Nokia's Linux Handheld

Nils Faerber writes "Today Nokia announced the introduction of the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet device along with the Open Source based Maemo Development Platform. With this new product Nokia enters several new worlds all at once. A new concept for the use of a handheld device, a new fully visible open source based development process and the explicit use of open source software in a commercial grade product. The typical use case for the Nokia 770 is to be the internet usability extension to your mobile phone or other wireless internet access equipment. It is extremely portable by its small formfactor, usable for almost all internet applications thorugh its exceptional resolution of 800x480 pixel and its multimedia capabilities by making use of a TI-OMAP CPU and a accompanying digital signal processor (DSP) core. The consequent use of open source software and technology basing on the Linux kernel 2.6, X11-server technology and the GTK+ toolkit the resulting new Hildon graphical user interface creates a fully new user interface experience for portable Linux devices."

Comments

The nokia Internet tablet

[the_xaqster]

Take 2 and call me in the morning....

Re:The nokia Internet tablet

[spagetti_code]

I need pills for my headache after looking at the device.

Have a look at this picture of the unit - you need a magnifying class to read the web pages.

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

If this gets popular, and as presumably the interface will be similar to all other Nokia products, people will realise that Linux is not necessarily hard to use.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, they probably won't realize it has anything to do with Linux at all.

In any case, a wildly cut-down version of a Linux desktop has nothing to do with "Linux usability" in the usual sense, any more than a Linux- or Windows-based ATM says anything about the usability of the parent OS.

Re:Good

[garcia]

people will realise that Linux is not necessarily hard to use.

If by "people" you mean the general non-computer-geek population, then I really don't think they care what OS the unit is running. Tivo is easy to use and runs on Linux. Archos media players are easy to use... The list continues.

Linux *can* be difficult to use, especially as a home OS. UIs that lay over the kernel and OS don't have to be.

Re:Good

[CortoMaltese]

The FAQ confirms that "the user interface has its roots in the smartphone Series 90 user interface."

Re:Good

[joshdick]

1. What style is the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet user interface?
The user interface has its roots in the smartphone Series 90 user interface and has been specifically adapted for the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet. Features such as one hand usage, zooming, panning and full screen have been designed to create a convenient Internet usage experience.

Especially easy to use for pr0n.

Re:Good

[fm6]

Exactly right. Linux advocates need to stop thinking of themselves as evangelists. People will buy what works -- they could care less about geek religious issues. If you want to attack the Microsoft Monoculture, deal with the issues that makes it dominant: legacy support, interoperability, retraining costs.

Re:Good

[GnomeAttic]

If this gets popular, and as presumably the interface will be similar to all other Nokia products, people will realise that Linux is not necessarily hard to use.

You mean like the N-Gage? It took me 20 minutes to send a 3-word text message on a demo N-Gage and then it gave me the helpful error message "format unsupported".

Re:Good

[bit01]

I agree people should concentrate on technical issues however there is a double standard here.

When companies do it it's called "marketing" and when anybody else does it it's called "evangelism".

OSS unfortunately needs marketing (i.e. evangelism) just to be on a level playing field with the squillion M$ spends on marketing. OSS/FS marketing is often voluntary, like everything else in OSS/FS.

---

It's wrong that an intellectual property creator should not be rewarded for their work.
It's equally wrong that an IP creator should be rewarded too many times for the one piece of work, for exactly the same reasons.
Reform IP law and stop the M$/RIAA abuse.

Re:Good

[fm6]

That's ironic. By equating evangelism with marketing, you echo (unconsciously, I assume) Microsoft's "Your potential, our passion!"

But they're not the same thing. A marketeer is a hired gun who helps you find a market. An evangelist (in Greek, it means "bringer of good news") is a true believer who wants to make the world a better place. Billy Graham doesn't evangelize because he's worried about empty churches -- he wants to save souls.

I'm all for Linux advocates thinking less like evangelists and more like marketeers. Then they'd think more about solving the problems of potential Linux users, and less about telling everybody how cool Linux is.

Re:Good

[1lus10n]

Right because you dont need to retrain people when they move from nt4 to 2000 or 2003. You wont need to retrain them for longhorn either. Get a grip. While your at it please alert microsoft that nobody ever needs to be trained when upgrading their software since there are no differences from one version to another.

Interoperability with what ? They dont play nice with any other operating system and are notoriously bad about dealing with open standards.

Microsoft is dominant because it had business savvy when nobody else in the industry seemed to be any the wiser. They said "pay us for *every* machine you make, weather it includes windows or not" and everyone agreed because at the time it seemed like a logical choice since there was no major competition. Business sense would have said "leave yourself an out". No out. Hence the majority of PC makers have been locked into paying MS or Using MS for the past decade or so. Since MS is the OS thats shipped on the majority of machines not because its what everyone chooses. They lied cheated and stole to put themselves in this position because they knew they would profit greater than they would lose.

How many people do you know who have ever installed windows ? Not many of them are "normal users" I can assure you that. The majority of people just use whats already on the system unless they know what they are doing. Case in point: Apple. You dont see people wiping OSX out for something else. Heck a lot of peope still run ME. Never been a worse OS.

I have never had a person tell me that linux is difficult to use. Difficult to master sure. The average user is no more likely to recompile a kernel than they are to mess with the registry. You just sit and go. In many ways linux is much more sane than windows. File/directory structure is much more sane. Security is better. Performance is better because there aren't all these little bloatware/spyware/adware programs installed in the background. Mostly because the design and implementation is about actually working. Its not determined by marketing or what somebody thinks will be "idiot proof".

Everyone applies this theory about the average MS user being good with computers. That couldnt be farther from the truth. People act like the average MS user even knows what version of windows they are using, or what web browser or what anti virus etc etc. They have no clue. They just want to click and go. Guess what ? With a modern linux distro thats all you have to do the majority of the time. Yeah you might have some damn frustrating issues with a driver or what have you, but you have the EXACT same issues with MS. How many hundreds of sites are out there dedicated to fixing stupid little MS driver issues ? Think the average person knows how to do any of whats required on those sites ? Nope.

Re:Good

[bit01]

That's ironic. By equating evangelism with marketing, you echo (unconsciously, I assume) Microsoft's "Your potential, our passion!"

Nope, just echoing the dotcom BS where numerous businesses employed "evangelists", instead of marketing directors. M$ is just one of many.

But they're not the same thing. A marketeer is a hired gun who helps you find a market. An evangelist (in Greek, it means "bringer of good news") is a true believer who wants to make the world a better place. Billy Graham doesn't evangelize because he's worried about empty churches -- he wants to save souls.

Disagree. The formal definition of evangelist is somebody who promotes the christian gospel. Informally, it's just a promotor of something, whether a religion, a product or an idea.

I'm all for Linux advocates thinking less like evangelists and more like marketeers. Then they'd think more about solving the problems of potential Linux users, and less about telling everybody how cool Linux is.

Both are needed, one to promote feedback and continuous improvement, the other to neutralise the mountain of biased BS that M$ and similar companies put out.

It's stupid to pretend M$ and similar companies spending large sums of money trying to kill FOSS mindshare is not harmful. They want to marginalise FOSS. That's not going to happen.

---

GNU/Linux, the world's #1 OS by google hits. M$ windows #2.
Open Office the world's #1 office suite. M$ office #2.
Apache, the world's #1 web server. M$ IIS #2.
Evolution, the world's #1 email client, M$ outlook #2.
Unfortunately mozilla family browsers are still #2, M$ internet explorer is #1, but watch firefox (#3) grow.

Congratulations everybody, world domination. ;-)

Re:Good

[fm6]

I'm not sure what you mean by "formal definition". I'm certainly not going to accept a sloppy definition of "evangelist" just because it happens to be used in WordNet by some computer science student. In any case, "evangelist", like most words, has multiple meanings. You can't refute my argument just by insisting on a usage different from the one I meant.

Perhaps my point will be clearer if I restate my orginal argument without using that controversial word: Too much Linux advocacy is based on somebody's heartfelt belief that Linux is superior in every way to Windows. Not just superior technically, but socially, economically, even morally. I don't actually disagree with most of that -- I just think that most decision makers don't give a shit. If you want them to use Linux -- or any other OSS solution -- you need to show them how it addresses their needs as they perceive them, and stop trying to change their whole world view.

It's stupid to pretend M$ and similar companies spending large sums of money trying to kill FOSS mindshare is not harmful. They want to marginalise FOSS.

I've never disputed that. I'm only arguing that religious zealotry is not a productive response.

Re:Good

[bit01]

I'm not sure what you mean by "formal definition". I'm certainly not going to accept a sloppy definition of "evangelist" just because it happens to be used in WordNet by some computer science student. In any case, "evangelist", like most words, has multiple meanings. You can't refute my argument just by insisting on a usage different from the one I meant.

I checked offline before posting that definition link. In any case, Merriam-Webster and Oxford agree. I disagree with your view of .edu links, they are often more trustworthy than .com links for various reasons.

Perhaps my point will be clearer if I restate my orginal argument without using that controversial word: Too much Linux advocacy is based on somebody's heartfelt belief that Linux is superior in every way to Windows. Not just superior technically, but socially, economically, even morally.

I've never met an advocate that says Linux, or any FOSS, is superior in every way, particularly from a technical point of view. You're creating a straw man.

I don't actually disagree with most of that -- I just think that most decision makers don't give a shit.

It's partly about teaching them to give a shit - about taking the long term view, not the loaded short-term TCO arguments that M$ likes to push. I agree it's an alien way of thinking to many at the moment but you've got to start somewhere,

If you want them to use Linux -- or any other OSS solution -- you need to show them how it addresses their needs as they perceive them, and stop trying to change their whole world view.

Like I said, I think we need to do both. Addressing their immediate needs and also get them thinking long term.

M$ seems to think it's worth spending millions on biased "feel good" ad's with no actual content. Why is that? Can FOSS afford to ignore those ad's? I don't think so.

I think we're in agreement that FOSS should be promoted, just disagree on the emphasis.

Part of what's happening is that many Linux proponents are young. They're passionate about what they do. You're trying to push back the tide if you want to stop that.

---

Commercial software bigots - a dying breed.

Left-handed model?

[oni]

I doubt there will be a left-handed model. Pretty much every PDA or device like this one has buttons on the left side, which I can't use because I'm holding the device with my right hand because I need to write on it with my left hand.

Oh well, sucks to be me I guess.

Re:Left-handed model?

[Markus Persson]

You and some 600-700 million other people.

Re:Left-handed model?

[millahtime]

I doubt there will be a left-handed model. Pretty much every PDA or device like this one has buttons on the left side, which I can't use because I'm holding the device with my right hand because I need to write on it with my left hand.

These companies are obviously pregadous against left handed people. You should sue. This is discrimination. The right handers bringing down the left handers. It's must be a secret plot becuase the of the right handers in positions of power not wanting the left handers to get into their inner circle.

Re:Left-handed model?

[Soko]

Well, it is Open Source, so some enterprising leftie will write a screen/button flipper for the thing - you'll just need to learn how to use the buttons upside down (left arrow will change to right via software, but the pad will be at the bottom, not the top).

Soko

Re:Left-handed model?

[uradu]

In one of the Flash animations it is being passed from the left hand to the right one while flipping it around, seeming to suggest that you can use it upside down as well.

Re:Left-handed model?

[Compholio]

I doubt there will be a left-handed model.

Ummm, it's a tablet - flip it over and tell X11 to rotate the screen 180 degrees.

Re:Left-handed model?

[jintxo]

... pregadous ...

wtf?

Re:Left-handed model?

[BenBenBen]

Prejudicious

Re:Left-handed model?

[RockClimbingFool]

Yes it does. Your mom should have taken the crayon out of your left hand when you were a kid and put it in the right one. It would have saved you years of grief.

No way is my kid going to be left handed.

Re:Left-handed model?

[beardz]

Prejudiced, even :)

Re:Left-handed model?

[ozmanjusri]

It's must be a secret plot becuase the of the right handers in positions of power

Are you kidding? The president of the USA has TWO left hands! Just watch him next time he tries to operate an umbrella...

Re:Left-handed model?

[JWW]

You gotta wonder if you can rotate the display 180 degrees. That way the buttons would end up on the right, albeit in a different arrangement.

Re:Left-handed model?

[BenBenBen]

[annoyed grunt]

Re:Left-handed model?

[OldeTimeGeek]

The problem isn't with the soft buttons, but the hard ones. Rotating the screen programmatically is quite easy, but you're going to have problems with the external switches and buttons unless you place similar buttons on the opposite side or corner.

I have a tablet pc. All I can say is that it's a good thing that I'm not left-handed like the two generations before me, 'cause the scroll and all the hard buttons would be real hard to use.

Re:Left-handed model?

[RemovableBait]

Oh well, sucks to be me I guess.

On the contrary, left handers are immeasurably superior.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0871313073/ref=sib _dp_pt/002-0763382-2056844#reader-page

Re:Left-handed model?

[hawk]

It means, "highly susceptible to impregnation"

THus, there will soon be plenty of little left-handers about.

hawk

Re:Left-handed model?

[coachvince]

With my tablet PC, the reason I rotate the screen is so I don't have to worry about the hard buttons being on the wrong side; what am I missing here?
OK, I understand Nokia's prduct might be difficult, but with a true slate "Tablet PC", you just need to rotate the screen display.

Re:Left-handed model?

[lawpoop]

Shut up, righty.

Re:Left-handed model?

[Milkyman]

this is slashdot, write some software to flip the screen orientation!

Re:Left-handed model?

[hullabalucination]

These companies are obviously pregadous...

Don't be loodicruss.

Re:Left-handed model?

[maxume]

Google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=pregadous
Google suggests:
http://www.google.com/search?q=pregidous&spell=1
He probably meant(obviously):
http://www.google.com/search?q=prejudice&btnG=Sear ch
http://www.answers.com/prejudice&r=67

Re:Left-handed model?

[EphemeralPhart]

It's a limited mind that acknowledges only one way of spelling a word.

It does assist communication though, especially if the audience has access to, uhm ..., less powerfull parsing routines.

Yes, indeed.

Re:Left-handed model?

[corngrower]

The solution isn't always possible. If the device isn't mirror symmetric about a horizontal line, turning it over is not going to completely solve the problem.

Re:Left-handed model?

[ekwhite]

Sorry, but that kind of training doesn't work. I grew up when they tried to 'correct' left-handers. I would try to write left-handed; the teacher tried to correct me; I resisted. I got spanked or sent to the vice-principal's office a lot. I'm still left-handed to this day. I'm just a hell of a lot more stubborn than I would have been if they had just accomodated me.

Re:Left-handed model?

[ifwm]

Fuck you dude, being a lefty paid for college. i played a sport where lefties were valuable, and got a scholarship.

But if you want to pay for college...

Re:Left-handed model?

[solafide]

No, predigous is not a word. Yes, cromulent is a slang word. I think you ment predacious.

In reply to ozman's comment, you need to learn some more words. You could have saved 3 keystrokes and said ...of the USA is ambisinistrous. You /.ers have such limited vocabularies;)

No ethernet

[noisymime]

I know it kind of goes against the whole portability idea, but no ethernet?

Re:No ethernet

[DrSkwid]

can you think of any uses for that USB port ?

Re:No ethernet

[Azog]

The killer for me is no harddrive. If it only had a 40 GB microdrive, (and if the price was reasonable) I would get one instead of an MP3 player.

I want a single, very portable, programmable, do-nearly-everything device, and this could have been it. I want:

- MP3 (and OGG and FLAC) playback with a usable UI
- Fits-in-a-pocket portability. A big pocket is ok.
- 40 GB hard drive at least. I have a lot of music that I want to carry around, and need space for email and apps too.
- 16 hour battery life at least, so it goes as long between charges as I go between sleeps
- Linux OS, useable APIs for writing graphical apps, Tiny-X preferred for portability. I want to be able to write apps for it.
- USB (to hook up a small portable keyboard)
- Serial (to hook up my GPS)
- Wireless internet
- A decent email / calendaring / scheduling / tasklist application.
- A decent web browse (i.e. Firefox)

This is close but not quite. But it is closer than anything else I've seen yet.

Re:No ethernet

[exhilaration]

I would get one instead of an MP3 player.

Are you kidding? This thing is probably going to retail for $600-$700, based on what Nokia ultra-high-end smartphones ("Series 90") go for. You could two of the finest MP3 players on the market for this price.

Re:No ethernet

[noisymime]

i think your dream machine is still a little way off yet then... But with the nokia you could always just have your music collection on a flash drive or RS-MMC. The later would mean there wouldn't even be any extra size.

Re:No ethernet

[glebfrank]

Are you kidding? This thing is probably going to retail for $600-$700

$350, actually

Re:No ethernet

[juhaz]

40 GB hard drive would double the size of this thing, and 16h battery life is impossible, ESPECIALLY with the hard drive.

But keep on waiting, maybe in fifty years.

How much?

[datadriven]

The website doesn't list a price. Anybody know what they're going to charge for these?

Re:How much?

[MynockGuano]

MSRP is $350 (U.S.)

Re:How much?

[exhilaration]

No way! Where did you get that number?

GStreamer

[JohnFluxx]

Please note that it is also recently revealed that Nokia has been funding GStreamer ! Thank you Nokia!

Seen it already...

[CodeArtisan]

*cough* PSP *cough*

Re:Seen it already...

[Anonymous Coward]

cough PSP cant surf the web *cough*

nor can it read emails, play streaming radio and at least 60 other things.

the PSP is a neat portable game but a webpad it CERTIANLY is not.

so how do you click on a fricking link because the PSP lacks a touchscreen? and when is FLASH going to be released for the PSP?

*cough*

Re:Seen it already...

[generic-man]

Boy, there must be a cold going around or something. You should try non-drowsy DayQuil. Non-drowsy DayQuil works for up to eight hours and relieves cough, sneezing, stuffy head, fever, and other bothersome cold symptoms.

Click here for a free coupon for 50 cents off your next purchase of non-drowsy DayQuil.

Re:Seen it already...

[temcat]

Yesterday at work I was translating to Russian UI strings for PSP browser. So yes, it can surf the web.

Re:Seen it already...

[fbjon]

A C64 can too. But does anyone really want to?

Re:Seen it already...

[temcat]

Well, it's not like it will force you if you don't. Makes me wonder what you are doing here, though, if that's the case ;-)

Re:Seen it already...

[IANAAC]

So yes, it can surf the web.

Not out of the box it can't. You need to get a game that uses the browser. Then fake it out with your own DNS.

Battery Life

[AngryScot]

3 hour battery life seems to be a little short if you are going to be traveling and want to use it.

I suppose you could charge it in your car...

Re:Battery Life

[rho]

My thoughts exactly. 3 hour battery puts this into the "toy" range. You can't even pretend it'll work through a business day--it's for having something to surf porn with while on the john.

Exceedingly useless. Great idea, but the battery kills it.

Re:Battery Life

[wren337]

Come on, nothing has a working battery life of much more than 3 hours. Look at the screen on this thing. If a 3 hour battery life is the best gripe you can come up with, this thing will sell like hotcakes.

Me, I'm griping about the storage. What, no 20GB harddrive? Where will I keep my movies?

Re:Battery Life

[l810c]

3 hour battery life seems to be a little short if you are going to be traveling and want to use it.

It's only 1500 mAh, your average NiMH AA is at 2300 mAh each. This battery must be puny.

An external battery pack would be a cool option. 2 AA's in a small tube with wire could provide nearly 10 hours.

Re:Battery Life

[mjg59]

Your average NiMH AA is only 1.2 Volts. 1500mAh at 10 Volts is a lot more energy than 2300mAh at 1.2.

Re:Battery Life

[wowbagger]

It's only 1500 mAh, your average NiMH AA is at 2300 mAh each. This battery must be puny.

An external battery pack would be a cool option. 2 AA's in a small tube with wire could provide nearly 10 hours.

10 hours IF AND ONLY IF the pad runs on 1.25VDC, and you parallel the 2 AAs to get 1.25VDC @ 4600mAh.

If, as is more likely, the device runs on about 7VDC, you would need 12 2300mAh AAs running series/parallel (2 parallel strings of 6 batteries in series) to give you that time.

Remember - amp-hours ARE NOT energy - they are CHARGE. You need to take amp-hours times voltage to get units of energy (watt-hours).

Re:Battery Life

[fm6]

Never mind travelling. Even during an ordinary work day, you're often going to be away from your desk for more than 3 hours at a time.

Re:Battery Life

[mikelang]

Yeah, I would also prefer something even larger but with 24h+ battery life.

Re:Battery Life

[kitty tape]

Yet people use laptops with short battery life for many of the functions this could replace.

Stylus

[teiresias]

I've been using my Gateway tablet for about half a year now and while the stylus works and works well, it's not something I felt the same level of comfort using as I do when I use a pen or pencil. My guess would be that the stlus seems to slip more over the very slick screen.

In regards to the Nokia 770, the stylus seems to be the primary form of input and command for this device. Unless Nokia has changed the feel of stylus, this might hurt adopters of what looks like a neat PDA/tablet hybrid. Indeed, implementing a small keyboard similiar to the Sharp Zaurus PDA's would be very nice.

Re:Stylus

[Greyfox]

Or maybe a bluetooth keyboard or IR keyboard. I seem to recall seeing some cute little folding bluetooth keyboards a while back. In fact ThinkGeek has one.

Input methods and battery life have been the two major reasons I haven't purchased a PDA since the Palm V. You could go weeks between recharging your Palm, while you're lucky to get through a day with the latest crop. I got sick of grafitti after a while, too. Sony's Clie looked promising but the ones with the keyboards were inevitably more than I wanted to pay for a PDA. So I'm doing without until I can get one with all the features I want.

Re:Stylus

[Combuchan]

A screen protector vastly helps with the plastic on slick surface issue. It makes writingly substantially easier.

Nobody says you have to use the stylus that comes with. They sell multifunction pen/stylus devices the size of a regular ballpoint pen for about US$10 - $20.

Better picture

[BenBenBen]

Here

I've seen $350 quoted as a price point - once more and more devices start offering control access over TCP/IP (think TiVoweb, Xbox Media Centre etc) I think we've got a good candidate for the much-trumpeted "terminal" device that everyone uses around the home. I had the PSP pegged as a good place to start, providing a vibrant homebrew community springs up around it. This Nokia device offers that sort of functionality and development possibilites right out the box.

Re:Better picture

[JaseOne]

The PSP isn't suited for such a device at all, how are you going to easily get input into it? Heck a multi-function IR remote would be better than a PSP, using the control pad, analog stick or buttons just is not a viable input method for doing just about anything other than play games or watch movies (or listen to music I guess but I prefer something I can fit in my pocket for that).

I fail to see how people keep touting the PSP as this great multi-function device and how cool it will be once an official web browser is released, yeah that is until you get sick of typing in URL's via the on screen keyboard, heck it pisses me off no end just typing in things like the name of a wireless network I can't imagine typing something like a reply to a Slashdot post on it.

Except for the lack of an IR port the DS with it's touch screen is much more suited as a multi function device. I can just see a browser being released with the browser on the top screen and the keyboard along with scroll bars on the bottom touch screen, now that would be nifty!

PDA please!

[johansalk]

Looks exciting; can't wait for them to make a PDA out of it. I just wish they'd used regular SD instead of reduced size memory cards.

Re:PDA please!

[wiredlogic]

You don't need special drivers to talk to an SD. You can interface with an unencrypted SD card just like any old MMC.

Re:PDA please!

[nxtw]

No, you don't need special drivers, but you need to pay for the specifications for the high-speed SD card interface or be forced to retrieve data from the card using a slow serial interface.

It's $350

[jolyonr]

Not sure where you got the price from, but my sources say it's going to be $350.

Jolyon

Re:It's $350

[anagama]

That's a really great price and this looks like a really cool device. I just wish they had gone with compact flash instead of the card format they chose. It would be nice to be able to slap in a couple gigs of extra memory.

No CF slot?

[elementalist]

Why do manufacturers hate CF so? More over, mini-mmc? Was there not enough flash formats?

Re:No CF slot?

[iamnotanumber6]

Why do manufacturers hate CF so?

Because CF is based on the ancient ISA parallel bus interface - too many pins, too much overhead. The newer formats use a serial (eg. SPI) interface, more easily supported by microsontrollers, saving a lot of wiring and board space/complexity.

Re:No CF slot?

[bacademy]

Well, most new Nokia phones have RC-MMC. Those are much smaller than CF, for a comparable price. At least 512Mb units are available for about $50-$60.

Re:No CF slot?

[aaarrrgggh]

Never thought of it that way. Thanks.

Re:No CF slot?

[nxtw]

Why RS-MMC? Why not SD, which is many times more popular, or even a derivative of SD? The fees to implement SD* can't be that much, and a device of this size can surely support it.....

* -- see http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=15065 2&cid=12640564

what about KDE/Qt?

[Karma Sucks]

Since it supports Linux and X11, will it run and support KDE/Qt development?

Holy Crap! Sign me up!

[MeBadMagic]

This looks like what I've been waiting for. I didn't see any Office apps (OOo). This might be just the thing to convince my boss to get 2 of. One for him, and one for me to learn how to help him use his....

B=)

Re:How do I type on this thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also a virtual keyboard and text recognition.

A phone?

[MoobY]

Hm these guys at Nokia forgot putting a mobile phone into this thing...

Re:A phone?

[CortoMaltese]

From the full feature list:

The Nokia 770 Internet Tablet's software is upgradeable and currently runs on the Linux-based Internet Tablet 2005 software edition. There is a planned launch next year of an operating system upgrade - the Internet Tablet 2006 software addition - that will support additional services, including Internet telephony (VoIP) and Instant Messaging.

So in 2006, this gadget can be used as a WI-FI VoIP phone. This shall be very interesting.

... but shame on you, Nokia...

[lowieken]

for wanting to impose software patents on us in the EU!

Re:... but shame on you, Nokia...

[A beautiful mind]

Nokia is really mixed up in these matters:

• it supports open source stuff like this
• supports the anti-microsoft side in eu vs. microsoft battle
• on the other hand, supports software patents

I'd wish they'd just make up their mind and vouch for FOSS

Re:... but shame on you, Nokia...

[labratuk]

A company's right hand not knowing what its left hand is doing is nothing new.

A future with EU software patents is a future where tech companies have more lawyers employed than developers. My guess is that the people in charge of Nokia's stance on patents... are lawyers.

High-res images on Nokia press site

[tsvk]

Nokia's press site has some high-resolution images.

What will it cost?

[Petrus]

I'll buy one if it is under $500 and bunch of them if they make the cost under $200.
Did anyone see any word about the target price?

Re:What will it cost?

[Ionizer7]

estimated price is $350.

At $350 I'm in!

[cloricus]

I'm guessing that is USD... I paid $600AUD for my iPod which never leaves my right pocket. I cannot live without it. I'm looking at this and thinking this could take its place living in my left pocket as some thing I also wouldn't be able to live without. Looking at the specs and the fact that it is all Linux/FOSS I think it is some thing worth supporting, if it comes in at under $1000AUD I'm going to be down at the shops first day it is out in Australia buying one. :)

Re:Holy Crap! Sign me up!

[gnugnugnu]

OpenOffice is way too big for the limited storage space on these things, you wont be storing your Mp3 collection on it either.

It will fail

[lelitsch]

Not because of the price, but because it doesn't have any meaningful storage options. 128MB Flash is not going to do anything for movies, images or other downloads. Now if they'd put in a hard drive, or a expansion slot so you can get a few gigs of storage, you could download a movie to watch when you get out of range of broadband. And even in a few years, that's still going to be a lot of places. Ten years from now, wireless broadband will be truely everywhere, but even in places like Japan and Korea it's fiarly common to get out of 3G or WiFiMax range.

Re:It will fail

[fbjon]

BS. My pda has 128mb built in, and has an SD slot. I have no problems with storage. Besides, how much storage do you need for browsing, mail, etc.? This isn't a portable dvd-player.

Re:It will fail

[Combuchan]

Yes, we'll have wireless broadband everywhere, but only so you may legitimately download Approved Content(tm) from Vericingusprint, and they'll continue charging outrageous prices for even sending a kilobyte of data. Lord help you if you want unproxied HTTP or TCP with enough ports open to do any real work.

That is, there might be broadband everywhere in a few years, just don't count on using it.

Re:It will fail

[anagama]

There is no reason that this device should be solely for browsing the web or checking email. In fact, they make a big deal about all the media formats it supports:

• Audio: MP3, Real Audio, MPEG4, AAC, WAV, AMR, MP2
• Image: JPEG, GIF, BMP, TIFF, PNG, Animated GIF format, SVG-tiny, ICO
• Video: MPEG1, MPEG4, Real Video, H.263, AVI, 3GP

I have an MP3 player from a while back, 64mb built in with 128mb card -- 192 mbs is really not adequate. You have to carefully select and predict what you want to listen to with that little space. No room for spontaneity. My camera has a 128 mb card. For good picture quality, that's 70 pics. Wanna show friends some pictures -- make sure to carefully select and plan ahead. Want to have some portable porn? Better be a quickie. And last, what movie is going to fit into this space? Why even make it video capable if there is no storage?

My first impression of this was "COOL" - perfect thing to pack along on an extended motorcycle trip where limited space makes even a laptop seem too big. But as I consider the storage limitations intentionally built in to the device, it seems more and more like a toy instead of something useful. Other than not competing with the iPod, why would they cripple it this way? There is no good reason. With CF, you could have a gig of storage for $100, and several if you are willing to spring for the "big" cards. This thing would suddenly be able to function pretty close to a real computer. Right now, it's a toy. I'm feeling burned and I haven't even bought it. If it had CF, I'd be in line to get one first day out.

Re:It will fail

[fm6]

So you want to sit down and watch a movie, but you can't be bothered to find a hotspot? Whatever. You can't dismiss a device just because it doesn't support a minor need -- one already met by existing products. Nokia is a wireless company, so of course they hardware assumes that connectivity is available.

Battery life is more of an issue.

Re:It will fail

[juhaz]

512MB RS-MMC cards are cheap and enough for everything expect video, and you can still have the gig, it currently costs bit more than $100, but the prices will come down soon enough.

CF/PCMCIA is electrically ancient, and takes ton of the most valuable resource you have - circuit board space. Who knows how much larger it would have to be to accommodate that monster. You don't even have ISA bus that these things basically are in your PC any more, why on earth would anyone want them in a handheld.

As for feeling burned, well, you're free to be burned by every time someone comes up with a product that doesn't include you in the target category, but that just makes you an idiot.

Compared To?

[simpl3x]

What can you compare this to? The Palm devices? It seems to have a good screen 800 x 600, Wi-Fi... I can imagine teachers carrying something like this around to hold teacher edition texts, and accessing the school network. IMHO, this is very cool, and could open up a lot of opportuniity in web applications for verticle markets.

I wish it had a sim card, and I hope that they offer a keyboard tray of some sort.

Re:Compared To?

[GuyWithLag]

Since it has bluetooth, just use something like the frogpad.

Re:Compared To?

[Hast]

I'd compare it to devices like the Sony U50/U70. Only those don't have Bluetooth. (And are only available in Japan.)

Re:Compared To?

[gman99]

I hope that they offer a keyboard tray of some sort.

It has bluetooth support. Get any bluetooth wireless keyboard, or this one from Nokia.

I wish it had a sim card

Try the 7710 instead. Granted, that does not run Linux (its a Symbian Series 90 device); Tis device (the 770) is more of a screen enlarger for those with existing mobiles (with bluetooth)

Re:Compared To?

[guanxi]

What can you compare this to?

I recently spent time researching hi-resolution handhelds (VGA or better). Here's a list for you to google. All vary in specs, but are comparable; some are import only, recently retired and/or available "soon".

* oqo
* Samsung Nexio S160 and XP30
* Fujitsu LOOX 718, 720, v70, and .U Pocket,
* Sharp Zaurus SL-C3000, -1000, -860, -760
* Dell Axim X50v
* HP hx4700
* Asus MyPal a730
* Toshiba e830
* Sony PCG-U101, VGN-U71, VGN-U50
* NTTDocomo Sigmarion III
* Psion / PsionTeklogix Netbook Pro 3000
* Danger Hiptop2 ( VGA)
* Tiqit Tiqit
* Vulcan Flipstart
* Voq Professional Phone ( VGA)
* HTC Blue Angel (rebranded as Audiovox XV6600, among others; VGA; but some models run on EV-DO networks(!))

Re:Compared To?

[guanxi]

#@$@! Slashdot removed the lesser than signs in front of VGA, which I guess I should have expected.

Anywhere in the list you see VGA , it should be < VGA (i.e. less than VGA).

Apps

[Kludge]

If it's really running X and GTK, apps galore already abound. SWEET!

No it won't

[dcrocha]

It only supports GTK user interfaces. I have direct contact with people on that project and that's something that will not change for now.

AP says it runs Opera

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2005/05/25/AR2005052500555.html

"In one similarity to Nokia's smart phones, the tablet employs the Opera browser from Opera Software ASA."

Blog name

[eGuy]

Maemo will need a name for their blog/planet. How about Maemo-gram

Limited until...

[wertarbyte]

I guess this device will be limited in its flexibility to make it easier to use for the average joe. I'm waiting for a project like Familiar and/or GPE (famous for their iPAQ system) to port their stuff to the device...really sweet then :-)

Re:Limited until...

[Raphael]

I'm waiting for a project like Familiar and/or GPE (famous for their iPAQ system) to port their stuff to the device

That should not be necessary. I am a big fan of Familiar and GPE, having installed them on several iPAQs. You will recognize that Maemo and GPE have a lot of things in common such as GTK+, Matchbox and many other parts of their respective platforms (check the Maemo SDK for more info about the platform).

With Maemo, Nokia has done a great job in polishing the user interface and cleaning up several libraries. I don't think that replacing it with GPE would make much sense, as it would be a step backwards. On the other hand, I think that both projects can benefit from each other.

Re:Limited until...

[wertarbyte]

I'm more hoping to get the ipkg package system working on that thing, being able to install additional software would be extremely cool. Consider how many custom packages there are for iPAQ/Familiar or Linksys WRT54G/OpenWRT (uses ipkg as well) devices, Nokia should be interested in getting a huge boost in application availability through the big OSS community.

Re:Limited until...

[Raphael]

I'm more hoping to get the ipkg package system working on that thing,

Yes, ipkg is nice. It is derived from Debian's dpkg. The good news for you is that maemo uses dpkg directly.

See for example the sections "Creating debian/ directory" and "Creating package" near the end of the howto for creating a new application. Another example can be found in the howto for porting an existing application.

Maemo is probably more open than you think...

Re:Limited until...

[wertarbyte]

Maemo is probably more open than you think...

I hope so, it's a point I where I gladly stand corrected. But AFAIR maemo is only the development platform? Hopefully much of this openness will remain in the end user product.

Re:Limited until...

[Karora]

Yeah, and ain't it interesting that this year's DebConf is in Helsinki, Finland, and that it's at least partly sponsored by Nokia...

I'm off to Helsinki for Debconf5 in five weeks myself, and I'm hoping to see if I can lay my grubby little mitts on one of these devicen :-)

Re:Forget ethernet, no bluetooth??!!!

[noisymime]

ummmm it has bluetooth.....

And then be disappointed

[sjf]

my Nokia trinitron monitor's interface sucks. My Nokia cellphone's interface is fine, but nothing to be excited about. But then none of these devices run Linux. My Tivo has a pretty good interface for what it does, and that IS running on Linux, but I would caution anyone from concluding that since the TiVo is easy to use Linux is easy to use.

Linux is free and customizable: companies with good designers and UI engineers can put good interfaces on top of it.

hmmmm

[HaydnH]

2 days after I baught a Treo 650 on a 2 year contract... bugger!

Re:hmmmm

[squiggleslash]

This device is not actually a phone, so I wouldn't worry about it. It can connect to a phone via BlueTooth, but that's about it.

Re:hmmmm

[HaydnH]

ohhhh... just saw "after a software upgrade it will be VOIP compatible" in the specs and assumed it must have a speaker/microphone, hence assumed it was also a phone - it's true what they say, it's the mother of all ........

Re:Forget ethernet, no bluetooth??!!!

[tuxnduke]

What do you mean no bluetooth ?

(Straight from the site:)
Connectivity:
* WLAN: 802.11b/g
* Bluetooth specification: 1.2

I can't swallow that!

[Anonymous Coward]

...

Well then good news! It's a suppository!

Could be perfect for CarPCs

[sonny317]

If the screen is bright enough to be daylight readable as some of the outdoor press shots would suggest, you have a very compact, removable linux-based media engine with hi-res touchscreen and navigation buttons. If much of any developer community adopts it (hard to imagine it wouldn't), there will probably be support for all sorts of additional media formats and peripherals. Given that current sunlight-readable VGA touchscreens cost ~$3-5 hundred USD alone, this could easily knock the price of building a carpc setup in half.

you're in luck

[cahiha]

It's open source and it's X11 based. That means that RandR probably works on it and you can just rotate the screen 180 degrees.

should work

[cahiha]

Well, yes, it should: since it is X11 based and since KDE and Gnome have worked on standardizing common desktop features between them, Qt and KDE applications should work pretty well on it.

Furthermore, deriving a KDE handheld environment from the KDE desktop software should not be much work.

This is the way handheld Linux software should be done. Qt/Embedded and Qtopia's approach is unnecessarily exclusionary: with Qt/Embedded, you cannot realistically use any non-Qt GUI applications on the handheld.

maemo - its all 'open'

[kerskine]

Just did a quick read of the licenses section of the FAQ. They've released the UI, Skins, and Graphics under the Creative Commons (CC) license. I guess they want to see maemo used on other platforms (assuming the license fee for the graphics is reasonable).

Re:maemo - its all 'open'

[antrik]

"The" Creative Commons License? There are a whole bunch of licenses in the Creative Commons framework; and they are quite different in the amount of freedom they offer.

maemo uses the Creative Commons Attribution license, which is free; but you always need to mention the whole name when talking about Creative Commons. The more restrictive licenses in the framework are still better than the usual proprietary licenses; but -- while they might be sufficient for typical artwork like songs or novels -- many of the Creative Commons licenses are *not* suitable for use in free software projects. For those, you need a license that offers the same amount of freedom as for the code. So be careful, and always check *which* of the Creative Commons licenses actually was used.

Screenshots!

[spectrokid]

http://www.maemo.org/screenshots.html

Wait! No hard drive storage specification?

[serverleader]

So.. I can't store a 600mb video on this thing?

I think I will keep in mind the new LifeDrive (palm http://www.palmone.com/us/products/mobilemanagers/ lifedrive/) , essentially a cross between a mobile media player, portable hard drive and an organizer.

Which has 4 gigabytes of internal storage and a high-resolution screen for on-the-road access to music, video, digital photos, e-mail and office documents.

Re:Wait! No hard drive storage specification?

[apathyonline]

The lifedrive is also slow because of the hard drive

I want one!

[miffo.swe]

n/t

Great device, but from Nokia????

[theolein]

While a device this size is a fantastic idea, if it works as a notepad and sketchbook while playing mp3's, and would be an ideal device for students as it's far less bulky than regular Tablets, I somehow have the feeling that it is going to die a silent death because Nokia is not known for its intuition in the market.

Remember the NGage? While Nokia makes very good mobile phones, they almost always seem to lack a feeling of just how gadgets and devices should be used. For instance, if the screen is too small on this device, people won't use it for making long notes or sketches. If the memory is too frugal people won't load songs and other data onto it.

I wish somehow that Apple would make a device like this. I think they would "get it right", i.e. big enough for a student to use productively but not so big as to be bulky, with enough memory for data storage and built in iTunes for songs.

Re:Great device, but from Nokia????

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, I agree. As a student, I can say it's almost perfect for me. But the difference between "almost perfect" and "perfect" is like the fine line between love and hate: In other words, it's actually useless.

To be useful, it needs exactly two things: a normal aspect-ratio screen, so that it can function like a sheet of paper (e.g. letter size scaled 50%, or A4), and either a hard drive or a CF slot for more storage. So yeah, your comment about the screen size and storage amount was right on the mark.

There's also one other thing I'm concerned about: thickness. It's easier to write on something thin sitting on the table in front of you, especially when it's small enough that you can't rest your hand on it. It ought to be about 1/4 inch thick, and absolutely no thicker than 1/2 an inch.

Re:Great device, but from Nokia????

[nmos]

I wouldn't be surprised if it had (or gained later?) the ability to rotate the display like my Zarus. You're right on the writing comfort issue though but it's not just the thickness. There is something about using a stylus on a screen that just doesn't feel as precise as using a pen on paper. On the other hand, having years worth of notes with you beats sorting through a box of note pads any day.

Re:Great device, but from Nokia????

[10Ghz]

Nokia is not known for its intuition in the market.

Which is why they are by far the biggest player in the mobile-phone business: By providing products no-one wants to use.

Remember the NGage?

Ah yes, since Nokia has a product that flopped, their all non-phone products are doomed to fail as well?

Remember the Communicator? It was released years (in 1996 IIRC) before any other PDA-Phones, and it was a phenomenal success. it was the shape of things to come and they were years ahead of everyone else.

if the screen is too small on this device, people won't use it for making long notes or sketches.

If the screen is too big, the device gets so big that people wont carry it around.

I wish somehow that Apple would make a device like this. I think they would "get it right"

No matter what the fanboys try to tell you, they don't always "get it right". Remember the Cube? Great machine, true, but WAY overpriced.

Nokia PDA???

[Stephen Chadfield]

So, the PDA is dead and is to be replaced by the smartphone - and now Nokia are producing a handheld which isn't a phone. Weird...

Liferea

[Netsensei]

Great! From TFA I saw one of the feats will be: news reader. So you would be able to subscribe to your fav feeds. Indispensable to a good pda with web capabilities, me thinks.

Even better: noticing on the screenshots they've included my fav newsreader: liferea!

Nokia chooses Opera, not Firefox, for browser

[Rits]

Nokia still chooses Opera, not Firefox, for its browser. It will be interesting to see when Minimo is finally capable of running meaningfully on a device that weighs 230 grams.

I think this device looks great, especially when it is closed.

Re:Nokia chooses Opera, not Firefox, for browser

[Raphael]

Nokia still chooses Opera, not Firefox, for its browser.

Hmmm... Did you check Gtk+ WebCore, sponsored by Nokia?

They also contributed a bit to Minimo although they probably do not consider it to be fully usable yet.

Will it be able to play a complete movie ?

[serverleader]

you got a point there !... I just love the linux part.. so i can write my gtk apps!! that's my main reason of getting one.. You guys think the battery will allow to watch a complete movie? with out having to stop in the middle and recharge ?

No 3G/GSM?

[ubera]

I think it's a pity that the rather beautiful design and obviously neat software doesn't include Nokia's core function: mobile phone connectivity (and not through BT).

Re:No 3G/GSM?

[bfl]

It supports AMR, which is the 3GPP standard codec. I'm guessing they'll use AMR with VoIP for voice connectivity, that way they can link in with 3G systems without transcoding.

Re:No 3G/GSM?

[Hast]

And good riddance to it. Personally I find it a bonus that it doesn't have a phone in it. I laready have phones that have BT, I don't need another one.

And it allows the platform to be more open than if you have to adhere to the strict rules for mobile phones.

For me the inclusion of a phone would have ment no-sale. This way it seems interesting.

Re:How do I type on this thing?

[KillerDeathRobot]

OTOH, most password protected sites will work well only with IE and not w other browsers.

Um, no. Most password protected sites work just fine with other browsers.

The uses cases

[asv108]

shown in the flash on the page linked, all seem like smartphone use cases to me. Almost all of them can be summed up with "Use internet for short time periods."

Sounds like what most people use their Treos for, but why would i want to carry around this large device that can only connect to the net if I happen to be in area with open wifi? For instance the Airport use case, if I wanted to do a quick e-mail check using airport wifi it would be ~$8/hr in most Airports. With a smartphone, most users would already have an unlimited data plan.

Re:The uses cases

[iamnotanumber6]

...can only connect to the net if I happen to be in area with open wifi?

you can also connect it to the net through your regular mobile phone, with bluetooth.

personally i like the idea that my phone is just a phone, and not some huge thing with a qwerty keyboard to hold up to my face. and if i want something for messaging/internet, i'd rather have something with a nice interface and screen like this.

Some good signs though

[hemul]

here

Re:Some good signs though

[VStrider]

"Nokia Corporation announced today that it allows all its patents to be used in the further development of the Linux Kernel."
...
"With respect to new functionality introduced into future Linux Kernel releases, Nokia reserves the right to declare that the Patent Statement shall not apply."

So basically they are saying they won't sue anyone at the moment but they might change their mind in the future.

Re:Some good signs though

[squiggleslash]

Not exactly. If they're being honest, and trying to keep to the letter and spirit of the GPL, they're not going to sue as long as future versions of the kernel do not infringe on their patents in ways it doesn't already today.

That's difficult to word (bet the above looks pretty convoluted as it is), so let me put it this way. Suppose the kernel contains a routine to implement a GSM protocol that happens to infringe on Nokia's patents. Nokia are saying "That's fine", and are obliged to treat it as fine as long as the future implementations that infringe upon that patent are based directly on that code.

Now suppose someone unrelated adds code, without modifying the above, to support, I don't know, an iDEN protocol, and it happens that this entirely new code also infringes upon Nokia's patents. In this case, Nokia probably has the right to sue, and is saying they may do so depending on whether they feel it's worth their while or not.

The way around this is probably for the iDEN code submitters to base their code on the Nokia's submitted GSM code.

In this respect, I suspect Nokia's statement is a little disingenious given that if they weren't to engage in this policy, they would be violating the GPL by providing Linux with the handheld in the first place. But it certainly shouldn't be read as saying that they may sue those who redistribute or use a future version of the Linux kernel that contains no new code revelent to Nokia's patents.

Almost there...

[Bodhammer]

Everything I want except Outlook Sync and storage for a movie or two...

Keep trying Palm and Nokia, you've almost got it!

Newton II where are you?

Re:Almost there...

[Saanvik]

I agree, this device is really, really close to what I want.

The screen resolution makes it much nicer, for me, than the LifeDrive, but having to buy mini-sd cards for storage is a negative that you don't have with the LifeDrive.

When you say Outlook sync, I assume you mean calendar and task syncing, right? I'm sure, if it doesn't come with that out of the box, someone will create an application that does it. It's probably one of the most common use cases currently for such a device.

Two negatives about this device for me. Battery life, and no keyboard. Thank goodness it has bluetooth so you can get a bluetooth keyboard. However, without a built in keyboard, it will become, for most users, nearly a read-only device.

No 3G or GPRS

[jd 0001]

Seems like a mistake not include any kind of connectivity that works away from the home/office. What if I want to browse whilst sitting on a train?

Re:No 3G or GPRS

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it does have bluetooth. Get a bluetooth enabled phone and hook them up and you have your connectivity. This will allow you to have a smaller phone to use as an actual phone and you can then use this device just when you want internet or it's other features instead of having to carry something large around just because you may need to make a phone call.

Archos did it before.

[jonathan3003]

Similar (and better) devices already exist.

See, for example, the PMA400.

It is open source, linux based, has a 30gb hd, and has many other goodies.

But it is still nice to see that a large company like nokia is offering such a product. It will definitely help to spread linux :)

Re:Archos did it before.

[kitzilla]

But I could almost buy an iBook for the price of the Archos. Looks like a great device, but -- ouch -- the price!

Another option...

[IANAAC]

I doubt there will be a left-handed model. Pretty much every PDA or device like this one has buttons on the left side, which I can't use because I'm holding the device with my right hand because I need to write on it with my left hand.

Not trying to state the expensive-but-obvious alternative, but have you considered a Zaurus c1000/c3000 import? They both have all hte buttons on the right side and below the keyboard. Folded, it looks to be about the same size too.

It is expensive, though. that said, I love mine and have gotten every penny out of it with daily use.

frogpad doesnt look easy to type fast.

[serverleader]

there is no way that I will be able to type fast on that thing... I will probably have to spend like $400 bucks on the device + training..

Agh!

[RichiP]

But why OH WHY isn't it a cellphone as well?!?! Just when I thought my wait for my ideal devices was over. With these specs, I'd rather shell out for a Sharp SL-C3000 ... guess I need to wait a bit more.

Re:Agh!

[Hast]

1) As has been pointed out (multiple times) use BT with your mobile phone.
2) How would you talk into that in any case? It would make people using the Ngage look hip and cool in comparison.

Re:Agh!

[iamnotanumber6]

But why OH WHY isn't it a cellphone as well?!?!

OH WHY would you want it to be? Why would you want to hold a great big thing like that up to your face? Why not shop around to find just the phone you like, and then use this for web stuff? They're quite different functions.

Re:Agh!

[jafomatic]

1. Speakerphone option.
2. Bluetooth handsfree from jabra (duh?)

I'm still okay with it not being a phone, but I don't see why it couldn't also be that. I'd accept a slightly larger form (perhaps in width or height rather than depth) to include the antenna and whatever else the phone would need. Perhaps some larger battery capacity? Surely the keypad could be put on screen when dialing and hidden when, for example, the user is taking notes during the conversation.

This is almost the "one true device" despite that it lacks storage, camera, and phone. I still like it. Here's why:

• I don't need the camera that bad.
• I don't need music storage that bad if we can stream digital music from the cellphone network as this says it will do.
• It works with the phone that could stay in my pocket.

Between bluetooth, wifi, and usb, the chance for huge improvements remains high. Other 3rd party devices could be made (like a bluetooth digital camera?) which would satisfy some of the other desires.

...I wonder if ttyquake would run on this :)

Re:Agh!

[RichiP]

Because I'm looking for one device to act as my cellphone and organizer. I don't intend to put the unit to my face. I'll have a bluetooth headset to do that for me. At the same time, I could jot things down on my device or look up information.

I'd rather have that one device and a bluetooth handset rather than a cellphone and a browsing unit.

Re:Agh!

[tao]

Probably, but we've been running graphical quake on it, so why bother? =)

So $799 vs $350

[serverleader]

bigger screen($350) vs USB + 30Gig ($799) ... uhm...
Dont get me wrong the Pocket Media Assistant PMA400 kicks ass but not at $800 bucks

Maybe not

[wiredog]

I suspect the card slot will soon have larger cards, and it does have a USB port. And who wants to watch a movie on a 5.5 * 3 inch screen?

Would be a great picture viewer.

Re:Maybe not

[Combuchan]

Ask the people that make Pocket DivX, my former boss, just about anybody who would care to watch a movie on a 3 x 2.5" 320x240 screen. They're out there.

If you were stuck at the airport all night and all you had were a few movies on compact flash and a decent pair of headphones, you'd understand this more.

Never underestimate the processing power bored people need with their PDA's.

Re:Maybe not

[PDA_Monkey]

Yes, I regularly watch entire DVDs on my PDA.
I transcode them with dvd::rip to ~400MB XviD4.
They are stored on my 512MB SD card.
I'll eventually upgrade to a 1GB or larger card and have multiple to choose from.

Amazing!

[TeknoHog]

Finnish gadget manufacturer adopts Finnish OS. What took them so long?

it still sucks....

[O2dude]

what about audio IN? that way it would (shock horror) actually be useful, because we could (possibly) run skype on it.

Re:it still sucks....

[nchip]

It has a mic, and with some programming you could connect to a bluetooth headset.

Re:USB

[bhtooefr]

Just because it's a hard drive does not mean that it can't pull under 500uA @ 5V (a powered USB port's power output)...

A 1.8" drive pulls ~1.5W at full load, 3.3V. Simple math says that that's under 500uA - for 3.3V, so less for 5V.

However, I think that the real problem is that the USB port is most likely a USB client, not a USB host. If it's a client, and USB OTG isn't supported, then forget about hooking anything up, unless it's a USB host.

Passwords, security.

[Anonymous Coward]

And if you're wanting to do stuff that requires great security such as online banking and/or purchases with credit cards, etc... then using a wireless device to do so, means you must be nuts or careless or both.

Take a Maemo

[Doc Ruby]

"Modified Hildon GTK+ is more suitable for embedded device, but it's still binary-compatible with normal GTK+."

The major milestone here is Nokia developing for mobile devices that runs on Linux (it's a tweaked GNU GTK+, in fact). That means that the premiere organization bringing mobile computing to the masses is figuring out the presentation layer. Which Linux programmers can then use to deliver apps to those mobile masses. Hildon transcends just this phone, just Nokia, and even just "phones". When someone writes a GNOME->Hildon porting tool, Linux developers and the mobile mass market will really go together nicely. And since Maemo apps are Debian packages, SW can be distributed to this huge market with a familiar mechanism that includes automatic comarketing via dependencies. This is going to be fun.

But....

[Colourspace]

...Does it run Longhorn?

Pregadous

[doru]

It's a perfectly cromulent word !

Can you say...

[LWATCDR]

Games!
I want one.

It's a...

[Valiss]

... pregadous ...
wtf?
...perfectly cromulent word.

well, not bad...

[rwven]

this is really the next step towards the star trek "padd" device IMO. something we can use to access a lot, but not too much. extremely easy to use and something you will likely keep around the house or on the kitchen counter, by the bed, in the bathroom reading material, etc. I'm impressed and i can guarantee you i'll own one...

I don't

[wiredog]

I'm working on development on a Zaurus C3000.

This is the same Nokia...

[linuxhansl]

that is lobbying hard to bring unlimited software patents to Europe.

I realize Nokio is a big company with many more or less independent departments; but this strikes me as "riding the horse both ways".

Re:Take a Maemo - Debian?

[SlightlyOldGuy]

The Debian repository is interesting. So this Linux is Debian based, perhaps?

Re:Take a Maemo - Debian?

[tao]

Yes.

Wrong wrong wrong

[OlivierB]

Excep that AAa run at 1.5V each which is unlikely to be the voltage of the battery in this baby (phone & PDA batteries are usually between 3.5 and 5V)

So yes you get 4600mAh with two AA batteries but only at 1.5V (or more precisely 1.2V which is the electric potential for Ni-MH).
Or you get 2300mAh at 1.2V*2 (2.4V).

You should think in terms of power by having a simple U*I
So if the battery in the tablet rated for 1500mAh @ 4V, then power = 6W
Power for a couple of Ni-MH at 2300mAh each is 2*(2.3*1.2)=5.52W
The battery they will use is also probably LIthium which makes it lighter and more resistent to charge fade. Did I mention it is also much smaller?

AA are only good if you need power in standard format, ie you can go to the local Eckerds and get some juice for your Camera, Palm etc..
They are not the best things for W/cm^3 or W/gram

Re:Wrong wrong wrong

[Tupper]

The battery they will use is also probably LIthium which makes it lighter and more resistent to charge fade. Did I mention it is also much smaller?

Um, I couldn't disagree more. Rechargeable AAs also use Lithium. Plus you can charge them separately from the device, replace them with better batteries when the better batteries come along next year, and, in a emergency, use alkalines from any convenience store in the world.

Standard size batteries win unless the device form factor is very strange, which is not the case here.

BTW: energy is what's conserved here; Joules or milliwatt hours are the right metric.

Re:Wrong wrong wrong

[nxtw]

the rechargable AA batteries I have here (2500mAh Duracell) are nickel metal hydrate (NiMH), IIRC

Bluetooth keyboard and this... maybe...

[javaxman]

That would make it usable to me. Virtual Keyboards suck, pure and simple, and as much as I like to surf the web, I'm not laying down $350 for something to look at websites with a tiny screen.

IF the CPU ( uh, I don't see that in the spec, that makes me worry, folks... ) is powerful enough, and you could pack on external batteries to keep it going for 3 hours *while* actually using your Bluetooth keyboard, it looks like it could *almost* work as a more-portable laptop replacement. Something to type up notes on while sitting in the park or coffee shop, that kind of thing.

Not that I'm going to run out and get one. I still look at this and think "but... maybe I just want a laptop..". On the other hand, if you could use a BT keyboard with it, it might be sort of like a low-power, extremely small laptop with a keyboard you can ditch when you're not entering lots of data... that does have a certain appeal.

Re:Bluetooth keyboard and this... maybe...

[Big Jojo]

Quoting the anon coward since I've no mod points today:

It's an ARM 9 based omap 1710 with up to 220mhz and a DSP. It's a nice platform / processor but the 800x480 screen make the processor sweat =)

The integrated lcd controller is probably not being used; or maybe it is. 160 KB SRAM dedicated to it.

If this catches on, the omap 2420 based version will be much fun to see. Those are based on ARM11 -- armv6, rather than armv5tej -- and have much more video horsepower.

Linux 2.6.12 ... ;)

Ogg vorbis support?

[Kili]

I notice it doesn't have ogg vorbis format support. I wonder how long before someone hacks in superior audio format for listening?

Ahh the power of opensource...

Re:Ogg vorbis support?

[rillian]

I talked to Uraeus about this a bit. The machine has combined ARM9/TI DSP cores. The idea is that you want the codecs running on the DSP, and apparently the free Xiph codecs we're included in the launch because there's no DSP port of the reference implementations. (There's no GCC back end for the dsp, although some folks are working on a related series.) This includes Ogg Theora, Speex and FLAC as well as Ogg Vorbis.

Whether the ARM is too slow (or battery consumptive) to run the decoders on its own, I'm not clear but with everything open source it will be easy to check.

I'll be a Guadec, where they are apparently also doing a demo, so hopefully will know more next week.

In the long term though we need help with the DSP gcc port and someone to do hand-optimized asm for the xiph codecs. If anyone's interested, please let us know.

Re:Ogg vorbis support?

[Unknown Lamer]

The Neuros Firmware has had its source released and contains a copy of Tremor ported to run on the c54x, if the the Nokia 770 uses the ARM9/c54x combined core I'm sure it could be ported to the 770. The hard part (getting it to run at an acceptable speed on the c54x) has already been done at least.

Sean Starkey is also in the middle of getting libflac to compile with the TI Compiler right now. In theory it should be able to decode without needing any serious optimisations.

Cause then i could convince my boss to get me one

[SkjeggApe]

to replace my current cellphone :-)

Deja Vu

[Nih, the Koaster]

I seem to remember Nokias previous outing into open source internet tablets, with the 'proof-of-concept' MediaScreen:

• http://press.nokia.com/PR/199908/776321_5.html
• http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=7 86
• http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/newss/977/1 /screenshot698/

That time around it was the mozilla, and it had digital TV integrated.

There's also the more recent Media Terminal, which is probably best left forgotten:

• http://press.nokia.com/PR/200009/790116_5.html
• http://slashdot.org/articles/01/01/18/0327252.shtm l
• http://slashdot.org/articles/01/05/16/1330236.shtm l

~

Not so good signs

[mjrauhal]

The patent license seems to be purely a PR stunt without any real substance whatsoever.

First, they don't even assert that anything is covered by their patents.

Second, they assert a right to start acting up if something that is covered by their patents ends up in the kernel.

And third, most importantly, if some patented thing were covered by this license, its use is only authorized in the Linux kernel, which is incompatible with GPL's clause 7. It follows that if Nokia makes a credible patent claim on something that is in the kernel, then nobody has a license to distribute the kernel anymore until the patent issue is sorted out in the usual manner.

To sum it up, they're just trying to shine their shield after bashing some FFII heads in here in the EU.

(Sorry for the dup, managed to log in now, and hey, that's slashdot for you.)

Few things would make this device Great

[skgala]

1. Small keyboard that can be attached/removed when needed. 2. Hard Disk 3. Ethernet port

I've seen it. It sucks.

[richi]

I'm here at LinuxWorld in New York, and I've played with one. Some thoughts at www.richi.co.uk.

Summary: It sucks. I wanted to like it, but ... I didn't.

Re:I've seen it. It sucks.

[richi]

I'm replying to my own post, 'cos I picked up a few anonymous flame comments and hate-mail. At the risk of feeding trolls, I offer this response.

Re:Pregadous

[DFarmerTX]

I think he meant pregadoux, a Cajun word meaning pregnant. -- This is not a script

Re:A phone *and* a GPS

[geirt]

I think a phone (using a bluetooth headset) and a GPS whould be a nice addition to this (almost) perfect PDA. I want one.

Kernel sources

[PsychoKiller]

I poked around the repository, but I didn't find any kernel sources or patches. Does anyone know where to get the kernel images?

Re:Kernel sources

[PsychoKiller]

According to the Linux Arm machines page, the config type is CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA770 but I wasn't able to find this in the Linux OMAP patches.

Any ideas about where a .config file is that I can use?

Re:Kernel sources

[tao]

If you read the Linux-OMAP mailing list, you'll find this:

The kernel stuff (except the WLAN module, to which we have NDA limitations) will be published and merged to the public OMAP tree as soon as I find the time.

Re:Kernel sources

[PsychoKiller]

Awesome, thanks!

Alex

Another attempt

[Mad Ogre]

Another attempt at making a great handheld device... and another miss. But this was a good try. Really is. Wouldn't buy it for 200. Would ebay it if it was given. I use such devices as a laptop replacement... but this one somehow seems more limited regardless of the nicer display.

Right right right (parent)

[wsanders]

There is no such thing as a rechargeable AA lithium cell. "Lithium" AA's use Lithium-Iron or a similar technology and are about 1.45 V per cell. "Lithium-Ion" cells are mostly what we use in our phones and other gizmos (some cheapo cells are NiMh) and those cells are about 3.6V per cell.

There is a somewhat standard Li-Ion form factor for those designers willing to use cylindrical cells: for example the 18650 is fairly ubiquitous, about 2000 MaH. My HP Jornada uses 2 of them in series and will run about 6 hours with WiFi disabled.

Multi-User?

[bats]

This would be a great gizmo to sit in the kitchen for checking stuff on the web far away from the office and the real computers.

But does it do multi-user? I'd really like a web tablet that did basic email and web with multiple accounts via some kind of fast user switching interface. Oh well, this probably isn't it.

First Reaction...

[aaarrrgggh]

The form factor is nice, but they sure could have used a better scrolling mechaism. A touch-pad strip along the side of the front face could be much more flexible... and allow for right or left hand operation easily.

The device looks like something a lot of people could use. I wish Nokia luck with it... (and secretly hope that Apple comes out with a better version before Nokia gets to market...)

Zaurus Port

[WJMoore]

So this is based on X11 and Gtk which makes it somewhat more appealing than the Qt Embedded that the Zaurus uses. However the Zaurus has a keyboard, better connectivity and storage options. So I'm thinking that since maemo is open source a Zaurus port wouldn't be out of the question and quite useful.

Re:Ogg vorbis support? What about Nokia 6600?

[Wooky_linuxer]

Mine decodes Oggs just fine, through Oggplay (symbianoggplay.sourceforge.net/). It's done using the DSP AFAIK. Can't see why this beauty wouldn't. The 6600 sports an ARM9 CPU too, running at 104Mhz.

Gnome based? Minimo???

[edxwelch]

Is the UI gnome based then? And the browser? Anyone know which browser they use? Could it be Minimo?

Re:Gnome based? Minimo???

[wheany]

They use Opera.

Re:Gnome based? Minimo???

[edxwelch]

pity, no adblock :/

Re:reformat (was: Re:Take a Maemo)

[Doc Ruby]

Moderation -1
100% Troll

TrollMods are going nuts today - that mod isn't even valid, let alone "fair". Probably another Slashstalker, sleazily modding my posts "Troll" without even reading them. Metamodding really needs some teeth.