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Windows XP on Intel Mac Confirmed
niemassacre writes "According to winxponmac.com, the contest has been won - nearly $14k to narf2006 for submitting a working solution to dual-booting Windows XP and Mac OS X on an Intel-Powered mac. A thread on osx86project.org has confirmations from several testers that the procedure works on the 17" iMac, the Mac mini, and the MacBook Pro. Many sets of pictures and videos (such as this installation video) are floating around (and mentioned in the thread). The solution itself should be posted soon." Poit! Congratulations to narf.
Sure, from a geek perspective, this is mildly interesting, but not cool as we have known all along that there are no real fundamental architecture differences that would preclude this from happening..... so, I have a hard time understanding exactly why everybody seems so obsessed about this. I switched from Windows to the MacOS not because of the hardware, but because of the OS, so why would I want to run Windows on my Mac? And no, I don't care about all the games that are available on Windows.... no time these days.
The one place where I could see an advantage would be to run the occasional software package available on Windows, because under a dual boot environment, I am still prevented from sharing data between the OS's in a facile manner. So what would be impressive, is a transparent translation shell for OS X (like Virtual PC), supported natively in the OS that would allow me run apps, to cut and paste between environments and read/write to/from shared space without having to resort to separately booting or partitioning.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
But does it run Linux?
Now I can dual boot a good and bad OS. (I am not saying which is which!)
My friends, each of you is a single cell in the great body of the
state. And today, that great body has purged itself of parasites.
We have triumphed over the unprincipled dissemination of facts.
The thugs and wreckers have been cast out and the poisonous
weeds of disinformation have been cosigned to the dustbin of
history. Let each and every cell rejoice! For today we
celebrate the first, glorious anniversary of the Information
Purification Directive.
We have created, for the first time in all history, a garden of
pure ideology, where each worker may bloom secure from the pests
of contradictory and confusing truths. Our unification of thought
is a more powerful weapon than any fleet or army on earth! We are
one people. With one will. One resolve. One cause. Our enemies
shall talk themselves to death, and we will bury them with their
own confusion. We shall prevail!
-- Big Brother, Apple's "1984" commercial
Yeah this is great news! I'm a mac freak, but this makes an intel mac a great proposition as all my work stuff is Windows based!
Now all we need is for someone to make a hypervisor, or allow booting XP from within mac os without emulation, and we'll have a great system!
Does this version dual boot fully with Mac OS?
I'm sooo tempted to buy a Mac Book Pro now - my poor wallet.
Every time there's anything on this the first comments are along these lines. Fine! You don't want to play games or do any Windows devlopment - other people do! And this lets them. The end.
Games
Where can I get this? I haven't found any details or downloads yet...
A crap OS on an overpriced machine - surely OSX on a commodity PC is what we're all waiting for??!
I'd almost be tempted to buy a MacBook Pro if this works without any issues. It'd be nice to boot into Windows for my day job and OSX for home usage. The only thing really stopping me is the lack of a right-click button under the trackpad. I'm sure somebody can/has come up with a software hack to use two fingers to right-click, but I don't know how annoying that would actually be without using it.
The real question is, how does Microsoft & Apple feel about this?
LINUX ONLINE POKER: Linux Poker
I hope everybody who dragged this guy's reputation through the mud offers him a huge apology! Maybe it's just because I'm growing older, but the older I get the more cynical I feel like people are becoming. Maybe it's always been this way and when I was a kid I either didn't notice or just shrugged it off....
and a amssive congratulation to Narf. This was an exciting contest to watch develop and definately brought out a lot of talent. Now the question in my mind is will this have any affect on the new intel-mac sales; Will people be keen to buy them because they can dual boot windows/mac os x on the same machine? Recently I bought a mac-mini (before the intel ones went live sadly) and I have to say, having used winxp for years after two weeks of my mac-mini on a KVM I'm just about ready to move over. I can't actually imagine many reasons for me wanting a PC any more. I'm not into gaming like I used to be, and mac os x is such a lovely user experience. I admit it, i'm a born again apple fan-boi! What exactly is the situation on driver support for someone booting winxp on a mac? That's what I am interested in, anyone got a clue?
Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!
what we really need is for vmware for to produce an intel mac version of their product. Imagine being able to vm any linux distro or windows under osx...
Brain: Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking? Pinky: I think so Brain but where are we going to find rubber pants and sod at this time of night?
running Mac OS X on an elcheapo generic PC ! That would be useful !
Google passes Turing test : see my journal
It seems to me that native hardware will mean that we're not far from seeing a lot of really great "not-emulation VPC-like products." This is nice, but it seems that being able to have the two up side-by side would be more useful. Wouldn't native hardware also mean that a VPC could run at nearly full speed, only taking a hit due to whatever resources were already being used by the Mac OS and applications? Still, this is a nice achievement.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
So what would be impressive, is a transparent translation shell for OS X (like Virtual PC), supported natively in the OS that would allow me run apps, to cut and paste between environments and read/write to/from shared space without having to resort to separately booting or partitioning.
How you MIGHT get away with such, if any of the sides 'had some give'
Using Xen, Microsoft Windows or Apple's MAC OS X could be the host or guest OS
(Microsoft is doing their own hypervisor, and Apple has not said they are or are not going to support Xen)
IF Xen worked, you could use any of the VNC's and run the 'display the other OS' as your option, as most Apple software isn't X window compatible thus the Cygwin on Windows is not a useful option.
Giving a bit on Xen from Microsoft and X window-ing from Apple would make dual-OSing on the boxes a reality.
If operating systems had feelings, WinXP on a Mac would feel like a sperm cell in the anus.
Apple is happy. Now all those Windows users who want a Mac (more market share, yippee!) will buy a Mac and dual boot, yet they can still "try" to protect their OS from running a white box.
Microsoft is happy. They didn't have to spend any of their own money to get compatibility, and if they're lucky, maybe more than 30% of the dual booters will actually pay for a Windows license.
if you can run Windows on a Mac now, will game developers stop porting games to Mac, since Mac users can run Windows?
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
...a Mac that can boot OS X, XP, and Linux? Now that would be impressive.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Here's link to the XP on MAC video from a site which can handle a /.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nzH6OFpXgzI
use the coral caches. I can't believe they weren't coralised in the main post
. php?showtopic=11731c .mov
forum
http://forum.osx86project.org.nyud.net:8080/index
Video:
http://www.projectosx86.org.nyud.net:8080/winonma
Promote Charity on Myspace, Show Your Colours!
If now somebody figures out how to triple boot and add Linux then I will be able to boot a good, a bad and an ugly OS (and I'm not saying either which is which!).
ipods adapted so all audio output is in mono. Graphics on imacs converted to 16 color. Mac mouse to only have one button... oops.
I find this kind of funny and ironic...
Apple announces that they are moving to intel. OSX is DRM'd and bound to Macs so that it cannot be run on commodity hardware. Senior execs at Apple also state that they will not do anything to prevent Windows from running on their hardware.
Intel Macs come out.
Hackers get OSX86 up and running on Dells with relative ease, despite Apple's best efforts to prevent them from doing so. However, they have such a hard time getting Windows to run on a Mac that a contest is started and 13,000 dollars worth of prize money is offered.
Oh the irony. :-)
Kiteboarding Gear Mention slashdot and get 10% off!
Now that the public has done the work Bill's engineers should have done for Vista, he'll be able to sleep much better at night. /sarcasm
Using the Quick Time player on Windows XP it says required compressor not available (1st time I tried it also said not available on server)... what do I need?
There are people who want climb mountains and people who want to run XP on MacIntels, and both groups do it just for 'fun'!
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
if you can run Windows on a Mac now, will game developers stop porting games to Mac, since Mac users can run Windows?
Someone figures out how to hack Windoze to run on a Mac and now game developers are going to stop writing Mac games? How do you figure? When and if Apple decides to make this formal, then maybe developers will start thinking twice. Until that happens, there is nothing new under the sun here for the vast majority of Mac users (including the ones that game developers care about).
Wake me up when someone lets me run Windows binaries *inside* Intel OSX. That is the achievement.
Now we have to put up with Mac OS XP! Where will we put the Start button?
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
Did you really read the original (yesterday's) commentary on this? It looked like a basic peer-review process to me, albeit in true /. style. A person steps up, makes an extraordinary claim, and the community of peers does its best to suggest every possibility for falsification.
It took a while, but the truly hare-brained ideas (like a photoshopped image of a MacBook) were discredited leaving only a couple of reasonable possibilities (like a full-screen display of an XP screengrab image).
So honestly, would you really prefer that a peer-review process work from the premise that the proposal is true, as opposed to false? While the former is certainly much "nicer", the latter is more in keeping with scientific modes of thought. I'd have expected nothing less, had I presented the same claims + shaky evidence.
There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
why would you pay all that cash for a great workstation to just take it out the box & dump XP on it....come on please let go of the mouse, take 3 steps back, now ask your self 'do i really need this esoteric box of hi-tech gadgets'
Excellent work by Narf2006 and Blanka.
I don't understand why some people are so negative about something which gives the user greater flexibility and choice. I love using OS X for my personal needs, but my job requires Windows and CounterStrike:Source requires DirectX, so it's made my MacBook Pro even more flexible and that can only be a good thing.
Whilst I can imagine that some software producers will look at the situation and say "The Mac now runs Windows so we don't need to produce a Mac native version", I think the ability to boot Windows tears down one barrier to buying a Mac...if you have to run Windows then you don't need to compromise and buy a Windows only machine.
Finally, I know you can buy a regular PC and dual-boot with a hacked copy of OS X, but it's illegal, whereas dual booting a genuine retail copy of XP on a Mac is legal and that makes it a real option for the workplace. I look forward to taking my MacBook everywhere and leaving that chunky Dell on the table...someone needs to start producing 200GB+ 2.5" 7200rpm drives fast!
$2B OR NOT $2B = $FF
I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a Mac (a 8600/300 w/64 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to load Windows XP. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.
In addition, during this file transfer, Netscape will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even BBEdit Lite is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Mac that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Macs' faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 300 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Macintosh is a superior machine.
Mac addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
Looking at the video at the end he shows a device manager and shows it recognizing the hard drives and obviously the input devices. My question is what about the drivers like the network card and especially apples proprietary wireless? I know at one point even linux distros did not work with the airport cards. Until someone gets all the drivers available in windows, this is still only marginally useful.
If there is anything more important than my ego around here, I want it caught and shot now.
which fashionable and trend-setting color shall the Screen of Death be?
Dual booting is unpractical
- You have to stop everything on Mac OS (Linux, BSD, whatever) to get into Windows and vice versa.
- Data exchange between systems is horrible (common FAT32/ext2 partition? yikes!)
Being a fulltime Linux user, I know the pain. Now I have two machines sharing data over the network. That's the proper solution, unless you lack funds for a small x86 system. So, in conclusion, I don't understand what all this fuss is all about.
my 2 cents, of course.
It's common to market your weakness as a strength. As a loyal Apple Owner from 1981-1985 the Mac with is sealed case, lack of color, lack of expansion slots for innovations, lack of memory expansion (after all 128k was all the memory any user should ever need) to me was an attempt by Big Brother Jobs to control my computer world and brainwash me into thinking I was lucky to have no choices with the machine. Just click you single button and you will be happy.
.. I didn't mean it.. Please no Please Shots fired in the background screaming
In 1984 many of us Full-Color computer users slung a giant sledge hammer at the B&W dictator that was Steve Jobs and bought the Amiga. The only truly innovative PC to come after the Apple ][.
OSX users unite!!! Throw off the shackles of Jobism and embrace choice. Do something really Cool like run OSX on the PC or Notebook of your choice.!!! Be Free!!!!
Sound of door being broken down.....
No
I must sign off the Apple Thought Police have destroyed my home built PCs and tablet computer. They have chained me to this odd little white notebook that looks like a prop from "Buck Rodgers in the 25th Century..."
AKK! (Sound of pistol whipping)
Yes it is very cool. White and Silver are my friend... Whack!!! Ug yes one button is best.. Wack... Jobs is my God!!! I hear and I Fanboy... Microsoft Sucks Long live the freedom from choices Apple gives us so we can be creative!!! Long Live Jobs!! Long Live Jobs....
Can someone mirror the files? Please send me an IM - aim: sud01nm
-Colin
--------- I have no signature
My Imac Core Duo specs: Silent computer with superb scree and design, iSight included in the screen, OSX 10, Keyboard, Mythy mouse, Great software suit and so on.... for 1299.00 The price I paid, try to get COMPARABLE hardware and soft for the same price in the Windows World! impossible. The offer is quite good in fact, the OLD mac bashing about $$$ don't stant the road anymore, sell your hair blower and get a real computer!
Windows NT was built from the beginning to run on multiple processors, it had a very advanced hardware abstraction layer built in. The other versions never sold very well and there were problems with application support (e.g. people targetting multiple processor arch's). Apple has clevery overcome this obstacle by including "Rosetta" from the start, something similar existed for NT Alpha called FX!32 but I suspect by the time it was released it was too little too late to save the OS.
I'm sure that the HAL is in place in NT derived operating systems to this day and if MS were so inclined they could do another port. However, there's no real business need (as there is for Apple with their transition) so it's never been done. They target the largest installed hardware base.
The issue with getting Windows on Macintel to work is that EFI is so fundamentally different to the traditional BIOS XP expects that you require either the source code of the OS kernel to make it work or have to, as has been done here, provide essentially a bios emulator. This is nothing to do with portability or HAL's, it's about having access to the fundamentally low-level parts of the operating system, something people outside MS don't have.
I am NaN
Rather than talk about what Microsoft and Apple think, I'd love to see the marketing department at Dell today.
Moderation in All Things... Especially Moderation - gurutc
Apple would never want to support this or even make it easy. But this is a boon. Many people such as myself who wouldn't switch previously will now consider it. In fact I am certain, my next computer will be a Conroe Mac. I predict the cool machine next year will be dual booting Mac with Conroe. Reminds of the old days when hackers liked the Amigas with x86 module that could run Dos/Amiga/Mac software all at full speed.
Why this won't negatively affect SW developers view of mac sales:
The average Mac user is never going to set up a dual boot (especially given no support, difficulties involved) so this really won't impact software developer plans (ie they won't stop making Mac software). Even those who dual boot will probably prefer to have native Mac versions of software. In the end all Macs sold will be potential buyers of Mac software. That is why this is a perfect solution, no official support and difficulties make it something only those who MUST have it will do, so it will not have any significant percentage of people using a Mac, but buying Windows software for it.
Why this is better than booting OSX on a whitebox:
Booting windows on a Mac, is a legal solution. Apple has said they are not doing anything to stop it. So you can have legal OSX and legal WinXP on the mac and keep them both updated with ease. Also the Mac which has less HW support will be running on it's intended platform. Windows should have no problem running on the same hardware. Contrast running pirate/hacked OSX on the whitebox (the only way to do it) which will always be of questionable stability and a fight to upgrade without breaking it.
Way to go guys!
This frees the hardware and the software from the update cycle. It means you can keep using the Photoshop you have until you scrounge up enough dough to pay for a crossgrade (if you can find a crossgrade offer).
Everybody talks about games, but I see the thousands of dollars in software per computer in graphics, CAD and whatever also playing a role. Buying an upgrade for the platform you have is always less painful than trying to purchase all of those apps again. Then there is the issue of migrating things like Access databases to a Mac-friendlier product like FileMaker.
IIRC Macromedia was at least moving to a more agnostic state with their licenses, but if that will survive the Adobe takeover is questionable.
Does XP EULA say anything about hacking files together to get the thing to work? A lot of people are saying this is legal, but I doubt it.
Religion and politics, without the flame. godgab.org
Does a Mac exist that can actually run Vista's GUI? Being a mac man, I'm not too familiar with its requirements.
Well, 3D acceleration under VMware is on the way, according to_ d3d.html
_ d3d_enabling_vm.html
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound
It's in experimental stage, but looks promising.
The following link tells how to enable it for a given guest O.S.:
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound
Apple is working on this apparently. Doing some development on Wine to allow just such a thing.
I thought that story was on Slashdot a little while ago.
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
Getting OS/X on white box PCs was dead easy as the developer box was just that - a PC.
I'm impressed that it only took 3 weeks to get XP running on a MacIntel given the small number of people who have access to one.
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
When it was first posted on /. that someone claimed to do this, there were tons of people who were saying "OMG N00BS!!! IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE!!!" I wonder how they feel now?
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
Lordy! How many times do we have to answer this question?
"why would I want to run Windows on my Mac?"a) you want to use MacOSX, but sometimes want to play a windows based game
b) you have a job requirement to use a particular piece of windows-only software from time to time
Personally I fall into (b). My time reporting must be done on IE on windows. There simply is no other option, so once a week I have to log in to my PC for 5 minutes.
FlyAKiteOSX?
I'm thinking $14 grand would stand-in for an outpouring of apologies. It would for me :-)
:-D
From my point of view no amount of money could replace the satisfaction of watching somebody who questioned my honor or professionalism eat crow and offer a public apology. I'd actually pass up the $14000 if that's what it would take to keep my reputation in tact.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
So now what's to encourage companies to develop for OS X? Now that this works, won't many of them attempt to ignore OS X on the pretext that any Mac user who wants to use their software can simply boot into XP?
well the two main identities anyway, it's gonna take a lot to quite the rabble in the background
If you can boot Windows on a Mac, you're at least not out 2 or 3 grand if you decide you don't like OSX. Apple makes some nice solid hardware that doesn't have that flimsy feel that's so prevalent in the Intel market. Even so, a lot of consumers won't even look at them because they don't want to have to give up their software. Like that copy of Photoshop they pirated in 1993. Or that copy of MS Office they pirated in 1996. Or all their antivirus software. Being able to go back to Windows would allow them to try OSX risk free. And I think that once most people try OSX for a few days, they won't want to run anything else.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Does anyone have the ISO file or other download needed to make this work on the Macbook Pro? This would be cool to see. Dan
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
According to Intel documentation, using a CSM that plugs into the EFI framework should allow for booting BIOS-based operating systems:In the words of Jim Cramer, "booyah."
Why?
Games.
Does WinXP have drivers for the graphics card in the Intel Macs? That's the real question. If the graphics card isn't fully supported then it'll be difficult to play any modern game.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Hey, if you're looking for good cross-platform interface software, check out http://bitpim.org/. If your phone is supported, it'll run on your mac.
I work at a college and we have a windows license for Windows XP on all our computers. I wonder if this will cover our MACs?
A quadruple boot of OS X, M-Windows, Linux, and OS/2.
Again, not necessarily in that order.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
I'm wondering how long it will be before generic laptops appear that are purposely designed to run XP, Linux and a hacked OS/X with minimal compromises.
Using compatible cpu, graphics, sound, lan etc chips would avoid performance penalties and/or hacked ktexts.
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Now I have two machines sharing data over the network. That's the proper solution, unless you lack funds for a small x86 system.
Why do swiss army knives sell?
Having two OS available in a single portable laptop or BYODKM-box(*) where you may not always have a network by which to connect to another machine is the point. It reduces your burden of having to carry two expensive laptops.
For an iMac, it is less compelling.
(*) by-odd-kem? be-yod-kem? by-o-dickem? beeyod-kim?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
You mean 66th post right?
The good, the bad, the ugly, and the OH GOD MAKE IT STOP!?
(And yes, I too leave matching the categories to the OS as an exercise to the reader...)
Here's the .Torrent. http://exe64:6969/
Bye!
SeqBox
You forgot FreeDOS with Windows 3.11 installed!
...than two mouse buttons, IMO. You can easily scroll through a window just by moving two fingers on the pad. Also you can easily set up the pad to accept double clicks via tapping. Simplicity and elegance.
Perhaps a truly new operating system will come out of all this effort. It could be named OSWinXvista. Might be just the thing for the IT job market.
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
A Macintosh does not cost any more than a PC that is equipped with the same components in hardware (equal software) and equal OS.
Yes, I know there are countless numbers of people that can say, but I but a base laptop from [insert company name here] for $300, Apple requires you to spend [insert dollar amount here]. A PC allows you to buy less and spend less. Apple requires you to buy more and thus pay for it. The advantage of PCs are their configuration flexability to buy what you want and only what you want. It is NOT in their price. If that were the case then PCs would actually cost less than a Mac of the same components.
You can get an exact comparison benchmark of Adobe Phtoshop on the same exact machine!
FreeDOS doesn't have the hooks that Windows 3.11 needs.
So, MS-DOS.
1. Port WinXP on Mac 2. ??? 3. Profit
Windows XP Boots on a Mac? Nothing new here.
1 /
http://www.mathcaddy.com/windowsxpbootsonamac!!!!
as opposed to running Vista console-only?
No. Nobody does. Well, one guy does, but maybe if you'd read TFA you'd know that.
The typical person who buys a computer from Dell is not even aware of the competition to boot XP on a Mac, nor would they be very interested if they were. The typical response would be something like, "Why should I buy a Mac for $1300 to run XP, when I can get a Dell for $499 that will do the same thing, and get a free printer as well?"
The people who were monitoring the status of this contest wouldn't be caught dead buying a personal system from Dell, they roll their own and enjoy doing it.
~Philly
Where can I get this? I haven't found any details or downloads yet...
There's speculation that it'd be made into shareware for the general public, so the author can become fantastically rich.
Congratulations to narf2006 and blanka! Great Job!
f f41822abd80317ffeafc7788&act=Attach&type=post&id=1 804 (its a 1280x960 JPG image)
From the screenshots available on the osx86project.org website it seems that there's still a bit of work to be done: finding drivers!
Here's the Windows Device Manager on iMac Core Duo - http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?s=ab17121
The drivers that need to be (and most if not all will be) found are:
- ATI Radeon X1600 PCI Express video driver
- Ethernet 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit) driver
- Airport Extreme driver
- Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR driver
- iSight driver
- IR receiver driver
and possibly 4 other drivers (Bus controller, Chipset, etc.)
I don't know if sound works or not (sound devices aren't expanded in the image). I'm guessing that Firewire and USB 2.0 don't need drivers (Windows XP SP2 supports them out of the box usually)
And then the drivers will have to be found for similar devices on the other Intel Macs (MacBook Pro, Mac Mini)
It is very possible to setup a 3-boot situation seeing how Linux Beat Windows to Intel iMac.
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Godwin's_law
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
See Also: Quirk's Exception
Intentional invocation of this so-called "Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.
Therefore you, Sir, Fail...
Was going to be an iBook anyway, so i'm definitely waiting till the x86 iBooks hit shelves.
You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
It'd be nice to boot into Windows for my day job and OSX for home usage.
That was the original starting point for the prize:
I told my boss that this would replace my IBM desktop and I could boot Windows XP on it. I am still confident it can be done. I am giving $100 of my own money [snip] as a prize for the person / group that can make dual-booting Mac OS X and Windows XP happen on an Intel Mac.
But the real question is how did this win the prize. Based on the video, the computer, upon booting, went directly into XP, while the requirements for the prize clearly stated:
Your method, upon starting the computer, must offer the user to boot either OS X or Windows XP
Now THAT would have been impressive.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
As someone who flew through Houston yesterday, it sounds like the Christian extremists' manifesto. Greeting me as I landed, and repeated every 15 minutes thereafter, was an announcement on the PA system: "You are warned that any inappropriate comments will result in your immediate arrest".
And as you make excuses for this, a la the "security environment", understand you are playing into this manifesto. Because like the proverbial frog in the pot, you are getting used to this incursion, even defending it.
Thank you citizen!
Where's the Hitler reference? That was an Orwell reference, yo.
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I thought this was a site for geeks? What self-respecting geek doesn't have more than one computer? There's these neat things called KVM switches that allow you to share a keyboard, mouse, and monitor between multiple systems. So uh... who cares about dual booting in the age of cheap PCs?
More to the point, why would you spend large sums of money on a Mac just so you can run an OS on it that can be run on a faster PC for far less money?
maybe more than 30% of the dual booters will actually pay for a Windows license
;o)
A percent (%) character seems to have slipped in there.
Ballmer is still making his mind up about whether to throw the chair
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
no, apple could have made it easy. EFI includes something called the CSM. This is a system designed to allow legacy operating systems to boot. An EFI with this should be able to boot windows no problem.
Except Apple's version of EFI doesn't support CSM. I get what you're saying about them not wanting legacy hardware, but how hard would it be for them to include a CSM? If they thought that allowing windows to run on intel macs would have been beneficial, they would have.
As long as it's not as simple as inserting the Windows CD and grabbing a beer, do you really think that the average Windows user who wants a Mac will know how to go through this install? I think not. This 'big news' really only affects probably 5% of computer users -- the Slashdot crowd. You're not going to see "EXTRA! EXTRA! MACS CAN BOOT WINXP!" on the NYT front page tomorrow.
All those Windows users who want Macs are still going to save up and buy them.
While it IS a monumental effort, and quite the success... I still think this is not as cool as it could be for two reasons:
:)
1) While running XP on a Mac is cool, and definitely can be useful for those looking for diversity in application availablity in one box, there's the question of how ALL programs run on it. I have enough problems running all my windows apps on my XP box, much less on a dual-boot system.
2) And, while getting XP to run may or may not help Mac users who want #1, the truth is that in a couple years, we're talking about Vista, not XP. Therefore, while this is a huge step, it's still a step behind. It says quite a bit about what can be achieved, and likely, if XP can boot on a Mac, then Vista will follow. But I just wonder if this is all THAT useful in the long term. It's still going to always be a game of catch up, IMHO.
That's great, not we'll be able to run PC games on 2 years old video cards.
I don't many good reasons why anyone would "switch".
It's still overpriced and limited hardware, upgradability and all the rest.
Nah, DR-OpenDOS. I know that one works, if you can still find it.
Mirror of movie (quicktime .mov) showing XP on an iMac.
Mirror of directions (.zip) on howto install XP on a mac.
I had an Amiga. It loved to crash, and when one application died it would bring down the entire machine. Not even Windows 3.1 worked as badly (although Amiga multitasking actually worked, unlike Windows).
The Mac, with the first graphical interface in an affordable PC, was surely just as innovative as the Amiga, if not more so.
The Mac has had a two button mouse for what is it, six months now?
Admittedly, not on the portables, so I suppose you still have a point for the time being.
D
He'd only throw the chair of Google came up with the solution.
This is bad news for Microsoft because a lot of people have been hearing about how good OSX is, but didn't want to transfer due to legacy applications they have left on Windows and stuff.
Now they can transfer to OS/X without risk, realize that they did not really need Windows after all, and they won't buy Vista the next time around. It is a slow process, but the impact will be huge in the long run.
Microsot is not happy. Do you really believe they dropped EFI booting from Vista because they couldn't do it? Yeah, right.
Say I want to buy a Mac to dual-boot both systems. All Macs come with OSX, so by buying my new Mac I've bought that too. I turn it on, check it out, and suddenly I see a better OS than Windows up and running right away. I get to like it and I never buy that Windows license and don't dual boot after all, happily knowing that I could do it if it ever became necessary.
If Windows didn't run on that Mac, I'd never buy that Mac in the first place and would most likely stick to the usual PC/Windows combination. In other words, Microsoft would get my money.
(That's of course assuming I were a typical non-geek user. If I were to speak for myself, I might hesitate about the hardware (Macs look awesome!) but the software would be clearly GNU/Linux.)
I know it's just a proof of concept, but surely this is putting a 600cc moped engine into a ferrari?
flamebait? me? never.....
Can I install AROS as well?
http://www.aros.org/
that way I could quintuple boot
- a dream OS
- a good OS
- a bad OS
- an ugly OS
- a dead OS
I'm not saying what OS is a dream OS.
Do a google on "QEMU". It will run under various OSes and it will run Windows XP inside a virual machine. It is compatable with VMWare too a it wil run VMWare images. But it does more VMWare can only run on under Lnux and Windows on an X86 and it can only run X86 based VMs. QEMU is multi-platform and QEMU is GPL'd while VMWare is only free as in beer.
there's the question of how ALL programs run on it.
This isn't DOS, applications don't talk directly to the hardware any more. The NT kernel doens't even allow applications to access the hardware, so as long as the drivers are there why should there be a problem?
And who cares about Vista?
I'm still running Windows 2000 and at this point I can't see any reason why I should even consider "upgrading" to XP, let alone Vista. Let's face it, XP is just 2000 with ugly window decorations and a nerfed version of Terminal Server bundled in. Since they managed to get a reasonably unified driver model with Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000, they haven't gone anywhere. Half the stuff they promised originally for XP has been taken out, and most of the rest has been back-ported to NT5 (2000/XP). Internet Explorer is playing catch-up again... apparently choking Netscape off financially only gave it a bit of breathing room.
What's left for Vista? Translucent window borders (you know, like Mac OS *used* to have and removed because it was annoying)?
now add a physical switch on the side of the box so I can switch between xp and osx without waiting for bootup --- effectively windows-alt-tabbing between operating systems --
I find it humurous that so many people have posted about the nice ability to play games on a Intel Mac using Windows, when currently there are no windows drivers for the video card. Unless there are a lot of Quake 1/2 and Doom 1/2 fans, maybe we should wait until drivers begin to surface before we put so much stock in gaming in Windows on a Mac. :)
http://harrisonjordan.com/Winxponmac_0.1.zip. zip. 1.zip
http://leewilkins.com/share/winxponmac0.1.zip
http://www.jerrybrace.com/Winxponmac%200.1.zip
http://www.geekdinner.co.uk/winxponmac0.1.zip
http://www.apple.tempex.sk/wordpress...nmac%200.1
http://individual.utoronto.ca/kkapoor/winxponmac0
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
So you want to copy/paste and transfer things easily from Mac to PC?
0 8933_l.jpg)
Use 2 computers and Synergy. If you don't have space for 2 monitors, then get a KVM switch and use it only for the video. I have personally 6 screens linked up right now at my desk. (http://myspace-933.vo.llnwd.net/00546/33/98/5467
Why does everybody always overlook the obvious?
-@
Move all sig!
For the record, the real hero (or villian if you go that way) of this story is blanka. This hack is all him. moderators please mod this up to give credit where due.
Not to mention illegal. Not that that will stop some people.
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
Fortunately getting Windows to boot is still a hack, but I can just hear it now:
Customer: "When you will have an updated version of your software for Mac OSX Intel?"
Vendor: "We no longer support MacOS. You need to install Windows."
Customer: "But...!"
Vendor: "We no longer see any need to support MacOS. Just install Windows."
Customer: (turns in to a zombie and buys a copy of Windows).
Let's just hope this is never offically supported by Apple or Microsoft.
If this can be automated, and it sounds like it can, this can be used to get Macbooks into businesses, because it reduces the risk that an employee won't be able to use the latest middleware-client-of-the-week when they need it. The employees who get them may end up using rdesktop to a shared XP box for their timecard or purchasing, but they'll get them because they can say "if it doesn't work with Obscuresoft Collaboration Mangler I can always boot to XP".
Actually there's an extremely interesting quote from the Apple/Intel FAQ [http://www.appleintelfaq.com/ After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that." - 06/06/2005 [http://news.com.com/2100-7341_3-5733756-2.html%5D
Limina.Log
There was no porting involved here.
Both cases involved getting an Intel OS running on Intel hardware.
Wicked files (including what appears to be everything I need to perform this installation myself), thanks
Well, yeah, all the other variants except for possibly ROM-DOS will work ;)
Assuming you're using a version of DR-DOS that can get around the Win3.1 OS detection scheme. FWIW, I believe drdos.org still offers DR-DOS 7.03 for download.
. . . wait for it. . . DMCA to be misused by Apple in 3, 2, 1
You have now been sued by Apple in their nightly bid to take over the world. Troz!!
Seriously though, I wonder if Apple would consider taking action? They've already taken action against folks who run OS/X on Wintel boxes. If I were to run OS/X I'd want to run it on a whitebox PC, not an Applefied proprietary box that I can't select better hardware for.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
I wonder how they have the drives partitioned. I assume there are seperate partitions for windows and mac, as windows won't install on HFS+ and mac won't boot on NTFS. Can each OS access the drive of the other OS? You might as well get 2 computers to network together if you can't share documents saved in either OS.
today is spelling optional day.
That's much more interesting, IMHO.
Mac hardware is overpriced, IMO (at least, compared to building the system custom myself..)
I am the maverick of Slashdot
Now that the directions are out, it looks like it requires doing a little slipstreaming to the Windows XP CD (and apparently one that has SP2 in it already).
For those of us who work in IT, like me, and have already created a slipstreamed XP CD with the latest security updates (and storage drivers--thank god for that! no more F6 during an install), I want to know how to add the XP on Mac fixes to that already-prepared CD. Oh, and I want to know how to do that without having to go and actually figure it out myself (mostly because I don't yet have an Intel Mac of my own to play with). WINNT.SIF I can handle, but I'd rather leave TXTSETUP.SIF to someone more knowledgeable (hopefully that will work with the iastor drivers that are already inserted into my CD).
From a quick glance at the patch provided, it looks like it provides the iaStor drivers for the Windows installer to be able to access the hard drive (since the Intel Macs appear to use an Intel 945 chipset with ICH7 storage, this makes sense, since you can't exactly hit "F6" during boot to load the drivers from a floppy. It also looks like it adds a custom framebuffer driver, since the X1600 is apparently one of the few things that doesn't have working drivers yet (everything else seems to be supported by the generic Intel Chipset drivers, the generic Marvell Yukon Gig-E drivers, the generic Broadcom WiFi card drivers, etc). I guess the X1600 issue isn't an issue on the Mac Minis, since those have Intel 950 integrated graphics.
In any case, this is the greatest news I have heard in a long time. I really want to get a MacBook Pro to replace my aging Power Mac G4/500 DP and my crappy eMachines laptop, and I want to dual-boot Windows XP just so I can play games at LAN parties without having to drag my desktop system around (and run a few bits of Windows-only software). For day to day use, nothing beats Mac OS X.
wow, if I put a bullet in my mac, will it run as well as XP on my mac?
Just posted.
http://download.onmac.net/
---k--
</stupid>
Illegal? Why?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
There's a torrent to the solution at http://exe64.com:6969/ seeing as how the onmac servers seem to be down at the moment.
I hope so, but wasn't there something about having to modify bits to get VGA working ? That sounds bad. No working video acceleration ?
I'm sure it'll be worked out soon, but it sounds like you're not going to be able to immediately play high-end games or even watch video using this system without more work. That's a bit of a problem. Like I said, it'll probably be solved soon, but still, that's a problem for the vast majority of people interested in booting their Intel Mac into Windows.
My prediction ( for what little it is worth ) is that, when it's all said in done, people will really end up using VPC-like solutions, not dual-booting Windows on their Macs. Not that it won't be done, but the benefits of the the VPC/Qume/Wine-like solutions ( since it'll be *fast* unlike VPC on PPC ) would likely outweigh the benefits of dual-booting for most users.
It seems that one might well be able to subvert the 'standby' or 'sleep' modes of both OS's to provide fast OS switching; hit a key to get the system to slumber (i.e. save system state) then add a 'system state swap' hack where you can switch over into the slumber mode of the other OS and reawaken.
AFAIK both OS's have both 'light standby' and sleep modes, presumably sleep involves swapping the ram out to disk and even reinitialising hardware on wake, so may just be the ticket.
If this can be made to work and tweaked for speed it would seem that you'd be able to ALT-TAB between OS's with a sub-10 second delay. That'd do for me.
Hope so!
FL
[FrLz]
Two big reasons:
1. Need to run software applications for your work that are not available on Mac OS X. There are a ton of business applications for various industries that are Windows only. You may not want to run them but you may not have a choice at your job.
2. Games. You may not have time for them, but others (such as myself) do. Sure Mac OS X has some games but they don't tend to be released right away for Mac and some genres are not well represented (i.e. MMOs where World of Warcraft is about your only choice). And no the "get a console" argument doesn't work for people who play strategy games, MMORPGs or prefer using a mouse for FPS games.
There is a third sort of weak reason:
3. Cross platform development without needing another system.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Well, according to my buddy Mark, with BAMBIOS you'll be able to book x86 whatever you want (os/2, solaris, xp, etc). I'd guess we'll see a release within a week or so.
Don't you think some Apple engineers have done this already? They only had pre-release versions of the hardware, the software, and plenty of time, I'm sure.....
the site is slashdoted, another mirror: http://www.devishlyslinky.com/winxponmac0.1.zip
Mac toys and accessories blog
here a little torrent where you can find narf2006 howto and files http://exe64.com:6969/torrent.html?info_hash=889b0 afec31c90c2ca744ce0463954017a43685a
What you'll need
----------------
1. An original XP PRO SP2 CDROM
It doesn't have to be bootable, but it should have a I386
directory on the root.
2. The xom.zip file.
3. Nero Burning ROM
4. A blank CD
5. A PC of course...
6. 20-30 minutes
"I had an Amiga. It loved to crash, and when one application died it would bring down the entire machine."
You might want to note that no personal computers of the time period had memory protection. The CPUs of the time didn't have MMUs and if they did they weren't used (as in the case of the 68030 and up series of chips on Macs and Amigas). When one application died on a Mac it would take down the entire machine. In fact this was the case on Macs until the release of OS X. In certain cases you might have been able to recover enough to shutdown the Mac safely, but in general if you were using "force quit" you were likely to have the whole computer crash.
Windows 3.1 was released in 1992, a bit later than the Amiga in 1985. I don't know if I would say it was all that much stabler than an Amiga. It really depending on what programs you were running. Well behaved Windows apps weren't too bad, but running DOS stuff under Windows was real hit or miss.
"The Mac, with the first graphical interface in an affordable PC, was surely just as innovative as the Amiga, if not more so."
I guess they were both innovative in that they stole the desktop metaphor from other developers. Mice, folders/drawers, trash cans etc. None of that was invented at Apple or Amiga.
I don't really think I'd call the Mac affordable. I went with an Amiga in 1987 because I couldn't afford a color Macintosh (the first color Mac II's were 3-5 times the cost of an Amiga). I liked to use my computer for artwork and not having color was too big a limitation. Color Macs were not common home computers in '87.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Even though I'm not sure the Apple execs are right now. What about users, and what they want? There are many different users who may be looking at getting a Mac, but still have some need of windows. Some may get by fine with Virtual PC 8.0 (I presume), and/or VMWare, so that you can run a crucial app now and again, and cut and paste. Since it's Intel, I guess that would work pretty quick, no? Sort of like running Windows in Classic, ha, ha. For others, being able to boot in real Windows may be necessary. Well, we've got something for them, too. The real question, to me (and forgive me if I'm a tech dolt), is how about Windows games? What about Direct X support? If Macs could run Windows games natively, there's an awful lot of people who would be snappin' up those Macs right away.
That the classic 1984 ad showed a woman wearing colored clothes running into a hall of gray zombified people smashing the video of the gray evil dictator.
And this was used to sell a product that was monochrome.
The original Apple rainbow logo highlighted the fact that Apple IIs were one of the first low cost computers to do color video displays (thanks to Woz).
After Jobs moved on to NeXt with their high res monochrome screens, I often have wondered if Steve Jobs is color blind.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Tiger (the latest OSX, included with all Intel Macs) includes this functionality. Open the "Keyboard & Mouse" preferences, and click "Modifier Keys." Remap to your heart's content.
The Macintosh interface was quite a bit different from the Xerox Star's, and innovation certainly includes making a formerly unaffordable product more affordable.
In my recollection, if you had to force quit an application on the Macintosh, it would usually hang on just long enough for you to save your files. (Note that I said usually, not always).
The same was true of the same type of error in Windows. If you had other applications open you could normally save the data in them and then reboot.
In the Amiga, BANG! You lost everything, instantly because the OS gave up the ghost basically the second something went wrong. Remember the top 1/4 of the screen turning black and the "Guru Meditation" message? The machine died then.
D
"...but you don't step into it just because of the fact that it's possible to do it, or do you?"
This reminds me of an old Polish joke:
Polish guy walks into a bar with a steaming pile of horse crap in his hand and says:
"Hey! Look what I almost stepped in!"
Dual booting is unpractical
"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"
I'm not your typical w4r3z d00d but this is one case where I do hope the .ISO gets distributed widely and soon. That way, the world's hackers can get started on fixing the remaining issues. In some countries this may be illegal, but I'm almost certain that it's not wrong to do. (Some countries just have bad laws, and besides, sometimes it's right to break even good laws.)
The next round of prize money should be for getting all the devices to work right and at native speeds.
Just why!
Microsoft's USB keyboards have worked beautifully with Macs for years, and Mac drivers are available for them.
All of their keyboards with the row of special keys on top of the F-key row have been great-- my first was a beige, wired Internet Keyboard Pro, dating back to 1999 or so. The "Media" key is the CD/DVD eject key, the volume keys set system volume, "Mute" works as expected, and the "Sleep" button brings up the Mac's Restart/Sleep/Cancel/Shut Down dialog. The "Play", "Pause", "Next Track" and "Previous Track" keys control iTunes system-wide, without it being the active application. I'm currently using the Wireless Optical Desktop 2.0, and it all works the same. It also works great with my USB KVM, which is also connected to an XP machine. Even the battery life is stellar, I got about 18 months of heavy use out of the batteries that came in the box with the keyboard. (If you buy one, get the "OEM" versions NewEgg sells. Plain brown box, about $20 cheaper than retail last time I bought one.)
As a Mac sysadmin who frequently runs into roadblocks trying to get Macs to play nice in Windows networks, I despise Microsoft for all the stuff they proprietarize just to make it harder to use non-MS solutions. But I really, really like their keyboards and mice specifically because they work so well with Macs and Windows.
~Philly
Hire this guy and get him under an NDA asap! :-)
Sleep (Mac OS) / Standby (Windows): A low-power state in which the contents of main system memory are preserved, but power is cut to most other hardware, including the main processor. On resuming, the processor powers up, but with an empty cache, and the system is usable very quickly as if it was never powered down.
Deep Sleep (Mac OS) / Hibernate (Windows): A state in which the contents of main memory are saved to disk, as well as some configuration parameters, then the system is completely powered off. On turning the computer back on, the OS loader recognizes this saved state on disk, and reloads that image of main memory. The system then resumes as if it had woken from a normal Sleep/Standby. This takes significantly longer to 'wake' from than Sleep/Stanby, as it must load the contents of main memory from disk. This takes longer on systems with more memory, and with slower hard drives. (i.e. A 256 MB RAM system with a 15,000 RPM SCSI hard drive would wake many times faster than a 4 GB RAM system with a 5400 RPM ATA drive.)
It's Deep Sleep/Hibernate that could be subverted. If you could find a way to have the OS loader (the one that in this solution provides a simple graphical Apple or Windows logo,) be certain to load before the Deep Sleep/Hibernate loaders, and check for the Deep Sleep/Hibernate images on each OS' partition, it would be possible to switch between 'hibernating' OSes fairly simply. (Windows has an easy-to-access method for entering Hibernate mode; OS X is more difficult to force into this mode, but it is possible.)
That's actually a great idea. I'll have to see if the current solution happens to support this. (It may already work without having been specifically implemented, just due to the nature of the way Deep Sleep/Hibernate works. I know that in Windows, it's the OS bootloader that checks for the Hibernate image, so the Windows end should work just fine; I'm not sure if in Mac OS it's the OS bootloader that does it, or if the OS sets something in EFI that might actually break the article's hack...)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
So guess what:: Download it via Emule, bearshare, bittorrent (when someone posts/seeds it onto those p2p networks.) don't pay for it, download it for free!
What about Linux? You guys can put it on an iPod, what about the iMac?
I'm a 2000 man.
What would be cooler then hell is to have fast user switching on my mac, let me swap over to Winders (for whatever the hell reason), then switch back to the mac when I'm done. Oh, and make C:\Documents and Some Additional Settings\me map to /Users/me
/tmp/notes or something.
I guess I don't need to copy and paste between applications that often, and if I did, just plop it in
Yeah - that could be useful. I'll keep my $400 pc for pc things for now.
If QEMU can be tuned up to become a workable solution, this might be a better way of running Windows on MacIntel. Insecure guest OS runs sandboxed and chrooted from the more secure (but not perfectly secure) host OS. I wonder if W2K SP4 or 98SE would run faster than XP under the same conditions...
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
And you know it.
I need something like this because I use XP and am a masochist. If I can't fool around with a Mac at least once a month the pain of XP begins to dull.
And, yes I DO step in shit when I see it, if I see it right after I've had my shoes shined. That's the Window$ way!
Any thoughts on if this would be doable from within VPC?
Allot more Mac users have VPC then $$$ to buy a XP box just to set this up...
Anyone manage to get the custom Install disk made from inside VPC?
Allot more Mac users have VPC than the $$$ to buy a XP box to accomplish this.....
Whatever you might think about running a dodgy os on your pristine mac, this is one *seriously* cool hack! What whatisname said about climbing everest springs to mind (although lamentably his name does not) - (Q: why do it? A:) because it's there.
Very cool.
"The Macintosh interface was quite a bit different from the Xerox Star's, and innovation certainly includes making a formerly unaffordable product more affordable."
Refinement sure but the metaphor was not theirs. The lawsuits have been flung back and forth over this issue through the years, from Apple vs. Microsoft, to Apple vs. GEM to Xerox vs. Apple.
I certainly never thought of Apple computers as inexpensive. The Apple II was priced out of range for my family, so we had a C64 at home. I used Apples at school and couldn't understand why they cost so much more. When I started doing design work in the late 80s I couldn't afford a Mac at home. I worked on Macs at the office and used an Amiga at home. I used to boot Mac OS on my Amiga to do design work because I couldn't afford several thousand dollars for a Mac (don't even mention doing design on a lunch box Mac screen).
Apple innovates sure, but Apple co-opts technology as well. Look at the guts of OS X for example. Or the PC components in the latest Macs.
"In my recollection, if you had to force quit an application on the Macintosh, it would usually hang on just long enough for you to save your files. (Note that I said usually, not always)."
When was the last time you used a Mac OS earlier than 10? I still deal with OS 9 machines on a daily basis and I can tell you that this is not true. It got a little better with OS 8 versus System 7 and earlier but nine times out of ten having to force quit meant you were likely to lose something. You might get the finder back and you might be able to save your data OR you might have the computer lock up during the save or shutdown potentially corrupting your data. I learned this pretty early in my career when I was forced on deadline to re-layout a magazine due to corruption caused by attempting to save out of QuarkXpress when Photoshop decided to take a dump. Save frequently and use "save as" periodically was the rule of thumb.
In Mac OS prior to OS X, the lack of guidelines for creating extensions caused all kind of problems with extension conflicts where one extension would stomp over the memory of another locking the system up. This problem often appeared as intermittent crashes and was difficult to debug. Enough of a problem that a product was sold called "Conflict Catcher" to attempt to prevent it. In Mac OS 8 they also added in extension set management to help ease troubleshooting these problems rather than the traditional, take an extension out of the system folder, reboot, see if the problem still occurs type of troubleshooting.
In regards to the Amiga, keep in mind that when the Amiga launched in 1985 it had preemptive multitasking. The Mac at that time had only "Desktop Accessories" (like the calculator and the Apple sliding puzzle) which could be run concurrently with a single application. It wasn't until System 5 that multifinder was released (1987 I believe) and not until System 7 that true cooperative multitasking was integrated into the OS. The Mac wouldn't get preemptive multitasking until the release of OS X.
You mention the Guru Meditation, but you don't remember the "Software error - task held Finish all disk activity Select CANCEL to reset/debug" request. This message sometimes allowed you to save your data before the system shit the bed. Much like the force quit on Mac. It didn't always work particularly if the application you wanted to save data from was the one that crashed (same as on any other OS).
With the release of AmigaDOS 2.0 there was some additional handling of errant applications (recoverable errors). Well behaved applications wouldn't necessarily take the system down, similar to how Mac OS and Windows 3.1 worked. As I mentioned before Windows was barely used before 3.0 and that version wasn't released until the '90s. Windows also could take advantage of protected mode in the 386 series of computers which helped prevent stability problems when running multiple programs.
If you are going to compare operating systems I think it only makes sense
Sometimes my arms bend back.
No working video acceleration?
That's a bummer for gamers, but no problem at all for TLAsoft Annoying Meeting Generator or Very Large Corporation Enterprise Email Trasher. In fact "no video acceleration" is probably a bonus from the IT department's perspective.
Virtualization is definitely a better solution, but what they have now is a palce to start.
Virtual PC is just the mshits way of doing things. Use qemu or something and you're fine. Better yet, help with WINE for OSX or something so win32 apps can run on an OSX platform/
What is totally hillarious is that for what feels like the first time ever on slashdot everyone is talking about how they can hack something to run Windows instead of uselix ... i mean ... linux :)
Go MS!
I hear directly under the chin is a good spot.
But virtualizing it has the hit that it's an emulation and has the overhead of the other system running behind it... hell, virtulising the SAME operating system within itself is slow as crap.
By dual booting you have ALL the resources available, which is definitely what you WANT for games
So first of all I'm dissappointed that no one here has flat out asked this question yet. How does this work? I'm not talking can you do these things easily, I'm talking how does it fake Windows into thinking EFI is a bios?
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
downloads, instructions, and files from the fourms
f inally-done-it-windows-xp-on-the-intel-mac-downloa d-here/
http://kublakhan.wordpress.com/2006/03/16/theyve-
it's already been done months ago, look here http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/os/0,39024180, 39235916,00.htm. it's a little picky with the hardware, not to mention illegal, but both AMD and intel cpus have been used, and there's even hardware video acceleration with a supported video chipset.
What being able to run XP, OS X and Linux on the same hardware does is give sites flexibility. If you have a university computing lab full of desktop computers, it is now possible to have users decide which OS to boot into. Previously the administration had to decide months if not years in advance how many MS machines vs OS X machines to buy. Now you (can in theory) have one that will do both.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Now if they could just get XP to run on my X86 PC....
excellent point. MOD PARENT UP, yo! I'm convinced!
If I go into my local shop, buy a MaxOS X DVD then why exactly should I not be allowed to install I own where I like? I mean I just bought it - it's mine.
It is not the fist time. Back in the 16 bit times you could install MacOS (V.3 ??) on Atari computers. And if you owned an set of original Apple ROM there was nothing Apple could do. They whined but they could not do a thing. At least not here in Germany.
I think it's called "fair use" in the US. You own a legitemate copy and you install it (once) where you like.
Martin
All very true. I remember those times. But it is all gone now. M$ could not make big bugs with non x86 and stopped supporting anything else.
Martin
I immediately removed the crappy OEM'd copy of Vista from my cheap commodity hardware and easily installed OS X 10.6.2. Seriously, OS X HouseCat is sooooo much better than Leopard. I followed the wiki and voila, almost three of the drivers worked and everything. Windows Vista is, like, sooo 2008.
So now that the Mini has video drivers working, and you can now get crappy frame rates in PC games....could someone please get a driver working for the MacBook? THIS is the next step.
finally... If i get an intel mac i will definetely be installing/using this.
Bullet connects to the price of her crime.
He probably is. You did see those "Dalmatian" iMacs that came out around 2001, didn't you?