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Surgeon General Describes Censorship From Bush Administration
UniversalVM writes "The NY Times is reporting that the former Surgeon General in damaging testimony given to the senate describes how he was repeatedly censored by the Bush administration while speaking out about topics such as global warming, Stem cell research and so on. The effort was to 'water down' or weaken reports on important issues to suit Republican Agenda. He describes how he attended one meeting where Global Warming was being described as a 'Liberal Agenda' and being dismissed. He tried to intervene thinking that the people there did not understand the science so he set about explaining it to them, the result? He was never invited back."
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
Bush at work again, I see....
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
I can't wait until Bush has to get a tattoo on his back that reads: "SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING! Election of this individual may result in death and will increase the risk of the rest of the world hating you."
My work here is dung.
Recently, I went to this party, and when the band left, I grabbed the mic and started singing (I was imbibed). I've not been invited back....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
On a more serious note, even if you think that global warming is a pile of horse manure, why would anyone object to the measures that are being suggested? Unless they owned a coal mine of course...
There's a lot of sense in heavy investment in nuclear, solar and wind power plus hybrid, diesel and electric vehicles even in a situation where the world isn't going wrong. Same with switching to CFLs and generally improving efficiency of resource usage etc... it's not like there are people who find clean air offensive... or at least I hope not.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
Science should never bow to political pressures. Bush is guilty of this, obviously...This is hardly the first evidence.
But, especially in the area of health care, he's far from the only one who has gotten involved in a negative manner. Reagan tried to squash talk about AIDS, Clinton poo poo'd needle exchange programs, Bush Jr. jumped on everything just as part of the administrations obsession about managing information.
This stuff really needs to be separate and non-partisan...I am so freaking tired of this or that issue being batted around because of peoples inborn prejudices. A reputable expert with actual facts puts together a well thought-out, scientific report, and they get defunded, their speeches are edited and pre-reviewed. People from within the administration work to discredit their testimony. It's just ridiculous, and there is no way good science or good policy is coming out of it.
Hell, while they're at it, they should add a scientist general, and do the same damn thing. This stuff isn't about opinion. There is a right answer.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I'm not sure 2008 can come quickly enough.
I don't for a moment think that any of the potential presidential candidates and their future administrations will not be rife with corruption and political mumbo jumbo. However, the constant news of abuses of power and position to make hideously bad decisions has me regretting the past 7 years thoroughly.
We need Mr. T for president, or at least Secretary of Defense.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
Try explaining anything scientific to your friends -- you soon won't have any.
...Bush Administration And at what point does the meter raise to impeachment of the clan?
I don't condone censorship of scientists in any way, shape or form. But why is the Surgeon General talking about global warming? He should leave that discussion to the climate experts (e.g. Jim Hansen). There are too many armchair climatologists out there, which contributes to the misunderstandings about global warming.
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Join Scientists and Engineers for America. They are "a non-profit organization dedicated to renewing respect for evidence-based debate and decision-making in politics and at all levels of government."
If groups like that had the same sort of clout that religious groups have, America could remain the economic and philosophical leader of the world.
Of course, if we continue to elect politicians who make decisions based on theology instead of science, it may be time to start looking for jobs in western europe.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
What's the political organization in that office? The article made it sound as if political appointees outside the office were trying to tell him what to do? Who was it that had authority over this guy?
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Sorry, the parent is not a valid, Bush Administration Surgeon General position. You only mentioned Bush only once and you full well know the standard for any proper scientific position is that President Bush must be mentioned in glowing terms 3 times per page. Please edit and resubmit your paper accordingly.
(If only that wasn't **actually true**!!!)
I was at that meeting he describes, and he wasn't invited back because, frankly, he was just too pompous.
Random staffer: Global warming? You mean "liberal agenda".
Rest of room: Ha ha ha. (random laughter)
Surgeon General: No, no. You don't understand. Global warming is real. It's scientific!
Me: Calm down. We're just fooling around.
Surgeon General: No! It's because of carbon dioxide emissions. Don't forgot how smart I am. Listen to me. I'm a surgeon and a general. Anybody else a surgeon here? No? Anyone else a general here? No? Then all of you just better listen.
Me: (whispering to guy next to me) Let's not invite him back.
Guy sitting hext to me: What an ass.
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Look Clinton had a BJ and they tried to get him out of office. Bush has been screwing up a war form day one, went in when the evidence said no WMD's. Hell he even tried to pion sept 11 on Iraq, tho the evidence just was not there. Toss in things like the wire tapping issue where illegal wire tapping's occurred even tho getting a warrant to do it was basically a rubber stamp, and nothing happened. This is not the first time someone has said bushes gang tried to change the facts, and force bad info down on the public. In the end Bush is a oil guy, he don't care about the environment or anything, just making his own cash. Yet some how he is still in office, and Clinton who ya was not perfect almost got tossed out because of a BJ, give me a break.
... with regards to the Global Warming debate, is that people with no real knowledge on the subject (on both sides) persist in making declarations as if they were experts. This is further exacerbated, whether it's Hollywood loonies or right-wing religious fanatics, by their tendency to latch onto and espouse the most draconian of opinions. FWIW, in my opinion the Surgeon General has no more credibility on Global Warming than does Rush Limbaugh, and so his being asked to "stifle" does not bother me. Now, as regards stem cell research, that's a whole different ballgame.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Don't even bring Clinton into this.
Blar.
What does this have to do with technology? This story is not Slashdot worthy, in my humble opinion.
I guess the argument could be made that this is yet another example of censorship from the Bush administration, but frankly, it's not a very good one. Since when does the surgeon general speak authoritatively about global warming? I see nothing in his (Dr. Carmona) background which would lead me to believe he had the same depth of knowledge on the subject as the scientists who actually study the theory. The surgeon generals also complained about political pressure, but if we're having an argument based in reality, I'd be curious what political appointment doesn't feel some degree of political pressure. Nothing new here.
What really sucks about this to me is that hearing news of claims like this should really surprise us, but really...
How many of us read the title and were shocked and/or appauled?
Kinda sad that we're numbed to seeing stuff like this.
This is my signature. There are many like it but this one is mine.
"Reality has a well known liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert
--
make install -not war
Its rumored that the Reagan admin relied on astrology, tarot cards, etc in determining policy.
...just like tax cuts, military funding, and immigration control are part of the conservative agenda. I think it needs to be accepted that there are two sides to this argument, just like so many others. Bush does not believe that science has demonstrated a significant human contribution or significant human risk related to global climate change, and his policies are consistent with this view. This puts him in alignment with significant percentages of both the American public and the scientific community. The issue is unsettled, and the debate will continue for a long time I am sure. The idea that Bush is somehow exhibiting a special type of corrupt behavior by taking a stand on an issue and expecting his staff to back him up is just silly. We employ our leaders to represent our views with regard to public policy, and to oppose those who have opposite views. Liberals would like to see increased government regulation in response to the danger of global climate change. It's part of their agenda. And it's Bush's job as a Republican and (sometimes) a conservative to oppose these plans.
I can't stand CFL lights. Can someone please provide a link to a CFL with the same color temperature and visible spectrum as an incandescent lamp? They make peoples skin look like its dead and need a full minute to achieve the rated brightness. Hell, vacuum tubes need way less time to heat up. If they do ban incandescent lamps I'm going to invest heavily and stockpile them. Imagine prices a few years after a ban.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
This office will always, by its very nature, be politicized. If you don't like that, you should be arguing to get rid of the position entirely.
In a free society, the government would not have any power to make or enforce laws that bear upon anything an SG might have to say.
If humans are mostly water, and beer is mostly water, then humans must be mostly beer.
I used to be furious that our soldiers were dying for a lie in the desert...then I learned that the military voted Bush in 2004...88%...and they kept spouting the usual lies on TV. I quit caring about them.
Then, amazingly, I just quit caring about Iraq. Nobody I care about is over there fighting that honor-less conflict.
*shrug*
Patriotism is for suckers. Citizenship is a business relationship, and that is IT! It's give and take. What can the country do for me, in return for my support.
Blar.
"I was specifically told by a senior person, 'Why would you want to help those people?' " Dr. Carmona said. Wow... just... wow. Let's torpedo the Special Olympics because they're associated with someone from the other party. That's pretty damn low.
"Coming up on our 11 o'clock news... President Bush unexpectedly attacked by an unruly mob and severely beaten with crutches and canes. VP Cheney terrorized by motorized wheelchairs. Gov't suspects Al Quada."
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
WHO CARES?
Is it not a problem because everyone abuses the system? Shouldn't that suggest to a rational person that we need to fix the fucking system? But no, you've got to immediately make it a partisan issue, because you can't ever be wrong, and nothing can ever be your fault.
Fucking crybaby conservatives. "Waaaaa, Clinton did it too, so why are you yelling at meeeeeee?" After 7 years, you pansies should be able to stand up for your own damn misdeeds.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Now please get that right-wing "Clinton did it too!" bullshit out of here.
- Malaria and other diseases
- heatwave deaths
- water quality
It sure would have been helpful to have talked about them over the last seven years.After World WarII, several Nazi leaders were tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Not everyone wanted to do that. Winston Churchill, for example, just wanted to execute those Nazis. But the USA insisted on fair trials, saying that it was important to establish the principle of the rule of law.
Back then, the USA had leadership that demonstrated to the world how even the most heinous crimes (particularly the Holocaust)—in which many millions of people died—can and should be handled according to law and principle.
Compare that with what George W. does today.
There's a difference between
a. You being correct
b. Someone else being wrong
Claiming that someone else said something is no excuse nor justification.
Ok, I'll bite.
The Surgeon General has the capacity (and duty) to evaluate scientific (i.e. evidence-based) input relating to public health. If there is scientific reporting that shows that global climate change is expected to have negative health repercussions (and there is), it falls in his area of responsibility.
Glad I'm not looking to be Surgeon General.
Discuss HIV/AIDS, and mention that proper use of condoms is important = IGNORED.
Discuss masturbation, and mention it's a natural urge = FIRED.
Discuss global warming, and mention there is a threat to our way of life = BANISHED.
But, AIDS was under Reagan, the wanking thing was Clinton, and I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush admin was making their own 'science', so where's the surprise? The SG has seemed an impotent title to me for years, and we don't expect any better from the Rove camp. Even Koop seems to have been reduced to late night infomercials for the elderly who are afraid of falling.
Funny however that the SG is an appointed position and the appointer rarely has the desire to listen.
Getting diabetes AND salmonella would be a bad weekend.
Global warming is false anyway, what is really happening is climate change, only fools and idiots (mostly liberals) don't know the difference anyway.
Okay, I'll bite.... what is the difference?
-Jeremi the foolish idiot liberal
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Also, may I remind everyone of DR. Joycelyn Elders who suggested teaching school children to masturbate. That went over real well in the Clinton administration. I remember her being pushed out for that.
Of course, let's not let facts get in the way of Bush Bashing.
Sorry I'm not sure if you are advocating bush bashing for girls but denying monkey spanking for boys?
Personally, I think that teaching both bush bashing *and* monkey spanking is just fine at school.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
The (former) Surgeon General is a liberal??? Really?? Why do you suppose George W. Bush appointed a liberal to a cabinet level post?
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
This Censorship is brought to you by:
The letter B and
The number 666.
So, let's see here...
From TFA:
- The administration, Dr. Carmona said, would not allow him to speak or issue reports about stem cells, emergency contraception, sex education, or prison, mental and global health issues. (because, yanno, those have nothing to do with the guy in charge of health for the country...)
- Top officials delayed for years and tried to "water down" a landmark report on secondhand smoke, he said (Ve must toe ze party line, mein Heir)
- Dr. Carmona said he was ordered to mention President Bush three times on every page of his speeches. (Umm... Godwins Law warning!)
- He also said he was asked to make speeches to support Republican political candidates and to attend political briefings. (You work for us, not for those namby-pamby girly men)
- And administration officials even discouraged him from attending the Special Olympics (because we in the Republican party hate those damn cripples. They're just sponging off social welfare anyways.)
- The officials concluded that global warming was a liberal cause and dismissed it, he said. (It's true, actually. If we could instantly kill every liberal, global warming would be solved. Mostly because of the >50% loss in population, but still, technically, true...)
- Dr. Carmona described being invited to testify at the government's nine-month racketeering trial of the tobacco industry that ended in 2005. He said top administration officials discouraged him from testifying while simultaneously telling the lead government lawyer in the case that he was not competent to testify. (pfft! What would a DOCTOR know about TOBACCO?)
- When stem cells became a focus of debate, Dr. Carmona said he proposed that his office offer guidance "so that we can have, if you will, informed consent." "I was told to stand down and not speak about it," he said. "It was removed from my speeches." (pfft! What would a DOCTOR know about STEM CELLS?)
- The global health report was never approved, Dr. Carmona said, because he refused to sprinkle the report with glowing references to the efforts of the Bush administration. (truthfully, he did mention the Bush administration, but only in the context of "World health is suffering because Bush makes everyone sick to their stomachs...)
- Because the administration does not want to spend more money on prisoners' health care, the report has been delayed, Dr. Carmona said. (this must be why Libby never went to jail)
And the administrations response?
"It's disappointing to us," Ms. Lawrimore said, "if he failed to use this position to the fullest extent in advocating for policies he thought were in the best interests of the nation."
The only good side of all of this is that we only have ~1.3 years left.
I just fear it's ~1 year too much.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
Serving in one of America's seven uniformed services, the SG serves the people at the pleasure of the President (Executive). He's there to take orders and perform assigned duties, not promote his personal agenda. If he wanted to be a politician there are plenty of offices he can get himself elected to. If he wants to create Koop2.com or whatever he can resign and go into the civilian sector.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Somehow, somewhere along the line, science allowed itself to be bought through sponsorship of research, and then politicized through endorsement of certain political agendas which were suggested to be incarnations of scientific truth. Now, science itself is sullied, and is forever going to be caught in this battle between special interest groups vying for control of an oblivious electorate.
I think Lou Dobbs said it well:
With the electorate asserting a strong impulse to be independent, and with populism exerting a significant influence in the 2006 midterm elections, there is a possibility that all of those incumbents in the House and Senate may have to consider the possibility of actually having to represent their constituents and the popular will, rather than corporate America, socio-ethnic special interest groups and the tens of thousands of lobbyists who represent every interest but that of the common good and the nation.
Lou Dobbs - July 11, 2007
He's talking about government in general, but the same could be applied to science and even large parts of the computer industry. If science wants to have respect again, it needs to get rid of the perception that loyalties and bribes have made it a partisan football.
technical writing / development
OK, I was out of line accusing you of being a partisan hack. There was some brain pain once I realized that all the examples given were done to push Conservative agendas. Ignoring AIDS, repressing sexuality in children, and ignoring global warming and stem cells.
Got any examples of a president putting political pressure on the Surgeon General to advance liberal agends?
Blar.
And as for immigration control, I'm not sure how you can claim that to go to either side. It wasn't exactly top priority for Bush senior or Reagan, the Mexican border has been decaying for a long time...
So that just leaves you with tax cuts. Thanks for playing!
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
How do you figure that? Seems like the British were the bullies in that event...
I do agree with you in general, this nation has become quite arrogant and abrasive with power. Ever since WWII the USA has had foreign policies which I found/find offensive and a citizen of the USA. Notably, the forcing of our backwards drug laws on other nations in return for trade.
Blar.
My understanding of it is that his treatment was a little different.
It's all in his interview, and the White House doesn't deny a word of it.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
I like the N:Vision green packaged bulbs from Home Depot. Overall they are pleasing to the eye and, like you, I hated CFLs in the past. I've replaced 12 bulbs in my house so far and will replace the rest as they burn out. They've come a long way from my first try 5 years ago or so. Likewise, I've also had some ugly incandescent bulbs in the past.
It's that belief structure that makes democracy not work.
Who cares if he's republican, who cares if he's conservative. He's the president. That means he should act in the best interests of the nation WHETHER OR NOT he personally agrees with it. That means letting all sides be heard, not squelching things he doesn't agree with. That means doing things that his party may not like, because it's the right thing to do.
That type of thinking is why most elections are worthless nowadays, because you have people who tick a box for a party without caring about the person's beliefs or if that party really agrees with that they believe themselves.
You never realize how much manually made unmanaged "linked" lists suck, till you have src.link.link.link.link...
Of course, you'll never hear the media criticize Clinton.
Easily solved: vote him back in.
Clinton is history, Bush is now, who do you think deserves more criticism?
Blank until
Everyone knows Jesus created Global Warming as punishment for humans creating Islam. The Surgeon General has it all wrong.
I will assume you mean our illicit drug laws (as opposed to the law about importing prescription meds which I largely agree with).
I have to think that if most illegal drugs were treated like alcohol (specifically relating to public intoxication, DUI, coming to work drunk earns a pink slip) then the black market economy would collapse (a good thing), and we could focus on treatment for those who want it (a good thing), and better enforce the few remaining drugs that are genuinely bad. While I personally would tan my kids' hides if I caught them doing X or speed (and related) I see that as my right (and responsibility) as a parent.
Back on topic though,
I am really saddened by my government's actions, and it's not really the president's fault (sure he's complicit), it is our system's fault. If either we had both parties agree that social support programs were necessary and the only difference of opinion was how to implement the programs, or if both parties were focused on private charity and support being the way to go, this country would be vastly improved. Fact is, that career politicians look after their career first and the public second. That is the root of the problem. One of my co-workers said he felt that every term in office should be followed by a term in jail, I'm almost inclined to agree.
-nB
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I had the same complaint 10 years ago. Based on slashdotters telling me these problems have been solved, I went out and bought 5 more CFLs. Still takes a minute to reach full brightness. In 6 months I'll know whether the new breed lasts any longer than 10 years ago. I hope so because of the mercury (in the tube) and other toxic metal (in the electronics) content of CFLs.
Ice Cream has no bones.
I bought 5 Phillips brand bulbs of various sizes. They all take a minute to reach full brightness. Will know in 6 months whether lifetime has improved.
It sounds horrible, but I really see this war as unethical and honor-less and the reflects on the men fighting it. I still do respect those men who were already in the military before Bush went on this bender. They just want to protect the country and they are being abused. Anyone who enlisted after 2004 when it was obvious to the nation that Bush was a liar...not so much respect.
But still...I just don't care what happens to suckers who believe the lies told them by government.
Blar.
I agree. They come in three color temperatures; I usually get the middle one, I always hated "soft white" bulbs, they make everything yellow. The coolest ones make everything look blue, though - the middle ones give the truest color I've seen in indoor lighting, at least to my eyes. Of the several we've installed, only one takes a while to warm up, and luckily it's just in the bathroom. We've replaced most of our bulbs with them. I just wish the soft white ones weren't so popular so they'd stock more of the cooler ones.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
n/t
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I'll respect his views regarding medical subjects, but he is no more qualified to discuss climate science than I am.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Yeah, all those climatologists are really liars. What do they know? A small number of inactive researchers, oil company shills and White Office spokespeople weigh a lot more than the climatological community.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
welcome our new republican overlords oh and condoms dont work, just ask my dad.
medreport 3.12.06 reporting gw globalwarming doubleplusungood refs unthings rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
That is really interesting that he said that.
What I can't stand is the whole "two wrongs make a right" thinking of this administration's unconditional supporters. When are people going to understand that EVERY ADMINISTRATION should be held to high standards, especially in this area of ideological interference with supposedly independent branches of government. Philosophically, this ideal is what separates our democracy from totalitarian governments, and it is incredibly important. I think any objective observer would find massive abuses of the noninterference ideal from this administration. As a scientist (casually associated with major US and international societies in biology), I can tell you there are few of us who are comfortable with this administration's constant interference with science. Frankly, this is the opinion that should matter the most (meritocracy), not the constant pundit rants about how "clinton did it too! clinton did it too!" For one, the crap that happened under Clinton was disorganized at best, not some concerted effort such as that taking place by the neocons. It seems lately every government institute comes under pressure from political ideology now -- the EPA, the attorney general, NIH, and now the surgeon general's office. In the end though, I can't stand Tony Snow constantly dodging questions by saying Clinton did it too as if that makes everything ok.
BTW... Are there any Bush fans at all not posting as AC?
Gotta love how FACTS that hurt the leftists are constantly labeled as trolling. Gawd I hate /. so much some times.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
*shudder* So much pasty skin...
You can't take the sky from me...
Climatology is not a liberal science. It is science, plain and simple.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I live in Cobb county Georgia (stickers on Bio texts saying Evolution is a theory and not fact) and I'd like to apologize on behalf of my neighbors - the ones with the Mall Terrain Vehicles with the pristine "Bush/ Cheney '00" and the "W '04" bumper stickers on them for keeping his approval rating that high.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
You just quit caring about Iraq? Even if you don't care who dies, what about the $500,000,000,000 we've wasted so far, and the likely $500,000,000,000 we'll waste in the future before we finally pull out?
We're talking about a trillion dollars here. Enough to fund about SEVEN Apollo programs in today's dollars!
Talk about getting screwed over in your business relationship! You ought to care about that.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Oh For God's sake, don't any of you people have lamp shades??!!! Even the whitest light imaginable passing through a yellow lampshade will come out yellow.
Since this is Slashdot think of the shade as a "hack" on the light spectrum maybe that'll motivate you to use your brain to solve this incredibly complex problem of "how do I make white light less white?"
Yeesh.
The Generation
I'd say something witty here, but I'm not that bright.
What is the point of the story. President's men don't let somebody in the administration go off message with stories about some hokey quasi religious opinions [Global warming], assorted tivial issues [stem cell, special olympics, smoking].
I mean do you really think this was censorship or just comebody confused about their job? When you are appointed a spokesperson for the President of the United States, well you better believe your job is to talk about what the President wants and not what you want, and focus on what the President ultimately decides and not what you decide.
This is no different then lets say Journalist who continuously buck their editors, yea the story may have some significance, but you're not doing your job.
"The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), an organization that was covertly created by Philip Morris for the express purpose of generating scientific controversy regarding the link between secondhand smoke and cancer."
They have recently been mostly funded by the oil lobby for the express purpose of... well, you can deduce that last bit.
You can't take the sky from me...
Of course, you'll never hear the media criticize Clinton.
What the fuck are you talking about? Did you just not watch the news or pay attention to anything while Clinton was in office?
This article is here because we, slashdotters, prefer to keep current with news of technology and science. One of America's top scientists has something to say about how he was not allowed to speak to the scientific evidence he witnissed as Surgeon General.
While there will always be political pressure in one direction or another, the amount that this regime has spewed has crossed the line several times over.
You compare supressing the teaching of children to masterbate to supressing proper sex education that goes beyond abstinence only (that lesson has serve our current crop of teenage mothers so well!!), stem cell research that might save thousands from suffering, and mental health issues that impacting millions of Americans. Damn, you hit it on the money. Clinton was horrible president because he could have save thousands from the pain of trial and error. Hell, lets teach them how to have sex while were at it.
We bash Bush because he is the worst President in recent history. The US Government doesn't accomplish anything it sets out to do. Bring democracy to the Middle East- oops sorry, evacuate New Orleans- oops sorry, capture bin Laden- oops sorry, retard illegal immigration-oops sorry, or even get me a passport in 6 weeks- oops sorry. The failure is bad enough but he will knowingly do something wrong just to appease his base. We should and will bash Bush everday from now until he leaves office.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
There are no bullied scientists out there. Good grief, but if you changed your post to "Evolutionists" you'd have your stock Creationist diatribe.
No one is stopping such scientists from publishing articles, and there have been some articles published that question certain facets of the global warming debate. You've been listening to the liars too long. Think about it. You're actually saying that a) most Climatologists are politically-motivated liberals and b) that they have entered a conspiracy that includes misinformation and silencing opposition.
And what the fuck does Al Gore have to do with anything? This is pure strawman through and through. I personally have only watched about two minutes of An Inconvenient Truth, and don't plan on watching any more of it. So why don't you speak to me about the scientists you claim are being censored (we could start with the names), as well as the evidence that active researchers that are critical are being censored.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
>What else has to happen before serious discussions over Bush's impeachment occur?
Somebody has to testify before Congress, to articulate a case that is supported by evidence, that Bush has committed a serious crime. This argument must be made to a degree sufficient to persuade one or more Members of Congresst to act by introducing an Article of Impeachment. It really is that simple. For all the talk among people who have convinced themselves the case is open and shut, a foregone conclusion, none of them has an argument that will persuade Congress.
To persuade the average American, as opposed to Congressional Representatives, it is merely necessary to state a case that is easily and immediately recognized as something you get fired for. "Having sex in the office" resonated wildly among the lowest common denominator - pretty much everybody agrees that if you get caught doing that, you get fired for it (getting caught being the crime, not necessarily the act!) Breaking into a hotel -- there you go! If Joe Blow's Brother-in-Law got caught breaking into hotels and Joe got caught pawning the TV they stole -- Joe knows that he'd probably go to jail.
All these convoluted, complicated arguments that require more than a few seconds to explain, and all these crimes that *only* would be a problem a President would have, resonate as close to Joe Blow as the problems of a King in a Shakespeare Play -- that is, not at all -- Joe Blow neither has nor understands the problems of a King.
So what's on the table for impeachment? Lies to justify War? Too complicated, too credible of defenses, and people are too willing to equate opposition to the war with surrender and abandonment of the troops. (I suspect few people in the dialog today remember Vietnam). What else? Geneva Conventions? This is a problem only a King has. People are not nearly as convinced that Geneva Conventions have been violated, and in any case, there is plausible defense against this argument. What else? Illegal wiretaps? Catch-22 or not, nobody has come forward with evidence that his "wire" was illegally "tapped" (I'm aware of the difficulty of obtaining that evidence, but, that's the way the system works).
The whole Bush Administration is staffed with incompetent crooks from top to bottom, don't get me wrong -- but the case for impeachment has not yet been made.
Instead of being frustrated that it hasn't been done already, get to work on the case. You need to make the case for Congress based on a legitimate legal argument and evidence, and it will be most helpful if you can also make the case in a dozen words or less, based on something that the average Joe on the subnormal half of the bell curve can recognize as something he himself would get arrested or fired for doing.
Simple, eh?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I PITY THE FOOL who wants to elect somebody based on their performances as fictional characters!
Mr T won world's toughest bouncer, twice. The second time got him noticed by Stallone, and a chance to be a fictional character.Before that he was an MP, he legally changed his name to "Mr T" so everyone would have to call him mister, and T is for tough (and booker and his real initial).
He invested his money in gold, which he wore around his own neck, all 60lbs of it. If you want it, you have to come get it from him.
He donated most of said gold to help the victims of Katrina, he beat cancer, etc.
He's a character alright, but he's not fictional.
You can't take the sky from me...
I can't believe this comes as news. I worked w/ a bunch of scientists (in a government institution) and it was horrendous how much censorship there was. Some guys quit after the Bush admin. came to power because they literally couldn't publish anything. The guys that stayed just haven't published anything in the past several years. They aren't allowed to speak at any conference without their speech being reviewed and "edited" (censored). Since they were mostly environmental and earth scientists, that meant 50% of the presentation was removed. They didn't have this restriction w/ Clinton. Believe it or not, most of the scientific community supports the idea of climate change. It appears it's split down the middle because the media has been giving each side equal coverage (because they're the news and it looks better if they show both sides).
The Republican War on Science, by Chris Mooney
WARNING: This book will make you very pissed off.
It describes obvious efforts by the administration to suppress findings that go against its political agenda. The most insidious tactic used is the muddying of waters. Especially using an amazing term known as "junk science". "Junk Science" basically means any scientific finding that doesn't agree with the administration.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
Why did he serve for 4 years and only afterwards whine about his treatment? The time to make a serious point was at while it was happening to pu publicly resign.
Back in what we all tend to think of as the dark ages and other periods of ancient history, we had people suppressing science for religious reasons... but back then religion and politics were mostly the same thing anyway. Technically, today they are not the same thing though there are some clear connections being allowed anyway.
It seems that so many important advances in the sciences have been in spite of government and religion instead of because of them. And yet while we HAVE these useful technologies, government and religion are all about using them and abusing them and often thanking "god" for them.
Will we ever have more than tiny revolutions where real "thinking" becomes popular?
I often hold forth in a pithy and informative way on a variety of scientific topics, and usually find my audience struck dumb with admiration.
I was concerned at first by the fact that they never seem to have any questions. But I learned to ask, "I'm not boring you, am I?" They never are. Clearly I have enlightened them in such a lucid manner that questions are superfluous.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
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That's probably because Bush thought he was spozedta be the "Surgin' General" to take all them troops into Iraq. When he instead heard a bunch of science mumbo jumbo he HAD to do SOMETHING!!
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Now along comes Bush, he does what they did, but does it to a greater extreme, and you argue we should just leave him alone? I just don't follow your logic...
Actually, I do, it's: "Clinton did it" absolves all sins.
I always thought you Republicans hated Clinton, but it's becoming clear you think he's up there with Christ. Apologies for having you figured all backwards in the past.
Will we ever have more than tiny revolutions where real "thinking" becomes popular?
;) and if you define "real thinking" as intellectualism, you get bolsheviks, jacobins, national socialists, the whole bloody lot.
Revolutions run by intellectuals are pretty much bloody horrors. There's a difference between wisdom and intelligence (there's a reason why they're separate D&D stats
Actually, most of those horrors come from romanticism, which needs to be eradicated from "real thinking" when it comes to dealing with governments and regulating peoples' rights. Romanticism (as opposed to realism) may very well be too dangerous to be allowed to control things, if the 20th century is any guide.
Beauty is _not_ truth. That's just what beauty wants you to _think_, so you'll be able to rationalize your succumbing to romanticism.
"Why isn't anyone questioning what expertise a surgeon general could have in the field of GLOBAL WARMING?"
Exactly. Which is why we should question why anybody listens to Al Gore on the subject.
Hmm... Bush lied, people died?
Just about every board that wasn't explicitly set up as a conservative site has drifted "leftward" lately, particularly technically and scientifically oriented ones. Is this a vast liberal conspiracy, or just another case of facts speaking for themselves?
In general, lamp shades act as filters that attenuate certain bands. If you don't have a particular color frequency to begin with, a lamp shade isn't going to help you any. The problem with certain lighting isn't that it's "too white" but rather that there are some frequencies that just aren't there (at least, not in sufficient quantities). For example, if you start with a bulb that produces only green light, all the filters and shades in the world aren't going to get any red photons out of it.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
Of course they do. Didn't you know conservatives opposed the Americans with Disabilities Act as unfair government meddling with business? Much like any other minority, conservatives would be happier if they were simply swept under the rug and were forced to deal with a world built for the majority.
It's a combination of Social Darwinism from the libertarian side of the party and a desire to see crippled people more dependent on private organizations (i.e. churches) from the religious right side. (Another reason why, as a Christian, I can't stand the religious right.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Now just what in the hell is that? A rubber that comes with duct tape?
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
[T]he SG serves the people at the pleasure of the President (Executive).
Out of curiosity, since this seems to be the current right-wing talking point... Are there any executive branch positions that are not meant to serve at the pleasure of the President and which are *not* meant to partisan, in your eyes?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
What surgeon general information did Clinton suppress?
I know he asked her to step down after pissing off a bunch off twits because santa clause(or whoever the magic person is they believe in) doesn't like people masturbating, but did he censor anyone?
No he shouldn't have fired her, she was a good Surgeon General.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
But the people that need to make that call are ON HIS SIDE. I don't mean republican side, I mean there part of his person agenda. SO no matter what evidence you have, nothing will happen because you and I can't call someone up and get them to follow up.
If the pretzel had only been a little larger, perhaps thousands of Americans would still be alive.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You expect me to read that rambling piece of shit from townhall?
the first three paragraphs so far have not even gotten close to discussing what actually happened and i have run out of patience.
if you've got a better source with at least one journalism degree among the staff i'll read that.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
>But the people that need to make that call are ON HIS SIDE.
I asked for a compelling argument, supported by evidence -- not more excuses. I've heard all the excuses and conspiracy theories. Not good enough.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
You dislike the Republican party right now and think that they at least had some dignity in the past; you know a candidate for the Republican party that actually DOES stand for what you want, and because he is running on a Republican ticket he has a chance of winning. And you refuse to vote for him?
If you can't say something nice, make sure you have something heavy to throw.
>War Crimes
Yes, I agree, but whenever people try to make the case on legal doctrine, with the evidence available, it doesn't quite work.
You can't bring him to trial citing vague "war crimes," you have to be specific. YOU may be persuaded by your unmade argument, but it doesn't look like you're ready to go up on the podium, pass your evidence around the room, look a Congressional committee in the eye and expect to convice them to stake their reputations on your case.
So far, the arguments that war crimes were committed, have plausible defenses that the President is entitled to raise.
It's "obvious" that Bush is a criminal and a war profiteer. Personally I agree. But to make the legal case, based on law and applicable doctrine, and to support that case with specific evidence, in a way that overwhelms the defense, and to a degree necessary to persuade the one body that must be persuaded, is quite another matter entirely.
You think the House of Representatives hasn't heard the claim that Bush committed war crimes? You think they don't realize that "everybody believes" he should be impeached?
Yet nobody comes forth with the case that takes Bush from "impeachable" to "must be impeached".
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
... I have to ask you Americans: why aren't the majority of you out in the street, protesting? I have no doubts that the majority of you are aware that your administration is blatantly corrupt and out of control. But where are the mass public demonstrations? Are you passively just waiting for the 2008 elections? Don't you realize that the Democrats will be just as blatantly corrupt if they see the electorate as a bunch of push-overs that are more interested in watching Pop Idol than protesting against their government?
Seriously, you guys are smart. You know what the real deal is. Have you simply lost all morale? Or is it something else? Please, I am not trying to start a flame war here (hence my not posting as AC). I would love to hear your stories.
Well, I would take issue with your comments about global warming, but you are certainly right about us still burning things for fuel. If there are aliens that have watched Earth, they are probably saying something along the lines of:
"The humans want us to contact them."
"Screw 'em! They are still powering everything by setting fire to it! Who wants to talk to a bunch of stupid primitives."
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
Or at UPS or FedEx. Their business model relies it being cheap to operate huge fleets of carbon-spewing airplanes and trucks.
Or at Amazon.com. Which would go out of business without UPS or FedEx.
Or at any big company whose business model depends on shipping a lot of stuff back and forth. Which nowadays is all of them.
Or you. Yes, you, the guy who drives to work alone because it's a pain to carpool or ride transit. And don't tell me you own a hybrid — 70% of a huge carbon footprint is still a huge carbon footprint.
But you're right. There's been a good case for cutting back on fossil fuels long before anybody heard about global warming. There's only so much of it, and nobody's making any more. This has been known for over a century.
So why isn't anything being done about it? Because our economy and our lifestyle is built around cheap energy, and nobody is willing to make the sacrifices involved in a major change. Or if they do, that makes them irrelevant — those crazy hippies down the block who don't own a car.
Instead we do marginal stuff like switching to florescent bulbs and driving hybrids. We spend a little extra on "green power" and tell Congress to spend a little extra on new sources of energy. But not too much—taxes are already too high.
Face facts. Maybe you're not one of the moral Neanderthals who doesn't want to hear about climate change, resource depletion, and environmental degradation. But you're still part of the problem. Because even though you admit the problem exists, you tell yourself you don't have to make any big sacrifices to turn things around. And that means that you're fooling yourself, just as much as the guy who won't thinks the problem is just a scam to take away his SUV.
When did the SG become a spokesperson for the president? His job is to advise the president on health issues.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
Bush claims he's spreading "freedom and democracy" (or 'Freeman Moxy' as he calls it) around the world, but it appears there must be only a finite quantity as he seems hell bent on reducing it at home.
Oh well, he only has eighteen months left before he's kicked out on his arse (or ass). What ticks me off - well, apart from everything, and the fact that apathy allows him to get away with it - is that those of us who live in other friendly western nations such as Australia and the UK also have to live with the consequences of his tiny intellect and we don't get to vote for/against him. Our own leaders are little more than "me too" lickspittles without the backbone to say "no more!". Until recently there was no electable opposition with an aganda worth a flying fig, but things are changing. I think the political landscape is going to look very different two years from now - roll on that day!
Americans - when even your best friends are telling you that you stink, don't you think it's about time you started taking the problem seriously?
"The mood in America is shifting rapidly, and President Bush has gone from hero to goat.
On this trip to the state where George Bush launched his disastrous political career, I purposely decided to wear my impeachment shirt while traveling, as a way of gauging popular sentiment."
~ awaiting spiritual enlightenment ~
Then you should prepare your resume now in German... and good luck finding a job in Western Europe amid the high unemployment rate there.
I'm certain that, in the relevant meetings, the Surgeon General would be one of the few (if not the only) trained scientist in the room.
I'm also pretty certain that he'd be pretty up-to-date on the scientific issues of the day, because he would (amongst other things) be reading peer-review publications that covered more than just biology. You know, the ones that have had thousands of papers backing up global warming with hard, empirical data and not a single one that contradicts them.
But, putting that aside, the Surgeon General's job is to protect the long-term public health.
And if a situation that has the potential to cause millions of medical emergencies (from skin cancers and heat stroke deaths at one end of the scale to making large parts of the planet very uncomfortable for human life, as well as destroying the ecosystems upon which that human life depends on for sustanance), well, I would think that it would be his duty to speak up and explain the potential risks and consequences to those who should be made aware of them.
I'm guessing from the rest of your post that you'd be more comfortable with scientific input being provided by the Christian right than by a man with a decent grasp of the best data available and the knowledge and understanding of what it actually means.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
because its upon us nonetheless.
Read radical news here
Disclaimer: I am an Australian and I don't hate the US, this is just an honest observation. Most of the Americans I meet are good people.
Maybe not the bully in the revolution, although some of the things you yanks lumped on the British were exaggerated.
The problem is that you essentially became bullies, victims of your own success in your revolution and as a result you are unable to untie your nation from war and violence. We hear volumes of about the great America at war, but next to nothing about the great America at peace. Like I said this is due to being victims of your own success early on, up to and including WWII, then you made the worst mistake possible, you believed your own marketing and got into a few unwinable wars at it has cost the US. A great many social and political problems would be greatly diminished (some would disappear completely) if US society stopped glorifying violence.
As I said I don't hate the US, I was and still am a staunch supporter of the ANZUS treaty despite the quagmire you got us involved with in Iraq and the terrible trade policies the US has against us (Australia).
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
If the liberals have their way, this will become a Nanny State or a Prison Nation in that we are told what to eat, how to behave, and how to act.
The Surgeon General has released statements that use fear to control people's eating habits, buying habits, behavior and actions. He uses fear to control people in the same way that a terrorist uses fear. He takes money from companies that want him to make statements that use fear to control people to buy their products. In this case the Surgeon General took money from the pro-global warming lobbyists so that he can release statements that force people to buy carbon credits and use products that the pro-global warming companies and organizations sell. In this way global warming is a scam. Global warming is a new religion spawned from liberals in order to control people with it and eventually control the world. Releasing CO2 into the atmosphere is a sin, but can be forgiven by buying carbon credits.
Soon, people won't be able to have the freedom to decide for themselves anymore, and will have organizations run by liberals telling them what to do. Everyone should have the freedom to choose how to live their lives and what they should do. Let us end this tyranny that the Surgeon General, PETA, etc have on the lives of many people that force them how to decide using scare tactics. Let us give back the freedom to decide for themselves to the people again once more!
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
If you were right (and you're not) it's not censorship for the administration to direct its appointees to focus on topic and messages the administration priorized.
What I get from the story is that President is a far more powerful position than Presidential Appointee.
I would have been impressed had the Surgeon General declared, the FIRST time he objected, that he would be resigning the post and entering into private practice. (Aside from giving up a couple of years of the Federal retirement package, he would have greatly increased his earning power.)
But no. Republicans waited until it was too late to *do* anything about it, to start turning coat. Now that the soon-to-be-former Bush Administration will be exiting before any real action against it can churn through the slow process, what's the point?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Don't really care to read much about this non-issue, but if this "censorship" did in fact happen, personally I'm glad. Whether or not your average slashdotter agrees, issues like global warming _are_ political. If this person was trying to push a political agenda, I'm glad they were "censored" some.
The religion of global warming is a scary thing...
I'm sure that's true, but the question at issue here is who the ventriloquists were telling the "dummy" what to say.
One also has to wonder why it takes the "dummy" this long to come forward; was dummy more concerned about keeping said cushy job than doing the right thing? Instead he waits until he's an ex-SG and after the crime is no longer in progress before coming forward.
With self-centered enablers like this, is it any wonder we can't manage to impeach the bastard(s)?
Bullshit. Republicans just have more and bigger scandals. You want an example? Look at the Republican candidates. The three top candidates have all had divorces involving infidelity. Now look at the Democratic candidates. You don't see any divorces, and the only infidelity you see isn't by the candidate but by her husband.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
When did I work with you?
Our founding fathers removed the guys in charge. Be American. Vote incumbents out.
Anal sex is common in pre-literate societies and has been frequently observed among primates (especially bonobos). According to this Wikipedia article, it has been observed among many hundreds of species, and "No species has been found in which homosexual behavior has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all".
180 degree double take. A Prison Nation where we are highly controled through fear? How on earth can you blame liberals for the things the Bush administration is working like mad to implement right now? Have you not been paying attention to the play by play? Need proof? Try taking a walk through downtown New York wearing a head scarf and take a bunch of tourist photos sometime. Try lighting up in a public place and see what happens. Try preventing your kids from being immunized in some states. Try owning a gun in others. Try getting an abortion for your girlfriend. Try wearing a teeshirt which says "Impeach Bush" to the Whitehouse. Heck, try buying Organic food, (the Bush government just made it legal for non-organic food producers to use the Organic label.) Try taking a book out of the library about how to blow stuff up. Try making a phone call through AT&T and expecting privacy. And on and on.
In this case the Surgeon General took money from the pro-global warming lobbyists [. .
Give me a break. You can't back that up. The Surgeon General doesn't even have the power to do anything about fossil fuel emissions. Heck, the major sticking point had more to do with Stem Cell research than anything else.
I don't think Wester Medicine is all too great, and I'm not even a liberal. (I don't play the tweedle dee and tweedle dum political division game.) --But I have noticed that people who cleave to the conservative side often exist in a state of perpetual delusion and anger.
Take a deep breath and rethink your statements because they don't make sense.
-FL
So Koop wasn't told to stifle it, instead of talking about AIDS? And Joycelyn Elders wasn't given the bums rush when she told kick to whack off? That's news to me.
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
As an outsider I thought this was how the US worked. Your either with us or against us.
It is not about the issues in the US. Its about being part of the "team".
The President has released statements that use fear to control people's voting beliefs, behavior, and actions. He has released statements known at the time to be false, and the press reported them as factual and even know people refuse to believe that they were false. He uses fear to control people the way a terrorist uses fear, he uses lies to control people the way a con-artist uses lies. He takes advice from companies that want him to make statements that use fear to control Congress and loosen the purse strings so he can spend our tax money on their products and services. He does this for Halliburton, Qualcomm, and others to get them contracts in Iraq, to force people who think they're being "patriotic" to support his foolish war... the war that is a scam. The "New American" religion is built on distorted readings of old religion, spawned by neoconservatives to control people and eventually control the world.
Thanks for providing a good example of how hard it can be to understand science.
This project has the potential to be meaningful, but it has a long way to go yet. They need a hypothesis, a rigorous way to test it, and repeatable results.
What the surfacestations project has right now is the beginnings of a hypothesis--that local changes have biased the long-term trends that weather stations have recorded. It's not really a strong one yet because they don't have good coverage yet...last time I checked there were like 15 station reports, out of well over a thousand, and that's just the NOAA stations.
Once they have good coverage they'll need to devise a quantitative way to test for bias in the readings. This might involve placing duplicate weather stations nearby but further from the alleged bias factors, and looking for long-term differences in readings. Or it might involve comparative statistical analysis to check the data trends from these terrestial stations with satellite and other terrestrial data sets. The point is, they are going to have to do some testing or comparison involving precise numerical data.
Then their conclusions have to be peer reviewed and published, where they will become public knowledge for other scientists to poke around in, look for flaws, and try to repeat.
Unfortunately you jumped right past all that stuff, straight to a belief that the mere existence of this site somehow provides support for your pet theory. It doesn't.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Don't bother. Showing them real evidence and proof will only confuse the liberals.
They only accept "junk" science that has been stamped with an official liberal seal.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
It really does look like education in the USA has declined significantly. The last thing we need is 300 million people who believe in conspiracy theories and think educated people are living off bribes. I'm hoping the above rant was a joke - if not could the above poster please supply their age so we have some idea how much time we have left before most postions of power in the USA are occupied by dangerous luddites.
"The three top candidates have all had divorces involving infidelity. "
This is your big example? Bill Clinton was doing Lewinsky in the Oval Office, and everyone just fave him a big atta boy. You may want to pick your choice of scandal better next time.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Ah, so you're one of those. Link to an article where mainstream science, or Al Gore for that matter, said global warming would "jeapardize the existence of man." You're creating a classic strawman argument. By pretending that the scientists investigating global warming are all alarmist hand-wavers, you have identified what your "research" consisted of. You read a bunch of conservative talking points saying that "alarmist" scientists think that global warming will wipe out all life, and since it won't, we can't trust them. But that isn't the mainstream scientific position, and anyone who has "researched" this would know that.
Do you also feel qualified to "research" the germ theory and weigh in with your insights? How damned arrogant can you really be? Can I do a bit of reading in my study, ponder a bit, and just expect to wash away plate tectonics, the heliocentric model of the solar system, the germ theory, the atomic theory, or other mainstream scientific theories? No, and only an arrogant ass would think that their opinion, based on a bit of half-assed "research" on conservative blogs, was more informed that the entire damned scientific community. Could you possibly have a higher opinion of yourself?
I take it you didn't actually read my message closely, nor the actual papers I linked to. Try reading the papers, then get back to me.
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What do you mean? We *are* revolting.
Har har. *sob*
Problem is that those of us who actually pay attention to these things must have some sort of a priori bias against whoever did them bad things, or else we wouldn't be paying attention in the first place. Therefore my opinion is worthless to anyone not already interested in it, and anyone interested in it cannot be trusted to have an unbiased opinion.
[|]
Why is that some things are happening at this stage? 1. The gentleman's story about being gagged (if I may use the word) 2. Discussions in the media on the hopeless situation with the international initiatives of the GBW administration 3. Republicans leaving their stated positions of support for GBW To me it looks like the media is doing some kind of penance for its actions in the past. Can't help but refer to Michael Moore's remarks about the media not having been vigilant enough. I think you will see more of GBW bashing and a false sense of fair reporting (for the average person) in the near future.
So the $40M Starr investigation that lead to nothing was a big atta boy?
~S
Politicians are usually scum, regardless of political party. No need to be any more articulate than that.
I also noticed that 80% of Americans hip-hip hoorayed a war in Iraq killing 100s of thousands of innocent people and providing a hotbed for global terrorism.
I recall quite vividly that every critic of the war, was derided, smeared, insulted and partially threated for their lives.
I noted that this administration, elected (at least the second time by a majority of US citizens) leaked the name of an undercover intelligence operative for no better reason then to smear her husband, who the administration didn't like.
I recall a hell of a lot really bad and rotten things for which this administration and ultimnately the people that elected them are responsible.
That, quite likely, includes you.
So please don't give me this "we're all so much against it, but those in power..." bullshit.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
.... a delicious moment of visualising Bruce Willis standing over GWB with a Desert Eagle, saying "Yippie kay ay, melonfarmer".
In Australia we had a xenophobic MP who famously replied "please explain" to an accusation of xenaphobia. She was as dumb as dogshit and is good evidence that under our system we still get wako's in postions of power. However she never garnered more than ~5% of the general population outside her electorate and was basically laughed out of office - evidence that there is at least some merit in our system.
"misinformed/uninformed voting"
Now I know AC's don't reply but can anyone "please explain" how the above quote is possible in a democracy - surely ANY rationale for voting is just as valid as ANY other.
OTOH: It could well be that in a "perfect democracy" we would still have to put up with the likes of Hamas, Howard, Bush, Pauline Hanson and Olmert. (Names in order of their electrol support, not military might).
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
...instead of years ago, when he was deep in it.
How come he's only telling us this horror now? I mean, he *was* "Surgeon General" back then. Responsible for science.
Why didn't he complain the moment that damn administration tried to stop him?
Pfff. Not impressive.
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
"I'm glad he spoke up. But hey, maybe this would have helped a bit more five years ago."
In pretty much every government position, Surgeon General or otherwise, if you speak out against your boss you tend to get fired, and to use the old Hollywood cliche, "Never work in this town again". This is especially true with the Bush administration.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Well then the Bush Administration is not doing its job properly, or you'd be in jail instead of posting on Slashdot. If even half of what you posted was true, many US Citizens that speak out against Bush would be in jail, the fact that they are not proves that not only are they wrong, but so are you. Dollars to donuts when Al Aqeda recruits someone to do a suicide bombing in the USA, it will more likely be someone like you who hates the USA that does the suicide bombing.
as liberals have done those things for the past thirty years. The Surgeon General position has been used to control and manipulate people for the past fifty years now.
so we know when Liberal Internet posters started being brainwashed in public schools by liberal professors? That is the real truth behind the failing education system.
Of course elected officials take bribes and lobbyists influence their votes. If not, why do the lobbyists exist in the first place?
"Would it be OK for Bush to eat Jew baby brains if Clinton did too?"
No. It would make those who stood silently while Clinton feasted, but freaked out when Bush did the same hypocrites, however.
The point you and your kind miss when this happens is that large portions of the people so vehemently denouncing Bush for his wrongs ignored the wrongs when it was their guy. Hypocrites. By the way, I said impeach both of them.
"My fucking goodness are people stupid...in this country..."
Don't be so hard on yourself.
Should read "Former Surgeon Generals describe pressures from Bush, Clinton, and Reagan Administrations"
As much as you leftist loonies would love to slant this, it's not just Emperor Bush at fault here. Now this certainly doesn't absolve the current administration, but at least be honest.
Ahh, right. So it was Reagan's liberal agenda behind such left-wing radicals as C. Everett Koop. But of course only liberals get taken in by the alleged links between tobacco and lung cancer, right?
Wait, isn't this the same guy that says drinking is bad for you too? I'm not sure I'd trust anything this guy says...
Sam
People have anal sex because they like it. Keep in mind that your mouth, which has incredible amounts of bacteria in it, is also often used for sex. It's not "made for" sex either but people have oral sex all the time too. Further, many people(you might be one of them) make the same argument against oral sex that you make about anal sex. Tell you what, have sex with just one person for about 15 years, come back and then tell us that anal still isn't something you'd try. Eventually you'll want to do something different and "wild".
Also, anal sex is not "stinky" if you do it right. Although some people actually like it stinky and dirty. But those people tend to be republican.
Let's looks at the choices. You've got the republicans, can't vote for them, they were in favor of the war. However to vote against them is to vote for the incompetent democrats who rolled over and voted for the war too. No one else has a shot at winning, unless some celebrity decides to run as an independent and then we're really in trouble. As it stands now, we have (too much) food on the tables, roofs over our heads, and all the pr0n we want a few mouse clicks away. That the people were in favor of the war when they thought it would be easy but against after it turned out not to be is unfortunately not surprising, but shows that we have the government that we deserve. Things are going to have to get a lot worse before they can get better, and those in power are smart enough not to let things get bad enough.
What is it with this "liberal" insult I hear from Americans? Liberal seems to have a particularly insulting meaning in the US - the rest of us just don't understand what the hell you're going on about. What does it mean?
Liberal science!!! Yeah - non-US "liberals" across the planet are busily devouring only science that comes with this "US liberal" stamp.... not! You guys need to get your heads out of your rear-ends long enough to realise that the you are a tiny proportion of the planet's people, who largely don't give a shit about your retarded politics, except it happens to affect us a bit more than we'd like it to.
Deeply ironic on a discussion thread about the politicisation of science.
The main problem is that republicans refuse to believe *ANY* facts that contradict their beliefs. It's only after years, thousands of deaths and billions of dollars that some republicans reluctantly accept the fact that the Iraq war was a bad idea.
The claim that the issue is unsettled is ridiculous. In serious scientific circles(real scientists who are respected and are not shills) it is clear that global warming is happening and we are contributing to it. Further, it is NOT the job of the Surgeon General to misrepresent facts or lie to the public based on the president's personal beliefs or policy positions. Such an idea is quite anti-American and un-patriotic.
Bah... Who pays any attention to the Surgeon General's office anyway? There's been no doubt for years that the office is totally politicized. Anyone who bases their behavior, or pays any attention whatsoever, on anything produced by the office is a complete moron. Regardless of what party is in office, it's just another megaphone for political opinion. Might as well listen to Rush Limbaugh for your medical opinions...
It's so obvious really. All the scientists around the world have collectively decided to suppress the truth about the world by advancing a secret common political agenda. Because they're so intelligent and amazingly well organised, this is why no emails, documents, phone conversations, or other evidence of this vast global conspiracy has come to light. Maybe Bush should employ the US ones in his intelligence service instead.
I mean, what other explanation can there be?
I may have missed something, but since when does the position of Surgeon General, an appointment concerned with medicine, overlap with earth science? Political appointees should not be going off on wild tangents, totally unconnected to their field of expertise. It sounds like this guy was too busy playing in the sandbox, and wasn't spending enough time in the office.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
"Does that answer your question?"
Yes it does, my question is, what does a blowhard with delusions about the importance of his opinion say when he's cornered after saying something stupid and needs to backpedal, but still wants to include his emotionally charged, sub-human bigotry.
I think you answered it quite clearly.
I'm also sick and tired of hearing people endlessly talking about humans causing global warming. Just because the majority of scientists around the world think so doesn't make it right. And one side of the US political spectrum want to raise taxes to save the goddamn planet. That immediately makes all the science suspect, right there.
The statistically significant proportion of honest scientists who disagree with human causes of global warming definitely exist - must do, because I keep hearing about them on here, but somehow, we never get to hear their names, or how big a minority they are, or see links to their research. Now that's censorship on a global scale! Beyond even the power of the US president to correct this deeply unfair imbalance.
So glad to hear there's still some free thinkers out there who don't need any messy evidence to back up their deeply held convictions.
Unfortunately, Social Services (and by extension, the government) does not agree that tanning your kids' hides is your right and responsibility as a parent.
That's why the government has to discipline them for you, you see.
"that conservatives and Bush-defenders can only resort to a mock "hurt sensibilities" and accusations of name-calling in the light of egregious misbehavior, failed policies, and Machiavellian gumption is both a sign of complete intellectual poverty and utter bald-faced hypocrisy."
So why resort to the same behavior?
OOOH! Your argument helped ME! Sucks to know you destroyed your own attempt at an argument doesn't it?
Uh, did you read my post? My problem is that the light from "soft white" bulbs is too yellow already. And actually, I only have one regular lampshade in my whole house, thanks for asking. And it doesn't make the light any more yellow, thank goodness.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
What the fuck is wrong with you?! It certainly matters why a country goes to war!
Blar.
I've been complaining and writing letters and going to protests since 2003. NOTHING has changed.
What can I do?
It's just easier to let it go, let the Bush voters bleed out into the desert sand like they deserve.
They wanted this un-needed war, and they're mostly dying for it, so let them die.
As for the Iraqis...yeah I feel horrible...but what can I do?
Blar.
Hmm let's see...
"Main Entry: bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group with hatred and intolerance "
So let's see, did you do that?
"Now, these people that you have chosen to ally yourself with have a long track record of being thieves, liars, mass murderers, anti-American religious extremists, and generally demonstrating no redeeming characteristics whatsoever."
WHY YES YOU DID!!!
"I mean is lying all you're truly capable of?"
I'm guessing this isn't you trying to be ironic.
"No, you wouldn't because I did and you didn't."
Fine then, point to one.
"Fact: The election of Reagan was the final nail in the coffin of the old Republican party."
Are you really so ignorant that you think that is a fact? By the way, YOU NEVER SAID THAT IN YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS. So now, not only are you not intelligent enough to discern the difference between "fact" and "opinion", you're making up new "facts" as well.
"There are several more facts there which you are unable to refute. Hint that's why they're *facts*"
First of all, there aren't said facts anywhere in your post. You're a liar. Second, I like very much your tactic of putting the burden of proof for your "facts" on me, but alas, you know very well it's on YOU to prove the veracity of your "facts", not on me to disprove them (especially since you're lying about their existence).
"You have nothing to back up whatever delusional positions you hold and so do nothing but whine about how people are being mean merely because they speak the truth."
I never once called anyone mean, stop lying. But then, if you stopped lying, you'd have nothing to post.
You lost, got shut up, and lied. Now you're calling me troll. Again, I don't think that's you trying to be ironic.
Post your "facts" (and not that idiotic drivel you attempted in this post, neither of your "facts" are facts by any definition of the word) then SOURCE YOUR FACTS REPUTABLY OR SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH.
I'll wait for your "facts" and sources. I suspect it will be a long wait.
So let's see, did you do that?
"Now, these people that you have chosen to ally yourself with have a long track record of being thieves, liars, mass murderers, anti-American religious extremists, and generally demonstrating no redeeming characteristics whatsoever."
WHY YES YOU DID!!!
I did? Where?
Is that not an accurate description of the current Republican party? If not, how not?
I mean really, just because you don't like the way things are does not make me a bigot simply because I'm aware of the facts.
If you read the definition, you'll see that it doesn't say anything about them being deserving of your hatred. You don't get off because you think hating them is justified.
You're a bigot regardless. See how reading for comprehension is valuable? Try it once.
As to when you displayed it, how fucking stupid are you? I posted YOUR QUOTE. Is someone ghostwriting your stuff? You should fire them because they're making you look like a bigoted ignoramus.
So, after all these replies, all you have to show for your effort is proof that you're a bigot, that you can't read very well, and that you have very little skill in differentiating between facts and opinions.
The FACT is you're a bigot. As to your "facts" I'm still waiting for your sources.
I didn't "miss" anything, you posted a statement that never appeared in your "facts" anywhere previously. I stated that. You'll notice I never said it wasn't RELEVANT, only that you never stated it before. Guess that makes YOU the stupid one huh? Reading comprehension is your friend.
Go farther up the thread and you'll see that I did, in fact, *start* with that statement. That was almost the first statement I made in the first post I made in this thread.
Your inability to follow a thread is, like most of what you do I'm sure, your failure.
Deal with your own inadequacies on your own, Clarence.
What on Earth are you talking about? And all of what I posted was true. There are case examples for each one. Just because the Bush government hasn't started making mass arrests doesn't mean that the things I posted are false.
--Though, you'd be a fool to discount the possibility of mass arrests. Based on the patterns being followed by the Bush Admin, unless something changes, you'll see it.
Dollars to donuts when Al Aqeda recruits someone to do a suicide bombing in the USA, it will more likely be someone like you who hates the USA that does the suicide bombing.
Are you a Troll pretending to be insane, or are you really insane? --Because it's exactly that kind of thinking which is driving the dissolution of the U.S. Paranoia feeding the desire to control people.
And for the record, I think the U.S. is a wonderful place. I just don't like the government or the military industrial complex.
-FL
(Though he did have one point -- phrases like "The election of Reagan was the final nail in the coffin of the old Republican party" are not technically facts, but instead well-supported opinions over which I suppose one could have some sort of debate.)
Stop arguing with the retarded kid, please.
;-)
I just noticed his username after my last response. He's actually my own personalized stalker troll.
It's just so adorable. Like the retarded brother I never had
I would argue that "The election of Reagan was the final nail in the coffin of the old Republican party" is actually a fact. When that "opinion" is supported by *every* fact and there are *no* facts that support the contrary position then it is no longer an opinion but a fact.
Just like Copernicus's "opinion" that the sun was the center of the solar system. It's been a fact for billions of years, regardless of the fact that it wasn't widely known.
Is that in any way inaccurate?
which is why some theories get the official liberal stamp of approval on them. Those that don't get the stamp are rejected by liberals. This is why modern science has many failings and why it has become political. It is also why moderates and conservatives often reject theories that have the liberal stamp of approval on them, because they are not true natural science theories but more political science theories. Many so called global warming scientists, for example, hold PHDs in political science and not natural science.
I would hope the rest of the world cares enough that liberals have polluted our sciences with junk science and crackpot theories. Modern science has become yet another religion that liberals believe in, global warming is now a religion and Al Gore is the Pope of global warming. Just like the Church of England had a scam to have people pay money to have sins forgiven to go to Heaven, global warming has the same scam, pay for your sins to be forgiven by buying carbon credits. Only who knows where the money used to buy carbon credits really goes, because it isn't regulated or accounted for anyway.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
people still have their freedoms and rights and liberties, you have yet to prove otherwise. Like I said you try to pass off opinion, speculation, and hearsay as facts and evidence and they are not the same thing.
As far as newspapers go, it depends on the editors of the newspapers based on what they print. Usually they print opinion and speculation instead of facts and evidence. You are more the fool for believing everything you read. I read everything with a grain of salt and I use critical thinking to weed out the opinions and speculations and deduce the facts and evidence from observations and knowledge of the law and constitution. Liberals control most newspapers and news organizations anyway and so they are biased against Bush.
You have not even stated one single fact, and have shown no evidence. I can easily see through your illusion world that you live in like it was made out of glass. Ever since birth you have been spoon-fed bullshit and accept it as the truth. In fact, everything you think you know is wrong. I am quite amazed that you, with such a low intellect, and thinking with your emotions, even made it out of high school much less college. I'll bet it was a liberal college that had a policy of any answer is the right answer as long as you feel good about it? Give us an oral report Fantastic Lad, "Bush is Hitler!" Ok Fantastic Lad as long as you feel good about that, we'll give you an A+. Yet if you knew what Godwin's Law was about, you'd know that you automatically failed in this thread.
I am 38 years old, I served in the military during the Gulf War, I went to college and graduated with honors, I use logic and critical thinking on a day to day basis to weed through the crap and bullshit that the media mass produces to figure out the real truth. I have an IQ of 237, and I am obviously way smarter than you. I am not a liberal or conservative, I am a moderate, yet you don't even know the difference anyway, as you live in your black and white world, when it is really shades of gray and multi colors too.
I agree, that was a big cluster fuck. Either we just ignore the private lives (as long as it's legal) of politicians or we hang 'em all.
I'm so disillusioned at this point I'm just going to vote Libertarian from now on and hope for the best.
I used to like the Republicans, but Dubya has twisted them into pretzels.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
... where else it is obligatory, mate?
Not the UK btw, and I don't think neither Germany, France or Spain.
Forced voting is a bad idea. If the citizenry can be bothered to vote then they deserve the politicians they get.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.