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Average User Only Runs 2 Apps, So Microsoft Will Charge For More
Barence writes "Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium. The three-app rule includes applications running in the background but excludes antivirus, and the company claims most users wouldn't be affected by the limit. 'We ran a study which suggested that the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time]. We would expect the limit of three applications wouldn't affect very many people.' However, Microsoft told journalists at last year's Professional Developers Conference that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time."
Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium.
Ok, ok, hold the phone. I bitched about this last time and I'll bitch about it again. Where is the official Microsoft statement?
PCPro has an interview with a Microsoft product manager claiming this but I would assume everything is up in the air until it's officially released. Even he uses words like "we would" and makes it sound like this would only be available to OEMs. Which if you think about it is a great strategy because once a major OEM adopts a Windows, it's as good as gold. It doesn't matter to Microsoft if Dell's phone lines are awash with people trying to open up Windows Media Player while running anti-virus and IE, the deal is done at that point. Of course it will be sold only to OEMs; using them as insulation to the potential retaliation of consumers but you won't be able to pick it up in Best Buy.
Quite frankly, I'm giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt. I just did a Google search for Windows Vista: Compare editions and the first set of links are all the official Microsoft Compare Editions site. I don't know how long that's been down for but click any of those links and it's broken. From a cache of Vista Starter edition I found this tidbit:
Windows Vista Starter is not available in developed technology markets such as the United States, the European Union, Australia, or Japan.
So I would contend that Microsoft has already washed the slate of the Compare Editions campaign of Vista and put that behind them. They will wise up and change their mind about Windows 7 soon if they haven't already. And if they do have a starter edition--like they did with Vista--it will probably be shipped only on OEMs to undeveloped tech markets where consumers are glad to have a computer and lack a very American sense of entitlement to consumer rights.
And if Microsoft only charges ~$10 for this edition of Windows 7, it may have a positive net effect for third world countries--although it makes you wonder how long other people will put up with shelling out $100 before finding an alternative.
My work here is dung.
Source:TheOnion.com?
Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers
Lurking in the desert
before Windows starts crashing.
id they explain to the users what "an application" is? I'm sure a quick straw poll around non-IT guys in my office asking "How many things are you running?" would result in a similar number, but then if I explained that "the internet" is a browser application, that "listening to my music" is a media player app, that "getting my email" is a mail client, and so on would bump the number up to a couple of visible apps like Word and Excel plus a futher three or four concurrent applications that are essentially invisible.
Another effect could also be to drive the usage of things like Google Docs further in the home marketplace. If you can't run Word but you can run a browser it'd make much more sense to use a browser based application.
Mind you, this could have an 'unexpected' benefit. Anyone running a bot would find they can't open a browser or play music or something. People would have a good incentive to make sure their PC is only running what it should be running.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
What if you get a virus? Oops it opens notepad and wordpad and now you can't run anything.
Hell, what about just running Antivirus? This is completely outrageous.
This means that 2 cores should be enough for everybody !
839*929
This is exactly why I use linux...
[On a Q6600 with 4GB RAM] I have 10 virtual desktops, and on them I _concurrently_ run:
Firefox with >150 tabs (using Tree Style Tabs for nesting);
10+ instances of acrobat reader;
VMWare running Windows XP;
as well as instant messengers, IRC, audio player, multiple VLC video players, etc
Not to mention that in that VMWare (Windows XP guest), I run a HUGE electronics design software suite... and it actually loads and runs faster in VMWare than running in native Windows XP!
Windows could never even attempt to run all these programs concurrently, smoothly, without crashes, and without delays in-between using any given app.
2 processes should be fine... after all, 640K of memory should be enough for anybody ;)
Heh...next thing, car companies will issue a study saying that people mostly use the first four gear and that they'll change extra for fifth gear.
Morons. Or crooks. Take your pick.
the more systems will slip through your fingers. (mostly a quote from Star Wars, 1978.) MS hasn't figured this out yet.
Take a wild guess why an IE user, still the largest browser group on Windows, might have half a dozen or more windows open at once. "Rebuttals" like this do nothing but spread misinformation. Yes, this is stupid on Microsoft's part, but comments like this just make the opposition look stupid.
This is getting really old. At no point has Microsoft even hinted that the Starter Edition would be used on netbooks. It is made for developing nations. Period. Just because a few random blogs found out that the Starter Edition exists and started going "OMFG, MS is going to put this on netbooks" doesn't make it so. Everything else that's come out about this is pure speculation based on rumors started by those same idiot bloggers.
And that's why I can't stand blogs and bloggers.
The End
Out of curiosity has anyone ever actually seen a "Starter" version of Windows in use? I don't think I ever have. I wonder what portion of users actually use that version. That's not, of course, any justification -- I still think this is a really shitty move.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. Microsoft might as well donate $10 billion to the free software foundation and call it a day.
I predict some hackers come up with a way around this very quickly. I'm thinking something similar to Firefox's tabbed browsing, but for multiple applications.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
"Browser, Email Client, IM Client. I'm sorry, if you want to play music as well you're going to have to upgrade to a better operating system. It's called Windows 98, you may have heard of it." Ridiculous Microsoft... truly.
Is that one app, or one app for every window?
Thank god that Win7 Starter is just the "we have to deliver Windows bundled with our crates, we know people will wipe it as the first thing they do with their new machines, and we hope they don't come in for the cents for a refund" version.
I mean, imagine it was supposed to be a real OS someone would be forced to use!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
task manager has 36 entries in the applications tab, 66 Processes, 37 open Windows.
605413? Yes, it's a prime.
"The three-app rule includes applications running in the background" So, I assume they'll be bludgeoning HP, Dell, etc for installing crapware after crapware to the tune of nearly 30 extra processes on first boot? Or HP (again!), Logitech, Cannon, Intel, etc etc for their awful driver packages that can leave more than one "background" task running?! I know the monkeys at Microsoft aren't the brightest bulbs, but you would think that the marketing department at least USES Windows... if only on occasion.
In other words... we don't want anybody to buy our cheapest product, so we'll enforce a ludicrous restriction never used in any other OS or software company before, with some statistical justification in the hopes that people will "think" we offer cheap products but still buy the expensive ones which are virtually identical but have a one-bit flag difference between them.
The average user might only use one or two "apps" but it's the definition of apps that's the problem. Apparently AV isn't an app, by this definition. But a firewall might be. A utility to check your startup entries might be. What about the Adobe Reader Speed Launcher, is that an app? Notepad? This is the problem - they are drawing a boundary where it doesn't make ANY sense to anybody. To users, their startup entries are not apps. But to the professional, a startup entry which works around the app limit could well be the downfall of the entire system that could allow companies or charities to save money by buying the cheaper Starter editions.
They are trying to introduce an artificial limitation based on the intended use, rather than just targetting the intended use - cheap, compatible, standard, available for home use. Instead, they want you to "think" that somebody actually buys that crap and that you are a "power user" because you have more than three apps open, thus leading you to believe that you have to buy a "more powerful" operating system for more money.
It's crap. Nobody will buy it, like nobody bought the other starter editions... because it's an artificial limitation for no good, technical reason.
What is the extra cost to MS for allowing users run more apps? What is the cost savings for restricting to two? Unless there is something significant here... the pricing structure is just silly.
Can I just write a meta app that runs multiple apps beneath it? I'm sure it's not as easy as it sounds... but I'd expect to see some pretty clever work arounds.
Microsoft DOES want people to like their product, don't they?
I've generally defended Microsoft and their products against the non-objective hordes of Linux zealots here at slashdot, but this is inexcusable and ridiculous.
Similes are like metaphors
I can't think of any time I use two or less applications (just counting the ones that show up in the taskbar) except right when the computer boots up...
I wonder where they got their test data from? I personally am glad I made the switch to *nix for regular application use. The only time I am forced to use a MS OS is when I need to play a game, so that is only one process still.
http://www.anthonyw.net
We should all install Linux... microsoft is bad. Blah, blah, blah... Linux should take over the world!
Yah, xterm and firefox are my two apps. I think I'll be going elsewhere, Microsoft. Thanks for thinking of us, though!
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
I guess they don't want me running Microsoft apps locally in Windows. How many apps does this count as?
1) GMail in Firefox
2) Yahoo Calendar in Firefox
3) Zoho spreadsheet in Firefox
4) ThinkFree word processing in Firefox
5) Facebook in Firefox
6) (some IM app) in Firefox
7) wiki in Firefox
8) Amazon simpleDB in Firefox
9) Salesforce.com apps in Firefox
10) Hulu TV in Firefox
11) Pandora radio in Firefox
etc.
It is well known that the number of windows open has no real connection to the number of applications running. I had 3 applications running the other day: 1 game with 1 window, 1 web browser with 3 windows, and 1 chat client with 5 windows.
3 applications, 9 windows.
Now please, stop with the fucking anti-MS FUD.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
I mean, from a salesmanager's point of view it might be a good idea to sell such a version of the OS for next to nothing expecting people to upgrade (and pay more) as soon as they run into the 3 applications wall, but you must remember that people are basically paying for an inferior product (compared to Linux anyhow.) - so, if you take that into consideration, why not give something even more inferior out and charge even more for the upgrade? I think this sounds like something that truly came out of the marketing/sales department.
Also, there is a difference between applications and processes on Windows, at least there is on my old XP machine where I currently have 4 applications running and 25-ish processes running. My Linux system currently claim to have 178 processes running.
If this isn't the manifestation of greed, I don't know what is. However, some Linux distros should be able to use this to captialize in the netbook market and increase their share.
Umm hello? The 2nd biggest selling point of Windows probably back to 3.0 after a GUI was so-called "multi-tasking" - i.e. multiple applications, is MS trying to jump back a full 2 decades in one go?
Looking at my desktop
- Browser (never less than 2-3 tabs)
- File explorer
- Instant messenger (being generous and counting as one, since you can use Pidgin, Digsby, Trillian etc)
- Email client
- Text editor
- One application actually doing the work (office, an IDE or whatever)
3 times over the limit already, although I guess that as long as you allow yourself to be voluntarily locked into their propriatary applications (IE, Microsoft Live, Outlook) you may be given just that little more...
Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
Seriously, such limitations gives the public the perception that older versions of Windows, in particular XP, are a better value and more usable.
If Microsoft plays up the "most people only run 2 apps" too much, that makes it far easier for others to sell people on netbooks, running a non-Microsoft O/S. For browsing, email, and basic word processing many people can't tell the difference / don't care what the O/S is.
Ron
If one is stuck with that one could run a free OS in one of those vizualisation applications and run their mediaplayer, webbrowser etc in there, while leaving two spots for windows-only applications.
or do development costs for an OS go up significantly when you hit that 3 app wall? Or did MS just pick something they could charge for as a feature. I could see brainstorming for this.."Well windows was so well received in the first place because it allowed users to multitask...Lets charge for it now they've been getting this multitasking feature free a little to long now!"
"the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time] ... 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time"
This isn't contradictory. The average porn consumer (and really, what else is the internet good for?) probably usually only has one app open (Firefox), and about 80 windows. I know I usually do.
"Microsoft's decision to limit Windows 7 Starter Edition to running only three concurrent applications could force up the price of netbooks as many manufacturers opt for the more expensive Home Premium.
This is a call to hackers everywhere to release a tool that will defeat this nonsense the moment Windows 7 is released.
Or let's all help improve KDE 4.2 so that we can do what ever we want on the Windows platform. I see that the start of KDE on Windows was not bad at all.
If this news is true, then folks will find ways around it. Running a VM could be one. Or they will turn more to web apps -- hello, tabbed browsing!
Maybe this is actually an attempt to limit malware. If your computer is running multiple malicious background apps, suddenly you won't be able to run anything else, and users will become more careful about sites they visit, etc.??? Nah, that'll never work...
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
Of course, the obvious alternative would be for people to just dig out their old copies of Windows 3.1.
;-)
That could cope quite well with running two applications, just so long as you didn't sneeze or look at the machine sideways. But the proviso of course applies just as much to later releases. The advantage here is that your two applications will run (or crash) blazingly fast...
*ducks*
Translation: We have way to much money and taxes are getting to be a real pain in the but. What can we do to offload some of our users so I can spend more time chilling. This software business is hard work, if there was a way to have another company share the load with us it would be great.
More and more software that includes "anti-virus" functionality, such as media players, web browsers, email clients, etc ...
This is how the public perception slowly turned against Vista - small snippets of negative information. Aside from being a horrendously incomplete OS when it shipped, Vista's problems began with little things like these - intentional crippling of the OS, multi-version release that didn't make any sense, elaborate DRM layers to prevent some hypothetical housewife from ripping HD content, etc.
This time around it is not enough to have a rock solid OS. Microsoft also needs to win the PR war and reverse the past damage Vista has caused. I can't see how replaying these things is going to help Windows 7.
It's like they had a meeting and concluded that Vista's problems were caused only by third-party drivers and not by things within their control.
There is already a limit on how many apps you can run at the same time in Windows - it's called "your system's specs." We don't need another limit.
Q: Why would you pay for an operating system that deliberately keeps your computer from performing at its true potential?
A: You don't know any better.
Q: Why would Microsoft sell you that?
A: Um... to try to force you to buy an upgrade?
I can't think of any GOOD reason...
Is it April Fool's day already ?
They may (in part) be right if they were surveying those with Vista Home Basic. Everyone I know who has Vista has opted for Home Premium if, for nothing else, media center (the xbox 360 is kinda slick like that). I would imagine that most people using Home Basic would maybe have IE, solitaire, and windows media player/iTunes open at once. We're looking at the bottom rung users here and they're probably right with their figures.
That being said, I think this is pretty stupid of MS to do. I don't think this was a problem to begin with seeing that no one in their right mind would want Vista Basic (okay, hold back the Vista jokes buddy) to begin with. Netbook users maybe use a few more than 3 aps at once, but they're surely not using media center and other features of Premium, so it kinda balances.
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
What benefits would come from limiting the number of apps being run? Stability? Speed? I assume it would allow for a smaller amount of ram and a less power-hungry processor, but are there other benefits?
Wine let's me run as many as I want at about 1/28th the overhead... does Steve know this? I anticipate flying chairs.
Will Clippy pop up and tell you that you cannot open anymore programs or will they get some cryptic notification that the limitations placed on their operating system require them close one of the currently open programs.
Will spyware be included as one of the programs or do Conficker and AV360 count as "Anti-Virus"?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Yeah; create artificial functional boundaries by squeezing and limit functionality wherever and whenever, because you can. Instead of helping and teaching people to *over* utilize it.
Though it has been done forever, it is decadent and perverse.
Okay, time to work. Let's see:
MP3 player running .... check .... check .... check
IM client running
Firefox running
Now all I have to do is start Word and I'll be ready to work.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I mean, if I'm checking for emails, and I'm surfing the web ... that doesn't leave me an ability to do work!
I always claimed Microsoft was impacting my performance at work in the past ... but even for me this is taking it a bit far ...
You will NEVER see this edition in the west. This is designed for ultra poor countries and it's a fraction of the price of other editions. The version you will see on netbooks will be Home Basic (the most logical version for a fully compatible, budget laptop), not this.
Has anyone even seen a computer with Vista/XP starter edition?
The FUD surrounding Windows 7 is getting increasingly desperate each day. Slashdot is almost becoming a parody of itself on this front. If there's valid things to criticise MS on then fine but don't twist things around in a desperate bid to make them look evil in such a pathetic manner.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/02/06/microsofts-plan-to-upsell-windows-7/
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03Win7SKU-QA.mspx
If MS really does this, they might as ship windows with a big icon on the middle of the screen that take people to apple Switch site. Perhaps they can demo the multimedia functions with a "I'm a Mac" commercial in Quicktime. People just need one more reason to switch.
Really as if the proliferation of windows versions weren't bad enough. This makes the major desktop versions of linux look easier to decipher.
Think Deeply.
Carrie Fisher just released her autobiography "Wishful Drinking". The cover shows her, as Princess Leia, nearly passed out with martini glass in hand and pills nearby.
Don't think she'll be saving us from the Empire this time around.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
If Google Chrome opens a new thread for each tab, will Windows 7 Starter recognise this as one app or multiple?
Guess I am going to buck the trend here but I could see this being useful for kiosk / terminal applications. How many applications does that computer for looking up books run at your local library for instance.
Obviously this would not be good for you average desktop user but I see no issue for specific usage situations to save a few bucks.
As near as I can tell, Starter Edition doesn't really exist as a viable product, and is simply there so MS can list Windows as starting at some low price in their marketing material. Honestly...who's going to use it with this kind of restriction?
charging variable rates based on the alphanumeric distribution of a-z letters in the filename.
more letters, you pay more. more vowels, you pay more.
"If you drive a car car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit sit, I'll tax your seat,
If you get too cold cold, I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk walk, I'll tax your feet."
really - this is taxation applied to software.
I hope they do it, too - I'd like to see the MS empire finally crumble. this could do it. PLEASE over-tax us! please!
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
And did I miss the transition to a multi-tasking OS somewhere ?
A fascinating read sir.. sadly I am confused as to the relation this has to windows 7.
BTw I am going to put your entry on my blog.
Who should a credit?
[compmd@compmdt34fed ~]$ ps aux | wc -l
229
I guess I can't migrate to Windows 7 Starter Edition.
This is a good Thing!(TM).
People don't need to overuse their computing resources. By charing per application, and possibly per window, users will think twice before opening another application.
Solitaire, Word AND Firefox, prepare to pay for another application instance.
Want to spell check that document? prepare to pay a "small fee" for the spell check applet.
Want to print? pay a "small fee" for the print applet.
People purchase a license, but use many applications, for which Microsoft is compensated ONLY ONCE!
a pay-per-use model will work wonders for Windows. Pay 400.00 for the initial license, and pay for each individual feature you use!
Since in Google Chrome, each tab is it's own process, does that mean that if the EU decides to use it as their browser of choice that they are then limited to 2 tabs?
I am running: Word, firefox, outlook, bittorrent, freedownload manager, pidgin.
windows 7 starter is the biggest ripoff ever.
they say it is often more relevant then the comment above, all we know is its called the Sig!
Why Windows 7 would be different from XP or Vista Starter Editions? They all have the same limitations, its not only the 3 application at a time thing. There are other minor differences too.
This edition is to lower the cost to OEMs in developing countries. This way they keep the Windows everybody wants in theirs PC and MS keeps alternatives away.
And please, RTFA. AntiVirus software isn't included in this 3 app limit!
How about drivers that uses background apps? like ati, nvidia, and intel video? most wifi cards, sound cards / on board sound chips, printers / scanners, and other usb stuff like web cams and more?
Plug in's like adobe reader, quick time, Windows media player, java, and others?
Most anti virus apps have 2 or more apps in the back round + some have a in the front update checker / installer.
Does the Ubuntu installer count as only one app?
Have gnu, will travel.
Unbelievable. Not in my wildest anti micro$oft dreams would micro$oft do something absurd like this. Oh wait I just got out of bed. maybe i am still dreaming.
This is a happy day, m$ is destroying windows by them selves ones again.
I'm glad to see Microsoft has learned their lesson.
Princess Leia: I'd rather kiss a Wookie.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
...and no one will need more than 640kb of RAM.
Then again, after looking at Vista I suppose this is at least plausible... Where's the press release?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
This is AMAZING news for Google. Why use MS office? You cant open two aps. Just open firefox and winamp. Do all your docs and research through google. Winamp or last.fm for music and you are good. Really I don't need windows, just a shell that can run FF. Though really this is all pointless since its hearsay over a product i'll never see so w/e
The average user only runs too apps. So we've built them in; Explorer 7 and Silverlight.
Some people do not master basic statistics! I can't fathom how they can be promoted to the highest levels of business in large publicly traded companies.
While the average is a useful metrics, it is not an indication that everyone or even a typical user uses just that average. Just think for a moment, three applications is the bare minimum. You need already two, to make use of things like copy/paste.
Note that a universal OS like MS Windows already does eat lots of resources just to get warmed up. So running many applications will result in hitting the roof on resources pretty soon on something like a netbook. Why you need a cap on "apps started" is beyond me.
Busy helping non technical users of OpenOffice.org - http://plan-b-for-openoffice.org/
Hi! It looks like you're trying to run more than two applications, which is currently not allowed! Would you like to:
- shoot yourself in the other foot (you brought this upon yourself in the first place)
- throw a chair at the nearest bystander
- do the monkey dance while yelling "applications applications applications!"
- write an internal memo whining about your new netbook not being able to do actual work
I can forsee the next "switch to a Mac advert":
PC screams and then is busily forking over money. Mac then asks PC what's happening, to which PC responds "I have just tried running Outlook, Internet Explorer, Windows Media player and now I can't open Notepad". Mac asks why, to PC responds "I reached the three application limit, so I need to upgrade to the next version of Windows, but now I am not which version to choose". Again Mac asks "Surely there is are just two versions: desktop and server?". PC then explains the wide range of Windows 7 versions available and he was only supplied with the most minimal version.
Of course to be /. friendly ;) :
Linux in the background is laughing at poor PC over being screwed over, and thinks: "if only he had chosen Ubuntu".
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Just install Cygwin and run Emacs.
"We would expect the limit of three applications wouldn't affect very many people."
Mr. Painell, could you rephrase that in simpler terms?
"We think most people don't want to run more than three apps."
Ah, but might you say that three apps is mostly sufficient. Or perhaps enough?
"Well, our studies indicate..."
That three is enough?
"Is that what you want me to say?"
Well, Mr. Painell it sounds like...
"ALL RIGHT! I'll say it!"
"I'll say it: Three applications ought to be enough for anybody!"
"Three apps is enough for anybody."
"Three apps is enough for anybody."
"Three apps is enough for anybody."
"Are you happy now?!"
1.) explorer.exe ...uh...wlogon.exe (or whatever the Windows logon process is) ...so, what you're saying is that I can barely get the OS started? Geez, with these kinds of restrictions, I can't even get that antivirus that the OS is gonna nag me about every five minutes! Wait, will that process even be able to run at all? Well, at least we don't have any room left for viruses to run, either. Hey! The first version of Windows that is 100% protected against viruses! Cool!
2.) Desktop Window Manager (dwm.exe?)
3.)
This is stupid. >_>
Every time I see a Windows 7 story here, I'm glad I converted to Ubuntu at the start of the year.
Here in Brazil we have starter editions since before Vista, and the xp starter was even more crippled, it didn't allowed resoltions greater than 1024x768, and even though there were computers with this windows and 17" lcd monitors, wich have a native resoltion of 1280x1024, forcing everyone who bought those to have a blurred screen
was 10 apps...
Microsoft told journalists at last year's Professional Developers Conference that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time.
I went looking for this. All I found was blogs and online articles repeating this factoid but no attribution whatsoever. One of the early bloggers, maybe Twit Zero, had it as one of a list of "things I learned at the PDC". My bet is he "learned" this on a bar stool.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
The iPhone/iPod Touch only runs one application at a time and that seems to work fine for a majority of users (ie. the ones that aren't screaming for push functionality).
The problem with averages is that they're an average. Does this mean that users are going to have to be inconvenienced by closing an application they're working with in order to do another important, but less regular task? They go to all the effort to re-brand Vista, fix some of the issues, but not only do they stick with their ridiculously large range of the same OS, now they're back to doing even more dimwitted ideas? Is Ballmer that clueless that he thinks this kind of thing really helps their situation? They need to get real.
This is going to be great for power users--the kind that read slashdot.
Why? chances are you want to use Linux or a mac but you can't because the typical user has a handful of application that
1) they have to run concurrently
2) that require windows.
For example, a lot of people MUST use windows (or a mac) because they have no alternative to running Word or Excell or some enterprise app.
but really just how many apps require MS?
the thing keeping virtualization from taking off is that windows is not cheap. But with a starter edition it could be made cheap.
run sun's virtual box. then you can run windows and linux seamlessly at the same time. FOr the aplications that require windows you use windows.
this would probably work out well.
However it won't actually work for the low end user. The lowend user is not going to have the sophistication to run two operating systems.
It may work out however for the high enduser that has the savy and extra computer resources needed to virtualize
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Let's suppose that "it" is true, and by "it" I mean the statement "the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time]." Now we can only accept reasonable interpretations of this. That is, it cannot possibly be taken to mean that the "average consumer" only has some 2.xx applications running... EVER. In other words, there will be times that even the most basic Windows user will have more than this open. Even the most "basic" or simple Windows user will eventually run into the 3 application limit, and when this happens, they will be frustrated by it. In fact, as the general public becomes more computer savvy (and computers generally become more powerful, artificial software crippling notwithstanding), I would fully expect this "just over two" statistic will only rise.
Maybe its because they're trying to run a slow OS, Vista/XP (And if you think XP isn't slow just compare it with 2K); with slot graphics, Intel; on a slow CPU, Atom; with a dinky screen size, 8"; and pitiful resolution 1024x600?
So of course people are only running 2 apps at once.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
1. The whole three application limit is nothing new, the same limit applies in XP Starter Edition and Vista Starter Edition.
2. I have severe doubts that Starter Edition is going to be embraced by the netbook market. XP Starter Edition wasn't, neither was Vista Starter Edition, so why would Windows 7 Starter Edition?
3. The study referenced would in no way be aimed at an analysis of the usage habits of the market that Starter Edition is intended for. Thus, the results are in no way relevant. Netbook usage patterns don't follow the same usage patterns as desktops and notebooks.
4. Microsoft recently went on record as saying that any edition of Windows 7 will work fine on netbooks. Whether this is true in reality remains to be seen, but, it is still significant in that it indicates Microsoft does not appear to internally be targetting only "x" edition(s) of 7 for the netbook market, but all. This has engineering ramifications.
and...
that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time.
4. You would have thought a Slashdot poster would understand the difference between an application, a window, and a process. The limit appears to be process based, with no limit on application windows per process. From the Vista Starter Edition information (which I suspect will very closely resemble Windows 7 Starter Edition once finished):
With Windows Vista Starter, first-time home computer users can run up to three programs concurrently with no limit to the number of windows open.
This is not uncommon, for instance, Firefox will run all tabs and browsers under one process. If I'm running an e-mail client, I may well have numerous windows open, but all stemming from one process.
Make no mistake, Windows 7 Starter Edition is a thoroughly crippled operating system, I suspect will represent extremely poor value for money, is completely unnecessary in the product lineup, and ideally, should be dropped. However, this doesn't legitimise the usage of FUD (or bullshit, if you prefer) when discussing it.
Frankly, it's rubbish enough that FUD shouldn't be necessary in the first place.
...and all of them for FREE! I can't understand why anyone would run Windoze over Ninnle. Those that do are SUCKERS!
Microsoft should call this Windows Mid-Manager edition, since the only people using 3 apps are enterprise level office drones doing data entry via Excel or Word, Possibly Powerpoint. They are so locked down that they can't listen to music, or use IM or anything except the tools for their job. Even receptionists would balk at this... but the mid-manager's would be okay, they just want to go play golf anyways....
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
At least it's an improvement on Vista, which is capable of "booting the operating system, without running applications or games".
If microsoft wants to price their software this way, I figure the free market will determine whether or not it's a workable concept all on its own (I anticipate it will probably work quite favorably for MS... as a lot of people who might have settled for the basic version pay more to get an os with the capabilities they need or want).
In fact, people who would get upset about this are probably best suited for a professional edition anyways, and have probably only been utilizing a home edition of windows in the past simply because it was cheaper and happened good enough for what they wanted to do.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
So what? So your attack against the offtopic GP is a huge so what if he is right? Good job.
ok, this will be a bad idea in practice, but could one not run 3 VM's, each booting another install of starter edition to run 3 apps each?
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
non-event !
Every time I run IE and go to certain websites a bunch of windows automatically open for me. It's really helpful when I'm surfing with just one hand.
Right now, my desktop looks like this :
1. Sql Server Management Studio
2. Pythonwin
3. Aptana
4. Firefox,
5. Safari
6. IE 7
7. Boinc Manager
8. Notepad
I consider my multitasking average. So MS might be incorrect in this assumption...
I don't remember, everyone working on a time share based system like back in the mainframe dark ages. Can we find the people who make these dumb ideas and make them be the first to be put against the wall when the revolution comes?
Sounds like a standard genie agreement to me: You are allowed 3 wishes. I guess Virtualisation software is like wishing for more wishes.
Get free bitcoins: http://freebitco.in
... for giving people even more reasons to run Linux instead of Windows. Really, this is completely sick. My last Windows machine at home has been reformatted with Linux last year, I'll never run Vista and I doubt the next Windows will go anywhere. Windows users are basically happy with XP, meaning that XP finally did what '95, '98 and 2000 should have done but never did accomplish. Who needs Vista? What is Windows 7??
I had to use a XP Home edition on a laptop that wouldn't run Linux/*BSD without pains 2-3 years ago. (That XP came preinstalled with the laptop accompanied by a rescue CD that extracted an image into a partition. This would result in a XP installation with lots of other crap preinstalled.)
So I first got my backups (as administrator of course) unpacked onto the XP Home box and tried to change the permissions on that backup so that it could be accessed by an account with normal user privileges. It took me nearly half an hour to realize that XP Home doesn't let you change permissions on files. Another half one to find the way Microsoft thinks this should work (Copying into a folder called sth like public documents or so. Hardrive was 80GB large and I had ~60GB of backups.). I finally found a HOWTO on the net for making a XP Professional (nearly feature complete) out of my Home edition and an installation CD using BartPE.
Result: even XP has editions which are crippled beyond being useful. This is hardly news.
Fuck them. Linux, OSX or nothing.
photosMy Photostream
My mum uses more than three apps at any one time, even ignoring Anti-virus.
MSN Messenger (which she uses mainly to access Hotmail), Web Browser (i've managed to get her using Firefox atleast), Spider Solitaire and a Music Player.
then ofcourse there's MS Word which she uses ocasionally
That's 5, and if Anti-virus software is included 6. Any other user might well use a seperate Email Client to, and that's the 7 applications from the old report (the 70% of windows users have 7 apps open at once thing)
If it's released only to developing countries what will they be using on it? Browser, check, Email, possibly, Office tools, most likely, Solitaire/Minesweeper, probably. Messaging sofware, also likely (that's 5 off the bat)
As they get more net Savvy they'll probably have Bittorrent, Itunes, perhaps even a proper Game. At this point they'll be net Savvy enough to know their version of Windows is seriously locked down and will want an upgrade. They will do one of two things: Shell out for a new computer with a proper version of Windows (doubtful, they're in a developing country and if they've had to buy a nerfbook they're probably too poor to do so) or they download through their newly acquired Bittorrent programme a dodgy copy of Windows 7 (or perhaps are savvy enough and go download a copy of XP)
As the second one is more likley, but may not always happen, if you ever happen to speak to a nerfbook user in a developing country with a starter edition of windows, point out their windows is crap and point them towards a proper version of windows (point them to the version your conscience allows - or indeed, Linux).
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
OEM's would have little to no interest in this version of the OS.
OEMs get a notable amount of income on the side by installing a ton of garbage apps on systems that they sell. A brand new HP out of the box, loads a half dozen apps on boot up, littering the system tray with resource gobbling, efficiency killing apps.
OEM's would laugh at anyone trying to tell them that they cannot load as many crap apps as they can possibly sell.
It's like Microsoft has a death wish. I'm about as far from a power user as you can get, and I'm sitting here right now with more than three applications open. Lots of people who work with graphics or multimedia applications take short breaks and don't want to shut everything down. Is it unreasonable to have open at the same time: PhotoShop, Firefox, Thunderbird, Winamp, a bit torrent client, a paint or draw ap, a game of some kind, a calculator and something to hotsync a PDA? I could easily add a few more perfectly reasonable examples.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
The reason that Vista Starter Edition was never seen in US/Europe was because Microsoft would only license it for computers sold in developing countries. However, from what I've read, this time around Home Basic is going to be for developing countries only, while Starter Edition is going to be available to OEMs worldwide. The rational being that Windows (including Home Basic) is too expensive for small computers like netbooks, so Starter Edition will be the inexpensive alternative.
That said, I think it would be idiotic for anyone to sell a computer with Starter Edition on it, even a netbook, but Microsoft is making it an option this time, and business world doesn't have any shortage of idiots when it comes to cutting costs on products.
I imagine that the starter edition will come with a big "upgrade to home premium for only $149" button. Microsoft is hoping they'll get the oem purchase (which wouldn't be much higher on any 'edition' of windows) and then force the end user to upgrade when they find the 3 application constraint to be unusable. It'll probably just lead to a rise in piracy and perhaps Linux adoption.
those three apps are all spyware running as a process. your comp would be rendered completely useless for anything. M$ is really screwing the pooch w/ their new os "models" OS as a service? No thanks I'll stick to xp for another decade.
If the number of applications running matters to the O.S.
- And that number is in single digits
- And that number isn't "1"
Then you've got serious fundamental O.S. design issues. Is Microsoft trying to kill off Windows once and for all before a big push to "Winbuntu"?
This quote, even if not an official policy of Microsoft is indicative of the monopolistic mindset of a tyrant.
There is *no* technological reason or justification to limit the number of applications that can be run. The *only* reason to even think of doing this is that if you are confident that no one can compete with you.
In a truly competitive environment, *NO* ISV could dare even think of this. The instant that you artificially limit your software, competition eats you up.
We, as an industry, REALLY REALLY need to nuke Microsoft. They are anti-customer (this), anti-worker (H1B), andi-freedom (DRM), and anti-competitive.
"This is typical of MS though--something not completely thought out that's going to have unintended consequences..."
It's NOT unintended consequences. It's intended. You probably think Microsoft is a software company that is sometimes abusive. It's not. It's an abuse company that uses software as a way of delivering abuse.
Yes, it's my opinion. But I'm not the only one.
the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time].
I don't doubt the first part, but I do doubt the second one. At any time? Sure? I'm very certain almost every computer user has had more than that running at times. Probably rarely, but let's see, every John Doe: Mail and Web, right? Let's assume he clicks on a PDF link and it opens Adobe Reader. Whoops, that's three apps right there. I'd also say he has a non-zero chance of having iTunes or WinAmp or some other MP3 player running in the background. That's four, or three if he's using webmail.
Also a lot of questions. For example, does IE count as one of those apps? Probably not, because otherwise the whole desktop would take up one slot. Ah! So that's how they arrived at that figure. You see, the typical MS user has open, at "any" time:
* IE (which doesn't count)
* surfes the web - of course with IE (which doesn't count)
* uses webmail - which means IE (doesn't count)
* hears some music - of course some internet radio via mediaplayer's IE plugin - which means it's running IE, which doesn't count
and so on?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
This is actually reasonably clever...
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
To Arr is Pirate!
The Starter Edition is just that.
Localization for third world markets.
Native language tutorials and tons of other help for absolute beginners.
If you know what Google is -
if you know what a web app is - and you have the reliable, low-latency, connection to the Internet that is needed to support it -
this isn't your computer.
Sugar is the graphical user interface originally developed for the One Laptop per Child computer/education project. Unlike more traditional desktop environments, it does not use a "desktop" metaphor and only focuses on one task at a time. The OLPC XO-1 has a 1 GB NAND flash drive and 256 MB of memory. Since there is no swap space and storage space on the laptop, only a limited number of activities can run concurrently. The laptop's hardware limitations have led to much more compact program design, harking back to the early days of the computer. The project's stated goal is to "avoid bloated interfaces", and "limit the controls to those immediately relevant to the task at hand". Sugar (GUI
The Only Way this Works is if they plan to offer Windows 7 as free software in third world markets to head off outright piracy. Today they have no hope of converting those users to paying users since they initial buy-in is huge. If they offered this limited version for free, to get it onto systems and out there, then charged small incremental fees to add more functionality, they might be able to monetize those markets.
Warning: Teh poster of this messaeg is lysdexic
Stop bitching. Geez. Its not like any of you were going to run down to Best Buy, lay down a 10 spot and install Win7 on your server. Did anyone actually expect that the $10 version of a $100 program was going to be the same?
I know this will be unpopular , but at $10, it would be the first choice for a lot of companies to run a Kiosk or single app station(like a POS).
D
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Man, I gotta assume that programs running as Windows Services must be excluded because, if services were included, in addition to the things the parent mentioned. . .
* CD Burning packages (Roxio, Nero, et al) often put 1 or more services in the background (like a service to let you burn files 'on-the-fly' to a CD instead of mastering the Disc; recent versions of Roxio include a network media sharing system to share music and videos with other users on your LAN, etc)
* iTunes installs 2 or 3 background services (bonjour, iPod service, mobile device service)
* Some applications like Java, Firefox, and OpenOffice have 'Quick Start' apps which run in the system tray, whose purpose is to keep the core of the app loaded into memory for faster 'startups'.
* etc, etc.
I suspect that if a 'quick start' application is NOT running as a service, but instead is running in application mode, it will count against this 3 app limitation.
Basically, though, I have to agree with other posters - I think Microsoft is royally shooting itself in the foot here. I mean, I understand Microsoft wanting to create some differentiation between different editions of Windows, so that they have the ability to create different price levels. But multi-tasking is a core feature of the O/S which has been around since Windows 1.0 in 1988 (or whatever - I don't remember the exact dates). Limiting the number of applications artificially is just plain dumb.
If Microsoft wants differentiation, they should base it on the apps which are included in the base install of the O/S. Like, maybe the Starter edition doesn't get any games (or only 1 game, like solitaire). Of course, the problem with that route is that as soon as Microsoft removes that stuff, people will just download free versions off the Internet. I was trying to think of things MS could remove from the base install, and all of them, except for, *maybe* Windows Media Player, could easily be replaced by third-party programs. The only reason WMP couldn't easily be replaced is because of WMP audio/video streams and files on websites, which other players cannot (legally) support. But removing WMP from Windows Starter is a losing proposition for Microsoft - the only reason that anyone uses WMP is because they know it is likely to be installed on user's computers. If Microsoft unbundles WMP, suddenly MP3/Mpg, RealAudio/RealVideo, iTunes AAC, etc become just as likely (or possibly more likely, in the case if iTunes) for a user to have the capability to play, so why would websites bother with WMP support any more? So, Microsoft just cannot unbundle WMP - it's bundled status is the only thing it has going for it, really.
The only other things I can imagine microsoft pulling out of the starter edition are things they already pulled out of the Home Basic version in XP, or the equivalent Vista SKU - things like file encryption, IIS, various other network services - which most home users wouldn't miss anyhow.
Actually, there is *one* thing I can think of Microsoft pulling out of a "Basic" edition which *might* drive home users to upgrade - Windows networking support - that is, the ability to access network shares, or share directories from the local computer to the network, and the ability to print to a network printer or share a network printer.
However - the problem with that is that, I suspect, third-parties will step in with their own solutions to that problem (like a network file browser based on a port of Samba, or a third-party device driver to map a network drive which looks like a local drive to Windows, or a printer driver that appears to be a local printer to Windows, but really is printing to an SMB shared printer, or even just prints using something like the old lpd protocol, or IPP.
There is almost nothing Microsoft can remove from Windows, that third parties won't replace either for free, or ver
You would have thought a Slashdot poster would understand the difference between an application, a window, and a process.
I don't know the difference between "an application" and "a process". Please elaborate.
See, every Windows box I use, the first thing I do is select "Launch folder windows as a separate process".
Otherwise, within a week, I'm wishing I had... when Explorer locks up for a minute or two because of a buggy USB drive or broken network share or just because I have "the wrong kind of icons".
It's for marketing not for actual sale. It allows M$ to stand up and say what a wonderful product windows is starting at only $50 (or whatever). It doesn't matter if they never sell the $50 version.
I wonder if multiple instances of the same app count as one or many towards the limit. Because with Chrome opening each tab as a separate process, things could get very interesting indeed. Chrome only shows up once under Applications in Task Manager but multiple times under Processes. Background applications show up only under Processes and they've already said they'll count those. At this stage I guess it could go either way.
GENERATION 25: If you haven't yet, copy this into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. (Social experiment)
Sounds fine if all my apps run in a single browser. Just another reason not to buy MS apps.
Women don't want to hear what you think. Women want to hear what they think, in a deeper voice.
How are they defining an application? What exactly is their metric?
1 window == 1 app (unlikely, as it seems to be able to also involve things that normally run in the background)?
1 process == 1 app (maybe 3 processes with UID=n, since we all know windows has at least 5 major processes being run by SYSTEM)?
1 thread == 1 app (probably not)?
50 java programs opened in the web browser = 1 app (reductio ad absurdum)?
How about Linux running in a virtual machine (nor unreasonable)?
Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
In other news - a new Starter Car was introduced by Ford. It has 2 gears and can only manage 30mph but a spokesman said "when drivers learn the ins and outs of driving they can upgrade to a more powerful version - which can do 60!"
Oh please.
A computer is a tool - you expect it to have certain fundamental abilities and since we're not in 1980 running DOS computers are expected to be able to run as many apps and services as memory and CPU allow.
This will be edition for third world countries against the price argument of open source OS. With 10$ edition the price will be no more a factor for large organizations like schools and government agencies to adopt GNU/Linux over Windows.
What?
An OS that actively limits the number of concurrent running apps? This isn't a phrase I really ever use online but; that's just fucking retarded!
On the up side it'll give Linux/Apple etc. a neat little advertising slogan: "This OS can run more apps than Windows can"
To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
Thunderbird, Firefox, Word, VMware VI Client, nLite and I'm guessing Windows Update jumps in here and there.
Women don't want to hear what you think. Women want to hear what they think, in a deeper voice.
So as long this is not sold in west it's not a problem? I live in ultra poor country and I find this quite irritating.
Don't be silly. I'm sure the GP doesn't believe in global warming any more than he believes in evolution.
You know what's NOT an application? Google Docs, Gmail, YouTube, Lala, Napster website, AOL Radio
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
the company claims most users wouldn't be affected by the limit. 'We ran a study which suggested that the average consumer has open just over two applications
Mathematically, I think MS is right.
If the average user has open just over two applications, and 1/3 of users have open only one application, that means that 2/3 use three or more concurrent apps. But most of those are using three, and only a small portion are using more than three. The three app limit may end up affecting less than 1/4 of their users.
So, they have done their math. They are probably right about the numbers. Does that mean they should place artificial barriers to cap 1/4 of their users?
As a fairly disinterested party, I say, "Go for it MS!" If this ends up biting into their bottom line, I don't care much. If it results in people being trained to close some windows before they open others, I don't care much. If it leads some vendors to sue MS because their apps are discriminated against while others aren't, I don't care much. If it leads 5% of Windows users to quit using Windows, well that might be interesting.
Meanwhile, it allows MS to focus on certain optimizations for desktops. And it allows everyone else to see much of the results. So everyone else can choose to make similar optimizations, or not.
It also opens up huge discussions of processes vs threads vs sub-processes. What exactly constitutes and application. If my app opens a separate process for printing, will that get blocked? Do I have to include logic to look for headspace before I spawn something in my app, and provide a graceful explanation if there isn't room? Why does RDP not count as an app, but VNC does? Clearly, a virtual server counts as an app, but what about the client os? What about the apps running in the client os? And what if Windows is the client os on a different host os? While Windows may not detect the apps in the host os, are you technically violating the license?
Oh the hours of pointless debate and discussion. This is going to be great!
I have 16 windows listed in alt-tab mode, 11 distinct applications with visible windows, 40 processes. That's below average for me - email, IM, media player, browser, text editor and console are running almost all the time.
If these applications include background things like instant messengers and email clients, I would run into the limit three times over before my desktop even finished loading. This is ridiculous.
Except that XP is the last Windows I'll ever use anyway, and I'll be switching to Ubuntu as soon as XP becomes impractical.
A fascinating read sir.. sadly I am confused as to the relation this has to windows 7.
BTw I am going to put your entry on my blog.
Who should a credit?
Charles Krauthammer, in The Washington Post, Feb 6 2009
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/05/AR2009020502766_pf.html
-- "Broadly speaking, the short words are the best, and the old words best of all."
Ok, I am a LINUX user and I HATE Microsoft but what I hate more is shoddy journalism and being forced to defend Microsoft when they make a decision to screw people. First of all most NET BOOK users, and home users in general, probably don't use more than three applications at a time but most windows users probably have between 8 and 15 applications open at a time. Most windows users, you have to remember, are businesses. I have three (Linux) computers at home and it is rare for me to have more than about three applications open at a time but at work I have about 21 applications open all day long. So even if I have all 3 of my home computers all running 3 applications I still am running less than half the applications I run at work. That is the truth of the apparent inconsistency (Microsoft says most users only run about 3 applications and 70% of Windows users run 15 or more applications) this blurb us trying to attack.
How long before they go back to that model?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm not exactly a normal user, granted. However, I have 5 apps open right now, and I only just turned my computer on when I woke up. I predict this starter edition will go over exactly as well as the previous windows starter editions. i.e., it will be non-existent in the U.S., and ignored overseas in favor of a $5 pirated ultimate edition.
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
I knew that knowing octal would come in handy!
If the limit does not include multiple instances of the same program, this OS could be usable(but barely). The question is what are people going to have as a minimum? Most likely an IM program and a web browser. That means people are really limited to one additional app. Will flash count as an additional app, java, toolbars, download managers, etc? If any of those things count, this is probably a two app system, if not one. If Microsoft is going to give exemption to virus scanners, they are probably going to be sued by other app makers who make apps that run as background helper applications. I don't think google is going to like the fact that their desktop search is going to be an app counted against the limit. Plus manufacturers will not be able to load these things up with promotional software. I just don't see this version ending well in the courts because Microsoft is choosing which apps get to be exempt to the limit.
I gotta start thinking about a Mac...
The article poster is incorrect and basically talking rubbish.
Windows 7 Starter Edition is simply the next version of "Vista Starter Edition". This is a version of Windows for 3rd world/developing countries to run on old/recycled computers, or possibly OLPC type laptops. You won't find it on any netbooks sold in the Europe or the US. In fact it will probably impossible to purchase it in these areas (as it was to try and purchase Vista Starter Edition).
the thing keeping virtualization from taking off is that windows is not cheap. But with a starter edition it could be made cheap.
Microsoft will just include 'starter edition may not be virtualized' in their EULA and enforce it with an army of lawyers.
That may reduce usability a bit...
If it didn't affect users then there'd be no reason to implement such a limit. It obviously affects users and forces them to buy a more expensive version of what is essentially the exact same program, while allowing Microsoft to still claim how cheap Windows is.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Another win for Linux in this case. Although, I'd like to see a citation. What a terrible decision, if it is true.
Disclaimer: This post makes the assumption that Windows7 sh!t version really is planned to exist and really will limit you to 3 open apps.
It's 2009. In theory we're making "progress" with technology. The basic function of an OS is to provide a standard framework on which programs can run. All the fancy UI tweaks, audio and video nonsense, bla bla bla is extra. You're going to give them all the extras but limit the basic, core functionality of your software. Really, I don't understand why we need multiple versions of the OS to begin with. If you want to have add-on software...well SELL THAT - separately. Everyone buys W7 for whatever (reasonable) price. Sell an add-on pack that includes...well whatever other crap you want to consider value-add. This way if someone buys a computer and later on decides they need XYZ functionality they can just buy that and not have to reinstall (or hack) windows.
I suppose my underlying point is that it's way past time for an OS to be transparant to the end user. Give them extra software and capability if you want, but no user should need to worry about "oh noes, did I get the right windoez version? Is it going to stop my computer from doing cool things?" when a computer is delivered to their house.
Hey, car analogy! It's a 2009 Ferrari with a 1995 geo metro engine. Except even drug addicted rock stars crash ferrari's less often than windows and vista/W7 are more akin to a UPS delivery truck with fancy decals on the side. Big, ugly, and slow with valuable but hidden/inaccessible content and a fancy look on the outside disguising it all.
Oh, and 3 programs excluding AV? Ok, so let's also exempt anti-spyware, firewall, and disc encryption tools. I run at least 2 chat client, MSIE, P2P (closing and restarting screws up xfers too), webcam program that insists on coming up, solitare or other games...
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
A Microsoft study has shown that gamers seldom use all keyboard keys; and thus, Microsoft will release Windows 7 Gamers Edition, which will only support the following keys:
Users will still be able to spray their logo.
What they need is Windows 7 Solitaire edition which only runs Solitaire, this would probably satisfy a good 75% of users.
This is like being granted three wishes, on the third wish you ask for more wishes.
For my third app, I would run VmWare running another copy of Windows 7. Which would now let me run THREE MORE APPS. whoo hoo.
And for the third app inside VmWare, guess what !
I see many replies to this post arguing that this is a version 'for developing countries' and we don't need to worry about it.
Usual applications open: browser, mail client, im client (maybe more than one, like msn + skype), media player.
Why should a user from developing country be different?
"Reading that line, you're automagically accepting this EULA"
Winmagedon?
For the emerging OEM markets
http://www.microsoft.com/latam/windowsxp/starter/
This has nothing to do with technical restrictions. The problem is that Microsoft needs to be able to sell Windows at a price point that is suitable for nations with lots of poor people.
Take Thailand for instance -- it was actually that country's government that approached Microsoft back in 2003 and said, "please help us get computers to our poor people", and XP Starter Edition was created as a result. A lot of people in Thailand can't even begin to dream of the kind of power we take for granted with a modern Macbook, Latitude or Thinkpad. If they're lucky, they'll be able to get their hands on something of a 2000 or 2001 vintage. These aren't power-users with multi-megabit broadband and iPhones... these are people who want to do utterly basic things with a computer.
What would happen if Microsoft were to start selling Vista Starter Edition for 1,000 baht**? That's about $30 USD right now, which goes a long way in upcountry Thailand (you can eat very well there for 50 baht a day). People may be willing to pay that, but they wouldn't be willing to pay 3,000 baht** for Vista Home Basic, especially if they don't actually have a computer that can take advantage of all the extra features and ability to run more apps.
So, then, you wonder why they don't just offer Vista Home Premium in Thailand for 1,000 baht, so that it more closely reflects the price point vs. average income that you'd see it at in Western countries? The problem, of course, is that you'd end up getting a whole pile of shady operators who'd buy up legit copies of an uncrippled Vista Starter in Thailand, apply the English user interface pack to it, then sell them in the United States for a fraction of what Microsoft is asking for Vista Home Basic, and they'd make a big profit, and Microsoft would lose the sale.
That's why Microsoft makes Starter Edition both very cheap by Western standards, but generally unpalatable for that market, which (as we see here on Slashdot) balks at these kinds of restrictions.
Finally, I suspect this whole thing about using Windows 7 Starter Edition on Netbooks in first-world countries is bupkiss. By the time Windows 7 comes out towards the end of the year, Netbooks will have evolved enough in power and storage that they should be able to run Windows 7 Home Premium without any difficulty.
(** these are the actual prices)
So ya... I've got 5 apps running right now and all I'm doing is reading ./!!!
Thunderbird, Firefox, KTorrent, Kopete, Skype
Not to mention *NIX's plethora of background processes.
...Had this been an actual emergency, we would have fled in terror, and you would not have been informed.
I'm sure nobody would need 3 applications ?
2 would be plenty ...
BitTorrent (to download a pirate copy) .torrent file required)
Browser (to find the
A buck says that within 3 days of release, there's already a patch or walkthrough to change it to allow unlimited apps. Voila, cheap pro-version.
Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
What would actually be nice to see is those "Integral parts of the OS" be changed to classifications rather than a specific program. The end result would be you have 4 "integral" programs, 2 background, and 3 whatever you want programs giving you a total of 7 concurrent programs. Of course "Office", "IM", "Internet", and "Media" will be MS Office, MSN, IE, and WMP by default, AV will be empty, Malware protection will be Defender by default, and you're left with 3 whatevers. If starter was changed to act like this, which I hope it is forced to by the EU, I'll be opting for this edition. Outside of my fav4 I don't use much else. They could even try to lock you into those 4 for a period of time to make their investment, or lack thereof, mean something.
Perhaps this is straight out of the Department of the Bleeding Obvious, but I can't be the only one thinking that Microsoft proposes to actually charge money for an operating system intentionally broken so that it only runs three applications at a time. Meanwhile, if I install Ubuntu (just to pick a distro), it's free and I can run whatever I want, as much as a I want?
Is that what I'm reading here?
It is?
Oh, okay, just checking...
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***
Limiting Windows to running three concurrent programs would be like Microsoft taking careful aim, and shooting themselves in the face.
Who in the right mind would pay for something this stupid?
How will this be technically possible? What about programs that fork of worker processes in the background?
The whole idea is impractical, and extremely unlikely.
Well, to be fair there is some good use for a three app limit windows, and it's called something like "Public Access Thin Clients" or something. The small thin clients that can run like a browser and noting else. Or just displays a map that you can zoom in and around on, or just hooks up to an SQL database or similar to find stuff for you. Those kind of computers wouldn't at all suffer from this.
In fact they would likely gain from it, since it allows people to effectively lock down the computer a lot better. Just launch Browser/Useful tool, Firewall and Stupid App/Other useful tool, and watch people squirm as they try to open something else that they aren't allowed to do. It's sheer genius. However, it's not good for netbooks, certainly.
I sincerely hope they'll do such a stupid thing.
Please MS, do so!
Windows crashes and requires frequent restarts if you run more then 3 applications at a time since every release for the last... forever. Windows users are "trained" not to trust windows to run more then that. Which is why the average user doesn't even try. It's simply admitting the existence of current limitations not creating new ones. If anything I feel this is a more honest approach.
I can't remember reading a lot of upset articles when MS launched XP starter edition or Vista starter edition. What's the story, no computer in the developed world will be sold with starter edition installed, even the cheapest ones.
Well now, it appears that M$ is still up to the same dishonest, greasy, greedy, money grubbing tactics that they have used in the past. I really want to like M$ for some of the things they have done such as Office for instance which I feel is a good product. However, last night is a good example of using more than 2 applications. I was working in two instances of office plus I had AIM, yahoo, and firefox running. There is no way in hell I will pay more just operate more than two programs at a time. This is BS. It is about as honest as the caps that Charter and the other ISP's are trying to lay upon us. M$ and other greedy companies, go F&*&! yourselves!
And what relation do those have? I most assuredly believe in evolution, but we've only been plotting weather trends for a couple hundred years. Global warming and cooling operate on a much larger time scale. We haven't had the chance to see what the temperature is actually doing.
New for Windows 8 will be the "Time Sharing" version. This version of Windows will be cheaper yet, you will get 1 hour tiwce a day of computer time, you get to run 1 program at a time and get 10 megs of file storage. All for the low price of $29.99. If you wish to get more time on Windows, you can just call Micro$oft at 1-666-666-6666 and buy more time, they take Visa, Mastercard, American Express and PayPal.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
I wonder, which antivirus does it exclude? For instance, will it see AVG Free as an antivirus and exclude it from the 3 app limit, or as an application that counts? (How does it know?) Microsoft has been somewhat unfriendly to third-party antivirus companies in the past. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
the correct way to pronounce Starter is 'starter-rer-rer...click'. The last bit is more of a glottal stop.
Citations? Since when was slashdot wikipedia? Slashdot has never been known for verifiable facts, whereas wikipedia.... oh... wait..
Slashdot has also been known for not deleting posts except in cases of imminent legal action (e.g. a comment containing a copy of an entire Church of Scientology scripture). Wikipedia, on the other hand, tends to delete anything that doesn't have a citation.
Loosely translated:
It's so Microsoft can extort monopoly rents from developed countries by charging us much more than they'll actually willing to sell the product for.
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Studies have shown our customers only drive their cars less than a quarter of the day and thus only use less than the equivalent of 3 wheels over that time. As a result, this new pricing model should have no effect on them. When their driving habits require 4 wheels, they can upgrade to our more expensive premium models with all 4 wheels.
...when Internet Explorer up and installs spyware for you all by itself?
- Daniel Huckstep http://darkhax.com/
If Microsoft does something like this, I can't hold a grudge against the pirates. Then again it will probably be super easy to hack it to more than 3 apps.
Just to start my day I have bit torrent, chat client, Voip client, music player, web browser, and a text editor open. I also run video converters, word processors, video players, pdf views on an ongoing basis. If I need a distraction I'll pop up freecell and play for a few minutes. All on my netbook. If I had to only have 3 applications open at one time that would seriously impact how I use a computer and would soon become a major annoyance.
(Assuming that you couldn't get a pirated version to begin with)
Get computer, get windows, spam and hack US consumers for "ch33p vi4gara" and bank account #'s, get rich
Then use that to buy a bunch of machine guns.
Seems in some places this actually *is* a business strategy, although it likely doesn't involve actually purchasing windows.
I'm a PC support tech and I can guarantee that 99% of the users PC's I've looked at are running 10+ applications in the task tray at any given time. Most of my users are oblivious to the fact that these "hidden" applications are there so would be extremely confused when windows started giving them a hassle about extra processes. If Microsoft wants a guaranteed way to finish murdering their company after the VISTA debacle this would be it.
At the moment I have about eight icons in the systray. None of them require my attention all the time, but I need them to be there to interact with some software I use. Without the icons, there's no way to tell them to open up their window, or to quit, etc. But if they were visible all the time, that would mean space for one less taskbar button. The icon hiding function was the best improvement of the taskbar.
If the "average" user is running "just over two" applications at a time, what is the 2-std-dev number of applications? I'm guessing it's not 1. It seems like an application limit of 3 will frustrate people "just under half" of the time, but if they went with the mean + 2 standard deviations, they would only frustrate users about 5% of the time.
That might actually be worth the price-break for the end users, and provide a really simple way to distinguish the needs of the home-desktop user from the enterprise server user (it makes more sense than per-processor licensing, anyway).
-- 77IM
Student: Is it true that the foundation of the universe is paradox?
Master: Well, yes and no.
Oooooo... I just found one more reason to hate Microsoft and love Ubuntu all that much more.
From the Microsoft help site.
With additional language files, you can change the display language on your computer so that you can view wizards, dialog boxes, menus, Help topics, and other items in Windows in a different language.
There are two types of language files:
Windows Vista Multilingual User Interface Pack (MUI).âOE Windows Vista MUIs provide a translated version of most of the user interface. MUIs require a license to be used and are only available with Windows Vista Ultimate and Windows Vista Enterprise. If you are using Windows Vista Ultimate, you can download MUIs by using Windows Update. If you are using Windows Vista Enterprise, contact your system administrator for information about installing additional languages.
Windows Vista Language Interface Pack (LIP).âOE Windows Vista LIPs provide a translated version of the most widely used areas of the user interface. LIPs are freely available to download, and most LIPs can be installed and used on any edition of Windows Vista. Because not all of the user interface is translated, LIPs require at least one parent language. The parts of the user interface that are not translated into the LIP language are displayed in the parent language. When you download a LIP, you get the parent language requirements for that language. The parent language pack needs to be installed before the LIP can be installed. For more information, including a list of languages available for downloading, go to the Microsoft Local Language website.
MUIs and LIPs will only work on a genuine copy of Windows Vista.
So, what I get from this is that if you don't have Vista Ultimate, you don't get localization to the fullest extent they offer it.
How can you draw the line with licensing bullshit like this? Either you support your users, all of your users, fully or you don't.
This is a damn insult, there are several foreign students at the college I'm working at and if they buy a laptop with Vista sans Ultimate at the local best buy, and they're already struggling with costs and language barriers, now they have to buy a copy of Vista Ultimate or a version of Vista Home or whatever in their language.
I don't know to what extent any language is covered in LIPs versus MUIs, but to claim there is a technical or a legal difference at all is just disgusting.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
1) Charge for mouse clicks - the first 1,000 could be 'free' and then 10 clicks for a penny.
2) Charge extra for bigger displays. Why should all of that pixel real estate be 'free.'
3) Charge for the number of files 'managed' by the OS. The first 1,000 could be free and then a penny per file above that.
4) Charge for keystrokes. Obviously the users with the most key strokes are 'power' users who should pay more. Why should the 'light' users have to pay for the power users.
5) Charge by the hour when Windows is active. Say ten cents per hour with an automatic discount for reboots caused by system failures.
These are just a few ideas for you folks at Microsoft. If you want to use them, just send the money to me at the usual place.
Sure, but that precise behaviour happens all over the world in practically every industry. You set a price based on what a local market will bear, not based on a single world-wide price. There's just too much variance in incomes and the cost of doing business, to do it any other way.
Case in point, the United Kingdom -- Brits always complain that everything is more expensive than in the United States, but what they don't appreciate is that they also generally make more money and have lower expenses than a typical American that does the same work.
Hey guys why is any one surprised, they have done it before they will do it again
IT:This latest version of Windows 7 is so unstable it will only run three applications before crashing. Marketing: Relax we'll box it up and just call it 'Starter Edition' *Winks*
ya can get a lot a big macs for the price a a machine gun. Let all the other noobs do the fighting im hungry...
Minor quibble -- kanji is the Japanese word for Chinese characters, and Japanese really only makes use of ~2,500 kanji or so on a regular basis, with a total lexicon of maybe ~5,500. If you mean Chinese characters as used in Korean, say hanja. If you mean Chinese characters as used in Chinese, say hanzi. (Naturally, all three words are 'spelled' the same way when using Chinese characters.)
That aside, if you're at all interested about typing in Chinese, Japanese, Korean, or various other non-Latin-based scripts, look up "input method editor" or "IME" on Google. I'm a Japanese-English translator by trade, and I've also studied some Chinese and Korean. I routinely have to type in at least one of these non-Latin scripts, using my stock-standard US keyboard. The IME is programmed to read in certain Latin character combinations and convert these into the appropriate script, offering alternates when these exist.
So say I activate the Japanese IME here in MS Word and type in "seikou" and hit the space bar -- I get a drop-down showing 23 different possible kanji renderings for this reading, together with hiragana and katakana. Well-programmed IMEs also allow for new renderings to be added in addition to the built-in dictionaries.
The sheer number of characters required, and the ridiculously huge keyboards needed to input these in any hardware-based solution, is precisely why computers took so much longer to gain market penetration in China, Korea, and Japan (among other countries). It wasn't until the software capabilities caught up to the linguistic and practical realities that widespread local-language computer usage was feasible.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
User maintains more than a dozen sockpuppet accounts on Slashdot.
Quote from the fact sheet:
"Simplified task management. With Windows XP Starter Edition, first-time home PC users can have up to three programs and three windows per program running concurrently. Further simplification of the operating system includes setting a maximum display resolution of 1024x768 and no support for PC-to-PC home networking, sharing printers across a network or more advanced features such as the ability to establish multiple user accounts on a single PC."
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/newsroom/winxp/WinXPStarterFS.mspx
This is a huge step forward, previous versions of windows might run dozens of viruses, this version will only run two of them, a great reduction in virus activity.
Nullius in verba
After all, to get paid thousands of dollars per week to sit around dreaming up new ways to be an asshole to people...
Where do I sign up?
I agree that when Starter was just for third world countries that it was basically a way to get something from users that were going to use a bootleg copy of Windows, but thanks to Netbooks folks in the first world are going to be offered the Starter edition.
I suppose if it is a choice between a crippled version of Windows or bootleg version of a full version, then I suspect the latter will be popular.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Bill wants to charge you BY THE APP - since Microsoft wants to move to subscription licensing and online cloud and all that crap eventually.
So now they're getting people used to paying for a limited number of open apps at a time.
It's ridiculous. And of course, Bill thinks he can screw over the Third World this way and screw Linux at the same time.
Really charitable guy, Bill - like his stock laundering "Foundation".
Major asshole is the best description.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Windows 3.11 for workgroups is from the days when Microsoft didn't believe in the internet.
...or calculators. Try calculating 3.11 - 3.10 in any pre-Win95 version of the Windows calculator. No, it's not a "display issue" as Microsoft tried to claim: just multiply the result by 100.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I would probably get away with only having two *active* applications most of the time. But I usually start around 5 just after bootup. 3 of these don't really have to be active all the time. If they just got deactivated while I am not using them but were available without any startup time when I need them. e.g. I open a text editor and load a file to look something up. Then I go back to whatever I was doing before. Later on, I want to look at the same file again, so I just leave it open in the editor. If I could just deactivate that editor instance, so it would not take up any memory or consume cpu cycles, that would be fine with me. I just don't want to start it and open the bloody file again, once I already did that.
"Microsoft says the restriction is designed to ensure that users get the best possible performance from limited netbook hardware."
I'm calling BS on this one. If I'm using a netbook and it's feeling bogged down, I'll just close whichever app I feel is the least important. Firefox bogging down? I'll close Thunderbird.
So the lowest edition of Windows 7 is going to be quite rare; they'll instead steer everyone towards a higher edition. This sounds like an old auto industry trick. Go to your local Honda dealer and try to get a Civic DX. I guarantee you the dealer will try to strongarm you into a higher trim level, and if you insist on the lowest, they'll have to order it, since they won't have any on hand.
Of course, this could also be the kiss of death for Windows coming with netbooks altogether.
This is assuming that Windows 7 Starter edition is targeting the mainstream netbook markets, so that this will "drive up costs"-- which it isn't, really. Starter Edition is created with the hope that the Chinese might someday pay for software. Since that's probably not going to happen, it doesn't seem like a really serious intiative.
For most readers of slashdot, this version of windows will not be available for purchase, so it's really a non-issue. To pretend that all Windows pricing is somehow based on the Starter price but offering the ultimate features is a false premise. In reality, this is a system limited to basically offer an excuse to charge as little for it as possible. Their excuse to charge less is to offer less, and to charge more is to offer more- like any other product.
So let's look at what's really happening here:
Netbooks will Run Windows 7 Basic, probably-- maybe Home Premium on the higher end. That's it. End of story. Starter edition is not really on the table. Some sales guys are probably just selling it up without a full understanding of the strategy. They're mostly likely on targeting it for netbooks in third world countries, like OLPC-like initiatives.
Its so nice to see Microsoft's continued attempts to promote Linux and alienate their own userbase by removing usability and adding artificial limitations like DRM and now this to their biggest product.
I can imagine that any users getting a work-issued laptop with this on it will think there's a bug or something wrong with Windows 7 when they try to open more than 3 apps. They probably won't understand the whole notion of an intended marketing limitation, especially as they're already well used to being able to open as many apps as they like with every older version of Windows.
This latest move will make Linux (and even XP) look even more like an attractive alternative to 'upgrading' (translation: downgrading) to Windows 7.
Twitter, twitter, twitter. *Nobody* is attacking Linux or the command line here, so there's nothing to defend against. The point is that Linux doesn't *require* you to use the command line. The fact that you *can* is one thing that makes it great, but the fact that you don't *have* to is an important factor in introducing it to new people.
Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
Well there goes Microsoft's chance on getting Windows 7 onto the netbook. OEMs will recieve complaints filling up their help desk lines over the app limit. The help desk will explain the old "its not a bug its a feature" and the user will ask for a refund claiming they didin't know about the app limit claiming to be ripped off. OEM's lose business and start moving to Home Basic forcing the price of netbooks up, OEMs that sell Linux versions will also bump up their prices too (so it will be cheaper but not by much) and netbooks will lose their appeal. Remember the appeal was they were cheap
Make SELinux enforcing again!
We ran a study telling you that we can cripple our product and charge extra for an un-crippled version. Don't worry, statistics show that most people won't notice.
Where do you want to go today? We would love to make you pay.
Whats the big deal? DOS was limited to one!
And their motto? See colon enter>
I agree. First poster should have pointed out that we are currently witnessing Oval Office 2009, Starter Edition, and that user 'Obama' has open way more applications than just two, which will cost quite some extra charge.
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
b) actually I think sin was defaulting it to 'enabled', more than including it.
Just last night I was watching my 12-year-old son running media player, while browsing the web looking for cool wallpapers, while writing a story, while downloading a video, while playing othello, while having an IM window open...and I noticed a few apps minimized... Of course, this was on my Ubuntu machine, but I think my 8-year-old had 5 or 6 things running on his Acer laptop running Vista. If they had an OS than would only run 3 apps at a time, they would think it was broken (they thought Windows 2000 was broken for other reasons... no complaints about XP, though, and Vista's been okay since the first Service Patch, but they like Ubuntu the best -- they say it's a lot like XP(!?!)). I've never understood the strategy of marketing a crappy, crippled, "toy" OS, so that one can charge money for it with the rationale that their real OS is so much more expensive. It's especially puzzling when one considers that one can get a very powerful professional OS for free, with a bunch of great free applications. Does Microsoft have a human factors department? I guess they have gotten away with these strategies for so long, they've forgotten how to develop something that people really want.
and charge for cloud extended services (like backing/restoreing up data, email etc...)
'We ran a study which suggested that the average consumer has open just over two applications [at any time].'
Microsoft obviously hasn't seen my system tray.
I know this is taking Microsoft's side, on Slashdot, but ffs people, it's the Starter Edition, which they will not sell in developed countries.
But hell, whatever, rage on with your inane arguements about how Microsoft is silly for making a super-basic version of Windows for the developing areas of the world. This is slashdot. A valid reason to be pissed at Microsoft never mattered in the first place.
- An anonymous coward who's installing Ubuntu at the moment anyway
i was going to keep XP around for gaming and such, but now i'm going to pirate windows 7 out of pure spite.
And what relation do those have? I most assuredly believe in global warming, but we've only been plotting evolutionary trends for a couple hundred years. Evolution operates on a much larger time scale. We haven't had the chance to see what evolution is actually doing.
> We would expect the limit of three applications wouldn't affect very many people.'
but...
> 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time."
I'm not sure I buy either of those statements outright -- the truth is probably somewhere in between. Nonetheless, if I had to pick between the two, the former seems closer to reality than the latter. There is no way on earth anywhere near 70% of Windows users have 8+ windows open on a typical day. 70% of Linux users, sure, and maybe even higher. 30% of Windows users, possibly. But more than half of Windows users? Not in this universe.
I might believe that 70% of Windows users have 8+ *programs* running at any given time, but only if you count programs that generally run with no open windows. Gratuitous OEM-bundled system-tray weather doodads of dubious quality, and their ilk; instant messaging clients that run all the time even though they're almost never needed (not least the one that comes bundled with the operating system, not to mention the stupid MySpace one); antivirus (which, however, the summary specifically says is excluded from the count); anti-spyware/anti-adware, or in many cases the malware itself; that Nero thinggummy that the PC makers like to pre-install for no obvious reason, despite the fact that Windows Explorer has adequate CD-RW support built in; preloaders for stuff NOBODY uses frequently enough to actually want it preloaded at system start (*cough* Adobe Reader); update-checkers for stuff that almost nobody cares whether it's up to date or not (such as the JVM), which for added bonus points generally go ahead and run even if you're in a limited account; the list goes on and on. If these sorts of things count toward the total, I kind of hope Windows Starter *does* take off, just to call attention to the fact that users don't really need all that dross and flotsam running all the time.
But as far as actual windows open at once, my observation of Windows users suggests that a *LOT* of them (possibly not the majority, but almost certainly more than 30%) never go beyond two window at a time except by mistake, such as when a link on a website opens a new window -- and when it does happen, they get confused. And the only way they get two windows open at once is if one of them is the My Documents window and they double-click something in it that opens in another window, in which case most of them are not aware that the My Documents window is still open in the background.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Microsoft lives for us to use IE, exchange, Office... This move my Microsoft does not surprise me. What normally happens is that OEMs such as HP and Sony only support the lowest and the largest of the configurations, so that users purchasing smaller machines will only be able to obtain the Home Basic version and will not be able to upgrade unless the OEM supports all the versions. In my recent observations, they don't and therefore people will have to live with the application limits and they will hate it every day. This will increase the resentment against Microsoft but this will not hurt Microsoft much because of their monopoly position. Despite decades of behavior hurting the users, they have no reason to change their attitude or behavior, and I expect they will continue to profit at our expense for quite some time.
I sincerely hope Apple doesn't follow their example and do the same to MacOS. That would be very depressing, although Apple would support all their own versions, and upgrading would be possible. HP and Sony users (all OEMs actually) should beware and should probably not buy machine that come with Home Basic. This will depress the netbook market just as economy of scale was just about to do something nice for us after all these years.
I meant to say people should avoid buying OEM version coming with Starter Edition, not Home Basic. My bad.
Not counting Firefox, I'm currently running 6 applications. And I'm not even doing anything!
I can't even imagine how many I have running when I'm actually doing something.
This just seems like a way of ensuring that nobody will buy the version of Seven that already nobody was going to buy.
I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I soar...
-Lucy-
Actually, one of the functions that the XP/Vista Starter and 7 Basic are very likely to serve (in emerging markets that are eager to go legal, presumably) is the locked down workstation option, where users shouldn't be able to run a large amount of _applications_ anyway, or when just one application is required for a specific task. These places are public or with a large number of (mostly clueless and then some very clever) users: the school/Internet café/library/workplace; basically anything that requires low maintenance, durability and limitations on users.
Microsoft may possibly be taking the long shot by estimating that these target groups will have a sufficiently secure system running for about a decade or so -- or in about a decade or so, when hardware will be sufficiently cheap to run all of that in a non-home environment.
It's also good for such small target groups that want to run low on maintenance.