Slashdot Mirror
Classroom Bullies On The Internet
peter303 writes "Oldtimers are familiar with sociopaths in usenet newsgroups and chat rooms. The NY Times has an article about grade school kids who bully on the Internet. These include message bombing and slanderous web pages. The web allows one to extend bad manners from real life."
Haven't seen it yet, but will probably at some point, the following bumpersticker phrase:
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Are geeks not safe anywhere anymore?
Or I will find your ip, track you down and kick your ass! There are no bullies on the internet, get it?
gets my vote for resident /. bully.
The journalists drag up this dreck every year or whenever there is a school "incident". dave
A lot of this story was about moronic kids taking pornographic pictures of themselves or friends and it quickly circulating. No fucking way, porn, spreading fast on the Internet? Who would have thought!
But a growing number of teenagers are learning the hard way that words sent into cyberspace can have more severe consequences than a telephone conversation or a whispered confidence. As ephemeral as they seem, instant messages (better known as I.M.'s) form a written record often wielded as a potent weapon for adolescent betrayal and torment.
NOTHING is worse than the fucking "telephone game". Story starts innocuous enough about Timmy getting reprimanded by the Gym teacher and ends up into some outlandish bullshit about Timmy getting his cock sucked by the male Gym teacher for missing a basket during an important shot in a worthless game during class.
Yeah I suppose the written record could be changed to make people more and more guilty looking but it's most likely getting circulated in tact (I know how stuff is copy/pasted between AIM windows). If the girl said some racial epitaph and it got spread over AIM and her school suggested she leave so be it. She probably lucked out better than if it had been said verbally and stretched...
Kids should be taught the same things we preach... Do not allow anyone to contact you on AIM unless they are on your buddy list or at the very least have it prompt you if you don't have them on your list. At least they can't won't get to fill up your SMS inbox with messages about your stupid behavior.
Have some common sense and don't post pictures of yourself masturbating, don't send messages about how you think of someone else, and don't allow yourself to be video taped by other kids doing sexual things with others.
In fact, I would say that Katie is a sociopath, as well.
I assume the Slashdot crowd doesn't need to be reminded that this is the same "Parry Aftab" and WiredSaftey.org program as pushed by the trampy little "Katie" of "Katie.com" domain theft fame from a couple weeks ago. The same girl that was stupid enough to get herself involved with a 40 year old man alone in his hotel room and then tried to extort an innocent woman out of her legitimately held domain name all under the guise of "I'm a stupid twit and made a bad choice when I was a teenager and now I'm going to spend the rest of my life trying to milk it for every dime I possibly can".
Parry Aftab, Katie and the whole lot are a bunch of fucking twits. They see problems where none exist and blame everyone else in the world for their own personal failures of choice and behavior. God I can't fucking STAND these idiots and I can't believe Slashdot is now "promoting" news for the same twat that we were flaming the hell out of a short time ago.
But it did not end there. As soon as Amanda got home, the instant messages started popping up on her computer screen. She was a tattletale and a liar, they said. Shaken, she typed back, "You stole my stuff!" She was a "stuck-up bitch," came the instant response in the box on the screen, followed by a series of increasingly ugly epithets.
Oh, boo fucking hoo. Don't give people you don't like your instant messaging name, then. Or rather than engaging in petty arguing, sign off. Or block them. What does it take to warn or block someone on AIM? Two or three button clicks? For fuck's sake, it's a few mean words on a computer - it's not like these "bullies" are shoving broomhandles up their "victims" asses.
It's one thing for kids to be whiney little thin-skinned shits, but it's another for the lawyer - Parry Aftab, Wired and that Katie bitch to make big bank going around promoting these social rejects. These retards that can't back down from confrontation by doing the obvious - like blocking people in AIM or simply grow up and deal with the fact that not everyone is going to like you and sometimes your feelings will be hurt.
This story just makes me want to puke, as do those who are clearly exploiting the "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" angle of it. Also - just because you're a porky fuck who almost got herself raped in a hotel by a man three times her age (where the fuck were your parents?!) doesn't make you an "expert". That's like saying that junkies are experts on drugs. Just because you inject a bunch of drugs into your veins doesn't make you an expert about them anymore than driving a car makes me a mechanic - and in the same way, being a stupid twat that makes herself a perfect "victim" doesn't make you any more an expert on these things.
For instance, last spring, when an eighth-grade girl at Horace Mann School in the Riverdale section of the Bronx, sent a digital video of herself masturbating to a male classmate on whom she had a crush, it quickly appeared on a file-sharing network that teenagers use to trade music. Hundreds of New York private school students saw the video, in which the girl's face was clearly visible, and it was available to a worldwide audience of millions.
What the fuck? If a thirteen year old kid is stupid enough to videotape herself masturbating and send it to a classmate, she DESERVES for it to be spread around the school and to be humiliated for it. Sometimes there is a price to pay for being a fucking moron. And the persons with the social and mental problems aren't the people who harass or humiliate her for it - it's the girl who has such a fucking warped brain that she thinks passing around videos of herself with her fingers or a dildo in her pre-pubescent snatch is the way to win over a boyfriend. That kid needs to be sent to a fucking boarding school and undergo major psychotherapy.
This whole fucking article is one tale after another of stupid kids doing stupid things and then running to mommy and getting sympathetic attention when it comes time to pay for their stupid actions. God forbid people learn from mistakes by paying for them.
Scene - a high school girl complaining to her guidance counselor...
How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
When I was in high school everyone used ICQ. There was a program that would let you put in the person's IP address and port number for ICQ and you could spoof messages and get the reply but the user thought they were talking to someone else. I would send messages to two people that they each liked the other. It made for some fun times and akward moments.
Sort of sounds like this.
Who better to tell people about internet bullying?
Finally, the young, smart, small and geeky can finally bully the big dump jocks!
Remember kids: Violence isn't the answer, but a good command of Tae Kwon Do sure lets you keep your stuff.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
On the web, you leave traces, unless your REALLY know what you're doing.
It's something people have come to expect on the internet. Ignore or use that nifty "Block" feature. Why this particular girl didn't, I have no idea. Which is why I once again propose totalitarianism. .
Kids may want to watch that they don't piss off the wrong person on the internet.
In Japan a girl slit the throat of another girl over insulting comments made over the internet.
Monstar L
...so I'm posting this anonymously. When I was in a kid, I was a bully. Of course we didn't have the Internet... but what I found was that the kids I used to beat up everyday - THEY ASKED FOR IT. Don't want to get beat up? Don't join the freaking chess club! STOP being a nerd and I won't pound the tar out of you.
Now, I'm an IT manager at a Fortune 500. I manage lots of software engineers, and guess what? They're still the SAME dorks they were back then (and they always told me they'd be my boss, funny how life works). Still huge nerds. They get all excited about Lord of the Rings and Bilbo and Gandar or whatever... sheesh, stop being a nerd and you won't get beat up!
-Steve
virtual Bullying has been going on for some time.
gimme your lunch money, or i'm going to fork out a hurt process on your ass.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
These include message bombing and slanderous web pages
/. to be anihalated
or posting someone's website to
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
It's just another communication medium, like any other. Once it hit the mainstream, it was inevitable that it accumulated the same proportion of gossipy girls and malicious bullies. There's nothing special about the Web or IM.
The internet, instant messaging, and webpages are just new methods of delivering content. Why would we expect new media to have different content than previous media? It'd be like creating a new type or method of picture creation and then being surprised when someone uses it to show pr0n.
Bullies bully in real life. Bullies are going to bully on the internet.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Is the knee-jerk response to control iNet content. ("If we stop 'x' from getting anywhere, we send a message to the bullies")
Bullies are a part of society and are everywhere - even to the point of Bully Countries (someday: Bully Planets).
Take the power away. Write a reverse contactor to send bullyx a magnitude reply (you send 1, I send 10). Better yet, trap the messages and post them on a website to show the pure idiocy of the bully.
As this was from October 03 it wouldn't surprise me if this figure had risen
I think bullying sucks, but does this expansion of the definition do us any good? I also wonder about this cyberstalking crap. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me.
When I want to hurt someone emotionally I just write a slanderous mambo about them.
Just read the comments at /.! About a third would probably qualify and three quarters of the political comments and moderation fit that definition.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
* lots of histrionics
* abundant associated ignorance
* promises by authority types to "do something"
* misguided policies that don't address the root causes (as if they could ever really be addressed, when it's humans that we're considering)
Are you blind? under a sounds familiar subject line you should quote some of the trolls on slashdot... ;-)
:-(]
cmo'n - this site probably has some best examples of internet bullying...
get a free ipod! [This stuff works! - I took the infone offer (free), and my friend got his iPod... should have joined earlied
Yessss... finally after years, the geeks are able to bully around the kids of the people we were bullied around by. we may be behind still... but look, we're on the board!!!!
The original generic sig.
There's nothing like getting IM'd by a bunch of people who warn you as soon as you reply to them and then you're FUBAR for a couple days till the warning level drops back down
e to the pi i plus one equals zero
Butis all this on-line activity just a gateway activity to the harder stuff like becoming a Slashdot troll?
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
what homework do you need done?
>Have some common sense and don't post pictures of yourself masturbating, don't send messages about how you think of someone else, and don't allow yourself to be video taped by other kids doing sexual things with others.
... for FREE.
I, as a mature and responsible member of society, am shocked that they were doing this
Do you know how much money they could have gotten if they that set up a pay-site and charged $19.99 per month (first 7 days free)?!?!?!
I fear for our future.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
You are alone in the world.
You are either loved by all or just invisible.
Everyone loves you, or they are too afraid to admit otherwise.
See! I'm telling my mommy!
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
Bully : "Paypal me your lunch money or I'll give your avatar a wedgie!!" ..."
Me: "yes sir, the echeck is on the way
Granted, things will have probably changed by the time I have a child old enough to be dealing with anything like this (there seems to be a long history of 'geeks' in my family, my father was an electrician, my grandfather was a chemist, etc), but if I were a parent now, here's what I would probably do:
Find the offending username/ip.
Move them off of whatever IM client they're using now.
Put them on something a bit more intelligent, my weapon of choice would be centericq, but anything that will allow you to do some scripting will work.
Set up an auto-reply to that user. Auto-block that user. Heck, grab the IP address, nmap, and script-kiddie a shutdown of that IP. Doesn't matter, but you ARE empowered as a parent to stop this sort of thing.
Granted, not all parents are as geeky as we are. There should be a basic 'block username' and 'block from IP address' function in an IM client, no?
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Is just a coward who thinks there can be no retribution for their actions. Then they go and try to demonstrate their power by doing bad things. Oftentimes social outcasts are targetted (like nerds) because they have few friends to draw support on to provoke a response against the bully. That these same victims are then turning around and doing the same thing online saddens me; it reminds me of people who are still steamed over a few childish words or actions from their pre-college days. In either case some bullies have managed to have a large affect on the person's life, and other people's lives through them. Chances are that by the time they're in their twenties, someone who was a bully in high school has either repented his actions or matured to the point where they would no longer even think of pushing someone around. Some of their victims, OTOH, will still have the persecuted mentality. You'll feel a lot better if you simply forgive people who did you wrong as children. The forgiveness isn't for them, it is for you.
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
So it would be Libelous webpages.
side note, anyone catch Ali G interviewing Andy Rooney? hahahaha "Does you tink dat da media be well important?"
I boycott signatures
Find the kids that are the bullied, and report them to the police. We don't want another Columbine!
Protect the bullies. Vote Republican!
wow, a slashdot editor actually published a reg-free nytimes.com link
Horace Mann, one of the schools used in the examples, is where I did my student teaching, many moons ago. It is one of the most prestigious private schools in the nation. This was pre-IM, pre-Web, and the students were just about as mean to each other in person as they were online.
ScienceSeeker.org
this extends to Wikipedia too. Sociopaths cause all kinds of havoc on numerous articles to try and get at other editors but they're just too cunning for anybody else to realize what's really going on.
Seriously, most of the students described in that article were just fscking morons. Sending pornographic material to a hormonal teenager and not expecting it to be distributed? Hell, even if it were analog, it'd probably get around (i.e., photocopier)! If you take nude pictures or whatever of yourself, give it to someone, and expect it to not be distributed... I mean, really, that's just pitiful. As for the cyber-harrasment, that's what the ignore button is for! Use it!
I think that's great. The sooner kids realize how f***ed up the American ethos is, and that the American mythos is in fact insane, the sooner they'll get to working on going beyond it. Instead of the little conformists becoming adult conformists, perhaps the brutality of their peers will cause them to begin to question societal norms, and begin to think for themselves.
I was taunted brutally as a kid, and I consider it a blessing. I am a much better man because of it.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Meet me behind the gym after class or your ass is grass.
No Karma Bonus either. Gloves are off biatch!
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
The lesson of don't say, do, or send anything online that you wouldn't want someone you hate to get. The Internet produces artifacts, things that are more concrete than the regular 'well I heard blah-blah-blah say...' gossip. I guess this just goes up there with one of those hard life lessons that define being an adolescent (and define why it sucks).
Better to just change your username/handle and electronically disappear.
What is music when you despise all sound?
A lot of this sounds like child pornography, can kids get in trouble for sending child pornography of themselves?
As you walk you hear kids snicker. Are they talking about you? You check your shoes for trailing toilet paper.
It's the paranoia that really drives a kid mad. Now what, I say what, if you could *hear* that whispered, laughing conversation?
So maybe it isn't about you, and you're relieved. Or maybe it is about you and you've just got to know what they have to say....
Curiosity killed the fatty fat fat.
Isn't this what slashdot does to random web admins every day? Damn punk kids.
That was a lot harder to do when your main evidence would have been childrens' (frequently unreliable fact witness) testimony, or grubby pieces of paper passed through dozens of grubby hands and likely lost or destroyed when the joke ended.
Not that I like the idea of childrens' parents suing each other over crap like this, but in the severest of cases, what other recourse do people have. If schools won't stop it, the victim can't and the antagonists won't, a judge may have to.
Remember Gislaine, the star wars kid? People shouldn't have to change schools because other people are maladjusted and have rotten parents.
If you never make mistakes, it's probably because you're not doing anything.
So, rather than live their lives they want (which is what a free person can do) they must live their lives according to how someone else, you wants? That's what a slave does: Live a life as dictated by another.
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 42
Sissyfight!
Not karma whoring!
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
I forwarded the NY Times article to the office of Attorney General Ashcroft. I hope Mr. Ashcroft will once again step up and protect the American People. These so-called "blogs" are horrible. Let's take away the cyber-bullies' weapons. We need a law which provides for criminal charges against anyone who uses these "blogs"!
For the children!
Once again, the Onion captured idiotic school behavior on the internet well before real life did.
The Rise and Fall of Online Community
[email]
Dear fat kid,
If you don't want your website slashdotted, then paypal me $1.25 each day.
-bigmeanbully@yahoo.com
---
Those who can, do
Those who can't, teach
Those who don't know how, supervise
You know, business people these days are scared to do anything at all controversial, because the belief is that "being sued" equals certain bankruptcy.
I wonder why school bullies think their actions will bring anything except violent death?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Perhaps this has to do with the general (and incorrect I might add) assumption that people on the internet are anonymous. These anonymous cowards think they can say anything without any serious consequences, and so far they have, but perhaps this will change...
the cute,shy girls! oh wait ... u mean they r into ... no way ... BITCH!
www.givemeyourlunchmoney.com
and www.atomicwedgie.com
those are truly bully sites...
(DISCLAIMER: i have no idea what maybe at those url's. click at your own risk)
Is it 5:30 yet?
At the same time, you also have to look at the bully's perspective. When you're anonymous, blogs and IM warfare seem to work out as a carthasis for pent up agression. If you have to tell somebody something incredibly nasty, and you're anonymous, then you get his or her viewpoint with seemingly less risk to the actual relationship.
So lets say your friend is fucking your girlfriend behind your back and you aren't too sure whether he is. You can use anonymity to discover about it yourself in some cases, confront him, and do something about it. Underhanded? Yes. Sometimes underhanded tactics are vital in this world.
If we censor the bullies, we censor ourselves.
one piece in the article details how an 8th grade girl's masturbation video gets circulated on the internet after she sent it to a boy she had a crush on.
8th graders are what, 14 years old?
guess what -- that's kiddie porn, folks, and the people doing both the circulation and the viewing are committing crimes with pretty harsh punishments. and according to the article, using school computers to do it.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Confer John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory:
Normal person + Anonymity + Audience = Total fuckwad
Snickersnee3: Build your own 3-watt Luxeon Star headlamp from scratch
This is one of those topics the New York Times loves to beat to death. Whenever there's a slow news day, you can count on them to publish some article about one of the following three topics:
1. Those crazy kids and their "Instant Messengers."
2. Neurotic mothers in Westchester County paying thousands of dollars for private college counseling.
3. The wild and crazy things NYC bicycle messengers do to make deliveries.
I think the point of the article, that parents should know how to use the computer and be aware of bullying by way of electronic communication was perfectly fair. Those experiences could be very miserable for children.
I am not talking about the long term consequences such teasing may have or may not have on children when they grow up. I'm talking about the suffering taking place in the present tense.
Parents who know how to use their computers could presumably impose the "ignore" feature against other children who are harassing their own.
I am not sure this is any worse than the traditional gossip mongering and name calling that took place back in the days when only nerds had computers.
However, just because the current bullying isn't worse, it doesn't mean that it isn't bad. I think many slashdotters may know what it was like to be bullied as a child.
But it would seem to me that with computer based communication it should be easier to track down and hold the bullies responsible for their bullying.
I still think back in the old days when bullies would physically beat up their victims, the victims had it worse, and there was often no real proof of what happened. And bully's are often great lyers as well.
The physical evidence this type of bullying leaves, provides of opportunity for intervention by parents and teachers.
Anyway... the article was pretty fair. IMHO
No one has a right to their *own* opinion. They have a right to the TRUTH.
You see, folks! Clifford Stoll is right! Computers in the classroom are not only an unnecessary and useless distraction, but now they are probably also a serious legal liability.
Please, for the sake of the children, start by unplugging the computers and networks and teach them how to use books again.
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
"When you say things over the Internet, it feels like you are spewing into your diary,"
Um, not really. I've never felt like anything posted online has been secret in any way at all; even your average Barnes & Noble journal/diary isn't safe from prying eyes if someone has any idea that it exists. It's more like you think that if you believe it's hidden well enough, no one will find it. I've made the mistake of believing that my family wasn't tech-savvy enough to google me and that my boss didn't read my site and as a consequence, I've lost a job, a cousin browsing webcam sites found pictures of me back in my camwhoring days, and my father hasn't spoken to me in over two years.
You haven't heard about it because the internet is down.
Oh, wait...
The Saga of Katie.com
The girl in that story is the same girl that founded the organization with Wired that is mentioned in today's article and the lawyer in the photo (Parry Aftab) is the same lawyer of katie (who tried to hijack a domain name for her book, even though she published the book with the domain name that was already taken, KNOWING it was already taken before hand).
The katie involved is some ditzy fat chick who somehow was able to strike up a relationship with a 40 year old man on the internet, go visit him at a hotel and narrowly avoid being raped by him, without her parents being aware of ANY of this some number of years ago. She's since parlayed this into a number of paid speaking engagements, books, magazine articles, appearances and foundations/organizations where she goes around the globe talking about how dirty and evil the internet is, rather than how stupid and naive people are. She seems to have no concenpt of personal responsibility.
Playing OnLine RPGs spreads satanism and playing FPS games encourages violence.
also according to experts too much slashdotting causes nose hemorroids, terminal baldness cooties in lab rats
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Back in my day, bullies didn't mess around with IM...
If the school bully didn't like you, he just showed up and pummelled your a**. Or worse, brought his buddies with baseball bats and tire irons after school. And if you fought back, well, you'd have to worry about getting stabbed or shot.
Now, you get called bad names on IM. And this is a problem? To those of us who grew up in a time when kids brought guns and knives to school, this seems like a godsend. Getting called bad names is a lot better than getting shot because you were looking at someone else's girlfriend...
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Imagine those conversations between him and your nerdy child... "hey nerd, im guna beat u up" "You mean tomorrow?" "no i mena now punk im beatin up u" "We're on the internet, I don't know what you mean" "im puchin ur face rit now u faget"
People weren't any smarter back then.
Just less numerous and more technically apt.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
First of all, I am not afraid of any man on Earth...I just dont give a fuck. Having said that, there is nothing anyone can say to me to make me hit them. Why? I can control my anger and my actions. Try it some time. Your "Old Days" spiel about getting punched for saying something offensive tells us all how much you have managed to evolve. (hint: not much) Violence is a deterent how? Think again, buddy. The issue at hand is that many humans still have yet to figure out how to coexist with one another, and this always makes my stomach hurt.
"Patience is not a virtue, it's a waste of time."
...you call it anything but speech. Cyberterrorism, cyberstalking, cyberbullying are all codewords that will be used in arguments to abridge our free speech rights.
I play a little bit of Star Wars: Galaxies, and it's facinating to watch the online bully mentality, and how it develeops. On our server, there's an entire guild who prides themselves on ruining everyone elses fun. They are the self-declared alpha-bullies of the game. Recently, someone (either a disgruntled former "insider" or a victim who had had enough of the harassment... no one knows for sure) got ahold of account logins and passwords of several of their members and started deleting their characters. It's now escalated into full-blown harassment, posting personal information (including SS#s) in live chat, and threats of violence in real life. All over a series of tables and fields in a database somewhere.
Some say that online life is a mask people can wear to be someone else. I'm more inclined to believe it's a magnifying glass which can amplify the worst qualities in someone.
I don't mean to poop on the story, but is anyone surprised? Those of us that are especially geeky remember how much of a bastard other people were to us in High School, why is this any different?
True, the abuse is now done through electronic means where personal lashback is less likely but jerks will be jerks. This sort of thing is just the threatening phone call for the modern age.
Good story and very interesting, but my reactoin was "Well duh." Anyone else think that?
What if the entire Universe were a chrooted environment with everything symlinked from the host?
When i was a kid, it was awsom when a girl didnt wear a bra with a vneck sweater. now you cam get mpegs with a girl masterbating. child porn asid, if everyone is in highschool than thats not as illegal as a bunch of 30 year old perverts passing it around. sheesh, kids these days. in my day we had to work to get naked shots and peeps at the cheerleaders, now they just send mpegs of them masterbating.
LoL @ Parry Assflab
Bullies back then didn't mess around, your phone might be disconnected or forwarded to someone else. Or someone from a group like MOD or LOD might call you late at night and list your personal information, credit card information, your neighbors, etc.
2 years and no mod points. Join reddit. Because openness is good.
These are where the major problem is. I've read new stories where young girls have snuck them into school and took pictures of other girls undressing before P.E. (Gym). Posted them on their website and ta dar, instant embrassment, shame and nothing the girl can do about it (due to them knowing so little about the internet).
People will bully any way they can, the internet is just a vechile. As soon as we find a new geek medium (where we can pretend to be women on an IRC like place), it'll happen there to.
Man loves to feel big and important, we do this by putting others down... put two and two together.
I like muppets.
For most of the USA population...
What goes around, comes around.
Also, see.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The whole internet is running off a cached copy that I have on my PDA. I hope my batteries don't die!
Atlanta's finest escorts
Parry Aftab, the angel of the Internet!! <drumroll/>
This presumes, of course that you're running Windows)
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Hey what kind of blogging software do you use. ive been thinking of setting somethin like that up/.
is the same lawyer involved in the attempted katie.com domain "hijack" (Perry Aftab)
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Well yes, real life behaviour extends to the internet. There are some differences in impact though:
- no physical violence
- logfiles; the victim has more power to prove, especially in an early stage, that (s)he's being harassed
- more freedom/power to avoid the bullying, 'switching off the internet' is a bit easier than 'switching off real life'.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
That the New York Times would be talking about media bullies?
10 years after I'd left school I got a few e-mails from people who'd caused me grief during my school years. Dissing me, trying to bring me down.
It was a real pleasure sending a response from 6000 miles aways, and describing my successes in life. and then of course owning their lame website, and signing them up for every spam list which I could find.
I'm LOOKING for my 5th grade bully on the internet. Anyone know a Marc Jones from central florida? He'd be around 28-30 by now... Mr. Corrente for a fifth grade teacher...
I had a sucky sig.
The only way someone can bully you online is if you let them. You CHOOSE to be in a room with an OP who you know abuses his authority; You CHOOSE to stay in a particular community; etc. The biggest problem is with the kiddies coming and DDoS'ing you while you try to play StarCraft :-D
-sp0nge
as if instant messaging was just invented yesterday. perhaps by al gore.
they actually say in quotes, "cyberbullies" heh
I'm using pmachine right now. It seems to handle 4 years of entries pretty well.
Size doesn't matter on the internet. Physical bulk is only good for slamming a fist down on the keyboard in frustration.
Yes. If "Internet bullying" (sic) is all a child has to worrry about these days, well, frankly, good.
Physical bullying is hard to ignore; namecalling can be much easier. With the internet and blocking software, it's even easier.
And besides, over the internet, there's often more time and personal safety to compose that perfect, literate, well-crafted retort. Rather than trying to croak out something smug-sounding while crawling miserably out of a garbage bin.
I *so* don't miss high school.
--
AC
> I think it's mostly that people don't have to deal
> with real-world consequences. You can say things
> in text to people that would get your face beaten
> in if you said them in person.
We can learn from this. If you could beat up rude people in real life, there would be a lot fewer of them. Sleazy newspaper reporters, lying used car salesmen, and dishonest politicians will disappear practically overnight if one were to abolish the first amendment for everybody. These days the first amendment is abolished only for honest people who are not allowed to talk about dangerous subjects at work or protest peacefully on the grass in New York
The proper response to a bully, be they real or virtual in nature, is to tape a full color printout of the
I was reading slashdot, and he left a message for me.
Give me all your money - I know who you are. ps. I accept paypal
So I clicked away as fast as I could and started reading fark - but he was one step ahead.
If you don't give me all your money I'll disable your SETI@home account!
I was terrified. This guy was good. So I thought I'd try something else, I went to google news - how was he doing this? There in the headlines:
iraqWarDeathToll++;
Stem Cells blocked by extremists citing Satan - Christopher Reeve unavailable for comment.
I Said Send Me Your Money.
jobsAvailable--;
I'd had enough, I turned off my computer and ran to a newspaper.
95% of the money in the world controlled by 5% of the population, 50% controlled by 1%.
Economic middle-class taxes and expenses rising - wages stagnant.
Super-rich get tax break on overseas investements.
Incumbent campaigns to convince citizens that they will be rich - fights for lower taxes.
And I realized there wasn't anyone stalking me. The messages weren't directed at me alone, but at me as a member of the economic middle-class. I thought I was a bully's target, and I guess in a way I am. I'm personally affected by every corrupt policy, every writ of habeas corpus, every war, every genocide.
VOTE, if you care.
self promoting b***h. nothing wrong in being one, but to use little children for this..
that this was going to be another RIAA/MPAA article.
"Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
> If someone is "stupid" enough to leave their diary lying around a publisher can steal it, do they deserve to have it published in the daily newspaper?
Not applicable to the situation at hand. She passed the video to the boy herself, which established a desire to distribute. Having your diary stolen doesn't establish this desire.
> The girl's legal rights were violated: specifically, her copyright to her video. Regardless of what he thought of the contents, it was illegal for her "boyfriend" to publish her work without her consent.
Incorrect. If she didn't apply for a copyright, or at the very least include some notice not to distribute in the video or otherwise, she didn't establish any reasonable desire to copyright, so enforcing it would be problematic at best. More importantly, copyright violation is a civil tort, so she would have to demonstrate monetary loss due to his distribution, like for example if she was charging for distribution and he gave it away. No such monetary loss occurred, so there's no case for copyright infringement.
More to the point, however, is her recourse. If she truly wanted to make him pay for doing what he did, she could have reported him to the local police. A video of a 13-year-old girl masturbating is child pornography anywhere in the U.S., and by putting the video up on a P2P network, he's guilty of distribution, which is a felony offense. While he was sitting in reform school for five years, he'd have time to reflect on how "not nice" his action was. Also, any classmate who taunted her with comments about seeing the video would be subject to arrest for posession, so the story would die quickly.
Virg
If a thirteen year old kid is stupid enough to videotape herself masturbating and send it to a classmate, she DESERVES for it to be spread around the school and to be humiliated for it
Do you really believe that, you need "major psychotheraphy" yourself, because you have the empathy of a tumbleweed. Of course humiliation could be a consequence of her action, but she didn't DESERVE it. She was a 13 year old kid, for chirssake! You really need to rethink your values.
The point of the article is that electronic communications have create a new playfield that parents and educators do not understand and can't properly teach to kids.
How about the above gets moderated as a troll?
I'm more inclined to believe it's a magnifying glass which can amplify the worst qualities in someone.
That's funny. That's my definition of marriage.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
This article is yet another story that proves there are bad people on the Internet. They bend the rules of privacy designed for decent netizens, and hid behind those rules to launch their semi-anonymous attacks.
We've seen it before on the Usenet groups where a civilized discussion over some issue dissolves into a flame war. It has happened right here in this discussion area, where people's words are twisted beyond their original intent, just for the purpose of making the original poster look like a racist or a nazi.
There are varying degrees of 'badness' out there on the Internet, from the casual responder who slanders a poster; to the scum-of-the-earth virus writers and spammers who have the deluded opinion that they are doing good. There are a lot of shades of grey between black and white.
My response to attacks on my person from the Internet? Suck up the anger to retaliate, and don't even respond. The attackers (who have no other life but to harrass others) will all eventually troll for other victims to argue their rants. You really don't want to get black-holed into a war of words against some sociopath who has nothing better to do than to raise your hackles further. Just back away. It's the worst you could do to them.
JMHO
I agree that too many kids are bullied.
p ?p=6#comments
Myself, I am bullied at school as I'm considered as a geek and the same kids lon onto my blog.
Here's an example: http://hlds101.servegame.com/pauliusblog/index.ph
I've already blocked their IPs, but they just reset their modems and flame me more.
The hip way to get your IP. No ads, ever.
As adults I think we tend to get so jaded and so quick to judge. Kids at that age aren't as thick skinned as adults, teasing, name calling, gossiping is very painful at adolescene. Go ahead and saw "awwwww..." all you want, I'd rather show a little kindness that turn the kid in a angry, repressed, beaten down sociopath.
"she DESERVES for it to be spread around the school and to be humiliated for it.... stupid kids doing stupid things and then running to mommy and getting sympathetic attention when it comes time to pay for their stupid actions"
I'm REALLY glad you weren't my parent, and I hope you aren't anyone's parent. I made some mistakes as a kid - but you know what my parents did - made damn sure I learned from it while ALSO being supportive and understanding, like a good parent should; not berating me and ranting b/c they were pissed off, unsympathetic, cynical adults.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
peter303, you must be new here.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
I have a better answer for the abuse, if it gets bad enough to be affecting your child that strongly. Find out the screen names/IM handles in question. Ask your child to find out who they are in real life. Print out the offending messages on real paper. Mail them to the parents of the children in question. Sure, you'll find some parents who won't care, but the vast majority of people will respond to this by confronting their kids with the evidence. These kids will back off fast when they realize that the stuff they say online can find its way back to mom and dad.
Virg
In one model - there are 4 groups in the *bully/victim* scenario:
1. *Bullies* - who repeatedly make some sort of attack on someone who is (for some reason or another) unable to defend against it (an *asymmetric* relationship).
2. *Passive victims* - who usually don't provoke the bully, they might just be different - or weak - or handicapped - or smart - or not something...
3. *Active Victims* - who tend to be very good at getting under someone's skin - either by the way they say things (perhaps they have a great way to humiliate someone verbally) - but they usually end up seen as the ultimate victim. If you trace things back, active victims look a lot like bullies, but in a different way. They often blame others with a type of rapid revisionist history of events.
4. *Bystanders* - they tend to *normalize* what is accepted in the social setting - so what might be considered bullying by one group, might be considered *normal* by another - which is one reason why you can talk to a teenager all day about not bullying, and they have one view of what that means and sending a *mean IM* probably isn't going to be it, unless that child identifies themselves themselves as the victim.
On a related note - however kids define bullying, more than half say they have been both victims and bullies in different situations, and like all models - the *4 groups* listed above is just a handy way to help some get a handle on the way many situations play out.
Bad parents can blame music, television, magazines, drugs, the Internet or, anything else for the behavior of there child. The truth is that, the partent is between all those things and their child. If any of them somehow 'damaged' your child, they did so because you let them.
UNIX/Linux Consulting
*sigh* Time to get the latest clients...
</dirty-perv>
When I was thirteen, I was busy with sports and my education - and the rare but not un-heard of play-ground brawl or after-school fight.
I did not, however, videotape myself masturbating and then give it to someone I had a crush on. I did not try to engage in intimate relationships with 40 year old adults over the internet and meet them in hotels alone. I did not videotape myself having sex with one or more other people and distribute it.
Parents of children doing those things dont' nee dto be sympathetic or understanding. They need to be forceful and strict. And you're a pussy idiot if you think that the above things are "understandable" situations and that they're things that will tend to happen when "kids will be kids". The kids in that article are severely dysfuctional and far beyond the pale of just being kids.
This may be off topic but who cares.
We all know that most of the people who talk shit the most on the internet (especially in online games) are usually puny little girly man geeks who suffer from some form of social disfunction in the real world. Sometimes, however, they are normal people.
Case in point: Sophomore year in college, back when collegeclub was pretty popular, two girls actually got into a fist fight over some things that were said on a college club message board.
One Girl A said she slept with Girl B's boyfriend and said some pretty nasty things about Girl B. Somehow Girl B found out who Girl A was. They went at it via the net for a few days, then one night Girl B and friends caught Girl A walking from the parking lot to the dorms. It was all downhill from there. Fist (not cat, but fist) fighting and the eventual raking of Girl A's face across the parking lot asphalt, etc. Mind you, Girl B's boyfriend (as well as most of the male dorm population) was standing there and did nothing.
Girl A eventually "transferred" (dropped out) of school and now works as a waitress at a local restaurant while Girl B went on to graduate.
Moral of the story..anyone?
Who saw the end of "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back" and didn't stand up and cheer? :)
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
If we create a world where people don't have to suffer the results of their mistakes then they will have no reason to stop making mistakes.
The girls that made the porno has to be one of the alltime most stupid people in the world. What is wrong with a love letter? Baking cookies?
I like to think of this as another darwin type removal of the weakest links. Sending self made porn to a teenage boy is like going "Awh cute kittie, come here" to a lion.
I am not intrestted in feeling sympathy untill she gets down on her hands and knees and begs for forgiveness for being an insult to the human race. Legal protection you say? Okay sure, send the boy to jail for copyright infringement but only when she becomes a ward of the state for the rest of her live (not sure about the english term for it but it means she looses the right to ever do anything on her own, is also done to senile people)
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It makes a lot of people a feeling of power.
I remember helping a friend prove that the harrasing emails that his sister was recieving were coming from someone in the area. There was another girl that the school who was suspected of the emails but the fake contact info for the hotmail account was from the other side of the country. Luckly at that time hotmail correctly included the IP of the machine the person was logged in from in the email headers (not sure if they still do) and it was fairly simple to trace back to a general location. When confronted that the emails were coming from somewhere in the town and the ISP would look up the account info for us she confesed.
The idea is the same then as it is now, the kid feels like they can say what they want and get away with it. Fortunatly most don't really know how to be anonymous online so finding the source via your local geek isn't too difficult.
I used to make it my mission to be a prick online. It was so much damn fun. And if anyone wonders WHY?
;-D
A. Because I treated it as "not really real life". It's just a world of text, even if there are real people behind the user names.
B. It's phucking phun to be the dick for a change, because in real life, I'm an introvert with anxiety problems.
I think it balances everything out.
The girl's legal rights were violated: specifically, her copyright to her video.
Legal rights? In case you weren't aware, the government is not in the habit of granting or recognizing copyrights on child pornography.
it was illegal for her "boyfriend" to publish her work without her consent
It was illegal for him to distribute it, with or without her consent. It was also illegal for her to send it to him, produce it, and both were in violation of possession.
Such as being sued for breaking the law
Copyright is automatic but you need to register it if you want to litigate--which would be hard to do considering it is child pornography.
Things aren't even that clear if she was of legal age. We've seen home-made porn commercially published by people who have questionably acquired the material--how much more difficult do you think it would be if they could prove the material was given to them and it was published non-commercially. This, of course, neglects the fact that an adult would be expected to come to some form of verbal understanding with the recipient that the material was sensitive and not to be redistributed.
Rosalind Wiseman, whose book "Queen Bees and Wannabes," was the basis for the recent movie "Mean Girls," said that online bullying had a particular appeal for girls, who specialize in emotional rather than physical harassment and strive to avoid direct confrontation.
/. troll community is just a bunch of pussies then? Huh, GNAA == twat. I always thought so...
So, doesn't this mean our friendly
Hey, how about showing a little compassion to the boy who received the video? What would YOU have done at 14 if some girl sent you a video of herself masturbating? You probably would have shown it to your friends too. HE made a dumb mistake, just like SHE did. You can't just show compassion for one side.
See, I am all for showing compassion. One of the best books I have ever read is "The Art of Happiness" by the Dalai Lama. Now there is someone who practices what he preaches.
How about showing some compassion to this girl by NOT teaching her to sue when she is wronged. How about teaching HER about compassion. How about teaching the boy about compassion. I am not involved in this stupid fiasco, so my having a compassionate opinion isn't going to do shit.
You have to be held accountable for your own actions. This girl freely distributed a video of herself - hey, that's life. I am not going to blame her parents, because kids will do dumb things. But her parents should step up and refuse to sue other people for something her kid did on her own. Learn from it, move on.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
A weird but sensible juxtaposition in Stephenson's book, The Diamond Age, was the resurgent dominance of Victorian-era tropes in the upper classes. The society emphasized self-discipline, a strict code of manners and interaction, and the importance of constant vigilance toward one's appearance in public and private alike.
The reason for this throwback was in part that survelliance technology had miniturized and infiltrated to the point that any given surface could house cameras and transmitters that could not be traced if they were even noticed. Therefore, keeping a strict code of bahavior was neccesary at all times to deny the possibility of a smear campaign, blackmail, or other possible stigma.
The online bullies scenario brings Stephenson's vision to my mind. Maybe it's time to recognize that anything recorded will probably get around at some point. And it's easier to record than you think.
Kids, pay attention: Maybe it's a stupid idea to masturbate into your webcam and then email the movie to anybody. Email gets around. It's the new STD: Sexual Transmission Disease.
Either that or open up and make accessable DRM techniques to the public.
You're right, some of these kids are "severely dysfuctional ", but guess what? They probably got that way for some very complex reasons (I'd be very curious to know about their home lives, experiences, parents) and applauding or relishing in their humilation isn't going to make those kids better people.
Which is why I clearly said in my post, yes, you have to let them learn their lessons, but help them become more intelligent mature adults but also showing some compassion to what can be a very sh*tty, confusing, difficult time in life.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
If nobody dies it doesn't even count.
I'm REALLY glad you weren't my parent, and I hope you aren't anyone's parent. I made some mistakes as a kid - but you know what my parents did - made damn sure I learned from it while ALSO being supportive and understanding, like a good parent should; not berating me and ranting b/c they were pissed off, unsympathetic, cynical adults.
I wouldn't be sympathetic with my daughter if she videotaped herself jilling off and then sent it to someone. Of course, she wouldn't, because I wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to just let my daughter do that sort of shit. Libertarianism is for adults, you can't just let (I assume) prepubescent kids run around and do shit and not give a flying fuck. Even if it did happen, which it wouldn't, I would probably go and unstraighten a certain little bastard's jawline, as well as giving my daughter a good telling off for being fucking insane enough to post her own homemade pornography on the Internet. Then I'd go and hate myself for not doing enough.
And before the feminists attack me, the same would go for any kids I may have, including sons. (And I'm generally a believer in sexual freedom for adolescents as well, so it isn't that. Just fucking common sense.)
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
I have to wonder why there isn't a well-meaning bunch of people out there putting the beatdown to people like this.
:)
I mean... You've got nutcases out there just looking for a reason to go off on someone. You've got terrorists out there looking for someone to attack, or as is more often the case, something (ie, "World Trade Center"). You have racist guys out there looking for someone to attack in the name of their "cause". You've got stalkers using the Net to hunt down their victims before attacking them...
So why isn't there a secretive group of good guys out there anonymously hunting down and beating on all these people who so deserve it? Something like the A-Team meets the Town Bully (film at 11)!
For some reason, I like the romanticism associated with a group of people who hold bullys, terrorists, and their ilk responsible for their diatribe and threats. I can almost picture them communicating and travelling secretively to anonymously deal out justice for the little guy. The slow, and pathetic justice system that we have (at least here in the USA) obviously isn't making a dent in the number of people who are abusing others, and spreading fear through the anonyminity(SP?) of the Net. More often than not, the people responsible for terrorizing others get away without so much as a warning. Meanwhile normal, innocent people are threatened, and sometimes hurt because of these jerks. Face it... Terrorism, whether to an individual or a group, works. If it didn't work, and/or if people were held accountable for their actions more often than not, perhaps this wouldn't be the case.
Example: Let's say that "Billy Bob" rapes someone, and while out on bond, awaiting trial (we'll say this is his... 3rd offence) he gets the beating of his life from a bunch of people he doesn't know, along with a threat that there'll be more if he touches someone that way again. I'll bet he would reconsider his actions a lot more than if he gets off with a fine, and another year tacked onto his probation.
The cops obviously aren't out hunting for such people. They're too busy sitting on the side of a highway, or under an overpass, waiting for crime to come to them. The cops tend not to get involved until after a threat is made a reality, and someone is severely injured or killed. We need someone(s) out there looking for warning signs, and/or precursors to a larger crime, and addressing these people before they hurt someone. A van full of "good guy terrorists" with a bat and a message seems to fit the bill!
I want to see something like that Simpsons episode where Homer becomes a good guy avenger, throwing pies at the bullys he comes across. Only without the pastries and fat guy, of course.
Perhaps if there was an anonymous threat on the table, and evidence that these guys can get to you outside of the law if you're a bad person, there wouldn't be so much anonymous bullying and slander.
At least it sounds nice. I'm sure it would raise all kinda questions about who decides who's good or who's bad, and of course what accountability would befall someone in such a position. But when I see stories like this and this, I have to think that it'd be nice to know that these people are going to get a better deterant against future crimes then a night in the clink, and a fine for their deeds. Hell, most people who go to jail for beating on someone are out within 24 hours and are able to go after their victims again, knowing that a court date is more or less a formality that they won't have to deal with for quite some time.
Absolutely concur, I wasn't being specific to any one of the kids - was making a general statement.
As far as lawsuits, that's a whole other issue which drives me nuts, suing McDonald's for making you fat, etc etc - just stupid.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
Society isn't obligated to have compassion for stupid kids. That's left for the parents to do. What they do NOT need is society coddling them. They will learn their lessons by the lack of society acceptables of their behavior.
And exactly how am I a pussy for anonymously flaming a girl in an article in a new york news paper? What, like she's going to login to slashdot and confront me - if only I had used a username? And compassion? How in the hell is having "compassion" from me going to help this girl in new york or wherever? Ridiculous.
Besides, what is your idea of compassion? I would suggest that if your idea of "compassion" is shrugging your shoulders and saying "poor poor thing" - it's more harmful than anything else.
And of course I posted anonymously. The way Slashdot is setup these days, you can find yourself unable to post for months at a time - not because of your abuse of the site - but because a handful of people disagree with your comments. So fuck that.
Anyway, you keep throwing away the word "compassion" but offer no explanation of what you mean by that and how it should manifest itself in this situation. Just another apologist for bad and stupid behavior.
I'll openly admit that I'm in this "age group". I'm 16.
/., and I would expect that at least most of you have more common sense than that.)
/.'ers linking to people commiting suicide as a result of talking on IM to people, but really, sit down, and think. IM is not any different than real life. If someone can convince someone, push some over the edge, over the instant messenger, I shudder to think what that person would be vulnerable to in real life.
If my parents knew that I had just told you people my age, my mom at least would completly flip out and be scared that someone is coming to abduct me based on this alias and that age. (But that's a different story. This is
I recently had a friend who went point-blank suicidal. I'll refer to him as a he, but note I'm not disclosing that. He threatened that he was both cutting himself and was holding a gun (.45 to be precise, a shotgun) to their head.
This was told to me over, heh, IM. (Once I realized he was serious, I called the police, meh, that's beside the point.) But, let me comment a bit on this story.
"I have kids coming into school upset daily because of what happened on the Internet the night before," Ms. Yuratovac said. " 'We were online last night and somebody said I was fat,' or 'They asked me why I wear the same pair of jeans every day,' or 'They say I have Wal-Mart clothes.' "
*gasp* Let's sit down and think here. Is this really any worse at all than something like this happening in real life? Here's a hint: it's not, it's actually easier to work with than it is in real life. Why is this? It's called the "block" button. Harsh as this may sound, if they sit there and listen to such things, all the while in perfect control and having the ability to change that, then it is in my opinion partially their fault for not clicking the block button and actually dealing with it.
Amanda has her Internet messages automatically forwarded to her cellphone, and by the end of the game she had received 50 - the limit of its capacity.
I'm going to assume ICQ or MSN were used for this, which makes it (sending of IMs to a phone) incredibly easy. MSN, it's a matter of right-clicking and hitting 'Sent to mobile device'. ICQ, just check the SMS button.
The end user is in perfect control of this, should they want this to happen. MSN it's a checkbox in the options to turn it off (which must be turned on in the first place, mind you), and ICQ it's essentially the same thing. There was nothing preventing "Amanda" from not being subjected to this. From this story, everything that happened could have been prevented with about 45 seconds of clicking. (Okay, the exception being things like this, but again, turn the phone off. There are ways of preventing this. Of course, I really, really would like to see something like an whitelist/blacklist for phone text messages in the future.)
Some of you may ask why I'm essentially "assulting the abused." I am 16, I do know what it's like when this happens, and I do know that, at times, it can cause things such as counseling, etc. etc. etc. I am not assuming that life is perfect and everyone enjoys a perfect life with no one harassing them.
It goes back to a point I made earlier: IM is not any different than real life, except in the fact that it's exponentially easier to deal with. It's the internet. If they spam your e-mail, get a new e-mail. Harass you via SMS web-to-phone? Turn it off.
Then deal with the "offenders" in real life, compared to sitting there and listening.
Like, duh? Hello? These kids don't need advice on how to stay safe online, they need a reality check. In every scneario described, it could have been changed. You hear stories like this, other
The instant messenger should be considered just as dangerous as real life, at very very most, because you don't have to be there, you have a choice not
I say alot of things people don't like to hear right to their faces. You'd think you'd get hit, but generally unless the guy is drunk or crazy nothing will happen. You see, assault is a crime. Saying something another does not like is not a crime. Even stupid people understand this. If someone ever struck me because I called them rude, told them to shut up, or asked them to control their litter of kids, I'd just take it. If they're determine I can scrap when I need to...and it's self defense so you can get dirty.
I'm sure i'll be called a pussy or a wimp but that's OK. The law is there to keep assholes who can't use their words in check.
Blar.
I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you.
But you know...no parent would ever blame their precious child for the bad things that happened to him/her...it's gotta be something else.
Blar.
Hell, I expected this to be the the triumphant return of Katz.
Another example of how strong anonymity is... Catholics regularly participate in confession. Confession is given in a little closet with a window in it that you can't see who is on the other side. Which confession do you think would be easier? this one or where you stand up and face the priest?
They made no link to video game violence !
All your lunch money are belong to us !
-- NymblZ
Ignorance is a sty in the mind's eye
Wanted to reply, but the parent said it all ; Enjoy the anonymity of the Net, don't abuse it.
Lesson Learned. I even spin some of my "sensitive" texts in the assumption that they will be read back in a court of law...
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Internet insults will get you killed. . . in Japan.
I worked as a technician at a secondary school a few years ago, and ran into this a few times. One time, I remember being called into the vice-principal's office and meeting with a police officer, who actually asked me how to proceed (obviously, this person didn't have any experience with internet investigations - when my experience was that the only group that *can* do anything is the police).
In any case, I think they knew who it was but were just looking for a way to connect this person to the site, especially when a geocities site can be created anonymously. My knowledge was limited to attempting to get the various logs and tracing through them, and I'm not sure if the police had any internal resources for this type of investigation.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
...now we got 14 year olds sending videos of themselves jerking off to boys they like.
jesus christ.
Anyone remember back when the worst thing 14 year old girls did was let some boy touch her boob after drinking a wine cooler?
ah, nostalgia.
s'wut i sed.
Isn't she the idiot lawyer from a few weeks ago who was bullying the owner of katie.com?
the correct thing to say would be:
:)
"I'd hit it!"
(Here lies SkOink killed by mods)
---- I'll take you in a Hunt deathmatch any day.
Remember, the cartoon with goofy?
They make you watch it in traffic school.
You've got some serious issues
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
True, but the Net amplifies bad manners, for the reasons the parent suggests (lack of "real-world consequences"). So the nerd (you know who you are) I would normally stuff in a trash can if he got snippy face-to-face, can now write things from the safetly of his keyboard with impunity.
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
...and you watch a video of another minor stripping, that's a felony? But if that same minor watches the other consensually strip for him in person that's legal? This boggles the mind: an analog copy - illegal, the real act - legal.
What if a minor records themself masturbating, are they then guilty of possessing child porn? What if they then watch the video of themselves as adults, are they guilty of viewing child porn? Is it possible to commit a crime against oneself?
Sorry. I let the dragon get the better of me for a post.
--- Ban humanity.
needs more Nevada-tan.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Now they're bringing their vulgar attitudes to the Internet. What's next? Games filled with sex drugs and violence?
Ban TV, playgrounds and "rap" music to keep our cyberspace clean!
Jack in from birth!
No sig for you!!
> You've got some serious issues
No shit, that's the point. They were caused by the actions of others. They shouldn't need to consult a therapist.
He is how he because of someone else -- try saying the same thing to a rape victim. The only real difference is scale.
BRAVO! And an additional layer to the problem is teaching people that "Harm" should be defined in ever increasing parameters. What was not harm a few years ago now is codified in speech codes and other informal regulation as being punishable. I think that's what the original poster of this branch of the thread was trying to say, albeit in not the most sensitive way. We're teaching people that uncomfortable or not nice things are out and out harm, -that- is lacking in compassion.
And he, or a rape victim for that matter, needs to acquire the skills necessary to deal with the past injury. Very few people (some would say none) can do this all by themselves. Therapy can help.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
What do politicians and diapers have in common?
They're both full of shit and need to be changed regularly.
Modern "compassion" leads to the little fucker who breaks into my car being back on the streets to do it again before I am done cleaning up the glass. Modern "compassion" leads to a driver who has been convicted of DUI a half-dozen times mowing down your family before he's actually punished (if then).
If western society becomes any more "compassionate," one may as well just throw away the hilariously ineffective laws we still have. There is no fear of repercussions in this world, because repercussions hardly exist anymore. Stupid little Becky is suffering the repercussions of her act, and I, for one, refuse to give it any more consideration than the brief laughter it deserves.
This increasingly filthy world needs MORE people who are willing to raise children with an understanding that one must accept the blame for one's own idiocy or shortcomings, and LESS who immediately sue the school when his obviously prize-winning kid is cut from the soccer team.
It is true that everyone makes mistakes as a kid, but only those who are forced to endure the fallout learn to look before they leap.
-
Inventor of the term 'pardon my French'.
My response to the parent poster is that kids need to be held accountable for their account BUT treated with some respect and a litte understanding for their mistakes. And also that people who say "tough shit" or "too bad" to the geeky, nerdy, outsider kids who are picked on, mocked, or harassed - need to chill out and give them a break.
You made an illogical leap. Do NOT imply that I in anyway condone or accept someone destroying your property or vehicular homicide. That's wrong, they should be prosecuted, and it's not even part of this discussion.
'The unexamined life is not worth living' - Socrates
Seriously this is a great form of entertainment when your bored... with limitations of course.
:). You can say hello formfactor you remember me you $#$%^^ %^ssy?
For instance, in a game of battlefield, pick 1 poor sap and just drill him. Tell him your gonna just frag him. Insult him as much as possible. It really is a lot of fun!!!
Especially when you see him again
Really, it souinds like a waste of time, but its great for laughs.
Hopefully you'll find a way to get through the problems and be happy. There are good people out there, hope you find one that you get along with well.
BTW, if you look to religeon, listen to the original teachers' ideas, not the modern religeous folk's specific interpretations -- the correct answers apply to your current (real) life and are universal, not whatever brand of afterlife they are touting. Ok, that was hokey. But when I gave up on religeon and started to gain a personal understanding, life got a lot better. I'm agnostic when it comes to gods, but the ideas still hold without an afterlife or concious creater.
1. New York City (the entire fucking State, too) is a cesspool.
2. It's a cesspool because you've got 8 million people living in the same city with each other. All I have to do is watch David Letterman to re-enforce this belief. I can watch COPS, and see the cesspool that Los Angeles is. People just fucking get tired of one another, and then they need to release all that anger, so they laugh when someone gets hit with a ball-bat. Or kicked in the nutz. Or run down by a car.
3. Works that way in every other large city in the Union. It's worst in the 100,000+ category, but 20,000+ is relatively bad as well. Houston, Denver, Seattle, Fresno.
4. That will teach her to have her messages forwarded. Honestly, people who do that are just asking for shit like that. I say give it to them. People that leave their Universal Plug-and-Play service enabled deserve to get fucked, too. People that leave scissors laying on their water bed deserve to have to punctured. People who leave televisions perched precariously on the stand deserve to get them knocked off when they stumble around in the middle of the night.
5. Common sense. Christ, these days it's more like UN-COMMON sense. This was not some unfortunate accident, and the girl was obviously in the right by calling out the people who ripped her stuff off. She was wrong to not expect this kind of behavior from the beginning; in the womb...
we call them ethugs
Just for clarification... a .45 in not any shotgun that I am aware of. The nearist thing is a .410 bore (gauge for you no shooting types) shotgfun. A .45 is a pistol (.45 Long Colt, .45 ACP, .45 GAP) or rifle (45-70) caliber. No that it really matters.
OK, so a girl get's picked on by a bunch of other schoolgirls via IM. What the hell was she doing giving out her IM addy's, whether it be AOL, MSN, ICQ, Yahoo, or whatnot, to begin with in school? That's just as bad as giving out your phone number to all the kid's in school, so one smartass or several smartasses can do prank call's all night long.
One would think that, just as e-mail addresses, you only give it to people you trust, and certainly not to random people. Also makes me wonder if they even knew about the block or ignore feature in several IM clients...
You must master your joystick like a fisherman masters bait! - Gimpy
and LSD.
t m
http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.h
No, more like "the bullies fail to graduate, get killed in local drunken car crashes within 3 years of dropping out of school, and the geek goes on to pull a 6 figure salary and marry a decent woman, eventually forgetting about the middle school trials."
This was less than a year after Columbine. So I felt I should call someone. I got through to some minor official at the school. It turned out to be a 12 year old, They weren't too worried. In the US, something like this probably would bring out a SWAT team.
Won't somebody think of the BULLIES????!?!
I love the altruists who think the internet is TURNING ordinary people into evil people. No, the fear of a broken face turned inherently evil people into complacent people in the first place.
and people wonder why Columbine happened. My two cents in are that fscking with the wrong person and having them snap leads to one having a bullet put in their cranium. You'd think kids these days would learn, and that society would pick up on these kinds of things. Apparently not. And just wait until some little bullied brat brings a AK47 to school and wipes out the entire football team for spamming his cell phone with txt messages.
I can't believe people take this post seriously.
i call bs
Someone keeps sending me email telling me I have a small willy, and need viagra! The madness has to stop!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
But I have no hope for humanity. My attitude has made me look at mankind very clearly and precisely, and my distaste is now based on empirical facts and no longer just vindictive emotions. Or not. Who knows.
--- Ban humanity.
*You're right, some of these kids are "severely dysfuctional ", but guess what? They probably got that way for some very complex reasons (I'd be very curious to know about their home lives, experiences, parents) and applauding or relishing in their humilation isn't going to make those kids better people.*
You've missed the point entirely: the girl is seriously messed up in the head, sent homemade porn to a boy who may not have solicited it, then cried 'unfair' when the porn was mass distributed.
She may have sexually harassed him, and if the books were turned and 10 years were added to both ages, the man would be looking at a stalking conviction and if it was his unlucky day, a rape conviction also.
And it's a damn weird thing to do.
You think she deserves understanding? What she needs is a whole lot of psychotherapy. For the parents to turn around and sue the boy/boy's parents is a cop out. "Hey, my kid isn't mature enough to have known better/kids will be kids, but your kid should be keel-hauled and thrown to the wolves by God." Riiiiiiiight.
How about both kids suffer punishment - not understanding. Standing there and patting their heads is not going to help them understand the notion 'you really fucked up; there will be consequences.'
Well?
Seriously, why go to the parants of the child; that means the parants will have a private conversation with the kid, it stays within the family walls; a lesson may be learned, or the kid may come down twice as hard on your kid cause there a 'tattle-tale'
Go to the police, you have harrassing documents, the police will entertain it- the police will have a private discussion with the kid (due to young offender laws), and a public (as in matter of record) conversation with the parants about facilitation (they provide the computer allowing the harrasement to take place); I think that might wake the parants up more then a few printed pages on paper; and getting talked to by a cop more effective then your 'attempting to be understanding' parants.
Then go to the ISP; they frown on harrassment, and will likely issue a warning or disconnect the parants account- which means that the kid won't then be able to tell all of there friends what a (insert colourful phrase here) your kid is; and it will seem, to the online word at least, that your kid won.
No need for lawyers, no need for a whole mess of effort on your part; and you show your kid how you did all of those things so that if it happens again, they don't even need to bother you to get the same result; but you check in a few times anyway- just to make sure there not botteling things.
Side note though: If your kid is putting videos of themselves on the net; you need to take them to a psycologist- fast, or some internet predator is going to eat them.
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
I hope some of you had a better experience, even within the institution. I know it can be done in many locations with the proper familial and professional guidance. I hope someday the system can be rebooted to its innate purpose, but that's virtually impossible without first totally dismantling it.
Reoccurring story. That makes it no less relevant:
U.S. President elected!
Terrorism committed!
Company defending their patent/copyright/trademark/IP claim/bought-off congresscritters...
Could be that if it happens again and again that there is something important here. Maybe even something we should try learning from. Perhaps even something which needs attention and needs to be changed.
8-PP
I tend to stay in areas where they don't keep 9s in their waists and shoot people for looking at they baby momma. I have no reason or desire to go slumming with the poor...the poor can't drive, can't raise their kids and just don't know how to behave in a civilized manner.
But you are right...I'd never get into an argument with some ghetto or trailer looking mofo with nothing to live for. I'd just walk away and remind myself to get a home defense weapon before it's too late.
Blar.
> You were never a kid were you? THis is called being a tattle tale and it makes the punishment WORSE.
There's a difference in reasonability in this case. Firstly, the thing to note is that most kids will be really mean when they think nobody (adult) is listening, but will tone it down when they find out they're not alone. The mere fact that there's a grownup on the other end of the IM will make most kids back off. Secondly, these are harassments, not threats. Sure, it can cause a backlash, but if the kid in question comes down harder, you can always do the same again, and if it gets bad enough to escalate to threats, then the letter gets mailed to the local police instead of Johnny McNasty's parents. I guarantee that it'll subside when the Man shows up on the McNasty's doorstep to discuss it.
Virg
Who said anything about abolishing the first amendment? What we ought to be doing is strengthening the 'free expression' part. As in 'you can say whatever you want, but I reserve the right to express myself by kicking your ass...' ;)
Here in the west (I don't know where you live), negative repercussions are virtually nonexistent. I witnessed it today when I attended the long-overdue eviction of a tenant from an apartment building owned by a company for which I work. He hadn't paid rent for two months, had been visited by the cops fifteen(!) times in that time period and had destroyed his suite entirely. The courts, citing "compassion" for someone who couldn't find somewhere else to live (I wonder why, not that he actually tried) had to be forced by the corporate lawyer to finally get him out. What did this cost him, other than a ruined credit rating? Zero. Cost to the company? $2000. Sure, they'll sue him for damages, but what are the odds they'll collect a nickel?
Since I doubt that his credit is a huge concern, this cretin danced away with a smile on his face (literally) with no repercussions. Frankly, by this point in the western world, I'd have been surprised to see it end any other way.
-
Inventor of the term 'pardon my French'.
a new book by jon katz on this subject. perhaps to be called "r3v3ng3 0f th3 n3rd5" to avoid copyright infringement laws...
--A witty sig proves nothing.--
> How many times are you willing to see your kid beaten to a bloody pulp by 2, 3, 4, 5 or more others, just because you think your system will work?
That's funny. This is the post-Columbine, zero-tolerance world. The rules you grew up with don't really apply any more, and the police take such a dim view of school violence these days that we have problems around my way with overcompensation, where some kid will claim he was beaten up and the "perpetrators" get to deal with the cops unless they can prove they didn't do it. So, it'd only take once to get the bullies chucked out, and then let their parents try to talk their kids back into school past a school board member holding that printout in his hand.
Virg
This is:
How would you like to SUCK MY BALLS? Do it, beyatch! NOW!
This is a personal gift to you. Mod me down. I'm pretty much maxed out as far as karma goes, and were you to actually put my plussie in jeopardy, well, we all know how easy karma is to come by. So go ahead, bitch, you know you want to. Mod me down.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
That was a troll. Learn the difference.
Oh, and by the way, your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries. I fart in your general direction. I wave my naughty bits at your auntie.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs