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Geocaching Crackdown?
thejuggler writes "Some cities and counties are banning or considering banning geocaching in their parks. "It's good, clean, wholesome fun - just do it someplace else," said Brian Adams, chief of resource protection for the St. Croix National Scenic Riverway, which has banned geocaching. The geocaching.com website claims there are over 600 caches within 100 miles of the twincities."
Althouh I enjoy 'geocaching', I can see their point. What's to seperate these caches from ordinary litter.
Yep, I never spell check.
More incorrect spellings can be found he
Naturally, the headline is a bit of an exaggeration of the article - only some parks are talking about banning it outright, and they do have a point - some of the material being left is unsuitable, large numbers of people traipsing to the same point causes erosion, etc. But if the caches are moved regularly, and only suitable material is left, then it wouldn't be a problem - except who would regulate it?
I really think most cities should band geocaching within their city limits all together, just to protect themselves against terrorist acts.
While the dweebish geocachers might think it's all good clean fun, a way to show off their disposable income with a high tech gewgaw and exchange some swag for other swag, terrorists are finding web pages full of GPS coordinates in the midst of populated cities.
Do we really want to see a poor man's cruise missile strike Central Park, loaded with Anthrax or Sarin? How many Americans are going to have to die because some insane Muslim hooked up a GPS to to the autopilot of a Beechcraft and loaded it with Iraqi made chemical and biologican Weapons of Mass Destruction?
Now, you know and I know that anything that gets those flabby, pasty white geeks away from their computers for a few hours is a good thing, but they should find an outdoor hobby that doesn't compromise the security of American's cities.
"It's good, clean, wholesome fun - just do it someplace else,"
Later on..
"We like geocachers, we really do. We just wish they'd all goto Hell and die."
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
I have geocached for a while now. It seems like it has changed though, and is attracting a much wider following. When I moved to the Charleston area two years ago, there were about 20 caches nearby. Now we have 243. With some many more people involved, it can create a lot of traffic. The best places for caches are off the beaten path where they are unlikely to be disturbed by people who may have ill-intentions. This is precisely where the traffic hurts the most. I haven't read the article yet, still can't get it to load, but as someone who loves spending times outdoors, I'm not sure where I stand on this. It's a fun hobby, but with too many people not being cautious about thier impact on the surroundings, it could be not that great for the park or area the cache is in.
-Michael
now go back home. Humans aren't wanted here, especially geeks with their little electronic gadgets.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Doesn't this have to do with *saving* the parks? If someone slashdots a park (say, trampling nature areas), wouldn't it be nice to have a cache?
if geocaching is being banned in public parks then the terrorists have already won.
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
This is a great idea, most people have become so hard-wired to their televisions, their computers, and their video games, that we as a human race are beginning to forget the natural beauty in the world. We are shown on television that big buildings, 8 lane highways, and sprawling suburbs are things of marvel or beauty, just watch the discovery cluster if you dont believe me. Many times we hear about park representatives trying to get people into their parks so they dont lose funding or become development areas. Now they are becoming upset that people are visiting their parks? make up your mind!
just my several cents
The cities should just list all their public litter bins as geocaches. That way, the geocachers can have their fun, there is nothing left lying around spoiling beauty spots, and if they're lucky, they won't have to empty their bins so often.
If I seem short sighted, it is because I stand on the shoulders of midgets
Robert Sime, a Richfield dad, takes his 4-year-old daughter out about twice a month. He said parks should adjust to what the public sees as legitimate use. "When volleyball came along, they all put in courts for that," he said.
This is one of the most insightful comments in the whole article. Instead of trying to fight the geocachers they should be helping them to establish the cache sites. The park would be able to create a more terrain friendly cache site, and in turn they would get more visitors.
Isn't this the kind of visitor you'd like in your park?
"Ninety percent of us pick up bottles and cans, whatever we find. It's part of the game," she said.
Many times you are not searching for an object left by someone else, but you are looking for a static object, such as a tombstone.
As long as you are looking for a virtual cache, are you okay?
One problem with geocaching I see is that eventually trails will be created to caches far out in the woods. People always take the route starting from the nearest trail and the path of least resistance through the woods. This means that if enough people goto this same cache, a path will be worn in the woods. Once a path is there, what's the point of a GPS? You follow the path right to the cache. You can't move the cache obviously so what do you do? Perhaps people can show some sportsman ship and pick random places to start their trek to the cache.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
This isn't the first time someone's complained about geocaching in public-owned lands. Ideally, geocaching wouldn't produce any problems -- you locate the stash, extract it, exchange one item for your own, and re-stash it -- except that the fun of geocaching comes when you have to hunt a bit. That sometimes means digging up the ground, climbing (and re-climbing) trees, or otherwise moving or stressing things that shouldn't be constantly moved or stressed.
The Petrified Forest National Park in the U.S. doesn't allow visitors to pick up bits of petrified wood off the ground, asking them to buy it from the gift shop instead, because it would eventually lead to the removal of all the small samples that make the place what it is. Imagine geocachers roaming and digging all around that place.
Sometimes, preserving natural beauty means inconveniencing the same visitors who've come to see it. I don't consider this unreasonable, since there's still thousands of acres of land, public and unowned, that geocachers can still use. They may not be as scenic to get to, that's all.
Not to be pedantic, but did you read the article?
As it is i see this as a short lived sport. Right now, it's at the fun stage, where people enjoy it, trust it, and relatively few people are doing it.
What happens though, when it's wildly popular? We'll have some incident where that lunchbox cache is booby trapped, and some kid gets hurt. Then, the news will jump all over it as some dangerous unregulated, unapproved event on public property. And of course, you'll have to think of the children. Blah.
I'd like to try it, if i had the $, and the caches in the area, but alas, i don't.
Perhaps if they try to move it to areas in the country, along rivers, or along regular hiking and biking trails? You could label each cache on the net as a drive, walking, or bike riding cache. These are just some of my own suggestions. I declare them open source and free, do what you will with them. Good luck to them, if this turns out to be a niche, even better. :P
What on earth is the point of a park if people can't enjoy it, so long as they do no damage and don't annoy other parklife?
They allow this guy to speak on behalf of the park administration?
"It's good, clean, wholesome fun -- just do it someplace else."
Translation:
"Good, clean, wholesome fun has no place in our state and national parks."
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
Contact: Brian Adams, Chief, Resource Protection @ 715-483-3284 x 629 Please voice your opinion to Brian for banning geocaching after admitting "It's good, clean, wholesome fun..."
There's a type of cache that's becoming very popular, called a "virtual cache." Nothing is stored on the site, it's just a coordinate, and a clue as to what you're supposed to find there. I'd like to see them ban that. What are they going to do, ban GPS units?
There have been a few cases of serious damage caused by cachers. In one instance, a cache was placed within 10 feet of a teepee ring, which is considered a sensitive archaeological site. If you've seen how the ground gets trampled around a cache, you'd see how this could be a problem. I can certainly understand the park officers being upset that someone posted a "please trample the grass" sign on such a site.
I do think it's a BIT hypocritical though; the public parks are always aching to increase flow through the park to keep their budgets, but apparently they just want people to come in the gate, get the headcount, eat a picnic out of their trunk and leave. When those people start exploring, they get upset.
OTOH, I have seen geocachers that have no interest in exploring. They beeline straight to the coordinates, tramping anything in the way, do their logging, and tromp straight out. But many of us spend an afternoon checking out the trails while we're there, which is exactly why the parks are (supposed to be) there.
Maybe the former types of cachers should take up benchmark hunting instead.
Someone said the site was /.ed... Not for me, so here's the artcle:
MINNESOTA: GPS treasure hunt under fire
BY BOB SHAW
Pioneer Press
Ian Stevens checks his GPS unit, as rain drips off the end of his ponytail.
The GPS arrow points to the east, and Stevens begins another session of geocaching -- a sport like a high-tech scavenger hunt -- in Cottage Grove's Ravine Park.
Three park officials walk up. Will they kick him out?
Not today. The developing friction between geocachers and park officials doesn't materialize.
"Did I hear you say you were geocaching? You are the first one I have seen here," said parks manager Mike Polehna, who seems intrigued. "There's no problem as long as you aren't disturbing the natural areas of the park."
But officials in other parks, faced with an onslaught of geocachers, are scrambling to develop restrictions. Recently, St. Croix National Scenic Waterway in Wisconsin announced a ban on geocaching, and other parks are considering lesser restrictions.
Whatever they decide, they have no choice but to deal with it. Geocaching didn't exist a few years ago, but now, according to the official geocaching Web site, there are more than 600 caches within 100 miles of the Twin Cities.
The sport depends on two new technologies: the Internet and handheld GPS units, which use satellite signals to show the user the precise longitude and latitude of their location.
The geocachers search for a nearby cache on the Web site, record the longitude and latitude of their prize, and then use GPS locators to get within a few yards of the caches. Usually, the caches are in plain sight or under twigs or leaves -- never buried in dirt.
Caches contain such things as trinkets, souvenirs or coins. Searchers are free to take or leave what they like. They then sign into the logbooks.
At home, they record their work on the Web site. Online conversations develop between finders and placers of geocaches.
But it's not for everyone.
"My husband thinks it's the most moronic sport ever," said Nola Cutts, co-chairwoman of the state Geocaching Association, who goes geocaching with her children twice a week. "But he's into fly fishing, so I guess we all have our own moronic sports."
The group was started, she said, "to educate parks departments about what geocaching is and to show them we are not evil people tearing up the parks.
"Ninety percent of us pick up bottles and cans, whatever we find. It's part of the game," she said.
Cutts, 43, of Anoka, takes several of her five children when she goes geocaching. "It gets the kids outdoors, away from TV," said Cutts. "We see wildlife. We talk."
Robert Sime, a Richfield dad, takes his 4-year-old daughter out about twice a month. He said parks should adjust to what the public sees as legitimate use. "When volleyball came along, they all put in courts for that," he said.
The sport even attracts geo-tourists. Jonathan Gorton, a 43-year-old Milwaukee man who says he has a condition like muscular dystrophy, visits the Twin Cities "because we have pretty much picked Milwaukee clean. We found 428 caches."
That kind of fanaticism bothers some park officials, who say geocaching leads to geotrashing.
They don't want anything left behind in parks.
They worry that hundreds of people tramping through their woods will damage plants and habitat.
"It's good, clean, wholesome fun -- just do it someplace else," said Brian Adams, chief of resource protection for the St. Croix National Scenic Riverway, which has banned geocaching.
Earlier this year, he and park officials were startled to learn of several geocache sites in their park. On one site, said Adams, balloons were left. "That's not a good thing. Waterfowl and birds eat brightly colored things," said Adams.
In Minnesota, other park officials don't express such vocal opposition.
"It gets people outdoors, which is kind of neat," s
Congratulations! Now we are the Evil Empire
The media is complaining that people are getting way too fat nowadays... they should promote this litter sport and help the nation keep people fit.
Don't geocache anything that isn't biodegradable. Only geocache things that can be returned to the earth when you are done. Remember kids...
...if it's green it's keen!
1. Filterless ciggerettes
2. Pot
3. more pot
4. even more pot
5. potato chips for the pot heads
Going for a good old fashion bushwalk/hike. All you need is a map and some water etc. No expensive equipment. You don't need a goal to marvel in the beauty of nature. Make that your goal to hike to somewhere new and beautiful like a secluded waterfall where you can go for a swim or a big hill with a view. HOw many of the geocaches actually stop to look at the enviroment they are walking through.
While parks rangers are alwas trying to get people to the parks it ahs to be the right tyoe of people. 50,000 people to a park is good but not if they are the kind that trash the place. Like the 2 guys on jet skis on Sydney harbour who were rounding up the penguins and running over them. THis was after the penguins had returned for the frist time in 50 years or something.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
While allowing horses and stating that "mountain bikes are distructive, cause erosion and take up too much room on the trails."
Parks are for everyone and the park authorities need to learn to adapt and accomodate.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
My dad and I both enjoy geocaching. In an effort to increase its popularity in our area, we have placed caches in local parks and other scenic places. One of our ideas was a multicache of all the Civil War forts in our county (there are 6). Two of them are on National Park land. We requested permission to place caches there, and after not hearing anything back for about a month, we placed the caches in inconspicuous areas in the parks. For a few months, we read logs of people who were really enjoying the caches and most of them remarked on how they never even knew about the sites before geocaching. Then things turned sour.
We started reading logs of people being harassed by park rangers. Some reported the park rangers about to arrest the geocachers for stepping off the path. We soon received an e-mail from a NPS official telling us that we were breaking the law by leaving the caches in the park. In the e-mail he specifically mentioned that geocachers dig up earth to find caches (all the caches were above ground) and that they tear up property and litter. None of these statements are true. We had to sneak in to get the caches back without getting arrested ourselves (apparently the park rangers were on the lookout for us).
How do you fight such ignorance? We sent back logs of people saying how much they enjoyed the areas and never knew of their existance before the caches were placed along with letters explaining the 'cache in, trash out' policy of geocaching, but to no avail. Any ideas where to go from here?
The article is heavily drama. I am a geocacher that knows two of the people mentioned in the article. When they say "Three park officials walk up. Will they kick him out? Not today," they're referring to Washington County Park Officials that not only allow geocaching, but promote it as well. Drama, Drama, Drama...
;-)
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Nola Cutts, mentioned in the article, said this:
"LOL -- You know what? I talked for the better part of an hour with this reporter about my philosophy of "leave no trace" and my "trash out" activities and the progress MnGCA [Minnesota Geocaching Association] was making with having people pick up garbage on the trails and how I thought geocaching was environmentally friendly in that regard..... You have all heard this from me before
Toward the end of the interview we were JOKING about how my husband hates to geocache and how I hate to fly fish. So what quote does he use, my speech about recycling or fly fishing? AAAAKKKKK!"
They chose to make an almost faticious battle between the parks and the unknown techno-nature-hippies instead of talking about how interesting Geocaching is, and not only that, but most Geocachers that I know of in the Twin Cities, and I know that most with the Minnesota Geocaching Association also help clean up city, county and state parks during caching trips. I'm dissapointed the article was even made, and even more so that it's on Slashdot!!!
The reporter failed to mention that the MN DNR is working on a plan for Geocaching in State Parks as well.
On a final note, that is my visi.com they found mentioned in the 2nd to last paragraph.
Reference URLs:
Thread about article with the MN Geocaching Association:
http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.ph
Thread about relations with MN DNR with the MN Geocaching Association:
http://mngca.org/forum/viewtopic.ph
Cache that was visited in the article:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_de
Ian Stevens' Geocaching Profile (King Boreas) - the main cacher in the article - also an interesting note that he has *placed* more caches than any other cacher:
http://www.geocaching.com/profile/defaul
-s4xton
My name is Aaron Landry, and I approve this message.
The GPS arrow points to the east, and Stevens begins another session of geocaching -- a sport like a high-tech scavenger hunt -- in Cottage Grove's Ravine Park.
Geocaching is a high-tech treasure hunt, not a high-tech scavenger hunt. In a scavenger hunt, you know what you're looking for, but you don't know where it is; in a treasure hunt, you know where it is, but you don't know what it is.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
There is a saying with geocachers called "Cache In - Trash Out". Basically, it means that whenever you go geocaching, you're supposed to leave the park better than when you came (ie. picking up trash). There is even a day for this.
I know some parks in my area that have become usuable because of this. This guy needs to get a clue and figure out that geocaching is not ruining parks.
We need better definitions of a sport. To me, if you can do it while eating a banana it is not a sport, merely an activity.
But where is the harm. Overtrampling areas causing erosion? Come on, the "activity" isn't that popular.
'Same speed C but faster'
Didn't you guys see his name? It is obvious why he is against geocaching. As a child he left the city to escape the constant taunts and comparisons to the other Brian Adams. However someone found out his dark secret and left a copy of the Robin Hood movie soundtrack in the geocache inside of his park ranger office. Needless to say he was traumatized by the event.
from what i have personally observed, it is understandable. i have spent many hours hiking in & around hot springs national park...have seen damage
left by people seeking caches. We're not talking litter here, folks. Leaving established trails and disturbing the undergrowth--hell...in places it can look like a 4x4 competition!
People start Geocaching. People can stop it!
Use a modest sized green rubbermaid container for your cache. It's waterproof and it doesn't stand out in the scenery. Makes for a challenging find.
Use common sense. If you want to plant a cache, don't put it near another one. Check the list first.
"They worry that hundreds of people tramping through their woods will damage plants and habitat."
Maybe someone should point out to these people that the idea for a park is _for humans to use it_. Now, it's certainly true that you don't want people to use it in such a way as to cause unnecessary damage, but building a park then worrying that people will go there is moronic, to say the least. It often seems to me that "conservationism" has gone so far that the people in charge are forgetting _why_ they're supposed to be conserving these places.
It sounds like a nice idea to move caches, but...what about the GPS coordinates? They would be different. What about the coordinates of the cache on the web? So, maybe tell the "installer" of the cache to move it annually, but you really can't regulate that either. I can't hit the website right now but from the three caches I've created I do not remember a change or delete option...it's been a year though, it may just be my short circuiting melon.
the geocachers? I would consider them cool if they used map/compass and not a gadget from Fry's. finding section markers in the middle of the mojave desert = fun. with a GPS receiver it's trivial.
I live right off of the St Croix in Osceola Wisconsin(about 35 miles from St Paul MN). On the weekends I usually go out walking the banks of the st croix and going to interstate park. I never knew any of this was going on. Wish I did, sounds fun. Now I know and it may be too late. And such is life.
i have the urge to start planting high risk caches, like hidden in the park ranger's car or inside a police station bathroom maybe. how about daredevil caches, atop suspension bridges or skyrises, inside the house of a really pissed off rottweiler, or at the far end of a shooting range?
remember mook?
then people would start dying trying to do geocaches, that'll have some serious effect on geocachers. imagine the community it would create though, imagine elite geocachers who have planted and tackled the most insane caches. geocaching bragging rights baby!
time to go buy some tupperware and a gps unit!
Why haven't drug dealers picked up on the whole geocaching craze?
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
Better block it all off/make it illegal so that people will just stay home.
I never understand the mentality of these folks. First, we don't get enough money because no one visits, then too many people are coming/going to the same place.
It's like the age old ban kids from downtown because they use skateboards. Ban kids from 'cruising', ban people from the park. You keep banning people from doing things you're just going to turn them into criminals for doing something that doesn't harm anyone
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
I am the only one who had no idea what geocaching was? At first I was think maybe a web proxy server (a la what AOL does), but I couldn't figure out why someone would stick a server in a public park. HA!
'He was a dreamer, a thinker, a speculative philosopher... or, as his wife would have it, an idiot.' - Douglas Adams
Just because you don't agree with his post, that doesn't make it offtopic. I hope this gets to my metamoderation.
Of course, just as I am waiting for my GPS to arrive, this news breaks. How can people that promote the use of parks, say free advertising is bad? Isn't this kind of like Walmart saying we have too many customers cause of our deals, and our products are getting all out of order, so we are banning customers from coming in. Don't our tax dollars pay for the parks to be there too? Should we also ban walking on our sidewalks, and driving on our roads, because it wears them out?
That's one neat thing about Riverside Park in Tulsa, OK. Driving beside it you would never guess that the trees hide a rather extensive moutain bike track. Complete with jumps, and a pseudo-halfpipe. You get the best of both worlds... the main park for those that just want to picnic, and a hidden area for those with more destructive hobbies.
I'm sure there must be more like this?
1. - We must preserve these lands for future generations (of humans).
2. - Humans aren't allowed in these lands. Humans should stay in concrete boxes, close to the center of urban areas. Any other behavior is sprawl.
I'd like to cache away my Mac Peforma 6116cd. Would this be bad? I'd wrap it in plastic and even enclude a UPS so you can test it in the field.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Please...tell me you haven't been reading that netkook Mike Vandeman.
by setting up cache sites in high crime areas.
Some places we could start:
Methadone Clinics
Blood & Crips Hangouts
Recent Stabbing/Shooting/Jumper Down/ locations
Train tracks of dimly lit urbab train station.
People would go to secret locations and leave messages and spy related items, never to return. Their contacts would then come at a totally different time and pick up said items.
Geo Caching would provide far to many 'False Positives' to the Keystone Kops chasing terror suspects.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
In my opinion, all local parks are social parks. I was furious when they banned mountain biking (all parks in Monroe County, NY--near Rochester, NY) but still allowed horses. If erosion was the issue, then it's not a social park, and you should treat it as a nature park and only allow people on foot (or equivalent.)
The root cause is that we need to determine the purpose of our parks. Once the definitions are established, the allowable and not allowable behaviors become clear. The short answer for now is that if there's barbeques or a frisbee golf course, you can geocache; if there's a sign-in sheet and dedicated nature paths, you can't.
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
What exactly IS geocaching?? I've never ever heard of it.
Cheers Fogger
Um... I didn't do it!
It's your hell. You go there. I'm going to have an ice cream.
Yay.
It's nice to see someone else picking up the meme I started.
However, you now owe me one meme:)
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
If parks are upset because this is going on without any kickback for them, they're obviously missing the concept of Cache In/Trash Out (previously mentioned, I know). There's also some states (such as here in North Carolina) that allow placing caches after paying for permits. Better than an outright ban, at least. Caches are supposed to be maintained anyway, so that seems to work for a lot of people here.
All I want is a kind word, a warm bed and unlimited power.
Gotta love "officials" who want to keep the public out of taxpayer supported parks.
Idea for a geocache: A tupperware box containing two tupperware boxes. In the first box are packets containing a condom, in the second are the used and filled condoms of cache finders. A pr0n mag is also in the box for helping to fill the condoms.
Back in my day we did it with a map and a compass. You tell that to kids these days and they'll never believe you.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
My (former) nearby state park had one. There used to be a wooden water tower in Heckscher State Park, in East Islip, NY. After a new steel one was erected to replace it, the wooden one was left to decay. It eventually fell over, dumping thousands of gallons of water into the woods, washing away a lot of ground in the process. The roots from the trees in the area held on to enough soil to create a nice bike track (or so the legend has it).
It's about 200 yards away from one of the camping fields, but totally hidden by the forest. Most people don't know it's there until somebody shows them. I still go there once a year or so.
Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
GPS's don't always work. Sometimes they can't get a signal, or you forgot to bring extra batteries. Hiding a geocache way off the trail would mean that someone would need a GPS to find the trail again. Batteries die or GPS gets dropped down a cliff, hiker is lost, and dies of cold to become the winter fat layer of a bear.
Eat at Joe's.
Parks are public lands. Don't like ignorant park officials- write to your Congresscritter and let him know what is happening. Park rangers HATE that.
I guess I am willing to conclude that if:
Every story on something I KNOW something about gets it wrong
...then it is fair to assume that MOST stories get it wrong MOST of the time. It isn't that I am cynical. I just don't think the media/journalists are in the business of telling the truth. They want to entertain. They want to sell. OK, well, noted. But if you want facts, you are aren't going to get them from a newspaper or channel 9.
(PS: You are in charge of visi.com?! Wow... Personal aside to Saxton(34078)
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
when i was a young lad, me and my family would go out on camping trips and my uncle would set up 'quests' for me and my cousins.
we had a map and a compass. we would get a starting point and a clue. the clues would be riddles and the like.
it was always a blast, we were normally sent all over the park, finding more clues, all on the way to get a prize, which would normally be a couple bucks or something for ice cream.
it was always a blast, and kept us busy, and out of the parents hair for normally a few hours.
seems like a similar thing here, just a lil simpler. maybe someone could make it a bit more interesting than "here, plug these coordinates in, and follow the map" throw in a couple of way points, some clues, riddles, hints and all that...now that would be worthwhile...
As with anything that becomes popular, it presents itself to abuse. More so with fads. Posting this on /. was a bad idea. It really isn't suitable for mass consumption. Slashdot crowd isn't what it used to be. Hopefully geocaching won't "catch-on". Hopefully some joe-schmoe doesn't decide that it will be fun to plant an unpleasant surprise for a cache.
Good behavior and respect is like common sense. It's rare among the general populace. I would want the practice of this activity be limited to those that are in the know, if I were into this sort of thing. Best kept secrets are best kept by being secret, or rather obscurity.
I might suggestion that geocaching be taught through a buddy-like system instead of hanging it out there for anyone to just pick up.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
People leaving squid servers lying around or what?
The linked site is slashdotted so no help there...
If that's the problem, that's easily solvable too. And believe it or not, the geocaching rules already say to use transparent containers when possible.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
The best geocache I found had one of those hand-held battery-powered voice recorders in it. You could hear the voices of the last people who found the cache. Pretty cool!
Signs are litter then. So are man-made monuments (e.g. washington monument). Buildings. Care to rethink your definition of litter yet?
A modern day witchhunt.
Place ammo box under twigs. Leading to the ammo box have an inconspicuous wire leading to a solar powered electric fence charger. When Mr Van Driesen tries to pick up the box ZAPP! He is thrown back and lands on his arse: Haw Haw Haw! Most Mr Van Driesen types would report this to the park rangers, but some - especially in parks that outlaw geocaching would be more persistant and might even manage to get the ammo box open. Inside there would be 2 tupperware containers - one containing condoms and the other containing used/filled condoms. There would be a pr0n mag with instructions to fill the cache with sperm. The finders would be free to take as many of the used condoms as they want.
I like the idea of limiting the lifespan of a cache. I think this has the potential of keeping everyone happy. Defining a lifespan of a cache would be hard though. Where I live, ecological impacts are small anyway, so it would be somewhat pointless to cap it at 1 year.
A workmate and I were just discussing this. What he suggested is that perhaps you might limit based on # of visits. This would have a more direct relation to soil erosion. Let's face it, geocaching is not random wandering through the forest. I imagine that there are new trails being
made where perhaps there shouldn't be.
I have one of the older caches in Canada. It has received over 40 visits (this is alot for this area). Perhaps 50 visits should be a cap ? Then I can move it to avoid the specific site from being
trampled too heavily ?
The Marine Corps has numerous land navigation courses. They vary in size and location (some are woodland, some are urban, and most are a bitch *cough*TBS*cough*). The usual technique is to place an ammo box on a post, with an alphanumeric string painted on the box. The boxes are reguarly rotated, to ensure that a path isn't worn (that would sorta defeat the purpose, right?).
So, why can't parks that consider it a problem set up their own, GPS-based, land navigation courses? If they think it is a problem, then they can come up with markers that have an alphanumeric string and place them and rotate them. Obviously, GPS is easier than compass-based navigation, so you would want something small and discrete.
For funding there is two routes. The park could charge a small fee for use of the course, e.g. you don't get a map or your answers verified unless you pay the $5. The other route would be for the groups that support geocaching to either fund the park's efforts or do it themselves, in coordination with the park.
Either way, it's a win for both sides and need only be done where park officials are considering outright banning. The only downside is that you don't get some little trinket (or get to leave one), but is that really enough of a reward now to make a difference?
I would never hide a cache in a dangerous area or one that would be harmful to wildlife, but 99.93% of cachers would not do that anyway. Its like anything else, always a few people who screw it up for others.
Since www.geocaching.com is slashdotted, I'll post an explanation of GeoCaching.
Geocaching is where people will hide a cache, usually a tupperware container full of small trinkets, in a park or woods and use a GPS to save the coordinates. The cache is usually hidden somewhat so that passerbys don't see it in the open.
A person will go to the geocaching website, find the coords of a cache and use their GPS to find it. When they find it, they'll take out a trinket and put one in. There's usually a log book as well in it to sign (as well as one on the geocaching website).
I was wondering what he was up to nowadays....
I work on an air force base. One day a few months ago, I heard that traffic was backed up going out of one of the gates that is near a freeway overpass.
Someone had reported that a person had left a suspicious package near the overpass.
They closed the gate, called out the bomb squad, cavalry, etc., only to find that the suspicious package was a geocache.
So be careful where you place your geocache, consider who might be watching and what conclusions they might jump to.
- how long has google been 'geocaching'
- I wonder what the API looks like
- Can I use it to order pizza?
oh dear...cLive ;-)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
check out this thread (login required?) from 2 years ago where a cacher got a ticket for "treasure seeking on federal land" when a ranger discovered a hidden cache.
letterboxing? what does this have to do with movies?
Seems like the park officals are getting annoyed that someone actually found a use for a park besides picnicing.
O they trample our plants.
-Q
Now, now. The Canadian government has apologized for Brian Adams on many occaissions.
When I was a child, my parents were active in the Sierra Club's Hundred Peaks Section. (In fact, my father died on a Sierra Club hike in 1970.)
Almost all listed peaks have 'logbooks' at their tops that you sign when you 'bag' that peak. These logbooks are in ammo cans or tupperware containers or whatever -- obviously not natural, but I don't recall anynone ever considering them 'litter.'
I still like to hike (and sail and, recently, kayak) and explore wilderness areas. And I appreciate them in the best possible sense. I leave no trash and usually take some out with me. I do not own a GPS, since I am a competent 'old fashioned' navigator on both land and water and do not need one, but geocaching looks like fun, and if I was going to get involved in it I'd tend toward the wilderness variety.
Getting outdoors and enjoying it, whether in a city, a forest or a swamp, helps you appreciate your environment, whatever it is. I think parks ought to *encourage* geocaching, even host geocaching events, in order to build public support and as a way to encourage volunteerism.
- Robin
I think ESPN is missing a critical market. Dorks and dork sports. ESPN 3's line-up could be: Geocashing, RC Car Racing, Chess, D&D, Simpsons The Quiz Show, etc...
No my point is exactly the opposite from what he says. I enjoy mountain biking (and geocaching) and live near a very large park that has banned bikes for the reasons stated above, but still allow horses. It's a big park there's lots of room for every one but the park authorities don't seem to think that way.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
And one more:
8. Asshat.
Here is is.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
I've now been geocaching for over two years. In that time, I've learned more about the environment and *done* more about the environment than I had done in the previous 24 years of my life. Geocaching is directly responsible for that.
Thanks to what I've learned geocaching, when I go on hikes with friends, I'm the person imploring them to stay on the trails (*especially* if the trail is wet and muddy, since walking around the puddle will only make it wider). I've taught several people that bringing a canvas sack and trash bag along on a hike makes picking up litter a breeze.
One example: I was out in the Henderson Swamp area of the Atchafalaya basin area of Louisiana last weekend. While out there, I picked up approximately 13 pieces of floating litter (depends on what you count... I counted the two plastic wrappers individually). Why did I spend my valuable personal watercraft time and gas on cleaning up a couple miles of litter along I-10 over the swamp? Because I learned to do it from CITO (Cache In, Trash Out) and geocaching. Geocaching has made me a more nature-conscious person... it'd be a shame to ban it more. (Note: In places like, say, Yellowstone near Old Faithful, I would be the first person to vote for a geocaching ban, but in, say, Baton Rouge parks... that'd be counter-productive.)
Incidentally, I learned nature from geocaching, and I learned software rights from Linux. I've spent most of my free time for the last half-year developing an application for geocaching... alas, there are not enough Linux-loving application programmers who are also geocachers, and so a native Linux port isn't forthcoming, unfortunately... maybe one day...
If they don't like it, grab a GPS and collect the things in the park and toss them.
Also, it will create jobs for many of the laid of IT folks, so geocaching will be good for the economy.
-- A computer without COBOL and Fortran is like a piece of chocolate cake without ketchup and mustard
Is Vandman still at it?
Yes it is funny ban bikes but allow horses. It all comes down to MONEY.
The people with horses have lots of it.
The people that ride mountian bikes do usually.
Lets face it us mountian bikers all look scary in out sun glasses and outragous bike cloths. We must be up to no good.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Software Developer "This would be a great job if it wasn't for the user"
Park Ranger "This would be a great job if it wasn't for the visitors"
Software Developer "Look at all those bugs"
Park Ranger "Look at all those bugs"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just around Gettysburg there's over 1400.
Dang, I need a GPS device.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
Geocaching is perfect for getting people out of their homes and getting some exercise - especially from those who don't consider themselves "hikers". There has been one solved murder case because of geocaching. A dead body was found along a river bank 100 yards from a geocache. A geocacher found the body and immediately notified authorities. In turn, a murder case was solved. This has been about two years ago. Last summer, while in Canada, I found a stash of Marajuana under some tree cover. I told the local authorities and they investigated the matter. So, you see.. geocaching is a perfect way for the little people make a difference in this world. Later, happycat64.
I made a page of a few of my geocaching exploits. Read a couple and you will get the idea...
l
http://www.cruftbox.com/cruft/docs/cachelinks.htm
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
several sites near me! gotta borrow my dads GPS unit.
So.........they worry that people will visit the parks they are working to maintain?
They;re probably just worried that one of these times someone will stumble on their hole of drugs......
dan.Well, now that Geocaching is going underground, I guess now would be a good time to start my warez CD cache.
"Photoshop 6.0: 117'30.244" 34'10.005"
"Microsoft Office: 117'59.125" 33'43.257"
"Lotza MP3'z: 117'30.474" 34'40.423"
-R
At the risk of being accused of simply promoting my own web site... (Okay, okay. I'm shamelessly promoting my own web site, but it is germane to the discussion) ...here is a map showing all 414 geocaches in the Minneapolis - St. Paul area:
n t_paul.shtml
http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/minneapolis-sai
I have noticed that quite a few geocaches in the Minnesota area have been lost or otherwise removed over the past few weeks. Some of this is no doubt due to the usual loss of caches during the summer months, but I wonder if some of the loss is due to this new crackdown.
BTW, the National Park Service has for the past two years or so had a policy banning all physical (i.e. non-virtual) geocaches from their lands. Their position is that geocaches come under the heading of "abandoned property" and, as such, they confiscate caches as they find them.
-Buxley
Buxley's Geocaching Waypoint (geocaching's other website =)
Here's the e-mail for the folks at the St. Croix National Scenic Riverway who have banned cacheing though they admit its "good clean wholesome fun." Jeesh. SACN_Interpretation@nps.gov
You're right, the horses also cause damage and erosion and take up too much room. It isn't that mountain bikes should be allowed unconditionally, it's that horses should be banned wherever mountain bikes are banned.
It's quite true that some sections of trails, particularly on slopes, are quickly eroded by heavy, fast traffic like parades of mountain bikes and horses. The parks should be available to everyone, but it makes sense to place restrictions on what you can do in certain locations.
Don't take it personally when the forest service tells you your bike is causing erosion, just go bike somewhere else. Or you could try hoofing it like us hikers, you might see the place a little differently at a slower pace!
Imagine the money Geocaching in a county/state part generates. In order to park a vehicle there, you would probably have to buy a season's pass for ~$20, or at least a day-pass for ~$6. Multiply that by the number of Geocachers that pass through...
Hey, g'head and let the parks shoot themselves in the foot. But when they complain about not having enough cash to operate, maybe they'll remember us.
Tim
Just a few years ago there was a big complaint from the National Park Service that no one ever visited the parks. No people are going and they are complaining that people are going, walking and seeing the parks? Something doesn't set right with me.
I am a geocacher and I have never seen a cache cause damage to a location.
Two years from now, if they get the regulations, they will again be complaining that no one visits the parks again.
I live in the Santa Cruz, California area and there's quite a large number of caches around here. Some of the most popular are in the city, such as MicroCaches where tiny containers are slipped into niches. When you think about it, cache stashing in town is a very tricky business as you don't want it found by just anyone and you want seekers to find it, log entry and rehide without attracting too much attention. I'm considering placing a micro just because they get lots of visits, can be very challenging to place/find, and are just plain neat! Besides, even kids can get involved with this kind of activity, that just gives me a case of the warm fuzzies (which, curmudgeon that I am, doesn't happen often.)
This is precisely where the traffic hurts the most. I haven't read the article yet, still can't get it to load, but as someone who loves spending times outdoors, I'm not sure where I stand on this. It's a fun hobby, but with too many people not being cautious about thier impact on the surroundings, it could be not that great for the park or area the cache is in.
I haven't read it, yet, either, but I'll draw on this bit about unwanted traffic.
Most certainly a poorly planned cache, which encourages bushwhacking through sensitive environments or leaves a lot of beaten down undergrowth, should be terminated. But turning away traffic from parks?!?! What the fsck is that? Parks are for the public, and that includes responsible GeoCachers! I've had a belly-full of people stealing mountain bike trails ("Oh, it damages the environment, but the horses are OK") for similar reasons. I've been on trails which have existed for decades and are in good condition. OTOH horses really shread trails and create errosion problems. Occassionally there's a trail that biking has done damage to, but permanent closure isn't the answer, better trail maintenance is.
All that said, I've only been GeoCaching for a month, but I'm out int he parks (paying FEES!) and having a marvelous time (Check some photo collages at this site and I've recently stashed my first cache (look on Geocaching.com for "A Room With A View") and took pains to be certain it won't pollute the environment (It's a steel ammo box), no danger to critters (steel and no food inside) and seekers won't damage the area by seeking it. It's a bit of a tough cache so it probably won't see more than a few visits a year.
In these times, why not See America First, and let this great outdoor activity be a part of that. Fight these sit-on-their-arses members of the No Fun Club!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
this is more modern variant of a game that has been played in the UK and no doubt other countries for decades. 'Post Boxes' are hidden around the UK containing stamps plus other souvenirs and map references to other 'Post Boxes.' Rather than use GPS participants use a good old fashioned map and compass.
Maps are nice and so's a compass, but anyone who's serious about the outdoors will learn to navigate from and give good verbal descriptions. This is how people did it before there were maps, let alone GPSs. Relying on landmarks and terrain features forces you to be more observant on your hike. Describing a route properly demands an accurate memory and some specialized vocabulary. I always get a laugh out of people who consider themselves outdoorsmen but never venture off the trail.
Unfortunately this is a lot harder to learn without someone who's already skilled to practice with.
Did the geocaching.com website crash anybody else's Mozilla browser? The cache crashed it :)!
We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time...
Geotrapping
1. dig big hole
2. put broken glasses and other rusty and sharp metal shards at the bottom
3. cover with fragile vegetation
4. send coordonate on the web
there is even a "roaming" cache type where one person who finds it moves it to a new location and posts the new coordinates.
You can move the balloons and whatnot to a new location, and leave a note in the cache at the old location specifying the GPS coordinates of the new location. After a while this makes it harder for a geocacher to eventually find the balloons, because he has to traverse all the nodes. But park rangers love it because if a cache turns out to be in an environmentally sensitive area that is sensitive to foot traffic, insertion and deletion is a very fast process.
Well, fuck you - what do we pay taxes for? What are the parks there for? People are going out and walking around instead of spending more time watching TV? The horror!
Advice: on VPS providers
I like this quote:
"They worry that hundreds of people tramping through their woods will damage plants and habitat."
I wasn't aware that if I work for a park commission, that means I own the park too...
Firstly, I'm an irregularly active cacher (78 finds or so at last count). I find the hobby to be a lot of fun, and good exercise. It gets me motivated to go to parks I might overlook and to hike deeper into them than I normally would. I've also attended numerous local caching events, and met a lot of nice people.
In all the 78 caches that I've found, I've never seen any sign that the placement of this cache was even visible, much less causing any damage to the surrounding environment with a single exception. I once found the contents of a cache scattered all over the side of a hill. Why? Because somebody had not read the rules, and had left cookies in the cache. Oh well. What did I do? I carefully gathered every scrap of stuff and repackaged it all. Problem solved.
Caching is an environmentally friendly activity. It gets people out to parks they normally wouldn't, and gets them to pick up trash in those parks. Just one motivated individual can clean up a lot of trash, and caching puts hundreds or thousands of them out every weekend.
I do understand the motivation in trying to limit damage to sensitive areas, say, where endangered birds or plants can be found, but cachers are more than willing to try to adopt these reasonable restrictions. There is currently a ban on geocaching in national parks. Guess what? You won't find any caches in national parks. I hope that state parks do not follow suit in making a general ban, but instead work with geocachers to try to establish reasonable guidelines for the placement of caches. The idea of moving caches at least once every 12 months to prevent trail formation is a sane and reasonable solution, and I doubt that any cacher would have any issues with that.
Give it a try. It's a lot of fun.
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
(from the article)
..."
"My husband thinks it's the most moronic sport ever," said Nola Cutts, co-chairwoman of the state Geocaching Association, who goes geocaching with her children twice a week. "But he's into fly fishing, so I guess we all have our own moronic sports."
Why not combine the two and double the moronic value? Next up: GeoFlyFishing. "There's a lunker at N34.56.789 W117.45.678, first one to catch it wins. Wait, its moving - W117.45.679 - W117.45.680 - W117.45.681 -
While I'm not a geo-cacher, I do enjoy walking on wilderness trail. So much so that I'll willingly cut out debris and make trails more passible to both pedestrian and bike traffic.
In order to save wildlife areas, you must make them meaningful and accessible. Cutting a single trail deep into a forest means that everyone doesn't cut their OWN paths. The little furry creatures will do just fine so long as their aren't trails criss-crossing the entire expanse.
Trails that make the entirety of the area accessible makes the park or area RELEVANT. Relevance creates a mindshare of users who come to those places to relax and enjoy themselves. Those users will react when the area is threatened. Relevance makes it more unlikely that it will be mowed down COMPLETELY by bull-dozers.
If their are no users, if people can't go into those areas, they are less likely to care one way or another.
I don't know about other people, but trails are more enjoyable when you CANNOT SEE the other portions of the trail. A little loop around the fringes of an area really aren't a viable trail system. They're BORING!!!!! Nobody will go their, and nobody will CARE!!!!
I too suspect that this story is a little blown out of proportion. When reading the Geo-Caching pages, I notice that most caches are located "slightly off the trail". Now that may raise an alarm bell for rangers but people will ALWAYS stray from the trail a bit whether they are Geo-Cachers or not.
It's right that rangers wish to protect trails. But they have to remember that trails protect the overall viability of a wilderness area and ultimately protect it from complete destruction. Sporadic side trails will NOT really affect the ecological viability of an area.
Most park visitors are inherently lazy, so It's really doubtful that they are going to start clearing patches of vegetation wholesale. An occasional A-Hole will tear things up for the sake of it. But I don't think you'll find this type doing something as intellectual as Geo-Caching.
They should just chill out a little and remember that though some vegetation WILL get trampled, it's really a small price to pay for the integrity of the remaining area.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
You have a point, but I think it should be pointed out one can't stop everything because someone may jump to a conclusion. On the opposite extreme, I remember hearing a story about a university where a guy left an old vcr, and some idiot decided it was a bomb. The bomb squad was called and everything. I think the police even charged the guy--even though the vcr was not a bomb, nor did he do anything to the vcr or say anything which would indicate it was a bomb! I wish I could find the story. It is an interesting read, and it happened before 11 Sept 2001.
Yeah, it's a bad idea to leave anything near a military base, but I just had to say this because I know there are lots of stupid "zero tolerance" people out there who would change this issue into forbidding everything. You can't even take a crap in the toilet anymore without someone saying you are "ruining the environment."
Just thought I'd pass on some personal experience. I started geocaching more than a year ago and let me tell you, this is a great deal of fun. I've done more hiking in the last year than I've ever done in my life. Being a software engineer, I desperately need some solid exercise and gyms are a complete waste of money, IMHO. Having a goal (finding the cache) is much more enjoyable than taking a walk. Having done close to fifty caches, I can say that none of these affects the environment. In fact, Geocaching promotes taking a trash bag with you to pick up the litter left by the rest of the fair-weather hikers. Who raised these littering boneheads is beyond me. Geocaching is not allowed in the National Park system which I find ridiculous. A recent experience at the Grand Canyon affirmed my opinion that evironmentalists are hypocrits and elitists. I attended a nighttime slide show entitled "The sounds of the canyon". The ranger made it very clear that the park service doesn't like the helicopters flying around even though they have a strict flight path. They also make it very clear that it's illegal to ignore anyone in trouble. The next morning, I rose at oh-dark-hundred to go to Yaki Point to take sunrise pictures. Having driven out to the site, I discovered that the National Park service in it's infinite wisdom closed the access road to vehicular traffic. I parked at a picnic area and started to hike in with all my camera gear. Twice a shuttle bus blew past me even though I tried to flag them down. When I finally made it out to the point, I spent about an hour taking pictures. The only sound I could hear was the sound of those damn shuttle busses. IMHO, The National Park Service has become extremist in it's view of visitors. If you're not a serious outdoorsman, we don't want you past the visitor center. This is evidenced by Denali's one access road into the park on which you're only allowed to travel if you take the scheduled bus trip or if you've got a backcountry permit.
86% of all statistics are made up on the spot, usually to support an argument. Remember, the key to making up believable statistics is never use round numbers, and if you're really creative, cite an equally made up margin of error.
:-)
And amazingly, that works 91% of the time
And Now, back to the discussion...
Orienteering is about the journey. Geocacheing is about the destination. I lean more to the side of triviality than challenge. Orienteering is about figuring out where the destination is: The challenge of navigation. Geocoding more or less hands you the destination on a silver platter. I mean, a ten metre radius can be searched with a metal detector in what, fifteen minutes? (Most caches are either in metal boxes, or contain metal objects, from the sounds of it.) Where is the challenge?
As for the park officials... I am sure most geocachers are responsible, conscientious people who do frequently leave less trash than they bring in. I think that educating the park officials and geocachers alike is the key. Geocachers should be encouraged to pack out trash. Park officials should be made aware that Geocachers are encouraged to do this. I don't think geocaching should be banned unless it becomes a problem. One or two people a week isn't bad. Fifteen to twenty people a day is a problem. Moving the cache around, or setting a time limit on it (it will be there on these days) would help alleviate the wear and tear factor.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
What a crock of SHIT!!!!!
The impact of Mountain bikes are fairly minimal provided that the trails are cut mostly parallell to hills as opposed to straight up and down. The most common impact of bikes is to cutting deep ruts into trail, that only occurs when the ground is fairly damp. The damage is easily repairable with some mulch or deadwood.
The soft rubber treads on moutain bikes do an excellent job of maintaing traction, a distribution pressure. I dare say that bikers are FAR LESS destructive than hikers. Bikers RARELY go off trail because they are interested in speed. Stopping and wandering around off trail is very uncharacteristic of mountain bikers.
HORSES on the other hand are VERY destructive. Their metal shoe hoofs cut DEEPLY into the ground. Any significant moisture combined with a horse will reduce an area to porridge VERY quickly.
I guess since the rich folks do the equestrian, they can't be penalized. This is similar to London parks banning roller-blades because the roller bladers "startled" the horses.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
Park rangers whould be very aggressive about re-routing trails when their is an excessive slope. Switchbacks do take up more space, but their erosive impact is MUCH, MUCH lower.
If you provide a better alternative (while blocking up the old trail(think concrete and steel)), most users will prefer the switchbacks. After a bit the old trail will grow over and no-one will know the difference.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
True. I concur that there is a strong correlation between wealth and foolish behavior.
;L
However, it does not preclude it in theory. In theory, however, to hear about geocaching from a friend who does it will land a higher probability of a higher average preservation. In theory, hearing about it on a website, and worse, on slashdot, will land a higher probability of a lower average preservation. I will make the assumption that there are a significant number of slashdotters with money that engage in foolish behavior
There is a much lower number of people who will be interested in vandlising the sport which a friend has introduced him/her to.
Are these assumptions off their mark?
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
Woah, you told the authorities when you found a stash? Are you insane...
You should've gone for a smoke, man.
I'm sorry, I can't resist...
...
:)
8.
9. Profit!!
BTW, I wonder if anyone knows of any geocaches near Niagara Falls, NY. I'd like to try things the old-fashioned way
-uso.
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
God, you are really paranoid and stupid. How about this more likely scenario:
A "friend" you've never met opens up a McDonalds, all is fine and fun for a few months. Then some nutball gets an idea from the McDonalds shootings, except he doesn't want to risk his own life, so he uses a bomb with bullets inside to give the same effect. He also wants to kill police and emergency workers, so he hijacks a satellite laser and fires it down on the McDonalds when they show up.
OH MY GOD!!! WE HAVE TO BAN ALL MCDONALDS RESTAURANTS NOW! Wait a sec... this could happen in any retaurant!!!! WE HAVE TO BAN ALL RESTAURANTS!!!
Wait a sec...someone could blow up my apartment complex. OH MY GOD!!! WE HAVE TO BAN ALL APARTMENT COMPLEXES!!! IN FACT, WE SHOULD BAN ALL BUILDINGS!!! Let's all go live in caves. Wait a sec...OH MY GOD!!! THEY CAN BOMB CAVES TOO!!! We'll just have to live out in a flat desert. Wait a sec...OH MY GOD!!! Then they'll form war parties and use humanities disorganization to kill us all!!! It's just like Mad Max!!! AAAAaaaaaahhhhhh.....
MN has generally been pretty awesome with their parks.
I'm a resident of the Twin Cities, and for those of you who know what Disc Golfing is, Minnesota Parks Department has aprox. 21 courses in their different parks, all setup and maintained. They are generally setup very nice.
I'm suprised they aren't more open to this kind of thing also....like it's stated, it's not really hurting anyone...
GeekWares - Buy and Download Today!
This geocaching idea is great. Never again will I have to hike out my own trash!
Of course, this ruins the old trick of sneaking a bowling ball into a friend's backpack that he'll be forced to hike out with...
It's "Watcher", and if you go to clayjar com, it's right there. (Light on the docs, but the screenshots in the feature presentation from several versions back should enlighten a little.)
Wow, I had never heard of this. What a yuppie pasttime. What happened to putting on a pack, and hiking AWAY from technology? I guess, too each their own. But being an old school eagle scout... I'm in that lady's husband's camp. Go flyfishing or something. Don't take the video game out in the parks with you.
actually i remember reading a cache page (on geocaching.com) where the cache was moved by the person that found it and the new coordinates posted in their log entry. the notes requested that you post you were hunting the cache 24 hrs in advance to warn others. i guess it would slow down people seeking the cache to 1 a day or so. i believe it was only moved a short distance every time. was an interesting idea. i didn't hunt down the cache as it wasn't in an area i was visiting any time soon.
no baloons needed and no extra hiking involved.
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
They require a site maintainer to exist, who will be responsible for upkeep of the site. Sites may exist for no more then 3 years before they must move.
All very reasonable rules, and I applaud PA for endorsing this.
I teach Boy Scouts here in the Twin Cities. I use Geocaching to help them earn their orinteering merit badge.
Rather than have me hide something, I just have them map out the Geocache coordinates on a paper map and find it themselves using a map & compass. Then I let them use the GPS so they can have exposure to guiding themselves with modern technology. To which they inevitably ask: "Did you have to actually find your way using a Map & Compass?" and comments like: "Using a paper map SUCKS!"
Can you think of anything more terrifying than a bunch of Boy Scouts hiking through a State Park?!
Heck, we always leave a trail cleaner than we found it. It's called "Leave No Trace", its one of the first things we teach our Scouts.
We pay for the parks with our tax dollars, why not let us use them as we see fit if we're not destroying anything.
Morons.
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
I think that the railgun leaving a trail was a good way to help out with that problem.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Slashdot crowd isn't what it used to be.
Ever since user #461009 signed up, it's all been downhill
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
Moving the cache around, or setting a time limit on it (it will be there on these days) would help alleviate the wear and tear factor.
well, except then the owner would then be visiting that site a whole lot, to remove and re-add the cache. If he's getting 1 or 2 fewer visitors because of this, it's offset by the additional times the owner must go there. If a site gets 40 or 50 visitors a year, it's doubtful they'll cause any noticable damage, but if it's getting a whole lot more than that, it probably isn't hidden too well. Of course, I have no idea what the average number of visitors per site is, it's all conjecture. I really would like to know though, because that would really affect how much damage would be likely.
http://xkcd.com/386/
as long as the caches occassionally contain items such as APM (anti-personnel mines) and/or SARS-infected materials...
DIE YOU STUPID GPS GEEKS!
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Well I live near Dartmoor (the home of letterboxing). Apart from some issues with ground-nesting birds and organised (charity) letterbox trails (with clues to take you from one box to the next) there is still no problem with going off paths and hunting under rocks. In fact the national park authority seem quite in favour. It's all different this side of the Atlantic though. Ammo boxes are not allowed as letterboxes on Dartmoor, as a lot of military training goes on and the army are concerned that poeple might not know the difference between an unexploded shell and an ammo box hidden under a rock. GPS is a luxury I might soon invest in - even with it you need to be able to read a map and use a compass.
to click the "Clear Cache" button.
sulli
RTFJ.
The challenge is that box lies somewhere in the woods. One has to hike/walk a while to get to it. Anything to get your behind off the Aeron chair is good for you, Sir.
Here in Los Angeles, there are nature trails everywhere, less than an hour of driving. Some trails are less than a few miles from the freeway/road. Park the car and 15 minutes later immerse oneself into total tranquility and beauty of nature. Ahhhh.
Try it. You might like it.
Now, on a more serious note, when I explain the geocaching thing to friends or co-workers, if they still look at me funny after I explain the whole GPS and prize-exchange thing, then I just use my standard: "Okay... just think of it as an excuse to go hiking.". Ultimately, I think that that's the end result: marginally more people getting out of their homes and walking around in nice, big public areas and getting some fresh air.
Now, although the rangers and park officials claim that they'd like more people to appreciate the outdoors, I think they'd prefer that they appreciate them from afar. Like just about every other line of work, I'm sure they often mumble amongst themselves: "This job would be great if it weren't for the customers".
Bottom line: If you want more people at the park, then you've got more people at the park. Deal with the increased foot traffic... that's what you're paid to do... to manage the park. However, if you *don't* want more people, then either close the damn park entirely or require permits or something. But don't go preaching about how people should get back to nature if you're not prepared for them to do it during your shift.
This never seemed to be a problem in the days of letterboxing. I guess geocaching has become a victim of its own success
As a letterboxer and non-geocacher, the connection between the two somewhat disturbs me.
Although superficially similar (stick a plastic box in the woods and post some sort of clue to find it), Letterboxing clues generally follow existing trails, and we choose the exact planting spots to minimize environmental impact (for example, in New England, we have countless decaying stone-walls, which make a great spot to plant boxes as they have zero environmental impact).
Geocaching, on the otherhand, while sometimes giving clues to minimize bushwhacking, at their heart actually encourage bushwhacking. "Park here at point A, find the box at --N--'--.- by --W--'--.-, point B" illustrates a typical clue. To most people, that means "walk in a straight line from point A to point B", regardless of a possibly better (ie, already blazed and no bushwhacking) but less direct route.
Incidentally, I maintain the web-page for a NE Letterboxing group, the Rhode Island Bored Nocturnal Adventurer's Guild, for those interested in finding a somewhat more environmentally friendly alternative to geocaching. And of course, the ultimate Letterboxing site lives at Letterboxing North America, with well-organized maps to help you find clues to boxes in your area.
On the bright side, actually stopping people from Letterboxing and/or Geocaching would take a miracle... I know of a number of places that not only officially ban boxes, but aggressively hunt them down and destroy them (as the worst, both the NPS and the Audibon society have ordered their caretakers to kill boxes, though at most parks the phrase "plausible deniability" has worked greatly in our favor). This hasn't stopped people from boxing in those parks/preserves, it just means the clues have gone "underground", shared by word of mouth between trusted fellow 'boxers. Having a few boxes like that spices up the hobby, but I would consider it a real loss if the majority of clues end up requiring personal, private distribution.
" Cutts, 43, of Anoka, takes several of her five children when she goes geocaching. 'It gets the kids outdoors, away from TV,' said Cutts. 'We see wildlife. We talk.'"
And she sounds like she's proud of it. Probably she fails to see the irony.
Privacy is terrorism.
Let's see:
:-)
GPS Unit $250
Flight to LA $500
Car Rental $150
Downloading from Webshots: Priceless
Actually these are a lot closer.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
Seems that the focus of our society now (US) is all about extracting money from each other, and since this activity is not being charged for, and thus not producing taxes it is deemed undesirable. That is my take, we don't want you wasting your time on this when you could be spending money on movies and a buch of crap that we convince you that you need and need to upgrade every other month. Yeah thats right you should be helping restart the economy by buying, buy buy buy buy.
I'd say that both terms are sufficiently accurate.
As of last year the Minnesota Department Of Natural Resources cracked down on geocaching in state parks. They claimed that people were harming the environment by not staying on the marked trails. This shouldn't really come as a surprise to those of us who live in MinneSNOWta. In the late nineties they banned mountain biking from state parks...claimed it damaged the environment...but horses were OK on the trails. Last year it was geocaching. This year it's ATV's. What will be next?
The main thing to remember is that those of us who live in this tundra called Minnesota are quite lucky. We are just hours away from the Boundary Waters Canoe Area. The BWCA contains 1.2 million acres of woods to play in. The Canadian Quetico borders the BWCA, adding another million acres. Of course you can add the Superior National Forest on to that (parts of which are considered part of the BWCA), and you have several thousand more acres to play in. All of these areas support Geocaching as a valid sport and activity.
I agree that it is sad to see geocaching being banned from areas near the Twin Cities. However, we are still better off than a lot of states.
There was a parks meeting here in Loveland to disuss this subject. Many Geocachers showed up and had a say in it. In the end they banned all Geocaches in the parks including Virtual Caches. A virtual caches is when you give coordinates to a point of interest ie: Nice statue, big tree, spectacular view. But nothing is actually left that was not there before. They decided this was bad. Never mind it infringes on free speech. Banned! Next. It was really amazing and wrong.
I think the geocachers in the state where the article was written need to take a clue from the Maryland Geocaching Society ( http://www.mdgps.net ). This is from their self-description and sounds VERY appropriate:
The Maryland Geocaching Society is an organization for Geocachers run by Geocachers. The group was originally founded in order to preserve Geocaching in our State Parks. At that time Maryland State Parks, in particular the Patapsco State Park was asking for the removal of all caches from the property which they managed. Recognizing this as a very serious issue regarding the sport in the area, a group of avid geocachers gathered to form the Maryland Geocaching Society. The very first order of business was to reach out to park officials in an effort to come to an understanding and save the State Park Geocaches. Through a lot of hard work, patience and cooperation a set of State Park guidelines was finally agreed upon and adopted by Patapsco State Park. This same set of guidelines would later go on to be adopted state wide! If our founding members had not stepped up when they did, there is no telling how many parks we as geocachers would be shut out of.
I think pre-registering geocaches on State Park land is important to the health of the trails and non-trail environments. Getting people outside and bringing attention to our much maligned parks is important and geocaching done on park land is a great way to do both (as any...and many here...of the geocachers know).
By laying out guidelines to protect state lands (many of which mirror guidelines that geocaching.com/GroundSpeak lay out in the first place for caching etiquette), the parks will stay healthy and no worse for the wear and the people will get out to enjoy some of the non-urban delights around them.
This of course does not preclude urban caches which are a lot of fun too (and feel much more like espionage...even given the current temperment of most Americans towards city-lurking).
Mordor...a magical, mythical land where women are more rare than dragons--but where every man would rather find a dragon
So either he is a liar or the (local) press is very, very sloppy.
Not to nitpick, but I am just wondering why you are limiting this to the local press?
Again -- the newspaper of record in the US had two people fired last month for making up stories.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
If someone claims to have placed a gold coin in one of the banned parks and it's verified and they do it a couple of more times.
Perhaps the solution is to change the sport a little bit...I propose that everytime someone finds a geocache they move it and enter the new coordinates into the geocache website. In this way locations are no longer static. There is no way that park rangers, cops, or other such bureaucrats could keep up with the moving caches.
Another idea would be to put encryption keys in each box and as you find more boxes gather more keys which can then be entered on the website to find the location of other boxes. In this way a the crats would have to work full time to find them. Or geocachers would start building a web of trust trading encryption keys to find the boxes.
Yet, again the government is doomed...
On another note, I also have another new sport. Finding geocaches without location or coordinates! Its really easy to outthink the geocachers and figure out were they would put the boxes. I've found a number of boxes this way.
Azurite is fine covellite is mine.
Any time someone finds a new way to have fun
Any time someone wants to share it
Any time people really start to enjoy something...
Some jerk has to come along and bugger it all up.
It's like that Major from Monty Python always shows up and says "Stop that! Stop this silliness!"
Fuzzy Knights: New RPG Strips Tuesday and Friday!:
http://www.fuzzyknights.com
To quote an article from a pro-legalization website:
http://www.marijuana.com/article.php?sid=4954Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Most parks in our area have either zero or one geocaches in them and probably about 10,000 pieces of actual trash. Put another way, within 100 miles of my home, there are 400 GeoCaches. How many items of trash are there within 100 miles?
So, if I remove ten pieces of trash, then add one geocache, the park is winning overall.
Even if you consider a geocache to be 'trash', it's an utterly negligable increment on the load of trash in most of the parks I've visited.
Then there is the 'cache in - trash out' initiative where geocachers go a-hunting with a large black bin bag and remove LARGE quantities of trash along with visiting the geocache.
Geocaching is at worst benign and at best a glorious way to find great new places to go. It's an ideal use of public land.
www.sjbaker.org
> The parks certainly have a point, but I suspect eduction of your average geocacher would be much more useful.
This is the approach beng taken by the Tonto National Forest managers. The Forest Archaeologist spends a few Sundays a month educating geocachers. The TF areas around here are rich with native american sites. The TNF tries to be friendly to everyone.
> I'm not sure where I stand on this. It's a fun hobby, but with too many people not being cautious about thier impact on the surroundings, it could be not that great for the park or area the cache is in.
Precisely.
-- Bob
The geocaching site has clearly stated rules for where caches can be placed. Visit http://www.geocaching.com/articles/requirements.as p for details. Note that National parks and National forests are strongly discouraged. Something to note - many caches are hidden well enough that accidentally stumbling upon them is unlikely. Man, I'm glad I live where I do. It's a significant city, but there's a smal enough population that it's not too likely we'll have our caching banned. And if we do - well, there's hardly any visible authority in our parks, so try and stop me!
An astronomy club in my former home town is planning to build an observatory out in the wilds. They're still looking at possible sites on publically accessible land, so nothing is fixed in stone - yet. They're doing it "right", contacting the landowners to ask for permission, and are generally getting favourable responses. But one possible problem is coming up for several sites - although it's not widely advertised, one of the leading possible sites is in the vicinity of several breeding sites for rare birds of prey, and the local police take an "act now, ask later" attitude to cars parked late at night in isolated areas, or even to cars-not-known-to-belong-to-locals being seen at all. This could be a major crimp on the utility of the site, and the information to avoid problems is simply not published anywhere (imagine Mr Evil Egg-Thief looking at a map that says "No visitors between March and September, please". You think he's going to be attracted there? Correct. That's why the only time I saw an osprey I kept my trap shut about the location, and I still do. And I'm not a birder.)
Anyway, I think the average /.-ter can see the potential for conflict between geocaching and park officials who really don't object to geocaching, but can't say why.
There might be some pretty bits of the world out there, but there's some awful ugly humans.
-- Aidan, recently ejected from sub-tropical Aberdeen (Scotland)
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Far before that. Far before a previous account I used to use before I decided change in attitude and opinions prompted a change in identity. The internet is anonymous you fool. The comments are a debate about topics. Not a personal soap opera.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
I mention this because I was actually given a warning citation for hiking off of a trail in an area in Utah where I was fairly certain that was allowed. I researched the regulations online and found that hiking off trail was banned only in areas where this was clearly posted. There was no posting at all about hiking off trail, so I contacted the Forest Service. Eventually they put me in contact with the Patrol Commander and she agreed with me that the officer who gave me the citation made a mistake. (As it turned out, the guy had some cutsie college intern ranger girl with him. The impression I got was that he was trying to "show her the ropes" and show off a little...)
Ok, so that may have been a bit excessive for a simple warning, but it was the principle. I got a chance to explain geocaching to a person who has some influence on the rules in this area. She understood that geocachers are generally respectful of nature and know the rules of leaving no trace.
So please know the rules in your area and communicate with the officials. They're people, too, and they love the outdoors. If they understand that we have the same respect as they do for the land, they'll be more willing to let us show that respect. And if you disagree with a regulation, let the regulating body know with an explanation of why. You may end up changing things for the better!