Domain: joystiq.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to joystiq.com.
Comments · 637
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Fantasia/Grey Goo
Remember the recent Second Life Grey Goo incident?
I see Disney's MMORPG crumbling under a flood of magical fantasia broomsticks -
Re:No real surprise...
Can't speak for Americans, but over here in the UK the Wii is £180, whereas the PS3 is going to be £425. It'd take a lot more than "one serious price cut" for the PS3 to compete with the Wii, even assuming Nintendo never cut the price of the Wii.
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Re:This is news because...
PS3's are not selling out any more.
Evidence:
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/nikkei/nikkei-on-big- ds-and-wii-sales-slow-ps3-sales-226834.php
http://www.unscripted360.com/2006/12/28/playstatio n-3-sitting-not-selling/
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/plenty-o-ps3s-but -no-takers-225271.php
http://www.techimo.com/forum/t180097.html
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162141.html
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps3-available-on -bestbuy-com-still/ -
Wiimote? Maybe not yet...
joystiq is saying the Wiimote didn't win either, but that the D-pad was the lauded innovation? What about the thumb-stick?
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/09/oops-sony-declar es-sixaxis-emmy-emmys-say-uh-uh/
Scientific progress goes *boink!* -
Re:1 million shipped
Given that the PS3 is almost universally sold out, the difference is probably negligible. It is still very uncommon to see a PS3 in stock. I doubt that you would find more than a couple stores in the whole country which have units from their daily shipments last until the next business day.
Except that's not true. Heck, my local Best Buy had 2 out on the display floor two days before that sale started, and each store was holding back 25 due to the advertisement's guarantee of a minimum of 25 units for the sale.
They aren't the only retailer that still has them in stock, too.
The Wii, on the other hand, is selling out as soon as it comes in everywhere here, a metropolitan area of 100,000 people. -
Re:pc version
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Wii is not getting the same games
That "number of game developers" was really just one.
Oh really?
Quoting:
"According to Game Informer, nearly every developer they talked to at X05 expressed difficulties fitting their launch titles onto a single disc."
To which Microsoft can reply, "Just use your Wii graphic assets, since you're still going to ship there on a DVD-9
To which EA will reply, have you not noticed that the games and control schemes going for the Wii are generally different? Or simply reply "fine then we're pulling Madden like we said". Microsoft is not the one in a position of strength here to make demands.
Sure the X-Men game was similar. But for every one of those you have games like SSX Blur that looks quite different, there are a number of upcoming games that take that approach since the system and controls are so different.
Besides, do you (or more specifically Microsoft) really want the head to head reviews where the XBox 360 graphics are on par with the Wii and the PS3 is scoring far higher visually? This is another aspect of the lower storage capacity I have been predicting, that after some time in head to head the 360 will look weaker graphically than the PS3 (even though it is not) exactly because textures are simplified, eliminated, or more greatly compressed. Why should the 360 developer and user suffer with a limitation on storage that is needless? -
Re:Wii doesn't win. PSP wins.
Fanboy? I guess you'd have to define the word. I have a PS2, a PS3 and a PSP and I like them all quite a lot. But I don't thing that's enough to be considered a "fanboy". Maybe it would be easier to tell you what I don't do that I often attribute to "fanboys". I don't mod stuff down simply because I disagree with it. I don't call the competitor's equipment and games "crap" if they're not to my taste, but otherwise high quality. I don't judge other equipment and games unless I've actually played them or something similar, and I clearly note it if it's the latter
Probably most importantly, I don't ignore the fact that others are having fun with competing equipment and I'm not afraid to mention the flaws I see in my own. I also don't try to make up how my flaws are actually virtues or find a single flaw with the competition and then declare it to be unfit to use.
I've seen this behavior in quite a lot of people who'd I'd label "fanboys". Curiously, I see these traits far more often in Apple and Nintendo supporters and less often in Linux, Microsoft and Sony supporters. I'm not sure why.
The guy in the great grandparent quote was talking about general popularity and then threw in Japanese popularity as "proof". It's a valid criticism to point out that that's misleading and popularity in Japan says little about popularity in the US. You went ahead and gave some reasons why quoting Japanese figures still has some validity.
I consider this all to be reasonable discussion, but notice that I got modded down for my part of it. That's what I consider to be fanboy activity. Someone out there was so unhappy that I was not boosting his favorite product, that he's actually trying to shut me up. I might chock this down to some kind of rogue modder, but sadly this has happened to me three or four times over the last week when speaking on this subject and about 25% of any posts that disagrees with a Mac feature also get this fate. Interestingly, I never get this if I find fault with Microsoft, Sony or Linux equipment or software.
About the NPD numbers. In addition to the November numbers you cited, NPD also reported these numbers as found on Joystiq.com. If this is accurate, the DS has sold 7.6 million and the PSP has sold 5.7 million from launch through Nov 1, 2006. Especially when you consider the DS got a 5 month head start, this data shows the PSP has been nicely competitive in the US.
I can't tell you if the DS is pulling ahead in November, the PSP is falling behind, or even if November is a blip that will reverse itself. I can tell you that the install base of PSPs vs DSs shows that about 43% of next-gen console buyers in the US have chosen to be PSP owners and presumably they knew of the DSs existence when they made that choice.
I can also tell you that citing 4 to 1 Japanese sales figures as an example of handheld preferences is an amazing distortion of the US facts. My guess is that no matter how accurate the numbers are for Japan, US DS fans would almost never quote them if the situation was reversed. They would point out, as I have, that it doesn't reflect the US market.
If you're interested in saying the DS is "winning" overall, then go for it. I'm sure Nintendo stockholders are quite happy with that news. But if you want to use those numbers to say that people like the DS better than the PSP, you might want to keep in mind that in the US, that's not a very big preference.
TW -
The "Real Winner" ... the DS
However, sales of the PS2 games were fairly strong, especially that rock guitar thing (forgot the name) and a number of other strong titles.
You mean Guitar Hero 2, which yes, was quite strong, along with other hit games such as Final Fantasy XII. The PS2 definately did very well this holiday season, but I'd have to say the big winner was the DS. Those darn things were often sold out just as much as the Wii was (I was looking for an extra copy myself). If you go looking around, you'll find sales numbers which reflect just how well that portable console did. Couple that with big news, such as Dragon Quest IX as a DS exclusive, and you've got the makings of yet another unstoppable Nintendo force in the handheld business.
Undoubtedly the success of the DS can translate to benefits to the Wii. It would be even greater if Nintendo were able to announce some neat pairing between the DS and the Wii, similar to what Sony has tried to do with the PS3 and PSP (only failing miserably, due to the relative unpopularity of both systems). -
Re:Kind of funny.
I'm not sure about the blurry texture statement, but the AI statement is true:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/29/assassins-creed- 360-has-superior-ai-says-ubisoft-producer/ -
Re:Suspect someone else is pushing here...
Actually, yes. People are faking Wiinjuries.
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Re:Oh, please.
I will not confess to know everything about that except that it happened, so do enlighten me.
Linky. At first they wanted to charge $50 to fix a product defect that was purely cosmetic; in the end I think they offered to simply replace affected models - although it took a lot of prodding, they did the right thing in the end.
Rayman comes to mind, that sequence with the cow/chain thing that makes you whirl the Wii remote over your head - that's just asking for trouble.
Not as long as you keep a firm grip on the Wiimote.
;) ...which is where we differ, but point taken.Did not Ars Technica claim that the "fix" actually didn't do a whole hell of a lot?
I'm not sure about the article you mentioned. I do know that it is a (truly) tiny # of affected televisions, and if it didn't affect you, really, what do you care? We're talking customer impressions and rewarding loyalty, as you said earlier. My understanding of the issue is that it is basically an artifact of incomplete HDTV implementations in the early days of selling those. Its comparable to the PAL issues in Nintendo's retro games lineup - not really their fault, an artifact of the 50-60Hz difference for those games, but still a bit tricky to fix.
And what does my disgust for a company that installed a root kit on people's PCs and then had the audacity to state the equivalent of "What's the big deal?" have to do with my support for a company that's replacing wrist straps when they don't have to?
Common mistake. Sony BMG is the company you are thinking of. You simply cannot address 'Sony' as a whole in that way. I know that sounds like a rabid justification but it is absolutely true. (A multi-headed hydra like Sony regularly sues itself.) Or to put it another way, I could say the Xbox sucks ass because Windows sucks ass. Doesn't make a lot of sense. But hey, do what you like. I stopped buying Sony BMG products ages ago. SCEA doesn't dick me around, and Nintendo doesn't dick me around, so I spend money on them. (Incidentally the newest thing I own is a DS; other than that I have no horse in this race, so to speak.)
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Supporting evidence - NPD PSP numbers
And while many think the PSP is a dismal flop, what people don't realize is that it's actually selling OK - it just looks like a flop next to the supernova that is the DS Lite.
I just thought I should provide supporting evidence for that assertion - From the NPD report:
Units:
DS, 918k.
PSP, 412k
See? A little under half of what the DS sold. Not nearly as many as the DS but also not an unmitigated disaster either - I'll bet you wish you made something that 412,000 people wanted enough to pay $200 for. That's enough units being sold that Sony does not have to think of cancling the PSP, just as Gamecube's third place standing in the last round of consoles did not mean Nintendo had to fold either. -
Joystiq had a followup to this...Nintendo pulled a strange about-face... relevant links to be found in the original post:
It's not every day that a major video game company tells you not to listen to what it says, but that's just what Nintendo did today. Yesterday, the company issued a press release trumpeting NPD sales figures that showed healthy Wii and DS sales. The release also promised "well more than a million" Wii systems would be on U.S. store shelves by the end of the year, despite what the release called "spot shortages in some locations."
Today, Nintendo issued a correction asking everyone to disregard the line about the million systems and the spot shortages. The company didn't offer any new projections for end-of-year domestic shipments, they just want us to know that the million unit target should go down the memory hole.
Given Nintendo's previous promise to ship four million systems worldwide by year's end, we find it hard to believe that not even a million of those system's would go to the world's largest video game market. So we have to wonder, does this retraction point to some Wii production problems that are slowing the planned deployment of the system?
Maybe Nintendo is just reapportioning it's limited supplies in light of crippling shortages in Europe, leaving the U.S. in the cold. Maybe the company just didn't want to tip its hand about regional distribution plans (although we think the damage has already been done if this is the case). Maybe Nintendo is scaling back Wii chatter in preparation for a planned merger with Apple (highly unlikely, but hey, anything is possible).
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Well, at least Nintendo is happy ...
"Convert those numbers into dollars and you're looking at one very fat and happy industry."
The only people we know for sure that's happy about all those consoles being moved is Nintendo.
*(1) Although, if you take console sales as an indirect indicator of software sales, then yes, the other guys would be happy too. More on this later
What we do know is this:
* Nintendo makes money on the Wii, right out of the gate.
* Nintendo makes money on each DS Lite sold.
* Sony's PS3 is losing $200-$300US (we don't exactly how much they're losing, but most analysts say about that range)
* Sony's PS2 hardware is profitable now.
* Microsoft was losing money on the Xbox360 at launch, but they've been working hard to reduce the cost to produce the 360, so it may be breaking even at this point. Only Microsoft knows.
So, Nintendo is certainly happy, Sony is happy PS2 still rakes it in but doesn't make up for PS3's enourmous costs, and Microsoft is happy to just be in the fight :)
*(1) Consoles moved means more software sales, which is where Microsoft and Sony plan to make their money back. (Nintendo makes money from selling ANYTHING with Nintendo on it, so we know they'll make money on software. They arguably make the most on software than any other single console game producer) Seems the internet believes Microsoft is enjoying a good software sales rate for their xbox360, they won't say of course. Meanwhile, Sony is just mum. Why? well, doesn't seem the attach rate for the PS3 is doing so hot in the US or Japan. So Sony's still far away from making money on their new system.
My point? The industry may or may not be happy, we don't know for sure, but we do know, Nintendo is happy with these numbers :)
PS WTF's with the 0.98 attach rate for PS3 in Japan?! That's amazing to me. I know lots of people are flipping these on ebay, but even in the land of the rising sun, people aren't buying it to play games. That's bad news. Japan's a huge Sony supporter. If they lose Japan, they're in trouble. -
Re:not authorized on my PC
The Burger King 360 games are lower price... 3.99.
Of course, there are lots of mitigating factors... they're tiny, low-development projects. Most of the code must have already existed in Blitz's back catalog. And you have to go into the store to get them, so it's not only advertising, they're a lure.
Other games may have advertising budgets that go back into the general fund. I suspect ad revenue from Splinter Cell basically goes into the general fund and out into development costs on new games. Anarchy Online is completely ad-supported, as are several other niche titles. America's Army is a free ad.
And with live arcade games being as popular as they are, you'll probably see average game prices going down quite a bit. And, most importantly to consumers, the discount curve should lower. I.E. a game will launch at 50, but will drop to 30 more quickly.
The money goes somewhere, even if not directly back to you. -
Alain, stop it.
When asked whether he'd agree that it's larger companies like EA which are driving bigger game budgets, Tascan replied, "I think a lot of [other companies] are spending even more money."
EA's Godfather cost well over $20 million for a primarily current-gen title, and he wants to blame the other companies?
Alain Tascan also claimed Gears of War had zero innovation, completely ignoring the active reload, and the best implementation of a cover system in games to date. How did he make such a mistake? According to him, he never played Gears of War, so that might have something to do with it.
Why would Tascan make such ridiculous comments? Why would Ken Kutaragi make them? It's great gaming press, and it gets people to focus on your company and your games. EA needs someone to spout off occasionally (Sony's doing okay). But here's a question for Tascan: how well did that work out for Kutaragi? -
Re:I find that amusing
I wouldn't agree that it will take a PS4 to kill off the PS line- there's a lot of press out in all media that's already declaring the Wii as the winner over the PS3...
And vice versa if you look around such as this one which was referenced in What Analysts Will Be Buying For Christmas
...citing the early sales numbers...
Both the PS3 and the Wii have sold out all available units, with the Wii actually having a slightly longer average shelf life than the PS3 (probably due to supply rather than actual demand).
the $600 price tag is daunting... there's still a perceived price ceiling with consoles that the 360 seemed to actually push against, and Sony has jumped completely over.
This again is based on misleading information. No previously high priced console had a marketed predecessor let alone a market dominant one, which should only be seen to mean that there is a price ceiling for entry into the console market, which is why no respectable analyst has mentioned the price ceiling issue. Second in real/relative cost the PS3 is cheaper than any of the examples commonly used to illustrate the price ceiling.
The average person... looks at a game console, sees a $600 price tag,
... then look next door, see a $400 or a $250 price tagOr the average person looks at High Definition Video players and sees $1000 price tag, then looks next door and sees $500 or $600, plus gets the ability to play the most extensive line up of video games currently available.
...and the semi-negative press about the PS3 being mainly for "true gamers" with HDTV's, and I would expect Sony's market share to fall considerably.
The HDTV market share is rising and a significant rate and will continue to do so until it is the dominant format. There is no doubt in anyones mind that HDTV will eventually be the dominant format. As the HDTV market share increases so will the desire for peripherals capable of High Definition output. Secondly the difference between "true gamers" and casual gamers shrinks every year, but that is just an opinion (from a casual gamer) so take it how ever you like.
...the explosive sales of DSs among non-gaming adults and the relative failure of the PSP...
If you consider selling 1 million more units a failure, or if you prefer 8% less in world wide sales, let alone the fact that the PSP is the 36th and 40th best seller in Amazon's computer & video games category (all be it well behind the DS, but certainly not a failure). The Idea that the PSP is a failure is yet another fallacy which is commonly passed.
And worse-case scenario for Sony, if they lose enough in system sales, and don't recoup the amount, the entire company may fail or at least downsize drastically, considering the problems they've had in other areas, such as laptop batteries and digital cameras
Beyond my previous comments, which fairly debunk the argument, I would like someone to give me examples of a $72 Billion in revenue company (30th world wide), or even close, that has failed catastrophically without the involvement of illegal activity. I mean look how bad the Valdez global catastrophe did to Exxon (#1 rank, $370 billion in revenue company).
It's nice to think that a company we don't like is going to fail or if our preferred manufacture and products ar -
Re: impressed with Nintendo
In its price range, I think the Wii is a healthy addition to have along with a 360 or PS3, but not so much a direct competitor to them among the 18+ crowd.
Well yeah, exactly. With the Wii being sold at a price point that is already profitable, I don't think Nintendo is in a position that it has to give a crap if you buy a Wii in addition to something else. Whereas the big offsetting factor for consoles that lose money is that you'll buy the games, you'll buy the online services, and so on. In the world of XBox, for example, since they need the revenue from the ongoing purchase of games and services just to make back their losses and turn a profit, it has to matter to them if you also buy a Wii because that means you have less dollars to spend on their own add-on service(s) and games.
But if every Wii turns a profit, then those add-on services they sell are gravy, not vital tactics to "winning". From the point of view of Nintendo, I'd argue that the fact that you (or others) consider the Wii a "healthy addition" is wonderful for Nintendo because they'll still make a profit even if you only see it as an addition to the more...serious console purchase. But from the point of view of Sony and MS, buying that "additional system" is totally anathema.
Every dollar you spend on Wii is a dollar not spent on something they desperately need to sell you to make up the cash they're giving away with that loss leader HD system they sold you.
Intriguingly, in the Nintendo model, for all the fluffy marketing talk about gameplay and revolution, the business side doesn't care one tiny little bit what your heart feels about the Wii, as long as you buy one. Insofar as you love it and give them more gravy, they do not have to care. Other than whatever enjoyment they get in making more money.
Whereas for the other two--for all the talk about the game platforms as hardcore, better, more technically accomplished true blue and the perception of their philosophies as supposedly more mature, hard nosed, cutthroat and, let's be honest, American and masculine--the other two need you, yes you, to love them; need you to believe it in your heartso that you never hesitate to keep your dollars right there, with them, where they are more needed and rightfully belong.
Nintendo's little faerie machine liberates the more old-fashioned, hard-nosed business model from messy sticky feelings and gives it a very pretty black bottom line to look at. Is the Wii really a limp wristed sissybox for weirdo degenerates? Or the phalanx of a 21st century global corporate Captain Of Industry?
And let us not set aside that tone in which the Wii is described by detractors--throwing around terms that first degrade homosexuality and/or femininity, then apply those degraded conceptualizations to the Wii in contrast to the normative (generally, heterosexual male) features of the other platforms. There's a lot of masculine defensiveness tied up in the XBox and PS3.
Which one is a more healthy view? In the context of critiquing a game you also attack women and homosexuals in order to defend systems whose makers ultimately need you to fall in love with them? (or to be fair to the Joystiq article linked above, your roommate, who is not so much "critiquing" as standing in for a fairly wide swath of the gaming community) Or you make a game system that makes money and, by virtue of a neutrally functioning business model doesn't give a shit if you're straight, gay, male, female, young or old? Whose word of mouth representatives can depend less on diminishment of something or someone else.
If I owned stock in Sony and MS I'd be forced to ask, are you putting our money into a product that depends on how people feel in order for you to actually make money on it? And then are
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Re:So ... What's next
Yes, Opera is free. Free as Opera for a desktop, free as Opera Mini for a mobile.
But it is not free for other devices like the DS, and it's not going to be free for the Wii either.
As the article I linked to above states, although Nintendo have said that they'll be giving Opera away for free until June 2007, they have also said that this would be a temporary promotion and that from July you will have to purchase it using Wii points.
I therefore stand by my original comment - now that it has been revealed that a reduced-functionality Opera is already built in to the Wii, perhaps some post-June adopters will be happy to avoid buying Opera by setting up their router to hijack the page requests and build their own web browsing interface. I guess that will depend on how much of a geek they are, and how much Opera Wii will cost. -
Re:I miss game humor
Chet and Erik of Old Man Murray fame have been picked up by Valve Software to write for their upcoming game, Portal. Should be interesting to see if they can make a game as funny as OMM used to be.
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Re:Prioritized networks?
File sizes are listed in the marketplace, if you can get some time on a US 360. Otherwise, there's a few screenshots here. An example: V for Vendetta is 6.1GB, 720P.
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Re:Game Police
BAN on in-game Gay Guilds http://www.boingboing.net/2006/02/07/ban_on_gayfr
i endly_g.html http://www.joystiq.com/2006/01/31/blizzard-vs-gaym ers-are-other-minorities-next/ http://news.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,39029682,492491 57,00.htm http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060207-6129 .html In case you are still reading impaired, notice the word 'BAN' in all those article titles? Notice the threat of being banned by WOW? They threatened to ban people for talking about being gay. Whether anyone was banned or not is irrelevant because the threatened to ban people for talking about being gay. And that was their policy until the community backlash caused them to change their mind. So what part of Blizzard threatening to ban gay players are you confused about? Just for the record, this took all of two seconds to find in Google. So now not only are you wrong but you are also apparently incompetent at researching your own info. Sucks to be you. -
360 numbers in Japan are lower b/c of Blue DragonFirst of all, I totally agree that the numbers from Japan are useless, in comparing PS3 to 360 (as many sites are reporting). Of course the PS3 is going to do well in it's first week! That said, I did want to point out one thing
...Then again Microsoft's numbers are picking up in preperation for Blue Dragon, only a couple monthes ago they were barely breaking 1K units. However now it's much more.
Actually, I'd say it's quite the opposite. I would fully expect 360 sales numbers in Japan to be lower than usual because of Blue Dragon. It makes sense and here's why.
We know that there's surprisingly a lot of interest in the Blue Dragon 360 bundle, set to release in December. It also recently took over the #3 spot on Famitsu's list of most anticipated titles. So, if you know there's a bundle coming out in December, why on earth would you buy a 360 now? It's akin to buying a system when you know a price drop is going to happen in a few weeks.
The numbers will be most interesting a week after the game and bundle launches. (The week it actually ships will see an artificial bump of 360 sales, similar to the PS3 one. I fully expect, "wowzers, 360>PS3 lolololezr" articles then as well) Then we can start tracking trends to see if MS will actually have a chance in Japan, or if it's going to be more of the same. -
Re:Delta thinking
Why is downloadable HD content never entered into the choice equation? I think the word should go out that this is an option and is by far a better option.
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Re:Nice BS numbers from Japan.
Could be worse. A system that was released almost a year ago (it was a year ago yesterday), and refreshed in a slightly nicer form factor could outsell the entire brand: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/17/japanese-hardwa
r e-sales-6-november-12-november-new-contender/ .. Yes, that's right. the DS Lite outsold all sony gaming products combined. -
Re:Wii/PS3 numbers
Your numbers are incorrect. (Probably just out of date.)
The PS3 shipped 80,000 units in Japan, and another 200,000 to 400,000 to the U.S. (No one is entirely sure of the exact number.) The Wii shipped over a million units to the U.S. with some reports saying it was as high as 1.2 million.
According to Sony, the PS3 is expected to ship about 2 million units worldwide by the end of the year. They admit that their figures are "more of a target" though. According to Nintendo, they are committed to bringing at least 4 million units worldwide by the end of the year. -
Re:Just a souped up PS2
Isn't that what the next generation of anything is? If it's something different then it's something different.
I can't really say that's true. Going from the first-gen (2600, Intellivision) to the Super Systems (Colecovision, 5200) felt very different. Going from the Super Systems to the NES and Master System felt like a major overhaul in console gaming. Then going to the Genesis/SNES felt like a tremendous leap in the complexity and detail of games. Going to the N64/Playstation was an entirely new experience in 3D.
It was only this last generation of the PS2/XBox/Gamecube (sorry Dreamcast, we knew you well) that felt like just a graphical upgrade. Which wasn't all that bad for the last generation, as the first 3D generation was kind of weak with what the hardware was capable of. (Though honestly, the Gamecube could have been so much more.) I personally skipped owning any of the current gen consoles as nothing really appealed to me enough to make a purchase. Still, my relatives had a PS2 and they enjoyed it.
But with all the hype surrounding this generation, all the competitors are promising us the moon and more. Especially Sony, who has been telling people to get another job so they can afford the PS3. Just what exactly is so great about the PS3 that we should all go work our tails off to get it? With that kind of hubris, I was at least expecting a unique experience, even if the console doesn't appeal directly to me. (And I'm boycotting Sony anyway.) Finding that Sony's next-gen offering costs three times as much for nothing more than the same experience, but prettier, does little to improve my opinion of Sony.
That being said, some people will like the PS3. For some of them, a PS2 with HD is exactly what they're hoping for. For them, the PS3 will be a great system. (Especially since they have deep enough pockets to invest in HD in the first place.) But IMHO, the mass appeal of the PS2 is missing. Unless the price of HD equipment (of which the PS3 is an example of) comes back out of the stratosphere, the average joe is not going to see much value in the PS3. Certainly not the value that the PS2 provided. -
Re:$10,000?
According to joystik, Sony didn't meet its target of 400,000 units on US launch but instead only shipped 200,000. I've been watching eBay prices decline since launch. At first they spiked up, though it's unclear how many of those very high priced sales were legitimate. Sham bidding of eBay accounts with zero feedback is rampant. However, within a day prices declined to about double retail, and have now declined even further. The average price for a 60GB PS3 is ~$1100 while a 20GB model can be had for about $900. As to volume of units on eBay as a fraction of the total release, I note that at the beginning I saw at least 25,000 units on sale. Now there are about 10,000 units. This represents a range of 10% on Friday and Saturday to 5% of the total release today. That's a *very* large fraction of units up for resale; note that it tells you not what the total fraction of units resold, but only gives snapshots as an indicator.
Double retail is a poor return. If you consider that most people waited in line at least 24 hours in the cold, a double markup represents ~$25/hr. For those who waited 48 hours, it (obviously) drops to $12.50/hr. And, as prices continue to slide, that hourly wage on the markup declines as well. Then one must add eBay fees, shipping hassles, etc. This ignores those who somehow obtained large numbers of units for resale - but they have other problems as prices decline, particularly since they have so much capital tied up in a rapidly depreciating asset.
I note that the xbox 360 stayed above double markup on eBay for well over six weeks after release - well into January. And supplied were very tight well into February. That, for a game machine that shipped with more units than the PS3 on launch. This suggests to me a very lax demand for the PS3. Those who bought in expecting to flip units for triple to five times retail markup are in for quite the disappointment. I predict we will see 1.5 x retail on eBay before Christmas. Further, I predict one will be able to walk into a store and buy a PS3 retail without trouble early after Christmas - and, if demand is really lax - perhaps even before.
I think this indicates a *terrible* launch for Sony and the PS3. -
Re:'zonked' tag time
"Poor Zonk could not bear some positive press about the PS3 having tremendous demand at launch."
Heh. I'm sorry, I just find it amusing that you're STILL insisting that this is strictly Zonk bias here. Maybe he does, but it's hard to tell since Sony's PR has tumbled like Homer Simpson crashing down Springfield Gorge. There just plain hasn't been any real good news from Sony's camp. The price sucks. Supply sucks. The launch games suck. The controllers suck. Etc. None of this is of Zonk's invention. What's he supposed to do? Post a headline story about how the battery indicator on the PS3 controller works perfectly?
Speaking of battery indicators, you might find this interesting: Jostiq's own Vladimir Cole says the PS3 controller is flimsy. Sorry I couldn't get Zonk to rewrite the headline to say "The PS3 controller is structurally weak". ;)
Have a good weekend. -
Re:YesBefore I go any farther, I'm going to note that I was a big Sony supporter during the last two generations.
You want my opinion? The PS3 is too expensive. I'm not going to buy it... not until it has a drastic price cut. Say 50% or more.The major difference between Nintendo and Sony in that case is that the PS3 is backwards compatible with PS2 games.
So it's not just based on reputation, it's based on an "upgrade" type mentality.
You're right, the Wii won't play PS2 games. It will, however, play Gamecube games. Oh, and the virtual console system will have titles from the NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, and Turbo-Grafx 16. The catch is that you will have to purchase these titles from the online store.
Sony is planning on having something like this for PS1 games, but as far as I've seen, no details are yet available. Yes, I'm aware that downloadable games are something pioneered by the X-Box 360 (well, not really, but the Satellaview system never hit North America).
There's also a problem with the PS3 not being 100% backwards compatible. I've already seen a note on their site that one of my PS1 games, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue, is listed as having compatibility problems.
Another problem: The PS3 doesn't have PS1/PS2 memory card slots built in. I can't play my games without copying data from my memory cards to the PS3's hard drive using a special adapter, which does not appear to be shipped with the PS3. That's a major roadblock for backwards compatibility. I like memory cards because they're portable. Who knows, maybe I'm the only person who sees this as an issue, but I doubt it. -
Re:who cares?
Number of people who play Wow >= 7 million
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/07/world-of-warcraf t-hits-7-million-subscribers/
Number of people who watched The Sapranos premier = 9.5 million
http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseac tion=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=40982)
So I wouldn't say that the game is unpopular.
Of those that play using Linux, Cedega is a probably method-- the most popular so far as the anecdotal evidence I've come across. Let's say for the sake of argument assume half are using something else though.
If 1% of World of Warcraft subscribers use Linux to play then there are about 35,000 people playing under Cedega.
At $15 USD per month that's $7,000,000 per year in subscription fees.
GG Troll, L2P. -
And in terms of all system sales...
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/10/japanese-hardwa
r e-sales-30-october-5-november-incredibly-inn/
Notice the amount of hardware sold... in a week... in Japan. The DS completely dominates with more than 100,000 sold in a WEEK. This is months after it has launched, while the PS3 has only 80,000 to sell. Now yes, the DS costs much less, but notice that Nintendo probably makes a profit on it rather than a loss, AND this amount of units allows them to sell more software.
How much software is going to move for the PS3 when it's launch is only 80,000? Most of those best seller games are in the area of several 100 thousand to several million units sold. That isn't going to happen for a while. So yes the PS3 sold out, but we can't call it any kind of success yet with this few sold. Maybe if they pushed out 1 million units and sold them all, then we can say they were a success. -
Re:Ho hum...
I do believe that the Wii actually has more developers at this point then the gamecube ever did. I was looking around and this was the first thing I could find to really support that http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/24/whos-really-goi
n g-to-support-the-revolution/ -
Re:And we make fun of the Japanese for translation
According to Joystiq your number is off by a factor of ten. The 10,000 limited editions were apparently all preordered very quickly, too. And that's just preorders for the limited edition bundle. I think it's going to do better than you're making out. Nowhere near enough to crack the Japanese market, but they probably don't need to - the US and European markets are bigger, and if they can maintain a large hold on those markets, then having a smaller presence in Japan won't really hurt them that much.
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Re:I hope not
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Re:What will happen
no community can bark louder than than the WoW one
Might that not have something to do with the size of the WoW community?
-stormin -
Re:Thanks for the tip, Sherlock
Hey, slashdot Nerd!!
* Reasonable price - Wrong
* Works properly (i.e. few bugs) - Wrong
* Is fun to play - Wrong
* Doesn't contain spyware, etc. - Wrong
From the actual Sales Data
The crucial factors are:
* Famous brand
* Sequel
* If possible BOTH
* Make a poor ripoff of a good game and add more violence and vulger language
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Blue Dragon bundles are doing well in Japan
Blue Dragon Bundle? PFfffffffffft No one is ever going to buy a 360 in Japan. The PS3 will be outselling the 360 in Japan as soon as Sony ships enough of them there. I don't have any hard numbers for figures, but the 360 will certainly be behind the Wii in Japan at the moment of the Wii's launch, and the same might be true for the PS3 if Sony releases enough of them. I would be willing to bet that the PS2 continues to outsell the 360 in Japan for another 2 years.
Apparently you missed the news item: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/19/blue-dragon-help s-boost-360-in-japan/. Another one here: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3154520
Blue Dragon pre-order bundles have been selling quite well in Japan. The limited edition ones have all sold out, I believe.
Oh, I certainly agree that the PS3 and Wii will still do far better than the 360, but just wanted to point out that there have been some surprises recently. -
Sweet, Sweet Irony
Rockstar releases this: http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/22/boy-on-boy-kissi ng-in-bully/
Jack goes to jail for making a ruckuss about 'Bully'
Rockstar bribes warden of Jail, installs cameras and arranges 'special accomodations' for dear ol' Jack.
Jack gets to spend some quality time with some new friends (Read: Bullies)
Rockstar includes some great vid captures of Jack in their new game .. (just innocent boys experimenting in their element) -
Re:And HOW many Wiis?
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/05/wii-production-
e xceeding-expectations/
Roughly 6million by year end, 2 million above original expected output.
I refer you to: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=212 for the logic of the it all
Nis -
Re:PS3 Problems- Final software have not been shipped to developers yet
Says who? What does "final" mean anyway in a system which will upgrade its firmware over time? What does it mean to developers who expect and will receive updated versions of the SDK over time?
- Final hardware have not been shipped to developers yet
Says who? A quick google of "final developers kit ps3" yields an article from August that says otherwise. Interestingly it says "Speaking of LAN play, all eight dev kits were connected over the PlayStation Network in real time, which exhibited no lag whatsoever." which leads on to...
- Final online specs have not been shipped to developers yet
Again, says who? Just because YOU don't know what the PS3 has in the way of online goodies, doesn't mean developers don't. Clearly its enough for Insomniac to offer multiplayer in Resistance Fall of Man, but multiplayer titles it is clear that the PS3 doesn't have many online multiplayer launch titles. Neither does the Wii.
Will either system offer a 1:1 mapping with XBox Live? I don't know. The list for the PNP system as shown on Wikipedia seems fairly comprehensive. I have no idea what Wii offers.
And even if either system is lacking something, does that mean it will be lacking it forever? Tell me any kind of online service that has offered absolutely everything from day 1 without a single incremental improvement or new feature.
Yet the developers are supposed to be producing games based on these shaky specifications? How are they possibly going to have time to beta test before manufacturing? How would they know how to add online support if the service isn't up yet?
So describe the network gaming on the Wii please. The fact is that Nintendo hasn't said exactly what it is yet, not even to 3rd party developers. And if you don't know, why are you slagging off Sony for not revealing details to your satisfaction when Nintendo hasn't either? Perhaps Sony & Nintendo know how disastrous it would be if their online system went down on day 1. In that regard, Microsoft had an advantage since their XBox Live service had years of development and experience to build on. Perhaps both Sony and Nintendo have in their own ways chosen to restrict online play until they have a few months to iron out any glitches in their respective systems.
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Re:The PS3 Details From What We Know So Far
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/16/sony-to-support
- homebrew-with-linux-on-ps3/
"according SCE network system development manager Izumi Kawanishi, the console will ship with a built-in Linux OS, complete with compilers and other tools. It would seem that Sony is indeed inviting homebrew enthusiasts to develop basic applications and game content." -
Re:The Xbox 360 Just Became Massively Overpriced
The Xbox 360 is supporting 1080p following the fall 2006 update, which I believe is scheduled to be distributed prior to the PS3 launch. If that's a result of the competition from the PS3, great. But it really isn't a selling point right now.
What was the original MS attitude towards 1080p support in games? Well, their initial take on the 1080p support is "basically impossible", see Xbox exec on PS3: "1080p... will be basically impossible". As late as Aug 17, 2006, they were still saying No 1080p games for PS3 this year, 'Don't get sucked into the hype'. Then why suddenly just prior to TGS 2006, they announced 1080p support? As we now know, it's because Sony will be able to ship 1080p games at launch, see Harrison confirms 6 1090p games for PS3. Should I be worried about how committed are they to 1080p in 360? -
Re:Actually, not
Really? Resistance would appear to be the exception.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/9/ 15/5301
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/25/sony-still-hasnt -delivered-online-specs-to-ps3-developers/ -
Re:Got mine this morning
Guy working at gamestop meant to say 90% of Wii's being sold by EB/Gamestop will be sold to employees and family/friends of employees, remaining Wii's will be sold on a pre-order status to lock in chumps willing to drop $50 on a product you'll be able to get anywhere else on launch day, but 'oh noes! limited suppliez! wez only getz teh 10 Wii!'... only.. http://www.joystiq.com/2006/10/05/wii-production-
e xceeding-expectations/ hmmmmmm -
Way funnier detail to this story...
Look at the msg board below the actual story and follow the saga of random posters vs. aZn_1080p
... For the unpatient, the most hilarious detail is aZn_1080p name drop in this segment: You know Chuckie Akenz? Thats my boy. Thats the crew I roll with. Hell, you can see me in this video; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaciX5hDTvI/ Here's a hint, I have a sleeveless black shirt on. Like I say, IRL you would be crossing the street if you saw us rolling up. Now run along little doggy, run home and cry to momma cuz things got too real for you. -
colors
wow with a GTA killer like Colors you would think gizmondo would do great.
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Re:Bad IdeaActually, I saw three screen shots and descriptions of the game posted on a more reliable gaming news site here.
I'm not saying these are going to be awful games, just that they won't rate a kid going to visit BK when they have XBL.
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Walmart declined the demo units
Walmart was apparently offered the Wii demo units, but declined due to safety concerns with children, and lack of floorspace. Of course, that's just rumour.