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Unsolicited Offer For My Personal Domain Name?
Batzerto writes "Last Friday I received an unsolicited email offer for my domain — click the link below for the message. Their company name matches my domain, but with a country-specific top level domain (.NL in this case). They do seem to be legitimately using the domain in their country. As for my usage, the domain is my last name(.COM) and I'm only really using it for email. I'm not really that attached to it other than the hassle of changing email addresses. There are other flavors of the domain available (.US for example) that would suit my purposes just fine. So, Slashdot veterans, I ask you, what should I do? I'm leery of making an offer and falling into someone's legal trap. I wouldn't mind getting a chunk of cash out of the deal though."
From: ---
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:56 AM
To: ---
Subject: sell your domain ?
Dear Sir,
For my company I need the domain --- .
Is it possible to sell your domain to me?
Best Regards
N. de Robles
From: ---
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:56 AM
To: ---
Subject: sell your domain ?
Dear Sir,
For my company I need the domain --- .
Is it possible to sell your domain to me?
Best Regards
N. de Robles
This is capitalism.
Google bomb your url with their company name by creating a Slashdot user account with their name and submit thousands of stories each week with your url in the homepage. You can also drop the company's name with an href to your url in CNN comments and on comments for popular blogs to get your pagerank up.
Then inform them that your Search Engine Optimization Chief just caused your URL to be at the top of Google's result list.
If they fail to triple their offer, begin redirecting to goatse. You should see them quadruple their offer then. It's called hardball.
My work here is dung.
Can they accuse you of domainsquatting if you ask for money or something like that?
Seems like I've heard similar horror stories of people losing their domains because they asked someone to make an offer.
There is a war going on for your mind.
Does not hurt to see what they are willing to give you for it.
Sell it, on the condition that you can keep your email address on the domain.
Win-win!
of transferring to your new domain. It might not amount to much, but it is something, and doesn't put you in the greedy category.
you might also want to ask them about forwarding your mail for a period of time or sending a special bouncygram back with your new email address.
I'd ask what they'd want in return.
Then I'd make love to your wife, read a story to your kids, drown your cat and transfer all your cash to a non-profit humanitarian group.
You are soliciting for advice right?
Be a man nancy-boy and make your own decisions. This 'wisdom of the crowds' thing has gone too far.
As you probably noticed yourself, it's likely a legal trap; if you show that you're interested in taking money for the domain name, they will then use that as an argument during legal proceedings that you're a domain name squatter.
So simply don't respond.
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
That's a great way for the Dutch company to sue you in a federal court for trademark infringement, and they'll win if you follow this route. If you use their name, and your url, that's just asking for trouble unless your name and their company name are EXACTLY the same.
I don't know what to do about squeezing them for money, but I wouldn't get any a domain under any TLD other than .com for email. People are idiots and couldn't find my domain (at .org) even after I added .org to the application's name that the site hosted (after taking a cue from open office).
Whale
I think this is the website in question.
Don't know if I crossed a line, but it took all of 1 second on the google.
A lonely girl has sent me an email seeking a relationship. I am a man and this sounds good. Should I seek to get into a relationship with this unknown but self admitted pretty girl?
Not at all.
It isn't at all unreasonable to be willing to sell a domain you own to someone with more use for it.
However, there have been some prominent instances in which a domain owner was successfully sued for control of the domain on the basis that they were willing to accept money for it, and thus, they were just domain-squatters.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
If it's just jokes and crap like that, or even if it is mailing list... why worry to much. Sell it to them with the requirement that you still keep your email address. Even if it is just a redirect.
---
Of course, if there are confidential emails or stuff that would be FYOS appropriate (or that could cause legal problems)... don't do the "keep your email address" part.
Either way... both these options should have been obvious, so it seems that you just want someone to justify your already made decision for you...
you gonna tell us what you are trying to have justified?
When those around you are loosing their heads while you are keeping yours, maybe you've misunderstood the situatiuation.
If they do give you an offer that you like and you wish to sell, I would recommend using an escrow service. This will protect you from being scammed out of your domain name and getting the agreed amount. Unfortunately, most escrow services aren't cheap as they usually take a percentage of the selling price or have some graded-scale based on the sell price.
Just charge an arm and a leg for the address. Check to see if you can pull a six figure price for the domain. Seriously go for it!
Read this, and then decide if you really want to be greedy and take the risk or take the high road and just attempt to recoup your costs.
If you are going to be greedy, prepare and talk to a lawyer.
Or Dear Slashdot: How can I ensure I receive fair market value when selling my domain?
Really, the buyer should have used an anonymous offer service such as the Network Solutions 'Domain Name Certified Offer Service':
http://www.networksolutions.com/domain-name-registration/certified-offer.jsp
(I recently sold chrysler-dodge-jeep.com this way, turned out it was just a dealer, not the corp..
First, think about the likely effort there will be in case the sale is made. If it is more than a one-man shop there will be legal-eese to read.
Second, ask for a draft agreement that transfers the domain. Don't make any demands, and make them feel at ease. The document they send should make you feel at ease for working with them. If it doesn't just say no thanks.
Third, never mention a price. You are at a perpetual disadvantage if you do. A serious disadvantage. "Higher" and "You've got yourself a deal" are the *only* communications you should have.
From here, it's easy to get screwed, so there are some ways to ensure you get _some_ money out of them even if they would like to screw you. I've seen it before for even the littlest thing. I'll take a 5% commission to explain the rest. post a reply to my post with contact info.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
The company has already made an inquiry into purchasing the domain, asking them to make an offer to test their level of interest wouldn't apply. Cold calling them & asking them to make an offer certainly might trip trademark issues, but responding to a legitimate inquiry shouldn't.
Most of the issues I've heard about were either typo-squatters, or people who had a parked site collecting revenue from people looking for the companies website.
I assume this person is talking about www.zerba.nl looking to purchase www.zerba.com?
--Note to self. Add witty sig here, someday...
When you sell it, put in a clause saying it can only be used for certain purposes for the next 5 years without your permission.
This way, if they sell it to a speculator or change their business to something other than their current business, you can demand more $$$ or regain control of the name.
Have some sliding scale for a buyout: If they sell it to a speculator today, they have to pay you $1M before putting the name to any other use, but nothing if they let the domain be paid-up but unused. If they do it in 5 years, $0, anything in between, on a pro-rata basis. If they are a legitimate, they shouldn't have a problem with this.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Unless you're making more doing what you're doing - which I seriously doubt!
Yes, I'm not kidding. In day and age of computers, it takes at least 6 weeks for a check to COMPLETELY clear. Don't believe me? Next time you get one of those unsolicited checks in the mail because you've been chosen as a secret shopper, won a contest that you've never entered, or whatever, deposit it and wait. You'll see.
The backing system likes it that way. It just pisses me off that when I pay a bill, they know down to the fucking second what I have in my account so that they can charge me fees, but when _I_ have a problem - "Oh no sir! It takes six to eight weeks to straighten this out! We have to 'investigate'."
OH! BTW!!! Do NOT send them ANY CASH! I don't care what their method!!! If they ask for a cash refund of ANY SORT - THEY ARE A CROOK - NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!
See how much they really want it. Offer to add a link to them on your site ("This is NOT Example, Inc. Their website is http://www.company.example/") or, if it you're not using it for web hosting, see if they'd be happy with a redirect. As a general idea, if you lose nothing, ask for nothing in return.
Then, you're not seeking money for their name, but you're also not denying them outright.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
If you wanted to be really evil and as much of a bastard as a typical domain squatter for some reason, then sure. But why? By doing what you've suggested, you also end up polluting Slashdot, CNN and Google with crap, which is no better than your average link spammer.
There are many domains which people own that they're not particularly attached to and would be happy to sell. For someone looking in from outside, it's reasonable to think that this might be one of them, particularly if it's not immediately clear that the person's using it. (Lack of a website would imply this to some people.)
All they've done so far is politely ask if they can buy it. The request was short on words but that looks more like translation issues rather than an angry demand to hand over from a corporation full of lawyers. It could just as easily be someone's small family business which thought it'd be useful to have .com on the end of their name. How else are they supposed to find out if the owner's interested in selling if not by asking?
Tell them you'll entertain offers. If they throw out a number, it can only go up. If you throw out a number, it can only go down.
Yeah dude, I think I smell wire fraud. He didn't even greet you by your name. Presumably, the guy should have done a whois. Smells like a nigerian scam.
It's a trap. You'll wind up without your domain OR any cash for it. Ask a lawyer.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
If it comes in unencrypted, anyone could have intercepted it anyway.
If it comes in encrypted, then no loss of privacy.
If a company is setting up a web presence and can't do reliable email, that would be unfortunate.
If he is able to change email addresses, the 'old' address may be a '.forward' only sort of mail for transition anyway.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
As others have noted, offering to sell your domain to them can be used as evidence of bad faith if there is other evidence you are cybersquatting. However, you can write them a letter and say you aren't really interested in selling the domain, what with the heavy email use you've been making with it for years, but if they request it you will put a link on the front page which says "Looking for Zerba the fashion designer? Click: www.zerba.nl" You could also offer to forward email to specific accounts to them if applicable -- in my case I have the dot-com for a name which some bloodsucking lawyer has the dot-net for, and people are forever sending me his mail. I have set up auto-forwards for all the accounts that seem popular at his office (so that I'm not accused of looking at private legal mail).
What you need to do is a background check on them. "Looks legitimate" is a pretty naive way of thinking.
If you were a car dealer or specialized repair shop, then it may have been reasonable for you to own a domain using several of their trademarks. That's certainly too broad a set of categories to be a likely hobbyist organization. Sounds like you were cybersquatting.
That's a different case from acquiring generic names (which can be rather dubious as well), and a much different case from what the main article was about, which is somebody who owns a domain that's based on his own name.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Changing your email can be a pain in the butt if you've been using it for a long time (how many services, sites and friends will you have to update?).
Although if the price is right, that could help ease the pain.
No sig here...
this happened to me about 3 years ago - I sold the domain (.com) to them for $23,000 through an escrow service and promptly registered the .us version. Turns out it was a company in Europe with a similar, though not exactly the same, name. I think they were trying to mitigate typo-squatting.
Tell the responder that everything has a price.
(I helped sell a domain for $5000 and one that started at $70 as the initial offer and the final offer was $500,000.00)
Keep it, but offer to lease DNS records to them. Basically, rent "www IN A ....." while keeping control of the domain itself.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Legal proceedings are expensive, lengthy, and not guaranteed. Thus a company would rather pay a reasonable sum to just get what they want, rather than have a fight. If you make them a reasonable offer, maybe a grand or two for your trouble, they'll likely accept.
The company my father used to work for went through this. They wanted a domain that a guy had. So they contacted him and offered him $10,000. They figured, as it was just a personal site, that he'd jump at it. It was an easy way to get what they wanted, and not a lot of money in the scheme of a company's operations. However, the guy decided that he wanted millions. Well, then they took him to court and won. However it probably cost them over $10,000 in legal fees.
So, if you respond with something like "Yes I'd be willing to sell my domain. However, there is going to be some inconvenience in dealing with a transition. So if you'd agree to $2000 to cover my expenses, I'd be happy to sell." I'd bet they go for it. That's not expensive to a company, and it makes everything real easy.
Get more information. Ask what their company does, who you are speaking with, etc.. I would negotiate from there.
If you can't spot the sucker in the first 5 minutes of playing,then you are the sucker.
Check out how long they've had the .nl name, and look at their web pages to see if they appear to be legitimately in business first. If they've had the name for a while and seem to be doing something real, they're probably safe to deal with. On the other hand, if they registered the name last week and are in the "domain name services" business, they're probably scammers and you shouldn't even reply.
(Your Slashdot article didn't have the domain name or your name in it, so I can't really tell.) Good luck!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I recently sold my domain to a french company that reached me in a similar way. I told them i had no interest in selling the domain as I use it for personal and business reasons. I told them if they wanted to buy my company, then to make a reasonable offer (but again I had no interest in selling the domain at this time).
They provided a very attractive offer and I did end up selling the domain. They simply redirect the .com to their french site. I got 6 months of email forwarding.
My experience was good, but that does not seem to be what people here are saying...
like the nigerian 409 scams or the mystery shopper scams, they pray on people's own greed
if someone thinks they will get paid for handing over the keys to their website, they will do it
all good con jobs work precisely by exploiting humankind's dependable behavior of acting stupid when tempted by greed
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
If you were to go through with it and sell the name to them (and certainly there are already posts debating the merits there), I would made sure that your alternate domain name would be available. It would be a shame if you wanted to get the .us variation on your name, and the company you sell your domain to also decides to buy it. It would also be a hassle if they asked you to sell them the .us variation three months down the road. It might be a reasonable part of a deal, to discuss the name you would use instead, so that they are clear on it.
Even if his name was Pinto or Ford, or Sasquatch, if he is legitimately using his domain - even for just email - then he is not squatting.
This happens all the time when a company is looking to increase it's brand name in some way. So say your name is Tesla and you have a hobby in model railroading and you have a url that is www.teslarr or www.teslarailroad or some such thing. A company starts up, making railroad cars, their name is Tesla and they want to buy your domain name - happens all the time.
For the OP, do some research and find out what others are selling (the real squatters) domain names for and that should give you a ball park.
The other thing to consider is licensing your domain name to them - i.e. you keep the domain name and let them use it. Of course that all hinges of you being able to show email usage for some time so that you aren't accused of fraud.
----- There my six cents worth (two cents adjusted for inflation and the price of crude)
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
You may be using it for email now, but who's to say whether you or any of your relations will develop some sort of product in the future that can be marketed via your .com address. It is, after all, your own name so you have sufficient right to hold the address without anyone accusing you of cyber squatting.
Similarly, there's a chance that the company will grow much larger in the future and their buy out offer will increase. Consider it an investment.
Simply add a redirect link at the top of the page. "Perhaps you were looking for company X? They can be found at [their URL]."
If you only use the email then
keep the MX record pointed on you server.
An the rent them the domain for there web server.
Julie Moult is an idiot.
Full story at the first link Google gives.
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
Lawyers do not get involved unless they are invited, but, there is always a lawyer who will take any stupid case that some idiot brings to their door.
IANAL, but if I were, I would think of some argument.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
......a dick.
Seriously. We all complain about the bullshit that surrounds us on a daily basis here at /. yet we see posts like the 1st one up. I am hoping he was being funny/sarcastic (as he was properly modded).
Try being the good guy, write them an HONEST email explaining your concerns, and ask them for a reasonable offer. You will always retain the right to reject (unless you foolishly give it away). So, what have you got to lose by being honest about things up front? IF, and I emphasize, IF, it ends up in a courtroom, you will have already scored some points in that you will be able to prove a good-faith effort to remedy the situation.
While I can agree with the "talk to a lawyer" suggestions, to some extent, I do feel that lawyers are sometimes wholly unnecessary and are merely a moneypit. Send the email, get a response, and then decide whether or not a lawyer is called for. And don't forget your gut. It talks to you. Listen.
The letter is very unbusinesslike. Its grammar is poor. It doesn't have the 'look and feel' of something legitimate. Most interestingly, the email conveys absolutely nothing to identify the potential purchaser.
If somebody doesn't have the time or ability to compose a good email, I would suspect that they wouldn't have the money to fund a substantial domain name purchase either.
If somebody isn't going to tell you (verifiably) who they are, why would you want to do business with them?
This smells bad.
So, if I own some property and the local government or developer want to buy it, I should just let them give me enough money to cover the mortgage?
I see many comments here advising the OP to do exactly this. Those comments are moronic and anti-freedom in every way. I'm shocked that anyone on Slashdot would give this advice.
The OP should decide how much money would be personally satisfying to let go of the domain. The owner should then do some research into the financials of the company. This person was approached for the possibility of completing a business transaction. It should be treated as such and due diligence should be performed before doing anything.
What about the possibility of leasing use of the domain name? Or maybe a stake in the business? The domain clearly has some value to the company, otherwise they wouldn't have come forward.
I think it's best to come up with your own figure before even looking at an offer. They have probably already established how much they are willing to pay.
The email message you gave from the potential buyer looks to me like it's not for real. I'd say ignore it.
They're the ones who want it. They're the ones with some value attached to it. Let them make an offer to you.
Turn it down. See what they offer next.
Why should you "negotiate against yourself" by setting the values, when you don't know how much they can afford for the value they will receive that they can't get anywhere else?
For that matter, why am I explaining this to you for free? Dammit.
--
make install -not war
Tell them that you want 10% of the ad revenue that the domain generates and they can have it for free! Tell them that is a one-time offer and if they refuse that tell them the asking price is at least one of your year's salary. I'd rather have the percentage though...that means a check every month instead of once.
Actually the style of the email and the grammatical errors are very Dinglish. (Dutch + English). Especially the closing and the way he signed his full (first initial last name). Most dutch people rarely include their full first name in correspondence, usually using only their first few initials. This is proper business etiquette. On the flip side, in the news, the first name last initial is commonly used to "anonymously" name suspected criminals who want to stay anon, for example Ali G.
Seeing as he comes from .nl - at least that part is legit.
I had the same thing happen to me a few years ago. You may be interested in asking for details about the company to verify that the request is valid.
In my case, I was contacted by the lawyer of the company, who arranged for the sale. I sold it for $5k, and I'm sure I could have asked for more (they accepted the offer immediately). A third party can hold the funds until the transfer is made, but in my case, they just sent the money and I was good enough not to steal it. :)
I don't think you can be approached on squatting charges. If you aren't attached to the domain and the request seems valid, ask for 10k and see what happens.
If you name a price and they have a legitimate claim (e.g. trademark etc. not even in this country) - especially if you aren't using the name for a valid purpose already - then you can easily lose through WIPO for domain-squatting. Even if they make you a ridiculously low-ball insulting offer and you counter you can lose your domain this way with no compensation at all.
.COM instead of theirs .NL. Tell them you're not interested and let them raise their offer until it does interest you - but never counteroffer back. Just go along your way until the right thing happens.
Your safest course of action is to continue to use the domain for a legitimate purpose that does not in any way attempt to make money off of anyone who types in your domain
Be aware that this person contacting you may also be a domain name broker who intends to buy low and sell high, cutting you out of all the profits for being a nice guy. You don't really know.
This whole domain name thing is fucked in the first place. It started as first-come-first-served and should have remained that way. But then big money got involved and changed the rules to suit themselves and screw out the little guy with more brains and foresight than the dinosaur companies had. Now it's highly tilted in their direction and you really have to toe the line on the rules or you'll end up with nothing!
And be exceptionally vigilant not to let your registration lapse for even 5 minutes. Expired domains are immediately snapped up and you may have to pay extortion to get it back again.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
You can email him at uzi@nissan.com. Oh wait, no you can't, because he lost nissan.com when he was accused of cybersquatting his own name.
Think about it from their perspective. They're probably worried they're missing out on a small number of customers who inadvertantly go to your site instead of theirs.
I would guess their lost revenue is low to very low, so don't get greedy. There are plenty of reasonable alternatives that could be worked out to make you both happy. Examples:
A priminent link on your website to theirs would be my favourite - sell it to them as 'advertising space' or donate it if they seem nice and you can't be bothered collecting a few dollars.
Offer to sell them a HTTP redirect service and keep the domain yourself.
Sell them the www subdomain but keep the MX pointing to you.
Sell them the domain and ask for an email alias.
Think of it as a normal business transaction between two individuals. Bargain in good faith and you're not opening yourself up to much legally. Try to charge something outrageous and you're likely to fall foul of the squatter rules.
You can sell the domain and also make a deal with them to have all your mail redirect to your new domain address. This will save you a lot of problems, and i bet they will accept this clause.
Heck, why not. Build a nice lease of the name for X years at a time (no less than 5) with it being revocable by either side every X years.
Simple, effective, and let's you take it back if you really want it.
People say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Why? Is there any shortage of bad ones?
Ask a lawyer. Duh. That said, as a not-lawyer, I'd say don't ask for money. Just say you're using it as your last name and changing addresses would be a real issue. Say you conduct business over the email address. You've then established that you actually want the address. Let them make an offer.
I'd reply with the following:
From: You
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 4:56 AM
To: Mr. N. de Robles
Subject: buy your trademark ?
Dear Mr. Robles,
For my personal use I need the trademark --- .
Is it possible for me to buy your trademark so I can have it tattooed on my arse?
Best Regards
You
This happened to me back in 1999. Actually, it happened to me a lot, but 1999 was when I finally won the domain name lottery.
I told him the same thing I tell everyone who asks: "Well, I'm not really looking to sell my domain name but feel free to make me an offer."
He said, "I'll give you $5000."
I said, "That's a reasonable offer, but I have both the .com and the .org and I'd want to sell them as a pair."
He said, "Okay, I'll give you $5000 each."
I said, "That's a very fair offer. I need to think about what it would take me to change my address and migrate everything off the name."
A week later he called and asked for my decision. I said, "You made me a very fair offer. I'm still thinking it through. Give me a little more time."
A few days later he called and asked for my decision. I said, "You made me a very fair offer. I'm still thinking it through. Give me a little more time."
He said, "Look, I need to move forward, have graphics made for my business and so on. If you'll decide now, I'll double my offer."
I said, "Give me one hour. I'll call you back in an hour."
An hour later I said, "$20k? Done."
Down payment on my house, right before the real estate market headed for the sky.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
"You can sell the domain and also make a deal with them to have all your mail redirect to your new domain address."
Ugh. So you're gonna have all your email routed through a mail server controlled by a third party in a different country? How does that sound like a good idea again?
Maybe the sender is:
- a person who does not have English as their first language, and/or
- a techie?
That would account for the rough grammar and the informality.
I mean, seriously, if an IT guy from .NL wrote it, would you really expect it to read like an American lawyer wrote it?
You're lucky it's not the other way round, you owning the .nl domain that a dutch company wants. I work at a company that wanted the .nl domain for their name and an individual had it registered. He didn't want to sell, but court decided it was ours and so now we have it... I think the other way around it will be a lot harder to force you to give up the domain...
There must be domain name appraisal services out there that can tell you the reasonable value of your domain. Then you have something to respond as in:
Such & such company values my domain at $XXX,XXX.
And be sure that the price includes a night or several with the model on their opening animation!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Get a lawyer, make an offer (after discussing fees with the lawyer), document everything.
That's the way its done.
Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
Personally, I would see a legitimate business use as more important than my personal email, but why not get both? Say you will sell it, if they continue to host your address for free. Very little cost to them, you can keep the address even just as a forwarder to your original. I did this before with a domain I bought in college. I thought it sounded really cool, and then a company with that name wanted it.
Yeah, all emails that start with a Dear Sir, seem to me like a Nigerian bank scam.
IANAL. This is not legal advice. You can't sell it without having an offer. Simply tell them you are using the domain because it is your personal, real name. Tell them you would entertain an offer directly from them for the domain, but it would have to be worthwhile due to the inconvenience of having to change everything. Make it clear that the name is not for sale to the public. This is clearly a case of private property and sidesteps the trademark issue.
Also, should they try to file suit in a court, have a lawyer tell you if you can stop the court action by going for Arbitration via ICANN. That is much better for you, less expensive, and often more fair for the current domain owner.
-- $G
Several years ago I registered a domain name for something I was trying which I was thinking about. Some guy, whose last name was the same as the domain I registered asked me if I'd be interested in selling it. Well, I needed the money so I quoted a reasonable offer. After the check cleared I did a change of the owner from me to him.
I took his personal check because he was in the U.S., the rules are very different when it's an international transaction. (I once paid for a shareware registration to a guy in Canada using a personal check drawn on a U.S. bank, I presume Canadian banks have no problem handling those; but I wouldn't accept anything but a guaranteed payment for an international transaction.)
Since the possibility of fraud is high when the buyer is outside the same country (on low value transactions where there's no money to chase them if you can't recover it), you make sure it's a guaranteed payment. I would suggest either wire transfer (and make sure the payment additionally includes your bank's incoming wire transfer fee) or Western Union for the same reason scammers use them: so the money is guaranteed and can't be revoked or a fraudulent transfer such as a forged check. Especially since the funds transfer is from a foreign country, it might cost you $30 or more to clear a check issued on a bank in some other country, presuming you don't get the check back in six or eight weeks as a forgery. If they want a written bill of sale or something, fine. But you get guaranteed payment before they get the domain.
Another option if the amount of the sale is not over the limit: set up a new, fresh account using Paypal or Google Checkout that goes to a new checking account at a bank (other than the one you do business with now) that will allow you to open one with no monthly fee (and check the paperwork they give you, sometimes they sneak fees in there), then, once the transfer clears, take all the money out except a token amount ($1) in cash, and then deposit the cash in your other account. Or close the account as you no longer need it.
This way, they can't undo the transaction and you've got the cash. Even if they try to reverse the transaction, the bank can't reverse it because you didn't use paper; if you took a bank check from them they could reverse the payment to your bank. Also you don't want to use the same bank as your own because they can use set off if the other side tries to renege on the transaction.
In fact, if they are going to use wire transfer, use a new account because I suspect the information needed for an incoming wire is the same as could be used for an outgoing one, and they might be able to siphon money out of your account. Or check with your bank to find out how to have a wire transfer that doesn't allow them to extract money from you, but I think wire transfers are ridiculous because of the fact that your bank charges you for the incoming transfer as well.
Automatic red flag: if they offer you more and want you to arrange something to send them money back. 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% of the time it's a scam for them to rip someone else off and leave you on the hook to make the person they stole from whole, since they can't be found, but you can.
I just went and looked it up for an example transaction, a Western Union transfer of $1,000 from Netherlands to the U.S. is about 711 Euros and costs around 41 Euros for the transaction, probably less than it would cost them for both ends of a wire transfer. If you're charging less than $1000 for the domain, the transfer fee to them will probably be less.
If you do these things and the transaction goes through, it hasn't cost you anything but a little time and you've protected yourself.
Otherwise it's no different from selling anything you own to someone else. A domain name has a registered owner, you transfer the registration to someone else, they own it. Most personal property doesn't have registered owners, if you sell something they just t
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.
This looks like a spam. If they don't even mention the domain name, they're probably not very serious about it.
I get those all the time, especially from my "downside.com" domain.
Well, just check out the nissan.com story...
However, it took over six months to get the actual domain transferred because of the idiocy of my registrar (Network Solutions, I'm looking at you). Figure in some money for your time involvement.
That is all.
If the domain is yourlastname.com then you have a legitimate claim on the domain and should not be concerned about trademark infringement or being accused of domain squatting. Check over at estibot.com and see what the potential value is. lastname.com,s are a fairly rare commodity and can command offers in the xx,xxx dollar range. If you do decide to sell, consider using a marketplace like sedo.com to make sure that you are protected in the transaction.
...rent it to them.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
... you're all comparing this to billions.com companies and massive (mainly US) legal cases involving domains.
best practice/due diligence is probably to follow what others have advised but a bit of perspective is probably needed.
look at zerba.nl...
I wouldn't say its the most impressive of ecommerce sites, built on a budget at most.
Look at the pics in the site too... it seems more of a high street boutique than a multi-national with lawyers coming out of its ears.
If it was me, I'd offer it at pittance. Or free if they paid me for site build ;-)
Sell it if you don't mind but get some more proof they are legit. I'm not sure why a scammer would want it. I don't see the URL in your post so I don't know if it has some sort of value even if you don't have a popular website.
At least entertaining their offer is better than being sued for the URL.
Used to belong to a friend of mine whose last name is Smart. He didn't know who he sold it to until after the deal was done, and he might have gotten 10x what he sold it for if he had held out.
We've had several apparently legitimate offers for my wife's domain, which is her first name. One was a soccer team in Paraguay, and the other was a travel agency in Italy. In both cases a bit of Googling showed the name (with my wife's unusual spelling) was in use by the companies who contacted us. (The Paraguayan offer included free tickets to their games, which was a bit inconvenient for us :-)
If we had the .org version, I would have been more interested in selling the .com version, but unfortunately all the other TLDs were taken by presumably squatters.
Finally, my cousin has a business that uses his last name plus some other stuff. Apparently he let that particular domain expire, so I snarfed it up to give it (back) to him at Christmas.
So not all 'squatters' are evil, and some people looking to take a family name are legitimate. Unfortunately, it's hard to figure out how to do an international fair transfer for property like this that protects both side of the deal from the other.
dave
The only reason he asked this question to /., must be because he is dutch (i bet). We never miss an opportunity to make a buck!
(Yes, I am dutch)
trans corpus mortuum
Years ago I had the same type of request. I promptly put the domain name for sale for $1,200 on eBay, then replied to the letter with a link to my auction. They bought it the next day.
Good luck!
Simple answer? If it doesn't mean that much to you then sell it to them for a reasonable price and don't be a dick about it. Remember this isn't the lottery.
I had a similar situation with a domain. The suitor ended up paying me a small sum (very small) and even paying for my new domain. His business was happy and I was happy.
Also, forget the stupid suggestion to keep your email address for two reasons. One, what is to keep the buyer from copying all your email before forwarding it? Two, it's a legal liability to the buyer to agree and you're a putz to even ask.
It be a zerba???
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
In his position, I'd try to get them to make the offer - respond with a "what did you have in mind?" email - trying to make sure that they aren't a porno outfit or other "bad" use of his family name.
If the offer is reasonable and fits with his plans, then go for it - simple.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
One the flip side, if megacorp A wants the domain, they might want it to look personal and unprofessional in order to lowball you. Consider what dollar amount you'd have in mind if a multimillionaire CEO was asking to buy this versus some random shop owner.
It's like the old adage of not going to buy a new car dressed in expensive clothing.
It doesn't seem that poorly written for a CEO/business owner with a less than perfect sense of English.
Do the due diligence; respectful response, solicit an offer from them, make no promises or representations. If you've been using this domain for a while now in good faith you're probably under no obligation to deliver the domain. Remember the mtv.com/Adam Curry fiasco? In the end, they made it worth his while rather than keep coming back with bigger lawyers, and they sent some pretty big lawywers in the beginning.
My former employer sold a few interesting domains for fair money, and had one bully try to slam him over another. Our lawyer prevailed, thankfully before he got disbarred, but that's another an unrelated story...
Sell it for real money if you can. After all, let them finance your new mail server, hosting costs for the next 5 years or so, and a nice stipend to play with. For a serious business, it's either worth it or not. And no, I cannot tell you how much is enough, but it's more than a kind person would ask for, and less than most /.'rs would hope.
ps- if you're not married yet, the ring shoudl be covered too, if not the whole party...
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
If the domain were just his name, none of this would matter. But the fact that the company's name matches the domain makes it a potential trademark dispute, so you must be mindful of ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy. It explicitly lists several types of "bad faith" registrations, and the first one is acquiring a domain primarily for the purposes of selling it. If you throw out a number, that can be interpreted as evidence of intent to sell, and thus bad faith and grounds for losing your domain.
Instead, get them to make an offer first. Something like, "I hadn't really thought about selling it, but my bills have been getting kind of high recently. How much were you thinking?" Although the most bulletproof is, "Sorry, not interested" and hope they make an offer.
Go to Moniker's domain auction site for some ballpark figures of how much domains similar to yours are selling for.
selling attempt going on here? What if the OP is some troll gaming for attention? Or, an out-of-work guy looking for a year or two of income?
I mean, what if the OP *thinks* s/he has a salable name, is trying to perk up the attention of a IP/trademark lawyer or admin of the same-named or similarly-named company s/he HOPES will jump to buy the domain?
Not EVERY thing is what it SEEMS...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I used bunker.com for email from 1994 until last year. Then I got such an unsolicited email offer. I decided to reply and see what the offer was. Well, after successful use of escrow.com I am 10,000 euros richer! I say found money is great money, but do recommend the escrow path.
http://xkcd.com/374/
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You should solidify your ownership of the domain immediately, and consider specifics about offers, etc. later.
I had an interesting challenge to my ownership of the Chaco.com domain. We were using it legitimately to host material on Chaco Canyon, as well as hosting our MUD client (formerly owned by our company Chaco Communications). And yet, we were challenged by Chaco Sandals. The challenge was close; we almost lost the domain, just because we were a little sloppy.
The details are here:
http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/791739.htm
Based on my experience, I would suggest that you get all the domain ownership issues in a solid form: Use your own name, make sure the addresses are correct and usable, don't use a "privacy filter" like GoDaddy sells to hide your identity.
Good luck.
It's not reasonable to expect to be able to keep the email address.
However they could set up a forwarder for a period of time which will allow you to notice and update any mailing lists etc you may have forgotten and then an automatic responder for an additional period to catch people who still haven't managed to update your email address and tell them your new one.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Not to malign Annie Lennox/Eurythmics, but tell them, "Hey, Mizza mizza mizza... Gizza gizza gizza me a milla milla dollaz plizza... Let's go Dutch, and make it Double-Dutch-Good, our you can take the Double-Dutch Bus." And, give them the lyrics URL to the Frankie Smith song:
"Double-Dutch Bus"
http://www.lyricsdownload.com/frankie-smith-double-dutch-bus-lyrics.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Dutch_Bus
Then, throw in some appropriate lyrics from Annie, like "Sweet Dreams"...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Did you even read the link? He never lost the domain. For a while, he was enjoined from certain activities, although from looking at his site, even that was turned over on appeal.
I am glad for the reminder, though. Screw Nissan.
Don't sell them your domain. Sell them re-direct services on a monthly basis. For X a month you will gladly rent them your DNS.
-- botsex is {grep;touch;strip;unzip;head;mount}
Figure out a fair price and take the money. Or negotiate an up front sum and a 3% annual fee for their use.
what a load of crap, in europe SRPS 0,5 EUR, or paypal, both cost almost nothing to collect; us banks and wu are rip-offs
It has been six months, probably longer, that I have seen "LOSE" spelled correctly on the web, in a forum or in a news feed.
Thank you, thank you!!
"I'm using it for business, it does not violate your trademark, therefore go away" ?
I hate changing email addresses. It's the fastest way to dump 30+ contacts you forgot about but will probably need to reach someday.
Does this company sell/make/do anything that might be of value to you? Barter makes the world go round.
If you hesitate, our government might start allowing people to confiscate your .com for their own use, just as they are illegally doing with private property to get tax returns from developers.
I've seen in one case where a .cn name was used, it was all nice and all, saying they had to get our permission. But it really was a ploy to try to get us to register the .cn at inflated prices... On the other hand, there was no existing site in the .cn at the time, so I'll admit it's not an identical situation to the article.
It's quite likely a legitimate offer.
I sold my domain name last year for $10,000.00
I was surprised at the offer, thought it was a hoax, did an escrow service, and it went without a hitch.
The name is still just parked.
I don't care if I could have gotten more for it.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The company I work for just got $15k for a domain in a very similar scenario. The domain was for an obscure division that was probably going to go away eventually anyway. But, they managed to convince the company (and this was partially true) that they had to redevelop all their marketing materials, website, business cards etc. Then they just ran out and bought our local country domain and made some changes on the mail server. Presto! Back in business, a few contacts to notify, but not that many.
Think about it: the guy who sent the request seems to have an exact matching domain on a different country code, and a legitimate business seems to be in operation on said domain. Seems like an awful lot of work for a scammer to go to.
And they haven't accused our intrepid writer of squatting either. I can't believe all the "marshall the lawyers!" crap coming out here.
Wait, I take that last part back.
One thing I've seen is that this guy (check his FAQ for this domain) won't sell his, but will lease it for a nominal very large fee. I think this is what keeps him from running afoul of any anti-squatting regulation, and still allows him to offer his services for a fee.
This sig no verb.
Why not submit your questions to the pros?
There is nothing wrong with selling a domain name. If you are selling it strictly for profit (such as domain squatting) you are part of the reason the net is full of scammers; if you purchased it without the intent of making money and it has suddenly become valuable it's just good fortune. Consider what is the domain worth to you, what will it mean for them; negotiate a price that satisfies both of your agenda. If you cannot agree upon a price then just hold on to the name.
First - ignore it. If they're really interested and legitimate, they'll ask again, more than likely with a number attached.
If they contact you a second time (and they will if there's a CEO prodding an underling to get the name), tell them that you are not interested, as you currently are using the domain for (insert several uses here) and after (length of time you've owed it) of regular use, the effort to switch to another name would be a significant burden.
Rinse and repeat until either the number they throw at you is large enough to cover your legal bills for escrow, transfer agreements and execution (I would budget $5-10k) and clear enough to really make a difference in your finances. That might be $10k or $100k or more depending on your situation. If they don't come back, then you get to keep your domain.
If you get close to an agreement, I would seriously consider leasing the domain name as suggested above instead of selling, if you can't give up your email address. Put a 10 year lease on it with an option to purchase at the end. You can then get - and transfer - all your stuff over to a .us (or other) domain during that time, while requiring through the lease deal that they use forwarding to keep your emails coming at least during the lease period. Having had my domain for a decade, and having missed my .com by 3 months, I would opt for the lease or nothing short of $100k.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Another thing that should likely be considered here is how long this company has been in business. If it is a new company started long after your domain registration, you're probably a little safer from a legal front. This removes the possibility that you bought the domain (which I assume is rather obscure) with the intent of selling it to them at a later date. Since they didn't exist, this couldn't have been the case.
instead of selling them the domain make them rent the domain from you. Ask them for a yearly charge and you will redirect the .com domain to their site. That way you keep control of your e-mail and they will get any visitors that type in .com.
I also own the .com version of my name. In my case my last name is the name of a company that does about $100 million a year and has had a trademark on my name and a few versions of it for over a 100 years.
I can tell you for a fact that companies that are serious about getting your domain name do not send you a polite email asking to buy it. They have their agent or lawyer send a registered letter and follow up with a phone call.
Most likely the guy who contacted you won't pay you enough to make it worth the hassle of changing your email address. But, speaking as someone who has turned down offers ranging from a couple of shirts (no, I am not making that up, they were very nice wool shirts...) to $20,000 for my domain name and as someone who has been threatened with being sued over my ownership and use of the domain name 6 times over the last 12 years here are a few things to think about.
1) It is your name. (The web cred for being first-name @ last-name . com is incredible.)
2) It will only become more valuable with time.
3) Don't fall into the nice guy trap. You are not doing this guy a favor, he doesn't give a shit about you. This is no different than if someone walked up and offered to buy your truck. (That has happened to me too.) You have something he wants, but you want it too. You do not have to share.
4) Research the company. What does D&B say about them? How much can they afford to spend? How much is the domain really worth to them?
5) Never never never tell them what you will sell it for. No matter what price you mention they will make a lower counter offer and will never (well... almost never) pay what you ask. More importantly, they will pay *no more* than what they *think* it is worth to them. If you quote a price that price will be the maximum they will pay. If they quote the first price that price will be the minimum they will pay.
6) If the sale is contingent on your getting a .us domain then make sure you have that domain before you finish the deal. My dear friends went out and grabbed all the names I might want as an alternate domain just so they could use them as bargaining chips.
7) If they make an offer get a lawyer. Do not reply to an offer until you have a lawyer. BTW, a *good* intellectual property lawyer is not cheap The first one I tried to talk to wanted a $30,000 retainer. So, I had to go with a not very good lawyer... BTW, you should note that the cost of a *good* lawyer started out $10,000 higher than anyone ever offered for the name.
My best advice is to send back a polite email asking what he is offering. When the reply turns out to be less than $100 you can laugh, tell the guy to blow you, and at least know you had the fun of getting a personal question posted on /.
Oh yeah... in the end I still own the name and I am in the hole a few thousand for legal bills. I am pretty happy about that. They could have sued (even though they would have lost) and bankrupted me with the legal fees of winning the suit.
Stonewolf
... a registered trademark trumps natural-born name use. For example, William H. Macy could not have a department store chain named "Macy's" or "William H. Macy's". Both would violate Macy's trademark.
paintball
His company name and domain was his last name. When the company was bought and rebranded by a big corporation to expand their outlets, he had repeated requests to sell the domain to another family business with the same last name. I advised him to sell. He thought about it for several years, and finally forgot to renew - so the other company got it cheap. I suppose that was fitting in a way.
I own my name as a domain name. It does not cost much. I like the convenience. It is kinda fun when I have to give out my e-mail address. Easy to remember.
Definitely not worth selling.
Do you know what his company is doing?
could be some kinky xxx stuff.
All your friends, colleagues family know your domain...and then the emails coming in hehehe
Hope you get a bucketfull of money, worth all that explaining you have to do
I've sold three domains I was legitimately using and made a pretty nice wad of cash.
I registered a domain name about 6 years ago with the intent of starting a company that offered a service pertinent to the domain. It was a mashup of two words that I created myself. About 3 months after registering it I got an email from someone in Israel asking me if I would consider selling it. My response was along the lines of, "No, I hadn't considered selling it but so that I can compare with what I had planned to do with it, could you let me know your offer?" He came back and said $1,000. That is not a lot of money, but I had a pipeline of about 20 other web projects in front of the one I was considering for this domain so I took it.
We did an escrow.com jobby and everything worked flawlessly.
I'm a big tall mofo.
I had an offer for a domain a few years ago. I immediately considered the notion that if I responded too positively, initially, they could take one or both of two routes: 1. stick with their low initial offer, or 2. initiate a legal action to get the name under the concept that I was just domain squatting. So my response was simply to indicate that I had a substantial investment in the domain, including a few thousand email addresses (a couple hundred of which I or others used, and the rest being spamtraps used to detect where spammers were operating so I could refuse email from those places). They set up a phone conference and tripled the offer. I eventually got it doubled from that, and had this all done through a bank escrow account.
Be very careful with this, especially with a company that has the same name. I might suggest getting them to send you a letter acknowledging your equal right to, and prior possession of, the domain name. But by all means be sure you arrange an escrow account at your bank and be sure your bank understands (in writing) that they are to acknowledge to you that the money is present in a way that cannot be reversed except under the terms of the escrow, which should be limited to you failing to transfer the domain.
As for negotiating a price, keep in mind that no one really gives their best offer up front.
You might be tempted to ask them to commit to forwarding your email to you for one or a few email addresses. Just don't bother with this. Ask for a price that covers your costs and hassles of changing now. Once the transaction is done, they could violate the terms and just shut it off, knowing it would be too hard for you to deal with it via international law (the costs likely to be greater than you get for the domain). Even if you win, they would just say the admin screwed up and they will fix it. This is just not worth it. So think of this deal as including the sale of all your email addresses (and ask for an inflated price for that).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
I guess that's cats, not dogs, but whatever...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
http://www.nissan.com/
The other side of this story.
Offer to lease use of the domain to them for a number of years.
Is slashdot your private eight ball?
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
So, I go look up MYDOMAIN.com - totally unregistered. Can't sell what you don't own, try again jackass (yes, that's basically what I sent him).
I got an offer on a domain purchase much like this years ago (terabytesoftware.com). Like this situation they owned one with an almost identical name (terabyte-software.com). A few things were funny about it. First, nothing was on their site. The other funny thing was when we agreed on terms, they couldn't seem to come up with a way to transfer the funds that didn't involve me providing my checking account number and routing number. I'm not saying thats the case here, but it sound really familiar.
One time I told a coworker that people should have their pets cryogenically frozen instead of sent to a pet boarding facility, or have a boarding facility that just freezes the pets, to keep them in perfect condition ofcourse.
The next day I checked my email, which I do about twice a month, and in my Junk Mail was an email suggesting exactly that. Normal-like spammer gobblygook, except it talked about cryogenically freezing pets when you go on vacation.
A) The government is reading my mind.
B) I'm on the Truman Show.
or C) Spam is highly coincidental sometimes.
I sold one for 10k, just get the money first.
Negotiating 101: ask *them* to make them to make the first offer.
Nothing would make you feel sillier than offering it to them for $2000 and having them snap it up without batting an eye....
Personally, I would be more inclined to keep the domain and ignore the email. The bottom line is you got an unsolicited message from from some schmoe who provided you with very few details - It looks like a bulk email to me and smells strongly of a scam.
Here take a look at this. It could be this scam adapted to domain names. If you REALLY want to take a chance on this guy, get the money wired or make damn sure anything he sends you clears before you lift a finger. This is particularly true if the numbers he's talking are too-good-to-be-true amounts.
-R
They offered $5000. He responded that he wanted $300,000 for his domain name. They said no thanks . . . 4 months go by.
The offer $15,000. He responded that he wanted $300,000 . . . 6 months go by.
The new CFO calls up and offers to rent it for 2 years for $20,000, and an option to buy for $200,000 at the end of the 2 years.
Moral is: If the company is growing waiting is better for you. Go drive some traffic to your site and wait.
+1 on escrow.com
I sold a domain 2 years ago using escrow.com and everything went smooth as silk. To this day I do not know who the buyer was, but his agent handled a few details, and the money was wire transfered - ba da bing.
This was a domain I registered back in 1992 and I got an ridiculous amount for it. But if I knew then what I know now ... Sigh. I could have had sex.com, auto.com, business.com, etc.com. Sigh. Back to working on the perpetual motion machine.
The person asking does not appear to be a large business. A large business would have had an attorney contact you who has done business with US customers, have a better grasp of English and have an agent in the US who can sign papers and accept funds.
If it's a lot of money it's best if find a savvy business attorney who knows how to handle everything for you. Yes it's expensive but it is worth it in the long run. You can make the buyer pay your attorney's fees.
I don't know what the going rate is for a domain nor do I know the amount of money involved.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I went through this myself. Ended up selling the domain for lots of money. First thing to beware of is this: If it's a valuable domain a big company can "sue you to death" cheaper than they can buy it. So be reasonable. There are exceptions. With my domain I knew that they were going public and they needed the .com NOW. So I didn't worry about that because I knew they couldn't allow it to be tied up in court. Google them, see what they're up to. You might have some leverage.
Second thing to beware of: Offering to sell it to them can be construed as you trying to make a profit off of someone else's work/trademark/etc. This might not be true, but see #1 above. Better to say "everything is for sale, make an offer."
You can always make the sale conditional on them maintaining a forwarding of your email address. It's trivial. I'd still migrate away from it, but that relieves you of any hurry.
One more thing. If they owned the trademark BEFORE you owned the domain name, they have a good case to just take it from you. If they are trying to buy it they might not know that.
Good luck.
The sender of the email is just being Dutch. Things that sound perfectly normal to us Dutch are actually impolite to most of the rest of the world. As to verifiable identity, the email did carry an actual name + email address. How much more identity do you want from a first email?
That way, you:
I think that this might be a bit of a win-win situation.
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
At a certain point, when you realize the guy isn't squatting, you cut him a check for $250K and you're done with it.
Nissan has spent more than that on lawyer's fees and are further from their goal. If I was on the board of directors, I'd ask to have the guy pushing this fired. Not because of the money, but because of poor judgment. If you can't use common sense in obvious things, you probably can't suddenly turn it on for complex issues.
Really, fire the guy at Nissan Motors who keeps pushing this lawsuit, and then pay the guy a few bucks for the domain.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Sure someday it might be used for something significant, but I just registered it as an amusing pun when .us became available (and no, it was not del.icio.us, but it was an English word ending in us).
I'd been paying the registration fees on it for a few years but had never used it as more than a testing page. Someone else was interested and asked politely, I sat on it for a while but when the registration was coming due I decided it wasn't worth the $8 bucks to me to hang on to it so I transferred it over to him.
fencepost
just a little off
I doubt you do much international business. I do, and my company is *constantly* contacted by new sales/supply leads that consist of very little information and poorly composed English. More often than not, it's the language barrier that causes the messages to be short and sweet. If the sender struggles with English, it makes sense for them to see if the recipient is even interested in their offer before trying to write a more complicated message.
Granted, it's always nice to receive a well-formatted & grammatically correct inquiry, but to disregard it entirely for not meeting those requirements is a bit myopic - especially since the sender already legitimately owns the same domain name on .NL TLD. It's not unreasonable to consider that English probably isn't their primary language and they might have even had to use an online translator just for that short message.
They are soliciting you to make an offer - tell them no, tell them to offer a specific amount.
In fact, given your situation, I'd immediately list your domain at a site that handles domain transactions. I can recommend sedo.com from past experience.
The letter is very unbusinesslike. Its grammar is poor. It doesn't have the 'look and feel' of something legitimate. Most interestingly, the email conveys absolutely nothing to identify the potential purchaser. If somebody doesn't have the time or ability to compose a good email, I would suspect that they wouldn't have the money to fund a substantial domain name purchase either. If somebody isn't going to tell you (verifiably) who they are, why would you want to do business with them? This smells bad.
The probability of an ungrammatical message originating from an illegitimate source is higher than the probability of an ungrammatical message originating from a legitimate source, but it *is* possible, and you would be surprised to see how ungrammatical some emails originating by some very rich business leaders of multinational corporations can be or how "cluttered" and "disorganised" their offices are. Of course, "cluttered" and "disorganised" are personal opinions, as these people are usually capable of finding anything they need in their "cluttered" offices.
Bear in mind that many times businesspersons suffer from headaches and sleep debt as they are too busy and have a life full of problems and activity.
Don't sell your name to him!!
I have always wanted this domain name, and am willing to pay MANY DOLLARS for it!
Please just send me your name and address, and I will send you a cheque for US$5000!
I want your domain-name desperately!
Just email your postal address to
mailto:PrinceBonobo@hootmail.com
or write me:
His highness, Prince Bonobo,
Box 419, Central P.O.,
Tinubu Square,
Lagos, Nigeria
I guarantee you many great rewards!
per my North American solicitor-
- Aaron A. -
Bringing Pinoqachole to the natives since 1643.
Is that one e-mail all the correspondence you have?
Why are you assuming that this is real? I had an offer for my website a while ago, and I replied, but got no further response.
It became clear to me that it was simply spam, probably sent to the "contact@" address of thousands of sites. By replying, I simply confirmed the e-mail address, and made it slightly more valuable for spam.
Tell them you'll redirect web traffic to their website for a monthly fee.
Nothing beats recurring income.
If the offer is reasonable and you have no great attachment to it, by all means sell it. There is precedent (with WIPO) for keeping the domain name if you have not attempted to profit from the other company's customers' mistaking you from them. The problem arises if they decide to take you to court--it gets very expensive very quickly. Also, the domain is likely not worth as much as what some people here are recommending and a small company might not be able to afford a lot. I've gone through the process with WIPO (I won) and the US courts (I couldn't afford to win). It sucks and is soul-sapping. Bottom line...sell it with an agreement (have it draughted by a lawyer and have the agreement state that the court that has jurisdiction is in your locale) that they won't challenge your registration of the .us (or whatever) domain and that even if the negotiations fail that the company will not use that correspondance as evidence of bad faith or cybersquatting. I would also make sure that the lawyer can hold the domain until the cheque clears.
To lose a domain you have to be using it in bad faith. You're not as far as is shown here.
So don't worry about it.
(Bad faith would be using it in a way detrimental to them, directly)
Keep in mind tradmark law is for a specifict class of goods or service in a specific geographic area. The world keeps on going even though "Delta" is a trademark of an airline and a company that makes faucets.
Need Mercedes parts ?
The sender would appear to be from the Netherlands - English is likely not his/her first language. And in the sender's native language, the note probably sounded just fine.
As well, business people, especially entrepreneurs, those starting and running their own business, are incredibly busy. They don't have time to compose lengthy missives when a short note will do. I've seen them initiate large, succesful deals with emails just as curt as the above.
Until you find out how much they are willing to offer. Just tell them "there is no set price, but you're open to offers."
I've received inquiries like this all the time for some domains I own. The typical offer is about $100.
Foreign entities that happen to match your name (unless your name is Coke or Nike) are unlikely to be multinational fortune 500 companies.
It never hurts to ask for offers, but in all likelihood, you're not going to get rich, nor is it even going to be worth the technical trouble involved in a transition.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I would hesitate to sell it to them unless you want your friends and acquaintances to end up at a porn site when they were browsing for your home page. I have refused to sell my domain to people in the Netherlands multiple times. I ask them what they want to use it for, and tell them my concern, and I never hear from them again.
...when you can't even call someone a dumbshit without getting modded flamebait?
Although seriously, I totally agree with your post.
Nick
If you email or write to them about this matter, make sure you head your email or letter with "Without Prejudice". That indicates that anything you say in the email is just "chat" and should not be taken to be any form of offer, admission of liability, or agreement with anything they may have said previously, etc. It can't be used as evidence in a court hearing where they're claiming you've admitted or agreed to something that you never intended to.
"Without prejudice" is the correct wording within the UK and Australian legal systems, you may need to word it differently for other jurisdictions - i don't know. It's also just possible there's no such concept in some legal systems.
Lady Claire Macdonald runs the family home, Kinloch Lodge, as a hotel.
I suspect that a Scottish court might see Lord Macdonald, Godfrey Macdonald of Macdonald, High Chief of Clan Donald, or his wife, of having a stronger claim to the use of the name at least in Scotland than some interloper from the USA.
There is also a Macdonalds Restaurant & Guest House in Pitlochry. If I was visiting the area I might go there just to be able to say that I had at last found a Macdonalds Restaurant where the food was edible.
Twelve years ago, I didn't think I needed the ".com" domain for my company. I just registered the ".nl". Stupid mistake.
I'd really love to be able to take over the ".com" domain from the guys that have it now.
On the other side, when I had a domain someone wanted, I wouldn't be too harsh on them. However, you're calling the shots: So I would demand that they leave your Email address in place. Or you can offer them that they specify what they need of the domain (web, certain EMail addreses) and then offer them to provide those.
Roger.
P.S. Guessing which domain is even easier than with the poster....
Offer them to give it to them if they donate n amount of money to a charity (or one of your choice) and they must also forward your email for 1/2 year. The charity will profit from it. The company can write it off as a charity and get good promotion for it. And you can have that nice warm feeling inside.
Concerning all these comments about lawsuits, consider this: the company is Dutch based, not US, and the Netherlands does not have the lawsuit culture of the US at all.... So quite probably this is just what it appears to be: a polite inquiry whether they can buy the domain name, for business reasons. No darker motives. The text being short? That's how we Dutch communicate. We tend to be direct.
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
When my employer got on the 'net, we discovered that another guy had registered xxxx.com as a vanity domain barely a month before us. This was pretty much before the day of the domain squatter, so I sent the guy a nice letter. Introduced our company, sent him glossies and stuff, told him what we do. I didn't offer to buy the name from him (remember, it was when the domain name system was a gentleman's game), but I did offer to reprint his business cards and stationery, cover any expenses he had.
Guess he could have taken us to the cleaners, but he was a nice guy - he declined to take anything for xxxx.com and just signed it over, taking xxxx.org instead. For years afterward I sent him every new piece of schwag our marketing people produced that had our (and his) name on it. Oh, and I also maintained several email accounts for him and his family, and forwarded mail to his new system.
Cutting a deal doesn't always mean someone has to be screwed over.
Zerba.nl is the website for a fancy shoe store. His website looks horrible, but that happens if people who know nothing about webbuilding get to make decisions about websites.
I checked the dutch trade registry, as far as I can tell, it's a single-store chain.
The message he sents is typical of a large portion of the dutch. Simple and to the point, with a decent but not great use of the english language. He probably thinks he sent you a perfect english request, but to be honest, most of us dutchies can't write a lengthy english text without screwing up and sounding like a moron.
Unless those dutchies are slashdotters, of course.
Anyway, here's what I found.
The shop is in the hague, on a reasonably expensive shopping street in the old part of town. (Which is the town center.) The correspondence adress is the same as the store, and the store employs two fulltimers.
So, you are dealing with a small shoe store here. That explains the form of the message, and I think that the message is legit.
Do with it as you please.
As I in my profession trade and broker domain names, I hope that I can help you out with this question. There have been many good replies to the original question, such as the fact that the risk of running into legal problems by responding to the email is next to zero. As the domain has your last name and you have not plastered it with ads for similar products as the company wanting buy the domain from you, there is no risk for being judged as using the domain in bad faith. When it comes to which price level you should set you can get some input on domain sales overall from the sales lists at dnjournal.com. Of course, the highest sales are recorded there, but it gives you an insight on what the most valuable names are and what people are ready to pay for quality domain names. Once you have agreed on a price I would strongly advise you to use an escrow service to make sure that you get your money. If you would like more info feel free to post your questions here or to martin at namedrive dot com.
It's been some time since I've followed WIPO domain-name issues...
...but I think I still know the most important rules.
The deck is stacked against you. But, you can still "win" (trade your domain for some money) if you know the rules.
The most important two rules are:
(1) Be prepared to document your legitimate uses of the site.
Since you've already been contacted, it won't help you now to put a bunch of "real content" up at the site's web address. But it sounds like you've been using it for email for some time now. You may want to search mailing list archives online to find old examples of your sending legitimate emails using the domain. If any are for vaguely-business purposes, so much the better.
I don't imagine you'll need notarized statements from friends and relatives confirming that you've been emailing them from this domain for X period of time. But if this goes to a UDRP action, you may want to get them anyway!
You're already on pretty good ground here if the domain really is just your last name. But it still doesn't hurt to have documentation ready.
(2) Don't make careless offers; know what "bad faith" is.
The other company approaching you is great. You don't have to do anything, they're the ones putting themselves out there.
But if you write back and say "I'll take a million dollars for it," or "how about a hundred dollars," you're putting yourself at a little risk. The risk in both cases is that now WIPO will treat you as attempting to profit from the domain. The specific risk of making an outrageously high offer is that you can be treated as not bargaining in good faith; the specific risk of making a lowball offer is that they may accept it and you'll (in the end) have to give it up for that.
Be very cagy about even beginning the bargaining process. Instead of naming a price, or even stating your serious intent to sell, you might begin with
"I wasn't planning on selling it, so I didn't have a price in mind. I'm using it and it would be inconvenient to give it up. But if you're really interested, make me an offer."
This establishes from the beginning that your purpose in originally acquiring the domain was not to profit by reselling it. In particular, not to profit by reselling it to someone who holds a trademark on the domain name -- that will definitely get it taken away from you on grounds of "bad faith." You further establish this by not stating a price, which could also be taken as evidence of bad faith.
If you get an offer that you're willing to accept, get them to send it in writing, not email, of course. Depending on how much money it is, it may be worth a trademark lawyer's fee to either draw up a quick contract or confirm that their offer is something you'd be willing to sign. (And do find a lawyer who knows something about trademark.)
If you get an offer that you're not willing to accept, do not make a counteroffer with a specific price. Don't even say you'd sell it for a higher amount. Say rather something like,
"I'm not interested in selling the domain at that price. If you'd like to make another offer, I'd be willing to consider it."
Until you have their signature on paper, your primary goal is not to do or say anything that could be taken as evidence that you have either registered or used the domain in bad faith, because that will let them simply take it away from you and you'll get nothing. And if they hold a trademark on your name, your asking for money is evidence of bad faith.
If you think you're able to bargain while following those rules, then first go read about the UDRP and get the real, formal definitions of the rules instead of my paraphrases. I'll let you google it; also, google on [udrp site:slashdot.org] for examples of how the deck has been stacked against individuals like yourself since 1999. Good luck.
I told them the following...
That I was willing to relinquish this domain as I was pretty much just using it for personal stuff.
And that I wasn't looking to rip anyone off, but would need some compensation for my having to migrate everything along with the loss of links to that domain, and any work entailed.
And told them to make what they believed to be a fair offer. They offered $500 and as I was pretty much retiring the domain for the most part. I felt it was fair and charging much more would be dishonest. So I accepted.
I've received unsolicited offers for a domain of my own, and I handled it thusly: I asked the potential buyer to get a domain name appraisal done by an independent organization that does that sort of thing and share the result with me. They never called back, so I suppose they were dismayed by the number. I wasn't very keen to sell, so I reckon it worked out well enough.
Any subject hit Front Page these days. Lack of news?
Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br
Being in the midst of a similar deal, I can just advise that you get a good lawyer to write the contract. It can be profitable, however.
My company offered to buy the domain. The person said, "NO" We asked if they would be so kind as to link our site to their homepage e.g. "If you were looking for... click here" I am sure there was money involved in this request.
They said NO!
So the company staff lawyers took it from them because we already were an already established trademark. In this case it was two names mashed together.
I would work with them if it's a company because they most likely are paying for lawyers anyway and this just gives them something to do!
What
This happened to me a couple years ago. At the time, my biggest concern was that the purchaser would try to take any willingness to sell as "proof" of cybersquatting, and would try to take me to arbitration. In addition, I felt no great need to sell it. In a nutshell, what happened:
- They asked if I would sell
- I replied I had had the domain for 11 years, and used the email address
- They offered me $8,000
- I respectfully declined, saying the usefulness of the domain was worth more personally to me than that
- They asked for a counter offer
- I replied I wasn't in any burning need for money, but that if the proceeds did something like pay off my house, I'd certainly sell. Taking taxes into account, that would work out to about $95,000 or so.
I really thought this would be the last I heard, but the saga continued:
- They counter offered with $30,000
- I replied that they evidently were serious, and that after discussion with my wife, we would certainly let the domain name go for $70,000
- As expected, they split the difference with an offer to $50,000
- I accepted
Lessons to take from this? The best position to be in is to not require the money, and not care if you sell it or not. This relieves you of pressure, and allows you to make rational choices.
Perhaps you could be kind and give them DNS forwarding. You keep control of the domain (and your mail) and forward the DNS to whatever IP they ask.
Imagine that...doing something nice for someone, and not gouging them!
This may sound dorky, but maybe you should just give the domain to them! HOLD ON!! Hear me out! You are not using it for a commercial purpose, so prehaps you are better off with a a .org, or other TLD which might be more appropriate than a .com.
Wouldn't that make you a good netizen and boost your slashdot karma? Or would it just make you a putz? :-)
its an everyday domain sale incident. sell it through sedo.com or something, with escrow.
Read radical news here
This is how I handled it, too, although in my case I was dealing with a one-man shop and settled for a lot less. But we both walked away happy: I got rid of a domain name that I didn't really need anymore, and they got their first choice. :)
It is a business after all. I don't write code if a company isn't willing to pay me. Based on some of the specs I've had to deal with, a number of these projects could be classified as stupid. But then, it is their job to run their business, I'm just a code monkey.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You probably won't get offered more than a few hundred dollars, so if you're really not going to use it, then go sell it and recoup your domain fees. But if you have ever considered running your own business and your name isn't terribly long/hard to spell, then you may wish to hold on to this domain a little while longer until you have a better idea of what the future holds.
Two (or more) companies can own the same name for different trademarks in different contexts. You can sell computers with the brand Nissan because Nissan motors failed to register their trademark for that region and that purpose. As long as Nissan Computer Corp continues to defend their trademark, it will have to stand. Once they give up then pretty much all uses of the name "Nissan" would revert to Nissan Motors because they are the only one defending it.
A better example is if your last name is Mayo, and you try to start "Mayo Auto Clinic". Then the actual "Mayo Clinic" might try to stop you if they are concerned it might confuse patients(customers). Also a hospital has a lot more leeway in a court than a Japanese car company.
Trademarks really are not supposed to be about whoever has the most money wins. But they are sometimes.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
If your name was Coke you'd probably have many other issues to deal with much more important than the sale of your domain name. Probably not the least of which would be paying off exorbitant bills for psychotherapy required because of the merciless torment you received as a child.
I'd offer to sell the domain with a binding permanent agreement that all email sent to "yourname@domain.com" will be forwarded or accessable to you. that way they can take the domain and use it for their purposes, but you get to keep it for your email usage needs.
Maybe the submitter stripped out the personally identifying parts. Also, as the company in question is from the Netherlands (.nl) then did it occur to you that English may not be their first language?
Um, Prinsegracht in Den Haag actually.
Don't get excited.
Do NOT imply it is for sale - now or ever.
Just say that your domain name, because it is your real name, is very useful to you at this time, and it isn't likely that they could compensate you for the loss if you ever were to sell it.
Don't worry. They'll "get it." And they will also see that your are not going to sell it cheap.
Do NOT make an offer. Let them make THE OFFERS; let them keep making offers.
Initially just respond with a simple, THANKS, but NO THANKS.
If they ever did make an attractive enough offer, don't say yes. Ask: If I did agree, how could we handle it?
Keep in mind one alternative is for you to lease it to them. CAUTION. Inflation is REAL. It is impossible to know a fair price 10 years out. If this is a possibility, get your own PROFESSIONAL advice.
Meanwhile, YOU learn how to handle it and do it the SAFE way.
Don't be intimidated. Their offshore business does not trump your own name, a name that you did NOT register with the intent to sell. You have possession and have every right to retain your own name.
You should know that it is said that a "nice company" like McDonald's (XXX Trillion Sold) has tried to intimidate people whose family name is McDonald, intimidate them into giving up naming rights that have NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOD.
Patrick R.
If you don't care, give (or sell) them the name.
If you like your transfer contract could require them to forward mail to you for a fixed term (e.g. 5 years) and even give you reversion rights (e.g. if they go out of business or sell their company to a bigger company you get the domain back or have the right to buy it back or something). They might not want to agree to those terms in which case you can part as friends (or you could say ok, I can live without the thing they don't like). That's how business is done.
Absolutely minimal lawyering required, and they could pay for your tiny legal bill. If you pick a good lawyer the bill need only be for an hour or two. Even an outrageously expensive lawyer won't be too much if it's only an hour or two.
I registered a domain name about 6 years ago with the intent of starting a company [...] but I had a pipeline of about 20 other web projects in front of the one I was considering for this domain
Just out of curiosity, how many of these projects have you completed in the six years since?
You can ask them to donate an amount to an organization you would like to support, but wouldn't normally give the cash to. I did this and got the buyer to donate some few hundred dollars to EFF. They did the donation, and I rang up the EFF directly to check that the money was donated. If you want pure cash, have a look for domain escrow services - they are supposed to help prevent fraud.
Happy moony
Nissan has *already lost the f*cking case*.
They've lost. They can't get the domain. And they've pissed away a lot of money that they could have used to just pay the guy. Everybody wins in that situation. Now everybody is lost. I agree with the parent. The guy who pursued this with lawyers at Nissan should be fired.
When Shakespeare wrote "first kill all the lawyers"* his ire was somewhat misdirected.
You know it was Jack Cade, the villian of the piece, that said this right?
FYI: Apparently, it was "Dick the butcher", and not "Jack Cade". Cade did concur, though.
Sources:
* http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Henry_VI,_Part_2
* http://www.shakespeare-literature.com/Henry_VI,_part_2/13.html
* http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext98/2ws0210.txt
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Not if they came to him first
No, that is a trap that is often used by someone trying to get your domain name. They send you a letter offering some ridiculously small amount (like $5), and if you respond back with, "no, but I'll sell it to you for $5000", then you are then accused of cybersquatting for profit and your offer could be considered evidence against you of a desire to profit. See the Mike Rowe case (mikerowesoft.com); that's exactly what Microsoft did to him.
See also http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/getcase/4th/case/001918P&exact=1.
Under 15 U.S.C. 1125(d)(1)(B)(i), a court may consider several factors to determine whether a defendant acted in bad faith, including
The original poster doesn't seem to meet this, but you might be advised to first:
- have them make you an offer
- ask them to write a letter asserting that they believe that you are not cybersquatting and asking you to enter negotiations with them to determine reasonable terms.
Take the money and run to the bank!!!
I have a real horror story I could tell you.
Sincerely yours,
J. R. Slashdot
Although dutch is also spoken at parties, it is not a party trick, it is a language spoken by ~20 milion people. If english is not your native language, people might have some trouble with it. Techies are hired for their technical knowledge, not their fluency in English or Swahili. Your apparent refusal to translate my previous answer in dutch illustrates my point: it is pretty arrogant to demand foreigners to speak your language flawlessly when communicating with you.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you