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"iPod's Dirty Secret"
akpoff writes "Have you ever made a promise while in tech-support hell to let everyone know how bad the product is? The Neistat brothers followed through after the batteries in an iPod died and Apple told them it would cost US$250 to replace them. The tech rep told the guys they might as well buy a new iPod. The brothers thought differently and made a movie showing how they got the word out in a large metro area. Of course it was made on a Mac with iMovie." Their statement is a bit misleading: many people have iPods that have lasted a lot longer than 18 months (the iPod was released over two years ago). But the batteries don't last forever. What is their life expectancy? Does Apple notify consumers of a life expectancy?
Batteries don't last for ever and it costs money to replace them!
Seriously, what were they expecting? When I bought my iPod, I don't remember Apple ever saying they would replace the batteries for free, and I'm sure I don't recall them saying used magical batteries that never die.
Apple's iPod support page says you can get your battery replaced for $99 - not cheap but not $250 either.
PDA Smart offers $69 replacement service or a do-it-yourself kit for $59. Which Geek.com raved about
If the guys can't Google, they shouldn't buy expensive toys.
here
Quite honestly, if someone insists upon Authentic Apple Parts for everything, when there are commodity parts available -- this goes especially for RAM, and now also apparently for iPod batteries -- I don't see how they've got a leg to stand on whilst griping and moaning about how unfair life is.
While I have heard of these issues, the battery does not die on all cases. I have a first gen ipod that I got almost two years ago and have noticed perhaps a 10% drop in charge duration. Part of this problem was addressed by a software update a few months back. My ipod had slipped to about 5 hours of battery life and jumped back up to 8-9 hours after the firmware update.
Yawn.
Gotta love the stealth goatse.cx.
The site was created in the last week.
Days after Apple announced the $99 battery replacement policy.
Months after www.ipodbattery.com offered $50 battery replacements.
Perhaps by the time it's out fuel cells will have matured enough to be in at least some of the higher-end products in the line...
Like anyone thought that Apple could summons the power of the Almighty and create a Lithium-ion battery that lasts forever...
The product has a one-year warranty. That means- you guessed it- Apple will back it up for one year. Want more? Lay out the $59 and buy an AppleCare Protection Plan- the service and support extends to 2-years.
Tech Support is a business, boys and girls, not a public service. Apple has to compete with illegal abuses of monopoly power, and yet they still offer top-notch support and quality products. Don't bitch about them not doing more than they said they would.
What is the matter with you? You include the goatse guy AND the video! Seriously, step away from the keyboard and get a life.
Trevor
Freaking parent ipod download has a goatse pic in it. Do Not DOWNLOAD
The Ro Factor - Jeep/Linux Weblog
As a rule, consumer electronics factory repair prices have been at or near replacement cost for all but high end gear (ie. >$2000US) for years. Consumers with enough brains to program their VCR who want to flog their gear a little longer have long been buying DIY books. As others have pointed out, Google is the friend of modern man.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Does anyone else find it amusing that they use and advertise Quicktime on a website meant to put down an Apple product?
Maybe I had better buy a new car?
If you are one in a million, then there are six thousand people who are just like you.
A shipping and handling fee of $29.95 USD will be charged for all iPod repairs performed after the first six months of the warranty.
Nice. STAB the consumer in the back for S&H. Nice.
Out-Of-Warranty Pricing
Price includes:
- Repair: $249.00 USD Replacement: labor, parts, and a 90-day guarantee on materials and workmanship, plus $6.95 USD shipping. $255.95 USD total.
Funny. 250 bucks regardless of model. Sounds like a gouge to me.
Steve Jobs in Interview:
Q: Still, $300 to $500 is an obstacle to a lot of people.
JOBS: No, of course I don?t think it?s too costly. Fifty million homes have DVD players that cost that kind of money. For music lovers, I don?t think it?s a hurdle at all. There are sneakers that cost more than an iPod.
Yes, $500 isnt a lot for a person worth more thatn 250 million dollars with a 100 million dollar jet.
Battery Service: $99.00 USD: labor, parts, and a 90-day guarantee on materials and workmanship, plus $6.95 shipping. $105.95 USD total.
$99 bucks for a battery that is worth $30. Nice. Where are the consumer protection laws when you need them.
Vandle?
Well, actually, you're wrong again, since OS X does not support processor upgrade cards. Maybe you should take reading classes.
The wording of this makes it seem like you're talking about a machine that originally had something other than a G3 (say a 603 or 604) in it. Is that the case or did the machine actually ship from Apple with a G3 processor?
G3 Blue and White Yosemite. How about that?
Your wording which is basically assaulting a paying customer makes me think your are a CHIEF Shylock bean counter at APPL and you have fantasies about makig love to Steve Jobs.
Another apologist zealot boot kicks a languishing paying customer while he is down. And you guys always go for groin shots first.
If you provide an iPod with power from outside will it still run as normal even with a dead battery? If so, there are going to be some cool-looking firewire HDD arrays in the future.
Disclaimer: Mac user since OS7/LC III and I want an iPod once it becomes videoPod
I think it's great. If this doesn't wake Apple up, nothing will. Seriously, how hard would it have been to design the thing with an easily replaceable battery? That's one of the things you look for when buying things like digital cameras: how much does a replacement battery cost?
I love the iPod and I want one but here's to hoping that Gen 4 pods have easily replaceable batteries. Remember, the guys that did the vid are solid Mac users too. They're just righteously pissed off. More power to them.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Hey hey hey, AC. Just back up a little bit. Not all of us zealots are apologists.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
First of all, as many have said before me, the battery costs $99, not $250. Also, the site went up days *after* the announcement, which means they were irresponsible enough to keep it on.
Second, batteries don't last forever. There can't be a life expectancy because that number is dependent on number of charges, hours used, length of time used, and other factors. If they said "13000 hours" and some fool's iPod went dead before that, then he'd be compelled to put it on a site like these people did, which IMO, is ridiculous.
It is very possible their tech support guy was a moron, but they shouldn't tarnish the reputation of iPod or Apple. It's so pathetic how they always go for the most successful products and attempt to break them to pieces.
A blog like any other.
1. Vandalize many Apple signs. ...
2. Make video showing clearly your face and your acts of vandalism.
3. Put audio into video that clearly reproduces call to Apple for easy identification.
4. Put same on Internet.
7. PROFIT!
I'm sick and gross feeling, but I feel a little better now.... :)
9 hours
- 5 hours
----------
4 hours
4 / 9 = 0.4444 * 100 = 44.44%
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
According to this Slashdot article, Apple will replace any iPod battery for $99.00. "Although the service is $99, they state in the article 'iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service.' So make sure you back up that music before shipping it off!"
why do you think i went AC in this thread.
/.is clearly banned.
/. moderating public puts up with the reasonless down-moderations.
i got an ac post up to +3, insightful, and then the though police from apple came and moderated it down.
if you say anything REMOTELY critical of apple the though policing groupthinking censors come and destroy all resistence. its like the borg.
i have been wronged by apple. and expressing that in the community is taboo. expressing that on
this groupthinking thought policing is fascinatingly high amongst apple users.
AAPL can never be wrong to most zealots, but some of the more insightful and humorous jabs at a far from perfect company come from taltented honest apple users that are able to parodize the predicament apple puts them in.
its unfortunate. most of the time the most defensive and the most "supportive" of apple's wrongdoings are the most helpless users or if they claim to be productive with the apple, they are the least productive.
amazing. amazing the
With proper care, rechargeable batteries can last a long time. I have nicads over 10 years old that work nearly as good as the day they were purchased. 3 to 5 years is normal, 5 to 7 years or lnger can be expected with good treatment.
If you don't allow the battery to discharge almost fully, battery life can be curtailed. Worse, total discharge can lead to dead cells in the battery...which can sometimes be fixed (I won't post how here, it is a little dangerous) but usually means the entire battery will have to be replaced.
I've had my iPod for 2 years (it's an original 5 GB model), and the batteries are still as perfect as the day I bought them. I use it every day, and recharge it from all points of discharge. I don't know what all of these people are doing to kill their batteries ...
***
I don't understand why everyone is so quick to jump to Apple's defense. If you are paying $400 or more for a music player, you shouldn't have to pay another $100 every year to replace the freaking battery. I started having battery probs with my 10GB second gen. model a few weeks after i bought it. the replacement they eventually sent me (it took more than a month.) crapped out a few months later. and apparently that's all you get for $400. Two broken ipods and a years worth of headaches. If I had known the batteries would die so soon I wouldn't have bought an ipod in the first place. It was a really big financial sacrifice in the first place which i justified because music is my life and i thought i was buying the greatest device ever. But even $50 dollars is too much for me to spend right now, and i'm afraid i'll just get another bad battery. $400 is a hell of a lot of money, and it should buy you a product that works for longer than a year. I feel like I deserve a better solution.
When you race electric R/C cars on a serious level, you become quite adapt at building and servicing your own packs.
:)
Popping the back off my iPod and installing a fresh battery, bought off the net for less than US$75.00, is nothing... I look forward to the day
why not? if that's what they are worth. I dont think apple is making $100 profit on each ipod so they aren't going to handing out new batteries. Even Dell and Nomad sell for approximately the same price range as ipods. these things must be selling with very little mark up.
if you used your cell phone 8 hours a day or even your portable phone, the batteries would not last a year either. What are you expecting? batteries die after a while, that's the way its always been. Why should iPod be different in that regard?
Get a job hippie.
It is not acceptible design for a device with a part that will wear out during the useful life of the device not having that part serviceable. This is as bad as the old V-8 Mustang-IIs that required the engine be dropped to replace the back two spark plugs. Even the game boy advance has a user replaceable battery (albeit behind a screw).
While Apple might not be guilty of any crime in their handling of this, they are definately guilty of:
o Very poor design
o Very poor handing of the problem.
Apple relies on very high customer satisfaction to justify their premium products. This type of incident does not bode well.
I ordered an iPod a few hours after the first ones were announced in 2001. Still have it. Battery still works fine.
That's a 2 year old iPod for those who are curious.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
what makes you think these are the same? Apple's price includes the shipping and installation and does not violate the warantee. Also since apple is exchanging your ipod, not just changing the battery you can be pretty certain you will be getting back an ipod in better condition than the one you sent in.
i'll bet the farm my 10gB ipod cost apple less than $300 to make
I'll take that farm. Have you priced out the components, let alone the cost of providing customer service and warantees? that's right go price out a 40GB micro drive, or a set a samarium cobalt ear peices. mas production? get real. apples not driving those markets. if these could be made for a lot less dell and nomad would be selling them for a lot less.
you should reasonably expect to replace the battery in less than a year?
uh yes, depending upon use. THese things have a finite number of cycles. But in your case your ipod battery is under warantee. so stop whining.
Toshiba unit, no less. I don't see how anecdotal 'evidence' supported by a biased movie-rant is the basis for an assault on Apple's integrity. I have been an Apple user for decades, and have only had great experiences (except once, that damn 1400c, which while being a peice of crap, was still replaced immediately with an alternate 3400c, IIRC).
Again, It's anecdotal, but I could just as easily go make some lame "Underground, rebelious" movie about how great my experiences have been, but I'm a little busier than those worthless college dweebs with too much time on their hands and too much of their parents money...
Shit breaks, grow up. Probably mistreated the thing anyways and are trying to get something for nothing...
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
This user account is inactive account replaced by the PDA
not me. I modded valiantly against the tide of MIND ZORKED APPLE HANDJOBBERS to raise the truth to the top. it didn't help much, sorry.
Not taking the first no for the final answer, and working a bit with the company, goes a long way towards fixing most issues.
Get off my launchpad!
The cost for repairing an iPod is $250, however if the battery is the only problem it costs $100. So either:
1. There was something wrong with the iPod other than the battery (maybe it fell our of their pocket one too many times?)
2. Or, the tech support rep from Apple goofed and forgot that battery service is cheaper. Heck, not all of the Apple tech support reps can be stellar. If you don't like what you hear, call back.
I dont think apple is making $100 profit on each ipod
According to this , every $ 499 iPod makes up to $ 175 in profit.
Instead, like all other Apple technology, they chose something so proprietary that you can't buy one anywhere else...
I suppose you are referring to all of the other proprietary hardware that Apple has chosen over the years like SCSI/IDE/Serial ATA drives, PCI/PCI-X/AGP expansion, USB 1.1 and 2.0, 1394, PC100/PC133/DDR 400 SDRAM, VGA/DVI video connectors.
Cursing in the French language is like wiping your ass with silk.
Now, my Powerbook is a different story: $149
149.99
So, I use the PowerCord now.
..and I don't have a battery problem.
These guys should be arrested for defacing Apple's advertising.
I bought two iPods about a two days after they came out so I have had each of them for over 24 months.
Just for kicks, I ran one of them all day from 8am to 5:30pm nonstop. For those doing the math, that is over 9.5 hours and it was still going (I had to go home).
I am not saying there are not defective units, but as someone who has had one of the oldest iPods out there (2 of them) they just keep on ticking (or playing).
BZ
Story here on MacMinute, and here is the official Apple page on it.
For you non link clicking types, this is MacMinute's blurb:
21-Nov-2003
Apple is now offering an iPod AppleCare Protection Plan for both Mac and Windows users. (Previously, AppleCare was only available for Apple's desktops and laptops.) iPods come standard with 90 days of phone support and one year of hardware service coverage. The US$59 AppleCare plan extends service and support coverage for your iPod, its included accessories, and iTunes for up to two years from the original purchase date. With the plan, you get direct access to Apple experts for answers by phone and access to Web-based resources. If your iPod or its accessories need serviced, Apple-certified technicians will repair it or provide a replacement. The plan is available for all iPod models within their one-year limited warranty.
The iPod is not the only device to use built in rechargeable batteries. Other examples of such devices are cell phones and Palm PDAs. Cell phones usually have easy access to the batteries, but the high end Palm PDAs don't. Does anyone know in comparison how easy it is to change these batteries, how much they cost and what is their life span?
I think the issue may need to be making people aware of the lifespan of 'integrated' rechargeable batteries, no matter the product.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I saw the solution to this months ago when researching my purchase of a ipod... ya know this is something that you do when you spend hundreds of dollars on something... I mean come on, I saw the ipod for sale and saw that there was no option for buying a battery... so i did a google search and ta da... http://www.ipodbattery.com these guys should have spend as much time typing "replacement ipod battery" in google as they did carving out those stupid letters in their graffiti templete... an Idiot is born every day i guess
I got a 5 GB the day they were announced (well, I ordered it that day). Never had a battery problem with it, and it continues to play just fine as my backup iPod. However, the FireWire chip in it fried when I connected it to my Mac back in March. I pulled it apart and checked everything and verified that the chip was the culprit. It still works, it just will never sync again.
I bought a 15 GB to replace it, but paid more than I needed to just to get it at Best Buy and get the $40 extended warranty. I NEVER buy extended warranties, but in this case, Best Buy is crazy - for $40, I guarantee the life of my iPod to 3 years. iPods are great, but I would never put their average lifespan as that long.
It's a pretty well-done and humorous little movie, I thought.
I basically agree. No product costing this much $$$ should have a battery that isn't easily user replaceable, period.
You're probably right on that, but that doesn't mean Apple can't sue the pants off of these morons. It's called trade libel and happens when you make false statements that are interpreted as fact about a company or its products. The laws in the each state differ, but that is the general idea.
These were obviously false statements because many (if not most) iPod batteries last longer than 18 months. These guys are screwed. When they finish paying money damages to Apple they'll wish they had just bought another frickin' iPod instead.
Boom Shanka
And how should apple support products of theirs that some tech at Voelker soldered back together?
No major manufacturer allows official support people to repair broken parts, only replace them. Yes, it's perhaps a bit silly, but because manhours are so expensive, it's cheaper in the long run.
Did you pay your grandpa's friend at least $30/hour for his time?
It's not too hard to understand why Apple would make these decisions. I doubt Dell or Gateway would have their support technicians repair damage like that either.
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
ok, so if you don't allow them to discharge almost fully you will have reduced battery life. if you allow them to discharge fully you can get dead cells. Anyone else see the problem here? How do you define "almost fully"?
I don't know where you're getting your info, but I installed a pre-release version of Panther on my iPod a while back and ran it for a few weeks as normal and I had no issues and the iPod is still fine (touches wood very quickly).
So although that isn't what it's designed for, if it's that dead that it's constantly hooked up to a power supply, I reckon it'd be worth trying.
Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will! - Antonio Gramsci.
wouldnt anyone else use this an excuse to buy a newer bigger one? I have one of the first gen 5gig ipods and its going strong but I still want a newer bigger one. If mine died I'd be liek oh well time for a new toy!
sony makes, or at one time made, the battery. why not go for their throats too? Is the apple iPod a good product? Does it serve its function? yes, yes. Does it last longer than 18 months, sometimes that is the case. Personaly, I have never been able to hang onto any portable devices, digital camera's die, palm pilots die, my first sony discman stopped working after a year... whats up with that? Maybee all companies will have to adopt a labeling scheme that says something to the effect, "We really hope this product last a long long time for you, if it doesn't and its out of warranty, we sincerely appologize but it means that you should buy a new one, or pay to get this one fixed." Was the tech guy right, yah he probably was at the time, and then apple lowered it. I remember taking a call about an iPod, where this guy wanted to know if the ipod could be used as "elevator music" for his office. He wanted to plug the iPod into a receiver and have it play continuisly for throughout the week... he wanted to know if it would last for ever, I remembered telling him, "sir, to be quite honest I have no clue, but I would seriously doubt it only because nothing really lasts forever." the guy bought one on the spot because he liked the honesty." Like doggies and kitty's, batteries too die...
Saying "yes" right away only gets you many, many more "complaints".
2) I have an original 5 gig, and the batteries have yet to wear out, and my normal use is about 3-4 times a week.
honestly any time you have a embeded battery system, your going to have burnout trouble. It was less than a year when my rommies iomega MP3 player burned the battery. His was much easier to replace than the iPods but it still cost him like 79 bucks
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
I've taken the case off my 5gig removed the battery and plugged in the firewire connector to my powermac and it spun up and functioned
Here's a question: Why? I mean, if the battery was dead, you wouldn't need to take it out to test that, would you?
Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
In the interests of prolonging battery life of most kinds of rechargable batteries (which I think includes the iPod's kind) ... an occasional "deep drain" is always helpful.
True, deep draining an iPod isn't as easy as say, a TiBook, but eh, every couple months when the battery dies, don't charge it for a while, press the on-button (cause that uses juice), do whatever you can to suck the thing dry.
That should help the charge potential a bit.
Also, do the same with your Powerbook/iBook's batteries.
And also, temperature can be a factor in battery life.
So basically, if I go out and buy a new portable CD player, a pair of AA batteries to go with it, and start feeding it CDs for me to listen to, I should expect to get more than 18 months out of the batteries? If that's the case, then we all need to be suing the Energizer, and Duracell makers.
I typically listen to my iPod for about 6-8 hours a day. I charge it up every two days. I've had it for almost a year now. The battery is fine for me. But of course, being an audio engineer, I don't listen at earsplitting levels so my battery isn't used up by driving the output amplifier.
Let's do a little basic math here. I spend $3 on some batteries...long life Duracell or Energizer. I go through a pair in two days at my usual listening rate of 6-8 hours per day. So that's $1.50 a day in batteries. In a month, I've spent $30 (an average of 20 work days a month, at $1.50 per day). In a year, I will spend $360 in batteries. If you stretch that out to the 18 months the guy is complaining about, you end up spending $540.
So, in 18 months, he can spend $540 on batteries, or $499 on a new iPod and $41 on music from the iTMS.
Or, he could spend $499 on a new iPod, and in 18 months, for only an additional $10 investment, get a new battery. So he now spends $550 and get's an iPod for 36 months.
This is utter silliness.
Plant a tree in a developing country.
I know the iPod's other dirty little secret. Sometimes people do things with their hands, then touch the iPod without washing themselves. I guess you could call those people "Palm Pilots".
Did you even read the post? Well, did you? Can you understand a flow of events?
Voelker told me they COULD NOT fix my adapter, as in, it is NOT POSSIBLE in any way to fix it, but I could order a brand new one for $90, + tax and shipping of course. Also, it should be worthy of note Apple has a propritery (sp?, no, I'm not going to check it) design on their adapters where no off the shelf adapters will work properly. I never asked Apple to fix it, because I was out of warrenty and I knew they wouldn't do it anyway, Volker advertises themselves as repair specialists (also as Apple experts, though they sold my TV News teacher a G4 with 128 MB of RAM and told him FCP would work fine, though it by itself needs 128 MB of real RAM to work, but that's another topic) and as such should have been able to fix this, even if they did charge more than a new one would have been.
And no, I didn't pay him $30 for his time, he offered to do it for free, but I still floated him $10. Believe it or not, some people actually still do things just beacuse they're good, nice people, not because they're trying to get rich.
I'm postive dell and gateway wouldn't repair this same issue. I know Gateway will send you a free restore disk for $30 s & h (see journal).
And for all you dumb bastards who moded my initial post off topic and overrated, you are aware it is on topic, correct?
Now, I'm only posting this here one time, but I'm sure it will handle all replies to this and my previous post: Comment Reply Policy
Request: ECM unit, 1000 km fullerene cable, 1 tactical nuclear weapon. Reason: Birthday party for foreign dignitary.
That's for NiCad batteries. Li-Ion batteries get damaged by this. Don't ever deep drain Lithium Ion batteries.
2. Their mom is going to be so MAD that they X-Acto'ed the dining room table like that.
Feh. Fanboi FUD.
fin.
- learn to swim.
registrant-email: vanneistat@hotmail.com
I'm sure Casey would love to hear from everyone!
- learn to swim.
Just curious, but why didn't you call Apple?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Violation of Article 2. That didn't take very long, 58 min., in fact.
Apple has recently started selling iPods through Target, CompUSA, Best Buy and Circuit City and all 3 offer insurance that basically replaces your iPod with a new one if issues happen to it. Most are offering 3yrs for $30.00 approx. and 4yrs for $40.00 approx. Also Apple now offers AppleCare for all new iPods and for iPods under a yr old like mine. This is 2yr deal from the the date you bought your iPod. This includes tech support which now has tips to help improve your battery charges. The price is $59.00 or $46.00 with edu. discount. Apple has also a battery replacement program for $99.00 for users with original iPods or iPods out of warranty. There is also many 3rd party battery service now available to iPod users that either gives them DIY kit or they actually do all the work for you type service. Most places are charging between $25-50 dollars range depending on what you get. So stop complaining and use one of the above services. Also if you don't want to mess with any of it get creative and make nice firewire external HD out of it. I currently have 40GB iPod and had no problems with it at all. I plan on buying the new vPod as soon as it comes out next yr.
A little while ago (11/11) I was reading a blog of some girl who lives in NYC and she had these pictures of where someone had spray painted over tons and tons of iPod ads in NYC.
I thought nothing of it, seeing as how I could understand how some stupid people could take something the wrong way and do something stupid about it. Now... there's a slashdot article and a little movie about it...
That's pretty damn lame. Nowhere in the original post did you (assuming AC in Bloodmoon) mention anything about contacting Apple, only an Apple Reseller. FWIW, I did read your original post, but apparently you didn't.
I ask a meaningful question, and rather than not reply at all, you choose to reply rudely.
I am almost ashamed to call myself an iPod user. First there was yelling about how the older iPods didn't get the features from software v3.x. Boo Hoo Hoo.
Now they're complaining that the battery doesn't last forever. I find it amazing that after Li-ION batteries have been out for years that people don't understand that these things don't last forever.
When i purchased my Powerbook G4, i was told by the reseller that i would go through about a battery every year. I opted for the Applecare and they have given me a new battery every year. My first battery dropped to about 50% life after a year and now i'm on number 2. While this isn't great, it's certainly better than my fathers Dell laptop that has about 20mins of life after about 1 year. For those of you who don't understand why Apple will not repair things like powersupplies, it's because it would cost more to fix one, than buying a new one.
As for batteries, has anyone looked the market full of portable electronics lately. A large share of PDAs do not have replacable batteries. Once your Clio battery dies, you have a $200 paperweight.
Unfortunately, i have yet to find a battery that lasts forever. You have to change the battery in your car every 3-5 years, and it's only really used to start the car. PDA, Laptops, Cellphones, none of these devices have batteries that last more than a couple years, yet it is the iPod that gets complained about.
People need to realize that every device has a "cost of ownership." With most devices this consists of purchase cost, maintanence costs, repair costs and so on. Having a battery fail in a device after 18 months is not out of the ordinary, especially with heavy use. You have to change the oil in your car, rotate the tires, and tune it up every 60,000 miles, yet none of these things anger people as much as the battery failing in the ipod.
Just sit down, shut up, and stop blaming Apple for the simple fact that their hardware makes it through the warrenty period without issue.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe that's part of it. Another reason was this guy's campaign had merit. From what you've said of the other one, it doesn't sound like it did since they were abused.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
The ipodbattery.com states that their battery has an energy capacity of 1200 mAh, but the Panasonic battery from DigiKey has a capacity of 900 mAh. Although it's more cost-efficient than the ipodbattery one, you are losing 25% of its battery life.
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
If we inspect a relevant design problem - user-replaceable batteries in iBooks - we see that Apple previously engineered a nice, effective solution.
Why hasn't it done so with the iPod?
One obvious reason is iPod size. Looking at photos of a battery replacement in action (see http://www.ipodbattery.com/slimipodinstall.htm) it's fairly clear that the nested battery could have had a removable back cover, but for the fact that the hdd is on top of it! What a peculiar arrangement. Presumably common sense didn't dictate this choice, but rather the desire for a slim form factor. Accessibility would have meant a few hateful millimeters more of width...
Another likely reason is profit. Apple doesn't need to charge $99 to replace your battery, or $59 for an extended warranty. It wants to charge you one of those amounts. Battery replacement is part of its revenue stream.
To be charitable to Apple, this may not exactly be defective design so much as design that sacrifices common sense for superficial qualities (although consumers may think differently as their iPods age). It seems to be the product design equivalent of liposuction. ;-)
I believe there are some relevant issues with lithium batteries and product safety. If the iPod is only designed to work safely and reliably with Apple specified and tested batteries, they may want to prevent end-users from mucking with the battery. Nokia has been blamed for catastrophic battery failures that were caused by sub-standard counterfeit battery packs. Apple may have decided that making it a user-replaceable part wasn't worth the risk. Plus, it avoids the added cost and reliability issues of a case with a user-accessible battery compartment.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I have had similar problems with older, out of warranty, kit and gone to my local Apple dealer. They've done me repairs free of charge, no problem. This is in the UK though and I visit there often so am known to them.
Given the apparent ease at which legal redress is taken in the US (witness the number of lawyers) is it a surprise that they wouldn't repair the power supply? Consider what would happen if they did make a repair but it failed and gave you a shock. You'd be taking them to court over that. Far simpler for them to say that the repair isn't possible.
The idea of 'off the shelf' power adapters is an interesting one. The power adapter with my new G4 is different than the one for my old G4. I guess that this is because the new one needs more power. If you could buy any power adapter what would be the chance of just picking the cheapest and then complaining that it took forever to charge?
You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
"Would you have the same reaction if this was Microsoft/SCO/Oracle or any other "big iron" company which does not share Apple's cool hipness?"
Of course I would - idiots are everywhere.
Part of being cool is not taking everything so SERIOUSLY...
But the batteries don't last forever.
No batteries do, but the key here is 'unreplaceable'. It's easy to Monday quarterback this one, but given what Ryan told the customer - that the pod can be 'repaired', that the battery cannot be replaced - the outcome is justified.
Apple really blew it - again. Now no one will ever know what the truth really is. If the brothers get a new battery for $50, great - but thanks to Apple, we have a new scandal which really stinks.
I don't think these guys had all the info, or were possibly led astray by the Apple rep. But really, as big an issue as this has become, Apple would do well to offer a 4G iPod with an external battery pack. I mean, c'mon, Ives and crew are more than up to it. If the design was more or less exactly like the PowerBook design is, it would make no difference at all to daily use (i.e. battery flush with the body, like a cell phone).
In fact one of the unexpected bonuses to this kind of design I've observed, on my T68i, is that if I drop it the phone has tended to land on one of the bottom corners, or scrape the back - which is the battery itself. I can remove the cosmetic damage to the phone by changing that battery.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
The first thing I did when I got my first iPod, was go to CompUSA and get the extended warrenty. You don't even need to buy it there to get it. Cost me $39.99 and I was able to get it replaced for free the next year when the wheel broke...Then again 6mos later when the battery life started sucking...then again when the next one started crashing. I use the CRAP out of mine, and am on my 4th iPod. (new, 30gb one) and have only ever spent $39.00 each time I get it replaced. Yeah, I've spent $160.00, but I've also been able to upgrade to the latest and greatest every year for less than $50. I'll take that deal ANY day...
My
If you call ANY hardware support line for ANY company, they will ask for information, and if you don't give them the information they need to properly troubleshoot the issue, then you aren't going to get help.
In addition to that, if you are under the published system requirements, they have every right to tell you to sod off, as there are reasons the minumums are set there. Reasons such as driver support, performance considerations, and more likely in Apple's case, chipset support and removing the god-awful backwards compatibility engineering costs of supporting machines that are 6+ years old.
It's not just Apple that does this. Go buy ANY hardware OR software that you don't meet the minimum requirements for and call support saying it doesn't work, and see what response you get.
Oh, and nice blast at the end about people making money where others didn't have the vision to see what they had. I seem to recall Xerox executives voluntarily showing Jobs & Co the Smalltalk systems, above the protests of the PARC employees at the time.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Well isn't that just dandy? I guess we should all go out and race R/C cars!!! Sounds like so much fun!! And it's so popular, I bet tons of people on my street race R/C cars!!! They could probably fix my iPod battery! Yeah!
Oh god this is great. R/C car enthusiasts are here to save US! Joy! Bless you, R/C car enthusiasts, bless you!
Some other "not that big a deal for some's":
Metalworkers:
"When you work with sheet metal on a serious level, you become quite adept at remounting your Pinto's rear bumper to the frame."
EMTs:
"When you work with saving lives on a serious level, you become quite adept at removing those small plastic parts from choking children's throats."
Waitresses:
"When you work with coffee on a serious level, you become quite adept at not dumping scalding coffee on your lap."
Hairstylists:
"When you work with shampoo on a serious level, you become quite adept at not eating the shampoo."
...suck on this...you'll feel better.
NO. Your argument is flawed.
Try refuting claims, instead of trying to dodge them.
Well you're wrong - they have the right to publicise Apple's *official response* without having to breathlessly checking Apple's site every 10 minutes to see if Apple reduced prices.
I wonder how many people Apple milked when it was still charging $250.
Any way here to your question. The original g3's did not have USB, they were the last of the Apple 'beige boxes'. They had the same chasis as the 7200, 7300, 7500 and 7600, which were all PowerMacs with PowerPC 60x processors. As far as I know all of the pretty Macs (read "not biege") have USB, furthermore I think that Apple stopped shipping non-USB keyboards around the same time these pretty macs were the only ones selling.
As for your thoey concerning upgraded PowerMacs of old... well that remains to be seen. I have a 9500 that origanally had a 603e@120Mhz, but I now have a G3@450Mhz in it. I have heard that it was possible to install older versions of OSX on machines modded like this - but I have yet to try it becuase I do not have a copy of OSX (finically impaired). I could get a USB card for my 9500 and then I think that technically it would fit all the requirments for 10.3 - but again I don't want to spend the money. I will certianly let /. know when and if I get 10.3 on my time impiared Mac.
This is as bad as the old V-8 Mustang-IIs that required the engine be dropped to replace the back two spark plugs. Even the game boy advance has a user replaceable battery (albeit behind a screw).
;^) There's nasty bolt in the top of my Jeep's Tremec T-150 tranny that's a real bear to get to, so I just busted a hole in the body big enough for a rachet wrench, and voila!
There some reason you feel you always need to hit on all cylinders? Or that you can't rip a couple of holes in the firewall?
Which is the whole issue here, of course. I still haven't quite finished bolting my iBook up after upgrading the hard drive (and it's trivially worse for the wear). I wonder where the PRAM battery is on that monster; shoulda checked while I had the chance. And the PRAM on my Powerbook 1400 required flipping off the lid/screen and cracking the "body" in two. Nobody wants duct tape holding together their iBook body for easy hard drive access or 1400 for PRAM replacements.
I've often wondered if the way autos are put together isn't a result of some mechanics' union to get business "where it should be". It looks like Apple's doing the same thing [as my conspiracy theory] -- uncessarily difficult tasks which, to them, equal pure profit. Great analogy if Pony II's really had to have the engine dropped. That's madness.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
Article 2, Article 2, Article 2, and in a few instances, Article 3.
Only with ni-cad, and to a lesser extent ni-mh.
Behaviour like this kills li-ion, lots.
Cry me a river girl.
MS releases product with known life of 18 months and doesn't tell anyone = teh flames.
Apples does it = teh apologists.
This is a fatal design flaw. The battery should be as easy to replace as any walkman. Press and slide -> remove old battery -> insert new battery -> replace cover. Anything else is Apple farking the consumer.
But hey, you guys bought the hype. Apple wins. One more reason why I don't buy products from a company that hire Jeff Goldblum as a spokesman. That guy just stinks of poser intellectual.
If Apple didn't use USB, SCSI, IDE, PCI they wouldn't get any hardware for their platform.
Apple can't make every bit of hardware for their computer - it would make their computers more expensive. Without using industry standards, they would get a very limited choice of manufacturers.
I have a PJBox 100 from 1997 - it was the first hard drive portable jukebox back in the day. It has serial# **4**, so it is arguably the 4th oldest such device ever offered to the public.
The battery is replaceable, but there has been no need. It still provides 10 hours of playback time. Moreover, it is a standard battery type, widely available for about $25. This has been the typical experience with most folks on the PJBox mailing list that I'm on.
If Compaq could engineer this back in '97, surely Apple could do better.
Jonathan
i have the lovely job of dealing with the general public and repairing their computers at a large ugly retail store. Anyway to get to the point: one of the major problems with laptops is the batteries. People often come in within a year complaining their batteries hold little charge. Most manufacturers carry little or no warranty on the battery.
But I'v have become a little cynical of the customers, I don't think most of them treat their batteries properly. First charge is very important, as well as the first couple of times draining it completely. After that drain the battery once in a while. Never do partial charges.
I'm sure those rules apply to the batteries in most electrical devices, meaning those rules apply to iPods as well (I know some for some batteries sales people like to say there is no memory, but bah, don't trust them!)...
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Daniel
http://people.cinn.ca/daniel/
http://das.doit.wisc.edu/neistatsdirtysecret.txt
help out.
don't use your ipod outside in the winter (if you live in an area that has winter). the battery will go bad much much faster.
i guess this is probably obvious to most of you.
help out.
> Now they're complaining that the battery doesn't last forever. I find it amazing
> that after Li-ION batteries have been out for years that people don't understand
> that these things don't last forever.
Damn straight! These guys should count their blessings. The battery simply dies-- at least it doesn't catch on fire like the old Powerbook 5300!
Buy a new one!
You just wait until they figure out that they can pull a Motorola or a Lexmark with the battery. Oh, and sealing the case to prevent "unauthorized repair."
I see a bunch of people saying "replacement is $99!"... it's pretty clear you didn't follow the link and read...
"Our Message:
In September of 2003 the battery in my first generation ipod would hold a charge for no longer than one hour. I brought the iPod into the Apple store in Manhattan for repair and was told they do not currently offer a battery replacement program and my best option was to buy a new ipod. I then called the Apple Care 800 number regarding this issue and was told the same. I then sent my ipod to the Apple Executive office addressed to Steve Jobs with a note explaining my situation and requesting a replacement battery. The Apple Executive office contacted me via telephone to explain that Apple does not repair or replace dead ipod batteries and that it was policy of the company to recommend to the customer to purchase a new ipod when the battery fails. I then looked into and purchased a third party replacement battery, this battery was not endorsed by Apple. After the complicated installation my ipod did not work at all, even when it was plugged in. I then purchased a new ipod for $400.00.
In response to this my brother Van and I made the short film "iPod's Dirty Secret" After we finished production of the film, but not necessarily in response to it, Apple began offerring a battery replacement program for the ipod for a fee of $99 and an extended warranty for the ipod for $59.
We think Apple's new policy is fair. Our movie is a documentation of our experience.
-Casey Neistat "