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Robbers Scared by GTA
HellSpam writes "Some robbers tried to burglarize a poor old lady and her 3 grandsons. Her grandsons happened to be playing Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas, and the sounds of the police from the game scared them away! From the article: "The police in the game were saying, 'Stop, we have you surrounded. This is the police.' The burglar, unknowingly, thought this was the actual police and panicked ... being apprehended by PlayStation." Now, no more saying games are bad for you..."
the grandsons beat the shit out of the poor burglar..
A man ran in, pointed a gun at me, saw that I was playing Daikatana and ran off screaming.
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
I wish the 3 kids then all picked up baseball bats and laid into the thief
before taking off with his car and finding hookers.
What is the point of the word "burglarize"? "Burgle" means exactly the same thing.
This sounds abit too much like something from the film "Home Alone" doesn't it?
Crime doesn't P(l)ay(station)!
Thanks, I'm here all week.
apterous.org
This was back in March according to the article so GTA:SA wasnt out yet! (must have been a previous one) The story is in the news because they just got sentenced to around 5 years each - kind of like a darwin award they're gonna get the piss taken out of them in jail.
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Since when was 12/11/04 in March?
Are you sure that he didn't die laughing at you?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
this guy heard: "Stop, we have you surrounded. This is the police." and then ran away although he did not know the position of the assumed policemen? ...
Not the brightest guy - he might have been easily shot if this had been real
Do they have surround sound?
:P
Either it is awfully good sound system or really dumb crooks!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
This is an amusing story, but how do we know this happened? Did the crook get caught and confess this? Or is this just some joke people are taking as fact?
From the article: "Back in March, Sandy Wilson was taking care of her three grandsons when a group of men attempted to burglarize her home, pointing a gun at the kids.".
So back in March, it couldn't have been GTA:SA
that he was in the US.In our small country , England , the Govt would charge the old lady , for scaring the burglar.
On a serious note , this is a very big issue.Unlike the US , where the rights of home owners using force against burglars are quite clear , in the UK this is a grey area.Home owners can use reasonable force only and that is decided by the courts.
Wanted : A Signature.
I was playing DDR when the burglar broke in, He got pissed, beat me and shot me!
Yeah, you beat me to the chase.
I recall the line was in both of the previous games, so really it could have been GTA3 or vice city.
*or* if you wanted to take the newspaper literally, it might have actually been GTA for playstation.
+5, Truth
...is the burglar got away because the cop that was chasing him ducked when he heard "eat this, pig!"
(Sounds like an urban legend to me...)
He had been carrying a gun, panicked and started shooting.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
The verb is 'burgle', and one who burgles is a burglar.
You don't call a burglar a 'burglarizer', do you?
Cripes!
Especially as seeing she's a poor old lady.
Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
Well...at leasn now we know that the recordings are realistic!
The dictionary would disagree with you: Burglarize
go ahead, make fun of the way americans speak, but just know we will always snicker when you tell us you're going to go "smoke a fag"!
time is a perception of a being's consciousness
time is your 6th sense, the wierd ones are 7+
"This is the Police" "This is the FBI" "This is the Army" "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" ...
Thieves : Oh damn, we are so screwed this time, (start shooting everywhere).
and please, stop making words up, it's worse than boswollox
Lightning Pool
Suttree, a weblog about casual games development
Even better, look at the definition of burgle. It cross-references burglarize.
Please, stop making words up, it's worse than boswollox
Of course burglarize is a word. Before you criticize someone's grammar maybe you should read a dictionary.
That's ok, whenever you boys go "fill your car with gas", we'll always imagine you farting away in your ve-hic-les :-)
I think you should take a look at this before you talk about spelling and grammar any more.
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
Somewhere in America:
Operator: "Hello, this is 911, how may I help you?"
Citizen: "HELP! I've been bloody burgled by two tall guys with fags and they are making off!"
Operator: "Is this some kind of a sick joke? Call when you have an emergency. "
There was a knock at the door, he opened it a crack to answer it (he was in his boxers). The door was forced open and he was pinned to the floor by a bunch of heavily armed cops!
It seems a neighboor had heard somebody yell "Everybody get down!" followed by some gun shots, put 1 and 1 together and came up with 3...
And in fact, the poster made a huge leap there. Even the article just refers to it as "Grand Theft Auto":
I suspect it was GTA:VC, since I don't recall that GTA3 had police scanner messages like that (best you'd get, you'd hear radio chatter if you were driving a police car, or if you had a wanted rating .. "suspect last seen in ___".)
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
You mean ... you read Slashdot for something other than amusement?
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I'm looking for a video game that randomly says "Thank you for ordering the Anniversary Special Bouquet. It will be ready for pickup shortly".
-aiabx
Just this guy, you know?
"I'm gonna give you to the count of ten to get your ugly, yella, no-good keister off my property before I pump yer guts full of lead. One... two... TEN!" *ACKACKACKACKACKACK* *pizza guy runs away all scared*
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Dont own only one gun. Or one knife.
"Officer, he broke in, and had just picked up my other gun and i was forced to shoot him!!"
Same goes for knives. THe only problem is, sadly, you can no longer just beat the crap/wound someone breaking into your house, you have to kill them to make sure you dont get sued or arrested.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
because he should never bring a knife to a gun fight.
Fight Spammers!
Operator: "Hello, this is 911, how may I help you?"
:-)
Unlikely -- we'd dial 999. Take that smart guy
Slashdot looked deep within my soul and assigned
me a number based on the order in which I joined
Yeah, but we don't consider someone dressed in pants, a vest and suspenders to be suitably dressed in our society;)
LOL You made me smile.
Thanks
what?
If the burgler had just played Thief...
his Prize for being so dumb is prison and lets hope he enjoys that prize for many many years to come.
and for all the uk press i.e BBC you say GTA is bad for children fuckin tell that to these kids pareants.
I Predict A Riot
Tec: Hey, yo, that was ill. Hey, where'd you learn that from?
B-rad: Grand Theft Auto 3.
Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold
Unlikely -- we'd dial 999. Take that smart guy :-)
Quoth the grandparent post:
Somewhere in America:
Using old english suffixes on your verbs doesn't make you one whit smarter when you have zero english comprehension skills.
The grandparent was referring to the fact that the Brit would have dialed 999 and not reached emergency services at all.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
>Some robbers tried to burglarize a poor old lady and her 3
Why are old ladies always poor? Do non-poor ladies never get robbed (they should, they have more money).
She's been ambushing burglars with video games for years, then taking all their money. This time the grandchildren called the real cops. A clever scheme and she would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for those pesky kids.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
lol i can barely tell if this is sarcastic/troll or what, but yeah, they are humans too even if they don't have much to contribute to society and judge-dredd vigilante justice attitudes are no substitute for a court, no matter how bureaucratic it is. Theres a big difference between someone protecting their home and a red-neck hic shouting 'you gots urself 3 seconds to geeet off ma' land!'
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The burglars who ran away are suing the owners of the home, the children, and Sony for causing them excessive job stress.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Looks like we're blasting off again! *ting*
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
I usually wouldn't do this, but since:
... being apprehended by Playstation."
1) The article is only 4 paragraphs long, and
2) At the time of my reply, this moron has been modded to +3 Insightful,
Galveston County Asst DA Michael Elliott explained, "The police in the game were staying, 'Stop, we have you surrounded. This is the police.' The burglar, unknowingly, thought this was the actual police and panicked
and also
Police arrested the four men. Samuel Woodrow received a five-year prison sentence this week. Ronnie Farris is serving four years. Lucas Griffin got probation. And Zachary Brandenburg's trial is in January.
It's one thing for a -1 post to say things like "wah, wah, wah, what are you talking about, this is stupid, i bet it's a hoax" but when people are burning real modpoints, it's just a travesty. Travesty I tell ya.
Not really.
The burglar trained himself on GTA.
Most likely the burglar didn't get scared of the sound from GTA because it sounded like cops. When he heard the sound he probably just figured out someone was at home and decided to escape. Burglars want to do their business alone... not when the house is packed with people.
I demand the Cone of Silence!
Someone who burgles is a burglar. It's that simple, just like someone who warbles is a warbler. Distorting the verb form to "burglarize" is silly: you wouldn't say someone who's a warbler warblerizes, would you?
I wonder how long it'll be until you start calling someone who "burglarizes" a "burglarizer"?
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
The story is a funny little urban anecdote, but that's it. Burglers get scared off by a lot of things - and they usually don't rob houses while there are people in them so any sign of life can often scare them off.
If this is news then I'm now waiting for a sensationalist story about a startled burgler or even a policeman on a routine call hearing the audio of some game character making a threat or seeing a high resolution gun pointed at him on a big screen and returning fire, hitting a kid.
Emergency number here in Australia is 000 Seems to make a lot more sense to me, maybe theres some technical reason for not using the simplest combination? Or maybe a different reason?
printf("Goodbye cruel world!\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b");
It wasn't released last March, the poster put the wrong title.
Guess the editors aren't doing their job...
100% Insightful
It's an Americanism. M-W will of course have it in their dictionary, as they are an American company. If you ask the OED, then you'll find it as a North American term for "burgle". Instead of everyone criticizing each other, maybe we should _all_ learn to check a variety of sources before making such statements.
Quoth -vs- quote is not a matter of 'verb suffix'. They come from completely different word stems.
follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/moeffju
I'm an Oxford graduate, but live in the USA so when in Rome, and all that.
The reason for not using the simplest combination is probably so the combination isn't easy to dial accidently. 911 is much harder to mistakenly dial than 000 or 999.
My UID is prime is yours?
This may be the funniest thing I'v ever read on slashdot. Then again I just got up and my judgment is impaired.
Why not? My freshman year in college was the same year the GTA III came out.
Having lived in a dorm with people's PS2s hooked up to their stereos blasting GTA III, I can tell you that the sirens are very realistic.
However, I can't speak for GTA:SA's sounds.
Winner of The Second Annual Montgomery Burns Award for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.
911 was chosen as it is 9 pulses followed by 2 (seperate) pulses.
000 would be 30 pulses (with a break between sets of 10).
911 was originally implemented when the majority, if not everyone, still had pulse dial.
It was a combination which was thought to prevent misdials.
So I'm trying to figure out... where did the person who posted this story get the idea that it was definitely from the San Andreas edition of GTA?
I haven't played any of the GYA games... is the sound effect being referred to by this story only in the SA version of GTA or something?
Certainly if it _was_ GTA:SA, then the story's a fake because I understand it wasn't available back in March.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
And then "You've been burglarizored!"
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Aliens were trying to abduct my grandmother, but I was playing Halo and they heard me operating the Scorpion, so they ran away.
Fuck yourself right off, limey! If some douchebag steps into my house without permission, I've got every right to blow his fucking head off.
ROFL! Your honour, I rest my case.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
People always complain about the extreme of laws but never seem to have the intelligence to ask why these laws are there.
The laws in question deal with two things. So called self-defence and playing your own judge.
There was time when property owners (the upper class/royalty) had plenty of rights. Steal or even just be on the land of the local landlord and you could be killed by his guards. Punishments was whatever the local lord saw fit to deal out.
This has changed. Now it is up to the police and court system to punish crimes.
Do criminals have rights? Well the problem is who defines who is a criminal? Is a peasant catching a deer to feed his family a criminal? Well yes and off with their head.
Nowadays we prefer the courtsystem to decide guilt and punishment. Sometimes this results in "unjust" decisions but what every intelligent person has to ask themselve is what would the alternative result in. Would you allow force to protect a car from being broken into?
My car is parked on parking lot and you standing next to it causes the alarm to go off. Luckily I got my gun and under your jobbo rule I blow him away. Oops turned out you just bumped my car with your elbow while opening your own. Oh well. At least your family has the right to shoot people who trespass on your grave eh?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Idealist and idealistic mean different things.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
These kids probably WAREZed it!
The conlusion is that both pirated games AND violent games are great for society.
You complaining to me? I think you'll find that I'm on the same side of the Atlantic as you...
The bad guys didn't use cheats? Obviously, they forgot about R1, R1, Circle, R2, Up, Down, Up, Down, Up, Down. That would have lowered the wanted level. What n00bs.
over and over. It starts losing all meaning -like banana phone.
This seems like a text-book example of making the news rather than reporting the news. It sounds like someone decided to put their own twist or assumption at the forefront without having all the facts.
More likely, the burglars either realized someone was home, or else they recognized Grand Theft Auto and thought the percentage of meeting some psychotic kid (as a result of playing too many violent video games) just increased.
Either way, there's nothing unusual about this. The burglars entered, got spooked, and left. It happens often enough that it definitely doesn't deserve front-page status on Slashdot just because some kids were playing a video game.
As this story happenned in March, there is no way that it was San Andreas.
put the what in the where?
Ahhh. That makes sense.
printf("Goodbye cruel world!\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b");
Apparently it was a serious technical challenge back when 999 was introduced (in the 1930's I think). 0 would have connected to the operator before the other 2 digits were dialed. They probably could have used 111 instead. Other three digit codes were used as the first three digits of other numbers.
Apparently the choice of 000 for Australia has caused problems in the past. Some automatic systems default to dialling 000000. I've also known someone who was upset to find that some modem software defaulted to 999888777, thus connecting him to the emergency services when he ran it.
Someone who burgles is a burglar. It's that simple, just like someone who warbles is a warbler. Distorting the verb form to "burglarize" is silly: you wouldn't say someone who's a warbler warblerizes, would you?
Spoken like someone just makin' stuff up. In fact, it's a totally different situation, as you'd find if you'd consult a dictionary. While "warbler" is indeed formed in the way you guess, "burgle" is actually a back-formation from burglar.
Fine, construct new words from old however you want, but actually, "burglarize" is the logical, standard, and normal way to turn nouns into verbs in English.
Not only are quoth and quote completely different words, but you clearly don't even know what old english is. I'll give you a hint: old english is old enough that even Shakespeare wouldn't have been able to understand it.
This is a good excuse for all of the kids who want GTA but parents won't let them get it.
If they had been playing GTA, they would have recognized the audio from the game.
You're also confusing cause and corrolation. You play violent games because you already enjoy or are attracted to that type of violence. If you weren't then the game would offend you and you wouldn't play it. I am attracted to games like Halo but the type of violence in GTA isn't appealing to me so I don't play it.
Games may increase someone's already existing level of aggression but they cannot create it from nothing and they certainly never CAUSE it.
If they don't have a spare gun handy, I'm sure they could just borrow one from the neighbors.
Mal-2
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
If you actually RTFA you will see that this happened last March. Grand Theft Auto:San Andreas was not even out yet. Had to be either the orginal GTA or GTA: Vice City.
...you could have possibly made. This is NOT a question of pesants and king and deer. In case you didn't notice, that's not how the US is anymore. It's families living in small track homes or apartments.
The issue is, when an intruder breaks in and threatens your property, safety, life, or life of your family, what are you allowed to do? It's nice to sit reading Slashdot, sipping a cappuccino and say "Well the courts will deal out what punishment they deserve, you should just sit and let them have what they want." What if what they want is to rape your daughter? Or to beat your son until he can't walk? Do you just sit and let it happen or do you defend yourself and your family?
We aren't talking medieval land laws, we are talking basic ethics: Keep your hands off my shit and stay out of my house if you aren't invited.
What worries me is that if an ammendment can be legslated away "for the public good" what about the others? There are plenty of other ammendments that are troublesome, and the government has made attempts in the past and now to curtail.
If they legslate away the second, then that's great prescident for them to say "We need to get rid of the sixth ammendment. Look at all the drug dealers and evil doers that get off on technicalities because of their scumbag lawyers. The defandant doesn't need a lawyer, they just twist the truth. Our Great and Noble prosecutors are only concerned with the truth, so that's all that is needed. Don't worry, this won't be abused, it just helps make you safe."
I mean you can argue that basically any ammendment should be done away with to make us safer. In a perfect world, that'd be the case. If the government were composed of perfectly noble beings, than none of these rights would be necessary, because all they do is et in the way of the conviction of the guilty.
However, that's NOT the case. Governments are corrupt, all of them, to some degree because HUMANS are corrupt. There are next to no examples of perfectly noble human beings. So things like the Bill of Rights exist to control that, and to protect people by ensuring the government can't do whatever it wants.
Get yourself a woof-dog, meaning a largish dog that likes to bark when someone comes to the door. Doesn't need to be a mean dog, or an attack dog or anything like that, just not a tiny little rat dog and not a super quiet dog. Most largish dogs will fit the bill, since they'll woof at people coming by just by nature.
A dog woofing is as or more scary than an alarm because it not only alerts the owners, it could end up being the kind of dog that'll rip you apart. Most crooks will go elsewhere rather than risk it.
That and it's nice to have a dog that loves you no matter what come and greet you at the door every day. They are always happy to see you come home.
About 7 years back our house was nearly broken into. At the time I was an IRC junkie (running my own network and all). We used to play this wav file that had a guy screaming WAKEUP!!! and we would play it frequently late at night to get each others attention.
:)
For some reason all the thief did was open the window. For some reason he didn't go any further. Our best guess is when he was breaking in he heard a wave file yelling WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!
Ian
Guns oppress you!
Federal agents can hold American citizens indefinitely in a foriegn country without charges. They can read your email or listen to your phone conversations on little more than a whim. They can seize your property on mere suspicion of drug crimes, and you will have no recourse or compensation even if you are eventually acquitted.
The US government has already overstepped their constitutional bounds, and all our guns didn't stop it.
0 1 - just my two bits
Surely somebody who burgles is a burglator.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
They could have just used 711 ;-)
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
And a plagiarist plages, right?
I asked as a child (when phones had rotary dials and pulse mechanisms) why 999 was for an emergency - where 111 would be much faster to dial.
The answer I was given was that in a dark smoke-filled house, when you find the phone, you stick your finger in the hole next to the fingerguard and that's the 9.
can anyone confirm this was the reason for choosing 999?
http://www.frugle.co.uk/
this story sounds like home alone, further confirmed by the fact that if the burgularizers were scared away, nobody would have known.
Somehow the parent is absolving the repeat burglers who abuse the law in its current state on the grounds of the state of things 500 years ago ?
And somehow some moderator as clueless as the parent gave him mod points ? wtf ?
Over and out.
911 was originally implemented when the majority, if not everyone, still had pulse dial.
So was 000 (also used in Australia), for precisely the same reason - difficult to accidentally call due to misdialling or a fault in the phone/line/exchange. (New Zealand uses 111 - their pulse system is backwards compared to Australia and the US: ten pulses for 0, nine for 1, eight for 2 etc.)
I hoped he ran for some nearby trees or bushes when he heard the police helicopters closing in on him.
Is pulse dialing in the US different to pulse dialing in the rest of the world? If I read what you've said correctly, US pulse phones started at 0 then counted backwards from 9 to 1, while the phones we had started at 0 then counted upwards from 1 to 9 (meaning 9 only used 1 pulse, while 1 used 9 pulses). You can test this on a tone-dialling phone by tapping the hang-up lever to generate the pulses (the rule in this country is that you always subtract the digit you want to dial from 10).
Now that I think about it, this made the English 999 a hell of a lot faster to dial in an emergency, whereas my country's 111 is quite a bit slower. One thing you don't want when someone is trying to smash their way into your house is to stand around waiting for that damn dial to rotate back all the way around... not that it applies these days.
This sig is part of your complete breakfast.
Dammit, where do I know that line from?!
It was in The Punisher (movie, don't know about the comics).
Oops, my mistake, apparently NZ is the only place that has their dial in this order. I thought our original phone said it was made in the UK, so I assumed their dials were the same. I guess it's possible the phone was made in the UK, but to get a telepermit they had to have the plastic dial replaced (?)
This sig is part of your complete breakfast.
They actually had guns pointed at the children before turning tail and running off. Thus it wasn't knowing that there was someone in the house that scared them.
Further, they've been caught and charged. It seems likely that the distinction wrt what it was that lead them to run off would have come out by now.
Good to see George W. Bush partaking in the Internets.
Attack its weak point for massive damage!
...to get GTA:San Andres since it was not available back in March when this attack happened. I would guess it was more likely GTA3 or GTA:Vice City.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
I remember being told that it was the least likely to be 'dialed' by line noise and the like. I doubt that would be a problem now but both of these sound likely, especially when you go back to the earliest days.
..."-1, Fucking Gross" modifier, when you need it?!
Brings a new meaning to the term "savegame"!
You look beautiful! Incidentally, my favourite artist is Picasso.
http://www.phonebooth.us/phones/images/Web%20500DM .jpg
As you can see, 0 is the hole next to the fingerguard.
shut it hoe
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If drugs weren't so fucking expensive here that people wouldn't need to burglarize to pay for their crack?! Trust me, if you like to smoke a spliff now and again- you really don't want to come here.. -g
I use friend/foe to signal strong [dis]agreement instead of mod points. What else are f/f good for?
The NRA would have a press release.
paintball
Keep the change, filthy animal.
Right to live trumps right to property.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
It's likely an urban legend. even if they were scared by the sirens in the game, they likely weren't convinced by "come out with your hands up". Did they interview the guys who told why they fled the house? There's many things that could (and does) scare burglars out. Heck, I was looking for a freshly stolen car the other night, then found it abandoned in an alley, doors open. They bailed because they were spooked. I then realized that an ambulance, sirens wailing, had just driven down and stopped on the road next to the alley for an unrelated run. That's likely why they bailed, they thought they were spotted and being chased. But how easily we could make an urban legend out of that, and say some kids were playing GT3 hooked up to their 1500 watt stereo system, and that spooked them.
"Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity."
Where on earth would you live that someone wanting to steal your DVD player and the $50 worth of cash in your dresser would actually bother to bring a gun with them? If they come in and realize you're home, they just going to leave. Plus, try it in my house and you're going to get a jaw full of rottweiller teeth in your leg.
I just find it odd that even though property crime rates are about even in both Canada and the U.S., you see the following difference in homicide rates:
Homicide (per 100,000)
Canada: 1.9
U.S.: 5.6
That's even though Canadians are more urban, less pro-life, less fire-and-brimstone religious, just as multi-cultural, and own almost as many guns (about 70% of the U.S. rate of ownership - though it's admittedly hard to find exact rates).
Does anybody have ANY idea why the homicide rate is so much higher in the U.S. than other industrialized nations? I mean a real intelligent idea? Canadians and Americans just aren't that different, so why the huge difference in this one area? If someone could figure it out, the U.S. could stand to stop 10,000 homicides per year. If each life is 1 million dollars (per insurance rates), thats 10 billion in savings every year!
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
How much do you want to bet that "burgle" has been around in usage a lot longer than "burglarize"? So who exactly is "construct[ing] new words from old however [they] want" here?
And, no matter what you're smoking, verb formations are commonly shorter, not longer, than noun ones: a builder builds, a seller sells, a buyer buys, a helper helps, a writer writes, an editor edits, a publisher publishes, a reader reads, etc, etc.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
How much do you want to bet that "burgle" has been around in usage a lot longer than "burglarize"?
How much money do you have that you want to lose? I'll bet that much -- it wouldn't be nice to bet more, since, as I thought I implied, I *did* look this up. OED2's first reference to "burglarize" is from 1871, and "burgle" the next year. Plus, "burgle" gets the note "of very recent appearance".
What's more, "burgle" is noted as "orig. colloq. or humorous" -- that is, it's likely the people who first said it realized that they were making a silly, non-standard construction for humorous effect. Like I said, I don't care if this later became acceptible normal language -- there's plenty of interesting ways for new words to be created.
Also, all of your "verbs are shorter" examples are irrelevant, by the way: those are simple cases where the noun is formed in the standard way from the verb. Going the other direction *also* works by adding a suffix ("ize", instead of "er/or"). Better examples (keeping with the criminal theme): "vandalize" is longer than "vandal", "brutalize" is longer than "brutal", and "terrorize" is longer than "terror".
From (US-centric) Dictionary.com's entry for burglar: [Anglo-Norman burgler(alteration of burgesur, probably from Old French burg, borough), Medieval Latin burgulator(alteration of burgator, from burgare, to commit burglary in, from Late Latin burgus, fortified town) both of Germanic origin. See bhergh-2 in Indo-European Roots.]
In other words, "burgle" is not a back-formation of burglar, as your originally wrote, but is derived from the Medieval Latin verb "burgare". So that blows your original argument out of the water, doesn't it? Now, if you think that "burgare" became "burglarize" before it became "burgle" then, boy, do I have a bridge for you.
Remember, this is a word of Medieval European derivation, yet no where in Britain, or most of its former colonies, is the word "burglarize" in use. So what seems more likely to you: that all those former colonies (including some that became nations in their own right over two hundred years ago, such as Australia) at some stage all dropped "burglarize" in favour of "burgle", or that "burglarize" is exclusively a construct of American English?
Ever notice that "burglarize" has that "-ize" suffix that's almost exclusively associated with modern day American English? (In Britain and elsewhere, "-ise" is used almost everytime Americans use "-ize".
And have you checked the usage of these words online? Googling for "burglarise": less than 1,000 entries total (most obscure dictionary references). "Burglarize": 21,500 entries. "Burgle": 24,900 entries. Even on the Internet, which is still heavily US-centric in terms of content, that's a clear indication that "burgle" gets the nod over "burglarize".
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
In other words, "burgle" is not a back-formation of burglar, as your originally wrote, but is derived from the Medieval Latin verb "burgare".
No, burgle is not a derivation of burgare, burglar is. Your quote states that. Consequently, if burgare became burglar then burglarize is just as likely to have developed before hand than burgle.
Now, if you look up burgle on Dictionary.com, you will find this:
It's the first definition, from the American Heritage Dictionary. The second definition, from Merriam-Webster Dictionary of Law, does not even give a definition, it just references to burglarize.Also, your -ize vs. -ise has about as much relevance to the conversation as whether color should have a u in it.
That someone modded you up. Time to head for MetaMod and punish a few people for also failing to read the article.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. From the verb "burgare" to the verbs "burgle" or "burglarize": which looks like the simpler, more natural progression and which looks like the bigger, more forced leap?
2. All the dictionaries you're talking about are American publications with an overwhelming emphasis on American English, so of course they're US-centric in providing definitions. (If I wanted to be patronising then I'd add a "duh" here, but I'm not, I'm trying to have a serious conversation about etymology and the development of language.)
3. Of course the "-ize" vs "-ise" debate is relevant here. If as you say "burgle" is some sort of bad bastardisation of the language, then you'd expect to see "burglarise" commonly used in Britain, Australasia, South Africa, Canada, India, and elsewhere in the English speaking world, because where Americans use "-ize" the rest of the world uses "-ise" almost without exception.
Earlier you mentioned "vandalize", "brutalize" and "terrorize": to everyone but Americans, those words should be spelt "vandalise", "brutalise" and "terrorise", so if "burglarize" is so right and "burgle" is so wrong you'd expect to see "burglarise" in common usage too, but you don't.
QED.
And, yes, I did just write "spelt",: it's like "slept", "dreamt", "felt", etc; only Americans insist on using "spelled".
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Apologies, it was mattdm (1931) who mentioned "vandalize", etc but the point I made is still just as valid.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
If we gets deevorced, are we stills brutha n sistah?
All hail the gun nuts.
all you are, is all you are, i'm so sorry for you.
To my English Ears 'burglarize' sounds like an abomination. However, I found an interesting article that suggest that both 'burgle' and 'burglarizer' both appeared in the language at roughly the same time, and that different sides of the Atlantic simply chose differently.
Washinton Post, 2042:
In recent developments, Bloomington, Illinois acquired nuclear weapons to defend itself.
Bloomington has announced that ..
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
Burglarize? Is that even a word? The verb is burgle; hence, one who burgles is a burglar.
No, they have "we have you surrounded" sound.
I am not left-handed, either!
Yes, but to urban Legends get posted in the newspaper of the city mentioned in the article. Has a few more details in it than the posted story too
Because in the States, you have nothing to lose.
A) There's no social safety net so if you're sick or hungry, you're SOL.
B) The amount of jail time you get for an offence, it doesn't matter that much if you throw in some extra shit. Only the first murder costs you, they're all free after that.
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
I don't care if you say "burgle". That's clearly the common British word, even if it was originally a joke -- ironically pretty much the same joke as the Three Stooge's "murderize" (except in the other direction).
But it's silly to insist that the clearly-correct "burglarize" is somehow inferior. It's spelled in the American way because Americans started using it at about the same time Britons started using "burgle", which apparently became common enough quickly enough that "burglarise" never really got used.
As for how we "insist" on spelling things: well, that's what our varient of the language does. Surprise! Not everything is the same everywhere in the world! You sound somehow bitter about that.
And you can write "QED" all you like, but it still sounds pretty much like your first guess (probably something you'd never thought about) was wrong and yet instead of admitting that and learning something about the language, you have to keep arguing. (Insisting that "burgle" comes naturally from a word with no Ls in it? Claiming that the Oxford English Dictionary is an American publication?) Which is to be expected on Slashdot, but it's still kinda, I dunno, pick your preferred patronizing term.
It's like that line in the Home Alone movie. "Keep the change you filthy animal." And the pizza boy runs away with machine gun noises.
1. Uh, if "burglar" comes from a word with no Ls in it then why can't "burgle" come from the very same word, which like "burgle" happens to be a verb too?
2. I never said the OED was an American publication (although I bet they do print US versions), I said that the other dictionaries referenced in the parent post to the one that you're referring to were American publications.
3. You think it's a coincidence that Britain, Australasia, South Africa, Canada, India and you name it uses "burgle" whereas only the US uses "burglarize"? Granted, South Africa and India were part of the British Empire at the end of the 19th century but Australia's been an independent country for over 200 years and Canada gained independence in 1867.
If "burgle" is some British bastardisation of the English language, then why is it used in those countries too? Occam's Razor would suggest that "burgle" didn't suddenly crop up in the lexicon of three different subsets of English simultaneously, but you're free to argue that it did if you want to.
Seriously, would you argue that a bugler "buglerizes"? Wouldn't that seem silly to you? Because that's how ridiculous "burglarize" looks from here.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
My god, you're still arguing? Look, go find a copy of the OED, look in the front and find the contact information, and send all of your arguments to them and see if they'll agree to change what they say. Mention Occam's Razor to them too -- I'm sure they'll be very impressed.
(Funny but it's not me who's blowing someone off with pithy comments or one-liners here, is it?)
Arguing? Well, if you want to call trying to engage in a serious conversation about etymology arguing, well, then I guess I am arguing. But, if nothing else, doesn't what I've said suggest to you that "burgle" has been around for longer than "burglarize"? Or, given that it's not used anywhere else in the world, that "burglarize" is an Americanism?
And, by the way, the one print dictionary that I have access to here (published by Collins) has "burgle" but no mention of "burglarize", even though it does contain alternative American spellings to words such as "colour", "centre", "aluminium", etc, which is strange if "burgle" is totally unused in the US. I don't claim that as empirical proof of anything but, again, it does seem to suggest that burgle is more universal than perhaps you might think.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Sure, "burgle" happens to be the normal British word, and "burglarize" the normal American word. The American one happens to have been formed in the standard way, and the British in a humorous one. It doesn't surprise me if you can find examples of either word in either country. However, many Americans would still think of "burgle" as slightly silly -- with justification given its origin. On the other hand, the rampant disparagment in this thread of the completely standard formation of the American word is just unfounded snobbery.
Your Collins dictionary might simply not bother to list "burglarize", as many dictionaries don't list all possible standard constructions from every word.
As I said in an earlier message, OED cites both words as appearing at approximately the same time, both relatively recently (around 1870), and clearly marks "burgle" as "orig. colloq. or humorous".
2. I only used the resource that you originally quoted, namely Dictionary.com. You ignored the reference to the OED, and instead went with a website's offerings instead, and so, to ensure fair comparisons, I used your same source. Unlike you, I also included the actual dictionary's names for further reference points, as well. If you don't like that Dictionary.com is American-centric, then 1) point to another web reference, and I'll use that instead, and 2) don't complain when your original reference site turns against you.
3. As already mentioned to you, but ignored, the OED has burgle appearing the year after burglarize, in 1872. Whatever the reason for burgle's rise to popularity, be it anti-American sentiment at the time or whatever, it's had more than 130 years to take hold as common usage. Consequently, no, -ise vs. -ize has no place in this argument, except as an attempt to divert from the real point.
And to respond to a later argument, Canada gained independence in 1867, burgle appeared in 1872. I hardly think 5 years is enough time to honestly allow for a country to complete shed all ties to it's former homeland. I mean, Canadian money still has the Queen on it. They may be independent, but that doesn't mean they're completely seperate. The same goes for Australia, especially considering the region of the world it's in.
As for the last line of your comment, I'll quote you twice.
Quote 1:And, yes, I did just write "spelt",: it's like "slept", "dreamt", "felt", etc; only Americans insist on using "spelled".
Quote 2:(Funny but it's not me who's blowing someone off with pithy comments or one-liners here, is it?)
Hypocritize much?
(Notice, how by adding -ize to hypocrite, I made it a verb, albeit a poor one, not in the dictionary. According to your logic (i.e. remove the part of the word which makes it a noun and replace that with the verb forming silent -e), it would be easier, and make more sense, to say "Hypocre much." Right.)
also...we don't insist on using "spelled" (or "spilled, for that matter)...our english teachers do. I used to piss mine off because I prefer "theatre" over "theater", but aside from that, I toed the line like everybody else.
This is a pretty decent pedantic argument thread, though...keep up the good work, everybody [makes note to kill self]...
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
"UKia"? That's a new one on me. I once heard a yank refer to "the united states of kingdom" which I thought was great.
Sorry for adding so late.
Yes urban legends to end up all over the media in the place they supposedly happen, but only when the journalism of the local media is so craptastic they cant bother to actually check the facts.
In columbus, Ohio. A mall was the supposed site of a famous legend, the story spread and the local media printed it as truth. Then a couple days late when no one could verify in any way the contents of the legend hey started to try to backtrack on the fear they were capitaliziing on.
The UL in this case was an old 1800's era one.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.