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Gangs on the Internet
mikesd81 writes "Apparently street gangs have gotten Web-savvy. Web Bangers are posting potentially incriminating photos and taunts on their websites. Police departments suddenly faced with gangs are looking for help on the gangs' own easy-to-find Web sites. The director of the National Gang Crime Research Center has stated "In order to understand any subculture, be it al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs, you have to be able to know their own language.'
Knox said it's important for police to learn how to read between the lines on gang Web sites and blogs. Just as time on the streets has given gang investigators the ability to read the hieroglyphics of wall graffiti, time on the Web helps them understand arcane Web clues. Gang identifiers, such as tattoos, graffiti tags, colors and clothing often are embedded in each site."
Publish a Grand Theft Auto MMORPG and use google adsense to advertise it on gang blogs...take real world crime into virtual space....and make money....wonderful.
Nooooo!
python>>> q="'";s='q="%c";s=%c%s%c;print s%%(q,q,s,q)';print s%(q,q,s,q)
I got a bewolf cluster of guns, cross me and I will pop a cap in your boxen!
How long until gangbangr.com 2.0 websites talking about the gangosphere?
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Looking for a G with html and 187 skillz
In order to understand any subculture, be it al-Qaida [sic], witches, devil worshippers or gangs, you have to be able to know their own language.
I'm sorry, but comparing witches to Al-Quaeda is a bit of an ad absurdum. We all know witches are more powerful, which is why we dealt with these terrorists in the 1600's, and did not not deal with the latter terrorists in the 1980's when we could have.
How did Wicca get lumped into a sentence with these other three groups?
Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here. We don't go on Crusades to conquer someone else's Holy Land...
Well, either that or just don't visit the websites.
Interesting stuff. Targetting the idiots who are lower rank in gangs seems like a really good idea, given some of the spectacularily stupid stuff people admit on the internet. Can't help but feel this won't catch any of the serious gangsters though.
I got shot for wearing that Windows teal blue shade.... possibly may not have been gang related however.
"Web Bangers are posting potentially incriminating photos and taunts on their websites."
You don't frighten us, Crips pig-dogs! Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries! Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time-a!
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
nah . . . it's not quite the same.
harmonious design
Silly journalist: publishing 'potentially incriminating photos and taunts' is hardly savvy, even if it via a new medium
Oh, so this is why there's so much "tagging" on the Internets nowadays.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
No no no...
They mean the kind of witches with wart covered noses, flying brooms, and bubbling cauldrons..
"In order to understand any subculture, be it al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs, you have to be able to know their own language."
Witches? Devil-worshippers?
Is this from the Nation Gun Crime Research Centre or the Ordo Hereticus?
cmd-q.co.uk - some sort of stupid fucking internet bullshit
As for Witches--its a good way to share a love potion or where to get oraganic eyes of newt.
[J]
You almost made sense, Mr. NGCRC. Until the line In order to understand any subculture, be it al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs, you have to be able to know their own language.
Then I knew you're a loonie.
Witches? Hello? Could you join us in the 21st century? If people want to believe in witchcraft, so be it. It's not like they mount their brooms and fly off to some mountain anymore. That's the fad of the past, it's been over for like 400 years by now.
No wonder that they spend their time puzzling what those tags could mean. I mean, if you can't get a clue after 400 years when it's hit you with a broomstick... MAN, some people are slow!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well, if you're such a peaceful bunch, you've got nothing to fear from their god, now have you?
Made me immediately think of the gang from Clockwork Orange.
"That was a real kick and good for laughs and lashings of the old ultraviolence. "
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Seriously...secret handshakes?
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
"Yeah man...those 18th street guys are badass. They have secret handshakes and everything..."
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
I have actually seen footage on youtube of crime being showed of as if it is something to be proud of.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bMJjIFZYq3I
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhNuETvjakw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=w2G_PwKwK7Y
I am not a witch. They dressed me like this. The mentality of someone (associated with the police) who compares terrirists to witches and devil worshipers cares me terribly. Leave the devil worshipers and witches alone and go after territorists and street gangs, eh? To count that's two groups that are actually dangerous and two groups whose existance is clearly protected by the costitution. I now return you to your regularly scheduled geekery.
Hahahahahah. Good one.
Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
She turned me into a newt!
No, mikesd81, you got it all wrong. You meant to say:
"Apparently street gangs have gotten Web-savvy in all flavas. Web Hustla is post'n potentially weed-smokin' photos n taunts on they websites. Police departments suddenly faced gangs is look'n fo` help on tha gangs own easy-to-find Web sites. The director of tha National Gizzay Crime Research Cracka has stated "In gangsta ta understand any subcultizzles be it al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippa or gangs, you have ta be able ta know they own language fo' sheezy. Knox said its important fo` po-po ta learn how ta read between tha lines on giznang Web sites n blogs ta help you tap dat ass. J-to-tha-izzust as tizzle on tha streets has given G-to-tha-izzang investizzles tha ability ta read tha hierizzles of wizzle graffiti, tizzy on tha Web helps tizzy understand arcane Web clues . Nigga get shut up or get wet up. G-to-tha-izzang motherfucka such as tattoos, graffiti tizzags, colors n cloth'n often is embedded in each site."
(Thanks to gizoogle!)
myspace hardly requires any leet geek skills... this is just a sign that the web has got dumb enough for dumb people to use it.
Go and easily be part of one of the coolest gangs in your town... You'll have a GF (yeah, a *real* one, not a real-doll) a convertible, some guns, everyone's gonna treat you respectful...
Go and f*cking build a website, the stuff you do best
hmmm.... that sounds like it has different connotations
nothing
01001001001001110110110001101100001000000110011001 11010101100011011010110110100100100000011010110110 10010110110001101100001000000111100101100001001000 00011101110110100101110100011010000010000001101101 01111001001000000110001101101000011000010110100101 110010
Somehow I think, whether or not he need fear the God, he'd be smart in this day and age to fear the God's followers.....
Their god isn't the problem, it's the fanatical followers who feel that despite worshiping a peaceful, loving god they can still be violent and hateful.
Oh, Please. The article did not say "Wicca." It said "witches." Give it up.
The "Witches are Happy Peaceful People" diatribe is even slighthly more annoying then the "Hackers are Happy Curious People" screed. Both words mean something else in popular parlance, and that's all there is to it. I have more sympathy for the "hackers-are-good" crowd, because they legitimately lost their word to a media gone suddenly cyber-melodramtic, but the Buckland and Gardner crew deliberately took an already negatively charged word, stuck it up there with all the other chips on their shoulders, and tried to win it back -- in the most irritating and condescending way possible -- from all us ignorant "mundanes." Sure, good luck with that...
Oh, yeah, about those Crusades: many, many, centuries ago, my li'l crystal polisher. Better analogy would have been, "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here. We don't crash airplanes into someone else's building in the name of our goddess..."
oooooh, i'm gonna get modded down so-o-o-o-o fast.....!
I am starting the 'Broken Windows' Gang on the internet.
The gang's activities will primarily consist of breaking Windows, online and off.
No pre-requisites for joining except for 1337 hacking sk177z and good aim.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
http://nickciske.com/tools/binary.php
Balmer!
Police departments suddenly faced gangs are looking for help on the gangs' own easy-to-find Web sites.
What the hell does that mean?
Essentia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
If public web sites help the police track down perpertrators of illegal activities, that's a good thing. But I worry about statements like these:
"In order to understand any subculture, be it al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs, you have to be able to know their own language," Knox said.
Devil worship and witchcraft aren't illegal in the US and are rarely linked to illegal activities; the police has no business getting involved in that "subculture" at all.
Furthermore, even when it comes to al Quaeda and gangs, they should be careful: after all, if we can get al Quaeda and gangs to limit their activities to free speech on the Internet, then that's a good thing. We should encourage these groups to use the Internet, not drive them away.
Witches !- Wicca. Traditionally in Europe it meant devil worshippers and possible followers of some fairly nasty practices. It also covers African witchcraft which frequently involves murder. You may wish to dissociate Wicca from that. Fair enough. However it is not reasonable for you to expect to redefine the meanings of the words involved in line with your beliefs. Wicca is essentially a modern invention (not one I have much sympathy with but that should not matter to you) and I would need a lot of convincing that it has any meaningful links to either ancient paganism or most old traditions of witchcraft so I do not see any reason to re-define the word witchcraft in line with Wicca. Ancient pagans fought wars, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought the gods were backing them. If you claim any link with them you can not then disclaim their bad side.
A new addition to the Law and Order family: Law and Order: Gangs Unit. Watch Ice T surf myspace for an hour. Every mouse click is accompanied by a "Doom Doom."
It's must see TV!
If you look at the article, the poster isn't comparing witches to Al-Quaeda at all. Just because he uses them in the same group doesn't mean he's saying witches are like Al-Quaeda. He's merely listing them as a subculture, which they (you) are. I don't have a negative connotation of the word subculture. I am part of many subcultures. Doesn't automatically mean I fly planes into buildings or bathe in fish blood or eat only vegetables.
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
To make things worse, they probably didn't pay for their copy of Dreamweaver either...
I had a link at the bottom that said:
"Gangs of America - Browse a huge selection. Find exactly what you want today."
It was sponsored by eBay.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
It's not because they can't afford to, it's because they can't budget and most are their own best customers.
When I was a teen, hung on kind of a rough corner. More than a few of the kids were dealers. Mostly pot (though most of them graduated later on to actual harmful drugs). Besides smoking most of their stash, they'd do stupid things like blow money on other drugs or buy Don Perignon, etc.
Two of my friends wanted me to go into "business" with them selling weed. It would have been a pretty sweat deal actually as I really wouldn't have to do much of anything except put up a small amount of cash at the beginning and then just manage the money after and have no liability.
I was tempted, but that's not my thing so I declined, but I did the math on it before saying not, it would have been around $3500 profit a week.
By rights, most of them should own houses.
-William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
Create a "Legal" topic.
This no more belongs in YRO than would an article about the latest Linux kernel release.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
How long until the Amish get a website? Oh wait.
Jehova is not peaceful and loving. He says so himself.
I reloaded the page and it got cooler. It said:
"Gang Violence - Browse a huge selection. Find exactly what you want today."
But then I reloaded again and it only said:
"Books - Browse a huge selection. Find exactly what you want today."
Not always cool, I guess.
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
Yeah, I expect that comment to get quite a bit of..feedback.
But it was the director of the National Gang Crime Research Center who said it,
so direct all complaints thataway. I don't even practice Wicca, and find that
sort of uninformed lumping-together fucking disgusting.
And devil-worshippers? There aren't really many devil-worshippers, apart from
various criminally insane cases. If he meant Satanism, it's more of an
ego-centric religion. I got the impression that director has lived a very
sheltered life.
Google adsense listings from TFA: Google sponsored links
Gangs of America - Nace profiles the rise of corporate power & the disabling of democracy www.bkconnection.com
Real Time Financial News - Newswires, Stock News, Earnings Filter by Sources & Categories www.knobias.com
Gang violence - Browse a huge selection now. Find exactly what you want today. www.eBay.com
Life ain't nothin' but packets and money.
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
On Sunday, Bush warned Americans that "this crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take awhile." I'll leave it up to you to decide whether Bush really does want a Christian war in the Middle East or whether he's just stupid and ignorant.
"fought wars, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought the gods were backing them"
Replace slaves with captives held without reason or trial
and how is this diffrent than the current US Administration?
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
GP was talking about the Arabs, not the Jews.
Sig withheld to protect the innocent.
I got better...
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
For all the gang-bangers that read /.
I found the translator at http://www.psyclops.com/translator/.
Gangs Use Internet to Showcase Exploits
Jul 6, 4:08 PM (ET)
By ANDREW GLAZER
LOS ANGELES (AP) - Some of da country's most notorious street gangs has gotten Web-savvy, showcasin' illegal exploits, makin' threats, 'n honorin' killed 'n jailed members on digital turf.
Crips, Bloods, MS-13, 18th Street 'n others has staked claims on various corners of cyberspace n' shit. "Web bangers" be postin' potentially incriminatin' photos of members holdin' guns, messages tauntin' otha gangs 'n boasts of illegal exploits on personal Web sites 'n social networkin' sites.
"I'm just bein' real 'n Ah ain't gots nothin' to hide," said Kristopha "Kasper" Flowers, 30, a professed memba of da 18th Street gang wid facial tattoos of "18" 'n "666." Da main 18th Street gang Web site has a link to "Kaspers World."
Gangs once only roamed da streets of big ass cities but now can be found in 2,500 U.S, man. communities, accordin' to da FBI, man. Police departments suddenly faced wid da unwelcome arrivals be lookin' fo help anywhere they can get it, includin' da gangs' own easy-to-find Web sites.
George W, man. Knox, director of da National Gang Crime Research Center, said tha dude has trained hundreds of police officials in how to cull intelligence on gang membership, rivalries, territory 'n lingo from these Web pages.
"In orda to understand any subculture, be dat shit al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs, yo' ass has to be able to know they own language," Knox said.
Da tendency fo gang members to brag about they exploits on Web pages such as da popular networkin' site Myspace.com has in some cases helped investigators make arrests.
Chicago police recently arrested a teenaga accused of sprayin' tha dude's gang nickname on a church by tracin' da monika to tha dude's Myspace.com account n' shit. Tha dude's online profile included tha dude's address, photo 'n real name.
A Northern California judge ruled earlia dis month dat two teens charged wid beatin' a boy into a coma could be tried as adults afta prosecutors showed photographs of da two from Myspace.com, know what I'm sayin'? In da images, they flashed da hand signs of a local gang.
(AP) Kristopha "Kasper" Flowers, 30, works on a tattoo Tuesday, June 20, 2006, in da Hollywood section...
Full Image
Myspace.com representatives could not be reached fo comment.
Deputy Tom Ferguson of da Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department's gang investigation unit has identified a numba of graffiti writers who posted to a public Web site photos of themselves in front of they work.
"Maybe they think we don't look at it," Ferguson said n' shit. "But we're out there gleanin' information on them."
Knox said it be important fo police to learn how to read between da lines on gang Web sites 'n blogs n' shit. Just as time on da streets has given gang investigators da ability to read da hieroglyphics of wall graffiti, time on da Web helps 'em understand arcane Web clues, man. Gang identifiers, such as tattoos, graffiti tags, colors 'n clothin' often be embedded in each site.
" Yo' ass can study gang blogs and, an hour or two into it, pick up on subtle word choices," Knox said n' shit. "These be holy words to them."
Knox 'n others fear gangs be usin' da Internet to recruit new members, who can be influenced by da secret handshakes, clothin' 'n slang of gang cultures.
"There may be a lot of wannabes out there," said Kenneth Davis, a school resource offica fo da Yonkers Police Department in New York 'n an expert on gang graffiti 'n Web sites.
Flowers, a Hollywood tattoo artist who says tha dude has sworn off violence, said tha dude gets e-mails from wannabe gangbangers from far reaches of da Web but usually does not respond.
"If Ah do, Ah tell 'em to get a life 'n do yo' own thin' 'n don't try to be part of somethin' else," tha dude said.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
Are there any good gangs in my timezone that use DKP?
members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
Those who reject the path to enlightenment must be destroyed. Hallowed are the Ori.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Life is such a sweet insanity. The more you learn, the less you know.
I'll leave it up to you to decide whether Bush really does want a Christian war in the Middle East or whether he's just stupid and ignorant.
Where's the "all of the above" circle?
Redefining the meanings of words? These are meanings of "witch" in America -
broom-riding hag with magical powers who eats children
ordinary women murdered by Christians hundreds of years ago
fat chicks who aren't slutty enough for goth
The irony is that a cop is a bigger threat to our safety than any self-ascribed "witch".
'Oh, yeah, about those Crusades: many, many, centuries ago, my li'l crystal polisher. Better analogy would have been, "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here. We don't crash airplanes into someone else's building in the name of our goddess..." oooooh, i'm gonna get modded down so-o-o-o-o fast.....!' how's this one: ""Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here; we don't spend billions of dollars to shelter thousands of child molesters from justice" or "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here; we don't tell an entire continent riddled with HIV to not use condoms" or ""Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here; we don't take taxpayers money and give it to fundamentalists" or "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here; we don't gloat over the destruction of a city saying they had it coming for being wicked" or "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here; we don't think the world is going to end any minute in a blazing mess of fire but that's ok cause Jesus is going to miracle me up to the sky before I can get crisped" or "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here; at least we understand that Jesus was a liberal Jew who had much more in common with Abby Hoffman than G.W.Bush" this is pretty fun actually! I love the "modded down" part too. The "wow, playing the persecuted christian card is so politically incorrect" is awesome! Do it again!
They must be stupid or blind.
I'm just a rock and roll rebel.
A rock and roll rebel.
I'm just a rock and roll rebel.
-apologies to Ozzy
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
I thought they already were doing something like this on the Internet. Isn't this more or less what MySpace is, anyway?
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
There was actually a video of a guy (supposed rapper from philly) named Joey Jihad (don't ask.. I don't know either) posted on youtube a while ago. Long story short, a few of the street thugs standing on the corner told waved him down out of his car, had him come over and start freestyling on camera, then one ran up and knocked him out (sucker punched).. then stole his car.
8 256701199
The video was posted online. The guy who sucker punched Jihad is now dead.
Moral of the story: People do stupid shit and post it on the internet hoping to gain popularity. Those same acts, which may have gone unpunished, cost them a great deal in the long run because they want the world to see how much of a "badass" they are (see high school fight clubs, the "stop snitchin" dvd, etc.). Some are lucky enough to get jail time while others lose their lives.
Oh, I managed to find a google video link of the incident:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=292805886
Trying to "read between the lines" of some of the Ned sites (Scottish youth subculture) isn't exactly hard - you only have to decypher what they're actually trying to write in the first place!
See: http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/reviews/reviews.h tml
[WARNING - maybe not best to view at work, or if you have an abhorence of complete numpties]
"Pure mental!" as they say. Yes... right...
A Don Perignon from 1982 isn't that bad.
GTA: Web Banger
In which you play the role of a pale pimple-faced nerd with an inhaler, posing as a big bad nigga online. Spend days photoshopping a grand theft auto or grafitti, instead of actually doing it. Brag about your bad-mofo inner-city gangsta exploits, from the safety of your parents' basement in the suburbs. Spend hours playing CS and GTA while listening to wannabe wigger rappers, as material for those bad-mofo gangsta stories. Throw in some porn late at night, after your parents went to sleep, as material for some gangland rape story. Spend a couple of days trying to get the Audigy 2 you got for your birthday to make you sound like a bad-mofo gangsta on voice chat, then give up and revert to typing pseudo-ebonics. Etc.
Yup, the high-tech law-breakin' game of the future. I can just see it.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I'm glad that this has led to arrests of some really bad people, but I bet for the most part a bunch of would be 1337 g@ngs+@z are the only ones doing this. For whatever idiotic reason, there's a lot of kids who wanna be in some stupid gang, so hey! Make your own on the internets! It's kinda like most of the XxSuIC1D3GuR1xX types out there... mostly a cry for attention, than anything else.
Says alot about the mindset of this guy...he lumps in un-popular religions with groups who actually set out to hurt people.
Blar.
The other day I was driving through Bathurst and saw "CRIP 4 LIFE" spray-painted on a mailbox.
Seemed a bit pathetic at first, really, some kid from small town Canada pretending he's a member of a gang he probably saw on TV and thought looked cool. But I have to wonder if these sites aren't more of a recruitment tool than anything else, an attempt to start branches of these gangs in places where they would normally would have no reach.
Having small local gangs with national and international affiliations would be useful if you needed out-of-town locations for smuggling, safe-houses, grow-ops...
Why did the officer include witches and devil worshippers with gangs and Al Qieda? I've yet to hear about witches and devil worshippers killing people in the streets or flying planes into buildings. Weird.
Can I bum a sig?
You could say the same about Christians, if you study your history. Remember the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slave owners in America and elsewhere? Does that mean that someone who claims to be a Christian today supports all of these activities?
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
"fought wars, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought the gods were backing them"
Replace slaves with captives held without reason or trial
and how is this diffrent than the current US Administration?
Replace "wars" with "grandpa," "slaves" with "naps" and "slaughtered civilians" with "baked cookies"
and how is that different from my grandma?
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
People have been complaining about dumb people using the internet ever since AOL started giving their users access to it.
(i would hardly be surprised if the guys that created Darpanet were the first to get concerned about dumb people accessing the would be Internet when universities started giving students access to it)
In the late eighties, I was called into the principal's office and accused of devil worship by my math teacher (Church of Christ) and principal (Seventh Day Adventist.) Grown people of average sanity considered it a real threat back then. Are we stupid again?
Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.
against these CS Gangsters it EOF
Isn't it the same god?
You need get you head our of your ass and be more appreciative of the religious biases of this country, my friend. You would not, I believe, be talking this way if the author had mentioned Jews or Hindus in the same light. Witches (Wicca) and devil-worshipers (I assume he means either Lucifarians or Satanists here) are well-established religions with long histories and complex traditions and all have exactly as much right to dignity as Christians, Jews, and all of the other "main stream" religions.
I wish people would try to feel a little more empathy once and a while. Just move to a nation where your particular faith (or lack there of, since tolerence inclueds athests and agnostics too) is looked down upon--and I guarentee there is at least one--and see how it feels.
The fact that the parent brings up hackers is irrelvent in this case, because being a Hacker is the same as being a person who pratices a particular trade, it has nothing at all to do with your belief structures (although, I will not deny that Hackers may share semi-uniform values) and only serves to distort the point.
...En að Besta Sem Guð Hefur Skapað Er Nýr Dagur
I'm sure "easily and without effort" is hyperbole, but as one prison guard/weekend warrior I knew put it:
"War on Drugs - The dealers around here all wear red bandannas, and don't let anyone else wear them. If it was a real war, it would be over in 15 minutes - me 20, gang 0!"
This guy used to show up for basic weapons qualification on rifle ranges I was adminning, fire 38 rounds, put the M-16 down with 2 rounds left, and insist on sticking with a score of 38 out of a possible 40. He never missed, that I saw, but didn't want a bunch of eagle eye scores on his military record, because if he ever had to shoot in a prison hostage situation or something, he was worried about some lawyer getting that record and grilling him about why he didn't just shoot the shiv out of someone's hand at 800 meters.
Even so, it would be harder than he or you make it sound. Gangs usually have a few older members who know how to keep a lower profile. There's a hard core that often includes some people who are military or police trained, access to some long range weapons of their own (even if it's likely to be single shot stuff) and often some sort of compartmentalization or cell-like structure, so the outer layer of street punks couldn't identify the whole core even if they wanted to. Don't mistake the dumb, cheap and expendable outer layers for the whole problem.
Who is John Cabal?
Every time I read about this scum I recall the saying of Marx that the government is just another gang of organized armed people. End of allusion.
It works the best when it is much stronger than the other gangs. Mussolini eliminated Cosa Nostra in Italy so it had to move to US. Stalin almost liquidated organized crime.
I frankly do not know how people justify popularizaion and glamourization of gangs.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
I like how they threw in witches and devil worshippers. They could have just as easily said drug cartels or mobs but chose two peaceful subcultures. Sure every bunch has their bad apples but over all you never hear of witches or devil worshippers killing a little kid for his iPod. I was raised by a very open minded family and my father was sometimes accused of being a "devil worshipper" by many of my religious peers families due to his belief in some of the satanic churches ideals. He never practiced Satanism, he merely believed in a few of their principals. He was never a violent person and on that note this article hit a sore spot for me. The satanic church itself is not about violence at all, it is more about embracing lifes pleasures. Ok, I'm getting off topic. Violent gangs are bad and don't incriminate other subcultures in the process if you don't know what you're talking about.
Bedevere: Exactly. So, logically...
Villager: If... she... weighs... the same as a duck... she's made of wood.
Bedevere: And therefore?
Villager: A witch!
Crowd: A witch! A witch!...
I will forever be a student.
Oh, yeah, about those Crusades: many, many, centuries ago, my li'l crystal polisher. Better analogy would have been, "Hello... peaceful earth-based religion here. We don't crash airplanes into someone else's building in the name of our goddess..." he probably means the war on muslims which -yes, is about oil and money- but then again all crusades were about money
It's not because they can't afford to, it's because they can't budget and most are their own best customers.
You should read the referenced chapter in Freakonomics. It's based on studies and statistics and tracing the money flows, not anecdotes, and the conclusion is that most drug dealers at the street level don't make very much money because it's the next layer up that makes it all, allowing the street dealers to keep just enough to keep them interested.
I'm just sittin at my terminal, sippin on my bawlz and juice...
With my mind on my webpage, and my webpage on my mind...
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return.
Wow, does this guy have an ax to grind. What does an imaginary network of terrorists, practitioners of a polytheistic nature religion, angst-filled teenagers, and small cliques of violent street thugs have in common? None of them are a threat to society but provide a convenient fantasy for people obsessed with some silly notion of an epic battle of Good versus Evil. People like this scare me more than a few scattered street gangs.
Join Tor today!
Who's the man with the masterplan?
A nigga witta motherfuckin' Dell.
The director of the National Gang Crime Research Center has stated "In order to understand any subculture, be it al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs, you have to be able to know their own language."
I almost dread to ask, but what is the director of such an organisation doing prying into the private lives of practicing Pagans and Wiccans? I can't believe how misunderstood this religion is. If you substituted any other typically nonviolent religious group, such as Christians or Jews, I'm sure they wouldn't be lumped in with gangs quite so quickly.
Funny, I always thought web bangers were something completely different
Remember kids, with great power comes great opportunity to abuse that power
In this country we still have to deal with fundi Christians and their crazy rituals: Andrea Yates
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
To borrow the bumper sticker: "I love God. It's His fan club I'm not crazy about."
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
i read your post 2 sec too late...
my eyes. my EYES! they are burning.
It should read: Web-savvy kids have joined the gangs.
What the heck does this mean?
I don't even know what the heck this means.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
"long histories and complex traditions"? The Church of Satan dates back to April 30, 1966. That's oh so very long indeed.
While we're at it, every "pagan" I've ever met follows a fairly recently concocted hodgepodge of dozens of individual, mutually contradictory bits of pre-Christian religions, along with a healthy dose of made-up nonsense. "Wicca" dates back to the 1920s, at best.
So yeah, I look down on it.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
You have been hacked by . All your street belong to us!
is that excite.com is still around
You would not, I believe, be talking this way if the author had mentioned Jews or Hindus in the same light
I would if, as a Jew, he referred to himself as a "Goblin," or as a Hindu, referred to himself as an "Ogre." I'm not disparaging the religions, I'm mocking the pagans' predilection for describing themselves with the same term as a fairytale boogeyman and then moaning about how they're so misunderstood. Words have meaning.
I wish people would try to feel a little more empathy once and a while.
I'd say I'm about as empathetic as one can be on the topic. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've forogotten more about Wicca and "neo-paganism" than you'll ever know. The truth is that so much of the angst and anxiety and "Help! Help! I'm being Oppressed!" -edness that the movement feels is self-inflicted. Wiccans are not going to let anyone pry the "witch" moniker from them anytime soon because it is their link to their own "holocaust" of the Salem Witch Trials etc. "Never More The Burning Times!" and all that rot. Of course, there is nothing but the most tenuous, spurious of connections between the craft as concocted by Buckland and Gardner and Starhawk et. al. and whatever it was that "witches" were burned for hundreds of years ago, but, hey, it's Christians oppressing women, so let's milk it, kk?
well-established religions with long histories
Again, I got nothing against Wicca. But long-established? Compared to Judaism? Islam? It's as modern as Mormonism and Scientology. Not that being a "new" religion is a bad thing, but let's call a spade a spade.
al-Qaida, witches, devil worshippers or gangs
And those Necromancers and Daedra worshippers! Kill 'em all!
ObGrrr: Grrrrr!
Sorry. Too much Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion for me.
Yo! I'm startn' an IT gang. Yah, you got that right bitch. I'm gonna put a cap in yo ass if you're not puttin' comments in yo code. You think I'm shitt'n you? I'm pimp'n a 3 terabyte database beeotch! We're gonna lay it down for the candy asses down in accounting. They think they can say no to my bad ass chrome trimmed workstation request? They be mutha f*ing fools!
Props to my homeys at Oracle! *pours a diet coke on a dead server*
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
wow, there goes my thought that geeks were open minded... you're a bunch of intolerant people as much as anybody else. Live and let live. Everybody has the right to believe in whatever they feel is true. All this argument has left me with the impression that /.ters are as retrograde as the next person.
Huge difference between weed distribution (you'd have already been "management tracked" it sounds like) and crack slinging. You would have been excersising market power due to your potential customers limited access to the markets and your assymetric information (where to buy cheap weed). Crack dealing is competitive and those at the top of the game make bank (so lots of people are willing to tolerate poor working conditions for the shot at getting to the top). Not really that different than all the associates at an investment bank, law firm, or big 5 accounting firm busting their butt 100/hrs a week for pay that covers expenses and school bills but not a whole lot more, for the shoot at making partner (where you will be set for life).
This grad student spent a ton of time studying a gang in Chicago and the treasurer sent him all the books, the average dealer in their gang was making something like $2.65/hr.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
Not "same sentence" - "same clause".
"The US government hates Al Quaida" = same sentence
"The US government and terrorists hate gays" = same clause
And no - they are *not* often mentioned in the same clause.
Last post!
While we're at it, every "pagan" I've ever met follows a fairly recently concocted hodgepodge of dozens of individual, mutually contradictory bits of pre-Christian religions, along with a healthy dose of made-up nonsense. "Wicca" dates back to the 1920s, at best.
So yeah, I look down on it.
Does it make much difference if something was completely made-up out of thin air 50 or 100 years ago, or thousands of years ago?
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
Hmm I could make more money selling realestate, but I think I'll carry on selling crack to toddlers, at least I get to keep my self respect
Fear not God. Fear the IPU
Some people seem to think that if you do it for evolution instead of religion, you are more sane and acceptable.
Fuckin' A right, Mister! All those wars in the name of evolution, all that slaughter in the name of natural selection, that was for progress! I'm killin' this cross-wearer for Darwin, gene-damnit!
After that, I'm going to have a little holy feast in the name of physics.
Then I'm going to start the astronomy crusades! ay-ay-ay-ay-ay-ay! (That's my war cry. Scary, isn't it? It's scientifically calculated to incite fear in the brain of the anti-knowledge heathen.)
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
The best part of the article was the ad at the bottom:
You can get anything on eBay!
I never said it was.
The GP essentially says other religions do all the bad stuff, Wicca does not. My point is that the ancient religions on which Wicca claims to be based did do the bad stuff.
Incidentally atheists do the bad stuff as well (Pol Pot for example). Just about any group of people of sufficient size will produce mass murderers, war-mongers etc.
And if the article said "Christians" instead of specifying "Catholics," would that be fine by you?
What?!
Where are "Christians" or "Catholics" mentioned anywhere in the article?
"Dear Lord, protect me from your followers"
Man, you really need that seminar!
It's based on ONE group of dealers. In addition, while I agree with a lot of whats in Freakanomics, there is a lot where he simply ignores stuff that may upset his delicate balance of factors.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
English is easier said than done.
Lets see, you said:
"Ancient pagans fought wars, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought the gods were backing them. If you claim any link with them you can not then disclaim their bad side."
If we change a few words:
"Ancient (or Medieval if you prefer) Christians, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought that god was backing them. If you claim any link with them you can not then disclaim their bad side."
Amazing how people don't see the logic of their arguement cuts both ways...
"Police departments suddenly faced with the unwelcome arrivals are looking for help anywhere they can get it, including the gangs' own easy-to-find Web sites"
Monty
- instead of "where you from?!?!" it's now "A/S/L???"
- 10/100 LAN connections are now referred to as "dimebags"
- gang snipers are now eBay snipers
- drive-by shootings are a thing of the past...online gangs now raid opposing online gang territory by wardriving
- warez start coming in from Colombia
I can really think of a lot more, but the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet...and I should probably get to work!
semper ubi sub ubi
What is this "after the war on terror" you speak of? I thought this is the perpetual war of 1984?
All that happens is that the definition of what "terror" means changes, the war on terror continues, the cycle of fear perpetuates, the vassals leige, the 'barbarians' are kept from collusion. America folds into a world government comprised of corporations soon after. None of this three continent crap that Georgey was talking about. Don't you love America?
Man, did that joke turn sour fast or what?
__
Thou hast besquirted me, O leotarded one.
You know, I'd have more respect for Wicca if it wasn't just an attention-whoring device. In other words, if you want respect, how about respecting yourself first? Because all that trolling for attention strikes me as pretty much forfeiting any claim to respect.
I have nothing against new religions (because that's what it is), but some are at least decent about it. Wicca is little more than trolling for attention. It's just a sad collection of just enough satan-worship trappings, conotations and words (including claiming the word "witch") to bait half the Christians in town. It's something that's not even designed as a religion, but as a means to shock, annoy and irritate people. It's not a religion, it's just one of the many sub-cultures built around trolling for attention.
And if that wasn't enough, add some more annoyance factor in the form of pretending it has some right... nay, _duty_... to redefine words and complain about everyone using that word as what it meant all along. Let's also throw some of the lamest guilt-tripping attempts in the mix, while we're at it.
You want to be treated in a dignified way? Start by acting dignified. If you choose to adher to a group that's just one of the many emo attention-whoring groups, you've already told the world how much you respect yourself. Expect that to be pretty much the high water mark. Few people will show you much more respect than that.
You want to be treated as a religion? Then how about acting like a serious religion, instead of all that actively trolling for attention? You don't see, say, the Asatru (an actual old "pagan" religion, or at least based on one) shoving themselves in the public eye and posing as victims all the time, do you? In fact, unless you happen to stumble upon the word, you might not even know that they exist at all. Did you know that the word "Hell" comes from their "Hel"? Yet you don't see the Asatru taking every occurence of the word "Hell" as some invitation to educate the masses about their religion, do you? Now compare it to Wicca taking every single occurence of the word "witch" as an opportunity to troll for attention and pose as some oppressed victim.
In other words: grow up, get a life, realize that there's more to life than shocking the neighbours, etc. _Then_ you'll get respect.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Ancient pagans fought wars, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought the gods were backing them. If you claim any link with them you can not then disclaim their bad side.
How is that different than many organized religions?
Yep, funny isn't it. I believe the only difference is that the Quran (Koran, whatever.) is the word of god as told to the prophet Muhammed as opposed to the word of god as given to Moses.
I could be wrong, theologians feel free to correct me.
Sig withheld to protect the innocent.
"Please note that this website does NOT send out unsolicited emails."
Spammers are below gangs on the malicious tree? Don't know why, but this made me laugh.
Here's an easy-to-find one:
http://gop.com/
Let's get the cops over to their crib right away!
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca
400 years ago it was "witches." 50 years ago it was "communists." These days it's those darn "terr'rists." People will always find a way to persecute other peoople they don't like for whatever reason.
Liberals, Democrats, anyone who believes in civil rights, free thinkers, scientists, academics, homosexuals, anyone who questions 'The Decider', anyone who does not agree with one party rule, goes to the wrong church of their choice, anyone not happy to suck up to corporations, does not believe in the New Mercantilism, who is not a jingosit but a true patriot, who does not want a American Empire, disagrees with the neo-cons, anyone who doesn't believe in greed (and it's demon spawn, 'Prosperity Christianity'), does not want a crusade of any sort and a host of others. America is getting scarier by the minute...
Damn I'm getting cranky...
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Youd have to be dealing multiple pounds a week to make $3500 profit. Anyone who thinks there is big money in drug dealing - espeically street dealing - has never done it. And most weed dealers have nothing to do with gangs and are not badass.
Dont get into dealing drugs its not worth it. Now growing on the otherhand...
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Strange, but this sort of thing is what builds a bridge to help close the digital divide, In it's own way it is actually encouraging. This is the sort of outlet that *could* help people learn about things outside of an environment that fosters a violent, repressed way of life and ultimately change the street. I deeply believe that this sets a new precedent in the hood, think about it, if these kids are even making a concerted effort at putting together a website(for better or worse)by default an active learning process is taking place that makes them more aware of things outside of "bangin", rivals, cheddar(cash), chickens(girls),etc that are embraced in those circles. A banger that has the aptitude to learn and experiment; holds the promise to a better tomorrow where people don't need to be in gangs anymore and where the hood is no longer a hood, but a *neighbor*hood.
"When a battle comes up, give me 2 thumbs up..." --Big L(RIP)
Not all Christians are Catholics, just as not all witches are Wiccan
Currently. But once upon a time (pre-Reformation for the Christians, earlier in the 20th Century for Witches) they were.
The apostles "invented" Christianity/The Catholic Church, if you will, and then various Methodist, Baptist, Adventists, Mormons, etc. splintered off. Buckland and Gardner and their peers invented modern witchcraft/Wicca, and all the Norse, Faerie, Seax, Egyptian, Native American, Urban Solitary, and other sects followed, distinguishing themselves from Wicca like a Methodist might distinguish himself from a Catholic.
Of course, the law enforcement official in the article should have said "neo-pagan," but that doesn't sound so nearly as sinister as "witch."
Which is the point I'm trying to make.
While we're at it, every "pagan" I've ever met follows a fairly recently concocted hodgepodge of dozens of individual, mutually contradictory bits of pre-Christian religions
Not that I have any sympathy for Wicca, but how is that different from Christianity?
AccountKiller
Still, not all groups who call themselves "witches" existing today have anything to do with Buckland, Gardner, or Wicca. Some consider themselves directly related, some tenuously, and some actively distance themselves from them. Some witches, to be blunt, never had anything to do with Wicca and might slap you for saying so. That is the point I was trying to make. You can't lump all modern "witches" under "Wicca" any more than you can lump all modern "Christians" (which include Protestants, Anglicans, the Amish, Calvinists, Rosicrucians, and many other non-Catholic followers of Christian-based faiths) under today's Catholic Pope.
And the term "neo-pagan" should definitely not have been used. Neo-pagan is an even broader term than "witch," including far too many subsets and religions to begin to catalog in a Slashdot post.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
>>this is just a sign that the web has got dumb enough for dumb people to use it
...and if you read the posts from august 93, then the early geocities boards, and then your l33t-filled myspace pages you can see two things:
>People have been complaining about dumb people using the internet ever since AOL started giving their users access to it.
a)the decline in intelligence in online user-generated content
b)that the people bitching about AOL were spot-on.
Now Witches are lumped in with not only Devil Worshippers, but Gangs and Al-Quaida. http://www.religoustolerance.org/
Well golly gee, isn't this obvious? Now we have a fool proof plan to find all the members of Al Queda!
Clearly Al Queda members are witches, and we all know that witches burn. But why do witches burn? Because they're made out of wood! Now to figure out if we have apprehended an Al Queda member we won't build a bridge out of them, instead we will find out if they float! Now of course throwing a potential Al Queda member into the pond won't work well either, instead we should find something else that floats to weigh against the potential Al Queda member...
Bread? No...
Soap? No...
Very Small Rocks? No...
A Duck!
So therefore, if a person weighs the same as a duck, they're made of wood... and therefore, A WITCH! (BURN THEM! BURN THEM ALL!) Oh and a member of Al Queda
the Gangs that use Sharepoint to keep track of who has which corner.
No one has probably heard of this in the US but there is a website by neo-nazis that posts photos, addressed, and phone numbers of "antifascist activists" called www.redwatch.info There was a story recently about a man in Warsaw who was beaten and stabbed by some skinheads who got his info off of the website. Pretty messed up.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
en tea
Exactly. I don't see this guy ripping on the diamond engagment ring.
I looked up this organization's site, and just sent a formally indignant email to the SOB, asking why he hadn't included millinarians or other fundamentalist Christians, and told him, in so many words, that this was a blatently bigoted statement, and that I would post this to enough other sites, to suggest that he could not ignore this, and demanded a public retraction, putting Witches in with gangs.
For the real Satanists (not the stupid kids who want to freak out their parents), sorry, you can try to explain to him the difference between the Christian's version of Satanism and yours. I doubt he's capable of understanding, though....
mark
But do you weigh less than a duck?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
What do they have in common? No more and no less than the police officer in TFA stated: They are unique subcultures with unique slang, argot, terminology, etc... Understanding the same takes time and effort.
(Though the usual Slashdot handwaving panic mongers have spent no time trying to read and understand what TFA said - instead (and as usual) jumping to conclusions about what they think he said and meant.)
Try living in an area dominated by gang bangers and wannabees and your attitude will change abruptly I warrant.
Street gangs are niether few nor scattered - but the handwavers and head-in-the-sand types prefer to believe their fantasies over reality.
Umm... what?
"Witches" in common parlance refers to female magic-users, traditionally dressed in black with pointy hat, cauldron and magical flying broomstick. It's not Satanism and it's not Wicca; think Snow White's stepmother, or the Wicked Witch of the West. Lots of cackling. Double double toil and trouble.
Satan doesn't enter into it. That's a completely different horror story.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Yay!
I love Bush Administration Mad Libs!
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
"I'll get you and your little dog, Toto, too!"
"Surrender Dorothy" (sky tagging)
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Blame the language. You (singular) and You (plural) are the same words. I didn't mean to attack him in particular. Maybe I should have said it in a clearer way.
Christianity (excluding Catholicism) isn't contradictory, if you understand it. It branched off from Judaism, obviously, but there's a lot of discussion in the New Testament about how you can be Christian without being Jewish (there was initially some confusion about this). Most of the hodge-podge traditions thrown in from other religions are things like holidays (e.g. Christmas and Easter) and are completely unimportant theologically.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
As someone who studied the witch hunts in early modern Europe, I can tell you that there was almost no evidence of devil worship found, nor any "nasty" practices. Instead, followers of traditional, grass roots faiths - and especially those practicing herbal medicine - where tried and hastily convicted at the behest of the church to ensure its dominance. Estimates range between a few hundred thousand all the way to a million (pick a happy medium) women AND men being killed for following local customs, superstitions, and beliefs. In a few cases, false claims were brought about for financial benefit.
Take one look at Malleus Maleficarum and that pretty much gives you an idea why so many so-called "witches" confessed.
"Ancient Pagans" is a loose term describing any number of people and I doubt that's what the parent was referring to. Rather, it reeks of panicky paranoia - if the gangs don't get us, the witches and terrorists (read: non-christians) will!
When one lists things together, one often implies an association. In this case, it certainly is not intended to show contrast. I know that in the mind of an average American, the terms “witch” and “devil-worshipper” have negative connotations. As does, of course, the other two. However, in reality, the former pair in this case are absolutely benign and pose no detrement to society. The disapproval is purely subjective and almost always misinformed. And if you do the research, you find that al Quaeda is a fantasy, one that was created by a government witness in early 2001 in a trial against extremists. This term is only a modern replacement for the Evil Soviet Empire. Now, as for gangs.
Read my statement carefully. I said “threat to society,” which differs from threat to you or your community. Gangs depend utterly on our society for their survival, and their goal is not to bring that society down. (I challenge you to find a gang banger who has the goal of overthrowing our govnernment and destroying our culture.) If you are wondering why, consider laws banning the use of recreational drugs. Outlawing goods the general population demands always brings rise to illicit trade, such as with prohibition and mafias. Our socieity simultaneously outlaws drugs, enforces the ban, then demands those very same drugs. It is this schizophrenic behavior that contributes directly to the formation of gangs, as the presence of a sufficiently large demand produces a supply. When you look at it this way, you find that gangs thrive on the current state of society and would certainly have no interest in posing a threat to it.
Join Tor today!
Ancient pagans fought wars, took slaves and slaughtered civilians and in all that thought the gods were backing them.
That sounds more like the work of the Christians to me. Crusades anyone?
Come to think of it, I think Dubya seems to think that God is on his side. Too bad the muslims feel the same way!
Anyone who thinks that God is on their side is dangerous.
Bring back Sirius Punk!
Not really, unless you count all those Wiccans/pagans/etc. who repeatedly insist that their religions are thousands of years old. That really gets tiresome.
...Or my favorite: "Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshole."
Most of the hodge-podge traditions thrown in from other religions are things like holidays (e.g. Christmas and Easter) and are completely unimportant theologically.
The hodge-podge traditions like:
being born of a virgin?
that this birth was visited by magi bearing gifts?
having 12 followers?
performing miracles?
a last supper of wine and bread?
dying for the sins of humanity?
being buried in a cave?
rising after death?
coming back to lead in the final battle vs evil?
All of these things are found in pre-Christian religions, especially those following Osiris, Dionysus, and Mithras.
The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
"why did this get modded Troll? He's right on."
There are a lot of republicans here. They tend to mod down anybody who disagrees with them. But yes every word was true. Bush has said on many occations that god told him to invade iraq.
I read an interesting article the other day about an xtian movement which basically believes that if you pray hard enough then you become an instrument of god and that everything you say or do is god acting through you. In other words you can never do wrong because it's actually god doing it and he is just using you as a tool. This why Bush one said "I trust the god speaks through me". Yes that's a real quote google it.
evil is as evil does
You are utterly correct. And in this instance the association is "subcultures with unique argot" - not "subcultures that threaten society".
And my community - and others threatened by gangs are not part of society?
A more stunning bit of ignorance I have never encountered. Gangs predate the drug issue in America by a wide margin - and even today gangs are not solely about drugs. Many aren't about drugs at all. (Though the uniformed may believe otherwise.)
Sell a pound by the gram and you'll get a bit under 9 grand. There is also usually a pretty good markup (the grower gets 10-20%), so if you get half of the profit you are doing pretty well...
If you are talking about Judeo-Christianity, then it wasn't made up thousands of years ago. The religion has evolved over time and was not just "made up". Thousands of years of study and writings, and introspection, and events, and established institutions.
Compared to most other religions, it has withstood the test of time. It has indeed survived and has millions, if not billions, of followers. This is indeed what tends to separate "pagan" from "mainstream" religions.
I think that is what you were referring to.
Libertas in infinitum
Does it make much difference if something was completely made-up out of thin air 50 or 100 years ago, or thousands of years ago?
L. Ron Hubbard.
Would have been, but like I said, it was tempting money for a 17yr old. (This was 16yrs ago)
-William Shatner can be neither created nor destroyed.
I never said it was, I was replying to the GP which claimed that Wicca was different and more peaceful.
I made this very clear in my post. You clearly neither read my post of the parent post before replying.
Is it really too much for people like you to read posts in full before replying? Or to read the parent post and get an idea of the context? No, its write first and think afterwards.
Whether Wicca has genuine connections with ancient paganism or not (I do not think it has), its followers believe it has. They can not claim the connection and at the same time disclaim the bad bits of the connection.
Only if they then whine about how superior their religion is, because it's older and more traditional.
I've no problem with people having faith, only making demonstrably false claims. Christians striving to be good people, like their religion says they should be is a good thing. Fundamentalists telling me that I'm lying when I say that the fossil record doesn't support the idea of Man and Woman being brought to life at 9 AM on October the 23rd, 4004 BC is rather less good.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Out of curiosity, what about a person who has decided to take up worshipping members of the Grrek pantheon? Is that not a thousands of year old religion?
What about Hindus (technically pagans to christians) who claim their scripture was given over 5000 years ago?
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
You left out the Headology.
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Hindus don't often outright refer to themselves as pagans. That's not their identity. They're Hindus, and they call themselves that. As for people worshipping the Greek gods, chances are damn good that they're not doing it in the same way or by the same traditions that the Ancient Greeks did. In any case, I was specifically referring to people that identify themselves as "pagan", the large number of which are actually following a rather new religion that borrows gods or superficial aspects from ancient religions.
Ok. So for someone to claim to be following an old religion and not some new fangled thing, they need to worship in the old ways. Then there are currently few if any Christians who can seriously claim to be anything but a fairly new fad religion as well. Or am I not getting your viewpoint?
My use of "pagan" in relation to non Christian religions is because of how Christians around me have used it. They have always, in my experience, used it to mean "any religion not following Christ". Since the discussion and original topic uses somewhat vague terms is it any wonder we are having such a discussion over the meaning of words.
For a really mind bending example of how grey a domain we are wandering into, look at Hare Krishnas. They are a fairly new organized religion, but worship as scripture claiming to be thousands of years old describes. Are they new and not worth any consideration or old and worth taking seriously? Where does this put the way Christian sects have evolved?
Am I reading to much into your original post?
Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Probably. I'm referring to pagans who call themselves pagans, ie. some Wiccans, neo-druids and such. They use the "fact" that their religion is ancient to add credibility to it, either to make themselves look less silly or to recruit people. Faith is faith, you've got it or you don't, and coming up with excuses for it just proves that you don't.
It just annoys me. It makes them seem somewhat like they're attention whores / sheep / etc.
Especially when those voices have a history of telling people to: kill their own child, kill large numbers of other people, etc, in the name of "God".
Anytime I meet anyone who claims to have regular conversations with God, I am scared of them. Because if they flip their lid one day, and the voices are no longer telling them to be good and just, they will still believe them and do their bidding.
IMO, we should be teaching people that if you have gods speaking to you, you should seek immediate help.
As a republican I feel it my responsibity to manufacture criminals. People need punished!