Slashdot Mirror
British Town Worried About WWII Ammo Ship Wreck
Radical Rad writes "For 60 years, 1.4 kilotons of unstable world war II bombs have lain in the rusting wreck of a US cargo ship half-submerged on a sandbank in the river Thames. If it explodes it will be one of the biggest non-nuclear explosions ever with predictions of a 3 kilometre high wall of mud, water, and metal fragments causing devastation to the nearby town of Sheerness in Kent." The BBC has more.
Glad I still had time to change the vacation plans!
After all this time that something is going to happen? Would some of the explosives now be inert?
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Your Friend, O bin Laden.
Lets nuke it and sell the video on PPV.
i cant think of too many things designed these days that would survive 60+ years of being exposed to the elements, especially buried in a sand bank underwater... and then would still work close to specifications...
yep, they just dont build things the way they used to
Exploding things are cool. Every geek knows that.
Am I the only one who thinks it would too cool just to see that eplosion? Not that I would want to harm anyone or their property. 16ft high wave? That is just way to neat.
hmmm "The government has been advised that doing nothing isn't really a sensible option any more."
... with something having a continuous risk, no matter how small, the chance of it exploding approaches one over time... it seems like something should have been done immediately... certainly not 60 years later. The only excuse I can think of is the hope that the technology would improve enough to find a safer way to safeguard the town, but surely no one thought this would happen quick enough to be worth the risk... this sounds like a bunch of people not willing to take a risk and just waiting for the next person to take on the responsibility... pah.
She said the last examination, in 2003, showed the site to be no more dangerous than in the past.
Alright, according to the article the bombs could detonate at any point spontaneously, but the risk hasn't changed from the past,
WANNAWIKI Wannawiki WannaWiki WANNAWIKI!
There are history nerds, too.
Who allowed this to happen? I mean, okay, the ship sank there, but why wasn't it cleaned up along with the millions of tons of other war junk from WWII that was disposed of?
This is a perfect example of the insurance dictum that 'claims do not go away'. You need to settle them (ie, fix the problem).
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Well they have a clusterfuck of a problem and are looking for solutions. Sounds like nerd business to me.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Why did this get modded up? Obviously it involves modern technology because that's how this problem will (hopefully) be solved. This article easily could lead into some great posts about the various ways they might be able to learn whether these explosives are still a danger, and if they are, how they might be defused.
"How does this involve modern technology?"
uhm, how about that the problems of the past will require greater technology to resolve than it took to create them. (believe it was an einstein idea, not quoted verbatim, and dont care to look it up)
or more specifically, this bunch of bombs will require 2004 technology (or more) to safely remove items designed, built, and deployed between 1937 and 1941.
It's not a matter of saving money, it's a matter of safety. Would you want to go into a sunken vessel full of high explosives and start pulling stuff out?
According to the linked BBC piece, the wave caused by a potential explosion would not be 3km high, it would be 16ft high. The New Scientist makes mention of a 3000m column of debris: that is material would reach a maximum height of 3km. This is entirely different from a tsunami-like wave baselessly alluded to by the Slashdot blurb.
As a participent/observer, I can attest that (ignoring some misc. issues), it blow'ed up real good! ;-)
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
They partially unloaded the ship and stopped for a smoko.
:-)
"3173 ton of various explosives remain on and around the wreck to this day."
Typical Poms
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
Sorry but "London Bridge" has been moved to the suburbs of Phoenix Arizona.
neither do I, not that badly...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
>Obviously it involves modern technology because that's how this problem will (hopefully) be solved.
So, uhhh, why isn't the fact I'm watching TV covered on slashdot? That's modern technology.
They didn't even MENTION that anything would even be done, at all. The solution, at the moment, won't include ANY modern technology because the solution right now is "sit on your thumbs and close your eyes, you might be in for a big surprise!".
>This article easily could lead into some great posts about the various ways they might be able to learn whether these explosives are still a danger, and if they are, how they might be defused.
ROTFLMAO. Much more likely any responses to this article will lead to that town being exploded.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
How does this involve modern technology?
60 oo
That's modern enough
It's time to really test the robots for defusing bombs.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
Because it's "News for Nerds," not "News For Nerds Who Only Care About Things That Run On Silicon." It's the obsessives who think that computers are the be-all and end-all of everything that matters who give nerds in general a bad name, IMNSGDHO.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
In 1917 250 tons of explosive gun powder, benzol, and gun cotton loaded on the French ship Mont-Blanc exploded and devastated the town of Halifax, Nova Scotia. The ship was carrying supplies to help the war effort over seas. A fire resulting from a collision with a Norwegian ship as the Mont-Blanc was leaving the harbor to join up with a convoy was triggered the blast 28 minutes after the minor collision.
The death toll rose to about 1,600 in a city with a population near 50,000. An explosion 5 times as powerful in a town 5 times smaller could conceivably wipe it off the face of the earth. 12,000 homes were damaged or destroyed not only by the blast, but also the fires that followed.
Wikipedia has some more information on the Halifax explosion.
From the article, they worried about more on building/windows getting damaged, not injury. Could they take some time and figure out how to control an explosion to help get rid of the danger?
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Did anybody else think of that episode of Gilligan's Island where Gilligan accidentally brings in a WWII mine while fishing, or was that just my own television warped mind?
How does this involve modern technology?
Damn hypertext syntax
That is
60 much much less than infinity
That's modern enough
It's time to really test the robots for defusing bombs.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
If it's a U.S. cargo ship, are we responsible for cleaning up our mess?
Alternate solution #1 - make the guy who sunk it clean it up.
Alternate solution #2 -Make the guy who started the war clean it up.
There are UXO's from WWI and WWII all over Europe. From all sides. The get cleaned up as they are found, by whomever finds them. Hopefully cleaned up under control.
#text#
In 1970, government tests on the site showed a
blast would hurl a 1,000ft wide column of water,
mud, metal and munitions almost 10,000ft into
the air.
The shock of the blast would shatter almost
every window in Sheerness and damage buildings.
The explosion would also generate a 16ft high
wave that could sink a small craft.
#/text#
where did poster get the "with predictions of a 3 kilometre high wall of mud"????
"So. Let's see. It'll require super modern technology like "SCUBA" gear and big "Cranes", maybe even "Vehicles". Wow. I'm so excited I think I wet my pants."
nice reply, but
'SCUBA' wont be used for much of anything
go ahead and use 'Cranes' to lift 1.4 kilotons worth of TNT buried in a rusted out cargo ship in a sandbank underwater in a large river.
What kind of 'Vehicles' are you thinking of? 'Vehicles' is a pretty wide ranging group. Do you plan to use boats, or airplanes, or segways, or what?
As far as you being excited and wetting your pants, I will agree with you there. That is certainly not news for nerds. or stuff that matters.
Be a little more specific as far as to why you dont think this wont take a little engineering or some other nerdly skills.
Gives a whole new meaning to "Somebody set us up the bomb!"
Divers with SCUBA equipment will certainly be involved, but as far as getting the ordinance from being in a dangerous location into a less dangerous equation, SCUBA is not the interesting part. Certainly not with all else that would be involved.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/goweezer/canada/blowup
By coincidence, I had just read the New Scientist's article about this, which is the source of the BBC article, but in much more depth and with many more details,
I suspect that the reason those articles do not cite a plan of action for defusing these explosives stems from the British governments indecision over whether they would rather protect millions upon millions in property or see a really really cool explosion.
Because the explosive power is defined by the power of TNT. An 8kt nuke does not weigh 8kt, but only a few thousand pounds.
Since HE is more potent than TNT, it's rated potential is higher than its weight.
Why not if you are using a robot? The technology is surely there.
Shameless lifted from Some random page about the Port of Chicago explosion.
On the evening of 17 July 1944, the empty merchant ship SS Quinault Victory was prepared for loading on her maiden voyage. The SS E.A. Bryan, another merchant ship, had just returned from her first voyage and was loading across the platform from Quinault Victory. The holds were packed with high explosive and incendiary bombs, depth charges, and ammunition - 4,606 tons of ammunition in all. There were sixteen rail cars on the pier with another 429 tons. Working in the area were 320 cargo handlers, crewmen and sailors.
At 10:18 p.m., a hollow ring and the sound of splintering wood erupted from the pier, followed by an explosion that ripped apart the night sky. Witnesses said that a brilliant white flash shot into the air, accompanied by a loud, sharp report. A column of smoke billowed from the pier, and fire glowed orange and yellow. Flashing like fireworks, smaller explosions went off in the cloud as it rose. Within six seconds, a deeper explosion erupted as the contents of the E.A. Bryan detonated in one massive explosion. The seismic shock wave was felt as far away as Boulder City, Nevada. The E.A. Bryan and the structures around the pier were completely disintegrated. A pillar of fire and smoke stretched over two miles into the sky above Port Chicago. The largest remaining pieces of the 7,200-ton ship were the size of a suitcase. A plane flying at 9,000 feet reported seeing chunks of white hot metal "as big as a house" flying past. The shattered Quinault Victory was spun into the air. Witnesses reported seeing a 200-foot column on which rode the bow of the ship, its mast still attached. Its remains crashed back into the bay 500 feet away.
All 320 men on duty that night were killed instantly. The blast smashed buildings and rail cars near the pier and damaged every building in Port Chicago. People on the base and in town were sent flying or were sprayed with splinters of glass and other debris. The air filled with the sharp cracks and dull thuds of smouldering metal and unexploded shells as they showered back to earth as far as two miles away. The blast caused damage 48 miles across the Bay in San Francisco.
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
Are you seriously telling me you've never seen cool (as in nerdy) stuff on the History Channel? Wild West Tech, Modern Marvels, the history of prostitution (seriously, it was an academic perspective on the subject, and was rather interesting)... the list goes on. You just need to broaden your horizons a bit... wouldn't you rather learn a bit about everything than know everything about just one thing?
Too bad it's on the Thames. British people just don't have the same deep appreciation for blowing stuff up that Americans do. I suppose that's one of the reasons we revolted though...
I recommend freezing the ship, and then moving it.
Considering it was the Brits that directed it to the sand bar, I wouldn't get too uppity with the knee jerk anti-American crap. Oh wait, this is Slashdot. Carry on. Don't bother to RTFA.
Well, if you read the linked Wikipedia article, you see that when the ship arrived at the Thames estuary, it came under control of local authorities...
When she arrived of Southend she came under the authority of the Thames naval control at HMS Leigh, located at the end of the Southend pier. It was the then harbour master, responsible for all shipping movements in the estuary who ordered Montgomery to a berth off the north edge of Sheerness middle sands, where she ran aground in a depth of 24 ft. of water at low tide.
and that a local company was given the job to remove the cargo or "clean up our mess," but were unable to do so.
or for the american geeks, it is almost as cool as shooting things, or people (esp those middle eastern people)...or for southern americans, the heathens too.
The payload is 1.4 kilotons. That's 1400 tons. The CH-54 Sky Crane has a payload capacity of 10 tons. The CH-53E Super Stallion can haul about 16 tons. You'd need more like 200 helicopters to pick up the boat's payload, and more if you want to sling the boat itself around.
The payload is heavy. It was probably sent by boat for a reason.
I modded it Informative because of the first parts of the first paragraph. Yeah, the second paragraph is a bunch of assumptions. So what?
In other news, some people need to stop being so pediantic. Insightful, informative... same difference.
We give the UN so f***ing much money it's not even funny. It exists because US taxpayers foot the bill. I don't think we would turn around and ask them for money for something else...
Perhaps he supposes that the large shockwave will knock the bridge down from the other side of the earth? Sort of like those suspended shiny balls that people put on their desk, that go ckick klack ckick klack ckick klack, you know. Those things? But like HUGE. The explosion will toss the London Bridge 10 feet into the air, and it will come down in rubble!
Hey, I think that if a butterfly can make a hurricane that it just might work!
Didn't an oldschool French ammunition ship explode on some coast in Canada quite a while ago, creating the largest non-nuclear explosion?
The name escapes me, was it in Newfoundland?
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Go here. For more specifics about the offshore explosion hazard click here.
(Note: site doesn't appear to work well in Firefox)
Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
Grandparents set up us the bomb!
You know what you doing!
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
What to do if over a kiloton of unstable explosives reside near your town:
Move.
You're welcome!
After the first world war, lots of the gas produced simply was dumped into the atlantic and still comes up as poisnous foam from time to time. Some of the islands in the Bikini area still are not inhabitable. I am sure there are numours other relics of World War 1 and 2 lying around on the planet, most people dont know of.
"Someone set us up the bomb!"
Do you really want Hitler playing around with 1.4 tonnes of explosives smack in the middle of england?
"So, uhhh, why isn't the fact I'm watching TV covered on slashdot? That's modern technology."
Interlacing? Modern? Everyone who enjoys graphics hates interlacing. Get a clue.
Imagine a beowolf cluster of these ships....
bash$
However, in France, the incidence of UXO is sufficiently high that local farmers plow up "items" on a regular basis. If they are small enough to be moved by an individual, they are taken out by hand and put in drop boxes by the road for ordnance techs to deal with. That's how common they are- farmers turned ordnance technicians.
While working on a test program with some British ordnance people, a story was related to me regarding buried UXO from WWII. Pipes were filled with nitroglycerin (NG), and buried perpendicular to landing strips in the UK. The idea was that they could be detonated in the event of invasion, rendering the landing strips useless. They were forgotten after WWII, and during construction some decades later, were re-discovered when a pipe containing NG was struck with a backhoe; I believe it killed the operator.
Making things worse during the remediation effort was that apartments had been built over part of the old runway. The Brits paid to bus the residents to the beach each day, and then bring them back in the afternoon after work for the day had halted. Evidently, they became quite cross when the work was finished a day early and everyone lined up for the buses, and the buses didn't come that day.
Anyway- the only thing worse than UXO is unexploded, toxic ordnance. Chemical warfare just hasn't been the same since the Chinese invented burning pepper upwind of the enemy, I'll tell ya.
I'd like to see a Beowulf cluster of those!!
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
where do I sign up?
Approaching insane levels of bad taste, a new condo development which overlooks the area is called "Mont Blanc":
http://www.livingatmontblanc.com/
I don't suppose Hiroshima is planning an Enola Gay Heights set of condos to match?
Disarm it remotely with Robots ...
.
.
.
.
Setup Transponder near surface of wreck, setup relay station 20km
away, and evacuate the closest town for a short time
Use directional low power transmitters for long shots, and
low power omni directional transmitter near site
The remote control subs could use air bags to float bombs to surface
slowly changing their bouancy and rising up like air bags
Also as a precaution they could rig concentric rings of air bladder
bags to absorb some of the outward explosion , if they completely
surrounded it with 100 ten foot thick air bag sets it could
lessen the surface level explosion, alot would still go straight up.
Also mines are designed to exist in water, those bombs were not,
and it is VERY possible alot of them are now duds
Peace !
Ex-MislTech
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Who fucking cares?
If you don't want to get asploded, don't live in England or wherever the fuck it is British people come from. Simple as that. Don't come bitching to us when a wall of mud and metal and I suppose various sea creatures and junk crashes down on your stupid little town. You chose to live there, deal with it.
Why are the English always asking us to solve their problems? One is reminded of when the Great Plague hit England in 1576. If I recall, and I always do, it was none other than the United States who sent over Mr. T and the T-Force to wipe the plague out and make England safe for future American visitors. A few years later it's "Oh no! The Canadians are dropping bombs on our cities or something!" and we're over there again saving their asses. What do we get in return? A snarky attitude about the large amount of explosives we happen to have left behind when we were done kicking Canadian ass.
I can see that place from out my window, and that's the first I've heard of this.
Typical.
Yes I do. And people who do this kind of work make excellent money.
If you bothered to read the entire first sentence of his post, you might notice that he wasn't tieing the 4,800 tons of ANFO with the Oklahoma City bombing, but with the "Minor Scale Event" (link stolen from the post you're berating I thought I'd let you know, since you obviously never got that far reading it). The Oklahoma City reference was just to give the non-explosives experts an idea of what else ANFO explosives have been used for. Not really necessary, especially since it completely confuses people like you who apparently can't understand anything more complex than a Dr. Seuss book.
You are as ignorant as you are worthless. Put that in your pipe and smoke it as you die alone.
http://www.lutins.org/nukes.html
scroll down to lost nukes... many in the USA
{ Pillar candles great for when the power fails and you cant see the keyboard..
Not anymore. He's a little bit dead.
Tell them that the ship is a haven for file-swappers.
A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
Sorry but "London Bridge" has been moved to the suburbs of Phoenix Arizona.
Mostly true, except that Lake Havasu City is about a half day drive from Phoenix.
http://www.havasuchamber.com/lbridge.htm
I know this revelation may be too much to understand for someone such as yourself who has a brain the size of a tennis ball, but George Bush is not responsible for the fact that you are equally worthless and ignorant. That fact is entirely of your own doing. Put that in your pipe and smoke it as you die alone, hippie.
I hate to be morbid, but that really sounds kinda cool, if it weren't for the people dying and homes getting ruined. It would be perfect special effects for an armageddon movie!
But WAIT!!!!you're telling me that a large abandoned ship full of explosives existed exposed to the outside world for sixty some years and it WASN'T looted by hordes of pyro teenagers? There must be something fundamentally wrong with the teenagers across that ocean. Methinks not enough good ol american made rednek would fix it right up.
GITTERDUN!!!!!!!!
-- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
But the list of broken arrows is a pretty long one. The way I understand it, there's no one organization that keeps track of all incidents and lost devices. On the bright side, they may have found the lost Mk-39 near Savannah, GA.
"Exploding things are cool. Every geek knows that."
So that's why you put a carton of eggs in the microwave.
An ordinance is a law. Ordnance refers to ammunition.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
It seems to me it would be good thing to develop a nano or microbial solution (don't they have mushrooms that eat High Explosives or was that diesel?).
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
In the US in 197x (no, I don't remember exactly) a munitions train loaded with bombs destined for Vietnam exploded in the railyard (in Roseville, CA). Bombs went off for hours, devastating the surrounding areas. I was a young kid in the area at the time. All I remember was, "Mommy, is that thunder?" Followed by "Get in the house!"
:).
Anyway. That's not the best part. A few years ago they were doing some construction in the area when a backhoe hit something... something metal.
Oops.
Well, they called out the bomb squad, who said 'fsck it!' and called the military, who decided to blow the thing in place. Many windows in the area gave their lives.
After that they used ground penetrating radar in the area and declared the area "cleared".
End of story? Nope.
A week later "tink"... a backhoe hit something... something metal. It seems that, and this is just priceless, when they did the ground penetrating radar passes, they only went for POSITIVE matches, i.e.: it had to look like a bomb on radar. Well, come on, the area is littered with shrapnel and train debris even 30 years later.
After much flogging, they did more radar and found not 1... not 2... but EIGHT 250-lbs bombs in the immediate area.
Anyway, I hear houses in the area can be had cheap
Actually it might be a blessing if it did happen.
If you want to know more about the dubious joys of living on the isle of Sheppey (on which Sheerness is located) then you can find out at the most excellent Isle of Sheppey tourists guide.
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
Wow the troll hunters are out tonight. I think they are getting a few falose positives. I thought this warranted a +1 insightful (maybe to finish off around +3, but -1 troll? A little harsh. Not to mention, I knew it would get some witty replies, and it did. It was a fine post, pointing out the difference between the usual high tech/political stuff the site usually concentrates on vursus this, more of a historic event with modern day repercussions thing. Of couse, it is interesting to us nerds, at least for the discussion on how to best deal with it, But labelling it a troll is a little harsh.
Was Oppenheimer a nerd?
That's right, frickin' sharks with frickin' "lasers" on their heads.
Who could build the tension like Giraldo Rivera... and what a perfect conclusion for his career.
D. Hicks: "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
The US Air Force (brilliant buggers that they are) managed to drop a nuclear bomb into one of the swamps nearby (Savannah, GA, USA) back in the 1950's. I'm sure that even back in the 50's the detonators were made safe enough that it won't explode randomnly. Still, I'd rather they dug that damned thing up and removed it.
Only on
While building on an old piece of Poole (Dorset, England) harbour they found a load of phosphorour barrels from WWII. Not sure if they were for grenades or flares, but storing Phosphorous next to the shore? Great idea!
Typical civil servants - know about a problem, know that it will get worse with time, just sit on their hands and hope that they retire or move to a different department before they need to make a decision.
Yet when it comes to enforcing trivial health & safety laws they are keep to act against all businesses that don't do everything.
Nice to see the mods getting it right: the suggestion that anyone would go to Sheerness for their holiday definitely deserves +5 Funny.
IMNSGDHO.
Gesundheit.
you could ask any question involving the US and 'responsible' and the answer will always be the same:
NOOOOOOOO
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
> ... which we don't have to deal with here in the US
... it's easier to make the stuff if you don't have to deal with the consequences on your own soil.
Perhaps that's part of why the US _isn't_ one of the 152 countries that have signed the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty (effectively a landmine ban)
I have to say that, other than the seabird population, an enormous bomb explosion nearby could do nothing but good. The Thames islands are mostly mudflats (and at least one of them may cease to exist before long during to rising sea levels and strengthening tides) and, without human intervention, would be pretty transient.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
The correct quote is "Somebody set up us the bomb."
Okay, I realise that Great Britain isn't a big island, but even so it's pushing it to claim that the coast is "smack in the middle of England".
Let's go target practicing! Make big boom! BIG BOOM!!
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
Savannah Warhead
Perhaps that's part of why the US _isn't_ one of the 152 countries that have signed the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty...
No. The reason is that the US uses landmines to defend the border between North Korea and South Korea. Its easy for those 152 countries to claim that landmines are unecessary when they don't have 30,000 men and women standing in the way of 1,000,000 mental communists.
Too bad they are not in Irak...
They would have made nice weapons of mass destruction, well hidden !
They could have been a great oppotunity for Bush & Blair.
Maybe the 30,000 men should move? :)
now go play in traffic please............
In Soviet Army huge amounts of TNT were used to emulate nuclear explosion. Eyewitness of one such explosion told me that they exploded entire cargo train of TNT. It was cheaper and less dangerous than atomic bomb, but very realistic.
'nuff said
Before the Trinity test during the Manhattan project, a test was done with en explosion of 108 tons of Composition B (RDX/TNT). Among the explosives were tubes containing fission products. Looks like the biggest "dirty" bomb ever made.
Of course the fireball would not be as hot as a nuclear one, but the pictures look very impressive nontheless.
Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
All topics eventually degenerate into anti-Bush commentary.
How can the eyes be the Windows of the soul when they never blue screen?
That's not a time bomb.
This is a time bomb!!!
Montgomery:
The explosion would also generate a 16ft high wave that could sink a small craft.
La Palma:
Scientists predict that it will generate a wave that will be almost inconceivably destructive, far bigger than anything ever witnessed in modern times. It will surge across the entire Atlantic in a matter of hours, engulfing the whole US east coast, sweeping away everything in its path up to 20km inland. Boston would be hit first, followed by New York, then all the way down the coast to Miami and the Caribbean.
As far as defusing bombs goes, you can't beat MacGyver. In fact, he's been so bored of late that he's resorted to building bombs on aeroplanes (See: http://bbspot.com/News/2004/06/macgyver.html.) So I think he'd jump at the opportunity to defuse a few...
There are still severalcitier in Germany that have to be evacuated entirely or in parts every few months because soem construction worker found some 250kg or 500kg bomb again. That's just part of life and a small note int tha traffic radio.
now having a 1400t bomb in the middle of Berlin, that would be something. But actually we had that around 60 years ago in several German towns, sort of, so no big news either.
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
This story used to surface regularly in the Sunday papers in the silly season but eventually , even they wouldn't use it. Must have been a quiet day at the beeb. As I understand it, the bombs are far too unstable to move so there is nothing to be done.
well, one of 'em, yeah. but the did build another one to replace the one they sold, y'know.
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
Ah yes, the old Kyoto Syndrome. "Sure, landmines are bad and all, but these folks are kinda pissing us off, and it'd be real handy if we could landmine their country to hell."
the bombs that are live now didnt explode when the boat sank, and they have not exploded in the 50 years since then, so why are they so worried _now_ that it is dangerous? or is Slashdot just now getting arround to posting this article and its actualy dated 1946?
Maybe a large population of South Korea likes having those 30,000 soldiers standing next to their own >100,000 (not sure how many) behind those thousands of mines.
From what I've been told is that minefields are very effective in this type of situation. It forces the enemy to blow gaps in the minefiels, which turn into funnels that we can the direct the majority of our fire into.
Hell, kennedy should be put in the friggin Betty Ford Clinic for the rest of his life.
My gran lives on Marine Parade, which is the street facing out on the estuary that this ship sunk in. From the front, upstairs bedrooms you can see the masts poking out of the water.
As people have pointed out already, the wholesale destruction of Sheerness will actually improve the town and surrounding areas. This formely pretty town has suffered the same fate as numerous other small english seaside towns - it is now a decayed, putrescent mockery of its former self. It is a foul hive of imported scum from London, as well as successive new generations of home-grown scum.
If you're the sardonic type who derives pleasure from watching from afar the worst that the human race can offer, the Isle of Sheppey is your kind of place. Take care though, as many visitors to Sheppey make the mistake of looking or acting different, and end their sojourn in hospital, having broken glass picked out of the faces.
To sum up - explosives good, Sheppey bad.
The last image on this page http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/Tour_01/Medplus2 .html e ry.html
shows what can be seen above water in context, including the proximity to the shipping channel.
A closer image can be found here http://www.gnometech.freeserve.co.uk/html/montgom
The top image says 'present' but lines etc. are still in place so I think it was taken some time ago http://www.ronangel.demon.co.uk/
A map showing the location http://www.submerged.co.uk/monty%205%20big.jpg
How the wreck lies http://www.submerged.co.uk/monty%204%20big.jpg
Sorry, I was nodding away. Did someone say something to me?
I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
Only drawback I can think of is the inevitable construction vibrations may be enough to set the bombs off. That and getting rid of the caisson after the bombs were set off.
The idea's based on the old railroad dynamite cars. They were made with heavily reinforced floors and walls but the ceilings had just enough tin to keep the rain out. If the load blew, the blast took the path of least resistance and blew the tin roof sky high leaving the rest of the car intact.
I would believe a 3 metre high wall of mud. A 3 kilometre wall would take out London and most of Paris...
3 metres being 3000 mm!
realkiwi
Ok America, this ones your problem so get your asses over here and pick it up.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
(Sorry to post as AC - I didn't register yet.)
Cluster bombs based on a spring-loaded collection of small bomblets were used for delivering both HE and incendiary charges in WW2.
I live in a dutch town (Nijmegen) that was destroyed by US bombers, partially using cluster-bombs, in August 1944. Over 800 Dutch were killed and zero Germans. The attack was an accident when several aircraft could not find their primary target in the industrialised area of Germany. The resulting fires attracted other 'geographically-embarassed' aircraft....
I'm certainly glad I don't live in Sheerness though !
Geez... good thing we posted that for all to see...
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. ~~ Hunter S. Thompson
Yes it is treu. How did you finds outs?1!
Althought the BBC article just stipulates 'TNT' as the explosive compound, if the bombs were for use by British forces, the chances are they would be Amatol.
Amatol is an increased yield mixture of TNT and ammonium nitrate which can range from an 80/20 to a 50/50 mix.
In its manufactured for it is supposedly relatively stable but severe impact can be a trigger.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
From my following of the coronial inquiry into the blast:
The contractor found that the structural columns were not as described on the blueprints, but in fact contained a lot more steel. The cuting charges required for this type of steel were not available in the country and would need to be specially imported (you can't just stick HE on a ship or airplane). Since the contractor was working to a contract that included fairly strong late penalties, he improvised something that was quite a bit faster than the proper cutting charges. Unfortunately the sandbags that were placed around the charges did not prevent large chunks of shrapnel from being launched. A young girl (12 or so) was struck by a piece and killed.
I went to watch the blast, but from a much longer distance than most other folk (and I made sure there was a large hill between me and the base of the hospital). I was surprised at how close people were, and I was also surprised that more people were not injured.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Explosive public spectacles seem to have a mixed track record. Here's an oldie but goodie from Oregon in 1970. http://home.comcast.net/~jlhacks/whale/
In WWI a ship full of munitions blew up in Halifax harbour. To get an idea of what kind of damage might occur, have a look at: http://www.cbc.ca/halifaxexplosion/
Here's a blast of similar size and configuration, used to blast a treacherous underwater structure and make a river more navigable. Sorry, but no killer tsunami ensued... Read about it at
t m
http://www.vancouverislandabound.com/tamingof.h
Excerpt:
"With 1,375 tons of explosives packed into the peaks, April 5, 1958 was the date set for detonation . On that day, at 9:31 a.m., Dr. Victor Dolmage, consulting engineer for the Ministry of Public Works, pushed the plunger that set off the largest non-nuclear explosion ever. The blast pulverized 370,000 tons of rock and displaced 320,000 tons of water. Rock and debris rocketed 1,000 feet into the air. The explosion also created a 25-foot tidal wave which quickly dissipated and caused no damage."
The blurb says "with predictions of a 3 kilometre high wall of mud, water, and metal fragments causing devastation to the nearby town of Sheerness in Kent."
What the article says is:
"...including predictions of a three kilometre high column of water, mud, metal and munitions sent into the air by the blast."
There is a BIG difference between a 3 kilometre high WALL and a COLUMN.
I feel like I am reading a Jason Blair article.
I guess everyone here in the US has forgotten about the 2 "lost" nuclear bombs that are "somewhere" lost in the mud in a marsh off the coast of savanna georgia!?!?!?!?!i n615978.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/06/tech/ma
It's better to be hated for who you are, than be loved for who you're not.
Another issue that may be causing problems is that according to what I've read it is a US Ship.
I'm not all lawyery, but my wife is doing Maritime Studies as part of her Ph.D. program and if this is considered to be a military ship it belong to the US government - probably the Navy.
If that's correct it would likely add another of good ol' bureaucratic goodness. If you think the US or UK government is bad enough for that, I can't imagine how the two together would be.
I don't have a TNT equivalent, but MONT BLANC was actually carrying 35 tons of benzol, 300 rounds of ammunition, 10 tons of gun cotton, 2,300 tons of picric acid (used in explosives), and 200 tons of TNT.
TNT 226,797 kg
Wet picric acid 1,602,519 kg
Dry picric acid 544,311 kg
Guncotton[?] 56,301 kg
Benzol 223,188 kg
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
The dump in the North Sea, is on a place in front of Heist (small town in Belgium). Information about it can be found in This link.
Mike
The parent has the amount of explosives wrong. ~2000 tons of TNT and another ~2000 tons of other explosives.
I think the figures are confused by the authors of the stories. The column of mud/water/metal would be 1,000ft (0.3km) high and 10,000ft (3km) wide according to one story, and vice-versa in another. Which set of figures do you think is true?
Kriston
a 16ft wave will wreck london.....
I'd like to see what a 3km-high wave would wreck, all the same.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
So these bombs have been sitting there unstable for 60 years? I haven't seen something remain "unstable" that long since Debian Woody!
All this talk of what was the world biggest explosion, I can tell you for truth that the worlds biggest explosion is the explosions in my pants, baby.
Meanwhile, the 1,000,000 "mental" communists (WTF?) are thinking that the minefield is standing in way of them and 30,000 mental capitalists.
Ironic, isn't it? The more successful the U.S. is at making some other country its protectorate (Canada, continental Europe, New Zealand) the quicker that country turns to tearing down the same military strength it depends upon.
The Baker Shot which was 20 kilotons only produced a "wall" of water about 60 meters high at ground zero.
This is a really stupid, and over exaggerated article.
Will you shut the fuck up!!
A cluster bomb is a bomb containing smaller ones inside, INCENDIARY BOMBS were the 1940's version of a modern cluster bomb. Do you understand Fucktard!! Now shut the fuck up!!
The Texas City explosion of 1947 (see also here --- 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate.
Also the Halifax explosion of 1917 (see also here) -- 2300 tons of explosive picric acid, 2115 tons of TNT, and other assorted nasties. A fireball that rose a mile high, windows shattered 100 km away, 1635 killed, 9000+ injured, 325 acres destroyed.
...possibly not a valid comparison. New things keep being set on fire, and the map redrawing hasn't yet happened... (bad stuff will eventually happen re: Kurdistan or the lack thereof). Come to thing of it, they're having problems killing the remaining "bad guys" too - plus new ones keep popping up.
I guess it will continue to be a question of "occupy indefinately", or "abandon to civil war + new Islamic state(s)".
But I'm probably being optimistic!
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
TNT 226,797 kg
... 544 Tons
e .p hp?p9
t ml
Wet picric acid 1,602,519 kg
Dry picric acid 544,311 kg
Guncotton[?] 56,301 kg
Benzol 223,188 kg
Since 1000 KG is about 1 ton
TNT 226 Tons
Wet Picric Acid 1602 Tons
Dry
Guncotton (nitrate of cellulose) 56 Tons
Benzol 223 Tons
Or 2651 Tons of explosives, very approx.
Of course TNT is not as powerful then the others listed but it was one hell of a blast. They did a survey of the harbour that proved that the long standing story that a crater existed in the harbour was not true.
http://gsca.nrcan.gc.ca/pubprod/of3154/showimg_
Other Links
http://museum.gov.ns.ca/mma/AtoZ/halexpl.h
Bet it won't be as big as Krakatoa. Biggest man-made non-nuke explosion, that's another matter.
Good God, I actually understood what that acronym meant! What's happening to me?
Marvin knew: "Think of a number, any number..."
The category in question, of course, is "largest state in land area, counting only states that actually have at least one real city (towns under 300k residents need not apply)".
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Halfiax Explosion Municipal Information Site. CBC Halifax Explosion Info Site.
....
From the first article:
"Around eight that morning, the Belgian relief ship Imo left its mooring in Bedford Basin and headed for open sea. At about the same time, the French ship Mont Blanc was heading up the harbour to moor, awaiting a convoy to accompany her across the Atlantic. A convoy was essential; this small, barely seaworthy vessel was carrying a full cargo of explosives. Stored in the holds, or simply stacked on deck, were 35 tons of benzol, 300 rounds of ammunition, 10 tons of gun cotton, 2,300 tons of picric acid (used in explosives), and 400,000 pounds of TNT."
"The Mont Blanc drifted by a Halifax pier, brushing it and setting it ablaze. Members of the Halifax Fire Department responded quickly, and were positioning their engine up to the nearest hydrant when the Mont Blanc disintegrated in a blinding white flash, creating the biggest man-made explosion before the nuclear age. It was 9:05am.
Over 1,900 people were killed immediately; within a year the figure had climbed well over 2,000. Around 9,000 more were injured, many permanently; 325 acres, almost all of north-end Halifax, were destroyed.
Much of what was not immediately levelled burned to the ground, aided by winter stockpiles of coal in cellars. As for the Mont Blanc, all 3,000 tons of her were shattered into little pieces that were blasted far and wide. The barrel of one of her cannons landed three and a half miles away; part of her anchor shank, weighing over half a ton, flew two miles in the opposite direction. Windows shattered 50 miles away, and the shock wave was even felt in Sydney, Cape Breton, 270 miles to the north-east."
Whose country? The landmines are in South Korea, with the permission of the South Korean government. I would have thought that was obvious. How could the US put landmines in North Korea?
The bomb casings should be just a bit rusty and weak to say the least.
They should have evacuated the town on 12/31/99 and touched it off at midnight!
The problem about land-mines and static defenses is that if you know where they put them or have infinite amount of time to figure it out, they aren't that hard to extract or detonate when the time comes to pass over said defenses.
Weather this is done by engineers/sappers, artillery fire, or pointing a machine gun into the backs of prisoners and telling them to run en masse over certain areas, or vehicles with the appropriate mechanism to detonate mines safely (ie chains and extremely thick tractor treads).
And eventually when you have cleared a safe path then the rest are pointless (except for people not smart enough to walk through or mark safe travel zones etc).
Mines are usually best in active war zones where there is a fluid front line or in the cases of say... Vietnam or Soviet Afghanistan War... No front line at all... Where you have no clue where the mines and defenses will be.
"Alternate solution #1"
...
...
Probably Dead by now
"Alternate solution #2"
Also dead
"If it's a U.S. cargo ship, are we responsible for cleaning up our mess? "
No , historicaly speaking Canada always clean the US of A mess.
News has just reached the Slashdot studios that Sheerness has officially declared to be part of Iraq. In an interview, President Bush announced:
"Thank gawd! There's y'er nuclear weapons, y'all".
...will think it an improvement.
How big was that again?
http://www.ronangel.demon.co.uk/
The last link is quite interesting.
if you cut alaska in half texas would be the third largest state.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
that this ship isn't in a French port. Then there wouldn't be a problem at all.
Of course in order to dig it up you have to know WHERE it is (it's in the swamp somewhere isn't very useful...)
This news is an example of: "Should be this information top-secret?"
Ehhh, I was with you til you decided to use that silly rhetoric. Blame Kim Jong Il, that guy's nuts, but don't blame each and every North Korean. That just doesn't make sense.
It wouldn't be that difficult to find it if they wanted to. They know where it dropped. All they need is for a P3 Orion to make a few passes with the Magnetic Anomoly Detecter and a team of marines on the ground to follow up on any detections until they find the thing.
Only on
Trust me, the world would be a nicer place without the Isle of Sheppy! It's aweful! It doesn't have beachs or sea it has mud! Aethiests could work on the water there! It's a nasty horrible, unpleasant place, with no charming features at all, a website called http://www.sheppyscum.com summed it up brialliantly! (pity thse site is gone now) And sadly my father is from their and my gransparents and family are STILL there .. which means I have to visit! I even ran away to New Zealand to get as far away as possible!
Now I feel unclean after thinking about Sheppy and Sheerness-on-Sea(mud), need to go get drunk now to forget it. ;-)
If you stand on what is supposed to be the beach at Sheerness, you can see the ship at low tide anyway .. the radio mast sticks up about 12 feet above water.
Many a time I've stood on the beach and thrown rocks at it, hopeing by some fluke of luck I could throw a stone the mile distance and cause it to blow ... then Sheerness would be toast! MUHAHAHHAAHAA!!
I HATE Sheppy!
If You ever visit halifax, and see a building with a date prior to 1917, odds are it was a mouge after the explosion. The same likely applies in the aftermath of the Titanic.
Many of these buildings are now excelent pubs and resturaunts.
Halifax doesnt have small disasters. they save up for big ones.
Build the parabolic blast shield in sections and float or drag them into place to minimize vibrations.
When it is in place, gently drop the world's biggest blanket(s) on it from remote controlled cranes or airships. The blanket can be fabricated from cheap light weight biodegradable material, probably recycled in some way, or agricultural fiber waste. When in place, hose down the blanket.
Warn small craft, and as another writer suggested, board up windows.
Ignite a primer bomb.
The game of Go (Igo, Weiqi, Baduk) has the simplest concept and the deepest play.
Searching Google Images, I found this photo of the wreck:
e ry.html
http://www.gnometech.freeserve.co.uk/html/montgom
Not the greatest in quality (taken in 1990), but still, it's nice to see. The BBC article should have included a photo of it. Grrr!
so all we need is, oh say a round thousand, of Arizona State Mine Inspectors. Train them as divers, and problem solved!
Paul Chapman, Peter Stevens, Derek Wills, Graham Brookes.
IEEE Computer Society Press, 1998. ISBN: 0-8186-9176-X Abstract | PDF "Visualizing underwater environments using multi-frequency sonar". (Invited Paper)
Paul Chapman, Derek Wills, Peter Stevens, Graham Brookes.
IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications, September/October 1999 (Vol. 19, No. 5). Abstract | PDF Excerpts of visualizations:
- Shipwreck Visualization (IEEE Visualization 1998)
- Wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery
I'm blown away the3rd Prize BP & SUT International Underwater Image Competition 2001
[about | ext link | high-res graphic]
there are an awful lot of fucking clueless idiots here!
I mean - how much force would it take to raise a 3km wave? Do you think even a 100 ships packed with high explosives would do that?
Err... nope!
The get cleaned up as they are found, by whomever finds them.
Nice euphemism there for being blown to smithereens while plowing your fields, or whatever...
Would you be as cool about it if there were UXOs in your backyard?
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
It forces the enemy to blow the shit out of the area with artillery. That's going to mean the 30,000 guys will be blown up, then be run over by "1,000,000 mental communists" (though some would argue the americans are more mental than any communist...)
Fact: Yes the bomb is there
Fact: Yes the government is going to pull it up.
Opinion: They are retrieving for national security.
Reality: They are recovering it to
a) help their image
b) protect the environment (it is radioactive ya know)
c) To protect the innocent.
This thing is buried in mud as it is and is gonna take a lot of work to recover it. It is currently located off of Georgia by about 120 feet? in approximatly 15' of water.
I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.