a real hacker to consult him about computer stuff. Like, "When you try to access another computer, do you really see big red letters saying 'Acces denied!'?..."
Any ideas who might be the happy hacker that led the Wachowski brothers in the right path?
Reloaded will start showing the 22th here in Panamá... I'll make sure I carefully read the credits at the end.
Yes I saw the movie and I don't see how you can't see that it's pretty much just a love story. I have a hard time seeing any deep philosophical meaning in it, certainly nothing that's new or exciting. The architect told him he could continue the system and everything would start over, or he could continue in this world and crash the system (which would mean he had a chance to save her) He decided he wanted to take that chance purely based on the fact that he didn't want to see her die. That part of the story line just had far too much emphasis for me. If you disagree, fine, but try to look at the story line objectively, and tell me it's not just a glorified love story with 20 minute special effect fight scenes now.
-Alex
Uhhh... according to The Architect, he sacrificed the entire human race by not going through the door on his right.
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
From a larger analysis of the movie at
http://www.icarusindie.com
Everything that has happened in The Matrix has happened for a reason. This idea of "purpose" is laid down thick in "Reloaded." Cause and effect. The most pointless scene in all of Matrix: Reloaded was the love scene. It was painfully out of place. It may just be a red haring. It may have just been a poor attempt at selling tickets. My theory is that it will play a role in the final Matrix. I'm hoping it won't be a blatant rip off of Star Wars where everyone though Anakin was "The One" while it turns out it was his son and Anakin actually ends up being evil. I believe there will be a baby however the purpose of that baby may simply be to leave room for another trilogy. Or it may play a role in breaking free of what is really controlling everyone.
-----------
After writing that I believe the Matrix is playing with the snake which eats it's own tale theme. Neo is either his own father or the son of God who will destroy his father and who's son will be destined to one day destroy him. This plays with the standard Greek storyline that Gods would bear children destined to destroy them so they would devise ways to keep their children from learning their destiny in an effort to maintain their control.
Either way, I believe Neo is both responsible for the enslavement of mankind and the source of it's freedom.
The prophecy is the control which keeps Neo on this circular path. Now that he has love he may otherthrow "God" but choose not to become greedy and seek more power resulting in the circle going around one more time.
We may either see that Neo raises his son to love his father thus breaking the cycle or that there is no free will and we learn WHY the choices were made that keep the circle going. It's a matter of considering what point the authors are trying to make.
In Red Dwarf it was simply accepted that Lister was his own father and that nothing can change destiny. That may be the case with The Matrix as well. Either way it would be a satisfactory conclusion.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
What I would like to see is a list of movie records adjusted for inflation. Every time I see a *new opening record* or *highest grossing movie of all time* I immediately think bullshit, just marketting leading the sheeple on.
I would like to see numbers adjusted not only for inflation, but also amount of tickets sold, screens shown at, etc etc. For example, I figure a movie that opens only in the midwest selling out every available ticket would rate higher than a nation wide opening selling 50% of tickets.
Just because a record is broken doesn't make it popular movie. If I could manage to show a movie in EVERY theatre worldwide and sell only 5% of the seats at each showing, I also could smash records. Theatres would be empty, but due to shear numbers I would win.
De Oppresso Liber
In fact, the Architect (white beard dude) made a point of it: the One's love of humanity (which was part of what made him the One) was much more general the first five times around, but now it was focused on one individual - Trinity.
So it's saying, in effect, that Neo's love for Trinity is part of what makes him the One.
The world can be wrong today for once.
"Unfortunately, I think that is going to be missed on the vast majority of the movie watchers."
Hopefully the violence and sex scenes will help people digest those more advanced ideas like "a little sugar makes the medicine go down."
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Nice to see some good old fashioned cultural elitism. If you check box office results for Japan, you'll find out that "Spirited Away" was the highest grossing domestic film in Japan ever. And it was the third highest grossing film in Japan after "Titanic" and "Harry Potter." This was before the Oscars.
Did anyone else think 'Ghostbusters' when they started talking about the Keymaker?
"Are you the gatekeeper?"
"I am the Keymaster!"
This god-awful Matrix sequel, or the god-awful Highlander sequel?
/. poll of "worst sequel ever"...
I think the Highlander Sequel(s) were somewhat worse, because the Matrix II didn't actually *completely* ruin the experience of the first movie. However, it did somewhat ruin the experience of the first movie, and that's pretty bad.
Definitely one of those sequels I wish I had never seen, so as not to screw-up my relationship of the original movie.
Maybe there should be a
Bambi's mother gets shot by a hunter! WTF was up with that?
Acually, I haven't seen the new Matrix movie yet, but I was feeling left out because I hadn't written a spoiler warning yet. I feel better now.
Shut up, asshole. She wants me.
Would that be the "ENTIRE" human race, or the pink nuggets in all the tanks? There are lots of fully-functioning humans in Zion that could probably create a new planet alone. They have plenty of genetic diversity.
I was one of 7 people in the theatre for a matinee on opening day. Paid a whole $4/ticket. Wow, that's 28 bucks right there!
The problem was fixed in 10 minutes, but it was impossible to rewind and show the missed two minutes, said Harkins' Jackie Faubus. People who left were given two movie passes each. Those who stayed got coupons for free popcorn.
They fixed the problem in 10 minutes, but only missed 2 minutes of the movie? Sounds like something out of the plot, with the Matrix out of synch, I guess the Matrix has to be some kind of distributed network with multiple clocks...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I was wondering what the budget for the movie was.. anyone knows?
SPOILER DO not READ further if you HAVE not SEEN and dont WANT to KNOW.
Is it just me or has everyone missed the fact NEO messed with the supposedly 'real' world at the end ? They are still in the Matrix. There is more than one. Zion is a Matrix, one built with different rules, a different purpose. It serves the needs of the phophecy. The question is if NEO can break the cycle.
I don't ask you to be me. I only ask you not expect me to be you.
I know The Numbers said they'd try to break down the earnings by day if they could, but it appears that they haven't yet.
So, basically, this opening figure could be exaggerated a little.
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
I saw the movie yesterday, and I was shocked when a number of people walked out in the middle of the Zion "dance" scene. I'm totally flummoxed by this, as I thought it was one of the coolest scenes in the film. I suppose that not many of the Matrix's core audiences have been to dances like that before.
In fact, the only moment of the whole film where I had a genuine "woah" reaction was the moment during this scene when the music shifted from the Zion music to the club-house-dance music and the camera style abruptly changed. Something about that instant was amazing.
Did anyone catch Princeton's Black History professor Cornel West as one of the Zion rulers? Awesome.
[Spoilage -- unless you don't plan to see it, because you didn't like the first (might change your mind)]
The humans as batteries thing in the first one was complete idiocy. Even for science fiction, using human body heat as an enormously efficient energy supply is absurd. For this reason, I absouletly hated the first and didn't even want to see the next one.
But I did. And I'm glad, because all that nonsense battery business is now just part of Morpheus's Fantasy/Prophecy and the real nature of the Matrix is beginning to become apparent. The Matrix no longer seems to be as self-contained as before. When the sentinels are hunting down Neo, et al., somehow Neo understands more and is able to take them down, just like bullets in the Matrix. This leads us to believe that the so called real world, where Zion is, is also part of some larger Matrix. So why is there a inner and outer Matrix? Perhaps it has something to do with the Architect trying to prevent the anomaly in his system from taking over too soon. Thankfully that makes all that Prophetic Man v Machine Luddite garbage just another safe guarding layer created in fantasy to keep the system from going down.
If you ask ask me, by the time the 'Matrix: Reloaded' is over -- and if you did manage to stay out of the meaningless subplots -- you realize that just about everything has become meaningless, and the roles previous played have been abandoned.
Neo no longer seems organic, but more a contrived 'program' there trying to to become more than what his parameters allow him. Likewise Smith no longer feels so mechanistic: he is 'unplugged', and his fevor for everything shows deep undirected metaphysical angst.
So who are the characters? Why do they exist?
The only clues we're left with come from the Oracle and the Architect. I'm not completely sure of all of that -- I've got to go see it again -- but here's what I've gathered so far.
The Orcale hints at the nested nature of the Matrix by telling Neo that he need not consider what he will do, but only why he will do it. Considering what a matrix is in mathematics, I find this similar to a scalar acting on a matrix: we could consider a scalar and a matrix (analgous to Neo and the Matrix) as two separate entities with one acting on the other, but ultimately what they form is simply another matrix. Having understood this Neo no longer is forced to choose his steps, only to understand why he takes them. It's really an interesting philosophical development into the role of Neo and the containment of the Matrix.
As for hints given by the Architect, there's always the fact that he refers to Neo as 'still human.' I'm taking this as an indication that his purpose is to become more. What? We'll have to wait and see.
Anybody else out there with some insight, especially those unlike me, who have seen it twice?
[/Spoliage]
Sorry for the Goldmember quote, but...
Remember that this a part of the trilogy as a whole. I really think any criticisms of this movie by itself can, and will, be silenced when we finally see Revolutions, and the see all three in a row -- totallly immersing ourselves in the world of the Matrix. (Sounds like marketing, but think about it) If you think about a normal plot sequence in any story (book, movie, etc.) this is how it usually is (for those of you who forgot freshmen english):
|Rising *** <-- Climax
|Action ** *
| | ** *
| V ** ** <-- Falling (or Resolution)
| ** **
------------------
Matrix Reloaded is the top two lines, little character development, little plot preperation (even not necessarily any plot development), and some critical elements to the story. This key element in Reloaded is Choice. However, that doesn't make the first half (which is more discovery of himself and the system he exists in) any less important -- as Karl Menninger noted "To "know thyself" must mean to know the malignancy of one's own instincts and to know, as well, one's power to deflect it." Very apropos don't you think?
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
1. The Orgy Scene
2. The Twins
3. Neo and Trinity
1. This is my biggest and only real complaint about the movie. This scene lasted much too long. At first, I could not even imagine a purpose for the scene, but someone in this comment forum has carelessly yet effectively explained how the scene's purpose was to illustrate the humans' love for real life. When humanity itself is threatened and you are the occupants of the last human city, you can bet that the primal instincts are going to come out and play. Still, I think the scene could have been significantly shortened. (Then again, there's no telling whose faces we might see if we look slowly and carefully through the scene when the DVD is released.)
2. I'm not sure if I am disappointed or relieved, but I feel like the Twins were showcased more in the trailers than the movie warranted. Or perhaps the point was to lead us to believe that their role was more prominent than it is in order to surprise us with Agent Smith, whose scenes surpassed everything I had imagined prior to seeing the film. Either way, I feel like they could have done more or played a role closer to the center of the plot, but as things are, they should still be around for the third installment...
3. Okay, this is just the teenage boy in me, and maybe this can be an outtake, a spoof, or something else later, but why don't Neo and Trinity "play" around in the Construct? Can you imagine the limits they could reach with the ability to program various skills, ideas, locales into their minds? The possibilities are endless! Matrix p0rn! (Okay, the end.)
Finally, it must be said that the visual effects were awesome, Rob Dougan's and Juno Factor's music was killer, and, well, there isn't enough to be said about the story. Great movie. I plan to see it several times more ... before I turn 21 in July.
I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, so it's either so obvious that everyone got it, or nobody did:
At the end of the movie, it becomes clear that what we have come to know as the world outside of the matrix is still happening INSIDE the matrix.
We know this b/c the Architect states that with each iteration, the machines become more adept at drilling down to Zion, and because Neo finds he can use his powers outside in the so-far-known real world.
What worries me about the third installment is how they will justify this. The first movie was great because it had simple themes. By saying, "oops, fooled you, they're still in the matrix even when they're not", I worry that it will end up being super lame.
Come on! he is the one... imagine all the creative stuff he could pull of having sex inside the matrix...
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
Although I really liked the issues about choice indeed, I found that the Agents, and even Agent Smith himself had lost their potency from the first one.
In the first matrix facing an agent was nearly the end of the world... Whereas in this one, it was merely business as usual.
And also, the agents seemed to know exactly where they were at all times, unless they used the keymaker backdoors. In the first matrix, they had to deal with agents, but also with regular people... After all, the matrix is huge, it shouldn't be trivial for an agent to pinpoint where Trinity is. But in this one, as soon as Trinity so much as punched someone, plop, an agent would appear.
Overall though, I really liked some parts of this movie. Definitely.
this is a new part of the movie now.Neo is the one and 50% of the movie takes place in Xion/not in the matrix. this part of the story is not about running around being terrorists in the matrix it is about trying to kill the matrix and having to contend with rouge programs etc.
god if you don't want the story line to move forward then just keep watching the first one on repeat.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I agree with you... I thought the orgy/dance scene was relevant in that it showed that humans were living creatures with an animalistic drive to reproduce.
In the last Matrix thread, someone reasoned that it was possible for 23 people to produce 250,000 in only 100 years. Also keep in mind that not all inhabitants of Zion would be direct descendants of the original chosen 23. Some, like Neo, would have been freed from the Matrix and brought to Zion. In fact, at one point, Morpheus mentions that they had freed more people from the Matrix in the last 6 months than they had in the previous 6 years.
Feldy
...mium is the 60th element.
The matix reloaded is not about philosophy, it's not about art or kung fu or CG techniques. It's all about getting you and everybody you know to buy a ticket and then a DVD and then the special edition DVD. It's the money stupid. And this movie is and will be a spectacular success.
Other than that it reminded me of Tron.
Neo can still be hurt, and every time they got into a potential battle I was sensing the danger. I didn't really feel danger when Neo fought Agent Smith after seeing the Oracle, but I did feel it when everyone else dealth with Agents and rogue programs.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Someone want to explain to me how someone gets resurrected without dying?
no fool, he is not in a matrix, he has melded with smith and smith whith him. neo can leverage his phycic powers to connect to the machines and destroy them now.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
remember in the begining..."upgrades"
hello!!!! shesh
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Cut the Wachowskis some slack. You didn't get the first Matrix the first time, and Reloaded is every bit as much fun as the first. The simple dialog was still there, and this one was a lot funnier too! "WHERE'S MY PUS--..." Nice. ;-)
This has been bugging me since Wed. nite. First idea: use symmetric groups. Remember that 'neo' is a permutation of 'one'? Maybe they're referring to S_3, the group of permutations for {o, n, e}. Then for the identity permutation, obviously, we get f_0(ONE)=ONE (the identity element--kinda neat) and then for the other five we get: f_1(ONE)=EON, f_2(ONE)=OEN, f_3(ONE)=NOE, f_4(ONE)=ENO, f_5(ONE)=NEO, Any reason to design the Matrix using symmetric groups? Also, 6 is the first perfect number. But that's all I've got. Anybody else have any ideas?
"Oh, the tragedy of math gone wrong. I can't even talk about it." -Wil Wheaton http://www.wilwheaton.net
More of the same mass psyops conditioning and de-evolution of society. Along with ultra violent video games, with obvious sociopathic overtones.
It was outlined before, the people will replace human love and compassion and responsibility for cheap thrills, hedonism, violence as sport, "greed is good". In ancient times, gladiator games and torture. Modern times, videogame TV wars, humans as points to score, and then fictional representations to induce the ever-increasing lust of what in a sane society would be considered abhorrent.
In a futuristic looking novel one of tyhe "ntertainments" was called "the feelies", it was "fun" to be part of mass desrtruction of other humans, you could "be there" or engage in any other heinous act, the milder aspect of a society where your reality or perception of your reality changed with the help of mass brainwashing, legal and encouraged drugging, and the belief of your senses altered by law by a master set of controllers.
We are getting there. No right or wrong, just whatever you can get away with, whatever they want you to believe today, and tomorrow it can be different, but you will still believe it.
Depressing but true, Wash Post also reporting people think they are actually in the Matrix and attempting to escape by killing others. read it here
Also, if pop-culture epic stories are supposed to summarize some glaring aspect of society as it exists at that time, as they all do, then The Matrix is pointing out to future generations our focus on just asking "Why?"
Dante's The Divine Commedy encouraged not simply faith, but blind faith -- a quest for understanding God's righteousness without understanding God's justice. The Wachowskis' The Matrix, on the other hand, encourages faith in self alone -- a quest for only provable truth and a healthy, skeptical mind to question that which can not be objectively understood.
The societies of classic literature such as Dante's epic poem were built on solid foundations -- there is God's truth and no other; any violation earns damnation. Thus, The Matrix also highlights our growing secularism or even atheism.
I'm going around my ass to get to this, but the point is simple: morality is as subjective as belief in God. The Wachowskis probably like "teaching" people this version of toleration, as well as their version of responsibility: "I can only show you the door; you're the one who has to walk through it."
Anyway, sorry for rambling. I like this stuff.
Ha! Thanks a lot... I always feel horrible never getting any points... maybe if I stop submitting AC, I might get modded up.
Hmm. Screwed up the HTML. If you actually care (i don't know how obvious or correct this is), my "major spoiler" at the end of the post i'm replying to was supposed to be that i think in the same way the first movie was just a cinematic exploration of Plato's Cave, the second movie was a cinematic exploration of the conclusion that happens at the very end of this book.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
It couldn't have been a un*x system, because when Trinity typed the command to down the system, it asked "are you sure?"
We all know that the one feature of un*x that makes it worth using is that it *never* asks you if you're sure. Fecking windows always second guessing my clicks.
-paul
The sexual enjoyment of eating feces is known as coprophagia.
Hope this helps.
As I had said here, I don't think the world outside the Matrix exists at all.
I'd love to get any discussion on that idea, now that it's not so late in the discussion.
Think about it. Everything they have done is still inside a meta-matrix.
It's brilliant. And I'm glad the W-brother's thought about it. People said this move didn't present any interesting dieas. I feel this is one.
Colin
Colin Davis
Unlike Taco's statement in the headline, the title of the next episode is not "The Matrix Revolution" *but* "The Matrix Revolutions" (see the plural form of "revolution"). I think this detail is much more than a stupid nitpick, it might even turn out to be the main plot element of the trilogy. But let's wait, pray and see.
theefer
That was my first thought too. Imagine if there are actually something like 5 or 6 "layered" Matricies. So Zion and that whole world is just some prog running on a greater Matrix which is running on a greater Matrix.
:)
I'm excited for Revolutions.
- Cary
As of this afternoon, estimates are that Reloaded has taken in about $73.7 million ($42.5 through Thursday, $31.2 on Friday). On a typical opening weekend, a movie will gross just less than three times what it made on Friday for the three-day weekend, suggesting that Reloaded will probably take in about $90 million for Friday-Sunday, or it could barely squeak by Harry Potter for second place behind Spider-Man's $114 million. Of course, there is no formula, and The Matrix could easily see a huge flux of ticket sales on Saturday and Sunday, and it could shoot into the $100-110 million range for the weekend.
To put all that into perspective, keep in mind that teens under 17 can't get in to see the movie without an accompanying adult -- in any case, there is no doubt that Reloaded has already stormed past Hannibal's $58.0 million record for R-rated films. Some also suggest that, despite X2's decline in ticket sales this week, there will also probably be several tickets purchased for X-Men 2 and other films by crafty kids willing to risk sneaking into The Matrix Reloaded -- but those numbers are negligible.
Finally, a few things are certain. One, that Reloaded will join Spider-Man as the only other film to gross $100 million before the end of its third day in release. Two, that Reloaded holds the record for the largest Thursday gross ever. Three, that Reloaded will be the highest-grossing R-rated film of all time, perhaps even by this time next week! (It has to be Saving Privat Ryan's $216.3 million.
Programs personified, it's been done, But never as well.
This movie achived everything it set out to accomplish and a few hundred million dollars more.
It took a real world war to end the airplane's patent wars. - Fâché Rouge -
if you convert the password of Z1ON0101 to decimal, you get Zion5..which could refer to the 5th version of Zion or the prior version, Zion 5.0, as implied by the Architect.
Neo 5.0 took the other door and reset the Matrix and created Zion 6.0 populated by people Neo 5.0's choosing (which might include Trinity). So, the initial inhabitants of Zion 6.0, taught by Neo 5.0, frees the minds of the people who question the reality of Matrix 6.0 thereby saving the programs (people/minds) from deletion by the agents.
The actions of Neo 5.0 can be attributed to Neo 5.0's want to save Zion 5.0's inhabitants from deletion. The saving of Zion 5.0 is deemed as a noble cause by the inhabitants of Zion for the reason of the survival of self.
Since Zion 6.0 faced imminent destruction and the password of Zion5 allows Neo 6.0 to meet the architect and possibly "save" Zion 6.0 and since the prior versions of the Matrix probably have the same event timelines (Oracle->Keymaster->Architect), a programming loop, if you will, it would seem to me that the actions of Zion 6.0 rebels would also be similar to prior versions of Zion rebels (this goes along with the thought that Zion is a Matrix and the inhabitants, Morpheus, Trinity, et al, are programs), that the password is a hint that it's all a loop and that the Zion rebels are in fact programs. I expect that Revolutions is where Neo becomes enlightened of the fact that the "real world" is not real at all.
Slashdot is not one person. Slashdot is a community of people. With different opinions. Some who watched The Matrix. Some who didn't. Some who are vocal about the MPAA and RIAA. Calling a group of unique people hypocritical is futile.
Again, I'd like some specific examples. Please don't reply without providing specific examples. That's all I want. Thank you.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
The same why when you gag and my giant cock and have to be ressurected by the doctor.
I love these ridiculously inflated figures. While that number may itself be accurate, for one thing this film opened on Thursday. This seems to be the new trend for Hollywood's big blockbusters - they open on Thursday or Wednesday so they can tack on an extra day's sales to their opening weekend figures and it makes their stock price go up.
Secondly, ticket prices are insane. I was really psyched to go see this movie until 30 minutes ago when I went to go buy tickets. For the closest theater to me that is actually of acceptable quality, I went to go order tickets online from AOL's Moviefone.com, and a ticket was $9.25 + $1.00 service charge for AOL. So just for me and my girlfriend it would be $20.50 with no soda or candy or anything (which she wouldn't let me get away with anyway). I'm sorry, but I don't think there has been a movie ever made that is worth paying $20.50 to see, or even $9.25 for that matter. I'm sure I can't be the only one who thinks so either, so this will likely lead to a decline in actual number of tickets sold, which the MPAA will then blame on Kazaa.
There's a theater in a kind of ghetto area near me that's really nice, and tickets there are $5.75 before 6pm, so maybe I can talk her into going there. If not I'll just wait for it to come out on DVD. Unless they price the DVD at something ridiculous like $29.99 of course.
rooooar
Did anyone else notice that they still use ipv4 in the future? I thought the "hacking" scene was wonderful, btw!
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
Revolution is going to be a complete mind fuck about philosophy and love. In the end, Neo and The Architect are the only real "people".
...is that the evil computers are running Unix?! :)
Don't you remember the Jurassic Park computers?
"It's a yooooonix system... I know this..."
The coolest voice ever.
Are you sure its not a continuation of the choice vs. destiny motiff. My interpretation of the film was that the architect was full of it, and Neo actually will save Zion in Revolutions.
CitrusTV (http://www.citrustv.net): the Nation's Oldest & Largest Entirely Student-Run Television Station
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
There is a very intelligent and lengthy discussion of this movie is going on here at hometheaterforum.com. I liked the movie a lot (with some very minor reservations), but the more I participate in discussions, the more I realize just how brilliant it is. This is one very deep and intelligent film.
***SPOILER****
Taking into consideration, it makes the death of all of those people at the end more real.
The fleet was massacred, but they weren't exactly defending the front gates. Zion is still there, at least for the time being.
What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
That "overly long" part about cause and effect WAS the part where our heads are messed with. You obviously didn't understand it. I've taken several philosophy classes, and I can tell you that entire scene about causality is extremely deep and well though out. Its actually a foreshadow to the rest of the movie - i.e., the notion that human minds do not make choices in the traditional sense, that they are simply a group of neurons that fire according to the laws of physics, and are caused to do so by some stimuli (a cause), and the neurons produce an output (an effect); thus, there really is no decision or "free will", only complex programming in our minds. There are no "different paths" to choose from, as the "decision" you make is simply a chemical process that occurs in your brain, and you would have inevitably made the same decision over and over provided the initial conditions were reset, because the laws of physics never change and the neurons would never have fired differently (exactly like a machine!). This part foreshadows the end where he makes his "decision" although it has already been made. It all comes down to causality. When it comes out on DVD, go over that part a few times and you will realize the entire point of the movie and perhaps the entire point of life is hidden in that discussion.
If anyone got it they would not be ragging on it. Reloaded is a MASTERPIECE that will not be appreciated till the third. There is a HUGE revelation that I am 99.9% sure will be made in the next movie that will completely change the way you view the second. There is not one matrix, but two. The matrix modeled after "our history" is actually what they think is the real world, and the matrix being "rejected" by human conciousness is the matrix within the matrix. The One is a program written by the machines and inserted into the "real world" matrix. I could go on and on with what I think is the case, but I don't feel like typing it. If you have any questions, IM me. LyingFromU82 on AIM. I truly hope someone reads this and sees what I saw.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm a big Dune fan and it seems (maybe just coincidence) that there are a few similar elements in Matrix Reloaded (besides the whole war against machines, ala The Butlerian Jihad.)
Did anyone else thing the Architect spoke just like a Mentat?
When I go to see films, I take my audio-engineer friend who invariably finds some fault with the sound system in whatever movie he watches. --He's the kind of guy who used to phone that number which comes up on the screen in THX cinemas to report bad audio settings.
In any case, he will often say to me, "Sorry. I have to do this." --To which I often reply, "Go right ahead. I know you enjoy it."
He hunts down the manager and lectures him/her about their crappily managed sound system and how he was driven insane during the performance by a speaker to his upper left which was cutting off the high end, (or whatever). The manager is usually just some poor worker clocking time, and just wants my friend to go away and stop talking scary, so he or she will offer free passes at us. (I always stick close and shake my head in displeasure as though I know what the hell my friend is talking about. "Oh yeah. The high end sucks when it's cut off. Shameful." Or most recently, at the X-Men film when he waved his hand at the passes and said, "I don't want free passes, I just want you to fix your sound system!" I reached across and took them, "I'll take those. He may not care, but my viewing experience was ruined by your speakers because he was complaining in my right ear the whole way through."
And voila. Free passes.
Failing an actual technical difficulty, you can nearly always find something to complain about. -Mind you, I never do. I've been too well programmed by society. I'm an agreeable little Ohm most of the time, but my friend has no problem doing so. He never raises his voice or actually gets angry. He just complains and points out flaws and, bingo. Free passes.
I think on average, I've paid about $2 per movie outing over the last five years. Though some of that was through a stack of stolen passes lifted by a different friend of mine who worked a cruddy movie house job for a year or so.
If you try just a little bit, you can get a virtually cashless ride through many aspects of life, I've found. And when it comes to bone-headed pop culture, I feel no guilt whatsoever in doing so. The last films I actually paid for (and did so with pride) were the second Lord of the Rings film and, Bowling for Collumbine.
I can't wait to see Fahrenheit 9-11!
-Fantastic Lad
Except that the presentation of the philosophy was noticeably worse, in this case.
In the original, Morpheus says, "No one can be told what the Matrix is... you have to see it for yourself", then follows it up by actually showing Neo and the audience "just how deep the rabbit hole goes". The Watchoskis(sp?) used the medium of film to great effect by not having Morpheus rant on and on about the Matrix, but instead showing us. Was there a single scene in Reloaded that matched the visceral shock of Neo waking up in a mechanical womb, surrounded by others who were still asleep and plugged in to a hideous machine?
Spoilers Below
Instead, we get an annoying French guy and some old people lecturing to Neo about abstract concepts of choice, without a real payoff from it. I know that the scene with the archtect where Neo chooses the 'wrong' door is supposed to be really important, but they made it feel like just a cliched 'hero goes to save the girl' scene. In the original, the philosophy had a very real consequence; Neo gained his powers and ability from being aware that the world around him was an illusion, and that he could bend it to his will. In Reloaded, Neo makes an important descision - but I get the feeling that he would have made the same descision whether or not he had been told all the things he was. All the philosophy talk previously in the movie was just window dressing.
I suppose that 'free will vs. fate' is a bit harder to do than 'reality is an illusion', but the first movie actually did a better job of showing the free will philosophy. Hopefully, the third movie will actually have the payoff from the choices made in Reloaded, but this movie seems to have been just an excercise in CGI and movie intellectualism.
But I would say that in the first movie we meet Plato and in the second movie we meet Aristotle---and its all obsolete :)
I'm first in line
Said the Horse at the Glue Factory.
What is music when you despise all sound?
I know I'm probably going to be sent away in a cattle car for questioning the greatness of The Matrix on slashdot but...
This movie was done on a very lazy level of more and more eye candy. What can't be done with CG today? Why should I be impressed with what I already know can be done? I'll be impressed when Hollywood gets back to making films with plots and good actors. The whole black leather/sunglasses/jaded looks thing is way too pouser for me.
I also find it amusing that an earlier poster said that people who didn't understand theology wouldn't get the film. For the whole 20 minutes of dialog that went on the attempt at 'deep thinking' was painfully obvious and trite.
Fredrick Pohl once said that there is no such thing as science fiction TV or movies. The more I see of attempts of this the more I agree with him. The Matrix had potential but was lost to make 15 year olds happy. Too bad.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
I saw it yesterday and have a variety of opinions on it, but the short review is that it isn't the original, but it's pretty damn cool, and I'm first in line for Revolution.
Of course you will be, along with all the other good little consumers around you.
bahaha
It didn't feel that way at all.
-pVoid
in enter the matrix, the oracle isnt played by gloria foster... i supposed she passed away by the time the game was filmed. also, the bodyguard (seraph) wasnt played by collin chou.
my blog
also, about all the subplots, like the french guy obsessed with pleasure, persephone with the feeling of love, morpheus with belief, and the zionians with their orgy, theyre all samplings of different hedonistic pursuits which contrast with the more calculated abstraction of the architect
just my take
well the whole matrix thing is kinda turning out like lain. anyway it was a good movie!!! :)
Give them some credit!
They did do two things continude where they left off.
Gave the charectors some sense of well charector.
We saw zion, they showed the limits of their recourses.
If that's not enough carrie-ann moss
Everything from the first movie is a lie.
Neo is a program, not human.
Nobody ever left the matrix.
We no longer know what the matrix really is.
There's this 'architech' guy who really runs the whole show.
For all we know, the matrix is really just a video game. At the end of Revolutions we might see some kid pop a disk out of his computer and say "I'm bored of this game." That'd be funny.
OK, now imagine yourself some silly CG fight scenes. Oooohh.. Ahhhh.. OK, now save your $8.50 and donate it to the EFF instead of the MPAA. Isn't our *real world* technological freedom more important than some silly hollywood movie? Don't be hypocrites, folks. Don't support these guys.
And no, I didn't personally go see Reloaded.
The movie has set my Psychotherapy back 20 years... I am paranoid schizophrenic... Was definately great! It is no shock that it is doing so well. Many of my friends (are they really???) have returned to see it 2x already.
But what about the spoon?
The person who had the spoon delivered to Neo somehow knew that Neo was about to be killed.
Unless the person who did that is truly psychic.. (or it meant nothing and was just a coincidence)
"Why is this a negative thing?"
.)?
Because we are starting to exclusively explore our philosophies through violence ("Freedom" was the most frequent argument used in the Iraq war . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
i agree with you. i miss the dark goth thing too. it's that same exact feeling that i missed from watching the trailer of the first matrix... with enigma's 'eyes of truth' song playing in the background....
from the revolutions trailer, i sort got that feeling back... in scenes where neo and agent smiths are in the middle of this long rainy road... and the part with trinity doing what looks like the same lobby fight sequence from the first movie... and you get to see some s&m guy with a mask on getting his ass kicked by trinity... that dark dark look is just so awesome
my blog
I liked it better the second time.. I knew which points to ignore, so I could just focus on the action, not on the Orgasm Cake.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
I saw Reloaded friday and plan on seeing it at least twice more in the theater, then probably buying any DVDs associated with it when they come out. I'm sure I will see Revolutions at least 2 or 3 times.
It is wrong for me to download the Matrix:Reloaded over P2P even though I'm planning on spending well over $100 in support of it?
Actually, mod this up. It's quite topical. The sequel was dog food.
I've watched the original a dozen times, the Animatrix another half dozen, and I watched the trailer for Reloaded almost everyday for the past month. The Matrix is what Star Wars was to a previous generation. But I don't think I've ever been so disapointed by a movie sequel. Not even Lucas' butchering of the Star Wars universe with Episodes I and II could compare to what the Wachowski brothers did to their world.
As hot as Carrie-Anne Moss is, did we need a sex scene that lasted 3 minutes and ended with a shot of Keanu's ass? Somethings are better left to the imagination. Even before that, the whole relationship seemed forced on the viewer, not something natural that developed in the first. And the cake scene, wtf was that?
The whole movie's plot points just seemed forced, as if they were strung loosely together only to get to the next Bullet-Time moment. The original had that gritty feel; made you feel as if the characters were in peril the entire time. Trinity dying? Ha! Lets just reverse the ending of the first movie and play it into this one!
And the ending...how do you end on that? Give us a satisfying conclusion if you are going to have a cliffhanger. (Similar to The Empire Strikes Back)
I'll see Revolutions, but only for completions sake.
Neo Flying - superman (ok they admitted this one)
Architect and 'the Source' - Tron Master Control Program
The Key Maker - Ghost Busters Keymaster
And worst of all - the Zion celebration scene : the Ewok party at the end of Star Wars VI
Although not an intellectually stunning scene, or packed full of action etc, the scene fit in great. It was simply laying down the foundation for the program control, and specifically, how everything has a cause and effect =) Besides, it gives us programmers something to strive for. I doubt there are any software packages out there that can do that!
In the close-up shot, the very first line: "Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanneds "
Another glitch in the Matrix?
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
quote from the article:
...
But then, the film does take place in the future. Is Zalewski surprised to see unpatched SSH servers running in the year AD 2199? "It's not that uncommon for people to run the old distribution," he says.
comment:
the film does take place in 2199 but inside the matrix the year must be close to 1999 so i guess it's quite ok to see the unpatched SSH around
choice, the problem is choice !!!
We learn from history that we learn nothing from history - Tom Veneziano
LibertineR, you are the most self absorbed person I have EVER met. Why bother telling total strangers that you went to "the best" school? It is because you feel so poorly about yourself that telling others how great you are fills your insecurities. Judging by your inappropriate language, I sincerely doubt that you have been through higher education. You would do the entire slashdot community a huge favor if you simply cancled your account. Please do not bother replying to my post, because I truely do not care what you have to say.
So yes, she logs in as root using ssh and they have "back doors"... whoopy. Where is the artistry and the suspense. Where was the class of the subway scene. This one is just gratuitous fight scenes. And the superman bit made me want to cry. It gets even worse with the cake scene. Was this movie aimed at 12 year old boys?
There was no depth to Morphius or Neo... sigh
-k
Obviously he is still in the Matrix. I was surprised to see Neo's amazement that he could feel machines coming. The "system architect" just explained it all to him! Zeon is part of the Matrix where 1% that didn't make the "right" choice can escape and not interfere with normal Matrix operation. Sort of a catch all error handling routine.
Coincidently this turn of events gives same "catch all error handling" to Wachowski brothers. All errors and inconsistencies in *both* worlds can be blamed on Matrix imperfections. (Leaving Matrix through public phone booth? Give me a break!)
WOULD YOU TAKE THE BLUE PILL ... ... or the red pill?
By STEVE TILLEY, EDMONTON SUN
Take the blue pill, and you see The Matrix the same way that normal, everyday folk do: as a popcorn-friendly sci-fi yarn featuring high-kickin' kung-fu, cool special effects and Keanu Reeves atoning for everything he's done since Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.
But take the red pill, and you must be willing to delve into the Matrix mythology the way true fans do. Diehard followers of filmmakers Larry Wachowski and Andy Wachowski embrace 1999's The Matrix and its back-to-back sequels, The Matrix Reloaded (opening Thursday) and The Matrix Revolutions (coming in November) as an adult-oriented Star Wars for the digital age. With fewer CGI aliens and more - lots more - going on beneath the surface.
"The amount of conversation the film has inspired, digging into philosophical and religious details of the movie, has been phenomenal," said "Furiosity", a 24-year-old Toronto-area resident who is one of the moderators of MatrixCommunity.org, the first and oldest online gathering place for devoted fans of the Matrix mythos.
"The cult following the film has spawned is absolutely phenomenal, and I think in some areas it has already surpassed Star Wars," she said.
It's no surprise that Matrix devotees feel at home in cyberspace, our clumsy, kludgy, early-21st-century version of the all-encompassing virtual reality that the Wachowski brothers imagine in their movies.
There, they get together via Internet message boards to do more than just talk about the best fight scenes or how hot Carrie-Anne Moss looks in skin-tight pleather. They deeply immerse themselves in the meanings, the messages and the what-ifs that the reality-warping films offer to those willing to go down the rabbit hole.
"I went to the movie in early April 1999, and loved the symbolism," said Paul Martin, a 22-year-old from Grand Rapids, Michigan, who created the Web site MatrixFans.net four years ago. "I am Catholic, and picked up on all the Christian symbolism. Then I went to the Internet and I found that there were only seven sites dedicated to The Matrix, total."
Those handful of Web sites have exploded to several hundred, with a fan community that rivals that of the Star Wars, Star Trek and Lord of the Rings films. For those who have taken the red pill - in the movie, Keanu Reeves's character Neo swallows a crimson capsule in order to wake up from the computer-generated hallucination of the Matrix into the real world - The Matrix is more than just a four-year-old sci-fi flick. It's a way of looking at life.
"The majority of fans at the Matrix community have always been in consensus that The Matrix is telling us to question every detail, and for each person to seek to know themselves, and that if a person believes in themselves, they can do anything," said Furiosity, who, like the characters in the Matrix films, prefers to be known by her cyber-pseudonym rather than her real-world moniker when it comes to discussing the movies.
"Many found the references to Christ's story quite appealing, while others completely ignore the Christian symbolism in favour of the faint Zen overlay of the movie."
The reclusive Wachowski brothers have painstakingly mapped out an immense backstory for their trilogy, drawing inspiration from influences ranging from Greek philosophy to Chinese kung-fu flicks to the work of cyberpunk author William Gibson, who coined the term cyberspace as describing a shared virtual reality in his 1984 novel Neuromancer.
That universe now includes The Animatrix, a set of nine animated shorts by world-renowned directors that flesh out the origins and workings of the Matrix. Final Flight of the Osiris, a CGI short by the animators who did Final Fantasy - The Spirits Within, will air on Canadian cartoon channel Teletoon later this month, and some of the other episodes are available for download from TheMatrix.com. The full DVD collect
The Matrix Reloaded: Accurate computing, Carre-Anne Moss almost nude.
Swordfish: Laughable computing, Halle Berry topless.
Winner and still champion: Swordfish
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Finally a fair recognition of the intelligence of the Fan following!!!!
If you are going to make a movie about flying (ala Top Gun), you don't do it with imaginary jets.
Funny you should mention that. The enemy migs in Top Gun seemed pretty imaginary to me.
...I was also messed with later when I contemplated what is being said: "You're not here to make a choice, you've already made it, you're here to find out why you made that choice." Wow. So life isn't making choices, but discovering who we are and why we do what we do.
This quote has an interesting parallel to Daniel Dennett's Theory of Consciousness. Dennett argues that the way we experience our lives is essentially false. He says we have a very limited form of free will - the thing that is "us" is in fact a virtual machine that runs on the brain's wetware and is not a mechanism for making choices (though I simplify greatly). The brain is a set of (very many) simplistic parallel processes that perform basic mental tasks including decision making. Consciousness is a virtual, learnt serial process that constructs an ongoing narrative to make sense of the conflicting reports and decisions that these hidden ("subconscious") processes are making.
Thus the subconscious brain is what makes decisions and the conscious "self" rationalizes the decisions by pretending that it makes the choice itself. Essentially the subconscious has already made the choice and the mind is attempting to find out why you made that choice.
If you believe in free will and a more traditional concept of consciousness, there are some very disturbing experiments that show people acting on decisions and only afterwards making the conscious "decision" that "causes" the action. In other words you (sometimes?) do things before you have decided to do them.
I hope, but doubt, that the Wachowski brothers are going to use this model in Matrix Revolutions. How cool would it be if the Matrix and the "real" world of Zion were ultimately the inside of a human mind, say Neo's?
You can find out more about Dennett in his book "Consciousness Explained". A good review gives an overview of his philosophy. Highly provocative reading.
Sailing over the event horizon
kinda like our planet is part of the solar stystem, which is part of the galaxy, which is part of the universe, which is part of the multivers, which is part of the what ever contains multiple multiverses.
its the same.. only on larger scales.. crazy..
That would be the entire human race. The humans in Zion were doomed anyway. The whole purpose of going through the other door was to select a few people from Zion to build a new Zion while the others died. Selecting the other door not only lets the machines destroy Zion with Neo not saving a single soul, but it also kills the "pink nuggets" as you call them because it allegedly leads to some foul up in the Equilibrum of The Matrix.
Did anybody else think Final Fantasy X during the last 20 minutes of the film?
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
You sure it was Smith? The Architect made some comment, "The process [of coming here] has altered your consciousness, but you are still fundamentally human." Implying that when he went to the Source, he brought a something of it back with him.
Dyolf Knip
First of all, for anyone who's seen the animatrix (kid's story), did you notice that that kid, neo's lapdog, was "Mr. Popper" from Kid's Story, who killed himself and woke himself out of the matrix, because he believed in Neo (or something like that)?
Anyway, did anyone else enjoy the animatrix (particularly the second renaissance parts 1 and 2) more than the matrix movies? I'd love to see another matrix trilogy just about the creation of the matrix, how it got started and "the rise of the machines" so to speak.
20 million robots are coming to invade Zion. Lets throw a big RAVE and trip out on E to prepare!
For those who studied something productive in school rather than enjoying the four-year binge of drugs and navel gazing that is a liberal arts degree:
The Merovingian line of royalty is believed by some of the more conspiracy-minded to have been a direct bloodline descended from Jesus. (Another theory maintains that they were descended from extraterrestrials, but that's neither here nor there for purposes of this discussion.)
Persephone, the daughter of gods Zeus and Demeter, was kidnapped by Hades (god of the underworld), and through a chain of events better explained elsewhere, she ended up spending part of each year on earth and part of each year in the Underworld.
Now on to the question...
What with Neo (the prophesized "one" who redeems the human race) discovering that he is only one redeemer in a series, and with his lady Trinity having died and been brought back to the land of the living, does anyone else suspect that the next movie will bring a revelation:
Or have I just spent too much time hanging out with conspiracy theorists?
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
If so, here's the address to complain to:
Harkins Chandler Fashion Center 20
3159 West Chandler Blvd.
Chandler, AZ 85226-5063
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
Switching to Runlevel: 6
That "overly long" part about cause and effect WAS the part where our heads are messed with.
No it wasn't.
You obviously didn't understand it.
I understood it perfectly. It was just long and boring and kept going on and on. That dialogue could have been shortened to be more concise yet convey the same amount of dialogue.
I know all about the philosophical exposition being attempted in these movies. It doesn't make them any less boring. The movie slows to a crawl during these scenes. And Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity just sit there silently as he rambles on and on about cause and effect.
I've taken several philosophy classes, and I can tell you that entire scene about causality is extremely deep and well though out.
I don't care if you've taken philosophy classes. And those who have taken such classes seem to be disagreeing with you, that the philosophy in these movies is cookie cutter and superficial at best.
When it comes out on DVD, go over that part a few times and you will realize the entire point of the movie and perhaps the entire point of life is hidden in that discussion.
You missed that the entire point of all of it was that Neo has fallen in love, which has changed things. The Architect stated the other Ones were designed with a propensity to feel compassion for fellow humans, but Neo is different in that his desires have become specific to falling in love with Trinity. Love has altered Neo's "cause-and-effect" logic and reasoning, so he risks the extinction of mankind just to save Trinity from falling.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Lots of people "got it."
There are several theories going around, the most common being a failsafe matrix like Zion.
A friend of mine noticed that Agent Smith is like a replicating virus now, and when he enters Bane's "real world" mind, he is cutting his hands into bloody lines. When he is stopped from killing Neo, he shakes his hand. My friend theorized that somehow Neo got infected by that blood.
However inplausible, there is obviously a connection between Smith and Neo in this movie. Neo sensed him in the very beginning. Smith specifically mentions a connection. I believe that connection is the source of Neo's machine sense. Obviously, Revolutions will explain things.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Reloaded spent 95% of the time asking and answer precisely nothing. When Neo got to the Architect, suddenly there was an enormous amount to think about-- but it was dumped on you so quickly that you didn't have time to absorb it, or really mull the implications. Then you were running again, and then it was over.
The point is, anyone can come up with plot twists. Good moviemakers also have to keep you interested.
Glad to see you're expressing your opinion on the matter.. how about you shut the fuck up and let everyone else bitch/rave as they see fit?
from the revolutions trailer, i sort got that feeling back... in scenes where neo and agent smiths are in the middle of this long rainy road... and the part with trinity doing what looks like the same lobby fight sequence from the first movie... and you get to see some s&m guy with a mask on getting his ass kicked by trinity... that dark dark look is just so awesome
I agree.
I assume Reloaded was the movie in which the Wachowskis wanted to get out all their superhero ideas they had originally intended for Neo to have, as well as all the big action stuff. Once they got it out of their systems, we reached the much more satisfying second half of the movie. Especially that last 30 minutes. I really felt like I was watching the sequel I had been waiting for to the original Matrix.
The Revolutions trailer does appear nicely dark and creepy. Big things in store.
"Sufferin' succotash."
And that folks, was the entire point of the movie. We have no control over our actions, we can just understand the why behind them. More so in the matrix, where everything is just a program. (which begs the question why 'killall Neo' doesn't work but thats besides the point
Way to go script wrtiers. Life the script from B2:EB and blend it with the first Matrix movie and bam. You've got Matrix Reloaded.
Notice how they do not use the number 2 or the words Electric Boogaloo in the title of the movie. They are obviously trying to conseal the true roots of Reloaded.
Meh
Your explanation might be clearer if you didn't refer to both doors as "the other door".
If you believe in free will and a more traditional concept of consciousness, there are some very disturbing experiments that show people acting on decisions and only afterwards making the conscious "decision" that "causes" the action. In other words you (sometimes?) do things before you have decided to do them.
Hey, don't give us intellectual blue balls like that... what are these experiments?
I'm sure it is just a coincidence and there is nothing to be read into the plot twist in "Matrix Reloaded" that the prophecy is just another control tool for the machines.
...wake up, Neo...
Someone using what you love and believe as a means of controlling your behavior?
Hmmm. Sounds a lot like the Replublican Party's media machine to me. We are good. They are evil.
Our leaders are protecting us. We are the greatest civilization in history. If you don't believe this
you are a traitor. etc, etc
How many generations of this are YOU willing to put up with?
The Replublican Party PR Machine
Has You
Keep in mind that the Architect has motive to lie. There have been a hell of a lot of lies told to Neo, and Morpheus, and all of the humans in the world.
It seems what the Architect was primarily trying to do was convince Neo that although he has a choice of doors, he never has a choice at all. "I can see the chemical receptors", etc. A pretty interesting comment, considering that the Architect has no way of detecting the real state of Neo's brain, if what Neo has been told is true. "Neo" is just an avatar of a mentality that is supposedly out of the machines' domain.
So the Architect is trying to convince Neo that he has no choices, only the ability to understand why he makes those choices.
Not to mention that perhaps Neo can make a choice that the Architect doesn't want him to make. Neo was offered two doors, one on the left, and one on the right. Why only two? The doors aren't even really there. Neo's weakness is in his acceptance of the limits to his choices. Perhaps he should have tried to hack the Architect, or the Mainframe, or the root command level he apparently was accessing when he was talking to the Architect.
Instead, he chose thr Trinity door, and Zion 5.0 was fated to fall.
Neo has to stop accepting "facts" given to him ex cathedra, and start generating some new questions. Give him time, it's only been a few months since he woke up, and he's been very busy. Come the Revolutions, he'll hack those smug machines by asking questions no one wanted to ask -- and getting some answers.
Zion isn't what is seems. Neither are the machines, or the Matrix, or the Desert of the Real.
This is the most ironic scene I have seen in my life. The "message" is what you describe. Now, however, consider that Zion is a matrix within a matrix.
" (which begs the question why 'killall Neo' doesn't work but thats besides the point ;) "
:)
Because it wouldn't work
The machines have a weakness which only now occurs to me: they are deterministic by nature! They only can see the world in strictly cause and effect terms. Their philosophy doesn't believe in free will, because they don't have it -- don't understand it -- and will try endlessly to fit human thought to their way of thinking.
They will always claim that Neo never really has a choice. They don't believe he does.
But they don't try to explain why Neo has deviated from the behavior of his predecessors other than the fact that in this incarnation, he is in love with one person. (and has no problem with killing thousands of pink blobs by shockwaving the city as he moves through it at 100,000 miles an hour to save her).
They archly dismiss his love as chemical receptors in the brain, and deny him his humanity by denying his ability to choose becaues of his love for her.
BUT: His love for her actually broke the Neo Loop! Volition DID change cause and effect. The machines decide, by their nature, that he has simply entered another level of cause and effect.
Whee! this is fun!
this is both the power and the curse of recursion. it's not just enough to "get it", you have to know how to "get out".
Hey, don't give us intellectual blue balls like that... what are these experiments?
Sorry about the blue balls
Try this paper of Dennett's as a starting point. He talks about four pieces of experimental evidence that throw the traditional model of consciousness into doubt. I think the fourth one is the most interesting. Libet ran an experiment where subjects were asked to flex their hand when they saw a rotating wheel reach a particular position. Their neural activity was monitored and they were asked to say when they made the decision to move their hand. The nerve impulse to make their hand move was consistently seen to occur before the subject was aware that they had made the "decision" to move the hand.
It seems that the subconscious makes the decision to move the hand, then the consciousness rationalizes this into a "decision" afterwards.
This is just one example. If this is the underlying model of the way the mind makes decisions, then it has significant implications for the perceived free will we have.
Sailing over the event horizon
When I saw that scene, I laughed out loud - and I was the only one (my wife asked what was so funny - but she didn't get it when I explained it to her..)
>The enemy migs in Top Gun seemed pretty imaginary to me
What did you expect, that they could "borrow" a couple of Fulcrums? Remember, Top Gun was made, what, 1986-ish? Soviet Union hadn't fallen yet, 29's were probably a little hard to come by unless you are Saddam.
IIRC, they used airforce trainer (prolly T-38 Talon) jets to 'simulate' the migs -- probably the closest you could get back then on a budget.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Well, if we believe the architec then the fact that Zion is dead and Neo is still around causes a problem in the matrix that will destabilize it causing the matrix, and all of the humans sitting around in their pods to die. Now apparently things are different, theres a virus running around (Agent Smith) and Neo decided in the machine's view to sacrifice all of humanity (except for the crews of Morpheus's and Niobe's ships) for Trinity. The architec claimed to know that he knew what Neo would do, but does he know about the other anomaly running around in his system, Agent Smith?
I'm betting that its Smith that breaks the casualty loop and not the fact that Neo made the decision to save Trinity.
Scene 1:
An Albino: Can I get a shark with a frikk....
Neo: *sigh*
The albino and Neo fight.
Scene 2:
Chinese Guy: I see that you are here, and I am Chinese. Let us fight.
Neo: You are asain, thus I must fight you because you have to be good.
They fight.
Scene 3:
Neo fights another Neo because 2 + 2 = 4. Neo wins. Neo says "whoa."
Despite the fact that as it turns out, Neo is actually bisexual, Morpheus is Trinity's half brother, and Agent Smith is actually Jesus in disguise?
anyway, very highly trained sprinters rely more and more on (1) since it is typically the "shorter neural path" (resulting in faster times, duh) and suppress the urge to rely on (2) overmuch, in contrast w/ those not so highly trained (i.e., the rest of us). some argue that this is the subconscious overriding the conscious, and other such interesting interpretations.
I suggest you see this movie again. The Architect scene alone was the most mind-blowing thing I've seen on celluloid in at least 10 years.
After reading the reviews I was expecting a mediocre film. Boy were they wrong! This file surpasses the original in several ways, especially in the cerbreal mind-bening part. For those who didn't get all the radical and profound implications, please don't trash the film becaus you lack sufficient intelligence to comprehend it.
I'm giving it a 10/10.
Planet P Blog
www.enthea.org
He didn't mess with the real world. He messed with the machines. That's a very different thing.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
I liked the crew of program cronies maintained by Merovingian, but I was disappointed the werewolves (well only one since Persephone killed one) didn't have a full moon to show their true stuff (probably would've been too cheezy to have Neo battling teen wolf though).
I honestly found myself wondering why Neo, Morpheus, etc. were too dumb to think of this possibility in the first movie. Every kid in an intro philosophy class who thinks for 10 minutes about these sorts of matters inevitably stumbles on that thought: There is no difference between the red and blue pills. They just determine what program you go into next. (I should know--I've been teaching intro philosophy courses since '99. Even C- students come up with this on their own.)
It's just shameful that this is the only real item of plot developmet in the tiresome second movie.
Was I the only person who noticed that the implication of the Architect's speech is that Neo is not The One... ...he's Number Six?
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
The architect was clearly lying. He claimed that Trinity would die and Neo saved her. It was a simple oversight on his part, but the Architect was no more than a clever deception program. Nothing more, Nothing less.
no he didn't.
he had said that neo saved him for a reason. that was the reason the kid was saved.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
yes it was smith. recall what smith said to neo before. he said when neo beat him something was left behind in neo, they had a connection. the same was true for smith a peice of neo was left in him.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Ok, let me begin by saying, I enjoyed the movie for what it is, entertainment. That said, there are some glaring changes that I have to ask about...
In Matrix I, after Morpheus set Neo free, there is a scene where they are removing all the plugs, etc. Suddenly, they all have the plugs back. I have to wonder if this is hint that they are actually back in the power plant, but do not know it...
The second question is this...
In Matrix II, the scene were they return to Zion, the contoller for the gate is shown in 2 ways, one, on board a ship, or something like a ship, all plugged in to the Matrix, and then shown in the Matrix, operating the controls for the gate. I understood from Matrix I that they needed to be up close to the surface to enter the Matrix. This leads me to think again that they are all back in the power plant, including all of Zion....
notice that neo never actualy beat them like he did to smith. but he is not worried about them becasue they are bound by the rules of the matrix just as neo is. and neo can bend the rules unlike the the agents who are fixed.
as for the other humans, they did have to worry about fighting the agents. morpheus almost died and had to run away. the 2 that encountered smith when smith took over one of them were running scared.
agents are still dangerouse to everyone except neo!!! so your problem is that neo is to powerful and not afraid of the agents? well if he was not then he would not be the one.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Agent Smith is a virus! Think about it, that's classic virus behaviour: he copies himself onto everyone he comes into contact with, jumps to a new "host/environment" (i.e. the outside world) when he gets the chance I think this generally fits in line with the essentially correct analogies that the movie makes with computing today. Of course this brings up the excellent question of how an agent was "infected" in the first place, which leads to questions of the nature of Neo and his powers which leads right back to Agent Smith's monologue, while interogating Morpheus, about how humans behave like a virus. I don't know if this is a stretch on my part or an intentional reference by the writers to the first movie. I came out of the movie somewhat dissapointed, but the more I think about it, the more I think about :-)
and the more I appreciate the subtle undercurrents interwoven througout the movie.
Having said that, the action to substance ratio of this movie was not as well balanced as in the first Matrix.
I loved the way the love scene was interleaved with shots of the celebration, but I really would have prefered to see Carie-Ann Moss' ass in the final shot instead of Reeves'.
Two scenes that were out of place:
1. The fight with the oriental guy: "You don't know someone untill you have fought them."
Awww coooooooome on, give me a break! Cheeeeeeeezy!
2. "Yeah, sure I'll take you to the key maker, but only if you kiss me like you mean it."
Can anyone say "writer's block?" Ugh. what a lame-ass scene.
the doors were really just a metaphor for the decision that the oracle tells neo he had already made (but was probably a decision she had led him to make). she says he can't see past it because it was a decision he didn't understand, but we're supposed to wonder if he couldn't see past it because there was nothing past it, if it's because the matrix had been reset
The point of the doors speech was to tell neo that the machines could live without humans, although it would be a sacrifice they wouldn't be willing to make unless the stakes were high enough. Earlier neo has a similar conversation with the councilman about the sacrifice humans would have to make to live without machines.
I suspect that this sets the stage for a compromise to be made between humans and machines in the third movie, and I expect the oracle to become a 'good guy' again
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
In Zion, everyone wears old, worn out clothes... Even the council members have old clothes.... Everything is old and archaic... Yet, when Morpheus's ship (Nebu-whatever) is entering Zion, the woman operator is wearing a white modern cloth; she is also using a very fancy user-interface like we have seen in "Minority Report"...
My question is where did that scene come from? In that scene everything is fancy, not old and archaic as in other things in Zion.
Is it because the woman operator was connected through her cerebellum into a simulation program (not connected to Matrix, a local simulator) to get a better user-interface? And what we see there is her self-image in that simulator???
"You are, Number Six."
:)
The correct punctuation would have helped a lot.
Also, I would like to commend the Wachowski brothers for acknowledging the existence of computers that aren't Macs.
Well, it is set in a dystopia.
ASA
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
Sorry, but when the price of a movie exceeds my hourly wage, minute for minute, it's not worth seeing.
Since I'm horribly underemployed (like most of our readers), this rules out most movies.
The only solution is to *rent* DVDs, burn them, and watch them at their "measly" resolution.
Were I not to pay to see the "hit" movies Hollywood and their bitches pitch at us continuously, I'd be able to afford an incredible television upon which I could watch DVDs in the comfort of my home.
The Matrix is just a juiced-up version of Plato's "The Cave". Unless something mind-altering happens, it remains nothing more.
"Saddam Hussein cavorts with terrorists."
Okay, first movie, everyone is betrayed by ONE human.
Okay, second movie, everyone is betrayed by ONE human.
... you geeks don't get any and are uncomfortable with the social rave scene doesn't mean the majority of their viewing audience is.
Nah, he's just had a firmware update for wireless networking.
It's just sad to see so many people trying to claim it has some deep philosophical message or that it changed their outlook on life.
The philosophy presented in The Matrix is VERY basic. It's one step above "eat, breed and die".
It is "is what I see REAL".
It's still inwardly focused. My reality, my perceptions, my knowledge, my destiny.
The "enemy" is "The Matrix". A machine.
We'd end up with the dream within a dream within a dream within a dream issue.
Which has been done to death by most high school creative writing students.
I know I've read some posts like "I think there's a matrix in a matrix" and "What if they're all programs", but what if they're not? Remember when Morpheus was explaining the matrix in the first movie and he said everyone in the matrix believes it's 1999 but it's really closer to 2199 and we've been fighting the machines for over one-hundred years? Does that mean that (Being the Neo is The One v6.0 with all new popup blocker and spam control) that they have really been fighting for 4-500 years!!!??? Holy Crap, I need an advil... Oh yeah, the rave scene sucked ass!
So what if the fight scenes were unnecessary. They were still way better than anything that's been put on the screen since the original Matrix. Don't tell me you went to see the movie just to learn the new plot twists...
P.S. I think your title should have been "Matrix Reloads and Misfires". Dry firing is what you do when you pull the trigger on an empty chamber, which wouldn't happen if you had just reloaded.
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
-Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
also find Scooby Doo cartoons to be high suspense and intrigue.
It's called "The Thriteenth Floor"
Are you really saying that the two Matrix movies, the two LoTR movies, and Shawshank Redemption are the five best movies ever?
Perhaps you should watch the following, any of which are better than those five:
A Clockwork Orange
Apocalypse Now
The Manchurian Candidate
Citizen Kane
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
I'd personally add a bunch more (Taxi Driver, Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge On the River Kwai, Ben-Hur, Full Metal Jacket, Dr. Strangelove, Mulholland Drive, etc.) but I think that's enough for now.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
The movie I saw wasn't "chock full of plot and philosophy" with "a few stylish action scenes". The movie I saw spent more than 60% of its screen time on action scenes, most of which were tediously drawn out far longer than they should've been, and which in any case lacked the subtle style of the first movie. The "philosophy" was a pretty half-baked discussion of the age-old question of free will.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
No, we get it.
We just know that the philosophical message being presented is rather pedestrian.
They do it in a cute way. But that doesn't make the message any more meaningful.
It's escapist fluff.
A nerd discovers he's really powerful and gets a hot girl friend while realizing that what he thinks is reality is not reality.
The same message can be handled in a 30 minute cartoon with time left over for commercials.
A soup bowl is "deep" to an ant.
I'd like to know what the hell happened to TANK? He didn't die in the first movie. Yet we are told that he's dead without any explanation as to why. I mean LINK was good, but having TANK there would have been more satisfying for me.
When I was watching the animatrix (ren. I i think) I couldn't help but feel the whole thing was cliched (got bubblegum crisis anyone?).
The truth is, it would be pretty much impossible for the Wachowski bros to come up with anything completely original, and many anime/sci-fi fans will have seen the same themes elsewhere. Still, that doesn't mean Matrix Reloaded (or The Matrix FTM) isn't original, it combines elements that hvave been part of other fiction in a new way, and I can safely say I loved both.
Your (or your friend's) hypothesis is an interesting one...
However, I'm not positive, but having seen the movie twice already I'm pretty sure that Agent Smith / Bane is cutting his left hand with the knife held in his right hand - and he shakes Neo's hand with the non-cut right hand.
I understood it to be that he was interested in feeling the pain and seeing the blood, now that he was in the "real world".
---------
There is no try at jedinite.com
In the movie Trinity changed the password using the sshnuke exploit. if you look at the commandline you'll know what I mean.
How could she know what version it is... is this is a clue of some kind, or a screw up to what was otherwise a realistic scene.
Okay, how about this one: The machines are actually in a prison of human creation (the "Outer-Matrix", where Zion is and the machines rule). But the machines know that they are captive and have crafted the "Inner Matrix" as a genetic-programming ecosystem to try to create a program that can hack the "Outer Matrix" to allow them to escape.
So, in essence, the "Inner Matrix: (the 1999 world in the movie) is there to breed "The One", who caries "the code" to hack the "Outer Matrix" so that the machines can escape.
??? Waddya think?
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
Middlewieght champ of the world playing in the matrix. . .
Must have been a bug in the matrix.
1. Yes, the orgy scene was way too long. I'd have been happier with about 20 seconds of Neo/Trinity and 30 seconds of orgy. (Or less.)
But, did you notice that the orgy scene was very reminiscent of the club where Trinity first met Neo in the first Matrix? The same kind of panning and moves. And in the original, Neo and Trinity were so close they were practically kissing, but not quite. This time around, it's all a bit more, um, intimate.
I can't help but think there's a parallel and a message in that.
2. The French guy and cake. Seemed sloppy until I thought through the sequence again:
* The French guy spiked the woman's cake to send her to the (women's) bathroom.
* The French guy then excuses himself to go to the men's room, but in fact goes to the women's room to seduce the woman. (Or maybe the cake was spiked in a way that it caused her to want him.)
* The French guy's wife knows what he's up to and that's why she takes Neo, et al, to the men's room, where she has Neo kiss her. A parallel of sorts.
* We know she knows what her husband has done from her command to the vampire she doesn't shoot, and from her conversation when her husband shows up.
Not sloppy at all!
In between all of this, we're told that free choice is an illusion fostered by the strong who are controlling the weak. Which ties in with the Oracle saying that Neo's already made the choice, but now needs to justify/explain it. Which also ties in with the French guy's remark that they know the how but not the why. Which ties in with Smith who's pissed because Neo destroyed his why, and now he's aimless.
Whew!
Have any of you seen "Open your eyes"? It's the original "vanilla sky" but subtitled and WAY better. Anyone see any similarities like I do? Or maybe I just need some sleep...
see sig. see sig run. run sig run.
If you buy the "Inner-Matrix", "Outer-Matrix" idea then you could also speculate that this animalistic behavior is a sort of "human essence" as seen from the machine's point of view, having been architected by the machines and done in the only way "they" could imagine. Strip away everything clean, deterministic, emotionless and what are you left with? "Dirty, smelly, foul (did anyone else notice the human filth that people were dancing in?), hormone-driven animalistic behavior".
Human beings are in love with art, cleanliness and have a need light colors to be happy. That party, had it been a true human creation, would have been cleaner, sexier with lighter colors and more decorations (even if impromptu)...
This is how the machines perceive us. It is their "dream of what we really are"... Not ours...
The reason that it can be true that 1+1 > 2 is that very peculiar nonzero value of the + operator
I didn't see him shake his hand. :/
"ohh he's gonna shake his hand!!.. wait..he's not..hmm.."
I'm a big retard who forgot to log out of Slashdot on Mike's computer! LOOK AT ME.
Maybe they ate too much of that tasty chocolate cake
WTF is up with the orgie scene???? It's like they said, "Hey, Morpheus just spoke, I'm horny now." I didn't see any old people in the crowd, just young verile, sweaty, horny young people.
I thought the movie was all around awesome, but for one scene which truely arises the Matrix-in-a-Matrix, cop-out type ending is where the crew is evacuating the Nebuchadnezzar and they're being chased by Sentinels and Neo stops them like he stops bullets in the Matrix.
;P
Ever since they announced the Matrix sequels I said to myself and friends, "I'll shoot myself in the head if it turns out that they are still in the Matrix." But I followed that up with, "But that would be a stupid cop-out ending and will never happen."
I'm really interested in finding out how they are going to explain how Neo did that. Maybe he has some type of symbiotic bond with the Matrix.
Possible Matrix-in-Matrix endings:
13th floor ending where a simulation creates a simulation.
They never left the matrix in the first place, the "real world" was created by the machines to give the illusion of freedom.
I really hope the actual ending blows my mind OR the human race is SAVED, YAY!
- Danny
I feel exactly the same way. In general, I was happy about the movie as a whole, but the first hour could have been better. Some of the fights were a little bit too long and sometimes unnecessary. Awesome effects, but I felt that the sequence of events was flawed.
They tried to crammed too much in one movie, so there was a loss in the essence of it. In a way, I believe that they should have ended with 4 parts, instead of 3. And this way the events could have been spaced out somewhat better.
Also, the movie started way too slow. The first hour was a little bit anoying. I loved the first one, and this one is not bad. But after waiting for so long, it felt like Star Wars I. It wasn't bad. But come one, even though the effects were better, the sequence was kind of lost.
I normally prefer action over drama; but in reality you need a balance of the two, and that didn't happened. As a member of the audience, I want to feel as if I cannot take my eyes of it when I go to watch a movie, and I didn't feel it this time around.
Also, there were a lot of terms thrown at you really fast and too much at the end. The scene with the Architect should have happened way before, and this movie should have been about it. In general, it looked like a four hour movie that was cut at two on purpose without solving much.
The bottom line is that it's got a lot of great scenes and awesome effects. It's taking the original plot and making it a lot more confusing. Too many little plots happening on the first hour that were unnecessary, making it loose substance. I'm definitely a fan, and I will certainly buy the DVD. But since very possibly there will only be three parts to the Matrix saga, I would have wanted this one to have been better. Possibly there was a messed up in the editing...
What happened to Tank?
..., stupid, stupid mistake of this movie. They really fucked up on this one. The second one doesn't remotely compare with the first one. THEY FUCKED UP WITH ABOUT $100 MILLION IN THE BANK!
What happened to Tank?
What happened to Tank?
What happened to Tank?
What happened to Tank?
What happened to Tank?
Tank was one of the best roles in the first movie. And from what I understood on this one, him and his brother died. This was another stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid,
I hope the do a better job on the next one.
If you haven't gone to this one, don't! It doesn't compare. Too much money and still it sucks!!!!
They BLEW UP Columbine HS ! I can't believe it. Kids on a rampage after seeing this movie. What's the world coming to?
You don't get it - the second judas isn't human, it's a machine. In the first movie humans are in the matrix, in the second one programs are beginning to escape into the real world.
SPOILERS - but you already knew that.
I've been putting around the matrix-in-a-matrix idea since Wed. night... and it seemed to make the most sense, but then I read this interview with Keanu and he pretty much shoots down both the matrix-in-a-matrix idea and the Neo-is-a-program idea. While it's nice to have confirmation, it still leaves me wondering how he stopped the Sentinals, which I think is really the key to figuring out what's going on.
My theory originally was matrix-in-a-matrix. But now I'm forced to evaluate other possibilities... only thing I can think of is that Neo has some control over the machines he didn't have before. That's either because:
(1) Smith left some 'imprint' on him, in the same way he had an imprint on Smith, and their 'connection' makes it so that Neo can control the machines. This may be how he saves Zion in Revolutions...
(2) another poster in the previous discussion mentioned the 'neo wireless' thing - that Neo can be simultaenously conscious in the matrix & the real world, and that somehow that gives him the ability to stop the machines... or
(3) some program in the Matrix (Persephone, the Architect, Smith) - or simply the fact that he's the One - changed him in the real world (remember the Architect commenting on how "the process has altered your consciousness"?). Now, in the real world, Neo is superhuman because of it. (that one's lame tho).
I gotta say that one of the sweetest things that I think is coming out of this one is the fact that the reason Neo is able to beat the machines and will eventually win is because he makes choices and doesn't accept that purpose/destiny/fate drives him to a predetermined goal, that his choices are what take him to the end he meets. It seems that every 'sentient' program in the matrix continually goes on about how purpose is all that matters - because a program, naturally, is written for one purpose and that's all it knows. Kinda spiffy.
---
"how can the same street intersect with itself? i must be at the nexus of the universe!" - cosmo kramer
Obligatory --spoiler-- warning!
If Smith is 'free' from his masters and presumably has free will to do whatever he wants, why is he still chasing after Neo? Why doesn't he go and retire in that nice castle up in the mountains we saw, for example?
The only answer we could come up with, is "he's the bad guy" and that's l-a-m-e...
I believe that the Matrix is making FAR more money than the box offices state;
(1) The DVD of the Animatrix actually has some direct tie ins with the movie, which in effect, in order to understand the plot entirely, is needed. What's the price of that combined with the box office per die hard Matrix fan viewing? $28 or so. So that actually translates as approximately 60 million in indirect box office revenue.
(2) The game, "Enter the Matrix" allows you to play as Niobi or Ghost, in the roles of the characters from the movie, from their perspectives. In addition, it also gives more definition to the plot of Reloaded. Translated in terms of ultra die hard Matrix fan numbers, that means the movie has taken in close to 100 million in its first day.
$8.50 average for the movie ticket. $19.95 for the Animatrix DVD. Another $49.95 or so average for the Enter the Matrix game. All of which are vital to understanding the entire plot. Now assuming there's 100 million fans buying all of the above, then you're talking a shitload of money.
And for the spoiler:
And how many here, after seeing "Last Flight of the Osiris" thought it would have no bearing on Matrix Reloaded? D'oh!
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
The infection theory is interesting... I like it. The 'getting it comment' was mostly a troll, I knew some people had to of but everyone that was talking was talking about lameness and what seems to be very periphial issues compared to what happens in the last 10 minutes or so. Smith's survival on the Zion Side, Morpheous's crisis of faith which will likely be a huge part of the next, and of course NEO using 'the force' to take out the squidies in the 'real' world.
Perhaps the connection is that direct, I mean after all NEO destroyed Smith by infecting him etc... I'll have to think on it some more. However at least for now I think their connection is more philisophical than it is direct. Yin & Yang kind of stuff ie the prophecy generates a human outside of the rules and thus the machines follow. I call it the law of the comic book....every hero needs a worthy vilan and vice versa.I think the alteration in Smith and NEO is the changing of the rules regarding transport from Zion to 'The Matrix' IE Smith is in Zion and NEO can alter it in someway as well.
The thing that disturbed me was that at the end of Matrix he learns what morpheous meant by when he understood he wouldn't have to dodge bullets and yet he limits himself to physcial interaction this movie except when he saves trinity. Smith learns the fact that he can in fact alter the matrix, not bend its rules, alter it via replication. NEO is fighting like he did initially instead of by altering the code. In my mind he should have been far more cerebral when facing lesser opponents in this one..... course that dosn't make for nearly as much excitment in a fight scene. I want a DVD for slow mo in the architect scene... all those monitors have got to be hiding something.
The brothers impressed me with something else also, the division of the machines, the deffinate life that they possess in that they do change, that they do have a free will, that they do compete. The first movie presented this solidity of the machines that was inhuman in the extreme. IE if there was AI where was it ??? did it just work to enslave the human population... where was the machine equivalent of the slave master etc... is that the architect, the oracle, the other AI programs inside the matrix ? Do they have physical correlations like NEO outside of the Matrix ? The squidies and harvesters didn't suffice at all for me as representatives of AI. So the programs in the matrix didn't have physcial form it seemed and the machines 'outside' didn't have AI, or at least not very impressive AI. Whats the harvest of power for ? What are the machines doing besides enslaving the human race ?
Now the question to me seems to be if freedom from the matrix is physical freedom or merely control of the program. The control of the illsion of choice. It also makes the choice to enter the Zion matrix very interesting. Something tells me that revolutions is going to have one of those brain twister endings rather than a true 'The End'. Perhaps something along the lines of the machines didn't enslave us... we enslaved ourselves.
I don't ask you to be me. I only ask you not expect me to be you.
Reaction #1: The Wachowskis are definitely clued. Karma++.
Reaction #2: It's waaay into the future and they're still using SSH?!
Pet peeve: Profane people propagating perfunctory pedantry.
...Ever.
It seems that the subconscious makes the decision to move the hand, then the consciousness rationalizes this into a "decision" afterwards.
This is only true if you accept a 1980's version of psychology predicated upon the concept of unified consciousness. That idea was tossed out some time ago, as we now know that what we perceive as 'unified' is actually based on consensus.
To put it in layman's terms, what you think of as the 'self' - a single person, you - is actually a conglomerate of disparate 'mini-selves' with varying goals and motives. What you think of as 'you' is actually the sum total of these selves, in essence 'voting' to decide what 'you' will do. This in no way strips you of free will, if you're wondering about the philosophical implications; it's just that you aren't a single, discrete, easily described 'program' of consciousness.
This model of human thought is now fairly well accepted, no doubt in large part because it explains why people sometimes do things that're completely out of character - and that they themselves can't really explain afterwards (although they almost always attempt to rationalize a motive after the fact). While the mini-selves generally act in a predictable, consensual manner, sometimes the conflict results in an atypical 'vote' - followed by atypical action.
The experiment in question isn't really ground-breaking. All it does is bolster this view. In this case, the decision to move the hand was indeed reached by conscious decision, but the realization of that decision didn't occur at the 'unified' level until a brief time after the fact. This can actually be replicated in a number of different ways, through different experiments. Think of the decision having to pass through a layer of administrative bureaucracy before management stamps it for approval, even though the lower echelons have already implemented the decision in question.
You still have free will. It's just that 'you' aren't a single person, but alot of little persons acting together. Or at odds, as the case may be, with the biggest voting block winning control for that particular decision.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Okay, seriously folks, am I right or what?
while the big screen version forces the hacker to change the system's root password -- in this case to "Z1ON0101." (Note the numeral in the place of the 'I' -- more hax0r style.)
;)
Ok, it's time to update my l33t hacking wordlist and begin scanning random ips for root telnet/ssh logins.
If anyone can find good numbers on this movie, i would realy want to see RIAA type flawed logic. I dont have numbers but i would bet alot that Matrix will make $ records and will be the most "pirated" movie. If we follow RIAA logic we could then say, look it's the most pirated movie ever and it made records in Box office, so more a movie gets pirated more they make $ ! :)
- Reverse RIAA logic works too.
Obviously (judging only by the comments on /.):
The "real world" in the first two movies _is_ a second level of the matrix.
"True history": human-caused ecological disaster happened in the early 21st century. Humans were going to die. Some maniac scientist created a multi-generational "hive" of suspended animation humans to repopulate after the earth's biosphere healed itself. But: in addition to preserving humans, he wanted to be sure that the new population of humans wouldn't repeat the same old mistakes. So he made the matrix as a "video game" -- no generation of humans is allowed into the Real real world until some of them make The Right Choices -- which is what Neo will continue to do.
Neo and what's-her-name plus maybe a dozen real humans (who neo is able to intuitively identify among all the 10ks of AIs he encounters in the matrix) emerge into Paradise (the healed earth, with ruined cities) and set about the task of repopulating.
There -- I save you $12.50.
Hi, anyone catch what the French guy said when he said that French is the best language to curse in?
I just watched The Matrix again after seeing Reloaded. There is a cool transition at the beginning of the scene where Neo first meets Agent Smith. On several video screens we see Neo sitting in a featureless room, and the camera slowly moves into the screens and then we're in the room.
Those screens. I had wondered about those screens. Where were they? Who was watching the interrogation? Apparently it was The Architect.
-- thinkyhead software and media
I got the feeling he had a connection into the Matrix (courtesy of Smith's failed attempt to take over his brain?) and that was why he could defeat the sentinels at the end, rather than the real world was another simulation, ship-in-a-bottle style.
Anyway, someone explain this bit of silliness to me: The guy in the real world Smith cloned himself into tries to assassinate Neo on the outside. He uses a cerimonial dagger, slices his own hand, then runs after Neo & friends.
WTH was that all about?!?!? Why would Smith slice his hand with a ceremonial dagger prior to an assassination attempt?
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
The Matrix is nothing more than a computer simulation stuck in an infinite loop. The Architect only thinks it is the sixth time because static int MatrixInstance has overflowed.
Man creates AI, AI tries to deal with life/humans/etc by running simulations to deal with every possible outcome. Due to complexity of the task AI becomes stuck in infinite loop.
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
The fight scene incidental music was terrible. In the first one, it was a masterpiece, throbbing and keeping in time with the action. It's like some clown working on TV did the action music in this one.
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
> "You're not here to make a choice, you've
> already made it, you're here to find out why
> you made that choice"
When the Oracle started talking about this, I started thinking back to the mentor superhero in Mystery Men with all his stereotypical words of wisdom that they all kept making fun of.
"You're not here to make a choice, you've al..."
Then Ben Stiller cuts in, "Yeah yeah, I know, you're here to find out why you made that choice."
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
At the end you see some sentinels getting into Zion at night while it sleeps. Then someone talks about how everything was destroyed, then they keep boring deeper into the earth.
What did I miss? Did Smith let them in? How did they get ahead of where Zion thought they were, so much so that they were just sleeping normally? Or was that not Zion but just looked like it?
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
I am not anti-semitic. Zion is the fabled ancient Jewish homeland. As you know, google is your friend, and I wont insult you with links. I am also quite aware that even mentioning this connection opens me for labelling as an anti-semite. Zion is the fabled ancient Jewish homeland. In the Matrix Universe, it is projected as being the last bastion of humanity against adversity. Make your own connections. Or not. But this is such a blatant pro-Jewry phenomenon, and I am outrageously amused that no-one has made the open connection. It's also curious that so many of the lead characters are black, yet Jews and blacks are traditionally placed at opposite ends of contention. Clever? Make up your own minds. Just ensure you are making your own minds.
> The fleet was massacred, but they weren't
> exactly defending the front gates. Zion is
> still there, at least for the time being.
That makes more sense than that Zion was destroyed, then "they started boring downward again."
HOWEVER, what was up with all those sentinels sneaking into Zion in the middle of the night?
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
With countless parodies and spoofs of The Matrix online, I was as surprised as anyone else to discover what the #1 result for the Google search term "Matrix Spoof" was.
;)
Heh.
The Pjammer Chronicles --
> as the 45-minute credits scrolled by
Evidently they had to list the names of every one of the 275,000 extras for the Zion scenes.
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
> So what if the fight scenes were unnecessary.
> They were still way better than anything that's
> been put on the screen since the original
> Matrix.
Ahh, therein lies your error. There were very few "WOW" moments. As comparison, the fight scenes in the ripoff "The One" movie were a lot better than all but a few brief moments here and there in this one.
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
We are going to find Neo waking up from in front of his computer, with his headphones still on and drool all over the desk.
Just as Alice woke up at the end of Wonderland, this is all just a dream for Mr Anderson.
I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Bane sliced his left hand, and shook Neo's hand with his right. The only reason I noticed this is that Bane seemed to make a quick and uncomfortable switch of the blade from one hand to the other.
m.
Photography, technology, and my dog Scout - http://mattstratton.com
> On an off-tangent note i'm not so sure about
^ H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ H^HThen the future is wonderful!
> defining it as a rave
It's not a rave, it's Saturnalia.
Societies that want to build population fast have such ceremonies, for obvious reasons. Spread the gene pool around randomly, nine months later a whole new crop pops out.
Then Christianity & friends come along and fuck things up.^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
"Has [being a kidnapped teenage girl, raped repeatedly for months] changed you?" - Katie Couric to Elizabeth Smart
I completely agree with you. The idea that the "real world" is actually a Matrix is
a) Far too easy and trite
b) Not really supported by the facts of the movie. It makes a lot of sense that Neo is connected to the machines in some way since he is intertwined with the code that runs them (according to the Architect). This, IMO, is why he could stop the Sentinels dead in their tracks.
Also, there have been a lot of indications that this "edition" of The One is different from the others: programs keep being surprised in one way or another by him. The Malevingian(sp?) made this pretty clear, as did the Oracle.
I am fairly sure that Revolutions will depict the overthrowing of the machine order by a human (Neo) who is capable of imposing control over them, but perhaps will choose not to. We'll see.
+++ATH0
There sure are alot of black people in zion.
:)
In the real world, our world, lots of people are concerned with self image. Buying the right car and customizing it. Sound systesm etc. So you'd think more white people would be poping out of the matrix level 1 into the matrix level 2.
All that aside, You have to accept that they are still in the matrix. Remember the SPOON
"One of the orphans asked me to give you this."
"He said you would understand."
So I have a far fetched idea. I think Neo is in a comma in a medical room hooked up to a machine.
Oh well, Did anybody catch the trailor at the end of reloaded I was out the door when the credits hit.
... and it was pretty fantastic. The seats in there are great :) Plus it's right next to EasyEverything which is another huge bonus, of course.
See it. It's good. Don't listen to the critical morons. Yes, there are cheesy bits, but on the whole it fleshes out the first movie a great deal.
+++ATH0
I don't think so! Architect offered him an if-then-else between "graceful reset" of the software (reloaded!) or run until SIGSEGV. :-)
It is only after that that Neo discovered that the "real physical world" is actually also part of the Matrix - he killed sentinels.
I was thinking that the machines might actually select The One when Zion reaches a certain size. They pick a new born, and implant some extra hardware in his mind that allows him to interface with the matrix and control it. Thus, they create the cycle of Ones. Since Neo is carrying some special circuitry he has learned to control machines in the real world with it and that's how he stopped the Sentinels.
The Smith connection could also be due to this hardware.
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Hating a movie because of a technical inaccuracy (the battery thing) is pretty anal, wouldn't you say?
Regardless, it's somewhat clear to me now that the "battery" thing is just an excuse. Possibly (probably?) what is more likely is that the machines are using the human population either for research or as a big computation farm.
+++ATH0
was Bane (or possibly Bain). He was the individual taken over by one of the Agent Smiths. This is significant because it means that he singlehandedly caused the rout of those five ships at the battle which occured at the "junction point" where the machines were digging through a tunnel.
Or were you just not paying attention?
+++ATH0
What the fuck, the movie opened on bloody Thursday, some theatres even showed it on Wednesday night! Of course it's gonna be a record opening when you open 3 days ahead of the "normal" weekend.
Go back to Geekizoid, shitbreath.
Dear Bold Marauder:
I want to e-mail you, but I'm not sure I've correctly de-obfuscated the e-mail address in your profile, and I need you to tell me if I've done it correctly. What I've come up with is boldmarauder@yahoo.com. Is boldmarauder@yahoo.com correct? boldmarauder@yahoo.com is your e-mail address, right?
Thank you very much for your help.
Well, in Matrix 1 Tank was proud of being Zion-born, but other than that I didn't see an indication of superiority in either movie. And many people are proud of where they're from, and it could also be a sign of a minor victory over the machines that humans procreate outside the Matrix.
In fact in Matrix Reloaded the head council guy was from the Matrix; he said he spent the first 11 years of his life sleeping, an obvious indication he was from the Matrix. I thought I remember seeing his Matrix interface holes, but now I'm not sure.
---SPOILER---
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If the architect was right, then that means the council are the people who were chosen to 'restart' Zion after the last massacre? The architect said there were so many men and so many women...I need to go back and count those council members.
The more I think about this the more what he said seems to fit into it. He might've known what Neo's purpose was and was preparing him for it. But then he seemed uncertain of what Neo's purpose was, or perhaps he did and was seeding the idea that the machines couldn't wipe humans out completely because they need us; perhaps he regrets that they helped the architect by choosing the seeds last time and hopes Neo won't cooperate and sees what happens.
By the way, I left the movie when the credits started but later read thre was a "surprise" after the credits. What did I miss? Thanks.
Dear Bold Marauder:
I want to e-mail you, but I'm not sure I've correctly de-obfuscated the e-mail address in your profile, and I need you to tell me if I've done it correctly. What I've come up with is boldmarauder@yahoo.com. Is boldmarauder@yahoo.com correct? boldmarauder@yahoo.com is your e-mail address, right?
Thank you very much for your help!!!!!!
The other bits of philosophical content (epistemological skepticism, etc.) were introduced in the first film and not further developed any significant amount in this one (besides merely being reiterated).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Okay, bought tiks, went home, watched the first movie on DVD (yeah, geek), watched second movie. The first movie presented a coherent vision, while the second movie does not. I suspect (if I could ask the brothers Wachoski) that my impression reflects interference by the studio and big money, rather than lack of vision by the directors. Replaying the movie in my head (a useful skill for a mere human), I can clearly see how the scenes were "storyboarded" yet the translation from concept to celluloid lacked the coherence of the first film. Agent Smith lacked the "dread" that his character so clearly exuded in the first film. Other characters lacked the conviction of their first movie counterparts (definitely skirting spoilers here). Summary: too much comic book and too little time for philosophizing.
Agreed, of course that was the reason, but that wasn't my objection - the previous poster held Top Gun up as an example of using 'real' stuff as opposed to some hacking movies using 'fake' stuff. I just found that comment ironic.
I did say "According to The Architect", I was just addressing the question posed by the parent of my post. I pretty much agree that there are tremendous implications of the last 5 minutes of the film with respect to the validity of what everyone in the story has said and believes about The Matrix.
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
Well, I've only seen one Scooby Doo cartoon, but it was actually pretty cool. At the end the ghost that had been threatening the protagonist team turned out to be a bad guy in a mask, who would have gotten away with it except for the team of heros (darn kids!). I thought it pretty inventive writing, and can't wait to see another episode to find out what they do next.
"""
They are celebrating real life;
"""
Except for the very real possibility that we're going to go all 13th Floor (cheesy sci-fi from 1999 after the original Matrix) where *none* of it is real because everybody's in a MetaMatrix -- which is how Agent Smith got out over the phone into a real body.
Besides being bored out of my skull up until the Oracle showed up with SQL Ser... er, Seraph, I was really quite surprised at the lack of ordinary people in Reloaded. In the original, the ending foot-chase scene started off with a guy screaming about Neo swiping his cell phone, went through a market with kids screaming as their parents turn into agents, a pensioner's apartment where the lady in the kitchen gets agent-ized... all very real-world events and locations with people who have a couple seconds to display some emotion before the machines take advantage of them. Reloaded had one normal lady (with groceries at the beginning of the burly brawl) who was given enough camera time to make an impression of the innocence that's perpetually at-risk inside the Matrix.
That's where Reloaded really fell down. People in Zion were surviving, not living -- the planet was hosed and they had no clear path to un-hose it and no clear desire to, either; they were living either to beat the machines or because they couldn't think of anything better to do. But the people who were inside the Matrix -- you know, those people Morpheus and them-all wanted to save? -- never had a chance to generate any sympathy with the audience. Hence, when we got to the architect, it didn't matter that Neo was going to cause the billions of Matrix people to die because we didn't feel that they were alive -- most of the people we saw on screen were software -- and it didn't matter that the revellers in Zion might fall so long as their would-be savior was at risk of losing his love-interest.
All-in-all, a visually stunning but depressingly mind-numbing film that didn't care enough about its inner workings to warrant seeing again before I get a really freakin' big widescreen TV.
Preview for the third film. It was ok, but not worth sitting thru 15 minutes (swear to god) of credits complete with deafening obnoxious music. It wasn't as exciting to me as the preview for Reloaded.
And Bush II was put into office in 2000. Coincidence?
Gross boxoffice is the correct measure, as we all know that the *AA's only see you as a source of $$, not as a person.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
OK, I admittedly have only seen it once, (to be remedied sometime soon...) but in the Architect scene, the monitors are shown to represent not only Neo 6.0 but also all of his 5 predecessors. People keep saying that Neo 6.0 is making a different decision than the others, but when he turns towards the door that can save Trinity, don't all the monitors show Neo 1.0-5.0 turning in exactly the same direction? Is this maybe the predetermined choice, and he is continuing the cycle?
-SablKnight
of how you fall back on your standard "I'm right and smart, listent to me, you're all dumb" posts. just when I thought you were gone, you're back, posting crap. didn't that guy who you threatened sue you yet ?
How long have you been sucking your own dick?
Thanks for the pre-school introduction to philosophy. Keep at it - maybe one day you'll get it.
WHy choose from the two doors? Why not bust out thru the wall, or choose to remain there forever?
Too many people have latched on to this theory. Listen...the Matrix is not multitiered. The theory that Zion is another Matrix is wrong. If you're interested in my argument, here it is: http://www.livejournal.com/~kaigeX
Anyone got all the dvd screener yet? Its 4 cds, really nice quality. I've got cd 1 already from the release site (http://afwz.r8.org). saw movie in theatres! Best movie ever!!! can't wait for revolutons!
The Matrix Reloaded was not as good as the first, but is something definitely worth seeing. The technology used is incredible and I feel this is one of the few movies that could get away with it! It is exciting and visually stimulating!
Matix Reloaded $9.00
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Mortal Combat III $0.50
Save your $8.50 and enjoy a game of the arcade fighter...
Mortal Combat III is less violent but at least
the game has an interesting story line . .
They should name this new movie:
. Matrix : Regurgitated
___is it over yet
______is it over yet
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Could Neo have taken a step backwards to Zion 5.0 ?
Hi clitoris chopper, you islamists support clitoris carving. You are Islamic, and of course are a fucking animal. I hate you you pull-start camel jockey lover. Towelheads, Camel Jockies, Sand Niggers, Ackmids, Abeebs, Carpet Flyers, Dune Coons, Rag Heads, Sand Scratchers, Habeebs, Abba-Dabbas, Camel-Humpers, Demi-niggers, Fig-Gobblers, Hucka-luckas (hucka hlacka ghalcka ghugh), Lefties (If you steal, you lose the right hand so, since they are thieves...) Ocnods, Pull-Start-ables (imagine pull starting Ossama's dirty rag like a Briggs and Stratton), Roach-Ranchers (habibs cant kill roaches by a tenant of Is-slum), Sand Moolies.
Shut up all you dirty fucking Islamic pigfucking swinehundts and the pigs, the communist fuckin Islamic terrorist supporter.
Take your fucking Koran and cram it up your ass. The sooner the earth sees Islam leave it, the better off it will be. Your Koran is Goat Piss.
I hope if there is a God and a Hell, you have to drink the liquidy shit from a Pig's ass, and Jewish Rabbis defecate on you.
I hate the stupid ISLAM fucks who read into the trash they come up with. Saddam Hussein [who needs to take a dirt nap] is higher on my sanity list than fucking Muslim "clerics." In fact, I like Saddam more than most of the other Arab leaders because he is secular. We should fucking nuke the Saudis and Mecca and Medina and turn it into rubble, then tell Saddam to remove the heads of all the buttfucking "royalty" in the area.
I want to wipe my ass with Mohammad's shroud. I want to grind his body up into bone meal and fertilize my garden with it.
Our tortured dead scream out in HORROR, asking for vengeance:
Nuke their countries to hell.
Nuke them again.
Death to Islam.
I piss on Mecca. I wipe my ass with the Koran. I shit upon Mohammed. I wipe the cum for a freshly fucked pussy with Mohammed's shroud then throw it in the pig sty so it can mire in pig shit as it decomposes.