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The Gospel According to Neo
Xel writes "Josh Burek, writer for The Christian Science Monitor and A.K.A. the guy who sits 4 cubicles from me, has written an excellent essay on religion in The Matrix: The Gospel According to Neo. Sure, this topic has been covered ad nauseum, but it's refreshing to see such a thoughful examination aimed not at geeks alone but a broader, more traditional, and more traditionally religious audience. It also has a nice little glossary at the end where even pasty-faced and vinyl-clad Matrix worshippers may find some easter eggs they didnt know."
A new take on a wonderful movie(or a summary of all the "takes" I haven't seen around before). It's funny, today in my Comp Repair (A/Net+) class we've been watching The Matrix all day..
I really have no idea what I am talking about.
the render farms rested, for their caches were full, and their disks bore the fruit of long labors.
The geek shall inherit the earth.
Best Windows Freeware
Jamie Madrox (aka the Multiple Man) rules!
The Christian Science religion was established in 1879. I wouldn't call that a traditional religion.
I believe that there's symbolism in the film, but come on, that's stretching it just a bit. You can find non-existant messages in anything if you look hard enough. Just like assassination predictions in Moby Dick.
Josh Burek, writer for The Christian Science Monitor and A.K.A. the guy who sits 4 cubicles from me,
I hope he is a better writer than you are.
All this time... I thought it was just a really good movie...
Soemtimes I think people just get stuck in the "willing suspension of disbelief" and forget that its just a movie... im not looking for a religious revolution, I just want to see Neo kick some machine ass...
But I will be watching on opening day... I already have tickets...
Fire in the hands of the village idiot is no tool, but a weapon of mass destruction
Ooops.
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
it weren't for Satan. I actually work with someone who blames Satan when things go wrong. Unbelieveable! I almost laughed in their face when I hear the reason for problems the first time. And I thought Oklahoma was #1 in religious nuts, I guess this person being from California gives me a different perspective!
It seems odd to me that the most common criticism for Battlefield Earth was the religious views of some of the people involved. I'm not defending the film, and perhaps its mostly lemmings spouting such criticism, but it seems an odd contrast compared to the religious parralels in films like Star Wars and The Matrix that people just eat up.
There's also a fair amount of Buddhism mixed in the Matrix ... more specifically the idea that the world is not real, and that anybody can find enlightenment through belief. But I guess since we don't have a "Buddhist Science Monitor" in this country we get a lot more observations on Christian "Wester Religion" themes. There's a good essay about Buddhism, Gnosticism and Christianity on the Matrix website...
As far as U am concerned from a tech perspective, religion is a idiot filter that allows me to idenitify the morons.
Take the word "matrix" and take the numbers that add them together.
13+ 1+ 20+ 18+ 9+ 24=85
Subtract the number of apostles
You get 73.
If the holy number is expressed as a trinity like so:
7*(7+7)
You get 98.
Multiply the two numbers:
98*73
Which gives 7154
That spells out the word God.
Coincidence?
I think not!
I like the bit where Neo fights the agent.
Before it gets /.ed, here's the text:
... captures people's intellectual imagination."
The Gospel according to Neo
Theologians and pop-culture experts see 'The Matrix' as a phenomenon shaping public opinion about religion
By Josh Burek | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
In a film era long gone, the Bible was a major player. Charlton Heston and Jimmy Stewart starred in movies that directly drew on themes of Bible history and Christian redemption.
Hollywood treats religion a bit differently these days. Mel Gibson's "The Passion," aside, most A-list stars aren't lining up to play the carpenter from Nazareth. But some of Hollywood's most enduring science-fiction films have borrowed greatly from his story.
Casting Keanu Reeves as a Christlike figure in "The Matrix" trilogy may seem blasphemous, but it's not new. "Star Wars" didn't push the idea of a Jedi Jesus, but many fans felt that it freely mixed myth and religion. And some critics said "E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" relied heavily on the account of Christ's passion - a suggestion that director Steven Spielberg, who is Jewish, rejected. More recent films, from "Signs" to "Contact" have used a sci-fi setting to discuss serious questions of faith.
But where previous films made vague references to the Christian story, "The Matrix," some theologians argue, appeals directly to the heart of Christian identity. Its script, however, draws on Platonic philosophy, Greek mythology, Buddhism, and postmodernism, religious experts say.
Its high-octane blend of comic-book action and lofty metaphysics fueled box-office sales in 1999 to more than $450 million worldwide. But it also created theological tension about the movie's symbolism. And with "The Matrix Reloaded" due out next week, the debate is likely to intensify over different interpretations of the trilogy.
"There's two ways to look at this from a Christian perspective," says Glenn Yeffeth, editor of the book "Taking the Red Pill: Science, Philosophy, and Religion in The Matrix." "One is that it's retelling the story of Christ," he says. "The other way to look at it is a very violent film filled with garden-variety blasphemy that exploits people's resonance with the Christian narrative to fool people into a story that is fundamentally atheistic."
Both sides see a movie phenomenon that, for better or worse, is shaping public thought about religion.
"The Matrix" is compelling people to examine the plurality of religions versus the unity of truth, says cultural critic Read Mercer Schuchardt. Like the movie's characters, who strive to understand what is real, Matrix fans are hoping the trilogy's second installment will help them unravel the film's tangled symbolism, say film experts.
Earnest effort to deconstruct the movie began with a question. On Superbowl Sunday 1999, "Matrix" filmmakers tantalized TV viewers with a commercial trailer that asked, "What is the Matrix?" After the film made its auspicious Easter debut, "Matrix" viewers began answering the clever marketing query in personal terms. Sci-fi fans, philosophers, Buddhists, and even evangelical Christians have found resonant themes in the story.
"There are hundreds of Matrix [websites] out there, and they're not about how cute Keanu Reeves looks," says Mr. Yeffeth. "The Christian parallels, the philosophical underpinnings - this is a movie that
Some observers, however, are skeptical about the film's ability to convey the profound. A number of critics panned the first "Matrix" for being too pretentious. And some viewers balked at the marriage of kung fu fight scenes with a "Philosophy for Dummies" script.
The film's creators, brothers Larry and Andy Wachowski, have been remarkably tight-lipped about their vision for the trilogy. But these comic-book aficionados have pulled back the curtain enough to reveal which levers they are pulling.
"We're interested in mythology, theolo
The world would be a much better place as soon as everybody realises that there isn't a God, there couldn't possibly be a God, and there never will be a God.
The Vikings knew about Odin.
The Greeks knew about Zeus.
We know about Jesus.
Give me a freakin break. Damn near every problem in the world today can be traced back to a belief in a higher power. If people open up their eyes and take control of their lives and and think openly then life for everybody would be like a little slice of heaven.
Every time that someone says "God" in the movie, Trinity (if she is present) responds as if she was being addressed. This happens at least twice.
Whether she is actually responding is always left kind of pseudoambiguous:But, while it could be coincidence, I'm guessing that it just means that Trinity has a healthy amount of self-esteem. If you were a leather-clad female trapped in a hovercraft with a bunch of antisocial geeks, you'd probably start to think you were God too.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Sometimes if you see something weird in your dreams, it might not mean anything, you could have just been dreaming something you might have seen on the TV or something.
All this armwaving about "hidden meanings" is just making a fun movie more than it really is: a fun movie.
Can't we just enjoy the fucking movie without looking for bullshit hidden ideologies and messages?
.....well...probably not....
FWIW, I bet I can take a transcript of any John Ashcroft speech and "find" references to Satan Worship. Does that mean it's really in there,
Sigh..........
And some critics said "E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" relied heavily on the account of Christ's passion - a suggestion that director Steven Spielberg, who is Jewish, rejected.
I got as far as the line above and had to stop reading. I dont remember ET whipping out a hammer or saw during the movie to do a bit of carpentry and if I remember correctly he goes back to his buddies in the end without being crucified to death.
Its a movie. Turn your brain off for a couple of hours and enjoy the spectacle
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
The Gospel according to Neo
... captures people's intellectual imagination."
Theologians and pop-culture experts see 'The Matrix' as a phenomenon shaping public opinion about religion
By Josh Burek | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
In a film era long gone, the Bible was a major player. Charlton Heston and Jimmy Stewart starred in movies that directly drew on themes of Bible history and Christian redemption.
Hollywood treats religion a bit differently these days. Mel Gibson's "The Passion," aside, most A-list stars aren't lining up to play the carpenter from Nazareth. But some of Hollywood's most enduring science-fiction films have borrowed greatly from his story.
Casting Keanu Reeves as a Christlike figure in "The Matrix" trilogy may seem blasphemous, but it's not new. "Star Wars" didn't push the idea of a Jedi Jesus, but many fans felt that it freely mixed myth and religion. And some critics said "E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" relied heavily on the account of Christ's passion - a suggestion that director Steven Spielberg, who is Jewish, rejected. More recent films, from "Signs" to "Contact" have used a sci-fi setting to discuss serious questions of faith.
But where previous films made vague references to the Christian story, "The Matrix," some theologians argue, appeals directly to the heart of Christian identity. Its script, however, draws on Platonic philosophy, Greek mythology, Buddhism, and postmodernism, religious experts say.
Its high-octane blend of comic-book action and lofty metaphysics fueled box-office sales in 1999 to more than $450 million worldwide. But it also created theological tension about the movie's symbolism. And with "The Matrix Reloaded" due out next week, the debate is likely to intensify over different interpretations of the trilogy.
"There's two ways to look at this from a Christian perspective," says Glenn Yeffeth, editor of the book "Taking the Red Pill: Science, Philosophy, and Religion in The Matrix." "One is that it's retelling the story of Christ," he says. "The other way to look at it is a very violent film filled with garden-variety blasphemy that exploits people's resonance with the Christian narrative to fool people into a story that is fundamentally atheistic."
Both sides see a movie phenomenon that, for better or worse, is shaping public thought about religion.
"The Matrix" is compelling people to examine the plurality of religions versus the unity of truth, says cultural critic Read Mercer Schuchardt. Like the movie's characters, who strive to understand what is real, Matrix fans are hoping the trilogy's second installment will help them unravel the film's tangled symbolism, say film experts.
Earnest effort to deconstruct the movie began with a question. On Superbowl Sunday 1999, "Matrix" filmmakers tantalized TV viewers with a commercial trailer that asked, "What is the Matrix?" After the film made its auspicious Easter debut, "Matrix" viewers began answering the clever marketing query in personal terms. Sci-fi fans, philosophers, Buddhists, and even evangelical Christians have found resonant themes in the story.
"There are hundreds of Matrix [websites] out there, and they're not about how cute Keanu Reeves looks," says Mr. Yeffeth. "The Christian parallels, the philosophical underpinnings - this is a movie that
Some observers, however, are skeptical about the film's ability to convey the profound. A number of critics panned the first "Matrix" for being too pretentious. And some viewers balked at the marriage of kung fu fight scenes with a "Philosophy for Dummies" script.
The film's creators, brothers Larry and Andy Wachowski, have been remarkably tight-lipped about their vision for the trilogy. But these comic-book aficionados have pulled back the curtain enough to reveal which levers they are pulling.
"We're interested in mythology, theology, and, to a certain extent, higher-level mathematics," Larry told Time in 1999. In a Warner Bros
Switching gears... In an interview released today over at Coming Soon, Lawrence Fishburne gives a pretty detailed account of (some of) his experience with The Matrix and playing Morpheus.
WARNING: The interview may spoil some minor plot details near the bottom -- the first six paragraphs are safe. When it gets to "Early audiences are already getting a different sense...", you might consider waiting a day or two to see the movie and then catch up on what he had to say about his character.1) It does not auctomatically make him successful.
2) It does not make the film have a plot. (And before the sheep come out, I understood what they thought the plot was [It didn't "go over my head."], but it was not internally consistent or logical enough to warrant a suspension of disbelief.)
Because when I think of eastern religion and Christianity (as in its core teachings and not as practiced), I think of a casual disregard for human life and mindless slaughter.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
this is a movie that ... captures people's intellectual imagination.
With dialog like "Noone can be told what the Matrix is", "Woah", and "I know Kung Fu" it's no wonder everyone's in an intellectual tiffy over it. And let us not forget that whole brilliant monologue on weather chicken tastes like chicken.
The Matrix rocks, but it's a silly sci fi super action movie-not some kind of brilliantly thought out metaphor for reality. I'm reminded of my English teach in HS telling me how every noun in every book is a symbol for humanity and her struggles. Come on people, the people who wrote that script were just making a good movie, not sending us a message. That said, I still have opening day tickets.
"Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." -Philips
going downhill or something? i'd expect a better article from them, if anyone. the 101/303 lost me the article but honestly...of the thousands of relevant matrix/philosophy ideas...why those? either they have been paid off or something...but this is a waste. i think it's interesting how you can find those, like me who thought it was too christian the first time[and only the first time] i saw it...and then there are others who will think it's too atheistic. that i found neet.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
if you think that because the newspaper in question has affiliation with a religion and that therefore its readership is of that religion, then you are very ignorantly mistaken.
the readership of the newspaper in question is no more homogeneous than the readership of any other newspaper. IN OTHER WORDS, if you think that the CSM readership is "more traditionally religious" then you are a shit-for-brains idiot.
The Christian Science Monitor is a pretty major publication. I find it pretty unlikely they're going to get slashdotted. And if they were going to, they probably would have already.
There is no Gospel......
RoseColor red={0, 0xffff, 0x0000, 0x0000};VioletColour blue={0, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0xffff};find / -name *mybase*|chown you
See exclusive MATRIX REVOLUTIONS screenshot here. :)
--- Frantisek Fuka (Yes, that's my real name and you have no idea how it's pronounced)
The author tells us what the Matrix is in the article... Perhaps some of us haven't seen it yet. A spoiler warning would have been nice! Geez, at least give us a chance to see it first.
[/justkidding]
Matrix's storyline which projects the world as a simulation is very similar to what Eastern philosophies say. Eastern religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism treat the world as Mayajaal or web of deceit/temptation/unreal things. To realise one's true potential a person needs to only break mental barriers is also theorised by Eastern philosophies.
Numerology: Neo's apartment number is 101, suggesting that he's "the one." Neo is shot in apartment number 303, and after 72 seconds (72 hours = 3 days), he rises again.
I'd love to meet the first guy who thought to time that. I can see the tinfoil hat now.
Also, as a physics major, it hurts my eyes to see 72 seconds = 72 hours = 3 days. I guess no one bothered to teach the numerologists unit conversions.
And some critics said "E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" relied heavily on the account of Christ's passion - a suggestion that director Steven Spielberg, who is Jewish, rejected.
"E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" wasn't a remake of a religious passion play. It was a remake of those Disney films from the 50's and 60's where the kids would go hunting or camping and bring home a racoon, or an otter, or a crow (or whatever). Mayhem and maddness would ensue, and the new found animal friend would eventually be returned home.
E.T. follows the old Disney plot lines perfectly. Why re-invent the wheel?
Sure there's Christian symbolism all over the place in The Matrix. Take Neo's name for example:
Neo Anderson
Neo = New
Ander = Man
Which translates to 'New Son of Man'.
What did Christ call himself? The Son of Man.
But then again, there's also Bhuddist imagry and as was mentioned the main theme is based on Plato's Cave.
BTW: My wife attended a talk by Leonard Sweet several months back and he claimed that he is one of the spiritual consultants for The Matrix movies. That would explain where the Christian imagry came from.
snow doggy!
Despite the name of the publication, it should be understood that the Christian Science Monitor is not an intensely religious newspaper. In fact, it is one of the most objective and well-written news publications in national circulation. The CSM is often cited by debaters, etc. as a reputable and impartial source of journalism (much more integrity and journalistic value than the likes of CNN, for example).
and Matrix hype...
Does this dictionary contain informtion on what the FUCK the blue pill contains?! TRINITY WILL DIE
More about the CS Monitor's origin and purpose
the bulk of his book meditations on first philosophy deals with the idea that we can never truely know if reality exists as we percieve it. one of the possible realities he throws out is that we are constantly being decieved by some all powerful evil being who's goal is to make us believe everything that is not true. what descartes concludes is that even if everything he believes is false, he can still convince himself that he exists, because of the fact that he can convince himself (i think therefore i am). Descartes was one of the first christian philosophers to actually try to find other explanations for the way things worked other than "God willed it that way" so i'm surprised he didn't get brought up. maybe it has something to do with his whole "machines will never be able to think" theory ;)
I never said I was smart, I just said I was smarter than you
thats one of the best trolls ive heard around here for a while.
i sell illegal drugs
Is there just a possibility that they are reading too much in to this? When I was in school, I often wondered if shakespeare would have wanted students to analyze him or if he would have preferred we sit back and enjoy the plot for what it is.
If Neo's name is Thomas Anderson, I can't believe
the article author missed the significance. The
Gospel of Thomas is one of the key Gnostic Texts.
It could be the oldest gospel written, but was rejected for inclusion in the Christian Bible by the Council of Nicene in 325AD. Thomas means "twin". Saint Thomas, the putative author of the Gospel of Thomas was supposedly Jesus' twin brother.
Anderson supposedly means Andrew's son. In this context would be Saint Andrews. He was the first disciple and a fisherman. He was crucified on an X shaped cross....
This is kind of of-topic, but what does the Matrix topic icon represents?
I have looked at it several times and still don't get it.
Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Its an interesting read, and most of the parallels/etc that they draw I do agree with, and their little bit on Gnoestic was pretty cool. However, I think the stretch went a little to far when they came down to analyzing the WB logo. I'm sure if I tried hard enough, I could find religion based symbolism in this post-it stuck to my monitor.
The whole concept of a savior and other ideas mentioned in the article are universal themes, of which both Jesus and Neo are examples. It only seems to Christians like Neo is "Christ like" because they were first exposed to these universal themes through the Jesus example. If Christians whorshipped, for example, Moses instead of Jesus, this article would have been all about how Neo was "Moses like".
Any TRUE disciple knows you need to ROT13 first.
hSIL?
Another symbol for Allah?
The number of angels that can dance on a pin?
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
MASTER! Please teach me how to post ASCII-art on Slashdot!
Did the guy sit there with a stopwatch, timing all the important events in the film? I think this just shows that it is possible to read more into something than is actually there.
Anyway, according to the Bible, Jesus was dead for two days, not three ("on the third day" = "after two days")
... if somehow you were able to convince the masses there was / is no God. A lot of people simply can't imagine a life with no higher power as being positive, good, or worth living. Others who see the existence of God as keeping them in check would suddenly feel free to break all 10 commandments and enjoy it. So all these people would likely become depressed, suicidal, putting a huge burden on our healthcare system. Or, they might just go bonkers and start killing people, stealing, looting, pillaging, and practising all sorts of heathenous behaviors. Of course, once all these deluded people passed on we could get down to business, but there'd be about a hundred years of rough times. Religion has a purpose in society, even if it has none to you. Largely, it's to make an unbearable life worth living and as universal policeman. And if only for those reasons alone, I tolerate it. I just don't practice it myself.
You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and you believe whatever you want to believe.
You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.
You forgot the part where the strange visitor from beyond our world was persecuted, died, came back to life, and then ascended into the heavens.
E.T. was a kid's movie, but it was also a passion play.
If you want to completely miss out on the deeper meaning of the movie, then go right ahead, stare at the pretty pictures that flash by your eyes when you're at the movie theater... the rest of us like to do some thinking now and again about what it is we're looking at, and what we can learn from it.
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Getting a "more traditionally religious" view of Christian things from an entity associated with Christian Science is sort of like getting a "traditional Mexican dinner" from Taco Bell. Christian Science is a contemporary "religion" (though some prefer to use the term "tax evasion scam") and has about as much in common with mainstream Christianity as the Backstreet Boys have with Beethoven--alliteration.
Superstitious people pick up patterns where there's only white noise. Stuff happens. And it's not suprising to see that a few who are infatuated with religion make up parallels between it and just about anything they see.
The bible is the grandfather of fictional action stories with an invincible protagonist - I'm not suprised someone managed to find a few similarities to a modern two-hour long action movie about an invincible protagonist.
I guess it's somewhat interesting, but there are other popular movies out there that make better examples of the "Christian story" than the Matrix. In the realm of sci-fi, we have ET, 2001: A Space Odyssey, and of course Star Wars. If you want some really overt symbolism try watching Cool Hand Luke.
The Wajahowski brothers(can't spell names) also took some visuals from
Dragonballz(look at the twins when they power up) also look at NEO flying. Dragonballz is everywhere in this film.
It's not the message in "The Matrix" is inherently Christian/Buddist/Pagan/Geek, it's just a convenient exegetical tool for various writers to latch onto an indoctrinate readers with their own philosphical views.
Sort of like "The Tao of Pooh".
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
It is official; Warner Bros. now confirms: Trinity is dying
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered Matrix fanboy community when the Warshowski Bros. confirmed that Trinity's wank appeal has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all geek porn. Coming on the heels of a recent Natalie Portman survey which plainly states that Trinity has lost more market share of masturbatory fantasies, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Trinity is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by dead last in the recent "Who do I think of while jerking off" test.
You don't need to be a pasty-faced, anti-social computer nerd to predict Trinity's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Trinity faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Trinity because Trinity is dying. Things are looking very bad for Trinity. As many of us are already aware, Trinity dies in the end of "Matrix Reloaded." Red blood flows like a river of blood. From her. When she dies.
Nude Trinity is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of her erotic potential. The mannish and unpleasant physique of long time Trinity actress Carrie-Ann Moss only serves to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: Trinity is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
Trinity sycophant Michael states that he has written 7000 fanscripts featuring Trinity. How many people who give a shit about Trinity are there? Let's see. The number of Galadirel versus trinity posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 Trinity fanboys. Trinity in vinyl images on Usenet are about half of the volume of picuters of women shitting on themselves. Therefore there are about 700 losers who fantasize about Trinity being their girlfriend. A recent article put Trinity at about 80 percent of the "jerking off to pictures of distended anuses" market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 total losers still reading at this point. This is consistent with the number of Trinity Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Hollywood, abysmal acting and so on, Trinity was killed off at the end of "Matrix Reloaded" and the role was taken over by a small beagle puppy who conveys emotion better than Moss. Now Trinity is dead, her corpse turned over to the Matrix to be liquified and fed to unsupecting batteries.
All major surveys show that Trinity looks like a post-operative male-female transsexual. Trinity is very hideous and her long term wankability prospects are very dim. If Trinity is to survive at all it will be among Matrix geeks who bought the first one on DVD. Trinity continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save her at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Trinity is dead.
Fact: Trinity is dying at the end of "Matrix Reloaded."
Some people read too far into things. As previously stated, sure, there more then likely is symbolism in the movie, but c'mon bible thumpers, Give up already.
How people who initially disagree with something(The Matrix) that chatises their way of life(Organized Religion) do their best to make it seem their way is actually confirmed through it.
If I had time, I could write a equally definitive argument that the Matrix is about personal spirituality and questioning authority and what other's tell you you're perceiving.
But I guess that's what art's about, and sometimes narrowminded people aren't going to change no matter what you show them.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
BTW, Ted IS A TARD - Use ++ and --.
...well real haxorororororroz use pointer arithmetic to iterate arrayz. p00m!
I attended a Catholic high school, and as such, I had to take religion classes. Sometimes, we would watch movies in those classes and try to compare & contrast with Catholicism. Unfortunately, the movies we watched included "Man Without a Face" and "Fern Gully". I would much rather have watched "The Matrix" instead.
"If you can see a way through those things and really pick out the good stuff ... any Christian could apply those things to life and grow from it."
Comments like these really make me wonder how a lot of these people think. To observe in this fashion is like looking at reality through a polarized lense polarized to your own personal tastes. Reality consists of many things and to interpret it without recognizing the whole is futile.
Furthermore, it's interesting to note that one of the central messages in The Matrix is that you're living a lie if you refuse to see what's right in front of you just because it doesn't fall within the perceived framework of your reality. "Picking out the good" and only growing from "the good" is what people still jacked in do.
Join Tor today!
Oh, yeah? Then who wrote linux, if you're so smart.
I know TED is thinking about pointer arithmatic. BUT YOU CAN USE ++/-- WITH IT.
What a TARD.
char s[] = "Ted Is A Tard";
char *p;
for( p = s; p != NULL; p++ )
{
putch( *p );
}
Output:
>Ted Is A Tard
PROPS TO GABE AND MATTS MOM.
Um... maybe Trinity thought that it was just an exclamation, and wondered what it was in reference to? Replace "Jesus!" with "Wow!" or "Damn!" and it really doesn't change her reaction much. I'll bet if you go back, you might even find her responding to "Shit!". She doesn't thing she's a pile of excrement, does she?
In fact, you probably do the same thing. If you're somewhere with a person who says "Jesus!", do you think
a) Hey! They mean me!
b) The second coming? Already?
or
c) What would cause them to say that now?
R: That voice. Where have I heard that voice before? B: In about 365 other episodes. But I don't know who it is either.
There was the Butlerian Jihad.
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind." -The Orange Catholic Bible
Everything else, IMHO is getting bogged down in the details. I see no basic difference between Presbyterians, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Southern Baptists, although each would give you a litany of reasons why they're not "real" Catholics or why they're better than the other. Does it really matter? Not to most non-religious people.
dave += sizeof(tool);
7154, eh?
Sigh. At least you didn't go for the obvious 666.
I totally agree with you in that there used to be a need for religion, or at least there used to be perceived need for religion. Anybody who thinks that the church (I'm talking mostly Christian here) wasn't created to control the stupid masses is seriously deluded.
Anyhow, I don't break the law because I'm afraid of burnin in eternal hellfie-yas! I do it because I'm afraid of the law and more importantly because looting, raping and killing is just plain wrong!
The world is totally overpopulated, religion is still preaching about no birth control, no abortion (which is understandable if closed minded), and lots of kids.
Look at Israel. I'm pretty sure an unbearble life there would look a lot better real quick if God was taken out of the picture.
Nice post by the way.
Today is May 14. And its 12:00pm now. You already missed it sorry.
If you are trying to learn from a movie designed for entertainment, then please fill out the ID10-T form.
Having read the CSM sporadically over the past few years, they definitely have more "family" oriented articles and the occasional "do the right thing" article which to me, at least (your run of the mill liberal agnostic minority) find preachy and annoying. I guess it's just relative.
The Wajahowski brothers(can't spell names) also took some visuals from
Dragonballz(look at the twins when they power up)
I think your confusing Matrix visuals with Cartman visuals when he is battling Saddam at the end of the Southpark movie.
That is obviously a central component to the belief but there are many other fundamental beliefs as well, for example the belief the abortion is wrong. Or the belief that communism is evil (read the book of Exodus.) Also things like stem cell research and pornography opposition and campaign finance reform. The opposition to large government and government schools where athiesm is indoctrinated. There is more to being a Christian than you think.
If at all movie-viewers are looking for a profound message in this movie, which is first and
... any
foremost a highly entertaining, but still just an entertainment nevertheless, one can push and
pull the plots, the names, the numbers and everything else to fit their personal beliefs.
I expected something beyond this in this article and I was deeply disappointed.
Firstly the article just touches upon other interpretations of Matrix other than
that of christianity. Secodnly there is a desparate attempt at bending and mending
the movie to make it fit into Christian dogmas. Even in this, most comments are of the
type "If you can see a way through those things and really pick out the good stuff
Christian could apply those things to life and grow from it." rather than saying what the
profound connection between the movie and christianity except for Nostradamus like
interpretations of Bible which can be made to fit any situation.
I think the biggest thing the author forgot to mention was that the basic theme in itself
conveys the most non-christian message. Since the whole world that we live in is
depicted as a unreal computer program, the concept of God, the evil, good etc in this
world is completely irrelevant since its all just dreamy images. Everything a religion preaches
pales into non-entities in front of the machines who are the real masters of the human race.
DO NOT PANIC
+5, Insightful
This sig under construction. Please check back later.
having read the stupid article. It's hog wash. First off, the summaries of christianity, bhuddism and philosophy are equivalent to soggy noodle. Where do these pseudo-intellectual dweebs get the idea the masses need their 500 words of mental masturbation. nothing here to read, move on.
It just seems that if the W brothers existed 2000 years ago, they could make people believe that there actually was a matrix (aka the earth) and that they could get to the real world (aka heaven) only through giving them money. Of course, this information would be disseminated to the populace through the spoken word and later written down.
It seems like the people who think that The Matrix has some revolutionary or revealing philosophy are always the same ones who deride me whenever I mention that they might enjoy reading some of the classic works of philosophy from Plato, Aristotle, Nietzsche, etc. These, and many other philosophers, were the basis for the main ideas presented in The Matrix and delve into the topics in a much more in depth fashion.
Could it just be the typical geek fashion to write off something as worthless if it is not exciting or doesn't have any practical application? I don't know, but I encourage any of you who have shrugged off philosophy but find interest in the philosophy found in The Matrix to try out reading some real philosophy. Philosophy may change the way you view the world and--more importantly--make you think about the world.
Besides the philosophy in The Matrix, there are other geek appealing topics in philosophy. For example, you can find AI in philosophy, and I don't mean from some research paper written by some cognative scientist at MIT. What it means 'to think' and to 'be conscience' have been thought about by some of the most profound thinkers in human history thousands of years ago.
If you are in college, I would recommend taking an introductory survey course in philosophy. If taking courses is not your thing, try reading some of the philosophy books put out by Penguin Classics. Their books generally have understandable translations, provide historical context where needed, and have explainations for the more difficult readings.
And your point? There are way too damned many people as it is anyway...
It would suck for several years, but the long term gains would be worth it...
I can say that with every part of my body that this whole point of view is bullsh-- what's that? My ass has something to say.
My Ass: Actually, I'm not convinced that this kind of thinking is totally without merrit.
Me: Explain
My Ass: Well, the way I see it, part of what makes SciFi films so enjoyable is emersing yourself in their world. By discussing possible parallels with reality, religion, philosophy, and other like issues, you create a greater mood and level of enjoyment.
Me: Yeah, but what about the extemist jerks, like the guy who wrote the article?
My Ass: Well, it's hard to judge someone who writes for a living. He has to be constantly filling up pages with ideas-- I'm sure a lot of them come out as more meaningful sounding then his own opinion of the matter, he can't exactly say "isn't it cool to think about it this way, even though it's kind of silly". Anyway, a lot of these people don't really think through what they're writing, they just put it on paper.
Me: You make a good point. I still don't condone serious debate without satire on issues like this, but I at least understand it better. I can understand where these ideas come from, but the jerks who peddle them as intellectual debate instead of just having fun are ass-- I mean dickheads.
My Ass: Yeah, that's what your mom said.
Me: Look, that doesn't even make any sense.
. . .
"Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." -Philips
pasty-faced and vinyl-clad Matrix worshippers
Just in case you missed the subtle imagery, he is talking about you.
Yes. You!
Sure, the Matrix is blasphemously co-opting Christ's passion to sell cherry pepsi and black trenchcoats.
However, this is nothing new.
Seriously, the similarities between this CSM article and the joke pieces at landover baptist are stunning. Satire is rendered irrelevant.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
So, you are saying that religion is the real-life Matrix? "Designed to keep us under control...". Damn, I think I just figured out the REAL meaning behind the movie!
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Someboday say with me:
"promotional material touted as news"
"an apology to the Matrix analyses on the web touted as having something that we have missed before"
"sell out"
That "sell out" includes Moderators also -- I see not more than one comment that indicates outrage at the news-worthlessness of this or its lameness.
You may know about Jesus (real or not) but the majority of the human race is not christian and it seems rather egocentric to imply such.
So, that's supposed to be a well hidden subtext?
The symbolism is about as subtle as a sledgehammer hitting a fly, not that this makes it a bad movie. (The messiah symbolism in Dune is also not a "hidden subtext.")
Neo is more like David than Jesus, if you look at the Bible, anyway.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
"Battlefield Earth" that led to it's criticism. It was the "This is so bad I want to place bricks in front of my eyes and ears to ensure that no more of this phenomenally stupid, boring, ugly, painful, moronic, failed attempt at filmmaking will infect me further." nature of the film that led to most of the criticism. Talk about WMDs!
Most of the posts I have read have been either making fun of the article, making fun of the concept of God, or making fun of the people who believe in God. Why?
Secondly, why is it so difficult to believe in God? Science has not proven anything in the Bible to be untrue. In fact, when outrageous attempts are made to prove the Bible wrong, they end up proving it correct. An example of this is the great flood of Noah. When they discovered there actually was a layer of underwater "silt" around the period the story comes from, and when they discovered similar stories in other cultures, they only showed that the Bible was correct.
Thirdly, people say the Big Bang Theory proves God doesn't exist. How? Scientists will tell you that the theory only explains what happened from 2 seconds after the blast and forward, but does not explain what happened within that first 2 seconds... or even before that two seconds. Also, the theory believes that the universe was created by some atoms rubbing together which caused the explosion? Where did these atoms come from if there was *nothing* before the Big Bang? Finally, on this note, theories are not laws. Theories are ideas which sound plausable, but have not been proven.
Forthly, whether or not the creators of the Matrix intended for the movie to mimic any religious text or story, the fact is that anyone who writes or directs gets ideas about the story from their own life. If religion was a great part of the writers' lives growing up, it would make sense that there would be religious themes in the movie.
Fifthly (and finally)... mod me down, since it'll probably happen anyway.
Christian groups like to talk about "The Matrix" and "The Lord of the Rings" because they're very popular movies that include a lot of religious symbolism and draw on theology for their themes and stories. This is well and good. It's always hard to get people to talk about religion when they're not in the habit of it, especially when they're not very informed on the facts of Christianity or any other major religion.
What I have problems with is when people hold up these films as proof of their creators' intentions to promote particular religions. The "Star Wars" films have been accused, off and on, of promoting "New Age" religion and spirituality. "The Matrix" relies on Buddhist beliefs and themes as much as Christian ones, if not more. And I still can't understand why the Christian right touts "The Lord of the Rings" as a brilliantly disguised retelling of the Gospels (which it wasn't) while the "Harry Potter" books are vilified for encouraging witchcraft and occult interests (which they aren't).
All of these are works of fiction, not of faith. They use a variety of religious themes together to make their story more interesting to viewers, often in ways that's not immediately obvious. But religious sorts should be careful to take these stories as they are and not assume too much about the creators' intents.
the actual founding fathers of America were Deists or Atheists
The founding fathers had a wide range of religious viewpoints, not just Christians of various denominations, not just Diests, not just Atheists.
I thought god was 31337
What sort of childhood trauma leads people to need ghosts and story-heroes to guide their lives?
Is that near Elbonia?
Neo is just his persona, and as Neo he has no last name.
You can find interesting articles about The Matrix's philosophic and religious background right on the official site. Enjoy.
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
I guess we'll have to watch Thursday and find out. But seriously, it's possible this could be another interpretation of the trilogy. It just depends on if Neo really is the One or if it is exposed as a sham. Needless to say I'd be pretty happy if at the end of Revolutions we find out all the prophecy and "one" stuff was a giant crock.
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Well, yeah, the Protestants aren't real Catholics... they're Protestant! :) As a Catholic, the thing that bothers me is Protestants that think Catholics aren't Christian... excuse me, did they forget what they were protesting?
Nal GEHR qvfpvcyr xabjf lbh arrq gb EBG13 svefg.
BS pbhefr, gung znxrf ab qvssrerapr ba ahzoref...
Tom Anderson was the old guy who lived next to Beavis & Butthead.
Help me. I'm replying to messags on Slashdot. Once I start down this dark path, forever will it dominate my destiny... :-)
I'd posit that calling oneself "Christian" means three things:
1) Belief that Christ is the son of God;
2) Belief that not only is Christ the son of God, but that he also IS God;
3) Belief that only by recognizing oneself as a sinner and accepting Christ's sacrifice on one's behalf can one be saved
Any definition of Christianity that has "Jesus is the son of God" without the other two is incomplete. If you just define it that way, without the other two, then you include religions like Mormonism, which is very much NOT a Christian religion (Jesus and God are a literal father/son pair and are not two aspects of the same being; and most everyone except a few blatant heretics gets to experience the heavenly afterlife).
You might want to read this and this before making a claim like that. The highlights are:
- "The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma." - Abraham Lincoln
- "As to Jesus of Nazareth...I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity. " - Benjamin Franklin
- "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." - Thomas Jefferson
- "I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any Church that I know of. My own mind is my own Church." - Thomas Paine
The truth is that the USA was founded as a secular nation. That's why the treaty of tripoli that we signed explicitly states that revisionist history by fundamentalist Christians doesn't change the truth"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too
Opiate of the masses, according to Marx.
Rhapsody in Numbers
yes you would but how can we progress if *everything* we do is based in general on a society that believes in what is essentially a lie ? is it worthwhile to have a brief period of anarchy compensate for stupid restrictions on research (like banning cloning or stem cell research...as if nature doesnt clone already with twins or use stem cells for generating organs) ?
and realistically for those of us who don't believe in god or a higher power (like you, me and a large majority of slashdot and the scientific community) is life really that unbearable ? even if we dont believe in souls, afterlife or any of that bullshit and believe the human brains disintegrates and death is permanent, i dont see anyone here slashing their wrists or going beserk anytime soon. if youre intelligent enough to accept it, you can live with it.
knowledge should be shared. educating the average joe that religion is a sham is a worthwhile endeavor IMHO. even if we do get a hundred years of chaos, science will progress at a much faster rate than it does now and the average person's level of intelligence will rise as they become more interested in real progress rather than the buy-the-new-flashy-toy-you-mindless-sheeple model. lowest common denominator will only carry you so far....eventually the human race will *have* to grow up and become mature...or become extinct either way, like all the other civilizations before us (mayans, sumerians, etc etc).
Besides, the Matrix borrows more from easter religions than it does from western ones, comparisons between Neo and Jesus notwithstanding (OK, and now I feel soiled).
This paragraph shows everything that is wrong with the close-mindedness of traditional organized religion:
... any Christian could apply those things to life and grow from it."
The film's bullet-laden violence and strong language, along with Eastern religious influences, she acknowledges, are unsettling to some Christians. But she has high hopes for the sequels. "If you can see a way through those things and really pick out the good stuff
Right, because a Christian applying so Buddhist ideals to life would help them grow at all, right? C'mon, open your damn minds already.
_sig_ is away
Good gawd! all these articles looking into the matrix as more then it really is. A really great movie that had no other movies like it before. If you really wanna look into it, rent/buy the dvd and watch it with the director's commentary. You'll find it has nothing to do with religion. The changes made to it such as the logo's at the beginning was to give the reader a dark over tone of the movie and not because it related to religion in some way.
All these religious articles are doing exactly the same thing, take each scene, pick it apart, and see if some part of a religion or religions happens to relate to it in some magical way. Get over it. It's a movie, nothing more. Entirely science fiction, and not meant to be religious in any way. After all, science fiction tries looking to science to explain what happens in a movie's story, unlike religion that has no truth at all in it.
I see a lot more in common with all these difference sects of Christianity than differences. That's all I am saying. I see no point in getting all hot and heavy with another Christian group just because they think abortion is okay or women should be ministers. I simply don't think that's worth getting all annoyed about.
I do it because I'm afraid of the law and more importantly because looting, raping and killing is just plain wrong!
"Yes, but why is it wrong," they'll say. "Because God said so," is one answer. Another is Scalable Behaviors. Just ask youself, "what would happen if everybody ______," filling in the questionable behavior. Let's take looting, one of your examples.
What would happen if everybody looted? Well, every shop would be quickly destroyed, and it would be impossible to have shops. So, if everybody looted, commerce would crumble, and everybody would be unable to purchase what they needed. OK, put a check in the 'Bad' column next to looting - it's not a scalable behavior. Continue on down your list.
You can pretty much derive the last nine commandments, the golden rule, the sane parts of criminal law, etc. from this one simple test. You can build a society on it and you don't necessarily need a religion to keep people in order. Of course, the prerequsite for people being able to live according to this test is an educated populous, schooled in the ways of logical analysis, but we're pretty much there, and only for the first time in history.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Christian nor Science
I wonder if this is part of the reason behind the use of the name Nebuchadnezzar in the story. The mixture of humans (clay) and machines (iron) is certainly reminiscent of his dream.
"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." -- G. K. Chesterton
I guess I missed that Gospel where Jesus talks about "Guns, lots of guns".
this amy be true, but reducing the number of people will cause more problems than it solves. Look at what happened during the 14th century in europe: Plague killed off ~20 % of the population. People starved to death because they were too sick to plow the field, and there werent enough well people to make up the difference. Entire towns died, the economy collapsed etc, etc. Similar thing is beginning to happen in africa today with aids. People are too sick to work, too sick to farm, and so they are literally starving to death because they cant do anything to get food. Even given all that, declining populations cant support growing ecconomies without miraculous increases in productivity, and increases in productivity arent as likely because there are simply less people to be innovative and come up with new ideas. What if thomas edison had died in a riot at age 10? What if newton had been killed by the plague? Yes there are risks of having a large and growing population, overuse of land, overuse of resources, etc but ultimately, if somone is running out of something,, this gives a large incentive to come up with a way to either xtend the resource or find a new resource to do the same thing. We dont use beavers for coats and hats anymore, we dont use whale oil for lamps anymore etc. Neccesity is the mother of invention.
I say if you read into something you'll always find what you want to find.
In my eyes it sugests that we all rebel and over throw the powers to be, with kung-fu.
-makoffee
And anyone who believes they control the stupid masses is likewise deluded.
The vast majority of Americans give the State more power over their lives than they give their church. For a while, the church served as both a ministry and a political organization, but that is seldom the case today. Most churches would be lucky to influence the local zoning commision, let alone any major portion of our government.
That's only because they were raised that way.
You could just as well see some polytheist saying the same thing about people forgoing all thier complementary Gods for just one.
I think what you mean is that human beings tend to need something to cling to - we like the idea of faith, and we need some sort of concience enhancer. Some people choose God, others choose science, still others choose ideals about humanity, etc. But the idea that the only way to reap these benefits with with a God is cultural arrogrance (or the result of cultural blinders).
_sig_ is away
What, as opposed to the happy shiny people that are running around now?
Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
Does Matrix ripoff other movies like DarkCity
Did Dark City rip off an old role-playing supplement called Flight 13? I know its a stretch, but if you ever play this GURPS adventure it is quite similar to Dark City, right down to the final twist. So, who did Flight 13 ripoff? Where does it end?
"The other way to look at it is a very violent film filled with garden-variety blasphemy that exploits people's resonance with the Christian narrative to fool people into a story that is fundamentally atheistic."
:) i know of a few institutions who try to fool people into their views, but i wouldnt say that about a movie.
dont want people thinking for themselves now do we
... getting back to the film, and what you said, think about this: Is living in the Matrix worth it if it's all a lie? compared to: Is believing in a higher power, a religion, worth it if it's all a lie? If it makes you a better person? Who cares if it's all a sham, ultimately, if it makes you be nice and not lie, steal, kill etc? Or would we be better off in a world where nobody believed any lies and just did whatever the heck they wanted and maybe they would rise to believe in something else and just do things out of some innate human decency ... not because some priest told them to. In other words, in the absence of religion, would humanity descend into absolute chaos / anarchy and die? My cynical nature says it would. Granted, I see living "a lie" and having religion still produces a fair amount of killing and stupid crap because of religion, but I see it as the lesser of two evil. And, to conclude, would I rather be living in the Matrix, eating the steak that tastes like steak but I know it's not steak ... you know, compared with the crappy post apocalyptic no sky people living in bathtubs world ... give me the matrix any day.
Yknow, I'm half serious about this, but take a look at paxil or prozac. Maybe someone can make a mood enhancer drug that gives you the capacity to be okay with life in the absence of God.
And no, I'm not talking about a red or blue pill ... or am I?
since when did the christian science movement become equated with general christianity?
Your doorbell of the future rings. You open your door of the future. Standing outside is a pimply-faced geek whose BMI is entirely too high for that black leather skinsuit he's wearing. He holds out a red pill and a newsletter. "May I interest you in this copy of the watchtower?"
Whoa!
Most movies cover basic themes: "who are we?", "where are we going?", "how do we overcome that problem?", "do these pants make my ass look too fat?". Themes that are common to most religions. Themes that are so engrained into us via our cuilture that they are universal. Because of this anyone of any faith can read into these movies what they want.
Added to this is that most of us are so steeped in our own belief systems/faiths that we have a very hard time NOT seeing the world around us through the filters of our beliefs. Every tree and flower is proof of God's power to a Chrsitian and proof of the complexity and subtlety of nature to an Athiest. Same flower and tree, different filter.
Combine these to factors with a movie that does not make a "this film is about religion X" statement and anyone can use said film project their own faith and glean meaning from it. If you REALLY want to see examples of this, look up some writings about "The Shawshank Redemption".
Is this wrong? I don't know. I find it silly, bit I can't really say that finding wisdom, no matter how unintended, in a film is wrong. I mean, a very good friend of mine found the wisdom to give up wishing for success and actively started to persue his dream after watching "Harold and Maude". Was this silly? Not for him.
As a strugling (and frsutrated writer) I have had people glean meanings from my work that I know damned well I didn't put in.
I did have a point when I started this post...
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
If the server at the Chrstian Science Monitor was slashdotted, would they try to fix it, or just pray for it? Makes me wonder...
... if they see themselves as Christians or not. I'm sure the answer will amuse you.
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0503/matrixrelo aded.html
Choice quotes:
Before transforming into Satan, Reeves' character was named Thomas Anderson to reflect his status as a "Doubting Thomas," someone skeptical of the Lord's Word.
[...]
Upon becoming the Devil, he is renamed "Neo," which literally means "new" and is a prefix for words that reflect new ideas, another attack on Christian thinking.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
The word "christian" in the title of a true journalisitic product may actually be a hidden "blessing"...
The name provides constant reminder to follow the straight and narrow path of journalism, simply from the standpoint that from the very name, one *expects* it NOT to be real journalism.
Clever insight? or clever mistake? You decide.
Christian Science Monitor
I don't care what cultish rituals they dabble, but don't call it science.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
(Taken from evilfinder.)
From the Mormon website: Question: Are you Christians? Answer: Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said: "We are Christians in a very real sense and that is coming to be more and more widely recognized. Once upon a time people everywhere said we are not Christians. They have come to recognize that we are, and that we have a very vital and dynamic religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. So y'know, who's right, you or the Mormons? Pardon me while I get out of the way ...
I just read a fascinating (but somewhat heavy going for the layperson) paper by a professor of Philosophy inspired by the Matrix - I think someone actually linked to it from a previous /. Matrix story. There are lots of similar hypotheses to the idea that we are all brains in vats (or bits in a computer simulation.) For instance, if the god-botherers are right after all and there's a big guy with a white beard and we're all just figments of his imagination, how is this different from the Matrix? What about the Wolfram cellular automata work (and other less well-known work in the same field)? What about advances in cosmology and physics?
/.ers to similar material received with thanks :)
Any pointers from
See also http://www.simulation-argument.com.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
...had many religous overtones.
The most obvious was, of course, the Hasidic Jews (sp?) trying to translate the Koran, but there were many others.
Tai Chi is performed in the park during an early scene.
The processor Max Cohen obtained was called a "mean mecca".
A restated assumption: "Mathmatics is the language of nature" implies that math itself is a religon or meta-religon
Prolly some other religous references that I missed or forgot.
Pi is a good low-budget movie for those that like math, with a good soundtrack for those that like techno. Yeah - I'm waaay offtopic. Sorry
Oh please. ET was Old Yeller except that this time Old Yeller doesn't really die.
red pill, blue pill
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
I think that's the big reason. If you read the Bible literally there's a lot of dry stuff. Insane family trees, people living till 400, who's being flogged, who begat whom, where you can spill your seed etc. There isn't a whole lot of Britney Spears, Playstation 2 or NBA going on in there. So it seems so much of Christianity today is trying to prove (and sometimes grasping at straws) as to why this story from hundreds of years ago has any relevance to today. Or, why people should be spending their Sundays in Church instead of rushing out to see the Matrix for the fifth time.
The author of the article states:
""Star Wars" didn't push the idea of a Jedi Jesus"
What do you call Anakin? The one who "will bring balance to the force", the chosen one, etc. If that is not Jesus-like, I don't know what is. Plus, the dead Jedi seem to rise from the grave, at least in the original trilogy. (Disclaimer: I'm not a Christian, so what do I know)
Don't confuse ethics with religious dogma. There are plenty of occurrences of murder, theft, looting and rape that are *motivated* by religious beliefs. It can make peoples lives unbearable, as much as giving others hope. Many other people (most athiests in fact) will continue to make decisions based on an ethical framework with the good of the individual and society in mind. With no need for deities.
You mean, people usally prefer the blue pill. I have to agree with this.
So...religion is, like, the opiate of the masses or something.
--
bachiatari na torisetsu o yome!
Are you telling me that if the Pope phoned up Bush Jr. and asked for something he'd be told to mind his own god damned business?
I doubt it.
All I'm saying, is, as far as I'm concerned, everyone who claims to "Christian" be they Mormon, Protestant, what have you, believe that Christ was a very important person and what he said is worth believing in. That's all. Tell me how this line of logic is wrong. Do you not believe Christ was a good person? The son of god? Everything else you write about Catholic, Orthodox, personal relationship makes no difference to me. I don't think believeing whether or not Christ is the son of god or if he rose from the dead is important. That's just a niggling detail as far as I'm concerned (and most agnostics would agree, I hate to tell you).
And I do take issue with your last paragraph. I do think a Canadian might be offended if he were called an American, but only if he holds this fact: He does not think highly of Americans. So if a Catholic gets offended if a Mormon is called a Christian, then it's because he doesn't think very highly of Mormons. And THAT superiority complex is something that bugs me to no end.
More recent films, from "Signs" to "Contact" have used a sci-fi setting to discuss serious questions of faith.
Why is this true? Because science and religion are closely entwined--if not the same thing. They are both the search for the truth. There is a reason so many scientific discoveries were made by priests and monks
At some point, the major religions lost the bit about the search, and decided the truth had been found. I think science, as Contact points out, must also acknowledge that not everything is knowable.
This is what is what's is so disturbing about "the origin of the species through evolution" and "creationism" debate where it seems each considers the other "blasphemous". They aren't really so mutually exclusive.
So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
Judging by the number of people I saw in Europe on my last visit I'd say the plague didn't have any long term ill effects.
I'm not saying I would have wanted to be there, I'm just saying that if you step back (way back) and look at the big picture (the really really big picture) if a couple of million (hell even a couple of billion) people were to drop dead tomorrow then life would go on. And even if every human on earth died would that really be so bad?
and the village voice just came out with an article in a similar vein today:
;-P
Hacking the 'Matrix' Master Code
favorite quote:
Consider the messianic thread of "The One." As much as we all like a good Christian allegory, 'The Matrix' doesn't decode like 'The Old Man and the C Drive'. When I asked Laurence Fishburne, who plays Morpheus, if he followed the first flick's philosophy, he announced he'd mused plenty in his life about "all that, you know, spiritual fucking voodoo fucking mumbo jumbo kind of shit."
lol
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You don't read much world news do you, the Pope was against the War in Iraq(tm) and used as much of his influence as possible to keep it from happening. I doubt the phrase mind your own business was used, but the diplo-speak for it most likely was.
This is the second story from a "Christian Science" author I've see in a week here on Slashdot.
I would love to know what relevance articles on religious philosophy have to a technology and geek news site. Some people may find this stuff interesting, but Slashdot shouldn't be posting "Christian science" articles on the frontpage while meanwhile rejecting far more relevant and substantive article submissions.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
I might be feeding the trolls here, but since some reasonable people have said variants on this theme, let's try a variant or two...
"If you are trying to learn from a book designed for entertainment, then..."
Holy crap! There goes literature. Whoops, so much for high school english classes reading the classics.
"If you are trying to learn from a piece of music designed for entertainment, then..."
Well, hell. I guess I can't learn anything about musical styles and chording from anything other than example pieces specifically designed for music theory classes.
Any creative work is going to have the potential for underlying deeper meanings. And if you enjoy finding them, more power to yah. If you don't, and just like being spoon-fed, that's fine too. But quit flaming the people who like a bit of depth, even if they have to make it themselves.
"America has done some terrible things. But I know that Americans don't cheer when innocents die." -Dave Barry
Is RMS behind this?
"Next we have the sexual criminals... (stuff cut) ...No, not those people. The rapists and child molesters... those hopeless romantics. We could just ban religion, and those crimes would go away in a generation or two, but we don't have time for rational solutions"
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
Did you know that the Reloaded movie can be seen on Wednesday the 14th (10:00 PM) in some theatres? I got my tickets in advance for that show
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
Personally, I am impressed by the themes and symbols interwoven in slashdot. For instance, look at the name itself. "Slash"--in ancient Latin this implies a decrease and "dot"---Greek for really small. This implies the quest for the ever smaller, to look beyond minutia with a trained eye. Buddhist if I ever saw it. Then, there is all the bad spelling and grammer, even found in this post. This is the Post-modern idea that we live in an imperfect world, and there is nothing we can do to fix it. But, oh, the Christian irony since spell checkers do exist and we can be saved if only you take the effort to love what is beyond yourself. Oh, I could go on. And, if I was an English major, I would. But to suffice it to say, if you have a million philosophers look at something for a million hours, they will find it to be profound, no matter what it is. As Frued could have said, "Sometimes a posting is just a posting." -Iowa
"He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."-Cap
Balance this possible outcome with the reality of how many people religious beliefs kill and it looks pretty good even in the short term.
I agree with this to the degree that some people do read too much into these things. And trust me, I'm not proposing that people take the "philospohy" of The Matrix as their rules to live by, but many people are only watching half the movie if they refuse to see that their is some symbolic meaning to what is happening on screen.
Does that new Matrix icon look like a blue mouth sticking it's tongue out at you?
If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
I love Sherlock Holmes, I can almost name the story for any quote, well almost ... and I can understand amusing oneself trying to put the stories in chronologial order, figure out the named but unwritten mysteries, etc., but the Baker Street Irregulars take it so far as to be obsessed into thinking that inconsistencies are intentional by Watson to throw readers off the track, to postulate printer errors, etc. You've got to know where to draw the line.
Infuriate left and right
if(JesusExists)
Christian Science = !Biology
Else
TheJewsWereRight = true;
Vonal Declosion
I found this: http://www.geocities.com/fsf_hammerwell/MatrixRPGT itlePage.html
And that is exactly my point. Who am I to say that just because I didn't put a spark of wisdom in my work that people can not find wisdom there? Yeah, it bugged the crap out of me when a class full of other writing students found religious wisdom in a grand farce I wrote, but who am I to tell them they can't enrich themselves?
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
That's what the author of that article is. Numerology?? For pity's sake! There is a point where you should stop looking for easter eggs and hidden meaning and enjoy the show.
Eat at Joe's.
Blaise Pascal (the Pascal that the language was named for, so yes, this is a "nerd post" :-) asked centuries ago, "Are you better off if you act as if there is a God, whether or not there actually is?"
This question is generally called Pascal's Wager, and the answer he came to was, "Yes."
-Dejaffa
There is no 'i' in team, but there is in fiasco...
There are other, older movies than The Lord of the Rings and The Matrix that can map to Christian symbolism.
Examples:
In the first Conan the Barbarian movie, Conan is tied to a tree (crucified), dies, and then rises from the dead.
In ET, ET performs various miracles, dies (or seems dead, I haven't seen it in a while) and then Ascends into the heavens. Before he leaves he says to Eliot that he would be with him always in Eliot's heart (soul).
Also there were the adds for the movie which are imitations of Michalangelo's Creation of Adam where God gives Adam life by touching his outstretched finger.
Another little one is in some versions of Blade Runner (depends on which cut of the movie you see), at the end Roy, the last replicant, is malfunctioning, his muscles are locking up. He takes a big, ugly looking nail and shoves it through his palm to get his hands working again. This is meant to remind you of the crucification and make you feel that his death is unfair.
Roy also releases a dove when he dies. A dove is the symbol for the Holy Spirit, it could represent the idea that he has a soul, which,as a replicant he is not supposed to have, or it could mean that he is a Christ figure.
Anyway, this sort of thing is common in all entertainment, especially with the kind you can watch more than once. Each time you watch it you pick up another level of meaning (only some of which may be religious).
First Slashdot Post, I had to do it
Step 1: You surf the web and gather info about The Matrix, then write a story on it.
Step 2: I'll submit it to slashdot
Step 3: Profit!!
...and it was Extreme and Fresh, Dog.
Have you seen MTV's adds for MTV? It does a fair amount of preaching to the converted.
The message they offer kids isn't only, "Get your entertainment here! Hurry, while it's hot." They preach that the kids can not only make a difference, but that the future lies in their hands. Maybe a glowing box telling kids that they're the chosen people isn't as religious as a burning bush without endorsments, but it appeals to the same aspect of humanity: A hope for a better tomorrow.
You first. I'll off myself if you do.
Really.
Trust me.
As regards parent posts: you're willing to off some immense portion of humanity - let's be very conservative, and say at least 50% - just to get rid of religious belief? You really need to pause and re-think your moral system.
I'm 17 and in high-school.. /.).. You've just insulted yourself while trying to insult me.
I don't know what I did to you, or what personal problem you're taking your anger out on me because.. but you need to realize what you just did:
You insulted somebody you don't know, for a reason you can't explain, AND it was done over the internet (while not logged in to
The name? What does my nick have to do with anything I've posted?
*sigh*
I really have no idea what I am talking about.
Funny, the allegory I saw in the Matrix was capitalism. The humans in their pods are the wage slaves and the machines living off them are the capitalist elite. The matrix is the corporate media working to hide the true nature of their situation from slaves and keep them distracted and entertained. The agents are the police using violence to control those you question the system. This all works on many levels since the "reality" that the matrix is simulating is a capitalist society itself.
While it is likely that this allegory is "probably inadvertent" seeing as Hollywood is part of the Matrix of the real world and not prone to spreading such thoughtcrime, it may be that the original idea came from someone who had this allegory in mind and some of it has survived in the Wachowski brothers script.
In addition the all the religious conections the film also seems to appeal to fans of Nietzsche, so perhaps in the end the reason for its popularity is that it has something for everyone in it and it is subtle enough not to push any of its possible messages down anyones throat.
Let's not rely on the author's math abilities. If he's in apartment 101, I don't take it to mean he "the one", I take it to mean he's "the five".
This is about as in depth as I go with the religious aspect of it. I think any religious undertones are meant solely to confuse those who think that they are on the 'inside track' when it comes to finding 'truth' and 'the word of god' working in 'mysterious ways.' come on people, any similarity to events or characters real or ficitional is purely to suck the money out of your wallet. I'm sure it's intentional, and there is no official reference to any particular religion because that way, you might be dumb enough to think that they are talking about YOUR religion, and that finally someone in hollywood is doing the 'right thing' for good reasons other than money. Get real.
Speak for yourself.
Neo reluctantly accepts his mission to free the human race.
Ooooh. If only i could I would fly out of this godsforsaken cubicle on the 39th floor and free the rats of downtown areas everywhere!
Then proceed to toture my boss...
Maybe I'll just stick to entreprenuership.
no No NO. I didn't say I/we should off half the worlds population to get rid of religion, I'm just saying if a random 50% of people died tomorrow then life would still go on. If life (human) didn't go on then life would still go on. If you catch my meaning. Which I doubt considering your post.
In the word's of the immortal Darla of Fallout 2, "I don't give a radrat's ass"
Truer words were never spoken.
...
7154: Prophet!
Campbell's thesis is not particularly religious, but rather that groups of people create similar myths. Campbell, like Jung, arrives at this conclusion through comparative mythology.
That the same archetypes should emerge in the dominant storytelling medium of the day--sci fi movies--is not surprising. Believe it or not, Hollywood draws heavily on Joe Campbell, all the time . Even the fact that Hollywood stories are so formulaic is evidence of this: there's always The Hero, The Trickster, The Seductress, The Higher Power, etc. It's the very familiarity of these archetypes that make these modern-day myths so compelling.
Most Hollywood movies, however, stay within the conventions of the archetypes and their stories, rather than raising questions about art, artifice, consciousness, myth and reality. Hollywood movies work within dramatic and myth-making conventions, whereas The Matrix is about getting behind and beyond the masks, which is what is so fascinating about it. The Matrix chooses Gnostic Christian forms for its own mask, rather than the forms we're more familiar with from schul , catechism class, Sunday School, etc. The choice of gnostic forms allows them to get much closer to eastern philosophies, while dodging doctrinal disputes. Skillful means, grasshopper.
One thing I was surprised to see undiscussed in the CSM article was really the central theme of the Matrix, and also the unifying principle in all religions: compassion. The AI simulacra, The Smiths, lack compassion, and his is what makes them, and the artificial world they have constructed, so inhuman, so terrifying and so inhumane.
The "is it live, or is it Memorex" debate is begging the question, really. It duss jusn't matter. Also, I wish that they'd used Peter Gabriel's song Mercy Street just once.
They also have much better INSIGHT into spelling.
You're completely wrong, it's utterly Evil!
**** THE PROOF THAT The Matrix IS EVIL ****
T H E M A T R I X
84 72 69 77 65 84 82 73 88 - as ASCII values
3 9 6 5 2 3 1 1 7 - digits added
\_____/ \_____/ \_____/ \_____/ \_/
3 2 5 2 7 - digits added
Thus, "The Matrix" is 32527.
Turn the number backwards, and add 11 - the symbol of judgment and disorder. The number is now 72534.
Divide the number by 002 - this is the symbol of greed, backwards. It gives 36267.
Subtract 1789, the year of French Revolution, a bloody farce engineered by the Illuminati. The result will be 34478.
Subtract 9291 from the number - this is the year Bingo was invented, taking many lives in years to come, written backwards. It gives 25187.
Subtract 1977, the year Elvis left the planet. The result will be 23210.
This, when read backwards, gives 01232. This is 666 in octal, the number of the Beast...
Evil, QED.
Courtesy of the Evil Finder at http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/evilfinder/
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
Forget the Christianity for a second. What about something more relevant to /.: computer science allusions in the Matrix? A few obvious ones were the name Cypher as in cypherpunk, the sentinel robots as in sentinel values in computer programs, the agents as in agent-based programming.
Another point missing from the article: Trinity is also the name of the first atom bomb test site. Multivocality is always the earmark of a good symbol. Why can't things mean more than one thing at once? For instance, Zion is also a symbol for the Rastafarians. Dozer and Tank, the Zion natives, seem at least as Rasta as Biblical, to me.
I'm sure there are other computer science allusions, beyond the Matrix itself and the general cyberpunk-jacking-in stuff. I'd be interested in hearing about any more folks might have noticed.
Think, write, think, edit, think...then post.
I think more than needing something to "cling" to is the need to understand WHY we're here. So far, religion is the only place I think answers that question the most. I don't see science or choosing certain "ideals" answers that question at all. Without that, people are just living day to day for sake of living. What a depressing way to live life.
If you can explain the reason why we're here, besides "to reproduce", I'm all ears.
Yes, but that in and of itself is short sighted. Im saying that large percentages of the human population dying would cause a dark age of indetermanite length (probably ~1000 years) If the price of avoiding a thousand years of human misery is thinking up new ways to protect the environment or cure aids or SARS or Ebola while allowing population to increase, than thats what weve got to do.
And even if every human on earth died would that really be so bad?
You go first. ;-)
Neo, I think, is just an anagram of 'One'... as in He Is The One.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newletter.
why run from Vincenzo?
My redhat cluster
cluter alias matrix
[root@trinity root]# uptime
2:49pm up 10 days, 23:10, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.01, 0.00
[root@neo root]# uptime
2:47pm up 8 days, 4:15, 1 user, load average: 0.11, 0.11, 0.09
Got Code?
This is a case of Matrix overloaded and short circuit in the writer's brain.
"Lofty Metaphysics"??
Puh-lease! Lofty if you're a precious 16 year old!
Oh way, this is the work of a matrix fan, nevermind...
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Well, yeah, the WHY is all about philosophy - the intangibles.
But I see no reason why that must be wrapped into an organized religion, let alone an organized theist religion.
For instance, a Christian might thing that they must live a virtuous life to get into heaven. A humanist might believe in the inherent goodness in humanity and that to make thier life worthwhile, they must do enough good things for others that their legacy will be a better world. A scientist might view the discovery of knowledge as an end in and of itself. A capitalist might think the same thing about money. And Frank The Village Nut might spend his whole life tending after the dandelions in the park because he thinks they are beautiful and must be protected - who knows.
But in all those cases - organized, religious, spiritual, or very personal (ala Frank), that person would have the potential to live a useful, productive life with a meaning that "did it" for them.
That at least answers the WHY question in terms of "what purposeful pursuit should I use to guide me life, and why?". The aspect of the question "What has caused our existence and conciousness to come about" - that aspect I would argue has no bearing on actually living your life. I have strong, personal, always evolving ideas about how and why to live my life (culled from different philosophies, religions, life experiences, examples of people I love and respect, etc), but I couldn't give a shit WHY we're all here - I'll never know even close to conclusivly, and it really has no bearing on what I do with my life.
_sig_ is away
No mention of how Neo popping Agent Smith at the end in the article!
Let God into your heart in and evil gets vanquished. Poof.
I'm also surprised that there's no mention of Neo (as well as all the other Matrixians) being an immaculate conception. Presumably, everyone in the Matrix is born without the original sin, right?
-- Dossy
Dossy's Blog
Dark ages for humans maybe.
Define misery. I think that doubling my space on the planet and doubly resources would make for prosperity not dark ages. Look at places with insanse population densities and now picture half of those people gone (try to think of how they're gone, just that they are), the other (lucky) half would have significantly better standard of living.
Searching for this book on Google gave this:
I can heartily recommend the book (having only read the German translation, alas) and definitely the 1973 TV-serialization (well, two parts, total duration 205 minutes according to imdb) if you can find it. This is one book I would not be surprised if I opened it one day to reread it, only to find all text has disappeared - deleted.
As for the Matrix (reloaded or not), I don't think I will bother. No amount of Kung Foo can be a match for the psychological mindbending acting by Klaus Loewitsch under Fassbinder's direction.
With ID4 being a remake of the 1950'es movie version of WotW, itself being a mediocre US-centric movie-rendition of H.G. Wells' classic, and so on and so forth, I am coming to the conclusion that good sf has not really been made since the 70'es.
By all means, prove me false.
-Lasse
That's better than I've been trying to say myself. Thanks.
What did the author mean by
explain the author's use of metaphor in
What symbolism was the author invoking with
He says that he had no answer to more than half the questions.
In my world:
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
If the shortest passage in the Christian Bible is "Jesus Wept", would that make the shortest passage in the "Bible of Neo be "Whoa"?
Just wondering.
-Goran
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
Aren't Christians.
Firstly, disease spreads faster in densely populated areas.
Secondly, 20% is a ratio, it doesn't matter how big the population is. Less living = less mouths to feed.
As for the fields: It is wise to keep emergency supplies. Plus a private veggie garden shouldn't be too much hassle to maintain.
Even given all that, declining populations cant support growing ecconomies without miraculous increases in productivity, and increases in productivity arent as likely because there are simply less people to be innovative and come up with new ideas.
Why would the economy need to grow while the population declines? A plagued country is not in a position to sell goods anyway.
New ideas are not necessary for an increase in productivity. Doing things in bulk isn't new.
Why did GEAR crush RDP?
The christina science moniter gets many award for journalism for its accuracy and being non biased. And if any of you actually research christian science a little, you'll find it is very much christina and science, in that it brings the two together.
or at least circular. You are defining Christianity by what you've decided it's not, namely Mormonism. Hence, the statement "if you define Christianity that way, then Mormons are too!"
Well, show me the part of the Bible that explicitly lends credence to the Trinity. It's not there. It was assimilated into Christianity from pagan religions and not from any writings or traditions handed down by either Judaism or the Apostles.
If Protestants are going to insist on a Bible-based interpretation of Christianity, they are going to have to rectify that with traditional beliefs like the Trinity or Platonic Dualism, neither of which have any basis in the Bible.
My apologies if you are Catholic, in which case you do have a religious basis for claiming Trinity necessary for belief in Christ. However, that does nothing to convince people who don't hold tradition (or some guy in a big hat) to hold some perfect truth about religion.
Keanu is on Charlie Rose tonight (assuming you have tv and pbs station, but the show will be archived in Real I think)--saw a clip and I swear to God he's like talking about his [Neo's] awakening like its the Heart Sutra or something--Fishburne wants to see it in mythic heroic terms, but Keanu is like insisting on an enlightened reading. And like he glows when he says "Love" like he really enjoys being messianic--kind of embarrassing, good thing Fishburne is there.
Aside, all are of the actors reading from the same script? What if WB gave each actor a completely different reading list? Mmmm, postmodernism.
Back to this love business, it occurs to me the christians will see Love in the Matrix as Good News. Good for them. It's not like its bad news. But the Monitor seriously misrepresented Buddhism on this. It's kinda true that ignorance is the root of all suffering according to Buddhists, but not if you mistake Buddhist awareness for a state of mind. Mind is clutter, self-serving. Perfect wisdom is not divorced from compassion.
... is a great example of why I am agnostic, and proud of it!
the matrix was more synonymous of capitalist society than religion. Most of the population except the few that took psychedelic drugs were oblivious to the facts that they were living in a dream work constructed to make them live out their lives, working, keeping busy, but never knowing the truth.
In our society we try to make more jobs, more work, for people to do. This is so they can eat, right? Wrong. We have the technology to automate the production of food. Meaning if we put the thought, time and resources behind it we could give everyone the food they need to live without asking for money in return.
Do most people do productive jobs or are they some psychology major sitting in some marketting department thinking up new ways to get people to spend their money?
I think the message in The Matrix is society doesn't have to be a complex matrix of propoganda designed to keep us independant and greedy. Society could be anything we want to make of it.
Is it logical to raise cows so every human can eat a steak? No. But some people would rather live in a society that would destroy our environment so they could eat steak everynight, blissfully ignorant of reality.
Alright, I have read plenty of articles of people looking for deeper meanings in clouds and burning homes and even in mashed potatoes (ok, so that may have been a movie). My point is that no matter where a, and I quote a zealot looks, they will most certainly find a "deeper" meaning. I've heard one of my (bless her heart, as my g-ma would say) good friends who just happens to worship the ground G-d walks on (or doesn't) say that she has seen Jesus while she was riding her bike to school. It's a funny thing how humans find a need for that kind of thing. I don't buy the idea that the Matrix holds deeper meaning for Christianity or Buddhism or whatever. I do feel, however that there is a basic need to feel needed and important. One can look at ancient stories from pre-christianity that describe the same type of events. Come on, look at the Egyptian stories!
"Numerology: Neo's apartment number is 101, suggesting that he's "the one"."
Funny, I always thought it meant he was the five.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
and so freedom becomes the right to eat steak everynight but not the right to take psychedelic drugs.
the time between neo's death and "rebirth" is not 72 seconds but 85 seconds. i just measured it.
...
so far about the facts
Have you ever actually read, or seen, Old Yeller? The boy shoots his own dog, remember? It's a great and powerful story, but it's not E.T.
The movie is fun, but:
http://www.dance-of-ecstasy.net/dance/0302.html
Will you all with mod points get a freaking clue? Or do you all just want to run around with your heads up your asses and your feet in your mouths?
There is nothing funny about the parent post. The poster was not making a joke. The poster was providing factual information.
Do us all a favor: If you have no idea of what the poster is talking about, don't make yourself look like an idiot by modding them incorrectly.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
p != NULL is so amateurish #include void main() { char s[] = "Ted Is A Tard"; char *p = s; while(*p) putchar(*p++); }
Yeah, you should RTFA... and its terms next time!
Costs $40 to post text from the article on the Internet. And that's just for one month.
So, here's a watchword for you and all your friends to remember:
Don't mess with the CSM; we will hunt you down!
You can say you're a Christian all day long, but that doesn't make you one either. You won't REALLY know in your entire lifetime, until you kick the bucket.
Praise Yahweh or he'll kick you in the nuts and poop on your face.
I've got a startling essay from a film expert who gets into some of the "deeper meaning" of the Matrix films, and trust me, it has nothing to do with spirituality:
50 Reasons to Avoid The Matrix
I don't agree with every point made, but I've heard from a lot of fans, and have seen a lot of changed minds. He's got a petition going, and I think Warner Bros. is in for a serious surprise when they get it.
Phallic Symbols in LOTR
So, if everybody looted, commerce would crumble, and everybody would be unable to purchase what they needed. OK, put a check in the 'Bad' column next to looting - it's not a scalable behavior.
So why is a world where commerce crumbles bad? If you say that, you're imposing a particular set of values arbitrarily. And to decide that one value is objectively better that another requires something akin to faith.
So we all have some kind of religion. We just disagree about which one is best or most true.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
XML Tools for Mac OS X
http://fuxoft.cz/tmp/sillywalk.jpg
The movie is fun, but: http://www.dance-of-ecstasy.net/dance/0302.html
I remember seeing an article on how Bender from 'Futurama' was a metaphor for the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Dolemite
______________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
You are posting on Slashdot. You will be insulted. It's just part of the turf. Get used to it.
This movie is a bit of fun, but:
http://www.dance-of-ecstasy.net/dance/0302.html
Or the 101st depending on your point of view
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
That spells out the word God.
Coincidence?
I think not!
Louis Farakhan, is that you?!
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
Perhaps if you'd paid attention in those literature classes you dismiss, you'd have noted that I said
"Any creative work is going to have the potential for underlying deeper meanings."
My statement was not absolute, despite your attempt to treat it as such.
In general, no one cares about your flames until you earn some credibility. As it stands, all you've done is prove yourself incapable of basic reading comprehension.
BTW, which is worse, a geeky useless hobby or flaming said hobbies as a hobby in and of itself?
"America has done some terrible things. But I know that Americans don't cheer when innocents die." -Dave Barry
http://www.dance-of-ecstasy.net/dance/0302.html
NEO rearranged is ONE, as in "The ONE"... blah blah, there are tons of these, don't get worked up over it.
so uhm... all art is dreck, huh...
Your life must be full of wonderful, happy things.
IAALS.
Aside from the fact that I'm not sure what your hybdrid "Neo-chadnezzar" name is really supposed to mean, there's two inherent thing wrong with your new name.
1) The obvious: Neo literally means new, not one. Take the next step and your name now becomes "new protects the crown".
2) Not so obvious: Both words/name meanings are derived from completely different languages. "Nebuchadnezzar" is Akkadian in origin and "Neo" is Greek in origin.
while( this->money > 0 )
{
ChargeAdmission();
}
hard core geek-ware
They did get
Neo == Jesus
But somehow they missed
Morpheus == God the Father
Trinity == The Holy Spirit
If you look at their roles in the movies these fall out pretty obviously, but if people reply and ask for supporting evidence I suppose I'll post it.
the matrix was more synonymous of capitalist society than religion.
You're not the only one to think that
I believe you got it wrong...
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
7 - g
15 - o
4 - d
It's not ASCII, its the freakin' alphabet, try using your own link before discounting the geekablity of others...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
>Any TRUE disciple knows you need to ROT13 first.
I have a pattent pending on the use of "rotation" of a list of elements to enact encryption "rot-n encryption" and I find you to be in violation of that patent. Please make a check payable to me for $1,000,000 at your earliest convenience
Sitting Walrus Blog
Isn't that how Scientology started? L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer who was taken just a bit too seriously. Kinda like the whole Jedi thing and now Matrix too.
So why is a world where commerce crumbles bad? If you say that, you're imposing a particular set of values arbitrarily. And to decide that one value is objectively better that another requires something akin to faith.
:)
That's true, I'm assuming the value of human life is significant. If you don't have commerce, you either don't have division of labor or you have a socialist dictatorship of some sort.
Dictatorships tend to kill lots of people just to maintain power, so we can rule that one out.
If you don't have division of labor, you don't get medicine, for example, which saves millions of lives a year. You also wind up with a polluted environment since everybody has to provide their own power, mostly by burning forests. It may have been managable with lower population levels, but not today. Unless you want to get rid of a few billion people.
Commerce has sprung up in every human civilization, even those that sought to supress it. I think there's enough evidence to say it's human nature. I guess I'm assuming civilization is a good thing. It would be ironic for someone using Slashdot and the complex set of systems that make it possible to argue against civilization, though.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
The Matrix isn't based on any real philosophy---the writers just happened to stumble onto some material that, when taken in hindsight, is ambigious enough to be reinterpreted into Plato's Theory of the Forms, Descartes' evil demon, Nietzsche's overman (heh, try *that one* on for size :), and of course the crusifixion of Christ. *That* is how vague the movie is on philosophical grounds. This leads me to believe that the writers of the first movie have little to no clue what it is that they stumbled upon and all them people who leave the movie "Whoa, whodathunk?" are in serious need for real philosophy :)
It gets far more wacky than anything you will find on the Matrix. Neo confused a pot hole for a rabbit hole.
Some authors recognize that and succeed; others don't and fail.
Bah! If people think The Matrix has Christian parallels, they should check out Chrono Trigger (an old SNES RPG, IMHO one of the best RPGs ever). Or at least look at this site: The Chrono Trigger Testament.
#include "sig.h"
I know something about Dianetics & Scientology, & I looked for any sign of these inventions of Hubbard in the movie, & I could not see any. Unless achieving ``Clear" somehow involves having a bad haircut.
FWIW, the most common criticism I've encountered of Battlefield Earth was that it strained the viewer's credulity too many times.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Oh, I can explain it. Your writings on the wall reek of you being a complete fuck.
And now it is clear: you are a whiney little fuck.
Your continued speaking will serve as a testament to your complete sucktitude, and your assertion that somehow I am insulting myself by going for your soft thin skinned throat is total fucking bull and YOU KNOW IT.
So listen you mealy mouthed pimply little sexless geek fucking wannabe, I have a suggestion, go suck the shit from a pig's ass.
I don't have to login to nail your ass, and I don't owe you an explanation other than the one I already gave. Just to know, I am me, I am a strange ethereal power here. And I have other account, karma capped of course, but in this incarnation, I am far more reckless and free of the promethean chains of oppression that the slashbotting group-thinking mediocritomaton army of slashdotting fag sexless geeks and their proto-communist moderation censorship.
VAE VICTUS, bastard!
Tell that to those that read the bible... It's just a book, right?
I can't believe anyone takes this article seriously.
Neo had to be "born again" before he could begin his mission.
(Cypher) At one point he exclaims, "Whoa, Neo. You scared the bejeezus out of me."
Literally meaning "new," Neo is also referred to as the "One," which is an anagram for Neo.
Neo's apartment number is 101, suggesting that he's "the one." Neo is shot in apartment number 303, and after 72 seconds (72 hours = 3 days), he rises again.
In keeping with prophetic tradition, Neo is "called" to his task, not by a burning bush, but a FedEx employee. Their brief exchange - "Thomas Anderson?" | "Yeah, that's me." - mirrors Bible language constructions used to signify special identity.
Neo deepens the mystery of who Trinity is when he says to her, "I just thought, um...you were a guy."
But by altering the logo - from the Greek term "logos," for word - the film's opening does two things. First, it corrupts the Gospel of John, which begins with "In the beginning was the Word...". Second, it asserts that metaphysical meaning can be gleaned by mining deep into words, or code.
For those of you who are blinded: this is bullshit! Someone went looking for a whole shitload of coincidences (amongst other things) to try and make a science fiction movie out to be something it's not. Sure, they may have borrowed a few names and concepts from religions, but THAT'S IT. This article is about as insightful as the crud I picked outta my crack in the shower.
Fuck!
You call yourself a gamer. What a fag. I could kick your ass in a PVP FPS and I don't call myself a fag gamer. Pussy bitch fuckwad suckball.
What would I do without Stu "AJMadre" to provide me with a non-stop source of sappy, scornful notions to complain about? Wait! Before you dismiss me as inarticulate, hear me out. He is too self-satisfied to read the writing on the wall. This writing warns that he doesn't care about freedom, as he can neither eat it nor put it in the bank. It's just a word to him. If Stu "AJMadre" ever claims that merit is adequately measured by his methods and qualifications, we must answer only one thing: "No, the reverse is true." He behaves as if he's been lobotomized. The reason is clear. You might say, "His theories are a blockish orgy of antipluralism." Fine, I agree. But if one accepts the framework I've laid out here, it follows that he thinks that violence and prejudice are funny. However, the sadistic nature of his ideologies distracts us from the real lessons we could learn from a rigorous critique of Stu "AJMadre"'s scare tactics.
There is a format Stu "AJMadre" should follow for his next literary endeavor. It involves a topic sentence and supporting facts. I'm not the first to mention that we are observing the change in our society's philosophy and values from freedom and justice to corruption, decay, cynicism, and injustice. All of these "values" are artistically incorporated in one person: Stu "AJMadre".
In any case, he teaches workshops on clericalism. Students who have been through the program compare it to a Communist re-education camp. Stu "AJMadre" thinks we want him to fuel inquisitions. Excuse me, but maybe he is typical of unpleasant, irresponsible voluptuaries in his wild invocations to the irrational, the magic, and the fantastic to dramatize his wisecracks. Life isn't fair. We've all known this since the beginning of time, so why is he so compelled to complain about situations over which he has no control? I once asked Stu "AJMadre" that question -- I am still waiting for an answer. In the meantime, let me point out that to believe that the ideas of "freedom" and "tribalism" are Siamese twins is to deceive ourselves.
This seems so obvious, I am amazed there is even any discussion about it. Common-sense understanding of human nature tells us that Stu "AJMadre" ignores a breathtaking number of facts, most notably:
Fact: A deep, ineradicable hatred of everything that is not salacious energizes Stu "AJMadre" to burn our fair cities to the ground.
Fact: I cannot, in good conscience, step aside and let the worst classes of ill-bred neocolonialism enthusiasts there are prosecute, sentence, and label people as immoral sensualists without the benefit of any evidence whatsoever.
Fact: His representatives are brainwashed automatons programmed to spout line after line of pro-Stu "AJMadre" propaganda.
In addition, if you can go more than a minute without hearing Stu "AJMadre" talk about metagrobolism, you're either deaf, dumb, or in a serious case of denial. Whenever there's an argument about his devotion to principles and to freedom, all one has to do is point out that once he accepts responsibility for the problems he's caused, the focus shifts from who is responsible to what each of us can do about it. That should settle the argument pretty quickly.
I do not propose a supernatural solution to the problems we're having with Stu "AJMadre". Instead, I propose a practical, realistic, down-to-earth approach that requires only that I draw an accurate portrait of his ideological alignment. All he really wants is to hang onto the perks he's getting from the system. That's all he really cares about. Stu "AJMadre" is driving me nuts. I can't take it anymore! It is probably unwise to say this loudly, but if we let him oppose the visceral views of 98 percent of the nation's citizens, all we'll have to look forward to in the future is a public realm devoid of culture and a narrow and routinized professional life untouched by the highest creations of civilization.
It has been said that Stu "AJMadre"'s subordinates are so ready to help the worst sorts of yellow-bellied f
1) The obvious: Neo literally means new, not one. Take the next step and your name now becomes "new protects the crown".
If trying to defend my previous thesis to the teeth, I'd be inclined to say that the name would then translate as "new protector (holder?) of the crown".
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
"People who want to share their religious views with you almost never want you to share yours with them."
-- Dave Barry, "25 Things I Have Learned in 50 Years"
BUT! there is only one morality in The Matrix: Might makes right. Even in a complex world where they are supposed to be just thought, the question of who determines the future of the universe is still only who can kick the most ass.
I found the glossary in TFA to speak more about the ability of humans to see patterns where none exist. While there is no doubt that film makers like to sneak "cool shit" into their films, I think the author reads too much into Matrix. (That or he wants to justify watching the film)
I'll be convinced if in the next film the Oracle gives Neo a Torilla with the face of Jesus toasted on it.
Oh yeah, and part of good art is the ability to leave open ended symbolism that deeply connects with people. You don't need to understand why something works, only be able to spot and use such elements effectively.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Please enlighten me with your examples of "racist" things Jesus taught.
And I will never be the same again... My life would be ten times better if I hadn't. I've managed to not click on it several times but it was too long.
Hmmm... Pie...
Further more to your point, its actually kinda worrying that some people need the "fear of god" to keep them ethical.
The movie industry would make much better movies if they paid closer attention to the language and themes of the ancient Greek tragedies because these stories hit upon some major archetypes.
our dream world is the image of the perfect life, the perfect body, and the utopian world which will will live if we buy this product for $99.95
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
With one more post, this article will be at 666 total. Muahahahaha.
So even if a voice called out from heaven saying, "God will now drop Australia into the Atlantic Ocean", and then Australia did drop into the Atlantic, you would ignore the possibility that a miracle had occurred, since as far as you're concerned that would be absolutely impossible.
I think that might convince me...
The miracles that the Vatican uses as evidence for sainthood generally involve an "impossible" cure (as far as modern medecine is concerned), preceded by someone asking a particular candidate for sainthood to ask God for the healing in question.
Modern medicine is FAR from a perfect science. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand it (My father is a medical school professor...) but one thing that is well known is that the mind can have amaizing effects on the body. If a patient believes that someone is coming to heal them can perform miracles, then the belief can effect the healing.
Even this is a more simple explanation than a god.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
You finished A+ in 12 mins. Oh be still my beating heart. What the fuck are you? A braggart know nothing puke or just a know nothing puke having a "good day."
Shut your fucking mouth you stupid, retarded fucker. You know jack shit about anything involving computers, you should know that firm and fast.
Fuckin pussy.
Why must we always cloak our guilty pleasures in layers of "meaning?" (Probably something to do with our Judaeo-Christian mores, but I'll leave that to the armchair theologians and film-makers to posit upon...)
You just reminded me of something that happened to me in highschool. We were doing yet another unit in English class on popular culture (yes, the highschools here in the US are really that bad) and the teacher was asking us what shows we liked. I replied that I liked Knight Rider and she asked me why. I was like "it's fun to just sit there and watch it". She was like "so, do you identify with Michael Knight" to which I replied "no, I wouldn't want to be him. He's always getting shot at and stuff". Perhaps thinking I was missing the point, she pressed on, asking something along the line of "do you like to imagine you're the hero" and I replied--I swear I'm not making this up--"no, it's just a TV show. It's fun to veg out, shut my brain off for a while and watch it".
The other students laughed; I think they were laughing at me for admitting this, but I think they probably all knew it was true.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Don't you dare treat us like uninformed children - just because slashdot has more people of a similar belief to yours (atheism I assume) does not mean you can patronise us. You are alone in the world not believing in God. Almost every wise or intelligent man around the world believes in God. Where do you stand?
You think I haven't spent time to research what I believe? To be sure of these things that I'm not believing a lie? You think that your position is so secure? Religion is NOT just to keep people sane and controlled.
I think you are quite proud to believe that you are wise enough to have stumbled on a truth that your ancestors had neglected to see. I'm guessing here - but just because your encounter with religious types has resulted in confirming your intelligence does not mean that there isn't someone out there who could stand up to you. I think, I learn, I understand. I respect pure logic, reason. I want to know the truth.
At any rate: these comments of yours are pure pride and fantasy.
Mod that shit up to 6, man. Shut up all of thse dorks talking about how "deep" a movie the matrix is.
Yeap, and 303 is HTTP 303 "See Other" -- Neo has to go to that hotel room because the phone Trinity and Morpheus used was destroyed...in a way a redirect :P
Look that up for yourself.
That write up is a total white wash. They don't even come close to touching on the truth of the matter, they intentionally mislead people away from the truth.
This movie is such a disgusting display of ZIONIST propaganda it's stomach wrenching.
This nothing but a PRO-JEWISH, ZIONIST bunch of trash that it take a totally blind man to not see it the messages they are planting in the minds of the GOY...
Consider that as you inhale the stench of this zionist propaganda movie. Remember, you movie $$ go directly to Israel where they are used to terrorize and murder civilian Palestinians in the Holy Land.
John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
"hymeis ek tou patros tou diabolou este"
Jesus reveals his identity and the identity of the Jews.
I tend to believe that everyone "psyches" themselves out in order to function properly in the world - humans are highly adaptable. Some chose or are taught to believe in god others reject belief in god and instead turn to "just trying to live the best life i can" or "try to make the world a better place for the children" or "devote themselves to scientific progress" or even the silly idea of karma (popular for some reason with "intellectuals"). I think everyone does this as a survival mechanism - the alternative is just too damn dreary.
I've given this some thought, and maybe i am just an aweful person, but if when you die that's really the end, then quite frankly i don't give a rats ass about any of you suckers. Why would i care? I no longer exist. A big freaken meteor can come and destroy the planet and i am not bothered one bit by this - because i no longer exist. I might help science along for what it can get me (fame, money, power, sex, whatever), but why would i care if my chidren live happier, longer lives? because of some internal desire to see the human race continue on after i am gone? where is this desire manufactured? is it merely the remnants of some deep animal instinct for survival of the pack? how is belief in "humanity" any less silly than, say, "religion". it is pure fantasy to think that you're going to somehow benefit from your work once your dead...yet many "intellectuals" admit that they do what they do for the "greater good"...what a crock...
no doubt many will misinterpret what i an saying. i am not saying we need religion in order to live moral/ethical lives. I am saying humans need something - if not religion, then something else. religion may be opiate for the masses, but the intellectual minority has their own opiates, and just like the religious, they do not enjoy having this fact pointed out.
I'll state for the record that I didn't write a damn thing.
"The Matrix" made $170 million domestic and $270 million international up to this point. Now that people have tasted the fruits of the Wachowski brothers of Chicago (sweet home) "Reloaded" will top that mark. Personally I think I am making a bold statement because it is impossible to make a sequel to the first movie, depicting the birth of the hero (Messianic as it is), which can be as insightful and fuel the creation of 1100 fan sites across the world.
/. Some of those (like room 101) I would never have figured out. (101 in George Orwell's 1984 is also the room in which resides the "worst thing in the world").
But I believe the followers will cause the sequel to break the initial record because they all know, as do you, that you cannot see everything in a Wachowski movie the first time around. They are too smart. Take for example the references fromthe aarticle posted here at
Reeves out-of-character (like in an interview) is about as painful as watching Shaquille O'Neal attempt free throws. This guy articulates at the level of a 4th grader, or our current US preztledent. How he ever got this original Neo role must've been a complete fluke. I feel bad that now he must be casted for all things Matrix for the end of time.
...if not, tell him I killed some people because of his "50 Reasons to Avoid The Matrix" paper and see what he has to say.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
A great example of this message are loads of money invested in the two Matrix sequels in order to gain even more than $450 milion WB got from the first film.
Just my thoughts. I believe most SciFi is based on Christian ideals ie Games Workshop Universe, Star Wars Universe. Thats because the bible is the original story about good v evil and faith etc. Its a basic story that resonates through all humans who believe there is something better than this current world, which u can reach by Faith.
Morpheus
'Now do you believe'
Not meaning to offend anyone but I think the bible is as believable as the Matrix. If u put the matrix to paper and sent it back to 1AD (or whenever) u could pretty much have a religion.
My thoughts are all jumbled but you get where I am going.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
The real test of impartiality for Christian Science must be their position on Evolution vs Creationism; it sounds like a Creationist BS to me.
My brain Dump
Look to the Animatrix to gain further insight into old testament relations:
-Humanity creates the machines and lashes back at them when they don't "fully" obey. (God is like this throughout the old testament.)
-Humanity tries to find a new co-existence/co-operation with it's creation to no avail (the Covenant)
-Humanity attempts to destroy them by causing a "Global" catastrophe. (the flood)
Corruption of religion:
-Machines ultimately rain supreme over man corrupting his world (Does man do this to Gods world?)
Ultimate end:
Also, You can interpit it as a story of man outgrowing God thus destroying God to become God only to be destroyed.
Last story in the Animatrix has humanity trying to "convert" the machines... don't want to give out a spoiler, so stop here if you like.
But the end has all humans destroyed and one lone machine then chooses to carry on the work. Leading to a correlation: Has humanity outgrown God, destroyed him, only to take Gods foundation and make it their own without him?
Anyway, just dumping... not detailed
Enjoy it Stu and avoid the Anon Coward flamers and trolls.
I'll admit that modern Christianity is a major leap forward from all that, but why should it be the end of all progress?
As civilisation matures, we have less and less need for superstitions. Everyone's entitled to them, just realise that many of us left that behind a long time ago.
You are alone in the world not believing in God. Almost every wise or intelligent man around the world believes in God. Where do you stand?
Care to back that up with facts? Pretty difficult, I'd say. The fact is that the wise and intelligent men of the world have a whole array of beliefs, most of which would not entirely match with yours. And still the world turns.
"If Christians whorshipped, for example, Moses instead of Jesus, this article would have been all about how Neo was "Moses like"."
You know you might be on to something there. Neo as a jesus never quite clicked for me, but Moses makes a bit of sense. While the focus of the Jesus story is divine revelation and, divine sacrifice the Moses story is about escaping slavery and finding a new home for the chosen people.
I still think the Christian model isn't really appropriate for analysing the film. Biblical hero's are generally agents of the divine and all of their "powers" stem from an outside source rather than within. Exceptions like Samson are chastised for their hubris and still have to fall back on the divine in the end.
When I first watched the film it felt much more like story of Gottam Buddha - Young Prince (35) is exposed to the fact that the word is a bad place by his charioteer (Sri Krishna/Morpheus), and becomes and aesthetic, Fails in the established methods, accepts a bowl of rice (kiss from Trinity?) and then rises up from beneath the Bodi Tree with True Enlightenment.
THe author of the article brings up Gnosticism which honestly now seems like the best model for looking at the film in a relgious context. In this case the Prophet/Trinity would take the role of the Sophia spirit that has gone into the flawed creation of the Mad God to help humanity find its own spark of divinity.
Turning down the pretentious crap, I have to agree with some of the earlier posts - it was just a fun flashy movie given a bit more depth by some smart but vauge philisophical/relgious implications. BTW Am I the only one who would have found the flick even more compelling if Morpheus had turned out to be the "one" rather than Neo? There would have been something very satisfying about the seeker being the thing he sought. Would have been a great scene - Morpheus drugged and chained breaks his bonds and realizes his own nature, Neo gets capped, becoming the sacrificial lamb and Morpheus wreaks wrath and vengence on the agents. Lord of Dreams makes a lot of since for someone with power in the matrix than "the new guy". Oh well...
Even if you do learn to speak correct English, whom are you going to speak it to?
Even if one does learn to speak English correctly, to whom is one going to speak?
P.S. I ain't a student of English, but I am and English student
My spelling isn't bad, I'm evolving the language
I won't be saying too much about it here. There is a lot of action, but this one delves into different realms of philosophy even more so than the first. In Reloaded there are references to Buddhism, Jesus, Greek mythology, and just about any philosophical principle you care to name.
Sadly, I've seen a lot of "The Matrix is nothing but a cool action movie". Well, what could be closer to the movie's distinction between those in the Matrix, asleep, looking for easy creature comfort, and those awake, trying to ask hard questions about what reality really is? Those looking deeper are at least trying to break free; they should be admired.
Unfortunately, the movie does an injustice by suggesting that getting out of the Matrix is as easy as taking a pill. The truth is that people in modern societies are too overworked and concerned about avoiding future pain to put in the effort to get out of their own Matrix.
My two cents:
* Stop watching any commercial TV or radio.
* Vote your conscience.
* Use some of your free time to create a positive reflection of yourself in the physical world.
On the last point, start small. Write words, draw pictures, make something with your hands. Of course, if you're a programmer, write some code. It will increase your sense of individual power, that you can make a difference. You really can reach out and do something amazing.
Then you will truly have broken free of the Matrix.
We have the technology to automate the production of food. Meaning if we put the thought, time and resources behind it we could give everyone the food they need to live without asking for money in return.
Which we do. But if you want to eat food of a higher quality then the baseline food shipped to homeless shelters or overseas to countries where the government steals the food but some makes it through, you're going to have to pay. Rice is free, if you're willing to go down to the shelters to eat it. Lobsters are not.
Work is now a means of obtaining and doing other things, such as better then the baseline shelter you can also obtain for free in this country. For instance, why did you bother posting? Some people work for the same reason. There are lazy slobs who wouldn't work even if you put a gun to their heads, but there are also people who would do their work even if you didn't pay them. Part of the key of a robust economy is making sure the latter group is allowed to do so as well as possible, especially the engineer types who love to build things.
(To the extent possible, we try to make food and shelter free or easily accessible in other countries, too, but it's not always possible due to the government of the other country.)
Before I'd be inclined to pay much attention to your criticisms of society, and the many other times I've read virtually identical posts, I'd have to see more evidence that you actually understand society, instead of subscribing to a trite and trendy among angsty teenagers view of society.
The complex matrix of propoganda certainly exists, but it is far from the whole story and it's not as successful as many would like to think; witness the failure of the overwhelming "matrix" of propoganda pushing the viewpoint that the war in Iraq was morally wrong to convince the American public, vs. the much smaller and quieter justification for it. Damn near the entire media, both TV and newspaper, the entire entertainment industry, and the entire rest of the world were trying to convince us how wrong it was, vs. basically just the President and a few odd-man-out commentators trying to convince us it was a good idea. Extremely lopsided, but majority propoganda lost, and is still losing. Regardless of how you feel about that issue, that's a great example of when "the matrix of propoganda" almost completely broke down, and demonstrated that to truly understand society you need a much deeper comprehension then blaming everything on "propoganda". As a model of reality, it is extremely inaccurate.
That's just it. I don't think any individual human understand society completely. But I think a lot of us have a clear perception of the small parts of society we have experienced through our lives. Our collective perception and communication on the topic, I think, can help us educate eachother about the right way to do things.
For example your idea that there are a bunch of engineers who just love to build things makes sense. I knew when I was a kid that all I wanted to do when I grew up was program computers. You couldn't make me go outside and play when I was a kid. I would spend the whole weekend locked up along in my dark room hacking on my C128. But nobody offerred to give me a computer when I moved away from home. Nobody offerred to teach me or even provide me the free materials to learn. Instead I was told that I had equal opportunity like everybody else.
What I am saying is that is not enough. We need to give these people computers and books and teachers who know the material for free so they can do what they love to do. Provide us with cool software and maybe one day free food.
And there's a difference between majority propoganda and the major news networks. If they support the President its rather difficult for any indi media to reach that audience. Everyone can be saying its wrong, but if the only thing people see when they flip to CNN on their TV sets is that its for freedom, justice and the American way they'll buy into that just as easily. But even today with the facts that Halburton got those contracts does anyone question their choices? And if they did would it make a difference?
It all just makes me want to go watch Wag the Dog again and smoke a bowl.
Kudos! You deserve the +5!
This is a case where a fucking retard talking head shitfuck loser with NOTHING TO SAY is trumped simply by posting his fucking babble.
Hey buddy. I have a suggestion. SHUT THE FUCK UP
sorry, i don't study any sort of religion so i am probably wrong about parts of this, but i had always seen religion as a tool to explain two things (aside from guiding people on right & wrong) 1. why we are here? 2. how did we get here? to me, The Matrix only offers an explanation for: what is reality? i don't really see the connection, besides the characters being taken from various aspects of theology & mythology. any thoughts?
Yes, avoid the AC's and people who are moderated down. Those who are not subject to groupthink or Slash-botting or those who would tell the truth before being politically correct are to be avoided at all costs. Just think - it was popular to throw rocks through the windows of undesirables such as Jews and Gypsies during Nazi Germany and throw them in ovens [in a manner that was prescribed by law], but did that make it right? Just think of how a comment gets to +5, and does that make it right? One of the worst forms of government conceivable is populist mobocracy. Welcome to Slashdot. Stick your head in the sand, but the truth is out there. It's just more likely to be at -1 than +5. Reading Slashdot at anything but -1 is like putting a shit filter on your ass.
You are they same type of people that would try and silence Leno or Letterman for poking fun at people. You take yourself too seriously, and on top of it all, most of the brain droppings here are wrong.
You are the same fuckin retard that burned "witches" at the stake. Trying to sanitize reality. Fuckin unreal you people are.
I Tsarkon hereby decree that lacy underware and pushup bras to help mold my man boobs, really turn me on.
After a long day of flipping burgers and fiddling with my chode, there's nothing better than frilly lace and fan fiction about furries to help relieve my frustration of being so portly.
Neither is the story of Christ. It is a very different kind of story and a very different kind of message.
The offing of humanity en masse was in JDevers' post, not yours. That's why I said "in ref to parents..."
There is a sf short story to the effect that a physics prof brings various people forward in time, including Shakespeare. Wil takes a modern class about his own writings, but has to go back to his own time.... he was horribly humiliated because he had flunked...
Everyone looks at the world through some kind of personal filter, not only christians. It's called your world view. Sounds like that's what you mean in your 3rd paragraph when you say the "perceived framework of your reality." You have one too, you may just not be as conscious of it or have consciously thought about why you accept certain premises as a part of it. FWIW, the matrix certainly shows this in that neo's entire understanding of the world is radically changed... he has to decide whether to accept that or not though.... and Cypher is willing to suspend belief and opt to live the comfortable lie. World views are pretty deeply felt and often not thought-out. And people can refuse to accept information that doesn't fit in theirs, or that makes them reassess their world view.
This was the dominant attitude in Europe from the fall of Rome (5th century) to the economic revival 7 centuries later. Needless to say, not a lot of scientific or social advancement occured during this period.
I'd be disturbed by the way The Matrix parrots this concept, except for two things. First, it seems to celebrate the illusion. Neo spends most of his time in the Matrix/Mayajaal/Satan's realm, fighting illusory enemies. Hardly an enlightened approach!
Second, this is all just plain stupid. A massive VR that can't be distinguished from reality? All for the sole purpose of stealling humanity's body heat? Except for the pseudo-mysticism, this is Tom Clancy territory! Anybody who takes it seriously spends too much time on the couch.
Though I think that would be best be compared with Paradise Lost...
Some interesting religious symbolism... or maybe plagurism if you are a neurotic English professor.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling