Slashdot Mirror
Military Develops Liquid Body Armor
kai5263499 writes "Military.com has an article about a new liquid body armor the U.S. Army Research Laboratory has developed. According to Dr. Eric Wetzel, the project coordinator: 'The key component of liquid armor is a shear thickening fluid. STF is composed of hard particles suspended in a liquid. The liquid, polyethylene glycol, is non-toxic, and can withstand a wide range of temperatures. Hard, nano-particles of silica are the other components of STF. This combination of flowable and hard components results in a material with unusual properties'."
- Man in liquid armor
walking down the lab hallway.
- Man
in liquid armor enduring heat.
- Liquid
armor on half a face
Your tax dollars at work.This is joey, the lab assistant, going on a coffee run.
This test killed a few of our volunteers, but after many tries we finally worked out all the kinks.
We do half the face in case the armor blinds the test subject, at least he'll have one good eye left. (Lessons learned from the "heat" test, we apply the same principal for the genitals as well.)
Like the RIAA?
The package said "Windows XP or better. Pentium Class Processor or better"... So I got a Mac with OS X
How is that non toxic? Ethylene Glycol is the antifreeze you find in coolant and windshield wiper fluid and I assure you it is very toxic. Does the "poly" really change it all that much?
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
Lots of salt or huge silica gel packets.
Here is a picture of a soldier wearing some
It sounds like it works on the same principle that making a dive into your swimming pool is different from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge into the Pacific. Nifty stuff, although it seems that its resistance to stabbing has to be called into question when you consider that it's also sewable.
Dog is my co-pilot.
I seem to remember a gradeschool experiment where we mixed cornstarch and water in a pan and tried to slap it. Thanks to the starch, the stuff would just kinda slap you back. Is this body armor kinda doing the same thing then?
Armor that is lighter and more flexible would be more comfortable to wear. This makes it more likely to be worn. I would expect to eventually see designer suits utilizing this stuff to be bought up by politicians, rap stars, etc. Bascially anyone who would be interested in an armor plated limo.
The skate couriers in the novel wore armor based on this principle. Flexible, but with an increasing resistance curve like a catcher's mitt. It's good that it's lightweight, because if it's too bulky to do your job in, it's not really useful.
I imagine this could be combined with a chem warfare suit (maybe with build-in cooling) to make an ABC system for the footsoldier that's actually practical.
the soldiers could have goldfish companions put in their armor to accompany them into battle.
Business Voyeur
Very similar to Smart Mass Thinking Puddy. Is the military beginning to read /. and buy products from ThinkGeek for inspiration for R&D?
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
"sintered armorgel: feels like gritty jello, protects like a stack of telephone books."
Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
In my sharp shooting class (yes really) the instructor was telling us about Kevlar. Apparently, it works by distributing the force of impact because it's a lattice of stiff plasticy stuff. Problem is, if you hit it or drop it, you crack that lattice and if you get hit in that spot, the Kevlar won't do much.
He was bemoaning the fact that the army went from 25 cent metal helmets to $50 Kevlar ones because all you had to do was drop it a few times to render it useless. Over the course of a few years, it's pretty likely that it will get banged around quite a bit.
Back to the point, this stuff sounds like it's still linked to Kevlar. I wonder if it still relies on Kevlar's properties and is vulnerable to the same problems.
Blaze a trail to the New World
Mix corn starch and water to form a paste. Stir slowly, or pour the mixture, and it acts like a liquid. Stir fast, or hit the surface, and it "breaks" like a solid, dissipating energy.
Definatly Innovative, If successful, I think it will definatly serve well in domestic incidences. It will probably help to stop more 9mm and small automatic arms (tech9, uzi).
.357 or something like an AK or M16,
Against a rifle or 357 I dont know how well it will hold up, kevlar is pretty much inneffective to anything above
The bullets size and velocity are just too migh at anything but extremly long range.
In the next james bond movie they will use this stuff in breast implants to make SUPER boobs.
Don't know about liquid armor, but I imagine if I was in an active war zone, I might fill my own armor with liquid!
Just a non-newtonian fluid. Go mix cornstarch and water, borax and something (forget what, its been a while since 6th grade science, dishsoap maybe) or get some of this. You get the same basic thing, but the point of this is that it probably doesn't shatter under the impact of a bullet... I've been kicking around the idea of something like this for a while myself actually, but more along the lines of that ferrous oil stuff they use in super high end variable shock absorbers that has a current applied to it and hardens when it senses a projectile. Not sure how to go about sensing that though, so a passive option i probably better.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Like silly-putty or cornstarch and water.
It's actually surprising no-one has figured this out sooner. (or maybe the idea has been around a long time but the perfect materials were the key).
-... ---
What's the damage if this stuff does get penetrated? Is it worse for the wound than a bullet passing all the way through?
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
As a former member of the US armed forces I had to wear a kevlar vest from time to time. The vests I wore hindered movement considerably. They were not that heavy, but the inflexibility was the worst part. As I was finishing my term new vest were just making their way into use that incorporated ballistic plates (steel I think, maybe ceramic) to actually stop bullets. The vest I wore were only said to stop fragments not a direct bullet impact. The downside to the newer vests was heavier weight. If they can make the vest more flexible, lighter weight, and have better stopping great.
Our service members need every advantage they can get. Wether or not you agree with the politics that puts our troops in harms way a person must be very anti-American to not want them all to come home again.
That is all for my rant. Time to go home for the day. :)
the_crowbarHave you read the Moderator Guidelines
Actually the article says that stab resistance is better than standard armor.
J
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
You mean this stuff I'm drinking right now is only one atom from that flammable gas that can explode into a big fireball! And that additional atom, Oxygen, is highly flammable too! My glass of water may just spontaneously combust into a huge fireball in my stomach!
Arg, there should be a Chem 101, Phys 101, and Bio 101 prereq before posting on Slashdot. In chem, minor changes make a BIG difference.
Brian Ellenberger
But does it protect like a stack of phonebooks? :)
Why has it taken so long for the military to start experimenting with this stuff? I must have been all of five years old when I made the connection between starch and water's impact-absorbing-fluid properties and its flexible armor potential.
Oh well, better late than never!
So if a friend gives you a little punch in the shoulder, will it break his hand?
Just make sure you drink plenty of water before getting into a hostile situation. Or beer. Soldiers love beer.
Sadly this invention was too late to save Pat Tillman. Armor like this could save lives, and that's what it's all about. I'm all for it.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
How heavy is it? How hot does it make the wearer? Can a Private break it?
This guy is way out there
Wow, I wondered when someone would find a good use for Ooblick. (Besides the standard party trick.)
But I bet you're the kind of guy who associates bukkake with everything...
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
So if you pour this stuff on, how do you get it off? Some other compound? Chip it off?
Will there be warnings like freezers? ("Do not remove armor with sharp implement.")
'The key component of liquid armor is a shear thickening fluid. STF is composed of hard particles suspended in a liquid. The liquid, polyethylene glycol, is non-toxic, and can withstand a wide range of temperatures. Hard, nano-particles of silica are the other components of STF. This combination of flowable and hard components results in a material with unusual properties'
Sounds very high-tech and all that. But will it stop bullets from piercing my tender hide?
Am I the only one thinking of Shield Belts? I wonder if this tech will inspire the creation of new weapons.
And I can only imagine what would happen if you made a flexible weapon such as a bullwhip out of this stuff. Does the material only become rigid for penatration type deformation or will any high-velocity change do?
For a scientific paper on the subject, see Advanced Body Armor Utilizing Shear Thickening Fluids, by Y. S. Lee, R. G. Egres Jr. and N. J. Wagner, all of the Center for Composite Materials and Dept. of Chemical Engineering, U. of Delaware, and E. D. Wetzel of the Army Research Laboratory, Weapons and Materials Research Directorate Aberdeen Proving Ground.
For a University of Delaware Press Release (with photos), see here.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
What we have here is super-advanced Silly Putty?
Don't know about polyethylene glycol, but propylene glycol is used as a carrier for flavors. You find it in, among other things, Pyramid Brewing's Apricon Ale
Everything can be beer related, if you try hard enough.
All the Snowcrash quotes left out the best part about the armor: "A bullet will bounce off its arachno-fiber weave like a wren hitting a patio door." Probably not applicable, but damn I love that line... I'm still laughing about it years later.
Also, perhaps this stuff could give stuntmen a whole new level of safety while still giving them a lot of mobility.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I think I can speak for nearly all of us when I say the last thing we want is to see American soldiers die. That's kind of the whole point.
It's oobleck (also "ooblick") armor!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Aquaman!
hello? jhweese!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid
Spending the years of effort it takes to develop something like this OR the time it'll take a couple balistics perks to design and get approval for the use of bigger badder bullets that'll blow the crap out of anyone wearing this wet armor?
I'm holding out for a personal force field personally.
One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
Don't tell the military! They'll really be annoyed they wasted all that money when they could have just used cornstarch.
I was beaten to it...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
I can't believe that no one has mentioned the books by Larry Niven. I forget which one, exactly, but somewhere he describes armor almost exactly like this. It's soft and flexible, until you hit it, and it becomes very hard.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
"Sarge! I gotta crap bad, but I can't!"
:)
"dont panic son, we're into combat soon, oh, and you're on point"
"phhhrrrrrrrrp"
Sorry folks, the below link will get you to the vest i was talking about.
o rt =general_catalog
http://www.galls.com/style.html?style=BP086&ass
Don't know what's wrong with my html today...
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
...this reminds me of something I saw in QUT when I was doing this science thing in Year 10.
:)
The professor demonstrating an experiment had a container of corn flour and water and asked everyone what would happen if he pounded the mix.
The answers were varied but basically were "a huge splat".
When he did thump the mix, nothing happened.
The explanation was that corn flour particles, when suspended in a liquid, will "solidify" when a fast moving mass strikes them due to the unique structure of each individual particle.
I wonder if the ingredients list of the liquid armour mix includes corn flour.
Yeah, but how long until it dries out?
Anybody know if this stuff can be artificially heated or cooled with some portable device? Seems like a Good Idea to me.
Polyethylene glycol's pretty good on one hand: it's dirt cheap, comes in a variety of weights (we have on the shelf in lab average molecular weight PEGs from 200 to 20,000 daltons) and as has been mentioned above is nontoxic. What's bad about PEG is that it degrades fairly easily--it should be stored in the dark and kept cold, at least if you're going to use it as a reagent. This makes me wonder about the shelf life of the armor, although PEG degredation might not be the limiting factor; physical wear and tear might be.
Does this non-toxie liquid stuff mean that if I were to drink it, I would be bulletproof? Wicked!
So they're thinking of putting it in jump boots - once it stiffens up, does it then just become liquid again immediately afterward? Even when hit with a bullet?
For example, in urban combat, you are constantly looking up, and pointing your weapon up. As you crane your neck backward and move your non-firing hand above your head, with a traditional kevlar vest you reach a flexibility limitation. If you then have to contort your body laterally for some reason (and they always arise) your trunk is limited in flexiblity as well.
A vest that could incorporate greater flexiblity and some sort of heat-dissipation mechanism would be a real boon to soldiers who need body armor protection.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
...Silly Putty , but presumably it's hard to impregnate Kevlar with it.
I really don't want to know how this works.
All the Snowcrash quotes left out the best part about the armor: "A bullet will bounce off its arachno-fiber weave like a wren hitting a patio door." Probably not applicable, but damn I love that line... I'm still laughing about it years later.
... but excess perspiration will waft through it like a breeze through a freshly napalmed forest."
But wait -- there's more! -- the really best part of the Snow Crash quote is:
"
Stephenson may have his faults, but he's got the gift for cool similes.
-kgj
-kgj
Where's the -1 disgusting mod when you need it?
Another scientific paper on the subject: "The ballistic impact characteristics of Kevlar (R)
woven fabrics impregnated with a colloidal
shear thickening fluid," JOURNAL OF MATERIALS SCIENCE 38 (2003) 2825 - 2833.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
This is straight off of Army News Service.
And they even have a picture!
I'm just joking, but that's my take on it. LOL.
Oo
As a motorcyclist, the kit I wear has a shit load of armour in it, shoulders, hips, elbows, back, shins, ankles but even with that the inevitable is broken bones when you slam into some street furniture.
If this stuff goes rigid when there's an impact it might just distribute the impulse over a large enough area to reduce the internal injuries.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
All body armour is resistant against what is intended to prevent, not invincible. Bullet proof vests are actually nothing of the sort, they are bullet resistant. Shoot a Type II vest with a 9mm pistol round, it won't penetrate, shoot it with a 5.56mm rifle round, it'll go right through.
So just because something resists stabbing doesn't mean it can't be done. Needles more so. The way a knife or needle works is based of of high pressure on a small amount of surface. Well a needle has a much smaller area to penetrate than a knife thus can achieve more PSI with less input force.
It may not be sewable by hand, it may need a machine with an extra hard needle but so what? BP vests are expensive items as is, it is ok if there are some extra manufacturing costs with this new kind.
Anytime now we'll have weapons that will shoot right through that science fiction book you're engrossed with, plus your kevlar vest, and through your vital parts.
-I am an elective eunuch.
Couple of issues here (avoiding the whole flame aspect):
1) While logistics would be a pain, if the US camped a couple of carrier battle groups off the coast of a given country, they would own the sky and sea in short order. It becomes much easier to keep supplied when you can do that.
2) Iraq had something like the 3rd largest army in the world back in 1991, which the US effectively neutralized in a month or so. Again, airpower is king. The country isn't large or exceptionally modern, but it was quite a military foe.
3) If Iraq is small, then there aren't many countries that are a big military threat. Germany, the UK, israel... the list is small and we're on good terms of most of the strongest countries (coincidence? I think not)
4) The fact that the US hasn't fought a "big" country in years doesn't mean jack with regards to the ability to. I've never mugged someone, that doesn't mean I'm too weak to.
Sure, there's some arrogance from the US on the military front, it makes sense. Like it or not, the US posesses the strongest military force in the world.
Hate us for our culture, politics, whatever, that's an subjective opinion and you are welcome to them. But military strength is an objective thing, and hatred of the States doesn't diminish that.
And yeah, if we fought a united (!) Europe, we could probably be beaten. There are a zillion better reasons not to attack, least of all being that France is a strong ally...
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
True, but many if not most technologies in civilian use today (including our beloved Internet) started as military related research... I'm not saying anything either way about the merits or evils of war, but this argument really isn't at all valid.
-James
Rembember that rubbery black bodyglove under the white armor... ;-)
``L'imagination au povoir.''
I wonder... sewing it at a high speed would probably break the machine, but as long as you keep everything slow, you're fine.
So technically, if you manage to hold that prison guard still while you slowly push the shiv through his armor, it'll work just fine (for you, not the guard). Interesting -- so throwing yourself on the knife might actually be a useful defense!
It reminds me of a fight scene in Dune (was that the movie? -- does anyone remember this?); they had force fields that detected and warded off quick attacks, but allowed a slow entry into the field would be allowed... so the trick to knifing someone was to do it slowly.
There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
The saturated fabric can be soaked, draped, and sewn just like any other fabric.
That's how.
But how does a footbal player turn soldier qualify as a hero, exacty?
I was a soldier, am I a hero? Are football players heroes?
What about Iraqi soldiers, are they heroes?
at certain stages of metabolism, both of the products you and the parent poster mentioned are formed.
In years past, the only treatment was competitive enzyme inhibition via an alcohol drip (that's still the treatment in some places)... though fomepizole (Trade name is Antizol, I believe) is the safest treatment now, and a hell of a lot easier to get than persuading the pharmacy to mix up an ethanol drip.
Ethylene Glycol is a nasty poisoning... and thankfully not that common. I'm pretty thankful that I haven't taken care of a case of that in a few years.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
[PS> The new coffee table autobio The Pythons is great!]
I bought this house and you know I'm boss
Ain't no h'aint gonna run me off
...that we used to mix when I was a kid. It was liquid until pressure was applied at which point it became sort of solid. Cool stuff. I remember "rolling" it into a ball and smacking it with a hammer which caused it to shatter. Then the pieces would "melt" into little puddles. It made the perfect weapon. You could roll it into a hard ball and bean someone with it, after which it would fall onto the ground and melt into the grass. What fun.
We have finally invented personal shields. Another science fiction invention brought to life.
I wonder if they also blow up if hit by a lasgun.
My rights don't need management.
of PEG... it's called Golytely... here's a bit of info.
It's commonly used by gastroenterologists to clean out the colon prior to endoscopy. You have to drink an entire gallon...it's usually referred to as a "bowel prep."
To those of us familiar with it, it's also affectionately known as "GoHeavily," "GoFrequently," or "GoEndlessly." I've also seen it used to treat bad constipation... ingestion of the required amount virtually guarantees an impressive "code brown."
Yes, I realize that's waaaaay more than you wanted to know. Sorry.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
This has more uses besides war - as the article says, it could also be used for police and prison guards.
I don't think anybody is downplaying the loss of life nor dimishing their status as heros.
Simply, Pat Tillman was a public figure who gave up a promising NFL career to do something that he believed in. To him, the cause was sufficient enough that he gave up a $3.6 million dollar contract. And he, like the others, felt the cause sufficient enough to put their lives on the line.
The irony is that the announcement of "liquid armor" comes on the same day that he lost his life.
I have mixed views on the pictures of the flag drapped caskets on the plane. On one hand, they showed the price being paid for this war very vividly. Those individuals are no longer mere body counts but rather images that will stick in the minds of all Americans. On the other hand, the fallen and their families should be shown proper respect. But, I believe very few people would disagree that they were all heros who fought for what they believed in.
The "Liquid Body Armor" sounds absolutely amazing. It is only for military right now, but I am sure that in about ten to fifteen years it will get mainstream and everyone will be able to drink it.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
When I was a kid we called this Magic Mud.
Basically, you mix water and cornstarch and the result is a substance that feels hard when you poke it, but drowns your GI-JOE's like quicksand. It's nice to see the military has caught up to afterschool science.
Am I the only one that initially read this as "STFU" Armor?
I'd buy some!!!
Love your country always, but respect your government only when it deserves it. -- Mark Twain
So what's the max DEX bonus?
Yes, I am that much of a geek.
I definitely want the Al Queda fuckers to die. Miserably. I just don't believe that Iraq has anything to do with that, though the foreign guerillas streaming into Iraq to shoot at Americans can all fucking eat shit and die.
After all, liquid courage has been a part of the military since the beginning of time.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
ThinkGeek also includes an explaination on how their putty works. Not sure how much it applies precisely to this body armor, but it's interesting nonetheless.
J
Apparently that's what "Overrated" is for....
And the brethren went away edified.
Iron Man is due out in 2005, this is perfect timing.
Ethylene glycol is not only animal toxic, it also did a number on an evergreen tree. I have these wood timber front steps that are starting to rot, and a landscaping dude wanted 7K to replace them in stone, and I read that a mixture of ethylene glycol (anti-freeze) and boric acid makes a good wood preservative, and the steps are holding up OK but this tree really took a hit. The tree is not quite dead yet and I am hoping it still comes around.
Of course, as oppose to non-nano particles.
I have a 12 kg particle of carbon
Neil Stephenson talked about this in snow crash. At last, we have sintered Armogel. All I need now is a sword!
This could also have some very valuable applications where protective garmentation for sports are required... If bullets can't penetrate the armor, it would easily protect against hockey sticks and pucks, collisions with trees, and, of course, smacking pavement at a high velocity.
;)
Never mind how a jacket of the stuff would affect the school bully...
The Penguin Producer
...made by Cyberdyne Systems?
hmmm, this might sound funny, but in seriousness, couldnt a criminal just equip himself with a super soaker and spray the officer down then fire on him since this stuff is water soluble?
Remember those? You could stretch them forever, but if you punched it, you'd break you hand it was so hard! :)
ON DELETE CASCADE
> His pre-war job was to play a silly game for millions of dollars; how is that significant?
You missed the point. The reason Tillman is a hero is that he turned down millions to fight for his country, and protect freedom. The fact he played football has nothing to do with the fact he was a selfless person, who died to protect his nation (someone who lead by example, and died to do so). I am Canadian and I can recognize this, and I respect it as much as I would respect Mother Teresa for saving lives performing selfless acts of heroism in her own way, risking her life to save others.
The terrorists killed thousands on 9/11. And they have killed a hero now. They have only made a martyr.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
That's what Tillman did. We have parents complaining about their kids having to go fight when they only signed on to the service so they could get money for college.
Tillman cut out of a 3.6 million dollar contract to go fight a war for 18 thousand a year.
He was never over there for the money and no one can ever question he wanted to be there. That's what makes him a hero worth singling out.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Wouldn't the liquid soaked in the kevlar eventually pool? Even if it were a thick gel or paste, which I'm not sure if they could be considered as liquids, settling is sure to cause a problem. (think of silly putty sculptures and how they sag and flatten over time) It just seems to be getting this stuff evenly distributed over the entire area of the vest would be a difficult task.
Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise
This kinda reminds me of cornstarch and water mixtures we used to play with as kids. It's liquid if you move slowly through it, but it hardens into a solid when forcefully agitated.
;)
Great stuff at parties, you can put your hand under it an hit it with a hammer, and the properties of the mix are surprisingly effective at absorbing the shock and preventing broken digits
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
The article stated that the impact was by a "fragment simulating particle", but it was not stated that the image was simulated. Indeed, looking at the larger version of the picture reveals that it's a photo, grid-like background notwithstanding. In particular note the softness of the photo and the wispy strands of kevlar hanging around the edges. I doubt that a computer generated graphic would have either of these characteristics.
I can't find ublix anywhere on the web (although I'm certain I've found stuff before searching for the word ublix). Anyway, an ublix is a non-newtonian fluid. You can make an ublix at home with corn starch and water. It's really fun stuff. It flows like a thick liquid, you can rest your hand on it and it will sink in, but if you hit it with your fist, it will harden in proportion to the force you apply and so your punch will go nowhere. If you let your hand sink in, ball it up, then try to pull it out quickly, the ublix won't budge and your hand will stay stuck. It's a lot of fun, and it is exactly what I thought of when I read the slashdot headline. Here is a link to a short description of the mixture. It's not much help, but I'm hoping someone out there can post a better link.
> I'm an intelligence analyst in the 19th SF, and our unit has taken several casualties in Afghanistan.
Well first off, let me tip my hat to you and your unit, and your fallen. I think you guys are really doing something special by protecting the free world from evil.
> That Pat Tillman received more publicity than others somewhat unnerves me. He's a hero, no doubt, but no moreso than Sgt. Romero or Sgt. Vance, both from my group.
I do not wish to detract from anyone you know who died fighting for freedom. My mention of Tillman was only because I was moved by his personal sacrifice; first he gave up $3.6 mil/yr., then he gave up his time and blood/sweat/tears to get on the Rangers, then he served in Iraq, and then in Afghanistan, and then he gave his life.
> Tillman would have appreciated being made something special either.
Well that is likely true, and that makes him even more of a hero.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
It depends on if this stuff improves abrasion resistance - if it's not better than Kevlar, you're better off just adding another layer of the stuff.
Granted, if it thickens enough with a small enough amount of force, it might be terribly useful in protecting a motorcyclist from broken bones.
"STF is composed of hard particles suspended in a liquid. The liquid, polyethylene glycol, is non-toxic, and can withstand a wide range of temperatures. Hard, nano-particles of silica are the other components of STF."
:)
So you really CAN stiffen up a bucket of spit with a handful of buckshot, if it's fine enough.
"We would first like to put this material in a soldier's sleeves and pants..."
So the hookers of the future will ask soldiers, "Is that shear-thickening liquid armor in your pants, or are you just glad to see me?"
I remember this stuff from when I was a kid. It was in a toy called Stretch Armstrong (obligatory link) Soft and pliable when you pull and push him slowly but hit him fast and it hurt like hell. Of course we all ran around demonstrating how soft his was and then getting our buddies to punch him hard. Damn that hurt.
Try not to forget that the foreign guerillas streaming into Iraq are human, too. I'm sure they see themselves as a resistance or a liberating force trying to help an ally against a common foe. (It's worth noting that they don't have to have the majority of Iraq be opposed to the American occupation to hold this point of view.) Talking this way about them is a step toward the same sort of hateful mindset that drives Al Qaeda. Yes, they do want you to "eat shit and die," but responding to this with the exact same attitude just escalates the conflict.
The best solution is the one that keeps as many people alive as possible on both sides of the fence in the long run. Granted, this opinion isn't very popular because it's a subtle one. It means that you look for tactics that try to stem the tide of guerillas into Iraq rather than one that waits and attacks them after they've already blown up a Humvee. On the other hand, it also means you can't play Santa Claus and let all prisoners free - many people can and will try to attack American soldiers and other Iraqis if they are released. They do need to be permanently imprisoned, or executed if necessary.
But just going in and hating and killing is a bad idea. Even if you don't find that attitude morally objectionable, it's simply a stupid policy for an occupying force to have. We learned this first hand in Vietnam, where approaching the war with this attitude ultimately caused us to lose it. Israel is currently learning this the hard way, too. It's just not possible to make people like you when you're holding them at gunpoint.
All that said, I do agree that I would rather see every Iraqi insurgent die than see one more American soldier or Iraqi civilian or police officer die. It's just that even more than that I'd like to see nobody dying.
Actually it came from the militray.com newsletter. (Today's edition).
-Wes
The modern challenge for our military is not war mongering - we rule at making war - but peace keeping - that is respecting people and serving a population while being vulnerable to rogue dissendents.
This raises the need to identify the location of a stray bullet in real time.
Imagine a self organized network of wearable computers with pretty basic microwave doppler shift detectors.
Even a single bullet fired would create a doppler shifted frequency in a reflected microwave signal, and the network could compare notes and triangulate the trajectory - even calculating a return fire path and indicate if not photograph or return at least rubber bullets on the perpetrator.
That would be awesome defensive gear.
AIK
Thank you :)
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
He would have said something about slapping down a flame war when I was adding wood to the fire? Nah, try again AC.
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
But everyone who sleeps in their armor will have flat spots until calisthenics.
Yes, soldiers are dying. Not very many, considering that an entire country was occupied (No, I'm not minimizing the deaths. 50 years ago we'd be happy to take a country with 20,000 deaths. the 800 or so coalition deaths are small relative to that.)
Sure, there are other things than power. I never stated otherwise. But since politics is collective will, and military action is an extension of politics... it would be silly to discount.
A carrier battle group generally controls the airspace within a few hundred miles, unless another CBG is in the neighborhood. There are many historical precedents for this. Where's your contrary evidence?
I was at home. The Cole, however, was in a friendly harbor, in peacetime. It was neither in an active battlegroup, nor on duty. How is this a an angument?
"Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B.
You forgot something. You may have beat Iraq, but now who's bleeding? US soldiers die daily in iraq you idiot ! Power!=Arrogance.
Yes and for each one down about 10 or 15 Sunni or non-Iraqi arab go down. Hey you got something right... power does not equal arrogance.
It provides a larger target for the enemy to attack. Where were you when USS Cole was bombed?
Assuming the enemy can get there. Personally I think I was in bed when the Cole was hit. By the way.. it was in port.
The conventional forms of warfare are Gone. Kaput!
You know what pisses me off most? Not naive idiots like you, but that George Bush was a pussy. If we had treated Iraq like we did Germany or France at the end of WWII there would be *no* uprisings, car bombs, or anyother getting out of line. But no. Jr. had to go and do a 'humane' war. Dont bomb infrastructure.. dont bomb civies. Uncle.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Bullets.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
There is a wonderful demonstration of how this works. Make a wet paste of cornstarch. You'll notice if you take a stick or even your finger and stir it around very slowly... it will act like a viscous liquid. It flows around your stick and the path left in the paste slowly fills back in. Now try moving the stick quickly through the paste and it suddenly becomes solid, the wet gloss of it's surface disappears, and the paste cracks and breaks like a hard material. Literally the force applied to the paste shifts it from liquid to solid state and upon release of stress it becomes liquid again.
This makes for a variety of interesting properties. A protective shield of this material was used as part of an engineering experiment at UCI in 1978, when a box of specific size was thrown off the engineering building and an egg in the box survived.
Genda
There's a new version of the Shear Thickening Fluid armor that's due to be released soon, dubbed the "Ultra" version, or STFU.
the rest is silence...
If you'd like to replicate the characteristics of this product for yourself, go to your kitchen and grab the corn starch.
Take corn starch and pour about 1 tablespoon into a small bowl, then add a small amount of cold water, about a teaspoon or so. These amounts are estimates, use more or less of each to reach a desired consistancy.
Mix it up, and you'll start to see the similarities.
If you let the 'mixture' sit, it will remain liquid, but the moment you stir it, it'll harden. Pour it into your hand and play with it, as you play with it you'll notice its a solid substance, the instant you stop playing with it, it'll turn back into a liquid and run through your fingers.
Pretty cool stuff, pretty fun, and cheap to do!
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
I don't have any salt, you insensitive clod!
paintball
different industry, say condoms, will it be able to help me when my sweet heart still wants to go and I'm out of gas, will it stay hard?
Only if you slap it hard enough.
Like what I said? You might like my music
...I can feel relatively safe against broken blades in my fencing gear, but still use a sewing needle to restitch the straps when those threads work loose.
Mind, it's a really sharp sewing needle, but still. (And for some reason, dental floss holds up longer than thread.)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
"You know what pisses me off most? Not naive idiots like you, but that George Bush was a pussy. If we had treated Iraq like we did Germany or France at the end of WWII there would be *no* uprisings, car bombs, or anyother getting out of line. But no. Jr. had to go and do a 'humane' war. Dont bomb infrastructure.. dont bomb civies. Uncle."
That's right. Because, as we know, the repressive tactics the Soviets used in Eastern Europe translated into "no uprisings, car bombs, or anyother getting out of line".
Sometimes, I'm ashamed of my fellow countrymen. Like the majority who *still* believe that Iraq was involved in 9/11.
they've just demonstrated that it only takes a couple bombs on a train track to derail the entire government.
The bombs didn't kick PP out of office, PP trying to pin the blame on ETA instead of Al Quaeda(despite all evidence to the contrary) and using 3/11 for political gain is what handed victory to the PSOE. PP was already slipping in the polls leading up to the attacks; Aznar's shameful behaviour turned it into a rout.
Maybe if you had been paying attention instead of watching Fox News, you'd realize that.
Spain wants to withdraw their armed forces because they had a train bombed?
Spain wants to withdraw their armed forces because Iraq is a clusterfnck and their people never wanted to be there in the first place.
Again, maybe if you had been paying attention instead of watching Fox News, you'd realize that.
In Iraq the battle was possible without having to play defense
Iraq went easy because the CIA bought off Hussein's top generals and got them to order their troops to standdown. Of course, since we never actually defeated and disarmed Iraq's army... we're experiencing technical difficulties now with the populace.
If you aren't being targetted for attacks
Other countries have always had a problem with terrorism. The US just joined the club.
if you aren't providing money
European gov'ts, in general, allocate a greater % of their budget towards foreign aid than the United States.
and if you aren't powerful enough to have an effect with your own sanctions against us
I guess you missed the recent round of Trade War Chicken that Bush lost against the EU?
Our government was hit directly, the difference is we hit back.
Yeah, we hit back, let the perp get away and then started hitting the neighbour with whom we had a personal score to settle and who had nothing to do with the actual crime.
That's been going on in Japan for quite some time now...
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Ok, so everyone's caught on to the fact that it prevents fast motions, and allows slow ones. So, can you run? How fast is too fast?
By far most of the people who oppose the war are not American, and their primary reason to oppose it is the tens of thousands of Iraqis that were and are killed. Not that most people want the American soldiers dead, but those 700 are a much lesser concern, especially since they did do most of all that killing.
The tendency of Americans to completely forget/not care that there even were any Iraqis hurt is maybe the most disturbing thing about this country to me.
... Iraqi soldiers didn't nor do the people who fight for their safety in their own country (for you: Iraq's not Pat's country nor yours).
Every US soldier has a kevlar vest, none of their opponents has. Oh and please stop the hero crap. He was a US soldier, invaded another country and killed people in their own country. So, how is killing people in Iraq protecting any kind of 'freedom' in the US? Perhaps you should watch some other news channels than Fox news, for example some european news channels.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
Israel is more likely to explode bombs in the US by smuggling them in then to try and launch them from missiles. They have a very large spy network in the US and it would be very easy to smuggle in nuclear bombs and plant them at the hundred largest cities in the US. Let them all go at once and we are pretty much sunk.
The worry about israel is not so much that they see us a threat (after all they suckle on our teats) it's that they are a rougue nation which believes that international law does not apply to them.
evil is as evil does
Candidate Kerry's family owns an SUV, according to him.
"Kerry thought for a second when asked whether his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, had a Suburban at their Ketchum, Idaho, home. Kerry said he owns and drives a Dodge 600 and recently bought a Chrysler 300M. He said his wife owns the Chevrolet SUV.
"'The family has it. I don't have it,' he said."
Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He
I suppose the same could be said of the Gulfstream private jet he uses.
Taking stuff apart since 1969 (TM)
And here I thought we were going to start seeing robots with razors for fingers any moment....
the specialty that studies weird flowing behaviour is called rheology. Honey is viscous but given time , it flattens out. It's still a 'normal' substance.
Mayonnaise is 'extra hard' when treated softly: the mini mountainscape in the pot can stay for months. But it's much softer than honey when you apply force. Silly putty flows when treated softly, but freezes when you apply force(specifically, it bounces).
So at first sight, the new STF thingy looks like SSP (super silly putty). For some reason military preferred some other name over SSP. Pity. But to be fair, there's more params.
Ummm... no shit.
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
I recall the 'karatand' in the book Stand on Zanzibar. It was a soft glove that would become rigid when hit. So the bearer would stick his hand between a door that slams shut, and he would have an instant fist iron in a fist fight
ooops.. it was very late when I posted that.. clearly I
meant Japan, not France. Both of those countries were
basically hammered into submission to the point where they
had no will left to fight.
See correction - meant Japan & Germany. In any event, I said
nothing about the Soviet side of Europe, but if you want
to drag them into it.. they had what..1 'uprsing'.. the
Prague Spring.
The point is both countries were crushed to the point there
was no fight left in them. What we did in Iraq was to
crush the military (yes you can debate how many are acting
as guerillas now). But we left the rest of the country
intact. Remember that to some what we view 'humanity' is
viewed as 'weakness'.
Maybe you are hypersensitive?
> You're disgusting. It is you who misses the point. To Pat, it wasn't about money. You lessen his sacrifice when you equate it to money.
When someone is selfless, you are correct that money never enters their minds. But the chance to make millions or fight for your country... that is the mark of a selfless hero -- the choice of service over selfishness.
Let me tell you why Pat Tillman is a hero: he was the reluctant hero. He didn't want the press machine behind his decision to serve. These facts all contribute to his hero status, in my mind.
I can't say anything about any other soldier because I don't know each story. I hear about heroes and then I hear stories about Jessica Lynch, which were hype-machine stories. She was nearly killed a few times by Americans. But the press labeled her a hero for surviving the horrible Iraqi treatment (which was a farce because she even said so herself that they saved her life on numerous occasions). Maybe she is a hero for surviving the friendly fire...
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
A flash-back from my childhood. Silly Putty was a commercial example of a shear-thickening visco-elastic fluid. Under normal pressure it would flow like goo, but give it a sudden yank and it would turn rigid and snap leaving a clean shear plane. I suspect they're working along similar lines to develop this body armor enhancement. Also, I suspect "liquid" is just market-speak. "Fluid" would probably be a more accurate description.
> He was a US soldier, invaded another country and killed people in their own country.
I agree with this statement, to a point. I am pretty much against the Iraq war; the US is committed, so the whole thing has pretty much become another Vietnam. I don't look at soldiers to place blame, I look at the Commander in Chief.
> So, how is killing people in Iraq protecting any kind of 'freedom' in the US?
War is hell.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Here's an analogy I think is good. Jump out over a swimming pool about a foot above it laterally so you do a soft belly flop. Doesn't sting too much does it? Now do a belly flop from 50 ft ;)
...live and learn. Might want to increase that gradually until you get the point. If you don't, well there's something to be said for natural selection.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Democrat or Republican it doesn't matter. If you believe the Democratic Party would not have attacked Iraq you are very naive. Ignoring the rhetoric, there is no real difference between the Democratic and Republic parties, both are for big business. Clinton de-regulated industry far more than Reagon ever did.
Removing Bush from office, while needed, would not make much of a change. It would take much more than this to fix things, including replacing most of Congress, state legislatures and governors, and finally mayors and the city councils in the larger cities. Additional strong political parties as well as more independent candidates would also help.
As for attacking Iraq, this would have happened regardless of who is President for one reason. September 11th. The government had to show that it was doing something. Afghanistan wasn't a newsworthy a target, so Iraq was chosen.
Personally, I have no problem with attacking Iraq. What I do have a problem with was it took over ten years after the first Gulf War to remove Saddam from power and the excuse given for the attacking.
It was complete idiocy to leave Saddam in power to balance a perceived threat from Iran. Many of the soldiers I know who came back from the first Gulf War complained about this and even warned that we would have to do it again a decade or two later. In fact it aided the extremists in recruiting new members due in part to our increased presence in the Middle East to contain Saddam, although thats not saying our presense would not have been there anyway, it would have been smaller if we removed him the first time.
in 1967 and 1968 at Ohio State University, I researched and used this property of thixotropes as both an acoustic coupler and as a high-pass filter. My department (Welding Engineering) was doing research on non-destructive testing of concrete highways -- contractors got paid for the average depth of the concrete emplaced, (nominally nine inches) and that had always been tested and documented with core samples.
.5 microsecond pulse gives a long train of harmonics athat were not only not useful to my purpose, but were, in fact a distraction.) It also filtered out the low frequency multi-path reflections within the concrete.
We attempted to do it with a sonar method. Basiclly, we whacked the concrete with a half microsecond, 2Mhz pulse from barium ferrite crystals mounted rigidly in a big aluminum ring, and measured the time in and out.
Problems were the aggregate nature of concrete, impedance of the interface, and both physical and acoustic coupling in and out.
I discovered that a tube of a hair grooming product called "Groom and Clean" rang when tapped. Curious as to why, and having all these neat acoustic toys to play with in our lab, I discovered several things.
First, what thixotropes are, (Groom and Clean was primarily methyl cellulose suspended in water) second, what other similar materials existed, third, what cheaper materials were available (bentonite) and what the stuff was good for.
All thixotropes have the property of flowing like liquids when moved gently., and acting like glass when shocked. IOW, you can stir it, but if you fire a projectile at it, or simply whack it with a hammer, it will shatter like flint or a big chunk of glass in a characteristic 'conchoidal' fracture. the key feature is though, that it *immediately* slumps into a liquid again!
OK, why is this? The composite material is small flakes of a wettable, but insoluble crystalline material. In bentonite it's plain old ordinary kaolin type clay, with a particular sheetlike structure. When this is wetted, and suspended in water, (I found early on, that plain old antifreese worked better, but I had trouble enough squeezing any cash out of the administrator, without having to beg for a 55 gal drum of propylene glycol), the result is just a big tub of gray glop (bear in mind these are all scientific terms of art.)
A projectile, or more to the point, in my research, any fast-onset shock, turned the plates up on edge, more quickly than they could flow out of the way of each other. The flakes, in touching each other, produced a temporary rigid matrix that acted like glass, or flint (both super-viscous liquids)
In retrospect, the intuitive leap required to soak a fabric in this stuff, and use it as armor should have been obvious, but it was not the focus of my interest, or needs. Oh well, the University would have had patent anyway, since I was just a lowly bench researcher
At any rate, the end result was that I could use it as a pysical acoustic coupler (the gooey characteristic) under my big aluminum ring, and and the glop also acted as an impedance transformer for the 2Mhz 'bong' from the piezo-electric crystals, because very high frequency pulses would pass through, selectively, more easily than the low frequency rumbles and internal reflections from inside the aluminum block. (a Fourier analysis for a single
The receiver, in a close fitting hole in the ring, got slathered on the sides and end with the bentonite as well. Before the drillers mud improvements, our oscilloscope had a lot of 'grass' that made spotting the echo difficult, and often times impossible. Knowing the mean trasnmission times thruogh various types of concrete was helpful, but not definitive. Our new ability to clean up both the input signal (the bong!) and the received echo made the return signal much more obvious in the now much reduced 'grass' on the oscilloscope.
I had previously worked with concrete (as the scion of a big readi-mix c
I'm armed and I haven't changed my patch, so don't start with me -- you *know* how I get!
Mirror anyone?
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
> You all clearly know he didn't want the fanfare, and yet the media imposes it anyway!
Nobody can control the love or hatred of the people. The best examples of humanity are etched into history, because they motivate us. The worst people are also there, as a reminder of how things can go horribly wrong. Tillman is a hero, and you can't control it. So just accept it.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Right. And the Palestinians so obey the laws. Really. They accept the roadmap unconditionally on the condition that they don't have to dismantle terror organizations. I am tired of hearing how everything is Israel's fault and none of the Palestinians. History showed differently. How many countries has Arafat got booted out for involvements in civil wars? Many people who just blame Israel know no history at all.
It takes one to make war. It takes two to make peace.
Israel has offered 95% of the territory. Where was Arafat's counter offer?
Disclaimer: No, I am not a Jew, an Israeli, a zionist nor an American.
If a successful democracy blooms in Iraq, then toppling Iran and Syria will be no problem.
Why do you assume that it is our place to topple such regimes? Saddam was a bad, BAD guy. His sons were bad, BAD guys. No doubt Iraq and the world are better off without them.
It's very dangerous for us to go around trying to destablize countries just because we don't like how they do things internally. By doing that, we legitimize the actions of those who wish to do the same thing to us.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I have my liquid body armor all over my stomach and on the side of my hips for 8 years now and there were no problems yet.
You can make your own LBA: fat fast food and bear make it grow very quickly. I have not tested it on bullets or knives yet as I live in Europe but the LBA forms quite well over my N/A-muscles.
But beware of sport...
Gery
The answer is yes, me.
I've heard rants on Slashdot before, but you take the cake, man. People can disagree without becoming disagreeable. Not every person has to share the same view... the world is better for having multiple views. I can appreciate how you dislike football, football players and even football heroes.
But what I was saying and what you're saying don't match up as adversarial statements.
> You still don't get it. For all he did, he's still considered a football "hero".
I never said he was a football hero. I said he was a hero for giving up millions to join the fight against terrorism. Point out any other millionaire who has given his life to serve and I'll likely be looking at another hero. There are heroes of valour (guys that perform excellent military service like the character of Forest Gump), but Tillman is a hero of sacrifice, and that extends beyond military service, IMHO.
> But he is singled out for fanfare only because of the NFL connection, which disrespects the personal sacrifices made by all who have died in war.
I never said anything about NFL; just that he gave up significant monetary gains to serve. I wouldn't necessarily single him out for fanfare, either; I would remember that as an example of self-sacrifice.
Don't look at me as if I'm siding with the press. I don't like the press very much, and I've had direct contact with them before that was unpleasant, in that they tend to mess everything up and make a story, rather than report news.
> All I can do is distance myself from morons who cheer when a muscle-headed millionaire runs a ball past a line and does a self-aggrandizing dance.
This only shows your hatred for football, nothing significant there really because it's a subjective analysis only.
> Tillman knew that was a meaningless game, and it's sad that he couldn't distance himself far enough away from it; not in going overseas and not in death.
How could you possibly know this? Did you know the man? Do you know someone that knew him?
> I can't control that people think like you do, and the only way I can distance myself here is to make you a foe.
This is obviously your decision to make. Why bother posting about it? That's trollish.
> I encourage you to actually think about what makes a man a hero. Until you get your priorities straight, you're an unbearable person to be around.
Can it be so easily quantified, what makes a hero? I think not. It's like art; I know what art is when I see it, but I can't define art. How could anyone define art? How could anyone define what makes a hero? I know what some ingredients are, and I've seen many of them in the people I know.
You likely aren't a hero, because you have to become disagreeable when you disagree. Maybe if you could be agreeable, even in debate, you would find yourself exhibiting hero qualities. You obviously have the intellect for it... maybe not the patience?
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
that after the first shot hits, the liquid rains away through the hole.....
...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
The word you're looking for is Oobleck, and derives from the Dr. Seuss book: Bartholomew and the Oobleck.
Thank you. I was pretty sure I had it wrong. Now I know what to search for.
You know what pisses me off most? Not naive idiots like you, but that George Bush was a pussy. If we had treated Iraq like we did Germany or France at the end of WWII there would be *no* uprisings, car bombs, or anyother getting out of line. But no. Jr. had to go and do a 'humane' war. Dont bomb infrastructure.. dont bomb civies. Uncle.
But I thought we were there to "liberate" them. But then again, we were also there to eliminate a "clear and present danger" from "weapons of mass destruction." If the government is going to use patently false motives and act contrary to their declarations, then why aren't they going all the way?
Well, you'd better get used to it. Half-assed implementation of wildly unrealistic policy is the hallmark of the Bush administration.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Hey, Frank Herbert's Dune got it right.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?