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Deadly Version of Bird Flu Found in Romania
CMan0 writes "The BBC reports that a deadly version of the bird flu has been found in Romania. Several ducks and chickens have died on a farm in Romania this month of the disease, it has been confirmed. It's mentioned that the disease is spreading very rapidly, as the last known location of the disease was Siberia, Mongolia, and Kazakhstan in August and the 1st of October in Turkey." From the article: "People appear dazed by what is happening, but since it was confirmed that this is the strain of the bird flu virus found in Asia, they have begun co-operating closely with officials sent to collect their birds, our correspondent says. Turkey has already reported the discovery of the lethal strain of the virus among birds in the west of the country. The EU has banned imports of live birds and poultry products from Romania and Turkey. EU veterinary experts said on Friday that the bird flu outbreak did not represent a risk to the general public 'at present'."
First famine.
Then Tsunami.
Then Flood and earthquake.
Now a plauge.
Which part of the bible is this again?
Having the farmers hiding their birds from the government isn't helping. They're trying to protect their property, but in the end they'll end up causing many more to die.
Also, with migratory ducks and swallows (of the laden variety), we're going to see this all over europe in the coming weeks.
Jerry
http://www.cyvin.org/
It should be noted that the dead birds are from an area next to the Danube's Delta, which is the biggest delta of Europe, and where millions of wild birds from many species live or pass through on their migration route. It is therefore little surprise that such a busy nexus was touched by the virus. As far as I know, this particular virus was not thought to be dangerous to humans as such, but the possibility if it combining with the human version was the concern.
keyboard not found! press any key to continue...
Ladies and gentlemen, we are awaiting the appearance of Chicken Little for her weekly news statement...... hold on..... word has just been released..... Chicken Little has been destroyed to prevent the spread of the avian flu after her recent visit to Romania. Perhaps this time the sky really is falling.
As much as I hate to hear about these things, I cant help but think "Oh no I just had a BIRD FLU over my house..." ah.. ahaha.. hehe... argh.. OK! I'll shut up! But it was funny last night when I was at the bar.
I guess that will heavily affect RFC2549 services - IP over avian carrier.
Do you remember when CNN alerted about the super-computer virus that seems to be the end of the world?
This could be the same, I suggest to follow specific sources instead of general news-media. With computer security, you now AV companies, Secunia, CERT and so on.
For this, my bet is: http://www.fas.org/promed/
DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
This response in Europe can be eqated to the little dance that boxers and wrestlers always do before a fight, just circling around, testing each other, somewhat afraid to hit the other.
So, if we don't hit the opponent, to the tune of billions of dollars of fast-track pharmaceutical research, and immediate and strict quarantines, we are going to get hit first, and it will cost us dearly.
These bloody poultry farmers, solely financially motivated, need to be brought down off their high horses, and realize that this isn't Mad Cow.
Turkey has the bird flu?
/thats all I have. Not very good after all.
South florida in the winter time fills up with birds migrating from all over. What i want to know is are there any migrations of birds from overseas such as africa and such?
Will they bring it here this winter? the migrations have already begun and im seeing alot more birds around. Also chickens are allowed to roam the streets in downtown miami and key west in addition to the farms out here. If the migrating birds pass this onto the free roaming poultry you will have contaminated chicken feces here and there that would be in close proximity to people on a regular basis.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
I am deeply saddened to see this comment coming from someone who has invested himself in higher education. Perhaps before they fill your head with all that troubling knowledge they should encourage skeptical thought?
There are much more devestating agents that would appeal to those that wanted to strike a civilian population. Do not let your paranoia trump your common sense. The evil-brown-people do not want to eat your babies.
Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!!! There's a slight possibilty that this virus could mutate to pass from a bird to a human. And if that happens there's a slight possibilty that the virus could then mutate to pass from human to human. And if that happens there's a slight chance of a pandemic along the lines of the 1918 spanish influenza occuring, which had nothing to do with Spain, and the fact that it achieved such a high death count in the very year WWI ended was entirely coincidental. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS DEADLY REGARDLESS!!
I call bull on the bird flu hype. It's likely this disease has been around for a much longer time that it has been fashionable to run frantic news reports on it.
You know the hype is overblown just a wee bit when the government has to tell people to calm down.
Take a Lemsip, chicken soup(no pun intended), some antibiotics, get a lot of rest and you'll be fine. I'm 99.9% certain. Remember SARS? Yeah, it's kind of hard to trust the doomsayers after that paticular fiasco.
Bird Flu. Give me a break. Fatal Traffic Accidentitus. Now THERE'S a killer. 40,000 every year in the US alone. Are you scared to sit into your car every morning? You aren't!?!
May the Maths Be with you!
There's a Flu Wiki that's a good starting point for information about avian influenza. For people who want to follow the news more closely, they can wander over to this discussion board.
(a) no surprises yet - you can't stop migrating birds - especially during migration season; /. is the place you're finally hearing about this - we need to talk.
(b) if
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
and then you can hike up prices again. Great!! But seriously it's a containable issue, no need to fret. Just choose cautiously (when you'rev buying chicken). Or turn into a vegetarian.
Scott McNealy to Michael: "Suck my Sun!" Michael Dell to Scott : "Lick my Dell!"
There have always been famines, tsunamis, floods and earthquakes in any given year. Very convenient for those that think the end is near. They always think the end is near. The end has never been near. The Bible is just an early example of a news outlet that wants eyeballs. And if you want eyeballs, if it bleeds it leads. The bird flu is a big problem, but I think the threat to humans is over-hyped by the media. Remember all those stories last year during the vaccine shortage that had all those geezers in long lines? How did that hype-fest turn out?
So forgive me if I am underwhelmed by a web site that quotes ten year old research papers and where the emerging deseases pages don't list (any strain) of influenza and hasn't been updated since April.
Think global, act loco
their beliefs are already confirmed about allah embracing their movement after hurricane katrina damaged the oil infrastructure in the gulf.
Their faith would be further strengthened by a bird flu epidemic devestating western countries.
Honestly though. Their society is healthier than ours. Our birthrates are dropping like crazy because people here have better things to do than have children. They have a more unified way of thinking which is more powerful than many individuals all pursuing their own interests. See recent american war protests for examples. Our society is also growing ever more calcified in red tape as corporations control it.
My idea was always that the more zealous a civilization is around their religion the more powerful and productive a society will become once it starts to loosen up a bit because it will be incredibly disciplined. Eventually when all the taboos are gone, theres no juice left and it falls apart. Perhaps extremist muslims are simply the new puritans.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
um, how about "you're an idiot"?
The most doom-laden worst-case scenarios I've seen are 50,000 deaths in the UK (i.e. about one in a thousand people), with the death-rate disproportionately borne by the very young, the very old, and those with impaired immune systems. An appalling tragedy should it happen, but a long way off the end of the world as we know it.
Not mentioned in the article is how the flu is actually turning birds into vampires. Seriously.
adventure-today.com
BAH !!!
Wake up guys
Does any one know daily raito of iraq civillian deaths ?
I work for Turkey biggest Poultry producter for 5 years.
This is noting. No body
I REPAT NO HUMAN DEAD BECAUSE OF THIS.
Just some Turkey and some Chicken.
Also this can be biological attack from somwhere.
Wake up guys
In Pakistan ther was 40.000 dead
more than 3.3 millon home less.
Winter was coming.
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
Deadbolts on appartment. Check...
Month supply of food and water. Check...
Loaded shotgun with a month supply of ammo. Check...
Ya, the world will shutdown. But fuck it, I don't want to catch this bug. I will stay low!
Life is not for the lazy.
McDonalds is introducing a 2 for 1 Chicken McNugget promotion
ATCHOO!!! First came Mad Cows. Now mad birds (with the FLU). ATCHOO!! Excuse me, think I have a cold. ATCHOO !! TWEET TWEET! ATCHOO !!
I love my RFC2549 service, no bandwith limits at all!
Shame about the latency.
For "the terrorists"? What terrorists?
All I see 'round these parts are Americans letting themselves get deathly afraid of "the tur'rists" at every turn and surrendering their rights because of it.
Mikey-San
Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
Unless you are a poultry worker or otherwise handle wild fowl you are not at risk. This disease is spread bird to man but not man to man.
If a farmer wants to protect his livestock from being destroyed he's being nuaghty but he's not directly endangering that many people in that single act. It's stupid and socially irresponsible. But it's also not something that is that out of line with common practices in other areas.
There are a variety of zoonotic diesaases that can be transmitted to animal handlers and we don't panic over those. Most Flu's in fact come from Bird's via pigs. And many of those, unlike bird flu, can be transmitted from man to man.
There's loads of prarie dog and mouse diseases with high fatality rates in human's like Yserina Pestis or Hanta Virus. Yet we don't all wear bunny suits when we put out mouse traps in your houses. The people who vaccum prarie dog warrens to transplant them are actying just as rashly. Pox viruses can be caught from animals and have killed more humans than all viruses in histroy combined.
Yet we don't panic over these. This is all rubbish except to the poultry industry workers and owners. Not that the farmer's should not be prudent and do the right thing and slaughter their animals. But they have a right to ask not for an over reaction or excess culling.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Although we have advanced technologically since the last serious epidemic and are able to communicate effectively allowing people to take precautions, there exists one serious difference between modern Western society and previous. Our ultra clean lifestyles of the last 50 years or so mean our imune systems have not faced the daily bacteria count of previous generations. While we may appear healthier and wealthier, are we really as robust?
VIRUS IS NOT BACTERIA. Viruses are always, constantly, wildly mutating, always have, always will be. The viruses out there today are not the same that roamed the land 50 years ago. As a result, our immune systems are not adapted to what our grandpa's was.
It makes NO difference how "tough" you are. We're talking about an unexpected random mutation producing a particularly deadly virus. It can happen anytime. Sometimes, quite seldom, thank God, other factors appear which make it even more dangerous, such as ability to spread using wildlife.
The interesting thing, for me, is not this fact. This has been known for decades. No, the truly interesting fact is that despite all our knowledge, the solution is still hampered by our economic models and by good old greed.
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
The relevant quote from wikipedia:
Vietnam and Thailand have seen several isolated cases where human-to-human transmission of the virus has been suspected. In one case the original carrier, who received the disease from a bird, was held by her mother for roughly 5 days as the young girl died. Shortly afterwards, the mother became ill and perished as well. In March, 2005 it was revealed that two nurses who had cared for avian flu patients have tested positive for the disease.
Sourced from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H5N1
It's not apparently easily transmittable, but it does seem transmittable.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
How easy? Simply infect themselves with it AND a normal influenza virus which is contagious. What is needed is a virus that is able to spread easily. Since they have already shown that they have no issue with their own death, it is likely that it will be done.
Now, how do they know that it happens? Simple. Place somebody in the room who does not have the flu. Once infected, check it.
If it is H5N1, then infect the carriers and send them on their way. Walking through airports is a very good way to spread it. Also small movies theaters, performances, indoor sporting events, and busses (such as greyhound) will be easy targets.
If it is not H5N1, then infect them with it as well and try to get the recombinate.
Of course, you could grow it in human cells, but you do have to have the knowledge and the material (FBS is expensive and is almost certainly being tracked at this point).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The Plague of Justinian was possibly the most devastating pestilence of the ancient world. Lasting fifty years, it arrived in the Imperial capital, Constantinople, in 542 A.D. Mortality in the city reached as high as 10,000 per day. Ships were loaded with the dead, towed out to sea, and abandoned. Fortification towers were unroofed, filled with corpses, then re-roofed.
The most famous pandemic was the Black Death, which, like a lot of the perturbations that perennially rattled the cage of Western Civilization (Aryans, Mongols, Huns, Turks, gunpowder, etc) originated in Asia. From 1346 to 1361, the epidemic killed up to one-third of the population of Europe.
The last pandemic ravaged Europe in the seventeenth century and is best known to us as the Plague of London, 1665-66. This is the one chronicled by Samuel Pepys in his diary (which most of us didn't mind reading in high school because of all the sexual content). Since the printing press was now available, this was the first epidemic in which the populace was kept thoroughly informed of the latest in cutting-edge medical knowledge. One pamphlet informed its readers that the plague was caused by "eating radishes, a cat catter wouling, immoderate eating of caviare and anchovies, tame pigeons that flew up and down an alley, and drinking strong heady beer." Rumors that syphilis prevented the disease caused the gentlemen of London to storm local houses of ill-repute. English physicians apparently knew better; many just left the country.
Ed Uthman, MD
Pathologist, Houston/Richmond, TX, USA
As an example of what can occur when an avian (or any animal really) strain of flu jumps to humans can be seen in the Great Flue Epidemic of 1918 aka. the Spanish Flu that killed more people than WWI. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Flu) it is believed that the flu originated in Fort Riley, Kansas (yes, it is somewhat ironic that this place is one of the strongholds in the US against evolutionary theory) when a strain of avian flu jumped to humans. Scientists who reconstructed the virus believe that it passed directly to humans from chickens at Fort Riley. The popular story is that a cook at Fort Riley had the normal human flu when he was preparing a chicken that had the avian flu. This is the nightmare scenario that people with respect to the current bird flue crisis. It is estimated the the Spanish "Bird flu" infected 20% of the population (in the US 28%) and killed 2.5-5% of the world's total population with some entire towns being wiped out.
uh oh it's gonna get MORLOCK.
How easy? Simply infect themselves with it AND a normal influenza virus which is contagious. What is needed is a virus that is able to spread easily. Since they have already shown that they have no issue with their own death, it is likely that it will be done.
First of all, the possibility that a combination between the H5N1 and the "regular" influenza virus might combine in a new strain with the capabilities of both is just that, a possibility.
Second, biological warfare has always had one major flaw: viruses can't tell friend from foe. To them we're all just dumb, slow, cows to feed off.
If terrorists wanted to start a biological war they'd have had already done it. A human mind with a laboratory can produce something much more deadly than H5N1, which appared randomly in the wild. Why haven't they?
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
Avian flu is dangerous because people get if from eating livestock and then spread it to other people.
From the BBC Health website: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3422839.stm
There is nothing more practical than a good abstract theory.
http://www.studio2f.com/misc/2005/10/13dead_ducks_ bird_flu.php
"No human cases of bird flu have been linked to eating poultry"
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00566.html
In regards to madcow though I would like to state that my whole family stopped eating beef since the first suspicions regarding the illness in cattle in this country. My grandmother's sister Caberia Hind died at St. John's hospital in Santa Monica, California and was never counted in the official statistics regarding variant-cjd despite that being the diagnosis that came back after they shipped her head to the CDC for analysis. I am not making this up. This occurred in the mid 90s.
They claimed she had acquired it from her europe trips where she traveled frequently. If i recall correctly they CLAIM the only person to die in the united states acquired it overseas and died in florida. To this day we're still seeking an answer as to why she was never counted in the official record.
My family after seeing the horrible death Caberia went through decided they were better off without the risk of eating beef.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel
People should be concerned and governments should be taking actions. And people in US should be concerned their government is lagging in preparation. Let me give some facts. The flu from 1918 (the Spanish Influenza) had a mortality rate b/w 2.5% and 5%. It killed over 20 mil people and virtually all people on earth had had it at one point. It circled the globe in less than 6 months. Thats in 1918. It is determined that it was an avian flu strain as well. All the flu viruses that we get each year are thought to be a variant of the spanish Influenza virus, to which we have some immunity and therefore the body's immune system reacts faster. The H5N1 (avian flu) has a mortality rate of over 50% so far! I dont know if you realize what that means. 50% combined with the way flu viruses spread. In a matter of 3-4 weeks we could have a third of the US population getting sick with half of that third dying! You do the math. And the hospitals and the medicine stockpiles will last you for about nothing. The vaccine being developed for it is promissing but there is no guarantee it will work on the strain that will cause the pandemic. Here is a twist. To mass-produce a flu vaccine, companies use chicken eggs. But its an avian flu and kills chickens. So that doesnt go smoothly. Other methods of producing vacines are years away and still in research. There are 2 drugs that can help you fight it - Tamiflu and Relenza. Latest reports are that H1N5 is showing resitence to Tamiflu. In Japan, where Tamiflu is wildly used for fighting regular flu, reistence rate is also high and raising. Government estimates we have enough stockpiles of Tamiflu to threat only 2 million people with another 800k on the way and 2.5 on order. You want more bad news? They all work fine and dandy if you are already taking them as preventive measure *before* you get sick. If you get sick and start taking them, their effectiveness drops becuase the multiplication rate of the virus is so high (Tamiflu works by blocking a key protein of the virus (neuraminidase) which is involved in the spreading of the virus).
I keep being told that I am surrendering rights, but I can't quite figure out which ones. Please list specifics and not LLL talking points. Thank you.
This news has been around for a few days now. And the chances are that if the H5N1 virus has only just been detected in Romania and Turkey then it's been around for a while and can be expected to have spread much more widely than that already. It's just that no one has yet noticed it. Well they'll starting looking now.
More worrying news is that if the virus mutates into a killer flu, then there are real doubts as to whether the only and standard-issue anti-viral drug (Tamiflu) will actually prove effective. In addition, even modest stockpiles are not expected to be available in some places till 2006 at the earliest.
Culling the vast majority of poultry (90 per cent or more) in Europe may be an idea, though governments are so in thrall to farming lobbies this will likely never happen. Considering the conditions in which most birds are kept and the disgusting products they are turned into (chicken McNuggetts, etc.) this would hardly be a great loss.
Las qué passoun
tournoun pas maï
The poultry farmers aren't just motivated by money. Poultry to them, especially in some of these poorer nations, is what provides them their ability to live.
I don't think you would like it much if your nation's government came along, proceeding to confiscate and destroy your computers, even those running Linux or OS X, to prevent the spread of a computer worm. Now remember, you most likely could get by without your computers, unlike many of the poultry farmers.
Perhaps the richer countries should purchase these birds at market prices, and then proceed to destroy them. It gives the farmers incentive to get rid of the birds, and helps ensure a greater number are destroyed. It costs a bit of money, but probably far less than if the flu were to spread.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Unless you are a poultry worker or otherwise handle wild fowl you are not at risk. This disease is spread bird to man but not man to man.
Not yet. But what's keeping the scientists and politicians across Europe awake at night is the possibility that someone already infected with human influenza will contract H5N1 and it will mutate. The message we're getting from the scientific community over here in Europe is that it's not a case of if, but when. Its being taken so seriously that here in the UK plans are already being explored by Government on what to do when the first cases of human to human transmitted H5N1 arrives. Depending on how fast the virus spreads and how fast we do or don't react to it, the death toll could be anywhere between 50,000 to 750,000 people. Here's another BBC Article on the subject, published just today !!
From the obviously-ancient-topnews section;
Bush gets reelected as President for his second term!
Giant-Tsunami hits the Pacific Ocean!
Time Warner aquires AOL Online!
now all they need to do is fork the DNS and split the internet, that way there will be a quick and free flow of information. Keeping people informaed is the only way to pervent disaster
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
okay...well i live in romania (the north-eastern part, so nowhere near the infected areas)
this is in now way news...it's been on the local news for the past days (weeks even)...i've also seen a few reports about it on cnn...
the locals aren't trying to protect their birds...they don't want to risk it. the gouverment has promised to pay for the birds which are being killed.
This sounds like a job for a hot bowl of chicken soup and- oh, wait a minute...
The best way of avoiding Asian Flu is to maintain a regular pattern, getting plenty of sleep, eating well, and taking part in moderate exercise. Good personal hygiene will reduce the risk of but not necessarily prevent contagion. The virus has a high chance of being fatal if your immune system is weak, as may be the case with the very young, old, or physically weak.
I guess Slashdot is going to see a sudden drop in readership REAL SOON NOW(TM).Your body attacks it, your lungs fill with liquid and you die. Those who are very young, old, or with unhealthy immune systems will survive it. The 55% mortality rate is acros those who've gotten it so far. The mortality rate of a healthy person is around 80%.
SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
Remember all those stories last year during the vaccine shortage that had all those geezers in long lines? How did that hype-fest turn out?
Or how about SARS...which was a lot of hype over nothing?
Or West Nile..which was hyped up, but barely killed anyone?
Or Dan Rather's documents about Bush that turned out to be fake?
Or the reported rapes and murders that supposedly happened in New Orleans, which turned out to be false?
Or the news reports that said there could be 60,000 people dead after Katrina...and it turned out to be about 1200?
Or the deadly/toxic water in New Orleans that turned out to be not much more harmful than their rain run-off?
And that's just recent stuff that I can think of off the top of my head.
So excuse me if I don't seem too concerned about this whole avian flu thing.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
Well, a number of reasons. The first is that they easiest disease to use are also the easiest to stop. Consider Y. Pestis( Black Death/ Plague/etc). It wiped out something like 1/4 of Europe in 10 years during the middle ages. Interestingly, the Europeans made heavy use of it for biological warfare. But the problem is that it is a bacteria and they are possible to control (antibiotics).
So you are left with Virus (and possibly prions).
Most of these that we fear are the fast killing. Most forms of haemorrhagic fever is nasty, with Ebola being the worst. But it is also so fast acting, that it is easy to stop. A short quarantine is all that is needed to know who has it and who does not( you can then quickly isolate those that have it).
So what is needed is something that takes a while to take hold or whose symptoms mimic others diseases. Avian Flu is, sadly, about the best choice that they have, since it appears to be one of many other flus that may run around (why is that person sneezing? send them home NOW; it will be a killer on our economy).
Another nasty example of a possible killer would be to make HIV transmittable via a sneeze. If that ever happens, then the world will have major issues, since it takes so long to know that you have it. IOW, you could spread it for a year before it becomes known.
Perhaps the scariest is Smallpox. When I was a child, I was inoculated against this. There are other here that will also have been inoculated. But we are far and few in between (besides, that was long ago, and the virus may have shifted). There are stockpiles in the world of this virus (in the USA, Russia, and it is thought, a few other places). If this is every released, there will be hell on earth. The number of deaths will be quick and high. By the time that we realized what we were up against and could take action (vaccinate), we would already have lost 1/4 of the world population.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Ah, sorry my mistake.
I'm seeing a lot of people trying to spread calm in this thread by assuring everyone that it isn't so bad. You'll have to excuse me if I listen to groups like the World Health Organization over some random guy on Slashdot. The WHO has quoted death tolls anywhere between 7 million and 100 million worldwide, depending on the lethality of the strain when (not if, but when) it mutates.
The virus HAS spread person to person in a few instances, despite what people on here are saying. However it has not mutated to a form that can be EASILY transmitted from person to person. Most of the experts agree that this will happen, although they also acknowledge that the strain probably won't be as lethal when it mutates, which is good. It currently has around a 50% mortality rate, whereas the great Spanish Flu pandemic that killed so many people earlier this century only had around a 5% mortality rate.
Think I'm being alarmist? Here's what one acknowledged expert in the field says: "In our lifetime, we have not seen a disease sweep through a community and people die so fast that there's no one to take care of them at the hospital and there's no one to bury them," says Dr. Greg Poland, chief of the Mayo Vaccine Research Group at the Mayo Clinic College of Medicine in Minnesota. "That's what will happen in a pandemic. It would be more deaths than all the world's wars in all of human history. All within the space of six to 18 months."
Flu pandemics happen all the time. Around every 30 years or so on average, and we're due for the next one. The current flu virus out there is one we are very vulnerable to, so naturally scientists are concerned (I've been following New Scientist coverage of the bird flu for the past year and a half or so, this isn't something new).
Panicking won't do any good. Neither will assuring yourself that everything will be just fine and that God will protect you. The reality is likely to be somewhere halfway between the best case scenario and the worst case scenario. If the virus mutates (as experts seem fairly certain it will), chances are someone you know and love may die from it.
Quick! Everyone who has a habit of smoking: After reading this Slashdot article, when you are worrying that you might catch this disease, go for a relaxing smoke.
Let's see ... still not able to transfer between human. BORING!!! Please wake my up when it mutates into something real.
--Flam
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers - Pablo Picasso
Are you reading the Japanese edition of "the" bible, where it says "tsunami"? Or are you just falling for the fortuneteller's fallacy, where open-ended descriptions of vaguely specified bad events are credited with "prediction" when they inevitably occur? It's certainly not the part of a bible where god comes back to save us - they always hold off on that one until after we give all our money and power to the priests. Let's not give away the farm to the oldest scam in the book, literally (puns intended).
--
make install -not war
in poultry futures...
Ah, lethal bird flu arrives just in time for Winter, when people shut ourselves together in close quarters, where flu is multiplied. Best take all our vitamins, especially vitamins C (1-4g:day) and A and zinc, which boost our immune responses. Chicken soup helps stay hydrated and electrolyzed, and reduces the stress which lowers our immunity. The more relaxed and well fed are the least vulnerable to disease. And button up when you go outside!
--
make install -not war
This exchange of genetic material between viruses is known as the "antigenic shift" and is believed to be the cause of influenza pandemics such as the 1918 Spanish Flu:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigenic_shift
"Antigenic shift is the process by which two different strains of influenza combine to form a new subtype having a mixture of the surface antigens of the two original strains. The term antigenic shift is specific to the influenza literature; in other viral systems, the same process is called reassortment or viral shift.
Antigenic shift is contrasted with antigenic drift, which is the natural mutation over time of known strains of influenza (or other things, in a more general sense) to evade the immune system. Antigenic drift occurs in all types of influenza including influenza A, B and C. Antigenic shift, however, occurs only in influenza A because it infects more than just humans. Affected species include other mammals and birds, giving influenza A the opportunity for a major reorganization of surface antigens. Influenza B and C only infect humans, minimizing the chance to mutate drastically.
Flu strains are named after their types of hemagglutinin and neuraminidase surface proteins, so they will be called, for example, H3N2 for type-3 hemagglutinin and type-2 neuraminidase. If two different strains of influenza infect the same cell simultaneously, their protein capsids and lipid envelopes are removed, exposing their RNA, which is then transcribed to DNA. The host cell then forms new viruses that combine antigens; for example, H3N2 and H5N1 can form H5N2 this way. Because the human immune system has difficulty recognizing the new influenza strain, it may be highly dangerous. Such combinations caused, for instance, the infamous Spanish Flu outbreak of 1918 which killed 40 million people worldwide. Influenza virus which have undergone antigenic shift have also gone on to cause the Asian Flu pandemic of 1957, the Hong Kong Flu pandemic of 1968, and the Swine Flu scare of 1976."
My good sir, that was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
However, given there's almost no evidence, and numbers like 50 thousand to 1 million in the UK alone are being bandied around, I wonder what Ladbrokes would take on spread bets? My prediction: based on the BSE ``scientists talk nonsense to secure research funding'' debacle, the actual deaths will be about 1% of the lowest estimate.
ian
Here is a very comprehensive FAQ that the WHO has published. To all those who posters who are questioning the severity of the threat: the FAQ indicates that 2 of the 3 necessary prerequisites for the flu becoming a pandemic have been met.
e nza/avian_faqs/en/index.html
http://www.who.int/entity/csr/disease/avian_influ
It's a rare example of a nerdish story of interest to the general population.
I'm not a big fan of hunting myself, but it sounds like your logic would also apply to keeping people out of nature altogether. While we're at it should we shut down the Appalachian trail, close down swimming holes, etc.?
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
It led me to this page as well as to a rather unfortunate article from the KKK.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
I am curious. Why is your ignorance and laziness to do a little of research a reason for accusing somebody of hype? This concept is something that I was taught in 6'th grade science (and that was in the 60's), so I would think that even today 6'th graders get it. This is just simple genetics. But more importantly, Google is available to you. Why not just google for 2 minutes before talking and insulting? others?
Editors, please consider the idea of putting a negative for plain nastiness. We seem to have lost the ability to conduct civil discussions here. If nothing else, look at ~ifwm as a good example of what is not needed.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The story of Dracula was written by Bram Stoker, who was born in Dublin (that's in Ireland, btw) on November 8, 1847. Your insulting attitude towards Americans is completely uncalled for and most likely stems from a self-fulfilling prophecy - "That person just made a comment I think is ignorant, so he must be American, which just reinforces my belief that all Americans are ignorant." If you want to ignore my comment, feel free this time to use the fact that I am in fact just an American. :p
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
...what makes a flu deadly? Obviously, most of us have been exposed to 'ordinary' influenza, and manage to come out with little more than a week or two of being miserable. I know these things are generally hard on the very young and the very old, but the humans that died of this Avian Flu were largely middle aged, right? Weren't some of them even in the hospital when they died? How does a flu cause that much trouble?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
WHy aren't people noticing that this is still a "potential" pandemic. The only recorded spread so far from human to human resulted in a much weaker strain. I am not suggesting tking this lightly, but I think it's being pushed to the public WAY too much. This should remain a WHO and CDC issue. They should quietly prepare with just a little public information. The amount of media time being spent on a so-far harmless bird-only influenza strain is simply amazing.
"Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect."- Steven Wright
Not only can't many of these farmers survive without their livestock, they probably can't be replaced. At best, they'll be replaced with the genetic freaks that are common in commercial agriculture in the industrialized world. At worst, most of the farmers will go out of business and be forced into cities and factories, to be replaced by a large agribusiness concern.
So-called "heirloom" breeds, animals well-suited for small farms because of their survival instincts and ability to reproduce, are quickly becoming a thing of the past. And it's more than just economics that is the cause.
The developed world is waging agricultural warfare on the developing world. One of the first targets in Iraq (accidentally of course) was a seed bank, containing thousands of species of irreplacabale genetic material, the lifeblood of agricultural progress and a threat to the manufactured livestock of agribusiness and rising biotech companies. Sadly, it wouldn't surprise me if the "bird flu" crisis were as manufactured as the reasons for the Iraq war.
Of course, it's not that these unique agricultural products can't be re-discovered, with the help of big genetics corporations of course. But those corporations certainly won't recover a genetic trait or a unique species without a licensing agreement, and yearly fees. Thus, the small farm is destroyed, by hook or by crook, and its operators forced either into urban life or having their profits perpetually taxed away by agribusiness.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
Hard to say anything from a single case. She may indeed have caught it the same way as her brother. I saw in another article that she hadn't started Tamiflu until after she was already ill, when it's not expected to work as well.
-- your Web browser is Ronald Reagan
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Human community when CDC confirmed that the Human population has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of its all time high, since the avian influenza pandemic. Coming on the heels of a recent UN survey which plainly states that Humanity has lost more population, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Humanity is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent United Nations comprehensive population count.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict Humanity's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Humanity faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Humanity because Humanity is dying. Things are looking very bad for Humanity. As many of us are already aware, Humanity continues to lose. Blood flows like a river of red ink.
First world populations are the most endangered of them all, having lost 98% of their population. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time World leaders Toni Blair and Vladimir Putin only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Humanity is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
United States leader George Bush states that were about 6.5 billion humans on Earth. How many Humans are there? Let's see. Before the Pandemic the number of Humans versus Troll posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 6.5 billion/5 = 1.3 billion Trolls. Troll posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of Slashdots posts. Therefore there are about 2.6 billion Trolls on Slashdot. A recent count revealed 2 Troll posts for every Human post. Therefore there must now be (2.6 billion/5 = .5 billion) Humans left
Due to the troubles of Washington, abysmal reproduction and so on, Humanity went out of business and was taken over by other primates who produce another troubled organism. Now Humanity is almost dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that Humanity has steadily declined in population share. Humanity is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Humanity is to survive at all it will be among organism dilettante dabblers. Humanity continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Humanity is dead.
Fact: Humanity is dying
This is why you don't need to worry.
The first outbreak was around New Year of this year. Please see:
d /29315/newsDate/2-Feb-2005/story.htm
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsi
This isn't new. But for them to have dug up bodies from the 1918 outbreak is unprecedented. I think that it might be a bad idea to resurrect these old vermin.
That is, publishing the genomic structures of these extinct creatures may provide a blueprint for murder.
Michael
So what this means is that if the bird flu and another strain mutate in one cell, there are hundreds of possibilities. You could wind up with a dead virus, a weak virus, a slight modification of the other strain that the body already has a defence against, a new virus that the immune system can adapt to, a new virus that the body can not adapt to(worst case). Even then, factors involving the virus' survivability outside its host could change dramaticly. How communicable is a virus that can't survive in a temperature under 95 degrees?
I think it's good to be prepaired for a worst case senerio, but in all reality, any two flu strains could merge and create a super flu at any given time, and any two flu strains could merge and die at any given time. So I really don't think its worth panicing, nor posting on SlashDot.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
You got it seriously wrong on that one - it's not the heads of state that dislike/hate Eastern Europe at all - it's the populace! People don't like the idea of cheap "Eastern" European labour undercutting their wages. The governments on the other hand love the idea of the economic turbulence they imagine is "development". Even worse the governments accept US/UK influence on the Turkish issue.
The Central and Eastern European countries that joined the EU have always been central to European culture - it's only the last 50 years behind the Iron Curtain that stopped them. Personally I welcome them back into the fold as valued Europeans - unlike the Turkish hordes once again attempting to invade and conquer Europe. When, oh when, will they get it into their heads that they're Asians Most Europeans would take Romania/Bulgaria [into the EU] over Turkey any time! The EU is not only a trading block - we're a cultural union as well. That's why we cannot accept the "bridge between the Muslim and Western world"-argument. We're not in the business of developing Asia/the Middle-East/North Africa under the EU umbrella. Turkey should look to it's neighbours for economic success, I'm sure they'll do well (seriously).
I call bull on this damn fool.
We're talking about a VIRUS. Antibiotics are not effective against viruses. (In fact, one of the reasons that common antibiotics are becoming less effective is the phenomena of dumb-cluck mommas who insist Junior get penicillin every time he gets the sniffles.)
So it's killed 60 people in the last few months. Passive smoking kills 30 a day. Why the big deal over the bird flu?
This article gives the ongoing status of the H5N1 bird flu and includes a short primer on flu pandemics. Disclaimer: I'm the author.
Check out Chad's News
" G.W. Bush is the smartest man she's ever met in her life"
She fails to mention that the only other person she has ever met is Paulie Shore
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
I won't really be worried about bird flu in humans until Rove is indicted and Bush needs a really bad catastrophe to distract everyone's attention or just declare martial law over.
...
1. Spread bird flu
2. Declare martial law
4. Grand jury records destroyed in 'restoration' attempt.
5.
6. Exxon profits
There is no step three.
While it is just a possibility by using true natural selection, this is much more than that. It may take 100-200 deaths, but it would succeed.
Second, biological warfare has always had one major flaw: viruses can't tell friend from foe. To them we're all just dumb, slow, cows to feed off.Not entirely. Virus can (and have) been designed to target specific traits of their vectors. There were reports (but no hard data) that middle east countries were working on virus that targeted just Jews. Considering that most Jews came from the middle east and are probably closest to the average Muslem middle eastern, that will be difficult. However, if somebody like Al Qaida (mostly middle easterners) were to target Anglo-saxens, then it would hit Europe, America, and Canada in one clean swoop. In addition, all Al Qaida has to do is sit in their caves and not interact with society for awhile. But they would deserve what would happen to them if they are caught (and you can bet that any US president during that time would not have the choice to play games with catching OBL). Gitmo (and the other prisons that we have) would look like children at play.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
So is this evolution taking place, or is the Intelligent Designer designing a virus that could potentialy wipe out a whole bunch of us?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
I see a lot of post that go along the lines of: "Doom sayer nonsense" and "over rated, nothing is going to happen."
Well you people are missing the point. There will be a pandemic. Its as sure a thing as earthquakes and hurricanes. If not the avian flu then some other disease. It happens every 100 years or so.
The point is that there are things that we can and should do that may lessen the effects of the next major outbreak. We need monitoring procedures put into place that will give us early warning of possible outbreaks. We also need efficient methods of developing and distributing vaccines for potential outbreaks. There are other things also.
I read one person's post who made the point that even the 1918 our break only kill about 5% of the population. Like that in some way makes the 50 to 100 million who died a smaller number.
I'm afraid that I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about man's ability to survive. I think we're just smart enough to see the dog shit in the yard but to arrogant and self centered to walk around it rather that stepping into it.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
I think it's good to be prepaired for a worst case senerio, but in all reality, any two flu strains could merge and create a super flu at any given time, and any two flu strains could merge and die at any given time. So I really don't think its worth panicing, nor posting on SlashDot.
This reminds me of that old joke:
"It's alright, I've never had any serious accidents while driving."
"You're only going to have one."
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
Is this just effecting 'food chain' type birds, or does it also hit more exotic pets?
Not saying it would be good to lose all our food poultry from our diets and dooming us to 2 choices of meats, but losing a pet can be devastating to many.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Absolutlely right! I'm organizing a flu immunisation program in my local area (South West UK), and we want to jab as many people as possilble. The vaccines wont do anything to protect against bird flu, but what we don't want is for someone to have both at once. If that happens there is the risk of the viruses 'interbreeding' and then you've got a much more lethal flu that goes human to human.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
So what this means is that if the bird flu and another strain mutate in one cell, there are hundreds of possibilities.
And millions of infected cells producing them. And viruses A and B re-infecting infected cells again and again to jumble it up repeatedly. Mathematics says we'll be unlucky, I'm afraid.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I already raided the australian factory, busted through the windows with my ak's and my flash bangs, stole about 4 cases of tamiflu and was gone.
There is all this media hype about the "Deadly Bird Flu!", how many people have actually died of it ?
.. (please correct me here my math REALLY sucks ) ..
60!!!
Out of a world population of 6.4 billion!
Thats,ooh let me see now
0.0000000009375% of the worlds population.
And that's classed as an epidemic ?!?
Most of the world will not have the level of care we have in the US, Western Europe and other advanced nations. They will be SOL and they will not get the treatments you describe. In 1918, the medical facilities in the US were completely overwhelmed. Even if we are able to handle a few dozen severe cases of pnumonia in a modern urban hospital, they cannot handle hundreds of sinultanious cases. So, the worst case could be truely terrible. Hopefully, we won't see a worst case, but I find it useful to overestimate how complexy nature can be and underestimate our 'power' over nature.
Think global, act loco
Good point talking about prevention. Here's how it goes in this case: the Romanian government finally admitted that the dead birds in the Danube Delta had died of bird flu. So they started to take measures. The first one was to kill all poultry in the area to prevent spreading the desease. Second measure was to quarantine the entire area and to force all cars entering and leaving the area to go through a disinfection process. Now it gets a little murky. They wanted everybody to do a vaccine so that they could prevent combining bird flu and human flu. Since Romania cannot produce enough vaccine on its own and right now it's a little late to start creating it, they turned to the biggest producers. They discoverred the entire french vaccine production has been bought by the US government. As far as I know, no case of bird flu has been found in the US yet.
So maybe you THINK you shouldn't care because disease only affects the weak, or the old... the 1918 pandemic had the highest mortality rate among 20 to 30 year olds, the healthiest segment of the population. Researchers discovered that this current avian strain has genetic similarities to the virus causing the spanish flu in 1918, as published in Science and Nature I believe.
No, of course, you don't see it. That's because Britain is just that little bit different from the rest of Europe. Are you really a part of Europe? You have a much more [non-European] multi-cultural society than most. Do you remember that total flop you sent to the Eurovision competition - Europe hated it, Britain loved it. For other reasons I believe that De Gaulle was right, the UK should never have become a member. You have far more in common with the US - culturally and politically. Perhaps you agree with me?
It's not Islam that's the problem - because I believe the largely Muslim Bosnia and Herzegovina should become a member. However that's a clear cut case of a European nation, clearly within the borders of what I consider Europe. Do you know why Bosnia is a Muslim nation? Turkey invaded that part of Europe - colonized and forced the population to convert. Of course that's not an argument against Turkey today - it's just an explanation why a Muslim nation is not incompatible with a European identity. Turkey has never had any European identity at all. I respect Islam and Muslims - however it's not a concern or part of the European Union project. That's what our Neighbourhood project is for.
Anti-viral meds to exist, and the British government is stockpiling the drugs, but I think they only have enough for a half* the population.
* - I think.. I did not RTFA.
Fight Crime - Shoot Back!
Mortality rates for this flu are right now at 50%. Passive smoking rates are at 30/6,000,000,000.
I believe that explains what the big deal is.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Quick to jump the gun and insult others, aren't we AC? Why are you so defensive? How could you know what I know or don't know?
"All these are the beginning of sorrows" (Matt 24:8) AC. Believe it or not. You have your own free agency. You choose what you will believe. I believe the summer is nigh at hand and that the bible is factually correct.
Go ahead. Have a temper tantrum.
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
Trolls post off topic and/or with no interest in the forum other than disrupting it into flames.
My post was not off topic. The thread was about the avian flu and the avian flu is being spread through livestock. Given that I don't think bringing up eliminating livestock is off topic, it is just an unpopular idea.
Pulling apart that "troll" label a little further I also have a significant posting history which anyone can see. It is obvious I am not on slashdot for the sole purpose of jerking people's chains.
My post may be modded down as low as it can go, but karma was and will remain "excellent".
The only thing the mods have accomplished in modding my post down is proving is that they have a low tolerance for views other than their own.
A sure sign of a provincial and narrow mind.
No offense.
Actually I have zero technical knowledge.
So what this means is that if the bird flu and another strain mutate in one cell, there are hundreds of possibilities. You could wind up with a dead virus, a weak virus, a slight modification of the other strain that the body already has a defence against, a new virus that the immune system can adapt to, a new virus that the body can not adapt to(worst case)
Yes, but if you have thousands or even millions of cells where this happens, you have pretty high chance of getting all the possibilities. The weak viruses won't survive, so you will be left with the strong and nasty ones.
AccountKiller
First: I do think you are nothing but a troll but there are many who honestly and earnestly hold your opinions. Perhaps they will read this and start thinking.
Daily ratio of Iraqi civilians dead: almost all caused by ignorant, xenophobic, theologically racist, triggerhappy morons in the name of Islam which they in no way represent (they can't have read or understood anything in the Koran, otherwise they would realize they are blasphemers). What else than a blasphemer can one call someone who says they kill in the name of a God when that God says that killing another person is like killing a universe, that the person killing will be held responsible for the destruction of an entire world? Those who shout Allah Akhbar (God is great) when they hurt and kill others are probably reserved a special place in hell if the Koran is to be believed.
In other words: do you blame US troops for terrorists killing Iraqi citizens? How delusional is that?
Humans dead from H5N1: about 60 and a lot more would have died if one hadn't taken any measures at all - that is even if it doesn't turn into a man-to-man pandemic. If it does turn into such a pandemic only our preparations, enormous effort to find a cure, and the mercy of God will help us.
In other words: are you saying doctors and scientists, as well as health officials and just about anybody shouldn't do their best to prevent disease and death? Do you think it even matters whether or not it has a "natural" origin?
Biological attack? Since any disease is a biological attack I presume you actually mean that as in a military biological weapons attack. Do you believe the CIA created HIV? Otherwise you realize that H5N1 is completely natural and that similar viruses has appeared throughout human history (last really big one was the Spanish flu).
In other words: are you livining in your own little world of shadowy conspiracies made to order to explain all those things you either simply don't or can't understand or which in your opinion it takes to much of your time to educate yourself about? Do you believe you are well informed?
The earthquake in Pakistan is beyond the current level of human knowledge to avoid. One can prepare for it with building codes and organisation. After the fact one can help the survivors as much as possible. In either case what does not help is if the country is rife with bad blood and civil struggles, underdeveloped and engaged in a miniature cold war (with India) as well as a low-level hot one (terrorism), and has spent more money on nuclear weaponry than elevating the living standard of its population - that being said I recommend all to give to NGO's and the Red Cross Red Cresent (I have and I'm not rich, far from it this computer I use to write this is the most expensive thing I have ever owned).
In other words: do you think that humans are that powerful? Is there no limit to your hubris?
I do not believe you work in the Turkish poultry industry, I do not even believe you are a Turkish citizen. If you think you are a muslim I cry for you. If you think you are informed I feel pity for you. If you think you are awake, alert, and using your brain I think you are delusional.
So right back at you: wake up yourself.
this comment is provided "as is" and without any express or implied legibility or congruity [...]
Although not identified by the WHO yet, I was impressed by a piece in the online Asia Times about a month ago about how the virus had spread further and the author described several large scale die offs of specific wild bird species in specific sites in western China, Siberia, and also parts of India. I have seen that info nowhere else. Sorry, do not have the url.
Many wild ducks can carry it non-fatally (like skunks can carry rabies for quite a while and not die).
H5N1 is going to get out all over Europe. Swan species are going to be hit hard in numerous places. Anyone heard anything about mortality rates in geese. Also - does anyone have any ideas about what this will do to more Arctic summering species?
I just rented the Winged Migration dvd just a couple weeks ago. I viewed with a slightly different lens this time.
peace.
Mate. Can we PLEASE stop with the conspiracy theories??? If you can bring yourself to even suspect that the avian flu might have been manufactured by big pharma, what's next? We never went to the moon? Aliens built the pyramids?
As for the Iraq seed bank - get real for a second. It's WAR. The Yanks don't give two flying fucks what they are bombing as long as it looks good on Fox News. Stop seeing a conspiracy in everything - it's war (and worse, a war based on a monumental set of lies which they can no longer cover up, so it's bound to get even more senseless).
Not that this matters, but I am from Romania and would rather people talk about scientific facts and give sensible ideas on how to deal with the flu, rather than go on about evil conglomerates.
Come ON.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -- G.B. Shaw
Stuff That Matters.
infected bird tossed in a pen with one million healthy birds. all 1,000,001 birds are destoyed.
Chinese state media is claiming a new, low-cost spray vaccine that could protect birds from the H5N1 strain has been developed. Let's hope this is for real. http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L15489494 .htm
I heard on the news this morning that the virus has mutated as well in Vietnam(?), and that the the drugs that some govts are stockpilling are ineffective against the mutation.
Sure it will. Just like the crazies on the far right used to say about Clinton. It was crap then, and it's crap now when you say it. Not just crap, but an insult to the American people.
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.
Sure it will. Just like the crazies on the far right used to say about Clinton. It was crap then, and it's crap now when you say it. Not just crap, but an insult to the American people.
Funny, I'm American and I find the current administration an insult to the American people. I guess this list of fourteen characteristics of fascism is also crap. Fascism could never happen here right? Sleep well with that assurance my friend.
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
Well, I felt insulted every day of the Clinton administration, so I guess that makes us square. But Clinton was no fascist, and neither is Bush. For you to argue otherwise is a gross display of your own ignorance and hysterical partisan shrillness, not to mention an insult to the memory of the victims of real fascism.
A new President will be sworn in a little more than three years from now, and he might even be a Democrat. You can bank on that. I'm a Bush man through and through, but I'd be out there with you on the barricades if he dared to try to cling to power after January 2009. Give your political opponents at least that much credit.
-ccm
Too much Law; not enough Order.
Bird flu, unlike passive smoking, can be transmitted from individual to individual.
If you encounter my wife (I'm a smoker), my smoke poses a statistically insignificant risk to you. If I have the bird flu, she has a high chance of becoming a carrier, and you have a non trivial chance of becoming infectd.
That sig is not supposed to make sense, it was made by following the instructions in someone else's sexually reproducing sig.
I am trolling
The comment I replied to stated that the person who wrote Dracula "probably didn't even know which continent Romania is on". If this doesn't imply American, then it's hard to imagine what would without actually saying something like "begins with an 'A' and ends with 'merican'". Sure, there are people in Europe who don't know what continent Romania is on, just like there are people in the US who don't know that New Mexico is one of our states. Nevertheless, it seems fairly clear to me what the implication was.
That is an interesting tidbit on the bats, though. Did vampire bats get their name before Bram Stoker's story or was the naming partly due to its influence?
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
So why haven't you been in a panic state of fear for the last 40 years?
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
I completely agree with your point, but have to point out this nonsense. Passive smoking doesn't kill 30 a day. There isn't even conclusive proof that it kills at all. Every time you hear these figures they are inflated higher. My bet is that your 30/day source is based on the completely discredited 1992 EPA "report", which they are still touting dispite there even being congressional inquests into it's falsehood. It wasn't even a real study, it was a meta-study. Which in terms of research is completely worthless as meta-studes can be summed up with "after throwing out all evidence to the contary, my results show...".
The BBC beats the crap out of American news media, but their science reporting is known not to be the best.
WHO and various organizations around the world are terrified that the avian flu will soon jump species. Similar events have happened before and many top scientists see it as very likely to the point where they do not take it as abstract "maybe".
This problem would not exist if people did not raise livestock in densely populated buildings, pens, and lots where disease can spread so easily.
Furthermore, more then a few livestock producers have been caught feeding vaccines to livestock, a practice that in America has rendered many antibiotics useless for human beings.
Raising livestock in densely populated facilities makes the disease a problem. Such facilities exist to make meat cheap enough for people to it all of the time. Most people do not need to eat meat at all. If you take sentiment and preference out of the equation the common sense answer would be to reduce such facilities as well as meat consumption.
I know this is a real virus, not a computer one. I DID the comparation NOT BETWEEN the viri, but between the way general media companies (like BBC and CNN) show specific information. Here in Slashdot, most people can understand when CNN gets wrong in computer security. What I wanted to say, is that the same WAY the news is missunderstood by big media about computer security, it happends with other fields, like emerging diseases.
Regarding the page I submit it as good source, I forgot to tell, but what matter most are the linksm like these:
* ProMED-mail Archives
* Medscape: Requires prior registration (free)
* WHO Outbreak News
The ProMED mailing list is a UP TO THE MINUTE news about outbreaks, and is even better that ANY medium because is not under any gov't suppervision and high queality information flows without censure (some countries wont happily release information that could affect them by several millons of lost of exports)
DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
Actually, I'm just commenting on your sig. Can you explain to me why you have it and what it means to you? Just asking... cuz I'm a greatgreatgreatgrandniece. :) Provable, too. :P - Jho
Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
> First, Bosnia nad Herzegovina is not a Muslim nation but a multiconfessional nation
Read my post again - it says "largely Muslim"... in other words not all.
> Second, Turks did not FORCE anyone to convert,
You seem to both disagree and agree with me on that, don't you? It still holds true that Turkey attacked and colonized the Balkans. I sympathize with Austria and strongly disapprove of letting Turkey in the backdoor after we kicked them out the last time.
>MAJOR modern, young, vibrant, righteous... blah
You do know that the Christian church is still the world's largest? I don't know what you mean by 'major' in this sense. Perhaps you meant larger than some minor church in Bosnia? It's of no importance regardless.
>Turks are nowadays (and for some time now) more European then some former Otoman Empire parts west
Exactly what is European? In my opinion that's for us Europeans to decide - and Turkey's not part of that community no matter what it wants to believe. If the Turkish army let their guard down the true face of the Justice and Development party would be revealed. As much as the well educated population of western Turkey might want to belong to a secular nation - I believe the truth is that a majority of Turks would rather have a more religious state. Religion is important here because a modern European nation is not ruled by such laws. The people are not European in geograpical terms either - when did the Turkmen (as in all of them) people suddenly discover their Europeaness? They have more in common with people to the east of Turkey. Face it, it's just a project that Ataturk in his foolishness invented to develop the country. Good for Turkey, but we're not interested.
>in some fields they dwarf even some of the "old
How can they dwarf anyone when the question is if they are European or not? You cannot eliminate another European country - it's not that kind of game. It's either a European nation or it's not.
What you think of the matter is of course not important since you're not European, from our point of view Turkey is not a European nation in any sense. Turkey doesn't take part in any of our cultural traditions and heritage - Christianity is central to the European spirit. It's where our values are founded and our laws built upon. No, I'm sorry to say that Turkey cannot ever become European - even by emulating us they'll always be outsiders.
>the bridge is nonsense
Right you are - they're not a bridge to the Muslim world. They're not even Arabs. So what does the US accomplish by forcing Turkey down Europe's throat? It gets to keep it's bases from which it can mount attacks on neighbouring countries. It has nothing to do with what Europe wants or needs - it's just America looking out for number #1.
>their potencial future economic and even technological/scientific contribution to Europe is not to be dismissed as insignificant.
I'm not saying they are insignificant - I'm just saying that I don't see Turkey a part of my Union. Trade is the least of my worries - it's about creating social unity so that we can move on forwards. The European Union is destined to become a federal nation - and I don't see it ever bordering Iraq/Iran. The US will continue to push for Turkey, but in the end Turkey will be rejected not only by the people but also the governments of Europe.