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Cognitive Enhancement Drugs
Neil Halelamien writes "The LA Times has an article on various cognitive enhancement drugs which are currently undergoing clinical trials. These include ampakines which amplify the strength of electrical signals between neurons, HT-0712 which enhances the transfer from short-term to long-term memory, and gene therapy which revitalizes existing neurons. The article also describes successes with the drug Modafinil, which seems to sharpen attention and mental agility. The side effects of these sorts of drugs are not yet fully known, although many neuroscientists think that they may lead to 'mental clutter' or task-obsessiveness."
Quote: It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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the Nobel prize committee will have to start testing for brain doping?
-or so you'd think
Well. So are we gonna have to start taking drug tests before final exams?
Well i wonder what the long term effects of drugs could be to your brain...also drug tests on Jeopardy and other quiz shows seem to be likely if these medicines get approved ever.
These guys seem to be looking at lots and lots of drugs. They still seem to be ignoring the tried-and-true caffine. *jitter*
Caffine wakes you up, gives you more energy, speeds up your metabolism, and gives you a headache. Plus, it's been in use for years.
Excuse me, I need to go drink more Bawls now.
Silence is golden... and duct tape is silver.
We already have Ritalin. Is this one closely related to methamphetamine, too?
debasement of human existence in order to "treat" a "disease" that's just an excuse for bad parenting.
The perfect worker:incapable of thinking of anything but the job he's concentrating on. Expect these to be mandatory by 2015.
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
We are stepping into a world where intelligence can be bought. Where we can manipulate our own biology to make us stronger and smarter. Will they do drug tests for college/univ students ?
Is intelligence worth anything? If so, is it fair to give people an advantage because they have money?
Mark my words, this is a dawn of a new era.
I'm posting this AC because slashdot mods tend to be prudes, but seriously -- I find that sex really opens up my mind and enhances my cognitive abilities (yeah I've seen the Seinfeld episode).
Studying for your exams and making no progress? Call up your significant other, or make a surprise visit. Single? Get some porn if you're a guy or some of that erotic literature if you're a girl, and you'll be well relaxed and sharper than ever before.
You know - of all the things I've learned in medicine and in life in general, there's always a price. The orientals had so much right with their yin and yang idea.
There was a time a few years ago where I was at this incredible ball/party and had the time of my life - it was such a high. The next day I was strangely a bit mellow and depressed. Perhaps all of the neural cascades that had let me have that high the night earlier were now a bit depleted.
I have this espresso machine which I love and the drinks give me this lovely little warm feeling inside - but if I drink too many, when the effect is gone I feel cold and tired.
Same thing for narcotics. We all know about the highs of some of those drugs - which are invariably followed with lows that force people to do anything to spare that.
O.k., so you take a drug that makes you concentrate a bit better. What happens later? Are you a bit dumber for a while afterwards? I respect Cephalon's attempts to stave Parkinsons' but be careful about other "enhancing" drugs.
For every action there's always a reaction. Just live a healthy life - eat well and exercise.
Wait, Celebrex? Don't you mean Vioxx?
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I'm going to bet that regular use does lead to OCD, and perhaps they will find that people with OCD have higher levels of brain chemicals that these drugs enhance.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
I suppose saying that a lack thereof makes me twitchy and irritable is the same thing. So, I second the thought. (Though it's also a great way to just plain procrastinate...)
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Red Bull gives you Wings!!!
I heard somewhere that caffeine was frowned upon in high-class chess tournaments... will this new discovery get tested for? Brain-doping for chess? :)
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This seems like a useful place to point out an interesting read on Jerry Pournelle's web site on overclocking the brain.
I don't see a direct connection between the two articles, but perhaps someone more informed about neurochemistry could point one out.
Have a look on Google for Piracetam. Similar thing. I tried to find out about side effects, but I couldn't find any. Someone I know takes a load before reading a whole set of Cisco coursebooks. It works for him - He's not a CCIE - yet, but he's a CCISP, and all the other ones.
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Screw cognitive drugs, I want drugs that give me pre-cognition!
Linux Wireless Hardware in the UK
I for one welcome our new Emergent overlords!
:)
Sorry a bit obscure
Success is as dangerous as failure, hope as hollow as fear.
This sounds more like 'Super-Ritalin'.
I think I'll let others be the guinea pigs. Even after clinic trials (which only involve a few thousand people watched for only a year or so) doctors only have the barest of clues as to the effects and side-effects of a drug. It takes a long time, a bunch of studies, and a serious sample size to uncover the more subtle, rare-but-serious and long-term impacts of a medication.
No short-term trial can prove a drug is truly safe and efficacious. Until much, much, more data is in, I think I'll wait.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
While mind-enhancing drugs are novel, mind-enhancing diets and mind-enhancing environments have been the privilage of the well-to-do since time began.
The privilaged generally eat better than the unprivilaged. They generally have less exposure to environmental toxins. They generally have a more education-centric environment growing up.
Even measurements of mental ability can be manipulated by "teaching the test" or "teaching to the test." Someone with a "un-coached" SAT score of 1150 may score 1170 if they've been coached on how to take the test or if their parents or teachers focused on items likely to be on that particular test at the expense of other material.
All in all, if your parents have the means, you are more likely to have a better raw iq, possibly an enhanced measured intelligence, and a better education than someone whose parents are not of means.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
This isn't all that helpful. What I want is some way to spend more of my time awake, instead of wasting 8 hours a day sleeping. Why don't these companies work on that problem instead?
And no, caffeine is not the answer for this.
With Qiang Zao and her line tracing. Immensely intelligent but just psychologically handicapped enough so as never to be a real threat.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
My PC isn't fast enough. I'll enhance it's electrical affinity by plugging it from the 110V socket into this 220V transformer! And my software isn't doing what I want: it's got too many 1s, and not enough zeros... I'll just enhance it with this hex editor...
--
make install -not war
The way it would work is this:
A neural network is set up to control a audio-visual environment. You dynamically measure IQ via the proxy of the (highly correlated) evoked potential response of the subject and backpropagate an error signal through the multimedia neural net inversely proportional to the dynamic IQ of the subject.
Simple in concept. With a little luck we'd have people whose brains had been stimulated to a high IQ state without ending up with something like the lawnmowerman taking over slashdot.
Seastead this.
It upsets the balance between the Alphas and Betas!
I've been using donepezil (Aricept) for about the past year. I've definitly noticed an increase in mental function. It doesn't give a buzz or put me on edge like caffine or other stimulants. There was the study mentioned in the article. I took a copy of the study to my doctor, and, after some discussion, he has been giving me samples of the drug he gets for free. I haven't noticed any side effects, just increased memory and mental acuity. It's worth talking to your doctor about to see if he'll agree to let you try it out too.
Chaos maximizes locally around me.
I wonder how long it will be before EA starts slipping these drugs into the curly fries at the company cafeteria. Why should employees be allowed to sleep when we can reprogram them not to need it?
My brain is the seat of my consciousness, my consciousness is all that "I" am. It is a very fragile thing, a hard knock to my head will destroy it. Where as my body is in comparison substantially robust, it can survive limbs being broken, and flesh torn apart... but it is not "me", it is my vehicle. It exerts a great deal of control over my brain/consciousness, as all it cares for is its own reproduction... I fight with it every day, as a parent fights the child at only wants to eat candy...
Given this (personal) view who and what I am, I am very very careful of looking after of my brain, for it is all I am. I have done drugs, I have found their effects on my consciousness somewhat,.. novel... but I don't trust that we know enough to mess with the underlying substrate of what makes Me. A small injury to my frontal lobe can turn into OCD. These Cognitive "enhancement" drugs may sound like overclocking your brain to some... but how many key rings have been made from CPUs by over enthusiastic overclockers...
I will leave this stuff to the psyconauts... if that are happy, smart and enjoying there new consciousness at the age of 80... then fine... but I know that the default configuration of my brain is tried and tested over 100,000s of years... I know it will still be (with good care of my body that feeds it) in good working order until my body packs it in from cancer/heart disease, what have you...
2c
Piracetam (and variants like Aniracetam) were pleasant for me. I'm not sure if they really boost IQ or anything similar, but they do give the impression that they help both focus and creativity. Not by an incredible amount, but worth trying.
Hydergine is another along the same lines, but I could only take half a pill without upsetting my stomach. It's supposed to work well with Piracetam, and that's consistent with my experience.
Modifinil was awful. It recreated the experience of insomnia even when I hadn't been up very long. It certainly didn't make me feel like I didn't need sleep, just like I couldn't sleep.
Expand your mind, man!
Required reading for internet skeptics
They've already developed a mind enhancing drug, and it's called beer. It helps me understand women with precise clarity, something that I can't do when I'm totally sober and supposedly "thinking straight".
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
agreed. I've been alot more insightful since I started smoking weed, even when I'm not high.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
I've been on Modafanil before (market name Provigil) to counter narcolepsy - and never saw a marked effect. YMMV, but it would seem to me that drugs targetted toward the relief of some deficiency may not provide the desired effects when used for purposes of enhancement.
To point (though abused in context), hearing aids can interfere significantly with the hearing of a non-impared individual rather than granting super-human capability.
Any spoon would be too big.
While it may lead to stuff like task-obsessivness or clutter or whatever if someone kept taking them. I wonder how well they would work in the short term for somehting like final exam period, or SAT's, etc. Some single test or period where mental acuity is very important.
I'm willing to bet you would either be or at least feel stupider when you stopped taking them though. Seems like the body has many reactions like that.
Take dopamine or melatonin boosting drugs and your body produces less of these naturally..etc.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
All I can say, is well, um, uh, I don't remember what I was going to say.
Damn.
They used to call it "coke".
But then Nancy Reagan messed that all up.
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
XD
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
The pressure to work longer hours, or to do more after work then just sleep for a couple of hours and take a couple of pills will eventually take a toll on the brain, and after years and years of doing it, we may be in a worse state in our old age.
Another problem may be that the pills start losing effect after a while and you need to take more and more to get the same effect, then you notice that if you don't take them, you aren't as alert as you used to be without the pills, and you end up just taking them to reach a "normal" level. Have any studies been done looking into whether these drugs are addictive???
Creatine has been shown to improve IQ test scores...in vegetarians. Don't know the effects in us meat eaters. But it may not be too shabby.
At least in the US, we have some kind of weird "honor"-related relationship with someone's physical abilities. We have a deep-seated feeling that it's "unfair" to dope up in order win physically. This might be because people believe that with enough excercise and hard work, anyone can be an Olympic Athelete.
:)
I think most people don't have the same kind of feelings about intelligence, because we regard it as an inborn thing. Either you're smart or you're not, and that's all there is too it, right?
I know that my intellect takes a lot of work to maintain. I'm quick, but my short-term memory isn't great and my logical abilitiy isn't much above average. I have to work very hard to keep my brain in a state where I can program computers, solve math in my head, remember things, and generally keep my nickname as "that smart guy." I may be predisposed to intelligence, but that doesn't mean that I can slack off.
In the US at least, I doubt we'd ever see "brain testing" because people don't regard intelligence as something you can build, unlike physical aptitude. People don't associate that weird puritanical "honor"-relationship with Matheletes.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I couldn't resist the opening you left when you couldn't resist;-)
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
...and not a single mention of Paul Erdös?
One of my friends is narcoleptic, and has a prescription to Provigil (Modafinil). I took some, mostly out of curiosity, on a road trip once. It's very similar to methamphetamine, although less physically invigorating. You talk a lot; have a lot of--seemingly insightful--ideas which are considerably foggier the day after. Of course, I was driving for 12 hours straight so I didn't have the opportunity to do many cognitive tests. It'd be more interesting to take some and then play a pile of online FPS games, or work on a programming project, or something more measurable. I've heard of people taking Modafinil before publicly speaking or doing a big pitch. It certainly does provide the illusion of charisma.
What is with this happy pill culture we're getting into? Are you tired and depressed? Take this pill. Are you fat? Don't exercise, take this and lose weight while you sleep. Kids hyper because you plant them in front of the TV all day? Must have ADD, here's a pill. Jesus, the world is starting to look like an Isaac Asimov novel.
And now, we have "smart pills". I can't wait to see where THIS goes.
-R
Unfortunately, people are already taking drugs to perform better on the SATs and other tests.
Adderall, a drug meant to treat ADD and ADHD, is one of the most commonly abused drugs. Its purpose is to help people with disabilities "focus" better, but it is more often than not used by people who don't even have mental handicaps, increasing test scores and giving some students an unfair advantage. This highly addictive drug, as with most drugs, requires more usage to get the same buzz or energy boost as previously obtained by the abuser.
Some side effects of the drug are: increased paranoia, delusions, and heart attacks or strokes.
Interestingly enough, the drug mentioned in the article seems to be fairly similar to the way Adderall works (the whole point about making the user more focused).
But given our culture, penis pills will still outsell brain enlargement pills 10-1
Ampakines simply turn up the gain on a large fraction of the synapse in the brain. Is that going to make you smarter? There is NO good evidence for it. Imagine indescriminately increasing the output voltage of every transistor in some complex electronic device. This will likely play havoc on the orignal design, not improve function. The drugs are interesting as research tools, but the path to a viable drug is very long, and very fraught. I'm not signing up for their clinical studies any time soon.
So if you take too many of these drugs do you end up wanting to buy your underwear at K-Mart?
Can we enroll Dubya in the trials?
So it's ok to pump up my brain with NO KNOWN SIDE EFFECTS, but it's illegal to pump up my muscles with minimal side effects in small dosages?
The hypocrisy and ignorance of the media proves that money and marketing is the only concern to the pharmecuetical industry - and the media in general. Sell more, because the idiots will buy it, until you say not to. (i.e., celebrex; fen-fen)
PS
Ephedra has yet to be proven to be harmful in dosages less than 60mg a day (the actual dosage is only 8mg). So why is it banned again? Oh, that's right - it's readily available, not hard to extract it's main nutrient - ephedrine - not hard to synthetically engineer, and is currently used as the modality of choice in China and most other asian nations as a treatment for Asthma. Yet somehow it's banned now.
Brain Steroids which have not been university double-blind placebo-controlled studied - OK!
Muscle Steroids which have been proven to be effective in low dosages with minimal - or no - side effects - Illegal
Stupidity in the media and general public? Priceless.
Maybe you could use some drug that will help you read articles before complaining about their content. Their focus is the same as yours.
Among its [the Pentagon's] aims: to develop stimulants capable of keeping soldiers awake, alert and effective for as long as seven days straight. The armed forces have taken leading roles in testing modafinil and donepezil as performance enhancers for pilots and soldiers.
What happens when you don't sleep? Among other things, you find it difficult to focus and concentrate. These drugs aim to allow you to continue alert and focused without sleeping for long periods of time, and as expected, you can focus even more if you take them in a natural state.
Some of these may be available for consumption as early as 2008 (in some form, most likely not as powerful as you want them). I'd be wary of side-effects before you take these things and start sleeping once a week though.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
LOL! Good one. I missed that hole in the theory. ;-) I've known some pretty damned smart women in my time too.
Wasn't it named Accela? Life imitating anime again?
...Accelerated...
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
These drugs are not in fact novel; there are already drugs with the same conventration enhancing effects; Penural and Etracine are both in wide use, and are specifically designed to improve concentration and eye hand co-ordination.
There might be some utility in developing these new drugs further, since they may not interact with Intervol, which is sometimes a problem.
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
Nootropics (aka "Smart Drugs") have received a lot of attention in recent years. While many skeptics remain, there are quite a few avid followers of the nootropic "fad". Two great resources for the beginner are Smart Drugs and Smart Drugs II, although a few issues have been pointed out by some people.
okay sure, but can you coach an 1150 kid into getting a 1430? dont think so. but with these drugs the kids might actually learn how to do the work well enough to do that well on the test.
steal this sig
FWIW I've come up with a number of metaphors for my experience of being autistic, and it might be useful to examine these in the context of "cognitive enhancement". There are in the "self-awareness" article directly accessible here (URL may change in the future) or through my domain.
In any event, it may be prudent to go back to the movie "Charly" and ponder his answer to the question, "What do you see?" and the ensuing dialog. Seeing more clearly comes at a price...
What's your point, That he retained ability into fairly old age or what? I read The Man who loved only numbers but curious if you have a different point.
Help fight continental drift.
It works best on scientific skills, but works on a few people with social talents as well. Focus, employed by the Emergents, allows them to combine the power and speed of a computer with the reasoning and intuitive skills of a tireless, dedicated human, although the human infected seems decidedly less "human" to the unfocused.
See here.
If aspiration is a virtue, achievement cannot be a vice.
My best friend takes Adderall for a legitimate case of ADD - it works wonders for its purposes.
My uncle was taking some 'cognitive enhancement' medication http://www.iherb.com/cogni.html, Cogniflex, recommended by his girlfriend. He stopped taking it because, well, he forgot to take it.
It would be interesting to see how these types of drugs would impact the elderly. One of the worst things about aging can be the loss of mental function. With all the medical advances people are living very long, but the brain still continues to age. Most 80 year olds are not nearly as mentally capable as your average 60 year old. If these drugs make an elderly person more self sufficient the impact is enormous.
As a young & healthy person I doubt these types of drugs would be recommended for me. Steroids have been available used in a medically safe way for years, but doctors don't prescribe them easily because of the side effects. I would bet that these types of drugs would be any different.
I am on a simialr program. I went to my doctor about a year ago, with a complaint that I was feeling thickheaded and mentally fuzzy all the time. He ran a few tests on me ang gave me a perscription for this great drug that enchances mental capacity, called Placebo. Now, I am WAAAAY smarter than everybody I meet. You should try it!
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
The nootropic movement is quite strong in America and I don't know if you've even been to a bulk supplement site, but it might be an eye opener for you:
www.beyond-a-century.com
1fast400
www.smi2le.biz
performancenutritionals.com
Hell, go to your local health food store or a GNC and take a look.
I had an English friend once who told me he was surprised by how much your average American knew about pharmaceuticals. I don't think we are particularly bashful about boosting (just about getting caught!).
Quack, quack.
...when I saw the phrase "task-obsessiveness".
:P
As a programmer in the middle of a death march (I'm not taking a break, it's compiling, I swear!), I don't think I've ever seen a better description of the process of development in my life
I mean seriously, what do programmers do? They get a requirement, and then they obsess over how it can be broken down into its component tasks until either they go mad, or the fucking thing works.
Okay, back at it...
"...you can steal my woman, but you ain't done nuthin' smart."
How will this affect the really competitive majors like medicine and law? Will I have to take these drugs now just to stay on top of the curve, once most of my classmates start taking them? Then, when I pass the bar exam and stop taking the pills, what happens to the chemically enhanced memories? Will I have to keep taking these the rest of my career and damn the side effects?
I got this one handled.
After 47 years of extremely personal and individual research on this I can most assuredly tell you that indeed, drugs do have a substantial effect on your brain.
After 47 years of extremely personal and individual research on this I can most assuredly tell you that indeed, drugs do have a substantial effect on your brain.
befuddled (noun) 1. Unable to create a pithy sig
LSD was invented at the University of Saskatchewan, in Saskatoon. It was initially intended for use as a theraputic drug for people suffering from mental illnesses. However, its use as a street narcotic and long lasting bad effects pretty much makes it a bad invention in my opinion.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
it was, but to be politically correct they now call it 'Viagra'
The same issue will be very much a reality with these drugs in the workplace.
As any engineer can tell you, there are always trade-offs in any design change. In this case, those trade-offs are "side effects".
It may be possible to optimize human beings for some particular task using drugs of various sorts - but what criterion will we use to determine what changes we will make?
I envisage a sort of corporate dystopia, in which people optomize themselves to maximize their utility to their employers, altering their own brain chemistry to make themselves into perfect employees - we can argue what traits such a human tool would have, but they're probably not very laudable.
On the other hand, people ought to be able to have any neurochemistry they want; under more generally egalitarian social arrangements, such drugs would simply enable people to do that, which would be good.
Maybe I've just been reading too much science fiction.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
That is a very interesting parallel... to me anyway, as I have read and re-read these books obsessively myself.
Its true though... in that case it was deliberate, but I bet we will do worse by accident...
Imagine, for instance... some medicines for your stomach/digestive tract can cause things like diarrhea.
Could you imaging what a bout "mental diarrhea" might be like?
If at all possible, and if there are no side-effects, would you take a drug that could make you smarter? I'm not saying that these examples could, but if there were something that passed clinic trails and was safe - viagra for your brain.
Would you take it?
Would you want to know if someone else is taking it?
There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
Bonds may have taken some intelligence enhancing drugs, but did not know at the time he took them that they were intelligence enhancing drugs.
These conditions are caused by problems in the way neurons work, and as a result they stop sending signals. For those that suffer from these, and many other mental related problems, such drugs could very well be the light at the end of the tunnel.
But every doctor I have ever seen will only deal with cheap and easy ailments. I had chronic problems for years that several doctors insisted were "low grade allergies" dispite clear evidence to the contrary. I could get no relief until I started reasearching the symptoms myself. I have found doctors only to be useful after you have already diagnosed yourself.
Have any of you been suprised by what a doctor has diagnosed you with???
I think he's referring to Erdos' use of amphetamines to improve his work. Search for it in the Wikipedia article.
the drug Modafinil, which seems to sharpen attention and mental agility
Cool, faster task-switching, now I'll *really* be able to multi-task!
Rimmer: Lister, what's this? Learning drugs? They're illegal matey!
I'm afraid you're in very serious, grave, deep trouble, Lister. Where did you get them? I want names. I want places. I want dates. Lister: Arnold Rimmer. His locker. This morning.
I missed that shift (due to lack of cognitive drug enhancement)
The difference? They didn't OPENLY advertise coke on tv (ad nauseum).
Aliens must think Americans are the most impotent people on Earth.
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
I sent off a quip that I found interesting and I had enough time to make that specific comment. I assumed that someone who had at least read the byline here on /. would get the gist of my comment. Obviously out of the 500,000+ readers here I overlooked the possiblility that you might not get it and I would touch on some preXmas cynical pique you were currently experiencing. My most sincere apologies.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
There have been a lot of commercials for the over-the-counter Focus Factor. Anyone here try it? Is it worth anything?
Anyone who reads Slashdot regularly has no need to imagine it....
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
LSD may have been used at the Univeristy of Saskatchewan, but it certainly wasn't invented there.
LSD was invented by Albert Hoffman while he was working at Sandoz laboratories in Switzerland. It's quite an interesting story.
Here is the link to Wikipedia for people that might be interested.
Help fight continental drift.
This is true for educational and social achievement, but raw IQ appears remarkably stable. See this Minnesota twin study for an example. I was honestly rather surprised when I started looking at studies like these by just how much of a role genetics plays in IQ.
My favorite is the prescription drug commercial for an allergy medication... "Side affects may include sore throat, itchy nose, coughing, and sneezing." wtf? aren't these allergies?
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
I hope these work! I can stop spending all my money on cocaine! Whee!!
"hey, could you pass me a paper towel? er.. I mean... DEPLOY ABSORBTION PANEL!"
Exploiting cognitive-enhancing drugs' task-obsessiveness is the main theme of Vernor Vinge's Hugo-Award winner, A Deepness in the Sky. This would not be a good prediction to come true.
I would like to make a few points myself, as an avid nootropic ("smart-drug") user. Nootropic: a word coined by Dr. Giurgea to describe a new class of drugs that act as cognitive enchancers with no side effects or toxicity, from Greek words noos, meaning mind and tropein meaning toward. The December 6th issue of newsweek had in huge font on the cover "Memory Drugs", and talked of ampakines, but also called the older nootropics "shots in the dark". If they are shots in the dark, I highly recommend shooting in the dark. A lot of pharmy companies would rather come up with more patentable/profitable drugs and chemicals.
There are a lot of drugs now adays that are considered smart drugs. Some are the 'racetams (piracetam, aniracetam, pramiracetam, oxiracetam). I have taken piracetam and aniracetam to my personal benefit, as I do suffer from attention, concentration, and general mental-clarity problems. Piracetam is super non-toxic and I highly recommend trying it (Do your research, google it!). It is thought to increase oxygen in the brain and act as a neuroprotectant, especially in environments with decreased oxygen.
There are also amino acids that are considered smart drugs, like l-theanine which produces a calm-concentrated mood, the amino is found in green tea, and is thought to be why green tea hardly gives the jitters. Try it for yourself by taking l-theanine with caffiene (coffee as a most likely source). So all of the posters who say "Hey, coffee/caffiene is all I need!", why not try supplementing with a natural amino acid. Vinpocetine is also a very usefull suppliment, it increases the blood flow to the brain, and is derived from the periwinkle plant. DMAE is also considered a smart-drug (dimethyl-amino-ethanol). DMAE is a precursor to acetyl-choline, one of the most used neurotransmitters. There are a whole lot more out there, so I highly recommend checking it out. Re-quoting a quote from http://smi2le.biz ( who also happens to be a cheap supplier of such suppliments [no affliction] )
"In 2004 Out-Caste agents started circulating the rumor that Intelligence was the most important factor in human life.
They said: "What else do you value? Love? Virtue? Money? Power? Freedom? Truth? All of these can be enhanced by increasing intelligence. A failure to increase intelligence can only diminish our ability to obtain and enjoy those goods.""
Your Momma's so fat she makes emacs look like nano!
Your comment was irrelevant and unintresting to the subject. The girl in Xenocide suffered from a birth defect introduced by the goverment to control her actions. To punish her like a guinea pig when she tought thoughts not "suitable", "dirty" or "unclean". Hence the following of woodlines, obsessive washing of hands etc. Now, that has absolutely nothing todo with this topic.
I dont see how a birthdefect in a science-fiction book is relevant to a soo very real drug that can alter your state of mind, giving a longterm memory boost - the holy grail of all learning.
Feel free to flame all you want, bicker about christmas piques or whatever you wish.
You are doubting the power of the drug!
You will trace all the lines on your bedroom!
What about good old Coffee?
I don't have to worry about making myself stupid from smoking gonj all day. A few pills and I'll be able to remain stoned while working on that phd.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
You delivered the flame. This is a correction.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
I would be very interested in using any safe mind-enhancing drug. However, the brain is not a computer and life is not a pre-mediated routine.
If people start using memory and attention enhancing drugs to ground themselves more in reality and their current world view/direction, I think it's important that people also start using psychedelics and other mentally-opening/freeing drugs to make sure they don't get bogged down in the now-now-now.
Basically psychedelics allow you an escape from grounding forces (like attention, or memory) to go and question important, overarching meta-questions -- where am I going? what does the world mean and what's my place in it? who are my friends and how do I feel about them? how do I feel about the future? etc. These would be a good counter-balance to the mind-enhacing drugs, which help you achieve goals formed from reflection upon your insight, more efficiently.
I'm not really advocating psychedelic drug use for everyone in general (well, not in this post at least, heh). But as "regular", not cognitively-enhanced people we supposedly have some sort of balance of 'free-thought' with which we question and reflect on Big, Important Matters and 'attentive/constrained thought' with which we make short-term goals happen. The two are a feedback process. If we're shifting the balance by increasing the duraction of our 'attentive/constrained thought', we need to have a way of increasing the intensity of our 'free-thought' so that we don't loose sight of the big picture.
whether this is it or not, one day humanity will greatly augment it's own intelligence.
:)
I mean, far beyond the ways we've already managed to do.
Chemicals are all that intelligence is. You are nothing but chemicals.
well, the same way a painting is nothing but paint, of course.
But really the big differences between human brains and the other smart creatures of earth is our chemical makeup.
nuerochemicals are some of the most complicated naturally occuring chemical structures known - right alongside scents (hydrocarbon chains I think - that's what Fry said anyway).
Of course, the neurochemicals of the human brian aren't actually more complex than those of any other creature. But they are different.
and my my if the outcome of their interactions in the environment of the brain isn't something.
I mean, how interesting that something can analyze itself. That these chemicals mix together to figure out how to make themselves mix together better
is this starting to sound exponential to anyone else?
let's see, we use machines to build better machines,we use computers to design faster and better computers and now we use our brain chemicals (as thought) to find out how to get better chemical reactions in our brain.
We've got something interesting going on now don't we?
There are no measureable neurotransmitter imbalances. Not unless you're prepared to have your brain sliced very thinly.
;)
No, this doesn't make the whole of psychopharmacology a crock. You also have to prove that neurochemistry isn't dependent on state of mind and that medications work better than placebo -- both unproven
http://www.bawbag.com/drugs/lsd.php
There are several sites that say repeat "trips" can occur years later, or the drug can even trigger forms of mental illness. Personally I wouldn't consider using it, any more than I'd consider smoking a cigarette.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
...caine??
http://www.commaecho.com
I see. I confused hearing of it's first use in clinical studies, with it's invention.
http://www.nfb.ca/hofmann/
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
death
Sharpens you up for a bit o' the old ultra-violence.
Remember the incident a few years back at the Winter Games in Nagano with the US snowboarder getting in trouble for the pot? He said he smoked grass before he rode because it helped him relax and focus. Now, up till that point, marijuana had not officially been on the Olympic Commitee's list of banned substances, but that all changed when their research concluded that yes indeed, getting stoned may increase athletic performance. So now, if you're an Olympic athlete, marijuana is verboten.
I would add my own personal anecdotes in support of their findings, but I seem to have forgotten them for some reason...
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
This is a classic urban legend:
A college student is obsessing about his final exams. In the week before his big exam, he starts staying up all night to cram, pounding down pots of coffee. Finally, he starts taking amphetamines to stay wired. He has a marathon 48-hour study session right before his big final, and finally heads down to take the big test.
He's in the zone. He knows every answer and remembers every last detail. He flies through his exam, writing voluminous essays, and heads back to his room to crash.
A few hours later, he is awoken from deep sleep by his professor calling. "There's a problem with your exam," his professor tells him. "Can you come by my office?"
The student is freaking out, and runs right down there. He's greeted by his professor, who's giving him an odd look.
"What's wrong with my exam, professor? Didn't I write enough on the essays?"
The professor gives him another long look. "Young man, you wrote the entire essay in tiny letters on one line."
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
I can't say I've experienced any, but I might not have been a long term enough user to have experienced any.
I took it recreationally in college, 20 years ago. Freshman year it was a 4-5 times a month drug, sophomore maybe 1-2 times a month, with only maybe a dozen doses the rest of my college years.
At my peak in my freshman year, I was taking 2-3 hits of blotter (small bits of paper soaked in LSD about 1/8 the size of a stamp) maybe twice a week. The more we took the greater the dose required to really get more than a stimulant-type effect from it.
I knew a couple of habitual users who took half or quarter hits for the stimulation effect only before a night of heavy drinking. LSD makes you feel immune to liquor's psychological effects. I used to not drink as a rule when taking LSD, although once I did go to a party where the booze was free and drank so much that I could barely walk, despite not feeling drunk at all.
The effect was generally intense halucinations for about 2-3 hours and tapering off after that depending on dose, unbelievable physical energy (we often walked 10 miles in a night, in any weather), and an intense feeling of really "getting it" and achieving intense understanding which was forgotten once it wore off. A portable dictation machine affirmed the fact that we didn't actually achieve anything beyond the feeling of getting it -- insights were gibberish.
The downside was "coming down". It'd be 4 in the morning and we'd start to feel physically tired, a little bored, and mainly just wishing it was over. But sleep was hard to come by -- usually you'd doze for 4-5 hours around 5-6 AM and the next day was just shot. I think something like Xanax, Ativan or Valium would have helped. Booze and/or pot really didn't.
Eventually I grew tired of the 'coming down' part and killing the next day completely. Finding people suitable to take it with was an issue, too. Initiating someone to LSD was a risky issue, as some people tended to get a little overwhelmed by the experience. It's also a pretty serious drug to get caught with -- two people I knew casually got caught with 50 some doses and ended up doing felony jail time. And then there's the whole issue of buying it, dosage, and so on.
To this day, I have yet to experience a "flashback" or any of the other spooky tales associated with it. I don't have any real problems with focusing or anything else, and a recent MMPI test indicated that other than scoring high on the cynacism index, I don't have any obvious personality problems.
I wouldn't take it again, though. I think it was enlightening to some extent as a college student, but I think now it would just be stress inducing.
Here is a site that has been looking at this issue, among others in similar field for some years now. Among others, freedom of thought and pharmacotherapy (drugs used in therapy that "disable" the brains ability to get high off illicit drugs) are in discussion. http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/
There's never been a fatal overdose on LSD. I started using recreational drugs after being bombarded this kind of innaccurate crap about pot and LSD, and decided I needed to find out for myself. Unfortunately there are really dangerous side effects of LSD and other recreational drugs- but only honest, accurate information will be helpful to anyone.
Even after MANY years of testing, a lot of the drugs that fall under the heading Nootropics have few to no side effects even when taken at massive doses. Another drug to look into after Piracetam is Vasopressin. There are several others as well. Very interesting reading.
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
Maybe you are looking at it the wrong way; IQ is only an inaccurate measure of intelligence, however it's a very accurate measure of success.
So look at this way, the parents are more successful, because of their intelligence, and the corresponding indicator of that intelligence would be the IQ.
I sig, therefore I was.
I've been alot more insightful since I started smoking weed, even when I'm not high.
Your blog says otherwise...
I am God!
I see it perfectly clearly. Consider the laws of physics. Everything in the universe holds to them. I certainly do. BUT! What defines the laws of physics? It is clearly what I do that defines them. It is what everything does but me included. So then I am God! So is everyone else of course but really its ME!
That is real insight for me. I decree that we shall all smoke weed. Then everyone can be as insightful as this fine gentleman.
Some doctors (in Quebec, anyway) are known to sometimes get a prescription for Ritalin (I'm not sure how they manage to do it subtly enough, since Ritalin is in the same drug class as Cocaine, here) when they have to drive a long time: it really does keep you extremely focused when you don't suffer for ADD. I've known a few guys who'd sell their pills, and others who'd *SNIFF* powdered ritalin when they had to cram. I'm not sure it's more effective that way, but, even taken normally, it's probably much better at putting you in the zone than amphets. It also leads to an habituation and psychological addiction (your mind doesn't feel as clear, probably because it isn't :). Side note: Ritalin really is a hard drug. I'd investigate every reasonable alternative before giving in to the pressure and drugging my child.
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
Report yourself to a podmaster's office for proper re-focusing.
...although many neuroscientists think that they may lead to 'mental clutter' or task-obsessiveness
Oh, you mean creativity?
Caffeine and drugs like Ritalin are known amongst people who study these things as "rate dependent drugs." It means what it sounds like. Which is to say, I'm backing you up on this, and so is science.
It's not just a phenomenon of "AD/HD brains," either. Most people are rate-dependent on caffeine, at certain times of the day, or when certain amounts are consumed.
Have a good one.
C
The World Bridge Federation already tests for drugs and some has already lost a medal for refusing the test.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
"Eat these, they're 'Smart Pills'."
"Ewwww! These taste like rabbit turds!"
"See? You're smarter already!"
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
The version I saw:
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
The shirt acquires a stain, the stain becomes a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
You mean if I'd been "coached", I could of raised my score from 1585 to 1600!? Damn! While thoughtful, this idea is flawed in many respects. First, there is is no doubt that well off families have more resources and thus have advantages. But there are many ways for less well off families to obtain the equivalent advantages. I would say that at least in America the only truly disadvantaged families are the very poor. Middleclass families all have sufficient means to have rich environments for children to learn. Secondly, just because a family is well off doesn't mean they will actually produce better environments for raising children with better intellect. Thirdly, anyone interested in getting "coached" in SAT can do so very simply, there are books and many schools also prepare students for SATs. In fact, many schools with historically poor SAT scores spend a great deal of time teaching exactly the information tested on SATs in hopes of getting better school marks. This of course produces students who are great at taking tests, but very poor at thinking independently. Unfortunately, SATs are one of the traditionally WASP based intelligence tests, and hence are written from a certain social perspective, and there is a limit to how well students from othe sub-cultures can reasonably expect to do on them. Were the SAT to be written by a group of professors who grew up in let's say Watt's Park, there would almost certainly be a very different distribution of scores nationwide. The problem with intelligence tests is they are all skewed to a particular perspective. Just because someone scores 1170 on an SAT doesn't necessarily mean that a person who scored a 1030 is not as smart. IQ tests, are only useful for judging people from a common societal background. Deaf people routinely fail the English section on SATs and graduation tests. Not because they are dumb but because they are not exposed to the idiomatic speech on a regular basis, and also they use a very reduced dictionary. There is no sign for gorgeous; the sign for beautiful is used instead. Well, I could continue with other flaws in the above post, but I need to go eat my brain building popcorn and get some brain rejuvenating sleep.
Just thought I'd point out that nicotine has been found to have beneficial effects on memory and concentration. Unfortunately, it has the side-effects of being horribly addictive and killing pretty much everyone who uses it.
The OCD meme here reminds me of Laney in William Gibson's novels. He is so set upon one thing he completely ignores his chronic illness and ends up dying for his 'cause' - watching the nodal formation come to a head and making sure it happens. It can be argued that this is natural for many people throughout history, some of us are just wired differently. I couldn't imagine taking chemicals to get to this state however.
Just wanted to say that your post was great apart from the above question which is somewhat unfortunate.
If you expect to start feeling your brain age, what are the likely consequences of such an expectation?
feel brain age -> believe getting old -> start acting old -> start bad posture -> start bad health
Here's another:
feel brain age -> notice normal brain underperformance -> expect brain to underperform -> brain underperforms
Technically speaking, the question is both an embedded hypnotic command and a presuppositional pattern.
...and it does work similar to speed.
The problem is that yes, it did sharpen my concentration and make me awake all night(I worked a grave shift in a NOC) but it also made me extremely frustrated, short on patience and irritable. I broke three mice and four keyboards before I stopped taking the stuff.
The other side of it though is that the problem of undermedication is a probably bigger problem than it's opposite.
The number of people who have a serious and perfectly treatable condition, such as high blood pressure, is astounding. One of the few ways to reach these not too initiative strong people is through TV commercials.
So I suspect these ads, distasteful as they may be, actually save quite a lot of lives.
Alright, try to keep up on this logical march. Keep in mind, some of this is speculation, but all have a basis in fact.
/would love to volunteer for a clinical trial investigating the above scenario.
//The Matrix has you.
1) Muscles are controlled by neurons.
2) At any given time, only a fraction of muscle fibers are available in a given muscle. This is due to some neurons having high thresholds from never being used or used infrequently. The ratio of total fibers/useable fibers is called "neuromuscular efficiency", and the mechanism by which thresholds are lowered is called the "Hebbian Mechanism". (for this discussion, I am speaking mainly of fast-twitch fibers).
3) It's possible to train and open up new neurons through heavy strength training, such as Powerlifting/Olympic Weightlifting (note: not Bodybuilding).
4) Strength athletes (high jumpers, sprinters, weightlifters, powerlifters) in general have a higher degree of NM efficiency than untrained individuals (somewhere along the lines of 30-50% as opposed to 5%-10%). Case in point- Judd Biasotto, former powerlifter who, at a bodyweight of 132, bench pressed over 300 lbs. and squatted over 600 lbs. In some extreme life or death cases, effciency can be increased dramatically, by either drugs(PCP), adrenaline(mothers lifting cars on their sides to save their children trapped underneath), or mental disease. Basically, you can lift a car, your brain either
a) doesn't know or
b) won't let you.
5) Increasing NM efficiency involves lowering present neural thresholds, making an activity "easier" in terms of neural drive, and allowing new neurons/muscle fibers to be recruited.
6) Some of the drugs mentioned in the article strengthen neural connections.
7) If these drugs affect motor neurons in the body as well, the thresholds for these neurons would be greatly lowered, and neuromuscular efficiency would increase dramatically, maybe past reachable norms. (>50%) (hell, if they affect motor neurons as well as neurons in the brain, any technical skill could be used as an example).
8) Net result: dramatic increases in strength in a relatively short amount of time, without a significant increase in bodyweight. The ability to exert more force would come from using nearly all the available fibers in an existing muscle.
9) ???
10) Profit!
I, for one, welcome our Volvo lifting overlords.
That's right. All your base.
Actually I wrote that one not-high.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
What's the test for an ADHD brain and what's the test to show whether it's better regulated?
I am fed up of seeing such make-believe articles only to encourage drug abuse.
.. since when pharmaceutical companies care about telling the truth? ...
If you think you can solve everything by fad chemicals - ha think again
(and am sorry if you've lost that ability).
I find it shameful Cephalon allowing (if not secretely promoting)
the spread of such myths concerning its main drug Provigil.
I take Provigil(Modafinil), I hate it, I fight against it - but I have to at times.
The side effects: nausea, headaches, being jittery and getting nightmares.
Hardly a feeling of enlightenment:
If anything your brain feels alert but in a "silent" state (unwilling to think much) -
receptive but barely pro-active barely eager to take on intellectual challenges.
Even a can of RedBull with a shot a vodka achieves better results.
Wanna get more intelligent? Fucking read, fucking study, Learn a foreign language, adopt a healthy lifestyle, exercise, travel the world, experience life, mix with people, push your mind to the limit but you don't need these short-circuiting drugs that will only damage your nervous system in the long run.
Still
People prefer easy answers, readily buying into their propaganda
Yes you can. If the kid does badly on tests but has the raw ability, you can coach them to get them up to higher scores.
150 points is a normal jump. 300 is not unusual.
Note that 200 points is a standard deviation, so this puts you in a new scholarship bracket.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
I was referring to the following bit from the Wikipedia article. I haven't read The Man Who Loved Only Numbers, but I have read My Brain is Open, and his drug use was mentioned there.
Wouldn't you know it. Something that's funnier than hell (all my friends have laughed their asses off at it) gets modded "troll" by of course a troll for a moderator. Go figure.
None of the questions on the SAT require any kind of prior knowledge except for logical reasoning and vocabulary. Even the reading comprehension questions are just that: questions to see if you comprehend what you read, not questions to see if you can relate that to some other knowledge. As for vocabulary, well, this is the United States of America, and to function in society you need to understand English. Not Spanish (except maybe in California and a few other places), and not ebonics. English. It could only be called cultural discrimination if someone prohibited you from reading Moby Dick (etc.).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I think we can agree that there's a correlation, but I don't think there's enough evidence to prove causation (in either direction).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Correct. So we can say that some people who took ritalin improved their behaviour. Not that ritalin regulated their brain or that it's rate dependent or even that it improved their behaviour.
Maybe the mere taking improved their behaviour? Noooo, surely the placebo effect only applies to the other 40+% of the ritalin takers?
Why does Prozac have the same behavioural effect, even though it has a completely different effect on the brain?
Has the double blind ever been tested in a study showing ritalin works better than placebo?
Something to think about...
Rimmer: What's this? Learning drugs? They're illegal, matey! Where did you get them? I'm afraid you're in very serious, grave, deep trouble, Lister. Where did you get them? I want names, I want places, I want dates. Lister: Arnold Rimmer, his locker, this morning.
This sig is a true statement, but I cannot prove it.
Meditation is a risk-free brain enhancer.
:-)
I would recommend practicing Samadhi meditation, the deepest meditative state of Yoga. It is taught by the India-based SSY. It is a state of "no-mind": supressing/dis-identifying with thoughts. Benefits set in with regular practice over several months. It's an easy practice - basically passive, allowing thoughts to blow away un-attended. You do it 3 times a day for 15 minutes and become *extremely* relaxed.
Benefits include improved memory, near-perfect concentration, no inner conflict (!) and increased oratory skills. Health-wise it cures one from the oh-so-popular state of chronic excess of mental activity, which manifests as nervousness/anxiety, over-talkativeness, sleep problems due to inability to "let-go" of thoughts (known as "subjective insomnia"), etc. It is also good for psychosomatic related disorders, including asthma, joint pain (stress-related) and perhaps even diabetes (?).
For a firsthand description of the experience read the intruiging "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle.
Search terms: Samadhi consciousness, unitary consciousness, unified consciousness, no-mind.
enjoy
It seems odd to me that this kind of drugs are promoted so uncritically - considering that throughout history all the 'fatastic enhancement' drugs have gone the same way: cocaine, heroin, ...
Perhaps it is valid to search for this kind of drugs - but as time passes it becomes more and more blatantly obvious that the current laws about recreational drugs (which is all these new ones are going to be in the end) are woefully inadequate; and written by wild-eyed paranoics too.
Think about it: We all know that recreational drugs are more or less harmful in several ways. We all know that each year there are people who go down and even die because of them. We also know from our experience as a society with alcohol, that it is possible for most to avoid these sad effects, even though there are alcoholics who die every year.
So wouldn't it be better to decriminalise drugs in some sensible way? In the current situation a large part of the devastation caused by drug use is caused not by the drug, but by the fact that it is a crime to buy or use it. In my opinion it would make sense in so many ways if these things did not have to be bought from unscrupulous dealers and used in dangerous environments.
Firstly, however damaging the pure drug is, it becomes much worse when it is mixed with whichever rat-poison the dealer happens to have lying around. The health costs would be smaller if drug users had access to clean drugs and relatively safe conditions in which to use them, and many drug users would be able to pursue gainful employment rather than having to resort to crime, if they didn't have to raise hundreds of dollars each day.
Secondly, the entire class of 'drugs related crime' would not exist or be greatly reduced, thus freeing up police and jails.
Now I can't see anything wrong with these arguments - please point it out to me if there is anything obvious I have missed.
While there are problems with your overall argument, I have to agree that diet can have a drastic effect on intelligence.
Example: lots of people feed infants and todlers low-fat diets. That's STUPID. Fat is required for brain development. If you feed a low-fat diet to a young child, it will have an effect on their brain development.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
I can't find the article right now, but I remember reading something about a study of hallucinogens taken in low doses. The subjects reported a mild euphoria that was associated with greater productivity and creativity at work. The side effects were minimal.
-zTolerance does not tolerate intolerance, or hypocrisy.
They're watering down crystal meth now....what, full strength had some side effects?
I still have my Ph.D.; I still have a part time job in my field; I don't suffer from "flashbacks", reduced mental capacity, or addiction. In fact I'm really enjoying my early semi-retirement.
Come to think of it, I've never have met anyone who has suffered any of the problems that LSD has been accused of causing. That's not to say they've never happened, just to say that's it's typical for the FDA to A: Not like recreational drugs and B: not to like a drug that no corporation is making money on.
Partial Discloser: I work for one the "Big Pharma" companies
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Didn't you say that you were more insightful even when you were not-high?
Maybe you're just growing up?
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
Bush junior was stuffed full of these things on the second and third debates. I believe one of the side effects listed is blinking like a strobe light.
Whenever Mrs. Fitch breaks wind, we beat the dog.
...but I don't want to devote the time, effort and most importantly the discipline required to bring order to a mind in chaos.
There's something to be said for learning how to learn and how to think.
On the other hand, there could easily be reasons why people are getting dumber and dumber. Could it be all the crap, enhancements and preservatives in most all of our food now?
I know this woman who boasts of "Adult ADHD" and thinks she needs an assload of meds to function properly. I seriously suspect she needs to stop smoking, drinking alcohol and too many caffeine drinks, too much junk food and clean her body out before she thinks she should be taking a bunch of pills. I don't have any data to back my thoughts up, but I get a really strong feeling that people at large just need to clear the crap from their bodies instead of medicating... oh yeah, and exercise a bit. Christ! Stop circling the parking lot at the malls for two hours and just want the extra 30 yards!!!
Look up logorrhea (yes it's a real word).
Ritalin is a Class A drug in the UK (alongside cocaine, esctasy, and heroin), and in its pharmacology it is an amphetamine.
There's plenty of anecdotal stories of parents of ADHD kids using their kids' pills to help them concentrate on exams and the like. Crushed and snorted is more effective than swallowing the pill because it gets into the blood system quicker and in a more-concentrated dose.
However, the same people who tell me about this abuse of the drug have studies coming out of their ears saying that, in the UK, medicating an adolescent with ADHD earlier rather than later has a hugely benficial effect upon the outcome of the treatment process. This may be a combination of socio-economic and familial factors as much as helping the child fit in with the academic goals set in school and consequent fitting-in in society.
I'm intrigued by the idea of people taking nth generation smart drugs while working on resarching n + 1th generation smart drugs ad nauseum. This could quickly accelerate out of control. Maybe I'm being a bit too dramatic though.
A friend of mine has a brother who had a bad case of ADD, and he went on some kind of special ADD diet that is supposed to remove all kinds of substances, both naturally occuring and artificial (like preservatives). It was very successfull. He doesn't need to take ritalin.
It's not all that, let me tell you. I've not noticed any "sharpening" of my mental acuity, quite the opposite. I feel more distracted and less able to focus on it. Now, give me some good old tried and true stimulants, which mostly kick the brain into super-learning mode, and then we'll talk. Yep, my drug of choice is still Adderall (amphetamine salts).
For example, aspirin can cause an upset stomach in some people -- but it's also been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease. If I were in a high-risk group, I know I'd rather have a grumbling stomach than a malfunctioning heart.
Bad example. Aspirin and other NSAIDs can cause fatal stomach bleeding in some people - I know because I've been there: intensive care, blood transfusion, all because of a prescription of naproxen (= Aleve over-the-counter) for a torn ligament. This is not all that rare: several thousand people die from it each year in the U.S. alone. But NSAIDs are among the biggest money-makers for the big pharmas, so it's all nicely swept under the rug.
"Upset stomach", my ass - that's like saying a bullet might give you abdominal pain. Technically true, but a bit of an understatement.
Be faithful to your obsessions. Identify them and be faithful to them, let them guide you like a sleepwalker. JG Ballard
I've heard the claim that better pre-natal nutrition makes a huge difference in the physical condition of a society's people.
The privilaged generally eat better than the unprivilaged. They generally have less exposure to environmental toxins. They generally have a more education-centric environment growing up.
That is partially true, but the situation is more complex than that. Rich people eat more seafood and tend to end up with unusually elevated levels toxins like mercury and dioxin and end up with correspondingly higher levels of risk for related complications. Rates of breast cancer are dramatically correlated with wealth, the current specific suspect being increased levels of saturated fat in the diets of the wealthy.
The issues with COX-2 inhibitors are also interesting in that the drugs were created in response to observations of tea and other dietary components having a COX-2 inhibition effect combined with reduction of inflammation. The isolated drugs have not behaved exactly as the foods from which they are derived. The same is true of beta carotine which is healthy to eat in food, but appears to cause distruption when isolated and taken orally. Other vitamins also appear to cause problems if taken directly in pure form.
All this leads me to remember that some of my best proofs when studying math in school came from early morning times when I was despirate and tired and poorly fed and just had to find a way. Somehow it seems that for me at least raw motivation is far more important than mental state.
Drugs of the future...making better employees
Many Parkinsons-like tremors (dyskensias) are caused by certain chemicals like insecticides and PCP. Others are side-effects of SSRIs such as Prozac. Watch out, you are playing with "Mother Nature" here. Many such side-effects arent detected in clinical trials with only thousands of participants, but until millions use it, as with recent pain drugs.
Irronically, there has been clinically measured anti-correlation between caffine, nicotine and Parkinsons. Its not clear whether these slow down progression, or whether people who have a Parkinsons-resistant brain are attracted to these stimulants.
Basic neurochemistry (me being a dumb med student): NMDA and AMPA -receptors of glutamate are what makes the brain tick. Mice with more receptors learn faster. Two much receptors (or receptor activity) leads to glutamate excitotoxicity (causing dead neurons).
To balance the exciting glutamate, there are also inhibitory GABA-receptors of various types. Two much GABAergic inhibition causes sleepiness and poor mental performance (benzodiazepines (valium) and alcohol do, among other things, enchance GABAergic inhibition). Too little leads to epileptic fits.
So I would see epileptic fits and excitotoxicity as possible side-effects, not just a wandering mind...
A clean system and a good diet free of artificials is the first step to a clear mind. Many know this, but few act on it. Seems weird that this obvious step is so rarely observed or taken.
-FL
No, didn't RTFA, but I did read "Camp Concentration" which really makes one think about the eventual consequences of such endevours.
The moral of the story is simple.
G-d locked the human brain at a specific speed to prevent over clocking. Apparently our brains are already operating at the maximum safe speed, and it's up to the user to optimize usage of the available processing cycles.
Over clocking methods shorten the usable lifespan of the entire device, impacting wetware well outside the neural system itself.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
because what happened for you is rare so it isnt going to change anyone else taking the drug. Just because 1 person in a million,or even one in 100,000, had a problem isnt going to stop most people from taking a drug epically if they are taking it for an extra edge.
I have been waiting for Provigil (modafinil) to be abused for YEARS. It keeps you awake,for days at a time if you want, with what appears to be minimal side effects. Heaven help us if this every goes over the counter.
What do you say to the man that has nothing? Cast it away!!
... because if it isn't, it looks like Vinge-style Focus is possible, and might be really ugly.
Who do you think would try it first, North Korea or China? Scary,,,
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
You might want to consider factors other than the moderation on your slashdot comments when you determine how insightful you are.
I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.
-RenderHead
... is that you have ten years of baby-boomer guinea pigs ahead of you.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
The Nazi regime was the first goverment to start propagandizing against smoking. Interesting, that. .
-FL
I do not recall the drug use being mentioned in Man who lowed only numbers but it is a few years since I read it.
Help fight continental drift.
Then you'll be able to cite just one of those studies very easily.
I'll bet you can't.
BTW, I'm specifically looking for one where the double blind was tested by eg asking the patients to guess
whether they were on placebo or drug, where the blind was intact and hence the ritalin really did outperform the placebo.
By "better-regulated", I was saying that the AD/HD users were able to think clearer, as evidenced by various cognitive tests and life experience by many people who went on the drugs. We are our brains.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
All of which is very worthwhile..
However, it's a long way from proving the Ritalin had anything to do with it.
And since almost everyone here will have some ADHD symptoms, I wanted to point out that this wasn't a scientific point of view and warn against a medication & support group lifestyle.
Our brain is a sophisticated device... even if we're still learning the controls.
The same issue will be very much a reality with these drugs in the workplace.
Do you seriously think that Corporate America would test employees to see if they are using 'brain-drugs'? Ever wonder why Major League Baseball looks the other way so often on steriod use? Ever wonder why the NFL and NBA penalties for drug use are so (relatively) lenient? Performance enhancing drug use by professional athletes is good for business. The athletes are stronger, faster, perform better. All of this results in more exciting games and higher revenue. The biggest area(s) where you see drug testing is amateur athletics (olympics, NCAA, etc...), where no one (theoretically) is making any money on the athletes and the games are 'pure'. Professional sports organizations, at least in the US, ignore the problem until the press or government get involved.
How can you possibly think the same thing won't happen in the corporate/scientific world. I'm sure many, many companies would endorse any chemicals that would significantly enhance cognitive abilities privately, if not publicly, at least until the side effects proved severly damaging.
Find coupons in Greeley
I also have reservations whether putting your body through too much work is healthy. Excercise is healthy sure, and so are professional sports, but olympic athletes (those not involved in the more professional events) destroy themselves routinely trying to get first place, they have no concern over there own safety they just want to win. Let them.
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
HPPD - Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder. It's a real disorder.
www.hppdonline.com
Some people who take LSD, never come down all the way, some people aren't affected this way. Nobody knows for sure why this occurs, although there are theories out there...
-Myke
myke@compassionatecoalition.org
http://www.compassionatecoalition.org
And lo, the two shall be forever locked in conflict. The enslaved brain rebels by obeying the liver's tyrannical dictates to the letter: by consuming precisely that which causes the liver the most pain.
I must drink beer. Beer is the liverkiller.
"All right brain, I don't like you, and you don't like me. But let's just do this, and I can get back to killing you with beer!"
"Deal!"
You can't take the sky from me...
All these ads include a "talk to your doctor about " part. Since they are prescription medicines, there is no other way for people to actually buy the product.
The effect was generally intense halucinations for about 2-3 hours and tapering off after that depending on dose, unbelievable physical energy (we often walked 10 miles in a night, in any weather), and an intense feeling of really "getting it" and achieving intense understanding which was forgotten once it wore off. A portable dictation machine affirmed the fact that we didn't actually achieve anything beyond the feeling of getting it -- insights were gibberish.
Hmm, this the above how a slashdoter describes "far out man"?
You're absolutely right. I hope no one would take my mention of my disorder and how much certain medication (approved by the FDA for treating it) helped me as scientific proof for treating other people's disorders. If anyone suspects they or their children have AD/HD, they should see their doctors and ask them about the body of scientific evidence behind the disorder and recommended treatments. The same goes for clinical depression, anxiety disorder, aspergers syndrome and chronic migraines. Thank you for the advisory.
Also, I am not a lawyer, and nothing in my posts reflect the views of my employer. Use any information you recieve from my post at your own risk. This poster takes no responsibility for any damage, injury or theft that occurs or is caused by looking at this text. Any resemblance to other posts, living or dead is unintentional and purely coincidental. If rash, irritation, redness or swelling occur, discontinue reading. Do not read while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Batteries not included. May contain nuts.
Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Well, the famous singularity effect is produced by the ability of progress to fuel even greater progress. I wonder, If drug designers start taking mind-enhancing drugs, will this mean even more succesful mind-enhancing drugs (and so on...)? Funny thought.
Anyway, I suppose that with the life expectancy continuously increasing and many old people suffering from dementia this could mean a few more useful years. I can see a market for that, besides crazy, burn-out programming and studying.
P.
For example, aspirin can cause an upset stomach in some people -- but it's also been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease. If I were in a high-risk group, I know I'd rather have a grumbling stomach than a malfunctioning heart.
The studies showing the protective effect were done with buffered aspirin to protect the participants' stomachs. The buffers are typically magnesium salts.
There are claims that further studies using plain aspirin without the magnesium showed no protective effects and were not published. The implication is a simply magnesium supplement, or your daily vitamin is just as effective without the side-effects.
Does anybody here know of some scientific study of this?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
In a real gym, you put weights to slow you down to grow your muscles, so why not do the same with your brain. ie.
Force your brain to slow down or give it 'weights' and then 'excercise' some mental tests, so perhaps try programming while under lsd or pot. Or try anything that requires a sharp mind, but do it while bent, that way you train your mind to perform better under 'difficult' conditions, so when your normal, you'll be flying with ease.
If you dont like drugs, then do the mentally challanging stuff after not sleeping for 24hrs.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
the point is numbers this small DONT MATTER. Not to someone who is trying to get an edge. Not to someone who doesnt care what the numbers are. All that will matter is that he know 200 people who have used the drugs and never had any side effects.
"1 in 50,000? thats going to stop me? HA! It won't happen to me."
What do you say to the man that has nothing? Cast it away!!
Even if I may be against using these drugs personally, will I be competing against others that do use them? Will those that don't use them, either at a personal or corporate level, someday be at a disadvantage against those that do?
Long-haul truckers and Air Force pilots have long popped amphetamines to ward off drowsiness. Generations of college students have swallowed over-the-counter caffeine tablets to get through all-nighters. But such stimulants provide only a temporary edge, and their effect is broad and blunt -- they boost the brain by juicing the entire nervous system.
Its the law... how long till it gets demonized by FUD and becomes illegal, like MDMA, LSD and cannabis?
WE DON'T NEED NO BLOG CONTROL.
I'm mildly ADD, and I've been taking Dexamphetamine for several years now. It was no secret that dex boosts the mental agility of anyone who takes it, rather than correcting the specific problems manifest as ADD. I was told that there were actually cases of kids with ADD selling part of their prescribed medication to other kids, who want it to help them study better.
New trials my arse. This is something I was told about years ago.
While I would very much love to take part in a reasoning, my drug use has almost exlusivly been done alone in my own home.
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
You should read "The Millionaire Next Door" and "The Millionaire Mind." Both are basically books written about the results of interviewing people with over a million dollars in assets about their jobs, their lives, and their backgrounds. Few millionairs credit a superior intellect as having been important to success. Most were not great students in high school and college. The primary exception to this is the small percentage of millionaires who are doctors or lawyers.
High IQ will get you far in the lower to middle class rungs, but work ethic, social skills, and a viable business idea is what is needed generally to get into the upper crust if you weren't born there (and most millionaires are first generation).
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
My brother and his son have Bi-Polar disorder, and caffiene makes them sleepy too. On the other hand, something that makes normal people sleepy, like working a 16 hour day at the warehouse, makes him wide awake.
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
Your body is part of your conciousness as much as your brain is, it's just that the nerves and related tissue in the rest of your body are at a much lower concentration level. If you are in-tune with your body, you can listen to it very well and know what's good. You won't have to fight with it, either. You'll know what foods are best for you (for example, junkfood may be tasty, but it doesn't leave you feeling as good as if you ate healthy). You'll know when you're tired, and be able to wake up naturally on time. Meditation and concentration are really good for this. The model of the human body as something to be conquered and medicalized is a pretty western viewpoint, and not as accurate as the more time-tested models that eastern philosophies (such as buddhism) teach.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
He seems to have been in MDMA. It does exactly the same effect in my mind. The best drug I've ever tried.
Your head a splode