Duke Nukem Forever Update

Gamasutra reports on an update to one of the longest running jokes in the games industry, Duke Nukem Forever. The title, already ten years in development, may (possibly) see release this decade. From the blurb: "3DR's George Broussard also demonstrated world interactivity that includes Duke standing in front of a computer and emailing the player, if he provides his email address for the game. But, according to the piece, Broussard was bashful, overall, about showing off the game, commenting: 'The problem is that when we show it, people are going to be like, Yeah, whatever. Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it.'"

Comments

What Went Wrong?

[eldavojohn]

You know, I think there's a lot to be said about project management when developing a computer game. Computer games have so many frail aspects.

They are complex.

The technology is forever changing.

There are multiple platforms.

They become obsolete after two months.

The fan base is one of usual hypercriticality.

With these aspects working against you, developing them is just all the more difficult. How many times has this game changed the engine it's being built upon? Too many.

From the article:

The game has undergone at least one complete change to its game engine during the course of development. Originally utilizing id Software's Quake II engine, the 3D Realms team switched in 1998 to Epic's Unreal engine 1.0 [6], forcing a revision of all previous work except for the game's textures, which were later replaced anyway.

3D Realms continued to receive updates from Epic for their newly licensed engine, and in 2000 they moved to the Unreal Engine 1.5 technology branch. However, in mid 2001 they cut themselves off entirely from Epic and went their own way [7].

2002 marked the start of what is widely considered to be the second project restart. After hiring several new programmers, the team completely re-wrote the renderer and other game engine modules, beginning work on a new generation of game content. Broussard estimates that around 95% of the previous level design work has since been scrapped. The engine (now based on Unreal engine 2.0) is for the first time supposedly complete, and supporting such features as pixel shading, normal mapping and high dynamic range based lighting.

George Broussard has stated several times that the only parts of the Unreal engine that are still part of their code base are UnrealScript, the networking code, and the level editor. Everything else, except Meqon, which is the physics engine, has been written from scratch by 3D Realms. The principal technical reason given by Broussard for the extensive delays was the unstable tech base. Now that this problem seems to have been solved, 3DR have expanded their team considerably, from 22 to 31 members, marking what many hope to be the final stage of the development cycle.

When a major game comes out, it is humorously suggested in many fan circles that Duke Nukem Forever will be switching to the renderer of that recently released game.

There's also a very informative timeline. As the last sentence of the above excerpt illustrates, Duke Nukem Forever came to suffer a development process that simply could never complete itself because it always needed the newest latest and greatest renderer. This is insanity, and I predict that this game will lack original content and any sort of story line since they are relying on graphics and graphics alone to satisfy the customer requirements. You could release a side scrolling version of Duke Nukem (a la Duke Nukem II) that I would play given a good story line and fun puzzle-solving levels.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[maxwell demon]

Now that this problem seems to have been solved, 3DR have expanded their team considerably, from 22 to 31 members, marking what many hope to be the final stage of the development cycle.

What happens again if you add more people to a late project? :-)

Re:What Went Wrong?

[AKAImBatman]

The game has undergone at least one complete change to its game engine during the course of development. Originally utilizing id Software's Quake II engine, the 3D Realms team switched in 1998 to Epic's Unreal engine 1.0 [6], forcing a revision of all previous work except for the game's textures, which were later replaced anyway.

It's worse than that, actually. From a PC Gamer article I read back in the 90's, DNF started with the Quake I engine, then moved to the Quake II engine. They thought it would be an easy transition until they realized that the higher resolution of the Q2 engine meant that they needed to add more detail to all their models. By the time they got to the Unreal engine, everyone was already starting to wonder if it was going to ship.

So in short, they've been picking up and throwing away their work for a long time now.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[rolfwind]

What went wrong?

Yeah, there can be a multitude of reasons but I think it boils down to: Someone in the chain of command didn't know when to call quits.

When to quit tweaking the game. When to quit adding shit. When to quit revising it. When to quit the project period.

This obviously isn't the game they had in mind years ago, hell, it's been majorly revised several times. The problem is, in that span, a normal team could have gotten several (say 2-4) of the better concepts for a DukeNukem game to market and have had at least one good, if not great game.

As it is, I don't see any strong direction for the game now, it looks like it's being designed to be a jack-of-all-trades. And through all the hype and time, the bar is set so high, that it better be nothing short of spectacular.

Personally, I'm betting it'll be thoroughly mediocre.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[babbling]

What I don't understand is WHY Duke Nukem Forever had to take so long. In the same time that it has taken to do DNF, 3D Realms has shipped several other decent games, for example, Max Payne and Max Payne 2. I understand that these games would have been developed by separate teams within 3D Realms, but why did they have the wrong team working on their BIG game? They could have shipped at least 3 Duke Nukem games in the time it has taken to do DNF. No one expects a Duke game to be the best game ever. It's supposed to be some quick fun.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[rueger]

Yeah, there can be a multitude of reasons but I think it boils down to: Someone in the chain of command didn't know when to call quits.

When to quit tweaking the game. When to quit adding shit. When to quit revising it. When to quit the project period.

As I recall, these attributes are considered to be a good thing within the Open Source community.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the problem (with this iteration of its development) is that they added in gimmicks like emailing the player before actually creating the game. That is the sort of thing you add in once you actually have a game, when you are finished and at the "bells and whistles" stage.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[geobeck]

The problem is, in that span, a normal team could have gotten several (say 2-4) of the better concepts for a DukeNukem game to market and have had at least one good, if not great game.

They say projects are never completed; they are merely abandonned.

You are exactly right. 3DRealms should have released 2-4 good (but not great) games since I bought my copy of Duke Nukem Atomic Edition way back when. I still load that game onto my computer occasionally when I feel like blasting some aliens, because even though the game technology is years old, it's still a very playable game.

Here's my armchair perspective of how 3DR should proceed:

1. Replace the project manager - Whoever is in charge of the project has obviously never managed a project for a company where the customer sets the deadlines. Replace this guy with a non-game developer type who knows when a product is good enough for the market.
2. Kill "Forever" - The name of the current vapor-game implies that this will be the ultimate Duke Nukem experience, the game to end all games, after which every gamer will burn his Quake, GTA, and DOOM3 CDs in despair. Forget pursuing the Holy Grail. Just make a game.
3. Release your results after one year no matter what - Sure, you'll have cool stuff you want to add on release day, but you can save it for Duke 5. You know? The one you'll be able to develop because Duke 4 brings in some revenue?

3DR needs to stop thinking of Duke 4 in terms of a motion picture masterpiece that will go down in history with Ben Hur, Lawrence of Arabia, or Debbie Does Dallas. Think of it more like James Bond or Star Trek. Some people will like each release, some people will hate it. But it brings in enough dough to keep the franchise going, and gives your core fan base a whole lot of fun.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[ranton]

When to quit tweaking the game. When to quit adding shit. When to quit revising it. When to quit the project period.

As I recall, these attributes are considered to be a good thing within the Open Source community.

Yeah, but think of where Linux would be if Linus was still working on it alone at home because it didnt quite have all of the features that he wanted. It wouldnt be nearly as far along.
--

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Bogtha]

The problem is, in that span, a normal team could have gotten several (say 2-4) of the better concepts for a DukeNukem game to market and have had at least one good, if not great game.

As somebody always points out, NASA have designed robots, built them and sent them to Mars in less time than it has taken to produce Duke Nukem Forever. I think "one good, if not great game" is aiming a little low, personally. I've attended college, university and built a business up in the same time period.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[geobeck]

Forgot one:

4. Compartmentalize revenue - The revenue from Duke 4 pays for Duke 5. The revenue from Duke 5 pays for Duke 6. The revenue for Hillbilly Spider Aliens does not pay for Duke Anything. This will prevent any particular release from becoming The Monster That Ate the Dev Team(TM), like Duke Forever... wherever it's getting its funding from.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[AzsxQuii]

Remind me to send those chaps a copy of: "The Mythical Man-Month:Essays on Software Engineering" By Frederick P. Brooks, Jr. Particular Attention should be paid to: "The Second-System Effect"

Re:What Went Wrong?

[fritzk3]

Somehow I find it pretty funny that the acronym for Duke Nukem Forever is the same as that given to an entrant who drops out of a race or some other contest: DNF!

Re:What Went Wrong?

[kubevubin]

Hahahaha...that is rather amusing...

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Bogtha]

Yeah, but think of where Linux would be if Linus was still working on it alone at home because it didnt quite have all of the features that he wanted.

We know exactly where it would be, because another open-source kernel project has succumbed to this.

The GNU kernel was originally meant to be based on Trix, but then it was decided that it was too much work to port to other architectures, so work began afresh on the HURD, based on the Mach microkernel. After a while, it was decided that Mach wasn't good enough, so work began again on a revision of the HURD, this time based on the L4 microkernel. These days, there's talk about abandoning that work too, in favour of something based on Coyotos.

Meanwhile, after sixteen years, GNU still don't have their own production-ready operating system kernel, but more pragmatic people have brought us Linux.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[AKAImBatman]

Believe it or not, that's a pretty common joke about Duke Nukem Forever.

Some other gags include:

* Duke Nukem Taking Forever
* Duke Nukem Forever and Ever
* Duke Nukem If Ever

:=)

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't the whole game a joke, it never existed, never will.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[prell]

They might not have changed engines simply to have the newest/prettiest/whatever engine; those changes might have just been patches to "catch up" the game since it was delayed so long due to other reasons. I doubt the game's development has taken so long simply because of an unreasonable desire to be using the latest game engine technology.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[prell]

I think there is virtue in establishing a milestone and saying, "this is when we will release this program as a major revision." I don't think people are inclined to update a program daily just for minor changes. Major bugfixes, yes, perhaps, but I don't think people will feel inclined to update their copy of the program unless there are new features available, or their copy has become corrupted or contains bugs that bother them a lot.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[msloan]

Graphics, and physics - meqon kicks ass! I saw a demo of it, best physics engine ive seen. I suppose the ageia stuff looks very nice, but ive only seen videos and not demos.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[goodenoughnickname]

Someone in the chain of command didn't know when to call quits.

George Lucas works for 3D Realms?

Re:What Went Wrong?

[p0ppe]

Max Payne was developed by Remedy of Finland, but distributed by 3DRealms. Duke Nukem seems to be developed by 3DRealms. Makes a big diffrence.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Atzanteol]

As I recall, these attributes are considered to be a good thing within the Open Source community.

And if DNF were open source it would be a good thing. You would, in fact, be *playing* DNF right now.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Pxtl]

The difference with OS software is that you can keep adding the stuff after release. You can start with a public available text editor and gradually convolute it into a publicly available everything-but-the-kitchen-sink, and have users throughout the whole process. Retail software isn't like that, as it must be (approximately) finished at the time of launch.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, no, no, you mean Ben Hurt, Leisure Suit Lawrence of Arabia, or Debbie Does Dallas.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

As I recall, these attributes are considered to be a good thing within the Open Source community.

And look at all the great computer games that the open-source community has developed!

Er...

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

We know exactly where it would be, because another open-source kernel project has succumbed to this.

you make a very good point.

i would like to say that i personally feel that the success of linux has made HURD even more likely to take a longer time - now that there IS a kernel that can be used, the pressure to come up with something that works and so can be used is lifted (i'm thinking the freedom to tinker outweighs their competitive urge viz a vis linux). So now there's nothing holding them back from a neverending quest towards some abstract perfection and beauty that makes shipping code farther and farther away

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Kenshin]

Silly nerd... Trix are for kids!

Re:What Went Wrong?

[aqfire]

As I recall, these attributes are considered to be a good thing within the Open Source community.

Yeah, but that's because they actually release their stuff from time to time.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Nasarius]

You're right, but I suspect that the success of Linux is the major reason that the HURD has never seen the light of day. But I had to laugh when I heard they decided to ditch Pistachio (fairly mature, fast, and cross-platform) in favor of a brand new kernel that's nowhere near finished ("The Coyotos tree is far from ready to build in any meaningful way"), is primarily being developed to support x86 platforms, and is written in its own new language! It's like they've given up hope of ever producing something useful and concluded that the HURD will forever be an academic project only. It's unfortunate, because a usable FOSS microkernel OS would be very cool.

Personally, I'm working on my own toy OS based on Pistachio. It's a lot of fun, but I have no delusions of grandeur.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Propaganda13]

Here's my armchair perspective of how 3DR should proceed:

1. Release some crappy DNF game.
2. Accept ridicule and blame.
3. Quickly make a decent game based on a new engine.
4. Release new game without overhyped promises.

You don't need to reinvent the world to put out a good and profitable game. RTCW comes to mind.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[Lisandro]

You could release a side scrolling version of Duke Nukem (a la Duke Nukem II) that I would play given a good story line and fun puzzle-solving levels.

You like mean Manhattan Proyect?. That was a great 2D scroller (sporting 3D graphics) with an old school feel that sadly was dismissed by many.

Re:What Went Wrong?

[chrish]

If they follow your plan, when they hit the #3 item, how about:

3.5. Don't rewrite the 3D engine when you're licensing a 3D engine from someone.

What's the point of licensing an engine if you throw it away and invent your own wheel?

You Retards!

[Anonymous Coward]

April Fools day was on the first. This story is 13 days too old!

Re:You Retards!

[TigerNut]

You don't understand... the power of DNF is such that anything related to it, even press releases and Slashdot stories, show up late.

Re:You Retards!

[Anonymous Coward]

You Retard!

If April Fool's was on the first and today is the 13th the sotry is only 12 days to old!

13 - 1 = 12

Re:You Retards!

[Anonymous Coward]

April Fools day was on the first. This story is 13 days too old!

No, no, no... The April Fools day joke was that there was no article about DNF... This is just the dupe of that non-article. (or something)

Re:You Retards!

[Bluey]

I suppose this means we'll be waiting at least 24 hours for the first dupe to be posted?

Re:You Retards!

[mwilli]

Well, it appeared on April 1st too!

Re:You Retards!

[Daniel_Staal]

No, the dupe will be posted after the product ships.

Re:You Retards!

[Rolgar]

An article published on April 1st by an Ars staff member that he had played 12 maps from the game, compiled from a series of disks that he'd recieved as part of a promotional kit. The article was a three page review of the game that said, while fun, it's not going to knock anybody's socks off.

Re:You Retards!

[BrettJB]

Perhaps I missed the sarcasm in your post...

You did realize the Ars post was an April Fool's joke, right?

Re:You Retards!

[gbobeck]

You don't understand... the power of DNF is such that anything related to it, even press releases and Slashdot stories, show up late.

... Just like Microsoft Vista.

Re:You Retards!

[master_p]

in other words, April Fool's jokes Forever(TM)???

Re:You Retards!

[Anonymous Coward]

awesome. hats off to you, sir. this post is evidence that the limit should perhaps be greater than +5 funny.

Re:You Retards!

[retards]

Don't talk to me like you know me.

Preorder?

[skelman]

This sounds great...where can I preorder it?

Re:Preorder?

[u-235-sentinel]

This sounds great...where can I preorder it?

I noticed it's available for download at http://freshmeat.net/projects/dukeforever/ and it's being written in Perl. I knew Perl was powerful but now I'm really impressed :-)

Re:Preorder?

[revery]

Just pre-order the Phantom Game Console and you're automatically pre-ordered for Duke Nukem Forever, or you can sign up the most exciting magazine never to hit the stands, Vaporware Monthly, every month VM pushes back the deadline for what will be the most spectacular magazine launch in history. Each soon to be published issue is expected to be packaged with a virtual Blue Ray disc potentially containing the full version of thousands of super-exciting games that will never be released. Additionally, a mustn't miss feature of each issue is Shrodinger's SoapBox, a visionary look at the state of next year's vaporware. Subscribe Now!!!

Re:Preorder?

[wolfemi1]

HELLO GOOD SIR.

MY NAME IS MIKE OBUTU. I HAVE RECENTLY COME INTO POSESSION OF 1000000 (ONE MILLION) COPIES OF DUKE NUKEM FOREVER.

Stupid lameness filter isn't letting me post the full message, but you get the idea.

Re:Preorder?

[Billly Gates]

I believe you can get it with apt-get when Gnu/Hurd 1.0 stable is released and it will be bundled with the operating sytem as its the chosen platform

Re:Preorder?

[alexandreracine]

Oh yeah, I like this magasine. This month, they are talking about Vista releasing in 2007.

Re:Preorder?

[Rew190]

Actually, I think you're thinking of the package that comes with Bitboys' Glaze 3D card. Also included is the patch that makes Daikatana not suck.

Re:Preorder?

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid lameness filter isn't letting me post the full message

Stupid? I think not! Imagine how much cooler Saturday Night Live would be if my TV had a filter capable of preventing 5 second jokes from being dragged out for five minutes.

Re:Preorder?

[F_Scentura]

It'd better come with the advertised Tom Clancy and Metroid Prime!

Re:Preorder?

[I Like Pudding]

The EB At the End of the Universe. On sale Octember eleventeenth!

Re:Preorder?

[JudgeFurious]

It's true. Registering for the Phantom Game Console automatically pre-orders you a copy of Duke Nukem Forever.

  Randomly chosen pre-orders will get a free copy of Guns and Roses new album "Chinese Democracy". Don't hesitate to get your order in today!

April 1 lasts a long time at Slashdot.

[MyLongNickName]

And you forgot the "OMG P0n13s!!!11"

Nothing for you to see here, move along

[Bogtha]

But, according to the piece, Broussard was bashful, overall, about showing off the game, commenting: 'The problem is that when we show it, people are going to be like, Yeah, whatever. Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it.'"

Sounds to me like Broussard has finally realised that endless rewrites and engine changes were a mistake, and that at some point you have to accept limitations and ship the product. Now that he has realised this, I expect DNF will actually be released in the near future.

Re:Nothing for you to see here, move along

[Kangburra]

I expect DNF will actually be released

Oooooh, I get it. I thought DNF was Did Not Finish. The penny drops....finally.

Re:Nothing for you to see here, move along

[Chris Burke]

Yeah, personally I was expecting him to say "Honestly, at this point we just want to continue dicking around with it for another decade."

It sounds to me like he realises the endless rewrites were a mistake, but it also sounds like he's resigned to the fact that nobody cares if they release tomorrow or five years from now. He's gone from being optimistic about realising it soon (which granted was always incorrect), to saying he hopes they someday finish it (which may turn out to actually occur).

Either way, I forsee at least another year of "Duke Nukem Whenever" jokes, followed by a whole slew of new jokes based on the crappy game they actually release.

Finally some REAL progress!

[coupland]

"mainly just pieces of the game in progress and tech demos", including "an early level, a vehicle sequence, a few test rooms"

OOOoooo, an early level *and* some test rooms? Sounds like they've been busy these past ten years! If we're lucky maybe they've also completed a Pong mini-game, which leaves nothing left to create except the game itself.

Re:Finally some REAL progress!

[vranash]

On that note, maybe they could add in an adult version of Commander Keen, and maybe Jill of the Jungle, and make it an AO rated game for all us kids who played those games back in the heyday of Shareware, only adult, with like PORN, and X rated violence! :P

Re:Finally some REAL progress!

[Anonymous Coward]

My god, don't even joke about that.

A number of years ago I worked at a software company with clueless management. We had a guy working away on this really abstract networked object tree thing which was supposed to make the world a better place.

So... months and months go by with no end in sight, and no real target application identified.

So what did they have us put together (to sucker in more venture capital.. this was the dot com days)? A networked Pong demo based on his distributed object model. I shit you not.

What /I'm/ waitng for..

[Lord Bitman]

I can't wait 'till this is delayed because they need to take some violence and sexual content out instead of because "it doesnt exist"

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[xenoandroid]

It's only sexual content that would cause it to be delayed. Remember GTA, running around killing police gets an M rating but a nipple makes it AO.

Remember, in America the idea of taking lives is less offensive than the idea of the nude human body and procreation.

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesu Christo, that won't even fit on a bumpersticker. How about :

"In America taking lives is less offensive than making lives"

Well, at least it scans bettar.

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[nuzak]

I agree with your sentiment, but geez man, lay off the preachiness.

And do note that the only result you'll get out of bringing up your grievances to officials is that they'll go after the violence with renewed fervor. You think you can make any of these people less uptight?

I have a copy of GTA:SA that's mouldering on my shelf barely played because the persistent world gets boring quickly, and the controls for shooting are just too frustrating, but I can still enjoy a violent game. Yeah, the Myth franchise would be so much better if everyone just dies in a twinkle of stars, eh?

Man, reading that last paragraph makes me wonder if games haven't sapped my intelligence though... Oh well.

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[Gilmoure]

"In America taking lives is less offensive than viewing nipples"

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[Lord Bitman]

SA Is persistent now? Did they release a new version or something?
Wake me up when the pile of cars I spent an hour stacking on top of eachother in beautiful flaming glory doesnt go away when I turn around.

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[DjMd]

in Evil{Killing ?

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[DjMd]

ha ha used less-than, and started a tag I didn't close.

in Evil{nipples>killing}

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[xenoandroid]

I know you're probably joking but in a forum-like environment, it is more important to state your thoughts clearly than it is to cut it down to the size of a bumper sticker.

You fail to point out that we also find bare nipples (attached to the female form) and genitalia offensive. Some moron might forget that and think that sex and violence are now equals in how offensive they are, as long as you don't show nipples.

Re:What /I'm/ waitng for..

[xenoandroid]

I'm both annoyed with the natural forms and processes are more offensive than murder as well as the stupidity behind an M rating versus an AO rating as well as the stupidity behind stores not even carrying certain things because of the rating.

When it comes to game industry and content ratings, there's nothing but a pile of moronic bullshit that makes absolutely no sense. If you're going to argue about these things though you may as well start with the easiest arguement to make.

BTW, I stopped caring about GTA after Vice City. I find it boring, but I still find everything surrounding political decsions about what's 'appropriate' for the public idiotic. There's no logical structure behind a lot of the policies we have except that certain laws are outdated (and should be changed to reflect what is right today) or some nut case douche bag(s) is/are trying to encroach on the very ideals the U.S. was founded upon.

How Many Big Games...

[saudadelinux]

...have been thought up, created and gone through two or three versions in this timeframe?

Sending email?

[wwrmn]

Once again proving the old adage that all computer programs evolve until they can handle email.

I expect we'll see a realease right after Duke Nukem gets threaded news reader and RSS support.

Re:Sending email?

[Bogtha]

Once again proving the old adage that all computer programs evolve until they can handle email.

That's the law of software envelopment. cf. GNU Hello World, with integrated mail client.

Re:Sending email?

[smittyoneeach]

Not to mention a .Net port.

Re:Sending email?

[Senzei]

Hey, I would rather kill off spam with an RPG than play DDR with it.

Re:Sending email?

[DeafByBeheading]

I expect we'll see a realease right after Duke Nukem gets threaded news reader and RSS support.

Actually, I think the next step will be having Duke walk up to a PC and start a demo game of the forthcoming Duke Nukem Forever MMORPG. DNF then downloads and launches thist demo on your computer too, and you can play against Duke!

It's already in testing

[PFI_Optix]

On Atari 2600. They've got the splash screen, but they can't figure out how to get the other 2 GB on the cartridge.

Wait...this *is* just a late 4/1/06 joke, right?

Re:It's already in testing

[Anonymous Coward]

What's so special about the 4th January 2006?
Closed minded United Statean.

Re:It's already in testing

[Hal_Porter]

Shush. They're probably still upset about the 9th of November.

April first

[minus_273]

thsy should have posted this 2 weeks ago. This along with boot camp would have made April Fools really fun.

Relevant?

[__aajwxe560]

The brand itself seems to have lost a significant amount of value and overall relevancy to me. I remember many endless nights playing Duke 3D, and the great world it immersed you in. The character itself was great, as was the game. Everyone was excited to see what they could do next with the franchise, and they sounded really ambitious about what they wanted to do. Then, time passed.. and passed.. and passed.. and games like Deus Ex came out, which again kicked some serious ass (the sequel maybe not quite as much). So, obviously the industry has moved on, and would this game coming out even make as much as a splash as much as it once may have? I mean in all this time, they had plenty of opportunity to license another engine (again, like Deus Ex) and take the original game to the next level. Instead, I honestly have no idea what they have been doing, and in the meantime, many other great games have come along to fill the void. No matter what they come out with at this point, it is never going to live up to the expectations that they have working on this game, theoretically, for 10 years now.

Re:Relevant?

[ScrewMaster]

Well, just for old time's sake try this, if you still have your original game disc handy to get the .GRP file from. Phenomenal Duke 3D port (he's working on Shadow Warrior now) and the network support is now UDP-based, rather than IPX like the original, and works great over broadband. It's remarkable playing Duke Nukem 3D at 1600x1200 resolution with shading and a lot of other modern OpenGL effects, not to mention several other players. Runs flawlessly in Win2K and XP ... haven't tried it under Wine yet. I guess the developer is a good friend of Ken Silverman, author of the original Build engine. Whoever he is, he's one sharp cookie.

Re:Relevant?

[mqduck]

No matter what they come out with at this point, it is never going to live up to the expectations that they have working on this game, theoretically, for 10 years now.

Maybe not, but it'll be the fastest-selling game ever released.

Re:Relevant?

[x2A]

It is hard to tell whether anyone outside of the "yeah, it's gonna be released with Vista" style jokes on slashdot knows the name, apart from those who played the previous games all those years ago, it's going to be difficult to break the collective image that people have of it.

It's possible they're going to have to be marketting it less as a sequal, but as a new game. I don't think they can rely on the name they had, because it's very much a "had".

Re:Relevant?

[elrous0]

Yeah, how many gamers today even REMEMBER Duke Nuke'em at this point? It would be like releasing a "Pole Position" sequel that tried to trade on the cache of a game that most gamers only vaguely remember (if at all). Duke Nuke'em is more the butt of jokes now than a serious franchise.

-Eric

Re:Relevant?

[x2A]

"how many gamers today even REMEMBER Duke Nuke'em at this point?"

The one's that are going to have this old game imprinted deep into the memories that they have "grown up from" now...

I think they need to start again, but with a new name ;-)

Re:Relevant?

[rainman_bc]

Just to point out that Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released a long time after the original Wolfenstein 3d, and gamers still remembered the original that started it all...

Plenty of people remember Duke Nukem 3d... Few remember the side scrolling Duke Nukem. That was way more fun...

Re:Relevant?

[x2A]

yeah but will we still have our memories when forever comes out? :-p

no i'm sure it'll be fine, I'm just going along with what everyone else is saying for the hell of it *lol*

Case in point - my younger siblings don't have access to top of the range PC's, and so often will play older games. I wouldn't be surprised if duke3d was last played only 5 years ago by them, some of them are probably young enough to not have discovered better things like drugs before forever comes out to wanna spend their money on that and play it :-p

Re:Relevant?

[bobwoodard]

Do you think so at this point? They've made me wait 10 years, so why should I be in a rush to give them $59.95? Besides, after this length of time and the nightmare the development process was, I'm going to wait for the community reviews, before I even think about dropping some dough on it.

Re:Relevant?

[Mister Whirly]

"Just to point out that Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released a long time after the original Wolfenstein 3d, and gamers still remembered the original that started it all..."

I'm pretty sure ID didn't start the sequel to Wolfenstien 3D until a long time after the first one was released - unlike DNF.

Hell, I remember playing the original Castle Wolfenstien back on my old Atari 800 - now THAT was a game...

Re:Relevant?

[nuzak]

Just to point out that Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released a long time after the original Wolfenstein 3d, and gamers still remembered the original that started it all.

The irony here is really striking. Google for "Castle Wolfenstein" sometime. I played it on my Commodore 64, you young whippersnapper.

Re:Relevant?

[HappyDrgn]

"would this game coming out even make as much as a splash as much as it once may have?"
 
I think it'll be BIGGER! Just think of the headlines on every other geek/gamer site and all the gamer mags whom all have had running jokes about this game. There will be millions of posts in blogs, some news papers will even cover it as the game that finally came to be, 10 years of development and delays. The free publicity when this thing comes out is going to be huge. I'll even go into a store just to see it there, it's the only way I'll believe it, and if they have a Mac or Linux version I may just buy it. Whether anyone else will is another story.

Re:Relevant?

[rainman_bc]

C-64? I was fiddling with MS-DOS 3.3 in those days... I figured C-64 was just a toy...

Ironically I had a CGA card in my 4.77Mhz XT, and all my friends made fun of me for playing Donkey Kong on an Amber two colour display.

I skipped the C-64 era all together.

Re:Relevant?

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead, I honestly have no idea what they have been doing

From TFA: Duke was checking his email, and responding to the ones promising to add inches to one vital body part.

We'll be seeing him with smaller pistols, then.

Re:Relevant?

[timeOday]

Yeah, how many gamers today even REMEMBER Duke Nuke'em at this point?

I do... but I've switched to a console for gaming :)

Re:Relevant?

[Blakey Rat]

Serious Sam has already out-Duke Duke Nukem, and it's had an expansion pack and a sequel, both of which were fun and (most importantly) came out on time. 3DRealms needs to just give up and admit it's a scam.

Re:Relevant?

[Nasarius]

Just like Daikatana, right?

Re:Relevant?

[lysergic.acid]

That's what 3D Relams should do. They should just port Duke 3D on an updated engine (HL2, perhaps) to Windows XP. The original game was awesome--the game play, the story, the levels, etc. The only thing that really needs to be updated is the game engine. I'd be pretty excited playing the old Duke 3d levels with higher resolution graphics, greater details, and better gfx rendering. I don't need to send e-mail from the game. I just want to shoot pigcops and blow up strippers with pipe bombs.

Re:Relevant?

[shellbeach]

Just to point out that Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released a long time after the original Wolfenstein 3d, and gamers still remembered the original that started it all...

By the original, I do hope you mean Castle Wolfenstein released in the early 80's??

Re:Relevant?

[ScrewMaster]

Well, try out JonoF's port if you haven't already. It does show that there could have been a nice upward migration path for 3DRealms that would have kept the Duke franchise alive all these years. Instead, they put all their radioactive apples in the Duke Nukem Forever basket, are taking forever to release anything, and have very little to show for it. The port really does have the same feel as the original, only with substantially better graphics.

And you're right ... in particular, it was the game play that set Duke apart. The other Build engine games that followed (Shadow Warrior, Blood, Redneck Rampage and others) largely managed to keep that same playability. All those games were absolutely hysterical to play in network mode. Sometimes we'd get seven or eight people playing on my old BBS LAN ... at times we were laughing so hard we could barely shoot straight. "Ahhhh, much better!", "I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all outa gum", "NOBODY steals our chicks ... and lives." There was one map where everyone was Duking it out at ground level, and I climbed to a rooftop about twenty stories up and was dropping pipe bombs into the thick of it. Had to time it just right so they'd blow up in mid-air over everyone's heads. Nobody could figure out why they were spontaneously self-destructing. Hilarious. "What the fuck???" was the most common reaction. Of course, it did take an hour or so but once I got found out it was amazing how fast a free-for-all turned into a 7 on 1.

Another time I set up a DOS box running Carbon Copy so that I could take over anyone's keyboard remotely. I'd wait 'til they were facing a wall, say, and fire their rocket launcher. Foom! More hilarity ensued, once again followed by "What the fuck?" Yeah, we had a lot of fun back then.

sounds like a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering they've already been paid out something like 4.5 million bucks according to the article yet have after ten years completed 1 level and some "test rooms" I think it was basically a big scam never intended to be finished.

Boy they sure milked that one for all it's worth.

Uh-oh

[Kazymyr]

Wait, I thought it was released 13 days ago...

Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it.

[Midnight Thunder]

Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it.

Yeah, whatever. ;)

Want to know...

[Anonymous Coward]

...the funniest news I've read about in 2006?

They're planning a sequel.

who?

[dlc3007]

I think the most important question at this point is: Who cares? Is there anyone who is still looking forward to this game? Anyone?
I remember playing Duke Nukem 3D, but I honestly can't remember what computer I was playing it on because it was so long ago. It isn't like there haven't been three or four generations of shooters since this game was announced.
Sure the original was amusing, but it wasn't that good. Just give it up. No matter what they finally release, it won't be worth the wait and no one will really care.

Re:who?

[Soul-Burn666]

Exactly!
And we have an excellent example too: Doom3.
The first dooms were great, but Doom3 was just not very fun.
Hell, after finishing D3, I fired up jDoom (opengl engine for the original doom) and played coop with a friend. Guess what? It was a lot funner!

Re:who?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was that good. The multiplayer was instantaneous even with 8 people and the weapons were innovative. With health up to 200%, there were no one hit kills, and laser tripmines and pipebombs made it a blast. I played for untold hours with friends. Much more than quake.

Re:who?

[drew]

Ahhh, how I miss tripmines. I remember how thrilled i was when I discovered that you could put them on the door tracks so that they would trigger immediately when somebody opened the door. Pipe bombs were fun, too.

Re:who?

[rainman_bc]

The first dooms were great, but Doom3 was just not very fun.

Not a big fan of switching from flashlight to weapon and back again, over and over and over again???

=D

I agree - Doom 3 was a wonderful showcase for an amazing 3d engine, but the game itself was mediocre at best.

Unreal2 was also a showcase for their own engine, but it was one of the few fps games I enjoyed playing to the finish...

Re:who?

[Fred_A]

I remember playing Duke Nukem 3D, but I honestly can't remember what computer I was playing it on because it was so long ago.

Not our fault if you have a poor memory. I remember clearly the excitement when I ran home afer buying the huge pile of perforated card that held the game.

Ah, those were the days...

Re:who?

[nate nice]

I thought D3 was playable. It was fairly scary if you played in the dark and really took your time with things. But I agree, I was probably hoping for something a bit faster and more "in your face" like the previous ones.

Regardless, the game was beautiful and the light effects were great.

It wasn't the worst game.

I'll buy it.

[Graemee]

Hell, I get it just to put it on the shelf, whether it is crap or win.

It might look good next to BOB and Daikanata.

Re:I'll buy it.

[SpyPlane]

I was thinking the same thing. It might be a huge seller, just so people can have it on their shelves or take screenshots to put along side all of their jokes. I know I'll take a screenshot and make it my avatar on other forums!

Re:I'll buy it.

[AndyG314]

I think I'd buy it, just to see what 10 years of game developement gets you...

Re:I'll buy it.

[nuzak]

> It might look good next to BOB and Daikanata.

You should round it out with Battlecruiser 3000.

Re:I'll buy it.

[Hard_Rock_2]

BOB? The snes platformer?

If this isn't the best damn game EVER

[Red Samurai]

The universe will surely implode.

Re:THIS IS INCREDIBLE!

[ScrewMaster]

No, that was the lead balloon that 3D Realms just dropped.

they DID release a side-scrolling Duke Nukem

[Anonymous Coward]

Manhattan Project or something. I've got a copy, it's fun.

Re:they DID release a side-scrolling Duke Nukem

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right.

Re:they DID release a side-scrolling Duke Nukem

[MikeBabcock]

They did in fact, and the only version I played for that matter.

I miss Commander Keen too :-)

What they don't say:

[Anonymous Coward]

What they don't say:
the game will be of the tabletop type. You know, pencil & paper.

What the?!

[beluv]

No one quipped about the Phantom game console yet?

Re:What the?!

[Minced]

This just in, Duke Nukem Forever has just been announced as a launch title for the aptly named "Phantom" game console.

Re:What the?!

[hoborocks]

Why would they? This is the joke to end all jokes about delays. No need to call in lesser jokes.

Re:What the?!

[Aqws]

That's because that project has been given up. So, while I may be playing Duke Nukem Forever sometime near the end of this century, I will never be playing it on a Phantom game console. However jokes about playing this on Windows Vista are still valid.

Re:What the?!

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

[b]A Random Gamer:[/b] Hurry up now and finish Duke!

[b]3D Realms:[/b] Why? We running out of time?

[b]Gamer:[/b] Technically, yes. The universe is collapsing and the time dimension is starting to rotate into a physical dimension.

World Interactivity

[VorpalRodent]

Broussard also demonstrated world interactivity that includes Duke standing in front of a computer and emailing the player

So they've built a spambot that runs from inside a game? And all it took was 10 years. Wow...what innovation.

reminds me of Aero Glass

[xusr]

in a way...it's ironic that the eye candy can be the most crucial and protected thing to a company.

I think the line between useful and interfering GUIs was crossed with Mac OS 8.5, although I know some that would say it was really the move from System 6 to 7. I admit, System 7 days were Good Days. That could also be the fact that I was 8.

Wow. 10 years for....

[bobwoodard]

... a test level, a vehicle sequence and a few test rooms????

Maybe you guys don't see the true humor here...

[danpsmith]

...even the duke nukem forever april 1st joke is late!

Re:Maybe you guys don't see the true humor here...

[Crayon Kid]

At least it's not a dupe... but the time ain't lost yet.

Truths

[tomstdenis]

1. Some game website will first frown on it, then get a beta copy and hype all the neato features.

2. Other testers will then buy $800 graphic cards to test it out on their vapor cooled 5Ghz Pentium4 box, then say, meh, only gets slightly better FPS than Jazz Jackrabbit or something equally stupid

3. The game will be released, it will sit on 5 CDs instead of one DVD to keep "costs down" and pirated versions will appear with all the speech replaced with mexican festival music

4. People will realize the game is as deep as the pamphelet their latest credit card came in and will toy with the game until 17 minutes after initial release someone posts a complete walkthrough with every secret bonus and glitch found.

5. The online site will be inundated with delinquant 13 yr old sharp shooters who won't give us hard working adults a chance to just play the game and have fun.

6. Some dude in Korea will die after playing the game for 79 hours straight.

7. A full week after the release of the game a dozen patches will come out to fix various holes in the game [re: pirates] and each one will take a full 200MB to replace 39KB of code in the binary.

8. A full week and one day after release the game will become yesteryear news and people will be clamouring about the latest "let's kill the mutant aliens in obviously dangerous situations game" ... oh fuck call it Far Cry 2.

9. The folk at 3DR will be vindicated then bought out by MSFT and outsourced to India to make the "books" look good.

Tom

Re:Truths

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

> 3. The game will be released, it will sit on 5 CDs instead of one
> DVD to keep "costs down" and pirated versions will appear with all
> the speech replaced with mexican festival music

Cool! Where can I download this patch?

> 6. Some dude in Korea will die after playing the game for 79 hours straight.

When Quake came out, soon after I got the 3.5 CTF super-patch. I recall seeing a guy run by with the glowing, waving flag, and this holy light shone down on me. This, multiplayer, team-based online gaming, was what all human game history was leading up to. I played for over 36 hours, from 11:00 AM to 11:30 PM of the next day I only stopped because I was literally falling asleep at the keyboard (woke up standing in the water where that guy grabs the grenade launcher in QDQR so he can "take a shortcut" on a later level.

> 7. A full week after the release of the game a dozen patches
> will come out to fix various holes in the game [re: pirates]
> and each one will take a full 200MB to replace 39KB of code in the binary.

People will find out their saved games are useless after the patch, will complain about it online, and get called "asses" by developers for not reading paragraph 472 of the release notes carefully enough.

Re:Truths

[Anonymous Coward]

6. Some dude in Korea will die after playing the game for 79 hours straight.

That one left me laughing for about 10 minutes.

Re:Truths

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

10. Profit!!!

Re:Truths

[default luser]

Hmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Re:Truths

[yem]

Nice :) Unfortunately there are only two real possibilities:

1) The game is never released. The idiots in charge finally can the project, like they should have five years ago.

OR

1) The game is released
2) 5 people buy it
3) 5000 people download it for a laugh and delete it 5 minutes later

Re:Truths

[dlelash]

Wait, which game are you describing here? I have a bunch like that.

Manhattan Project

[DiscoNick]

This game came and went when Duke Nukem Forever bashing was at its peak. Manhattan Project was more of a side scroller with a 3d twist, but was still a ton of fun. I don't know why this was stayed under the radar, I found it a ton of fun personally... and it still had the twisted humor.

Demo of Duke Nukem Forever

Re:Manhattan Project

[DiscoNick]

Apologies for the erroneous comment, The Demo is for the Manhattan Project!!

one comment.

[Fiachra06]

Can the moderators forgive me for not saying anything of value but:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! pull the other one.

Evolve?

[Chuck Chunder]

Seems feasible, it clearly isn't intelligent design.

Oh please

[thepotoo]

There is more viral marketing behind this game than you could possibly imagine. This game is a fucking legend. Every 10-year-old on AOL knows that when DNF is released, hell will freeze over, Elvis will return, and Linux will gain 100% marketshare.

Because of this, the instant it's released, a million people will rush to buy the game just because of the hype.

It may be that a week later, the game will turn out to be shitty, and no one will care, but I'm predicting that the game will at least cover its development costs within that first week.

Re:Oh please

[Jonny_eh]

The game would need to cost $200 just to cover the development costs. Can you imagine how much the salary of 20-30 people, over 10 years costs? Plus the cost of licensing technology, and office space!

At this point, they're just going to have to try to lessen their losses, and spit out a few quick games after, built on the technology. I am shocked that this company still exists. They must have made a lot of money on duke3d and max payne to pay for this exercise in hopelessness.

Re:Oh please

[Braino420]

but I'm predicting that the game will at least cover its development costs within that first week.

I'll take that bet, hiring a handful of programmers for 10 years can't be cheap.

Oh... what's that? No programmers? Only monkeys? Everything is clear to me now.

You make a good point though, I know I will probably go out and buy it without reading any reviews or anything. Then again, I still don't think it will see the light of day.

Re:Oh please

[dan828]

The old adage "research is never wasted" is somewhat relevant to this subject. One would expect that all of the work they were doing for DNF was used as a tech base for their other games that were released.

Re:Oh please

[Surt]

Even if the game only had 20 people working on it, at $50k per year, for 10 years, that's 10 million dollars. You have to sell more than a million units to make that back (developers rarely get $10 per unit ... i'd be surprised if they can get $5 per unit).

Re:Oh please

[nuzak]

> Because of this, the instant it's released, a million people will rush to buy the game just because of the hype.

Daikatana didn't exactly fly off the shelves, unless you count sales associates throwing it into the remainder bin.

Re:Oh please

[iamlucky13]

Generally, the total cost to a company per employee (add on costs of office space, benefits, support staffing) runs 2-3 times their salary, so figure more like $20-30 million. Yikes.

That fact notwithstanding, the money is mostly already spent (assuming this isn't just another joke article). If they drop the game now, the money is definitely gone. If they finish it and release it, they have a chance to recoup at least some of the money, assuming the cost of finishing it doesn't exceed the net income from selling it. It probably wouldn't fare much worse than Doom 3 did.

I'm still really skeptical. I have a hard time believing this isn't just a joke, and that 3DR didn't sink the project 5 years or so ago.

Re:Oh please

[RovingSlug]

Can you imagine how much the salary of 20-30 people, over 10 years costs? Plus the cost of licensing technology, and office space!

Approximate $100k per person (avg salary + 30%), 25 people == $25 million. Add in, say, $5 million for everything else, total $30 million.

If they receive $30/copy, they would need to sell 1 million copies to cover the development cost. Something the grandparent was suggesting is feasible given the hype.

Re:Oh please

[JollyFinn]

I'll take that bet, hiring a handful of programmers for 10 years can't be cheap.

The group probably has few programmers many artists, and level designers. And the average salary for everyone is probably about 70k$ if they have standard salary. Then if we assume team size of 25 and developement time of 10 years. We get 17Million. Now if they sell for 49.95 from which the developer gets 20$ cut. Which means that if they sell 1 Million copies they have their costs covered.

And it doesn't mean if its good or bad. Its a legend. I'll probably buy it if they make Linux version, or next computer after its release will come with windows, so that I could dual boot to play it. I might even consider buying it just for decorating my room even if I couldn't run it with my computer.

Its a legend, and there are probably over 100 million gamers all over the world. The minimum sales number for DNF probably is around 20 million copies if they finish it before next Christmas. Think of it. Release it early enough to get it to stores before next Christmass season, or more accurately, early enough that stores could order after first weeks sales enough of them to fill the shelves again, for christmass shoppers.

Re:Oh please

[maj1k]

Because of this, the instant it's released, a million people will rush to buy the game just because of the hype. a million people might download it for free but i seriously doubt it will sell well.

Re:Oh please

[thepotoo]

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Thanks, RovingSlug.

Re:Oh please

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and then George Lucas will file a patent infringement lawsuit, claiming they stole his business model.

Re:Oh please

[J-1000]

Because of this, the instant it's released, a million people will rush to buy the game just because of the hype.

Just like they did Daikatana?

What's the point?

[biggerboy]

From a marketing standpoint, Duke Nukem lost its brand effectiveness a long time ago (and arguably morphed into something very negative). It's like releasing Q*bert Reloaded. Who's going to buy this damn thing?

LOL

[GmAz]

I think its just too funny to see a) that Wiki has DNF listed in their site and also b) the image used on their page. That image alone really dates the game. I vote they use that original image for their auctual game box.

E-mail?

[The-Bavis]

If the big feature they have is that the game's character can e-mail you a form letter then the game is in even worse shape than I ever imagined. They don't talk about innovative gameplay at all, but they were sure to show off how Duke can write you an e-mail probably telling you to "keep it real!"

This "feature" should be a late addition in the final production or something a programmer added on their lunch breaks, not something to show off.

Re:E-mail?

[poot_rootbeer]

Duke can write you an e-mail probably telling you to "keep it real!"

I guess the only question is whether the open SMTP relay that the game uses to send you this email will be installed on your PC along with the game binaries, or whether it will be a centralized service that any player or other person who needs to send mail can access across the internet.

What Went Wrong?-Conjunction Function.

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet everyone else has already surpassed the Unreal 2.0 engine, and maybe even Unreal 3.0.

How long is it gona take?

[mlopes]

Are they going to be developing Duke Nukem forever?

A serious Attention Whore, maybe?

[ip_freely_2000]

George B. should just shut up until he either sells the game or delivers it. He's wayyy past "hype" and moving past "pity" onto "people wishing he would just go away"

Why does 3DR bother? This game will get crapped on no matter how good it really is. The common refrain will be "It took them ten years to do this? "

They would be MUCH farther ahead to sell the game rights to someone else. 3DR gets money now, the new developer will catch all the crap when the game is launched and 3DR gets to say "Well, gee. Maybe we should have picked someone else."

Duh Nukem

[Doc Ruby]

"The problem is that when we show it, people are going to be like, Yeah, whatever. Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it."

Inspired, insightful thinking like that is getting Duke Nukem finished and downloaded to your computer at lightning speed.

Blame Walmart!

[happyfrogcow]

I bet their electronic game reviewers won't let this see the light of day.... yeah, that's the reason it's so late.

No kidding!

[The Cubelodyte]

Duke standing in front of a computer and emailing the player, if he provides his email address for the game

Damn, that's pretty cutting-edge, being able to store and retrieve string data. Valve and id had better watch their backs.

Re:No kidding!

[LegendLength]

Damn, that's pretty cutting-edge, being able to store and retrieve string data.

But this is special string data that has been touched by the blessed DNF engine (may it bring us everlasting joy amen).

Release date: September 29, 2006

[Mathiasdm]

If one can believe Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/stores/deta il/-/videogames/B00005NCEZ/pictures/ref%3Ddp_pics_ smp/202-8135606-0966225

It even has screenshots...

Re:Release date: September 29, 2006

[Mostly a lurker]

Release date: September 29, 2006, but note that release dates are subject to change.

Does the Wayback Machine archive Amazon? Tempting to see if they had something similar predicting September 29, 2005 a year ago.

Re:Release date: September 29, 2006

[Mathiasdm]

Thou art correct...

Sorry about the ugly link, but slashdot doesn't seem to like me putting it in ...

http://web.archive.org/web/20050224222429/http://w ww.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/vid eogames/B00005NCEZ/pictures

Copy Cats!

[basketbeatle]

I liked it better the first time it came out when it was called Serious Sam 1+2!

Re:Postponed Again

[lymond01]

Duke Nukem Forever postponed waiting on release of next version of SeaMonkey. Single-Player demo...err...video clip...umm...sound byte...sigh...unedited text from blog at 11!

DNF value

[Anonymous Coward]

...all I can say is that DNF had better be at least as funny as the original, and have as many well designed levels with all sort of hidden features and gimmicks, although I must admit that I really only played the first few levels or so SP as we usually played DN on a LAN, after beating DOOM to death over a LAN, although I DID end up playing more of DOOM SP than I did DN. I really don't know why as DN had some really neat features for the time, and some of the background and sound bites were plain hilarious whereas DOOM was just another Id slag through a shooter that looked nice(for the time, of course DN looked better as I recall, it's been a while...).

Get rich quick... in ten years

[Headcase88]

This gives me an idea.

1. Announce game
2. Start working on it 10 years from now
3. ???
4. Profit!

*MIB memory-eraser thing flashes*

All right everybody, we at Headcase88 Enterprises are starting a new game, simply named "Ben". Scheduled release date: Summer 2007. If it takes us much longer than that, expect an awesome game!

It was almost done...

[chadamir]

It was almost done so they decided to throw more programmers at it to speed it up. So we can expect to see this never...

not just graphics

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, according to them they are relying on interactivity and storyline, rather than just eye candy (i.e. graphics). I think they are clear on this point, at least in their forums. They've also rewritten a lot of the Unreal 2.0 engine to support interactivity.

Quake 3 was a good example of excellent eye candy - but crap for interactivity and storyline. Pretty boring after awhile.

FWIW I'm definitely looking forward to DNF, so I guess you could call me a fanboy and all that...

Re:not just graphics

[Karma Farmer]

Actually, according to them they are relying on interactivity and storyline, rather than just eye candy (i.e. graphics)

Yeah, they're done with the textures, physics engines, and most of the guns, and now they're trying to figure out the story, monsters, and levels.

Apparently, they think storyline and interactivity are so important, they decided to do them last.

Re:not just graphics

[Narishma]

Err, Quake 3 was not supposed to have any "interactivity" (whatever that means) or storyline. It was a multiplayer game designed for competition.

Re:not just graphics

[Anonymous Coward]

relying on interactivity and storyline

potentially very, very dangerous... sounds like what Daikatana was going for, isn't it? "design is god!!!"

Even if it does release...

[LightningTH]

Even if it does release, due to all of the hype, it will have to out perform every game on the market both graphically and in the story. If it fails to do that, it will flop very quickly. What is the point of developing a game this long if you can not even out do the current market?

Mod parent funny

[elrous0]

Man, I wish I had some points for ya.

-Eric

Old gameplay tropes

[Benzido]

One of the interesting things about this is that, in the 10 years since this was announced, the FPS genre has been and gone. After Duke3d, there has been quake, quake2, quake3, doom3, etc etc. The poor critical reception of doom3 is an indication that old gameplay tropes won't fly anymore. It is easy to forget sometimes, but games have developed radically in a lot of ways other than graphically.

It's a reasonable educated guess that a 10-year-old game design will be received very poorly. It's kind of like if you spent a hundred years developing a missile defence system.

All Together Now....

[pedalman]

Big F****** Deal!

DNF and graphics

[sprintstar]

DNF shouldn't need fancy graphics. Ok so make them better than DN3D, but that wouldn't be hard. My friends and I were still playing DN3D together, long after Quake (GLQuake!) and Quake II were out, simply because it was sooo good. All DNF needs is Duke (of course), his attitude, a good interactive environment, some big guns, and lots of aliens to kill. We used to play this level that was set in a supermarket; having an RPG firefight in the milk section was just pure class, milk everywhere..

Considering what this game has been through...

[wjcofkc]

It would be a nice surprise if it turned out to be one hell of a game. Then again I haven't been a gamer since quake 1 and quake world over a modem... those were the days The fact that it started with the quake 1 engine really adds perspective:

http://www.gamepro.com/computer/pc/games/previews/ images/50334-1-2.jpg

Then upgraded to the quake 2 engine:

http://games.cnews.ru/trophy/screens/duke-nukem-fo rever/aai.jpg

Not sure what engine this is from 2001: http://www.gamenavigator.ru/pub/gallery/news/news2 005100605.jpg 2001

If you are out of the loop like me:

http://www.planetduke.com/duke4/faq/

I can't find a single current screenshot on the web and am very curious. Anyone got a lead on that?

Re:Considering what this game has been through...

[TheZorch]

wjcofkc wrote:
Not sure what engine this is from 2001: http://www.gamenavigator.ru/pub/gallery/news/news2 005100605.jpg 2001
====================

That would be the Unreal Engine. I had a video with a hard-rock version of "Grab Bag" (the Duke Nukem 3D theme song) showing different scenes from the game. One was a ride in a mine car, another was Duke on the back of a truck firing at space ships chasing the truck down a highway. He was supposed to have a female companion who followed along as his assistant.

Burnouts?

[Yuioup]

I wonder how the people working on DNF managed to keep it up without having seriuos burnouts...

I mean... hearing the phrase "Hail to the King Baby" day-in day-out for 10 years must drive anybody INSANE!!!

You have to admire their perseverance. Somebody should award them with a world record or something...

Y

Re:Burnouts?

[XO]

I can only assume that Broussard is the only person at 3dr that has been there through the whole time. Everyone else has to have turned several times a year.,

its still real!

[Anonymous Coward]

Its still real to me damnit!

Uhhh... Not exactly a recipe for success

[Jugalator]

Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it.

With a motivation among the devs at this level, what quality can one expect from the game? :-p

Ah it'll be out in 2000 and never then.

[Xest]

I guess it'll be released roughly around the same time as Prey and TeamFortress II?

terrible

[Flunitrazepam]

'The problem is that when we show it, people are going to be like, Yeah, whatever. Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it.'"

What kind of terrible attitude is this? I read this as "we realized we really screwed up, and that the product isn't even really very good... we are all sick of it and just want to put it behind us".

I'd feel a little more loyalty to the product after investing 10 years of my life into it, and if I didn't... I'd know it was time to admit defeat, chalk it up to (extremely painful) lessons learned, and move on to something else.

Re:terrible

[jjohnson]

At this point, they can't say they've invested 10 years in it. What they've done is spend the last 10 years on 3-4 failed projects, and one (bearing a superficial resemblence to a design doc that's ten years old) that may see the light of day.

Mother 3

[Nin10dude]

Okay, I know this is off-topic, but, being the huge Mother fan that I am, I just have to point out that Mother 3 was in development longer than DNF has been--Mother deserves more attention. =(

FarCry

[Mad Ogre]

Contract for the Crytek game engine... Because that would be perfect for the Duke's universe. Then concentrate on clever level designs and all the funny stuff that made Duke so fun to begine with.

EMACS!

[Anonymous Coward]

> Duke standing in front of a computer and emailing the player

Duken Nukem Forever - The EMACS of games!

no way

[conJunk]

man, it's just a bunch of marketing hype... this thing will ship the same time Duke Nukem Forever ships...

what? oh....

damned if they do, damned if they don't

[carninja]

Stop reading too much into it. He's saying exactly what he's saying: After nearly a decade, it will be literally impossible to "blow away" anyone. Best case scenario, they'll get a "Well, it took long enough, and it doesn't suck, so I guess that's good". Worst case scenario they'll get "All that wait and we get this steaming pile of crap?". No matter what they do, they're fucked. It's just been too long.

Hardware Requirements for DNF

[Anonymous Coward]

The video hardware requirements for DNF have already been known for years. It's written for the Bitboys Oy's "Glaze3D" card. As soon as the Glaze3D hits the store shelves, DNF will be right alongside the new video card.

other considerations

[scronline]

At this point. I personally would like to see it, but I'm not expecting anything extravegant from it. I wouldn't even rely on it for solid online play. The fact that they have taken 10 years to make the game doesn't say much about their speed. Thus, patches to fix hacks, flaws, and various other things could take as long as...you guessed it, 10 years. I remember Valve really screwing up game play with their patches and updates...I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened here.

Either rate, I know that if/when it ever comes to market, it won't be something I'll rush to buy. I've waited this long, what's another 6 months...year....10 years. Hell, I might just wait until it's in the bargin bin. There's this little saying that fits well here. "Don't let your mouth overload your A&&" and we can't forget "When you set your expectations too high, you're setting yourself up for disappointment"

Drew

[wwphx]

I can't help looking at the block haircut and the glasses and start thinking "If Drew Carrey went to the gym and took steroids...."

"Whose line is it anyway, suckers!"

Honestly, at this point, we don't care.

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

This will be the saddest failure in all of video game history, if it isn't already. I mean, honestly, they are wasting time having the in game character EMAIL the player? If this is where they think video games are headed, everyone involved in the development of this game should be lined up and shot.

Why would anybody buy this game? This industry is quckly tiring of one vapid 3rd person shooter after another. Buy the time DNF ( Did Not Finish more like it ) comes out, 3rd person shooters will be fads long forgotten.

Can we say mismanagement? The amount of time and money invested in this game is astonishing, and anyone worth their salt in this industry would have either given up, or tied up the game a long time ago. By now, if they are still struggling to develop the game engine, then either use the engine from Halflife 2, Doom3 or Unreal Tournament. Give up trying to make your own engine, it ain't working.

It ain't rocket science, yet you think these guys are in the processed of making the most astonishing game in history. Its FREAKIN DUKE NUKEM. I mean, people didn't play this game for a transcendental mind blowing experience.

In the end, people just want to blow sh*t up. Not get spam from their video games.

Re:Honestly, at this point, we don't care.

[Cederic]

One of the joys of Duke 3D was the interactivity of the environment.

Almost everything you tried to do something to, did something.

I'm playing FEAR right now. There're phones, computers, fire extinguishers, desks, a ton of scenery. And it's all just scenery. I'm sat there going "hang on a minute. A decade ago FPS games had more interactivity than this!"

I go up to a computer in Duke Nukem Forever, I damn well expect to be able to browse the web on that thing. I expect to be able to run Google searches, click the links, navigate, check my own email. Then pull out a rocket launcher and blow the computer to pieces.

That's an immersive interactive environment. That and the humour is why Duke Nukem Forever was so eagerly awaited, long before it became a legend.

If it delivers that, I'll buy it. Hell yes.

OMG! Ponies!

[JoaoPinheiro]

It seems like the guys at 3DR really DO have a problem with release dates.

How can anyone expect these guys to release the game if they can't even release their April Fools' Day joke on time! You're 12 days late! =P

Failure to Launch

[paulkoan]

I will be disappointed if DNF ever sees the light of day, and I am confident that the slashdot crown will agree with some cajoling into reflection.

There are only two outcomes worth considering:

1) Duke Nukem Forever will be released and will be amongst the best games ever; will be surrounded by attention and like a pitiful candle will be snuffed out before it has fully lit up the room. And the DNF vapourware storyline will be lost forever.

2) Duke Nukem Forever will be released and be as crap as Daiketana, and we will scoff and say "I told you" ... "No, I told YOU" until the cows come home shortly after. And the DNF vapourware storyline will be lost forever.

So frankly, DNF has a lot more mileage going for it if it is never released, as long as it is touched upon once in a while and these dialogs take place.

How can they not realize...

[Cold-NiTe]

...just what sort of a biblical failure they are about to produce? Nothing they do will be adequate. Nothing they do will satisfy. Nothing they do will be enough. At this point in development, if we can call it that, if there's even an official 'point in development' for a game that's been under construction for ten years, 3DRealms can't even have normal marketing for their game. Worse yet, anything they say becomes some strange and surreal form of anti-marketing in which everyone the world over that knows about this game's history gets a good 10 minute laugh after debasing them for an equivalent period of time.

Who exactly are they trying to sell this game to? God knows it can't be any of us.

I don't buy games out of pity, do you?

Re:How can they not realize...

[XO]

they don't need a normal marketing. All they need to do is post a headline on their web page. "It's out." By taking this long, they have saved their entire advertising budget.

Re:The email would probably say:

[Zantetsuken]

something like "Stop waiting for DNF to come out and get a life, or at least play HL2, FEAR - as old as the DNF project is, go play HL1! And oh ya, we forgot to mention - ZOMG!11 P0N135 LOLZ1!!"

Jarndyce and Jarndyce

[awol]

Despite the cliche, it seems that Duke Nukem has become the "Jarndice and Jarndice" of the modern age, reflecting on the evils of software development rather than those of the Chancery division. In all seriousness DN3D was such a pathetic story it would be funny.

I wont be surprised if they make more money from the book about what not to do with a game/generic development project than they do from the software itself.

Re:Jarndyce and Jarndyce

[aldheorte]

For reference, the parent post is referencing an epic and long running legal case over inheritance featured in the Charles Dickens book Bleak House set and written in the mid-19th century.

Re:Jarndyce and Jarndyce

[Chris Mattern]

Should be "Jarndyce v. Jarndyce", beying an actual legal suit, of course.

Chris Mattern

Re: The reason for no screenshots

[Zantetsuken]

is that DNF cant be displayed on conventional screens. All the faqs and articles forgot to mention that you'll have to wait 50 years till it comes out when M$ releases Vista (or maybe even later with Cairo - I remember somebody on /. posting about how Cairo was the M$ Windows Forever os where people ask if Windows will ever have such and such features and M$ replies "Ya, sure, in Cairo"), and holographic displays get invented - not only can you email yourself from ingame, you can do it from a 3d holo-display!

I know their pain - JAST USA

[peter Payne]

If you know what bishoujo games are (or as we call them in the US marketplace, "PC dating-sim games"), then you might know my company, JAST USA http://www.jastusa.com/. We are an indies distributor that licenses Japanese bishoujo games and translates them, and in our history, we have had frustrating 4 year-or-so development cycles for games, which really sucked. One game that took a long time for us to release did so because we came out with it right as Windows XP came out, but the engine wasn't compatible -- so we had to rework it with a new engine. In retrospect, it would have been better to skip the work and just move on to new products, but we have a small but dedicated customer base and never tell them something can't be done, if we can handle it. I just try to learn from my mistakes and make things go more smoothly next time.

(Currently at work beta testing a game we announced in 2003 or so...)

Duke Nukem Forever Released?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and Jesus is coming back this Easter!

The evils of PC development

[Jeppe Salvesen]

This is a good illustration of how evil the PC is as a gaming platform: If the development time is substantial, the ground you are standing on will change and your development efforts will be wasted.

If they had developed this title for a console, it would have been finished in much less time - since they would not have felt pressured into changing their underlying engine way too many times.. Heck, it might have been a dreamcast title!

DNF

[midifarm]

DNF = Duke Nukem Forever = Did Not Finish

Re:DNF

[Mike Buddha]

When it's finally released, I'm betting:

Duke Nukem Forever = Daikatana 2

Wow!

[tonigonenstein]

There are so late that the game is updated before it is even released!

20 years then

[NutscrapeSucks]

Most games have forgotten the original Castle Wolfenstein game, apparently including you.

Re:20 years then

[Gilmoure]

I still have the floppy installers for the Mac version. It should still run on my Quadra 650, assuming the disks can still be read.

Re:20 years then

[NutscrapeSucks]

You obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. The original Castle Wolfenstien was for the Apple II.

Just because it's a dumb old joke---

[tenzig_112]

-- doesn't mean it still makes me laugh like an idiot.

Duke Nukem: Sometime

Lets just be glad...

[Anonymous Coward]

...that none of the game store were taking preorders on this game. Imagine getting a call from EB, "The release date of DNF has been set back. We apologize for any inconvenience" every six months for the last 10 years.

comming soon Duke Nukem Forever 2 !!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

takes forever times 2 to create

George B. on Shacknews

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy is a regular over on Shacknews. When Oblivion came out he immediately came on and proclaimed it GOTY. While that's great and all it sure doesn't bode well for DNF for at least 2006, because anyone who knows George B. and his ego he would never proclaim anything GOTY over his precious DNF. But yeah anyway he's obsessing and playing Oblivion yet he's supposed to be the project manager for this. Forget it people.

Actually there is was a new Duke Nukem game...

[im_thatoneguy]

You could release a side scrolling version of Duke Nukem (a la Duke Nukem II) that I would play given a good story line and fun puzzle-solving levels.

You mean like Duke Nukem Manhattan Project?

Re:Actually there is was a new Duke Nukem game...

[F_Scentura]

It wasn't developed by 3dRealms, though. They farmed it out to another company.

My dilemma

[dgrati]

I go through the same dilemma when I want to buy a new computer! "Let's wait for them to work up on the new physics card"/

Can't wait for the movie

[jerryodom]

They made Doom already so its time for the Duke Nukem. Really at the rate they're going they could cast the movie, make the movie and relase both at the same time.

I'd buy a copy

[Jerry Smith]

I probably won't have the supported HW, so playing it is not really an option. But picture this: 40 years from now, I'll sit in my rocking chair with a grandson on my knee, and I'll show him the box, and I'll mutter something like "Good things come to those who wait" or "'Forever' can take some time".

Please let me dream!

Understatement of the year

[SoulRider]

The problem is that when we show it, people are going to be like, Yeah, whatever. Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it

DNF?

[odyaws]

Does anyone else think it's funny that in racing (say, at the Olympics) when someone crashes or otherwise can't complete the course it's a "DNF" - for "Did Not Finish"?

Any plans for a Hurd version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because anyday now...

The game would be cool if

[Paul Slocum]

they played off the joke. Made some levels "unfinished" and incorporated that into the gameplay and story. It could be pretty funny and unique, and could even reduce dev time.

Every video they released

[TACNailed]

Every video they released of DNF so far has been awesome. Therefore we have good reason to believe the final product will be awesome as well. Patience, patience.

Re:Honestly, at this point we just want to finish

[conteXXt]

oh that tagline........very good my friend.

I was about to attack 'learnt' (to see if you learn).

Thank you, it was I who 'learnt'.

Main Entry: learnt
Pronunciation: 'l&rnt
chiefly British past and past participle of LEARN

and me being Canadian that one I should have known.

Now if I only cared as much for grammar.....and puctuation.

Fengshui is what went wrong

[manifoldronin]

The morale of the stories is this - if you ever want your project to release, don't give it a name that:

• either kicks off an infinite recursion, or
• has "forever" in it.

Truth?

[Anonymous Coward]

Going forward I think all Duke Nukem Forever postings should be placed under Humour. You know because "it's funny". :)

Re:post

[IndigoParadox]

I wish I could mod you up for your cleverly delayed first post, the subtlety of which escapes the other mods. =O\

Heres my question to them

[Anonymous Coward]

which I could never find the answer to elsewhere. Was Manhatten Project what DNF supposed to be but they then went to newer technology? and instead of scrapping all the work they did on it they released it as an 'interim' game?

Kalinga Valkyrie

Why does everybody gotta keep bashin'

[Odocoileus]

Come on man, sometimes shit just happens. Sure maybe some lesser games should have come out along the way to keep the fires burning, but thats just water under the bridge now. They are still just some people like us. They are probably feeling a little uncomfortable right now, pouring a part of their lives into a game that people are already predicting to be of mediocre quality.

I am ready for your game whenever you are, great game makers.

Like I Said When I First Heard This

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, right. And monkeys will fly out my butt-cheeks.

The Evolution of Sprites

[HTH NE1]

But what if they didn't throw away the earlier work, and as you advanced in the game, it would change to more and more advanced rendering engines? And what if the transition between engines were seamless?

Imagine the typical "evolution of man" image, but instead depicting the increasing qualities of rendering Duke Nukem and the world around him. Kinda like this image from ReBoot.