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Automakers Working on Car-to-Car Ad-Hoc Networks
LouCifer writes "The Register is reporting that BMW, Audi, Daimler Chrysler, Volkswagen, Renault and Fiat are working with a German government grant to help develop a standard method for car-to-car wireless networking dubbed 'NOW' (Network On Wheels). NOW is based on 802.11 and IPv6 to allow inter-vehicle communication based on ad-hoc networking to share traffic information. With routing capabilities, the hope is the vehicles will be able to warn each other - and the drivers - about bad weather, accidents and road problems. A prototype is expected by mid-2005 with field trials to start late Q1 2006."
"Wait... This can't be right... bad weather... everywhere!?"
Nothing can go wrong here. Is this the IT dork equivalent of the famous redneck "hey y'all, watch this"?
I wonder if voice communication is planned. . .
wait . . . thats a cell phone
Imagine the wonderful opportunities for those of us who participate in the fine art road rage!
Are the RIAA and MPAA going to sue automakers when P2P networks start popping up on the highways of Europe?
can get spam and porn too...
I know what's on your hard dr
I can see it now. Road rage to new extremes. Kick ban people for tailgating.
Imagine if this technology were built into large parking lots, so you would know upon entering where the nearest parking place was that did not have a likely parker approaching ahead of you...
The CB App. What's your 20?
"Michael, there's a hooker two corners up on the right."
President Bush Supporter
A little spoofing and I should be able to convince all the people ahead of me and next to me that there's an accident up ahead and they should take an alternate route.
And how many thousands of dollars extra will they charge for it?
It's called CB radio
Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
people arnt qualified to drive cars
They dont see that the most important skill is timing! (of couse that assumes that you are paying attention to what you are doing in the first place!)
Now Entering... #401-West-Toronto on crc.ontario.ca
Welcome yup28! Please read the !rules
[p1geon] hey yup!
[yup28] !rules
[yup28] oh hey p1ge... just checking rules... brb2min
*** OPP1 sending you rules.txt: Read them carefully please, and you can help stay safe while driving.
[alsz847] Yes! I just got the lastest version of XP over C2C. Remember when we used to have to pay for it before MSC went under???
[geek-boy] Yeah? Where you headed now anyway?
[geek-boy] omg that was years ago als... you must be old
[speedy] WTF Cut me off asshole!!!!
* speedy slaps geek-boy with a large trout
[geek-boy] Sorry... I was lighting a smoke.
[angel-eyez2] heya boys...
[alsz847] it says this has some new features like a fenderwall and splat... wtf is a splat
[geek-boy] hey angel... you are looking spiffy today!! *whistle*
[angel-eyez2] pfft ya right that hair is so y2k... nice try tho studly studderson
[speedy] als: it's a bug remover... for your windows... except it cleans windshields too
[alsz847] Argh. I crashed.
[alsz847] Hold on guys.
[speedy] serves you right driving like you're on crack ffs j/k
[alsz847] Is there an admin in here???!?!?!?!
[alsz847] FUCK ME!!! AAAARGGGGH I"M ON FIRE!!!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH IT HURTS!!!!
[geek-boy] you ok d00d??? omg!!!
[angel-eyez2] i'm near him... his car's on FIRE! 0mg he's cute!!!
[angel-eyez2] msging admin for him
*** OPP-J55 has entered #401-West-Toronto
[speedy] thank god, a cop when ya need one
[OPP-J55] What seems to be the problem?
[angel-eyez2] check my pos, OPP... I'm at the accident with alz
[yup28] hi is anyone here?
[[[* C2C: {car2car}]]]
1. Viruses.
2. Malware forcing ads onto speedometer.
3. Hackers reversing the pedal controls.
and of course...
4. Car networks becoming sentient and attempting to destory humanity.
Just a boy doing unproffesional IT work that's way above his head.
But hey, now you can run a jerk off the highway AND the 'superhighway' at the same time!
I think it would be great to be able to send messages to other drivers. I'd like some precanned ones like 'Get out of the left lane slowpoke', 'Try a turn signal', 'Off My Ass' just to name a few. I realize that this probably isn't what the article is about (of course I didn't read it) but that's what comes to mind when I think of a car to car network.
As x approaches total apathy I couldn't care less.
Now I'm going to start seeing "PWNX0R3D N00B" on my car stereo every time someone cuts me off...
I'd be waiting for someone to write something to send out bogus information.
"[insert your favorite road] is blocked due to a 20 car pile-up. Try a different route."
At the same time, you drive though with mysteriously light traffic.
First, they're going to install communication systems on all cars, then I'm going to lose all my points on my cab-driving license after the car phones home during an accident, then they're going to ask me to save the universe.
...Multipass!
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Cars connect to a network, and then to each other? So virtually unlimited range? Does this mean one could use the system as a virtual chat with that annoying guy on the freeway who's in the carpool lane by his lonesome during rush hour?
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
Based on 802.11 and IPv6 might be good for ease of implementation but how long will it be before someone trys to spread spurious reports with a normal laptop?
Great. As if cell phones are not a big enough distraction, now we'll have to contend with drivers downloading mp3s, rolling game rooms and drive-by hackings.
Maybe instead of using of misunderstood hand signals, we could type or talk to others. This coudl reduce road rage! This will fix every problem on the road today!!!
Or we'll just find that the middle digit really means F$#@ you.
126
Ask me about my vow of silence!
Hurling profanities out the window was starting to strain my vocal cords.
What we need is a network on legs as I point out here: http://slashdot.org/~fccoelho/journal/ And, As a bonus, we would have a network that would not be controlled by corparations but by people!
Looking past the uses in TFA, one good though far off possibility is to have cars all travelling to the same route "train up" real close to each other - one lead car makes the decisions, cars can peel in and out as their route dictates etc. For long journeys, rotate the front duty, just as you see olympic cycle teams do. The long chain of cars uses less fuel than the same number of independant cars, and behaves only slightly more complex than one car.
Obviously this is in the self drive car realm of probabilities, but hey, we might as well try.
Oh yeah, "imagine an ad hoc network of these" jokes coming soon
great, now also they'll get me for a moving violation when I'm using bittorrent
-- i am jack's amusing sig file
but why would I want my car to be wireless enabled. It's scary to even begin to think about the hacking potential. I would have to be very convinced that the wireless system was completely seperate from the essential elements required to operate the vehicle safely before I even considered using this.
In addition to this issue, there is enormous potential for abuse if just anybody is allowed to report this kind of information.
Can anyone say P2P on wheels???
-- +
Now geeks can pick up girls by hacking their cars!
Well we may not pick them up, but we can hack their cars!
I've wanted to see this for years. And the reason for such a network is simple. So cars can trade their audio collections as they drive down the highway.
Carol: I just hate driving down to your 'rents for Xmas, honey. The traffic on 95 is horrible, particularly at the Delaware Bridge...
Bob: I've got an idea... an hour before we leave, I'll just hack in a traffic report of a huge accident so that cars will re-route. It will be clear sailing for us!
Carole: Oh, Bob... You're such a hot stud. I'm so glad I married Geek...
Do you really think that this would be beneficial? People posting false information to direct traffic as well as another gadget to distract drivers, is this really needed? I think they should work on automated driving before they try and throw more distractions into the mix.
Maybe I am just being a bit to cynical, but this will help me in what way?
My car will be able to tell me that there is a traffic jam two miles ahead? Usually, that warning is way too late to do me any good.
Or, my car could tell me that the road is icy? Well, I could just stick my hand out the window and discover that it is cold.
Wake me up when there's a real benefit. In the meantime, I must remind myself that this comes from the same country (Germany, for the most part) where they invented a computer screen -- "I-Drive" -- inside BMW's. Nothing like fiddling with a computer screen while my car is flying down the road at 80 miles per hour.
war driviging....
wonder what the access will be to the end-user (car owner) is it going to be a closed spec thing? or nice and open, allowing internet access, etc...
(i'd rtfa, but its kaput)
Takes wardriving to a whole different level.
Of course it would be handy to know if there were a speed trap down the road :-)
*K.I.T.T. Be more worried about the A-Team van...
Most promising impact is said to be achieved by communicating Anti-lock braking system information between cars. Complexity is minimal regarding the information to be processed, as well as how to display warnings:
Put on a warning light and a beep, when roads get icy.
This is the most obvious possible use for car-to-car networking, the one that first occurs to absolutely everyone, and it's taken until the tail end of 2004 for manufacturers to start on it? Come on! Let's see some innovative technologies! Ride recommender systems, supplemental navigation based on cars' aggregate observed quality of road surfaces, collaborative radio -- anything but "Duh, we'll use it to make traffic flow better." XM and Acura already did that. Try something interesting.
6. ???
7. Profit!
The CB App. What's your 20?
Just imagine the BitTorrent bandwidth of a traffic jam!
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Whew thats a relief, better keep it the way it is, don't want it to drop to 1%...
Is this an implementation of Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)? An IETF working group has been around for a while. If I remember correctly, original motivation of the group was to create dynamic routing technology for the battle field communication.
You dumb shit - the article doesn't even mention Firefox. Take your stupid ass flame-baiting elsewhere.
so many more ways to communicate road rage now. I won't have to roll down the window when its cold anymore.
h3y a55 U cut m3 0ff.
I 4m g0nn4 kill y0u.
Obama is a twitter sock puppet
Seems like infrared would pollute the airwaves less than radio. More line of sight, works in fog, cheaper. Subject to less interference.
Actually, I'm expecting the "imagine a beowulf cluster of these" jokes.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
Or how to crash a computer and a car all at once.
forAll cars in [vicinity]
if (car.os.name like '%indows%')
RPC(exploit, crash)
Where "RPC" is your default weather file format buffer overflow.
TODO: 753) write sig.
...the unmoving beowulf cluster on the 101 north could host an infinite number of unslashdottable websites.
From my apt, every time a bus goes by, it seems that there is a new signal that I detect. So it seems that someone is already doing this. I just noticed this today when I left my wireless sniffer online, and came back to find 40 different MAC's recorded. Either this or there is something REALLY strange going on.
The other strange part is that the signal strength I'm getting off of these MAC is enormously large. I'm in the same room as my access point, and I don't get a signal anywhere near as strong from it, and the busses are down three floors and out on the street. I have to wonder if they are even following FCC regs on signal strength, or if they have been "boosted" so they can do whatever they are being used for.
About doing peer-to-peer radar detectors. It'd be really nice to know if a car up ahead detected a radar signal instead of waiting until it's pointed at mine :)
Every once in a while I see shows about the work being done on cars that drive themselves. They're always just 10 years or so off in the future.
If we ever do get to that point though, this networking would be very useful. Picture cars driving down the highway like a school of swimming fish. Something jumps into the road? The entire group of cars all move to the right all together.
I'd hate to be the guy in the "manual" style cars at the time though.
Finally we'll be able to mod other drivers properly:
-1, Crashbait
-1, Tailgater
-1, Ugly kid in rear-facing seat on long trip
+1, Thanks for actually using that turn signal thingy
+1, Hey hottie, can I get your phone number?
I've been waiting on this for years.
Imagine cars sharing the following telemetry:
Position based on next-gen GPS and other sources (sensed road reflectors, INS etc), Speed, proposed route (base on driver navigation input), other nearby vehicles (based on forward and rearward collision sensors), road conditions, traffic conditions, accidents (airbag deployments etc.).
If you get ALL the cars on a particular road or tollway to participate as nodes on such a network and get each node to be intelligent enough you could finally do automated driving. Nodes would have to cooperate to relay information, make group decisions and weed out malfunctioning nodes.
Imagine a row of cars: Car 1&2 transmit an airbag deployment, car 3 transmits a collision warning of stopped vehicles ahead of it, cars 3-10 simultaneously brake while the odd ones go left and the even ones go right. For miles in each direction the navigation information gets updated and everyone starts choosing alternate routes.
How long will it be until our cars are catching viruses, worms, and trojans?
And what guarantee do we have that said network will be isolated from the engine systems?
Perhaps I'm being paranoid. But they laughed at me when I said Microsoft's invisible hand was writing SCO's lawsuits. Who's laughing now?
Hopefully it would give me some heads up on speed traps on the way to work.
now we can use cars as routers and repeaters.
ANother way to route internet traffic. SO next time there is a power outage, the signal can move from verhical ti vehical until it's out of the disaster area.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"You have 1 new IM:
GuyBehindU: Hey, ASSHOLE! You cut me off!!!!!"
Car #1:
Id: 39382730
Speed: 180MPH
Azimuth: 0 degrees
Pos: x: 546, y: 157
Car #2:
Id: 5937263
Speed: 180MPH
Azimuth: 180 degrees
Pos: x: 546, y: -242
Car #1: *Auto-Pilot Engaged*
*Swerve*
*Crash*
Car #2: Heh heh!
Car #3:
Id: 2389467
Speed: 150MPH
Azimuth: 90 degrees
Pos: x: -100, y: -454
Car #2:
Id: 5937263
Speed: 150MPH
Azimuth: 270 degrees
Pos: x: -200, y: -454
I've toyed with the idea of what it might be like if people driving could hear each other. People are certainly un-civil in face-to-face situations as well, but not nearly as un-civil as they are in quasi-anonymous settings like driving in dense traffic. If people could hear what others are saying to them when they're rude, maybe we'd be less rude. Most people who cut off other drivers or do other blatantly selfish (and stupid) things to "get ahead" in traffic, would never attempt the equivalent in person. For instance, in a grocery store line: if someone cut in, they'd be given to understand that their behavior was not ok.
Plus, I bet that if we could hear each other in cars, a lot of what we take for rudeness would just turn out to be stupidity or inattentiveness. I get a lot less angry at someone who screws up because they're stupid or weren't paying attention than I do at someone who intended to be a jerk. I bet that it would cut way down on so-called "road rage."
I did RTFA, but I think intra-car voice communications would be an interesting outgrowth to pursue.
~
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." -Emerson
While I have only seen commercials for the Acura RL it has the technology already built in. However the RL is getting the traffic information from those funny solar pannels on the sides of the road. It is actually pretty slick because the RL uses XM radio as the delivery method for the traffic information provided by Traffic.com. This is already a multi-million dollar project funded by the US Government.
Car-to-Car P2P. Now I can get my warez while driving to the grocery store.
This would be a cool way to implement wireless internet access in remote areas. Imagine taking a cross-country road trip and letting the kids in the back seat surf the net by routing the packets from car to car, back to the nearest stationary access point. As long as there's a certain minimum amount of traffic, you'd pretty much always be connected, even out in the middle of Saskatchewan.
A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
Start broadcasting fake traffic news and take the less congested road instead.
Imagine the suprise of a driver, that there is a tornado down the road and its snowing behind them.
Sig it.
the only thing holding it back is liability.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Better Now we can do file sharing with each other while on the road - now RIA, thats what I call a moving target!!
Once there is a standard link in all cars it will allow a swarm like behavior in traffic. So instead of people taking the reigns in bumper to bumper traffic the cars and talk and decide amongst them selves what the best way to handle the situation. Each car will be interconnected to the others and as a cluster can decide how to best make traffic move.
This could also work as a sort of mass transit system on regular roads. If all cars can talk to each other they can notify the "train" that they are on the on-ramp looking to join in. Each car could be very close to the one in front and behind because there wouldn't be any surprises and sudden stops could be transmitted through the chain of cars.
If each car was equipped with such a system there would be more than enough computing power between all of them to manage the roads. They could even put in software that controls the traffic lights. When a large cluster of cars is approaching a light they can notify the light ahead and they can work out the optimal way to manage the stream of cars.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
for some time. Used a wireless hub with remote antenna to move data from my laptop, which was onsite converting pics from a digital camera, to an HP printer located in the car trunk. It let me deliver print orders before I left the site. Sometimes, before I had even packed.
After I had no need of it, I installed this rig in the van, which was lent to one of my friend's teenaged game-mavins. He bought two PCMCIA wireless cards so he could shre with his friends. Apparently a drive-up game of CS is considered cool.
Granted, not as slick as designed-in...
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
I can see it now - speed signs that get telemetry directly from the car and issues a ticket when you are going over the limit.
i was reading about something like this in popular science and was kinda suspicious of it, but reading this, i think that since the car's onboard computer (running windows) is whats calculating traffic conditions / weather / etc that it actually wouldn't be that bad. it would just be something that truly runs in the background that the driver doesn't need to deal with.
with this, gps and the ability to communicate with oncoming traffic lights, i really do think that this is an improvement. and as popsci said, our transportation grid will start acting in an efficient, biological manner
Speed trap in 1500 feet. Thanks NOW!
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
How long until they combine this with the upcoming black box recorders in cars so my car can politely inform the officer that while I'm not speeding right now, I was going 15 over three miles back?
Drat! My car is gonna look really ugly covered in tinfoil.
Someone pulls up next to you and yells "Hey, dumb ass your door is ajar!"
I think something cool would be a HUD for every window. Like the HUD you see in flight sim games where other 'ships' are shown as dots or squares or some sort. Then you could set it to show you the 'name' of every vehicle (which you set as you get in) and the speed and relative distance of each vehicle. This would be especially useful in snowy, foggy or rainy weather where visibility is limited.
You could have the option to toggle what you see as well.
the cars all start asking each other if they've seen someone named Sarah Connor.
Hey moron, your turn signal has been on for the last 3 km!
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." ~Plato (427-347 BC)
10.0 Good Buddy!
Essentially, it's exploring ways that moving vehicles can automatically set up temporary links with other cars, bikes and trucks in the vicinity, and share traffic information.
I'm stuck on how the hell you would operate a connection like that while on a bike. At least when I ride a bike, I use two hands - and I haven't quite mastered the Doc Oc technology yet.
However, I bet a -lot- of the truckers out there would love to transmit pictures to reckless drivers of what happens when four wheelers cut off 18 wheelers. "Here is your car. Here is your car being scraped off my grill after you pull in front of me and hit the brakes."
He's just zis guy, you know?
when everyone has hard-drive based car stereos (replacing the need for CD changers) and use 802.11 to rip music files from the car next to you. Now THAT would be cool. You could even set up small share directories on your car stereo, turning everyone into a mini-radio station. Sure, probably all kinds of legal issues involved but it would be a fun toy and interesting way to pass the time while on long trips.
I can see problems with this idea:
1. In order to be of much use, a sustem like this would need to be ubiquitous. If only a small number of vehicles are equipped, the network will only be of use in very rare circumstances.
2. Such a system will add costs to the production of a vehicle while providing no return for the early adopter.
3. Even if every new car gets equipped with these, the average lifespan of a well maintained automobile is 20 or more years. Will the system be maintained and backwards compatible forever, or at least through around 2024?
4. How will this system account for the vehicle not so equipped? If people begin to rely on the data the NOW system gives them, and they have an accident involving an unequipped vehicle, who is liable?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
I've always wondered what would would happen if I were hit with spam at 130kph.
Welcome to the land of the free...pay toll ahead...no photography...please open your bag...
Go suck your dad's cock you nigger ass communist piece of shit
Given that, what is your local Police force going to want from NOW? Hmmm, anyone want a car that rat's them out for speeding because you passed an RF trigger in a lamppost? Anyone want a car that the Police can disable with a click of a mouse? Anyone want a car that automagically reports your HOV lane abuses? How about parking meters that automagically tally your parking charges, payable the next time you go to register your vehicle...
And that is just a trivial example. Not only is the potential for abuse (malware Et. Al.) high, the potential for unsavory but legitimate use is astronomical...
How many of us are aware of the information collected and stored by the chip what controls the air bag in our cars? Great, so now instead of having to physically access this device, it can now just broadcast the information to concerned parties.
Personally, my license plate is more than enough identifying info for my car. If I want to know about accidents and road conditions so badly, I'll install a CB scanner and listen to the truckers...
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
So the question becomes one of: Can I cluster these things and get more horsepower? Will that make me get to the end of my route faster than the guy who's still running a PII at 60MPH?
HexaByte - he's a square and a half!
A good idea, but if any car can report information to others, it could just as easy send false signals. If people are allowed to hit a button to send info about things like speed traps, I could see cops setting up areas that constantly broadcast a "speed trap" signal. I can see it in a few years: "Woah dude, A speed trap every 20 meters"
"However, alongside the rewards there's a risk to personal liberties, as the potential is once again opened for government and law-enforcement agencies to track vehicle movement. Something we'll undoubtedly be forced to swallow on the grounds it allegedly makes terrorism less likely. Along with the ID cards, phone taps, satellite tracking, CCTV cameras et al that are supposedly keeping us safe."
Some people will look for excuses to rant on individual liberty in anything.
Will my Nintendo DS work with this? The possibilities are endless...
(Please browse at -1 to read this comment.)
"You've got no traction" ...
.
"Goodbye!"
Great, now in addition to getting advertisements on the radio, I'll get spammed with advertisements by passing cars...
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Fucking K.I.T.T. would sodomize and destroy the weak ass A-Team van.
Give me a break
Now we can all be Picard!
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Could become interesting....
I'm a VW enthusiast and I can rattle off a rather long list of great options that are available to European buyers of VW cars that those of us in the enthusiast community would love to be able to utilize but can't because for whatever reason VW doesn't think those of us in the US are worthy of getting the new geek toys. Such as:
... etc. etc. etc.
... yes, I have reactivated some of these "missing" parts on my car, and believe that they should have been there from day one instead of my having to spend multiple hours reversing the end effects of a carmaker's determination to decontent their product and still charge us more every year.)
- HID/xenon headlamps (better visibility)
- Headlight washers (same as above)
- Rear fog light (see cars ahead in heavy fog)
- Front fog lights (see ahead in heavy fog)
- In-car navigation (turn by turn routing)
- Parking distance sensors (avoid hitting things)
- Better seats (improved comfort)
- Upgraded instrument clusters (electronic display)
- Better diesel engines (less emissions & cost)
- All-wheel-drive (safety in bad conditions)
- More color choices (aesthetics)
- "Smart" service intervals (fewer failures)
- Handsfree phone kits (less distraction)
- Radios that can receive traffic information
If these things appear on US-market cars, they're dumbed down, cheapened, or otherwise made useless, but more likely we don't get these things at all. Enthusiasts like me have to pay a premium (often twice what the options cost at purchase time) to get the same things that SHOULD be available, but aren't. We get no dealer support, we get no vendor support, dealers will void warranties FOR INSTALLING GENUINE VW PARTS that we WERE NOT OFFERED WHEN WE BOUGHT THE CAR BUT SHOULD HAVE BEEN, etc. etc., even if the dealer does the install when you pay them to (some will, some won't).
In short, VW doesn't really care about the US market, so don't expect to see the benefits of this any time soon if you live here in the US. They are FINALLY starting to notice that people are demanding these options, now that the competition is providing them (the Mazda 3, for example, has HIDs now, where the new Golf -- which has been on sale in Europe for THREE YEARS and we still don't get it, and won't, til next year -- will PROBABLY, but not definitely, finally offer them to US buyers). VW views us as an afterthought and is only finally giving in to the enthusiast community (and the public at large, which also wants convenience and comfort and safety, but doesn't know what shops to go to that can import stuff for you) now that people are defecting and going to other brands who DO listen.
(in case you're wondering
i am a soviet space shuttle
Great! Another medium for the ad/media companies to exploit.
I can see it coming. Before any means of conveying useful information is anywhere near complete, this system will already be used to track your driving habits and display tailored advertising information.
"Hi JOHN Q PUBLIC! We noticed you didn't seem to stay long at the mall! Why don't you try the excellent selection, low prices, and soul-sucking faceless consumerism at WAL-MART? Just take a left up here on Big Brother Boulevard..."
perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
Don't know about the rest of the country, but here in the Midwest, you'll be warned of nearby police when someone flashes their high beams.
Curator of the Jefferson Computer Museum http://www.threedee.com/jcm
Where I am going is another story. And getting the government to up the speed limit to such a level . . .
Do not touch -Willie
[It's called CAN] and like I2C, its been around for ages.
You are mistaken about CAN. You either didn't read the article too closely or you have no friggin clue what CAN is. Probably the latter given your incoherent off-topic rant about Linux (WTF?).
CAN stands for Controller-Area-Network. It is not limited to use in automotive applications--it is a widely used technology for industrial automation (intelligent devices that use the open communications standard called DeviceNet). In and of itself it provides no wireless functionality, ad-hoc configuration and doesn't use the IPv6 protocol (or IPvANYTHING--it uses CIP). In automobiles, it is used by electronics systems to communicate with and control various systems. The diagnostic port on mostly European cars is handled by CAN chips.
It cannot communicate at speeds over 1 megabit per second, and it cannot communicate outside of the automobile or local control system network without extra help. OTOH unlike ethernet it is fully deterministic and has reliability mechanisms at the hardware level (that is, it guarantees data packets arrive when you want them, in the correct order).
This new thing has NOTHING AT ALL to do with CAN...it looks more like "Rendezvous for Cars" and looks very interesting indeed. Of course, with all the exciting useful things comes potential abuses (mis-applied, could Big Brother monitor and collect data about your driving behaviour? Photo radar is bad enough already).
I've been thinking about this one for a while now. In fact it was part of a thunk on how to create driverless traffic. Meaning you get to relax on the way into work, the car gets you there on time with little or no hassle.
:)
My thoughts were generally, each car is a node in a network of cars. They'd use a network built with the cars surrounding yours. In close traffic like rush-hour you might still be able to hit 60mph on average with very few slowdowns simply because every car knows where every other car WANTS to go and so accommodations are made automatically, perfect merges. Sort of like this except traffic's flowing in the same direction.
Even if a user chose to drive the car himself. If all cars have the computer and telemetry of the cars around them, all cars would be able to react to the one lone self-drivers foibles because his car tells all the others what's going on.
Of course if somebody hacks his transponder then you might have some trouble. As with any technology, there's an upside and a downside.
And then I stop and think, wouldn't this all go away if I was just telecommuting instead?
I had this idea years ago, but it was limited to just wireless internet, not using it to report specific local conditions to the node.
I don't think it will catch on. Why is this any better than just putting some permanent fixtures in certain areas with some long distance optical/radio transmition? How is having 50 cars in a traffic jam going to give you any more information than one permanent camera with some robot vision?
Also, the permanent fixture gives you the option of knowing about things even when your fancy cars aren't around.
Do you really want to let Big Brother into your garage? It's bad enough that insurance companies may start monitoring speed to offer lower rates. I have a great driving record, no accidents, no tickets in quite a while, but I regularly drive 5-10 miles over the limit, more in some places (they have some antiquated speed limits in my city). I hope this fails miserably.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
NOW IM from Retro128:
[Retro128] Spd teh fuk up n00b, whr u lrn 2 drv?
-R
...of serving up bittorrent files from your car as you cruise around. Whole new traffic patterns would emerge as people try to just get that last 1.5% of 1.66Gb.
...a beowulf cluster of ... ... VW Beetles ... Ferrari's ... Hummmers ... 18-wheelers
The trout gives you away :-)
You could've hired me.
What exactly would be the purpose of this?
100% Insightful
Think any of the researchers are fans of Cory Doctrow?
This sounds akin to the highway networks described in his fiction novel Eastern Standard Tribe
From the book:
"Drivers on the MassPike who used traffic jams to download music from nearby cars and then paid to license the songs. Only they didn't. They circumvented the payment system in droves, running bootleg operations out of their cars that put poor old Napster to shame for sheer volume..."
Sounds like fun ;-)
What is the point of car to car networking other than to have ads pushed, or have people scream at you because you are not moving fast enough.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
Driving is a co-operative thing. Traffic has properties of fluid and properties of dynamic packets on a switched network, each with discrete start and end points. By not following a set of pre-ordained rules that all fellow traffic drivers share, you are fucking shit up.
I hope you learn how to drive co-operatively with others thanks to technology like this, because fucktards like you cause congestion and impede the normal flow of traffic.
See also: traffic waves.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I think many of the posters here are over-estimating what the capabilities of this network will be.. at least initially. The idea is for vehicles and on-board navigation systems to be better aids to drivers.. not for drivers to talkchat/IM back and forth. I envision something like a cop rolling up on the scene of an accident, firing up his computer and broadcastign that an accident has occured. This message gets shot bak up the road in both directions informing cars of the accident. That's it. It's then left up to the nav system to decide which route one should take. Of course the vehicles will be estimating the congestion and stuff, but that's all minor details. Yes.. there is a the possibility of script kiddies and hackers doing devious things, but that's the nature of the beast. Those implementing this network need to be careful to implement things in a secure manner.. firstly that means using something stronger than WEP (if they fuckin; use WEP, I'll kick some ass!).
What is your penile percentile?
Considering RADAR dectectors are illegal in most European contries, this network should be a boon. Now a network algorithm to determine which roads are conjested.... "too many nodes up ahead"
TODO: create/find/steal funny sig.
So the person tailgating me wasn't a bad driver--he was just trying to steal some bandwidth?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
I used to work for a company that tried to deploy selfrouting 802.11b network.
If you talk about proof of concept, it works. But for real usage, it sucks. Main problem is to detect what is usuful neighbor. We used to send some control messages (although there already are beacon frames in 802.11), and to collect its signal. But signal strength is not a measure of link quality. As long as there is direct optical visibility, signal level can be really low, but link will be perfect. If you don't have optical visibility, you will receieve some packets, probably most of them - but once you try to send some real traffic over that link, everything will go to hell.
Algorithm (we used to use AODV) per se works ok; there is a whole theory about these algorithms; but in a case of 802.11b, there is no mean (at least no mean known to me) to detect what neighbor is useful one.
As a result, we had to abandon this idea, and we moved to static routes; but it does not help in case of moving vehicles.
All in all, don't expect this to work too reliably except when you are close to access points (or "access points", since this will be ad-hoc mode of 802.11b).
No sig today.
(and yes, people hacking it will be an issue)
* Traffic notification - this is almost the least the system can do. Easy to implement, too - just base it off the speed of the vehicle.
* Auto-follow. Imagine if the cruise control on the guy ahead of you worked better. It would reduce the incidence of "phantoms", where there's a slow down for no good reason. And at a stop light, everyone would start accelerating at the same time, smoothly.
* Mesh-based phone. Cringely (I think) did an article on this a while ago. Imagine if there were a decent-bandwidth mesh node in each GM car. Do it right, and now they have their own network. It's competition for the cell-phone market.
* Network services. Sure, more stuff to pay for. But, could be cool. Music streamed to your car, movies on demand, etc, etc. And you're not limited by towers, just by the number of hops.
And hey, it's not a centralized auto-pilot system. Decentralized, IMHO, is better.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
My Owner is a nearsighted, absentminded, prig.
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Eastern Standard Tribe Aparrently instead of paying a toll for the New Jersey Turnpike, one downloads music, then pays for it at the gate. Don't ask me tho...
OK, some of this could be just down-right cool. GPSs that talk to each other and warn the drive of impending crashes (within 100 feet of each other of course), sharing weather data between cars (Suzie's Matrix says the outside temp is 5 Degrees), not to mention all the other statistics that higher end German cars collect. On the other hand, you know that in-car text messaging will become the new fad of the '10s.
There has been an idea to use this sort of technology for a while- Circumnav Networks aims to allow cars to share information on traffic patterns and such, so that the driver can determine the quickest route to his (or her) destination.
Their website is a little sketchy, but from what I hear, it looks cool.
When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
It's so the government can 'turn off' all of the cars when they want to, uh I meant, when they think there is a threat to them somewhere, for our own protect of course. Yea, for our own protection, that's it.
The trout is from mIRC
yea well...that Tron tv show copy thing would run squares around KITT....man :D
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Holy crap!! Flashing high beams! I would've figured it to be a little too cold to do that this time of year?
Along with warning about accidents or shared traffic information this same communication system could be used to organize consumer buying power.
Just imagine that cars, within a 5 mile radius, with 1/4 or less fuel left in their gas tanks all communicate with each other indicating "filler up time". The communication system assembles a list of 20 plus cars that that have a desire to fuel up in the next 45mins. A local gas station is tied into this same system and offers to these drivers a limited time discount for these vehicles to fill up at that particular gas station.
The driver saves money and the station gets additional customers.
Pros: If each car could act as a router, the internet could run in part on highways. (even interstate highways, Mr. Gore :-)
Cons: One broadcast storm or serious vulnerability, and both the internet and the interstate highways could crash.
WestWorld: Where nothing can go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong
This sounds a lot like the Car-to-Car peer network used for music trading along the Mass Pike in Eastern Standard Tribe Great book and definitely worth the download.
can anyone say DOM(Denial of Motion) attack?
Yeah, like this technology will come to america in the next 20 years. There is so much privacy crap and all that. The only problem with this technology, which can be fixed very easily, is that you could send viruses (or viri?) through it, which could be very easily fixed by not letting anything go through the network except the traffic info, etc.
-David Grubba
we could make a Beowulf cluster out of cars?
With this technology, they should outfit all cars with geiger counters hooked to the network.
That way, if a terrorist was transporting a nuke down a highway, a swarm of sensors could pick it up and transmit alerts to the authorities.
Granted, there would probably be issues with trucks carrying smoke detectors and cars with people who have been treated with radiation....but I think this would work better than physical checkpoints built into static points on a roadway.
The station could just advertise it's location, without discount and get 70% of those same customers, making more money in the process.
The best you could think of is Traffic Warnings?
How about cars that could drive themselves?
It would give new meaning to the phrase "network packet collisions" at any rate.
C'mon guys ... some of you are too harsh. Let the technology come out and then we'll see what can be done.
Apart from traffic information and other data that could be collected, I have to think that making a "cop grid" via data feedback from radar and laser detectors, plus "panic button" cop detections. Of course, it won't be long lived as GPS is integrated into our cars and more systems go into place to start ticketing us automatically.
Dammit, where are my flying cars?! I want my flying cars!!!
I can see it now - spammers cracking the car control system and forcing the car to drive to a back alley.
They wouldn't release control of the car until you bought some body part enlargement drugs.
If this comes to pass it may actually be good.
Everyone speeds. Even someone like myself who tries to stay around the speed limit (cause I can't afford a ticket) will sometimes exceed the speed limit by up to 20mph.
The reason cops get away with ticketing people is because they don't ticket that many. MOST people don't get caught.
Now imagine the uproar there would be if everyone in town started getting tickets daily.
People would finally get off their asses and put a stop to what was an annoyance. They will either abolish the speeding ticket, or more likely, they will actually raise the speed limits to a point somehwere above that which most people would consider safe for a particular road.
The speeding ticket would then apply only to those truly driving dangerously.
But can you have a halo party on your interstate trip over a CB radio? I think not.
Imagine people start talking to their "neighbours" during drive, instead of just signalig them :)
Could be fun
4Z5TX
Your car recording your speed and position and giving it to authorities (respect my authori-tay!) is possible now. The infrastructure to support automated driving at 150mph is WAY off.
There are still cars 50+ years old driving around. Are you going to share the roads with them? Not safe. Or just expect them to modify their cars to work? Won't happen, too much money involved. Some countries in Europe require your vehicle to be in exquisite shape, not even messed up paint or rust to drive. I couldn't possible imagine this happening in the US.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
I thought about this after having read a similar proposal a year ago on a blogger's post. For people who wardrive, couldn't this very feature be added on netstumbler quite easily? Mac-heads running iChat and Rendezvous have been reaping the benefits of zeroconf and ad-hoc networks for years now, the same can easily be done for wifi devices such as PDA's with a wardriving kit (GPS, high power antenna, etc.).
Linux at home
...could your car be hax0red, as in The Wrath of Khan?
"But that's O.K. I don't have anythig to hide!"
"Mrs. Buttle, we deeeply regret..."
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
What do you get when road rage meets a flamewar?
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
This sure sounds like one of the ideas in _Eastern Standard Tribe_ (available for free download). Because of the ways that cars interact (moving around and so forth), something like a P2P system makes sense.
"The purpose of argument is to change the nature of truth." -- Bene Gesserit Precept
You've got flipped off!
Or:
It looks like you're trying to insult the driver in front of you. Would you like to:
Honk horn
Flash headlights
Send goatse to other driver's HUD
what they should do is program them to connect to any available WiFi network, then repeat it as the "NOW" wireless network
then each car could repeat that signal.
just think cars all over the city broadcasting and re-brodcasting FREE WiFi internet. no more need for APs placed throughout the city
Notifications of speedtraps.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
This is a really exciting field. Much of this data already exists in different forms. Combine that with a way to adapt information based upon events, such as a broken-down car or construction closing a lane, then put on top of that the ability to pack cars together 10 feet apart at 50mph safely.
All of a sudden you don't need to widen a freeway by two lanes because the existing one can be used much more efficiently. Pollution and gas consumption goes down because a car running at 50 uses a lot less energy than one which is going 0-60-0-60-0-60, even with a hybrid.
On top of that, you save a lot of money avoiding the most avoidable fender-benders, and probably saving more than a few people from death or serious (and expensive) injury.
And you get to leave for work 10 minutes later without worrying about being late. What's not to like?
The same proposal has been tried by the US govt, under the guise of safety, but the pitch is tilted to more anti-terrorist uses. My particular car company is avoiding it like the plague. However, it may be mandated if the "safety" angle doesn't sell. Bush is asking the car companies to absorb the cost. How much extra do you want to pay for this? Exactly.
Try this: http://www.roadragecards.com/samples.htm Rather convenient communications and the information travels at the speed of light. Booya.
You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
This was my idea over a year ago, but the dumb vc's wouldn't invest in it! GRRR!
My sig is as boring as you...
Wonder if I can share everyones car music over the NOW network that will really f@&k up the RIAA .
IMO there is WAY too much fluff and electronic gadgetry incorporated in autos today.
Until there is some miraculous breakthrough in automotive technology that revolutionizes transportation as we know it, I will be content driving my little Toyota econobox to and from work/school.
my rants about modern car tech:
- I know how to read a $3 map, why should I spend a thousand bucks for a machine that can try and do it for me?
- I am perfectly able to roll down my own window. I don't need the assist of a motor. (ever try getting just the right adjustment on a automatic window with the one-touch-all-the-way-down feature so you get fresh air but no wind noise?)
- I can take the time to manually lock and unlock my doors. I don't need a button on my keychain to do it for me.
- I can tell when it is raining, sleeting, or even snowing out. I don't need wipers that 'sense' when it is raining and turn themselves on.
I am not stupid or lazy (at least that is what I tell myself), I don't need a vehilce built for someone who is.
...I'm gonna start riding a bicycle:
YOU: "I'd rather take the car to my regular mechanic but I'm not sure it will make it all the way home"
GUY IN GREASY OVERALLS, CIGARETTE IN MOUTH: "Whats it doin'?"
YOU: "It keeps trying to exit the expressway when I go by the red light district".
GIGOCIM: "Uh huh. When'd that start?"
YOU: "Not sure...I noticed after I stopped at the Starbucks this morning."
GIGOCIM: "The one by the college campus?"
YOU: "yeah but whats that got to do with..."
GIGOCIM: "Ya got one of them there viruses...don't you know you gotta put a firewall on theses cars?. I can clean it up and patch the IP stack for you by 5:00...only cost ya 784.95"
[thud]
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Awesome, regardless of the actual features of something like this, just the fact that they're using IPv6 helps to push it towards the beginnings of acceptance.
We're a long way from critical mass, but it's a nice step forward.
Such a network could be used to implement congestion pricing, where a device in your car automatically charges your debit card a toll when you drive on a particular roadway at a certain time of the day. Congestion tolling eliminates congestion from over-use completely and leads to more efficient planning, whereas the current solution of "build more roads" (USDOT(TM)) just leads to more congestion. You might particularly be interested in this table from my thesis on how vehicular ad-hoc networking might play out over the next few decades.
Robert Morris et al took a look at establishing ad hoc networks in cars a few years ago: http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~rtm/papers/carnet00-a bstract.html
The cops aren't going to go chasing after someone who goes 5MPH over the limit. I've seen several drivers whom I'd like to report as being a major danger to themselves (and passengers) but mostly to other trafficants.
Call the cops on the cell phone? Plain old outlawed unless you have a handsfree set. Even then I wouldn't go through "please hold" (no, you don't get 911 response times on calling to report a traffic violation).
Give me an easy tool, and I'll do it, no problems. This would be used for *exceptions*. They usually catch a lot of people just by setting up a control point, it's not like they need this intel to catch averages.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Now, is that because you thought of it on the spot, or because you didn't preview your comment before you posted it?
The fact is, most people speed regardless of context. You may find elaborate ways to rationalize it, say when I call you on it in a post on Slashdot... most people speed first and ask questions later. They also do stupid things like failing to signal, and causing other problems because most humans are not cut out to make decisions in a large-scale, co-operative approach. When you're working on a big software or engineering project, is everyone given equal power over which way the project goes?
Taking people out of the driving equation will make road safety a reality more so than anything else. If you want SiR, go to the race track.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Gives new meaning to the phrase "war driving"
~>drive --offcliff 192.168.0.143
If you mod me down, I shall become less powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Now we can take advantage of stopped traffic on congested freeways to watch movies over BitCarrent, or take out the roadrage in a bit of HalfLife. Finally I can frag that granny hogging the passing lane with her blinking turn signal!
--
make install -not war
The American Trial-Lawyers Association, foreseeing windfall profits off this technology pre-ordered 50,000 units for distribution to their members. Now the trial-lawyers have a tool to make it to the scene of an accident before the ambulances or Kerry/Edwards' lawfirm does.
So if you can't call them "ambulance chasers" anymore, what would you call them?
And the cops could send data saying no police in sight ahead.. speed up! I wonder how that'd legally hold up.
Cars could get around crashes, congestions and the likes, the best being prevention of pileups especially in winter. Cars can detect if the wheels arent moving in unison if theres a slip, and in milliseconds this can be used to slam on the brakes of cars behind.
But sooner or later the govt will enter the race and people will get tickets mailed at home with GPS coordinates and seconds since epoch where they exceeded the speed limit by 0.1 kmph.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
How do I hack the car-to-car network to install Seti@Home on all the cars that I pass while driving?
I seldom speed under normal circumstances. I drive a pickup truck, and the trade-off in reduced gas mileage isn't worth the few minutes I would save on my very short commute.
I do speed if passing a slower car on one of the many two-lane highways around here, at least until I'm past them. I do speed when the bulk of traffic is speeding as well, so as not to be an obstruction. So yes, on occasion, I speed. Not often. But I do. If I wanted to make a habit of it, I sure wouldn't drive a pickup truck.
Your diatribe is the perfect example of why I'm wary of possible misuses of this system. Now, if you're willing to accuse and insult me with no knowledge of the context or reason I was speeding, why should I expect anything different from anyone else viewing the data?
We need to be cautious any time we remove human judgement from the equation. Pre-ordained rules cannot possibly account for all situations. Nor can they decipher intent, need, or motive.
As long as the system does not include any information that identifies the car or its owner (neither of which is necesarry for the described functionality of passing along road safety information), then this isnt a possibility.
It seems to me that this is a far simpler and more reliable way of getting the info out than through a long chain of Wifi networking from car to car.
Just like the internet, car-to-car networking will soon get swamped with all kinds of crap and the true value services will get starved of bandwidth.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Not only spam and porn, but P2P music as well.
This reminds me of the latest Cory Doctorow, Eastern Standard Tribe, where someone came up with the idea of P2P music sharing from car to car.
There would always be a server car or two cruising through the tunnels, sharing files with other cars. Then any car could listen to any music they chose, and could delete it all off their car before they got to any police checkpoint.
At least that's how I recall it
I've never bought the idea that someday our cars are going to turn us in for speeding. If whoever is going to go to the trouble to monitor our speed and the speed limit for wherever we are, why not just have the car keep itself within the limit?
Just get tires with a larger radius.
Play Command HQ online
One issue that hasn't been touched on yet would be the ability simply to communicate with other vehicles around. Studies show that the major cause of Road Rage is that lack of ability to communicate when both parties are driving. I look forward to the day when I can press a button and talk directly to the driver of another car nearby. It probably wouldn't solve too many accidents, but it would make driving so much nicer. eg. If you don't see someone in your blind spot, cut in on them, you can then tell someone you're sorry. Leaves them thinking that it was a genuine mistake rather than getting angry about you being a wanker. The other day I was at an intersection and someone was trying to give way to me, even though he had right of way. To make things worse, I had a cop on my arse, so I wasn't about to break the law just because he wanted me to. Would have been cool if I could actually talk to him and say "No, doofus. You've got right of way here, move it." I can think of many more cool uses for communicating with other drivers too. (More communicating than a single finger allows for, anyway)
Call Forum Joe, That's my name, That name again is Forum Joe.
yey! I've wanted this for a while in order to create connections to the cars around me and tell them (using VoIP) to get out of the way/stop tailgaiting! At least, that's all it'd be used for if it did get VoIP running on it, maybe a standard hack for the first versions :)
I blogged this idea last year (and, yes, I know it wasn't a wholly original idea then, either--some guys had driven around with laptops already)
My idea then was for having cars talk to each other about traffic: "As a car approaches a pack of other cars, it connects to their network. The pack of cars can tell the new car the average speed and size of the network (and if there's GPS information, maybe even the beginning and end of the pack), which the driver--maybe with the help of some mapping software--can use to determine whether to stay in the pack or get off at the next available opportunity."
iTunes and all other stuff we already do with networks are implicit, but I thought it would be interesting to see what new ideas could come from this kind of network
I've never bought the idea that someday our cars are going to turn us in for speeding.
They're already harvesting EZPass data for speeding tickets...
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
So what you're saying is, you're unable to effectively communicate this without having several followup postings.
.." (hey, it happens to everyone on message boards), you instead insult me. That's rude, and I don't appreciate it. Obviously you're smart enough to understand netiquette and such, which means you're also smart enough to post a reply which isn't rude.
Why did you need to post 2 followups to explain context, when you could've written a more concise post originally?
In fact, why was your original post so much more "off the cuff" and poorly written compared to your posts?
Of your original post, only this section implies your intent/motive/need point: "How long until they combine this with the upcoming black box recorders in cars so my car can politely inform the officer that while I'm not speeding right now, I was going 15 over three miles back?"
And it's not strongly implied, nor is it worded in a way to suggest you think about context. Instead, followed with the "Drat! My car is gonna look really ugly covered in tinfoil." it implies you are wanting to avoid possible punishment for avoiding rules.
My original response is totally valid, considering the many points of ambiguity you left in the context of the original post. I find your comments about diabtribes and fucktard comments rather insulting and flippant considering the validity of my comment. If you actually look at the other replies, you'll they also interpret what you wrote the same way I did.
Rather than saying, "oops, I meant to say
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
roadcasting.org is an OSS project revolved around using these networks for next gen radio. Worth checking out.
is for a way to communicate with the vehicle in front of me. Is that so much to ask? If people could actually talk to the person in front of them, there'd be a lot less high beaming, horn honking, etc.
"Would you mind getting over please? There are about 20 cars behind you and you've been driving the same speed as the car next to you for the past 5 miles."
Of course when they reply with, "I know! HAHAHAHAHA," that should be free license to shoot out their tires and/or eyes.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
But that's not really the car reporting itself is it? Doesn't that still involve some sort of external radar device measuring your speed and then turning you in, sort of like a camera catching the license plate numbers of people who run red lights? That sort of enforcement is different than what I meant. I'm saying I can't see, or rather I feel there is a better alternative, to having a car read its own speedometer and comparing it to the speed limit of the road it's on and then reporting its driver for speeding.
I find this one quite interesting, because I'm wondering what might happen if everyone's trying to calculate the fastest route at the same time. I realise that it's very network related. Does the research exist to allow this type of calculation to work reliably?
Apart from having done some courses as part of my degree, I'm not an expert on networks or AI, but one of the problems that comes to mind is that drivers are nearly always going to be greedy, aren't they? Especially when they're not close enough to see or talk to each other, as is the case when planning a route.
To my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), a lot of networking algorithms rely on protocols that involve one side stepping back through some randomized negotiation and letting the other use a resource first. Because this typically happens in the time frame of a fraction of a second, it doesn't usually affect human users to the point where they get annoyed.
But in traffic, anyone who's looking for the fastest route is likely to want to get there without having to step aside and let others use the roads for half an hour first. (Not counting the standard road rules, at least.) People will want the best situation every time, and everyone could quite easily lose by default through some variant of the prisoner's dilemma.
Do we actually have the knowledge in place to make fastest-route algrithms work successfully, if everyone's using them at the same time? Is it even possible?
i dont want you having any say in wether or not i can drive. why do you think you know what is best for me ?
i am perfectly aware of the risks involved in driving on a shoulder. i evaluated the situation and chose to do so anyway.
If you'd prefer that nobody in the US is allowed to think or have independant decision making ability, just say so.
I don't see how you can justify "anyone that thinks they can do something like this just shouldn't be on the road". Why don't you express outrage about people that don't signal, or who poke along in the overtaking lane?
I'd rather make an informed decision to, in an exceptional case, violate a written law, than to habitually violate serveral out of ignorance, sloth, or contempt for others.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
To give you the fullest ammount of props for that.
That is a perfectly concieved comic scene.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
.."Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon (full of tapes) hurtling down the highway"
Sorry, posted to wrong forum.
...my guess is that messages (crash info, bad weather, congestion) will quickly move down the highway... and the cop car in the middle will get the extra hidden bits, as in license plate + speed for every car around them.
No thanks.
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
But that's not really the car reporting itself is it? Doesn't that still involve some sort of external radar device measuring your speed and then turning you in, sort of like a camera catching the license plate numbers of people who run red lights?
No, not at all. EZPass is a transponder on your car to pay tolls. You drive through a toll booth at 5MPH and EZPass tells the toll both "I'm car 12345". They bill the credit card on account # 12345 for the toll.
When you drive on at Exit 123 and get off at Exit 163 thirty two minutes later, you get a speeding ticket for going 75MPH.
So, no, the car isn't explicity broadcasting "I went 81MPH" but it gives the system all the information it needs to figure that out with a 1 line algorithm - i.e. 'same thing'.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
IPv6 is an obvious choice for a protocol, because it supports autoconfiguration based on a network number (which could be standardized for this application) and a MAC address (your wireless card's), so IP applications can work. There's still the problem of protecting privacy, since you don't want to be broadcasting ARPs as you drive by every detector on the street - in reality, the Home Office and Homeland Security and KGB and Stasi and Local ticket-revenue-generating cops will all want it, so it'll probably happen if this sort of thing gets deployed, but people should start thinking about what kinds of protocols can do the useful work while still protecting privacy. Downloadable MACs and randomly settable IP addresses, or something like them, are definitely needed, and setting up the car to answer broadcasts for its address as opposed to always advertising it is pretty much required. But what else do you need? What requirements are legitimate, or interesting? How do you prevent spamming (e.g. drive-by ads)?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
If everyone has a defined current location and endpoint, as soon as its route is calculated, it can report its route to "the swarm" and it can be registered with the others who will then take it into account when calculating their routes.
All you have to do is think ahead a little.
There will, however, always be those who don't report their route (or aren't equipped to do so.) This can be filled in with general logistical data based on time of day, week, holiday, etc.
"It's a very tangled subsystem." --Windows kernel guru